Welcome to Civic Education Class.
Courtesy – Wes Mountain of This is Australia. Today.
My roundup for Global Voices of reactions to Cory Bernardi’s extraordinary man bites dog/dogs bite back moment may be of interest:
It was bound to be a bad time for Australian Senator Cory Bernardi after he suggested in a parliamentary debate on legalizing same sex marriage that it could lead to marriage between humans and animals.
…It is a story that’s likely to dog his political career for some time to come.
On the issue of same sex marriage itself, we might have lost the vote but we certainly won the argument.
Café Whispers 
On the issue of same sex marriage itself, we might have lost the vote but we certainly won the argument
How? Or who are you talking about?
TB QLD
We the people. Or maybe just the ‘we’ part of ‘them and us’.
One of the most telling Bill’s in Australia’s history … if nothing else it proves that we DO NOT have a representative government …
It’s as disgusting (probaly more so) than the loss of the Republic Referendum … a farce set up by John Howard & Co … this was a farce supported by Julia Gillard & Co …
Why bother “following” poll trends when the majority of Australians were accepting of gay marriage … and two thirds of Parliament voted against it … are we so controlled by Christian religion in this country … (or our government) … if that’s the case why does the Prime Minister live in sin … hypocrisy writ large!
A pox on all their parties … and affiliations … am I the only person here that feels disenfranchised by our politicians?
What’s the point in voting … what’s the point is supporting them on blogs … if they don’t give a $#1t about what we think anyway … democracy my arse … nothing really changes …
We the people
How did we win the argument, Kevin? By losing the vote??? You’ve lost me …
TB, how many times in history have we the people lost the vote but in the end we the people have prevailed.
When it comes to the issue of marriage equality, justice will prevail..and that is a certainty.
Reblogged this on AZIAZONE.
TB, we do not always get everything we want. In this it will come. I feel it will not be long into the future.
While this is so, one cannot get away from the fact that same sex marriages now exist. Admittedly at this time, it is defacto marriage. The government treats people in these relationships as married. Incomes of both are taken into account for benefits, and I believe everything else.
Same gender couples are having their own community services.
While the government treats them as married couples, they cannot deny them the right to marry indefinitely.
Abbott will not be around that long. Others will be more willing to at least allow a conscience vote.
I believe it will come before the next elections.
Do not forget, we have come a long way. Wran was the last to decriminalise not that many decades ago,
This Labor government has done much to speed up the process. Obviously not as much as many would like, but it is now only one step away.
Cu, and
Wise lady. Marriage for gay couples is almost there in so many ways..they are now for example recognised as de facto…so near, yet so far. I hope and pray that it will come soon and so give recognition to those who love and want recognition, so as to be publicly acknowledged.
Yes Min, if they live together, they are treated as a married couple,
Does not make sense.
We need to remind ourselves that it was the gay community that demand the laws be changed, Why, one would never know.
I think the vote was six last time. It is now2 up to forty odd, with a couple of votes not present. It would be interesting to know how many Liberals were in the toilets.
Enjoying the football.
You cannot leave out the fact the Coalition were not allowed a conscience vote and had to vote along party lines. Taking into account those who openly stated they would vote for the bill if given the free choice and the maybes then the vote would have been much closer to being carried with one commentator saying it would have reflected the community.
52% of Coalition voters believe that same sex marriage should be allowed yet 0% of their party voted for it. If there’s any Party that is unrepresentative of the community then it’s the Coalition.
Cu, probably it’s the principle of the thing. Opposite gender couples have the right to choose, same sex couples do not. Imagine it. You are in a de facto relationship, but the law says that due to your gender/color/religion that you are not permitted to marry.
A while ago we did away with the law which stated that people of different races could not marry – we did away with the law which stated that people of differing religions could not marry – next we should do away with the law which states that people of the *wrong* gender cannot marry.
Mobius @9.36pm..point very much taken..
Will gay marriage
-create jobs
-reduce Gov debt (even though none of you know how much it is)
-improve education and health
-provide better public housing
-improve tourism
-improve National security
-increase migrant numbers
-effect inflation
-impact interest rates
-improve ALP or Liberals chance of winning next Election
-enhance Australias International standing
-cut green house emissions
-improve Environment
-protect endangered species
-change the value of the A$
Dont worry too much about Cory – there are lots more elected ratbags
in Canberra waiting to emerge.Some may even know our total National Debt.
Voyager, well actually gay marriage is mooted to improve tourism..hence the reason that the Tasmanian and ACT governments were pushing for it, on purely economic grounds. The gay community has the highest income of any demographic and the highest rate of disposable income.
$70B?
There seems to me to be no sane or rational reason to oppose same sex marriage and it is time to move forward from the Fred Nile attitudes of the past. This equality will only benefit society as a whole and I am pretty darned sure that those who oppose it will one day look back in time and wonder what all the fuss was about.
Will heterosexual marriage:
-create jobs
-reduce Gov debt (even though none of you know how much it is)
-improve education and health
-provide better public housing
-improve tourism
-improve National security
-increase migrant numbers
-effect inflation
-impact interest rates
-improve ALP or Liberals chance of winning next Election
-enhance Australias International standing
-cut green house emissions
-improve Environment
-protect endangered species
-change the value of the A$
Let’s ban it then.
Stupidest argument against gay marriage outside of the slippery slope one I’ve ever heard. Aren’t the wingnuts pissed off at the moment. They are becoming less rational by the post.
Hey Min- one reason out of my list of 15 .
Im not opposed to Gay Marriage just see lots more important things on my list to do when everyone accross the country is doing it so tough.
Hey Miglo- hope you dont work for Treasury.It sure is not $70 B because the recognized figure is:
Aus Gov Debt is $235 B ( B stands for big ones) with a self imposed
‘overdraft limit’ set currently at $250 B. This increases by $100 M per day.
Now go to bed and sleep on that one. Makes me worry.
So can you see why none of the Feds get too excited about Gay Marriage?
And I have more to worry about than our deficit.
To Mobius
why dont you use my list or your own if you prefer .
Indicate your order of priorities in the national Interest.
Where does Gay Marriage come on your list.
Once again can but state Im not opposed but presently much more important
issues and I guess thats how Jullia Gillard sees it.
You can probably get Married and get a flash Wedding Certificate on the net!
I believe it will create jobs, in the catering industry for starters. The wedding industry is big in this country. Might attract tourism, as these couples do have money.
Does marriage between a man and woman do as you have asked.
Will it make a lot of people happier, I believe it may. Will it bring down the suicide rate, yes I believe it will.
Will it make the economy worse. No it will not.
Will the world as we know it end., No.
Will it make my grandson happier. I do not know, as I did not ask him. Him and his partner appear happy now. Yes, he will add to help. He is in the last year of his nursing degree. I beautiful, kind and caring young man, that any granny would be proud of.
What has your list got to do with gay marriage. Nothing I suggest. Just another diversion that has failed.
It will not undermine marriage between men and woman either.
Might be more work for solicitors and the courts, as I am sure some will fail, as they do now..
How will it affect you. Be surprised if it did. If you are a cook or bar tender. , you might get morel work.
The problem with the national debt, it will not do all the things you have listed as well. If it worries you so, go and find out. If you know, tell us, and al;so prove why it is so bad,
One expert outside the Liberal party will do.
I am sure that gay people work in all the fields you mention. I am sure they have the same concerns that you do,
They are not from out of space. They live life as you do, They are normal people, who want the choice to do what other normal people do.
The Cory’s of this world, in this country are small minorities, thankfully. Minorities that make a lot of noise, but amount to little.
Hey Voyager, tell me, why would gay marriage be any different to hetero marriage? Go for it, I cannot wait but to quote the Marriage Act (Cth) 1961 or perhaps the Family Law Act (Cth) 1975.
What has the national debt got to do with this post.
Cu..lost me too…
Funny, that figure still does not worry me. While we continue to get those AAA ratings from the three main agencies, and today I believe a big tick from the world bank, I feel we are travelling OK.
The only concern seems to be, and the world bank says this, is we hurry back to a surplus to quickly, as they see no need to.
Only a fool would attempt to wipe out a debt, which is of no concern, wrecking the economy in the process.
The eastern states are heading down this path. Demolishing, not building, leads to disaster.
The one thing we have going for us, is that reserve bank has room to move, in being able to bring interest rates down more, to take up the slack, caused by insisting on that surplus.
Still this has nothing to do with gay or as I woulld rather say, same gender marriage.
“when everyone accross the country is doing it so tough”
What utter BS, I am so sick and tired of that statement.
At budget time we were told that families earning $150,000plus would “suffer” because they would lose some of their government handouts. Geeez
Or people earning over $120, 000 would leave private health insurance if subsidies were cut. Yet membership has grown
So how about a clarification, some across the country are doing it tough. Like the 14000 public servants sacked in Qld.
“Aren’t the wingnuts pissed off at the moment. They are becoming less rational by the post.”
Yes ME – from Voyager’s incoherent ramblings, you would gather that government is a unary concept – only capable of one thing at a time – not consisting of many ministers, supported by their departments.
This one is a meme often raised by the limited-thinking conservatives. We shouldn’t be considering X because Y is more important. HELLO – we’re smarter than that. We can consider X and Y at the same time 🙄
As far as “our total National Debt” goes, if you’re going to ask the question, you need to specify what you really mean (if you actually understand the question). We have Federal government debt, total government debt (including state and local government), company debt, household debt – WTF are you ranting about?
Voyager,… if two people (no matter what gender) live together.. or two people (woteva gender) get married…. could you please explain how ‘exactly’ that is going to effect/affect the way you live.. 😕 ….. and could you please explain your moral and ethical deficit(s) ….. ‘you’ do what ‘you’ do… others ‘do’ what they ‘do’…. tell me why one view is more important than the other ( no,xtian puke please)..
……my own personal view is that you are *nuts* if you want to get married…. (said the divorcee, single Dad) 😀
lol LOVO – effect is a noun, affect is a verb 😉 Confuses the f$%k out of me too 🙂
LOVO, I agree with you on marriage, a place I feel I will never go again.
LOVO that is a choice we can make. I think that might be the point of same sex marriage.
What harm will it do. None. Might even add to the economy.
Oh I do wish people like Voyager would take a long trip. I hear Siberia is nice this time of the year.
… and while he’s there he might want to give us an up-date on how the summer melt season went …
http://www.planetextinction.com/planet_extinction_permafrost.htm
How many here are familiar with the essence of many magic acts being based upon “misdirection” where the magician distracts the attention of the audience away from what they are really doing to conceal the trick or slight of hand? Its misdirection that has been in play politically with this issue. I will even offer a nod of respect for the way that Gillard has played this issue to her advantage buy agreeing to let the Greens and other fag hags run with this issue whole tribes from the far left have expended a great deal of energy and enthusiasm in pursuit of something that was never going to eventuate. All the while Gillard has been able to keep her performance on other more pressing issues off the agenda or at least out of the steely gaze of the political classes. But now that the bills that have been so soundly defeated in the parliament are history and two others in the grist mill will face the same fate maybe we can move on to issues that really matter.
As for homosexual couples well they can still make enduring or fleeting pair bonds with any consenting adult of their choice and they have no disadvantage thanks to the way that the Rudd government reformed the treatment of same sex couples in law ( and good on him for that). As I see it this has never really been about “same sex marriage” rather its been about getting public acceptance and affirmation of homosexuality and I don’t think that would have been achieved by changing the marriage act.
Exactly Bacchus.
First Voyager showed he was an ignoramus on the economy and now on the workings of government itself.
This government has passed nearly 400 pieces of legislation, which is far more than Howard who had a clear majority ever did in the same period. Many of those pieces were passed at the same time or within a very short time of each other, and a good deal were far more complex than gay marriage.
Government is made up of departments each with minister or ministers, heads, deputies and staff working believe it or not at the same time. One section or part of government doesn’t stop because another section, department or part is engaged in a policy.
Government multi-tasks and has always done so. In the scheme of things bringing in a gay marriage policy and approving it is very small bickies in government resources and would barely be a hiccup on total government, with parts of Finance and Social Services needing to make relatively small amendments to the existing marriage provisions in their ordinances.
I don’t need to prioritise anything in this, it’s others who need to find out how government works along with how it manages the economy.
Voyager seems obsessed with a Big Number.
Fretting over the size of the national debt makes as much sense as worrying about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
In terms of this country’s economic well-being, it is utterly irrelevant. In my opinion it should in fact be higher.
Everything written over the last 24 hours on “The Perfect Storm” thread seems to have gone right over your head.
Well, of course, if that “genius” Costello hadn’t have sold off our gold reserve when gold prices were at historically record lows, then the current government could have quickly brought that debt number down, given the very high gold prices at present!
Well Hockey has said, there is nothing left to sell.
Well if Labor stays in long enough, there will be. Labor builds. Opposition demolishes.
This is a mirror to the face of the Liberal Coalition. An insight into the type of attitudes that are at odds with the will of the people who elect this unevolved neanderthal. I agree TV QLD act very revealing Bill indeed.
We should offer both Voyager and Curry thanks. They have once again allowed us to cover debt and how successful this government has been in managing the economy in full.
We do not appear to have attracted any dissent from other readers. There are a few out there I believe.
No support for Voyager or Curry either.
Abbott in Brisbane. Turn back the boats. Defending the Premiers. Bullshit
Yes, Mr. Abbott we are not mugs.
Getting questions once again. Will not talk about Cory. Will not even say if he pushed Cory.
Confident he ended the week stronger than he started it.
DOES APPEAR UNCOMFORTABLE BEING ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS.
Three word sentences, once again, repeated over and over.’
Now being asked about schools. More spin. Bare faced lie.
Once again, that is a matter for senator Bernardi.
Anther waste of the reporters time.
We are now into motherhood statements, talking about all the things the Howard government promised and failed to do.
Labor waste……..
Migrants. More slogans,
When did politics become a 24/7 job. I am sure we would all benefit if they took some time off to do some quiet thinking and having some rest.
There is always someone – Jon Kudelka http://www.kudelka.com.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/me120922.jpg
Just read Iain’s little rant and cannot figure what he is on about.
” other fag hags “
lovely language. Min, would not worry about it ending up in spam. It is only doing it’s job. Says more about the writer than women politicians.
It should have been taken from spam to trash where it belongs.
Paul, I can. It is about being as nasty as one can, because no one is taking anymore notice on this site.
Nasty is not the word for it, I could call it something else but do not want to get banned.
paulwello @ 1:00 pm
Its a very simple concept Paul, that The Labor party have been very happy to see this issue getting a run even though they knew it would not get up because it distracted a lot of people from considering the details of the government’s performance. Why do you have trouble with that?
Catching up @ 1:30 pm
” other fag hags ”
Do you know what a “fag hag” is CU?
😆
Isn’t amazing how keen to silence dissenting voices you minions of the left are.
Catching up @ 1:32 pm
I’m not being “nasty” at all CU. I am making a simple observation about the place of the so called “gay marriage ” issue in the larger political landscape. Heck I even offered some Praise to Gillard and Rudd for the way that they have played the game here , don’t I get Brownie points for that?
Sounds a little familiar.
Yes, there are many problems ahead, but not the ones we hear from the likes of Curry and Dutton.
The biggest one is plugging that hole that Costello and Howard created.
Yes, taxation will have to be looked at closely. It is time for the stupidity of tax cuts, and cutting of the PS be put aside. Investigation of what is really needed is required.
That is great Curry. You have opinions that are based on no input. No facts either I am afraid.
Now it would be nice if you went away, done some reading and come back with opinions that are based on some information that is outside your head.
How about posting those stats. Please ensure that they have some information, that tells us what they are. We all like to check sources.
I have pinched this comment from another site, as I could not say it better.
I have now come to the conclusion that the reason Iain wants to come and play in our sandpit is because his own is so full of shit that even he can’t stand to be in it for too long.
Oh Patricia Ryan that is amusing, The reason that I come here is for the fun of debate and a personal belief that it is better to engage with our political opposites than to just seek out the like minded for a mutual bitch session about the other side of politics.
Patricia Ryan….You are so spot on, A serial propaganda troll with no interest in debate due to an incapacity of the ability to accept the word “wrong” . ” A fact deficient opinion based simplex communicator” at best. Paul Wello….That is sadly an attempt to be cleaver. A disrespectful, nasty, bigoted, xenophobic, homophobe, cocooned in the resentment of never achieving anything of note.
Yes I agree Iain is A disrespectful, nasty, bigoted, xenophobic, homophobe, cocooned in the resentment of never achieving anything of note.
Iain ???? 😕 ..Who’s Iain ??? *scroll*
Lovo
do you also suffer from “scroll ercise” ?
Ricky Pann @ 11:26 am
Of course I accept the word “wrong” Ricky and I appreciate the many examples of wrong that you produce. How , pray tell am I wrong in suggesting that the whole Gay marriage push has been a distraction from more pressing issues? And How am I wrong to suggest that Gillard has actually played this issue well to her advantage>
Only those dripping in hubris are focused upon achieving “something of note” We humble folk are just happy to live a good and righteous life.
paulwello @ 12:24 pm
I only disrespect those who have not earned my respect Paul, as for your other insults well I’ve had worse.
Yep LOVO… you got it….I’m gonna design a T shirt…. “Cyberspace is a better place if you Scroll a Troll”…
Visitor, yoiu are the last person I would want respect from. If you did, I would have to take a close look at msyeslf to see where I went wrong.
As for us always agreeing, if you reads the comments instead of cherry picking a word here and there,l you would see that there is debate going on.
Yes, we all appear to be in agreement when it comes to Abbott. It is hard not to be.
All comments here are backed by data and facts. Very few are opinions, or wild assumptions and generalistions.