Budget for Abbott’s Australia


The Abbott government has been working incessantly to work up to the Mother of All Scare Campaigns.  There is an emergency!  There is a crisis!  About what, the government has been careful to avoid backing up with anything factual.  Economists both left and right leaning have said not one single word in support.  We do know that there is debt, writ large with a capital D and that somehow pensioners and disabled people are the cause of it. . . or at least both Hockey and Abbott sticking to their chosen theme would have us believe so.

This brought to mind one of John Howard’s favourite techniques, this being to prime up his audience usually via the media so as to create ‘a situation’.  Newspapers, shock jocks et al would dutifully comply running numerous *shocking stories* complete with photos taken by willing neighbors/rellies and other assorted accomplices of, for example:  long haired ‘louts’ who refused thousand-dollar-a-week jobs on sublime tropical islands due to the fact that they preferred to loll about on the dole in some mall in an unnamed western suburb, or a ‘pretend’ disabled person caught by his worthy neighbor *gasp* on his roof.  Clearly people with disabilities cannot be disabled if they can find themselves on a roof.

And it worked very well.  Following a few weeks of such stories, which by some miracle would appear simultaneously in all major newspapers; to the rescue – our fearless then PM, little Johnny promising to ‘come down hard on’ such rorters.  A thankful public sighed with relief that we had such an alert PM who knew how to ‘take action’.

John Howard, did however accomplish this with at least a modest amount of subtlety, a trait which Tony Abbott and his team are the antithesis of.

Tony Abbott in an attempt to emulate his hero Howard makes a mockery of all things Liberal.  The ham-fistedness and inept handling of this government’s attempt to reshape Australia in a regression to some unknown ultra-conservative stance way beyond anything which Howard would even contemplate, nor want, is an embarrassment to all.

Abbott therefore commits falsehoods, but one must consider that he does either with such ego that ‘it doesn’t count’, or with an ignorance which cannot be excused away as ‘new to the office of Prime Minister’.

May 18, 2010:

TONY ABBOTT has told voters not to believe everything he says.

In an extraordinary admission last night, the Opposition Leader said his only utterances that should be regarded as ”gospel truth” were carefully prepared and scripted remarks such as those made during speeches or policy pronouncements.

However, it would seem that we are not to believe even the carefully prepared and scripted ones.

To date the government has encouraged speculation on (and the list is not exhaustive), that the family home of pensioners will be sold from under them if they expect to collect the pension; that pensioners are a drain on the economy and society, (while completely ignoring the contribution that people in their 70’s, 80’s and beyond have made to Australian society); that pensioners and people with disabilities should be ‘encouraged’ back into the workforce (which jobs and how? remains an unknown); that ‘everyone’ will have to pay $6.00 to visit the doctors (while dismantling the super clinics).

And now comes the penultimate of lies, that the Deficit Levy is not a tax.  That is, families on $80,000 will be losing out by $800.00pa, more than the average of one month’s mortgage payment while at the same time giving millionaire mummies a ‘gift’ of $75,000 for 6 months of bonding time with bubs.  Is something not quite jelling here?

John Howard knew not to frighten the horses.  The Tony Abbott/Credlin duo do not have that sort of finesse, intelligence nor acumen.


543 comments on “Budget for Abbott’s Australia

  1. Carol, I love it. Wherever one goes at the moment, they are happy to talk politics. Yes, and not very complementary when Abbotts name is raised. Having special fund on the Central Coast. Yes, the ICAC is loosening tongues.

    The coast is small enough, that many know these people well.

  2. I believe Abbott has run up against a brick wall. All that waste has long gone. He has no low or even high fruit pick.

    They believed their own spin.

    I also believe from now on it is all down hill. We are to have the G20, with no mention of carbon emissions. We have other climate change bodies meeting.

    Abbott is going to the USA and Canada in June. Will get a warm welcome in Canada.

    Manus and Naura are falling apart. Heard Abbott say today, he has stopped the boats, but added”for now” That is a newy.

    What is the baby bonus and low income bonus that he proudly said today, he has repealed. Could he mean the school; kid bonus.

  3. Bacchus, it must be hard for them to find anything positive at this them. One should feel sorry for them.

    I was impressed with Shorten, the last couple of days, Then Abbott makes it easy for him to look good.

  4. I wonder what Lib falls tomorrow at ICAC. Will be more interesting when they move further down the coast, Manly way.

  5. When news.com starts running stories such as below..then we know that Tones is in trouble..

    Mr Abbott has demanded the end of carbon pricing and in a speech last night said it was costing the average household $550 a year. He did not mention the compensation which came with the program.

    A levy on wage earners would cost someone on $80,000 a year about $800.

    It doesn’t quite add up, does it…therefore no wonder that..

    Tony Abbott’s controversial levy-not-a-tax is unlikely to survive in the May 13 Budget after conservative forces who usually back the Prime Minister today lined up to condemn it.

    What happens when a budget flounders?


  6. “while at the same time giving millionaire mummies a ‘gift’ of $75,000 for 6 months of bonding time with bubs.”

    Shame how you haven’t mentioned Leigh Sales receiving $110,000 to bond with her baby. Or Foreign Affairs operatives who receive over $300,000 to have their babies offshore. I always wonder at your hypocrisy.

  7. She did not talk about childcare, as child minding. She talked about ones baby being in learning situation., She was at Abbott’s speech the other might. The whole table of women where not impressed that Abbott’s speech mentioned nothing about women, including the PPL.

    She is attending the inquiry into childcare tomorrow. I wonder f it is broadcasted.

  8. Equal pay exists in Parliament extend that to all. That is priority one!
    The second Priority is spend the PPL on advancing affordable child minding.
    If you want women to participate in the workforce, that is what we should do.
    the PPL is somewhere further down the list
    But we must face the fact that Abbott is reacting to the charge that he is a Misogynist, and he has shown his incompetence by choosing the hamfisted response that he had not thought through.

  9. It’s disgusting that we get a new “levy” because Abbott does not know how to implement any effective policies. Why should we suffet because of his inability to lead the nation. PS. I wish my mortgage was only $800 a month!

  10. Paid parental leave should be a workplace entitlement, NOT government provided largess. There is a case for government to provide a minimum wage stop gap welfare PPL scheme, anything else is between employer and employee…

  11. Abbott’s “temporary” Deceit Tax is no more than a bandaid. It won’t address the structural deficit put in place by Howard and Costello all those years ago.

    Still, it’s wonderful to watch them squirm and eat each other alive over the act of hypocrisy of proposing a Great Big New Tax.

  12. Paid parental leave should be a workplace entitlement, NOT government provided largess

    Private Health Insurance should be privately funded
    Private Schooling should be privately funded.
    Compulsory Superannuation should be up at 15% by now.

    Quite a few things should have been done (or not done).

    Making pensioners pay for the liberals largess to private health insurers is ridiculous
    Making pensioners pay for the liberals largesse to private schools is ridiculous
    Making pensioners pay for the libs being too economically illiterate to maintain the compulsory superannuation is ridiculous.

    The media ignoring all of this and playing along with the liberals scare campaign is entirely predictable. I’m just surprised they baulked at the deceit tax. Time will tell why I think.

  13. Bacchus, Abbott’s PPL scheme is funded by the largest businesses, rather than the ordinary taxpayer who currently funds the generous ABC and public service schemes.

  14. Oh Carol. Of course it’s not the pensioners fault, it’s the frgging incompetent ALP’s fault that there’s this huge deficit. The sooner the idiots who continue to excuse the most gross lunacy of the ALP accept this, the better off this country will be.

  15. What a interesting AM this morning on ABC local.

    A Economist from the University of Sydney business school says Abbott is wrong when he says there is an budget emergency. In fact the opposite is true. We have had years of group. No great debt. Yes, and Labour productivity has been growing, while Labour’s share of this productivity is decreasing. Yes, there is a bigger share going to profits, of business. Yes, the worker is not to blame. He went onto say that th economy is slowing, mainly due to events in China. Any cuts back made now, will see the economy fall in a heap. He condemned the PLL. By the way, Abbott has lowered this to women who earn less that $100.00. Yes, the budget crisis is a myth. Not if that is a surprise to many. This interview can be found on the AM site.

    Heard one woman say this morning, Abbott is having his debt tax, because he has not the guts to attack the real issues, tat effect his supporters. Abbott is now suggesting they just raised the tax rate for people over $80.000. It appears Abbott believes this is not creating a new tax, just raising the existing one. Therefor no promise broken. Some might buy it. Cannot see who. Read another comment, where it was pointed out, all the cuts made to lower income earners and pensioners are permanent. The deficit levy is temporary. So much for all doing the heavy lifting.

    Then we have the fund raiser for both Baird and Abbott facing the ACAC today. Yes, getting nearer to home. Has moved down the coast to Warringah.

    We have the news that Kathy Jackson ran a slush fund in the HSU from 2002 to 2010. Has been referred to both police and RC. Kathy has not denied the fund existed, but said she d9id not benefitted from iyt. It is unclear at this stage, who did benefitted from it. HSU is refusing to pay back wages, Kathy is claiming. Yes, I love Abbott’s RC. Very productive indeed. AM tried to insinuate the release of this information is because of HSU election coming up, later in the year. I believe that Fairfaxs and the Age are running the story

    Also, it is unlikely that Brandis will get up his repeal of those bills that deal with racial discrimination. Too much uproar within the party, s well as elsewhere.

    We are I seems sending refugees to Cambodia. Up to 1000 I believe., It seems that this government will pay the country whatever it takes. Cambodia will only take those, who want to go voluntary. Yes, we will impose our problems on one of the poorest countries in the region.

    Not bad for one episode of AM.

    The editor must have been cringing, to have to produce such a revealing episode of AM.

  16. John B,

    Where was Labor supposed to get the money to stimulate the economy against the GFC? Considering the Lieberals left the budget in structural deficit. Considering the shortfall of revenues the GFC caused.

  17. Abbott having PC soon. It will be followed by one with the Greesn’s Brandt. The Greens did say they would support the PPL if threshold was lowered to $10.00, Suspect he has made deal with he Greens. That will be today’s stunt.
    Milne yesterday, yesterday, seemed to be cooling on the PLL.

    Abbott in an hour or so. Shorten following after,

    Ian Ross, Sydney news reader has died.

  18. Considering the Lieberals left the budget in structural deficit

    Your parents obviously did not teach you to tell the truth.

    On the other thread I told you Treasury keeps changing that structural deficit figure. Treasury now says the budget was in structural surplus during Costello’s time. Treasury also said that the budget would be in surplus by now.

    And anyway Costello left ZERO govt debt. One of the few countries who could say that. Swan could spend away for years if he wanted to. And he did.

    Cuppa, if i needed a human being to bear false witness against another human being, i would chose you.

  19. The truth is, even under the Liberals, budgets are very rarely in surplus. This is only a recent obsession.

    I believe Howard only had three or four during his 12 years. There is no debt, that the country cannot service.

    As that economist said this morning, it about what this government wanted to do, regardless of the state of t5\he economy. it is dogma and ideology. Nothing to do with the economy.

    Why don’t the Greens just ask Abbott to make changes to the existing PPL. Makes more sense. I think the Greens main concern is the length of time the PPL runs, not so much the wealthy collecting their full wages. The wealthy are well looked after now, under workplace schemes, that are not paid for by the tax payer.

  20. The previous Lieberal government pushed up the gross debt right up to the time they left office. Stephen Koukoulas:

    …in the three months leading up to the election on November 24, 2007, the Howard government borrowed money from the capital markets on eight separate occasions (issuing government bonds) including just 11 days before polling day. At no stage under Mr Howard did gross debt fall below $47 billion, and since Federation in 1901, the Australian government has always had gross debt. Always.


  21. Thanks to the Howard middle/upper income earners rebates and other measures that he introduced, Costello left ticking time bomb. Hockey’s intentions does nothing to address the structural deficits within the budget.

    They have made it worse, by reversing the actions that Swan took.

    These issues have to be addressed, but do not amount to the budget emergency that Abbott and Hockey are attempting to stir up. What’s more, listening t comments on the radio and other places, I believe the general public is wakening up to this fact.

    Confidence in the economy has fallen through the floor in recent times. Business is now beginning to speak out.

  22. We also should take o the Grattan Institute advice, on how the super funds should be run, We pay up to three times more to administer them, that other similar countries. Yes, means up to $80,000 less on retirement of the average worker. Yes, and their solutions will cost the government or taxpayer nothing. Win win situation.

  23. Cuppa from your link

    What is true is that under the Howard government (and Whitlam government, for that matter) net government debt not only fell to zero, but the government accumulated financial assets, or had negative net debt. Under the Howard government, these financial assets peaked at 3.8 per cent of GDP, while under Whitlam, government financial assets peaked at 3.1 per cent of GDP.”

    Swan had plenty of money to spend.

    I cannot understand your dishonesty. What did your parents say about telling the truth??

  24. Neil, treasury figures are projections. They are only a fact for the day they are announced,. As the world and Australia economy changes, so do the figures. If government takes actions, the projections change.,

    If the were stable, something would be wrong. You argument does not hold water.

    Hockey has added greatly to the budget deficit since coming to power. This would and does change the projections that treasury made around the time of the election.

    Neil, do you understand what the word projection means.

  25. On the other thread I told you Treasury keeps changing that structural deficit figure.

    No you didn’t. You confused a budget deficit with a structural deficit , even when I pointed it out to you

    Bacchus, Abbott’s PPL scheme is funded by the largest businesses

    Similar to the Carbon Price. Yet, as we were always told, this would be passed on to the consumer, as would this. The difference, the consumer was subsidised by the Government. In htis, the consumer (ie taxpayer) just pays.

    I see that tabot is starting to walk away from another central plank of his election, the PPL. .

    but argued that it should be a workplace entitlement, not a welfare payment.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-to-lower-cutoff-for-paid-parental-leave-scheme-report-20140430-zr1ly.html#ixzz30JxFk5QZ

    I note that the reporter failed to ask tabot if he could highlight another “workplace entitlement” that is funded by the taxpayer?

  26. Cuppa- what about these tax cuts from Wayne Swan??


    The Government has delivered $47 billion of tax cuts in our first four years since coming to office. In addition, we have provided further tax cuts as assistance for the cost of living impact of the carbon price from 2012‑13. Even after accounting for the small increase in the Medicare levy in 2014‑15 we will be delivering total tax cuts of around $20 billion a year over the next four years compared to the 2007‑08 tax scales.”

    Swan even has a column comparing his tax cuts to Costello’s showing how much bigger the Swan tax cuts are.

  27. I would also like to see nils evidence of pensioners cashing in super in order to then receive the aged pension, as he is claiming. I think it is time to call bullshit on this.

  28. The screams from the public will intensify should Abbott’s PPL brainfart materialise. The cost of the big business levy will be passed on down the chain to be borne by consumers, who will bring out the baseball bats and start polishing them up in readiness for the next election…

  29. Howard also left record private debt. Transferring government debt to the private sector, does not get rid of the debt when it comes to essentials. Health, education and other welfare still has to be paid for. Infrastructure, both physical and human has to be built.

    Just means the average person has less in their pockets to shop, Business has to take more out of their pockets.

    Yes, Abbott has backed down on the PPL. Still not far enough for most.

  30. what about these tax cuts from Wayne Swan?

    I also mentioned that on hte other thread nil, and said that Labor should have broken the pledge they made to match howards ridiculous one to make those tax cuts in hte first place.

    It was the final and most devastating of all howards bribes, and one promise I would have been happy for Labor to break.

    But they don’t break promises, they just get accused of it by the media when the media decide to omit certain pieces of context from the pledge. ie, No Carbon Tax was about a very specific, consumption tax on energy, not the production price signal.

    I find it infuriating every time a media muppet mentions Carbon Price now. It reveals how low they as a group have sunk.

  31. Oh dear, Neil, the only ones guilty of dishonesty are you & your mate Voyager. You Librorts Party cheerleaders are getting increasingly pathetic & desperate in your attempts to defend your poster boys (ICAC got you nervous yet?) The Super Tax concession for rich people are already costing the budget $9 billion per annum, & that’s expected to more than double in the next decade. Then you have the Family Tax Benefit B, the 30% PHI Rebate & the Child Care Rebate….oh & more than $12 billion worth of flying lemons.

  32. Howard also left record private debt.

    I note the way that “debt” is differentiated depending on who the libs are talking about.

    When it is them, it is Government debt, when it is Labor, it is Gross debt.

    And rarely are they called on it.

  33. Abbott always said the levy on business for his PPL was only temporary. Would be transferred back to the taxpayer when the economy allowed.

    Abbott is opening something. in Geelong. Only to bean picture opportunity, no questions.

  34. Oh, & if we want to talk about responsible budgets, what kind of “responsible” governments try to sell a $250 million per year government owned enterprise (Medibank Private) for only $1 bliion, can the CEFC-which is making them $200 million per year, & the Mining Tax & Carbon Prices? Yet then wants to bring in an additional $5-$6 billion in extra spending?

  35. As I recall, the PHI rebate was only budgeted at $1 billion per year-it’s now costing over $5 billion. Yet waiting lists have *not* shortened since it came in. Time to scrap that wasteful piece of middle class welfare & put the money into actual hospitals instead.

  36. There has to be more stupidity to come. Mainly because this government is incapable of indentifying the real problems that face us.

    I suspect treasury is not been asked for assistance, and they are giving no advice.

    They are incapable of good governance.. There only aim is, to put their dogma and ideology in place. Not interested in anything else.

    That Andrew Neil, from the Spectator on QandA. said that all governments take their pet beliefs, prejudices and wants into government. Most soon realise that it is prudent to drop them, and get on with governing. This government has not done this.

  37. Please, do not allow ourselves to be distracted by Neil. Too many important currant issues to be addressed. None have anything to do with the previous two governments.

    It is all about Abbott, and no one else.

  38. Carol, your post bought immediate reaction from the numbers passing through., Good effort.

    Same is occurring with callers to ABC radio local NSW. I assume the same is true in other states.

    All seem to be sain, as many are here.is if the public has suddenly became aware of the true facts.

  39. Too many important currant issues to be addressed.

    I don’t disagree about the number of current issues, but nil has claimed that people are cashing in their super for lump sum payments and then claiming the pension as some kind of argument against compulsory superannuation.

    Since Compulsory superannuation, if it had reached the level it was meant to, would make much of the current debate around aged pensions redundant, I would like to see facts and figures for his argument. Or did he just read it on bolt?

  40. “No you didn’t. You confused a budget deficit with a structural deficit , even when I pointed it out to you

    I have you the link. In the 2009-10 budget Treasury said there was a structural deficit in the 2006 budget. Now Treasury is saying there was no structural deficit until the 08-09 budget.

    Wayne Swan has totally politicised Treasury. Treasury also said this


    Table 4, last column says we would have surplus budgets of $2.5B, $2.6B, $7B and $9.5B from 2112-13 to 2015-16

    So Treasury predictions were wrong.

  41. What is this difference between temporary and permanent taxes. I did not know that any where set in stone, and could not be changed at any time.

    Yes, one can bring in a levy with a grandpa clause. Tax rates are always going up or down. There is no such thing as permanence when it comes to taxes.

    That is the way it should be.
    Yes, a tax is a tax, is a tax. NO weasel words can change that.

    Saying that, we should be ;spending more t6ime looking at the revenue base. That will entail looking at new taxes and other ways to raise revenues. One cannot keep cutting taxes.

    Tax should always attempt to be progressive, not regressive and based on the ability to pay.

  42. Yes, cashing in ones super is a currant issue. Some could find themselves in the position I did. Thanks to have g to retire early, in circumstances beyond my control, not being old enough for the pension, I had to spend more of my rather small super to live. Many find themselves in this position, Others find themselves with mortgages to pay off.

    With families having children at a older age, I am not certain, that some still have the responsibility of caring for children, Many do care for their grand kids.

    Makes a nonsense of the intent to raise the pension age.

  43. This is the real problem with super. Not a handful o peop[le maybe rorting the system.

    ……….High fees are crippling superannuation balances, with Australians paying three times more than they should, a new report has found.

    The study, carried out by the Grattan Institute, found a 50 per cent reduction in fees would amount to a $10 billion a year saving for super fund holders.

    Jim Minifie, the Grattan Institute’s productivity growth program director, said the statistics pointed to a belated opportunity for change.

    “It’s the largest single opportunity for micro-economic reform in the Australian economy and it is long overdue,” Dr Minifie said.

    “Superannuation is inherently opaque and most people do not make an informed choice, instead paying into a default fund chosen by their employer.”

    Grattan is pressing for two reforms to reduce charges. The first is to introduce a low-price default fund for new job starters, with taxpayers allowed to match their fund against the new fund when completing their tax return. Meanwhile, the second is to permit customers to switch on the spot.

    “These reforms might reduce the revenues of super funds, but more importantly, they will take the nasty sting out of super for most Australians,” Dr Minifie said.

    According to the report, the average Australian is paying 1.2 per cent per annum in fees, which is over three times the average rate in the OECD.

    It leaves the average 50-year-old losing $80,000 in fees through to retirement and the average 30-year-old surrendering $250,000 ahead of retirement.

    Dr Minifie said the fees were not backed up by strong returns, with “funds that charge the highest fees consistently deliver(ing) lower returns than others once their fees are taken out.”.


    I do not see Neil raising these concerns.

  44. I also don’t see nil explaining his rubbish about lump sum payments somehow making Labors compulsory superannuation redundant.

  45. “The structural budget balance estimates shown in Chart 3 indicate that, prior to the GFC, underlying cash surpluses were supported by temporary (cyclical) factors”

    So what??

    Treasury is now saying that the budget was in actual and structural surplus before the GFC. Structural deficit only occurred under Swan

    The Costello surplus budgets would have been smaller however without the cyclical factors according to Treasury.

    Treasury also said we would have surplus budgets from 2012-2015

  46. I project that Neil will live to his next birthday, on all I know about him today.

    If he happens to walk in front of a car, that might not happen.

  47. Brandt still not supporting PPL, even with lower threshold. They still have to look at it more closely.

  48. When the IPA attacks Abbott and one I heard last night actually called what Abbott was doing “stupid”, then you know Abbott is on a loser. Then again we’ve always known he was a loser.

    The only person I’ve heard so far who have picked up on the biggest flaw in Abbott’s speech for getting rid of the deficit as soon as possible, apparently because it’s a dire emergency, believe it or not was someone from the IPA.

    Abbott is attempting to sell the hardship he’s inflicting on so many now as short term pain so that in three to four years when everything will be fantastic because of what he’s doing no he can handout tax cuts and increased government payments to Australians.

    Not only is he promises a largesse for everyone in a few years but he promised in forever after that. The country will be in prosperity in perpetuity because of the hardship he’s inflicting in this one budget.

    Does anyone else see the huge problem with this?

    As the IPA spokesperson picked up if this were the case then he would not have to inflict a huge whack now, and indeed this is counterproductive to what the stated aim is. A set of long term incremental and targeted reductions along with revenue raising measure could be implemented over several budgets or cycles and achieve a far better outcome for less hardship.

    Indeed that was what Labor was successfully doing or attempted to do but Abbott in opposition stopped, jumping on any measure that was made to reduce the deficit and increase revenue.

    Make no mistake this is all about Abbott and making him look good when the next election comes around. He is not doing this out of any fiscal responsibility or concern for the welfare of the country, he is doing it solely so he can go to an election bragging he has a surplus.

    What a misguided fool and shocking leader.

  49. Listening to reports of the ICAC, I wonder if those on the right, believe Abbott and maybe Baird are guilty by association, as they believed Gillard was?

    The reports seem to be getting more serious on Kathy Jackson. Does not deny the fund existed. 2002-2010.

  50. “with the point estimate of the structural budget balance falling into deficit just prior to the GFC.

    Yes and Rudd was in power just prior to the GFC.

    And Treasury also said we would have surplus budgets by now.

    Wayne Swan most probably spent most of his time in Opposition thinking up ways when in govt to trick his loyal supporters into believing lies.

    Looks like Swan has succeeded.

  51. No ME, he promises that pensions in the future will grow slower, as the country cannot afford to pay for them.

    NO those who suffer from ill health, or are need of welfare, are not on his list.
    Not sure who he promises the largesse for.

  52. Neil, you are now confusing me completely. Have no idea of what you are attempting to say.

    I bet even Swan believes, he should not have kept the promise to continue with Howard’s cuts. Everyone else seems to say so.

    What Labor should never have done, is buy into Abbott’s crying about surpluses,. Should never have promise one.

  53. Hear, hear! Wot Tom said @ April 30, 2014 @ 8:08 am

    Ah, naive little Johnny B – I’ve got a bridge with harbour views you might be interested in purchasing for a (relatively) small consideration 😆

    Neil – you lost this argument a week or so ago, a year or so ago, 18 months or so ago, a couple of years ago….. Why don’t you just F#¢& off and annoy someone else for a change? 👿

  54. “Neil – you lost this argument a week or so ago, a year or so ago, 18 months or so ago, a couple of years ago

    In the 09-10 budget Treasury said we went into structural deficit in 2006. Two years before the GFC.

    Now they are saying we went into structural deficit just before the GFC.

    I am just stating facts.

    Treasury also said we should be running surplus budget by now. Another fact.

    Fact is, Wayne Swan totally politicised Treasury to make people believe lies. And you people believe lies because you want to believe in lies.

  55. Now they are saying we went into structural deficit just before the GFC.

    two years is just before nil

    What about your lame attack on compulsory super? Do you have any facts to put forward, or is that just another scare campaign based on a failed assumption?

  56. I can bet my house that Neil is attempting to divert away from Abbott and this government by bringing up Labor and something in the past that’s related to them.

    People he’s attempting to obfuscate from this miserable failing government and the worst PM in our history who are now being attacked from all sides, even staunch conservatives and indeed even from within their own ranks as many have stated they will defy Abbott on not only his budget but also PPL and other brain fart policies.

    Neil will never address that but just constantly harp on about Labor in the past. There’s nothing on the planet that shows how terrible this government is than right wingers not being able to directly address its policy failures, lies, deceits and string of broken promises, instead they need to keep harping back to a previous government as a weak diversion.

    Don’t be diverted people. Keep the topic on this awful government and it’s woeful leader, both the worst this country has ever seen. That needs to be highlighted and talked about at every opportunity.

  57. Dear Mr Abbott

    I see from Sally’s blog that you were up to 132 on the broken promise/lie meter on 23rd April 2014. Although since then we’ve had the great big tax, I mean levy to fix something that would not have been needed if you hadn’t scuttled the mining industries resources rent tax. Remember?


    Also you believe reducing paying leave to wealthy mothers from $150,000 to $100,000, when what would really help women is affordable child-care while they are at work. Did you forget that as well?


    Then I am here to help.

    To be a successful liar you absolutely must have an excellent memory.

    Try the following:


    Now, I realise it is a bit sciencey ‘an all, but you need help you need it now, if you are not careful the next thing you will need is a good lawyer.

  58. Don’t be diverted people. Keep the topic on this awful government

    But his diversion, in this case the deficit, points to the previous liberals being the ones who trashed the budget, and then the current libs are the ones who tried to block everything Labor tried to do to rectify it.

    I find it illuminating for nil to put up links he thinks is bagging Labor, that merely highlight how poor a job howard did, and them mess he left this country in.

    It would be good if he engaged in his pension lump sum again, as all it does is highlight that howard and now tabot are creating a bigger hole for future Australians by not increasing the compulsory super. Instead, they want pensioners to suffer for their gutlessness.

  59. two years is just before nil

    No it is not.

    Just before the GFC they mean around about the time of Costello’s last budget or just after.

    And it is completely different to what Treasury said in 2009.

    Do you want me to post the graphs again that Treasury published in 2009 and again in 2013?? They are different.

    All i know is that you people are very susceptible to believing lies.

  60. Do you want me to post the graphs again that Treasury published in 2009 and again in 2013?? They are different.

    Go Ahead

    All i know is that you people are very susceptible to believing lies.

    You mean about people cashing in their compulsory super for lump sum payments in order to go on the aged pension?

  61. Tom, it was the world’s laziest treasurer in his 2006-07 budget who caused the problem with lump sum withdrawals from super – Once you turn 60, lump sum withdrawals (and allocated pensions) become tax free. That provides a MASSIVE incentive for people to withdraw a large lump sum from their super once they turn 60, spending it how they please (overseas travel, new cars, etc…) and then claiming the pension once they turn 65 (currently – 67 by the time I get there, 70+ if these F’wits get their way).

    To have a retirement income as envisaged by Mr Keating, we should have a contribution rate of 15% and a hefty tax for lump sum withdrawals before death. There should be incentive to take super as an annuity or pension, rather than as a lump sum to p!$$ against the wall before taking a government funded pension…

  62. Wow, could I have been right? no “levy”. Instead, doing what they actively fought against when Labor were in power.

    The Daily Telegraph has learnt that rather than a levy or tax on workers, the Abbott government is considering measures to reverse the Howard-Costello tax cuts to impose a temporary lift in tax thresholds for incomes above $80,000 a year.


    Interesting that all these leaks are coming out of ltdnews.

    Not really, isn’t that where rudds leaks went?

    But, interestingly, in order to get rid of a structural deficit, they go to the source, the Howard-Costello tax cuts

  63. If you’ve spent your lump sum on holidays or paying off mortgage on your home, you will have no assessable assets from your super left. From your link:

    Can I spend my entire super and then get the pension?

    If you are over 60 and have permanently retired from the workforce, you will be able to withdraw 100% of your super, spend it, and then apply for the age pension if you have reached the qualifying age.

    You do not need to spend all your money to receive the pension and in many cases you may be better off maximising the income from your super/investments than solely relying on the age pension.

  64. “Go Ahead”

    This is what Treasury published in 2009. Look at Chart 10


    “Based on these estimates, the structural budget balance deteriorated from 2002‑03, moving into structural deficit in 2006‑07.

    The line crosses zero in Costello’s third last budget says Treasury in 2009.

    This is what Treasury published in 2013


    In the updated figures the line crosses zero in Costello’s last budget.

  65. If you’ve spent your lump sum on holidays or paying off mortgage on your home, you will have no assessable assets from your super left.

    I understand that Bacchus, but, that doesn’t ignore the fact that lump sum payments, regardless of what you do with them, are considered in the assets for determining payments. You might be better off doing as they say, but that isn’t to say that this is a huge rort going on, in the way that nil has been implying. The lump sums are taken into consideration, depending on your circumstance, taking a lump sum and investing might be better, or keeping it might. It, as of itself, doesn’t appear to be a huge rort that is destroying the age pension, as it is considered in the determination of it.

    Unless there are some facts or figures out there that dispute that?

  66. http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/08/superannuation-is-inequitable-and-unsustainable/

    As illustrated in the above table, there are many flaws in Australia’s superannuation system that make it both highly inequitable and unsustainable as Australia’s population ages. Central among these concerns is that it allows an individual to retire at 60, withdraw their super tax free as a lump sum, blow the money on consumption, and then go on the aged pension from 65 years of age. In such instances, the taxpayer is left wearing the cost of superannuation concessions throughout the individual’s working life, and then again once that same individual goes on the aged pension. It is a loop hole that must be closed, and taxing superannuation lump sums, whilst at the same time encouraging retirees to withdraw their savings as a annuity (instead of the pension), is essential to ensure the system’s longevity.

    Where you’re going wrong Tom is in assuming a lump sum you take at say 61 years of age affects how much pension you get when you reach pension age. NOTE: it doesn’t.

    It can, if you take it and invest it for some sort of return – maybe shares for example. The shares and dividends from them would be assessable assets and income for the purpose of the age pension.

    Spending it before pension age (p!$$ing it against the wall) leaves nothing assessable when you hit pension age…

  67. Under Abbott’s PPL, the amount will be capped but there is no means test. I take that, even Gina could accept the capped amount.

    MC. Still nothing but rubbish from Abbott.

    Still debt and deficit disaster. Funny, he is the only one that seems to see that.

  68. leaves nothing assessable when you hit pension age…

    I’m not sure that is what the link I put up said. It merely said that lump sum payments are calculated in the determination of pension rates. It doesn’t appear to care what you have done with them, unless, as you say, you are making money from that investment. Else, it is just taken as a dollar value.

    It is interesting that the article you linked to at macrobusiness mentions that “it allows an individual to retire at 60, withdraw their super tax free as a lump sum, blow the money on consumption, and then go on the aged pension from 65 years of age.”, yet the article that one references doesn’t. It is concerning itself with the tax concessions applied. It is like the writer has just made up a lot of stuff there. I don’t see the link between the two?

  69. Howard and Costello’s structural budget deficit is coming back to bite Abbott and Hockey on the bum. Justice!

  70. Which is absolute proof that Howard’s profligacy, something even Costello railed against, is the current cause of the supposed budget emergency, which really isn’t an emergency at all and there’s really no need for all this running around in a panic like a headless chook.

    This running around in a panic by Abbott is for one purpose only, for Abbott at the next election.

    He’s tanking from an already low base and needs something so be a hero on.

    He tanked big time on MH370 to the point he’s been criticised overseas for his bravado and misleading statements.

    He’s tanked big time since winning the election to the point his own party is turning on him and even right wing commentators and organisations are openly criticising him.

    His constant string of lies are coming back to bite him and he’s desperate for a distraction that will make him look good. He probably prays for a large disaster, attack or a war to happen so he puff out his chest and play savior of the world. Because they are purely by chance he’s manufacturing an economic disaster where there is none and he’s also manufacturing the solution to the problem that doesn’t exist.

    Just as he wouldn’t care how many people are killed or hurt in a disaster, as long as he can be there having pictures taken of him consoling the survivors and promising to do whatever it takes, he doesn’t care how many are hurt by his disastrous policies, as long as he can brag about his surplus when the next election comes around and how he saved the country from a collapse that was never going to happen.

  71. I was curious at the look McFarlane was giving Abbott at that MC. Did not appear to be one, that had full confidence in his leader. One needs to recall, McFarlane was sold out by Hockey and Co, while dealing with GMH. He was left like a shag on a rock.

  72. McFarlane was sold out by Hockey and Co, while dealing with GMH.

    Wasn’t he also the one who almost had a deal with Labor over the ETS, until the libs renigged on that?

  73. If people are cashing out their super, and not having any left when they approach retirement age, that loop hole needs to be closed. I suspect, that Centrelink will want to know what happened to it. One cannot spend money without explanation. Giving it to family is not an option.

    It appears there is no communication between Abbott’s office and back bench. First they heard of the tax, which is not a tax or broken promise, was when they woke, listening to the news, Not given any indication of what they should say.

    Where is Hockey today?

  74. All I know, that he was saying there could be a deal with GMH, even when he came into QT that day. Hockey then stood up, and slammed into GMH.

  75. I wonder if Abbott has communicated with Hockey. Barnaby said yesterday, he was not aware of any changes.

    This is adults, grownups in charge of the government. Not even capable of being in charge of a henhouse.

  76. I think that McFarlane is one f the better ministers, but I suspect he is not in the inner circle.

  77. “Howard and Costello’s structural budget deficit is coming back to bite Abbott and Hockey on the bum

    ALP supporters are truly deceitful.

    Just say Costello ran budget surpluses of say $30B or $40B instead of the $20B surpluses he was running??

    Cuppa would then say he is not spending enough and saving too much.

    There would be rioting in the streets if Costello ran surplus budgets of the size you are advocating.

  78. Cuppa would then say he is not spending enough and saving too much.

    I would too.

    He should have been putting it towards improving the country. I have a coupla ideas



  79. Tom R


    People like Cuppa say the Costello surplus budgets were too small so we went into deficit when the world economy went bad.

    When you hate somebody the attacks are nonsensical.

    Jeff Kennet ran surplus budgets and got thrown out because he did not spend enough on services.

    So what Cuppa says Costello should have done is not only wrong, because there was not a structural deficit, but was politically impossible anyway.

    There would have been rioting in the streets by ALP supporters if Costello ran a $40B surplus. We want services they would be proclaiming.

  80. People like Cuppa say the Costello surplus budgets were too small

    I think you will find that it wasn’t as simple as “surplus” from what Cuppa said. It is usually tempered with things like “or services” or the such.

    Although, I’m sure you could find a quote where he mentions surpluses without the other, but, that doesn’t really negate the intent.

    But, I give costello kudos for building a surplus, but he loses many more for allowing howard to be so profligate, and also for costello himself not being interested in investing in more tangible reforms with those windfall savings.

  81. But, I give costello kudos for building a surplus, but he loses many more for allowing howard to be so profligate, and also for costello himself not being interested in investing in more tangible reforms with those windfall savings.

    Indeed in gambling with billions of that surplus and losing just as Hockey is doing with his gamble on the Australian dollar going down and losing, which is one of the reason on top of a bragging right for Abbott that there is a supposed budget emergency, a $68 billion deficit purely of Hockey’s making.

  82. A link to the AM program I think it was FU was referring to earlier

    PETER RYAN: You seem to be saying that the language we’re hearing is being exaggerated for political purposes, but isn’t there the point that without prudent action now there will be a crisis in years to come?

    RAJA JUNANKAR: Well if there’s a world crisis of course then we might have problems. I don’t think there’s any question that if the Chinese economy collapses and the European Union collapses that we would have problems, but it’s not a crisis. We don’t have to suddenly close all the hatches and say “Crisis, crisis! We have to stop doing everything, cut back on all our welfare programs” – which is what the Government is trying to do. It is just a political stunt to try and persuade people that we have to cut back on things that this Government would like to cut back on anyway.


    Funny how there were none of these questions before the election when for three long years the opposition crapped on about the “budget emergency”

    Guess they were too busy focusing on Gillards glasses?

  83. “and also for costello himself not being interested in investing in more tangible reforms with those windfall savings.”

    They were not windfall savings. We did something from 1996-2007 that no major Western Country did and Labor would never have done. Our Federal govt took govt debt to zero during this time of so-called world wide prosperity.

    And Cuppa is too stupid to realise what he is demanding of Costello.

    Kennett found out what happens to govts who run surplus budgets,

  84. The way the Lieberals brag about it, one could be excused for concluding that Howard / Costello were the only government in history to record surplus budgets. It’s not so. In the boom days that preceded the GFC, numerous countries had their budgets in the black as windfall tax revenue poured into national coffers.

    What distinguished Australia, however – the Howard/Costello paper ‘surplus’ was one of the smallest in the world in per-GDP terms.

    Surpluses per GDP, Global comparisons, 2007

    Norway 18.9%
    Saudi Arabia 18.7%
    Chile 8%
    Russia 4%
    Denmark 3.8%
    Australia (Liberal government) 1.4%


    This would be explained by the fact that Howard/Costello were the most wasteful government in Australia’s 200-year history, as found by a 2012 report for the IMF. They were more interested in bribing voters (including Nil?) than putting funds aside to innoculate the economy against the bust that would predictably follow the boom times they were fortunate enough to enjoy.

    And because there wasn’t enough money put aside by the Lieberals for the ‘rainy day’, Labor came to office and had to go into debt almost immediately to stimulate against the GFC.


  85. Leaving the CEF suite of bills in place, willquickly lead to cheaper electricity. What Abbott is doing will lead to higher power prices.

    Axing our 20% renewable energy target will lead to … $22 a year savings for households to 2017-18, $50 a year cost to households by 2020, $11b less in investments in renewable energy projects and 34.7m tonnes more greenhouse gas emissions by 2019-20. SOURCE: ROAM CONSULTING, CLEAN ENERGY COUNCIL Photo: Graham Tidy

    Axing Australia’s renewable-energy target – currently under review by the Abbott government – would halt $11 billion in future investments and mean higher household power bills by decade’s end, new modelling has found.

    The modelling, commissioned by the Clean Energy Council, which represents the renewables industry, finds power bills are higher in the short term because of the target, but households would end up about $50 a year better off in 2020 if the target is left in place.

    The work is part of the industry’s pitch to protect the renewable-energy target, under which at least 20 per cent of Australia’s electricity will come from renewable sources by 2020.

    The Abbott government has commissioned a review of the target, headed by senior business figure Dick Warburton, who is sceptical of the science underpinning human-caused climate change.

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott has previously declared that he wants Australia to be the ”affordable energy capital of the world”, but he said the way the target was working at the moment was putting upwards pressure on power prices.

    The modelling was carried out by consultants ROAM, who studied what would happen if the target were discontinued or left to run as planned. It did not look at reducing the target to account for falling electricity demand, as proposed by some major energy companies.

    The report concludes that having the target in place means average household power bills would be $11 to $22 a year higher until 2017-18 than if no more renewable-energy projects were built under the scheme.

    But the modelling finds that if the target is left in place then at the end of the decade, the boost to renewable-energy facilities would displace the need to use more gas power as growing energy demand returns, keeping wholesale power prices low. The report says that as a result, average household power bills would be $51 lower in 2020 than if the target was axed, and an average of $100 a year lower after 2020.

    The report also says that if the renewable energy target was repealed, $11 billion in new investments would not go ahead – and Australia’s cumulative greenhouse gas emissions would be 34.7 million tonnes higher by 2020………

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/households-face-higher-power-bills-by-2020-if-renewableenergy-target-is-scrapped-study-finds-20140429-zr1ec.html#ixzz30LsDkH4O

  86. “Taxpayers Australia decided it was time to look behind the spin and hyperbole and investigate the truth behind myths commonly trotted out by politicians. The conclusions were surprising because our analysis suggests that Australia has one of the most sustainable tax systems in the world, with a tax burden which has been steadily decreasing in the past decade and national spending that pales in comparison to that of other countries. Not what the politicians and doom-merchants would have you believe… ”

  87. FU,

    Idiot Boy has all but promised electricity prices will fall. At least, that’s what he’s led people to believe. Voters will be lining up to whack the Lieberals as their bills keep growing. A disaster government from Day One.

  88. “Taxpayers Australia spokesman, Mark Chapman, pointed out that “the debt levy is touted as a measure that will impose a tax liability on every Australian earning more than a certain level of income, with an increased burden made on wealthier citizens of Australia.”

    “What commentators have so far ignored is that the income of higher income earners is often spread across a number of entities within that wealthy citizen’s ‘tax structure’ (entities such as trusts and companies, as well as family members),” Chapman said. “This means that a great number of high net worth and higher income earning individuals will be able to wholly avoid this impost.”

  89. it is common-sense to understand, the quicker renewals come in, there will be no carbon emissions to tax, prices will come down.

    Hunt and Abbotts rant that the tax would go up. Yes it will, but the carbon emissions will be disappearing. Therefor no so called carbon tax to pay.

  90. Bet anything that Neil isn’t talking about the rampant disunity in the Liberal party at the moment, it’s certainly being discussed by right wing commentators and supporters.

    Bet anything that Neil isn’t talking about Abbott’s major lies and blatant broken promises right wing commentators and staunch conservatives are highlighting and condemning Abbott over at the moment.

    No he will be going on about something Labor, something he has raised dozens or more times before and he does so purely to avoid talking about the considerable failures of the Liberals, especially Abbott who by any measure is a terrible leader, a iterate liar and a woeful human being.

    What a sad small minded person.

  91. MO,

    I hereby nominate Nil of Sydney

    Most Boring Person at the Cafe.

    He’d have to be a frontrunner for the award

    Most Boring Person on the Internet.

  92. the rampant disunity in the Liberal party at the moment

    Only a matter of time until the media start going on about “shambles”, chaotic”, isn’t it?

    btw Cuppa, I hope you didn’t mind me speaking for you earlier @ 3:24 pm, I didn’t really consider until after I had posted. Sincerest if I trod on your toes at all. 😦

  93. “What the Lieberals did was nothing special.

    Hawke/Keating couldn’t do it. Rudd/Gillard could not do it. Debt greatly increased under those ALP govts

    So Cuppa says the Costello surplus budgets were not big enough.

    But many lefties said Costello should be spending more. We want services, heath education and you can stick your surplus budgets where the sun does not shine.

    Basically not only is love blind but hatred is also blind.

    I nominate Cuppa for the most dishonest person.

  94. As everyone starts to pull Abbott’s six year string of lies and slogans apart, and calls them for what they are, there’s one biggy they are allowing through to the keeper at the moment, and I really hope someone in the mainstream picks up on it because it undermines everything Abbott is premising his attack on the budget deficit on.

    Abbott is going on about the current debt as though it’s a surprise and he’s suddenly discovered it, thus the immediate need for drastic action to fix it.

    Well that’s blatant misinformation.

    If you go back to when Abbott was in opposition and during the election he more than once stated he knew the economy was in a mess, a lie of course, and laid his solutions (of no surprises and a guarantee).

    Not long after winning government the budget figures came out exactly as the previous Labor government had stated. Abbott and Hockey had said on several occasions Swan was lying, turned out they were.

    So knowing both before and immediately after the election the state of finances and having already detailed his policies in light of that, carbon, mining tax, PPL, Gonski, better and cheaper broadband etc. and after having added $68 billion of debt in light of that, something that is conveniently ignored, now of all of sudden he has discovered an budget emergency.

    Isn’t this the second time they have found a budget emergency after losing the first one?

    The media should be pointing out that Abbott during the election knew the state of the budget, even declaring at that time it was in emergency and made his set in stone promises, list of pledges and guarantee based on that knowledge. Now he’s breaking his set in stone promises, has thrown his pledges out the door, ripped up his guarantee and is throwing out surprise after surprise when he promised no surprises.

    He’s making drastic and damaging policy decisions, even altering his signature policy of PPL that was never going to be compromised according to him, actually staking his leadership on it, on the lie of an exaggerated budget emergency he knew about but is now intimating he’s just discovered.

    This blatant contradiction should be in the headlines and he should be confronted with it instead of of being photographed at the opening of an NDIS centre that was of Labor’s making and a policy he doesn’t believe in but is willing to take the kudos for. Very like Howard in that respect.

    And right wingers. You sure backed the greatest dud this country has ever seen. We warned you this would be the case but instead you kept going on about Labor and Labor leaders whilst your man was illustrating why he’s the worst PM we’ve ever had. So bad that you can’t confront that and admit you made the biggest screw up in your lives in voting for this tongue flicking moron.

  95. Nil of Sydney wrote:

    We did something from 1996-2007 that no major Western Country did and Labor would never have done. Our Federal govt took govt debt to zero

    Why lie, Nil of Sydney?

    Stephen Koukoulas again,

    It is not unusual in the last four decades or so for the government to have no net debt.


    Nil of Sydney also dishonestly states “govt debt zero”, but at no stage did the Lieberals eliminate GROSS DEBT. Koukoulas:

    At no stage under Mr Howard did gross debt fall below $47 billion, and since Federation in 1901, the Australian government has always had gross debt. Always.


    Lies upon lies from Nil of Sydney to try and justify the most wasteful government in the history of Australia.

  96. Stephen Koukoulas is a pathological liar. No wonder you quote him.

    You and Koukoulas go together.

  97. In reliable Lieberal form Abbott has been lying again and again. He said there would be no new taxes, now they are proposing a Great Big New Tax. He made a commitment about the PPL that it would pay benefits up to $150,000, but the figure has been revised down to $100,000. His word means nothing, no wonder the likes of Nil of Sydney don’t try to justify it. Poor Nil is still stuck going in a time warp going round and round trying to make excuses for the failed Howard government that we kicked out seven years ago.

  98. Neil my friend you should have quit while you were behind pal. Living in the past isnt doing you many favours, time to catch up and join 2014. We have the Abbott Liberal Govt running things at the moment, Costello and Howard have been gone for some time. I do appreciate your earnestness and loyalty, but your talking absolute garbage on the whole. Costello wasnt in fact a great treasurer, he was lucky he got to play during a mining boom. Howard wasnt a hero, he was a weasly, whiney lil guy who likewise was fortunate in his timing – unfortunately for us he DID in fact waste his (and our) good fortune and set us on the extremely trouble ridden road which Abbott and co are attempting to drag us down. I realise you will continue to ferociously defend your idols, but be aware the rest of the people in this country are beginning to wake up and smell the truth. Perhaps another, closer look at a few facts may help – cant hurt!

  99. ” he was lucky he got to play during a mining boom.”

    Mining boom did not start until 2004. There was no mining boom from 1996-2004.

    It was Rudd/Gillard who got the most benefit from the mining boom which exploded in 2008.

    Fair dinkum. You lot are all pathological liars.

  100. Vicki,

    The proof of the pudding is in how the Lieberals perform during times of unfavorable global conditions.

    Howard and Costello faced a period of very slight global downturn in 2000/2001. Result: The government went into deficit… after they’d earlier promised a surplus.

    Howard faced a more serious global downturn as treasurer in the late 1970s, early 1980s (though not as serious a downturn as Labor faced with the GFC). He racked up debt and deficit year upon year, along with unemployment, interest rates and inflation all in double digits together.

    So despite their false bragging, the Liberals have their history of debt and deficit when global conditions are against them. Howard and Costello were very lucky their time in office coincided with a humungous global boom, intensified domestically by a resources boom.

  101. Bernard Keane, 30 April 2009 on Costello’s structural deficit and his hypocritical attack on the Labor government:

    …the Commonwealth is now significantly more exposed to a collapse in company tax revenue.

    The man most responsible for this shift is Peter Costello.

    […]But it was Costello who aggressively pushed within Government for using the windfall from the mining boom to fund tax cuts. Costello presided over a massive increase in both permanent and one-off Government expenditure on cash handouts via middle-class welfare. He is keen to blame John Howard for this profligacy, but he was Treasurer. You don’t get to pick and choose what you’re responsible for.

    For Costello to now attack the Government for its high levels of debt, as he did in his Fairfax column and at the launch of Peter Hartcher’s book yesterday, shows that the man is either a fool who has minimal understanding of Government finances despite running them for a decade, or that he is a colossal hypocrite.

    The Government now faces a massive deficit mostly because of the unsustainable tax mix Peter Costello bequeathed to it.


  102. “I might forward your comments to Mr Koukoulas, Nil of Sydney”

    Please do. People like Koukoulas is the reason wars start.

    One thing he does he tries to make out Costello paid off most of the $96B of debt he inherited in 1996 by asset sales. And anybody could do that he says.

    If that is so where did the $80B in the Future Fund come from??

    Mr Stephen Koukoulas is a liar, a fraud and just an immoral human being.

    And that is why you quote him. Similar people stick together.

  103. The media should be pointing out that Abbott during the election knew the state of the budget

    I’ll give them some small kudos, well, on abc 24 at least. They ran a piece tonight highlighting what was on AM this morning about the economists disagreeing with the libs and telling how strong our economy when compared to thee rest of the world.

    If they had played this kind of stuff before the election, who knows………..? But back then, apparently the relative strength of our economy was a Labor fiction, and all we heard was doom and gloom from tabot and the various “commentators”

    There was a little”better late then never” when I saw it, but, the damage has been done, so maybe it might as well be never

  104. Yes cuppa, Howard was the beneficiary of the coming together of several favourable factors.

    The increase in the longest sustained economic growth in global history that started two years before he won office.

    The handing over of an improving economy, something he admitted when he said “I was handed an economy better by half than I expected.”

    The benefit of the greatest set of economic reforms instigated by a government, a Labor government.

    The selling off of high value assets, the negative effects for which we are still suffering today.

    The shift of public debt on the the private sector to take us to the greatest private debtor nation on the planet. You can see graphs of private debt sky rocket after his first term.

    The running down of infrastructure and underspending in long term assets, the effects for which we are still suffering today.

    Then to top it off he ran into a mining boom at a time his economic fortunes were going to go south, something Costello warned against but Howard ignored.

    And then to shit on us all as if his structural deficit and GST weren’t bad enough punishment on the population of Australia he gave us Abbott, the worst leader of the worst government this country has ever seen. A government so bad it embarrasses Howard, but is his spawn.

  105. Phil Lewis, The Conversation, 08 May 2013

    I get the feeling that Phil Lewis is about to be called a liar by someone 😉

  106. “People like Koukoulas is the reason wars start.”

    Yep. Koukoulas is a born liar.

    No wonder you people always link to him. Same goes for Bernard Keane.

  107. Howard certainly poisoned the well with his wasteful ways and now with his atrocious protege, Abbott. The Howard Era = the Howard Error.

  108. Neil of Sydney leaves the lot of you for dead. You lot basically quote left wing opinion rags to support your left wing bias.

  109. So like NoS, you put your fingers in your ears and go, “La la la la la la la la” too little Johnny B? 😆

  110. You lot basically quote left wing opinion rags

    Yea, we should go to unbiased sources like nos does, turnbull 😆 😆

  111. In the UK at the moment, there’s skyrocketing food poverty. And in the US, more than one in five American kids live in a ‘food insecure’ household. In both cases, inadequate low-income wages, high unemployment, and inadequate welfare are all significant contributors. And this is exactly where Australia is heading…

    What he’s already done


    but the worst was to come

    And we have more pensioners living in poverty than any country except Korea…

    And this mob want to make it worst for them? 😯

  112. It appears we are to get competitive Federalism or something. Close down all federal bodies. Hand all back to the states, with a little money. Everything else to be contracted out.

    Hey, what is the ICAC investigations about. Yes, corruption cause by industry seeking contracts.

    Where did one see, this government say they where going down the track of small government. Well this small.

  113. I think we seen a little of it yesterday with Abbott’s announcement of extra money for the auto industry. Victoria and SA will have to complete for the money.

  114. Hey, what is the ICAC investigations about. Yes, corruption cause by industry seeking contracts.

    Interesting that you should mention that FU. Very timely

    The Liberal party federal director, Brian Loughnane, has offered “business observers” a breakfast with the prime minister, Tony Abbott, and access to his ministers’ chiefs of staff for $11,000, at the same time as New South Wales Liberal party members face scrutiny in the Independent Commission Against Corruption over influence peddling.


  115. The voters have been conned by Abbott for the past Six Years, but now they have woken up to his propaganda and realise what a truly vile and deceiving bastard he is.

  116. Didn’t Jeff Kennett have a massive spray at Abbott on Lateline last night.

    Already the Commission of Audit is being called for the predetermined farce it is.

    As several senior economists have pointed out, as well as Jeff Kennett, everything is on the spending side of the register with only an ill thought out band aid of a deficit levy on the revenue side.

    Negative gearing to stay.
    Superannuation tax breaks for the rich to stay.
    Rolling annual income tax cuts to stay.
    Massive subsidies to large industries who ship their profits overseas stay.

    All the revenue measures that can be looked out are not and the couple that were there, the carbon price and MRRT are being scrapped.

    JohnB how about you show us you’re not right wing biased and an ideological mindless follower of the Liberals by condemning Abbott for all his broken promises, lies and failures since becoming PM?

  117. All the revenue measures that can be looked out are not and the couple that were there, the carbon price and MRRT are being scrapped.

    Plus re-installing the FBT tax perk on cars in order to save our automotive Industry 😯

  118. “The $30b Howard tax cuts of 2007 that Rudd agreed to are the basis of the issue,given in good times now need to take some back -revenue

    But Stephen Koukoulas says the Howard/Costello govt was the highest taxing ever. I can show a link if you people want one.

    Basically with such hatred, Costello cannot win.

    He gives tax cuts and is condemned but Koukoulas says anybody could run a surplus budget if he taxed like Costello.

    Love is blind but hatred is even blinder.

  119. But Stephen Koukoulas says the Howard/Costello govt was the highest taxing ever. I can show a link if you people want one.

    Can you explain “tax churn” for me at all nos?

  120. Lookup results for from whois.lacnic.net server:

    inetnum: –
    descr: Ministry of Premier & Cabinet of WA
    descr: 197 St Georges Tce
    descr: Perth
    descr: WA 6000
    country: AU
    admin-c: BG30-AP
    tech-c: BG30-AP
    mnt-by: APNIC-HM
    changed: nobody@aunic.net 19970221
    changed: aunic-transfer@apnic.net 20010525
    changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20050912
    source: APNIC
    person: Brian Gannon
    address: Ministry of Premier and Cabinet
    address: 197 St Georges Tce
    address: Perth
    address: WA 6000
    country: AU
    phone: +61 08 9222 9578
    e-mail: bgannon@dpc.wa.gov.au
    nic-hdl: BG30-AP
    remarks: it manager
    remarks: This data originated from AUNIC, and was copied as part of
    remarks: the AUNIC to APNIC migration. http://www.apnic.net/db/aunic/
    remarks: Original nic-hdl in AUNIC: BG2-AU
    mnt-by: MAINT-AU-BG30-AP
    changed: nobody@aunic.net 19950404
    changed: aunic-transfer@apnic.net 20010523
    changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20050912
    source: APNIC

  121. Oh Dear, someone deleted the Wiki entry. It said this

    Eighth Wonder of the World


    Repairing Australia’s budget from 2014.

  122. Eighth Wonder of the World


    Repairing Australia’s budget from 2014.

    And now tis gone 😦


  123. I have heard Hockey complain more than once, that Centrelink computers are not up to scratch. Seems to be blaming the system for having to wait so long. Maybe the problems is, there are not enough humans/workers available on the end of the phones.

    Yes taxing the sick does make sense??????????????

    I thought we already have co payment on medicine.

    Yes, we will be forced to stand on our own two feet. Yes, we will be fully dependent on the largesse that the employer decides is our worth.

    If not, I assume we starve. Lack of access to health will soon clear out the ranks.

  124. Our economy

    I wonder if anyone knows, your teenagers ability to get the dole, depends on the parents income. Not too sure up to what age, but into one’s twenties.

  125. “In a surprise recommendation, the commission has suggested that the way minimum wages are set through an annual review overseen by the Fair Work Commission should be scrapped.

    Instead, it is proposing a “minimum wage benchmark”, which would fix minimum wages well below what they are now at 44% of average weekly earnings.

    The recommendation, which will provoke a strong response from the union movement and fuel further criticism that the Commission of Audit – dubbed the ‘Commission of Cuts’…..”

    One wonders what will happen when ‘everyone’ has been shunted on to the minimum wage, will that then become the new ‘average wage’ :/

  126. Big business and the right wing think tanks are lauding this Commission of Audit saying that it is necessary and the budget is in such dire straits that drastic action like that recommended needs to be taken.

    Say no more. It’s a snow job and they’ve confirmed it.

  127. One big business union even went as far to say that though it was chaired by big business, it wasn’t chaired by pollies, though I’m glad to see they admit Vanstone wasn’t a pollie’s arsehole, and what they recommended was in no way biased towards big business. The big business spokesperson then went on to say how great it was.

    These people are joking surely.

  128. which would fix minimum wages well below what they are now at 44% of average weekly earnings.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but, if you set the minimum wage at 44% of the average, won’t that then bring the average down, at which point, you need to reset the minimum at 44% of the average, which then brings the average down, at which point………..

    You get the picture?

  129. Stephen “Pathological Liar” Koukoulas is at it again

    the Howard government which takes the cake for the highest taxing government in Australia’s history.

    But, but, but Cuppa says the Costello tax cuts left a structural deficit in the budget.

    So Stephen “Pathological Liar” Koukoulas says Costello taxed a lot but Cuppa who also appears to be a pathological liar says that Costello did not tax enough.

    I think Cuppa is also a Pathological Liar like Koukoulas.

    Like attracts like . So it makes sense that Cuppa is attracted by Koukoulas.

  130. Cuppa who also appears to be a pathological liar says that Costello did not tax enough.

    Except Neil, Cuppa said no such thing. You can check the figures for yourself – they’re in every budget and MYEFO published.

    FACT: the Howard government WAS the highest taxing in history, averaging receipts of 25.04% GDP

    In comparison, the Hawke/Keating governments averaged receipts of 24% GDP and the Rudd/Gillard years come in at an average of 22.8% GDP.

    Source: 2013-14 MYEFO.

    Now go away and play with your little school fiends Neil. Actual grown-ups want to discuss issues here, rather than listen to your uneducated, misguided, partisan crap 👿

  131. “Dr Henry highlighted on Wednesday that Commonwealth government revenue had fallen from 26 per cent of GDP in 2001-01 to just 23 per cent of GDP last year.

    Meanwhile, government expenditure as a proportion of GDP had fallen from 25 per cent to 24 per cent over the same period.

    “Because revenue has fallen by 3 percentage points of GDP and spending has fallen by only 1 per cent, the budget [has] flipped around from a surplus of 1 per cent of GDP to a deficit of 1 per cent,” Dr Henry said.

    And estimates for the present fiscal year are for an “even larger deficit,” he said.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/austerity-will-be-needed-to-fix-budget-shortfall-says-ken-henry-20140430-zr1vw.html

  132. What an utter joke this Commission of Audit is turning out to be.

    Manufacturing to be creamed. The financial industries to be better off.

    Just two of the inequalities highlighted. And then when they look into the details of the figures they find areas where they want to hurt the figures are there but when it comes to the details of the sharing the burden by the upper end of town there are scant and incomplete figures.

    No wonder there’s a massive backlash from not only those who will be so badly hurt by this farce purely to make Abbott look good in two and half years but from many on the right and from within the party who can already see the massive backlash that will be squarely aimed at them when the budget hits.

    And this devolving responsibility to the States and taking it away from Abbott. Another massive joke as the Federal Liberals know the State Liberals are going to lose their governments so are going to shift all blame for their massive failings of their government to State Labor governments.

    It’s all Liberals ever know, stuff up massively and blame shift to others for their constant screw ups and deceptions.

  133. “FACT: the Howard government WAS the highest taxing in history, averaging receipts of 25.04% GDP

    But i have seen many people say that the Costello tax cuts which he gave almost every year gave us a structural deficit (which did not exist anyway).

    So did Costello tax too much or not enough???

    All i see on Quiggen and other left wing blogs is that the Costello tax cuts caused us problems

    Love is blind but hatred is even blinder.”

  134. Stuff me pickled grandmother’s mushrooms! Are you even capable of rational thought Neil, let alone alternative (outside of the square) thought?

    Perhaps there is another approach that should have been taken? I’ll give you a little hint, just this once – correctly targeted spending on nation building infrastructure would have been better than structurally unsustainable largess. It would see us in a much stronger position now.

    Of course, this was too much like work for the world’s laziest treasurer 🙄

  135. Whilst Abbott’s lot take refuge in the “it’s just a report, not policy” defence it’s funny how they expect to be taken at their word with what’s only Today’s Gospel, would we ever tell a fib, truth. It’s not pre August 2013’s TGwwetaft & nor will it be the case in, who knows, six months or maybe six minutes. Nothing, good or bad, they say can be believed. Nothing.

  136. “Are you even capable of rational thought Neil, let alone alternative (outside of the square) thought?”

    i am just stating the contradiction of ALP supporters.

    Some people like Koukoulas say Costello was a high taxing govt

    Some people like Cuppa say Costello did not tax enough.

    I also suspect the rest of your rant is wrong.

  137. nos, it has been explained quite clearly

    highest taxing Gov

    Highest spending Gov

    The secret is to get rid of the churn, something Labor started to, against massive opposition from the libs and media.

    And, as the budget papers you linked to showed, even though we were in structural deficit, this didn’t become obvious until the GFC exacerbated it.

  138. “Highest spending Gov”

    I think you will find Wayne Swan has the record for that.

    Furthermore i do not believe those Structural Deficits calculations. Most probably only measurable when it is really large like now. Treasury has had several goes at measuring it and gets a different result each time. It is only good to use for propaganda purposes.

    Treasury also said we would be in surplus by now.

  139. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_deficit

    Some economists have questioned the distinction between cyclical and structural deficits. They contend that there are too many variables involved to allow a clear distinction to be made, especially when dealing with current circumstances rather than retrospectively, and suggest that the concept of structural deficits may be used more for political purposes than analytical purposes”

  140. I think you will find Wayne Swan has the record for that.

    Perhaps your memory is fading, as I know other posters have told you of this very often.

    AUSTRALIA’S most needless wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam, Rudd or Gillard Labor governments, a study has found.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australias-most-wasteful-spending-came-in-howard-era-finds-imf-study-20130110-2cj38.html#ixzz30VXwvcAp

    Treasury has had several goes at measuring it and gets a different result each time.

    As your links stated, they used different assumptions and also I think different methodologies.

    The specifics didn’t match up,but hte trend was clear, in the Howard years, our economy went from a strong foundation to one relying on “good times”

    This only highlights how gusy the call was from Labor to stimulate the economy, as they could see where we were already at thanks to howard and costello, and that the stimulus would only exacerbate it. I’m just glad they decided jobs were more important than political brinkmanship. They paid for it dearly though, but I haven’t missed what they did.

  141. Poor old Nil is still trying to make excuses for the lazy government that put the budget in structural deficit after going on the most wasteful spending in the country’s history.

  142. Gratitude has the lowest evaporative temperature of any known substance. I think the ALP would’ve been aware of this when they made the decision to stimulate the economy. But they did it. Good on them.

  143. “AUSTRALIA’S most needless wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam, Rudd or Gillard Labor governments, a study has found.”

    Yes, so says Peter Martin the Howard hater. Henry Ergas has a different opinion of that IMF report. I actually read it. The Howard govt was not even mentioned.


    Bad enough that Martin described the paper as representing the views of the IMF, which a disclaimer on its front page prominently warns against doing. Even worse, he cannot have read the paper carefully. For had he done so, he would have spotted obvious problems with the conclusions he imputes to it.

    And there are lots of reports published all the time. Why did Martin pick on that one?? Use your brains for once mate. People hate Howard/Costello and tell lies about them for political purposes.

  144. Nil citing a Liberal urger from Murdoch’s Liberal Party house organ.

    What a joke you are, Nil.

  145. Medicare is unsustainable. We replace it with a system, that is less efficient and costs more. That makes sense????????

    Listening to Shepherd. All the report is based on ideology and prejudices. The ani one, is that if the lower income earners get something that is seen as free, they will rot it. Yes danger of rorting. No evidence put forward that this happens.

    Medicare needs to be thrown out because of what Shepherd and his ilk thinks will happen.

    Low income earners do pay tax, their labour adds to the countries wealth. They are entitled to a share of it.

  146. Yeah and you cite Martin , Stephen “pathological liar” Koukoulas, Bernard Keane et al.

    I downloaded that IMF report. The Howard govt was not even mentioned. It was actually talking about all govt levels, Federal, State and local. So why does Peter Martin refer to the Howard govt?? Because he is a partisan hack and a liar.

    During Howards time in power most State govts were Labor and they were getting into debt when the Howard govt was getting out of debt.

  147. Senator Dastyri has sprung the trap. Something abut Shepherd and slush funds. Does not agree that Transfield Services is in property developing.

    I suspect the senator has it correct.

  148. There are still senate hearing on health and the environment continuing if anyone is interest..

  149. Bad enough that Martin described the paper as representing the views of the IMF, which a disclaimer on its front page prominently warns against doing

    Can you highlight where Peter Martin claims this is a view of the IMF?

    The Howard govt was not even mentioned.

    No, probably because it wasn’t a political document, it just covered time periods. Our worst case of fiscal waste just happened to be under howards watch. Of course, you want to blame the states, just like howard, for our GDP?

  150. from that ridiculous article

    On that criterion, the Howard government was a paragon of fiscal virtue, with performance slipping subsequent to Kevin Rudd’s election.

    He obviously didn’t see any of those links nos put up earlier, as they all show the performance slipping halfway through howards tenure. After it started ramping up under Keating, to reach quite sustainable heights under howard, it began dropping sharply in the early to mid 2000’s. The only thing then keeping the yearly budget out of deficit was the high terms of trade. Once that started dropping, along with a GFC, the true structural damage was easy enough for all to see.

    Funnily enough, the media and libs wanted to ignore all of this during Labors years in office, while Labir futiley tried to wind it back, but all of a sudden, we ALL must pay to fix it, and it is somehow all Labors fault.

    I recall the howls of outrage when Labor attempted to wind back some middle class welfare for those over $150k. Now, $100k is apparently “the rich”, but we ALL have to pay, and, I am sure once the actual budget comes down, the ALL won’t be including those above $150k half as much as those well below that.

  151. Can you highlight where Peter Martin claims this is a view of the IMF?”

    Do you read your own links?? It said this at the beginning

    The International Monetary Fund study bills itself as the first to examine 200 years of government financial records across 55 leading economies.

    Martin provides a link to the paper. It says this at the beginning

    This Working Paper should not be reported as representing the views of the IMF.
    The views expressed in this Working Paper are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent those of the IMF or IMF policy. Working Papers describe research in progress by the author(s) and are published to elicit comments and to further debate.”

    So Martin writes about something that is not definite findings, Howard govt not even mentioned and gets things out of it only an economist would understand. And other economists most have a different opinion.

    And you believe Martins interpretation. You people are always attracted to lies and falsehoods.

  152. Oh and i just noted the comment at the bottom of Martins article. People must have complained because this note was not in the original article when published.

    Editor’s note:

    The IMF provided a disclaimer that the study did not necessarily represent the views of the IMF

    Peter Martin is just a Labor Party hack.

  153. The International Monetary Fund study

    Do you deny that it was a study done for the IMF? It is an IMF Working Paper? I’m not sure how else you would describe it? It has the IMF stamped all over it.

    You still haven’t shown where Martin said this represents the IMF’s views. All he said is that it was an IMF study. Do you dispute that?

  154. Who cares.

    All it shows is what scum Peter Martin is.

    Anything published anywhere by anybody which shows Howard in a bad light will be reported by Martin and followed up by his corrupt followers.

    The Editor even had to publish a disclaimer

    Editor’s note:

    The IMF provided a disclaimer that the study did not necessarily represent the views of the IMF

  155. The Editor even had to publish a disclaimer

    Yea, because some tool in hte murdoch stables can’t read. Why don’t you show me where Martin said what you and the murdoch hack claimed he did?

  156. And go one step further, show where the numbers are wong?

    Interestingly, the graphs you provided earlier pretty much support the findings, something both you and the murdoch hack seem oblivious to.

  157. I aboslutely loved this from hte murdoch hack

    Rather than help readers understand their limitations, it used selective reporting to indulge its dislike of the Howard government.

    them, accusing others of “selective”reporting ROFL (even though, the report, linked to from Martins article, was pretty succinct in it’s findings)

    I wonder if the murdoch hack knows what the term “flailing”means 😆

  158. Just for nos. Cos I know he loves this guy 😉

    What’s missing? Tax. The National Commission of Audit has decided not to consider it. That means also not considering something more fundamental: tax expenditures.

    Taxation expenditures are government programs that are delivered via tax breaks rather than by direct payments.

    Retirement is an example. The government supports well-off retirees via superannuation tax concessions. They cost $27 billion. It supports less well-off retirees by the pension. That costs $41 billion. The commission of audit comes down hard on the pensioners and lets off the superannuants scot-free.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/tax-the-flaw-at-the-heart-of-the-national-commission-of-audit-20140501-zr2oy.html#ixzz30WTokgkv

    I think we all know who the libs will be hitting harder when they say ALL 😉

  159. When are the right wingers going to call this government up for breaking promises. They love to go on about honesty and a particular lie, but here again we have a direct broken promise, this time by Truss.

    Just listening to the Country Hour on ABC and a spokesperson for agribusiness stated that during the election Abbott promised them $100 million in R&D. Not only is this $100 million now going whole swaths of other promised and long standing rural funds, including drought relief loans are also going or in the air.

    The spokesperson said that going through the Commission of Audit it was obvious the Commission didn’t understand how rural funding worked and their assertions in the report were wrong.

    So right wingers let’s see you being honest for once in your life and call this horrible government up for breaking promises, after all if Labor had partly reneged on a fraction of what Abbott has lied about you would be up in arms.

  160. it was obvious the Commission didn’t understand how rural funding worked

    It is obvious the chosen few who made the report understand only one thing, right wing ideology.

  161. Poor old Nil is turning intellectual somersaults in an attempt to make excuses for the laziest, most wasteful government in this country’s history, that left the budget in structural deficit after being in office during a period of extraordinary global prosperity backed up by the windfalls from a domestic minerals boom.

    Imagine how hard the old bore would be spinning if the Liberals had had a global metldown to contend with instead…

  162. It is good to see many journos actually doing what they refused to do during the Gillard years, read beneath the politics.

    In Abbott’s Team Australia, the weakest players must do the heaviest lifting

    By mapping out the benefits and services that it believes lower income families should lose, the audit is clearly unfair

    The way government could get the wealthy to share “pain” is through the tax system – for example through cutting back the $30bn in superannuation tax concessions they hand out each year and other benefits for those with lazy cash to funnel into investments through negative gearing.


  163. Interestingly, the graphs you provided earlier pretty much support the findings”

    That is sort of true if you can believe Treasury. The structural surplus was declining in the last few Codtello budgets but was in structural balance in Costello’s last budget.

    I wish Treasury did the same study from 1983-1996. I think Hawke/Keating had 10 deficit budgets and only 3 surplus budgets. And i bet you even the surplus budgets of Hawke/Keating were in structural deficit.

  164. Hmm – I think I see the problem! Neil has no idea what a structural deficit is 😯

  165. The structural surplus was declining in the last few Codtello budgets but was in structural balance in Costello’s last budget

    Going on one of the measures, perhaps (the others show differently, but very similar tractions), but it is indesputable that there was a rapid deteriation that set in during the howard years, during the economic good times, but by the time the GFC hit, it was well and truly buggered.

    You cannot blame Labor for a 10 year decline in our budgetary conditions when they were the opposition. You can blame them for being suckered into howards spending promise in the last election that sent it over the cliff, but with or without that, our budget had been well and truly knackered by then anyway.

    And then it all got compounded by the GFC, and the libs and their media mates started with their litany of lies.

  166. “You cannot blame Labor for a 10 year decline in our budgetary conditions when they were the opposition.”

    What 10 year decline???


    The graph shows a large and stable structural budget surplus until Costello’s third last budget after which the structural surplus declined. And who believes Treasury anyway??

    Interestingly the graph only starts in 2000. Why did it not start in 1980 so we can see what Hawke/Keating did.

    As Bachus mentioned before this structural deficit concept has been around for a while but Treasury under Swan only now looks into it. Interesting.

    And Treasury also said we would be in surplus now


    The four years of surpluses I announce tonight are a powerful endorsement of the strength of our economy, resilience of our people, and success of our policies.

  167. From a Crikey blog:

    The proposal to slash the minimum wage to 44% of average weekly earnings would not merely affect those one-in-six workers that now rely on the minimum wage. It would progressively affect all wage earners. If the floor rate is reduced, then those workers placed on rates just above the minimum would find their rates would also be reduced….and the next ranked would find their rates reduced too, and so on…In a context of a slack labour market (a certainty if this is enacted) such a wages crunch would be utterly inexorable.

    As well, because the reductions would cascade through the whole wages tier and of itself start to drag down the reference rate – the average weekly earnings – the minimum rate would keep on falling. We would experience compounding declines in real wages across the whole spectrum, just as has occurred in the US

    […] Chopping the wages floor would set in motion a very prolonged decline in real wages across the whole income spectrum – the exact opposite of what people expect. It would eventually mean that ALL the productivity gains of the digital revolution would be appropriated by capital.

    This is even worse than Work Choices, which set out to deregulate the labour market and to restrict workers’ rights to bargain. The Abbott/Hockey proposal would achieve wage cuts by legislative means and effectively taking away bargaining rights entirely. If accepted, this would be the first time any Australian Government has set out to reduce living standards as a deliberate policy goal.

    […] This is what lies at the cruel heart of Liberalism – a profoundly cynical hatred of working people.


  168. What 10 year decline?

    My bad, that only shows the 6 years of decline 😉

    Why did it not start in 1980 so we can see what Hawke/Keating did.

    I recall putting one up earlier that showed, after the massive drop during the recession we might not had to have it was steadily climbing back up, the howard got in, where it went up a little further, before beginning its decline again (possibly once the libs massive cuts from their first few budgets started bighting?)

  169. My bad, that only shows the 6 years of decline”

    No it doesn’t.

    It shows large structural and actual budget surpluses until Costello’s last two budgets. So it is a 2 year decline.

    “I recall putting one up earlier that showed, after the massive drop during the recession we might not had to have it was steadily climbing back up

    I would like to see that. I have always suspected that this was a politically motivated attack by Swan so i doubt the previous time Labor was in was even looked at.

  170. So it is a 2 year decline.

    It is a 2 year very rapid decline, but has declined sharply from 2000, with a small uptick in the middle

  171. cuppa
    May 2, 2014 @ 2:36 pm

    Looks like someone came to the same conclusion I did Cuppa 😉

    May 1, 2014 @ 6:56 pm

  172. Congratulations Tom, you were straight onto it last night – that reducing the minimum wage will cause the average wage figure to fall.

  173. It is a 2 year very rapid decline”

    So what?? Do you think Labor would have done any better?? And it was basically stable from 2000-2005. In 2001 the structural surplus was still 1% of GDP.

    That is if you can trust Treasury and i don’t.

    In case you have forgotten govt debt went from approx. 5% of GDP to 19% of GDP under Hawke/keating. They did not save a cent. And govt debt went from 0% GDP to 10% of GDP under Swan. And Swan did not save a cent.

    So we have had 19 years of ALP governments with not a cent being saved.

    And you lot have the hide to give lessons on budgetary management.

  174. So what?

    I think that sums it up. You just don’t care that howard and costello trashed our economy.

  175. “You just don’t care that howard and costello trashed our economy.

    Now i know you are a liar.

    19 years of Hawke/keating and Rudd/Gillard and not a cent saved.

    11 years of Howard/Costello and we saved $180B.

    And Treasury never told Costello about any structural deficit because the calculations were done after he left office.

    And if he was told he may have altered his policies. You act on information available.

    Swan had the information in 2009 and did not act on it but kept giving tax cuts.

    But there was no structural deficit anyway during Costello’s time. It is just an invention by evil and immoral Labor supporters.

  176. you were straight onto it last night

    Well, I am not be any ways a math genius, but common sense tells you pretty clearly the ramifications of what they are proposing.

    So, either they are pretty stupid (I don’t think they are), or they think we are.

    With all of the reports, which, surprisingly, have been pretty good from what I have seen, I haven’t yet seen an article highlighting his.

    But, there is so much both to be afraid of, and also just wrong, with this report, that I’m prepared o give them some time 😉

    I also don’t think, from how it looks at the moment, that the press will let it distract from whatever is actually in the budget.

    At the moment, it really looks like lose lose for them. They either put it in hte budget, which everyone will hate, else everyone is now well aware of what they really want, and what they wanted all along.

  177. Nil doesn’t care that the Liberals were the most wasteful government in history. He doesn’t care that we’re now stuck with a structural deficit thanks to Howard and Costello. He doesn’t care how many lies he tells or how many people he accuses of lying.

    Love is blind, but dumb partisan loyalty is blinder.

  178. Shoren playing it pretty well too

    This Commission of Audit is a blueprint for the Government’s broken promises. Labor gets that we need to always try and improve our fiscal position but we should do it over the medium term. We are not buying this argument that there’s some Budget emergency. After all, Australia’s one of the few countries, less than 10 in the world, who have a AAA credit rating. There is not an emergency which would justify taking the axe to medescpar some of the other drastic solutions this Government is claiming needs to be done.


  179. “Nil doesn’t care that the Liberals were the most wasteful government in history.”

    And Cuppa does not care about bearing false witness against me.

    And when anyone says anything bad about Costello you believe it. And about that IMF report.

    Editor’s note:

    The IMF provided a disclaimer that the study did not necessarily represent the views of the IMF

  180. Tom,

    Yes, their miserable philosophy is laid bare with this audit document. Labor can use this against them again and again in the years ahead. They will cry “Scare campaign!” but it will be based on facts: what they actually want and plan to do.

  181. We are not buying this argument that there’s some Budget emergency. After all, Australia’s one of the few countries, less than 10 in the world, who have a AAA credit rating.

    And what the hell would Shorten know.

    19 years of Labor govts and not a cent saved.

  182. not a cent saved.

    Why would a Government want to save our tax dollars? They should invest them. As Labor do, in future proofing our economy.

    Taxing too much and then churning that back into election bribes does not future proof economies. It leaves them exposed, as ours could become.

  183. The most stupendous global prosperity in history, supplemented by an enormous domestic mining boom … and the Liberals still left office with $57 billion gross debt and the budget in structural deficit.

  184. what they actually want and plan to do.

    And they exposed it all themselves.

    murdoch is trying to lipstick it, but I think even this is too blatant and arrogant for most people to ignore.

  185. and the Liberals still left office with $57 billion gross debt and the budget in structural deficit.

    Shush cuppa. We only speak of gross debt when it is Labor. It is the murdoch way 😉

  186. Why would a Government want to save our tax dollars? They should invest them

    That is what Labor supporters believe.

    But you need surplus budgets to keep a triple A credit rating.

  187. Taxing too much and then churning that back into election bribes does not future proof economies. It leaves them exposed, as ours could become.

    The Liberals also left us with an infrastructure deficit after their self-serving waste-athon.

  188. But you need surplus budgets to keep a triple A credit rating.

    Under Labor for the first time Australia got the Triple-A rating with all three ratings agencies.

    This never happened under the wasteful Liberals.

  189. Why aren’t you people addressing the current woeful government, all its considerable failures in record short time, its record amount of broken promises with two more just today and a leader so terrible even his own can’t stomach him.

    You keep going back over the same old crap Neil has bought up so many times and does so for one reason only, diversion away from his beloved leader, the one he adores so much, but can’t face he’s in love with an utter dud. The worst PM, the most terrible leader and the greatest liar this country has seen.

    Address that and ignore Neil if he won’t directly address that without referring back to Labor past with his own lies, distortions and deliberate misunderstanding of the facts.

  190. Well, in my defense ME, I thought I had raised a few pertinent points about this audit of greed 😉

  191. Ask Neil, as he was so eager to give us information on Labor corruption, about the current NSW ICAC findings that have seen another State Liberal minister stand aside, the most senior one yet?

    A commission setup by Liberals purely to bring down Labor but has now caught five of their own and is indirectly implicating Abbott.

    On top of the previous links to Abbott it now it turns out that his hand picked head of his Commission of Audit, the sham it is, has also been caught by ICAC. He made an illegal donation to the Liberal party through the slush fund now bringing down those other State Liberals.

    And why is a person who donates to the Liberal party heading a supposed independent Commission. That’s a direct conflict of interest, as is having Vanstone on it. If Labor put Union bosses in Commissions they ran the outcry would be incessant, and the likes of the gormless Neil would be at the head of the condemnation, but stacking them with overt and covert Liberals seems to be OK with the hypocrites.

    But instead Neil is mute on the current goings on with the Liberals and constantly harks back to Labor past, and does so for one reason only, to avoid facing the failings of the party he so blindly and mindlessly follows.

  192. Neil, you must be getting giddy on that merry go around you are on How many times do you intend to go around, until you mover onto something else.

    Whyte not comment on the fact, another Lib has fallen today.

    Neil, it does not matter how many times you repeat things, the facts still remain the same. Nothing changes.

  193. Mr Hockey commission Mr Shepherd to produce a study or audit for him., Mr, Hockey now has that document All 5 kilos of it. Mr Hockey is saying that document does not necessarily reflect his views. Yes, that document was created by the IMF, or for it. They are saying that at that time, a decision has not5 been made on their opinion of it.

    Have you any evidence that they rejected the proposal.

  194. Wow ME, that entire audit HAS to be thoroughly trashed now. Independant ROFL

    The head of the government’s Commission of Audit made a $1,500 donation to the Liberal party which was allegedly paid into a slush fund currently being examined by the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Icac).

    Audit chief claims he can’t remember making $1,500 political donation alleged to have been paid to a fund under Icac scrutiny


    Perhaps it’s time the libs moved away from old guys with white hair and blue ties. None of them can remember anything it seems.

    How bloody corrupt is this whole process?

  195. It is not the role of government to save money., It is their role to provide good governance by ensuring the necessary infrastructure is in place for

    There is more to life than debt and deficits. More to good governance than that.

    if I borrow to put through the y the pokies, that could be seen as stupid. If I borrow to renovate my home and fix the roof, that could be seen as prudent.

    Trouble is, Howard did little for the nation during his 12 years in power. That is how I judge his government. Not on money spent. Not on money borrowed. On money invested in the future, and the results it brings.

    Even Shepherd said today, we have a highly educated and skilled work force, but the money spent on innovation to industry has shown no results. Therefor this money should cease.

    Whose fault that this money has been wasted. I would say, industry. They have the money, they have a workforce with skills. Labour productivity has been growing, Share of profit going to capital has risen,. With all this, they are still failing.

  196. “But you need surplus budgets to keep a triple A credit rating.”

    Who says so ?

  197. Well it sems Labor got the AAA ratings from three agencies, in spite of he debt.

    Neil, does that not tell you something Debt s not necessary bad,. In fact, in todays economy, is essential. What matters if one can service it or not,

    We are a wealthy country that can,

    We are also a small government that will go backwards, if we do not use all at our fingertips to invest in the future.

    That is what Labor’s debt was about.

  198. Also that high dollar did not act as was expected. Still has not gone down far enough.

  199. Abbott’s trip to Indonesia called off. It appears we are involved in another on water incidence.

    Good day for the Libs, both fed and state.

    He was invited to go by the Indonesians.

    By the way, according to that audit, it is costing 10 billion for the present asylum policies.

  200. So now it’s now longer “heavy lifting for all” but the new Hockey slogan is “call to arms”.

    What the fuck Joe? “A call to arms,” really, invoking military terms to distract from your budgetary stuff ups, deliberate or otherwise. Pissed off that you have been caught out and called out on deliberately blowing $68 billion of public money to make the budget position worse than it is and now making everyone suffer because of your

    Then I hope the people to take up Hockey’s latest slogan and take up arms against him and his constant stream of lies. The ones he came out with today were so blatant that he could only get away with them because he was being interviewed by a rabid right winger.

    And now we have two more White Papers announced by Abbott. Please people, even you right wingers, enough is enough from this mob surely. You were up in arms over the enquiries Rudd announced in his first six months, but they were but a piddling amount as compared to the record number and size of the ones this government currently have in the pipeline.

    You can’t keep being hypocrites and ignore things you were so stridently against with the previous government but are far worse in this government.

    The simple fact is if you don’t speak out against this governments failings and string of broken promises, along with their lies, when you were so forward in supposedly upholding honesty and integrity when attacking the last government then you can never have any credibility in attacking Labor again, none whatsoever.

  201. “That’s the “big” myth blown

    The conventional wisdom on the side of politics that is big spending and big taxing has been dramatically turned on its head with the 2012-13 budget.

    The facts in the budget papers show undeniably that the Labor side of politics is able to deliver smaller government through low spending and taxing as a share of the economy. The Coalition parties, conversely, err……….. ”

  202. If you can catch it watch the grilling of the head of the Commission of Audit by the Senate Committee. iView might be showing it.

    When he was asked simple questions on how something he had proposed would work and it’s impact he didn’t know. On Senator shot back that it’s just a thought bubble. Abbott’s brain farts are infectious.

    And as further proof the whole thing is a sham a review was only allowed of the 5kg document overnight and then only after a challenge had been made to do so. Initially the government would not allow a review at all.

    As I stated earlier Agribusiness has gone through it and have stated it’s obvious the Commission hasn’t a clue how agribusiness runs in this country yet here they are making recommendations that have the potential to destroy it.

    What a joke and they expect us to take this sham of a report seriously and an entire budget predicated on making the nation, except for the rich, suffer on thought bubbles.

  203. “Trouble is, Howard did little for the nation during his 12 years in power.”

    Do you have any evidence for this??

    The Coalition started up APRA. This organisation stopped our banks giving sub prime loans like other countries did.

    Your comment just makes me believe that your are corrupt and immoral people.

    I really do not understand why you people are so dishonest.

  204. Well unemployment was high from 1983-1996. In fact Keating as PM went to an election with unemployment at 11%. I remember this because i was one of the unemployed. By the way Keating won with 11% out of work.

    Howard took unemployment from 8% to 4% and anybody who wanted a job could get one.

    You have to go back to the 1970’s to find unemployment at 4%

  205. What do you think of the extreme number of LIES and backflips by the Abbott government Neil? Are you a hypocrite as well as being clueless? 😉

  206. “By the way Keating won with 11% out of work.”

    By the way it should be stated that only an ALP govt could win an election with unemployment at 11%.

    Just shows you that facts are irrelevant.

  207. Neil, not bothering to explain my position, as you will only tell me I* am corrupt. To do so, isd a waste of time.

    Now, instead of talking about Howard, you have gone beck to Keating. It is the same when asked about Abbott, you go back to the previous government.

    Even Howard has lately acknowledge that Keating did much that was good.

    There is so much going on with this government, that one has trouble keeping up. All yoyo want to do, is talk about, whet is now becoming ancient history.

    I wonder if Abbott has created a crisis so he does not have to go to Indonesia. Would have found it hard to refuse the invitation. I am sure he was not looking forwarded to eating humble pie. Not long to the Indonesian election, Abbott might rather deal with the new mob.

  208. FU

    Why don’t you wait for the May budget before you start with the abuse??

    By the way the only thing i thought that keating did was good was Superannuation.

    But like most ALP programs it is not working. People are cashing in their lump sum payments, spending the lot, and then going on the pension.

    Nothing the ALP does actually works.

  209. NoS, “Howard took unemployment from 8% to 4% and anybody who wanted a job could get one. ” …and all was thus because of Keating……. NoS please…please…please….. do try to keep up 🙄

  210. Neil, who mentioned the budget. I am sure I did not. To busy keeping up what is occurring each day.

  211. Abbott claimed the other day, he got rid of the baby bonus. Said it more than once. I thought it was Labor that repealed that one of Howard. Just confirmed on Lateline, I was right. I think that Abbott meant to say, school kids bonus. Wonder why no one picked him up on it. In fact there was a outcry when that one went.

  212. Ah Keating, did someone mention Keating???

    This was the unemployment rate under Keating

    Sept-Dec 1991- 10.1, 10.0, 10.2, 10.4
    Jan-Dec 1992- 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 11.2
    Jan-Dec1993- 10.9, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 10.8, 11.0, 10.8, 11.0, 10.7, 10.9, 10.8, 10.6
    Jan-April 1994- 10.4, 10.3, 10.3, 10.1

    Thirty months of DD unemployment. WOW what an achievement.

    And Keating went to an election with unemployment at 11% and won.

    Please do not tell me lefties that facts are relevant otherwise you would have voted for John Hewson.

  213. Super would be working, if Howard, and now Abbott continued with what was planned.

    It was Howard that gave the rebates etc, to middle and upper incomer earners, not Keating.

    It was Gillard that attempted to claw Howard’s excesses back. It is not pensions that are the trouble.

    Neil, do you really believe that homes of $750.000 should be included in the assert test for the pension. That would include most homes. A figure of a couple of million or more, would be more sensible.

    Do you really think people vote to see Medicare dismantled. Did not hear that promise.

    Neil. do you really believe, or maybe care, that the minimum wage should be reduce by 140 dollars per week That in reality, means a similar cur for all wages.

    What do you bvelieve would happen to the economy, if Abbott went along with this cut.

    Neil, re you saying we should not be talking about Abbott’s stunt, the Audit Commission and we have to wait until budget night,

    Abbot put it out there. Discussion is more than warranted. When do you intend to talk about this government. I suspect, never.

  214. Well it work, when they took us through the GFC. Better than most other countries. Worked very well. Managed to leaver us with an economy, that many other countries tell us is miraculous, Today we still have that AAA rating from the three agencies. I do wonder for how much longer.

  215. “When do you intend to talk about this government. I suspect, never.”

    I am waiting for the May budget.

    But they have stopped the boats. But it will take years to empty the concentration camps that Rudd/Gillard started.

  216. Keating set Howard up with an golden opportunity…… and all Howard could do was squander,…. which is proof, NoS, that Howard thought about Howard and nought else…. but hey, that’s RWingers for you…… it’s all about me-e-e-e-e. If Howard had kept to Keatings plan then we would not even be talking, today, about ‘working to 70’ or “what are we gunna do with the boomers”…… another of Howard deficit’s, NoS.
    It will take ‘our’ country a long time to get over the damage caused by Howard and Costalotto……. and now we’ve got idiot boy abbott, 😡 ……………………………… poor fella my country 😦

  217. Stop the boats. Seems not. there is a crisis at this time re a boat on the water, that is preventing out PM from going to Indonesia next week. Cost apart from relations with countries in the region, 10 billion dollars. Yes, some success. Then a murder or two, and serous injuries to asylum seekers, does not count.

  218. “Keating set Howard up with an golden opportunity

    Keating was a fool who could only produce double digit unemployment when PM. For you to believe that he would have done what Howard did shows you are a fool also. Would Keating have done this??


    It took a Parliament House riot to get the budget back into surplus.

  219. That is my opinion of you lot.

    To believe that the ALP would have done what Howard/Costello did from 1996-2007 shows you are totally delusional.

  220. Neil, for once I have to agree with you. I do not believe that Labor would have indulged in the middle/upper income welfare that Howard did. Welfare plus tax cuts to upper income earners, that led to the budget structural deficits.

    Neil, we are once again back where you began. Going to go round again, or maybe give it a rest.

  221. Spot on Fu. No way Labor would have followed the inept / lazy Howard / Costello blueprint. Labor would have been a competent government 😉

  222. “LOL you are the most delusional puppet I’ve ever come across Neil

    Delusional?? This is delusional


    The four years of surpluses I announce tonight are a powerful endorsement of the strength of our economy, resilience of our people, and success of our policies………This Budget delivers a surplus this coming year, on time, as promised, and surpluses each year after that, strengthening over time……….Surpluses that provide a buffer against global uncertainty, and continue to give the Reserve Bank room to cut interest rates for families like it did just last week.”

    And Wayne Swan made that statement when he knew that there was a structural deficit which he created and had the power to do something about the structural deficit which did not exist under Costello

  223. So how about those changes Costello made to super in the 2006 budget that mean people can now spend all their super and the claim a pension Neil. That was good policy, hey?

  224. Where do AAA ratings come from Neil? Can you get them while you’re in deficit? How come? Are these the same ratings agencies that were complicit in the causes of the GFC?

    So many questions Neil. Why don’t you seek answers for yourself? Are you really that intellectually barren? Why does EVERYONE laugh AT you Neil? Is ther a self induced cure for your malady?

  225. Howard is the only treasurer I know that created stagnation., Yes, high inflation, high unemployment; Left a massive black hole for treasurer Keating to fill. Yes, Keating only managed to bring things under control when he lost the election as PM. The economy was well on the way to be in a healthy state, in 1996, when Howard one that election.

    Yes, Howard, the second PM to lose an election and his seat. The first was Bruce. Both upset the people by interfering with industrial laws.

    Neil, the message that you ignore, is not all deficits or debt is bad. Sometimes it is necessary.

    One cannot judge the economy or any government based on debt alone, as you try to do. That is why one can never agree with you. You base your opinion on false assumptions. That is why one can get AAA ratings, while the budget is in deficit. \\Why do you have such hate for Labor. It seems to be an obsession with you. Is it your background, or did some Labor person do the dirty on you. Ir seems to be very personal with you.

  226. Labor made big attempts to claw back much of that middle income welfare. it was fought all the way by Abbott. The Greens did not help at times.

    Same goes for the asylum seeker problem Labor was not allowed by the Greens and Abbott to put any plans or scheme in place. I am not saying I agree with the plans or if they had the right answers. We will never know, because they were thwarted at every turn,. That include what they expert panel came up with, led by Houston, Abbott’s hero at this time, seeking the missing plane.

    Neil, no party or government is perfected. Cannot be, as one cannot see into the future. One makes decisions and hopes for the best, The Labor government was better than most.

    I believe that Abbott’s statement that he will bring nothing in, including tax, unless taken to a election, is a stupid and misguided attitude toi take, I will probably be howled down by many, This idea that PM can only put in place what they promise, and nothing can be changed does not make sense.

    Before an election ,we expect parties to give us some idea of what they intend to do.

    In reality, we elect them to govern. Yes govern., That means we entrust to them the power to do and act in our best interest. to do what needs doing.

    No one knows what the coming three years they are in power is going to throw up. GFC come out of the blue. One expects the government’s to react to changed circumstances.

    What we do not like, is being told they are doing one thing, and immediately after they get in power do the opposite. If one intends to get rid of all Industrial laws, as Howard tried after his first election, then when he gained control of both houses. Like Abbott intends to do wit Medicare, and every other government body. That we should be told,

    That has nothing to do with the economy or changed circumstances It is pure dogma and ideology

    Labor was trending towards a surpluses. Thanks to world events and that high dollar, did not get there. They were pulling back on expenditure. There were years of efficiency dividends put on the PS.

    Labor was not a high spending, taxing government. All figures and graphs prove that,

    The biggest mistake it made, was to allow itself to be pulled into the deficit and surplus shit. Should never had made that promise, even if they thought they would get there.

    What counts, is employment and inflation. Both were under control. Yes, and there was continuous growth, albeit not always large. They allowed these successes to be blurred and hidden by going along with saying they could get a surplus. That was stupid. Was not necessary.

  227. “Are these the same ratings agencies that were complicit in the causes of the GFC?”

    Yeah, i think they gave Lehman Brothers a AAA rating just before the company collapsed.

  228. What about all the Lieberals caught out by ICAC Neil?

    […] How do feel about having to be 75 before you can get a pension Neil?

    Nil is wriggling like hell to distract from what’s going on at the moment with corrupt Liberals going down like ninepins, and the worst federal government since Federation.

    He would rather talk about the past and try to make excuses for the government (Howard’s) that was the most wasteful in history and left the budget in structural deficit.

    By harking back to an indefensible past he thinks he can take the spotlight off the shit the Lieberals are in today.

    Will Joe Hockey ever deliver a surplus budget Neil? Should he? Why, or why not?

    The fat t*rd said he would deliver a surplus in their first year and every year after that.

    He lied, of course. He’s a Lieberal.

    Stephen Koukoulas, 23 September 2013:

    …In a National Press Club speech in 2012, Hockey as Shadow Treasurer promised that “we will achieve a surplus in our first year in office and we will achieve a surplus for every year of our first term”. In January this year, he followed up saying that “our commitment [to budget surpluses] was emphatic” and that “we will deliver a surplus in our first year and every year after that.”

    Tony Abbott agreed at the time, saying “we believe we can deliver surpluses in each year of the first term of a Coalition government”.


  229. From the comments I see that Neil is avoiding addressing this current government, it’s lies, string of record broken promises and Liberals caught up in corruption. Remember Abbott is also corrupt.

    It proves Neil is not worth the air he breaths and will do and say anything to protect his defective and wanton party. He has no credibility whatsoever and is not worth the effort.

  230. I wonder what the bought and paid for commission of audit thought of this

    From July next year, earnings of more than $100,000 on superannuation pensions and annuities will be taxed at 15 per cent instead of being tax-free.


    For an example of the kind of reporting Labor received in contrast to the lipstick being applied now

    <i.To dress this up in the best political light, Swan would need to once again reach into his well developed class warfare grab-bag and show that the changes will only hit the "wealthy", leaving the average working superannuation saver unaffected.


    compared to

    AUSTRALIA’S pension entitlement age will rise to 70 from 2035, almost 20 years earlier than the Commission of Audit recommended, Joe Hockey has announced.


    Straight down the line, no “comment” or leading language. Ignoring entirely the broken promise aspect of the announcement, or to even consider how people above 65 will be ABLE to work.

    It is a striking comparison. And yet, some people still wonder why Labor could not “get their message” out. Bizarre.

  231. Neil. you could be correct about the agencies. Even so if your ratings are poor, no one

    Yes, that is why projections rarely deliver.

    Neil, I do wish I could share your faith, that this government will deliver a budget, that does not send the country into free fall. Budgets, formulated on dogma and ideology always lead to disaster. We can only hope this government is al bluster, that they are to lazy and incompetent to put their plans into operation., Sadly, I cannot find that optimist in myself.

    Neil, I never wanted to be wrong, so much in my life.

    Neil, do you realise mot only are the polls still d4roppinbg for Abbott, they are now dropping when if comes to business competence. This should be the opposite whasn pone sees they world economy growing.

    Neil, I think you will find, we will be going against worlds trend.

    If Abbott and co get a surplus, it will be short lived. Budgets still consist of spending and receipts. If one kills the receipts, the budget will quickly go into deficit.

    Neil, please be correctly, this time.

  232. will do and say anything to protect his defective and wanton party.

    On the upside though ME, every time he raises it, we get to expose just how poor his heroes really were.

    It really is becoming a “user pays” system isn’t it

    TRAVELLERS who get into trouble overseas could be forced to pay hundreds of dollars extra to get help from government officials


  233. Abbott thinking of adding another tax, this one a travel tax.

    For a man who said no new taxes and no increase in taxes he’s certainly bringing in lots of them.

    Wonder what Neil thinks of that. Abbott in part won government on his promises on taxes but is not just breaking that promise he’s smashing it by introducing a raft of new and increased taxes.

    And that doesn’t even get into his broken promises on pensions, education, health and the list goes on.

    As I stated if Labor did the merest fraction of that, like bringing in a small levy to help disaster victims, the hypocrite Neil and the other right wingers would be screaming blue murder and calling for them to be sacked. Yet here we have the greatest string of broken promises in the shortest time in our history, overtaking Newman as we predicted, and the right wingers are completely mute yet still hark back to Labor.

  234. they gave Lehman Brothers a AAA rating just before the company collapsed.

    But the ratings agencies had assumed that the companies were not lying to them about what their packages contained. Are you implying that our Treasury was lying about its figures (of course that is a rhetorical question, as we know nil thinks everyone not liberal lies, it was more to highlight the stupidity of the argument he is mounting)

  235. Dole to be replaced by Youth Allowance for those under 25 meaning nearly $100 less per fortnight.

    What it also means is more crime and a deterioration in the well being of our society, which will be blamed on the States. This is also something Howard did.

    Of course it’s no coincidence that the States are moving towards Labor governments and Abbott is also forcing the current States to sell off everything that isn’t bolted down.

    No matter how bad I thought this Abbott government was going to be when they got elected, and in their first month called them the worst ever here and got canned for it, they are immeasurably far worst than my worst nightmares.

  236. It’s supposed to be a Newspoll weekend. With all that’s going on, it’s likely to be a shocker for the Lieberals. The media will no doubt give cursory coverage to results, try to bury it beneath sport and celebrity stories.

  237. If you think you feel ripped off ME, you should be hearing the pensioners on call back stations.

    These are the one who bought the murdoch cool aid before the election that told how poorly Labor were treating them (even though they did better under labor) Well, they are aware now, and not happy.

    Will they still be as mad in three years time though? That is the gamble the libs are playing.

  238. The credibility of the NSW government has been hanging by a thread since the resignation of premier Barry O’Farrell last month.

    […] So while the parliamentary wing of the Liberals is reeling, party head office in William Street is likely to be under siege as well.

    It’s hard to imagine a more difficult situation for a political organisation less than a year out from an election.


  239. Just heard a piece on Paid Parental Leave from a university professor talking on ABC News Breakfast.

    First the current scheme is working very well. it’s simple and effective. Where it fall short for high income earning mothers businesses are topping up the shortfall as part of the employee’s contract.

    Being yet another successful Labor policy of course it must be destroyed, even if it’s replaced be a worse policy, and so we have Abbott’s non-consultative brain fart of PPL.

    So Abbott is implementing a very generous scheme that is in part paid for by a 1.5% levy on companies earning over $5 million, around 3000 companies. This is not enough and the significant shortfall must still come from general revenue that Abbott said was fully funded during the election, but is now saying isn’t.

    So here’s the crunch in the stupidity of his brain fart.

    Most of those big companies getting hit with the 1.5% levy top up the current PPL in contracts with their employees. The employees, because it is in the contract they negotiated, will keep that top up. So the companies are getting a double hit, the 1.5% levy and their contracted top up with their high paid employees.

    The high paid employees are laughing all the way to the bank. And guess who they support and vote for, and wouldn’t be surprised are the right wingnuts commenting across blogs about how great Abbott is without actually telling us what it is that makes him great.

  240. Abbott’s PPL brainfart dwarfs Labor’s carbon tax, both in its impost and the number of companies affected.

    The companies will of course pass the cost down the chain so we all end up paying for his idiocy.

    And unlike Labor’s policy, there’s no compensation.

    In addition if they get their carbon reduction sham-plan through the Senate, we’ll also be paying for that – with the money going to the Liberals’ polluter mates.

  241. For the next hour on ABC 24 they are talking about the coming plans for the pension, and the lifting of the age limit.

    I have just listened to a Professor Rafferty, an economist, , of the university of Sydney, I think. He was talking about the Audit report on plans for the age. Yes, an outlook that this government appears to support.

    He said that up to now, one felt that after a lifetime of work and paying taxes, one felt the where entitled to a supported but moderate standard of living in their retirement, This is o longer the case, the pensioner is to be viewed as a welfare cheat.

    He said this is unfair, and not realistic. Only one in five, no matter what, will be able to amass enough money to support themselves in retirement. Yes, one in five.

    What is being proposed, is the retirement age be raised. On that one, any saving will be very illusory indeed. It is not only ones physical body that slows down. Ones mental ability, along with emotional state also decreases over time. One is simply not able to keep up with the stress with the present work place. A prime example of this, is the mess that the younger Bishop is making as speaker of the lower house. Ones reactions slow down in any area.

    What one will find, many will not be able to work, or find work that meets with their abilities. They will still need to be supported by the state. Same as now, many will be on New Start, sickness or disability, until they reach retirement age. Many will do as I did, rely on what small super I managed to amassed. I found that it was impossible for me to continue, o0wing to the stress of my work. Yes, work I loved, to make I worse.

    We now find, not only is the age to be raised but the home, with a value od half a million is to be taken into consideration for the asset test. Yes, this is a the price of a low costed home. Something that most low paid workers, over a life time, has gone without and struggled to pay for. Most see this home, as giving them some security in now one gets. In the future, the pension will be expected to take out a reverse mortgage, to supplement the pension. Something that has worked nowhere in the world. Something that is very expensive to do. That home will no longer there, to allow any children, on low incomes to get their leg on the ladder to owning their own home.

    Pensions will also be indexed different than they are today. On this indexation, if in place now would mean I would be $96 dollars a fortnight worse off. Yes, that is what I gained from the changes that Rudd introduced.

    At the same time, all rebates and government topping up of super to the wealthy, will remain in place. This amounts to $40 billion a year. The same amount that is paid out on pensions. Many of these still collect full pensions, or at least enough,, to ensure they get that, what they see, valuable pension concession card.

    Now maybe some will be OK with what this government is aiming for. I agree with the professor, it does not make economic sense. It is treating pensioners as welfare cheats.

    I see that Mr Dutton is now out, telling us how great private health insurance is. He expects all but those on benefits to take out private insurance, as they will no longer have access to Medicare. As one who had a family before Medibank, to Medicare, private insurance does not work. If they do not, they will be charged three times the present Medicare levy.

    These plans are not about the economy. They are about the ideology and dogma of this government. it is not needed to do as they say, fix the budget.

    Do we want a world, where people do not count. Where a civil and kid society is not what one strives for.

    There are many other ways, of bringing a budget back into line, than punishing the most needy. Yes, even if Labor did not reach a surplus, that deficit was slowly trending down. Yes, this is the way to do it. Creating unemployment, or risking inflation helps no one.

    Neil, that is what many here are talking about. We are with tis government, facing the biggest social change this country has ever seen.

    Neil, we are unable to shut up, wait as you say, until the budget. We do not see a option, of shutting up, and rely on changing his government at the next election, in a little over two years. Yes, Neil, many feel we need to talk out now. Waiting will be too late.


  242. ME. Abbott said that levy on big business would only be temporary. When the budget was fixed, it would revert to the taxpayer.

    Also all business will be able, in fact expected to, drop the maternity leave schemes that they now have Yes, all industry based schemes will disappear.

    I suspect many wealthy women will be worse off under Abbott’s PPL. He says it is a workplace benefit, not welfare. Then Abbott removes the existing workplace schemes from the workplace. Does that make sense.

  243. The “No changes to the pension” promise doesn’t mean anything to hockey.

    Should Joe find himself out of a job and down on his luck along the track a bit, he’ll be eligible to apply for an old-age pension at 69 – a privilege that will be denied all those born after Joe’s lucky birth year.

    If his parents had – how do we say this delicately? – held off for just a few months back there in the swinging ’60s and little Joe had arrived in 1966, he’d have to hold off himself on applying for a pension until he was 70.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/jolly-joe-hockey-the-happy-1965-baby-20140502-zr3gf.html#ixzz30bYHzMb6

  244. Labor should record that senate hearings with Shepherd yesterday, onto a DVD and drop it in every mailbox.

    We now know what this mob means by waste. All that helps and supports the community, is seen as waste. All welfare, education and health spending by government is waste.

  245. Also all business will be able, in fact expected to, drop the maternity leave schemes that they now have

    But not enforced? I am sure those fighting for the top jobs won’t be tempted to offer an …”enticement” 😉

    How the hell can an argument be even contemplated where 70 year olds are skiving off the system, and highly paid mothers need Government hand outs?

    It is a result of a totally debased media environment where colour and movement trumps facts every time. Thanks murdoch

  246. I was under the impression, that the Productivity Commission recommended a more generous PPL scheme that Gillard produced. I believe it was watered down because of the state of the budget. Yes, Gillard is being condemned or acting in a prudent manner.

    Yes, politics is the art of the possible. Something I hope this government soon learns, before it takes us down the path of destruction. They seem to believe they can ignore the public and advice of all experts, putting into place their dreams, their ideology, their dogma. They believe all will be forgiven in two years. They are even saying, they will be taking most of this rubbish to the next election.

  247. There is no reason why the present PPL schema cannot be extended, if necessary. .

    Yes, leave the plight of the wealthy up to the workplace, where they are already well looked after.

    Yes, that is what one would do, if one really believed it was a workplace benefit, like annual leave.

  248. Gillard’s PPL unlike Abbott’s. was never meant to replace workplace schemes. It was meant to look after those who did not benefited from suitable workplace schemes.

  249. Do not treat this government as not being capable of introducing their plans. They are rat cunning, and have no morals that gets in the way of carrying out their plans.

    They know exactly what they are up to. The believe the public is too stupid to wake up, until too late.

  250. At last the ABC 24 is now saying the NSW government is in crisis.

    Plenty of negatives about the Federal government as well. A PM who cannot accept the invitation of a near leader, because he will emabbarassed by those orange boats being towd back into their wars.

    It seems the asylum seekers are still coming.

    Has the ten billion been well spent.

    If we went to the region, and bought the lot in, we would benefit, first from their skills and labour, as well as not paying the cost of turning back boats.

    Thanks to Indonesia changing their visa process, there are many fewer now coming into the region. I suspect we could cope easily, taking all that are there now waiting. NO need for Manus or Nauru. No need for expensive detention centres, that give people no hope.

    Yes the PM should be going to Indonesia next week to discus such plans. The Indonesians have played their part. They have slowed down the number coming into the region.

  251. Does one realise, I believe under 25 kids only get the dole, if their parents income is low enough. Yes, it is he parent that pay, not the state.

  252. One needs to keep in mind, when to comes to business, Abbott is getting rid of all tape of all colours. Yes, all the regulations that protect the people and environment are gone or going. Business will have a free go, too as they like.

    Same goes for all bodies set up to advise government and allow the community to have a say, have met similar fate.

  253. I wonder Dutton will expect the employer to pickup the tab for their workers health insurance, as exists in the USA. Yes, considered a workplace benefited.

  254. “Also all business will be able, in fact expected to, drop the maternity leave schemes that they now have Yes, all industry based schemes will disappear.”

    Not according to the professor on ABC. If existing workplace contracts are in place they are legal and cannot be dropped until the contract runs out. It means there will be a period where the company is both paying the 1.5% levy and the current top up.

  255. “Why do you have such hate for Labor”

    Because Labor policies never work. Look what you people did to our borders. Rudd abolished the Pacific Solution allowing thousands of people to buy their way into Australia while thousands of people in UNHCR camps were locked out.

    Even Superannuation is not working. People are spending their lump sum payouts and then going on the pension. Super was supposed to stop people going on the people.

    And the other reason i hate Labor is that its supporters are liars. The worst liar is Stephen Koukoulas. Of course you people always link to him. Like attracts like.

  256. Worst govt ever??

    They are starting to bring fairness back into our humanitarian program.

    Instead of taking people like Reza Berati who risked and lost his life because he could not get a job in his chosen profession in Iraq we are now going to be taking refugees from UNHCR camps.

    I don’t think you people care about the thousands of lives you have destroyed and the billions of dollars wasted because you lot abolished the Pacific Solution.

  257. The figures just do not add up. Remember that Gillard was lawing back spending until mid last year. Yes, still going after that illusive surplus. They were forced to reconsider, slow down their quest, as their actions were taking the economy into downfall,

    Why would not the same for this government.

    ………….The biggest problem is that the report does not say which proposals would save a lot of money, and which only a little.

    Proposals such as increasing the age pension and superannuation access ages, which Grattan Institute analysis suggests is worth around A$12 billion a year to the budget, are mixed in with a Medicare co-payment for doctors’ visits, which is worth about $1 billion a year at most (and is a bad idea for other reasons).

    Without an assessment of budgetary impact, the extensive discussion about duplication between state and Commonwealth governments glosses over the fact that there are no massive budget savings to be made in this area. Abolishing the entire Commonwealth health department would save less than half a billion dollars a year, which isn’t going to do much to fix a deficit that currently sits at $47 billion.

    And without a bottom-up evaluation of proposals, the report’s budget projections outside the first three years are essentially driven by the assumption that annual spending growth will be 2.5% a year in perpetuity. There is no attempt to make future spending align with even ball-park forecasting of the financial impact of individual measures.

    Collateral damage

    Grattan Institute’s analysis of possible budget solutions in our 2013 Balancing Budgets report sought to identify how much various proposals would save. Consistent with basic principles of public administration, it also looked at the costs. In particular, it considered the possible collateral damage of each individual proposal if it shrank the economy (by discouraging working or investment, for example), caused bad social consequences (such as making housing less affordable), or disproportionately hit the worst-off. Without this sort of information, it’s impossible to tell whether a budget proposal is worthwhile.

    Without this assessment, the Commission kicks some appalling own goals. The worst of these is the failure to think about the impact of its proposals on participation. Good welfare policy design ensures that thresholds and taper rates do not create too many disincentives to work.

    However, abolishing Family Tax Benefit B – currently received by 60% of families – and tightening eligibility for Family Tax Benefit A would make women in middle-income families less likely to do paid work, because they would lose most of their wages in lost benefits. Previous Grattan Institute work shows that if one partner in a family works full time earning $70,000 a year, it makes no financial sense for the second income earner to work for more than three days a week.

    The changes the Commission proposes would see women with children in childcare going backwards financially if they work more than two days a week. Not only is that bad for Joe Hockey’s stated aim of increasing women’s workforce participation, it would hurt the budget by reducing income tax collected from women discouraged from working.

    Similarly, the Commission proposes that Newstart benefits be reduced by 75 cents for every dollar earned. Imagine the screaming about disincentives to work if anyone proposes a top marginal rate of tax……

    Milne now holding PC Tassie.

  258. ME, I did read, from Abbott’s lips, that existing schemes would be dropped. If not, these ladies are going to be wealthy, after they have their baby, if not before.

    They say the cost of labour ha a big part to play in prices. Not that I believe that one, but that is what they say

  259. Neil, look at the mess Abbott has made of the asylum seekers. Cannot even visit neighbouring countries.

  260. The Lieberals are in trouble! Tom Allard speculates that this could be a one-term government.

    I sincerely hope so!

    Could it become known as the “Abbott moment”, when a prime minister cursed his political fate and consigned his government to one term?

    A big call, to be sure, especially so far out from the next federal poll in 2016.

    But the revelations that Tony Abbott is backing a tax increase for middle and high-income earners coupled with the National Commission of Audit’s call for swingeing cuts and radical reforms to health, education and welfare has many pondering the possibility of the demise of the government.


  261. Don’t forget Abbott’s stated aim is to get the budget back in surplus as quickly as possible by making as many as possible, except the well off, suffer for a long time if not indefinitely so he can then bring in tax cuts that will mostly benefit the well off.

  262. Does not the government no longer need a social contract with its people?

    …..The Commission of Audit wants to rip up Australia’s social contract

    The recommendations in the Commission of Audit’s report, which was released yesterday, would, if implemented, erode the fundamental building blocks of Australia’s social contract.

    The social contract – the suite of policies, legislation, programs, health care and social services – has served to ensure that every Australian is able to have a basic but decent standard of living. It has been carefully crafted over the 20th century since Federation.

    The social contract has also served to ensure that extremes of poverty and inequality have been largely avoided, with some important exceptions.

    Growth of the working poor

    The Commission of Audit believes that the minimum wage should be set at 44% of average weekly earnings (AWE), which is a measure of average earnings across both part-time and full-time employment. Using AWE as a benchmark, rather than full-time average earnings, significantly erodes the value of the minimum wage because it includes the wage of people who are either underemployed (around 7% of the Australian workforce) or who choose to work in part-time jobs



  263. “I did read, from Abbott’s lips”

    Well there you go, that was your mistake believing something Abbott said. Nobody, not even his own side, believe anything Abbott says anymore.

  264. It seems n, Abbott cannot go to Indonesia because of the budget. As Tanya said, the budget should now be at the printers. That they do have phones in that country.

    Could it be, at this late stage, that the budget is in disarray?

  265. I think Abbott should get the budget back into surplus. And idea what to do lefties since you created this mess??

    I don’t believe that we are sovereign in our own currency crap so debt does not matter.

    WE are already at the debt levels when we lost our AAA rating under Hawke/Keating in the late 1980’s.

    And if we lose it again we will never get it back. But since debt does not matter let us spend away and enjoy ourselves.

  266. It seems Abbott cannot go to Indonesia because of the budget.

    Yet another lie by Abbott and this government.

    Abbott cannot go to Indonesia because

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott has abandoned a planned trip to Indonesia due to an “on-water operation” which Australian Government sources believe has the potential to cause “embarrassment” to president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

    Yet more secrecy from this supposed open and transparent government promised by Abbott before the election.

    Why aren’t the right wingers addressing this and all the other lies Abbott has told? They have absolutely no credibility and anything they say is completely meaningless unless they face the string of broken promises and lies told by this government. They can’t have it both ways, condemn Labor yet allow worse by this government go through without criticism.

  267. Yes, it was the upper income earners that flourish under Howard. That is where the cuts should begin now. Not at the bottom, who suffered under Howard with his user pay policies. It was the self funded retiree that got all the gains, not those on full pensions.

    Gillard was going down the right track, clawing these benefits back. Abbott reverse all when he came into power.

    ……..was always a furphy.

    But, while the government has exaggerated Australia’s deficit and debt problem at times, there is a medium and long-term fiscal time bomb as the population ages that should be addressed now.

    The government points out that, without action, net government debt will double to $400 billion in 2024 after a decade of budget deficits.

    Labor’s reckless spending is painted as the culprit behind the deterioration by the government and, certainly, the introduction of Labor’s Gonski education reform and National Disability Insurance Scheme will blow out the budget.

    But the main reason for the decline in government’s finances has been on the revenue side of the ledger. Revenue is down from 26 per cent to 23 per cent of gross domestic product in the past decade, while spending has remained at a relatively stable 25 per cent.

    The end of the mining boom is only partly responsible for the revenue crunch, argues Dr Richard Denniss, executive director of the Australia Institute. Eight years of personal income tax cuts in the Howard and Rudd government have hit the bottom line, as well as the concessions given to superannuants and seniors.

    And higher income earners have been the main beneficiaries..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/new-tax-on-rich-could-seal-tony-abbotts-fate-20140502-zr2hx.html#ixzz30cfcD31l


    demand management.

    “Budget difficulties are not something high-income earners are likely to have been concerned with over the past seven years as they were the biggest beneficiaries of these tax cuts,” he says.

    “Of the $169 billion in tax cuts [over the past seven years], 42 per cent of them or $71 billion went to the top 10 per cent of income earners. The top 10 per cent got more in tax cuts than the bottom 80 per cent.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/new-tax-on-rich-could-seal-tony-abbotts-fate-20140502-zr2hx.html#ixzz30ciMInUr

    Now they expect he bottom to pay.

  268. Has anyone seen any comments, aside rom Nei8l supporting Abbott. The Sun Herald comments are stronger against him, than we are here.

  269. Neil, no one is against balance budget. What you are ignoring, is the price to do so at this time

    Even Shepherd is saying, this not the time to do it.

    I am adding, or the way.

  270. cuppa, I wonder what happened between today, and yesterday, when he accepted the invitation to go

    Looking at the comments across cyber space, maybe he would be prudent to go. Get himself away from the media here.

    I am inclined to agree with Milne, he has not got the guts to meet the man face to face.

  271. Neil, once again, who created the mess?

    Have you not read or comprehend one thing, that is being said across the MSM and the web.

    It immaterial now who is o blame. What is important, that Hockey and Abbott have the right remedy to fix things. Most are saying not.

    That budget will have to be a 180 degree flip, to even come near, doing what is needed.

    That wold mean they are at this time, running around the county bull shitting.

    We are only talking about here, what is coming out of their gobs. Nothing else.

    Well most are, except for Neil, that would rather keep on rehashing the pat, getting most of it wrong.

  272. “Neil, once again, who created the mess?

    The mess was created by TomR, Bacchus, FU, Adrian, Min, Michael et al

    But hey we are sovereign in our own currency, debt does not matter so let us spend away, put everything on the Mastercard and have fun.

  273. ME. hat reason was this morning. Now it is budget pressures.

    Well we do know this man can only do one thing at a time, but the budget is the responsibility of the treasure and his assistants.

    Never known In the past, for PMs to play a big role As Tanya said, it should be put to bed and at the printers now. Yes, the work should be done..

  274. We now have the prospect if one gets into trouble overseas, the government expect to be paid for assistance.

    Does that mean we pay the police, if we call them in times of need.

  275. Gee Neil. I did not know I had that much power or influence. One learns something every day.

  276. “Gee Neil. I did not know I had that much power”

    Yep that is true. You are also responsible for the who knows how many people who drowned trying to get to Australia when your heroes abolished the Pacific Solution.

    And also responsible for the thousands of people stuck in UNHCR camps who we would have taken if John Howard was still in power.

    But i guess you don’t care.

  277. The Guardian is reporting that SBY’s invitation to Abbott was a “significant overture” to heal relations between the countries after Abbott antagonised our neighbours soon after coming to office.

    So the President has extended an olive leaf, and Abbott has rejected it. What a plodding dumbcluck is this guy. Worst PM ever.

  278. Hey people has Neil addressed Abbott’s and this government’s string of lies and broken promises yet along with the Liberal party corruption being exposed, now including a Federal Liberal?

    Or is he still going on about Labor in the past as a diversion and obfuscation for this government’s massive failings?

    Don’t answer, I’ve known Neil Repeat long enough to know the answer.

  279. So the boats haven’t stopped.

    The harshest and most cruel inhumane treatment of them is not stopping them attempting to come.

    No wonder Abbott is spending billions on asylum seekers and making ordinary Australians suffer to spend those billions, the most cost per asylum seeker by a long way.

    So whilst Abbott throws away billions and racks up a $68 billion debt of his own, where’s the ring winger outrage at that, he’s crying budget emergency.

    The only budget emergency is the one of his creation as the most incompetent economic manager this country has seen in the worst government ever led by him as the worst PM ever.

  280. Not only can’t the Liberal mob who put out a predetermined report add up, they can’t spell.

  281. Do you want to see where this government is pissing our money away?

    src=”http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmrYW7ACEAEPxBM.jpg” alt=”” />

  282. $1,110,385,000 per annum.

    That’s how much it’s costing us tax payers to detain 2,453 refugees on Nauru and Manus when there are far cheaper and more humane options available.

  283. Haha, the Liberals getting HAMMERED in the elections for Tasmanian Legislative Council seats of Huon and Rosevears.

  284. cuppa they are up in Rosevears, though it would be a massive surprise if they weren’t.

  285. Kerry Finch looks home and hosed in Rosevears. At this stage he has won all booths and the swing against him is about 12%.

    At current polling Libs in Tasmania are about 40%.

  286. Tomorrow’s Sunday Mail exclusive.

    How Abbott stopped the votes.

    Apparently terrible poll figures for him and the government. They would be wiped out.

  287. Rumour doing the rounds on social media that Abbott knocked back Indonesia PM personal invitation to avoid a leadership spill.

  288. And the reason is Lib MP is because you, the Liberal party, are not calling the shots. Through Peta Credlin big business and Murdoch are.

    You have become irrelevant to a greater scheme and that’s the bullshit.

  289. Maybe as Tanya hinted, to rewrite the budget, that should be at the printers. Then it he went to Indonesia, he would have to apologise, and promise no more orange boats,

  290. NoS;- like Howard….and like Abbott, …..ewe have ‘become’.. “irrelevance” ..and your irrelevance has become…well, …..deafening, ay……..ay…….ay…. what was that again…….excuse me……did someone say somethin’ :/
    (..well, NoS, people have been sayin’ somethin’ to ewe for a long time….ewe ‘chose’,….. baa, and your choice; – being CW’s village idiot, …yes; really 😉 😛 )

  291. Cuppa @3.34pm, and a coward. Clearly the only reason Abbott chickened out of the invitation from SBY is because he was likely to be questioned about policy and could not manage, 1. the thought of being questioned and 2. negative publicity. Nowhere to run and hide when you’re in Indonesia. Très embarrassment doing a full frontal runner in front of the Indonesian press.

  292. Carol,

    He’s too witless and slow on his feet to take unscripted questioning. He’s only safe in the warm, friendly hands of shock jocks and the likes of Bolt.

    Someone that incapable of taking questions from all comers has no business being PM, FFS. The Murdoch and shock jock scum have a lot to answer for, boosting and protecting this dishonest lightweight. What a blight they are on civilisation.

  293. That or the rumoured Liberal spill Carol, which though fun on social media probably doesn’t have legs. Though the backlash from Liberal ministers and backbenchers has been very outspoken, which has been rare since Abbott took power and ran authoritarian control over the party through Credlin.

    But yes, it’s probably that he was too scared to face the Indonesian media who have been openly hostile to Abbott and his government, especially after he banned them from a press conference in Indonesia and only allowed hand picked right wing Australian journalists.

  294. Amanda "I've got an indexed pension of $273k pa" Vandstonetalks about tightening belts. You'd have trouble finding one that fits.

    — Mission Implausible (@Mysta) May 4, 2014

  295. I have not seem many comments re that tax. Seen plenty, saying leave the poor and vulnerable alone.

  296. How did the Australian economy fare under Labor with regards to the key economic indicators:

    and Employment

    The graph tells the story. Read it and weep, Nil…

  297. Another repeal of Gillard’s. Yes, you are responsible for your kids until 25. Well that is at least better than I think it was under Howard, 28.

    Believe me, that asset test is set at a low level. Most parents are far from millionaires.

    How it creates more jobs, has not been explained. Ensures that kids have to live at home.

    One become a adult at 18., Can join the forces, but property, responsible for their own debts, vote or marry. Yes, but are kids until 25 when it comes to government benefits. All benefits I believe, not only the dole.

    I wonder how long the money will last, that Gillard extended to school kids until they turn 18. Not5 long I believe.

  298. cuppa, I am to blame. Was making you pic show, My computer crashed. Can you repost post. I lost the link.


  299. Christopher Pyne engaged in Right-Wing Projection this morning on their ABC.

    By way of introduction, note the details of this story:

    Troy Buswell admits ‘wedding crash’ charges — fined $3100, banned for 12 months

    Perth Now, 28 April 2014

    Disgraced former WA Treasurer Troy Buswell has apologised for his actions after he was fined and banned from driving over a series of driving charges.

    Buswell was fined a total of $3100 and banned from driving for 12 months. He did not appear in Perth Magistrates Court today, instead endorsing pleas of guilty to all 11 charges.

    The Vasse MP crashed into four cars and a telephone pole in Subiaco as he drove home from the wedding in the early hours of February 23.

    As the story says, the Liberal drove home (he was said to have been drinking), crashing into a number of other cars on the way.

    Which brings us to the Pyne Nut’s Right-Wing Projection. On Insiders this morning, this is what Pyne said:

    “fLabor is like a drunk who smashes into five parked cars…”

    He’s projected a Liberal action onto Labor!

    He just can’t help himself!

    Right-Wing Projection: The political tactic where right wingers use descriptions pertaining to their own actions to describe their opponents.

  300. Yes cuppa that’s been picked up by social media and especially the #insiders is giving Pyne lots of stick about it. A handful of Liberals who have been done for drink driving have been bought up.

  301. Yes, even us pensioners and every other low income earner is paying plenty of tax. How much, no ones knows. What cannot be hidden, is what we pay, takes out a bigger slice of our income that high income earners

    ……….But taxpayers pay a hell of a lot of other taxes and a lot of them are less visible,” he said.

    “You know that there’s a GST but you forget there’s a petrol tax and a beer tax. And you don’t remember that, for some people, employers are paying their fringe benefits taxes for them, which would otherwise be affecting their wage.”

    Roughly half of the indirect taxes Australians pay are thanks to the GST.

    The Henry Tax Review, which reviewed Australia’s taxation system after the global financial crisis, found Australians pay “at least” 125 taxes each year.

    Of these, 99 are levied by the federal government, 25 by the states and one by local government (council rates).

    But the exact number of taxes is “difficult to determine” and “may be higher than these estimates”, the report said.

    “This reflects ambiguity in distinguishing when a payment to government represents a separate tax or part of a broader tax and whether a payment is a tax rather than a fee for service.”

    Last month, Treasurer Joe Hockey said Australians might have to pay more for health services in the future because “nothing is free – someone always pays”.

    But taxpayers are already paying for more things than they realise…

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/hidden-taxes-the-publics-secret-burden-20140503-zr3yl.html#ixzz30i94TVzU

  302. cuppa, the fact that they had Pyne out this morning tells one a lot. Where are the rest. Pyne and Vanstone is light weight.

  303. It’s just in the last week that Buswell pleaded guilty to the driving offenses. (28 April) So while the incident was still fresh, Pyne Nut projected that sort of behaviour onto Labor with an out-of-context (for the program he was on) reference to a drunk smashing cars. Pretty damn blatant. What a prat.

  304. What I am fed up with, being told that medicine and doctors are free, Here on the Central Coast, I pay at least $25 when I visit the GP. A pay a small fee for the script. I pay hundreds when I am unlucky enough to have to see a specialist. I have sleep Apnoea, but cannot afford the couple of thousand for the machine needed to treat it.

    I am reasonably healthy for my age. I feel for those, suffering from more serious illness

    As for the cataracts, I have taken my place on that long list, and hope I am not blind in both eyes before that.

    The trouble with tis government, they are basing their philosophy and ideology on false assumptions. Yes, that audit is all based on their prejudices and assumptions. Fact are sadly lacking.

    If I am correct, their is no way the solutions they give, can work.

    Somehow the belief that if medicine is free, the poor will abuse the system, is just plain insulting.

    When one follows the news, the abusing and corruption is not found t the bottom but at the top. It seems to be the more one has, the more likely one is to rip off the system.

  305. Back in University, in the 1980’s, it was proven to me, that the workers actually pay enough tax, to cover the benefits they get over a lifetime.

    Yes, we pay or have paid for those so called handouts the upper income earners say we get for free.

    I suspect this would be more so toady. We have since that time, moved from a progressive income tax system, to regressive hidden taxes and things such as the GST.

    Even the pensioner and low income earner pays. Could be thousands per year, out of their low income.

  306. Good luck with your cataracts Fu. My dad has just had both of his done at a cost of a little under $3000. Mum has been told she will have to be almost blind before getting anywhere near the public list. Looks like she’ll have to start saving to save her own sight…

  307. I wish to thank everyone who has made this thread so full of information that is relevant to today.
    To Nil of Sydney, how many years have you been waffling and misrepresenting facts with innuendo and insults, but have yet to convince anyone to believe what you say, except those that have already been conned accordingly. If you were worthwhile to a cause, you would gain supporters, but alas, you are a hindrance to your own cause. Shut up, and maybe the better liars might actually get somewhere, without you lying so badly, it just makes us more aware of what you are attempting. FAIL in Sydney, Nil of Sydney, and has convinced me Avoidance of Sydney. Your a detriment to the NSW Government Tourist promotion also Nil. EPIC FAIL.

  308. The facts are that Labor recently has been in power for 19 years recently and during this time did not save a cent.

    Hawke/Keating racked up at least $60B of debt. Sold off Qantas, Comm Bank CSL etc making the debt they produced smaller. Hawke/Keating took govt debt from 5% of GDP to 19% of GDP. What an achievement.

    Under Hawke/Keating banks went under, Victoria almost went bankrupt under Cain/Kirner and who knows what else. There was also Tricontinental, WA INC, SA State bank.

    Rudd/Gillard then took over after Costello took govt debt to ZERO and took debt from zero to 10% of GDP in no time whatsoever. WE now have the fastest rate of increase in debt in the OECD.

    And you lot enjoy all that.

    Sadists the lot of you.

  309. Techy, I think if you avoid the Nth Shore and Manly area’s (Nil type’s turf(s))you will find Sydney to be a nice place to visit……… but ya wouldn’t want to live there. ( It STINKS of exhaust fumes ALL day and ALL night…phew, it is digusting :/ )
    But then again Brisbane would be just as stinky too, but, ay 😉
    Anyhoo, the best places to visit in NSW are far from the coast and Nil. 😉 … I here the Broken Hill area is a great place to visit… and live….and breathe 😀
    …just sayin….( and with very little bias, …no really 😆 )

  310. Poor old Nil is desperate to take the spotlight off the failed Murdoch/Abbott government. It won’t work, Nil.

  311. “(Nil type’s turf

    I actually live in Western Sydney.

    Why don’t you go back to what you are good at. Building detention centers.

    ALP/Greens locked up more men, women and asylum seeker children than any govt in Australian history.

  312. NoS, “WE now have the fastest rate of increase in debt in the OECD.” , caused by Hockey Neil. 😮 …. ewe really are a ‘piece of work’ NoS *shakes head*
    …. and by the by and by, Keating set the scene for the good years ahead and Howard fucked it all up… THATS A FACT NoS…….. Labor builds and then your lot come in and grind it all down again….. and then blame Labor for the incompetence of the RWingers. Your a cherry pick’n fraud NoS……. (true dat 😛 )

  313. Peter Martin:

    By itself, the level of debt doesn’t matter much. Government debt is not like household debt. When you or I have a debt it is usually owed to a single institution, the one that provides our mortgage. We have no choice but to pay it off, either by making the payment in full or by dying and having it taken out of our estate.

    But governments aren’t like people. They are more like corporations with a multitude borrowings, each paid off when it falls due and each overlapping. There is no such thing as “the” government debt. Instead it is like the water in a bath being kept warm as old water escapes and new water flows in. The volume of water in the bath may not change, but the composition changes all the time. Lenders lend and get repaid continuously. And, unlike people, governments never die. There is never an end point at which “the government debt” has to be extinguished.

    And extinguishing it would be a bad idea. In 2002-03, when the Howard government no longer needed government debt, it commissioned a review into whether it should bother continuing to issue government bonds. The review concluded that financial markets need government bonds in order to price private sector loans. Without them, interest rates would be higher. And financial institutions are required by regulators to hold some of their capital in extremely safe assets. Without government bonds they would be struggling. So the Howard government undertook to ensure it always borrowed at least $25 billion whether it needed it or not. It invested what it borrowed in shares and the like, allowing it to boast that it had no net debt while maintaining a gross debt

    It’s just as well it did. When the financial crisis hit, the Rudd government decided to borrow big time. Had the Australian government not kept its debt market open it would have found that difficult in the circumstances of the time. Few would now argue the government should be entirely debt free.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/its-the-debt-not-the-spending-why-the-budget-is-bleeding-20140503-zr3mo.html#ixzz30ihQPg1r

  314. Neil, once again, it is not about saving. It is about investing in our country’s future.

    Neil, yo live west of Sydney you say, now I suspect, even you have travelled over that Harbour Bridge. Yes, one built by the waster premier during the last

    depression., Yes, we could not afford it. Yes, they say it was a waste.. Move around the harbour, to another Labor wasteful and another project we could not afford.

    Yes, one Labor was spending to much on. I suspect you have guessed, yes the Opera House. Yes, Labor was thrown out. The Libs finished the building cutting corners. Yes, and the state has spent millions over the last few years, fixing their errors. We only now have building that preforms what it was built with. Would have been more efficient and cheaper to do it properly in the first place.

    turn you eyes backwards, and you will see the electric rail. Yes, that was also created by that idiot Lang, who was thrown out by the people of the day He extend the system out to the west, where I assume sometimes catch. Not much was added until this century, It is shame., We could use more rail today.

    I have not t finished. There are many great hospital building, as you move through Lidcombe and further west. Yes, one will find the name Lang on true foundation stones. .

    Yes, Neil, you are correct Labor always gets it wrong.

    Of course it was sad, that the great war leaders also appear to come from the Labor side, even if when the wars began,. the Libs where in power.
    Neil, I reared my family in the west, Guildford in fact. I am glad that I did not come across many like you. Not even when I lives in Cabramatta, By the way, I am fifth generation Australia on all sides. No convict blood sadly. Al mu kids are sixth.

    Saying that, I am glad that over the years we took all those refugees and migrants. They make us the great land we are tody. If we tool all from our near neighbours would only be a benefit to this country The funny thing is, refugees make the best migrants.

    Yes, as a child, I joined in the racism. I was lucky, I had a grand pop that quickly pulled us into line.

    Neil, I happen to like the way this country has evolved. I, for one do ot want to see it changed. I want a land that gives everyone a fair go.

  315. Bacchus, hope to have the eyes done around Christmas. With a bit of luck I might last that long. Do not mind waiting. As you said, your father paid. I wonder what Dutton and his ilk really know about how our health system works.

    In the meantime, you will all have to put up with the errors I miss. They make assumptions, that seem to be based on their own prejudices and come up with policy. Trouble is, it does not make sense.

    Seems to be the truth when one looks at every recommendation I that report. Shepherd could not give any further information or facts when questioned at the senate hearings.

    In fact, it is frightening.,

  316. Once again,do not have a spending problem. In fact I believe we will have big problems if this government goes ahead with its cuts. Big big problems.

    …….Australia has a serious spending problem.” Keep repeating it until you believe it. Joe Hockey has. The Treasurer was at it again on Friday in the third and final of his scene-setting speeches before the budget.

    “The problem at the heart of Labor’s legacy was excessive spending,” he told the Australia-Israel Chamber of Commerce .

    It’s a good line, but it isn’t true.

    Spending is running somewhat higher than it was when the Coalition was last in office, that’s all. On the other hand, government revenue – most of it tax – is far lower.

    Australia has a big budget problem – certainly a big revenue problem – but it doesn’t yet have a spending problem.

    The figures for the most recent financial year tell the story. Two years beforehand in 2010-11, Treasury forecast revenue equal to 24.1 per cent of gross domestic product by 2012-13. It was a low forecast by the standards of the previous Howard government. But what the Gillard government got was 23.1 per cent of GDP, billions of dollars less.

    By a staggering coincidence, government spending that year amounted to exactly 24.1 per cent of GDP, precisely the same figure as the revenue it had expected to get.

    If revenue had rolled in as expected, the past financial year’s budget wouldn’t be in deficit in all. Wayne Swan would be crowing about his success in eliminating the deficit on time, as promised.

    No one is too sure where the revenue has gone. It’s a murder mystery with multiple suspects.

    One is a new style of tax minimisation. Cloud-based corporations such as Google, Apple, Microsoft and Amazon pay far less tax here than their bricks and mortar predecessors used to. Whether it’s Ireland, Singapore, Holland or a more exotic tax haven, they can decide where big chunks of their incomes are meant to reside and shuffle their locations at will. So far we’ve been powerless to stop them………….

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/its-the-debt-not-the-spending-why-the-budget-is-bleeding-20140503-zr3mo.html#ixzz30jM2peNp

  317. Even household debt is good, if managed properly, Not many on low incomes would own a home, or other big items without it. Some could say, yes money makes the world go around, assisted by debt.

    Why, many make their income by lending money out.

  318. “WE now have the fastest rate of increase in debt in the OECD.” , caused by Hockey Neil.”

    I already knew your were a pathological liar. Why add to the evidence??

    Hawke/Keating and Rudd/Gillard did not save a cent.

    Hawke/Keating took debt from 5% to 19% of GDP. And after Costello took it back to ZERO, Rudd/Gillard took it back to 10%.

    And i would say that very little of those billions of dollars spent by Rudd/Gillard was invested in our countries future.

    Wow $900 cheques to spend on brothels.

  319. Neil, these are the real problems First, where has the revenues gone. Why did not the economy behave as it should, under Labor. Why did not that dollar come down, Some reasons are obvious, explainable. Others are not.

    While this government is allow to get away with slogans, looking was back for the past for answers, we will be heading for bigger trouble.

    Harping on about Labor’s debt will only allow things to become worse.

    …………One is a new style of tax minimisation. Cloud-based corporations such as Google, Apple, Microsoft and Amazon pay far less tax here than their bricks and mortar predecessors used to. Whether it’s Ireland, Singapore, Holland or a more exotic tax haven, they can decide where big chunks of their incomes are meant to reside and shuffle their locations at will. So far we’ve been powerless to stop them.

    Another is mining companies. Although big taxpayers because of the size of their operations, they have been paying a much lower proportion of their operating profits as tax than the rest of the corporate sector, about 5 to 10 percentage points less according to Treasury Secretary Martin Parkinson.

    “Just to be clear, this is not a judgment about what the effective tax rate paid by mining companies should be,” he told business economists last May. “It is simply a statement of fact.”

    Miners have been ramping up their investment spending and writing it off against their incomes quickly for tax purposes.

    Another suspect is John Howard. Trapped in a moment of what columnist Annabel Crabb calls “electoral existential panic” over petrol prices in 2001, he froze the fuel excise, abandoning indexation. It hasn’t moved since. It’s still 39.14¢/litre, even though the price of petrol has climbed 60 per cent. The quick fix didn’t cost his budget much at the time but now costs $5 billion per year.

    Howard gets fingered again for what economist Saul Eslake describes as “one of the worst taxation decisions made in the past 20 years”. In his last months in office, Howard exempted entirely from tax all superannuation benefits paid to almost all Australians aged 60 and over. Even the interest earned within their funds became tax free. The parting gift cost his budget nothing but crimps revenue more and more as more and more Australians age.

    Another suspect is us. At times during the Howard era, households saved nothing. Income was spent as it came in. Now households as a whole save a staggering 10 per cent of their income. Much of it isn’t put in the bank, it’s used to pay down mortgages. We haven’t saved as much since 1986. It’s money largely withdrawn from the economy, money that would have once been spent on businesses that would themselves be taxed and would employ staff who would also be taxed.

    And we are changing the way we are spending. More of it is overseas where it escapes the goods and services tax and more is on education and health, also untouched by the GST. The GST is allocated to the states rather than the Commonwealth so the shortfall doesn’t have an impact on the Commonwealth directly, but it does put it under pressure to give the states more of its diminished income.

    Australia goes into the budget with a projected deficit of $47 billion (a figure inflated by the government’s decision to pay $8 billion to top up the Reserve Bank’s reserve fund).

    Each extra year the budget remains in deficit means many more billions the government has to borrow. Net debt is now expected to peak at 16 per cent of GDP, about $280 billion. Two years ago, the forecast was for a peak of just 6 per cent of GDP, about $100 billion.

    Although very low by the standards of other developed countries, the forecast is an awful lot bigger than it was.

    By itself, the level of debt doesn’t matter much. Government debt is not like household debt. When you or I have a debt it is usually owed to a single institution, the one that provides our mortgage. We have no choice but to pay it off, either by making the payment in full or by dying and having it taken out of our estate.

    But governments aren’t like people. They are more like corporations with a multitude borrowings, each paid off when it falls due and each overlapping. There is no such thing as “the” government debt. Instead it is like the water in a bath being kept warm as old water escapes and new water flows in. The volume of water in the bath may not change, but the composition changes all the time. Lenders lend and get repaid continuously. And, unlike people, governments never die. There is never an end point at which “the government debt” has to be extinguished..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/its-the-debt-not-the-spending-why-the-budget-is-bleeding-20140503-zr3mo.html#ixzz30jP8qIr9

  320. Cuppa

    Did your read the link you gave?? I remember you blasting Costello for leaving gross debt. Your link says this

    In 2002-03, when the Howard government no longer needed government debt……………………… So the Howard government undertook to ensure it always borrowed at least $25 billion whether it needed it or not. It invested what it borrowed in shares and the like, allowing it to boast that it had no net debt while maintaining a gross debt

    It’s just as well it did. When the financial crisis hit, the Rudd government decided to borrow big time. Had the Australian government not kept its debt market open it would have found that difficult in the circumstances of the time.”

  321. Cuppa

    By the way that link you provided shows all your opinions to be a total lie.

    After paying off all Federal govt debt Costello decided to stay in the bond market by borrowing money and then using that money to invest in shares or other things. Costello did this because he wanted to keep the bond market open

    Any other lies you want to tell Cuppa???

    By the way. 19 years of ALP govts and not a cent saved but several hundreds of billions of debt racked up.

  322. While Lying Nil keeps tries desperately to distract attention from the disasters of the Murdoch Lieberal government, opinion polling tells us how bad things are for them. A ReachTEL poll released tonight has Labor leading on the primary vote 39:40, panning out to a 2pp result of Labor 54: Lieberal 46.

    Abbott has 27% approval, 57% disapproval.

    That’s an approval deficit of 30%.

    Things are going from bad to worse for this, the worst government in the history of Australia.

  323. Neil, your facts mean little unless you put them in context. Once again, saying debt means nothing. it can be good or bad,

    You need to give trends’, percentages and how the issues raised fit in with what is going on globally.

    You need to be able to tell us why you think they are negative.,

    What you say proves nothing. Only that you think it is bad,.

    As you think the only thing that matters, when it comes to economics, one cannot put much faith in what you say.,

  324. Just to clarify, on the primary vote it’s Labor 40 to the Lieberals 39.

    I can’t remember the last time Labor was ahead on the primaries.

  325. Gerard took a fact this morning on Insiders. He said that Labor had not gained in the latest galaxy poll. Yes, he is correct, but it does not mean what he was trying to present. The fact is, that since the last election, Labor has been gradually trending up each week, to now where it leads the government by a good margin. While the trend down for the government is rapidly speeding up.

    See, Neil, one has to put figures in context to give them any meaning. If you ever writ a uni paper, at anytime, you would know this.

    I also expect, going from history, that the hatred that was aboard for the Labor government, many would be reluctant at this stage to swing to Labor, but would move towards minor parties.

    Especially after a election, where the evidence seem to be, it was a vote more against Labor, that towards the Coalition.

  326. It’s worse than that for Abbott cuppa.

    Not all that popular when he was elected, Abbott’s personal satisfaction rating has been in a steady arc downward since the election. There has been no sudden sharp drop in the last short while in reaction to recent stuff ups but an inexorable steady decline.

    He’s a dud.

  327. Neil the Liberal Liar said of Peter Martin

    he is a partisan hack and a liar


    That was two days ago. Nil thinks we’ve forgotten how he damned him. Now he’s happy to quote the same Peter Martin.

    The Liberal shill dismisses people as “liars” when it suits… then, when it suits, quotes the same people as authoritative commentators.

    Readers will see the dishonesty in Nil’s approach to debate.

    Lie after lie … it’s the Liberal lingua franca.

  328. It’s all diversion cuppa. He’s desperate to keep the topic off the lying and terrible Abbott and this woeful failing government. It’s his modus operandi.

  329. ME,

    He’s never been electable. He won by default thanks to the propaganda effort of Murdoch, their ABC and talkback radio.

    It’s going to take a lot more than propaganda to save him though…. And he hasn’t even started in earnest on their nasty agenda yet.

  330. Cuppa

    Just quoting your hero Peter Martin.

    Martin says the reason we had gross debt was because the Howard/Costello govt after paying off all debt wanted to keep the bond market open. So they borrowed money and invested it in shares etc according to Martin.

    So gross debt may have been $57B but net debt was not only zero but less than zero. I think it was -3.8% of GDP in 2007.

    Also we have had 19 years of ALP govts and no saving during those 19 years. Just wasted money thrown against the wall.

    Like Rudd giving people $900 cheques and then ALP voters spending it on brothels and TV’s.

  331. You’re a liar Neil. One day you’re damning Peter Martin as a “liar” (Right-Wing Projection), two days later you’re quoting him.

    Keep your lies for your Liberal buddies, they’re sure to appreciate it.

  332. Like Rudd giving people $900 cheques and then ALP voters spending it on brothels and TV’s.

    ANOTHER lie!

    You have no way of knowing the voting preference of the people who received and spent “$900 cheques”.

    Stop making shit up.

    The money didn’t go out as cheques either. That’s another lie.

    And it wasn’t important HOW the money was spent, it’s that it WAS spent. That was the idea of the stimulus – to get money out there and circulating hurriedly to avert an economic disaster.

    It worked too. No recession here.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Labor saved Australia: Nobel laureate Stiglitz

    Sydney Morning Herald, 06 August 2010

    The federal government’s economic credentials have received a timely boost from Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, who suggested Labor may be best placed to take the country forward.

    Professor Stiglitz, a former World Bank chief economist and economic adviser to the US government, said federal Labor did a fantastic job of saving Australia from the global economic crisis.

    At the same time Professor Stiglitz criticised right-wing politicians for being the “architects” of the downturn.


  333. “You’re a liar Neil”

    I am just quoting your hero Peter martin.

    He says the reason we had gross debt in 2007 is because Howard/Costello after paying off all debt wanted to keep the bond market open. So they borrowed money and invested it in shares.

    And indeed i did read that brothels did a roaring trade because of Rudds $900 cheques


    TV Stores, Brothels Vie for Rudd’s Cash Handouts to Australians

    ALP programs only waste money and destroy the lives of people.

  334. Here are some of the current political headlines. Great stuff…

    “Voters accuse Tony Abbott of breaking his promises”

    “Abbott losing ground as deficit tax trashed by all sides”

    “Tony Abbott would lose an election if it was held now”

    “Voters punish Coalition’s tax plan: poll”

    “Liberal base ‘angry’ over debt tax”

    “Voters against PPL scheme”

    “Voters abandon Abbott as backlash mounts over ‘deficit tax'”

    “Coalition Support Tumbling Amid Anger Over Debt Tax”

    … and on and on it goes.


  335. It’s because of headlines like this that poor old Nil the Shill is trying to distract readers’ attention by harking back to events of the past.

    Can’t cope with the present, huh, Nil?


  336. Cuppa

    Did you read your link??

    We had gross debt in 2007 because Howard/Costello wanted to keep the bond market open. After paying off all debt they borrowed money and invested it in shares according to Peter Martin.


  337. More headlines for you to enjoy, Nil the Shill…

    “Voters want to break Abbott over tax promise”

    “EDITORIAL: Harebrained ‘debt tax’ plan could spell disaster for Prime Minister”

    Changing the subject won’t help, Nil. The Fiberals are in deep doo-doo.

  338. Can’t cope with the present, huh, Nil?

    Got it in one cuppa *thumbs up* 😉

  339. History is important.

    From 1983-1996 debt went from 5 % of GDP to 19% of GDP

    From 1996-2007 it went from 19% of GDP to zero

    From 2008-2013 it went from zero to 10% of GDP.

    Apparently we have the highest rate of increase of debt in the OECD.

    Do you lot care about Australia?? I think you are all traitors to Australia and only loyal to the ALP

  340. In America they have had George Bush, Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Stevie Wonder

    In Australia we’ve got Tony Abbott, No Cash, No Hope and No fuc*$#@ Wonder ….


  341. Sally McManus has been methodically tracking and itemising the Lieberal government’s lies, broken promises and things they’ve done to hurt Australians.

    So far she’s up to 134, with the latest being the 1st of May.



  342. Neil ol’ chum. The common folk are starting to wake up to the BS framing of ALL debt and deficit = bad that the Lieberals have been successfully and furiously spinning for the last couple of decades since we got rid of the worst treasurer EVER in 1983.

    I’ve been having an interesting debate elsewhere with young, previously conservative thinkers. Show them a few facts, of which they weren’t aware, and point them to alternative economic theories (some have economic qualifications) and suddenly, they’re rethinking their “beliefs.” It’s great to interact with genuinely open-minded, educated youngsters!

  343. Does one agree that Abbott at this time has Hobson choice when it comes to addressing the structural imbalance in the budget, Yes, he can address all the rebate and removal of tax, re super for higher income earners. This means taking from Howard’s self funded retiree, or as I call them, goldie oldies, that collect both their super and pension. If not, at least that valuable concession card. At the same time, they pay no tax on any money invested or what comes from their super. Yes, that is what kept Howard in power. I can understand them not being willing to vote for Labor. They have too much to lose. It is a shame, that many on full pensions seem to believe they did well under Howard. They did not, they went backwards. These and Rudd This is the first time I can recall this happening.

    For Abbott it is easy to leave the retiree alone, put a temporary levy on those earning above 80,000 . Cannot hit those families that earn below this more. They are already losing many benefits, including that school ked bonus.

    Abbott had to be seen as being fair, came up with a temporary levy while all other changes are permanent.

  344. Does not seem to be Labor accuse of corruption this week. Poor Neil must have missed that.

    If they keep falling, there will be so many on the cross benches, that we could end up with minority government in NSW. They have not yet began on the federal MPs.

    What was that they said about Gillard and guilt by association. Could that not apply to the present PM.

    Neil, be careful before going down that track. Likely to come back and bite.

  345. Does not seem to be Labor accuse of corruption this week. Poor Neil must have missed that.

    How many Lieberals have gone down in the corruption enquiry in recent weeks? Five? Six? Something like that. Poor old Nil, he turns right away to Right-Wing Projection. (That is, when he’s not harking back to the past to avoid addressing the disaster that is the current Lieberal government).

  346. I really do believe that you people only care about the ALP being in power.

    You would rather live in a country with a trashed economy than live in a country that is successful under a Liberal govt.

  347. Neil, it mattered not what the $900 was spent on. All that matters, is that it was spent. I did not know brothels and alcohol was illegal. Still kept people in work. That is what it was meant to do. I am sure most of it was welcome and spent carefully

    What is important, it worked. Kept employment up.

  348. Neil, you are beginning to sound desperate, Why? Neil, how many times have you seen anyone agree with you, on any site.,

  349. STOP PRESS. Our economy is one of the best in the world, not even in the most fevered imagination, “trashed”. That characterisation only exists in weak, blindly partisan minds 😆

  350. FU,

    The Commission of (Fr)Audit was explicitly instructed not to look at expenditure only, not revenue.

    In all budgets there are two columns: Revenue and Expenditure.

    Why would an “audit” body be told to ignore one side of the ledger?

    I suspect it’s because the Lieberals know full well, and are embarrassed by, the fact that the revenue side is in structural deficit because of THEIR OWN actions under Howard and Costello. Abbott’s hamfisted attempt to (partially) address the structural deficit with his Deceit Tax has landed them in a world of pain, especially with the clueless Liberal base who believed his line about “No new taxes, no raised taxes”.

    Then there’s the “surprise” element. He also said there’d be “no surprises” from this government – another lie.

    The lies never end with this lot.

  351. Highest increase, from a very low base, to one not much higher. Still low on world standards. If I increase my debt from 19 to 29 dollars, what percentage is that. matter much, because I still own little. Now if I increase it from 1 billion to 2 bil;lion, that might be different.

  352. Edit:

    The word NOT shouldn’t be in this sentence:

    “The Commission of (Fr)Audit was explicitly instructed not to look at expenditure only, not revenue.”

    The Commission of (Fr)Audit was explicitly instructed to look at expenditure only, not revenue.

    Time for bed. Goodnight. 🙂

  353. Yet Shepherd did mention some revenue in that report, when it suited them, Was asked why at the senate hearings.

  354. Yes, I care about Labor being in power. What is wrong with that.

    I do not believe in the policies of this government, I believe they will harm the nation, before they are finished.

    There are many Liberals, especially older one,, that have similar concerns.

    There have been liberals I disagree withy but respected. There are none today.

    There has to be some, maybe many within this government that are in disagreement with their leader. I also have no respect for them as they are too gutless to speak up. They are saying nothing in support. In fact they are saying nothing at all.

  355. Up top now, the economy has not been trashed, You can find no evidence to say it has. Not so sure from now on,. we will be so lucky.

  356. “Our economy is one of the best in the world, not even in the most fevered imagination, “trashed

    But the budget has been trashed, as usual, by the ALP. And a trashed budget will eventually lead to a trashed economy.

    And this good economy was produced by Howard/Costello. You have to go back to the 1970’s to find unemployment at 4%.

  357. cuppa @ 10:07 pm

    Now Hockey caught up cuppa.

    Seems Hockey is part of a Liberal fund raising organisation called the North Sydney Forum where lobbyists and vested interests get charged large amounts for access to Hockey.

    AWA through the corrupt Liberals in NSW has donated to Hockey.

    My problem isn’t directly to do with the corruption, as bad as that is and as urgent as it needs to be stamped out, it’s with the hypocritical right wingers disingenuousness and double standards on it.

    At the height of the failures of the last NSW State Labor government there were many topics on it in Tim Dunlop’s blog of the time. Amongst those most vociferous and condemnatory against State Labor are some commentators here and many others on the left.

    It is no different today. Some of the harshest critics of Labor governments are from the left.

    But flip that around for the right and not only is their silence on the wrong doing and failures of the Liberals deafening, they go out of their way to defend the indefensible in making excuses and openly lying to obfuscate and divert from those failures.

    And then we have those like Neil, who in displays of gross projection, go out of their way to condemn commentators here for supposedly supporting a corrupt party whilst we get not one single word about the corruption and failures of the Liberals.

    To me it seems it’s the left who are more open and honest in their support whilst it’s the right who go to great lengths to be dishonest and diversionary in their support. That tells me a lot about how bad the party they support is.

    In NSW there has been an deep-rooted and systematic corruption of politics by big business, especially developers, for a very long time and for both major parties, along with the occasional Indie. It takes a person lacking moral convictions not to openly address that but instead to put all the blame on one side whilst not only forgiving those they support, but actively covering up and making excuses for them.

  358. I suspect it’s because the Lieberals know full well, and are embarrassed by, the fact that the revenue side is in structural deficit because of THEIR OWN actions under Howard and Costello.

    On the up side, there is actually a lot of talk about this within the msm at the moment. They studiously ignored it when Labor were in power, no matter how often Labor brought it up or tried to rectify it (class war anyone?), but at least they are FINALLY addressing it.

    Now Hockey caught up cuppa.

    I also read a tweet this morning that mentioned mark textor is due to appear.

    As somene else mentioned, in Labor, there were isolated instances of corruption, in the libs, it appears to be systematic throughout their entire structure

  359. As somene else mentioned, in Labor, there were isolated instances of corruption, in the libs, it appears to be systematic throughout their entire structure

    That would be why Nil (the Lib Shill) was projecting this onto Labor last night.

    Nil projected:


    Right-Wing Projection: The political tactic where right wingers use descriptions pertaining to their own side of politics to describe their opponents.

  360. Where is all the WASTE that Labor had and that the libs promised us could simply be removed in order to address our “budget emergency”?

    It appears that the libs have forgotten all about that.

  361. Cuppa

    I want to thank you for posting Peter Martins article. It explains why we had gross debt but net debt was zero in 2007 and should be posted again


    In 2002-03, when the Howard government no longer needed government debt, it commissioned a review into whether it should bother continuing to issue government bonds. The review concluded that financial markets need government bonds in order to price private sector loans. Without them, interest rates would be higher. And financial institutions are required by regulators to hold some of their capital in extremely safe assets. Without government bonds they would be struggling. So the Howard government undertook to ensure it always borrowed at least $25 billion whether it needed it or not. It invested what it borrowed in shares and the like, allowing it to boast that it had no net debt while maintaining a gross debt

    I remember that. There was discussion about whether the Govt should keep issuing bonds even though the govt did not need the money.

    I also think some Superannuation funds need to invest in govt bonds so Costello kept the bond market open.

  362. …in the libs, it appears to be systematic throughout their entire structure.

    Exactly. The right wingers completely ignore that.

    Hockey’s North Sydney Forum is an example of how the Liberals do it. Set up shop fronts to suck in donations to the limit allowed by legislation whilst in the backroom the big money outside of that is being laundered through the entity.

    Who remembers Howard’s Greenfields Foundation? When caught out with millions over the allowable limit, instead of criminal charges being laid as should have been the case, the Liberals were let off with a “clerical error” and had to pay the money back.

    To be fair Labor also had a money churning fund but it was small bickies and amateur as compared to the sophisticated entity and millions of the Liberals.

    If you look around you will see at the Federal and State level the same types of entities as Greenfields still there for the Liberals, for example the North Sydney Forum.

    So for the right wingers to come out with a holier than though attitude on this is sanctimonious, which is why they have no credibility in most things they aver and state. They will never hesitate to obfuscate and divert to cover up for the failings of the Liberals and they will always be quick to lie and misinform to attack anything or anyone that does not unquestioningly support the Liberals.

  363. Nil the Lib Shill stammered:

    I want to thank you for posting Peter Martins article. It explains…

    Just a couple of says ago you were calling him a “liar” and “partisan”.

    What’s the matter, is he not a liar now?

    You bloody hypocrite.

  364. Please Mr. Abbott, you are not my father. I do not need or appreciate your tough love.

    Please Mr Abbot, have the guts to take on the mining and banking industries. They can affo4rd to pay, we cannot..

    Please Mr Abbott, why do you feel you can tell the mining industry what is in yiur budget, but you cannot tell us, the people?

    Please Mr Abbott, explain why it is OK for the rich and powerful to be able to pay to have access to you. Why do you also not listen to us, or do we also have to line up and pay to attract your attention.

    Mr Abbott do we have to go down on our knees, as the pictures show, you do for Gina and Murdoch.

    By the way, be very careful of your diversion for today. allowing open go on babues for adoption from poor countries is full of danger. Previous governments trd carefully for good reasons. These babies are human, not pets.

  365. Even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day.

    But i stand by my comments. But Martin is not as bad as Koukoulas.

    Hopefully you will not be mentioning gross debt left by Howard any more. It was more than covered by money in the bank.

    Some organisations need to deposit money in ultra safe places and Govt bonds are the safest.

    That is why Costello kept borrowing money even though he didn’t need to.

  366. What Nil the Liberal Shill does…

    If someone says something he likes, he quotes it.

    If the same person says something he doesn’t like, they’re a “liar” and “partisan hack”.

    Hypocrisy is second nature to Lib shills.

    They throw around the accusation “liar” like confetti, in a political tactic known as Right-Wing Projection.

    Nil flexes his hypocrisy for two reasons:

    1) To shift the spotlight away from the current Lieberal government, the worst government since Federation.
    2) To make excuses for the Howard government, the laziest, most wasteful government in Australia’s 200-year history. The incompetents that left $57 billion gross debt and the budget in structural deficit despite enjoying the advantage of the biggest burst of global prosperity in human history.


    PS: Nil, you should be very careful about accusing people in the public eye of being “liars” , “born liars” and suchlike. Intemperate impugning of people’s character won’t be welcomed if they happen to read your words.

  367. Do not you know, any money spent on low income earners is considered as waste by this mob. Their largesse is saved for the top of the tree, where it seems business is bringing in record profits.

    Still not good enough for them, They want a bigger share, they want all.,

    Abbott was not on his knees at those corporate and IPA dinners for nothing.

    Yes, he sees himself as handing out tough love. Sorry, I do not wants love. I just want him to government for the good of all.

    If he feels there is a budget emergency, let him ask those who can afford to pay, pay. Leave the rest of us alone.

    We do not need the lowest minimum pay, just above the USA. We do not want our tightly target welfare tightened further. We want universal health scheme, bevcause it is efficient and it world.

    We do not want everything g sold off. Some are actually good for the nation.

    Yes, and we are all taxpayers, including those on pensions and low income. In fact, with the move towards regressive tax, we not pay more than our fair share. One cannot find many escape clauses, on pay as you earn tax system. One pays what it says.

  368. Hockey is lawyering up over this story

    Treasurer Joe Hockey is offering privileged access to a select group including business people and industry lobbyists in return for tens of thousands of dollars in donations to the Liberal Party via a secretive fund-raising body whose activities are not fully disclosed to election funding authorities.


    Not yet seen on ABC. Have they been brow beaten by the Government?

  369. So Abbott will give the states money, if they sell off all their assets, so he will have the money to build more roads, and be the infrastructure PM.

    Maybe someone, maybe Neil, can tell me why this makes sense.

    Especially as this, so called infrastructure PM has shut down, all the infrastructure that was under way from the previous two Labor governments.

  370. Yes Neil, I am becoming bitter. No government has caused me to eel this way in the past.

    I find it hard to be happy about being taken for a fool, by one that sees himself as our loving father, handing out tough love,

    No Neil, I do not hate him. In fact, I pity the man, for his stupidity.

  371. Former Liberal treasurer of WA, Troy Buswell, on an overseas junket, dining high on the taxpayer hog…

    …At one point, Mr Buswell and Ms Turnseck toured the French countryside, staying at the tiny hamlet of Vrigny in the famous Ardennes region — which is world acclaimed for its fine dining and champagne houses, including Moet-Chandon and Veuve Clicquot.

    They also dined at nearby Tinquex where the bill for Mr Buswell, Ms Turnseck and Public Transport Authority director Mark Burgess’s dinner blew out to more than $780.


  372. tabot is already the focus of ridicule. Where to from here? Who will be leading them?

    If we simply focus on the numbers rather than Abbott’s words, it’s hard to understand what on earth Tony Abbott is on about, ……..unless we think of him as an entertainer rather than a prime minister.

    Somehow the $1.85bn carbon price is supposed to destroy the economy….

    ….Yet an income tax hike of $2.5bn will be good for the economy because it helps reduce the deficit.

    Meanwhile, a $5.5bn per annum extra hit on the budget in the paid parental leave scheme……is supposed to enhance the country’s economic performance?

    You’ve got to give it to Tony Abbott. As a Prime Minister, he is a damn good comedian.


    That image ME put up recently with Gillard laughing at us all saying wtte “hope you’re all happy with tabot now” should be getting a big run on social media. I wonder how the msm feel about how they ignored tabot for all those years while they were pouring scorn on her without any basis at all.

  373. What century are we in?


    Sloppily and sexily dressed ATO workers in Sydney have been told to go home and change.

    The Australian Taxation Office took the drastic step after bosses signaled out workers whose outfits they deemed “revealing” or “immodest”.

    The Canberra Times reports the Commissioner of Taxation, Chris Jordan, personally ordered workers home from the ATO’s Sydney CBD building, telling them to come back in more appropriate attire.

    Has the ATO taken work style too far? tell us in our comment section below.

    Men have not been spared the wrath of the style offensive, with some given a specific warning that boardies and thongs are for the beach, not the office.

    Insiders say the crackdown is an example of Mr Jordan’s growing influence, as he tries to bring the culture of his former private sector workplace, KPMG, to the ATO………


  374. Cuppa

    You should be apologizing to Costello for you lies

    1983-1996 govt debt went from 5% of GDP to 19% of GDP
    1996-2007 govt debt went from 19% of GDP to ZERO
    2008-2013 govt debt went from ZERO to 10% of GDP.

    Notice any pattern??

    To believe WAyne Swan if in power from 1996-2007 shows that not only are you a lair but a fool as well.

    And most probably a traitor to Australia.

  375. Neil, most are worried, with good reason to be concerned about what happened a decade ago. You need to find a history blog. Would be more suitable for your interest. It seems you care not about today, and the path this country is quickly heading down.

    Each day brings new disaster, which seems to flow over you.

    Time to let the past go, and move into this century. Somehow, I suspect, that you are so obsessed, that you are incapable of doing so.

    Neil, we cannot change what happened then, maybe we can change, or at least moderate a little what is occurring now.

  376. Distractions aren’t going to help, Nil. Your mob are in the pooh! 😀

    The great headlines keep coming…

    “Backlash mounts in polls”

    “Govt faces backlash in polls”

    “Voters punish coalition’s tax plan: poll”

    “Voters warn govt on GP fee, pensions”

    Abbott started with a low credibility base, it’s now gone well and truly into the toilet.

  377. Abbott started with a low credibility base, it’s now gone well and truly into the toilet.

    Sorry to disagree cuppa. Abbott’s credibility started in the toilet and has been well and truly flushed since then, and according to a recent graph I saw is still heading down towards the sewers.

    Worst leader this country has ever had by a megalitre of crap.

  378. Interesting that hockey isn’t denying the Fairfax story, just that he cannot comment as lawyers are now involved. How many questions did Gillard allow over her “slush” fund?

  379. ME,

    Along with the structural budget deficit bequeathed to him by his Liberal predecessors, Abbott has a credibility deficit all of his own making.

    Mr Deficit:

    “Now I’m happy to take full responsibility, happy to take full personal responsibility for every mistake that the Coalition makes and frankly, that’s what adult government is all anout. The buck will stop with me.”

    Abbott, 2013 election campaign, 06 September 2013

    Quoted on Their ABC, 06 September 2013


  380. over $60 billion of borrowing SINCE the election cuppa. Does he take responsibility for that?

  381. A PC on with the Malaysian Deputy PM and Truss. Love the way, Houston is pushed into the background, with the translator.

    I like the way, one can hear and see those asking questions

    Should be compulsory for al political PC.
    No Abbott.

  382. Hockey sees nothing wrong about attending board rooms and accepting up to at least $22.000 for the pleasure. No wonder his waist line grew.,

  383. The lies keep coming.

    …………he “massive infrastructure gap” prime minister Tony Abbott has set out to fix does not exist, according to new analysis of state and territory budgets by the Grattan Institute.

    The analysis found states and territories have spent more on infrastructure in each of the past five years than in any comparable year since the Australian Bureau of Statistics first measured infrastructure spending in the 1980s, with road and rail projects contributing heavily towards a A$109 billion decline in state finances since 2006.

    “Contrary to popular understanding governments have been spending an awful lot on infrastructure over the past 10 years,” said Grattan Institute Fellow Cassie McGannon.

    She said the runaway spending had left states forced to give up spending on other things in order to pay mounting interest and depreciation costs.


  384. over $60 billion of borrowing SINCE the election cuppa. Does he take responsibility for that?

    Still waiting for the media to HOLD him responsible.

    Not holding my breath…

  385. I have to admit cuppa, they are holding him to account far more than they have to date. They still could go further, but what is happening at the moment is refreshing.

    It is a shame it didn’t happen back when Labor were attempting to wind back middle class welfare, the media just went to the ‘class warfare’ meme, but, it is improving. It appears that large sections of the media re having a real conversation about our budgetary position.

  386. Tom,

    After all Hockey’s ranting about “government borrowing” during the last four years or so, that the media gleefully megaphoned for him, the media are conspicuously silent now about HIS borrowing since coming to office. Yes, they’re starting to report more robustly generally, but it’s troubling that this one area of his gross hypocrisy is passed over. Let’s hope the scales fall from their eyes.

  387. One should keep in mind, the money unions give is collected from their individual members. Most unions used to ask, if one wanted to the ALP levy or not.

    Yes, it comes from individual people, the individual unionist. Collect by their union, on their behalf.

    Unions in general have no other income.

    Money from the corporate world, does not come from individuals.

    Maybe we will see Hockey turning up to the unions board rooms to see what we want. I( wonder how much he thinks he should charge.

  388. Headlines re: the developing Hockey story:

    “The questions Joe Hockey and the NSW Liberals didn’t answer”

    “Joe Hockey seeks legal advice over corporate donor accusations”

    “VIPs offered access to Hockey”

    “Joe Hockey’s diary should be an open book”

    “Only Joe Hockey can remove taint around personal fund-raiser”

  389. The ones between Hockey and the mining industry. The ones telling them he would leave the fuel rebate in place. removing that would ramie revenue by 13 billion over four years I believe.

    According to Mine, the IMF has concerned about such rebates world wide., Would assist dealing with carbon emissions as well, if abandoned.

    No Mr Hockey, you are not making hard decisions. You are taking the easiest way out.

    Milne also said leaving the MRRT in place, extending it to banks would be a worthwhile fix.

    Shame this is too hard for this government.

  390. As I said, ICAC will work it way down from the Central Coast, to the North Shore, and I believe to Libs head office.

    As I said, it was only art state level last week, but will move onto the Feds.

  391. Gee, it is hard work, keeping up with this mob, One foes not get time, to take a breath before we are moving onto the next development.

    What was that about Gillard leading a chaotic government.

    The ACTU announcement should not be missed.

  392. What was that about Gillard leading a chaotic government.

    Liberal Spin + pre-emptive RW Projection. 😀

  393. Has one noticed, that when Labor was in trouble during it’s reign, many here came out and fought tooth and nail for the government.

    Now it is the Coalition facing similar problems. Where are the Coalition supporters. They seem to have gone to ground. When they put their heads up, it is only to say haw bad Labor is/was.

    Nor one addresses the problems facing this government. Not one defends the policies.

    I wonder why?

  394. Current story at their ABC:

    Badgerys Creek: Jackie Kelly launches attack on PM Tony Abbott

    The former Liberal member for the key Western Sydney seat of Lindsay, Jackie Kelly, has launched a blistering attack on Tony Abbott

  395. I wonder why?

    Absolute proof how bad Abbott and this government is that their own cannot directly defend them or their actions.

    Absolute proof how bad Abbott and this government is that their own can only answer questions on the performance of this government by attacking Labor, and past Labor at that.

    How many times did they retort on our attacks against LOTO Abbott and the opposition that they aren’t in government, Labor is so the Liberal opposition should not be scrutinised or held to account, only the government should.

    Now the Liberals are in government yet again they shouldn’t be held to account only Labor when they were in government should be.

    Hypocrisy thy face is a Liberal supporter.

  396. So Abbott has his own slush fund in the form of the Warringah Forum, a body that peddles Abbott’s influence for donations.

  397. A very good point was raised in that Abbott went on and on about the faceless men of the Labor party, which was a successful denigration of the party even though the supposed faceless men were all known, named and had their pictures smeared over the media.

    On the other hand we have real faceless men behind Abbott and Hockey running secretive entity slush funds to peddle influence from wealthy companies and individuals so they pay less taxes and garner greater public subsidies by means of putting higher taxes and cutting subsidies for the public.

  398. Packer and Gynell, rolling in the gutter, in mortal combat would have been a sight to behold. What I do wonder, why does Packer need a body guard.

    I wonder what could have bought the friends to such a state of play.

  399. I wonder how the body guard separated them I hope he did not use the hose, as one does with dogs. It was a little cold last night.

  400. NSW Premier Mike Baird’s government is bracing for more political damage as a corruption inquiry over illegal donations shifts to the connections of building developers with another Liberal minister and at least one backbencher.

    The dealings of Sydney developers with Liberal Resources Minister Anthony Roberts and the Liberal member for New­castle, Tim Owen, will be pursued in the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption to determine whether either received donations that have been banned since 2009


  401. Nil of Sydney @ May 4, 2014 @ 4:38 pm “I actually live in Western Sydney.”

    ROFL!!! LOL As if we would not have suspected that, eh? He identifies as a Westie. LOL


  402. QandA is worth watching, if only to see the looks Pyne gets on his face, especially when the young woman lawyer is speaking. The young are not letting him off the hook.

  403. Highlighting this from you link ME

    The verdict

    Mr Bowen accurately quoted changes totalling $68 billion in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook.

    The MYEFO forecasts a budget deficit twice as large as it was in the PEFO. The economic assumptions in MYEFO are different from those used in the PEFO, and there is spending in the MYEFO that was not in the previous forecasts.

    It remains to be seen how the two sets of forecasts stand the test of time, but as of today, Mr Bowen’s claim checks out.

    I am relieved that the msm is finally starting to peel away the layers of deception the liberals are coating their agenda with. Many years too late, but at least it is happening.

  404. The Commission of Audit (lol) went well over %100 over budget

    It forgot about 50% of the formula in it’s calculations.

    Is this the kind of WASTE the opposition said they would find savings in once in power?

  405. Found it ME. Kinda 😉
    From the ever reliable grogs gamut

    The Commission of Audit is a rare example of a government attaching itself to a document that appears to hate Australia. Its recommendations start from a premise that the Australia which has become the envy of the world needs to be drastically changed. Notions of equality and fairness which have underpinned our health, education and welfare systems would be replaced with a view that efficiency trumps all.


  406. From that same article

    It also suggests Hecs should start being paid off at the minimum wage of $32,354 instead of the current threshold of $51,309. Fine if you get a good job after uni, but if you have to take a low paying job (as I did), well, bad luck.

    Let’s not forget that they want to lower the minimum wage, as I pointed out, in an ever decreasing downward spiral.

    I also heard Pyne say something last night about not touching hecs? I’ll have to wait for the qanda text to go up I think

  407. This is long. I would love to someone to explain how the audit report care about the people or the economy. It is more a report, on the best way to punish thee bottom half of the economy. Similar to their asylum policies. Based on punishment. If we punish, they will not use benefits.

    I would like the media to concentrate on the answer Pyne gave last night to a un4mjployed youth. Asking about a programme that gives these people support and into jobs. has been successful. All the man got, was sanctimonious tripe from Pyne. In fact that is all we got all night. In fact, it fitted in with above. This government cannot and will not afford anything that gives support for those on the bottom. It appears the are not worthy.

    We have the Liberal heavy weights out this morning, that the moderate 1% increase tax on those earning over $80,000 will lead to them having to curtail their spending.

    Of course, cutting from those who already spend every cent they get, will not have a worse effect on the economy.

    The commission’s report is a list of ideas without an assessment of their consequences. Photo: Louise Kennerley

    Who in their right mind would hit anyone with an effective marginal tax rate of 94 per cent?

    Australia’s top personal income tax rate has never hit 80 per cent. Labor’s resource super profits tax would have been 40 per cent applied to a 28 per cent company tax rate. Labor feared that any more would take away the incentive to mine.

    Yet the Commission of Audit wants to hit Australians moving from the dole back into the workforce with an effective marginal tax rate of 94 per cent on wages of $19,0000 to $32,000.

    This would stall their reward from work at close to $19,000 even as they took second and third part-time jobs.

    It’s not as if the commission is unaware of the concept of incentives. It mentioned them more than 70 times in its report released last week. It even mentioned “incentives to work”.

    At the moment, financial incentives dive as earned income passes $18,000. That’s when the 19 per cent income tax rate comes into play as well as the 60 cents by which Newstart is withdrawn for each extra dollar earned. Where one member of an otherwise employed couple is on Newstart it can amount to an effective marginal tax rate of 79 per cent. It is a minimal return for extra work, but it is something.

    At recommendation 27B the commission proposes boosting the withdrawal rate from 60 per cent to 75 per cent. It says it “represents a more appropriate targeting of safety net payments”. It would also represent an effective marginal tax rate of 94 per cent.

    It would all but eliminate the immediate financial return for either person in that couple taking on extra work.

    Whether the commission realises this is unclear. It certainly doesn’t mention it. Its chief concern is saving the government money. That’s fine as far as it goes, but at times it goes in the opposite direction to what the government is trying to achieve.

    The report begins with the commission’s 10 “Principles of Good Government”. There are exactly 10: Live within your means, protect the truly disadvantaged, respect personal responsibility; those sorts of things.

    What there isn’t is an attempt to address the question of what government is for and what it is trying to achieve. It is trying to achieve a lot more than protecting the truly disadvantaged. Among other things to get people into work. And to keep them alive.

    Which brings us to Medicare co-payments.

    It proposes them as a cost-saving measure: “From an economic perspective health care is like any other good or service in that utilisation increases dramatically when the marginal cost approaches zero,” it says.

    “There would be substantial benefit in addressing health costs if the community is more aware of the real costs of using the health care system.”

    Doubtless true, in the short-term.

    The Commission says it may “help to reduce demand for unnecessary or overused services”.

    It would. But it would also cut demand for timely services that stop people becoming sick and save costs later on.

    Most of the time when we go to the doctor we don’t know whether we are seriously sick. That’s why we go. Dissuading us from going when we think we are not particularly sick will at times also dissuade us from going when it turns out we are.

    The massive Rand Corporation experiment in the 1970s funded tens of thousands of visits to the doctor at different rates. Some were charged large co-payments, some small ones and some none.

    The Americans who were asked to pay did indeed visit the doctor less. But the study found that those who who stayed away were just as likely to have serious problems as trivial ones. In its words: “Cost sharing did not seem to have a selective effect”.

    Neither the Rand experiment nor a later comprehensive study by Australian health economist Jeff Richardson represent the final word. But it would be nice to think the commission even read them, or even considered the impact of its recommendations on health.

    It’s the same for the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Pushing up co-payments would save the government money. But the commission’s own talk about price signals suggests it would also dissuade people from obtaining prescription drugs. That would be a good thing if we overused them. It would be a bad thing if we needed them. It’s a question worth considering.

    The tragedy of the commission’s report is that virtually none of it could be adopted without more consideration. It’s a list of ideas without an assessment of their consequences.

    Governments need to be responsible. It’s unfortunate that the commission subtitled its report “Towards Responsible Government”.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/hockeys-commission-of-audit-anything-but-responsible-20140505-zr4nz.html#ixzz30tNwuGD2

  408. ICAC taking a break, to investigate serious new evidence. Police to be involved. could be months before hearings resume.

    Police investigating that public brawl, between the two millionaires.

  409. Can someone please explain how raising the tax intake from top income earners will lead to a reduction in consumption and disastrous for the economy. While at the same time, one can take from those who dispose of all their income as they earn it, will not be consuming less, when money is taken from them.

  410. One needs to keep in mind, all pay taxes, even those on benefits and low incomes. This is more so over the years, as we have moved from progressive income taxes, to regressive taxes such as the GST.

  411. Yes, money spent on things, that led Australia forwarded. Yes, investing in the future, that this government says we are so poor, we can no longer afford.

  412. And Hockey doesn’t say that at the time of the GFC and Labor’s stimulus announcement his alternate policy was only $4 billion less than the government’s spend. A pittance that would have made no difference to that graph.

    Problem for Hockey is that his proposal was along the same lines as the US and other massively failed European states, where the bulk of stimulus was given to large money institutions and big business.

  413. The verdict

    Mr Bowen accurately quoted changes totalling $68 billion in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook.

    The MYEFO forecasts a budget deficit twice as large as it was in the PEFO. The economic assumptions in MYEFO are different from those used in the PEFO, and there is spending in the MYEFO that was not in the previous forecasts.

    It remains to be seen how the two sets of forecasts stand the test of time, but as of today, Mr Bowen’s claim checks out.



  414. As much as some from thye right would love to believe. Man made climate change is still one of the most important issues facing this country and the globe. Is not going to go away.

    …..Climate change wreaking havoc in America’s backyard, scientists warn

    • Scientists hope to spur US to action with dire warning
    • Obama plans push to amplify findings of definitive report

    • What are the worst impacts facing America?


  415. Will they listen, I wonder. They ca nnot say they have not been warned.

    ;…………Jacob Greber Economics correspondent

    The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development has warned the Abbott government against large confidence sapping spending cuts or tax hikes.

    In a report written with input from Treasury officials that downgraded Australia’s growth outlook in 2015 to “below average”, the Paris-based OECD rang alarm bells about the dangers of relying too much on record-low interest rates to support the economy.

    Urging the Reserve Bank of Australia and other regulators to consider New-Zealand-style limits on what banks can lend to home buyers, it called for increased vigilance over the frothy property market and said interest rates would need to be hiked from early next year.

    “Rapid growth in house prices and mortgage lending requires continued close attention,” the OECD said in its latest global economic outlook. “Prudential measures on mortgage lending should not be ruled out as a targeted means to cool the market.”


    Cutting can and does lead to bigger deficits. Not much room to bring those interest rates down, if the dollar does fall, as one hopes, it will bring the danger of inflation rising.

  416. The truth is, in spite of what Costello is saying, a small cut to upper income earners will have little effect on consumption, The permanent and higher percentage of cuts to lower income earners, who form the bulk of the population, will see a drop in consumption from day one.

    That so called debt/deficit/death levy is only window dressing, to fool the majority into believing, all are doing the heavy lifting.

    It diverts attention from where the real harm is being done to the community and the economy.

  417. I am sick of hearing about the debt tax,. Is temporary, and those affected can afford to pay. Mr Cormann now says, the rich pay more tax than the poor. Pigs fly too,

    We need to get the focus back to the cuts of Abbott’s that are going to hurt the majority of lower income earners, those who do will be hurt.

    Another, Abbott did not have the guts to do away with, Yes, another of Howard’s handouts.

    ………..Key points
    •Excise on locally produced ethanol to be cut by more than 20c/L to compensate for loss of producer subsidy
    •The full 38c/L impost would still apply to the imported product

    THE $150 million annual subsidy to ethanol producers is set to be scrapped at the May 13 budget but a compromise has been struck to protect the local product in the aftermath by making it permanently cheaper than imports.

    After four separate and heated discussions by the budget razor gang, the expenditure review committee, it was agreed to phase out the 38c a litre production subsidy within about two years. The subsidy was initially set to stay in place until 2021 and then be reviewed.

    Under the compromise, once the subsidy was abolished, the excise on locally produced ethanol would be cut by more than 20c a litre while the full 38c a litre would still apply to the imported product.

    This excise differential will act as an effective tariff but sources rejected suggestions of protectionism, saying it was policy to change excise rates on biofuels to reflect their energy content and there would be no contravention of World Trade Organisation rules.

    The change will save the budget between $600 million and a $1 billion over four years once implemented.

    The compromise has headed off what was looming as a bitter fight in the Coalition with Nationals and rural Liberal MPs opposed to welching on the promise to subsidise ethanol until at least 2021.

    The government had been budgeting to lose $600 million over the next four years through the rebate. Now, it does not have to pay that money and also will start collecting excise revenue once the compromise deal starts.

    Like the Productivity Commission and the Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics (BREE) before it, the Audit Commission slammed the 38c a litre subsidy as failing to develop a viable local industry while acting as a protectionist measure to keep out cheaper imports. It recommended that it, along with 16 other industry


  418. 01.Budget crisis – how did we get there?

    Different opinions have been sounded recently on whether or not the federal budget is in crisis and whether deep cuts and new taxes will do harm or good.

    The fact is that the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook (MYEFO) released last December projected a deficit of $47bn for 2013-14 and a total of a deficit of $123bn over the four years of the forward estimates.

    There are a number of government decisions going back to the Howard years that have been blamed for the current crisis:

    Petrol excise

    November 2001 election campaign (shortly after introduction of the GST): PM Howard reduced indexation of petrol by 1.5 cents a litre and ended the twice-a-year indexation of the excise. The petrol excise has remained since then at 39.14 cents a litre, while fuel prices have risen from less than $1 per litre to up to $1.60 per litre in some areas.
    This resulted in a loss of revenue of $5bn, according to News Corp.

    GFC stimulus

    December 2008 and February 2009: Under PM Rudd, two massive stimulus programs were announced to boost the Australian economy during the GFC. These included a one-off $950 cash payment to eligible Australians, a free ceiling insulation scheme, a school building and upgrade program, and increases to the First Home Owner Grant.
    First stimulus in December came at a cost of $10.4bn; $42bn for the Nation Building and Jobs Plan.

    Deficit blow-out

    The Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Outlook released in August 2013 estimated a $54.6bn deficit over four years, less than half of the $123bn estimated by the MYEFO in December.

    How did it blow out so much by December that year? According to ABC Fact check there are a couple of reasons it has appeared to double over this period, including:
    Changes to government spending, which include, for example, an $8.8bn grant paid to the RBA, accounting for $13.7bn.
    A gloomier economic outlook leading to lower projected government revenue from tax adding $37.8bn.

    Of course, both the MYEFO and PEFO are estimates and a lot can happen over four years – not forgetting policy and tax changes in the upcoming budget – so how our economy and the budget deficit really look in four years’ time remains to be seen

    Read more: http://www.choice.com.au/media-and-news/consumer-news/news/2014-budget-countdown-6-days-to-go.aspx#ixzz3115Jm5Yf

  419. I noted that former minister Garrett has been completely exonerated. The detail is that although a public servant had been told that the use of staples on one type of insulation had been found to have caused deaths in New Zealand, that the public servant had failed to advise the minister, going with advise from the insulation industry rather than advice from electricians. I await with baited breath about an inquiry into deaths on mine sites in Qld and WA, owned and managed by Gina and Twiggy.

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