435 comments on “Open Thread XV

  1. Will Abbott only be remember for MSSO each QT, mostly based on lies.

    He managed to get pink bats and the burning down of your home in once again today. I think he gave school halls a miss.

    One of the most unreliable sources used extensively by News Ltd publications, Ray Hadley, and the ABC, was Craig Mayne, who was routinely described as a ‘whistleblower’ and a ‘civil engineer’. Mayne also wrongly claimed experience as a project manager in the construction industry. I wrote a piece about this in July 2010, which can be accessed at Google by typing: Analyzing Craig Mayne’s full claims.

    Mayne’s credentials to be called an expert analyst are shaky and his experience in the construction industry is minimal – in fact when appearing at the Primary Schools for the 21st Century (P21) inquiry by the Senate Education, Employment and Workplace Relations Committee on May 19, 2010 he was finally forced to admit he had not been employed in that industry in any capacity since before 1986. He also admitted he was not a civil engineer, although he had left uncorrected repeated media mentions attributing this qualification to him.

    His submission to the Primary Schools for the 21st Century (P21) inquiry contains errors such as claiming Education Queensland would manage almost $5 billion worth of Federal funds (it was actually about $2.24 billion for all three components of the BER); taking out of context a quote from Queensland’s Department of Public Works; falsely claiming that more than $1.7 billion in work had been allocated in Queensland to builders without tender; and justifying an analysis of projected costs of $200,000 against projected costs of $850,000 library at Hendra State school by saying he contacted a Queensland home builder to find out how much it would cost for a building of the same size.

    Yes, that is the same Hendra State School examined by the Orgill inquiry’s VFM case study quoted above. The school was also visited three times by the inquiry – in June 2010, in November 2010 and in June 2011.

    Yet Mayne was praised by Anne Connolly, of the ABC News Online Investigative Unit, in an article ‘BER issues slip under the media radar’ on 31 May 2010. She wrote: “It’s worth pointing out that much of the financial analysis comparing standards with public school costs has been done by a dogged former P&C president and civil engineer from Queensland, Craig Mayne, who gathered publicly available data and pieced the puzzle together and all for The Australian’s benefit.”

    Connolly, a former Walkley Award winner, wrote this article 12 days after Mayne’s appearance at the Senate inquiry where not only was the civil engineer claim shown to be false, but that under questioning Mayne admitted he had not been employed in the construction industry for just on 25 years.

    In this article Connolly was very much “Anne of Queensland fables”.

    In the second article of this series, I will discuss more of the fables that follow as a result of these claims of $8 billion BER ‘waste’


  2. Great. A drinking partner and a waitress. Min, I’ll join you while Bacchus grabs the drinks list. 🙂

  3. No Roswell – I was distracted by a siren my wife with a very nice Moroccan lamb accompanied by an interesting Spanish red. Hang on – I’ll slip into my waitress’ outfit to take your order. I fear Min may have deserted you by now though – sorry about that 😦

  4. Miglo…I’m totally shocked that Australia was awash for 25,000 years, the whole island must have been abundant with food during that cool wet phase.

  5. And they may have discovered another group in China that failed to survive the LGM.

    ‘THEY have been dubbed the Red Deer Cave people and they are a big mystery. Fossils of this previously unknown group of prehistoric humans, who lived as recently as 11,500 years ago, have been discovered in south-west China by a team that includes Sydney researchers.

    ‘Their highly unusual mix of archaic and modern features raises the possibility that they represent a new species of human.’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/lost-for-11500-years–another-part-of-the-family-20120314-1v3r7.html#ixzz1p7rNe5jA

  6. Oh dear what a shame

    “CANBERRA created a ”disease” when the government launched a new tax on mining profits, and that disease had spread around the world, according to a prominent goldmining executive.

    Perseus Mining managing director Mark Calderwood’s comments follow Indonesia’s recent rule change on mine ownership and his own company’s battles with rising taxes in Ghana.

    Ghana is reliant on funding from the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, and Mr Calderwood said he could only assume those organisations were sympathetic to bigger taxes on miners.

    Meanwhile, many Australian companies remain uncertain over the full impact of Indonesia’s proposed changes to foreign ownership in its mining industry.”

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/mining-tax-disease-has-spread-globally-20120314-1v3hn.html#ixzz1p7xwmbND

    So according to the executive, ghana owns the gold, the world bank and imf who lend money to ghana have said, get the miners to pay you tax.

  7. El gordo, I didn’t say Australia was awash for 25,000 years, I said there was a civilization at Lake Mungo for 25,000 years until the lakes dried up 15,000 years ago.

  8. I wonder if the MSSO in QT yesterday was Abbott adopting a “Chuck Norris” persona. Chuck Norris the martial arts or kick arse genre actor

    “Norris shares his own political views through his column in the conservative World Net Daily and, in 2008 under the heading Guns, God and gays, he outlined his views on homosexuality and described it as “aberrant sexual behaviour”.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/team-quirk-makes-fist-of-campaign-20120313-1uy5j.html#ixzz1p82e1WqJ

    Abbott and Morrisson possibly read the Norris column, and makes me wonder if the 5 coalition mps thrown out of qt had an alternative reason for being disruptive.

    Is the Norris column circulated through the c bernardi web site?

  9. Me too.

    In regards to Australian being awash I was referring to paleo stuff on the previous open thread. I will dig it up.

  10. ‘The high lake level recorded in the beach deposits of Lake Tyrrell is in accord with data from elsewhere in southeastern Australia. This indicates that a major wet (lake-full) phase existed from prior to 50,000 years up to just after 30,000 BP.

    From the semiarid regions, the high lake phase was first recognized by Bowler (1971) at Lake Mungo as existing prior to 26,000 years BP and at Lake Frome before 30,000 years BP (Bowler, 1981; Callen, 1983). Elsewhere in southeastern Australia it was recognized as occurring prior to 25,000 years BP at Lake George (Coventry, 1976), at about 36,000 to 30,000 years BP at Lake Leake (Dodson, 1975), and at Lancefield Swamp (Gillespie et al., 1978) prior to 26,000 years BP.

    ‘The change from high lake levels to an environment conducive to lunette formation represents by far the greatest single hydrological change in northwestern Victoria over the last 50,000 years. Indeed, in order to produce a lunette at Lake Tyrrell, after drying of the lake conditions would need to be even more arid (at least seasonally) than they are today.’

  11. ABC News Radio is having a poll on whether Costello should have go the job.

    Penny Wong said the government wanted a proven business leader. Mr. Costello did not meet this criteria.

    If Mr. Costello had been given no positions in the business community.

    It was also pointed out that Mr. Keating was not offered the role.

    The man appointed meets all the desired criteria.

    If one would like to vote.


  12. CU
    so the abc is cutting out news ltd and newspoll

    so the idiots at the abc think that the public know more about financial investment leadership for the nations future fund

    come on the right wing shock jocks the abc needs more of you

  13. The business seems to be aghast at Mr. Abbott’s recent actions. I believe there is pressure being put on him to reconsider.

    No wonder the PM looks so relaxed.

    There is a good chance that thanks to Mr. Abbott, the threshold for definition of small business will rise dramatically..

    Big business will miss out on the lowering of the tax, with the majority going to further down the ladder. Maybe the proposed dental and disability scheme will begin earlier.

    Would not be a bad outcome for the nation.

    That is genuine support for small business and the needy.

    Maybe I am just dreaming a little, but one thing for sure, it will backfire on Mr. Abbott.

    I do not feel that he scare campaign will worry many. I just do not believe many will but the proposition that many believe the PM is to blame for a feud between a small number of criminal families.

    Yesterday reveal the Opposition in it’s true light, a party that has little to offer modern day Australia. The whining of the Opposition over Mr. Costello not being appointed is beyond belief.

    I cannot recall a Opposition that has so many whiny sounding voices in their midst.

    All of Mr. Abbott’s scares and forecasts of doom, up to now have come to nought. The sky had not fallen in.

    To add insult to injury, the world economy seems to be turning, albeit slowly for the better.

    Mr. Abbott cannot win going down his present track. The PM cannot lose, no matter the outcome.

    The Australian people just might win.

  14. On the subject of never stand in the way between a mining magnate and a dollar, it seems that Palmer is threatening action in the High Court, however…

    When asked on precisely what grounds the tax is unconstitutional, Mr Palmer said: “I can only go on the advice that I’m given, and so we’ll be looking forward to the challenge.”

    Damn, I was looking forward to what Palmer’s response might be, because I personally can’t think of where any High Court challenge might be remotely successful.


  15. “CANBERRA created a ”disease” when the government launched a new tax on mining profits, and that disease had spread around the world, according to a prominent goldmining executive”

    Sue, if remember back to when this debate first began, this was one of their greatest fears.

    Why would they believe that. I say, because they know the tax is fair, and that the game of ripping off countries and their people is now over.

    This PM and the previous one are ahead of the game.

  16. Ridout is saying it is a tax reform, not a tax cut.

    It is time for the cut off line for small business to be raised from two million dollars a year. Maybe five or even ten million would be more reasonable.

  17. Sue, the debate was interesting on the ABC news radio this morning, they just ignored what they were talking about.

    The thing that was clear is that Mr. Costello in not suitable for the job. The information they gave back this up.

    I noticed the poll is going Costello’s way.

    If he had manage to obtain at least one position, we might be able to say otherwise.

    Mr. Costello has literally achieved nothing since he retired as a relatively young man.

    Why the present board wanted him is not explained.

    If I was him, I would count myself lucky to have a seat on the board.

  18. CU

    yep , that is what the all out attack by miners was about “the disease” spreading around the world.

    for developing countries a tax may alleviate the bigger issue of kickbacks and bribes.

  19. “Sorry Sue, but any stories pertaining to do with anthropology fascinate me too”

    Must interest Mr. Abbott too. That is where his mind seems to have got struck, back in the distant past, where he seems to reside.

  20. Min, he muttered something about the fact, in his eyes one cannot tax something that you cannot see or that does not exist. Not too sure I heard correctly what he said, but that seemed to be the gist of it.

    Borrowed I believe from Mr. Abbott’s statement that it has no weight.

    If one cannot see something, it does not exist and therefore untaxable.

    I might be wrong, but that is my concept of what is been said.

  21. Maybe this is the problem that the Opposition is having. Men fall to pieces when dealing with women.

    Maybe it is not the men’s fault that they cannot operate.

    Do not know why Labor men do not appear to have the same problem.

    Why Interacting with a Woman Can Leave Men “Cognitively Impaired”
    In one experiment, just telling a man he would be observed by a female was enough to hurt his psychological performance.


    In today’s society people frequently interact with each other over the phone or online, where the only way to infer somebody’s gender is through their name or voice. Nauts’ research suggests that even with these very limited interactions, men may experience cognitive impairment when faced with the opposite sex. Although the studies on their own don’t offer any concrete explanations, Nauts and her colleagues think that the reason may have something to do with men being more strongly attuned to potential mating opportunities. Since all of their participants were both heterosexual and young, they might have been th

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-interacting-with-woman-leave-man-cognitively-impairedinking about whether the woman might be a potential date.

  22. It appears that the PM is not into vengeance. That is nice to see on politics.

    I am sure the same person does not forget any hurts done to her, but is able to move on. A rare trait in this modern world.

    KEVIN Rudd has been appointed to parliament’s intelligence and security committee.

    The Labor MP replaces colleague Daryl Melham who stepped down from the joint houses body to make way for the former foreign minister.


    Am listening to a rerun of Senate QT. Senator Wong appears to have given up on hiding her anger. About time.

    Why are they still conducting the scare campaign on the carbon tax.

    I can see where it might be worthwhile, if they had a chance of unseating the government and their lies would not be proven.

    Everything they are now saying, will be quickly proven wrong after July. It just does not make sense. Then anything the Opposition does, makes little sense.

  23. ‘You have to know when to retire graciously from a lost cause, but yesterday Newt Gingrich kept talking and talking and shrinking and shrinking. Gingrich, who once knew glory and power as majority leader and Speaker of the House in the US Congress, was incapable of seeing the obvious.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/reminder-of-rudd-as-gingrich-clings-on-20120314-1v3nk.html#ixzz1p8ZinbRK

    Maybe this is the advice that Mr. Abbott should take on board.

    Lost causes are just not worth fighting.

  24. This writer has my full support. I am glad we have a minister of Mr. Smith’s ability in Defence.

    You have to know when to retire graciously from a lost cause, but yesterday Newt Gingrich kept talking and talking and shrinking and shrinking. Gingrich, who once knew glory and power as majority leader and Speaker of the House in the US Congress, was incapable of seeing the obvious.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/reminder-of-rudd-as-gingrich-clings-on-20120314-1v3nk.html#ixzz1p8ZinbRK

  25. Dr Nelson says defence minister was the hardest job he has ever had.

    “Over the years I have had the privilege to have had a number of leadership roles… to this very day apart from parenting, I think that being the minister for defence was the most challenging, the most difficult, but also the most rewarding job that I have ever had the privilege to do,” he said.


  26. Public opinion does not seem to back his opinion. Who says that Mr. Smith wants to be PM.

    Mr. Smith reputation has grown in my humble opinion. What would I know, I am only a humble old woman.

    I am still waiting to hear the opinion as least one high ranking woman in the forces. The silence is deafening.

    STEPHEN Smith is a diminished and damaged Defence Minister. He will certainly now never be prime minister. That he has produced such a toxic relationship between himself and the uniformed soldiers of the Australian Defence Force is, whichever way you cut it, a dreadful failure on his part.


  27. Emphasis mine.

    Why, they could’ve been cycled into a sovereign wealth fund – and a Rudd-Gillard-Swan government could have had three or four building the education-style splurges instead of just the $16 billion wasted in one.
    But of course, they would have only spent even more money “wisely”.
    He proposes that the fund could be drawn upon when revenues cyclically declined.

    Hello? Knock knock? Of course it would never be used as a slush fund by a future government. Politicians would never think of doing that.
    Breathtakingly he suggests this would build a culture where taxpayers’ money would not be treated as a “right or entitlement of government”. But held as a fiduciary, on trust, to be used in the national interest.
    He is completely incapable of understanding that government which over-taxes – which is exactly what he is promoting – is precisely claiming a right or entitlement to your money.


  28. Palmer is thinking of buying into Fairfax…joining Gina…I’m looking for a troika.

    Hate media to the right of us
    Hate media to the left

  29. el gordo, it has not helped Gina much.

    The Fairfax headlines are still striking.

    So much nose about not wanting to pay taxes, is all the feud is about.

    We will all have to get earplugs soon to shut out the whines coming from a small handful of the wealthy and Opposition.

  30. This is a shame.

    The planned shakeup of the tax treatment of Australia’s 660,000 trusts is now unlikely go ahead of the next election on July 1 2013 as had been promised.

    Treasury official Graeme Cuxson told the Tax Institute’s national convention there was a case for delaying the start date and the Treasurer would soon announce an amended timetable.

    “If – and I note that it is an if – there is a later start date, it will allow for more time for consultations,” he said.


  31. The Senator says it all. I wonder which Senator has trouble seeing the truth, blinded by ideology and lack of vision.

    But Senator Wong says Cabinet chose Mr Gonski because he was the best person for the job.

    “Whilst Mr Costello has many qualities, he has not been asked by the Australian business community to chair any listed company, he’s not been asked by the Australian business community to run a large financial institution, and those were the sorts of competencies that we wanted to ensure the chair of the Future Fund had, and David Gonski has those,” she said.


    Shadow Assistant Treasurer Mathias Cormann says the Government was blinded by politics when it made the decision.

    “The Government was not able to make a decision on who was the best person to lead the Future Fund moving forward without being blinded by their political bias, which stopped them from appointing Peter Costello, who would have done a very good job,” Senator Cormann said.


  32. Could not agree more.

    Climate Change Minister Greg Combet says the carbon price legislation is on “very firm ground” constitutionally.

    “Clive Palmer lists one of his hobbies as litigation and he seems to launch plenty of legal cases or threatened to, so I see it in that category,” he told ABC News 24.

    “It’s not really a serious proposition. Frankly Clive Palmer would be better spending the wealth he’s generated out of the minerals boom on reducing the greenhouse gas emissions in of his operations than spending it on high-priced lawyers.”


  33. Miglo,

    It’s working for me on my mobile device.

    Mr. Costello has done a lot of complaining in his lap life when he hasn’t been handed the job that he wanted, this is just another example.

  34. Maybe Mr. Abbott can learn to check before opening his trap.

    Mr Abbott says that means customers will end up paying more.

    “Turn on the lights, you pay. Open the fridge, you pay. Get on a plane, you pay. And now it seems turn up at Westfield you pay, and that’s just the nature of the carbon tax,” he said.

    The Shopping Centre Council of Australia has released a statement saying the provision has been in Westfield’s rental agreements for several years.

    But it does agree that costs will be passed on.


  35. Light whimsy is my natural humour, thanx for noticing.


    If Palmer joins Gina at Fairfax it will give them more clout in exposing the global warming scam. Editorial independence may have to be sacrificed for the universal good.

  36. Precisely…and exactly what Indonesia has been saying ever since Tony first said that he’d turn the boats back..

    INDONESIAN Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa has declared it would be “impossible” and “not advisable” to turn asylum-seeker vessels around mid-voyage in a direct criticism of Tony Abbott’s central border protection policy.


  37. By the way, the the senate was on ABC 2. The HoR on ABC 24.

    Abbott pulled up by Speaker.

    He is challenging speaker.

    Calling the PM a lie is just not on.

    He sounds so desperate.

    Pyne making a fool of himself.

  38. Hunt and Abbott leaving the chamber together. Mr. Abbott body language is interesting.

    Well he would have to go out side if he wants to talk to his deputy.

    Once again Hockey pulled into line for calling people lies.

    My job was to tell the government what the board said. How does that become a recommendation of Mr. Gronski.

    Hockey sounds like he is ready to cry. He is very emotional. I believe the train has left the station for all of them, and they do not like it.

    46th MSSO.

    The Attorney General is correct, they are extremely upset. Why?, is the question.

  39. ‘and that protects democracy.’

    It’s a hard call, I admit, but all the Fairfax stable will need to be debriefed.

  40. Mr. Hockey and Mr. Robb happy with the appointment yesterday.

    What change over night.

    Maybe the criticism from the business community of his opposition to tax cuts.

  41. CU the “guardians” is a name thought up at the start of the FF. maybe a costello iniatative .
    All other boards have members.

  42. CU @ 12.25
    thanks for the link for statement by Penny Wong.

    i was so angry with the MSSO today. It is good to see Wong saying it loud and clear Costello ain’t good enough.
    Even business’ in Australia wouldn’t give him a go, let alone the ones he went for o/s. The offer by Rudd at the time Costello decided to quit politics EARLY was a face saver. But it looks as though Costello has forgotten how he didn’t have the qualities required by private enterprise.

  43. Is the present speaker in the lower house actually sober. I suspect not. I am referring to the member from Flynn and his backers. Long liquid lunch I suspect. Could be wrong.

  44. Talk about ,making a mockery of parliament. They are all drunk.

    Speaker changed. I suspect he felt things were going too far.

  45. Pyne Serious matter. Illegal importation of weapons. Adjournment debate.

    As the Attorney General said earlier, there are many more important things, the floods for one.

    It is a joke, sadly it is not funny.

  46. Causal link between the bikies wars and this government.

    And boats coming to Australia.

    Not sure were the link is.

    Massive blow out in migration budget, fill up by cuts in the custom budgets.

    They are serious I believe.

  47. Adelaide is now inflicted with lawlessness. His constituents are afraid, If not, I am sure they will be after he stirs them up.
    That was Pyne’s contribution.

  48. Strange – I can post with a made up email address, but when I iuse my real address, I get:

    You must be logged in to comment with that email address

    You makin’ some changes under the bonnet Migs, or do we have a WordPress problem?

  49. Bacchus, we have a WordPress problem. So far it’s without rhyme or reason – some people with WordPress gravatars are able to post, whereas others cannot. Some people without WordPress gravatars are able to post whereas others cannot.

    Some can post from mobile devices, others cannot.

    There doesn’t seem to be any sort of constant about this at all. I’ll email AntonyG. He hasn’t been able to post all day and ask if he can try posting if he uses a different email address.

  50. Tom R and Roswell have contacted me to say they can’t post comments either. There’s an issue with WordPress that I need to look into.

  51. Well there you go. WordPress won’t accept our old email addresses and those with WordPress accounts have to log in again. I’m happy being purple although I did like my former grey green self.

  52. This is what I was trying to explain earlier.

    See why I had a problem.

    CLIVE PALMER: No, I didn’t. No, never worked in a prosecutor’s – no, I never worked in a prosecutor’s office, but we think it’s unconstitutional. You can’t really tax carbon. The other thing about it of course is it’s a joke because the air moves right around the world. If you tax something in Australia, those initiatives will go offshore, those jobs will go offshore and the same amount of carbon will be emitted in the atmosphere. What we need is a global approach to the taxing of carbon or the regulating of carbon, regulating of industry. We don’t want something that discriminates against Australian industry and Australian workers.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-march-15-2012-20120315-1v52k.html#ixzz1pAOlFazW

    Listening to Howard in Queensland, His words identical to Abbott.

    Can someone give me a list of the many Laborites that Mr. Howard appointed to boards and bodies.

  53. Thanx for asking Miglo…as a citizen journalist I feel the urge to visit the inner santum, but I have reservations….

    By the way, the mild winter in the US has been put down to natural variability. This from NASA…and not a word on AGW.

    ‘2012’s relatively light snowfall is the result of two atmospheric processes, according to climatologist Bill Patzert of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

    ‘One is the La Niña conditions in the Pacific, which result in less moist air crossing the continental United States. The other is a strong Arctic Oscillation that keeps cold arctic air around the North Pole and away from more southern latitudes.’

    ‘The other thing about it of course is it’s a joke because the air moves right around the world,’ said Mr Palmer.

    Yes, I’ll pay that.

  54. El gordo, I think that you’re an honorable person. We disagree about mostly everything with the exception of anthropology. You have never sockpuppeted, and you are always welcome here. Just my opinion…

  55. Also, the Death Star spotted by some cranks is really just a filament or sumthin’.

    The Mothership crew is highly amused … you humans … :mrgreen:

  56. That’s fine, el gordo. It’s ugly in there anyway. It’s our version of front bar talk but with members only.

    Now it’s about time I went to the club raffle. I’d like to win a cutlery set.

  57. Can I have a PW for FYI please. Very limited internet where I am, and believe me it’s as remote as it get. Plus is in the blackest night I’ve experienced there were more stars and brighter than I’ve ever seen in my life, plus a beautifully stark milky white Milky Way.

    Oh, and I saw a UFO. Have other witnesses who also saw it.

    PS. We have a probable logical explanation for what we saw, maybe.

  58. Someone else trying to make sense of Pyne’s little speech. It made as much sense as Mr. Hunt’s effort on ABC24. (None)

    You can’t make this stuff up
    As unlikely as it may seem, there are days when Parliament debates substantial issues – climate change, mining revenue, the woeful lack of mental health infrastructure …

    And then there are days like today.

    We had Christopher Pyne, Shadow Spokesperson for Education and Manager of Opposition Business in the House, launch into a full-throated attack. His argument seemed to be a variation of ‘for want of a nail, etc’, but somewhere along the line his logic became a little tangled.

    Let’s see if we can tease it out:

    * the government has terrible border protection policies (read: people are coming here in boats!)

    * because they have terrible border protection policies, they have to spend lots and lots of extra money trying to fix things (read: stop the evil refugees seeking our help at all costs!)

    * because they spend money trying to ‘fix’ border protection, more guns have turned up in Australia (wait, what?)

    * because there are more guns, there are more bikie gang wars in South Australia

    * therefore, the government is responsible for bikie gang wars in South Australia because they didn’t stop the boats.

    No, I’m not kidding.

    Of course, you can see the nasty little implication, can’t you? All these evil boat people who the government can’t keep out must be bringing the guns in with them … and presumably selling them to their bikie contacts in Adelaide. Perhaps it was even all planned th


  59. Oh, and I saw a UFO. Have other witnesses who also saw it.

    We’de rather you kept that QT, Adrian … :mrgreen:

  60. The absurd.

    And then we truly entered the realm of the ridiculous. Abbott attempted to suspend standing orders for the 46th time since the Gillard minority government came to power. In itself, that would have been enough to qualify as a stupid waste of Parliamentary time. It was the substance of the motion, however, that carried the day.

    Abbott called on Gillard to ‘explain herself’. Why hadn’t she appointed Costello? What did she think she was doing? How dare she and Finance Minister Penny Wong make a decision that didn’t slavishly follow a recommendation with which he agreed?

    It was unbelievable. Here was Abbott attempting to take the government to task for not practising nepotism – not providing ‘jobs for the boys’. This was the same Opposition that pointed the finger and cried foul when former Labor leader Kim Beazley was appointed as our US Ambassador (while conveniently failing to complain when former Nationals leader Tim Fisher became Ambassador to the Vatican). There should be no favouritism – apparently unless it means that a former big-name Liberal misses out on a plum government job.


    Where is the media outcry.

  61. One of yours then TB?

    Morrison also ran the same line but prompted by an O’Farrell claim that he’s losing control of law and order because of the Federal government spending too much money on refugees.

    Methinks the Libs have some private polling that is not so hot for them and are desperate, really, really desperate.

  62. And before people make fun of the gordo bit meaning fat, I have a sneaking suspicion that this is part of someone’s loved one’s name.

  63. And it got worse. Gonski was an ‘outsider’, Abbott argued. How can we trust him to do the job properly?

    This from the man who outright accused Treasury of corruption in order to justify bringing in an outside accounting firm to go over the Coalition’s costings during the 2010 election campaign.

    Remember, all of this was in context of Abbott attempting to interrupt the normal business of the House. The matter of Peter Costello not getting a job was so important that all other business had to immediately cease.


  64. But really, it was Hockey who walked away with the award for the week’s Most Nonsensical Argument, when he rose to second the motion.

    Basically, it boiled down to this: it’s OUR Fund and it’s OUR turn. (Insert metaphorical foot stamp and pout.)

    Yes, you see, it was a Coalition government that created the Future Fund. It’s too good for the likes of some grubby little Labor appointee. Why, you could say it’s … it’s … Costello’s birthright! Hand it over at once, and let the man lead as he was born to do!

    Okay, I may be paraphrasing a little there. But this … is pure Hockey. This was how he wound up his speech:

    ‘If the government won’t do the right thing and appoint Peter Costello to chair the Future Fund … then they should get out of the way and let us govern!’

    (Flourish, decisive nod of the head, retire to seat and stare at the government in self-righteous indignation.)


  65. Mobius, and things fairly crook in Victoria..

    The state budget has fallen deeply into the red as the strong dollar, a housing slowdown, international uncertainty and job losses hit the bottom line.

    State Treasury’s budget update has revealed Victoria recorded a deficit of $341 million during the final six months of last year, compared to a surplus of $482 million for the same six month period in 2010.


  66. The matter of Peter Costello not getting a job was so important that all other business had to immediately cease.

    … but, but … Tip Custard, only wants a job if he’s asked … so he wasn’t asked … what’s the problem?

  67. Thing is Min under a Labor state government, as it was in NSW, it is all their fault. Now under Liberal state government’s it’s all external factors, the previous Labor state government and the Federal Labor government’s fault.

    There is one thing absolutely certain when you have Liberals in power. It is always someone else’s fault when things are crook or they stuff up and it’s always their doing if things go well, even when it’s demonstrably not their doing.

    Howard was a master at this shifting of reality, aided and abetted by a compliant media, just as the state Liberal government’s are getting mostly a favourable run now.

  68. What did? :mrgreen:

    The glowing discy thing moving erratically in the sky with a prancing horse head hood ornament and TB private number plate registered in Queensland.

  69. Tanks, but not for long methinks. Hotting up here, work wise and very long isolated days are bound to get longer.

  70. Catching up @ 6.51pm, on Hockey, pointing at the Speaker [very rude], and waving his arms in fury:-

    (Flourish, decisive nod of the head, retire to seat and stare at the government in self-righteous indignation.)

    If Joe Hockey drops that bottom lip any further he’ll trip over it!

  71. Sounds like a UFO to me, mate, my 8yo g/son is watching Dr Who as I type – you never know!

    (Between you and me, The Mothership, is light years away … I’m not complaining … I rather like your planet … ‘specially you humans … :mrgreen:)

  72. Don’t Motherships have little ships they send around the place to probe and suck up cows?

    This was a little ship.

  73. Mobius, that’s certainly been the way things go. When the Liberals were in power, it was Labor States’ fault.

    I think that in a way this is where Rudd went wrong – he promised no retribution..he should have. His generosity towards enemies was never returned in kind.

  74. This was a little ship.

    Not from, The Mothership, they only big mother &^%%&’s …

    … perhaps its aliens? :mrgreen:

  75. Min — you don’t wanna know … the little bugger knows all about the 11 Dr Whos including the NEW Dr Who! My fave was Number Four …

  76. Is it not alleged facts. They have not been confirmed in a court of law. They will remain that until a conviction is made.

    Mr. Abbott or anyone else at this time, knows the full facts.

    ‘On the known facts of this case, it looks like an open and shut case of criminal misappropriation of money,’ Mr Abbott told reporters in Canberra on Thursday.

    ‘Now, why it has taken so long to investigate this, why has it taken so long to provide justice to the members of the Health Services Union to demonstrate that the law applies to everyone, even powerful trade union officials? Well that is a question that the government must answer.’


  77. If you were trying to explain to glorified apes that they aren’t the only ones in the universe, how would you go about it?

    Trial and error, using crop circles as a means of communicating in a non threatening way.

    It must be having an effect because 75% of Australians believe in extraterrestrials.

  78. Is he a worthy contender. I believe not.

    I am also reminded of Paul Keating’s assessment of Peter Costello when goodie two-shoes Prime Minister Rudd had a warped good samaritan experience and appointed Costello to the Future Fund’s Board of Guardians:

    Keating said in late 2009:
    Mr Keating accused Mr Costello of presiding over the growth of Australian debt abroad from $129 billion in 1996, to $705 billion in 2007.
    ‘‘The Future Fund is all about national savings, yet, during Costello’s period as treasurer, national savings were so depleted,’’ he said.
    ‘‘Costello was a policy bum of the first order who squandered 11 years of economic opportunity.’’
    That may be a slight exaggeration, but the sentiment is spot on.


  79. Tom of the long scarf and jellybabies, Min …


    egg, do you have a link to prove that 75% of Australians believe in extraterrestrials …

    Just askin’ … part of my mission curious nature … :mrgreen:

  80. It must be having an effect because 75% of Australians believe in extraterrestrials.

    Around that amount also believe in a Christian God based on no evidence of one whatsoever. Wonder what that says?

    At least I and others saw something that was tangible and if I could have photographed would have.

  81. I don’t have a problem with saying that I’ve seen UFOs..my dad and I used to do a lot of sky watching. Eldest swears that she has had out of body experiences, no drugs, she saw herself floating above another place and not as in a dream but being there.

    But that’s an easy one..but then I’m a channel for Osho 😉

  82. I picked this up from a little known shadowy blog called Amazing Australian Stats.

    More Aussies believe in aliens than in God;
    80% of Aussies believe in the existence of aliens somewhere in space and 74% believe in God.

  83. More Aussies believe in aliens than in God;

    … that’s a silly statement … aliens are gods …

    You humans :mrgreen:

  84. Damn out by 1%.

    Productivity down in Australia.

    Down because of large investment by the mining sector but up in just about every other sector.

    Productivity mostly stagnant under Howard across all sectors except mining and despite his promise of WorkChoices being the panacea, it did not lift at all and went backwards in some sectors during WorkChoices.

  85. … the existence of aliens somewhere in space …

    … and we all know that, that, is a “limited” belief … :mrgreen:


  86. Lots of useful information on that site el gordo…

    “Australia also accounts for 2.5% of global greenhouse gas emissions, considering Aussies only make up 0.3% of the world’s population that is a pretty high figure.”

    “John Howard, Australia’s Prime Minister up to 2007, spent $27,196 on alcohol during the year ending July 2004 at his official residences, The Lodge and Kirribilli House, that works out to more than $500 a week!”

    “Statistics from the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research showed 1600 people were charged with committing offences in the state’s “places of worship” in 2008 while only 282 people were charged in premises classified as adult entertainment over the same offences. This means that you are safer in a brothel or stripclub than in a church!!”

    “Aussies spot between 1000 and 1500 UFOs per year.”

    “99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.”



  87. Now Peter Costello says he’s not doing a dummy spit while he does a dummy spit!

    Costello savages Future Fund ‘shemozzle’
    By Chris Uhlmann


    ‘Proven track record’
    Finance Minister Penny Wong insists the Government made its decision to appoint Mr Gonski “on very sound reasoning”.

    We wanted someone who had a deep standing in the business community, had a proven track record as a leader, someone who had undertaken such important roles as chairing listed companies," she said.

    “Mr Gonski has those attributes.”

  88. TB @7.55pm..my theory precisely.

    I personally believe that the economy is down because Noni B’s and Katies sell only crap, therefore nobody wants to buy it.

  89. Adrian, productivity is a real issue across many industries … and has been since the Hawke/Keating Accords …

    .. there is a strange belief that industry won’t work with an ALP government … quite frankly I don’t believe that the ALP governments, since 2007, have really engaged the tripartite (business, unions, government) as they could/should have … training has not been shaken up and has been allowed to languish back to the days of chalk and talk … rather than doing and learning … productivity revolves around training …

    … businesses complain that the quality of tradespeople has dropped BUT rely on other businesses to accept responsibility for the training … busniesses don’t understand that people who do simple tasks require training …

    … and worst of all managers are still being promoted using Peter’s Principle …

  90. BIG CONGRATULATIONS..we’ve just hit our 400,000th mark. This is with due regard to the fact that none of the hits from any of the Authors are counted, and so it’s think of a number an quadruple it. 😀

  91. TB, you would know this one better than I, but when did it happen that taking on an apprentice meant that you could fire them on a whim. It used to be that you had to front up to the board and explain why you weren’t prepared to train that person until he/she completed his apprenticeship.

    These days there are so many adverts in the papers for 2nd or 3rd apprentices looking to complete their training, it’s not funny.

  92. Pip at 8.01
    Just saw Costello in S.A. Pompous creep. “I, I, I,” until there’s a problem mentioned, not him then. Not that C.U. mentioned many of them. Said he doesn’t miss Canberra, I don’t miss him.

  93. Waiting, waiting..waiting for Palmer to say where his High Court challenge is going to happen. This reminds me of Andrew Bolt and his lawyers saying that if Bolt lost then they would take it to the High Court. Of course it never happenened and neither will Clive Palmer’s challenge.

    Palmer was unable to state under which section of the Constitution he would mount a challenge..probably because he doesn’t know..however his you’beaut lawyers said that he could.

  94. TB, you would know this one better than I, but when did it happen that taking on an apprentice meant that you could fire them on a whim

    Ya can’t. Min, but they are “legally” employed by a group training organisation who manage the apprentice and their training and “hire” them out to employers … an awful program and one I argued at length with governments …

    … what you see is the group training organisation advertising for positions for their apprentices …

    No-one has responsibility in my view and its not very effective … employers can put on thier own apprentices .. and I have friends and acquaintances who do … much better …

  95. Bob, @ 8.18pm, no and I don’t miss his smug smirk either.

    His supporters are out in force:-

    Howard, Liberals join to back Costello for Future Fund job

    FORMER prime minister John Howard has joined senior Liberals in attacking the Federal Government’s rejection of his colleague Peter Costello for the job as chair of the nation’s sovereign wealth fund.
    Peter Costello shunned for Future Fund top job.

    ..Labor appointed David Gonski to the Future Fund position, despite his advice that the board of guardians preferred Mr Costello, the former treasurer who set up the $90 billion vehicle to manage public servant pension liabilities.

  96. Funny, none of the experts have identified a likely section.

    What he could do is get an injunction but that is unlikely at this level.

    Does one have seek permission to lodge a case at this level.

    Mr. Palmer needs to be careful. The government has the right to change the legalisation and as the Greens wants more, that could happen.

    Mr. Palmer could find himself worse off. I do not see the government waiting around twelve months or so, if Mr. Palmer was successful in launching a case.

    It should not be assumed that the PM cannot or would not do nothing. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.

    The same with Mr. Abbott and the company tax. It does not have to go the way, Mr. Abbott plans.

    No wonder Mr. Abbott’s body language was so unhappy and distressed. (the man is looking older).

    The Indonesians let him know what they thought of turning the boats back. They foot the other boot in when they said it had to be a regional solution.

  97. the former treasurer who set up the $90 billion vehicle to manage public servant pension liabilities

    … because they had sold off assets and lost the means to raise revenue … the same Tip Custard who “mislaid” $10 billion … the world’s greatest … soft serve …

  98. One might not believe it but there is much going on in the Senate at this time. The private Medicare subsidy. Something to do with uni students. The truck safety bill. The mining bills, among many others.

  99. If Clivey wants to change law (passed through both houses of Parliament!) then he needs to stand at the next election … OR move to the USA … he’d be popular there …

    What’s happened to Australia? We now listen to tall poppies? Especially wankers? We’ve become so Americanised and enamoured with the $$$$$ and our 15 minutes of fame … with no effort … our national culture has disappeared … sad day!

  100. “…the world’s greatest … soft serve”

    PK would have loved that one. You should send it to him.

    And the man who said he would talk on contemporary politics is again talking on contemporary politics, and as always is totally wrong and lying through his gnashed teeth.

  101. Miglo, a leaf blowing in the wind could be called a UFO by some. The key word for me – after all the investigation – is ‘unidentified’. That small percentage that defy explanation.

    1500 hundred is a fair figure.

    I wonder how many we don’t see?

  102. TB, being asleep in a hammock hardly rates as suitable experience. Maybe one of the criterian began with: “Demonstrated ability to . . . “

  103. Roswell, I musing over your plea that we have a UFO post. It’s an usual request, even for you. I’m not sure if anybody would be that much interested. Mind you, personally, I will be.

    You’ll need to twist my arm.

  104. Min, it’s just one more excuse to slag off at the government.

    Costello had access to all those billions to create the Future Fund because he short-changed departments such as Health, Hospitals, Schools, Roads, Ports, Pensioners etc.,

    He needs to realise it wasn’t his money or his private business stash, but most of all he should shut the hell up and graciously accept that Mr. Gonski is far better qualified to be the Chairman of the Future Fund.

    Finance Minister Penny Wong also pointed out that

    “We wanted someone who had a deep standing in the business community, had a proven track record as a leader, someone who had undertaken such important roles as chairing listed companies,” she said.

    “Mr Gonski has those attributes”.

    Mr. Costello cannot match those attributes.

  105. Migs and That seems low. Roswell sees that many alone. I’m sure that Roswell sees many things when alone… 😯

  106. Migs, we certainly have discussed the subject of UFOs over the course of one thread or another here on many occasions. I will add my vote to that of Roswell’s.

  107. Costello’s line to uhlmann

    I conceived the FF
    I put in every dollar
    I will not see it end

    But the biggest “I” was when he was asked if he would stand down from the board


    bloody costello wants gonski to quit. costello said the gonski should have disqualifed himself. What a goose costello made of himself, what an ego, what a dummy spit.

  108. This pretty much sums it up, and, after hearing about costellos dummy spit on the 730null, seems quite appropriate

    It’s probably not a good idea to appoint someone with a potential political bias to run a $73 billion Australian investment fund.


    I don’t think that there is anything ‘potential ‘ about it now 😯

  109. Min @9.40am, what’s the bet Palmer’s challenge never gets to court? If it does, I’d say a greedy magnate and his money are soon parted. 😀

    CU @12.31pm, Clive Palmer would be better off reducing the greenhouse gases emanating from his mouth!

    Pyne making a fool of himself.

    His default position, I believe, CU.

    …….Cruella likes her men much older

    And more dottery, Sue

    ME, nice to see your gravatar again.

    CU @6.42pm, I’m still trying to work out the link between refugees arriving by boat and guns for bikie gangs in SA. Interestingly, nobody in SA seems to all that perturbed by this alarming outbreak of bikie lawlessness, possibly because it hasn’t happened.

    Where is the media outcry.

    Maybe they’re still trying to work out the boat and bikie connection, CU.

    Min, as TB says. Dr Who of the long scarf, hat and jelly babies. The lovely Tom Baker. I must say I rather liked David Tennant and I’m quite keen on the current Dr Who.

    Who asked Howard in the first place?

    No one, Roswell, but that’s never stopped him.

    TB @9.16pm, ain’t that the truth? Methinks Tip, the Rodent and the Liars party should zip the lip before those inconvenient facts are aired.

    Do you think his resume would include the currency swaps and gold reserve fiascos? That’s if he could be bothered to put a resume together.

  110. The PM went out today without Mr. Garrett because Mr. Abbott would not grant pairs.

    Mr,.Abbott goes to that hospital accompanied by Mr. Dutton.

    Is this fair.

  111. CU

    Abbott probably had to show Dutton what a hospital was, as he does not ever ask any questions on health even though he has been the shadow for about 5 years.

  112. CU

    I have heard the PM at press conferences, where she states that minister …… can not attend today because the opposition would NOT grant a pair.

    Wouldn’t it be responsible or even astute of a reporter to ask Abbott at his press stunts, why is it he is accompanied by a shadow minister but the PM is not granted pairs . why the double stadard?

  113. Sue, have you completely lost your mind? Not even in your wildest dreams could you possibly expect a journalist to pose such a question to Abbott.

  114. I have refrained from gloating about the ‘Pies in previous years and will do so this year when Port..well, probably best not to predict this year for Port…

  115. Laura Tingle is similarly unimpressed with the reaction about the hammock king getting overlooked

    The government is being criticised for not appointing a former politician to a powerful and prestigious corporate job? Well, that is certainly a unique take on events.


    It truly is ridiculous the reaction amongst the media,

    And now, after having seen the video of ulman and costello, ….the abc should hang their heads in shame. What a pair of spoilt kiddies who have just had their icecreams taken away.

    Glad I don’t waste my time on that shit any-more (except when I have to see if it is as bad as described)

  116. From your link Sue

    MPs unanimously approved a resolution late Thursday decrying Downer’s “one-sided and detrimental statements and actions” that they say have eroded his credibility as an impartial facilitator in the talks.

    Probably the main reason costello wasn’t appointed either. I mean, going on last nights dummy spit, how does that hold with someone who is going to be in charge of something like the future fund (as terrible as it is as a return anyway)

    His comment about “I paid for it” really got up my goat. WE paid for it, and still are, cos Labor are still attempting to fix the telsra mess that enabled it.

  117. I’d rather have Tom R in charge of that sort of money than Costello. At least Tom would do something with it.

  118. Maybe the govt could apply the same criteria to recommendations to the UN as they did for the Future Fund and find the “Best” person for the job?

  119. And to think that Downer and Stott Despoja were snickering that Carr was a bit new to the job as FM and had really botched the diplomatic situation with PNG.

    What’s your excuse Downer?

  120. Yet the opposition is stating that Costello being overlooked is purely political – but who was it who appointed Costello in the first place, none other than Kevin Rudd.

    IF Howard had won and Costello had quit politics, I wonder which appointment Howard would have awarded Costello with..cleaning the dunnies in Upper Whoop Whoop North?

  121. What I fond interesting is, these doyens of the corporate world, complaining because the shareholders of a company have exercised their right and chosen their own CEO.

    More than that, he shareholders chose him over someone who has no experience in the proffered role. And now they and the media are crying foul

    Hilarious :sob:

  122. Mr. Abbott cannot see, mainly because he does not want to.

    He knows full well his policy is rubbish but simply does not matter. How does this man believe he can work with the Indonesians better than this government when he dismisses so easily what they say.

    OPPOSITION Leader Tony Abbott is sticking with his turn back the boats policy despite Indonesia warning it is the wrong tack to take.
    Indonesian foreign minister Marty Natalegawa said in Canberra yesterday his country was committed to the regional framework, known as the Bali process, and that such a policy would not fit with this process.
    Mr Natalegawa said a “comprehensive solution” was needed to tackle people smuggling, which was “increasingly becoming a big problem” in the region.
    But Mr Abbott today would not be moved from his policy.
    “We’ve turned around the boats before, we can turn them around again,” he told Channel 9.
    He said there was no reason why boats could not be sent back to Indonesia.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/abbott-wont-turn-around-boat-policy/story-e6frfku0-1226301116808#ixzz1pEJZyiaS

  123. Is Newspoll trying to influence the election in ashgrove, aided and abetted by the ABC

    “Newman tipped to win in latest poll”

    “Newspoll in The Australian newspaper shows Mr Newman remains in a tight contest for the crucial Brisbane seat of Ashgrove against Labor incumbent Kate Jones.
    Just eight days out from the election, the survey gives Mr Newman 49 per cent of the primary vote compared to Ms Jones on 44 per cent.
    It says Mr Newman has 52 per cent support on a two-party preferred basis when likely preferences are factored in, with Ms Jones on 48 per cent”

    the poll of 504 voters has a 4.5 per cent margin for error

    now read this

    “it shows most Ashgrove voters – 53 per cent – still want Ms Jones as preferred MP compared to 43 per cent for Mr Newman.”

    So if you take the 2 ppvote and factor the margin of error., it could read

    Jones 52.5
    Newman 47.5

  124. Interesting.

    SYDNEY is facing a new skills crisis, with NSW needing an extra 320,000 trade or diploma qualified workers by 2015 to avoid the economy grinding to a halt.
    Government modelling provided to The Daily Telegraph has revealed a critical shortage of qualified workers in Sydney and NSW regions.

    The stark modelling from Skills Australia warned NSW would need at least 180,000 workers with a trade qualification of certificate III or IV by 2015 to fill the jobs required by business and industry.

    It will also need an additional 144,000 people with diploma qualifications.

    The modelling also revealed about 1.3 million people in NSW are missing out on better paid jobs because of a lack of qualifications.


  125. Sue, I noticed that. I am sure I heard earlier today that the figures were going Labor’s way.

  126. Is Newspoll trying to influence the election in ashgrove

    Surely that’s a trick question isn’t it Sue?

    I mean, ltdnews have hitched themselves so tightly to the liberal wagon that any sudden jolt will surely result in some form of unholy union

  127. Why are we talking about Mr. Costello and his rubbish when there are real problems facing the community.

    This is what Mr, Abbott works so hard to prevent with his circuses. Mr. Abbott needs to focus on anything but reality.

    ‘But Australia’s fiscal position, enviable though it is, does limit our ability to buy ‘big bang’ tax reform.

    ‘Gone are the days when tax reform is accompanied by big bribes that get communities or industries on board.’ Mr Swan said Australia’s economy was sailing through uncharted waters, as it navigated ‘unprecedented changes and big transitional pressures’.

    ‘The key to our sound fiscal management has been a combination of prudent spending and sustainable tax policies,’ he said.

    ‘This is a lesson that many European economies are learning too late.’


  128. Migs, from your link:

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard is expected to announce a “sweeping overhaul” of the trade and training system in the coming weeks to try to fill the gaps being experienced by business and industry.

    At the forefront of the reforms will be putting vocational and trade students on an equal pegging with university students in receiving assistance and incentives to increase their skills.

    Let’s hope that the government receives some recognition for this, although I’m not very hopeful that it will. We currently have a situation where a school leaver who wants to do an apprenticeship for example, as a motor mechanic is confronted with the sitution that the only course available is Certificate III, and that Certificate I will not be available at any local TAFE until the year 2013. This is the situation in country NSW at any rate. Then if there is a suitable course available you have to be able to afford several thousand dollars, money up front.

  129. “I mean, ltdnews have hitched themselves so tightly to the liberal wagon that any sudden jolt will surely result in some form of unholy union”

    They know full well that the Coalition will not be as forgiving as Labor if they gain power. As they are so sure this is going to happen, they are protecting their future.

    They ignore the fact that Mr.Hawke, Keating and Howard came back from similar positions, this far out from an election.

    There is a old saying that still holds water. You can fool all the people some of the time. You can fool some of the people all the time. You cannot fool all the people all of the time.

    The Liberals do not make the mistake of appointing Labor to any position.

    Mr. Costello was not above undermining Mr. Howard during his twelve years as treasurer. Because of his lack of fortitude and guts, he only did this behind the scenes. never out in public, thus ensuring he never achieved his ambition to take over Mr. Howard’s job.

    Mr. Howard was well aware of Mr. Costello’s weakness and never seen him as competition. Nothing has changed.

    Not since he went to bed as a teenager at uni, when someone challenged him, punching him on the nose I believe. What man would be interviewed from a bed.

  130. Please remember, the MRRT is to spread the windfalls from the mining boom across the community.

    This needs to occur to deal with a multi-speed economy that is arising.

  131. talcum misses the point. Why do they all miss it when trying to negate Swans argument

    What exactly is Swan’s charge against the billionaires? Apparently they use their wealth to pursue their own economic interests.


    No talcum, the charge was that they were enacting undue influence over the political debate. Nothing wrong with using money to pursue your own financial interests (if kept within the law) a lot wrong when you use that money to try and control public perceptions of policy matters. Not really the same thing.

  132. Tom R Agree. It is interesting how many in the present debate are defending Palmer than talking about the issue at hand.

    Why do the Opposition members scream during a speech and expend so much energy waving their hands and arms about. The women are worse than the men in this regard.

    Why do coalition speakers keep saying they do not understand. Are they the font of all knowledge.
    not understand that many others just might disagree with them, not because the do not understand, but because they are right.

  133. Liberals new buzz word. Shemozzle. They are all using it, along with bumble and fumble.

    It is like they are all given the same lines to read.

  134. Abbott on Sky: Of course I can turn the boats back, they’re Indonesian ships with Indonesian crews.

    Interesting will be Australia’s future relationship with Indonesia..especially given that we’ll have one J. Bishop doing her diplomatic best..perhaps the death stare will be enough to frighten the Indonesians into behaving themselves.

  135. Min, of course he can. That is not the question.

    The question is can he so it without causing an international issue. I believe not.

    I suspect our relationship is too important to risk over a few boat people.

    Will the Indonesians not retaliate. I believe they will.

    Do we have anything to lose. I believe we do.

  136. The FWA report into the Health Services Union released today finds more than 30 breaches of the law or union rules and reveals details of the dysfunction in the organisation’s financial administration.

    3 officials Mr Jackson, Mr Hudson and Ms Fegan

    The three officials face substantial fines each of up to $2200 per breach.

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/fair-work-report–brings-jetaway-union-bosses-back-to-earth-20120316-1v9xg.html#ixzz1pFLuLs4g

  137. Cu, and can he do it without risking not only the lives of asylum seekers but the lives of enlisted personnel. The Navy believes that turning the boats around is foolish plus dangerous.

  138. Sue @2.52pm, that’s because they haven’t finished their investigation into Craig Thomson, yet. And it looks as though it’s going to be some time before that is finished.

    However, it doesn’t look that good for Kathy Jackson, the opposition’s favourite “whistleblower” as her now ex husband was found to have done a spot of rorting.

    Can you imagine the shrieking if Thomson comes up smelling of roses? I’d really love to see Liealot’s face if that eventuates. If I were Thomson, I’d want a lawyer to have a good hard look at the roles of Brandis and Liealot, once FWA finishes its report.

  139. This written by a Liberal. I say that it will definitely come adrift.

    Sir Robert Menzies reportedly didn’t vote Liberal in 1972 or ’74 and Malcolm Fraser has left the Liberal Party, and there may yet come a day when Howard and Abbott part ways with it too. Until then, all we have to go on in assessing a future Coalition government is the record of opposing whatever Gillard puts up: if there is no Gillard government to oppose, there is a very real danger that the Coalition might become lost. A lost and doldrum-bound Coalition can’t make a convincing case for government, and no ad campaign, no spinners can convince us otherwise.


    The Government is so unpopular that it’s only fair that we seek out and evaluate the alternative. Now that Rudd has been neutralised as a threat to his own party, people are demanding answers from beyond the Government and studying the Coalition. They’re getting those answers by studying what the Coalition do, not what they say.

    While it’s gratifying to see a downgrade in the political importance of spin, the alternative government is not offering a strong case why it should replace the incumbents.

    Andrew Elder was a member of the Liberal Party of Australia. He blogs at Politically Homeless. View his full profile here.


  140. Sue, I believe they were the people Mr. Thompson had problems with.

    Funny, Mr. Thompson made similar allegations as was aimed against him. I believe there was prostitutes involved in both.

    Was not Mr. Jackson involved before Mr. Thompson time.

    Maybe I am wrong. Will have to go back and review the time line and those involved.

    The point is that they have not uncovered any criminal activity.

    I expect a similar finding with Mr. Thompson, in spite of Mr. Abbott saying it is obvious criminal activity has taken place.

  141. Jane, I am sure there are many solicitors straining at the bit to take Brandis and co on. It needs doing.

    We have a unusual Opposition that says as much outside the coward’s castle, as inside it.

    They need reminding that it is not prudent to do this,

    I would hate to have to rely on Brandis if I was in legal trouble.

    They seem to see things, as they like them to be, not as they really are.

  142. By the way, Mr. Carr did as Ms. Bishop demanded Mr. Rudd do in relation to NG.

    I do not fully support Mr. Carr in this case, as I believe we should get involved if we can help it.

  143. Capitol Hill. Mr. Emerson said that Mr. Abbott would destroy the relationship with Indonesia, with his thumbing of his nose at them.

    He would be antagonising our nearest neighbour.

    hear hear.

  144. “I have no problem with Mr Gonski, but I ask you this question: if the Government wanted Mr Gonski, why didn’t they appoint him 12 months ago?” Mr Costello said.

    “And, secondly, why did they ask him to get the confidence of the board and then ignore his recommendation, and thirdly, having got the confidence of the board, don’t you think he should have ruled himself out as a candidate?”

    But Finance Minister Penny Wong does not agree.

    “Mr Gonski was not a candidate at the time he was asked to speak with board members to seek their views,” she said.

    “If there is any suggestion that there has been harm to the reputation of the fund, that has been as a result of people attempting to politicise this by asserting that Mr Costello should be chair.

    “We have made a point of not politicising the Future Fund, and we have chosen the best person for the job, which is what we should do.”

    Treasurer Wayne Swan has also hit out at criticism of Mr Gonski, saying Mr Costello’s savaging comes as no surprise.

    “I don’t think it’d come as a surprise to anyone that Peter Costello thought he was the best person to head the board,” he said.

  145. CU and Sue, the latest ploy is to have a go at Bernadette O’Neill…the writers here are giving a Great Big Hint, but too clever by half to or too gutless, to say exactly what’s on their minds.


    The complaints — and Ms O’Neill admitted there were a lot of them when she appeared before a Senate estimates hearing last month — have an irony for the FWA general manager, given her past. In Geneva in May 1998, the International Labour Organisation held the Tripartite Meeting on Technology and Employment in the Food and Drink Industries.

    In the list of “members representing the workers” at the conference was “Ms Bernadette O’Neill, the assistant general secretary, Australian Liquor Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union, Melbourne”.

    Strangely, or not so strangely, the HR Nicholls Society is suddenly very concerned about the welfare of MP Crag Thomson:-

    Inquiry into role of Fair Work Australia general manager Bernadette O’Neill

    THE Commonwealth Ombudsman has launched an investigation into the actions of Fair Work Australia general manager Bernadette O’Neill during the industrial watchdog’s corruption probe into Labor MP Craig Thomson.
    The action follows a complaint from the conservative think tank HR Nicholls Society, which claimed Health Services Union members and Mr Thomson had been “discriminated against” because of the three-year duration of the still unfinished investigation, and that FWA had improperly “discriminated in favour” of the federal government, which had relied on Mr Thomson’s political survival to stay in office

    The HR Nicholls Society wants the Ombudsman to recommend FWA come to a conclusion on the central allegations against Mr Thomson almost immediately, and determine whether the delay is improper.

    The Origins of the Society

    The H R Nicholls Society was established at a seminar which took place at the CWA Hostel in Toorak, Victoria, on the weekend of 19th February – 2nd March 1986. The Seminar was organised by four people, John Stone, then a financial and economic consultant, Peter Costello, Barrister at Law, Barrie Purvis, industrial advocate, and Ray Evans, an executive with WMC Ltd.

  146. From my link @ 6.08pm,


    The HR Nicholls Society wants the Ombudsman to recommend FWA come to a conclusion on the central allegations against Mr Thomson almost immediately, and determine whether the delay is improper.

    The Coalition, HR Nicholls Society and WorkChoices go together like eggs and bacon.

    Pardon me for being sceptical, but the fact is that the Coalition and the HR Nicholls Society couldn’t care less about discrimination against Craig Thomson.
    Their only interest is in finding a way, fair or foul, of having Craig Thomson
    removed from the Parliament with the specific intention of grabbing government for the Coalition as their complaint to the Ombudsman signifies.

    So much for “government interference”!

  147. Is it unfair to criticise Mr. Costello. It so, why is it fair game to criticise everyone on the government side.

    ‘Just because you’ve been a Liberal politician shouldn’t mean that you can jump over the top of someone such as David Gonski. So there isn’t a sour grape in sight here? Not at all.”
    Mr Costello said he viewed the government’s criticisms as a tactic to draw attention away from the government’s perceived economic management troubles.
    Labor senator Doug Cameron said Mr Costello appearance in last night’s interview was ”childish” and it was a ”political myth” that Mr Costello was a good treasurer.
    ”What a petulant, childish performance from Peter Costello,” he said.
    ”I just thought any chance this guy ever had of getting a leadership position in business has gone,” he said.
    ”I think when history’s written they’ll see that Peter Costello was a fraud.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/murray-wades-into-future-fund-fight-over-costello-20120316-1v93d.html#ixzz1pGQCi3U7

  148. I thought it was all Mr. Costello’s work????

    Obviously not.

    “Appointing a former politician – even one of the stature of Costello – as chairman, would therefore be most unwise, something Costello himself would understand better than anyone.”
    Mr Minchin helped set up the fund as finance minister under the Howard government.
    Greens’ spokesman for health, Richard Di Natale, added to the debate today, saying that ”fresh eyes will be a good thing for the ethical standards of the Future Fund.”
    He alleged that under Mr Costello, ”stewardship tobacco companies and nuclear weapons manufacturers were considered appropriate ways to invest Australia’s tax dollars [in the Future Fund.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/murray-wades-into-future-fund-fight-over-costello-20120316-1v93d.html#ixzz1pGShZAE6

  149. From behind the OO’s paywall, there is some excellent advice here for Labor and PM Gillard..

    Policies are vital but voters also have to like and respect you as a person. Gillard can do that.

    A final word to Julia: if you can be the person those close to you say you are, then be that person. Your government has done some wonderful things, and although it has made mistakes, it has a good story to tell. Forget the microphone and relax. Then get rid of those blood-sucking parasites that are making millions out of the Labor Party. There are hundreds of experienced veterans who have served in the frontlines for decades and know more about politicking than any of these Johnny-come-latelies. And they wouldn’t charge.

    Now, let’s turn to the policies. In all my years in politics I have never seen a political party with so many policies nobody understands.


  150. We keep hearing the Opposition saying that union members are angry about the delay.

    Except for one or two named today and those being used by the Opposition, I have not seen any outcry.

    I wonder is any other in this site can point me to sites where this anger is expressed.

    Am I the only one that has concerns about politicians bullying police, courts and other legal bodies.

    I was under the belief that there was separation between the political and legal arms of society,

    The failure of Ms O’Neill, and her predecessor and fellow former trade union leader Tim Lee, to conclude the investigation into the HSU national office has drawn outrage from the union’s members. The Coalition has said it may be due to government influence and an “institutional go slow”, claims the government and FWA deny.

    Ms O’Neill did not respond to questions from The Australian yesterday. The ombudsman’s investigation will place further pressure on Ms O’Neill, who is also under attack for refusing to co-operate with separate investigations by NSW and Victorian police into alleged criminal activity by Mr Thomson.

    In a statement last night, Acting Ombudsman Alison Larkins said her office would look at whether Ms O’Neill’s action in hiring management consultants KPMG to conduct an inquiry into the FWA investigation would be sufficient to determine why it took so long. “Given that FWA had already announced a review of its inquiry by KPMG, the Ombudsman’s Office will, in the first instance, investigate whether the steps taken by FWA will provide a reasonable investigation of the complainant’s concerns about the delay,” Ms Larkins said.


    “We seek to assure ourselves that the actions taken by

  151. From the Climate Commission report…

    ‘The wetter conditions experienced in southeastern Australia in the last two years are consistent with scientists’ knowledge and understanding of how the climate is changing in the long term.’

    Yes…of course.

  152. Boot been put into Smith Lateline.

    Greg Sheridan and Hugh White. Be interesting if there is another view.

    I imagine that Mr. Abbott will now begin to take a interest in Defence for the first time, in many years.

  153. The Opposition always surprises. Now it is a verbal recommendation they are talking about, Wonder what it will be tomorrow when that is denied.

    Opposition assistant treasury spokesman Mathias Cormann said it was never suggested that Mr Gonski had made a written recommendation on who should be appointed as the next chair.

    ‘What we have asked – and what (Finance Minister Penny) Wong has never ever denied – is whether Mr Gonski made a verbal recommendation to the minister, her office or the department that Peter Costello was the most qualified person on the Future Fund board to be appointed as its next chair,’ Senator Cormann said in a statement.


  154. el gordo, nothing new is being said. One would know that it they read whole articles, one gets the whole story.

  155. Failed scheme.

    it is a shame that something worthwhile was abandon because of unfair and untruthful MSM and Opposition assault.

    What remained was an industry for the first time in fifty years regulated and safety laws in place.

    It was greedy employers that should have known better who were to blame for the fires and deaths.

    The industry is now safer than ever, from the new regulations that Mr. Garrett introduced.

    We have in NSW, hundreds of small contractors going broke because of the greed of a company called Reed. A company that the NSW government gave the responsibility of over seeing the buildings under BER.

    No ifs or batts on the banned wagon
    March 17, 2012

    Beaconsfield is in the Roaring 40s. Chill wind and near frozen rain from the Southern Ocean regularly sweeps the Tamar. Taking coffee one teeth-chattering morning with Mr Smee, I could not help inquiring how a bloke in shorts could avoid feeling the cold.

    ”Well,” he grinned, jamming a well-worn bushman’s hat on his bald head. ”It’s a known principle that if you insulate the roof, you keep the heat in.” It was all down to the hat, his personal batts scheme.


    The federal Labor government’s home insulation scheme, born from stimulus money to help Australia weather the global financial crisis, seemed such a brilliant idea.

    It would help households across the nation reduce energy bills, remove large amounts of carbon emissions from the atmosphere, keep part of the building industry working instead of collapsing, and help Australians stay warm in the winter and cool in the summer.


    With several houses burnt down and a lot of others electrified, four installers killed and fingers of blame pointing in all directions – not least at Peter Garrett, the unfortunate minister who the then prime minister, Kevin Rudd, had nominated to carry the can – the Pink Batts triumph turned into the Pink Batts disaster.

    It was abandoned, at first temporarily, leading the insulation industry – sitting on a mountain of unused batts and another mountain of investment – to believe it might not be ruined forever.


    Kevin Rudd suddenly found himself with urgent business elsewhere and Greg Combet, having just been lumped with the title of Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, was sent out on April 23, 2010, to break the news about the future of the insulation scheme.


    The battered Insulation Council of Australia and New Zealand is trying to mount a rearguard action – military terminology being about the only thing left – to try to persuade governments that insulation is a word that needs a reprieve.

    The council commissioned a study by the consultancy firm Energy Efficient Strategies, which found recently that the dumped batts scheme had proved a raging success for the 1.2 million homes that had insulation installed (and that did not burn down).

    Each of these homes had saved an average of $299 on their energy bills in 2011. That figure would increase to an average $375 a household by 2020 because of projected rises in fuel prices.

    Furthermore, those more energy-efficient insulated homes would reduce peak electrical load by 400 megawatts by 2020, which would save around $1.7 billion in electricity infrastructure.


    Why, if the government were to revive its batts scheme for the million homes that remain without insulation, then national energy savings would be substantially higher, with consequent reductions in greenhouse emissions and, you would think, warmer and cuddlier voters.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/no-ifs-or-batts-on-the-banned-wagon-20120316-1vatf.html#ixzz1pJU8DEL2

  156. The recent drought breaking rains are probably unnatural, that’s if you take the three stooges seriously.

    ‘Climate change cannot be ruled out as a factor in recent heavy rainfall events. The Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) around northern Australia during the spring and early summer of 2010–2011 were the highest on record. This has very likely contributed to the exceptionally heavy rainfall over much of Australia in the last two years. La Niña events bring high SSTs to the seas around northern Australia, but warming over the past century has also contributed to the recent record high SSTs.

    The Climate Commission Report was written by Will Steffen, Matt England and David Karoly.

  157. Confused????

    Here’s how it works: The government wants to raise taxes on mining companies (the mining tax) so that it can lower taxes for other companies – many of which, unlike some mining companies, actually do currently pay tax.

    The Coalition doesn’t want to raise taxes on mining companies. By extension, the Coalition is thus also stoutly opposed to any of the nice things the Government plans to do with the money, like cutting company tax for other companies, even though cutting company tax for other companies is otherwise something the Coalition likes to think of as one of its “things”.

    The Coalition’s opposition to the mining tax is so absolute, in fact, that Wayne Swan could promise to blow the entire proceeds on VSU tattoos and busts of Bob Menzies and they still wouldn’t budge.

    Meanwhile, the Greens do want to raise taxes on mining companies, and their only major beef with the Government’s plan is that it doesn’t involve anywhere near enough tax being levied on anywhere near enough miners. But they’ll take what they can get. And they’re okay with lowering company tax for other companies, just so long as those companies have a turnover of less than $2 million,


    And the Coalition, being axiomatically opposed to not only the mining tax but any initiative springing from its loins, will line up with the Greens to vote down the company tax cut, even though this will feel exceedingly weird for everyone, and make for some truly awkward cross bench small talk while the voting’s actually happening.

    and now it is clear!!!!

    Company tax cuts thus become another of the Coalition’s imponderables. But in the past week, Mr Abbott has finally completed his collection of positions on the issue, having now variously been both for and against rising taxes on mining companies, for and against raising the company tax rate, and for and against cutting it. Apart from qualifying the Coalition for Company Tax Yahtzee, the benefits are unclear.


    Comment from same site.

    Abbott has been for and against an ETS too!!
    Come to think of it he’s been for and against just about any political issue you can think of

  158. Do they publish a list of “old boys”

    “University students speak about degrading rituals after 30 suspended for drinking initiation
    St John’s College, the prestigious Catholic boarding institution at the University of Sydney,
    This week, the Herald has heard from a string of students about a culture scarcely changed in decades – about degrading rituals and alcohol-fuelled initiations. ”The misogyny and homophobia would alarm anyone living in the 1950s,
    In one initiation ceremony, called ”Two Men”, first year students are stripped to their underwear and forced into the middle of a circle where they must wrestle another student with the aim of removing their underwear.
    Another involves a game of naked leap frog, played on the college’s lawns. Various degrading tasks are also set during a mock election where candidates have their penises measured.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/tertiary-education/university-students-speak-about-degrading-rituals-after-30-suspended-for-drinking-initiation-20120316-1vahx.html#ixzz1pJg7z0ih

  159. And from the above, about who are the daddies

    ‘One student suggested part of the struggle to achieve cultural change stemmed from the fact many of the students are the children of alumni who offer tacit approval of the behaviour.

    ”They went there themselves and are probably stuck in the past and want to live through their children,” he said.

    ”But what was acceptable in the 1970s isn’t now. It was all good fun but now it’s a co-ed college. We live in a different world. You can’t walk around calling people poofters and referring to women as sluts.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/tertiary-education/university-students-speak-about-degrading-rituals-after-30-suspended-for-drinking-initiation-20120316-1vahx.html#ixzz1pJgcTh9g

  160. Yes, today it is not fun to put people’s lives at risk.

    It that is political correctness, so be it.

  161. Hi whisperers

    the real reason why gina wanted to keep the documents out of the public eye, is not the public but the ato. The CFO of Hancock Prospecting mentioning tax avoidance, time for a new job me thinks.

    “Court documents released this week include an email from Hancock Prospecting chief financial officer, Jay Newby, to Ms Welker, in which he counsels her against asking the court to extend the vesting date by six to 12 months.

    “Any lawyer will take your money and lots of it – but what is he/she going to say to the court – his/her client wants the trust extended to avoid/evade CGT and/or to have more time to consider ways to do so (even though it can’t be avoided if/when the trust vests) and importantly to evade CGT for one year,” Mr Newby wrote”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/rinehart-saddened-by-family-feud-20120317-1vbkq.html#ixzz1pJjjgjRq

    This article connects with the smh read


  162. A must read,

    No muppets, but a piggy or two
    Attorneys for the Cookie Monster and Big Bird have reacted angrily to claims that clients of Goldman Sachs are muppets.

    ”Never at any time have my clients, or for that matter any anthropomorphic furry animals with long necks and googly eyes, been clients of Goldman Sachs’s structured products division,

    …..’To suggest that a muppet would acquire financial products from Goldman Sachs is a shameful and egregious slur upon the person of any children’s television icon, let alone one as knowledgeable as a muppet.”

    A spokesman for Fozzie Bear concurred. ”They might be able to dupe those really early childhood characters like IgglePiggle and Makka Pakka, but even Dorothy the Dinosaur is awake to the fact that a client of Goldman is just a target for the prop [proprietary trading] desk.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/no-muppets-but-a-piggy-or-two-20120316-1vaig.html#ixzz1pJm4ucIV

  163. Sue, it is all about Gina’s aversion to paying tax.

    Paying liveable wages comes a close second.

    Gina believes we ought to support migration and multi-multiculturalism by allowing people in to short term to work in her industry.

    To ensure she gets maximum returns, she needs lower taxation zones.

    In other words, she entitled to keep the lot.

    I believe that Gina could not care what her children thought about her, or if the public knows.

    News Ticker on Sunrise: “CMC clears Campbell Newman of misconduct.”

    Of course that makes him completely honest. How does one diverse themselves of all interest in business that is intertwined across two families.

    How does that clear at least three candidates that did not make in to the starting line because of misconduct.

    He might be cleared nut there is still a lingering smell.

  164. Labor had no other choice.

    high-profile Howard government minister and is still a regular commentator on the political process. That wasn’t enough to deter the Rudd government from giving him a board role. It is enough to make his ascent to the chair impossible when Labor is in charge, and when highly credentialled alternatives exist: Gonski is atop-drawer selection.
    It’s odd that Costello’s backers didn’t understand. Chairs are usually selected from the existing board. But the Future Fund’s board weakened that precedent by arriving at a politically loaded recommendation: one not much less likely to get up than Wayne Swan’s chairmanship of the fund under a future Coalition government.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/ato-keeps-discreetly-mum-till-family-tiff-ends-20120316-1vau9.html#ixzz1pJu5ZrEz

  165. Sue, I noticed there are more comments across the sites not complementary to Mr. Abbott.

    At the same time there are many admiring the PM’s guts. (My words)

    They are not saying they like her yet, but there appears to be respect growing.

    Respect is more important than being liked.

    Mr. Abbott knows that from July the first, it is downhill all the way. The desperation is showing. Think back to pictures from the last QT, with Abbott in huddles with his cohorts. A deputy kneeling on the bench talking to those behind, says it all.

    Mr. Abbott has lost his stagger and his body language tells it all,

    There is disunity growing in the party.

    It will be interesting to see the reaction to last night’s Lateline and the job they did on Mr. Smith.

    It is amazing that a PM who was in power for less than three years and his wife still are able to have so much respect.

    This PM changed this country more than any other, especially for women and families.

    Most of what he achieved, with the assistance of his wife has survived.

  166. Sue, I think the double standards are hitting home. I wonder if Mr. Abbott understands that no governmental or PM can attain the standards he and the media demand of this PM.

    He is setting himself up for failure if we have the misfortune for him to achieve his goal.

    His actions while being Opposition leader will come back to haunt him.

    Tony Abbott is breaking a promise for what he says is a good reason. He’s making a virtue of the about-turn on a tax break for companies but continues to pillory the Prime Minister for her broken promise on the carbon tax. Double standards are not new in the political arena but this one is certainly up there, in the top rank.

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/abbott-digs-himself-into-a-big-hole-20120316-1v9w1.html#ixzz1pJy8TYX8

  167. CU

    and here is Oakes take on the FF, basically a diversion by Abbott over his NO to business tax cuts

    “Costello has last laugh

    In the Future Fund debate, Abbott described Costello as “the greatest treasurer this country has ever had”. But he won’t listen to him either.

    Costello, it seems, should be put in charge of protecting an$73 billion sovereign wealth fund but doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to paid maternity leave.

    That just about says it all.”

  168. CU

    Desperation, that is the word, hence the DEMAND for the FWA report on Thompson NOW,
    After Thursday, no parliament until May for the budget. In May, the pensioners will start getting the upfront money for Carbon Tax effects, there will be the small business tax legislation etc. So for Abbott the now or never campaign is on, desperation indeed.

  169. That part was not known on Wednesday when Opposition Treasury spokesman Joe Hockey welcomed the appointment and referred to Gonski’s ”extensive and respected career”.
    The reports about Costello being passed over were leaked by someone, maybe someone with a grandiose sense of entitlement.
    Abbott should have let it lie, rather than prancing about in Parliament, suggesting Costello was entitled to the job.

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/abbott-digs-himself-into-a-big-hole-20120316-1v9w1.html#ixzz1pK0j5Z71

  170. I want to buy a cheap tablet but I am confused.

    I want something I can used when I travel to my kids place on the train.

    I want to be able to get onto the web while I am there. so my grand kids can have their computer back. I would like access to the radio.

    I have used a lap top with Optus wireless but not too sure what wifi means in this situation. At home, it means, I believe, I can hook into my home network

    I do not like to used my daughters computer, as she works from home on it.

    Do all tablets link to the Internet, everywhere.

    I am tossing up between a cheap and small note book or tablet. At least I know what a laptop does.

    New technology is leaving me behind. I am finding it hard to know where phones finish and computers begin. Ipads. Ipods etc.. mean little. Smart phones are not far behind.

    I have a smart phone but it is too small for me to see anything on it, and it is not a smart screen. I do not use it enough to warrant buying as new one.

  171. Now it appears, Mr. Costello did not do it all himself. Funny that.

    Minchin wrote yesterday in a letter to The Australian newspaper. Appointing a former politician—even one of the stature of Costello—as chairman would therefore be most unwise.”


    As Finance Minister for the last six years of the Howard Government, he was—with Costello—the co-creator of the fund set up to make provision for unfunded Commonwealth superannuation liabilities.


  172. CU

    I was just about to post that same observation. Not only does Minchin still not like Costello but Minchin is annoyed with Costello spruiking the “I” am the one.
    Yes Minchin is happy to boot Costello and set the record straight.
    I wonder if Tony got a call from Nick telling him he was foolish to back Costello, even only for a diversion on the NOT supporting Business for tax relief..

  173. Catching up, Personally, I’d go with the Galaxy over the ipad. It is far more configurable, and you are not locked into the apple world where you can only buy from their store.

    So many options on the Galaxy. I have a galaxy mini phone, which is pretty cool. But its browser sux. But I don’t use if for surfing.

    Mind you, laptops with touch screen were once the next big thing. I still hope they come about, as so much of my work involves a keyboard.


  174. Tom, it is the keyboard that beats me on my phone. My eyes are not that bad, but I still cannot see the letters clearly.

    Now, I will reveal my ignorance, Galaxy is Samsung I believe. I also believe it maybe too small, as I want to surf.

    My daughter has no problem on her phone, but screen size does count with me. I have a HP phone, never again. Still have not manage to send text message on it. querty keyboard which is impossible.

    I am not that rapped with Apple.

    I think the choice will be between what I believe the right name is a slate, and small laptop.

    I am not averse to Samsung brand.

    There are so many slates available. Do they all connect to the Internet and how do they do this.

  175. CU, I also have one of those small netbooks, which has a full(?) windows 7 operating system on it.

    Great for surfing, watching movies, anything you do on a normal computer.

    Mind you, not sure how it hold up to under visual studio or photoshop. Reckon that would be redunadant anyway (screen too small) But, great for what they are, mini-computers.

    To me, i-pads are redunadant already, and soon we will see them morph back into laptops lie the ones I put up earlier.

    From my understanding, all devices can connect to local wi-fi the same (my midi phone can connect through our home network), although phones have the option of using the 3G type connection (which can get expensive very quickly)

    Basically, the same as your home computer (except for the phones added (expensive) option)

    I have never connected to the internet with my phone through anything but the home connection, mainly because I am a cheap-skate (don’t like being ripped off)

    In fact, I use it most for reading e-books. It is small enough to carry in my pocket easily, and all it means is flicking pages more often (which actually makes it easier for me to recall where I was)

  176. The 3G option can be OK if you don’t use too much data Tom. Telstra & Vodaphone have a pre-paid mobile broadband sim you can recharge to $150 for 10GB or 12GB with a 365 day expiry. If you’re just surfing & emailing, 10GB will last a long time – start downloading anything or using Skype or YouTube, and you can eat it up very quickly.

    My Mum uses one of these as her home broadband – she’s just about due to recharge & she’d still got 6GB left…

  177. $150 for 10GB or 12GB with a 365 day expiry

    Wow, that isn’t bad at all. Maybe I should be looking into it a bit.

  178. Mum uses a Vodaphone USB modem and is very happy with it. (they also have other options for heavier users – up to $300 for 30GB 365 day expiry.)

    I have the BigPond Elite Wi-Fi modem – it allows up to 5 devices to connect via Wi-Fi. This one I use if my cable broadband is down (which doesn’t happen often) or if we’re away. I’m also very happy with this…

  179. Tom I already have a prepaid usb Optus which I use when I go to my grand daughters.

    I think I will go with a mini laptop.

    Graphics etc are not important. Just convenience.

    Thanks for the help.

    I have been going around in circles. You have helped.

    It will not be a phone. I hate then anyway.

    It is emails and blogging that I want if for.

  180. Sorry he said wordpress was easy to get behind and he was quite right.

    Yep, always assume, if it’s on the inner tubes, it’s there for all to see 😉

    There is no real anonymity out here

  181. and all those knitting patterns.

    Why would one want to get behind WordPress. Nothing much to see I would say.

  182. Cu, I firstly got a laptop and that’s good if you’re away and want to for example, write a topic or post music. Then “someone” convinced me that the iPad was good. I have never been a Mac user and so the format was different, but I love it. The touch screen can take some getting used to, but I like it a lot.

    Applications can cost money, but even the cream of the crop can be only $2.99 and certainly far superior than anything you can download on a desktop…and minus the hassles of applications trying to change your home screen..and my HATE ONE, trying to add another tool bar. If I had added all the tool bars suggested, there wouldn’t be room for much else!!!

  183. It’s hot & humid here el gordo. I don’t think I’ll mow today; Might pick some chillies for the Prawn fettucine tonight instead 😉

  184. I won’t add to Apple’s coffers though Min. While I don’t have a smart phone or tablet device, “kids” both have Android based systems – that’s the way I’ll go if I decide to get a tablet…

  185. El gordo, you are always welcome to talk about the weather. A little bit of rain down your way I believe..overcast here and very humid.

  186. Bacchus, I do love my iPad..in fact I take it to bed with me every night. 😉

    I have to admit that my herb garden is suffering from neglect, not much to boast about except the spring onion and some Tommy Toes tomatoes.

    Excellent choice Bacchus, with a bit of luck it will rain tomorrow and then you won’t have to worry about mowing at all.

  187. Cu, the answer is no. The 17yr old captain would have far too much world knowledge to be able to work alongside Costello.

  188. Min, is it an ipad, that is Apple or one other the other slates.

    How does it connect to the Internet away from home. It does not have usb I believe.

    See how green I am.

  189. We’re experiencing a scorcher here in Canberra at the moment. While Canberrans are sweltering in 22 degree heat you’ll have a hard time convincing them that climate change isn’t real.

    When it gets to temperatures like 22 I ask myself why I even bothered buying winter clothes last season.

  190. Migs, I ask the question as to why you bother wearing clothes at all given Canberra’s balmy climate.

    We’re still waiting for you to put on your trousers from last year…I mean the green jacket and the cute hat with the antenna are very up to the minute, but surely given Canberra’s weather you might need to wear something on your lower half.

  191. I think I meant tablet, not slate, though I believe they are the same.

    both have Android based systems – that’s the way I’ll go if I decide to get a tablet…

    What do they have and what can it do.

  192. Cu, I refer you to ——–>>>> Migs.

    Help!!! (come on fellas, don’t laugh!!) It’s to do with WIFI. Therefore you are getting the connection from a signal and not from a USB port. It works in the same way that a mobile phone works, that is via a signal.

    Yes, either from my iPad or iPhone I have internet connection everywhere. I can take my iPad to the beach or to the shopping center and I can immediately access the internet and emails.

  193. I do not want to talk about the weather because it is a little miserable here.

    Now climate change might be different. Even that is a waste of time, as most are one eyed when it comes to the topic. It just goes round, round and round in circles.

    I am happy to wait and see who is correct. For the sake of the planet, I hope el gordo is.

  194. Much amusement, nicely played out, the bears got caught in a storm and drowned.

    And before Tom comes in to abuse me, it was a weather story.

  195. Green CU? You’re one of the most tech-savvy septuagenarians I know…

    All of those tablet devices have a mobile connection CU – You can look at as if they’ve got the USB modem built-in if you like. My laptop does too, but most don’t. All it needs is a SIM card from one of the telcos and a browsin’ we will go…

    iPADs and tablets can communicate to the Internet via either a Wi-Fi connection or via the mobile networks (3G or 4G).

    At home, many people have a router attached to their modem (or built-in to the modem) that provides a Wi-Fi connection to the network. this means at home, you can use your ADSL or Cable Internet (cheaper) for your tablet device to access the Internet.

    You can also use free Wi-Fi hotspots (like at Maccas), although I wouldn’t recommend this for security reasons – people can very easily eavesdrop on public free Wi-Fi.

    When you’re out and about, you use the mobile network to access the Internet. Depending on your plan, this can get expensive…

    I hope I have explained that well enough – I’m not the best at putting things into words, unlike most here 😦 If not, ask away, I’ll see if I can answer, or Tom R might be able to say it more elegantly…

    My little Elite Mobile Wi-Fi thingy effectively provides a Wi-Fi hotspot from the Telstra 3G network for up to 5 devices…

  196. Vale Margaret Whitlam AO, 1919-2012
    Labor HQ

    posted Saturday, 17 March 2012


    The entire Australian Labor Party has been saddened by the death of Margaret Whitlam AO.

    Margaret was a national life member of the Australian Labor Party and a national treasure. Her passing is a sad day for all Australians who have appreciated her contribution to public life and politics for more than 70 years.

    Margaret worked tirelessly for Labor throughout her life. After their marriage, she and Gough worked to secure the victory of the Curtin government in 1943. With Gough’s election to parliament in 1952, Margaret joined him as a partner in representing the people of Werriwa. During the remarkable years of social change from 1972 to 1975, Margaret pursued Labor’s agenda independently and forthrightly, promoting policies on women’s equality and for protection of Australia’s unique environment.

    After the dismissal of the Whitlam Government in 1975, Margaret became a great Australian public intellectual, pursuing public speaking roles and her abiding interest in community service and the arts.

    Today, all our thoughts are with Gough and the Whitlam family as we join them in sorrow at the loss of a remarkable woman and a great Australian.

    Vale, Margaret Whitlam AO.

  197. ‘For the sake of the planet…’

    Indeed, the system appears to be operating normally.

    ‘Summer 2011/12 was generally wet over large parts of Australia, with the exception of parts of the tropical north and southeast of the country. Particularly heavy falls over northern NSW and southern Queensland resulted in moderate to major flooding over parts of those regions.

    ‘Maximum temperatures were generally close to normal over much of the country, with the WA interior and parts of eastern Australia experiencing a cool summer. Minima were generally above normal across much of southern Australia, and parts of the far tropical north, while central to northern regions were generally below normal.’

  198. And before Tom comes in to abuse me, it was a weather story.

    Then why did you put up a link that purported it to be a lie about climate change?

    I assumed it was bullshit for two reasons

    1) it had muntoon

    2) you put it up 😆

  199. CU,

    Android is just another Operating System (OS) for mobile devices. It’s “owned” by Google, but they release it as Open Source – that means developers can get at the underlying code used to build it.

    Apple has its own proprietry OS for its devices, and there are also Windows and Nokia OS’s for various devices. All do a similar job, although many would argue Apple do it best, mainly because they’ve been around longer…

  200. mainly because they’ve been around longer…

    mainly because they don’t let anyone do anything on it 😉

  201. El gordo and And before Tom comes in to abuse me, it was a weather story.

    Tom R has been a contributor on the blogs while you were still in nappies. Not once, not ever has he ever been abusive to anyone but always deals with all issues with his own calm demeanor, with a dose of quirky sense of humour thrown in for good measure.

    If you have a problem, then you are as always, are free to email me.

  202. Ahh…. like CU I’m waiting to see how it all pans out.

    The Climate Commission mentioned the unusual warming around Australia and here we see it.

  203. While holidaying in Tassie I watched a news item about this web site

    Divers send in pictures of fish in the oceans around tasmania, the scientists can then identify and track the change in species now in the waters.

    “Scientists have identified changes to the distribution of Australian marine species that suggest our marine ecosystems are changing. These include species expanding their ranges and/or increasing in abundance, localised populations expanding, and records of species occurring outside of their usual range. The Redmap website will record sightings of species which are extending their distributional range or changing their distribution, these are discussed in more detail below
    For some Tasmanian species, their usual environment is becoming unsuitable; it is too hot and in order to survive they have to move south to find cooler waters. Species that live in habitats on the continental shelf (and slope) or on inshore reefs will be unlikely to extend their distribution in response to warming waters as there is no shelf or inshore reef habitat between Tasmania and Antarctica. Southern rock lobsters for example, are a cool water species and cannot move further south in order to find preferred environmental conditions.”

    A very interesting program. Shame about the fish species.

  204. Next week we’ll be running a live blog on the Queensland State election in partnership with another blog site. More info to come.

  205. Miglo
    I see much comment on FYI now. Could I get aboard? Can’t figure the email address, sorry, your original post said it was OK to leave a message here.

  206. Miglo
    Email away!!!!
    While we’re talking, my lovely gravatar often doesn’t come up at the top as a recent comment. For myself I don’t much mind, but it might be a bigger problem?

  207. Bob, I’ll email straight away.

    I believe WordPress have been having some problems recently. As with the timing of the comments, TB had the same problem. Perhaps after you’ve posted a comment click refresh. That will fix it.

  208. Next week we’ll be running a live blog on the Queensland State election

    A reminder from the likes of wixxy as to what happened in other states after electing Coalition governments may be worth considering Migs…

  209. Does that make it easier for developers to write apps for Android than Apple Tom?

    I’m not sure about the coding side of things, but getting a licence to write code for apple is expensive and time consuming, and the app can then only be sold theough the apple store (if it gets past their moderation) whereas anyone can write anything for android

  210. Sounds like you’d get a lot of quantity for Android, but it may take a little more looking to find quality Tom…

    A beer for Tom too Migs?

  211. I don’t think he wants a drink, Roswell. By the sounds of it he’s just happy for you to have double.

    At least we’ll have a designated driver. :mrgreen:

  212. Bacchus. computers do not faze me. Those other things do.

    I think I now have it sorted out.

  213. I note on my return that the revolving banners now include anything that just may, at the hardest squint of an eye and interpreting a few pixels as outdoor umbrellas, chairs of tables, be a café.

    Some nice scenes and pleasant images though. Suits the place.

  214. but it may take a little more looking to find quality Tom

    That is also true. But, I love browsing 😉

    Mind you, all I have ever downloaded is the ebook reading

    HEY!. where’s me bloody drink


  215. Thanks Möbius. I’ve added a lot more photos I took myself. The rest were supplied by Min and some bloke called Adrian.

    Join us for a beer, will you?

    Tom’s not drinking so he’ll be able to drive you home.

  216. There is thing called a computer – there is a thing called an off button.

    Sometimes it’s best to press the off rather than the on.

  217. To be pedantic Min, strictly speaking there is an On/Off button on a computer but it should not be used to switch the computer Off unless something drastic has happened.

  218. Möbius, it bemuses me when our IT section ask me to reboot the computer. What they simply want me to do is turn it off and turn it on again.

    Oh, the penny just dropped. Rebooting means turning it off via the button when Windows crashes.

    Doh. Silly me.

  219. it should not be used to switch the computer Off unless something drastic has happened.

    Yes, weordly enuf, in the microsoft world, to End, you must go to Start

    Cheers Bacchus, a Sparkling will more than do 😉

    I needed a meal anyway

  220. This fucking shit just cannot help himself can he?

    In an obituary to Margaret Whitlam, he still cannot keep his pathetic politics out of it

    there was a lot wrong with the Whitlam Government


    I notice the comment is paraphrased in the text to remove the embarrassment for him.

    The only thing I ca see wrong with the Whitlam Governmnet is it enabled dipshits like this to go to uni for free. Some thanks he gave back.

    I’d apologoze for the language, but not this time. That is too low, even for him.

  221. Nah … I have two friends in the Masons (both Poohbahs) keep hinting I should join (can’t be asked apparently and you need to believe in a “higher being”) … and the Masons have woken up to the obvious problems of being secretive … and are now opening up their lodges and citadels …

    … plus I have a sister and a couple of friends in the Micks church … if you don’t know what they know … there’s no saving you …

    … secret societies do nothing for me … too one sided…

    … freedom of speech means … freedom for all – this is an adults blog, isn’t it? …

    … very medieval … a backward step IMO …

    I’ve never seen a “secret password” page on any blog before … innovative??? …

    I’ve seen “paywalls” … but that’s different …

    … if I “joined”, I become …. well what do I become … secretive … a member of the “club” … not my style …

    … and I’m used to being my own man anyway …

    … just sayin’

  222. TB Queensland

    Quite the, Secret Society, I see …

    TB, I double dare you..ask for the code. Or are you going to go elsewhere and join in with with rah rahs of those who do not have “the code”.

    I can see it all now…OMG CW have a secret code to a secret topic..eeek, shreeek, and it’s all secreet..and they’re all talkinn’ about USSSSS…

    TB, tell me honestly what is there at GT which is so terribly terribly exciting which we’ve all missed out on.

  223. The only thing I ca see wrong with the Whitlam Governmnet is it enabled dipshits like this to go to uni for free. Some thanks he gave back.

    TomR, just out of curiosity were you an adult when Gough came to power?

  224. Open abusive societies that shout any contrary to their very narrow povs down in a hail of multiple aweless posts and mostly devolve into a small handful of continuously repeated memes…absolutely medieval and backward in my opinion.

    Just saying.

    And you being your own man is what makes me respect you and admire your presence here so much. Never stop saying things like you did above.

  225. TB, tell me honestly what is there at GT which is so terribly terribly exciting which we’ve all missed out on.

    Bit shrill, Min,and nothing to do with my post … I know you and others here have problems with anyone that posts at GT … no not true, TomR seems to be OK …

    In a nutshell I don’t like secrets or secretiveness … from politicians, newspapers or blogmasters … OK?

  226. Hint … at how silly a FYI thread is …

    TB, I double dare you..ask for the code.

    Reminds me of a 1960’s used car advert … 🙄

  227. TB, what’s your problem?

    I said the thread might contain material that some people might find offensive so I put a password on it FFS.

    In 18 months we’ve posted over 620 threads at the Cafe and this is only the second one that has had a password applied. So much for this blog site engaging in secret squirrel business.

    Besides, if I choose to write a post that I think needs restricted access then I’ll friggin’ well do it. I believe under the circumstances it was the correct thing to do.

    What on earth do you think could be possibly in there that gets you this worked up about it?

  228. were you an adult when Gough came to power?

    I’m not claiming to be one now either TB 😉

    Regardless of his opinion of what it was like as a Government, now is definitely not the time to express it.

  229. TomR, just out of curiosity were you an adult when Gough came to power?

    Joined the Navy the year he became PM, and I voted Liberal that year in my first Federal vote.

    Guess that gives away my age and when I joined the Navy. I was the oldest in my recruit intake.

  230. “there was a lot wrong with the Whitlam Government”

    There was a much good about it.

    This really true if one is female.

    His government change Australian society more than any others.

    Most of what he introduced is still in play.

    This in spite of less than three years in government and two elections.

    He did empty the orphanages out, and the term bastard disappeared. That alone is a great thing.

    He made it possible for woman and children to move out of the violent marriages they were trapped in.

    He even made it possible for single woman to have access to the pill, as well as making it affordable.

    I can even admit myself to hospital now, without the signature of either my husband or father.

    He made it possible for me to take my four children to the doctors, and the budget not destroyed to buy the medication.

    The greatest thing that occurred during that time was the empowerment of woman.

    He also was unlucky in the economic times he came to power.

    Now what did Mr. Howard do in his twelve years, except turn us back to a whingeing, self-centred and greedy society.


  231. I was a young adult when Gough came to power. The election night was also my mate’s 21st birthday party. He’d recently drawn a prize in the national lottery that Menzies had instituted & he reckoned Gough’s election was a pretty good preso.

  232. I forgot, he also made it possible for me to to go to uni, long after I had given up hope as a mature aged student.

    This allowed me to earn a better income, which was great in rearing four children on one’s own.

  233. TB, I was an adult, struggling with a violent husband and four kids, the last born 1973.

    In 1979 I had an lump in the breast, was just separated and was told I needed my ex’s or father’s signature. At St Joey’s at Lidcombe.

    I stood my ground and was admitted. At 18, my father has to accompany me to Ryde Hospital for the same exercise.

    I was born 1941, which means I also remembered Mr. Menzies and all in between.

    Yes, we have come a long way, in a relatively short time. It began with Whitlam.

  234. It really is irrelevant what Whitlams Government was like. When you are offering up condolences, you don’t take a swipe at the guy. It’s just pathetic, it’s dis-respectful, and it really is quite cowardly. And it’s just what we have come to expect from this miserable wretch.

  235. Yes, but the same thing that happened to Whitlam, is happening again today.

    Of course the idiot cannot let Labor be seen decent, no matter the occasion.

    This man has no empathy, I believe with anyone.

    He is struck back in that era.

    Most have moved on.

  236. Yes, I had a young brother looking that lottery in the eye.

    Liberal PM have a habit throughout history of leaving wars in their wake.

    We were taken into that one, also on a lie.

    Nothing changes much when it comes to the Liberals.

  237. Tom R, my kinda music…..unlike/like us it never ages….. with recent comments on secrecy I offer another Sabbath song..

  238. TB and TB, tell me honestly what is there at GT which is so terribly terribly exciting which we’ve all missed out on.

    Bit shrill, Min,and nothing to do with my post … I know you and others here have problems with anyone that posts at GT … no not true, TomR seems to be OK …

    What precisely was I “shrill’ about..specifics please.

    Yet TB you have not problems what so ever about comments about Migs topping himself, even though you know that this was to do with our dear friend having come out of remission from Lupus. You TB have continued on, that this was just a joke.

    So front up, tell us please why this was such a chuckle.

  239. BSA Bob

    the lottery. who could forget that one. it was awful, i remember partying with friends who missed that one.


    The pill, i do remember celebrating that as well

  240. There’s a toughness about the Crows tonight Tom. That kid from Broken Hill is playing some good footy. But then again, he always does in the pre season.

  241. Any team with someone from ‘the hill’ on it are bound to have toughness imbued. ( I want to qualify that I am in no way praising the Cows, ‘nough said)

  242. LOVO, it seems that the paranoid ones are those that object to the secrecy.

    By the way, would you like the password?

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    (you did do that on purpose didn’t you? 😉 )

  243. we’re not in the habit of bestowing praise on the Crows around here might it be said

    It just might be the year that all changes Migs

    (I’m the eternal optomist)

    Although, they are looking OK so far. It is a shame their week has been overshadowed by so much crap though.

  244. Migs, dunno about joining, I would need to know if any goats, sayo’s or the like, would be involved….. but if theres a secret handshake count me in Arkayla…

  245. NICE is what everyone says about me, I have got that all my life, gives me the pips a bit… but hey if you got it then……….. oh, I get it your having a go at others… d’oh….. 🙂 Tom R, a local Broken Hill band for your degustation..

  246. Just been off getting tea. Has Nikki Savva criticised Gillard’s appearance during her eulogy for Margaret yet?

  247. Maybe this should have been on the media post. By the way, I agree with all that Mrs, Whitlam said.

    nd I’m not convinced that certain lines in her ABC obituary were particularly fair to publish at this time.

    These remarks about Malcolm Fraser:

    [In a 1993 interview] she also spoke of her anger at John Kerr and Malcolm Fraser’s role in the dismissal.

    “I’ve always regarded people like John Kerr and Malcolm Fraser with scorn – scorn for what they did, scorn for what they didn’t do,” she said. “In a way it wasn’t so much what they did, but the way that they did it that was so wrong. And I just couldn’t understand them, I couldn’t forgive them, I can’t forgive them.”

    And these remarks about Jeanette Howard:

    A biography of Mrs Whitlam quoted her as saying Mrs Howard failed to carry out the obligations of a prime minister’s wife.

    “She is useless in terms of how little she really gives the community,” she said in the book. “She doesn’t even go to the old people’s homes that Howard visits. The only thing she goes to is big, public things. I fear she’s a steely woman. Never contributing anything else but a smile. Nor a grin – a grin indicates some sense of humour.”

    Why include those sorts of quotes? Why today? Neither of these people can reasonably respond to what’s being said about them by the recently-deceased person. And it’s hardly a nice way to portray someone who’s just died – by highlighting times when they’d criticised someone else.

    It’s not really fair to anyone involved. There’s a reason those sorts of sledges are not usually included in obituaries. I’m surprised the ABC has forgotten it.


  248. Sue, do you remember one had to be married to get it.

    Not only married, CU but had to have your husband’s permission for it to be prescribed!

    I voted for Gough. I’ve never voted Liars. And never felt tempted to. I despised Menzies and I still haven’t come across a Liars politician worth spitting on.

    Some friends and I met Margaret Whitlam at a restaurant in Adelaide after Fraser rolled him. I, cheeky sod that I am, bailed her up and we all wished them well. She was very gracious, patient and gave every appearance of enjoying talking to us, however briefly.

    She was a very great woman indeed, a champion of women’s rights at a time when such recognition was in its infancy and a national treasure.

    A sad day indeed. Vale Margaret Whitlam and I send my condolences to the Whitlam family.

    LOVO, I can assure you that no Saos have been, or will be, harmed in the writing of this blog. However, I can’t guarantee the safety of any peri-peri chicken crackers caught loitering with intent.

  249. Jane, only trolls have been harmed by anything written on this blog. You would’ve thought they’d learnt to stay away. 🙄

  250. Jane, Gorton was not too bad. Believe he might have found his way to the wrong party. Mr. Fraser appeared to improve after he gave the job up.

    McMahon was a joke. He reminds me of the present one. Menzies wasted the post war boom. Cannot remember Holt doing much.

    I believe there was a lot of guilt on his part. He did make up with Gough I believe.

    The remarks they are attributing to Mr.s Whitlam where only made more than thirty years ago.

    I do not believe she would have changed her opinion of Mrs. Howard though.

    Howard looked a little stiff in Queensland. He does not look like he kept up the exercise.

    I lived at Granville and was in Labor but after they moved on.

    None of them match up to Hawke and Keating.

    I do not believe PMs staying in power for years is good for the Nation.

    Menzies and Howard proved this.

  251. Jane, Nothing worse than a soggy SAO ( spell it right Lovo), and I prefer promite on mine rather than that other stuff ……………………………………….
    ………………um,…. vegemite, 🙂
    Sue @ before this, so thats where the notion of the trickle down effect comes from…….e.g. of Cafe Whispers educating the masses (or just moi)….

  252. …..only trolls have been harmed by anything written on this blog. You would’ve thought they’d learnt to stay away.

    Not harmed enough, Migs. I suppose you can’t blame them. They’re desperate to know what a proper blog looks like. lol

    CU @11.23pm, I am of the same opinion. If a party stays in power for too long, they become stale and lacking in ideas. All they want to do then is hang on to power. I think we saw this in spades when Menzies and Howard were PM.

    A dose of opposition should focus their ideas and lead to development of good policies. However, the current opposition gives the lie to that idea, doesn’t it? I hope to God they’re an aberration.

    LOVO, a sharp rebuke must be your lot. PROMITE! 😯 I mean…..

    I’m afraid this un-Australian behaviour must be nipped in the bud and so for your own good, you will have to be re-educated. Pack a few things and wait for the persons in the white van. DO NOT TOUCH THE PROMITE JAR!

  253. Jane @ 1.25am, I must protest, though it is true that I indulge in Promite eating, I am also a Vegemite eaterer as well. I am that rare breed that has both….. I also have the occasional mug of Bonox, so whenever I am asked ” Coffee, Tea or Bonox… I say YES please “, …………… have I got myself in your good graces yet……… please turn the van around…… Im sorry………I genuflect in your general direction.

  254. Yet TB you have not problems what so ever about comments about Migs topping himself, even though you know that this was to do with our dear friend having come out of remission from Lupus. You TB have continued on, that this was just a joke. So front up, tell us please why this was such a chuckle.

    I have no idea what you are talking about, Min …

    You obviously have a bee in your bonnet … every time I post here, you fire up … if you, or, Migs, have a problem with that just say so … and I’ll move on permanently …

    My approach to blogs is to read comments, discuss and learn from those I find interesting … if I have an opinion to add, based upon my life experiences and or previous work/profession … then I will either agree, reinforce or attempt to provide an alternative perspective …

    If I discover I am wrong, I’ll apologise and move on … if someone offers a reasonable argument, I’ll concede … if people choose to argue a point I’ll press my argument (as many posters here know) …

    As for your statement above … I have no recollection … not the incident of course but my “chuckle” comment … that, if made, has, I suggest, been taken out of context …

    … if I offended, Migs, in any way … then sincerely I apologise

  255. Lets look at Petes “majority’

    starting with the information that 3 voted for themself, so from the 6 guardians these results are possible

    4 pete, 1 self, 1 self
    3 pete, 2 other, 1 self
    2 pete, 1 self, 1 self, 2 undecided

    Now the govt has appointed a new guardian, so in which camp did the retiring guardian lie? oh the possibilities

  256. If I discover I am wrong, I’ll apologise and move on … if someone offers a reasonable argument, I’ll concede … if people choose to argue a point I’ll press my argument (as many posters here know) …

    All true from what I’ve observed.

    Agreee or disagree, you always have been straight up about your positions TB. And I always look forward to your input. It is always considered in its approach.

    A rare thing these days in the blogosphere.

  257. TB, of course you are welcome here as far as I’m concerned. I enjoy your company, even if I may not always agree with what you say. That’s blogging though.

  258. But that’s where I draw the line.

    Personally, I’d draw the line a little tighter than that, but then, I’m not as accomodating as some 😉

  259. Thank you (all) … always nice to know where you stand … 🙂

    My anger management program is doing well too … 😀

  260. TB you are one of the posters who makes it worth while to participate in blogs and it was your lucid and honest forthright posting in GT that for a short time had me going back there to read and once or twice almost post.

    But then I saw that for each one of your pertinent and honest posts there would be dozens of raves and rages. Same ol’, same ol. With our usual suspect posting multiple posts in row, probably to get his count up or more likely he gets his rocks off seeing his moniker in blogs.

    I do not go there because of that and I will say I will miss you if you ever do stop posting around the traps.

  261. Thanks, Adrian,

    … but though I occasionally get a bit weary of it, I like to exchange POV on the two blogs in question and most of the folk who blog there … (both sides I might add) – I confess I don’t mind a bingle now and then … obviously trying to post on both sites creates a dilemma for a some people …

    … but I spent a career dealing with office politics and the occasional assassination attempts (and people trying to get me to lead a couple!) …

    … even as a business owner, one employee of an Industry Training Advisory Board (ITAB) threatened, The Minister, that he would close us down (personal not because of business) … a phone call from me told him never to talk to my wife in that way again …

    … he then stupidly defamed me in a meeting, that a lot of my clients were attending and got short shrift from them and a visit from his boss from me …

    … so, if I come across as aggressive from time to time there is often a background …

    … and as I’m sure you know by now, like you, I have a problem with deliberate BS … that’s why I enjoy sparring at GT …

  262. And in the same spirit ….

    A couple of weeks ago up the road I was having a quiet conversation with TomR about the weather and (correct me if I’m wrong) the discussion drifted towards climate and my favourite peer review at the moment.

    It was amiable, with me saying our star and moon have more influence on climate than industrial CO2.

    The irony stang…and then the master returned and saw what I put up on the board and was very cross.

    Intimidation was followed by a discussion on self banning, but being a bit dull on such things I stayed in my seat.

    So it came as a surprise when ToSY stood up and said he wasn’t self banning and then I joined him…it was quiet for a minute and he walked out.

    He missed the musical which followed.

    The point is…its rough out there, let’s not be too precious. TomR knew I was on a yellow card and tempted me into a position where I ended up scoring a ‘own goal’.

  263. Beyond that….ToSY hasn’t returned.

    He self banned and it should have been me, but my mission statement forbids self banning…. so I was in no position to follow him out the door.

  264. World’s collide…..

    I can’t account for the self bannings, there is a fine line on interpretation, some people may not find it amusing and move on.

    In my time there only one individual has been red carded, this is a credit to the blogmaster.

  265. Intimidation was followed by a discussion

    You haven’t cleared up much about that statement.

    Or, as usual, is it going to be a trolling statement and left to fester?

  266. Well…discussing CC at GT is a no no and the master’s anger was clearly noted by all.

    It was a reminder that I needed to adapt or suffer the ultimate indignity….to wit, my time spent in a Deltoid gaol..

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