Open Thread XIII

We’re breezing along. We’re up to our thirteenth page already.

Here’s the link to the previous page:

Open Thread XII

493 comments on “Open Thread XIII

  1. The unnamed source having the blue in coalition party room is russell broadbent.

    yesterday tony was on the tele saying the coalition would have a leader voted for by the public. has tony hired hawker?

  2. That’s interesting Sue. Russell Broadbent was one of the group who were exiled to the back bench for years for being too humane!

    Not a sily guess about Hawker…where’s Mark Textor these days?

  3. A PM leader elected by those outside caucus would be a dangerous move. Do we really want the USS system where money rules the roost.

    Neither party has sizable branch structure or numbers to ensure that manipulation did not take place.

    The present system, where the voter elects their local members, to elect the PM does make sense.

    I imagine there has to be a place found for Harry Jensen.

  4. I wouldn’t mind watching a biffo between Mirabella and Heffernan”

    “The NSW Liberal senator and farmer Bill Heffernan used the expletive to describe the Victorian Liberal senator Scott Ryan, who favours cheap milk.

    Sources said the Victorian Liberal MP Sophie Mirabella then leapt to Senator Ryan’s defence, telling Senator Heffernan: ”Why don’t you go and pop your Alzheimer’s pills”

    Read more:

    What about a cleansing leadership ballot?

  5. Can you believe it there is bias at the Tele. Bias? yes they did not mention the Mirabella/Heffernan biffo in their article on discontent in the coalition party room.

    “Angry MPs in Tony Abbott ambush as parental leave attacked”


  6. Sue, from your link..

    She (J. Bishop) echoed Mr Abbott saying the Coalition will only reveal its master plan of ideas when the election is called.

    Therefore until an election is called the Coalition will remain an ideas-free zone..sounds accurate to me.

  7. A warning to Bill Heffernan

    “”Why don’t you go and pop your Alzheimer’s pills” reportedly said MP Sophie Mirabella

  8. This may come a surprise, but in an interview with by Phillip Adams on Late Night Live Bill Heffernan said that “those people in my party who don’t believe in climate change are bloody idiots”.

    Heard it with my own ears.

  9. ‘The myth of the climate change denier exists in the heads of environmentalists, and seems to prevent them entering into conversation with anyone that dares to criticise environmentalism.

    ‘The crusade of ‘communicating’ climate change is not a project that involves an exchange of views. To criticise environmentalism is to ‘deny The Science’, no matter how incoherent the environmentalist’s grasp of science or how lacking his or her sense of proportion’, said Ben Pile.

  10. And for the good folk in Queensland..

    In the wake of the report, Ms Bligh said she would not be holding any other press conferences today as this was the issue of the day and she wanted “serious” questions answered by Mr Newman.

    “These revelations come on top of a litany of questionable financial dealings involving Mr Newman,” she said.

    “It comes on top of millions of dollars worth of hidden investments in properties and companies that went undeclared by Mr Newman.

    “It comes on top of a $30 million attempt by one of Mr Newman’s family’s companies to rip off Queensland’s flood recovery money.

    “It comes on top of a rezoning of land at Woolloongabba at a multi million dollar benefit to Mr Newman’s family’s companies.

    “It comes on top of continued unanswered questions about Mr Newman’s consulting company Ultrex in to which the Liberal National Party pay more than $100,000 for his wages.”

    Ms Bligh said the development was approved over “very important” heritage objections by the Russian Orthodox and Catholic churches in the area.

  11. This man has a way of saying it like it is

    The childishness of a system where a good idea is knocked on the head because the other side had it first.
    Even when either side of politics does come up with a good idea, you hear it numerous times over the past 20 years, people will say `shit, that’s not a bad idea.
    Then,”We can’t do it now of course because the other side came up with it first’.”
    One of the problems of this system is exemplified in the current scenario, where the Liberal opposition has so wedded itself to hating the Government’s major policies that they have stopped thinking about policy development.

  12. The MSSO today is a beauty.

    Mr. Abbott is correct, nothing has changed. He is as stupid as ever. Calling worthless motions.

    This is beyond belief. What if the PM did talk to Carr or not.

    Does Mr. Abbott have the PM chambers bugged.

    Is it important.

    Please explain were the problem is.

  13. Cu, it’s possible that the PMO is bugged, or it could be that staffer from Downer’s day is still there, or it could be mostly hot air.

    Now we know why the Coalition has no policies; they give us a daily replay in QT of their private conversations which leaves no time for creating policy

    Bob Carr is now bieng used by Abbott and POO Pane in his splendiferous speech about the ‘faceless mean” and “faceless men” and the faceless men”

    STFU Christopher. you’re looking very silly.

  14. Curtin and Co mentioned. I wonder if Menzies would have ever sunk as low as this mob.

    If he did, he would have done it with style, not one of abuse.

    The PM call of useless much have gone under Pyne’s skin. He has used the word three times in his attack

    So much ado about nothing.

    Mr. Pyne reminds me if my ex, who was very violent. He needs to be careful he does not bring on an heart attack. It was not the words that worried me that much, it was not the physical abuse. It was that look on the face. I still have nightmares about it, thirty years later.

  15. Reports of a brawl between Russell Broadbent and others, plus slagabella abusing Heffernan behind Coalition doors last night, have been greatly exaggerated; the solution to quell discussion about this embarrassing information is to waste half of QT on a matter that, for now, has nothing to do with the Opposition.

  16. Pip, I have been saying that for months. All that interest the Opposition leader is his daily MSSO. It is boring that they are all the same. Is it the 44 of them.

    What get me that the smirk is back on his face again. Must have been bought by the Australian again.

    I wonder if Mr. Albanese has fun writing a reply each day. Can imagined the fun they get out of it in the office. I would love to see the one they write but do not used.

  17. Cu, Mr. Pyne has become the Moderrn Major General from the Pirates of Penzance – not as likeable but equally ridiculous.

  18. Sin Binned Bronwyn Bishop attempted to enter the field via an advisors box, during the division count, but was pinged by the Speaker. Although not further penalised the Speaker said the member would be named in future..

    Was Bronny trying to rig the vote?
    Or was it just a seniors moment?

    I think Mirabella jumped to her rescue.

  19. Turnbull adds lazy billions to Abbott’s budget woes
    Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy,

    Senator Stephen Conroy, today called for Malcolm Turnbull to provide costing of his NBN plan and its impact on the budget.

    “Malcolm Turnbull has today revealed that he plans for NBN Co to buy Telstra’s copper loops from nodes to customer premises to deliver his broadband plan and structural separation,” Senator Conroy said.

  20. Watching Abbott doing his 3.00 pm sermon today, I thought the guy was losing it – It had the air of a desperate man pleading for some credibility.

    If he could have seen the looks on the faces of his colleagues behind him, he would be a worried man.

  21. Angry MPs in Tony Abbott ambush as leave attacked
    By Gemma Jones
    From: The Daily Telegraph
    February 29, 2012

    Mr Abbott faced dissent in the Coalition party room
    Fears he was offering scheme economy couldn’t afford
    Disabled would be made to wait if Budget not in surplus

    Mr Abbott last month said he supported disability insurance but would only commit to the more than $6 billion a year scheme if the Budget was showing a strong surplus.
    Victorian Liberal MP Russell Broadbent spoke out against the parental leave scheme, which would be funded by a levy on business.

    He was joined by Liberal Senator Sue Boyce, a past president of the Down Syndrome Association of Queensland, who also raised questions about the parental leave scheme, which will pay women up to $75,000 maternity leave.

  22. So under a Coalition government it’s going to be fine and dandy to vilify someone on the grounds of race. This will have to have a flow on effect to other areas of Anti-Discrimination legislation such as vilification on the grounds of homosexuality, HIV status.

    FREE speech restrictions in racial discrimination laws would be wound back under a federal Coalition government.

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has revealed the plan to change the laws if he was made prime minister.

  23. Lunalava, Abbott seems to have a screw loose when it comes to hearing what anyone else has to say!

    If he doesn’t like what is said, ie., he won his party leadership by one just one vote,….
    move on nothing to see here….

    At the NPC today, Rob Oakeshott made the point that 58% of the public did not vote for the conservatives yet Mr. Abbott is still seething, completely stuck,
    because the upstart atheist living-in-sin female was better at negotiating with the Independents, not to mention delivering, on legislation..

  24. Min, this little dog-whistle for the benefit of the Bolta and others reminds me of something that was said at the NPC today.

    Paraphrasing. shockjocks paid millions to tell the western suburbs how badly off they are… or words to that effect

  25. Mentioned earlier.

    3.19pm: Liberal Bronwyn Bishop was thrown out earlier.

    She has crept back into the chamber for the division.

    Ms Bishop is perched in the advisers box.

    Speaker Slipper is mighty miffed at this afront to his authority.

    He tells her she will be named if she tries this ploy again.

    (This means she’ll be out for 24 hours.)

    By the by, the chamber doesn’t back Mr Abbott’s call to suspend the standing orders.

    Ayes: 69

    No: 74

    The question is therefore negatived.

    Mirabella is now on. She is such a horrible woman. What would she know about looking after children. She has them and hands them over to hubby. (I believe is also a little older)

    Mirabella cannot afford to take six months off. Has she not just had three in a row,

  26. Pip I have recorded the NPC address, the independents were scathing in their comments on Abbott.
    His behaviour after the election was reprehensible and this has been covered up by the media.

  27. Hear hear, this government is being accused of not spending enough on a scheme.

    I wonder what cuts the Opposition would support.

    All I am hearing from them is that the government should spend more..

  28. luna, My impression of these two Independents is that they know Abbott is a loose cannon and for all the blah about “Rhodes scholar” etc., he is one dimensional.

    His behaviour after the election was reprehensible and this has been covered up by the media.

    There’s no doubt in my mind that they will continue to ignore and/or cover up
    for as long as possible.

    Another article today with a misleading headline was explained by Tony Windsor. I should have posted this in Media Watch but never mind.

    Breaking News
    Windsor backs PM, Abbott ‘a weakling’
    From: AAP February 28, 2012 10:42AM

    The fact that he was joking about the difference between his own physique and that of Tony Abbott doesn’t emerge until halway through the article.

  29. Creating a regional think tank
    By Kelly Fuller

    An independent think tank on rural and regional issues for Australia

    Today the Federal Government has launched the Regional Australia Institute. It was part of the deal the Independents including the member for New England Tony Windsor agreed to with the Labor party to help them form government.

    It’s designed to raise the profile of regional Australia.

    The Mayor of Inverell, Mal Peters has been appointed Chair of the independent think tank.

    Would this have happened under a Coalition government which takes it chances with the likes of the yappers at the Institute of Public Affairs, and Senator Bernardi’s favourite far-right think tank, the Heartland Institute?

  30. Pip

    what was even more stupid about the “weakling” story, was the dumb journo that questioned tony windsor about it during the npc address.

    here the npc had windsor and oakshott addressing them and the DUMB journos come up with questions on
    new election
    gillard power
    rudd return

    i don’t expect anything of any substance in the newspapers.

  31. It would be interesting to see a comparison of those 44 or more speeches used in MSSO.

    I feel we will see little difference in anything he had to say in any of them..

  32. ‘…hands them over to hubby…’

    Correction…’house husband’…invented by the Feminista in their struggle for equality.

    Remember ‘positive discrimination’ ….and why denigrate a man for being soft, he’s got a hard wife.

  33. “denigrate a man for being soft, he’s got a hard wife.”

    I am not denigrating anyone. I am just stating what I believe to be a fact. I am not questioning her motive for doing so. I have said before, that she has probably done what is best for the children.

    Not all women make good mothers. Not all men make good husbands.

    el gordo, I am surprised you have problems with the word hubby.

    I also question her claim that she could not afford to stay home for six months.

    Is she saying that she should be eligible for Labor’s so called welfare scheme.

  34. AFTER an extraordinary week of political brawling, Labor and Liberal MPs have agreed on one thing – they deserve a massive pay rise.

    The major party senators came together to push through changes that would deliver the average backbencher a $44,000 pay rise in exchange for slashing the Gold Pass and cutting back other perks.

    Labor was able to put aside its internal fighting, while the Coalition paused from its demand the Government call an election.

    Only the Greens, DLP senator John Madigan and independent senator Nick Xenophon fought the move.

    They are different from the Holden workers, they deserve this rise. They must, as they have nearly all supported the increase.

    Is this the wage breakout that the opposition has claimed to have occurred since the introduction of FWA

  35. Sad to say the Heart Foundation’s credibility has been on a downward slide for some time. One organisation I worked for could have qualified for The Tick for a product that was no healthier than any other equivalent just had to pay for it.

    ONE lump or two?
    Or how about three? As long as it’s a balanced part of the “total make-up” of whatever you’re eating or drinking, the Australian Heart Foundation seems to be OK with sugar.

    Supports it even, to the tune of awarding its Healthy Heart Tick in recent years across an increasingly wide range of sugar filled foods, including burgers, pizzas, fruit bars and cereals.

    That apparent laxness has the Heart Foundation facing an identity crisis, as it struggles to balance some $2.5 million in annual food industry sponsorship against its mission to make healthy recommendations.

    Critics accuse the organisation of selling its credibility, claiming its refusal to limit sugar in the Tick program has further eroded the public’s trust.

    A investigation has found extensive links between the Heart Foundation and the food industry; links that involve corporate sponsorship, high-level staff moving between the two and the increasing comercialisation of the influential Healthy Heart Tick certification program.

  36. Does anyone think it is beyond the pale to demand the PM tells the Opposition every phone call and conversation she has, while doing her job as PM. Surely the people concerned are entitled to privacy.

    What does it matter who she phones or talks to before she makes her decision.

    Carr was probably seen at the airport.

    Surely the PM needs to know who might be interested.

    What business man would put up with this situation.

    The Opposition seems to believe they are above normal standards of behaviour.

    By the way Carr has denied he was offered the job.

    Have a look at his age, does one want to wander around the world at his stage in life.

    I thought the PM might have seen Mr. Carr as having a role to play in reforming the party. This would be a strenuous role.

    The PM cannot carry out her duties in a fish bowl. No one can.

  37. Min, my big gripe is the low fat labels, that give the impression of being low calorie.

    The low fat is generally load with sugar to keep them tasty,

    They are misleading.

  38. Tony Abbott has used the Faceless Men jibe, over and over again, to attack Labor over the Bob Carr imbroglio.

    They’re under the carpet, swinging from the chandelier, hiding behind the potted plant. In Tony Abbott’s version of the Labor story, if you’re not a Faceless Man, you’re nothing.

    It took Abbott a little while to get to this theme in question time on Wednesday.


    As Abbott spoke, some ladies in the public gallery were much amused.

    It wasn’t clear whether they were laughing with, or at, him.

  39. Why do the news broad casters keep saying that the Government is under pressure from the Opposition. What pressure.

    Why not say, the Opposition is once again slagging the Government off. That is just as true.

    It is made to sound what the Opposition is saying is the truth, and the Government is in the wrong.

  40. “he word ‘hubby’ is so last century and in the 21st century it has derogatory overtone”

    That could be the point. One does not go out of their way for this woman.

    That is where most on that side of the table are struck.

    If I am wrong, why are so many words being wasted of faceless men that were dealt with by Mr. Whitlam.

    Next it will be reds under the bed.

  41. Well that door stop was one of the shortest on record.

    It must be a weight off the shoulders of the PM, not to have to keep her feelings in or be careful in what she says.

    Ms. Bishop is sure getting it. About time, she has been slgging off across that table since the PM took over. Much of it catty and nasty.

    I have taken Mr. Pyne’s word aboard. That is slag and slagging. Not a bad word.

    Did one notice that Mr Pyne’s used the word useless at least four or five times, after the PM said that Mr Abbott would put his time to better use, worrying about the useless faces on his side.

  42. It was simply speculation about Carr. Carr has always maintained that he didn’t want to move to Canberra, this certainly not being the first time that his name has been put forward for the Senate.

  43. Cu, spot on in my opinion about just slagging off. If the Opposition really wants to be effective aka put the government under pressure they could try coming up with a few policy ideas.

  44. Sue @ 4.43pm, the ‘weakling’ question was asked by Jacqueline Maley who wrote an equally silly piece a few days ago. She seems to be modelling her writing style on Annabel Crabb’s. Silly woman.

  45. Miglo, Port aren’t playing in Canberra. The AFL site said they are playing at MAN which is usually to code for Manuka. On this ocassion it stands for Manoora in WA. Do you feel stupid?

  46. It is all speculation and fishing expeditions, hoping they hit pay dirt.

    Most is senseless but twisted to make the PM to look bad.

    How can one answer what amounts to ridiculous questions.

  47. Watching the PC.. Mr. Oakeshott said the relationship between that states and the commonwealth in the next year is essential for the country.

    Can one imagine Mr. Rudd or Mr. Abbott negotiating through that mine field. I believe he is right.

  48. Is this not the way one would expect it to be. Mr. Carr would also be in the position to put names forwarded in NSW.

    5.25pm: The strange tale of Bob Carr for Canberra continues.

    Mr Carr has now issued a statement.

    He was sounded out about relocating to the Senate.

    Party officials had floated the option of Foreign Affairs.

    But the Prime Minister had not.

    Here’s the Carr statement:

    “Former New South Wales Premier Bob Carr said today that while party officers had talked to him about the possibility of him filling the NSW Senate vacancy and be able to be considered for the office of Foreign Minister, Prime Minister Gillard had definitely not made any offer about the Foreign Affairs Ministry nor had any one on her behalf.”

  49. .10pm: “I’ve got two words for you. Campbell. Newman,” Anthony Albanese roars.

    (He’s taking issue with the argument that Ms Gillard should not have sought an outside appointment for her ministry.)

    3.05pm: Ms Gillard has left the chamber while Mr Abbott and now, Liberal Christopher Pyne, debate the suspension.

    Mr Pyne says Mr Carr’s shift to Canberra has been “foiled by the faceless men.”

    “This Prime Minister asked for one thing. To choose her executive,” Mr Pyne says.

    But Mr Pyne says she was over-ruled.

    “Is she the Prime Minister, or is she Bernie Lomax?” Mr Pyne inquires – a reference to the film Weekend at Bernies.

    Naomi Woodley@naomiwoodley
    Pyne also said something about elves and sprites. #qt
    29 Feb 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite

    Here comes Anthony Albanese.

    “We should not indulge the Opposition,” he says. “Not when Question Time has been so rudely interupted.”

    2.55pm: The Prime Minister was very impressed with her “useless men” line.

    (What do they say about laughing at your own jokes?)

    Mr Abbott is not laughing.

    He’s thundering away about trust.

    He’s listing a host of inconsistencies in her statements over the past few days.

    “Does the Prime Minister think we have the memories of goldfish?” Mr Abbott inquires.

    2.51pm: Oh.

    Here comes Mr Abbott with the suspension of the standing orders.

    Bob Carr.

    Faceless men.

    Unanswered questions.

    Ms Gillard is looking like “a lawyer with a bad brief.”

    Could she be straight with the Parliament. Just for once, Mr Abbott asks.

    2.50pm: We interupt this Question Time broadcast to solve the mystery of Steve Bracks’ visit to the ministerial wing.

    Mr Bracks is not joining the ministry.

    He’s lobbying on behalf of the pay TV industry.

    2.40pm: The Prime Minister is in abrupt humour.

    She belts Liberal Deputy Julie Bishop when she persists on Bob Carr.

    Why would Mr Carr be better in Foreign Affairs than any of her colleagues, Ms Bishop asks?

    With pursed lips, the Prime Minister says this: “Whomever I select won’t break into a sweat wiping the floor with her.”

  50. Cu, Arthur Sinodinos was only drafted in to the Senate a short time ago!

    Maybe Abbott or Pane could explain the difference!

  51. Catching Up at 8.53
    This whole Carr thing is starting to look like a beatup based wholly on semantics. Do I detect another “test” implied in Grattan’s comment? It begins to resemble a set piece example of the way Gillard’s treated- whatever she does will be wrong because we’ll just keep going til we’ve made it so.

  52. This is a sad history that needs to be addressed, as was the Stolen generations and those poor kids from the UK.

    We were supposed to be civilised. I have doubts in that department.

    I was single when at 23 I had my first daughter in 1965. I had a wonderful doctor who said to me, go away for the week and decide what you want to do. If you want to adopt the baby, I will refer you to Crown Street. If not, put a ring on that finger and I will book into the nearest Community Hospital.

    I went back with a cheap ring on my finger.

    I only realised how lucky I was when I had my third daughter in Crown Street. I was there because of the lack of beds in the area I lived on. There was a shortage of bed leading to four of us after having ours babies, parked in a unused labour ward for a few hours.

    One was a young 15 year old, that in spite of telling the social worker and everyone else that was pressuring her, she was keeping the baby. She explained that her mother was supporting her and that she was marrying the father as soon as they could.

    This went on for hours, with the girl with the girl in tears, begging to see her mother. This was a terrible experience for us all. It made no difference that we interfered very strongly.

    The birth of that girls baby was ruined for her.

    A doctor in the same hospital by the way, asked me where the bruising come from. When I said my husband, his reply was, did I earn it. No matter that I was over eight months pregnant and had two toddler with me.

    I did ask what I would have to do, to earn the beating but he did not answer.

    A lot of young women today, see feminism today as silly, but thankfully they will never know how bad it was. I am not talking about that long ago.

    Mr. Abbott should be asked if he now regrets telling his girlfriend to adopt her baby out..

    It was a cruel time for many.

    At that time we had numerous homes full of these children, Not all were adopted our.

    Thanks to Mr. Whitlam and the single parent benefit, these days quickly come to an end.

    The alternative was to enter into marriage, where often the misery was worse.

    A Senate Committee has recommended the Federal Government formally apologise for past forced adoption practices described as barbaric and a “horror of our history”.

    After 18 months of taking evidence, with hundreds of submissions and speaking to dozens of witnesses, the Greens, Labor and Coalition senators have handed down a unanimous report, declaring it has been a heartbreaking inquiry.

    PS The doctor did four years of his training at the hospital.

  53. BSA Bob

    Grattan is probably still smarting from the short shift answer she copped from the PM at yesterdays press conference.

  54. Hi Everybody, Lyn over at TPS has just posted my news about polliepomes being selected for listing in the National Library PANDORA archive.

    When I first got the news I just had to thank Lyn and Miglo because those two more than anyone had helped me keep going and Miglo in particular had helped me with setting up my blog. As I said to TPS bloggers just now you can imagine how excited I was when Miglo wrote to me after I’d blogged with a few verses at Cafe Whispers to ask me to do more, even to contribute a full post! What a contrast with another site where the blogmaster asked me not interrupt serious threads with rhyming comment and confine myself to their Weekly Whimsy post.

    So Miglo and Min have been a big part of my writing career as have so many others of you with your lovely compliments. I’ve found the comments from Catching up, Sue and Pip and Jane, Kevin and Wixxy – well all of you really! – a great encouragement.

  55. Bob and Sue, so called journalists like Grattan give me the galloping $^&#.

    Grattan and Kelly first thing in the morning is too much for me!

  56. Congratulations patriciawa

    please a pome about useless men and women
    or the PM retort to bishop, julie
    or poor bronnie trying to sneak into QT


  57. Big congratulations patricia, well done. 🙂

    You are so right about the very generous encouragement from Miglo and Min.

  58. Catching up @ 9.48pm, thank you for sharing your story; it’s a relief even at this late stage to know there was one kindly person on your side.
    In your case it was your doctor and I’d like to think that at least some other young mothers were given the choice as you were by that man.

  59. Sue, C. Pyne used to do a radio stint in Adelaide, ‘the two Chris’s, with Chris Schacht, he hasn’t improved. at. all.

    patricia, might you be able to include something in Pyne’s ‘plidical’ lingo…
    that’s the nearest spelling I can match to his pronunciation.

    Because his words are heavily practised for effect, I don’t believe I’m picking on him unfairly!

  60. Patricia, as humbled as I am, you did it all yourself. I just provided the vehicle, but you did all the driving.

    We’re all proud of you.

  61. Sue, thinking of the hundreds of times that the Member for McKellar has risen in the House to remind the Speaker of the proper reading and interpretation of the rules, Speaker Slipper should have banished her.

    Did she think no-one would notice that she was back ?

  62. Pip, I did not write the story for me. I was lucky. I had a family, or should I say a father that stood by me. my mother had died a few years earlier.

    I am writing for those who did not. For those who families turned on them. For many of those who gad premature babies soon after marriage, The many girls in the bush who went on mysterious overseas holidays, to St Anthony’s and the Salvation homes.

    Not all these babies were adopted. That is the saddest myth.

    All because of conventions, family shame and the lack of ability to support ones self. If you manage to work, which by the way you where expected too, the wages at a proportion of males was just insufficient. Not all seen bar work or worse as an option.

    By the end of the 1970’s the institutions had emptied.

    In 1951, my mother adopted a baby boy from St Anthony’s. where were long wards full of cots down each side, As a ten year old, it seems like at least a hundred to me. Maybe I am wrong, but there were a lot. This was just one institution of many.

    The story had a sadder twist. I could never work out why my mother was desperate for a son. She had put her health at risk to have two girls.

    I found out the night before I have my daughter. My mother in her late 20’s had a baby boy, out of wedlock, in a private hospital at Stanmore. The doctor was a family friend, My grandmother and doctor conspired and managed to convince my mother that the baby was still born.

    It was about seven years later that my grandmother told my mother on her death bed. It also explain why my mother, a warm person, very close to her father, never said much about her mother. She never said anything bad, just nothing.

    It also explained another incident in my life. My mother had this soap container, wrapped in sticking plaster. I never seen her so angry, as when I opened it up.

    I wonder how many other women suffered a similar fate,

    As I said, I doubt sometimes that we are civilised.

    Keeping that baby was one of the best decisions I ever made.

    This is not about me, it is about those thousands of women, who are going to their graves, still full of shame and keeping secrets, even from their husbands an families.

    Sadly for my adopted brother, my mother died when he was seven.

    The adoption was not successful for him. Adopted children were often not accepted by the extended family or at the most, tolerated, and they knew it.

    I was very lucky. I had a beautiful daughter and the means to keep her. Not many did.

  63. Pip, he was a good doctor.

    Also useful when a young brother went off the rails. He also spent some of his training at Mittagong boys home.

    He was rare.

  64. PS There must be many women out there in their eighties or more, that have kept their experiences secret, With the publicity the matter is getting, I feel for them.

  65. There is no way that Mr. Carr would have been selected as Mr. Abbott alleges. It is a NSW vacancy and unless I am mistaken, it is up to them to fill it.

    Otherwise how was Mr. Petersen able to do the dirty on Whitlam, by filling the vacancy with a man who had no ties to Labor.

    I believe the rules was changed after that, but is would still be up to the state. Maybe there is an expert that is more up to date.

    The New South Wales Labor party is expected to have at least two candidates for the Senate vacancy created by Mark Arbib’s sudden resignation.

    Former Labor Party president Warren Mundine will nominate and if he is chosen he would be the first Indigenous person to represent the ALP in Federal Parliament.

    But Mr Mundine says he expects a number of candidates to run – describing it as a sign of the depth of talent in the party.

  66. Pot calling the kettle black. This man now wants the government to help. O wonder if he is going to say sorry, before he asks.

    Legal challenge

    In response, Palmer foreshadowed a legal challenge and has called on the federal government to investigate the administration of FFA comparing Lowy to a dictator.

    “Gold Coast United has been denied natural justice and we are prepared to go to the highest court in the country to challenge this ludicrous decision,” Palmer said in a statement.

    “We have no intention of deserting our players and supporters.”

    Palmer said despite Lowy’s service to the game in Australia, the 81-year-old has led an incompetent and overpaid FFA administration.

    “Frank Lowy is an institution in Australian sport but judging by this decision he might be visiting a different kind of institution,” he said.

    “He has brought the game into disrepute. The sport should not be run by dictators like him

  67. To Dear CU, I so want to give you a hug right now….. will a digital hug do…. on it’s way….. 0110001011001110….

  68. LOVO, I appreciate that but I am lucky and OK.

    There are many more that need that hug. The shame is, they will not get it, because of shame, because they have kept the secret too long, but I am sure not forgot,

  69. Channelling the Bolter…

    ‘CHIEF Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery in 2007 warned global warming was draining our dams.

    “Even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill our dams and river systems,” said the Australian who has most whipped up global warming alarmism.

    “In Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane, water supplies are so low they need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months.”

    Dismantle the Klimatariat!

  70. Because CO2 does not cause global warming, its the other way around.

    The irony may have escaped you.

  71. Because CO2 does not cause global warming, its the other way around.

    The irony that all of the worlds leading scientific institutions disagree with that statement appears to escape you. Consistently

  72. So what?

    Defence Minister Stephen Smith’s office has confirmed he fought a push to have former NSW premier Bob Carr drafted into the Senate so he could serve as foreign minister.

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s authority has been shaken as she seeks a replacement for Kevin Rudd.

    Mr Carr has stated that NSW Labor officials had originally raised the prospect of having him drafted into the Senate to become a cabinet minister.

    But he stressed that neither Ms Gillard nor an agent of the prime minister had made any offer to him about filling the foreign affairs vacancy.

    The Australian newspaper quoted senior government sources on Wednesday saying that Mr Smith was opposed to the idea of giving Mr Carr the foreign affairs job.

    A day later, Mr Smith’s office issued a statement to Fairfax Media where he did not deny the objection.

    Mr Smith held the foreign affairs post until September 2010, when he was asked to make way for Mr Rudd after the last election.

    A return to his old job would create another vacancy in defence, and leave Australia with its fourth minister in less than five years.

    Vetoed. when has that meant that someone disagreed. It would only be vetoed if the PM was not allowed to continue with her choice. It is not veto if the PM has not yet made a choice, as is the case. All options are being considered.

    Gillard, Australia’s first female prime minister, today denied a story in the Australian newspaper that her decision to approach former New South Wales Premier Bob Carr to take a vacant Senate position and become foreign minister had been vetoed by senior ministers.

    I am a little sick of hearing descriptions of how the government is travelling, given by the media, according to the Opposition leader.

    I am little sick of the supposition that the PM is a liar and as usual fails.

    The PM does not have to carry out her role to Mr. Abbott’s perceived rules.

  73. Cu, that’s interesting. Smith has been seen as the front runner for the job of Foreign Minister, but if Smith’s office was urging Bob Carr to take on the job then it would seem likely that Smith would prefer to stay in Defence.

  74. Miglo and Min, my story is what the thousands we are going to hear about this week should also been allowed to have.

    This is what they were cheated out of by bigotry, narrow mindness and society’s so called conventions.

    It was cruel, unnecessary and as time has proven, wrong.

  75. So El Gordo do you mean….Warming global cause not does Co2 because???
    Dosnt seem to make sense the other way round
    P.S. Everyone knows about the world wide conspiracy amoungst Scientist to fool the world. I for one think it’s part of their broader plan for world domination.
    Before long they be back to doing pure science for pure science sake. Tsk,tsk,tsk this will not do!!!!

  76. Min, once more the story is much about nothing.

    Mr. Abbott is still raving on about it.

    The PM only denied the story as printed,

    The time for the PM to speak, is when the decisions have been made and announced.

    The standards they demand of her, are ridiculous.

    No one gives a running description while they are investigating possible candidates and analysing their ability to do the job.

    That is just plain stupidity.

    What else does one expect from a stupid Opposition leader and inept media.

    No matter what decisions the PM makes over the next few days, some are going to be unhappy and feel badly done by.

    This is not the fault of the PM. It is just a simple fact. There has to be winners and losers.

    Mr. Abbott needs to remember, 58% did not vote for him in the last election.

    Also the 25% that voted for Mr. Rudd, did not necessary do so because they did not want the PM. Many voted because they felt the way Rudd was deposed was wrong. Not all of these felt that he should not have been deposed. I did not hear one say they did not want or like the PM. Most felt that she had done a good job.

    That 75% support is quite an achievement.

    Mr Abbott knows that he has to destroy that fact.

    I believe he will be unsuccessful.

    I doubt if Mr. Abbott called a spill, he would get numbers near as strong.

    It is time for those in the Labor government not only to be loyal, but to show and prove it.

    Brown’s interview on the PM and her ministers is a little worrying. I do not know if he is talking about now or the past. He said that there are some who are disloyal.

    I think he is sorry he answered some of the media’s questions, and is drawing back.

    Is this PM accident prone?

  77. Min, I think that Smith would like his job back and did not think it should be given to Carr. Nothing wrong with that.

    There is a very good case for leaving him where he is. The PM would have to consider that.

    Mr. Smith may miss out, because he has been too good at his present job. That is life.

    In life, it is not always the best that go up the tree,

    It is hard to move someone on, when they are doing so well in a difficult job. Defence is one of these posts.

  78. Maybe retailers should be addressing this problem than blaming the web and the government for their problems. They could ask the Opposition why they continue to talk the economy down.

    Aged 32 or under, these Australians have changed their spending habits more than any other generational group in recent years, a new survey has found.

    A fear of rising unemployment and general economic uncertainty has driven the swing towards conservative economic behaviour.

    More than half of Gen Ys surveyed for the 2012 Bankwest Financial Fitness Index said they had become more thrifty, with the number of respondents deemed ‘financially fit’ doubling in the past 12 months.

    ‘Generation Y is the least burdened with long-term debt, such as a mortgage, so they have the most leg room to change their immediate habits,’ said Bankwest Retail chief executive Vittoria Shortt.

    ‘Their fear of rising unemployment is driving their conservative spending behaviour, including reduced dependence on credit cards.’

    The nationwide survey of 1,000 people found that one in four Australians are financially ‘fit’, with regular savings, a range of insurance, little debt and low housing costs

  79. I must say it comes as a shock to me that members of the ALP caucus lobby, apply & sometimes campaign for positions. Nowhere else in the world does this reprehensible behaviour go on proving once again that Labor is not fit for…….

  80. Bob, it is amazing, they are the same as any other party, business or organisation.

    What is more amazing is that they do not do as their betters, media and Opposition demand they do.

    No wonder they are accident prone and in trouble.

    Just look at Monday, they did not put in place the leader the Liberal supporters want.

    How dare they be show so much disobedience.

    After all they are only Labor and as so, know or can do nothing.

  81. Mr Smith is considered one of the ministers most loyal to Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Labor sources today scoffed at reports he had demanded the plum Foreign Affairs post.

    He has publicly and privately said it is up to Ms Gillard. Prime Minister Gillard is expected on Friday to announce a substantial reshuffle of her ministry after Mr Rudd went to the backbench after Monday’s leadership ballot, and Assistant Treasurer Senator Mark Arbib announced his resignation from Parliament on Monday.

  82. Ms Gillard telephoned former NSW Premier Bob Carr on Monday night to discuss whether he would accept the Senate vacancy caused by Senator Arbib’s departure.

    She did not offer him the Foreign Affairs portfolio, sources have told

    The sources denied newspaper reports that Ms Gillard faces a “mutiny” over the approach to Mr Carr. By Tuesday morning it was clear he did not want the slot.

  83. Cu @11.39am..and we still hear the same line of reasoning used in the same sex marriage debate, that it requires 2 parents of the opposite gender to raise children adequately, that is, only the ‘standard family’ is good enough.

    In addition, we still have this attitude lurking in the background whenever the single mother issue is raised, the tut-tutting.

  84. Cu, plus they are also saying that if Smith left his current position it would mean 4 Ministers of Defence in as many years.

  85. Min, we no longer have numerous institutions full of these babies.

    All children need is a parent that loves and wants them, and the ability to support themselves.

    Those institutions closed down, literally over night after Mr. Whitlam bought in the single mother’s pension or whatever one wants to call it.

    The institutions were not only accommodating the children of unmarried mothers but the children of women who were deserted by their husbands.

    Husbands wielded great power in those days. that young women today would never understand.

    Yes, el gordo, I do believe in and thank what the feminist have achieved.

    By the way, the children were labelled bastards. No father’s name on the birth certificate. That was changed about the same time.

  86. Well at least people are once again taking an interest. Just hope they are listening.

    Today for the first time a worker challenged Mr. Abbott at one of his photo ops.

    Traffic to Fairfax Media’s websites has surged in recent days, evidence that when it comes to breaking news during office hours the internet has few rivals.
    Preliminary figures show that the live blog covering the contest between Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd on Monday was read 2.03 million times across its news sites,,, and Fairfax Media is publisher of this website.
    To date the highest ever readership for a single story across the Fairfax network is Qantas’s decision to ground its aircraft which was read 2.2 million times, a story that broke on a Saturday, a traditionally slow news day for the internet. The death of Apple founder Steve Jobs was another well-read story with 1.2 million views.
    Advertisement: Story continues below
    Traffic to Fairfax sites had been building steadily since Mr Rudd’s dramatic decision to resign as foreign minister and enter the leadership race broke at 5.20 pm last Thursday. That story was read 1.2 million times.
    The sites saw a surge in traffic on Monday at around midday in the immediate aftermath of the caucus ballot with more than 100,000 people simultaneously visiting alone via their desktop computers and mobile phones.
    Definitive figures will not be known for another week but Fairfax executives hope the Rudd v Gillard contest will cumulatively surpass previous records.
    Media buyers say the figures are better than the national figures of some TV broadcasters. James Ledger, chief client officer of Mediacom said the audience was larger than the 1.1 million people that the ABC reached on Monday. Mr Ledger said: ”When there’s a subject of particular interest people are diving into a medium that allows them to consume it on their own terms.”
    Getting news in 30-second bites on TV at times dictated by the networks did not feed the demand among readers to “dive into a story and get some depth”, he said.
    Darren Burden, the general manager of news in Fairfax’s Metro Media division, said the internet had become the destination for news for Australia’s office workers during business hours, especially as few are allowed TVs or radios.
    ”We experienced an extremely large surge in reader and viewership between 10am and midday across all our news sites. This was also maintained as we streamed the speeches of both Rudd and Gillard live across the sites. Australians are definitely interested in the machinations of their government when it matters,” he said.

    Read more:

  87. Yes we are back to the trivia, and should see it as such, and of no importance.

    No-one – least of all the media – would argue that they would not prefer frank and open answers from politicians.

    Yet as things stand today, the nature of political reporting is working actively against that openness.

    We existing in an environment where breaking a glass draws as much media attention as breaking a promise, and where the views of the individual who crosses the floor of Parliament are reported far more widely than the views of 72 colleagues who stand behind their leader.

    As long as the media maintains a focus on the trivial, and amplifies division at the expense of reporting substance, politicians will continue to stage manage their words and deeds to minimise any damage.

    And that is a shame for all of us.

  88. Cu, and the word “illegitimate” was also carried by the person when they went to marry and appeared on their passport.

    There was quite some objection to the removal of these, the reasoning at the time being that if bastards weren’t stigmatised then it would encourage ‘loose women’ to keep having babies.

  89. From that font of all knowledge Gerry Harvey.

    …just a thought, but perhaps if the shopping centres weren’t filled with so much JUNK, then people might be tempted to spend money purchasing things that were needed instead of adding to yet more junk.

    RETAIL veteran Gerry Harvey has warned of more failed businesses and job losses this year unless the Australian economy quickly returns to growth, and jittery consumers switch from paying down their credit cards to patronising shopping centres.

    Mr Harvey is chairman of the Harvey Norman furniture, bedding and electrical goods empire, which yesterday posted a small drop in half-year profit and a sales slump of more than 6 per cent.

    Retail sales figures for January, out yesterday, showed growth of only 0.3 per cent – and all of the increase was accounted for by a 4.3 per cent jump in spending at cafes and restaurants.

  90. I believe the rules was changed after that, but is would still be up to the state.

    Spot on CU – the 1977 referendum enshrined in the constitution the convention that a casual senate vacancy must be filled by a member of the same party as the member being replaced.

    As noted though, this still doesn’t stop a State government playing silly buggers with Senate numbers, as all they have to do is to refuse to accept the nominations put forward by the party. Where numbers are close, this may mean that one party could have fewer numbers in the Senate than what should be the case.

  91. Of course the PM is responsible for whatever the speculation decides to spread far and wide.

    THE exquisite political agony for Julia Gillard arising from the Bob Carr-for-Canberra caper does not rely on any of the purported facts actually being correct.

    It is the bad political space Gillard finds herself in where in the current excrement storm, she’s the one who ends up covered in it, almost no matter what happens.

  92. Tom, we have strong convictions on the veracity of CC science, but even with all those scientists are on your side, you will lose the debate.

    Flannery is in Germany on a junket, but a spokeswoman at the Klimatariat said this deluge will soon pass and we can expect continued aridification due to global warming.

    Dick Wittaker at the weather channel said Flannery should butt out of meterology and leave it to the experts.

    Sydneysiders are being forced to drink expensive sea water and the Daily Terror plans to bring Flummery down a peg or two.

  93. Catching Up at 2.06
    That’s a good quote. Bugger the facts, we’ll just write stories about what we want. I reckon there’s a good chance we’ll hear from the media that the Carr story “just won’t go away”. Why won’t it? Don’t bother with that.

    Actually it’s all just about “clean air” & the MSM’s conspiracy not to provide any.

  94. Has the whole ministry walked out with the PM.

    Me. Bishop having a minute of glory.

    The PM said the story was untrue. The untruth is what the story alleged that she was rolled. That is the untruth. The PM has said she spoke to Mr. Carr, among others.

    The speaker is once again being called into line.

  95. Anyone out there not stunned by the amazing perform

    Surely Pyne will be out done this time.

  96. Catching Up
    What a nice person you are, hoping Julie Bishop feels better. I usually agree with you, but on this occasion I don’t.

  97. What does it matter if the PM did botch the attempt to give Mr. Carr the FM job.

    It does not matter that Mr. Carr has denied this.

  98. Oh me, what a horrible life is. How dare she get away with it.

    None of the facts have been disputed. Yes, Mr. Pyne, they have also not been disputed by the PM.

    What has been disputed is that she was rolled.

    There were no faceless men involved. That was also disputed by the PM.

  99. Not one question about some of the important legalisation before the parliament, especially today when so much is being said and done about truck safety.

    MPI is about the price on carbon.

  100. What has led to the present political unrest, I would say polls.

    I for one would like them banned during election campaigns.

    Does anyone believe we are over polled. I have filled in two in the last two days. I do hope my opinions count. I suspect one is an in house Labor poll. Could be wrong, but I did like the questions asked.

    Imagine this – a world without opinion polls. Then ask yourself whether in such a world the leadership contest played out this week would have occurred at all. Consider on what it was based – a decline in the polls for the Government, in Julia Gillard’s popularity, and in her popularity compared with that of Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott. Over and again we were told how important the polls are in the fate of PM Gillard and her Government. If they slip any further, she approaches political death, or is irretrievably doomed; if they recover, resurrection might be possible, although in the view of many, that is out of the question.

  101. I love Jill Hall given the job today on ABC24 of defending the PM.

    She also asked a question in parliament.

    This lady supported Mr. Rudd.

    Does looking for the best, mean that one cannot find one in the team.

    I believe not.

    The PM was not rolled. How do I know this. Because no decision has been made.

    Robust too strong word. There was a discussion in the party room. Abbott’s parental scheme.

  102. Cu, Lib Rowan Ramsay is so rude; Labor MP JIll Hall told him that she didn’t interrupt him and expected the same courtesy and the young ABC host was amost as rude, saying to Jill Hall “and your point is?”

    My point to the ABC is “lift your game!”.

  103. This might help el grodo….

    Floods, Droughts, Climate Change, and how to read a Bell Curve.

    If you have not noticed, its raining a lot in Australia recently. For some, this means that climate change is crap and we will never have another drought. Tony Abbott is in that league. Tony Abbott said that CO2 is weightless. But I have tweeted @TonyAbbottMHR and asked him this question. What weighs more? A tonne of steel or a tonne of CO2? Abbott is still to get back to me.

    To some, the rain is proof that Tim Flannery is an idiot. Really? Oh yes they cry! Look at all the rain. Fair enough. But also look at a bell curve people!

  104. el gordo, it is not the peoples voice. That is the problem, they are seen as this.

    They are a small number of people expressing an opinion at a certain period in time. Nothing more, nothing less.

    They do not tell us what happened. They do not tell what will happen. They do not tell us why it happened. They do not even tell whether their beliefs are right or wrong. They are only opinions. That is why they are called opinion polls.

    They tell us only what they thought at that time.

    They are open to manipulation.

    Most experts agree that they mean little.

    To govern by polls, is to govern by a popularity. Being popular does not mean doing the right thing. The majority can and is often wrong.

    The GST was very unpopular. Who would say so today. The sky did not fall on.

    This is generally what happens with unpopular causes.

    One apart from that rule was WorkChoices. It was wrong and unfair.

    Governments are not there to be loved or popular. They are there to govern on behalf of all and the nation.

    Popularity can be manipulated by big money and the media.

    No polls are not the peoples voice. It is dangerous for people to believe so,

    el gordo, do you noticed the polls can go up and down at regular times. They can do this suddenly. Do we change governments every time it happens.

  105. Pip, Jill is not my favourite person at the moment but I admire her guts for her performance today. She just might get back in my good books.

    I noticed that she pulled him up every time he talked over her. I think she was successful, when he replied, I did. Made him look arrogant.

    That must be an order coming from the top. We do not stand for that behaviour any more. I do hope so.

    The Speaker also told the Opposition that the PM will be respected.

  106. “El gordo, that’s what elections are for.”

    Miglo, you are still right.

    Also there is good reason we do not have elections, every time governments because unpopular.

    I also believe that three years is too short. I do not believe we should be the same as the UK, but I believe four would be better.

    I notice when we read overseas reports on our government, especially in nearby Asia, they are describe as law makers. That is exactly what their role is.

    Therefore there needs to be time for laws to be put in place and tested.

    Elections held every time a government became unpopular would lead to continuous instability.

  107. Thanx for that Pip, but the author doesn’t understand natural science.

    Double dip La Ninas turn up on a semi-regular basis and always produce massive floods in Australia, long before humans walked here.

    It has nothing at all to do with AGW.

    How people survived on this continent during full glaciation, is a story yet to be told.

  108. El gordo, during the last glacial maximum the continent was much larger. We lost 17% of our land following the rise in ocean levels. The stress this caused on the Indigenous population would have been indescribable. Unlike us, they didn’t know about global warming.

    Thankfully, we do.

  109. On the question of polling, it is the new democracy and we better get used to it.

    The electronic media has made politicians transparent and polling offers them and the general public a chance to consider their future.

    Its an informed society, not just an opinionated one, which is the backbone of any good democracy.

  110. El gordo, do you really think we live in an informed society while the media decides what information needs to be released?

  111. Around 18,000 years ago Sydney Harbour was little more than a creek,

    I like this paleo stuff, splicing a couple of memes: social anthropolgy and CC.

  112. Democracy. el gordo, I asked before and I am asking again.

    Do we change governments every time the polls change?

    When are you going to push for polls to be recognised in the Constitution.

    What polls carry weight.

    I believe you are talking rubbish, and I believe you know so.

  113. el gordo polls might influence democracy, but that is a long way from a new democracy.

    It is undermining our democracy.

    It is just a lazy way of demonstrating.

    At least when one joins a demonstration, they do not hide themselves.

  114. El gordo, that would be true if the media provided us with factual information – then we would all be free to make an informed choice. The day that I see an interviewer conduct an interview minus the eye-rolling, plus ask even semi-intelligent questions then I’ll believe you about how society has become ‘wiser’ due to the media.

  115. ‘Do we change governments every time the polls change?’

    Good governments don’t need to change, bad ones should consider their future.

    ‘…that would be true if the media provided us with factual information – then we would all be free to make an informed choice.’

    News is sacrosanct, but opinion is just that. There is a habit here of only taking from the msm what is palatable, not believing anything else because its a hate media conspiracy.

    They have a bias, there is no denying it, but their news is straight and opinion pieces balanced.

    Its up to the reader what to make of it.

  116. El gordo, not at all. Today’s media dresses opinion up as factual information, thereby making it almost impossible for a sometimes naive public to be able to differentiate.

    As has been mentioned here on numerous occasions, the MSM’s current fixation on unnamed sources reduces their credibility considerably. There is also the use of rhetoric repeated over and over until the aforementioned naive public believe it to be fact.

    This can become an exercise in Clear Thinking. Take the rhetoric out of a newspaper article and find out what you’re left with, not too fckn much of anything with any substance.

  117. “Good governments don’t need to change, bad ones should consider their future.”

    Who decides what is good government. Surely you are not seriously saying if the polls say a government is popular, it is necessary good.

    “Its an informed society, not just an opinionated one, which is the backbone of any good democracy.”

    el gordo, the problem with polls, they only indicate opinions.

    I take it, an opinionated person, therefore opinion, is one that does not agree with you.

    According to the polls, the majority believe in climate change is caused by carbon emissions. That must mean, according to your reckoning, they are right. Climate change is caused by human activity.

  118. Senator Bob brown might also agree ..

    I posted this on Media Watch but it fits here too…

    @SenatorBobBrown is trending on Twitter in W.A.

    @SenatorBobBrown: If I’m “the most powerful politician in Australia” how come I can’t get my letters to the ed printed in The Aust?

  119. Pip,
    @SenatorBobBrown: If I’m “the most powerful politician in Australia” how come I can’t get my letters to the ed printed in The Aust?

    Well, letter to Ed. would take up ad space…..

  120. Hi LOVO, Sen., Brown might derail their thread …

    after all, they’re telling the story and they wouldn’t want to ruin it with a truthful comment or two.

  121. Faceless Arbib persona no resemblance
    March 1, 2012 – 8:19PM

    Opposition frontbencher George Brandis said he felt almost “cheated” to discover a person with a “ferocious, even a demonic” reputation turned out to be a “very nice” fellow.

    “My dealings with Mark Arbib I have always found him to be an extremely agreeable and pleasant person,” Senator Brandis said.

    Senator Brandis said he and Senator Arbib had both held the sports portfolio, the best job in Australia.

    “I could barely believe a minister for sport would choose to resign less than four months from the Olympic Games,” he said.

    “You have made a very great sacrifice indeed for your family, which we all respect.”

  122. The Daily Smellagraph is now getting it’s informayion from Twitter!

    Arbib denies soccer gig offer

    There is speculation on Twitter the senator could be in line for a job at the embattled football federation because it needs a “head kicker”.

    An A-League club spokesman told AAP soccer insiders believed Senator Arbib would soon join the federation’s ranks.

    “As soon as Mark Arbib resigned he was basically seen as an official in waiting for the federation,” he said.

    Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

    .End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
    But a spokesman for Senator Arbib denied suggestions the minister was heading FFA’s way.

    “There’s no truth to this rumour,” he said

  123. ‘…the MSM’s current fixation on unnamed sources reduces their credibility considerably.’

    I disagree.

    ‘…almost impossible for a sometimes naive public to be able to differentiate.’

    Hubris on your part, the public is not naive.

    ‘Surely you are not seriously saying if the polls say a government is popular, it is necessary good.’

    Polls are a guide for politicians to gauge their own effectiveness, for example, we the people think Kevin Rudd was a good foreign minister. Tony Abbott gets no traction in the polls, so he is in danger of being replaced if he falls behind Julia.

    ‘According to the polls, the majority believe in climate change is caused by carbon emissions. That must mean, according to your reckoning, they are right. Climate change is caused by human activity.’

    I haven’t seen that poll.

    More than half the population may think industrial CO2 causes global warming, while less than half believe it has something to do with that bright orb which rises in the east and sets in the west.

    The only poll that counts will settle the matter once and for all. With less than a year before the next election everyone knows the watermelon team will be out on their collective ears.

  124. I say the polls are about as much good for predicting the future as tarot cards.

    Most do not take tarot cards seriously.

    You put too much faith in polls.

    Most experts agree on one thing, polls do not predict the results of an election seventeen months down the track.

    It is not unusual, no I will word that different. It is usual for a government to have similar polls that Labor is experiencing at this stage in the government cycle.

    All polls tells one, is what the result is likely to be the day they are taken.

    It is unwise to read into them what they do not say or mean.

    One needs to be careful that polls are not being used to undermine the political process.

    I like water melons and I am impressed with what this minority government has achieved.

  125. Others may not have, but I missed this one during the week.

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard can’t play the same game. Her partner Tim Mathieson is regarded as a nice guy, but hardly an electoral asset.

    And there’s a dog – but no kids – to fill those glossy magazine spreads. Perhaps that’s why she’s always at the footy – it’s one of the few handy tools she has to show that she’s one of us.

    But in the end it’s all just window dressing. We should judge politicians by what they do, not who they go to bed with at night.

    Despite her status, Gillard has in fact been a champion of family rights. She is the one who has delivered paid maternity leave.

    She also presided over significant pay increases for low-paid workers, who are overwhelmingly female.

  126. Is this as Mr. Pyne says, class warfare?

    Is it as Mr. Pyne alleges that Labor is always envious of the wealthy and attack them?

    Could it be that Mr. Pyne and his people are always quick to rush to the defence of the rich and powerful at the expense of those less well off.

    Personally, I believe the attack to be justified. It has nothing to do with class warfare, but with people misusing their power on society.

    In an article in the latest Monthly magazine, Mr Swan took aim at Australian mining magnates Gina Rinehart, Clive Palmer and Andrew Forrest, radio shock-jocks and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.

    He says the presence of vested interests has been most obvious in what he calls ferocious and highly misleading campaigns waged against the federal Labor government’s mining tax and pricing carbon plans.

    The treasurer says in the last couple of years, Australia has seen the emergence of its own distributional coalitions, willing to use their considerable wealth to oppose good public policy and economic reforms designed to benefit the majority.

  127. I haven’t been watching politics too closely lately, it is making my stomach sick. Braved it this morning, and it now appears that Gillard is a LIAR because she said ‘completely untrue’ to a story that was only ‘largely’ untrue


    We have reached a point in our media landscape where a paper will attempt to paint the PM as a liar because their stories aren’t quite as untrue as it may be interpreted by the PM? Their defence is ‘she is a LIAR because not ALL is untrue, just most of it”

    What a fucking mess our media is in.

  128. Interesting reading, Lovo. Nobody denies CO2 is building up because of industrial processes, but the Denialti claim this is of no concern to humanity.

    Confronted by ratbags like me the UN came up with the ‘precautionary principle’ so that they could introduce restrictions and penalties in advance in case AGW is real.

    Let me assure you, the fearful future predicted by the warminista is pie in the sky.

    I’m studying Bond Events at the moment and the world is due for a real catastrophe, unfortunately everyone is looking the wrong way.

  129. “Despite her status, Gillard has in fact been a champion of family rights. She is the one who has delivered paid maternity leave.

    She also presided over significant pay increases for low-paid workers, who are overwhelmingly female.”

    Min, the PM is well aware of the difficulties that women with children have when pursuing a career with children.

    The PM is so aware that she made the choice early in life between children and her career.

    The PM is shown to admire her sister in taking the other pathway.

    The PM has done much as you say, to make it easier for women to have both.

    The PM has always been proud of her background and her working class parents.

    The PM has also been aware that it is education is the way to improve your life,

    The PM has thanked Mr. Whitlam for allowing her and others the access to an university education.

    The PM is proud of the local public school, in a lower economic area, that set her on her way.

    The PM, they say has no vision or narrative to tell.

    Yet at every opportunity, she says that the key to productivity and the future well-being of the country relies on education.

    Not only education for the rich, but for all. The PM says that all have to reach their full potential.

    Does not sound to me like a woman that does not know how the other half lives.

    The people in parliament that worry me more, that proudly claim they have no friends on the other side of politics. The woman on the conservative side, that scream across the chamber menopausal or worse.

    No, this PM is very aware of how the majority live. The PM has got to where she is, in spite of her background, not because of it.

  130. Tom is always up for a laugh, but won’t debate the science without peer reviewed support.

    Global warming is not to be feared, try and prove me wrong by using the technical information at hand.


    Miglo, the early Australians adapted to glacial conditions and survived. With a Bond Event due any tick of the clock we could look at the ramifications for modern society…mass migrations for example.

  131. but won’t debate the science without peer reviewed support.

    Silly me. I should just make shit up like the denialist’s do 😯

  132. This also occurred yesterday. Something one would think Mr. Abbott would be interested in, as he loves driving trucks.

    Workplace Minister Bill Shorten said more than 250 people were killed and over 1000 seriously injured every year in truck crashes, costing the economy $2.7 billion.

    The bill will introduce a remuneration tribunal for truck drivers that will be empowered to inquire into sectors, issues and safety practices within the road transport industry and determine mandatory minimum rates of pay and safe driving guidelines for employed and…. self-employed drivers(who are not unionists.)

    This should ensure that they can not be forced to take risks themselves, and do not pose a risk to the public.

    Mr Shorten (the minister), said too many truck drivers and other road users were being killed as a result of drivers meeting unreasonable deadlines, forcing many of them to take illegal drugs.

    This issue should be above politics. We don’t even begin to put a price on life.

    All Australians expect bipartisan support for these safety issues

    The opposition says NO and is against the plan with shadow transport minister Warren Truss saying the legislation was more about increasing union power than safer roads.

  133. El gordo and..

    Tom is always up for a laugh, but won’t debate the science without peer reviewed support.

    Maybe that’s because the peers have Masters degrees and PhDs and so know science a lot better than Tom, or me, or you.

  134. If the world was warming because of industrial CO2, this should not be happening. Natural variability rules!

    ‘The Northern Hemisphere was characterised by high regional variability. All Asia except northern Siberia had below average temperatures, as had most of western Russia and eastern Europe. This was caused by an extensive Siberian high pressure, especially in the latter half of January.

    ‘Western Canada and especially Alaska was very cold, while most of eastern Canada and USA was relatively warm. The North Atlantic was below or near average 1998-2006 conditions. In the Arctic Greenland was relatively warm, as was northern Siberia.’

  135. yea, grodo doesn’t want to discuss the ‘science’ of the global warming science 😯

    At the same time, she is also happy for people who are able to move out of harms way to do so, and, I guess, those who cannot ………?

  136. I’ll have another try at this. Here is an example, part of youngest’s job is reviewing the work of those who hope to graduate mid year with Masters degrees. She has almost completely her PhD. You cannot have anyone with less qualifications review the work, because basically they wouldn’t have the expertise to be able to perform this.

  137. Meanwhile, while the media lambaste the PM for calling their ‘largely’ untrue front page story ‘completely untrue’, I wonder if these bastions of right and wrong have bothered to chase up the stunt where yabot drove a b-double truck (or appeared to) when he did not have a license for that type of truck?

    Too busy trying to create impressions of the PM perhaps?

  138. And if anyone here knows someone working for an east coast council watching sea level rise, I strongly suggest they consider their future and move sideways while there is still time to do so.

  139. Today. 7 Mr. Abbott thinks that the PM did not maintain the standards one expects of a PM, when asked what was going on between the PM and bishop.

    The standard must be, according to Mr. Abbott, that the PM must take all the personal abuse with a smile and thank the attacker.

    I assume he also believes that PM has no right of reply.

    He was also asked, when he passionately defended his parental scheme, are those on $150,00 above those on disability pensions. According to Mr. Abbott, it is a different matter and it is the same as sick leave.

    I wonder would he be so passionate, if he did not have three modern Australian women himself.

  140. Cu, I believe that most people would agree that parental leave is for those who can’t afford the time away from work not as some sort of bonus prize for the already wealthy.

  141. Mr. Hockey told Mr. Burke on Ch 9, that he was wrong about what the PM said and did.

    You know why he was wrong. Mr. Hockey said it was reported as… I must admit, Mr, Hockey had trouble keeping the grin off his face.

  142. Cu, the feverish afforts to paint the PM as a liar have that old familiar ring to them.

    The gossiping gerties on RN this morning were full of it, but didn’t explain why the PM has to say anything prior to announcing the Ministry reshuffle.

  143. No Tom, sea level has been gradually rising over the past two centuries due to warmer conditions, but has now stalled.

    It does this periodically.

    As I mentioned previously, the warminsta argue that sea level has stalled because of excessive rainfall over the earth’s land mass at the moment.

    There maybe some merit in the argument, sea level might rise above its present plateau in a couple of decades when El Nino becomes more prominent.

    Australia is awash.

  144. Min, the gossips wuz wrong, …. first question about “the offer’ gossip.

    Coorey ” is it accurate blah blah” seeking confirmation of the MSM gossip…

    These buggers couldn’t care less about the other appointments to Cabinet, only the pointless inane gossip.

  145. Annabel Crabb tweets like a bird brain at times!

    Annabel Crabb ‏ @annabelcrabb

    Stephen Smith, it seems, has been rebuffed. #alsoheisarmed

  146. Victoria Collins tweet is a much more intelligent observation …

    Victoria Collins ‏ @HillbillySkill

    I think this can be classed as an ‘Up Yours!’ to the media from the PM!

    😆 😆

  147. That is such an asinine comment from Crabb.

    The MSM already had themselves psyched up to Smith being given Foreign Affair..and the whinge was already primed about there having been 4 Ministers of Defence in 4 years.

    TUFF MSM, now you’re going to have rewrite your stories.

  148. Another joker hit the spot…. sweet!

    Stephen Spencer ‏ @sspencer_63

    That shredding noise you can HEAR is every Saturday newspaper column being pulped. #reshuffle #craptyping

  149. Good one Bob Carr, the Prime Minister cut through all of the (media’s) speculation…because of course that’s all it was on their part.

  150. Twitter

    The Piping Shrike ‏ @Piping_Shrike

    Details Irony is that Carr is the NSW Right’s choice. Libs could have played the faceless men line up, if they hadn’t stuffed it up.

  151. Brilliant find, Eddie. Just brilliant. It needs some exposure, me thinks. I know a few Facebook pages that’d like to see that, but that’ll have to wait until the morning.

  152. The Coalition on Bob Carr as FAM and more importantly Kim Carr losing and Greg Combet taking over manufacturing.

    “The chopping and changing has infuriated the Coalition, who say the ministry will be buried because Mr Combet has so many other responsibilities.”

    In light of the Remuneration tribunal “once only ” deal Tony Abbott cannot make any changes to his front bench. If Tony wanted to marry up his front bench with the government he will have to drop 2 mps. Remember the coalition has 32 mps/senators getting a substantial pay rise., the government has only 30.

    “TAXPAYERS are set to give two Coalition frontbenchers an extra $45,000 a year pay which legislation says they’re not actually entitled to.
    It solves a sensitive problem for Opposition Leader Tony Abbott whose shadow ministry is too big”
    Read more:

    What a great line for the msm why does it take 32 coalition members what the government can do with 30? Add to that how many of the 32 have asked relevant portfolio questions of the 30? As the msm like lists how about a list of shadows with further list of number of questions to ministers.

  153. I think that the interesting one is that “Tony Abbott cannot make any changes to his front bench”. I don’t think that will fuss Tony much as he did say at the last election that his current team is the same team that he would be taking to the next election…how dreary and boring is changes, everything always stays the same. YAWN…

  154. Watch your back Tony the press needs a new target. an easy one at that, and the PM is through with playing games.

    Labor not without hope of turnaround in poor polling
    A YEAR out from the 1993 federal election, the Labor government was despondent, trailing by as much as 16 points in opinion polls after preferences. Prime minister Paul Keating was the politician you couldn’t give away in a raffle.

    Read more:

    Another BS polling story, but that is all the msm knows to write about.

  155. El gordo, very interesting. I know that realists among us woud say that it’s all illusion, and I should imagine that a good portion of it is, however there are things to my mind which have no other explanation.

    To have a Universe with only one planet inhabited by (mostly) intelligent life forms seems to me to be one heck of a lot of wasted space.

  156. Agree with you on that Min and mathematically its a certainty we are not alone.

    This is a touchy subject, so I’ll say no more…unless….

  157. I wonder if the space men are missionaries on a pilgrimage to bring their one true religion to an outer spiral of the milkyway……Nanu nanu….

  158. It seems that extraterrestrials have avoided religion..mind you they probably have become a religion themselves on a number of occasions.

  159. Luckily the universe is abundant in natural resources, so they are not here to rape and pillage the planet. Unlike the locals who make a habit of it.

  160. is already here… :mrgreen:
    and still lying about the carbon “tax”, aided every step of the way by the dishonourable media fixers.

    ‘I will be PM’: Tony Abbott
    March 4, 2012 – 12:23PM.

    People could stop the tax by voting for Queensland Liberal leader Campbell Newman, rather than Labor premier Anna Bligh, Mr Abbott said.

    In reference to former NSW Premier Bob Carr being offered the foreign affairs portfolio by Prime Minister Julia Gillard on Friday, Mr Abbott said he couldn’t stop Ms Gillard from also offering Anna Bligh a job in Canberra.

    Say what??

  161. Pip, I just the “pleasure” of reading that article in The wonderful to be able to have whatever waffle one might come up with printed in every newspaper across the nation.

    While I was reading it, it came to mind, Can Tony Abbott put a sentence together using words consisting of more than one syllable?

  162. We are a godless lot, more of us are having trouble with the Judeo/Christian/Muslim mantra

    Its a known fact that 80% of Australians believe in the existence of aliens somewhere in space and 74% believe in god.

  163. Its a known fact that 80% of Australians believe in the existence of aliens somewhere in space

    Yea, but of that 80%, how many believe that they are sojourning here on their weekends?

  164. Speaking of faceless men, lyn at TPS has uncovered the news that Patrick Secker, Liars MP for Barker and professional Liealot @rse licker and waste of space, has been disendorsed from pre-selection for the next election, by-wait for it-drum roll-284 Liars Party faceless persons!!!!

    All done despite Liealot’s veto of such a motion and Prissy’s vigorous advocacy for Secker.

    Gee, Liealot doesn’t seem to have much authority in the party, does he? Bwwaahahahaha!!!!

  165. Tom, that reminds me of a group from around the Byron Bay area who used to line up regularly at South Golden Beach waiting for the spaceships to land.

  166. a group from around the Byron Bay

    TB is from Byron Bay? 😯

    (just messin’ with ya TB. You know us humanz (or wannabees anyway)) 😉

  167. Tom R, exactly. To accuse the Parliamentary Labor party of being composed of faceless men is patently ridiculous, but has been effective as a scare tactic by the Liars Party.

    However, they are now hoist on their own petard and I’m sure the government can’t wait to turn the tables with a hefty dose of ridicule and invective. Albo will be sharpening his fangs as I write.

    The best thing to come out of it of course, will be to stop this nonsense in its tracks.

    Min, I thought TB looked more like this:

  168. The best thing to come out of it of course, will be to stop this nonsense in its tracks.

    You’re quite optimistic tonight jane.

    The recent behaviour of both the opposition and the media lend me to believe otherwise 😉

    Time will tell I suppose.

  169. From 1000 AD to 1400 AD the Australian aborigines endured a world with mostly La Nina conditions, so Australia was awash just like now for hundreds of years.

    A dominance of cool Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) illustrates this period perfectly, food would have been abundant.

    Closer to our own time its a mixed bag.

  170. Far too sartorially elegant, Pip. 😉

    Only in respect of faceless men, Tom. Every time Liealot, or one of his attack dogs tries to have a crack, they know Albo or the PM will be waiting to rub their noses in Patrick Secker.

    But in truth, I think the msm might be a little slow out of the blocks for a while.

    They will be smarting from the killer Carr blow engineered by the PM and they’ll also be on the back foot wrt leakers, senior sauces and anonymous sauces in the government.

    They’ll never be quite sure if they can trust the information they get. How tragic. 😆

  171. Jane, a thought too is that the PM now knows who is the source of the leaks. Leading up to the Carr appointment there was a story about 2 phone calls that the PM made, clearly this could only be someone in close proximity.

  172. Bless you, bless you Tanya…

    HEALTH Minister Tanya Plibersek says Australia’s dental system which allows access to cosmetic work ahead of the needs of children in remote areas needs to be overhauled.
    Speaking on Sky News’ Australian Agenda this morning, Ms Plibersek indicated that revamping the current dental system would be one of her priorities in the health portfolio.

  173. I have always wondered why TEETH have never been part of the human body; at least medically speak’n……or medicare speak’n, could it be that old age war between “real” doctors ( whom, just lately, I’v been calling accountants or pharma-dollar company hoe’s) and their inferior ‘the Dentist’……can you imagine what it’s like in a regional area to try and get an appointment at a dentist or for that matter a G.P……. I supose I should ‘arden da ‘uck up, ’cause it ain’t gunna change….. and why????
    Wrong side of the Great Dividing Range….( how apt) no matter what the rhetoric … we hav’nt got enough votes to worry about….. tsk,tsk,tsk… city people and your special-ness…. which of course is not a fair evaluation….and yet……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….!!!!!!!!!

  174. ‘I supose I should ‘arden da ‘uck up, ’cause it ain’t gunna change….. and why????’

    The professions prefer to live in metropolitan areas where they can flaunt their wealth and mix with others as arrogant as themselves, but the good news is that their children are ignorant.

    ‘THREE-QUARTERS of Australian children in their final year of primary school believe cotton socks come from animals and 27 per cent are convinced yoghurt grows on trees.’

    Read more:

  175. ‘Mr Whitaker said the current flood was “quite rare”, with river levels not seen in many parts of the country for nearly 40 years.

    “For many parts of NSW this was the biggest rain event since the notorious 1974 floods, and in some locations it may very well have been the biggest rain event ever,” he said.

    What Dick means is that its the biggest rain event since 1900 AD when records began in all seriousness.

  176. LOVO @1.15am..same around here. There is no specialist orthodonist in the northern rivers area who does work for public patients. This therefore means going onto the 7yr waiting list for Tweed Hospital. But it also means continuously being dropped to the bottom of the waiting list because people in the northern rivers are “out of the area”.

  177. swan at npc today. a good follow up to his essay on friday. also the magnates have hit back to the criticism palmer with an opinion piece and forest by an tv ad ( of Course)

  178. Just read (well, a bit) of palmer’s piece now MIn. He starts it out with this major fumble

    All Australians have an inherent right to be treated equally under the law regardless of our race or means or where we live.

    Read more:

    palmer reckons (apparently) that he is treated ‘equally” cos, not only can afford to take 4 page spreads in newspapers to push his views, he is also giving column inches to muse to us on how hard done by he is.

    And he talks about ‘equality’

    It is precisely this that Swan is talking about. And yet, not only does palmer get to ‘voice his concerns’, everywhere, our valiant media lap along behind like the good little doggies they are. Swan was pilloried in the msm for his article. I’ll bet palmer gets knighthood status for this piece of bile.

    He then has this pearler

    Democracy means respecting the rights of all. It means respecting the verdict of all members of society and respecting the results of public polls and the will of the people.

    This, from a guy who has been calling for a new Government ever since the last election. Seems he himself doesn’t overly respect the ‘results of public polls and the will of the people’. (face-palm)

  179. Tom..umm err.. “respecting the results of public polls”?? What an odd thing to say. The plot thickens. Why would Palmer want to emphasise the “authority” of opinion polls..perhaps he knows how the results might be skewed, for example not taking in the younger demographic.

  180. Mr. Abbott is still spreading the myth that this government was selected, not elected.

    Will someone please tell Mr. Abbott this government was formed by those elected by the 58%, that did not vote for him.

    How the government was formulated from those who won in their electorates.

    Mr. Abbott did not get sufficient seats or votes to form a government.

    HE LOST.

    There is no law or condition under the constitution that one party gets to government. There is no mention in the constitution of parties.

    There is no mention of the PM.

    It is individuals that eventually form a government.

    Those with the numbers choose the PM.

    This is as it should be.

    It says something that Mr. Abbott can only find one thing to condemn the PM. That being she is a so and so lie, mostly beginning with “s”.

    He seems to have no other issue to throw up.

    Once again he is saying that firms are having difficulty because of the price on carbon emission, while ignoring the high dollar.

    Mr. Downer is said to believe Carr is on the money. Maybe Mr. Downer and Ms Bishop should have a talk.

  181. Mr. Swan is not attacking super rich for using their money power to undermine the economy.

    He is attacking a very small number of mining magnates of doing so.

    These are people who are saying they are generous in the donations that they give the community, and I assume this means they should not have to pay tax.

    The way it works one first pays their taxes and then give donations. No one has the right to choose how their taxes are spent. They are demanding this right.

    Mr. Palmer is claiming that Mr. Swan has ruined the economy. Will someone ask Mr. Palmer how. The data just proves him wrong.

    Mr. Swan is correct when he says these people are confusing their own interests with the nations.

    Mr. Swan said they do not get rich on their own.

    Of course Mr. Abbott is out there defending the big guy.

    Mr. Swan was asked what was the different in the mining industry using money to protest and the unions. Mr. Swan I a proud of the role played by the workers and their unions. It is the individual workers money that pay for the campaigns.

    I have heard that the Gillard has to do something about the bad blood between her government and the Australian. What is the PM expected to do, to change this situation. Surely they do not mean, she gets on that phone more often, brown nosing the editors. We know that the PM did visited Murdoch on her first trip to the USA.

    Obviously that visit did not go to Murdoch liking.

    Does big business only have a duty to the shareholders. In other words, employees, customers, clients, paying tax, community and the environment do not count.

    Somehow I do not believe that is the way it should work.

    Mr. Palmer, or is it professor Palmer, could not have eared a cent, without the men who dig the ore out of the ground, and been given access to that ore by the rest of Australia.

    He would have had problems if the roads, railway lines and ports were not provided by the Australian taxpayer.

    He would not be making the money that is pouring in if the price has not gone through the roof.

  182. We know who Mr. Abbott chooses to support.

    On Friday Mr Swan said politicians had to choose between standing up for workers and “kneeling down at the feet of the Gina Rineharts and the Clive Palmers”. He said: ”For every Andrew Forrest who wails about high company taxes and then admits to not paying any, there are a hundred Australian business people who held on to their employees and worked with government to keep the doors of Australian business open during the global financial crisis”.
    Mr Swan will take up the theme in an address

    Read more:

  183. Cu, this is from the Treasurer’s NPC Address today:-

    Surveying the wreckage of the GFC, Fukuyama argues the idea of the middle class society is under mortal threat in the West, even as a growing middle class is lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty in the East. It was this argument that prompted me to write the Monthly essay and come here today, really to make four main points about: why this debate about inequality matters in Australia; the role of our contemporary policy mix in advancing the fair go in this country; why productivity, competitiveness and wealth creation is so crucial to providing opportunities to more people; and the risk posed by vested interests who’d rather see the benefits of the Asian Century flow disproportionately to a fortunate few.

  184. ‘…respecting the results of public polls…’

    Ahh…yes, he’s talking about the new democracy.

  185. Cu, from your link to

    Mining barons Clive Palmer and Andrew Forrest have taken on the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, the first labelling him an “intellectual pygmy” who does not understand economics and the second launching a national advertising campaign against him.

    Lyndal Curtis on ABC 24 just asked Assistant Treasurer David Bradbury
    “don’t the government have access to media…..National Press Club
    opinion pieces…. ?”

    She didn’t mention the disgraceful distortions and omissions by her own

    Imagine the uproar from the media [as they collect the advertising fees]
    if the government put front page ads attacking the greedy three in their papers ?

  186. ‘…and the will of the people.’

    As expressed through the polls.

    The people are saying the government is going to be slaughtered at the next election….they can’t say they haven’t beem warned.

  187. Is it about time for Michelle to hang up the boots.

    So Mr. Swan is on the way out.Michelle then goes on to say he has a point.

    Is that having a bet each way, or is it being confused about what is going on today.

    Wayne Swan’s swingeing attack on those among the ultra rich who, he says, confuse the national interest with their own, poison our politics and threaten our economy was, at the very least, out there.
    The Treasurer’s article in The Monthly was Swan unleashed. His analysis was driven by values and frustration. The promotion of a more equal society has been one of his core political commitments over many years. And he’s run up against the toughest rich miners in the battle over the mining tax.
    Swan must know that he’s on the downhill run as Treasurer. Barring a political miracle, he has about 18 months at the most in the job. So he’s having a go. And what a go, with its ”class war” touch and militant language.

    ”We must fight a pitched battle against the influence of vested interests that seek to shape public policy to their own excessive benefit.” While he exempts most business people from his attack, he targets a tiny 1 per cent, or even 0.1 per cent.
    Swan has a point. Moneyed groups can and do undermine or scuttle decisions that are in the wider public’s interest. The mining tax row was such a case. The miners’ campaign didn’t just force the emasculation of a tax; it helped to fell a PM. The power of these interests is accentuated by support from hardline right-wing media personalities.
    But vested interests won on that tax

    Read more:–but-its-a-bit-rich-20120303-1u9bz.html#ixzz1oDtMVK9Z

    Read more:–but-its-a-bit-rich-20120303-1u9bz.html#ixzz1oDsivFvQ

  188. But it was all the PM fault anyway. She had access to the media. Did she not.

    But vested interests won on that tax only because the government – which has massive access to the media to put its case – could not win the public battle and stare them down.
    The carbon price, mentioned by Swan, is a much less clear-cut example – the contending sides have been fairly evenly balanced and both have used money, advertising, lobbying and, on occasions, questionable modelling, which Swan highlights as the weapons of the vested interests.

    Read more:–but-its-a-bit-rich-20120303-1u9bz.html#ixzz1oDuA1qZs

  189. And the cure.

    What can be done about the excessive influence of vested interests (leaving aside the problem of defining when influence becomes excessive)? Caps on spending have been suggested. Maybe, but is that any more logical than, for example, banning (if that were legal) trade unions affiliating with Labor?
    ”Cures” can be worse than the disease. The best checks are transparency and a strong, diverse, pluralistic mainstream media to which the widest range of voices has access in news and views.

    Read more:–but-its-a-bit-rich-20120303-1u9bz.html#ixzz1oDvaYvAY

    It is a pity we do not have such a media.

  190. A pluralistic MSM may not be possible, but there is plenty of diversity on the blogosphere and the ‘widest range of voices.’

  191. El gordo, I would suggest that the majority of people read only the MSM and only then with semi interest..and only then if there is some scandal which catches the attention. Hence the reason that the MSM use such inflamatory headlines. Remember The Rule: The headline – the pic – the 1st paragraph.

    Certainly those who want an alternative point of view from what they read in the newspapers will search other media.

    However, we of the alternative media really do not have any obligation except to put forward an opinion. This compares with the MSM where one expects to read The Facts.

  192. I should add, with regard to obligations – this is with regard to the fact that we are also bound by Common Law – Anti-discrimination.

  193. Sorry, el gordo, there is only one way the will of the people is expressed, that is in a poll, called elections we have every three years. Would be better four.

    Polls can be and are often manipulated and tells us very little.

    Polls are not and can never be plebiscites. Sorry.

    The experts in the field do not claim what you do for polls. They warn about the limitations of polls which you choose to ignore. The same as you do the majority of the scientific world.

    Mr. Hockey had the same problem today. He was asked who the Opposition would rely on for economic advice, as they had rejected all advice from the PS and treasury, along with those who from overseas that give Mr. Swan credit.

    At least one does not have to bother about wasting one’s time reading, if one rejects so many sources.

  194. From daughter Erin: Ran 5k in 25:30… getting closer to my (possibly unrealistic) goal of 5k in 20mins!

    This is 5′ 1 1/2″ daughter which makes her 1/4″ shorter than me, much to her disgust.

    Which just goes to show, that some amazing things can happen when you least expect them.

  195. ‘They warn about the limitations of polls which you choose to ignore. The same as you do the majority of the scientific world.’

    Polls are meant as a guide for politicians, that’s all.

    Your second point clearly illustrates your ignorance of natural variability.

  196. Min, you are lucky. I was a my grand daughters engagement party on Saturday. I like being around Jessica, as she is the only one shorter than me at 5’2″

    Most of my descendants I have to look up to, and size 11 shoes are the norm, even among one or two females.
    I have a tiny 12 year old grand son, his father is small built as well. Well I did at Christmas. Not now, he has shot up past me, and I assume now will keep going. Good for him though.

    Mr. Swan was on The Project.

  197. No el gordo, it does not. I am well aware of the history of this planet.

    So aware that I know what you say is bullshit.

    Sorry, but you are twisting and manipulating that history to fit in with your fact.

    Most know we have had ice ages in the past. Most do not know how they came about or over what period.

    Like all denialists, there is a little truth in what you say.

    It matters not what I think, or what you think for that matter, we are fast approaching the time when we know for sure.

    For the sake of the world, I do hope you are correct, but I fear that is wishful thinking on my part.

  198. ‘…we are fast approaching the time when we know for sure.’

    If I’m correct we should know within five years. Regional cooling should have spread far and wide by then.

  199. El gordo, thank which time I will have knitted at least 10 pairs of woolly socks which should tide myself and my loved one over during the impending ice age.

  200. ‘Like all denialists, there is a little truth in what you say.’

    The Denialati are not making shit up, its all down hill from here according to the science.

  201. ‘…during the impending ice age.’

    Nothing so serious as that, just a downward trend for 20 years and then it may head on up again.

    Nobody can say for sure, because the science is not settled, but within five years the Denialati will have proven that CO2 is not making the world warmer as predicted by the IPCC.

    The irony is that the sun and moon are probably the main influence on our climate.

  202. “The Denialati are not making shit up, its all down hill from here according to the science.”

    el gordo, that maybe true. You are just misinterpreting the facts to suit your opinion, which I am sure you truly believe.

  203. El gordo, I will believe you when you can explain some basic science to me. Bear with me, I’m an old lady and only studied science to 2nd form.

    You see it’s like this, everything in nature has to achieve a balance. Too much of one thing, too little of the other then things get out of balance. Nature can cope, can adapt to a certain extent but eventually cannot cope any’s too far out of balance.

    It’s the same with CO2, which is not in itself a pollutant but a natural part of the environment. Too much or too little, then basically we’re stuffed.

  204. “The irony is that the sun and moon are probably the main influence on our climate.”

    That is true, natural influence. That does not detract from the fact that there are also man made influences that can be and I believe are having a serious negative influence.

    The natural ones, we can do little about. The man made one we can, but only if we act quickly.

    The damage being done cannot be reversed.

  205. It is not only the Treasurer having a whinge about Palmer and company.

    “In small business there’s 2.5 million of us. Between us we employ another 5 million people, so there’s 7.5 million people earning an income from the business, yet all the focus is on people like mining magnates,” he said.

    “Now the mines only employ 90,000 people.”

    Mr Strong does not have too much sympathy with Mr Forrest and Mr Palmer over their claims of being unfairly attacked by the Treasurer.

    “The last six months the focus on us from the Government, the Opposition, the Greens, everybody, has increased enormously,” he said.

    “And I think somewhere along the line some people have said, ‘look, this is ridiculous, all we’re hearing is whingeing rich people who are complaining about not being rich enough, when in actual fact the economy is based upon small business people out there in the suburbs and the factories of Australia’.”

  206. ‘Nature can cope, can adapt to a certain extent but eventually cannot cope any’s too far out of balance.’

    Nature rules supreme, yet chaos to us. Looking at our air conditioning system, there is no reason to tinker by reducing CO2, its not responsible for the modest warming last century.

    Gaia has the situation well in hand… so don’t worry about a slight increase in industrial CO2 upsetting the balance.

  207. ‘The natural ones, we can do little about. The man made one we can, but only if we act quickly.’

    There is no global warming tipping point, therefore no need to act quickly.

  208. I do hope you are correct but common sense and the evidence of the experts suggest your are not.

  209. ‘…evidence of the experts suggest your are not.’

    When the Klimatariat introduced the ‘precautionary principle’ it was always going to be hard to prove otherwise.

    We better do something just in case this theory is correct, the politicians then came on board and the rest is history.

    The warming that began in 1976, known as the Great Climate Shift, clearly had no relation to the increase in CO2. In a similar way, the cooling taking place now, after the climate shift earlier this century, is unrelated to the increase in CO2.

    The positive and negative feedback mechanisms are complex and need to be discussed region by region to see what is coming.

  210. Mr Strong is right. The super rich whining that they’re not rich enough is repugnant. The whole mining industry employs just 90,000 people, 1.8% of the number employed by small business, yet they have been largely ignored until now, unless they’re required as political pawns.

    Mind you, I’d say most of these small business owners have been wholehearted supporters of the Liars Party now and in the past. I think they have been brainwashed into believing that the Liars Party is the party that supports business and that the ALP is out to get them.

    Perhaps the ongoing bullshit from the Gang of Three, the Liars Party response, and Swan’s articulation of the government’s “narrative” wrt assistance to small business and manufacturing has prompted them to have a re-think.

    What’s chuckle worthy is that finally the message seems to be getting out, despite the best efforts of the msm.

  211. It appears that school halls provided under BER, along with the upgrading of IT technology, computers, language labs, libraries, science labs and cover from the sun should not have been built.

    Why, it appears that the schools cannot afford the cleaning of the hall or provide electricity. We all know how hard it is to clean a hall, on top of the rest of the school. I am sure the electricity is great.

    Maybe more should avail themselves of the solar schemes that were available. Maybe the Victorian government should look at this option. There are great expanses of roof available.

    All them interactive whiteboards in every classroom must be sending the state broke.

    My latest grandchild in kindy loves that magic board, one can play games on. Her favourite game is finding her name within a balloon each day, and busting that balloon. I am sure as time goes on, there will be numerous similar games to replace this one.

  212. Roswell, you could be right. It does on the tides, I do not know if this affects the weather.

  213. el gordo, you over look is the fact that it is the accumulation of CO 2 emissions that caused the problem.

    Once in the upper atmosphere, it is there for a least a thousand years.

    Are you saying that this is not true. That the CO 2 is building up in the atmosphere.

    Europe and the USA dealt with acid rain and the damage done to forests by banning a certain chemical that we used in our freezers and spray cans. That hole in the ozone layer is disappearing.

    That was man made, and man made action reverse the problem.

  214. The GST increased the workload of small business probably more that any other government action. It has been good for my daughter, it has allowed her to work from home and to her own time plan, for many of these one man businesses.

    Not too sure how WorkChoices affected them, but I suspect it did not make things easier.

    The FWA has not been without complaint but I believe once the trimming of awards settle down, their job will be easier.

  215. ‘I doubt the moon has any influence on our climate.’

    Apart from the tides?

    ‘Once in the upper atmosphere, it is there for a least a thousand years.’

    This is news to me, it was my understanding that industrial CO2 came down not far from its source.

    ‘That hole in the ozone layer is disappearing.’


  216. el gordo, if it came down close to it’s source there would be no problem. Please do not tell that scientist are that mistaken.

    Yes, the last I read, which was a long time ago, the hole was closing. The acid rain damaged has been reversed.

    If it comes down where it is sourced, why is it so hard to contain the emissions from coal powerhouses.

    I suspect it is because you are wrong.

  217. That’s a matter of opinion, baccy.

    CU most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is natural and being released from warming oceans.

  218. THE NEWS WRAP: Andrew Robb casts doubt on paid parental leave proposals
    By Oliver Milman
    Tuesday, 06 March 2012

    Members of the Coalition appear to be split over its paid parental leave scheme policy, with finance spokesman Andrew Robb saying that the opposition “haven’t finalised any of our major policies.”

    Although Robb distanced himself from backing the scheme, deputy opposition leader Julie Bishop said that she and Tony Abbott still supported a “fair dinkum” scheme that would require businesses to pay all new mothers their full wage for six months, with the benefit capped at $75,000.

  219. Bacchus,
    el grodo only believes the information provided by authors who
    happen to be funded by the Big Oil and Big Coal and their think tanks.

  220. “CU most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is natural and being released from warming oceans.”

    Why does natural CO2 remain in the atmosphere and not man made.

    Is one lighter or heavier than the other.

    I suggest it all stays in the upper atmosphere. If Mr. Abbott is right and it is weightless, it would rise even higher.

    So el gordo, that released by the ocean goes up. What is released by man goes down.

  221. el grodo’s mention of oceans causes me to suggest the she read up on the damage to those oceans which is caused by the excess of carbon.

  222. El Gordo, To reiterate an earlier post…..March 1st 11.36pm..

    ….. another curve ya might want to consider (prt 2)

  223. Maybe this article is nearer to the truth. Yes man made climate change is true, but maybe we do not know all the answers yet..

    What has happened is akin to the anti smokers campaign in saying smoking causes cancer, when the message should have been might cause cancer. They went for the simple message that many believes will only work.

    They have been doing the same with man made climate change message. This has left openings for the likes of el gordo to use the obvious gaps in knowledge to say all is wrong.

    But is that the whole truth in every detail? No. Some of the details are yet to be settled. How much more warming are we going to get by, say, the end of this century? The best estimate is between 3.2ºF and 7.2ºF above where things stood in 2000, but a few scientists say it could even be lower than 3.2ºF.
    This isn’t entirely crazy: global warming causes more water to evaporate into the atmosphere, leading to more clouds. The balance of evidence suggests that the result will be to increase warming, because water vapor is itself a heat-trapping greenhouse gas. But a small minority of scientists thinks things might go the other way, and the answer isn’t really certain yet.
    So should the overall message be that nobody knows anything? I don’t think so. We would never want to pretend the uncertainty isn’t there, since that would be dishonest. But featuring it prominently is dishonest too, just as trumpeting uncertainty in the smoking-cancer connection would have been.
    Another source of uncertainty comes in making the human-warming connection. “Maybe it’s the sun,” say some skeptics, and while the sun hasn’t brightened at all during the most recent half-century when the warming has been greatest, there are plausible, though not proven, ways the sun could cause global warming without itself warming up.

    For climate change, here’s my take (you already saw it above): The Earth is warming. It’s largely due to us. It’s going to keep warming unless we do something. And there’s a significant chance that the consequences will be disastrous.

  224. NPC Women’s day edition. Watching Case praising Abbott’s parental scheme. It is easy, work hard and one succeeds.

  225. ‘Why does natural CO2 remain in the atmosphere and not man made.’

    They both fall to earth in reasonable proximity…the increase in CO2 from warmer oceans is a universal problem, but apparently there is nothing we can do about it.

    Pip the acidification question has some merit, but is not of grave concern.

  226. LOVO, could not have said it better.

    God, she is a nasty woman. Where does one develop that voice and arrogance.

  227. CU, I wonder if budgie smugglers’ budgie sucks seeds without a beak too !! :lol
    …… assuming of course he’s a bird lover… though I do hear that he’s fond of Turkeys….

  228. This is the ruined economy that besieges us.

    On the domestic front, he said the Australian economy was seeing close to average growth, although he did acknowledge it was undergoing considerable “structural change” and conditions were varied between sectors.

    Mr Stevens noted that many banks had lifted their interest rates since the board’s February meeting, although he maintained that rates were “close to their medium-term average”.

    And he pointed out that inflation had fallen, as expected, and the bank believed it would continue to fall through the year although it would remain within the RBA’s target of 2 to 3 per cent.

    “With growth expected to be close to trend and inflation close to target, the Board judged that the setting of monetary policy remained appropriate for the moment,” Mr Stevens said.

    “Should demand conditions weaken materially, the inflation outlook would provide scope for easier monetary policy.”

    Mr Stevens also noted the recent resurgence of the Australian dollar despite a decline in the terms of trade.

    Speaking before the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Economics last month, he described this situation as “a bit odd” and said the board continued to wonder whether the strength of the dollar made sense.

    But in a note on the RBA’s decision, UBS chief economist for Australasia Scott Haslem said other factors would have outweighed this concern.

    “While the rising Australian dollar was seen somewhat at odds with the recent falls in commodity prices (seemingly an argument to lower the cash rate to offset this impact), the recent steadying of the unemployment rate was noted (a rationale for keeping rates steady),” Mr Haslem said.

  229. LOVO, he is not fond of turkeys, he is a turkey.

    Like turkeys, he makes must noise that is much ado about nothing.
    Like a turkey, it is the same sound over, over and over.

    Once you have heard a turkey gobble, that is it. No new sound to look forwarded to.

  230. We have the abpve about the economy and all we hear from the turkey is “carbon tax”

    He did not address what worries farmers the most, the way Coles and Woolworths are squeezing them, while he was in a dairying area, the worse effected.

  231. Once again the lady does, not talks.

    By the way, Mr. Hockey promises to balance the books every year. He is going to do this I assume whether the economy warrants it or not. Glad he was not in power during the GFC. We would still be clearing the unemployment and have a bigger debt than we have n

    Julia Gillard has announced the chief executives of the Australia’s biggest companies will join state and territory leaders on a new business forum.

    ‘Cutting red tape is a key priority for the Gillard government as excessive regulation lowers business costs and hinders productivity,’ she told reporters in Canberra on Tuesday.

    The prime minister will chair the forum, which will hold its first meeting on April 12 prior to the next meeting of the Council of Australian Governments.

    Ms Gillard said 25 business representatives will be ‘at the drawing board’.

    They will have two main roles: to advise governments on how best to coordinate and progress the remaining areas of competition and regulatory reform; and to nominate new areas of regulatory reform that will help lift productivity and drive investment.

  232. I believe the more that Queensland sees of Mr. Newman, the more concerned they will become.

    I know I do.

  233. CU, your right, say anything and all you get is gobble-de-gook as seen at this recent Lieberal xmas get together :-

    : lol

  234. LOVO, all one has to do is say gobble gobble and they perform. Same answer I believe given to every question.

    Is this divide and rule.

    Ms Gillard said as well as CEOs, the Business Council of Australia, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the Australian Industry Group and the Council of Small Business will all have a seat at the the table.

    “While COAG members often hold individual dialogues with business figures in their own state and territory, this forum will allow business leaders to put their case on the national stage,” the Prime Minister said in Canberra.

    “Cutting red tape is a key priority for the Gillard government as excessive regulation lowers business costs and hinders productivity.

    “We want leaders of the nation as they meet at COAG to hear directly from Australian business about what would make them more productive and what regulation challenges they face.

  235. Incompetent lady with no respect from anyone. Is she as Senator Cash said more than once, at the NPC, incompetent and to boot, a liar.

    BCA president Tony Shepherd said the forum was a chance to “reset the agenda and get the federation working better” by cutting red tape and removing costs that dragged down the economy.

    “We have been federated now for 112 years, it is time we started to operate as a national economy. Our competition is not internal, our competition is external,” he said.

    ACCI chief Peter Anderson also backed the forum, arguing it would qualitively improve the dialogue between business and government.

    “If this forum operates as proposed it holds the potential of adding significantly to the social infrastructure in Australia in the forum of dialogue between our private and public sectors on matters of national economic regulation,” he said.

  236. Quarterly Essay, “Bad News”. But there was more to my suspicions than this. Higgins was personally responsible for a defamatory attack last year on another favourite target of the Australian, the Climate Change Commissioner Professor Tim Flannery. Astonishingly, Higgins’s article (The Australian, August 6, 2011) suggested that Tim Flannery had invented stories about climate change and rising sea levels to frighten elderly residents with properties on the Hawkesbury River for his own personal financial gain. Professor Flannery’s account of this incident is found in the Correspondence section of the most recent Quarterly Essay. Eventually The Australian was obliged to publish an unequivocal apology to Professor Flannery.

    The apology read:

    “On August 6, 2011, the Weekend Australian published an article concerning Climate Change Commissioner Professor Tim Flannery and referring to an observation from the forum. The article suggested Professor Flannery’s public comments on climate change frightened elderly owners to sell coastal properties to climate change proponents. The Weekend Australian accepts that Professor Flannery’s comments were never intended in this way. The Weekend Australian apologises to Professor Flannery and his family for any hurt and embarrassment the article may have caused.”

  237. A comment on that other site, I am inclined to agree with. They are using the pay-wall as a filter.

    Cannot but wholeheartedly agree about the systematic bias in the Australian. I have also noticed a new trait in the online version of the Australian. It seems that articles critical of the present Federal Government tend to stay on a free access basis for a considerable time whereas neutral or, dare I say, the rare favorable article or commentary are quickly buried behind the paywall far from the prying eyes of the common man!

  238. Cu, that’s a very similar trick to which we have previously noted..and over several years.

    The media bleat how “unfair” is the electronic media yet they have quickly learnt to use it and to their best advantage. For example, a positive article for the government can be put up and disappear within a couple of hours whereas a Glossy Pic of Tony Abbott will be put up Friday and stay there for the entire weekend.

  239. With thanks to Tony Abbott Will Never Be Prime Minister Facebook group..

    Quote of the day:

    “You sound like a Liberal Propagandist”

    Bob Brown, to Chris Uhlmann, after yet another dreadful interview on 7.30 Report…

  240. Min @ 9.55pm, “7.30”

    Australian Broadcasting Corporation
    Broadcast: 06/03/2012
    Reporter: Chris Uhlmann

    Senator Bob Brown reacts to questions over the Great Barrier Reef’s management and the influence of vested interests on politics.


    BOB BROWN: Yes, I do. I’m saying to you: we need to get the money from that so we can have all those positive things I’ve been talking about, and I agree with the Treasurer.

    CHRIS UHLMANN: But you can’t do that if you shut the industry down. You won’t get any of it.

    BOB BROWN: I’m not going to shut the mining industry down, Chris. You’re sounding like a Liberal propagandist. I’ve never said that, and nor would we.

    Uhlmann is a Liberal propagandist!

  241. At another stage, Senator Brown said his questions were stupid.

    It was indeed a poor interview. This man has no skills whatever.

  242. Typical ulman ther Pip

    I just don’t follow the argument about how it’s affecting the Australian fair go, where over the last decade in fact we haven’t seen the division between rich and poor that we’ve seen in the United Kingdom and the United States.

    The facts are, the divisions between rich and poor HAVE increased in Australia. ulman wants to pretend that just ocs it’s not as bad as other countries, it isn’t an issue. What he is saying is very deceptive and misleading, particularity from someone who is supposed to be an unbiased interviewer

    What a toolman.

  243. Is there anyone with a superior knowledge of taxation than myself (which basically means everyone), who might provide an explanation as to the pros and cons of zonal taxation.

    THE Nationals are mounting a renewed push within the Coalition for a commitment to zonal taxation, with some urging support for Tony Abbott’s paid parental leave scheme to be used as a bargaining chip.

  244. I enjoy reading King Rats comments on tax and the state of the European economy. I get turned off though when he starts ranting on other trivial matters. It’s one of the reasons I don’t visit his blog site much these days.

  245. Miglo and Roswell,

    I don’t go there myself either anymore, tried it once to put in a reasonable coment and was called a troll.

    Sorry Min,

    I can’t help with an answer to your question.

  246. Miglo @ 10.43pm, Uhlmann isn’t used to being challenged about his biased attitude, or his rudeness, and it would be an excellent idea if more of his ‘targets’ bit back!

  247. ‘…tried it once to put in a reasonable comment and was called a troll.’

    If you could give me a rough date of when that happened, I’ll check it out.
    Rarely is someone called out for being a troll…although I admit to raising the flag over the weekend when a ghostly trio of sock puppets wandered into the shed.

    As you may know GT is open to all, even sock puppets are welcome, but not necessarily vile creatures like a ‘nasty troll’.

  248. el gordo,

    I can’t help you with the date, sometime last year. Don’t worry about it mate, I won’t be going back something about the venom that doesn’t appeal to me.

  249. That’s okay Antony, its of no consequence.


    ‘And yet you are permitted to continue trolling here. Even after you have said you wouldn’t…’

    I’m not a troll here, you must be mistaken.

  250. Oh…I see, its the interpretation of ‘troll’ we are discussing. At the very worst I’m only a ‘concern troll’, a title given to me by my Deltoidian mates.

    As you all know I have an obsession with CC, which earned me a red card over the weekend at another place. So I’ll spend time here and hope Min puts up another post on the subject.

    I really enjoyed her last effort on Southern Ocean Warming.

  251. I’m not very familiar with what characterises a troll so I have refrained from applying that label to anyone.

    I’ll tell you what annoys me though, and that is hypocrisy. A couple of weeks ago I mentioned gay leprechauns and TB jumped on me in a flash, saying that my comment was dumb and dumber. Miglo deleted my comment and I took it on the chin. Then elsewhere I see the same bloke laughing along with demeaning comments targeting people from this blog site. Now that’s what I call hypocrisy.

    I guess he’ll be over here soon to jump on me again. I’m ready.

  252. El gordo, I enjoy your visits here. With a bit of practice you might become as interesting as Tom. 🙂

  253. grodo earnt the title ‘troll’ cos he/she/it constantly puts up links to already debunked bits of denialati nonsense repeatedly, which does nothing but obscure debate rather than advance it.

    The latest was just another in a long list of meaningless crap with no explanation and no other purpose than to try and pretend that something that is wished for might be interpreted that way.

    Almost time for a history lesson methinks 😉

  254. Miglo should not have deleted, let evrything run its course.

    And thankyou Roswell, I will never be as witty as ToR or ToM, both with unique styles…but that’s another story.

  255. You are you, el gordo. I like you just the way you are. I enjoy engaging with you, that is, when you stick around long enough to be engaged. You have a propensity to hit and run.

  256. A former head of the Immigration Department says Tony Abbott’s plan to reopen the refugee detention centre on Nauru would be foolish and futile.

    During a speech in Sydney last night, John Menadue, a former Immigration Department secretary and a former head of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, launched a scathing attack on the Coalition’s immigration policies.

    He said re-opening the detention centre on Nauru would be too expensive.

    “Under the Howard government it didn’t work, and will not work again in the future,” he said.

    “It’s just futile in my view to continue … with one-liners and slogans about Nauru.

    AUDIO: Listen to the AM interview (AM)
    “The Opposition has this phobia about boats. Seventy-six per cent of asylum seekers in the last decade came by air.”

    He also accused the Opposition’s Immigration spokesman, Scott Morrison, of generating xenophobia.

    “Probably one of the most outrageous things I’ve heard from Scott Morrison recently – and it was last week – was when he drew attention to infectious diseases which asylum seekers were bringing to this country,” he said.

    “I don’t know that I’ve ever seen or heard, certainly for a long time, anything as disgraceful as that sort of proposition, that somehow by being generous and accommodating to asylum seekers that they’re bringing diseases to this country.

    “That is a disgraceful proposition and Scott Morrison should withdraw it.

  257. ‘Almost time for a history lesson methinks’

    No fkn fear, I’m outa here.


    ‘You have a propensity to hit and run.’

    Good observation, Roswell. For me its still a hostile and alien environment.

  258. el gordo,

    What are the fine ladies and gentlemen of Cafe Whispers going to do to you, hit you over the head with a fluffy slipper. 🙄

  259. Another lie, I believe so.

    Some say misleading.

    Hunt’s scare tactics ‘misleading’

    On 2UE yesterday, Mr Hunt said: ”The Climate Commission is something that we’ll abolish … the structure that they’ve built around Tim and others of this Climate Commission gives incredible power … to control tax rates and electricity prices to an unelected body,” Mr Hunt said.

    Read more:

  260. Tom has a dirt file on my past and has threatened to use it.

    Typical ALP factional stuff, a crashing together of Cultural Marxist memes gets personal.

    The warfare in federal politics is mirrored here on the ground.

  261. “So I’ll spend time here and hope Min puts up another post on the subject.”

    el gordo, I am waiting for your post. Should be interesting. A chance to pull it altogether for us.

  262. Min, not only a shocking story of Morrison, it did not make sense. It ignore the rates of the same illnesses in Australia.

    The figures he used were lower than the general community in Australia.

    Except for two possible cases of typhoid, which is easily treated and quickly picked up.

    It only lasted a few hours.

    The comments that his spiel attracted were mostly negative of Mr. Morrison. It was not well received.

  263. “Wine, women and song”

    Miglo, a little unfair to many on this site. Why not “Wine, men and song”

  264. “Wine, women and song”

    Miglo, a little unfair to many on this site. Why not “Wine, men and song”

    Catching up, I was being cheeky. We’re often called a knitting group by the ill informed so I put up that temporary slogan.

  265. For me its still a hostile and alien environment.

    So we’ve gone from groupthink to hostile. Any other extremes you can think of?

  266. Cu, plus the reason..and I’m going against The Greens here, for mandatory detention which include health checks.

    Some people do not come from areas where everyone is fully immunised against diseases such as polio, however, the inference from Morrison is that these people are inheritantly worse than others due to being “diseased”.

    This reminded me of children’s about those types of people.

  267. Maybe Mr. Abbott can take a leaf out of Mr. O’Farrell’s book.

    My emphasis.

    NSW Premier Barry O’Farrell welcomed the announcement.

    Asked how he reconciled it with his opposition to the federal government’s carbon tax, Mr O’Farrell replied: ‘As a parliamentarian I respect parliament.

    ‘The legislation has been passed, it’s a decision by the federal government to allocate funds to this corporation, and I’m delighted the corporation and its jobs are coming to NSW,’ he told reporters at a joint press conference with Ms Gillard.

    The clean energy finance corporation is due to commence operations in 2013/14.

    The government has appointed Reserve Bank board member Jillian Broadbent as the body’s chair. She’s also conducting a review to advise on the design of the corporation.

  268. Capitol Hill. More bullshit from the Liberals. Lyndal doing her best.

    Company profits should be better, no matter what is going on in the rest of the world.

    Flood etc. have no place in poor results.

    Labor, talking the economy down should cease. One hundred percent agree.

    Labor, the floods in Queensland etc. did lower company profits.

    It is about carbon and mining tax, Is it.

    How can one sit there and lie so easily, or could it be that they actually believe the tripe they are spuiking. I fear that is the case.

  269. Miglo, on wine women and song…. sounds like their talking revolution…, well thats the whisper…


  270. I cannot explain the stupidly.

    If interested, please watch.

    Did senator Cash say yesterday that women in the Coalition are picked on ability not quotas.

    If this is the result, give me the quota system any day. The Liberal system is obviously failing.

    The Liberal women appear to have one thing in common, the ability to sound nasty and lie convincingly.

  271. “Tom has a dirt file on my past and has threatened to use it.”

    el gordo, you must be mistaken. There is no need for one.

    Give you enough time and you will recycle all your comments.

  272. Cu, thank you for pointing out that comment.

    El gordo @4.10pm Tom has a dirt file on my past and has threatened to use it.

    I would take that accusation as being defamatory. El gordo has the opportunity to withdraw this, or to provide substantive evidence.

  273. “Catching up, I was being cheeky. We’re often called a knitting group by the ill informed so I put up that temporary slogan.”

    Miglo what is wrong with knitting. Even our PM has this skill.

    She knitted a jacket for Senator Wong’s baby. Not knowing the sex, it was reported to be brown. Now I suspect it was light fawn, which believe it or not, a baby colour.

    Knitting is very good for the nerves.

  274. No, Migs, I was only having a little fun,

    Maybe a little competition would not go amiss.

  275. Min,

    I believe el gordo may be referring to evidence of her time at Deltoid – I can see that she may consider her own words at that place to constitute a “dirt file” 😆

  276. It’s kind of sad isn’t it Bacchus, when a simply regurgitation of your online comments can be considered a ‘dirt file’

  277. knitwits (your spelling is atrocious)

    And, we have to keep up appearances for the lurkers 😉

  278. The singular component of dirt files is that they’re full of crap. They work like newspapers: truth doesn’t sell a paper, bullshit does.

  279. Miglo, why don’t you add bullshit to your blog site. El gordo and her mates might enjoy a place like that.

  280. Miglo, could be right. I can remember a very bad time in my life where knitting and to a greater extent crocheting save my sanity

    Have not done much of either since.

    At the time it was obsessive.

  281. With the lower growth figures released today, we are still one of the fastest growth in the world.

    That needs to be remembered before we let the Opposition scare tactics get off the ground.

  282. Cu, only when it’s a love job.

    Roswell, don’t go there you never know what you might end up having stuck to your boots.

  283. LOVO, thank you..that’s a very crafty site.

    About now I should own up to being a’s good to make something new and original, with one’s own imagination and not just what the fashion mags tell you what you should be buying.

  284. Interesting. maybe they came up with nothing or once again there is division within the party.

    The federal opposition has opted to sit on their new policy to tackle problem gambling, in light of Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s recent U-turn to withdraw support for pokies mandatory pre-commitment technology.

    In November, the coalition set up an internal gambling taskforce to talk to community and industry representatives about ways to tackle poker machine addiction and was supposed to report back in late February.

    The taskforce was excluding mandatory pre-commitment technology as an option.

    Looks like the Wagga council was wise in buying that levee wall off the Germans around 1990, even if it has taken this long to find a use for it.

  285. Follow on from above.

    Mr. Wilkie disappointed, Why, surely he did not expect anything different from the Liberals.

    As all in the know seem to support the Wilkie plan, what else would have they said to the Liberals. Pressure should be put on them to release where they stand now.

    Pre-commitment technology requires gamblers to set limits on the amount of money they are willing to lose on high-betting machines which can chew through an average $1200 an hour.

    Anti-pokies crusader Mr Wilkie said he was disappointed with the opposition’s silence.

    ‘It’s simply not good enough for the opposition to put this in the too hard basket,’ he said.

    He said the government’s broken promise ‘was dreadful behaviour and its watered-down pokies package is patently unsatisfactory without amendments’.

    ‘But at least the government has something on the table which is more than can be said for the opposition right now.’

  286. Cu, from your link..

    Anti-pokies crusader Mr Wilkie said he was disappointed with the opposition’s silence.

    ‘It’s simply not good enough for the opposition to put this in the too hard basket,’ he said.

    He said the government’s broken promise ‘was dreadful behaviour and its watered-down pokies package is patently unsatisfactory without amendments’.

    ‘But at least the government has something on the table which is more than can be said for the opposition right now.’

    Hallelujah, Andrew Wilkie..wakie, wakie time..surely Wilkie didn’t think that the Opposition would ever actually do anything about poker machine reform.

    Unsatisfactory, the government’s legislation might be to Wilkie but it’s a start, and also from the same link, the opposition says that tackling poker machine reform is States’ if it would even cross O’Farrell’s puny little brain to even consider poker machine reform.

  287. Miglo, a week or so ago, I was going to suggest a ongoing site for Opposition tripe. I thought better of it.

    They say so much that goes no where but needs recording.

  288. You may have to work on growing your manboobs before that will fit though Tom :mrgreen:

    Judging by what I found when I went looking for a male equivalent Min, you’d better not say 😀

  289. Bacchus, first thing in the morning I’ll be off to buy some patterns. For what I have in mind, I won’t be needing much wool.

  290. Thanks Bacchus, I especially like ‘Lycia The Repentant’ from christian post, ” on her knees for god”… priceless….

  291. Miglo, I noticed on christian link( LOVO @ 8.41) that they had .gif’s(smilies) after their names, sorta like awards that they have won, hover over earth .gif and it says El Gordo…… I swear…… maybe you, min and bacchus could come up with similar for your cafe customers

  292. LOVO, it looks like they are just icons to links. I couldn’t find El Gordo and for that I’m devastated. I wonder if I’ll still go to Heaven.

    Bacchus is in to awards, seeing that you asked. He drank for gold medal wines over the weekend.

  293. I forgot to mention Migs, they come in an assortment of colours and prints 😀

    florals, birds and bees, animal prints, polka dots…..

  294. LOVO,

    Roswell only has a small……
    amount of wool. Do you have a pattern for a smaller version? :mrgreen:

  295. The image above gives us a clear indication of what conditions were like on the ground between 1000 and 1400 AD, a predominance of La Nina because of a persistent cool PDO.

    Wildlife was abundant and I imagine the human population also increased.

  296. The Australian Graduate School of Management (AGSM) report, which has been released to mark International Women’s Day, has given Ms Gillard an A-plus for conflict management, legislative change and re-engaging with the public service in Canberra.

    The report card says Ms Gillard has managed a complex minority government to achieve a large amount of legislative change in a short period of time.

    But it says she is struggling with voters because she lost their trust over the mining tax and carbon tax, and double standards are being used to assess her leadership.

    According to AGSM executive director Rosemary Howard, Ms Gillard is being judged more harshly than her male peers.

    “There is definitely clear evidence that we judge women against male criteria in terms of leadership attributes and so that misjudgement, often about superficial things, gets in the way of us consciously and unconsciously recognising what she’s done really well,” she said.

    The PM gets a double whammy. One for being a Labor leader. Two for being a woman.

  297. On the flip side Cu, many journalists award Abbott with a triple whammy. Three points for being leader of the opposition and three points for being a male.

  298. Cu, also if a male uses the ‘softer side’, such as the wife as kiddies..that’s fine and admirable, but if a woman does something similar it’s called playing the gender card.

  299. Min, we woman know we cannot win. Still it is nice to have males around, even if they are not vital to our survival.

    Miglo, you are correct. All Mr. Abbott has to do is be male and lead the Coalition.

    Nothing else matters such as ability and having policies that are right for the Nation.

    Miglo, I do not know what woman have to do to get respect for their ability and skills to lead.

  300. Min, we all know that the woman’s softer side is a myth. A woman can and is often as tough as any male.

  301. Miglo there is always pressure on wildlife, since the beginning, but there needs to be a recognition that it will return in abundance if given the right conditions.

    The whales will return if we stop hunting them, that is clearly true, but in a more general sense all the wildlife not endangered will naturally produce plenty ‘off spring’ in good seasons.

  302. Miglo there is always pressure on wildlife, since the beginning, but there needs to be a recognition that it will return in abundance if given the right conditions.

    That I cannot disagree with, el gordo. I just don’t think the conditions are too favourable at the moment.

  303. 8 March 2012, 6.38am AEST
    ADFA Skype scandal: Smith’s reviews could help defence to change its culture

    Today’s headlines regarding the Defence Minister Stephen Smith are wheedling for an apology from him for his actions regarding the Navy “skype” incident.

    For what it’s worth I don’t think Minister Smith should apologise.
    Since forever, woman have had to deal with being attacked on
    character grounds after they have reported being sexually assaulted.

    Does anyone remember a few years ago, the cases of two navy woman who searched unsuccessfully for years for justice. The Navy’s handling of incidents was outrageous.
    That informtion must be available somewhere in cyber space but so far I can’t find it.

    In the ‘Skype’ case the Commandant chose to pursue another disciplinary matter regarding the young woman concurrently with the Skype matter
    There is no legal reason not to do this, but as Minister Smith said on 7.30

    Now, I draw no reference or inference to ADFA or Commodore Kafer ADFA staff, but when I grew up and trained as a lawyer it was still some common practice in Australia when we found the victim of an alleged sexual abuse to somehow try and blame the victim. I’ve a very strong view on that and I won’t resile from it.

  304. In the MDB, the second year of the big wet, wildlife is flourishinng,


  305. In the MDB, the second year of the big wet, wildlife is flourishinng,

    Indeed. The duck and fish populations are out of control. We need to eat more fish.

  306. In a funny sort of way it would be an excellent time to sell water at the high price they have set, but it’s the tax payers who have to foot the bill.

    So it has to be a political no brainer.

  307. Yes, el gordo the whales might return if we stop hunting them.

    They definitely will not if we destroy their habitat.

  308. It is nice to see that today’s unemployment figures have cheered Mr. Abbott up. It has been a while since we have seen a smile on his face.

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says he will only believe that the government can return a surplus when he sees one.

    Wayne Swan is sticking to his guns to deliver a surplus in his 2012/13 budget, due to be handed down on May 8, despite the latest national accounts showing the economy grew by just 0.4 per cent in the December quarter.

    In November’s mid-year budget review the government forecast a $1.5 billion surplus in 2012/13, which would be a massive turnaround from a predicted $37.1 billion deficit this financial year.

    But Mr Abbott told reporters in Melbourne he would ‘believe it when I see it’, noting Labor had not delivered a surplus since being elected in 2007.

    Instead it was responsible for the four biggest deficits in Australian history, racking up $167 billion worth of budget shortfalls.

    Using the projected surplus for next year, Mr Abbott said: ‘It would take a 100 years of Swannie surpluses to make up for just four years for Swannie deficits.’

    Secret Report CH 10..News. Sky scandal. Gives more cover for Steven Smith.

    Her room was not spray with shaving cream. It was jif cleaning liquor.

    The girl is banned from talking.

    Maybe Mr. Abbott might just have a little egg on his face.

    Looks like Smith has been vindicated.

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