Café Talk IX

Time for a new page for open discussion. All subjects welcome.

475 comments on “Café Talk IX

  1. Just found this article ZD net about the NBN, but more specific, it was on Malcolm Turnbull’s lack of attack on the government over its policy and the coalitions policy.

    However you feel about the national broadband network, it’s hard to dispute that lately, Australia’s Shadow Minister for Communications and Broadband Malcolm Turnbull has been struggling to find new traction in his arguments against the project.

    Most of his arguments about the NBN, like most policies under Tony Abbott’s Coalition, seem to have relied on a modicum of fact, a generous dose of blind stonewalling, and general Abbott-esque revulsion of the Labor government.

    Now, with Labor’s popularity apparently on the rise, a major element of Coalition politicking has been defanged. Turnbull must up his game and stop being a bottomless font of NBN opposition (an area in which, despite the noise, he has ultimately accomplished little more than generating a massive stream of oppositional media appearances, and negative but ineffectual press coverage).

    If we accept that Turnbull, to date, has failed to delineate a clear and coherent alternative NBN policy with enough credibility to swing voters the Coalition’s way — does that, therefore, mean that Abbott’s crew has no hope of winning next year’s election based on Turnbull’s telecommunications portfolio?

    They even give Turnbull ideas of where to attack the government, but one assumes he will not do this as Abbott is so against the NBN.

    This at the end of the article.

    Abbott and Turnbull (or, as the case may be, Turnbull as PM and Paul Fletcher as communications minister) may well choose that path — but by ignoring the rest of the telecommunications industry to push tired NBN arguments on a jaded populace, the Coalition is simply weakening its platform and handing the telecommunications portfolio to Labor on a platter.

    Australians might thank them for it, but Turnbull will be kicking himself if he wastes the opportunity to revisit the rest of his portfolio, and reframe the discussion in terms where he can actually gain solid ideological ground.

  2. Interesting article from New York Times – Min your landline vs “mobiles only” bias in the polls borne out here:

    Obama’s Lead Looks Stronger in Polls That Include Cellphones

    Although there are exceptions on either side, like the Gallup national tracking poll, for the most part Mr. Obama seems to be getting stronger results in polls that use live interviewers and that include cellphones in their samples — enough to suggest that he has a clear advantage in the race.

    In the polls that use an automated dialing method (“robopolls”) or which exclude cellphones, Mr. Obama’s bounce has been much harder to discern, and the race looks considerably closer.

    These results are consistent with some past research. Roughly one third of American households rely solely on mobile phones and do not have landlines, meaning they will simply be excluded by polls that call landlines only. Potential voters who rely on cellphones belong to more Democratic-leaning demographic groups than those which don’t, and there is reasonably strong empirical evidence that the failure to include them in polls can bias the results against Democrats, even after demographic weightings are applied.

  3. Here is another article about the NBN and the advantages it proposes over the generation.

    I hope our resident troll reads this, it will give him an overview as to what the government is doing to improve the phone network in Australia.

    Product Review: The National Broadband Network

    What is the National Broadband Network

    The NBN is an infrastructure which provides the vast majority of Australians with super-fast, ubiquitous, future-proof broadband coverage which brings with it vast benefits to business, existing infrastructure and society in general.

    It will cost $38bn with $27bn of that being a tax payer investment (i.e. the tax payers will get that money back) with the rest coming from private investors.

    At its simplest, NBN replaces Australia’s copper network with fibre optic cable. There are a few reasons for doing this:

    The current copper network is old and rotting.
    The vast performance benefits of fibre cater for the massive increase in broadband traffic that will outstrip the performance limitations of copper and wireless within the next several years whilst also providing a future-proofed infrastructure which will last in to the next century. It is also far more resilient and chemically stable than copper and costs a fraction to power and maintain. This has made it the obvious choice for copper replacement the world over.
    Replacing copper with fibre brings with it wide-reaching social benefits and huge efficiencies to existing infrastructures (health, education, power distribution etc) plus enormous potential for businesses of all sizes.
    The current copper network is overwhelmingly owned by Telstra (which is a competitor to the industry it supplies copper to) and this has created a monopoly. NBN Co (the government-owned company that will roll-out the fibre) will not compete with its customers: the carriers and ISPs that it will supply. This would resolve a long-standing problem with the structure of Australia’s telecommunications industry. All retailers should, in theory, have a level playing field.

  4. ME, the denialists will say this all baloney and say it is a conspiracy or green religion again, when the facts are there for them to read, they continue to ignore them.

  5. Morgan: 50.5-49.5 to Coalition.

    Phone poll, not the face to face which usually favours Labor.

    Too early for me to say whether it’s a trend and I’m not a big follower of polls this far out, but it is good news and a moral booster for the government.

  6. I should imagine that internal Liberal polling might be showing an even worse scenario, hence the slight state of panic starting approximately early August…

  7. In Broken Hill at the last election (state) Labor did not win a booth ( the 1st time in Sth B.H., where I live, 😯 )….. In the election just gone ( council) Labor won every booth….. extrapolate that “poll”……. tide is turning imo… 😀

  8. Link: L-NP (50.5%) CF. ALP (49.5%) – CLOSEST SINCE JANUARY 2012

    I’ve always believed that it would be close come election time next year, unlike those certain commentators here who kept going on about a wipe out and landslide for Abbott next year. One who kept going on about the polls each time they were released and has now disappeared as they turned.

    It’s why Abbott was so desperate to engineer an early election, or his minders were. Abbott’s straining to hold it together, mainly through strictly keeping to hesitating simplistic three word slogans to occupy the small space in his brain his brain farts are formed.

    Whether it was now or closer to the election Abbott sooner or later had to face serious questions and give answers that involved more than a slogan, that actually required lucid thinking and panoptic answers, and when that time came he was always going to fall flat on his face.

    It seems that time has come sooner rather than later.

  9. ME, we must give credit where it is due. The polls are running exactly as the PM predicted, up to two years ago, I believe.

    The PM has kept faith to her beliefs and no matter what, stuck to her guns.

    The problem for Abbott, it has been all exaggeration at the best, and lies at the worse.

    The PM knew she only had to keep standing, to come through.

    What Abbott is left with, all those threats have come to nought.

    Abbott is fast becoming a joke. He has never been liked. Was always seen as a joke, until he became leader, which one forgets, he manipulated all those around him to get. the job. Battlelines was his starting point.

    He has \much to live down. Much that is based on fact, not rumour and allegations.

  10. It seems there is a wall or a glass door somewhere in the world that the ‘priestly pugilist’ is fated to encounter. mm!!! 😀 *smash*

  11. Tony, ” Mumsie, you said I was gunna be the Pope or the PM” *smash*
    Mumsie, ” Anthony, go to your room…..we are so sick of you punching walls or kicking in doors because you don’t get ‘your’ own way…. and wait till your father gets home.. he’s going to be so disappointed… tsk, tsk, tsk.. all that work… all those years of ‘training’… and for WHAT… so you can become the Ambassador of Tuvalu….what would your mentor Bob say…….. ( *smash* )

  12. Speak for your self(oh you are)…. I’v just spent 5 wonderful hours at the Silver City Show…. dodgem cars…cha-cha..etc …. and all I was was a ‘hat-rack’ or ‘handbag’ with a wallet….mmm!!!! … loved it, my feet didnt 😀

  13. Oh what a lovely day.

    It could have been marginally better 😉

    But, I did get to see a cracking game of footy.

    I blame the refs (like all good losers do) 😆

    I’d pick Hawthorn to win the flag, cos they are just that good, but, the Swannies can apply pressure like the Crows did last night, and a bit more consistently than they did. Should be a great game next week.

    Could have been a better one though 😦

  14. Tom, you were lucky not to get kicked off the park. The Hawks did everything to lose that game yet you still couldn’t beat them.

    Back to the shed with ya and pray that in 2013 you get an easy draw like you did this year.

    Oh, and BTW . . . :mrgreen:

  15. Couldna be me LOVO (BURP!) 🙂

    I do feel a bit disorientated though, I’ve been trying to read comments at pollbludger. Some bozo has decided to put everything in reverse order, so that the most recent comments get put to the start of the thread, rather than the end. This not only screws up the pagination, but also means that, in order to make sense of the conversation, you have to read bottom to top, which often has you scrolling up, then back down for longer posts. Trying to find where you are at is impossible, as the page number you were on keeps getting pushed back further as more comments are added. It really is a woeful experience. Not sure who came up with the idea, but 10 minutes discussing it with somebody would have exposed the serious flaws in the plan, and saved a lot of embarrassment.

  16. There is an election due in Canberra, I wonder how many votes this independent will get
    Philip Pockock
    Outlaw gay sex, but no ‘poofter bashing’
    Marriage is for life, no extramarital sex, no remarriage until one of the partners has died.
    sexuality should not be left to individuals but regulated by the state

    Read more:

    Canberra is well known for the lunatic lunies who wish to get into the local government scene. well there is even have one elected official who supports the idea that abortion leads to breast cancer, one can only hope she isn’t ever in a health portfolio
    Oh yes, candidate Pockock is a psychologist.
    I wonder if he was born with that name or chose it

  17. Min
    Obviously not ’cause he said

    “It is not something that should just be left to individuals, in the privacy of their bedroom”

    Sounds as if Canberra may get a few more pubic attractions, oh gosh he now may get erected

  18. Cafe Whispers, take a bow !

    It seems we (or some of us) are at the leading edge of an internet phenomena: Modern Monetary Theory.

    Just spotted this article on Huffington Post by one of Bill Mitchell’s mates, Randall Wray.

    Wray talks about how ordinary folk have tackled an economic giant, the Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman on exactly the issues we’ve been discussing here the last few days, and winning the argument.

    Here at CW I’ve noticed MMT ideas being woven into the arguments of a number of our regulars as they demolished the nonsense of conservative mouthpieces.

    “Just a few short years ago, the only one I knew who blogged was Bill Mitchell. He (correctly) saw it as the future. I was highly skeptical. I wrote my first blog on
    invitation from TPM in 2008, and later joined ND2.0, and HuffPost regularly carried my writing after that. Yet, even after Stephanie Kelton created NEP, I still saw the blogosphere — or, social media — as something of a lark. Many or even most of the early comments were pretty silly, often by obsessed libertarians with almost no understanding of economics. Certainly this was no match for the New York Times as a source of reasoned analysis.”

    “But look where we are today. Take a look at the comments to Krugman’s post. I have no doubt at all that there are hundreds of MMT followers around the world who could go toe-to-toe with Krugman in a discussion of sovereign government finance. And win. And Krugman is the best that the NYT has.”

  19. Nice of you to say that Migs but I’m just a messenger helping spread the word. BTW thanks again for adding Bill Mitchell to your blogroll: as the song goes, “from little things…”

    As you yourself have commented, MMT can be a bit difficult to get your head around. Aspects of it are quite counter-intuitive. But the reality is that MMT describes the actual monetary system we have, not some mythical theoretical construct. The mythical construct is the one Hockey talks about, and it has no basis in reality.

    This can come as a bit of a shock for those indoctrinated in orthodox economics.

    Sooner (hopefully) rather than later, politicians will be ridiculed by the ‘man in the street’ for making Hockey-like utterances on the economy. That will be shortly after the MSM gets it.

    But the enlightenment of the masses will have (is having) its genesis in the blogosphere.

  20. The mythical construct the Conservatives run is about getting surpluses at all costs purely as a claim at being better economic managers. It was started by Howard in earnest and hammered so much because the unprecedented revenue rolling in allowed him to.

    It has become their and their gormless supporters be all end all of economics and the stupidity of it is they are willing to allow the country to down the gurgler in their pursuit of a meaningless brag about being a good economic manager, which like projection is the opposite of what they really are.

    Sad thing is though it works. Maybe not permanently as Howard’s supposed great economic management is now being widely and rightly being held up as a strategic failure, but it does so long enough to win elections and the spectre of Labor debt enough for Labor to lose elections as shown by the States.

    At least with the States the great economic manager tag and surplus at all cost has lost it’s effulgence with a good portion of the public. They question what they will get out of all the destruction being wrought to achieve a surplus and out of the surplus, and they don’t get sensible answers.

  21. Oh and Howard when Treasurer under Fraser thought that running deficits to prop up infrastructure and stimulate the economy during a downturn was the perfectly natural thing to do, showing this onus on surpluses above all other things is a recent construct dreamt up by Howard to hammer Beazley with as his promise of bringing the current account into surplus (debt truck) was going down the gurgler in record deficit after record deficit.

    That illustrates the whole Labor deficit attack is nothing more than a conservative mythical construct.

  22. Campbell Newman’s o’erleaping ambition to create something out of nothing does seem to have been exposed here in Qld, ME.

    Looking back in about 12 months time we might see that Newman did us all a big favour in helping dispel a myth. Pity about the thousands of sacked public sector workers who will have difficulty positively reframing their experience of Newman’s “reforms”.

    Even if one accepted that the state’s debt was becoming unsustainable (which it clearly wasn’t) how much better for everybody if Qld had surrendered bragging rights to being the lowest taxed state and raised a few of its taxes to parity with its siblings to the south.

    I think Quiggin did some calculations showing that the debt would then quickly evaporate.

    The states in a federation are of course in a different position from the federal government, being ‘users’ of the currency rather than the ‘issuer’. This is one of the important understandings of Modern Monetary Theory.

    The states do have to run their budget outcomes under some constraints whereas the fed govt can run deficits safely (viz a viz inflation) as long as there is spare capacity within the economy. And a good measure, or proxy, for under-utilised capacity is the rate of unemployment.

  23. PRIME Minister Julia Gillard was due in New York this morning to personally lobby world leaders on Australia’s bid to join the world’s most powerful decision maker – the UN Security Council.

    It is a push that has cost an estimated $40 million since 2008 and a process likened by some officials to a diplomatic version of the failed World Cup soccer bid.

    Despite officials working behind the scenes on the bid talking down Australia’s chances because of opposition from Europe, Ms Gillard is preparing an all-out charm offensive over the next four days as world leaders meet in the Big Apple.

  24. Pity about the thousands of sacked public sector workers who will have difficulty positively reframing their experience of Newman’s “reforms”

    You can now add wage cuts to that MJ. Newman has announced he will be reducing the wages of health care workers and I have no doubt this will be expanded to other public sector workers as well.

    The one area he won’t cut wages and staff in, and in fact will more than likely increase both, is his government and their personal staff plus advisers. If he follows the Kennett model, which he seems to be, but worse, then a hefty pay rise for himself and his ministers is not far away. The excuse will be, as it was for Kennett, that they are working so hard in a difficult situation to get the State back on track they deserve the hefty pay rise as compensation for that hard work.

    I don’t think the media will raise the point that slash and burn is the easiest way out and takes the least amount of work for a government whilst doing the maximum damage. Carefully working through the problems and requirements whilst bringing in efficiencies through good management takes hard work and considerable skills that could deserve a pay rise. But as was proven with Howard and the previous Liberal State governments plus the current ones, hard work is an anathema to them.

  25. I wonder how many Australians would know about our (or more accurately, Doc Evatt’s) role in establishing the United Nations.

    He was a elected President of the 3rd session General Assembly in 1948, to have the honour of proclaiming the Universal Declaration, a document that he was so instrumental in bringing to creation.

    We sure punched above our weight in those days.

    I hope the PM will find some place in her speech today to remind the UN of the role Australia played in the formation of the UN in those days following WW2.

  26. Ah, wage cuts for when things are tough !

    Wasn’t that tried in the 1930’s ?

    The Tories never learn.

    Even lab rats are smarter than that.

  27. We sure punched above our weight in those days.

    And strangely mostly when Labor is in power.

    In so many areas of innovation with environment, health and R&D being right up there, Australia was looked up to and followed. We had lauded experts and consultants around the world, out inventions and ideas were being used everywhere and then came Howard.

    R&D slashed and never bought back to what it was when he took power.

    Australia withdraws into a shell and rides on the back of the USA.

    Innovation, especially in the environment, shrivels and we become insular and backwards as infrastructure, education and skills decline.

    Australia was highly regarded and listened to in the UN. UN made a pariah by the Howard government.

    One decade destroys five decades of good work.

    The Liberal State governments have accelerated this decline to levels never seen before with Abbott promising, and he has promised this, to take us to new lows and greater insulation thus become a global pariah, and all for a very flawed far right wing ideology and being able to chest beat about how tough we are.

  28. Australia didn’t get to have one of the world’s most enviable standards of living by pursuing a low-wage regime. Yet, the “Wages are too high!” crackpots are out there, as noisy as ever, and pushing for a right wing extremist government to “rectify” our first world status.

  29. You’ve touched on another of those counter-intuitive paradoxes in macroeconomics Cuppa.

    Whenever the “wages are too high” crowd get their way, aggregate demand drops off (workers cut back on spending), inventories build up, factories cut back on hiring, and the whole thing comes to equilibrium with much higher unemployment and misery all round.

    But every time we have a hearing to re-establish a new minimum wage, the peak bodies representing small business wail and gnash their teeth, warning that any rise for the lowest paid will result in mass unemployment.

    The paradox is where it may be advantageous for one small business to cut wages but if everyone did it, it becomes counter-productive.

  30. All is wonderful in Liberal land, especially on the Central Coast of NSW that stayed with the POM last election.

    A month later it might not exactly be World War III but the political equivalent of tactical thermo-nuclear devices have been detonated.

    The Liberal Party’s top figures have been taken to the Supreme Court by other Liberals and lost. Some $300,000 in the NSW division’s election campaign money reportedly has been spent on fighting legal challenges.

    The loss meant the state council’s annual general meeting, already deferred and set for the weekend, was put off again and the change-over of branch president put off as well, possibly for more than a month.

    Senator Sinodinos, now Mr Abbott’s parliamentary secretary replacing Senator Cory Bernardi and thus an even more influential adviser, would rather be doing his job in federal politics than riding herd on state branch tensions.

  31. Have I got this correct. Cando wants to replaced the sacked PS at with contract workers on lower pay and conditions. Shorten does not agree. Queensland threatening to take back power of IR.

    Sounds like Costello has not changed one iota since the days of Dollar Sweets, that Territory company and the dogs on the waterfront.

    This should scare the daylights out of any wage worker.

  32. As state governments set about cutting enough public servants to populate a small city, evidence from Australia’s biggest school infrastructure project shows that such cuts could cost taxpayers more than they save. Despite the controversy it aroused at the time, the real lessons of the Building the Education Revolution scheme have been largely neglected, and are now gathering dust.
    The Centre for Policy Development have……….

    …………The slide in public-works-related expertise has halted during the last decade, and some government departments have even started to take modest steps to rebuild their skills base after realising that they were unable to achieve value for money on infrastructure projects.
    But now many state governments are embarking on a new round of public service cuts. Between them, the governments of Victoria, NSW, Queensland and Western Australia are planning to cut tens of thousands of public servants – enough people to populate a small Australian city. There is a danger that the absence of some of those staff members from the ranks of the public service could cost us more money than it saves.
    It is instructive to contrast the reaction to the two key ingredients for success identified by the BER Taskforce. The taskforce concluded that successful education authorities used their existing knowhow to act as an informed buyer, and empowered school principals and managing architects. The latter ingredient for success was enthusiastically embraced as a part of a broader push to devolve more responsibility to principals in a number of states, particularly NSW. The first key to success – a strong pool of public works expertise – has barely garnered any interest at all.
    A push towards ”small government” might make for a neat-looking state budget this year, but successive crash diets will leave states ill-equipped to sprint when they need to.
    If we’d looked more carefully at the BER evidence, we’d already be well on the way to understanding the importance of public sector expertise.

    Read more:

  33. As state governments set about cutting enough public servants to populate a small city, evidence from Australia’s biggest school infrastructure project shows that such cuts could cost taxpayers more than they save. Despite the controversy it aroused at the time, the real lessons of the Building the Education Revolution scheme have been largely neglected, and are now gathering dust.
    The Centre for Policy Development ha

    Read more:

  34. A very good article on the Carbon Price from Independent Australia

    >blockquote>Why the carbon price has not caused inflation

    SOME PEOPLE might say, worrying about the future is all very well, but the future is far away — yet implementing a carbon tax will increase the cost of living for Australians now, in the immediate future, as soon as it comes in. And, in its zealously effective scaremongering, the Coalition has greatly encouraged this perception. As a former accountant, and one that has worked in the mining industry, I feel assured that a carbon tax – especially one set at the relatively modest level of between $20-$30 a tonne that has been widely mooted by the Government as being the likely entry-point – will have negligible or no impact on the cost of living of ordinary Australians, especially given the tax breaks the Government has presaged.

    Would like to see the denialists have to say about this.

  35. L-NP WITH SMALL LEAD: L-NP (52%) CF. ALP (48%)

    Morgan face to face figures with the question of country heading in the right direction.

    My intuition is that it will be a close election next year and would not be surprised at another minority government. If there is a minority government it won’t be an Abbott one as there are no minority parties or indies who would work with him.

  36. Would like to see the denialists have to say about this.

    I’ll give it a go

    “He called it a tax, He called it a tax!” 😉

  37. Bacchus. Koels migrate down from Indonesia in the summer so that one is very early.

    They are a member of the Cuckoo family so displace other birds young and don’t raise their own.

    The worse thing is the males take up residence in a territory and start a long fairly melodic but loud call that quickly becomes annoying. They keep calling, day and night, but especially at night, until they attract a female and have their way with it. That would be great if that were the end of it, but after the few seconds of mating and the female flies off the male again starts calling to attract more females, and this goes on through summer.

    Even worse if you get an immature male Koel take up residence near your place as they haven’t got the mating call off pat so spend a lot of time practicing and their sound can be far more annoying than that of an adult male.

    I have a fairly large reserve backing onto my house and every summer at least one Koel within good earshot takes up residence in the trees there. Worse of the lot is if two or three male Koels stake out territories all within earshot of your place as they will attempt to out call each other nearly 24 hours a day for weeks.

  38. I’m a bit further north than you ME – about 840 km as the crow flies.

    The one this morning was unusual because you don’t often see the female. She was on the ground, getting insects out of our orange tree – they’re usually fairly high up in treetops…

    Country of Origin

    The birds originally spread from India, however the birds that migrate to Australia are likely to be coming from Papua New Guinea.


    Male birds chase females in the breeding season, which takes place from September to February. The Koel will use the active nests of other small birds, including the nests of Figbirds (Sphecotheres viridis), Noisy Friarbirds (Philemon corniculatus ) and Magpie -larks (Grallina cyanoleuca ). The birds lay their one large, pink-cream, spotty egg and remove one of the host’s eggs. The Koel egg hatches earlier than the other eggs and then pushes all the other eggs out of nest, taking all the food from the foster parents. The young birds leave the nest after 35 days, then perching on a nearby branch and continuing to demand food from its smaller foster parents.

    Nasty bushwackin’ animals!

    As you say, the male makes it’s very annoying call, endlessly, driving everyone crazy 🙂

  39. Sorry Papua New Guinea not Indonesia.

    They don’t normally infest (sic) the reserve around me until mid to late October but have been coming earlier each year.

    I blame global warming.

    I’ve never seen a female but have seen the males.

  40. Probably don’t normally notice the females because they don’t make that constant annoying call to attract attention to themselves. The one this morning is only the second female I’ve seen, and it was amazing because I could get such a good look at her, being on the ground about 15m away from me.

  41. Abbott at a swimming pool in Qld and banging on about carbon tax. “The owners have just got their electricity bill and have calculated that each swimmer will have to pay an extra 10 cents. Yes 10 cents, every person coming through the turnstile will have to put an extra 10 cents in the piggy bank”

    Sorry but none of the reporters burst out laughing at that big point about the 10 cents that broke the piggy bank.

  42. The public pool I use raised its price by 20 cents on July 1st. They explained it as a normal annual price rise to cover inflation. They didn’t mention the “carbon tax,” and that was wise of them, otherwise they would have gotten a political argument from me over their use of the term “tax” and how their poor choice of words was playing into the hands of the Opposition. Then I would have had a blast at Abbott. Believe me, public pool employees do not want political arguments with their customers.

  43. silkworm
    i wonder if any of the journalists at the Abbott stunt will look into the real costs of that particular swimming pool and track their annual entry fees.

  44. That reminds me of the spotted drongo, native to Australia and a more annoying sound you cannot imagine. During mating season that blankety-blank bird does not draw breath with it’s incessant whoop-whoop-whoop. The only more annoying sound that I can recall were the bongo players at a property up the back when I was living at Billinudgel.

  45. From Sue’s link: The Liberals felt they effectively delegated core policy to a “socialist agrarian”.

    I don’t follow. Who is being called a “socialist agrarian.” Is it Deathstare? That would be awesome!

  46. The lessee to Yeronga pool is Shelley Douyere, back in 2008 she was pleased that the council had refurbished the 50 metre pool and was hoping similar work to the 25 metre pool, with heating etc. Well we know it was done as that is part of the currrent advertising.

    I wonder if the owners (the council?) have solar panels for their heating. Is this stunt by Abbott supported the the council?

  47. I would think that the Liberal machine picked out an Abbott-sympathetic pool operator. Most pool operators would not want to be seen to be choosing a political side.

  48. “The demise of social democratic parties – they are all neo-liberals now”

    Bill Mitchell tells the Labor Party (and Lindsay Tanner) some home truths.

    It’s not pleasant reading, but something we-of-the-Left should think about.

    Philosophically, it’s impossible for the conservative side of politics to do an about face, and suddenly embrace a “rational”, as opposed to an ideology driven, economics, but less difficult for Labor, although not easy. It would have to withstand a firestorm of ridicule from conservative quarters, but not perhaps from the electorate. There could even be some qualified support from orthodox economists.

    There seems broad agreement from commentators now that the pursuit of the surplus is purely “political”. We just need Swanny to slip on a banana skin.

    “There is no virtue in driving the economy towards recession, which forces the central bank to lower rates, and then saying – see our fiscal policy is good because it results in lower interest rates. Meanwhile unemployment and underemployment has risen. That is the moronic position that Lindsay Tanner represented vigorously during his time as Minister of Finance.”

    “He also failed to understand that in trying to achieve a budget surplus at a time when the economy is slowing is a self-defeating goal. The reality is always that the automatic stabilisers (that is, the plunging tax revenue growth) will likely see the budget in deficit anyway and there will be nothing positive to show for it.”

  49. ‘And naturally, the trolls that reside beneath the bridge that connects stupidity with hatefulness can’t stay away. Despite the fact that this woman is still missing and that we have found no trace of her yet but in the dark recesses of our imaginations, some folk are still relishing the opportunity to remind women that if they don’t want anything bad to happen to them, they should be more careful about drinking/staying out late/talking to strangers who aren’t their husbands/wearing suggestive clothing/walking while female/having a vagina in the first place.’

    Clementine Ford (SMH)

  50. The research found:
    One in four people aged between 18 and 30 have recently done cash-in-hand work.
    Being off-the-books impacts on young people receiving:
    – penalty rates
    – superannuation
    – annual leave
    – sick leave
    – job and or skills training.
    34 per cent of cash-in-hand workers did so for less than three months.
    14 per cent did so for more than two years….

  51. What is sad, that workers think they are better off with cash in hand.

    One student who did not want to be named says he likes cash-in-hand because he does not want to worry about going over the tax-free threshold and losing part of his Youth Allowance.

    “Not having to declare for tax reasons is really helpful, because it helps you work when you want to… it’s good for flexibility,” he said.

    The Australia Institute’s executive director, Dr Richard Dennis, says there is a common misconception among young people about how much tax they will have to pay.

    “There’s a big tax free threshold and most students probably don’t go past that… and then you’re only paying 15 per cent tax on money over that threshold.”.

  52. Malcolm Turnbull briefed on Chinese NBN ban
    LIBERAL frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull was briefed by ASIO on the national security risks posed by the Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei, despite claiming he was “not privy” to the government’s security intelligence advice about the controversial company.

    Turnbull caught out in another direct lie over the NBN. Was on ABC Radio this morning. Only got the gist of the story but apparently Turnbull had made claims that he had never been briefed on the security aspects of the Chinese State owned Huawei security implications and ASIO have come out and stated he was briefed.

    Why do the Liberals lie about everything, even those you think have a little integrity like Turnbull?

  53. Mobius, a dead link re above so here is another one..

    Also from the article..mind you, it’s very telling that the oo is starting to follow through with negative stories about the opposition.. Who is in trouble? The opposition or is it Abbott, that there have been quite a number of negative stories about Malcolm recently…

    However, The Australian can reveal that Mr Turnbull was briefed by ASIO in Canberra on May 9 about the security risks posed by having the Chinese company involved in the NBN. Deputy Opposition Leader and foreign affairs spokeswoman Julie Bishop also attended the ASIO briefing.

    This means Mr Turnbull made his pledge to review the ban on Huawei knowing this would place the Coalition at odds with the views of Australia’s domestic spy agency.

  54. The federal government has settled its case with James Ashby, the staffer who had sued it and Speaker Peter Slipper over sexual harassment claims.

    However, the case against Mr Slipper will continue in the Federal Court.

    Mr Ashby was suing both Mr Slipper and the commonwealth, claiming Mr Slipper made unwelcome advances and sent him explicit, sexually suggestive text messages.

    Mr Slipper and the commonwealth were seeking to have the action thrown out of court, claiming Mr Ashby’s case was vexatious and designed to vilify Mr Slipper and destroy or damage his reputation.

    AAP understands the commonwealth has settled its part of the case with Mr Ashby, but details of the settlement are not yet known.

    The matter is due to return to court on Tuesday….

  55. US federal judge has ordered the man behind an anti-Islamic video that has inflamed Muslims worldwide to be detained because he is a flight risk.

    US Central District Chief Magistrate Judge Suzanne Segal ordered Nakoula Basseley Nakoula be held on Thursday afternoon, after authorities said he violated terms of his probation.

    Protests have erupted around the world over a 14-minute trailer for the film Innocence of Muslims, which depicts Mohammed as a womaniser, religious fraud and child molester.

    Nakoula, 55, was convicted in 2010 for federal bank fraud charges and sentenced to 21 months in prison.

    Under terms of his probation, he was not allowed to use computers or the internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.

    Nakoula was arrested on Thursday after federal probation officials determined he violated the terms of his supervised release, said Thomas Mrozek US Attorney’s spokesman in Los Angeles.

    A US District Court hearing scheduled for Nakoula on Thursday afternoon was closed to media and the public..

  56. Hunt also pointed out, in relation to our question about problems with past grant tendering programs, that the Coalition’s Direct Action Emissions Reduction Fund would operate as:
    “A pure reverse auction. We will buy the lowest cost per tonne of CO2 whether it comes from waste coal mine gas or landfill gas clean up, from land sector abatement, energy efficiency or the clean-up rather than closure of power stations.”
    This is quite interesting, because it appears to represent somewhat of a change from the Coalition’s 2010 election platform.
    In the 2010 Direct Action Plan it says they would call for tenders, and reverse auctions aren’t mentioned. In addition the strict focus on cost per tonne of CO2, irrespective of source, represents a more straightforward approach than outlined in the 2010 plan which stated:…

  57. A spokesman for Mr Ashby said the commonwealth had offered $50,000 and an “improved education program for staff in relation to issues of bullying and harassment and to offer specific training for MPs and senators in relation to sexual harassment”.

    The claim had been settled on “favourable grounds”, the spokesman said in statement.

    “The federal government has retreated from its much publicised allegations that the case brought by James Ashby is an abuse of process – withdrawing its abuse case in full and settling its case,” he said.

    Mr Ashby is still pursuing Mr Slipper over allegations of sexual harassment and that case is listed for an interlocutory hearing on October 2.

    The Speaker now faces the personal legal action without commonwealth support.

    The AGS said the settlement avoided the “very significant” legal expenses of going to trial.

    Mr Ashby’s spokesman said the case had never been about money but rather to stop Mr Slipper’s conduct against Mr Ashby and prevent it happening to other parliamentary staff in the future.,,,,,,,

  58. GINA Rinehart’s Hancock Prospecting has questioned the “curious” timing of a legal push from the family of her father’s former business partner that could see a multi-billion-dollar piece of her fortune seized.

    Wright Prospecting, the private vehicle owned by the descendants of Lang Hancock’s former business partner Peter Wright, this week launched a legal bid to win a share of assets including the Hope Downs 4 iron ore project…..

  59. I love this one. 🙂

    Mr Hunt said he had received a deluge of letters from residents worried about the impact mining would have on the last Tasmanian tigers.

    “All the letters refer to the health and wellbeing of the last healthy Tasmanian tigers in the region,” he wrote. “Can you advise the steps the government is taking to ensure a fair and reasonable balance is being struck between industry and the environment?”

  60. ‘In any case, climate scientists have long expected that the Arctic would warm up faster than the Antarctic.’


  61. But there remain many cases where a leader’s pledges, though given lucidly and sincerely, cannot stand. This was behind John Howard’s defence of political somersaults, in 1998.
    ”There is absolutely nothing wrong … with stating a position on something, honouring that during the lifetime of the term … and then, if you alter your position and you go to the public again with the altered position, having a right to implement it after that election.” At first, this seems reasonable. Politicians are not alone in this mismatch between rhetoric and reality. Most employees in private industry also have to work with imperfect reality: the world changes, and so do alliances and moods.

    Read more:

  62. Mobius, just look at this sentence…it’s the only mention of the possibility that what is happening might be natural. Pathetic.

    ‘Still another factor is purely natural climate variation, which is still happening even though man-made global warming has a growing influence on every aspect of the Earth’s climate system with every passing decade.’

  63. el gordo. guffaw, and predicable, and as usual you are wrong.

    Is it hard going through life being so wrong on nearly everything?

  64. Of the 11 prime ministers since Robert Menzies, how many first came to office in the traditional way, by winning a federal election?

    The majority or a minority?

    The answer is four – just four of the 11 since Menzies retired on Australia Day in 1966.

    They were Gough Whitlam in 1972, Bob Hawke in 1983, John Howard in 1996 and Kevin Rudd in 2007.

    Of the rest, six of them – Harold Holt, John McEwen, John Gorton, Billy McMahon, Paul Keating and Julia Gillard – first made it to the Lodge either by winning a party room ballot or securing the endorsement of the party room between elections.

    A seventh – Malcolm Fraser – was uniquely elevated by the Governor General…

  65. The idea – in fact the reality – that the electorate simply chooses local members and the parties themselves chose the leaders is something that seems to be lost on so many, particularly as election campaigns are increasingly built around personalities.

    A similar sentiment was on display during the failed push for a republic. The overwhelming sentiment was that if the system had to change, then the people wanted a say; they wanted a directly elected president and not one appointed by the parliament.

    It is that fiercely held notion that in part explains why the sacking of Kevin Rudd in 2010 refuses to go away; why, two years after the event, it can be revived as front page news at the drop of a hat.

    None of the other changes provoked the same reactions, apart from the dismissal in 1975. That is because most are not comparable..

  66. none of the current high performing education systems in the OECD had achieved their place using the policies Australia currently has in place.

    ”I’m saying this based on global evidence, this is not a political opinion,” Dr Sahlberg said.

    ”If the goal is to be in the top five I think it requires rethinking some of the fundamental policies and reforms as well here in Australia.”

    Finland, which does not allow schools to charge fees or force its students to sit standardised tests, has ranked at or near the top of international tests of 15-year-olds since they were first conducted by the OECD in 2000.

    The Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which is held every three years, compares the results of students from different countries in maths, science and reading.

    In 2009, Australian students scored above the OECD average in each of the subjects, finishing ninth in reading, 10th in science and 15th in maths.

    However Australia was one of only five countries, and the only high-performing

    nation, to record a decline since the previous test in 2006.

    Dr Sahlberg said the notion of school choice was central in Australia, with Catholic, independent and state schools competing in the marketplace for students. There was an emphasis on transparency and accountability, with parents able to compare schools’ performance in standardised NAPLAN tests, the results of which are published on the My School website.

    If some parents ”walk with their feet” and pull their children out of poor performing schools, ”that is exactly what the system is designed to do”, the former prime minister, Kevin Rudd, said of making schools publicly report their results.

    But Dr Sahlberg said he didn’t believe you could have both school choice and equity.

    ”You can allow parents to choose from different types of schools or … you can try to increase equity.”

    He said a focus on equity meant ensuring school systems overcame inequalities such as poverty and parental unemployment.

    In Finland, all schools are fully subsidised by the government. No school is allowed to charge fees and almost all Finnish students attend their local school.

    ”The four PISA studies so far have found performance differences between Finnish schools … has been very, very small which indicates that parents don’t really need to be concerned where a good school is because, statistically at least, all schools are good schools.”

    By contrast, children at schools serving the poorest families in Australia are about two years behind their peers in advantaged state schools, according to Melbourne University professor Richard Teese.

    In a submission to the Gonski review into school funding, Professor Teese says schools that enrol mainly children from the poorest families in Australia are almost uniquely public schools.

    ”Despite decades of funding, very few non-government schools have such an equity profile,” he wrote. ”Choice has not enlarged the educational opportunities of the poor.”

    Australia spends a higher proportion of public money on private schools than other developed countries except Chile and Belgium, according to an OECD report released this month.

    The Federal Government is seeking to address disadvantage by introducing a needs-based school funding model………..

    None of the leaders have or fund a private system

  67. USA, doing nothing. Not up to now. Will change if president changes. Romney even says no to less smog. All regulations to go. Profits must come first. In fact that is so in everything he promotes. Profits come before people or environment.

    The United States is in the midst of significant changes in our energy outlook. We are producing and burning more natural gas for electricity, while reducing coal use. Domestic oil production is at a 15-year high while oil imports are at a 15-year low. Renewable electricity doubled over the past four years, while worldwide carbon pollution and the impacts of climate change grow. The next president will face these and other serious challenges posed by a changing energy world.
    President Barack Obama’s first term featured the adoption of essential toxic and carbon pollution reduction measures to protect public health. In addition, he modernized fuel-economy standards for the first time in two decades, which also helped the auto industry; invested in energy efficiency and renewable electricity; and created tens of thousands of jobs.
    Gov. Mitt Romney’s energy agenda couldn’t be more different. He would undo new safeguards from mercury, carcinogens, soot, and smog from industrial sources. He opposes the improved fuel-economy standards, and would continue and expand tax breaks for big oil companies, while openly disparaging clean energy and investments in wind power.
    In short, there are stark differences between the two presidential candidates that must be discussed on October 3 so Americans have a clear view of the energy path each candidate would lead us down………

  68. The right must be the same world wide. They are already claiming in the USA, they were robbed. Everyone is out to get them. Maybe it could be that they are wrong in their belief they are born to rule.

    People in the states are beginning to say, being a successful business,man does not a president make. You need someone that knows how the economy works.

    The lies keep coming. Same as here.

    onservative activist circles are abuzz with a new conspiracy theory: Polls showing President Obama with a growing lead over Mitt Romney are deliberately being skewed by the Liberal Mainstream Media so Republicans will be disheartened and stay home on Election Day.
    This is denial and self-delusion but not of the harmless kind. It’s a false narrative that encourages the Republican Party to take the wrong lessons from this election, no matter the outcome……..

    Those dastardly liberals in the media — and, apparently, in most of the major polling organizations — must have decided to give this false picture of the race to discourage conservatives and make them resigned to an Obama victory…….

    n anti-Obama Web site called ­ has reweighted a number of recent polls and concluded that Romney actually has a lead of nearly eight points.
    So why is Romney acting like a man who’s behind rather than comfortably ahead? Because he’s smart enough to know that the conspiracy theory is nuts………

  69. Pointman’s view on ‘the faith.’

    ‘The prominenti of the alarmists, in contrast and surprisingly, fall into a very small number of quite uniform types. That in itself is not unusual, but it’s more commonly found in the footsoldiers of a movement, rather than the leadership cadre.

    ‘I believe the reason for this uniformity, is that their shared belief in a coming Armageddon, corresponds very closely to a new religion, and like all young religions, it’s essentially fundamentalist.

    ‘While all formal religions have doctrinal viewpoints on controversial issues, the mark of a fundamentalist one, is an absolute insistence on a complete adherence to each and every one of its doctrines. Any sort of dissent, is simply not tolerated.’

  70. Ah the utterly stupid climate change science proffered as a religion, an absolute sure sign the deniers have lost the argument, are totally wrong and have nothing left to offer. So fuck off.

  71. It is interesting that, while the denialists keep yelling that the scientists are of the ‘religion’, it is in fact the denialists who display the characteristics of the religious: namely the fervor (how many breathless articles has grodo pasted here, constantly and repeatedly) and faith (lot’s of ‘could be, might be’, but no actual evidence to support the arguments) hopeful to the end that the worldwide ‘conspiracy’ will be exposed (even though, almost daily, denialist conspiracies are exposed for what they are)

  72. el gordo, religion is not based on facts but faith.

    Man made climate change by increased carbon emissions is based on facts that 97% of the worlds scientist in the field support. Faith does not come into it.

    No manner of lies or twisting words can change this fact.

    I am sorry, as you base so much faith in the 3% and those who choose to mislead.

  73. They say more than they believe. They say they have been preparing for over ten years. They say things have to be done.

    Most firms, including those who emit large quantities of carbon, have been working towards cleaner manufacturing for over a decade.

    They have made the investments need to be a cleaner industry, now and into the future.

    In other words, they have been investing in clean operations, to avoid any cost on carbon, that is inevitable.

    The only ones that do not see this, is the deniers and the Opposition. Most of the world have also been moving in the same direction, including the US and Canada. Abliet not always on a national basis, but within their state systems.

  74. ‘…there would continue to be demand for coal even under the International Energy Agency’s most aggressive scenarios for action on climate change.’

    I mentioned the other day how India, China and Germany are set to hugely increase their coal fired power capacity. Facing this commercial reality, surely its time to recognise that Australia’s tax on CO2 is misguided.

    ‘…deniers have lost the argument, are totally wrong and have nothing left to offer. So fuck off.’

    ‘Any sort of dissent, is simply not tolerated,’ says Pointman. Can’t disagree with that.

  75. ‘The only place anthropogenic global warming definitely exists is in climate models. They must be FORCED by greenhouse gases in order to make the simulated oceans and atmosphere warm. The instrument temperature record shows the oceans and surface temperatures have warmed, but those records cannot be used to prove manmade global warming exists.

    ‘On the other hand, as I have been showing for more that 3 ½ years, the instrument temperature record can be used to show that most if not all of the warming was caused by natural variables, and as a result, the observational data can be used to invalidate the climate models. If you’re not familiar with my work, refer to my recent post titled A Blog Memo to Kevin Trenberth – NCAR.’

    Bob Tisdale

  76. Also, el gordo, I no longer take anything you say with a grain of salt.

    Just the same thing over and over over, always disputed by experts.

    That is my opinion.

  77. You do know where Tisdale’s statement shows AGW is right don’t you el gordo?

    Of course you don’t.

    As usual and trolling again you just throw in paragraphs with no links or sources so as to put them out of context and only posted to get a reaction or as a diversion when you’ve been proved wrong, again.

    Boorish and wrong describes you to a tee.

  78. @eg

    ‘The only place anthropogenic global warming definitely exists is in climate models.

    the models in question have been developed as a response to observations made in many fields, as you can see from following the link. 😆

    why keep insulting us with this bullshit?

    if tisdale has done as you claim, he’ll be in line for a well deserved nobel prize in several disciplines, at least, and with widespread acclamation too. maybe he too suffers from the Dunning Kruger effect ? or yet another exponent of “blogscience” perhaps, as i remain unable to find anything (in terms of published and peer reviewed) from him but a few blog posts, and links to the sceptic denialist blogger Watts.

    Mo, has it right.

    and it isn’t polite to spout bullshit continuously, you know..

  79. Another group of Sri Lankan asylum seekers has asked to be sent home, rather than risk Australia sending them to an offshore processing facility.

    Immigration Minister Chris Bowen says the group consists of 28 men who arrived both before and after the new processing arrangements for Nauru and Manus Island were announced in August.

    He says the men have come from detention centres on Nauru, Christmas Island, as well as mainland facilities including Villawood and Northam.

    The men are on a flight to Colombo that departed Christmas Island this morning.

    Earlier this month another group of Sri Lankan asylum seekers opted to head home rather than be sent to Nauru.

    Meanwhile the Department of Immigration has confirmed that 52 boats and nearly 3,200 passengers have been intercepted since the new processing arrangements came into force.

    It has also confirmed more than 300 asylum seekers were intercepted from three boats in Australian waters yesterday.

    A total of 150 asylum seekers have now been taken to Nauru under the new policy..

  80. It appears that many do not believe that wireless is enough. Maybe NBNco should come to the assistance of these remote populations.

    In remote south-western Queensland, two councils are planning to build their own high speed internet network.

    The Barcoo and Diamantina Shires are too isolated to get high speed fibre optic cable through the Government’s National Broadband Network.

    As part of the NBN, the region will have access to high speed satellite services, which could increase data speeds by up to 12 times.

    But Bruce Scott, the former mayor of Barcoo Shire, says a fibre optic network is the only way the region can keep up as technology advances.

    “There is no fibre within 400 kilometres of Birdsville, 300 kilometres of Windorah and 200 kilometres of Bedourie, so it’s an enormous void,” he told Saturday AM.

    “The national information superhighway is so critically important and if we’ve got a second rate service coming into these communities what reason is there for people to stay?

    “What reason is there for people to own and operate the service station, to be a teacher in the school?”

    And so the Barcoo Shire and the neighbouring Diamantina Shire are going it alone.

    They are planning to roll out 700 kilometres of optic fibre between five of the region’s towns, including the popular tourism destination Birdsville, to link the region to the national network.

    The project is expected to cost about $22 million.

    AUDIO: Listen to the story (AM)
    The councils say they can afford to put $6 million towards the project, but want money from the Federal and State Governments to help cover the rest.

    “I’ve had very positive responses from the Queensland Government. Certainly no promises, we all know the Queensland Government has got a very, very tight budget,” Mr Scott said.

    The remote shires are hoping the Federal Government’s regional development fund will cover 50 per cent of the project’s costs.

    But telecommunications analyst Mark McDonnell says it’s unlikely the Government will approve funding if a high speed satellite service is already planned.

    “The NBN Co is prosecuting a national program for deployment,” he said.

    “It is the central agency involved and, while I can sympathise with people wanting to act independently and in the way telecommu

    Some local councils in other states and territories are also investigating how to get access to the fibre optic network.

  81. Says it all.

    Queensland Liberal National Party Senator Barnaby Joyce says the Diamantina and Barcoo Shires deserve support to build their fibre optic network.

    “If you’re waiting for the people to pay for it, they won’t get it,” he said.

    “And if you say, ‘oh well, that’s fair enough, we’ll just let them linger in the 19th Century’, well, you know, that’s not an appropriate answer.

    “We’ve got to make sure that we do what’s in our power to bring the service out to them.”

  82. PS

    The Federal Government’s regional development fund is currently on hold, but the Government says another three rounds of funding will be rolled out before the next election.

  83., raises a interesting question. Is the gap between the two major parties really that wide.

    Has it frustrated you that parliamentarians from the two major parties cannot seem to agree on much at all? Is this due simply to cussedness, an intention to disagree on virtually everything, or is there a more deep-seated reason?

    I believe in reality, that there is more they have or should have in common, than that which divides.

    What is not up for dispute, is the difference between the PM and Mr. Abbott. They appear to share nothing in common.

    One is a builder, the other loves to destroy and demolish.

  84. Thanks for the history lesson pet… the D and K link is childish and old hat. I study the science as a layman, just like Mobius.

    Its alright for him to put up a link of dubious quality and get away with it. He knows SFA about the science and leans heavily on the ‘97% of scientists’ to give him strength. Which gives the fundamentalist foot soldiers the opportunity to throw D-K in my direction.


  85. Well most of us do rely on the experts, especially when 97% agree for getting the right information.

    One does not have to understand the science, but one does need a pretty good bullshit antennae.

    Most here have taken the time to look at the science and get themselves some basic understanding of what is being proposed and understanding of what is occurring.

    That is not beyond most. The intricate details might, but that is not necessary in getting an overview.

    Why is it so important for us to agree with you. I am quite happy for you to think whatever you like. It makes no difference to me either way.

    As this has been discussed for decades, it is likely most are on the right track.

  86. From some of the achievements of this government. The links are on the site for all.

    It’s policies are detailed under several headings:
    Creating jobs and skills in Australia
    Investing in a creative Australia
    Science for Australia’s future
    Advancing Australia’s Interests Internationally
    A Good International Citizen
    Labor’s plan for all small business
    Increasing your superannuation to 12 %
    My Super
    Protecting Workers’ Entitlements
    National Trade Cadetships
    Tax plan for our future
    Mineral Resource Rent Tax
    Connecting Renewables
    Building Better Regional Cities
    Reward for Early Action
    Strengthening Australia
    Cleaner Power Stations
    National Broadband Network
    Fairer Simpler Banking
    Carbon farming initiative
    A secure and fair Australia

    There is not room for them here in detail, and anyway you have heard them all. There are linked for reference.

  87. I suggest that the trolls might learn something if they gave us a miss and look at

    In short, this comparison of policies on education and the economy, serves to illustrate that the ideologies behind these aspects of policy starkly differ between Labor and the Coalition, and that it is the ideology that drives the vigorous debate between the parties rather than the policy details. Ideologies are deep seated and invite contention and division. There could scarcely be more profound differences than those that exist on economics between the two parties. While both want a strong and growing economy and higher productivity, with one party focused on equity, the redistribution of wealth, and the provision of social services, and the other on boosting the wealthy at the inevitable expense of the less wealthy, it should not surprise us that ideological agreement between them is impossible. We saw this starkly exhibited on this week’s Q&A when Tanya Plibersek and Kelly O’Dwyer had a sharp clash, not on economic policy, but on ideology.

    Of course that will not happen. They know the truth as we do, but are only interested in spreading mis-information.

  88. We ought not be surprised that because there is so much disagreement on ideological grounds, agreement on policy details is impossible. It seems that as their ideologies can never meet, as compromise of these fundamental principles is unattainable, dissent is inevitable.

    What do you think?

    I ask the same of our readers here.

  89. Michael Mann (a high priest of the movement) did a paper on the LIA and convinced me that we have already reached the tipping point.

    Click to access littleiceage.pdf

    The Guardian article further up the thread, Arctic ice melt leads to regional cooling, should be seen in conjunction.

  90. ‘The Little Ice Age may have been more significant in terms of increased variability of the climate, rather than changes in the average climate itself.’

    Michael Mann

  91. ‘Why is it so important for us to agree with you. I am quite happy for you to think whatever you like. It makes no difference to me either way.’

    Don’t take it personally, its not about you. My global cooling is more dangerous than your global warming and there is a sense of urgency attached.

  92. Still does not answer my question. Why is it important for anyone to agree with you. As for faith, have no time for it, in any circumstances. Like to go with the strength.

    Global cooling appears to be in your imagination.

  93. “disagreement on ideological grounds, agreement on policy details is impossible.”
    I think that no matter what their differences are, they have still got a country to run. If one party has the role of running the Parliment, the other should voice their ideological view in reference to policies and try to make amendments if they have problems with aspects of ‘the’ policy……But do we see that from this opposition…. NO

  94. “At least you have faith.” No I don’t. How do you get through life?

    “My global cooling is more dangerous than your global warming.” So much in that utterly idiotic statement it’s hard to know where to begin.

    First I’ll make the statement. It’s not YOUR global cooling and it’s not OUR global warming. For stuff sake. I guess the globe warming because of mankind does belong to everyone in a way, but as we’re discussing the science, it’s not anyone’s, it’s just the science.

    .“…and there is a sense of urgency attached.” So now you have changed position yet again, and for the umpteenth time, I’ve lost count.

    You’ve gone from cooling to warming and back again so many times now it’s impossible to keep track. Not long ago you said it was cooling but it was a long ways off after the current natural warming turned around, but now you are saying it’s urgent.

    So just what timeframe is there for this urgent cooling?

    What is causing this urgent cooling? Some science from credited climate scientists and references would be nice for once.

    Is that your final position on this now, it’s an urgent cooling that belongs to you, or are you going back to warming sometime again? You can take you pick of the “natural” causes you have cycled through or maybe something new next time?

    Standby for diversion….

  95. Natural variables rule…. and as we slip into another LIA the mid latitudes should experience extreme weather.

    ‘What is causing this urgent cooling?’

    The root cause of warming or cooling is our star, but as you can appreciate there is a lag in the system. I don’t expect you to accept this theory, so I won’t be supplying links…you’ll just have to take my word for it.

    Cooling is definitely my bag.

  96. What a joke el gordo. You haven’t a clue and just make it up.

    Take your word for it when you don’t even know what your word is, no way.

  97. and yes, eg . you demonstrate the reality of The Dunning Kruger effect , and its application to your fantasies – why is it childish to point that out? Certainly, i would agree that it’s pretty childish of you to continually reiterate the same bullshit which has been comprehensively refuted, and seen you “self banned” 😆 in other places.

    that’s a bit like the plaintive cry of the trolls of “ad hom”, whenever their lies are pointed out.

    what you don’t appear to understand, is that opinions are cheap, everyone has one, but if you wish to be taken seriously, you have to follow the data – hence science, which of the available means of explaining how things work, has led to the technological fruits, and deep understanding of living and other mechanisms which affect our existence, ignorance, much less of the wilful variety is clearly stupid, and maladaptive in the case of agw

    what’s your plan for when reality demonstrates your foolishness in terms even you can’t ignore ?

    i value the future for myself, my children and grandchildren, and our civilisation, which is why i informed myself of the nature of agw, and its probable effects.

    you and your fellow denialist trolls directly threaten the future of all of these in your love affair with wilful ignorance,

  98. ‘and seen you “self banned” in other places.’

    I only self banned here after the tax was introduced, but have returned to mop up.

    At the Trash the blogmaster has built me a comfy shed out the back and recently at Deltoid they snipped all the contrarians ruthlessly, so I won’t be going back.

    Deltoid is exactly how they want it, half a dozen grumpy old me agreeing with one another, with only an occasional interruption by the resident troll (Karen) to amuse them.

  99. Deltoid is a bunch of people with so much knowledge they made you look like the unknowledgeable troll you were. That’s the truth of it.

    So I guess that makes you wrong again.

  100. History curriculum will increase ignorance

    JOHN Howard is right about the unbalanced and bizarre nature of the new national school history curriculum (“Bizarre history curriculum studies Kylie not capitalism”, 28/9).

    I have taught the products of the existing system for 20 years and their historical ignorance is appalling. The new curriculum will only make this much worse.

    Cannot see how the new curriculum can be any worse. We know from these sites, and comments made, most Australians have no idea of their own history.

    Yes, we can talk about wars, especially those of the mother country, even recite all their kings. According to Howard, that is more important than learning about our own.

    Where the Indigenous fit in, is also time wasting and not relevant.

    Yes, it is time, we focus on OUR history and what makes us what we are.

    A little political history would not go amiss.


  101. ‘…they made you look like the unknowledgeable troll you were. That’s the truth of it.’

    If that was true, Lambert wouldn’t have snipped us.

    Nope, they are all brain dead.

  102. Wrong again el gordo. Going through life being wrong all the time.

    If they are so brain dead how about you debate them on their own level?

    Cue lame excuse or inane remark.

  103. ‘…debate them on their own level?’

    I was lucky in that regard… 97% of them are kitchen table scientists, but they are steeped in the faith and refuse to grasp reality.

  104. Cue lame excuse or inane remark……hi, my name is LOVO and I’s just wanna say ‘dis …… oops sorry……… your probs talking about someone less depricate’n 😀 ……….. funny how eg pops in and puts up a CC for/against… “Standby for diversion”…..when the convo hits ‘home’ against/about those self-serving ..a.k.a. LNP.. and that embarrassment to Australia…. Tony Abbott ( soon to be Ambassador to Tuvalu)….. and as someone here said recently ” the trolls have the same IP address” …. What do you think of that El Gordo and Co….. ( excluding Iain, but mainly ’cause I got a sore *scroll* finger), the same Internet Prov. .. what say you trolls…. or should I say “cell” buddies….. 😀

  105. On John Howard and the new history curriculum..

    Mr Howard called on state education ministers to do something about the curriculum.

    He and opposition education spokesman Christopher Pyne have declared the role of Western civilisation is a crucial element in Australian history and must be properly taught in high school.

    Yes indeed, it must be taught proper ‘cos we colonials need to know how proper we colonials should be.

    Same as you Cu, I can recite the Kings and Queens of England and know a good deal about the Reformation and onto The Empire. I could provide the names of at least 30 American Indian nations..but would struggle to provide the names of more than 10 Aboriginal nations.

    It is of interest to Australia of how the various peoples arrived in Australia, the Irish and other famines of the midlands, the Machine Breakers, the indentured servants. That is our background and that which should be taught in schools..if anyone wants to learn about English history, then let that person study it as an extension topic.

    From Howard:

    “Magna Carta; parliamentary democracy, the language we speak – which, need I remind you, is now the lingua franca of Asia; much of the literature we imbibe; a free and irreverent media; our relatively civil system of political discourse; the rule of law; and trial by jury . . . these are all owed in one form or another to the British.”

    What utter BS, such utter ignorance!! The English language owes most of it’s roots to an obscure German dialect, a good dose of Latin, a smattering of Greek.

  106. I’m so glad that we dont get Alan Jones here in Broken Hill….. but we do get that other ‘stuck record’.. John “I’v always said that” Laws…. the me-me-me of the shock jock crowd…… and we dont get Bolt either….. phew…… Alan Jones is just so much sputum …… just some dried ejaculant on a piece of wank rag waiting for the *flush* …. and here it cum’s Alan J’s retirement show….. *vomit* 😀

  107. ‘The supermarket giant Woolworths has been accused of deliberately concentrating its poker machines in low income areas to take advantage of some of the poorest people.

    ‘The first study of the locations of pubs and clubs owned by Woolworths shows 70 per cent of its clubs and hotels in NSW are located in low income areas with a concentration in four local government areas: Bankstown, Holroyd, Penrith and Fairfield.’

    Read more:

  108. from your link, Mo,

    Yesterday, Mr Dore said Mr Jones had not made the comments about Ms Gillard’s father. Later, informed there was a recording of the speech, his position changed.
    It was a very long speech and I did not hear it. I have always found Alan to be respectful,” Mr Dore said.

    (my bold)
    this from an aspiring liberal MP, who appears to be delusional, as well as dishonest..
    the lnp really do have major problems facing truth and reality.
    the sooner jones, the rwdb’s of the lnp and their fellow travellers are consigned to the “chaff bag of history” the better for all of us.

  109. Three-quarters of Daily Terror readers agree that Jones has gone too far.

    This draws the question

    What the hell do a quarter of Daily Terror readers think IS far enough?

  110. We can at least draw comfort from the fact that a large majority of the Terror’s readers are reasonably intelligent.

  111. el gordo, can we, or are they just backed into corner. They may be more concerned that internal polls of the Liberals are saying the PM gains anytime they attack her.

    The same occurred for Rudd for a long time after he became PM. The more the Opposition and media threw the dirt, the more the polls went up for him.

    Could we be back at that position once again.

    Could Australians be reverting to their belief in a fair go.

    One can only hope.

  112. ‘…are they just backed into corner.’

    Doubt it, they honestly believed it was a vaux par by a dill and won’t be changing their vote.

  113. Never said anything about changing their votes.

    Just pointing out, that some of them are realizing vilification only has a limited shelf life, that has been reached. It no longer works.

    If this is true, Labor and the PM has nothing to fear. Her achievements and actions will survive scrutiny.

    Problem for Abbott is that he seems to have nothing left in his armour.

  114. CU its the intention of the incoming Abbott government to slash public service spending, like Newman in Qld and O’Farrell in NSW, so he will take his cue from their success.

    ‘vilification only has a limited shelf life’

    I disagree, Miglo and crew are still going strong and I assume will continue along this line for years to come.

  115. El gordo, precisely about the location of poker machine venues. Unfortunately many clubs prey on those whose mathematical abilities aren’t as adequate as some..those who do not realize that they have a snowball in hell’s chance of winning on the pokies, those who do not just think that they can win it back but who rely on it.

  116. El gordo, on slashing the public service..this means as per the Newman and O’Farrell governments, less services and those which do manage to survive the cull are less efficiently run. The nit-picking has been appalling such as cancelling children’s music programs. Remember, it is the quality of life things which will be the first to go.

  117. el gordo, where is the villification on this site. I see your comments as unneccessary and an insult to Migs. You arte allowed here as a guest and abuse that position.

  118. The Primary Dynamic

    Please thoroughly read it, and yes I know there’s a lot of incomprehensible to most of us maths and stats in the piece.

    What it shows is that unique to the government the fortunes for Labor are linked to the fortunes of Gillard.

    So now we can understand why Abbott, the opposition and the right wing media and mouthpieces are so virulent in their attacks against her for if they get rid of her they have government.

    Only problem is that Gillard, very much to her credit both as a leader and as a person, has not fallen or played their nasty game.

  119. “…so he will take his cue from their success.”

    What success? They haven’t been successful at all even in the very short time they have implemented their slash and burn, and in the long term just as it did for Kennett, it will fail.

    el gordo you just throw out bullshit for reaction. There is no intelligence in it, no thoughtful analysis or credibility, just lots of short sentence crap. And inevitably you are always wrong, never right.

  120. Definitions for vilification
    Princeton’s WordNet

    smear, vilification, malignment(noun)
    slanderous defamation
    abuse, insult, revilement, contumely, vilification(noun)
    a rude expression intended to offend or hurt
    “when a student made a stupid mistake he spared them no abuse”; “they yelled insults at the visiting team”
    Webster Dictionary

    the act of vilifying or defaming; ab

    Definitions for Vilifyˈvɪl əˌfaɪ
    Random House Webster’s College Dictionary

    vil•i•fyˈvɪl əˌfaɪ(v.t.)-fied, -fy•ing.
    to speak ill of; defame; slander.
    Obs. to make vile.
    Origin of vilify:

    1400–50; late ME < LL vīlificāre. See VILE , -FY
    Princeton's WordNet

    vilify, revile, vituperate, rail(verb)
    spread negative information about
    "The Nazi propaganda vilified the Jews"
    Webster Dictionary

    to make vile; to debase; to degrade; to disgrace
    to degrade or debase by report; to defame; to traduce; to calumniate
    to treat as vile

    Note: The aim is to harm. If there are any that behva in this manner, is could only be the trolls.

  121. el gordo, since Labor came into power in 2007, there has been a ongoing culling of PS in a manner that does not effect programmes.

    This has been done by careful targetting and efficeincy methods, that have led to higher productivity.

    There has been use of new techology.

    Good governancer requires that this is ongoing and never ending.

    I think any future government will find little fat to trim.

    What the real argument should be about is how the spending is priorised.

    Motherhood statements that they will do a review, then cut are a little stupid. The public more supider if they swallow the spin.

    A great number of the programmes that have been dumped in Queensland, do not amount to a great amount opf money. At the same time they provide much needed services to the community. They mostly save money for the taxpayers.

    It is all about idelogy, not whether we can afford it or not.

    To mount the argument that they are over spending is based on a report by Costello, that has made up his own rules to get the number required. He is not following conventional auditing rules. If he did, the so called debt would be lower, and come back to surplus without the massive cuts being made.

    There is a big danger that the state will tumble into biggerr, not less debt.

    Yes, I agree, Mr. Abbott will take his cues from Queensland and take the nation down this path. Would not be surpised if Costeelo was given the job. He will be available as it appesrs no one in the private sector will employ him.

  122. Alan Jones wants attention? Let’s give it to him.

    Alan Jones is a cruel bully when no one has the chance to answer him back, and sacking him won’t change that — instead, let’s make Alan Jones face the public.

    Mr Jones needs to be held accountable, rather than be allowed to run away from it. Start a petition at for him to make a public appearance with Prime Minister Gillard on the ABC, and send it to all your networks.

    Together we can use this moment to bring the public debate on misogyny where it belongs — front and centre. Start a petition here:

  123. What Jones said was vile, but its alright if this blog says much worse about the monk.

    Its irrational.

  124. So calling ‘it’ the Monk is rational to your mind, El Gordo…mm!! .. but then again we should defer to you, El Gordo… you being an ‘expert’ on irrational behaviour.. 😉

  125. el gordo, what has been said about Mr. Abbott on this site, that is in the same field park of the abuse aimed at the PM.

    What particular alleged villification are you talkng about.

    Just name one. What vile comment has got up your nose.

    By the way, it is twenty three hours since the two line statement. No sign of Mr. Abbott since Friday. He will be suffering withdrawal synptoms being so long out of the lime light.

    No pictures of him, hanging off the arms of those beautiful daughters at the Grand Finals. None of the PM either.

    Sorry el gordo, if you see my comments as vile. Just asking questions and relaying facts.

  126. Mr Jones needs to be held accountable, rather than be allowed to run away from it. Start a petition at for him to make a public appearance with Prime Minister Gillard on the ABC, and send it to all your networks.

    I agree that Mr Jones needs to be held accountable, but I vehemently disagree that Julia Gillard should EVER again have anything to do with this grub. Never again should she even acknowledge his existence, let alone give him more air and legitimacy by appearing together with him 😈

  127. Hi Shane

    The meaning of the word ‘vilification’ needs closer examination, what he said and what you lot say about Abbott….

    The relentless universal attack on a radio commentator who attracts only 2% of Australia’s listening public, should also be seen in perspective.

    Its essentially a beat up as 300 more boat people arrived this weekend….a perfect distraction.

    Jones is a dumbarse, nobody can deny.

  128. Hi el gordo

    He deserves the relentless attack after his comments. His hatred of Julia Gillard went too far and the majority of the country agree. While he attracts 2% of the listening public he ha snow outraged 98% of the population.

    Just what has 300 boat people got to do with Alan Jones comments. Talk about changing tack in the wind of opinion.

  129. I would like to think those boat people are welcome in Australia. I’d also like to think the comment from Jones isn’t.

    Try something else el gordo.

  130. No, el gordo, you didn’t create a diversion. You just stood up as someone we could all laugh at.

    And if you feel that CW has a vile tone you are uncomfortable with then you may wish to consider a blog site that makes you feel more welcome.

    Good luck with that.

  131. CU
    On the non appearance of Abbott, Albanese noted today that when the Telegraph broke the Ashby story on a Saturday in March, Abbott was out in front of the cameras on the Saturday morning at 9am. He also had a full page press release. As Albanese said compare that to Abbott on Sunday, no appearance and at 3pm a 2 line statement.

  132. There are other things that concern this government.

    That’s why today I announced the details of Labor’s next big reform for working families – Dad and Partner Pay. From 1 January next year, dads and same-sex partners will be able to access two weeks paid leave at the minimum wage – so they can spend some time at home with mum and the baby in those important first weeks of a child’s life.

    Dad and Partner Pay builds on Labor’s strong tradition of standing up for working families. If you know someone who might benefit from these reforms, please forward this email and make sure they know about them

  133. ‘Good luck with that.’

    Its tough out there and even the Trash has gone over to the hysteria of the Jones Affair.

  134. I watched a rerun of Big Ideas this week. I think it weas called something like, Labor in vain. It was a good discussion on Labor today. Main guest, Steve Bracks. and Tnngle. Put a lot of what if going on now in perspective. ABC 24

  135. ‘Lot more but will be ignored and another diversion/side track proffered.’

    The Observer is the weekend version of the Guardian, the warminsta mouthpiece, its stands to reason they would be slightly bent.

    When I have a little time I’ll go through those links, thanx for thinking of me.

  136. Energy retailers feel sting of $1m fines for illegal door knocking
    Published 11:43 AM, 1 Oct 2012
    Login or register to post comments
    The Federal Court has ordered Alinta subsidiary Neighbourhood Energy and Australian Green Credits by consent to pay a total penalty of $1 million for illegal door-to-door selling practices following action by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.

  137. Do not believe these are the links that interest el gordo.

    An ongoing working relationship between California and Australia has been established in relation to carbon trading, which could eventually lead to a linking of the two regions’ carbon markets, Parliamentary Secretary for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, Mark Dreyfus, said.
    The plans to “work together” will focus on the development of regional and global carbon markets, the exchange of comparative experiences on climate policy, and the exploration of options for linking carbon markets over the longer term.
    “California has long been at the forefront of US efforts to reduce carbon pollution. What happens here is watched closely by others states and nations,” Mr Dreyfus said.

  138. Factbox: Carbon trading around the world
    Published 8:07 AM, 1 Oct 2012
    carbon pricing, carbon trading, climate policy, Enviro-Markets, Policy & Science
    Login or register to post comments
    Nina Chestney
    Carbon trading schemes are emerging all over the world as governments try to meet greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets in the fight against climate change.

  139. ‘In The Long Thaw, David Archer, one of the world’s leading climatologists, predicts that if we continue to emit carbon dioxide we may eventually cancel the next ice age and raise the oceans by 50 meters.’


  140. “We haven’t seen this high concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere for several million years,” Channell said. “All bets are off.”

    Hmmm…..doubt it, but I’ll do some research.

  141. ‘If anthropogenic carbon release were 5000 gigatonnes or more, glaciation will be avoided for at least half a million years. As things stand now, the combination of relatively weak orbital forcing and the long atmospheric lifetime of carbon dioxide is likely to generate a longer interglacial period than has been seen in the last 2.6 million years.’

    That’s the models talking.

  142. el gordo, after all your expertise and intensive knowledge, you would have the information at your fingertips.

  143. John Howard’s history war
    From: The Australian October 01, 2012 12:00AM

    THE proposed national history curriculum is typical of the hidden horrors that an elite, clinging to the coat-tails of a naive Labor government, can inflict on us.

    John Howard has ensured that the proposal will not fly under the radar to carpet-bomb our educational institutions with leftist theories (“Bizarre history curriculum studies Kylie not capitalism”, 28/9).

    One giveaway is the proposal that Australia be studied as a new-world settler society. Settler is a term to be uttered through gritted teeth. If the curriculum is adopted, all those Australians who have worked for generations in war and peace to build a nation reflecting man’s highest ideals will have been snookered.

    The effrontery of the devisers is breathtaking but they won’t get away with it.

    Peter Edgar, Garran, ACT

  144. Its 15 million years.

    You expect us to believe that??

    It’s just a link with words from those nasty, socialist scientists. 😯

    I won’t believe till wtfuwt has it on his bog! 😆

  145. Yes Tom that came from those people called scientists who are all on the take and only doing it for the grants and world domination, so it can’t be true. So I say it wasn’t 15 million years but 14 million years and getting less CO2 purely because I want to and based on something a non-scientist said that conservative think tanks paid him to say.

  146. Fifteen million years is a long time and the scientists might be correct, its no concern to me, just an academic exercise.

  147. Are you still here el gordo? Still talkin’ shit?

    Have you ever stopped to consider why it is that you’re considered as a pariah wherever you go? Perhaps you should ponder that fact 😉

  148. Bit harsh on poor old misunderstood Gordo…….. Gordo shows us how not to be….. gotta be ‘grateful’ for that…….. and besides think of the comedic relief.. 😀

  149. ‘Still talkin’ shit?’

    In the fullness of time, baccy.

    This is a minor dispute between Mobius and me about how long it has been since we have had this much CO2 in our atmosphere.

    The high priests of the warminista cannot agree….see above.

  150. A new report says the Great Barrier Reef off Queensland has lost half of its coral cover over the past 27 years.

    The Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS) in Townsville in the state’s north says its report is based on the most extensive survey of the Great Barrier Reef to date, beginning in 1985 and at a cost of $50 million.

    It blames damage from 34 tropical cyclones, outbreaks of the Crown of Thorns starfish, and coral bleaching caused by ocean warming for the reef’s decline.

    The report warns the rate of decine has been higher than previously thought.

    It says if current trends continue, the reef’s coral cover could halve again by 2022 and it may lose the biodiversity for which it was listed as a World Heritage Area.

  151. A former staffer of Speaker Peter Slipper is expected to continue to pursue harassment allegations in the Federal Court today, despite reaching a settlement with the Commonwealth.

    On Friday it was revealed James Ashby accepted a $50,000 settlement from the Federal Government and that neither side will claim costs.

    Mr Ashby welcomed the Government’s pledge to implement specific training for MPs and senators about issues of sexual harassment.

    But he said he was going ahead with his Federal Court claim against Mr Slipper because unwanted sexual advances have caused him humiliation, anxiety and stress.

    Mr Ashby was suing the Government, claiming that as the Speaker’s employer it did not provide a safe workplace.

    Mr Slipper and the Government’s lawyers had been working together to have the case thrown out.

    Now Mr Slipper will need to fight it on his own.

    Attorney-General Nicola Roxon said the Government settled its case to avoid a drawn-out and expensive “lawyer’s picnic”.

    Decision today on Forrester and his ability to lead his company, Fortescue. He could be removed as a director and face finds.

  152. Yes silkworm el gordo is ruled out of the debate and thus is wrong because of the derogatory terminology used. It’s a way of covering up for having nothing of any credibility to debate with.

    And el gordo never has anything of credibility to debate with.

  153. ‘Anyone who uses the term “warminsta” is a denialist moron.’

    We are the Denialati and proud.

    ME if the Klimatariat high priests cannot agree on the last time CO2 was this high…then I despair.

  154. CU another case before the courts on trying to clean up the mess of the Howard / costello GST tax’
    ‘THE High Court will rule today on whether Qantas can keep an extraordinary $34 million it has collected in GST from customers who did not show up, in a landmark judgment that hinges on what exactly is a service.

    The Tax Office says Qantas and its subsidiary Jetstar owe $26.6 million in GST they collected on forfeited flights in the first eight years of the tax

    Read more:
    And as another section of this article says about a pevious GST ruling

    ‘Federal Court judge Richard Edmonds said the fact that such an issue ended up in the High Court made a mockery of the prophecy made by the former treasurer Peter Costello that the GST would simplify the Australian tax system.

    Read more:

  155. Sue, that is now three big court cases today.

    How long do you believe before other matters will push Jones out of the news.

    Still does not matter. The government is just getting on with governing.

    Albanese out, talking about the need for a second airport in Sydney. It apears that Greiner disagrees with O’Farrell.

    The big question today, is whether by tonight, Andrew Forrester is still a director on the board of Fortescue or any other company for that matter.

  156. Cu
    from reports in the paper today regarding Ashby, the government will argue that as it is the first respondent and has an agreement to settle, that should be the end of the matter.

    i’ld love twiggy to lose just for the consequences

  157. If the court decides with the govt, re ashby, slipper could be back in the chair next week
    slipper could then chose to decline the chair and ashby would be unemployed.
    and if the case has cost the govt $700,000, who is backing Ashby with PR agents included

  158. Sue, all the government agreed to in the Ashby matter, is that the procedures to deal with sexaul intimidation might not have been up to scratch, that the ministers needed more education.

    The first thing I believe would be addressed, is that ministers do not take staff home with them, and share the bedroom.

    The first thing one learns when dealing with minors, that one never closes a door, when alone with them in any room.

    The Commonwealth was not accused of abuse, only of not having in place, procedures to protect workers.

    At the end of the day, Ashby chose to by-pass what was in place.

    Ashby never at any stage took the matter up with Slipper or anyone else.

    No the government has not admitted that Ashby’s allegations of sexual intimidation have any grounds. The opposite is true, as the Attorney General has said they have not.

    What the Commonwealth has done, is remove any obstacles that prevent this matter to be dealt with in a speedy manner. Slipper did the same when he withdrew some of his statements.

    What is likely to occur today, is both parties be sent away once again, to settle the matter, now that the Supreme Court will no longer be involved.

    Yes, there is much on today.

    We also have the bids for One Steel from Korea and other countries. So much for Abbott’s scare tactics.

  159. ‘Anyone who uses the term “warminsta” is a denialist moron.’

    Why these vile attacks on me?


  160. The hearing was due to continue this morning, with Justice Steven Rares to consider a claim by the Commonwealth that Mr Ashby’s claim represented an abuse of the judicial process.

    But this was stymied by Mr Slipper’s failure to attend the hearing, either in person or through legal representation, drawing a scathing reaction from the judge.

    “He’s not a man in penury, he’s the Speaker of the House of Representatives and I’m sure he gets paid for it,” Justice Rares said.

    “He has a responsibility to the public to be here and there are clear consequences for litigants who don’t turn up, which I would have thought he would be aware of.

    “I’ll order him to attend personally … there’s absolutely no reason why he’s not here today.”

    Counsel for the Commonwealth, Julian Burnside, QC, said that it had been a “difficult time” for Mr Slipper and that he may have stayed away from court to avoid being pursued by the media.

    He also said that the Speaker’s failure to have legal representation at the hearing was related to “financial considerations”.

    But Justice Rares said that the court had received a letter over the long weekend in which Mr Slipper had indicated that today’s hearing was “inconvenient”.

    More to come

  161. Justice Steven Rares sharply criticised Mr Slipper for failing to appear in court or send legal representation in his place for the interlocutory hearing.

    The court heard Mr Slipper instead emailed the court requesting the matter go to mediation if it continued past Tuesday.

    Mr Slipper recently parted ways with his legal team, Maurice Blackburn, and has yet to hire new lawyers.

    “He chose not to be represented. He should be here,” Justice Rares said.

  162. ‘Qantas will have to pay the tax office $34 million in GST it collected from passengers who booked tickets but then didn’t turn up for their flights.

    In a landmark ruling on Tuesday, the court determined Qantas had still provided a service to those customers and therefore owed the Australian Tax Office (ATO) the outstanding GST.’

  163. Justice Rares dismissed this, saying “I don’t regard that as being satisfactory at all.”

    “He (can’t) simply tell the court in a very unsatisfactory way during the bank holiday weekend that he happened to find it inconvenient to be here.

    “He has a clear responsibility to the public to be here.”

    Justice Rares urged the parties to resolve the matter, saying it was difficult to see why “all of this time and expense” was being devoted to the proceedings, given the small amounts of money involved.

    “This case cries out for a resolution,” he said.

    He adjourned the matter briefly.

    78000 now signed

  164. THE resumption today of the sexual harassment case against Peter Slipper will include argument that the matter should not proceed because the Speaker’s accuser, James Ashby, has agreed to settle with his employer, the Commonwealth.

    In reporting to the court that a settlement has been agreed, Commonwealth solicitors will argue that as Mr Ashby has agreed to settle with it, the first respondent, there should be no other case to pursue against Mr Slipper, the second respondent.

    The Commonwealth, not Mr Slipper, is Mr Ashby’s employer.

    Mr Slipper is unlikely to be at the court today and he has yet to hire new lawyers after recently parting company with the Melbourne-based solicitor Josh Bornstein, of the firm Maurice Blackburn.

    The Herald understands Mr Ashby’s legal team will seek to introduce more text messages sent between the former staffer and Mr Slipper.

    Some of the texts are potentially damaging to Mr Slipper and concern his own sexuality.

    Mr Slipper has been stood aside as the Speaker of the House of Representatives since early May after Mr Ashby, who had only worked for him a few months, lodged a sexual harassment claim against him.

    Last week, the Commonwealth maintained that Mr Ashby’s case was vexatious but, nonetheless, agreed to a $50,000 settlement.

    It dropped its contention that Mr Ashby’s case was an abuse of process and Mr Ashby agreed to drop his action against the Commonwealth.

    However, the agreement has yet to be finalised in the court and the Commonwealth solicitors will make their push to have the whole case abandoned or even pushed to mediation before the settlement is finalised.

    The Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, maintained yesterday that the reason the Commonwealth chose to settle was to end the ”lawyers’ picnic” which had cost the Commonwealth more than $700,000 in legal fees thus far.

    If, however, the hearing goes ahead, Mr Ashby’s legal team will tell the court why the sexual harassment suit against Mr Slipper should not be thrown out as an abuse of process before it gets to trial.

    If Mr Slipper has not found a new legal team and the case proceeds, he may represent himself.

    Before Maurice Blackburn ceased to act for Mr Slipper, an application was filed with the court to set aside an earlier decision that had been made by Justice Steven Rares to award some costs against him.

    The costs order was made after Mr Slipper formally withdrew the allegation that Mr Ashby ”unlawfully” sent extracts of his diary to a political rival, Mal Brough and a journalist, Steve Lewis.

    At the time, Justice Rares criticised Mr Slipper’s lawyers for changing their case after the evidence had closed, saying Mr Ashby had foreshadowed using the defence yet Mr Slipper continued to pursue the allegation.

  165. Here is the reason for the governments action.

    Lawyers for the Commonwealth, who last week settled their case with Ashby for $50,000, believe there is no longer a case against Mr Slipper as it is the government, and not the Speaker himself, who is Ashby’s employer.

    Mr Ashby said following last week’s settlement that he would press ahead with the sexual harassment case against Mr Slipper.

  166. Sounds as though the judge wants to Ashby-slipper thing just dealt with

    “Justice Rares said he was not diminishing the “seriousness of the allegations” made by Mr Slipper against Mr Ashby.

    “I’m simply saying that at the moment, there’s a possibility that it can all be resolved,” he said.

    “The case has got to the point where something has got to happen to knock people’s heads together to make them sensible, including the withdrawal of allegations, if that’s a way to resolve it.”

    He ordered Mr Ashby, Mr Slipper and lawyers for the commonwealth to attend mediation on Wednesday.

    The matter was adjourned for hearing on Thursday.

    Oh and the judge said Ashby and Slipper must both attend and face each other in mediation, tomorrow

  167. And more on Ashby /slipper
    But Justice Rares said this appeared to simply be a lack of “consensus on the wording”.

    He also said that even if the allegations were proven they would not demand a damages payout even close to the maximum $110,000 sum allowed under law.

    “This case cannot come within a bull’s roar of that,” he said. “We’re not talking about something that has gone on that would generate a large liability – we’re not talking about a huge amount of money.”

    Julian Burnside, QC, for the Commonwealth, said the government did not withdraw its allegations that Mr Ashby’s lawsuit is vexatious and bought for an improper purpose.

    “The reason for the settlement is that in a no-cost jurisdition it was going to cost a lot of money to get no result,” he said.

    Read more:

  168. is indeed a lucky woman.

    Former South Australian Liberal Senator Mary Jo Fisher says she will focus on dealing with her mental health issues after escaping conviction and penalty for stealing groceries from an Adelaide supermarket.

    Ms Fisher, who has been battling depression for some years, said she was feeling better but still had a “way to go” since being charged with theft and quitting politics shortly after.

    She was accused of stealing from a Coles supermarket at suburban West Lakes in June.

    “I’m very relieved it’s finally all over and I can now focus on dealing with my health issues and I can do so without the pressure of public life and also without the emotional toll and financial consequences that I have suffered over the last couple of years,” Ms Fisher told reporters outside Port Adelaide Magistrates Court on Wednesday.

    “I want to very much thank my family, my friends, my former political colleagues, my lawyers and doctors and members of the community, including some complete strangers, who have continued to help me and continued to reach out to me on my journey.”

    Ms Fisher had pleaded guilty to stealing oranges, cherries, Barramundi, salmon, laxatives and other groceries worth $73.62.

    The court was told she was spotted by a security officer placing items in a plastic bag and a backpack.

    But when she arrived at the checkout she indicated those items had been purchased from another store and paid only for some milk.

    Defence counsel Michael Abbott, QC, said Ms Fisher’s offending had to be considered in the context of her much publicised trial in 2011 when she was found not guilty of a similar charge of theft, but guilty of a minor assault and also had no conviction recorded.

    He asked the court to take into account her well documented battle with a depressive illness, including a bipolar disorder and said a conviction on the theft charge would be a “very black mark for her to bear for the rest of her life

  169. Federal Speaker Peter Slipper and his former staffer James Ashby have failed to reach a settlement in a sexual harassment case after nearly nine hours of mediation. The matter will now return to the Federal Court tomorrow.

    Mr Ashby’s spokesman Anthony McClellan says his client has consistently maintained that his motivations in bringing this case were to stop Mr Slipper and his conduct against him, and to prevent it from happening again.

  170. Tom, how stupid can you be., If Tony says so, it must be true, regardless that no one else seems to agree with him.

    What would f the people involved, RBA and the experts know.

  171. My random graph without context that doesn’t really show what you think it does.

    But I won’t be petty and bring up cross blog denigrations as someone else often does.

  172. Mobius, I think we can have graphs that mean what w want them to. None are any good unless put in context.

  173. Noice graph ME.

    ‘cross blog denigrations’

    I do that occasionally, having no blog loyalty. Wasn’t it you who told me to ‘fuck off’?

  174. In breaking news, WixxyLeaks has been reliably informed that Michael Williamson is to be charged tomorrow morning in connection with the Health Services Union scandal.

    Details are not clear as to what charges Williamson will face, but he has reportedly been told to report to Maroubra Police Station by 8am tomorrow for formal charges to be laid.

  175. ‘None are any good unless put in context.’

    It’s in context, but you have to become familiar with the characters and theories going the rounds. I don’t expect you ever will, but I live in hope that Mobius mans up and takes an interest in post normal science.

  176. El gordo, maybe Möbius had a good reason. Let’s face it, you’ve been acting rather strange lately.

  177. el gordo, you underestimate me greatly. I am very capable of reading graphs. That is when they come wi6th information that gives some idea of what they are about.

    I feel yours a re like what the oil companies used to bamboozle the Timorese. on Four Corners. Adjusted the shape, to allow them to fit onto the paper. Funny, even these people smelt a rat.

    It is up to me to decide whether the theories, and I assume the characters are experts you do not agree with.

    Why waste our time with rubbish and useless graphs. We see through it every time.

  178. el gordo is all bull and bluster, pretends to be knowledgeable but proves to be a obtuse.

    You are right Roswell, el gordo has been more disjointed and ridiculous lately.

  179. ‘Why waste our time with rubbish and useless graphs. We see through it every time.’

    Endless streams of words are of little use, nobody will read it. The graph illustrates David Archibald’s world view, but few over at Watts take him seriously because they are primarily Sceptics.

    I expect Tom to show up any minute with a link to the Jones-Archibald interview, which puts Archy in a bad light.

  180. I wish you would all leave El Gordo alone…. she/it/him has provided a lot of comic relief here at CW…. shim/it/whoms *plausibility wormhole* is closing and you all seem to be intent on denigrating it/was/WHAT!!!! ….. tsk, tsk ,tsk …..for shame on y’all…. can’t you at least feel some empathy for your fellow man/and/or as they approach that D’OH moment………………………and you are El Gordo (sorry 😕 )

  181. I would love to leave el gordo alone LOVO but then el gordo goes and does the usual bullshit thing of distractions and diversions.

    el gordo begs to be criticised with the utter crap, much not portraying what el gordo thinks it does, but most just single sentence trolls with little or no context.

    How are you supposed to respond to a post thrown in referring to something that’s happening in another blog you don’t visit but containing no elucidation or detail, just a name plucked out el gordo’s arse, and then throws in the usual link to a graph with no context or information on what the graph is supposed to mean?

    Shit I can do that until the cows come home. Throw in single sentence nonsense plucked out of somewhere on the Interwebs I just happen to come across, don’t provide any reference or context to it and even better go around finding graphs and just posting links to them, again with no context or explanation.

    Then when asked for explanation or source a diversion of another tact is thrown in or the source is given and inevitably doesn’t actually illustrate what el gordo purports it does.

    That’s not debating or invoking a conversation, it’s trolling.

  182. ‘That’s not debating or invoking a conversation, it’s trolling.’

    I have nothing further to add. As all of you know and agree global warming is happening, so just ignore my global cooling meme.

    Over at Trash they take no notice of my comments and I strongly suggest you do the same.

  183. I have nothing further to add.

    That was pretty much your first post wasn’t it

    Over at Trash they take no notice of my comments


  184. ‘THE nation’s toughest restrictions on alcohol sales in Aboriginal communities will be relaxed by Queensland, triggering warnings from indigenous leaders that progress on violence and school attendance could be destroyed.

    ‘Federal Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin immediately declared any change to the state’s pioneering alcohol management plans, allowing entire communities to be declared dry, must not be at the expense of “vulnerable women and children”.

    Jamie Walker and Patricia Karvelas in the Oz

  185. “As all of you know and agree global warming is happening, so just ignore my global cooling meme.”

    That’s not true el gordo.

    You got yourself into this position by changing your position on climate change several times, seemingly following whatever meme you found on denier or skeptic sites at the time. Now it’s cooling, but not just any cooling, catastrophic cooling. When asked for time frames and information none was forth coming, you went onto another diversion, as you always do.

    On the rare occasions you provide some scientific information or something approaching limpid debate, we I believe discuss it, attempting in our ignorance with our very limited knowledge on the subject to show what we believe is wrong with the anti AGW contentions being made.

    Alas that is not what you most do. You mostly throw in a one or two short sentence posts, often with no reference or detail, or worse just throw up a link to a graph with no context whatsoever, and you make an emphatic no compromise statements. There are no ifs, buts or maybes, just the forceful sentence stated as indisputable fact, when it’s anything but indisputable.

    You also throw in the religion meme, which is an immediate loser and something that is only done when the person who raises it has nothing of substance to debate with. You have done that many times.

    Then there are your diversions, distractions and change of tacts whenever something you have stated has been shown to be incorrect or a source, usually asked for as it was not given in the first instance, turns out to not actually contend what you stated it did.

    I, as I’ve stated several times, would like nothing better than AGW to be proven false and even a hoax, I would eat humble pie in that case. I think I can speak to many others here that they would like the same. But so far that has not come anywhere near to happening, though some cloud forcing experiments in Sweden were initially promising, and nothing you have produced and brassbound stated has gotten within an iota of breaking down the AGW theory. More than that you have thrown in lots of straw men, discredited deniers many on very lucrative big energy/right wing think tank payrolls and a lot of utter garbage much that didn’t make any sense, all whilst claiming to be a lay scientist.

    My biggest beef is that you troll. I once gave you the benefit of the doubt on that front, even apologising for calling you a troll, but I can’t think of any other term for what you do in throwing up single sentence nonsense or links without context purely to provoke a reaction, and then you go off on another tangent when confronted on the nonsense thrown up.

  186. What do denialists have against science?

    apparemtly, as science is about elucidating reality, contains a bit too many “inconvenient truths” for the cowardly timid souls to bear, so the trolls retreat into their fantasies of “convenient lies”.

    i believe that there is also a determination on their behalf, that those lefty, hippy scientists and environmentalists can never be acknowledged as being correct in any matter, after all such people are not of the right , so obviously they must be wrong.

    gullible and fearful they seem to be unable to deal with the realities of humanity’s impacts on our life support system(s) and, rather than make attempt, they hide in cultivated ignorance, conspiracies and delusion, seeking comfort in their fantasies rather than deal with the uncomfortable “left” bias they see in reality.

    of course, many are also paid shills for the Koch brothers, fossil fuel and tobacco lobbies etc. this has been extensively documented in the book Merchants of Doubt.

  187. The old slippery slope argument. When you have nothing else just fall back on that whilst ignoring that it can’t happen legally and that there are societies, including Christian ones, where group marriage is sanctioned but homosexuality is condemned.

    Explain that Andrews?

  188. I believe Romney has blown it…yes, he gave a more passionate and articulate performance than we normally expect from him…

    however, to stand in front of lettering that evokes the constitution…and bring up that very constitution and spouts on about “liberty” and “individual choice” and “religious freedom” and “a strong military” reminded me so much of that Fox News extremist Glenn Beck and his motherhood statements and overly-patriotic pontificating bluster which in turn stimulated memories of the crazier Tea Party moments…and Bush’s pre-emptive strikes…and fiasco in Iraq…

    and in the same breath he spoke about the disabled & elderly…which I’m sure put a chill up many a spine in America…as it sounded like he was saying that government should stay out of the care business and pensions and it should be left to neighbours, family and charity…it was vague, rather disconcerting stuff…

    particularly, when he decided to take ownership of Arnie Duncan – an education reformer and corporatiser despised by many an educator in the western world…and in America particularly…

    and then Romney implied he would add to Arnie Duncan’s draconian approach…in turn branding himself as ARNIE DUNCAN +

    I could see quite a few undecided teacher, elderly, disabled, independent voters fleeing from Romney at this point in the debate.

    A big mistake on his part…catering to the Tea Party, Neo-CON and corporate extremists and aristocracy who sponsor and virtually control him and his campaign.


  189. Romney is slipping so far behind they might as well cancel the elections. Might save him some embarrassment.

  190. All these charges are related to alleged offences since this police body became involved.

    The controversial former boss of the Health Services Union Michael Williamson has been charged with a total of 20 offences.

    Five of those charges relate to recruiting five other people to commit criminal acts by hindering a police investigation.

    One of those people is understood to be his son Chris, a former employee of the Health Services Union.
    Outside Maroubra police station in Sydney’s east, the head of the Fraud Squad, Superintendent Colin Dyson, said that Mr Williamson is alleged to have hindered the police when he and his son removed a bag of documents from the union’s Pitt Street headquarters while police were executing a search warrant at the premises in May this year.

    Mr Williamson is also facing separate charges of asking others to delete computer files from the union’s offices.

    He is also alleged to have encouraged others to destroy documents relating to American Express credit card statements.

    Mr Williamson is also alleged to have fabricated documents that were later presented to the internal union inquiry conducted by barrister Ian Temby, QC, and accountant Dennis Robertson.


    Police said that further arrests were likely and that Strike Force Carnarvon’s broader investigation into widespread allegations of corruption within the union were continuing.

    Superintendent Dyson said that police now had “more persons of interest” than at the start of their inquiry in September last year.

  191. ‘You got yourself into this position by changing your position on climate change several times,’

    It has been warm, the warmest it has been for a thousand years. This modern climate optimum has reached its end and the road ahead is edging down into a valley.

    My view has always been the same, once I realised the reality of the science, global cooling has begun and can be witnessed in the bipolar seesaw.

  192. Thank goodness we have Wayne Swan as Treasurer and not David Murray.

    “The former head of the Future Fund and the Commonwealth Bank, David Murray, believes it is “easily possible” for Australia to suffer an economic downturn similar in magnitude to the one experienced by Greece.”

    Well thanks for your honest opinion David Murray no doubt when you say it is easily possible you are speaking from your experience as chairman of Future Fund where you were ultimately responsible for

    “THE taxpayer-owned Future Fund has $2.8 billion worth of assets in the troubled euro zone, including almost half a billion dollars in the most debt-stricken nations such as Greece”

    Read more:
    in whichGreek debt

    With the experience of Murray looking after the Future Fund and Costello selling off the gold reserves, I repeat aren’t we lucky to have Swan because with Swan we have Australia rated AAA.

  193. Mobius, Migs and others:

    There is a real herd mentality thing going on related to the American debate…to be
    expected off the back of immediate response to debates and flash polls..and of course the corporate media hypes and distorts because they MUST hook-in viewers and listeners for the next debate, it’s one of their high ratings opportunities.

    So making Obama look weaker than he was by using polls that probably have alot of frantic Republican astroturfers etc on them helps their cause.

    And of course the public are desperate for a real competition…and are letting out some of their frustrations related to work, finances, the bailouts, GFC, race etc. on the president…

    and showing their relief that he has some competition…and hoping he gets an arse-kicking…that shifts him into gear.

    Americans are an impatient lot generally, they don’t always get cautious, reflective thinking and policy that helps in the long run.

    That’s their weakness…too bold and brash…

    that’s what they saw in Romney tonite and many were attracted to it…related to it…BUT…that’s exactly what got them into trouble in the first place…

    unthinking, impatient, impetuous brashness and knee-jerk responses…leading to the Iraq War fiasco, unaffordable conflicts, a housing crash, bank ripoffs, accumulation of too much personal debt.

    Obama was never going to win this debate…the need for a cathartic response by impatient, spoilt, racist or still not quite comfortable with a black president, short-term thinking Americans was too high…

    and Obama as the incumbent was bound to cop the blowback.

    Like a mini-Tea Party moment during the mid-term election.

    The people will come to the second debate differently.

    Once the actual debate has been analysed, broken down into focus pieces…once the public look beyond the shallow argument that it confirms Obama is too hesitant, leads from behind.

    Once the public get to scrutinise what Romney actually said…and didn’t say.

    I also believe Obama took this approach on purpose…careful and deliberate with his responses…keeping alot up his sleeve.

    And of course, his mind is occupied by serious issues at present that much of the public are not aware of…including foreign relations.

    It’s not surprising when hearing the BS Mitt comes out with…add the sleep deprivation aspects…and the annoyance with Republican and corporate sabotage and blocking of policy…and the entire world of foreign relations on his shoulder…and job creation during an economically globally unstable time…knowing how much shit was dumped on his doorstop…and worrying about his family and his safety…well, it’s not surprising that Obama seemed at times distracted, quiet, occasionally impatient.

    Considering, I think he did well.

    And it won’t hurt democracy to have a real competition…some intense debates on the issues.

    It also tells Obama voters they can’t be complacent…they must get out and VOTE…same for those Independents who fear a continuation of the “long war” pushed by Cheney…the war that is breaking their economic back…but profiting THE FEW.

    I believe Romney has blown it…but I observe from a more patient, less frustrated, less subjective perspective/eye.


  194. How many Australians following this issue would be shocked. The only shock would be is that it has taken so long. It will be the next bevy of charges that might shock.

    Someone should remind Mr. Abbott, the man has been charged and sub judice comes into play. Not that this worries the Opposition, who are a rule to their selves.

    The arrest of the former health union boss Michael Williamson has prompted opposition calls for the prime minister to stop relying on the vote of fellow ex-HSU official, independent MP Craig Thomson.

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said Australians would be shocked Mr Williamson had been arrested in Sydney and was facing possible criminal charges.

  195. Why, this has naught to do with Mr. Thomson. In fact his name has not been raised in months. All this occurred long after the man departed the HSU. He has been in parliament since 2007.

    ‘Plainly the prime minister has got to take responsibility for this,’ Mr Abbott told reporters in Melbourne on Thursday.

    Ms Gillard was the last person in the country to express full confidence in Mr Thomson, he said.

  196. Is this a backdown by Abbott. Is he admitting that the case might be that Slipper has done nothing, that he as Opposition leader can enforce his resignation. Maybe it is just more unthinking and meaningless words that regularly escape Mr. Abbott’s mouth.

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says Peter Slipper’s future as Speaker is a problem entirely for the prime minister to resolve.

    As a result, Julia Gillard must be accountable for the actions and standards of the man she installed as Speaker, he said.

  197. It is a shame Leigh Sales didn’t ask Murray why he was confident in buying Greek Debt.
    And how about todays media with Abbott. Did any of the journalists ask why would Abbott support the views of Murray who was either unable to read the levels of Greek debt / or worse still thought they could pay it back? Australia’s level of debt is very low compared to Greece and yet according to Murray’s actions
    Australia debt bad
    Greece debt good.

  198. “Mr Swan added that while Australia’s net debt was at 10 per cent of gross domestic product, net debt in Greece was expected to peak around 16 times higher at a ”staggering” 165 per cent of GDP.

    Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chief executive Peter Anderson said the domestic economy was nowhere near experiencing the problems faced by Greece, Portugal or Spain.

    ”I don’t think that we need to talk ourself into a pathway that we’re going to go down towards the Greece or the Spain or the European disease,” Mr Anderson said.

    Read more:

    So what is Murray after? Is he hoping to be Abbott’s auditor, as Costello was for Newman, where any accounting rules go. As long as the final report reads Labor baaaaaaad, Coalition must cut public service, increase productivity i.e workchoices and no money for ndis and gonski.

  199. Cu the poll on the US Presidential debate was as fair as those things can be. A set number of committed voters for each side and an equal number of uncommitted were canvassed for the poll. They were chosen before the debate began and polled immediately after it.

    I haven’t seen the debate so can’t give my personal opinion on it but it does appear on the conversations going on that Romney won convincingly.

    Does it effect the voting outcome? No. Unless one side or another makes a huge gaffe, as has happened in the past, then the empirical evidence shows these debates don’t change voters intentions or have swing voters go one way or another.

  200. Mobius,
    I just responded to you above.

    Left Migs a message on his Facebook site. This is the first time the POST COMMENT button has come up since that last post.

    I’m not going to be posting for a few days…promised Stace I’d take a break after the first debate. We have lots of shows and family to catchup on/with.


  201. Looks as though Alby is loyal to Howard but doesn’t give a toss about Abbott and Julie Bishop’s call for solidarity.
    Next week should be fun in the party rooms.
    “NSW MP Alby Schultz announced on Thursday he won’t support the coalition’s bid to delay the abolition of Wheat Exports Australia (WEA), fuelling speculation of a rift within Liberal ranks on the issue
    If the coalition wins the 2013 federal poll, he said the Nationals would have a “significant lever” to reintroduce more regulation for the industry not dissimilar to the former single-desk system of the Australian Wheat Board (AWB).

    “I’m not going to tolerate it,” Mr Schultz, who is retiring at the election, told ABC radio.

    “I’m not going to compromise that principle, and I would hope that my parliamentary colleagues don’t compromise that principle.”
    Mr Schultz plans to abstain from the parliamentary vote rather than cross the floor as his WA coalition colleague, former crossbench MP Tony Crook, is expected to.

  202. “The prime minister who put him there must answer for him,” he told reporters in Melbourne.

    The opposition leader was responding to questions about Mr Slipper’s future as Speaker.

    Earlier, independent MP Tony Windsor said if Mr Slipper was cleared of both matters there should be no obstacle to him resuming his full role.

    “I wouldn’t see an issue with him being able to return to the chair if in fact all those things happened,” he told ABC radio.

    If it came to a vote in parliament Mr Windsor said he could not see how he would object to it.

    Pressed about the issue, Mr Abbott said: “This speaker is wholly and solely a product of this prime minister and Peter Slipper’s standards are Julia Gillard’s responsibility.”

  203. ‘Is el gord tempting some of us to return to Trash’.

    No…but you lot are more than welcome to drop into the shed (CO2 and You) anytime. Don’t worry, the regulars don’t go there so… you should be safe.

  204. “Pressed about the issue, Mr Abbott said: “This speaker is wholly and solely a product of this prime minister and Peter Slipper’s standards are Julia Gillard’s responsibility.”
    … a product of the Liberal Party Tony !!!!, How many years did they keep pre-selecting him in his seat ????….. and were not his ‘standards’ those of his party “mates”?????….. and wasn’t it his vote (Slippers vote) that got Tones across the line ahead of Turnbull????? NO he’s not ‘ours’, he’s Julias
    Ah, but NO….. its all Julias fault….. na, na,… na, na, .. na….. everything is Julias fault …… after all look at what Julia made Alan Jones say 😕 Look how ‘she’ has dragged ‘our’ economy down to be the envy of the world…… look how her Carbon Tax has ‘rooned’ business, employment, the whole country ROONED….. NO, NO, figures are on the ‘up’….. all a total mess …. and its Julias fault….. Tonys career in tatters…. you guessed it… bloody Julia again… 😀

  205. “Peter Slipper’s standards are Julia Gillard’s responsibility.”

    There may be some truth in that, technically speaking, but its a long shot. Its like saying Jones is a creature of the monk, equally absurd.

  206. Nas has asked me to post this for him as he’s having trouble commenting on WordPress:

    I was wondering if you could post this for me as I can’t…cheers:
    I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments yet but I get the drift that Stacey has not been 100% lately. I do hope she’s on the way to recovery.
    Could you please pass on our best wishes from all here at the Cafe?
    Hi Migs,
    a week ago Stacey had all of her reproductive organs removed…part of a preventative health move motivated by a genetic test that revealed she has Lynch Syndrome…and a high chance of cancer in some parts of her body in her lifetime. A close female family member got cancer of the uterus a few years back, got the genetic test done and this led Stace to this point. Many of her family have died early from cancer. So she took the specialists’ advice.

    She is recovering nicely. Thankyou for your concern and I will pass on your best wishes.


    BTW, has anybody else had any trouble? Min also had a few issues trying to post a comment from a mobile device yesterday.

  207. “Its like saying Jones is a creature of the monk, equally absurd.”

    el gordo, you could have that the wrong way about. The modern day Liberal Party is a creature of Jones.

    Not frighten to go to the other site. I just do not like being bored.

    Nas, hope things improve quickly for your better half and you.

  208. Ashby was asked by the judge how much money did he want. The judge then said that is not a hard question to answer. 7.30 ABC

    No charges against Thomson but the Opposition has him convicted and sentence. Uhlmann, the longer the governments stands, the better it’s chance at the next election.

    This from Uhlmann. Things must be going bad for Abbott.

    Uhlmann also said that the only reason the Williamson and Thomson matter is in front of the community, is because of the hung parliament.

  209. ‘Not frighten to go to the other site. I just do not like being bored.’

    We can watch this vid here, its not too offensive.

  210. That’s interesting Bacchus and perhaps Barry is only flying kites, anyway its not my preferred option. I want a very fast train under the sandstone curtain to open up the west.

  211. I have problem with the fact that all roads lead to the centre of Sydney. Something wrong with that concept..

  212. From the Financial Times: “Sales of U.S. coal in Europe are booming as European power companies forego natural gas. The U.S. is on track to break the 1981 record for coal exports of 112.5M tons, with Europe accounting for more than half of this year’s coal export tally.”

  213. “sandstone curtain” , luv it.
    “I have problem with the fact that all roads lead to the centre of Sydney. Something wrong with that concept..”
    If you live in the Far West of NSW those are the norms. We know we live in the unincorporated lip-service…… aka. not many votes……..
    Why do you think they call it the ‘Great Dividing Range’……… intuitive fella’s Blaxland, Wentworth and Lawson…….. NSW stops at Dubbo,…. everybody knows that !!!!!!!!!!!! (true)

  214. This from The Infrastructure NSW report

    End of the line approaching for Countrylink
    The proposal is buried in the long-awaited Infrastructure NSW report released yesterday by former premier Nick Greiner.

    Time is running out for the government to determine the fate of the iconic Countrylink XPT trains, the majority of which are now nearly 30 years old despite being designed to last just 25. They were only ever meant to travel 6.25 million kilometres but have notched up nearly 10 million.

    Some are already experiencing ‘fatigue and corrosion issues’, according to a confidential report compiled late last year.

    If the O’farrell government go through with this, regional communities will die as the XPT and Explorer trains are the only means of transport to the larger cities, Buses will not work as people with disabilities and the elderly cannot get onto buses.

    The State Government Needs to replace these trains with newer and faster trains, not with buses.

  215. LOVO, do you realise that children today are taught about graphs in kindy. At my grand daughter schooll, mum has to sit down with her every night while she does her homework. It is handed in weekly. One exercise was for the child to collect different toys. Line similar ones in rows.

    The child then has draw along a line pictures of the toys, forming a graph.

    The words use are data and graph. They have to enter the data into the graph. That is what they are told to do.

    That is say five dolls. Four teddies etc. in piles along the line.

    If it is possible for a kindy child to understand that graphs are made up of data, one would think most adults would be able to deal with the concept.

    It appears not here.

  216. Paul, For the last 3yrs I have taken my kids away on holidays at chrissy travelling from Broken Hill to Sydney on the ‘Outback Explorer’… the cost of a ticket has been 1full fare adult ($220-230ish r/t) and up to 3 kids from the same family… $1 one-way per child….. this means I pay $6 for the kids return…… this means I, that lives in the outback can afford to take my kids to a BEACH…. see those things called ‘ forests’… see that there are buildings in Australia ‘bigger’ than 3 storeys….. that having 3 people ahead of you in a line is not really as bad as you would think… ( I dont know how you city people put up with the lining up thing 😯 ) …If I had to pay full fare we would probably be forced to go to Adelaide instead. …f* that 😉 I’m a NSWelshman….. and getting more isolated by the mo…

  217. Cheers Cu,
    I will pass on yer best wishes to Stacey.

    Keep up the fab work. I oft read yer comments. You are a prolific and informed writer. As are Mobius, LOVO, Sue, paulwello, Bacchus, Tom R, jane, 2353 and many others.

    A vibrant blog.

    Thnx Migs for the posting. I look forward to yer next enlightening…and witty post. Same goes with Min and yer other top posters. Wixxy included.

    Til later.


  218. LOVO, I go to sydney about 3 or 4 times a year, do not like travelling on buses because of health to expensive by plane so the train is the only way, as it is with a lot of people in the west.

    The last state government was going to do the same thing, to many people protested about it, so they stayed. Us poor country people always get left behind, nothing exists over the blue mountains.

  219. Of-course, one doesn’t want to get ahead of oneself – in any displays of self-importance. That happened last night when the former head of the Future Fund and Commonwealth Bank (David Murray) claimed that it was “easily possible” for Australia to become like Greece (in economic terms).

    Hello out there – currency issuer versus currency user! Seems these self-aggrandizing business types who command far too much air time on the national media haven’t really understood the difference.

    The danger is that in thinking we could become like Greece, the national government will undermine growth and employment and bring on a recesion and/or period of persistently high unemployment (unnecessarily).

    For some background on what this character did while chair of the so-called Future Fund (which would be better named the Undermining the Future Fund), please read the blog from 2009 – The Futures Fund scandal.

    On the ABC national current affairs program 7.30 last night – Former Future Fund chair measures economic health – David Murray was interviewed in the light of the RBA’s decision to cut rates.

    He claimed that Australia is facing a period where “we’ll be left with debts that have to be repaid and a tougher time” and he considered “belt-tightening” to be an appropriate strategy. It depends on whose belts are to be tightened.

    Australia is now slowing – which means aggregate demand is deficient. But the private sector is carrying record levels of debt courtesy of the relatively unfettered credit binge that the financial free-for-all fostered. So that sector overall has to tighten its belt.

    But with a growing current account deficit draining growth and the private domestic sector having to tighten its belt, the only way growth can be maintained is if the government deficit expands. The government should definitely not be belt tightening.

    But Mr Murray disagrees.

    He claimed in relation to ……..

  220. A majority of Daily Terror readers don’t believe the monk has a problem with women.

    Does that mean that the ‘real’ tabot is jumping at shadows?

  221. “A majority of Daily Terror readers don’t believe the monk has a problem with women.”

    And the demographic of the majority of Daily Telegraph readers are?

  222. Oh dear
    I just read that article on Margie, where she supposedly claims that Tony is so optimistic.

    And how silly of me, I thought the Tele had done a poll but no, it is currently running one of those on-line polls which has “Tony not having a problem with women”

    So either internal Liberal polling is confirming the national trends of the polls or Tony is reacting to what? his inner Downton !

  223. Stephen Koukoulas is scating of Mr Murray too CU…

  224. And this puts Mr Murray’s dribble into context:

  225. We’ve always known the Liberals are THE party of spin. But even the PARTNERS of Liberals are getting in on the spin act now! God save us from this useless party.

  226. Sue, yes Mr. Abbott might get on with his wife and daughters, no one has said he does not.

    What Mr. Abbott has trouble with, is women who are his equal in the workplace.

    Mr. Abbott needs to show these women the same respect.

    The criticism of Abbott has come from his actions when dealing with them.

    There are many instances of his rudeness and inability to work alongside them over the years.

    After all the godfathers of the America all put their families on pedestals, does not make them nice men in society at all.

    Maybe if Mr. Abbott could acknowledge that Ms. Gillard is PM and cease saying “she: and “her” all the time would be a start.

  227. The wife of Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has come out in defence of her husband over claims he is sexist and can’t handle women in positions of power.

    Appearing with her husband on the Nine Network, Margie Abbott says politics is a tough business and success in politics requires a tough exterior.

    “So seeing the real person is often very difficult and sitting in front of a camera is perhaps not the best opportunity to show that softer side.”

    Ms Abbott said Mr Abbott was everything she could want in a husband and their daughters were “in love with their father”.

    “Tony Abbott gets women and … the women in Tony Abbott’s life certainly get him,” she said.

    “So perhaps less of the camera and more of the women.”

    Ms Abbott has also written an article for News Ltd newspapers and will make a speech in Sydney later on Friday spruiking her husband’s connection with women.

  228. Of course all that needs to be done, to solve the Oppositions perceived wrongs in the Australian economy, is to return to Work Choices. This in spite of the fact there is no evidence that it delivered a better economy.

    New South Wales Premier Barry O’Farrell has warned Prime Minister Julia Gillard that the federal government’s Fair Work Act must be changed in order to prevent further rises in electricity prices, according to The Australian.

    In a letter to the PM, Mr O’Farrell said the government needed to take action against the current industrial relation system, or watch rising wages and costly work practices weigh on the price of power.

    According to the newspaper, the letter was also critical of the government’s renewable energy target.

    “[The federal] government is the only government in Australia with an explicit policy of raising electricity prices,” Mr O’Farrell said in the letter.

    “While the NSW government has been acting to place downward pressure on electricity prices, our actions have been overwhelmed by federal policies and green schemes which add costs to household electricity bills.

  229. More.

    Imagine the outcry if the PM’s partner came out in public denying the PM was a lie and that she was a caring and loving woman.

    What if her mother and sister came to her defence.

    All would be ridiculed. What’s more, it would only prove she was loved by her family, nothing more.

    She also wrote that Mr Abbott has played a big part in supporting their daughters in “living the life that feminists aspire for every young woman”.

    News Ltd reports Mrs Abbott will address more than 80 Liberal women in Sydney’s west on Friday, alongside their daughter Frances, Mr Abbott’s mother and two of his sisters, as the Coalition tries to defuse Labor’s claims he has a problem dealing with women.

    The latest Newspoll, published in The Australian on Friday, which analysed figures in the past three months, showed 29 per cent of women are satisfied with Mr Abbott’s performance, compared with 34 per cent of men.

    Attorney-General Nicola Roxon has claimed Mr Abbott has a problem with capable women, while Health Minister Tanya Plibersek has said he has difficulty dealing with women in positions of authority.

  230. Polls mean little at this time, but the trend is the right way for Labor.

    This trend is what the PM predicted and promise her party would happen.

    Support for Labor has grown in Queensland but the Gillard government would still lose an election, according to a Newspoll.

    Swings in seats in Queensland and New South Wales would be enough to tip the balance towards the Coalition, The Australian reported on Friday.

    Labor’s primary vote in Queensland has risen from a record low of 22 per cent to 30 per cent. The Coalition’s primary vote in the state has fallen from a 54 per cent high to 47 per cent.

    Both Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott suffer from gender bias, the poll also revealed.

    More men than women believe Mr Abbott would make a better Prime Minister than Ms Gillard – 42 per cent of male voters, compared with 34 per cent of females….

  231. Cu @9.37am re your link..

    I’m sorry Margie, I care not two hoots whether or not the women in Abbott’s life are madly in love with him or’s his vision for the country, or rather lack thereof which matters.

  232. To have so many of the Abbott family women attending a function ” to prove ” he hasn’t got a problem with women is truly desperate.
    Ever since abbott became leader the polls have shown that women voters have a problem with him. So from this low base the figures must have plunged. But Abbott has had 5 years as leader and only for 2 years has Gillard been the PM, so for Abbott and his team they must be running out of ideas if they think this will help unless of course they are more worried for the short term . There is probably going to be a Newspoll this weekend and Abbott is desperate that with parliament returning there is no momentum to start a change of Liberal leadership.

    then there is also the problem of the wa liberals versus the national party.

    Abbott is weakened and now despaerate.

  233. RIght behind and I am sure in her place. Could not help the sarcasm.

    All I can see in the interview, is that Abbott does not rule in his home. So what, a lot of men do not.

    Margie Abbott is right behind her husband as he cops criticism over his relationship with women. Source: The Australian

    THE woman closest to Tony Abbott has revealed intimate details of their private life together, including how he was a “wreck” when she suffered a miscarriage.

    His wife of 24 years, Margie Abbott doesn’t enjoy public attention or fit the mould of a political spouse.

    But in response to claims her husband has a problem with women, she agreed to a wide-ranging interview with News Ltd about their family life with their three daughters.

    When asked if Mr Abbott had cried at the births of their children, Louise, 23, Frances, 21, and Bridget, 19, Mrs Abbott disclosed a personal tragedy which shattered the Opposition Leader.

    “He was emotional (at their births) and if I may tell you a very personal story there was an occasion where I actually had a miscarriage between daughters one and two,” she said.

    “I kept it all together, but Tony was a wreck.

    “Having a child is a very happy time, but I don’t think tears were part of that (when their daughters arrived safely). Certainly he felt it when I miscarried.”

    As the Abbott girls were growing it was their father who was the soft touch.

    “I am the tough one in the family. He is the soft touch and as a result he has a wonderful relationship with the girls which sometimes I am a little envious of,” she said.

    “That is the price you pay for making sure the rules are followed in the Abbott house.”

    She added: “Our girls have been happy to do all kinds of things with their father, from canoeing to kayaking to mountain climbing, almost.”

    Mrs Abbott talks of a husband who calls twice a day, morning and night, no matter where he is travelling, which is often to several capital cities in a week.

    When he is at home in Sydney, Mrs Abbott says her husband is happy to unload the dishwasher, barbecue dinner, get Indian takeaway, or clean the kitchen after she makes dinner.

    If they watch a sad movie together he will get “teary,” she said.

    Mr Abbott said he was embarrassed he became “sooky” in The Year My Voice broke, one of the first movies the couple saw together.

  234. A party in unison?

    TONY ABBOTT is battling to contain growing dissent in his ranks with Liberal MPs threatening openly to either cross the floor or abstain to ensure the passage of a government bill deregulating the wheat market.
    Already facing deep unrest among WA Liberals over the policy about-face led by the Nationals, which is designed to stop or frustrate deregulation, Mr Abbott now faces the prospect of the NSW Liberal MP Alby Schultz abstaining from the vote, due within weeks.

    Mr Abbott sought to pull Mr Schultz and others into line yesterday, saying ”you should not leap to any conclusions about what anyone is going to do”.

    But Mr Schultz told the Herald he would not be swayed and was honour-bound to support original Coalition policy to deregulate the market following the wheat-for-weapons scandal………..

  235. It’s ON ……(again). The low hanging fruit of lazy journalism, yes a LEADERSHIP challenge.

    This time it is the leader of the opposition. Poor Tony has to wheel out the family as none of his inner cadre want to be seen anywhere near him.

    …..and he has started calling HER, the Prime Minister.

    Talk about having to swallow the toad.

    I predict Abbott will be crying over more than Downton Abbey in the next 4 weeks.

  236. Sue, always always Tony has been somewhat tacky in his attitude towards women..and this is what a majority of women hone in on. Statements such as not being able to get enough sex while on the campaign trail, virgin daughters..and,

    4.‘The problem with the Australian practice of abortion is that an objectively grave matter has been reduced to a question of the mother’s convenience.’

    5. ‘I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons’

    6. ‘I think there does need to be give and take on both sides, and this idea that sex is kind of a woman’s right to absolutely withhold, just as the idea that sex is a man’s right to demand I think they are both they both need to be moderated, so to speak’.

  237. TONY Abbott and Julia Gillard are both failing to secure the votes of the opposite sex according to Newspoll.

    The latest Newspoll analysis of surveys taken between July and September, conducted exclusively for The Australian, reveals just 29 per cent of female voters are satisfied with his performance compared with 34 per cent of men. Julia Gillard also faces a gender imbalance, with just 27 per cent of men satisfied with her performance compared with 32 per cent of women. The polling also shows Labor no longer faces an electoral wipeout in Queensland, but would lose at the next election based on swing seats in the Sunshine State and NSW alone.

  238. A SYDNEY insulation contractor’s lax approach to health and safety contributed to the death of 19-year-old installer Marcus Wilson under the government’s insulation scheme.

    Wilson died on his first day on the job, installing insulation under the federal government’s stimulus program, after being asked to fill in for a mate on a scorching day in November 2009.

    Yesterday, a Sydney coroner found Wilson died from complications arising from hyperthermia, or heat stroke, after working in a roof in temperatures of more than 42C.

    Wilson had been working as a sub-contractor installing insulation in a western Sydney house for Pride Building.

    The company was not aware he had filled in for his friend, Calum McLean, on that day.

    Deputy State Coroner Hugh Dillon said Pride did not train or employ Wilson, but he was performing work from which the company ultimately profited and he was indirectly subject to its workplace practices and culture.

    “While Pride was not directly responsible for Mr Wilson’s death, its casual approach to health and safety issues contributed significantly to him being placed in harm’s way,” Mr Dillon said.

    Management erroneously believed that once contractors left their depot, the company’s obligations to them was reduced “virtually to zero”, he said.

    “The obvious inference is that Pride was concerned more with profit than with the health and safety of its contractors.”

    The government’s $2.45 billion insulation scheme, introduced as part of its stimulus package, was axed over fraud and safety concerns, following the death of four installers.

    Wilson was the third person to die fitting insulation under the scheme.

  239. Independent MP Tony Windsor told ABC’s AM program yesterday that Abbott was “living to regret that the Parliament has outlasted his strategy timing in a sense and he’s paying somewhat of a penalty for that”, and suggested there was only a 50:50 chance Abbott would still be leader at election time.
    But if he is still leader, and indeed if he wins the election, it is hard to believe we will see anything other than the politics of retribution from a Labor opposition. After all, the Coalition has long argued its opposition tactics were modelled on the Labor opposition approach of the Crean era…

  240. Mr. Brandis now on ABC 24 attacking Ms. Roxon. It appears that Ashby did release further personal emails between him and Slipper. It appears that Mr. Slipper’s language when it comes to women is shocking.

    This is what Ashby promised last week, as I understand would happen if Slipper did not do as he wanted.

    As Brandis has proven to be wrong so often in the past, will wait to see what other experts have to say.

    He was very careful in the words he used and how he spoke.

    I seem to recall other Attorneys General’s of Liberal ilk being outspoken when it suited them. Especially back in the day’s of Howard.

  241. Not only mum and daughters out. Two sisters as well. His mother if around would be proud of the lot of them.

    If we can believe what is written, Mr. Abbott has always since he was born had the adoration of his parents and sisters, all knowing the he would end up as PM.

    It appears the sisters as adults are keeping to the script, put in place by the parents. All in the family, revolve around the golden hair boy.

    Problem in IMHO, is that the boy has never grown up. Still reacts as a spoilt brat.

  242. Could the change in the trend in the polls have more to do with the fact, that the scenario that Abbott created to scare people has failed to appear. Could it be that the populace is waking up to the fact, that little what the man says has substance. Could they be seeing that he is little more than a ball of hot air, a man that exaggerates at all times. At man that one cannot believe.

    Could it be that the public is checking out what Abbott is saying by taking a look at the PM, and finding they like what they see.

    Could they just be bored with his continual daily stunts, that consist of three words slogans, that never change.

    The speedos went first, then the lycra and bike. Now he as to say PM. What a comedown for such a great man.

  243. I wonder how swollen with pride Tonys daddy gets when his ‘boy’ tells porkies in parliment…… or on telly…. or in the papers ….. or anywhere in ear-shot of anyone….. the only time he’s ever told the ‘truth’ is when he said he tells lies….. but then again Daddsy was a Liberal too…. so one would assume that Tones has been well versed in that area…. 😀

  244. The first turbines have started turning at Australia’s largest wind farm, the project’s developers have said.
    The 420 MW Macarthur wind farm, operated by AGL Energy and Meridian Energy, has achieved the milestone 23 months after construction began.
    The project will become fully operational early next year and is expected to operate for 25 years.

    PM hosting forum on the digital economy. ABC 24

  245. They move off from the forum. Sounded like it could have been interesting.

    Will do what it takes.

    All of this is fine, and it’s probably a good political tactic. It’s clear over the past weeks that his image – especially among women – has been damaged, and painting the man as a great dad who loves is kids can’t hurt.

    But what is incredibly insulting is using the pain of a miscarriage to score political point………..

  246. Sack MARK SCOTT. He worked for Liberal Greiner…he’s corporatising the ABC…why is the ABC obsessed with spruiking News Ltd employees on most of its shows including The Drum and Q&A. Why is Allan Kohler the millionaire thnx to News Ltd buying his Business Spectator being subsidised by taxpayer’s money? Why does ABC 24 Breakfast put up all the News Ltd front pages each morning…and promote FOX SPORTS so much? SACK MARK SCOTT. Enuff is enuff.

  247. I would like to add, there is nothing wrong talking about the miscarriage, but in this context, it is open to be seen as desperation on Abbott;s part.

    The majority of woman, sadly experience at least one miscarriage.

    I think the whole exercise is tacky and misplaced

    We are talking about his ability as a possible PM, not a family man.

    If one points this out, they are then put in the same camp as Jones. Do not see the connection.

    Dropping the daily stunt and crossing of the nation, spending the time with the family would be a good place to begin.

    Second would to be to develop some policies and put them before the public.

    Thirdly, stop trashing the economy and Australia.

    Mr. Abbott needs to show us he has some substance, pass that of A HEAD KICKER AND BULLY.

    There could be some truth in that Abbott does not only abuse women, but all that gets in the way of what he wants.

    He is a bad loser, that can throw a tantrum forever.

    He treats the public as illiterate fools.

  248. But Abbott has had 5 years as leader and only for 2 years has Gillard been the PM,

    Just correcting this Sue. Abbott has been LOTO for 34 months (2 years, 10 months) and Julia Gillard has been PM for 27 months (2 years, 3 months)

  249. So, is this what I’ve heard this morning, tabots wife has gone on air to say the he ‘made an honest woman’ of her?

    Did she bring an iron?

  250. Tom R it is sad that Abbott believes this is the only problem he has.

    It is sad that they will probably get away with portraying all the negative polls as the result of Labor dirt tactics.

    We need to get the focus back to Abbott, his history and his apparent lack of policies.

    I am sure he has plenty, ready to roll with. We are just not going to hear about them.

  251. Thanks Bacchus definitely not 5 years just feels that way.

    Just had a read of Coorey’s article where he also notes the media blitz just happens to coincide with a Newspoll this weekend.

    Team Abbott must be very worried. But what is more appalling is that surviving a “poll” result is more important to the Abbott team than putting a platform of policies to the electorate especially to female voters.

    What idiot in the focus team thought that a softer image is more important to women voters than having an intelligent discussion on Abbott’s vision for Australia.

    what a w@nk

  252. Another loss in Supremes court re asylum seekers. Another of Howard’s efforts hits the dust. Not being able to question why one is denied entry to the country is justice denied.

  253. THE judge has questioned James Ashby’s lawyers over abusing court process for alleging Peter Slipper committed Cabcharge fraud. Picture: Sam Mooy Source: The Australian


    He said he believed Mr Ashby was a friend because Mr Ashby bought him strawberries as a gift and visited his house at “unusual hours”.

    “I’m beside myself, I love the position of Speaker of parliament,” he said.

    “I’m sorry I’m getting upset and worked up,” Mr Slipper said, his voice breaking up.

    “I apologise if I’m expressing emotion that one should not express in a court, but sir I really, I apologise your honour, I obviously feel very strongly about this matter,” Mr Slipper said.

    Mr Slipper conceded had had asked Mr Ashby if he could kiss him and colleague Karen Doane, but said it was an entirely innocent request.

    “I may well have made those comments,” Mr Slipper said.

    “It was concerning a you-tube video on the use of the (parliamentary) Mace,” Mr Slipper said.

    “Mr Ashby as very good in the area of social media… this you-tube video was quite skillfully done. We had lots of hits and it looked as though it was going viral. I stood at the door of my office and looked straight through and said ‘This is absolutely great then the words were said,” he said.

    The words were “Can I kiss you two?”.

    Mr Slipper said he did not make the comment in an “inappropriate” way.

    “Mr Ashby never raised with me or anyone else any level of concern. The relationship in the office was very polite and very pleasant. In the evening when the house sat late everyone had a glass of wine. Until proceedings were filed (Ashby) appeared to be friend. I was in a state of absolute shock when these proceedings were filed.

    Mr Ashby (allegedly) told someone ‘This is going to bring down the government’,” Mr Slipper said.

    “Ive been incredibly distraught as a result of these proceedings, they have been amazingly expensive. I believe these proceedings have been brought as an abuse of process for an improper purpose. It may have been dressed up as sexual harassment but the reality is they are an abuse of process.

    (Law firm) Harmers is funding the proceedinsg but costs have built up and what has happened is they have been brought for improper purpose and they are an abuse of process Im particularly upset at the publicity that has been given when these proceedings were not taken through the genuine process in a confidential way through the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission.

    “A number of (claims) were put in the original document were (later) withdrawn.”

    Mr Slipper said when he first learned of the lawsuit against him he was in New York and had woken up a 2am to go to the toilet.

    He saw an email from Mr Ashby’s lawyers. Later that day when he was flying home from New York he read the article in The Daily Telegraph about the case.

    “I was absolutely gobsmacked,” he said.

    “He had not spoken to me, he had not spoken to anyone, or made comments.”

    “Your honour it is really hard to express how upset I am at what has happened in the last six months since the proceedings were filed. I had no idea that there was anything untoward since I was returning from a delegation.

    “I got up at 2am or 3am to go to the bathroom and found a communication from Harmers law firm.

    “That was the first indication I had that Mr Ashby in any way, shape or form was aggrieved by anything. He didnt speak to my senior advisor or go through the usual process of the government or department,”

    “He went to the media and my political opponents, it was designed to cause the maximum (harm), very hurtful to me and my family.”

    “Mr Ashby was a friend who I thought was a friend. He did his job of social media very well. I was absolutely shocked and amazed when these proceedings occurred.”

    “Your worship, sorry your honour, there is no way I would want to sexually harass someone like, anybody because the thing is I’m so focused on my role as speaker,” he said…………………………………….

  254. ‘We need to get the focus back to Abbott, his history and his apparent lack of policies.’

    Realpolitik…the conservatives don’t need to fly policy kites a year out from an election. They are concerned Julia will steal their ideas.

    Keep hammering away at his history if you want, but it’ll be no use with News throwing their weight behind him….they can create a living saint if they have the mind to do so.

  255. “Prior to Mr Ashby coming to work for me … he ingratiated himself with my wife and me as a friend, at a time when I was under political attack. I was perceived as flat-footed in social media and he was able to assist me re: youtube videos enabling me to put forward my point of view. He became or seemed to become a friend, he went to my wifes party, to a ball.

    “Communications between us were on the basis of what I thought was a friendship, he had the skills I needed in the area of social media. He was a friend who came to work for me.

    “He was perceived to be a friend. There was not a great power difference, he was a friend who came to work in my office. Your worship he turned up at unusual hours at my home, he brought us gifts of strawberries.

    “There was a sugestion that he found the relationship to be untenable yet in March this year he asked to accompany me on an overseas trip to Hungary.

    “He was prepared to pay his own costs to come along. This was not long before my wife and I went overseas. I enquired if he could come as well and I was told it was not possible.”

    An allegation that James Ashby is “a Manchurian candidate” sent in by political “conspirators” to trigger Peter Slippers “political demise” is baseless, Mr Ashby’s lawyers say.,,,,,

  256. Judge says court process may have been abused

    His outburst comes after the judge hearing the case indicated Ashby and his legal team may have abused the process of the court by alleging Mr Slippper committed Cabcharge fraud.

    The allegation of misuse of Cabcharge dockets was made by Mr Ashby in documents filed at the start of the case in April, but it was dropped a month later when further documents were filed.

    Justice Steven Rares today told Mr Ashby’s barrister Michael Lee SC that allegations of Mr Slipper’s “questionable conduct in relation to travel” as a breach of Mr Ashby’s work contract were serious claims to make in a court, then to withdraw.

    Lawyers are subject to strict professional conduct regulations which can see them disciplined for making serious allegations in a court pleading without a proper basis.

    Justice Rares said no evidence had been provided to support the allegations of fraud or misconduct by Mr Slipper.

    “How do you get to a breach of contract let alone reporting it to the police?” Justice Rares asked.

    “How is it going to be proved there’s anything wrong (with the use of Cabcharges)… it may well be wrong, I don’t know,” Justice Rares said.

    “(You alleged) It was a suspected crime, that’s the point,” Justice Rares said.

    Mr Ashby alleges he saw Mr Slipper hand over Cabcharge documents three times, and Mr Ashby believed Mr Slipper was doing “something wrong” or “questionable” or “irregular”.

    In other evidence heard by the court Mr Slipper claims that Mr Ashby’s decision to give his legal claim to the media in April was “severely and unfairly burdensome” and was done for an “illicit purpose” of harming his political career and helping boost the political fortunes of rival Mal Brough.

  257. Justice Steven Rares today told Mr Ashby’s barrister Michael Lee SC that allegations of Mr Slipper’s “questionable conduct in relation to travel” as a breach of Mr Ashby’s work contract were serious claims to make in a court, then to withdraw.

    Lawyers are subject to strict professional conduct regulations which can see them disciplined for making serious allegations in a court pleading without a proper basis.

    Justice Rares said no evidence had been provided to support the allegations of fraud or misconduct by Mr Slipper.
    “How do you get to a breach of contract let alone reporting it to the police?” Justice Rares asked.

    “How is it going to be proved there’s anything wrong (with the use of Cabcharges)… it may well be wrong, I don’t know,” Justice Rares said.

    “(You alleged) It was a suspected crime, that’s the point,” Justice Rares said.

    Mr Ashby alleges he saw Mr Slipper hand over Cabcharge documents three times, and Mr Ashby believed Mr Slipper was doing “something wrong” or “questionable” or “irregular”.

    In other evidence heard by the court Mr Slipper claims that Mr Ashby’s decision to give his legal claim to the media in April was “severely and unfairly burdensome” and was done for an “illicit purpose” of harming his political career and helping boost the political fortunes of rival Mal Brough.

    Mr Slipper says that by providing to the media and subsequently abandoning these claims Mr Ashby and his lawyer Michael Harmer intended to expose Mr Slipper to maximum degree of vilification and to cause maximum damage to his reputation and give political advantage to the Liberal National Party and Mal Brough.

    Michael Harmer and Mr Ashby deny these claims.

    Mr Slipper alleges Mr Ashby acted improperly when he calculated that his lurid allegations would achieve “significant coverage”, but Mr Ashby says this claim of abuse of process will fail if Justice Rares rules Mr Ashby was only seeking to “have his rights vindicated”.

    Mr Slipper also alleges Mr Ashby allegations went beyond what was necessary, that they were “gratuitous, salacious and immaterial”.

    And the only purpose was to give sensational allegations made in the originating application an appearance of reliability.

    The abuse of process case is continuing in the Federal Court today. It is expected to finish this afternoon.

  258. So says Tony when it comes to policies. Problem is that many are saying, yes you do, if you want our support.

    We want to see those policies. We want to see some details. We want to know what you intend to ditch to pay for them.

    We want to hear more than what you intend to demolish. We want to hear how you intend to pay for the demolition work.

    Yes, Tony you do not have to, but it might be prudent to do so,

    Tony you have no more shots in your armour, to do anything else.

    Many will not be that interested to know you have a happy family or not. A family by the way, you appear to spend long periods of t6ime away from. Then they say absence makes the heart grow fonder.

    Yes, el gordo, you are indeed correct. Tony does not have to do anything. The public also does not have to support him.

  259. My day has been made. Just got a email; from Margie Abbott. talking about her husband.

    It is sure full on. Wonder what the internal polling is saying. I think we can safely make a guess.

  260. Dear Florence
    During Tony’s 18 years as a Member of Parliament, I have never sought to make speeches or give public comment. There’s one politician in our family and that’s Tony.

    However, today at a lunch in Western Sydney, I spoke for the first time about our lives together and the type of man Tony is. Click here to read my speech.

    Tony and I have been married 24 years. In that time, we’ve raised three daughters, been paying off a mortgage, juggled work and family, and experienced our share of laughter and tears like most families. He is the most optimistic person I know. So I feel it’s important to address the Labor Party’s very deliberate campaign to personally attack Tony. Click here to read my opinion piece.

    As the woman who knows him best and who has lived with Tony Abbott for 24 years, I want you to know more about the Tony Abbott I know. He grew up with three sisters, he has three daughters, he is supported by a female Deputy in Julie Bishop and he has always had a female chief of staff. Labor’s campaign should stick to the issues rather than engage in personal attacks.

    I am, along with our daughters Bridget, Louise and Frances, very proud of Tony. Together, we know that he has what it takes to be a good Prime Minister for all Australians.


    Margie Abbott

    P.S. – you can also watch a video of my speech here.

  261. Yes, they are indeed desperate. What else could explain this campaign.

    But today’s carpet bombing of the public about what a gentle and sensitive soul the Opposition Leader really is takes things to a new level, at least in contemporary Australian politics.

    The couple were featured prominently in News Ltd tabloids and appeared together on Channel Nine this morning before Mrs Abbott gave an afternoon speech to a Liberal Party women’s group in Penrith that was televised live on Sky.

    It is a clear admission, albeit indirect, that the perception that female voters have a problem with Mr Abbott is a stark reality.

    There is no other reason why the tightly controlled media management that surrounds the Abbott camp would permit such an exercise……………………..

  262. Cu, what a load of bs from Margie Abbott. Sorry Margie, and I respect your opinion of your husband and he may indeed be the shining little angel on top of the Xmas tree, but as most people realize the person at work is not necessarily the person at home. However, irrespective of whether he helps with the dishes and pulls out the vacuum on occasions this is irrelevant to his policies…

  263. ‘Problem is that many are saying, yes you do, if you want our support.’

    Who are these ‘many’? Have a link?

  264. ‘The Liberals think the election is in the bag. This is all about Tony surviving till the election.’

    That is essentially correct.

  265. nope el gordo, just going on the polls trends and what I consider commonsense.

    No link, just my gut feeling.

    Unlike many, I believe the public is not as stupid as some think.

    In the long run they generally get it right. Might take time, but they do get there.

    As they say, one can fool all the people some of the time, One can fool some all the time. One cannot fool all the people all the time.

  266. Tom and,

    So, is this what I’ve heard this morning, tabots wife has gone on air to say the he ‘made an honest woman’ of her?

    Did she bring an iron?

    😆 😆 😆

    Plus what else do you want in a woman…

  267. On the Liberals thinking that they have it in the bag, then why the that internal polling might tell a different story.

  268. It seems quite odd, that a self confessed private person such as Margie would suddenly and without known cause suddenly “write” this article. Or did she? Surely it couldn’t have all been stage managed..

  269. Min, writing a article one could understand. What we have seen today is on the front pages of the papers. daybreak on the TV, interviews and a speech were all the women ion the family turn up. Over kill one would say.

    I would say the idea was stolen from the wives of the USA contenders having their wives speak on their behalf.

    Also could be back to the past when they attempted to bring the Abbott family out, to show up the fact that the PM is unmarried and does not have children.

    Whatever the reason, I believe it has fallen flat. Better idea would have the wife showing up more often, over time. Might have got away with that.

    We have the PM today, hosting a forum for the digital future and what we can expect. Looking once again to the future. Looking a ways we can use the NBN for the benefit of all. Did one know that you can get a app that keeps a record of the rows you knit, while knitting. The PM is knitting a teddy bear at this time. Just a useless but nice aside.

  270. Min, if we look at history, no election is in the bag, especially this far out. Hewson was and should have won, the unlosable election. Beasley should have, Howard should have lost one, Tampa saved him.

    In fact Menzies at one lection won when if looked as if he would go out. A couple of Russian spies saved his bacon.

    It is never over until the fat lady sings or when the votes are counted.

  271. what a great grogs gamut.
    so the universal opinion is that internal polling for Abbott is atrocious.
    may as well start rehearsing the lines now, “i have the support of my party; leading the party is a gift of the elected members and senators; i will lead the party to the next election”

    get ready journalists, the starting gun for the liberal leadership race starts next week.
    and how can julie bishop keep her job, as the deputy to 3 a 4th would be too many and as well the wa liberals are revolting.

    As well as revolting, the wa liberals are also challenging bishop’s leadership on the wheat deregulation bills

  272. ‘Unlike many, I believe the public is not as stupid as some think.’

    We agree on that, at least.

  273. ‘Or did she? Surely it couldn’t have all been stage managed..’

    It has been orchestrated at the Limited Nooze offices…a blatant attempt to have their man stay in front of Talcum.

  274. Has any one noticed this about the Jones drama

    Jones scandal claims first scalp
    The Alan Jones scandal has claimed its first victim with Woolworths executive and prominent Liberal party member, Simon Berger, tending his resignation last night.
    Mr Berger was the master of ceremonies at the Sydney University Young Liberals dinner two weeks ago at which Mr Jones made his offensive remarks about Julia Gillard’s father dying of shame over his daughters’ lies.
    Mr Berger also arranged the auction of a jacket, signed by Mr Jones and made from a chaff bag. Labor was equally furious at this action given Mr Jones had used his radio show to demand Ms Gillard be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. ,/blockquote>

    Read more:

  275. From Ronnie Williams who some might remember from the High Court case..

    Breaking News: Perth southern suburbs school chaplain & ‘contemporary’ church pastor charged with underage sex offences

    A Perth school chaplain has been charged over an alleged sexual relationship he had with a teenage student at a southern suburbs school.

    Police spokeswoman Susan Usher said child abuse squad detectives today laid 11 charges against a 33-year-old man.

    It will be alleged that between July and September last year the man, then 32, and victim, who was 16 at the time, were involved in a consensual sexual relationship.

    The alleged offences took place while the man was in a position of authority at the school as a chaplain and a pastor of a contemporary church.

    The man is facing eight charges of indecent dealing with a child of 16 years or over by a person in authority, two charges of sexual penetration of a child of 16 years or over by a person in authority and one count of sexual penetration without consent…

    Child abuse squad detectives charged the 33-year-old southern suburbs man, who is also a pastor of a church, with several sexual offences including eight counts of indecent dealing with a child of or over 16 by a person in authority and one count of sexual penetration without consent.

  276. This from the IT forum hosted by PM today

    “Australia Post CEO Ahmed Fahour said the government-owned enterprise was embracing technology to offer new services to customers.
    Mr Fahour said the postal agency would launch a digital mailbox service later this month.

    He said it would open a series of collection outlets across Australia to be in operation around the clock.

    ” … You will go to a parcel locker and a four-digit number will appear on your mobile phone or on your email, and you can pick it up any time of the day or night instead of you having to be at home or at work for that,” Mr Fahour said.”

  277. So the young Liberal thinks his offenssive stunt was a nuance. Where was the sublety and how the chaff bag coat referred to himself seems a bit far fetched

    “Mr Berger said the chaff bag reference was a joke against himself at an undergraduates’ gathering.

    “In a a raging controversy following Alan Jones’ remark and in the face of a cyber campaign, such nuances get lost,” he said.”

  278. ……………Margie had to reach back a fair way for the bit about Tony choking up at a movie. The said film, The Year My Voice Broke, was made 25 years ago and is set in the tightly bound Australia of 1962. Figures, really.

    Anyway, we really need a series of these sort of exposes to grant the form its real punch.

    Is big gentle Joe Hockey, in fact, a wildman stud in the sack?

    Does droning Wayne Swan transform into a silver-tongued devil in the privacy of his hot tub?

    We hardly dare imagine what formerly unknown character traits Bronwyn Bishop might reveal away from the chamber of the House of Representatives, but you can bet it would be a ratings triumph.

    What secrets, if any, are there yet to be told about the fascinating life of Peter Slipper?

    And Christopher Pyne….please, please tell us he has a covert existence as a cigarette-smoking cowboy roaming the range, cussing and expectorating and jangling his spurs!

  279. I am sure that if you looked hard enough, you could find comments from women in love, say what a great man/husband/father/son such men as Castro, Mussolini, Marcos, Hitler, Hussein, Stalin etc etc were .
    Doesn’t mean any one of them should be PM of Australia, and neither should Abbott!
    Sorry Margie.


  280. Had quite a few chuckles and head nods thru this…as did my partner Stacey.

    We do have the ability to watch one show whilst recording another which we watch later, being in the 21st century.

    Unlike Abbott and co it seems.

    But then, we’ve always known that:

    FRIDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2012
    Abbott shows everyone he’s worried

    It is rare that a political party would so obviously reveal the fruits of its internal polling and focus group work as the Liberal Party did today with the full court press of coverage provided via its friendly media publishers,

    In an “exclusive” advertisement for the Liberal Party interview with Gemma Jones (she of the bullshit beat ups about asylum seekers, articles about people struggling to pay the carbon tax even before it had started, and big scoops on the soles of Julia Gillard’s shoes) Tony Abbott’s wife, Margie, was out to say how great he was. Despite the story essentially being as newsworthy as “Wife loves Husband”, ran big with it:

    God I do love a diverse media.

    Just think how bad the internal polling and focus group are that it has reached this stage.

    Obviously as well the reason for the stories coming out today is that this weekend is a Newspoll weekend.


    And here’s the lines that are meant to persuade us:

    “Just to give you an idea of how it happens in the Abbott household, I’ll be grabbing the remote control saying `Can I watch the footy, please?’ he will be saying `Oh, but I would really like to watch Downton Abbey,”‘ Mrs Abbott said.

    I mean wow. It’s really that bad that they needed to evoke one of the highest rating TV shows? Really? Geez, those focus groups must have been hideous – talk about aiming for the very middle of the middle ground. I’m surprised she didn’t mention that he often walks around the house singing Adele’s “Someone Like You”.

    Aside from the fact the footy and Downton Abbey are never on at the same time (so perhaps Tony is downloading season 3 on Bit Torrent and wants to watch it while the footy is on) who gives a shit? If we’ve reached the point where talking about someone’s favourite TV shows is meant to give insight into their inner self and is deserving of being treated as news, then we might as well give up the whole thing as a joke. Sure put this in the Weekender Inside section, or Women’s Weekly, but this is now Front Page News?

    Even The Oz which didn’t have the story on its front page, chipped in with Dennis Shanahan in an amazing coincidence writing an article on (I kid you not):

    What about the Prime Minister’s problem with men?
    From:The Australian
    October 05, 2012 12:00AM
    Subtle Dennis, very subtle.

    And next up in the advertorial is Margie Abbott appearing on Chris Kenny’s Sky News show this Saturday. That in itself shows not only how desperate they Liberal Party is given they have reached a point where they think that Kenny’s show would actually attract an audience worth getting her to appear on (yeah it’s the must-watch show for undecided voters), but also that they have had to pick out the most clearly Liberal Party friendly “journalist” to tell Margie’s story.

    But the real upshot in all of this is that Abbott has revealed he is worried and that he is as weak-kneed when it comes to bad polls as was the ALP under Rudd.

    Abbott has shown everyone that he has been badly wounded by the ALP’s attacks. How depressing must it be for back bench Liberal Party MPs to realise that their leader is so worried about Newspoll that a year away from an election he has to get his wife to do some repair work for him? Kimberly Ramplin on Twitter nicely pointed out that back in 2003 the ALP paid for an insert in the Women’s Weekly featuring Bob Carr and his wife, but that was:

    a) A paid advertisement (here, did the advertising gratis)

    b) In the same month as the election. – Wives always become more prominent in elections or when a new leader takes office.

    This is purely a case of a leader shitting himself about the polls. A leader whose party is leading easily in the polls.

    That should scare the hell out of Liberal Party members when they think of what a Tony Abbott government would be like..

    Much more here:…/…hes-worried.html

    A big six for Grog.

    Well said.



    Patricia, Truth Seeker, Talk Turkey…rev up those poetry minds…this is gonna be one hilarious weekend…political satire lives!

    Can’t wait for the political cartoons…and Talking Pictures on Insiders.

    Hope Baron Murdoch lets his cartoonists outa the bunker.


  281. I thought this was worth a laugh

    Some good advice from twitter – @fairerfields: Help Tony Abbott be with the women who love him. Vote ALP so he can spend more time with Margie & the kids. #auspol

  282. Of course is that Labor dirt file and the PM milking her father’s death for all it is worth, that is the problem.

    Why that handbag brigade, or as some say hit quad that is not playing fair and picks on poor Tony.

    Of course it could not be Tony’s continual negativity, lying and lack of policies that could be the problem

    No, the public would not make that mistake. It is all her fault, that lying so and so.

    A few pretty pictures with the family is all that is needed. You all know, that woman, the one I cannot bring myself to call PM, cannot do that, as she does not have a family.

  283. The trolls seem to have disappear. Suspect that today’s events might have unnerved some.

    Why worry about polls that today mean little.

    Was there the usual carbon tax scare, stunt today, or did he give it a miss.

  284. If one wants a laugh, watch LateLine, especially I think Kelly O’Dwyer, that took Costello’s seat. She can sure talk.

    Terrible how Labor is using the gender card,

    Emma did try.

  285. One cannot say after today, that the media is going out of it’s way to support Abbott. How other could one explain so many media outlets featuring Abbott and his family. One could not say, coincidence.

  286. Kelly O’Dwyer said on Lateline that Tony’s problems were because of Labor’s smear campaign, and then went on to proudly announce that it was she who invented the term “handbag hit squad.” What an idiot.

  287. silkworm, after watching LateLine and 7.30, it hit me, they have a full blown election campaign underway. They think that they can accused the PM of playing the gender card.

    If so, they would have to be the most arrogant [arty that this country has ever seen.

    It was pointed out to them yesterday, example after example where they have treated the PM in a atrocious manner, which they do not appear to acknowledge.

    They truly appear to be live they can spin the most outlandish propositions and the public will swallow it.

    The only explanation one could give for the behaviour of Abbott and his ilk yesterday, is that they believe their own spin.

    The rant of Kelly and her dive into how bad Labor is and that it i Labor that has to tell us where the money is coming from, not them that said it all. This occurs every time they are asked a question.

    I believe the saga continues today.

    Yesterday we had the press, full front pages and up to four page spread. We had the missus on nine and Sky. We had that dinner out in the western suburbs. There was also a radio interview. Did not say what station. I take it was not Jones, as they would have said so,

    This morning, another breakfast show.

    Well they did cause much mirth on most TV shows last night. The Project had real fun with iot, CAssidy joining in the ridicule, because that is what occurred.

    Not like last week, no Tony from Friday to mid morning Monday.

  288. Did one get the feeling yesterday of deja vu.

    Are we with Abbott, going to get a rerun of the Presidential elections.

    For political spouses to enter the political fray in this way is rare in Australia, but much more common in the US.

    President Barack Obama’s wife, Michelle, is campaigning actively in the current US election.

    But what Margie Abbott is doing bears a close similarity to the role being played by the wife of the Republican challenger.

    Mitt Romney, like the Liberal leader here, is struggling to win over women voters.

    Ann Romney had the job, in a keynote speech to the Republican Convention, of trying to change that.

    “Women, you need to wake up,” she said.

    “Mitt will be there for you. He will stand up for you. He will hear your voices.”

    Her other task was to answer critics who accuse her husband of favouring millionaires and being out of touch with average Americans.

  289. Margie Abbott and Sensitive Tony

    SO, MRS ABBOTT – “Margie” – you seem to be a tad upset at the so-called “personal” attacks on your husband?

    Well boo, bloody, boo hoo.

    For the past two years, Labor and swinging voters (and no doubt many small “l” Liberals) both women and men, have had to put up with the relentless, nasty, vicious and very ugly attacks on our Prime Minister that your husband has ignited and angrily fanned because of the petulant, spoilt brat, born-to-rule dummy spit he has raged ferociously with the Australian public since 2010, because the Independents didn’t give him the nod to be PM.

    Ever since your husband failed to convince the Independents he would be a man of his word and a decent Prime Minister, who would do everything they wanted – except of course ‘selling his arse’ (though he’d consider it) he has set about wrecking the place with his constant negativity; his talking down the economy; and his “No, no, no” to every forward thinking policy Labor has passed through the Parliament and implemented ― despite your husband’s schoolyard tantrums.

  290. CU, well said.

    And just because Margie loves him, doesn’t mean anyone else has to.
    And she “gets him” like others get crabs or a carbuncle on the arse.

    And when my wife and I watched them on the Today show, the way they were sitting said to us that she might be the reason that he can’t stand any other women telling him what to do.
    He looked like a naughty little boy hiding behind his mummy while she explained that he really wasn’t a naughty little boy…just misunderstood.

    Not helping Margie, at least not Tony!

    Cheers 😦 😉 😆

  291. Silkworm, re the “handbag hit squad”..where were the journos who should have been saying what a bloody stupid sexist comment… handbags indeed..grrr!!

  292. From Michelle Grattan, who it seems after a brief fling with fair commentary has gone back to being part of the Tony Abbott cheer squad..

    FOLLOWING the example of US Republican candidate Mitt Romney’s wife, Ann, Margie Abbott has delivered a vigorous personal testimonial to her husband, in which she condemned the ”gender card” being played by his opponents.

    Excuse me Margie? But what other than playing the “gender card” are you doing?

    Margie Abbott’s carefully considered scripted remarks are exactly that..she is playing the gender card. Loving father and hubby..who gives a flying fck.

  293. ‘…she is playing the gender card. Loving father and hubby..who gives a flying fck.’

    They needed to make the monk more human and Nooze is doing well in reinventing the man.

  294. El gordo, they tried it once before with the Women’s Weekly (I think it was) article. It didn’t work because Abbott’s actions and opinions contradict the make-over image that they’re attempting to sell.

  295. Min

    I read this morning that Abbott has hired a new media advisor specifically for the wife and kids. so far she has done well, all that free advertising dressed up as “news”

    ‘The blitzkrieg of love is in fact another very determined, calculated, carefully timed (just before the next polling cycle) political counter-attack. It coincides with the employment in the Coalition leader’s office of a new media adviser, Jude Donnelly, whose job is, in part, to handle media relations for ”Margie and the girls”.

    Read more:

    After reading a bit about Donnelly, I wonder if Jude suggested to Margie the line about Margie wanting to watch the footy and Abbott Downton .
    Was the footy AFL, something Donnelly knows about, was it NRL what Sydney battlers follow, or was it Rugby, the footy Abbott gave Hockey the black eye? One thing it probably wasn’t Soccer/football unless of course they follow the UK premier league.

  296. Min,

    in which she condemned the ”gender card” being played by his opponents.

    Excuse me Margie? But what other than playing the “gender card” are you doing?

    Exactly, she’s being wheeled out so as to play “the gender card”. Same with the daughters.

    The Liberal Spin Machine, I’m sure, gave her this line to use about “Labor playing the gender card”. As usual what we’re seeing is more #Right-Wing Projection from the Party of Spin. They make no attempt to even mask this tactic, and they play it time after time. Talking of playing things.

  297. Cuppa
    Witha media advisor just for Margie and the girls, Abbott and Credlin sure are worried about the polls.

    Is Abbott a LIAR, he claimed Margie just wanted to get involved so how about admitting when Jude Donnelly was hired? Which came about first, Margie or Jude?
    Who arranged for the ‘angel’ team, Margie or Jude? Was it discussed over brekkie between Margie and Tony or did Jude suggest that Tony bring it up with Margie?

    so many questions the msm could ask. So thank you Leonore Taylor for writing up the most newsworthy bit about the most unnewsworthy publicity blitz this week.

  298. Sue is SportsBet (note product placement promo) taking bets on which “footie” the Abbott family has a “domestic” over.

    I reckon 100 to 1 on it being Soccer football.

  299. ‘Abbott’s actions and opinions contradict the make-over image that they’re attempting to sell.’

    All he has to do is keep his foot out of mouth and the reinvention should work this time.

  300. Sue, wonder if that adviser is going to help his daughter with her modelling career.

    Last night, the Drum summed it up well, They are addressing the wrong problem. It is not that Abbott hates woman, it is that he is too aggressive, negative and needs to win.

    Wifie acknowledge this with the kayak story, Sh bought one ne so they could have more time together. Settled for a two seater, as one each would mean they would always be competing.

    Drum raised the prospect that it i because of the aggression and negativity, that women have turned off him.

    Bought up Keating as an example. Pointed out he was not popular with the woman. Would like to challenge that, as I always liked Keating. That is another story.

    Yes Keating was aggressive but he was not negative and did have good worthwhile policies, that we can be thankful he put in place.

    Yes, aggression and negativity will turn women off quickly, but the men will not be far behind them.

    The makeover will not work. Will not plaster over the cracks that are rapidly emerging.

    Keating survived, as he had substance. Abbott will not, as he is an empty vessel with nothing but naked ambition.

    Drum also pointed out that Mrs.Abbott needs to be aware, once you put the family of show, one cannot reverse the decision.

  301. To take just one example, this is what the Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, said when the Coalition leader was ejected from Parliament in August.

    “Well, I think it is publicly rather well known that Mr Abbott and I do not get along … Whether that’s because I am a woman or whether that’s because I win the arguments with him I think is a matter for others to make their summation … it does seem to me that he is not very comfortable with capable women and he obviously hasn’t shown the respect that all of us are required to, whoever is holding the Speaker’s chair, if we are going to actually make the Parliament operate properly.”

    Combined with the kerfuffle over whether Abbott, as a university student, did or did not punch the wall beside the face of a political rival, there was a real fear within the Coalition that the Labor attack was working.

    Could be that the women he has problems with are his equal. This he cannot stand.

    Abbott has problems with women. Many just do not like him. Why, could be open to many explanations, that all come back to Abbott himself. Abbott;s problem is that men might just take their lead from the women.

    Gillard has problems with the male vote. Maybe it is truer to say, men have problems with Gillard, because of her gender.

    If this is the case, it is the men that have the problem. If they do not address it, they will be replacing a good PM with one they will soon find badly wanting.

    it is up to the men. There is little a woman PM can do, to turn this situation around.

  302. Greg Jericho wrote:

    And here’s the lines that are meant to persuade us:

    “Just to give you an idea of how it happens in the Abbott household, I’ll be grabbing the remote control saying `Can I watch the footy, please?’ he will be saying `Oh, but I would really like to watch Downton Abbey,”‘ Mrs Abbott said.

    I mean wow. It’s really that bad that they needed to evoke one of the highest rating TV shows? Really? Geez, those focus groups must have been hideous – talk about aiming for the very middle of the middle ground. I’m surprised she didn’t mention that he often walks around the house singing Adele’s “Someone Like You”.

    Aside from the fact the footy and Downton Abbey are never on at the same time (so perhaps Tony is downloading season 3 on Bit Torrent and wants to watch it while the footy is on) who gives a shit?

    If this is true, that Downton Abbey and the football were never on at the same time, then this means that MARGIE IS A LIAR, just like her husband.

  303. The aggression has served him well thus far, catapulting him to an opinion poll lead that insulates him from internal rivals, and stirring a sense of crisis and chaos that has, until recently, left Labor wrong-footed and unable to control the debate.

    But suddenly, Labor was using his aggression against him just as the Coalition leader was trying to turn it down a notch.

    And hence we discover, yet again, ”The Real Tony”, who is a ”softie”, who makes his daughters cubby houses and who disagrees with his wife about television viewing because she wants to watch the footy and he insists on Downton Abbey, ”a great program about things that are best in our nature”.

  304. Abbott out this weekend. PC ABC 24 Not like last weekend, where he did not appear until 3.50, then only to reach 2 sentence written statement.

    With O’Farrell

  305. If SHE had said that HE has been a little difficult at times; and that HE now has a better understanding of women; and that his therapist agrees; I might have believed HER.

  306. ‘ANTARCTIC sea ice has expanded to cover the largest area recorded since satellite mapping began more than three decades ago, in stark contrast to this year’s record melt on the northern pole.

    ‘The expansion continues a trend of increasing Antarctic sea ice cover of about 1 per cent a decade and is at odds with predictions of climate change models that continue to forecast a long-term decline.’

    Graham Lloyd in the Oz

  307. Who woulda thought it…
    “His one-metre-long penis is also intact so we can conclude that this was a male,” he said.
    I wish…. 😀

  308. As my son pointed out, how could anyone believe a woman who would marry Tony Abbott?

    Saw Margie saying He was honest…. He doesn’t even believe that himself BwaHaHaHaHa 😆 😆
    Sad really! 😦 😦 😦

  309. ……..where were the journos who should have been saying what a bloody stupid sexist comment… handbags indeed..grrr!!

    Min, all I can say is that i hope the handbags are full of bricks! 😯

    And the LIealots did a WW gig, in which the would-be PM made the greatest gift gaffe. I have a feeling ironing boards may have made an appearance,. too.

  310. El gordo, I find it extraordinary how the hate-filled right despise any hate coming from the left. They demand a monopoly.

  311. If these texts have been filed in the courts, but not made public, how come we are reading, selective quotes all over the media.

    Last week there was the threats of the emails, lodge in court towards the end of the week, and now in the public arena.

    Ashby is still, IMHO, mounting this case outside the courts.

    Scores of Slipper sexts revealed

    Ashby files ribald texts with Slipper

    THE man who has accused Peter Slipper of sexual harassment first advised the suspended parliamentary speaker to manoeuvre for the position well before he started working in his office.

    Fairfax Media has obtained 200 pages of new text messages that reveal James Ashby and Peter Slipper had a ribald relationship with frequent use of coarse language, discussions about Mr Ashby’s sexuality, dismissive references to female genitalia and political war gaming to ”destroy” Mr Slipper’s rival, Mal Brough.

    The documents also reveal Mr Ashby developed a long and close relationship with Mr Slipper and his family before he was employed as a media adviser in December.

    Peter Slipper. Photo: Andrew Meares
    The new evidence shows Mr Slipper was supportive of Mr Ashby’s sexual orientation, sending him a message that said: ”You motivated me to see some ladies who have gay kids seeking a change in [gay marriage laws].”

    In an another exchange, Mr Slipper told the openly gay Ashby: ”What I like bout you is your absolute honesty and openness. By comparison we politicians live in a closed secret world.”

    The text messages were filed by Mr Ashby’s legal team in the Federal Court on Friday but have not yet been made public………..

  312. Is not love wonderful. Such admiration.

    It is just not fair that Labor, especially their influential women, pick on him. How dare they believe, they are his equal.

    Would love to see mother interviewed. Maybe that is the next step. We have had the wife, daughters sisters but not mum.

    OPPOSITION Leader says campaign of personal attacks against him can be sheeted home to Prime Minister Julia Gillard after Labor frontbencher Nicola Roxon says he still has an “issue with capable wome…………

  313. Ashby files ribald texts with Slipper

    I’d be interested to see those texts in their correct context CU. I’m sure many men over about 45 here who have spent any time working in predominately male workplaces can tell of the rough & ribald nature of the workplace in years gone by.

    For example, one boss I worked for in the late 80’s would greet someone he hadn’t seen for a while with, “G’day Frank you old bastard. Tell me, do you still take it up the @#$&.”

    I haven’t heard much of this sort of language in the workplace for a couple of decades now, but it was certainly common back then.

    People may be shocked by what may in those texts, but context is important to understanding what was really going on. The more I hear of this stuff, the less I believe there was any real OR perceived sexual harassment going on…

  314. Bacchus, it is going to come down to who was grooming who, What we have seen so far, can be read two ways,

    The question I would like to ask, was would a gay man of the world allow the communications to get this far. He is not a vulnerable teenager, He was not a young man, working through his sexuality.

    It appears the communications started long before he joined Slipper’s staff. Many months before.

    I am sure that is the question the Judge will ask.

    I am sure, he will also ask why he was in Slippers bedroom and ask to be taken to Europe, even paying his own fare.

    What is clear, Mr, Slipper comes across as a lonely ma, Whether that is his own fault, or the result of many years of a campaign, that is in the public arena, against him by the Opposition Party,

    Do we have another Groeth, or whatever his name was, in the Rudd Ute affair.

    What I do know, this information should not be in the public arena. I believe the Judge could have released it, if he seen it as needed. It apparently was not.

    We have this matter.being manipulated, IMHO by the media.

    We have Margie assault on the PM, fully orchestrated and supported by the media.

  315. Mr. Brandis does protest too much. He definitely protests to early. We do not know what is alleged is true or as he says.

    ABC 24.

    The demonisation of Slipper continues. Whether it is warranted or not, we will in the future see.

    What is apparent, the Opposition appear to be coming more desperate every day.

    They are grasping at every straw that arise, no matter how far stretched the arguments, to make some relation to the PM. It is about mounting guilt by association. problem is that much of the noise they are attempting top raised as a diversionary tactic, has little connection to the PM.

  316. ‘these people of course have the right to express their views to anybody who wants to listen, about any subject they want, including Alan Jones and his radio show. They also have the right and plenty of choice; freedom of choice, to listen to any of the hundreds, in this digital age, thousands of radio programs available to them’.

    ‘What they do not have the right to do is on the one hand decide for our listeners who and what they are going to hear on the radio station they choose to listen to, and on the other hand decide for Australian based companies which media outlets they will or won’t use to advertise their products and services. They do not have the right to interfere with freedom of choice and they do not have the right to attempt to censor – not Alan Jones, not this radio network, not the people who choose to listen to it and not the companies who choose to advertise on it.

    ‘What we are seeing here is 21st Century censorship, via cyber-bullying.’

    All advertising on The Alan Jones Breakfast Show will be suspended until further notice.

  317. No Cu 2GB is has just temporarily pulled advertising from Jones’s show and blamed an unfair social media campaign for it in what must be one of the most unbelievable play of the victim’s card in Australian media history.

  318. Möbius, they’ve provided a pathetic excuse. Why not leave it up to the individual advertisers? After all, 2GB made the decision to persevere with the program.

  319. It appears that social media does have some power, that can easily be used by all,

    Maybe we are moving towards a true democracy.

    2 GB at the end of the day, is a business. They are not an arm of any political party or movement.

    It the customers do not like what they have to sell, they will walk away. All that happens

    The are supported by advertisers, and what they want, counts at the end of the day.

    The business model of 2GB look shaky at this time. Need to forget the politics and get back to the business. .

  320. The National Broadband Network is truly the Nationals’ Broadband Network as it has been lifted straight from the 2005 Page Research Centre’s position paper into telecommunications chaired by then Senator-elect Fiona Nash, Senator Barnaby Joyce, the Leader of the Nationals in the Senate, said today.

    “How could we disagree with something that is quite evidently our idea,” he said … “It is vitally important that the National Broadband Network gets to the corners of our country where the market has failed, at a price that is both affordable and a service that is comparable.”

    Senator Nash said that the Nationals’ plan recommended that the government retain a stake in the telecommunications infrastructure by making a capital investment in a broadband network.

    “A business consortium in 2004 approached the Page Research Centre with a preliminary costing of $7 billion to roll out the infrastructure with a view to it being completed in five years. The plan then was to roll out fibre optic cable which the government would lease to service providers including Telstra. With the government controlling this part of the infrastructure, it would remove some of anticompetitive practices and create a transparent pricing regime.

    “As I said in 2005, rolling out fibre optic infrastructure across Australia would be like a Glass Snowy, Mr Rudd has used the same analogy today.”

    To me what this statement by Joyce and Nash at the time illustrates is that the NBN does have the potential to be a bi-partisan policy, supported by all the major parties, but that that possibility is currently being bedeviled by the extremely negative political environment which Australia is suffering under. Certainly these statements are a far cry from the ridiculously inaccurate claims which Nationals Leader Warren Truss has recently been making about the NBN.

    Why, Nationals voters should be asking their representatives, did the Nationals abandon their support for this kind of initiative, falling in line with the Liberal Party’s views on the issue? Why didn’t the Nationals push for a compromise situation, where the NBN policy could have come a little closer to the Liberal viewpoint while maintaining the policy elements which Labor, the Greens and the Nationals all agreed on? It’s a decade-long project worth tens of billions of dollars, after all. It seems appropriate that the effort be made.

  321. One sees this every day in question time. Oh how they squeal when the government dare criticise them. The whines and wails can be heard clearly over the noise that arise from that side of the house.

    Why is it that conservatives cry out ‘stop attacking me’ when people begin to question their views or motives? George Bludger comments

    OVER THE PAST YEAR, we’ve had a plethora (of mainly male) conservative politicians and their supporters play the victim when their comments or actions are questioned:

    ‘What about what people say about me?’ they say; or ‘I am not a racist’; or ‘I have women friends’ and so on. From Alan “her old man recently died… of shame” Jones; to Grahame “kicking her to death” Morris; to Scott “I demand an apology” Morrison; to Tony “she won’t lie down and die” Abbott ― they have an uncanny ability to exist on two parallel universes: the one where they have feelings, spouses, children, loved ones, personal stories and tragedies, sensitivities, hopes and needs; and the other, where they view any opponent as fair game, without these qualities or connections, without regard for their own personal situations and stories, and attack them viciously at all levels……

  322. Now we have 2GB crying about bullies in cyberspace. They are once again crying that free speech is at risk,

    Now are they saying all those who signed the petition and sent emails to the advertisers do not have the right to say what they like under free speech.

    I do believe one has the right to say as they like under free speech, but that is the argument they use for Bolt and Jones to say as they like.

    I do not see what is wrong when one identifies a wrong, and demands that it be corrected.

    So, I take it, taking in account what 2GB has said today, only they have the right to free speech, while at the same time restricting the rights of those who objects.

    Yes, we do have the right to object that we do not like the depths into the gutter that politics has sunk. Many do not care who is to blame. Many are saying it is time to draw a line in the sand.,

    Yes, Mr Abbott, leaders are responsible for how the conduct of those they lead. It is time for you to take up this responsibility,

    2GB, through Mr. Jones has been handing it out for years. The worms have turned and are now lobbying it back. Time for 2 GB to rethink about where they are at.

    Some call it karma, Yes, 2GB and Mr. Jones, you can say and do as you please. Just be big enough to take the consequences. There will be consequences as the last week has shown.

  323. What we are seeing here is 21st century censorship, via cyber-bullying.”

    Actually, I beg to differ.

    What has in fact happened in the last week has been the rise of decent Australia saying enough is enough. And yes, sponsors like Gerry Harvey have publicly worried that by withdrawing from the Jones program they are taking part in a lynch mob, but they misunderstand. What you are actually doing, Mr Harvey, is refusing to sponsor any further “lynch-mob radio”.

    All you need to do is listen to Jones on a good day. As the Bully-in-Chief, Jones’ major exercise every day is to line up the day’s targets and then excoriate everything about them and everything they stand for, impugning the worst possible motives to their every action, before putting them up on the wall and inviting the mob to call him up to throw their own stones, which they gleefully do for hours on end, outdoing each other in their sneering, hooting derision.

    Sure, Jones does the whole thing under the guise of “journalism” and “fearless comment”, but the vibe of the whole thing is exactly like a lynch-mob as he masterfully whips the mob up into ever greater rage over any number of sins, including such outrages as trying to help the environment by lowering carbon emissions. It has also been noted that he is never so vicious as when the target is a woman.

    Most of Sydney has been aware of this for years without ever taking Jones seriously enough to do anything about it, but the Young Libs episode has changed that. For there, exposed, was the breathtakingly ugly essence of Jones.

    Not one of you reading this could ever bring yourself to say what he did about the PM’s father and yet Jones values are so twisted, so downright nasty, he could not only bring himself to say it, but actually think in an unguarded moment it was entertaining!

    And the response since, has been wonderful. Yes, yes, yes, no doubt Jones ratings will go up next time as the mob rush back to defend Alan, but this time decent Australia – which is to say the vast majority of the country – is watching closely. Which sponsors will be there with him? I don’t mean now. That is not the test. I mean six months and one year from now. Those sponsors are being watched. The sensible ones won’t touch the Jones show with a barge-pole.

  324. ………………………..Jones, and Ellis to a lesser extent, are ranting like frustrated old curmudgeons, condemning our female Prime Minister with a viciousness that is unbecoming of any journalist in Australia, let alone those in their autumn years.

    Laws? Well, as I said, just came across as a pompous old fool.

    We have for far too long tolerated the disgraceful ugliness in which mainstream media has descended over the past few years. Young and seasoned journalists, using their medium to spruik their own one-sided political opinions, yet rarely providing us with well-reasoned and sensible policy analysis; rarely, if ever, providing us with detailed and intelligent investigative journalism.

    If this is what our seasoned journalists are going to end up like, then God help us all ― because, believe me, they seem to heading that way.

    But, I’m an optimist ― I still have faith in the young ones.

    But I won’t hold my breath.

  325. And just because i had a laugh this morning, this from mp melham

    “The Liberal National MP Scott Buchholz, asked to table a carbon tax-inflated electricity bill, something the manager of government business, Anthony Albanese, doesn’t usually allow. This time, Albanese made an exception, on account of the fact that Buchholz was a ”good bloke”, he said.

    The manager of opposition business, Christopher Pyne, sputtered into life. ”Bloke is a sexist word!” he shrieked, and rose to make a point of order.

    ”The member opposite referred to [Buchholz] as a ‘bloke’. I put it to you, if I described one of the members over there as a ‘sheila’, I’d be accused of making a sexist remark so I ask him to withdraw it!”

    At which point Labor backbencher, Darryl Melham, shouted to Pyne, rather unhelpfully: ”Sit down ya sheila!”

    Read more:

  326. And this on some of the demographic results in the polls

    “Take age, for instance, age. Gillard is much more popular than Abbott among younger voters. The same recent Newspoll showed Gillard was rated the better PM among 18 to 34 year olds by a margin of 41 per cent to 35 per cent (almost the same as her gender advantage).

    Similarly Abbott was ahead of Gillard as better PM among those 50 and older by a margin of 40 per cent to 36 per cent. Age is just as big a factor as gender, despite the fact there are more women than men in the older age groups.

    The same is true of the location of voters. The same Newspoll reported that in the five state capital cities, excluding Hobart, Gillard led Abbott by a margin of 41 per cent to 36 per cent.

    Similarly, among non-capital city voters Abbott led Gillard by about the same margin, 41 per cent to 34 per cent. Finally, in Victoria, her home state, Gillard led Abbott by a huge 45 per cent to 33 per cent; while in Abbott’s home state of NSW, he led Gillard by a much smaller 39 per cent to 38 per cent.”

    Read more:

  327. ooh aaaah Tony may have some questions to walk out on today

    “A SENIOR Coalition frontbencher has been caught trying to secretly secure the vote of disgraced suspended Labor MP Craig Thomson in a damaging blow to Opposition Leader Tony Abbott’s public vow to never take his “tainted vote”

    It came on the same day that serial text-pest speaker Peter Slipper was forced to resign after admitting to making vile remarks about women’s genitalia – and 24 hours before Mr Abbott repeated his pledge to never accept Mr Thomson’s vote but admitting he would take Mr Slipper’s.”

  328. Note from Admin: if you want a Victoria Secret Gift Card, please feel free to click onto the title..otherwise, it’s spam that sneaked it’s way through. 😉

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