Open Thread XXVI

Here we can continue to talk about anything.

Previous Open Threads can be found in the Archives.

324 comments on “Open Thread XXVI

  1. So far, in our two years of being open, we’ve collected something like 35,000 spam comments in our spam folder. They are generally posted under archived topics, so they were never going to be read anyway. But still they come.

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  2. Miglo

    Our MSM must also prefer to read Russian advertisements, because not one of them is interested in this list on Kathy Jackson, as TOM R reflects

    “But this is the money quote

    Below is a breakdown:

    $4,860.72 – K. Koukavaos Consulting

    $36,867.46 – Neranto No. 10, for consultancy services

    $13,100 – Katherine Jackson direct, for Accommodation and travel HESTA

    $12,500 – Katherine Jackson direct, for postage and shipping. Apparently lots of shipping…

    $63,000 – Katherine Jackson direct, for an Honorarium payment

    $6,165 – Minifie Park Child Care Association, apparent staff benefits and uniforms

    $522,570 – Katherine Jackson direct, Key Management Personnel Compensation ”

    Not a bad amount of money flowing out of the HSU and for some reason the MSM finds it appropriate for Kathy Jackson. Well it must be all ok because the msm are still more interested in:
    Abetz and his smoking gun 🙂
    Tony Abbott, “people ars so unkind”, the polls say people don’t like him
    Julia Gillard won’t lie down and die

  3. AM this morning, Sabre Lane seems quite worked up about the Abetz “smoking gun”.
    And Sabre goes by the title “chief political journalist”, seems all you have to do is read Lieberal party briefings.

    Funny moment from the Senate Committee, it emerged, even though Nassios is on leave he is spending time in Victoria. The reason he never appeared before the Senate Hearings…..He was never asked to attend. 😆

    Abetz, who was responsible for the guest list?

  4. It speaks for itself. Thomson gives a speech yesterday strongly in favour of what Labor is doing in his electorate. Today this.

    Tony Abbott and Christopher Pyne scrambled for the exits in the House of Representatives this morning as suspended Labor MP Craig Thomson lent his “tainted” vote to

    Abbott and Pyne exited from the house. Abbott, what a stunt. Is Abbott the only one allows to do stunts. I suggest to him and Pyne leaving the chamber is a stunt. Does that mean every time Thomson votes with them, two will leave the room. I suggest where it counts, they will accept the vote.

    Abbott’s PC once again cut off tor real news.

  5. Interesting thought.

    In other words, for seven-eighths of the Christian era, the state did not give a damn about who was marrying whom. My own view on the matter is this: privatise marriage.

    What do I mean by that? Simply that the institution of marriage is, fundamentally, a private contract, voluntarily entered into by two adults. So why does the State need to get involved at all? In the comments that follow, I acknowledge—and will ruthlessly plagiarise—the brilliant work done by David Boaz, in Slate magazine, in 1997.

    Continue reading “To end the gay marriage debate: privatise matrimony” »

    BONBONERIE: The Punch on gay marriage

  6. Senator Carr before the senate hearings. Interesting to watych the likes of Birmingham trying to put Carr down.

    They are unbelievable the way the treat witnesses.

  7. Cu, and that is precisely what marriage is about..see the common usage “a contract of marriage”. It’s based on contract law.

    The State needs to become involved in it, because it is contract law.

    The entities which do not need to become involved are the religious organisations. We have had Civil Registations of marriages in Australia since 1856.

    With regard to marriage equality we currently have religious organisations saying who can and cannot enter into a civil contract and based solely on gender.

  8. Opposition has moved two suspension of standing orders already today. Thomson voted twice with Opposition.

  9. It’s all comedy capers…

    The Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott, and the manager of opposition business, Christopher Pyne, made for the doors but Mr Abbott was ordered back by the Speaker, Anna Burke, because it was too late to leave. His vote was counted.

    But a fleet-footed Mr Pyne made it out before being noticed by Ms Burke, thereby negating Mr Thomson’s vote.

  10. What changed this morning when the Coalition wanted to bring on a discussion over the proposed increase to the Government’s debt ceiling, and Labor tried to gag debate.

    Traditionally, crossbench MPs never back gag motions.

    So as Mr Thomson moved to vote for the Coalition, both the Opposition Leader and his manager of business tried to leave the chamber to cancel out his support.

    Mr Pyne made it out of the door to negate Mr Thomson’s vote but Mr Abbott could not escape in time and his vote was recorded.

    Labor then tried to bring its gag motion again, prompting a repeat of the farcical scenes.

    This time Mr Pyne found himself trapped in no man’s land when he failed to make it out of the door in time.

    But, like a batsman trying to make his ground, he gained the sanctuary of the Adviser’s Box – neutral ground in the House – so, again, his vote was not counted.

    In a statement issued after the events, Mr Pyne said he left the chamber “to negate the tainted vote of the Member for Dobell”.

    “The Coalition has taken the principled stand of refusing to accept his vote under any circumstances,” the statement said.

  11. Abbott will not take the vote under any circumstances. That is good. There will never be a no confidence motion under Abbott. He is denying himself the numbers to do so.

    Does anyone believe if he had the chance and it relied on the vote of Thomson, he would not as he say allowed it.

    All Abbott and Pyne have achieved, is that they have denied the voice of their electorate being not heard.

  12. But you never read in the Oz a line about the immaturity of grown adults racing for the doors, banging on the doors to flee the chamber, or prancing about in prissy-footed style so that they could land in the advisors’ box and avoid the count.
    It’s incredibly childish, worthy of Gilbert and Sullivan, the New Guinea parliament, or the Three Stooges.
    Yet it’s dressed up as a principled stand or a matter of principle, when it’s nothing more than banana republic stuff. (Abbott sprints for door to avoid Thomson’s tainted vote).
    The notion that Christopher Pyne is principled – when he can’t even remember who he sends emails to – is risible beyond laughable.
    At the same time Michelle Grattan seems vaguely perplexed in The mystery that is Abbott’s unpopularity as to why Abbott might be unpopular:

  13. This lady by the way is on senate hearings. She lined up with Mr. Abetz.

    Will everyone rush for the door the next time that Mary Jo Fisher votes in the Senate, and never mind that Abbott found it in his heart to support her and a plea bargain deal?
    In support of his application for costs, Mr Abbott said Senator Fisher’s was no ordinary shoplifting case as she faced being stripped of her Senate seat if convicted on either charge.“It could have ended all that she had worked for in her life,” he said. (here, paywall limited)

  14. We now have Mr.,Hockey ABC 24. Company tax. Once again the twisting words, this time of Wong.

    The government does not have the reduction of company tax on the agenda at this time. The government has also willing to put it back on the agenda if the companies can come up with anything.

    Main job is to make their stunts look K this morning.

  15. I do hope someone asks him how it is their vote. The Speaker was very clear that it is the vote of the house. It does not belong to either party.

    How can the accept something that does not belong to them.

    Yes, he has been asked that.

  16. Hockey has back down on using the Budget Office to scrutinize policy before the elections.

    They do not pair for independents. Why not.

  17. This morning Abbott had a press conference with Brindabella Airlines. The head of the Airlines should front the ACCC because he said that the Carbon Tax was the final nail in closing 2 routes. Now for the record Brindabella has decided to do contract work for Fly-in Fly- out, miners. and there will be Carbon Price effects on the cost of that work. So public blaming the Carbon Price, which has not even started and yet still operating just in a more profitable field is deceitful.

  18. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has been given additional funding to take action against false and misleading claims like the one being made by Brindabella Airlines.
    If the Gillard government does not act and instruct the ACCC to investigate these bullshit claims, they will continue to transition out of government.

  19. Sue, that was addressed in parliament yesterday. What we see once again, half the story. If I have it correct, they are using those planes from the routes to put in place new, more profitable routes.

    Miglo, the PM might have seen that one. She made a point of saying the Leader of the Opposition can run, but he will not be able to hide. The PM has used this phrase on more than one occasion.

    Abbott has been accused of sending out misleading letters to councils, claiming the fuel cost will not go up.

    Cost for on road will not charge. Off road, will fall. Mr. Combet, gave information in QT.

  20. Cu, I believe that it was Tony Windsor who said that these things would be tied up with pretty pink bows that could never be undone.

  21. lol

  22. CU
    Albanese very upset by an interjection across the Chamber, Deputy Speaker on her feet will not have comment about Greg Wilton.
    Albanese now upset with continuing comment by Abbott.
    Joel Fitzgibbon, govt whip, now speaking with person who sits behind PM and heard all the comments. Very concerned faces.

  23. Mr. Albanese told business to close their doors when they see Abbott coming. He warned then that he is there to talk the business down and put it at risk.

    Who cares what the PM said last week in private.

  24. Tony Abbott and the Liberals have attacked these measures, condemning them as ”class warfare” and ”the politics of envy”. Abbott has yet to say whether he will oppose them in the Senate, but his party’s longstanding opposition to Labor’s attempt to impose a means test on the private health insurance rebate suggests he will.
    Much is at stake. You may think you pay a lot of tax, but people in almost every other developed country pay a lot more than we do, even the Kiwis. The single greatest reason for our relatively low level of taxation is our inheritance from Menzies of a lean and mean welfare system: low, flat-rate, means-tested benefits. Most other

    Read more:–a-taxing-dilemma-20110517-1er5t.html#ixzz1wKFZBoiS

  25. That, according to the Opposition Leader, would be ”the nail in the coffin That, according to the Opposition Leader, would be ”the nail in the coffin of the motor manufacturing industry in this country that spells disaster for Australia as a First World economy”.
    He did not mention that in January he promised to cut $500 million from government assistance that car makers have already factored in to the budgets of their existing operations. Or what effect that would have on either the businesses or Australia’s First World

    Read more:
    of the motor manufacturing industry in this country that spells disaster for Australia as a First World economy”.
    He did not mention that in January he promised to cut $500 million from government assistance that car makers have already factored in to the budgets of their existing operations. Or what effect that would have on either the businesses or Australia’s First World

    Read more:<

  26. This is the best time of the day. No SSO. Very noisy. Opposition upset and claims to be mis-represented Bishop has lost it.

    Another trying to defend lying.

    Never seen personal representations so lively.

    I would say the government has landed some arrows.

    The member for Higgins is the most upset. Remember that business that show the shop closing down with all the posters over it, claiming it was because of the so called carbon tax. Investigation showed this we not true. The business had moved down the road to bigger premises. What they were doing, having a sale, instead of moving the stock.

  27. Sue, it was very dirty today. It reflects badly on the Opposition. It also shows their desperation.

    We now have Andrews raving on about that promise. That is all they seem to have left.

    A promise by the way, that was not broken.

    A mob of desperadoes indeed.

  28. Of course lies by others do not matter.

    Potential costs of $6 billion for meeting future generation capacity would also be avoided, he said.

    Opposition Leader John Robertson said the privatisation would push up electricity prices, arguing a power sell-off in South Australia had pushed up bills by 30 per cent.

    He also accused Mr O’Farrell of breaking an election promise, citing a comment to a Lithgow newspaper in January 2011, when the then opposition leader said there were no plans to privatise the poles and wires.

    “Barry O’Farrell’s shown today that he’s prepared to break every promise that he’s made to get a deal up to get this through,” Mr Robertson told reporters.

    Mr Robertson added that safety in national parks would be at risk.

    “A premier who promises not to allow hunting in national parks is about to allow a shooting spree to open up in some of the most pristine parts of the state,” he said.

    Labor’s environment spokesman Luke Foley said Environment Minister Robyn Parker could not be trusted to keep anybody safe in national parks.

    “(There will be) shooters rampaging through our world class national parks,” he told reporters.

  29. For all the whisperers who have kindly asked after s-i-l:

    Dr. removed 3 lymph glands from under her arm as well as the lump in her breast. Found 1 lymph gland under the arm showed signs of cancer so removed the glands either side which were clear.

    Dr has advised radium and chemotherapy. Without this, the chance of re-occurrence in the next 10 years is 8%, but with both radium and chemotherapy the chance drops to 4%.

    The cancer was graded as a 2, the most common cancer with a 3 or upwards being worse. The cancer was not an aggressive cancer.

    So a bit of mixed news in that lot. It wasn’t aggressive, but the best path involves both radiation and chemo. I think she’s in for a torrid time over the next few months!

  30. CU
    disgusting, well that’s what you get with abbott.
    as to the member for higgins, i noted that when the attention was on her and her outright lie she had her head down and refused to have her face on camera.
    then to show their desperation the coalition wanted the photo tabled. i didn’t hear the excuses after qt, what excuse did she have for promoting lies?

  31. Doesn’t this shoot down all of Abbott’s carbon price furphies, and el gordo’s a swell by the way.

    The fossil fuel sector isn’t hiding from a carbon tax. In fact, it’s planning a revival. Renewable energy is undermined by coal-powered operators finding ways to reduce emissions and increase efficiency, writes Philipp Rosskopf.

    Isn’t this exactly what the carbon price is all about, and already it’s working.

  32. Well O’Farrell has really screwed it now.

    To get the vote of the Shooters Party to sell of the electricity generators (another broken promise btw and a huge one) he is going to allow hunting in NSW National Parks.

    I bet there is no outcry from the media on this and the Liberal supporters will be absolutely mum. Of course when Labor proposed to sell of electricity the hugest and most sustained outcry from the media and Coalition was let loose, but imagine their faux outcry if hunting in parks had also been part of the Labor energy sell off.

  33. And the O’Farrell broken promises keep on coming.

    He’s cut funding to the Keep Australia Beautiful group and this has infuriated SME groups. Watch the States towns and cities become grottier and awful eyesores, as they inevitably do under Liberal governments when they slash and burn without thought.

    O’Farrell certainly is doing his best to ensure another long term Labor government will rule when he’s booted out of government.

  34. Mobius, and the slash and burn is always false economy. Country towns receive boosts to their economies via visitors and tourists. When a place becomes an eyesore, these additional dollars quickly disappear.

    I am thinking of some work I did at the town of Bangalow just out of Byron Bay. Bangalow as a small town was losing business and fast to Byron. Therefore we set out to establish “a theme”, which ended up being arts and crafts and shopkeepers all contributed..against some’s wishes. It eventuated that I was right, that tourists who came to Byron were looking for daytrips, especially when it rains..which is often. Bangalow reaped the benefits.

  35. One of the business owners they interviewed Min said exactly that.

    When the graffiti and loose trash isn’t cleaned up by the Keep Australia Beautiful group there’s a noticeable drop off in business around the area.

    But we are talking SME’s here and since when did Liberal governments concern themselves with bottom shelf companies. All their energies are devoted to those who own them by donations, big business and the wealthy. The Liberals make a lot of noise about supporting small business, but like pensioners and farmers the economics and policies of when the Liberals are in power mostly don’t support their self aggrandised assertion.

  36. Mobius, it has been my experience as a Shire Councillor that it is predominantly the Greens who care most about the environment..duh, did I just say that! And for SMEs in bush and country towns basically the only thing that they have going for them is their uniqueness. Trash it with graffiti, then nobody wants to go there. Establish wall to wall housing with trashy factory outlets, then eventually the whole scheme falls down in a heap because you have not created a future vision. However, create something unique be it bush trails, arts and crafts markets then you have a viable small community.

  37. ‘I bet there is no outcry from the media on this and the Liberal supporters will be absolutely mum.’

    The msm will follow the story, the more conflicting the better…and the Coalition accept that something has to be done about the ferals.

  38. El gordo and,

    and the Coalition accept that something has to be done about the ferals.

    Are you referring to any particular people? Ferals as in alternative lifestylers at Bangalow? Or who….

  39. Gotcha now, you mean feral animals. The method far preferred is cat traps. Cats are by far the worst and most destructive of feral animals in close to city locations.

    We, as in Lilydale Shire in conjunction with Sherbrooke Shire introduced the first Cat Curfews. This was so as to protect the lyrebird which was on the brink of extinction due to the prevalece of feral and domestic cats. Sorry moggy owners, but keep your cats locked up at night or they will find themselves in a cat trap.

  40. Maybe those on welfare that come to town once a fortnight..

    Fortnightly puzzles me, as pension day. Once a fortnight has not occur for decades.

    The day is calculated from when it is approved. It can be any week day.

  41. …and the Coalition accept that something has to be done about the ferals.

    But allowing what is a relatively small number of shooters into parks will hardly make a dent on feral animals, but there will be native animals accidentally shot as well, that is inevitable.

    In my early days in the Navy as an Ord we teamed up with Army in a feral cat shoot in parks for a short time. What was scary about that experience, and this was over three decades ago, was that in just about every bird’s nest we shone our spotlights on, cats eyes looked back at us.

    I don’t know how many feral cats were shot in that exercise, it must have been a lot, but it was soon called off when it was realised that not even the entire Defence Force hunting ferals was going to make much of difference.

    If O’Farrell was serious about getting rid of ferals in National Parks then he would be spending money on trapping, baiting and scientific methods such as targeted sterilisation through baiting.

  42. Mobius, an obvious one is that no domestic pet is to be bought/sold without the requirement of sterilisation. Registered breeders being the exception.

    Baiting isn’t good because then you kill a good number of native animals. Trapping is by far the best method, but reducing the numbers of puppy farms etc via legislation helps as well.

    Son is also small arms, yes still in the Navy now a 10 year man believe it or not. You know the price of a bullet..shooting isn’t exactly cost effective for starters.

  43. ‘But allowing what is a relatively small number of shooters into parks will hardly make a dent on feral animals, but there will be native animals accidentally shot as well, that is inevitable.’

    Yes, there might be some collateral damage, but this is war to the death against ferals to save the natives. They will make a dent, don’t you worry about that.

    The agrarian socialist Stoner did the deal (for the good of the Coalition) which might heal the rift over fracking.

  44. “They will make a dent, don’t you worry about that.”

    Yet again another absolute statement. No ifs, no buts and no empirical or other evidence to back it up.

    Unless you count a minuscule per cent as a dent, then I guess you just might be right for once, otherwise even an army of shooters in every park instead of a handful in 70 odd parks are hardly going to make a dent at all.

  45. ““They will make a dent, don’t you worry about that.”

    Well it will be a first if they do.

    I remember as a child the battle against rabbits. My aunt and cousin used to trap around a hundred a night. They kept the skins, and the rest went to the pigs.

    Shooting was only done for fun. It was not seen as an attack against the pests.. This was an rare event. Fishing was the more likely pursuit. Guns were kept to slaughter the odd pig. Dad did not like cutting their throat.

    My father spent any spare time he has, ripping out the burrows.

    If anything they seemed increased., My grandfather spent his time laying baits.

    Now all this activity did not make a dent in the rabbit population..

    Those rabbits thrived, along with the Feral cats.

    It was Myxomatosis that wiped them out over night.. Sadly it was only for a brief time.

    I still remember the tears in my fathers eyes when he bought the infected rabbits for release. The rabbits were destroying him, but a fifty year old man, reared on the land could still feel for the fate of animals.

    In central Queensland, I knew families that survived by catching wild pigs. They relied mostly on their dogs, guns were more for protection than killing pigs. There was little decrease in the pig population.

    No, letting these idiots into the natural parks have nothing to do with getting rid of pests. They have more to do with some peoples need to kill.

    They have one skill, and one skill only, shooting a gun at targets, this time live animals.

  46. Back tracking on yet another pledge. Maybe he is being force to see some reality.

    Mr Abbott also revisited his pledge to wind back Labor’s mining and carbon taxes if the coalition wins government, although he agreed the attached legislation would make it hard to do.

    ‘Well let me assure you, that a tax that’s been put in place by legislation can be removed by legislation,’ he told an audience of mining leaders in Canberra on Wednesday.

  47. Julia Gillard, PM In a speech to a Minerals Council of Australia dinner

    “”In a tough global environment, Australia needs tough leadership, and I think you know by know, I’m prepared to fight,” she added.

    “And here’s the rub,” she told the gathering in Parliament House.

    “You don’t own the minerals.”

    But she made it clear the government, which is facing headwinds from a soft global economy, wants growth and to spread the benefits of the mining boom even though “you’re not all in love with the language”.

    “Governments only sell you the right to mine the resource,” she said.

    “A resource we hold in trust for a sovereign people.

    “They own it and they deserve their share.

    Read more:

    That’s a bit different to the sop they heard from Abbott at lunch time.

  48. Sue, I did not hear it all, but I like what I heard. I suspect the gathering did too. It was a statesman like effort.

    I did listen to all of Abbott’s speech earlier today. He is not in the same class. Never will be.

    Me thinks the lady is making progress.

  49. I was not going to bother with a comment but changed my mind..

    We had a child fall off a school roof today, hiding from the Headmaster. Sadly he died. He he was playing childish games, as children do.

    What do you call a MP hiding in the the advisers box.

    To make it more ridiculous, they were arguing against something they would do themselves, which in itself was a stunt.

    I believe if one is in the house, they must vote. It appears he was in the house. Where is the referral to the PC.

    Hockey was blathering on about how the Government was going to increase the borrowing limit from $250 billion to $300 billion and wanted to make a crass political point about government debt.

    The proposal itself is sensible and has nothing to do with the scare mongering campaign on debt the Oppositon has mounted.

    It is a measure the Opposition would introduce in government themselves.

    So Anthony Albanese moved that Hockey be no longer heard. of course the Opposition wanted to vote against this gag order. But the strategic geniuses in the next government weren’t prepared for Thomson voting with them.

    If they can’t figure that out what will the blithering idiots be like in government? They’ll have us wishing for a return to the Gillard government in about 12 months.

    Or maybe, just maybe, they’ll provoke a massive backlash against their austerity and class struggle will re-enter the Australian lexicon.


    Entsch went to a door that wouldn’t open. Pyne hid in an adviser’s box. Abbott was too late – the doors had been locked. Strategic geniuses.

    It looks as if Pyne’s vote was the one that wasn’t counted.

    Why all this childish behaviour? Tony Abbott pontificated that he wouldn’t accept Craig Thomson’s ‘tainted’ vote and called on the Prime Minister to do the same. Evidently the Opposition are honourable men and women.

    So having Thomson vote with them undermines their mock moral

  50. Is there a new “narrative” being prepared for the NOalition? It’s telling that 7.30 and Lateline (and probably the commercial shite as well, but I don’t watch them) are ramping up the “Aboriginal children” issue again, even to the point of interviewing the former Minister for Aboriginal Affairs (aka minister for the Intervention), now wanna-be member for Fisher, and the former alleged paramour of the former Prime Minister, now NSW Minister for Community Services and Women, and running stories reminisent of the pre-intervention rhetoric of 2006/7.

    Prepare for some very ugly politics, aimed at the “ugly Australian”, to be unleashed by the NOaliton in the coming months – I really hope I’m wrong on this one!

  51. Bacchus, sadly you are not wrong. Pru Goward is one that should know better.

    The one saving grace maybe that the public is not in the mood to appreciate such tactics.

    The manager of opposition business hiding in the advisers box is not good picture of the ability of the Opposition.

  52. How is Thomson a rat. Have these journalist we have today got past primary school.

    Abbott acts like an idiot, and it is Labor and Thomson’s fault.

    All Thomson did, as a duly elected MP, exercised his vote. A vote that belongs to him, on behalf of his constituency.

    It does not belong to Abbott or anyone else. Abbott is attempting to undermine the will of the house by denying him his vote.

    Labor rat must now be sent packing
    BY: TROY BRAMSTON From: The Australian May 31, 2012 12:00AM

    CRAIG Thomson’s decision to vote with the opposition in parliament has earned him a place among Labor’s rogues gallery of rats and deserves immediate expulsion from the party.

    Labor has always had a high tolerance for internal critics and dissenters, but not for those who vote with its opponents.

  53. What an apt observation

    “When Thomson approaches Abbott, Abbott flees as though he can simply outrun his failures. It takes a fool to bleat that the nation’s defences are insufficient and then entrust them to a shit-happens runaway. Gillard will start getting points for trying to grapple with the big issues once people realise the alternative is Brave Sir Robin”

  54. Gillard’s ‘natural wit and warmth fell away when she became Prime Minister. She stopped being real. She stooped low to conquer. Yet Abbott has been unable to mint this into personal popularity. His coalition has a commanding lead in the polls but the public still finds his credibility wanting.

    ‘Something is missing at the top, and on such matters the collective wisdom of the public is infallible.’

    Read more:

  55. To you believe that el gordo?

    You deliberately selected that one little piece from the whole article why? And quoting Sheehan as well, one of the problems not the cure.

    Instead of writing the almost daily nonsense and often outright fabrications in personal opinion pieces like the one you sourced, he should be a real journalist and report on policies from both sides. But of course if he did that he could only report on policies from one side as there are none from the other, and when they are mentioned in passing they are very expensive populist crap with no detail or credibility.

  56. “Gillard’s ‘natural wit and warmth fell away when she became Prime Minister.”

    To illustrate my point just look at Sheehan’s opening line of your very selective quote, one you chose to deliberately denigrate Gillard.

    It is of course an opinionated piece of nonsense. Gillard has displayed wit and warmth on many occasions since becoming PM, yet the media, with Sheehan being a leader in this, either chose to ignore it or denigrate it. They constantly berate her often in misogynist pieces, and report her wit as a failing and warmth as being false.

    Gillard can’t win no matter what emotions or traits she shows, positive or negative, with both being reported as being bad.

    So el gordo it is very telling you not only chose that opinionated piece of crap to source but that one particular small piece from the article to copy and paste.

  57. Where has Tweet gone he, who was gloating about the big important week, the PM was facing revolt, the govt would fall

    Instead we have Abbott admitting to his colleagues he is unable to deliver the knock out blow.

  58. Don’t any of you lot use Del Shannon’s “Runaway” to take the piss out of Abbott. It’s a personal favourite, especially the hard-to-find slow version, & I wouldn’t want it to be tainted.

  59. The real story yesterday.

    PRIME Minister Julia Gillard has warned the mining industry Australians want and deserve a share of the nation’s resources boom and reminded its leaders they don’t “own” the minerals in ground.
    In a frank and spirited front-foot address at the annual Parliamentary dinner in Canberra to a sector the Government has been at war with in public relations terms, Ms Gillard defended criticisms of billionaire miners as powerful sectional interests.
    She said it was one thing to invest money but told the big end of town they were certainly not the only hardworking people in the economy.
    “Now, I know you’re not all in love with the language of “spreading the benefits of the boom,” she told them.
    “Australians don’t begrudge hard work and we admire your success.
    “But I know this too: they work pretty hard in car factories and at panel beaters’ and in police stations and hospitals too, and here’s the rub.
    “You don’t own the minerals. I don’t own the minerals.
    “Governments only sell you the right to mine the resource.
    “A resource we hold in trust for a sovereign people.
    “They own it and they deserve their share.
    In his speech to the dinner, Rio Tinto’s Managing Director David Peever was equally blunt.
    “Divisiveness can have no future in the vibrant Australia to which we aspire,” he said.

    Read more:

  60. Sue, plus with Abbott finally admitting that it’s highly unlikely that he will be able to fulfill his promises to wind back the carbon and mining legislation. Not that this is receiving Screaming Headlines as it would have had it been Gillard “lying”.

  61. “PM was facing revolt, the govt would fall”

    Those opinion polls were going to be so bad.

    Sue, none of them are around. It is poor Neil over on Massive Spray that is having a losing battle, keep the side up.

    Cannot get out of my mind, run rabbit run

    By the way, I love that warm smile that our PM has for all. I can only say, those who do not see it must be blind.

  62. I heard another twist from the mining industry this morning that had my draw drop.

    Someone, I missed who, stated that Gillard’s policy of putting Australian’s ahead of foreign workers in oversight of allowing foreign workers into Australia was racist.

    Yep, apparently Gillard is discriminating against foreigners. And it follows that mining companies being allowed to hire whoever they like, from anywhere they like, at any wage and conditions they like, is somehow being nondiscriminatory so to be lauded.

  63. Bacchus

    the song Run Rabbit, run Rabbit seems to be a hit.
    especially when I viewed the clip there were 2 govt advertisments
    1 ad for “jobs in mining industry
    2. for “higher education study assistance ”

  64. Mobius and Yep, apparently Gillard is discriminating against foreigners. Ensuring that foreigners are paid at the same rate as Australians is racist. 😯

    Clearly Gillard is saying that if you want to import foreign workers then they have to paid the going rate of Australian employees. In that way it is ensuring that foreign workers are not exploited as cheap labour. IF there is a genuine skills shortage in this regard then it won’t be about cheap labour.

    However, I think that we will find that the miners will kick and scream about this one..because it is indeed all about cheap labour.

  65. Abbott was right to tell his party room that the Prime Minister won’t lie down and die, but he was wrong to draw attention to the fact that this has pretty much been his whole strategy all along. All that Battlelines stuff was so much bluster and fluff, only mugs like Ross Cameron believe in it. Coalition MPs and Senators are the people who have most at stake for the success of both his strategic judgment and execution. Many of them will now realise that Abbott has sold them a dog, and will start to wonder whether or not he can keep the Coalition ahead of Labor for much longer.

  66. and

    It turned out Our Lady of the Health Services Union is neither as pure nor as clever as she needed to be, for her sake, for Abbott’s, and for a Coalition which has been made to look stupid. Ashby, the honey-trap IED launched at Slipper, has turned and blown up in the face of Christopher Pyne.*

    Yes, that indefatigable strategist who made possible the governments of Costello and Turnbull has himself slipped. Even though Pyne’s failures are not those of his leader, Abbott cannot get over them. Pyne could and should drop the righteous fury that Abbott dare not show himself, lest he make Mark Latham look about as threatening as Bill Hayden. He should admit his flaws re Ashby and render his life an open book, in the hope of being courageous and even endearing in his chirpy and flamboyant way. If he did that he might win Sturt and have a political career that appears more durable than it does today.

  67. Can they do anything right.

    The Opposition needs to stop drinking the AMA Kool-Aid

    Jon Wardle writes:

    Australia needs a multi-disciplinary and integrated approach to the primary health care challenges of the coming century. The new primary health care organisations known as Medicare Locals aren’t perfect (as most will admit) but they are a welcome first step to re-orienting the health system towards a more responsive form of primary health care.

    Hell, the fact that there is even a major health reform focused on valuing primary care (not just hospitals, but stopping people getting there in the first place) is even occurring in Australia is something that should be applauded by all flavours of politics in Australia, it’s certainly welcome news to most of the public health community.

    It is therefore disappointing that Health-Minister-In-Waiting Peter Dutton has announced that the Coalition is committed to abolishing Medicare Locals.

    The deafening silence that came from the absent roars of support from organisations across the country seem to indicate that the Coalition may have missed the mark on this one.

  68. Better to forget the dismantling. I would extend this to all their promises.

    Peter Dutton’s retort is that he would like to take the money ‘wasted’ on Medicare Locals and pump it straight into front-line medical services. However, more health services will not equate to better health service provision without the kind of co-ordination Medicare Locals can provide. If Dutton doesn’t want Medicare Locals to do it, then who will?

    The Opposition would be much better served addressing the problems that exist in the current health reforms and allowing Medicare Locals and other agencies to get on with the jobs they were created to do, rather than dismantling important and necessary health reforms.

  69. ‘If you listened to public policy discourse right now and nothing else, you would think that our parliament is worse than Papua New Guinea, our economy worse than Greece, our electricity system worse than North Korea,’’ he told ABC Television.
    ‘‘This perspective question … is something we all need to have a good hard think about it.’’


    The hung parliament had been a force for good in many ways and had achieved outcomes that never would have happened under a majority arrangement, Mr Oakeshott said.
    ‘‘We are also seeing private members bills at a level no Commonwealth parliament in history has been able to get up – that is the community’s voice being heard.’’

    Read more:
    Read more:

  70. Cu, complete and utter political expedience. The tactic from the Opposition has been, oppose everything then the public will rapidly form the opinion that there is something wrong with it.

    Very much psychological mind-games.

  71. One needs to remember that Mr. Abbott’s antics are only a sideshow to what is occurring the parliament every day.

    The house is very functioning and delivering the goods.

    The PM has not let the distractions and noise keep her from the main game.

    PM Speech My words. You work hard I know, but those in factories, drive buses….work just as hard. Yes, even the Labor that digs that ore out of the ground work hard.

  72. With many thanks to Val B for the news:

    NSW Upper House just passed the Equal Marriage motion 22 to 16. Nice to see they still get some things right 🙂

  73. PS they are having a division. Wonder if Mr. Abbott has his two cockatoos in place
    No rush for the door yet. Is being in the Advisers box, the same as being in the House.

  74. Min @12.03
    On Gillard “descriminating against foreigners”, which CEO said that, the Canadian, The Yank, the South African or the Brit?
    It was a bit rough saying that to a red headed, ex-welsh, woman who won’t lie down and die.

  75. Sue, it’s the Welsh in her..

    **Disclaimer: Jenkins family from Pontnewynydd, Monmouthshire. Granny Jenkins was likewise redhead, lived to a week short of her 103rd birthday..we Welsh fems don’t give up easily.

  76. People who think Julia is discriminating against foreigners, possibly do so because they don’t want to employ Aborigines.

  77. Because of course gambling addiction is a mental illness. The thing about gambling addicts who can’t be dragged away from the club is that is where they receive their adrenaline rush. This is a high just the same as any high from any drug. Step One is to admit that they have a problem as Kennett would know.

    Former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett has been warned that he would be putting at risk his legacy of working with the mentally ill by taking a seat on the board of the company behind Sydney’s Star casino.

  78. It was intended to be the original name for this blog, but it was taken. Café Whispers was available so I grabbed it. It sort of fitted in with the Canberra scene, too, where everybody sits around chatting or whispering.

  79. So Abbott believes he can muddy the waters with campaigning against on line gambling.

    I would be surprised if there was any connection about those who gamble on line, and those who play pokies.

    Just as many who bet on the horses never go near the pokies.

    When I was a child, many played cards for money. This does not seem that popular now.

    Playing pokies online does not have the same excitement, if that is the word, playing in a club.

    It is another Abbott stunt.

    Maybe the charities that assist those in trouble because of the club, pubs and poker machines, tell us how many they see, who lose their money on line.

    I am not saying we should not look at online gambling, but to put it in the same basket, as poker machines are dishonest.

  80. No objection here. I only offered the idea of an Open Thread as it seemed to me at the time that there were a lot of issues which people wanted to talk about but which didn’t fit in with a current topic. I’m just pleased that my idea of Open Thread has been so successful.

  81. Min, indeed it has. it seems to hold the lot together. Often issues raised here grow into posts of their own.

    I do like this site, which seems to have involved to attract many different types of people, with different slants on current affairs.

    I put this elsewhere.

    Well it is Thursday afternoon and the PM is still there. They seem to have lost the smoking gun. It is Abbott that is run run running. Can he hide. The PM believes not.

    Mr Thomson has made a speech, talking up Medicare Locals on the coast. I assume, he is laughing at the cockatoos, or are they galahs, that Abbott has posted, to protected him from that tainted vote.

  82. Cu @5.58, there is little correlation between poker machine players and online gambling. It’s all about the addiction and understanding the adrenaline rush which addicts obtain from the club scene.

    Addicts do not obtain the same rush from online gambling, although I am certain that should some addicts have their habit curtailed must go onto online. This would be equivalent to a smoker who cannot get their favorite brand of cigarette and who might settle for a rollie as next best.

  83. Min, they are two separate issues. Abbott is just trying to muddy the waters. They have two different solutions.

    It is another distraction on his part. That is all he is capable of, putting up distractions.

  84. This might seem to be a negative, but all is good. This one puts to bed the fear campaign lodged by a number of religious organisations that clergy would be “forced” to marry gay people in contravention of their religious beliefs:

    Federal Parliament today voted in favour of a motion from Tasmanian independent MP Andrew Wilkie which confirms that religious celebrants will not be made to perform same-sex marriages if it conflicts with their faith.

    The motion read “Should the Marriage Act be amended to allow same-sex marriages the amendments should ensure the Marriage Act imposes no obligation on a minister of religion to solemnise such marriages,” and was passed ‘on the voices’.

    Australian Marriage Equality (AME) national convenor Alex Greenwich hoped the motion would put to rest one of the most persistent fears raised by religious objectors.

  85. THE federal government has undone decades of bipartisan groundwork and caused “gratuitous damage” to Australia’s relationship with China, former prime minister John Howard has said.

    As guest speaker at Britain’s Oxford Union overnight, Mr Howard was guarded in his denunciation of the incumbent federal government, but did not hold back when it came to dealings with the Asian superpower.

    “I think gratuitous damage has been done to Australia’s relationship with China, by both Mr Rudd and Ms Gillard,” Mr Howard said.

    Prime Minister for more than 11 years, Mr Howard’s coalition government lost office to Mandarin-speaking Kevin Rudd’s Labor Party in November 2007.

    “Every Australian prime minister from Gough Whitlam onwards saw the importance (of Chinese relations) and each in their own way made a contribution,” Mr Howard said.

  86. Well Howard tell us exactly how our relations with China have been damaged, as compared to your real damage of them?

    Of course he won’t, because like everything that comes out of this man’s mind it’s a whole load of utter bull.

    Oh and isn’t good to see him keeping his promise and staying out of contemporary politics. The greatest liar we’ve ever had in politics in this country.

  87. ME, but it is different. It is only Labor that one has problems with lies.

    It is OK everywhere else.

  88. ‘The greatest liar we’ve ever had in politics in this country.’

    That’s a lie, Craig Thomson wins by a mile.

  89. And as far as I know, Craig Thomson hasn’t yet taken us into an illegal war based on known incorrect information aka a LIE.

  90. “That’s a lie, Craig Thomson wins by a mile.”

    Where is the truth for that statement. el gordo, the man has not been charged, let alone convicted of any crime.

  91. These days wars of adventure are bipartisan affairs.

    ‘THE Federal Government has pushed legislation through the Lower House to set up a $10 billion green investment bank for clean energy projects.’

    This should be easy to dismantle and the savings can be put into real infrastructure.

  92. Bacchus, I believe I have been endeavoring to do that for the last couple of days. Not getting anywhere though. I believe it maybe a lost cause,

  93. CU it is plain to most of the Australian population that Craig is a pathological liar, only barrackers think otherwise.

  94. Bi-partisan or not, it still was based on a lie. The same as Menzies left us the Vietnam, which was also based on a lie, on the way out.

  95. Oh come off el gordo. Since when did Thomson send us to war and cost the lives of not only Australians, but untold innocent men, women and children, all on a long running series of monumental lies.

    Nothing any leader has ever done in this country, nor probably any leader will do in the future gets near that deliberate series of lies and deceits.

    Oh and Downer’s beauty, no not AWB nor the deliberate leaking of Australian State secrets to Bolt, his standing in parliament hand on heart stating that there was irrefutable evidence of Hussien building nuclear weapons.because of aluminium tubes and buying Niger uranium. Only thing was that Downer had been told two weeks earlier that so called irrefutable evidence was very suspect in the case of the tubes and false in the case of the uranium.

    And don’t even get me started on Howard and Downer’s lies on East Timor during the uprising and massacres by Indonesian militia.

  96. And I see the one sentence jibes are out again. There is a name for posters who continuously do that and not give any sort of lucid and comprehensive talking points or responses.

  97. “most of the Australian population that Craig is a pathological liar, only barrackers think otherwise.”

    What a statement. You now speak for the majority. That in itself is an amazing statement.

    The majority do not have all the evidence. Therefore they cannot come to a considered decision.

    None of the so called evidence has been tested in a court of law. There for they could be wrong.

    Remember the dingo, The majority, over a number of years, believed the dingo was innocence. Mum the guilty party.

    The most the majority can do, is make uninformed assumptions.

  98. El gordo and,

    most of the Australian population that Craig is a pathological liar

    And the dingo stole my baby…

    Guess what..the Australian population can be wrong and this is why we have things called courts of law where the truth can be ascertained via logic and the rules of evidence.

  99. The name you seek is ‘troll’…these are my talking points.

    Spain Ejects Green Energy Lobby

    by Alex Morales and Ben Sills, Bloomberg

    ‘Spanish renewable-energy companies that once got Europe’s biggest subsidies are deserting the nation after the government shut off aid, pushing project developers and equipment-makers to work abroad or perish.’

  100. “This should be easy to dismantle and the savings can be put into real infrastructure.”

    Hate to disappoint you, there will be no money, unless the price on carbon emissions is left in place.

    Now where Mr. Abbott is going to get the money from for his Direct Action Programme.

  101. Abbott’s new song, according to Combet.

    I have been everywhere and everywhere is doomed man.

  102. Then why didn’t you do that in the first place el gordo, and why no links, you know those links and context you rarely bother to post?

    Why the constant one sentence snide side remarks that add nothing to a topic but are purely designed to provoke a reaction and then you often ignore the responses that aren’t to your liking because they show you up, mostly as being wrong?

  103. I’ll do el gordo’s work, again. And context.

    Do a search on for many links on Spain Ejects Green Energy Lobby, but now the context:

    “Saddled with a budget deficit more than twice the European Union limit and a ballooning gap between income and costs in its power system, Spain halted subsidies for new renewable-energy projects in January. The surprise move by Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy one month after taking office helped pierce investor confidence in stable aid for clean energy across Europe.”

    Up to 50% of Spain’s energy came from renewable sources at their peak, so are they throwing this out because it’s not viable, a waste, inefficient or any other reasons to do with the failure of renewable energy? No not at all. It’s all to do with economics and Spains looming debt crisis. So their non-renewable energy will also be slashed as a consequence.

    And it’s not even all bad news for the Spanish renewable energy industries.

    “The future is outside of Spain,” said Sean McLoughlin, clean energy analyst at HSBC Bank Plc in London. “Gamesa already moved most of their business out of Spain and the moratorium only helps to accelerate and complete that process.”

    Yet again something el gordo attempts to bash renewable energy and environmentally sound practices with turns out not to be that at all.

  104. One has to wonder what el gordo has against renewable energy. Irrespective of one’s belief in climate change, it is nonsensical to trash the idea of renewable energy sources.

  105. ‘…you often ignore the responses that aren’t to your liking because they show you up, mostly as being wrong?’


    That’s old news Min. Talcum would make a fine leader of the Coalition, but he’ll have to drop the tax and everything associated with green energy, because global warming is a monstrous lie.

  106. El gordo, sadly that would make Turnbull somewhat of a hypocrite given that he crossed to floor to vote for it.

    Phooey? Now there’s a term that I haven’t heard for a couple of decades…

  107. ME, I believe the article is about the economic mess Spain finds itself in.

    I do not get the impression that the programmes cause the economic down turn. What I get is that the programmes are not being abandon but put on ice.

    Other countries in Europe have done similar things, and are travelling OK

    I have no idea what el gordo is trying to prove.

  108. Sidetrack again, with a sentence more or less repeated many times. Oh well what else can you expect.

    In the meantime it’s just time until AWB catches up with Downer and Howard.

    Former AWB director admits to breach

    AWB senior management have kept mum because the Howard government allowed them to walk away with full payouts and extra bonuses. It will only be time that will lead to the real story on AWB and expose the bullshit Downer and Howard output at the time in their Sergeant Schultz defence.

  109. I am a regular watcher of that programme where people from the UK flee to Spain in thousands for life the sun. I often wonder if they push the prices beyond the reach of the locals.

    What I have observed that many of these homes do not have connected power, water or sewage.

    Many are in poor condition. Maybe I should change that to most are in poor condition.

    The roads do not appear to be much better.

    I get the impression it is still a backward country.

    Decades of being under a dictatorship might have something to do with this.

    Going down the road of renewal energy might be the cheapest and most efficient was of bringing them into the modern age.

    Communications also leave much to be desired.

  110. The facts are that initiating renewable energy is very expensive. The longer it is in place, the cheaper it becomes.

    The opposite is true with fossil fuels. As time goes on, they become more expensive.

  111. Wrong, el gordo, wrong. Most barrackers – and I assume you mean us – have adopted the line of let’s see if he’s guilty before we pass judgement. That you call him a liar, based on speculation, in my opinion is very narrow minded.

  112. Cu, as time goes on we’ll eventually be without any fossil fuel.

    But the good news is that more is in production. First batch should be ready in about seventy million years. 😉

  113. Renewable energy has unimaginable potential for 3rd world countries. Imagine the algae farms on unviable farmland. Third world countries have benefited by taking the simplest ideas such as pedal electricity. On the other hand the introduction of money making ventures such as fast food has ended up with people dying from malnutrition.

  114. ‘I have no idea what el gordo is trying to prove.’

    As Europe spirals down they will stop subsidising green energy schemes, particularly as coal seam gas makes energy cheap.

    ‘That you call him a liar, based on speculation, in my opinion is very narrow minded.’

    Google pathological liar and you will see Craig writ large.

  115. Well ME, another lie proved. Took long enough, longer that the Thomson inquiry but at least we have a result.

  116. I thought Germany was raising the usage of renewable energy. That is a country I believe that has accessed to coal.

  117. Cu @ 6:24.

    That was a lovely thing to say and I think everybody would have appreciated your comment.

    I like it here too. It’s the people.

  118. El gordo and Google pathological liar and you will see Craig writ large. And I could Google green eggs and ham, but that doesn’t make it factual information.

  119. Miglo, I enjoy many other sites, and they appear to be growing.

    Here is like belonging to a family.

    I think the networking, we are doing with cut and paste is paying off.

    We are doing better, I think, than the Menzies site, considering that was set up with much money and expertise.

    What is Bough doing on again. ABC 24.

  120. Yet another headline that doesn’t actually reflect what the whole story is and you need the last paragraph to find out. It’s not just Australian and UK media that does this.

  121. My understanding is that Prissy Chrissy has been appointed coalition runner should Craig Thomson appear in its neck of the woods. I wonder how the good electors of Sturt feel about being on standby disenfranchisement to save Abbott’s face.

  122. Bob, all that Thomson has to do, is come into the house, stand near the door until they are closed, then move to sit with the Opposition

    Abbott will then have to do what Thomson said, sit with the government.

    If Thomson follows this procedure at all times, it will play hell with the Opposition. They will never be able to relax while the house sits.

  123. Mobius, thank you for that. Tim of course is quite right – freedom is a term which can be an enabler or a term used to exert power over others and justification for this. As for most things, it’s all about how it is applied.

  124. Bob, who are the two cockatoos.

    For someone not my age, a cockatoo was the person that stood near a SP Bookie, to watch out for the police

  125. Just a note by Giota on behalf of a charity. If anyone has new baby items and for children up to age 2-3yrs, email me and I’ll provide an address. It’s a very worthy cause.

  126. Dozens of Craig Thomson cardboard cutouts deployed throughout the Chamber! One of them’s the real Craig!! Which one is it???

  127. Min, CU, Sue it’s time Liealot learned that you mess with blood nuts at your peril.

    Min @9.07pm, If you Google pathological liar you’re far more likely to see Liealot writ large.

    I wonder if el gordo will apologise to Thomson after she wipes the egg off her face.

    CU @9.50pm, I love it! What a brilliant strategy! The unhinging would be spectacular! You don’t happen to be related to Niccolo Machiavelli by any chance? 😆

    I’ve just had a thought. Maybe the government could introduce Wilkie’s bill and get Thommo to head toward the opposition benches. By the time they climbed out of the adviser’s boxes, the bill would be done and dusted! 😆 😆 😆

  128. jane, it is so obvious to me. They close the doors. Everyone is massing around. They then are ordered to sit. Those who are changing sides tell the checkers or whatever they are called.

    I do not believe anyone was in on yesterday. No one but Thomson had to be. There is no conspiracy. Would it matter if there was. I would be surprised if Mr. Thomson and Labor did not keep at arms length.

    We have Abbott screaming that his vote is tainted.

    it appears the press were warned. So what. Mr. Thomson would have seen it as a chance to prove to Mr. Abbott, that he cannot make threats, and expect him to lie down.

    Just heard someone else say what he did was terrible. Why? He is now an independent that can vote for what ever he chooses.

    Mr. Abbott is amiss wanting to interfere with that vote.

    Mr. Abbott pulls stunts every day, in and out of the house. The fact is, that is all he does.

    The Drum is giving me the shits.

    The speech from last night is being pulled apart. I believe it was a good speech.
    Mr. Abbott life is nothing but stunts, he projects this onto others. Especially if the get one up on him.

    Mr. Abbott actually calls foul, for people doing what he does.

  129. El Gordo, Having you here on Cafe Talk is like winning the Spanish Loto….. 😀
    ……..( or do we have to wait til you sing….again) 🙄

  130. The credit card evidence, that has been splashed about in the media, of the Craig Thomson dalliance with prostitutes, is looking good for any court appearance.
    The “evidence” is probably why you hire lawyers rather than journalists. It is amazing just how many dodgy bits are in one picture.
    wrong name, thompson rather than thomson
    license id, wrong licence for the year in question.
    cr card payt slip, wrong colour pen, 2 different pens used, and rejection code in transaction approval/validation area.

  131. But wait a moment..I thought that Julia had reneged on her promise to Wilkie..

    The legislation will be put before Parliament this month after a trial of precommitment betting technology in the ACT.

    All new poker machines will be required to support the technology and daily $250 withdrawal limits from ATMs in pokies venues, excluding casinos.

    But Mr Abbott told Parliament he was addressing a ”new scourge” in gambling and called on the government to block the spread of gaming to tablets and smartphones.

    My bet is that many venues will stop purchasing new machines in order avoid having to comply with the technology.

    It won’t take long for some gamblers to load up their purses and wallets with $$$s prior to arriving at the club, thereby avoiding the $250 withdrawal limit..but at least it’s a start.

  132. Imagine if Julia Gillard had taken off behind Anthony Albanese and bumped Dick Adams out of the way to get to the doors and avoid a “tainted” vote.
    That, for her, would have been the ultimate humiliation and almost certainly the end of a rocky career.


    As Geoff Kitney put it in the Financial Review, Tony Abbott was determined to have the upper hand on a principle and was prepared to look a bit “unhinged” in the process. Australians have known for years that he can be a bit whacky. It’s a character trait that was on display even during the last election campaign, and it did him no real harm.
    For a prime minister, on the other hand, a lack of judgment matters far more.
    Just try and get your head around all that. The apologetics for Abbott, not just, as Cassidy tries to pretend, because he is Opposition Leader and not Prime Minister, but because he’s Abbott and we’ve all always known he’s a bit whacky. Shucks.
    Yes, why hold an alternative prime minister to the same standards as a prime minister once that alternative as already established that he’s a bit unhinged? Let’s just give him a free pass on everything because ‘whacky’ is just in his character.
    And then, just to underline the ridiculousness of this professional stance on who should and shouldn’t be held to what standards, the article also notes this:
    Even with the three key indicators – unemployment, official interest rates and inflation – all below 5 per cent (and that hasn’t happened for 40 years) Labor still trails badly.
    Worse for Labor, they face an 8 per cent deficit in the polls even though Tony Abbott has a disapproval rating of 60 per cent and threatens to be the most unpopular opposition leader ever to be elevated to the prime ministership.
    In other words, as we all know, the polls are showing that the Coalition is a strong favourite to win the next election. Cassidy notes that there could be a turnaround, but the point is, on current figures it is highly unlikely.

  133. Anyway, for all of those who’ve thought the media has been soft on Mr Abbott and disproportiately harsh on the Prime Minister, there’s your confirmation, straight from the Insider’s mouth. They not only do it: they think that’s their job.

  134. I have a feeling the next election is going to be about who the majority of voters despises most.

    In 1993, Paul Keating’s government was at 46.5 per cent just five weeks out from an election and won. In 2001, John Howard’s government was at 56.5 per cent five weeks out and polled just 51 per cent at the election. In 2004, the Howard government was at 47.5 per cent three weeks out and won. In 2010, Julia Gillard’s government was at 52 per cent three weeks out and just fell in on the day.

    Big late swings can and have happened, and the electorate has never been more volatile and less rusted on to the major parties as it is now.

    The Coalition has a big lead and for all we know the electorate may have stopped listening to Julia Gillard and her government.

  135. “Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced a $7 million grant to refurbish one of Australia’s oldest buildings, which will be used to house the Whitlam Institute, the Whitlam Prime Ministerial Library and a public art gallery named in honour of the late Margaret Whitlam.

    Ms Gillard said the announcement was designed to commemorate the 40th anniversary of his government, remarking that Mr Whitlam had kept a ”certain grandeur” while the rancour and pettiness of his opponents paled into ”merited insignificance”.

    Read more:

  136. Min, maybe they won’t . It is my experience that addicts do not go out with the intention of spending unlimited money.

    They believe that what they have will do, as this is going to be their lucky day. Others only take what they intend to spend. Will say so before they leave home.

    Before the night is out, they are begging for a loan. A loan that one does not know whether to give or not. One knows they will be angry with you the next morning for giving in.

    Min, one cannot credit rational thinking to irrational behaviour. The is what addiction to poker machines are.

    I believe poker machine addition to be different to other forms of gambling addictions. Wins do not seem to matter. any more that losing does. It appears to be playing the machine that is the goal.

  137. When it comes to the TAB. Most work out for the day, the bets they want and the money they will out lay. The fun is in going through the form and making your selection.

    There is the excitement of the race.

    It is the winning that counts.

    Yes, there are some that make the mistake of chasing what they have lost, but they are not the majority or the norm.

  138. Remember how Howard and his mob fought this from happening. Has the sky fallen in.

    TWO men have become the first same-sex couple in New South Wales to be declared the parents of a baby that was born through a surrogate, with a court ruling it was in the child’s “best interests”.
    In transferring the guardianship of the child to the two men, a Supreme Court judge was satisfied the pregnancy wasn’t the result of an illegal commercial agreement and that the woman who carried the baby wasn’t paid to do so.

    Read more:

  139. Cu @1.46pm addicts go out without a thought in their head. It’s an obsessive compulsive disorder. Most addicts have certain personality traits and perfection strangely being one of these, therefore they cannot stand to lose. Therefore in their heads it is not themselves who has lost, but that it is always everybody else’s fault.

    The above is the descriptor of the addict of the most extreme type. This extreme type has no remorse only self-justification. These are the people who need help via poker machine reform.

  140. Three days ago, the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy (the DBCDE) released a report that has swept across the Australian media like a bushfire. That report was the interim report of their review of the Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (IGA), and reactions to it have been mixed. It’s been praised (cautiously), condemned (widely) and sensationalised… but what is all the fuss really about?

    The matter at hand is online gambling, widely considered to be the “next big thing” for the gambling industry in general. Many believe that online gambling will be the end of us all, although few really have a handle on what it covers and the laws that regulate it. So to try and clear things up, here is my analysis of the DBCDE’s review of the IGA (without the sensationalism), the reactions to it, and what the future may hold.

  141. Mobius, a topic dear to my energy having a history back to ancient Greece and other cultures. Crazy isn’t it, that Australia with such an abundant resource has taken little interest in it. However, it wasn’t always so..see the Rainbow Power Company, Nimbin.

  142. The list grows and grows.

    Italy’s biggest renewable energy company, Enel Green Power (EGP), has connected a new, 76-megawatt (MW) wind farm to the grid in Canada as it expands in North America, the company said in a statement on Thursday.
    With the Castle Rock Ridge wind farm located in Canada’s southwestern Alberta region, EGP Power has raised its installed capacity in Canada to 124 MW, while the company’s total installed capacity in North America has reached 1,088 MW, it said.
    EGP, which generates power from wind, water, sunlight, biomass and the earth’s heat in 16 countries in Europe and the Americas, has an installed capacity of about 7,100 MW.
    Analysts see EGP’s broad geographic and technological mix as its strength, but they have been concerned about the company’s ability to keep up its current pace of capacity growth.
    The new wind farm in Canada will generate more than 200 million kilowatt hours (KWh) a year and help avoid emissions of more than 130,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually.

  143. Daniel Palmer
    The rise of solar PV has been rapid in Australia, with installations surging since 2008. The staggering degree of growth, illustrated in the first graph of the week below, has led to solar PV claiming 3 per cent of the electricity generation capacity in Australia and a 1 per cent share of consumption, according to the Australian PV Association’s PV in Australia 2011 report.

  144. ‘…addicts go out without a thought in their head. It’s an obsessive compulsive disorder.’

    Like shopping for a bargain.

  145. El gordo, you aren’t wrong there..gambling addition often goes hand in hand with an addiction for shopping. Spend, spend, spend. Or else the person can go entirely in the other direction and become frugal to the point of ridiculous obsessions. It’s a mental illness and should be treated as such with harm minimisation.

  146. ‘…harm minimisation.’

    A deep world recession may force many to go cold turkey…except for the rich and fatuous.

    The addiction to bargain hunting is apparently a feminine trait, written on the hard drive for purposes of survival, so they will continue to seek out a bargain no matter what their economic plight.

  147. El gordo, hardly. The gambling industry haven’t put the majority of their machines into the poorer neighborhoods without a reason. A chance to escape from their situation by being “lucky”.

    I wouldn’t be generalistic about bargain hunting being a feminine trait. There is a big difference between shopping with a purpose and shopping from an addiction. There are also 2 sides to that coin, the hoarder and the compulsive shopper…all about acquisition.

    The compulsive shopper might for example go out and buy 6 things – take them back and exchange them – take them back again, and again. The thing about this disorder is that it is not the objects which they purchase but the obsessive compulsiveness of having to shop.

    It’s an interesting spectrum of disorders…and almost always those suffering from this mental illness and indeed it is a mental illness receive an adrenaline it playing the pokies or from compulsive shopping.

  148. From TPS, i didn’t know Abbott has his interviews edited. No wonder Kerry got the boot from 7.30, and why Uhlmann doesn’t get to talk over the top of Abbott.

    “He prefers interviews with sycophantic shock jocks and seeks pre-recording of important interviews on ABC TV, some of which are edited. He is a failure when the going gets rough. People ask how he would cope with the questions that he would have to answer were he to become PM. ”

  149. Good bye to a decent, down to earth woman.

    Ms Holborow – children’s advocate, magistrate, author and mum – died after a short battle with cancer on May 23.

    She was farewelled at a packed funeral in Sydney on Friday.

    Her casket arrived at St Stephen’s Uniting Church escorted by bikies on 14 Harley Davidsons and left to the applause and tears of mourners.

    Her great friend, the Reverend Bill Crews, described how he sat with the 81-year-old Sydneysider as she lay dying: he was struggling to comfort her and both knew she only had hours left.

    PS, the lady summed my ex up, and I believe gave my son a chance to get his life back in order. I appeared before her on numerous occasions. in my role as DO.

  150. “didn’t know Abbott has his interviews edited”

    I would hate to see how bad he come across before they were edited. They were still poor when they went to air.

  151. CU
    I wonder how many walk offs have to be editied out and of course the questions that cause them?

  152. Thanx Min. Humans are complex and in our hunt for ‘harm minimisation’ I’m thinking the panacea may be found in a yet undiscovered drug.

  153. Where is el gordo at today. Maybe some drugs were left behind and she tried them out.

  154. Some time back I took on a full time job as a carer’s relief and I had the opportunity of looking after all sorts for quite some time.

    Dementia patients were easy, but then there were the poly drug users with burnt out brains, compulsives and those with split personalities.

    The latter worried me the most and I told my boss I believe them…’why are you keeping this perfectly sane person locked up?’

    She took me off that work pretty quickly.

  155. No, its all real. I’m not a funny person.

    Sometimes I did ‘over nighters’ with complete nutters in places like Kings Cross and elegant Potts Point mansions. Drama was the norm.

    The old people without family needed checking and I got ‘regulars’ in slums and council houses. So many stories to tell, it was an emotionally draining experience.

  156. Sue and The credit card evidence, that has been splashed about in the media, of the Craig Thomson dalliance with prostitutes, is looking good for any court appearance.
    The “evidence” is probably why you hire lawyers rather than journalists. It is amazing just how many dodgy bits are in one picture.
    wrong name, thompson rather than thomson
    license id, wrong licence for the year in question.
    cr card payt slip, wrong colour pen, 2 different pens used, and rejection code in transaction approval/validation area.

    A mere detail, my good woman. He’s as guilty as sin as long as you ignore the evidence! 😯

  157. ‘Greg Withers today quit as a senior public servant just weeks after the Campbell Newman government disbanded the climate change office he had headed since 2007.’

    Take note, Abbott will do the same and dismantle the Klimatariat.

  158. el gordo, I suggest you watch Capital Hill. It was very revealing. Yes, the media can still do or when they want to. There was a lit of myths put to bed on the CEF and the price on carbon coming in.
    I do not believe the world is coming to an end.

    Now I bet the Drum, will not live up the the quality of tonight’s Capital Hill.

  159. Double FFS

    “It defies belief that nobody ever had a light-bulb moment and thought: “Ah … this may be a conflict of interest.”

    Iain Ross (chair FWA)stated in a senate committee that because Lawler is a sworn judicial officer and had taken an oath, he would not investigate complaints of bias or conflicts of interest.”

    Triple FFS Ian Ross, whatever were you thinking? Haven’t you heard the one of the judicial officer jailed for saying a dead person drove his car. It is now on the record that judicial officers are now known to lie.

  160. Lead researcher, Dr Joelle Gergis from the University of Melbourne said the results showed that there are no other warm periods in the last 1000 years that match the warming experienced in Australasia since 1950.
    “Our study revealed that recent warming in a 1000 year context is highly unusual and cannot be explained by natural factors alone, suggesting a strong influence of human-caused climate change in the Australasian region,” she said.
    The study published today in the Journal of Climate will form the Australasian region’s contribution to the 5th IPCC climate change assessment report chapter on past climate.
    She said using what is known as ‘palaeoclimate’ or natural records, such as tree rings, corals and ice cores, are fundamental in evaluating regional and global climate variability over centuries before direct temperature records started in 1910.
    Dr Gergis collated these natural records provided by decades of work by more than 30 researchers from Australia, New Zealand and around the world.

  161. Yeah…”suggesting a strong influence of human-caused climate change in the Australasian region,”

    She’s wrong.

  162. It never ends, positives being turned into negativism.

    Yes, the PM is now fighting back. What Mr. Oakes ignores, is that bullies fall to pieces when challenged.

    No Mr. Oakes, it is not a given that the PM and government will fail.

    Mr. Oakes, you have been around long enough to know polls can and so change, sometimes overnight.

    Yes, Mr. Abbott is among the greatest when spreading lies and fears.

    Mr. Abbott has a big problem, his campaign is based on blatant lies. This did not worry him, as he was so sure of his power and might, the PM would have lied down and dies by now, the lies would not have mattered.

    The PM is made is made of sterner stuff, that Mr. Abbott gave credit for. Yes, Mr. Abbott, she is only a girl, but she is also your superior. She is a doer, a builder, not just a wrecker.

    The battle is now on. May the best woman win.

    Abbott is doing what opposition leaders almost always do. What they have to do. But he stands out because he is better at it than most. His roonism has been at its most devastating in the demonisation of the carbon tax. And the government – partly because it is handicapped by public outrage over Gillard’s broken election promise – has appeared unable, even unwilling, to put up a fight.

    Interestingly that changed this week. A coalition front-bencher – environment spokesman Greg Hunt – can take part of the credit. Gillard staffers noticed that, in a radio interview, Hunt seemed uncomfortable with questions about some of the opposition’s claims over the last 12 months of devastating economic consequences when the carbon pricing system comes into force on July 1st.
    Q: By your assessment, how soon will the economy be wrecked?

    A: Oh, what we’re going to see is a progressive impact. It’s like the python – it will simply be tighter and tighter.

    Q: What about Whyalla, which Tony Abbott predicted would be a ghost town? How soon will Whyalla be a ghost town?

    A: Well, I think what you’ll find is that there is a real risk to the smelting operations.

    A decision was made to go all-out in parliament to remind voters of Abbott’s more outlandish statements, so he can be held to account when the dire predictions don’t come to pass.

    Newspoll, showing a slight lift in Labor’s primary vote and Gillard back in front as preferred prime minister, was a help. Ministers, who for months have seemed despairing and demoralised, suddenly showed some fight. And, surprisingly, Climate Change Minister Greg Combet emerged as the star of the show.

    I say surprisingly because, until now, Combet’s lacklustre performance had made his predecessor in the portfolio, Penny Wong, look dynamic.

    For a bloke touted as a possible future Labor leader when he entered parliament, the former ACTU boss had made remarkably little impact. But there he was on Thursday, striding to the despatch box and flicking the switch to vaudeville.

    Describing Abbott’s campaign as “complete and utter rubbish, nonsense, false, a fraud and a fabrication”, Combet told the House: “He has predicted the death of Gladstone, the death of the La Trobe Valley, the death of Portland, the death of the Hunter region – Illawarra, Kwinana, Whyalla, and the story goes on…

    “It reminds you a bit of the old Lucky Starr song from the 1960s, I’ve Been Everywhere.”

    At which point Combet burst into song.

    “Cabramatta, Parramatta, Wangaratta, Coolangatta – but the punchline is: ‘Everywhere is doomed, man’.”

    Paul Keating and Peter Costello would have been proud.

    Combine this ministerial muscling up with coalition admissions that carbon price compo cheques are going over well with some voters, and there just might be a chance of Labor picking up more ground.

    But it won’t be enough to save the government from election defeat.

    Abbott’s roonism skills, helped by the government’s uncanny ability to stuff-up the politics of almost any situation, will see to that.

  163. CU

    I read Oakes closing remarks and thought he was a bit brave declaring an election result this far out.

    And Tweed if you are about, this might scare you;

    “During a luncheon address on Wednesday, Abbott conceded to mining bosses that while a ”tax that’s been put in place by legislation can be removed by legislation” that there was also ”no doubt that there are measures associated with both the mining tax and the carbon tax that will be difficult to undo”.

    He was merely stating the obvious, but after almost two years of insisting the taxes would be thrown out by a Coalition government, the statement sounded very much like a back-pedal – or maybe just a half-pedal in the reverse direction. It took shadow treasurer Joe Hockey, under questioning the same day, to insist: ”We will repeal the carbon tax, in full.

    Read more:

  164. “She freaked when the AWU walked into her office,” was how one participant in the process described it. “She just lost it,” said another.

    ‘This moment illuminated the real “Real Julia”. It showed up two realities which are not customarily on public display. First, it showed that she feels herself to be dependent on the unions for her leadership, and on the AWU in particular, whose affiliated MPs supplied at least 20 of the 71 votes she won in her leadership ballot against Rudd in February.’

    Read more:

  165. EG
    but who has the image of cutting and running and who has the image of standing firm.

    run rabbott run rabbott run run run……….. he won’t run that tag down

  166. Sue @7.38am, that confirms exactly what Tony Windsor stated some considerable time ago..that the legislation was formed deliberately so as to make it almost impossible for any incoming Liberal government to wind back.

  167. MIn
    It takes a while for the penny to drop, when you are not concerned with facts just the drive for “rightful” power.
    Now who will be the next penny, Ashby or Jackson?

  168. Sue, I often think that the msm is making itself to look even more stupid than it already does. If they bury important issues under trivia, then they run the risk of forgetting the important and when called on to comment..start to look just plain stupid.

  169. ‘…legislation was formed deliberately so as to make it almost impossible for any incoming Liberal government to wind back.’

    Greg Combet’s financial landmine will blow up in Labor’s face.

  170. “She’s wrong.”

    Prove it with a credible scientific rebuff or else you really are doing nothing but trolling here. It’s so very easy to assertively post one sentence, or in this case two word, negativities, after all your gormless hero Abbott does it all the time and you seem to follow his MO, but the real credibility and mettle is to do the hard yards and backup those assertions or they really are nothing but trolls.

  171. Greg Combet’s financial landmine will blow up in Labor’s face.

    Again a throwaway one sentence piece of nonsense posted only to troll. Please explain just how it will blow up in Labor’s face and just how it’s a financial landmine. No nonsense crystal ball or OO repeated stuff but a lucid projection on how it will do as you assert and proof that the legislation was deliberately formed so as to make it impossible to wind back.

    Methinks this is the Liberal apparatchiks already trying to make excuses for Abbott failing if he gets into government, just as Abbott is starting to retract on his assertions (there you go asserting just like you) knowing full well they are nonsense (there you go nonsense just like yours).

  172. ‘Prove it with a credible scientific rebuff or else you really are doing nothing but trolling here.’

    She’s probably right that it hasn’t been this hot in 1000 years, but linking it to human induced global warming marks her out as a watermelon.


    This weekend marks 20 years since the High Court of Australia handed down its landmark native title decision which would come to be known as Mabo. That name has become synonymous with the nation’s Indigenous land rights movement. The legacies of both the decision and the man who came to symbolise the fight for recognition continue to resonate around the country. And a warning to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander viewers that this story contains images of deceased people.

    Natalie Poyhonen
    Source: 7.30 NT | Duration: 6min 49sec

  174. If Julia had gone to the last election with the open intent of introducing a carbon tax, she would have lost.

    So it stands to reason that anything Combet has done to make it harder to dismantle the CO2 tax will only work against Labor in the long run.

  175. el gordo, what is important and the only thing important is the actions and results of the PM.

    The decision was made in relation to EMS.

    The PM was aware of what occurred.

    The PM had opportunity to change the policy.

    The policy was announced unchanged.

    The policy is needed to ensure the mines goes ahead.

    It is the tright thing to do.

    What is not important is the allegations of whom the PM may have or not spoke too.

    el gordo, you can read what you like into innuendo and rumours, that is your right. It does not mean you are correct. It does not lessen the quality of action taken.

    el gordo, I know you have miraculous power of knowing how the voters would have vote, if the PM said she would bring in a carbon tax.

    You could be right, as I would have reconsider my vote if she said she would.

    Now if she said that she would not address carbon emissions by a ETS type scheme, I would have been voting with the Greens or watermelons as you call them.

    Secondly there were many issues raised in the last election campaign and as most voters are not as you are. obsessed with climate change, you have no idea what influence their vote.

    I must admit with the close election results and the polls, a strong economy, low interest rates, lower taxes and spending, low unemployment and low inflation does not count.

    It appears that the hip pocket does not have influence on how one votes.

    It appears it is all about perceptions, with no one concerned that the perceptions are based on lies and misinformation.

    No el gordo, what the PM said on the night before the election had no influence on the results. I say this, because most, including you did not hear what she said. The PM was correcting the impression that saying no to a carbon tax, was saying no to an ETS or similar market based scheme.

    el gordo, the PM is not being condemned for her policies she has introduced. There is very little criticism in that regard.

    The PM is being criticized for how she had enacted, all these successful new legalization.

    Results do not count in the eyes of many. All that counts, is the way they perceive how she does the job.

    A little short sighted in my opinion.

    I will stick to results and their value.

    I will stick with a builder, not a demolisher.

    I will stick with a doer, not a talker.

    I will do this, as long as our economy continues to flourish, especially as it is one of the world’s best.

    I will stick with the one, that has the foresight to put into place the infrastructure for a strong future.

    I am not interest in one that is still struck back in the middle of last century, that has no plans for now, let alone the future.

  176. ‘Now if she said that she would not address carbon emissions by a ETS type scheme, I would have been voting with the Greens or watermelons as you call them.’

    The watermelons have rooned my party.

  177. el gordo, Cowdery has been saying this for a long time. He is not alone in his beliefs.

    The war on drugs has not lessened the plague, in fact it has increased.

    Prohibition has led to big profits, attracting the criminal interest.

    It provides a outlet for crime, takes up much police time and is expensive.

    Not a rational place to be in, many believe.

    Taking the police and courts out of the picture might lead to less drugs being in the community. Criminals are only interested in big money.

    None are saying that drugs are not a problem, or that the problem should be addressed.

    They are saying the war on drugs is not working.

    It is a health and social problem, that is not best dealt with by the law.

  178. Surprisingly, not even in the land of free enterprise can provide a broadband network that all have access to. The government has to move in to fill the gaps.

    any municipalities and rural county governments in the US are stepping up to fill a void, providing their citizens with taxpayer-subsidized broadband internet access, services that the private sector has so far neglected to provide. Economies of scale mean that areas without high speed internet get it, and low-income people without access to the internet are at least one step closer. A valuable public service is provided at a very low cost to the individual.

    But for obvious reasons, some telcos, cable companies, and ISP’s hate it, and they are taking their objections to legislators in state houses across the country. Claiming it’s all about “fairness,” a private industry that has long lobbied for deregulation, now wants to impose restrictions on cities and local governments that would effectively spell the end of public-broadband.


    The core idea at the heart of the legislation is that it’s somehow not fair for a local government (which pays no taxes and has no need to turn a profit) to compete in the marketplace with private companies who are just trying to make an honest buck. Even for ardent free-marketeers, the idea that government might be “taking over” things that “should be” handled by the private sector is frightening enough to shake their convictions. It’s an argument often heard in the healthcare debate, and, to some, it is an interesting, amazingly complex question with delicate interplays between competing interests and with “no clear” answers…you know, it’s nuanced.

  179. Cu, it’s probably not worth asking a question of a person who is disinclined to provide answers..accusations, but no answers.

  180. Min, I thought out of respect to el gordo, I would ask. I do believe the matter to warrant serious discussion.

    One would think that most would realise in this modern age the best way of dealing with social and health problems is not the law. If fact the law interferes with workable solutions being found.

    The threat of punishment prevents very little alleged crimes. In fact, the only role for prisons I see, is to hold those whose behavior is a threat to public safety

    One should always question the agendas of all those who profess moral outrage.

    Indeed one should treat any moral outrage with suspicion.

  181. I’m quite happy to discuss drug law reform, which will go a long way in emptying the gaols.

    Obviously the soft drugs like cannabis should be legalised, regulated and taxed. It’s a divisive issue, but economic good sense should prevail in the difficult times ahead.

    An education program pointing the inherent evils of the substance should be on every packet sold, just like cigarettes.

    It might be wise if O’Farrell looks at what is happening overseas first.

  182. el gordo, is it as easy as that. I believe not.

    One has to overcome the perception that all social problems can be dealt with more laws, police and jails.

    Is one willing to lay out the money and resources that would be needed to deal with the harm that drug usage causes to people and the community.

    Os one willing to intervene early and at the source, the money we now expend on results.

    We had a study this week, pointing out that children that end up in care, also fill our jails down the track.

    The simple answer given, that it is poor fostering that is too blame. I suggest one has to look back much further in these children;s life to find answers.

    By the time these children are removed they are so damaged and removable makes the problem worse.

    They are removed from dysfunctional homes. Homes that are dysfunctional because of drug abuse, mental illness criminality of the parents, and just cruel and selfish parents. Homes were the parents did not have the ability to care for their children inappropriately.

    The sad part is that many of these parents love their children dearly. More sad, is that the children love their parents, whether love is there or not,

    Throughout history children have often been roved because parents did not live up to society norm and value judgement of those who removed the,.

    Then because the problem became to big, and many realise removable in itself could be abuse, the children were left in the homes. Removable became a no no.

    The result of that is the record number being remove, but removed much to late. Many are damaged beyond repair.

    It is said that the workers are to blame and the resources are not available. It could just be too late for some of theses children. Others will struggle through and come out OK at the other end.

    Most will fill out jails, drug and mental institutions. Another generation lost, left alone to repeat history over again with their own families, which many will go on to have.

    The institutions and jails we grow to accommodate them.

    We have to be prepared to outlay the money and resource from the day these children are born. It will have to follow them throughout their childhood.

    Yes, there is place for removable. This place is very early in the piece, before there is permanent damage. They should be returned as soon as possible it that can be done.

    Parents need to know that society is not going to stand by and allow them to destroy their children It will be the choice of the parent where the children end up. They make the unnecessary changes or they lose them.

    Most parents will never be perfect, but if they try, and supports can be put in place to alleviate the damage they do to their children, this would be a good outcome.

    Yes, it is expensive, but so are courts, jails and institutions.

    Yes, el gordo, I am in favour of change,

    This country emptied the jails of the UK and bought them to our shores. Within a short time, these criminals and no hopers laid the ground work for this country of ours. They built the roads the building and tilled the land.

    The soldiers that guarded them contributed little. In fact the opposite was true.

    Recall the Rim rebellion among other scandals. The corruption was found among these landed gentlemen.

    Most of the convicts took advantage of the opportunities and made good.

    Few returned to their homeland. Fewer would have made it,if they were not transported.

  183. THE Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has described the Mabo decision as a ”sublime” moment in Australia’s history.

    ”This was a judgment of the High Court at its finest,” she told Parliament, acknowledging the former Labor prime minister Paul Keating’s role of inscribing native title in Australian law.

    ”It was an act of courage and conviction … and a reminder that the big things, the great things in Australian politics never come easily, but are always purchased at a high price, but a price worth paying.”

    The Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, said it was a very important milestone for indigenous Australians. ”The challenge for us now is to ensure that land is not just a spiritual asset to Aboriginal people but an economic asset too,” he said.

    The Indigenous Affairs Minister, Jenny Macklin, conceded there was still work to be done on the issue of home ownership on native title land.

    The opposition’s justice spokesman, Michael Keenan, said the story of Eddie Mabo and his fellow claimants was compelling. The Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, said the Keating government’s decision to legislate sparked hate, lies and threats.

    ”Some opposite may actually be feeling a little uncomfortable as they remember how some of their own whipped up fear amongst the masses,” she said.

  184. el gordo, why would that help. I have not raised drugs or their effects. I am talking about how we should approach changing how we deal with the matter.

    I spent many years working in the field. I studied at uni. I have live among them.

    Another article will not inform me of anything I do not know.

    What I am talking about is the perception the community has, that a new law is the answer for every problem that society faces. This and the moral outrage that seems to be alive and flourishing.

    Yes, I do believe that cannabis is a stronger drug now. I do believe it causes much trouble. I so believe that it can bring on mental illness in those prone to mental illness.

    It is my experience, it can cause more harm than narcotics and other drugs in the community.

    I am also aware, that like tobacco, not all are effected the same way.

    I do not believe that a war against drugs is the answer.

    What I am interested in how you would change things.

  185. Cu and ”This was a judgment of the High Court at its finest,” she told Parliament.

    It indeed was, especially the ruling of Justice Kirby whose logic and argument cannot be faulted. Justice Kirby is interesting as although he was often a dissenting voice, his rulings are referred to more often due to his expertise and logical argument.

  186. Miglo,

    No offense intended to silkworm at all. IsNotATax. I think that silkworm would agree with me on that one.

  187. ‘What I am interested in how you would change things.’

    Drug law reform is essential, we cannot prevent people’s desire to be intoxicated. Alcohol is the most pernicious drug in society, greatly lauded, a clear consensus that its the intoxicant of choice.

    In other countries the culture is entirely different, but it came as a surprise to discover we have a particular appetite for hooch.

    ‘A study published in The Lancet released earlier this year found people living in the Oceania region – made up of Australia and New Zealand – were the biggest cannabis users in the world.’

    Did someone mention a tax?

  188. el gordo, it is not as simple as changing laws.

    It is about going back to basic and starting again.

    The question to be asked, why is the law is involved at all.

  189. eg and <em.That’s a lie, Craig Thomson wins by a mile.

    Evidence, please eg. Not your preconceived prejudice or Liealot’s assertions. You know, something like a conviction for an offence that he has been charged with.

    And if Julia had gone to the last election with the open intent of introducing a carbon tax, she would have lost.

    Bullshit eg. She said on the eve of the election there would be no carbon tax but that she was open to a carbon pricing scheme transitioning to an ETS. And guess what? That’s exactly what we’ve got.

    No lie and no change of position. She’s done just what she said she would, no matter how you spin it or try to put words in her mouth. End of story.

    Next red herring.

    Did someone mention a tax?

    On alcopops, mayhap?

  190. The law is involved in every facet of our lives, so it’s necessary to change them first before we can enter phase 2 of the Oceania experiment.

  191. ‘She said on the eve of the election…’

    We have been over this ground many times and I agree she did say it, but it was aimed at the watermelon vote. The rest of the electorate failed to notice, so they were pissed off when she formed a minority government and introduced the CO2 tax.

    Incredibly divisive and politically stupid.

  192. el gordo do you ever read what you write, I would suggest you do.

    The law is not involved in every facet of our lives.

    Drugs once were not illegal.

    Heroine was easily obtained. There was little problem unlike today.

    Look at what happened when they prohibited alcohol in the land of the free.

  193. I know the history of all those intoxicants, but there is no going back to some idealised time. We have to face reality if these hurdles are to be jumped.

  194. El gordo,

    You are not talking factual information, just talking in trite phrases. What is the point of your conversation, how about letting us in on the secret.

  195. el gordo, you said the rest of the community never noticed. Therefore how could it have influence the vote, if they did not notice.

  196. “some idealised time”

    I gave no idea what you are talking about. Do you.

    There was never an idealized time. Things were pretty tough then, with depressions and war.

    It was with the arrival of the USA fleets on I & R that drugs raised there ugly heads.

    The reaction was to bring in laws and make them illegal. The action taken does not appear to be a success.

    It is just a fact that when drugs were not illegal, the problem, was not worse.

  197. ‘…how could it have influence the vote, if they did not notice.’

    As I mentioned before, if she had been explicit and said I’m going to introduce a carbon tax… then Labor would have lost the election.

  198. When rum was currency in the early colony, cannabis was used as a cure for alcoholism.

  199. ‘What is the point of your conversation, how about letting us in on the secret.’

    I’m attempting to say a lot with few words, sometimes I fail to communicate.

  200. Maybe Migs, but I have spoken to many ex-Labor people since then and the story is always the same.

  201. Gillard won the election because she was able to successfully negotiate with the indies. These same indies later formed the working party for the carbon tax, now etched in concrete according to Windsor.

  202. el gordo, how more explicit can one be.

    The PM said there would be no carbon tax. In the next breath the PM said she would be addressing climate change with a market based cost on carbon emission.

    Where you aware.

    I am not going to bring in a carbon tax. Did you believe the PM would not address climate change, Did you believe that there would be some type of ETS

    Yes she did say there had to be community consensus,

  203. Maybe we could introduce an Abbott Tax……. after all he’s very taxing……. we could call it a BS sequestration tax…… or if not a ‘tax’ a ‘price’ on lieing…… 😀

  204. ‘Did you believe the PM would not address climate change, Did you believe that there would be some type of ETS’

    As a professed watermelon you are out of touch with the rank and file Labor voters who were taken by surprise. We don’t believe taxing CO2 will save the planet and we never imagined climate change was going to be front and centre.

    Silly us…anyhoo…we won’t make the same mistake next time.

  205. el gordo, if you are representives of a Labor voter I am not too sure I want to be connected to it.

    I am a Labor voter through and through.

    I believe in a fair go, justice and looking after the planet.

    I am not arrogant enough to profess I know what other Labor people are thinking.

    You are a fraud and capable of nothing but throwing insults.

  206. eg, once and for all THERE IS NO CARBON TAX!

    Do you actually know what a tax is?

    A fee charged (“levied”) by a government on a product, income, or activity. If tax is levied directly on personal or corporate income, then it is a direct tax. Like income tax or the Medicare levy and you can’t avoid paying it, unlike the carbon price.

    The carbon price will not be extracted from your income.. It will be paid by the 500 biggest emitters, who can avoid paying by lowering their emissions.

    But please tell us if at the end of the financial year your accountant includes an impost for carbon emissions along with income tax and the medicare levy. Luckily for you, I don’t think hot air is regarded as a carbon emission, so you’re safe.

  207. ‘You are a fraud and capable of nothing but throwing insults.’


    If Julia was overthrown by Smith or Rudd within weeks and the new PM shelved the tax, because of the European meltdown, what would be your reaction?

  208. El Gordo, I just want to thank you… I actually read your posts and follow your (seldom) links… they are very informative, no really… I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed (read: Cafe) and your postings show me how not to be.. again, thanks for that and your input here in/on the Cafe, your like a ‘claytons mentor’ !!!! :mrgreen: 😀 😆

  209. el gordo, I would say we get the governments we deserve.

    I would then say, poor fellow my country.

    I would remind myself there will be elections again in three years.

    I would accept the government, as long as it is duly elected according to the Constitution and is legit.

    I would then sit back, fold my arms and watch the farce that will emerge.

    I fear I will not enjoy it, but that is democracy. Sometimes we get it right, others, terribly wrong.

  210. Cu, Im hoping and counting on ‘word of mouth’ advertising to win through, Iv been showing and talking about Wixxy’s posts to all and sundry…. I suggest that all here, (el gordo, Geoff, Iain ‘n co are excused), do the same……show and tell how the msm are doing the ‘job’….. show ‘n tell how the top end of town expects, na, deserves to be subsidised by the bottom end of town( cant expect them to pay their own way 🙂 )….. show ‘n tell the ‘Buffett Rule'( Millionairs Price, umm, Tax :D)….. show ‘n tell the lies and deceit’s that the manic monk perpetuates and thinks its “how” an opposition is supposed to be…….and dont stop ‘show’n and tell’n’ til Tonys ears bleed with the sound of NO……. 😆

  211. LOVO, this is as nasty as it gets. The PM is now ready to fight back. She has prepared the ground work well. The government have many runs on the board.

    All the stunts and beat ups are going nowhere.

    The media are beginning to cut Mr. Abbott off when he begins his rant.

    He is beginning to come across, as the bully he is.

    LOVO, I do believe that the likes of el gordo are clutching straws.

    Less than a month now.

  212. Barry O is the man to bring about law reform.

    ‘The definition of domestic violence will be expanded to include emotional manipulation, withholding money and harming the family pet under controversial changes to family law.

    ‘The changes, which become law on Thursday, for the first time broaden the definition of violence beyond physical abuse to other damaging actions…’

    Read more:

  213. EG

    the article you link is about a law from Attorney General Nicola Roxon.

    Try again to find Barrel O ‘Lies

  214. Dr Roy Spencer again el gordo?

    I’ve posted all the rebuffs of Spencer before, and there are a lot of them as his methodology is very flawed, so am not going do all that again, as you are just regurgitating it to troll.

    You keep posting links to images of graphs with no context, and in this one under an opening line as a barb.

    So in posting that link with no context are you now saying the globe is warming (natural or otherwise) or cooling? I can’t follow what position you are taking as it changes day to day.

  215. El gordo

    this is mote like the reform we expect from Barrel o ‘Lies

    “The government bus fleet may be handed over to the private sector.

    Government buses could be privatised before the next election as the state government looks to cut hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies to the State Transit Authority.”

    I suppose the voters should have a look towards the lieberal party donors to see who benefits.

  216. O’Farrell has broken every major election promise and in many ways has turned out to be worse than the government he replaced.

    Every indicator has gone down since he took power as he more or less did nothing in his first 14 months in office, and even now when there are mutterings of him being a do nothing Premier in the public he comes out and brings in a few tokenistic policies and his only major one of selling of the power generators is on the back of a major broken promise.

    Law and order, what a joke el gordo. Look at the stats on crime since “get tough” O’Farrell got into power. Lawlessness has rocketed under him. In this he follows his Liberal Premier mate Barnett in WA, who also campaigned heavily on law and order issues, only to see crime increase since he has been in power and break his promises on law and order.

    O’Farrell in opposition made almost daily appearances in the media lambasting Labor government policy and projects without offering any alternatives, like Abbott is doing now. But in the election campaign he made a bunch of grand promises and the promise he would fix things. That was his main theme, that he would immediately get down to work and fix things.

    Problem is, not only is O’Farrell doing many of the same things he heavily criicised Labor for doing, and actually making the same excuses he criticised when in opposition, and he’s also using the Federal government’s excuses, he’s failing across just about every other area he promised he would immediatel fix. So much so that he’s shoved many of them off to distant timeframe committees, yep a Rudd tactic that he criticised at the time, so even when he does finally get around to addressing them they will be so much worse and cost far more to fix.

    O’Farrell is failing and failing badly, which was probably lead to another decade plus State Labor governemnt after the Liberals second term this time round.

  217. ME
    A letter to the Newcastle Herald
    “Why is it when a Liberal breaks an election promise it’s a backflip and when a Labor prime minister breaks an election promise it’s a lie.”

    The journalist disagrees with this sentiment even though he goes on and describes how O’Farrel broke every pre-elction commitment in the new FOI laws.

    “It would be unfair to suggest O’Farrell has a credibility problem anything like Julia Gillard’s but his grand vision of a ”new era” in accountability and openness in state government is at the very least tarnished.

    Read more:

  218. El gordo @7.43am. It is well and truly overdue that psychological abuse was included in legislation pertaining to domestic violence. Well done to Roxon for acting on this.

  219. ‘…are you now saying the globe is warming (natural or otherwise) or cooling?’

    Doesn’t look like its warming, but I’m happy to accept whatever happens.

  220. Thanks, Sue. Other people are linking to that article about Speaker Slipper’s ex-wife too. Very heartening to read, wasn’t it!

  221. patriciawa
    it was good to see a positive article about slipper, as she said he is the father of their 3 children. and also that they all met up a xmas time.

  222. Not a liar or a crook or an embarrassmnet to his electorate, just “troubled” according to the herald sun

    “TROUBLED State MP Geoff Shaw is at the centre of yet another controversy for failing to disclose interests in a private company.
    The Frankston Liberal MP is accused of breaking three of eight conditions of the Members of Parliament (Register of Interests) Act – the critical law Victorian politicians must follow to avoid allegations of insider trading and corruption.”

    What no cry of shame or abuse of a party cover up by the HS, to this:

    “Whistleblowers associated with Mr Shaw’s private company were gagged last week by the investigating committee, headed by Liberal Speaker Ken Smith.

  223. “The definition of domestic violence will be expanded to include emotional manipulation, withholding money and harming the family pet under controversial changes to family law.

    ‘The changes, which become law on Thursday, for the first time broaden the definition of violence beyond physical abuse to other damaging actions…’”

    About time. It is this type of abuse that does the most harm

    Yes Family Law is Federal.

    Well done PM.

    Another plus, that many have missed.

    Thanks el gordo

    PS It needs to be extended to state criminal laws, including AVO’s.

  224. “Not what the Peter Slipper opponents would expect from an ex-wife, a supportive article”

    Comment on Insiders from a guest. Will not bother with names. An aside, well there is a media contract is it, is there not.

  225. THE opposition now has no excuses about how to handle its policy costings.
    A chief of the new Parliamentary Budget Office was finally appointed last week. Phil Bowen has an impressive CV. He’s been Australia’s director on the Asian Development Bank since 2007 and before that a senior Finance Department official.
    He takes up his new job next month. The Parliamentary Budget Office will give the Coalition a chance to get its policies tickTHE opposition now has no excuses about how to handle its policy costings.
    A chief of the new Parliamentary Budget Office was finally appointed last week. Phil Bowen has an impressive CV. He’s been Australia’s director on the Asian Development Bank since 2007 and before that a senior Finance Department official.
    He takes up his new job next month. The Parliamentary Budget Office will give the Coalition a chance to get its policies ticked off by an independent group that will command bipartisan respect.
    Advertisement: Story continues below
    Costings have been a bane for Tony Abbott. The Coalition was embarrassed after the 2010 election when its numbers were challenged, during the period of negotiations with the independents, by a Treasury analysis that found a large hole. Never mind that the opposition argued the toss over some Treasury assertions and that part of the discrepancy could be put down to different assumptions. It looked bad. As it did when the opposition’s Perth accountants received a dressing down from their professional association for breaching standards.
    Then loose opposition talk has given the government grist to say that the Coalition has a $70 billion funding gap. Repeated often enough, it imprints itself in people’s minds, regardless of the facts.
    The Coalition insists it has its policies in the bag – they have to be updated closer to the election of course – and plenty of offsetting savings to cover them. It also says it will use the Parliamentary Budget Office between now and the campaign. During that time it can get full confidentiality – it can, for example, have a policy costed and then, if there is a dispute over the figures, have another look and send it in again. But it says it won’t use the office during the campaign because, under the rules, the costings for policies submitted then would be released publicly by the office when they were done, compromising the opposition’s flexibility in timing announcements.
    The Coalition would be better to declare that, unless exceptional circumstances arose, it would rely on the office entirely. The distinction between the campaign period and beforehand should not be relevant (unless there is some last-minute policy idea). The opposition should have the policies it announces during the campaign costed before, in the ”confidential” period (anyway Abbott says it is not going to be one of those a-policy-a-day campaigns, though one remains sceptical).
    Oppositions previously have been caught between having to use private bodies for their costings or, in the campaign, the Treasury, of which they tend to be suspicious. The system has put the Treasury in an awkward position too. If the office works well, it has the potential to serve both the public interest and the interests of this and future oppositions.

    Read more:

  226. This is where Savva got her aside from. Ignores that the ex appears to be experience in politics herself.

    Would increase her sales better, I believe if she put boot into her ex.

    Although Ms Slipper was widely considered to be a better political operator and campaigner than her former husband, she found it frustrating that as the wife of an MP she too was expected to be seen and not heard. She is now writing a humorous novel based on her political experiences and observations.
    ”For 40 years I’ve turned the other cheek. Now I’m in a position to have my say. I feel quite liberated,” she said.

    Read more:

  227. Interesting to read what Lyn Slipper had to say about her ex-husband. I’ll bet there are precious few ex-spouses who share such a good relationship.

    Fantastic also wrt Roxon’s expansion of the definition of domestic abuse. Long overdue. Congratulations Minister Roxon.

  228. Jane, precious few and that’s for certain. Lyn Slipper clearly saw lies and injustice. It doesn’t necessarily mean that she and ex get on all that well, but that she knew injustice and felt morally bound to correct the record.

  229. That nasty aside was from Nikki Savva about Peter Slipper’s wife’s book contract on Insiders. Come to think of it, there’s probably some truth in that, but still the same would be true if she had nasty stuff to say about him. Reading between the lines of that article seems as if she’s an experienced enough media interviewee to set out her conditions for the interview beforehand, and in writing! Good on her

  230. Min, it seems that their relationship is more civilised than most. They must have been able to resolve their differences without rancour.

    Whatever the reason, I dips me lid. I don’t know whether I’d be so nice.

    patricia, Lyn Slipper is the daughter of a JBP MP, and according to the link is considered a better political operator than Slipper himself. I’d say she could run rings around Sava and other Liealot sycophants.

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