Open Thread VI

We’re up to our sixth page already!  Keep talking.

Here is the link to the previous Open Thread:

Open Thread V

331 comments on “Open Thread VI”

  1. It’s good to have one laugh a day. Today, mine came when a journo asked the Treasurer if Australia would contribute to the European Bailout fund. I can remember when the European Economic Community (as it was known) first got going and they told us where to stick our cheap agricultural products.

    Of course what is not funny is that Costello, via the Future Fund, has already given them a donation on behalf of Australian taxpayers.

  2. A lovely Welcome to Country for the Queen. I have absolutely zilch interest in the Queen of England but it’s a lovely Welcome from the Fresh Water People.

  4. Ha ha. Wonder where Geoff is?

    The hero of the climate change sceptics, the scientist they used against the majority espousing AGW has turned on the denialists. I don’t know how many scientists that were once true sceptics are now proponents of AGW but it is quite a few.

    The latest icy blast of reality comes from an eminent scientist whom the climate-change skeptics once lauded as one of their own. Richard Muller, a respected physicist at the University of California, Berkeley, used to dismiss alarmist climate research as being “polluted by political and activist frenzy.” Frustrated at what he considered shoddy science, Muller launched his own comprehensive study to set the record straight. Instead, the record set him straight.

    Also, the afore-mentioned now ex-”skeptic” Richard Muller in the Wall Street Journal:
    The Case Against Global-Warming Skepticism

    When we began our study, we felt that skeptics had raised legitimate issues, and we didn’t know what we’d find. Our results turned out to be close to those published by prior groups. We think that means that those groups had truly been very careful in their work, despite their inability to convince some skeptics of that. They managed to avoid bias in their data selection, homogenization and other corrections.

    Global warming is real.

  5. In answer to Neil’s most recent comment on Open Thread V,

    Abbott trust issue: Windsor
    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s3020532.htm

    Australian Broadcasting Corporation
    They told us when we were talking to him that they were keen for a hung parliament to go the three years if at all possible. I think that’s gone out the window too now.

    I think the background noise that I was hearing that if they had become the Government, that they would’ve looked for an early outcome in terms of an early election. I think those sorts of rumours and telephone calls have been vindicated by the pathway that Tony Abbott’s taking nowBroadcast: 23/09/2010

    Reporter:

    Independent MP Tony Windsor says it seems clear the Coalition is determined to wreck the Government, not be constructive.

    They told us when we were talking to him that they were keen for a hung parliament to go the three years if at all possible. I think that’s gone out the window too now.

    I think the background noise that I was hearing that if they had become the Government, that they would’ve looked for an early outcome in terms of an early election. I think those sorts of rumours and telephone calls have been vindicated by the pathway that Tony Abbott’s taking now.

  6. Nil of Syd, I have a copy of the video showing Abbott behaving like a petulant schoolboy during negotiations with the independents. The guy was certain he had the job (perhaps God told him, in which case, it proves God really does have a sense of humor)
    Then at the last minute Katter (Abbott’s inside man) told him the score and he panicked.
    The country is very lucky to have two sensible experienced people in a position to keep this loser out of the job, Australian is a better place today because of their courage and judge of character.

  7. Abbott calls for MP to fall in line on mining tax

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-27/liberal-mp-could-back-mining-tax/3603712

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has publicly rebuked one of his backbenchers, Mal Washer, who says he may support the Government’s mining tax when it comes before Parliament.

    Dr. Washer is a real man and won’t be intimidated by a drop-kick like Abbott, besides, he’s retiring at the end of this Parliament so what can Abbott do, fire him ??

  8. Abbott doesn’t only lie almost daily to the Australian people, as bad as that is, but he also lies to his own, including hard working credible Liberal pollies.

    Abbott had promised two of his members that if he won government he would promote them and give them more responsible port folios, It was later found out he promised those portfolios to the Indies if they sided with him.

    There is the honourable Abbott some like so much and want to see as leader of this country. Like O’Farrell he will break just about every promise he makes and send Australia backwards just as O’Farrell is sending NSW backwards.

  9. Wilkie hits back at Packer’s pokie punches
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-27/wilkie-hits-back-at-packer-pokie-punches/3604096

    Mr. Packer told shareholders
    “There is no evidence that introducing mandatory pre-commitment or introducing a $1 maximum bet will be effective in tackling problem gambling,” Mr Packer said.

    “But it will hurt recreational players and that will cost jobs and investment across the industry.”

    But in a statement Mr Wilkie hit back, citing Crown’s $340 million profit and saying “[Mr Packer’s] address is thick with the story of Crown’s success”.

    If Mr. Packer doesn’t believe the plan will work then why is he fussing ?

  11. I think he is retiring at the next election.

    Mr. Abbott can do nothing.

    Mr. Abbott would have been better to keep his mouth shut.

    Mr. Abbott would have been better to say what those that have gone before him, that dissent is allow in the Liberal Party.

    Mr. Abbott is good at making threats that he does not have the ability to carry out.

    Mr. Abbott should be known as Abbott the mouth. All talk, no action.

    Well at least no successes.

  12. ME, is not O’Farrell and the Victorian counterpart coming apart at the seams quickly. Much quicker than I would have expected.

    Latest is that you save the koala by cutting down the trees.

  14. I think one can put through some poker machines $1200 per hour. Limiting them to $1 dollar, will mean $120 per hour. This is big money.

    I am sure that the clubs and particually Mr. Packer would be more afraid of this option, which Mr. Wilkie said he first put forwarded.

    The clubs might wish they did not begin their campaign against Labor.

  15. I’ve been trying to nut out a post on the [stinking rich] lobbyists, but Jessica Irvine has done a much better job….

    Enough of the pedlars in politics
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/enough-of-the-pedlars-in-politics-20111025-1mhz3.html


    All this rent-seeking used to take place away from the public eye through hidden political donations and good old-fashioned long lunches. But today, thanks to new rules around donations and lobbyist registers, rent-seeking is increasingly played out in the public sphere, spearheaded by a proliferation of telegenic ”spokespeople” working for business associations.

    There’s the Business Council of Australia, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, and the Australian Industry Group, as well as state-based business chambers. Each battles with the other for supremacy.

    **
    Politicians need to wake up to the way they are being played. The public needs to switch on their rent-seeking bullshit-ometers when watching the next round of self-serving business advertising and learn to think: ”Well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?” And the media needs to rediscover its love of man bites dog tales and stop giving these guys a free kick.

    Don’t forget Big Tobacco and Big James Packer and Clubs Australia, and the Hotels Association…

  16. Once again I am confused.

    Why does Mr Packer say the scheme will not work. He has a voluntary scheme that he claims is successful.

    “..At the meeting, Mr Packer said “no-one in this country” had done more to address the [problem gambling] issue.

    “Crown introduced the first voluntary pre-commitment scheme in the casino industry in the world (Play Safe) in 2002 at Crown Melbourne, whereby our loyalty program members can elect to set a daily expenditure limit and/or time limit on their gaming machine play,” he said.

    “Over 20,000 players are currently participating in this program.”

    Mr Packer also called on the Federal Government to work with the industry to develop more workable changes.
    .”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-27/wilkie-hits-back-at-packer-pokie-punches/3604096

  17. “I think the background noise that I was hearing that if they had become the Government, that they would’ve looked for an early outcome in terms of an early election.”

    So Windsor sides with Gillard because he thought that Abbot if he became PM would go for an early election.

    Windsor is not to be trusted. His reasons are all wrong and how does he know what Abbott would have done??

  18. When Abbott suggested that Washer would be sorted out by his mates from the west, was he perhaps channeling Uncle Wilson?

  19. Neil, not that you would understand the need for a stable three year term of Parliament but that is what is expected when people vote.
    Ya puts ya money in and lives with the consequences

  20. Windsor is not to be trusted. It would not matter what Abbott did, Windsor was always going to side with Labor.

    I don’t think what is best for the country ever came into it.

    “I think the background noise”

    Lot of background noise around Mr Windsor. You heard the background noise say that Abbot if he became PM would go for an early election.

    No way Mr Windsor. You heard that background noise because that is what you wanted to hear you deluded fool.

  22. What a hypocrite
    “Police Minister feels ‘betrayed’ by adviser”

    enough about you Police Minister Ryan, what about Simon Overland

    as the OPI said

    “OPI director Michael Strong says for a serving member of police to occupy such a position in the minister’s office represents an irreconcilable conflict of interest and it is surprising that it was ever thought appropriate.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-27/police-minister-feels-betrayed-by-adviser/3604704

  24. Sue, I don’t know how I missed this…

    When I’m gone …
    http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/when-im-gone–20111021-1mbxg.html


    Sarah Watt knows more keenly than most the fragility of life. As her long battle with cancer nears an end, the artist, filmmaker, writer, mother and daughter has unveiled what she believes will be her final project. Amid works capturing the unlikely beauty in her beloved western suburbs, she faces death with a typically creative and unwavering eye.

    and

    In her first feature film, Look Both Ways, which won prizes in Rotterdam, Toronto and Argentina, a painter (based on Watt) meets a man who’s been diagnosed with cancer. She directed her husband, actor William McInnes, to play the character “as if he were being dumped by a massive wave — tumbled about, swimming frantically towards the surface, only to hit the seabed breathless and panicking”. Watt was diagnosed with breast cancer just months after filming; the frantic gasps were soon her own.

    I’m very sorry to read of her plight, and that of her family.

  27. Tony abbott’s arrogance knows no bounds.

    Local politics threaten to overwhelm CHOGM
    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3350025.htm

    TONY JONES, PRESENTER:

    CHOGM’s official opening is just a few hours away, but already local politics is threatening to overwhelm the Prime Minister’s turn on the international stage.

    Tony Abbott’s gatecrashed the meeting in Perth, lining up his own bilateral meetings, while Western Australian Premier Colin Barnett warned international visitors about the Federal Government’s mining tax.

  28. I wonder what the visiting heads of state think of the man.

    I am sure they will remember, if we are ever unlucky for him to lead the country.

    I would imagine that they would have pity for the PM.

    The WA premier talking down the economy in their present is indeed a wise move.

    If the aim is to embarrass the PM, I am sure they are succeeding. The trouble is that they are also doing the same to the rest of us.

    This has to be the worse and most dangerous Opposition leader that this country has had to endure.

    What lengths will this man go to.

  29. Pip & Catching Up
    No bounds whatsoever. I was trying to say something along the lines of C.U, who’s done it better. Foreign Affairs departments, embassies & war rooms around the globe will be calculating the implications of Abbott. And wondering about a country that seems set to elect him.
    And our local media think it’s all a giggle.

  30. Cu,
    Abbott will never stop his boorish behaviour and we can only guess what the CHOGM members think of him.
    He met the Indian delegation even though he has no official role at CHOGM.

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3350025.htm

    TONY ABBOTT: Look, it’s good to be here in Perth in the week of CHOGM. Today I’ve got a number of bilateral meetings.

    TOM IGGULDEN: One was with the Indian delegation.

    TONY ABBOTT: If the Government was serious about reducing global emissions, they would lift the ban on selling uranium to India.

    There will be more than 50 Leaders and Foreign Ministers attending and I highly doubt that they will care about Tony Abbott.

    They are meeting to discuss the globe’s most pressing issues, such as food security, economic stability and climate change.

    **
    I just spotted this on Twitter and I quite agree.

    geeksrulz Kinder Gentler Geek
    by davidbewart

    @ @SpaceKidette

    so this is quality journalism from #lateline? Chasing Abbott at #CHOGM in his official capacity of no consequence?

    and also

    SpaceKidette Space Kidette
    by davidbewart
    @ Gold RT @SpudBenBean

    Abbott in Perth is like having a blow fly at a picnic

  31. BSA Bob,
    that’s the problem isn’t it. Abbott has inserted himself onto the stage like a half-witted ‘streaker’.

    There’s that word again …”elect”…and the kids in the Press gallery need
    some excitement.

    The only thing the government has to do is continue to do their work as they have been, but from now on ignore him, answer his rants with reports about all their achievements and repeat the true facts about who pays the carbon ‘tax
    If the meeja kiddies want a quote, let it be that.

    Kevin Rudd has been doing that for a week or two now.

    Laugh at Abbott, scoff at him, even abuse him once in a while…he deserves to get some of his own behavour back in his face.
    On second thought, no abuse, that would be the only quote the meeja would publish!

  34. Bacchus, it really is a disgrace.
    Did you know about this ?

    the deadline for submissions is October 31st.

    I received this email from NewsStand

    Is the Australian media industry perfect? Is it pretty good, but there are a few ways it could be improved? Are there sweeping reforms crying out for attention? Is it so rotten that it needs a complete overhaul?

    Most of us are probably in the middle of that spectrum – but unless you’re Rupert Murdoch, you’d agree there are definitely some changes that need to be made to the way news is made and delivered in Australia.

    Well, now is the time to have those opinions heard. Earlier this year you joined the call for an inquiry into our media; now the inquiry has been delivered and wants to hear from you. Click here to make your submission:

    http://www.newsstand.org.au/make-your-submission

    If you get your information from the media, then you’re qualified to submit. You don’t have to be an expert; if you’re someone who cares about having access to quality information that is free of bias and misinformation, then the inquiry needs to hear from you.

    It doesn’t have to be a post-doctoral thesis either. A couple of paragraphs – about your experiences, your opinions, or the value to you of a free and fair press – will let the Inquiry know the overwhelming support for a better media industry.

    There’s a real chance this Inquiry just becomes a platform for major media outlets to say ‘all is well’, and there is no need for reform. Unless we are there in numbers to suggest things can be improved, nothing will change. Click here to add your voice to the call for reform, by making your own submission today:

    http://www.newsstand.org.au/make-your-submission

    We joined together to call for this Inquiry because we agree our media should be better: more diverse, more accurate, less biased, less sensational. This is our opportunity to help make that vision a reality, by voicing our opinions in the Inquiry we’ve been calling for.

    Thanks for making it happen,
    Ed, for the NewsStand team

    PS – The deadline for submissions is October 31 – if you care about the state of the Australian media industry, make sure you
    make your submission saying so before the Inquiry deadline passes!

    http://www.newsstand.org.au/campaigns/free-and-fair/inquiry-submissions/make-your-submission?t=dXNlcmlkPTY1MjIsZW1haWxpZD04

    Make your submission today
    The best submissions are personal, and come from your unique perspective and experience of the Australian media.

    Have you ever made a complaint about something you’ve seen or read in the media? Did you find the process easy, or the outcome successful? Has the presentation of a story struck you as particularly outrageous? Are you concerned that you only have access to a limited number of newspapers or sources?

    This inquiry will be looking at certain topics in more specific detail. Click below to find out more.

  36. Bacchus,
    the latest news about the Australia Network is that the government department heads have chosen Sky News to get the 10 year contract for the AN, for a second time.

    No way should that happen, the old foreigner has too much sway as it is.

  38. Nooooooo! How much have these particular public servants been paid on the side? Don’t they have to look after the good name of Australia as well as purely commercial considerations? 😦

  39. Tweet from CHOGM2011

    chogm2011 CHOGM2011

    The #CHOGM Opening Ceremony will be live to the world via our website http://www.chogm2011.org from 10am Perth time this Friday!

    I’ll be keeping an eagle eye out for a streaker with big….EARS 🙄

  40. Bacchus,
    apparently Sky showed much better programming plans or whatever.

    It was Kevin Rudd’s idea to put the contract out for tender…what the hell was he thinking ?

    I wonder whether the ‘departmental heads” are Howard appointees ?

  41. Pokies not just about numbers

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/pokies-not-just-about-numbers/story-e6frea6u-1226178865823

    KATHERINE Natt had just 30c in her purse after losing $4000 in 29 minutes in a pokies binge. The same day, the SkyCity Casino worker and single mother of two took her own life.
    Her mother, Chris Matthews, says imposing controls on pokies could have stopped her plunge that day five years ago – and might have saved her life.

    “I don’t know if mandatory pre-commitment will work, but something needs to be done to stop people losing these huge amounts of money,” she said

  42. After the last couple of days, the only explanation I can find for Mr. Abbott’s behaviour is that he is indeed mad.

    I can see him streaking across the stage at tomorrow at the official opening to take the lime light away from the PM.

    The man is that unhinged that he cannot stand the PM getting the smallest credit in anything she does.

    Mr. Abbott is that jealous of the PM that he feels he must demonise her in every way.

    He is

    Mr. Abbott is so deranged that he believes that everyone hates the PM as much as he does.

    If he is not mad, he then suffers from a extreme lack of judgement.

  43. Cu, I think Abbott is displaying for all to see, the characteristics of a grandiose personality, and yep, I think he’s mad too.

    His arrogance has grown beyond any reasonable level tonight with his appearance in Perth [and the budgie smugglers were packed for the trip as he’s doing another iron man thingy while he’s in Perth].
    He says he will be holding meetings with …. can’t remember now…
    but I’m sure we’ll read about it.

    The good news is that Kevin Rudd has had enough of him 😀

    Kevin Rudd tells Tony Abbott to quit stirring about leadershiphttp://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/rudd-to-abbott-quit-stirring/story-e6frg8zx-1226178892342

    FOREIGN Minister Kevin Rudd has attacked attempts by Tony Abbott to fan Labor Party tension, urging the Opposition Leader to stop playing “retail” politics while the government focuses on today’s Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Perth.

    and typically from ltd news there is a sting in the tale

    Although all Mr Rudd’s CHOGM activities have been well within his portfolio responsibilities, he has been highly active in promoting CHOGM and ensuring his efforts attract media attention.

    He has also made a point of courting the media, last night holding drinks for journalists just 24 hours after Ms Gillard held a similar function.

    As Min says, they just can’t help themselves!!

  44. India, to embarrass the PM on uranium sales to a country that will not sign the agreement.

    I cannot recall another Opposition leader that attack the PM while representing Australia on the world stage.

    I am sure he will also involve the Canadian PM in local politics.

    Where is the media outcry, that says the Opposition leader should cease trashing Australia at such a forum as CHOGM.

    They should tell Mr. Abbott to stop undermining the PM and Australia.

    Ms. Gillard is fulfilling her role as PM, acting on behalf of Australia.

    This is a time when all politicians in Australia should be supporting the PM, who is acting on behalf of Australia.

    Someone should pull Mr. Abbott aside and tell him that there is a time and place for everything.

    This is not the time. This is not the place.

    We have a state premier that is telling the leaders of 54 countries to take their business elsewhere.

    MR ABBOTT THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR POLITICS

  45. “Police scandal rocks Baillieu.”

    Headlines on ABC News Breakfast this morning.

    And here were all the right wingers saying just how much better Liberal governments are. As all the current Liberal governments are proving, they are as bad or worse than the governments they replaced. Only difference is that these Liberal governments will not be hounded out of office by the media.

  46. “Only difference is that these Liberal governments will not be hounded out of office by the media.”

    Which Labor govts were hounded out by the media???

    Here in NSW even Labor voters were unhappy with the ALP govt. It lasted for 14 years. It wasn’t hounded out by anyone.

  48. Neil finds it very difficult to concentrate on linear time. He seems more at ease with the Aboriginal concept of time, which in simple terms, is circular.

    I have no doubt that he is an Aborigine.

  49. Stalker Abbott

    The visual on the tele said it all. Barnett and the Q at a school, the crowds, flags, flowers. PM Gillard at CHOGM, Heads of State, cameras, hand shakes, smiles, meetings.
    Stalker Abbott, the funny walk on a street somewhere in Australia, alone.
    It was only that the interviewer told us that he was in WA, a weird television image. And the big question why on earth was he there? No official capacity.

  50. Barnett and his mining tax politics

    The African nations have young generations looking for change, the mining barons have said so. This is the perfect opportunity for the African delegations to seek advice on setting up National Wealth Funds, who better than to ask this Gillard/Rudd/Swann about the benefits of a mining reource rent tax.
    The miners are worried that if the Gillard govt gets the mining tax up all countries will follow.

  51. That reminds me of APEC 2007 when Kevin Rudd upstaged Howard by speaking to a somewhat stunned Chinese president Hu in Mandarin.

    I wonder what Abbott will do? Speak to everyone in babble..

  52. We saw that last nice night on the news Sue, and my wife quipped “That wabbot looks like it has a carrot up it’s arse’

    😆

    It also looks to me like he is trying to model himself after the Russion leader Putin.

    Both running around shirtless and doing all those ‘manly’ things.

  53. That reminds me of APEC 2007 when Kevin Rudd upstaged Howard by speaking to a somewhat stunned Chinese president Hu in Mandarin.

    The difference their Min was, the Chinese were impressed. I get the distinct impression the Malaysian PM wasn’t 😉

  54. Sue, I hope you do not mind we stealing your comment.

    Mining tax Mal Washer

    Last night on the radio I listened to an interview with Mal Washer. He said yes he had been advised not to leave home without a flak jacket. He loved his party and would love to abide BUT he loved his country Australia more and would put his country first. The mining tax was a good idea.

    Yet where is this story in the papers today? No of more importance is a house that may have been considered as a temporary accom for PM was sold, good grief. And the on going fave, Rudd no comment about the stalker hence leadership rumblings.

  55. Tom re Both running around shirtless and doing all those ‘manly’ things. Perhaps Julia could try it..it would doubtless create even more of an impression 😀

  56. Did someone say there is a triathlon on in WA. I hope Abbott is not thinking of strutting about in the budgie smugglers!
    Is he hoping to give the Q an eyeful.? Is he hoping to impress the suit wearing CHOGM delegates he is the man?
    Please, please Margie you are needed in WA!

  58. Tom R @9.05

    An ABC comedy program has a segment titled

    What would Putin Do?

    So from now on in each of these segments, I will now have the Abbott visual lol

  59. Which part of the sentence “The Prime Minister’s office has already ruled out buying a house..” do the media not understand.
    Any part that didn’t fit their story 😉

  62. I have to repeat this from 1.45am 😀

    Tweet from CHOGM2011

    chogm2011 CHOGM2011

    The #CHOGM Opening Ceremony will be live to the world via our website http://www.chogm2011.org from 10am Perth time this Friday!

    I’ll be keeping an eagle eye out for a streaker with big….EARS

  64. Miglo,
    I watched the Opening Ceremony.so I wouldn’t miss the action……rumour has it that a streaker was detained outside the venue :grin::

  66. “Here in NSW even Labor voters were unhappy with the ALP govt. It lasted for 14 years. It wasn’t hounded out by anyone.”

    The media did not let anything slide by with Labor, as they are wont to do with the new government.

    Neil. I agree with you that ALL governments reach their used by date.

    We, the voter leave some in power much too long. Mr. Howard and Mr. Menzies are good examples of that.

    What is disappointing that the new government in NSW, along with the one in the Victoria are worse, than the tired Labor governments they replaced.

    Sue,. I noticed the walk is back. Does it return when things are not going his way(defiance), or is it a sign of exaggerated self confidence, (love.)

    Neil, why whenever Mr. Abbott is mentioned, you reply with a negative comment about Labor or the PM.

    Neil, is it possible you would add more to the debate by sticking to Mr. Abbott. Surely you are keen to defend him. Neil, you need to prove to us, that we are wrong.

  68. Putin, as much as one might not like him or his ideals is a very clever and successful politician. He is also very fit and does not look his age.

    This is the reason he gets away with the behaviour, whether it is acting or his normal self.

    I do not know what Mr. Abbott seeks to convey playing the role he does, unless it is to let us know it is his destiny to lead this country.

    After all, at his birth, both parents saddle him with their belief, that one day he would be PM or Pope.

    His three younger sisters knew their place in the scheme of things, and made sure he had the devotion and support to achieve the parents desire.

    He tried the pope option first, but soon gave up. Sadly for us, he believes his destiny now lies in being PM.

    I wonder what it feels like to be burdened with knowing you are born to rule.

  69. Words that DO NOT inspire confidence in a govt.

    “They said it was down to a rogue ministerial adviser who was pursuing his own political agenda.”
    Ted Bailleau Vic Premier

    Also Bailleau I cannot expel Tilley because he would end up with a hung parliament.

    “Peter Ryan is an excellent minister and enjoys my complete confidence,” Mr Baillieu said.
    Mr Ryan would not accept responsibility for Mr Weston’s behaviour, but acknowledged he had employed him.

    And Ryan’s defense, he is inept as a minister, but here are his own words

    ” he was too busy running three portfolios, his electorate and touring the state to know the daily workings of his Melbourne office.”

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/it-wasnt-our-fault-say-peter-ryan-and-ted-baillieu/story-fn7x8me2-1226178865595

    Wake up Bailleau, Ryan has admitted he cannot manage his workload and yet you have full confidence in him.

  70. This type of behaviour is not unusual for the police to experience..

    I am sure they are experts at identifying a panic attack.

    yes, one would panic, if caught shoplifting.

    One thing for sure, she has upset and put the police and the prosecutor offside.

    They are going in hard for what is a minor offence. I wonder why?

  72. This weeks stunts from Mr. Abbott have been that he predicts he will rescind the propose bill to assist those who are pokie addicts.

    Yesterday it was the mining tax with the help of the WA Premier. As well as telling the country’s present, it is too dangerous to invest in this country.

    Today with the help of Premiers from NSW and Vic, it is the Qantas dispute.

    What will it be tomorrow.

    I do hope those 54 Heads of state do not have the time to follow our news. I do hope that he is not undermining the effort that the PM has put in showing Australia to the world.

  73. There is to be a speech, I think from a Mr. Anderson, from business.

    His claim will be that this is a failed government and is ruining business.

    I am not interested in what he has to say.

    What I would like to know, what makes a failed government.

    I will leave it open for suggestions.

    Maybe someone can also describe what is an successful government.

  74. Min @ 2.54pm, from your link
    http://www.afr.com/p/opinion/labor_hopeless_abbott_hollow_man_iIzzHU5YM1A546LnB9PbAO

    Laura tingle began :-

    Oh, for goodness sake. Pledges in blood. Policy run on the smell of intestinal fortitude alone. We are supposed to be talking about who becomes prime minister her, not an action man movie.

    and
    True, in recent weeks, analysts have started talking about Abbott having to be careful, about having a potential problem with hubris..

    Analysts should be so coy !

  75. Pip, agree. Police do not like being treated as fools.

    Most have sympathy for those who are showing signs of distress or mental illness.

    Most police cannot be bothered taking these matters further. as they have better things to do with their time.

    It is my experience that police do not go after politicians.

  76. It has been mentioned much about media bias but i do not think much has changed. It reminded me of a story about Howard when he allegedly held up a plane.

    http://www.watoday.com.au/travel/howard-holds-up-flight-20090113-7fet.html

    The journalists slanted the story was that because Howard was an important person everybody was inconvienced because of extra security.

    “But passengers told family and friends that Qantas had decided to undertake an extra security check because of Mr Howard’s presence on the flight.”

    Turns out there was a missing passenger whose bags had been loaded. My understanding is that no plane will take off with a passengers bags on board but no passenger.

    “The airline said the delay of flight 107 was simply the result of routine cabin cleaning and the search for a missing passenger.”

    I think Dunlop ran a blog on this with lots of abuse from posters because of the alleged reason given by passengers for the hold up when the airline said it was because of a missing passenger.

    Nothing has changed re: newspaper reporters

  77. Neil, you’re wrong there. Tim Dunlop would never tolerate any abuse on his blogs..any that appeared were promptly deleted with an explanation from Tim as to why.

  79. Climate scientists slam George Pell’s ‘utter rubbish’ claims

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/10/28/climate-scientists-slam-george-pells-utter-rubbish-claims/

    Leading climate change researchers have launched a scathing attack on a speech delivered this week by Cardinal George Pell, describing it as “dreadful”, “utter rubbish” and “flawed”.

    The Archbishop of Sydney Cardinal Pell, Australia’s most senior Catholic, is a long-time denier of the risks posed by human-caused climate change.

    But he has taken his climate confusion right to the heart of England’s Catholic church, with a speech (you can read the whole thing here) delivered at Westminster’s Cathedral Hall.

  81. Pip, the Cardinal’s views are not shared by the Vatican.

    They have already been held up to ridicule at a Senate Hearing last year..

    It is time the Cardinal reverted his attention to the poor and those victimised by the clubs and their poker machines.

    He is not there to support his friend Mr. Abbott.

  82. From the OPI report

    Federal Inquiry
    If the Australian Government’s proposed inquiry into the media proceeds, the
    use of the media in the campaign against former Chief Commissioner Overland
    deserves consideration.

    and guess who the media were
    Murdoch press 10 stories
    fairfax 1
    shock jock 1

  83. Sue @ 4.19pm from Twitter

    geeksrulz Kinder Gentler Geek

    Rogue Operator is Rule Nr 2 in the dirt operations manual.

    Of course Minister was protected by Rule Nr 1 in plausible deniability. #sprinst

  84. Cu, on Cardinal Pell…
    He is not there to support his friend Mr. Abbott

    I reckon that’s one of his main occupations !

  86. Katter critics pan party’s ammo plan

    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2011/s3350197.htm

    PETER CAVE: It’s not uncommon for political parties to promise all sorts of things to clubs and organisations in return for support at the ballot box.

    But Bob Katter’s new Australian Party is breaking new ground as it attempts to win over gun clubs.

    Shooters are being given bullets and that’s providing plenty of ammunition for their critics, worried that the new party is too tied to gun interests.

    What country are we living in ??

  87. Shellharbour GP Super Clinic Opens
    Nicola Roxon, Sharon Bird posted Friday, 28 October 2011

    http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/shellharbour-gp-super-clinic-opens/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    The Gillard Government is delivering more health services to Shellharbour with the official opening of the Shellharbour GP Super Clinic.

    Minister for Health and Ageing Nicola Roxon, Federal Member for Throsby Stephen Jones and Federal Member for Cunningham Sharon Bird today welcomed the boost to Shellharbour health services.

    “The Shellharbour GP Super Clinic is making it easier for locals to access the health services they need, all under the one roof, since opening its doors on Wednesday 6 July 2011,” Minister Roxon said.

    and
    “The Shellharbour GP Super Clinic is supported by a large multidisciplinary team of health professionals, including a medical director; five part-time GPs; GP educator; GP registrar; senior practice nurse; practice nurses; practice manager; exercise physiologist; clinical psychologist; dietician; speech therapist and medical students and has a strong focus on delivering team based patient care and training the medical workforce that will serve and work in the Illawarra over the years to come,” Minister Roxon said.

    Gee, who knew the government was actually getting on with the job of governing abd building for the future ?

  91. Cu, @ 4.10pm,
    I’m sure you’ll want to hear more of Cardinal Pell’s adventures.

    Cardinal Pell’s plea for scientific evidence
    http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/power-move/cardinal-pells-plea-for-scientific-evidence/20111027621?utm_source=The+Power+Index&utm_campaign=122182cb08-The_Power_Daily_28_Oct_2011&utm_medium=email

    This week in London, Australia’s Cardinal George Pell opened a new front in the church’s age-old war on science by telling the world there really isn’t enough evidence to believe in man-made warming.

    “Carbon dioxide … is not a pollutant, but part of the stuff of life,” the cardinal chirped cheerfully, and CO2 levels would need to rise to “almost 13 times today’s concentration” before they posed any danger to humans.

    But Australia’s most powerful Catholic saved his best cheep for last, warning that, “debates about anthropogenic global warming can only be conducted by the accurate recognition and interpretation of scientific evidence.”

    We had to sit down after reading that one.

    Pell believes that 97% of the world’s climate scientists are “climate change zealots” and “extremists”.
    I wonder does he also believe it’s all a dreadful left-wing conspiracy, or a communist plot….

    The Cardinal gets his information from

    a band of well-known climate deniers, led by Professor Bob Carter (whom he cited seven times), Professor Ian Plimer (five times), “Lord” Christopher Monckton (four times), Craig Idso (two times) family and Bjorn Lomborg (once).
    He argued that the science was still not settled, that the Earth was not as warm as in mediaeval times and that “climate extremists” and their advertising agencies were pushing “propaganda” and “lies”.

  93. Sue at 3.02
    “a rogue… pursuing his own agenda”
    But we’ve caught him now, so there’s nothing else to worry about.
    Ltd News crisis management for beginners.
    Let’s hope it goes a bit further than this.

  94. “Gee, who knew the government was actually getting on with the job of governing abd building for the future ?”

    Not many because it is not.

    It is amazing that the average ALP supporter goes weak at the knees when the ALP announces a policy which may be finished by 2150 and positively over the top when they actually do something.

    How many Super Clinics did they promise and how many have been built???

  95. Neil, the average Liberal supporter goes weak at the knees when Tony Abbott is able to announce a policy FULL STOP. Mind you, whats’is’name Joe Hockey announced a couple but they were quickly knocked on the head by Smuggles. I call Hockey whats’is’name because…BTW, what’s happened to Hockey? Somebody ought to send out a search party..haven’t heard about him for months.

  96. Here’s a challenge for Neil, who rarely provides genuine information to back his claims/accusations

    He can find out for himself the number of completed Super Clinics, and if
    that’s beyond his capabilities, then he should have another lie down.

  97. Pip, pell needs to widen his circle of advisors. it’s really bizarre that this is the guy telling the pollies to get out there and get the facts, as he closets himself with the world’s most restricted minds

    The measurements are good, the evidence is clear, and the underlying physics is straightforward. Unless some new extraordinary evidence comes up, I can conceive of no legitimate reason why the accepted scientific consensus should not be adopted by the world, and used to protect our greatest natural resource: the Earth.

    http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/10/i_am_a_scientist.php

  99. I find it odd that people want evidence of climate change and of the Stolen Generation yet they believe in God. The evidence of whose existence is what! A book?

  100. Ben Lltham on Laura Tingle’s article – http://www.afr.com/p/opinion/labor_hopeless_abbott_hollow_man_iIzzHU5YM1A546LnB9PbAO

    Will negative Abbott get a positive result?
    Ben Eltham

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3606270.html

    When it comes time to pen her regular Friday column for the Australian Financial Review, Laura Tingle doesn’t mince words.

    Today’s effort was no exception.

    “Pledges in blood. Policy run on intestinal fortitude. We are supposed to be talking about who becomes prime minister here, not an action man movie.”

    No prizes for guessing who the Financial Review’s political editor is writing about: none other than Tony Abbott.

  101. I find it odd that people want evidence of climate change and of the Stolen Generation yet they believe in God.

    Not only that Migs, but he was complaining that he thinks the scientists are almost religious in their fervour

    Says the leader of the Catholic church in Australia 😯

    [facepalm]

    (I wonder if these tools ever look back at what they have said, and reflect)

  103. Quote from Cardinal Pell:

    “Some of the hysterical and extreme claims about global warming are also a symptom of pagan emptiness, of Western fear when confronted by the immense and basically uncontrollable forces of nature. Belief in a benign God who is master of the universe has a steadying psychological effect, although it is no guarantee of Utopia, no guarantee that the continuing climate and geographic changes will be benign. In the past pagans sacrificed animals and even humans in vain attempts to placate capricious and cruel gods. Today they demand a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.”

    God on the other hand is saying, I created this place and found it good and now you idiots are f*rt ar*ing around stuffing it up.

  105. Min, Cardinal Pell says “Belief in a benign God who is master of the universe has a steadying psychological effect,”

    It turns others into complete idiots !

  106. Tweet commenting on shock jock Neil Mitchell on 3AW

    ozleaks ozleaks
    by HillbillySkill

    Very brief segment by #NeilMitchell on #OPI findings,
    if it were #Labor he would have spend days on it.

    #PeterRyan #3AW #VicPol #SpringSt

  107. Pip, the one that I like is belief in global warming is equivalent to ‘pagan emptiness’.

    And especially, “In the past pagans sacrificed animals and even humans in vain attempts to placate capricious and cruel gods. Today they demand a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.”

    Is this guy for real!!!!!

  108. Neil, you should not rely on the figures that the media and the Opposition puts out.

    They are rarely correct. Neil as you have made the allegations, please let us know how many are promised, the time line and how many have been provided.

    Neil, I do know that one or two have been deferred or abandon because of changed circumstances.

    Neil the truth is that most of what this government promised has been delivered.

    Most on time.

  110. “He can find out for himself the number of completed Super Clinics, and if
    that’s beyond his capabilities, then he should have another lie down.”

    In your world all the ALP has to do is announce something that they will/may do in 2150 and that is enough for you lot.

    If is the job of the govt to do things. That is what they are paid to do.

    Your worship of the ALP is quite sickening.

  111. Neil, the government is doing many things including building
    GP Super Clinics.

    Your hatred of all things Labor is your problem; I can’t take you seriously.

    Tony Abbott is everyone’s problem; they just don’t know it yet,
    but they will if he ever becomes the Prime Minister.

  112. Liberal MP Washer not crossing floor on mining tax
    Posted October 28, 2011 19:13:29

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-28/washer-not-crossing-floor-on-mining-tax/3607220

    Western Australian Liberal MP Mal Washer has confirmed he will not cross the floor to support the Government’s mining tax when it comes before Federal Parliament.

    Dr Washer has been under pressure from his colleagues after he was reported as saying he could potentially support the Minerals Resource and Rent Tax.

    The Federal Liberal Leader Tony Abbott warned Dr Washer would get the message “one way or another” not to support the tax.

    Dr Washer says it was never his intention to cross the floor, only to stimulate debate.

    Really ??

  113. Anti-carbon tax astro-turfer group, the Consumers and Taxpayers Association.
    CATA, hopes to use the visit of President Obama to Canberra. to promote
    its message of opposition to the government’s planned carbon pricing scheme.

    CATA founder Jacques Laxale said his organisation had arranged a rally on the lawn in front of parliament house to attract an international audience.

    Obama adds Darwin to his Australia trip
    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/obama-adds-darwin-to-his-australia-trip-20111028-1mnyq.html

    The protest group has previously arranged several anti-carbon tax rallies around Australia, including one where members heckled Ms Gillard in the lower house of parliament after it passed the government’s climate change bills.

    The might find it more difficult to get within cooee of Parliament House on this occasion.

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  115. Pip @ 6.39

    Neil Mitchell was one on the news media mentioned by the OPI.
    3AW and Mitchell were part of the undermining of Overland.
    Mitchell may become part of the media inquiry, as recommended by the OPI

  116. Pip @ 12.55

    not only the anticarbon ralliers but even mirabella may get a bit on attention from the secret service. they definitely won’t let any nutters near their president.

  117. Personally, I believe they should put them centre stage so the world can get a good look at what and who these nutters are.

    The pictures and videos we saw after the last protest, or any of their protests for that matter are not a pretty sight.

    Like anything based on nastiness and lies, the more it is apparently, the more people demand things be cleaned up.

  118. PS: Mirabella should be given a front line seat, along side the Opposition leader.

    I d believe in free speech, and in this occasion, the government should assure they are heard.

    Oh, I forgot the lovely, kind Ms. Bronwyn Bishop as well, she should sit to the right of the Opposition leader. The one who stares should sit at his feet, to enable her to stare at her master with the due respect and admiration, she gives all the Opposition leaders.

  119. Pingback: Anonymous

  120. Qantas news from Twitter

    latikambourke Latika Bourke

    RT @QantasAirways:
    From 8pm AEDT on 31/10 Qantas will lock out all employees

    Qantas grounds entire fleet
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/qantas-strikes-to-hit-10000-passengers-today/story-fn7x8me2-1226180030416

    Mr Joyce said all Qantas staff involved in strike action would be locked out of the company as of 8pm on Sunday.

    “We are locking out until the unions withdraw their extreme claim and reach agreement with us,” Qantas Mr Joyce told a press conference on Saturday.

    Mr Joyce said his hand had been tipped by the impossible demands of the unions.

    “They are trashing our strategy and our brand,” he said.

    “They are deliberately destabilising the company and there is no end in sight.”

    If the industrial action continued, Qantas would have no choice but to shut down its business “part by part”, the chief executive said.

    I thought that is what Mr. Joyce had been trying to do.

    **Crikey’s perspective

    The Qantas dispute is about to get very political
    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/10/29/the-qantas-dispute-is-about-to-get-very-political/

    Whatever happens in the labor dispute between Qantas and its pilots, licensed engineers and ground handling staff this coming week, the political context is about to fire up.

    On Friday 4 November a Senate inquiry into two proposed bills will begin. They contain provisions that would frustrate the Qantas off shoring strategies, and prevent the rotation of Asia based labor in pilots and flight attendants through domestic operations.

  122. A pertinent point from Twitter

    auspoltragic auspoltragic
    by samahhadid

    Before anybody blames the unions for the Ansett collapse,
    Ansett failed due to incompetent management. #Qantas

  123. Gratifying news from Qantas, that planes currently in the air will complete their flights before grounding.

    I was kinda hoping that they might…you know coming down in the nearest paddock or ditching at sea can be kinda dangerous.

  124. Apparently Joyce was working for Ansett when it failed. Anyone know anything about that?

    Every time I see that little man speaking for Qantas I wonder how he came to have that job. Presumably it has something to do with this willingness to take on the Unions.

    Every working man and woman should be supporting the Qantas workers. If they fail and their jobs go off shore then organised labor has much to fear, particularly if Abbott and his supporters manage to swing their big con on the electorate and bring back a Coalition government.

    The ALP would be mad to formally sever ties with the union movement.
    We need each other more than ever since the great post WWII reforms and progress. Okay, so we need to reform and regroup, but working people must stay united.

  127. patricia ,
    Alan Joyce worked for Aer Lingus for eight years, left in ’96 to go to Ansett, then left them in 2000 to go to Qantas.
    Ansett collapsed in 2001.

    He did say he had received threatening emails, which may or may not be to do with the fact that he is gay.

    From wikipedia
    Education
    Joyce attended Dublin Institute of Technology and Trinity College, Dublin. He graduated with Honours, receiving a Bachelor of Science degree in Applied Science (Physics and Mathematics) and a Master of Science degree in Management Science. He is a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society

    Tweet

    #Qantas CEO Alan Joyce’s message to unions after grounding entire fleet “indefinitely” http://pic.twitter.com/FvNjfvmc

  128. Min, it’s gratifying to know…

    Gratifying news from Qantas, that planes currently in the air will complete their flights before grounding. 😀

  129. Another tweet

    andrew_lund Andrew Lund
    by LaTrioli

    Qantas grounds fleet the day after the CEO gets a massive pay rise. Not sure that’s the way to win friends.

  130. Tweet

    theburgerman John Bergin

    Captain Barry Jackson from the Pilots Association says #Qantas is effectively ‘holding the nation hostage’

  131. Pip, I was especially pleased due to the fact that I’m in the vicinity of a flight path. I checked the ‘fridge..nope not enough for extra guests for dinner, so hopefully the planes will make it the entire distance to the Coolangatta airport.

  132. Tweet 😀

    anecdotal_anna Anna Hill
    by profsarahj

    Qantas will have to change its name to another icon Australian flightless bird. Emu.

  136. I’m stuck interstate, have been away too long already, not having too good a time and not being as successful as I should because of things outside my control.

    Friggin company management screws it for everyone yet again.

  138. That’s bad luck Mobious.

    Last and best tweet of the day… 😀

    mucknmirth Bluey Zarsoff
    by benzoenator

    Barnaby is now only the second stupidest Joyce in Australia. #qantas

  139. Yes Min I can hire a car or keep the XR6 I’ve currently rented and drive back over a couple of days. The other choice is to keep me here depending on the facilities Qantas provides, and I work through VPN to do the work to meet the looming deadlines.

  140. I don’t think this applies to Mobious by the tone of his comment ;sad:

    MissBaileyWoof Miss Bailey Herself

    So, if the decision by #qantas was only made today, how did they manage book all the hotel rooms for stranded travellers so quickly?

  141. The bookings have been made for weeks. Qantas refuse to talk at last meeting with the unions.

    There are bills before the parliament that Qantas do not like.

    Federal Government is approaching the court to order both parties to drop action.

    It is interesting how the other airlines will cope.

    Qantas has already made arrangements with Cathay.

    Personally if the airline goes offshore, it is no longer an Australian Airline. I do not think I would care.

    It would leave the space for the like of Virgin to move in. Would we be any worse off.

  142. Virgin is booking out fast so I’ve ask management if I should cancel my Qantas flight and get a Virgin one. Another day or two and it will probably be too late.

  143. Catching up, I think staff and service employees would all be a lot worse off if Joyce has a decisive win here. I hope their unions hold the line to some extent even if they have to compromise. Joyce can’t be allowed to win with dirty tactics like these.

  144. Patricia, I agree but this to me has the smell of the long dispute at Cockatoo Island in Sydney. Mr. Beasley was the minister responsible. The dispute had strong public support but most involve were aware that there was little chance of winning.

    The PM is very strong during her press conference. This is an area she is well and truly experience in. There are many of her ministers that have come from top roles in the union movement. If they believe this will make the PM look bad, and that Labor is shaking in their boots, they should think again.

    Maybe that is the reason Mr. Reith is saying the government should not become involved. Mr. Reith is also blaming the government laws. There is I believe not much change in these laws from what went before. There is a feeling that there is the ghost hanging over this dispute. Qantas has been training staff in the USA. There has been six hours of work stoppage over the last seven months.

    Abbott once again playing the idiot. Quoting faceless men, once again playing politics. This is once again not the time for politics.

    Mr. Abbott seeing the main aim is to get the planes quickly back in the sky. I believe the important thing is that the dispute is solved.

    As the ABC said, Mr. Abbott is having a bet each way. Attempting to put all blame on the government.

    Remember that Ansett might have had a win but did not survive. I do not believe that Qantas wants to remain in Australia. It is legal restraints that is stopping them going offshore one hundred percent.

    Patricia you are right, Qantas must not win. There are many ways of this happening. They have challenge the workers, government and Australian Law.

    Qantas claims that they are not putting people at risk by lowering their safety schemes.

    Against this rarely a week goes by, that one of The planes having engines blowing up or having to return from where they took off.

    If the airline went offshore, I would expect the government to ensure they do not have any advantage over other airlines, that they are seen as not being Australian. If the airline is taken to Asia, is it still Australian.

    There will still be a vacuum to fill. Maybe there is room for Virgin or other airlines to grow.

    No matter the outcome, the Qantas brand is being trashed.

  145. There is the Qantas Sale act that means that Qantas has responsibilities to he people of Australian.

    Hearing adjourned. Should come back later tonight.

    The problem is that Qantas have their lawyers well prepared.

  146. Looking around the blogosphere tonight I’m humored to see that some people are actually blaming the workers for the Qantas fiasco. Amazing.

    I’m friends with one of their pilots. He’s been telling me for se time the contempt management has for the staff. By all accounts it’s a poorly run organization.

    The latest move supports that.

  147. “A very competent Prime Minister this evening when giving a press conference on the Qantas dispute
    She skilfully avoided placing blame and showed a calm assurance. Clearly she believes that the Fair Work legislation of which she was the author is capable of handling a complex situation………….

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2011/10/29/a-prime-minister-cool-under-pressure/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CrikeyBlogs%2Fthestump+%28The+Stump%29

  148. Another view.

    http://economics.com.au/?p=8161&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+com%2FJUlM+%28CoreEcon%29http://economics.com.au/?p=8161&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+com%2FJUlM+%28CoreEcon%29

    “……..But here’s the thing: since 2001 and before, Qantas has had an unparalleled position in Australian aviation. It has a 70% domestic market share and a large international one for flights in and out of Australia (especially when you take into account the ACCC approved alliances with BA and American Airlines). The latter monopolistic condition is, of course, the fault of the Australian government, who for decades has resisted continual calls for opening up Australian skies. We can’t even integrate Australia and New Zealand for goodness sake. It is a travesty that harms Australian business and tourism………
    ……………. So when Australians look for a target to blame for the conditions that led to this, the need to look at successive government decisions that have generated this outcome. And if they want to avoid it in the future, something needs to be done to free up Australian aviation…”

  149. Mr. Abbott and Mr, Reith, I suggest that this is not the time for politics.

    Abbott is being questioned on his attitude to Qantas. His answer to every question is once again a slogan. It is important that the planes get back into the sky and the government needs make this happen.
    He is the only man that can give one answer to every question asked.
    This matter is too serious to pay politics, Mr. Abbott.
    Mr. Abbott you were not to worried about brand Australia while in WA, intruding on CHOGM.

  150. Oh Dear – is it all unravelling for CanDo so soon? 😆

    THE Liberal National Party faces a bombshell this morning, with the defection of another MP and threats of more to come.

    LNP heavyweights holed up at the Gold Coast for state council will learn of the defection of Shane Knuth (pictured) to Bob Katter’s Australia Party in today’s Sunday Mail.

    Tension between National and Liberal MPs is reaching fever pitch as discipline within the merged party deteriorates, threatening Campbell Newman’s clear run for premier.

    It comes as more LNP members are making “overtures” to join Katter’s fledgling party.

    Mr Knuth, the MP for Dalrymple in inland northern Queensland, said he could no longer stomach being forced to vote against National core values or watching the poor treatment of former Nationals.

  151. That’s funny, which former Nationals have been poorly treated…..
    I doubt they mean Windsor or Oakeshott.

  155. which former Nationals have been poorly treated

    All of them Pip – it’s just that they’re too addicted to the power the Lieberal party gives allows them to worry about that or their constituents…

  156. Nah, changed my mind. Might need a good sleep as I have a suspicion that Sunday is going to be a torrid day on the blogs.

    Or we could just ignore him.

    Pip, Bacchus knows where I hide the good stuff. Help yourselves.

  157. Interesting for a party that only received 462,387 votes in the last election. That’s 3.73% of the votes. (excludes QLD & NT where they are combined with the Lieberals).

  158. You’re right Bacchus, they’re addicted to power that’s why they’re all unhinged
    by the lack of it.

    Miglo, I don’t suppose this little latte sipper could have a drop of the
    doings in my coffee please……I can make it myself……if necessary 🙂

  159. Sleep tight Miglo, it certainly will be torrid on the blogs tomorrow and it will be interesting to see how the MSM play this…..more “the Opposition says”….
    S. Maiden has already started but I’m ignoring her.

  161. Is this the start of a brutal new era of IR?

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/is-this-the-start-of-a-brutal-new-era-of-ir-20111029-1mpq0.html

    It is a tactic rarely seen in Australia, and is reminiscent of Chris Corrigan and the waterfront and Rupert Murdoch a few decades ago when he locked out journalists in Britain for weeks in an attempt to crush, and starve, them into submission.

    The move will have profound ramifications for industrial relations in this country.

    For the many Australian companies that have been wanting to destroy unions for years, it will be an exciting ride. But for now it has made a mockery of the Fair Work Act, which was introduced to bring harmony to industrial relations and create an atmosphere of good faith in negotiations.

    By locking out staff, Qantas hasn’t breached Fair Work in the sense that it doesn’t need to give 72 hours for a lock out, but it is bad faith in that it is supposed to give notice to staff. In addition, it has embroiled short haulage flights in the lock out, when their negotiations don’t even begin until next September.

    There have been six working days on which some, not all, Australian workers held a strike in the last seven months of haggling, there are 35,000 Qantas employees worldwide.

    I’m listening on radio to a Qantas shareholder who is disgusted with Alan Joyce for escalating ‘a minor’ problem into worldwide chaos.

    Another listener is blaming the government and applauds Alan Joyce.

    The third caller reminds listeners that Qantas has been training workers in the USA for several months and is expecting Joyce to do the dirty work and then walk with his bonuses like Ziggy Switkowski did with Telstra.

    Journalist Simon Lauder reporting from the Fair Work Australia hearing…government wants all sides to return to work….unresolved before being adjourned.

    Witnesses, heads of government departments, spoke of half a million jobs being affected.

    Unions want Alan Joyce to appear to explain the ‘risk assessment’ they undertook before announcing the lock-out.

    Did Qantas bosses do the risk assessment after the AGM?
    Not likely !

  162. It turns out that Qantas had documented the plan to conduct this lockout 10 days ago and been planning it longer than that. If this is found to be the case it means they are in trouble as they had mislead their shareholders and were still selling tickets knowing they would not be honoured.

  163. NSW ministry problem

    It is impossible to describe in a short column just how clueless Parker appeared at Thursday’s hearing. Her claim that logging was a good thing for koalas was a regrettable start. Perhaps more frightening was her admission that she isn’t familiar with the detail of the forestry approval for the south-western cypress region – a document she signed.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/parker-no-clue-libs-form-a-queue-20111029-1mp29.html#ixzz1cEhUp8KK

  164. Miglo is right. This is not the time for politics. Mr. Abbott should be supporting the government. There is time and place for politics, this is not the time or place.

    Mr. Abbott is saying that the government had three hours noticed yesterday and should have solved it then. It is the PM own law etc. Plenty of “shes”

    He is demanding that the PM solve in now. He is demanding how she does it.

    He is talking sentences of four or five words. Repeating them, so one can understand. Exactly like one talks to a four years old, when you need to get a message across.

    Qantas must want the PM to act as Mr. Abbott is demanding.

    Min and others, I think the Opposition leader was already back on the east coast. He was seen at the Melbourne races, I think with two of his daughters.

    No one really believes that Mr. Abbott was not aware of the coming action and would allow himself to be stranded on the west coast.

    It is amazing that out of the blue, two premiers write a letter to the PM at a time when nothing has changed.

    The government has two options. They are asking that industrial action cease on all sides. What Qantas and Mr. Abbott want is for all negotiations to stop.

    One is not taking sides, but is asking for the matter to be negotiated with a agreement. If there is no agreement, to be arbitrated in the court.

    The other is siding with Qantas, ensuring that they do not continue the negotiations that have been going on for twelve months. Otherwise a win for Qantas.

    It is sickening the excuse that Qantas is giving for leaving people stranded.

    The allegations that the pilots and other staff would not be fit and suffer from fatigue if asked to finish the flights. This would be because of their reactions to being told there would be a lockout.

    What an insult to the workers. The same company is demanding the pilots work longer hours and shifts closer together. No worry about fatigue there.

    What is being over done, is the effect on tourism.

    Qantas share of those coming to Australia has dropped below 20%. It is not outside the realms of possibility, given times, other airlines will pick up the slack within Australia.

  165. Sue, Parker never learns. The O’Farrell government never learns.

    On Friday, she took 15 hours to speak to the Hunter mayor after the generator blew up. The mayor has sought but not got a briefing.

    All he has got is buck passing in the government, saying he needs to talk to another minister.

    Now the fire , as far as the environment was concerned, is could have been wprde. Luck was on the government side.

    That does not excuse the behavior, as the outcome could be worse. There now has been two serious issues in the Hunter area.

    The power house is on the Central Coast but on the edge of Lake Macquarie.

    This government has not or has ignored the promise to let those in the area know of any concerns.

  168. ME, the report that Mr. OFarrell instigated about the previous government part power sell off gives the previous government a big tick.

    10 News. It would have led to a decrease in power prices.

  169. Sue, a big week indeed. A week that for once, Labor might be able to set the agenda.

    It is only a couple of days ago that since the headlines said the PM was in trouble.

    A week is a long time in Politics.

    Get through this week. Meet the President and spend some time over seas.

    Then Christmas is upon us.

  171. A little story that warms my toes

    Humphries dumped from key position

    and The Senator claims
    “I’m pretty angry about this,” Senator Humphries said last night. ”The Greens are simply hell-bent on aggrandising themselves on the floor of the Senate. They want as much power as their new advantageous relationship with the Labor Party will give them.”

    BUT NOW WE GET TO THE TRUTH

    “The dumping means Senator Humphries will lose an allowance awarded to committee heads.”

    And the reason it warms my toes.
    Humphries claimed he supported climate change and the first time the Rudd Climate bills went to the Senate he had the opportunity to cross the floor, as his constituents in the ACT wanted. But this toe rag was got to by Abetz and he didn’t.

  172. Just watching a guy from the Center For Independent Studies on ABC news 24 talking about the Greek debt crisis.
    Common sense at last about the repetition of of “failed” rescue plans resulting in a roller coaster ride on world share markets.
    It reminded me of a bank giving a credit card to a long term unemployed worker. When the guy could not meet repayments, why we just “consolidate debt” and extend his credit limit. Repeat this process over and over to the point that the total debt is way beyond any income the guy is ever likely to earn.
    On the Greek side they will agree to anything that does not involve too much economic pain. If they try to tax their wealthy, they will jump on a plane and fly to Melbourne (where they will support the Liberal Party).
    So they agree to the latest rescue plan, then a few days later announce they will hold a referendum – hands up all those that want economics severity?

  173. I do not know if any wasted time watching QT today and the MPI afterwards.

    Mr, Abbott stunt today was to show his economic expertise, while talking the economy down.

    I missed the beginning of the MPI, got diverted by a more interesting event, the release of the report into sexist behaviour in the forces.

    When I tuned in, Mr Robb was screaming out his usual abuse, including the usual lies and mid-information.

    Labor used second line speakers and in my opinion, gave a good account of themselves.

    The aim was to undermine the PM overseas trip. When will these idiots learn they cannot talk down the economy or undermine the PM without undermining Australia.

    “………….Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey really are an embarrassment and if they mean what they say about not contributing to the International Monetary Fund then heaven help us if they are ever in a position to practice what they preach. Today in question time the pair were attacking a proper, responsible government for daring to say Australia would make its share of loans to the IMF that turned out to be necessary for that body to deal with another monetary crisis set off by sovereign debt defaults in Europe. With a complete disregard for the consequences of Australia reneging on its obligations, the xenophobic Abbott and Hockey made it clear that a government of theirs would not be helping to prop up a country like Greece.

    Treasurer and acting Prime Minister Wayne Swan made a good fist of pointing out that Australian contributions to the IMF were by way of loans on which we earn interest but that meant nothing to the hopeless Hockey. He was armed with some comments last week by the British Chancellor George Osborne declaring that Britain will not contribute directly to any eurozone bailout or allow the IMF to do the same. That was enough for the shadow Treasurer to advocate Australia taking the same approach.

    Interesting, then, that round about the same time as Abbott and Hockey were peddling their nonsense that the

    BBC political editor Nick Robinson was reporting that the UK government is prepared to give more money to the International Monetary Fund so that it can help struggling eurozone nations. Such a move, said Robinson, could mean debt-ridden nations like Greece, Italy or Spain are indirectly helped by British taxpayers.

    “Chancellor George Osborne has reassured his backbenchers – and won himself favourable headlines in the Eurosceptic press – by declaring that Britain will not contribute directly to any eurozone bailout or allow the IMF to do the same.

    “But he is ready to say that the IMF may need more funds to help ,,,,,,,,,,,,,”

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2011/11/03/a-pair-of-economic-clowns/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Crikey Blogs%2Fthestump+%28The+Stump%29

    PS. I believe the MPI was the lowering of confidence in the community.

  174. Look at the date on this story. 2001 for three years.

    “The Immigration Department has been found to have breached the human rights of an Iranian family who suffered severe mental health conditions during three years of detention.

    The Yousefi family came to Australia by boat in 2001, but were traumatised and psychologically damaged after being separated in detention at Woomera.

    The Human Rights Commission (HRC) has recommended a formal apology, along with more than $1 million in compensation and sweeping changes to the immigration system.

    The Yousefi family came to Australia by boat in 2001 seeking protection and it took three years to determine they were genuine refugees.

    The family’s father, Parvis Yousefi, was separated from his wife Mehrnnoosh and his then 10-year-old child Manoochehr when the mother and child went into residential housing at Woomera.

    What followed for the family, according to the Human Rights Commission, was trauma, psychotic episodes and stultifying depression that exists to this day.

    Mr Yousefi tried to kill himself four times, sewed his lips together and went into a catatonic state. Numerous psychologists and mental health workers demanded the family be removed from detention……..”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-03/hrc-recommends-compo-for-detained-family/3625872

  175. You’re quite right to stress that arrival date, 2001, Cu.

    You’re working late and thinking well! I’m bug eyed after reading all your comments here and on the other threads. On one in particular I am refraining from comment for obvious reasons. My very name seems to offend so I don’t want to disturb the calmer frame of mind being shown by a certain party. But like you, I appreciate it!!

    Goodnight.

  176. The Greek debt crisis reminded me of the story of the US fundamentalist parishioner who approached his pastor and said:

    “I have a big problem, I owe the bank $10,000 and I can’t repay it”

    The Pastor whipped around and said: “You Sir, do not have a problem, the bank has a problem”

    I reckon Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou and the Pastor think alike.

  177. On the MRRT

    ”Mr Forrest is here today and he was part of a press conference and he claims to be a small miner,” the Treasurer said during question time.

    ”We should call a spade a spade. He’s got a $20 billion company. A $20 billion company is not a small miner.”

    Mr Forrest earlier produced an accountants’ report that suggested the three big miners – BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto and Xstrata – would not pay anything under the mining tax for at least five years, while small miners would be stung from the outset.

    The data dates from 2009. Accounting firm BDO, which produced the financial material, confirmed yesterday the report had been paid for by Fortescue Metals, but the company had not sought to ”influence” the findings.”

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/forrest-claims-bunkum-says-swan-20111103-1mxv2.html#ixzz1cg0XQUk2

    Can you imagine Forrest employing an “independent” accounting firm that disagreed with his ideas on the MRRT and publishing it.

  178. I suppose the “out” for BDO is the data date 2009. Why use 2009 why not 2010 or maybe Forrest should ask Treasury.

  181. Sue, they are going to need a good one.

    Their choice of legal firms leave much to be desire.

    PS. I think I might be off thread. It is Qantas I am talking about. It appears there are many that need good auditors.

  182. This lady is going to be awesme when she gets her act together and starts fuctioning. Please visit the site to see some unusual photos.

    “………..?JULIA Gillard appears to be winning support for a boost to an international buffer against more countries following Greece into a debt crisis.

    After a lengthy day of meetings and a working dinner with other leaders of the Group of 20 nations, Ms Gillard said other countries could agree to boost loans to the International Monetary Fund to bail out countries at risk of defaulting on their debts.

    “There is the will to seek, arising from this meeting, a plan of action to address circumstances in the global economy,” Ms Gillard said.

    She said the G20 needed “to give confidence to markets that the world is prepared to come together … to ensure that it has the resources …”

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/pm-julia-gillard-wins-support-g20-summit-for-debt-buffer/story-fn7j19iv-1226185825807

  183. Imagine Abbott in this situation as PM of Australia?

    Apart from being an embarrassment like he was with the Queen he would tell everyone to get stuffed, they aren’t getting a cent from Australia and their best course of action would be to sell Greece to Twiggy Forrest, give it’s airline and planes to Joyce for nothing and let Julie Bishop be president of the Hellenic Republic.

  185. The latest Morgan Poll finally has some good news even for those of us who don’t care much about polls..especially since our team started to lose ;).

    The latest telephone Morgan Poll shows a large drop in support for the
    L-NP 51.5% (down 4% from the telephone Morgan Poll conducted last week on the nights of October 25/26, 2011) compared to the ALP 48.5% (up 4%) on a Two-Party preferred basis. The L-NP primary vote is 45% (down 2%) still well ahead of the ALP 34% (up 3%).

    If a Federal election were held today the L-NP would win with a small majority according to today’s Morgan Poll.

  186. From the G20 talks. This is what Emerson was talking about and what the opposition could not grasp.

    “The leaders backed a plan being driven by Australia to set a road map for trade as the Doha round comes to a halt.

    The round will be broken into more achievable pieces, with the first of these – in terms of Australia’s focus – being reforming trade facilitation, such as fishing subsidies, and helping low-income countries.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/australia-to-host-g20-summit-in-2014/story-e6frfm1i-1226186383535#ixzz1cmf44NTx

  187. And more good news for Gillard, gee 2 good news stories in News Ltd on one day

    THE US has spoken out about its desire to unite with Australia, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam and other nations in a powerful trans-Pacific free trade bloc.

    The multilateral free trade agreement, known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), will be high on the agenda when US President Barack Obama meets with Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard and other leaders at the Asia-Pacific Economic Forum (APEC) in Hawaii next week and when Mr Obama flies to Australia later this month.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/obama-gillard-to-discuss-trade-agreement/story-e6frfkur-1226186410686#ixzz1cmgPUf9n

  188. And 2 bad news stories for Qantas that kind of link, if you read the headlines quickly
    Pollies brand Qantas boss Alan Joyce devious
    Boy survives mauling by rogue kangaroo

    Has News ltd taken out a patent on “rogue”, journalists, kangaroos, airlines

  190. Gee, where have we heard this before ?

    THE Baillieu government has developed a secret plan to goad the state’s nurses into industrial action so it can force them into arbitration, cut nurse numbers and replace them at hospital bedsides with low-skilled ”health assistants”.

    The secret government document outlines an aggressive approach to achieving its policy – by deliberately frustrating pay negotiations – prompting claims from the nurses’ union secretary Lisa Fitzpatrick of ”duplicity”.

    Revealed: secret plan to cut nurse numbers
    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/revealed-secret-plan-to-cut-nurse-numbers-20111105-1n1f9.html

  191. Pip, what most forget, including our illustrious Opposition leader who wants to return to local hospital boards, hospitals bear little resemblance to the hospitals of last century.

    Hospitals today are high tech and require highly trained people.

    There is little left of the devoted nurse, standing by the bed mopping the foreheads of patients.

    Patients are in and out of hospital for most schedule operations within four or give hours. This includes operations that in the fast meant two or three weeks in hospital.

    If you are in hospital for any length of time, you will be in intensive care and very sick.

    To think you can replace these people with very little training, is ignoring reality.

    We will hear much in the next year or two about the increase in industrial unrest. We will not hear that Howard’s AWA” are coming to an end. It is likely the employer is going to fight hard to get these back.

    We have NSW and it appears Victoria now deliberately setting up the climate for ongoing disruption among their public servants. The PS cannot afford to role over and say stroke my stomach.

    I am predicting, what I believe will be true.

    We will hear over and over how bad industrial relations have become. Every strike, no matter how mild will be exaggerated.

    What we will continue to hear how bad FWA is. I say to all, ask who is it bad for?

    The second question to ask, who is Work Choice good for?

    Thirdly I would ask what is good for the nation.

    What we will not hear is the other more than ninety percent of employers who make agreements with their staff and continue to happy workplaces.

    What has become clear this week, but has received very little attention in any media, is that Virgin have good relations with their workers.

    Why?

  192. PIp, CY

    Last week in the Age was the story of the Vic Parks workers who were offered, sorry offered wrong word as offer hints at negotiation, less than the CPI of 2.5%.
    As I have said previously only the Police got an over and beyond offer for pay, then a couple of days later, the OPI report was tabled.

    The illegal activities withinin the office of the Police minister, the resignation of the Minister assisting the Police Minister, the link of the Police Union with the Ministers Office, all this while negotiating a payrise.

    So the nurses like all the workers in the PS of Vic, need dirt on Bailleau.

  193. A very nice piece in today’s SMH:

    FOR Les Murray’s parents, there was no queue to jump, immigration officer to plead with or process to follow. Nor was there a destination, other than to flee Hungary, where Soviet soldiers were crushing the 1956 uprising, in which his father had played a small but dangerous part.

    Murray’s parents, and the go-betweens who helped them cross the Austria-Hungary border one icy winter’s night, risked everything to give their boys freedom. They succeeded.

    It is why the demonisation of so-called people smugglers today prompts mixed feelings in the veteran broadcaster. He does not defend traders in misery. But he knows well that to escape persecution, smugglers are essential. Murray’s smuggler, who he remembered only as Julius, remains his hero. In August, after 55 years, Murray sought to find him.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/my-people-smuggler-my-hero-les-murray-20111105-1n14g.html

  194. I would like to remind people that state employees are not covered by FWA. State employees are cover this way because of the Constitution.

    If workers want any indication of how a future Coalition would treat them, look to what is happening in the states that have Coalition governments.

    It is you will get what we say and shut up

    New laws have been bought in that prevents employees from taking any action, other that striking..

  195. “It is why the demonisation of so-called people smugglers today prompts mixed feelings in the veteran broadcaster. He does not defend traders in misery. But he knows well that to escape persecution, smugglers are essential.”

    Good point. If this is true the smugglers should be given a medal.

    However are the smugglers risking their lives to bring these people to safety??

    Many people risked their lives to get people out of Nazi Germany. I do not think the smugglers in Indonesia are doing the same thing.

    In fact the refugees have safety in Indonesia. If they go elsewhere they are just country shopping.

  196. Plucked from poor villages, boys land in jail
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/plucked-from-poor-villages-boys-land-in-jail-20111105-1n14h.html


    FAISAL ARYSAD was 16 when he was offered a job as a kitchen hand on what he was told was a fishing boat. The offer of $500 was a fortune – almost one year’s pay – for the boy who lived with his mother and grandmother in a dirt-poor fishing village in West Timor.

    When passengers boarded the boat, he was told it was for a sightseeing tour of the surrounding islands. The next he knew, he told his lawyers, their boat was picked up by an Australian navy ship and he was put in detention, then jail.

    ”The people smugglers simply get naive people, and the youths fall into that category,” said Faisal’s Brisbane lawyer, David Svoboda.

  197. Monday, November 07, 2011

    There ain’t going to be a budget surplus, nor should there be – Access
    http://www.petermartin.com.au/

    Labor’s promise of a budget surplus next financial year has turned to ashes. Access Economics says the budget will be in deficit in both 2012-13 and the election year of 2013-14, a projection it says will confirmed in the official mid-year budget update due for release shortly.

    Such an outcome would open Labor to the charge that it hadn’t delivered a surplus in government in more than 20 years.

    But Access has warned Treasurer Wayne Swan against “panel beating” the budget into surplus by finding billions in extra savings, saying such a “gung ho” approach would be dangerous in the current circumstances.

    and
    “But the economy has already weakened and events in Europe hold out the prospect of it weakening further. I don’t think that tightening into that fragility would help the economy.”

    Mr Richardson said his advice applied to both sides of politics…

    “Mr and Mrs Suburbs think a dollar in surplus means you’re a genius, and a dollar in deficit means you’re a dunce. Politicians of both sides have played to that. They should back off.”

    “Abandoning the surplus will be a bitter pill for the government to swallow and an easy target for the opposition to attack. The government should do it and the opposition should hold fire.”

    ltd news won’t try to explain to “Mr. and Mrs. Suburbs”, but they too should “back off”.

  198. The Access report said while it did not expect a disaster in Europe, if there was one the government should be prepared to spend to stimulate the economy as it did during the global financial crisis.

    “For all the unpopularity of the stimulus spending, it did its job very well. Please don’t let populism derail a new stimulus if we need it,” the report said.

  199. People smugglers, war criminals and retrospective laws
    http://cdulawonline.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/people-smugglers-war-criminals-and-retrospective-laws/

    I wouldn’t necessarily object at least on moral grounds if this was just closing a loophole allowing people smuggling “kingpins” to continue trading on human desperation and putting lives at serious risk. But in fact some of the defendants are poor, ill-educated Indonesian children and far more worthy of sympathy than the spoiled brat Australian teenager currently facing gunja charges in Bali whose family is about to profit to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars from selling his story.

    Even where the “people smugglers” are adults, they are generally poor, uneducated fishermen who are almost as desperate and lacking in viable choices as their asylum seeker cargo. Do we really think irregular migration is such a serious problem that it’s desirable to demonise these people and flout a fundamental principle against retrospective criminal laws? The problem of retrospectively criminalising conduct that was not (or at least may not have been) a crime when committed is compounded by the fact that even minor involvement as a first offender in people smuggling now carries mandatory imprisonment for a three year term. It is a draconian combination for anyone concerned by basic human rights issues.

  200. We are putting the wrong people in jail in this country. There have been some arrests in Indonesia of those who run the boats.

    The last boat load that sunk had absconded from a detention camp. This makes lies of those who say, those who leave Indonesia are fleeing from where they are safe.

    We can do something that might lead to fewer risking their lives in leaky boats. If we took a few thousand from that country, it just might give those left behind some hope that they can reach a country where they can have a normal life. Do things like having a job and educating their kids.

  201. Is the PM legit? Yes she is.

    The article below is a good read. It is a history lesson that most Autralians should know.

    “………….. However, many still yearn for the days of Howard. Things were simple, and John Winston’s word was law. An iron fist in a glove, likely bearing some kind of Wallabies logo.

    Indulging in such nostalgia is to ignore his capitulation to the demands of the Democrats on the GST in 1998. Or having to wait until he controlled the Senate to enact Voluntary Student Unionism, Workchoices and the end of the Government’s controlling stake in Telstra to name but a few. As the saying goes: ‘I’d rather have 50 per cent of something than 100 per cent of nothing.’

    ………………The second point is that Ms Gillard isn’t a real Prime Minister because she first ascended to the office mid-term, without the mandate of an election. How many Australian leaders before her have so dared to grasp power so blatantly, so cunningly? Most of them, actually.

    For the buffs among us, Ms Gillard’s achievement places her in the company of Messrs Watson, Reid, Fisher, Hughes, Bruce, Page, Menzies, Fadden, Curtin, Forde, Chifley, Holt, McEwen, Gorton, McMahon, Fraser and Keating. Indeed, two thirds of Australian Prime Ministers have taken the oath of office not in the warm afterglow of an election victory, but rather following a vote of no confidence in either the parliament or the party room. …………

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/democracy-is-dead-long-live-democracy1/

  202. Further on above

    “Democracy is something to be cherished and defended. We should continue questioning, and in some cases, mercilessly mocking all Prime Ministers.

    But to label one as illegitimate is more than mockery. It is tantamount to rejecting our system of government, our democracy, and our history….”

  203. Pip at 2.42 I thought the Rudd/ Swan response to the first global financial crisis was spot on and this has been proven despite the political spin by the opposition. It was a courageous move and deserved more kudos than it got from the MSM.
    It worked because Australia could afford it and had the capacity to pay it back; more of an investment /borrow spend (better result than the alternative – a recession).
    Europe on the other hand, were doing what I call running up the credit card again and again and spending the money on holidays and junk for the garage. They spent beyond their means to repay and the money went on fairy candy floss.
    Two very different spending decisions with different economic outcomes.
    Special note for Nell – I made a lot of money out of the first global financial crisis so I reckon I was not deluding myself like your Liberal party buddies.

  204. Luna, this ties in nicely with this topic,

    A pair of economic clowns
    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2011/11/03/a-pair-of-economic-clowns/

    Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey really are an embarrassment and if they mean what they say about not contributing to the International Monetary Fund then heaven help us if they are ever in a position to practice what they preach. Today in question time the pair were attacking a proper, responsible government for daring to say Australia would make its share of loans to the IMF that turned out to be necessary for that body to deal with another monetary crisis set off by sovereign debt defaults in Europe. With a complete disregard for the consequences of Australia reneging on its obligations, the xenophobic Abbott and Hockey made it clear that a government of theirs would not be helping to prop up a country like Greece.

  206. Due to popular demand i have been asked to comment on the Open Thread.

    Mate there are some dumb journalists in this country. And even dumber people who believe what they say.

    Phil Coorey, Oakes , pascoe– please.

    I wish these three were in charge of your Superannuation

  207. It’s unbelievable isn’t it, Sue and BSA Bob, that only now are these things being said in the MSM.

    We all shook our heads when Joyce had Shadow Finance. Sloppy Joe’s not much better, is he?

    Reminds me that Just as our National Anthem has several verses, I’ve been adding to the ALP’s Song of Joyce from time to time at http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/more-verses-for-the-song-of-joyce/

    Until now it hadn’t occured to me until now that dear old Sloppy Joe fitted just as well!

    ALP Song of Joe!

    So lefties all let us rejoice!
    For they have Sloppy Joe!
    He’s out there now with charts to show
    One into two won’t go.
    North Sydney’s given such a gift,
    A talent rich and rare.
    No need to rage, at every stage
    Sloppy Joe is there!
    As Tony strains to make some gains
    Sloppy Joe is there!

  209. It is a simple world when one is able to label every journalist and expert that you disagree with as stupid.

    It much be very lonely being the only one in step.

    I came here to say, I have just heard Senator Faulkiner speech in the Senate on climate change.

    It was one of the most forcible and easy to understand speeches on the subject I have heard. It was also very passionate.

    Nine out of the 13 years have been the hottest world wide since modern records have been kept. The statistics for Australia were worse.

    All I am hearing from the Opposition is that “she” lied or how bad the Greens are. Nothing or very little on the Clean Energy Bill.

    I have never heard the Senator so eloquent.

  210. Catching up, same as kids behind the shelter sheds you’re dumb, you stink. It doesn’t add much to the debate does it. If you do not agree with what a journalist says, then state exactly what is wrong with their argument or their interpretation of events.

  211. I cannot work out the fascination with the Opposition on leftists blogs.

    especially since most policies of the current govt are complete failures.

    Turning a $20B surplus into a $50B deficit takes some doing.

    Going from 6 boat people in detention to 6,000 is another disaster by the ALP.

    It almost seems that everything they touch they make worse.

  212. Neil, just as an observer I would say that a problem that you have is that you keep talking about ancient history. People who are talking about the Opposition are talking about a potential future government. Aren’t you interested in what Tony Abbott and cronies have on offer?

  213. Maybe we should be looking at Mr. Abbott’s announcement or stunt today.

    That is his and Ms. Mirabella new policy on the Ante Dumping Laws

    They are populist and aimed at the lowest denominator in society.

    One would think after his efforts last week on economics, he would give the subject is a wide berth.

    I have not seen the details yet, but the information he gave at his press conference is enough to raise concerns.

    Some information as to where Ante Dumping Laes are at now.

    http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4227.asp

  214. No I am not interested in what Abbott has to offer. the election is two years away.

    I am interested in what the govt is/is not doing. Will they completely trash the country before the Coalition is elected.

    Anyway policies change after election. Rudds NBN was only going to cost $4.7B and be finished in 5 years. People thought this would be a great idea. Well if Rudd is going to keep his election promise it will have to be finished next year for a cost of $4.7B

  216. “I cannot work out the fascination with the Opposition on leftists blogs”

    Neil, I find it hard why you are so fascinated with this site.

    You do not agree with one word that is said here.

    Why would we not want to know what the Opposition is up to. After all they are putting themselves up as the next government.

    Why are rightist blogs focus on the PM. Not only focus on but show so much hate.

  217. Well Neil they have now passed 120 bills, some substantial. Tomorrow at noon they will pass 19 more.

    What has Mr. Abbott achieved. He has not stopped or even amended one bill.

  218. No if Abbott was in power the total focus of this blog would be what is Abbott doing. The ALP in Opposition would not get a story on this blog.

    When Abbott wins the net election the focus of all left wing blogs will be on Abbott just like it is now when he is in Opposition.

    It was the same on Dunlops blog. Story after story about Howard before the 2007 election but nothing on Rudd who was going to be the next PM.

  219. Neil

    Please provide we with the number of bills that have not passed through parliament in the last 4 years before you tell me this government is a failure.

    Please also look at the unemployment rate, interest rates, corporate profits, mining and bank super profits etc,etc before you tell me this government is totally ruining the country.

    You have 1 single line of attack called a deficit.

    You attack based on left wing mantra yet refuse to see the most obvious failure of capitalism. The most capitalist country on earth the USA is the most indebted country and even owes billions to the communists. In the last 60 years there has only ever been 4 surpluses in the USA and 3 of those were by the Democrats ( the ALP equivalent). So the conservative party in the most capitalist country on earth has rung up the most debt over the most years.

    One of the most profitable countries on earth with no debt and sufficient income earning reserves to look after its population is Norway, one of the most socialist and highest taxing countries on earth but with one of the best and most desireable living standards in the world for all their citizens even the pensioners.

    Sufficient proof to me that this leftwing name calling over socialist policies and deficits and debt is absolute garbage.

  220. Just tuned in to the Senate and there is a shrewish type banging on about those dreadful Greens, trouble is I stopped listening when she
    said “somethink”….

    OK , she’s just been named, Senator Cash…I should have known…she always appears to be very angry.

    Screech, screech !!

  221. “No if Abbott was in power the total focus of this blog would be what is Abbott doing”

    Neil, you bet it will.

    We will be watching every move he makes and I for one will be ensuring he is made accountable.

    We cannot rely on the media to do its job.

  222. Neil and No I am not interested in what Abbott has to offer.

    One minute your say you’re not interested in Abbott because the election is 2 years away but that you’re interested in the government. Good to hear this. That means that all that it’s all been wasted space with Abbott droning on endlessly about another election.

  223. Neil

    I cannot work out the fascination with the government on rightist blogs.

    It is a free country and anyone can freely comment about either side of politics on the blog site they create.

    Please tell me the last time a positive blog was made about the ALP on Piers Akermans blog. Conversley tell me the last time a negative blog about the coalition was made. This when the coalition and the ALP have both been in opposition and government.

    Piers comments have always been obsessed with the ALP, not with the government of the day, and he is in a daily newspaper not just a little blogsite like this one.

  224. Pip, you did miss a good speech. Senator Faulkner on climate change.

    Notice all the Opposition can talk about is “she” lied and how bad the Greens are.

    They are incapable of debating the merits and negatives of the Clean Energy Bill.

    I suspect they have not read or understand it.

  225. Shane, excellent point. I believe that several posters here have remarked that none of their comments will be accepted on either a Bolt or an Akers blog.

  226. What I do not understand why those on the right believe one that has so called left views, should feel shame.

    I am proud of my political views. It has taken a lifetime experience to be where I am now. Over sixty years. There has been a lot of water under the bridge during that time.

    Once people were proud to be working class.

  227. Cu,
    We cannot rely on the media to do its job.

    I posted this on Media Watch.

    Menacing media talks up another Labor coup
    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3644026.html

    All in all it is not a tempting scenario; the current program of muddling along and hoping that something will turn up seems likely to continue for a while yet. And of course most of the media will continue to ignore the real issues of government while slavering obsessively over the opinion polls:

    “If an election was to be held next weekend which party would receive your first preference?”

    “But hang on, an election won’t be held next weekend …”

    “Shut up and answer my stupid, meaningless hypothetical question.”

    Such is the breadth and depth of current Australian politics.

  228. Cu,
    I did manage to catch some of Senator Faulkner’s fine speech spelling out the facts in a way that even the Opposition could have understood, if they were listening.
    Seems to me, that the opposition are so unhinged with anger, that they’re barely capable of debating anything

  229. Pip, it is not only the polls that decide the legitimacy of government, it is now the betting market as well.

    Australians are quite capable of voting for people they do not like.

    There was never any great widespread love for Howard as I recall.

  230. When the economy tightens the government of the day should see to it
    that money continues to circulate, not tighten the purse strings.
    Surplus versus deficit is a strawman argument.

    Axe NBN to reach surplus says Opposition Leader Tony Abbott
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/axe-nbn-to-reach-surplus-says-opposition-leader-tony-abbott/story-e6frf7jx-1226187676213

    AXING the national broadband network would help bring the Federal Budget back into surplus next financial year, Opposition leader Tony Abbott says.
    But he says he doubts the Gillard Government “has the ticker” to make tough financial decisions to avoid further deficit.

    Tony Abbott seems not to know the difference between his a… or his elbow
    when it comes to the economy, and would be happy if no infrastructure was ever built to improve Australia’s industries.

  231. Pip, at least they appear sober today. They did not last Thursday.

    Even Cash today was not up to her normal performance. She can perform much worse than what you seen today.

  233. Billionaire Tinkler investigated over Nationals campaign donations
    http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/billionaire-tinkler-investigated-over-nationals-campaign-donations-20111107-1n3ch.html


    One of Australia’s richest men, the billionaire mining magnate Nathan Tinkler, is being investigated over a potential breach of political donation laws involving gifts of $50,000 to the Nationals.

    The NSW Election Funding Authority launched the investigation after it was discovered Mr Tinkler was a director of a property development company.

    Under NSW law, property developers are prohibited from donating to political parties.

  234. “Please provide we with the number of bills that have not passed through parliament in the last 4 years before you tell me this government is a failure.”

    I think most of the ALP policies have been failures. We went from 6 people in detention to 6,000 just because of a change in policy. We went from a $20B surplus to a $50B deficit. It would not surprise me if the only good govt policies are those left by the Howard govt

    Our current good economy is mainly due to the good condition in 2007. In 4 years not even the ALP can totally stuff a place. But another 5 years of $50B deficits will see us in big trouble.

    And i am not sure if the democrats in the US are the American equivalent of the ALP. In terms of govt intervention in the economy I think they would be more similar to the Coalition with labor to the left of the Democrats.

  235. Pip, Abbott will find that cutting everything does cost money, even the NBN.

    Any way, he will not have the power to do so for many years. Control of the Senate will only be available long after he is gone.

  236. Neil, you have no idea of the types of bills that have been passed.

    You are not interested in knowing, as the information will be another inconvenient truth for you.

    Every thing have mentioned belonged to the last government.

  240. Catching up, that’s my impression about Neil too. He admitted himself, he’s not interested in a future Abbott government or any future government. This shows by the way that the best that he can do is to only be able to repeat a few ancient Liberal Party talking points.

  241. AntonyG, talking points well past their use by date.

    In other words stale.

    Even Mr. Abbott sounded stale today.

  242. Oh dear tacky, tacky..yet more tackiness from Qld LNP..eww O’Sullivan. I don’t know what Greg Newton looks like but if it was O’Sullivan who won, I hope that those virgins were offered double pay and bonuses…

    The Courier-Mail has obtained a letter from a senior LNP member in which he complains of an alleged bet between controversial party treasurer Barry O’Sullivan and Sunshine Coast official Greg Newton where the winner was promised a trip to Bali with two virgins.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/lnp-party-barry-osullivan-and-official-greg-newton-allegedly-bet-on-last-federal-election-with-winner-promised-trip-to-bali-with-two-virgins/story-e6frf7jo-1226187702863

  244. Thanks to Eddie on Facebook

    Policy on the run has opposition in disarray over mining tax

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/policy-on-the-run-has-opposition-in-disarray-over-mining-tax-20111106-1n1vl.html


    The tortuous process that was the evolution of the mining tax was a salient example of how not to embark on tax reform. Now that the legislation for the final version – the Minerals Resources Rent Tax – is before Parliament, the response of the opposition is starting to look equally messy.

    And little surprise. Because the pledge to wind back this tax and all the measures that it will fund is daft politics.

    Already, the Coalition looks as though it is making it up as it goes along.

    Some of us were aware of this failing some time ago…

  246. Well, well…

    Leaks torpedo Australia Network tender process
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-07/australia-network-story5c/3650798

    The Federal Government has terminated the tender process for the Australia Network.

    The ABC currently holds the contract but is competing with Sky News to retain it.

    Communications Minister Stephen Conroy says the Government has received legal advice that significant leaks have compromised the process.

    The Government has granted the ABC a six-month extension to the contract while the Government resolves the issue.

    More to come.

    I’ll bet there is more to come !

  247. Tones is flying to London. Can we expect a stopover in Afghanistan on his way home? Or will he be too tired?

  248. Roswell
    Apart from a breather, why the exit?
    Could it be that he doesn’t want to be here when the Carbon Tax passes?
    He needs to apologise to the Queen, or Cameron?
    Has the internal Coalition polling seen a change?

  249. Roswell, and Tony isn’t exactly getting any good publicity for doing so..from Malcolm Farr and the Herald Sun no less,

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/carbon-showdown-but-abbott-takes-great-big-new-trip/story-e6frf7jx-1226188049222

    TONY Abbott will be out of the country tomorrow when the carbon pricing measures he dedicated himself to blocking become law.

    The Opposition Leader this evening revealed he will fly to Britain to attend the International Democratic Union meeting of conservative political leaders.

  251. Robb really pissed off at Abbott and that’s exactly the way the media reported it.

    Abbott has just added billions more to the Liberal party bottom line and Abbott yet again did it without any consultation with anyone in his party. This is over the move from 9% to 12% super contributions.

    How come when Rudd even in opposition did some things without consultation the whole world was caving in, yet Abbott not only lies nearly on a daily basis but continuously commits the Liberals to billions for the next election without consulting a single member of his party, yet hardly a boo from the media or his own side.

    But I think this time he as gone a few billion too far and not only is the media reporting his brain fart as such his party members are openly antagonistic against him.

    I think that Abbott will be spilt a long time before any Labor leader is.

  252. Sue, all three.

    Mr. Abbott does not like answering questions. In fact he is no good at answering questions. he has never been any good at answering questions.

    I predict we are seeing his swan song.

    Of course he will have to call in on the troops. he cannot let the PM have one up on him.

    maybe it will be harder to walk away from the press in the mother country.

  253. Neil

    Tony Abbott is attending a Internation Democratic Union ( yes a Union) meeting of conservative politcial leaders.

    The member of this union of conservative parties from the USA is the Republican Party. Not the democrats who align themselves with the ALP in terms of social policies such as universal health etc,etc.

    You can think what you like but the facts speak for themselves.

    Will our current good economy in 10 years still be as a result of 2007. Somewhere along the line you need to let go and accept that things have changed and we are still here.

    You talk about saving for the future and the future fund and costello putting money away for the future.

    Your “levy for everything government” screwed all employees by halting any increase in the compulsory superannuation levy at 9% as soon as they entered office. These employees who rely solely on the levy would have 40% more to retire on now, even with the GFC if it had been left alone and the future pension burdon on the country would have been slowly lifted.

    It is acknowledged that one of the things that saved our economy from the GFC was the trillions ( yes trillions) held in superfunds as a result of the super levy.

    Funny that the one true levy to benefit every single citien in the country was the one they wrecked.

  254. I visited a KMart today for the first time since I saw their ads stating how cheap their prices are now.

    No wonder why. All no name branded crap and the experience was like walking into a crazy clarks or $2 shop only the prices were $3.

    They have lost a shopper in this person and it seemed very quiet compared to before this so called wonderful idea as well.

  255. Shane

    I think you are basically right. But i have never seen a Republican support gun control laws like Howard did.

    I made my decision about Labor based on passed history. They ALWAYS blow the budget. Except perhaps in NSW where State Labor has generally been O.K.

    In my lifetime they almost sent Victoria bankrupt and lost control of the budget under Keating

  256. CU

    We know Tony Abbott doesn’t answer questions because at every press conference I have seen him organise as soon as the questions deviate from his plan or become difficult he shuts up shop and simply walks away. I have lost count.

    I don’t expect him to be hounded but I do expect him to be treated exactly the same as the PM in regards to answering questions. Or the reporting of refusing to answer them.

  257. CU I reckon Abbott is done – stick a fork in him. The whole midnight flight out of the country, the series of policy blunders, the wild announcements without telling any of his Liberal colleagues, the soon to be announced swing in the polls etc
    What odds would I get at Centerbet that he will be gone within three weeks?

  258. And the Liberals lost control of the budget under Fraser and have in the past as well. State Liberal governments have also lost control as you put it of the budget. The last NSW Labor government was one of the worst State governments in a long time, maybe only Cain/Kirner were worse.

    But it’s not losing control at all.

    You are wrongly fixated on budget deficits to the exclusion of all else because you believe it’s the one thing that you can consistently bash Labor with because you Howard due to laziness and not spending where it was needed managed record surpluses during the longest sustained economic boom in world history, and was handed a good economy by half by his own admission.

    Hawke/Keating did the hard work, Howard/Costello rode the good winds on auto pilot whilst the boat around them was falling apart because of lack of care and investment.

  259. Methinks Abbott is a coward after all and is running from his own party. Robb was visibly livid and very angry at Abbott.

    The thing is that’s the way the media reported it, a media that is usually very kind to Abbott and that overlooks most of his brain farts, foibles and fibs. Not this time.

  260. Neil

    I agree with you on blowing the budget at times by the ALP but you comment as though it is only the leftwing retards who cause defecits and this is just not true.

    Another thing you need to consider is the state of the economy and the world economy when blaming governments for going into deficit for a period of time.

    When the proof shows the most indebted nation is a result of capitalism and mainly due to the extremist conservative party, which then borrows from the leftard very wealthy communist country it doesn’t speak well for extreme capitalism does it.

    And when a predominantly socilaist country has the best living conditions for all of its citizens and sufficient wealth because it has taxed its mines correctly ( and they did not flee the country) and saved it doesn’t speak well for the overall end result of conservative capitalist policies does it.

    If tax cuts to the rich make a country better then the USA should be booming. Instead they have destroyed their middle class and forced them to the working poor. Decimated their tax revenue to pay for all of these wars and military that the republicans chest beat about. Have no funds to even manitain their essential services such as roads, prisons and infrastrucutre. Lost their manufacturing base to China. All in a little over 20 years when the first major tax cuts to the rich instigated by Roanld Reagan were implemented.

    Over the last 15 years we have headed down the same tax cuts to the rich scandal. We are now seeing our manufacturing go offshore. We have less revenue to collect even though the richest in our country have become richer and the welath is becoming more concentrated in the top few. Our wokers are receiving pay rises of less than inflation as they slowly become working poor. The bosses receive 72% wage increase even if their copamny has lost 52% of its value.

    It doesn’t take an ecenomic genius to see where we are heading with our actions. Sadly you need look no further than the USA. Whereas I had hoped we would be looking at Norway instead.

  261. ME

    I think Tony has become so negative against anything the government or minor parties or independents say or propose that he just automatically says no.

    Problem is always saying no will end up getting you caught out somewhere along the line. Seems that time has started turning up.

  262. Shane

    I am not sure our Conservatives are the same as the American Conservatives. They have some similarities.

    “Hawke/Keating did the hard work, Howard/Costello rode the good winds on auto pilot whilst the boat around them was falling apart because of lack of care and investment.”

    I do not agree with this. Howard was handed unemployment at 8% and the largest debt in our history. Shane has just asked me will our economy in 10 years time be a result of 2007.

    You have just given any good news under Howard due to Keating.

    Keating deregulated the banking industry, flogged off Qantas, Commonwealth Bank. We were doomed if Keating won in 1996

  263. Rather chuffed I was at Abbott’s explanation as to where the money to fund his, yes his very own super commitments was to come from- “we’ll find it in budget savings”. The universal answer, I look forward to the day when he’s promised to save more than the budget’s total expenditure, it can’t be far off.

  264. But in this case Shane it was Abbott saying yes. Yes to the government’s 3% rise to the compulsory super surcharge.

    So on a very rare occasion he says yes and like his no’s it’s done without one word to anyone in his party, but he screws it very badly because the government had funded their policy, Abbott had not.

    So when Abbott is confronted at a press conference at just where he will find the funding, and Robb is within earshot, Abbott says “through savings”. Robb jumps to his feet visible angry and very pissed at Abbott.

    So it is a Yes that has got Abbott into so much shit, that and yet again brain farting without a single word or consultation with his own side.

  265. Howard was handed falling unemployment, falling interest rates, a falling deficit and an improving economy, one that had been improving at least two years before Howard got into power.

    At a post first budget speech Howard himself said he was handed a better economy by half than he had thought possible.

    And again you go on about debt, but if debt is so bad and so terrible then why aren’t you lambasting Howard as treasurer when he handed Hawke such a terrible economy.

  266. shaneinqld
    Last week when Shorten was speaking of the changes in superannuation, he commented on the USA under Reagan. Back in 1980 the Unions wanted compulsory superannuation, Reagan said no.Shorten said that if Reagan had adopted super at 3% as suggested and then let it rise as in the approach here, then the USA would have had trillions in savings. Instead they have the 1% with the billions, millions unemployed and infrastructure failing.

  267. ME

    IMO he didn’t say yes he just didn’t say they would remove it. It was never his idea to say yes to and he never agreed to it he has just said they would not remove it.

    Because they will not remove it he now has his party fidning so many savings that they will have to shut down just about everything ( other than parliament and politicans and their gravy train) to find the shortfall.

    He will probably annouce the retrenchment of 60,000 public servants. Then watch the economy tank when all those joba disappear in the name of not taxing the mines or having carbon pricing.

  268. Also Neil on your continuous attack on debt = very bad, but only when Labor has a debt, you are saying that it is preferable to have recessions, social regression, failing infrastructure, failing general health, failing education, increasing inequality, more working poor and a degrading environment is preferable than having a debt that is well within your means to pay back.

  271. Neil

    I am furious and will never forgive Keating for selling The Commonwealth Bank, Telecom Australia, Qantas. The arguments for their sale were garbage. They could have kept them and reaped the dividends while still having some federal control over those sectors of essential services throuh public ownership. 1 years profit of the CBA is now more than the value of the whole sales of the CBA by the government.. There was no logic to the sales. Debt was not reduced but jobs, branches and service were lost. Sale of the public asset allowed the private companies in the same field off the profit leash to the detriment of country areas and jobs and service.

    However sale of all public assets is Coalition and conservative policy. The asset sales continued under the ” Levy for everything Government” at breakneck speed along with user pays fees which were once covered under taxes. Hundreds of Government owned authorities and entities were off loaded by John Howard in many areas where people were unaware we even had public ownership. One example the Housing Loans Insurance Corporation ( HLIC) this was the authority strted by the government to insure banks if they lend more than 80% to home loan borrowers. It was sold off to GE and guess what, premiums skyrocketed and rules and regulations were bent or abandoned or restricted simply to generate massive profits for the private sector. It was originally started to get first home buyers into their homes and it ended up a cash cow for private enterprise with the premiums very expensive to generate profits, which were not needed for a statutory authority.

    Keatings major victory and the legacy he leaves, which will be remembered for many years to come is the Superannuation Guarantee Levy. It is a pity the “Levy For Everything Government” could not see the vision at the time but could only listen to the lies of business stating they were going broke.

  273. “Then watch the economy tank when all those joba disappear in the name of not taxing the mines or having carbon pricing.”

    You have to be a leftoid Shane. I was around from 1996-2007 and I did not see what you said happen.

    In case you don’t know Swan is getting record amounts of revenue from mining. Much more than Costello did. Unfortunately for us Swan is a reckless spender. I would not give him any more revenue as he will just waste it.

  274. El gordo I was in Europe last year and was appalled at the attitudes so rife in some countries. In Italy they couldn’t give a damn about anything yet every second day someone was on strike.

    Interestingly, the economic situation of each country was reflected in their attitudes. Germany is in a sound position. Germans are perfectionists.

    Italy is on the ropes. Italians, well, aren’t perfectionists.

  276. Sue

    I see no future for the USA. It has forgotten its social conscience in the political arena. It will continue to decline because it has become a culture of less tax and no thought for anyone except the individual.

    When this happens the counry dies from within.

    Unless the people actually force change in the way the government system and the rorts and bribery and down right undemocratic processes are halted and turned around there is no future IMO.

  277. Neil

    Just because you did not see something does not mean it did not happen. I suggest you actually do some research into the “Levy For Everything” years looking beyond you 2 pets items of the defecit and the future fund.

    Start with the HLIC.

    How much is Swan getting from the mining industry in comparison to Howard ?. Do you have a figure for me ?

  278. One needs to remember the right side of politics and the employers fought the introduction of Super as we know it all the way.

    The right was terrified if unions had a input into Super funds, they would become too powerful.

    The right and employers at the same time, seen nothing wrong with employer or private funds. what was feared, was workers having control of their own money.

    As for the Mr..Costello Future Fund, has not the money been invested outside Australia, in Europe. Maybe Mr. Costello should have known this was dangerous.

    Mr. Swan, with the lessening of growth and a reduction in receipts, has the excuse one needs to attack middle to upper welfare.

    It also has the chance to move some tax burden from the lower incomes to the higher. There is plenty of low fruit to do this.

    If the government attempts to balance the books by making the lower income earner pay or reduce services, the economy will go backwards.

  280. I didn’t visit Greece, but I know what their attitude is like. 🙂

    They say it’s a wonderful place to holiday, however it’s never been on my radar. I just couldn’t picture myself riding an ass up a steep hill.

  282. “Howard was handed falling unemployment, falling interest rates, a falling deficit and an improving economy, one that had been improving at least two years before Howard got into power”

    Mr. Costello left a structural deficit and falling productivity that is still being addressed.

    The high productivity this country has seen during the Hawke, Keating years and collective bargaining.

    WorkChoices did nothing to stop falling productivity rates in spite of workers conditions being pulled back or disappearing.

  283. Well if you trust a Liberal politician Malcolm Turnbull has some figures.

    http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/speeches/budget-in-reply-speech-labor-wasting-the-boom/

    Swan said Costello wasted the boom which started in 2004. Well lets look at the figures

    “According to the Treasury’s central case the resources boom delivered a revenue windfall of about $25 billion over the last three budgets delivered by Peter Costello. Those three budgets were in surplus by $53 billion so all of the income from the boom and more was banked, although Treasury’s central case estimate suggests the budget was in a small structural deficit in 2007-08.”

    So Swan said Costello wasted the boom which he didn’t. What about Swan?

    “During the four budgets delivered so far by Labor in this term of government the Treasury figures from October last year suggest that the federal government has benefited from a terms of trade windfall of at least $90 billion, with the largest single boost coming in the 2011-12 financial year we are about to commence. According to the latest government forecasts deficits run up by Labor over those four years from 2008-09 to 2011-12 will total $154 billion.”

    BHP’s profits are double what they were when Costello was in power. Anyone who wants to give Swan any more money is a fool.

  284. I noticed that this government is getting on with job of bringing the Hume Highway up to standard. Doing the work, not talking about it.

    I believe they also open some new work on the Pacific Highway in the North recently.

  285. It is just with Greece the culture was to avoid tax and bribe government officials.

    Rather than fix this area they have simply decimated the average worker and retiree, resulting in the economy tanking.

    However I do agree with extending the retirement age which was too low over there.

  286. “In case you don’t know Swan is getting record amounts of revenue from mining. Much more than Costello did. Unfortunately for us”

    Maybe but not enough. The minerals belong to the people.

    Receipts in other areas are falling. Therefore the need for the MRRT.

  287. “In case you don’t know Swan is getting record amounts of revenue from mining. Much more than Costello did. Unfortunately for us Swan is a reckless spender. I would not give him any more revenue as he will just waste it.”

    The Howard government taxed at a much higher rate.

    What has Swan wasted money on. There has been cuts made in every budget.

    Mr. Howard in his later years was a high spender. I do not know what he spent the money on, as infrastructure was run dow when he left office.

  288. “I just couldn’t picture myself riding an ass up a steep hill.
    ”

    You do not have to ride the ass. You can go around to the other side of the island. It is a wonderful place to visit, and one does get very fit, climbing hills and a couple hundred steps each day.

    The problem in Greece could be that they get into their PJs twice a day.

  289. Neil

    How quickly you forget. I told you I trusted Joe Hockey. Unlike yourself I can actually find good in both sides ( I see no good in Tony Abbott ).

    I actually do trust Malcom Turnbull as well and I probably would have voted for him as well. He was most impressive on Sunrise this morning. He is hamstrung into supporting crap policies and decisions by Tony Abbott.

    It seems that the figures include forecasts for 2011-2012 year which has not even eventuated yet, so I will try and find actual results because as much as I like Malcolm Turnbull including forecast windfalls can quite often manipulate something to achieve the desired result.

  290. Does one noticed that Neil once again ignores an inconvenient truth.

    That of GFC, which is seen as one of the worse since the pre-war depression years.

  291. “Well if you trust a Liberal politician Malcolm Turnbull has some figures’

    As a certain, blonde , in the Profumo Affair, if my memory is right, said. he would say that, wouldn’t he.

  292. “That of GFC, which is seen as one of the worse since the pre-war depression years.”

    Well Turnbull talks about that. We are in large deficit because of a large spending increase.

    http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/speeches/budget-in-reply-speech-labor-wasting-the-boom/

    “And for all Labor’s claims that its record deficits have been caused by weak revenues, first because of the GFC and more recently because of the strong exchange rate, capital gains losses, which have reduced post-GFC capital gains tax collections and the patchwork economy, if we really want to understand what has been going on with the federal budget we need to look at the outlays side—the spending side. There we can seen that annual spending has risen by $90 billion since the last year of the Howard government. That is a rise of 33 per cent in nominal terms and more than 20 per cent after adjusting for price changes. That is the equivalent of adding the annual expense of four additional Defence forces, three extra education and training systems or two new national health and hospital services to the existing expenses in the last Costello budget—in just four years. No wonder we are in deep deficit despite full employment, an unemployment rate starting with a four and the strongest terms of trade in our history.”

    Now I guess you will say we needed the extra spending to save the country from recession. Who knows??

  298. Roswell, the problem is that the ancients seem to find pleasure in putting all their big buildings on top of hills. The houses seem to be on steep sides of hills. Shanks pony is the only means of transport. I came home very fit.

  299. I think in those days houses were built on hills as a means of defense. Now they are for keeping people fit.

  300. Roswell,
    if the traveller only went up 100 steps a day, and went back down again, he/she would never reach the top.
    Therefore the traveller would have to camp on the hill for the night, although being ‘leggy’ might present a problem with a sleeping bag.

  306. The OO should tell us somethin g we didn’t know.

    IR has law ‘gone too far’ with Work Choices, says Malcolm Turnbull

    by: Joe Kelly
    From: The Australian November 08, 2011 12:00AM

    THE Coalition should not shrink from advocating industrial reform in the face of government warnings of a return to Work Choices, former Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull said last night.
    Tony Abbott, who has ruled out a return to statutory individual contracts, is facing growing calls from within his party to make the case for industrial reform following the extraordinary decision of Qantas management to ground its fleet last month.
    .
    Log In. No need we get the message !

  307. Well we have Mr. Abbott’s stunt for when the USA President visits.

    “………….Abbott leaves trail of fumes as Senate finalises carbon tax ………

    .After more than a decade of debate, during which the issue contributed to the downfall of two prime ministers and three opposition leaders, bills to implement a carbon price are expected to pass the Senate today, in time for the $23-a-tonne tax to begin in July.

    The Coalition – which has opposed carbon pricing since Tony Abbott overthrew Malcolm Turnbull in December 2009 to stop the Coalition voting for the former Rudd government’s emissions trading legislation – was fighting the carbon tax laws to the end…………

    … But Mr Abbott, who led a highly successful political campaign against the tax, will be on a trip to Britain at the time of the vote. And the no carbon tax protesters are holding their fire for a rally to coincide with the visit of the US President, Barack Obama, next week, by which time the tax will be law..”

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/abbott-leaves-trail-of-fumes-as-senate-finalises-carbon-tax-20111107-1n3yt.html#ixzz1d1kX41en…………..”

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/abbott-leaves-trail-of-fumes-as-senate-finalises-carbon-tax-20111107-1n3yt.html

  308. Cu,
    I can’t imagine what Abbott will get up to when he meets President Obama, but it will probably be embarassing.

  309. Young Europeans drawn to far right
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-07/young-europeans-drawn-to-far-right/3650960

    ADAM HARVEY: Loewenstein is a contributor to a new book on the rise of the far right. The book, “On Utoya” is a series of essays prompted by the massacre on Norway’s Utoya Island by extremist Anders Breivik.

    ANTONY LOWENSTEIN: His manifesto, 1500 page manifesto very clearly stated mainstream views these days, mainstream being anti-immigration, anti-Islam, very, talking about white pride, white culture, very supportive of Israel, supportive of the idea of Israel being a strong nation dealing with the Islam or the Muslim and the Arab problem. And that’s the kind of thing that used to be on the fringes but now is very mainstream.

    Isn’t it interesting that when the massacre first hit the news it was assumed
    that the murderer was a Muslim, then when it was discovered that it was a white man he instantly became mentally disturbed.

  310. Abbott is having a anti carbon tax rally on that day, instead of tomorrow.

    This man wants to be PM.

  314. And now it’s Penny Wong’s turn. Xenophon not supporting the tax because Gillard promised before the election that there would be no carbon tax and mention of impact on business – the usual ramble from Abetz.

  315. Even Sky is calling Abbott out..the fact that Tony Abbott said that he would fight this tax ‘to the death’ but now chooses to be out of the country when the final vote is taken.

  317. The Carbon Tax legislation has now been passed, well done Prime Minister Gillard, the government, the independents and the Greens. Cheers all round.

  320. I agree with this writer. The Opposition are bad losers. They do not know when to shutup.

    “…………Eric Abetz led a desperate charge to suspend standing orders after debate ended, arguing that there hadn’t been sufficient time to examine the legislation properly.

    Of course, he carefully didn’t mention that of the nearly 30 hours allotted for debate, almost all the Opposition’s speeches boiled down to nothing more than, ‘Gillard lied to us and we should have an election’. Virtually no substantive debate whatsoever.

    When that failed, votes on the last amendments were held up by Opposition Senators leaving the Chamber to force longer-lasting divisions. And what did they gain from that? Around 12 minutes in total.

    In the end, though, the vote was called. Even during the vote, there were objections. Could the Opposition hear the question again? Why were they being asked to vote on a whole group of bills at once? (Never mind that this was agreed upon when the bills first came before the Senate.) They did everything but sneak out and set off the fire alarm – and I’m not sure it didn’t cross their minds.

    The vote was decisive – 36-32. And a packed Senate gallery erupted with cheers and applause.

    So that’s it. End of story, right?

    Foolish optimists.

    Within seconds, Abetz was on his feet again wanting a suspension of standing orders. The reason? He wanted to have a chance to condemn Labor politicians for their ‘betrayal’ of the Australian people. By name. At length. It was all about the ‘will of the people’. Why couldn’t Labor just accept it?

    Accept what, exactly? The result of the 2010 election, when we voted in such a way as to bring about a minority government? The dozens and dozens of polls showing popular support for pricing carbon dioxide emissions? Oh, of course not. The ‘will of the people’ is what Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says it is, apparently..

    Gracious in defeat on carbon pricing? Hardly.

  321. “The Carbon Tax legislation has now been passed, well done Prime ”

    Passed on a show of hands. They even did not bother with a division.

  326. The vote was suppose to be tomorrow, but listening to the standard of debate from the Coalition, I can see why the government decided not to waste anymore time.

    Debate in senate now discussing the PM and the failure “she” is. The PM fails in all matters. The PM is gutless and has no character. You would thing they would give it a rest. she she she

    Mr. Abbott could have flown out tomorrow and arrive on time.

    Talk about a whinge in the senate. I will listen to the next speaker and do something more worthwhile to fill in my time.

    If the PM is such a failure and is so incompetent, what does that make the Coalition that can’t lay a finger on her. Today, a further 19 bills have been added to 120 that have been passed in her time.

  327. Cu,
    it’s noticeable that no Coalition MP ever refers to the PM as “Prime Minister Gillard”.
    Until they do I’ll continue with surnames only for their mob !

    Erica was in full flight earlier and I heard Arnie a while ago…not one worthwhile contribution between all of them.

  328. Will he”?

    “….The programme starts with a three-year fixed price phase beginning at A$23 per tonne in July before switching to emissions trading in mid-2015, with the aim to link to carbon markets overseas.

    Abbott’s attempts to sow more political uncertainty in the coming months could well backfire.

    “It’s hard to see business would be prepared to put up with another 5-year period of significant uncertainty, almost no matter what their persuasion,” said Lane Crockett, general manager, Australia, for Pacific Hydro, a large wind farm and hydro power developer.

    For Australia’s rapidly growing LNG sector, which fought the scheme saying cleaner gas shouldn’t be taxed, it was time to move on.

    “I’m not sure that anyone would waste too much time trying to change people’s minds on something that’s already gone through the House of Representatives (parliament’s lower house) … (it’s) not a live issue,” said Michael Bradley of the Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association…

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/news/analysis-blood-oath-co2-laws-haunt-australias?utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Climateund

    I say no. He will not be around long enough to do anything?

  329. CU & Pip re “Cu, it’s noticeable that no Coalition MP ever refers to the PM as “Prime Minister Gillard”.

    I think that in addition it might be because the word “she” sort’a gets caught in their throats 🙄

  330. Cu, I think Abbott has upset many in his own nest and the musical chairs have been dusted off ready for the games to begin 😀

    Min, it’s true, the venom in the use of ‘she’ is obvious……but noooo, they’re not misogynistic or chauvinistic about having a female PM, oh nooo.

  331. What I find disturbing, is the depth and strenght of the hate they have for her.

    Today in the senate, one after another attacked the PM personally and the Greens as a party,

    The hatred is real.

    Don’t they realise that the Greens represent some 12% of the population. Labor to represent a great many to. Why do they think they have the right to undermine the choices these people make.

    The present government was elected by more than 50%.

    Just some facts that many ignore to keep their misguided beliefs.

    The Coalition represent fewer than 50%. Why are they more important than those who disagree with them.

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