Budget of the damned

Background:  Herald Sun, Frankston Hospital December '13

Background: Herald Sun, Frankston Hospital December ’13

My impression in the lead-up to Hockey’s budget was that we would be damned if we did, and damned if we didn’t.  Damned if we were ill or disabled, damned if we were unemployed, and most definitely damned should we ever have the temerity to become ‘a burden on society’, and get old.

And it seems that for none else, other than the Gina types of our society, that this has been confirmed.

There is not much point in once again noting that Abbott promised no surprises, no new taxes, no increased taxes, no cuts to education, no cuts to health.  I would suspect that for the vast majority of us, that given Abbott’s political record that the surprise would have been if he had kept his word.  Making promises is nothing but ‘clever politics’, and anyway you cannot believe anything said in the heat of a debate – nor at any other time, it seems.  Tony Abbott promised to restore trust in government, then quickly discarded the notion.

As written by Robert Simms for The Drum:

Tony Abbott is a pathological liar who has lost the respect of the Australian people. He leads a beleaguered government, held ransom by extremists in the Senate. His government is illegitimate. He must resign and end our collective misery!

Simms was noting the irony of the hate campaign run incessantly by Abbott during his term as leader of the opposition.  Surely it is now time for Abbott and barrackers to apply the same standards to themselves.  But of course not.

Just prior to the election, the Herald Sun and without exception, all of the Murdoch stable gushed effusive praise.  Ding, dong, the witch is dead, and the wordy nerd come power-tripper gone with her.  All Hail the prince!

TONY Abbott stands ready today to become Australia’s new prime minister with a set of economic and social policies to take the nation into a safe and assured future.

He has not wavered from the task of building a disciplined and cohesive Coalition team . . . In doing so he has proved himself a conviction politician . . . He has proved himself a man of principle.

Labor has lost its way as well as its heart. It has chosen to stoke class war to gain political advantage.

Not only is this un-Australian, it is also a betrayal of modern Labor.

The Herald Sun believes Mr Abbott should be given the opportunity tomorrow to restore Australia for Australians.

I hope that the writer of the above editorial is now equally as damning of the obvious the ‘class war’, the restructure of our society with the well off being deprived of a small slice of their massive pie while the poor will be grubbing around in the gutter.

But now, and even before Hockey’s horror budget saw the light of day, (again from Simms):

This growing sense of hypocrisy is reinforced by the contradictory political persona the Prime Minister has crafted for himself. Indeed, six months after his election, many voters would struggle to articulate precisely what he stands for.

We have a budget emergency, yet the Government can still find billions of dollars for fighter jets. Abbott supported Gonski and the NDIS before the election, yet was eager to dump them after. He promised no new taxes, yet wants to charge for visits to the doctor. Even his Paid Parental Leave Scheme has been watered down, suggesting that if it was Abbott’s signature policy, his autograph was forged.

From Ross Gittins:

If you thought a man who could promise ”no surprises, no excuses” was a man who could be trusted to keep his word, more fool you.

Any experienced voter who didn’t foresee that changing the government would mean this year’s budget was a stinker, isn’t paying enough attention.

Here are but one example of the ideological agenda being presented to us, and for no one’s delectation except those whose beliefs run to right-wing extremism.  As someone tweeted:  Welcome to the United States of Australia.

April 2014 – “. . .the government moves to dismantle Labor’s GP super-clinic program by trying to claw back money from centres that are yet to be built.  GP super-clinics with longer opening hours, more staff and broad medical services were a major plank of Labor’s health policy in government, with $650 million earmarked for 60 clinics.  Funding has been suspended to three clinics which are yet to be built – in Darwin, Rockingham in Western Australia and Brisbane”.

December 2013 – “NSW will miss out on more than $150 million in funding for vital health services that has been cut by the federal government.  This is bad news for public hospital patients. People living in western Sydney will be hardest hit by the cuts, with Westmead Hospital losing $100 million over three years. The Children’s Medical Research Institute and the Westmead Millennium Institute will also lose tens of millions of dollars . . .”.

And now in addition to this and a whole lot more which is likely to have passed under the radar, there is:

Billions of dollars will be slashed from already-strained public hospital budgets under plans that could lead to huge increases in waiting times for surgery and emergency treatment.

The Commonwealth will for the first time allow the states to charge patients for public hospital treatment, partly to deter people from circumventing a $7 fee for GP visits by going to the emergency department, despite strong opposition from doctors who say hospitals are not placed to deal with the administrative burden.

This seems to an ongoing theme of the Abbott/Credlin/Hockey government, that all should be government via ‘deterrence’.  The excuse for imposing a $7 fee has been that this will act as a deterrence:  “. . . imposing more user charges in health in order to deter overuse”.  But surely it is the medical practitioner’s role to decide on the level of care required by each patient, and not the role of governments to decide what is and what is not ‘overuse’.

The previously-mooted $7 fee will apply to GP visits, diagnostic imaging such as X-rays and pathology services such as blood tests. Concessional patients and children under 16 years will pay the fee only for the first 10 services they use each calendar year. The government will cut its contribution to the cost of those services by the same amount, saving it $3.5 billion over five years. Part of the new fee will go towards a new $20 billion medical research fund.

Presumably, which will also act as ‘a deterrence’ to those individuals who go groveling at their GP’s feet, begging for ‘unnecessary’ items (which therefore might be ‘overused’), such as X-rays and blood tests.

Doctors have discretion to choose who pays the fee, but there is a catch.

If GPs choose not to charge a patient, they won’t receive their $6.20 bulk billing consultation payment from the government.

Anyone for blackmail?

Patients will also pay more for prescription medications, with the general patient contribution rising next year by $5, while the contribution by concessional patients will rise by 80¢.

This may not seem like much, but here is a true indication of how means and just plain nasty this government is: “. . .the cost of the diabetes drug insulin will rise from $37.70 to $42.70.  But if you’re a concession card holder, you’re in luck. Instead of the $5, card holders will pay an extra cost of just $0.80.

For instance, if you are a concession card holder and you need to buy Dabrafenib, a treatment for malignant skin cancers, you would pay $6.90 instead of the previous price $6.10″.

That’s right.  If you are a pensioner with cancer, this government is going to extract 80 cents out of you.  Mean, petty and just plain nasty.

Consumers Health Forum chief executive Adam Stankevicius said the budget spelled the end of universal access to primary care under Medicare.

“It’s very bad news for consumers, particularly the elderly and those with chronic disease.”

The president of the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine, Anthony Cross, said the introduction of the fee would lead to more people seeking treatment in emergency departments for problems more appropriately treated by GPs, and it would be ”almost impossible” for hospitals to decide which patients  should be charged for treatment.

Just a question, and this is again from news.com:

New rules mean you’re going to have to wait six months if you want to receive Newstart or Youth Allowance and you’ve just left school or are a new jobseeker.

After that six month period, the government will provide you with six months’ worth of income support — although you’ll have to participate in Work for the Dole at 25 hours a week.

If you’re still unemployed after the first 12 months, the government will not support you for the next six months — except in the form of wage subsidies to employers as an incentive to hire you.

The tedious cycle of six months on, six months off continues.

How are people meant to survive if they are unemployed and will not receive any form of assistance for six months?  Beg on the streets?  In typical Abbott/Hockey style the practicalities of things such as survival seem to escape them in their zeal to enforce this thing now known as ‘a deterrence’.

414 comments on “Budget of the damned

  1. Channel 7 has news scouts in different states canvassing the public for their reaction about the budget, the Qld scout schoosed a walking track area of the upper class, so they were more in favour of the budget, why didn’t she schoose Brisbane railway station to get a more accurate response, which is bloody typical of the Australia media, they see no wrong in Conservative politicians.

  2. Did anyone else notice this small item..that the government is going to sell the Royal Mint..

    The passing of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act empowered the Government to make laws with respect to currency, coinage and legal tender. The Coinage Act 1909 put in place the first steps for an Australian coinage. Thus began the journey towards a mint owned by the Commonwealth and independence from the branches of the Royal Mint.

    So who is it who is going to buy the right to issue Australia’s currency?

  3. I’m waiting for the protest marches to start. I’ll be there in the front line every time. Hope the Labor Party does to Abbott what he did to JG. There is no shame or compassion in this Tory government.

  4. Nothing more shows how bad this budget is than a piece I saw this morning where dozens of lobbyists were lined to receive the budget. Many were then interviewed after looking at it.

    To a tee, all those that represented the less well off, pensioners and ordinary Australians were scathing without exception.

    To a tee all those that represented big business were effusive in their praise of it without exception.

    What Hockey has done has shifted large swaths of money from the bottom to the top, a reverse Robin Hood, and that isn’t being highlighted.

    For instance his vaunted massive infrastructure spend is the overwhelming benefit of mining companies, especially coal and iron ore, who have been begging for government to build roads, rail and ports to fast track the shipping of their raw materials. To get that infrastructure the States have to sell off all their assets, every single one, including those that bring in revenue. And ordinary Australians who will use it, that is the roads, will pay expensive tolls whilst business gets the rest for nothing.

    Another example is his self vaunted future fund for biotech research. The large biotech companies and pharmaceuticals must be over the moon. At the cost of slashing our health system, more or less destroying it for ordinary Australians, they are going to get billions into perpetuity whilst they will gauge huge markups at the other end for the stuff they produce paid for by the Australian taxpayer they are gauging.

    And this is early days for this budget, more details will be released and there will be much that will be hidden. For example Hockey’s deficit reduction figures are pie in the sky nonsense but so far the media are not highlighting the glaring flaws in those projections.

    Probably one of the worst budgets bought down in the modern era and one based purely on an ideology, which was mentioned this morning, rather than any sound economics.

  5. If politicians claim that they are all about the people and not about themselves, why don’t they model our society, our taxes and our business costs on Norway and not the USA. It smacks of greed and wealth for the few. I know which country and its economy is designed for ALL of its citizens and not just the top 1 %.

    The ALP needs to grow some balls now !!! and attack every single day about the lies and broken promises. Reject all new taxes and all changes on the basis they are all lies and broken promises. Issue pamphlets with quotes and what has really happened. Get off on the right foot and run and hold ground just like Tony did as opposition leader.

  6. TREASURER Joe Hockey has described his first federal budget as a “contribute and build budget” that will create tens of thousands of jobs through major road building projects.

    Come on ladies, man your shovels! 🙄

    However, the sly bit as always lies in the fine print. In order for Abbott to become the promised Infrastructure Prime Minister, it requires holding the states to ransom, that is, if the states do not sell off public assets then they do not receive federal $s.

    Mr Hockey announced he had won the “in-principle support” of his state and territory colleagues for a new “asset recycling” initiative, which would see existing state-owned infrastructure assets sold off to invest in significant new major works.

    The proposal would see the federal government establish a new pool of funds which would be used to give the states and territories incentive payments of 15 per cent of the value of the government-owned asset they are proposing to sell.

    But the top-up payments would only be provided if the state government uses the money to reinvest in new infrastructure projects that would have the impact of boosting productivity.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/joe-hockey-states-agree-on-asset-recycling/story-e6frgczx-1226867265944

  7. From the ABC:

    The Government has also abolished the Pensioner Education Supplement, for a saving of $281 million, and will not proceed with the planned pilot of Supporting Senior Australians: Housing Help For Seniors, a $173 million program that was to encourage older Australians to downsize to smaller dwellings.

    This is bearing in mind that the Pensioner Education Supplement currently also applies to not only the elderly but to people with disabilities and their carers.

    Hockey’s crackdown on the disabled is reasoned as: ….the focus on those who can work to any capacity being reintegrated into the workforce. So while the focus will be making people with disabilities work (in any capacity), the government is also stopping training schemes and their education supplement. I dread to think what the term ‘in any capacity’ might mean – young Downs Syndrome people sent onto the roads? A blind woman washing dishes? It happens in the great US of A, so why not here…

  8. We NEED a REVOLUTION – The time for talking is over. I am sick to my stomach at the depths to which this government has descended. I’d always understood that the purpose of a government – at least in a democracy – was to act as care-takers of the nation and its resources and assets such that all citizens were treated equitably and those resources and assets were used to benefit all whilst also having their integrity preserved for future generations. – Boy, do I feel naive.

    If this government is doing what it should then I’ve been misguided for years and I’m certainly not living in a democracy any longer. The sheer gall of Hockey is beyond belief – how can he keep a straight face and accuse those who criticise his budget as being selfish and those who praise it as builders of a better Austrlia? Since when was “better” synonymous with putting thousands out of work; beginning the dismantling of a good healthcare system; blaming and penalising the poor, the disadvantaged, the disabled, the aged, and ordinary working class Australians; returning education to a state of privilege for the rich, rather than a right for all; ignoring the poverty, sickness, disease and general plight of those in the developing world; incarcerating people fleeing persecution and/or terrror and/or impoverished living conditions; selling off state assets even to the extent of selling the Mint; AND AT THE SAME TIME subsidising mining companies, destruction of the environment, big business and the wealthy end of town?

    We NEED a REVOLUTION – This agenda smacks of the flavour of military dictatorships; one party states; and malevolent and self-serving despots. This country was built largely by unjustly treated poor shipped from the other side of the world and imprisoned here or by refugees and immigrants fleeing untenable circumstances at home from simply bad to life threatening persecution.

    How the fuck have we come to this with a background and history like that?

    It’s not really a rhetorical question – I can give you several thoughts on the matter and would love to hear yours but, whatever has brought us here – THIS IS NOT THE AUSTRALIA THAT WELL BALANCED, FAIR MINDED AND COMPASSIONATE PEOPLE WANT.

    WE NEED A REVOLUTION – WE NEED IT NOW!

  9. more crime, more prisoners, more prisons…. private prisons i presume… Hope i don’t hear bumps in the night as someone breaks in !

  10. It appears that there is 1.4 billion ;less for DA, Must have fell off the tree.

    The Federal Budget has detailed annual funding allocations from 2014-15 to 2017-18 for the government’s centrepiece climate change program which are $1.4 billion lower, or less than half, what the Coalition had promised before the 2013 Federal Election.

    The budget text states that the government will provide an “initial” $2.55 billion to establish the Emission Reduction Fund, which is consistent with what the Coalition had promised prior to the election over the first four years of the scheme.

    Yet the table which accompanies this text listing the hard dollars, provides a contradictory and highly confusing story. It outlines a total funding allocation over the next four years of just under $1.15 billion.

    The table below details the annual funding for the Emissions Reduction Fund as listed in the Government’s budget papers versus what was outlined by the Coalition prior to

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/5/14/carbon-markets/budget-raises-doubts-over-direct-action?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=754598&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=

    Further cuts to local councils.

  11. No further funding, that supports youths getting into employment, One scheme has supported up to 30,000 kids.

    Assistant for apprentice b buying tools disbanded. Assistance to employers, taking on apprentices gone.

  12. Hockey is very clear about one thing this morning. This government has no sympathy, for any woman who wants to stay home when the child turns six. Not all a school by that age. At least, Gilled thought seven was more fair.

    He cannot see why the government should pay, if the mother decides to stay home.

  13. Abbott says he is doing what is good for the country. What does that mean?

    It is obvious the people do not count.

    I can imagine Abbott sitting around the kitchen table, discussing the family budget. Mum says, the kids need new shoe. Abbott, cant do, will have to wear the ones I bought last year. Mum. But they are too small, and have holies in the soles. Abbott, too bad, I cannot afford. Will have to wear the ones they have. Cut out the toes, use cardboard to cover the holes.

    Abbott, I want to more onto the grocery bill. Will have to cut back. Mum we cannot, the kids will become ill. Abbott, too bad, we cannot afford to spend at this rate.

    Mum, maybe we can sell the car. Abbott. no way, I need that.

    Yes, it is about priories and agenda. Has nothing to do with the economy.

    If wants to be more enraged tune into Hockey and NPC. More lectures on how we should behave

  14. The more one digs, the worse it gets. Hockey now at NPC. Even more sickening. He does not see why the government should subsidise a mother who wants to stay at home with her six year old. That is her choice.

  15. Oh yeah, I bet those 700 odd people, with incomes over $200,000 per year, that pay ZERO TAX are absolutely quaking in their boots regarding the “Deficit Levy”. Just like I bet companies like News Corpse (which paid only $1m tax on a profit of $2 billion) is quaking in its boots regarding the 1.5% PPL Levy (which is offset by a 1.5% cut to company tax anyway).

    Fact is, this was already tried in the UK, & the result was a RECESSION & even HIGHER DEBT. Didn’t Einstein say that “Insanity is trying the same thing, over & over, & expecting a different result”?

  16. “He does not see why the government should subsidise a mother who wants to stay at home with her six year old. That is her choice.”

    Ah, but subsidising a wealthy new mum to the tune of $50,000 is completely A-OK? What a turd-monger (at the risk of insulting those in the otherwise honourable profession of turd-mongering).

  17. Should have heard all the Liberal Party State Premiers…..they’re absolutely PISSED. Most of them were conned, by Abbott, into not signing the Gonski agreement with Labor, & now he’s gutting Federal Funding to public education (whilst providing billions for private schools & school chaplains). I think Abbott & Hockey could get rolled BY THEIR OWN PARTY.

  18. Has anyone bother to listen to Hockey NPC. He was asked how a 25 year apprentice that loses his job , because the boss went broke will live to six months.

    Easy according to the genius. There are redundancy packages you know. Yes, he will get that,. He can then go to Centrelink. He will get one week off the waiting time, fro every year he has worked. Yes, and they will get him a job, or he can go back to education., NO worries, that 25 will be looked after. Wonder how much redundancy one would get at that age.

    The genius of this man knows no bounds.

    I wish that someone would take this joke of a man aside, give him a history lesson.

    Back in 1941, I believe it was, the states handed over their powers to raise income tax.

    Yes, it was agreed that the federal government would then raise income taxes on their behalf. Over the years, this has become tainted, by the emergence of tied grants. The facts still remains, they federal government still raises taxes on behalf of the state.

    Now, when it comes to the child allowance, Hockey is not taking anything away from families. They still have the their income the Option B is a supplement. It is not true, that it is removed permanently, as the kids will grow up and they no longer get it. Yes, removing a supplement, is not taking anything away from people. Yes, this is what the man says.

    Would suggest, that these so called family supplements, are a way, of keeping wages at ta lower level.

    As to all other questions re health and education, Not his responsibilities. That belongs to the state.

    Sorry., the federal government still raises money on behalf of the states. If not, time to let the states nominate their own income taxes. That, in this day and age, is not practicable.

    I feel like Alice did, when she fell down that rabbit warren. Nothing makes sense.

  19. If one has not watched NPC, catch up later. It is unbelievable what this genius is saying. I though some of the audience was going to bring up, that lunch they just had.

  20. C U ALL on the March, We have to let these Cruel stupid Lying Politicians Know that Their time will soon be UP , Any one Know A Good Lie if you need help ring Canberra Ask for Tony

  21. PRIME Minister Tony Abbott has defended Treasurer Joe Hockey after his pre-Budget dance routine almost outshone his divisive Budget.

    Doing the morning media rounds today, Mr Abbott described his deep respect for Mr Hockey and his Budget, which has “divided Australia”, according to Greens Deputy Leader Adam Bandt.

    Abbott said this morning: “He has shown so much character and resolution. This is by far the best budget since 1996. In just this one budget, what Joe Hockey has shown is that he is a worthy successor to Peter Costello, who was a great treasurer.”

    Last night’s Budget announcement may have been bad news for the elderly, disabled and pensioners, but for Mr Hockey it was the best day of his life.

    Literally.

    The Treasurer was forced to defend himself to press gallery stalwart Laurie Oakes last night after he questioned the Treasurer’s decision to dance to the tune Best Day of My Life before delivering the toughest Federal Budget in 18 years……

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/treasurer-joe-hockey-caught-dancing-to-best-day-of-my-life-before-delivering-federal-budget/story-fni0cqcu-1226916927109

  22. Never stops.

    .

    The government will pull the plug on Commercialisation Australia and the Innovation Investment Fund. Photograph: Alan Porritt/AAP

    Funding cuts in the federal budget will gut Australia’s technology startup scene and speed the flight of talented entrepreneurs, industry advocates say.

    The Coalition has announced plans to scrap eight programs from January 2015, saving a projected $845.6m over five years. On the chopping block are Commercialisation Australia, which has provided more than $200m in funding to local startups, and the Innovation Investment Fund, which connects startups with venture capital.

    In their place, the government will devote $484.2m over five years to the Entrepreneurs’ Infrastructure Program.

    Steven Baxter, the managing director of startup accelerator River City Labs, said the budget cuts would seriously dent the local startup scene…

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/14/technology-startups-to-be-gutted-by-budget-cuts-say-industry-advocates

  23. I do hope that Shorten goes back in history and turns up with an alternate budget tomorrow. Is needed at his time.

  24. Pensions are not cut. What about the supplement for starters. So, not keeping the same values, because of new indexation not a cut. Sorry, Mr Abbott, you are wrong.

    Speaker Bishop is back to normal today. Once again taking her orders from Pyne and abusing the Opposition. Yesterday’s food behaviour , sadly has not lasted.

  25. Tanya asks Abbott how he justifies taking up to $5000 off the average family., Simple, the Opposition will fix things by letting the carbon tax go. Yes, he said, will give these families $550. Even to get that much, one would have to believe power bills will come down.

  26. They were getting that $550 dollars anyway in compensation, and in the case of low income earners more compensation than they were paying out in increased prices because of the carbon price.

    The amount of lying and spin going on by the Liberals over their budget is astounding, but that’s no surprise to us. Also of no surprise is the absent of right wingers to highlight all the broken promises and lies.

  27. Palmer just said it is hard to give a stay at home mother of four nothing, while working mothers of one get assistance, Also suggested, time for Tony to call that election.,

  28. When it comes to HIP., why is no one seeing the elephant in the room. Yes, that of the UNNECESSARY unsafe roof cavities across out nation. Something that should be easily fixed.

    Installation stills continues. Many others., including those who fix solar panels on our roofs, enter these cavities.

    Put the hand up, of people out there as children, also explored these areas.

    If the electricity was up to a reasonable standard, there would not have been one death.

    How many more deaths will there be, before this issue is addressed.

    Garrett still in the stand.

  29. Do people still think this way about their car. Abbott is also said, that most people are only interested in travelling in their own car.

    My observation of many young people, when it comes to that first car, is one of necessity , not something they fall in love with. Many would rather not bother.

    ………Abbott is convinced of the voter, as well as economic, appeal of road funding. He wrote in his book, Battlelines, that even the “humblest person is king in his own car”.

    Some folk may indeed feel that way. But they could well value the things they’ll be losing on Tuesday much more………

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/09/tony-abbotts-grand-infrastructure-plan-may-be-an-expensive-road-to-nowhere

  30. The ALP government insulation scheme was not poorly implemented at all. Trade skills licensing is in the hands of the States. All employers are supposed to have a duty of care and provide a safe working environment in accordance with government legislation and appropriate Standards.

    Why would a Minister running a program such as that be expected to check the credentials of every tradesman contracted to do the job? The fact is that the issue of rogue and untrained installers is one for the State governments and employers who didn’t carry out their duty of care responsibilities. It is they that should be questioned.

    In any case, and meaning no disrespect to those who died or their families, the whole thing is a Furphy because electricians, roofers , solar installers and home handymen and women are working in roof cavities all the time. There have been several deaths in relation to installation of wiring and none has caused this type of furore. There will continue to be so because it is still legal for you to buy batts and install them yourself and because whenever government subsidies are available there will be the shifty who move in to make a quick buck. Unless human nature changes drastically, that will not. Indeed, the sorts of measures introduced and pursued by Abbott’s government and Hockey’s budget will only push more people to cut corners, try and do cash deals, and employ unskilled people.

    This enquiry is nothing more than a witch hunt and has false assumptions underpinning it.

  31. The road funding, such as it is, has nothing to do with ordinary drivers, young or old. It is simply more infastructure largely to benefit the miners who manage under this government not to pay tax and even receive subsidies, whilst the average citizen is expected to fund the facilities those large companies use.

    As for young people and cars … The majority of young people I know – with the exception of a few petrol heads – can neither afford nor particularly want the hassle of cars and parking and registration and road rules and police on every corner waiting to penalise them on trumped up or silly charges that have little to do with road safety and everything to do with either victimisation or raising revenue. Even their tv safety campaigns are blatantly stupid. Their latest shows only what everyone knows; that the faster you go, the longer it will take to stop – in that particular vehicle.
    Not only is that true at any speed and therefore an accident can happen *when not enough distance is left between yourself and the car in front* but it takes no account of driver reaction times, eyesight, composure, skills, energy level or indeed the many differences in the vehicles on the road. Do they honestly expect me to believe that Mark Webber in a Ferrari cannot travel safely at a greater speed than the average worker in a second-hand holden ute? It’s bullshit.

    The main cause of road crashes is not speed – it is inappropriate speed for the level of driver ability, state of consciousness, reaction time, road conditions, car being driven and its condition. Celebrity races at the grand prix are a clear enough illustration of that.

  32. The principal of Cabinet confidentiality is now being argue. It appears that Rudd otr no one else can agree to it being released. Most of Rudd’s evidence would have occurred within cabinet.\\Commissioner has just said terms of reference are very wide.

  33. Privilege exists and cannot be waivered. This will also have a effect on the Gillard RC. I suspect, is now a matter for the courts.

  34. Yes, there is a blow up, but does not appear to have Rudd in it’s sight. More likely, this government. They drew up the terms of reference. This argument could have been on day one.

    I believe Abbott might being wedged fully.

  35. This budget is built on the premise that those on the dole do not want to work. If health is free, the poor will abuse the privilege.

    NO evidence for either prejudiced.

  36. As Abbott said while in the seminary, if those priests were really sick they should be in hospital. He was knot going to wait on them hand and foot. I wonder why he was asked to leave. He wrote this yarn for the Bulletin after leaving the priesthood.

    Why are those with money and power, so paranoid,, believing all are out to rip them off, to get at them.

    Is what we are seeing from this government class war,. I believe so.,

  37. First post budget poll, this one from Roy Morgan of both consumers and businesses.

    Huge majorities of Australian Consumers (88%) and Businesses (74%) not happy with Joe Hockey’s first Federal Budget.

  38. He has taken nothing off the pensioner. I seem to recall, this came in long before the so called carbon tax compensation. Well according to Abbott, removing a supplement is not taking money off you. Said that about the family Option B supplement. They still have their income.

    Eligibility for Pension Supplement

    You will get the supplement automatically if you are receiving:
    •Age Pension
    •Bereavement Allowance
    •Carer Payment
    •Disability Support Pension (except if you are aged under 21 and have no children)
    •Widow B Pension
    •Wife Pension

    The Pension Supplement is also automatically paid to people over Age Pension age who are receiving:
    •Austudy
    •Parenting Payment (single and partnered)
    •Partner Allowance
    •Special Benefit
    •Widow Allowance

    Payment rates of Pension Supplement

    Payment rates are updated on 20 March and 20 September each year.

    Certain other payments are rolled into the Pension Supplement:
    •Pharmaceutical Allowance
    •Utilities Allowance
    •GST Supplement
    •Telephone Allowance equivalent to the higher rate for internet subscribers

    These payments are no longer paid separately to Pension Supplement recipients, but their value is maintained in the supplement.

    Maximum payment rates of Pension Supplement

    Family situation

    Payment rate per fortnight

    Single $62.90
    Couple $47.40 each or $94.80 combined
    Couple separated due to ill health $62.90 each

    The Pension Supplement is separate and in addition to any increase in the pension rate.
    ..

    http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/pension-supplement

    Was originally payed twice a year,

  39. Many of the easiest ways to reduce budget spending by means testing upper-class welfare or reducing tax breaks for the wealthy on superannuation, capital gains and negative gearing are conspicuously absent from the budget.

    But no of course not. The above does not fit in with far right wing mentality. To these Ayn Rand-ers, it is the wealthy who deserve to be rewarded, not for any particular reason such as the very much debunked trickle down effect, but just because the wealthy are (of course) persons ‘of calibre’. On the other hand, ‘the others’ such as the disabled and elderly should just levitate themselves off their backsides.

    It’s very much a ‘hey look at moi’ attitude – I’m wealthy and by definition ‘deserving’, therefore you who are not, you don’t deserve nothing.

    The very old saying of ‘you get what you deserve’, and by god, I hope that Abbott and Hockey get theirs.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-editorial/budget-joe-hockey-asks-too-much-too-soon-and-puts-credibility-at-risk-20140513-388d7.html#ixzz31j2ZwbLN

  40. Well, we were warned! Remember Joe’s speech in London in April, 2012, about

    The End of the Age of Entitlement!

    Joe Hockey first travelled to London,
    To make his declaration
    That it was time to turn the page,
    And bring to an end the age
    Of what he called Entitlement.

    You may well ask why didn’t he
    Announce it in North Sydney
    That we’re citizens of Asia,
    Neighbours of Malaysia
    And the Indian subcontinent.

    There, he said, they are satisfied
    With what their families provide
    To support them when they’re old.
    Now Oz could save amounts untold,
    With something the equivalent.

    When asked to whom the scheme applied
    He hesitated and then replied,
    “Oh, we’d have to have a means test
    Which would eliminate the rest…….
    ……Of us who prove ourselves non-indigent.”

  41. It’s great to see you writing some of your pomes again Patricia. 🙂 The other day on TPS, and now here – wonderful! Getting your mojo back?

  42. Not taking up top $5000 off average families either, I suppose. Something else we must have dreamt.

  43. Combet now on. Worth watching. Give Abbott and his best mater, NSW premier a miss,
    http://rcommedia.com.au/hiprc/live/

    Combet condemning the private industry. Was full of rorts. His biggest tasks when he took over, was indentifying them., Yews, even at that late date, they were still trying toi rort the government.

    Yes, we have Abbott doing away with all business regulations. He went as far this week, on cutting back money to the organisation that overseers the regulations that will survive his cutting shears.

    Have the sound off on Abbott. The facial contortions are indeed ??queer. ABC 24. Could the timing be, to divert the media from Combet’s appearance. This inquiry is not going well for Abbott.

  44. Must admit, the Budget reply was a pearler, didn’t back away from Labors legacy, and called them out for all their lies. Well done Shorten.

    I noticed just then on the ABC site they mentioned only one winner, Medical research, although it is funded by people who make use of bulk billing Drs, therefore slanted towards the poorer. This was in the fine print though.

    Despite this massive increase in medical research, funding for other research organisations including the CSIRO (down by $114.4 million over four years) will be reduced by $146.8 million over four years.

    Not really a winner then, except in the fact that it isn’t being terminated along with the rest of the CSIRO, just rebadged, and funded now by those lest well off

    There really aren’t enough expletives to fully convey my feelings towards these creeps.

    http://www.csiro.au/en/Portals/Media/Flu-breakthrough—New-drug-developed-to-combat-flu-pandemic.aspx

  45. This ‘for the 1%er’s’ budget has shown the absolute self interest of the MSM/IPA/LNP with environmental projects are being scrapped or diminished. So much for Smokin’ Joe’s words saying this budget being for the good of our future generations; this just rings hollow and untrue. We all know money is important, but it seems $’s will come ahead of people and the environment. These short-sighted ego-maniacs have cut Landcare funding and shifted those monies into it’s ridiculous Green Army Slavery Unit 🙄 I, as an Landcare member, dispair at the cost to our environment(s) and to retension of volunteers. This has to be the worst government with the worst PM in all history.

  46. I missed the budget reply. Damn.

    Damn, damn damn.

    But I watched the football. Bad result.

    Damn.

  47. Mr Hockey and others keep saying, this budget is for our kids.,

    Know something, I am nit too happy about the act that this budget is hitting my kids, grandkids and great grand Kids hard. Yes, they are here today.

    Does one have concerns with a fund named as medical research., Would not the title, health research be more useful.,

    Medical to me, puts in lights, pharmaceutical companies, Health covers much wider research, not just more magic pills. Could begin with how Medicare compares with all other systems.

  48. You people don’t understand that this budget’s a part of Abbott’s signature Stopping the Boats policy. The idea being, of course, to fuck over the joint so badly that no one will want to come here. It’s all forward thinking.

  49. Fu, *SNAP*, My very first thoughts on the ‘ medical research future fund’ were PBS rip-off fund or more correctly PCBS…. Pharmaceutical Companies Benefit Scheme. 😦
    The blatancy of this pathetic excuse for an govt. makes my skin crawl……. to think that these… these….. [expletive here]… are Australians like me 😮 ..isn’t that beyond the pale. 😡
    Their hare-brained scheme is just graft and corruption; pure and simple!
    Just like their inDirect noAction she’saScheme 🙄 it has nothing to do with the environment or Climate Change and ALL to do with fairy floss and photo-op’s…….. as Mo says ” The worst government in Australian history” ….. tru dat 😉

  50. are Australians like me

    They might be australian LOVO, but they aint nothing like you. Similar to scurvy rats I’m thinking. The depravity and duplicity of this budget grows as more details come to light.

    Doctors will be financially penalised $11 for bulk-billing concession card holders and children under the government’s proposed changes to Medicare.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/16/bulk-billing-poorer-patients-cost-doctors-warn

    Put simply, it is a medicare killer. No changes to Medicare was just one broken promise. They’re racking them up

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/federal-budget/then-and-now-the-abbott-governments-broken-promises-20140514-zrcfr.html

  51. This government is transferring government debt to the private citizen.

    What is worse, it is transferring all the cost, of providing a trained, skilled and educated workforce to our young people. Industry and government are abandoning their responsibilities in this regard.

    Our kids are expect to place themselves in great debt, to develop the skills that are necessary to enter the workforce.

    Is this fair. Does it make economical sense.

    This government, when it comes to the so called roads infrastructure, is not giving the states grants but loans.

    It is removing all regulations, and oversight of those left.

    If one thing is clear, with the Installation RC, it is clear, that business cannot be trusted.

    Combet, and Garrett were very clear in what they said. t. Yes, the scheme should not have occurred. NOT because it was not a good idea, but because there was no way the government could have prevented the operators from rorting the system, workers, home owners or government.,

    Combet was shocked to find the rorting still occurring, after he took over the reins. Yes, after the deaths. What’s more, he was talking about a great number of shoddy and crooked operators, including a big name or two.

    The reporting of what has been said by nearly all p[layers in this RC has not been honestly reported. Still, after watching for hours, I believe the Commissioner may hand down a honest report.

    PS. Not only transferring the cost and responsibility for providing a skilled and competent workforce to our young, they are making money out of them, on the way through.

    The young today, are expected by this government to go into great debt, so they can have access to a job.

    Government or industry, do not seem to believe they have a role to play.

  52. This also upset Pyne today.

    Oscar-winning actress Cate Blanchett has hit out at multi-million-dollar budget cuts to Australia’s television and film funding body, describing them as “short-sighted”.

    The Federal Government unveiled a tough budget this week that saw huge cuts to health and education spending, as well as slashed spending for arts and cultural activities, including Screen Australia.

    Speaking at the Cannes Film Festival, Blanchett said culture was “a huge economic driver at home, and I think it’s very short-sighted”.

    “It’s not only a potent industry that feeds Australia at home. Culture generally for any nation is a piece of soft diplomacy, it’s a way that we understand the way the mindset of a country works.”

    The Australia Council will lose more than $10 million out of its $222 million annual budget this year and $6.4 million for the following three years resulting in a cut just shy of $30 million.

    Screen Australia will lose $38 million over the next four years, which is likely to force it to support fewer films and television dramas..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-17/cate-blanchett-slams-budget-cuts/5459416

  53. Seems like an extra long time since we last had an opinion poll.

    The pollstrs wouldn’t be giving Abbott some breathing space. No, of course they wouldn’t.

  54. The pollstrs wouldn’t be giving Abbott some breathing space

    Perhaps they have given directives to keep calling until they find at least one person still willing to vote liberal cuppa? 🙂

  55. One wonders how one must be a feel’n if’n one were an MSM/IPA/LNP backbencher at the moment… 😉 😉 *nudge* etc
    ..or even an aspirational MSM/IPA/LNP pre-selectorium gunnabeistium paperbagiimesum 😮
    ….. my only advice would be to seek an less embarrassing path; though you may, actually, have to ‘do’ something…. as in ‘earn’, mm!!!! ( and I know it’s an novel concept… but, hey, us “lefties” do it all the time) …. no really 😀
    …anyhoo here’s the ‘helpful’ link for all you soon to be MSM/IPA/LNP ex-backbenchers and MSM/IPA/LNP “never-was-ers” ➡ https://au.linkedin.com/
    … one wonders if’n the rear-seat-warmers whom WON’T be re-erected, DO have an inkling of the term…..”one term tony”
    ,… though, he’s gotta get THERE first 😆 😆

  56. They claim we have unsustainable levels of debt, but the savings in health and education announced in the budget have not been used to pay down debt.

    Instead, these new savings have been used to plug the billion-dollar holes left by the abolition of the mining tax, the carbon tax and the removal of measures to stop multinational profit shifting and a whole bunch of other kickbacks to the top end of town. They’ve also used these savings to fund new coalition election commitments.

    As a result, deficits are broadly the same as they were in the pre-election fiscal statement when we left office. And, stunningly, net debt has not gone down – it has gone up from 12.5 per cent in September last year to 14 per cent in 2017-18. While our level of net debt is very low at 14 per cent, it’s higher than we’ve experienced in any year since 1997-98.

    http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/topic/politics/2014/05/17/the-ideology-driving-the-abbott-governments-first-budget/1400248800#.U3fWLHbpASR

    Let’s see the “commentators” highlight this shall we? It is the only thing I saw Shorten fail to highlight in his budget reply speech. They need to hammer it home. Mining Tax, or this Budget!

    ”one term tony”

    It has a certain ring to it, doesn’t it LOVO 😉

  57. Joe Hockey on Sunrise repeating lie after lie and skirting around every pertinent question asked of him.

    Then in the end had the gall to say his budget was an honest document and you will not find a more honest document anywhere.

  58. Am i paranoid or do others here also think that this government is not only being controlled by big business, but also OPUS DEI, a branch of the catholic church who main aim is to not only control the minds of its sheep like followers but also total worldwide financial dominance. Eg, making the rich even richer, but also total financial dominance over the rest of us… this it appears to me is abbott and his corrupt governments agenda. A cult ruling a government.

  59. Maybe Hockey is talking to the wrong people.

    Taxpayers have covered the costs for a lavish $50,000 dinner hosted by Joe Hockey during the G20 conference in Washington.

    Leading G20 an enormous workload: Hockey
    MasterChef contestant flames out after ‘suicidal’ gamble
    Cuts, but Hockey also plans roads and jobs

    Let them eat cake? Leave a comment below

    The Treasurer played host to world ­financial leaders during the April 10 celebration and even engaged the services of celebrity chef Shane Delia – who was flown out for the occasion.

    Hockey is currently under fire after on Tuesday delivering a tough budget featuring wide-ranging cuts to family payments as well as increases to the retirement age and medical costs.

    The $50,000 dinner was attended by around 60 financial ministers and central bank governors and featured barramundi, Victorian Wagyu beef, a “eucalyptus ice” dressed with Tasmanian leatherwood honey and WA truffles airlifted to Washington specially for the occasion.

    A spokesman for Mr Hockey told News Corp the dinner represented “excellent value for money’’….

    Read more at http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/05/18/08/27/joe-hockey-under-fire-over-lavish-dinner#PBO1Ef0WyzL4hKFc.99

  60. Was the lies, the premier reckon Abbott made this morning, in the heat of the moment. Maybe he just does not know what is in the budget,, and how the budget works.

    I suspect, a combination of the two.

  61. It is still had to work out how hard pensioners have been hit, the cost is still evolving, The sting in the tail might be found in the cuts made to the states. Low cost housing and aged care has been particularly hurt there.

    What have been hit hard is families on lower to middle incomes. Very hard.
    What the premiers had to say today, should be headlines news everywhere, It showed the government up as liars, or worse still, no idea of what they are doing,

    Watching senate hearings I have the feeling from the PS witness, that they are not being consulted of have little idea of what this government is doing, I believe this budget reflects this.

    Life just got a little squeezier for people in middle age. Already wedged between the demands of paid work, dependent children and ageing parents, changes forecast by this week’s federal budget have forced them firmly into the ”heavy lifting” corner.

    With educational expenses set to increase, the kids are likely to stay in the family home longer. At the same time, support for their elderly parents has been whittled down. They’ll be paying more to see a doctor and more to fill up the car while their family tax benefits diminish. Oh, and if they happen to be born after 1965, they will be working until they’re 70 before they can get the age pension.

    There is no respite for generation squeeze, with pressures simply mounting for people in their 40s and 50s, and women generally doing the heaviest lifting of all, according to Graeme Hugo, director of the Australian Population and Migration Research Centre at the University of Adelaide.

    ”The load falls disproportionately on these women who straddle the younger baby boomers and the older Gen X-ers,” he said. ”They have multiple demands on them.”

    His observation is supported by the findings from the Australian Work and Life Index, compiled by the University of South Australia’s Centre for Work + Life.

    Women aged 35 to 44 have the worst work-life balance, but those who are carers for both children and others fare worst of all…..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/families-paying-the-price-of-a-new-financial-order-20140517-38gon.html#ixzz324M18sT1

  62. Note from Latham.

    …….
    Blewitt mesmerised the courtroom with his wacky rationalisations of truth. When asked about matters that reflected poorly on his role in running the AWU Workplace Reform Association, he repeatedly said “I can’t recall” – putting dozens of memory lapses onto the public record. But when queried about Wilson and Gillard, he morphed into Albert Einstein, presenting a precise recollection of meetings and conversations.

    It was a virtuoso display of selective amnesia. I can’t think of anyone who could have played Kramer more convincingly, other than perhaps Craig Thomson.

    For most of the day, Blewitt’s testimony was as erratic as Elaine Benes’s dance moves. He could not recall, for instance, how and when he changed jobs inside the AWU, shifting from WA state secretary to work as a National Construction organiser (circa 1995). “Look, it’s a long time ago,” he lamented. “I can’t remember the exact chain of events.” Yet when it came to remembering details of a visit to Gillard’s Melbourne home, Blewitt was adamant that Gillard was at the front of the house and told him to go through to see Wilson.

    Then he flicked the switch to Kramerica, telling the commission he took $10,000 or $20,000 in AWU WRA cash into Gillard’s abode. This contradicted his signed statement to the Victorian police in November 2012, when he said the amount was $31,600 – pure slapstick genius.

    Lily-pond of life

    In effect, this self-confessed conman has the integrity of Jerry Seinfeld stealing an old lady’s rye bread. In some quarters, Blewitt’s reputation is even worse. In an interview with Channel Seven’s Mark Riley 18 months ago, his sister described him as “an imbecile”, “an idiot” and “a scumbag”. “This man is out to destroy lives,” she said, referring to an ugly incident when they were young. “I know he’s already bloody destroyed mine.”

    In the lily-pond of life, Blewitt is scum. But for the feral-right commentariat, he’s gold: someone who knew Gillard 20 years ago and is willing to make lavish, undocumented allegations against her – the politics of rent-a-quote.

    By any reasonable test, Monday was a comedy routine. Blewitt was allowed to present inconsistent, thoroughly unbelievable evidence without Judge Vandelay or his assistant calling him to account. As they say in the classics, a show about nothing. …………..

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/arts_saleroom/union_inquiry_has_little_seinfeld_BiRV3C2dpApDMRhK0pPEhN

  63. Ananda, I think that it’s all about wealth and power, who those with egos..say, the size of Joe Hockey’s, Tony Abbott’s and indeed Malcolm Turnbull’s, consider ‘deserving’ or not. It’s all about who they consider ‘expendable’, and they in their egos consider that anyone who is of no use to them (no wealth/no discernible power) can therefore be treated like dirt under the broom.

    Hockey can blather on about the age of entitlement then think nothing of hiring a celebrity chef at taxpayer’s expense. How could he think this way after giving pensioners and the disabled the biggest whack they’ve had for decades? …because he thinks that he’s *entitled to* of course..he’s rich and powerful, and therefore entitled to whatever benefits that brings with it. Egotists are always completely bereft of any form of empathy…and tact.

  64. That’s it in a noggin Carol.

    Hockey’s interview on Sunrise on the weekend was full of his ego and he saw no problems at all with gifting the wealthy and those who are his benefactors with huge swaths of public largesse whilst heartlessly and savagely ripping money out from those he deemed too entitled and unworthy.

  65. Interesting graphic on who is paying for who in this budget.

    It needs to be highlighted by Labor, which it has been in a few links above, there was no budget emergency, and, this budget doesn’t do anything for the deficit OR structural balance. It merely shifts costs from the rich to the poor.

    It’s the liberal way

  66. This budget is about whether one believes in unrestrained capitalism. As to whether pure capitalism should reign over all other considerations. Yes, whether one believes in a fair and equitable civil society, over the rule of money.

    What we are facing, is the choice of what type of society we want for our kids.

    ………..The Abbott Government is like an invading force that seeks to destroy the social fabric that binds us as a nation. The Abbott Government, through its Commission of Audit, had foreshadowed an attack on “the spirit of egalitarianism that embraces tolerance, mutual respect, and compassion for those in need.”

    The Abbott Government’s first budget is but the opening offensive to bring to realisation the stark and austere vision that pervades the Commission of Audit report.

    The detailed policy prescriptions of the Commission of Audit, and much of the government’s rhetoric regarding ending “the age of entitlement,” are designed not just to ravage the welfare state, just about an Australian invention, but in essence to dismantle the very ethos, the spirit of Australia if you will, that underlies it.

    We provide welfare for the elderly, the physically and mentally disabled, the unemployed, single parents raising our most precious commodity, which isn’t iron ore or coal, the young whom society has failed, and our native population still heart wrenchingly suffering from the legacy of dispossession, because we care about people who suffer. We have compassion for their plight and we understand that the fair go means giving them a helping hand in life.

    We do this because we understand that social security is an important element of citizenship in any nation that takes egalitarianism the least bit seriously. To be a citizen of such a society entails more than just a bundle of civil and political rights.

    With citizenship comes membership of a moral community where citizens enjoy upon the basis of equality a number of entitlements. My right to vote, my right to protest, my right not to suffer from discrimination and the like is no more and no less than yours or anyone else’s.

    The welfare state enriched our understanding of what it means to be a citizen of Australia. The social elements of citizenship, which had been slowly built upon in Australia from even before Federation, to use the fine words of Marshall in the British context, “entail the right to a modicum of economic welfare and security; to the right to share in the social heritage and to live the life of a civilised being according to the standards prevailing in the society.”

    We did this because we understood that unregulated free market capitalism brings with it inequalities and injustices that make a mockery of the idea of a shared moral community whereby citizens are given the opportunity to live a rich social life as fellow members of a participatory society. A nation infused with the spirit of egalitarianism does not tolerate a permanent underclass because it is recognised that such an underclass would unjustly miss out on much that Australian society has to offer.

    To end “the age of entitlement” means nothing less than ending the very conception of Australian citizenship that, in part, social security was meant to enshrine. It will entrench an underclass alienated from Australian society, to be noticed only on ABC and SBS bourgeois sketch comedy.

    It should be stressed that this attack does not apply just in regard to social welfare. The mooted attacks on both the minimum wage and awards, on the back of a fraudulent campaign alleging wages in Australia are too high, also form a significant armoury in Abbott’s attack on Australia.

    We know that the government’s “debt and deficit” rhetoric justifying its harsh budget measures is but a furphy.

    Public debt as a proportion of GDP is low, moreover the economic theory on the effects of public debt on economic growth that has been used to justify austerity the world over has been shown to be wrong if not an example of scientific fraud. That said, a lot of the discussion on the budget misses an obvious but more important prior point………

    http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=16315&page=0

    I do not believe we have had a government, that has attempted t0o change the fabric of this society, as this one is. The success of Labor, and Rudd’s successful challenge of the GFC undermines all that this mob believes in. This is why they feel they have to destroy the stimulus package and all Labor stands for. the success of the stimulus makes a mockery of this governments ingrained beliefs.

    We have heard so much about Labor waste. For he first time, this budget has identified what they believe that waste to be. Yes, any assistance given to lower income earners. They see such action as undermining capitalism. How else can one explain their actions.

  67. The success of Labor, and Rudd’s successful challenge of the GFC undermines all that this mob believes in.

    That is the heart of all their hate imo FU.

    My fear is that this ideological drive will give us a real localized GFC. The budget does nothing for the confidence of the country.

    Before the election, Abbott and Hockey claimed repeatedly to be able to return the budget to surplus by eliminating waste. In truth, they’ve identified and eliminated little or no genuine waste.

    Rather, they’ve defunded worthy causes (grants to charities and cultural activities, overseas aid), imposed new user charges (Medicare benefits, the real interest rate on HECS), whacked up existing user charges (pharmaceutical benefits, university fees) and tightened up means-testing (family tax benefit B).

    But a lot of the longer-term savings come from lowering the indexation of payments from a wage-related index to the consumer price index. In the case of pensions, this will cause the relative value of pensions to fall continuously over time, pushing the aged and disabled below the poverty line.

    In the case of payments to the states for schools and hospitals – whose main cost is wages – it leaves an ever-widening gap the states wouldn’t have a hope of covering by increased efficiency, only from other revenue sources. (The cost of medical supplies grows much faster than the CPI.)

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/less-to-budget-than-meets-the-eye-20140518-38hut.html#ixzz327UB0v6B

  68. Not only did they lie out of their arses before the election, they are still lying to us AFTER the budget

    Information withheld from the budget shows high income couples may suffer scarcely at all while low income families on benefits could lose as much as 10 per cent of their incomes.

    Joe Hockey’s budget is the first without it.
    On Monday, Mr Hockey disagreed on Monday that low income earners were the hardest hit.
    …..
    Their findings, published by Fairfax Media today, show people on benefits suffer far more from the budget than those on high incomes. The worst off is an unemployed 23-year-old whose income will slide to be 18.3 per cent worse off as a result of the budget.
    A single parent on the parenting payment with one child aged six will be 10.2 per cent worse off.
    In contrast, someone earning three times the average wage will lose just 0.9 per cent of their take-home income.
    A high-income childless couple earning $360,000 a year will lose nothing whatsoever.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/missing-figures-show-poor-are-hit-20140518-38i05.html#ixzz327dKgeEY

  69. How much will this one cost us pensioners alone. Even the sinlge mother can pay rates etc. Yes, and travel concessions.

    Cuts for concession card holders

    Saves $1.3 billion over four years from July 1 2014

    Axing the National Partnership Agreement on certain concessions for pensioners concession card and seniors card holders will affect discounts on rates, water, sewerage and power bills, car rego and public transport discounts.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-19/how-billions-in-budget-cuts-will-begin-to-hit-states/5462290?WT.mc_id=newsmail

    GO to site for full list. Well full list at this time. We do not know what tomorrow will unearth.

  70. A Catholic priest and several pastors have been arrested for staging a peaceful prayer vigil in Tony Abbott’s electoral office in Sydney.

    The group entered the building in Manly on Monday morning and began praying for detained child asylum seekers and the prime minister’s soul.

    They were hoping to secure a promise from Mr Abbott to release the 1023 children held in Australian-run immigration detention centres.

    The group occupied the reception area of the electorate office for about three hours before being arrested.

    Police led the protesters outside about 2pm but laid no charges.

    Read more at http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/05/19/12/36/church-leaders-stage-pm-office-protest#A2kgeSKEW3h6BYlY.99

  71. I see that the GST “debate”is already moving away from the blackmail that it is into one about how to save us all from ourselves.

    Labor need to get out in front now, before it moves too far. State loudly WHY it is such a terrible tax, and put forward their alternate. Carbon Price and Mining Tax, defend them, along with things such as FBT rorts and superannuation changes this Government has brought in.

    The time is now to put forward a positive alternative, don’t just play the tabot negative. Even more devastating when that alternative is what they already had. It was clear that Labors policies were popular, it was the circus around the party, created, fed and fanned by rudd, murdoch and tabot, that brought them down, not their policies.

  72. The chief executive of the Grattan Institute, John Daley, said on Monday that the Abbott government’s controversial $7 medical co-payment plan, its decision to introduce uncapped fees in the university sector, and its work for the dole scheme were bad policies that would not help to fix the structural budget deficit.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/coalition-ridiculed-over-bad-policies-20140519-38k7y.html#ixzz32D2m5NMK

    I remember someone arguing that the structural deficit was a fiction created by Labor. It appears that our institutions have been run indoctrinated into Labors fantasies.

    Nice that they are talking about it now, but several years too late. Labor expended much political capital on this, only to be ridiculed by murdoch and then the rest of the msm, with tabot happily clapping along behind. NOW it is an issue. Muppets

  73. For a budget that’s supposed to be for consumer confidence it certainly has failed just like everything else this woeful government has done.

    Consumer confidence plummets after budget and has declined 14% in the last four weeks.

  74. Consumer confidence plummets after budget and has declined 14% in the last four weeks.

    Just imagine what will happen once the full horror of this budget is exposed 😯

  75. And it’s not what is in the budget that is being revealed as the most terrible ever, but also what has been deliberately left out or hidden that’s also a shocker.

    As one commentator stated this is a budget that richly rewards all the Liberal supporters and backers at the cost of everyone else.

  76. And do you want to know the best indicator of just how bad this budget and government really are.

    There are no right wingers here trying to defend it. They’ve disappeared from the moment the lies and deceits of it were revealed. As much as they have tried they can no longer convolute their defence of Abbott’s blatant lies as the truth.

  77. There are no right wingers here trying to defend it.

    Even they aren’t that stupid.

    Oh…wait, I saw the murdoch rags this morning. Yes they are 😦

  78. One of the few competent journos left. I can’t see this government backing down though.

    It is not just the dramatic slump in the government’s primary and two-party preferred vote, or the fact that Labor is, for the first time, the major beneficiary of this slump. It is not just that voters – in spectacular, angry numbers – think the budget is both unfair and not good for the country.

    It is not even that Tony Abbott’s barefaced refusal to confront the fact he is breaking promises has enraged voters in a way that makes his position with them unrecoverable.

    It is the fact that this poll suggests Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey will have little choice but to go back and rethink the entire political and economic strategy on which this budget is built.

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/budget_quake_puts_pm_on_shaky_ground_d4GjE8ENauOsEguKGxqOlO

  79. Tom R – I wish I could agree with you that:

    “Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey will have little choice but to go back and rethink the entire political and economic strategy on which this budget is built.”

    However, I think that (and I can hardly believe I’m saying this) we might under-rate their political nouse. The more I’ve thought about what’s happening, the more it seems to me that this response may be exactly what they want – as an excuse for revamping our political structure.

    It may be, of course, that I and others have been right to feel that they are totally ignorant and incompetent fools and ideologues who just can’t help themselves. I wonder though, can being so right wing, (as much as I disagree with it), actually equate only with ignorance or incompetence? If not, then what is the design that must lie behind these blatantly provocative actions and policies?

    My feeling is that it is something much worse – a revamp of the system, whilst the overwhelming majority of the States are also under Liberal control, which will savagely inhibit freedoms, justice, and welfare of the ordinary person while, at the same time, building the police into a para-military force (which is already happening) and buying the goodwill of the defence force by giving it more toys and facilities.

    I hope that you can assure me that I’m misguided in my opinion and that my fears are unwarranted. I’ll be happier, if you can. Right now – although it seems that the conservatives are “on the nose” – I feel a terrible sense of foreboding. It is not eased by a look over my shoulder at history and how easily everyday Australians seem be fooled by populism.

    Tell me that I’ve got it wrong, please …

  80. I hope that you can assure me that I’m misguided in my opinion and that my fears are unwarranted. I’ll be happier, if you can

    Sorry mikisdad, I can’t help you with your fears there. The libs might be nasty, protective and vindictive, but they are not stupid. And, they know the political system and the populace well. This level of incompetence is driven either by pure ideological malice, or, as you allude to, a deeper and more sinister program.

    I’m still hoping it is just ideological blindness and a moment of hubris, but their history points to a longer game (of Thrones?).

  81. I am no great lover of Palmer but he does not make sense sometimes.

    ………..Abbott and Hockey have extended the age of eligibility for the old age pension to 70 years. This meant the vesting age for those with super would eventually extend too, meaning that Australians would get access to their super one hour before they died, or at a time when 30% of them had already died. But the fund managers who manage super would be happy because they would continue to make record fees for longer and the lobbyists they employed would continue to donate to the Liberal party.

    They also cut $80bn in funding to the states, which will cripple their capacity to run hospitals and schools. This means they will likely be privatised and sold to businesses which could increase health and education costs ,to make huge profits and hold a monopoly over the lives of all Australians. Similarly, the introduction of a GP co-payment of $7 was devastating news for sick Australians on limited incomes, such as single mothers, pensioners and the unemployed. Liberal voters who had been loyal for over 50 years had been betrayed at the end of their life.

    The rest of the electorate has been thrown on the scrap heap. An increase to the GST is being mooted, but the GST just taxes individual taxpayers, not businesses. All businesses get their GST refunded by the government, so are moves to increase the GST just about increasing taxes on Australians without them knowing it? High income women – mostly Liberal party voters – will benefit from the paid parental scheme, while stay at home mums would get nothing and women on lower wages would only get a fraction. Increased crime and increased youth suicide are also now very serious concerns, after the Abbott government took away the eligibility for young people to qualify for government assistance for six months after they were unemployed. ……….

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/19/abbott-has-delivered-a-budget-for-the-lobbyists-and-liberal-donors?CMP=ema_632

  82. It is looking more and more like sad times ahead for many……. the abborttion pm and his fellow cohorts would be well advised to watch out for thems grassy knolls me thinks, mm…… and thems flying shoes…… 😀 ….. and just so ppl k-know I am not advocating the throwing of footwear at abbott and co…..and just so ppl k-know I am not advocating the throwing of footwear at abbott and co……and just so ppl k-know I am not advocating the throwing of footwear at abbott and co…….no, really I’m not….. honest 👿 ….just because it happened to Howard, and just because we k-know how Tones likes to emulate the ‘little master’, does not mean that people should ‘show’ their offence in such an symbolic semi-non-semi-violent way…….and just so ppl k-know I am not advocating the throwing of footwear at abbott and co…… and etc… infinitum…… 😉
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shoe_throwing_incidents

  83. Was sitting in a bar in Germany over the weekend, and even the locals are asking me what the *F* is Abbott up to.

  84. what the *F* is Abbott up to.

    Making Germany appear even more attractive 😉

    Good to hear from you joni, hope all is going well. I read somewhere yesterday that Germany is about to REDUCE their retirement age? Could you keep a bar-stool free, might be heading over there soon 😦

  85. tabot does his best to add to the one punch “debate”

  86. Tom did you read the convolutions the few right wing supporters go through to excuse it?

    ————————–
    Nice to hear from you again joni. Always good when you pop up to comment.

    I’ve also been getting bits of feedback from other countries about this government and none of it positive in anyway.

    Abbott in the shortest time has totally trashed this country both domestically and internationally.

  87. I did a silly thing yesterday, i turned on to alan jones, 20 seconds was more than enough. he was still rubbishing labor, does he still think they are the government?

  88. Jonie – doesn’t surprise me – neither would it if they were asking, ” Is Australia’s PM an aspiring Hitler? He appears to have learned nothing from the past and doesn’t even have the excuse of 20 years of his people being demonised. Does he realise what happens to all dictators in the end?”

  89. did you read the convolutions the few right wing supporters go through to excuse it?

    I did note a concerted push not just from right wingers but many in the msm before the budget running the line about ”all pollies lie, no worries”

    I think it is the sheer number and level of lies the budget contained that has a lot of them up in arms.

    They protected him for years, maybe assuming that they wouldn’t be hurt, but since this budget has been able to upset everyone but the very top, and hit so hard on those at the very bottom, even they have started to sit up and take notice.

    I also heard on the radio just then from the business council(?)

    After the biggest fall in consumer confidence since BEFORE the GFC (ie, even the GFC didn’t fall this far??) the lady in question was actually happy with the budget WTF??

    She knows where her bread is buttered. She also railed against the idea of states applying income taxes instead of raising the GST.

    Pretty much sums up her ideology imo

  90. does he still think they are the government?

    I have noticed the shrillness with which the rwdb’s are attempting to pin this all on Labor still

    Shorten is playing it well though, measured and reasoned arguments that expose the fraud the budget is, and ably helped in this from some unlikely sources, PUP and sections of the msm, who are looking (finally) at facts and figures, not just taking tabots ramblings as gospel truths any more.

  91. I heard bill shock shorten delivering the line yesterday when tabot tried to rule out changes to the GST wtte that if tabot is denying it, then that’s when we really need to worry. He has many examples to support this line, being added to daily it appears

  92. Abbott not giving the students a excuse to protest. Maybe he should have given the ABC radio and Stella a miss.

    Abbott seem to be saying he did not want police time monopolised. Pyne last night, said the police said it was too dangerous to appear.

    Still no great talk on MSM about the number of religious people who staged a prayer meeting at his office. Where arrested and placed in front of the magistrate, who dismiss the matter, as they were causing no harm. I still do not know what happened

    The action taken by this PM is a little ingenious, when one recalls he himself led university protests. Led protest against Gillard, stirring up hate. Had his minister lead the aging delinquents into parliament and the houses, to disrupt question time.

    There has been a creeping action by states to limit the right of the people to protest.

    Every PM previous to this one, has had the guts to face the people. Abbott since being elected has been reluctant to do so. In fact for months, Abbott along with his ministers were rarely seen.

    Remember Howard, even if he donned the flack jacket, he did not hide from the public.

    .

  93. Who else is sick of hearing Abbott say, “I get it” every time someone corners him. The trouble is, he does not get it.

  94. Watch this carefully. Bishop deliberately walk through that very small number of protestors. Same if one watches a longer video of the so called Mirabella attack. There was NO violence from any student.

    As for the attack on Pyne, that was extremely mild.

    As for the prayer sit-in at Abbott’s office where the priests, nun and other clergy where taken before the court, was silence and prayers. Magistrate threw that one out, saying they had committed no crime.

    Democracy is based on everyone’s right to protest, demonstrate or whatever one call it.

  95. Tony Abbott’s daughter was given scholarship for $60,000 design degree

    Tony Abbott’s daughter Frances received a “chairman’s scholarship” for a degree costing more than $60,000 from the Whitehouse Institute of Design where an Abbott donor sits as chairman on the board of governors, Guardian Australia can reveal.

    The revelation raises questions for the prime minister over whether the scholarship should have been declared on his interests register

    Exclusive: Frances Abbott was awarded a chairman’s scholarship for bachelors degree at prestigious Sydney institute where a donor to her father sits as chair of board of governors
    .

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/21/tony-abbotts-daughter-did-not-have-to-pay-for-60000-design-degree

    I wonder if she still works out of daddy’s office. Wonder if his staff still looks after her?

  96. More

    Frances Abbott undertook a bachelor of design at the Whitehouse Institute of Design in Sydney from 2011 to 2013. Guardian Australia has confirmed that she received a scholarship during her time at the institute.

  97. They say there is great duplication between the feds and state governments. I wonder if that is not another furphy. When one looks at what is being lopped off at the knees now, they seem to be in different areas, when it comes to health and education

  98. Has Abbott ever explained, why during an election campaign, he, as health minister bought this hospital?

    Funding of Tasmanian hospital remains despite budget cuts to state grants

    Taxpayers still on hook for $13.6m funding decison by Tony Abbott for takeover of a small hospital in northern Tasmania

    Tony Abbott: The commonwealth assumed ownership of the Mersey Community hospital from the Tasmanian government on 23 November, 2007. Photograph: Alan Porritt/AAPIMAGE

    Tony Abbott enraged the states by telegraphing an $80bn cut in grants for health and education services in last week’s budget – but the economic statement also reveals taxpayers are still on the hook for a controversial and costly decision he took as health minister in 2007 to take over a small hospital in northern Tasmania……….

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/21/tasmanian-hospital-funding-remains-despite-budget-cuts-to-state-grants

  99. come on right wing nut job trolls, show more courage that your chicken leader and stand up for him. now what is your opinion of tony abbott since the announcement of the budget ?

  100. Occupied with telling lies about NBNCo. Becoming harder for him to do. If one looks, many others are keeping their heads below the parapet. Abbott much be getting lonely out thetr in front.

  101. I do not believe Turnbull will be a contender. Trouble is, I cannot identify anyone else take over.

    Cormann is interested, but in the wrong house. Not if that means he cannot Gorton was made PM from there.

  102. The Business ABC 1 is scathing of the budget, Comment. Businesses not buying the governments hard line. Pulling no punches. Drop in confidence. Sluggish wage growth. Will not help the economy. The Hockey budget document could ber the document that stops the economy.

  103. Is he counting numbers?

    Are you assuming someone in the libs ranks can count ❓ 😯

    In fact, the complete lack of accounting and understanding in the budget from the libs makes it look more and more like they weren’t the ultimate architects of it. We have had several years of the big end of town, in miners, big oil and ltd news (to name a few) running a concerted campaign against the former Government both out in the open and also under the cover of the libs. There was going to be a reckoning, a paying back of debts, and this is it imo.

    I don’t rate the libs as stupid, in fact, they are fiendishly clever, and definitely not stupid enough to pull something like this, without being pushed from elsewhere to so. The vested interests know this is their one big shot, and, should the libs not get back in, not really their problem. The fallout is for the libs to work out, the interests want their pay day, and they all want it now.

    It really is the only feasible reason this budget would be so weighted to the big end of town, and at the same time, so misunderstood by it’s facilitators.

    Either that, or the entire party has gone stark raving mad.

  104. joni he pops up every now and again to put put the boot into Labor, never sounding convincing though. He looks haggard and his appearances are always very short and always a lie.

  105. re turnbull, there has been much musing of this at PollBludger recently, and the general consensus has been, to my eye, that the far right is so ingrained in the libs that a move anywhere back to the left (which, scarily, turnbull apparently is) would disable the party far too much. In essence, not a hope in hell.

    Seeing this budget, I can fully understand where they are coming from.

    Also, as ME points out, turnbull has lied so much, and so thoroughly trashed the NBN, which was very popular, I don’t think he has the political capital left in him anyway.

    And hockey has exposed himself forever as a bumbling nitwit after this budget process. Avuncular maybe, competent, ROFL

  106. Tom R, I do not think it is the big end of town driving this budget. One only had to listen to The Business last night. They are saying that this budget document could lead to an economy free fall. They are concerned for falling business and consumer confidence plus the sluggish wage growth.

    I an fast coming to the conclusion, it is pure extreme dogma and ideology. It is all about very small government and low taxes.

    Even taking away pensions concessions from full pensioners will be as greater hit than most can afford. Paying my full land and water rates will be hit. But not as much, as losing the transport concession. I live where we have poor services, but can afford to catch the bus. It costs $2.50 per day, to go anywhere I need, including Sydney. Not too sure what the full fare will be, but I pay half fare $2.30 half fare one way, to my local shopping area. That is where I shop. I suspect if the concession goes, it will be $4.60 each way. Just to get to the shops. As for going to Sydney to visit my kids, that will not be often. This is big increase in expenses. I will be housebound. My trips to Curves three times a week will go. Curves helps to keep me fit and healthy.

    The liars still say, there has been nor changes to the pensions.

    I refuse to believe that business would want this budget.

  107. Even the unis are saying they do not want Pyne’s changes.

    Top universities concerned government cuts will lead to inequality.The vice-chancellor of the University of Sydney fears that some children will be unable to afford a tertiary education due to the federal government’s reforms.

    “I want the best students, not only those who can afford to pay,” Dr Michael Spence told Fairfax Media.

    A Fairfax Media report has revealed that university leaders are concerned that deregulating course fees would force school leavers to select courses without knowing whether they will have to pay extra fees.

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott says he can’t guarantee university fees won’t double because of his government’s deregulation of the sector.

    But he can say they won’t have to pay a cent up front

    http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2014/05/22/aussie-unis-fear-class-war/

    It is OK if they double, as one does not have to pay up front. Public debt bad. Private debt good.

  108. Tony Abbott pulls out of Geelong university appearance ahead of planned protests

    Mr Abbott’s office on Tuesday afternoon cancelled the event with Deakin University that was to celebrate the work of Carbon Nexus, which had received some federal funds in the past.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-pulls-out-of-geelong-university-appearance-ahead-of-planned-protests-20140520-38l1o.html#ixzz32OYCc0nu
    …..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-pulls-out-of-geelong-university-appearance-ahead-of-planned-protests-20140520-38l1o.html#ixzz32OXx8jyG

  109. ….Australia has a jobs crisis rather than a welfare crisis, according to the Salvation Army’s Economic and Social Impact Survey of nearly 2500 clients.

    Current job search and employment service programs are having “little impact on those with significant disadvantage”, its report said.

    With respondents overwhelmingly unemployed and on income support the survey found disability and health problems, caring responsibilities, and limited resources for education or job searching “all appear to impede respondents’ ability to gain sustainable employment..

    http://theconversation.com/salvos-point-to-job-crisis-among-the-disadvantaged-27033?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+22+May+2014&utm_content=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+22+May+2014+CID_d699db09aba0b9025cd53858145b00e1&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Salvos%20point%20to%20job%20crisis%20among%20the%20disadvantaged

  110. What is worse, the wink or not being access budget detail. Details of a budget he is trying to sell. Hockey not much better in this regard. Dutton said on day one, thee would be no exemptions to the levy. Hockey said there would be. Who does one believe.

    ………Abbott’s wink, when 67-year old pensioner Gloria from Warburton told him on talk back that she worked on an adult sex line to make ends meet, went viral. His office’s spin was to say he was just signalling – after seeing the expression on the face of interviewer Jon Faine – that he was cool with the question. Abbott himself explained later: “Jon was smiling at me and I responded to him.”

    In the same interview Abbott made a mistake about the budget changes to university fees. Not being across the detail of an area students were taking to the streets about was, to say the least, careless…

    http://theconversation.com/the-prime-ministers-strange-tale-of-meeting-a-bloke-on-a-bike-27043?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+22+May+2014&utm_content=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+22+May+2014+CID_d699db09aba0b9025cd53858145b00e1&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=The%20personal%20hostility%20against%20Tony%20Abbott%20looms%20as%20a%20heavy%20burden%20for%20the%20government

  111. They are saying that this budget document could lead to an economy free fall. They are concerned for falling business and consumer confidence plus the sluggish wage growth.

    Undoubtedly true. Perhaps they forgot to take into account how many vested interests there were? Or how much all of them combined would affect the economy.

    Or, the libs are just as bat-shit crazy as they look? Blindly following ideology will do that.

    Interestingly, Labor were always accused of being ideologically driven, when it suited the media. They were also castigated for nobody apparently knowing what they stood for.

    A sticky predicament to find yourself in, and bewildering how it got to that stage (no it’s not, it was a tool of murdoch)

  112. By the way, I find that $2.50 concession fare for the day, taking me over a 100 kilometres very cheap. Would not object to it being doubled, huts not done away with.

  113. Being ideology driven is the only explanation one can give for this budget. There are n others.

    Labor kept it’s stupid drive to bring the budget back to surplus to the middle of last year. Figured given by the treasury warned Labor that to continue down the track they were taking, making cuts would lead to the economy collapsing

    Labor was forced into a very embarrassing back down, by saying they could no longer deliver surplus. To keep on doing so, would lead to the economy nose diving.

    Abbott and Co have ignored that advice, and gone ahead with their slash and burn. Has done so in a way that would guarantee to harm the economy. .

  114. Hockey does nt want CC on G20 agenda. Cannor see how this could happen

    A number of European ambassadors to Australia have criticised the government’s approach to climate change.After the carbon tax is scrapped by the Abbott government they say Australia will inevitably have to return to a carbon price.Europe is disappointed with Australia’s decision to drop climate change from the agenda for the G20 summit of world leaders to be held in Brisbane in November – See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/05/22/ambassadors-criticise-climate-policy-wp-lvo.html#sthash.OiJ9S5vw.dpuf

    Ambassadors, including those of Italy and Sweden, made the rare public criticism at an Australian National University forum.However, a European Union official has told Sky News the EU is confident the issue will end up on the agenda at the G20 after intense lobbying of Australia by international governments – See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/05/22/ambassadors-criticise-climate-policy-wp-lvo.html#sthash.OiJ9S5vw.dpuf……….

    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/05/22/ambassadors-criticise-climate-policy-wp-lvo.html

    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/05/22/ambassadors-criticise-climate-policy-wp-lvo.html#ooid=N2Nzgwbjow1nEk-SlmK1eZUGh9EqS_6R

  115. Tony’s quest for global domination is almost complete.

    When he said “Open for Business”, I didn’t think he meant the comedy channel 😦

  116. Dutton now addressing the AMA. Not often do you see him talk about health. Nothing but lies so far. By the way, this body does not support his actions.

    Dutton is claiming that bulk billing was for those that cannot afford to pay. Sorry, Mr Dutton, you are wrong.
    My hearing specialist has jut told me to go to the GP to get my ear dewaxed.

    Sorry cannot go this week. Cannot afford the $60 up front. No eought the bank account to next payday Yes, I do get $32 ack.

    Yes Mr Dutton, I am already paying.

  117. The New Statement has also made comments. Not just on the wink. They are saying he is the most hated PM. No, this PM is not hated. He is ridiculed He is seen as an idiot. Not hated though. One could begin to pity him, as he is so incompetent.

  118. For the first time, since have lived on this estate, many years in fact, one can talk politics. Yes, it does not seem a dirty word anymore any are concerned how their sons and daughters are going o cope. That aside, they are also worrying how the are going to be aloe to pay the bills.

    Mr Hockey found a media outlet in the USA that praised his budget.

    M Dutton is claiming that bulk billing was only ever for those who cannot afford to pay. No, bulk billing was a big important plank in first Medibank, then Medicare. Labor has always worked on getting the bulk billing rates up

  119. Labor has always worked on getting the bulk billing rates up.

    As did Abbott as Health Minister when they dropped.

  120. Interesting observation I read a short time ago. The number of right wing commentators has dramatically dropped off across online forums, as they have here.

    One blog that would regularly have a plethora of Labor bashing, Liberal supporting Abbott apologetics has now just one sporadic and one regular, and the regular only makes a half arsed effort to defend Abbott.

    Could it be there is a great deal of discontent with Abbott amongst his own out there and/or he is so bad, lied so frequently and is stuffing up so often they can no longer go through mental convolutions to defend his lies and deceits.

  121. Maybe a sign of things to come here as well. Upcoming State election might be a precursor.

    Conservative vote tanking badly in UK Council elections with Labour having strong gains across the board.

  122. The number of right wing commentators has dramatically dropped off

    I think they are trying to find a bullshit story that will stick ME. Last I heard, they on their fourth recycling of the same tired old chestnuts, and even they don’t believe them 😉

  123. Abbott out selling roads in SA Wonder if this road, is another that Albanese also announced.

    Another paper reports on Abbott. Hockey said the New York Post praised him. Is not that a Murdoch rag.

    ………….Mr Abbott has also been warned to keep his winking” out of diplomacy, with the infamous gesture now also making headlines in Indonesia.

    The Jakarta Post newspaper said his wink could be seen as suggestive of arrogance.

    In its editorial on Friday, titled `Abbott’s wink: what’s the joke?’, the influential English-language newspaper noted, “In the eyes of many Indonesians, the PM is not averse to being insensitive.”…….

    http://www.news.com.au/national/the-washington-post-says-tony-abbott-is-becoming-one-of-the-worlds-most-hated-pms/story-fncynjr2-1226928444994

  124. Another road, it seems is still in early days of being assessed. Yes, very early in the planning process. First question about Pyne. Does not want to answer. SA premier is having a hard time keeping a straight face. ABC 24

  125. ……Thousands of nursing graduates are unable to find work in Australian hospitals, according to the nurses’ union.

    Traditionally Australian nurses have been in high demand, but unions say that large numbers of foreign workers on 457 visas are taking their place.

    The union says that each year about 8,000 Australian students graduate with a nursing qualification, but that there are around 3,000 nurses who cannot find work..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-24/thousands-of-nursing-graduates-unable-to-find-work/5475320

    I suspect many are under thirty. I wonder where the redundancy is going to come from, to bide them over, until the job appears.

  126. Nursing facts:
    •In 2012, there were 334,078 nurses working in Australia, while 8,425 people graduated from nursing degrees.
    •2011-2013, 3,095 457 temporary business visas were granted to nurses to work in Australia.
    •Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation estimates that 3,000 nursing graduates from 2013 have been unable to find work.
    •Health Workforce Australia predicts that by 2025, there will be a shortage of 109,000 nurses in Australia.
    Sources: Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, Federal Department of Education, Department of Immigration and ..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-24/thousands-of-nursing-graduates-unable-to-find-work/5475320

    I am sure I heard Abbott say in SA this morning, that he was curtailing some consumer spending for the good of the economy I the longer run. Does this mean, he is aware that his budget will mean, those on the bottom of the heap will be spending less. Translated, to those on the bottom can go without.
    Abbo9tt said that many of his measures are ground breaking. If so, why did he not tell us so, before the election.

    ” Scales back short term consumption spending to boost long term investment” ABC 24 SA

    How does this work. Does one destroys the economy to rebuild it.

    PS I am sure of those words. I rerun the section, using subtitles.

  127. It appears that they now want Abbott to announce tax cuts. Would that not make the budget worse. Take from bottom income earners to give more to those t the top?????????????

    It is not those at the top that are hurting or screaming.

  128. So the unemployed have or so Mr Andrews believes.

    “It’s not as if people have got no options”: Social Services Minister Kevin Andrews. Photo: Andrew Meares

    Young unemployed people facing the prospect of receiving no dole for six months should simply take a job they do not really want or do a course, according to Social Services Minister Kevin Andrews.

    In an exclusive interview with Fairfax Media, Mr Andrews also foreshadowed sweeping changes to Australia’s welfare system, highlighting that about 50 different government payments are now under review…

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/take-any-job-kevin-andrews-tells-young-facing-no-dole-for-six-months-20140523-38ufu.html#ixzz32bHswt17
    I suppose they could choose to starve, bludge of the parents, or top themselves All choices would let the government off the hook.

  129. Has anyone any idea of what Abbott is about? Could ity just be another game to him?

    ……….ly disturbing about Tony Abbott – and has been all his career – are the shifts and changes of tack. There’s a sense that there is no through line to the narrative except the pursuit of power. The Abbott we see at any particular moment seems only the Abbott that’s necessary for now. Another shift is always on the cards.

    Abbott the minister for health in the Howard government floated the idea that Canberra should take over the hospitals of the nation. The party, the cabinet and the bureaucracy were appalled. He went even further in his 2009 manifesto Battlelines, calling for Canberra to be given all power in all fields in order that the national “government can call the shots”.

    But Abbott PM has brought down a budget that slashes health and education funding in order that each state be “sovereign in its own sphere”. This is not a small shift. Very different ideas of Australia are involved. So what’s the narrative here? How has the Abbott of 2009 morphed into the Abbott of today? He offers no explanation. He just presents himself as a different man for a different ……….

    http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/topic/politics/2014/05/24/david-marr-the-budget-hidden-man/1400853600#.U4AbLFqKCvQ

    Could it be, there is nothing to him, that he is just a empty shell.

  130. An empty shell Fu that is filled by others that hold it, and each fills it with different ideas to their own ends, and thus the shell changes from moment to moment depending on who is holding it.

    In Howard’s time it was Howard who held the shell and filled it, mostly with attack dog slaver. Now it’s Credlin and the IPA who cram it with as much as they can to achieve their own ends, wealth at the expense of the country and people.

  131. What we need to do is increase some taxes, like the MRRT, for instance, not remove the Carbon Price, get rid of huge subsides to those making huge profits and make corporates pay the same as individuals, for starters. If Joe wants to talk about ‘heavy lifting’ then get rid of the loop-holes of the upper class welfare state…make them share the load, Joe. 👿
    But they won’t 🙄 …and they never will.. bite those hands that feed ‘thems’ 😡 …the evidence is overwhelming… this government sucks… they have pressed the flush button on their political careers… and are taking US down the toilet with them. *groans* … *shakes head*

  132. “Of the 50,000 people who congregated on the streets to protest your policies and shout your name among many synonyms for the word ‘nasty’ last weekend, thousands of them were teenagers. They chanted for animal welfare, asylum seekers, foreign affairs, university cuts, marriage equality and anything else that was close to their heart. They care about politics. I care about politics. Don’t you dare discourage that.

    And rather than joining the Liberal Party, as you so cordially suggested, I think I’ll just…….”
    http://truth4youth.com.au/an-open-letter-to-mr-abbott/

  133. Luv the tweetery at the end of link 🙂
    “The Abbott Government’s first budget rips money away from conservation and anti-pollution measures while handing billions to wealthy multinationals in discount fuel. The big end of town’s diesel fuel subsidies cost every taxpayer around $300 a year. “While other motorists continue to pay 32c a litre now and more each year on fuel, companies like Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton pay no tax on the diesel they use. And because the fuel excise will increase every year, big corporations will get an increased subsidy every year. “The fuel tax credits subsidy alone is worth more than the Federal Government provides to public schools. ”
    http://takvera.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/climate-science-and-clean-energy-suffer.html
    …..

  134. One wonders what ‘they’ did, done, do’ed, whilst they were in opposition 🙄 … ‘they’ can not even be direct aboot Direct Action….surely Tones could of formulated a “Plan” so, in so far as, his cohorts coulda woulda shoulda been able to- ‘spin’ the whole Carbonated Green Indentured Slave thingy…. but No….nada…..there is NOT a person on this most precious of planets that can understand nor, or so it would seem, EXPLAIN- Direct Action…….. ( I can explain it; and I have no need of ‘three word slogans’…….. one will suffice….. “CROCK” )

    http://takvera.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/government-direct-action-climate-policy.html#more

  135. Is there anything that these guys aren’t hypocritical about or lie about?

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/28/joe-hockey-video-shows-treasurer-protested-student-fees

    I love it how Liberals and fans are calling for respect and better treatment of pollies and no name calling…blah blah blah. Well they kind of set the new standard there with their Gillard persecution and showed what disgusting human beings they are. Sorry guys, the horse has bolted and you are the ones that left the gate open.

  136. On the Green Army the PM commented;
    “At huge expense, we have built a vast system of interconnecting stupidities”………well..ok, he really didn’t say that… it just sounds like one of ‘his’ 😀
    “For every dollar that government invests in Landcare, the community provides at least A$2.60 and up to A$12 of voluntary contribution in labour and materials. The soldiers of the Green Army are unlikely to be so generous. It does not make economic, environmental or social sense to displace Landcare projects with a Green Army.

    The budget papers describe the Green Army as “Australia’s largest ever environmental workforce, building to 15,000 participants by 2018-19”. This claim may be news to the more than half a million members of Landcare, including 75% of broadacre and dairy farmers, and 50% of all farmers. ”
    http://theconversation.com/another-broken-promise-budget-switches-landcare-for-green-army-26818

  137. looks like your not banned now neil, now tell us all why this budget is so great for all of us ?

  138. I have been banned from AIMN for some reason. So i made a post here.

    The budget is great because we were heading for $667B of debt if nothing was done.

    Labor only produces debt.

    Debt went from 5% of GDP to approx 20% of GDP under Labor from 1983-1996. If Keating was not thrown out in 1996 debt would have gone from 20% of GDP to 60% of GDP.

    Luckily for us Howard/Costello was elected in 1996 and cleaned up the mess you lot created.

    After the mess was cleaned up you lot got us into mess again.

    PS Michael why did you ban me???

  139. To save time here Neil, I’l tell you the same as everywhere else you’ve been wasting electrons lately, “F*€# off NEIL!!!” 😆

  140. I was correcting falsehoods like Howard/Costello continued to borrow money for no apparent reason.

    Costello continued to borrow money even though we had no debt in 2007 because he wanted to keep the bond market open.

    I was then accused of telling lies. I have told no lies. But was banned for correcting falsehoods.

    You lefties are natural totalitarians. What lies have i told??

  141. I have told no lies.

    So where did you get the $667 billion figure from Neil. Just because your heroes keep repeating that lie, doesn’t automagically turn it into a fact. 😆

  142. Neil I know you have no interest in listening, but I need to point out, when Howard came to power, the economy was slowly righting itself. Keating did takeover from Howard, genuinely finding the economy in distress. Yes, Keating probably made mistakes, all PMs do. But he was also a reforming treasurer And PM, Yes, and the global economy did not always treat him well.

    The economy he left, was no way as the one he took over from Howard.
    The same is true, of what Abbott took over, Yes, this time, thanks to Costello legislation of budget honesty, Abbott was aware of what was coming, or should have been

    Yes, there was a deficit but one that has been trending downwards over a number of years, thanks to the remedial action that Labor practised. Yes, and Abbott fought every cut that Gillard made. Still condemning Labor in QT today, for some of the cuts they made.

  143. I got the $667B figure from Kayes column and am guessing it was a projected figure if nothing was done. Knowing how Labor runs the country it was most probably an underestimate.

    But i was commenting on the falsehoods in Kayes column like we continued to borrow money in 2007 for no apparent reason back in 2006,06,07. I was continually asked about the $667B number but i did not bring it up.

    Kayes column was a load of falsehoods. We continued to borrow money in 2007 even though we did not need to so we could keep the bond market open.

    Same goes for Costello paid off debt by asset sales. Load of crap.

  144. Neil, once again, taking that figure out of context. Suggestion, go back and at least read the whole paragraph. Cannot expect you to read the whole article. That is Hockey’s figure , Cannot be found in any official document. even so, it is only a projection, a guess. Yes, if this remains the same, if this happened, if one dos that, we might get that figure, Get it Neil.

  145. One wonders with NoS being so ardently in love with Howard that he may have developed some kind of ‘circular stagflation’ with his own ‘commentary style’. 😛

  146. Yep CU – that figure is projected debt in 10 years time using Hockey’s assumptions and including the Lieberals’ changes since PEFO ($8.8B gift to RBA, getting rid of much on the revenue side, addition of lots on expenditure side). Just normal dishonesty as you’d expect from these mendacious pr! (#$…

  147. “That is Hockey’s figure , Cannot be found in any official document.”

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/myefo/html/03_part_3.htm

    “In addition, deficits in each and every year, without remedial action, would contribute to a substantial increase in Commonwealth Government Securities on issue, which would rise to $667 billion by 2023‑24 (around 26 per cent of GDP) (Chart 3.4).”

    I did not get the $667B figure from anywhere. But since i have been asked to produce a figure i did a google search and found the $667B figure. I guess Hockey is talking about gross debt in 10 years time.

    I was talking about Kayes falsehhods and then got banned.

  148. I went and had a play with the Wayback Machine the other day Neil. Looked up the old Blogocracy blog. Surprise, surprise – you were spouting the SAME shit in 2008! That’s most likely why you were banned, AND why you don’t seem to be welcome at other sites either. People just get sick of your mindless repetitive crap…

  149. At least i am consistent.

    But i cannot stand falsehoods. Like JH changed the way unemployment was measured to one hour/week to make him look good or some BS like that.

    Just stop telling falsehoods and i will stop being repetitive.

    “That is Hockey’s figure , Cannot be found in any official document
    .”

    Well i found the $667B figure in the 2013-14 budget papers. Most probably an underestimate by people who do not know the ALP. If ALP was still in power it would be heading for $6,667B in debt not $667B.

  150. Neil, old chum. If you’d care to look through the cobwebs of disconnected neurons that you mistakenly call a brain, you’ll find it was in fact me who pointed out the source of the “one hour per week” for you… 🙄

    As for the rest of your BS, perhaps Migs was right all those years ago – maybe the solution to your problem really is to “get your rocks off” with another person for a change 😆 😆

  151. Yes, but not Labor’s debt. There is another figure there that says when Labor lost, the amount was as in the PEFO document. No where near that amount. The figure you are quoting arise from the new debt that Hockey has incurred. More than double what Labor left.

    Yes, this government’s debt.

    As I said the deficit was trending down under Labor, Yes, if Labor got back into power they would have to make some hard decisions as all the low hanging fruit has been cut.

    Labor would have made hard decisions , but not starting with the lowest income earners. NO, they would have began at the top.

  152. Sorry FU

    The $667B figure was in the MYEFO for WAyne SWans last budget

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/myefo/html/03_part_3.htm

    In addition, deficits in each and every year, without remedial action, would contribute to a substantial increase in Commonwealth Government Securities on issue, which would rise to $667 billion by 2023‑24 (around 26 per cent of GDP) (Chart 3.4)”

    Now it is OK to disbelieve budget documents. I do not believe the budget papers when Swan was Treasurer. But you said this

    ““That is Hockey’s figure , Cannot be found in any official document.

    The $667B was in an official document. It was in last years MYEFO. So it is an official figure. But i understand your feelings. I do not believe official numbers in Swans budget papers either.

  153. You’ve heard of Peter Costello Neil? You’ve heard of the ” Charter of Budget Honesty” Neil? Did you know that’s the origin of PEFO? Try looking up the figures in there Neil. Once you’ve done that, you might like to take the advice I gave at 8:17 pm… 😉

  154. FU said the $667B was not in an official document. So i found the $667B in an official document.

    What is your point?? And what has the PEFO got to do with the MYEFO?? The $667B figure was in the MYEFO. And why should i trust Treasury anyway??

    But i do not believe budget figures especially under Swan

    The four years of surpluses I announce tonight are a powerful endorsement of the strength of our economy, resilience of our people, and success of our policies.”

    Wayne Swan 2012

  155. Still like to know why i was banned on AIMN.

    I actually do know. Lefties are natural totalitarians.

    I get accused of derailing the topic. Well people do not have to read my comments.

    But then i get accused of telling lies. When asked what the lie is, nobody gives me an answer.

    And i did not bring up the $667B figure. I was called a liar because Hockey allegedly told a lie.

  156. Yes Neil, once again right., It was in Swans figures backup in the PEFO figures, which te recent budget agreed with. I am guessing, cannot be bother looking it up, the debt figure mentioned, is less than half of what Hockey is now claiming. Not a bad effort in less than eight months to more than doubled the figure.,

    Maybe, I should say, manipulate the figures in an attempt to make it look bad for Labor. Costello’s PEFO makes a mockery of Hockey.

    By the way the chap that is leaving the treasury did not exactly back Abbott as claimed. What he said was to increase the GST but payroll tax. A better and fairer option (Parkinson??)

    Neil, why not give up?

  157. Still like to know why i was banned on AIMN.

    Easy one Neil – because you’re a braindead dropkick who’s been trolling sites with your shit for about seven years. The level of tolerance for your crap is getting lower and lower by the day. Someone with just a modicum of nous would have realised that about six years ago, litle lone (sic) the way you’re treated on more “tolerant” sites.

    The most tolerant can’t even put up with you any more Neil…

  158. Sorry Bacchus

    No trolling. Just telling the facts and correcting your errors.

    Like when Kaye said that Costello kept borrowing money for no reason. Costello kept borrowing money because he wanted to keep the bond markets open.

    Fu says that $667B figure was not in any official documents. It was in the 2013-14 MYEFO.

    etc etc etc. Falsehood after falsehood after falsehood.

  159. LOL Neil. Whose document is the 2013-14 MYEFO? Who has fudged those figures to tell lies?

    You’re right – falsehood after falsehood, ALL from the current government 😉

    You’re a loyal servant for your masters Neil -It’s a pity you’re too stupid to realise that you’re nothing more than a “useful fool” to these psychopathic idealogues 😦

  160. “LOL Neil. Whose document is the 2013-14 MYEFO? Who has fudged those figures to tell lies?

    I see you dodged the point. FU said that $667B figure was not in any official document. It was in the 2013-14 MYEFO. They were in an official document.

    Now you say the figures were fudged. Now i believe you may have an argument but you have to prove it.

    These are Wayne Swans figures for surplus budget figures from 2012-13

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/overview/html/overview_44.htm

    We will have surplus budgets of $1.5B, $2B, $5.3B and $7.4B in the underlying cash balance column from 2012-15.

    Should have been listed under the lying cash balance column.

    Wayne Swan is a proven budget liar.

  161. Probably closer to the truth than most of Costello’s figures 😉

    Speaking of Pete, what is the value of his “Charter of Budget Honesty”? Should we prefer the unbiased figures provided under this law to the obvious (and discredited) figures of the 2nd worst treasurer in our History? (Of course, John W Howard takes 1st place).

  162. Bacchus, he is unbelievable. He reads what is not there. Still cannot get into his head, that deficits are not the disaster he believes. Surplus are not that important. Ignores what is important, the record level of private sector debt under Howard.

  163. The only official document that exists is the PEFO, The MYEFO belongs to the treasurers. The figures are =in the one that belongs to Hockey,

  164. Neil, if the PEFO does not give that figure, it has nothing to do with Swan. The PEFO draws a line under what Swan is responsible for.

    Surely that is not hard to understand.

    Even then, the figures are only projections, predictions., They only count, if nothing changes in the budget or global economy over the next few years. You will recall, that over time, these figures rarely hit the mark, that Labor was regularly making changes to the budget, to bring the budget back into line.

    With Costello, the figures seem to be higher than predicted. During the Labor years, lower. This is bought about instability within the global economy.

    Neil if one could see into the future, knowing how the economy will behave, one could be very wealthy indeed.

    Neil, most experts from all sides of the fence are saying there is no budget emergency., Yes, there are adjustments that need to be made, into the future. Then, it is also a fact, that this is what governments should be doing all time. Yes, as Labor has been doing for years. Gently and slowly trying to bring the budget back to balance.

    What Abbott and co have done, could send this country’s economy into free fall. They are changing the whole fabric of our society. What is worse, they are attempting to do it in one go.

    From Hockey’s lecture in QT time to Palmer, he has shown he has no idea how the economy works. What he said was wrong. What is worse, he got the facts wrong.

    Neil, you might be comfortable with this government. I am not, I am scared.

  165. bacchus

    swan is the worst easily. And the Rudd/Gillard govt was a shocker, lying govt who did nothing but damage

    FU

    Why change the topic?? Stop being deceitful. I guess deceit comes natural for ALP supporters. I was talking about budget predictions and how they cannot be trusted especially when swan was treasurer.

    And one of my first comments was correcting a falsehood by you. The $667B figure was in an official document. It was in the 2013-14 MYEFO.

  166. The level of unemployment and underemployment is a much bigger worry Fu. As most credible economists will tell you, the problem we have is not enough debt. With low interest rates and spare productive capacity, we should be making prudent investment in genuine nation building infrastructure (like a real NBN) sith the aim of fully utilising this waste of productive capacity.

    We need a government with a vision for the long term, not one whose only interest is remaining in power, feathering their own and their corrupt funders’ lifestyles…

  167. swan is the worst easily.

    The treasurer who was named Finance Minister of the year, like another great Labor treasurer before him, and unlike ANY Lieberal treasurer?

  168. I have not changed the topic. I have explained the same thing over and over, in as many ways as I can think of.

    The figures that Hockey is yelling to one and all, have nothing to do with Labor or Swan.,

  169. There is only one document ever prepare only by the treasury. That is PEFO. That one draws a line under what Labor is responsible for. If they change after that, the responsibility is Hockey’s.. There was not $667B when Labor left. It was less than half that amount,

  170. Not only that, but things are looking extremely precarious in hte real world. The sooner the libs stop trash talking the economy, the better. I just want to know when they will be held up for the damage they have done.

    Capex (business investment) has fallen 8.5 per cent over the last two quarters – this is the largest six-month fall since Australia was climbing out of its last recession in 1993. Sounds pretty grim to me, acknowleding that it is from a high base.

    Between June 2012 and March 2014, Capex has fallen a meaty 10.1 per cent.

    http://thekouk.com/blog/capex-goes-crapex.html#.U4b-AfnoRIX

  171. “An official document under the name of the current mendacious treasurer Neil

    Fine. Hockey forged the whole document and altered all the figures.

    The 2013-14 MYEFO is still an official Australian government document. FU said the $667B figure was not in any official document.

    But i understand your feelings. I don’t trust the figures in Wayne Swans budgets

    The four years of surpluses I announce tonight are a powerful endorsement of the strength of our economy, resilience of our people, and success of our policies.

    Wayne Swan 2012-13

  172. Fine. Hockey forged the whole document and altered all the figures.

    Yes, that has been exposed to be a fact. (maybe not ALL the figures or the WHOLE document though )

    nil prefers his politicians to lie to him does he?

  173. I don’t trust the figures in Wayne Swans budgets

    The difference is, Swan went on Treasuries figures and estimates, whereas Treasury went on hockeys figures. Neither are absolutely correct (estimates being what they are) but one was politically motivated, the other not.

  174. Oi, NoS,
    ➡ “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness ”
    John Kenneth Galbraith…… tru dat 🙂

  175. …..and more importantly… how did you aspirational 1%er’s ‘fair’ in the “fudgedit” that Joe ’83 revisited’ Hockey has/is/try’n to foist on us all, NoS….. are you a winna, to quote John Jarratt .. or are ewe,ewe … :/ …*bleats*………*crickets*…….*whippoorwill*
    😀

  176. “are you a winna

    Typical leftie thinking. What is in the budget for me and stuff the country.

    It is one of the reasons why we would never have got our AAA credit rating back if Labor was not thrown out in 1996.

    We had to get govt debt down from 20% of GDP (left by Keating) to under 10% of GDP. In fact net debt was at approx 5% of GDP in 2003 when we got our AAA back.

    Labor supporters want this, that and whatever spent on them. What happened from 1996-2007 would never have happened if Keating won in 1996. Debt would have tripled from 20% of GDP to 60% of GDP but for Costello.

  177. So Neil gets his arsed kicked over at AIMN and comes here to pump the same ol’ same ol’.

    He just doesn’t change. Remains in his small brained rut and follows it unerringly no matter that it’s a rut full of bullshit and slow mud going nowhere.

  178. I got banned at AIMN.

    And did not get my arse kicked. Just correcting falsehoods.

    Like Costello continued to borrow money for no apparent reason according to kaye Lee. Costello continued to borrow money even though debt was zero to keep the bond market open. The borrowed money was then reinvested.

  179. By the way this is what Peter martin said is the reason why Howard/Costello continued to borrow money

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/its-the-debt-not-the-spending-why-the-budget-is-bleeding-20140503-zr3mo.html

    In 2002-03, when the Howard government no longer needed government debt, it commissioned a review into whether it should bother continuing to issue government bonds. The review concluded that financial markets need government bonds in order to price private sector loans. Without them, interest rates would be higher. And financial institutions are required by regulators to hold some of their capital in extremely safe assets. Without government bonds they would be struggling. So the Howard government undertook to ensure it always borrowed at least $25 billion whether it needed it or not. It invested what it borrowed in shares and the like, allowing it to boast that it had no net debt while maintaining a gross debt

  180. ‘Formerly no one was allowed to think freely; now it is permitted, but no one is capable of it any more. Now people want to think only what they are supposed to think, and this they consider freedom.”:
    Oswald Spengler – (1880-1936) Source: The Decline of the West, 1926

    “Modern man likes to pretend that his thinking is wide-awake. But this wide-awake thinking has led us into the mazes of a nightmare in which the torture chambers are endlessly repeated in the mirrors of reason.”: Octavio Paz (Mexican poet, writer, and diplomat, 1914-1998)

    “When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth, they will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest!” : Anonymous

    “You know your country is dying when you have to make a distinction between what is moral and ethical, and what is legal.” — John De Armond

  181. Neil, you do realise most of the debt that Keating has to deal with was left behind by Howard when he was treasurer.

    Neil, why does the past, blinkered view of the past obsess you so. You cannot change it, you know.

    Neil, you can influence what this government does or not do.

    Michael would be doing you a favour if he did ban you. He would not be feeding your unhealthy obsessions. Maybe then you could begin living into days world.

    Look at the calendar. It say 2014.

  182. I see Abbott is out this morning with Dutton, saying he expects his budges to be passed. This happens in all governments.

    Yes, it does Mr Abbot, but it still takes a skilful PM to get it through.

    Sometimes there are things in budgets that should not be passed. Yes, Mr Abbott, you like all before you will also have to face that fact.

    Politics, including budgets is still the art of the possible.

    All legalisation has to garner the voter of MPs on the floor of both houses to pass. That is what our Constitution says.

  183. “Neil, you do realise most of the debt that Keating has to deal with was left behind by Howard when he was treasurer.”

    No i don’t. Hawke/Keating created debt like all good socialists do. It went from 5% of GDP to 18% if GDP

    WE should learn from the past.

    The ALP only creates debt and trouble.

    The only good thing that Keating did was with Superannuation. But even that is not working. People are spending their lump sum payments and then going on the pension. So the govt still has to pay a pension.

  184. Neil. Keating was faced with a record black hole from Howard. Yes, a real one, not like the one this government is attempting to concoct.

    Neil, you cannot rewrite history.

    Sorry.

  185. Keating set us on the road to future prosperity……. and Howard frittered away that future on an orgy of pork-barrelling and ideological tax cutting. Howard created the mess we are in now and were in in 2007. Howard undermined his country’s future prosperity for his own political history…… but hey, that’s RWingers for ya…only interested in ‘self’.
    ‘It’s Time’ to wake up NoS…. real history and truth demands that ewe do…… baa. 😉

  186. “and Howard frittered away that future on an orgy of pork-barrelling and ideological tax cutting.

    I wish you lefties would make up your mind. Some lefties tell me Costello taxed to little. And some lefties tell me he taxed to much.

    http://thekouk.com/blog/the-highest-taxing-governments-in-australia-s-history.html#.U4lb9YUiit8

    “Here, in order, are the highest tax to GDP ratios that have been recorded. Here are the Top 10.

    RANK LEVEL YEAR PRIME MINISTER

    1. 24.2% 2004-05 HOWARD
    2. 24.2% 2005-06 HOWARD
    3. 24.1% 2000-01 HOWARD
    4. 24.0% 2002-03 HOWARD
    5. 23.9% 2003-04 HOWARD
    6. 23.7% 2006-07 HOWARD
    7. 23.6% 2007-08 HOWARD
    8. 23.2% 1986-87 HAWKE
    9. 23.2% 2001-02 HOWARD
    10. 23.1% 1987-88 HAWKE”

    So Koukoulas says that anybody could run a surplus budget if they taxed like Costello.

    I will assume lefties are pathological liars until proven otherwise.

  187. “and Howard frittered away that future on an orgy of pork-barrelling and ideological tax cutting.”

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_41.htm

    “The Government has delivered $47 billion of tax cuts in our first four years since coming to office. In addition, we have provided further tax cuts as assistance for the cost of living impact of the carbon price from 2012‑13. Even after accounting for the small increase in the Medicare levy in 2014‑15 we will be delivering total tax cuts of around $20 billion a year over the next four years compared to the 2007‑08 tax scales.

    Wayne Swan 2013

    Swan even has a column comparing his tax cuts to Costello’s bragging about how big his tax cuts are.

  188. “Howard created the mess we are in now

    But i thought you lefties said there is no mess?

  189. The biggest mess of the Howard government’s overly generous spending was its concentration on consumption rather than on improving the supply-side of the economy… what we now term as Howards “fiscal profligacy” NoS …. he won an award from the IMF for that NoS ( he also obtained the “worst treasurer” award as well) 😀
    John Howard got the country out of debt by selling assets, NoS, not by good management. Howards bad management implemented a structural deficit in the budget that is biting future govts (including Coalition govts) with his reckless vote-buying middle class welfare that is almost impossible to eliminate now he encouraged a sense of self entitlement by the right whingeing class…and thus created the ‘tax receipts MESS we now have NoS, mm…… ahh, if only we had given Paul another go 😦 …but we didn’t…. and as history has shown we are now in a ‘mess’ created by Howard’s wasteful years as Australia’s worst PM/Treasurer….. 🙄
    Now all that remains to be seen is ‘what’ the mess will look like after the continuance of the Howard ‘Mess’ legacy by his old stable mates in this current tea-party like Junta.

  190. Faced with facts leftoids resort total craziness.

    Howard/Costello ran $100B of surplus budgets AND $70B of asset sales.

    ie. they saved $170B in 11 years

    I am sure Deadbeat from Nowra will come in and say i keep repeating myself. I have to because you lefties are pathological liars

  191. Oh by the way

    LOVO is a pathological liar, like all leftoids

    THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY IS A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL POLITICAL PARTY ELECTED BY CORRUPT AND IMMORAL PEOPLE

  192. Nothing wrong with me. i just cannot stand dishonesty.

    LOVO says Costello tax cuts caused trouble.

    Stephen Koukoulas says the Howard/Costello govt was the highest taxing govt in history.

    Wayne Swan brags about his tax cuts but LOVO says nothing

    The Government has delivered $47 billion of tax cuts in our first four years since coming to office. In addition, we have provided further tax cuts as assistance for the cost of living impact of the carbon price from 2012‑13. Even after accounting for the small increase in the Medicare levy in 2014‑15 we will be delivering total tax cuts of around $20 billion a year over the next four years compared to the 2007‑08 tax scales.”

    Wayne Swan 2013

  193. Yes, Wendy he will. replacing advisory boards with paid consultants from such bodies as Is also likely to be wrong. Sadly it will be us, down here at the bottom that will pay.

    Tony Abbott will rue cutting advisory boards

    When the email came at 10.30 on budget night thanking me for services that were no longer required, I could hardly take it personally. After all, a version of the same message must have gone to hundreds of Australians who’d served on government advisory boards.

    Although I did think: “How bloody rude!”

    After the election, the Abbott government made no contact with anyone on the National People With Disabilities And Carer Council (NPWDACC), of which I’d been a proud member since 2008. Weekly missives from the council’s secretariat ceased.

    As we found out that budget night, about 70 government agencies were to be abolished or merged for an estimated saving of $470 million over the next four years. I pondered the loss of countless hours of human experience and knowledge, the value of fearless, frank advice, the silencing of a vast nationwide grassroots network and the end of an inexpensive PR service.

    I’m no qualified bean counter but, when you factor in the cost of engaging big bucks consultancy firms to replace all that, it sounds like a dud deal to me.

    The list of high-profile government agencies to be sold or merged is long. The lesser-known advisory bodies already abolished include groups working on sustainability, climate change, social inclusion, charities, homelessness, indigenous leadership, education, positive ageing, animal welfare, gambling, firearms, children and family, corporate wrongdoing and insurance reform.

    This leafy maze of committees, councils and forums may have needed some creative topiary, but the sheer scale of the cuts has reduced it to a bare stump

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tony-abbott-will-rue-cutting-advisory-boards-20140529-zrrxo.html#ixzz33HxLw4Xe

    .

  194. The comments on the above site, tells us, that many are in for a rude awakening, They actually see the pruning of these boards, as getting rid of a few PS.

    They do not see it, as a government not listen to the coal face, and shutting off all criticism. Maybe also shutting off, why people see as a good move on some actions they have taken,

    Every view that MP expressed, have been expressed many times before. The information that departments are eager to give, have been reject by many previous governments. One example is the so called co-payment for Medicare, Been offered to previous governments, considered and rejected.

    Departments, along with everyone else, have their per projects, own barrows to push,, that they are unwilling to let go.

    Sensible ministers listen then ask the obvious question, why has this not got off the ground before. They do not accept blindly, what they hear that fits in with their own prejudices and ideology.

  195. Neil, no one has said there are no problems. They have said there is no budget emergency. Yes, they have said there are problems in the budget, which by the way are found across the globe. Some of these structural problems can be traced back to the days of Howard and the excessive tax cuts, which benefitted upper income earners the most.

    Yes, Neil, there has been a transfer of money from labour to capital. Yes there has been a widening of the gap between rich and poor.

    Yes, Neil, revenues are falling.

    Why the obsession with blame, I do not understand.

    I am sure the Howard government believed they were doing the right thing. Trouble is Neill, all that government does, can have unseen results.

    Yes, lower taxes and government spending sounds good. It asppears though, it can also lead to the country and it’s people being worse off.

    Yes, we also get benefits from taxes and government spending.

    Makes the country a more civil society to live on. , Yes provides the infrastructure that leads to greater wealth for all.

    What is wrong with this budget, is that it is addressing problems that do not exist. It is taking from those who cannot afford to pay. Will increase the gap between rich and poor. Will lead to great debt and deficits.

    Is loading up the population with debts, that in time will pull them down.

    It is not true that government debt is bad, but personal debt is good.

    This government is not into good governance., They are transferring their debt and responsibility back on to the private individual.

  196. so neil, you would like to see more suffering to the poor and needy, and more riches to the mega rich ! Thats what abbot is doing, and yep that sounds just like a nazi lover to me !

  197. “Nothing wrong with me. i just cannot stand dishonesty.” ……say WHAT !! 😮 :/ 😆

    “LOVO says Costello tax cuts caused trouble”…… I never did ….even though they did…now, ya got that 😉

    “Stephen Koukoulas says the Howard/Costello govt was the highest taxing govt in history”…… tru dat 😀

    “Wayne Swan brags about his tax cuts but LOVO says nothing.” …. am now, mm…. one must wonder NoS whom were the recipients of ‘How I Love Ya’s’ tax relief’s, mm !! SME’s mayhap, mm!!!!! Ordinaries too !!! ….mayhap even our AAA rating(s)…. now ain’t that not nothing..NoS 😛
    …… anyhoo, on a more personal level… NoS, I am so sorry that you have been rejected from wherever you go on/in the blogosphere… It can’t be easy being so maligned…. you know, the ‘little lone’ voice ‘n all that….but rest assure, cobba, your ‘voice’ has been heard..here…at CW, many a time…. you have most certainly ‘honed’ the research skills of many a lefty/neutral ..here..at CW……. and I for one would like to thank ewe, baa, … THANKS NEIL…. (soz for yelling 😦 ) …. no, really 😀 😀 😀 😀

  198. NoS, you said this ” THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY IS A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL POLITICAL PARTY ELECTED BY CORRUPT AND IMMORAL PEOPLE”….. now correct me if I’m wrong, NoS… but, If’n the ppl elect an ALP govt. they are what you said, (Immoral etc)….BUT.. if’n they elect an MSM/IPA/LNP govt., then that’s democracy at work… 😮 .. is that right??…. am I reading ewe correctly???, NoS ???
    (an aside; ” Thank fuck you never taught at my HS, NoS… gawd 🙄 ) …just sayin 😉 😛

  199. Yep i said that. i will never believe anything an ALP supporter says without checking it out.

  200. A worthwhile read.

    Abbott’s X-Men: Protecting Australia from the invisible enemy known as Debt aka Deficit.

    The near-late Gore Vidal described America’s political parties in terms of parental roles. The Democratic Party was the mother; nurturing its children, softer, gentler and administering to all family members. The Republicans were the father; administrator of admonishments, stern maker of the hard decisions, the punisher with the feather duster to keep discipline and control.

    Australia has turned into one of the world’s most dysfunctional families; soon the Department of Community Services will need to intervene to take the children of the Commonwealth away from the care of the current parents (Abbott government) and place them into the care of a foster family.

    Perhaps the New Zealand government, or even Indonesia, might take temporary care and control of our citizens. Prime Minister Tony Abbott, Smoking Joe Hockey and Christopher Pyne have joined the X-Men franchise to protect the country from unknown invisible enemies only they see, the clandestine marauding monster known as Debt aka Deficit. Abbott has morphed into Wolverine, winking, blinking and smirking as his knuckles part to eject long blades to slash, slash, slash Debt aka Deficit. His closely-shaved muscular legs built for aerodynamic speed on bikes are sprouting thick bushes of wolf hair, and the transition of his eyes to yellow causes him to wink as the Wolverine takes host in his body. The Washington Post describes his transition into “the world’s most unpopular Prime Minster”.

    Pyne rises on his near-morphed hind legs, eyes flaring like nostrils, his head appearing able to spin 360 degrees at will to death-stare enemy journalists. Smoking Joe Hockey has grown uncomfortable in his own considerable skin as it transforms into Freddie from Nightmare on Elm Street, part alligator, part litigator, ready to eat everyone in his way and sue anyone too big to be eaten.

    If al-Jazeera describes Abbott as Australia’s George Bush, then citizens beware. The beneficiaries of free university education, initiated by that most feared predator dinosaur Gough Whitlam – which included Abbot, Hockey and Pyne in the largesse of a unified public education, for free, as a birth right – have now turned their claws and long nails on the very institutions that made them. These X-Men have stripped the heart out of the health system and placed the patients in leg irons. Pyne has risen high on his stiletto heels to gut Gonski and turn the school system into money-making institutions instead of a cradle out of which civilisation is created, educated and sent out into the world armed with student debts and as little education as the strip-down staff can stuff into their store-purchased educations.

    People don’t go to the doctor because they cop a co-payment, especially the sick, who are deterred from seeking medical assistance. At the same time, these untreated walking wounded are expected to work longer, until they are 70, if they live that long without medical assistance.

    On the other hand, our young people are denied unemployment benefits for at least six months after leaving the education system, presumably in order to teach them tough love. It’s something that has worked so effectively in the Abbott family with scholarships and grants withheld until the girls were in their mid or late twenties.

    Young school and university leavers are to get no unemployment benefits while at their most vulnerable. They could turn to crime, or worse, stay at home and become eternally infantilised.

    Hospitals will have to use double beds for the sick, like Abbott and the boys did to earn their Duke of Edinburgh awards and Rhodes scholarships.

    On the other hand, the rich will have to forgo paying wealth tax, mining tax and pay less tax as corporations, but slightly more as individuals. I think it’s been a long time since the bovine rich have paid a fair share of individual tax, as the tax structures of the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, Cook Islands and Hong Kong are low taxing for individuals, and corporations are listed as mailboxes.

    Under Abbott, the rich and poor will be eligible to juggle their income and capital to attract the least amount of tax. The middle and lower classes still think Cayman Islands was the setting of Johnny Depp’s Pirates of the Caribbean franchise.

    The government’s austerity program is not a rerun of Robert Menzies’ infamous “Credit Squeeze” because the Reserve Bank has kept interest rates low, but the intended beneficiaries cannot borrow because they don’t have the credit, or credit history or assets, to borrow. The rich have boundless assets to take wads of low-interest rate money and bid millions for houses in competition with the Chinese, who are buying the country, lot by lot, tanker by tanker, shipping it back to China, leaving Australia with big holes in the landscape and empty pockets.

    The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, paying for their sickness and expected to linger on working until 70. All are expected to pay for any education they want to pursue, and if HECS debtors die on the job, their estates will have to dig up their bodies and sell their organs. The merchant bankers never had it better. The rich corporations are growing exponentially while taxi drivers are working 24/7 to pay the piper.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/meaning-of-commonwealth-lost-on-tony-abbott-joe-hockey-and-christopher-pyne-20140530-zrt0l.html#ixzz33M0XHBwx………….

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/meaning-of-commonwealth-lost-on-tony-abbott-joe-hockey-and-christopher-pyne-20140530-zrt0l.html#ixzz33M0CjRpj

    Do we really want our society rewritten in their image. Do we really want the government acting as loving parents, handing put tough love.

  201. Neil. since the days of Thatcher, we have seen a movement, very successful sadly, that tells us if we cut government taxes and expenditures, it will lead us to Nirvana. land of milk and honey for all.

    When one looks at the state of the global economy, this has not happened, In fact the opposite has happened.

    Creating a unfair. uncaring society leads to disaster.

    Capitalism. left to it’s own devices does not deliver, and any more than socialism does.

  202. Problem is Neil, you check things out, then put your own meaning on them. Yes, try to make them say, what they do not. It is not the statements that are amiss, but what you try to turn them into.

    Yes, Neil, you are dishonest, but the only person you fool, is yourself. Neil. have you not noticed, that since 2008, not one person has come to your defence. Does that not raise the thought, that you maybe wrong.

  203. Neil. do yourself a favour, turn your attention to the above article, and tell us where the author has it wrong.

    Neil, obsessive behaviour is unhealthy. Will do you the world of good to move from the past, to now. More effective if you could defend todays government.

    Abbott is also learning vey fast, that the community has moved on, and no longer interested in what Labor did in the past. This is turning out to be a big problem for him and his mob too.

  204. “When one looks at the state of the global economy, this has not happened, In fact the opposite has happened.”

    I think you will find excessive debt is the trouble for countries like Greece, Spain etc. We should fix the hole in the roof before it rains.

  205. No, NoS, it’s the excessive loop holes in the ‘roof’ that are letting the rain in, …..what don’t you get 🙄 ….. whilst ewe RWNJ’s keep avoiding paying your fair share the hole will remain…… WakeTF up, NoS, take those ideological blinkers off…. reality beckons… 😉

  206. “……they set the new rules for just how petty and absurd and ridiculous media attacks on a prime minister could be. Just how low they could sink.

    Like raising holy hell because Julia Gillard was photographed knitting, for a feature in a women’s magazine. That hysteria-tinged knitting coverage in the Murdoch media lasted for days.

    Now they want everyone to lay off.

    They want the rest of the media to turn down the heat on Abbott and Hockey and their miserable budget.

    It’s not going to happen.

    They know it’s not going to happen.

    So they’ll just whine and plead, presumably, for what remains of Abbott’s time as prime minister (gone by August, 2014 perhaps?), and haughtily demand everyone else stop stooping to the levels they did. On a daily basis. For years. ”

    http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/stop-hysteria-demands-hysterical.html

  207. It’s like the hysterical Abbott as LOTO in parliament telling the measured and calm Gillard as PM to stop being hysterical.

    In the many bizarre things Abbott has done, and they are many and truly bizarre, that one sticks in my mind, especially with Pyne in the background being even more hysterical than Abbott. Gillard being collected as she always was had them in fits.

  208. “No, NoS, it’s the excessive loop holes in the ‘roof’ that are letting the rain in, ”

    There was no hole in the roof in 2007. The hole in the roof was caused by the ALP and anybody who voted for them in 2007.

    All the GFC did is accelerate what always happens under Socialist govts. The budget gets trashed.

  209. Yes, Neil, but whose excessive debt.

    Neil, if your income falls, you might find yourself with excessive debt. Well debt you cannot service.

    Neil, why does not reducing revenues by lowering taxes, adds to debt.

    Just how far can one go with the drive of the extreme right for lowering taxes.

    Yes, government expenditure can be seen as adding to debt. Could also be seen as a worthwhile investment in the nations future.

    Also Neil, who are these mythical taxpayers Abbott claims to be working on behalf of.

    I thought we are all taxpayers, yes e4ven those on welfare.

  210. HOWARD FUCKED THE ECONOMIC FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY, NoS….. ARE YOU FUCK’N DEAF… DUMB…BLIND OR JUST FUCKING STUPID, NOS……. YOU ARE LIKE A BLOKE IN A BOAT WITH ONLY ONE OAR, NoS……. and you wonder why you get banned everywhere you go 🙄
    …. IT’S BECAUSE YOUR A FUCKING DICK PULLA, NoS….. NO, FUCKING REALLY 😡
    P.S. Sorry for having to have to yell, NoS, but I figure that, ewe, ..baa…. have your head so-o-o far up your own fucking arse that you must be hard of hearing….. I suggest you remove said head from said arse before anymore shit leaks into (or out of) your, umm, brain…… ya total ad hominem-wit…..
    (Gawd this boyz getting jolly baity wit ewe, GRR… 😈 )

  211. “HOWARD FUCKED THE ECONOMIC FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY, NoS…”

    The economic numbers in 2007 were the best for a generation.

    The real thing stuffed was the lives of refugees. Under Howard we took them from UNHCR camps.

    Under Rudd/Gillard/LOVO/FU we took anybody with $10,000

    THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY IS A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL POLITICAL PARTY ELECTED BY CORRUPT AND IMMORAL PEOPLE

  212. @Neil of Sydney – you have a remarkably myopic and misguided, if not completely ignorant, understanding of Australia’s political history; of the nature, philosophy and actions of the various political parties; and of the impact of recent policies of each of the major parties.

    Your SHOUTING and that of others on this thread is regrettable, as is the name calling. In each case it does nothing to resolve problems or move commentators towards common ground – on the contrary, it entrenches deaf ears and unwilligness to work with those of differing viewpoints.

    There are ample viewpoints and evidence for them to whomsoever wishes to bother to look for them. The material for rational argument, consideration of evidence and sensible decision making and conclusion drawing does actually exist. We would be far better served if all those of us who are interested in an improved political system and pursuing a *better* Australia were to combine in reasoned debate and consideration of issues rather than slogan shouting and brick hurling. It does no side of the argument justice and puts off many who wish to contribute but don’t enjoy a disorganised melee.

    The evidence certainly does not support the assertions you have made here but I accept that, as long as abuse is hurled at you for offering your opinion, you are unlikely to change it. However, retaliation or revenge is unproductive. There are those on all sides of politics who welcome degeneration into opinionated argument for it ensures that rational consideration of issues is avoided. If we are smart, whichever political persuasions we seek to support, we would be better off not to fall into that trap.

    Passion is a wonderful attribute for activists to have. It is sad to see it wasted in either preaching to the converted, congratulating those who feel as we do, or in puerile displays of venom, sprayed generally indiscriminately and with false generalisations at whoever appears not to agree with us.

    The fact is that there will be commonalities among all parties as well as major differences. However, the major problem in Australian politics that does most damage to the mass of our population, is not the particular predispositons of the major parties but the unfortunate socialised belief of the majority that capitalism and materialism must necessarily be the focus of our political and social structures. Until we realise and act on the concept of putting people at the center of policy and recognising that money and resources (which belong to all the people – not the governement) are just tools that should be used to achieve well-being of the people, we will achieve little more than to enrich politicians and the legal and economic practitioners who service them.

  213. Roger, respect most of what you have to say.
    When It comes to Neil, most here treat him with respect. In fact, when it comes to Neil, we are very kind. Yes and patient.

    Neil since at least 2008, on this and sister sites, has been writing the same theme over and over

    In fact, I believe he cuts and pastes what he has written before.
    Every time, we end up at this point, with Neil throwing abuse at all.

    I have no idea what Neil’s agenda is. I suspect he does not know himself.

    This is one of the few sites that tolerate Neil at all.

    Why we bother to answer, is also a mystery to me.

    Thanks for your concerns.

    Will be interesting, if you can manage a civil conversation with Neil.

  214. Roger,

    As Fu says, Neil has a very long history of this trolling behaviour going back to Tim Dunlop’s Blogocracy in 2008, maybe even 2007.

    Over the years, we’ve tried to present reasoned argument to Neil, but he always comes back (over and over and over and…) to the same few talking points, even when he’s been proven to be absolutely wrong. In what passes for Neil’s mind, unless it comes from the Liberal Party website of from one of their MPs, it can’t possibly be true.

    If you care to look, this search can show you some of this history:
    http://tinyurl.com/ot5q3cf

  215. Thank you, Fed up. I am, perhaps, extremely naive, as in fact, some have accused me to of being. Alternatively, perhaps Neil is either ignorant or deliberately intends to obfuscate and divert discussion thereby wearing out those with the ability to rationally appreciate the evidence and verbalise or write it. Perhaps he is so misguided that he actually believes what he says.

    At any rate, I appreciate and accept your explanation. In mitigation I can only say that I was attempting to calm a situation that appeared to be only a cul-de-sac. I should, perhaps, have taken more trouble to investigate the history behind these exchanges however I applaud the fact that you have all persisted in attempting to allow Neil the space to voice his opinion and that you have even made the effort to alert him to the fundamental flaws of his assertions – for arguments they certainly are not.

    I stand, suitably chastened.

  216. Thanks for your kind words.

    Maybe we should cease playing the games we do with him. We do try, but he seems to suck us in every time. He has now been quarantined to Café Whispers.

    Gives us a chance, to get some what we believe to be facts out.

    After all, most of what is written on any blog, is only opinion or our versions of what we believe to be truth.

    A sister site, you might be interested in, A spin off from this site,

    The Australian Independent Media Network

  217. “HOWARD FUCKED THE ECONOMIC FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY, NoS”

    And people wonder why i am so anti-labor. The Howard/Costello govt was one of the better govts this country has had.

    The only thing that makes sense to me is that Australians have become too greedy expecting more and more from govt and that is why they got rid of Howard.

    I am also ant-labor because of the many falsehoods that their supporters make.

  218. Nothing intelligent to add ananda?

    As Fu says, Neil has a very long history of this trolling behaviour

    No trolling. Just correcting incorrect statements. I have to keep repeating myself because people keep bringing up the same garbage. Like when LOVO implied that Costello paid off most of our debt with asset sales.

    The one falsehood i used to see a lot was that JH changed the way unemployment was measured by introducing a new rule that you only have to work one hour/week to be considered unemployed.

    I have not seen that particular falsehood for a while. But it was mentioned for years.

  219. Yes Neil i have something intelligent to add, your nothing but a waste of time and space… pull your head out of your tight arse and see the world for what it really is.. all you see is shit, because that’s what you surround yourself with…. and shit is what you write here….now is that intelligent enough for you ? understand ? i think not! your a lamebrain and lying turd ! but of course nothing anybody says will ever sink in.. because your stuck up your own arse! understand ? i think not ? IDIOT!!!!!!

  220. Neil, I did not think I called you a troll. I think I said, I have no idea what you are about. Still that is not important.

    Neil, here is a good read, that might give you some insight of what is happening today, yes this government, not one of three PMs ago.

    Neil, this is why some are concerned. Has nothing to do with hate. Nothing to do with not liking Abbott.

    ……………..Sharp contraction

    Some of the foreshadowed policies are aimed to bringing that longer-term spending growth under control – changing the indexing method for pensions and scrapping Family Tax Benefit B and tightening the Benefit A means test. But on what the government has so far leaked, there’s still a sharp fiscal contraction for a domestic economy that is only just getting back to trend and for which with the full impact of the resources construction fall remains unknown.

    The all-important confidence question hasn’t been helped by Treasurer Hockey persistently talking the economy down, focusing on deficit gloom and doom and nearly ignoring the welcome growth surge we have experienced over the first three quarters of the current financial year.

    That better growth has long since meant the government’s December MYEFO (mid-year year economic and fiscal outlook) figures have been outdated, something Hockey has persistently refused to acknowledge.

    Steeper decline

    Aside from the improved growth since December, Shane Oliver expects tomorrow night’s effort to show a steeper decline in the budget deficit than currently projected in December’s MYEFO.

    He predicts a return to surplus by 2019-20 on the back of spending cuts and tax hikes, along with slightly more optimistic growth assumptions. (That would allow the Coalition to promise a surplus in its next term of government.)

    “The budget deficit for 2014-15 is likely to be cut to $26 billion (from $34 billion in MYEFO) and that for 2015-16 to $18 billion (from $24 billion in MYEFO),” says Oliver. “Additional fiscal tightening in the budget is likely to be 0.3 per of GDP for 2014-15 building to 0.8 per cent of GDP by 2017-18.

    “The main budget savings are likely to be a phased cut in the income threshold for family benefits from $150,000 to $100,000; tougher means testing for the pension; co-payments for GP visits; a further shrinkage of the public sector; the resumption of fuel excise indexation; a temporary 2 per cent increase in the top marginal tax rate which kicks in at $180,000; moves to increase the cost of higher education; a further increase in the pension age to 70 by 2035; and a possible delay in the start-up of the National Disability Insurance Scheme.”

    Adding to that fiscal impact would be the reported axing of 16,000 public service jobs when the previous government was already shrinking the public service through its imposed “productivity

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/federal-budget/a-very-strange-budget-that-wont-say-the-t-word-20140512-384rj.html#ixzz33Rh5yTw1………

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/federal-budget/a-very-strange-budget-that-wont-say-the-t-word-20140512-384rj.html?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=outbrainamplify

  221. “Howard and Costello left the budget in gross debt and structural deficit.”

    And people call me repetitive. You just reinforce my beliefs about you people. You are destructive human beings who do nothing but destroy people..

    But Peter Martin explains why we still had gross debt

    In 2002-03, when the Howard government no longer needed government debt, it commissioned a review into whether it should bother continuing to issue government bonds. The review concluded that financial markets need government bonds in order to price private sector loans. Without them, interest rates would be higher. And financial institutions are required by regulators to hold some of their capital in extremely safe assets. Without government bonds they would be struggling. So the Howard government undertook to ensure it always borrowed at least $25 billion whether it needed it or not. It invested what it borrowed in shares and the like, allowing it to boast that it had no net debt while maintaining a gross debt

    An amazing achievement of no net debt, booming economy, 4.3% unemployment and they got the boot by a bunch of greedy fools.

    Just think of it. Debt free in 2007, very few countries could say that and Cuppa says Swan would have done the same thing if in power from 1996-2007.

  222. sorry neil, i missed that last bit, could you please repeat that last post… all of it.. its not like i want you to be repetitive or anything like that : )

  223. It is so-o amazing how you completely missed the GFC, NoS….. is it because of your blinkers? ..or doesn’t the ‘fact’ of the GFC ‘fit’ your arguments? …. so you ignore Swan’s rescuing of Australia’s economy, for which he won a gong, to pursue a line of argument that has been discredited to death….. me thinks your bolts have become unhinged…. 😛
    THE MSM/IPA/LNP PARTY IS A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL POLITICAL PARTY ELECTED BY CORRUPT, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL, LYING, CHEATING, SELFISH, DELUSIONAL, BLINKERED, UNHINGED… PEOPLE…. (whom, evilly, differentiate between what’s moral and ethical and what’s legal 😮 )

  224. I’m not to sure if’n they even have one of those ananda……. which could explain a lot, mm. 😉

  225. Neil is missing many body parts.

    A couple of years ago Bacchus and I reckoned poor old Neil needed to gets his rocks off on a quick trip the the Cross. Neil jumps in screaming that he doesn’t have any rocks. OMG it was a fun night that one.

  226. Neil, maybe you can explain why it would be so good to be debt free. What could the country do, that we cannot do now. How would it change your life..

  227. That’s an absolute cracker FU. I think the very last comment on the reel sums it all up

    “Dickhead” indeed.

    And don’t we all feel like one now too 😦

  228. “The Federal Budget is being blamed for a drop in house prices and in new home starts as spooked consumers hold back from spending.”

    I knew this would happen. Any bad economic news is blamed on Abbott. However any bad news when Rudd/Gillard was i power was due to the GFC or world economic conditions.

    Do you people have any loyalty to Australia?? Just look at the economic numbers of the Hawke/Keating govt. And that was one of the better ALP govts. Results are always the same with socialist govts- debt goes up and unemployment does not improve.

  229. Considering there is no GFC or adverse world economic conditions (in fact, globally, things are on the improve), it must be Gillards fault

    Really nil, that is pretty poor, even for you

  230. …InAustralia, the Abbott government
    has taken steps to scrap the
    carbon price and replace it with a
    plan most economists consider ineffectual.
    Itwants to axe the $10 billion
    Clean Energy Finance Corporation,
    strip $1.3 billion in grants fromthe
    NATAGE A005
    Australian Renewable Energy
    Agency and has cutmoney from
    carbon capture and storage. It is
    reviewing the 20 per cent renewable
    energy target for 2020, with an eye
    towatering it down.
    MrAbbott has refused to put
    climate change on the agenda for the
    G20meetingAustralia is hosting
    later this year, amove that has
    generated disquiet with leaders in
    theUSand Europe.
    Australia is increasingly out of
    step with theworld’s superpowers
    and it is taking a position that is
    untenable for an adult government
    that says it is genuine about
    stopping globalwarming..

    http://readnow.isentia.com/Temp/56175/261441557.pdf

  231. Neil. it was Liberal governments that had stagflation. Yes high unemployment. High inflation. Labor has never managed this quinella.

  232. Considering there is no GFC or adverse world economic conditions (in fact, globally, things are on the improve),

    GFC was a while ago. You usually bring it out when it is useful to you. Now the Coalition is in power the GFC is now a long time ago.

    But you are right, Swan in 2012 promised us 4 surplus budgets. The days of deficit are over.

    ““The Federal Budget is being blamed for a drop in house prices

    Your glee at any bad news when the Coalition is in power is strange. There is more to your glee than sadness for Australia. You want an ALP govt no matter what damage they do. And Rudd/Gillard damaged the country.

    House prices go up and down. I guess the journalist is an ALP supporter.

  233. You can make that a trifecta by adding a third wheel to that quinella Fu – high interest rates. Treasurer Howard managed double digit unemployment, double digit inflation and double digit interest rates, ALL at the same time – quite an achievement! 😉

  234. GFC was a while ago

    Nobody said it wasn’t nil.

    You usually bring it out when it is useful to you.

    You mean like when partisan hacks complain about Labor apparently trashing our economy back in 2008? Hang on, that’s a while ago now isn’t it 😯 😆

    Your glee at any bad news when the Coalition is in power is strange.

    The quote you highlighted was from a newspaper article. What I am pointing out is that, because of this government ideological blinkers, our economy is suffering, not because of any outward influence but ALL because of ideological greed.

    House prices go up and down.

    wow 😯

    Mind you, so does the climate. Mind you, when there is an umprecedented spike either way, without any outawrd factor, we need to see what is driving it.

    AGW is C02, house prices is consumer confidence shaken from an ideologically driven budget. Got any other reasons? If not?

    I mean, it’s not like consumer confidence is down because of continual negativity from the opposition and their media mates is it?

  235. They’ve never been much for policy detail ROFL

    As of midnight May 31, the Clean Energy Act 2011 passed by the Gillard government sets a default target that is more than triple the previous 5 per cent goal.
    Under the existing legislation, the government of the day was supposed to have decided on an emissions cap to enable the start of a carbon emissions market in 2015. Since no cap has been set, a default target is automatically generated.

    ………

    Greens leader Christine Milne said the measure was inserted in the act to insure against ”a government like this refusing to set a cap”.
    ”It won’t have realised because it never put its mind to the detail,” Senator Milne said. ”By doing nothing more than we are already doing, we are getting to 18.8 [per cent] and if we put a bit of effort in, we can go even higher.”
    A spokesman for Environment Minister, Greg Hunt, declined to confirm the government had overlooked the default

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/australias-emissions-cut-target-triples-overnight-thanks-to-failure-to-repeal-carbon-tax-20140602-39esv.html#ixzz33XaDE3gf

  236. “The quote you highlighted was from a newspaper article.”

    But i thought you said not to trust the ALP hate media.

    “You can make that a trifecta by adding a third wheel to that quinella Fu – high interest rates
    . ”

    And how many times have you brought that up?? That was in the early 1980’s and you accuse me of looking at the past and being repetitive.

    By the way what were the interest rates in the USA at the same time?? In case you do not know if we have to borrow to fund things we have to get some of it from overseas. Therefore our interest rates have to be higher than the USA interest rates to attract funds.

    What were the interest rates in the early 1980’s in the USA???

    Stop being deceitful Bacchus.

  237. But i thought you said not to trust the ALP hate media.

    I don’t. But, I explained, step by step, above, the thought process for WHY. You haven’t even addressed that. Why?

  238. That was in the early 1980′s and you accuse me of looking at the past and being repetitive.

    ……….

    What were the interest rates in the early 1980′s in the USA???
    .
    😯 ❓

  239. Oh WOW! Nil of Sydney is back! Our best Fool entertains us once again! Welcome back Nil. I’ve missed your fractured and misguided logic, which is always entertaining, in an off-world sort of way. 😀

  240. TomR

    Bacchus/FU brought it up.

    In case you do not know unlike other some other countries if we get into debt and need to borrow money we have to source some/most of it from overseas. Countries like the UK can get most of borrowed money from their own people. But it looks like the USA gets its borrowed money from China.

    So our interest rates have to be higher than most countries in the Western World to attract money if we get into debt.

    That is why Fraser had double digit interest rates in the early 1980’s because interest rates were in the high teens in the USA.

  241. But unlike the USA and the UK, we actually have a Sovereign Currency. We Spend money into existence or we can borrow like the USA and the UK have to.
    Wake up Nil. LEARN.

  242. came running at the sound of the “bell”

    And this time, we didn’t forget the gravy 🙂

  243. Sorry TiB – can’t let that one pass 🙂

    UK & US are both sovereign in their own currencies – it’s the Euro Zone currencies that have those problems…

    The way CONservatives try to spin the story, to borrow money we go cap in hand to other countries in the world begging them for loans – it doesn’t quite work that way…

    We issue government bonds available for anyone to buy – we SELL debt, not go into the market trying to source a loan. The purpose of that debt is not so the government can spend – it is to drain excess reserves from the system.

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=3346
    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=10404

  244. “The way CONservatives try to spin the story, to borrow money we go cap in hand to other countries in the world begging them for loans”

    Well that is my understanding except for the CON bit.

    If we get into debt we need to borrow money from overseas. So not only is it debt, it is foreign debt.

    Most Western Countries can finance their debt from within their own countries.

    And we had high interest rates in the early 1980’s because the USA had high interest rates. So our rates have to be higher than the USA rates to get the money we need if we get into debt.

  245. Neil, it’s totally irrelevant who buys our debt (bonds on issue). You didn’t bother reading Bill Mitchell, did you? How do you ever expect to improve if you refuse to put in the work? 😀

    The conservatives also told ABC News yesterday [July 2009] that:

    … the country’s debt levels would be “dramatically” lower under a Coalition government. “Not only would we have borrowed and spent less money, we would have spent money more wisely, we would have managed the economy more prudently”

    The clear implication of the conservative position is that they would have had significantly lower output levels and higher labour underutilisation levels than we currently are experiencing.

    If I was the Government, I would have had a larger deficit and dramatically lower public debt levels and much higher employment growth than either of them. I would have told the population that issuing public debt $-for-$ is a voluntary arrangement that the government pursues to satisfy various neo-liberal constituencies which have dominated public policy and caused unemployment to remain persistently high for decades.

    I would have told the population that the question of public debt issuance in the face of rising deficits is a matter for monetary policy not fiscal policy. It is an operational matter tied up with the desire by the Government (via the central bank) to maintain a particular monetary policy stance expressed as a target interest rate.

    I would have noted that if the central bank desires a positive interest rate target and it doesn’t want to pay that target rate on the overnight reserves that it holds for the commercial banks, then it has to issue debt to drain the excess reserves. Otherwise, interbank competition will wrest control of the overnight rate from the central bank. Simple as that. The two alternatives are to pay the target rate on overnight reserves or let the target rate go to zero (as the Bank of Japan did for 15 odd years).

    I would have told the population (in my nightly economics bulletins on national TV and Radio! Fun times eh!), that whatever monetary policy choice the Government makes to deal with the operating factors arising from the reserve add coming from the deficit spending, the spending that I was making to underwrite employment and prosperity would still go ahead regardless. I would explain that none of these monetary operations (issuing debt, paying a support rate on reserves) has anything to do with “financing” the government spending. Children in the street would soon be noting that a sovereign government like Australia is not revenue-constrained and … they would be happier as a consequence. At least those children who were formerly growing up in jobless households.

    The population would soon realise that any inference that the debt issuance will in some way restrict public spending in the future is erroneous. No child would feel that they were the bunnies who were going to bear the burden of the public debt buildup.

    They would know, just like their parents came to know that if net public spending is insufficient, which it clearly is at present, then we are imposing burdens on the future generations in the form of lower income growth, less public goods, less skill development, and the rest of the advantages that come with continuous full employment.

    These are real burdens. All the financial hoopla is irrelevant to judging these burdens that we are leaving for our children to bear.

  246. “You didn’t bother reading Bill Mitchell, did you?

    At the moment i think Bill Mitchell is a fool and not worth reading.

  247. Because you’re such a giant intellect when it comes to economics Neil? You know better than this fellow? http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/bios.cfm?staff_number=1

    Name: William Mitchell
    Qualifications: B.Com(Dea),M.Ec(Monash),PhD

    Bill is currently the Professor of Economics at Charles Darwin University. He retains his position as Professor of Economics at the University of Newcastle. He is the inaugural director of CofFEE. He has published extensively on wage and price inflation, unemployment, modern monetary macroeconomic theory and policy, and regional science.

    He currently supervises 6 PhD students. He is on the management Board of ARCRNSISS (Australian Research Council Research Network in Spatially Integrated Social Sciences ).

    Research Interests:

    Markov-switching models of job creation and job destruction, Buffer Stock Employment models, the Job Guarantee, Costs of Unemployment, Phillips curve studies, Capital adequacy in banking, public policy, Large-scale macroeconometric modelling, Regional models of unemployment and Spatial Econometrics.

  248. Knowledge and wisdom are totally different things.

    He may know a lot but he is also a fool.

    Some of the most knowledgeable people i have met are totally useless wen it comes to practical things.

  249. I think his life experience probably trumps yours too Neil – Prof Mitchell is both knowledgeable and wise…

    He’s on guitar here:

  250. Neil,

    If you actually read some of Bill Mitchell, you wouldn’t be making inane statements elsewhere, like

    Debt does not hurt us say the lefties so lets see how big we can make it.

  251. Neil, this might surprise you, but I do care about what I leave my children and those who come after.

    Neil, I care about what type a country they find themselves.

    Yes Neil, I hope I leave a better country, that what I was born into,

    I want to leaved a nation with the latest and best technology that is available. That includes fibre to the premise, that delivers the communication network , essential for the rest of this century,

    I want to leave the infrastructure that allows them to take the country forwarded.

    A do not want leave an environment that we allowed to be destroyed by not taking action in regard to carbon emissions, I do not want to leave a mess, they cannot clean up.

    I hope the money we now spend, leaves behind a the best health and education systems, this wealthy country can afford.

    Neil, this means, e have spend. es, spend taxpayers money to invest in the future.

    Neil, I am sure if we leave the up coming generations these things, they will forgive us a little debt, that they will find easy to service.,

    If we do nothing, leave a country with infrastructure and technology that belong back in the middle of last century, they will curse us. More so, if we need carbon emissions free rein to wreck the environment.

    Neil, I have no faith in religion, but I do believe in loving your fellow man, I strongly believe anywhere I tread, better than found it

    Neil, debt is least of anyone’s cares.

    Debt is just a part of the money system, how an economy works Neither good or bad within itself.

  252. Yes, Neil, sometimes knowledge without the wisdom to know what it means, is useless. Same as you taking facts out of context, twisting them, to mislead.

  253. “If you actually read some of Bill Mitchell, you wouldn’t be making inane statements elsewhere,”

    The reason i know Bill Mitchell is a fool is that you follow him.

    Foolish people follow foolish people.

  254. Fine Neil, maintain your ignorance – it’s what you’ve always done best.

    You can keep your fingers firmly buried in your earholes, shouting LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA for the rest of your life – your loss 😉

  255. Neil, It is a fact, that you would find it hard to find any economist, of any colour that agrees Australia has a debt problem or budget emergency.

    Many are saying, cutting at this time is wrong. Many are saying we could, using your words, create a little more debt.

    Yes, t\here are structural problems,, but need to be dealt with over the long term,

    Labor has never said one should not practice budget prudency., In fact the last few Labor budgets where trending downward when it came to debt. Just di not get to that magic surplus.

    Looks like changes are coming to those in aged care. Yes, knowing this government, will harm those on lower income, over the wealthy.

    Sadly, was introduced over two years ago. Yes, supported by the government. From the first July.

    Looks like Victorian government has fallen Constitutional crisis in play.

  256. Neil, knowledge and wisdom should go together. Hard to have one without the other. Then from what you write, have no time for knowledge.

    One can have brains and sadly lack common-sense.

  257. Problem is that Neil is like many/all in this government, do not seek or listen to advice from anyone. They seem to know, where from one can only guess.

    Watching senate committee hearings only reinforce this fact.

    No answers to anything, but abusing Labor, whinging abut clearing up their mess.\\

    It is awful to observe the postures of P Servants that have to sit beside these ministers, Some actually shaking in their seats. Not from the questions from Labor, but to the answers they know they have to give,

    I believe there is problems between the Minster for Defence and some department heads. No wonder, after watching this rude and stupid man in action. I am sure there will be more that refuse to work with him,

  258. Neil, there is no wisdom without knowledge. Cannot be. You are saying you are wise, that you do not have to seek out knowledge, to back up your beliefs.

    Neil to be wise, you also have to be aware, knowledge changes, Facts can come to have different meanings,

  259. Roger, are you still around, You can see what one is up against.

    Neil, you are going too far this time. Neil, you are making a fool of yourself, that could destroy any credibility you may have,

  260. So Cando is selling off what is left of Queensland assets. What is worse, he does not intend to invest in new infrastructure, but pay off public debt,

    Does not seem prudent to me. It is like selling the kids beds,

  261. ‘One can have brains and sadly lack common-sense.”

    ABSOLUTELY.

    BILL MITCHELL is the perfect example. Along with all the deadbeats who post on this site.

  262. Neil, you bring up, as a starting point, that Howard had to clean up Keating’s mess, You say that Labor always creates debt. Well always, means you can go back the Federation. All I have pointed out, is that the Coalition is not bad, at upsetting the economy either. Can remember many horror budgets under Menzies.

    It was the trifecta Howard left Keating, that he was still cleaning up, when Howard beat him in 1996.

    Your wisdom, belief or whatever it is, that only Labor creates debt, unemployment, and I will add inflation, is just plain wrong.

    Yes, governments can make the economy worse, but in reality, they have little power over what occurs, All they can do, is massage the bad times when they come.

  263. wow and to think i had a tiny doubt that neil was not an idiot. he has totally confirmed to everyone here that he is a total complete utter moron ! he is abbott and pyne rolled into one !

  264. ananda1955 , even for Neil, it is amazing.

    Like Abbott’s answer when asked about the $80 billion withdrwawn from health and education

    I believe, Abbott does not see where the problem is with his budget.

  265. The more i observe right wing nut jobs, the more i shake my head in amazement at their indifference to anything that matters. Apart from their own warped and totally selfish views. They are just power hungry greedy bastards.. yes Neil i include you in this !

  266. ananda1955

    Looks like the feeling is mutual.

    WE had a booming economy in 2007 which you voted against.

    Too bad for the poor buggers in UNHCR camps we would have taken instead of the economic immigrants we took under Rudd.

    may you rot in hell forever.

  267. Thanks Neil – the fact that you have totally “lost it” and are now perfectly personifying the classic internet troll is borne out by your posts here, at the AIMN and at some other nameless site where I find it hard to believe they find you as obnoxious as we do..

    You’re a sad case Neil. At least I tried 😦

  268. NoS is the kind of a man that you would use as a blueprint to build an idiot… 😛
    [ -If there are any village’s out there looking for an idiot I would most happily recommend NoS…. and by the by and by.. if your village should be lucky enough to have an moving picture theatre, NoS is also an experienced Projectionist- ]…….. no really 😉
    …. in my copy of ‘Who’s Who on the Fifth Estate’, NoS is listed as What’s That :/
    NoS, I don’t know what makes you so stupid, but it really works. 😀

  269. Bacchus

    I have not lost it. I have been saying the same thing since 2007. Have i ever said anything different to what i have always said?? I am not trolling.

    Bill Mitchel is a fool. I know this because you follow him.

    Also the GFC just amplified what always happens under socialists. Unemployment and debt goes UP.

  270. When was the USA ever seen as a socialist country, I seem to recall, they led the downward path during the GFC.

    I have noticed over the years, whenever there is a global economic cycle, all countries are affected regardless of what the political colour is. Does not seem to matter, whether there is a right or left wing government installed,.

    Countries such as Greece did not cause the global financial crisis. They were victims.

    One has to look to the USA for the beginnings of that crisis. The USA is still in early recovery phrase.

    Yes, Neil, all countries at the beginning of 2007 were looking at a rosy future. Just tell how quickly this can change

    I have never seem anyone suggest, that socialism cause the great depression,

    As for Lucy Turnbull saying, we suffered badly because of the debt we carried,. Not too sure, that it was the demand by Britain, and our politicians agreement, that sent us down that sewer pipe. Not too sure, if Jack Lang had got his way, look after Australia first then Rudd during the GFC. Yes, keep people in work is the secret.

    Funny not long after, going into extreme debt for war, allowed the economy to bloom.
    I believe Rudd, and Labor are hated for success they had during the GFC. This goes against all right wing beliefs. There idea of stimulation, is tax cuts, that go mostly to the higher income earner, that do not spend, therefor the stimulation does not work.

    They cannot stand the idea of those at the bottom, being handed money for any reason.

    Even if the spending that money, keeps their business afloat and many in jobs.

    Does not matter what it is spent on in the short term. Labor in the medium term, did manage to spend money on worthwhile projects, that will stand us in food stead into the future,

    Labor over the decades has left behind many worthwhile projects, with the money spent, getting the unemployed after recessions.

    S)me that come to mind, is the Harbour Bridge, Expansion of the electrification of trains in Sydney from the great depression, From the days of Hawke and Keating, we have the beatification and creation of parks throughout western and southern Sydney, Milperra and Merrylands Garden are just two. Before that, to find a picnic ground one had to travel to the ocean or dusty Campbelltown Showground,

    The latest stimulation scheme was much, much more that HIP and BER. Every council improved their play grounds, Welfare housing was built, The list is endless.,

    Among the biggest transformation was found in our schools, The digitisation of the classroom , libraries, language and science lab for starters. Computerised white boards, computers in every lass room for kindly up.

    Yes, and for the first time, schools having a hall big enough to hold the school congestion.

    The trouble is, the then PM Gillard was able to achieve much, without fanfare, Just got on with the job.

    Neil, what in the hell are you trying to tell us. What you say, just does not fit with history, facts or reality.

    Yes, Neil Labor is not perfect, does make mistakes. yes Neil, they even do things I do not like.

  271. Bacchus @ June 3, 2014 @ 2:27 pm
    Yes, I am overly simplifying Bacchus, but where we, the Public, do own our Federal Reserve, The UK and USA don’t and are Privately owned. So are they “really” sovereign?

  272. Neil of Sydney @ June 3, 2014 @ 7:49 pm “‘One can have brains and sadly lack common-sense. [] Along with all the deadbeats who post on this site.”
    So you are including yourself in on that post Nil. Good to see you realise your comments are nasty and pointless malice etched on the Internet for all too see forever.


  273. Getty/Mark Thompson

    More bad news for the Government and the economy more worryingly as the ANZ-Roy Morgan Weekly Consumer Confidence Index fell another 3.2% over the past week.

    This brings the cumulative one-month fall in confidence since the Government began leaking its various measures and policies to a “sharp” 14%, which the ANZ economic team says is the steepest decline over a four-week period since the series became weekly in October 2008.

    That is quite a heady statistic when you think about it.

    When Lehman Brothers collapsed in September 2008, the Australian government was forced to guarantee all Australian banks around mid-October 2008. The markets went into freefall until March 2009.

    So to have the biggest cumulative 4-week fall in an index which includes the depths of the GFC will worry the RBA and should worry the Government.

    The ANZ said that consumers are worried about their financial positions:

    Respondents’ perceptions of ‘financial situation compared to a year ago’, which is most correlated with households’ spending growth, suggests consumer spending could soften in the near term. This subindex fell 3% last week and has weakened notably over the past two months. At this stage, ANZ’s bottom line for the household consumption outlook remains that consumer spending will improve this year, although the Budget – due to both the direct and indirect impacts – may weigh on the speed of that recovery. ……………….

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/australias-budget-has-knocked-consumer-sentiment-out-2014-5

    We have Hockey, crowing about good figures. Figures cannot have any responsibility for. What happens, if shortly down the track, those figures revere, as is likely, Will he be crowing then

  274. I believe that Shorten has gotten under the skin of the government. Very hard hitting speech.

  275. I wonder where this mob think the good figures came from. Definitely not from Swan making many mistakes. Definitely hot from Hockey. Not in long enough. .

    What we see from their first budget is a dramatic fall in business and consumer confidence. One only has to look around the local shopping centre. Simply no crowds, that were seen only six weeks ago..

  276. “Sorry TiB – I think you’ve been reading too many conspiracy theorists”

    No, TiB is a true ALP supporter.

    Telling falsehoods left, right and center.

  277. Cormann is trying to depict our economy is different formal others. Raving on about how we have to rely on overseas borrowing. Not sure what he is really saying, He was making excuses for all the normal budget modelling and comparisons, that do not appear in this budget, for the first time. Admitted some had been there since Federation, but they had wrong. Treasury official do not t seem to agree, had nothing to do with he missing budget data.

  278. “Cormann is trying to depict our economy is different formal others. Raving on about how we have to rely on overseas borrowing

    Exactly. If we get into debt we have to borrow from overseas because there is not enough money in Australia. Furthermore the interest rate on our debt is much higher because we need to attract people who will lend us money.

  279. Yes, education is not a privilege. Education is what will grease the wheels into suture prosperity for this fair land o ours
    We l benefit from having a highly educated population.

    ………….

    The education minister Christopher Pyne has argued that fee deregulation and a cut in public funding is actually an equity measure, because it recognises that higher education confers a significant private benefit on the ‘haves’ – the middle class kids who go to uni – at the expense of the have nots (who contribute to the enrichment through their taxes).

    Shorten tangles with this proposition directly. Higher education is public good not private benefit, he suggests. This is a dangerous dog whistle.

    Education is a public investment in the future of our country, it is not solely a private benefit.

    3.29pm AEST
    ……….

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/05/abbott-declares-the-spy-row-with-indonesia-will-be-fixed-politics-live?CMP=ema_792

    .

  280. Yes Neil, one has to change reality, to get legs for your policy. sadly no one else seems to agree with him. Could it be he, along with Hockey have the basic facts wrong.

    It appears that there are knop real commonwealth uni scholarships. Some outlandish scheme that has no likelihood of working.

  281. Doesn’t take them long. Just in power and the Liberals are throwing the country into deficits already. Howard did it for record amount after record amount and now this government is at it.

    Worst economic managers, the worst liars and the worst government this country has ever seen.

  282. Tunnel vision. A severe disease that all right wingers suffer terribly from. Pity they are completely unaware of it .

  283. Tony Abbott squawked today to his Canadian ‘self’, Stevie H., that no other countries are looking into Carbon Pricing……… geezus H., f’n liar 🙄 …… it ain’t rocket science; leave the shit in the ground………. we NEED to find alternatives ( No shit Batman )…… and we need the abbotts and the Harpers of this world put on trial for criminal negligence re: Cap ‘n Trade, oh and for bad walking style(s) and also for embarrassing their country(s) on the world stage……etc, eh.
    “I can’t recall Obama being as candid about the realities of climate change and what must be done to address it as he is in this interview. He goes on to say:

    We’re not going to be able to burn it all. Over the course of the next several decades, we’re going to have to build a ramp from how we currently use energy to where we need to use energy. And we’re not going to suddenly turn off a switch and suddenly we’re no longer using fossil fuels, but we have to use this time wisely, so that you have a tapering off of fossil fuels replaced by clean energy sources that are not releasing carbon … But I very much believe in keeping that 2 [degree] Celsius target as a goal.
    When Friedman asked the president to name one thing he would like to get done to advance the issue of climate action, he was clear about what that one move would be.
    The way we’ve solved previous pollution problems like acid rain was we said, “we’re gonna charge you if you’re releasing this stuff into the atmosphere. We’re gonna let you figure it out, but we’re gonna to tell you that you can’t keep dumping it out in the atmosphere and making everybody else pay for it.” So if there is one thing I would like to see, it’d be for us to be able to price the cost of carbon emissions.

    The president’s embrace of a price on carbon……..”
    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/06/08/3446271/obama-carbon-price/

  284. Peter coleman on QandA tonight. and old man now, former politician and right wing nut job. still suffers severe tunnel vision.. contagious to only right wingers thank god !

  285. Guffaw 😆 …. ” confronting my fate at the hand of The Law, and The Law doth ask me if my name is my name and my address is my address, to which I reply in the affirmative, and then I am asked, “Mr. Sharp. Did you throw a glass of beer at the Federal Treasurer, Joe Hockey?”

    “Yes, I did”, I say, “Only the beer, though. I kept the glass”.

    “Why did you throw beer at Mr. Hockey, Mr. Sharp?”, I am asked.

    “Because he’s a dickhead”, I say….. ”
    http://smellytongues.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/silly-buggers-talking-bullshit/#comments

  286. “The irony and the hypocrisy is astonishing and breathtaking – the fees that got jolly Joe agitated were miniscule in comparison to the debt burden – with interest – he’s currently proposing for students.
    And then comes the throwaway line that an arts graduate is going to make a million dollars more during the course of their career than someone doing electrical or plumbing work for the toffs of the eastern suburbs or the lower north shore.
    What in infinitely stupid, profoundly privileged man …”
    http://loonpond.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/to-answer-your-question-peter-brent.html

  287. Lovo, if you ask me hockey looked very shifty in his uni days. I think he was just in to feed his ego and nothing else.

  288. Steve, I think Joe’s the type that’s ‘always’- ‘on’ for a free feed….. in fact, he’s made a life/career out of it. 😉 …. but then again he is from the ‘snouts in the trough’ party…..the party that’s squealing like a pig caught with it’s pant’s down in regard’s to their budget lie’s ….well I’ll be dang’d and soo wee’d 😀

  289. I would understand this budget if we were at WAR with the possibilities of being invaded. Do you think the budget will include food vouchers for the pensioners and SS recipients? It as if I just woke up out of a long coma and can see the justification of the budget for our war strategies and efforts as citizens. I’m too old to join the armed forces but I will do my best to support the Village (Australia) of the Dammed. I just don’t want to wake up and find I am pregnant and give birth to a monster like our current Prime Minister and that woman who tries to run a bad school classroom called Parliament Question Time.

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