Now we know: John Howard had us fooled.

I’d prefer to leave John Howard in the dustbin of history, but when he comes out of his promised political exile to impart another of his pearls of wisdom I just can’t help but notice.

John Howard, as we know too well, likes to be noticed.

Do you remember him scary the living wits out of us during the 2004 election campaign about interest rates, in particular, how a vote for Labor in essence would be a vote for higher interest rates? He pushed the message hard, and won an election on it.

He famously said:

“It is an historic fact that interest rates have always gone up under Labor governments over the last 30 years, because Labor governments spend more than they collect and drive budgets into deficit . . . So it will be with a Latham Labor government . . . I will guarantee that interest rates are always going to be lower under a Coalition government.”

Yesterday he confirmed what many people have long suspected: that it was a great big lie. He was only fooling us. Yesterday he said:

“For anybody to run around between now and election day and say that a cut in interest rates means that the government has got the economy well in hand, they’re deluding themselves.”

I’m no economist so don’t know either way if falling interest rates are good for the economy, bad for the economy, or indifferent. This was argued yesterday. But I do know when lies are being told and I’m pleased that John Howard has finally – in an indirect way – admitted to his dishonesty.

As Kaye Lee pointed out at The AIMN, now Tony Abbott has abandoned the Liberal Party’s mantra that interest rates will always be lower under a Coalition government, yet, according to the Coalition itself:

The Coalition will protect the Australian economy from economic shocks and create the conditions which keep interest rates as low as possible . . .

I get the feeling that someone’s lying again.

Interest Rates

93 comments on “Now we know: John Howard had us fooled.

  1. Michael. Take a mature age Economics 101 course at TAFE.
    It is not hard to understand Labor has trashed the economy in 6 years. The RBA is concerned. Us the punters are concerned.You and the Whisperers are the only ones who think Gillard, Swan and Rudd are good economic managers.

  2. You mean……………..you mean………………… John Howard has been exposed as no different to any other politician!. Now there’s a surprise. Problem is in finding someone who believed he was, apart from yourself that is.

  3. Oj look, its that imbecilic Tory troll, Tweed, to spout his usual Menzies House propaganda. Take a look at the global economy, moron, & you’ll see we’re weathering the storm quite nicely, in spite of the economic vandalism of your Tory mates on the East Coast-vandalism that will be replicated at the Federal Level if Idiot Boy becomes PM.

  4. Oh dear, looks like the Fiberal Party have got all their loyal trolls out on the blog sites. In fact a lot of Right Wing morons believed all of Howards many lies, & continue to spout them as the truth to this very day. Now, be a good chap & piss off back to Menzies House.

  5. It is difficult to mismanage an economy which is booming because of the sale of mineral resources and agriculture, Even Peter Costello couldn’t manage that and was accordingly highly successful. Probabley the greatest economic and finance manager that Australia has known. But those managing the economy since the Costello era have certainly endeavoured to mess up a naturally booming economy by over-spending its returns and strangling the Golden Goose with taxation and over-regulation. I cannot yet have any confidence in an unproven Bowen, who already has the abject failure of Border Protection measures and immigration on his ignominious record.

  6. Michael Taylor – I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood what I said. It was that very few believed that Howard was different from other politicians. in not lying. Everyone knew he did just as they all do. You seem surprised when he finally admitted what most people knew. “I get the feeling that someone’s lying again” – just a `feeling” about the obvious and known Michael. Margaret Thatcher was probably the greatest masetro of the art, always failing to implement her manifesto commitments prior to elections, and introducing policies on which she had not campaigned at the elections – she proved the saying, “You can fool most of the people most of the time”.

  7. THE MYTH OF THE LIBERAL SURPLUS. That it was achieved by good Economic Management. here’s what Howard and Costello sold.
    IT WAS NOT DUE TO GOOD ECONOMIC MANAGEMENT.
    JOHN HOWARD LED THE WORST GOVERNMENT IN HISTORY.

    Commonwealth Bank: Howard And Floats 51% at $10.40 a share.
    Commonwealth Funds Management: trade sale that raised $63 million.
    Airports: sale of separate long-term leasehold interests in Brisbane,
    Melbourne and Perth airports generating gross proceeds of of $3.31 Billion.
    Australian National Rail: trade sale that raised $95 million. Brisbane Airport trade sale that raised $1.4 billion. 
    Melbourne Airport: trade sale that raised $1.3 billion. Perth Airport; trade sale that raised $643 million. 
    Telstra: initial public float that raised $14.3 billion.
    Adelaide Airport: sold to Parafield and Adelaide Airport LTD for $467 million.
    Darwin & Alice springs Airport: sold to Alice Springs & Darwin International Airport PTY LTD for $108 Million.
    Canberra airport: sold to Consortium led by the Snow Brother for $65 million.
    Hobart airport: sold to Hobart international Airport PTY LTD for $35 million.
    Australian Industry Development Corporation: trade sale that Raised $200 million.
    Broadcast Australia: Howard sells the SBS and ABC transmission towers for $650 Million.
    National Rail corporation and Freightcorp: Howard Government received $1.05 billion from Toll holdings and Patrick corp for it’s rail assets.
    Sold 167 tonnes of gold, returning just $2.4billion for the gold that was sold via a “single broker engaged with out tender”.

    IT WAS NOT GOOD ECONOMIC MANAGEMENT.

    I WAS A GOOD OLD FASHIONED LNP FIRE SALE.

    THE WORST GOVERNMENT IN HISTORY.

  8. Pingback: Now we know: John Howard had us fooled. – Australia Audio CD

  9. “It’s not about whether low interest rates are good or bad; it’s about lying.

    No its not. It is about the other side allegedly telling lies. If Labor tells lies you do not care.

    It took me a long time but i finally worked out what bugs me about Labor supporters. You support a team not principle.

  10. Fuck that rich coming from you Nossy considering all the unsubstantiated bullshit you post… go on surprise us post a link that isn’t a murdoch byline… It took me about 5 microseconds to work out your a vacuous, pamphlet paraphrasing political parrot…. And its not “allegedly”..its a consistent barrage of lies and backflips. Abbott is the worst offender, you cant believe gday from him…






  11. It is not hard to understand Labor has trashed the economy in 6 years.

    Funny how no independent economist or international organisation agrees with you. But I’m sure Alan Jones or Andrew Bolt would. They are experts in everything. Stunt doubles for arse clowns.

  12. John Ward, +1. Spot on. I’m going to bookmark that. Lieberal goons think that simply selling our assets and wasting a mining boom that occurred WITHOUT a GFC on their back, was financial wizardry.

  13. John Ward as I’ve sourced elsewhere Howard raised $72 billion in asset sales, wiping the debt with $16 billion to spare. He did so in a rapidly improving economy and on being handed good economic management, both of which he admitted to at the time.

    He not only sold off everything he could, he also savagely slashed and burnt in his first term, all at a time of the longest sustained economic growth period in global history, that started two years before Howard took power.

    Howard though swimming in revenue, so much so that if Labor had taxed at the same rate during the GFC they would have come out of it in surplus whilst still stimulating the economy, was to never wholly return the spending on those things he savagely slashed, though he promised to do so.

    Yet it was Howard who was the first to frame government debt as evil, something the right wingers have stuck to ever since as they subserviently repeat the mantra without really understanding why.

  14. Abbott lie: “Australian jobs growth is now the slowest in over 15 years” Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.

    Fact checked: There were 38 months in the last 15 years with lower jobs growth than now.

  15. It is nice to see the past lies of the libs coming unglued with reality. At the time, the low interest rates mantra was challenged, but no one in the msm cared. It is interesting that now, suddenly, ‘context’ is being applied. Well, good, better late than never. 7.30 tried to apply howards selective context last night. Luckily, Rudd was onto it pretty quick, presenting a fuller view of what is actually happening. It is just a shame he didn’t quote the actual words of the RBA, that would have ended the context 730 was trying to give in one fell swoop.

  16. More fact checking (from the Australia Institute):

    The claim: Australia’s debt to GDP ratio will skyrocket unless the government gets spending under control and reforms taxation.

    The facts: PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) did their own modeling based on earlier Treasury modeling which was designed to illustrate the budget pressures developing into the future. PwC acknowledges that its analysis “relies on budget estimates of future revenue growth and expenditure paths”.

    When the Commonwealth budget contains projections out to 2049-50 it uses tax receipts projections based on maintaining a tax-to-GDP ratio of 23.5 per cent, just under the 23.6 per cent in the last budget of the Howard government. PwC has borrowed that methodology. Projections for state and territory governments’ receipts are not discussed.

    Discussion of evidence: It is very important to distinguish between estimates or forecasts and projections made in this type of exercise. The Treasury work in this area generated projections that strictly followed the assumptions they made. They did not try to forecast the future economy or the budget parameters. Treasury estimates in the budget papers only go out as far as the budget year plus one. The later years are clearly identified as projections and they should not be read as forecasts.

    One of the key assumptions in making the projections was to keep the tax-to-GDP ratio at 23.5 per cent. However, in a growing economy tax receipts tend to grow more quickly than the economy itself—in technical terms the ‘elasticity of receipts with respect to nominal non-farm GDP’ is greater than one. Treasury discusses this and other tax forecasting issues in a number of places, most recently here. Treasury has actually pointed out that in order to keep government debt at 23.5 per cent of GDP would actually require governments to cut taxes in the future as they had in the decades previously (see appendix C).

    Since we expect a growing economy on average into the future and since receipts grow more quickly than GDP any analysis that forecasts continuous growth in actual deficits or debt based on an assumption of unchanged policy settings is going to be wrong. When talking about future tax options in particular it is inappropriate to rely on projections that assume the government will maintain a 23.5 per cent tax-to-GDP ratio.

  17. Another Abbott blatant lie on the carbon price:

    “Abolishing the carbon tax will take $5,000 off the price of the average new home.” Tony Abbott.

    The claim: The carbon tax has increased the cost of an average new home by $5,000 and removing the tax will decrease the price by $5,000.

    According to the ABS in the first year since the introduction of the carbon price ‘new dwelling purchase by owner-occupiers’ have increased by 0.31 per cent.

    Discussion: With the carbon price introduced in July 2012 we now have a years’ worth of data from the ABS showing the amount that prices for ‘new dwelling purchase by owner-occupiers’ have increased was only 0.31 per cent. It is important to note that this includes all price increases not just those associated with the carbon price.

    It is also important to note the 0.31 per cent is an increase in the price of a new house and does not include the land that is included in the HIA calculations. If we assume that a $400,000 house and land package includes a $150,000 house and $250,000 of land then a $5,000 increase assumes an increase in ‘new dwelling purchased by owner-occupiers’ of 3.33 per cent.

    Mr Abbott is likely to have overestimated the cost of the carbon price on a new house by more than a factor of 10. Assuming all the price increase over the last 12 months was due to the carbon price and that 40 per cent of the house and land package was the house then the increase due to the carbon price has been $465 not $5,000.

  18. “think that simply selling our assets and wasting a mining boom that occurred “

    See its comments like that why i have to repeat myself so often. Why do you say Costello wasted the boom?? And it only started in 2004 so he only got the benefit for the years 2004-2007.

    http://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/commodity-prices.html

    If anyone wasted the boom it is Swan.

  19. See its comments like that why i have to repeat myself so often. Why do you say Costello wasted the boom?? And it only started in 2004 so he only got the benefit for the years 2004-2007

    See, why don’t independent experts agree with you?

    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/346176/20120529/report-blames-howard-rudd-govts-wasting-half.htm#.UgLVVZJ9vng

    And a link from your bible:

    http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/per-capita-report-claims-australia-has-wasted-mining-boom-proceeds-estimated-at-200-billion/story-fnda1bsz-1226370915200

    Which shows Howard was Australia’s best socialist.

  20. After introducing the GST, Costello sat back while the asset price and mining booms saw his period as treasurer reap the highest tax to GDP ratio ever recorded in Australia’s modern history at 24.1 per cent. In 2010-11, this ratio was at multi-decade lows of 20.0 per cent.

    Peter Costello said in 1999, shortly after the budget and in reaction to a ratings upgrade for Australia from Standard & Poors.
    “This is a recognition by an international ratings agency of the strength of the Government’s budget policy. As the ratings agency announced, it’s a consequence of good economic policy and it means that Australia is again being regarded internationally as a very strong economy”
    He went on:
    “It also means that Australian companies will find it easier to borrow at lower rates. It will be good for economic growth and that will be good for jobs in Australia…it’s a consequence of long, hard, good economic work by this Government and it shows the benefits that economic reform will have.”

    Costello does not use such words now even though Australia’s sovereign rating is now better than back then and better than at any time in history, including the 11 and a half years he was Treasurer. Never once during the Howard government during which Costello was treasurer for the whole time did Australia achieve the triple-A credit rating from all major credit rating agencies.

    Finally, it is important to note that the Howard government never had an objective for the budget to be in surplus. On the contrary – in the 1996 Charter of Budget Honesty, the Howard government objective for the budget was “to maintain budget balance, on average, over the course of the economic cycle”. No mention of surplus. The “balance on average” means that an occasional surplus would be met with an occasional deficit – which is exactly how fiscal policy should be run when there is a business cycle to contend with.

  21. “We missed the opportunity to invest $75 billion in long-term productive assets.”

    That is the important sentence in your second link Bob, a very important point always overlooked by the right wingers.

    Howard in wasting the longest global and Australian growth period in history by throwing away billions in bribes to get reelected, an illegal war, government waste, program overruns and it goes on, blew the best opportunity we ever had to invest in this country’s future. Howard was the most short sighted leader this country has seen.

    It is the State Liberal governments going into debt to address that sentence that doesn’t worry me, but the likes of Newman wasting large slabs of money whilst supposedly undertaking faux austerity that does. Abbott is promising to do a Queensland, not a NSW or WA.

  22. The Howard Government gave at least $25 billion away in tax cuts and concessions, on everything from fuel excise to voluntary superannuation contributions. It used another $50 billion on inflated spending programs and various cash handouts, from thebaby bonus to the First Home Owners’ Grants.

    This profligacy had two damaging consequences. First, we missed the opportunity to invest $75 billion in longterm productive assets. We could have built a high-speed rail link down the east coast, or funded hundreds of thousands of skilled cadetships, or rolled out solar generation farms to power our mining and aluminium sectors.

    More importantly for the future, we have created a huge structural problem for our budget. The combination of tax cuts and spending growth left Australia ill-prepared for a change in economic circumstances. Most of the tax and spending changes were presented to voters as permanent benefits. No-one imagined that our tax take could fall by four percentage points of GDP in the three years from 2008 to 2011. Yet when this happened, a structural imbalance appeared in our Budget which will take years to redress.

  23. …objective for the budget was “to maintain budget balance, on average, over the course of the economic cycle”

    Another important point. As Howard shifted debt from public sector to the private sector, the longest sustained growth period continued on unabated and then the mining boom kicked in, Howard was rolling in revenue Costello could not keep count of from one month to the next. He was often billions out in underestimating revenue. Still the Howard government managed one deficit, that surprised everyone.

    The shift to private debt can clearly be seen during the Howard years. Any graph of the period shows a sudden steep upward trend of private debt that was completely unsustainable, something Costello himself flagged several times but Howard ignored.

    If Howard was such a good economic manager then Australia would dozens of long term infrastructure projects, productivity gains and a considerable wide scoping skills base to show for it. That we had none of those things when Howard was kicked out is very telling indeed.

  24. Which shows Howard was Australia’s best socialist.

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_46.htm

    Costello saved $16B+$17B+$20B=approx. $50B saved in his last three budgets. If he had saved any more there would have been rioting in the streets. In contrast Swan has not saved one cent.

    Never once during the Howard government during which Costello was treasurer for the whole time did Australia achieve the triple-A credit rating from all major credit rating agencies.

    So what?? We got our AAA back in 2003. That is when Australia companies and govt was allowed to borrow at the lowest interest rates. There is no advantage in getting a AAA from Fitch. Its only advantage is for propaganda purposes by Labor supporters.

    And it should never be forgotten that it was Hawke/Keating who lost our AAA.

  25. Like the trickle Cigarette Tax that won’t stop cigarette smokers smoking, the trickle collapse of the interest rate won’t help kick start the economy, if you have a house you’ll continue to pay it off to avoid the housing wreck caused by the Ratings agencies that Labor points to as saying they are so good.

  26. Neil you seem to miss the point. Selling off assets at rock bottom prices lowers your earning potential for the future. Spending money on tax concessions for the wealthy and middle class welfare sets you up for structural deficit in the future when revenue inevitably goes down. It’s HOW he paid off the debt and WHAT he spent the surplus on that is the problem. He ignored infrastructure, cut health and education, tightened up welfare for our most needy, whilst allowing the wealthy to do things like put 1 million dollars into superannuation TAX FREE.

  27. The Fed’s hope, according to economists, is that publishing the predictions will reduce the uncertainty that consumers and businesses face over the future level of interest rates. While some Fed watchers cautioned that publishing the individual forecasts of all 10 members of the FOMC risked only confusion in financial markets, the move was broadly welcomed.

  28. Does Neil ever get the point. I believe Neil is a fraud, as one could not be so thick.

    I worked with the intellectual handicapped for years. They even got the message after time.

  29. We now read, that the Opposition, if they get into power, and looking at Bishop’s body language last night. they are already are there, that they will not be releasing the number of boats that come. Is that why Howard was so successful. We just were not told abut boats that did come.

  30. Selling off assets at rock bottom prices lowers your earning potential for the future.”

    Costello wanted to get our AAA rating back which we lost under Hawke. A quick reduction in debt is the way to do it. AAA which we got back in 2003 means companies and govt can borrow money at lower interest rates.

    “He ignored infrastructure, cut health and education,”

    I don’t think this is true.

  31. Neil misses point “DELIBERATELY”. You don’t really expect such people to actually “get” the point. I often wonder if these people are paid for their “work”.
    They just keep repeating the same “points” (very often lies). As for h-quin: plain package labelling finally got me to stop smoking after 50 years. What will the tax do? Actually get the data 5 years down the track – don’t make up your own projections to suit your politics.

  32. “The Howard Government gave at least $25 billion away in tax cuts

    But Kaye Lee your hero Mr Swan gave away even more.

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_41.htm

    The Government has delivered $47 billion of tax cuts in our first four years since coming to office. In addition, we have provided further tax cuts as assistance for the cost of living impact of the carbon price from 2012‑13. Even after accounting for the small increase in the Medicare levy in 2014‑15 we will be delivering total tax cuts of around $20 billion a year over the next four years compared to the 2007‑08 tax scales.”

  33. It’s HOW he paid off the debt and WHAT he spent the surplus on that is the problem.

    Bingo. And they were our assets and money Neil. Who gives a crap if he paid debt off with it? He sold our assets, ones that made us money or we depended on heavily and lieberal nutters always make out Howard and Costello were some masters of our economy, when in reality they just sold our furniture. Would you credit Rudd for being a master of our economy if he went and sold every other asset we had to put us into surplus? Do you agree that baby bonus, fhog, ppl are socialist policies?

    Hell, no.

  34. “Would you credit Rudd for being a master of our economy if he went and sold every other asset we had to put us into surplus?

    Man you people are the most dishonest people i have ever met.

    COSTELLO ASSET SALES WERE NOT PUT INTO THE BUDGET AS REVENUE!!!!!!

  35. Neil, and was condemned for doing so. One election promise he should not have made. Might not have been so bad, if one seen the GFC, which is still causing trouble six years later..

    At least Rudd was quick to change what he was doing when the situation changed. Very quick, as it meant dumping any hope of a surplus.

    I feel the Coalition will go after that surplus, regardless of economic situation at the time.

    I would love to see Labor drop the word surplus, and say they will govern according to the needs of the economic situation at the time. That they would do what is neccesary.

  36. Neil, the money from sales was not put into new infrastructure either.

    Yes, the money should have been invested in Australia. It was not, It was handed out in tax cuts and pork barreling.

  37. Man you people are the most dishonest people i have ever met. COSTELLO ASSET SALES WERE NOT PUT INTO THE BUDGET AS REVENUE!!!!!!

    O…m…f…g. Who is this ignorant fool? If it’s not the ignoring the GFC and Howards asset sales, it’s totally ignoring what people have said and just creating crap from thin air. It’s the Lieberal way I’m sure. This dude has to be a paid Lieberal blogger to ignore so many comments and to continually go off on his own deluded rants.

    Kaye said It’s HOW he paid off the debt & I said Who gives a crap if he paid debt off with it? He sold our assets . Others said you miss the point and are doing so deliberately.

    Can you see those words kneel? Ffs. He sold the assets fool. He sold the assets, he sold the assets.

    If Rudd did the same thing as Howard and sold shit loads of assets to get rid of our debt, would you credit him with being an economic genius? Plus used the money as middle class socialist handouts…..genius?

  38. Bob

    Costello ran surplus budgets which paid off all our govt debt WITHOUT the sale of assets.

    Extra money from asset sales was put into a new creation called the FUTURE FUND.

  39. Wow a link by the liar Steve Koukamaniac.

    Of course Neil. Anything that doesnt fit your views has to be lies.

  40. By the way Bob, i don’t believe anything said by Koukouloulis, Peter Martin, Bernard Keane, Alberici, John Quiggin and some others.

    The fact is all govt debt was paid off because Costello ran surplus budgets. That means he spent less than he got in revenue.

    Asset sales eventually ended up in the $70B Future Fund.

    Labor supporters are fools.

  41. So kneel, asset sales to the future fund, which was set up for the superannuation of public sector, government employees, not back to the Australian people, just what howard and costello would do.

  42. Well Govt employees Superannuation was unfunded until Costello started the Future Fund. It was paid out of general revenue when a govt employee retired.

    It should be noted that most of these govt employees were people in the Army, navy, Airforce, Federal Police, PUblic Service etc. Politicians make only a small percentage of PS workers.

  43. No paul only a part went to the Future Fund, a lot more was wasted and they left Australia a lot poorer.

  44. I don’t read or respond to him, not worth it.

    And let us not forget outside of the waste of billions in record revenues thrown away for the short term goal of winning elections to the detriment of the long term good of Australia there was the waste in going to an illegal war and selling our gold reserves for a song that has lost us billions.

    The list of Howard’s lost opportunities and screwed up wasteful reign is long and shameful with history revealing it is such.

    Though it will be way too late the 30 year release of Howard years of secret documents will be damning indeed, especially the revelations on the Iraq war.

  45. Listen leftoids Costello ran surplus budgets of $100B from 1996-2007 none of which had revenue from asset sales. Costello also started the Future Fund which has $70B.

    That $100B saved plus $70B in the FF was a combination of surplus budgets and asset sales. A total of $170B saved in 11 years.

  46. Also kneel, why didn’t Howard and Costello reinvest that 100 Billion back into the country via infrastructure.

  47. Where did Howard and Costello put all the money then kneel??????,

    Because when labor came to power, you have said there was 20 Billion. where did the rest go then kneel.

  48. “Where did Howard and Costello put all the money then kneel??????,

    You know Paul people say i repeat myself. You know what, I am also getting sick of saying the same things again and again.

    The $100B in surplus budgets was used to pay off the $96B of debt he inherited in 1996. That plus asset sales meant we had no debt and $70B in the FF.

    Not only that he did invest in infrastructure.

  49. Ok kneel, what infrastructure.

    And kneel the from one of the links above.

    The $96 billion “Labor debt” inherited by the Howard Government in 1996 comprised $39.9 billion of Fraser Government debt that carried through the Hawke/Keating period meaning that the true level of Labor debt in 1996 was $56 billion. To pay that $56 billion off, the Howard Government sold almost $72 billion of Government assets meaning the move to negative net debt was not really due to any miraculous and bold fiscal settings, but owed everything to a series of asset sales.

    Now if you have proof otherwise, please provided the links, but we doubt that you will.

  50. “And kneel the from one of the links above”

    Total bunch of lies. Stephen Koukoulis is a liar and a fraud.

    “Now if you have proof otherwise

    Proof about what??

  51. Are you talking about this??

    “The $96 billion “Labor debt” inherited by the Howard Government in 1996 comprised $39.9 billion of Fraser Government debt

    This is a load of crap by Koukoulis

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2006-07/overview/html/overview_33.htm

    Nebt debt is on the right side. It was $16B in 1983-84 and increased to $29B in 86-87. It dropped and then increased to $96B in 1996-97.

    Please show me where the $39.9B of Fraser govt (1983) debt is in the Table.

    Koukoulis is an evil man.

    And govt debt was paid off by a combination of asset sales and surplus budgets. Koukoulis, the evil one, completely ignores the $70B in the FF.

    What a FRAUD and TOTALLY EVIL MAN is KOUKOULIS.

  52. Neil, you are proof……. 🙄
    Thanks… again… Neil… for showing the readers here how not to be….. 😛
    I mean, we can talk, walk and paint a thousand pictures as to the ‘whys’ not to listen to and/or vote LNP…. but,.. in very few words,you provide proof as to the ‘why’ not, ..again , thanks.. 😛
    ….. and by the by and by… you have been sooo p*wned tonight 😀 😆 …. but, hey, don’t let that discourage you…. 😉 … after all… we, here at the Cafe,.. “know” .. that John Howard had you fooled 😯 … and now your ideological blind support for Tony is making you look like a fool…. and/or more foolish than you ‘normally appear’ 😛 …… sad really 😦

  53. …. and Howard lost his seat 😆 😆 😆 ….. still funny after all these years 😉 .. just say’n 😛

  54. Yes kneel, you might want to do some maths and you will find it, just like all liberal trolls, they cannot add up.

  55. Neil, Howards socialist handouts………you wont talk about them…..why? You keep diverting.

    Selling the gold and telstra among other things, you wont say if that was a good or bad thing…..why?

  56. “Yes kneel, you might want to do some maths and you will find it

    Find what?? That Koukoulis is a fraud?? I already know that.

    “Selling the gold and telstra among other things, you wont say if that was a good or bad thing…..why?

    Selling gold was a mistake, as for Telstra- i don’t know. But it has to be looked at in the context of getting our AAA back. We lost it under Hawke and a quick paydown of debt was the best way to get it back. You know if Labor does not so badly trash the budget the Conservatives would not be so keen to sell things.

  57. We really must talk about all these lies
    ……
    The International Monetary Fund estimates Australia’s income per person at US$67,983 for 2012 — an all-time high. This places Australia fourth among the 34 wealthy members of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), behind small mega-rich Luxembourg, Switzerland and Norway.

    Credit Suisse measures Australia’s median wealth as highest in the world.

    Australia’s taxation level is among the world’s lowest. The tax take as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) reached an all-time high in Australia in 2004, under former Prime Minister John Howard, at 25.0%. By 2011/12, it was just 21.6%.

    Several comparable countries have tax rates above 43%, including Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Belgium and France.

    Australia since 2011 has enjoyed triple A sovereign debt ratings with the three international agencies, Fitch, Moody’s and Standard and Poors. Only five nations have triple A and a positive outlook with all three.

    Reaffirming the rating this year, Fitch commended Australia’s ‘credible macroeconomic policy framework’ and governance standards ‘among the world’s strongest’.

    Labour productivity has boomed recently — rising for nine consecutive quarters to an all-time high and laying to rest a persistent criticism

    http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/we-really-must-talk-about-all-these-lies/

  58. For all of the Howard’s era of ranting on about productivity and the need for WorkChoices to address that problem, this was yet another in a long list of Howard failures.

    AWAs were introduced by Howard in the Workplace Relations Act 1996 and productivity increased when they were removed by Rudd. I think that tells you something.

  59. How long before they roll out Jim Sorley, Mike Rann and other losers? I wonder? Will the Ruddidiot ring Combet, Crean, Garrett, Gillard or Emerson and ask them to hang on? Maybe he’ll roll out Kylie Minogue…pmsl. The ALP campaign is rapidly being reduced to a farce. Gillard must be absolutely pissing herself in mirth.

  60. I notice the lefties have been promoting this article

    http://www.theage.com.au/business/nab-chief-denounces-deficient-debt-debate-20130801-2r2e0.html

    National Australia Bank chief executive Cameron Clyne said we had a ”unique window” as a AAA-rated country to issue more government debt to fund desperately needed infrastructure.

    ”Australia has a debt problem: we don’t have enough,” Mr Clyne said on Thursday.”

    But down the bottom it says this

    “‘We could borrow up to 3 to 4 percentage points of GDP without imperilling our AAA rating, as long as it was for rigorously evaluated and well-targeted infrastructure spending.

    3 to 4 percentage points?? That is just one Wayne Swan deficit budget. Which means we will be in danger of losing our AAA some time late next year.

  61. we will be in danger of losing our AAA some time late next year.

    Did you read the ia link nil?

    Yet Australia’s net borrowings as a percentage of GDP are currently just 11.6% — and declining.

    😉

  62. How many inquiries has Abbott now saying he will call. Now a judicial inquiry re pink batts. We have numerous audits and productivity inquiries as well.
    I thought the man was reducing the PS. e have the builders legislation being bought back.

    Chris Bowen ABC 24

  63. …………….Liberal spin doctors have provided journalists covering Kevin Rudd’s campaign with a list of questions they would like asked of the Prime Minister.

    An email containing advises journalists to ask about his pink batts stimulus program, Deputy Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s drink with suspended Labor MP Craig Thomson, and whether or not the Australian Workers’ Union is behind the plot to parachute former Queensland premier Peter Beattie into the federal seat of Forde.

    The questions wrongly name the grieving parents of Matthew Fuller – who died installing insulation under the Rudd Government’s stimulus program – as the Fosters.Â

    The email was sent from an anonymous staffer via the Liberal party’s campaign headqua………….

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/18429811/liberal-spin-doctors-give-journalists-their-top-5-questions-for-kevin-rudd/

  64. Does anyone live near that business in the Griffith electorate. Do they know what they were doing for thirty years. Where they in roof insulation. Does anyone know what they are doing now.

    This is over four years down the track, and homes were insulated before the scheme, and continue to be after., Why would not any business dispose of stock, they cannot used.

    How big is that stack really. How long has it been there.,

    Sorry,. the story does not ring true.

    Establish firms, one would believe would revert to previous operations.

    Personally, another inquiry would only clear Garrett. One needs to remember, beside all external requirements, to has been done to death at Senate Hearings.The truth is there is no evidence to support the allegations.

    I believe it is shocking to use four deaths, as political fodder. They were so concerned, they could not get the names right. All the parents are going to find out, is that the workers ignored safety directions.

    All contracts included the clause that all state health and safety laws had to be adhered to. Yes, the Feds met their legal obligations with this clause.

    Same as the Opposition is attempting to remove the responsibility of dealing with asbestos in their pits, from Telstra to NBNCo. Sorry, Telstra owns the pits and ducts. Telstra employs the workers. Have been doing this for decades, ;long before the NBNCo existed.

  65. Only three minutes allowed for opening statements on Sunday. Is that to allow for Abbott’s three word slogans. Did not Carr and Bishop start off with five.
    The rest must be answering questions. Wonder what the time limit is on answers.

  66. I am sick and tired of LNP negativity and lies! They must think we are stupid or something, and keep telling me and the rest of the country that our nation is being economically mismanaged and is worse now than it was in 2007 when your lot got the flick. Here are a few facts:

    Of the 37 measures of economic wellbeing, Australia is ahead of where it was in 2007 on 26. It is about equal on 4. The position on the other 7 has been a deterioration relative to Australia in 2007, BUT A STRONG ADVANCE relative to the rest of the world since 2007 and the GFC.
    The International Monetary Fund estimates Australia’s income per person at US$67,983 for 2012 — an all-time high. This places Australia fourth among the 34 wealthy members of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), behind small mega-rich Luxembourg, Switzerland and Norway.

    Credit Suisse measures Australia’s median wealth as highest in the world.

    Australia’s taxation level is among the world’s lowest. The tax take as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) reached an all-time high in Australia in 2004, under former Prime Minister John Howard, at 25.0%. By 2011/12, it was just 21.6%.

    Its not a question of functionality, my point is i am tired of negative lies and bullshit, with no alterntive policy proposal, other than a 30 odd page brochure with “our plan” written on the front cover (whats inside who knows, probably just doodles of “cock-n-balls” cos we certainly havent seen any alternative policy fall from the pages) . And Ah the old “dysfunctional” argument. Let me steal the writings of another: Fact is, we are the envy of every nation on the planet. By any global measure we are kicking goals while the rest of the developed world is sinking into the abyss, but our media’s reportage remains a cavalcade of negative invective. According to the press gallery our government is “in disarray”, “dysfunctional”, “in crisis”, “under siege”, “beleaguered”, “all waste and mismanagement”. But once again, when you peel back the hyperbole and look at the reality, the picture presented by the media is far from true.

    If you look at what the Government has actually achieved from a minority position, it has been staggeringly successful. We have a carbon tax which, to spite all the insane doomsday prophecies, has not caused the sky to fall in, and many low earners are finding that they are actually better off with the tax cut that came with it. (funnily enough Abbott doesnt want to take away the compensation to families because that would be political suicide) and this soon be replaced by an ETS which we would of had 3years ago had we of not had a minority government in place. Are sensible people really going to support Abbotts “tree planting program” over an ETS that will create an economically driven behavioural reform (which really should have been a conservative idea). We also now have a clean energy industry that boasts $29 billion a year in revenue and employs 53,000 people. We have, an NBN well underway (one that will actually benefit the country instead of risking the profits of Foxtel) we have the NDIS coming, and we have the Gonski reforms to look forward to. These are all solid, tangible runs on the board — and all with an eye fixed firmly on the future of our nation. With all this going on, it’s not hard to understand why the rest of the world is totally baffled by our hatred of all things Gillard Government.

    Why are we so convinced, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, that this Government is a shocker and has to go? The Murdoch/NLP strategy is simple enough — repeat the lie so often until it is generally perceived to be the truth.

    Case in point: “Government stimulus was all waste and mismanagement”. The fact is one of the world’s top economists, Nobel Prize laureate and Professor at New York’s Columbia University Joseph Stiglitz said that:

    “Australia’s stimulus, as rolled out during the GFC was among the best designed in the world.”

    We have the lowest rate of unemployment in the OECD, we have the highest growth, we have one of the lowest debt/GDP ratios, we have just hit 21 years of consecutive economic growth.

    And as for national debt, again lets put that in perspective. Yet again another Hockey pile of steaming turd. Australian national debt as a percentage of GDP is 11.64%. Lets make a few comparisons; Canada 34.57%, UK 82.78%, USA 107.86%, Switzerland 28.27%, Spain 71.93%, NZ 26.42%

    Hardly a picture of economic mismanagement or dysfunction, but one thing has been proven in the last 5 years; slash and burn austerity measures are counter productive and destructive, take a look at Greece ans Spain… And Rabbotts grand economic plan is to take the same steps as Greece ans Spain… yep sounds like a brilliant idea dickhead!!

  67. Well said Steve.

    And the NZ debt percentage is a good one as Abbott has thrown up that country as a model of success on several occasions.

  68. Neil , that’s great you could at least answer about the gold. We are getting somewhere. Pity about nothing to say about the Telstra sale and how much it screwed competition and investment of broadband and comms in this country.

    But my burning question you still seem keen to avoid is……..what about those Howard socialist policies?

    What do you think about them Neil?

  69. Bob what about Abbott’s socialist policies?

    The right wingers love to rail against what they call “socialists” as though it’s the greatest evil on the planet, yet the party that is bringing in policies that are closest to being socialist is the Liberal Party.

  70. The right wingers love to rail against what they call “socialists” as though it’s the greatest evil on the planet, yet the party that is bringing in policies that are closest to being socialist is the Liberal Party.

    Thats exactly right. They are conditioned through the media they consume , their family and friend groups and other groupthink channels to believe that. Ive heard them at family outings, parties, pubs etc and they all parrot the same thing they have been taught to say through their tell me how to think channels. Like Summo on the last post:

    https://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/down-memory-lane/#comment-161126

    When confronted about it, they are like deer in headlights. They have no answer for it. They are conditioned to believe anything socialist is bad, ONLY Labor has socialist like policies and their conditioned McArthyist fanaticism takes over.

    Or like Neil when I asked him. He quoted me and answered something entirely different:

    https://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/now-we-know-john-howard-had-us-fooled/#comment-161322

    Then all subsequent questions about it were ignored. It’s like when I was a christian nutter and people told me conflicting views about my beliefs. Denial is the first line of defense. Ignoring it and hoping it will go away is the 2nd. Then confronting it to see if one has actually been a fool is the 3rd. Neil and co can’t even make it to the denial stage. Such is the programming.

    It’s like there is some men in black mind wiping tool that has been employed, where it’s just not something they can even contemplate. The Liberals are supposed to be free market champions….anti socialists, yet have just as many, if not more socialist policies as Labor.

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