Are the people stirring?

Does one get the feeling, there is something very unusual arising in the community? It is not anger or rage. Much deeper than that. It is not about politics or parties.

It is as if a body of people is standing up, and quietly saying “enough is enough”.

It is being driven by no one.

I think that asylum seeker having his throat slit might be the final straw.

I have joined up with the Getup group in my area. Yes, many people willing to take a stand. Very few have any interest in connection with any party. They all appear sincere about bringing about a change,

Most are not young.

If I am correct, Labor will have to be very careful how they manage things. I suspect these people are not interested in politics, in fact, many are saying a pox on all houses.

One is picking the same sentiment up on social media and blogs. Even comments on MSM sites.

We have the G20 Treasurers and bankers in Sydney. This under normal times would be a big event. The MSM seems to be ignoring it. It makes one cringe the little we see of Hockey.

The only reason I can see to it being ignored, is that the MSM does not want to highlight the fact that Hockey is making a fool of himself.

Maybe I am wrong, and it is wishful thinking on my part.


What is amazing, it is not rage, hate or anger. It comes across to me, as being steely resignation. Yes, a feeling that many believe they have no choice but stand up and be counted.

It is more like the public has lost all respect and belief in this government.

269 comments on “Are the people stirring?

  1. Catholics are not the only religious group concerned at the Government’s failures and fiascos. Alan Austin reports.

    THE LIST OF THE ABBOTT REGIME’S SINS, which Christian churches across Australia are denouncing in chorus, is growing steadily.

    Last month, IA listed several transgressions which have dismayed Roman Catholics. These include bioethical issues, persistent blatant lying, dudding Indigenous people, cutting overseas aid, abusing vulnerable people, militarism, spying and redistributing wealth and income in favour of the rich.

    Since then, further wrongs have provoked the outrage of Catholics and Protestants alike..,6202

  2. Maybe this is another step too far?

    ….”It discourages debate in Cabinet, free and open debate, which it is meant to be – which is why there’s a time limit on when documents are published and when they are not,” Mr Fraser said.

    “And also it invites payback from a new government, when there’s another change of government sometime in the future, and that kind of practice would ultimately do great damage to Australian democracy.”

    There have already been numerous investigations into the problems with the Rudd government’s home insulation program, including a senate inquiry in 2010, a performance review by the National Audit Office, a coroner’s inquest in both NSW and Queensland, a scientific study by the CSIRO and two other reviews or reports.

    Mr Fraser says that because of these investigations, using recent cabinet documents is not in the public interest.

    “What’s it going to find? Is it going to find that certain ministers ought to be prosecuted?” Mr Fraser said.

    “That’s most unlikely; there have already been coronial inquiries. I think the public know that the program was very incompetently managed.

    “I’m not aware of it happening in Australia’s history, I’m not aware of it happening in British history.

    “Many of our practices obviously flow from British experience.”

    Mr Fraser says that should this happen now, it would be much more likely to happen again in the future, until there are “sensible people operating” in the Parliament..

  3. “What does one make of this version?

    There was one person on Manus Island in 2007.

    When Labor got going we ended up with 1,300 people on Manus Island.

    I wonder how many people died in detention from 2007-2013.

    Nobody knows how many people died because ALP supporters only care about dead people when the Coalition is in power.

  4. Neil, and what does that have to do with the price of coal?

    Morrison has released a new version that seems to fit into what witnesses have been saying.

    Yes, it is beginning to look more like murder and assault on these people.

    Yes the inmates appear to be victims.

    Does this not concern you?

  5. The issue is why do Labor supporters all of a sudden worry about people who die in detention when they did not give a stuff about dead people from 2007-2013.

    And this is another mess the Coalition has to clean up. It will take years to clean out the concentration camps Labor has created.

  6. I cannot recall any incident under Labor, where people in detention were attacked from people outside the centers. I could be wrong.

    I cannot recall Labor ministers passing responsibility off to others.

    Yes back in the previous government, the principles of the Westminister system still apply.

    I cannot recall a Labor minister, deciding who was to blame or not, before any inquiry or investigations had occurred.

    We have Morrison backing off today.

    Neil, if you cannot talk about what is happening in the present, please put a sox in it.

    Personally, I would love to hear from you why you think Morrison and Abbott are doing so well.

    Not interested in what the previous two governments did. Not relevant in this discussion.

  7. I think you are just playing politics with this issue.

    You seem to be very excited that someone died while the Coalition was in power.

  8. .Manus Island’s police chief has blasted the Abbott government’s running of the immigration detention camp on the island, suggesting the recent fatal violence could have been avoided.
    Police commander Alex N’Drasal said the protests were sparked by the failure to act on a list of grievances raised by the asylum seekers. He said the Australian government should improve the way the detention centre is run.

    Read more:

  9. No, not excited, but sad. This death should not have happened, no matter what government is in charged.

    Neil, you keep making accusations of our intentions and morals here.

    Neil, you and I have been posting for years.

    When you accuse us of having misleading, immoral or lying intentions, please go back through the archives for evidence that back up your accusations.

    They are becoming a little tiring, and insulting.

    No, Neil, I am not playing politics. I am just reporting on the actions of Abbott and his government.

    Neil, you are right, if you believe I do not like what I see. That is indeed true.

    What I never see from you or others, any defense or challenging of what is said against this government.

    All one gets, is a fraudulent history lesson and name calling.

  10. Fed up is correct – no one should die in custody . But in this case we have illegal
    Boat People trying to enter Australia. That’s how Rudd saw it when he with the
    approval and backing of Federal Labor set up Manus Island .

  11. Whether illegal or not.

    People should not die in custody.. We say the same for the like of Millat and his ilk.

    Do you ever read the words you write.

    Even the local police chief is condemning the actions of Australia,

    Seeing more than one with slit throats takes a little explaining. Cannot think of any excuse that would hold water.

    No, whether illegal or not is irrelevant.

    Have to do better.

  12. Well Rudd was wrong.

    Yes, it is illegal to enter this country without permission., Yes, it is also true, asylum seekers are exempt from that legislation.

    Therefore, legal.

    This is not new to you, as you well know this to be true.

  13. @Fed Up who wrote “Asylym seekers are exempt from that legislation. Therefore legal.”

    Actually, from what I’ve read, asylum seekers are not so much as exempt from the legislation as exempt from being prosecuted under the legislation. A subtle distinction.

  14. Oh, and this whole ‘article’ that the people are quietly stirring?
    I think thete’s a bit of wishful thinking there.

    The self righteous hypocrites might be thinking, or wishing, that they were fighting a battle like those protesters in Ukraine (ABC FB page has comments along those lines) but the fact is that the government is getting on with their work to fix the economic disaster zone left by Labor.

    If we didn’t have those 6 years of incompetence, infighting and self indulgence of Labor, there would not been as much damage control required and consequently the ‘medicine’ would not have been so bitter, but we had to endure Krudd and Gillard and Krudd and we now are paying the price for that folly.

  15. Good signs for the Queensland Labor Party come the next State Election, the arrogant and corrupt Half Pint Newman and his bunch of LNP cronies are well and truly on the nose with the voters.

    New Redcliffe MP Yvette D’Ath says voters were far more angry with Queensland Premier Campbell Newman than with disgraced former MP Scott Driscoll, as she claimed victory in the by-election for the Queensland seat.

    LNP candidate Kerri-Anne Dooley has conceded defeat in the Redcliffe by-election, north of Brisbane.

    ABC election analyst Antony Green said Ms D’Ath “easily” won the by-election about 7:20pm (AEST).

    He says that with more than 56 per cent of ballots counted, the projected two-party preferred swing is more than 16 per cent.

  16. I think this is a bit of wishful thinking from a myopic Abbott supporter that there isn’t disquiet in the electorate…so go ahead repeat your wishful thinking often in the hope people will start to believe it…it worked with the 25 and counting lies that Abbott told prior to the election.

  17. Like result in Queensland. Better to come I hope.

    Yes, it could be wishful thinking on my part. Wishful thinking for a better future than we have now.

    If the economy Labor left is the worse any new governme\nt has to deal with, we are indeed a lucky nation.

    Will not bother listing all the positives, as most know.,

    We have quickly gone downhill since this mob came in.

    How an economy with a triple AAA rating from all three rating agencies over more than four years can be shambles is beyond me.

    Yes, there are problems at, as Labor said. They are not being made any better by ideological actions taken by this government. A government that continues to talk the economy down.

    Dire warnings that are coming from the mouth of Hockey does not give a one hope.

    I fervently hope my wishful thinking turns into reality.

  18. I also think it might be illegal to allow them to be murdered. Even Morrison has backtracked on what occurred.

    The eye witness accounts which Morrison rejected, appear to be nearer the truth.

    These people were attacked by those outside the camps.

    If there is any truth in this version,. This government has no control over what is occurring. They have lost control because of their incompetence,

    Too busy playing war games, than focussing on making the PNG scheme work.

  19. Listening to Hockey ABC 24. His bumbling comments give one little confidence. Motherhood statements deliver little.

  20. “It is more like the public has lost all respect and belief in this government.” From the tone of your post this should read “all government” shouldn’t it? I know I have.

  21. knowispeaksense. JohnB lives in his cloistered fantasy world where apparently swaths of people decry Labor and think Abbott is the greatest thing since bottled beer.

    There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

    And as always the right wing hark back to Labor in any answer to things this government is doing wrong. They never address this government, it’s failures, lies, deceits, litany of broken promises, cover ups, secrecy and worst of all their bit by bit undermining of our democracy itself, all for the benefit of a few very wealthy and of course a perpetual Liberal party in power.

    Every topic on this government and their policies is answered with attacks on Labor, and even then it’s very selective as the almost sole thing they concentrate on is asylum seekers, demonising and marginalising them at every turn, because they, wrongly, believe that this single thing is a great success for the Abbott government they can crow about.

    The poor deluded ideological myopic bastards don’t realise it’s a massive failure and a pox on both major parties. At least many on the left condemned it when Rudd used this inhumane policy, and have increased their ire with the increase of oppression of these helpless people by this woeful and wanton government. Yet the right wingers are rejoicing in the suffering, deaths, secrecy and cover ups, just as they rejoiced at the deaths of boat people under Labor with the Abbott opposition encouraging the smugglers to bring asylum seekers over and then crying faux concern and outrage at their deaths and treatment in Malaysia, Indonesia and offshore detention centres.

    Where is all that concern now? Evaporated as they use the suffering of people for political gain at the cost of billions more over the previous insane amounts spent on this minor problem by firstly Howard and then Rudd. Abbott makes that spending look like loose change.

    And amongst all this there was a very workable solution offered by Gillard that the opposition and the right wing media stymied at every turn, again crying faux concern at the time but are now engaging in equal or worse treatment of asylum seekers. Hypocrites.

    So where are all the right wingers who displayed their outrage at that time at the mistreatment of asylum seekers in neighbouring countries? If you go back through the posts at the time you will find some of them posting here, but now condoning and supporting the mistreatment of those same asylum seekers they had concern for not all that long ago. Hypocrites

  22. Voyager, Neil, and John B. The Larry, Moe, and Curly of the CW comments section.

    The issue is not the blame game about who set up the system, in fact it originated with the Hawke government in the late 80s, after Chinese asylum seekers had been found wandering without food and water in far north of Western Australia. Both sides of politics have been complicit in perpetuating this reprehensible policy, both deserve condemnation.

    The mantle of secrecy adopted by the Abbott government does it no credit and simply serves to exacerbate the situation. Fundamental politics dictates that if you formulate a policy – any policy, then it must be open to scrutiny not only to the opposition but also to the public. Any attempts to then draw a veil across it simply serves to arouse greater curiosity about what you, as a government have to hide.

    In this case, the Abbott government is trying to hide the fact that firstly they cannot ‘stop the boats’ – and before you respond with the usual line about ‘there have been none for sixty four days’, this is largely due to the monsoon season and high seas rather than any effort by the Abbott government.

    Secondly, there is no way that either side of politics will be able to stop the boats and this is due to the fact that following the decade long ‘War on Terror’ and the effects of climate change, there are untold numbers of dispossessed seeking refuge all over the globe.

    Governments in the developed world have known this for over a decade, and yet have in the main lacked the foresight or courage to deal with the problem – and so it continues.
    Were it any or all three of you in the same position, there is little doubt that you’d be the first in line at the people smugglers to escape your fate.

    As for the ‘economic disaster zone left by the Labor government’ – what disaster zone? How many times do you have to be told that government deficit isn’t ‘debt’ as governments which have sovereignty over their own currency can never run out of money and therefore do not have the same constraints as household or business debt? Nor do they have to borrow or be dependent on tax revenue before they can spend.

    Best that the three of you have a whip around and buy yourself a Year 10 economics text book and go from there. You may also like to buy yourselves a History text book in order to familiarize yourselves with the fact of how the current Asylum seekers situation arose, not to mention that if you as a government, continue to push people to their knees, then sooner or later they’re going to be at your throat – that’s fundamental politics and fundamental history, which clearly none of you seem to have a grasp.

  23. Fu I think one of the reasons that Morrison has back tracked on his early precis of events is that a credible witness has come out in the form of a DFAT interpreter who was in the centre at the time.

    That interpreter contradicted what the government was attempting to portray. Morrison is now doing the typical Liberal underhanded thing and is going to cover it up. He has stated an investigation could take many months if not longer and an enquiry months as well.

    They have no trouble getting together enquiries and commissions at a drop of a hat, well over 50 now in six months, but seem to have trouble when the investigation is on themselves. Strange about that.

    And by the way on all those enquiries and commissions. Where is the right winger outrage over them and the cries of waste as there was for Rudd’s 20 odd commissions in 12 months? The Murdoch media ran many weeks of stories decrying this waste of tax payers money from Rudd and stating he was all commission and no action, yet that same media outlet and the right wing supporter have gone mute over the many more, most purely political and a real waste.

  24. Yes, all governments.

    I believe Labor has to be very careful on how it reacts to any movement. Not time for party politics.

    I suspect most are not interested in “politics”.

    No, it runs deeper than that.

  25. ME, except that these events are taking place in another country. A country that seems do not want the camps.. Mainly because this government dealt them out of the promise jobs. The locals seen themselves also providing food and other goods to the camps.

    They are on the outside looking in. While the worker hired in jobs they thought were theirs, are housed in luxury, in a ship offshore. The camps are not adding to the local economy. This was promised.

    The local police chief has strongly condemned this government, laying the b; lame for the disquiet among the inmates at Morrison’s feet.

    No, there will not be a drawn out inquiry. There are many things governments cannot control. One is keeping all secret.

    I know it makes me sick, to have to accept, the witness reports could be correct.

    Six months down the track, not one refugee has been resettled. Not one knows what their future is.

    I think, reading some reports, many of these people were told their applications had been rejected, and would be sent back home.

    I think that Morrison natural way of dealing with possible conflict and disquiet of the inmates is brutal force, It appears that there were meetings to inform people of their fate with all involved, including PNG politicians. This meeting was held, with guards, and dogs surrounding, what seemed to be mostly men.

    Now, if I was surrounded by armed guards with dogs, I would become a little uneasy.

    Especially if I was in a situation where I have no control over whatever.

  26. That statement that was lodged in dispatch boxes last night, at 8.46 after papers went to the press.

    Looks bad.

    Henerson trying to gloss over the matter on the Insiders.

    Accusing Morrison of lying.

    Morrison has been well and truly called out.

  27. Interestingly I heard a report on the local radio yesterday about a poll whereby Abbott is now Australia’s most disliked PM in history. The report concluded that he now ranks alongside Rudd and Gillard as the 3 most despised PM’s in history. Fair summation in my view. The decade from 2006 to 2016 will be recorded as the decade in the wilderness. No effective leadership whatsoever. Just mindless self serving politicians lining their own pockets and those of their hangers on. There’s nobody in LNP ranks worthy of leadership and ditto for the ALP, including that shitman Shorten. So where should Australia go from here?

  28. Graeme, probably not. That does not make this incidence any better.

    What is true, Morrison should not have assumed so quickly, that it was the asylum seekers that are at fault.

    That is bad judgement on his part.

    Graeme, governments does set the tone for how these people are to be treated. This is where their problems lie. They have deliberately created the impression, that these people are less than human. They have worked hard at demonising them. They have been successful, if one reads the comments on many sites.

  29. Yesterday (Saturday), there was a large march down The Corso, Manly, to Abbott’s Sydney electoral office, in protest of his government’s asylum seeker policy & treatment of these refugees. There has not been any sign of coverage of this important event in any of the MSM, not even ABC’s online news. It may have been shown on SBS’s news, as they seem to be the last true source of news left. It certainly wasn’t on Ch7’s Sydney evening news last night. Perhaps the marchers should not have been so well-behaved.

    The media has now decided it will take full control over what news the public should be told about & are completely following the “narrative” as laid out by News Corpse & the Coalition government.

    We all know what happens when news is manipulated, massaged & censored to suit the government of the day.

    March on Abbott's Manly office by Lee Rhiannon Message to big to ignore— Betty T
    (@bettsie2u) February 22, 2014

  30. I only partly agree with you Don as Gillard was a great PM, destroyed by attacks on three fronts; her party, a morally corrupt opposition led my a misogynist and a vicious media campaign.

    I’ll continue to believe that unless you can prove to me with evidence and facts, not from the right wing media, that it isn’t the case.

    If you cite her carbon price/tax statement as evidence then you are also admitting that Abbott is a complete failure and needs to be kicked out now for he has mislead the people to a far greater extent than anything Gillard has done or has been misreported as doing.

  31. Just another apolitical occupy movement, with the same predictable results. You can’t be apolitical and morally outraged and expected your mummy or daddy to come running.

  32. Another reason why the indications are the people are starting to turn against this government, and that includes mutterings from the right, is the mixed messages it constantly sends out. For instance whilst it has been going on about waste, budget emergencies etc. it has been splashing out obscene amounts of public money and in its first six months has increased spending over the previous government, that includes on Abbott himself, who is well and truly heading to be the most expensive PM ever by a long shot after being the most expensive LOTO in history by a long shot.

    $9.5 billion over the next four years for offshore detention.

    Two frigates at about $207,000 per day, seven patrol boats at about $40,000 per day each and numerous Customs vessels for operation Sovereign Borders. That doesn’t include the maritime patrol aircraft that are many thousands per hour to operate.

    Throwaway life boats at around $70,000. The number purchased having been significantly increased recently.

    (Funny I thought the boats had stopped, so why are they spending so much money, extra billions, on a problem that no longer exists according to their bragging)

    Gifted two multi-million dollar patrol boats to the Sri Lankan Navy spending $2 million refurbishing them.

    $14 billion in fossil fuel subsides over the next four years.

    $3.2 billion as a gift to the worst polluting companies for DAP.

    $5.5 billion a year to new parents. The wealthier you are the more you get.

    $40 billion? on broadband that few people will be hooked to. And that $40 billion is now an admitted underestimate yet still $14 billion more than their claim of $26 billion for Fraudband during the election.

    $1.5 billion for East-West Link without a full business case because the state government has refused to make it public, even to the Federal government. This is despite the pre-election promise that no infrastructure project over $100 million would go ahead without a CBA.

    Gift Rupert Murdoch $882 million. Which will be just the start of the largesse Abbott will gift to that man and his organisation.

    $600 million on two new bigger planes for Abbott.

    $5 million to buy a fleet of bomb proof BMWs for Abbott. (Yet I though he said things would be much better under his government, so why does he believe he needs all this expensive protection from the Australian people?)

    $300 million a year interest on the money Joe Hockey borrowed.

    Two purely politically motivated Royal Commissions that on average cost $100 million each.

    Cadbury $16 million because they sponsor the Pollie Pedal.

    Manly Sea Eagles $10 million to upgrade their oval. Just happens to be in Abbott’s electorate and he is the number 1 ticket holder. If it smells like pork then it is pork. The LNP are greatest at it by a long shot.

    Brisbane Broncos $5 million as another Murdoch largesse. Much more yet to come for Rupert.

    $4.3 million for a research company.

    $2.2 million legal aid for farmers and miners to fight native title claims whilst cutting back legal aid to Aboriginals. That from the Aboriginals friend and minister.

    Tim Wilson $320,000pa for a job he has absolutely no relevant qualifications or experience, appointed by George Brandis without interview or consultation.
    (To pay Wilson programs that may have to be cut are anti-bullying and education for older Australians.)

    A study by Price Waterhouse Cooper into childcare while the Productivity Commission finishes its study into childcare. Obviously the government already knows what the PC will find so wants to quash that and stack its own study the way it wants the outcome to be. Now where have we seen that before? That’s right, in just about every study and commission this government has engaged at huge cost.

    Countless reviews, audits, consultants, committees and investigations. Each member of a panel on the Commission of Audit gets $1500 per day without the cost of staffers and office incidentals, collectively could be hundreds of millions just to find what this government wants them to find.

    Liberal Members of Parliament to go to weddings, wineries, book launches, sporting events and real estate hunting tours. Thousands of dollars on books that have nothing to do with their job and even build expensive book cases to hold those books along with having custom built furniture. Still not good enough, hire private jets to get around including their family, even to those rorted wedding and sporting events.

    Kirribilli House, the Lodge, and a mansion for Abbott and his family that no one using.

    …and so much more waste it’s hard to keep track of. Yet this is the government that decries waste and goes on about budget emergency.

    The only budget emergency is the one of their own making so they can use it to justify severe cuts to those in need to pay for their largesse’s to themselves and wealthy mates/benefactors whilst bringing in WorkChoices.

  33. No, I do not believe what I see happening as having connection with any other movement. Nothing to do with politics or ideology. Just people realizing enough have been enough, and feel they cannot stand-by and do nothing anymore.

    Getup has turned into the unease that is in the community. Maybe these people are tuning into the options that Getup has open up for them.

    My experience is, that it I those who have come forwarded, are forming the agenda.

    Getup has up to this time, done no more than giving people a platform to work from.

    What I do not know, is what has occurred in other electorates. I am, in a safe Labor seat.

    People more concerned about democracy than personal politics.

    What is clear to me, they are unhappy about the policies that are now being put in place.

    May I asked, why any movement has to be political. Political to me, involves parties and ideologies.

    It is in MHO, has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the concern of the path our society is going down.

    People still care about truth and a fair go. Most want a civil society.

    One would think this would be the aim of any political party.

  34. Has anybody thought that the Manus Island uproar could have been the result of the poor asylum seeker being beaten to death, by whom nobody knows. People don’t riot for the sake of rioting, there has to be reason. Motor mouth Morrision knows the answer to this but once again trying to blame someone or something other than the truth. He continually says the people in detention are safe so the attack had to come from within.

  35. ME, you forgot that smug smart look Abbott gets on his face, everytime he makes an announcement. Yes, and the glee he seems to experience, everytime he continues with his vindictive vengeance campaign against the previous Labor government and their leaders.

    Look at his ridiculous outrage about the Pink Batt scheme. Rehashing of lies and unfounded allegations. Yes, there have already eight or more investigations that have found no proof for what he cannot let go. Getting even has become an obsession for this PM.

    A PM who thinks nothing of trashing 117 years of Westminster conventions, to get his own way.

    This, is what is unsettling to many. Not politics or ideology.

  36. Patricia, more so, if it is their future that is at risk. People would rebel only when all hope is gone, and one has nothing to lose.

  37. @Crowey, no I don’t mind at all. The more it is spread around the better. I’m sure the original tweeter Betty T won’t mind either. (I hope :))

    Did think I was imagining it all such was the total lack of news coverage of this event. Even the SBS seems to have neglected it. Soooo, I Googled Refugee Action Coalition. Their Sydney branch organised the march from their FB page at fairly short notice & what a turnout they had. Just goes to show the impact social media is .now having..

  38. @Neil of Sydney The issue is why do Labor supporters all of a sudden worry about people who die in detention when they did not give a stuff about dead people from 2007-2013.

    Why is it coalition sycophants rant about those who died under Labor but are silent on the deaths under Howard. “But he stopped the boats”, he didn’t like this government only stopped the information about boats and drownings.

  39. The Anti-Rally legislation just brought down by Naptime would seem to indicate that the Liarbrils are concerned with deteriorating tolerance and trust in the political system. Rabbott-the-Hun wouldn’t really care if there was blood on the streets as that’s his metier but they just might underestimate the consequences.

  40. JohnB,

    Calling people who are concerned at the actions of the current government “self righteous wankers”, is about as non productive and hypocritical as it’s possible for a self righteous wanker be ..

  41. Will definitely be marching. One has no choice. Senator Milne was very strong. Most of what she said made sense.

    Must look for some of the videos that showed members of the then opposition in tears, when they debated the Malaysian Solution. Performances in both houses deserved Oscars. Mr. Hockey was one of the star performers, if my memory is not letting me down.

    If showing concern makes me a left-wing wanker, so be it. At least it means I am a caring human being.

  42. “Why is it coalition sycophants rant about those who died under Labor but are silent on the deaths under Howard.”

    Howard was faced with an increase in boat arrivals and through trial and error managed to solve the problem.

    In 2008 in a burst of morality and chest beating Labor announced it was doing away with Howards Pacific Solution and created all this trouble.

    And i knew this would happen. Labor locked up record numbers of people from 2007-2013 and very few people protested. Now the Coalition is in power trying to deal with the mess and get the detention centers empty, Labor supporters are now interested in people in detention.

  43. Reblogged this on hi2lea and commented:
    I know with me I was horrified when Abbott got elected as leader, but since his election the LNP has very quickly been attacking anybody who is not a billionaire in Australia. THe party seems to be picking on the most vulnerable in society and their carers. The government needs to be dismissed like they did with the Whitlam government.

  44. “It is illegal to lock up children in concentration camps.

    Yes and Howard released children from detention and put them into community housing after protests.

    The Rudd/Gillard govt however locked up more children than any govt and nobody complained until the Coalition was handed this mess in 2013.

    There were 1,000 children in detention in 2013 and nobody cared until Labor lost the election.


    ……….So, compared to Malaysia, Nauru is humane, cost-effective and proven – and that’s why I say that the Prime Minister should pick up the phone to the President of Nauru and reopen this centre. It’s humane, it’s cost-effective and it’s proven, unlike Malaysia, and I would challenge the Immigration Minister to go around and show to the Australian people the centre, the hospital, the education and the justice facilities that boat people from Australia would enjoy in Malaysia and I don’t believe that Chris Bowen can do that. If Chris Bowen and Julia Gillard were fair dinkum, they would be able to take people from Australia now and show them the housing, the health facilities, the education facilities and the justice facilities that boat people from Australia would enjoy in Malaysia and I don’t think they can do that but obviously Scott and I have been able to do that here in Nauru. So, again, I really think that this is clear evidence, if any is needed, that by far the best way to stop the boats is to reopen this centre here in Nauru in conjunction with temporary protection visas…….

  46. Steven, I would not know whether Neil likes this government or not. Neil is obsessed with the days of Howard anbd hatred of all things Labor.

    Would love to know what he likes about this government, and why. Would love to know a little about Neil himself, so one can have a better idea of where he is coming from an.

    Neil could be anything from ten to hundred. What his education and work, if he does is totally unknown.

    Do not even know whether he is a family, man or not.

    One wonders at times, if he is real.

  47. Seems we have record low arrivals of Illegal Boat People.
    Seems to be working well
    Seems word will get back to ‘ Potential Illegals ‘ that a dangerous journey is
    Just not worth it. Plus living on Manus Is not attractive , living long term
    In PNG also unattractive as no Social Security Benefits and Pigs are the
    Seems again the Sludges at CW totally out of touch yet again.

  48. thanks for your lovely compliments Voyager. I’ve never been called sludge before, no doubt about it, right wingers are full of charm. Tell me Voyager, are you also a Christian man , like you loving and caring Leader ?

  49. Voyager at least get it right. People coming by boat, seeking asylum are not acting illegally and therefore are not Illegals

  50. Yes, that journey is dangerous. I am sure all that get aboard the boats know this.

    One can only guess that they consider, what they are fleeing is more intolerable.

    Does it not say, they might just have a case for asylum, for safe haven, is they are willing to risk getting on the boats.

    Seems ending up on the Islands does not deter them.

  51. Hockey has got his two page document.. Does not appear to say much. Surely it is the job of any treasurer to aim for growth?

    Nothing but more slogans and motherhood statements.

  52. Overseas journalists asking Hockey to be more specific. Home grown journalist, please take a leaf out of her book.,

    Not that she got a specific answer.

  53. Boat people; my and many others’ ancestors, more recently Abbott and Gillard’s families… arrived for a better future

    … even more recently, boat people, men, women and children locked up indefinitely… a young man bashed to death, missing boats at sea, a shroud of silence by current Federal government – the most secretive government Australia has had.

  54. Mate i wished they stirred from 2007-2013.

    There may have been some protests but i never saw them mentioned on leftoid blogs until the Coalition was in power.

  55. Boat people; my and many others’ ancestors, more recently Abbott and Gillard’s families… arrived for a better future

    Eggaxctly. That is why they are here. You finally said something i agree with.

    However we have immigration programs for people who want to come here for a better life.

    Our humanitarian program is for people fleeing for their lives.

  56. Kim W
    The very fact that they have ditched all their ID on boarding the boat and
    Subsequently filling in forms that they have no ID is Illegal .
    You must believe ‘Nigerian Cons’ are legal . You may have watched lots of TV
    Like every ‘Get Smart’ episode , unfortunately Kim that does not make you smart.
    They are Illegal pure and simple.
    Talk to a few people who have accommodated these illegals , they carry on
    like ungrateful pigs . Even thrashed hotel/motels in Brisbane justify that Sludge!
    Stay on Manus Island , it is a really beautiful island . I had to pay a lot of money
    to get there and to leave.


    What is amazing, it is not rage, hate or anger. It comes across to me, as being steely resignation. Yes, a feeling that many believe they have no choice but stand up and be counted.’
    And news gets worse!

    Coalition in talks about potential Cambodian solution on refugees

    Read more:

    …’Cambodia is one of Asia’s poorest countries and dependent on hundreds of millions of dollars of foreign aid.
    Hun Sen, a former cadre of the murderous Khmer Rouge that ruled the country in the 1970s, has faced months of anti-government protests after disputed elections in July.
    Human rights groups say Cambodia has one of the worst human rights records in Asia.
    Security forces in Phnom Penh have been cracking down on protesters, including striking garment workers.
    Riot police opened fire on protesters last month, killing five people. More than 20 protesters have been jailed without charge for weeks…’

  58. voyager you low-life piece of scum – watch this in its entirety and then have a good think about whether you really belong to the human race 👿

    [video src="" /]

  59. vBS, gotta link to that bit of balderdash….. the amount of times that the good people here have corrected your mistaken, umm, ‘views’ and you still sprout misinformation 🙄 …. surely you can’t be that thick 😕
    … news-flash for ya vBS YOUR WRONG…again (still). You and your fellow Brethren are NOT one of the Chosen to whom God has vouchsafed the Knowledge of All Things…. as you , umm, ‘think’…… YOU are the one wallowing in illegality…. illegality of thoughts, words and deeds…… YOU are akin to being a LIAR with your wonton misinforming and/or just plain ignorance.
    Not all liars are Liberals…. but ALL Liberals are LIARS.

  60. Morrison did what the whingers wanted and provided information about the riots and the sad loss of one life at the Manus Island camp.

    Unfortunately, some of that early information turned out to be incorrect and Morrison corrected the record, as you’d expect him to do.

    If he’d waited until the full facts were known, the leftist whingers would have been complaining about being kept in the dark, when he does provide immediate information, they complain when some of it is shown later to be wrong.


    As for the experts here who don’t like the asylum seeker policy, well I’d love to know the answers to the following;

    1 Should Australia accept any/every asylum seeker who comes by boat ?

    2 What is Australia’s capacity for these arrivals (how many is too many) ?

    3 Do we “process” them (confirm eligibility for asylum) or do we take them at their word?

    4 What taxpayer funded benefits should legitimate asylum seekers receive, ie full unemployment benefits, medicare, education etc?

    5 What should be the social security “budget” for providing all these benefits for asylum seekers?

    6 Who is gonna pay for it?

  61. Yes, I can see why some believe stopping boats at any cost is all that matters.

    Yes, if one believed the most pressing problems we have at this is preventing a few desperate people reaching out shores. If one believes this, I suspect they can also swallow that the means does not matter.

    These people will accept that the cost is never too high. Yes cost in money, reputation, and relations with other countries is a cheap price to pay.

    There are others, myself included, that do not see these desperate people seeking safe haven a threat.

    What does concern me, is the fact that because of the system that exists at this time, they feel they have to risk a journey on a leaking boat to find a place they can begin their lives over.

    There are better ways. Ways to help these people. Ways to stop the boats coming.

    Yes, a beginning was began, Yes, it started back with the Malaysian Solution as a starter.

    Then we had the Expert panel, which came up with a plan that could work

    Yes, there are answers, but ours is not playing the tough man.,

    The answer is getting all in the region involved. Yes, it does include us taking our fair share.

    Using poor and vulnerable countries as Nauru and PNG is at playing fair.

    Yes, for many, taking our fair share of asylum seekers is not the problem. The problem is finding a safer way for them to reach safety and decent life.

    There are many, that cannot stomach that locking people up for decades with no future, is an option., Creating conditions so dire, that these people will return to the hell they are fleeing.

    Yes, Morrison might stop the boats. Might create in these people no hope. Yes, he might well succeed, but it does not solve the problems of people having to to flee to safety.

    The stupid thing is, many of these people are highly educated and have the skills this country can use. Yes, they can contribute to the future well being of this nation.
    It is a win win situation.

    This has been the case with all that have come from the second world war. Our country has thrived because we did open our borders at all.

    Yesd many do not see asylum seekers as a threat.

    Does anyone really believe any government will get away with jailing people for decades.

  62. “Who is paying for the billions now being wasted.?”

    You people are shameless.

    We were spending $80M/year in 2007 on our refugees program. This increased to over $1B/year under Rudd/Gillard.

    And you have the hide to talk about cost.

  63. Neil, how much do you think keeping 500 ADF and boats in the north. Gods know how many 100’s custom menu.

    Neil, you are looking at many billions that will need to be spent every year.\

    What price do you put on the breakdown of relationship with nearly every country in the region.

    Can you live by destroying are the future of thousands of asylu7n seekers.

    All for what?

  64. They are only there because you voted for Rudd in 2007.

    We have spent at least $6B more than we would have under the Coalition because Labor locked up record numbers of men, women and children.

    You partisan bias is shameless. The detention centers will be eventually closed but it will take years. No boats for 9 weeks means we can slowly close them.

    Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has confirmed the closure of four detention centres on the Australian mainland, in a move he says will save the budget $88.8 million a year.

  65. JohnB, why don’t you do what any reasonably smart person would do and have a look at the Social Security Act 1991 to find out the answer. And if that piece of legislation is too hard for you to comprehend – as I imagine it would be – then go to either the Centrelink page or the Dept of Immigration page to see what their entitlements are.

    And don’t do the typical right-wing cop out and ask me to do it for you.

  66. John B
    You asked the same questions that others of your ilk asked about the Vietnamese boat people and remember there was no mandatory detention then. Instead of millions of communists that the doomsayers said were going to take over our country the total number including family reunions was 250,000 and Vietnamese community have proved to be beneficial to Australia.

    There are not millions waiting to descend on us for a number of reasons including the fact that few have the resources or courage to make the journey. The push factors have been extreme in recent years which has led to numbers increasing but well within our capacity to handle.

    In 2012 we had 15,700 asylum seekers in 2013 around 24,000. in 2013 we had 60,000 real illegals who came by plane and overstayed their visa, on outcry about that however. We also had 125,000 foreign workers come to Australia to do jobs that for the most part Australians are too lazy to do. Nett migration each year is 200,000. We do not have an asylum seeker problem this is just a political construct from both major parties.

    Labor has an appalling record in its treatment of asylum seekers, it was Keating that brought in mandatory detention, then Howard that sent people offshore and it Gillard who reintroduced offshore detention followed by Rudd who denied asylum seekers any hope of resettlement with his regional agreement with the PNG. Morrison is just following a path that was set up by Labor.

    There is no left or right anymore there is just right and extreme right and a pox on both of them.

    The term illegal is wrong and there is no queue for people to jump – don’t believe me just go to the Australian Parliament’s website where they spell it out

    And as for any groundswell of action from the left forget it apart from whining on and exchanging mutual admiration on blogs apathy will as usual win the day because when it comes down to it people just plain selfish. At least those on the right are honest whereas most on the left are delusional.

  67. I note none of the hypocrites would dare answer the question, instead they have a go at me for asking, quite simply, what our capacity is.


    As for the experts here who don’t like the asylum seeker policy, well I’d love to know the answers to the following;

    1 Should Australia accept any/every asylum seeker who comes by boat ?

    2 What is Australia’s capacity for these arrivals (how many is too many) ?

    3 Do we “process” them (confirm eligibility for asylum) or do we take them at their word?

    4* What taxpayer funded benefits should legitimate asylum seekers receive, ie full unemployment benefits, medicare, education etc?

    5 What should be the social security “budget” for providing all these benefits for asylum seekers?

    6 Who is gonna pay for it?

    (*Just to clarify, I am against creating an “underclass” so I believe that recognised refugees should be entitled to all the ordinary benefits available to any other Australian citizen regarding health, education and social welfare, plus they should be provided language and integration information to assist them in fully becoming a part of Australian society. My point, in asking this question, is to determine the parameters and assumptions under which the “you” operate)

    Now, will anyone actually ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ??

  68. John B
    If we accepted 50,000 asylum seekers a year, the same number that Sweden accepted in 2013, we would not have an asylum seeker problem.

    We will spend $5 billion this financial year on detaining 10,000 people in offshore, onshore and community detention. This does not include increased aid to PNG, Nauru and Sri Lanka or the $650,000 daily cost for the navel assets used in Operation Sovereign Borders.

    If all 50,000 remained unemployed, which is most unlikely, full benefits including health and education works out at $38,000 per person per year or $1.9 billion.

  69. I don’t have enough knowledge to answer all your questions John B, All i know is that this country is fast becoming a heartless cruel place, ruled by heartless cruel people. And to do what we are now doing to those refugee’s is against everything that my heart feels and my mind believes.

  70. VOYAGER – Brisbane – Sydney
    FEBRUARY 23, 2014 @ 6:26 PM

    They are Illegal pure and simple.
    End Quote

    Ok, then why aren’t you and your beloved LNP shooting them on the water, if they are illegal then there will be no international backlash, no difference to “policing” the borders from pirates and associated transgressors, go on, start killing them on the water instead of rounding them up in barrels to kill and see what sort of international condemnation you incur. You are slime, of the brown shirt variety.

  71. No one answers the points I raise.
    1 how does a person get to Indonesia without a Passport and ID?
    Indonesia is the most common place for Boat departures. But have
    Neither on entry into Australian waters.
    2. I know as absolute fact that these people while being accommodated in
    Brisbane in decent hotel/motels have destroyed the places. They have also
    been incredibly rude , demanding and insulting to good hardworking
    Australian staff members.
    Do we want the fore mentioned here in Australia – you must be joking Sludges.
    Keep Australia Beautiful. Keep disrespectful cheating lying illegals out.
    The success of Soverign Borders is most applaudable, Congratulations!

  72. No, Voyager, they are illegal, start shooting them on the water, start agitating your beloved LNP to do so, that is the only answer you brown shirts really want.

  73. Surely Voyager now that your beloved LNP have started murdering the “illegals” in the (concentration) camps, like fish in a barrel, it will be an easy step to murdering them on the high seas, go on, petition the Abbottoir government to do so, you know you want to.

  74. Voyager, you “know as an absolute fact”, all I know as an absolute fact is,
    VOYAGER – Brisbane – Sydney = Oxygen Thief

  75. For
    FEBRUARY 23, 2014 @ 11:21 PM

    1/ Sure, why not, they are probably leaving a country we caused or abetted a shit storm in,
    2/ Well at a reasonable estimate I reckon we could accept 1 to 2 percent of our population.
    3/ In the first instance, take them at their word and check as far as possible their claims.
    4/ Full, if they are to become an Australian citizen then the same as an Australian citizen.
    5/ Same as the current budget, der, provide for all Australian citizens.
    6/ Easy, strip the ill gotten gains from the 1%, one by one, and repatriate them to the country of the Asylum seekers they replace, there they will be “real” entrepreneurs and rebuild those broken countries by their “god given” expertise in money making and “job creation”, hey a win-win for everyone.

  76. So many mis-facts in your demand for answers to questions. But telling isn’t it, the usual right wing demand for answers whilst never answering anything put to them. The usual stuck up themselves born to rule mentality.

    Just to put your mis-facts/lies right.

    1 Should Australia accept any/every asylum seeker who comes by boat?
    A Only the ones that are legitimate, as they had been doing for decades now.

    2 What is Australia’s capacity for these arrivals (how many is too many)?
    A They are a fraction of the immigration intake, one full MCG in a decade or more. Other countries that are poorer and/or smaller than us take in far larger numbers.

    3 Do we “process” them (confirm eligibility for asylum) or do we take them at their word?
    A We have always processed them for eligibility, it’s why they are held in detention for a period before being released into the community. That question shows either you utter ignorance or deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.

    4* What taxpayer funded benefits should legitimate asylum seekers receive, ie full unemployment benefits, medicare, education etc?
    A The same they have always gotten, which is slightly less than an Australian citizen gets. But then resettled asylum seekers go on to get jobs and set up businesses fairly quickly, unlike many of the immigrants who come into this country legally.

    5 What should be the social security “budget” for providing all these benefits for asylum seekers?
    A That’s just a repeat of question 4 put a different way and again shows either your stupidity or a deliberate misrepresentation.

    6 Who is gonna pay for it?
    A Again a repeat of 4 and 5. So like all typical right wingers you put money ahead of humanity. It’s the most important thing in your life, as much as you may aver it not to be.

    Let me put it this way JohnB. An asylum seeker found to be legitimate, and that turns out to be well over 90% historically, will cost the tax payer around $38,000pa until they get work or set up businesses.

    To process them onshore costs about 90% less than the current offshore processing. At the moment each asylum seeker is costing the Australian taxpayer around $1 million per year. And even if there wasn’t a single asylum seeker in offshore detention those centres and hugely expensive patrols would still cost more than onshore processing and resettlement.

    Asylum seekers are purely a very expensive political football to win votes.

    Now I wonder who took us to an illegal war and has supported others that has led to many of these asylum seekers?

    I wonder who is giving military aid to an oppressive regime that is also a source of asylum seekers?

  77. JohnB just realised your question 1 and 3 are the same just put differently.

    So what you have done is actually only ask three questions, but deliberately expanded them out to six as some form of lame attempt in making an inane point.

  78. Even thrashed hotel/motels in Brisbane

    I know as absolute fact that these people while being accommodated in
    Brisbane in decent hotel/motels have destroyed the places.

    I call you a lyinig toerag voyager. You’ve repeated this claim several times here, BUT HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIM.

    Until you can provide documented evidence of this, you remain a xenophobic, low-life, lying piece of scum…

  79. RWNJs made the very same mendacious claims about New Orleans Hurricane Katrina refugees because they were black. Even tried to maintain they were witness to such incidents when they weren’t.

    The non-thinking bogan conservatives all sing from the same songsheet no matter what country they live in.

  80. You have to wonder what the hell, if anything, are they thinking, and what would constitute a sacking offence with this rabble, they call a government 😯

    I wonder if Julie “Medusa” Bishop, has booked her flights to North Korea, The Sudan, Syria and Sri Lanka to discuss asylum seeker resettlement arrangements after her fishing expedition to Cambodia 🙄

    And I have just posted my thoughts on Morrison’s incompetence: “An unfortunate incident?” 😉

    Cheers 😀

  81. Voyager
    In answer to your questions;
    1 Most people come to Indonesia by boat from Malaysia not by plane. People from places like Burmese Royhina, Sri Lankan Tamils and Afghan Hazzara’s cannot get passports they pay bribes to transit through countries on their way to Indonesia. Its true that some asylum seekers destroy their id its also a fact that some have to give their id to people smugglers or they are not allowed on the boats and many asylum seekers who arrive in Australia come with id.

    2 If true where is your evidence – absolute fact most unlikely – probably something you made or heard about third hand from some right wing shock jock.

  82. Fact check on the ABC, just reported that Kellie, o’dwyer, said Australia comes in at either no.1 or no.2 at accepting refugee’s. The real truth is Australia comes in at no.22…. The lie’s never end !!!!!!

  83. Tanya has just asked Abbott if he will say there will ne no change to pensions. Did not anmnswer question. In fact left the door open for pensioners to be attacked.

  84. FU, going through some blog sites, I get this feeling that a lot of Labor supporters are starting to lose faith in Bill Shorten, what are your thoughts.

  85. After the wonderful response by Edward, I have to agree our 3 Stooges of CW are closet Brown or Black Shirts, which ever secretly takes their preference and they have no idea of History, which will show them what they are, because they are either outright too lazy to do so or they are in fear of what they actually might find.
    It is such, as these 3 Stooges, that Australia is waking up to the level of empathy that such as these show to our fellow Humans. Revolting, it is to witness.
    A community shunning is called for. It is ancient as a punishment, but it works. No one handles being shunned and hangs around to wear the shame of their inhumanity on such display before all and sunder.

  86. Yes Crowey, I have to agree with you.. It also frighterms me. I see us continuing on from the days of Rudd v Gillard. The result will be worse this time is some do to sit down and do some real thinking.

    I think you will have come across sites where I have warned this might be a backward step.

    I am not a Shorten lover, but he was elected for the job. He has made some very good speeches,. I believe Labor is doing t heater right thing up to now. Yes, keeping a low profile so that all focus is pone Abbott.

    I suspect the dislike of Shorten is not how he is performing now, but past sins of the man.

    I cannot see any benefit for the future of Labor by the growing attacks on Shorrten. I should not say this, but it appears to me to be more about private agenda’s of those strongly voicing, what seem to amount to hatred of Shorten.

    Pease explain to me, how these attacks can help or advance Labor.

    Do they want Abbott to remain in power.

  87. Shorten is a man aligned with the USA, which means the Multinational Elite, and not the mind of the Electorate of that Nation (if the truth was dared to be told to the average American, they’d be very scared indeed).
    Till Labor moves him out or he comes forward to show why we would trust him and what he is willing to place on the line, as to if he is genuine, I will not trust Labor whilst he leads, I am sorry to say.
    I am a proud Non-Liberal, because not all of us are complete knobs or Fascists.

  88. The question I once agaun ask, what ius to be gained by attacking Shorten at this tiem. At a time when all focus is on Abbott.

    Has anyone asked Mr. Albanese if he wants the job. I suspect he might be more interested in bringing down Abbott.

    What needs to be done today, is to tell all that are interested, that Abbott refuses to say peniosns and like benefits are now not safe from cuts. Abbott’s answer to the deputy Labor’s leader means that they are indeed at risk.

  89. Maybe the member for Dobell should inform the House on her relations with the state members that have stood down in her area because of police actions.

    Pyne now enjoys himself repeating all history on Thomson.

  90. Pyne, Abbott, Morrison, Hockey, Bishop (the younger), Truss, Sidonis, Cormann – oh bugga it – the entire front bench had better be careful what can of worms they open with the “lying to parliament” attack line. It may just bite them all very hard on the bottom if they’re not careful.

  91. Today is the first day I’ve tuned into ABC24’s question time, watch it for 15 minutes and that was enough, I though the last 3 years were bad, Bronwyn Bishop is an absolute joke as speaker, and the whole house has turned into a complete shamble, I pity this Country under Abbott, he’s a total disgrace.

  92. I would add, people are saying nothing new about Shorten. All that some are alleging was out in the public arena before he was elected into the role.

    It is a bit like the minister ask before marrying someone. If any knows or reasons these two cannot marry, speak up now, or forever remain silent.

    The biggest criticism I see of shorten, when people are pressed id that he shows no passion. Har4dly a hanging offense.

  93. Crowey, it concerns me so much, that I have emailed Albanese asking him what he thinks about the fact that some are strongly pushing for him to replace Shorten.

    Will be interesting to see if I get a reply. Maybe others, those pushing for him for the job, should do likewise.

  94. An excerpt from They Thought They Were Free – The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer
    But Then It Was Too Late
    What no one seemed to notice was the ever-widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.
    What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.
    This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
    The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
    To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
    How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
    Your ‘little men,’ your Nazi friends, were not against National Socialism in principle. Men like me, who were, are the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemöller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing; and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something—but then it was too late.
    You see, one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
    Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
    And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
    Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
    You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined.
    Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.

  95. Shorten helped bring down Rudd and then brought subsequently brought down Gillard. He was so cowardly with Gillard that he asked the people whose votes he controlled to vote for Rudd while he backed Gillard they refused and he had to come clean. In an interview shortly after Gillard was deposed he said that he had lost many friends in the labor party and its about the only honest thing that he has ever said. He has more enemies than friends in the Labor party and until he is gone there will be wide divisions.

    Labor rank and file wanted Albonese as leader but Shorten got the job after eight members from the left changed allegiances voted with the right, yet another back room deal by the faction leaders. Added to this his performance as opposition leader has been mediocre at best but as much as you can expect from a tarnished union hack.

  96. Fed up and,

    Crowey, it concerns me so much, that I have emailed Albanese asking him what he thinks about the fact that some are strongly pushing for him to replace Shorten.

    And it’s because if one single word is spoken then next day it will be published in the Daily Telegraph as “Shorten to be replaced as leader”.

    We’ve been there and done with that, and that’s the thing which most undermined the Labor Party, and it was leadership speculation. The msm were able to turn it into the next episode of The Bolt and the Beautiful.

  97. OK JohnB let’s see you not be a hypocrite for once.

    You railed on about the money the asylum seekers cost us if they were allowed into Australia, so how about railing even more about the insane $9.5 billion the Abbott government has allocated to offshore detention for the next three years?

    That’s right, $9.5 billion. And do you know what’s worse?

    That figure doesn’t include the cost of the Navy and Customs, the $1.1 million for the next two years given to special envoy Molan, the Liberal party’s missing in action friend and architect of the tow back policy and additional expenses for offshore processing.

    Come on right wingnuts, you have to be absolutely angry at that obscene figure, especially since you went on and on about Labor waste so much.

    It would cost five times less to process the onshore and if the processing was expedited and asylum seeker found jobs and founded businesses with a relatively short time as they had in the past, that cost would be way less again.

    Yet here we have the right wingers crowing about how successful this government is, murder and all, which Morrison has blamed on Labor by the way. Shit if you call throwing away $9.5 billion in three years for something that can be done five times cheaper for a better outcome then the last thing I would be doing is crowing about it.

    Abbott government, the most wasteful and worst ever.

  98. Mobius, on the money that refugees cost Australia..I suspect that the people to speak to is their local dentist Dr. Nguyen or perhaps the top Australian students who have surnames of middle eastern and eastern european origin.

    The right whingers would spend millions of dollars, cut their mothers off from the old age pension…as long as it meant not one single darkie reached our shores. And that’s the sum of it.

  99. This financial year with 10,000 in offshore and onshore detention and community detention it will cost $5.1 billion. In the community with full Centerlink benefits, medicare and transport concessions it would cost $38,000 per person and if they allowed them to work it would cost far less.

  100. Oh for fuck sake, this is stupid. Just give the money to the UNHCR and they would be able to properly look after and process the asylum seekers, meaning they wouldn’t have flee he camps and put their fate into the hands of people smugglers.

    Transfield annual budget to run a few offshore detention centres = $1.22bn
    UNHCR’s entire SE Asia budget to look after numerous refugee camps and hundreds of thousands of refugees = $167 million.

    Of course that doesn’t win political points for the inhumane party, who encouraged the boats in opposition and is sending them back in government.

    By the way evidence is that local invaded the Manus Island camp and Morrison knew about it a week ago. No wonder he’s going to have an enquiry into Labor and use Howard’s go to boy to head it, it’s a diversion away from his part in a murder.

  101. The UNHCR has 35 million refugees in its camps world wide and their budget for 2013 was $5 billion – slightly less they we will spend this year.

    We have also asked Cambodia (after probably threatening to reduce their aid) to resettle some of the asylum seekers judged to be genuine refugees – a country with an unemployment rate of 85%.
    Meanwhile with have had an across the board reduction of 8% in promised funding to welfare groups including Save the Children and the Fred Hallows Foundation.
    Over $700 million has been cut from our aid budget and directed to our asylum seeker budget – started by Labor expanded by the LNP.

  102. Watching QandA, I do not think Abbott can rely of Palmer for much. Love his answer re penalty rates. Yes, he supports them. Know why, because it is out of hours that this industry make most of their money. It is the hard work of his staff, that allow this to happen, Therefore he believes his workers should share in the profits made on w/e etc.

    Will people ask the likes of Briggs, when he rants on as if he knows what low paid shift workers wants. Ask his this question. “When was the last time you work shift work,?”

  103. Fed up, remember when the scare tactic was “skills shortage” way does Palmer want to put the (now placid) unions offside because Australia simply has not trained enough people to do the job. And THIS is what gives the unions their power – the skills shortage. But of course duh-brained Abbott has now cancelled the trades training program in high schools..sigh..perhaps he would rather that everyone enter the seminary.

  104. Born 1941, I can still recall, as the horrors of Germany and Europe were revealed, most people understood that democracy is fragile, can disappear over night.

    I suspect that most did not understand what happened, but their guts told them, that democracy is fragile, and no one can afford to do nothing.

    We only need to ask ourselves one question, do we like the harsh, bitter and unforgiving society that is rising all around us.

    The likes of this government seem to be able only to govern by creating fear in the community, and demonising all that oppose them.

    We need to look at all policies, with the first question, “would I like that done to me?”

    Watching their faces on QandA, I noticed that when politicians such as Briggs answer with political spiel, there faces dropped.

    What people want is answers, not spin or political spruking.

    They want, as a reporter asked about hockey yesterday, to bed spedifc in his answer. Did not occur by the way

    I suspect many are not interested in politics or policies. They want straight answers, specific answer, in what is going on.

    They want the politicking and spin to stop.

    Labor has to be careful of how they answer. Just saying it as it is, leave the spin and politics up to the government

    People will eventually get the message.

  105. I came home late.. Turned ABC 24 on. Were showing some shots from the G20 meeting. Did not see one shot of Hockey, where others met him eye to eye. Most seem to be making sure they had no contact with him in anyway. Especially showing, was the two that sat beside him in the class picture. They appear embarrassed.

    None of those lovely shots we have seen of Gillard when PM. When all around her, went out of their way to be friendly.

    Did not see Hockey interact with anyone. After all, he chaired the meeting.

  106. Mr. Morrison, it the information you are getting is patchy, I suggest you get on a plane and head north immediately.

    Obvious the PS only answers your questions, telling you what you want to hear. That is if you have left enough in the department, together the information.

  107. “Come on right wingnuts, you have to be absolutely angry at that obscene figure, especially since you went on and on about Labor waste so much.

    It is an obscene figure but i find your morality strange.

    The detention center network was costing $140M/year and of the people in detention only 6 people were boat people around the time the Pacific Solution was abolished. But we did take 13,750 refugees from UNHCR camps.

    This whole mess was created by the ALP and the people who voted for them.

    The only thing wrong with Howards Pacific Solution was that we could have taken more refugees from UNHCR camps.

  108. We need to keep in mind, governments can be voted in with a fair margin after a long time out of power.

    Yes, I recalled that Whitlam only last about three years. Yes, took two elections to get rid of him. The difference with WHiltam and this government, Whitlam built, and most still stands today. Of course they are doing their best to kill off Medicare, but I suspect it will survive.

    Abbott is a destroyer, Demolisher. Cannot see him surviving. With Abbott, we have another new situation., We have a PM that has been elected with very little positive support in respect. The honey moon was none existent. He never had any good will to lose.

    Yes, we will have a horror budget. One only had to listen to Abbott today.

    What we will also have, is a proper budget reply from the Opposition., One that outlines how this government can get the same result without punishing those at the bottom, and sending the economy into a downfall.

    I did not get the impression that many are supporting Hockey’s effort over the last weekend. I got the impression that most are trying to distance themselves from him.

    Considering Hockey was chairing the meet, I did not see on phote of hoim meeting others. Not one.

  109. I’m 58, and in my time i can’t think of a worse government. But what really annoys me are these RWNJs, who bitch and moan, and abuse us and the previous government. And when we ask what is right about this government, they go quiet for a while, then bitch and moan and abuse us and the previous government. Yep ground hog day every day.

  110. Well, this government has decided to take less. Only 13,500 to be exact. Labor was taking 27,000, even open to 30.000

    How do you explain this.

    They are not about stopping boats. They are about stopping refugees., Even under Labor, our intake was down the ladder at 22. With this government we will be even lower. This, in spite of the numnbersfleeing for their lives growing.

    How many tens of thousands are that little island off Italy takes every month?

    Us taking less, does not stop people fleeing for their lives. It just leaves them with no hope of a safe haven.

  111. “This, in spite of the numnbersfleeing for their lives growing.

    They have safe haven in Indonesia and have a lot of money for a refugee.

    And i doubt they are refugees. Many are military types who know how to milk the system. Even Bob Carr says they are economic immigrants.

    Howards policy was better. We take our refugees from UNHCR camps.

    The USA has 15 million Mexicans living illegally. Not one is a refugee. However the Mexicans are desperate people wanting a better life.

    “I’m 58, and in my time i can’t think of a worse government”

    You would say the same thing about any Coalition govt. For me the Rudd/Gillard govt was an abomination that just wasted all the money that Howard/Costello saved.

    Same thing happened to Kennet. He rescued Victoria from the Cain/Kirner mess and then lost govt. Best to be like Labor. Just spend like crazy and don’t worry about debt.

  112. Round and Round 🙄 …… don’t you get dizzy NoS. It must be the blinkers you have on, they send you into a spin……. The inability to learn thingy must be hard for you…even with provided links 🙄 …poor NoS, it would seem that your not smart enough to know how dumb you are….. truly!!!
    Howard set this country back decades Neil….. WAKE THE FUCK UP. :fishslapsmiley:

  113. “The inability to learn thingy must be hard for you…even with provided links

    You really are strange people. You are bellyaching about the enormous cost of detention. And i agree. But all these people were locked up by Labor and the people who voted for them. Hopefully Morrison can empty the Rudd/Gillard detention centers but it may take a long time.

    There were only 6 boat people in detention in 2008. In a burst of morality and chest beating Labor abolished the Pacific Solution and created all this mess.

  114. Australia’s treatment of asylum seekers sent to offshore processing centers is cruel, inhuman and degrading and it violates international law, the United Nations’ human rights office said Friday.

    It called for an investigation and punishment of those responsible for an outbreak of violence at a center in Papua New Guinea that houses asylum seekers sent there after trying to get to Australia.

    Clashes between inmates and guards at the Manus Island processing center in Papua New Guinea this week left one person dead and 77 injured. Ravina Shamdasani, a spokeswoman for the United Nations human rights office in Geneva, noted reports that private security guards employed at the Manus Island center were involved in the violence and added that “states maintain their human rights obligations when they privatize delivery of services such as security, and must take steps to investigate, redress and punish human rights abuses by third parties.” Prime Minister Tony Abbott elected in 2013 partly on the promise of a tough policy toward migrants and asylum seekers, said the government would not succumb to “moral blackmail” and would ensure that the camps were run “fairly, if necessary, firmly.”

  115. Neil, do have any idea of the amount of money being spent by this government on their so called, military led Soverign Birders.

  116. More. Maybe someone can justify what is happening. I cannot.

    …………Stoutly defending his immigration minister, Scott Morrison, the prime minister insists we “don’t want a wimp” running border protection, effectively casting asylum policy as a kind of macho duel, Scott v Smugglers.

    But this “goodies and baddies” style analysis (smugglers = bad, Scott = good because stopping the boats will stop drownings) leaves out the 2,400 men, women and children who have been sent to offshore detention camps on Nauru and Manus Island. They are effectively collateral damage, the human cost of the bipartisan policy at the time of the last election to “stop the boats”, the people whose misery was precisely the message politicians wanted to deter others from coming.

    I can understand that information from a wild night-time riot is going to be sketchy, that it will take time to assemble a full picture.

    What I cannot understand, with one man dead and scores more injured, is how the government can continue to assure us that Australia is able to carry out its legal and moral duty of care for the safety of asylum seekers in the centre.

    Last week M…….

    If anyone is interested, catch up on Newsline. ABC

  117. The boats haven’t stopped. One nearly made it to Australia in the last week but they were put in a $70,000 life boat and towed back to Indonesia. The boat was found on a beach and the asylum seekers taken to a nearby village.

    So despite all the harshness and even the murder of refugees by this government they still attempt to get here.

    A short piece I caught the tail end of this morning is that apparently the DPP has stopped prosecuting people smugglers as there is no money in the budget for it.

    Will try to find out the full story.

  118. If the polls are anything to go by, blaming Labor for everything and having all these stacked enquiries into Labor is failing big time.

    Or more likely it’s because this government is failing so badly as the worst this country has ever seen, they are attempting to divert attention away from their failures by having lots of very expensive enquiries into Labor.

  119. OK right wingers tell us how you can justify this move by this wanton government.

    Generational fishermen are reporting the best catches they have had since 1990 of the highest quality they have ever seen, and all on the most valuable targeted species. They are reaching their quotas a month earlier than normal.

    This is attributed to the massive Marine Parks set up by Labor, another great success by them.

    Yet Abbott is going to remove all the Marine Parks put in place Labor, thus in the long term destroying the fishing industry and marine environment.

    How does that make any sense?

  120. Fed Up

    They are not about stopping boats. They are about stopping refugees., Even under Labor, our intake was down the ladder at 22. With this government we will be even lower. This, in spite of the numnbersfleeing for their lives growing.

    “Stop the Boats” says Abbott & Co endlessly – snappy little slogan easily remembered by people too busy to think, besides

    “Stop People Drowning” doesn’t have the same kind of panache, now does it. For a start it reminds people that it is men, women and children risking their lives on leaky boats to reach a place of safety.

    “Stop the Boats” does nothing to address the problem of people fleeing for their lives – its sweep under the carpet slogan, out of sight out of mind thinking – doesn’t solve any problems, is costing Australia mega $ – of which both Labor and Libs are guilty (although in Labor’s favour they did not repeat a nasty little lie of a slogan that “stop the boats” is.

    While neither major party’s look particularly good from this ‘Pacific Solution’ (a Howard term that is as fascist as anything any far right government has uttered).

    Fact is, the Liberals are in charge now, if they were the adults they claimed to be, surely checking on conditions on the detainee camps which they fully supported would be an essential part of their watch.

    The buck stops with whoever is in charge.

    We can all bleat about past wrongs, but that is not solving the situation.

    I used to be in charge of renovating public housing stock (this is how I got to meet many immigrants), sometimes work was not done properly, the contractor would come to me trying to explain away whatever the issue was (the less responsible ones, that is). I didn’t have time to waste on who did what and whose fault it was – that was for the contractor to sort out, my role was to ensure the work was done to the mandated standards. My response to such contractors was that I didn’t want excuses I wanted the work done properly and within an agreed time (obviously if there are stuff-ups, one has to reschedule – up to a point after which the building contractor was risking his continued contract).

    I would simply thank them for keeping me informed and tell them to get the work done. All of my projects were completed in time, on budget and I had the reward of seeing people move into quality liveable housing – unfortunately this type of work is not happening much now. Public housing developments are eyed as mega $ opportunities by developers and have far more influence with government leaders than a mere project manager.

    Both Labor and Liberals have sold themselves out to the $ of corporatism. The major difference is that Labor can change – it is capable of vision, progress it doesn’t repeat empty slogans that the LNP seems to think passes for political vision.

    Arguing about the past and casting blame around does not fix the problem. Our leaders need to pull their respective digits out and get on with the job.

  121. Well Neil so refugee numbers were down under Howard and as they fell world wide so Howard was a real miracle worker. Push factors increased substantially under Labor and refugee numbers increased worldwide so I guess that’s Labor’s fault as well.

    Attached to America’s coattails we go into countries stuff them up completely and people like you feel we have no responsibility for the results of our actions. Our international reputation is trashed when we make headlines in the US and China lectures us on human rights.

    If all these people are economic refugees can you explain why over 90% have been judged to be genuine refugees and the voluntary return rate from our offshore concentration camps is less than 1.5% even though they are offered free flights home and $3,300 to help them resettle.

    Quoting Bob Carr- what a joke – he said – and Abbott agrees – all Tamils are economic refugees – so why did we support a US led censure motion against Sri Lanka in the UN last year and why are we going to support a further motion by the US this year – and why hasn’t Abbott sent all the ones in Australia back to Sri Lanka who will accept forced repatriations – because if he tried the High Court would do the same as the UK high when they stopped deportations from there – rule against the government because of the systematic ongoing human rights abuses in Sri Lanka.

    Can you also tell my why when the government gives a negative assessment to an asylum seeker claim and tries to deport the people a soon as they have lawyers rather than go to court they change the assessment to positive and give them refugee status.

    What to save money – offshore detention for one year for one person $570,000 on benefits in Australia $38,000 and why not give them work rights on their visa’s and have them paying tax instead of living on welfare.

  122. I predicted a long time ago, that a position would be found for Pell in Rome.

    I do hope he does not have input into his successor.

    I wonder why the Pope did not take the opportunity to give us a new cardinal in his recent rounds, After all, out population has grown greatly since our first cardinal was created.

  123. ME, that is the problem. Nothing this government makes any sense, especially when it comes to money. Yes, the only reason seems to be vengeance. All put in place by that pesky redhead has to go. Everything.

    History has shown that most PM when elected to quickly drop what they said or did g before the elections.

    Mt. Caldwell’s biggest whine was that Menzies discredit everything he proposed, only to put his 0policies in p [lace at the first opportunity.

    Most political leaders know that all the opposition proposes is not bad.

    This mob has no respect of any idea or view that differs from theirs.

    What drives this mob seems to be vengeance and hate. They seem to have a driving obsession, not only to win, but they destroy their opponents.

  124. So Chrissy Pyne and Abbott are going for a formal apology to those (Sarcasm alert) doyens of union integrity; Williamson, Kathy Jackson etc… 😯

    I wonder if Kathy Jackson will be able to use it as a character reference if and when she is brought to for the $$$$$$$ she misappropriated from the HSU for things like; Child care, cars, consultancy services etc, not to mention cash advances that make Thomson’s look like piggy bank change? 😉

    Cheers 😀

  125. Fed Up

    I do have to wonder whether Pell can be recalled to give evidence in the RC into child abuse, as becomes necessary. All rather timely an appointment otherwise.

    Somehow don’t see him as being of like mind with Pope Francis – then what goes on in the Vatican…

  126. “This is attributed to the massive Marine Parks set up by Labor, another great success by them.

    I would be surprised if that was true. I found this

    Director of Australia Marine Conservation society, Darren Kindleysides says marine parks used to have bi-partisan support.

    “The whole process which lead to the creation of the marines reserves… started under the Howard Government.

    “The Howard Government established 22 marine reserves.”

    So the marine parks were started by the Howard government.

  127. I must say that I was somewhat stunned that Pell has received “a promotion” given his admission of coverups of child abuse. I clearly recall Pell’s excuse for one paedophile priest, he blamed the victim stating that the 12 or 13 year old girl was “wise beyond her years”. However, Pell has now been removed from pastoral duties and moved to finance.

  128. A few comments asking why Abbott’s so anti everything etc. I’ve thought for a while now that he & his installers see this as a singular opportunity to destroy the Left in this country. Their opponents & those other unfortunates in the way, even some of their allies, will be ridden down in the process, the idea being that a more compliant & generally right thinking nation will eventually emerge from the wreckage.
    Abbott’s the perfect installation for this as his one undisputed talent is for wrecking things.

  129. Carol who cares, it’s a promotion that gets Pell out of this country and our media, plus away from directly controlling Abbott as one of his puppet masters.

    In my time in the Navy I knew many who were promoted out of positions because they were bad at their jobs. It made them someone else’s problem or at best it put them in a position to do less damage and where they could be watched.

    This I believe is what’s happened with Pell.

  130. Abbott is heading in the opposite direction to many policies implemented and/or encouraged by John Howard.

    Including throwing out Howard’s Pacific Solution proving that it was a failure.

    Abbott constantly shows what a failure Howard was.

  131. Mr, Scott and ABC get roasted in Senate Hearings.

    First the burnt hands, then New Years Eve Now Four Corners,

  132. “OK right wingers tell us how you can justify this move by this wanton government.


    That post of yours at 8.06AM is a total load of crap. Those marine parks were all started by the Howard govt. Approx one million square kilometers. Therefore all those good things you mentioned were because of the Howard govt.

    Labor wanted to triple in size the marine reserves and that is what the Abbott govt is opposing.

  133. Senator Wong have battle r4oyal on conflict of interest, re that government aid that had to resign.,

    Another Minister refusing to answer questions

  134. Why is the se\nator wasting so much time, asking all questions about Julia Giallrad and Mr. Teirman., She is no longer around. Same type of dirt trolling at another committee site.

  135. Even that inquiry that Morrison released, has in its terms of reference what happened under Mr. Burke., What has that to do, with what is occurring today.

    Yes, all we are hearing about is that Ms., Gillard had poor [rofessional practices. Is it not time to let Gillard go, they are now going back to 2012.

  136. “neil, do you want the marine parks or not ? I doub’t if i will get an answer ?

    We already have them Most were created by the Howard govt. Howard created 22 marine reserves. Almost one million square kilometers.

    That post by Mobius at 8.06AM was a load of crap from beginning to end. I don’t think there was a single correct statement in that post.

    Mobius should apologise to everybody for publishing crap like that.

  137. Of course, Mr, Cormnann is leading the charge.,

    After Mr. Abbots actions with Labopr Cabinet papers, one has to wonder how many they have perused.. I have heard the government ask questions, using information and figures that could have only come from those papers. I have also heard PS say they are questions they cannot and should not answer. Not so today. The PS is trying to answer all.

    Now wants all records of Comcar used last year.

  138. The Special Minister of State, is I am afraid an idiot.

    Senator Faulkner and Wong are having as much trouble getting sense out of him, as we do of some here.

  139. “This is attributed to the massive Marine Parks set up by Labor, another great success by them.”

    Too funny. Rudd/Gillard did not set up any marine parks.

    The Howard Government delivered the world’s first Oceans Policy and major marine parks in the Great Australian Bight, Australia’s south-east marine region around Tasmania, around our sub-Antarctic islands, and greatly increased protection of the Great Barrier Reef. A number of Australia’s major fisheries were rationalized and restructured, underpinned with a multimillion-dollar package to provide the necessary graceful exits. One of the biggest legislative reform agendas in Australia’s history was delivered with the creation of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act. Fish became recognized as wildlife not just a commercial commodity and hundreds of millions of dollars were invested through the National Heritage Trust in Australia’s first national program for coast and marine protection and rehabilitation.”

    Mobius you should apoligise for your false statements.

  140. neil you wrote a hell of a lot but still did not answer my question, do you want to keep the marine parks or do you want to get rid of them, like abbott does ? who’s side are you on, howards or abbotts /

  141. I have no idea if the marine parks created by Howard should be extended. Labor wanted to take them from 1 million square kilometres to 3 million square kilometers. It is not something i have any expertise in.

  142. yes michael, for someone who has no idea, he did an awful lot of writing about this subject. he doe’s not know if we should keep them. extend them. or get rid of them. My hunch is he will agree with whatever abbott says. and if howard disagree’s , he will agree with both of them.. But never labor.

  143. Neil, Labor added greatly to those marine parks. Abbott is now taking away.

    In senate hearings yesterday, this government spent hours digging dirt on Gillard. Maybe if they concentrated on the job they were elected to do, they would manage better.

    Two days this week, parliament has no legislation to debate.

    Why are they so obsessed in completely destroying the reputation of Gilard. The voter has passed their opinion. Time to let the last go.

  144. What’s Neil going about in the Marine Parks? They were first established by Keating so I guess he must be praising Labor for that and now condemning Abbott for allowing fishing in those Marine Parks, including in known fish hatcheries, which defeats the entire purpose of a marine park.

    Oh shit, I forgot we are talking about Neil here, of course he wouldn’t give any deserved kudos to Labor and is probably attempting to spin it as some great plus for the Liberals.

    No need to respond, I already know what he’s going on about without reading him.

    Of course this doesn’t address the destruction of the Great Barrier Reef by both Newman and Abbott.

    The Liberals have always been eco-terrorist, putting money and development ahead of any environment no matter how bad the impact or long term damage to country and negative impacts on generations down the track.

    Such a short sighted selfish bunch of liars and thieves.

  145. It’s not just Gillard Fu, it’s anything Labor. Like Pynes utterly ridiculous apology to parliament over Craig Thomson.

    As one senior political commentator, Bongiorno, stated yesterday this government is all about doing everything to make mud stick to Labor so ingrain in people’s minds they are a corrupt party not deserving of their votes.

    Just more right wing projection when most know it’s the Liberals who are corrupt and the liars, which Abbott proved again in spades the other day in breaking two more major promises.

    As stated, the Liberal party’s sole purpose is to perpetuate the Liberal party. In other words they are neo-fascists and would rather see democracy undermined than embrace it, unless democracy was something they could manipulate for their own gains, which is also something we are seeing them and their state counterparts doing at the moment.

  146. “They were first established by Keating so I guess he must be praising Labor for that and now condemning Abbott for allowing fishing in those Marine Parks

    Most were started by Howard. But most people say the starting point for the creation of these Marine Parks is 1998/99 for some reason. 90% of the Marine Parks were started by the Howard govt.

    You said this

    “This is attributed to the massive Marine Parks set up by Labor, another great success by them.

    The massive Marine Parks were set up by Howard.

    “and is probably attempting to spin it as some great plus for the Liberals.”

    Yes. See my post at 10.39PM

    One of the biggest legislative reform agendas in Australia’s history was delivered with the creation of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act.”

  147. One should listen to Abbott. One should help those who have less. Yes, that is the point of the progressive tax system. My, words, he is saying we should help those who cannot help themselves.

    Seems this brief only belongs to farmers and Qantas.

    Of course, Qantas had done the right thing by putting the boot into workers. In fact Qantas is doing better, they are taking their need for workers off shore.

    Once again, saying Coca Cola shall have rescued SPC. Sorry, the parent company offers us a solution to keep the workers in this country employer. I suspect Abbott has no feelings for workers whatever. In his eyes, they are disposable.

    Another question, why is the good General above criticism. All others that sit in that seat at Senate Committee Hearings are not so protected.

    Whether he is in the army or not, the job he is doing, is in the civilian sector. We are not at war.

  148. Yes, lows that no one could ever have believed.

    …Gittins: Politicians behaving badly
    When it comes to standards of political behaviour, our politicians seem locked in a race to the bottom. Ross Gittins comments.
    Autoplay OFFONVideo feedbackVideo settings
    SMH Comment – full coverage
    We are witnessing history being made. Unfortunately, it’s a history-making decline in standards of political behaviour. At least it proves we’re not merely imagining that things were better in the old days.
    Tempting though it is, one of the things incoming governments don’t do is delve into the affairs of their predecessor. The papers of the old government aren’t made available to the new masters. But all that is out the window with the Abbott government’s decision to establish a royal commission into the Rudd government’s handling of the home insulation program and provide it with Labor’s cabinet docum…….

    Read more:

  149. Yes, it seems the the MSM might even be stirring.

    …..The man who set new lows in negativity and obstructionism in opposition is now taking us to new lows in government. In a more godly world, Labor would resist the temptation to sink to the level of misbehaviour set by its opponents, thus giving substance to its repeated claims of moral superiority. But so intense is the competition between the parties that this seems unlikely. Last week Bill Shorten promised to lead a constructive opposition and not oppose everything for the sake of it. It’s a wonderful resolve – one which, if lived up to, many voters would find attractive – but I fear it’s another take from Tony Abbott: almost tearful promises to sin no more, followed by an immediate resumption……..

    Read more:

  150. If one bothered to listen to senate committee hearings and QT, one would not be surprised at Conroy’s outburst. One would only question why someone has not called it was it is sooner. This government seems to believe it f does not have to answer questions. Full stop.

    Even the mildest inquiries are getting no response.

    On top of that, they have to sit and be abused throughout the day.

    All questions from the government side consist of dirt gathering of the previous government from the user of Comcars to whether somonesd visa was legal.

    No questions on matters of today.

    Senator Corey is a leading offender.

    Sorry, this government is made up of bully\ies with little or no ability.

  151. No one seems concerned that Trransfield was hired without no tender called.

    No one is concerned, that’s about handing over Labor Cabinet papers without Brandis being informed.

    No one is concerned that MacFarlane was running around the country, saying he believed there would be a deal with GMH while Hockey and others were challenging GMH to go.

    Who makes the decision in this government.

    Obviously not ministers or cabinet.

    After listening to Bowles yesterday, it appears the department of immigration, has no idea of what is occurring ion Manus., Why is not Morrison on to a plane north, yesterday.

  152. The failures of this woeful government continue to rack up at a dizzying rate. If a fraction of this occurred under Labor, along with the string of broken promises, lies and undermining of democracy, the right wingers would be baying for blood, so how come they are silent?

    Underemployment has gone significantly higher since Abbott got into power and yet another major firm, the 105 year old AWA is closing shop in this country.

    Abbott’s dream of fascist led country full of massive mining pits surrounded by barren and decimated eco systems and Australian industries is well on the way.

  153. OPPOSITION leader Tony Abbott is urging rural independent MPs to ditch their support for Prime Minister Julia Gillard, accusing her of using the floods to mask her government’s spending addiction.

    In a speech to the Young Liberals convention on the Gold Coast today, Mr Abbott ramped up his criticism of the federal government’s flood levy to rebuild Queensland’s infrastructure.

    Can a right winger tell us why the Australian Government Disaster Recovery Payment to help Queenslanders directly affected by floods was heavily lambasted and Abbott criticised it wanting it stopped as a waste of tax payers money, yet Abbott’s $320 million drought relief, which as around the same amount, is the best thing a government has ever done?

  154. Steven, I believe the wife is playing Abbott for the fool he is. Just being nice, is leaving the man confused.

    As for Conroy’s behavior, he is just the first on the opposition side, to say enough is enough.

    I asked my local member when were they going to walk out, She said they could not, and then mumbled something about Beasley, and walking out., I do not remember that.

    At least Burke today, is saying what he thinks, Not that they have the power to take it anywhere.

    When one looks at the comments on the above site, most are anti Abbott.

    Conroy’s action seems to have hit a chord within the community.

    By the way, this Army General has played in political roles before. His job at the moment is civilian,

    Steven would you like your wife, if you had one, exposed to Abbott?

  155. ….They argued some of the documents were protected by law while it was not in the public interest for others to be released.

    A witness for the government, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet first assistant secretary Angus Campbell, said the options paper was an initial draft.

    “The document is incomplete – it contained factual inaccuracies later identified by some of the departments,” he told the tribunal………….

  156. No fed up, abbott is just a creepy bastard ! I was glad to see conroy say what we all have been thinking, The general has allowed himself to be used by this corrupt government. that makes him corrupt as far as i can see. What a stinking lousy government this lot is ! And david Hurley’s opinion is just garbage in my eye’s ! Labor must attack an never stop attacking !

  157. Steven we also must play the ball not the man, Better results that way.

    Also, we must avoid home goals.,

    Labor has not been away from the election, just laying low, waiting for the right issues to fight.

    Many appear to dislike Shorten for the.bastard they see in him. Maybe we need a bastard to beat a bastard.

    In spite of the MSM, the public has seen the government warts and all. Mostly warts I would say.,\

    It is still a long way to go.,

  158. “Möbius Ecko”
    Had a go at answering my questions.

    1 Should Australia accept any/every asylum seeker who comes by boat?
    A Only the ones that are legitimate, as they had been doing for decades now.
    Oh goody, we have an answer.

    2 What is Australia’s capacity for these arrivals (how many is too many)?
    A They are a fraction of the immigration intake, one full MCG in a decade or more. Other countries that are poorer and/or smaller than us take in far larger numbers.
    The numbers we resettle may well be a fraction of the migrant intake, but if we are to accept all those who arrive and are found legitimate as you suggested in item 1, then 2012 and 2013 would have meant about 30,000 resettlements (90% of arrivals) which represents the entire refugee quota we’ve had per year, for some time. It also represents more than an MCG in a decade.

    3 Do we “process” them (confirm eligibility for asylum) or do we take them at their word?
    A We have always processed them for eligibility, it’s why they are held in detention for a period before being released into the community. That question shows either you utter ignorance or deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
    Just checking whether you agree with Paul Keating’s immigration detention idea.
    Of course you do, it was Keating wot came up with it.

    4* What taxpayer funded benefits should legitimate asylum seekers receive, ie full unemployment benefits, medicare, education etc?
    A The same they have always gotten, which is slightly less than an Australian citizen gets. But then resettled asylum seekers go on to get jobs and set up businesses fairly quickly, unlike many of the immigrants who come into this country legally.
    Just checking again. I am against a “second class” citizen situation and I don’t believe we should host a million refugees with no support, like we see in Lebanon & Pakistan and some other places.

    5 What should be the social security “budget” for providing all these benefits for asylum seekers?
    A That’s just a repeat of question 4 put a different way and again shows either your stupidity or a deliberate misrepresentation.
    No, it’s an entirely different question you idiot. It goes to NATIONAL BUDGET allocations.

    6 Who is gonna pay for it?
    A Again a repeat of 4 and 5. So like all typical right wingers you put money ahead of humanity. It’s the most important thing in your life, as much as you may aver it not to be.
    Whatever we do, someone’s going to have to pay for it, you fool.
    We may have the best intentions in the world, but if it simply cannot be paid for, what’s the answer. Do we ask all the doctors and refugee workers to work for no pay ?

    Let me put it this way JohnB. An asylum seeker found to be legitimate, and that turns out to be well over 90% historically, will cost the tax payer around $38,000pa until they get work or set up businesses.
    Indeed, but we are also supporting them if they DON’T set up businesses or want to work and we want all to be able to integrate, learn English and be employable.
    On your figures of social security and the last two Labor years of asylum seeker arrivals, we’re adding 640 million dollars per year to refugee costs in welfare payments, while we’re dealing with Labor’s economic vandalism.
    We’re not going to be able to do the right thing by anyone if we bankrupt the country.

    Now I wonder who took us to an illegal war and has supported others that has led to many of these asylum seekers?

    2010-11 Permanent resettlement refugees.
    Two of those countries we’re involved in military activities.
    The rest are creating refugees without any help from us!

    Burma 1393
    Iraq 1114*
    Bhutan 1001
    Congo (DRC) 514
    Afghanistan 423*
    Ethiopia 297
    Somalia 144
    Iran 141
    Sri Lanka 78
    Sudan 61
    Others 832
    Total 5998

    In terms of “permanent resettlement” (which differs a bit from hosting refugees)
    Australia resettles the third highest number overall (after USA and Canada) and on a per-capita basis exceeds the USA’s figures.
    (see here

    Someone claimed that Sweden accepted 50,000 refugees in one year.
    These would not be “permanent resettlement” but refugees in Sweden are allowed to work if their refugee processing claims take more than 4 months, and they do receive financial assistance as well. Since Sweden’s figures for permanent resettlement was a bit over 1000 in the year when Australia resettled over 5000, the rest of all those 50,000 refugees in Sweden, would be on something like a TPV, one would assume, with work rights and social security, in a country with a population less than half of Australia.
    Actually, according to one chart,
    Sweden has about 86,000 refugees, with Australia hosting about 24,000. We resettle MORE, on a per capita basis than Sweden, but Sweden offers temporary protection to more people than does Australia.

    Of course the country with the greatest number of refugees is Pakistan, hosting 2.6 million, mainly Afghans, who speak the same or similar language, have a similar religion and culture and, according to some, are basically committing genocide on Hazara Afghans.

  159. Funny but i don’t see shorten as a bastard. Maybe there is a lot that i don’t know about him though… Watching campbells reaction to the conroy accusation, i thought his responce was very meek. in other words if campbell felt he was innocent, then i feel he should have shown some fire in his words.As far as b bishop goes, she needs to throw herself out. I am so sick of this corrupt lot.

  160. SSJ, yes, you’re not alone there mate 😉 they just treat us with contempt. 👿

    Yes, helmet hair has to go, she has taken the office of “Speaker”, and completely trashed it… She doesn’t even understand what a “ruling” is? WTF? 😯

    Cheers 😀

  161. Yes TS, Bishop is just like a one sided referee, she and her cohorts don’t have one ounce of conscience. they will say and do anything to get their own way. I really think they believe all the bullshit they preach. which goes to show how completely fucked in the head they have all become. and allowed themselves to become. Fascism is alive and healthy in this government.

  162. Where did you get your figures from JohnB?

    If you got that wrong straight up all of you stuff is crap. These are the figures for refugees granted visas from the immigration department.

    Category 2008–09 2009–10 2010–11 2011–12 2012–13
    Refugee 6499 6003 5998 6004 12012

    For the 2012-13 period, Australia makes available 190,000 places for immigrants. During the same period, 4,949 ‘boat people’ were granted refugees status in Australia. So refugees who arrive by boat make up just 2.5% of all immigration.

    And through it all the one thing you deliberately avoid is the billions being spent by Abbott on refugees, way more than any onshore or humanitarian program would cost. But for some reason whilst harping on (falsely) about Labor economic vandalism as Abbott is engaging in real economic vandalism, you overlook Abbott’s massive spending including giving a major company $1.2 billion pa in a non tender contract.

    So how do you justify the approximate $1 million total cost per refugee indefinitely, or even the figure of $225,000 just for their detention as compared to $38,000 for a relatively short time or the even cheaper $35,000 if they are settled in rural areas?

    And spraying your posts with abuse of fool and idiot doesn’t do you any favours, especially as your posts reflect typical right wing projection.

  163. We do indeed should take as many genuine asylum seekers as we can.

    If not, we should assess them, and assist them in finding another home. Ignoring people in genuine need is not an option.

    One cannot go along with creating conditions of horror and allowing them to be badly injured or killed.


  164. Möbius Ecko

    Have given up reading :evil:JohnB – simply because the combination of lies and insults is not how I like to spend my time.

    However, I do read people who actually have something to say, as opposed to rhetoric, and the following from your post bears repeating:

    And through it all the one thing you deliberately avoid is the billions being spent by Abbott on refugees, way more than any onshore or humanitarian program would cost. But for some reason whilst harping on (falsely) about Labor economic vandalism as Abbott is engaging in real economic vandalism, you overlook Abbott’s massive spending including giving a major company $1.2 billion pa in a non tender contract..

    Other anomalies from Abbott include the much condemned (from both sides of parliament) PPL scheme that favours those who can afford their own parental leave. The funding of Cadbury’s but not SPC…

    But we know all this. So why do we feel the need to repeat the hypocrisy of the Abbott governments acts in just 5 months of power?

    Because both the Abbott administration and its supporters STILL behave as if Labor was in power.

    To point out what should be bleeding obvious to many LNP supporters – the LNP are in power now – what they do will effect all of Australia NOW and into the future.

    This is why people examine and critique what the LNP are doing NOW. We are not hating – hate is for infants who have not yet learned to share.

    The LNP is not governing for all Australians – this is revealed in what they are doing NOW – which is little more than a brutal game of working towards destroying Labor and paying their dues to the wealthy elite who helped them win power.

  165. Shorten and Albanese on quickly after the Joyce announcement. Have had an extremely long PC. The media are listening and asking in depth questions.

    In return, they are getting in depth answers.

    Yes, and Albanese has forecast what the government response will be.

    Yes, first blame the workers, then carbon, then blame Labor.

  166. The unions and Labor seem to have got in first when it comes to the media. No sign of the government.

    Margo Kingston had a win in court against the Telegraph.

  167. Fed Up

    Thank you for the running news.

    Great News about Margot Kingston – she is the brave woman I would like to be.

  168. FM Bishop offers the government deep regrets on job losses.

    Maybe we need to hear more than their deep regrets.

    Unions and Labor well out in front, with the response to Qantas announcements.

    It appears Mr. Truss is waiting a few days to see what the market reaction is.

  169. “The LNP is not governing for all Australians”

    Maybe someone can let us into the secret of who they are government for., Also I who pulls Abbott’s strings.

    Wonder if we should be following the New Zealand actions. Yes, buying back the airline.

  170. Two weeks ago the government was given the audit report. Seems they condemn PPL. Now that is a surprise. By the way, this report is now leaking. Wonder who is leaking?

  171. Under our fearful leader??? unemployment is going up at a frightening pace, a recession is well and truly on it’s way, Tony Abbott is the ruination of Australia.

  172. John B
    Your questions were answered and just repeating them is asinine.

    Your comments re Sweden are factually incorrect and quoting Wiki as a source does little for your credibility – Australian school students are not allowed to cite Wiki because it is so unreliable.

    Per capita numbers for Australia , wrong again debunked by ABC fact checker and the UNHCR report on asylum trends in 2012.

    There is and never has been an asylum seeker problem it is a politic construct concocted by both major parities to pander to the ignorant and uniformed.

    Where is outrage over the more than 40,000 true illegals, the visa over stayers we have each year, or the thousands of fraudulent 457 visa holders that come to Australia each year.

    Australia is wasting $5 billion a year pursuing a military solution to a humanitarian problem, is now officially engaged in piracy, people smuggling and the trafficking of children, has racked up 151 human rights violations and trashed its international reputation as a fair and just country.

  173. I suspect this is indeed the new morality.

    .Sometimes I suspect many business people regard it as quite ethical to lie and mislead the public, provided they’re lying in the shareholders’ interests. And when you’re laying it on thick to pressure some government into giving you a special deal or an exemption from some measure, you’re always doing it for the shareholders. What’s in the nation’s interests – and whether your special deal would damage the nation’s interests – is not your concern…

  174. Well, we are not alone in understanding what this government is about.

    ………..By Jonathan Gifford on 27 February 2014

    The latest update of a report that assessed 66 countries on their climate change mitigation strategies has singled out Australia as being the only country to wind back national climate legislation.

    The report was complied by Globe International, a body which assesses climate mitigation laws worldwide, and its head, Lord Deben, described moves to abolish the carbon tax in Australia as being “very disappointing” – in an interview with the Financial Times.

    Lord Deben, when he was John Gummer, was a former UK government minister under Prime Ministers Margaret Thatcher and John Major. He has lashed out at the Abbott government’s climate policies as being, “so unintellectual as to be unacceptable; I mean it is just amazing.”

    The British peer’s remarks to the Financial Times, itself hardly a bastion of radicalism, included a stab at the climate analysts from which Abbott bases his climate policy, describing their work as “very dubious.”

  175. Yes, this government is sure in chartge. Of what, I am in the dark.

    .The personal details of more than 10,000 asylum seekers are still publicly available online, more than a week after Immigration Minister Scott Morrison assured the Australian public the leak by the the Department of Immigration and Border Protection (DIBP) had been shut down.


  176. Möbius Ecko
    “FEBRUARY 27, 2014 @ 10:06 AM
    Where did you get your figures from JohnB?”

    Mobius, I included two links.
    One to, for figures published during the Glorious Gillard Prime Ministership (2011).

    The figures from the APH link were the principle figures to which I referred.

    The other link was to a Wikipedia page which noted reference links for its statistics.

    FEBRUARY 27, 2014 @ 10:38 AM
    “Möbius Ecko
    Have given up reading :evil:JohnB – simply because the combination of lies and insults is not how I like to spend my time.”

    Diana, you fool. I don’t lie. I may make mistakes, but I don’t lie and deliberately twist data like the hypocrites of the left. I don’t need to do so.
    I do take the liberty of directing the odd comment at people who clearly indicate, through their behaviour, that they are deserving of some scorn.

    In my comments, I referred to permanent resettlement figures. Australia scores well, in both absolute numbers and per capita, on this. These figures refer to UN classified refugees which are provided permanent resettlement in Australia.

    As far as “refugee intake” figures, we do score lower.
    This appears to be a figure for where refugees are arriving.
    Coincidentally, the largest refugee intakes are generally experienced by countries right next to the source countries. Who woulda thunk it, eh ?
    So Pakistan has refugees from Afghanistan, Lebanon from Syria, and so on.
    There are 2 or 3 or 4 or more countries between Australia and Iran & Syria, so no surprise the figures are lower.

  177. There’s that fool thing again, so full of his own self importance.

    For a person who supposedly doesn’t lie you go out of your way to support the greatest lying leader this country has ever had, who continues to break promise after promise and tell lie after lie. You support a government that’s going out of its way to shroud itself in secrecy to keep its deceits and lies away from the public, with asylum seekers just being one of those areas, and yet that’s something you would never have tolerated from a Labor government.

    The reason you get the data from the excellent Gillard government is that they were fully open and kept the public informed as to each and every asylum seeker. It’s this deceptive and secretive government that is pulling the wool over your eyes, and for some unfathomable reason, something you are willing to blindly accept.

    Strange how you say it’s the left who lie and twist data when so far that has been predominately the domain of the right. More projection and hypocrisy maybe?

    Finally the figure I was talking about that you didn’t provide a link to was the 30,000 one. I gave the table of data for those accepted and can give you the year on year percentage acceptance figures, which averages out to around 92%.

    Taking that as the average it means at the moment this government is inhumanely and illegally by international laws it is a signatory to punishing around 90% of those it is holding in concentration camps. Also asylum seekers who are being lied to as detailed by one DFAT whistle blower the other day, which is also against the international law this government is a signatory to. That is also something this government, Morrison in particular, lied about, again raising the question as to why you have no problems with this government secrecy, lies and deceits yet do have one from those supposed lies from the left?

  178. Steven Subhash James
    FEBRUARY 25, 2014 @ 12:14 AM
    I’m 58, and in my time i can’t think of a worse government.

    Obvious early onset.

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  179. Well The don or Summo or whoever to pretend to be this week, whats it like to be gutless? why are you terrified to tell us who you really are?, and where you live ? do you think we will stalk you ? Oh That’s right your a stalker ! Unlike you and your fascists LNP we don’t stoop to nasty tricks and lie’s. we are a class above you ! are you still in school ? you try to act like a schoolyard bully. and we all know bully’s are nothing but cowards. time for you to grow a brain and a backbone ! Before i forget, yajustgottalaugh at the idiot !

  180. Wasn’t there a mindless, opinionated, RWNJ here shortly after the election bragging about how business would now prosper because we’ve got the “right” government in place?

    Business investment collapsed after the election and worse is to come.

    Official figures released on Thursday show investment slid 5.2per cent in the last three months of last year – the most since the global financial crisis.

    And the plans for 2014-15 are even worse. The estimate financial officers reported to the Bureau of Statistics is 17 per cent down on the estimate for 2013-14 reported a year ago.

    The estimate for mining investment is down 25 per cent, and for manufacturing investment is down 20 per cent.

    The estimate for “other” industries is little changed. ”Other” includes wholesale and retail trade, financial services and communications.

    The ANZ headed its note to clients: “Over the cliff we go”. It says adjusting for typical changes to plans, the actual slide in investment in 2013-14 might be 11 per cent.

    The budget had forecast 0.5 per cent. The midyear budget update downgraded the forecast to a slide of 2 per cent.

    Before the election Coalition shadow treasurer Joe Hockey talked about a surge of optimism.

    “I think companies will unleash their balance sheets, and I think consumers will as well if there is a change of government,” he told a business briefing.

    “I am very mindful that we don’t want to be the ones that close down that optimism.”

  181. Second week in a row the parliament ran out of legislation to debate.

    What a fucked up lazy government. Then again the way they are stuffing everything up big time it might be a good thing they aren’t trying to put through legislation with Abbott spending most of his time in the private gym he had installed near his office.

  182. Since the time of the election, Hockey and Co have upped their talking down of the economy.

    Al we have heard, is how bad Labor was, how dire is the economy that Labor left.

    We have seen them sit by, and let industry go to the wall, giving the message that saving jobs are not on their agenda.

    Can one wonder, then, that confidence in the econ0my is in downfall.

  183. oh the don, sounds like you have been peeping through my bathroom window, AGAIN. now who is gay, me thinks you protest to much ! time for you to come out of the closet; yep, you have just proved once again. you are a stalker ! and to much of a coward to revel yourself. yep, your just chicken shit !

  184. I’ll be blunt. Tony Abbott and Clive Palmer are about to throw all the corporate money they can at winning big in the WA election recount.

    The latest figures show the WA Liberals received four times as many big donations as WA Labor, most of them from corporates, mining lobbyists, big tobacco and right-wing think tanks.

    If you want to hold Abbott accountable, and stop our Senate from being bought by corporate coin – then I need your help to fund a strong, state-wide campaign in the biggestandone of most conservative states in Australia. Click here to help.

    This contest will be tough. And it will be expensive. This isn’t your everyday by-election. We will get out on the ground street to street, door to door and voter to voter – but in this by-election we have to cover an entire state. That means television, radio and print ads. It means cars and petrol. It means phones and computers to coordinate volunteers across 2.6 million square kilometres of space.

    No one was budgeting on any of this, but when the AEC lost enough votes for the election results to be considered void by the High Court, they left us no choice. And unlike the conservatives we’re up against, we can’t turn to our mates for blank cheques.

    So it comes down to us to seize this last opportunity to shape our Parliament under the next three years of an Abbott Government – a government I believe will prove to be one the most extreme Australia has ever seen.

    Every dollar we can give now to stand up to them before it’s too late is well spent.

    Thanks for your generous support,

    George Wright
    National Secretary

    Labor Party

  185. Cornie

    …unlike the conservatives we’re up against, we can’t turn to our mates for blank cheques…

    The fact that the LNP & Palmer can simply ‘buy’ whatever they need to run a campaign is reason enough to vote against them – who do these people represent? – the big end of town, the 1%, only themselves.

    Anyone on middle income or lower are voting against their own long term interests if they vote LNP. The result for the senate is crucial to bring back some balance to the out of control Abbottoir.

  186. Don projecting and laughing at himself again. Better watch it, doing it so often could have the men in white coats taking an interest.

  187. methinks ME is the same fact it is obvious. see you both at the Kris Kristofferson concert 😉

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  188. What is going on. Why does this government feel they do not need to call tenders?

    …..In a report released in November, the British National Audit Office revealed G4S paid zero corporation tax in Britain in 2012. The same year the Australian Taxation Office paid G4S’ local arm a cash refund of about $2.2 million.
    Boyd said G4S paid tax where it earned its income, ”in full accordance with the taxation laws of the countries concerned”.
    He said a ”significant proportion” of the company’s network of subsidiaries in tax havens including the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, the Netherlands Antilles and Luxembourg were ”normal operating or holding companies”.
    Transfield’s offshore detention contract appears much fatter than the deal struck by G4S.
    Under the old Transfield and G4S contracts, the government was paying about $39 million a month to run the two centres.
    The new contract increases that figure to about $61 million a month, or about $900 a day per prisoner – more than it costs to rent a harbour view suite at the luxury Shangri-La Hotel in Sydn.

    Read more:

  189. Sounds like employyers. Taking a bigger cut, withou growing the pie. Taking it from the worker, is their ain.

    ….I hope by now you understand why the Abbott government’s talk of all the damage the mining tax is doing to the economy is tosh, intended to mislead the economically undereducated. (Which is not to say Labor’s tax was well designed – it wasn’t.)
    It’s rational for workers to be ”rent-seekers” in the sense that they equip themselves with scarce skills and work hard at being the best in their field. Similarly, it’s rational for firms to seek out niches where prices far exceed costs.
    But that’s not what the term ”rent-seeker” – which comes from the libertarian ”public choice theory” – is usually taken to mean. It refers to groups that lobby the government for tax, spending or regulatory policies that benefit the lobbyists at the expense of taxpayers or consumers, or their rivals.
    As The Economist magazine puts it in its business dictionary, it means ”cutting yourself a bigger slice of the cake rather than making the cake bigger”..,

    Read more:

  190. Möbius Ecko
    “FEBRUARY 28, 2014 @ 5:31 PM
    Second week in a row the parliament ran out of legislation to debate.”

    Quick, make something up, make something up.
    It worked for Labor “over x hundred pieces of legislation passed” blah blah blah.

    Don’t worry about the quality, feel the width !!

  191. So Morrison has gone to sort out the mess he is overseeing in PNG.

    Pity he did not focus on this, instead of towing back boats.

  192. So Morrison has gone to sort out the mess he is overseeing in PNG.


    And it should never be forgotten that it was a mess created by the ALP/Greens and the people who voted for them in 2007.

    There were only 6 boat people in detention in 2007.

  193. Gee your so ignorant NoS…… gawd……. round and round like a clown, ignoring facts on every lap, cherry pickin’ as you go, when you’ll stop.. nobody knows 🙄
    It’s all been explained to you before…… see you next lap…. same-same :yawn:

  194. Yes and I forgot to mention that our detention system only cost $140M/year before Labor abolished the Pacific Solution. That includes all people in detention eg. boat people, visa over-stayers etc

    And yes, there were only 6 boat people in detention in 2007 until the moral superiority people voted for Rudd in 2007.

    That is, you lot are responsible for the deaths, suicides and whatever disasters have happened.

  195. Neil of Sydney

    Its a funny thing but over time things change in the world and push and pull factors determine the flow of refugees. It was two years after Howard introduced the Pacific Solution for the flow of refugees to fall as they did world wide and I doubt that even John Winston Howard believes he stemmed the flow world wide.

    It is no coincidence that our in 2009 the end of the civil war in Sri Lanka and the failure of the ‘green revolution’ in Iran led to these being the major ethnic groups of asylum seekers that came to our shores. Added to this the resurgence of the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan saw many of Hazzara refugees coming our way and as the violence increased in Iraq we had many refugees from there.

    I find it hypocritical that Australia accepts no responsibility for its part of problems created by armed intervention in the Middle East. I also find it passing strange that any intelligent person in Australia is sucked in by the bullshit spouted by both major parties in Australia.

    I was opposed to many of Howard’s policies but he was an astute politician and represented Australia well on the world stage. Abbott has none of Howard’s strengths and our image in the wider world has been damaged. Howard had vision and a plan Abbott has nothing but slogans.

  196. Its a funny thing but over time things change in the world and push and pull factors determine the flow of refugees.

    You have to say that otherwise you would have to admit responsibility for what has happened.

    Perhaps some in the media just can’t stand the fact that the government’s policies are bearing fruit. Quite a few media commentators refused to accept that Labor’s dismantling of the strong border protection policies of the Howard government opened the floodgates. Labor spun out the line that the increased boat arrivals were due to ”push” factors. It was garbage. It was a cruel hoax. Now, with strong policies, a strong minister and a government with some gumption, everyone can see the truth.

    How many journalists let Labor run that stupid, pathetic excuse? Do they now feel guilty, or at least complicit in one of the greatest hoaxes a government has ever tried on?”

  197. Neil,
    Wow. What a knock out reply despite no rebuttal supported by facts I am seriously impressed by your rapier like mind.

  198. NoS, some facts for you to cherry pick as you go round…….. and round 😛
    “Of all the myth, the legend, the sheer fabrication that gets thrown around in the discourse over refugee and assylum seeker, the most damaging, the most disturbing of the lot remains the belief that John Howard “stopped the boats”.

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