Abbott: look over there, I see a boat

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Photo: news.com.au

Since being elected, Tony Abbott has gone into hyperdrive on the asylum seeker issue. Without a doubt irregular maritime arrivals are not the ideal way for those seeking asylum to arrive into Australia, however to all but the most ignorant, logic states that in order to put some order into disorder that a primary goal is the goodwill and cooperation of Indonesia.

In 2009, Kevin Rudd and Indonesia were in close cooperation on the issue:

AUSTRALIA is preparing to dispatch police across Asia to fight people smugglers and expand intelligence and security ties with Indonesia under a landmark deal that could be unveiled within weeks.

From the same link, it was none other than John Howard who recognised that a diplomatic solution was the prime solution:

But the Immigration Minister, Chris Evans, said yesterday the so-called Indonesia solution had begun in ”about 2002” under the former prime minister John Howard, who provided millions of dollars to Jakarta to assist with processing refugees and preventing illegal migration.

I wonder where all that cooperation went to? Gone like the wind under hamfisted, egotistical and inept handling by the Abbott-led government.  Completely at odds with his mentor John Howard, one of Tony Abbott’s first actions as Prime Minister was to enact the opposite, and instead of providing “millions of dollars to Jakarta” . . .

Australia will cut $75.4 million from humanitarian, emergency and refugees programs, including $8.5 million from the International Committee of the Red Cross, $4 million from planned donations to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and $1 million from the United Nations Peacekeeping Fund.

Therefore with a diplomatic solution effectively thrown in the wastepaper basket by Abbott and Morrison, what remains?  What else but Turn Back the Boats, irrespective of the wishes of the other party, Indonesia.  Some of a more bogan bent might stand on their soapboxes shouting loud “Huzzahs!” that we white fellas are showing those others a thing or two – here Indonesia; you can like it or lump it!

Stopping the boats has rather interesting history, and it took close to a year before anyone in the mainstream media got around to asking the question, “How?” clearly being far too interested in the politics of it all rather than the policy and that policy’s practical application.

December 31, 2009:

…the Opposition Leader declined to say what specific policies the Coalition would implement to stop the boats.

August 16, 2010:

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott believes he can ”stop the boats” entering Australian waters within three months of a coalition government being elected on Saturday.

Decisions would be made by Mr Abbott personally and on a case-by-case basis, based on the advice of naval commanders making contact through a hotline to the prime minister’s office.

Although the idea of a Boat phone caused a great deal of mirth, expressed in headlines such as “Holy asylum seekers”, the fact of the matter is that Abbott originally came up with this idea when cornered during an interview. Abbott when asked the question; if or when it did occur that people did die at sea due to his turn back the boats policy whether they be asylum seekers or enlisted personnel, then who is it who is going to be taking responsibility for these deaths? Whose responsibility would it be to turn back the boats? Abbott’s sudden and quite odd explanation is that he would have a Boatphone to the commanders, “In the end it would be a prime ministerial decision,” he said.

So where has this Prime Ministerial responsibility suddenly evaporated to?

Mistakes by sailors blamed for breach of Indonesian water

Senior navy officers and customs officials face possible disciplinary action over six incursions into Indonesian waters while turning back asylum-seeker boats under the government’s border protection regime.

And what might this quotation be construed as meaning?

However some blame was placed on headquarters, which while knowing the importance of respecting Indonesian territory, had ”effectively devolved the obligation to remain outside Indonesian waters to vessel commanders”.

How can respect for another nation’s territorial waters “devolve”, and under what circumstances were orders given, and by whom, that this should devolve?  But of course, this is none of Tony’s business, as after all it’s nothing more than a cricket game or a football match.

During a press conference at Parliament House on Tuesday, the Prime Minister was asked how it could transpire that professionally trained and highly skilled naval personnel could mistakenly sail, more than once, into Indonesian territorial waters.

“Even people who are at the very top of their game… will occasionally make mistakes,” Mr Abbott replied, while praising the skill and professionalism of the Australian navy.

A game?  A match?  Apparently not, it is now a devolution.

135 comments on “Abbott: look over there, I see a boat

  1. We have had Dutton, Pyne and Turnbull all out, trying to divert attention from those boats
    Have had time yet to catch up with what Turnbull has to say re NBN lite/fraud..

  2. Yes and no boats for 9 weeks.

    Let us hope we can empty the concentration camps started by Labor but it may take a long time.

    In 2007 there was only one asylum seeker on Manus Island most probably because he could not get a security clearance.

  3. The name of the innocent man imprisoned on Manus Island and who died under the care of Abbott was Reza Berati.

    He wasn’t a number and a hidden away faceless person but a demonised and marginalised desperate fellow human being.

    Shame on this terrible government and the demon Morrison who lies that he’s a Christian.

  4. The name of the innocent man imprisoned on Manus Island

    And which govt put him in prison?? It was the Rudd/Gillard govt and the people who voted for Rudd/Gillard who put this man in prison.

    In 2007 there were less than 10 boat people in detention and that would have been because ASIO did not give them a security clearance.

    By the way does anybody know how many people died in detention from 2007-2013??

    Nobody knows how many people died because ALP supporters did not care about asylum seekers in detention until Labor lost the election in 2013.

  5. News just in that Manus Island staff have quit after being told to get back to work as usual.

    Says an awful lot.

  6. And all this trouble was started by anyone who voted for Kevin Rudd in 2007.

    Let us hope we get back to taking refugees from UNHCR camps like we did under Howard.

    It is amazing that nobody cared about what was going on in the detention centers until Labor lost the election.

    Labor supporters only care about dead people when a Coalition govt is in power.

  7. Under Howard Neil we had “the Babies overboard ” LIE , This lot at the Moment have scraped the Bottom of the Barrel, Next stop Machine guns being used , that would save so many Taxpayers Money, If This evil man moronson was in charge of a department in a workplace He Would be sacked for Gross incompetence , As for Tony Abbott he should fall on his sword, but knowing his incompetence he would miss

  8. As with everything else they’re all over the shop with this. No boats for a while, they say & it may well be true. But I can’t see Marty & SBY being happy at all. Otherwise it’s standard Abbott SNAFU & won’t the RAN be happy at being the nominated fall guys. As a post remarked, a couple of weeks ago the ABC & others were copping it hard over the burnt hands issue & we now see what was obvious to most who hang out here- that the criticism of the ABC was done for political reasons, the brave lads & lasses of the RAN keelhauled the instant Morrison needed scapegoats. They’ve stuffed it to the extent that China can get in a swipe & PNG won’t thank us for putting them in the position they’re in. I shouldn’t say “us” because it’s this ratshit government.
    And that’s just part of the short term issues. Long term we’ve made total arseholes of ourselves, Australian exceptionalism at its worst & this will be remembered when countries such as China & India start expanding their presence in the region & go looking for allies.

  9. Let us hope Abbott can clean up the mess created by Labor.

    Once the mess is cleaned up we can get back to taking our refugees from UNHCR camps instead of selling our humanitarian places to the highest bidder.

  10. Neil, not possible. Too busy making a bigger one himself,

    Neil, why are you here. Why not watch Madame Lagarde Q and A. You might have learnt something.

    These camps are bad under all governments. Not sure that Labor treated them as being less than human though.

    What I do know, we cannot afford the cost of stopping those few boats.

  11. “Not sure that Labor treated them as being less than human though.”

    What?? It was Labor that filled these centers with asylum seekers. And people died as well.

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3928324.html

    The time for policy promises and tinkering at the edges of hell are over. Seven people have died in our detention centres in 18 months, thousands are now deeply depressed and considering suicide as the only way out of their pain and misery.

    We had less than 10 asylum seekers in detention just before Howard lost the election. And we took our 13,750 refugees from UNHCR camps.

    It was Labor who allowed a system to be started where people could make money selling our 13,750 humanitarian places.

  12. …………The Indonesian ministry in charge of security matters says Australia’s policy of turning back asylum seeker boats has led to territorial breaches and needs to be stopped.

    A review of operations by Australian Navy and Customs has found vessels inadvertently entered Indonesian waters six times while enforcing Operation Sovereign Borders.

    The incursions came after the commanders incorrectly calculated the location of the maritime border.

    The Government has apologised to Indonesia for the breaches, which happened in December and January.

    But Agus Barnas, the spokesman for the Co-ordinating Ministry for Politics, Law and Security, says he has not seen the report.

    But he says Australia’s turn-back policy for dealing with asylum seekers has led to the violations and should be stopped immediately.

    He says as long as the policy continues, there will be problems.

    The Indonesian Navy says it backs those statements.

    Earlier on Thursday, Defence Force Chief David Hu………

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-20/indonesia-responds-to-navy-incursions-report/5273762

    Poor Tony, no one seems to believe him.

  13. Why do we pay so much for electricity. I suspect the so called carbon tax, is the least thing one would worry about.

    ……Electricity privatisation during the past two decades has been a failure, a union-commissioned report says.

    Power price rises have been the steepest in Victoria and South Australia where electricity assets were sold off during the 1990s, the study commissioned by the Electrical Trades Union (ETU) found.

    With the federal treasurer, Joe Hockey, calling on the states to consider asset sales, report author John Quiggin said complaints against power companies had increased after privatisation.

    “Prices have risen dramatically,” Quiggin, an economist, said.

    “My research comprehensively finds that the free-market based reform process in energy has been a failure.”

    Privatisation had seen funds diverted away from operational costs to management and marketing, with consumers also paying higher interest rates on private sector debt, the report said.

    Reliability had also declined in Victoria..

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/20/electricity-privatisation-failure-report-finds?CMP=ema_792

  14. Yep, I believe what i write.

    All this asylum seeker trouble is your fault because you voted for Rudd in 2007.

    Labor locked up record numbers of people and nobody really cared about what went on in these centers until Abbott won an election. And now you people are playing politics with asylum seekers like you did back in 2007.

    It should be noted that there was one asylum seeker in detention on Manus Island when Howard lost in 2007.

  15. Well it looks like Abbotts policies are working.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/drop-in-asylum-seeker-boat-arrivals-hits-charter-operators-bottom-line-20140220-333bo.html

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s mission to ‘stop the boats’ has taken a toll on airlines that once racked up big business flying intercepted asylum seekers across the region.

    Fly-in fly-out and charter operator Alliance Aviation Services is searching for new clients to offset a downturn in ad hoc charters from the Department of Immigration and Border Protection now that unauthorised boat arrivals are at a standstill.

  16. This alleged “no boats arriving” beloved by RWNJ as a distraction, are all because boats are being towed back from Australian waters into Indonesian waters.

    Why the “brilliant” Abbott government is even providing the people smugglers with sturdier boats in the form of striking orangey/red all weather lifeboats.

  17. Oh dear, poor old Neil is clearly too thick to know about the concept of MONSOON SEASON. The drop in attempted boat arrivals over the last few months has *nothing* to do with Abbort’s policies, & never did, yet all of his are costing tax-payers a bomb-$1.8 billion for the off-shore camps, however many hundreds of millions for the boat patrols & towing, millions of dollars for expensive life boats etc. The boats, though, are still attempting to *depart* Indonesia, so his plan is clearly a FAILURE, no matter how you try to slice it. Still, Abbort screws up everything he touches, so I don’t find this remotely surprising.

  18. Oh Neil, Neil, Neil. The election was over 5 months ago, & Gillard hasn’t been PM in around 8 months, yet still you obsess about what Labor did or didn’t do, rather than focus on what a bunch of incompetent cock-ups the current mob of morons are. Appointing vested interests, at high cost to tax-payers, to engage in expensive, partisan reviews of education, the budget (surprised Hockey didn’t just employ that Accounting firm he used back in 2010, but maybe Vanstone was desperate for work), renewable energy targets & now Industrial Relations.

  19. I cannot believe the writer of this lying piece of crap.

    The writer says that “co-operation” ensued under KRudd. Well that “co-operation” resulted in the drownings over over 1000 people, a huge upswing in arrivals and billions spent in processing and security and health checks on those boat arrivals.

    Yes, Howard spent millions co-operating with Jakarta, as the writer notes, but what the writer refuses to acknowledge that all that work was pissed away by Rudd and Labor increasing the “pull factor” in 2008/9

    It was only at the last minute, last year, in a desperate attempt to remove that issue from the election campaign, did KRudd overturn his “principles” and propose an even harsher regime than what Labor and the Greens had criticised Howard of implementing.

    The SIMPLE UNDENIABLE FACTS are that Labor has no principles, except those they are willing to drop for the sake of political power.
    They are disgusting and are unfit for government.

  20. I am amazed at how many Australians I speak to every day who say that they are elated now that the boats have stopped and equally elated that the ALP 5pm news spin machine has dried up. In fact, they all say that they are enjoying their after work family time more due to the stance Morrison et al have taken against the labor media barrage we suffered previously. Is it any wonder that most people find the labor brand distasteful? Combined with the Craig Thompson affair, NSW labor corruption and union corruption that all surfaced during the previous administrations tenure, labor will be on the nose for a long long long time thankfully. Now that the grub Thompson has been convicted, Gillard looks even more stupid than she did before. She gave him her continued unwavering support, all along knowing he was guilty. She’s a piece of work!

  21. Neil believes all that he writes, that still doe’s not make it true. After all Adolph Hitler believed in white supremacy. that still did not make it true. And Neil if you insist on going back into time, then you should mention Pig Iron Bob Menzies, you remember him ? Well he was our Prime Minister before and after the ww2, He wanted to sell pig iron to the japanese so they could make bombs. It was only the unions who put a stop to that. you know neil, ordinary australians. It seems to be that the lnp in this country want to destroy ordinary australians. Why you may ask ? well so gina can bring in foreign workers, and pay them $2.00 per hour. thats why Neil ! can’t you see it Neil ? Is that what you support neil ? I think YES!

  22. Haha the wingnuts get into a circle jerk as Don, or whatever he monikers himself this week, puts up another utterly inane post of bullshit.

    Well Don let’s also play that stupid game.

    I’m amazed at the huge number of Australians I talk to and read everday who state what a deploring job Abbott and this government are doing, bumbling around, trashing this country’s reputation internationally and breaking promise after promise.

  23. Both Labor and the LNP are guilty of preferring extremely expensive offshore ‘processing’ (I really hate that word – as if people were canned food) compared to cheaper and more easily monitored ‘processing’ onshore.

    Both Labor and LNP claimed the ‘humanitarian’ reason to stop boats was to stop people drowning at sea.

    Right now, we do not know if boats are lost at sea due to Minister Scott Morrison’s ban on openness and transparency. We did know if fatalities occurred under Labor – cause, at least Labor was open and compared to the LNP, transparent.

    Right now, we do know that it is apparently acceptable to the current LNP government for refugees to be harmed or die if said refugees are incarcerated indefinitely in one of the concentration detainees camps. In other words not acceptable to die at sea, but OK if on land.

    ____________________________________________________

    If people do genuinely care about the treatment of refugees – why are they not be directing their complaints to the current LNP federal government rather than whingeing about the Labor’s past?

    Polite answers will be considered, insulting ones will be ignored.

  24. One of the reasons Labor was open and transparent in their dealing with asylum seekers was that Abbott in opposition demanded it, and generalised that governments who kept secrets and away from the public didn’t deserve to be in power.

    I lost count of the number of times that Abbott said his would be an open and transparent government, just like all the current State Liberal governments when they were in opposition. All to a tee have turned into the most secretive and deceptive governments we have ever seen in this country.

    Yet their supporters don’t seem to have a problem with this blatant double standard when they were railing against the smallest of perceived esotericas from Labor, most that were made up by the media and weren’t hidden at all.

  25. ME I’d hardly accept anything you say, Nong. The only Aussies you’d speak to would be those of your weird left leaning ilk. The rest you talk at!

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  26. Both Labor and LNP claimed the ‘humanitarian’ reason to stop boats was to stop people drowning at sea.

    Maybe so but not me. Howards system was a fairer system. Howard stopped the boats and then we took our refugees from UNHCR camps.

    Under Labor, economic immigrants know how to milk the system to gain a humanitarian place. And $10,000 will get you in.

    And all this current crap was started by Labor and its supporters. We had less than 10 asylum seekers in detention when Howard lost in 2007. Christmas Island was empty and called a white elephant.

  27. Did anuome count the number of times Morrison manage to use the word :transferees” today.

    What I do know, the word grates on one’s nerves.

    They are people, who have become asylum seekers and refugees. Yes, people through fear that are seeking safe haven.

    What in the hell do transfers mean. Whether they remain on the Christmas Island, or are moved to Nauru and Manus, they are still asylum seekers anfd refugees, that need a safe haven.

    Mr. Morrison, your incapability of not calling them by their correct titled, will not change this fact.

    Another that gets up my nose, is the claim that this government and those who support them, say saving lives is their aim.

    This is a lie. A lie that is proved by the fact, that this government is taking nearly 10,000 less than Labor would be doing at this point.

    Yes, nearly 10,000 less from everywhere.

  28. I, for one, am sick and tired of the POLITICAL STUNT that is the ‘Boat People’ issue. The embarrassement that both sides have caused this country in the wider world, is deplorable.
    Ever since that dickhead howard demonised these poor people just to score cheap political points and the ALP ran with it because of the issues “political sensitivity” in the broader Australian community, this has done nothing but been an diversive and embarrassing situation for our nation.
    We should be ‘checking’ these peoples ‘creds’ onshore, not offshore. What sort of nation have we become when we demonise a pathetic few thousand of deperate people trying to escape from horrors that we can only imagine.
    The ‘Boat people” issue needs a reallity check, because the way things are going now Australia is/will lose it’s reputation as a modern egalitarian nation and will be viewed as “The Bogans of the Pacific”.

  29. Neil, two wrongs do not a right make.

    Neil, we cannot change the past, only learn from it.

    You waste your time and that of the reader with your obsession of all that was Gillard.

    Yes, and cherry picked, taken out of coin text, recollections at that.

    Comments that have nought to do with the post, or what is happe3ning now.

  30. I think some people missed reading my question,

    If people do genuinely care about the treatment of refugees – why are they not directing their complaints to the current LNP federal government rather than whingeing about the Labor’s past?

    Sitting back and blaming a previous government for events happening now, is what? Stupid? Trolling?

    Abbott’s LNP did not have to continue with Howard’s or Rudd’s or Gillard’s offshore processing/solutions. They could actually have saved the taxpayer money by onshore processing, saved our Navy’s valuable time by ensuring people in unseaworthy boats reached our shores safely. Of course I am expecting the Abbott government to behave like the Christians they make so much noise about being – and I was expecting out resident Abbott supporters to consider empathy for other people instead of mindless knee-jerk rhetoric, designed to upset those of us who do care about men, women, and children being treated like criminals – indefinitely. Worse than criminals – at least a crim know the length of their sentence.

    R.I.P. Reza Barati

  31. Don nobody but wingnuts would yarp to you and anything they tell you is just ideological crap based on the normal Liberal party and right wing media lies. But you soak it all up without question being an Abbott apologic.

    Talk about tickets on yourself, only Iain Hall beats you on that front.

  32. I repeat my question:

    >>>>>If people do genuinely care about the treatment of refugees – why are they not be directing their complaints to the current LNP federal government rather than whingeing about the Labor’s past?<<<<

    R.I.P. Reza Barati

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Onshore assessment as refugees – cheaper and, particularly, after the occurrence on Manus Island, far safer.

    Employing Navy to assist people in unseaworthy boats top shore also cheaper and safer.

  33. Fed-Up

    Makes me sick to my stomach that anyone would be detained indefinitely – at least criminals know the duration of their sentence.

    Locking up children is child abuse – one day governments which have done such reprehensible acts will be brought to justice.

  34. Nope, still asylum seekers and refugees. Does not change that status.

    How does one justify spending 17 billion a year on border control, to stop at the most 15000 asylum seekers.

    Wonder what would happen, it, we raised the numbers w3e take from 13,500 to the 27.000 that Labor proposed. Even leaving the number at 20,000 would have meant we could have taken more.

    By doing this, we could take an extra 10,000 more from the region. No need to get on the boats. I am sure most would be happy to wait their turn.

    Trouble is, now, that NO turn is coming.

  35. Just listened to Abbott gives another excuse for his cavalry grant. With a smug look on his face, he said, that during the election campaign, he was very open and clear about allotting some millions for touriism.

    Now it appears, that is where he promised the money for Cabury from. Yes, why have we not heard this explanation long before this. The smug, I am clever look is what gets me.

  36. “Onshore assessment as refugees – cheaper and, particularly, after the occurrence on Manus Island, far safer.

    Boats numbers based on the months just before Rudd lost the election were running at 40,000 people/year and increasing rapidly. And could easily double becoming the major component of our immigration program.

    Have yet to see how many refugees do lefties think we should take.

    Should we take 10,000, 40,000, one million or twenty million refugees??

    Remember the USA has 15 million Mexicans living illegally. Mexicans have a choice. Living in a Mexican slum or illegally cross the border and clean toilets in California.

  37. Well more than we are doing now. Yes, we can afford that.

    How can Morrison justify cutting the numbers, when many more are fleeing their countries because of war.

  38. Taking 15,000, at the most, that present Sovereign Borders is preventing would be a cheaper option.

    There are not millions heading to our coastline.,

  39. Australia can afford to help the thousands of refugees for your edification, there are not “millions” of refugees bobbing around in boats – most asylum seekers arrive by air.

    We succeeded in helping many thousands in the past who arrived by boat, who now contribute to our nation – what is the difference now?

  40. “If people do genuinely care about the treatment of refugees – why are they not be directing their complaints to the current LNP federal government rather than whingeing about the Labor’s past?”

    Because you lot created the mess and it will take years to clean up.

    There was one asylum seeker on Manus Island in 2007.

  41. NoS

    I have stated this many times on AIMN I have not voted for Labor for over 20 years.

    This “mess” as you call it was created by war, famine and poverty.

    Just for once, try to think things through.

  42. “most asylum seekers arrive by air.”

    Not this fly in by air crap. Unfortunately for you i know from experience about this and shame on you for trying to confuse the issue to win an argument.

    There are 200,000 foreign students in Australia on a student visa. It is a big source of income for Australian Universities. After flying in on a students visa they like it here so much they apply for asylum before their visa expires.

    They claim they are Christians or some persecuted political group or some other crap because they like it here and do not want to fly home.

    Success people who fly in is about 20% and i i would think the 20% who are successful know how to lie better than the 80% who fail.

  43. A certain drongo here keeps railing on about the cost of asylum seekers to the previous government whilst of course ignoring the far greater cost of this government.

    It has been announced that the Abbott government is going to spend $4 billion on a handful of patrol aircraft for border protection.

    This on the back of the announcement of a $1.8 billion increase a few weeks ago.

    A government that has gone on about waste is the most wasteful outside of Howard ever. At the current throwing away of money they will make Howard look like a miser. No wonder Hockey wanted the debt ceiling removed, Abbott is costing this country a motsa, and that’s without the systematic corruption his ministers engaged in.

  44. “This “mess” as you call it was created by war, famine and poverty.” and we are invading their country in some cases.

    Not caused by changing how we treat them when they arrive, then what they are fleeing from.

    Does not sound fair to me..

  45. shame on you for trying to confuse the issue to win an argument.

    I was talking about people seeking safety in Australia – which is, last time I checked the topic of this thread – it was you who brought attempted to derail topic with completely different scenario in the USA:

    Remember the USA has 15 million Mexicans living illegally. Mexicans have a choice…

    For your further edification – I worked with immigrants to Australia for over 12 years. Think before you start making claims.

    Just because some people lie, doesn’t mean you have to distort the truth.

    Children are locked up indefinitely, thanks to this current government – maybe you don’t care about the adults, but where is your outrage over the treatment of children?

  46. “I was talking about people seeking safety in Australia – which is, last time I checked the topic of this thread’

    NO YOU WERE NOT!!!

    You were trying to create trouble by creating confusion re: “most asylum seekers arrive by air.”

    Unfortunately for you i work with these “most asylum seekers arrive by air.

    You may fool the people on this blog but you cannot fool me.

    Most of these “most asylum seekers arrive by air.” are foreign students who fly in to get a Bachelors, Masters or PhD degree. They spend a lot of time perving at the bikini girls on Bondi beach.

    This causes them to apply for asylum before there visas expire.

    Hence their success rate is low( approx 20%). And the 20% of plane people who are successful are successful because they are better liars than the 80% who fail.

  47. dianneaart, don’t be to bothered by NoS, 🙄 he’s just a ‘go round bot’ from Menzies Hovel 😀 …… all you have to do to upset his apple-cart is to produce the ample proof ‘out there’ that Howard was the waste of space that has caused many of todays woe’s, here, in Australia……. but be warned… he’ll circle on around you and then BAM…. an inanity will be spewed forth :pukesmiley:

  48. OK LOVO have a read of this

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-15/chinese-fly-into-australia-to-make-27dodgy27-asylum-claims/3892416

    Stop the boats is the catchcry of the asylum seeker debate, but the majority of arrivals come to Australia by plane and many are using dodgy documents to gain residence. ……………..What distinguishes the Chinese case load is that it’s endemic – it’s the norm with PRC applications to have some fraudulent content and for there to be some dodgy practices along the way,” she said.

    The Chinese enter on valid student, tourist or carer’s visas and once in the country apply for asylum. “

    I work with these people. There are 200,000 foreign students in Australia. They like it here so much they do not want to go home. The Chinese are the worst. Except for Chinese from Hong Kong. Chinese from Hong Kong go home because they have some freedom because it was a British colony. Chinese from mainland China would rather die than go home.

    People who mention “most asylum seekers arrive by air.” are evil human beings trying to create trouble.

  49. NoS, that last line of yours is so pure :razz:…. 😆 😆 , bwwaahhaa oh oh bwwahhaahaaa oh oh bwwaahhaaahhaa…. no…more… oh…oh… bwwaahaahaa, oh dear… yajustgottalaughattheprojctionist-ismist

  50. No i stand by what i say. diannaart is an evil person trying to create trouble and confusion.

    Unfortunately for this evil person i work with these alleged asylum seekers who fly in.

    He/she may fool you but this person cannot fool me.

  51. I have just been called ‘evil’ by someone who knows nothing about yet expects his comments to be taken seriously.

    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AsylumFacts#_Toc348096475

    https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/face-facts-2012/2012-face-facts-chapter-3

    Only recently have asylum seekers arrivals by boat increased over arrivals by air – according to following PDF produced by the Salvation Army – see NoS, I can can admit to making mistakes.

    http://tinyurl.com/knlfr5t

    Also I would like to request the moderators – if I am EVER maligned or slandered by such as being called ‘evil’ please ban the offending slanderer. This is nothing less than vilification.

  52. NoS, mm….. you sure are a thinker 😀 ….. OMG (which there isn’t) …WTF are you on NoS (old favourite ad hominem) ….. EVIL PERSONAGES…… and I do-o so-o love the “He/she may fool you but this person cannot fool me.”….. I reckon even ‘Roswell’ would appreciate that…(cue twilight zone theme)…… ya just gotta face it NoS, ya bein’ hangin at the Café for to long……. it’s starting to get to ya…. I mean, ya have hung ‘in there’ for so long that all that truth and knowledge is starting to get to you….. I think it may be time time for you to have a little (or big) Tea Party…. a sorta get back to ya ‘roots’ affair….. gawd, you know what I mean :lovobeamssmiley:

  53. “I have just been called ‘evil’ by someone who knows nothing about yet expects his comments to be taken seriously.”

    If you only knew. I work with these so-called asylum seekers who fly in.

    I have to listen to people crying because they cannot get jobs because so-called asylum seekers who fly in do not want to go home.

    I am talking from personal experience.

    Furthermore people like you do nothing but destroy the lives of other people. And even furthermore read this link again.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-15/chinese-fly-into-australia-to-make-27dodgy27-asylum-claims/3892416

  54. Last year more than 6,000 asylum seekers arrived by air. The largest group by far came from China, with much smaller numbers flying in from India and other south east Asian countries.

    While some might be legitimate, many are not and they are being supported by a network of corrupt officials from China to migration agents in Australia”

  55. …… and on the large scale of things, NoS, this has to do.. WHAT???- with the post-…. oh, that’s right ..”Look over There” …..is that little Johnny fucking up big time on the world stage…(what an ‘evil’ fuck he was/is still)……… no, no, no.. it’s not ‘the destroyer of Australia’s future from the past…. no, no, no.. it’s Back to the Destroyer of the Future Pt.2… it’s ‘lacking’ abbott …The Clayton’s pm, the minister for rorts, wimmens and fuhrerprinzip 😛 doing his embarrassing, umm, ‘best’ (cough, splutter) to push Australia towards abject poverty and serfdom….. all heil WkChoices v2 …. und all heil Neil 😛
    oh…oh…. and look over there 😮
    P.S. NoS, Howard really did hold this country back…. it will take us decades to get over his extravagances…. and now we have the ever incompetent abbortt…. 🙄 …. can’t wait for Labor to get back in and get our country back on track…… no, really 🙂

  56. Neil, since this blog opened I’m guessing that you’ve provided us with over a thousand comments. Yet in all those comments you’ve only ever said three things at the most. You are extremely monotonous.

  57. I wonder how neil could have time for the job he said he has, when he spends so much time here ? maybe he is just a bludger.. and really is, neil of hervey bay ? Summo and the don what do you think ? does neil deserve to be sacked for bludging on the job ? yajustgottalaugh !

  58. Also I would like to request the moderators – if I am EVER maligned or slandered by such as being called ‘evil’ please ban the offending slanderer. This is nothing less than vilification.

    Yes, Neil needs to pull his head in.

  59. Michael, not blind, but wears blinkers to prevent him from seeing anything.,

    Why are we bothering to reply?

    So the budget is so dire, we cannot afford Medicare.

    I wonder how much confidence business and others have on the economy with the Treasurers continually talking down of the economy.

    It appears we are running out of money. Not too sure how a government manages this.,\

    Does not the government have power over the money it spends and the money it collects.

    I think he might not understand how the system works. Just like he got the pension age today. It has been a while since it was 65.

    Someone needs to tell him, it is about choices. It is about what needs to be spent. It is about raising the money, necessary it to do so.

    He can begin by dumping all the RC and judicial inquiries he has put in place. He can restore the savings Labor made.

    Maybe even take another look at the CEF suite of bills. No point in getting rid of the MRRT if things are so bad.

    Most of all, he and his mob can cease talking down the economy.

  60. well he did say he works with so called asylum seekers who fly in, but thats all he said. I remember scaper saying he was in his early 30s, but i also remember him saying he had been married for over 30 years. such a truthful lot, those conservatives !

  61. Michael, has to be a little older. How long has he been hanging around here. If only 14, he has not grown at all.

  62. “Neil, since this blog opened I’m guessing that you’ve provided us with over a thousand comments. Yet in all those comments you’ve only ever said three things at the most. You are extremely monotonous.”

    That’s it in a nutshell, and he said those same handful of things over and over in Blogocrats and Blogoracy, it’s why I’ve long since stopped reading his posts.

    Even when on the very rare occasion he’s right, something I once acknowledged and said I was wrong, he will then flog that one thing for years afterwards whilst totally ignoring all the very many things he’s wrong in. And Neil admit he’s wrong, like most conservatives, never.

    He was amusing for a bit but then became so monotonous and predicable it became a waste of time debating when you already knew his response almost word for word.

  63. predictably, you lofties begin the personal attacks. Neil airs an opinion so let’s just gang up and bully the bastard. you’re all weak as piss and none weaker than hash

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  64. Steven, The Don, or whatever he calls himself this week, is even useless at retorts and abuse. Just a sad clown laughing at himself.

  65. @ 8:28 am

    No Don, as you are obviously a newbie, in both posting here and mentality, you haven’t a clue on Neil and his long history of posting on this blog and its predecessors.

    Neil doesn’t offer opinions, he offers the almost exact same thing over and over, and when you prove him wrong he just ignores it and moves onto one of his other small handful of regurgitated talking points sprinkled with unwarranted spite.

    All are Labor bashing, like you it’s is his answer to anything he’s challenged on.

    It quickly becomes very monotonous, especially with his gross hypocrisy thrown in. Plus the fact he says he takes it as a badge of honour being abused by other posters, so don’t attempt to condemn those here who return his spite when he has stated many times he welcomes it.

    When he can offer something lucid then you may be able to have a grown up conversation with him. And this doesn’t even get into his split persona that has been speculated on as there being different people using his account.

  66. One of the things that intrigues me about this whole debate, & Labor can share some of the blame for being sucked into it, is the out of sight out of mind attitude so prevalent. To the extent that Morrison used to run bleeding heart lines about his concern for these poor folk who risked their lives making this perilous passage. Much safer for them to stay where they were, where their circumstances would go unreported by the Oz media. If the boats are stopped we’ll never hear the end of it but won’t hear anything at all about the people who’ve taken their troubles elsewhere. Elsewhere being the key word. Anywhere but here. Though since they’re in the district, perhaps they could hop on another boat, to Bali where they could make themselves useful as hookers or bar attendants catering to Australian tourist’s needs.

  67. @BSA Bob

    …but won’t hear anything at all about the people who’ve taken their troubles elsewhere…

    This is what I don’t understand about either Labor’s and now, in particular, the LNP tow-back policy – do they think asylum seekers magically disappear?

    Does Scott Morrison believe this helps anyone? Well, yes it helps to build hatred and racism.

    How long can the Australian public continued to be fooled by the LNP? Not all are as deliberately ignorant as the trolls who do nothing more than call people names and cut ‘n paste Murdoch, Bolt and other assorted in-it-for-the-$. Thinking for themselves requiring a level of intellect beyond them, therefore they overcompensate with vitriol and then claim they are the ones being denigrated.

    Projection much?

    Psychological projection was conceptualized by Sigmund Freud (6 May 1856 – 23 September 1939) in the 1900s as a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world. For example, a person who is rude may accuse other people of being rude.

    Although rooted in early developmental stages, and classed by George Eman Vaillant as an immature defence, the projection of one’s negative qualities onto others on a small scale is nevertheless a common process in everyday life.

  68. Dear the don, er sorry or is it summo ? how is the stalking going ? is it just me you stalk ? or are there others as well ? and also do you only stalk men> since you love to stalk me, then you must be the queer one !

  69. “Yes, Neil needs to pull his head in.

    I stand by my comments. Anybody who brings up asylum seekers who fly in by plane is a deceiver trying to confuse the issue.

    There are 200,000 foreign students in Australia. It brings a lot of revenue for Universities and foreign exchange money for Australia.

    A small percentage say 5% (10,000 people) like it hear so much they do not want to go home so they apply for asylum. They say they are from some religious/political group back home and are in danger if they return home.

  70. That picture more than anything ever could describes the sheer hypocrisy of the right wingers.

    They’re all big talk and bashing on those less fortunate, destitute, marginalised and being hurt by policies that don’t affect them, but it’s all hell and brashness when the same thing gets anywhere near their neck of the woods or touches their ingrained and unchanging way of life.

  71. “Also I would like to request the moderators – if I am EVER maligned or slandered by such as being called ‘evil’ please ban the offending slanderer. This is nothing less than vilification.”

    I am sorry if i called you evil. You are more than that.

    You are a deceiver of people and a person who destroys the lives of people.

    I have met people who have overstayed their visas and are now University lecturers.

    This whole people who fly in by plane is a total rort.

    University education in Australia is an anchor to get into Australia.

    Wealthy parents from Asia send their kids to Australia on 485 visas and then their kids apply for asylum because Australia is a nicer place to live.

  72. They’re desperate to justify a flawed view, and knowing that out of pure self interest they support a terrible party and their often terrible leaders they attempt to convince others their selfish position is justifiable.

    It’s why their arguments are banal and inane, mostly harping back to Labor or attacking Labor instead of addressing the deep flaws of the party and leader they blindly follow.

  73. Neil, old chap – contrast and compare with how Asian economies treat Australian “interlopers”. While we make an absolute fortune out of foreign students studying at our institutions, they pay our students to study there.

    My son studied, on exchange, in Japan, for a year. His friend who also completed the same Japanese government financed program he did, has just completed his Master’s in Japan.

    A colleague I recently worked with, is now employed in Shanghai, happier than he’s ever been.

    You really need to take off your “Lieberal” blinkers, and view the world as it really is. In the professional world, work is available wherever you want it to be. The mixing of minds and ideas of these professionals is what the world needs. If there are Australian graduates who believe they are being displaced by international interlopers, that says to me they’re not of the calibre that we need – they don’t have the vision or drive that we, and the world, needs.

    Such students have probably come through our private school system, with its attitude of “entitlement”, as opposed to these “interlopers” who are actually prepared to work for their positions…

    Will you EVER be prepared to open that mind of yours?

    Disclaimers: I attended a private high school, and my daughter-in-law studied here as an international student…

  74. I am not sure what your point is. I was just saying what is happening from personal experience.

    Foreign students use Australian Universities as an anchor to obtain permanent residence. Many thousands apply for asylum while studying for a degree

    And then leftoids try and make an issue about why do we treat asylum seekers who fly in different to asylum seekers who come by boat.

  75. I realise this is short notice, but I am trying to spread the word to as many people as possible.

    Get-up are holding a candle light vigil around Australia to night in recognition of the the appalling murder of Reza Berati and conditions on Manus Island:

    https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/refugees/manus-vigils

    Reza Berati, a 23 year old from Iran, lost his life in the most horrific way while under our care. It was in July last year that he made the perilous journey by boat to seek refuge in Australia and instead of finding safety, he endured a nightmare.

    This Sunday, we can send a different message and shed a light on the unacceptable way we’re treating asylum seekers in our care.

    Despite our Government’s best attempt to keep us in the dark, we’re going to light up the night. Australians will be gathering across the country, in homes, backyards, parks and churches to pay respects to those we’ve failed to protect and display the compassion and hope that we know Australians are capable of.

    There are candlelight vigils planned in Melbourne, Sydney, Hobart, Perth and Adelaide, and many more Australians will host their own vigils with family and friends right across the country.
    Will you join us in lighting up the dark? All you need to bring is a candle if you have one (there will also be some there) and your compassion. See you on Sunday?

    Thank you

  76. There are still those amongst us who want to talk about “illegals”, Labor’s “financial mismanagement”, deaths under Labor’s “pink batts” program and deaths under Labor’s border protection.

    What these posters ignore is: the Refugee Convention; praise from around the world for Labor’s “responsible”, in contrast to the Coalition’s “profligate” economic management under Howard; the failure of small business supervisors to adhere to OH&S regulations and the CSIRO finding that the insulation industry was safer under Rudd than it was under Howard; there were deaths at sea under Howard.

    Much is being made that under Howard there were few refugees on Manus or Nauru. Why is that? Because most (except a few) were sent to Oz, NZ and a few other places. The cat was out of the bag: go to Manus/Nauru and you can get to a place of refuge, even in Oz.

    Labor tried to avoid the Coalition’s inhumane approach, but was foiled at every turn. Eventually, Labor caved into public demand and Rudd, seeing that the Coalition would win the 2013 election, suggested that if refugees came to Oz from Manus/Nauru under Howard, ban them from coming at all. Abbott seized the idea with glee. It would suit his plan to attack a handful of people smugglers and punish thousands of refugees. An incredibly mean and insensitive plan, criticised in Oz, in Indonesia, in China, by the UNHCR by Amnesty International…

    But loved by the xenophobes amongst us. They complain about people coming by boat, by plane, or through education institutions. They ignore the driving forces which compel people to travel across the world. Hello! With all the talk about “free trade” and “globalisation”, here in Oz we think of Fortress Oz, insulated from the world and trying to treat the rest of the world as if only Oz matters. The old white superior colonial mentality.

    So Abbott lectures economic representatives in Davos about the evils of debt and deficit. – and he is criticised in the UK and USA, totally ignored around the rest of the world.

    Within weeks of the Free Trade Agreement with Korea, Holden and Toyota announce their withdrawal from Oz. Industry in decline. The workers in Oz and the most vulnerable amongst us under attack. Secrecy and blatant propaganda prevail…

    Abbott, the bikerider and imitator of working people, is making a big, big mess in his War on Everything.

  77. “Get-up are holding a candle light vigil around Australia to night in recognition of the the appalling murder of Reza Berati and conditions on Manus Island:”

    And exactly as i expected, out they all come. Hardly any protests from 2007-2013.

    I see we are also getting a new Children in Detention Inquiry. WE had one under Howard and then nothing from 2007-2013 when Labor was locking up record numbers of people.

    Partisan deadbeats the lot of you.

  78. so neil, does that mean you don’t care , and will refuse to light a candle. you could light a candle for all those who died during the labor years if you like, will you light a candle for those people, neil ?

  79. I guess researching for proof of anything you claim is a complete impossibility for you NoS.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-21/hundreds-rally-in-brisbane-and-adelaide-against-png-asylum-seek/4833824

    Hundreds of people have rallied in Brisbane and Adelaide against the Federal Government’s new policy of sending asylum seekers to Papua New Guinea.

    Under the plan announced by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd on Friday, people arriving at Christmas Island will be processed in Papua New Guinea and resettled there, if they are deemed to be refugees.

    Protesters voiced their outrage at the plan and vowed to continue their campaign for as long as it takes.

    A huge crowd swarmed the steps of Parliament House in Adelaide before marching to Rundle Mall.

    Paul Coats from the Adelaide Refugee Action Group has vowed to continue the fight.

    “This decision by the Federal Government is absolutely monstrous,” he said.

    “We’re here to show that we are outraged by the horrible, horrible lurch to the right that Kevin Rudd has made and we’re not going to put up with it.

    http://rac-vic.org/2013/07/25/emergency-protest-rally-for-refugees-stop-rudds-png-plan/

    * Don’t let Rudd dump refugees on PNG.
    * Welcome refugee boats – Let them land, let them stay
    * Increase refugee intake from Indonesia to save lives
    * Stop deportations to danger

    1:00pm Saturday July 27 at the State Library, Swanston & Latrobe St. CBDRudd has slammed the door shut to refugees. The ALP government is deporting every single asylum seeker who arrives in Australia by boat to PNG and will also deny them the right to resettle in Australia. Not even Howard implemented such draconian anti-refugee policies.

    Now is the time for us to take a stand and fight for human rights!
    Rain, hail or shine.

    Help promote the rally by clicking attending on facebook event page. Invite all your friends.

    Rally organised by Refugee Action Collective (Victoria) and Raaf Activists

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/protesters-vow-fightback-on-refugee-plan-20130720-2qb43.html

    The protest, in Melbourne’s CBD, was organised after Australia signed an agreement that no person arriving in Australia by boat without a visa would be settled in Australia. They would instead be processed in Papua New Guinea and settled there if their case was proved.

    Co-chair of the Refugee Action Collective, Lucy Honan, told a rain-soaked crowd of about 600 that the rally was the beginning of a “fightback” against the hardline policy.

    “This policy, where we send refugees packing to Papua New Guinea, our poor struggling neighbour, is going to fal

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/protesters-vow-fightback-on-refugee-plan-20130720-2qb43.html#ixzz2u71exawy

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-22/angry-protesters-confront-rudd-over-asylum/4835008

    Protesters angry at Labor’s new policy on asylum seekers have confronted Prime Minister Kevin Rudd outside the ALP Caucus meeting in Sydney.

    A group of noisy demonstrators gathered outside the Balmain Town Hall where Mr Rudd briefed his colleagues about the new policy.

    They were angry about the Prime Minister’s plan to send all asylum seekers who arrive by boat to Papua New Guinea for processing and resettlement.

    The demonstrators yelled “Shame Labor, shame” and called Mr Rudd a “racist coward”.

  80. And a lot of them would be from the left dianaart. It’s a big difference between the left and right. The left are mostly more than willing to call their government and party to account and to protest against them. The right are sheep and the thought of rightly and justifiably criticising their party or politicians is an anathema to them being a blind follower.

    Please don’t rock the boat, baaaa.

  81. Neil, since you refuse to answer the most simple and basic questions, then i must assume that Crowley is right , and that you indeed are a former politician ! who real name is JOHN WINSTON HOWARD ! if you do not deny it then it must be true !

  82. “So what has Morrison done about the horror of off-shore detention?”

    Dunno. What would you do??

    I guess you would say we should release the 1,300 that Labor locked up into community detention.

    Still would like a number as to how many refugees we should take.

    10,000, 20,000, one million, twenty million??

  83. NoS

    Safer and cheaper for refugee seekers to be determined onshore – we do still have facilities left – while not ideal are far better than the squalor of such as Manus Island and Nauru. Would also reduce the costly use of our Navy in dumping refugees back in international waters.

    Australia can easily cope with around 40,000 asylum seekers, given that our yearly intake of refugees is a steady 20,000 – 40,000 would allow for any sudden increase due to further wars, famine, climate change and the like.

    FYI

    There are not millions of refugees floating around in Australian waters – the bulk of refugees are being helped by Europe and other nations. Australia does not receive anywhere near the numbers fleeing from places such Africa as other countries do.

    Here’s another couple of links for you to completely ignore or at best cherry pick

    https://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.REFG

  84. “Australia can easily cope with around 40,000 asylum seekers,

    I have no problem with that.

    But we should take them from UNHCR camps like we did under John Howard.

  85. Double Sigh, Howard avoided taking refugees from UNHCR camps, he helped set up the Jakarta UNHCR office so he could then peddle his ‘secondary movement’ myth….. which is something you have swallowed hook, line and sinker NoS
    NoS, you really should look at the facts instead of following the made-up shit of that traitor Howard.
    “….the myths peddled by the Howard government about “queue jumpers”. Since the 2001 election most liberal MP’s follow the wedge politics line of John Howard and Philip Ruddock, who created the concept of ‘queue jumpers’, to assist them in separating out “refugees with initiative” (on-shore asylum claimants, who come to Australia without being asked) from those who get a personal invite from the Australian government, while they’re in one of the refugee camps around the world (off-shore refugees). . ”
    http://www.safecom.org.au/indoqueue.htm

  86. Oh shit, Neil still isn’t on about his furphy about taking refugees only from camps.

    No need to answer, of course he is, he’s bashed his head against that one for years.

    For the edification of those other than Neil, who this has been explained to and I once provided lots of links and sources to, those from the camps are more likely to be criminal, corrupt and thugs.

    One of the main reasons asylum seekers leave the camps is because they fear for their and their family’s safety from within the camps. There are extortion gangs and thugs who use threats and violence to get either themselves and their families ahead in the processing or extort money to get those who can most afford it to the head of the processing. Also criminals fleeing the law use the refugee camps as a way out instead of being arrested. They also use violence to make sure they get processed ahead of any of the other hapless refugees.

    So what Neil is telling you all that refugees should just stay in the camps and be robbed, raped, beaten and even killed, often from militias and gangs outside of the camps.

    Illustrates what an uncaring and cruel arsehole Neil is that he believes innocent desperate people should stay where they are and face atrocities every day rather than try a desperate and dangerous journey that is non the less gives more chance than the camps. That is unless you are under Morrison’s regime, then he visits the same horrors on you as a lesson for being so desperate in trying to find safety.

  87. “Sigh”

    Not sure what the sigh is for.

    Fact is under Howard we were taking all our refugees from UNHCR camps.

    And that is the way it should be.

  88. “Oh shit, Neil still isn’t on about his furphy about taking refugees only from camps.”

    You have mentioned many times you no longer read what i say.

    You are not telling lies again are you??

  89. No surprise. Pyne is going to hold an enquiry into Craig Thomson.

    For fuck sake Liberals, you are now going to be in a world of hurt when Labor get back into power as Iraq and the expenses rorts of a large number of your members, none more so than Abbott, enquiries will come thick and fast.

    Abbott slush fund anyone and the appointment of unqualified toadies. Why even enquiries into Abbott’s enquiries.

  90. @Möbius Ecko

    In future, will just delete anything from NoS – before reading.

    I do that on other web-blogs; delete, delete, delete – my life far too valuable to waste on trolls.

  91. I would read Neil diannaart like I do The Don/Summo/latin name or whatever he calls himself this week, VOYAGER shout my moniker, JohnB etc. if Neil would ever come up with something original, but alas he’s bashed the same small handful of points so often over so many years now I can answer his posts for him almost word for work.

    It’s as though his small brain can only hold a little amount of data at any one time and that needs to be circulated around and around to keep him functioning. Problem is that it’s almost entirely Labor bashing so that’s nearly all that ever comes out, and only a couple of the same things even on that front. He cannot elucidate anything outside of Labor hate, it’s his answer to just about every topic and question.

    And heaven forgive you if he’s ever right on something, which is rare but does happen and at one time said I was wrong and he was right. He will bring up that one fact not for weeks or even months after, but years, long after it’s relevant or even on topic.

    Then when you highlight where he is wrong, giving sources and data, he just ignores it and changes topic, with a 99% certainty it will be another Labor bash on a different issue.

    I’ve found it so much better to just ignore his posts altogether and apart from the occasional post where he’s quoted this has worked for my sanity and peace of mind.

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