What do you make of this?

From today’s SMH comes this ominous piece of news:

The Abbott government has quietly introduced a hardline code of conduct for ministerial staff, banning political commentary on social media sites including Twitter and Facebook.

The ban also extends to current Coalition staff writing books and newspaper articles and staff seeking “further guidance” on the new rules are referred directly to Tony Abbott’s chief of staff, Peta Credlin.

I used the word ‘ominous’ because:

“The Prime Minister’s chief of staff should be consulted for further guidance.”

Though staff have not been banned from using Twitter, Facebook or other social media sites, the move is designed to head off potentially embarrassing commentary for the government.

What do you make of this?

Credlin

443 comments on “What do you make of this?

  1. Talk about micro-managing, Credlin is the all-too-powerful micro-manager from hell. Doesn’t sound as though she has much faith in the MPs’ abilities to behave with decorum (which we know they have little of). This will, no doubt, cause some disquiet amongst some of the L-NP MPs, not so much re the restrictions but about who is imposing them.

    Credlin is our unelected, quasi-PM & is a true faceless backroom person manipulating the government to suit their donors & sponsors.

    Hope she also puts the clamps on their sponsored RWNJ trolls.

  2. Just shows you how desperate some of these politicians are to be in power when they are willing to be controlled by an underling like Credlin, they have no self respect just sheer bloody minded ambition

  3. Migs, this is just an addendum to my post, “Ok, hands up all those that voted for Peta Credlin?”

    Sorry, but I have to say it… These people are bat-shit crazy… Nut-jobs all 😯 Or to quote the last two lines of my poem “In your guts you know he’s nuts”

    Cos in your guts
    you know they’re all bloody nuts!

    Joy, maybe her nickname should be “Nut Cracker” cos she seems to have a death grip on Abbott’s 😯

    And I agree, she is the ultimate LNP faceless… Cretin 😀

    Cheers 😀

  4. It means that Glass Jaw Tony and Peta Cretin are shit scared of any the supposedly “Adult” Abbott Government talking out of place and stuffing things up. They are literally shitting bricks that they will look worse than what they are, even with the News Corpse misfits, the shock jocks and parts of the ABC covering for them every step of the way. What a pathetic, putrid, puerile and piss weak mob they are. What we have is basically a dictatorship running this country. It makes sense that Abbott is being called One Term Tony.

  5. never have seen Peta on Facebook but learned a lot about her on Facebook ! case of trying to close the gate after the cow is out of the paddock ! I think the time I nigh for a huge scandal ! Are we ready to sign the divorce papers Marge !! Go get em !!

  6. Look, just because half the Labor front bench were rooting each other at various stages, doesn’t mean that Abbott and Credlin are an item, no matter how much you wish they were as promiscuous as Julia and Bill and Nicola, not to mention Craig.

    The Libs guidelines to parliamentarians is nothing suss, just good management, although maybe not as contrived as Julia hiring that McTiernan chappy to confect propaganda and commentary on social media outlets and in the letters pages.

  7. Unbelievable JohnB. Behavior you would and have condemned to the highest degree for Labor, whether true or not, you make excuses for in this government. Nothing shows how much of an utter hypocrite you are than this, then you top it off with another jab at Gillard in a very lame “please look over there away from the woeful Abbott and his supposedly hidden puppet master Credlin.”

    And how would you know if Abbott and Credlin are all above board. In another display of crass hypocrisy you accuse Labor of all sorts of goings on based on nothing more than wingnuttery, but again based on absolutely nothing, defend Abbott.

  8. “Look, just because half the Labor front bench were rooting each other at various stages,”

    He he. Well at least the women in the Labor party would get most men sexually excited. Some of them are very nice. Unlike the women in the government who are fugly. No not Fucking ugly, but fugly that’s a thousand times ugly. Some of them wouldn’t get a root in a wood yard I shit you not. I would rather be celibate than have sex with someone like Bronwyn Bishop. Woof!!!

  9. I don’t remember seeing the IPA or Peta Credlin as names on the voting slips last September.
    I do remember thinking at the time …well we’re going to get a rabble… but I never thought it would be as dysfunctional as this.
    Perhaps I could sell John B a copy of the Horst Wessel song sheet music?

  10. @Mobius “And how would you know if Abbott and Credlin are all above board. In another display of crass hypocrisy you accuse Labor of all sorts of goings on based on nothing more than wingnuttery,”

    Well, in relation to Abbott/Credlin, there’s no rumours other than the wishful thinking of the Labor nutters.
    In relation to the “wingnuttery”, please google and read up on Roxon and Shorten, Shorten and his ex wife, (Bryce’s daughter) and the (unconfirmed) rumours about his office assistant.
    Then there’s Gillard and the married Craig Emerson. Oh and (a while back) Gareth Gareth and wotsername from the Democrats who defected to Labor.

    All personal, all irrelevant to running the country, but you’re speculating (without foundation) on Abbott and Credlin, so I thought this worth reminding you.

    @Phil, I’ll refrain, as I have in the past, from making sexist, derogatory comments about the appearance of any female MPs (including Gillard) like you’ve done about the Liberal women.

    @diannaart “Libs can do no wrong; Labor always wrong. Such balance…”
    And what the hell do we see on this page, dianna, nothing but lies and spin about the Libs and papering over the failures of Labor !

  11. .But deregulation is very unlikely to drive productivity gains. Indeed, the whole concept of deregulation is so problematic as to be largely meaningless as a guide to policy reform.

    At first glance, the idea of deregulation seems appealing – remove government interference from workplaces and let workers and management get on with being productive. But the idea that a modern economy can function without systems of workplace regulation is nonsense.

    Regulation simply means a system of imposing order and predictability in workplaces and markets. Advocates of “deregulation” would find it extremely difficult to point to a successful market economy which operates without some system of regulation.

    Wor……….

    http://theconversation.com/workplace-deregulation-wont-boost-productivity-22942?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+10+February+2014&utm_content=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+10+February+2014+CID_90d9b9d86e1181ee8506d8568c133e58&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Workplace%20deregulation%20wont%20boost%20productivity

  12. @lawrencewinder “I don’t remember seeing the IPA or Peta Credlin as names on the voting slips last September.”

    I guess you didn’t see Paul Howes, or Ged Kearney or officials from a dozen other unions on those voting slips either?

  13. “I guess you didn’t see Paul Howes, or Ged Kearney or officials from a dozen other unions on those voting slips either?”

    Should have looked a little harder. You would have found they are elected officials of the industrial arm of Labor. Yes, and at this time, they are all acting as officials of unions.

    Now when it comes to Peta and the others mentioned. Who elected them.

  14. Michael, can there be a rule, that commenters cannot use the names of those who comment here.

    Not fair. Can they automatically be blocked.

  15. Well, it demonstrates that the ‘adults in charge’ cannot be trusted. Doubt it will last three years. The more you screw people down, as Credlin is doing, the more they build up a head of steam. It is the impetus of every rebellion.

  16. Did we mishear Abbott once again. Did he really say he was going to get rid of a million jobs?

    Toyota gone. Finish 2017.

  17. I find JohnB’s lies, innuendoes & slurs to be outrageous. If I wanted to see such disgraceful garbage I would head off to the disgusting, libellous & egregious blogs of his ilk such as the malevolent Pickering’s crap or the malicious Kangaroo court of Oz smearfest.

    Do hope he gets sued one of these days. That is, if he ever has the “courage” to use his own name.

  18. Joy, it is not hard to trace anyone on the web., Still he should not be allowed to use names of other contributors.

  19. I wonder if she is the one on the other end of the little earpiece that Abbott wears in his right ear whenever he is interviewed on TV? He always tries to turn his head to the right so that you can’t see it but the ummms and aaahhs while he waits for instructions are a bit of a giveaway!

  20. “Phil, I’ll refrain, as I have in the past, from making sexist, derogatory comments about the appearance of any female MPs (including Gillard) like you’ve done about the Liberal women.”

    Could I humbly suggest you get your irony and logic meter checked. So it’s o/k for our mob to be rooting each other is it? Fuck off you numb nut.

  21. BTW you doofus, there is nothing wrong with the way Gillard looks, so making a derogatory remark about her appearance would be rather ingenuous. You said half the Labor party front bench was rooting each other at some or other. 1. How would you know who was rooting who? 2. Are you jealous?

  22. JohnB can you point out anywhere I have referred to Credlin and Abbott except to state the obvious that she’s the one behind him calling the shots, something Liberal party members and government ministers have complained about.

    On the other hand as usual you do the usual side step, back flip and skirt around whilst again pointing at Labor in avoiding looking at the failure that is Abbott and this government.

    That you and the other right wingers have done nothing but hark on about Labor proves more than anything about what an utter failure this government is, and on top of that pile of stinking crap the worst leader this country has ever seen.

  23. JOHN B. Talk about unconfirmed rumors, Why repeat something that has no credit at all . It makes you look like a positive dill. Covering your butt by saying it is unconfirmed is an act of cowardice it either is true or false. What is it in a legal talk not hearsay.

  24. Peta is failing as mother, the children are playing up. Must not let the children (LNP MPs) talk to the adults (the electorate). If the party don’t trust them how can we. This is definitely a variation on my understanding of democracy.

  25. We should ask why Peta has so much power over the Liberals, when the Australian public did not elect her. What has she got in Qualifications and how much taxpayers money does she get to support the Abbott. In simpler terms What has she got on the liberals that she is on their payroll.

  26. @Phil “Could I humbly suggest you get your irony and logic meter checked. So it’s o/k for our mob to be rooting each other is it? Fuck off you numb nut.”

    Phil, do I have to explain it properly for you ?
    I have always objected to criticising politicians based on looks, so I objected to people making derogatory comments about Gillard as well as the comments here about female Liberal MPs. I mentioned Gillard to show that I am not a hypocrite like you and the political leanings of the person is irrelevant when I object to sexist commentary on a woman’s appearance.

    As for the rooting ALP, well that was to add some context to the claims about Credlin and Abbott. There is nothing to those rumours but ALP slander.
    On the other hand there has been promiscuous behaviour in Labor ranks which none of you criticise.

    passum2013Ronb “Talk about unconfirmed rumors, Why repeat something that has no credit at all . It makes you look like a positive dill.”
    Those rumours were mentioned by journalists, I mention them because they have been reported independently. The Credlin rumour comes only from the ALP online gossipers.

    @Deedz from the west
    “I wonder if she is the one on the other end of the little earpiece that Abbott wears in his right ear whenever he is interviewed on TV? He always tries to turn his head to the right so that you can’t see it but the ummms and aaahhs while he waits for instructions are a bit of a giveaway!”

    Deedz, did you see the comment from Leigh Sales explaining that the earpiece was to hear HER QUESTIONS ?

    Did you think for one moment (clearly not) that the earpieces are put in the ear of the talent away from the side where the camera is pointing, so that it will be less obvious ?
    This happens all the time, with reporters, newsreaders and even guest interviewees. It’s standard practice.

    @joy cooper
    “I find JohnB’s lies, innuendoes & slurs to be outrageous.
    …Do hope he gets sued one of these days. That is, if he ever has the “courage” to use his own name.”
    What “slur” or “innuendo” was that, Joy ?
    I mentioned only one situation which has not been confirmed, but was reported, and denied. It was relevant because some here are repeating rumours which have NOT been reported in the media, probably because it’s just a fabrication by some nasty little trolls from the ALP.

    Fed up
    (“I guess you didn’t see Paul Howes, or Ged Kearney or officials from a dozen other unions on those voting slips either?”)

    “Should have looked a little harder. You would have found they are elected officials of the industrial arm of Labor.
    Yes, and at this time, they are all acting as officials of unions.

    Now when it comes to Peta and the others mentioned. Who elected them.”

    Peta Credlin was elected by the same voters at the general election as those union officials. NONE.

    They may well be officials or employees of Labor, they were not elected at the general election, neither were Credlin and other staffers of the Liberals.
    To claim those union officials, not part of the general election, hold some special place when compared to LNP staffers and officials, is just hypocrisy.

    Fed up “Joy, it is not hard to trace anyone on the web.”
    Why would you want to trace me, to make threats ?
    “Still he should not be allowed to use names of other contributors.”
    I’ve been using that identity for years. Not uncommon names and initials.

    You’ll be able to determine which posts are mine, they’ll be the ones containing commonsense, logic and objectivity… oh, and they’ll probably make you really really angry because I am correct.

  27. This is actually a good thing. Treat people like you don’t trust them and they will respond.

    Howard and Hawke had the the right idea in letting their people talk – sure the talkers made mistakes occasionally but generally it kept the frustration levels down. Abbott & Credlin are still basking in the glory that comes from getting everyone over the ‘better’ side of the Green Chamber but that won’t last forever. When the glory has tarnished to a degree and Credlin is still enforcing rules such as this – it will breed resentment and sooner or later there will be an almightly explosion.

  28. @JohnB,

    Why don’t you just piss off and troll elsewhere ..
    you are so myopic that you can only see the government through the ‘not as bad as Labor’ filter.
    As such your opinion is actually fairly worthless here

    .. just GO AWAY

    (I would not normally be this brutal, but after losing what was left of the car industry at the hands of these cretins I have no patience left for fools)

  29. Open Government and ADULT behaviour. Bullshit. They are behaving like aliens and control freaks. Won’t be long before the ranks revolt. There has to be someone left in the LNP with half a brain. Win by any means has to have a limit. The are behaving like the Nazi’s I Hitlers Germany.

  30. JohnB

    You are from a parallel universe. One where the Libs govern fairly and equitably for all Australians. Somehow you have crossed the space/time continuum into our universe. The one in which the Libs govern for 1% of Australians, see example:

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/neoliberals-economic-policy-just-a-getrichquicker-fraud-20130120-2d13e.html

    I wish you success in returning to your own universe – if you stay here any longer, the space/time continuum will collapse into a black hole of no return – no public education, no action on pollution, no taxing the wealthy, no more manufacturing in Australia, just a great big nothing.

  31. You’ll be able to determine which posts are mine, they’ll be the ones containing commonsense, logic and objectivity… oh, and they’ll probably make you really really angry because I am correct.

    My god you’re Iain Hall, or a clone.

    Again a post full of double standards and innuendos whilst lambasting the innuendoes of those you oppose. Hypocrite right down the line, just like Hall.

    Something you attack Labor on you forgive this government doing, and you actually use the criticism against Labor’s actions as an excuse for this woeful government.

  32. Tony Abbott jumped to the defence of Andrew Bolt claiming that it was a matter of freedom of speech, but now it seems that Abbott’s own ministers cannot say what they think without getting approval from Ms Credlin. I thought that MPs were elected to Parliament to represent their constituents ie the will of the people. Now it’s seems that this is only if that will reflects the will of Ms Credlin.

  33. Some are dense. Ged Kearney and the other union leaders are talking on behalf of the workers that elected them.

    They are NOT talking as politicians.

    They are not talking on behalf of the politicians, that is the Opposition’s job.

  34. Did I hear Abbott say, it is OK, as new jobs will arise.

    I wonder though, how many of the thousands of car and other workers will have the skills to take the new jobs up.

    No, I do not have the faith that Abbott seems to have. I am also sure, he believes what he is saying.

    It is terrifying when one believes their own spin.

  35. “The Australian Car Industry was destroyed by Abbott The Wrecker in 2014”

    Very dishonest comment. Something to be expected by ALP supporters.

    Fact is back in the 1970’s we used to make basically everything here. And when manufacturers leave they all give the same answer. It is too costly to manufacture in Australia.

    Blaming Abbott who has only been in for 6 months is childish.

    It was Hawke/Keating with Coalition support who lowered the tariffs back in the 1980’s.

  36. What did I say that was wrong??

    Fact is manufacturing has been leaving since the 1970’s. And every manufacturer gives the same reason for leaving- it is too expensive to make things in Australia.

  37. Given Abbotts response tonight re Toyota and that new businesses will open to employ new people, eh? 70,000? expected in all with associated industries to lose jobs, just enforces what a dill he is and perhaps restrictions on talking to the media etc. should be imposed on him as every time he opens his mouth he vomits rubbish

  38. Deedz from the west, I’m with you. I too suspect that he is being fed the answers to media questions via an earpiece. If so, I would love to know whose hand is up the puppet.

  39. O.K. Jeanette what is your solution?? The ALP way is to just throw money at the problem at hope that solves the problem.

  40. Neil I’ve tried before to ask you a question, you never answer I’ll try again. If it is wages that are too expensive to manufacture in Australia, take the car industry how much an hour is an assembly worker worth? $5.00 an hour, $10 an hour, $15 an hour, $20 an hour, I wait with baited breath. No spin.

  41. We have the Toyota decision and the RCX announcement today. Mr. Abetz the minister is available for Laterline.

    At least Abetz has said, that RC also includes employers. Pity he could not get that fact, included in the terms.

    If that was so, it would be labelled an RC into corruption in the industry.

  42. Phil

    I have seen it posted that the way to save the car industry is to pay the production line workers the same wages that the component manufacturers are getting.

    Apparently Holden, Toyota pay wages much higher than people doing similar work in other industries.

    But i take your point. They may need these high wages to pay the bills.

  43. Phil, i have asked some of these trolls questions as well, the only answers I ever get is abuse or bullshit, Although i do remember one saying before the election, that he was sure Tony Abbott would be a very moderate prime minister.

  44. “But i take your point. They may need these high wages to pay the bills”

    So what’s your point then ? People in other industries would be on the same or similar wages. We are never going to pay people here what Coolies make in China and nor should we. There are a myriad of reasons the car manufacturing industries are pulling out, and wages is not one of them.

    Holden has already gone public and said wages have nothing to do with it.

  45. Apparently they are not. Holden, Toyota workers earn more than in similar industries. I have been told that the component manufacturers earn less than Holden workers.

  46. “Phil, i have asked some of these trolls questions as well, the only answers I ever get is abuse or bullshit,”

    Indeed. The conservative working class are not very bright. they all lack a basic education. I always ask myself why most of the worlds scientists, academics, journalists, teachers, and other intellectuals are of a left bent? Obvious they are smarter than your average bear. I really don’t take conservatives that serious,.

    It is all about the “Golden Rule” Those with the gold make the rules. They have the media in their pocket and until we can reverse that, it will always be business as usual.

  47. “Apparently they are not. Holden, Toyota workers earn more than in similar industries. I have been told that the component manufacturers earn less than Holden workers.”

    O/K I’ll play, how much? What’s fair, you tell me.

  48. It is not about what grants to industry cost the government, or the taxpayer as some say,

    It is about what the government will earn or save from giving the money.

    The companies have a duty to take them money where they will get the biggest returns. Nothing to do with their wealth. They do not have to stay in this country,

    If the company finds with new investment, including some from governments, they can ensure ongoing profits, they are willing to stay.

    Now, if the government refuses to come to the party, it is the Australian taxpayer and workers that lose out. Not the parent company.

    They will go elsewhere to make the money., Yes, for them, it is win win, whichever way it turns out.

    For our workers, it is a tragedy.

  49. How about paying them award wages. Would that save Toyota, Holden workers?? The same wages the component manufacturers who will also lose their job when Toyota leaves are on.

  50. “How about paying them award wages”

    Well you seem to be the expert on this, how much is that ? And is that fair?

  51. Expert?? No I am not but do you have a solution?? But i did find this

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/be-holden-to-us-all-carmaker-must-bite-the-wages-bullet/story-fnkdypbm-1226766308075#

    “In the past, Holden has misinformed us on its workers’ salaries, claiming the average worker earns $55,000. Journalists, without checking Holden’s workplace agreement, a public document, have repeated this claim. While the Modern Award base salaries for vehicle builders are in the modest $37,000-$42,000 range, the base rates in Holden’s agreement are in the $60,000-$80,000 range. Add on to this loadings and penalties and I am comfortable betting that if Holden was compelled by government, as it should be, to produce the group certificates of workers, earnings would show in the $100,000 to $150,000 range………….If the Holden workers went back on to the award, Holden would be miraculously transformed. Labour costs would drop by somewhere between 50 and 75 per cent. Productivity would skyrocket. No productivity inquiry would be needed. Holden might even make a profit and pay the country a dividend as return on its many years of “co-investment”.”

  52. Neil of Sydney
    “The Australian Car Industry was destroyed by Abbott The Wrecker in 2014″

    Very dishonest comment. Something to be expected by ALP supporters.
    ….
    It was Hawke/Keating with Coalition support who lowered the tariffs back in the 1980′s.”

    phil
    “Neil go and take your drugs and go back to sleep, you’re delusional.”

    Phil, Neil is actually correct, you seem to be the delusional one (oh, sorry, that was abuse, I’m not allowed to “abuse”, only the Laborites are allowed to hurl abuse).

    Read up on the Button Car Plan from the 1980s.

    (wikipedia)
    “At the time of its inception, Australia’s motor industry was heavily protected by import tariffs, and quantitative restrictions on imports or quotas which protected the assembly of thirteen models by various manufacturers. The Button car plan aimed to reduce this number to six models, with the aim of forcing industry consolidation. The overarching aim of the scheme was to make the motor vehicle industry in Australia more efficient by consolidation of resources, allowing the import tariffs to be gradually reduced. This in turn would theoretically expose the local industry to increased competition from imported products, fostering improvement in local vehicles and creating the basis for a competitive export industry.”

    Now, while Neil of Sydney is perfectly moderate, objective and correct with his facts, you labor luvvies will be horrified to find that I actually disagree with him on response.
    I would have preferred the Government, despite the horrendous debt left for them by Labor, to have continued to bail out the motor vehicle industry as well as SPC.

  53. Neil, what do you mean by award wages? Could it be minimum wages you are talking about.

    Wages with no loadings for experience or skills.. No loadings for qualifications.

    Are you saying, employers and workers have no right to come to an enterprise bargaining agreement.

    Of course, you must mean, the only employer that can do this, are weak kneed. Gutless wonders in Abbott’s eyes.

    Wonder why Abbott did not last long, with that job he had with the cement company out west

    Neil, do you really understand what you have copied from somewhere like Menzies House,

    What are the award wages you are talking about? Sounds good, but I am a little confused.

  54. Neil, if government subsidies bring increased returns for the government is. If not paying them leads to further government outlays, once again, yes. If you believe SPC closing down, will not cost the government more, you are sadly mistaken.

    What has been the returns to the government, over the last few years, of subsidies paid. What would have been the lost to government, if they were not paid.

  55. Give me strength. NoS offers up an opinion piece from the Liberals’ propaganda arm AKA the Australian as a reliable source of facts?!?! Strewth wot next? Pickering? I’m thankful for my Murdoch Block.

    Not mentioned by him, or other RWNJs, is the fact that ALL countries substantially subsidise their car manufacturing industries. Much, much more than they were here. And no, NoS, I will not give you any links. Do your own Googling or Binging.

  56. Ethanol industry being subsidised to the tune of $100 million a year. The main player is a close friend of one John Howard. Previous government report into the industry found it to be inefficient and gave little to no return for that $100 million pa.

    Howardistas are lobbying Abbott not to cut this unreasonable subsidy on the grounds of, wait for it, jobs lost.

    Why was the subsidy to Cadbury not removed as it was for SPC? Abbott never answered that question in the several times he was directly asked it. The only reply was jobs. Also happens that Cadbury sponsored his rorted bike rides and is being used as a pork barrel, something Liberal governments waste billions of dollars on.

  57. Have a look at the factories of today. They are highly automated. Means that the wage bill is a much smaller t component of the firm’s cost. Wages have always been only a small part of a business outlays. To blame worker’s wages as the whole cause of a failing business just does not add up.

    Does anyone know how many workers’ hours it takes to build a car, say compared to even a decade ago.

    Shorten on this morning, in full flight. Yes, it is now time for Shorten anbd Labor to take up the fight.

    I feel a little sorry for McFarlane. He has been rolled. He says, with a little more time, he could have saved Yoyata. I blkel8ieve he could have, but not with the government, he is a member of. He was left in the dark, with GMH. He was saying one thing, while Hockey and his mob fulled the mat from under him, Did not even appear to take McFarlane into their confidence.

    Abbott is happy to see any unionized industry to go. One cannot say otherwise now.

    Gillard gave big job in relation to education. Wonder what Abbott can do, when he is no longer PM. Cannot see him on the speech circuit, as Howard is doing. Who would want to listen to him.

    Abbott appears, is saying jobs are going, jobs come. Yes, shit does happen. Sadly under Abbott, it is the wrong people.

  58. In regards to SPC, i wonder what warren truss is thinking ? Truss used to the mayor of the the Kingaroy shire council. The region grows navy beans, they have a factory which employs local workers. The closure of SPC will have an impact on workers and Navy bean farmers in the region, One of which is Gary Truss, Warrens brother. I would like to be a fly on the wall in that family.

  59. Yes, we all know what Abbott thinks about people that dare give him advice. Even those that are paid to do so.

    We know now what the Abbott Government does with “frank and fearless advice”:

    THE Abbott government has dumped its top infrastructure adviser in a brutal decision to clear the way for its new agenda on road and rail investment amid a political row over the scrutiny of billions of dollars in new spending.

    Infrastructure Australia head Michael Deegan was told to go on paid leave ahead of the formal abolition of his position under changes to be fought over when federal parliament resumes on Tuesday.

    The edict, confirmed in writing yesterday, followed Mr Deegan’s outspoken criticism of the Coalition plan to overhaul the way Infrastructure Australia advises ministers on major projects.

    …Coalition sources said Mr Deegan had been too close to former infrastructure minister Anthony Albanese and had to go in the wake of his complaints about government policy last month.

    And a quick reminder of why Mr Deegan was outspoken with the support of the BCA:

    The Business Council of Australia has called on the Abbott government to scrap plans to potentially muzzle and water down the independence of Infrastructure Australia, the leading public advisor on nation-building projects.

    The council, which is playing a major role in the government’s audit commission, insists planned changes to Infrastructure Australia must ensure it remains free of political interference.

    The BCA push, in a submission released on Monday, supports the head of Infrastructure Australia, Michael Deegan, who blasted Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss last month for proposed changes that would give him ministerial power to dictate entire classes of projects to be spared from the advisory body’s scrutiny.

    This is not in anyone’s interests except the Government in the short term and not even in its longer term. Infrastructure in the next decade is one of the key mitigating factors in Australia’s post-boom economic adjustment to better competitiveness.

    Thoroughly and independently analysed productivity based infrastructure will help close the the widening gap between our current living standards and productive capacity. Without it, other more painful factors will be forced to shift further instead, like real wages falling more than otherwise. Not to mention that infrastructure development will be vital to unclogging our cities as the great population ponzi marches on.

    The Abbott Government’s roads agenda is not at the top of either Infrastructure Australia’s or the Productivity Commission’s productivity list and putting pork on the fork of a minority rural party driven by agrarian socialism is not in the national interest, period.

    Ken Henry is out this morning bewailing similar:

    AUSTRALIA does not have the infrastructure to seize the full potential of the Asian century, Ken Henry, a former Treasury secretary and current NAB and ASX director, has warned as he called for “more creative, innovative thinking” about the nation’s infrastructure needs.

    …”We do not have the infrastructure requirements for an economy and a society that is well connected with Asia,” said Dr Henry, who also spearheaded the Gillard government’s Asian century white paper.

    “There is enormous potential in the Asian century and we simply don’t have the infrastructure assets, the infrastructure services, to ensure that in the commercial space — but also the social space — we make the most of those connections,” he said.

    …The SMART research group has produced a green paper, which criticises “wasteful” spending on projects as a recurring problem. Research from consultant McKinsey, for instance, says Australia is spending more than is required as a percentage of GDP but the spending is inefficient.

    Pork!

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/02/abbott-gets-pork-on-his-fork/

  60. John B, you really are a LIarbril troll, why bother coming here and pissing people off, is that what you get paid for, trolling all the Labor comments with lies and propaganda, what an ignorant man you are, really get sick of reading your crap

  61. Quick Mr. Abbott, we need another Royal Commission. We know how much you are a stickler for law and order. You did say, this is what drives you.

    DAVID Jones chairman Peter Mason will leave the department store business in the wake of investor anger at controversial share trading by two of the company’s directors.
    Mr Mason has announced he and director Leigh Clapham will step down within three months, while fellow board member Steve Vamos has decided to leave the company immediately.
    The resignations follow investor anger at the purchase of more than 32,000 David Jones shares by Mr Vamos and Mr Clapham in October last year.
    The purchase, which was approved by Mr Mason, was made the day the company received a merger proposal from Myer and days before a better-than-expected sales report prompted a spike in the company’s share pric.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/djs-chairman-directors-to-step-down/story-e6frfkur-1226823261971

  62. That cartoon definitely catches the persona of Brandis.

    Nathine does not appear very happy with the Federal government this morning ABC 24. I think he might be asking where those new jobs are coming from.

    I believe the public might be wanting to hear more from Abbott, than his attitude of shit happens, along he regrets, as if he is an observer, not PM.

  63. Maybe Abbott would have been better placed, for many hours in cabinet meetings yesterday, putting his vindictive agenda of RC aside, and dealing with the infrastructure, needed to ensure jobs for now and the future.

    Not much to ask of any PM.

  64. @Gail Clarke “John B, you really are a LIarbril troll, why bother coming here and pissing people off, is that what you get paid for, trolling all the Labor comments with lies and propaganda, what an ignorant man you are, really get sick of reading your crap”

    Sorry to disappoint you Gail, I am not a paid or organised troll, like those who were mustered by Gillard’s Mc Ternan 457 employee to flood the airwaves and social media with pro Labor scare tactics.

    I am just a concerned Australian, former union member and ordinary worker who sees right through the lies, deceit and hypocrisy of the Labor feeding trough for apparatchiks and the endemic corruption in powerful unions and some big businesses.

  65. No corruption in big business. No crooked developers. None crooked in the mining industry. We all know how responsible the transport industry is.

    Yes, all are a pure as the driven snow.

  66. Yes, how dare one criticize this PM or government.

    Of course, there is only one contributor to this site, that has ever had any connection with unions over their life time. Most, if this contributor is correct, have no idea of how bad and evil unions are for the working man.

  67. This is what takes the time of this cabinet. Last week, it was five hours for SPC. Wonder how many hours were spent yesterday,am putting together the terms of reference for what is the 40th odd the inquiry, set up by this government.

    No time to deal with the real concerns that face this country.

  68. Jobs for defunct car manufacturing could transition to renewable tech…. my bad, Tony thinks climate change is crap.

    We’re screwed.

  69. Yes, and the NBNCo, with fibre to the home not needed.

    Too bad abut Better Schools and education for the future.

    Cannot have money for our scientist either, they might just come up with new technology.

    Yes, and there are many jobs that will go, when the sight of 11 bits of legislation for the CEF is repealed.

    Then selling off those water permits, that the previous government bought, will ensure the health of the Murray/Darling basin. Yes, an open go in our National Parks will indeed create many jobs.

  70. All the money the government saves through cutbacks that they say we need to have to rescue our economy from collapse, is then wasted on royal witch hunts for political purposes ! yeah makes sense to me ! : (

  71. Shorten now on ABC 24. Would say, Labor is ready to go on the attack at last.

    Kinds words to those suffering the fires.

    .
    Have not heard any of Abbott. Appears fires might be connected to carbon emissions. Abbott must believe he can ignore the weather we are having.

    Yes, the attack is occurring.

    I can see Abbott rushing back to his cellar, or is it dungeon.

  72. Very true Steven Subhash James, can hear him salivating from here, the offensive piece of garbage. NoS also uses his cretinous RWNJ mate’s mendacious blog as a source for his “facts”. How stupid does he think we are? It’s almost as bad as giving a link to an opinion piece in the “Australian” claiming it as a reliable source.

    Of course we all know he’s just trying to increase traffic to these deceitful, deceptive,& delusional “blogs” with their libellous, cooked up, so-called “facts”. He’s certifiable.

  73. Mate, like i have said before, the hatred of you people is amazing. And of course will make no contribution to the problem.

    Fact is we have been losing manufacturing since the 1970’s. Most of it under Labor. It was Hawke/Keating with Coalition support who dropped the tarriffs.

    I blame human greed and Union stupidity for losing our car industry.

  74. Neil,The hatred is all on your side of the fence, the conservatives are the ones responsible for mass sackings throughout this country, while you sit there and gloat about it. we have a new adolf in charge, and you just love it.

  75. Mobius Echo don’t know that I did actually say Australian car subsidies were the lowest just that many other countries subsidised at a higher rate. I was answering that cretin NoS so my response had to be more simplistic. He now claims that the US subsidies are only $166 per car when Factcheck says it is $2908.

    Factcheck was also criticised severely by Abbott as being of questionable value for money mostly because they have called out his & his ministers lies.

  76. Fed up (yesterday 9.56am)

    Abbott bears a striking similarity to Leni Riefenstahl.

    There are other worrying similarities too.

  77. “Neil,The hatred is all on your side of the fence, the conservatives are the ones responsible for mass sackings throughout this country”

    Well i was just called an offensive piece of garbage by Joy. The hatred is on your side.

    And i blame the ALP, Unions and human greed for losing our car industry.

    Toyota workers saw Nissan, Mitsubishi, Ford and Holden leave.

    Last year Toyota management asked the Toyota workers instead of shutting down for three weeks could we only shut down for 10 days. The countries that Toyota export to do not celebrate Christmas so December is a good time to export cars. Toyota workers refused to change.

    Every manufacturer who has left since the 1970’s says the same thing. It is too expensive to manufacture things in Australia.

  78. Well you are an offensive piece of garbage NoS with your apparent ecstatic delight in the failures of various enterprises & the loss of jobs all in the name of trying to score “points”.

    You also happily malign people such as Bill Shorten whilst defending your unworthy hero Abbott & his moronic front bench.

  79. Also NoS what a weak excuse you claim for rubbishing Toyota workers for taking Christmas off. What has the fact that countries Toyota export to don’t celebrate Christmas have to do with anything?

  80. YAWN. And you people wonder why I support the Coalition.

    And tell me how many companies shut down for three weeks at Christmas time?? A ten day shut down is more normal. No wonder it is so expensive to make cars in Australia.

    Joy – your personal abuse will not help save the few manufacturing jobs left in this country.

  81. Yes, Neil, it is all those shocking workers fault. One thing I fail to understand is how?

    Yes, wage component of building a Holden is 16%. Even if on

    Maybe other countries do not celebrate Christmas, but they have their own religion and culture holidays.

    As for the USA, their lack of holidays and low wages does not seem to have helped their economy over the last decade. Over fifty percent, including middle class living in poverty.

    They seem to have an economy in deep trouble.

  82. Maybe other countries do not celebrate Christmas, but they have their own religion and culture holidays

    Tell me- how many Australian companies other than Toyota shut down for 3 weeks at Christmas time??

  83. Neil, when it comes to industry, the world has changed. We now live in a global world, where boundaries mean very little.

    Thanks to great leaps in communications, no government can stop this.

    It is now a global economy, we have to compete in. Sorry, one cannot halt progress.

    The secret, to prepare the country to live in this world. Yes, that is putting the physical and human infrastructure in place.

    Yes, it is up to government to provide that structure to take us into the Asian century.

    The last government with NDIS, NBNCO and Better Schools was taking us down this path.

    History has shown, when employers and unions, on behalf of workers, work together, we get better productivity all round.

    The government has the responsibility to ensure the environment is created for the good of its people and industry.

    The government is there, to serve its people.

  84. “And i blame the ALP, Unions and human greed for losing our car industry.”

    You can’t make this shit up, you really can’t.

    NoS you really are something else, fine, we can debate the dollars and cents of the argument until the cows come home. But blaming our side of politics for human greed takes the prize. You support the side of the born to rule mentality, that has more billionaires from exploiting humanity than our side of politics by an order of magnitude, and you accuse us of human greed. Go away you silly man. Just go away you are a fool.

  85. Neil, so according to you, it is the workers in this country are the only ones that have holidays.

    What do you think about wages only being around 16% of building a car. Many other expenses must be present.

    Yes, Neil, our workers is among the most productive, Christmas Holidays taken into account.

  86. ME, that Fact Check result was a little confusing. Yes, Shorten used out of date figures do, but the later ones seem to back up his argument anyway.

    It seemed to be about old figures used, not the conclusion Shorten came too,

    I have a feeling, Facts Check is being nobbled.

  87. You know people like Neil really do make me laugh. I guess he thinks the employees of the mining industry are over paid, when people like Rinehart and Forrester have accumulated billions just by being the holders of the mining lease. That’s right Gina said two bucks an hour would be good.

    The captains of industry are all billionaires and it is the unions that are greedy.

    Neil thinks Holden which is owned by GMH one of the biggest companies in the world is going broke. He thinks it is the corner coffee shop. He tells us Ardmona should be bailed out by Cadbury, there is something a little twisted in Neil’s thought process.

    Neil how much does Sturmbannfuhrer Abbott pay you to come here?

  88. **********************************************************
    Steven Subhash James
    FEBRUARY 12, 2014 @ 8:06 AM
    Neil,The hatred is all on your side of the fence,
    **********************************************************

    ***THE HATRED IS ALL ON YOUR SIDE OF THE FENCE!***

    staffordhall
    FEBRUARY 10, 2014 @ 2:40 PM
    The fascists are at it again.

    Keith
    FEBRUARY 10, 2014 @ 2:46 PM
    Its OK. Mr Burns will reveal all the sexting messages between Scabbot and Cretin when it suits his agenda.

    Truth Seeker
    FEBRUARY 10, 2014 @ 3:17 PM
    ….
    Sorry, but I have to say it… These people are bat-shit crazy… Nut-jobs all 😯 …
    And I agree, she is the ultimate LNP faceless… Cretin 😀

    pterosaur1
    FEBRUARY 10, 2014 @ 3:20 PM
    The lnp seek to create a fascist dystopia

    charybds
    FEBRUARY 10, 2014 @ 7:42 PM
    ….
    Why don’t you just piss off and troll elsewhere ..

    joy cooper
    FEBRUARY 12, 2014 @ 7:24 AM
    Very true Steven Subhash James, can hear him salivating from here, the offensive piece of garbage. NoS also uses his cretinous RWNJ mate’s mendacious blog as a source for his “facts”. ….. he’s just trying to increase traffic to these deceitful, deceptive,& delusional “blogs” with their libellous, cooked up, so-called “facts”. He’s certifiable.

  89. Who made the best speech at the Closing the Gap. Address?

    I love it, that Abbott had to compliment so many past Labor Leaders in this case. Not one Liberal mentioned. I suspect he could have mentioned Malcolm Fraser if he wanted to.

    Abbott talks about officials and police getting kids to school. Shorten talks about, creating a love of learning in these kids.

  90. “The fascists are at it again.” True. No other description is suitable.

    “Sorry, but I have to say it… These people are bat-shit crazy… Nut-jobs all 😯 …
    And I agree, she is the ultimate LNP faceless… Cretin 😀 ” Again True. Some members of Abbotts team by any yard stick are bonkers.

    “The lnp seek to create a fascist dystopia” True.

    “Why don’t you just piss off and troll elsewhere ..” Good idea.

    joy cooper
    FEBRUARY 12, 2014 @ 7:24 AM True.

    No hate here, a couple of innocuous comments and a bit of levity what’s your problem?

  91. Fed up, yes I saw that, 🙄 what a hypocrite, when one of the first broken promises was to the Aboriginal community 😦

    And as much as I support closing the gap on many indigenous issues such as health, schooling,representation etc, there are many gaps in our society that need closing, like the DIVIDE (not just a gap) between the rich and the poor which would greatly benefit all, including Aborigines,

    But for the country’s sake, Abbott’s immediate focus on closing gaps should be directed towards closing his own credibility gapby starting to tell “The Truth” … but then I think that ship has sailed… and we already know that no one in the LNP will discuss on water matters 😯

    The gap between his ears is another one that needs closing, but that’s for another day 😀

    Cheers 😀

  92. TT, I notice that many suspect Shorten’s ability, but I suspect they cannnot criticize his performance today. Yesterday, too, for that matter.

    I love it, that Abbott had to congratulate a long list of Labor people, but not one Liberal. He could have mentioned Maclom Fraser, but choose not to.

  93. “Phil, worry not about trolls. They allow one a hook to hang one’s opinion on. They rarely make sense anyway.”

    It’s just sport for me, I don’t take anything they say serious.

    They are in and keep government from a corrupt compliant media.

    Abbott will soon be gone, he will not last the three years. The back bench in Abbotts team cringe every time Abbott opens his cake hole. It is becoming more obvious as each day passes, Australia has been hijacked by the Monty Python show.

    Conservatives that defend this shower of fools are desperate. The people that really run this party in the board rooms of Sydney, Melbourne, and Perth. Will soon get shot of him.

  94. Fed up
    FEBRUARY 12, 2014 @ 10:00 AM
    “That is not examples of hatred. It is examples of what this government is about.”

    They are examples of the hypocrisy so glaringly exhibited by far too many on the left.

  95. Nobody answered the question.

    How many Australian companies shut down for three weeks at Christmas like Toyota does???

    The Toyota workers are fools. They saw, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Ford and Holden close down.

    Toyota workers were asked by management to shorten the Christmas shutdown to 10 days. A reasonable request and obviously a warning sign.

  96. “They are examples of the hypocrisy so glaringly exhibited by far too many on the left”

    What unmitigated horse shit. Go over to Menzies house if you want hatred. Go to the sight of the biggest right wing moron to come down the pike a one Iain Hall if you want hatred. You’re not Iain Hall are you John B ?

    What’s the B for in John B ? Wait I know, John Boy Bwaaaaahahaha.

  97. “The Toyota workers are fools. They saw, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Ford and Holden close down.”

    You’re good. Says the blogs brains trust. Like I said go away you silly fool.

  98. http://www.afr.com/p/national/union_conditions_behind_toyota_exit_ZEytth3H2gVKnESNIooPWI

    Toyota told the federal government in December that the key impediment to the company staying in Australia was the workplace conditions at its Melbourne plant, the government claims…

    Treasurer Joe Hockey met Toyota Australia president Max Yasuda on December 3. Sources familiar with the meeting said that Mr Hockey asked Mr Yasuda whether Toyota would also leave if Holden departed.

    Mr Yasuda said he could convince Toyota headquarters in Tokyo to stay in Australia as long as it could pare back the conditions which the company contended were hampering productivity. These included a lengthy shutdown period over Christmas, 10 days’ paid leave for union delegates and blood-donor leave the company felt was being abused.

    “He said he needed something to take back to Tokyo,” a source said

  99. I think we should nominate Neil for the Nobel for economics. His insight into the causes of industry failures cannot be faulted. So Toyota closed up shop because of a holiday period. Out fucking standing, the man is a legend.

    So that’s why Germany lost the war, those bastards wouldn’t work over Weihnachten.

  100. ” blood-donor leave the company felt was being abused.”

    Jesus wept, out fucking standing. Toyota went bust because the workers were dropping like flies from lack of blood. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

  101. Why should auto workers get paid more than nurses?? Why should auto workers get paid much more than the component workers??

    The Unions got so many benefits for its members that they now have lost their jobs.

  102. “The Unions got so many benefits for its members that they now have lost their jobs.”

    Are you well? What the fuck has nurses or component workers got to do with the price of eggs? I don’t like the fact politicians get over 300 grand a year for what amounts to doing nothing. Perhaps you disagree. I don’t like the fact that glorified truck drivers get paid a kings ransom for flying aeroplanes. I don’t like the fact that the medical fraternity in this country are fleecing patients out of millions of dollars. The fact is they all get over paid because they can. You can’t just get in a Jumbo and fly it pilots know this and screw the airlines for what they can get. That is the reality.

    The auto union does not dream up ways of sending companies broke. They know how much Toyota is making and they want their share of it. Simple. They only have so much leverage because their members are in most cases semi skilled.

    When they negotiate for their members they don’t do comparisons with nurses, they would say like I would, Nurses are not paid enough.

    Wages and conditions have got five fifths of Fanny Adams to do with Toyota pulling out, if their share holders are squawking about the profit margin fine, but don’t blame the workers.

    In the States people in small industry work for what amounts to slave labor conditions, and still companies pull out to find cheaper Labor in shit holes like Mexico, Rumania, and other places with a population of uneducated Navvies.

  103. “What the fuck has nurses or component workers got to do with the price of eggs?

    Because component workers are doing similar work to the auto workers.

    Fact is the Union got so may benefits Toyota cannot afford to make cars here.

    Apparently they would stay if the auto workers got the same salary as the component workers.

    Apparently auto workers get two years redundancy pay. I have never heard of anything like that. No wonder it is soo expensive to make a car in Australia.

    Wages and condition have everything to do with why the auto industry is leaving. Same goes for fridges, TV’s, washing machines and everything else we used to make here.

  104. So, Neil and John B, are you both fully paid up members of the nazi party ? and when do you plan on opening up the gas chambers ? will we all be dragged screaming from our beds late at night ? Are gina’s bulldozers fueled up and ready to dig mass graves ? Back to the future with Adolph Abbott ! The war has just begun and you too Losers are on the wrong side !

  105. Neil, I believe it might be many Australian people who are realizing they have been conned. I am not sure, you will be one that ever wakes up.

    An idiot is now on, wanting to move the new intermobile transport depot. Wants to move it to Badgery Creek, near the new proposed airport. How many years before the such move being used.

  106. If anyone takes a trip past that transport depot, they will realize much of the work is already in progress. Just anther of Labors achievement they want to dismantle, regardless of cost.

  107. Neil,. Because they appear to be bloody productive. Yes, most rises have occurred because of rises in productivity. Also, they have the skills to do the job. What skills do you have

    Neil. Could you work those production lines.

    I suspect not.

  108. At the risk of encouraging simpleton, JohnB, by answering his inane questions I must say he is really dense if he truly believes Toyota is the only industry, in Australia, which closes for three weeks over Christmas. Most of them do as they use the shut down period as a chance to do maintenance of the machinery, boilers etc.

    All the road building works of bypasses & upgrades along the Pacific Highway were halted for this period. The local sugar mill was closed. The population of our small coastal town was quadrupled by holiday makers for the full seven/eight weeks of the NSW/Qld school holidays. Some would have worked at factories which closed for the three weeks over Christmas/New Year. Yakult was impossible to get for a few weeks at this time. Need I go on……….

  109. Neil

    And i blame the ALP, Unions and human greed for losing our car industry.

    If you are blaming “human greed” and not including big business, neo-conservatives and the finance sector in general – you really haven’t been paying attention.

    Also, mistaking criticism for hate is rather troubling – maybe you should see someone about that.

  110. Neil, it might surprise you, but workers and unions have much to gain by making the boss’s business stronger. It is just that they believe, they should have their fair share of the3 profit. In fact, it is in the workers favor, to grow those profits.\\

    One only has to look, at the voluntary cuts workers made during the GFC. It was one of the reasons we came through it so well,

    Same goes for the productivity rises that occurred under Hawke’s workers accord.

  111. Don’t mind criticism but what would you call this

    So, Neil and John B, are you both fully paid up members of the nazi party ? and when do you plan on opening up the gas chambers ? will we all be dragged screaming from our beds late at night ? Are gina’s bulldozers fueled up and ready to dig mass graves ? Back to the future with Adolph Abbott

  112. Dunno where NoS find his er ‘facts’, but even the Australian has printed Toyota’s reasons for withdrawing from doing business in Australia. They clearly and categorically state their reason have nothing to do with unions or employee conditions.

    But in a statement today, Toyota Australia said it “denies the allegations” contained in the AFR report.

    “Toyota Australia has never blamed the union for its decision to close its manufacturing operations by the end of 2017, neither publicly or in private discussions with any stakeholders,” the statement said.

    “As stated at the time of the announcement, there is no single reason that led to this decision.

    “The market and economic factors contributing to the decision include the unfavourable Australian dollar that makes exports unviable, high costs of manufacturing and low economies of scale for our vehicle production and local supplier base.

    “Together with one of the most open and fragmented automotive markets in the world and increased competitiveness due to current and future free trade agreements, it is not viable to continue building cars in Australia.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/toyota-says-it-never-blamed-the-unions-for-plant-closure/story-fn59noo3-1226824530344

  113. Steven Subhash James
    “FEBRUARY 12, 2014 @ 12:41 PM
    So, Neil and John B, are you both fully paid up members of the nazi party ? and when do you plan on opening up the gas chambers ? will we all be dragged screaming from our beds late at night ? Are gina’s bulldozers fueled up and ready to dig mass graves ? Back to the future with Adolph Abbott ! The war has just begun and you too Losers are on the wrong side !”

    Oh shit, likening centre right commenters to Nazis, a sure way to win the argument!

  114. Fed up
    FEBRUARY 12, 2014 @ 1:16 PM
    Neil, it might surprise you, but workers and unions have much to gain by making the boss’s business stronger. It is just that they believe, they should have their fair share of the3 profit. In fact, it is in the workers favor, to grow those profits.\\

    I agree with you, Fed up.
    Workers should get their fair share of the profits.

    Now, tell us again, what happens if there aren’t any profits ?

  115. Well, if the workers did as they did during the GFC, working with employers, to ensure that there were not only profits, but the businesses also survived.

  116. So it has just been revealed Toyota did not blame the unions for closing its Australian operations. Which operations were making a huge profit. John Boy you are full of it.

    Hockey is now standing up in parliament spinning like a top..

  117. “So it has just been revealed Toyota did not blame the unions for closing its Australian operations.

    Then why are they leaving??

    Which operations were making a huge profit.

    Then why are they leaving??

  118. Julie Bishop is that excited she is playing the drums on the desk. It must cost us a fortune for hair spray. She is gyrating around like Pavlova and not a hair out of place.

  119. Is there something wrong with you Neil? They have said it is not because of the pay and conditions of its workers, confirmed in parliament this very day.

  120. The government has just put the gag on about the meeting between Hockey and Toyota. They are a mob of fucking lying toe rags.

  121. I know the answer. Union greed and human stupidity is why the auto industry left.

    Unions kept getting so many things for their members that making cars became unprofitable. Since they were being subsidised by the taxpayer Toyota management was also gorging themselves on taxpayers money.

  122. Neil

    Are you trying to claim that Toyota is deliberately lying to spare the sensitivities of their workers?

    Well, if you believe that, there’s this amaaaaazing rock in the middle of the Australian desert, the locals are bored with just sitting around it all day and have decided to put it on the market… if you are interested I can help with a good word or two just for you.

  123. “Since they were being subsidised by the taxpayer Toyota management was also gorging themselves on taxpayers money.”

    I do believe I see a spark of light.

  124. Are you trying to claim that Toyota is deliberately lying to spare the sensitivities of their workers?”

    Most probably. It was Toyota management who bent over and gave in to the Union demands.

    Wouldn’t surprise me if Toyota management was also gorging themselves on the taxpayers subsidies.

    But i notice Toyota was very careful with its wording.

    And what Toyota management from Japan said may be different to what Toyota management in Australia is saying.

    Cowards trying to save themselves is what they are.

  125. I read that the Union refused Toyota’s request to put to a vote, changes in award conditions.

    Under Toyota’s plan, a revised package would be voted on by the factory staff, obviously there’d be changes relating to productivity and conditions.

    The union prevented the workers voting on this, and Toyota has now pulled out.

    Now, I am against exploitation of workers and bad management blaming problems on workers, but clearly there’s a productivity/costs problem.

    As a former union member, I was able to vote on accepting or rejecting changed award/EBA conditions proposed by my employer of the time.

    Why did the Union prevent Toyota workers voting on it, which we now see has likely resulted in them closing down manufacturing?

    Toyota is not going to “blame” the union, that would just guarantee unrest until 2017.

    It’s common sense, but of course common sense has no place on the pages controlled by ALP apologists.

  126. “It’s common sense, but of course common sense has no place on the pages controlled by ALP apologists.”

    You make bullshit a science.

  127. Toyota is not going to “blame” the union, that would just guarantee unrest until 2017.

    How? You are claiming a huge profitable multinational company is intimidated by a workers union. Evidence please and stop with the personal insults, doesn’t add to your credibility.

  128. Where governments are more interested in creating jobs, and generating government revenue. Yes, even if they have to make some investment first.

    Maybe they do not appreciate governments lying about what they say, and using them as political footballs.

  129. “Toyota is not going to “blame” the union, that would just guarantee unrest until 2017.”

    Yes and it would also admitting they (management) were responsible for the demise of Toyota and the workers jobs.

    It was management that did nothing about the too high salaries of the auto workers most probably because they themselves were using taxpayers money to bolster their own wages.

    Would be interesting to see what Toyota management were getting. Most probably double what similar people were getting.

  130. “Would be interesting to see what Toyota management were getting. Most probably double what similar people were getting.”

    Ah that light is getting a little brighter.

    The Toyota management and I don’t know for sure, but, willing to bet would, have got most of the subsidy from the government. You’ll find this is where the money was going and not to the shop floor.

    The salary packages and perks would be obscene.

    Alan Joyce of Qantas was getting a salary package that nearly matched the companies profit. This is total madness. The rest of the hangers on in management were getting salary packages in the millions which EXCEEDED the profit of the company.

    I would put my bollocks on a chopping block if anyone can prove to me there problems are caused by their baggage handlers or other service staff.

    I repeat Toyota is not going away because of the assembly workers to blame them is crazy.

  131. Neil,

    Might I suggest you research the German auto industry? Then come back and tell us it’s all the unions’ fault and high wages… Why are they so profitable with average wages 50% higher than here and double what the struggling US industry is paying?

    THINK, just for a change!

  132. The car firms do not blame workers, unions, alleged carbon tax MRRT and the tighening up of the FBT when it comes to cars,

    That is a big problem for Abbott and Hockey,

    Seems they have not identified the correct causes. Therefore, their solutions will not work.

    In fact, removing CEF, NBNCo, MRRT, and asking for proof that they are using the cars for work, will add to the real problem this government is up against. Yes, the problem of falling revenues.

    In fact, not assisting the car industry, will lead to further outlays and reduced revenues for them.

  133. “Why are they so profitable with average wages 50% higher than here and double what the struggling US industry is paying?”

    Dunno. You tell me. Fact is manufacturing has been leaving for the last thirty years and the all give the identical reason. Cost of manufacture is too high in Australia.

    And i am not sure if i trust your figures. Did they take into account in your table of hourly rates (which i saw) on-costs?? That is an extra 30% in Australia. By on-costs i mean leave loading (17.5), long service leave, superannuation (minimum 9%), redundancy etc.

    What to do?? Fact is nobody wants to make anything here anymore.

  134. It does tend to point to incompetent management and processes Neil. Staff representation in decision making is legislated in Germany – resulting in good profitability and high wages. Where there is an adversarial system (US, Aus), companies are struggling. Does that speak to you at all?

  135. Yep, German auto workers building $100,000 Mercedes exported around the world are paid more than Australian auto workers building $40,000 Commodores. How on earth can they afford it?
    Oh and I love how Fed Up, at 9:04 am explains how we live in a connected global world in which we have to compete and in the next breath demands that we don’t have to compete (by having huge subsidies). Now, don’t get me wrong, I would rather the government was able to keep Holden, Ford and Toyota still manufacturing here. And despite the accusatory howls from the small minded fools, Neil of Sydney is not wallowing in the loss of jobs, he’s explaining reality to ignorant nutters who have only the most vague concept of basic economics.

  136. “he’s explaining reality to ignorant nutters who have only the most vague concept of basic economics.”

    Last week I couldn’t spell economist, and now I are one.

  137. It’s interesting to watch a developing theme in the Abbottocracy’s rhetoric. We’re starting to see reference to baad management, fallen souls who’ve been seduced by the devil’s lure & entered into unholy alliances with much baaadder unions.
    But despair not, once St Tony & his followers have rid the land of the union scourge redemption awaits those in management who renounce their transgressions & repent at the altar of Liberal Bastardry.

  138. Lol, had a good guffaw over JohnB’s “…he’s explaining reality to ignorant nutters who have only the most vague concept of basic economics.”

    This is a person, who along with JohnB, goes on and on about government debt without the slightest clue on government fiscal debt and deficits, and only does so for the sole reason to bash Labor, not out of any perspicuous knowledge on economics. Even that is not original as the person only took up that line of attack when Howard took up that tactic to divert attention away from his massive broken promises on balance of trade, which he had campaigned heavily on with a debt truck leading up to the 1996 election, and which he then went on to see record after record trade deficit.

  139. “…it can’t be easy, when bullshit is all you have.”

    And not even new bullshit, just the same crap over and over.

  140. “It does tend to point to incompetent management and processes Neil. Staff representation in decision making is legislated in Germany –”

    Productivity as well as hourly pay rates also needs to be looked at.

    Maybe Toyota and Holden workers spend most of their time picking their nose while German workers work much harder.

    How many cars/hour do the Germans make??

  141. Who shares Tony’s shiny future. That losing one’s job leads to better things.
    Yes, Newcastle is a nice place to live today. It could tree decades at least to reach this.

    …….The Prime Minister says Toyota’s manufacturing workers will graduate ”from good jobs to better jobs”. If it sounds fantastic, it probably is.
    Ordinarily, ”good jobs” tend not to be those listed for extinction, but that might be nit-picking.
    In Tony Abbott’s defence, there are many precedents when low-skilled jobs, for example, are automated and workers can be retrained for cleaner and more interesting work.
    Advertisement
    History tends to focus on the successes – at the expense of the ruinous period of transition experienced by many people. It also glosses over those who never make it to the promised land – the ones who fall out of the labour market grid altogether.
    A more pessimistic predictor suggests a third of displaced workers tend to find new jobs quickly, another third might take substantially longer, and the rest simply never work again.
    Anyway, the problem for the government in selling this shiny new future is that so far at least, it has shown no notion of how it will come about. Apart from glib statements about the opportunities of modernisation, Abbott has offered workers no coherent policy respons

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/toyota-catches-canberra-napping-20140212-32i5f.html#ixzz2t9BUR5MG

    It is said Toyota needed to find $3800 per car to break even., Any wages changes would deduct I believe $147. Nowhere near enough to count.

  142. Yes, and worker productivity is still growing, especially in the car industry. That is why they are so well paid, as you have pointed out.

    Wages cost 1bout 166% of building a car. Toyota needed $3800. Changes to wages and conditions would have raised $147 per annum at the most.

    No wages are of little consequences.
    The problems are high dollar and other costs, along with trade deals being signed.

    . Truth is, they can do better saving by moving somewhere else.. They are not obliged to stay here. There has obliged to their shareholder to make the best profits they can.

    They offered the government a deal, that was in the interest of this country, and would have kept the jobs, and also ongoing revenue.,

    The government refused. Refused because of ideology. It would be hard to find economic grounds to do so.

    It appears that Qantas played under Howard and Reith,

    They will take on the unions, for government backing.

    Government members out doing the soft sell this morning. At this time, Qantas credit rating is junk.

    Yes, they are talking about Qantas needing to convince the government with new business plans. Code. Cut wages and conditions.

  143. When one wants to underst5and what Abbott’s next move will be, just go back to the Howard government’s actions. He is incapable3 of any original thought or action his=mself.

    The biggest danger is that the economic environment is entirely different today6. The problem needs different solutions.

    When it comes to Abbott and his merry men, one does not need economics, but an understanding of where his ideology is coming from.

    Heard Hockey described this morning,of having the skills, as treasurer to walk the narrow path, to make the right decisions for this time. Do not know how anyone could believe that.

    Ideologists and fundamental fanatics are always a danger to society and those around them.

  144. I notice now, the government is attacking the companies. Companies do not have any obligation to stay. They are here to make money, not another.

    We heard so much from this government, when this government was in Opposition, that any taxes on the mining industry would send them off shore. They obviously did not believe the mining companies had any obligations to stay, to worry an=bout the jobs that would be lost, if they went off shore.

    The truth is, national borders mean little today. We live and operate in a global world. No country can be isolated.

    Money, industry and workers move about the globe at will.

    No industry owes this country jobs or a living.

    That is the role of government. Yes, to create the environment that encourages them to stay.

    When it comes to making cars, one does as all other countries does, or they wave goodbye to the industry. That is the choice the government has made. Has made because of their extreme beliefs. I think it could be called mutual obligation, one of the phrases this government love.

    They need to think carefully before they sign any more trade agreements.

  145. Low wages and conditions in any country does not equate to a strong economy. If you disagree, please give me an example.

  146. China and I also believe Indonesia and India, are seen as becoming economic giants, not because of low wages, but of their rapidly growing middle classes.

  147. In the coming Asian century, it is that growing middle class that we hoped would be a future markets. That dream DISAPPEARING FAST.

  148. Neil, I am curious. Do you believe you could work on those lines. Have you ever done any manual work, or done anything with your hands?

    Not that I expect an answer. Just asking anyway.

    Worker productivity has as much to do with employer management, as it deals with the efforts of the workers.

  149. For the last few years, we have seen Abbott out every day, yes every day, transversing the nation, popping up in some workplace.

    Yes, pretending to work on production lines among other things, Yes, saying he is the workers’ friend.

    How does that fit in with his d behavior since the 18/9/2013. Yes, since becoming PM.

    He has attacked wages and unions just as obsessively, as he was visiting workplaces as PM.

    As for Qantas, all the government needs to do, is cut it loose, Leave it to stand

    It looks like all that can be sold off, will be. He intends to sell off the state government assets as well.

    This is what Hockey is telling the Yanks. A 129 billion worth, I believe. Medibank is only expecting to raise 4 billion. That leaves a lot of others.

  150. For those who do not know the history of Peta Credlin, the power without glory Chief of Staff, here tis Peta Credlin
    Paul Barry Monday, 25 July 2011
    Abrupt and demanding, this powerbroker directs the Liberal Party.

    Tony Abbott’s Chief of Staff

    Born in: Wycheproof, Victoria

    Home Town: Canberra

    She’s a relative unknown, but Peta Credlin has been cracking the whip in the Liberal Party for three successive leaders. And while she doesn’t make the Top 10, she’s certainly one to watch.

    A Catholic, like Tony Abbott whose office she runs, Credlin has been chief-of-staff or senior adviser to the past three Liberal leaders, and you’d better believe she has got what it takes.

    “She is effective, strong, articulate, engaged, presentable, smart and hard-working,” says a senior NSW Liberal.

    “She’s tough, she’s a player, she makes demands, she gives directions, she bawls people out,” says a respected Victorian Liberal powerbroker, who ranks her as the Libs’ second most-powerful player, above Nick Minchin, Christopher Pyne and the other two Liberals in The Power Index Top 10.

    We have left Credlin off our Political Fixers, despite the fact she’s important and powerful enough to be near the top, but only because she doesn’t quite fit our definition.

    The chances are you’ve never heard Credlin’s name before, but if you’re mad enough to watch parliamentary question time, you may have seen her in the advisers’ box. She’s tall and 40-ish, with a long face and big hair.

    A decade ago, she was using her legal skills as a junior adviser to Communications Minister Richard Alston. Then, after a spell with Racing Victoria, she was pulled into Helen Coonan’s office in 2005 to manage two issues that were important to the Howard government: the sale of Telstra and changes to the media-ownership laws.

    Abrupt and demanding, she annoyed some people with her style, which showed little care for others’ egos and even less tolerance of fools. Yet she was given the task of managing difficult negotiations with National and Liberal backbenchers on media law changes and handled the job well.

    Even back then, Credlin was plugged in at the highest levels of the Liberal Party via her husband, Brian Loughnane, who had been federal director since 2003, so she knew John Howard and Peter Costello socially. She was also well connected to the party machine. And she had talent to boot.

    After the 2007 election, Credlin was parachuted into new leader Brendan Nelson’s office. Then, when he was dumped, she moved in with Turnbull — whom she had previously disparaged to colleagues — as chief-of-staff. And when Turnbull was forced out, she worked with Tony Abbott. In her spare time she picked up a legal practising certificate and won the ACT Law Society Prize.

    Abbott takes Credlin with him whenever he travels around Australia — which is unusual for Liberal leaders and chiefs-of-staff — so she gets to meet everyone in the party. “That gives her power,” says a prominent NSW Liberal. “She is the conduit to Abbott. Even the shadow cabinet talk to her.”

    Three leaders in a row suggest that either Credlin’s a cracker at her job or that hubby Loughnane has huge influence. But we’re pretty sure it’s the former. She’ll shoot up the Political Fixers list if the Liberals win power. Even in the unlikely event that Malcolm Turnbull or Joe Hockey take the helm, the odds are that Peta Credlin will be in the front seat.

    Peta Credlin
    Paul Barry Monday, 25 July 2011
    Abrupt and demanding, this powerbroker directs the Liberal Party.

    Tony Abbott’s Chief of Staff

    Born in: Wycheproof, Victoria

    Home Town: Canberra

    She’s a relative unknown, but Peta Credlin has been cracking the whip in the Liberal Party for three successive leaders. And while she doesn’t make the Top 10, she’s certainly one to watch.

    A Catholic, like Tony Abbott whose office she runs, Credlin has been chief-of-staff or senior adviser to the past three Liberal leaders, and you’d better believe she has got what it takes.

    “She is effective, strong, articulate, engaged, presentable, smart and hard-working,” says a senior NSW Liberal.

    “She’s tough, she’s a player, she makes demands, she gives directions, she bawls people out,” says a respected Victorian Liberal powerbroker, who ranks her as the Libs’ second most-powerful player, above Nick Minchin, Christopher Pyne and the other two Liberals in The Power Index Top 10.

    We have left Credlin off our Political Fixers, despite the fact she’s important and powerful enough to be near the top, but only because she doesn’t quite fit our definition.

    The chances are you’ve never heard Credlin’s name before, but if you’re mad enough to watch parliamentary question time, you may have seen her in the advisers’ box. She’s tall and 40-ish, with a long face and big hair.

    A decade ago, she was using her legal skills as a junior adviser to Communications Minister Richard Alston. Then, after a spell with Racing Victoria, she was pulled into Helen Coonan’s office in 2005 to manage two issues that were important to the Howard government: the sale of Telstra and changes to the media-ownership laws.

    Abrupt and demanding, she annoyed some people with her style, which showed little care for others’ egos and even less tolerance of fools. Yet she was given the task of managing difficult negotiations with National and Liberal backbenchers on media law changes and handled the job well.

    Even back then, Credlin was plugged in at the highest levels of the Liberal Party via her husband, Brian Loughnane, who had been federal director since 2003, so she knew John Howard and Peter Costello socially. She was also well connected to the party machine. And she had talent to boot.

    After the 2007 election, Credlin was parachuted into new leader Brendan Nelson’s office. Then, when he was dumped, she moved in with Turnbull — whom she had previously disparaged to colleagues — as chief-of-staff. And when Turnbull was forced out, she worked with Tony Abbott. In her spare time she picked up a legal practising certificate and won the ACT Law Society Prize.

    Abbott takes Credlin with him whenever he travels around Australia — which is unusual for Liberal leaders and chiefs-of-staff — so she gets to meet everyone in the party. “That gives her power,” says a prominent NSW Liberal. “She is the conduit to Abbott. Even the shadow cabinet talk to her.”

    Three leaders in a row suggest that either Credlin’s a cracker at her job or that hubby Loughnane has huge influence. But we’re pretty sure it’s the former. She’ll shoot up the Political Fixers list if the Liberals win power. Even in the unlikely event that Malcolm Turnbull or Joe Hockey take the helm, the odds are that Peta Credlin will be in the front seat.

  151. “They offered the government a deal, that was in the interest of this country, and would have kept the jobs, and also ongoing revenue.,

    The government refused. Refused because of ideology

    Really?? The only deal i am aware of is this

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/toyota-waits-on-federal-court-ruling-over-union-pay-deal-20131211-2z6ia.html

    Toyota, the last car manufacturer standing in Australia, will find out at lunchtime on Thursday if it will be given the chance to put a new pay deal to its 2500-strong Altona workforce – something the car maker has argued is crucial to it staying in the country.

    Federal Court Justice Mordy Bromberg will hand down his ruling in a case between Toyota workers and the car maker’s management, over whether the company can put to a vote a new enterprise deal that would cut costs at the Altona plant by $17 million.”

    I think we can see that subsidies do not work. Toyota was given taxpayers money to help them and all management used it for was to gives themselves and the workers more benefits.

  152. Listening to some government members this morning, they need to be careful with the car industry does not pull out now, not 2017.

    2017 takes in the money they have already received. They are keeping their part of the bargain. This government made the decision not to extend the present arrangements. In fact, they said they were withdrawing some of what was agreed to.

    The truth is, the industry has called the government’s bluff. Not interested in playing Abbott’s games.

    I am sure, if they agreed that the unions and workers were to blame, they would have been assisted. As long as they took on the workers,

  153. Job figures due out soon.

    Abbott making statement to house in about five minutes, no one knows what it is about., Will be followed by one from Shorten., Still not in the house.

  154. Neil, did you not read how much would have been saved if they own that ruling. Would not have made any difference. You cannot be this thick.

  155. 2017 takes in the money they have already received. They are keeping their part of the bargain.”

    Nope. Wrong as usual

    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2012/s3461502.htm

    JULIA GILLARD: The good news is that the future of General Motors is now secure in this country for the next decade.

    Gillard/Holden said they would be making cars until 2022.

    I think what happened is that when Ford announced they were going it made it impossible for Holden to stay. So somebody lied. Either Gillard or Holden

  156. Pyne is changing the rules, as to who can move the suspension of standing orders., One would not mind it so much, if it was not this government, while in opposition abuse the rules of the house every day.,

    Only ministers wil be allowed to do so.

    http://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/05%20About%20Parliament/53%20HoR/532%20PPP/StandingOrders/Chapter6.ashx

    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/chamber/noticer/20140213_RNP017/toc_pdf/RNP017.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf#search=%22chamber/noticer/20140213_RNP017/0000%22

  157. It appears that Qantas has already sacked workers. Problem with Qantas, is that jobs are being moved offshore. How does that help the Australian job market?

    Maybe Neil can explain.

  158. “Neil, did you not read how much would have been saved if they own that ruling. Would not have made any difference. You cannot be this thick.

    Sorry FU. You don’t get it do you. It was obvious that Toyota management wanted a change in the workers attitude instead of take, take, take all the time. Maybe the savings were small but it is a start.

    Toyota workers were not prepared to change.

  159. Neil, with free trade agreements, the options have changed. Wages are only a small part of the cost of producing a car. Get it. Your figures do not add up.. You are reading into things, reasons that do not exist.

    Last year, Swan and Gillard announced that their fiscal consolidation had to be wound back, Yes, that government made many cuts to expenditure and PS.

    That meant the movement towards surplus had to cease. This was because the economy then and now, cannot stand any more restraints. In fact, it might mean stimulus, not curtailment. To continue down the path would lead to unemployment, along with business failures.

    This government ignored what was said. Believed their own spin, that there was fat to be found because the ignored the fiscal consolidation that had occurred over a number of years.

    Since they took over power, they have cut everything in sight. Yes, their policies will lead to a downfall in the economy. They refuse to listen.,

    Cutting wages will only lead to further contraction of the economy. Especially the wages of low income earners. Lower wages means less money to spend.

    Neil, you would be a better placed, to focus on where Abbott’s new, good paying jobs are going to come from.

  160. FU isn’t it about time you off loaded Neil. He keeps talking in circles that much he is going to end up in his own orifice. He is talking absolute unmitigated nonsense about Toyota, and his comments should now be given the contempt they deserve.

    I see unemployment is at 6% and is rising. I have heard rumours in the west from my own local meetings they are beseeching the Senate to stop supply and try and bring on another election before this mob ruins Australia.

  161. “Neil, you would be a better placed, to focus on where Abbott’s new, good paying jobs are going to come from.”

    This is delusional. There will be a recession soon, if wiser don’t prevail in this government.

  162. A wage component of producing a Holden is 16%

    Toyota needed to find $3800 per car, to continue in this country.,

    The maxim saving on wages, even if the workers agreed to evert=ything Toyota wanted, would raise $147 per car.

    That leaves $3653 to be found.

  163. What Toyota management in Japan wanted was a change in attitude

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/former_toyota_boss_says_unions_must_PLGCy7rVs2qNNtDNUNJLzL.

    The former head of Toyota Australia and one of its top supplier executives say combative industrial relations helped trigger the company’s decision to stop making cars.

    John Conomos, who worked at Toyota in senior roles for almost 30 years including as executive chairman, said he could understand the company’s frustration at union resistance to changing workplace entitlements and practices…

    “The old fashioned ideas of labour unions simply must change,” he said…

    Gary Stewart, the former general manager of a Toyota “keiretsu” supplier, Aisin Australia, said the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union gave the company a “two-fingered salute” when it blocked workplace changes in court rather than negotiate.

    It was the last straw for the company and gave ammunition to “hawks” at Toyota who supported the pull-out in a finely balanced decision, he said.

    “If it is not the only cause it is certainly at the top of the file.”My opinion is that if Toyota had broken through its IR issues – then most probably Toyota would have tried to continue in Australia”

  164. Could not care what Neil says. He knows that. It concerns me, the government is still out this morning pushing that line.

    Maybe others will take notice.

  165. When Toyota wrote a letter yesterday, saying what Hockey was saying is not true, that would be enough.

    Yes, they said it has nothing to do with the worker or wages.

    Said it had plenty to do with the latest Free Trade deal wit South Korea.

    Then what would the company know.

  166. “It concerns me, the government is still out this morning pushing that line.”

    This whole government concerns me period.

    I see Qantas is after money now. Not bad when you consider what Joyce and the other leeches have been taking out of it in salaries.

  167. “Said it had plenty to do with the latest Free Trade deal wit South Korea.

    Then what would the company know.”

    Exactly, and that is what it is all about.

  168. When Toyota wrote a letter yesterday, saying what Hockey was saying is not true, that would be enough.”

    That is all the evidence i need that management was telling lies. You believed them. You are attracted to falsehood.

    As if management are going to admit that they were the ones who destroyed the company by giving in to Union demands.

    Talk about being deluded.

  169. I assume the Korea-Australia modelling had some negative things to say, because the DFAT fact sheet identifies what they call sensitive sectors which may face increased competition from Korean imports. Sectors identified are motor vehicles, automotive parts, steel products and textiles, clothing and footwear. But if the modelling is not released publicly how can Australians possibly assess what these arrangements actually mean for them and the industries they work in? How can the modelling be assessed to ensure it was actually measuring the right things?

    I have an article from an automotive magazine, which dates back to December last year (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/south_korea_free_trade_deal_could_crush_car_industry_80648_20131205). It is two pages long and entitled ‘South Korea free trade deal could crush car industry: FTA will mean cheaper cars, but will wipe out Australian car industry.’ It says:

    The proposed Free Trade Agreement with South Korea will lead to cheaper cars—but it will almost certainly crush what’s left of the Australian auto manufacturing industry, experts have warned…..

    http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=16019

  170. This is what GMH and Toyota is saying.

    Hockey should be referred to the Privileges Committee for misleading the house. Along with Mr. Abbott and his lies yesterday.

    Will not happen. under this government.

  171. Speaker of the lower house, telling government members he hopes he is not wasting the labor speaker’s time. Lovely to see some fairness from the chair,

  172. Federal government frontbencher Christopher Pyne has lambasted Labor for disrupting parliament with ‘undergraduate’ and ‘ungentlemanly’ behaviour.

    Labor repeatedly disrupted proceedings in the House of Representatives on Wednesday night, after the coalition earlier used its numbers to gag Opposition Leader Bill Shorten.

    Labor repeatedly called for a quorum as coalition members delivered their speeches in response to the address the governor-general delivered on the first day of the new parliament last year.

    ‘They were being rude not only to the members but also to the governor-general,’ Mr Pyne, the leader of government business in the lower house, told ABC radio on Thursday.

    Mr Pyne acknowledged that the coalition was a ‘robust’ opposition in the last parliament.

    ‘(But) we never descended into the undergraduate and bad-mannered and ungentlemanly behaviour that Labor descended into yesterday,’ he insisted.

    Mr Pyne holds the record as the most ejected federal politician and the last parliament was considered the most disrupted in Australian history.

    ‘Well, a hung parliament is a very unique beast in politics,’ he said in his defence, adding the last government was illegitimate because it was determined by rural independents in conservative seats.

    http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=949848

    Who holds the record for this type of behavior. I am sure it is Abbott by many, many miles.

    It seems to expecting a government to answer questions is disrupting parliament.

  173. Changing the subject. Just watched Shortens press conference. I may be a little premature rubbishing him. Big improvement.

  174. By the way, I believe Pyne holds the record for being thrown out of the house.

    Shorten is asking what Abbott intends to do about the unemployment figures. Refuses to lay blame. Says, it is about what happens from now on.

  175. Hockey on next. Bet the whine will be well anbd truly on show today. I expect we will only hear who he thinks where the fault lies.

  176. “‘(But) we never descended into the undergraduate and bad-mannered and ungentlemanly behaviour that Labor descended into yesterday,’ he insisted.”

    He must be joking, the then opposition was a rabble. Pyne is lying through his teeth. Any cursory look at tapes of the last parliament would clearly show they were bastards. They were worse than a mob of drunks at the football.

    I just hope this last excursion into conservative politics has finally woken the people up.

  177. Listening to Hockey, I think I am going to be quite ill.

    The journalists at the press conference if not, should be, drowning in dribble.

  178. Unemployment jumps to 6% for the first time in a Decade. The start of the rot, which of course Abbott will blame on Unions and use as an excuse to bring in WorkChoices, which will plunge productivity and kill this country.

  179. That comes on the back of some sectors of the mining industry announcing significant job layoffs, mainly providers and service entities to the mining sector.

    Abbott’s destruction of Australia well and truly in full swing as he and his government lies through their teeth day after day telling everyone how great things will be under them.

  180. This government is going to result in a lot of tears in this country. What a monumental fuck up it has been. As the tax base goes down it is going to get worse.

  181. “Unemployment jumps to 6% for the first time in a Decade

    As expected. Playing politics with peoples lives.

    I got this link from my visit to Catallaxy. It shows the Victorian unemployment rate which i guess would be similar to Australia as a whole

    Look at the rate in 1992,1992,1993, Above 10% for 30 months Nothing like it since the great depression. Yet Keating had an election in 1993 and won.

    That is all the evidence i need that Labor supporters have no principle and will always vote Labor no matter what damage they do to the country.

  182. Turns out the unemployment drop is doubly damning for this government as the market and commentators were at the worst expecting it to remain steady. Not only did it go up, it jumped significantly.

    Woeful Abbott, utterly woeful in destroying so many Australian workers’ lives with this only the start.

  183. “Woeful Abbott, utterly woeful in destroying so many Australian workers’ lives with this only the start.”

    Indeed. Social welfare will be next on the chopping block. This will have knock on ramifications as well.

  184. Woeful Abbott, utterly woeful in destroying so many Australian workers’ lives with this only the start.”

    And you wonder why i vote Coalition.

    From 1983-1996 it got below 6% for only a few months. It was above 10% for over TWO YEARS. Averaged 8%.

    But go on just play politics. ALP supporters have NO principle, beliefs other than Labor = good Coalition =bad

  185. phil @ 1:15 pm . That’s just on the increasing unemployment numbers and not factoring in the massive cuts Hockey has promised that will remove huge swags of money from the economy.

    The IMF has stated they are encouraged by the proposed cuts, giving Hockey a tick, but said that they must be accompanied by fiscal buffers, something this government is not doing and hasn’t a clue about. I guess they believe a fiscal buffer is giving as much money and subsidies to the very wealthy to ensure they can spend more in New York, Paris, London etc.

  186. “phil @ 1:15 pm . That’s just on the increasing unemployment numbers and not factoring in the massive cuts Hockey has promised that will remove huge swags of money from the economy.”

    Indeed. We are headed for a U.S. style economy. As you say more money for the rich. As you already know the gap has widened since Reagan and Howard and it is still widening.

    Listening to Hockey, he doesn’t have a clue. He is so far out of his depth with economics it sticks out like dogs nurries.

    The adults are now in charge and we are open for business.

    A bit like Chamberlain peace in our time.

    Wankers personified.

  187. Naphine has ensured the future of SPC with a Co investment agreement. Will Abbott take money off the state to get even?

    Took 22 million dollars.

  188. Wankers personified.”

    You must be looking in the mirror. Have a look at the Victorian unemployment rate

    12% unemployment in 1993. And Keating won the election with unemployment in double digits.

    Please don’t tell me ALP supporters care about Australia

  189. Jesus Neil your like a broken record. Keating is over a decade ago.

    We are talking about circa 2014.

    The Abbott government is going to bring Australia undone, and there is no amount of links, bullshit, opinion, statistics, or navel gazing, is going to change that fact.

    Not that you would be interested, I have been a lefty all my life, I have run my own business and employed people. When Bob Hawke was the P.M. unlike most I hated his guts and still do. His involvement in Pangea finished me with him. Look it up. And wait for his ugly mug to appear shortly when S.A. wants to try and foist Nuclear dumping on S.A.

    I UNLIKE YOU, WILL CALL IT IT AS I SEE IT.

  190. Unemployment was at 4.3% in 2007 and was at 5.8% and trending up at last years election.

    So have have gone from 400 and something thousand unemployed in 2007 to seven hundred and something thousand in 2013.

    And it is all Abbott fault??

  191. There is not a country in the world that doesn’t have unemployment, that is the nature of the beast of capitalism.

    Did I ever say it was all Abbotts fault?

    There is more to the mark of a good government than employment statistics.

    Abbott has broken many promises already and he is taking Australia down a path that he does NOT have a mandate for. He has left Australians in no doubt where he is headed.

    This government contrary to what you believe, lied its way in to power with a corrupt and compliant media. The biggest media owner in this country is on record as saying,

    ” I’ll decide who governs Australia ”

    Anyway it is all irrelevant, he Abbott will not be re-elected. He in my firm opinion will be ousted out by his own party. The Liberal party is not run from Canberra.

  192. Pyn3e once again trying to prevent questions. For the first ti,e. Bishop did not follow his direction,

    Abbott is only be asked what he has no plan to deal with unemployment, He has not been asked who is to blame.

  193. This government contrary to what you believe, lied its way in to power with a corrupt and compliant media.”

    No that was Julia Gillard who shook hands, verbally agreed, signed on the dotted line that she would introduce pokie reform that Andrew Wilkie wanted.

    When Wilkie gave Gillard his vote to form minority govt she reneged on the deal.

  194. According to Pyne, they had the right to act as they did, when in opposition, because the Gillard government was not legitimate.

    Abbott sounds like he is ready to cry.

    Wonder how many will be thrown out today. Wonder when the opposition walks.

  195. Neil, I must say, you are desperate. What Gillard did, has nothing to do with today. Most have forgotten she even existed.

    I am sure, Hockey is going to break down, crying.

  196. Neil it is obvious to even ” Blind Freddie” That the previous government was bombarded with right wing propaganda 24/7 especially from the electronic media.

    Before the last election my wife were on holidays on the Eastern Seaboard and we could not believe the propaganda from the commercial radio stations. It was outrageous. I have not heard anything like it in the sixty odd years I have been on this planet. It is bad enough in Perth with shock jocks but the east coast is in a league of its own.

    To say it does/did not influence people in their vote is abject bollocks. If that were the case the advertising industry would not exist.

    As far as the last government is concerned. If Rudd was not ousted from his job, all of this nonsense we are suffering now would not exist. Rudd (Yes don’t faint on me) would still be P.M. Any problems in the Labor cabinet real or imagined could have been sorted. Any problems the public were not privy to, and Rudd’s polling up and down was normal in the range of his tenure.

    Abbott is in government because of Gillard’s EGO yep you heard it right. I care less what my comrades say, she was the down fall. The later move by Rudd was in excusable and the idiots that installed him should hang there heads in shame.

    Contrary to the polls, I think Gillard would have still won.

    All the shit about Wilkie and deals with independents is bollocks.

  197. “The chair treatment of her, is just as disgraceful. Nothing changes with this MOB ”

    True. For the record I thought Gillard was the best thing since sliced bread. She was the victim of a thug, and a bully called Abbott. If Gillard had been my daughter or indeed sister, if I met him on the street I would have stuck one on him. She was intelligent, articulate, and most importantly honourable.

    The treatment of this women then/now is nothing short of disgraceful. It shows you the calibre of this man. He is a bully and a half wit, and this country had better get shot of him.

  198. You might like to research your “productivity” mantra (repeated mindlessly again) too Neil. Not sure specifically about the auto industry, but Labour productivity generally has been on the increase for decades, cf Capital (read management incompetence) productivity…

  199. Well, it seems we are now back to Latham. Why is FM Bishop so angry. In fact, I asked why the government side can hardly contain their rage.

  200. Finance minister coming to Sydney next weeks. According to Hockey, he is going to show them how to lead the world.

  201. “All the shit about Wilkie and deals with independents is bollocks.”

    No you talked about lying to get into govt and i gave you an example. Anyone with a brain knew that Gillard lied to Wilkie to get into power. But it is team ALP with you lot.

    “You might like to research your “productivity” mantra (repeated mindlessly again) too Neil.

    Cars made per hour is also a factor. How many hours/day do Toyota/Holden workers spend scratching their bum compared to German workers??

  202. Pyne is lying about his so called Independent Schools. The links he gave, are not talking about the same thing. Yes, now Gillard or :she: is back in the converstion.

    Why are they, the government, sounding so desperate.

  203. Neil, I believe it is not as easy as working how many cars a hour. Many of those lines actually consist of robots and automation.

    The one figure you insist on ignoring, but I will type again. The wage component to build a Holden amounts to 19%

    It is also true that labour productivity figures have been growing. Yes growing,

    Your comments make no sense, and if they did, are irrelevant.

    Seven kicked out today. Could be a record.

  204. The emphasis is on the fact. The PM approves all appointments. Will go further, they are all dependent on what Peta Credlin approves. Yes, the responsibility lies with the PM.

    Must be a matter of MPI in Senate.

    Senator Wong in full flight..

  205. Yes Fu, that’s the killer because this government has taken away revenue and increased spending mainly aimed towards the very wealthy. It will get around $4 billion for Medicare Private and some more revenue by selling off the Post Office, but nowhere near enough to met the fiscal buffers the IMF talks about.

    This is a government that is sending us to hell in a basket as fast as it can whilst lying all the way and shrouding itself in secrecy, a sure sign of a government with a lot of unsavory stuff and stuff ups to hide.

  206. How many hours/day do Toyota/Holden workers spend scratching their bum compared to German workers

    You’re making the inference, you substantiate it.

  207. Wonder if Neil realizes, in the high technology workplaces of robots and automation, requires very few workers.

    The ones that are needed to be highly skilled. Yes, the wage and conditions of these people really count little.

    Even out, where they take the ore out of the ground, many of the trucks and equipment have no drivers. Are run by people in offices many kilometers away, in nearby cities.

    Probably are standing around scratching their areas, as it is their knowledge the employer pays for, not physical effort.

  208. Neil, by the way, that could also be why they are highly paid.

    What are Abbott and Hockey going to do with the money Naphine saved his budget toady. Yes, he will no longer be paying out Newstart, and will continue to collect taxes from SPC.

  209. Fed Up: I agree, the dufus wants to sell of Medibank which is generating a profit and prop up Qantas which has been a drain on taxpayers money for years now.

  210. You really have to laugh at a right winger here who has been going on about Labor debt for so long my beard has gone from black to full grey in the meantime.

    So in light of this current government planning to massively increase our debt you would think this right winger would be up in arms and castigating them to hell. But of course he won’t and never will, only can hold one pea brained thing in his mind and that’s Labor = bad debt, Liberal always = good even when they bring in debt.

    So let’s look at what Hockey is proposing as he lies through his teeth about figures for the upcoming budget.

    There has been a marked deterioration in the fiscal outlook since the 2013 PEFO. Something he always objurgated the Labor government over when they mentioned it but is now using as an excuse himself. (Very much like the O’Farrell government who for its failures are using the exact same excuses almost word for word the previous Labor government used but were heavily lambasted by O’Farrell in opposition at the time). Another Liberal core trait.

    The underlying cash balance has deteriorated by $16.8 billion in the 2013‑14 year and by $68.1 billion over the forward estimates. As a result, a deficit of $47.0 billion is forecast in 2013‑14 and deficits totalling $123 billion are projected over the forward estimates.

    What is being shown is slower growth in real GDP, together with softer domestic prices and wages, have resulted in significantly lower nominal GDP, which has largely driven the reduction in tax receipts by more than $37 billion over the forward estimates. Hockey plans to reduce tax receipts and wages even further so driving us into deeper debt through a smaller GDP

    A softer economic outlook, coupled with changes in demand‑driven programmes and the revised assumption for projecting the unemployment rate, has increased total payments by $11.3 billion over the forward estimates. The Abbott government driving up unemployment is projected to increase our debt.

    The largest single element so far being the $8.8 billion grant to the Reserve Bank of Australia which is costing $300 million in interest payments each year. Money that could have supported Australian industries and created a lot of jobs, and thus lowered debt instead of increasing it.

    Now they are spending an extra 1.2 billion on Sovereign Borders. And who kept saying Labor’s solution was expensive. They are still paying for the offshore detention and Morrison’s large outlay for the original policy but are adding an extra 1.2 billion to it, all to stop a piddling amount of legal refugees who could contribute to our society and help lower our debt.

    Abbott has now committed an extra 8.2 billion for roads. What a waste when that could provide increased productivity and efficiencies via public transport and freight movement. Plus I’ll believe this one when it happens. Howard once promised 4 billion for roads and only delivered a fraction of it. Liberals, huge on rhetoric and grand promises, woeful on delivery and keeping promises.

    Donating $3 billion to polluters for a scheme that has been widely project to not work whilst at the same time removing $7 billion dollars in carbon credits. And this from a government that doesn’t believe in credible science but worse, tout themselves as credible money managers. Their DAP more than anything proves the falsehood of their fiscal responsibility and ability to manage finances.

    PPL. 22.2 billion. That from a government who rails on about debt and waste. Maybe their plan is to drive up unemployment and drastically cut wages for ordinary earners so they get nothing or less for PPL leaving lot more for the high wage earners and being able to not spend all of that 22.2 billion. That’s another of the Liberal’s tricks, well practiced by Howard who did it all the time, promise huge largess in handouts and benefits but make the conditions and requirements for getting it so onerous only limited percentage actually get the full amount with many getting nothing, but then still claiming how generous the Liberals are as a government, plus look at all this money we have that came from somewhere.

    Liberals deceivers to the core.

    And that’s just the start of their waste and mismanagement.

  211. A panellist on a current affairs program related an instance many would have missed. Toyota CEO, Akio Toyoda, was giving a luncheon address to a business group, (paraphrased):
    “Two years ago we were working so hard to create conditions whereby we could stay in this wonderful country and produce cars.
    “We had restructured the business and, despite acceding to recent union demands for even better wages and conditions, we were seeing a dim light flickering at the end of the tunnel.
    “We were honest with our employees and had explained the seriousness of the company’s economic plight.
    “They had assured us of their cooperation, so we determined to all pull together in a desperate attempt keep the company viable.
    “There was an air of camaraderie, a feeling of hope.
    “It was Australia Day that week and it fell on a Thursday. On the Friday thirty percent of our workforce didn’t turn up, thirty percent called in sick.
    “That’s when I finally realised we were stuffed.”

  212. Links or source Don please?

    Hockey has iterated that and said it’s what the CEO of Toyota told him in a private meeting, which looks like another Hockey lie in a long line of lies he’s currently trotting out, as the CEO refuted Hockey and said he has never stated wages or conditions were a factor in them pulling out.

    If that were the case why did they build a brand new engine manufacturing plant only 12 months ago under the current EBA. It was the advent of this government that everything in this country has gone to shit and there’s no getting around it, nor the fact things are projected to get much worse under them if they keep going the way they are as the worst government this country has ever had.

  213. Yep, Toyota wanted to stay but when management pleaded for help like only shutting down for 10 days rather than three weeks all management got in return was a two-fingered salute.

  214. There is a complete disconnect between the current Abbott administration and reality and his supporters hold to this same lack of reason – never let the truth get in the way of a preferred ideology.

    From the man himself:

    To a conservative, intuition is as important as reasoning, instinct as important as intellect. A way of life has far more demonstrative power to a conservative than a brilliant argument.

    Tony Abbott, Battlelines

    There is simply no point in trying to find a thread of communication with the likes of NoS or (evil)JohnB and their ilk. No amount of reason will change anything, coz, they’re just right, you know… so long as they keep repeating Labor = Bad; Liberals = Good, they will never consider the consequences of any decision made by the Abbottoir, least of all how these consequences impact people/society, because in the immortal words of Maggie Thatcher “there is no such things as society”.

    For a wonderful analysis of how the Abbottoir works the following essay makes for an edifying read:

    http://www.kingstribune.com/index.php/weekly-email/item/1967-abbott-and-the-oogedy-boogedys

  215. Haha the Rudd government the worst, recognised universally as such, now I know you’re a joke living in your little narrow conservative fantasy world, and then throw in an abuse against a woman, a great leader who constantly exposed Abbott for the simpleton bully he is.

    It hasn’t been Rudd or Gillard who have been heavily lampooned and derided overseas, that honour belongs to Abbott. Indeed both Rudd and Gillard for different reasons have been praised and acknowledged, but not Abbott, who in the shortest time ever has put most off side.

    Rudd and Gillard universally recognised as the worst, only by a lying Murdoch to get his gormless puppet into power, and you just as gormless mindlessly aped the false meme along.

    So tell us Don what makes the secretive and lying Abbott government who have broken promise after promise such a good government and a better one than either Rudd’s or Gillard’s.

  216. Pray, please tell us what stopped the boats,

    Pray, please tell us what happened, when Rudd put in place the scheme that Gillard was working on, Yes, there was also the no advantage test for those that arrive by boat. No one would come after the deal was signed with PNG.

    Yes, the PNG scheme and actions taken by Indonesia, making it harder to obtain visa to enter that country.

    Michael, can you remove that comment in relation to our first female PM. It is not warranted. The woman is now a private figure.

    I find it highly insulting and unnecessary.

    I suspect with the unemployment and failing economy, will concern more than stopping a few boats,

    Just as aside, the way our FM is treating the countries in this region, it would not surprise me to see a PNG retreat from the deal.

    Indonesia has demanded the presence of our ambassadors once again today. They are not happy with lifeboats. I though our honorable PM said they accepted his lies and apology.

    I do not believe the country can afford the cost. Cost in money, human cruelty and national; respect.

  217. THEY’VE STOPPED THE BOATS”

    Exactly

    All Labor did from 2007-2013 was build more and more concentration camps locking up record numbers of people. Children as well.

    For some strange reason no Labor supporter said anything. I wonder why??

    Now the Coalition is in out they come and want a an inquiry into Children in detention.

    Let us hope we can empty the concentration camps started by Labor and start taking refugees from UNHCR camps like we did under John Howard.

    Labor and its supporters destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of people we would have taken from UNHCR camps like the Karen people from Burma.

  218. Yes, very successful government achievements.

    Damage sustained by asylum seeker boat that landed on Rote island on 6 January after being turned back by Australian navy. Photograph: Indonesian navy report
    Australian naval ships entered Indonesian territorial waters often and with ease before the incursions sparked a diplomatic incident in January, according to a leaked Indonesian navy report, and an Indonesian navy spokesman reiterated that the 6 January incursion was a knowing and intentional breach.

    The dossier, signed off by a senior naval commander in eastern Indonesia, is an official report into the boat that landed on remote Rote island on 6 January after being turned back by the Australian navy. The report suggests three Australian naval vessels had entered Indonesian territorial waters and implies the incursion may have been intentional.

    “It was too easy for the Australian warships to enter Republic of Indonesia territorial waters without detection,” the report says.

    The same boat was the subject of allegations that asylum seekers on board had their hands burned by naval personnel. The report, parts of which have been seen by Guardian Australia, also contains further details on those allegations.

    The report says incursions were becoming more regular: “In anticipation of the entry of Australian warships (foreign war vessels) into Indonesian territorial waters, already occurring more and more often, it is necessary to increase Indonesian sovereignty in carrying out more patrols in and around the waters of Rote Ndao and Dana Island, so that foreign warships do not enter Indonesian territorial waters again,” it says.

    The document provides the first official documentation that an Australian naval incursion had occurred, and shows that Indonesian agencies were aware the incursions were continuing.

    Previously, Operation Sovereign Borders commander, Lieutenant General Angus Campbell, had admitted to unintentional territorial breaches on “several occasions” but would not say where or when they had taken place and how many vessels had been involved.

    Recent reports have indicated that about five incursions occurred between December and January.

    An asylum seeker aboard the boat, Yousif Ibrahim Fasher, who detailed allegations of the burned hands to Fairfax media, also said that the accompanying Australian naval vessels had turned their lights off during the last two nights of the journey on 4 and 5 January. His account also suggests that only two Australian naval vessels had accompanied the asylum seekers.

    On Friday, Indonesian navy spokesman Commodore Untung Suropati told Guardian Australia the 6 January incursion was a knowing and intentional breach by the Australian navy…………………..

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/14/australian-navy-incursion-into-indonesian-waters-intentional

  219. Others are free to make up their own minds, why the boats stopped, Still many more matters to be concerned about when it comes to this government than worrying about a few asylum seekers landing here.

  220. Could this be the coming face of this government?

  221. FU

    In 2007 all economic numbers were better. For some strange reason in 2007 people voted Labor. To claim credit for Coalition achievements is immoral.

    Your loyalty for Labor in bigger than your loyalty to Australia.

    Here is a link to the Victorian unemployment rate. Australia is similar

    Unemployment was at 12% in 1993. But Labor won the election in 1993.

    Therefore facts are irrelevant. You will vote Labor no matter what.

  222. Dunno

    It was still lower than under Labor.

    I has a 18% interest rate home loan in 1992, and then i lost my job.

  223. Oh what an utter liar Abbott is, the second greatest lying leader this country has had, with the biggest liar by far going to Howard who will never be surpassed.

    Here Abbott makes one of his grand meaningless statements during the election campaign, swallowed hook line and sinker by the right wingers and sadly others who voted for this prevaricator, but on being elected goes back on his word and changes what he said.

  224. What does one make of the FM Bishop. We have the ambassador called in. We have the Indonesian FM saying turning back the boats is not on. We have his accusations that we are breaking international procotols when it comes to asylum seekers. We have him saying,m he is taking the matter to Kerry, on behalf of the USA and other countries.

    Now one would think, listening to what the FM s release in an audio tape, meant that Indonesia was at the very least, is not happy with the actions of this country.

    Not according to FM Bishop. No,m we have a very good relationship with Indonesia. She talks to their FM each day. They get on well. Of course both would rather not have the problem with the boat people and other matters caused Mr. Snowden.

    Now the Snowden matters were not raised by their FM, as far as I know.

    Is FM still saying, their FM does not mean what he says in public. If so, why say it. Why bring our Asylum seekers, policy up with other countries.

    What does one make of Ms. Julie Bishop.

  225. What does one make of much of what Mr. Abetz has to say?

    ………………here is a group of workers whose conditions far exceed the perks at SPC Ardmona that were described by prime minister Tony Abbott as “extremely generous” and nominated as a reason the Commonwealth refused the company’s request for a co-investment grant.

    Perks available to this lucky group include a round the world first class fare for themselves and their spouse, with accommodation and expenses, every year, as well as allowances to buy any books and publications they want and generous airfares and travel allowances with a very broad definition of the “work” they need to be doing to qualify. And, guess what, they get to determine a lot of the guidelines and rules for the perks themselves.

    This group of workers is of course federal politicians. For the record, I think they earn and deserve their pay, and some of the allowances to which they are entitled. But billing the taxpayer for novels, history books, the Guinness Book of Records and biographies – including, in one case, six copies of former prime minister John Howard’s autobiography, Lazarus Rising – is surely a perk too far. And some of the reports MPs are required to write, detailing what they did on their study tours, don’t exactly suggest a hectic schedule.

    Workplace relations minister Eric Abetz ridiculed SPC’s “shiny tin” allowance as an example of “conditions” that were “regrettably over-generous”.

    With eyebr,

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/14/spc-shiny-tin-allowance-nothing-next-to-pollie-perks-ceo-bonuses

  226. What lies will Hockey meet this woman with next week?

    If this woman is correct, does that mean Mr. Hunt is out spreading lies this weekend?

    Will repealing the so called carbon tax will lead to a drop in unemployment?

    Christine Lagarde, the head of the International Monetary Fund, has urged the Abbott government not to abandon Australia’s role as what she calls “a pioneer” in the debate on climate change.
    The former finance minister of France said it would be a mistake to assign climate issues to “the backburner” because action to reduce carbon emissions could strengthen economic growth as well as protect the environment.
    Speaking in Paris before her first visit to Australia as IMF chief next week to attend a G20 meeting, Ms Lagarde said previous Australian governments had played an important role in international debates about climate change………

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/imf-chief-christine-lagarde-in-veiled-criticism-of-governments-climate-role-20140214-32r9u.html#ixzz2tLJGgRfk

  227. Of course Labor does not agree.

    ………….Labor environment spokesman Mark Butler said he was not surprised that “international communities [were] shocked by the Abbott government’s ignorance” about climate policy.

    “Much of the world, including countries such as China, America and Korea, are forging ahead with serious action on climate change while Tony Abbott is intent on sending Australia backwards,” Mr Butler said. “This policy retreat on such a critical issue is embarrassing Australia on the international stage.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/imf-chief-christine-lagarde-in-veiled-criticism-of-governments-climate-role-20140214-32r9u.html#ixzz2tLL6PFTW

  228. As we knoiw, Abbott generally has a version for all sides of the fence. Yes, he said he was nothing more than a weather vane,

    How does this statement of his sit with his present actions and comments?

    ……..’Any government which makes it harder to manufacture cars is making it harder for us to continue to be a first world economy because without cars, without steel, without aluminium, without cement, we don’t have these manufacturers in Australia, we are not really a sophisticated economy any more.”
    These thoughtful words, taken from the Liberal Party website, were uttered by none other than Tony Abbott after one of his fancy dress tours of the Ford production line at Geelong in 2011.
    My, how things change. In his few short months in government, Abbott has seen off the entire Australian car making industry, with the loss of who knows how many tens of thousands of jobs and an even chance of plunging Victoria and South Australia into at least a local recession. There goes his sophisticated economy. It’s a unique achievement, unmatched by any incoming government………….

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tony-abbott-opposition-leader-bites-tony-abbott-pm-20140214-32r1i.html#ixzz2tLMk7XrX
    \

  229. I’m a little bit perplexed that the right wingers who rail on so much about lies on one side are not equally railing against the lies of Abbott, as Fu links to one in her last post.

    Surely they are not openly admitting they are crass hypocrites, that this current government is so unworthy and such a failure that resorting to crass hypocrisy is all they have left to defend it?

  230. “joy cooper
    FEBRUARY 12, 2014 @ 1:06 PM
    At the risk of encouraging simpleton, JohnB, by answering his inane questions I must say he is really dense if he truly believes Toyota is the only industry, in Australia, which closes for three weeks over Christmas.”

    At the risk of encouraging the simpleton, Joy Cooper, by responding to her inane comment, I must say she is really dense if she truly believes that I made a point about Toyota shutting down for three weeks over Christmas.

    I think it was the intelligent, Neil of Sydney, who made the comment about the three week shutdown.

    Now, I don’t entirely agree with everything Neil says, but he is far more objective, calm and reasoned than any of the mindless Labor apologists here.

  231. Steven Subhash James
    FEBRUARY 13, 2014 @ 12:42 AM
    “thanks phil, they do go very quiet sometimes, when you hit them hard and often. i think they run out of bullshit, and need to find more bullshit.”

    Actually, Steven, I was a bit busy, in the office, working on the best way to distribute an Australian designed product to parts of Europe and maximise the financial returns TO Australia.

  232. Fed up
    FEBRUARY 15, 2014 @ 10:55 AM
    As we knoiw, Abbott generally has a version for all sides of the fence. Yes, he said he was nothing more than a weather vane,

    How does this statement of his sit with his present actions and comments?

    ……..’Any government which makes it harder to manufacture cars is making it harder for us to continue to be a first world economy because without cars, without steel, without aluminium, without cement, we don’t have these manufacturers in Australia, we are not really a sophisticated economy any more.”
    These thoughtful words, taken from the Liberal Party website, were uttered by none other than Tony Abbott after one of his fancy dress tours of the Ford production line at Geelong in 2011

    Actually, Fed Up, if you’d used a bit more of the grey matter, you’d see that he is not inconsistent with his current position.

    He talked about making it “harder” to manufacture cars. Contributing factors to “difficulty” are unreasonable wage demands which threaten the industry. The Labor government of the day had absolutely no freakin’ idea how to run the government or the economy properly. The stupid bastards couldn’t run a milk bar.

    The proof of that was the absolutely unproductive waste and rorting of the “stimulus” which could have had lasting benefits in infrastructure development, but all we got was some overpriced insulation and billions down the toilet in remediation.

    Of course, Ford closed under a Labor government and this closure is what made it easier for the others to bail out as well.

  233. JohnB, NoS, vBS, pray tell good fellows, 😀 , what are your thoughts on the Abbott comment Fu posted @ 10.55.

  234. LOVO, it appears it is my gray matter that is amiss. Still find it hard to understand how one can make opposing statements, both being correct.

    Now this is what he said a month ago. How does it fit in, with what is in the news today.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/how-australia-trespassed-into-indonesias-waters-had-wrong-information/story-fncynjr2-1226804452006#ooid=Q4bmMzazrEp-H0nEkQyaDLg6tgjO_OhO

    http://www.news.com.au/national/how-australia-trespassed-into-indonesias-waters-had-wrong-information/story-fncynjr2-1226804452006

  235. Fed Up

    Shaun Micallef explained how easy it is for a ship to stray into another country’s sovereign territory.

    “Water is wobbly.”

    Therefore, we need to make allowances for naval vessels even though they are equipped with the latest in navigational technology – stuff sitting on top of water slides about due to this water wobbliness.

    😛

  236. “diannaart, I do hope we never go to war.”

    Actually i think you do hope we can go to war with Indonesia. Then you can play politics with the issue and blame Abbott..

    The loyalty to Australia for most ALP supporters is much lower than their loyalty to the ALP. Most ALP supporters hope Abbott will fail.

  237. N o S

    I have not voted ALP since the days of Hawke/Keating, nor the Liberals since….um, I was 18 and had not really experienced much of life.

    But do not let me interrupt your assumptions about everything – just as long as it is keeping you occupied and I can back away quietly…

    😛

  238. Neil, you are really silly or sick.

    Why would one want war with Indonesia. The country is too important to our future.

    I really believe the Indonesians are very patient and they are playing games with Abbott Morrison and Bishop.

    They will pull the trap when ready.

    The Indonesians, thanks to many spending their school and university days in this country, I understand us better than we give credit for. They are aware that many in this country, see Abbott as they do.

    For this, we should give thanks.

    What does worry me more, is after the upcoming elections, we might be dealing with a government that is not so reasonable, that we might have real worries when it comes to that country.

    What is more worrying, if the Indonesian FM does take the matter to the USA and other countries, they will be forced to passed judgement on the actions and policies of our government.. Yes, worrying indeed.

    Calling ones ambassador in is serious business. One that Bishop will not be able to shrug off.

    Reality has a way of winning out in the end,

    Lying and hiding one’s head in the sand is rarely a winning combination.

  239. Neil of Sydney is correct, the losers of the Labor fringe WANT a bust-up with Indonesia. War, diplomatic problems, trade bans, whatever. They want Indonesia to “win” because it means their implacable enemy, Abbott will “lose”.

    This is clear when they take the side AGAINST Australia over issues.
    However it is possible to correct Australia, when it is wrong, while remaining loyal and objective.

    We can say that we don’t want our Navy boats to inadvertently stray into Indonesian waters (as the PM has indicated) but the orgy of venom directed at Abbott misses the mark.
    It is to be remembered that it is Indonesian owned and crewed vessels deliberately breaching Australian sovereignty. When those points are stacked up against the Navy’s inadvertent breach, the issue is more complex.

    The reaction, by Indonesia, in moving some of their “naval assets” to the area between Indonesia and Australia might actually make it more difficult for people smugglers to head off to Australia.

    Maybe the Navy’s accidental error has actually led to a better outcome!

  240. Navy angry that Morrison is acting like their Defence Minister.

    That from Ltd News.

    First Immigration Minister to visit military bases and treating destitute asylum seekers as enemy combatants. It’s belittling our highly trained Defence personal and sapping morale.

  241. There is now a clear blurring between the separation of civil and military functions that are a part of the Westminster system. Blurring this separation is something autocracies engage in.

  242. “Why would one want war with Indonesia. ”

    That is easy to explain. Because it would help the ALP win the next election.

  243. Neil, you seem a little confused. It is the Liberals that seem to like taking us to war.

    Though it is generally getting us involved in the war of others.

    It is new, to see them trying to start one.

    Now Labor PM’s do like withdrawing us from war zones. Was Whitlams first act as PM.

    Sadly, they did back Howard in Afghanistan, Where taken in with the lies when it came to Irak.

    No Neil, there are no votes to be found in a war with Indonesia for anyone. Neil, war is not likely to happen.

    Your paranoia is definitely getting out of hand.

  244. Big turn out for Medicare today. Interesting. It appears Queensland is trialing, allowing those with private insurance be seen in the surgery first. SBS new.

  245. Fed up, don’t know how that crazy LNP thought bubble would work with GPs. Many GPs don’t even bulk-bill eligible patients & they have to pay the full fee upfront then claim back the Medicare rebate so in effect they are being treated as private patients. Giving a privately insured patient priority with appointments would mean bumping those, who already have an appointment, off their appointed time & having to wait even longer to see their GP. Now that will go down well, especially if their appointment was made weeks in advance. Treating certain people like second class citizens is un-Australian, isn’t it?

    Think the medical centre I attend would refuse to participate in this scheme if it was brought in.

  246. Mr. Obama is out, visiting the drought areas in the USA. It seems they are enduring the worst drought in 500 years.

    Difference with Mr. Obama, is that he is blaming man made climate change.

  247. Joy, it seems doctors and their bodies agree with you. What worries one, is that they are trying to turn Medicare into welfare. It is not. It is just a universal insurance scheme.

    If Medicare is not meeting its aims, due to rising costs, one does a as it occurs elsewhere, raise the Medicare levy, or what it really is, customer contribution.

  248. I love the whine one hears in Hockey’s voice.

    The answer to his question is found in that Free Trading deal, they rushed to sign with South Korea. It will have a harmful effect on all our manufacturing industries.

    NB. How MacFarlane was sold out. I believeeleve he was genuine about trying to save the industry. He was overridden by extremes in the Cabinet.

  249. Re Medicare Fed up, you are correct, it IS a universal health insurance scheme NOT welfare as the Liberals are trying to make out it is.

    It makes me cranky when a self-entitled medical specialist claims people don’t appreciate what they don’t pay for. Rubbish. We all paid or have paid our Medicare levy. My Mayo Clinic trained cardiologist who is/was very highly respected both here in Australia & OS, said he believed other cardiologists were price gouging when they demanded high fees for consultations. He bulk-billed everyone.

  250. Love the comment made on the Insiders. Yes, they believe Dr. Sharman Stone saved Abbott when it came to SPC. I think that Naphine might also have helped.

  251. Was sitting in a bone doctors surgery, for my first consultation. I was charged $170 up front, even though on pension.

    The woman after me, was in a similar position, except it was a workers comp. It appears of long standing.

    She was told she would have to pay $230 up front. $60 more than me, for the same type of consultation. Her her comment, this was the fist time she had to pay, in the last five years.

    Is this doctor ripping off workers comp? I would say so.

  252. He sure was FU. Their secretaries make a point of telling patients the upfront fee is “only” so & so because “you are on a pension”. Make it sound as if it is charity. We have cancelled appointments due to not being able to pay the large co-payment & the secretaries never question it.

    Have had procedures done in a Qld public hospital where they tried to charge for it even though it was already paid for by Medicare. Newman’s nirvana.

  253. In this case, in NSW, well on the Central Coast, pensioners are treated the same. It is the comp funds that are being ripped off.

    I have never got a rebate for being on the full pension. They add up, when one has two in a week.

    No choice, as I want to see again. Also need to fix the feet, so I can wear shoes. Neither life threatening, but do make mobility hard.

  254. Will this one go away.

    ….t is also understood that Mr Furnival’s proposed appointment was held up by the Prime Minister’s chief of staff, Peta Credlin, due to concerns over his background and commercial interests. A source revealed there was a level of frustration within the Prime Minister’s inner circle over Mr Furnival, which had led to his initial appointment being temporary and subject to adequate performance. However, his appointment was eventually confirmed without any attempt to ensure he had cut his ties to the lobbying firm.
    This is horseshit.

    Peta Credlin and Alistair Furnival were both staffers in the Howard government. I make no comment on how close they may or may not have been at various points, but it is flatly untrue that Furnival’s was just another CV to her. The fact that Furnival was a loyalist and a known quantity is why the normal checks and balances weren’t done.

    Furnival is a long-term lobbyist with occasional bouts of staffer work, to keep his gamekeeper skills sharp when he returns to poaching. He’s a headkicker first and foremost. I first met him when he was working for Senator Michael Baume in Wollongong, one of the few pockets of Australia with a critical mass of actual socialists for a university conservative to hate. Even Baume found him a bit rebarbative. Labor people like Gareth Evans might ‘love humanity but hate people’, but Furnival hated everyone equally except for those who paid him. He is the guy you want to bulldoze others out of your way, if that’s what you need to have done. Furnival wouldn’t have much business nous and prolonged exposure to the man would irritate even loyal staff and clients.

    The fact that there was no follow-up check is what’s significant here. It’s all very well to be an all-powerful control freak, but the converse is you have to be right about absolutely everything all the time. Credlin could be forgiven for taking her pal Al on trust if she was a trusting, hands-off manager, but she isn’t.

    Kenny has no excuse not to be awake up to this – other than the fact that getting Credlin offside might make his ‘job’ a bit harder. Are there any other Coalition staffers still on a kind of temporary arrangement (and if there are, put them on death-watch)? Who are they? Given the Howard government’s difficulties with shareholdings in 1996-97, and given Furnival’s direct experience with Santo Santoro’s conflicts of interest in 2006 – not to mention the Abbott government’s lapses over entitlements – why have these lessons not been learned? Kenny has let not only Nash and Furnival, but Credlin and Abbott, off the hook.

    Lobbyists walk past journos every day in Parliament House. By the time a policy has been announced via a press release, it has often been the subject of months or years of lobbying. Journalists report on stories without any mention of the lobbying, which impoverishes their coverage and diminishes the job they are there to do. Nobody votes for lobbyists, but former Coalition staffers Andrew Parker and Olivia Wirth at Qantas are having more of an impact on public policy than most backbenchers – or even Bill Shorten.

    Mind you, if Credlin starts pole-axing Furnival-style loyalists, nobody will want to work for the Liberal Party at all.
    Labor health spokeswoman Catherine King … said Senator Nash had still not adequately explained why she had decided to intervene and pull down the health star website.

    “She had no reason to do that, nor in fact any authority to do that, and she has failed the entire week to actually explain that,” [King] said.
    In a opposition that bet everything on Fuehrerprinzip, Nash was relatively high-profile. Her failures of explanation are the fault of an insufficiently attentive press gallery. Labor Senate leader Penny Wong followed the document trail and did the job on Nash; only Corderoy, far away in Sydney, seemed to have noticed. The Opposition did its job of scrutinising the goings-on in Nash’s office; the press gallery did not.
    Senator Nash has repeatedly claimed that Mr Furnival has no conflict of interest, as he distanced himself from the company he owns, receives no income from it, and his wife had committed not to undertake further lobbying in the health area after his appointment.
    What does it mean for Furnival to have “distanced himself”? Nobody gets to be a career staffer these days, and like all the smarties in the Coalition Furnival has no interest in becoming an actual elected official. This means the guy is a career lobbyist, a member of an elite that can never be removed from office by voting or other means, a cat who always falls on his feet…….

    http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/catch-up-journalism.html

  255. Launch of SA elections with Mr. Shorten.

    Wonder if Abbott will be welcome. Seems Glasson;s pre-poll vote was better than on the day. Declined after Abbott appeared on the scene.

  256. It appears, when one concentrates on demolishing, ione does not need lleglisation.


    THE HON TONY BURKE MP

    SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE

    MANAGER OF OPPOSITION BUSINESS

    MEMBER FOR WATSON
    MEDIA RELEASE
    NO LEGISLATION PROOF GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLAN FOR AUSTRALIA’S
    FUTURE
    On the second day of sitting in the first parliamentary week of 2014 the Abbott Government ran out of legislation to debate in the House of Representatives. After question time on Tuesday it became clear the Government had no further legislation to debate and were forced to move to
    Addresses in Reply.
    Manager of Opposition Business Tony Burke said this proves the Government has no
    real legislative agenda and no plan for Australia’s future.

    “Here we are on the first week of Parliament in 2014 and the Government has run out of legislation,” Mr Burke said.

    “In a we
    ek where Toyota has announced it will cease manufacturing in Australia leaving 2500 people jobless, the Government is sitting around twiddling its thumbs.
    “This is clear evidence the Abbott Government has no plan for Australia’s future.”
    Mr Burke highlighted that despite the lack of legislative agenda, the Government moved to gag a debate on announced job losses at the Gove refinery in Nhulunbuy, East Arnhem Land.
    “This is unbelievable,” Mr Burke said.

    “Across Australia thousands of manufacturing
    workers are learning they will be
    losing their jobs and the Government wants to pretend it’s not happening

    . http://www.scribd.com/doc/206633595/The-Hon-Tony-Burke-Mp

  257. Shorten once again being interviewed ABC 24.

    I believe that Abbott’s plane is having trouble landing. A little something like rain.

    We are also seeing Obama out on a similar mission, as our PM. Obama has put climate change upon the front of his message for drought stricken farmers.

  258. It’s about time, as Chopper would have said, that Shorten needs to harden the Fxxx Up. His Mother Theresa politics is not doing anything for his image as a strong labor leader. I can hardly believe that he once represented the Unions, Keating would have chewed him up and spat him out. And I had great hopes for him. The only labor politician that appears to be disgusted with what the Libs are doing, and is voicing this in a stronger tone, is Penny Wong. At least Kevin Rudd could use his wit and sarcasm to out-manoeuvre Tony Abbott. In hindsight, Rudd should have let Gillard go to the poles, lost, and then taken over as Opposition Leader, as I can’t see anyone in the current labor party that has any balls to show up the policies for what they are. The last decent Parliament Question Time was one Julia Gillard gave her mysoginist speech.

  259. Haha I had heard Abbott was hopeless as a boxer, just like everything else all mouth and here’s the evidence.

    Now if we can get photos of his bullying women and others weaker than himself he will be gone.

  260. Abbott is paying data mining companies $4.3 million to scour social media sites and report trends to the government. It has nothing to do with any government requirement as Brandis lied, but purely for party political purposes.

    Abbott’s return to the dark side of the Howard era is almost complete, only WorkChoices to go, and that’s on the way.

  261. Why don’t the right wingers rail against this misuse of government power and usurping of democracy. If Labor did a fraction of this they would be up in arms.

  262. “Abbott’s return to the dark side of the Howard era is almost complete,

    What dark side was this???

    Fair dinkum you lefties are insane.

    Filled with nothing but hate, bitterness, deceit and lies.

  263. Neil of Sydney
    wrote “Abbott’s return to the dark side of the Howard era is almost complete,”
    What dark side was this???
    Fair dinkum you lefties are insane.
    Filled with nothing but hate, bitterness, deceit and lies.”

    Absolutely spot on, Neil. Some of these dingbats cite “Independent Australia” as a source of information and news. May as well quote from the North Korean news agency, it’s about as believable and objective.

    Fed up wrote “Joy, it seems doctors and their bodies agree with you. What worries one, is that they are trying to turn Medicare into welfare. It is not. It is just a universal insurance scheme.”

    Agree, Fed Up, Medicare is not welfare it is insurance. Now, do you have an “excess” on your home or car insurance ?
    You know a sort of discouragement to make lots of small petty claims, but still protects you in the case of a major claim.

    Now in saying that, I am not making a statement either way on the “co-payment” discussion, I am merely pointing out a failure in your argument, as there are plenty of examples of something similar to the “co-payment” with insurance policies.

    That’s the trouble with the level of “debate” here, you rather sad left wing extremists are too blind because of your ideology, you fail to look at an issue objectively and in an intelligent way.
    Now, as I have pointed out before, I am not fully in agreement with all of Neil of Sydney’s views here, however he presents his arguments with far more intellectual rigor than those of you who are handicapped by your politically obsessive hatred of the centre right.

  264. And it gets worst. How can you right wingers condone this blatant giving of tax payers money to Abbott’s cronies to usurp democracy. Cubit Media, the company Abbott is giving millions to to data mine social media, director is Randal Killip, who also happens to be an organiser of “No to Carbon Tax” and writes for Menzies House.

    I see that you don’t condemn the misuse of millions of tax payers money for party political purposes aimed purely at keeping the Liberals in power. That is more telling of an extremism than anything anyone else has posted here.

    “Now, as I have pointed out before, I am not fully in agreement with all of Neil of Sydney’s views here, however he presents his arguments with far more intellectual rigor than those of you who are handicapped by your politically obsessive hatred of the centre right.”

    You prove yourself a joke JohnB. Can you point out all the times you have disagreed with Neil’s views? As to presenting arguments with far more intellectual rigor, that is very funny, you really do have to laugh.

  265. Mo, ” And it gets worst. How can you right wingers condone this blatant giving of taxpayers money to Abbott’s cronies to usurp democracy. Cubit Media, the company Abbott is giving millions to to data mine social media, director is Randal Killip, who also happens to be an organiser of “No to Carbon Tax” and writes for Menzies House.”
    Sounds a bit scary Mo, sounds like Abbotts got his Freikorps in to make his only ‘real policy’ so …… and that policy being Führerprinzip.
    Which has got me wondering NoS… are you a black shirterer or a brown shirterer….. just askin’ 😛

  266. LOVO
    “Mo, ” And it gets worst. How can you right wingers condone this blatant giving of taxpayers money to Abbott’s cronies to usurp democracy. Cubit Media, the company Abbott is giving millions to to data mine social media, director is Randal Killip, who also happens to be an organiser of “No to Carbon Tax” and writes for Menzies House.”

    Tell us about John McTernan, Gillard’s “spin doctor” who was employed to organise a chorus of online trolls ?

  267. John B , please just answer lovo’s statement. its very important. or don’t you care that abbott and his lying government are totally corrupt ! i suspect you will respond with either a question or abuse or ignore me, but never an answer.

  268. Oh JohnB how droll and so expected. Answer with a diversion of a look over there at Labor whilst not addressing the considerable failings and lies of Abbott.

    Abbott was touted by you right wingers as being a more than worthy replacement as he was not corrupt and a lying deceiver like those Labor people supposedly were. Yet it turns out Abbott and his government are far worse and the right wingers like you condone those deceits, lies and corruption by constantly harking back to Labor.

    It was all Brandis could on Q&A when caught out in several double standards, like accusing the current Labor opposition of being nothing but negative and refusing to address the Liberals own constant negativity.

    So why JohnB do you not have any problems with Abbott’s and his government’s corruption, lies and deceits when you did when Labor were in power? You wouldn’t be a hypocrite now would you, condoning double standards, meaning you have no credibility in what you say?

    Reply will be an attack on Labor and/or Labor supporters.

  269. Any moment now I’m expecting the right wingers to come out in outrage that asylum seekers are dying under Abbott’s watch with many more injured without any hark back to Labor. After all they made a lot about them dying during the Rudd/Gillard government, whilst skipping over the Howard deaths of course.

    ….any moment now!

    …right about now!

    ..?

  270. Unbelievable, only Liberals could blame the tragedy on Manus Island on Labor. It’s their answer to all their failures, blame Labor.

  271. What a laugh.

    Morrison, the person who has been speculating about what’s happening on Manus Island said this morning that people should stop speculating.

    They’re a rolling joke this government, but a sad tragic joke not a mirthful one.

  272. The biggest worry of all is that after all that has happened with the woeful Abbott & Newman governments, Tasmania & South Australia seem poised to vote in Coalition state governments!!! Haven’t they, also, noted the other debacles that are the WA, Vic & NSW state Coalition governments?

    Of course, aren’t they Murdoch states?

  273. So there are up to thirty thousand nannies working cash in hand. Some for decades. Is that not illegal.

    I wonder how one ensure the safety of the child or children. It is near impossible to do so in normal childcare facilities.

    Where are the educational advantages for a child, in the daily care of a nannies.

    How does one ensure they glorified house maids.

    Is it not time the taxation officer began to investigate this taxation evasion?

    Is it not time these mothers, and maybe fathers are sued under our IR laws.

    I must say, corruption appears to be rife among upper income earners.

  274. It appears we have the lowest growth in wages since records have been kept. Back in the 1970’s.

    Where is the wage break out, that Abetz claims as an excuse to attack wages and conditions.

  275. Look the stalker returns, not as The don i see ! just like abbott you accuse and abuse. but never ever answer a question ! because your just a nasty little troll. tell me nasty little troll, i bet your just loving it that someone has been killed in PNG ! you want them all dead don’t you, you nasty little troll ! you welcome the return of the nazi’s don’t you ! there must be something good in it for you to support Abbott and his henchmen ! tell me nasty little troll, whats in it for you ? I know you can’t answer a direct question, because your just a nasty little troll ! instead you will abuse me, because your just a nasty little troll ! yajustgottalaugh, at the nasty little troll !

  276. Maybe he listened to Pyne on Lateline, Would not find it hard, to, find anyone that has not been left completely confused.

    It is OK, Pyne has fixed the funding problem for the school. No need to worry, oh, and yes, he did say that no pone should think they can get away with bald face lies in the house.

    Yes, that privileges committee is going to be busy this year.

    One could begin with Abbott, Pyne, and Morrison from last week. As for the Senate, that is a worry. Where does one start

  277. Fed Up: The general population want to ignore the fact that we have had the lowest wage increases and have begun carving up the carcass by blaming productivity. And this weeks little gem, is that Medicare will be disbanded as we know it, LNP wants to go to the American model, where only those that can afford it will get the best treatment, which of course will be in our Public System! As it is the Private Health scheme is the biggest rip off I can think of, it doesn’t cover doctors visits, if it covers hospital beds, the gap payment + the monthly cost of medical insurance makes illness extremely expensive, and the irony is that the private system cannot offer long term care, life saving transplant surgery, life saving heart and stroke care. And the latest ad by the Private Health officianados is that if you break your arm or leg you will be forced to wait months for surgery. Absolute horse shite, if you front up at a PUBLIC HOSPITAL it will be seen to immediately.

  278. Mobius re your comments on the tragic situation on Manus. According to Scott Morrison it is only a ‘disturbance’, suggesting that these events are only a minor hiccup and to brush off the criticism, hey, tell them, we will make enquiries into it. If this had occured under Labor the greenies would have been chaining themselves to the facility.

  279. @BSA Bob
    RAN dropped right in it was my reaction too – seems the Indonesians don’t buy the bullshit explanation either.
    They have modern vessels too. 🙄

  280. Can Abbott deliver us a roswy future he promises?

    ….Roads, those things cars run on, the cars that won’t be made in Australia anymore. Roads, that were last at the cutting edge of innovation about 2,000 years ago when the ancient Roman Emperors were planning their future economies. And it is this kind of vision, or the lack of it, which makes suspect Abbott’s broad promise to build the future.

    If his government can be said to have an underlying philosophy, it appears to be Luddism – a deep distrust of new technology, and of the science behind it. Abbott started by abolishing the science ministry as a separate entity and attacking such new-fangled ideas as renewable energy, and while not actually rejecting the science of climate change, he has certainly rejected the measures recommended by scientists and economists to combat it. And just last week he yet again squibbed making a decision on a second Sydney airport.

    Instead, he has made it clear that coal remains king; this is one area where ports and railways – as well as roads, of course – are to be encouraged at the expense of all long-term environmental risks. And while some entitlements may be threatened, there is no suggestion of cutting down on the massive subsidies available to the mining industry as a whole, especially the provision of cheap diesel fuel.

    So where are the jobs of the future going to come from? Well, almost certainly not from new discoveries in science and technology; those capable of making them are unlikely to hang around in Australia when it has been made clear to them that their specialties are considered superfluous to the government’s program.

    The service industries will probably continue to expand, but these are unlikely to offer many opportunities to those who have spent the better part of their working lives in factories. And this is the catch: there will be new jobs – there always are. But those sacked from their old ones won’t be the ones taking them.,,,

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-17/maccallum-theres-only-so-many-jobs-in-building-roads/5264274

    Will building roads save us all?

    Why do we only hear from this government is the word “cost”, and what we cannot afford.
    Why do we not hear, when it comes to such things as health, is what the money pent on health saves the country. Yes saves.

    Why do we not look at whether the money spent, delivers dividends. Yes a healthier, more independent, healthy population, well into old age. People who are capable of caring for themselves and not an impost on society.

    The real question is :Can re afford not to spend the money?”

  281. Dutton now on ABC 24. It appears we are back to private/[public relationships when building hospitals. This has failed in the past.

  282. Hello children. Just thought I’d drop in to raise the IQ here, you need all the help you can get.

    Now I’ve been admonished for not answering Lovo’s challenge about Abbott employing some media research companies.

    Well I hadn’t heard much about this but I checked my favourite lefty propaganda site (Fairfax) and they report a much more measured tone than the conspiracy nutters here.

    Basically it’s this;

    Coalition is spending less than Labor on this social media research.
    All sides of politics do this sort of research.
    Cubit Media’s founder says his company has also done work for Labor.

    Nothing to see here, move along, move along.

  283. “Well I hadn’t heard much about this but I checked my favourite lefty propaganda site (Fairfax) and they report a much more measured tone than the conspiracy nutters here.

    Did you notice they never provided an actual link?? Just gave a statement and then assumed you would believe them.

    If a link was not given you can be sure the lefties were being sneaky.

  284. Can you be the stuck up yourself adult you purport and source that for us please JohnB giving us exactly what Cibit’s charter was under Labor and what it is under this government.

    And to prove your self-aggrandised IQ can you also link to us where the previous Labor government banned their ministers from mentioning a personal staffer of the PM, shut down ministers from posting on social media and conducted major policy in total secrecy.

    Whilst your hyperbolising your intelligence do you mind telling us why such a smartarse as you is OK with a PM and government that constantly lies, deceives and breaks promises when you weren’t that generous the previous government, after all crass hypocrisy is not a sign of a superior intelligence at all but the opposite.

  285. How about the right wingers address this blatant lie by the then opposition, and one they’re still telling to this day, that wages have sky rocketed and are too high because of Labor’s IR policy.

    It was Howard’s reign that drove up wages, and indeed he once bragged about getting workers higher wages, the ones big business are screaming about at the moment and Gina wants reduced to $2. Yet somehow like so many other things Abbott, the Liberals and their gormless supporters out and out lied about, it was Labor who implemented a wages breakout, created a huge government and every other negative that were actually the deceptive and conniving Howard’s doing.

  286. (Yawn), here’s the link to the SMH article.
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/social-media-trawled-as-government-spends-43-million-on-research-contracts-20140215-32snf.html

    Mobius ” do you mind telling us why such a smartarse as you is OK with a PM and government that constantly lies, deceives and breaks promises when you weren’t that generous the previous government”

    Please detail the promises explicitly broken, as opposed to those not yet delivered while they deal with the clusterfuck left by Labor.

    Mobius “It was Howard’s reign that drove up wages, and indeed he once bragged about getting workers higher wages, the ones big business are screaming about at the moment and Gina wants reduced to $2.”

    Please let us know where exactly Gina wanted wages reduced to “$2.00”, as opposed to where she merely warned that this is what Australia was competing with.

    Neil of Sydney “If a link was not given you can be sure the lefties were being sneaky.”

    Once again, Neil, I have to disagree with you. These particular lefties here are not “being sneaky”, their mindless parroting of the same old lines, empty arguments & hollow rhetoric would seem to indicate that they are too bloody thick to be “sneaky”!

  287. Oh poor JohnB, being the smartarse as usual and not addressing the points.

    As to pointing out the previous government’s broken promises and failures, they are a perfect example of the divide between the right and left on this. If you go back you will often find the left criticising their own and condemning the broken promises, that is real broken promises, not ones the right falsely decreed were broken promises.

    Yet on the right you rarely, if ever, see them condemn their own for failures or broken promises. Indeed they go to great lengths, using trickery and mangled history, but most often obfuscation by attacking Labor, to condone their own broken promises, lies and deceits.

    I can provide a list of Abbott’s backflips and broken promises, there’s several floating around the web, but what’s the use JohnB, an ideologically blind mind like yours will ignore them anyway and if like all the the other right wingers will divert to blaming Labor for something.

    Shit, even the senior Liberal pollies do it on the international stage, with Abbott in his much criticised Davos speech and Hockey last night having a direct dig at the previous Labor government to the international media.

    Gina’s comment, widely condemned and panned by the world’s media.

    “The evidence is inarguable that Australia is becoming too expensive and too uncompetitive to do export-oriented business.

    “Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day. Such statistics make me worry for this country’s future.”

    As the media rightly pointed out they were not willing to work for that, they had no other choice if they wanted to live.

  288. All of Rhinhart’s inferences were that Australian workers had to compete with their $2 a day African counterparts, and her statements came a week after she said that Australian workers socialised and drank too much. That from a person who was earning $600 a second and is renowned for her socialising in heady circles.

  289. “(Yawn), here’s the link to the SMH article.”

    JohnB, (Yawn) and all, you did not answer my question at all but instead provided a link to a newspaper article that doesn’t answer it either. The closes it gets is a statement from Cubit saying the current contract is an extension to the previous government one, but he in no way details what those extensions are and what was the scope of the contract under the previous government.

    In other words like the right wingers and Liberal pollies so often do, we got a non-answer and an obfuscation.

  290. Mobius, thank you for posting the quote from Gina Rinehart.

    “The evidence is inarguable that Australia is becoming too expensive and too uncompetitive to do export-oriented business.
    “Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day. Such statistics make me worry for this country’s future.”

    I agree with Gina’s comment, I am worried for this country’s future, based on those figures.
    Not because I want or think people here should be paid $2 per day, but because the plain simple facts are that some people ARE being paid $2 per day, which makes it hard to compete.

    Nowhere did Rinehart say she wanted to pay Australians $2.00 per day, but it is sensible to be concerned about the numbers, particularly if some crooked, exploitative Chinese miner pays a pittance for mine workers where wages and safety standards are low.

    You, and your fellow misanthropes, immediately jump to the worst interpretation of what she meant.
    Nothing surprises me when the morally bankrupt of the loony left, behave like that.

    Let me just correct a potential misunderstanding.

    I don’t like Gina Rinehart, I think she’s a selfish bitch, but I will judge her on her actions, not the lies and spin of arseholes misrepresenting what she said.

  291. Where has Gina Rinehart argued that workers in third world nations should be paid a liveable income?

    Where has she argued that Australians should be paid a liveable income in parity with the cost of living?

    BTW Not all exploited workers live in China – why single out this nation?

  292. Sorry JohnB your colours are showing again. I guess you would be the first to volunteer to have a wage lower than a liveable income? Of course not, and here come the excuses why you’re above that.

    All those who advocate lower wages and conditions, and it’s almost exclusively the right who do so, are the ones who won’t have their incomes from whatever source cut, indeed are those who will increase their income from the lower wages and conditions of others.

    By the way the LNP is getting whopped in the Redcliffe by-election and it’s a middle income who are backlashing against them. That says a lot.

    It’s the destruction of the middle income in the US that has destroyed that country, and Abbott along with the State Liberals are heading us the same way. Let’s hope they wise up here and toss this lot out sooner rather than later.

  293. Can’t believe the lefties.

    Wages increased from 1996-2007 under Howard.

    And unemployment went from 8% to 4%.

  294. Exactly diannaart her statement was that they were willing to work for $2 a day. That is a direct lie and the inference was Australian workers should be willing to work for much less, the equivalent of $2 a day here.

    How would anyone be willing to work for substandard wages and conditions. Of course they aren’t willing at all, they do so because they have no other choice, as the protesting for better wages and conditions miners in Africa who where shot found out.

    It harks back to the time Vanstone at the height of the protests against WorkChoices stated that any job on any wage and conditions, no matter how low and for whatever the boss deemed was better than no job. At the same time they were putting more onerous provisions on getting the dole and reducing the safety net provisions, so forcing people onto very low paid jobs and long hours with little to no conditions.

    Welcome to the future Abbott is aiming for, or more accurately the one his masters are pushing him towards.

  295. “Welcome to the future Abbott is aiming for, or more accurately the one his masters are pushing him towards.

    I know you people say i repeat myself but here it is again

    “Sept-Dec 1991- 10.1, 10.0, 10.2, 10.4
    Jan-Dec 1992- 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 11.2
    Jan-Dec1993- 10.9, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 10.8, 11.0, 10.8, 11.0, 10.7, 10.9, 10.8, 10.6
    Jan-April 1994- 10.4, 10.3, 10.3, 10.1

    That was the unemployment rate under Hawke/Keating

    But you leftoids voted for Hawke/Keating anyway

    hence facts are irrelevant.

    The Australian Labor Party is a corrupt and immoral political Party elected b corrupt and immoral people.

  296. I wonder how Malaysia feels. Once again we are asking poor countries to take on our responsibilities and burdens

    ……………………….PHNOM PENH, Feb 22 (Reuters) – Australia asked Cambodia, one of Asia’s poorest countries, on Saturday to take in asylum seekers detained while trying to reach the Australian coast and Cambodia said it would think about it.

    Australia’s government came to power last year partly because of a tough stance on asylum seekers arriving from Indonesia with Prime Minister Tony Abbott promising to “stop the boats”.

    Australia already has offshore detention centres in the impoverished South Pacific nations of Papua New Guinea and Nauru for asylum seekers it intercepts, often in rickety boats.

    On Saturday, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop asked Prime Minister Hun Sen if Cambodia, which in the 1970s and 1980s saw a huge exodus of refugees fleeing war and starvation, could also house some migrants.

    “The Australi,,,,,,,,,,,

    http://www.trust.org/item/20140222082059-km3i5/

  297. Neil, unemployment figures of their own mean nothing. Nothing at all. They must always be looked at in context. What were the figures in other countries at that time.

    What is unusual over the last few years, is that our figures appear to have gone against the global trend.,

    Neil, those figures cannot in any way be compared with what is occurring today.

    This government in less than six months has made substantial changes to the budget. What occurs can only be sheeted home to them.

    I remember a timer, under a certain treasure that became PM, we had high inflation and high unemployment at the same time. Now that is only interesting as a historical fact. Has nothing to do with what is occurring today

    What saddens me, that after all this time, you still do not comprehend.

  298. Only a Liberal politician could do this.

    Caught on the news at the pub, no sound sorry, a Liberal politician who abused voters in his electorate has gone into hiding.

  299. Neil, there is unemployment under all governments. It has more to do with the economical cycle than who is in power.

  300. What is amazing about the economies of our near Asian neighbors, is not the number on low wages, but their rapidly growing middle classes.

    Yes, it seems higher wages are needed to enable an economy to thrive.

    Our future lies in rising, wages, not the slide to the bottom.

  301. Newman is surprised at the large swing against him, and make no mistake Redcliff was the voters giving it to Newman and it will be Abbott’s fate if he keeps going down the destructive tact he currently is.

  302. “Neil, there is unemployment under all governments. It has more to do with the economical cycle than who is in power.”

    Too funny. If the Coalition was in power and had 30 months of DD unemployment you would be abusing the Coalition.

    Morality for you depends on who is in power

  303. “…government’s commitment to secrecy should be a concern for everyone. Secrecy is completely inadequate for democracy but totally appropriate for tyranny. If the minister will not inform the public, then we are within our right to assume the worst. No free and fair nation operates with secrecy as a blanket policy position. Democracies are based on the foundation of public scrutiny and open government.”

    Spoken by a conservative.

    So why don’t the right wingers have any problems with this secretive and deceitful Abbott government, worse they go out of their way to make lame excuses for their moral and democratic failures..

  304. Neil of Sydney

    Neil, once again, I am going to have to disagree with you in a polite and respectful manner, over your statement, “The Australian Labor Party is a corrupt and immoral political Party elected b(y) corrupt and immoral people.

    I’d suggest a correction, “The Australian Labor Party is a corrupt and immoral political Party elected by corrupt, immoral and/or gullible people.

  305. So as is so typical JohnB avoids the very questions he asked and had answered in another topic and puts up a stupid little unfunny post attacking Labor in this one, and two days later as well.

    No more evidence is needed that JohnB knows this current government is the worst ever and he has no way of defending it, on of obfuscating for it by always raising Labor.

    A tragic joke.

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