Stark raving mad

I’ve only got one thing to say about the right-wingers who’ve frequented this site over the last three years: they’re stark raving mad.

I haven’t read one sensible coherent comment from them yet.

Do you feel the same?

OMG they babble on with the most inane nonsense. They’ve mastered the art of waffling on about the most pathetic irrelevancies.

Do you agree with that too?

How many times have they been invited to bring some logic into a debate? What a wasted exercise that was.

Again, do you agree?

231 comments on “Stark raving mad

  1. We know who they are – Scaper, Neil, Tweed, Voyager, Summo. They are wastes of electrons. If you banned them, you would get no complaint from me.

  2. Silkworm, the thought has often crossed my mind, but then I think of all the comedy relief they provide us. As long as they don’t turn nasty they’re somewhat bearable. If they were, they would have gone the same way as the trolls who used to come here.

  3. It’s the same on various social media sites. The drivel that abounds on Facebook and Twitter is astounding to say the least. The most recent I saw was a series of rants on Facebook about “values”. Honestly, read like a sermon from Hillsong Church. There’s something very children of the corn about it all…

  4. Comments such as these on this site are taken by me as a complement.
    So thank you all.
    Today was another disaster for Rudd , just how humiliating when 2 Department
    Heads issue a Statement very clearly correcting the ‘ falsities ‘ of the PMs
    Statement today. Even ABC News called Rudd a liar.
    Can you pls post your best realistic prediction for the Number of seats
    Won/Lost by Labor v Coalition.

  5. You bet I agree. Love the clarity, and opportunity to say Yes!

    I try to talk some sense in to them and to see if they can think laterally or be a little creative with their minds. But they are just stuck, rail roaded I guess, hiding in the safety of their own opinions, I even have to work with them out here. Have client and the one over him as abject greed numbers…boy! is this stuffing up the job. They are all struck in low level emotional stuff from what I am seeing.. And you have to keep adjusting away from their sickness, as it’s quite insidious, and can catch you out. I thought the job was finished but I have pointed out a major flaw, so now it is probably back to the drawing board. I think they are a bit thick actually…hate to say this…as one gives people the benefit of the doubt.
    Not that I’ve given Abbott any., Strange how this is impossible for me. Something very weird about him…

  6. What gets me, is they seem to get childish pleasure, out what they think is gloating.

    They are so thick, they do not notice, they get no response from us.

    I suspect that is what they are about. Not really interested in politics at all. Just like being nasty.

  7. Agree. I have been handing out how to vote cards at the pre-election booth in my conservative safe electorate. Abuse and verbal diarrhoea is guaranteed to come from a Liberal/National party voter.
    A volunteers role is made so much easier that all the other volunteers have been very supportive.

  8. Michael you are right there is a collective madness amongst the right wingers. A madness that they cannot to see … a madness that will not allow them to see the beauty and truth in the Australian Labor Party. Why? Clinical madness.

  9. The only thing madder than bloggers are journo’s

    A great smack-down of the media’s total loss of comprehension and blind inability to see that Treasury were talking to them, not Labor, when it put out it’s statement yesterday.

    But, still, we get a full day of inaccurate reporting claiming that Treasury were slapping down Labor.

    The level of stupidity expressed by our media verges on the criminal

  10. Let’s look at VOYAGER post as a typical one where he attempted to throw in a strawman, please look at Rudd and not at our stupidity, but he did without thinking what he was saying and realising the full implication if taken to its conclusion. He just wanted to regurgitate the MSM attack on this without in the slight bit analysing that attack. If it had been an attack on Abbott he would have ignored it.

    So what is the conclusion. If Labor did get it wrong on the $10 billion, and it seems that is the case, and Treasury has distanced itself from it, which also seems to be the case, and the right wingers are using that as proof to attack Labor then all other Treasury actions and costings for the Coalition are also valid. The right wingers can’t cherry pick just those bits that suit them.

    This means the entire Coalition costing and policy framework as set out by them as a plan, including Abbott’s signature piece PPL, fraudband and DAP are in deep shit, Hockey’s figures are way out, which is why he won’t allow full costings to be undertaken and the Coalition have promised around $70+ billion in unfunded liabilities with only being able to fund a fraction of that through savings, even if you add in the $10 billion in dispute as raised by VOYAGER.

    So VOYAGER has admitted the Coalition are economic ignoramuses and have been bullshitting everyone, including himself. But as it is the Coalition bullshitting and likely to send us down the tubes VOYAGER because of his hypocrisy and ideological blinkers doesn’t care as long as he can go “nya nya”.

  11. I rather think they are just old males who grew up with papers like the Telegraph which had some degree of journalistic integrity back in the olden days. They haven’t been able to accept the fact that the good journalists have been replaced by people like Bolt and Akerman who are now no more than the suppositories of knowledge provided to them by their Uncle Rupert. They’re harmless.

  12. Even ABC News called Rudd a liar.

    You sound like you’re surprised that the ABC would say something negative about Labor. I suppose all this time you’ve been ‘believing’ the ABC is biased IN FAVOUR of Labor? Time to wake up at last, mastermind, stop believing everything the Lieberals tell you. Their ABC is almost as strong in its pro-Liberal bias as Ltd News. Where the fuck have you been all this time?

  13. I am sure that Mr. Abbott will release all the PBH figures immediately, to prove how wrong Rudd is. Yes, just release their costings, like all others have.

    Why hold them back?

  14. That scene of Abbott at the Homebush Netball centre, surrounded by those giggling girls, makes one wonder about him. Yes, advising the girls that bodily contact is OK. Yes, telling them, if one cannot beat the their opponents fairly, it is OK to knock them over.

  15. Does one wonder, why Abbott is never seen with the public. I know Rudd is following the same path, but at least we have seen him once or twice in public places with people about. Not so with Abbott. Why get on a plane, go to another states, find a park, and film.

  16. There’s definitely something that doesn’t add up about these people. They want their side to win. They’re full on barrackers. They gloat about polls that show them in a strong position. They put shit on the government in every comment. They complain about every little thing. They come here to regurgitate every little meme and lie from the Liberal media.

    And yet when you ask them WHY they think Abbott would be a ‘good’ PM, right out of character they’ve got nothing to say.

    A couple of times in the last 18 months or so Migs has started threads INVITING these people to make the case for Abbott. What transpired reveals a lot about their hollowness. None of them could answer it. Most did not even try. One loser, I don’t know if he still visits here, actually tried to deny that Migs was making the challenge.

    The ‘best’ attempt to answer it, and it was a complete Lol joke, was Neil of Sydney, who tried to say that Abbott would be a good PM because of his quote: “judgement”. We-e-e-e-ll, naturally many examples were put up to show that Abbott has bloody POOR judgement. Neil went quiet about it after that. Left the topic and never mentioned the matter again, never another word said.

    Surely if people are going to barrack hard for a team, and not just as a flash in the pan, but over a period OF YEARS, they must have a reason for doing so. Saying “I barrack for Team B because I don’t like Team A” isn’t enough. WHY do they barrack? WHAT do they stand for, apart from hating Team A? Do they stand for nothing? Is there no principle upon which they stand apart from ‘hating the other guy’?

    As I said, something doesn’t add up there. Their only convictions are negative – get the other guys out! – there’s nothing affirmative that they represent. They’re too one-dimensional, too lacking in substance. Something his not quite right. It’s like their reason for being politically, is built on smoke.

  17. If Labor did get it wrong on the $10 billion, and it seems that is the case, and Treasury has distanced itself from it, which also seems to be the case,

    I don’t think a reading of Treasuries statement when compared to Labors backs that up ME. Basically, the Treasury is statement is highlighting, for the benefit of the journos who made an assumption, that Labor did not get them to cost the oppositions policies, but rather a set of assumptions Labor provided them before the election was called. Labor have used those numbers to pick apart the assumptions the libs have claimed. I have not seen any analysis that shows Labors numbers to be wrong. The media would have you believe that, but, to date, it is all about misrepresenting Treasuries letter.

    Labors claim about the $10 Billion still needs to be verified, yet the journo’s appear to be unwilling to do this, perhaps thinking that misrepresenting a Treasury letter will suffice?

    Meanwhile, they (deliberately?) miss (again!) the elephant

  18. What Treasury was pointing out, costings can change, is the assumptions they are based on change. This is why Abbott thinks he can used his own people to do costings.

    What we need to know from Abbott, why the costings Rudd asked Treasury to do, based on what Abbott had disclosed are so wrong.

    Treasury was asked to do costings, based on what Abbott had revealed to the public. Yes, they did not add up, if not now, then.

    Mr. Abbott keeps saying, they have delivered all to the PBH office. Why not release the costings, and the assumptions they are based on.

    In fact Treasury announcement makes Abbott look a idiot, when it is now apparent, with the unstable global economy over the last few years, making predictions is impossible. Nothing to do wit Rudd getting disfigure wrong.

    Yes, the Department is correct to say they did not cost L-NP policies. They did cost the policies that Abbott had released, on behalf of Labor. They would have been well aware at the time, they where Abbott’s policies.

    Time for Abbott to stop playing games with the public, and release the costings in full today. If not, one can only come to the conclusion, they are hiding something.

  19. Treasury was asked to do costings, based on what Abbott had revealed to the public. Yes, they did not add up, if not now, then

    Precisely FU. Why cannot ONE journalist in the country wrap their vacant heads around such a simple concept?

    The link I put up at is a pretty detailed breakdown of the unfolding saga, with links to tweeters pointing out for the journo’s their mistakes. Reading karen middletons reaction as it slowly dawns on her, and then her retreat again back into the bunker of her own ignorance is quite amusing, and saddening at the same time.

  20. As Chris Bowen said this morning, the policies that he asked treasury to cost, is what was known in the public arena. Yes, the same policies that we know.

    Is Hockey telling us, the information he has released is not true. Much be, as that is what the Treasury costed. Information released by Hockey, into the public arena.

  21. The ABC seems to be the only media outlet reporting this with any accuracy. Well done to them I say.

    Departments take blow out of costings punch

    A statement from the Treasury and Finance departments has also taken some of the sting out of the Government’s claim.

    The departments said they had not costed the Opposition’s policies but policy options as provided by Labor.

    It pointed out that different assumptions, such as the start date of a policy, can generate different outcomes.

    “The financial implications of a policy may also differ depending on whether the costing is presented on an underlying cash balance or fiscal balance basis,” the statement read.

    Responding to the statement, Finance Minister Penny Wong said the Government’s submission was based on what the Opposition had said publicly.

    “If Joe Hockey says these assumptions are wrong, he can put his costings out to the Australian people,” she told ABC News 24.

  22. Fro the above link

    The departments said they had not costed the Opposition’s policies but policy options as provided by Labor.

    This is all Labor claimed from the start. The media reported it inaccurately, and Treasury pointed this out to them. Yet, we have glaring headlines declaring that Treasury is slapping down Labor 😯

    Only in oz, circa 2013 😦

  23. That is also another illustration of the gross failings of the right wingers here Tom.

    VOYAGER was very quick to regurgitate a media line only because he thought it damned Rudd and Labor. Of course the actual big holes in the Coalition costings, which are out there for all to see, are totally ignored by VOYAGER and ilk, proving them the hypocrites they are.

    And their response, if they even bother to give one here? Latest betting odds and trite put downs. They are just not capable of giving any lucid reasons as to why the side they supposedly so strongly support are a superior side with a better leader.

  24. A couple of times in the last 18 months or so Migs has started threads INVITING these people to make the case for Abbott. What transpired reveals a lot about their hollowness. None of them could answer it. Most did not even try. One loser, I don’t know if he still visits here, actually tried to deny that Migs was making the challenge.

    Cuppa, they just sat there like stunned chooks.

  25. ME. Please point out these so called “big holes” out there for all to see. I haven’t seen them, nor have treasury. Do you have a list?

  26. Why do our visitors keep telling us, we are all going to be crying after Septemebr 7.

    I think most will be busting our sides laughing, wondering why the Australian electorate is so stupid. Yes, we will enjoy watching Mr. Abbott trip from day one.

    Yes, we will have plenty to occupy us for another three years, until Labor gets another chance.

    What we will not like, seeing all the good that Labor has achieved going down the gurgler.

    Then, this is nothing new. :Labor always has to bring it reforms in at least twice.

    Yes, there is always another election.

    What are the visitors going to do be doing after the election.

  27. Yes. Tom, it appears what Abbott is telling us, does not add up. We have no idea what he is telling the Parliamentary Budget Office. That is the problem. We are not being told the truth.

    If the figures are now different, what is in the public arena is false.

    There is no evidence, that Labor made up the assumptions, they presented.

    Mr. Hockey, it is easy. Just released the costings and what they have entailed. Green find no problem doing this.

  28. Treasury haven’t seen them because the Coalition refuse to give their costings to Treasury, under the rules bought in by the Coalition by the way.

    Proves there’s substance to them. Just some headlines for you, lot’s more if you search with the only repudiation from the Liberal Party website and their right wing toady sites. Yet even the Liberal site in repudiating it doesn’t give the costings for that $70 billion, it only engages in a negative attack against Labor.

    Economist Saul Eslake predicts Coalition faces $30 billion budget shortfall.
    Coalition under attack over ‘$70 billion black hole’ (SMH)
    Coalition’s ‘$30bn budget gap’ is embarrassing. (The Australian)
    Coalition under attack over ‘$70 billion black hole’ (The Murray Valley Standard)

    The Coalition have made $70 billion in unfunded promises so far, it’s actually a lot more than that now, but let’s stay with their original $70 billion.

    The Coalition have refused to release costings on that $70 billion so until they do it’s a budget hole.

    It’s a fair enough attack as Howard did exactly the same thing to Rudd in the 2007 election, so unless you are stating you believe in double standards and until they release their costings there is a $70 billion hole in their budget.

    So Summo can you give us the Coalition’s costings for their unfunded liabilities and for once engage in lucid debate, or is it that betting odds are all you can get your head around?

  29. Finally something I agree with Summo on.

    Then if you know Abbott is bullshitting, and is the worst at doing it, why are looking forward to him being in power?

  30. Betting odds will do me ME. I took the LNP at $1.50 weeks ago…yehaaaa…party time tonite!….AND next Saturday nite 🙂

    Latest prediction 34 seats!!

    Where are you scaper? I’ll be in Moreton next week. Should catch up and celebrate over a flem cutter or 2.

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  31. Well, one big black hole is what they claim they will saved from dismantling the CEFC. This does not show up in the budget bottom line. This is because it is a business operation, that lends money, that is paid back. Same goes for any savings they save on NBNCo. Yes, and their NBN lite is to be funded the same way.

    They are claiming savings that are not there.

    What about all the new departments that Abbott intends to create or bring back. The special court for the building industry alone, would pay for the School Kids Bonus. There is no evidence, that it did any good, before the Labor dismantled it. no evidence at all. That is, except Abbott’s ideology

    How much are all the audits. productivity commission investigations and green papers going to cost. Nearly all his policy announcement carry a rider, that all are to be exposed to some type of inquiry after the election.
    I believe that Hockey attacked the Departments, demanding that they say, they never costed Liberal policies.

    Yes, that is true. Labor did not claim that.

    If appears they did cost, what Labor presented, the policies and assumptions that Hockey released to the public.

    If one wants Abbott. please take the time to listen to his answers to what he would do with the Syria question.

    No opinion whatever. No answer, as usual. ABC 24

  32. Did Labor claim that the figures released yesterday came from the PBO. I thought they were Treasury figures.

    Listen to what he had to say about Syria. This morning on ABC Faine. he has no idea.

  33. Is releasing the figures towards the end of next week,. Friday, maybe. Definitely after the blackout on ads.

    Very careful with answers. In fact, too careful. Looks shifty. ABC 24

  34. Will legislate to negate all CEF credits. Millions of dollars, to be lost from motor industry alone. This will occur from day one.

  35. The reason that Coalition voters can’t ever state one positive reason for voting for Tony Abbott is because there aren’t any. All they ever do is talk about polls and bookmakers odds and gossip. They seem incapable of discussing anything to do with politics, the economy, foreign affairs, education, health, infrastructure, immigration…in fact all those things that governments DO. It’s no wonder Tony relies on slogans and Rupert relies on photo shopping. It’s picture book politics for morons. See Tony run. They get bored with anything beyond three words. When presented with facts, whether it be about the economy or climate change or whatever, they just say we don’t believe it, they are lying, it’s a conspiracy. It would be amusing except these morons may actually vote in a Prime Minister who would be the greatest humiliation to this country since the bowling underarm incident.

  36. Love example put to Abbott. Two Lebsians on $150 thousand, and intend to have a baby at the same time.

    Yes, they both will get $75,000.,

  37. Abbott is backing off blaming the rises in cost of power prices. Now is claiming, that the rise caused by carbon tax, is less than 10%. Not responsible for the 90% odd that has occurred.

    Asked about the silly idea of buying Indonesian fishing boats. I am sure the Indonesian, will love Australians on the ground, interfering in their country.

    Faine ABC Radio

  38. Could I also point out that the Coalition will not have a majority in the Senate and it is most unlikely that they will be able to do any of the regressive dismantling of reform that they are touting. Tony has also stated he will go to a double dissolution if he can’t get his way. King for a day?

  39. Another is hos costings on NBN lite/fraud. Yes, his inferior NBN lite/fraud will be much more expensive in the long run, Will also create much waste. Those nodes, hooking to the clapped out copper. will have no use, when the inevitable happens, and the fibre foes to the premises.

  40. The biggest waste of the lot, is the captain’s pick, the PPL scheme. One that Abbott said, when first announcing it, will come out of general revenue, when the economy improves.

    Also one much wonder how he is going to get the savings he claims by not replacing PS by natural retribution. To get the numbers he claims, all that leave would have to be on wages of over $400 thousand a year. I suspect, they would be heads of departments, at least.

  41. Yes, he might make some savings by cutting the refugee intake, back to 13,700. Do not know how our near neighbours will take to this cut.

  42. Michael, today’s effort is a typical statement from a biased left-wing person. You don’t like anything that does nor agree with your twisted thinking. Just accept the fact that there are people who hold opposing views and OMG, what if you are the one who is wrong? Where to now?

  43. I don’t like the whole “Well, there’s always another election”. Yes there is, but by the time it comes around the damage has been done and may not be able to be reversed

  44. Curry, our thinking might be twisted, but I do not like the future that Abbott is painting for us.

    I like the idea that Australia is a place of the fair go, and being a good sport. Have trouble with winner take all, and that the end is all that counts, not the means.

    Curry, why is Abbott afraid to let us have those costings. today, not next Friday. Time for us to assess what they mean.

  45. Lynne, I would rather not see Abbott in, but the truth is, it will be the will of the electorate, and under democracy, that is the way it works.

    We have been at this place many times before. Thankfully the country has survived, but not without much damage and hurt.
    Some people need reality to come to their senses.

    Most of what Labor has achieved, since Federation, has had to be bought in more than once.

    What I am saying, we will not be in despair as some who haunt this site believe. Yes, disappointed, but like most do when beaten, get up, dust ourselves off, and live to fight another day.

    It will not be us that is crying for long, but those who put their faith in Abbott. Not that he will be around for that long.

    As for the senate, yes, he could even get his way there. Looks like Sinodinos, one of the Libs calmer heads, could be replaced by Pauline Hanson. That will be one for the books. A senate, control by those further to the right, than Abbott.

  46. So true. I have found them to be very abusive when you present them with any real facts that are true. Some of them even put up the most ridiculous comments to anything I post and you have to try and decipher what they are talking about, it you ask them what they are on about they become abusive. I have often asked if they can tell me why they think our economy is a mess they never have an answer to that and quite often become abusive. Sometimes their comments are hilarious you have to laugh.

  47. Rudd sure has guts, to agree to qanda in his own electorate. With the audience made up of those who live there.

    We know from the Brisbane debate, there where many in the audience from there, that said they will not vote for him in any way.

  48. Bizarre.

    There must have been over two hundred threads written about Abbott here. The speculation of what he would do when he becomes PM, outright distortions of what he has done, what he is doing, wacky conspiracy theories and the people that come here that don’t support the worst government in modern times are stark raving mad???

    Still harping on about that question that was nothing but a diversion. I answered it and I don’t particularly like Abbott. You said that Rudd and Gillard are good PMs. The party kicked both of them out because they were toxic which proves your judgement is flawed. You judge that Abbott will not be a good PM so based on that, Abbott will do a better job than the freaks that have been running the show for the last six years…QED.

    Oh by the way…I don’t consider myself to be of either the left or right. When I disagree with either of these so called sides the automatic reaction is to label me a leftoid or a right wing nut, which is pretty piss weak. And you talk of no logic or debate?

  49. Curry you are more than entitled to hold opposing views. Care to elaborate on what they are? Convince me why a Coalition government would be better for this country. Why would I vote for a party that thinks climate change is crap and that the NBN is for playing video games? Why would I vote for a party that thinks we need to prop up the wealthy at the expense of the poor? Why would I vote for a party that wants to privatise our health and education systems and remove means testing for benefits? Why would I vote for a party that wants to give tax cuts to the rich whilst scrapping the superannuation co-contribution for low income earners and the rise in the superannuation guarantee for all workers? Why would I vote for a party that wants to remove the collective voice of workers by dismantling unions? Why would I vote for a party that wants to stop development of renewable energy and to undo the environmental reforms regarding marine parks and the Murray-Darling? Why would I vote to have a man for Prime Minister who thinks homosexuality is some form of abomination yet who writes a glowing reference for a pedophile priest? Why would I want a PM who seems to think sex appeal is an attribute for a candidate or who embarrasses an apprentice and school girls with his totally inept and very creepy comments?

  50. Labor says it has now submitted 46 of its policies for costings to the Treasury and Department of Finance, while the coalition has submitted none.

    In the latest round of the escalating costings war, Labor campaign spokeswoman Penny Wong said that was in accordance with the Charter of Budget Honesty established by former coalition government prime minister John Howard and treasurer Peter Costello.

    Senator Wong said Treasury and Finance had returned 12 of those policies, affirming Labor’s costings.

    Those were listed on the election costings website.

    ‘The opposition’s page is blank – they have not submitted a single policy for costing,’ she said in a statement.

    The comments followed the opposition’s release of figures showing proposed savings of $31.6 billion, which Labor said showed a $10 billion ‘black hole’.

    But the government’s attack was blunted by statements from the Parliamentary Budget Office and from the secretaries of Treasury and Finance Department, disputing the basis of its black hole claim.

    Labor had sought to cost some opposition policies, such as its plans to reduce the public service by 12,000 places, based on public statements.

    But the officials said differences in key costing assumptions, such as start time, were likely to produce different financial outcomes.

    They did confirm no opposition policies had been costed.

    Opposition campaign spokesman Christopher Pyne said t…………..

    I thinks, Abbott might just be a little lying, He has no intention of releasing any costings,m that lets us in on what he really intends to do. He is very smug when answering questions about costings. He seems to believe he is outsmarting Labor. Suggest, he is treating us voters as fools. And yes, many are letting him get away with it.

  51. Been away this week in the outback, pig hunting. It does not look good for Labor.

    Was think about changing my prediction of Labor seats from 47 to 52. Nah, will hold firm on 47.

  52. So, do you have an opinion on the reportage of the costings saga scaper, and do you think that Labors position has been misrepresented at all here?

  53. Michael I totally agree. The right wing supporters have mastered the art of not saying anything sensible and babbling on, just like the Tea Party of Tony Abbott.

    Watching Tony Abbott’s Tea Party candidates evade answering questions by aggressively interrupting their opponents or the questioner, or diverting the question to some irrelevant issue has been immensely frustrating, but an insight into their lack of intelligence and the fact that all they have to offer the electorate is a far right, small minded, small hearted ideological agenda.

    To add to that is the fact that many Liberal candidates have been ordered not to attend community forums to face public scrutiny…the first step to a fascist state!

  54. 200 threads as you say, but not one from you, telling us why Abbott will be good for us and the country, Not one fact from you. As for pig shooting, do not believe you. That sport takes guts. If one can call it sport. At least it is getting rid of vermin.

    Scaper. pretty please. Just one comment, telling us why you support Abbott. Just one will do.

    scaper, all you are good at, is name calling, nothing else.

  55. Tommy, haven’t an informed position on the latest controversy as of yet. As usual, during campaigns the truth is somewhere in the middle but I see the sites I monitor are abuzz.

  56. As usual, during campaigns the truth is somewhere in the middle

    That is a bold assumption, especially when ltdnews is involved

  57. scaper, the wild pig I have seen in Queensland, I would not have liked to be around, on the ground, Yes, OK if one can see them. Not so, if they came out of that bush at you. A good dog does help.

    Then I suspect, you never left the safety of the vehicle that took you into the bus.

    You are bullshit.

  58. Wong ABC 24. The problem is that Abbott will not allow costings to be did.

    Costings were on stated policies. If different, Hockey can come out today, and released his figures.

    No question that Abbott has to make more cuts, and it is clear, that he is not going to tell us what they are.

    Wong accusing Hockey of lying. Lodged 46 policies. Policies before that, are found in economic documents.

    Costings based on the stated policies of the Opposition.

  59. Wong needs to directly challenge the headlines in todays paper FU. The meme is out there, it needs to put to rest!

  60. “Costings based on the stated policies of the Opposition.”

    That’s the entire point Fu. It’s all anyone at the moment has to go on and so far the Coalition’s promises add up to well over $70 billion in unfunded liabilities and their supposed savings, which are pie the sky stuff with some double dipping, nowhere near covers half that amount let alone the whole of it.

    So until they release their costings and they are legitimate then anyone can rightly state they have a $70 billion hole because they do. This is because of their own charter of honesty bought in by Howard and still extant today, and they can’t very well say one standard applies to Labor and a different one to them, especially when they (rightly) attacked Rudd on this very matter in 2007.

  61. Being at one with the pig, but it seems the pig didn’t teach anything, the same narky sniping and pettiness still evident.

  62. Barry Jones …

    “I have been involved in politics for a long time – far too long – but I have never observed such levels of loathing, personal hatred for political figures. Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Windsor have been subject to unprecedentedly vindictive attacks, as has Tony Abbott to a degree and John Howard in his time. It is one of the ugliest factors in our public life.

    Despite the exponential increases in public education and access to information in the past century, the quality of political debate appears to have become increasingly unsophisticated, appealing to the lowest common denominator of understanding. Does anyone’s vote change after seeing a Prime Minister or Opposition Leader in a supermarket or factory? I am open to persuasion but I doubt it.”

  63. No scaper. in fact I am having a good day. Enjoy watching that interview of Abbott with John Faine this morning. Showed what a creep the man is.

    No matter what happens next Saturday, does not change the fact, Abbott is not capable of being PM.

    Even our second pick, outstrips Abbott by miles.

    No scaper, a good day indeed.

    Rudd now on ABC 24.

  64. Will be fun, watching many that visit here, justify the action’s of Abbott, if the country is unlucky enough to have him as PM.

    Yep. I think we may enjoy politics for many a long moon to come.

  65. Has Hockey been lying. It appears no Opposition policies have been lodged with the office of budget honesty.

    I am confused in this matter.

  66. but it looks like the left have the affliction.

    I’m not mad, I am angry that our political process has been so corrupted by our media that they will lie to protect the likes of tabot.

  67. So Greg Hunt announces a 20 year plan for the Antarctic. He will spend 38 million on Hobart airport. These are his priorities.

    “The 20 Year Australian Antarctic Strategic Plan will address how Australia can remain engaged, active and visible in the region. It will provide the blueprint for the future with a focus on:
    •ensuring robust and reliable access to the Australian Antarctic Territory;
    •extending Australia’s reach across the Australian Antarctic Territory;
    •committing to undertaking nationally and globally significant science;
    •committing to exercising influence in the region through the Antarctic Treaty System; and
    •expanding the role of Tasmania as the gateway for Antarctic expeditions and scientific research.”

    ummmmm…..environment anyone?

  68. Just saw this on the oo

    In an unprecedented rebuke in the heat of an election campaign, the heads of Treasury, Finance and the Parliamentary Budget Office publicly repudiated the Prime Minister’s accusation of “$10 billion fraud” in the Coalition’s costings, saying the numbers he used did not bear out the claim.

    Anyone able to confirm where the media release says “the numbers he used did not bear out the claim.”

  69. you didn’t need to go all the way to the outback for a few pigs.

    Nah, the convoy of incontinence brings ’em in for ya 😉

    btw, anyone been able to highlight what the oo claimed the media release from Treasury said. I still can’t find it?

  70. It’s really just a confirmation of this post.

    The media make up a lie, I ask specific questions of people about it, and all they can do is talk about shooting pigs

    gutless, not madness, I reckon

  71. Hey Tommy, I hunt alone. When the first pig is taken I strip off, cover myself in pig blood and then roll in the dust.

    Do you want to come on my next hunting trip? It’s fun.

  72. Keep on supporting this post scapes 😉

    Meanwhile, the media continue to lie, and you are quite happy with that.

  73. Summo, you’ve got something there. I’m in the wrong business, should be hunting the pigs and sending them to Christmas Island to feed the aspiring Australians. Once the word got out the boats would certainly stop.

  74. Yes, I agree. They have nothing worth considering because their political ideology is bereft of ideas!

  75. But Tommy, I am on topic…the title of this thread is ‘Stark raving mad’.

    You can scapegoat all you like, blaming the media for Labor’s woeful campaign. Speaking of scapegoating…nah, could be used against me in a court of law.


  76. blaming the media for Labor’s woeful campaign.

    Actually, I’m blaming the media for the media woeful campaign coverage.

    The war of words over Labor’s black hole claims escalated on Friday, with a defiant Treasurer Chris Bowen and Deputy Prime Minister Anthony Albanese insisting the government’s claims were correct – despite the secretaries of Treasury and Finance taking the highly unusual step late on Thursday of publicly denying that they had examined opposition policies.

    Mr Bowen was adament on Friday that ”we stand by every word that we said yesterday”.

    ”In the press conference we said that we asked the Treasury and department of finance to cost these things before the election. We said that. But we also said that assumptions can change the costings. We said that,” Mr Bowen said.

    The Treasurer said the two department secretaries had simply affirmed that Labor had asked the departments to cost the policies before the election.

    ”If the opposition is so sure of their facts here, they can clear this up today by releasing their costings.”

    Earlier, Mr Albanese also stood firm on the government’s claims.

    ”Depending upon – all that Treasury and Finance have said is, if you change the assumptions, the details, the period of time of what have you, then you might get different outcomes,” he told Channel 9 on Friday morning. ”And that’s correct. Based upon the assumptions of what they’re saying, on the opposition’s own words, they’re the figures.”

    Read more:

    Note the bolded bits. It’s within their same story, yet they still are running the line that Treasury is rebutting Labors claim. They are not, they are rebutting the media claim. But the media refuse to acknowledge that. And continue to verbal Labor, while letting the opposition get away with outright lies.

    And you are happy with this.

  77. Tommy, I’m over the election campaign and not up to speed of what transpired yesterday.

    It seems that the Murdoch and Fairfax media are going hard on the issue but believe most have made up their minds so it is neither here or there.

    The reality is I don’t care.

  78. Abbott out once again, supporting those who take advantage of tax loop holes. All that has been asked that those who purchased cars under th FBT, obey the rules.

    There has been no change to the FBT. What is being asked, is they prove the car is used for work, as is what is required to be eligible for the tax break.

    Hockey once again, lying about what happened yesterday, and what treasury really said

    Hockey, prove Bowen a lie. Release the costings.

  79. Speaking of stark raving mad…I see my number one fan is lurking. Gee, brags about drinking a bottle and a half of Scotch in one sitting. One would either be dead or an alcoholic to pull off such a feat!

    I know, an alcoholic with a dead brain. Explains the floor sweeping position.

  80. Why are you bringing the issue up in a thread that accuses the right of being stark raving mad???

    Because, as I said in my first post, the media are madder than the wingnuts!

    Mind you, your effort today brings that statement under scrutiny

    Why are you commenting on a political blog when you ‘really don’t care’?

  81. Sadly, this sums it up well.

    “…………The choice between a man with a defective manifesto and one with a defective personality is not appealing—but Mr Rudd gets our vote, largely because of Labor’s decent record. With deficits approaching, his numbers look more likely to add up than Mr Abbott’s. Despite his high-handed style, Mr Rudd is a Blairite centrist. A strategic thinker about Asia, he has skills that will be useful, especially as Australia has to balance its economic dependence on China with its security dependence on America. It would be nice if he revived his liberal approach to asylum-seekers. And, who knows, he may even live up to his promise to be less vile to his colleagues……………….

  82. A Liberal voter explains it for you – he’s MUCH more articulate than any of the other right-whingers here 😉 😆

  83. Meanwhile, not all conservatives are mad

    Of the country’s two main parties, the Liberal Party, now in opposition in a Liberal-National coalition, is the natural home of The Economist’s vote: a centre-right party with a tradition of being pro-business and against big government.

    The choice between a man with a defective manifesto and one with a defective personality is not appealing—but Mr Rudd gets our vote, largely because of Labor’s decent record.

  84. Bacchus, have you any idea, what he is saying, Not for families.

    Maybe scaper and co can interpret for us

  85. Those that come here to troll, seem to ignore the fact, we are definitely not in love with Rudd, but find him a hundred times more appealing that Abbott and his mob.

    Even with Labor’s second rung crew, they leave the Opposition for dead.

  86. Bacchus, have you any idea, what he is saying

    Absolutely none Fu, but he still makes much more sense than the other right-whingers here 😆

  87. I have a feeling that many MPs gave up and left parliament, when Rudd came back, not because of Rudd, but because they cannot stand the stink, that politics has become today.

    They have had enough.

  88. I think the saddest thing about this election, is the number of good people, from both sides that have given up.

    They appeared to have move out of politics, without even bothering to look back. All have disappeared into the ether.

    It is really concern, that most left behind does not give one any great hope for the future.

    One can only hope this election throws up some talent. but what we ave seen so far, especially from the right, gives one little hope.

  89. Politics today, seems to involve knocking down anyone that shows any talent. I am talking, politics in general here.

  90. ………..There should be appropriate recognition of the major achievement of the 43rd Australian House of Representatives, the much traduced “hung parliament”, which lasted its full term, and passed 580 bills, 87% of them with Opposition support, including the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the Gonski reforms. Julia Gillard deserves credit for maintaining support from independents and never facing a censure motion.

    I have been involved in politics for a long time – far too long – but I have never observed such levels of loathing, personal hatred for political figures. Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Windsor have been subject to unprecedentedly vindictive attacks, as has Tony Abbott to a degree and John Howard in his time. It is one of the ugliest factors in our public life.

    Despite the exponential increases in public education and access to information in the past century, the quality of political debate appears to have become increasingly unsophisticated, appealing to the lowest common denominator of understanding. Does anyone’s vote change after seeing a Prime Minister or Opposition Leader in a supermarket or factory? I am open to persuasion but I doubt it…

  91. Does it not concern anyone, that this election campaign has taken place with no contact with the public. Public is kept hundreds metres way, by high fences or the police. Sometimes both.

  92. ……………Does Joe Hockey really believe what he is saying? I hope not. He certainly would not want to be questioned, or sign an affidavit, about it. But I suspect he might say: “the rules of the game have changed. In politics, one can say anything – whatever it takes to win”. My side of politics is not spotless in this area either: Graham Richardson’s book Whatever It Takes set the standard………….

  93. Oh Tommy, Tommy, Tommy…twisting words again?

    In reality, I just don’t care for the media conspiracy theory. Not stark raving mad enough…but I’m willing to try.

  94. So the ALP had costings done on what the coalition said it would do. And released them. The error here seems to’ve been the assumption that the coalition would do any such thing.

  95. “The New South Wales corruption watchdog has recommended criminal charges be laid against former state Labor minister Ian Macdonald over a second controversial mining licence.

    The Independent Commission Against Corruption today handed down its findings from Operation Acacia, the last of four high-profile inquiries into ministers in the former NSW Labor government.

    In findings handed to the NSW Parliament, ICAC Commissioner David Ipp found former union official John Maitland and businessmen Craig Ransley, Andrew Poole and Michael Chester also acted corruptly.

    Mr McDonald, Mr Maitland, Mr Ransley and Mr Poole have been referred to the state’s Director of Public Prosecutions for possible criminal charge.”

    Just love the criminal under workings of Labor. Very stark!

  96. Yes Mr. Abbott. No problems that one can see with Fair Work. No increase in strikes. Wages steady. Why does the pendulum needs to swing back to employers.


    The three claims of Bill Shorten regarding wages, industrial conflict and labour productivity are broadly correct. Any errors were minor and were in his favour at least as often as against it.

    Wage costs are growing at slightly less than he claimed, while wage pressures shown in current agreements are slightly higher, but receding.

    His comparison of industrial disputes under the Coalition and Labor years was essentially correct. An argument could be made about the choice of time period, but a different period would still show a major fall in disputation.

    His claims on productivity growth slightly understated the period of time through which Australia has been experiencing successive growth quarters.

  97. But you did, Tommy. You inferred I did not care for politics and asked why I bother commenting on a politics blog.

    Doing a good job of the stark raving mad thing, yourself.


  98. The sad thing is that in a Dumbocracy it only takes two idiots to outvote a same person.
    I take some reassurance in that one of those ranters will have his/her vote cancelled out by mine.

  99. Another black hole,

    “…………….Analysis released today by energy and carbon emission analysts Reputex reinforces increasing doubts about the credibility of the Coalition’s budget costing for its climate change policies.

    Analysis by Monash University and engineering and energy consulting firm Sinclair Knight Merz conservatively estimated that the Coalition would blow out its budget by $4 billion to meet its commitment to reduce emissions by 5 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020.

    Reputex’s analysis finds the budget blowout would be more like $35 billion.

    The reasons Reputex found the costs would be so much higher than the Monash-SKM study are not entirely clear from comparing the reports.

    One factor is that Reputex assumes emissions grow…………..”

  100. Yep. we will indeed find out after the election. Seems to be good enough for many.

    “………..The Liberal candiate for Gilmore Ann Sudmalis has told an election forum she can’t respond to a question about workplace policy until after the September election.

    When quizzed, Ms Sudmalis reacted angrily and wouldn’t say whether a Coalition government would re-introduce the controversial ‘Work Choices’ legislation.

    Ms Sudmalis likened the question to fiction and archaeology.

    “We are actually not talking about a Stephen King fiction here, we’re not digging up bones,” she said.

    “Any workplace relations legislation is on the table after the election not before, so sorry I can’t answer your question…….

    Yes, scaper I am cut and pasting. Just scroll past, if it is above your comprehension.

    scaper, most of the cuts, are from sites, that are far from left wing.

  101. Liz Burke ‏@lizeburke 29 Aug
    Look at moi RT @bkjabour Love this photo of Tony Abbott and his COS Peta Credlin in the Australian today.

  102. at least in the old days with the Tele and the Herald Sin you could wipe your arse with it, now you wouldn’t put it anywhere near your butt

  103. For the last four elections, it has been the last minute swinging youth vote, that has won elections. Hope this is true, as I believe that both CEF and NBNCo, would be high on their list.

  104. zwetschgen, would not trust it today. Shocked to find out, the print editions are worse than what we see on the web.

  105. Rudd press conference not quite to plan

    by: By Ehssan Veiszadeh
    From: AAP
    August 30, 2013 5:22PM

    Increase Text Size
    Decrease Text Size

    IT was the press conference from hell.

    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd was addressing the media shortly after speaking at a union event.

    About 15 people from different age groups stood behind him – presumably to reflect Labor’s appeal to all Australians – at the Unions WA office in Perth on Friday.

    But the room was hot and lacked air flow and sweat began to bead on Mr Rudd’s forehead.

    For most of the 45-minute press conference Mr Rudd was defending his claim the coalition’s $31.6 billion worth of interim budget savings underestimated the impact of its policies by $10 billion.

    I can see no higher political fraud committed against the Australian people,” Mr Rudd said.

    He believes the coalition won’t release its full costings until a day or two before the September 7 election, leaving it little time to respond.

    Then a young girl, aged about 10, who had been standing for most of his remarks, collapsed.

    She was given first aid, and once recovered, offered a seat.

    One journalist also began to buckle under the heat and walked away as Mr Rudd spoke.

    Mr Rudd, looking annoyed, reminded the reporter he was answering his question. The journalist said he was feeling unwell.

    To make matters worse, a Labor staffer accidentally turned off the lights in the room, leading the prime minister to briefly pause the press conference.

    If that wasn’t enough, a radio microphone fell off the lectern Mr Rudd was using.

    From AAP.


    It’s all over for Labor. Enough to drive a lefty stark raving mad! Prime Minister Tony Abbott has a ring to it. And you all thought that he would never be PM. How wrong you were.

  106. ………..Then there’d be the usual pantomime about The Budget Is Worse Than We Thought, which will do for all but a few of the policies that Abbott has announced over the past month. The slow media is yet to discover Christopher Pyne’s dalliance with James Ashby while Mal Brough gets screwed, not to mention Arthur Sinodinos’ with the Obeid family; they think they’ll cover this All In Good Time, underestimating the extent to which time is against them. The Coalition doesn’t have the deep reserves that enables a third of the Cabinet to fall away and keep up with the competition. The press gallery are wrong to assume they do, or that it needn’t come to that.

    Yes, no depth there in the Opposition to fall back on. We could be lucky and see Mirabella and Pyne go. They say Sinodinos could be outed by Pauline. That would be big loss to the Opposition.

    Do not agree with his views, but is one of the few Opposition members, that has some ability

  107. It appears the department heads started there letters off with their concerns with the reporting of. They then went on to repeat what Labor said, that the government has presented the Coalitions stated policies. At no time was it alleged, they were Coalition assumptions.

    If what the Coalition put out in the public arena is in correct. Maybe they should let us in on the truth.

  108. Believe Rudd spent over an hour on another venue, answering questions from all comers. In fact, he went onto announce his mental health policy. Was supposed to be very successful.

    scaper, you are old enough, not to believe everything you hear, especially from OM.

  109. Zippity do da, zippity ay, my oh…..whoops sorry, just having an early practise singing session for 8th Sept.

    I see the alps are out to $13 and still drifting.

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  110. Ehssan Veiszadeh Lies To Australia!

    Posted on August 7, 2013 by archiearchive FCD

    Who is Ehssan Veiszadeh?

    He is the journalist who wrote this article in today’s edition which may or may not have been sourced from AAP.

    Why do I say that he lies?

    Because I have been keeping a close watch on asylum seeker arrivals as reported in the Main Stream Media. His numbers do not gel with what I have been able to see.

  111. Quoting some lying Murdoch scum’s take of an interview is hardly revealing. Sounds like he is incapable of following the substance but is engrossed in technical difficulties. Sorta guy that no doubt found make-upgate enthralling.

  112. Great job there Ehssan…he didn’t even mention what the speech was about. Journalism at it’s finest….though it seems to satisfy scaper’s need for news.

  113. Bacchus @ 3.11pm… thank you so much for the utube post, haven’t had such a laugh in ages… have shared it with others. Keep up the fabulous work!

  114. KL all your link provided is proof that the current govt is unable to accurately record anything. How hard can it be to count heads on a boat?

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  115. ummmmmm what is said was that the journalist who scaper gets his news and views from is a liar. But I guess asking you to read an article and understand it would interrupt your gum-chewing.

  116. Do a search for:
    YouTube Australian Sex Party Campaign Ad 2013

    Language warning, but very funny 😀

  117. My mistake. My other mistake has been wasting my time reading the drivel you write let alone responding to it. As has been continually pointed out, not ONE of you can carry on a coherent discussion about anything political. I will leave you and scaper to swap pig squealing, backy chawing stories and bookies odds. I prefer to converse with someone who can contribute something to the conversation….yanno…someone I might learn something from.

  118. They come to enjoy the lack of censorship they cannot experience in media aligned with their own ideology.

  119. IMO, people like Summo take advantage of the good nature and lack of censorship he cannot get on sites like or Fairfax to troll . Same with Scaper to a large extent.

    While i also disagree with people like Tweed and Neil, at least they have something to say and often bring facts and figures to the table. Summo is here largely to troll and the site is worse for it.

  120. BE..thats is it exactly it! When nothing else feeds your thirst, be personal. What did I ever do to you? cya later …footy is on.


  121. “When nothing else feeds your thirst, be personal.”

    “KL..sounds like u need a cuddle.

    Good night sweety”

    I just showed that exchange to my husband. His response was yeah good luck with THAT mate. That approach works SO well with her.

    Thankfully I married a good man.

  122. It’s my first time here and I am enjoying reading some of the articles. I suppose I am what you would refer to as a swinging voter. My favourites of the Labor term have been the NDIS and Gonski (or whatever it is called this week) along with the not often mentioned but I think important change to cigarette packaging laws and cigarette tax increases. I thought Nicola Roxon was excellent in the way she went about taking on the tobacco companies.

    One of the issues I am interested in hearing about although not affecting me personally is same sex marriage debate. Why wouldn’t Labor have introduced same sex marriage when they had an atheist PM and do people really believe a conscience vote introduced by Rudd will get anywhere or merely a vote grabber?”

  123. I think you may have that wrong on same sex marriage Just wondering.

    It was Gillard who was going to allow a conscience vote whilst Rudd is going to introduce a bill within 100 days of winning government to legalise it.

  124. Do you seriously think he will introduce it though? What are your thoughts on the first point of why Gillard wouldn’t introduce it though? Thanks for the correction. After I wrote that I thought I might have gotten it the wrong way round.


  125. Just Wondering, at least the former PM allowed a conscience vote on the issue whereas Abbott’s ethics are completely against it. I notice that Christopher Pyne chose as his venue to announce Liberal Party policy a school which maintains that gay relationships are “an abomination”. I would therefore expect no joy on the issue whatsoever from the LNP.

    However, as far as Ms Gillard goes and I do not agree with her reasoning, she stated that she does not believe in the institution of marriage per se hence her conscience would not allow her to vote for an institution which she does not believe in.

  126. Hi Carol, thanks for your reply. I think this is where we are at. I dont think either party will support same sex marriage, another indicator of the lack of difference in these parties

  127. What baffles me is how any liberal voter is prepared to vote without seeing the terms and conditions (i.e. costings, etc) attached to the agreement they are signing off on/voting for.

  128. Rudd just more or less said, that the polling he has seen, means the election will end up much closer than they think.

    Just wonder what effect does people being told every few minutes, that the polls say, Labor is finished, will have on their vote.

    It could rub many the wrong way. One only needs small number, in the right place to change their votes.

    It will be interesting to see what the PBO says about the Lib’s, when published in thirty days after the election.

    Yes, those red or green books are released.

  129. Note: The Libs no longer use the terrible debt or deficit word. No longer, that we have a budget emergency.

    What has changed. All we are hearing from them now, is take us on trust.

  130. Burka is a very affronting type of attire.. Backing King’s comments.

    Not commenting on ,micro chips and shooting them Not getting into micro detail. Now, why not came out, and say
    , no I do not agree with what the ex copper has said.

    Now accusing Labor of running smear contest against King How is repeating what the man has siad, a smear campaign.

  131. Now according to Abbott, MINING COMPANIES SHOULD NOT have to show their actions do not destroy the environment.

    The question was ab out nursing homes. It appears his answer, is to remove the essential paper work for them, to improve patient care.

    Lakita once again mentioned. Back to the slogans. Still nothing new. Louise coming back from overseas, to join the troop,. No mentioned, that she has been working for the FM.

  132. Not slogans, this is what one needs. At least we will get them 30 days after the election. Economist know nothing about Australia.

    “Mr Abbott is also expected to withhold Parliamentary Budget Office costing detail when he releases his final bottom line figure, meaning voters will only get the full picture 30 days after the election when the PBO publishes its comprehensive repor”.

    Read more:

  133. All answers, whether it is the dairy or any other industry, is build a stronger economy. More slogans.

  134. LOVO, Abbott’s answers weak in relation of what King said. Very weak.

    Now defending 457’s.

    Has backed off a little in his answers. Saying if there are rorts, have to be dealt with.

  135. Tony Abbott stretches at Castle Hill during his morning run in Townsville. (AAP: Alan Porritt).
    by Joel Zander 9:06 AM

  136. Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 22m
    OL Tony Abbott says London based Economist magazine probably lacks real experience of Australia hence its endorsement of Rudd. #AusVotes
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 24m
    OL Tony Abbott says a Lesbian couple having two babies (each) would both get ppl but twins wouldn’t. #AusVotes
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 26m
    OL Tony Abbott says red tape is hardly going to stop abuse being detected and resolved in aged care. #AusVotes
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 29m
    OL Tony Abbott – on aged care – we’ll have more to say in the next few days. Everywhere we want to cut red tape. #AusVotes
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 30m
    OL Tony Abbott won’t address ‘micro-detail’ of candidate Ry King’s comments but praises his integrity and record. #AusVotes
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 31m
    OL Tony Abbott says burqua isn’t sort of attire he’d like to see on the streets if Australia but its a free country. #AusVotes
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 31m
    OL Tony Abbott – $40m will be spent on funding legal aid for asylum seekers – coalition will stop it.
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 33m
    OL Tony Abbott – if you come illegally you can’t expect to get legal aid. #asylum
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 34m
    OL Tony Abbott – the last few paces are most dangerous – re fighting for Govt and climbing mt Everest analogy. Tough week ahead. #AusVotes
    Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke 38m
    OL Tony Abbott – its the natural instinct of all Australian Govts to support our allies. (Re past military conflicts and syria)
    ABC News 24 ‏@ABCNews24 41m
    Oppn Leader @TonyAbbottMHR is campaigning in the Central Qld seat of Capricornia. Watch live #ABCNews24 #ausvotes
    Retweeted by Latika Bourke

  137. Morrison now on. Wonder if he spend his time. dreaming up nasty things he can do,. to refugees. One would think he hates them

    Wonder how many people really care abut what he has to say.

    How many boats not coming now?

  138. Poor Morrison, he must have missed out on that Abbott has moved on from budget melt down. That is yesterdays slogan.

    Gee, we also have Brandis. Now who would take his legal advice.

    Now trying to scare up fear, that giving refugees legal advice, takes away from advice us Australians can get.

    Talk about politics of the envious.

  139. Has Abbott really changed over his life. Suspect not.

    “…………….ubsequently, correspondence came to light between Abbott and his mentor Santamaria, dating to the time when Abbott had decided against life in the priesthood, and was moving towards politics.
    The most interesting of the letters comes from late 1987, when Abbott was still a reluctant Labor voter, and trying to work out how he could carry the socially conservative values of Santamaria’s National Civic Council (NCC) into public life.
    As recorded in a lengthy piece on the letters, “Abbott confessed he was sick of the NCC criticising unwelcome social and political trends from the sidelines. He wanted to change society by working from within.”
    These are not the values of the majority of the modern Liberal Party. These are the values of someone who accords primacy to his conservative social views.
    But he was indecisive about which of the major political parties was the better vehicle for carrying forward those views.
    In his correspondence with Santa, Abbott worried that if the ALP were not “dominated” by Santamaria-style ideas, it would succumb to “the grip of the Left or of soulless pragmatists”.
    The Liberal Party, on the other hand, was “without soul, direction or inspiring leadership”, and its members were divided between “surviving trendies and the more or less simple-minded advocates of the free market”.
    Well, we all know now that Abbott decided to go with the soulless Libs.
    But as we come to the end of this election campaign, which he will almost certainly win, it’s worth going back to the beliefs of values Abbott.
    The NCC cites five “primacies”, which speak to its social conservatism, its hostility to the economic prescriptions of both the socialist left and the free-market right, and its strong belief in “Judeo-Christian values”.
    Now, look at Abbott’s paid parental leave scheme, his relatively moderate position on industrial relations, his declaration this week that notwithstanding what he called a “Budget emergency”, he is prepared to take a decade if necessary to bring the Budget back to surplus.
    These are not the values of the majority of the modern Liberal Party. These are the values of someone who accords primacy to his conservative social views.
    One gets the feeling there is still much – apart from his policy costings – which Abbott is hiding. And one might wonder whether, once he has won the election, things will be revealed which will surprise the rationalist right of his own party.
    Of course we can’t be sure yet, but every so often we get little clues to the continued existence of the old values Abbott.
    Like the education policy launch at a Christian fundamentalist school. It’s like every now and then, he can’t resist the urge to stick it up both the secular/humanist left and the reptilian right…..”

    Abbott dies nothing, that does not have meaning. Why a strongly fundamentalist Christian school. What ks the message he is trying to send.

    ABC24. Forum Lesbian… rights. Dreyus, Dwyer Brandt

    Title too long.

  140. Half the Senate is up for re-election every three years.

    You can vote for your state or territory’s senators in one of two ways:

    Above the line: Simply put a 1 in the box of the party you support, and that party will decide all your other preference votes for you.

    Below the line: Number all the candidates in order (as with your vote for the House of Representatives). You must put a number in every box, or your vote will not be counted

    To vote for an MP in your seat, you must fill out your ballot paper by numbering all the candidates in order of preference.

    If you like the Labor candidate best, write 1 in their box. If you like the Greens second best, put them as no 2. You must number every candidate; if you do not, the vote becomes “informal” (spoiled) and does not count.

    The major political parties produce “how to vote” cards reco

  141. … You must put a number in every box, or your vote will not be counted

    Wrong! The journalist is wrong. But I am not surprised.

  142. You are right Col, that only applies to State politics where any mistake below the line invalidates the ballot.

    In Federal politics the AEC allows for innocent mistakes below the line and counts the ballot as valid up until the mistake then discards everything after it.

  143. I didn’t like Gillard not putting in legislation to legalise it but instead going the long way round through a conscience vote, which still would have ended up with it legalised eventually but with her being able to say she was against it.

    She never gave a valid reason for her anti-gay marriage stance, just the same “not traditional” argument that doesn’t hold a drop of water. I was disappointed with her on this matter.

    Rudd said he will bring it in within his first 100 days I believe he will do so. I think he’s learnt his lesson on back flipping on the greatest moral challenge to face us.

  144. I heard Bob Carr this morning saying that for your vote to be valid (House of Reps) you must number every square. I think you have it wrong way round ME

  145. Why does Morrison assume, giving refugees access to legal advice, automatically slows the system up.

    From my point of view, the Opposite could be true. The advice they could get, is the assessment in legal.

    It is not my experience, that legal advisers go to court, for the fun of it. Most least want some chance of winning.

    Just another effort of Morrison and Brandis to demonise these people more, sand stir up hate in our society.

  146. I should have said Senate Kaye Lee. Can’t find the original Crikey article that shows how you can deliberately make a mistake below the line, e.g. 1 2 3 4 5 5 6 7 etc. or 1 2 3 4 5 5 7 8 etc. to stop preferences going to a party you don’t want any preferences to go to. The AEC ruling I have found is along the lines of what Col stated.

    Some Senate ballot papers in this year’s federal election may contain over 100 candidates and up to 50 parties or groups (depending on how many run in each jurisdiction). Voters can vote for parties above the line but not for ungrouped independents or single candidates. All voters can also vote below the line (their own choice), and the Australian Electoral Commission expects these voters to vote for every candidate sequentially with no mistakes.

    However, voters below the line do not have to vote for every single candidate to make a formal vote. To lessen the number of informal votes the AEC accepts that 10% of the candidates shown on the ballot may not be numbered and the vote still count if the rest are sequential; or if a mistake is made in sequencing up to three numbers can be changed (by the AEC returning officer) to make the vote formal. Hence, voting below the line requires voters to vote for at least 90% of candidates shown on the ballot (which could be up to 70-90 sequential numbers if current predictions are accurate); and not make more than three mistakes in the sequential order (ie, missing out a certain number in the sequential order). The intention is to help the voter (who may be aged, ESL, non-numerate, etc) cast a formal vote; but it can also reduce the informal votes recorded for the main parties which could affect their later public funding.

  147. Yes you must number every square in the HoR elections for it to be valid. The Senate is a bit more complicated. I’ve provided the link to Antony Green on another thread.

  148. “I notice that Christopher Pyne chose as his venue to announce Liberal Party policy a school which maintains that gay relationships are “an abomination”. I would therefore expect no joy on the issue whatsoever from the LNP.”

    That is doubly hypocritical considering he has had a fling with James Ashby.

  149. you must number every square in the HoR elections for it to be valid

    Actually, you can leave one square blank, as long as all of the other squares are marked correctly. The test of formality is whether the intention of the voter is clear.

    House of Representatives guidelines
    Consecutive series of numbers
    A House of Representatives ballot paper is only formal if the voter has indicated a first preference and consecutively numbered all boxes. A number in the series may not be repeated or skipped.

    If one box is left blank and all other boxes have been numbered in a consecutive sequence starting with the number ‘1’, the ballot paper is formal.

    Alterations to numbers will not make a ballot paper informal, provided the voter’s intention is clear, for example a number can be crossed out and another number written beside it.

    Source: Australian Electoral Commission Scrutineers Handbook

  150. I love this mantra, I will decide who will become Prime Minister of your country and the circumstances in which Tony Abbott becomes Prime Minister, say’s American media tycoon Rupert Murdoch.

  151. There’s another Crikey article a couple of weeks ago Col about someone who got jailed for two years during the Howard years for telling people how to (legitimately) screw up a ballot to stop preference flows to the two majors. For his troubles they changed the law and jailed him under some other obscure charge.

    He has found another way of doing it and the AEC article that allows it is quoted.

    I’ve searched Crikey and they’ve either taken it down or I haven’t looked in the right places yet.

  152. Still confused. It appears one should play safe. Put the one above the line, as well as each number below. Especially with 110 names on that bit of paper.

  153. Bacchus, with my eyes, I think it is going to be above the line. Good luck to those who try.

    The Senate. I believe is going to throw up some funny results.

    Fear that many will be unknown, and from the fundamental right. Scary

  154. The two major parties want above the line voting, it greatly favours them. Many of the odd small parties below the line are setup by the major parties with the idea of making the vote so cumbersome that most only vote above the line. Also if they are selected they can mean a small preference gain for them.

    Possum had four suggestions to improve this situation as it’s only going to get worse each election but of course the two major parties will never bring in anything that takes away their dominance.

    Thanks for the voting links, very handy.

  155. Fed Up: We only have an either/or choice. That is Tick the Box on the top OR individually tick each box below the line. To do as you suggest will result in a donkey vote, or an illegible vote.

  156. I have the ballot papers in front of me as I am going to have a Postal Vote. Please note that it states.


    ABOVE THE LINE: By placing the single figure 1 in one AND ONLY ONE of these squares to indicate the voting ticket you wish to adopt as your vote


    BELOW THE LINE: By placing the numbers 1 to 97 in the order of your preference.


  157. Hi cassilva48,

    The Commonwealth Electoral Act includes specific provisions relating to the formality of ballot papers for Senate elections (box 2.1).8 If a voter chooses to vote both above the line and below the line and completes both sections formally, the below the line section takes precedence.9

    ( )

    The Senate ballot paper has two sections. An elector can either
    vote above-the-line or below-the-line, but not both. However, if the elector completes both sections formally, the below-the-line section takes precedence.

    ( )

    So putting a 1 above the line AND filling out all boxes below the line is insurance against your below the line vote being informal due to errors. If your below the line vote is a formal vote, that’s what counts. If it is deemed to be informal, your above the line selection is used…

  158. I suspect the one above the line will not be taken into account, if the one below is incorrect. Needs to be cleared up. The wording does not appear to say, if one is wrong the other will be taken into account.

  159. It’s implied in the wording Fu…

    if the elector completes both sections formally, the below-the-line section takes precedence.

    That implies that if the below the line is informal, but the above the line is formal, the above the line will be counted…

  160. Abbott only mentioned “carbon tax’ 41 times. It did seem to be many more times. That was in the first 15 minutes of his speech. Just put the counter prove the transcripts.

    Morrison now on with Lyndal Curtis, saying the buy back does not work, the way he says. Morrison getting more bizarre.

    We have had Abbott today, saying he will not be lobbing up to Indonesia, as he needs to wait until invited,

    He has followed up, with he will not be buying drones. I though these were essential for their plan.

    Morrison, is now saying, he has had discussions while in Opposition. Abbott, said, that one cannot make decisions with the defence or other countries, while in Opposition. Which man is telling the truth.

    Nothing about Burke’s concerns, that Morrison is sending a message to the boat smugglers, that TPV will be available from next week.

    Burke wants Morrison, to withdraw that statement, and tell the boat smugglers, that none will end up in Australia.

    That there will be no visa, of any kind available.

  161. I seen what Antony Green said. Also seen conflicting advice. I think I will play it safe, a just put 1 above the line.

    Not trying to be argumentative. Too many other important matter to address.


  163. OK cassilva48 – I’m wrong, Antony Green is wrong, the AEC publication, “Electoral Pocketbook May 2011” is wrong, and the Key Issues paper from the parliamentary inquiry into Bob Brown’s proposed amendments to the electoral act also have it wrong.

    Whatever you reckon 🙄

  164. Give up Bacchus. There are none so blind as those who will not see. BTW, I did a pre-poll and discussed with the head honcho who confirmed the advice. But what would he know. Shakes head …

    And there’s little point in attempting to correct this nonsense.

    To do as you suggest will result in a donkey vote

    Personally I blame the (private) education system.

  165. Totally agree with what you say here Michael. I have a cousin who lives in WA who is a card holding Liberal, I often get into debates with him on Facebook, and it is like having a discussion with a brick wall ! Well actually I should retract that, some of the brick walls around Melbourne have a lot of good stuff to say!!! When you present facts, undeniable facts, it’s ” Oh that was some lefty expert, so thats not credible” even when some of the experts are dyed in the wool conservatives who are also afraid of what Abbott will do if he gets in. This is thing I don’t get about these opinion polls, even former colleagues and former leaders of his own party are speaking out against him, but the moronic masses seem to be eating his shit.

  166. andylj, I’ve been dealing with them here on the blog for three years. That’s three years of banging my head against the wall.

    Sometimes I think I’d have a more intelligent conversation with an ape than most of these right-wingers. At least the ape might have an IQ above 15.

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