An insult to Australians

From the day Café Whispers opened as a blog site we have maintained that the Murdoch media has been hell-bent on destroying the Labor Government; the result of which will see the elevation of a puppet Abbott Government. Naturally, we have been derided for suggesting this.

The behaviour of the Murdoch media, in particular since Kevin Rudd announced the election date has provided us with justification for our ‘crazy leftish conspiracy theories’.

I think there’s enough evidence on the front pages of the Murdoch rags to dispel the suggestion that it has just been nothing but a conspiracy theory. Only those who are hard-core right wingers would fail to see the vicious bile that is pushed down our throats. And only the ignorant would fail to accept that serious questions about Murdoch’s credibility and ethics hang around his neck in those countries where the public and the government are sick to death of his bullying tactics.

They are doing something about it. Nobody in this country has had the guts to.

It takes a British MP to come to our shores to tell us to wake up. It takes a British MP to tell us that Murdoch’s election coverage is an ‘insult to Australians‘. Tom Watson:

Dubbed Rupert Murdoch’s ”tormentor-in-chief” by the British press, he has since devoted himself to the public scrutiny of the 82-year-old’s global media empire. He is in Australia to discuss News Corp’s coverage of the federal election: an unabashed anti-Labor crusade, he believes, driven by Mr Murdoch and his New York Post editor-in-chief, Col Allan.

”It insults Australians when they produce content like that,” Watson says, referring to the recent front pages depicting Labor politicians as clowns and Nazis and demands to ”KICK THIS MOB OUT”.

The article reminds us that A fortnight ago, the ABC’s Media Watch analysed one week’s political coverage in Mr Murdoch’s Daily Telegraph. Of the 80 election stories it printed, the program deemed half negative to Labor but none negative to the Coalition.

Anyway, I could go on with quotes from the article but instead I implore you to read it yourself. Either that or read every post here at Café Whispers to hear the same message.

English: Rupert Murdoch at the Vanity Fair par...

Rupert Murdoch (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

191 comments on “An insult to Australians

  1. He did the same in England and the States. A friend said the reason why he lost out there was because Americans were suss about Romney and his Mormon beliefs??

  2. My main concern has always been that we the public are entitled to form our own opinions. Extreme bias of whatever persuasion deprives of this right.

    Depicting Labor politicians as “clowns and Nazis” is nothing more than a part of The Great Dumbing Down where we are not expected to have opinions but required to do nothing more than regurgitate the drivel fed to us on a daily basis by the Murdoch media. Note also that the technique used by Murdoch is not analysis of policy nor even of the person, but is based solely on hatred and ridicule. Instead of bringing out the best, the Murdoch media appeals to the worst aspects of human nature.

  3. Michael, owing to your wedding, I had the rare but not missed bad luck to read Friday and Saturday’s Telegraph. When traveling, I buy it for the crosswords.

    Glad to see, Media Watch, agrees with me one hundred percent, of what a disgraceful editions they were.

    Now, today, on the way home, I once again bought the paper. Funny, today, it was somewhat reasonable. Was last Friday and Saturday’s effort for the polls.

    Now listening to Q&A, only reinforces all you have written.

  4. Fed up – I can only respond to that video with this: Many times when I’m bored, I’ll go to this place called “Status Shuffle” on Facebook. It’s where I found this: “Duct tape is kind of like The Force; it has a light side and a dark side and holds the universe together. May the duct tape always be with you.” – May someone place the Duct tape on Abbott’s mouth.

  5. No. Voyager, unlike Abbott and his ilk, we will accepts the will of the voters.

    We then will work towards changing the situation at the next election and holding Abbott to account.

    There will be no tantrums and three year dummy spit from this side of the fence.

  6. and we will keep our fingers and everything else crossed, hoping that he does not destroy the economy in the meantime.

    One thing on our side, is that the man is very lazy when it comes to implementing and focusing on what he intends to do.

    Anyway, he will be too busy, erasing all that has been achieved since the hprrendous days of Hpward.

  7. Here’s a riddle for you… an ALP voting Australian Tea Party member, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a compassionate conservative come to an intersection where a $100 bill lays. Who picks it up first?
    The answer? No one… because none of them really exist

  8. Fed up, I am convinced that Abbott is no more than “a pretty face” (YUK!!) and will be fairly quickly disposed of by the Liberals if they win the election – after all they will want to be re-elected which is highly unlikely with an incompetent egotist such as TA in charge. Plus Turnbull isn’t hanging around for no reason whatsoever…his disgust at Abbott is obvious.

  9. his disgust at Abbott is obvious.

    You wanna’ see disgust? Check out the rapid retreat this poor young lady makes from the leech. And bishop the asbestos reckons he’s not a misogynist 😯

  10. Can only imagine what it will be after Election loss.

    At least Labor supporters have been preparing for it for a while.

    If the unthinkable happens, the Unhingement from the conservatives will be worth the price of admission. And, if Labor were to win with less than 50% of the vote, the crescendo will know no limits. Those Vacant brain space s will be filled with even more bile lol

  11. OMG – what a pack of whingers.
    Can only imagine what it will be after Election loss.

    OMFG projection at its basest.

    The right wingers never got over Howard being kicked out and after a month of stunned silence whined and moaned like there was no tomorrow, cracked crystal balling all sorts of doom and gloom that proved false.

    Then when Abbott’s stupidity lost them the last election, the whinging and whining reached a crescendo never heard before in this country and then the longest and biggest dummy spit in our political history ensued, one that continues to this day.

    Notice how petty and intellectually lilliputian the posts of the right wingers have become as the election nears.

    Sorry VOYAGER but if Abbott loses I have described what will happen in previous posts, and after the month or so of stunned silence the outpouring of visceral hatred, viciousness and the worlds biggest dummy spit will be unprecedented.

    On the other hand if Rudd loses then of course we will be upset, but as I have stated many times, that’s the people’s will for whatever reason that came about. We will just get on pointing out all Abbott’s lies, broken promises and failures, and there will be a lot of them, whilst you just make excuses for them, mostly blaming Labor. So damn predictable.

    It takes no imagination whatsoever to know what the right wingers will be like after an election loss as you can already see that the whole thing is about winning and nothing else, and purely for the reason of being childish in rubbing it in, country and people be damned/

  12. the outpouring of visceral hatred, viciousness and the worlds biggest dummy spit will be unprecedented.

    You mean the last three years won’t be a precedent? 😯

    Actually, I fear you are right. We will probably look back at the quaint old days when female Prime Ministers were simply referred to as “Bitch” 😦

  13. Mobius and given the now well documented media bias there is little victory in it. To provide a football analogy, where is the victory when the umpire awards all the free kicks to only one of the teams..and the team which he personally barracks for.

  14. where is the victory

    Unfortunately Min, it is in the win 😦

    I recall when Essendon got a slap on the wrist for exceeding the players payments (?) and all sheedy cos say was wtte “Well, we got a Premiership out of it”

    Whatever It Takes!

    It is wrong, but, unfortunately, effective.

  15. Good analogy Carol.

    The right of course don’t see it that way. They see it as their right to rule in perpetuity and elections can stymie that because of “stupid” swing voters who apparently don’t know what’s best for them, that is an unbroken dictatorship of Liberal governments ruling both houses.

    A rabid right wing media is only addressing that imbalance to do its best to ensure there are perpetual Liberal governments.

  16. Rupert’s mum was such a wonderful person, how did she end up having such a rotten son? Greedy, self obsessed right wing old fool that he is. With all his money and power he is still a very small man.

  17. Bill Shorten was asked why Murdoch supported Labor in 2007 and now has swung over to the Libs. Could it be that Murdoch realised that Labor would not be coerced or bullied into commercial monopolies such as being the sole distributor of the new NBN scheme?

  18. murdoch supported the libs at the start of the 2007 campaign. He only swung around to Labor when he realised the writing was on the wall.

    He is an opportunist, who will support whoever will further his business plans.

    Hence the foxtel enabled fraudband

  19. The fact that every labor supporter I talk to feels the need to justify why they shouldn’t be considered a massive failure of a government and how they MIGHT be back to win back the support of the Australian people…through broken promises and lies… just makes me sick, and proud to be a liberal voter.

    There is a comment above regarding the quality of liberal supporter comments on these labor fanatical pages – all I have to say is this: An idiot will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Any persons with an average IQ will refrain from engaging with labor supporters, I liken it to arguing with a wall.

    Oh and with respect to the current state of the economy – Labor is known for creating huge deficits and drowning us with debt, look at the level of debt inherited by the Howard government in 1996; $96 Billion… Wait, what was the level of debt inherited by Rudd back in 07?

  20. Tom, that was the theory..that old Rupert likes to be on a winner. However, as pointed out the bottom line is always the almighty dollar. Another however..Tony Windsor did say that the legislation has been etched in concrete. Windsor and Oakeshott as we all know supported Labor *because of* the NBN and subsequently made certain that it could never be rolled back without huge expense and I dare say, High Court challenges.

  21. Oh and with respect to the current state of the economy –

    Verdict

    The data indicates that the Prime Minister’s statement about the debt position of Australia is correct. The economy is doing relatively well by international standards. The new information recently released by the Treasury depicts a somewhat softer short-term outlook, but it does not substantially change the overall positive assessment of Australian economic performance in the global context.

    http://theconversation.com/factcheck-how-strong-is-australias-economy-16716

    😉

  22. Oh wait Willard, and what are you having for dinner tonight..$100.00 lamb roasts? 🙄

    Here’s your big chance Willard – tell us why Abbott is such a superior person – tell us why his policies are going to make you *personally* so much better off.

    But of course, there will be no response from Willard because he cannot answer, because he does not know, because he doesn’t stop to think very often…

  23. Who uttered these famous words?

    I think the important thing is that there be plenty of newspapers with plenty of different people controlling them, so that there’s a variety of viewpoints, so there’s a choice for the public. This is the freedom of the press that is needed. Freedom of the press mustn’t be one-sided just for a publisher to speak as he pleases, to try and bully the community.

    Follow the link to find out 😉

    http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3834127.htm

  24. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3834127.htm

    We all know the content of the transcript, but the comments are worth a read. Particularly notable is one offering some balance to this argument, whilst being staunchly pro-Coalition:

    SnappyTom :

    27 Aug 2013 8:27:38am

    Whilst the commentary on this show may be true, there seems to be very little balance on this show.

    If there is to be graphs displaying quantities of pro and anti Labor/Coalition articles, why not give it some context by comparing it to fairfax/global mail/crikey/WAN?

    Lets have a look at today’s smh.
    Anti Coalition:

    “Why we shouldn’t trust Abbott”
    “Huge cuts needed to fund coalition spending”
    “Abbott frees gambling industry”
    “Abbott will need to cut deep:experts”
    “The truth is yet to bite them, and us”
    “Liberal left sizzling as journalist devours bacon”

    Pro coalition
    “Sketch: Abbott prepares to reel in fishing vote”

    Wow there’s and example of balance 6:1 against. And you could claim the single pro coalition article is in there just so they can claim they are “balanced”.

    Now here’s a challenge for you try to find an article critical of the Greens in a fairfax paper.

    They get a free ride and its high time their policies were given the scrutiny that is reserved for the coalition and labor.

  25. lol, I wnet to SMH

    first two

    Bali bombing victim: Abbott saved my life

    Cash incentive for long-term unemployed

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013


    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Industry minister Senator Kim Carr at Mrs Macquarie’s Chair opposite the Garden Island Naval facility in Sydney on Tuesday 27 August 2013. Election 2013. Photo: Andrew Meares
    Rudd talks Syria with Obama

    DAVID WROE 11:46am Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has spoken with US President Barack Obama about the situation in Syria, which he has described as a crisis of historic proportions.

    PM rejects O’Farrell’s concerns navy shift would cost Sydney jobs

    Latest campaign news
    Bali bombing victim: Abbott saved my life
    Abbott

    TONY WRIGHT 11:03am An emotional victim of the 2005 bombing in Bali told on Tuesday of Tony Abbott saving his life by organising an emergency medical evacuation.
    Cash incentive for long-term unemployed
    industry – housing

    MARK KENNY 11:15am Long-term jobless people under 30 would be eligible for a $2500 “Job Commitment Bonus” if they secure work, under a Coalition government.
    Abbott frees gambling industry from reform
    Pokies.

    RICHARD WILLINGHAM The Coalition will rely on the clubs and gaming industry to develop support and counselling services for problem gamblers if it wins government.

    Comments 164
    Rudd rejects concerns navy shift would cost Sydney jobs
    Huge cuts needed to fund new spending
    Coalition’s carbon plan ‘a secret tax’
    Jakarta hits out at Coalition’s boat buyback scheme
    Greens set to unveil major policy on childcare
    Rudd’s team resorts to spoof to cast a wider net
    Big call: Labor hits the phones
    Coalition ‘guarantees’ funding for Landcare
    Rudd berated for ‘amnesia’ on carbon tax
    Greens announce mental health funding plan
    Labor goes global with ‘Abbott’s internet’ campaign
    Sydney naval base faces closure under Rudd

    Nice try k. Actually, turned out to be pretty lame 😯

  26. last night on media watch paul barry disgussed the murdoch campaign against rudd and said their was a complete bias from murdoch papers,
    then on Q&A Kelly o ndwyer said that the truth should be told of rudd’s character,
    eg ,the spray given to make up woman, the hair dryer incident ,which were all false accusations ,proven by other people that were there,these lies have being printed for so long they really believe them ,
    where is the honest reporting We should be really worried about abbott and murdoch

  27. @Tom – Great – so what you’re saying is that Australia’s economy has been able to weather the storm by skillful labor management? Right.. cash injections and massive spending and cost blowouts have saved the economy! Or could it be down to the fact that going into the GFC, the Howard govt’s previous economic management allowed KRudd and Australia the ability to utilise these tools. Unfortunately, if a similar global economic shock were to occur today, such tools would be unavailable without serious cost to our international (and domestic) standing.

    Thanks for your wonderful insight. Its simply crazy how Labor supporters believe that money in the coffers appears overnight!

    @Carol – I didn’t say Abbot was superior. What you just said exemplifies the true problem with Australian politics and labor supporters especially. When I vote Liberal, I vote on the basis of my beliefs, not on the aptitude or actions of one man (or woman). Please though, continue to tell me how bad Abbott is in comparison to your chameleon leader

  28. Even if that bullshit 6:1 were true, which it isn’t on any scrutiny, it’s still overwhelmed by the massive anti-Labor pro-Abbott balance of the Murdoch media and though less in other MSM outlets like the ABC, they still favour the Liberals over Labor.

    Wow Willard Smit, how to kick an own goal.

    Attack the site on accusations of low IQ and talking to a wall by posting a low IQ article that’s as much a wall as just about every other Liberal supporter article ever posted here.

    Did you actually bother going through past topics and posts before posting your inaccurate nonsense. Not a question, the answer is already known.

  29. Sorry Willard but though Howard had a part in getting us through the GFC, something acknowledged by Swan by the way, something you will never see the disingenuous Liberals do, acknowledge others, but he was only a part and nowhere near the complete story.

    If the Liberals GFC policy as they tabled and demanded at the time had been followed we would have gone into recession with an estimated 250,000+ jobs plus lost and who knows how many businesses shut down.

    And further on Howard’s so called economic management. That wouldn’t be the management that Costello canned at the time and said was unsustainable and leading the country to disaster?

    Plus you like so many others, especially on the Liberal’s side of the economic debate, show ignorance on government debt and deficits.

  30. My god – talk about being closed-minded. If you had actually read what I wrote, you would have gathered that I wasn’t talking about the liberal vs labor policy with respect to the GFC, simply that Liberal economic management allowed Labor the tools to claim the success of the Australian economy for themselves… How about we allow the discussion to be about the numbers, not the personalities shaping them to suit their needs.

    Though I guess it would be too much for such a staunch labor supporter to acknowledge that NOT having huge debt levels would positively affect how a state would and could respond to economic crises.

    Let me tell you though, the current push (by Labor) to tax every profitable and competitive industry in Australia will SURELY secure our prosperity in the future.

    furthermore, im especially happy that the proceeds from the carbon tax are being safely put away to deal with the looming climate crisis..

    ha.

  31. Interesting interview with Hugh McKay, Australian Votes ABC 24. New research shows we are becoming a three class society, with the gap widening between the the bottom and top. The middle is narrowing rapidly.

    There seems to be acceptance, that we are all right, and that there will always be the poor. Hugh said, this is new in his research.

    The talk of widening the GST, which is regressive fits into the belief of we are all right, Bugger anyone else.

    Yes, the age of entitlement is well and truly alive.

    Maybe it explains the lack of interest even in basic politics, that has arisen in this country. Cannot care less, as long as I am OK.

    Suspect they do not even care about those who came before them, or those who are following. That is their parents, and kids.

    That research was from the OECD, I think. We seem to be leaders in this filed, of widening difference between the rich and poor, with a disappearing middle class. Where middle class welfare, is alive and well.

    One only has to look at Abbott’s promises, to realize this is true.

  32. Would like to remind those, who believes getting rid of the CEF and all it entails, to keep in mind, Abbott will be replacing it with a bigger tax, or cost, which you, the taxpayer will pay, not those who emit the pollution.

    ….”This is Tony Abbott’s own carbon tax that he’s keeping secret, just like the savage cuts he’s hiding from Australians,” Mr Butler said.

    ”The man who said he’d fight a price on carbon until his last political breath has a great, big, new carbon tax sitting in the fine print of his own policy documents.”

    Mr Hunt said the analysis was ”wrong, fabricated and false”.

    Asked to expand on how the figures were wrong, Mr Hunt said: ”The reason is that we have booked no revenue from direct action and therefore those figures are completely wrong.

    ”We are budgeting zero revenue – repeat zero revenue – from direct action. The ALP is currently raking in $9 billion from the carbon tax and this is set to rise by 50 per cent by 2019, according to the [pre-election economic and fiscal outlook].”

    Iain MacGill, a director of the Centre for Energy and Environmental Markets at the University of NSW, said the data released by the government was a ”useful analysis”.

    ”As far as we know from the bits of detail we have seen about direct action, this appears to be how it would be implemented … But we really need the opposition to release the details of the policy to understand how it would work,” Dr MacGill said.

    Ads by Google

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/coalitions-carbon-plan-a-secret-tax-20130826-2sma7.html#ixzz2d8o4Pa00

  33. Correct, record private debt, champion housing unaffordability, pretence to paying off all public debt, and ignorance of the original debt truck, for a decade or more, was a great setup for the dissaving Australian economy going into the GFC’s credit crunch and its aftermath.

  34. Willard, you are not going to get far, with the ridiculous debt scare on this site. Would not waste my time, if I was you.

    Even Abbott is backing away from such nonsense.
    Is saying, it might take a decade to get back to surplus.

    No longer the disaster or emergency, Abbott has been claiming for the last three years.

    There are, I believe, inbuilt stabilizers in the budget, that will eventually bring the budget back to surplus, when the time is right. There are no short cuts.

  35. ” so what you’re saying is that Australia’s economy has been able to weather the storm by skillful labor management? ”

    Well the rest of the world, seem to believe they did.

    PC Rudd. ABC 24

  36. The lack of affordable housing, especially low income and rental, is the sleeping dog in this election. One both sides are ignoring. One that will come home to roost in the near future.

  37. OK Willard, want to talk about numbers, how do you explain those countries that had surpluses going into the GFC, like Denmark, Spain, Finland, Iceland and Chile who all did badly with none introducing wide ranging immediate stimulus packages, yet countries that went into the GFC with deficits like India, Israel, Poland and the Slovak Republic and introduced targeted stimulus packages like Labor did, did pretty well through it?

    The surplus is not the be all end all that the Liberals and their supporters constantly make out it is, and indeed it can be a long term detriment to the economy, which is what Howard’s pursuit of surplus over all else was.

    So lets look at this statement. “MOST ECONOMISTS worldwide, it seems, now accept Australia has the world’s best-managed economy.”

    They never said that through the Howard years, and again indeed there are many who state Howard’s was a badly managed economy.

    So what was it that got us through the GFC in such good stead and will again, even if we have this deficit hanging over us.

    Was it our raw material exports? Well Brazil, Russia, the USA and South Africa were all strong, and in some cases stronger, raw material exporters than Australia through the GFC, yet we did better than all those countries.

    Trade with China? Other countries had greater trade with China than Australia yet none fared as well.

    Our banking and other past economic reforms? Again there are countries with similar reforms and stronger regulatory sectors than Australia that didn’t do well.

    Time and again through every analysis there is just one thing that comes out that points to why Australia did so well through the GFC over and above so many other countries, many in stronger positions than Australia before the GFC, from being 12th in the world under Howard in 2007 to top in 2010.

    That is the government’s actions at the time.

    Rather than make this a long post you can find out exactly what those actions were in any quick search, there are plenty of sources listing them.

    The other fact is the Liberals posted their GFC policy at the time through Hockey, and indeed were demanding the government undertake them as a priority. The opposition’s total package was only $4 billion less than the government’s, and in the scheme of the size of both packages that was insignificant, so they would have also bought us into significant debt.

    Difference is, as was borne out by so many other countries, the Liberals would have bought us into recession, and indeed that was their plan, with the cost of hundreds of thousands of jobs and thousands of collapsed businesses. And once in recession like the rest of the world we would have been struggling out of it to this day.

  38. ……………..2:39pm: As per the last post on Peter Dutton and Coalition health policy, here is a link to the AFR article about the shadow health minister, in which he says that health policy will not be a huge priority for the Opposition during the election campaign.
    The piece, by my Fin colleague (and netball comrade) Joanna Heath, is behind the paywall. In it, Dutton says:
    “I’ve played a team game in opposition and on occasions that comes at a personal cost. Which I’ve been happy to do.”
    “Whilst the government has failed in health, their bigger failures have been in border protection, in lying to the electorate about the carbon tax, the government’s own waste, mismanagement and incompetence, and they’re the issues which all fit in to cost-of-living pressures, that’s the biggest factor across Australian society at the moment.
    “Our focus, at the moment, has been on cost-of-living issues, the imposition of the carbon tax with no environmental outcomes and that’s meant most of our debate time has been taken up by those issues.”………

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/the-pulse-live/federal-election-2013-live-august-27-2013-20130827-2smuo.html#ixzz2d8sQ84QP

    Rudd reminding O’Farrell that defence belongs to the Federal government,. Remind him that we are getting more ships, and there are more pleasure boats. The two do not add up, if one wants to berth them all at Garden Isl;and. Speaking from Queensland, defence base.

    Indonesia is pulling no punches, with what they think of Rudd. Seem to be saying, the man is an idiot. Imagine his first visit there.

  39. During times of economic growth, employment levels and incomes rise. Workers move into higher income brackets automatically increasing government taxation revenue. This process is known as fiscal drag or bracket creep. During a downswing in economic activity or recession, taxation revenue is reduced, increasing the deficit or reducing the surplus.

    The automatic stabilisers in the budget therefore play a counter-cyclical role, in that they tend to smooth out the effects of booms and recessions on the economy. In booms, demand is automatically checked through higher tax revenue and reduced government expenditure. In a recession, increases in government expenditure (unemployment benefits) help stimulate the economy and raise aggregate demand.

    Between 2002 and 2008 the mining boom and increased consumption of raw materials by China is estimated to have added $334 billion to corporate taxes paid by business to the Australian Government. This large increase in revenues allowed the government to deliver budget surpluses, tax cuts and save funds in national infrastructure funds – all at the same time.

    …. ignorance is bliss and you are all very happy

  40. So, was the Rudd Government brilliant, lucky, or reckless?

    My reading is: brilliant.

    http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/article/2013/aug/27/did-labor-really-save-us-gfc/

    Richard Holden is Professor of Economics at the University of New South Wales, Australian School of Business. He holds a PhD in economics from Harvard University and was previously a faculty member at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Chicago.

    http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/staff/richard-holden/

  41. Also… please refer to my earlier posts… I am NOT disputing the impact of Labors policy choices. I understand how economic forces impact and influence the economy… I am just saying, Labor’s ‘miracle’ economic management would not have been possible without the previous governments groundwork.

    Also important to note, the RBA is independent of any political party. It serves the Australian people, not the ruling government.

  42. Sorry Willard but you are ignoring the elephants in the room and attempting to skirt around admitting it was Labor government economic management that got us through the GFC in such good stead, acknowledged globally.

    First elephant, the opposition GFC proposal.
    Second elephant, other commodity producing countries that also significantly increased trade with China, some to a greater extent than Australia, but still fared poorly.

    Sorry so far all the ignorance being displayed is not by those you accuse of ignorance.

  43. @3:16PM

    That has not been disputed Willard. Go back through the posts and you will find there are those like me who have admitted that, including Swan himself.

    But that hasn’t been the only or most significant factor as the comparisons with other countries in similar of stronger positions than us illustrate.

    There is one significant factor of mostly Costello’s doing, began by Keating, that is very important to how well we fared, and that is the establishment of APRA. That rarely gets a mention but I have lauded it and Costello for it many times.

  44. Labor’s ‘miracle’ economic management would not have been possible without the previous governments groundwork.

    Labor themselves have stated as much, as have most here. What is at issue though, is what would have happened had Labor capitulated to the demands of the liberals and the media pack? Austerity was not the answer, nor were tax breaks. Labor took the correct course, yet some seem reticent to accept that. You appear to accept that.

  45. Austerity was not advocated by the Liberal’s – as previously mentioned, it was only a $4 bn gap in the packages presented by both parties. Of course, with hindsight we can look back and say that Labor did enough to avoid a catastrophe, but to think that you can know the outcome of a decision not taken, is quite arrogant.

  46. To argue that because other nations did fare poorly and Australia did not, due to a singular shared policy or position, is evidence of a real lack of understanding.

    And in response to the mineral-exports discussion –> Australian ties with China and Asia allowed us to shift our mineral exports from Europe and the Americas quickly, so to argue that China has had no part in our success is ridiculous.

  47. No austerity wasn’t advocated Willard, but bail outs and other measures of propping up mostly big businesses and financial institutions were, the very thing that caused recessions and major downturns in other countries, even ones that went into the GFC with surpluses.

    Major job losses were forecast in the Liberal package as were business closures, that was something the Labor government wouldn’t countenance and was the basis of their targeted implementation.

    The two packages were significantly different even though they were close in total outlay commitments, one where implemented elsewhere led to recessions and economic downturns and the other where implemented led to those countries faring significantly better despite being in deficit going into the GFC.

  48. I did not say China had no part but it’s not the entire answer either Willard.

    You seem to be attempting to abrogate away from the government all success of getting through the GFC in the good position we did, and that is not fair to what actually happened.

    There were several factors as both of us have mentioned, but in no small part the government’s actions and policies were crucial.

  49. It appears, Abbott is also not only insulting us, but our neighbours as well. Telling statement, is that they believe Abbott has no understanding of the refugee problem.

    Can only agree with them. Hard not too.

    “……………….”That idea shows how he sees things as (an) Australian politician on Indonesia regarding people smuggling. Don’t look at us, Indonesia, like we want this people smuggling.

    “This is really a crazy idea, unfriendly, derogatory and it shows lack of understanding in this matter.”

    Abbott, who has previously accused the Labor government of damaging Australia’s relationship with Indonesia, announced the buyback scheme last week as part of a new $420m package aimed at stemming the flow of refugee boats to Australia.

    Under the plan, millions of dollars would be used to buy boats from Indonesian fishermen, many of whom are poor and who in recent years have been easy prey for people-smuggling syndicates that offer much more money for their rickety vessels than can be made by fishing.

    But Hikmahanto Juwana, an international affairs expert from the University of Indonesia, has described the plan as “humiliating”, and says it shows the coalition has a poor understanding of its northern neighbour.

    Juwana warned the plan would risk a deterioration in relations between Australia and its northern neighbour, adding that it suggested Abbott viewed Indonesian fishermen as “mercenaries who did dirty jobs”…..”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/26/indonesia-slams-coalition-boat-buyback

  50. Just in case ANYONE still thinks that Fraudband is a viable communications & internet policy, read this & weep.

    It’s responses from people in other countries when some Australians tried to sell Fraudband to them. Of particular interest are the responses to Liealot’s assertions that 25mps is plenty good enough for the likes of us.

    http://abbottsinternet.com.au/

  51. Yes, some of the credit must go to Keating. A PM that I recall was hated nearly as much as Gillard was, before he went out.

    I suspect the cause might be, that Labor governments, when it comes to the economy are generally reformist governments. and it is only looking back, that one understands what they were about.

    I expect that Gillard will gain the same respect, as Whitlam and Keating.

    When it comes to Howard and Costello, looking back has not treated them well. They have been found badly wanting, leaving serious structural budget deficits in their wake.

    Same goes for that other long serving Liberal PM, Mr. Menzies. Many say he wasted the post war time boom. This I also agree with.

  52. It was not just the amount that Rudd spent on the stimulus, but the way it was spent.
    The aim was to get money into the economy as quickly as possible. Thus the $900 to low income earners. This money had to be spent quickly to get any results. The second tier was to get as much building going, as quickly as possible, to keep people in work. For the sake of the economy, it realy matter not, what the money was spent on.

    Australia is lucky, that so much good infrastructure was left behind.

    The Conservatives, go more down the track of things such as tax and interest rate cuts, which are just as expensive, but do not seem to bring the same results.

    Often benefiting those, who are inclined to save the handouts.

    What the right cannot come to terms with, is giving money to those, who believe will only waste it. That is in their eyes. All that matters, was that the money was got quickly into circulation, to keep people in work, and stop businesses from failing.

  53. ……4:22pm: A note on the previous post on the Coalition policy on $200 vouchers for pre-marital counselling (3.17pm)
    I have spoken to a source from Abbott’s office about it, and he says the money can be recouped by same-sex couples as well as straight couples.
    Obviously same-sex couples won’t be getting pre-marital counselling, per se, because they can’t get legally married yet. But they can use the $200 towards relationship counselling.
    The scheme would be a capped one-year trial. I am seeking more detail for you but the main point is that same-sex couples are not excluded by it.
    But of course they are still excluded from marriage itself…..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/the-pulse-live/federal-election-2013-live-august-27-2013-20130827-2smuo.html#ixzz2d9Gw1PBj

    Last time . it was given to Christian Churches to administer.

  54. Abbott is not going to mahe the mistake of upsetting the gaming industry. Suspect that Rudd will follow his example.

    “..The Coalition will rely on the clubs and gaming industry to develop support and counselling services for problem gamblers if it wins government.
    ‘This is Dracula in charge of the blood bank’ – Tim Costello

    Gambling reformers are dumbfounded by plans for the pokies and club lobby, which vocally campaigned against federal poker machine reforms in the hung Parliament, to form an industry advisory group.
    They say any group should include gambling experts and community groups that work with problem gamblers.

    An Abbott government would also scrap a trial of controversial measures designed to curb problem gambling on Australia’s poker machines.
    Earlier this month the Coalition released its problem gambling policy, which focuses on improving counselling for problem gamblers as well as gradually introducing voluntary precommitment and banning online bookmakers from offering credit.
    Under the Coalition’s plan an indus…”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/abbott-frees-gambling-industry-from-reform-20130826-2smct.html#ixzz2d9MI9cLs

  55. Labor is known for creating huge deficits and drowning us with debt, look at the level of debt inherited by the Howard government in 1996; $96 Billion… Wait, what was the level of debt inherited by Rudd back in 07?

    Actually – $59 billion… 😉

    A couple of more questions for you Willard:
    * What was the net debt left by Whitlam to the Fraser government (with Howard as treasurer)?
    * What was the net debt left by Fraser / Howard to the Hawke / Keating government?

  56. Howard, as Treasurer left what some call record debt himself. Keating was still paying it off, when Howard became PM.

    Some of Keating’s debt, was inherited from Howard.

    I seem to recall Keating spending huge amounts, getting the unemployed back to work. Some great infrastructure for the western suburbs of Sydney came out of that spending. Cannot remember what it was called.

    Hockey releasing some preliminary costings tomorrow, whatever that means.

  57. Fu, You would also remember that Gough Whitlam left with negative net debt. 😉 That would mean that Treasurer John W Howard started with money in the bank and left with net debt owing…

    Couldn’t possibly be so Fu. “Labor is known for creating huge deficits and drowning us with debt,” not Lieberals 😯 😉

  58. Bacchus, funny how the facts never match with perceptions, when it comes to Labor.

    I was not much more than a kid, but I do indeed recall those mini and horror budgets, and many elections.

    Of course, that was not Labor either.

    Keating’s unemployment scheme was the RED scheme, I believe. Built lots of parks, but took a long time to get those workers back to work.

    I also recall, that I heard Keating, about the time of the GFC, that he wished he had gone in early and hard, when faces with simulacrum financial downturn.

    Cutting tax, simply does not work., Money has to be got quickly, into the hands of those, who have no option but to spend it.

    I believe that after each downturn, it takes longer to get the unemployed back to work. The RED and other schemes for the unemployed are expensive. Doubly so, when they become long term.

  59. “furthermore, im especially happy that the proceeds from the carbon tax are being safely put away to deal with the looming climate crisis.. ha”

    Willard the carbon tax was designed to be revenue neutral…..not to stash money away. It is returned to people through the household assistance package, and to businesses that were hardest hit by the tax by subsidies. It has also been used to invest in R&D of the renewable energy sector.

    It’s aim was to change behaviour and it has been unquestionably successful at doing just that.

  60. Fed Up. How appropriate is your handle?

    The aim was to get money into the economy as quickly as possible. 1.Thus the $900 to low income earners. 2.This money had to be spent quickly to get any results. 3. The second tier was to get as much building going, as quickly as possible, to keep people in work. 4. For the sake of the economy, it realy matter not, what the money was spent on.
    1. The fools are still sending $900 to European backpackers in the middle of an election. $5m to be exact. Go on deny it!
    2. On pokies, booze, drugs and flat screen tv’s manufactured offshore. Go on deny it!
    3. Tuckshops @$1,000,000 and school shade areas @$3,000,000 that should have been built at 1/3 of the cost. Money wasted on management fees to Alp affiliated companies. Go on deny it!
    4. Apparently not. Pink bats took four young lives and burned I don’t know how many homes, not to mention left many insulation businesses broke and families in distress. Go on deny it!

    You socialist comrades will no doubt attempt to defend these facts, but the voters know it’s indefensible. Be ashamed to even try and defend these. Shame on any of you who try. Rudd is condemned. Garrett still wrestles with his conscience the poor bastard, and in a place he never wishes to be. MOst of the Labor front bench deserted. In war, you’d be shot!

    Australia is disgusted and they haven’t forgotten, as you will no doubt realise next Saturday. You can rant and rave here in your cocoon of socialism, spurring each other on with falsehoods and lies, making each other feel good and ganging up on anyone who dares to challenge you, let alone ask a question, make a joke or pass judgement. Bullies is what you are. Feeble narrow-minded minorities that try to justify your beliefs with tripe and shite.

    Australia will turn the corner next week, SMALL business (Australia’s biggest employer) will return to profit in time, employers will continue to support friends and families and you hateful, spiteful people will wallow here trolling your bile against anyone who offers a different point of view.

    For Christ’s sake, lighten up. Wake up to yourselves.

  61. Summo,

    1) The $900 was for ALL taxpayers, not just ones here that happened to check the mailbox. Experts ( not partisans) say it saved us from recession.
    2) What does the baby bonus socialist payment get spent on? Australian only goods eh? Thick as a brick.
    3) Find a school that hates their school hall. Ones that cost too much were in the minority and it was part of keeping the country from going into recession.
    4) Cheap shot at deaths because of shonky bastards. And it’s you lot that whinge about over regulation. There were deaths and fires before the scheme and the shonksters were prosecuted.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/10/19/insulation-fire-risk-%E2%80%93-the-data-is-in/

    And socialists? Hows the Coalitions PPL. BB, FHOG & Direct action for you?

  62. Summo you truly are an ignorant man who obviously gets his “facts” from the Murdoch Press.

    1. There was legislation about who was eligible for the $900 cheque based on the 07-08 financial year. This is not an arbitrary thing….it was the LAW.

    2. How the hell do YOU know what people spent the money on and you seem to miss the point that it was to get that money circulating in the economy.

    3. The BER was completed with a 97% satisfaction rate and not only provided schools with facilities but also kept the construction industry out of recession.

    4. Four lives were lost, several workers were injured and about 120 houses caught fire in a program employing more than 12,000 people in the space of a year. During this time, more than a million homes were insulated. This was up from about 67,000 homes a year previously. Of course, those deaths are tragedies. But what was the rate of house fires, injuries and deaths prevailing during the Howard years? The CSIRO’s basic research – developed further by Possum Comitatus at Crikey – found the rate of fires, injuries and deaths was actually four times higher during the Howard years than during the period of the home insulation program.

    You claim that a change of government will return small business to profit. Being a small business owner I would LOVE to hear how the Coalition are going to increase my profit margin. Care to enlighten me on that? (she waits with baited breath to see if he has ANY idea what Coalition policies ARE let alone be able to explain them)

  63. summo, you miss the point. Does not matter what the money was spent on. All that mattered, was that in got into circulation as quickly as possible. It was the money, going around, that did the trick.

    We are lucky, that in fact it did build much. Bought our schools into this century. Yes, school halls, libraries, science and language labs. And yes, the digitalized class rooms. The electronic white boards and computers in every room.

    Yes, and the insulation of a million and quarter roofs, that all still get benefit from, with lower power bills, summer and winter.

    The parks and playgrounds, that money to councils provided. Yrs, the low coast housing. The list goes on and on.

    In spite of the outrageous noise at the time,the many investigations and inquiries has proved, that for most of the time, the money was well spent. Even leading to safer workplaces, with new regulations, in retrofitting insulation into roofs. Yes, a lower fatality and fewer fires.

    I have only touched on programmes, that the stimulus money was spent on.
    Yes, it kept the economy moving, kept people employed, and businesses afloat.

    Yes, even today, many years later, most other western countries are still in recovery mode.

    Yes, the economy is fragile, but not in, or even looked like being in recession. There has been economic growth and new jobs created.

    I wonder why anyone would like to risk their future, by giving Abbott the chance to bring it all down.

    Yes, we had the mining boom, with it’s super profits, and the spin off of the high dollar, that has held back the rest of the economy. One can hope, with that dollar now coming down, things will move back to be more normal.

  64. summo, nothing to do with socialism.

    What is Howard, and now Abbott’s middle/upper welfare by the way.

    Welfare that Gillard attempted tp claw back, but Abbott intends to put back in place.

  65. Dummo,

    Australia will turn the corner next week, SMALL business (Australia’s biggest employer) will return to profit in time, employers will continue to support friends and families

    __________________
    This is what will happen if the media-miners get the Lieberals into power.

    1) WorkChoices will be back. Maybe with a new name, but the same policy (or more savage) than previously.

    2) Wages and conditions will be cut. Protection from unfair dismissal abolished.

    3) Employees (who comprise the bulk of consumers) take a sudden loss of income and job security.

    4) With less money and no job security, consumer confidence falls.

    5) As consumer confidence falls they scale back their discretionary spending.

    6) Businesses that rely on that spending take a hit to profits.

    7) Business confidence plummets.

    8) As a result of tanking business confidence, businesses use the provisions of WorkChoices to cut wages further still and lay off masses of staff without being required to give notice or cause.

    9) More and more consumers suffer loss of income and job security.

    10) Falling consumer confidence gathers pace.

    11) Leading to less consumer spending

    12) Leading to further falling of business confidence.

    13) Leading to yet deeper wage cuts and more retrenchments.

    14) Causing deeper falls in consumer confidence

    15) Resulting in falling business confidence and profits, etc, etc, etc.

    And around and around it will go as the economy goes into tailspin.

    and you hateful, spiteful people will wallow here trolling your bile against anyone who offers a different point of view.

    You hateful, spiteful LIEberal people, through ideological zealotry, will cause a recession or worse. It will blight the economy, millions of lives, and, in the end, the Lieberals’ economic record.

    And we will be here, chronicling every fuck-up, every injustice, every brainfart and gaffe from Abbott, every piece of bad news, economic and otherwise, and holding the likes of YOU morons responsible.

  66. I believe it took the second world war to bring the great depression to an end. Does not matter what the money was spent on. Probably does not matter who spent it.

    In fact, the truth is we got a pretty good return from the money spent. Forgot, there was also a few roads and other work, I believe.

  67. Liberal backbencher John Alexander ‘has revealed coalition will bring back WorkChoices’

    First-time MP John Alexander, speaking at a business function in his Sydney electorate last week, said weekend penalty rates needed overhauling.

    “It is something that must be addressed and it must be addressed without that position of the worker is king and must be given these rights,” he said.

    The former tennis star said employees should be able to negotiate their work conditions with their employer, and if penalty rates hurt productivity they were not producing efficiency.

    “They cannot be a good thing,” he said.

  68. The funny thing, is that FWA seems to be working OK. Workers productivity up. It is capital that is letting down productivity. Probably aided by poor management.

  69. Very good analysis there cuppa. It’s a real pity that the small businesses that will hurt most, like storage companies, will bear the brunt of the downturn. Ironically, they’ll believe the crap that the cause of their probems is Labor government decisions. Ya can’t cure intellectual blindness… 🙄

  70. Clive Palmer on Lateline. Alberici and Palmer are very aggro towards each other. Palmer has just said that the polls are fraudulent! I don’t think Alberici liked him saying that. It was an astounding thing to say, and she never followed up with the obvious questions.

  71. Mention back there of the Stimulus Package. Labor’s mistake, I think, was to rely on its usual blinkered & idealistic belief in an egalitarianism all right thinking people know doesn’t, or at least shouldn’t, exist. Payments should’ve been staggered. $25 or so to lower incomes ranging to several thousand for those folk of calibre, you know, liberal voters. If they’d only adopted this sensible measure I’m sure they’d have been spared much of the criticism that came their way.

  72. Common Aussies ! The legacy of Howard is we went to wars made of lies for the benefit of the Global imperial banking plans . He put a side a few billion through the process of neglecting development and the neediest . TOO easy !
    Labor gave Australia to the wolfs in privatisations and liberal banking ( Keating era ) .Now Kevin wants to go to Syria..WHY ? It is an other theatre for the benefit of the imperial bankers . Having a “democracy” where the “leaders” change their mind from pre-election speeches with a compulsory “duty ” to vote for known liars is a joke lets call it an “idiocracy ” instead .If you really want things to change vote BLANK ..

  73. Payments should’ve been staggered. $25 or so to lower incomes ranging to several thousand for those folk of calibre, you know, liberal voters.

    Baaaahaha.

  74. Another Hockey/Abbott con.Only releasing figures of his three man panel, not the official Budget Honesty.

    Being challenged on the figures offer.

    Claiming that Labor has not released theirs. Compare what he is doing now, with what Labor has suggested ten or more down the track.

    Excuse from last election. Claiming they cannot trust Labor, as excuses for their behavior.

    Sorry, the only ones I have any faith in, are those from the Depart of Budget Honesty.

  75. Another Hockey/Abbott con.Only releasing figures of his three man panel, not the official Budget Honesty.

    Being challenged on the figures offer.

    Claiming that Labor has not released theirs. Compare what he is doing now, with what Labor has suggested ten or more down the track.

    Excuse from last election. Claiming they cannot trust Labor, as excuses for their behavior.

    Sorry, the only ones I have any faith in, are those from the Depart of Budget Honesty.

    Sorry, getting rid of the so called carbon tax, is not the answer to everything.

    Hockey, with their con,, has made matters worse for the L-NP

  76. Budget will be slightly better off than Labor. 2 billion mentioned.

    Why not the Parliamentary Office figures.

    Remember, the Greens have had their similart policy assessed. Hockey’s not in agreement.

  77. “On the table (Oz): THE Coalition will today counter Kevin Rudd’s most potent political attack by releasing official Parliamentary Budget Office costings that show Tony Abbott’s controversial paid parental leave scheme will actually make money for the budget over the next four years.”

    Another insult. Mr. Hockey has not done this.

  78. I’ve been busy and won’t be able to put a new post up just yet, but something will be up in the next day or two. Please be patient. 🙂

    People have been sending me some articles to put up as guest posts, which I’m also looking forward to posting shortly.

    Cheers.

  79. One can only hope. Of course, he will continue to support Pyne, or will he cut him loose as well.

    “Opposition Leader Tony Abbott speaks to media at the Caboolture Netball Association.
    Vicki Wood

    ………..COALITION leader Tony Abbott has failed to accept an opportunity to restate his support for the LNP’s embattled Fisher candidate Mal Brough.

    Mr Brough’s involvement in the Ashbygate affair saw Justice Steven Rares deliver adverse findings against him during his dismissal of sexual harassment allegations against sitting Fisher member Peter Slipper.

    The matter has dogged Mr Brough’s bid to re-enter politics.

    He lost the neighbouring seat of Longman at the 2007 election.

    APN Newsdesk, the Daily’s national affairs reporting team, put a series of questions to Mr Abbott about his confidence in Mr Brough.

    In December last year, Mr Abbott declared Mr Brough had “acted rightly at all times”.

    However, the issue has failed to go away.

    It flared again when Fairfax candidate and Palmer United Party leader Clive Palmer said MrBrough had asked him to fund former Slipper staffer James Ashby’s legal case against the former Speaker.

    http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/abbott-refuses-to-back-mal-again/2000403/

  80. Anyone interested in what the experts think of the Abbott/Hunt Direct Action.

    http://timroxburgh.tumblr.com/post/59390888394/greg-hunts-for-supporters

    ..UPDATE: Greg Hunt has today told The Wire that he was simply highlighting the low opinion of carbon taxes among the Nobel laureates involved in the Copenhagen Consensus. We certainly gained the impression that he was listing supporters of his plan. Listen to the original question we asked of Greg Hunt here. Greg Hunt has also provided a fresh list of supporters to The Wire: we’ll contact these individuals and report back on The Wire in the coming w…………..

    Bowen and Hockey NPC.

  81. Does one get the feeling, Hockey’s heart is not in what he is saying.

    Bowen effort was good.

    Mr. Hockey, details of that plan please?

    Details of what green and black tape your are going to get rid of, for a start.

    Suspect Hockey is going to be in the line of attack, not Bowen.

  82. Farr, Kodak day. Back to Howard’s day. Money handout to Kodak and the company collapsed,. Appears, Abbott has promise money to Cabury’s.

  83. Hockey just got one rumour wrong. It was alleged that NBN was worked out on the back of the napkin, on the way to the UK. Sorry, it was on the way to PNG.

    In fact it was the final details that was worked out, not the plan itself. In fact, it was on the same trip, that Rudd was supposed to abuse the air force officer, re the menu.

    Hockey having problems getting budget to surplus, when he now has the same aims as Labor.

  84. As for Labor not providing funding details for the north and Garden Island. Labor has only said there will be inquiries into the value of both. Cost not applicable at this stage.

  85. Hockey. One has to be judged by outcomes. Well then, the outcomes for Labor has delivered one of the best economies in the world.

    No, Mr, Hockey, you did not reveal the costings of the BFH today. It was the views of your three man panel.

  86. Yes, Mr. Hockey, how did taking away the rebate on Medicare harm low income earners. Well need a great stretch of imagination, to get around that one.

  87. Mr. Hockey, how is getting rid of the so called carbon tax, that has only added very little to the coast of living, going to give us more to spend?

    This includes the massive rises we have seen in power, which have not been caused by the cost on carbon emissions?

  88. Consumers know well that buying a cheaper product often costs more in the long term when the cheaper product has to be replaced. This is true of the Coalition’s vision for the National Broadband Network (NBN): it may cost less in the short term, but not in the long term………

    http://theconversation.com/can-australia-afford-the-coalitions-nbn-17494?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+28+August+2013&utm_content=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+28+August+2013+CID_f17c21dcf67409cc5ede93c8492b335c&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Can%20Australia%20afford%20the%20Coalitions%20NBN

    Will NBN lite be cheap and nasty?

  89. Deploying FTTN is clearly a good alternative for these companies because it enables them to extract as much value as possible out of the copper network before it inevitably becomes obsolete.

    Unlike FTTN deployments elsewhere in the world, the Coalition’s business model requires that a full commercial price be paid for access to the copper network. The Coalition hopes it will obtain access for the same amount (A$11 billion) NBNCo has agreed to pay for access to Telstra’s ducts and pits.

    That comes to approximately A$1,000 per premises, and pushes the Coalition’s NBN cost up to about A$29.7 billion, or about A$2,320 per premises. It will likely be the most expensive FTTN deployment anywhere in the world.

    What will the Coalition get in return for its A$11 billion? It certainly won’t be a shiny new Ferrari – rather, a rusty FJ Holden that requires constant maintenance, love and attention to keep it running…………..

    http://theconversation.com/can-australia-afford-the-coalitions-nbn-17494?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+28+August+2013&utm_content=Latest+from+The+Conversation+for+28+August+2013+CID_f17c21dcf67409cc5ede93c8492b335c&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Can%20Australia%20afford%20the%20Coalitions%20NBN

    Yes, sometimes the cheapest, can be very nasty indeed. In fact useless, when one comes to use the item.

    We are being conned.

  90. Does small business like losing these.

    …………….On top of already announced savings including the abolition of the schoolkids bonus, the low income superannuation guarantee, the supplementary allowance for unemployment benefit recipients, reversing the increase in the refugee intake and reducing the public service by 12,000, the Coalition has now also promised to abolish:

    • The instant asset write-off which allows small businesses to write off up to $6,500 worth of purchases on things like office equipment and computers against their tax liability (saving $2.89bn).

    • The tax loss carry back, which allows companies to offset losses from the current financial year against tax already paid during more profitable years, up to a limit of $1m for each year. (saving $900m).

    • Accelerated depreciation for cars (saving $400m).

    • The phase-down of interest with-holding tax, which is paid primarily by financial institutions (saving $400m).

    And it has said it will not proceed with measures funded from Labor’s carbon tax including $5bn worth of business compensation.

    That figure includes $4bn from abolishing the free carbon permits offered to trade-exposed business, which is a saving in fiscal terms but does not impact on the budget’s underlying cash balance since they were offered for free in the first place.

    The Coalition will also abolish assistance to the steel and coal industries, the clean energy finance corporation, the Australian Renewable Energy Agency and the Climate Change Authority…………….

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/27/election-2013-third-rudd-v-abbott-debate-build-up-politics-live-blog?CMP=ema_632&et_cid=46812&et_rid=1876527&Linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fworld%2f2013%2faug%2f27%2felection-2013-third-rudd-v-abbott-debate-build-up-politics-live-blog

  91. Labor has picked up on a statement by Joe Hockey in his costings press conference that he will use the accrual figure, not the underlying cash balance, as his accounting standard.

    The convention is the cash balance.

    Finance minister Penny Wong:

    Joe Hockey has today abandoned the use of the underlying cash balance as the basis for the Liberals’ budget position. This is a truly remarkable departure from the rules established by Peter Costello.

    Mr Hockey today admitted to using the accrual rather than cash bottom line for their numbers – which makes any figures Mr Hockey produces look much rosier than they actually are.

    The difference between cash and accrual bottom lines across the forward estimates is $16.6bn. Were federal Labor to use an accrual bottom line, it would be in surplus a year earlier, in 2015…

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/27/election-2013-third-rudd-v-abbott-debate-build-up-politics-live-blog?CMP=ema_632&et_cid=46812&et_rid=1876527&Linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fworld%2f2013%2faug%2f27%2felection-2013-third-rudd-v-abbott-debate-build-up-politics-live-blog

  92. We haven’t had access to treasury until the campaign, Hockey says, and we would have to had to have submitted our policies to treasury via the prime minister’s office. I don’t think Kevin Rudd would have kept them confidential. Labor has given our three experts glowing character assessments.

    Q: You’ve counted a state saving in the Commonwealth budget. How does that work?

    It is a saving.

    Q: How?

    I’ll answer you later, Hockey says.

    Q: You are keeping compensation for the carbon tax?

    It’s stimulus, Hockey says. That and PPL – it’s a productivity measure and a measure to improve economic growth.

    Q: Direct action – your assumptions are out of date. Are we seriously getting no new costings on this policy for this campaign?

    The policy will work, don’t worry….

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/27/election-2013-third-rudd-v-abbott-debate-build-up-politics-live-blog?CMP=ema_632&et_cid=46812&et_rid=1876527&Linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fworld%2f2013%2faug%2f27%2felection-2013-third-rudd-v-abbott-debate-build-up-politics-live-blog

    Maybe Neil can explain how it will work. Anyway, hockey says, do not worry, it will work.

  93. Abbott appears to be setting up more new bodies, than he is getting rid of. Suggest, forget this, and keep the school kids bonus.

    Is Tony Abbott’s ‘cop on the beat’ worth $6 billion?

    Finding
    Mr Abbott based his claim that the establishment of the ABCC led to productivity and cost savings of around $6 billion a year on research commissioned by an industry association. It was in turn based on research commissioned by the ABCC itself.
    The inquiry into the ACCC headed by Justice Wilcox found the original research “deeply flawed”. The ABCC removed it from its website.
    A Politifact rating of mostly false applies where a statement contains an element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression.
    PolitiFact rates the claim “mostly false”.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/fact-checker/is-tony-abbotts-cop-on-the-beat-worth-6-billion-20130828-2spkd.html#ixzz2dF8EgeDG

  94. Just breaking the run of over twenty posts. Must be a record here but less than the wild pigs I’ve taken out in the last few days. In town to get some more alcohol then back to camp.

    I’m over the whole bullshit campaign by both sides!

  95. ………….The Coalition voted for a $10.8 billion handout of money in round one of the stimulus which was effectively a 100 per cent ‘waste’ of public money.

    But when a similar amount was directed into the pockets of small contractors, who returned roughly 90 per cent of that money as brand new educational assets – the school halls – Labor’s critics cried blue murder.

    The ‘Building the Education Revolution’ program, as it was known, was a jobs program, not a building program. It prevented the financial collapse of thousands of small businesses and individual contractors and that was its primary purpose – not ensuring that Mr G had somewhere to run his interpretive dance workshops.

    Moreover, many of the SMEs that were saved use their homes as collateral for the finance required to keep their businesses running. Had they collapsed, the housing market would have followed. .

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/8/28/election/labors-sme-failure-myth?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=400656&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=

  96. 5) As consumer confidence falls they scale back their discretionary spending.

    6) Businesses that rely on that spending take a hit to profits.

    7) Business confidence plummets.

    8) As a result of tanking business confidence, businesses use the provisions of WorkChoices to cut wages further still and lay off masses of staff without being required to give notice or cause.

    9) More and more consumers suffer loss of income and job security.

    10) Falling consumer confidence gathers pace.

    11) Leading to less consumer spending

    12) Leading to further falling of business confidence.

    13) Leading to yet deeper wage cuts and more retrenchments.

    14) Causing deeper falls in consumer confidence

    15) Resulting in falling business confidence and profits, etc, etc, etc.

    And around and around it will go as the economy goes into tailspin.

    Cuppa, a very apt description of the last 5 years that! Been into a Westfield of late? Been hearing retailers cries? Billabong profits down by how much again? Myer, David Jones? Smaller retailers closing their doors nation wide? Clothing chains and franchises going to the wall? Commercial retail sector hurting? Taken a drive and seen the for lease signs all over industrial estates Australia wide?

    No of course you haven’t culpa.

    Cuppa = blinkered.

    yajustgottalaugh 😉

  97. …………..rom programs linked to carbon price and other emission reduction programs. This includes cuts to the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA).

    These cuts are detailed in a document from the Coalition explaining a series of broader budget savings the Coalition will seek to realise over the forward estimates.

    So far the Coalition has been unable to provide much detail on the cuts to ARENA. But Coalition staffers within Joe Hockey and Greg Hunt’s office have confirmed to Climate Spectator that ARENA funding cuts are part of a $1.5b savings measure described vaguely as “other measures linked to the carbon tax that are wasteful or will no longer be required”. Also at a press conference this morning Joe Hockey stated that cuts to the Clean Energy Finance Corporation and ARENA made up part of the $1.5b in savings.

    However at the time of posting, Coalition staffers have not been able to provide Climate Spectator with a break-down on the $1.5b in cuts and how much will come from ARENA funding……

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/8/28/renewable-energy/coalition-cut-arena-funding

  98. This is what that so called carbon tax was funding. Yes, assistance to allow industry to move onto renewals, and in the long run, cheaper power bills.

    “……………Other changes to climate programs they have revealed are:

    Discontinuing the business compensation measures introduced to provide partial relief to selected sectors and industries from costs associated with the carbon price ($5.1 billion). This includes:
    –Removal of the increase in the instant asset write-off threshold to $6,500 ($0.2 billion);

    –Discontinuing the Jobs and Competitiveness Program ($4.0 billion);

    –Discontinuing the Steel Transformation Plan ($0.1 billion);

    –Discontinuing the Clean Technology Program ($0.4 billion);

    –Discontinuing the Coal Sector Jobs Package ($0.3 billion); and

    –Discontinuing other small Clean Energy Future business compensation measures including the Energy Efficiency Information Grants, the Clean Energy Skills package, and the Clean Technology Focus for Supply Chain programs;

    Discontinuing carbon price compensation measures for electricity generators ($0.5 billion);
    Discontinuing various land sector initiatives as well as climate policy agencies such as the Climate Change Authority ($0.4 billion); and
    Redirection of funding from the Carbon Capture and Storage Flagships Program (saving $0.3 billion); ……”

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/8/28/renewable-energy/coalition-cut-arena-funding

    Where is Abbott going to find the money fro Direct Action?

  99. Pre poll voting is way up from 2010 elections. Both pre and postal. Not many taking how to vote. Does this mean, high informal vote.

  100. Trouble is, there is so much that is important, with little time to get it out.

    We hear, getting rid of carbon tax, but nothing about what it has been supporting.

    Yes, investing in many small business.

    Sorry summo and scaper, if too many fact get in the way of your tripe.

    No good bringing it up after the elections.

    I am passionate about climate change and the NBNCo.

    Also, Hockey did have a bad day, but I assume it will not get near OM. This in spite of the journos asking Hockey some tough questions.

    If one in not interest, just scroll past, as I do with most of the trolls.

    I take it, you are objecting to me, exercising my free speech, we hear so much about from you people.

    Just scroll past, I will not be offended.

  101. Capitol Hill. It appears that small business is not happy about Hockey’s revelations. Wonder why. Easier to keep to the slogans, of I will get rid of the carbon tax and MRRT.

    No wonder our trolls are a little upset.

  102. Trouble for Abbott and the trolls, Gillard gave small business much. Much to make their lives easier.

    Does not fit in with Hockey’s messages. It appears there are many more, thabn listed today.

    I would suggest, small businesses contract their accountants before casting that vote.

  103. Gillard gave small business much. Much to make their lives easier.

    She sure didn’t. She announced an election 9 months out and business has shut down because of electoral uncertainty ever since. But what’s the point of me saying anything? You won’t believe anything true.

    I’m just so thankful alp returned to rudd. Gillard had a better chance. Now you have nothing. You were all warned about rudd, but chose to ignore solid advice. Now he wont even win his own seat! Australians aren’t stupid and they see him for what he is.

  104. summo, Abbott has been in election mode for over three years, talking the economy down each day. With some success sadly.

    “Tony Abbott’s claim households will be $550 a year better off without the carbon tax is outdated………

    ..The verdict

    Mr Abbott’s figure is outdated. Household bills will be lower if the fixed carbon priced is scrapped by Coalition. But they will also go down under Labor’s new ETS policy.

    Either way, Mr Abbott’s $550 figure no longer applies…….

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-28/abbott-using-outdated-figure-on-carbon-tax-cost/4912726

  105. It is nice to hear the ABC talking about what has occurred today. Yes, they are talking policy, and how it effects people. summo, your side having little luck

  106. summo, why do you keep making that lying statement, about what people here think about Rudd.

    Most here, do believe that Gillard would be doing better. After all, it is her groundwork that Rudd is running with, and Gillard had Abbott’s measure.

    Saying that, we also acknowledge that the caucus had the right to change leader.

    It is not Rudd, that most support, but Labor, and what they have achieved over the last six years, in spite of changes of leaders.

    So stop the lies, that we wanted Rudd.

  107. I do not recall anyone here calling for Rudd to come back. Do remember many were angry and upset when it happened. It I am right, you are either mistaken, or more likely lying.

  108. Summo @5.19pm, far too simplistic. You have failed to take into account all trends especially the impact of online retailing which is having a far greater impact on small privately owned businesses than anything which any government might do.

  109. Rudd going first.. Plenty of new businesses in my area Carnot recall so many opening over the last three or four years.

    Cannot move in the nearby shopping centre. Glad I do not have to find parking.

    This on the Central Coast, NSW, where according to Abbott yesterday, things are bad.

  110. Abbott is now on with the slogans, and building roads. Would rather see the NBNCo going ahead. Just used the figures re carbon tax, that the fact finder to be false.

  111. Sounds very much like a stacked audience. Nurse asking that question????????

    Moderator, interrupting all the time.

  112. Not shutting any Medicare Locals, but forgot to say, they are having a audit commission into them. WHY????????

  113. Why does not Abbott say, that under Gonski, it is the independent child,not any school that the government supports.

    .Abbott bought up the Independent PS. Be aware.

  114. Howard government was to demolished the Commonwealth Dental scheme. Yes, I remember that, and replaced it one, that gave more to the well off, and became more unfordable. Cost went through the roof.

    Rudd given hard questions first. Abbott the easy ones.

  115. Abbott back on commitments, that his government voted against, As for the pre-schools, the ABC preschool disaster to stop to those.

  116. Stop the boats, stop the carbon tax. Quote coming from the direction of the lounge room: What a lying little sh*t face he is.

    That one is hard to dispute.

  117. For stuff’s sake Summo more businesses shut down under Howard than under Rudd/Gillard, and one ran government in a record boom the other in a financial downturn.

    Will you be crying foul when businesses close under Abbott, which they will? Of course not,

    Blinkered, you are the epitome of an ideologically blinkered person.

  118. and after that, is it any wonder The LNP is $1.04 and Alp is $10.00 & drifting. You wanted rudd, you’ve got rudd and you can keep rudd. i’d wish you good luck on the 7th, but really, what’s the point? you have rudd….lol….oh & the huge majority of the alp who walked out 8 or 9 weeks ago when you brought him back. is it any wonder that they are silent and disgusted. let me say this.(Quote rudd) NO. the bloke is a buffoon and you wonder why the alp is about to be flogged?

    oh how I wish you could find someone worthy? at least they could lead an affective opposition. at this rate all you have is some lisping goose called elbow and his angry lapdog shorty who cannot keep his pecker zipped. thankfully bowen will be gawwn 😉
    .

  119. And that’s it in a nutshell for you Summo, and the illustration of what a bereft human being you are. It’s not about the good of the country or its people, it’s all about winning because you are still dummy spitting over the last lost and probably from the day Howard go booted.

  120. ME. Please continue with your lies. Australians know that more small businesses closed their doors under Rudd/Gillard/Rudd than ever before. Believe what you want. We know the truth. Under an Abbott Govt, we will be better off. You see ME, LNP has a history of supporting small business and the 3 million people employed in that sector. another 3 years of rudd/elbow/rudd/shorty/ and its anybody’s guess who is next,..where is Latham these days?…would flog us to death under it’s proven mismanagement and hit or miss, on the run, back of the envelope policies.

    Hey there’s a alp though bubble…bring back loudmouth Latham. offer him big union money.

    nowonderwelaugh 😉

  121. Latham seems to be in a good place these days. At least he was man enough to recognized he was immature, and needed to grow up. In fact Latham says much to day, which is good. Yes, he did grow, unlike Abbott.

    summo, you could be correct about an Abbott government, time will tell.

    Still, the evidence that is all about us, I am not willing to give Abbott nay type of leg up.

    Why are you and your ilk, so angry, when people do not agree with you? Why? I cannot understand that. After all, it is only your opinion. If Abbott gets in, I might even start praying again, that you are correct.

    People are allow to disagree.

  122. Thank you FE. I agree we are all allowed to disagree, thus my post last evening. It’s ME and others of his ilk that you may like to pose a similar question to. Bullies are only bullies when they are in a gang from my experience. This should be all about fun.

    I enjoyed the debate, although I agree with you, neither of them are convincing. I wish just one would drop the facade and be who they really are.

    Have a lovely evening FE. 😉

  123. summo, sometimes I believe that you are just too miserable, to ever be able to laugh. Why is that so? Why the hate?

  124. No summo, you are wrong. Your behavior and comments attract the abuse you get. You start it. You bring it on yourself.

  125. Oh come off it Summo, you have offered no sources, no links, just lots of generalisations of apparently speaking for whole groups with nothing to back it up.

    We know where the lies lie.

  126. summo, you do not add to any debate, At least, I have not seen any contributions that suggest you do.

    Hint, stick to facts and policies. Leave the personal and name calling out of it.

  127. Summo, ….. what are your thoughts on the following 😀 … I’m interested to know…. no really 😯 … 😆
    1. troll stays polite
    2. pretends to have a reasoned debate
    3. Posts outrageous pieces prolifically.
    4. Doesnt object to being called a fool
    3. Repeats step three

  128. I am a small business owner. I am continually told by Tony Abbott and people like scummo and scarper that I will be better off under a Coalition govt. I have asked repeatedly how…no answer. I have read the pamphlet and I am told that they will save us a billion by cutting out red tape. Anyone want to specifically tell me what? By far the greatest burden for me is GST recording and monthly BAS. I see some rot about letting us do a yearly statement. Well since the govt owes ME every month that ain’t gonna help. I have also heard both sides say they will sort out my staff’s super if I send it to them. I still have to do all the working out and rather than just paying online I have to fill in MORE paperwork to send to them for them to then pass on? Tell me what I am missing here. How is that not making my job harder?

  129. Kaye, I am sure you would love some of the things that Hockey is clawing back today, to save money. All things, I believe help the tiny businesses. listed it earlier.

    Hockey also lied, not all connected to the MRRT, The MRRT by the way, is bringing some revenue in.

  130. FU I have read all that stuff. None of it benefits my business. Yes I took advantage of the 6,500 write-off but that is such small change it isn’t worth discussing. They are talking about a billion saved for small business through red tape reduction. I want to hear specifically what red tape and how it benefits me and how they arrived at that figure.

  131. Democracy requires we make informed decisions. We are entitled to know the facts.
    Abbott says he is a “Man with a Plan” but doesn’t let us know if, or how it will work, or who will pay for his plan.

    Abbott is stealing democracy by bombarding us with the the appeal to ignorance, to prejudice, and the brutality of the negative political campaign the lies and misrepresentations, the repetitive slogans and half truths, that he has done, for the last three years.
    Those people who had their tax threshold raised (one million of them) are now to be taxed once again. That has got to be, a handy $2 Billion. His “signature” paid parental leave policy will see some shareholders and self-funded retirees lose money under the 1.5 per cent levy on business that would be imposed to partly fund the scheme.

    “Fix the economy” means nothing to me, unless I know the how.

    Tony Abbott displays his great weakness each time he reverses same slogans and half truths, the sneers, which dragged down Julia Gillard. This is what we have heard him say for three years inside and outside parliament. 

    Now because of focus group advice to switch to “positive single message”, Tony Abbott projects his failings onto Kevin Rudd. 

    (Projection was conceptualised by Freud in his letters to Wilhelm Fliess, and further refined by Karl Abraham and Anna Freud. Freud considered that in projection thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings that cannot be accepted as one’s own are dealt with by being placed in the outside world and attributed to someone else. What the ego repudiates is split off and placed in another). 

    You seem to be one of those liars we often meet, who think that the words they utter are true because they came out of their mouth. Delusional is the word I’m looking for!

    Sorry Tony it aint working. People can see right through 

    you. You are seriously ill, my man

    “I am prepared to submit myself to the judgement of the Australian people”.
    That is very BIG of you Tony. It’s called an election.
    But you do need to take us into your confidence and let us understand what you are on about !!

  132. Kaye Lee @ 9:20 pm

    In regards to super and GST, I was under the impression that products such as MIOB does this all for you automatically once you set it up initially, or am I missing something? I have heard that setting it up can be a pain, but, once done, it is pretty trouble free after that. Just throwing it out there in case it helps 😉

  133. MYOB Tom.

    We have an outside accountant come in at least once a week to help with MYOB for our in house accountant, but the company I work for is fairly complex in its structure and dealings.

  134. Quote coming from the direction of the lounge room: What a lying little sh*t face he is.

    Migs :shock ❓

    🙂 😉

  135. As to the libs being the friends of business, who needs enemies when you have freinds like this

    The decision to hit business – mostly small business – with $4.6 billion of tax hikes was politically shrewd. Not one business lobby came forward on Wednesday to criticise the Coalition’s new taxes on its members. They would have screamed had Labor done the same.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/abbott-to-hit-business-with-hikes-20130828-2sqxy.html#ixzz2dJ6JWTbH

    Too right they would have screamed. They are still screaming about Labor requiring that firms claiming FBT on car use actually USE the car for work. Stupid Fat Labors 😯

  136. Stands for Mind Your Own Business, and it is a very good financial and company management tool, widely used by businesses. I think it’s origin was Australian, but I might be wrong on that.

  137. I’ve also seen the GetUp ad about Murdoch. It’s brilliant. Exactly what the political world in Aust has been crying out for for years. Finally, progressives standing together & taking on the source of the problem with political coverage.

    It is a MUST that everyone here does whatever they can to spread the word about the ad before the election. Only 9 days to go. Even better – chip in some dough to pay for even a second or two of airtime on the commercial TV channels. This could be a gamechanger.

    Keep it going CW.

  138. Will you keep Labor’s tobacco excise increase?

    I’m not sure Min, eyes a bit blurry this time of the morning, just seeking some clarity 😉

  139. Considering that our Housing Market is still fluid, our restaurants are still full, our cafes still serving Latte’s, I would suggest that the economy is rolling along nicely

  140. As far as the cigarette tax goes I think smokers have well and truly contributed to the tax coffers over the past 6 years. Considering that Obesity leading to Diabetes is now the biggest killer, will the government tax all fast food outlets along with companies that manufacture diabetes in a bottle, viz. Coca-Cola that are undoubtedly contributing to this epidemic?

  141. And under the Rudd/Gillard government (reposted)

    National Broadband Network
Disability Care
Better Schools
Carbon Pricing + compensation +
    falling emissions
Record increase to Pensions
Tax-free threshold up from $6,000 to $18,200
School kids bonus
Record Infrastructure spend
$10b Green Energy fund
7000 more GP’s than 2007
More doctors, more surgeons, more nurses and more beds
Better Aged Care
Better Mental Health
Flexible Child Care
Fair Work Commission
Equal pay for Community Workers
Record spending on Education
My School
National curriculum
World’s largest marine parks
First Murray Darling water plan in a hundred years
Paid parental leave
Plain Paper Packaging
CSG environmental protection
National Sorry Day
National Apology to The Stolen Generations
National Apology for Forced Adoptions
Royal Commission into Child Sexual Abuse
Seat at the UN
Superannuation to 12%
Support for Manufacturing
Lower interest rates saving the average household $6000 pa
Among the lowest debt in OECD
Low unemployment
Increased productivity
Wealthiest country per capita in the world
Amongst the world leaders in low sovereign risk
21 years of sustained national growth
11 successive years of wages growth greater than inflation
14% national growth since the GFC
3 AAA credit ratings for the first time.
Lower tax to GDP than Howard
Record investment
Record terms of trade
over 900,000 jobs created
    Rep

  142. Yep. I bet Pell is praying hard for a Abbott win. This year has not been good for him, but there is much worse to come.

  143. Yes, imo, Pell is dodge for sure. What about the AFT arresting 24 Asylum Seekers who have been caught in the people smuggling of some 300 boats since leaving the detention centres. These are the so called ‘good guys’ that just needed a second chance. Interestingly enough the Murdoch Press did not cover this story on their news broadcasts, I caught it on SBS World News.

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