198 comments on “Prime Minister Who?

  1. One should wait, until one is across that line. One only has to look at PEPO today, Within a month, and the budget is no longer bleeding, Very small difference, but shows economy is turning,.

    All the lies are coming home to roost, as they always do. That seems to be a lesson Tony and his cohorts never learnt as a child.

    The fun and games should now be over, and it is time after three or more years of campaigning, for Tony now to get down to serious business, Time for policies, with details and maybe costings, Not much to ask,

    Sick of being being told we need to wait, Could not care what happened in the past.. I want the facts now.I want top know what is going to be cut. I want to know what red and green tape is to go. I want to know what you intend to do, to balance FairWork back towards the employer.

    I want to know, how you will fund Direct Action.

    Mr. Abbott, all I want to know is the details and how you are going to implement your policies. In fact,I would love to know what are policies and what are your inspirational proposals. Are the inspirational proposals also promises.

  2. We are all underdogs.
    Kevin Rudd believes he is the underdog and Abbott has said the same.
    Why is it so good to be the underdog? Think everyone is really sick of this
    Election business, can well understand. We have been in quasi Campaign mode
    since Gillard announced the 7sept date way back in Feb. Business has been
    the biggest loser but no one seems to care. Probably a contributing factor to
    the 2.5% RBA rate at present.

  3. do you mean this man, the one that wants not only to be PM, but to be seen as the infrastructure PM.

    ‘………..We know this do we? This just goes completely unchallenged and is gospel truth is it? Well here is what I know.

    In August of 2012 Tony Abbott did indeed go to Cape York, but it wasn’t for a week or two as Mr Pyne suggests. It was for 2 days! It was a working bee of sorts and some of Australia’s business leaders were taken along to volunteer as well. Photos of Abbott with tools in hand were taken and the myth of Abbott the saviour of the Black man had a wonderful photo op. No problem so far until you examine the Expenditure on Entitlements paid by the Department of Finance and Deregulation to Mr Abbott for this trip of “Volunteering”. And what do we find on page 12? An amount of $9,636.36, tax payer dollars, to fund the hire of a private charter flight for the 2 days. I don’t know about you, but when I volunteer to hammer in a few nails for a day or two I don’t ask the people of Australia to cough up 10k. That isn’t volunteering, that is the most expensive labourer in the history of Australia. I wonder what the sandwiches cost….(http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/docs/P31/ABBOTT_Tony.pdf page 12.)

    So was this a once off? Not on your life!

    On another one of his trips to an Indigenous Community Mr Abbott was off to sell his version of the Wild Rivers Legislation to the traditional owners it would impact. Not quite volunteering as such, but policy is good and spending time in Indigenous communities is to be encouraged if it results in consultation that means that locals get their message across and this results in positive policy changes. So just how much did Mr Abbott listen to the local people of the Indigenous community he visited? How much was this reflected in his policy? Because hey, we know (or are told) he has the ear of the Black man…

    ”We do not support his shonky Bill,” said activist Murrando Yanner of the Carpentaria Land Council. ”We think it is badly drafted and legally unenforceable.” ”He will leave unhappy,” said Mr Yanner, who supports the existing Wild River legislation. ”His new Bill is a dogs breakfast.’

    Well, that didn’t go to plan. It was neither volunteering nor listening to the locals. No harm in trying I suppose and if you spent the week out in the community helping it has some purpose, but little use if the status quo is maintained and you ignore the wishes of the people you supposedly assist. Well there is some harm and it wasn’t for a week. The harm comes in the form of another private charter flight, cost to the tax payer, $32,545.00. Because nothing says I volunteer to help those in need like a 30k ride in a jet. Oh and that week or two Pyne talks about? That trip that cost we the tax payer $32,545.00 in flights alone, was for just one night! (http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/docs/T28/ABBOTT_Tony.pdf p29)

    http://1deadlynation.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/abbott-the-truth-and-cost-of-his-indigenous-volunteering/

  4. On another one of his trips to an Indigenous Community Mr Abbott was off to sell his version of the Wild Rivers Legislation to the traditional owners it would impact. Not quite volunteering as such, but policy is good and spending time in Indigenous communities is to be encouraged if it results in consultation that means that locals get their message across and this results in positive policy changes. So just how much did Mr Abbott listen to the local people of the Indigenous community he visited? How much was this reflected in his policy? Because hey, we know (or are told) he has the ear of the Black man…

    ”We do not support his shonky Bill,” said activist Murrando Yanner of the Carpentaria Land Council. ”We think it is badly drafted and legally unenforceable.” ”He will leave unhappy,” said Mr Yanner, who supports the existing Wild River legislation. ”His new Bill is a dogs breakfast.’

    Well, that didn’t go to plan. It was neither volunteering nor listening to the locals. No harm in trying I suppose and if you spent the week out in the community helping it has some purpose, but little use if the status quo is maintained and you ignore the wishes of the people you supposedly assist. Well there is some harm and it wasn’t for a week. The harm comes in the form of another private charter flight, cost to the tax payer, $32,545.00. Because nothing says I volunteer to help those in need like a 30k ride in a jet. Oh and that week or two Pyne talks about? That trip that cost we the tax payer $32,545.00 in flights alone, was for just one night! (http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/docs/T28/ABBOTT_Tony.pdf p29)

    So when weeks are days and days cost tens of t…………

    http://1deadlynation.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/abbott-the-truth-and-cost-of-his-indigenous-volunteering/

  5. Leader’s gaffe during Australian election campaign: No one is ‘suppository of all wisdom………..

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/leaders-gaffe-during-australian-election-campaign-no-one-is-suppository-of-all-wisdom/2013/08/12/7e21802a-0332-11e3-bfc5-406b928603b2_story.html

    CANBERRA, Australia — In a gaffe that has attracted plenty of media attention in the heat of Australia’s election campaign, opposition leader Tony Abbott told a gathering of conservative party faithful on Monday that no one is “the suppository of all wisdom.”

    Abbott appeared unperturbed by tittering among journalists and Liberal Party supporters and continued to speak earnestly in a speech in the southern city of Melbourne.

    Abbott, a Rhodes scholar, apparently meant to say “repository” — a storage place — rather than a medication inserted in the rectum.

    He has been criticized for making some public scatological comments in the past and is battling a public perception that he is not prime minister material. He made the gaffe while attacking Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s reputation for making decisions without consulting colleagues.

    “You don’t get good decisions.

    Well he is getting well known on the world stage, and he has not even been elected

  6. Tony is Blessed. Rudd, Gillard then Rudd again. Who at Labor Central Casting picks these nongs?

    from sunny downtown Cartegena….

  7. Espana. SA next year maybe…. if funds, health and boat willing.
    …google Cala Cala Cerrada Spain…..sleep over last night

  8. If Abbott’s in Tweed then your funds and health will be fucked as he wrecks the economy and privatises health making people pay through the nose for it.

    Bank on it.

  9. Fed up August 14, 2013 @ 12:12 am

    If you was in business you would be broke within six months!

    I’ll be sipping fine wines looking over the harbour from Cremorne Point. My mate is a fine wine dealer, has over 8,000 bottles in his cellar. I’ll be supplying the cigars.

  10. I see that the Libs will put the Greens last on the how to vote cards. Oh, lost count of the times that people here have said that Labor will win. Got the Passion Pop on ice, lefties?

  11. Time Liealot’s rorting of travel allowances & lies about his so called “couple of weeks or so” in Indigenous communities were exposed.

    Makes Slipper’s $900 look like pretty small potatoes by comparison.

    No wonder scapet’s scally mate wants a Liars government. It’ll be open slather for all thr crooks & spivs tp milk the country dry.

  12. Funny how certain people who post here don’t have a problem with Abbott having been caught with his fingers in the till. They talk crap about running a business and ignore facts. We run two small businesses and are dreading the LNP getting into office as any one with any nouse would. Their track record is terrible.

  13. Sounds like your so called businesses are sucking off the government teat. To say that the Libs have a bad track record is nonsense. I’ve never seen business confidence so low but things are sure to pick up if these economic illiterates are turfed out.

    Business operates despite governments.

  14. I’ve instructed my doctor to put me into a self induced coma if Abbott wins this election and not to wake me until he and his right wing loonie tunes have been consigned to the rubbish bin.

  15. Got the Passion Pop on ice, lefties?

    Funny how when right wingers are told the fallacy of their point of view or policy suggestion, lefties are latte sipping champagne set elitists.

    But when a right winger feels the need to stereotype all lefties as bogans, it’s the “passion pop”.

  16. Mr Scaper, the reason why capitalism has gone crunch of late is due to the now inescapable global warming ie. North Pole looking like a lake!

    People with any sense and intelligence know to not go out madly spending and consuming. Thus the building industry has slowed right down, retail is ailing. Get it!
    Perhaps you don’t and lots of you are in denial. Just have to look at all of those lone drivers tearing around burning fuel, They don’t get it too.

    It is the end game of life as we know it. Yes I know it’s rather scarey that Kevin Rudd had to call it “We need a new way”, He is so right. Go look at the red list for threatened environments around the world. We seem to have a very high number on the list.

    Please grow up and realize that ultra conservative parties yearning for the 50s are heading for dinosaur status.

    We don’t need to blindly follow the UK into a punishing type of govt. when we have done so well through the Global Financial Crisis. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot, mate. No recession here yet. But you bet we’ll get one if the LN Coalition are voted in. How dumb could Aussie be, to do this!

  17. I’ve never seen business confidence so low

    And since it is the same in much of the world, is Labor also in control of those countries? Your so informed Scraper.

  18. Am I Having a really Bad Dream, Australians voting for this Most Unworthy Man to Lead this country, So Many Gaffes In His track record “Shit Happens ” Being the Most Noteworthy, And His Riley Moment when He couldn’t even think of a lie quick enough,, Too many to mention here, And Yet Our National Media Never Knock him down, Quite Incredible reaction from them, , Our Potential PM Running from Parliament during his Pursuit of Craig Thomson , What a role Model, and then there are his Mates, Mirabella, Both Bishops, Abetz, Morrison and Pyne, and the List goes on , Unbelievable that this man is so close to Being PM

  19. But Rudd and you loyal lefties said that we were saved from the GFC. Can’t have it both ways in the real world.

    What are you on about? I think you may have a major malfunction. Did we have a recession? A simple yes or no will suffice.

  20. A stupid question, bevan. We did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth which is the definition of recession.

    A question for you, is the construction and manufacturing sector in recession?

  21. We did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth which is the definition of recession.

    Wow, I completely missed that in the news. Please A) Provide a link where treasury, the RBA, or banks say we are in recession or B) Admit you are lying and drawing a low bow.

  22. Not very bright, are you? We did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth.

    Another question bevan, how is the retail sector fairing? Still waiting for an answer to the others, too.

  23. Not very bright, are you? We did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth.

    Look, i am happy to admit I made a mistake………if you can just post that link. Or alternatively admit you are a liar.

  24. What, still no answers to my questions???

    I see only babble. What would you like answered?

    We did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth.

    Annnnd, anytime you want to back your assertions with facts , by providing a link, would be good.

    Show who admitted we are in recession.

  25. A question is a sentence with that curly thing at the end. There are three that you have not bothered to answer.

    I say again, we did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth.

  26. Please provide links for your assertion we are in recession Scraper and stop trying to derail the thread with circular arguments.

  27. The man that wants to be a infrastructure PM, is once again showing his true colours. In such a way the he has become the favorite of the comedian Oliver on the Daily Show in the USA. Being sent up daily. Wonder what “dad” moment will Abbott come up with today, to give Oliver more script for his show.

    Mr. Rudd is correct, if Abbott had told a employer that they hade sex appeal, in the work place, they would be in trouble.

    We have Mr. Abbott it appears, saying that he sees the Cando government as a model, where strong decisions are made. Who wants a Queensland LNP government?

    Once again, that man who wants to be the infrastructure PM, has said, he expects Labor to roll over and pass his legislation to rescind the CEF. Why would he believe this to be so. Mr. Abbott, has control and responsibility for only one vote, his. The other 149 MP have a responsibility to voter on behalf of the electorate, that voted for them.

    Mr.Abbott has a responsibility to work within the parliament that the voters elect. He does not have the right to walk away from a minority government. To do so, is abusing the will of the voters.

    Mr. Oakeshott stated it well this morning ABC Local radio. He reminded people that the PM is NOT elected. What is elected is 150 local members, that then have the responsibility to make the parliament on their behalf. Minority are as legitimate under the Constitution, as majority.

    Now to the present minority government, in the schemes of things, has been successful.

    It has run it full term. It has passed three supply or budgets, in full and need record time. It has done much work, much bipartisan. It has been responsible for many reform bills, that previous majority governments has found to hard.

    Abbott is wrong to say he will not be a player in a minority. That is not his choice. He has a responsibility to respect the will of the voter.

    I am sure the Australian voter is not as stupid, as the man that wants to be infrastructure PM thinks we are.

  28. Mr. Abbott claims his promise to do away with all the CEF legislation is a mandate. Mr. Abbott it is not. Each elector gives their local MP a mandate to vote on their behalf. If that electorate votes against Abbott, that means they do not support getting rid of the so called carbon tax. It means they do not want the Direct Action scheme of Abbott. That is the mandate, the only mandate the MP m

    Politics always is the art of the possible. If Abbott does not have the numbers, he does not get his legislation through.

    Each MP is elected in their own right, and have equal power, whether in the lower or upper house. Sorry Mr. Abbott. you will have to do deal with other MPs, whether in the lower or upper house. This is the way it always works. This is the way it has always been.

    Mr. Abbott, I know, likes to make the rules to hos own liking. I am afraid Mr. Abbott, like every other PM, will have to obey they rules that exist. Sorry, Mr. Abbott, no one will roll over, so you can have your own way. You still haver to get their votes. No other way.

    That is how our democracy works.

    Milne has it right, Abbott is to busy looking in the rear mirror, looking back to wherever we have been.

    Milne, Abbott is saying, he wants a majority government, that is he does not fget his own way, will push us back to another election.

    Mr. Abbott has a responsibility to make any Parliament that voter votes for, to make it work. That is his responsibility.

  29. There is no evidence we are in recession. In fact, all that is available shows the opposite, and even that we could be turning upwards.

  30. Prove that I said we were in recession. I said that I have not seen business confidence so low. If you think things are so rosy I suggest you Google Australian business confidence…it is not that hard, even for a lefty.

    Definition of recession: A period of general economic decline; typically defined as a decline in GDP for two or more consecutive quarters.

    I say yet again, we did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth. Boy, you lefties are dumb!

  31. Mr. Abbott has thrashed our parliament for the last three years. Now he is saying, if we do not vote, as he demands, he will thrash out vote. Do we want our democracy to be thrashed in such a way. I hope not.

    As for forming a minority government, the 2010 results, show that tis beyond him. He just does not have ability or nous to do so. Not even when he said he was willing to sell a certain part of his body. The part where he said, all his knowledge is based.

    If the voters deliver a close vote, Mr. Abbott, you have a duty, to do all to get the parliament to work, with the numbers the voters have given you. Nothing in the Constitution, that says governments have to be in the majority. All the Constitution is concerned about, is the vote on the floor of the lower house.

    Mr. Abbott, it is time to stop the stunts, time to get serious, and tell us what you want to deliver, to tell us the details, not just slogans. Time to laid it all on the table.

  32. Business confidence is up on todays figures. Share prices high, some at record high. . The budget slightly better. Ore prices up.

    Yes, the global economy is fragile, but we are definitely not in recession. We still have growth, albeit a little slow.

    Abbott back on a majority government that failed. Mr. Abbott, on all fronts, you are wrong. It was as successful as most majority governments.

    It appear that business activity falters before every election.

  33. scaper have you noticed that the Opposition has little to say about yesterdays PEPO.
    Do you know why. The truth is that it disproved all that they have been saying. In fact the Opposition should be making apologies to Treasury, for the comments they have made over months, comments that PEPO proved have no basis.

  34. Michael, the USA seems to think our politics make good comedy, especially our Opposition leader. They have had a laugh across the ditch and in the UK as well. I believe there has been some comment in France.

    Have we ever had an Opposition leader that has been so widely reported, causing so much mirth before.

    Not for his wit or policy, but for his “dad”: moments as Abbott called it.

  35. Prove that I said we were in recession.

    It appears I misinterpreted your babble. Interpretation is difficult when you make abstract and random statements. Why did you say this?

    But Rudd and you loyal lefties said that we were saved from the GFC.

    If we were not saved from the GFC, wouldn’t that imply we went into recession?

    I say yet again, we did not have two consecutive quarters of declining growth.

    Growth, while most other countries are in massive debt vs GDP, are getting bailed out, unemployment skyrocketing and have terrible credit ratings, would indicate we are doing pretty damn good under the current global conditions wouldn’t it?

  36. Greg, a man that said this morning, he sees the Cando model, as the one to follow. because he is decisive and makes the hard decisions.

    Mr. Abbott, please tell us what those hard decisions are before we vote, not after.

  37. Have we ever had an Opposition leader that has been so widely reported, causing so much mirth before.

    Rudd was right to say, if this happened in the private sector, the employer would be in trouble. Obviously not, if the female was applying for a job with a modeling agency, or strip joint. But for a federal political party, where intelligence is probably a more desired attribute?

    It just highlights the way he thinks about women. The guy is clueless.

  38. We live in a very unstable global economy, one that we cannot control, but only react to.

    The Labor government has proven over six years, it has the ability to adopt new policies, that relation to the circumstance of the time. That is what is need for the future. We have just lived through he greatest changes over the last decade, that the world has seen. Great changes on all fronts.

    We need a leader that is flexible enough to respond to the changes as they occur.

    Mr. Abbot has proudly told us, no mattered what happens, he never changes his mind. That is frightening,. He see strength in being closed mind and an inability to change.

    Mr. Abbott did not accept the last election result, and I suspect the 2007 as well. He is now telling us, he will not accept this one.

    Mr. Abbott seems to believe it is winner takes all. It is not, those who do not vote for him, also have a right to be heard. More so, when that vote is close, not less.

  39. Sorry about that scaper. My mistake. Was more interested in getting my content across. I do hope the readers forgive me.

    scaper, at least I do put up facts. unlike you.

  40. Abbott must be having trouble, to revert back to he will not support a minority government, and threatening a DD election as soon as he can.

  41. So repty, where did I say that Australia is in recession? Talk about dumb.

    On another note…I daresay the champagne will be flowing two days before the election. The evil IPA is having an event in Brisbane. We will conspire to enslave all you wage slaves and $2 a day is too much.

  42. Listen to ABC 24 NPC. On older people. One does not hurt not seek facts.

    It appears that the dysfunctional government has not done that bad. Can do better, but progress made.

  43. Wonder we have not heard of all those low income earners, that thanks to this government, do not have to put in a tax return this year. I am sure it is a task that many will not miss.

  44. It appears that the dysfunctional government has not done that bad.

    Considering that other countries had little to no debt and are in a worse position than we are, yes.

  45. A penis in a glass of red wine, awkward kisses and a political candidate who thought Islam was a country – what’s not to marvel at?
    America’s The Daily Show poked fun at the brevity of Australia’s election campaign, with its host in awe of how much political scandal could be packed into four weeks.
    The political comedy show, currently hosted by British comedian John Oliver while host Jon Stewart is on leave, did a segment on “DOWN-UNDERcision 2013”.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/daily-show-pokes-fun-at-australian-elections-20130814-2rv7j.html

  46. In case you missed it: John Oliver keeps nailing targets as understudy host for The Daily Show With Jon Stewart, with his latest geographically-relevant segment in which he – quite rightly – takes aim at the farcical gaffe-fest that has been Australian politics in the lead up to the election.

    Thanks to a massive team effort by Australian politicians Oliver has no shortage of categorically embarrassing material to choose from. He touches on the gamut of recent fuck ups including but not limited to: Liberal Party candidate Jaymes Diaz’s train wreck attempt to explain HIS OWN POLICIES, Peter Dowling’s regrettably graphic sext scandal (“That is disgusting,” says Oliver. “You do not pair a penis with red wine.”), and poorly informed One Nation candidate Stephanie Banister who Oliver describes as “turbo [Sarah] Palin”.

    This is simultaneously great and terrible…..

    http://www.pedestrian.tv/news/arts-and-culture/watch-john-oliver-tear-apart-australian-politics-o/95e5e1d4-50c4-4205-86fe-131b6b984dad.htm

  47. With hindsight, GG should have sacked this guy last year for being a threat and menace to our democracy. How to get rid of Tony Abbott?

  48. “Considering that other countries had little to no debt and are in a worse position than we are, yes.

    Do you have any examples Bob?? And we were doing fine in 2007. You have to go back to the 1970’s to see what 4% unemployment looked like.

    Our wonderful economy in 2007 did not stop people voting for a new government.

  49. Abbott now on, with their youngest MP. It appears that there is to be investment in netball. In fact, the baby MP sounds more grown up, than his elder leader

    Abbott still demanding that Rudd deny the will of the voters.

  50. So those who vote for the Greens are fringe dwellers. I thought they were Australian voters, that vote has the same value as mine and MR. Abbott.

    So Mr Abbott is not going to accept the will of the voter for the third time. Do we want another six years, of an Opposition that does nothing more than set out to destroy the government the will of the voter, has put in place.

    Mr.Abbott, it appears, only believes in democracy, if it gives him what he demands.

    I have no love for the Greens and other small parties, but they have a RIGHT TO EXIST AND ARE AS LEGITIMATE AS THE MAIN PARTIES.

    Why does Abbott feel he needs to trash our democracy, to win?

    scaper, I take it you are in business. I have a question to ask, that has confused me for sometime. If in business, where do you get the time to be here all day and night. Does the business run itself.

    I say this, as a retiree, living alone, in my seventies, I find it hard to keep up.

  51. “A question for you, is the construction and manufacturing sector in recession?”

    Australian construction industry has been growing with a steady rate over the last decade. From an income of around $ 100,000 million dollar in 2008-09 to an income of nearly $ 300,000 million in 2011-12, the industry has seen significant growth.

    The Australian government spent a great amount of money in the form of stimulus packages to support construction and other industries post recession. The construction industry figures in 2013 look relatively better than they were 5 years ago. However, they have not changed significantly. Non-residential construction has started to gain a slow momentum and residential construction sector is also showing positive growth trends. Institutional construction sector is performing better in 2013 due to efforts made by the government to invest in development of educational institutions.

    The Australian government spent a great amount of money in the form of stimulus packages to support construction and other industries post recession. The construction industry figures in 2013 look relatively better than they were 5 years ago. However, they have not changed significantly. Non-residential construction has started to gain a slow momentum and residential construction sector is also showing positive growth trends. Institutional construction sector is performing better in 2013 due to efforts made by the government to invest in development of educational institutions.

    Economic reports suggest that the Australian government will spend approximately US$ 16 billion on revolutionizing education in the years to come. This opens up new avenues for construction industry. These positive signs in growth of construction industry are due to the fact that Australia was successful in avoiding the ripple of global recession with its stimulus packages and other economy-boosting strategies.

    Public investment in infrastructure projects has also increased significantly. This has added to the growth momentum of construction industry. The construction materials and other construction equipment will experience a rise in demand due to developments in construction industry. The rising input costs may play a critical role in acquisition major construction projects by construction companies.

    The future of Australian construction industry looks bright. Economists are optimistic that the positive growth trend in construction sector will continue. The investment by Australian government in educational sector and public investment in construction industry have strengthened the construction industry. The residential market shows signs of growth of around 8% for 2013-2014. The construction industry will create more jobs and also add value in terms of annual income to the overall Australian economy significantly from 2013 to 2015. The government of Australia is also working towards increasing the availability of credit for construction industry.

    The construction industry has experienced a significant growth in employment rate, around 6%. This has helped in creation of jobs.

  52. Do you have any examples Bob??

    Sure, Hong Kong.

    And we were doing fine in 2007.

    Sure, sure. Housing bubble, cost of living going up, inflation on the rise since 2000. Electricty prices on the rise, fuel prices on the rise, deterioration of employee rights. $B’s squandered on middle class socialist hand outs.

    “Working Australians have never been better off”………baaaaahahah. Just so out of touch.

    Anyways Neil. I think it’s time you moved on from 2007. It’s over mate.

  53. “Anyways Neil. I think it’s time you moved on from 2007. It’s over mate.

    Not a great example Bob and you wonder why i have to repeat myself. During Howards reign only some countries (Spain, Canada, NZ) were paying off debt. Most of the larger European countries were racking it up. Howard/Costello did something no Labor govt would have ever done during that time.

    I have come to believe that voting Labor is a substitute religion for you people. That is why facts are irrelevant.

  54. When it comes to same sex marriage, Abbott says he supports evolutionary change, not rapid change, which is the fashion of the moment.

    I thought were most have got to when it comes to Sexual orientation, not as fashion of the moment, but through an evolutionary process. Many have come to where they are very slowly, some kicking and crying all the way..

    I wonder how those who wish to marry their partners, feel like being compared with a momentary fashion, something that will go away with time. Something that does not need to be addressed.

  55. At least GWB ended up quite a wacky and witty comedian. Had that trait unexpressed all along I reckoned. What has Tony got unexpressed, definitely not a sense of humor, although he thinks he is funny. Painful!

  56. Not a great example Bob

    How did I know that whatever information I supplied, would not be adequate for you, as it didn’t come from the LNP website or Murdoch?

    Howard/Costello

    Like I said. Maybe time to move on? I accept you have fond and delusional memories of that time. The people that voted them out…..didn’t. And that is with the might of the MSM propaganda machine behind sir rodent. See, people have this experiment every decade or so where they believe the MSM shite and vote conservatives in, thinking it will be in their interest. It takes a few years to realise they have been hoodwinked and that the Coalition server no one else but corporations.

    Hopefully this time they see through the juggernaut of MSM BS and misinformation for vested interests sake. Because that is the ONLY people the Coalition govern for. Corporate vested interests .

    See, it’s comments like yours which is why i am so anti-conservative.

  57. “I have come to believe that voting Labor is a substitute religion for you people. That is why facts are irrelevant.”

    Neil it is so hard to keep facts down to three words which seems to be the attention span of conservative voters.

  58. The wonderful Pyne is now on, demanding that Rudd does not respect the will of the voter.
    Whining, as usual.

  59. and back to scaper and the manufacturing recession and business uncertainty….

    Mike Devereaux has postponed any commitment on future investment until after the election. He knows if Tony gets in the 500 million subsidy is gone.

    The renewable energy sector has put investment on hold because if Tony gets in that rapidly growing industry is dead.

    The record low interest rates make investment attractive yet are described by the Coalition as an emergency measure. I guess they want investors to pay more?

    The high Aussie dollar has made things tough for manufacture and export industries as well as tourism. That has come down.

    The unions representing the car industry workers negotiated with their members to freeze pay rises and give up some entitlements after consultation with the industry. If we did not have this collective employee representative voice or if they were not allowed access to the workplace I wonder if that could have happened.

    Remind me again how manufacturing will be better off under Tony Abbott?

  60. I love George Bush…like Tony…an endless source of amusement…

    “I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully”

  61. Promised costing and saving so far in the campaign: http://cdn7.crikey.com.au/wp-content/themes/crikey-election/img/cash-tracker-20130814-2.jpg

    Well isn’t this a turn up, and as pointed out elsewhere PEFO is released and still not a single costing or explanation of where the savings from the Coalition are going to come from as promised for a long time now.

    So who are the wasteful spenders? Unless you believe Abbott is an utter liar and has no intention of spending anything of what he promises, instead blaming his own failure on Labor. That’s my prediction.

  62. “It takes a few years to realise they have been hoodwinked and that the Coalition server no one else but corporations.”

    Your insane Bob. Howard years were good times. Anybody who wanted a job could get one. Still waiting for some examples for this statement

    ““Considering that other countries had little to no debt and are in a worse position than we are, yes.”

    You said countries Bob. Your first big lie Bob. That is plural. And Hong Kong is not a country it is part of China. And is Hong Kong doing worse than us??

    Even some rusted on laborites say the Howard economic numbers were good. It was just dumb luck.

    Most of the major European countries were getting into trouble from 1996-2007. We were getting out of trouble. And Labor would have followed Europe if in power from 1996-2007.

    Voting Labor is a substitute for religion for you.

  63. Yes govt support for solar apparently dead in NSW. Westie made sure he mentioned it to me as I was admiring his few solar power panels.

    What is QLD doing? Nothing I bet. SA seems to be the most sustainable. I do believe they have a Labor govt still in over there.

    These panels should be on every roof in this country sponsored by govts., local councils, anyone to get it moving. Yes the way the compact fluorescents and water saving devices were given away. Then it is kaput to coal burning for power forever. Hydro and thermal power takes over for night transmission and liquid salt batteries. Q.E.D. Also that guy who makes oil out of garbage is very cool.

    We dont need mad men like Abbott and his dumbo LN Coalition driving up the doom and fear of the end game just to satiate their greed, sadism. killer instinct, heal their impotence problems or whatever.

    Did you see Abbott’s daughter look down aghast at her father’s commentary yesterday. How to rear a girl up North Shore-Warringah way huh?

  64. Are we any closer to hearing where Coalition costings are coming from , or what they are cutting ?

  65. Abbott’s spending splurge so far, and remember this is on top of $70 billion in unfunded liabilities still outstanding with only $17 billion in shonky savings announced in the last budget reply and in January to offset it.

    3 Aug Penrith Panthers stadium $12m
    13 Aug Mobile Phone Black Holes $100m
    12 Aug Bondi Surf club $500,000
    12 Aug Water Safety Agencies $15m
    12 Aug Midland’s Highway in Tasmania $400m
    12 Aug Brisbane’s Gateway motorway $1b
    12 Aug Pacific highway $5.6b
    12 Aug Adelaide’s North-South Corridor $500m
    12 Aug Sydney’s Westconnex project $1.5b
    12 Aug Queensland’s Bruce highway $6.7b
    12 Aug Melbourne’s East-West link $1.5b
    7 Aug 1.5% company tax cut (over 2 years) $5b

  66. Whilst on business uncertainty….

    A price on carbon has been discussed for many years now. Whether it was Howard’s ETS, or Rudd’s ETS, or Gillard/Greens carbon tax, or Rudd’s ETS tied to the EU…..business knew it was coming. And some of them may even have had enough conscience to realise not only it’s inevitability, but also that it was the RIGHT thing to do.

    When Tony came out with his “figleaf” Direct Action plan I fdon’t think anyone, especially Malcolm Turnbull, took it seriously. I don’t think they thought that we would be the ONLY country in the world to move AWAY from carbon pricing. And thankfully, many took steps to reduce emissions aided by grants from the revenue raised by the carbon tax.

    So the companies that behaved responsibly are now going WTF??? The polluters who have taken NO action are going HOORAYYYYYY!!!!

    Businesses have stopped implementing reforms because they know if Tony gets in they will have been dealt a sucker punch.

  67. Bob. The last I heard a little while ago now in reply to a question about paying for the company tax cuts was Hockey saying the savings had already been detailed in January and the Budget Reply. I believe that was $17 billion, but that’s from memory and could be wrong.

    Trouble is those savings were shaky/shonky from the outset and maligned by political commentators and some economists.

    Abbott and/or Hockey stated there was enough money in the previously announced savings to cover the company tax. These would be the savings that already covered a list of items up to the last dollar with not a dollar to spare, yet all of a sudden $5 billion of those savings can pay for two $5 billion outlays at the same time.

    Somehow Hockenomics has found a way to make one dollar have the value of two dollars up to a limit of $5 billion, when it reverts back to being one dollar of value again.

  68. Yes we did scaper. Please explain., What are you attempting to prove. NO one has denied that, including the government that the economy has not slowed down. One cannot also ignore the effect the high dollars has had on our economy. . In fact, that is the excuse they used last years and up to now, to stop going after a surplus.

    scaper, that is not a recession, as every quarter, there is still growth, as well as job being created. Yes, things have slowed down. It also looks as if, with a little luck, we might be over that hump.

    All are saying, we live in a unstable world economy. One that is not reacting, as it has in the past.

    Yes, our economy is in transitional from the mining boom, to the post GFC one. We do have a problem,in that the dollars might not be coming down fast enough.

    A bigger problem, the elephant in the room, that those on the right are blind to or in denial, is that of the disappearing revenue base. One, no matter who wins the election, will have to be addressed. Have heard nil from Abbott. In fact, I believe him and his cohorts do not accept there is a problem.

    Why is Abbott put with his diversion tactic today, of demanding that Rudd abuse the will of the voter, and take no part in a minority government if the need arise. Is Abbott in strife, or is he just performing to the polls?

    Why are they not running with the PEFO released yesterday, They had plenty to say, up till it was released.

  69. I see some are comparing Abbott to McMahon. I did not believe I would ever say this, but there is now a man that wants to be PM, that could be worse than McMahon, unbelievable as it sounds,

    One did have the comfort in believing that McMahon, would not cause much harm.

    This is not true when it comes to Abbott. This man is capable of great harm to this wonder country of ours.

  70. ME Tony said that the savings announced would pay for cutting the carbon tax (he said that cost about 10 billion) and one other thing which I can’t remember….will try to find. So the majority of his savings go to pay for cutting the carbon tax. It leaves me dumbfounded.

  71. Mr Abbott on Wednesday told John Laws on his 2SM radio program that he was not “someone who wants to see radical change based on the fashion on the moment”, on the issue of gay marriage.

  72. Bob, I might even settle for details of any policy. At least with that information, we might be able to work the costings out.

    Out spruiking all day, that he is not going to be a part of a minority government, if he doesn’t get his own way, will have DD and wiping out the Greens, interests me not.

    Anything but policy details and costings.

    Minority governments, are legitimate according to the Constitution. One does not need to make deals to govern in such cases. Well policy deals that is. One just needs the support of minor parties and independents.

    That is how the Constitution works.

  73. Remember a big part of those savings where the reduction of refugee intake from 20,000 to 13,000. Wonder what our near neighbours think of that. Labor will probably raised the number to nearer $30,000. Expect an announcement next week, after the extraordinary Bali Group meeting.

    Then we have the dumping of the School Kids Bonus.

  74. Howard years were good times.

    Errr, for YOU Neil. For you. You DO realise they lot Neil…don’t you? Why Neil?

    Still waiting for some examples for this statement

    Oh boo hoo Neil. Ive asked plenty of things from you and received silence. Enjoy. You have already shown that no matter what evidence is shown to you, only hearing it from conservative sources is acceptable to you. Bias and rusted on as they come.

    Keating set Howard up with fiscal policy decisions that still serve us today. The country was on auto pilot. Howard just had to sit there and fire sale our assets and create socialist policies. Wizardry.

    It’s time Neil…………..to get over Howard. Justice was served and you cant turn back the clock. As fox news would say, worst government and prime minister EVER! Ever Neil.

  75. For some unknown reason, business always slows down before an election. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for this occurring.

  76. Kaye Lee. In ruling out the GST to blunt Labor’s attacks in that area Abbott has left himself nowhere to go on savings, and yet whilst he’s ruling out all the revenue and savings measures he can implement, nearly everyday he’s also promising hundreds of millions and even billions in expenditure.

    The States, even the Liberal States, must be really worried about Abbott getting in as they see their already blooming deficits skyrocket under him, they can’t do anything but if Abbott is to be taken at his word.

  77. “Keating set Howard up with fiscal policy decisions that still serve us today. The country was on auto pilot. Howard just had to sit there and fire sale our assets and create socialist policies. Wizardry.

    I am getting sick myself of saying the same thing over and over and over again but i have to.

    From 1996-2007 Europe was getting into trouble. And Keating would have done the same.

    Your comments shows you are deluded and there is no hope.

    Goodbye AAA if Labor is re-elected. In fact we may lose it whoever is elected.

  78. I suspect that Abbott is going to be too busy and obsessed in dismounting all that Labor has done, back to Keating in some areas to build or spend anything.

    Abbott seems to get a buzz out of his innate obsession, in destroying all in hos path.

    Building gets short shift from him. Maybe he will be as today, to busy laughing off his mistakes. When is Abbott going to have an outing, where the public cam see him, if not talk to him.

    Those photos took yesterday in the Penrith areas tell us a lot. A handful of people, with locked gates in between. When one looks at the official shots, one would think there was a loud crowd.

    By the way those two boats, with two asylum seekers in the Torres Straits, where disrupted by authorities. They did not land.

  79. Of course Neil. Of course. I get it.

    For Howard, there were other factors . For Rudd and Gillard……GFC Never happened.

    Um, let’s stop talking about Howard eh? Stop derailing threads .

    And lose our triple a? I bet you were saying that when Rudd won the first time.

  80. “And lose our triple a? I bet you were saying that when Rudd won the first time.”

    Usually happens with Labor in power. Just study some history.

    Also the NBN is going nowhere. beats me why anybody believe anything Labor says.

  81. Neil, I notice you keep saying “Look at what Beattie did to Queensland.”

    Would you like to expand on that and tell us “what Beattie did to Queensland.” I’ll remind you before you start that Peter Beattie resigned as premier on 17th Sept 2007…

    You could include for example, the budget surpluses/deficits during his time as premier – perhaps even go into the net debt situation as it stood when he finished up… 😉

    Next you may like to have a look at the transfers from federal to state governments for urgently needed infrastructure at the time. Remember that mining boom you’re always rabbiting on about? Well it was sadly lacking in road, rail and port capacity as advised repeatedly by the Productivity Commission, and skills as warned repeatedly by the RBA. The states were left to try to manage what was a national responsibility by themselves…

  82. I told you. It looks like he lost control of the finances during the biggest boom in Australian history. And the GFC did not hit until late 2008. And Bligh continued the disaster from 2008-2011.

    Any suggestions as to how Newman can get Queenslands AAA back??

    By the way do you think the NBN will be finished before I’m dead??

  83. So its Costello’s fault …

    But I will concede that the GFC – causing massive downturn in tourism, housing and mining – and widespread flooding and Cyclone Yasi played a significant role also…

  84. Try actually looking for facts for a change Neil. I’ll give you a hint: Beattie was running surplus budgets AND the Qld. net debt position was negative in 2007. You don know what “negative net debt” means, don’t you?

  85. Yes Neil, the NBN will be well finished in the early 2020s. as long as Turnbull’s Fraudband doesn’t get a go to stuff things for decades 😀

  86. Neil, what’s the bet you don’t believe in human induced climate change either?

    C’mon, surprise me .

  87. Hope your suppositories of knowledge are firmly in place as many of you may need them when applying for new jobs after Sept 7. Hubris was partly to blame for Howard’s downfall…learn from History…or is that bit missing from the suppository?

  88. “Neil, what’s the bet you don’t believe in human induced climate change either?

    Well if you lot are for it i am generally against it. I am suspicious of the science. But who knows?? Looks like the “evidence” is mainly computer modelling which seems strange science to me.

  89. Trouble is Abbott will cop his comeuppance quick smart. He cant help doing really bad things and he’s been doing them for a long time now. He cant help but self destruct that guy.

    Howard hung in a lot longer through being more staid and stolid, but it got him in the end. Power usurping absolutely that is. Also too much aggro is no good in the long run.

    Abbott is out to destroy the Greens. I vote Labor but I always put the Libs right at the end. Cant bear the arrogance of the Libs, and their elitism. I have been known to vote Greens when it is not going to disturb Labor. If Abbott is so fearful of the Greens they will come up and bite him for sure. He might be in trouble in Warringah as it has become strongly green and into sustainability up there. He might be seeing his own end eh? Green nightmares close to home. LOL

  90. LOL! Just as I suspected Neil. You give this pre tense of being swayed by evidence, being impartial and only supposedly are attracted to the Coalition and conservative ideology in general because you feel it has facts on its side and it’s just got the vibe about it. When in fact, you’re simply a rusted on, epoxy resined, died in the wool, gullible partisan, who will oppose for oppositions sake regardless of facts, because it’s the message you get from your party.

    Just shows what a faker you are. When science is not part of politics and the overwhelming body of science supports the theory of human induced climate change and there isnt a single major scientific institute on the planet who supports your view, yet, you are against it , because “you lot are for it”.

    I’m scared that you and your like are allowed to vote.

    Conservative led governments around the world who arent funded by fossil fuels are all for the science. But here in Australia, where the Coalition is funded by them, they are against it. It’s crap, it’s a hoax. They/you dont know why, it just is… $$$.

    I knew your position before you answered, which is why I said surprise me. Just like Scraper, Voyager and Tweed would also have the same position.

    Partisan and you don’t even have a good reason, except “if you lot are for it, I’m against it”.

    Brainless.

  91. So Abbott believes his female politicians should be there because of their sex appeal and gay love is just a passing fad.

    Those two are 91 years of age and have been together and in love for 61 years.

    The passing fad is Abbott, who is only a fad because large media organisations marketed him, the idiot we can get to be PM fad.

  92. i could hardly believe my ears when today daid he will put the greens last on the ballot paper,saying the last three years under a minority government hasbeen disfunctional,
    who made it so ,with all their hate, lies ,and scare campagns,to bring a government down for their own gain,no attention given to 500 policies which passed through parlament,through a minority government,
    this man is a dangerous fool

  93. Michael, still cannot get the pictures to show up.

    I can understand Abbott’s terror of facing the need to negotiate another minority.

    The electorate will show what it want, by the votes they cast.

    We have had full day of nothing from the Coalition.

    Wong now on, summing Abbott’s day up well. Yes, if he goes off script, he is in trouble.

    ,.

  94. Bob

    I can comment on your link. The first deceit which i have mentioned to you dummies 100 times before is that we are a Federation. You should not compare our Federal govt debt with say France. France is not a Federation. There is just national debt and local govt debt in France. We have three levels of govt. Federal State and Local. And when you compare out 3 levels of govt to Europe while not bad it is not too good.

    We also have one of the fastest rates of increase in the world. Furthermore our interest rate payable on our debt is 5 times higher than Europe is paying. Some European countries have zero interest rates.

    Queensland was AAA rated not that long ago.

  95. Any suggestions as to how Newman can get Queenslands AAA back??

    Any suggestion why Newman increased council debt by 200%? Financial wizard. Economy is ALWAYS better under conservatives and all that shite.

  96. There is just national debt and local govt debt in France. We have three levels of govt. Federal State and Local.

    Yes and who bundles the three levels of government debt together? And why pick on just France?

    Get real Neil.

    Productivity up…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/productivity

    Employed persons up by 1 million
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/employed-persons

    Wages up…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/wages

    GDP per capita up…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-per-capita

    Inflation down…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/inflation-cpi

    Interest rates down (keeps cost of living and doing business down)…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/interest-rate

    Exports up…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/exports

    Balance of trade – into the positive (a very rare occurrence and even rarer under the Liberals)
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/balance-of-trade

    Current Account – less negative…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/current-account

    Household savings – up…
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/personal-savings

    Neil, your so full of shit.

    See, it’s comments like your why I don’t vote conservatives.

  97. France is a republic if my memory serves me correct. It is also divided into 27 administrative regions. . Not to sure if they behave like a federation. Whatever is the case, what are you trying to prove, Do you know?

    It does not mean the joining together of many countries. Well not at least in this case.

    Do you understand what a federation is? Maybe you cam enlighten me, on what your comment means.At least, it is something new from you.

    I think you might be trying to explain that France like most countries in Europe are a European Common Market, and share a common currency. I could have that wrong, but it is at least an attempt to work out what you mean.

    Neil I am not being smart, I am genuinely confused.

    I do not know who you are addressing, or what link you are talking about.

  98. Wouldn’t say I even like GWB. However can appreciate he might have a talent as a stand up comic and had a good speech writer on hand. I was as baffled as anyone with his gaffes and those really dumb WMD lies. He might have been stark raving mad getting sucked in to it all, but he never behaved appallingly towards women as we have seen Tony Abbott do, especially so incessantly towards PM Julia Gillard.

    GWB was at least a gentleman, but then US men have a lot more respect for women than Aussies men do here. It is such a shame we have this dark social slur. Julia Gillard has a very good sense of humor, and a quick wit.
    May be that is what has disturbed the unstable minority among us….including Abbott. Show the guy the door!

  99. I believe it was Thatcher, when she was PM, the first leader to become concerned about carbon emission, and began taking action at the time. The lady was a trained scientist, as well as PM.

    It one believes that carbon emissions caused climate change, and needs to be address, how can they agree with Mr. Abbott, that the CEF legislation needs to be rescinded.

    Legislation that is in place, is working and costing the economy less than predicted.

    Why would any business want this undone, to be replace with Direct Action, that is expensive and few believe will work.

    Why would business welcome years of not being able to plan, plus electoral instability that promise ongoing elections. What harm will that do the economy.

    We hear Abbott, out today, once again promising a DD if he does not get his way. Yes, an election within twelve months, throwing the lower and upper house out of sync. As Menzies found back in the middle of last century, means a election every year or two.

    If one believes we have to cut back on the carbon emission by moving from fossil fuel to renewals, there are not arguments to change the GEF. There is no better of cheaper way to do it.

    The CEF schemes are not destroying the economy or wrecking the budget. In fact, it is contributing to the budget, revenue,

    Is having Abbott worth the trouble?

    Maybe some one can come up with five reasons to get rid of the present CEF legislation. Five reasons why it should be replaced by Direct Action. With Abbott, the two actions go together.

  100. If Abbott gets in, he will deal with the same sex marriage, as Howard did with the republic debate. Claim he is giving people a choice, while muddying the waters, to ensure whatever is put forwarded is defeated. Even Turnbull was conned by Howard with the republic vote..

  101. Bob, I have a feeling that Cando did not intend to increase that debt. I suspect he really did not understand, that austerity budgets, that puts people and businesses out of work, leads to higher debt.

    All it does, is cut the revenues.

  102. Funny, we seem to be having a debate, in spite of Neil. He has even moved off script, even if he got it wrong. That is refreshing.

    Then for the last few days, we see what happens when Abbott also goes off script.

    Wonder what tomorrow’s effort will be.

    We now have Morrison and Burke on ABC 21

  103. We now have the ABC predicting the demise of the Greens.

    Well Bandt is polling around the 48% mark without preferences. So there’s at least one.

  104. Greens need to be very clear about where their preferences will be directed to attract votes…or whether they will leave it up to individual voters to indicate this. Voters need to be repeatedly reminded that marking preference is essential in federal elections. ‘Just Vote 1’ from state elections will confuse many.

  105. ………..Abbott’s commitment is broader – not to lead a minority government at all. Rudd’s commitment is more nuanced. He has stated that he will not enter into a coalition, or negotiate agreements or deals with independents or minor parties in order to form a government.

    Presumably, he would still be prepared to form a minority government without any formal deal with whoever holds the balance of power.

    What does all this mean?

    Would the Australian people be forced back to the polls in another election if neither side wins a majority in the House of Representatives at the election? The most likely answer is ‘No’.

    There is a general principle that the outcome of an election and the will of the people must be respected. Politicians can’t simply reject election results and tell the voters to try again until they get it ‘right’.

    There is an obligation on all parties in a hung Parliament to give effect to the will of the voters and to make government and Parliament work. For this reason, there is a strong constitutional convention that a prime minister who doesn’t achieve a majority of seats in the Lower House at an election cannot simply advise the Governor-General to hold a new election.

    Instead, Parliament needs to be convened and an effort has to be made to form a government and make the Parliament work.

    We saw an example of this in Tasmania in 1989. The Gray Liberal Government won 17 seats, Labor won 13 and the Green Independents won five.

    Labor and the Greens formed an ‘Accord’ supporting a Labor minority government on the budget and issues of confidence. The incumbent premier, Robin Gray, wanted to advise the Governor to hold a new election.

    He argued, among other things, that Labor had promised during the election campaign not to do a deal with the Greens and that to commission Labor would therefore be a fraud on the voters.

    The Governor, rightly, ignored this political argument. The issue for the Governor was who was most likely to hold the support of the lower House. His role was not to judge political morality.

    The Governor told Gray that if he advised an election, it was unlikely his advice would be accepted. When Parliament met, Gray’s government was defeated on the floor of the House, which voted in favour of the formation of a Labor government.

    Gray resigned and the Labor leader, Michael Field, was commissioned to form the new government.

    Can a government be formed and function without any agreement or deal with those who hold the balance of power? Yes.

    While some form of deal or arrangement has been common in recent decades, largely to bolster the claim of one side or the other to form a government, it is not constitutionally necessary.

    A minority government can exist and serve a full term as long as it is capable of passing its budget and is not the subject of a vote of no confidence.

    It is usually in the interests of whoever holds the balance of power to ensure that the Parliament runs for its full term.

    In New South Wales, it was the independents holding the balance of power during the minority Greiner Government, who initiated fixed term Parliaments, to ensure that Parliament went its full term.

    At the Commonwealth level, the independents also sought a guarantee from the Gillard Government that Parliament would run its full term. They made no effort to bring it down, even when promises were breached. To do so would be like turkeys voting for Christmas – once the government is defeated and an election called, cross-benchers lose their power (and perhaps also, their seats).

    So there is a strong political interest for minor parties and independents to maintain the existence of a government in a hung Parliament.

    Finally, what value should we place on election promises not to do deals? Very little – as the Tasmanian example shows.

    In any case, such promises are unrealistic.

    Even governments that have a majority in the House of Representatives end up doing deals and undertaking negotiations in the Senate with minor parties and independents to get legislation through. It is inconceivable that any party, if it formed government after September 7, would not end up negotiating on bills with minor parties and independents on a case-by-case basis.

    Parliament and government is all about negotiation and compromise. That is one of the reasons we have two Houses and a federation, rather than allowing governments to do whatever they want.

    It may be supremely frustrating for a government not to be all-powerful, but it is probably a good thing for the governed.

    Anne Twomey is a Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Sydney. View her full profile here.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-14/twomey—the-hung-parliament-dilemma/4886988

  106. Kaye, that fund is creating work, which means workers pay tax, adding to revenue.

    Yes silly decision on the part of Abbott.

    What’s more, Abbott is going to need similar body for DA. Only difference would how it would be funded.Making policy and economic decisions based on ideology, is not a good look, for any PM, let alone Abbott.

  107. Well Albanese said that they would be looking at preferences, seat to seat, that are in the best interest of Labor. He said Labor wants to win. Nothing about destroying a party there.

  108. I think the rebuild of Labor has commenced. Beattie was clearly not invited back by Rudd. Beattie is the next stage of the faceless men picking the new leadership post Rudd. Crazy logic again from Labor central. Installing Beattie may increase the chances of winning back Forde for Labor but this will be at the expense of raising the Queensland Labor incompetence in EVERY other seat in Queensland. Remember Beattie and Bligh spent billions converting salt water into fresh water, converting sewerage into drinking water and piping this remanufactured sea water and sewerage all around Queensland. It was lunacy at the time and it is lunacy to remind Queenslanders two weeks before an election of this lunacy. It does look like Rudd is Dead Man Walking and the next Federal Labor Leadership episode is well under way………. without Rudd getting a guernsey.
    The disfunction continues.

  109. Toowoomba’s water supply is NOT all around Queensland,….umm, Tweed, … noice cherry pick but….. 🙄 … though it does takes social drinking to an whole new level… 😯 .. eeww 😀 …. but please do remember , Tweed, the desalination plant(s) will come into their own as Climate Change bites!!!

  110. Now LOVO. I can’t absolutely confirm this but I have been told. The desal salesmen still meet for drinks on a Friday evening and the story is endlessly told and has become the holy grail of desal selling of how a young up and coming desal salesman sold a multi billion dollar water maker to Queensland Labor. The bright eyed junior sales guys say but isn’t Queensland in the tropics and get prodigious rainfall…. And why didn’t they build a dam?
    FYI LOVO the life span of a multi billion dollar water maker. Is about 20 years. Something to do with the corrosive nature of salt water…………
    Funny a dam lasts hundreds of years and costs a few hundred million and uses this cute law of physics called gravity to get the water to town.
    Re your Toowoomba comment do I understand you are ok using sewerage for your scotch on the rocks?. Or they redo that Tasmanian beer add exchanging the magical waters from the magical river with sparkling sewerage ?
    Hard sell I think. But they did sell a water maker to Anna and Peter……..

  111. Beattie was clearly not invited back by Rudd

    Nah, ya think? You guys can’t get your story straight. Voyager said it was “captains pick”. https://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2013/08/11/what-did-you-think-of-the-debate/#comment-161960

    At least you have slightly more of a clue.

    Beattie is the next stage of the faceless men picking the new leadership post Rudd.

    I think Labor had it’s collective road to damascus moment earlier a few months back, where they realised the folly of backing Gillard because they liked her and persecuting Rudd because he was disliked, and having no chance at winning the election and having their good policies stay alive. Yes, I imagine there would be analysts on all sides crunching the numbers on which horse has the best chance. Rudd knows this is a one way trip and I doubt whether he really cares what happens after the election if he loses. But I can place money now, on the fact that Beattie would not become PM. Too many others who have done their time there.

    Remember Beattie and Bligh spent billions converting salt water into fresh water, converting sewerage into drinking water and piping this remanufactured sea water and sewerage all around Queensland.

    Yes, I remember it well. The hysteria that we were going to go dry. The demands that a backup water supply in these cases of drought be implemented immediately. The daily hysterical writings in the courier mail saying, why didnt you build desal? Why didnt you do something? Build it quick!

    The massive water restrictions etc etc,

    It was lunacy at the time

    It saved SE QLD from going completely dry you fool. Reminds me of Y2K conspiracy theorists and climate change deniers. Sure, no one would drink the recycled sewerage, which happened to be several magnitudes cleaner than the dam water, but it was used in industry, taking the weight off the dams.

    http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/110381/20100729-0008/www.stoppress.com.au/ALBUMS/SITW/index.html

    The water grid saved Toowomba. Toowoomba went dry. The water grid was completed to that area just in the nick of time and water was pumped day and night from Wivenhoe to give them a buffer again.

    http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/Id/68325

    And ironically the desal plant was used during the floods because of contaminated water supply.

    http://desalination.edu.au/2013/01/desal-plant-providing-critical-drinking-water-supplies-during-queensland-floods/

    And Campbell Newman ironically used the water grid and desal to ensure water supply, when the Mt Crosbt treatment station broke down:

    http://www.qt.com.au/news/seq-residents-urged-conserve-water/1735090/

    Lunacy eh? Imagine if you and the armchair expert brigade were in charge.

  112. Now LOVO. I can’t absolutely confirm this but I have been told. The desal salesmen still meet for drinks on a Friday

    I bet you actually believe it too.

  113. Bob this is how the Liberals do infrastructure built by Labor.

    When in opposition O’Farrell couldn’t criticise the building of the Kurnell desal plant often enough. The State Labor government iterated a policy of only using it if water levels in the dams dropped below a set level, but broke that pledge immediately. There’s good profits in water.

    O’Farrell went ballistic in his condemnation of first the building of a desal plant for such a huge cost and second the breaking of the pledge, all on the back on a raft of promises on usage for droughts, costs etc. for the plant.

    Just like all the other State Liberal government on getting into power, of course O’Farrell broke his promise and then set about royally screwing the people of NSW, a Liberal government speciality.

    The O’Farrell Government has signed NSW up to a deal that will see taxpayers forced to pay $1 billion over five years to the new owners of the Sydney Desalination Plant.

    This is despite the O’Farrell Government only making a $300 million profit from the long term lease of the desalination plant in the first place.

    A NSW Government document, the Proposed Refinancing of Sydney Desalination Plant – Information Memorandum, reveals NSW is to pay between $195 and $202 million in annual payments to the successful bidders for the next five years, when a new price will be negotiated.

    These payments must be made even though the desalination plant is switched off.

    “The O’Farrell Government is selling the desalination plant for a profit of $300 million, but is then going to pay rent of $200 million every year to the new owners.”

  114. Yes Mobius. Maybe they could tell Colin Barnett exactly when it will rain there in WA next and fill the dams above the dire 27% mark. Because Barnett seems to be going nuts for desal at the moment .

    Tell him it’s lunacy tweed.

  115. And Barnett is going into more debt to fund infrastructure Bob, debt that has nothing to do with any past Labor government, just as Barnett’s previous dip in deficit had nothing to do with the previous government.

    I think the right wingers here should immediately post condemnations against the Liberal governments racking up debt and write to those Premiers about their displeasure at them doing so, as they are ruining it for the future generations of those States who will have to pay back all that debt that will turn them into mini Greece’s.

  116. Hockey said an election about costings is boring.

    I guess that means that even though yesterday he said they were crunching the numbers, and many times before that he and Abbott said they were ready there and then to rule, we won’t be seeing any real costings from the Coalition before polling day.

  117. as they are ruining it for the future generations of those States who will have to pay back all that debt that will turn them into mini Greece’s.

    I agree. I’m hyperventilating just thinking about it. Oh lordy lordy. Think about the debt for the children. It’s all out of control now. Spiraling debt, out of control.

  118. I know this is not important but I believe Rudd has added something to that hair. Does not look so smooth and shiny. I am glad, because the action of brushing it back, does become a little annoying.

    Rudd is at last, defending Labor achievements of the last three years. I hope this means he is getting the message.

    Wish he would cease, competing with Abbott in all things. Only gives credibility to some of Abbott’s brain farts, such as developing the north. I am afraid, he has done this today. Is establishing northern economic zone. Last century economics. Rudd, it is not necessary. At least it is more than extending the Ord scheme, which the CSIRO has a;already said, will not be a good investment. Yes, Aborigine land rights have to be altered. Suspected that when Abbott went to the north, promising a new deal for Aborigines.

    So Rudd, believes the way to go is out bidding Abbott. I suspect not. Northern Economic Plan For the Future. Good idea, or giving credibility to Abbott’s scheme. At least there are details. Could this be about what Rudd is about. Forcing Abbott to give costings and details.

    At least Rudd is bringing NBNCo into all announcements. Along with Better Schools and even the School Kids bonus, along with health, a special mention to Medicare Locals.

    I have mixed feelings about what he is announcing.

  119. So Mr. Hockey believes that costings are boring. Maybe, but one can not make an informed decision, unless one has all the facts and data. Is impossible to do.

  120. Mr. Rudd replied that he has given concrete steps for the north.All that Abbott has promised is a white paper.

    Rudd is undermining Abbott’s aspirational proposals and the promised white paper.

    Yes, Native Title is being raised.

    Rudd back to praising his time. That is bad. It appears that Rudd had partnership with NT back in his time. So it appears, that Abbott will have trouble, saying the idea is his.

    Rudd said he is running ads based on policies. Yes, one could say, Abbott’s policies could be seen as negative. Liberal parties ads are running ten to one, Labor.

  121. So Bob. You are telling me the desal was a good idea instead of building dams. Get a grip buddy. 99% of Queensland’s rain washes out to sea and we drag it back take the salt out of it and then pipe it around the country. yes I also read the articles about how the Tugun desal water was pumped up to Brisbane because they had muddy water. And you believed the validiy of that article and action (which I recall had no author. The state of the contract with the desal is that Bligh and Beattie had to pay for the water whether the plant and water was being used or not. Dumb negotiations. Dumb infrastructure. Bob it begs the question as to what Brisbane did when it had muddy water in past floods when there was no desal?
    It was idiot championing of the Flannery hysteria and the Green incomprehensible nonsense not to build dams.that created the opportunity for the desal salesmen. That and the stupidity of Labor.
    Take a deep breath Bob and admit the whole episode was an expensive cockup that we are still paying for. Don’t get me started on the other :Labor desal debacle…..Victoria.

  122. Abbott says that dams are flood mitigation devices as well as water storage devices. Unfortunately, you can’t have magic dams.

    Dams for water storage need to be full. This means that they can’t be used as flood mitigation devices. And when there is no rain, water storage dams sit empty.

    Dams for flood mitigation need to be empty. This means that they can’t be used as water storage devices. Or environmental flows. Or food security. Or hydro.

    Most rivers in Australia that are suitable for dams already have one or more dams. Dams stop nutrients from flowing down river to fisheries.

    It takes only a minute of consideration about Tony Abbott’s “build more dams” thought bubble to realise it is utterly nonsensical.

  123. So Bob. You are telling me the desal was a good idea instead of building dams.

    With right wing, arm chair expert 20/20 hindsight…..no. I would have told Bligh to just wait for Yasi and the floods that would fill everything up again. Toowoomba could either a) die , or b) truck water there everyday for months until the rains came. Rather simple really when you can make decisions for an entire populous from the safety of blog.

    99% of Queensland’s rain washes out to sea and we drag it back take the salt out of it and then pipe it around the country.

    You raise a good point. I for the most part opposed the desal quite vocally. That was before I had more points of view at hand. My main two arguments were, a) why don’t we have more dams? and b) why arent we using stormwater capture and household rainwater tank more?

    Stormwater capture from city/suburban areas suffers from the problem of separating pollutants. Then it’s a matter of convincing people to drink it. Wont happen any time soon. It could probably work, similar to the sewerage recycling plant, but there is opposition. PLUS,it actually has to rain to make use of it.

    Dams suffer the problem Kaye stated below, mainly , It has to rain to be able to use that storage. They also take years of surveying and testing to identify sites, then are subject to be easily over turned by protests ( see Wofldene and Traveston) .

    My main objection to desal was the massive coal generated power they would use to supply us with water. In absence of a good proven backup plan, I back desal. But the best and most under used facility, is the sewerage recycling plant. It makes cleaner water than what comes out of the dams and we can endlessly reuse the dams we do have, water.

    yes I also read the articles about how the Tugun desal water was pumped up to Brisbane because they had muddy water. And you believed the validiy of that article and action (which I recall had no author.

    Conservatives are amazing. It’s only true if they hear it from conservative sources. Fine hear it from your right wing bible:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/water-everywhere-but-not-enough-to-drink/story-fn7iwx3v-1226564609800

    Better?

    Dumb negotiations. Dumb infrastructure.

    Then please, please tell Colin Barnett to stop building them. Please immediately head him off and educate him about the wisdom of your ways. Let me know how that goes. Tell him exactly when the rains will come again and if investments in dams will pay off. Hate to build them and nothing fills them but sand.

    It was idiot championing of the Flannery

    I gather you don’t believe in the proven science of human induced climate change? Theres my 2nd one.

    and the Green incomprehensible nonsense not to build dams.

    A yes, the anathema of the right. Need to have someone to blame. So Colin Barnett is a greenie?

  124. Harvesting storm water has a problem in that a fair amount of fresh water run off has to go down the rivers and into the sea otherwise whole eco systems will collapse, including large chunks of the fishing and tourist industries. The figures on the amounts needed can be found, but certainly some of it can be captured though it’s nowhere near the panacea some make it out to be.

    Dams are also problematical. Depending on their size they can cause large scale environmental damage a long way up and down stream as well as in their local area. They are wasteful in delivering water to their destinations, again the figures can be found if you search.

    The arguments from the right on this are like nearly all their others, dumbed down to simple black and white stuff with no room for the grey areas as that gets too complicated for them to think about.

  125. Wonder what the right wingers think of Abbott lying to them all this time, as he revealed yesterday in two announcements?

    One. His asylum seeker policy as he has been spruiking up until yesterday was a crock and he’s now changed it.

    Two. He hasn’t done the costings and stated he is still working on finding the savings needed.

    The right wingers who defended Abbott on his previous stances in these areas have been dudded.

  126. Kaye Lee August 15, 2013 @ 10:22 pm

    What a load of uninformed rubbish! You have no understanding of water management, your post is right out of The Greens manual.

  127. The papers today are again full of ‘election decided’ doing their best to make it true.

    Unfortunately, with Rudds latest ‘Northern Exposure’, they might just be right. WTF is he thinking? If anything reeks of ‘policy on the run’, this is it. Labor have enough policies already, proven, popular ones, that they don’t need to bring more in just so murdochs shills can blast it down (pretty easy in this case)

    Mind you, the disparity between the way ltdnews welcomed ginas proposal (through the lnp of course) and this latest junk, is just to comical to take seriously. Maybe that is his idea??

    But, while the libs are still in the box seat, a week, as they say in politics…

    And there are two left. Yesterday, tabot got pwnd by Katy Perry ffs 😯 not exactly a brilliant mind, but made him look like a bumbling buffoon. The shills can tell us their predictions of doom all they want, but, until the vote is cast, they are just that, predictions. They have been wrong before, look at the last US election. They were saying the same at the same time.

    Basically, I am sick to death of ‘Another Prophet of Disaster’. Try analyzing policy, or costings (we won’t get bored, truly) instead of simply repeatedly telling us it is all for naught. Do your frigging job

  128. If scaper is alluding to the fact that dams can be both water storage and flood mitigation then he’s right. All dams provide some degree of flood mitigation.

    It’s a balancing act.

    Some info.

    * In the US over the last 20 years one significant dam has failed every week.
    * In Australia people have died because of dam breaks.

    Look up Norm Himsley BE, MEngSc, GradDipBus, FIEAust, CPEng, an expert in dams whose given lectures on them and how mitigation works.

  129. Capturing and keeping streamflow in northern Australia is difficult. Most of the rainfall occurs near the coast where it is mostly too flat to build dams.

    Capturing water in valleys doesn’t overcome the problem of evaporation unless the dams are very deep – very few sites are suitable or near locations where there is likely to be significant demand for water. Consequently, large scale dams (like Lake Argyle) that can provide year-round water are not likely to be feasible for most of the north.

  130. I’ll give one example, the Traveston Dam which lobbied vehemently against.

    The proposed dam site was in fact on an alluvial flood plain, maximum depth was around eight metres and one side of the dam wall had no rock formation to key in to.

    There is already a dam at the head of the Mary. The Borumba Dam above Imbil. I’ve seen the plans for constructing a dam wall. The Borumba Super Dam. The objectives: serious flood mitigation, hydro electricity to supply the whole valley which in turn would guarantee constant natural flow and to transfer water to the Stanley Valley (Brisbane water catchment) via a vertical flow pipeline, if required.

    There are plenty of dam sites in the north but the issue will be water transfer inland using methods similar to the Interstate Water Transfer Project (supply MDB) that has been designed, costed and has a CBA. You will hear more about this project in the near future.

    I know of other dams that are being considered or in planning stages that are not released as of yet and pipeline projects to transfer water inland.

  131. No matter what many would love to see, that rain falls not only mostly on the plains, but falls all in one short period. The rivers it serves, that come down through the Channel country, is needed to keep the rest of our rivers healthy,. Yes, the Murry?Darling basins rely on it.

    I am not saying , there is no place for target and well placed dams, there is. It is just not true, that the whole north can be transformed into a great food bowl.

    Has Morrison and Abbott over reached, when it comes to dealing with asylum seekers. It will be interesting to see what the extraordinary Bali Group meeting have to say next week.

  132. Mr. Hockey says that costings are boring. Mr. Hockey, you know what I find boring, you and Abbott out there, each day with your lies, and telling us that we have to wait for the figures.

    It is not only costings I want. It is also policy details, especially when it comes to health and schools.

  133. “It is not only costings I want. It is also policy details, especially when it comes to health and schools.

    Labor did not submit most of its policies for costing until just before the election in 2007. Did you complain then??

  134. Labor did not submit most of its policies for costing until just before the election in 2007.

    Perhaps not, but they didn’t have access to a Parliamentary Budget Office. The game has changed, and the opposition now have access to resources previous oppositions didn’t have. Hence, the comparison is pointless

  135. Neil, now the Opposition have the benefit of having their costings done by the PBO. They have also had the same policies for a number of years assuring us that they were fully costed. They have had a long time to do their sums about how to pay for their promises. This reluctance to give any detail will continue to cause scepticism. Why not just tell us and stop the speculation?

  136. No, but they did obey the law of the time. That has changed.

    They did give details of policy.

    As for TPV, why does one need them, if those here already will only get bridging visa’s, which are tougher, and those still coming, will not be processed here or not allowed to be settled.

    The only sense I can make out of Abbott’s announcement, is that the 13, 000 they promise to take, are also not getting permanent visas. They are the only ones that will be allowed in under Labor. Of course 20,000 not the Coalition’s 13,000.

    Morrison’s announcement makes little sense, unless he wants to give the smugglers the message, that after they are in government, we will be allowing settlement here.

    .

  137. One needs to remember, that when it comes to politics and promises, the answer is to be found in the details.

  138. I suspect, if the figures add up we would be seeing them across the media and in full. The only thing I can guess, is that Abbott does not intend that there is enough time to examined their figures in detail. The large number that begin pre polling from next Tuesday, do not have access to these figures. They are being asked to give a informed vote, without being informed.

  139. Mr. Burke and Labor has determined that none who come by boat will be processed or settled here.

    Mr. Abbott has just said that when he drove that truck, after five hours, he was stuffed. I have read he did not have a suitable licence, and was only seen, sitting in a car, trailing the truck. They say it was a stunt, that he only drove it around the depot yard.

    Have no proof, but has anyone seen photos, or passed him on the road?

    At least Rudd has been walking among the public.

    Those boats people, already in this country, that are unprocessed will only get bridging visas under the no advantage rule. Yes, any permanent visa will only come, when those in Malaysia and Indonesia have been settled here. That could be up to a decade.

    TPV are much better than bridging visas.

  140. Listening to Shorten and a couple of others tonight, it is time for Albanese and co to pull Rudd quickly back into line. Maybe a PC to Gillard will not go amiss. After all, has more than others, had plenty of experience keeping him in line.

    I believe those whop supported Rudd, believed they could mange him.

    Cannot afford to give Abbott anymore free passes, that in the last couple of days, has let him out of jail.

    Rudd should not have bought into the Abbott minority government/Green argument. He should not have made that announcement yesterday that has given Abbott credibility. The worse thing, there is good in what Rudd announced, but he announced it, sounding like he was telling Abbott I can do it better than you. Gillard summed up what Abbott released in a appropriate way. No harm in looking at extending Ord River scheme. Stupid in announcing economic zone.

    I believe the cabinet has much work to do this weekend.. They need to round up the Rudd family, mum,.dad and kids, reading them the riot act.

  141. …. and what was Bruce Hawker thinking putting Beattie front and centre to remind Queenslanders of the Beattie / Bligh debacle. Talk about busting the stitches on a raw wound. I still think it is the start of the factions jockeying to get their man into the leaders role post Rudd. It is going to be a long long long 3 weeks for Rudd.

  142. As it will be for Tony who seems to be on a mission to alienate a different group every day. The suppository of no wisdom judges his candidates on their sex appeal and explains this away as daggy dad exuberance….an excuse that I am sure the G20 summit would understand. He insists that there is no racial discrimination in Australia and that Aborigines are a peachy keen adornment to our society as he exiles those non-vote winning asylum seekers to their undeniable fate.

    Who could not want this man to represent them/

  143. Kaye Lee, … just a suggestion … 😯 …. could you please not do anything other than what your already doin’….. just say’n….. 😀
    ….a vid… for you… 😉

  144. Tom R. I think this may be the first time I have agreed with you. What the fuck are the decision makers thinking. The Beattie decision is the final curtain for this election campaign. This decision on its own has lost the election.

  145. Hang on Tweed you said a long time ago Labor has lost the election and then about every other post since then, so what’s new?

    At least you provide a chuckle every now and again if nothing else.

  146. hahahahahaha, is this the biggest joke in the world right now??? He is a greedy creepy thing of a person. who the hell would want someone like him as Prime Minister. We are all screwed if he does some how get in. Who ever votes for this horrible person will regret it deeply.

Leave a Comment

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s