178 comments on “Down memory lane

  1. It was in the good old days when the Liberals thought that drops in interest rates were good.

    Context is important. People at that time could still remember home loan interest rates at 18% under Keating. People were going under left, right and center. A visit to the CES was a common occurrence.

  2. Context is important.

    But let’s not make a habit of it, hey 😉

    You know, when we talk about budget holes, don’t mention the GFC

  3. O.K. I will give you that. But who knows what state we would have been in if Costello was Treasurer during the GFC.

  4. But who knows what state we would have been in if Costello was Treasurer during the GFC.

    I know that if the current libs were in charge, and they implemented the approach they said we should have, we would be looking like England right now.

    The rest of the world cannot believe how good our economy is (and yes, it is not as good as it once was, but ‘context’ and all that) And, that is a direct reflection of the success of the policies implemented.

  5. So Michael. Let me get this straight. You think Swan Gillard and Rudd have done a good financial job managing the economy and finances of the country?
    You are comfortable with a slowing economy and the level of debt… recognising of course that it has increased by a million or so since my last typed sentence.
    And Michael you are comfortable that Swan Gillard and Rudd made the most of the greatest mining boom in history and delivered lasting wealth from the boom to Australia.
    And Michael you believe that Howard’s balanced growing economy,with nil debt allowed interest rates to fall was a bad thing?
    Mate Fess Up. These Labor clowns, too many to mention here, have been a joke and have squandered wealth opportunities for this country.
    The only goal Swan Gillard and Rudd have not achieved is to lose our AAA rating. Even these clowns could not lose it before the election. No matter how hard they try there is just not enough time.

  6. “You are comfortable with a slowing economy and the level of debt…

    Labor supporters don’t care. They only care about the ALP being in power no matter what damage the ALP does to Australia.

    We are in great danger of losing our AAA credit rating which we lost under Hawke/Keating. It took a Parliament house riot followed by SIX surplus budget for Costello to get our AAA back.

    If we lose our AAA again we may never get it back. It took 6 surplus budgets by Costello to get it back. It would take 10 surplus budgets to get it back if we lose it again and Labor supporters would never allow that to happen.

  7. The posts here just get more and more stupid. Me thinks too many inbred,
    Overqualified Cranberrians or equivalent. And few who have run their own
    business.Highs or lows in any numbers are bad – be it profits, interest rates even
    inflation. A very low Interest Rate typifies an Economy on its knees and in
    desperate need of fixing. This is very bad eg just like Retail Sales figures from
    Yesterday being the Lowest for 51years. Rudd- if things are so good why such
    A terrible number? Your pathetic plea for forgiveness and another term is so sad.
    With Budget Estimates out by 662/3% in ten weeks you are just unbelievable
    Incompetent and a Liar. If anyone condones this you are no better and if
    You budget the same way you will loose your house.

  8. The posts here just get more and more stupid.

    You should refrain from reading posts from Neil and Tweed then 😛

  9. So Michael. Let me get this straight. You think Swan Gillard and Rudd have done a good financial job managing the economy and finances of the country?

    Nice. Tweed’s now telling me what I think. 🙄

    So Tweed. Let me get this straight. I post a clip from the 2004 election campaign and it turns you into Sigmund Freud.

  10. Interesting article about little johnny howard as treasurer
    Should interest kneel

    Why John Howard never made the cover of Euromoney

    They show that John Howard is the only treasurer in Australia’s history who’s been able to engineer – simultaneously – double-digit inflation (December 1981 to June 1983), double-digit levels of unemployment (April to October 1983) and double-digit interest rates (November 1980 to October 1983).

    In the June quarter of 1983, inflation was 11.1%, the unemployment rate was 10.2% and the official cash rate averaged 12.08%.

    The election in March 1983 meant that Labor presided over this economic misery, even though they obviously had not created these outcomes.

    Howard won office in March 1996. The June quarter 1996 results put inflation on 3.1% (and on track to average 0.9% in the three years 1997 to 1999), the official cash rate was 7.5% (and on track to average 5.1% in the three years to December 1999) while the unemployment rate was 8.1% (and on track to reach 6.6% by the end of 1999).

    True, there was a budget deficit – but let’s put it in context. It was well on the way to being prepared at the time of the ‘96 poll. Take a dekko at the figures:

    Howard treasurer, Fraser prime minister:
    Budget deficit (underlying cash balance)

    1981-82 0.3% of GDP surplus
    1982-83 1.7% of GDP
    1983-84 3.3% of GDP

    Willis treasurer, Keating PM:
    Budget deficit (underlying cash balance)

    1994-95 2.7% of GDP
    1995-96 1.9% of GDP
    1996-97 1.0% of GDP


  11. Neil and Tweed, maybe if the Coalition get back into government they can show us what wizards they are with money again, by selling some more furniture?

    How is Abbott going to pay for his 1.5% company tax and all the other promises? Oh whats that? *crickets*……………………..

    How much of a wiz was Howard and Costello eh? Sell our gold reserves and lose us $5 B. Sell off Telstra. Not only the retail side, but the infrastructure! Cables and wires we all depended on to a private company, causing years of phone and isp wars that have damaged broadband growth and competitiveness in our country ever since. Creating T1-3 shares which all proceeded to fleece private citizens of their money that Howard needed. And they watched as their stocks plummeted and they lost most of their money. Snake oil salesman Howard and smirking Costello happy that he screwed people over.

    And the sale of the rest of CBA. A bank making shit loads of money, which was good revenue for Aus and they sell it.

    They Howard and Costello enjoyed a time in government where the world was in boom, Australia had a minerals boom and the best these economic wiz kids could do, was sell the furniture and stop infrastructure spending in Australia for 10 years, creating bottlenecks that still haunt us today. Plus, as many experts have pointed out, Howard squandered our resource boom in a time where the world was in boom and we were not in risk of being pulled into a recession like other countries now from the GFC.

    Oh yeah guys, your guys were just wiz kids.

  12. Bob, that is one thing which Abbott and Hockey have scrupulously avoided doing..say where their “savings” are going to be coming from. It’s all very well to spout populist rhetoric about sacking 20,000 public servants – but which public servants? Which services do they intend to pare back to the bone? Or there’s the rhetoric about “cutting waste”, but which waste and where might this waste be residing? Come up Tones and Joe..fess up…

  13. Yes Min. Abbott & Hockey need to be responsible and stick their neck on the chopping block like Labor has done and fess up to who is copping it and where the money is coming from. Labor has been transparent. The Liebrals have not. It appears they are going to try and do a Campbell Newman and just hope to get into government with no real solutions, no transparency on funding or cuts.

  14. Lieberal Govt, financial meltdown! Recession within 6 months. The Fibs did it in victoria, nearly did it in NSW & Qld… its the way they work. People are not part of the scenario. I cant understand anyone who would believe Abbott & Hockey.

  15. Min, you conveniently left out that the coalition cut to the public service is by natural attrition, funny that.

    You also left out the fact that the budget statement last Friday indicated that LABOR will be sacking public servants directly, not through natural attrition.

    I thought that you at least would display a modicum of honesty.

  16. Like the honesty Newman displayed when he said he wasn’t sacking anyone? That sort of natural attrition? At least Labor have the guts to front up and say it to peoples faces. We know Abbott has the spine of a rubber frog.

  17. The way you economic gurus chatter, one would believe that all Australians have a mortgage.

    Well, according to the 2011 Census, 32.1% of households are owned outright, 34.9% are owner occupants with a mortgage and 29.6% are rentals which would be comprised of owned outright and investment properties.

  18. We are at emergency rates because the economy is in stasis

    Actually, inflation is at 2.5% scapes, but don’t let facts get in the way of your rantings 😉

    So is it better to have higher or lower interest rates Scraper

    Scaper wants higher interest rates, I can only assume, as he didn’t contradict my above post

  19. Just let me say this! Why do we have low interest rates? Well, because I am PM. In fact, let me say I am the best person in Australia to keep interest rates down. I am far better at this job than the ALP bike Gillard. Anyway, gotta zip.

  20. Here is some more lines for you, Tommy. When spin is lying!
    ASSISTANT Treasurer David Bradbury: I find it extraordinary that yesterday Mr Hockey was barracking for higher interest rates. Let’s not forget when the Liberals were last in office Mr Howard once famously said “interest rates will always be at record lows under the Liberals” but now it seems that Mr Hockey and Mr Abbott stand for higher interest rates.

    Glenn Daniel: Whoa, David, hold on. What did he actually say yesterday that you pinned that claim on?

    David: He said that, um, interest rates should not be cut.

    Glenn: No, no, what he said was when interest rates go down, it’s a sign the economy is not going well. That’s what he said.

    He’s not saying “I want higher interest rates” he is saying when a reserve bank is forced to cut interest rates then the economy is not going well.

    David: Wait, are we having an argument here or am I on air? I’m just trying to work that out.

    Glenn: No, no, I’m just putting the proposition to you that what he said was that if the economy is not going well then interest rates get cut, that’s what he said didn’t he?

    David: Well, uh, they also have a pamphlet that . . . says that under the Liberals, interest rates will be cut.

    There is a major contradiction here in the argument that they are putting.

    If interest rates are not cut today, then Mr Hockey and Mr Abbott will be the only two people in the country who will welcome that.

    Glenn: No, uh, David. That’s obviously not right. What he said was —

    David: Wait wait wait, are you um . . . are you?

    Glenn: I’m trying to get you to comment on what he said, not what you think he said . . . . David: Sorry Glenn, are you, are you a Liberal party member here or what is going on?

    Glenn: No, I’m just trying to, you know, (get) the context of what he was saying is and you’re trying to twist it into that the Coalition wants higher interest rates. Which you know is a nonsense.

    David: Sorry?

    Glenn: You’re trying to twist his comments.

    David: What’s your surname Glenn?

    Glenn: Daniel, why?

    David: This is extraordinary, I’ve never experienced anything like this. Do you, do you do this all the time?

    Glenn: David, I’m just asking you a question.

    David: Well, why don’t we go back to you asking the questions rather than you making the case for the Liberals.
    At least Bradbury has a reason to lie because he is a Labor Party MP fighting for his job…what is your excuse???

  21. Glenn: No, no, what he said was when interest rates go down, it’s a sign the economy is not going well. That’s what he said.

    So hen howard said “Interest rates will always be lower under a liberal government” was that him saying he would be making sure the economy would not be going well?

    You have to admit, it’s easy to see why the average punter is confused. The libs message changes with the wind.

    I also note, that when the subject of ‘context’ is raised, what is mysteriously missing is any mention of the GFC or China, the two real big influences of ANY context in this ‘debate’

    Cherry picked ‘context’ really, isn’t it 😉

  22. By the way scapes, what ‘lie’ is it I have supposed to made?

    You didn’t do too well yesterday when challenged on that one, did you 😆

  23. I agree that Bradbury stuffed up.

    Actually, the live audio, while not great, is far better than the script, particularly if you listen to the entire piece. That particular segment was pretty poor though. Should have stuck to the message, not blame it back on a barracker.

  24. Businesses also borrow and are affected by interest rates, but hey why let an entire sector of the economy interrupt another immature rant against Labor when just those select bits and pieces or context that suits a narrow minded objective will do.

  25. “Interest rates will always be lower under a liberal government”

    What a joke howards pledge turned out to be 😆

    btw scapes, what lie are you accusing me off 😯

  26. Yes Tom, and as this is a trip down memory lane how can we forget the weasel words he attempted to use as interest rates kept going up under him. Problem for Howard was that he had used weasel words so often to get out of things he had stated previously the people were beyond allowing him to get away with them and rightly booted him out of his seat.

  27. “Plus, as many experts have pointed out, Howard squandered our resource boom in a time where the world was in boom

    Been over this a million times Bob, but i have to repeat myself. Mining boom started in 2004 and Howard/Costello saved $50B in their last three budgets. All the boom was saved and more. Compare that to Swan who has wasted the lot. And the mining boom was much bigger under Swan.

    And Howard did spend on infrastructure. Seems you have the ALP talking points down pat.

    “And the sale of the rest of CBA. A bank making shit loads of money, which was good revenue for Aus and they sell it.

    I thought it was Hawke/Keating who sold the Commonwealth Bank

  28. Bringing down that debt wasn’t all about constrained spending and higher taxes, in fact neither of those things were characteristics of the Howard-Costello years. Government asset sales between 1996 and 2007 worth $72 billion wiped the net debt out entirely with $16 billion to spare. With Joe Hockey as Coalition treasurer after September 14, Medibank Private could be the next to go for what was estimated during the 2010 election campaign would reap $4.5 billion.


    Fiscal management my arse

    Just another reason NOT to vote in the libs, selling off Medibank Private.

  29. Funny how the lefties here reckon the ABC is right wing but don’t hesitate to link to it. Oh the hypocrisy!!!

    Neil, next they will be blaming Howard for selling Qantas…either just plain ignorant or more lies. Both.

  30. Government asset sales between 1996 and 2007 worth $72 billion wiped the net debt out entirely with $16 billion to spare.

    Actually that statement is true and it is also false.

    You could also say debt was paid off by the 10 surplus budgets that Costello produced. It is not a well known fact but revenue from Costello’s asset sales was not put into the budget as revenue. They were used to pay off debt however.

    And that statement leaves out the $70B in the Future Fund. So we have $96B plus $70B= $166B saved. Alberici must be a Labor voter.

    You know I would not have to repeat myself so many times if you people got your facts right.

  31. Actually that statement is true and it is also false.


    So have you pin pointed my alleged lie yet scapes, or you just gonna keep claiming I made one without clarifying?

    And why is linking to an article on a site hypocritical? Even the abc post facts on occasions. Even nil doesn’t disagree with it, and he generally disagrees with anything a watermelon posts just on principal.

  32. From Pineapple Petes link, this is what scaper calls ‘stasis’

    In Australia, the economy has been growing a bit below trend over the past year.

    Note the use of the word ‘growing’ 😉

  33. Min, you missed the miracle that Abbott is going to perform. He is not going to sack any PS. The 20,000 will leave by natural attrition.

    Now I do not believe that Howard was a great PM, but there is little dispute that he was probably the worse treasurer this country ever had. When one gets stagnation, they cannot do much worse.
    Abbott now on ABC 24. Quoting Gillard. This is going to be good.

    Gillard also never went ahead with lowering company tax, because the companies would not accept the cuts tat was needed to bring it in. He has just put three different topics into one sentence.

    Again on ruling out doing a deal with the Greens. Sorry Mr. Abbott, if the will of the voters bring another close poll, so be it. ,

    Mr. Abbott, are you going to walk away, if you need to do deals in the upper house. What is the difference.

  34. I know I should not say this, but Hockey has another shocking suit. Has he taken over the stock from his cousin’s bankrupt store, Wife needs to take time off work and take him shopping.

  35. At least the media is once again doing their job. Maybe Abbott needs to travel in that bus, getting them on side. Sounds angry, and the PC has just began. Suspect he will walk early in this one.

  36. Tom, does it remind one of the parables of the loaves and fishes. Back on debt.

    Be interested in what Ken Henry did say.

    This is comedy of the highest order.

  37. Hockey got that miserable look on his face, once again.

    Tom, maybe it is the Magic Pudding, I am thinking of.

    Media sounds angry as well.

  38. Actually Neil, you are right, my mistake about CBA. Could you imagine one of you guys admitting a mistake, ahah. Impossible.

    Anyways, I’m not going to be a partisan at all costs like you guys and say that it was a good thing Keating did, because it was stupid. Will you agree that selling our gold and telstra was stupid?

    Do you also agree that Howard & Costellos reign never occured during a GFC like Labor have had to endure? Or did the GFC not exist like so many Lieberals like to pretend?

  39. I have a very bright four year old grand daughter. You know one of those kids that can talk under water, and has an answer for everything. Yes, that is who Hockey reminds me of.

    Appears Abbott is not turning up for the CH Seven, Facebook debate. Wants Rudd to turn up to the NPC Sunday night. He is copying Rudd.

    He wants proper debates.

    I think this one has been worse than the last two days.

  40. Abbott: I respectfully request Mr Rudd turns up at the NPC Sunday night.

    So all the debates are to be on Abbott’s terms.

  41. Now we have that lie, that he cannot change the GST without the cooperation of the states. Sorry, he can. All he has to do, is change the legislation.

  42. So a company is not going buy the cars it needs if Labor wins. Are there fairies at the bottom of your garden, Mr.Abbott.

    Another department is to be created.

  43. Yes,the economy has slowed down. Has anyone denied that. Yes, the global economies are slowing down. I believe even China has slowed down.

    Yes the RBA is doing it’s duty, in adjusting interest rates to deal with the problem. Yes, to prevent us going into recession one hopes.

    Yes, the same would be happening if Abbott was in. Yes, governments have to make adjustments over time, to deal with whatever is happening at the time.

    I have not heard many experts blaming Labor.

  44. I believe that Mr. Howard had a two sentence document with his deal with Naur

    I imagine we are getting more of Mr. Brandis legal opinions, or maybe the younger Bishop.

  45. I believe there has been a slow down in boats. Maybe that is what Morrison is out once again supporting the smugglers, with his “it will not work”.

    Of course the camps whether in the desert here on Islands were peaceful and happy places to be. No trouble in Howard’s day.

    Cutting PC short, while questions are still coming.

  46. Why should I care about the failed high court challenge, Tommy?

    I have nothing to do with Twiggy apart from my commitment to GenerationOne and besides…if the coalition wins the election the tax that raises SFA, the predicted proceeds have been spent, will be axed.

    Question- do you actually have any input to the community or Aboriginal Australia? I reckon you don’t do anything but barrack from way, way back from the sidelines.

  47. “Do you also agree that Howard & Costellos reign never occured during a GFC like Labor have had to endure?

    I will admit there was a GFC. Will you guys admit that when Howard was Treasurer there was a nasty worldwide recession??

  48. Great that Andrew Forrester lost his case. That also means some of the states are also losers.

    He has to pay the cost.

  49. Neil of Sydney, you really need to look t yourself and stop making excuses for the LNP. I know they can’t do anything wrong in your eyes, but it only makes people reluctant to listen to anything you say when you’re so one-eyed.

  50. Scraper, there has been 22 Coalition members over the years that have either gone to or come from the ABC, to Labors 11. Plus the managing director is a Liberal.

    Plus they have their own show “Counterpoint” that Labor doesn’t have. Plus the IPA have more representation than any other lobby group by far and Peter Reith is stuck to it now like a ramora. Its more Liberals ABC now.

  51. I am more anti-labor than pro-liberal. If you people told the truth i would not seem such a rusted on Liberal supporter.

  52. Question- do you actually have any input to the community or Aboriginal Australia?

    Question – Have you been able to clarify my alleged lie yet, or are they just words?

    In answer to your question, Yes, I do.

  53. “What worldwide recession under Howard are you referring to Neil?”

    This one

    In the USA “From a high of 10.8% in December 1982, unemployment gradually improved until it fell to 7.2% on Election Day in 1984.[5] Nearly two million people left the unemployment rolls.[64] Inflation fell from 10.3% in 1981 to 3.2% in 1983

    Interest rates in Australia had to be higher than in the USA otherwise money would go to a higher interest rate. Our current interest rates are way above the rest of the world also.

    At the moment i have no comment on Telstra sale.

  54. Yes, our mining magnates are not doing well in court this week. Gina yesterday, and Andrew today.

    Both have to pay costs.

  55. Some of that alleged debt that Keating was suppose to leave Howard, was left over from his days as treasurer.

    Contrary to popular belief,, the economy was well on the way to recovery when Howard took over.

    What has been noticed after every recession or depression, getting the unemployed back to work was harder and took much longer. Cost a damn lot more as well.

    Keating regretted that he did not go in earlier and harder, as Rudd did.

    Rudd, it appeared heeded the lessons learnt. One has to spend in recession or GFC. One can choose to do it before people lose jobs, and bosses become bankrupt, or one can wait, spend more getting the unemployed back to work. I think the scheme was called the RED scheme. Much infrastructure was built in such places as western suburbs of Sydney. people there today, still enjoy many of the parks and recreation areas built. That was terrific, as none existed before that time. Yes, and it was very expensive,

    I like the way Rudd dealt with the crisis. Much important infrastructure and up dating of eduction stock has bought the school system into the 21st century. Over a million and quarter homes now have energy saving insulation in their roofs. Schools now have halls, language and science lab and the digital equipment to meet the needs of this century. Better Schools is the icing on the cake. Every suburb appears to have kids playgrounds, that one is proud to take their kids too. Then there are the roads bought up to date, and numerous low income housing. Yes, Rudd was really bad. Thankfully, when Rudd run up against his brick wall, Gillard was there to carry on.

    Abbott identified back in his budget reply speech, 17 million savings. Does one remember that.

  56. Islanders in the Torres Straits have also had a victory. Native Title Rights still exist, and the Islanders still maintain fishing rights. Another Howard muck up. he worked hard to rescind much of the Native Title Rights of Keating. Glad to seem he failed in this case. Remember the scare camping, that the Aboriginals were going to take over our backyards.

  57. Come to think of it, the High Court has overturned much of Howard’s legalization, especially that related to asylum seekers.

    Did not do too well with some of the Terrorism Legislation, when it come to Dr. Haneef.

  58. Figures today, say the worse might be over for the construction industry. Still slow, but improving.

  59. Why would shares fall in the mining industry, because Forrester loss? The tax collects next to nothing. In fact it is the tax they wanted instead of royalties. It is only paid on super profits, for a limited type mines.

  60. <<<made a motza investing in the big miners during the naughties. 😉 FU perhaps you should buy some mining shares, because post election, they will return to strength under the LNP. Coal is looking really good.

  61. Ged kearney now at NPC.

    “.This is despite the once-close personal friendship between him and Australian editor-in-chief Chris Mitchell.

    (Rudd has hired as his adviser on media strategy the well-respected former chief political correspondent of The Australian, Matthew Franklin, who must find the drop-in on the News stable somewhat character-forming as he does his press gallery rounds.)

    Media watchers predicted that Rudd was in for extra tabloid fire when Col Allan, Murdoch hard hitter who is editor-in-chief of the New York Post, returned recently to help out editorially. (Allan was the one who took Rudd, then opposition leader, for a dru.


    I wonder who used who?

  62. I am sure they will, as the fall today does not make sense. Bosses have been playing these games since the times of Lang, when every worker, on the eve of the election, had slip in the pay packet, telling them, if Lang won, they had not job. Yes, it worked,.

  63. Coal is looking really good.

    Tourism in the Great Barrier Reef is looking terrible as Newman allows thousands more coal carriers through and increased silting.

  64. Oh turn it up Neil. Lets compare apples with apples eh? The recent GFC is the largest thing since the Great Depression and Labor saw us through it. Where other countries were bailed out.

    Abbott already said he would have stopped the stimulus . If he did, we would be in recession .

    Nothing to say about selling Telstra or gold eh? Not even , that was a stupid idea? Wow , rusted on a died in the wool partisan.

  65. The recent GFC is the largest thing since the Great Depression and Labor saw us through it??

    Give me a break. They did it on the back of Costello’s surpluses and spending your future fund you goose! What have we got left if the world goes to shit again, which is highly likely.

  66. Don’t worry Summo, I have a cunning plan. Invite all the lefties to Tasmania for a bong session, then sell the lot, stock and rabble to China.

    After all, the Chinese are going to require people of basic intelligence to construct the Franklin Dam. Bob Brown can be their foreman.

  67. Don’t these socialist fools understand exactly how much $400 billion is? There’s only 12 or 13 million working in this country and to burden Australia with a $400 billion debt would ruin our way of life for generations, not to mention the tax required on every man, woman, and child. These socialist basket weavers have no idea. They’d have never run a business or had to struggle. Their precious unions have wiped their arses all their lives. One word. Pathetic! I wouldn’t be guessing scaper, that most of these bloggers would be dole peddling basket weavers who take the high moral ground whilst sitting on their blurters doing fuck all.

  68. Chinese are going to require people of basic intelligence

    Pretty obvious that 2SP and his even sillier offsider Mr Summerville, don’t come anywhere near high enough on the IQ scale to make the grade 😆 :mrgreen:

  69. Federal government debt sits at about $275 billion – the other $200 billion is owed by mainly Lieberal State governments 😆

    The debt will become meaningless as the economy grows. The US still hasn’t paid back its debt from WWII and there’s no need to. As the CEO of NAB said the other day, our problem is actually not enough debt, while we’ve got such low interest rates 😉

    Returning to surplus too soon will simply have the effect of increasing unemployment – you know what that means for government revenue and outlays?

    How about the NSW government hey – budget was in surplus when they cam in – how’s it going now? In Qld, the debt to revenue ratio has gone up (and is still going higher) since Can’t Do and his bunch of criminals took over and introduced “Hammock” Costello’s austerity measures – great success that one 🙄

  70. 2SP obviously doesn’t know what a sock puppet is – he is incapable of saying who I’m supposed to be a sock puppet of. 🙄 Really is 2SP – thicker than two short planks 😆

  71. And that bacchus is where our ideology parts. I do not agree with high debt. I don’t have it, my company doesn’t have it and if I cannot afford it, I go without. You people on the other hand will borrow to the hilt and rely upon handouts to balance the books. Fortunately, you are a socialist minority in Australia and the majority hope it stays that way. We listen to your tripe, and then get on with improving our lives and those of our employees and family. In fact bacchus, I just gave my staff a $7K wage increase. Not bad in the tough times and I’d go so far as to say that they are the highest paid in our industry. Feel free to research me bacchus. You don’t fool or intimidate me.

  72. Doesn’t Summo have any idea of economics and how government debt and deficits work? Plenty of his ignorance on display here with only Hockey, a supposed alternate Treasurer, showing a worse understanding on the subject.

    I guess we can hear you now asking how the Liberal State governments are going to swiftly pay back their debts then Summo?

  73. Another lie. Labor state governments racked up the spiralling debt and left it to the next governments and the people to get under control.

    I see that Bligh wasted $1.2B on the payroll disaster. How many homeless could of being housed???

  74. Oh ME. Typically socialist.
    $200 billion debt racked up under ALP state govts (that’s being conservative) and a projected $400B if Alp is returned. Add those 2 amounts together if you can? I know who has the better understanding of economics ME and between us, it isn’t you.

  75. Well good for you! It sounds like you’re running your company the way it should be done, HOWEVER, the government is not a business. It is impossible for the Australian government to become insolvent for a start. For a government sovereign in its own currency, going into debt is a pretty much a voluntary exercise – well the markets wouldn’t let them have zero gross debt – ask Mr Costello what happened when he tried it 😉

    If you really have an interest in understanding how government economics is different to the way you run your company, have a read of some of the interesting material from Prof. Bill Mitchell – linked to on this site many times by Mangrove Jack…

    Just by the by – I have no personal debt, and receive no handouts from the government…

  76. Was O’Farrell left a surplus or deficit, and indeed on racking up his first deficit O’Farrell used the same reasoning the Federal Government did at the time, reasoning I fully agree with, but O’Farrell is the only Liberal Premier doing it right on debt.

    Barnett is in the richest state of them all and has significantly lifted mining royalties along with being in more than long enough to get rid of any deficit if required, yet he continues to exponentially increase debt, as does Newman, who despite supposedly making massive cuts to essential services, declaring open warfare on the environment to allow unfettered development, giving himself and ministers huge pay rises, giving millions to the racing industry, subsidising casinos and doing up his offices, the debt is going up faster than ever.

    Don’t cry faux concern that is decidedly lopsided.

  77. <<has never had a handout and at 57, never intend to. Nobody here can tell us, how will the debt be repaid? It's all good and well to say USA hasn't repaid the war debt, but they have $365 million people. We've got half our population not working. The interest (just like any individual mortgage holder) is crippling and must be reduced. Common sense should tell you bacchus that we cannot sustain such debt and such high interest payments eternally? Is it any wonder there's so much argy bargy between the major parties when they know full well that they cannot live up to the pork barrelling that has gone on for 3 years. We simply don't have the money for the infra-structure being promised. Surely even you can see that!

  78. NSW – The Budget result for 2010-11 is estimated to be a surplus of $1.3 billion
    NSW – Deficit of $329 million in 2013/14

    Qld gross debt/revenue 2011-12 =>117.6%
    Qld gross debt/revenue 2012-13 =>141.1%
    Qld gross debt/revenue 2013-14 =>150.4%

    Sorry 2SP – those are the Facts 😉

    (Sourced from NSW & Qld government budget papers)

  79. “as does Newman, who despite supposedly making massive cuts to essential services…………..the debt is going up faster than ever.”

    Typical, blame Newman for something created by Labor. This is what Labor did to Queensland

    I would like to see you do any better. Also shows the greatness of Costello. Getting our AAA back which we lost under Hawke and will lose again if Labor wins the election.

    Trouble is Costello made it look easy and socialists are too stupid to see that.

  80. Let’s not forget Bacchus that the a Liberal NSW Treasurer lost $1billion and then in a miracle when rubbery figures started to be questioned found it.

    And remind us how many billions Costello lost on gold.

  81. Wow Summo reveals himself.

    Waiting for scaper’s rant against abuse… no that’s stupid, he only ever rants against one side though he keeps claiming to be non-partisan.

  82. Qld gross debt/revenue 2013-14 =>150.4%

    Bacchus you are mean. Labor hands Newman a pile of crap and he is supposed to clean it up in two years. Why can’t Labor just once hand the Coalition a budget that is not trashed.

    And it is debt that causes up to lose our credit rating that worries Conservatives. And lose it we will if Rudd wins. In fact we may lose our AAA if Abbott wins. The increase is exponential under Swan.

  83. What percentage of that deficit. I think I heard 1.1 percent of budget. I am sure this country can serve such debt.

    Just listened on ABC 24. It seems we are doing better than ever before, in most areas.

  84. As Ged Kearney said today at the NPC, six years later, we are still experiencing the GFC., She said that Sharon Burrows is here from her job overseas, and has warned that there is long way to go, before things come back to normal.

    Can one trust Abbott and Hockey to keep things safe, in this unstable global economy.

    They do not even acknowledge that anything is amiss.

    Burke made Morrison look a fool, when he reported on where the PNG is at. Once again, all in Morrison head,.

  85. FU. So which is it, Ged Kearney and Sharon Burrows saying we still in the shit or you saying there is nothing to worry about?

  86. No, I said the debt we have, is nothing top worry about. Having Hockey and Abbott in charge would worry me indeed.

  87. Bacchus, even in business, if one does not invest in essential infrastructure, he will soon go broke.

    How long is Hockey going to last. He is the one, responsible for raising GST. He is disagreeing with Abbott daily.

  88. We simply don’t have the money for the infra-structure being promised. Surely even you can see that!

    Know more about economics than the CEO of NAB now do we?

    Australia has a debt problem – we don’t have enough, says National Australia Bank’s chief executive.

    Australia had a “unique window” as a triple-A rated country to issue more debt to fund desperately needed infrastructure, Cameron Clyne said today.

    There was a “very legitimate debate to be had” about how to use Australian government debt to fund investment in infrastructure, he said.

    “If we continue to have the debate that suggests that all debt is bad, and not a debate on the productive use of debt, we will simply not be able to fund the degree of infrastructure this economy needs to thrive into the future,” Mr Clyne said.

    “Most investors around the world are up to their eyeballs in northern hemisphere government paper. [But] we have a unique window, as a triple-A nation with strong demand for triple-A debt, to issue that debt and divert it to productive infrastructure.”


    Perhaps instead of being so cocksure that you know everything about finance just because you run a business, you could more productively spend your time finding out where and why you’re wrong? 😉

    See if you can manage to get your head around this from Prof. Mitchell:

  89. Just started and Hockey is losing it. Once again, Hockey “I am not copping a lecture from Labor.. Bowen was told him he was not lecturing. I suspect Hockey might be on the way out. If not, why not?

  90. Lyndall Curtis just asked Cormann a beauty. You are dumping the school kids payment because it has no proof of being spent, what is the difference to asking fro proof for cars under the FBT. It appears we cannot afford the first, but we can the FBT on cars. Something wrong there, We can assist people in buying brand new cars but not our kids education.

    By the way, it would be impossible for one to send there kids to school, without spending the money.

  91. Australia has a debt problem – we don’t have enough, says National Australia Bank’s chief executive.

    So the head of NAB is a Labor voter- so what??

  92. I am now in New York on business for the next few days then off south to the capital Washington. In this blog I want to outline the horrible scenario that everyone has been predicting would happen – the increasing fiscal deficits will increase taxation. I know that has been on our minds. I have reached the ineluctable conclusion that future taxation will increase as a direct consequence of the current deficits. The tax revenue gained by the government will also reduce future deficits. Wouldn’t it be preferable that we didn’t push future taxation up and instead controlled net government spending? If you believed that you would have rocks in your head. In this blog I will be also be discussing debt, inflation, and other nasties.

    Okay, lets level here. The title of the blog was to get attention. Has billy blog finally gone over the edge you were meant to think? Not at all. Taxation will rise due to the deficits but we should be happy about that. Far from being a catastrophe or a future burden on our children the rising tax take will signify that the economy is growing again.

    This is how it w………………


  93. Another formal debate when one cannot hear the questions. Bishop sounds unusually stilted today. That is not the norm for her. Could it be nerves?

  94. The leadership spill in the Liberal Party in December, 2009, seemed to be ‘in the context’ of the climate change debate when the then leader, Malcolm Turnbull, was all for an Emissions Trading Scheme. Tony Abbott emerged then as champion of the sceptics and won with a one vote majority. I wonder, though, if he would have got even those 41 votes if Malcolm had not worn his republican heart so proudly on his sleeve? The liberals are such a conservative bunch and love their royals.

    Since the recent birth of Prince George I’ve been wondering how that might affect Malcolm’s chances in the next spill, particularly now that climate change seems less important than the NBN. And wasn’t Abbott cunning giving his arch- rival the job of fighting that oh so popular ALP broadband policy? Whatever importance the general public place on all these issues, Liberal MPs who elect the party leader tend to be staunch royalists, climate sceptics and deficit obsessives. Will interest rates have much weight? I think, if not Tony, then some other challenger who is prepared to argue against a republic and push for a surplus will defeat Turnbull, just as in December. 2009. Whatever the media wrote about’policy’ or was said in public speeches, this was how many LNP members were feeling after Turnbull’s defeat.

    From Mal to Tony the pref’rence turned,
    The Libs have made it plain,
    Afar and wide their hope returned,
    Ambitions burned again.

    Look left, look right, the future’s bright,
    As if no poll there’d been.
    Tony would win the day and plight
    His troth to save the Queen.

    Now, if the flames of climate change
    Burned Australian bush and sod,
    Oz should remind itself the Pope
    Would intercede with God.

    Good girls who know their place a’right,
    Whose mothers bred them brave
    Enough to serve yet not to fight
    High office they’ll not crave.

    Barnaby wins the fight in country towns
    Afar and wide he tours,
    And fires the beacons up and down
    Denouncing Labor’s evil laws.

    “God save the Queen” the Liberals sing,
    From East to West ’tis heard;
    Maybe William should be king.
    One day his heir an Aussie reared.

    Policies can change, fear not!
    We’ll be again the men we’ve been.
    The party now in Tony’s got
    A leader like you’ve never seen!

  95. Well that was one for the books. Leigh Sales had very hard time tonight on 7.30. I must say, she did not seem to appreciate someone else taking control. Gotcha questions went nowhere

    One of the reasons I was glad to see Gillard take over, was because Rudd did not seem to be coping with the continual carping from the press at the time. I am pleasantly surprised, that Rudd has developed considerable skill in dealing with the media. In fact, quote deadly. I would say that Rudd can now lob the insults back with finesse.

  96. Little long but telling.

    “……….With the federal election looming, the ABC’s flagship evening current affairs program, 7.30 is featuring economic matters each night. But, as I have noted in the past, the presenter, Leigh Sales, knows very little about macroeconomics and her questioning (or lack of relevant questioning) means that myths are perpetuated and the viewers are misled as a consequence.

    The same goes for her Canberra off-sider, Chris Uhlmann. Both seem to give privileged access to the Director of Access Economics, a Canberra-based consulting company, which sings from the neo-liberal hymn sheet. The company is continually telling us about how bad deficits are, that the government is broke, that the deficit is broke and all the rest of it.

    Access Economics was one of the private groups that had forecast that a budget surplus would materialise last financial year. I considered their forecasting prowess (or almost total lack of it) in this blog – A Budget that reduces growth and increases joblessness – for no sound reason

    On September 28, 2011, News Limited carried the story- Access Economics’ Budget forecast is pessimistic, says Wayne Swan which said:

    Access expects a surplus of $3.8 billion in 2012/13 compared with Treasury’s forecast of $3.5 billion, but a $1.8 billion deficit in 2013/14 against an official prediction for a $4.5 billion surplus.

    They were significantly wrong for both years.

    By late 2011 (November) as the data was showing their predictions were unsustainable, Access revised their estimates to a small deficit for 2012-13 (Source) and progressively altered their forecasts as each previous forecast looked to be an deeply flawed assessment.

    Late last year (November 2012), the ABC news sprayed the following headline across the daily news – Access Economics forecasts budget deficit.

    The only news at that time was that Access had changed their minds when it was obvious they had completely missed what was happening in the economy (and why), which of-course the ABC didn’t choose to report.

    Anyway, the first segment on 730 last night – Interest rates fall as electioneering picks up – once again featured the Director of Access Economics and it is clear humility is not his thing.

    The segment was reported by Chris Uhlmann and after some introductory banter about what the political leaders were doing on the campaign trail, he began an interview with the Access director (Chris Richardson).

    The Access Director was asked what the low interest rates said about the economy and replied:

    They’re headed down because the economy is soft. And it’s been soft for a while because of a strong Australian dollar, it’ll stay soft because the big mega mining projects are now winding down, but neither of those things you know, earlier strength of the dollar, the next phase, the wind down of the mining boom construction, neither of that is due to Canberra. All of it is due to China.

    The Government’s own – Economic Statement – (released August 2013) – showed that public final demand contracted by about 1.5 per cent in 2012-13 at a time private sector final demand was also not as strong as previously forecast.

    That has everything to do with Canberra (and the state/territory governments).

    Further, the factors identified have been obvious for the last few years and the correct policy response would have been to abandon any plans to achieve a budget surplus and instead expand the deficit in a discretionary fashion. The deficit has risen but largely due to the automatic stabilisers (massive loss of tax revenue as the economy slows).

    After some further questions to politicians about the credibility of deficit forecasts and other meaningless issues like that, the reporter turned back to his “economics expert”, the Access Economics Director.

    The transcript went like this:

    CHRIS UHLMANN: No matter who wins the election, the task of making the books balance will be difficult for any future government.

    CHRIS RICHARDSON: Whoever wins has to repair the Budget. The official forecasts are for a small surplus. But they’re very dependent on two things. Number one, if China slows further that surplus disappears very fast. Number two, those official forecasts stop just four years from now, and it’s beyond that that things like these new policies, DisabilityCare, schools, the rest of it, get really expensive. We run the risk that even if we do manage to make it to surplus it’s five minutes of surplus sunshine. Whoever wins faces a big expensive Budget repair task.

    The terminology tells you all. “Repair”, “Surplus Sunshine”, “Expensive repair task”, etc

    The budget is not a limb that can be broken. It is not a machine that wears out. A deficit equivalent to 2 per cent of GDP might be a very irresponsible outcome or the perfect public sector contribution to final demand. It all depends.

    A surplus of 5 per cent of GDP might be required for sound fiscal management but it also could be the sign of a very destructive policy position. It all depends.

    What sense does the meaning of the work “repair” have in this regard? None at all. What sense does the expression “Sunshine”, which we usually take to mean as indicating warmth, have in relation to a surplus? None at all. A surplus could be a reasonable position or a totally inappropriate position for the government to be in.

    Would a surplus be good, in the context of an external deficit (which Australia will run at around 3-4 per cent for the indefinite future) and a private sector balance (given the rise in household saving to 10 per cent of disposable income and the decline in investment growth)?

    The answer is that such a position would be unsustainable and the economy would soon see recession and high unemployment and …. a budget deficit brought about by the negative income shifts. There would be no sunshine in that outcome.

    The point is that these loaded terms have no meaning when we talk about budget positions and outcomes.

    There is no “big expensive Budget repair task” looming for any future government. What is looming is an ageing population – which presents a productivity challenge. To maintain real standards of living we are going to have get more out of less and creating stagnant growth and rising unemployment by cutting discretionary net public spending now is the least obvious way of achieving that.

    We need massive public investments in education, public infrastructure (such as the National Broadband Network) and the like to sustain higher productivity growth rates in the future. That means we need larger deficits now and into the future. The massive amount of excess productive capacity at present means we can easily “afford” to run larger deficits.

    Afford here means that we have idle real resources that can be brought back into productive use by appropriately targetted government spending.

    The idiocy in the interview continued:

    CHRIS UHLMANN: So whoever’s in government after September seven, what are the kinds of decisions that they will have to make?

    CHRIS RICHARDSON: You’ve got to cut spending and raise taxes. Both are unpopular. Already we are in a phase where the promises that have been made by past governments, the current one, previous one, are costing more than the Budget will support so it’s showing up as a deficit. This is a campaign where I want to see as few promises as possible because we already can’t pay for the promises that both sides

    What Richardson should have said is this – “You’ve got to cut spending and raise taxes” if you want to engineer a massive recession and push unemployment up towards 8-10 per cent and lock out the teenagers from the labour market indefinitely.

    Further, there is no economic meaning to the statement “costing more than the Budget will support”. Perhaps that is a political statement, in which case what qualifications does Richardson have as a political scientist? The answer to that question is clear.

    It certainly has no economic sense. The Budget can be whatever it is. The government can buy whatever is for sale in Australian dollars. It can run very small or very large deficits in absolute terms or relative terms without blinking. The only sensible relationship that we might consider in terms of the budget is whether it is calibrated to the real resources that the non-government sector is not using.

    If there are real resources idle then the budget deficfeatured the Opposition (conservative) Shadow Treasurer….”
    it can always increase – and should.

    The second segment on the 730 Program – Joe Hockey says rates cut reveals struggling economy –


    Leigh was too interested in getting her view over, not listening to Rudd’s.

    The truth is, her questions are a little stupid and simply not relevant.
    Catching up

  97. Summo, what are you some Glen Beck watching clapping seal or something? Sheeesh, whats with the socialist bullshit? After all you team seem to be big fans of it. FHOG, Baby bonus, PPL, direct action and they arent about to stop their mates agrarian socialism or their mining mates subsidy socialism either in a hurry are they?

  98. Wonder how much Abbott has on his ass this time round? He’s personally hocked his ass bigtime..oh but debts a bad thing right? 🙄 especially when his mortgage has gone down per week by the total amount someone on the dole gets to live on a week….

  99. “Interesting article proving that the Liars are full of bullshit wrt debt & deficit.”

    You know Jane- what a nasty person you are. It seems that Labor supporters are full of nothing but hate. No wonder Labor Party policies always end in failure.

  100. Reading through the Whisperers comments it reads like holocaust deniers.
    Wow Keating didn’t leave a shitload of debt behind. Wow Swan actually was a good financial manager and didnt leave us with record debt.. ..Gillard and Rudd were extremely competent Prime Ministers. Ricky.Pann…..what thought processes are wizzing between your ears. Just stay camped out in left field buddy. Your logic gives me a headache.
    May I suggest all you whisperers sign up as mature age students at TAFE and do Economics 101….then come back for discussions.

  101. Well tweed seeing that you fiberals like to make the idiot analogy of the family budget , I thought I’d put it into perspective for you..Tony Abbott talks about the economy like its a household budget, he is hocked to the tune of 1.2 million dollars..his mortgage repayment went down 200 bucks a week.. that about what someone gets on the dole… May I suggest that you stop believing the spoon fed lies in that pamphlet?
    1/2 the debate Keating acquired came from Howard who sold assets to retire debt..so there you go..that truth stuff is a bitch.. 🙄 Labor voters are nasty… NOssy get off your high horse FFS, its pathetic.. Nasty? What are you here dickhead ask yourself that? goose 🙄

  102. It seems that Labor supporters are full of nothing but hate.

    Hilarious, considering AM commercial talkback radio is euphemistically known as hate radio and caters for a demographic which is made up entirely of gullible conservatives who are easily pliable with not only political propaganda, but advertising. They are the only demographic dumb enough to fall for that shite. Then there is Murdochs rags that are essentially hate manifestos, especially the Daily Terror and Australian.

    It may “seem” that way to you. But conservatives have the runs on the board to prove it.

  103. And why are people like Tweed and Neil, so desperate to wipe evidence of the GFC and Howards debt that we inherited?

    Or the fact that Howard & captain smirk were no financial wizards. Who the IMF said Howard pork barreled our money away, while wasting the mining boom.


    Gotta pay off ya mates dont ya? Gut health , infrastructure and education for a decade, because conservative ideology dictates, that these should all be privatized. And we KNOW, that is exactly what they will target again. You can read right wingers like a book.

  104. Hmmmmm. Howard’s debt. Stunning Bob. How would you describe the Swan Gillard Rudd $400 Billion debt ceiling when Howard was +$60 Billion cash in the bank. You understand about Debit / Credit Bob? Credit Cards Debit Cards? Money in the bank?
    Try and stay with the program Bob.

  105. In one paragraph Tweed proves he doesn’t understand government debt and deficit at all.

    Oh by the way Boswell, Treasurer in WA, and this has made The West Australian, has stated the WA government is going to borrow billions for big ticket spending. The richest State in Australia with the highest tax revenue including the highest mining royalties is going further into an already large debt accelerated by the State Liberal government on getting into power.

    Can’t blame Labor on that one, this is purely of the WA State Liberals making.

    And the thing is, which is what the right wingers just don’t get on government debt and deficits, I fully agree with the reasons Barnett and Boswell are going into such large debt for, the same as I did for O’Farrell’s first debt package, which also had nothing to do with the previous State Labor government.

    And the thing also is read up on most of the major economist and economic institutions as they also agree with the government debt and deficits implemented, it’s mostly economically ignorant right wingers who mindlessly ape the Liberal line without understanding why the Liberals are using that line.

    What will be telling and an absolutely certainty from these very same commentators is if Abbott is in government and his economic policies as currently laid out fail miserably, as they must, will first blame Labor and when that excuse runs out will be saying the debt racked up is good debt purely because it’s the Liberals who racked it up.

    Not that Abbott will actually do what he’s promising now anyway. His first shonky audit commission will see him break major promises within short shrift with the right wingers again making excuse after excuse and slavishly saying Abbott didn’t lie.

  106. Tweed to repeat John Wards comment on the other post.

    THE MYTH OF THE LIBERAL SURPLUS. That it was achieved by good Economic Management. here’s what Howard and Costello sold.

    Commonwealth Bank: Howard And Floats 51% at $10.40 a share.
    Commonwealth Funds Management: trade sale that raised $63 million.
    Airports: sale of separate long-term leasehold interests in Brisbane,
    Melbourne and Perth airports generating gross proceeds of of $3.31 Billion.
    Australian National Rail: trade sale that raised $95 million. Brisbane Airport trade sale that raised $1.4 billion.
    Melbourne Airport: trade sale that raised $1.3 billion. Perth Airport; trade sale that raised $643 million.
    Telstra: initial public float that raised $14.3 billion.
    Adelaide Airport: sold to Parafield and Adelaide Airport LTD for $467 million.
    Darwin & Alice springs Airport: sold to Alice Springs & Darwin International Airport PTY LTD for $108 Million.
    Canberra airport: sold to Consortium led by the Snow Brother for $65 million.
    Hobart airport: sold to Hobart international Airport PTY LTD for $35 million.
    Australian Industry Development Corporation: trade sale that Raised $200 million.
    Broadcast Australia: Howard sells the SBS and ABC transmission towers for $650 Million.
    National Rail corporation and Freightcorp: Howard Government received $1.05 billion from Toll holdings and Patrick corp for it’s rail assets.
    Sold 167 tonnes of gold, returning just $2.4billion for the gold that was sold via a “single broker engaged with out tender”.




  107. I think conservatives tune in and consume media through the myopic world view of hate radio and murdochs censored news and develop this insulated national view, where no one agrees except conservative pundits and they are shocked to see a world outside of that comfort zone that doesn’t reconcile with their cyclopian beliefs.

  108. Well Howard/Costello wanted to get our AAA credit rating back which we lost under Hawke/Keating. Getting debt down quickly was the only way to do it. We finally got it back in 2003.

    Campbell Newman is facing the same problem in Queensland. A downgraded credit rating thanks to Beattie/Bligh and a massive debt.

  109. Neil, the continued and deliberate forgetting of external factors, by you tweed and scraper is just trolling, or delusion.

    QLD suffered not only the GFC, but 2 natural disasters in the space of a year. Newman, blew the council budget out and got themselves into massive debt also, but oh no, it could ONLY be due to mismanagement.

  110. You didn’t answer the question. You say Costello wasted the boom which started in 2004. In his last three years he saved $50B. All the boom was banked.

  111. All the boom was banked.

    If that is the case, then they pissed all of the final sale of Telstra up against the wall instead.

  112. All the boom was banked

    Actually, most of it was pi$$ed up against a wall 🙄

    And even Can’t Do is blaming natural disasters for his inability to reduce debt in Qld. He has NFI that the way he’s going about it is only making the economy worse…

    What has over a decade of natural disasters cost us?
    $15.8 billion Total estimated cost of disaster events since 2002

    Queensland State Budget 2013-14

  113. Actually, most of it was pi$$ed up against a wall”

    See it is comments like that that makes me so anti-labor. Costello’s last three budgets saved $50B.

    As for Newman since it is your vote for Beattie who created the debt perhaps you can offer a solution. It does not matter anyway- none of your solutions would work.

  114. Costello’s last three budgets saved $50B.

    How much did they get for the last stage of the Telstra sell off?

  115. “How much did they get for the last stage of the Telstra sell off?”

    And you wonder why I have to repeat myself. One more time.


    Get it???

  116. (oops, pressed post too early)

    That’s right, to pay off debt

    Yet you claim they paid it off AND got budget surpluses.

    True, but,they paid it off by flogging everything off, not by ‘prudent’ management.

  117. IT WENT TO PAY OFF DEBT!!!!!!!!!




  118. Money from asset sales was not put into the budget as revenue, it was used to pay off debt (which is one thing we have been saying) or put into the Future Fund.

    (italics mine)

    But that is only partly true, and only for the sale of companies. The money raised from the fire sale of other government assets went straight to the Budget’s bottom line – $56 billion worth in the Coalition’s first few years in office.

    The worst of the deals was the sale of the DFAT headquarters in Canberra – it enriched one year’s surplus, but at an enormous continuing cost in ever-increasing rent.

  119. Found more, this time on Costello’s tricky accounting, which he went to court to hide from the public.

    “Costello decided to exclude from the ”underlying” budget balance something now known as ”net cash flows from investments in financial assets for policy purposes”. Businesses such as Qantas were classed as financial assets because what the government owned was shares in those businesses, and shares are financial assets, not ”real” (physical) assets.

    Good move. Selling existing businesses had little effect on economic activity. It was really just an alternative way of funding the budget deficit to selling government bonds, not a way of reducing it.

    But good ole Pete left himself a loophole: he didn’t exclude from the underlying budget balance proceeds from the sale of non-financial assets such as land or buildings, even though the same argument applies.”

  120. Tom another (big) problem has been found in Abbott’s company tax cuts that will cost his bottom line and he hasn’t counted.

    There’s a loophole that allows high end professionals such as doctors, dentists, engineers etc. to register themselves as a business so as to stop paying income tax and pay Abbott’s reduced business tax instead.

  121. “The worst of the deals was the sale of the DFAT headquarters in Canberra

    So Costello sold $56B worth of property did he??

    Businesses such as Qantas were classed as financial assets

    Hawke/Keating sold Qantas.

  122. Pity that Howard did not split the two arms of Telstra when he sold it. I suspect we would already have fibre if this occurred. IMHO, that is the reason Howard’s more than a dozen attempts, and Labor’s original schemes were failures. Also explain much for the delay in implementing NBNCo. All those problems have now been solved.

    Turnbull wants to reverse this, and bring Telstra into the equation. Pay them money, to put an inferior scheme. Wants to bring back that Telstra’s head, that all hated.

    It is not only about fibre to the premises, but reverting to giving Telstra control of the net work.

    Fun listening to pollies arguing over unemployment figures that tell us little.

  123. I have no problems selling off public infrastructure if a argument cannot be found to justify keeping it in government hands.

    ]What I do believe, that all money raised, should be re-invested in new infrastructure that is essential for future prosperity.

    Should not be used for recurrent expenses or paying off debt.

  124. In fact we now live in a new world order, with what is fast becoming a global economy. We have to survive in such an era. In fact we are lucky, as we are in the position to thrive in such an environment.

    Yes that Asian century is very inviting,

    This will only occur if we elect a government that looks forward, not behind us. What worked back then, will not today.

    To begin with, we need that NBNCO and CEF schemes. Both open the way to the future,

    We will miss out, if we do not have the best educated and skilled workforce.

    There will be no second chance if we get it wrong.

    As for the economy at this time, we need to be patience, waiting

    I suspect we will be paying more, that we have had so cheaply for a decade or so.

    Should also lead, I hope for more jobs, and making more here.

  125. This election is about dealing with an transitional economy, in a global economy, that is changing daily.

    It will be a shame if the public is duped by the Opposition cries of debt and austerity. It only shows they are either ignoring or do not recognize the challenges that face us.

    Sometimes I worry about Rudd, nut believe that Gillard did. Every action she took, was to build for the future.

    We need builders, no time or place for those who which to demolish all in their path.

    Abbott is NOT telling us what he is about. That is terrifying.

  126. Abbott wants a people’s campaign, a people’s choice.

    Please, people out there, tell Abbott what you want. Make him listen.

    Make him tell not want he will do, but how he will do it.

    Make him let you know, who will be picking up the tab. In black and white. No weasel words or slogans. They tell you nothing.

  127. After trashing the economy for three years, Abbott and Hockey are in no position to complain about misrepresentation. And as a putative prime minister, Abbott has a clear responsibility to explain his program and how it can be afforded – not least with the addition this week of a $2.5 billion annual company tax cut. But with the standard of debate and respect for the truth so low on both sides, voters are the ones being dudded.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/voters-dudded-by-damned-lies-and-statistics-20130807-2rgkb.html#ixzz2bLwyjM7F

  128. This we need to keep in mind. Taxes can be good. More than that, they could be needed.

    “……In justice to Rudd, and in confirmation of Goebbels’ foresight, he knows that the Coalition and the Murdoch media have conditioned the electorate to believe that we pay too much tax and that we live in one of the world’s most heavily taxed countries. (The truth is that we are one of the most undertaxed developed countries, even accounting for the fact that most of those countries are not raising enough tax to cover their public revenue.) He knows too that the Coalition, in its suite of “magic pudding” promises, is telling us all that it would cut taxes.

    It has been up to Ken Henry, now departed from Treasury, to make the strong point that both Labor and the Coalition are ducking the issue of tax reform. If we are to enjoy a high standard of public goods and services we need to raise our public revenue. Henry’s is a refreshing contribution, rising above the voices of greed and sectoral interest that have so far characterised this campaign, and it’s a credit to the Fairfax media for giving it such good coverage.

    If we had an Opposition worthy of its claim that it is competent to sit on the Treasury benches, it would stop lying and obfuscating about fiscal policy, and criticise the Government for its real fiscal shortcomings – its obsession with the cosmetics of a “balanced budget”, missed opportunities to use its strong credit rating and low cost of finance to invest in infrastructure, and its failure to engage with the community about the need to strengthen permanently our public revenue.

    – See more at: http://newmatilda.com/2013/08/08/big-tax-and-spend-lies#sthash.mXfTiZJU.dpuf………..

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