PNG

You’d have all heard by now Kevin Rudd’s announcement that any asylum-seeker arriving in Australia by boat will be sent to Papua New Guinea for processing and resettlement. You can read it here on news.com. It’s not worth me repeating what the main features of this announcement are, rather, preferring instead to hear your views.

Personally, my wish is that asylum seekers be processed in Australia with the view of having them settled in Australia. But neither do I endorse people smuggling nor like the idea that people drown because of the people smugglers.

Will this fix the latter?

147 comments on “PNG

  1. My daughter has legally applied to emigrate to Australia five times from the UK over a 10 year period. She’s my only child and I’ve been living here for 26 years! Her applications have always been knocked back (she never receives her fee back though). She and her husband have worked since leaving school, both have well paid jobs and could easily find work in Australia. It’s very frustrating when we learn of how many illegal immigrants land in Australia year after year, or how many people are accepted every year. Sadly she’s given up now.

  2. I think, turn back the boats has been put to bed at last. One would think that PNG was a bad place to live. I believe as many of these people are educated, PNG might benefit from having them.

    Wonder how far down the track was Gillard on this one. Sounds like it might work. Abbott once again walked away, while the questions are still coming.

  3. My concern is PNG. Can the nation absorb the people into their system/economy without altering their culture?

    Are we, as Australian taxpayers going to be burdened financially for these people and if so, how long?

    And most importantly, how does the people of PNG and their polity feel about an announcement that in fact is a transgression of their sovereignty?

    Rudd has the golden knack of creating unseen consequences, this has all the hallmarks.

  4. I believe that Rudd might have hinted at, that we will take more, outside these people.

    There is no nice answer to this question. The fact that the matter gas become so politicized, makes that impossible.

    Would love to be at that briefing with Abbott, Bishop and Morrison, and the PNG Prime Minister.

    PNG is a backward country that need people with the skills to develop further. Maybe there is a good future there for many.

    As long as they are processed quickly and move on to be settled in the country, I find little to criticize. If they are left tl languish on Mannix Island, that is a different matter.

  5. Thanks, Michael

    For once I’m almost speechless with sadness, disgust and shame that between them, KR and TA could not arrive at a compassionate agreement. So much for the Australian ethos of a fair go.

    Patricia

  6. I’m sorry Barbara, but your daughter does not sound like she is fleeing oppressive regime, and therefore unlikely to be regarded as an asylum-seeker, and therefore not granted refugee status under the UNHCR, to which Australia is a signatory.
    People seeking asylum for whatever reason, are not ‘illegal immigrants’ as they’re seeking asylum. Get the language right.
    People sadly will do anything and risk everything in the hope of finding a better life.

  7. Scaper, no culture is static, they are always in flux. The question should be, will they add and enhance the culture, as the many waves of immigration has to Australia.

    Culture should be seen as a living and always growing thing.

  8. If you bother to listen to Rudd’s speech you would know the answers.

    Are we, as Australian taxpayers going to be burdened financially for these people and if so, how long?

    Yes. Rudd has said it will be expensive.

    And most importantly, how does the people of PNG and their polity feel about an announcement that in fact is a transgression of their sovereignty?

    How is a transgression of their sovereignty? That’s a strange one when the PNG government has signed up to it with open arms and Rudd contacted the UNHCR about it as well.

    To me this is sad and what it has come down to in gutter politics instigated by Abbott, and make no bones about it, this is what this move is about.

    First Abbott went on and on about abolishing the carbon tax in lie after lie about it. So Rudd simply got rid of it himself.

    Then Abbott and co shifted to Stop the Boats and made it into the greatest failure in Australian history and how only they could stop them. Well Rudd has now taken away that attack as well. And it’s not just PNG that will be the final resettlement country as Rudd is in regional negotiations to resettle them in other countries as well.

    The boats won’t stop, at least not in the short term. The smugglers and corrupt Indonesian authorities will see to it that the asylum seekers don’t get the message about not being resettled in Australia.

    I thought only Abbott could go lower on this after the shamefulness of Gillard bringing in substandard offshore facilities and the dreadful Bridging visas, but Rudd has disgracefully trumped them all.

  9. By the way just one of the costs apart from the hospitals, schools and policing Rudd has promised, is the building of a university in PNG.

  10. Personally, my wish is that asylum seekers be processed in Australia with the view of having them settled in Australia.

    I AGREE!!

    This is a day of shame 😦

  11. People will stop fleeing their homeland, when the persecution and despair back there that goes with it ceases, however I do not seeing that ending any time soon.

    From memory many Irish left home via the UK to come Australia, was there an outcry in Australia back then?? I don’t think so.

    So I do NOT see this as a solution, just a Kevin stop gap attempt to calm the nervous nellies who think the country is overflowing with refugees.
    Abbott and co will continue their antics on the subject as they reckon they are on a winner.
    Kevin’s action will just spur them into greater efforts to highlight the problem, any one would think it just happens here, it is a world problem and the UN needs to get it’s act together to solve it.

    An old diagram on Possum’s blog a few years back really showed who has the problem and here in Australia we have the least cause for concern.
    The Lying rodent must be proud of Australia and Australians now.
    ps hope he gets struck by a cricket ball. Amen

  12. Bilko, I hate to say this, but there was a time when the Irish were also looked down on. Irish Catholics that is. When I was young,

  13. It is yet another Rudd solution of putting sticking plaster on a broken leg. The whole issue of asylum seekers and refugees has to go back to the U.N. Firstly for a complete review of the provisions of the Refugee Convention which is completely outdated and created to address a different issue.i.e statelessness. Secondly all of the countries in the UN must be required to share the financial and human burden in equal amounts, rather than such responsibility being taken by a few western nations. Thirdly distribution of those seeking asylum must be to direct those with educational qualifications and skills training to under-developed countries to enable and assist in their growth. Finally, refugees and asylum seekers should not be permitted to go country-hopping. They should be required to seek asylum in the first country they arrive in and which offers them safety from their persecutors. They can then apply through formal and legitimate channels if they wish to seek re-settlement in another country.

  14. If all one had was a ‘life’ choice between death or persecution at home…. PNG would be look’n good, no matter what the ‘politic’, …. what I really dislike about this whole ‘boat’ people ‘beat-up’ is the frothing of the mouth of my fellow Australians on this issue… un-Advance Australia unfair…. I curse Tony, the LNP and the MSM for the disgraceful manipulation of this issue for pithy political gain.. they have stirred up ordinary Aussies on an issue that, really, isn’t going to impact on their every day lives…. all Tony and cohorts have done/are doing is empowering the hateful, small minded bigots that any normal civilised democratic country dismiss to the fringes as ‘nut-jobs’.
    John Howard, Tony Abbott and the LNP will be shown up by history for the low life **nts they mosy definitly are.. 👿

  15. Had the same feeling of shame today that I felt during the Tampa stand off, then a feeling of shame combined with anger when Howard won that election.

  16. Hard to make judgements on this yet, but I think it may be a useful circuit breaker.

    What interests me more than the asylum seekers’/people smugglers’ perspective, who have all demonstrated a very strong determination to break down any barrier to their passage to Australia, is what do the people of Papua New Guinea think of this. If it is welcomed as an opportunity for development of facilities like a university, hospital, roads and other services then why not wait and see if these do in fact eventuate and the people of that country come out winners?

    If it finally ‘stops the boats’ after all the likely challenges then that’s a plus. We need to start a different discourse about those bloody boats, and start instead to focus on how we can help all those wretched souls languishing in camps ‘waiting their turn.’

    PS What is it about SHY that is so off-putting?

  17. Rudd has gone further to the Right than any Coalition Plan, how much support
    Has he from His own members.
    This is a shocker for PNG and all Papua New Guineans culturally.
    PNG is a very Christian Country and Iranians for example will be very badly treated
    Because of their Muslim belief. I am unaware of a single mosque in the country.
    Speak with 20 years in PNG.
    Backflip week:
    Tuesday – abandon the Carbon Tax
    Friday. – trans ship Boat People
    I thought these were core Labor Policies.

  18. It’s not edifying but in the end Labor had no choice. They had to come up with something that would stem the flow of unauthorised arrivals. This should do that. It also means more refugees waiting patiently in camps can be repatriated here. Also on the positive side, it deprives Abbott of one of his longest-standing and most potent talking points. It’s a brilliant tactical move, shameful, yes, let’s hope it feeds into the electoral defeat of the LNP.

  19. VBS, just for something different why don’t you come up with something completely opposite to the convo on the thread… 🙄 …. you, man bilong giaman, you 😉

  20. Perhaps, but reading the PNG travel advice it shouldn’t surprise if those attaining residency there just hopped back on a boat and headed for Darwin. It appears they would have a case for asylum if they or their family felt threatened. I still can’t believe that one of the wealthiest countries in the world would even propose this as a
    solution. Too cute and, knowing Rudd, will fail in the implementation.

  21. PNG has been Rudded – oops I meant duded.
    This country has a lot of its own issues resettling large numbers of outsiders
    Will never work. Will cause massive future division and violence.
    Another failed policy with huge dollar cost implications.And all to win votes
    for Kevin’s re-election .Hypocracy of the highest order not a solution.
    This will cause an uproar. How bad can Our Government get!

  22. A policy Abbott agrees with 100% Voyager. How bad can our opposition get!

    And don’t come across all concerned now. If a Liberal government had bought this in you would be praising it all over the place.

  23. VOYAGER, show us you knowledge and tell us the predominant religion of boat people?

    Also Iranians won’t be coming in the future as Indonesia will not allow them into the country.

  24. Face it VOYAGER, you are more pissed off over Rudd outflanking the gormless Abbott, the way it’s being reported this morning, than any concern for PNG.

  25. I just saw a link to this. I would have hoped it was a fake, but I fear it is not. I would have been outraged if howard did this. I’m even more so because it is a Labor Government doing it.

    Politicians, they’re ALL arseholes!

  26. With you on that Tom.

    Paraphrasing, I think it was Cairns.

    It’s better to lose an election fighting on Labor values than win an election on abandoning them.

  27. Read that Howard did attempt to do this Tom but lacked the diplomatic skills to carry it off. Remember that at the time the region was suspicious of Australia as it looked like Howard took up Bush’s deputy sheriff role for the area.

    That would be why Abbott and Morrison are backing Rudd up on this, only attacking him on the front that they believe he can’t successfully manage it, as Rudd has “history” of bad government.

  28. Found the Cairns statement:

    It is far better to be defeated while attempting to implement Labor policies than to be defeated after surrendering them. I do not believe we can win by surrendering these or, if by any chance we did win, that winning would be worthwhile.

    Jim Cairns, Deputy PM, 1975

  29. There is a big difference between the Howard and Rudd solution. Howard was into offshore assessment, but most ended up here. Rudd is saying more. He is saying offshore assessing and settlement in PNG.

    Rudd is saying more. He is saying if they get on the boats, they will never be allowed into this country.

    I believe it is a bit of a furthy, that the message will not get through quickly. It seems that many, maybe most, have contacts and relations in this country. Many of the warnings come from people in this country, not directly from boats.

    If anything can stop the boats, this will.

  30. It almost feels that Rudd has out conservatived the conservatives. TA has said turn back, stop the boats, who do you trust?..Well Rudd has in the Fiberals case, ‘stopped the gloats’. As to if this plan is a good idea or not remains to be seen as the devils in the detail. This has broad side bitch slapped the floposition who gloats they’ve form and credibility on this issue based on Howards way, which we all know is utter bullshit. Is this a good idea? Its a start, I’m open minded, PNG is a developing country and maybe these people get second prize. One thing for sure is the floposition is dangerously nowhere on this issue with little more than slogans and impractical rhetorical nonsense. I’m open minded as the complexity of this problem should be above political advantage as humanity has sadly taken a back seat to politics. One thing is apprent, Rudd has none more in two weeks than others have done in 10 years for better or worst. As always the Greens are nowhere, obstructive, whining and irrelevant as they were on the ETS

  31. There does appear to be one upside. I heard that we are going to increase our Refugee intake. That is a good thing, if it is a fact.

  32. PNG is a developing country and maybe these people get second prize.

    The “new settlers” would bring with them skills useful to a developing country?

    In reality it might be that few asylum seekers will be sent to PNG because news of this policy is likely to put a freeze on people smuggler operations. That being so, no more drownings, rescue emergencies etc.

  33. Well if it’s done one thing it’s broken Abbott.

    Some reporting on how bad he looked this morning, as though he hadn’t slept, crooked tie, eyes downcast and his telltale tongue flicking out more than usual.

    Two good pieces on the matter from Piping Shrike that should be read.
    Whatever happened to the Asylum Seeker debate? Monday, 10 June 2013
    Foreigners Saturday, 20 July 2013

    Then we have the height of utter hypocrisy from the Tele. After using the asylum seekers as a beating stick against the government for so long now and only espousing Abbott’s unrealistic proposition of towing the boats back to a hell hole that won’t accept them, it’s exclaiming on asylum seekers being sent to the hell hole of PNG.

    Apparently the only hell holes that are good enough for them are Abbott’s approved hell holes.

  34. Morrison now on ABC 24. Fires everywhere, including in your roof. Was riled up last night. Going to be fun to watch.

  35. The first bit of pressure and Abbott looks a wreck. He would never cope with the pressures of the PM job. Sure, the media would shield him from as much as they could, but some would gravitate to him, and he’s shown how easily he frays.

  36. Who cares what was done six years ago. This is a new ball game today. Time for Morrison to mover on from school yard, he did it miss, and onto the reality of today.

    Morrison, is doing as they do with the economy, talking the scheme down. I am sure the boats smugglers are rubbing their hands with glee.

  37. Can’t say, what they bring Cupp as I can’t say if this is a good idea. Nevertheless its an idea that could potentially be a win win for all concerned. I don’t know enough about PNG to make that call but I’m sure no matter how it all pans out the political strategists are peeling it all apart for political clout and power. Rudd has seriously torpedoed Abbott and the faker, calling them out and exposing their lies of no substanc. This is a decisive leader and a diplomatic statesmen proving with action not slogans and free ride bullshit. Its the pointy end.. Keying Puts up.. Abbott shuts up.

  38. I do not believe this thing has been cooked up in three weeks. I am sure there has been plans in the oven for much longer. Gillard was just biding her time, cleaning the deck, before moving onto this and the carbon tax.

    Yes, Morrison is working hard, at ensuring the scheme will not work. Still wants to turn boats back. Still wants TPV.. Why, why why. If they cannot come. visas are not needed.

    So we are still going to hear, turning the boats back.

  39. Morrison was on the ABC again?? I don’t recall Labor having that much access to the ABC when they were in opposition.

  40. Damn the ABC is giving a huge amount of time to the opposition over this, from long Morrison interviews/pressers to Abbott at the Queensland LNP convention.

  41. Bottom line here – IF this “breaks the people smugglers’ model” it will mean not many end up in PNG anyway. IF that is the case and IF the intake from refugee camps in Indonesia & Malaysia is increased, we’ll end up with what everyone wants anyway – more genuine refugees settled directly in Australia without people risking their lives paying to get a “leaky boat” ride to Christmas Island…

  42. Well, the first boat has turned up since the new policy was announced.

    Will women and children or the fathers be sent to Devils Island? Don’t believe so, which means the smugglers will concentrate on that clientele.

    Not looking forward to the next incident.

  43. Fed up @7.22pm Good point.
    My parents were Irish whilst I was born in London my holiday visits as a child to Eire as it is now called had me defending the English and back in London defending the Irish, not sure if one was Arthur or Marta situation. Dad would say to me he would not trust a Northern Irishman regardless of religion the world does not seem to have progressed very far since then.
    re your 10.29am “Never has a man sounded so desperate”, the rug has just been pulled out from under him and he is in free fall. One might consider this a first step in getting a real pacific solution underway, if nothing else it might just get the lieberals to SHTFU.

  44. Just come home to face Bishop, still complaining that Rudd will not taker the blame for today’s situation. Is Abbott going to take the blame for the Houston Plan not being given a go.

    What does it matter who is to blame., That is ancient history, nothing to do with today.

    Time for Bishop and Co, to catch up with present time.

    Still doing their best , to talk down any hope of success. Smugglers must be rubbing hands with glee.

  45. TS, it appears Abbott and his ilk are going nowhere. Going to stay with TPV and turn back the boats.

  46. Bilko, I am really unlucky. My forebears came from both parts of Ireland pre 1860. Yes, orange and green. There was a tiny amount from the UK and France.

    Father presbyterian, mother Catholic.

    I believe in the 1950s if oner wanted to move into management, being a Catholic was a barrier. OK for the PS but nothing else. Three was also the well documented wars between public and Catholic schools.

    Listening to Abbott, we fixed the problem. Sickening address to the Queensland LNP. Will someone please explain, Rudd is correct, things are different now. If Abbott cannot identify the problem, how can he offer a solution. It is obvious, from the Coalition response, they really have nothing to offer. Slogans solve nothing.

  47. scaper, there are two vessels that arrive during the announcement, They are not under the new arrangements,

    One boat since, will be. If they do not claim asylum, they will be helped to return to another country. Those who do, will not be accepted into Australia, under any condition.

  48. Mind you, nil should support this policy. dirtman will just continue sniping without offering discourse, as his only ‘opinion’ is Labor = BAD

  49. Fed up, yes , cos that’s all they’ve got 😦

    What a pathetic specimen Abbott is, and his LNP sycophants are just as bad 😯

    And now they’re all rev’d up, and nowhere to go 😀 what a bunch of monumental losers 😯 or maybe that should be just “mental” losers 😀

    Cheers 😀

  50. ………if nothing else it might just get the lieberals to SHTFU.

    I fear it won’t. bilko. Unfortunately, they have gaping cake holes and simply have to emit as much noise as they can, whether it makes sense or not.

  51. ….Rudd has in the Fiberals case, ‘stopped the gloats’.

    Like it Ricky.

    ……..eyes downcast and his telltale tongue flicking out more than usual

    The reptile tasting the air to determine which way to slither, ME

  52. The PNG Solution in current form will never work.
    PNG could cop 7000 illegals in the first year. That number will not integrate
    Into their population , no matter how much you pay.
    Neo-Colonialist policy in the extreme from Rudd. It just won’t work,it will never
    work. What’s the estimated cost? Well you can triple that And it still won’t work.
    Policy on the run to buy votes , works for no one. Kevin has not changed because
    It works for him and his Ego-Centric ways.

  53. Well done VBS @ 10.14Rudd’isPM.. I think you have ‘slid’ a lot into your comment there, ay. 😀
    ” The PNG Solution in current form will never work ”
    So thats a ‘NO’ from you .. based on what? “Please explain”
    ” PNG could cop 7000 illegals in the first year. That number will not integrate
    Into their population , no matter how much you pay.” …. ok exthpert, based on what ??? “Please explain”
    ” Neo-Colonialist policy in the extreme from Rudd. It just won’t work,it will never
    work.” …. sorry 😳 , VBS 😉 … I got nothing…… Neo-Colonialist, 😯 … what the *uck,VBS… no, really cobba 🙄 no need to explain, VBS ….. I so get you now 🙄 😛
    ” .. . What’s the estimated cost? Well you can triple that And it still won’t work.”
    YAWN, Neil….. and you know that because???? “Please explain”
    “Policy on the run to buy votes , works for no one. Kevin has not changed because
    It works for him and his Ego-Centric ways.” ….. policy on the run 😆 … and to buy votes .. 😆 …. now your pushing the long bow, you projectionist, you 😆 … VOS, there ‘s this guy called Tony Abbott, you may of heard of him 😆 “Please explain”
    VBS, ” Turn back the boats” is policy on the run…… and you should hang your head in shame for supporting it…… since when has wanting to have a better life.. or indeed to have ‘life’ been a crime….. surely as a RW’er, Neil, you could/should understand the concept of ‘people’ trying to better themselves ( and stay alive at the same time)….. surely its not that hard a concept, VOS … and if it is 😉 .. could you “Please explain”

  54. VBS/ VOS,(woteva) sorry for calling you “yawn Neil” and RW’er Neil …. I can only say, in my defence, how you trolls ‘blend’…… no, really 😀

  55. Voyager this is also the policy Abbott wanted and has fully agreed with.

    Are you now saying that the Coalition have it wrong as well?

  56. “The PNG Solution in current form will never work.” (VBS above)

    ABC News Just In…

    “A group of Afghan asylum seekers in Indonesia say they will no longer travel to Australia by boat after discovering they would be resettled in Papua New Guinea.

    Upon hearing the news, the group of Afghan Hazaras waiting in Indonesia’s Puncak area said they would not make the journey to Australia, but said Australia should fund the UNHCR to help process their claim”

    And the ink has barely dried on the agreement.

  57. What I am saying is this.
    ‘The prospect of the long term settlement of people from the 4 countries of origin
    of boat people is impossible. Papua New Guineans are fiercely protective of their
    Land and culture hence making new arrivals outcasts. There is a real prospect
    violence will be levelled at these settlers. Yes it is Neo Colonialism because
    Rudd (Australian Government) has tricked and bribed PNG into this deal.
    A bit like the old days when axes and beads were the gifts of choice.
    There has been no disclosure of cost by Rudd, why not? Labors record in
    Running any programme to budget is shocking. I have a deep love for
    PNG and its people , this is a real doozy.’

  58. You gotta laugh at the disconnect from reality by the right wingers. We see it from the right wingers who post here, mostly nonsense troll posts, but we know about it from the right wing media commentators, they aren’t journalists even if they call themselves that.

    As left wing protests against Rudd’s policy happen in Melbourne with many more planned across Australia, and Labor members speak out, ABC Breakfast just interviewed one this morning, Bolt and Devine are calling the left hypocrites for not protesting.

    It would be a real eye opener if one day they demanded the same standard and sincerity from the right as they harangue the left for.

  59. Voyager

    Did Howard use beads and axes for Nauru ?. No ! he sat down and discussed it with their government just like Rudd has done. Honestly, is that all you can come up with ?. Abbott has fully agreed with what Rudd has done, he just thinks it wont work under the ALP but will under the LNP and that is just political posturing. Surely even you can see that. I am not saying the PNG solution is perfect that’s for sure.

  60. Mangrove Jack just on ABC News Breakfast.

    The people smugglers who a little while ago said that nothing would stop them sending the boats, including a Abbott/Howard policy, have now told the ABC that they are rethinking their tactics in light of Rudd’s policy shift.

    This is what shits the right more than anything, that this will be successful, just as the Malaysian solution could have been. Above anything else they want Labor to fail, no matter what the cost to Australia.

    So you have the stupid situation of the Coalition approving just about every policy out there and giving it a tick, then attacking it incessantly from that moment on.

    This is another case of that. They went on about the terrible drownings at sea and children behind wire, when they had no qualms about them under Howard, and now something terrible is being done to stop that, they protest against that, solely for the reason that it’s Labor who have instigated it. If Abbott had done this, and remember he is fully supportive of it, then the same posters here espousing failure would be pushing success.

  61. “Papua New Guineans are fiercely protective of their
    Land and culture hence making new arrivals outcasts.”

    So where did Julius Chan pop up from ?

  62. I believe there are more announcements to come. Wonder how much was set in motion, when Gillard visited PNG. Burke said this morning, PNG approached Australia, not the other way around.

    We also have Indonesia, stopping the flow into their country.

    We have a hint of Rudd raising the numbers to 27,000, the extra I hope, coming from our region. Would take much pressure off people, feeling the need to get on boats.

    Morrison, has promised to bring this number back to 14,000, from the 20,000 we have now.

    Cannot see an election, before the conference that Indonesia has called under the Bali Group, for late August.

    It might be prudent for Morrison and Abbott to put a sox in it for the time being. To stop talking down any chance of success. I am sure smugglers will hope, that he continues with his claims that it will not work. Same goes for talking down the economy.

    Maybe the penny will drop with Abbott, it is now time for policies, and not we will do better, but how we will do better.

    That asylum seeker summed it up well. “It is no longer an option”.

    We have the stick, we now need the carrot.

    Does one really believe what the media is pushing today, that we did not notify Indonesia, that thousands will be deserted there. That is easily fixed. We fund the UN to speed up processing and take more. In Indonesia, there is supposed to be 10,000. Not a great number, but taking 600 per year, is not enough.

    Same goes for Malaysia.

    Newman now on ABC
    24

  63. This is still the real story in MHO.

    “………MAL Brough’s role in the failed James Ashby sexual harassment case against Peter Slipper continues to raise questions about whether the LNP should ever have endorsed him.

    It also puts in question Tony Abbott’s judgment – and his wisdom and truthfulness in saying Mr Bough had always been upfront about the whole affair.

    The issue is not likely to go away.

    According to a recent article in The Guardian, online activists have paid more than $50,000 into a fund called the Ashbygate Trust to engage lawyers, journalists and a private detective to investigate how far the plot against Slipper extended inside the opposition.

    The lengthy piece opens with Peter Slipper’s wife Inge saying: “He is heterosexual. He is heterosexual,” despite the lewd text messages between Ashby and Slipper revealed in court documents.

    “I love this man and this marriage will survive,” Mrs Slipper is reported to have said.

    The piece by David Marr goes to great lengths to detail Mal Brough’s role in the tawdry affair.

    It contains no startling revelations, but rather puts together much of the detail contained in the court documents from last December when Justice Steven Rares of the federal court threw out the case as a politically motivated abuse of process.

    It does, however, put the heat back on Mal Brough, where it should be – and on Tony Abbott.

    “This was a Brough operation. He was Ashby’s key ally. Without him the case may never have got off the ground,” Marr says.

    Mr Brough has today disputed much of what Mr Marr writes – and the court judgment itself.

    He reportedly told Marr that the court case is “a sideshow, an unfortunate sideshow. No one up here is interested in it.”

    Wrong Mr Brough. There are plenty of people interested in it…..”

    http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/mal-brough-v-slipper-why-you-need-know-answers/1951575/

  64. This is just as important. Also is the meeting called by Indonesia on the 20th August, I believe.

    Media is trying to say today, that Indonesia was not advised of action taken. One finds that hard to believe. Suspect Indonesia, and Malaysia are well aware of what Labor is proposing.

    All that is occurring, is that countries in the region are attempting to gain control of the process. This has to be good for all. Risking ones life should be an option that is taken off the table, while at the same time, respecting their right to seek asylum.

    “………ASYLUM seekers arriving by boat could top 50,000 a year, making a tough response to stem the rise unavoidable, Foreign Minister Bob Carr says.

    Senator Carr said on Sunday while he had been attacked for describing recent arrivals as economic migrants many on the boats had actually confirmed they were not fleeing persecution.

    He said on that basis they could not object to being resettled in PNG, a robust democracy with a free press and freedom of religion.

    “The spike in the numbers of people being brought by people smugglers makes it unavoidable,” he told Sky News.

    “You have got 3000 people arriving a month. The annual rate is something like 40 to 50,000 a year if it continues at this level……..”

    “………”The simple bold message is we decided where you are processed, we decided where you are settled and if you arrive by boat without a visa it is not going to be on Australian soil,” he said.

    Senator Carr said a second and important foundation of the policy was Indonesia’s commitment to toughen its practice of granting Iranians a visa on arrival.

    This meant Iranians would now need to acquire an Indonesian visa before departing Iran…….”

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/boat-arrivals-to-top-50000-carr/story-fni0xqi3-1226682638921

  65. ” THERE is no better time than now for Papua New Guinea to make the greatest strides in its relationship with Australia.
    Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is a man who has demonstrated with his feet, more than policy, just how much he values the relationship with PNG.”
    http://www.thenational.com.pg/?q=node/52770

  66. So amusing reading the posts here in comparison to “Thats a load of”…Clearly, lot’s of hypocrites who want to argue “pull and push” instead of the reality I have mentioned. Here we get to see most highlight that it isn’t about “safety for refugees” etc it is about “giving them” what they “feel” they should get for whatever “reason”….Insane; absolutely insane “left wing” hyperbole, nothing more…Circular logic which is to say, NO LOGIC…

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/desperation-growing-for-javas-refugees-in-waiting/story-fn9hm1gu-1226682810968

    As this article and comments here highlight it is the “push of war” and not the pull of “bad policy” or “economics” that is driving this; give me a break…Party hacks are party hacks, Liberal, Labor…same, just different rhetoric…

  67. “I agree with scaper, Tom and Mobius.
    A .day of shame”

    Wait, I thought that PNG was a signer of the UNHRC? Adrian? NO? Whats the problem then “feel gooders”? I thought it was about safety for those fleeing desperation etc? You guys are so ridiculous…

  68. “Party hacks are party hacks, Liberal, Labor…same, just different rhetoric…”

    You made a comment that I can agree with Sparta !!.

    Just a pity people cannot see this and vote for Independents to stop the rot and the rort.

  69. Because there is a better solution than PNG Sparta, but because of the xenophobia whipped up by our former racist conservative government and a corrupt right wing media that option will never be entertained.

    That option absolutely ensures the safety of those fleeing in desperation.

    Methinks it’s your narrow viewpoint of things that’s ridiculous.

  70. MT being interviewed last night has aped the Abbott and Morrison line. The PNG solution will work but that’s not the problem, it’s Labor running it. You can only trust us to run things properly.

  71. Sparta, why not stick to the facts. we have regular, weekly drownings of those coming by boat. Most do not like this situation. This in spite of the fact, they have been told they will not get visas until after those who remain in Indonesia and Malaysia.

    At the same time, Australia has raise the number they will take by seven thousand, to over twenty thousand.

    The new rules, that any that come by boat, but will end up in probably PNG. There is also to be a further increase in the number we take overall to twenty seven thousand.

    If they do not want to end up in PNG, one just does not get on the boat.

    Yes, we need to do more in both Indonesia and Malaysia, to make sure the needs of the people are be looked after.

    All that has occurred, the option of getting on that boat has been taken off the table.

  72. Mobius, I noticed that there has been released this morning by FOI, papers identifying the rorts that occurred with skilled and education visas for people from India. Up to fifty percent were bogus in I believe 2008-9. Yes, another mess of Howard, that Labor had to clean up.

    Abbott PC shortly ABC 24

  73. Yes Mobius, there are better solutions, maybe similar to the Vietnam days, but the truth is it is politically impossible.

    Bipartisanship on this problem is not an option.

    The Opposition option is not an option for many of us. It simply will not work.

  74. Fifty percent for skilled and forty for student visas from India? Yes, the Opposition always do it better,

  75. ABC really have been giving a lot of air time to Abbott and the opposition over the last few days. Yet another Abbott press conference.

    Saw that bit on false paperwork for foreign students.

  76. Going on what Albanese said, is the election going to be 5 October, called early September. Does make sense in some ways. Is a risk to allow parliament to be recalled though. Would mean that Rudd could go to Indonesian Bali meeting and the UN,

    We have Abbott, along with the lovely Mirabella, complaining about the changes made to the FBT. The sky is falling in. Just had meeting with motor industry. Talk along the lines of “will wipe Whyalla off the table”.

    Is it a company vehicle, if one does not drive it at work? The “man” is so serious.

  77. So turning back boats is not.

    Apparently, turning back the boats doesn’t constitute outsourcing our problems either.

  78. Yes he said that again in response to a question.

    It’s Australia’s problem so it has to be Australia’s solution and Australia’s borders need to be in strong hands and there are no stronger or safer hands for Australia than his hands.

    I kid you not, that was his response paraphrased. Yet the one thing he didn’t do was give what his Australian only solution would be.

    It really was just another speech full of empty meaningless words of no substance whilst going about Rudd, Rudd, Rudd having no substance.

  79. I see tabot and co are busy misrepresenting words again
    He made this claim on AM this morning

    TONY ABBOTT: Mr Rudd has been misleading to the point of dishonesty about this. He said that under the arrangement struck, everyone who came illegally by boat to Australia would go to PNG and that no-one who went to PNG would ever come to Australia.

    Neither of those assertions is borne out in the document.

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3807712.htm

    Actually, I thought what Rudd said was that none would be ‘settled’ here. Not sure he ruled them out ever passing through here?

    Is tabot making things up again?

    Are journo’s incapable of working out what words mean?

  80. Milne is complaining, that PNG is low on the list of developed countries. I wonder how high, are the countries, they are fleeing from. Suspect, they might even be lower.

    I cannot see why thius scheme is cruel. It is only about one thing, stopping boats.

    At the same time, Australia are taking many more. Maybe some, who have been trapped in the region for a decade or more, might get a chance to come.

    We have Labor upping the numbers to twenty thousand, and looks like taking that to twenty seven thousand.

    We now have the Opposition, turning back the boats and lowering the number by seven thousand, to thirteen thousand.

    It is not a deterrent. It is taking the option of coming by boats off the table.

    We will take only, but many more from the region. We will not allow any that come by boat.

  81. Fed up, yes the first question asked was about the number of asylum seekers who have stated that they will no longer try coming by boat, and her reply was it just won’t work. WTF the reporter had just told her that it was already working.

    The woman is a complete and utter idiot! 😯

    Cheers 😀

  82. Looking for partners or venture capitalists for a new business out of Cooktown. A fleet of six 9 meter high speed water taxis powered by quad 225 Honda 4 strokes. Top speed 60 knots. Carrying capacity 24 people. Round the clock runs out of PNG.

  83. No, not lauding Rudd. Talking about new policy. Policy that seems to be well developed for it to be so quickly put in place.

    Suspect there has been much groundwork done, before Rudd came back on the scene.

    Albanese hinted that Souths might win the premiership, before we go to the polls.

  84. Scaper, Labor is taking seven thousand more than the Opposition from the region. The Opposition is promising to cut by seven thousand.

    There is a strong hint, that the Heuston recommendation of twenty seven thousand will occur,

    Morrison, turn back the boats and take seven thousand less.

  85. scaper still runs, the little chicken man, firing off false passing shots without addressing the issue, while totally misrepresenting what has been said on this thread. gormless.

  86. Summo, we have many illegals in this country, that are being picked up on a regular basis and taken to Villawood. I can remember a time, when many in the building industry, in the city, were illegals, from Liverpool in England.

    Yes, some might come, but more likely by plane and overstaying visas. Most will be picked up. Not easy living as an illegal. One sometimes gets sick, to begin with.

    I suspect most will not want to end up in PNG, and will not get on the boats. If this fails, at least PNG will benefited by having the skills they bring with them.

    If this does not work, nothing will.

  87. Mostly, these people want to get to a place, where they can resume their working and professional lives, and have their kids educated. That will happen in PNG, but not where they are now. Might be tempting for some.

  88. Yes scaper, until something better comes along. The scheme has more positives that negatives. Would rather have something along the lines of what occurred in the Vietnam days. That, under the present toxic political climate cannot happen.

  89. Significant of the caucus meeting being held in Balmain, has just got through to the media. Wonder if someone had to tell them.

    Once again reporting part answers. Albanese is reported as saying, will be held sometime in the future. Seem to remember him going on to say something along the line, that maybe Souths winning of the premiership might be over. That does not fit in with an imminent announcement.

  90. I do not believe a election date has even been considered yet. Still “tees” to be crossed and “eyes” to be dotted.

    Labor will only get one chance to get it right. It is going to be about who makes the first misstep. Up to not, Abbott is not doing too well.

    Out defending tax rorts is not a good start. Adding, that keeping records for three months out of five years, is the type of red tape they are going to abolish.

  91. scaper, they do have education in PNG. Maybe not world class. The parents will at least have a choice. At this time, they are not allow to work. Not allow to educate their kids.

    What PNG gets out of the move, is badly needed money to upgrade their infrastructure. That cannot be a bad thing. They might even get people with badly needed skills, to take the country forwarded.

  92. So, can I put you on the record as supporting the policy and Rudd?

    You could try reading the comments instead of trying to fabricate your own reality.

    You could even come out from under your rock and form an opinion and posit a proposal as to what you would prefer.

    Or stick to exhibiting the Bravery Of Being Out Of Range

  93. I am amazed, when people say it is about politics. Only it seems when it comes to Labor though.

    Of course it is about politics. Why, in a political system would it be about anything else.

    At the end of the day, one can only do what is politically feasible.

    Yes, it is politics we are talking about.

    Are you saying Abbott’s daily stunts and three word slogans are not about politics. That what Abbott proposes, comes from the goodness of his heart, gas nothing to do with politics.

    Yes, back in the distant past, this problem was not seen as politics, but was dealt with in a bipartisan manner. Today, thanks to toxic politics we live under, this is no longer possible.

    Yes, being a PM is about politics. Yes, the PM leads the party he belongs to. The same is true for the Leader of the Opposition.

    No, I do not like the way we deal with asylum seekers. Maybe those who are complaining, can tell us, how they would do it better.

  94. All we can do, is compare what Rudd is saying, with what Abbott says.

    So Abbott is doing well, out fighting for a tax rort to be returned.

  95. If we do as Milne says, reject Rudd;’s scheme, that means we have to accept Abbott’s.

    Not a good choice to me.

    Does it also mean, we have to accept that the boats should be allowed to keep coming.

    What about those in camps for over a decade in our region. Should they be allowed to rot, with no future.

  96. PNG PM says asylum policy not costed. That seems to explain Rudd’s revenue neutral statement…he’s made it all up and hasn’t got a clue how much it will cost. Another big con.

    HAHAHAHAHAH!

  97. scaper..you are right on the money..bumbling buffoon Rudd. He dreams up policies like Clive dreams up tricks to play on the media.

  98. A snapshot of voting intentions -> July 19-21
    http://tinyurl.com/mnth5vh

    The ALP 52.5% would still win election ahead of the L-NP 47.5% on a two-party preferred basis, with preferences of minor party voters allocated based on how electors surveyed say they will vote, rather than how preferences flowed at the last election…

  99. Fed up and,

    Of course it is about politics. Why, in a political system would it be about anything else.

    At the end of the day, one can only do what is politically feasible.

    Which is why I think you understand more than many why certain decisions have to be made. It’s not that it cannot be done better, but it’s about what is able to be achieved working within the confines of a particular system – those who believe that they can do better might like to try their hands (or is that feet?) of walking on water..

  100. Ah, you mean Question Time since Abbott became LOTO

    I thought he meant his own posting style 😉

  101. I suppose that I should post a serious response on this issue..we’ve been debating this for years now and no one, neither politician nor blogger nor journalist has been able to come up with a solution that would fulfil the criteria of:

    1. a timely processing of genuine refugees
    2. a deterrent to people smuggling

    But wait..what other criteria are there? Surely it couldn’t be a matter of xenophobia where “these people” aren’t wanted at all? Surely it couldn’t be just a media beat up…

  102. I’d add a third to that Min:
    3. Consider the people languishing in camps or other refugee accommodation around the world, but especially, but not exclusively, in Indonesia & Malaysia. There are also places like Somalia to consider…

  103. Abbott is focus on boats and nothing else. In fact, the boats are only a small part of the problem.

    We have Abbott saying they will take 7000 less asylum seekers, while Labor is increasing the number by 7000. That is a 14.000 difference.

    Does one really believe that the push factor can be ignored, that those tens of thousands, stranded in our near neighbour countries for over a decade, are just going to sit, and do nothing.

    If we had taken more over the last few years, the boats might not be on the high seas.

    The answer is not, taking all that reach here, or by turning boats back.

    Yes, Abbott, it is time for some rethinking.

    Running a election on the same campaign as the 2010, is just pure laziness. It is a different world today. We are now in a the Asian century, and a global; economy..

    Yes, Mr. Abbott. it is entirely a brand new ball game.

    You have sixteen sitting on that shadow front bench, that goes back even further. Back to pre 2007 and the Howard government. Some were getting long in the tooth even then. Do we really want a rebirth of the Howard government, one that we threw out.

  104. Looks like Abbott has a new strategy. Surround himself with oldies, and get them to ask the questions. Did not quite work today. A little messy.

  105. It may be too early too comment given ever changing information but it would appear the asylum seekers were rescued by local fishermen, and that Indonesian maritime authorities became aware of the situation, but that ASMA’s offer of assistance as yet not taken. The tragedy continues as desperate people seek better lives. Manus and detention a debacle. Some kind of regional response seems urgently needed. Who is going to lead the charge?

  106. Pingback: Me, the road and I @ Wollongong Art Gallery–plus | Neil's Commonplace Book

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