An email to Scott Morrison

Scott Morrison MP, Federal Member for Cook

Scott Morrison MP, Federal Member for Cook (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Yesterday, AIMN reader Mark McCallum sent this email to Scott Morrison, which he has shared with us.

Dear Mr Morrison,

I have a question of you in your capacity as Shadow Minister for Immigration.

Part of your policy in regard to people claiming to be asylum seekers approaching Austalia by boat from the general direction of Indonesia, is to “turn the boats around where safe to do so”, I have been trying to envisage how this might be done, and have imagined being present at the discovery of one of the many over-loaded boats off Christmas Island.

As I think it highly unlikely you would suggest that the boat be simply taken in tow with all remaining on board, I presume the occupants would have to be off-loaded on to a suitable vessel, probably an Australian naval ship, and the empty boat tied to said ship for towing. Could you please suggest what the actual procedure might then be upon reaching Indonesian territorial waters? As the boat would have no official details of actually having left from Indonesia, and the authorities having clearly stated that they would not accept this type of vessel in to their country, what would you now do with these people and their boat?

I consider this to be one of many vital pieces of information I need to assess in trying to decide whether to vote for your party in the upcoming election.

I think that’s a fairly straightforward request. I wonder if the reply too will be straightforward. Mark will keep us posted on that.

299 comments on “An email to Scott Morrison

  1. I have emailed Morrison, Abbott, Pyne and others in the opposition with absolutely no reply. Not even a standard reply to say the email had been received. At least when I contact the PM or other Labor MP’s or the Independents I receive a reply.

  2. Michael. You tools on the left should just leave this issue to people who have the balls to resolve the problem. You tools on the left should just die of embarrassment that you support Swan Gillard and the rest of the fairies in the garden who set up the “policy” that results in 3,000 illegal arrivals a month, 40,000 since 2008 and probably not much short of 40,000 this year alone.
    Get out of the way go an sip your lattes and continue being passengers of the taxpayer.
    You and all the tools on the left stuffed up and have cost the country the equivalent of a Gonski (whatever the fuck that is, it changes daily) and and NDIS (whatever the fuck that is, it changes daily and like Gonski is unfunded)
    You people are a sad joke in our society. You should be eternally grateful we on the right bother to feed you. During the Culturasl Revolution in China you and the other left tools would have been sent into the fields to dig potatoes to get your heads straight.

  3. Tweed……I run a small business, I employ people, I understand how to make a profit in a competitive environment. I also care about my country and the people who live in it. What do you do besides being a complete arsehole?

  4. Tweed, you have shown yourself to be a typical right wing loudmouth. no sensible argument, just insults. i think you need to re-assess what tool means. in fact, i have a sneaking suspicion that if you looked it up in a dictionary you’d find a picture of your ignorant pig face staring back at you. your “facts” on funding are bullshit, as is your claim that the country’s stuffed. just about every nation on earth would kill to be as “stuffed” as we are. you’re an imbecile troll. get back under your bridge, waylaying unsuspecting billygoats gruff you idiot

  5. The people who are responsible for more than 1,000 people drowning at sea have no right to comment. I am talking about the people who voted for Rudd in 2007.

    Furthermore thousands of refugees in camps who we used to bring here can no longer come because only people with $$$$$10,000 can get in. How immoral. Our refugee places are being sold to the highest bidder.

  6. Michael : their problem is they have no answer. This guy T weed or is it Twit is a full blooded LNP Troll . For answers all
    they have is filth like the menu their leaders indulge in. Watch Abbott when asked a question of importance he starts to shake & then runs away.Can you imagine him if he had to go overseas as Australian P.M. He would finish in the intertainment halls as star attraction.

  7. I too saw nothing wrong with the email to Morrison. The writer wanted a simple answer to a simple policy question. Tweed responded in a manner expected of Morrison. Extraordinary.

  8. I noticed the menu story has also went around the globe, as did that speech last October.

    Winder how this makes Abbott look overseas.

  9. Good question Mark, very well written.
    but uh no taking on board, once on board an Australian ship they are to all intensive purposes on Australian soil so that cant happen. Then of course offloading onto a boat again becomes a nasty incident. Once at Indonesian waters they either break international or UN human rights provisions for refugees seeking asylum.
    Morrison wont answer because he cant, and if he does it will be vague non committal garbage that says nothing.
    Fact is they cant stop boats, they cant tow them back as they will scuttle as soon as they try as began to happen under Howard.
    No legislation is scarier than what these people are fleeing so its a stupid claim for either party to make.

    Fact is we need to deal with refugees as best we can, if its not perfect its still better than trying to return them to harm or starvation.

  10. Anyone with the handle ‘tweed’ deserves to be ignored for the self-congratulating Menziete dinosaur that they so obviously are. Get relevant, this is about human rights. This is not a perfect solution. But there actually ARE several perfect solutions, which have been considered and then thrown overboard by this and previous governments. The nicest thing the Rudd government could have done for the Australian tax payer they did – and that was to close down the operations at Nauru. It costs the Australian government MUCH more than the facility on Christmas Island does to maintain, because we are propping up the entire local economy of the island, maintaining it’s infrastructure, etc. Did you know that the bank there closed when the centre was shut down? That the local infrastructure was insufficient to maintain the presence of a bank on the island? That caused major economic hardship for locals, people’s savings became inaccessible. And re-opening the centre on Nauru has cost us 100s of millions of dollars. The amount of money spent on maintaining off-shore processing is utterly ludicruous, and yet is being continued PURELY due to ignorant bigots being fed coalition tabliod xenophobia and misinformation by the spoonful. So don’t anyone tell me that the cost of refugees coming here outweighs the cost of maintaining this unsustainable system of processing, which might I add was a Howard government initiative in the first place.

  11. The really scary thing about ‘ the boat people’ are the numbers of them coming here…. especially compared to other nations 🙄 I mean,.. some countries are only taking in a paultry couple of hundred……thousand…..per ….week/day 😯 …… Australia is attracting so many lately… over the years it must be in the tens of thousands by now, I mean WTF do they think they will find here….. a better life or something 😯 …… and what about thems ‘plane people’… I mean 94% of asylum seekers and ‘ illegals’ are coming to this country by plane, but, hey, thats nothing compared to the number of people seeking sanctuary from death and depravation of their basic human rights that ‘throw all to the wind’ to come here by boat…. 6 bloody %… 🙄 … yup, bloody better turn thems back,… otherwise they may come here and open up a restaurant.. 😯 … or earn enough money to buy a house and contribute to the economy… like them bloody Veitnamese before them and those bloody ten pound-ers…….. bloody boat people………………… now we know how the Aborigines must of felt…. 😉

  12. wrb 330. I haven’t heard such defeatist BS since….. the last Labor leftie I made the mistake of listening to. Thank Christ we will have a government that is going to ahhhh Protect our Borders? What a novel idea. Countries have been protecting their borders since before Christ grew a beard but it seems the lefties just haven’t got a handle on the concept. Go back and read Howard/Ruddock 101.

  13. wrb330, better still, have a read of Dark Victory; a revealing look at how Howard manipulated the Tampa issue to win an election. 😉

    Tweed, you definitely need to read it. 🙄

  14. …and Michael. One would think Labor would have twigged that dicking with Border Protection is a messy political business. As you say didn’t someone at Labor HQ ring the alarm bell when the dickhead lefties decided to dismantle Howard’s Solution? Wouldn’t someone at Labor HQ say ….guys don’t do it… we are handing the Libs another Gift Wrapped Tampa. Didn’t we learn anything when Howard out manoeuvred us last time over Tampa. You know Michael. I do believe the next generation of Labor lefties, in say 15 years time will make the same call AGAIN. Dumb!!

  15. People like Tweed are why I will never vote Liberal. Their supporters always seem to be belligerent borderline psychotics.

  16. The great crime is that refugees in camps can no longer get into Australia. Apparently all the places are going to asylum seekers with $$$$10,000.

    The nicest thing the Rudd government could have done for the Australian tax payer they did – and that was to close down the operations at Nauru. ”

    We are now spending $1B/year more then when Howard was in power. Locked up more people than Howard. Have lots of children locked up to.

    The whole thing is a disaster. And did you hear what the Foreign Minister Bob Carr called the people coming by boat?? On Meet The Press on Channel 10 he called them economic immigrants. He did not called them refugees

  17. So with more and more boats arriving, and more people drowning at sea let’s look at what Julia’s current priorities are . . . . the Women of Gillard, Menu-Gate, and some horse shit about blue ties . . . . well if that doesn’t “smash the people smuggler’s model” surely nothing will. The Liberal solution may not be entirely clear, but at least they haven’t given up completely !!

  18. It’s called walking and chewing gum at the same time Erin. Running a Government means dealing with multiple issues. A hard concept for some to grasp, it is true.

    Mind you, it appears that the oppositions solution is to prevent Labor from implementing it’s preferred policy, making false allegations denigrating an individual in Parliament, and bravely not raising issues of turning boats back with the country who has very publicly said that will not be happening.

    ‘not entirely clear’ is surely the understatement of the day so far.

  19. Mind you, it appears that the oppositions solution is to prevent Labor from implementing it’s preferred policy,”

    I thought Labors so-called Malaysian solution was rendered invalid by the High Court. Anyway even if it wasn’t, it is immoral. Dragging women and children into an aeroplane and then posting the screaming refugees on Youtube is totally immoral.

    http://www.news.com.au/national-news/youtube-sends-the-message-overseas-about-asylum-seekers-in-australia/story-e6frfkvr-1226106326904

    VIDEO of asylum seekers being loaded on to flights to Malaysia will be posted on YouTube and Facebook to scare off other refugees from coming to Australia illegally in boats.”

  20. Tony Abbott wants to turn northern Australia into a food producing factory with dams and irrigation – sounds like a perfect place for China, Indonesia, Pakistan, India and a pile of other starving countries to invade – Australia might just halve it’s size under Abbott – Boats will be the least of our problems!
    TWEED – You are an idiot – just realise that – Australians deserve to see the real policies from the LNP – Queenslanders have learnt the hard way that the LNP will find any excuse to change their promises and send their economy into a downward spiral!

  21. Maybe an understatment, but what is 100% crystal clear is that the problems we have right now are of Rudd and Gillard’s making. And yes running a government does mean dealing with multiple issues. It also means prioritising the most important ones. And it would appear that Julia puts grandstanding about misogyny at the top of her to do list and border protection well below that.

  22. The lack of basic intellectual depth in the Liberal trolls posting here is breathtaking. Best they are pitied, bloody good for a laugh though

  23. Anyway even if it wasn’t, it is immoral.

    As immoral as turning back people on boats in the middle of the ocean ❓

    Working in conjunction with neighbouring countries in a regional solution is now ‘immoral’ ROFL

  24. TWEED and others conveniently leave out the push factors involved. If you think back to Howard’s time we really just had the Iraq war, and Afghanistan was just getting fired up. Since then we have had Sri Lanka, Iraq continued, Afghanistan magnified, the Arab Spring, Plus the GFC which has vastly reduced the number of countries that had any capability to accept refugees and let’s not even try to fathom the magnitude of the human crisis on the African continent.
    Scott Morrison in particular has played to the baser instincts of humanity which is racism pure and simple. With my Thai life partner I see the undercurrent of racism every day. It’s never really obvious but after 12 years in a “mixed race” and also same-sex relationship you get finely attuned to it folks. The saddest part of it all to me is that Gillard and Co have found themselves pushed into a nasty corner where they feel compelled to “lock up those wogs” (my name for it) because they lost the public argument due to the slant taken by Abbott, Morrison and Bernardi and helped in no small way by Murdoch and the MSM.
    Another sad joke about this country is that you go to any restaurant or Market Food Hall and you sit and watch Aussies chowing down on their Falafel s, Pizzas, Pork Rolls etc. etc. and don’t give a moments thought to the fact that they are eating food brought here by immigrants who worked their arses off to open their own business, buy their own house, educate their kids well and to grow this wonderful country. The likes of TWEED really are sad lonely little people and my opinion has always been that they are afraid of foreigners because they work harder than so-called “laid-back” White Aussies.

  25. The Pacific Solution didn’t stop the boats at all!

    It coincided with a global reduction in people seeking asylum, and the redefinition of how the statistics were worked out:

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/10/19/push-vs-pull-asylum-seeker-numbers-and-statistics/

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3886792.html

    “Rigged statistics
    But the official statistics are rigged. They don’t record the number of boats, or the number of asylum seekers on them, that were intercepted, towed back, turned around or foundered. Operation Relex, a naval interdiction program to intercept and/or turn asylum boats around, began on September 3, 2001.”

    These boats weren’t counted, nor were the refugees in them:

    “In 2002, at least another four boats, SIEV 5, 7, 11 and 12 were returned to Indonesia while three boats (SIEV 4, 6 and 10) sank. In 2003, SIEV 14 attempted to make the voyage to Australia but was towed back, while a boat of 53 Vietnamese asylum seekers made it to the mainland at Darwin.”

    Those boats still came, we just ignored out international obligation to help them.

    So no, Howard and his racist xenophobic policy didn’t “Stop the boats”…

  26. Working in conjunction with neighbouring countries in a regional solution is now ‘immorall”

    Yes, Labors Malaysian solution is immoral. And we had a solution until you lot dismantled Howards policies. Rudd was warned what would happen. And everybody who voted for Rudd in 2007 is responsible. I feel for the refugees who cannot come because they do not have $$$$10,000. Do you people care about refugees in camps??

    And Bob Carr does not call them asylum seekers any more. Interview with Bob Carr

    http://www.news.com.au/meet-the-press

    Let’s analyse what’s going on here, and that is we’ve got a people smuggling racket that’s entrenched. And people are coming here, not now as a result of persecution, but because they’re economic refugees who’ve have paid money to people smugglers. There’s been a spike in people coming from Iran, for example – none of them are claiming persecution. It’s the economic pressure of the sanctions in Iran, and the squeeze on living standards. People in these circumstances think if we give $10,000 to a people smuggler in a port in Indonesia, he will get us into Australian waters

  27. And we had a solution until you lot dismantled Howards policies.

    Firstly, it didn’t work, as pointed out above. Secondly, it also was ‘immoral’

  28. Tom, how could ignoring vulnerable people that we helped to displace when we agreed to somehow be immoral? …

    Neil if they weren’t claiming some sort of persecution they would be found to not be genuine (90% of asylum seekers by boat are) and they would not be granted asylum. Nice quote, but empty of fact.

  29. Firstly, it didn’t work,

    It did work. We only had 4 boat people in detention in 2007 and i guess that was because they were not given a security clearance. And Howard policies were more moral than the Malaysian solution. And they worked. There are always about 20 million refugees seeking asylum. Push factors are not an issue. It is what you want to believe to sooth your conscience.

    Lance

    Take up your points with Bob Carr.

  30. wow ! tweed perhaps we the non indigenous of the population of australia should all go back to where our ancestors came from, since we must all be illegals . right, i my self am not a pure breed. i am a mixture of races, so i dont know where that leaves me. my mother arrived in australia in 1947 alone from india, you see she was not full indian, her father was english. and at that time anyone not of pure blood had to leave. my grandfather was born in sydney in the 1890s. his father and grandfather i have no record of birth but they are of english heritage. so i am decended from boat people. and according to your principles boat people do not belong in australia. so i suppose i should just disappear into space. to keep you and your kind happy. you on the other hand should also leave, and go back to where you come from. which in your case would be deep within your colostomy bag !

  31. Neil,

    I’m not claiming Labor’s policies are better – they’re horrible and a more humane approach is required. Let’s be straight here – I’m not pro-Labor policy on this I’m anti-australia’s policy on this. Pre and post Gillard.

    The boats still came thereby the mantra of we were able to “Stop the boats” is clearly wrong. Boats still came – documented that they came as X amount were dragged back. Documented that they came as X amount sank. You are wrong.

    Did we have less people in detention and less people able to apply for asylum? Sure did – because we ignored out international and moral obligation to allow them to apply; how disgusting that we have displaced people then ignore their civilian cries for help.

    If the solution to have less people apply is to do it in that manner I want no part in it and neither should this country; we are better than that.

    Just because we took the immoral stance of ignoring the international treaty and dragging them back to Indonesia doesn’t mean that they stopped coming.

    Fact is, less came to Australia over a period of time over that decade, but also a lot less came globally (as I have detailed, with links to FACTS, a notion not many Libs seem to be capable of). It is internationally recognized that this is because of major defeats in 2001 of the Taliban in Afghanistan. We then saw a resurgence in 2007 after more troops were sent into Afghanistan and we helped (it’s important to recognize that we have helped to displace a lot of these people) stirred the pot again. That is a pure illustration of the Push factor. Disagree until your blue in the face, it is in opposition to the facts.

    Like many Liberal politicians, your words are merely empty rhetoric. Want to debate like an adult, bring some evidence and fact with you.

  32. i remember being called a wog, not to my face, by my future brother in law. i was born in sydney in 1955, my father born in sydney in 1920, my grandfather born in sydney in the 1890s. my mother born in india in 1927, british india at the time, her father a british soldier. i was called a wog, by the son of dutch immigrants ! my skin tans easily and my eyes are brown. so that makes me a wog ! my grandfather went to the first world war and was shot in the leg by a 303 rifle, he survived. my uncle the youngest of 3 sons put his age up to fight in the 2nd world war, and became a prisoner of war in changi ! my brother went to vietnam, and killed people he never knew ! so all that makes me a wog ! and i wear that statement with pride ! but racist halfwits make me angry. and all you lnp trolls, you do not belong in this wonderful country. this world is just a melting pot of different cultures. and this country has plenty of space for so many more needy people. maybe we should set aside a piece of australia. just for racists. because racists refuse to assimilate !!!

  33. Tony Abbot’s “secret” weapon is Julie Bishop, as simple as that . . when in government they ask her to stand naked and without make-up at the bow of one of our Navy vessels and the very moment the unfortunate “illegal ” emigrants see her, they will post-haste turn around never to come back . . . they will even miss Indonesia . . .

  34. In another blog a long time ago I asked Neil how Howard’s policy stopped the influx of refugees world wide. Something he hasn’t answered to this day.

    Then there’s the fact that this government’s current terrible policy is the Howard policy made worse, all except for the turning back of the boats, that began failing under Howard and as pointed out from senior Indonesian diplomats, the head of the Australian Navy to a senior Liberal minister, will fail under Abbott.

    I would like any of the right wing supporters to point out where the current policy is different to the Coalition’s.

    Offshore detention: Nauru and Manus, but far worse conditions than in Howard’s time.
    Children detention: More and harsher than Howard’s time.
    Christmas Island detention: Made worse and harsher than in Howard’s time.
    TPV: Bridging visas harsher and more draconian than TPVs.

    In every area except in trying to turn back boats, which is universally agreed, even by some inside the Liberals, cannot work, this government’s current policy is Howard’s policy taken to the next extreme.

    And it’s failing.

    My final challenge, which is never taken up, is if Abbott does get into power and the boats keep coming under his reign, will the same right wingers here be demanding that Abbott and Morrison immediately stand down?

    Of course they won’t. They will get out their spin the wheel excuse-o-meter with blame Labor being the biggest section on it, furiously spin it for all its worth and come out with lame excuse after lame excuse for the failure of Abbott and his policies.

  35. With both the Navy and Indonesia saying that they won’t participate in the practice of turning back the boats, the Noalition owes us an explanation as to how they plan to achieve it.

    Thus far, all they have been able to say is “we’ve done it once before so we can do it again”. Funnily enough there is little to no media scrutiny on this (like everything else from the Liberals…)? One of the three major pinnacles of the Liberal election campaign with a gaping hole in it and they won’t comment? This is beyond ridiculous.

    You are right. It won’t matter how they fail, they will find some way of blaming the previous government and hypnotizing the dumb majority of voters into thinking its some form of success…

  36. …and Steven was there a point to your comments? Mate we are all immigrants at one stage or another. What I and most normal people object to is UNCONTROLLED arrivals into our country. Since the nodddys Rudd and Gillard have been on watch we have had 40,000 people come by boats bypassing all our laws. How do you think the immigrants out west think when they know how much they had to do to come here legitimately. You have put forward silly comments Steven. It is all about controlling the manner in which people settle in Australia. It is a basic duty of government and it has been subcontracted to people smugglers. Oh and Seven my wife is an immigrant so don’t talk shit to me about about racism.

  37. Tweed,

    If you and most ‘normal’ people object to the flow of asylum seekers maybe next time our government wants to join in a war you will all protest right?

    Do you even realise that 10 times more asylum seekers arrive by plane? Would you feel more comfortable if this is how they arrived? As this is how the majority arrive.

    The only thing illegal or illegitimate about them is their method of arrival – there is nothing illegal about claiming asylum and there are rightfully no penalty’s for doing so.

    These people come this way as it’s the only way they have found to do so – do you not think that they would fly if not given half the chance like most others? Or do you think they just jump on a leaky boat because they prefer being so close to death?

    You cannot put asylum seekers fleeing persecution in the same boat as regular immigrants as they are not immigrants – they are asylum seekers. This distinction is noted both in law and various treaties and conventions.

    To top it off, having married an immigrant doesn’t mean that you aren’t coming off as a xenophobic bigot. It does not make you exempt.

    Lance

  38. lol. Don’t talk shit to me about racism as I engage in it.

    How are the boats coming UNCONTROLLED, when they are intercepted and every person on board put in detention, which is a CONTROL, until the are medically checked and vetted where over 90% are found to be genuine and through CONTROLS and OVERSIGHT are allowed in?

    More illegals fly in UNCONTROLLED after they get through the airport and are in society now UNCONTROLLED.

    How do they BYPASS our laws? That’s an interesting one as the moment they are taken into custody an immigration officer and usually someone from the AFP or appointed Defence representative of the government read the refugees their rights and restrictions thus putting them UNDER our laws. From that moment on they come UNDER Australian law until they are either accepted and will be UNDER Australian law for as long as they remain in this country or they are deported, when they will come UNDER some other country’s laws.

  39. Oh shit, I just worked out how the are bypassing our laws. They are being sent to Manus and Nauru and Australian islands excised from the Australian immigration zone thus outside Australian law.

    I remember when Morrison proposed reopening Nauru that Nauru agreed on the condition the asylum seekers came under their laws.

    Shit just realised that Morrison proposed reopening Nauru, a Howard era policy, and this Labor government has done that. But I thought this government threw out Howard’s asylum seeker policy so how can they have reopened Nauru, or is it the opposition by sheer force of will who got it opened?

    And if it is the opposition who got it opened then I have news for them, it’s failing.

  40. With both the Navy and Indonesia saying that they won’t participate in the practice of turning back the boat

    In Australia the military is under civilian control. They have to obey or mutiny. As for Indonesia they said that last time but Howard did it anyway.

    “Do you even realise that 10 times more asylum seekers arrive by plane?

    Another urban myth that never dies. I doubt many people fly in and claim asylum at Mascot Airport. Most of these plane people are students who fly in on a student visa to get a degree and like it here so much they claim asylum because they do not want to go home. Chinese students are notorious for this. That is why the success rate for asylum seekers who fly in is so low. The are lying.

  41. Möbius Ecko – not just that mate – both sides of the house just excised, wait for it, the Australian Mainland from the immigration zone…

    Labor reopened Nauru / Manus post-malaysian deal failure.

  42. Interesting rant Steven Subhash James. It’s terrible that during this early period in your early life you were called a ‘wog’ . . . but do you think the atmosphere at the time might have been a legacy of Labor’s White Australia Policy ?

  43. But Tom, they only had unsubstantiated claims to base their vicious attack on – how were they to know any better? ……

  44. Tweed, maybe, instead of criticizing all that is said here, you can explain what asylum seekers, have to do with border protection.

    Will ignore your usual response, when one asks you a question, “you are stupid” or some like comment..

    Are you saying, we are in danger of being invaded?
    ]
    If so, by whom?

    An answer, with some facts would be lovely.

  45. And again you won’t hear an apology or them admitting they got it wrong in jumping in early before the facts were known. They will as they always do turn it into another blame the government as they move onto the next unsubstantiated and baseless attack.

  46. “both sides of the house just excised, wait for it, the Australian Mainland from the immigration zone…

    Apparently this is something Howard wanted to do but failed due to a revolt from his own party. But the Gillard govt succeeded.

    It is just further proof for me that ALP supporters support a team not principle. If a Coalition govt had authored the bill the ALP would have called it mean and nasty.

    More illegals fly in UNCONTROLLED after they get through the airport and are in society now UNCONTROLLED.

    This is BS. People who fly in have a visa (student, business, 457, holiday etc). You have to otherwise you would be put on the first plane to leave Australia or put into detention. They usually apply for asylum while living here on a valid visa. During the Sydney Olympics we had some athletes apply for asylum. But they were legally here on a visa.

    Hopefully one day this urban myth will die.

  47. If a Coalition govt had authored the bill the ALP would have called it mean and nasty.

    It is mean and nasty

    I’d go as far as to say it is immoral.

    Far more immoral than trying to work with a neighbouring country on a regional solution. But the opposition won’t have a bar of that.

    Of course, Labor should be condemned as much as them for this particular policy.

  48. Yes, Neil, agree one hundred percent, what we are doing to the asylum seekers is a disgrace.

    The question I ask, what do you believe the PM can do, to make things better, without the support of the Greens and Opposition.

    Let us in on the secret, I am sure the PM would love to know.

  49. The only choice the PM has, is to go all the Greens way. The PM has put in place, a harsher Pacific Solution, it does not work.

    Temporary visa is actually softer than the bridging visas, they are all on now. No assessment seem to be occurring.

    Turning boats back is a fantasy of Morrison and Abbott, Even they cannot explain how it can be done.

    Have heard that Indonesia might go along with Abbott, but the price for doing so, Indonesia will demand a high price.

    What we have now, is hundreds being returned to Sri Lanka by plane. They are still coming, knowing that when they are returned, the Sri Lankan government will treat them harshly.

  50. Neil, legislation is often made invalid by the court. The normal course of action is for the government to put forwarded new legislation, , that fixes the errors the High Court found, New legislation, that meets the needs of the Constitution.

    To do this, the PM needs at this time, the support from either the Greens or the Opposition.

    This is what the fight is about.

    Does that explain things.

    It is what all governments do, in similar circumstances.

    Another that should take time, to read that very small volume, called the Constitution. Very few pages, and not hard to understand.

  51. Erin, what problems are you talking about.

    One of the best economies in the world.

    Wonderful policies for the future.

    Many achievements and reforms. Many that government’s have been attempting to get through for decades.

    Investments in our infrastructure and people, to ensure we become leaders in the Asian century, not the poor white trash of Asia,.

    If this amounts to problems, lets have more.

    I know some see all above as speaking points, but they also happen to be facts, inconvenient facts for many.

  52. Erin, although you personally might not like Ms. Gillard for no doubt profound reasons. 🙄 the PM has the support of caucus and does not need to resign just because Abbott and cronies demand it. Gosh, the lady won’t do as the alpha-male says she should do…

  53. Fed up, see above..I think that it’s misogyny writ large..that the lady won’t obey instructions from *superiors*, aka those men who feel threatened by women in positions of authority. Fortunately I’ve come across only a few men in my life time who were like this, my ex being one of them. 😉

  54. Just poped in to say Hi. i have had the misfortune to meet this biligerent, hypocritical bully boy. I can assure you behind all that faux Christian bullshit, he is a complete bogon knob job. Dumb as a box of hammers too, argumentative, always right, dont listen, broken record with one opinion on everything. I see all the usual suspects are piping in with their rabid zombie mentality…this is a sad time in Australian politics…Anyways as always migs, love your work mate…I’m back to the art world at the moment, fuck politics, I have figured out after near death, that I am too talented and intellectually astute to be waisting brain cells on the likes of Tweed and NOS…I have thrown my grenade and spent my two bob, now if you will excuse me its back to my film and the contemplation of George fucking Bandis as minister for the arts… 😦

  55. Then Neil, according to your reasoning, we have no moral option, but to let all in. That does indeed makes things easier.

    Do not know how one will get away with that politically

    Neil, that is another secret you can let the PM in on,

  56. It is immaterial, this far down the track, whether Howard stopped the boats or not,

    What is important. all of his policies are back in place, in a harsher form. The boats are still coming.

    There is little more that Abbott can do, to change the situation.

    In fact his intention of cutting the number we take from the region by seven thousand, will add to the problem.

  57. Neil,

    Personally I have not backed the Labor policy here it is quite the opposite. Nor can I see any others doing so. What we are critiquing is the “stop the boats” slogan/mantra/campaign policy that the Liberals are championing.

    “It is just further proof for me that ALP supporters support a team not principle.”

    – you are just ignoring the fact (seems to be a trend) that everyone here is against both policies so that you can justify saying this.

    “This is BS. People who fly in have a visa (student, business, 457, holiday etc). You have to otherwise you would be put on the first plane to leave Australia or put into detention. They usually apply for asylum while living here on a valid visa. During the Sydney Olympics we had some athletes apply for asylum. But they were legally here on a visa.”

    There are provisions within the Refugee Convention (that this country has signed) SPECIFICALLY to support these most vulnerable of people.

    Based on information available from aph.gov.au which is the Australian Parliamentary Website:

    “Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation. Australian and international law make these allowances because it is not always safe or practicable for asylum seekers to obtain travel documents or travel through authorised channels. Refugees are, by definition, persons fleeing persecution and in most cases are being persecuted by their own government. It is often too dangerous for refugees to apply for a passport or exit visa or approach an Australian Embassy for a visa, as such actions could put their lives, and the lives of their families, at risk. Refugees may also be forced to flee with little notice due to rapidly deteriorating situations and do not have time to apply for travel documents or arrange travel through authorised channels. Permitting asylum seekers to entry a country without travel documents is similar to allowing ambulance drivers to exceed the speed limit in an emergency – the action would be ordinarily be considered illegal, but the circumstances warrant an exception.”
    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AsylumFacts#_Toc348096470

    linked from here:
    http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/myth-long.php

    So whether YOU like it or not, it is a completely valid and legal way to apply for asylum to be onshore without a valid visa.

    What I can’t get my head around is that the most vulnerable of all these people are the ones that will be in this predicament (not able to apply for a visa see quote above) – yet they are the ones that you want to deny safety the most.

  58. Tom, so the “modest dip” in employment was the end result of the hysteria by the media surrounding a possible increase in the jobless numbers…why am I not surprised…not the modest dip, the hysteria.

  59. so the “modest dip” in employment

    unemployment Min, just to be pedantic 😉

    All of the ‘economists’ soothsayed it going up. Treasury actually got it spot on.

  60. Interesting info:

    Average unemployment rate under the Howard Government was 6.4%;

    Average unemployment rate under the Rudd and Gillard Governments is 5.0%.

  61. “There are provisions within the Refugee Convention (that this country has signed) SPECIFICALLY to support these most vulnerable of people.

    I am not sure what you are raving on about. I was commenting on this BS

    More illegals fly in UNCONTROLLED after they get through the airport and are in society now UNCONTROLLED.”

    If you fly into Sydney airport without a valid visa you will either be put on the first plane out of Australia or put into detention while your case is heard. You are not allowed to run around uncontrolled.

    Furthermore I have met these alleged asylum seekers who fly in. Most are students getting a University degree. They like it so much here they try and get permanent residency. If that fails they claim asylum. I think the success rate for alleged asylum seekers who fly in is about 20%. It is so low because most are lying and i suspect the 20% who are successful are also lying.

    Anyway the most vulnerable are the people in camps without $$$10,000 to pay a smuggler. Any refugee with $10,000 in Indonesia is doing O.K.

    These are the people you are denying entry. People in refugee camps. These are the people we used to take until Rudd got in.

  62. Sorry Neil, I should have said, it is not working now.

    Many say it did not work then either., That does not interest me. or mean anything at this time, except to ask, if it was working, why did Howard committed hundreds of million dollars to build the facilities on Christmas Island.

    I believe that Rudd did believe the boats had stopped, as he foolishly cut back on what Howard allocated for Christmas Island. Sadly he was mistaken. Then Rudd was only keeping an election promised, that was demanded by the majority of people.

    Abbott keeps saying we did it then we will do it again. How can he say that, when the policy is back in place, and is NOT working.

    Neil, this is reality.

  63. Morrison now on with more lies. The one from yesterday, where the heath cost are being borne by the states.

    The health minister, yesterday proved this one to be another lie.

    Rest, rubbish.

    ABC24

  64. No mention from Morrison,. why Gillard’s harsher policy is not working.
    Talking about cost.

  65. The people who fly in are a majority in comparison to those who arrive by boat. In comparison, to quote your statistic of 20% success rate, those who arrive by boat have a success rate of 90%.

    So to review:
    * More people arrive by air
    * Only 20% of them are granted asylum
    * Less people arrive by boat
    * 90% of them are granted asylum

    So how is it that the people who are arriving by boat are the problem?

    I do agree that it is an injustice that the Howard government joined the onshore and offshore quotas to perpetuate the myth of a queue – it wasn’t always so. It’s equally repugnant that this government hasn’t changed it back. (Notably we are the only country signatories to do this).

    I disagree that anyone with $10,000 is doing ok – how long can you last on $10,000 – your entire future? What then when no one will give you work as an asylum seeker? It’s likely that they have liquidated all that they have in the entire world to do the best thing for their family – would you do any differently?

    “These are the people we used to take until Rudd got in.” – WRONG: They were taken before Rudd got in and they were taken after Rudd got in.

    – Between 2001 and 2007/8 29432 asylum seekers arrived by air and 2660 arrived by boat.
    http://tinyurl.com/ms5kmp6

    So once again, you are incorrect, over 30,000 people came between 2000 and 2007/8 – the onshore and offshore quotas were linked in 96/97. And at the same time people were taken from offshore.

    We call know that plenty have arrived both by air and by boat after Rudd got in.
    What can be seen however, is that on average equal if not higher amounts of offshore asylum seekers have been granted Visas since:

    (year above / below is the number of offshore refugee visa grants)
    01‐02 02‐03 03‐04 04‐05 05‐06 06‐07 07‐08 08‐09
    4160 4976 4134 5511 6022 6003 6004 6499
    http://tinyurl.com/jwryg4t – page 11

    Try to put this on Rudd/Gillard however hard you might try, this is a continuation of the terrible policies that both governments have had that started with Howard.

    So once again, your claims are baseless and easily disproved.

    The question STILL remains – as a cornerstone of his election campaign, how will Tony Abbott and the Coalition handle this issue in a more humane way when both the Navy and Indonesia have said they won’t cooperate with turning back the boats?

  66. Terrible fact no one often recognizes here is that a private UK hedge fund owned company called Serco makes Billions in revenue by putting asylum seekers in detention. That’s right – some people / some companies make BILLIONS out of detaining these people. They build/run detention centres. They man patrol boats. They also profit largely from running airports in wars… running Melbourne’s rail system…

    Do you think the policy will ever change while some bigwigs out there are making billions off the misery?

    Time will tell, I’m going with NOT.

  67. “I disagree that anyone with $10,000 is doing ok – how long can you last on $10,000

    Plenty of people in India and China do.

    And my understanding is that we are taking fewer and fewer people from refugee camps because the boat people are taking all the places.

  68. So we allow 45,000 boat people into the country and not allow them to work, provide no medical support, give them small handouts and rely upon charities like Life LIne and The Salvos to tend them. Gillard and Labor have done absolutely nothing in any regard to find solution, except offer a swap of 800 boaties for 4000 refugees, which will only compound the problem. It’s really easy to stop the boats. Pay Indonesia $1 billion and save the other $2 billion a year we currently spend to fight the people smugglers and yes, where possible, tow the bastards back to Indonesian waters with a near empty tank.

  69. I do agree with one thing that Morrison said today. Yes, the present way of dealing with refugees is too expensive. Yes, I also agree the expense is unnecessary. Would be better to assess them, and put them to work, adding to the economy, not detracting from it.

    I am not sure, that is what Morrison meant.

  70. $10,000 for a lifetime? Really? hmmmm

    It was also thoroughly illustrated that places like Indonesia and many other countries along their trip are very hostile environments for those seeking asylum on the series “Go Back Where you Came From”; not in being there, and definitely not in trying to find work. There are reasons that those countries don’t have amazing human rights records and aren’t signatories and there is nothing in international law that stipulates they have to seek asylum at the first country they come to.

    As the quotas are linked there would be an intrinsic ratio that would ebb and flow back and forth in regards to numbers although the ones I could find (notably doesn’t include the last two years but they’ve been at it longer than that) still show a reasonable amount.

    In addition to this the Gillard government have done two things:
    1 – They have increased the humanitarian intake
    2 – They have employed (based on panel recommendations) a no-disadvantage policy for those that get put on Christmas Island / in detention.

    It effectively allows for indefinite detention as it’s whole point is to make sure that no one who arrives by boat and ends up there gets given status before someone that is in a UNHCR camp. I don’t support this policy but the further we get into this conversation the more holes there are in your argument.

    End of the day, Labor’s policy is shit (and I reference this in terms of how it treats asylum seekers not because a certain amount of boats arrive), and Tony’s old policy (which is mostly still employed) is to turn back the boats which he has no support to do.

    He owes us a better explanation on what he plans on doing. I’d bet the farm we never see that detail and just get told “We are confident that as we have done it in the past that we can do it again”

    SMH…

  71. Fed Up – I agree – those that aren’t too fucked up to do so mentally would likely LOVE the opportunity to work hard!

  72. Tom, I am sure the I am sure the PM would be happy to reveal what led up to her calling Hockey, was it fat boy.

    At the same time, she might also release many on the names that Pyne called her, leading to calling him a mincing poodle.

    We all know what led to her critique of Abbott’s behaviour.

    I have not seen the PM make comments, unless they retort to what is said to her.

    Even then she chooses to ignore..

    It is time, they change the rules in the house. When a MP is ask to withdraw, they should have to repeat what they are withdrawing, so we, the public know,.

    The withdrawals are not even mentioned in repeats.

    I do not know why, but the voice of Hockey is grating on my nerves today. More whiny than ever.

  73. Tom, you have it wrong. Employment figures are just a talking points.

    It is Abbott’s , bad government, carbon tax that counts.

  74. notably doesn’t include the last two years

    Yep and that is when the boat arrivals really started to take off. And refugees with $10,000 are better of than those in UNHCR camps. It is a shame that we are selling our humanitarian places for money. My understanding is most humanitarian spots are being taken by boat arrivals with almost nobody taken from camps.

    I could survive in Indonesia for years on $10,000.

    Unless we are willing to take all 20 million refugees we have to have a quota system. This from July 2012 and it is even worse now.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/surge-in-boat-arrivals-swamps-refugee-intake/story-fn9hm1gu-1226425761531

    AUSTRALIA is now resettling fewer displaced people from overseas camps than at any time since modern migration programs were introduced in 1977, because of the surge in asylum-seekers arriving by boat.

    The influx of vessels, partly driven by the ongoing parliamentary deadlock over attempts to revive offshore processing of asylum-seekers, has so distorted Australia’s humanitarian intake that during the coming year a major plank of the offshore visa program, known as the Special Humanitarian Program, is at risk of disappearing completely.”

  75. Fed Up – imagine a world where pollies were held to account with the truth to constituents outside of parliament just like they aren’t allowed to mislead the house… Difficult to regulate of course..

    Am I the only one that finds it odd that it’s OK to lie to us but they aren’t allow to lie in the house?

  76. Neil,

    And that’s where it really started to take off – the policy didn’t change two years ago to trigger any change here. Globally, as indicated earlier, there has been an increase slowly but surely since 2007 when more troops went into Afghanistan.

    Asylum seekers (they’re only refugee’s once deemed to be genuine) with $10,000 are better off than those in UNHCR camps – that doesn’t mean that there is any legal or moral requirement for them to go and put themselves into detention in a country like Indo… quite the opposite in fact.

    “It is a shame that we are selling our humanitarian places for money. My understanding is most humanitarian spots are being taken by boat arrivals with almost nobody taken from camps.” – on what basis do you come to this belief? The figures I have shown you disagree entirely with what you are saying. There is nothing to suggest otherwise for recent years – I welcome to see the data otherwise as I had trouble finding anything more recent than 2011.

    2010 – 2011
    Offshore – 2973
    OnShore (Includes protection visas IE air arrivals) – 4828
    http://tinyurl.com/28ujawd

    We can’t see a breakdown of how many are by air and boat there and we know based on the past that there are more who come by air; far from a majority by boat.

    Hopefully this further educates your understanding…

    I could survive in Indonesia for years on $10,000 – as could I – but would you do so if you were in danger and vilified by locals just for being an asylum seeker as well as having no employment prospects? I think not.

    Pretty sure I’ve already illustrated we have a quota system, and a policy to try and increase offshore vs onshore applicants.

    The Australian? Paaaaaaahllllease – you may as well quote me Andrew Bolt no wait wait – Alan Jones!

    I have already acknowledged that there is a clear link between onshore and offshore applications in regards to one going up and one going down. This will ebb and flow as onshore applications increase/decrease. Again, you have the Howard government policy in place to thank for that. Amnesty International has been trying to get this reversed for over a decade. Even though people who arrive by air count for a big portion of this they are ok because they had a VISA right? :\

    The problem here isn’t that people don’t decide to put themselves at risk and into an indonesia UNHCR camp when they have a history of human rights abuses and aren’t a UNHCR signatory and get on a boat and come here; The problem is that the quotas are linked.

    Ask yourself this… what would you do with your family? Get on a boat or wait in one of those shitty camps in Indo?

    I’m done – you see to find any excuse even when the majority of your excuses are easily disproved.

    And yet we still find ourselves in a situation without a valid explanation from Tony Abbott how he will improve the situation.

  77. The Australian? Paaaaaaahllllease – you may as well quote me Andrew Bolt no wait wait – Alan Jones!”

    Yep and it also said this. Your figures are out of date.

    The number of SHP visas issued in the past 12 months is down to 800 from 5183 in 2007, the year Labor took office.

    On present trends, the SHP program, designed for family members of refugees in Australia as well as victims of gross human rights violations, will be extinguished by the end of the year, as the number of asylum-seeker arrivals has already topped 5000, surpassing last year’s total of 4565. The figures emerged yesterday as Immigration Minister Chris Bowen turned the refugee debate on its head by arguing that onshore processing of asylum-seekers had the perverse effect of reducing resettlement opportunities for worthy refugees in global trouble spots such as the Horn of Africa.”

    Its funny. I give you The Australian and you people give me liars like Peter Martin, Stephen Koukoulis, Bernard Keane and John Quiggen.

  78. We still aren’t acknowledging how small the numbers are of people arriving here by boat compared with the millions of refugees in transit all over the world and in our own region. Ben Elton pinned the PM down about this last night with a question on boat people and she was frank about the complexities of the problem, saying that ultimately their policy right now was, of necessity, about deterring people from from using people smugglers and their boats. And yes, she acknowledged and empathised with the feelings of desperation which drove them to that course and its dangers, but as Prime Minister she was was required to make decisions about how best to manage the situation.

    My own feelings when I listen to Sarah Hansen Young and others is one of extreme impatience. It seems she wants our navy and coastal surveillance services on permanent standby to rescue these poor souls, thousands more of whom, if she had her way would come to learn that Australia has an open border policy.

  79. The asylum seeker described as a “convicted jihadist terrorist” by the leader of the opposition, Tony Abbott, is not wanted on charges related to murder or explosives and firearms possession, sources at Egyptian Interpol have confirmed.

    Numerous media reports, several opposition politicians, and senior officers at the Australian federal police (AFP) have previously suggested that Sayed Abdellatif, an Egyptian asylum seeker who arrived in Australia in May last year, was the subject of an Interpol “red notice” from 2001 due to previous convictions for premeditated murder and possession of firearms.

    But Egyptian Interpol officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Guardian Australia that Abdellatif’s 1999 convictions related to joining a banned organisation, and being party to a conspiracy to topple Hosni Mubarak, the dictator overthrown in the 2011 Egyptian uprising….

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/egyptian-interpol-sayed-abdellatif-charges

  80. Neil,

    Pretty funny that that 2012 data makes 2011 out of date huh? (facepalm). Although I still don’t accept the Australian as a valid source it’s more than I could find whilst at work – over it.

    (I don’t have a login to the australian to view that full page incidentally so I saw the first two paragraphs at best).

    I haven’t quoted any of those four people so I’m not sure how bringing them up adds any value to your argument? I have quoted the Australian Parliamentary website and the refugees.org website primarily.

    I have often said I think the current policy is terrible, although an improvement on Howard policy years as we face up to our international obligations.

    So either way we have a choice:

    * Ignore our international obligations and intercept people before they have the chance to apply for asylum and send them back from whence they came. If so Tony Abbott needs to tell us how he plans on doing this without a co-operative Navy and Indonesian government.

    * Abide by our commitments and process asylum seekers however they arrive.

    I know which better illustrates the Australia that I believe in and the Australian spirit I believe in.

    Maybe the next time the coalition is elected you will protest their joining of the quotas since it seems to be core to your protest on this issue?

  81. Why not ask the current Minister – Brendan O’Connor a few questions.
    Poor guy has only been there since 4/2/13 so what could he do to stop the boats,
    his predecessors have failed and so far he has.
    He could not care as he is a lucky one with his seat of Gorton – the margin
    being>20%. Has he done a good job, well No.

  82. It’s not one of the pillars of his governments re-election. It would be great to see an improvement on the current policy but it’s Tony Abbott that owes us an explanation as to how he plans on improving matters for the election.

  83. But,but, but….let’s keep on topic folks. The question is: which party can “stop the boats” ? Father Abbott seems to have the best 3 word slogan and PR, so my my vote goes to Him.

    I totally believe he has a special deal with Indonesia BTW.

  84. Fed Up – yup – total beat up on that one to further demonise asylum seekers so the Liberals could say that Labor’s “border protection policy” was making the country unsafe – proven wrong later on – doesn’t matter now it was yelled from every mountain, sadly…

  85. Mark, yes Abbott could have a deal.If he has, it will cost us. Cost us dearly.

    If so, he should let the voter in on the secret. or at least tell us how far he is willing to go.

  86. who has a sensible suggestion re asylum seekers arriving by air, clearly they’ve got the money to come here, but no Politician is making an issue about this,…
    Tweedle di Tweedle dum what’s the Tea Party input? latest figures I can dig up are from 2012 at:-
    http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/2012-face-facts-chapter-3
    In 2010–11,… 11,491 asylum seekers sought protection from within Australia. / In 2010–11 the total figure included 6316 applications lodged by asylum seekers who entered Australia by air, who almost always arrived on a valid visa, and then applied for a Protection Visa.

  87. Totally agreed Fe. What ever deal that slime ball has with Gina, Murdoch,Indonesia etc. will cost us all dearly.

  88. Migs, Tweed’s problem is he’s a Liars barracking twat.

    Lance, he’s just going to stop the boats. Surely you don’t need any more information than that. And Rupert says that’s all we need to know. and surely you have every faith in Rupert.

    Mind you, the poms don’t seem very enthused; they reckon he’s unfit to run an international business, let alone a domestic one.

    However Neil has absolute faith in Rupert and his minions. Not for him, the findings of that naughty Leveson Enquiry.

    So what if Rupert’s organisation was found to be corrupt to the core, or that the Canadians won’t let his Fox News set foot on their soil because tit doesn’t pass their lie detector test, Rupert is backing Neil’s hero Liealot and that’s good enough for Neil..

  89. Is it just me 🙄 …. but the FACT that the factless Trolls ( ..as Ricky P. calls ’em *waves* ), still inhabit the Cafe gives me hope…. nay.. gives me much more than hope… 😉 , of an ALP… Julia Gillard led victory come Sept. 14 …. now bare with me ..Tweed, Erin, Voyager, Tree, Iain, Scaper and El Gordo 😀 .. have I missed anyone… (good 😀 ) … but the FACT that the MSM and ‘youse’ state that the abortion of an human being, that low life bully boy, sniffer .. Tony -I am a ad hominem-wit- Abbott is ‘some how supposed’ to be a shoe-in and you Trolls are here to remind us of that… gives me hope + …… because if that puppet-wit were truly in the prime posi that y’all epostulate…. if it was all done and dusted….. if it were/was a fait accompli ….. then why the fuck would be you here 😯 ……. the simple answer is……’to give LOVO hope’….. thanx guys…. you’d da best-est 😀
    Keep sowing those seeds of doubt Trolls…. it’s working a treat…IMO…… now, if you weren’t here at CW….. weren’t lieing through your teeth…. weren’t misinforming…. weren’t obfuscating and making shit up… then I may not have the optimisim that I have…… again.. thanks. 😛
    ‘Youse’ are only here because you know how weak you lot are with the phony at the wheel… no, really 😉 ……can’t wait for the ‘debate’….. ( re: JG v’s TA ) …really 😆

  90. I dont know, whats the world coming to… you dont believe Tony, you dont believe Mal, you dont believe Scott, no one believes Christopher & who the hell is Rupert except a dirty old Yank? (I decided not to use the word turd, as they are useful!)

  91. yes that debate, the debate that scares the hell out of anyone liberal ! bring it on !!!!. i can see them shaking in their boots now ! come on boy and girl trolls, how do you feel about a one on one debate ! simple question, can you answer it honesty ?

  92. So where do the right wingers stand now that the Vice President of Indonesia, the second highest official in Indonesia, said yesterday that Indonesia will not cooperate with the Coalition, and it seems not only on stopping the boats but in other diplomatic areas as well.

    Now we have the Indonesian Ambassador, Foreign Minister (in very strong language unusual for Indonesian diplomats) and the Vice President all saying they will not countenance or support a Coalition government sending back the boats no matter what that Australian government offered to do so.

    But it gets much worse than that. Again in what is very usual for Indonesian authorities, the Vice President vented his displeasure at Julie Bishop for more or less calling the Indonesian liars by stating that they were saying one thing in public but something entirely different in private with Bishop.

    We all know who are the real liars and always have been, and it ain’t Labor or the Indonesians or anyone else the Liberals and their gormless supporters call liars, in what is probably the greatest example of sustained projection by the right, it’s themselves.

    This means the entire Abbott asylum seeker policy is in tatters as just yesterday in Nowra he reaffirmed that stopping the boats was one of his three policy legs when in government. Repeal the Carbon Price (that’s working and not effecting the economy), Stop the Boats (which is now in tatters) and put the budget back in the black (which the other week he admitted he can’t do for a decade or more.)

    What this announcement from the Indonesian Vice President means is that Abbott’s asylum seeker policy is weaker than the government’s in every other way. Abbott has said he wants to go back to the Howard policy, that means:

    TPV.
    Are weaker and more generous than the current No Advantage Bridging visas.

    Detention.
    Morrison has criticised the woeful conditions on Manus and Nauru so a Coalition government will need to bring them up to the standard they were at under Howard. Huge expense and again weaker than the current situation.

    Children in Detention.
    Howard under pressure removed many children from detention, something Labor in opposition strongly called for. Under this Labor government to their shame not only are children in detention they are under worse conditions than they were under Howard. Again the Coalitions will be a weaker policy than this government’s.

    Processing.
    More passed through the Howard processing regime than are currently making it through, where all down to children are in complete limbo.

    So the smugglers will be able to sell the asylum seekers the message that under the Coalition government they will be better off.

    On every front the Coalition’s policy is a failure, but worse it is threatening to alienate our biggest neighbour, whose GDP is about to surpass ours and who are our most important regional trade and diplomatic partner.

  93. Australians support Abbott on this one for sure.
    Go out to Western Sydney and prove it.
    Only 90 odd sleeps to go.
    Have arranged a Dons Party at my joint and part of it is symbolic ‘ring of the Bell’
    every time a Labor seat falls. I guess we can say For who the Bell Tolls!

  94. “said yesterday that Indonesia will not cooperate with the Coalition

    I think you will find Indonesia said that last time but Howard did it anyway.

    “Howard under pressure removed many children from detention”

    Actually under pressure Howard removed them all. I find it strange that the people who condemned Howard are not to be seen condemning Labor. If Howard was in power with 6,000 asylum seekers locked up and 1,000 children locked up the usual suspects would be chaining themselves to fences.

    That is what always irked me about Labor supporters. They support a team not principle. Basically 45% of the population will never vote for the Coalition so facts are irrelevant.

  95. I find it strange that the people who condemned Howard are not to be seen condemning Labor.

    Where did you get the comment you were referring to from nil? 😯

  96. I don’t see any poles for the asylum seekers who have drowned at sea. Remember the crap Labor gave Howard over SIEVX. Where is Tony Kevin??

    We have had more than 1,000 people drown. I wonder what Labor supporters would be saying if it was a Howard govt in charge when these people drowned??

  97. Remember the crap Labor gave Howard over SIEVX.

    You are honestly trying to conflate those events 😯

  98. I love how you will see little to no Labor supporters out there supporting the current Labor asylum policy but so frequently there are posts and accusations saying that we do. The majority do not support either policy, we just think that the Liberals ignoring our obligation and turning boats around is worse.

    Liberal supporter (and you Neil) talking about facts is laughable when I destroyed all but a smidge of your argument yesterday with facts vs your rhetoric.

  99. Neil, the reason that the PM is not being condemned for those kids, is because they know that the present system in place, is that of Mr.Abbott.

    This has come about, because the Greens also want all or nothing.
    The PM has a policy, that was developed by the panel of experts she set up. Whether it will work or not, we will never know. Well at least not, if the PM loses the election.

    I think, unlike PM Howard, those children are being moved into the community faster, on bridging visas, which are tougher and crueler than temporary visa.

    Neil, the answers are to be found in today’s climate, not two decades ago.
    Can anyone tell me when Howard stopped his attempts at turning the boats about. When did he stop. How many boats came after that action.

    Abbott was warned by Indonesia, when the Ambassador spoke. Yesterday he got a warning, he cannot ignore. I suspect that the Indonesians would not be happy with the stunt of , going to Indonesia, not raising the matter, but wink wink, I have them on side.

  100. Neil, the reason that the PM is not being condemned for those kids, is because they know that the present system in place, is that of Mr.Abbott.”

    You people are insane. Abbott is leader of the Opposition. He is not in govt.

  101. And Howard did release children from detention.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/last-batch-of-detained-children-to-be-freed/2005/07/28/1122143944637.html

    Authorities have today begun releasing 45 children and their families held in Australian immigration detention centres……….All children must be freed by tomorrow under an agreement between the Prime Minister, John Howard, and moderate Coalition MPs, who lobbied for their release…………By the end of this week, there will be none [in detention],” Senator Vanstone said in a statement.”

  102. The simple fact that this thread is an email to the opposition and not the incumbent government that’s responsible, pretty much says it all. Or did we miss the thread that was addressed to Gillard and co. ??

  103. Because Erin’s back if you didn’t notice it is the Opposition who have been telling all and sundry that “Turn Back the Boats” is their number one policy plank, not the government. So it is apt to ask just how they are going to achieve this if in government.

    They and all their rusted on zombie troll supporters have also been saying they have won the next election so another reason how they are going to achieve what they not only have promised but have spouted as their number one priority.

    It is also fair to ask them how they are going to achieve what they are promising above everything else as three senior Indonesians and the head of our Navy have stated they cannot do what they are promising to, yet they are still promising it without giving a single detail on how they will achieve it.

    It is also fair to ask not just Morrison but Bishop why they are lying on this matter and on just about everything else.

    If they are lying now it means they will be deceptive and prevaricate in government, the very reason they are telling us we need to get rid of current government over.

    In other words they are not only greatly lying but also blazing hypocrites, which is yet another reason they should be challenged.

  104. Let’s also not forget that they will not allow the Government to pursue their preferred course of action in a regional solution with Malaysia due to, in their words, humanitarian issues, and yet are pushing a policy even Indonesia won’t countenance.

    Hypocrites

  105. Right now, there are only two things that really matter to the vast majority of Australia voters IMO.

    1. Under the Rudd / Gillard we’ve had almost 45,000 arrivals and almost 1000 lives lost.

    2. People have just stopped listening to Gillard. In the midst of all of this she seems more pre-occupied with focusing on winning the women’s vote than anything else.

    Quite frankly, I think she’s lost the plot !

  106. As cruel as it may sound to you, Erin, those boat people won’t be voting in this year’s election. Women of Australia will be.

    But don’t get me wrong. I don’t like the deaths either. I also dislike the idea of Abbott leading this country and if you think he’s going to fix the problem then it is you who have lost the plot.

  107. Erin, I would have thought that the “two things that really matter to the vast majority of Australian voters”, is justice and the preservation of democracy.

    All of us, unless you are a native brother or sister arrived here as refugees of one kind or another – bound in iron chains, as indentured labour or escaping tyranny and who saw the distant shores of Australia as a new opportunity.

    Never has coming to Australia been an easy option, trying to integrate into a culture far less cosmopolitan than the vast majority of cultures – isolation from friends and family. The only thing which we have going for us is our sense of fairness, of willingness to accept others – we do this sometimes reluctantly but I pride myself on being Proud of Australia’s achievement in being the most successful nation as regards little or no ethnic violence, and backed up by strong anti-discrimination laws.

    Otherwise you do not have a clue, lives lost? How many lives lost in wars and many of our making, yet you in your arrogance are unwilling to accept the victims, the refugees. You and your ilk disgust me.

  108. ““two things that really matter to the vast majority of Australian voters”, is justice”

    Yeah and what is just that you also need to have $$$$10,000 to get into Australia. Large numbers of refugees from camps can no longer get into Australia because their places are being taken by boat people.

    I would say that is immoral. Selling refugee places.

  109. I know its getting away from the subject – but has the Labor Party worked out
    who is going to man their polling booths come 14/9.
    As Party membership has nosedived many I suspect will be unmanned. Sad reflection.

  110. Hear! hear! Min.

    How many lives were lost in the illegal war of Iraq that Howard not only lied about to be involved in but his government gave millions to to aid the regime he was fighting.

    And they were not only Iraqi lives.

    Why Erin’s back are you so willing to risk Australian Defence, Immigration and AFP lives in pursuit of an asylum seeker policy that not only has been flagged as very risky to those personnel in implementing, but has been stated won’t be done because of that unacceptable risk?

    Why Erin’s back are you so willing to risk a diplomatic fallout with Indonesia, sorry I take that back. Why do you accept the diplomatic fallout that the opposition have already incurred against our most powerful neighbour in pursuit of a policy that neighbour says they won’t allow?

    What it says about you Erin’s back is that you like the other right wingnuts believe winning an election at all costs because of a blind ideology that you cannot lucidly iterate the reason for, and supporting a gormless leader you know is clueless and dangerous puppet to big vested interests is more important than the well being of this Nation and its peoples.

  111. I know a few ladies that are at the booths at every election, one could argue that those booths were un-manned………and yet……….. 😀
    ALP membership is increasing in my area Voyager…… lots of new female members too 😉

  112. Then why has Liberal Party membership nose dived Voyager?

    According to you they are the greatest thing ever but for some reason for all that greatest they can’t attract members.

    This is a quote from the IPA. Like to see you dispute it.

    Despite holding federal government for eleven years, Liberal Party membership has declined around the country to unprecedented lows.

    Sorry but that membership hasn’t picked up since Abbott and has continued to decline as has Labor’s.

    Membership of major parties has declined dramatically.

  113. There is none so blind as those who refuse to see.

    And that holds truest for the right wing supporters and even more so for those who lamely attempt to defend the indefensible in Abbott, who in opposition has managed to piss off our biggest neighbour.

  114. Neil, so money precludes one from receiving justice. If you have money enough to buy a passage to Australia then you shouldn’t received justice. WELCOME TO AUSTRALIA!! Come on right on in, to a country where only the wealthy can afford justice..at least the legal system’s version of it.

  115. “before you continue on with your shambolic echo chamber group think faux moralism(s) try this link..”

    You are diverting the issue. Unless we are willing to take all 20 million refugees we have to have a quota system. And if we have a quota system we should pick which refugees come.

  116. “All of us, unless you are a native brother or sister arrived here as refugees of one kind or another – bound in iron chains, as indentured labour or escaping tyranny and who saw the distant shores of Australia as a new opportunity”

    Really Min ? Not sure about you, but I was born here.

    “Never has coming to Australia been an easy option, trying to integrate into a culture far less cosmopolitan than the vast majority of cultures – isolation from friends and family”

    You lost me on ‘cosmopolitan’ ? You do realise these people aren’t arriving from Paris or New York right 🙂

    “How many lives lost in wars and many of our making, yet you in your arrogance are unwilling to accept the victims, the refugees”

    How am I ‘unwilling to accept the victims . . . the refugees’ ? I have no problem with accepting refuges into our country. But not all asylum seekers arriving by boat are refugees and not all refugees are fleeing a war of ‘our’ making either !!

  117. Oh and Min, if people of my ilk make you sick, then don’t you have the power to ban me ? Knock yourself out. I’m sure you won’t lose any sleep over it, and I know I won’t !!

  118. Erin, I have the power to ban you…not that I would bother, that would take 2 clicks, two more than you’re worth…

    Not that it will make any difference to you, but the vast number of people arriving by boat are found to be genuine refugees. The rest are sent home.

    Neil, I was willing to give the Malaysia Solution a try. In theory I thought that it was at least worthy of investigating – a regional solution to a regional problem, the people in Malaysia who have already been assessed as being genuine refugees would go to the front of the queue whereas people yet to be assessed would go to the back of the queue. Some of the people who are currently in Malaysia and who are genuine refugees, have been waiting over 5 years for a country to take them.

    If you are interested in solutions rather than playing games, then at least this is something rather than Abbott’s absolutely stupid idea of turning the boats around. Admiral Barrie has told Abbott and made public statements telling him you cannot turn the boats around. What part of *No you cannot do it* does Tony Abbott not understand…

    Erin, unless you are completely dense which is a strong possibility, my point is that we (either ourselves personally or our ancestors) all came from elsewhere originally and so the argument of “economic refugees” is puerile and superficial at best.

    ps..are you el gordo. 😉

  119. You guys really do love a conspiracy don’t you.

    Sorry, but I’m not ‘yomm’ or ‘el gordo’ or anyone else you’ve locked horns with in the past. I’m really not.

    I’m just your run of the mill ‘disgusting’ and ‘dense’ Gillard denier 🙂

  120. Goodness Erin, you knew about that comment even before Admin did..it’s almost as if you know who the person is…

  121. A few things here that you should know. This is a copy and paste of an email I received from an Inspector of the Australian Federal Police.

    [1] Currently the Federal Police are not producing as many drug busts due to the millions of dollars of their budget being put into intercepting illegal boat people.
    [2] When the boat sank last year off Christmas Island, the Australian authorities were throwing life jackets to the children and the adults were swimming to where the life jackets were, then pushing the children under the water and taking the life jackets to save themselves.
    [3] When the boat people arrive here, they have already printed out from the internet their rights and have a list of welfare benefits that they demand from the Australian Government.
    [4] Whilst in detention they tell the guards that they are here to serve them and the Federal Police have already investigated a number of assaults on detention staff resulting from them “not respecting” the detainees.
    In other words when a guard doesn’t respect or serve these illegal boat people to “their” satisfaction, they believe it’s fine to backhand them to gain a little more respect.
    [5] After spending around 6-9 months in detention, the illegal boat people have approximately $10 000 saved in “welfare payments” from the Australian Government. They then send the money home and arrange for the next family member to come here on a boat.
    This means we are actually paying for the continuous flood of illegal boat people via the welfare payments provided to them.
    [6] The boat people are all “given” mobile phones and allowed to phone whomever and where ever in the world they please.
    The reported cost of the combined telephone bills for the first quarter of this year was around $5,000,000.
    Yes, you read correctly, five million dollars all provided by the Australian taxpayer.
    [7] Residents and the Federal Police on Christmas Island only have dial-up internet which we all know is impracticable in today’s internet age. Yet all the detainees have broadband internet care of the taxpayer.
    ………………………………………………………………………………………
    Don’t give a stuff about the topic and certainly don’t give a flying fuck if you people don’t believe it as you are wont to only believe what suits your narrow ideology!

  122. “Goodness Erin, you knew about that comment even before Admin did..it’s almost as if you know who the person is…”

    I assume what you’re trying to say Min is “thank-you for bringing it my attention” . . . . as far as knowing about it before admin, it really wasn’t that difficult. With the title ‘suck . . . .” it kind of stood out a bit.

    That said, I hope you’re not on the NBN Min, because the comment was probably there for a good ten minutes before you noticed it ???

    But sure, I’m ‘yomm’ . . . . ‘el gordo’ . . . . and now I’m this charming individual as well ???

    Paranoid much ???

  123. You want a debate, newby? You are just trolling and I doubt you could debate without abuse. To put shit on over half of Australians because they do not vote Labor exposes your rather narrow mind set. Want to take a guess which party I voted for in 2007? I wish I got the education you had to write so eloquently.

  124. not me dopey, i want your gutless leader to have a series of debates, one on one with julia gillard ! i dont care about liars like you ! so back to the debate, would you like to see abbott finally talk without running away ?

  125. “whenever i mention debates, the trolls never respond”

    “debates trolls ? want to talk about your fearful leader”

    ” i dont care about liars like you”

    Gee Steven, hard to believe no one really wants to play with you considering how appealing you make it sound ???

    But if you a want to debate then I’ll start . . .

    What’s your favourite colour and why ???

  126. Liberal voter??? I see you won’t offer a guess which party I voted for in 2007.

    See, can’t debate, just abuse because that is all you are capable of. Hey, when the election campaign starts proper I’m sure Abbott will debate whomever is the leader of Labor.

    You remind my of Carter…a dweeb that is a lion behind his computer but goes to water when face to face.

  127. see you know he is to scared and to stupid to have a debate, so you change the subject ! now tell me , why would you want a stupid coward to be prime minister ? now answer that one please ?

  128. I know I offered that bridge to Neil in another thread, but I see scaper’s a real live one to believe that BS actually came from anyone other than a racist redneck. Now about that bridge scaper – perhaps we can discuss terms 😆

  129. Settle Steven – scaper has posted his name AND his photo on this blog before. He’s a real mover and shaker, didn’t you know? 😉 😆

  130. Good stuff Steven. Perhaps you can get in a few more posts before your parents call you to dinner 🙂

  131. Hey Bacchus, after your belief in the twit that confirmed the menu was read by all last night…I’ve got a opera house you might be interested in. A small deposit is required.

    HAHAHAHAH!

  132. “now erin, you never said why would vote for a stupid coward, i am still waiting ? is that to difficult a question”

    Simple answer Steven. If it’s someone (anyone) you’re opposed to then I know I’m on the right track 😀

  133. Speaking of shaking…better get shaved and suited for the dinner engagement tonight.

    Reckon I’ll wear the salmon pinstripe bespoke number, blue tie and diamond cufflinks to impress the person that is looking at moving up in the judiciary.

  134. ahh !!! just like abbott, to scared to give a real answer !! everybody knows abbott is out of his depth ! when confronted with intelligent people ! its his appeal to the stupid masses, that is the real reason he is the loto !

  135. How funny, someone that can’t type and has atrocious spelling calling a Rhodes Scholar stupid. I reckon Abbott would do you in less than thirty seconds in the ring. But in reality…you’d shit your nappy before getting in the ring, newby.

    Better get ready to take that person out…my wife. You know what a wife is? Doubt it, as judging by your demeanor here I reckon your hand would knock you back. What a loser you appear to be.

  136. rhodes scholar my arse, he paid for that ! you would know all about shit, is sprays out of your mouth everytime you speak. you wife must be an idiot to be married to a scumbag like you.

  137. You know when one works in an office, with people from many nations, very exceptional, nice people, one gets a different views of refugees.

    Like when a reasonably young fellow worker, very good at his job working with kids and families is asked, how many children do you have.

    Now that is in itself, an innocuous question for most. Not for some of these people. This educated Cambodian replied had six children. “had”.

    Yes, he went onto to say, in a matter of fact voice, four starve to death in my old country.

    This man was a leading teacher in his own land.

    Then he said something, that was even sadder. they had a baby to celebrated a new start. The baby is Downs syndrome. No sign of vengeance or playing the victim from this man. Was a pleasure to work with, and be around. Most has similar backgrounds. One learns quickly, they are worthwhile human beings, just like us, who deserve a fair go.

    Many that write, as it refugees are the lowest of the lowest, and out to rip us off, need to look at themselves. Need to do some deep reflection. They are a disgrace to this wonderful land of ours.

    Yes, all my forefathers came here before the 1860’s. All came as free settlers, all for a better life. All come on boats. Some fleeing that potato famine in Ireland. Not sure what motivated those from France. Suspect it could have been the lure of the gold fields.

  138. Reckon I’ll wear the salmon pinstripe bespoke number, blue tie and diamond cufflinks to impress the person that is looking at moving up in the judiciary.

    Scaper, if you want to get around dressed up like that the only people you will impress are Danny de Vito or another blog owner (who will remain nameless).

  139. “Australian Government assistance to refugees: fact versus
    fiction”

    Anyone doubting scaper’s earlier comment about “illegal boat people” entitlements was anything other than bullshit might like to read this release from the Parliamentary Library.

    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/library/prspub/3WCV6/upload_binary/3WCV6.pdf;fileType=application/pdf#search=%22Immigration%22

    Any Inspector of the Australian Federal Police who was stupid enough to put those comments in an email would have his arse in a sling.

    But scaper believes it.

  140. Drum, is now saying, being bad week, and this week will be facing more leadership talk. God help us. time to let it go.

  141. You know when one works in an office, with people from many nations, very exceptional, nice people, one gets a different views of refugees.

    You lot wonder why i have to repeat things. I will post again what i said at 2.07PM.

    You are diverting the issue. Unless we are willing to take all 20 million refugees we have to have a quota system. And if we have a quota system we should pick which refugees come.

  142. Neil, so it is diversion, to say we are talking about real people.

    Neil, how often do yo raise the same question, and we give you the same answer.

    What does one call that.

    Maybe a little diversion is needed to move the topic on. Being on a merrily go round, becomes a little boring.

    No one here likes or supports what is occurring.

    Mr. Abbott does not have the answer.

    Neil, what comes next?

  143. “Mangrove, but surely you must be impressed with scaper’s dress sense. ;-)”

    Scaper thinks he’s a dinner guest, but I think he’s going to be the entertainment.

  144. Min @ 5:45 pm

    But it has escalated even higher Min. From the Ambassador to the Foreign Minister, who was scathing of Bishop and now the Vice President, who more than saying that Indonesia will not cooperate with Bishop in government but called her for intimating that the Indonesian authority are liars.

    Indonesian officials angered by Australia’s asylum seeker stance

    Isn’t it telling the sheer hypocrisy of the right wing supporters who go on and on about beat ups on this governments supposed failures in foreign affairs that are groundless but are absolutely mute when the opposition have well and truly pissed off our biggest neighbour, and more than that lied to the Australian people about private meetings with Indonesian officials.

    That is far worse by far than any made up lie about a carbon price.

  145. HAHAHAHAH!

    The pins are salmon, not the suit. Wouldn’t knock my dress sense Migs. judging by your gravatar. Nice vinyl jacket…Lowes???

  146. So, how many university degrees have you got, newby? Got one for economics or law? That has been the left’s primal mistake, underestimation. I see the AWU has pulled their support for Gillard.

    Tick, tick, tick…

  147. “What part of *No you cannot do it* does Tony Abbott not understand…”

    I see…Australia is open for colonization again via the UN? I am on my way!

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/frauds-granted-refugee-status-as-determination-process-breaks-down/story-fn59niix-1226664169170

    “I believe that Australia should be assisting people in overseas refugee situations through financial, logistical and diplomatic assistance but we cannot solve these situations by the unrestricted entry of people, most of whom are not from the most disadvantaged strata of their societies,” the former immigration official wrote.

    He also concluded that “literally millions” of people could successfully claim asylum in Australia if they could get here, if the refugee convention were interpreted the way the UN says it should be.”

    So like the good old USA, you guys have the same failing immigration policy as us, the illegal immigrants get to decide where and when they get a free Australian vacation that never ends (yes, I do mean immigrants); kiss Australia goodbye along with affordable housing prices, fauna, manageable welfare expenditures, decreased carbon emissions & consumption etc, etc….However, no birthright citizenship so there is one plus I suppose but who needs an anchor baby when you have the Australian “feel good” lobby…Nah, no pull factors here…We all know what the “push” is, POVERTY but the solution here is to IMPORT IT as means to fixing it abroad where population replacement levels are exponential…BRILLIANT…..

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/06/13/un-world-population-81-billion-2025/2420989/

  148. “sn’t it telling the sheer hypocrisy of the right wing supporters who go on and on about beat ups on this governments supposed failures in foreign affairs ”

    It was Kevin Rudd and the people who voted for him in 2007 that created this problem. Then to sooth your immoral souls you say that Howards policies would not work now.

    You lot created this problem. I remember you people saying how great you were dismantling Howards Pacific Solution. Look how great and moral we are. We are not like those Conservatives who only care about money, we care about people.

    Well the “we care about you” people have caused thousands of deaths at sea. And you all owe an apology to John Howard.

  149. scaper i am not running for government, your just a smart arse with no common decency. just like you fearful leader, he as a member of the human race has no common decency. so in your opinion having degrees, makes for a better human ? i dont think so ! in saying that, my eldest daughter have a degree, my eldest son is a tradesman, my youngest daughter is a business owner. and i am a pensioner, and a sole parent of a 9 year old son. i was in the work force for over 45 years, i have been around long enough to know total bullshit and you absolutely reek of it. tony abbott and his front bench reek of total bullshit ! i have 5 grandchildren and another on the way. and i worry what type of world will be left for them when i am gone. Abbott and his type are willing to destroy the earth all in the name of power and filthy money ! and it is the foolish masses who would give him the power to do that. you belong in that group. i am just doing my little bit to try to awaken them ! and mindless heartless nasty people like you dont help ! do you have children ? if yes. what type of world do you want to leave them ? do you love you children ?

  150. Steven Subhash James

    Wow another labor supporter from the “we care for you people”

    The only thing that scares me is another 3 years of Gillard and people like you.

  151. i care for my family, i care for all the needy and helpless people of the world, i care for all the creatures who live on this planet i care for all the trees and plants. and what do you care for, spreading total bullshit, polluting the planet. so every living thing struggles for life. is that what you and your type want ? abbott cares only about power, and he cares not of the consequences , he is a very dangerous fool !

  152. The only thing you care about is yourself.

    You sooth your conscience by preaching other stuff.

  153. Neil, perhaps you can tell us why the Howard government was spending so much money upgrading the capacity of Christmas Island?

  154. Perhaps you can tell me why we are spending $1B/year more than Howard did . That is $6B since Rudd was elected.

    Wow Steven Subhash James brings out his kids and grandkids. And he is a pensioner as well. Conservatives do not have kids or grandkids. We are hatched in a incubator so we don’t have families.

  155. Paul Toohey speaks some sense

    http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/the-trouble-with-being-kevin-rudd/story-fnho52qo-1226664160314#ixzz2WEfxUJoP

    “How many times will the Prime Minister and the various Immigration and Home Affairs ministers claim that they are “sending a message” on the boats as yet another boatload drowns?

    The cue, here, is to blame the Coalition for not agreeing to Labor’s only self-generated asylum plan (apart from the East Timor debacle): the Malaysia Solution, a human-skin trade with a dodgy regional government that never added up.

    Rudd is to blame for the current asylum problem after he abolished temporary protection visas. If he were to re-emerge as Lazarus with a cadaveric aortic valve replacement, this would be a key point of Coalition attack.”

  156. What scares me, Neil is 3 years of the corrupt Rupert’s Liars Party wrecking this country. And we know they’ll do that not just from the shit that constantly dribbles out of their gobs, but by their form in the Rodentochracy.

    Particularly Liealot. In 2001, he refused to allow Telstra to fast track compensation for employees exposed to asbestos.

    Not out of character. After all we know he couldn’t give a toss about people suffering from asbestos related diseases or any other health problem for that matter; his treatment of Bernie Banton and John Brogden shows that all too clearly.

    And the fact that almost without exception, the Liars were absent from the chamber when the NDIS was passed. Anyone with a disability or with family with disabled members would do well to remember how “caring” the Liars are wrt the disabled.

    And in 2006 the Howard government sold Telstra without revealing that the pits contained asbestos. They knew this was the case. You won’t have to look too far, several people have posted the link.

    BTW, scaper do you really believe what Rupert prints in any of his publications. After all, he’s not fit to run a business after his corruption, dishonesty & mendacity were exposed during the Leveson enquiry.

    But I don’t suppose that worries you too much; your idea of best business practice, perhaps?

    But the fact that Liealot & the Liars are in his pocket should be a worry to anyone who actually gives a shit about this country.

  157. Neil, please explain how dwelling onto who is to blame, has anything to do, with sorting out the present mess.

    We need to talk about today and tomorrow. The past cannot be changed. Waste of time.

    Neil, how does one fix it now?

  158. “And the fact that almost without exception, the Liars were absent from the chamber when the NDIS was passed.”

    You need to keep up. I think it was a fake or something like that. Most of the ALP MP’s were absent as well. So were the independents.

    And the only liar I think we should worry about is the current PM of Australia. It is her personality which is causing debate in this country to degenerate. As PM she sets the tone. And the tone is toxic. Gillard is nothing more than a school yard bully.

  159. Neil, you could not be changing the topic again. Neil, you would not do that.
    Do you keep a list by the keyboard.

  160. Neil, to criticize is easy.

    Now, having answers, is a little harder.

    Then Neil, you are not really interested in fixing things, rate you.

    Just making inane statements, one after another is your limit.

  161. Neil, I have read what you have posted fo

    It worries me, that you have not progressed one inch. Still writing the same things, as when you began.

    Time for some new ideas, or even criticism.

  162. “Neil, to criticize is easy.

    Now, having answers, is a little harder.”

    Yep so true. The ALP in Opposition constantly condemned Howards Pacific Solution. And for political reasons I believe. The ALP does not have any principles.

  163. Neil, are you really as dense as you make out.

    The Pacific Solution has been back for nigh on a year. A much harsher one than Howard’s.

    Neil, it is not working.

  164. Fed up, if the so called Pacific Solution has been back for a year then where is the TPVs???

    Want to play political football with humans you would be called off side!

  165. Neil, have you not notice, the only visas at this time are bridging visas. Much toughter that TPVs.

    All those on TVP in Howard’s day, ended up on permanent visas, three years down the track.

    On TPV, they will be allow to work, and live normal lives.

    On bridging, that is not true.

    The policy is no disadvantage test. They have to wait, for others in line, that remain in Indonesia and Malaysia to come first. No one knows, but probably up to five years at least.

    This is one of the reasons, this policy is harsher.

    Neil, believe little that Morrison spruiks.

    As for turning back the boats, hundreds are now being returned to Sri Lanka by plane. Sort of works the same, as turning back boats.

  166. scaper. not playing political football with anything. Just telling it as it is. Sorry if the facts are inconvenient.

  167. Yes you are! If Labor ordered the sinking of boats you would somehow try to defend their actions.

    Both sides in this so called debate/game disgust me.

    I suppose you support the Malaysia deal too? It is akin to people trading but you ignore that in support of your side.

    FU!!!

  168. Yes I do, along with Malaysia option with all that was put forwarded in the Heuston Plan.

    Still going on Murphy. The shrill is getting louder. and more ridiculous.

  169. scaper, what is different from turning people in boats back to Indonesia, than flying them back to Malaysia, for that matter, back to Sri Lanka.

    The aim is to return those that come by boats to the end of the queue, ensuring, they have no advantage over those who wait their turn..

    Pray, please explain how this is human trafficking.

    Neil, just keep to the facts.

    Either plan returns people to a similar country, were similar conditions exist.

    The difference is that Malaysia will be under supervision. There is also the hope, that Indonesia might come to the party, with a similar scheme. One can hope.

    Please explain, how cutting by seven thousand the number we are taking from the region will help.

  170. neil of sydney, if you are typical of every LNP voter, does that mean you dont care if our planet is slowly dying ? which also means your children and grandchildren will have to bear the consequences of all our actions and inactions on climate change. neil of sydey do you love your children ? why then will you support a party that wants them to suffer ?

  171. Neil, look at the photos. Bums absent from seats on the Liars side. Why would anyone bother to fabricate it?

    Fed up, there’s not enough room in Neil’s brain for any new ideas. He’ll have to declutter before he can take any new ideas on board.

    I wonder how he’ll rationalise the latest sexism & misogyny scandals. Maybe Rupert’s propaganda machine is being repaired so he hasn’t been told what to think.

  172. One wonders if old man Rupes is ‘clearing the deck’, so to speak……. getting things ship-shape, and all that…. before…………….. 😦
    .. one wonders what will happen to the marionette’s control bars and his things on ‘strings’……….. the word *flop* comes to mind……. just say’n 😦

  173. Is a Donkey an Ass.
    Labor is one big Donkey , has been for sometime,eaten too much grass
    and full of shit.We are seeing an absolute debacle with a PM under seige.
    Policy failure, huge anger within the public and no one Governing.
    Really it is a very sad situation – quite simply Labor is a Bad Brand.
    Forget this debate on Boat People , another Labor failure. This will be proven
    14/9 particularly in Western Sydney, the swing there will be between 15 – 20% .
    Yes Donkeys all right the way Labor has treated Australians.

  174. Voyager, ah, such projection 🙄 ……you are an echo chamber Troll…FACT.
    Julia Gillard is one of the best PM’s in Australian history….. FACT.
    This ALP govt. has been one of the most successful govt’s in Australian history…..FACT.
    Tony Abbortt has been the worst LOTO in Australian history…..FACT.
    …..and come Sept. 14, you will be an irrelevancy…..oh wait….you already are….FACT. 😀

  175. What a load of absolute bullshit!

    Gillard will go down as the worst Labor leader of the worst government in our history. Abbott is on the verge of seeing off two Labor leaders from the opposition bench.

    You are either deluded or trolling…me thinks both!

  176. Whatever your political position, I do thing it’s only fair to acknowledge Julia Gillard’s positives.

    No. 1 – She has a very cute dog !

    No. 2. . . . . . .

    Sorry that’s all I got

    Vote 1 Reuben !!

  177. No 2…she seems to like children.

    Nearly 2,000 locked up in detention…apparently she likes only Australian children. Thousands of single parents put back on new start which will mean the kids will be somewhat more disadvantaged…apparently she only likes children of working families. She seems to spend a lot of time with young children with pretty Gonski T-shirts on…apparently she likes children as political props.

    If she loves children so much why did she not have one of her own??? Nah, scrub No 2 as she does not like children and the sight of that spinster with children creeps me out!

  178. Scaper, Voyager et al,

    I think that you are probably correct in so far as there’s going to be a big swing against Labor on Sept 14.

    This doesn’t mean that the Gillard government has been the worst in our history. I’ll spare you the list of achievements.

    It just means (looking at current figures) that 5 voters in 100 might’ve changed their vote from last time.

    And, despite all the “colour and movement” and the hyperventilation of the MSM it could just as easily be an “it’s time” factor.

    I’m over “clan loyalty” and look at politics these days through the unforgiving prism of economic policy: get that wrong and everything else just gets more difficult.

    At various times I have been highly critical of Swan here on CW over his stated ambition to get the budget back into surplus.

    Swan though is “surplus-lite” compared with Hockey, Abbott, and various other LNP front benchers who would proudly claim that surpluses are in their DNA.

    But surpluses, historically, presage recessions (for good reasons).

    If you’re barracking for a Coalition victory you had better be hoping that Joe Hockey, if he gets in, does an immediate 180 and starts embracing counter-cyclical fiscal policies or wear the ignominy of being the author of the recession “we didn’t have to have”.

  179. scaper, did you get caught with a child you did not want, and demand everyone else has to be inflicted in the same way.

    scaper, the answer is simple. The PM has said why. She set out to reach the top of the tree in her chosen field.. The reality, being a woman, she come to the view, a woman could bot achieved this ambition and have a child.

    Yes, scaper, the PM as is her right made a choice.

    At the same time, I believe the PM has been a great aunt to her nephew and niece.

    Scaper, woman do not have to live the life, that suits your beliefs.

    scaper, what is sad, that woman do not . as men do, live their lives as they choose.

    Never hear of a man, being criticized for not being married or having children.

    It appears, it is only women, that can expect to be told by all and sundry, what to do, how to do it, and what to think. The latest is, that women must not address issues, that concern women.

    As a woman, I am fed up with being told what to think and how to behave, by men.

    I am sad to earn, in spite of women, across the globe, holding top positions in all realms, whether governments, unions, sport, defence, banking or any other major organizations.

    Not only holding, but doing so with success, that we are having this infantile debate in our own country.

    scaper. it is ridiculous.

    Women are not going away.

  180. Scaper,…”You are either deluded or trolling…me thinks both!” ….. there you go projecting again.
    P.S. ANDEV, what an delusional joke that lot are….. bunch of loony RW nut jobs with only one aim……. to provide Gina a tax free rort. A bunch of losers wasting everybody’s time…….FACT. HAHAHA

  181. “Neil, look at the photos. Bums absent from seats on the Liars side. Why would anyone bother to fabricate it?”

    http://ausvotes2013.com/2013/05/21/if-you-dont-know-how-parliament-works-dont-tweet-photos-of-it/

    “The NDIS legislation was passed in March. It’s already received assent, it’s already law. The legislation that was passed on May 15 was the procedural bills for the money for the DisabilityCare fund. You know they were minor bits of legislation because there was only one speaker, and half the Labor party wasn’t there either (count them!) – they only had the necessary 30-odd to ensure the chamber looks full enough behind the PM when she’s speaking from the 3 TV camera angles…………..I actually don’t know what the top photo is of. It definitely isn’t the time indicated on the photo being circulated however, as business didn’t start until 11AM on the 27th of November.”

  182. I made a post at 5.27PM explaining why no independents and only 30 ALP MP’s were present at some NDIS legislation.

    And I get some abusive comments.

    I do not understand.

  183. Honest Steven ignore Neil like I do. I have argued with this closed mind right wing ideologue for a long time and all he will do is go around in circles. He brings up the same points time and again, hardly changing a word, and just keeps on repeating them even when the fallacies are highlighted or the facts presented.

    When he is caught out in the fallacy he’s trying to peddle he just rejoins with, “You lot are liars, ALP are evil and lie”, etc.

    You’re better off having a debate with a house brick.

  184. We know that, but sometimes, I believe that Neil is dinky di, does believe what he says.Has been saying it for a long time. My fear, is that I have come across over my many years, people just like Neil, once they get an idea in their head, nothing will shift it.

    I think some of us feel a little sorry for him, keep trying, hoping one day, the penny will drop. But as you say, not much hope of that occurring. At least he is not spiteful and nasty like some. Gets frustrated at times, but that is about it.

  185. I was just responding to this comment by Jane

    “Neil, look at the photos. Bums absent from seats on the Liars side. Why would anyone bother to fabricate it?”

    It is good not to trust photographs on the internet with captions. The chamber was empty of most ALP supporters as well. The NDIS legislation was passed in March.

    I cannot understand why I am being abused.

  186. he was a smart arse to me more than once, being a smart arse is a pretty simple thing to do. but its still annoying. tony abbott is the perfect person at simple things.. so i suppose its a case of monkey see monkey do..

  187. Neil, you are not being abused. We are only saying, you are misinformed. Not nice of others to lead you astray.

  188. I am not being abused?? Some comments

    “bullshit, the only truth you preach comes out of you arse.. piss off !”

    “now which part of piss off don’t you understand ?
    your only here to upset people. PISS OFF !”

    etc..

    All i did was show at 5.27PM why those empty chambers were empty. Pictures with captions are not to be trusted until proven.

    I will post the link again.

    http://ausvotes2013.com/2013/05/21/if-you-dont-know-how-parliament-works-dont-tweet-photos-of-it/

  189. Mobius, there is no debate when the person is not about learning..gaining information, but about finding excuses to denigrate others. I often think that these do not even read what others have written, far less think about it. This is the point in time when the person must be labelled a troll. I dislike this term intensely because I know that quite a number are not “trolls” in the sense of the word being multiple personas – yet if the purpose is not to learn, to not sit and consider the opinion of others, then let the label fit – they’re a troll.

  190. On the NDIS

    Opposition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey has undermined Tony Abbott’s support for a National Disability Insurance Scheme, declaring he won’t commit to something he cannot deliver.

    Now what was that again on Abbott’s unequivocal support for the NDIS?

  191. Neil, what they are talking about, is the bills to fund NDIS. Which answer the questions that Abbott demanded to be answered.

    The other questions he asked at the same time, if he read the earlier NDIS legalization, he would have known the answers, if he took time to read, We know how he hates to do that,. Not interested on details.

    Would have known the answers, is he took the time to read, what his party supported,

    I suppose if you make sure, you are not over the detail, it allows you to ask inane questions he does.

    As for those upset at his party, may have come to the conclusion, that they cannot trust Abbott to continue the good work, of first Shorten, then the PM.

    Neil, as PM has to be able to deal with many issues at one time, and be across the lot.

    Do you really believe that Abbott has this ability.If he Cannon sit on a plane for hours, and not read the Justice Rares Judgment, one has to wonder. If he cannot get off that plane without jet lag, and immediately launch into meetings, one wonders gain.

    If he cannot avail himself of legislation, he is dealing wit as Opposition leader and be on top of it, how will he cope as PM.

    Does Abbott have the where it all to cope with all that being PM contains, The ability to think and act undo stress, with more than one issue. The ability to be able to peruse and take in all necessary information.

    The ability to with stand the abuse and pressure from others. to continue with essential but unpopular legislation.

    This PM has proven to have such ability to all that is mentioned, and some to spare.

    The pm also has the ability to listen, and where appropriate, to change direction, if circumstance warrant it. It does not have to be her way, and only her way.

    This is what one means by being tough and gutsy. I
    The PM is also willing to take risks, which some at the time, think restless, but results have shown that not to be true.
    Neil, the one thing, she will not do, is act as the media and Opposition believe she will.

    That is why she is still standing tall.

    Through all the rubbish and noise of the last three years, there has not been one day, that the PM has been detracted from governing. Not one day.

    Even over the last week, there has been much achieved.

  192. @Mo…… “You’re better off having a debate with a house brick” 😆 😆
    Steve, as Mo said don’t waste your time on two planks Neil, sadly he is incapable of seeing the errors of his ways………. treat him as a teacher whom teaches the lesson of how not to be….. he certainly has shown readers here at CW the mistaken beliefs that RWers hold to be true.. thats Neils job here,.. he shows us what we need to fight against….. Thanks Neil, you have done more for the ALP cause than you will ever know… on ya mate !! 😀

  193. yes i said that, and i meant it. you angered me with your abbott like nasty words. and if you do it again to me , you will get a second dose. i have been hearing and reading way to much horrible nasty things about julia gillard. for 3 years people like you seem to think its quite ok to do that ? but when i attack tony abbott , all hell breaks loose !
    seems LNP supporters love nothing more than dishing it out. well if your going to do that, then you must expect something back.

  194. And that’s just another in a long line of contradictions that come out of the opposition, especially when Abbott puts out a brain fart the rest of the party have to disavow or make excuses for.

    A very dysfunctional and unhappy bunch behind the scenes this lot. You can tell by how malicious and narky they are all the time. Their sense of humour and humanity left them the moment Abbott took over, it shits them that much having to work under him.

  195. “You could put facts like these below that show just how good this government has been but Neil will ignore every fact and either obfuscate, ”

    How did we get onto that topic???? i was just responding to Jane explaining why those empty chambers were empty during NDIS legislation and it gives rise to a bunch of strange posts.

    The moral i was trying to present is not to trust pictures on the internet with captions under them until they have been proven.

    That is all i was trying to say.

    http://ausvotes2013.com/2013/05/21/if-you-dont-know-how-parliament-works-dont-tweet-photos-of-it/

  196. Steve, many here share in your frustration at the low-life tactics used against our PM, but I doubt Neil is capable of understanding the fact that Julia is one of the best PM’s eva……… for some strange reason he thinks the lieing piece of shit LOTO is someone to crow about….. or even vote.. (*choke*).. for 🙄

  197. Mobius, that is something of interest..the fact that there is nothing resembling *a team* on the opposition benches. Mind you, Gillard is NOT much better. I respect Gillard a lot, a pragmatist do-er she is, a strategist publicist she is not. Today, you cannot just have ideas, policies and implement them, but you have to have cute pert breasts as well…

  198. ..ps once Tony becomes prime minister, I expect the anti-Gillard brigade to write like- comments on Tony’s penis..now that would only be fair, now wouldn’t it.

  199. No it wouldn’t be Min and you know it.

    As tempting and as understandable as it is, it is still going down to their base level of crassness.

  200. Neil, I did not get my information from the media. I am a masochist, I like to watch parliament directly.

    That is where I noticed the Opposition could not be bothered. In fact they are interested in very little that occurs in the house, except for the stunt, they pull towards the end of QT. Lately they have even lost interest in that. I believe th polls told them, such action was a negative.

  201. “I expect the anti-Gillard brigade to write like- comments on Tony’s penis..”

    Well it has already been done but by Labor supporters. haven’t you seen that menu at a Anthony Albanese fundraiser in May this year?? It was at Le Sands restaurant.

    It mentions Hockey, Abbot and Turnbull

  202. Neil, can we please have a link to that – clearly if this has been written and disseminated publicly then again it’s a clear case of defamation.

    I spent years concentrating mostly on human rights, a disability advocate and more recently doing the paralegals for a doctor of law – he’s written a book on Australian Freedom of Information Law (Dr A on a google search will give you the name) – I am therefore getting more interested in the area of defamation and the social media. I would like to think that I might start my PhD on this subject..but probably not, a good idea though…

  203. Well i saw it mentioned and got the link from Bolts blog. Apparently it was from a fundraiser for Albanese on May 6 at some restaurant at Botany Bay. As I mentioned re: empty parliament with caption. You cannot trust photo’s until proven.

    “That is where I noticed the Opposition could not be bothered.”

    FU do you read anything I post?? NDIS was passed in March. That photo of the empty chamber was for some small procedural legislation in May. I bet you can find many similar photo’s from 1996-2007 of an empty chamber with only 30 Coalition MP’s present and no ALP MP’s present for unimportant stuff.. You are reading too much into that empty chamber photo because you want to.

  204. LOVO, Neil thinks the Rodent was a good PM. I rest my case.

    Steven @8.58pm, how long would such a biff have to last? Knocking the stupid out of a Liar would be the work of a very long lifetime, imo.

    Neil I doubt any of the people here have seen that menu and I haven’t seen any mention of it on any other site or on Twitter.

    I would say that if it existed, it would have been smeared all over Rupert’s rags, Anal’s jowls would have received a significant work out & his head would have exploded with outrage.

    None of this has occurred, which leads me to believe that if it exists at all, it’s never been widely disseminated or you’re just making it all up.

    Of those two alternatives, I plump for the latter.

    Migs, we’re in the 8, according to the fanatic who lives at home and the Tingles languish at no 12. Gloat, gloat, Bacchus! :mrgreen:

  205. Neil, I wish you would read what I write. I said that the picture was of the funding bill for NDIS. The one that Mr. Abbott had many questions about.

    I also mentioned the earlier bill, for the NDIS, saying if he read it, he would not have been asking the inane questions in May.

    Yes, the NDIS was passed earlier.The method for funding in May. Abbott’s mob , in spite of running around saying me me, was not interested.

    Instead he was saying at the time, I support it but but but Many of let out clauses.

  206. quite a number are not “trolls” in the sense of the word being multiple personas

    That is not the definition of a troll. That is the definition of a sock puppet. Neil is definitely a troll. He writes to provoke. He is also a religious nutjob, as some of us noted several weeks back.

  207. Congrats Migs, Min, Fu and Co…… top ten again…. you must be doing something right *clink* ……… p.s… and if you hear noises emanating from the cellar…. its just me, toasting CW 😀 … I’ve quite take’n a like’n to Blackberry Nip, seeing as thats all Bacchus has left 🙄 …. cheers and congrats. 😉

  208. Down to 29%. Now they are openly fighting amongst themselves.

    Slater & Gordon raided on Friday by the Victorian Fraud Squad which has been investigating the matter for over six months.

    Going to be an interesting two weeks. Got the bubbly chilled…I suggest you lot have tissues at the ready.

  209. Still 24% undecided, which I heard described as those who want neither party. As one such person just asked on Local Radio, ABC, what happens when they eventually make up their minds.

    Also those men that have turned against the PM in great droves, in a matter of days, could come to their senses, when they realize the PM is not attacking men.

    As Oakeshott said, the strength in this government, is that it is still standing. Even Piers Ackerman, as bad as the man is, kept saying yesterday, that he believed the election result will be closer, that what the polls predict.Coming from him, one would wonder what he knows. He is one of the best PM hater.

  210. The vote for Labor, for the PM by woman has risen. The polls are still within the margin of error.

    Yes, maybe the stance that woman take, that will save the day.

    Pyne out with his colourful and inane language, gloating,.

  211. ABC 24 For all the talk of leadership, nothing has changed. People who are unhappy, have been long term Rudd supporters.

    Yes, nothing has changed. What appears to be cementing, that changing leadership would not achieve anything.

    I beg to differ, it would destroy Labor.

    Why would a Labor leader want to go to an early election. That would only allow Abbott to avoid having his policies costed and time for the public to digest the results. This is something that Abbott desperately gnats.

    Barry, retired defence is out condemning the Opposition policies. The other issue that arose from a old Labor minister that we rescind our support for the convention of refugees will not change a thing. That convention is based on the rights of human beings. Are we also going down the path of denying people their human rights, that is to be able to flee from war and danger to their lives.

    I think not.

    If the answer is yes, I believe we have become a people I am not proud of.

    Politics at this time is surreal, something has to give, Can Abbott keep himself and policies hidden for three months.

    We have eight days of parliament left. Labor will do, as it has for nearly three years, continue with the business of governing,

    How long can the media run a story, every few minutes, based on one discontented, insignificant Labor back bencher, that has never supported the PM. It appears one other, of the same ilk, has also spoken up.

    Listening to ABC 702 this morning, they are treating what has occurred as a joke. That nothing has happened, for all the noise, and whats more, nothing is likely to happen.

    Yes, and it appears, that 24% might be listening, not amuse by what they are hearing from all. I suggest, that includes the media.

  212. Scott Morrison will be a very competent Minister given the opportunity in a
    future Abbott government. His predecessor has excelled in the highest
    levels of incompetency.
    Who will lead Labor to the Election?
    Who likes Rudd?

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