Still lying!

I often wonder whether Tony Abbott has problems listening to what people tell him, or problems with the truth. Both, I suspect, but I only have proof of the latter. His latest (that I know of) is there for all to see on none other than the LNP website, posted on 28 March. Abbott lied when he said:

. . . yesterday we had the 600th boat under the current government. That’s 35,000 illegal arrivals by boat.

How many times does Abbott have to repeat that lie: illegal arrivals? And how many times does he need to be told that they are not illegal?

Here’s Leigh Sales trying to tell him that they are not illegal (watch after 6:00 minute mark).

And here’s Lisa Wilkinson trying to tell him too.

But in the same week as the above clip, despite knowing the truth, Mr Abbott toughened his rhetoric against asylum seekers, again referring to them as illegal

. . . more than 2000 are ”coming illegally to this country” every month without papers.

”The people who have come illegally to this country need to know that they are breaking our laws, that they are, if I may say so, taking advantage, unfair advantage of our decency as a people,” Mr Abbott said.

”It is illegal to come to Australia without papers, without proper documentation, without adhering to the normal requirements that we expect of people coming to this country,” he said.

So not only does Tony Abbott lie about the legal status of asylum seekers, he also lies about the law:

ANU international law professor Don Rothwell said it was clear it is not illegal to enter Australia without a visa and seek asylum.

”Any person who arrives at Australia’s borders, whether it be at an airport or harbour or being intercepted by navy patrols is entitled to present an asylum claim to Australia,” he said.

Immigration Minister Chris Bowen said it was not illegal under Australian or international law to come to Australia and claim asylum.

”That’s been pointed out to Mr Abbott on many occasions. He’s a serial offender at repeating that,” Mr Bowen told ABC radio.

David Manne, the executive director of the Refugee and Immigration Legal Centre also disputed Mr Abbott’s statement.

”Let me state simply what the law is and the law that we’ve in fact signed up to as a country… every person around the world has the right to seek and access asylum from persecution in another country. It’s not an act which is illegal.”

Human rights advocate Julian Burnside QC in writing about the Myths and facts about boat people tells us that:

Asylum seekers who enter Australia by sea (or plane) without a valid visa are not illegal. They do not break any Australian law by coming here without papers and asking for protection.

The right to enter without prior authorisation is protected by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) which Australia helped to draft.

A more in-depth attack on Mr Abbott by Burnside can be found here on The Drum. It makes delicious reading. I’ve been told that Mr Burnside also tweeted Abbott, disputing his claim that asylum seekers are illegal, but I am unable to confirm that.

But the point is this: It is not illegals to seek asylum in this country. Tony Abbott knows that, but he still keeps saying it. So his is obviously lying. Still.

133 comments on “Still lying!

  1. What part of illegal do you not understand dope?
    An asylum seeker must seek refuge at the first safe border they cross, that would be Indonesia dope. Not Australia.
    And why do these ILLEGAL parasites throw their ID papers away? Its not for fun dope.
    Wake up dummy, its dopes like you that ruin this country.
    Gronk.

  2. Dope, dope, dope and, for variety, dummy and dopes. A great contribution to the debate, Brett. Hopefully I’m the only person who is going to dignify your childish drivel with a reply.

  3. Thank you for this post, Miglo.I have watched Australia’s attitude to refugees change from welcoming to punitive. The rhetoric from Morrison is becoming more outrageous every time he opens his mouth. I fear where he will lead us, just as I fear where Kim Jong-un is leading his country. Neither have ver far to go before they hit the wall of totally unbelievable actions.

    I also wrote on the subject today.

    Kim Jong-morrison – http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/kim-jong-morrison/

    I apologise if you find parts of this light-hearted. Without a touch of gallows humour I could not have borne what I was trying to say.

  4. Abbott knows he cannot win the election by appealing to the angels of our higher nature, as he himself called it. His only chance for success is to appeal to racists.

  5. Sorry to be off topic here but pertinent to last topic re NBN.
    RN Drive Facebook poll on LNP broadband offer.Small poll (about 300)
    Result as of 9pm – Govt. NBN 287 votes, LNP 18 votes.

  6. Migs, I’m with you, so many times I have seen Abbott and Morisscum repeat ad-infinitum the “Illegals” line, even when the interviewer has made the point that they’re not illegal.

    One can only assume that it fits with the race card that they like to play.

    Good article BTW 😀

    And my latest conundrum, “If Abbott and the LNP are the answer, what is the question?” 😀

    http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/if-abbott-and-the-lnp-are-the-answer-what-is-the-question/

    Cheers 😀

  7. Perhaps people should concentrate on the hypocrisy of the ALP. I do remember ALP supporters saying how mean and nasty was Howard for locking women and children up. Well Labor has the record for locking up boat people.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/asylum-seeker-transfers-heighten-manus-island-concerns/story-fn9hm1gu-1226598171214

    “PREGNANT women and children held at the Manus Island asylum-seeker detention centre have been brought to Australia for medical treatment and critics say it’s further proof offshore processing is failing.

    The 19 asylum-seekers were yesterday transferred in family groups from the Papua New Guinea island to the Inverbrackie detention facility outside of Adelaide in South Australia.

    What has happened to all the people who demonstrated against the Howard government????? Could it be that they were just protesting for political purposes and did not give a stuff about refugees.

  8. They lied/lie about illegal immigrants, they lied about destroying the NBN, and it is now clear that they have lied about workchoices.

    09 April, 2013 | Media Release Unions are angry at Coalition leaked documents that show four key WorkChoices policies – that the Australian public clearly voted against – would be resurrected if the Coalition wins government in September.

    http://www.actu.org.au/Media/Mediareleases/WorkchoicesresurrectedCoalitionhaveallbutconfirmedtheworstforworkers.aspx

    If they keep this up, they could well lose the unloseable election. (Fingers crossed)

  9. Here’s Jon Faine trying to tell the moron…

    Faine: They’re not illegal [Abbott keeps talking] Tony Abbott do I need to remind you that the use of words in this is critical. They are not illegal arrivals, there is nothing illegal about seeking asylum when you are a refugee
    Abbott: ….eh, ah, well, I’m making my point, ah, Jon
    Faine: Well so am I making mine
    Abbott: ok, well…
    Faine: …and I think it’s been made to you before
    Abbott: The point I’m making…

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-17/cassidy-a-rare-challenge-for-abbott/4203120

  10. Migs, I just wish we could have a decent response to this vexing problem. It will not go away, it needs better management & if the people who really care about Asylum Seekers just make sure that they put ALP, Greens or Indies on their voting cards.

    Off topic again, saw another tweet this afternoon & I linked to it re LNP Broadband policy. The results were 74% ALP to 26% LNP. when asked the simple question as to who has the best policy. TA & MT looked decidedly uncomfortable when asked Q’s from IT journos. At least those journos had the strength of mind to really serve it up to them both.

  11. Jane,

    I think Jon Faine is pretty even-handed generally. That being the case, he’s likely to be under pressure from above to toe the line.

  12. if the people who really care about Asylum Seekers just make sure that they put ALP, Greens or Indies on their voting cards.”

    Yeah where are these people?? If John Howard had 6,000 asylum seekers in detention there would be marching in the streets and people chaining themselves to the detention center fences.

    Could it be that people who condemned Howard were only doing it for political purposes???

  13. Could it be that the whole problem, in terms of dealing with asylum seekers only exists because the rodent sought (successfully) to demonise these unfortunates for political purposes?

  14. I suppose will not hear much about the polls this week. There has been a turn about, back to Labor. Not great, but moving the right way.

    Bloomberg has seen fit to publish the fact.

  15. People seem to seery clearly through the lies when it comes to the NBN.

    “The coalition’s plan to deliver earlier and cheaper broadband to Australia has been dismissed as slow and inadequate by the government and IT experts.

    In announcing the coalition’s first major policy of the election year, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott promised that if elected, his government would offer all households and business minimum download speeds of 25 megabits a second (Mbps) by the end of its first term in 2016.

    But Labor’s National Broadband Network (NBN) offers download speeds of up to 100Mbps, with a plan to give households and businesses access to speeds of up to one gigabit per second to those connected by the end of 2014.

    Critics say the main plan to roll out optic fibre cable to ‘nodes’ – cabinets on street corners – short-changes the nation’s communications infrastructure future.

    ‘It cannot deliver the high-speed services that Australians require to take full advantage of broadband-enabled healthcare, education and business opportunities,’ Communications Minister Stephen Conroy said in a statement.

    RMIT University telecommunications expert and senior lecturer Mike Gregory said the policy wasn’t a sensible answer to Australia’s communications needs.

    ‘This is the biggest lemon in Australia’s history,’ Dr Gregory told AAP..”

    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=861977&vId=3903362&cId=Top%20Stories&play=true

  16. I think it is the other way around. You lot were trying to demonise Howard and you were using refugees to do it.

    I don’t think most of the people who protested against Howard gave a stuff about refugees. They were just cannon fodder for “the left” to attack Howard. How else do you explain the lack of protest against 6,000 asylum seekers in detention??

    If you put Howard back in power and he did exactly what Gillard is doing you lot would be out in the streets protesting.

  17. The MSMLNP Abborttion is/are trying to appeal to the underlying ‘belief’ amongst the rebel ‘southern cross’ flag waverer’s society types…. which cross all political bounderies,.. by the by and by 🙄 …. and are, by all accounts, a pretty active bunch….. imo, this bunch have become so addicted to the MSMLNP mantra on boat people that they will *fail* to see anything other than the spin…… many with this disorder will vote for anyone that appears to hold their same misinformed and wrong view….even at the detriment of the *facts*… thier job…… thier mortgage….. thier country and it;s democratic principles….. they won’t bother with *facts* such as 90+% of asylum seekers/refugee’s/visa overstayerers (illegal immigrants) etc. come by plane ( oh, oh lets do something about the majority plane ‘illegal’s’ oh, oh … not to much said aboot that….FFS)…… or that 95% of our fellow human beings that Howard supposedly ‘turned back’ are now LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and living here… safely…. in Australia, because they were genuine refugees/asylum seekers… 🙄
    It should be ‘Turn back the bloat’, because this overdone cow so called liberal party dose nought but expend hot air….. *belch*… and to pander to that underlying bigotry that is …. well…the shame of any civilised country.. let alone the land of the fair go, is well and truly beyond the pale. …… IMO, the ANZAC’s didn’t fight for what the latest version of the LNP(MSM) are setting us up for… 🙄

  18. Neil, I will ask once again, why was it that Howard’s 17 attempts at introducing fast broadband did not work.

  19. ‘This is the biggest lemon in Australia’s history,’ Dr Gregory told AAP..”

    Lol, well said.

  20. oh, oh lets do something about the majority plane ‘illegal’s’ oh, oh … not to much said aboot that

    ?????? People who come by plane have a visa. They are legally in the country.

    Actually a lot of the asylum seekers who come by plane are students. They like it so much here just before their student visa expires they apply for asylum. They invent some cock and bull story about how dangerous it is to go home. Hence the percentage of asylum seekers who fly in getting residency is low.

  21. 90,000 Vietnamese came to this country over a ten year period with very little fuss, mainly because a man that I hated for years (Malcolm Fraser) appealed to our better nature. That was leadership! Pathetic little Johnny Rotten dragged us down to his level and started this whole race baiting saga. I know realise that Fraser was the last of the decent Liberals, this lot is a disgrace and don’t deserve the name.

  22. The Lying Liberals don’t give a stuff about the “illegal boat people problem”. They just use it as a fear campaign. For you know what they say (to each other): We can’t give people a good reason to vote for us so we scare them into believing something terrible will happen if they don’t.

  23. Neil…. :shocK: did you say “cock and bull stories”….. oh, Neil…..let me count the ways….. here’s one for ya… have you heard the one about the 3 triple A ratings…. even with a deficit….. apparently it’s true…. have your self an awsomee day Neil…. no, really 😀

  24. Just sail a Boat load of 90 odd – the number does not really matter –
    into Geralton undetected.
    And set up camp on Aussie soil sounds like a subversave type of
    invasion to most true Aussies , if not you dont count.
    Been thru it so many times on this site but the bleeding hearts club band
    still dont get it. That is :
    ‘How does one board an aircraft in any country change flights in other
    countries and then land and then enter Indonesia with no Passport? ?’
    Because by the time they board their boat for Oz they have no ID.
    Give me the answer . Silence in this case is stupidity!

  25. Pathetic little Johnny Rotten dragged us down to his level and started this whole race baiting saga.”

    It was Julia Gillard who when in Opposition said ” another boat another failure” when one small boat turned up. She claimed Howard failed when one boat turned up.

    I reckon you lot are using asylum seekers for political purposes. You demonise anyone who does not have beliefs the same as yours.

  26. Howard used asylum seekers for one purpose and one purpose only – to justify himself and his kowtowing to George W. Bush on the supposed War on Terror. Look, Howard would proclaim..these people are terrorists, these people throw their children overboard. We were supposed to be *afraid, very afraid* of anyone coming from any Middle Eastern country..they were terrorists trying to sneak into the country, and once arrived expect jihad to be inflicted on the innocent Australian population.

    I remember reading one time about a university professor, lost an eye and part of one leg due to torture and his support of democracy. And what did Australia do to this person? We locked him up in a desert concentration camp..for years and for no other reason than he arrived by boat.

  27. We locked him up in a desert concentration camp..for years”

    They are being locked up for years now under a Greens/ALP government. Where are all the protestors??

    If Howard had 6,000 boat people in detention there would be marching in the streets.

  28. Does it matter at this stage why the people keep coming. The why cannot be changed.

    What does matter, in spite of thos PM re-introducing a much harsher version of Howard’s Pacific Solution, which is NOT working.

    There is the report from the three experts, the Houston Plan which now be put in place in its entirety.

    Yes, Abbott should revert to what occurred in the past, to that of bipartisanship.

    That boat in Geraldton yesterday was met not by fear of peoplke in the region, but it appears by many asking how they could help.

    The people came because of conditions in their own country.

    History has shown the number waxes and wanes. Yes, they can be stopped for short periods, but desperation takes over, thay find new ways of getting here.

    One forgets, as Neil reminds us, there was great public outcry of the actions of Mr. Howard. It was the public that demanded change, that Labor responded to.

    Yes, it was the voter that led to dismantling of some of the Pacific Solution. Saying that, decisions of the high court also was very clear in saying much of that plan was illegal.

    Also, I believe that Howard himself also believe the boats slowing down was temporary. If he did not, why did he go ahead with plans to spend hundred’s of millions of dollars on the facilities on Christmas Island.

  29. Neil, it’s a slightly different situation now due to the two rulings of the High Court. Overseas processing now means access to Australia’s legal system. Howard was doing a Gitmo with his excising of the islands, a deliberate attempt to stop asylum seekers gaining access to our courts therefore a deliberate attempt to stop them receiving justice.

    Having said that I disagree completely with Gillard’s decision to reopen Nauru and I believe that this was done with the sole purpose being politics with little concern to the wellbeing of the people involved. Gillard’s original idea of a regional solution to a regional problem is the only solution.

  30. And of course Abbott keeps up the rhetoric of demonising asylum seekers as “illegals” so as to gain public support for his unworkable turn back the boats policy. How many people believe this term..illegals..I would say a lot do. Perhaps the MSM would like to help to correct this impression by running lots of human interest stories about people escaping persecution..but I doubt it, it suits the politics to provide unwavering support for Abbott’s scaremongering.

  31. ?????

    You were having a go at Howard because he locked people up for years??

    What has changed?? Where do you think the 6,000 boat people Labor has in detention are being kept??

    Where are all the people who protested against Howard locking people up for years??

  32. The Lying Liberals use the situation to scare the public with inflammatory (and knowingly dishonest) rhetoric about our “borders” being threatened by an “influx of illegal boat people”.

    With the hate media as their megaphone, the Lying Liberals seek to gain power in this country so they can really stick it to average Aussies with SerfChoices, attacks on the environment, public services, and redistributing money from low-to-average earners to the Liberal backers at the Big End of Town. Then you’ve got plonkers like Nil of Sydney, Dirt and Voy’er going into cyberspace to spread Liberal Filth – Useful Idiots for the Lying Liberals, aiding in the agenda of wholesale rip-off of their own neighbours and loved ones.

  33. “…taking advantage, unfair advantage of our decency as a people,” Mr Abbott said.”
    There he goes, lying again, including himself in the decent person category.

  34. Neil has always acted like a village idiot but he’s OUR village idiot and we accept him. After all, he might be annoying but he means no harm. Dirk, though, is a village idiot with a nasty streak.

  35. “Another boat on the way. Another policy failure.” Julia Gillard, April 23, 2003.

    And you lot say it was the Libs that took political advantage of the issue? Gee, still have not a clue how the game is played. A new definition of political tragic!

  36. What gets me is the Libs have never fired Gillard’s statement in 2003 back at her.

    Might make a good line for the next news cycle to keep Labor off balance. Beer and skittles!

  37. Another boat on the way. The sky is about to fall in. Yes, another policy failure. As we now have what Abbott demanded, the fault lies with him, one would say.

    Time for both sides to go back to the negotiating table, one would think.

  38. What is in place now is not the policy of this PM. It is veritually Abbott’s policy. The table that Labor has been begging him to come back to for months. The invitaion is still open, I believe.

    Yes, the PM di say “game on”. What did the big boy, Abbott do, he took his bat and ball and left the field. Definitely not up to challengers from this gustsy and fiesty PM.

    All he is capable of, is carping from the sidelines,. .

    17 atttempts of trying to put fast broadband in place, is not proof, that going down that path was not going to work. If not proof, what is it? I would say, it was never going to work.

  39. The Libs set the tone by refusing to compromise or to consider other options – it had to be Nauru or nothing. Here was Abbott saying that he could have Nauru up and running within a week but when this was investigated it was discovered that the old centre was being used for a school, with the rest of it almost completely dismantled.

  40. Was it just ‘Nauru’?

    Anyway…I sit on neither side on this issue. A policy that transforms a perceived liability into an asset is possible…but alas.

  41. Still cannot show grace under any circumstances.

    “………….Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says he also lobbied the Chinese for annual talks with Australia, and welcomes the deal struck by Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

    Under the historic agreement signed by Ms Gillard and China’s new Premier Li Keqiang in Beijing on Tuesday, three types of annual ‘strategic dialogue’ will be held between prime ministers, foreign ministers, and economic ministers.

    The only other countries with similar agreements with China are Russia, the UK and Germany.

    ‘When I was in Beijing last July I very strongly urged that there be an annual leadership dialogue at the top level of business and politics between Australia and China,’ Mr Abbott told Gold FM on Wednesday.

    ‘It seems like the idea has come into fruition, so it’s great.’

    Mr Abbott backed Ms Gillard’s delegation to China, saying ‘I think we have somewhat neglected the relationship’.

    ‘It’s good she’s now making an effort to put it back on a good footing.’..

    http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=862200

  42. “Still cannot show grace under any circumstances.”

    It was Gillard who abused Abbott while on her overseas trip breaking the protocol that you leave domestic politics behind when you go overseas. She called him an economic simpleton while overseas.

    As usual you believe what you want to believe

  43. Neil, are you really as dense or blind as you make out to be. I refuse to believe you are.

    It was Bishop that tore into the PM and her relationship with Asian countries, before the PM had even opened her mouth.

    As for the comment, that Abbott talking like an economic simpleton. She was only replying to his Cyprus comment.

    I believe the days are long past, that this PM will ignore the shit that comes out of the mouth of Abbott. If he talks rot, as he usually does, he will be challenged.

    Abbott has been abusing that convention , that one does not run the government down overseas, since day one.

    Yes, politics is a hard dirty game, if Abbott cannot stand the heat, I suggest he gets out of the kitchen. Always whines when he gets some of his own back,.

    Yes, the PM has been taking it for over three years. She has decided it is time to return some of the server.

  44. As for the comment, that Abbott talking like an economic simpleton. She was only replying to his Cyprus comment.

    It is protocol to wait till you get back from the overseas trip.

  45. How do you explain that interview in China with Bishop on the first day, doing all in her power to undermine any chance of sucess of the PM. From the results we have seen, Bishop, thankfully failed.

    Abbott should not have made his inane and stupid comment. The PM by the way did NOT call him a simpleton.

    We had in the past, had both Abbott and Hockey, while overseas, talking the Australian economy down. Never heard any complaint about that.

    No, it appears that the PM must at all times, play by the rules. It appears it is OK for Abbott to break all the rules and conventions. The law does not apply to him, he is above it.

    Something wrong there.

  46. Yes, Neil, protocol applies to both sides. Now, that all conventions and protocols have been discarded by Abbott, he cannot expect things to be different, if we are unlucky enough for him to become PM.

  47. The simple answer, I have read, is that in some cases, people smugglers supply fake identification, that is removed from them when they land in Indonesia. Some say, the smugglers reuse those documents. What is your point.

    Maybe, if one has fled their country because of political perscutiion, having proof of one’s identifciation to put those they left behind at risk.

    Indonesia does not welcome these people. I also believe there could be free movement among Musem countries. Of that I am not sure.

    The bottom line is that they are not welcome in those countries, and they are not obligated to take them in.

    Why do we, a wealthy country, that can find a place for all that come, expect a poor, overcrowded country to make room for all, while we close our borders. Something wrong with a thinking, I suspect
    .

    Since World War 2, we have taken in millions in, which has led to greater prosperity we have today.

    Does one know, that many coming now, are not uneducated, unskilled workers, but highly educated professionals. People this country badly needs.

    Also the allegations of throwing documents away, has not been supported by out immigration authority. Another urban myth, I suspect.

    See, the question you ask is not simple. it has many answers, some more complicated than others.

  48. Thanks for the link Bacchus. These persecuted people need our help, but apparently that’s too much to ask.

  49. Voyager, and

    Asked a simple question – can any of you give a truthfull answer?
    It is a critical ingredient to the discussion.

    And Voyager and

    REFER to post @ 3.45am 10/4.
    Can I make it any simpler for you?

    You’re right Fed up, I missed it too..so here it is again..

    Just sail a Boat load of 90 odd – the number does not really matter –
    into Geralton undetected.
    And set up camp on Aussie soil sounds like a subversave type of
    invasion to most true Aussies , if not you dont count.
    Been thru it so many times on this site but the bleeding hearts club band
    still dont get it. That is :
    ‘How does one board an aircraft in any country change flights in other
    countries and then land and then enter Indonesia with no Passport? ?’
    Because by the time they board their boat for Oz they have no ID.
    Give me the answer . Silence in this case is stupidity!

    Well actually these people did not actually invade Geraldton..I’m sure that my girlfriend Di would have let me know if they had. Fear not, although our naval forces do occasionally miss a boat..they can’t be everywhere all of the time, this is a rare occurrence. **Disclaimer for Voyager, son is 10 year RAN and on the patrol boats.

    The answer is that for the best part the people smugglers and/or Indonesian authorities confiscate people’s ID. This is well documented. And who is to say that these people originally arrived in Indonesia via plane? Evidence suggests the contrary, they arrive overland via the well known people smuggling routes.

  50. So I gather that Howard massively failed when a boat nearly made it to shore during his stewardship? And Bromwyn Bishop blatantly lied about them not asking for asylum when they got to shore.

    The right wing hypocrisy just keeps on rolling on with nary a pause for breath as they go from one hypocrisy to the next.

  51. I’m singling out one in particular that got in undetected and when the spokesperson for the refugees, who spoke good English, said to the effect they wanted asylum in Australia. It is a requirement for refugees to ask for asylum on reaching the country in which they seek asylum.

    Bishop the older put out a lie to the media that the refugees had not asked for asylum so could be sent back. Witnesses came forward and I believe a Custom’s official as well said that the refugees had distinctly asked for asylum.

    On getting a backlash for her lie Bromwyn did what all Liberal liars do when caught out, and Howard most of all, blame the public service for giving her incorrect information.

  52. Pingback: Australian opposition party says asylum-seeker bridging visa system is out of control | theinvisiblenetwork

  53. I looked up “Hirdstorm” on Google and couldn’t find anything. Does anyone know what Megalogenis is talking about?

    PS. There is no carbon tax, only a carbon price. If Megalogenis is still trying to infer that Gillard lied over carbon pricing, he should be ashamed of himself.

  54. Still lying!

    Paul Syvret, Courier Mail, 09 July 2013

    …Abbott was at it again on the weekend during his “Captain Hornblower” interview with Barrie Cassidy on Insiders.

    The man who would be PM – but apparently not a naval admiral – flipped, flopped and floundered his way through a non-explanation of how his disgraceful “turn back the boats” policy would (or won’t as the case may be) work.

    This in the face of warnings from the Australian Navy that it was bad and dangerous policy and some rather curt objections from Indonesia (not that Abbott raised the topic at a recent meeting with President Yudhoyono, of course).

    The man just can’t help himself, dropping reference in the middle of all this to “illegal” boat arrivals knowing full well that, under international conventions to which Australia is a signatory, it is perfectly lawful for someone to arrive without prior authorisation and request asylum.

    Never let the facts get in the way of a quick bit of dog-whistle politics, though.

    It is the same with his scare campaign on carbon pricing, where wild fantasy and prophesies of Armageddon have been Abbott’s stock in trade, aided and abetted by (to borrow a wonderful phrase from former PM Paul Keating) pre-Copernican obscurantists like shock jock Alan Jones.

    Forget telling the truth, instead claim that the cost of a lamb roast will soar to $100, whole towns and industries will disappear and that our entire economy will be laid waste.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/why-julia-gillard-didnt-lie-about-her-carbon-tax-plans-before-election/story-e6frerdf-1226421929786

  55. No Cuppa – George Megathingy (© Min 2011) was making the point that any other “lies” whether real, alleged, or perceived, pale into insignificance when stood up against the lie(s) that took us into the illegal Iraq war as the deputy sherriff to good ol’ George Dubbya…

  56. I think you must be thinking of someone else Bacchus. 🙂 I wasn’t in that debate. But I agree about the gravity of Howard sending our country on an act of aggression on very dodgy premises.

  57. Turnbull openly “lying” about NBN

    Well I hope the right wingers are incensed over this since they so often (falsely) go on about the dishonesty of the government and Gillard in particular.

    Here is direct proof of not just Turnbull telling a huge lie many times, but Abbott also directly lying to school children and other groups.

    Looking forward to the right wingers disowning these two liars and making up derogatory names for them so as to tag them as liars.

  58. ME @8.54pm, I hope you’re not holding your breath. Turnbull is a lying toerag and a buffoon which was exposed during the Grech affair.

    He has hubris, arrogance and mendacity in spades amply demonstrated while he was LOTO and now getting a comprehensive airing wrt NBN.

    Given his history both as a minister in the Rodent government and as LOTO I find it extraordinary that so many people think he would make a better PM than Liealot, when in essence they are both cut from the same mendacious, incompetent cloth.

  59. scaper, yes it is indeed time for Abbott to go back to that negioating table and allow the entire Housten Plan to be put into operatiion.

    The reintroduction of the Pacific Solution, which Abbott demanded is not working.

    I believe the plan included Manuus and Narua, as a stop gap action, to be only temporary until the whole plan was up and running. In fact, that was said in the paln.

    I also believe the three expert believe that the only way to get Abbott;s cooperation was to include both Islands in any plan.

    We now have a harsher scheme than in Howard’s day. Time for Abbott to be man enough to say he was wrong, and yes the new action needs to be tried.

    The truth is, even the hosting plan has no certainty of being successful, but it is a beginning.

    No one is happy with the prospect of the Malysiian Soulution, , but most realize that people getting on boats is not acceptable.

    Abbott’s simple answer, to a complicated problem, of turning back the boats is laughable. It will not work.

    The situation is so dire, that we are forced to take the less offencable action.

    Yes, it is time for bipartsan action. It is also time for the Greens to come to the party. They could focus on ensuring that Malaysia protects all put in their care. Their view of saying we must take all, is not viable.

    By the way, that boat is suppose to have hit rocks off Java. Not Australian waters.

  60. Hey, you lot claim 400 or so pieces of legislation (regulation) being passed yet Labor can not solve this perceived problem without Abbott’s cooperation?

  61. No PM has the power to get all leglisation through. Even Howard had to bow to the Democrats.

    Yes, when he gained power of both houses, he did have that power. Look at the mess he made. WorkChoices for starters.

    No, scaper, Abbott does have the power in this case, to prevent an acceptable plan to be put in operation.

    The PM has gone as far as she can, in giving into Abbott. His plan has not worked.

    Time to listen to the three experts. Nothing to lose from where I am sitting.

    Trouble is, Abbott and Morrison believe they have something to gain by boats keep coming, with the lost of life they incur.

    Yes, scaper, the Greens should also be rethinking their position.

    There is no nice answer to this problem. We can do better than we are now.

    For starters, we could immediately up the numbers we take from the region, taking the pressure off the refugees need to get on the boats. Just give them a little hope of a better life.

  62. Hey, I’m in no camp on the solving of the “perceived” problem. In fact, I watch on in bemusement at all sides using these people as political footballs, especially when there are deaths at sea.

    But they are just playing to their supporters…says it all for me!

  63. scaper, the problems are not preceived. They are real, and affect peoples lives.

    The people affected are not responsible for the position they find themselves.

    I find no amusement in the situation at all. I hate the way some are playing politics with the lives of asylum seekers.

    All I have said, it is time for politics to be set aside, and all sit down at that table, until they come to an appropriate solution.

  64. There will be no sitting at the table on this or any other issue. For this to occur all sides must admit fault…no room for that in the present political climate.

    Abbott is wedged and so is Gillard…self wedged would be the appropriate term in my view.

  65. scaper, what has the PM done by going ahead with Manus and Narua. Does not giving only bridging visa’s also count. How far do you expect the PM has to go, to get Abbott onside.

    It is not the the PM being stubborn, it is Abbott.

    It is time for Abbott to do some backing down. Most of what is in place now, is what he demanded. It has not worked.

  66. In a round about way the other day Ruddock stated that Abbott will not stop the boats.

    And of this I’m certain.

    At the first sinking or deaths under Abbott there will be either excuses and/or silence from the very same people who are currently pouring out this faux concern for them, a concern they never had under the previous Liberal government.

    When the boats keep coming it will be blamed on Labor and other circumstances as there are no greater crabs, excuse makers and blame shifters than the Liberals and their supporters.

  67. The Illegalls throw ID overboard that is the most common explaination
    given.
    As good devout CW’s following the episle of Labor teachings please
    take note of my warning : Boat people is an Election loser for labor.
    You have been warned.

  68. voyager can you tell us what is the point of your comment, even if true.

    I will ignore the fact that such allegations have been disputed.

    I will say this, being stranded in some Muslim countries, it could be prudent to disposed of any identification, to protect those whom have been left behind.

    Back in 1952 my mother adopted my brother. He was the son of a woman who fled a communist country. A woman who left children behind, who literally had a price on their heads.

    She adopted the baby out and returned to her own country to track down the rest of her family.

    The authorities to ensure the safety of that boy, ensured he was adopted to a family in the bush. They did not consider it was safe for him to remain in the city.

    My mother became friendly with a person from the same country., She showed him the adoption papers.

    When he seen the name, he began to panic, telling my mother to destroy the papers, if not, put them in a place no one could find them. He believed the adoption papers, with the family name on it, putting the mother and family in danger.

    So once again voyager, why keep bringing this up. What has it got to do with asylum seekers not being genuine. If what you say ios true, it could be proof that the are telling the truth.

    Not too sure how many identification papers these people would have. Not sure that in many areas, that birth certificate even exist.

    What is the point you are trying to make.

  69. voyager, I do not believe it is about being a vote winner. Abbott obviously thinks it is, and does ot care how many die to keep the status quo.

    I thought it was about justice, fairness and giving people a fair go.

  70. Philip Ruddock stated that Abbott won’t stop the boats so I guess that means Abbott will be out on his ear within 12 months as they keep coming.

    Don’t hold your breath for the right winger hypocrites here to highlight Abbott’s failure on asylum seekers, along with a whole string of other failures that are queuing up.

  71. Abbott’s NBN is a FAIL…..MSMLNP can’t do the Ruddstoration meme anymore as a look over there….. so they have gone with the only thing they have left… the boat people meme 🙄 ……. look over there.. is that Mal p*wning Tony on a policy or is it just another NO. Can’t wait for the MSMLP convention in July…… one wonders whom they will pre-select for the seat of Warringah for the up coming election. 😆

  72. ME, looks like Ruddock is finally attempting to be honest.

    The truth is that people won’t stop trying to come here as long as there is war, civil unrest, turmoil and famine in their countries. They want to a safe place to live and work.

    They don’t want to live in constant terror, not knowing if they will be the next ones to be slaughtered.

    I think that too many complacent arseholes in this country are only too happy to use these poor wretches as tools to gain political power.

    It is time for a bipartisan approach to asylum seekers attempting to reach Australia in boats; it is not time to punish people who have already been brutalised into fleeing for their lives.

    And it is time that those same f*cken complacent arseholes acknowledge that the countries which house the majority of the refugees from oppression, war and starvation are the very countries which can ill afford to house and feed extra millions.

    If we are not prepared to accept asylum seekers in this country, then we have a moral obligation to offer as much help as we can to the countries actually doing the heavy lifting.

    As a country, our behaviour toward these unfortunates is deplorable. It’s well past time to put as much pressure as we can on all politicians to get off their collective bums and do the right thing!

  73. Abbott has made another huge unfunded commitment to be implemented in his first budget. He has promised in posters and letters to Veterans groups that he will index DFRDB, the pension scheme I’m on, at the same rate as the aged and service pensions. This is a huge cost, which is why Howard never did it in the years he was heavily lobbied over it, despite rolling in money, and Rudd followed by Gillard refused to commit to it.

    I can already tell you how it will go.

    Abbott with now over $100 billion in unfunded liabilities will promise even more right up to election day. The first thing he will do is hold a shonky Audit Commission, then declare that because of the terrible economy left by Labor, that really isn’t terrible, he can’t make his promises, but if you elect him next time he’ll keep them.

  74. ME, all his promises have the rider, that after the election there will be enquiries, which will establish whether he goes ahead or not.

    He intends to have something along the line of what happened in Queensland. Maybe it will be Costello, who knows.

    Therefore it is a waste of time to take any notice of what he puts forwarded as policy. We already have them saying, they cannot afford any money for Gonski, and anyway they like the present system.

    Allowing for that, the only thing we need from Abbott is a list of what he intends to cut, or demolished.

  75. Fed up, in other words he has no intention of honouring any election promises with the probable exception of handing back the dole to the wealthy.

    I believe that we should be labelling all middle class welfare as the dole, which is really what it is and should therefore be means tested and taxed heavily.

    Wealthy recipients should henceforth be stigmatised as dole bludgers and possibly welfare cheats. It’s more accurate and may make holding their pudgy graspers out for public money a little less acceptable.

  76. Jane, every promise of Abbott’s has a caveat on it. That delivering it will rely on a product or other study done on it.

    That is except for his outlandish maternity allowance to the wealthy.

    Some have up to 3 studies.

    Is this a means of getting around the need for fully costed programmes.

    Fully costed to me means, the actual cost of each programme, not whether there is money ther to pay for it.

    Much say, it is smarter than core and non core promises.

    Also makes it hard to accuse him of lying, when be breaks all in front of him.

    What we need to do, is insist that Abbott tells us what he will be cutting. As for promises, they are not worth the paper they are printed on, even if printed in blood.

    The PM has come out strongly in her presentation of the new education funding and aims.

    Like to comment on the fact, yes there has been a cut in some tertiary education, but the funding is still trending up, but at a slower rate.

    Pyne, on Meet the Press once again did not answer questions ab=nd spoke a lot of waffle.

  77. Just like to make a point when it comes to education. The current funding arrangements are broken. Pyne does not agree and wants to say with the status quo.

    The present funding arrangements where a product of Howard’s, that were created with the intention of encouraging kids away from public schools, into the private system.

    That has been clearly explained why this morning.

  78. Fed up @12.20pm, precisely. I believe they will do a bogie set of costings which will go unscrutinised by the Murdochsm, followed by a raft bogie “audits”, followed by hand wringing at the appalling debt Labor has got racked up for the grandchildren to pay and the cheerful announcement that they will not be honouring any promises except handing out the dole to the well off.

    All pulled off with no blame attached because they can blame Labor and the sheeples will nod their heads and believe they’ve never had it so good Gina’s @$2/hr.

  79. “demonise these unfortunates for political purposes?”

    Oh for Christs sake…Unfortunates with the means to travel past other UN Charter signers in hopes of “greener” shores…Most being economic in nature not fleeing for their live’s…Poverty is not a legal reason to seek asylum bleeding hearts…try to grasp this concept for a minute. Thousands languish across the globe in real need and don’t fret, they are mostly NOT WHITE….You can still have your utopia and follow the law. The rule of law is what seems to be taking a back seat in all of this for the emotional catch phrases, votes and cheap labor.

  80. I missed this one from the ABC but it’s certainly worth posting..

    The Liberal Party has posted an ad on social media linking the arrival of asylum seekers to street crime in western Sydney.

    The banner was posted on the Liberal Party of Australia’s Facebook page yesterday and was ‘liked’ by more than 680 people.

    “Under Labor, crime is out of control in western Sydney,” the ad states.

    “If Labor can’t even control our borders, then how can they control street crime in our suburbs?”

    Accompanying the text is an image of a boat at sea and a picture of police crime scene tape.

    While some comments on the Facebook page supported the ad, others were critical.

    “I’m a Liberal supporter but this advert is awful,” one person wrote.

    “Putting boat people and crime in the same sentence, another Scott Morrison dog whistle,” another wrote.

    Others mentioned that crime in Sydney’s west was the responsibility of Barry O’Farrell’s state Liberal government.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-15/liberal-party-ad-links-asylum-seekers-to-street-crime/4630088

  81. Min that is continuing a trend of blaming the Labor Federal government for what are clearly State responsibilities, and it’s what the Liberals and their supporters have always done since day dot, with Howard being the master at it, blame shift.

    The other area that is a State responsibility and is being blame shifted onto the Federal government is electricity prices. O’Farrell is the worst offending.

    As we see the Liberal States fail on every front we also see them blame shift their failures to previous Labor governments and mostly the Federal government.

    Liberals don’t know the meaning of the word responsibility.

  82. The last election resulted in a hung parliament. Both major parties had the same opportunity to join with the few Independents and Other Parties to form government. The depths to which Tony Abbott said he would go to be Prime Minister (“I’ll do anything to get into power”) apparently did not impress and a stable workable and legal government of the ALP/minority party/Independents was never-the-less formed and has continued to work legally since. The Lib/Nats have allowed Tony Abbott to disrespect the voice and votes of the Australian people as he continues to call this government illegal and tries to undemine it’s workings and bring it down. He and his colleagues have continued to call into disrespect the office of Prime Minister, even though it is an office which he lusts after. He said that, if the Lib/Nats are not voted into governement at the next election with an obvious majority, he will not respect our voting intentions, but will punish us by making us go back for a second try, with a double dissolution, at great cost, and by implication, till we get it right, in his favour. He and his party continue to perpetuate the lie that we vote for a Prime Minister. Australians do not. We vote in political parties and the Prime Minister is selected from the successful parliamentarians. This happens on both sides of parliament, with frequent change of leader. Let’s get down to the bare basics. The Lib/Nats are happy to be led by a man of great ambition, lots of political cunning but very little statesmanship. He has stooped very low to try to undermine our Government and the very political processes which keep our our parliamentary democracy healthy and vibrant and envyable. Regardless of whether one likes the present Government or not, do we want this legal, working Parliament to continue till the next election, or do we want to vote in a political group who have shown that they have no respect for our voting decisions except when we vote for them? How much do the Lib/Nats respect and believe in our parliamentary system? Following on to that, have we become so used to our way of life and democratic processess that we take it for granted that we will always have governments that respect and uphold our voting traditions and decisions, as the present government does? Mr Abbott would have us vote him and his ilk into power. Can we believe he will lead a democratic government in the interests of us, the Australian people, or will he and his partners only work to keep power. The Lib/Nats would have us believe that the ALP government is only self-serving. Together with the Independents and minority parties, the workings of this Government show this charge to be false lies. Mr Abbott has done much to call the profession of Parliamentarian into disrepute. No wonder we feel unsettled in our everyday lives with his constant drip, dripping of mis-information and negative self-serving propoganda.

  83. Agreed, Michael. It’s great, isn’t it, to know that people like Millicent are well able to see what is happening in Canberra and how our Parliament is doing a good job in spite of all the mis-information put out by the NLP and their News Ltd supporters.

    I sat at our beachside dog walkers’ cafe this morning and listened to a bunch of women commenting on Tony Abbott’s bullying dishonesty about the PM and how she hasn’t been given a fair go. So the Coalition, Murdoch and co are not fooling everyone in Oz by any means.

    For someone who is supposed to be so widely unpopular Julia Gillard still has a lot of supporters out there. Real fans in fact.

  84. Another policy announcement tonight by Mr. Hunt. As usual, full of holes.

    That is Direct Action.

    Jones on Lateline is having fun with Hunt.

    Another joke.

  85. Tony Abbott sure has a crust
    To be asking ,”Who do you trust”?
    From a self confessed liar
    Whose done nothing to inspire
    All Aussies should treat with disgust.

    Abbott’s really no man of conviction
    Careless handling of truth an affliction
    Blends lies with the facts
    Credibility lacks
    With his truth being stranger than fiction.

  86. Broadcast: 18/04/2013
    Reporter: Tony Jones
    The Opposition’s spokesman on Climate Action, Greg Hunt, discusses the Coalition’s Direct Action plan and its intention to scrap the carbon tax within six months of winning government…

    “T: Well I haven’t said that we should walk away from the UN process at all. I think that we need to be part of that. But where a real global agreement will come is when China and the United States reach a point of common position and when that’s backed up with India and the EU. Later this year, Australia will assume the chair of the G20. We are in a unique position to try to bring together what I call the G4 as the basis for a global agreement.

    TONY JONES: On climate change. Now, that presumably would be a job for the Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, if he’s Prime Minister by then.

    GREG HUNT: Well it’s the whole of the Government led by the Prime Minister, of course.

    TONY JONES: That would actually be an interesting one because that would turn the climate change sceptic, Tony Abbott, into a global deal-maker on climate change.

    GREG HUNT: Look, Australia has a great opportunity and Tony is committed to working towards our targets. He’s committed on the science. He’s committed to achieving our international objectives. But where we have a real fight with the Government’s obviously over the carbon tax.

    TONY JONES: Sure. We’ll come to that. But I’m just saying, if this is your vision, Tony Abbott will have to lead it in the G20. Is that the way it is?

    GREG HUNT: Well I think that he’s an outstanding negotiator. When you are with him, you see this sense of somebody who’s got a great respect for other people, for different views. There’s a long track here and this is something which we could begin on our watch, whoever’s in government in Australia – I’m not presuming anything there, but whoever is in government will have an opportunity as chair of the G20 to help bring China and the United States, India and the EU together and I think that is a fundamentally important role in dealing with global emissions……”

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3740397.htm

    Outstanding negotiator???????????????????????

    Was told throughout the interview, that they were not talking about Labor, but his scheme.

  87. Pingback: The Topic of ‘Boat People’ in Australia It’s not the number of Refugee’s but their method of arrival that is the main concern. | seventhvoice

  88. Tony Abbott’s deception about asylum seekers displays such disregard and disrespect for the community.

    I keep hoping that more people will wake up to what a destructive prime minister he would be and what a destructive government he would lead!

  89. On Sunday it will be a conservative world life will be wonderful ….the left will be irrelevant a it should be

  90. peter, all Sunday will reveal, is the government might be elected. One cannot even guarantee that. Remember 2010.

    The door on this election will closed, and one prepares for the next.

    Could be three years, but as Abbott has said, if he does not get his way, it could be in six months.

    One runs the race, if they lose, they pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and train for the next one. Nothing is permanent. Nothing lasts forever, even losing. Always another day.

  91. Stuff off Wayne, what a very lame attempt at a “look over there”.

    If you want to go on about an alleged lie that wasn’t then you must be livid over Abbott and the massive lies and back flips he’s engaged in since winning government?

    Or are you just another right wing hypocrite?

  92. A troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

    This thread dates back from before the election. This brain-dead piece of $#!* fits the definition perfectly. Ignore the trolls Mö, or at least always refer to such idiots in the 3rd person only 😉

  93. It is very easy when you come across a low life like Abbott to get focused just on him, but we must remember that it is all of them, not just Abbott. Voting Abbott out will get us no where, we need to change our present political system.
    The LNP, Labor & the Greens need to go. We need to be voting for what we want, not who is the best of a bad bunch! It would not be difficult to organise a round table of the people who will get us what we want. Similar round tables can be organised in each state, The two party system is not working, it is broken. Not only that but our present PM & the government is illegal.
    We have local councils acting as a government, they are corporations, just like the government is. They have no legal right to tax (rates) us on our land. But you see what happens if you refuse to pay your rates!!! It is about time that ALL Australians stood together & say NO MORE. But instead we say “she’ll be right mate” Well she won’t be right mate, & the longer we leave it, the harder it becomes, & the more dangerous it becomes. Sooner or later there is going to be a revolution, we need to choose between a forceful peacefull one now, or a violent one later.
    Keith.

  94. Oh dear, no one here! Again!

    I have found it hard to transfer my loyalty to Michael’s new site at AIMN. It’s too busy for this old brain! Who would have thought I could become conservative to old ways!

  95. Hi Patricia – perhaps after Easter, I’ll try to fire up some interest in Whispers’ Cellar again. It would be nice to have a place for old friends to meet in a less frenzied place…

    You don’t have a conversation starter in you do you Florence? 😉

  96. Not at the moment. I seem to be all burnt out. Just keeping up is exhausting.

    Listening to Labor, especially Bowen, and tonight Wong, I believe Labor is moving from reacting, going along with Abbott to a more proactive stance.

    I feel we know little about Shorten, but he did do a good job of delivering NDIS. Which by the way, Abbott claimed at Victorian Liberal Conference was the work of his minister.

    Labor’s reply to Hockey’s taxation paper is a good beginning. Bowen hinted that there is a paper on affordable housing in the wind. A good beginning.

    Things, they are a changing.

  97. The conversation we cannot ignore is Hockey’s “rethink” A con with the aim of wedging Labor, softening us up for the kill in the budget.

    “On Monday morning, Joe Hockey, the Australian Treasurer, released Re:think, a tax discussion paper. It is no accident that he did so at the Australian Council of Social Services office. Let’s hope ACOSS don’t fall for the 3 card trick that is the tax discussion paper.

    Given the widespread opposition to the 2014 Budget, the one percent have drawn an important lesson from that debacle – consult with the intended victims before launching attacks on poor people and workers. That is what the tax discussion paper is about. This Damascene conversion to talking to people begs the question – is a tax shit sandwich no longer a shit sandwich if it has consultation sprinkles on top? To ask the question is to answer it

    http://enpassant.com.au/2015/03/30/of-shit-sandwiches-tax-reform-and-taxing-the-rich/

    “IN launching its national “conversation” about tax reform, the Abbott government is caught between the policy imperative of “leading” and the political requirement of “listening”.

    A further complication is that Prime Minister Tony Abbott is seeking to wedge Bill Shorten, paving the way to blame him if no real progress can be made in fundamentally recalibrating the tax system.

    What we are witnessing in this first stage of the “conversation” is that the government is reluctant to be seen to be “leading”. It’s hinting and nudging, but playing coy about what it believes is required. Inevitably, this makes the beginning of the debate quite confused.

    The government is starting the sentence – “we need to fix the tax system” – but then leaving it hanging. Is this some super-sophisticated tactic, or is it not sure itself where things will head”

    http://citynews.com.au/2015/grattan-a-confused-start-to-governments-tax-conversation/#comments

  98. I missed your April Fool’s day comment! We should have made much more of it here at the Cafe! I promise I will next year. Though, I’ve been having problems with remembering to do things I’ve promised myself and others. Don’t tell me to write them down! I do that all the time, and then find I can’t remember what my memos are reminding me to do! That’s if I can read my writing in the lovely big A4 sized diary I’ve bought myself to help me keep track of where I’ve been, what I’ve done and what I think about it all. Which recently hasn’t been much. Doing, or thinking, that is. But I’ve been very happy!

    So, Miglo, promise me that you or Carol will, or Florence or Bacchus or LOVO will prod me into action sometime in the New Year, 2016. Maybe we could challenge Neil to come out of his Sydney hideaway and demonstrate some foresight, or even do some rearview mirror stuff on 2015 to jeer and mock, doing yet another strut across our stage.

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