What if . . . ?

We well remember the drama surrounding the 2010 election result. In the end, it came down to Independents Windsor and Oakeshott siding with Labor for two reasons: Labor’s National Broadband Network (NBN) and the promise from Julia Gillard that she would not disrupt Parliament by calling an early election.

Given that a number of Liberal backbenchers are vying for the NBN to come to their electorates and we see that the government will serve its full term, Winsdor and Oakeshott made the right call.

It’s my gut feeling that the 2013 election might be a repeat of 2010.

Let’s assume it is. And let’s assume it again comes down to a couple of Independents having the deciding vote.

What would they vote on and why?

I realise it is difficult to answer given that the Coalition have not released much in the way of policies, so we can only go on what we know so far.

BTW, thanks to Bilko for suggesting the topic.

English: Rob Oakeshott in Queens Terrace Cafe,...

Rob Oakeshott (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

152 comments on “What if . . . ?

  1. I think guaranteed funding details for Gonski reforms into the future. It is an area of importance to all and one that requires funding certainty. The coalition have said they will not do anything about it for at least 2 years. Labor are committed to it but need to firm up funding into the future.

  2. I was also going to say the Gonski reforms.

    I think the Morgan polls are the most reliable, and they have Labor and the Coalition neck and neck. Even then, there has to be a few per cent that are swayed towards the Coalition because of all the support they get from the MSM. The government has done little wrong, in my opinion, and I think they will just wait for the Libs to slip up, as they inevitably will. There’s only so much imcompetence the MSM can cover up.

    And then there’s Ashbygate. Who knows how that will play out.

  3. I sincerely think a hung parliament is our best possible outcome .. I think Oakeshott & Windsor have been a grounding element the past couple of years where the Opposition has done its level best to reduce parliament to nothing more than a shitfight. On a positive note NDIS, Gonski. But I’d like to see fairer treatment of asylum seekers & less targeting of marginal groups like the unemployed & sole parents get a look I as well.

  4. Bob Lloyd,

    I expect we’ll hear a lot more on Gonski and NDIS funding in the budget. The interesting part of this exercise is what will be cut to fit them into the budget. Is this why all the banshee noises re “rich bastards” super lurks and perks is coming from the right-whingers?

  5. Bacchus

    I am hoping that the structural changes spoken of by the PM in her National Press Gallery speech will address these two funding concerns. I realise a lot of negotiation is needed to get states on board, especially the conservatives, but I am hopeful. The “right-whingers” (as you say) will scream “class warfare” as they work out ways to avoid paying a decent amount of tax.

  6. Unless Tony opens his mouth and puts his foot in it during the final run up, Labor is going down…

  7. Migs, the Independents also didn’t trust Liealot. I also find it very amusing how many Liars MPs are squealing for the NBN to come to their electorates.

    You’d think they’d be spruiking Liars Party spin to persuade people the NBN is an expensive white elephant. Seems like a lot of Liars MPs don’t believe their own propaganda.

    Sparta, you should stop reading Newspolls. Anything associated with Rupert stinks to high heaven and is crooked to the core. and as Migs has pointed out, Liealot is a loose cannon who’s bound to shoot himself in the foot and Sloppy is no better.

  8. Another hung parliament is not going to help the asylum seekers. IIRC, Oakeshott was one of those supporting the new Pacific Solution.

  9. Tracy said “I think Oakeshott & Windsor have been a grounding element the past couple of years….”
    I watched Oakeshott give his diliberations on why he made the decicion to side with the Julia …… long wasn’t it….. he was very detailed…….. we waited with baited breath…… how many pollies do you remember that went to that level of ‘pain’ to let us know ‘the why’s’…… and even though we knew the ultimate outcome we still went “phew” at the end….. on ya Rob 😯 ……. and theres the ‘rub’….. is he an Australian for honest politics (please explain 😕 ) or a grandstander …. 😕 ….. I do hope he gets another run….. and I do hope he spits it straight out next time…. 😉 crikey … and I do think that Tony Windsor and Rob have been very grounding…………………… for the LOTO 😆

  10. LOVO, what if it is found that Geelong’s 2007 premiership win was drug assisted? I have some Geelong friends who are, simply, shitting themselves. 🙂

  11. Sparta, there is a very good chance that Tony will put his foot in it..his PR team cannot spend the entire election campaign doing nothing but relying on pics of Tony in various attire holding various accoutrements guns/carving knives/dead fish/babies..eventually he’ll have to answer a question..then he’s a goner.

  12. Silkworm, already the uneasiness is gathering about where is the money going to come from. Simplistic answers such as “cuts and “stop the waste” then begs the question..cuts from where?

  13. Shit it just popped into my head, a scene of a hard hat wearing Abbott in red sequinned speedos and hi-vis vest juggling a gun, carving knife, a dead fish and baby during the election campaign to the cheers and whoops of the entire Canberra press gallery.

  14. Here it is Sunday morning and I have switched into Abbotts news service for my weekly serve of LABOR BASHING. Paul Kelly asked Julie Bishop a question and she admitted that K> Rudd keeps her well informed on matters. Now, Julia is out of the Country and Rudd starts his campaign against her, yet he stands up day after day and professes his loyalty to her and the Party. How the f…… hell can the Labor Party get ahead when they have people like K. Rudd and a couple of his cronies (and we all have a fair idea who they are) keep undermining the PM and everything she does. I, for one thought Rudd was the best thing since padded bras when he came along but his evident hatred of JG is beyond a joke. I do agree that the Labor Party will do well at the next Election or MSM like the ABC, Channel 9. Channel 7 and Sky News would not be continually spewing out their hatred of everything Labor. Now that I have had my say I look forward to all other comments, especially Treeman.

  15. Nice one Migs Menzies once answered why he was adopting Labor policies and the simple answer was because half the people voted for it. So if a few non brain dead liberals can convince Tones to change his stance on a particular policy that he opposes that appears very popular. Yes I know it is a big ask, but his immortal words once again “circumstances change”, could come into play and we all know he will do anything to get hold of the keys to Kirribilli /the Lodge whatever.

  16. Tracey, with over 300 pieces of legislation passed, it puts a lie to Abbott’s claim that a hung parliament is “dysfunctional”.

    My opinion is that should it occur that there is once again the prospect of a hung parliament, that Windsor and Oakeshott will once again side with Labor. Apart from the NBN, the other reason for siding with Labor which was expressed mostly by Windsor but also Oakeshott, is that Labor was the party most likely to run a full term. Abbott has since then repeatedly stated that he will call/manufacture a DD election in the shortest time possible if he wins the coming election. Heaven help us should Abbott gain control of both Houses.

  17. Mig. Oakeshott and Windsor are quite rightly political history. Their political career was finished when they sided with Gillard in 2010.
    Spin and BS is the hallmark of Labor/Independents/Greens government since 2010.
    Probably one exception to Gillards performance is the Asylum Deal she negotiated with NZ this weekend.
    The resolution to the Border Protection/Asylum Seekers thrashed out with New Zealand shows Gillard has gutted the NZ PM in bloody negotiations and has forced NZ to take Asylum seekers from Australia. It is testament to the relentless and brutal negotiating skills of our PM.
    Sometime next year (after the election) NZ will take 150 Asylum Seekers.
    About sums it up Migs.

  18. Spin and BS is the hallmark of Labor/Independents/Greens government since 2010.

    Right wing projection much.

    So tell us Tweed what have all Abbott’s stunts, three word slogans and constant stream of lies been if not spin and bullshit?

    Can you please give us examples of all the spin and bullshit from the government as they passed over 400 pieces of legislation all requiring government work, and a great majority of them without tax payer funded advertising as Howard used to do for just about all his policies. The only one I can think of is the spin on having a surplus, for which they were rightly canned, and by the left as well? It will be lucky if I ever see the right here canning the Liberals for their spin and breaking commitments, instead we will get lots of lame excuses, weaselly words and blaming everything else, especially Labor.

    They passed all that legislation whilst the opposition instead of being a credible opposition and demonstrating they can be an alternative government, engaged in spin, bullshit and childish spoiling tactics.

  19. So Abbott proves he’s a coward yet again and runs away from the media, even media that’s mostly been kind to him.

    Abbott has cut all appearances on the Channel 9 Today Show and other TV and regular radio spots as he’s too scared he will put his foot in it, or more accurately his minders are too scared he will screw up, which lets face it, that he will are the shortest odds possible.

    Malcolm Turnbull then volunteered to take the media spots but Abbott refused to allow him to, and the rumour now is that Bishop the younger will take some of the media stints to take the slack for Abbott’s cowardice.

    Story on Insiders is that Abbott wasn’t doing well on Today and other media appearances as he kept stuffing things up and saying things he shouldn’t have. Nikki Savvy said it’s because one female at Today had it in for Abbott, though Savvy has been caught out in porkies on this episode of Insiders.

    What a vile woman Savvy is.

    Anyway for an alternate PM Abbott proves how unworthy he is of being a leader of anything, let alone a country. If this is what we are going to get with him as PM, running away when things get mildly difficult, wrapped in cotton wool by minders, not showing up because things might be difficult for him and lying through his teeth at every turn, then Australia deserves much better than this mealy mouthed coward.

  20. What if . . . El gordo and Treeman were placed in moderation on this blog?

    They may quickly learn to avoid their trolling ways. Both are capable of making a contribution – putting the right-whinge case, but so often resort to inane crap instead…

  21. TAB Sportsbet – Official Odds.
    Federal seat of Lyne
    Gillespie (coalition) $1.07
    Oakeshott (Ind ) $6.50
    —– (ALP) $26.00
    You have to be brave to knock the Bookies, if you are that brave
    put your money where your mouth is.

  22. Bilko, Mr. Menzies, to Caldwell’s discomfort, seen nothing wrong in taking Labour’s policies on board, once elected.

    Mr. Menzie’s was correct. No one side have all the answers.

    One needs to recall that many voted for Mr. Howard, believing that the Democrats would prevent him from legislation for the GST.

    The Democrats sold us out, and the GST became a reality.

    One needs to take all Mr. Abbott says at face value. He will demolish most or all that Labor has achieved, and vote accordingly.

    If you are happy with the GEFC and NBN being dismantled, go ahead and vote for Mr. Abbott.

    If you are happy with the PS being gutted, go ahead.

    If you are happy with health and education being lobbed off to community groups, vote for Mr. Abbott.

    If you believe that WorkChoices should be reborn, vote for Mr.. Abbott,

    it is not about who is right or wrong. It is about what you want for this great country of ours,

    Has one noticed, Mr. Abbott dashes about clasping his little red book,

    Seem to remember another Liberal leader, and his little red book. Went on to establish a minor party, is my recollections are correct.

    A little red books tells us all.

  23. I heard Jonathon Green say that the two Independents might be polling badly in universal polls, but that is not necessary so, in their own communities. Windsor in particular, is still highly respected,

    Personally, I see nothing that both men have done in this government, has not been in the interest of their electorates. Not one thing. This should count in the long run.

  24. “New Zealand shows Gillard has gutted the NZ PM in bloody negotiations and has forced NZ to take Asylum seekers from Australia. It is testament to the relentless and brutal negotiating skills of our PM.”

    The PM gutted the NZ PM. Does one really believe she is that powerful. On one hand wi are lead to believe the PM is ineffectual and weak PM, and now she stands over tight wing PM’s pf other countries.

    Is she weak, or is she strong. Which is it?

    Looks like our leading commercial sporting bodies are all in big trouble.

  25. 5 NRL and 7 Australian rules are supposed to be named. Will this bring this years competion in both codes to a stand still?

  26. Tweed, you are truly a joke. Windsor and Oakeshott will not “rightly” be political history. Here’s a news flash-if the voters in their electorates had wanted Liars reps, they’d have elected Liars candidates.

    Clearly they didn’t and haven’t for years, because they were no doubt sick of being shafted by the Liars Party.

    It may surprise you that Windsor and Oakeshott want the best for their electorates and for the country. That’s why they gave Liealot the flick. He can’t be trusted, he’s a liar and dishonest.

    You constantly try to spin Liealot as a clean skin, but he’s been around the block a few times and we all know what a dishonest incompetent he truly is.

    Try and teach your granny to suck eggs, she’d be the only one silly enough to indulge the likes of you!

    Their decisions were made with the best interests of their electorates and this country in mind, something Liars Party electorates are being dudded on constantly.

    ME @11.43am, Liealot would be dead scared Turnbull will show him up for the gutless wonder and liar that he is, even though Turnbull is obviously insincere.

    Sava is obviously referring to Lisa Wilkinson, who hasn’t given Liealot a free ride lately and has made him look like the dickhead and liar he is several times.

    And all Sava can say is that Wilkinson is picking on him? Not that Liealot is too gutless to face someone who doesn’t fawn all over him and give him a free ride.

    Yet Sava gives no credit to a PM who has more guts than the entire shadow- apology-for-a-ministry, never dodges questions and stays till stumps putting up with the most inane irrelevant bullshit from morons like her in the msm, who are only capable of regurgitating Liars spin and smear or wittering on about why she is wearing goggles, the colour of her jackets or the size of her bum.

    Then have the Liars gob shites taking up the baton of slime trying to convince people that the goggles are a publicity stunt, ffs!

    Here’s another news flash for the trolls. Swanning around in red smugglers, pretending to be a firey, a shopkeeper or a butcher or baker or candlestick maker for photo ops, is a stunt.

    Wearing goggles because your eyesight is not as good as it was 30 years ago, is not.

    I think this ban on Liealot fronting the msm could turn around and bite Credlin on her oversized publicly IVF-funded, under taxed @rse. Even the most sycophantic barracker must eventually run out of excuses for this display of gutlessness.

    Bishop will fall flat on her mug at the first question about anything other than smearing the PM and the rest of that talentless mob of hacks posing as the alternative government will do no better.

    And @6.28am, arrggghhhh! Even Dali couldn’t conjure up a more terrifying picture.

    Bacchus, the fact that she hasn’t tried to post anything confirms that she has nothing positive to add.

    Never stopped her before, Migs. lol

    LOVO @12.18pm, I’m astonished that you would impute the reputation of the most honest and least dethpicable duck in the universe. Wash your keyboard out with soap, sir and we’ll have no more of that nonsense here!!

    Psst, Migs. Don’t let LOVO see this D’ya reckon we could plant some evidence in their change rooms?

  27. Windsor is the biggest disgrace. He sold out his constituents so that he could get 3 years of the political Gravy train. Oakeshott is merely a giggle palace who is unemployable but once again sold out his constituents so he could have a lash at the parliamentary perks.
    Abbott had foresight not to sell his soul to these two. We should have read Gillard’s minority government as an early indication of her hopeless bargaining ability.
    That is why these two are political dead meat until the day they die. Imaging any voter believing an election spiel this side of eternity from these two clowns.
    Sportsbet is the font of truth in these matters.

  28. Oh, ffs, Tweed. Is Julia Gillard now the PM of NZ? The NZ government is the only government able to gut any NZ policies. Are you really that thick? Oh, right, I forgot who you barrack for.

    After Labor kicked the Rodent out, I can remember some dingbat idiot trying to blame Swan for a downturn in a foreign economy. Wow! I thought. I didn’t know Mr Swan was now Treasurer for the World.

    I did wonder if Mr Swan knew. He never commented but when the GFC descended on the globe, I knew that Tip had somehow got hold of the levers and that’s why the rest of the world was in deep doodoo.

    Voyager, ever noticed how often the favourite ends up running last? I wouldn’t put too much faith or money in Sportsbet.

  29. …me thinks Janes been puffing on Migs’ cigar…….. na ha . :mrgreen:
    Ahh, the preamble to the footy season has begun….. as our PM said ‘bring it on’ 👿
    😆 😆

  30. Cu, that reminds me of the late great Matty Price who used to label Costello’s budget, the Ruddget having nicked so many of Kevin’s ideas.

  31. No so, Tweed. Windsor could have backed the Coalition if it was his wish to do so, and thus spend three years on the “gravy train” (as you like to call it).

    Your problem seems to be that he didn’t go with your team.

    And I suppose you’re also bitter with anybody who didn’t vote for the Coalition.

  32. Again with the idiotic lies and frankly stupidity, Tweed. You’re not talking to barrackers who are slack jawed enough to swallow Liars bullshit without question, even though the truth and the facts are on a 100mx100m neon billboard.

    Liealot offered Windsor and Oakeshott everything except his @rse if they’d give him the nod. Unfortunately for Liealot and loonies like you, Windsor recorded the conversation.

    And remind me again, who won the toss and who got the flick?

    Are you trying to convince us, or yourself, that Liealot is such a superior negotiator that he was completely unable to convince two conservative MPs to give him a crack at running the country and that Gillard’s hopeless negotiating skills not only saw her shifting the furniture into the Lodge, but let her put on the PM’s hat and run the country.

    Bugger! I wonder who you’d turn to in a touchy hostage situation? If I was a hostage, I’d be praying you weren’t choosing the negotiator.

    Even for a barracker you’ve outdone yourself! A combination of complete stupidity and unfounded optimism, much like the mob you barrack for. Go peddle your wares on Planet Dolt or Anal. Your twisted and moronic “logic’ is well suited to them.

  33. Found Bookies odds on Windsor in New England
    Torbay (Coalition) $1.30
    Windsor (Ind) $3.25
    Odds with Sportsbet. Tony will be going along to Centrelink 16Sept.
    For those Cold Coffees slinging off at Bookies abilities in this field.
    In the 2010 Election Sportsbet correctly picked the winner in 96% of the seats.
    Correctly nominating 147 seats.
    Only a fool would wish to bet against the Bookies in this arena.

  34. Migs @3.36pm, not so in Tweedworld, apparently. It’s only a gravy train if the ALP is running the show. If the Liars Party are in charge, it’s just your salary. Do try to keep up with the terminology 😉

    Min @3.38pm, rofl. 🙂

  35. Well, well well. El gordo is racing off saying that she’s been banned.

    Is she a habitual liar?

    I’ve publicly announced she is only in moderation. Her public announcement that she has been banned is evidence of her dishonest behaviour. And intentions.

    Perhaps a banning would have been more appropriate.

  36. By the way, the things that the NZ PM is trying to reverse are those bought on by Mr. Howard, while in power.

  37. Tell me of one thing that Mr. Windsor did, that bought any harm to his constituents.

    Also acknowledge, these people did not vote for the Liberal or national party candidates. They had that choice, but voted independent.

    Everything that both have supported, can be found in their election campaign speeches.

    The exercised their options by not voting for the Coalition,

    It is tommy rot to say their vote meant they were voting for the Coalition., .

  38. Do you know of the campaign for Abbott to face an enquiry of him going character witness to a pedophile priest who was sentenced to jail, then won an appeal on the character references of Abbott and a handful of others, then the priest was stuck off by the Church?

    There is a Ltd News story on it but there is a campaign to have him explain why he went into bat for a priest who slept (but denies molesting) with two boys.


  39. Abbott had foresight not to sell his soul to these two.

    Are you really that thick or ignorant Tweed, or most likely you are so ideologically blinded and in love with Abbott that you overlook what he actually did during that election, and before that and since.

    Abbott offered everything to the indies including a million dollar hospital to Wilkie and other massive concessions. As has been revealed Abbott would have done and given anything but his arse to anyone to become PM at the time. That he so miserably failed and has so miserably failed as an opposition leader since says an awful lot about how bad a leader Abbott is.

  40. That incidence os sexual abuse at Westmead Boy’s Home was one the worse cases,

    Sadly about the same time, up the road a mile or too, there were others incidents of a similar nature at the local Catholic School,

  41. Turnbull has shares in both the Spanish and French fibre to the home. Amazing when one looks at the economic fragility if the countries, especially Spain.

    No matter how Turnbull spins it, down the track, fibre to the home will be needed, Hooking in on to a worn out, inferior copper makes little sense.

    Tes, Turnbull might, and I say might be able \ to do it a little cheaper in the short run., In the long term, their solution will be must more expensive and create more interruption to the home owner and business.

    What Labor is providing, now and in the long term, is a universal system, that meets today’s and future needs.

    What is wrong about doing it correctly up front. Like the carpenter says, measure twice and do it proper the first time. Save money in the long run.

  42. Abbott had a thing about buying and giving hospitals away. Remember the other one called, the Mersey, I believe. One of the messes, Ms, Roxon had to sort out, as Health Minister.

  43. I wonder if the campaign to have Abbott explain his going into bat for a paedophile priest is the reason Abbott is avoiding the MSM, except for very carefully stage managed press conferences he can run away from?

  44. Migs, keep your finger on the trash it button 🙄
    1. troll stays polite
    2. pretends to have a reasoned debate
    3. Posts outrageous pieces from climate sceptic sites prolifically.
    4. Doesnt object to being called a fool
    3. Repeats step three

  45. LOVO step 3 can be substituted by reams and reams of very selective local cold weather snippets. Posted to annoy and fill up post threads, not to add anything to the debate

  46. “…………In the latest example of the Coalition’s “small target” strategy in the lead up to the election, Mr Abbott was missing from his breakfast slot on Friday.

    After complaining that the Labor Party was “planting” negative stories about the Coalition in the Friday newspapers and then forcing Mr Abbott to cop the fallout on air, his office informed the program he would no longer appear weekly.

    But when the Today show locked in the man he replaced as Liberal leader to replace him, Mr Abbott’s office demanded Mr Turnbull withdraw from the arrangement.

    Coalition insiders are deeply concerned that a media stumble by Mr Abbott remains one of the greatest threats to him ruining what many believe to be an unloseable election.

    Paranoia has reached such heights that at a briefing of Coalition chiefs of staff in Canberra this week, Mr Abbott’s chief of staff Peta Credlin told staff to stay off Twitter and watch out for waiters with recording devices, citing the covert recording of US Presidential candidate Mitt Romeny at a fundraiser….”


    #insiders For Peta Credlin you missed her screeching at Tony Abbott to stop interjecting (nice guy, remember) http://twitpic.com/c19ge3
    Reply Retweet Favorite More

    By Marq James @marqoftheshire
    Shut the fuck up Tony, stick to the script, carbon tax and surplus.


  47. So it is oblivion for Windsor and Oakshott.
    Some degree of certainty on that for those two.
    Wilkie (Dennison) looks like retaining seat.
    You are all quite a prissy little lot with greatly inflated self impotance.
    Sometimes a lightening up and a laugh helps !

  48. Curious how the trolls see the election as a sure thing for the opp’n. You’d think they were in govt’ now the way they talk!…..but they’re not in govt’. they are barely managing 50/50 in the TPP polls W/ total MSM. backing!…and the policy they HAVE released to the public are a threat to subtract from the voter’s purse rather than add to it…and I believe that regardless of what some pollsters project, I think you’ll find that the most important consideration of the majority of voters on polling day is the content of their wallets….and if you are from Western Sydney or the like, you have to ask yourself one question..: “Will it be fatter under a Tabbott govt’ or under a Labor govt’ “…..
    Well, will it ..;Punk!

  49. “…………………………..More of the advertorial style, casting Abbott in a positive light. “Confident, not complacent” is a way of describing a footballer starting a season, as to not make them sound like an egotist who thinks everything is easy. Plus, “by chance” reduces the significance of the campaign by Nick Minchin, amongst others, to install Abbott as opposition leader. “By chance” is a oft repeated half truth.

    No wonder he’s risk averse. He won’t contemplate a reshuffle – it just creates whingers. He minimises ”hard” interviews. His office has made an extraordinary effort to counter Labor’s claims that he is ”anti-woman”, with his chief of staff, Peta Credlin, willing to talk publicly about how he encouraged her to use his parliamentary fridge to store her fertility drugs.

    It is here we have a list of things reported by the Press Gallery but not really examined or analysed a great deal – Grattan doesn’t seem overly bothered by the idea that Abbott is being allowed to minimise those “hard” interviews, as if he has the right to avoid scrutiny.

    He is obsessed with discipline, though seemingly unable to avoid periodic lapses. He knows he can be his own biggest risk. His deep personal unpopularity and his negative branding are problems to which he will apply his usual diligence. But can he change his image? And how much will it matter in the end?

    “His usual diligence” is an interesting expression, as is Grattan’s question as to how important his image is. Image, image, image is the focus of this article. And, as if to confirm this, Hugh Mackay is mentioned – the social researcher who is the go to person for journalists who usually write about social trends and product popularity.

    Social researcher Hugh Mackay believes Abbott’s brand – being negative, destructive and dismissive – has been unchanged for so long that it has become ”indelible” and it’s hard to see him being able to break out of it.

    Abbott’s Brand confirms the idea that this article is about a product. Abbott is Chanel – or possibly more accurately, Brut. What we don’t see here is any exploration of why he is unpopular – that it might have something to do with more than image. Then we slip into my favourite quote in the entire article – the moment that in advertisements that are usually prefaced with the line “Don’t take my word for it, let’s ask one of Abbott’s supporters”:..”


  50. But jaycee they hide away when the polls started turning against Abbott and opposition, not that the polls have ever been good for Abbott, in fact the worst for any Liberal opposition leader. They have only just crawled out from under their rocks when the polls seemed to turn back again and the moment they turn away from the Liberals again they will run away again, just like their beloved leader runs away from everything even mildly difficult. Shit he even runs away from perceived or potential difficulties.

    They are so like their beloved master who is nothing more than a gormless puppet of others and must be carefully molly coddled in the softest cotton wool lest his enormous fragile ego gets hurt, especially by a woman.

  51. Another indicator of higher unemployment under Abbott.

    January unemployment rate steady but Queensland again dragging the chain with the highest shrinking participation rate.

  52. I’m a believer

    I think Julia Gillard can win. It is not likely, mind, and I suspect she is only a 30 per cent chance, but I maintain a True Believers II election is at least a possibility. In the time between now and September 14, it goes without saying they must focus on governing well, but there is another obvious star to steer by: Do It Like Barack Obama Did It. Embrace progressive policies and stitch together your own coalition of people who want change, not same old, same old.
    Don’t run away from the carbon tax – glory in it. Point out that while Rome is burning, Australia is actually at the forefront of trying to douse the flames. Ramp up the republic. Sure, that will annoy the conservatives, but that’s just a bonus! Highlight that the National Disability Insurance Scheme really is a breakthrough for those Australians who’ve been dealt a bad hand, through no fault of their own.
    And one more thing: put gay marriage back on the agenda. Yes, the PM has opposed it, but so did Obama, before having his position ”evolve”. So must hers. When even the British Conservatives can embrace sanity and thumpingly endorse gay marriage as they did this week, how can the ALP possibly position themselves as the party of progressive change and still be against it?…”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/had-a-whale-of-a-time-but-im-baaack-20130209-2e4yn.html#ixzz2KUNnLls1

  53. Voyager, I am curious, genuinely so. What do you believe you achieve by making the comments you do. They never contribute to any of the threads, Sometimes I get the impression, it is wishful thinking on your part, and if you see it in print, it will make it truth.

  54. Sportsbet odds do not reflect the mood of the electorate, but rather the amount of money that Coalition supporters have plunged on their candidate to alter the odds to make them appear more popular than they really are. It’s a dirty trick.

  55. Maybe Peta botch the botox, or he stayed under the tanning light too long.

    He could not possibly be sick?

    Whatever has happen, he looks different.,

  56. silkworm, if I had a Sportsbet account, I would be tempted to take some od those odds on Labor. Extra good value. In fact to good of value in a two horse race.

    The closer the poll numbers come together, the greater the odds move apart,

    That does not make sense.

  57. You guys must have misunderstood me. I was supportive of Gillards efforts to resolve the Border Protection failure.
    I mean moving on 150 people a year (in a year or so) is a start……
    She is doing her very best…
    Hey CU. Maybe put your grocery money on Oakeshott.
    $1 will get you $10 at the moment. Great value.
    What I cannot understand is how the voters of Lyne just do not appreciate Oakeshott propping up this debilitated Gillard Government. The voters of Lyne must have got it wrong somehow.

  58. Tweed again you write nothing but unsubstantiated lies,personal attacks and your credability is anchored by sports bet. Apart from being a political pygmy, your an A grade tosser.

  59. Sikworm you are so so wrong to suggest these odds are biased to suit one
    party or another.
    Number crunchers prepare the odds and very successfully.
    Repeat Sportsbet success rate with candidates was 96% in the 2010 Election, this will
    be repeated on 14Sept 2013.
    Current odds are
    Coalition $1.16
    ALP $4.85
    What do they see and factor in that CW’s dont?

  60. propping up this debilitated Gillard Government

    The debilitated Lieberal Coalition is propped up by the most one-sided media outside of North Korea.

  61. What if…Who is catching who?

    “……………….LABOR MP Kevin Rudd has talents and experience that could land him a diplomatic appointment under a coalition government, deputy opposition leader Julie Bishop says.

    Julie Bishop – the interview

    Ms Bishop says if she were to become foreign minister, Mr Rudd would be considered for any role with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

    “If Kevin wants to apply for a job I’ll judge it against the others who are applying for that same position,” she told Sky News on Sunday.

    “But certainly he has talents and ability and experience in foreign policy that shouldn’t be wasted and I think that former prime ministers usually have a contribution to make.

    “But I’ll certainly be looking for a range of people to fill our posts overseas because they are after all, Australia’s voice, ambassadors to the world.”

    Ms Bishop revealed on Sunday she and Mr Rudd had forged a friendship after travelling overseas together as parliamentary colleagues.

    “Over a glass of wine together, we have shared some thoughts,” she said.

    “I wouldn’t say he confides in me in this atmosphere within the Labor Party of leaks against prime ministers and people investigating leaking of the leaking.”

    She believed Mr Rudd had one more tilt at the leadership in him before the next election..”


  62. Note. The Opposition condemned the PM for making the extension of the tight of a worker to seek more flexible work hours, while overseas.

    What a joke.

    Yes, there was in what seems now the distant past, a convention that one did not discuss domestic politics aboard.

    The Opposition, with their actions of trashing the PM, government and economy, while overseas has long trashed this convention.

    Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

  63. Tweed, can think of worse bets. Still I will not be, as I do not believe in this type of betting., Windsor would be a better bet.

    Tweed, did not take on the information, that it is easy for the Liberals to manipulate the odds. Would not take much money at all.

    Also, I fail to see what your point is, or what you think it proves.

    You are like those, who put up a link to a graph, showing there has been a rise in debt, since Howard, believing it backs their point. Of course, in itself, means nothing.

    The proof of a good economy is about much more than the words debt and deficit.

  64. voyager, why do you have an obsession with who will win the next election. All your comments tells us nothing else.

    Time will tell us who wins.

    I am more interested in hearing why you believe Mr. Abbott should win.

  65. I haven’t had a chance to read the comments, just the post. Has anybody mentioned IR? Any Independent worth his or her salt would know that the Opposition’s IR policies are electorally unpopular.

  66. Voyger and Tweed are so desperate they are resorting to quoting sports bet. Tweed calls me a boy, because he has nothing to add to proceedings other than bullshit…. 🙄

  67. RICKY -Tweed calls you a boy . Why because the human brain takes a long long time
    to develop. This is in fact your case – one of an underdeveloped brain.
    And well supplemented with bursts of swearing and coarse language.
    Time will tell if there is any marked improvement.

  68. Repeat Sportsbet success rate with candidates was 96% in the 2010 Election

    God you’re a tosser.

    How about you for once now tell us the facts and how accurate the bets were more than six months out from an election.

    That success rate was for bets just before the election.

    Isn’t it telling how cowardly the right wingers are that they ran away when the polls turned, before that they were all over this place giving us as daily bullshit on how Labor was going to get their arses kicked.

    Now it’s betting and if that turns around they will run away again.

    Here’s another difference.

    If they lose they will disappear for a few months sulking and then come out more abusive than ever, dummy spitting, throwing sour grapes all over the place and making the lamest excuses.

    Labor loses we will still be here saying we weren’t happy, probably blaming the media wrongly or rightly, but will mostly accept the outcome, and then hold the Abbott government to account as they lie and break just about every promise they made whilst the right wingers make the lamest excuses for the string of broken promises.

  69. Tweed, what are you going to talk about, when the polls change, more to the governments way, as they always do, as one nears the election date.,

    Seem to recall, that the polls said for months Obama had no chance. Right up to the election I believed.

    Might start taking some noticed in September, Even then, I will treat them with suspicion.

  70. I like this article. Comes as close as one can to being unbiased.

    “…………..As Paul Keating once said in a conversation with Malcolm Turnbull in 2008 “I made you rich!”

    To make it brutally frank: the ALP are nowhere near as open to this disenfranchised group of generally Coalition supporters as they should be.

    The five areas I’ve touched on above are what comes before we can get to a real policy discussion on any issue because they deal with people, knowing where one stands and being real.

    To sum it up in a phrase: policy exemplifies values, connection, authenticity, trust and identity.

    It’s all well and good to say you want to copy the sophisticated tactics of Barack Obama’s victorious 2012 US Presidential campaign, but if your policies are out of sync in relation to each other or they’re not communicated in a manner that is consistent with what you believe, it won’t work!

    The party that is consistent in relation to this concept and injects optimism and inclusion into everything they communicate is the party that usually wins elections.



  71. What is.. that pasty, puffy look we see, is because he is on the way out??????????????

    Despite Tony Abbott’s action man stunts and soaring polls, all is not rosy with the Coalition, writes Lenore Taylor.

    “They took an explicit decision to continue an all-out attack to force an early poll” … above, the Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/liberal-doubts-aired-at-crash-through-tactics-20111209-1onme.html#ixzz2KZQPJv00

    Tony Abbott’s last party room meeting before his MPs and senators headed home for Christmas should have been a happy event, with the polls showing the Coalition would win an election in a landslide. Instead it was tense and tetchy.
    Abbott slapped down backbencher and former Howard government adviser Kelly O’Dwyer for questioning short cuts taken in party decision-making processes, telling her to ring her old boss Peter Costello and ”ask him what he used to do”. ”It was a rude and pointless put down,” a colleague said. The Coalition leader bristled at suggestions he should tone down his negativity. He had to calm rural Liberal MPs angry at the growing influence of the Nationals.
    It was the last chance for the Coalition foot soldiers to say to their leader’s face what they have for some time been saying in private, that he needs to change strategic direction, that his short-term whatever-it-takes attack strategy is now jeopardising his long-term success.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/liberal-doubts-aired-at-crash-through-tactics-20111209-1onme.html#ixzz2KZPyQPJf..”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/liberal-doubts-aired-at-crash-through-tactics-20111209-1onme.html#ixzz2KZPFiqCD

  72. Cu and,

    but if your policies are out of sync in relation to each other or they’re not communicated in a manner that is consistent with what you believe, it won’t work!

    This is exactly the problem with Labor, to most progressives the government might be taking some excellent initiatives but then they blow it by going ahead with proven failures such as Nauru. Nauru and indeed the PM’s anti-gay marriage stance is at odds with what most people would expect from a Labor government. I say that the PM has “an anti-gay marriage stance” due to the fact that she chose to speak out and say that she was against it, when she could have chosen to remain silent. It was a conscience vote, and one’s conscience allows one to remain silent.

  73. Trolls like Voyager and twee’ want a liberal victory so bad, not because they believe they will be better off under Abbott….but because, pitifully, they want us here and Labor voters in general (but mainly us here) to be shown that THEY (trolls) were correct in their judgement….the “YES!” moment.
    Now, have any of you known a sadder, more lacrimoniously lamentable state than a person seeking to elevate themselves and their intellect on such a self-deluded proposition!?…it’s almost like them stealing dinner-change from the table of a blind person!…..and them walking away thinking they were being clever!……how must they feel?…..
    God!..It’s tragic.

  74. It was the last chance for the Coalition foot soldiers to say to their leader’s face what they have for some time been saying in private, that he needs to change strategic direction, that his short-term whatever-it-takes attack strategy is now jeopardising his long-term success.

    I doubt if Tony has any long-term thinking past the many opportunities he will have to have his photo taken as he accepts the keys to the Lodge.

    And as far as Coalition foot soldiers..try the term serfs, their opinions are zero in the scheme of things. In the Coalition there are no promotions and nothing ever changes..ever…

  75. Because, let’s face it..they only have the shallowest of opportunist philosophy..the shallowest of capitalist ethics and morality and the hungriest of personal ‘want’…….totally tragic.
    they deserve the Liberal Party.

  76. Tweed, you did not answer though.

    Sorry, but I thought it was very relevant, as that is all you talk about.

  77. When the winds change there is always chaos and lots of blood letting on this site.
    What you should grasp is the basic Sine Curve Principle. Remember that ‘Sine Curve’?
    Well it holds true in many areas particularly politics. Quite simply you cannot stay on
    top all the time . There are highs and lows unless its a Dictatorship.
    In simple terms power is shared sometimes this lasts longer sometimes shorter.
    The indicators are at this point Labors days are numbered and that curve has
    changed thru public sentiment.The reality being that the probability at this stage
    of Ms Dullard being returned as PM are unlikely. It is regardless of how good or bad
    the opposition is, the Australian Voting Public will be voting for a substantial change.

  78. voyager, look around you. You are the only one interested in what you have to say.

    How many times, and how many ways, and for how long, are you going to keep telling me, and the others here, something we could not care less about.

  79. “voyager, look around you. You are the only one interested in what you have to say.

    How many times, and how many ways, and for how long, are you going to keep telling me, and the others here, something we could not care less about.”

    Oh CU, you summed up the inadequacies of this site in two sentences…

    1. “You are the only one interested in what you have to say”

    Only In this narrow group think forum…CU, you do not reflect the greater populace at all!

    2. “How many times, and how many ways, and for how long, are you going to keep telling me, and the others here, something we could not care less about”

    A telling statement…we here have our heads so deep in the sand that we refuse to allow even the possibility that other views have any merit.

    As previously mentioned, sanctimonious and unctuous platitudes are your hallmark!

  80. Oh hello!..here’s Treason back from the floods…had a wash, brushed his teeth and is ready to take on the world!…Please!..someone pass him the vaseline! He knows how to use it.

  81. Tree, just not interested in childish tripe and insults that are forever repeated, Then I expect nothing better from you.

    Are you saying, I am not allow to voice my opinion. That seems to be the case.

    Suggest you get back to the thread and leave the personal insults out.

    Will make much better reading.

  82. Well he does not appear to have much to say, except for criticising what others voice.

    Very good at fancy put downs and insults, Not sure what that adds to any debate,

  83. “Pastor Daniel”, of Catch the Fire Ministries, says a conversation with Jesus that went from 3.40am to 6am one morning prompted his move to Australia.” 😆 😆 😆
    ……. HAL..alooya…. I believe……ahhhhhh then this…. “Pastor Daniel, a former Family First candidate who was asked to leave the party, told a rowdy crowd in Canberra yesterday that the party was “determined to be politically incorrect”. ….oh, in doodeee praise the Lord 😆 ….. ROFLMAO …. a ‘former’ FF candidate……. and asked to leave…… oh, come on stop it…… I’m in stitches …… no really 😀

    “Tolerance has gone too much and the RUA party is committed to keeping Australia Australian,” he said.

    Climate change skeptic Christopher ‘Lord’ Monckton spoke at the launch, giving a very graphic description of abortions and leading a round of patriotic cheers.

    RUA did not return calls yesterday” …… Gina, if your listening…. bwwaahhaaaa ha


  84. VOYAGER – S y d n e y
    February 11, 2013 @ 2:43 pm

    RICKY -Tweed calls you a boy . Why because the human brain takes a long long time
    to develop. This is in fact your case – one of an underdeveloped brain.
    And well supplemented with bursts of swearing and coarse language.
    Time will tell if there is any marked improvement.

    Underdeveloped Brain? I’m not the one quoting sportsbet as some kind of source of politically legitimacy. Your inane, tiresome broken record predictability has no semblance of anything worth debating in that cavernous fact deficit hole you both use as a brain.
    Quite frankly your drivel is beneath me, post something other than bullshit (yes I used profanity, get over it) and maybe I may engage, I doubt it though. Please feel free to hold your breath for as long as possible in anticipation.
    The fact that some imbecile with the mental dexterity of a carrot calls me boy in a blog, does not contrary to your feeble thinking upset me in the slightest. It is however an affirmation of how completely stupid Tweed is and the level at which others perceive his consistent frivolous inanity.
    Your both gold plated intellectual desert dwellers of articulated mediocrity with the political vocabulary of cabbages.

  85. So ….Torch Boy. You are avoiding the question. I am getting the vibe you ARE a 20th century tory fighter from the old country. It is alright to be a New Chum. Come out of the closet.

  86. TONY ABBOTT’S thought bubbles illustrate very plainly why he is totally unfit to become this country’s Prime Minister.

    For him to say, without any equivocation whatsoever, that his front bench will remain intact in the event of his elevation to The Lodge is surely one of his scariest predictions ever and must send shock waves throughout the thinking sections of the once great Liberal Party.

    Does he really believe Julie Bishop could represent Australia at world forums like the United Nations? Julie Bishop at Westminster or the White House or the Élysée Palace or the Kremlin? Julie Bishop receiving top officials visiting this country and holding intelligent conversations with them?

    Perish the thought. I don’t think so.

    As for the other Bishop ‒ Bronwyn, of the metho kerosene baths at nursing homes fame ‒ the only role that would interest her would be Speaker of The House.

    Any party opposing an Abbott Government would be silenced by this ancient spectre, whose pre-selection should have been denied (at least) two elections ago.

    She would be relentless………………..”


  87. “Has anyone got an opinion on the launch today of the new Australian Party. Launched by Mr,. Monkton.”

    Nah, not really. Wouldn’t be hard to guess who is the core of this new party (nothing to do with Gina) but I don’t support any political party…all puppets and strings is more fun.

  88. Tweed
    February 12, 2013 @ 2:30 pm
    So ….Torch Boy. You are avoiding the question. I am getting the vibe you ARE a 20th century tory fighter from the old country. It is alright to be a New Chum. Come out of the closet.

    Well Tweed, you melon brained dim whit as expected your predictive perception is as floored as your piss poor attempts at political diatribe. Your “vibe” is as wide of the mark as your political aptitude. See unlike you I’m not a coward who hides behind anonymity. Your research skills are an indication of your intellectual aptitude so I will make it easy so even a feeble minded oxygen thief like you can understand.
    I was born in a Sydney Hospital in 1961,educated in a Sydney public school and attended UNSW and UTS.

    Analysis of your language however as someone who uses the term “New Chum”, “Boy” and “Closet” in concert with you regurgitation of low brow media and unsubstantiated baseless opinion, screams redneck inferiority.

    If you want to discuss avoiding a question that you never asked, I would suggest that this is an insulting and racially implied statement.

    February 11, 2013 @ 2:46 pm
    So Torch Boy. You ARE a New Chum…….
    Explains everything.

    Avoidance would be your complete inability to provide me with 10 personal attributes of Tony Abbott’s character that would make him a worthy Prime Minister despite asking you on numerous occasions.
    Cmon, you worship your Lycra action figure and fancy yourself as somewhat of a stick wielding political animal “sticking it up the left” so it should be a breeze. I suspect from the substance of your anonymous troll claptrap, you are never here to debate, rather poke the intelligent mindlessly with a stick like a Neanderthal minion of mediocrity.

    Catching up
    February 11, 2013 @ 11:42 pm
    Has anyone got an opinion on the launch today of the new Australian Party. Launched by Mr,. Monkton.

    A Sri Lankan immigrant with a broad accent who is a fundamentalist christian evangelist with an honorary doctorate (without an undergrad or social service) from a fundamentalist American bible college says Multiculturalism has failed and uses Monkton as a keynote speaker.
    What is wrong with this picture?

    February 11, 2013 @ 9:33 pm
    “voyager, look around you. You are the only one interested in what you have to say.

    Anyone who refers to Prime Minister Gillard as dullard and constantly posts complete unsubstantiated rubbish is obviously thick.

    February 11, 2013 @ 9:33 pm
    Oh CU, you summed up the inadequacies of this site in two sentences…

    What? Treeman is here posting garbage again. Treeman is still here posting garbage again.
    Look Trollman, if this site is so inadequate please feel free to leave. Your plan to stick it to us seems to be consistently failing so please move on, as you point out we are “not interested” in you factless “opinion” Your consistent cnt C cnt V of factless drivel extinguishes rather than enlightens. You are the personification of your namesake, a tree dwelling mindless monkey who adds nor accomplishes nothing.

    Migs has called for submissions of quality articles from conservatives over at AIMN. So I invite and encourage all you pillars of intellectual neoconservatism to step up to the plate and submit your articles. Present an articulate article steeped in fact and you may just get a gernsey.

    PS maybe, Treeman, Voyager and Tweed could direct us to their blogs. 🙄

  89. Torch Boy….. were your Mum and Dad New Chums? You have got to have gleaned the 20th century Tory monika from someone of influence in your formative years.
    It just isn’t an Australian terminology.
    Not that it matters as one cares about the term, not even the Tories in UK I would think..
    Come on Torch Boy. Fess up. Who was your mentor who taught you the aged term Tory.

  90. Tweed, what is your point.None I believe but an attempt denigrate someone who has the hide to disagree with you.

    I use the term. All my people came here pre 1850’s. All free settlers. Only by one from the so called mother country.

    How long has your mob been here. No, do not answer that, has nothing to do with the thread.

    Senator Abetz given hard time ABC 24.

  91. Small torch, a dim light in an ever dimming leftist world, babbling away to an audience of five or six whisperers and a few enlightened souls who arrived here by chance but stick around for a laugh!

  92. Tweed and,

    were your Mum and Dad New Chums?

    I don’t think that Ricky’s Mum and Dad are of relevance to this post.

    Treeman, you are ignorant of the numbers of hits on this blog and I am getting a little sick and tired of your inferences.

  93. Min, we cannot even get a laugh from him. Completely of no consequences, just wastes space on the site.

  94. Min, it is a word I have heard all my life. It is A part of the english language I believe., Maybe Tweed was bought up in a different tongue.

    Whatever the cause, he does sometimes have trouble with English words, and their meanings.

  95. Tree, if you rook time to observe, instead of continuous mouthing off, you would see that light is not dimming, but extending it;s tenacles across the web.

    Not only extending but linking up with many more such sites.

    The numbers are growing every day. Some are even turning up in the MSM. That is indeed a miracle.

    Tree and Tweed, you will now have many more places to get fun from.

  96. Whatever the cause, he does sometimes have trouble with English words, and their meanings.

    It appears to be a conservative trait. 😉

    Who can forget the oo claiming that some company was ‘shelving’ a project, and pulling out the dictionary after the mining company in question had to make a statement denying it all. Even the dictionary didn’t support their claim

    In an announcement to the Australia Securities Exchange today, Rio said there had been no final decision by its board to “shelve” any projects in Australia following the announcement of the government’s proposed new mining tax.

    In the Australian Pocket Oxford Dictionary, the word shelve is defined as to “put aside, esp(ecially) temporarily”.

    A Rio statement added: “Rio Tinto is reviewing the potential impact of the proposed RSPT on all of its operations and new projects in Australia.”


    Memo to the oo, ‘reviewing’ is not ‘put aside’ 😉

    And now, these are the same muppets claiming the Mining Tax isn’t hitting miners hard enough 😯

  97. It had a lot perplexed, even Rio Tinto themselves.

    I saw a woman on QandA the other night going at Labor (and claiming to be a lifelong Labor supporter) over the ‘failure’ of the Mining Tax. I wonder if she recalls the heady days of daily lies, ramped up by the likes of murdoch and gina in hte form of outrageous lies like that above, and how the Government managed to get the bill through against such an avalanche of self interest and outright bullshit. With supporters like that ……

    (personally, she more resembled a sock puppet to me, but that was just the impression I got)

  98. The meaning they give to the word “lie” is one that comes to mind. Another is the inability to understand the difference between “projection” and ” promise”. The list just goes on and on.

  99. Unsuccessful criminals I think. Not much history of my family so they are probably hiding it. Have an English surname so yes probably the original Fam were failed criminals who came out as convicts.

  100. Tom, you mean that they no longer have to hoist Gina up onto the back of a ute just so she can cry poor.

    No, they now appear to be crying rich 😯

  101. Tweed
    February 13, 2013 @ 5:08 am

    Torch Boy….. were your Mum and Dad New Chums? You have got to have gleaned the 20th century Tory monika from someone of influence in your formative years.
    It just isn’t an Australian terminology.
    Not that it matters as one cares about the term, not even the Tories in UK I would think..
    Come on Torch Boy. Fess up. Who was your mentor who taught you the aged term Tory.

    Intelligence and a book, something that has obvious eluded you as a purveyor of dim whited logic with accusations of being a Pom 🙄
    Atheists don’t need confessionals; I see no defensive top 10 for your lycra hero. I know it’s a little beyond you mental capacity and the bounds of good taste. So I will assume you avoidance and talk of my parents as a confirmation of you ineptitude for political discourse. Your assumptions are comically inept considering my mother was related to Joseph Banks and my great great grandfather fled the tyranny of Poland.

    February 13, 2013 @ 7:25 am
    Small torch, a dim light in an ever dimming leftist world, babbling away to an audience of five or six whisperers and a few enlightened souls who arrived here by chance but stick around for a laugh!

    Your self-flagellating return to you own excrement is underwhelming. Again please feel free to disappear or create your own blog where you all can link hands at the urinal of self-affirming mediocrity.
    Min Treeman has nothing, his mission of “showing us” is a complete failure like his Bolt quoting, ineptitude for political discourse. Neocons hate the truth and he is a Muppet. I hope like Hall he toddles off with his bat and ball and plays with the other intellectually challenged primates.

    So lets recap.

    Bloglinks: Fail
    Political discourse: Fail
    List of Abbotts attributes: Fail
    Assumptions: Fail
    Oh dear 🙄

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