A lot of great words are written on internet sites but unless they are to be found in the mainstream media sites they usually slip under the radar of everyone’s attention. I found a couple of pieces written mid and late last year on the Essential Vision website that come under that category.
These are reproduced in part or in full below. We start off with Groups better off under Labor or Liberal Government which poses the following question:
Q. Do you think the following groups of people would be better off under a Labor Government or a Liberal Government?
Better off under a Labor Govt
Better off under a Liberal Govt
Makes no difference
(Labor minus Liberal)
People with disabilities
People and families on low incomes
People and families on middle incomes
People and families on high incomes
Average working people
Banks and other financial institutions
Families with children at public school
Families with children at private school
Recent immigrants to Australia
Farmers and other agricultural producers
Respondents were substantially more likely to think the following groups would be better off under a Labor Government – unemployed, low income families, single parents and people with disabilities.
They were substantially more likely to think the following groups would be better off under a Liberal Government – large corporations, high income families, banks and financial institutions, families with children at private schools.
Those were interesting figures. They show that respondents think most people will be better off under a Labor Government, yet the polls tell us that most people will be likely to vote in a Liberal Government. It is interesting too, that most people think that families on a middle income will be better off under the Liberals. Is the Liberal trick of handing out middle-class welfare now entrenched in our psyche? Is it now expected of them?
But the big question is, why are people likely to vote in a Liberal Government when they clearly believe that most of us would be better off under a Labor Government?
Is it the public perception of Julia Gillard? Do public perceptions carry more weight than what voters consider to be essentially good for the majority of Australians?
The above results suggest a very firm yes.
Moving now to the second piece, Labor’s Woes by Jonathan Tasini:
If you offer people two options to choose from–vote for a lite version of political ideology or the real thing–most people will vote for the real thing. It’s an emotional reaction–not entirely rationale. And, therein, my friends, lies a big problem faced by Labor.
I thought about Labor’s problem this morning after reading a fine column by Ross Gittins, entitled, “Prejudices rule when judging Labor”. I think Gittins misses, or under-emphasizes, two very important points. But, let’s start with what he gets right:
“The conundrum is why so many people could be so dissatisfied when almost all the objective indicators show us travelling well: the economy growing at about its trend rate, low unemployment, low inflation, rising real wages, low government debt – even a low current account deficit”.
That is correct. We got it good here (see: US unemployment above 8 percent, for example). Hang on to that thought for a moment…
“Similarly, only the one-eyed could believe an Abbott government would have much better policies. It’s likely to be less populist in government than it is opposition but, even so, Tony Abbott is no economic reformer”.
Yup. The Empty Suit, leader of the Coalition, is vapid, entirely void of anything to say that is either true, new or useful about the future.
It gets even more bizarre. The Empty Suit, and his shills in business, are so craven, they resort to the Big Lie, as Gittins observes:
“So, for instance, a favourite commercial tactic at present is to search for, and give false prominence to, all stories that portray our almost-dead union movement as a threatening monster about to engulf big business.
Boosting productivity equals making industrial relations law more anti-union. End of story”. [emphasis added]
Ah, yes, the Big Labor fear campaign. Again, The Empty Suit is fully engaged with the American Disease–the Big Labor threat figures prominently in the US where Republicans use it at every turn, even though “Big Labor” is, representing 7 percent in the private sector and maybe 11 percent overall, more like “Big Labor”.
The Prime Minister also has a host of other issues, not the least of which is sexism in politics–there is always a higher barrier women have to leap over when it comes to the judgement of the chattering media and know-it-alls (see: Hillary Clinton–after all, though she may have actually believed in it, her vote for the Iraq War was, at least, partially driven by the conventional wisdom that, to run for president, she had to look “strong” i.e., appear to be willing to spill blood like a man…well, that didn’t work out too well but I digress).
But, Gittins sidesteps two really fundamental points. First, remember where we started? That given the choice between ideological “lite” and the real thing people opt for the real thing. So, for example, if you run around harping, stupidly, about the need to have a balanced budget, which Labor is doing, you sound just like The Empty Suit.
For the love of God, there is no friggin’ debt crisis or even a serious debt problem–as Gittins points out. The end result of sounding like The Empty Suit–government spends too much and needs to cut back–is that (a) it leads to bad policy and people losing their jobs because of an obsession with cutting public sector jobs and (b) voters actually start believing the nonsense.
And voters are inclined, then, to vote for the real thing–because The Empty Suit, and his chorus of ideological midgets, actually hate government.
Second, and to the bigger point–and a bit wonky. People vote not based on reason, but emotion. It is a huge–fatal–mistake to hang on to polls that say Labor’s actual policies are supported. That is a path to defeat.
May I suggest people read “The Political Brain” by Drew Westen. Here is the upshot:
“In politics, when reason and emotion collide, emotion invariably wins. Elections are decided in the marketplace of emotions, a marketplace filled with values, images, analogies, moral sentiments, and moving oratory, in which logic plays only a supporting role. Westen shows, through a whistle-stop journey through the evolution of the passionate brain and a bravura tour through fifty years of American presidential and national elections, why campaigns succeed and fail. The evidence is overwhelming that three things determine how people vote, in this order: their feelings toward the parties and their principles, their feelings toward the candidates, and, if they haven’t decided by then, their feelings toward the candidates’ policy positions”.
The political types, and the wonky types, might not like that. But, if you ignore what people emotionally feel, you are dead politically. And, it seems like this is what Labor is banking on to save its bacon–once people focus on how great are policies are (see: carbon pricing), all will be good.
I ask, how good is that article? Knowing that visitors here are widely read, I also ask has anybody ever seen it before?
My guess is a probable no.
Isn’t it a great pity that excellent articles are being written in the Fifth Estate that slip under the radar into oblivion? Isn’t it also a great pity that this will continue to happen? Isn’t it also a greater pity that such hard-hitting, truth-telling articles will forever be drowned out by our hysterical, manipulative, dishonest, sensationalist, gutless, unfair and unbalanced media in this country?
Has there ever been a greater need for the Fifth Estate to join forces? If we don’t, a lot of what we write will continue to slip under the radar.
Migs, excellent article..a very worthy read. I firmly believe that the current media runs on hysterics, but am hopeful that when the time to vote comes around that “what’s in it for me” will as usual win. What’s in it for me served Howard well with his well-known Howard’s Handouts which achieved nothing long term but did win elections for him.
This is the statement which says it all.
That is, Abbott promises nothing of any value whatsoever, certainly not to the disadvantaged but neither does he promise that there is anything in it for middle Australia.
Abbott has established himself as untrustworthy as far as keeping promises is concerned hence the full-on JuLiar media campaign..a clear attempt by the media to counter Abbott’s own character flaws, by introducing the She Lied media campaign. Therefore when the time comes to vote, it will be as the Independents suggested at the last election: Who is it who is more likely to keep their promises? I believe that the voters will be pondering the same at the next election. Given Abbott’s continuous negativity since becoming LOTO, he is in for a battle to have any election promises considered seriously.
Take the emptiness of any promises, no vision for the future and add in his quite odd public persona and you have a very close election should Abbott still be LOTO at that time.
I’m a No too. One fears that it will not be an evidence-based election, but there is plenty of evidence that it will be a fear-based one. Our strategies for getting the message across needs lots of thought and discussion like this post provides.
‘Has there ever been a greater need for the Fifth Estate to join forces?’
Do you mean left wing 5th Estate?
Migs, great article.
Only the weekend before last I was talking to a man who stated that he voted Liberal, but really didn’t know why.
He even stated that as a small business man, he was done over by the Libs, and it was a Labor government that was by far the best support for him and his business, but he still votes Liberal.
This is the reason why, in this right wing seat of Fisher, and many other safe RW seats, the Libs could nominate Vlad the impaler, and he would get in!
Crazy shit. 🙄
I believe things are changing as far as perceptions are concerned
The perceptions are not jelling with the reality. The PM has grown in stature, and now looks like a PM.
Many may still not like her, but I am sure more now respecting her.
Like a couple of people said at Woodstock, that she came across as human. Should so that type of outing more often.
It is still true that everyone who meets her, comes away impressed.
Yes, perceptions are changing of both. The PM is seen as the one that holds her ground and does not take a backward step. Seen as confident. The other, who runs every time he is confronted, and no longer confident.
Migs, again great article. As the mainstream media model changes so too does the involuntary action to radicalise views…its all very current affair TDT. Selling a good story of bipartisan pride in Australia’s achievements is not a model that can compare with salacious smear and controversy. Mainstream media is washed up, your just smelling the rotting copse of a dead business model mopped up by the truth of new media.
You guessed right, el gordo.
Alright, name three Australian political blogs that you respect?
I can name quite a few. Look at the Blogroll for a start.
That’s not much help.
The Political Sword is woeful and RTB has some nutter discussing UFOs.
And this blog has some nutter going on about global cooling.
Migs, nice comeback. 😆 Nyaaaaahahahahaha
Cheers 😀 😆 😆
The French called what is going on a le bon fascist coup…
The question about which party makes the most money for you has become irrelevant in the age of Milton Friedman and always increase the money supply.
This country was divided before immigration outside of the United Kingdom and now it far far worse. It is the same in every country I mean how can Europeans vote for the ideas that are destroying there own countries?
How wealth is created should be asked and then which parties have the best means of achieving material success. At the moment Australia has the highest credit card debt in the world, our banks are worth more money than the entire european union and the general public still don’t think our banks need regulating nor do we need an inquiry into how this has happened just like the Iraq war out of mind out of sight
Ben, why were you linking to my home computer details?
Hi Migs I really like this and have tried to tell you so with the usual press star button. But as I reported my e-mail at Christmas my gravatar doesn’t come up as it does on other sites. The last time it registered for me was at
Particularly since 23/12/12 I’ve missed my approving gravatar when I damaged my wrist in a fall. Comments are hard work, even though it is good for my circulation to use the fingers of my splinted left hand. I’ve mostly been copying and posting old stuff if it’s relevant over at pbxmastragics where it’s not known. Doesn’t mean I’m not still reading and not liking you all here, particularly our new in-house bard, Truth Seeker.
Anyone have any ideas about what could be happening when I press that star “Like this!” and get the usual green flash/shifting screen and then no signature gravatar left? And on no other sites by the way.
I’m not sure what’s happening. Are you able to do a “screen print”, copy it to an email and send it to me the next time it happens?
My educated guess is that your gravatar is recognised on other sites that use gravatar.com for the recognition of your email address. For instance, I can post at TPS as Miglo even when I’m not logged into WordPress because gravatar.com still recognises me. You should be able to fix it by logging into WordPress again.
If it still doesn’t work, drop me the email with your screen copy.
I see you can type in uppercase again. :).
O Florence I know you think that Julia is some kind of super hero, however I did not know that he has the power to travel back in time:
Her appearance was at Woodford , not Woodstock
‘And this blog has some nutter going on about global cooling.’
Very amusing, its the ‘news before it happens’. A speciality of the modern reporter in the 5th Estate (bipartisan).
Her appearance was at Woodford , not Woodstock.
Iain, you challenge CU for a wording mistake, but when you are challenged regarding the wrong doings of Abbott and his bunch of no hopers , you wont respond, there is a wording for that, and it fits you to a T, it is called GUTLESS WONDER.
Crowey, Iain isn’t happy unless he is being critical of someone. I only wish he’d be willing to provide some criticism of Tony Abbott.
I could live on the dole, says Families Minister Jenny Macklin
Talking of criticisms. Jenny Macklin is deservedly coming in for quite a bit over her living on the dole statement, even from some staunch Left Wing commentators.
It’s not that she at first attempted to skirt round the question and engage in spin, or when asked the question a second time she said “I could”, but the fact that later her office removed her answer from the transcript in a blatant attempt at altering the records.
That was unforgivable.
But this incident does highlight another point in that the Left, even staunch Left Wing commentators, are more than willing to criticise their own when it’s deserved. The same can never be said for the Right, who go around in circles throwing in strawmen, look over there and any other deceit or diversion they can muster rather than criticise any of the Coalition when they rightly deserve it. You can see that daily in spades within this blog.
my apologies if this may sound offensive but is IH trying to crack onto you, in a really weird obsessive way?
great post and to the question asked. yes, definitely in this election year.
‘You can see that daily in spades within this blog.’
That’s not true, I’m sure nils will admit John Howard had some flaws.
Crowey @ 6:59 am
I respond repeatedly about the claims of wrong doing levelled at Tony Abbott Crowey. Further I do so most expansively on these pages, much to the chagrin of many of the (soy)Latte sippers here.
That said I noted the error because I thought it a funny slip of the keyboard
Miglo @ 7:36 am
If you read my blog at all you will notice that my fellow author there, Ray Dixon is a dead set, to the core, Labor man and both he and several commentators attack Tony Abbott on a daily basis in the comments of my posts. That said I do occasionally criticise Tony Abbott, probably more often than you criticise Julia Gillard.
This may be of interest: Why It’s a Privilege to be a Progressive in 2013
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one…
Okay, Miglo, just logged in again via WordPress which seems to recognise when I comment, but didn’t register my gravatar when I told it I liked it at
Same again with this thread, but note we are told that 7 people like it, but there are only six gravatars! Cheers!
Kevin Rennie! Thank you for that article link, very uplifting.
(Miglo, You may smile about my typing, but it bloody hurts after a while when I do it both hands, but Ad Astra, a one time ortho, says I should keep at it where poss to improve circulation and faster healing.)
Hey gordo your hero, snake oil monkton is on tour in Feb…do yo have front row tickets, I heard he’s all frankenfurter under that sheak garb…
“my apologies if this may sound offensive but is IH trying to crack onto you, in a really weird obsessive way?”
I agree but I believe he has problems with my persistent. Does not seem to care what one calls him. Wonder how far I can push.
I assume it is because I get under his skin.
As for making mistakes, I am sorry I said Woodstock instead of Woodford. Funny, I put Woodford first and decided to check. Someone earlier must have made the same mistake. Correct type of place, just wrong country.
Now I am accused of seeing the PM as a hero. Sorry I do not, never have said she is. All I am saying, the PM is doing a better job than he gives her credit for.
My humble apologies to all for not being perfect.
Ms, Macklin got it wrong yesterday answering that question. I would like to remind people, one should not expect to live on unemployment benefits. I say unemployment benefits, not dole. It is meant to support one, until they find employment.
I will also say, it is time to lift these benefits, to cover at least minimum rents and food, which they so not so at this time.
All that has happened, is that this government is extending Howard’s policy of single parents returning to the workforce when the youngest turns eight. These 80 thousand fell through the Howard net. It has to apply to all or to none.
What is important, is not the benefits paid, but whether there is ample support to help these people back to work.
Would have more respect for the Greens if they went down this path.
Yes, it is better for families earn their income from work, rather than living on benefits. Better for the parent concerned.
I believe Cu it’s because Hall sees you as a weakness and like most cowards concentrates his attacks on you because of it.
I think he falsely assumes because you don’t write lucidly and accurately, for reasons we know and are of no consequence as the message is always there, he can dominate you.
He is wrong as always.
That’s my tuppence of across the interwebs psychoanalysis.
Hall just picks on the people he thinks he can dominate, he thinks he can dominate me because he thinks I am poorly educated, not articulate, the one thing hall needs to remember, he himself is not very literate, by just reading his posts, they are full of mistakes, he will also pull apart a persons comments, but not offer anything in return.
The other area where Hall fails, is that he does not back up his arguments, eg Tony Abbott or the LNP on why they would be a better PM or govt, Asylum Seekers and refugees, are another area where he falls down a lot as well, not making a case or backing up what he says, the NBN, school reform, health reform, he offers nothing, and when he does say something, nothing to back up his claims.
Hall is just full of hot air, trolling left wing web sites and criticizing there posts, and If you make a comment on his site criticizing the LNP or TA, you are more likely to be put into moderation or your post deleted, the only real labor person he lets post over their is Ray (piggy) Dixon, but he is a big joke.
Just thought I would have my say on Hall.
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Yes the majority of single parents since 2006 have had to return to work when their child turns eight. All except those that come under Howard’s grandfather clause that ends I believe 2016. Most of the children exempted would be a lot older than eight.
Sorry for spelling Macklin’s name wrong.
Sorry Cu, have to disagree with you for once! I think the PM is a bloody hero! Quite apart from her long acknowledged abilities she has shown extraordinary courage under fire from the dirtiest LOTO ever who is supported by a craven press gallery, frightened for their jobs and doing the bidding of Rupert Murdoch determined to destroy or own the NBN.
The bastards have done her a favour though and demonstrated that if ever there was need of a national leader who could hold a nation together and make wise decisions in crisis we have one here! And she’s not yet in her prime, as I predicted to Peter Hartcher, a while back, who thought her success mid 2011 was all a flash in the pan! ………
Is Our Prime Minister In Her Prime?
Julia Gillard now ‘in her prime?’
You just don’t know how high she’ll climb!
She’ll reach heights even more sublime.
Don’t judge until she’s done her time.
This moment ‘career defining?’
She’s long been Labor’s silver lining!
That’s why News is always whining,
‘Bring her down!’ ‘Get her resigning!’
Pulled ‘a rabbit out of the hat?’
I’m not sure I’d agree with that!
She’ll yet swat Mr. Rabbit ‘SPLAT!’
Put him back in his box, real flat!
ME. I believe it is more about me being a woman. Cannot even bet with me, as he would a man.
I am the only woman here that bites back..
I object to being seen as prey in his games, therefore I see no reason why I cannot have a little fun with him.
It is easy to do.
PS. If what I have said is not lucid in the first place, it sure is after I have finished replying to Hall. I need to thank him for that. He brings out the fight in me.
What I do not see, is a rush of comments agreeing or supporting what he has to say.
Must be lonely to be the one that sits out there alone.
The best thing to do against Hall is to just debate him on the facts, he always looses, he than get angry, changes the topic and begins calling you parts of the animal anatomy
Just like this article from Victoria Rollison,
Facts that’s piss funny Paul… 🙂
‘Those were interesting figures. They show that respondents think most people will be better off under a Labor Government, yet the polls tell us that most people will be likely to vote in a Liberal Government.’
People want progress and they see Labor as backward thinking.
Catching up @ 11:19 am
Well I have been called far worse that your epithets by others Florence that said Sue’s suggestion is just silly.
Not at all, but you are amusing.
It was just funny is all.
Pm as super hero = sarcasm
I agree with you on that Florence the level of the new start allowance is far too low. Möbius Ecko @ 11:42 am
quite the opposite actually Florence is feisty and a worthy adversary, as you are as well Möbius 😉
Florence gives as good as she gets Möbius. paul @ 12:29 pm
😆 Paul Wilson you should talk with the number of mistakes that you make.
I have close to 3000 posts covering a wide range of topic including all of those you nominate above at my own blog. “he fails to back up his argument” is a claim that you make repeatedly but it is to say the least disingenuous because what you really mean is that I fail to convince you. which is an impossible benchmark for any conservative to achieve.
Do you know how many of your comments I allowed before I grew tired of you shtick? It was 107 so don’ you dare suggest that I did no give you good run. In he end I reluctantly put you in moderation in the futile hope that you might become more civil.In fact if you look through my comments threads you will see that I mostly have comments that disagree with me, and or the coalition and many of those comments come from lefties who are more than welcome some have been dropping by the sandpit for years. .
and what a tiresome critic you are Paul Wilson
” It was 107 so don’ you dare suggest that I did no give you good run. In he end I reluctantly put you in moderation in the futile hope that you might become “
How many annoying comments have you been allowed here.
Migs, it appears that Hall agrees, it is OK to block after a certain number are reached.
Iian I continue, you posts are inane factless tossfests never routed in any factual evidentiary reasoning. My problem remains that you consider yourself a worthy adversity when all you are in fact is a fact deficient hyper opinionated pest. Worthy adversity 🙄 town loon more like.
‘adversary’ I think.
As I was sayin’…the people want progress.
Thanks gordo Predicive gst test fest steak ….text 🙄 progress? Nbn.
Ps got those monotone microbrain sorry monotony… Sorry monkton tickets yet?
… visionary progress. The NBN is a good idea and I support the roll out.
Yes Hall, over 3000 post and yet you still have not shown why TA and the LNP should be govt, all you write about is rubbish, no facts to back up your posts, maybe you should start a new blog and call it, This is my Bullshit, no facts needed.
Typical of what you can expect from Abbott. . Newman, like O’Farrell is out of control. Difference is this little rabid terrier is a fucking lying NAZI
Ricky, yes you are right, and I have posted a comment about this subject on States of destruction, with a link to a poem on my site.
Cheers 😀 😀
‘O’Farrell is out of control’, yet still popular.
Catching up @ 6:54 pm
Florence, Paul Wilson was indeed annoying however that was not my reason for introducing him to moderation. The reason was his unrelenting personal attacks upon me.
Ricky (Tory Torcher)
January 2, 2013 @ 7:41 pm
Have you actually read any of my posts apart form the ones I wrote critiquing your opinions?
Some how I think not.
Paul Wilson @ 8:49 am
Every post that I publish about the failings of federal Labor is an argument for the coalition alternative and my blog is literally chock full of that sort of piece. If you can’t appreciate that then you are thicker than you look, which is pretty damn thick to begin with.
Being disingenuous again el gordo. O’Farrell has gone down in approval and his government backwards in the polls as compared to the election. With even a reduced trending rate of the polls O’Farrell will be in deep shit by the time the election comes around.
OK he’s not gone backward anywhere near as spectacularly as Newman, no one on the planet can do that, except for maybe Abbott as a PM, but still O’Farrell his inexorably going backwards. That despite a dream media run and his constant fluff appearance being played up whilst his many failures are played down.
On every measure for the things he constantly and heavily harangued the previous Labor government on he’s doing much worse. All the key things have gone backwards yet he has not elucidated one strategic plan to fix them except to put them to committees a long way down the track. You know those committee things he constantly criticised Labor for.
Oh he has put up one laughable strategic plan and that is his 20 years transport plan that consists almost entirely on toll roads and requiring the Federal government to put in billions to help him out, like the $4 billion Abbott promised, hand on, Abbott unpromised.
Shit O’Farrell even lost a billion dollars.
‘O’Farrell has gone down in approval and his government backwards in the polls as compared to the election.’
The honeymoon is over, but he’s still looking good.
Salusinszky in the Oz on the difference between Qld and NSW.
The honeymoon is over, but he’s still looking good.
Only because he came off such a high base, just like Newman. But if Newman’s collapse had been repeated in NSW O’Farrell would have been in real deep shit.
O’Farrell isn’t travelling well and is slowly but surely going backwards and that’s before he’s really done anything major, but the impact of his expanding failures is being increasingly felt by the people and the longer he delays his election promised urgent fixes the more it means he won’t be able to fix anything as the costs grow exponentially each day he dithers, and he’s doing an awful lot of dithering.
Another beat up Australian piece attempting to fluff up O’Farrell. The Murdoch press have been doing that a lot as they realise they need to prop the failing O’Farrell as the disquiet of his leadership becomes more audible amongst the people.
Anyway wrong thread for this and wrong again for el gordo.
Yes El Gordo
what you say about O’Farrell is essentially still the case with Newman and although he has taken a beating in the public eyes the LNP still retains a very strong lead over the ALP.
el dildo, why do you insist on linking to the LNP daily rag, when everyone here knows that they have zero credibility when it comes to accurately reporting anything other than LNP lies and spin? 👿
O’Farrell is going backwards, with a Labor government that is not doing much. With the Obied scandal taking the headlines.
Not a very good read for the Coalition.
Here we go again..
Tony it’s a SKILLS shortage, not a people shortage..get the difference. How many under 30’s on the dole have the required SKILLS to work on the mines.
The fifth estate is highly fragmented, so it doesn’t matter how good the content is, it will always remain under the radar unless there is a structural shift.
I have a vision of a new media world that promotes stories based on truth, transparency in the community interest. We can’t do that unless there is a new media platform that provides the wide variety of news stories the public expect to read on a daily basis (sport, local, finance, entertainment etc.) in conjunction with content from the 5th estate. This is essential to obtain a critical mass for 5th estate stories to have a wide impact on the community.
I am the founder of Newsflock (launching in beta in the coming months) that aims to provide a platform to enable this structural shift. People want to read a wide variety of content, but the majority don’t have the time or inclination to seek out high quality, well researched content.
Newsflock will provide a social network that aggregates the 5th estate, but also puts it on the same level as the fourth estate. All content can be voted on so the community determines the top stories. Will the top stories be from the 5th estate or 4th? That will be interesting to see…
For those interested in knowing more, you can follow on twitter (@newsflock), pre-register on our website (http://www.newsflock.com) or email me directly ( Chris at newsflock dot com )
If any embers of the 5th estate want to contact me directly, I’d love to talk and share more about the vision of Newsflock.
I’ll also give away 10 invites to the current alpha version to those who email me directly in the next 48 hours.
“I have a vision of a new media world that promotes stories based on truth, ”
Whose truth. There are many versions.
“Whose truth. There are many versions.”
Yes, exactly. You get closer to the truth with more transparency.
For example, Newsflock allows comments to be voted up by visitors to challenge false assertions in the original article and eventually will allow articles to be ranked based on their accuracy as collectively determined by the community.
allow articles to be ranked based on their accuracy as collectively determined by the community.
That’s just downright scary 😯
It’s as bad as truth being determined by one man. One hundred computer users will determine ‘truth’ ❓
Truth just is, liking it or not does not alter it, no matter how much you want it to.
Interesting concept. I believe we in the fifth estate are gradually learning how to spread our word, mostly by networking.
If one looks at history down the centuries, communications have always occurred by word of mouth. This occurred even in the bush.
The bush telegraph was very efficient.
Cyber space is just a new environment for this to continue.
Anything that adds to the process has to be worthwhile.
One needs to keep in mind, majorities can be wrong.
By the way, Happy New Year and all that 😉
Tom, the concept is a little scary, in that it says truth will be established by numbers.
Data, research and investigation has to play a part. Sometimes truth can be unpalatable to all.
In a way, one could say the present MSM is filling that role.
All the best Tom.
“It’s as bad as truth being determined by one man. One hundred computer users will determine ‘truth’”
In reality, the individual decides what “truth” is (despite the reality, ie: some people don’t “believe” in science). Newsflock will not determine “truth”, but it will provide a mechanism for the best arguments to be made clear and discussed in a transparent fashion. This is a significant step up from the current MSM, where it typically is controlled by “one man”.
It’s even more complicated than “truth seeking”. Another design of Newsflock is to try and bring disparate groups together. ie: Those on the left and right (if so desired) can “hang out” in their respective, like minded communities. However, those who are just interested in “politics” will see the collective some of both these groups, hopefully providing a more balanced political view to the general public.
I fundamentally believe that those passionate about truth seeking will outweigh those who want to spin… and Newsflock aims to weed out those who are simply “spinning”.
Another design of Newsflock is to try and bring disparate groups together
That is a great step forward, but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. Heavy moderation is my guess
Good luck with the venture though Newsflock. It is a brave move. Will be interesting how it pans out.
I fundamentally believe that those passionate about truth seeking will outweigh those who want to spin
I fear you will be sadly disappointed. 😦
” TONY Abbott has proposed banning the dole for people under 30 ”
Hall what were you saying about conservatives and social welfare?
Come on Hall, insult my intelligence a litle more why don’t you?
Min I thought you were taking the piss its so ludicrous. This guys mouth is an open sewer not connected to his brain. I’m just glad he is was not addressing a butchers conference as he would be discussing eating the unemployed. 🙄
One wonders why no journo has asked tabot if he can live on $0 a day yet?
And well highlighted Min. A real leader would encourage skills investment (as Labor are trying to do against the liberal states wishes), not just threaten more misery on those without the skills.
Tom, what was the size of that mortgage he took out to keep him in the manner he had become accustom too, after being kicked out of government.
Those from the right are such lovely people.
Who would want these to like one.
What personal attacks Hall, proof of personal attacks, or are they in your imagination, you put me in moderation because you are afraid of defeat.
Stuff like this Paul Wilsion:
Hall, why are you carrying on personal vendettas on this site.
I do not believe we are interested, and it is plain bad manners.
So Hall, that is nor personal abuse, that info is out there for all to see. I have yet to find anything positive on you, as for your site, what info is there to prove that TA and the LN P would be better in government. You have not proved it here or over there. If you want everyone to stop criticizing your comments, prove it instead of doing what you do best.
Iian I reiterate, you dig your own hole and complain? In light of your opinionated fact deficient diatribe, you get off lightly.
• You’re a liar
• Your insulting and condescending
• Your assertions are ridiculous
• You’re a know it all of embarrassing inane predictability
• You never, ever print facts to back up your outrageous claims
• You thing wrapping contradiction drivel in clever language is debate
• You are possibly the worst researched troll I have ever encountered
• You copy, paste comment without any point other than self-opinion
• You have never had an original though in your life
• You’re an intellectual and political pygmy who is an attention whore
• You’re a consistent, repetitive bore.
• You never add anything to debate.
• Your understanding of politics and media is astoundingly bad.
• You are here to have your name in a popular blog.
• You are a piss taker
• You are not funny in the slightest.
Isn’t it time to move on and annoy someone else? We’ll all pitch in for a razor.
Real Journalism and the will of strong women using media to expose truth
Cu, I’m actually starting to believe that Iain’s goal is to disrupt this site.
Miglo, what would make you think that. If that is his aim, he is massively unsuccessful.
Everyone seems to be enjoying sending him up. What amazes me, he does not see it that way.
Abbott digs deep for his next policy
Oh Ricky (tory torcher)
Tony appears to be enjoying the experience of digging for his next policy.
I’m actually starting to believe that Iain’s goal is to disrupt this site.
Bit slow on the uptake there Migs, but you are finally coming around 😉
Ricky, as usual he has headed for the arse, not the udder.
PM on ABC 24. Looks very relaxed and comfortable.
Talking about and giving support to those in fire areas.