On yer bike, Tony

Here’s one from our archives, originally posted in March 2012 under the title On yer bike. As mentioned recently, I’ll be putting up some archived posts while battling through the tiring festive season obligations.

Whilst the post is now nine months old, it will always remain topical given Tony Abbott’s dismal showing in the polls. In March there were rumours running around Canberra that Tony Abbott might be given the shove. He still might. Anyway, here’s a copy of the March post:

I caught by chance a comment yesterday that sounded more like a plea than a throw-away line.

“If the Liberals were a serious political party you’d think they’d get rid of Tony Abbott as leader”.

This came after the social media sites had been abuzz recently with speculation about a possible challenge from Christopher Pyne.  A challenge that never came.

The same rumour had been circling Canberra for a day or so and it is unusual for a political rumour in Canberra to have no basis of fact.  The rumour had us believe that Pyne was enlisting Joe Hockey to get the numbers for him.  It was either untrue, died in the arse, or put on the back burner.

But one day someone will tap Abbott on the shoulder with this message of doom: “On yer bike”.

Let’s indulge ourselves and assume there was some truth in the recent rumour.  But let us not assume that Pyne might be the only contender.  If there were to be a challenge from whom is it likely to come?

To appease the gossipers I’ll start with Pyne.

Christopher Pyne, the Member for Sturt, is a man who likes to indulge in a daily hissy fit whenever he walks into, or is within cooee of, Parliament Houde.  It’s hard to believe that this public character reflects the electorate he represents.  The electorate of Sturt is cluttered within the elite suburbs of Eastern Adelaide.  Shopping centre car parks are packed with BMWs and the centres themselves with expressionless peroxide blondes sipping on lattes and doing nothing else but look rich.  Husbands at work won’t be home until after midnight.  The kids are nearby creating havoc.  Spoiled, noisy, demanding creatures who will have no friends once they realise that life and society expect some sort of contribution or sacrifice.  They present a good case for the return of corporal punishment.  They belong to the cohort group that Pyne has clearly been engaging with in his electorate.  His behaviour imitates them.  I wish he’d talk to their expressionless mums; the ones whose opinions are best kept to themselves, if allowed to have one.  Pyne might gain some respect if he imitated them instead.  If elected as his party’s next leader he will follow in the mold of a failed previous leader and idol of his, Alexander Downer.  He is a serious contender but seriously, is a joke.

Joe Hockey’s electorate also represents the upper echelon of well-to-do Australians.  The constituents are much like Pyne’s mob except most of Hockey’s go to Church on Sundays.  They love Hockey as a God fearing Christian, oblivious to the fact he is a complete goose.  His record as Shadow Treasurer is laughable.  His record in the Howard Government was also laughable, being Howard’s hired gun to sell WorkChoices, which ultimately lost him the election.  He can’t do anything right.  He can’t say anything right.  I doubt he knows how to think.  Oddly, he is very popular and will attract a big fan base as leader.  “Joe for PM” will be the slogan of the right.  He is proof that you don’t need brains to be a politician but it’s unfathomable as to how he made it this far.  He too is a serious contender, but also a serious joke.  At least the leadership will remove him from his current position where he is a complete embarrassment.

It’s incredulous that Abbott hasn’t had Robb deported, or jailed, or kidnapped, as he often goes off in different tangents than his party and leader.  Well, his mouth does at least.  He doesn’t attract trust from the wider community and is considered sneaky and devious.  These are great attributes for a Liberal Party leader but I doubt that Abbott sees him as a threat.  Neither do I.  Robb has personal issues and while his honesty in revealing these is commendable, as well as being a rare step towards transparency, there are those within the party who could easily use these to discredit him if he ever became a threat.  That his name is always circled as a potential leader is hence bewildering.  Do they mean ‘stand in leader until his political career is destroyed?’  He joins Pyne and Hockey as a trio of candidates the least likely to lead their party to an election, let alone an election victory.  I can’t see any of them being cut-out for the job.  They lack brains and balls.

And then there’s Malcolm Turnbull.

Malcolm, where’s your balls? ;-)

118 comments on “On yer bike, Tony

  1. Personally watching Bishop while Abbott was visiting old Oxford mates, is making her run.

    Look how quickly she was put back in the box, as soon as Abbott set down in this country on his return.

    The truth is, at this time, there simply does not seem to be anyone.,

    It is like we are in a time warp, back in the post Menzies period. Look at the contenders that era threw up, including Mr. Howard himself on his first run.

    Took years for a worth while contender to appear.

    I do not see Turnbull as a contender. If so, it only shows how desperate the party is becoming.

  2. Im guessing that Mal’s balls are in Tony’s hands…. some how ??
    Cu, “If so, it only shows how desperate the party is becoming” …. might be a case of “out” with the ‘old christian’ and “in” with the new …. this political ‘jock’ didn’t swap over to sit in the back of the bus with Tony, Prissy, Joey or Mal and swapping school tie ribald………… one wonders if he has W.A. backers…. one wonders who she are 😕
    http://www.avonadvocate.com.au/story/1154725/federal-liberal-candidate-christian-porter-visits-northam/?cs=1517
    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/porter-backs-gina-zone-in-nations-north-20120912-25sgk.html

  3. Abbott cycles away from questions

    * March 24, 2011

    Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has hopped on his bike to avoid reporters keen to quiz him about the abusive behaviour of protesters at a anti-carbon tax rally in Canberra.

    […]

    Mr Abbott yesterday spoke to the rally in front of placards with slogans like “Ditch the witch”, while one banner labelled Prime Minister Julia Gillard “Bob Brown’s bitch”.

    […]

    Mr Abbott made a brief appearance at Parliament House at about 7.30am (AEDT) today on his way to launch the annual Pollie Pedal charity ride in nearby Narrabundah.

    But he wasn’t keen to take any questions about the rally, opting to cycle away.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/abbott-cycles-away-from-questions/story-e6frf7jx-1226027163511

  4. Migs, still pertinent, but;

    According to Iain, anyone could run the party based on his (the troll who knows everything’s) assessment of character attributes required;

    Six personal attributes of character that would make Tony Abbot a worthy Prime Minister.

    Attribute 1: Tony Abbott is not Julia Gillard. 😯
    Attribute 2: Tony Abbott is not Kevin Rudd. 🙄
    Attribute 3: Tony Abbott is not a member of the ALP. 😯 🙄
    Attribute 4: Tony Abbott is not beholden to the corrupt union movement. 😛
    Attribute 5: Tony Abbott is not a bloody Lawyer 😯 🙄 😯
    Attribute 6: Tony Abbott is not claiming victim-hood because of his gender. :mrgreen:

    That makes everyone from Sophie Mirabella to George Pell to Pol Pot or even my Schnauzer Charlie (who is my personal fave) eligible for the LNP top job, so it really is a moot point, and lets face it, any one of them could do as good a job as Abbott, and I think Charlie would do it better! 😛 😀

    Cheers 😀

  5. In the Liberal Party Tony is God. He has seen off Rudd, he has had Gillard on the ropes since the 2010 election and now leads with a 54/46 2PP.
    Nothing much more he can do until Gillard is cornered by time and the Constitution later this year.
    As Gillard approaches her Armageddon she is vandalising the economy and the budget.
    The voters are watching and are angry.
    Gillard has been to worst PM. No ability. No respect for Australia. Contempt for the electorate. Serial dishonesty.
    She is going down and taking her weakling colleagues with her.
    I see the Greens are trying to move to the Right. Bandt is announcing the abandonment of Green principles this morning on Sky News..
    What a waste of 5 years. Squandered opportunities. Squandered Mining Boom. Nothing to show after 5 years except regulation and debt.

  6. Sorry Tweed I could call you out on all of that stupid nonsense you just posted but the polls quote is misleading. I gather you are just picking one poll and not the average of all of them nor the trend.

    The Coalition had a much larger commanding lead a while back and as they normally do getting closer to an election the polls have gotten closer, and will continue to do so unless either the government fucks up in a really big way, unlikely, or Abbott fucks up in a really big way, likely.

    The current polling trend taking into account all polls and averaging them out has less than a two point margin between the parties.

    Then there’s the big one. At one stage at the height of the fallacious attacks against Gillard, before the oppositions total AWU attack debacle, Abbott was ahead of Gillard as preferred PM and even his personal rating though not good, he has never ever had a good personal rating, was at least above that of a sewer rat with rabies. Now it’s lower than a sewer rat with rabies and the rat would be miffed to be compared to Abbott.

    Abbott is sending the Coalition backwards and will continue to do so as long as he remain at their wonky helm.

  7. T…. weed, stand by, the shuttle to planet delusional will be arriving directly, and your connection to the alternate universe that you inhabit will be waiting when you arrive.

    Or maybe you’d rather just take the rubber van to the nut house?

    Nyaaaaahahahahaha 😆 😆

  8. …..well Moby then you have nothing to worry about. The Independents Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie will be forgiven and re embraced by their electorates.
    Gillard will be warmly applauded by the electorate and they are so happy with the last 3 years they are going to give her another 3 years.
    FYI the poll I quotes was Essential which is run by the Union movement so you are probably right.

  9. TS
    Thanks for the citations but you should have acknowledged that I did not include those emoticons in my original 🙂 that is very naughty of you!!! 🙄
    Tweed
    Well put summation except that I would suggest that the Greens have not so much moved their position as they have tried to hide the truth about their policies behind weasel words and euphemisms.

  10. they have tried to hide the truth about their policies behind weasel words and euphemisms

    ^^ Right-Wing Projection! ^^

  11. Silky
    When it comes to telling lies and untruths we conservatives bow to the greater experience and superiority of The latte sippers like your own good self 😉

  12. But Tweed you quoted one poll. That’s cherry picking and rather meaningless in the term of things.

    For example it was you who kept quoting just about every poll here early in the year when they had the opposition winning in a landslide. Each poll giving worse figures for the government and you gloating every time.

    Then the polls inexorably turned around bit by bit and you disappeared.

    So you more than anyone should no the folly of quoting single polls, no matter what their source.

    Also since you bring up Essential. Essential table all their methodology and the demographics they poll, Newpoll does not. They keep it a secret under the guise that revealing the information would give their competitors an advantage.

  13. Why are the trolls on this site such bad liars?

    Whether they’re bad at it or not it’s what right-wingers (have to) do.

  14. “In the Liberal Party Tony is God. He has seen off Rudd, he has had Gillard on the ropes since the 2010 election and now leads with a 54/46 2PP.
    Nothing much more he can do until Gillard is cornered by time and the Constitution later this year.
    As Gillard approaches her Armageddon she is vandalising the economy and the budget.
    The voters are watching and are angry.
    Gillard has been to worst PM. No ability. No respect for Australia. Contempt for the electorate. Serial dishonesty.
    She is going down and taking her weakling colleagues with her.
    I see the Greens are trying to move to the Right. Bandt is announcing the abandonment of Green principles this morning on Sky News..
    What a waste of 5 years. Squandered opportunities. Squandered Mining Boom. Nothing to show after 5 years except regulation and debt.”

    HEAR HEAR!

  15. Migs, Nice return from xmas revisiting these earlier posts has a nice touch. Firstly Pine like his earlier idol “Le Smirk” is all mouth and trousers without any backbone and like Cossie does not have the guts or any other appendage to challenge. Strike 1
    Hockey is popular even my OH likes him, but seeing him sneaking in and out of the rodents pad during their last leadership stouch clearly showed a man who did NOT really want the Job aka Peacock way back. Strike 2.
    Robb the man from LaMancha who was the first to stab Mal in the back like Lazerus from the grave or fit of depression as it was.and uterences from him since indicates he should have stayed there. Strike 3.
    Not looking good so far for the noalition. Which brings us to the witches around the boiling cauldran Bishop squared and everyones favourite our Sophie. Bring back a cutout of Pig Iron Bob he would give a better showing than those mentioned here. So they are stuck with tones to a crashing defeat at the next polls then maybe the young turks get a chance.
    Off to visit my diehard lib next door neighbour at the Canberra hospital now keep the faith fellow whisperers.

  16. Tony Abbott: “There is no dirt unit, there are no dirt files. We don’t operate that way. That’s what Labor does.

    Oh, really, Phony?

    Photo: Tony Abbott chief-of-staff Peta Credlin and Deputy Liberal leader, Julie Bishop. Credlin is holding dirt files. Marked: “Gillard AWU”. Question Time, House of Representatives, 26 November 2012

  17. Sydney Morning Herald, 17 October 2012 [emphasis mine]:

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott never spoke to the co-ordinator at Infrastructure Australia — or his office — about the controversial east-west tunnel in Melbourne, which a Coalition government would fund to the tune of $1.5 billion.

    Mr Abbott had claimed he had consulted the authority before announcing his plan.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/doubts-on-abbotts-tunnel-promise-20121016-27oo3.html

    Remember, to Liberals, liars are revered. Quote Liberal troll:

    In the Liberal Party Tony is God

  18. Phoney’s popularity is lower than the shit on your shoe. Phoney’s popularity is going down. Down among the dead men.

  19. Yes Iain Hall I agree. The Greens have merely re described their positions on a range of wealth re distribution policies to make them sound more mainstream.
    The interesting thing to note is that the Greens felt the need to re-position their image as we approach election time.
    Me thinks there are some ugly internal polls circulating in Labor HQ and Greens HQ. There seems to have been a nose dive in Green support since Uncle Bob departed politics.
    The Spin continues with McTernan moving the Labor election nerve centre to Melbourne. As if this sways voters…… Spin and Delusion…
    I think Gillard will go to the polls in March. Just too many shit sandwiches to chew on as the year progresses. I believe the big one is going to be when Swan has to go cap in hand to Parliament to raise the authorised debt level above the current $300 Billion.

  20. Liberals Liars R us

    The Age, 23 November 2012:

    Independent MP Andrew Wilkie said Mr Abbott’s plan to reduce the [humanitarian refugee] intake was appalling given he offered to increase it during post-election negotiations in 2010.

    “It makes a mockery of Tony Abbott’s offer to me after the 2010 election to increase the humanitarian intake to 20,000, and the same proposal by the Opposition to Senator Sarah Hanson-Young at the time of Rob Oakeshott’s offshore processing bill,” Mr Wilkie said.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/gillard-accuses-abbott-of-stoking-asylum-fear-20121123-29xcj.html

    From increase to reduce…more lies from the Lies Not Policies LNP party.

  21. I think that the LNP don’t understand the concept of truth, they just seem to think that as long as they say it it must be right, or if they say something loud enough and often enough, it magically becomes truth, no matter what evidence is out there to prove otherwise, and the trolls here seem to be under the same delusion.

    Many would call it sociopathy! 😦

    Cheers 😦

  22. The right accuse us of being in lockstep here but here is Tweed engaging in a circle jerk with his fellow nutjobs. All we now need is Treeman to pipe up hear! hear! and the jerk off is complete.

  23. ‘I see the Greens are trying to move to the Right. Bandt is announcing the abandonment of Green principles this morning on Sky News..’

    Realpolitik

  24. I for one thought it a laid down misere, Abbott would have been given his marching orders by now. The Liberal party must have, like I did, thought Gillard would have been replaced by now with Rudd. Now this is off the agenda and Labor is coming back in the polls, they must be in a bit of a panic now they realise, they are saddled with the half wit Abbott, who makes Billy Mc Mahon look like Albert Einstein.

    For mine, I think there will be a shake up, but I think it will be J. Bishop who gets the arse. She thinks ‘ Foreign Affairs ‘ is a term for having sex with another person outside of marriage in some exotic place like Bali. The Labor party should if not already, be forming their election campaign around her involvement with James Hardie. They should include pictures of Bernie Banton in an oxygen mask. The Labor party should leave no stone unturned to dig up the past of this Liberal party filth. A bit of pay back is in order.

  25. P.J.@ 3:36 pm

    I for one thought it a laid down misere, Abbott would have been given his marching orders by now.

    Well you were wrong…

    The Liberal party must have, like I did, thought Gillard would have been replaced by now with Rudd. Now this is off the agenda and Labor is coming back in the polls, they must be in a bit of a panic now they realise, they are saddled with the half wit Abbott, who makes Billy Mc Mahon look like Albert Einstein.

    Abbott is no fool he is a well disciplined political warrior which is precisely why you wish him out of the leadership.

    For mine, I think there will be a shake up, but I think it will be J. Bishop who gets the arse. She thinks ‘ Foreign Affairs ‘ is a term for having sex with another person outside of marriage in some exotic place like Bali. The Labor party should if not already, be forming their election campaign around her involvement with James Hardie. They should include pictures of Bernie Banton in an oxygen mask. The Labor party should leave no stone unturned to dig up the past of this Liberal party filth. A bit of pay back is in order.

    Its underestimating the opposition front bench that leads you to make so many wildly wrong predictions PJ and why you are such a hoot

  26. Iain, you keep saying our predictions are wrong. Please give us one example.

    Can give plenty of Abbott’s that have proven to be wrong. Not one of his dire predictions have come true. Not one.

  27. Abbott is no fool he is a well disciplined political warrior which is precisely why you wish him out of the leadership.

    I’m sorry, Iain, but that made me choke on my coffee.

    Do you want me to delete it for you? I’d hate you to suffer the embarrassment of it being seen by others. :mrgreen:

  28. This is the person Abbott chose for the Shadow FINANCE portfolio…

    Key independents berate “fool” Barnaby Joyce

    The Age, 22 August 2010

    Two of the independents whose vote appears crucial to forming a minority government have expressed loathing for Barnaby Joyce, one of the Coalition’s most prominent frontbenchers.

    … Bob Katter and Tony Windsor have derided Mr Joyce; with one calling him a fool and the other labelling him a “piece of incredible unfortunateness.”

    […Bob Katter:] ”And (Nationals Senate Leader) Barnaby Joyce…a similar piece of incredible unfortunateness.”

    […]Asked about the insulting remarks, Mr Joyce said he had broad shoulders and had been called worse.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/key-independents-berate-fool-barnaby-joyce-20100822-13aen.html

    Abbott’s judgement …in the toilet!

  29. Iain, you remind me of people from my father’s generation, that live through the great depression, spent the rest of their lives predicting it would come again.

    Sure, being Capitalism, it sure will, but they were a half a century out in their predictions. Mr. Rudd and Labor also showed that some had learned since the 1930’s. Not the Opposition though, who wanted to go down the path of the 1930’s.

    Yes, Labor will be defeated sometime in the future, That is a sign of a healthy democracy.

    In the near future, I do not believe so. Mainly because your Tony has not done the work, to bring that prediction about.

    No, your mob is grasping at straws, that lead nowhere.

    Just one prediction of Tony’s that has come to fruition. Just one. I am, not greedy. Maybe, you can add one of yours. You have made many.

  30. Just one prediction of Tony’s that has come to fruition. Just one.

    They can’t even give one reason Abbott deserves the job. Despite having now two threads open to them, gathering more than 800 comments in total, the RWFs have come up with …nothing.

    Says it all, doesn’t it.

    All Spin No Substance.

  31. Looks like Karma might be paying Abbott and the Liars Party an extended visit in 2013. An election year it is, too.. 😀

  32. Catching up @ 6:04 pm

    Iain, you keep saying our predictions are wrong. Please give us one example.

    Florence I said that PJ’s predictions were wrong because he admited that himself, not that all of the collective’s predictions were wrong (even though they have been wrong so very often) Miglo @ 6:05 pm

    I’m sorry, Iain, but that made me choke on my coffee. Do you want me to delete it for you? I’d hate you to suffer the embarrassment of it being seen by others. :mrgreen:

    Thanks for the offer Migs but I’m good with letting it stand as it is. Catching up @ 6:14 pm

    Does (any)one get the feeling that Hall has problems with female politicians.

    Not at all Florence, the only ones that I have “problems” with are the sleazy and the inept no matter what their gender happens to be. Cuppa @ 6:16 pm

    This is the person Abbott chose for the Shadow FINANCE portfolio… Key independents berate “fool” Barnaby Joyce Abbott’s judgement …in the toilet!

    Your source for this claim is a total joke Cuppa Catching up @ 6:22 pm

    Iain, you remind me of people from my father’s generation, that live(d) through the great depression, spent the rest of their lives predicting it would come again.

    I have agreat deal of respect for those who lived through the great depression and WW2 Florence because they spent the rest of their lives being frugal and cautious, I respect the way that they prioritized their finances ( roof, tucker, and then fun) and I respected the way that they would always be willing to share what little they had because they had known hard times.

    Sure, being Capitalism, it sure will, but they were a half a century out in their predictions. Mr. Rudd and Labor also showed that some had learned since the 1930′s. Not the Opposition though, who wanted to go down the path of the 1930′s.

    Twenty years ago I might have thought like you do, might have had may thinking framed by bowdlerised marxist thinking about society and the creation of wealth but not anymore we need the incentives of free enterprise and individual efforts and we also need the social safety net for a truly civil society.

    Yes, Labor will be defeated sometime in the future, That is a sign of a healthy democracy.

    I suggest that it will ne sooner than you think.

    In the near future, I do not believe so. Mainly because your Tony has not done the work, to bring that prediction about.

    But Julia and Labor have done so much of it for the opposition, from that fateful “there will be no Carbon tax under a government I led” promise to the dead set certain Surplus in 2013 Gillard has been building the scaffold for her own demise.

    No, your mob is grasping at straws, that lead nowhere.

    No its Labor who are desperately grasping Not the coalition.

    Just one prediction of Tony’s that has come to fruition. Just one. I am, not greedy. Maybe, you can add one of yours. You have made many.

    Well that is easy Florence Tony predicted that Labor would never bring down a budget that was actually in surplus and guess what? he is dead set right! as for my own humble predictions well when Rudd and Gillard dismantled the pacific solution I predicted that it would be a disaster for Labor and it is!

  33. “He has a vision to grow Australia.”

    Where did this wondrous vision come from. Was it handed down from above.

    No, Hall, once again, you have it wrong. Was not talking about PJ’s predictions. I was talking about Tony’s and those from your mob.

    We hear so much from your side of the fence how we get it all wrong. NO proof that we have by the way.

    Just one that you or Tony got right.

  34. el drongo:

    He has a vision to grow Australia.

    Ahem.

    I’m sure Abbott has all sorts of “visions”. Like talking serpents, angels dancing on the head of a pin, having conversations with his Friend in the Sky. A vision that Whyalla would be “wiped off the map”. That he would be PM by last Christmas. That SerfChoices was “good for wages, good for jobs”…. All sorts of “visions”

    1)
    Abbott ‘mad as a cut snake’: Hawke

    2)
    Paul Keating ridicules ‘nutter’ Tony Abbott

  35. Hall, maybe not surpluses, but well and truly on the way there. We will have a little deficit, not the little surpluses they were aiming for.

    Not much difference in the scheme of things, It is also the right action for this time.

    Just, just a little later. Most economists also suspected it was too hard.

    One does not have control over outside influence. Just not the right time to cut further, to bring one in.

    Yes, when circumstances change, some do change their actions.

    One fears that Tony is not CAPABLE OF THIS.

    He is the only one that is saying, not bringing in that surpluses is a bad thing.

    There is more to good governance than budget surpluses and debt. Much more.

    Yes, that is one prediction that many said would not occur. Not very hard when ore prices take a dive, and receipts disappeared.

    Will have to do better.

  36. Paul and Bob would say that, a couple of larrikins.

    So if he says he wants to grow Australia, what is your good opinion on that?

  37. What is your brief for Abbott, el drongo? You want SerfChoices back, that must be it. That’s their core policy and reason for being as a party. So you want your neighbours and loved ones to have their job security abolished, wages and conditions stripped away. Nice types, RWFs are…

  38. DUBLIN — Over the last three years, with its economy in tatters, Ireland embraced a novel strategy to help reduce its staggering deficit: charging households and businesses for the environmental damage they cause.

    Times Topic: Ireland

    The government imposed taxes on most of the fossil fuels used by homes, offices, vehicles and farms, based on each fuel’s carbon dioxide emissions, a move that immediately drove up prices for oil, natural gas and kerosene. Household trash is weighed at the curb, and residents are billed for anything that is not being recycled.

    The Irish now pay purchase taxes on new cars and yearly registration fees that rise steeply in proportion to the vehicle’s emissions.

    Environmentally and economical……………

    ………………Yet when the Irish were faced with new environmental taxes, they quickly shifted to greener fuels and cars and began recycling with fervor. Automakers like Mercedes found ways to make powerful cars with an emissions rating as low as tinier Nissans. With less trash, landfills closed. And as fossil fuels became more costly, renewable energy sources became more competitive, allowing Ireland’s wind power industry to thrive.

    Even more significantly, revenue from environmental taxes has played a crucial role in helping Ireland reduce a daunting deficit by several billion euros each year.

    The three-year-old carbon tax has raised nearly one billion euros ($1.3 billion) over all, including 400 million euros in 2012. That provided the Irish government with 25 percent of the 1.6 billion euros in new tax revenue it needed to narrow its budget gap this year and avert a rise in income tax rates……………

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/science/earth/in-ireland-carbon-taxes-pay-off.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121228&_r=0

  39. ‘Mr Abbott says workers on 457 visas are “the best immigrants”, who contribute immediately to the economy and provide the best long-term workers when they convert their visas to permanent residency. The current skilled migrant intake is 125,850 people.

    “Provided they are paid the same wages and provided there aren’t Australians who could readily fill these jobs, businesses should be able to bring in the workers they need to keep growing, and create more local jobs,” Mr Abbott will say in a speech to be delivered today.

    “A stronger economy is in everyone’s interests; immigrants who contribute to a stronger economy improve the life of every Australian.

    “Under a Coalition government, section 457 visas won’t be just a component, but a mainstay of our immigration program.

    Shanahan in the Oz last April

  40. Catching up @ 7:07 pm

    No, Hall, once again, you have it wrong. Was not talking about PJ’s predictions. I was talking about Tony’s and those from your mob.

    We hear so much from your side of the fence how we get it all wrong. NO proof that we have by the way.

    Just one that you or Tony got right.

    Provided abovebut just to make it entirely clear I will post the specific answer again”

    Well that is easy Florence Tony predicted that Labor would never bring down a budget that was actually in surplus and guess what? he is dead set right! as for my own humble predictions well when Rudd and Gillard dismantled the pacific solution I predicted that it would be a disaster for Labor and it is!

    Catching up @ 7:21 pm

    Hall, maybe not surpluses, but well and truly on the way there. We will have a little deficit, not the little surpluses they were aiming for.
    Not much difference in the scheme of things, It is also the right action for this time.

    Ah you have gone back and seen that I did meet your challenge after all eh? That said you are now trying to move the goal posts:

    Just, just a little later. Most economists also suspected it was too hard.

    Which makes Labor look stupid, duplicitous or both for insisting up until Julia conveniently goes on holiday that there would be a guaranteed surplus.

    One does not have control over outside influence. Just not the right time to cut further, to bring one in.

    Yes, when circumstances change, some do change their actions.

    But the Abbott prediction was absolutely on the money and you are wrong!

    One fears that Tony is not CAPABLE OF THIS.

    He is the only one that is saying, not bringing in that surpluses is a bad thing.

    The foundations of labor’s financial woes goes right back to their mad panic over the GFC and they have not improved since

    There is more to good governance than budget surpluses and debt. Much more.

    Yes, that is one prediction that many said would not occur. Not very hard when ore prices take a dive, and receipts disappeared.

    Sure but Labor made the bad call and insisted on the impossible long after your experts were warning them of the folly of doing so.

    Will have to do better.

    Labor certainly will and so to will you Florence 😉

  41. Shanahan in the Oz last April

    ….And Shanahan WOULD say that, wouldn’t he, el drongo. One of the most notorious Coalition spinners in the MSM (and that’s saying something!)

    El drongo spends many hours per day on this blog, pushing climate change denial crap. (“The Earth is COOLING”!) That propaganda serves the interests of some of the wealthiest individuals on the planet, including the world’s richest woman, Gina Rinehart.

    Rinehart advocates lower wages for Australian workers. She says Australians should look to the example of Africans, who work for $2 per day.

    El drongo spins for Abbott, spins for Rinehart. SerfChoices is EXACTLY what el drongo wants to inflict on their neighbours and loved ones. That, and dirtier, more polluted air.

  42. You’re a grub, el drongo. You spin for Rinehart who wants your neigbours and loved ones to work for $2.00 per day. You are obsessed with helping her oppose a mechanism (the “carbon tax) to reduce the amount of pollution this country puts into the air.

    Wages of $2.00 per day + dirtier air for your kids to breathe. That’s it isn’t it, grubbo.

    You’d better hope like hell there is no such thing as karma, because there’s a lot of it being stored up…

  43. And of course there’s our star determining how much energy we receive.

    Weather betting is the purest form of the art.

  44. So if he says he wants to grow Australia, what is your good opinion on that?

    He would have NFI where to start. Consider the efforts of several conservative State governments – these are Abbott lite and are trashing their respective economies with misplaced extreme “austerity” measures.

    Contrast that with Shinzō Abe who starts with government debt of 230% of GDP, and current budget defecits of 7-9% GDP, but seems to be making the right economic noises.

    Be interested to hear MJ’s take on Abe’s moves…

  45. Iain, I think you are very much mistaken. Liealot is a great campaigner for the ALP, who will doubtless be investigating his role in the slush fund to prosecute Pauline Hanson and his subsequent stonewalling and lies to the AEC and the Parliament while he was a Government Minister.

    I think it warrants a judicial inquiry at the very least into his behaviour as a Minister. It certainly provides a valuable insight into his lack of scruples or morals.

    Then there is his role in the AWB scandal and more lying to cover his tracks, his treatment of a dying man and the more recent lying about his knowledge of the roles of Brough, Prissy, Brandis, Ashby and Doane in the plot to falsely accuse the Speaker of the House of sexual harassment in an attempt to bankrupt him in order to bring down the government.

    Then there are the myriad other blatant lies wrt the carbon price, the lies about power bills, about Alcoa, about job losses should the carbon price be introduced. The list is endless, as is your endless repetition of Liealot’s lie wrt the carbon price.

    Julia Gillard did indeed say that there would be no carbon tax under a government which she leads and she has kept to her word. There is no carbon tax and no matter how many lies you and your fellow Liars barrackers tell, the facts speak for themselves.

    Maybe you would all be better served asking yourselves why three Independent MPs from the CONSERVATIVE side of politics, chose not to place any confidence or credence in any promises Liealot made to them, choosing instead to place their confidence in a LABOR PM and continuing to do so?

    You all consistently refuse to provide lucid or persuasive arguments as to why Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie-all at one time either National or Liberal MPs- chose not to hand the PMship to Liealot.

    The best any of you can do is to resort to personal abuse of the three. None of you it seems, has the courage to articulate the obvious-Liealot is an untrustworthy, duplicitous liar. Don’t forget, Windsor and to a lesser extent Oakeshott, has had dealings with Liealot for many years. Despite being shafted by the Rodent, Wilkie still sought Liars preselection.

    All three are from the Conservative side of politics, so why did they not give Liealot the nod in 2010 and why do they still continue to withhold their support?

    And will you continue to support him if he is found to have breached the Criminal Code while acting (very poorly) as a government Minister?

  46. Quote 7.30 Report, 26 August 2003:

    … Back in 1998, Tony Abbott repeatedly insisted in this ‘Four Corners’ interview that he had not bankrolled Mr Sharples’ court action or indeed that there was any fund.

    REPORTER, ‘FOUR CORNERS’, 1998: So there was never any question of any party funds or other funds from any other source —

    TONY ABBOTT, FEDERAL LIBERAL MP: Absolutely not.

    REPORTER: ..being offered to Terry Sharples?

    TONY ABBOTT: Absolutely not.

    REPORTER: He told us at one point a different story.

    TONY ABBOTT: Really?

    REPORTER: There were never any discussions about money?

    TONY ABBOTT: Look, I was aware that Terry didn’t regard himself as particularly flush with funds.

    REPORTER: Is there any possibility that the Liberal Party actually does have a special fund to push cases like this?

    TONY ABBOTT: Look, if there is — and I doubt that there is — if there is, Tony, you should ask someone else.

    HEATHER EWART: Now it emerges that Tony Abbott was the man to be asking all along…

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s932651.htm

  47. baccus

    Quantitive easing might be the go, infrastructure spending, anything to inflate the country out of this depressing spiral.

  48. Iain I am not going to analysis your points line by line. But! general thoughts are.

    You were adamant as was I, Rudd would be back, at least have the good grace to admit that’s where your money was. Otherwise it will only confirm what most people on this blog believe, you are narcissisticic half wit

    Iain, Abbott is your man, but spare me the bullshit he is some paragon of virtue. Because polishing a turd, still gives you a turd. It is obvious, yes Abbott has lifted his game for appearance sake. However just getting rid of the verbal staccato delivery the poor half wit was born with, will not be enough to win him office. Abbott is the stereo typical bogan. He walks around like he is carrying a sheep under each arm, and would not look out of place running an illegall still in the deep south of Alabama.

    He thinks, and it is obvious to anyone that has been around, he is a hard man. My daughter could turn this pillock over, in a pillow fight. I can give him 20 yrs, but, as they say, anytime, anywhere. Abbott is a cup cake, with out the icing.I have more muscles in my scrotum than this puny excuse for a human being has, in his whole body. He is a media beat up in the body department. I have seen a fitter looking corpse..

    Yes, he has mugs like you and your ilk fooled, there is no doubt about it, anyone not seeing through this cup cake, has a bad perception problem.

    The rest of your diatrribe is as per usual, true to form.

    Yep you’re right, I don’t like Abbott.

    Happy New Year.

  49. There was some argument here about the current state of the polls. On twitter,the Ghost who Votes has just reported “#Newspoll Oct-Dec Quarterly 2 Party Preferred: ALP 48 (+2) L/NP 52 (-2)” That is remarkably close!

  50. This is what Hall has to say about Abbott and the LNP policies,

    Abbott has enunciated the general direction of the Coalition’s policies and we will get more detail as the election draws CLOSER. In any event its better to have no policies rather than the ALP under Gillard’s BAD policies

    I am glad Hall has stated what he thinks of the LNP policies, no policies at all.

    Now what are the bad policies, we know one that is bad, the asylum seeker policy, what are the other bad policies Hall.

  51. El G ….such a gas….
    “Do you want me to delete it for you? I’d hate you to suffer the embarrassment of it being seen by others” ….. oops to late……
    . and another
    “Weather betting is the purest form of the art”. ….. I’d wager that you wouldn’t bet on that……. but then again of course you would….. say one thing do another = El Gassyarse…… you and your one liners 😀

  52. archiearchive FCD @10:47 pm

    Anthony Green had a piece on the TPP margins and winning elections.

    Labor can win with 48.5% of the TPP and will win with 49% or better. Howard won elections with 49% but no party has won with 48% TPP, though it’s feasible to win with that TPP.

    This is why the opposition became so worried as the trend edged towards the 48 to 49% mark and you saw them launch into a vicious smear and fear campaign that barely moved the polls and sent Abbott’s personal rating lower.

    It’s also why the media get it wrong when they say there will be a Labor wipe out with a TPP at 48:52 to the Coalition. Fact is as you say it’s very close especially when you take into account the 2 to 3% margin of error in the polls.

  53. Labor Senator Doug Cameron calls out the Coalition for Right Wing Projection.

    Liberal senator Abetz claims Labor / Greens are involved in “class warfare”… while the Coalition want bus drivers, restaurant workers and boilermakers to subsidise Gina Rinehart, Twiggy Forest and Clive Palmer.

    Who’s indulging in “class warfare”, Abetz?

  54. Speaking of Right Wing Projection, fascists manipulating the public…

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott constantly accuses the Prime Minister of ‘lying’ when she made a commitment before the last election not to introduce a tax on carbon. But who’s the liar here?

    […]

    Ironically, Abbott calling what Australia’s Prime Minister said a ”lie” may itself be an example of what Adolf Hitler called a ”big lie”, that is a lie so ”colossal” it has a ”certain force of credibility” because the populace ”would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously” (Mein Kampf, volume I, chapter X).

    For the repetitions, just watch the TV and listen to the radio. Every time an opposition politician gets the opportunity, they repeat the ”lie” claim over and over again. This happens with such predictable regularity it cannot be mere coincidence. There is clearly a conscious, concerted and calculated propaganda campaign of Goebbels-esque proportions under way.

    Read on http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/taxing-the-truth-why-we-must-not-let-abbotts-dogmas-lie-20120706-21mlz.html

    ( The Age, 07 July 2012 )

  55. That’s always been a thing about the Liberals and their wealthy base of supporters Cuppa. They scream class warfare whenever any move or utterance is made to have them contribute more to society or to cut their considerable welfare handouts and subsidies yet they engage in class warfare at every turn.

    And make no bones about it, Abbott will engage in a full scale class war if elected. He will follow Newman in slashing and burning those things the less advantaged need whilst being generous in handouts to himself and the wealthy in society,

  56. jane @ 8:25 pm

    Iain, I think you are very much mistaken. Liealot is a great campaigner for the ALP, who will doubtless be investigating his role in the slush fund to prosecute Pauline Hanson and his subsequent stonewalling and lies to the AEC and the Parliament while he was a Government Minister.

    If they try that futile path it will do them no favours.

    I think it warrants a judicial inquiry at the very least into his behaviour as a Minister. It certainly provides a valuable insight into his lack of scruples or morals.

    You would think that Jane because you are desperate to save Gillard’s arse.

    Then there is his role in the AWB scandal and more lying to cover his tracks, his treatment of a dying man and the more recent lying about his knowledge of the roles of Brough, Prissy, Brandis, Ashby and Doane in the plot to falsely accuse the Speaker of the House of sexual harassment in an attempt to bankrupt him in order to bring down the government.

    What treatment of What dying man?

    Then there are the myriad other blatant lies wrt the carbon price, the lies about power bills, about Alcoa, about job losses should the carbon price be introduced. The list is endless, as is your endless repetition of Liealot’s lie wrt the carbon price.

    You have about the mist severe case of pernicious confirmation bias I have ever seen Jane and I suspect atht it is utterly immune to treatment.

    Julia Gillard did indeed say that there would be no carbon tax under a government which she leads and she has kept to her word. There is no carbon tax and no matter how many lies you and your fellow Liars barrackers tell, the facts speak for themselves.

    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then its no chicken no matter how you cook it.

    Maybe you would all be better served asking yourselves why three Independent MPs from the CONSERVATIVE side of politics, chose not to place any confidence or credence in any promises Liealot made to them, choosing instead to place their confidence in a LABOR PM and continuing to do so?

    They hate the National party with a vengeance and Gillard was willing to give them the biggest bribes to support her.

    You all consistently refuse to provide lucid or persuasive arguments as to why Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie-all at one time either National or Liberal MPs- chose not to hand the PMship to Liealot.

    They made their own decisions for their own reasons, lacking the ability to read minds all that I can do is guess why they backed Gillard and my best guess is that they thought that they would get the most personal gain out of the deal sespecially as they expected that Abbott would consider going to the polls earlier and making them an irrelevance at the first opportunity

    The best any of you can do is to resort to personal abuse of the three. None of you it seems, has the courage to articulate the obvious-Liealot is an untrustworthy, duplicitous liar. Don’t forget, Windsor and to a lesser extent Oakeshott, has had dealings with Liealot for many years. Despite being shafted by the Rodent, Wilkie still sought Liars preselection.

    So what you are saying is mush the same as I am articulating namely that they all acted out of self interest ratehr than the best interest of the nation.

    All three are from the Conservative side of politics, so why did they not give Liealot the nod in 2010 and why do they still continue to withhold their support?

    Personal gain and self interest Jane, its that simple.

    And will you continue to support him if he is found to have breached the Criminal Code while acting (very poorly) as a government Minister?

    Yer dreamin Jane, can I suggest that you avoid too much cheese before bedtime in future?

    P.J. @ 9:49 pm

    Iain I am not going to analysis your points line by line. But! general thoughts are.

    You were adamant as was I, Rudd would be back, at least have the good grace to admit that’s where your money was. Otherwise it will only confirm what most people on this blog believe, you are narcissistic half wit

    I am not the only person who writes at my blog PJ, my fellow author Ray Dixon is the one who has been hot to trot for a return of Brother Number One (Rudd) I have been profoundly amused by the machinations of his support base with in the party and the way the battle between him and Gillard has played out at times I thought that Rudd may just pull it off but I have never really had money on the result.

    Iain, Abbott is your man, but spare me the bullshit he is some paragon of virtue. Because polishing a turd, still gives you a turd. It is obvious, yes Abbott has lifted his game for appearance sake. However just getting rid of the verbal staccato delivery the poor half wit was born with, will not be enough to win him office. Abbott is the stereo typical bogan. He walks around like he is carrying a sheep under each arm, and would not look out of place running an illegal still in the deep south of Alabama.

    I would not and nor have I ever claimed that Abbott is a paragon of virtue My position has always been that he is better than Gillard , admittedly that is a low bar to clear, but when we have a choice of government and PM that is what it boils down to isn’t it? I know that he is not perfect but no one is.

    He thinks, and it is obvious to anyone that has been around, he is a hard man. My daughter could turn this pillock over, in a pillow fight. I can give him 20 yrs, but, as they say, anytime, anywhere. Abbott is a cup cake, with out the icing.I have more muscles in my scrotum than this puny excuse for a human being has, in his whole body. He is a media beat up in the body department. I have seen a fitter looking corpse..

    Well personally I wish that I was half as physically fit as Abbott so clearly is and I’ll reserve judgement on your daughter’s pugilistic pillow skills until I see some evidence.

    Yes, he has mugs like you and your ilk fooled, there is no doubt about it, anyone not seeing through this cup cake, has a bad perception problem.

    I may be wrong about Abbott but I am not wrong about Gillard and Labor which I way I think that Abbott is a better bet for the future of this country than any government led by Labor.

    The rest of your diatribe is as per usual, true to form.

    Yep you’re right, I don’t like Abbott.

    Happy New Year.

    Well maybe you had better learn to like him because I expect him to be PM for quite a while…

    paul Wilson @ 11:51 pm

    This is what Hall has to say about Abbott and the LNP policies,

    Abbott has enunciated the general direction of the Coalition’s policies and we will get more detail as the election draws CLOSER. In any event its better to have no policies rather than the ALP under Gillard’s BAD policies

    I am glad Hall has stated what he thinks of the LNP policies, no policies at all.

    Now what are the bad policies, we know one that is bad, the asylum seeker policy, what are the other bad policies Hall.

    Isn’t the policy on Asylum seekers bad enough for you Paul Wilson? It has cost the nation Billions of dollars and laid waste to ALP credibility and shown that they have no ability to understand the consequences of the things that they do.

    As for more bad policies try the Carbon tax on for size, it does nothing for the environment, less for the climate and it spends billions on useless “Green energy” schemes

    Solar panel rebates are another useless policy that just drive up the costs of power to the ordinary Aussies who don’t have PV units on their roofs and they add nothing of substance to the grid.

  57. And we have Hall, with his usual, repetitive tirade, that amounts to very little. One never knows, one day he might have something new to say. Well, miracles do happen, they say.

    Still does not distract from the fact, supported by much evidence, that Abbott is little more than serial liar, and lover of spin. A man that can only focus on one thing at a time.

    Yes, Hall, that is one fact, that even you cannot avoid.

    By the way, the SA has found a way to bring electric costs down by 9% in the new year. I believe before the next election, we will see this elsewhere across the nation.

    Yes, the new year holds much promise. Yes, this in spite of a fragile global economy.

  58. “Yer dreamin Jane, can I suggest that you avoid too much cheese before bedtime in future?”

    Share your dreams Jane. Maybe you can let us have the name of that cheese.
    Maybe Hall could try some. Would make him less contrarian.

    Rules for Contrarians: 1. Don’t whine. That is all — Crooked Timber
    crookedtimber.org/…/rules-for-contrarians-1-dont-whine-that-is-all/22 Oct 2009 – In general, contrarians ought to have thick skins, because their entire raison d’etre is the giving of intellectual offence to others. So don’t whine, ..

    ………..Once people with a strong political or ideological bent latch onto an issue, it becomes hard to have a reasonable discussion; once you’re in a political mode, the focus in the discussion changes. Everything becomes an attempt to protect territory. Evidence and logic becomes secondary, used when advantageous and discarded when expedient. What should be a rational debate becomes a personal and venal brawl.

    Okay, point one. The whole idea of contrarianism is that you’re “attacking the conventional wisdom”, you’re “telling people that their most cherished beliefs are wrong”, you’re “turning the world upside down”. In other words, you’re setting out to annoy people. Now opinions may differ on whether this is a laudable thing to do – I think it’s fantastic – but if annoying people is what you’re trying to do, then you can hardly complain when annoying people is what you actually do. If you start a fight, you can hardly be surprised that you’re in a fight. It’s the definition of passive-aggression and really quite unseemly, to set out to provoke people, and then when they react passionately and defensively, to criticise them for not holding to your standards of a calm and rational debate. If Superfreakonomics wanted a calm and rational debate, this chapter would have been called something like: “Geoengineering: Issues in Relative Cost Estimation of SO2 Shielding”, and the book would have sold about five copies…………..

    .
    http://crookedtimber.org/2009/10/22/rules-for-contrarians-1-dont-whine-that-is-all/

  59. Hall, Abbott has hijacked the asylum seekers legalization. He has what he demanded. Trouble is, that it has made matters worse.

    His pigheadedness has led to to this ugly place we now see ourselves in.

    The answer can be found in Abbott’s court.

    The experts, once again have been proven correct. Abbott was told his way would not work.

  60. Catching up@ 9:05 am

    And we have Hall, with his usual, repetitive tirade, that amounts to very little. One never knows, one day he might have something new to say. Well, miracles do happen, they say.

    Florence if you find my responses repetitive then maybe you should consider that they are thus because the material that the collective gives me to work with is likewise repetitive.

    Still does not distract from the fact, supported by much evidence, that Abbott Gillard is little more than serial liar, and lover of spin. A (wo)man that can only focus on one thing at a time.

    There I fixed you mistake for you Florence 😉

    Yes, Hall, that is one fact, that even you cannot avoid.

    True none of us can avoid the fact of Gillard’s estrangement from the truth…

    By the way, the SA has found a way to bring electric costs down by 9% in the new year. I believe before the next election, we will see this elsewhere across the nation.

    Citation and your reasoning on this if you don’t mind Florence 😉

    Yes, the new year holds much promise. Yes, this in spite of a fragile global economy.

    But a greater promise if we get rid of the Gillard government.

    Catching up@ 9:14 am

    “Yer dreamin Jane, can I suggest that you avoid too much cheese before bedtime in future?”

    Share your dreams Jane. Maybe you can let us have the name of that cheese.
    Maybe Hall could try some. Would make him less contrarian.

    What is wrong with being a contraian Florence?
    Are you seriously suggesting that any heretical thinking be made a criminal offence?

    Isn’t amazing just how easily you lefties slip into a totalitarian mindset?

    Sigh…

  61. Catching up @ 9:39 am

    Hall, Abbott has hijacked the asylum seekers legalisation. He has what he demanded. Trouble is, that it has made matters worse.

    His pigheadedness has led to to this ugly place we now see ourselves in.

    The answer can be found in Abbott’s court.

    The experts, once again have been proven correct. Abbott was told his way would not work.

    Florence what has made the situation worse has not been Abbott but Labor’s pig headedness in creating the problem in the first place by the dismantlement the regime that worked under the Howard government. as I have been arguing form the beginning of Labor’s asylum seeker follies. Had Labor admitted their folly sooner the problem would not now be so big or so difficult to address.

    Surely you are not so foolish as to think that we should allow an open door to all asylum seekers?

  62. :What is wrong with being a contrarian : entire raison d’etre is the giving of intellectual offence to others.

    Why is giving offence, seen as OK. That appears to be your only aim, to offend.

    “Isn’t amazing just how easily you lefties slip into a totalitarian mindset”

    What does this mean. Where are we totalitarian?

    So all we are, is a crazy mob of commo’s.

    That is an interesting thought. Coming from the side, that believe they are born to rule.

    Still a lot of trash that you write.

    How about trying something new. Leave out the personal insults, that is if you can.

    You and Abbott suffer a common disorder, both of you are unable to change course, even when going over the rapids.

  63. Fucking hilarious…lecturing Iain on insults then proceeds to insult.

    You lot are not real totalitarians, just the insect variety…a bunch of nobodies and nothings of no consequence.

    Happy new year, pants.

  64. Hall, maybe it did, or maybe it did not work under Howard. That was a decade or more ago.

    Different situation today. Most of Howard’s scheme is back in place. Does not work today.

    Howard, knew his solution was only temporary at the most. If not, why did he commence to spend millions on Christmas Island.

    When is that going to sink into some skulls.

    What happened was there was a lull. Most in Indonesia stopped moving on, I believe that many had the belief, if they waited, they would get here. This did not happen.

    The flood began coming again, those stranded became more desperate. It is simple, they see themselves as having nothing to lose.

    What is Abbott is going to do.

    Cut the numbers we take, adding to their desperation. Does one really believe that will work.

    Yes, we are not turning the boats back. Howard himself, dropped this policy quickly. What is occurring, those from Sri Lanka are being sent back by plane.

    No, we have not bought back temporary visa’s. Does not matter, as all are only getting bridging visa’s which are more restrictive.

    So what else does the PM need to do, to make Abbott’s plan work. Believe me, it is Abbott’s scheme that is in operation.

    It is a dog’s breakfast and very expensive, both in money and human terms.

  65. Catching up @ 10:00 am

    :What is wrong with being a contrarian : entire raison d’etre is the giving of intellectual offence to others.

    No Florence, it just means that I like to argue for my positions in places where I know they won’t just be accepted without challenge, you should try it sometimes because it sharpens up your arguments as well as a diamond steal dresses the edge of a good knife.

    Why is giving offence, seen as OK. That appears to be your only aim, to offend.

    Nothing could be further from the truth, my aim is to persuade you lefties that you are in error, in your assumptions and your reasoning because I like a challenge. 👿

    “Isn’t amazing just how easily you lefties slip into a totalitarian mindset”
    What does this mean. Where are we totalitarian?

    No it means that when frustrated that you can’t convert others to your belief that you then dream of forcing them to dance to your tune anyway.

    So all we are, is a crazy mob of commo’s.

    No I don’t think that at all,

    That is an interesting thought. Coming from the side, that believe they are born to rule.

    Florence I come from a totally working class background and I have never had any desire to rule.

    Still a lot of trash that you write.

    That is your opinion which I think erroneous.

    How about trying something new. Leave out the personal insults, that is if you can.

    I already do, despite a lack of reciprocity form those on your side of the ledger

    You and Abbott suffer a common disorder, both of you are unable to change course, even when going over the rapids.

    Its the left and the Labor Government who are in the White water here and thanks to Gillard they are without life jackets and they are all wearing lead shoes to boot…

  66. Can anyone point out to me, where I suggested an open door policy. I believe I am suggesting the opposite.

    I support the Houston plan, in full, that is opening the islands as a stop gap policy, while putting in place a regional plan, that includes the Malaysian and other country’s assessment centres.

    Yes, we do have to take many more. There is no way around that. Many of those available are educated or skilled. Many have much to offer this country.

    Then what one says, does not worry Hall, when he makes replies. Too wrapped up in offending.

    We have up to a hundred thousand overstayers at any time. Does not appear to have harmed the nation. These are indeed illegal.

  67. Catching up @ 10:20 am

    Hall, maybe it did, or maybe it did not work under Howard. That was a decade or more ago.

    No Florence it was a mere five years ago and when Rudd in his “wisdom” decided to abandon the Pacific solution there were hardly any people in detention and your fellow lefties were saying that the centre on Christmas Island was an unnecessary white elephant, now it is inadequate fro the numbers that are comming

    Different situation today. Most of Howard’s scheme is back in place. Does not work today.

    It does not work as you put it because under Labor there is still a chance of getting permanency and Labor’s ineptitude has put so much inertia in the system it will take years to clear the backlog

    Howard, knew his solution was only temporary at the most. If not, why did he commence to spend millions on Christmas Island.

    You base taht claim on what precisely?

    When is that going to sink into some skulls.

    When it is more than an empty claim

    What happened was there was a lull. Most in Indonesia stopped moving on, I believe that many had the belief, if they waited, they would get here. This did not happen.

    You are delusional if you believe that. The reality was that under Howard the message was clear and simple, if you got here by boat you may get a TPV but you would never get permanent residency, never get citizenship, and never be able to sponser family members. The people smugglers just had nothing to sell so their business model was broken

    The flood began coming again, those stranded became more desperate. It is simple, they see themselves as having nothing to lose.

    Rubbish the flood did not begin until Rudd made coming here profitable once again for the people smugglers.

    What is Abbott is going to do.

    Cut the numbers we take, adding to their desperation. Does one really believe that will work.

    Its all about perceptions Florence and the people smugglers perceive Labor to be a soft touch, however they don’t see abbot the same way at all

    Yes, we are not turning the boats back. Howard himself, dropped this policy quickly. What is occurring, those from Sri Lanka are being sent back by plane.

    Well that is a good start, maybe if more mendicants were promptly sent back then less would waste their time and treasure making those perilous voyages.

    No, we have not bought back temporary visa’s. Does not matter, as all are only getting bridging visa’s which are more restrictive.

    Do you understand what systemic inertia is Florence?

    So what else does the PM need to do, to make Abbott’s plan work. Believe me, it is Abbott’s scheme that is in operation.

    It is a dog’s breakfast and very expensive, both in money and human terms.

    Well reducing the avenues and opportunities to appeal a negative outcome to applications fro asylum would be good, along with a fast track deportation process for failed claimants.

    Can anyone point out to me, where I suggested an open door policy. I believe I am suggesting the opposite.

    really what limit would you place on illegal arrivals staying here then ?

    I support the Houston plan, in full, that is opening the islands as a stop gap policy, while putting in place a regional plan, that includes the Malaysian and other country’s assessment centres.

    That is never going to happen because there is no will at all in the region to address the problem, whaile they think taht they can pass it on to us

    Yes, we do have to take many more. There is no way around that. Many of those available are educated or skilled. Many have much to offer this country.

    Why do we have to take many more?

    Then what one says, does not worry Hall, when he makes replies. Too wrapped up in offending.

    We have up to a hundred thousand overstayers at any time. Does not appear to have harmed the nation. These are indeed illegal.

    Florence, if you take offence at what I say that is your problem rather than my intention and as for the over-stayers well most of those will leave of their own accord eventually any way.

  68. ‘So all we are, is a crazy mob of commo’s.’

    The watermelon brigade show all the recognisable signs, but that’s not to say all greens are automatically red.

  69. Whether a decade or five years ago. Still does not and will not work today.

    The Joint Parliametary Human RIghts Commission Hearings a couple of weeks ago where clear on what needed to be done. All seem to agree that Abbott had to get off his high horse, and come to the party.

    Have known many overstayers, mostly from around Liverpool on Tyne. No, they do not return voluntarily. When deported, most of these get back within three years. Some by means of marriage.

    Personally, they do not worry me that much. What they prove, is that this country can cope with the numbers that want to come.

    After all, one of Abbott’s promises, that I have seen, is to bring back Howard’s education policy, that gave open slather to many from such places as India. Very little expensive education outcomes, but the ability to stay.

  70. Hall,

    really what limit would you place on illegal arrivals staying here then

    Hall, considering asylum seekers are not illegal, but people overstaying there visa are, this is a must read article.

    58,000 illegal immigrants in Australia have arrived by plane.

    THERE are enough illegal immigrants living in Australia to fill a large regional city, and nearly all of these 58,400 people arrive by plane.

    There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat.

    Figures obtained by The Advertiser from the Immigration Department and under the Freedom of Information Act show plane arrivals from the United States (5080) and Britain (3610) are near the top of the list of those in the country without a valid visa. China (8070), and Malaysia (4200) round out the top four.

    There are 4446 detained boat people, the largest national grouping of which are Afghans (1422).

    Three in four of the 58,400 visa overstayers came on tourist or holiday-working visas; one in seven arrived as students and one in 15 disappeared after being granted temporary residency.

    Last year, only 6720 visa overstayers were sent home, most voluntarily, after applications to stay longer were rejected.
    Other details provided by the Immigration Department include:

    MORE than half of the overstayers have called Australia home for five or more years.

    ABOUT 20,000 have lived here a decade or more.

    TWO in three have evaded immigration authorities for more than two years.

    The figures do not include thousands of visitors who overstay their visas by up to a fortnight.

    Refugee Council of Australia chief executive officer Paul Power said the figures helped put boat arrivals into context.

    “The impact of boat arrivals on Australia’s migration program is very small,” he said.

    “Political leaders continue to add to public fears about people arriving by boat but they make little or no effort to put the small number of asylum seekers entering Australia into any global context. Little attention is paid to the fact that so many asylum seekers who arrive by boat are found to have well-founded fears of persecution.”

    So Hall, most of the illegal immigrant arrive by plane, and this has been stated before Asylum Seekers are not illegal according to the UNHCR

  71. Catching up @ 11:41 am

    Whether a decade or five years ago. Still does not and will not work today.

    Florence a little good grace when you are shown to be wrong would serve you better than petulance, especially when you are as wrong as you were on this occasion.

    The Joint Parliamentary Human Rights Commission Hearings a couple of weeks ago where clear on what needed to be done. All seem to agree that Abbott had to get off his high horse, and come to the party.

    That is utter bollocks Florence, the only reason that Gillard wants Abbott in her tent is so that she can blame him when things go pear-shape.

    Have known many over-stayers, mostly from around Liverpool on Tyne. No, they do not return voluntarily. When deported, most of these get back within three years. Some by means of marriage.

    Liverpool is on the Mersey Florence, so I will suggest that you are just making that claim up and that it has no substance in any event how many people could that be anyway? if its more than two I would be very surprised indeed.

    Personally, they do not worry me that much. What they prove, is that this country can cope with the numbers that want to come.

    How can your tiny sample prove such a thing at all?

    After all, one of Abbott’s promises, that I have seen, is to bring back Howard’s education policy, that gave open slather to many from such places as India. Very little expensive education outcomes, but the ability to stay.

    Really do you have a citation for that claim?

  72. Paul Wilson
    While claiming asylum is not illegal, entering this country without a valid visa is against the law and makes such an arrival libel to deportation and a subsequent ban on entry.

    But then open door lefties like you are rather too silly to appreciate such nuances of the law.

  73. Hall said this,

    While claiming asylum is not illegal, entering this country without a valid visa is against the law and makes such an arrival libel to deportation and a subsequent ban on entry

    Now hall has obviously has not read the document from the Refugee council of Australia, because it states this,

    Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are neither engaging in illegal activity, nor are they immigrants.
    The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a lawful right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents. The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a
    person is seeking asylum. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal”, as they in fact have a lawful right to enter Australia to seek asylum.

    In line with our obligations under the Convention, Australian law also permits unauthorised entry into Australia for the purposes of seeking asylum. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation.

    Australian and international law make these allowances because it is not always safe or practicable for asylum seekers to obtain travel documents or travel through authorised channels.
    Refugees are, by definition, persons fleeing persecution and in most cases are being persecuted by their own government. It is often too dangerous for refugees to apply for a passport or exit visa or approach an Australian Embassy for a visa, as such actions could put their lives, and the lives of their families, at risk. Refugees may also be forced to flee with little notice due to rapidly deteriorating situations and do not have time to apply for travel documents or arrange travel through authorised
    channels. Permitting asylum seekers to entry a country without travel documents is similar to allowing ambulance drivers to exceed the speed limit in an emergency – the action would be ordinarily be considered illegal, but the circumstances warrant an exception.

    So Hall, you have just proved to us again that you do not read the articles that we link to.

  74. Hall

    Your source is tainted by its own political agenda and you do not understand law that you are claiming to interpret.

    point us in the right direction then Hall, you seem to be the fountain of information on this subject.

  75. I knew Hall would say that, Just goes to prove you are what you are, a Lazy galah, I have done the research Hall, you have not.

  76. Hall, this is why you are a pathetic debater, you do not backup your points with the facts, and referring to websites to backup your arguments.

  77. No Paul Wilson I don’t need to “back up” my points when debating you because your mind is closed as tighter than a fish’s cloaca and no source would be authoritative enough for you to change your position.

  78. Hall, you do not get it do you, that is why you never win arguing, does not matter who it is, you are just a joke. 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Hall, when ever you are loosing an argument you resort to these tactics, blaming the other people, saying they have closed minds, comparing people to animal anatomy, where it is you who has a closed mind, back up your arguments or people will not take you seriously, as it is everyone here does not anyway.

    As far as everyone here is concerned you are a sad, sad person. 😦 😦 😦 😦

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