The ‘Right’ to be heard: what we heard.

A few weeks ago I posted The ‘Right’ to be heard, offering a thread where right-winger could add some substance to their claims that Julia Gillard is evil, the Government is toxic or why Abbott would make a better Prime Minister. The post received over 620 comments and the ‘right’ were out in force, however, their responses were merely parrot-fashion repeats of what we hear from the opposition and the media. Here’s a collection of the best they could come up with.

When it comes to incompetence you need go no further than the creation of a tax that collects no revenue.

November 30, 2012 @ 1:29 pm
Nah, I won’t play this silly game as trying to convince a leftist that this government is absolutely awful is like trying to convince a Catholic that there is no God. Pellonians!

Why don’t you go and get a real job. All you speak is left-wing garbage.

The real Julia is unleashed in her self-righteous fury and calculated aggression. Her voice now bounces across the summer landscape invading homes, hotels and workplaces. Her arch opponent, Tony Abbott, is traduced as sexist, relentlessly negative and an agent of smear as the nation divides between those who applaud Julia and those appalled by her.

. . . you lot must be deluded if you find the last weeks effort by Gillard in any way befitting a prime minister of this country! SUB PRIME is indeed a great nomme de plume for her.

I’ll leave you with a couple of thoughts…The heart of the current scandal is that the union movement in Australia is utterly corrupt. The corruption today has been discovered by chance.

Something Gillard needs to know…

Count your blessings
and not your woes
as it’s what we count
that grows and grows
and aren’t we lucky
we only have one nose!

Is that the best you have, wingnut?

. . . and love of Labor betrays a lemming like mentality…breeding up numbers and then collapsing through unsustainability.

Why Abbott would make a better Prime minister….he wouldn’t have defied his colleagues on this one for starters…

Treeman

December 1, 2012 @ 12:07 pm

Spoken like a true deluded Labor voter, conveniently ignoring the depraved levels of corruption in the union movement, Labor’s principle support through the ages.

Don’t have to say Gillard is worse…she just is!

The foundation of Labor was a bunch of thuggish shearers that slit horses throats, burnt down sheds, a hatred of Chinese and Aborigines and nothing has changed to this day.

Take a poll in prisons and Labor would get 95% of the vote…the true Labor base.

Love your work! Perhaps a prison ethos permeates the cafe of the self shackled!

That caption competition is hilarious! I see Gillard is always prepared…keeps a cock ring on a chain around her neck in case she has to do some heavy negotiations with the indies.

Prison visiting hours over?

A simpler way of saying it. The PM leads a strong team. Abbott is the team.

Gillard is a product of and under the control of the unions, that is not leadership. When Gillard finally washed the blood from her hands she said that Rudd was dysfunctional and she was going to fix the mining tax issue and also the boat people problem.

What type of people are you to defend her? Notice how the hit count is up lately? Well, they aren’t lefties, freak show at the carnival comes to mind.

why Abbott would make a better Prime Minister.

Abbott would be a better PM because his judgement is better. One of the things to come out of the AWU saga is Gillards poor judgement. The media went berserk when Julie Bishop had a 10 minute meeting with Blewett. Well Gillard was friends with Blewett for years. Gillard lived with a conman (Wilson) for years and she did not know?? Come on.

Bad judgement was shown by dismantling Howards Pacific Solution and 1,000 deaths and 6 billion dollars later they are trying to put it back together.

The ALP is the party of the unforeseen stuff up. Most ALP policies end in disaster.

‘Tony would be a better PM’ because he vows to abolish a tax.

He will be kinder to very small business.

Abbott’s Green Army is a brilliant tactical manoeuvre.

Does Abbott go religiously to church on Sunday? Its a mortal sin if you don’t.

They didn’t really offer much, did they? Some made half-hearted attempts but they were generally just another rant.

We then had a post called The message is simple, which wasn’t about politics but guess who turned up in droves to sprout their typical hate-filled bile? Here’s a clue:

Last chance. Pick something intelligent to discuss or just go to the ALP website and slobber there. Pathetic. I’m gone.

Voyager – Sydney

December 3, 2012 @ 8:31 am

Might be best ever week for Cafe Wispers
but worst ever week for parliament and Ms Dullard.

The Coalition is progressive and has no intention of taking us back to the Dark Ages, unlike Ms Dillard and her dullard supporters.

Treeman – congratulations what a post, even Labor’ ites would laugh at that .
And why dont I call her JULIAR – its now a fact known by Australian Voters , she
can lie and cheat – probably her strongest point (untill you come unstuck)
Just think Ms Dullard – well she dresses mighty dull even speaks dull
and Ms Dillard – well she has that special touch , she manages to stuff up
just about anything she touches . Even capable of falling over in an Indian garden!
Not leadership material.

Point of Order!!! Speed’ohs are fine for a futuristic Coalition Government and A Stronger Oz!

The next topic, Mr Abbott’s witch hunt brought them out too:

To the moderator. is their any chance of displaying the examples of Ms Gillard not answer questions. Thank you.

There seems little point in looking back, the polls indicate Abbott will be PM after the next election.

Try as you may, there is not much the watermelons can do to stop Labor’s slide into oblivion.

Most of the comments on CW show just why it will be so hard for
Ms Dillard to win the 2013 Election

On the Tell me lies post, which was meant to be a forum where we could have a bit of a history lesson on the Coalition’s propensity to lie through their teeth, we found that the right-wingers preferred to have it as a forum where they could continue to bag the current PM and her government. Typically, they offered nothing new:

Left wing shadow boxers have impaired memory! In computer language, garbage in equals garbage out. This wreaks havoc with RAM, rendering software useless. In layman terms this is described as a soft brain!

VOYAGER – S y d n e y

December 9, 2012 @ 9:54 pm

Some here just don’t get it, Ms Dullard seems to get away with lots of lies.
Will her party ever pull her into line?

Neil of Sydney

December 10, 2012 @ 12:30 pm

She lied to Wilkie to win govt.

Whilst I only picked three comments from the whole topic, they contained the same message over and over, much like the global warming topic that followed, though they were a bit more subdued:

What is this some justification for a Carbon Tax?
Better still why not get our Union mates to put a total Embargo on all imports
from the highest polluting countries? eg China India and all of Asia
– Simple solution for simple folk.

But on When the news isn’t the news they went feral:

When the media are attacking the Opposition is great investigative journalism – they are very left anyway. The moment they pick on the poor Labor Brigade, they’re – Oh I’m not going to re-write that list list again. You’re pathetic. Just go and hide.

“Well, he could have said that. Interesting that his first impulse is to lie?”

What a crap thing to say. Gillard should never have brought the topic up. Shame on you for blaming Abbott when if Gillard had kept her trap shut no problems would have occurred.

Gillard was playing politics and potentially endangering Abbott’s life (for asking him to go to Afghanistan with her).

Neil of Sydney

December 13, 2012 @ 6:25 pm

Gillards judgement is terrible. Before Parliament she associated with criminals, even lived with one.

Well Gillard had a 4 year relationship with this conman. How long does it take before you realise your boyfriend is a crook?? Shows what judgement Gillard has.

To play politics with going to a war zone is the lowest of the low. Gillard knew that Abbott was going to visit Afghanistan on his way home so why did she try to create trouble?? It is also against protocol for a PM and Opposition leader to be together in a war zone. And Gillard knew that. She was playing dirty politics which is the only way Gillard knows how to play. It is Gillard who is setting the tone of political debate around Australia and it shows.

The tone in Parliament Question Time is set by the government. I don’t need to look up Hansard, I’ve watched it in disgust!

Gillard does not answer questions…she just goes into her trailer trash attack mode to deflect from answering questions.

t’s a friggin circus, and the ringmaster is tabot.

So it is all Abbotts fault?? A powerful person like the PM has no say in the tone of the Parliament?? Talk about left wing projection.

It is Gillard who is setting the tone and it is toxic.

Even topic on Joe Hockey was turned into a Julia bash-fest from the right:

It is Gillard and the ALP setting the tone of debate. Calling Abbott a thug. They could not even make a Christmas card without descending into the gutter.

The ALP is the natural party of abuse, slime and smear. It is second nature for an ALP politician and its supporters to abuse people.

The ALP is the natural party of abuse and slime.

And on Let’s focus on what’s important they couldn’t debate the state of the economy, which was the crux of the topic. No, out came the same old rubbish:

Neil of Sydney

December 20, 2012 @ 10:56 pm

“Has anybody showed him Australia’s credit rating? The unemployment rate? Interest rates? Inflation rate?”

It is comments like that why I call ALP supporters deceitful.

I’m more interest in December 2012 and the immediate future.

A persons track record is very important. And the track record of the ALP is they trash the budget and we lose our credit rating every time they are in power.

El Gordo is right Cuppa the Carbon tax will not go away as an issue no matter how much you latte sippers wish that it would, Gillard’s back-flip/ Lie to the people is the main reason that the voters don’t trust Labor, this latest concession from Swan just adds to that perception.

You are an absolute moron if you believe the dribble you are publishing? Open your eyes and see it for what it is this government is destroying our beautiful nation and its the battlers & our elderly that are struggling.

The only things Labor hands the Coalition when elected is a trashed budget and a credit rating downgrade.

On Editorial bullshit they certainly proved themselves incapable of logical thought and debate:

Another Dullard / Swan lie. The more you lie the better you get at it.
The Question for them to answer is : ‘ When did you first realize this
Budget Promise was unachievable?’
ALP aka Australian Liars Party – win
Australian Voters – lose

December 22, 2012 @ 6:29 amSure is plenty of straw in this bullshit thread!

Why are the leftards so inane?

And that, folks, is about all we get across the blogosphere, here at this blog or at other blog sites as well as Facebook and Twitter. The same old same old. Julia Gillard is evil (without any evidence) and Tony Abbott is a modern day saint (without any evidence).

As we move in to the election year we can expect the galahs to squawk even louder.

Brace yourself.

317 comments on “The ‘Right’ to be heard: what we heard.

  1. Wow what an early morning post Migs!
    Glad to see that I am first in your thoughts when it comes to the conservatives who comment at the Cafe.
    However I think that you are being rather unfair in your dismissal of the opinions of the forces of the light as their responses were merely parrot-fashion repeats of what we hear from the opposition and the media. Here’s a collection of the best they could come up with. when most of those who are for the current government are far more parrot like than we conservatives are.
    Your problem though is that the left-wing parrot is actually a Norwegian blue and it can only charitably be described as and ex-parrot.
    One of the reasons that I so enjoy coming here is that the conversions are generally very lively so you should be thankful for all of the ships sailing under conservative colours that liven things up considerably, just don’t blame us, as you do in this post, for the Labor boat is sinking despite all of the wishes of your Latte sipping regulars. Its sinking because it has a captain who can’t navigate and a crew who are already sure enough that its going down that they won’t take off their life jackets.

  2. Migs, the premise of this post is spot on, but the majority of content is just complete crap.

    I don’t know how I’m going to keep down my brecky after reading all the RW rubbish, although it did reinforce why I usually scroll past their inane crap! :mrgreen:

    What were you thinking? 😯

    Was it something you ate? :mrgreen:

    was it some residual effect from your sojourn in hospital? 😉 🙄 😯

    Anyway, still glad you’re back on deck 😀

    Cheers 🙂 😀 😆 😆

  3. What a bunch of sour grape losers. 2013 will be dirtier and nastier judging by the fascist party comments. Who was dead drunk on his ministerial couch in his ministerial office, too drunk to make it to house of reps for a crucial vote on the stimulus? Only a lowly backbencher then, not interested enough. Who fell asleep during the carbon pricing debate and legislation? When he finally woke up he complained about the legislation being passes in the dead of night like a thief in the night? All the other MPs were able to stay awake, but not him.

  4. There is a hyperactive right-wing noise machine in Australia. The Murdoch press, Their ABC, regional newspapers, commercial radio and TV, astroturfers ‘working’ comments threads and Letters to the Editor, astroturfers clicking furiously to stagger the results of online ‘polls’.

    That’s one hell of a lot of propaganda and spin. It’s no wonder the populace is politically befuddled. Swamped by Lieberal bullshit in an almost Orwellian landscape. No escape unless they seek out blogs such as The Cafe.

    But as Migs said, fundamentally it’s a lot of noise about very little. A handful of slogans and workshopped talking points on constant rotation.

    Entertaining to see the operatives flounder when challenged to go beyond the stock-standard Lieberal spin. They’ve got nothing, and they know it. Contortionists twisting themselves inside out to avoid truth and facts.

  5. Oh Cuppa your delusion shows…

    “There is a hyperactive right-wing noise machine in Australia. The Murdoch press, Their ABC, regional newspapers, commercial radio and TV, astroturfers ‘working’ comments threads and Letters to the Editor, astroturfers clicking furiously to stagger the results of online ‘polls’.”
    That sounds like paranoia to me! It’s of the same genre as global warming sceptics ar funded by big oil! As for propaganda and spin, what about the leftist comments here? As IH pointed out above, this blog is full of it!

  6. So did our detractors enlighten us too any glaring facts, Truths, vision or more importantly policy’s?

    Not a one NADA.. Minions on the coal face of deceit, they just kept cutting and pasting the excretia that is Fiberal Fear Smear like mindless zombie lemmings over the cliff of factual reality.

    The conga line of the factless trolls has still to provide us with their most important imperative, avoided like a leg of ham at a Muslim BBQ.

    Six personal attributes of character that would make Tony Abbot a worthy Prime Minister. I remind them that despite constant challenges to do so, I am still waiting.
    I feel the stark truth of this realisation is a harsh jolt of conscience electricity.

    I reiterate. Tony Abbott Will Never Be Prime Minister.

    The Polls reflect it, the people reflect it and as the public stare into the policy abyss of the worst opposition in political history, truth will prevail duly to reflect it.

    Gordo, Your dreamin’.
    Iian you never disappoint me with facts.

  7. Migs, it appears we are going to get more of the same. I wonder what if it feels like to be comsumed by what appears to border on hate.

    Some could not even find some charity in their hearts on Christmas day.

    Hope you have recovered and enjoyed Christmas Day.

    Now we can look forwarded to what the New Year will bring.

    It is going to be what I feel is a exciting years, where commonsense reigns over false conceptions that are aboard. Where we look forwarded with hope, not despair.

    It appears that the public have lost the apphresension they had and opened the purse strings, to let in a little joy, not fear. Maybe many are waking uo to the fact that they are notas bad off, as some still maintain. That the ranga held her ground, and the Abbott has scurried off, with little to offer.

    Of cause we will continue to have that pesky noise from the right, but is of little concern, and will becoms nothing but a whisper when we reach that election in the run up th the next Christmas season.

    Yes, I believe it will be indeed a good year.

  8. Cuppa @ 7:52 am

    There is a hyperactive right-wing noise machine in Australia. The Murdoch press, Their ABC, regional newspapers, commercial radio and TV, astroturfers ‘working’ comments threads and Letters to the Editor, astroturfers clicking furiously to stagger the results of online ‘polls’.

    Oh what a hyperactive conspiracy thinker you are! anyone would think that the Gillard government was a paragon of virtue and the epitome of good government from your grab bag of so claimed malign influences arrayed against them. I have been following Aussie politics for forty years and its just not so that government is made or broken by the “power of the media”. As for online polls well, if you think that they natter (which is very debatable) the simple fact is that if any “double dipping” were possible (which is not generally so because they usually recognise IP addresses and reject second votes) then there are likely to be just as many “progressives” who have a second bite of the cherry as there are conservatives so it would be a zero sum game.

    That’s one hell of a lot of propaganda and spin. It’s no wonder the populace is politically befuddled. Swamped by Lieberal bullshit in an almost Orwellian landscape. No escape unless they seek out blogs such as The Cafe.

    😆 You are eventually going to have to face the fact that Gillard and her government are unpopular fro a very simple reason, they have been a bad government and one that runs almost entirely on spin and unfulfilled promises of a bright new future which is always just out of reach. Please cite just one policy decision that has turned out as expected and on budget.

    But as Migs said, fundamentally it’s a lot of noise about very little. A handful of slogans and workshopped talking points on constant rotation.

    Well that is an apt description of the Gillard experience isn’t it? Believe it or not but I have seen a few good ideas produced by Labor but I have yet to see a single one of them done properly or delivered on time. And then there have been some truly appalling and darkly comedic policy farces like the asylum seeker debacles that just keep giving to the conservative cause, the genuflecting to “Green” causes like climate change and Gay marriage. Yet you are delusional enough to think that we have a “good” government brought low by a vast conspiracy of the right? Face facts Cuppa Labor is in the shitter because they wilfully dug their way into that position with their own teeth.

    Entertaining to see the operatives flounder when challenged to go beyond the stock-standard Lieberal spin. They’ve got nothing, and they know it. Contortionists twisting themselves inside out to avoid truth and facts.

  9. and the same idiots turn up again to try and turn this blog into a shallow right wing echo chamber….surprise surprise surprise.

  10. Treetroll,

    You’re an example of what I mentioned: contortionists turning themselves inside out to avoid facts and truth.

    You mocked my assertion of the “right wing noise machine”. OK then, let’s see some substance from you: Name for us one (just one will do) mainstream media outlet that is pro-Labor.

    … Take your time, treetroll.

  11. Sorry missed a bit

    Entertaining to see the operatives flounder when challenged to go beyond the stock-standard Lieberal spin. They’ve got nothing, and they know it. Contortionists twisting themselves inside out to avoid truth and facts.

    The thing is we conservatives are not the ones floundering, its you Latte sippers who have a dose of political Parkinson’s disease that makes you uncontrollably tremulous as you desperately try to defend the indefensible foolishness that is teh Gillard government.

  12. As the wingnuts continue to call Gillard a liar over what was not a lie, Abbott continues to tell the biggest porkies around, and the wingnuts are not only silent over it they praise his lying and deceptions. But then again we have always known fairness and lucidity aren’t the Liberals and especially their zombie supporters strong points.

    Abbott pledge of $4b in doubt

    Abbott caught out in yet another lie on a set in stone pledge and exposed by one of his own.

    If these are his revealed set in stone broken commitments then those that are not revealed must be considerable. And before some go jumping in and saying he can’t be blamed for breaking pledges that are in the future, even though they have no hesitation of blaming Labor and Gillard of the same, circumstances change etc, there are good examples in existence to demonstrate exactly how Abbott will break every pledge and promise he makes, they are called Liberal State governments.

  13. “what about the leftist comments here? As IH pointed out above, this blog is full of it!”

    What else would one expert to here on a site such as this. If it offend, one should look elsewhere.

    News, for one and all. This site is just NOT going to change. WHY SHOULD IT????

  14. Catching Up,

    News, for one and all. This site is just NOT going to change. WHY SHOULD IT????

    They resent that there are media vehicles (this blog being one) that don’t fall into line with the echo chamber pushing out the Liberal lies in the “mainstream” media.

    They know they will never get anywhere defending the merits of their own “policies”. Those few policies they do have, are toxic. So instead we get spin, lies, slogans, stunts, spin, mud, smear, spin, slogans, smear, lies, mud.

    LNP: Lies Not Policies.

  15. We are told we are floundering. We are told we are afraid. We are told we are confused. We are told we are have to wake up and face reality.

    I am very confused about what they say. I feel very confident, that the new year will be very much to our liking. Very much indeed. I see little evidence that says otherwise.

  16. The wingnuts out themselves, and their projection abounds.

    It seems like their acculturation, conservative, nothing changes in their very narrow warped ideological view of the world, not even reality.

  17. BTW, I’m not part of any wing noise machine and have to say the dubious honour of so many credits above does not sit lightly with me, so I’m looking forward to pasting in a lot more links to affidavits and archives that demonstrate gillard’s complicity in matters that have earned her the apt nome de plume of ‘sub prime minister’

    Migs, 2013 will be a most interesting year and for me there many parallels to climate science and politics in Australia today. With climate science the models have brought down the IPCC and a number of key snake oil/hockey stick graph alarmists. Mann, Gergis and Karoly to name a few, have been humiliated on the international stage as 16 years of observations have not in any way reflected their alarmist predictions. Similarly with Leftist claims that somehow the Rudd and Gillard governments have achieved extraordinary progress for Australia and that policy and spending initiatives pushed out well beyond the life of this parliament will somehow save us from armageddon environmentally and fiscally are face to face with the cold hard reality of debt, interest to pay and zero impact on ‘climate’.

    The key issue for me is that the Australian public are utterly fed up with being peddled bullshit with respect to climate, government finances, snowjobs on union corruption, unkept key promises and more. It’s not the opposition that must climb out of the hole here, it’s the Gillard government. Problem for Gillard is that it’s quite a long drop, to coin a phrase.

  18. RIGHT about now would be a good time to enlighten us as to Abbott’s personal qualities of worthiness times.six. Maybe the polls a true? An accurate reflection of what people think or no less the judgement of the worst pool of incompetent idiocy that is the current flopposition?

  19. Ricky (Tory Torcher) @ 8:28 am

    So did our detractors enlighten us too any glaring facts, Truths, vision or more importantly policy’s?

    YES Repeatedly 😉

    Not a one NADA.. Minions on the coal face of deceit, they just kept cutting and pasting the excretia that is Fiberal Fear Smear like mindless zombie lemmings over the cliff of factual reality.

    The lemmings are surely those who still keep following Labor socialists no matter how inept they have been.

    The conga line of the factless trolls has still to provide us with their most important imperative, avoided like a leg of ham at a Muslim BBQ.

    Please try again because this mixed metaphor is a total failure.

    Six personal attributes of character that would make Tony Abbot a worthy Prime Minister. I remind them that despite constant challenges to do so, I am still waiting.

    Attribute 1: Tony Abbott is not Julia Gillard.
    Attribute 2: Tony Abbott is not Kevin Rudd.
    Attribute 3: Tony Abbott is not a member of the ALP.
    Attribute 4: Tony Abbott is not beholden to the corrupt union movement.
    Attribute 5: Tony Abbott is not a bloody Lawyer
    Attribute 6: Tony Abbott is not claiming victim-hood because of his gender.

    I feel the stark truth of this realisation is a harsh jolt of conscience electricity.

    you have to stop putting your tongue onto the terminals of 9 volt batteries Ricky 😉

    I reiterate. Tony Abbott Will Never Be Prime Minister.

    That is, at best, just wishful thinking Ricky and I suggest that you resist wagering anything of value to you on that proposition.

    The Polls reflect it, the people reflect it and as the public stare into the policy abyss of the worst opposition in political history, truth will prevail duly to reflect it.

    The Polls have consistently shown Labor to be headed for oblivion, the only uncertainty is which circle of electoral hell will they end up in.

    Iain you never disappoint me with facts.

    And you never seem to learn that when it comes to the future one can only have facts once the passing of time has given us a historical record to compare or predictions and expectations to.

    Cuppa @ 8:39 am

    Same challenge goes for Iain Hall, whose post I haven’t read, but did see my name sticking up out of it.

    Its endlessly amusing for me to see that so many of the dead set Latte Luvvies like Cuppa here insist that we conservatives are absolutely wrong about everything while frantically refusing to read what we say about anything.

  20. Still off his Treeman
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 8:59 AM
    I’m looking forward to pasting in a lot more links to affidavits and archives that demonstrate gillard’s complicity in matters that have earned her the apt nome de plume of ‘sub prime minister’

    So Off you treeman, dig out the ancient discredited theory of devolution by all means.

    What like Kathy Jacksons Affidavits, Blewits magical mystery tour, Craig Thomson’s raid of no consequence, or a transcript of the Slipper trial?
    The thing about these guys , they are like the Beatles come back,, lots of huff and puff but no show.

  21. Iian again, as expected you have not disappointed me with fact and inserted/asserted opinion….please trolls keep it up the cliff is higher than I thought.

    Abbots popularity is so low he is free falling out of the snakes ass that is the modern Liberals.

  22. Ricky

    Abbott’s popularity is so low he is free falling out of the snakes ass that is the modern Liberals.

    As we don’t directly elect our PM personal popularity is far less important than the standing of the parties relative to each other and on the measure Labor and Gillard are in desperate trouble with Labor set to lose seats ant the next election. now given the simple fact that her cobbled together government gives her only a once seat majority she only has to lose a couple of seats to be out of government.

    So what Facts can you offer to suggest that Gillard can retain office at the election?

  23. This is what happens when electorates are duped into voting conservative against their own interests…

    The Courier Mail, 06 December 2012

    Queensland’s economy is in reverse as the fiscal bite of the Newman Government’s public service job cuts hit home while government spending and the mining sector retract.

    The slump is at odds with the slow growth being shown in the national economy.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/public-service-job-cuts-mining-slowdown-start-to-bite-as-queensland-economy-goes-in-to-reverse/story-e6freoof-1226530816026

  24. tree did you miss the poll that said most agree that the PM might have been involved in that ancient alleged scandal but they did not care.

    I suspect you will have nothing new.

    What we will see the scandal that now exists and is occurring now, that involves half the Oppsotion front bench, much of Queensland’s LNP. That of the effort of Brough and Ashby to bring down a governmnet, using the courts. That one will not go away.

  25. Migs, I found the collection of regurgitated bile in the post rather sickening myself. 😕

    The premise of your post is supported by their continued chittering in the comments and further demonstrates that the the trolls remain are unable to even frame, let alone make coherent argument in support of their fascist dreams.

    They still haven’t realised that their war on reality can end in only one way.

    After everything else, facts, truth and decency continue to elude the conservative trolls, – such attributes of reality apparently suffer from “latte sipping” or “left wing bias” or even “floundering”.

    They never had anything, and that’s what they still have.

    Personally, I’ve never had time for creatures from the right, although quite prepared to consider that there must be some there who understand reality. the nature of evidence, facts and honest argument .

    The offerings of the trolls infesting the Cafe do nothing to support this idea, however,
    thus I am left with two possible conclusions :

    Firstly, that I am wrong in my consideration. wrt the trolls, and that the right does actually lack any intellectual rigour or coherence, and is devoid of anything but fear-mongering, insults and lies.

    Or secondly. that “our” band of trolls are merely paid (or unpaid) astroturfers working on behalf of the1%, and, as such are in no way representative of the broader right, which chooses to remain silent about the hijacking of “conservative” ideals in favour of right wing extremism.

  26. Meanwhile the conservatives in Western Australia are sending the State budget into spiraling debt and deficit, amid rising power prices…

    Perth Now, 24 December 2012

    … Mr Buswell saying May Budget figures which showed a 25 per cent increase in power bills over the next few years were still current predictions

    This was on top of a 62 per cent increase in power bills since the Liberal-National Government came to power in 2008.

    Figures show the state’s mortgage – state debt – will rise from just under $4 billion in 2008 to a staggering $24.7 billion in 2015-16.

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/wa-budget-to-go-into-deficit-debt-increasing-power-prices-up/story-e6frg13u-1226541913037

  27. Interesting is that in spite of endless numbers of opportunities/requests and indeed personal invitations to contribute, not one single right winger has been able to produce a positive as to why Tony Abbott DESERVES to become Prime Minister.

    Instead, the only response is along the lines of JuLiar, personal attacks against left wing contributors or arguments not backed by any facts whatsoever. I take these as an answer of: “I don’t know and I don’t care as long as I win”.

  28. Yes, popularity of a Opposition Leader does not carry much weight in the noirmal scheme of things, that is true.

    Saying that, there has never been a contender with such low numbers as Abbott’s ever become PM.

  29. Workers attacked because of economy’s success

    Howard did the same and it’s another reason not to vote a Liberal government in.

    Howard rode his “Battlers” meme for all it was worth but the first chance he got he shat on them from as high as he could. They gave him the longest periods of earned leave not taken, unpaid overtime and working hours, yet he still wanted to screw them in an attempt to make them work more for less.

    Abbott will do the same as the businesses now screaming wages are too high, when they are not, whilst they engage in exorbitantly high remuneration packages for themselves, are the same businesses currently pulling his strings.

    This is yet another reason not to vote for Abbott as it seems we can come up with many valid reasons why Abbott doesn’t deserve to be PM, yet the right wing zombies here can’t come up with half a dozen valid ones why he should.

    Oh have I told you Abbott has broken another pledge. I guess breaking a $4billion road funding pledge is better than what Howard did in promising then budgeting for $4billion on roads but then only spending a fraction of that over four years.

  30. You left wing extremists just don’t get it. Australians (well most) don’t vote in governments, they vote out bad governments and this one is the worst I’ve lived through.

    This lot fuck up everything they touch and the consequences of their actions will be felt for the rest of the decade.

    If you lot want to avert your Abbottphobia then organise a grass roots campaign to get rid of Gillard and I bet the Liberal supporters would agitate to get rid of Abbott. Oh, silly me…the roots of the left are murky corrupt union thugs and you lot have no say or power. PISSANTS!


  31. pterosaur1 @ 9:28 am

    Migs, I found the collection of regurgitated bile in the post rather sickening myself. 😕

    The truth hurts you doesn’t it?

    The premise of your post is supported by their continued chittering in the comments and further demonstrates that the the trolls remain are unable to even frame, let alone make coherent argument in support of their fascist dreams.

    You are probably a decent enough chap underneath all of your rigid leftist thinking but maybe you would get more respect if only you were to accept that most people left or right are closer to the centre than any sort of extreme

    They still haven’t realised that their war on reality can end in only one way.

    Thus speaks the chap who can’t even be honest about the politics of his interlocutors 🙄

    After everything else, facts, truth and decency continue to elude the conservative trolls, – such attributes of reality apparently suffer from “latte sipping” or “left wing bias” or even “floundering”.

    They never had anything, and that’s what they still have.

    Of course you won’t find the attributes of virtue in any conservative as long as you keep insisting that only those with socialist views can possibly be decent human beings

    Personally, I’ve never had time for creatures from the right, although quite prepared to consider that there must be some there who understand reality. the nature of evidence, facts and honest argument .

    The offerings of the trolls infesting the Cafe do nothing to support this idea, however,
    thus I am left with two possible conclusions :

    Its this attitude that undermines every argument that you offer here

    Firstly, that I am wrong in my consideration. wrt the trolls, and that the right does actually lack any intellectual rigour or coherence, and is devoid of anything but fear-mongering, insults and lies.

    Try re-reading your own prose and you will find these very flaws booming out at 110db time after time.

    Or secondly. that “our” band of trolls are merely paid (or unpaid) astroturfers working on behalf of the1%, and, as such are in no way representative of the broader right, which chooses to remain silent about the hijacking of “conservative” ideals in favour of right wing extremism.

    You really need to talk to your GP about changing the dose of your anti-psychotic medications because they are clearly not doing the job of keeping your paranoia in check

    Min @ 9:31 am

    Interesting is that in spite of endless numbers of opportunities/requests and indeed personal invitations to contribute, not one single right winger has been able to produce a positive as to why Tony Abbott DESERVES to become Prime Minister.

    Min I gave you six above 🙂

    Instead, the only response is along the lines of JuLiar, personal attacks against left wing contributors or arguments not backed by any facts whatsoever. I take these as an answer of: “I don’t know and I don’t care as long as I win”.

    We just consider that this country has its worst government in living memory led by its worst PM since federation so anyone , even a drover’s dog, would be an improvement.

  32. Wow !
    You have a quiet one on Christmas Day and Boxing Day come back to CW
    where it is all happening. Ian Hall really like your work with Abbott 6 attributes.
    It gets back to running the Country , my attacks on Ms Dullard do not reflect
    her personal abilities – she is obbviously quite smart but misdirrected and flexible with the truth.
    This shows in everything she and her team does. We have all head the term
    Midas Touch -where everything turns to gold. Ms Dillard has the Dullard Touch-
    where everthing turns to rubbish (note I did not say shit). And it is not bad luck she has magic in doing this.
    2012 has been a very very bad year for her and her Government. Any Gov
    who cant get their head above 36% in the Polls is up to their neck in Poo.
    Her biggest fear is the amount of Ammo the Coalition has on her now to use
    with the ‘Swinging Australian Voters’ during the Election Campaign, it is gigantic.
    CW are always looking through rose coloured glasses and obviously
    dont talk to the wider community. There is anger , there is hatred towards
    this Current Federal Gov which will display at the Big Box in 2013.
    Happy New Year!

  33. Min
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 9:31 AM
    Interesting is that in spite of endless numbers of opportunities/requests and indeed personal invitations to contribute, not one single right winger has been able to produce a positive as to why Tony Abbott DESERVES to become Prime Minister.

    Conveniently avoided, Typical fibberal convenient fact evasion syndrome. Despite every attempt to do so, the page is bare as you can’t defend the indefensible Min.

    . Iain Hall
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 9:22 AM
    As we don’t directly elect our PM personal popularity is far less important

    Stick Bernadi in there or head to head Mirrabella against the Hon Prime Minister Julia Gillard and see how your theory works their Iian.

  34. voyager, I suspect you and your ilk see much more amger than there is.

    I am susrpised at the reaction one gets today, when mentioning politics. See no hate for PM, disgusted at the media’s treartment of trhe Rare’s Judgement.

    People noticed more than some think.

  35. If this is the worst government you’ve lived through, then you must only be five or six, which would explain your totally puerile comments, or only just arrived from some other planet!

    Talk about delusional 😯

  36. Well it is Boxing Day. Some see Christmas Day, whether believers or not, for other things.

    Noticed there were many out at five this morning eager to spend more money, Not a sight one woul;d expect tosee in our visitor’s picture of doom and gloom.

    The pendulam always swings, Could be on the way back again.

  37. I voted for Gough twice TS and even so and with the benefit of hindsight I can see that that shambolic Labor administration was a model of virtue compared to Gillard.

  38. You left wing extremists just don’t get it. Australians (well most) don’t vote in governments, they vote out bad governments….

    Really?

  39. It was just a matter of time. In the absence of substance they always recourse to slogans.

    Iaian Hall has wheeled out the hackneyed and disproven Fiberal slogan:

    worst government in living memory

    The worst government in living memory was the Howard rodent government. Let us recall a sample of the ministerial disasters:

    * Minister Jim Short was forced to resign for failing to divest himself of financial interests in his area of ministerial responsibility.

    * Industry minister John Moore was exposed for his shareholdings in technology investment and share-trading companies.

    * Parliamentary secretary Brian Gibson lost his job because of a conflict of interest.

    * Small business minister Geoff Prosser was running three shopping centres while he was a minister and he was forced to resign. [Geoff Prosser resigned in July 1997 following the disclosure that he was a shopping centre landlord while he was responsible for commercial tenancy provisions of the Trade Practices Act 1975.]

    * Resources minister Warwick Parer had massive share interests in a coalmine and in other resource companies; he stayed, in breach of the ministerial code.

    * Acting minister for communications Peter McGauran forgot that he owned 70 poker machines.

    * Employment services minister Mal Brough promoted training courses which were actually Liberal Party fundraisers.

    * Industry minister Ian Macfarlane was involved in a complex scam to rort GST rebates from Liberal Party fundraisers.

    * Aboriginal affairs minister John Herron kept up his practice as a surgeon, in breach of the code.

    Mr Howard himself was found to be in breach of his own code when he failed to resign as a director of the Menzies Research Centre.

    Mr Howard misled the parliament over meetings he had held with ethanol producer Manildra’s boss – massive Liberal Party donor Dick Honan. It was eventually proved that the meetings did occur, and three weeks later the government increased trade penalties against a Brazilian ethanol producer. And there’s more:

    * Parliamentary secretary Warren Entsch’s concrete company won a massive government contract in breach of the code.

    * Peter Reith was appointed as a consultant to defence contractor Tenix immediately after resigning as defence minister.

    * Health minister Michael Wooldridge signed a $5 million building deal for the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners and days later, after resigning as health minister, was employed by the college as a consultant.

    * Senator Coonan, as Minister for Revenue, avoided paying a land tax. She was then exposed and forced to resign as a registered director of an insurance dispute resolution company operating from her own home.

    * Wilson Tuckey, then Minister for Regional Services, Territories and Local Government, heavied a state police minister on behalf of a family member.

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/22/1061529333629.html

    * Parliamentary secretary Bob Woods retired from politics when he was under police investigation for travel rorts.

    * Communication minister Richard Alston’s family trust held Telstra shares.

    * Peter Costello, the Treasurer, appointed Liberal Party megadonor Robert Gerard to the Reserve Bank board despite being told by Mr Gerard that he was involved in a 14-year long tax evasion dispute with the Australian Taxation Office.

    * Three ministers – John Sharp, David Jull and Peter McGauran – were forced to resign as a result of travel rorts involving false claims, mismanagement or cover-ups.

    * Parliamentary secretary Bill Heffernan was forced to resign over fabricated claims against a High Court judge.

    What else have we had over the past 10 years? Ten years of public policy failure. A partial – very partial – list would include:

    * the massive pork-barrelling of the $1 billion Federation Fund program;

    * the scandal over the budget leak about MRI machines;

    * the development of a culture of assumption and denial in DIMIA while Mr Ruddock was minister for immigration, which the Comrie report called failed, catastrophic and dehumanised; the wrongful and scandalous deportation of Australian citizen Vivian Alvarez Solon;

    * the wrongful and scandalous detention of Cornelia Rau at Baxter detention centre;

    * the utter incompetence of veterans’ affairs minister Dana Vale over roadworks at Anzac Cove;

    * the rorting of the $500 million Regional Partnerships program, with massively disproportionate grants being allocated to coalition seats – not to mention the Tumbi Creek and Beaudesert Rail scandals under the same program; and

    * support for the training of scab labour in Dubai to work on the waterfront and the use of dogs and security guards in balaclavas during the waterfront dispute as waterside workers were sacked under the cover of darkness with the loss of all entitlements and, in some cases, personal possessions.

    Of course, the Prime Minister introduced the GST after promising he never, ever would.

    * The Howard government have sponsored many attacks on the independence of the judiciary and the courts, including repeated slurs by Senator Heffernan in this chamber and in Senate estimates.

    * They scrapped the free Commonwealth dental health scheme for low-income people.

    * They put back the cause of reconciliation irrevocably by refusing to say sorry to the stolen generations.

    * They blurred the line between church and state by the disastrous appointment of Archbishop Hollingworth as Governor-General of Australia.

    Within days of coming to office, the Howard government sacked six departmental secretaries and have since politicised the public service so that officials will never offer frank and fearless advice. In fact, the government have encouraged a culture where advice of any kind from a public servant is not welcome.

    * They have increased government staffing of ministers and parliamentary secretaries from 293 when they came to office to 430 now, many paid above the salary range.

    * They cynically manipulated public sentiment about asylum seekers for political advantage.

    * They refused to sign the Kyoto protocol to deal with our greatest global environmental challenge – climate change.

    * They sponsored attacks from the former communications minister Richard Alston and from government backbenchers over alleged ABC bias while making partisan appointments to the ABC board.

    * They introduced draconian industrial legislation to strip away the hard-won rights of Australian workers.

    * They introduced the flawed Pacific solution, which has seen detention centres on Nauru and Manus Island remain open without any detainees.

    * They have allowed an Australian citizen, David Hicks, to be held overseas without charge or trial for more than four years and left him to face a highly flawed tribunal process without making any efforts to ensure he will have a fair trial.

    Then there was the dithering over preferences to One Nation, giving succour, as a result, to Pauline Hanson and tacit approval of her racist views.

    * There was the billion dollar bungling of major defence upgrade and acquisition projects. There was the massive blow-out of $2 billion in the Commonwealth’s consultancies bill.

    * There was the complete fiasco of the family tax benefit debt trap, which has slugged millions of Australian families with over $1.5 billion in debts.

    * There is the fiasco of child-care shortages and the broken promise of the government on the child-care rebate.

    * We have had the Minister for Health and Ageing, Tony Abbott, presiding over private health insurance premium hikes, which have totally absorbed the government rebate.

    * We have had the plunge in bulk-billing rates and the breaking of the health minister’s promise not to increase the Medicare safety net threshold.

    We really have seen 10 years of sleaze, deception and manipulation. We would be here all night if I had time to list every sorry exploit of the Howard government, but I do not. A mere sample includes:

    * National Textiles, the company headed by the Prime Minister’s brother, Stan Howard, which was bailed out by the government to the tune of $4 million;

    * the infamous Peter Reith telecard affair; and

    * the lies and deceit of ‘children overboard’

    Then this nation was committed to war in Iraq on the basis of faulty intelligence about weapons of mass destruction while the government claimed that they were not aiming for regime change in Iraq.

    But when the government’s claims about weapons of mass destruction proved false, of course regime change became the justification for the war in Iraq. Never before has an Australian government sent our troops to war and lied to the Australian people about the reason for doing so.

    We had Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty heavied for doing no more than stating the obvious about the increased terrorist threat in Australia after our involvement in Iraq.

    * We have had public servants and senior defence officers forced to take the blame over the government’s denials about their knowledge of the abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison.

    * We have had an unprecedented amount of public money splurged in advertising campaigns – as the Auditor-General has reported – to promote Liberal Party policies in the lead-up to the last three federal elections when the Howard government was in office.

    * We have even had the government write the name of the Federal Liberal Party into electoral legislation on 33 occasions to strip the Liberal state divisions of public funding. They even now use the parliament for their own dirty factional work.

    Despite the farcical denials that we have heard about Senator Hill’s appointment, he is about to become the 18th former Liberal Party politician to be appointed by the Howard government to a plum diplomatic post.

    Mr Howard perverted the accepted definition of an election promise. He broke promises willy-nilly but just redefined those broken promises as ‘non-core’ promises.

    What about the Nixonian leaking of a classified document to Andrew Bolt in order to politically assassinate its author, Andrew Wilkie, while not vetoing the leaker from contesting a Liberal Party preselection ballot?

    We also had a situation where Mr Howard’s government engineered the sleaziest of deals with a former Labor senator, Mal Colston, to promote Colston to the deputy presidency of the Senate in return for Colston’s vote on crucial legislation. How low can you go? Just recently, we had the unprecedented gagging of public servants before estimates committees.

    Kickbacks to Saddam

    Mr Howard himself, his senior minister, and his entire government have turned a blind eye to kickbacks paid to Saddam Hussein’s regime to ensure wheat sales. At the same time, we had Mr Howard self-righteously proclaiming that Saddam Hussein is a ‘loathsome dictator’. They turned a blind eye to our single-desk wheat exporter, who practically became the banker of the Baath Party in Iraq. Who knows where that money ended up? Who knows what it paid for?

    What we do know is that, under the government’s own terrorist legislation, if someone acts recklessly and funds turn up in the hands of terrorists, the guilty party is subject to life imprisonment. You go to jail and they throw away the keys if you recklessly engage in an action under our terrorism laws where financial resources end up in the hands of a terrorist. Let us see what happens in relation to the Howard government, which has acted as Saddam Hussein’s banker.

    Of course, all these sins mean nothing to the Howard government. After all, how can they repent what they cannot recall? This government, and its hand-picked sycophants, suffers from the worst case of collective amnesia in medical and political history.

    What are the bywords of the Howard government? ‘I cannot recall,’ ‘I don’t recollect,’ ‘I wasn’t informed,’ ‘I can’t remember,’ ‘I have no recollection of that.’

    Best of all, we had Trevor Flugge of AWB fame claiming, as his defence, that he is hard of hearing. It seems to me the whole of this government is hard of hearing. They are certainly deaf to the cries of conscience.

    NOTE: This is an edited excerpt of a parliamentary speech by Senator John Faulkner, 22 March 2006.

  40. Those six so called “attributes” don’t make Abbott PM material, they just make you an idiot.

    But you don’t have to emphasise that point, as we already know that, so just try and answer the question, but we also know… ya got nothin’.

  41. Iain, has not the penny dropped, we are not interested in what you or your ilk think or say. You are entitled to whatever views you like.

    We are just fed up with hearing them over and over and over

  42. Iain Hall
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 9:59 AM
    Ricky
    Your hypothetical is silly and pointless and is dangerously close to angels on the head of a pin territory.

    Oh nice poetic analogy, like to see how real talent uses such a beautiful turn of phrase.

    Yes Iian sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction…seeing as you now have a fan base as elected leader of the troll army, maybe you could work on the six?

  43. Ricky, plus the Morgan poll is face to face which fits in with the theory (which I wrote..and wrote about some time ago) that the majority of current polling techniques do not accurately reflect voter intentions due to the now very passé method of telephone polling. Hey kiddies, remember those things..they’re the black or white objects with a dial or buttons which sit on the table in the hallway and go brrrringgg, brrringggg which granny or grandpop picks up to talk on.

  44. Gave you six Ricky
    Here they are again:
    Attribute 1: Tony Abbott is not Julia Gillard.
    Attribute 2: Tony Abbott is not Kevin Rudd.
    Attribute 3: Tony Abbott is not a member of the ALP.
    Attribute 4: Tony Abbott is not beholden to the corrupt union movement.
    Attribute 5: Tony Abbott is not a bloody Lawyer
    Attribute 6: Tony Abbott is not claiming victim-hood because of his gender.
    Cheers

    On Paul Kelly. I love his songs and his clever phasing but my wife the music teacher keeps saying that his singing leaves a bit to be desired , I suppose its a matter of taste though because I think what he lacks in the voice department he makes up with sincerity and being able to “sell” the song well. 😀

  45. Truth Seeker
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 10:04 AM
    Those six so called “attributes” don’t make Abbott PM material, they just make you an idiot.
    But you don’t have to emphasise that point, as we already know that, so just try and answer the question, but we also know… ya got nothin’.

    Did miss something or is someone still drunk? To be completely fair and balanced like, Fox, Bolt or Cocaman, we offer the opportunity to convince us delude left minions myth busting purveyors of realistic truth.

  46. MIn
    I think that the distinction you make between those with and without landlines is rather oversold by those who want to pretend that “young” people don’t have the same diversity of political opinions as the rest of the people.

  47. Sorry, everytime Abbott opens mouth, he whinges about being picked on. even now making complaints tha the ABC is bias.

    The crime being they ask him questions.

    Like all bulies, they are the first to a call foul

    The PM just pointed out a few actions of Mr. Abbott and a few words that came out of hos mouth. If the cap fits wear it.

    As for Hockey and twitter. He owuld have been better, quickly apolisiing, saying he was not thinkiong when he called the PM a coward, Instead he gets his back up, and is now blocking people. Not a very thoughtful or prudent action for hm to take. I am willing to give HOCKEY THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, HE IS NOT AS FULL OF HATE AS SOME.
    .

  48. Ricky
    You did not ask for arguments that would convince you to endorse Abbott, just the attributes that would make him worthy for the high office of Prime Minister.
    Anyway how about you give us six reasons why this government should be returned at the next election, and just to make it interesting lets see you do it on the same terms that you are now expecting of me, namely please try to make your case without mentioning Abbott or the opposition and their policies.

  49. It would be fascinating to see just how many Pauline Hanson supporters now back Tony Abbott.

    I know a few who have conveniently forgotten Abbott had hanson jailed on trumped up charges for political reasons.

  50. [Abbott] even now making complaints tha the ABC is bias.

    The ABC Shop is even selling his stinking book, FFS. Yes, the ABC is biased alright – biased towards the Fiberals.

    http://shop.abc.net.au/products/battlelines

    Note, the comments thread there (like so many places in the media and even here at the Cafe), appears to have been worked by astroturfers also.

  51. “namely please try to make your case without mentioning Abbott or the opposition and their policies.”

    Why should we take noticed of your request.

    We need to remind you, this is not your site. We do not have to do anything, that visitors demand. That is not the role of guests.

    I know that it is understandable that you might forgtet, as you specnd so much time here.

    Must be lonely over on your site, as even you cNNOT stand to spend time on it.

  52. Tony Abbott’s popularity is lower than the shit on your shoes and the only place it is going is down. Down among the deadman.

  53. Iain Hall
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 10:14 AM
    Gave you six Ricky
    Here they are again:
    Attribute 1: Tony Abbott is not Julia Gillard.
    Attribute 2: Tony Abbott is not Kevin Rudd.
    Attribute 3: Tony Abbott is not a member of the ALP.
    Attribute 4: Tony Abbott is not beholden to the corrupt union movement.
    Attribute 5: Tony Abbott is not a bloody Lawyer
    Attribute 6: Tony Abbott is not claiming victim-hood because of his gender.
    Cheers

    Iian even by your standard’s that is pathetic. I will take that as desperate avoidance, like his great policy legacy as health minister, a shambolic lie. If this is your answer, you leave your messiah sadly wanting.

    On Paul Kelly. I love his songs and his clever phasing but my wife the music teacher keeps saying that his singing leaves a bit to be desired , I suppose its a matter of taste though because I think what he lacks in the voice department he makes up with sincerity and being able to “sell” the song well.

    He is our contemporary, Lawson or Paterson. His voice is amazing, like Dylan unique to his sound. Vocal gymnastics, like political rhetoric is window dressing for lack of substance, especially in art.. Not everyone needs to be “La Stupenda” ( Australia’s greatest voice) to covey truth.

  54. Cu, “We are just fed up with hearing them over and over and over” and not backed up by factual information. We don’t expect policies from Tony Abbott as even as recent with the roads funding back down, all promises are bound to be broken..what I am talking about is a vision for the future..what sort of Australia do the Libs/Nats want?

    So far all that we have is that they intend to cause an international incident via their We’ll Turn Back the Boats and Up Yours Indonesia policy, money for private nannies and au pairs and planting trees on naturestrips. Almost forgot..Tony at one time promised more surveillance cameras at roundabouts..but I suspect that it will be yet another of his policies which goes ’round and ’round in circles. 😉

  55. Cuppa
    One would hardly expect that those who bought any book about one particular side of our politics would attract too many who barrack for the other team, and three review comments don’t match even the widest definition of “Astroturfing”

  56. Min, yes they are unbelievable. Wonder what they dream of. The hatred is so pungent, they cannot even alllow themselves to enjoy holidays.

  57. Iain, as we all know and you certainly have been around on the blog scene long enough to know that the stats are always that Labor gains a majority of it’s support from the younger democraphic while the Libs/Nats gain theirs from old farts the older demographic.

    Certainly the young have a diversity of opinion however have always veered towards the progressive rather than the conservative.

  58. Iian you know full well what I mean, 🙄
    Good catholic
    truthful
    egalitarian
    economic Visionary
    nice bloke

  59. Iain even by your standards that is pathetic. I will take that as desperate avoidance, like his great policy legacy as health minister, a shambolic lie. If this is your answer, you leave your messiah sadly wanting.

    Given the fact that those who change their votes and kick out the Gillard crew won’t be the committed latte sippers but those who drink tea as well as fancy coffee, depending on their mood, all of my six attributes will be enough to make enough of them reach for the tea-pot rather than the coffee maker in sufficient numbers to change the government.

    On Paul Kelly. I love his songs and his clever phasing but my wife the music teacher keeps saying that his singing leaves a bit to be desired , I suppose its a matter of taste though because I think what he lacks in the voice department he makes up with sincerity and being able to “sell” the song well.

    He is our contemporary, Lawson or Paterson. His voice is amazing, like Dylan unique to his sound. Vocal gymnastics, like political rhetoric is window dressing for lack of substance, especially in art.. Not everyone needs to be “La Stupenda” ( Australia’s greatest voice) to covey truth.

    I tend to agree with you about vocal tricks being rather overused and window dressing. As I said I do really love Kelly’s songs and as a “words” person rather than a “music” person I love the way that his songs always have a story to tell and a really clever way of using verbal imagery and novel metaphors.

  60. It’s nice that capitalism is so strong in Australia and that Labor is heading up a finely directed political State doing a much better job for our ruling class than Mistahrabbit and his cronies could do.

  61. Hall,

    Check the comment titles, “Go Tony Go!”, “The battle is won”, etc.

    Spam. Sloganesque.

    Once again you’re turning contortions to avoid truth and facts. Fiberal are spammers, you’re one yourself.

    Astroturfers ‘R Us.

    All Spin No Substance.

    Lies Not Policies LNP.

    They came to praise Abbott, and to praise and praise and praise

    … Assailed by unfortunate allegations that [Abbott] had a problem with women and 35 years ago had assaulted a wall to intimidate a female opponent

    […]

    Defenders of the faith, clearly, were required.

    Hardly had the doors swung open on a new week of Parliament than Abbott’s loyal knight, Christopher Pyne, fumed in bearing a torch for his leader.
    Advertisement

    ‘The Tony Abbott I know,” he offered to any microphone in the vicinity, ”is just last weekend a person who went out with his local fire brigade to do a controlled burn-off, and spent Sunday leading a blind person to the end of his first full marathon”.

    Mr Pyne, apparently burning with barely controlled passion himself, was merely warming up.

    The Tony Abbott I know,” he continued, ”is a Rhodes scholar, a person with an economics degree, a person who has more experience than any other would-be prime minister in Australia’s history – experience in government.”

    Mr Abbott’s deputy, Julie Bishop, wasn’t having any of this nonsense about her leader having a problem with women, either.

    ”It’s a blatant and orchestrated campaign of character assassination,” she fumed. [Cuppa’s Note: That’s Right Wing Projection.]

    ”Let me tell you about the Tony Abbott that I know.

    ”While Labor was fantasising about what Tony Abbott didn’t do 35 years ago, Tony Abbott spent Saturday with his local fire brigade volunteering to undertake a fire reduction burn.

    […]

    To ensure the message was spread as far as possible, both Mr Pyne and Ms Bishop repeated their testimonials, virtually word for word, for ABC24-TV and ABC News Radio. The Tony Abbott they knew was a volunteer fire brigade burn-off man etc etc

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/they-came-to-praise-abbott-and-to-praise-and-praise-and-praise-20120917-262nx.html

    All Spin No Substance

  62. Personally I would rather read about all that this PM has achieved.

    I remember back in the Whitlam crisies, where I was trapped in my home with much ironing and four young children.

    There was much excitement,drama, name calling and alleged scandal.

    None of that has remained in the public mind today.

    The numerous achievements, we still benifit from.

    The same occurred with Keating, the most hated I believe PM. Thanks to him and his achievement, we coped with that GFC better than most, nearly all.

    Yes, if our PM goes, she wil have left a worthwhile legacy,

    What do we remember Mr. Howard for, after his twelve years of rule.Not much, I am afraid. We remember Mr. Menzies for less.

  63. Not t hat interested in the wet dreams of those from the right, with their wishful thinking, that they mistake for facts.

  64. Min @ 10:41 am

    Iain, as we all know and you certainly have been around on the blog scene long enough to know that the stats are always that Labor gains a majority of it’s support from the younger demographic while the Libs/Nats gain theirs from old farts the older demographic.

    I appreciate that idea Min but I don;t think that the trend is as all pervasive as most of you lefties like to think, especially once you get outside of the Latte-belt of the inner cities .

    Ricky (Tory Torcher) 10:42 am

    Iain you know full well what I mean, 🙄

    Good catholic

    Yes he is a man of faith, which he holds sincerely and he has a supportive wife and three daughters who attest to him living the values not just mouthing the liturgy.
    truthful
    Yes I think that he is truthful
    egalitarian
    Without doubt he values the equality of humans why would you doubt it?

    economic Visionary

    personally I would prefer to suggest that he is a good economic manager and a steady hand than any sort of visionary because the trouble with visionaries is that they very often need glasses because wha. they see in the future is mostly wrong or distorted by ideology,

    nice bloke

    I have not met him personally but I do think that he is a nice bloke.

  65. @ the Hall troll

    pterosaur1 @ 9:28 am
    Migs, I found the collection of regurgitated bile in the post rather sickening myself. 😕

    should read (for thse whose comprehension is tried)

    Migs, I found the collection of regurgitated bile in the post rather in the quotes posted rather sickening myself. 😕

    As for the rest of the opinions it offers, typically worthless.
    For it, and other trolls, the only objection I have to their behaviour is their attempt to proselytise their unwanted dogmas. At least the purveyors of fundamentalist religions eventually “get the message” 😈

    That they attempt to do so, through denial, lies and slurs (among other errors) in the face of facts which contradict their opinions merely confirms the validity of the post, and my conclusions.

    They still have nothing

  66. ‘…he is a nice bloke.’

    A real Australian who will transform this continent into a vibrant habitat for millions of new arrivals.

  67. Cuppa @ 10:56 am

    Hall,

    Can’t you keep it friendly and address me as Iain?

    Check the comment titles, “Go Tony Go!”, “The battle is won”, etc.

    I would if I knew precisely what you were referring to, in any event why does it matter that some people like Tony’s book and they are not afraid to say so?

    Spam. Sloganesque.

    well I can say precisely the same thing about your comments

    Once again you’re turning contortions to avoid truth and facts. Fiberal are spammers, you’re one yourself.

    Take out your handkerchief and wipe away the excessive spittle from your face, sit down and take a deep breath. We live in a democracy where people don’t all think alike, that is a GOOD thing and grown ups can discuss those differences with respect and good grace. You should try it sometime.

    Astroturfers ‘R Us.

    thus you demonstrate the shallowness of your personal politics and a rather arrogant disdain for ordinary voters.

    All Spin No Substance.

    the Labor party is worse by any measure at this modern sin

    Lies Not Policies LNP.

    You complain about us conservatives ‘sloganeering” yet that is almost all you personally do here.

  68. Iian you know it’s very naughty to copy others work. You may have noticed the strike through….

    Abbott has proven beyond any reasonable shadow of doubt he has none of the qualities I have listed. Don’t take it from me, take it from the foremost economic mind in the country for whom he worked DR Hewson,
    “Economics is not Tony’s strong point”

    Tony Abbott will most certainly follow Henson’s political death (losing the unlosable election).

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/abbott-no-captain-courageous-20100528-wlbr.html

    . http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/how-tony-abbott-laboured-over-choice-of-party/story-fn59niix-1226494801586

  69. Abbott certainly chose the correct party for himself. One full of deceivers, liars, morally bankrupts and screwers of the Australian public at every opportunity.

    Right down his limited mentality alley.

  70. Did not know that one had to believe what they are told by the right.

    Did not know that a democracy meant, we had to endure having right wing veiws pushed down out throats.

    I did not know we could not tell those with opposing views to get lost.

    Iain, your idea of democracy is nothing like mine.

    Iain, it is not so much about views, or who is good or bad.

    It should be about what we want from our governemnts. It is about what our aims are, what outcomes we want.

    This she is eveil. worse PM etc is just plain childish, leads nowhere.

  71. Iain, this is left wing site. We talk about left wing things.

    We do not tell others what to think.

    If they listen and take on board, all the better. We do not demand they or you come here.

    You are free to agree or disagree.

    We are not invading your territory.

    You are not free to abuse or denigate, as you believe you are.

    I am not friendly, as I do not feel friendly towards people who share your attitude to iothers. your superiority and arrogrance.

    Iain, you have taken the bait well and truly today. Hook, line and sinker.

  72. Coalition Policies

    We will cut pensions and abolish tax cuts. [Cite: article]

    We will raise the tax-free threshold as part of abolishing the carbon tax.

    We want to raise the GST, which would push up the cost of every good and service you buy. [Cite: article]

    We will impose our own Great Big New Tax that dwarfs Labor’s so-called “carbon tax”. It will push up the cost of every good and service that you buy. [Cite: Tony’s great big tax]

    We will make small business pay more tax. [Cite: Coalition vows to dump tax breaks for millions of small business owners]

    We will impose a more vicious WorkChoices to abolish your job security and cut your pay and working conditions.

    We will pay rich mothers more welfare than poor mothers. [Cite: Abbott’s parental leave scheme is an unfair stinker]

    We will cut funding to public schools. [Cite: Private schools hard done by, says Abbott]

    We have a $70 billion budget black hole. [Cite: article]

    We will sack thousands of workers. [Cite: Business jitters over Hockey’s PS jobs threat]

    We will overturn the ban on mortgage exit fees. [Cite: Scheme to revive exit fees draws Choice’s ire]

  73. Ricky (Tory Torcher) @ 11:40 am

    Iain you know it’s very naughty to copy others work. You may have noticed the strike through….

    Portions of any work that are quoted are reproduced on the basis of the “fair dealing for purpose of criticism or review” section 41 of the Copyright Act 1968. and I also made good use of the HTML blockquote prompts to make it clear that I was quoting 😉

    Abbott has proven beyond any reasonable shadow of doubt he has none of the qualities I have listed. Don’t take it from me, take it from the foremost economic mind in the country for whom he worked DR Hewson,
    “Economics is not Tony’s strong point”

    Personally I don’t rate Hewson that highly and besides which the economy is not the be all and end all of politics

    Tony Abbott will most certainly follow Henson’s political death (losing the unlosable election).

    Frankly you can’t credibly cite Hewson as an example of expertise and a political exemplar and then as an example of a political failure in the one comment if you want to be taken seriously.

  74. ‘It should be about what we want from our governments. It is about what our aims are, what outcomes we want.’

    That’s the wonderful thing about democracy, majority rules.

    When Abbott and his team capture the Treasury benches you’ll say we’ve been robbed by a biased media, but in fact the people choose wisely.

    My main grouch with joolya is the carbon tax and asylum seekers, she has no idea.

  75. C’mon You Neocon trolls..time for reflection. You got a forum to be heard, then Migs just simply put a mirror to your comments.

    Does your ass look big in this?….yes

    Is the reflection ugly?…yes trolls are ugly.

    Do you look futile, & desperate?..yes

    Has Migs represented you all as stupid?…No, you have on reflection done that all by yourselves.

    Is this a true reflection of your position? Yes

    Has Migs misrepresented you? Absolutely not.

    Has the Plot been revealed? indubitably

  76. Coalition Economic Management
    ‘Records’ of Howard / Costello

    * The biggest-taxing government in Australia’s history
    * The biggest trade deficit ever recorded
    * The longest run of successive monthly trade deficits ever recorded
    * Biggest foreign debt in Australia’s history (number 4 in the world in dollar terms)
    * Highest levels of household and business debt ever recorded
    * The lowest value of the AU$ (2001)
    * 94% of the mining boom tax windfall frittered away in just 2.5 years
    * Interest rates consistently above the OECD average
    * Highest inflation in 16 years
    * In mortgage rates, the highest interest component-to-average income level ever recorded
    * Housing affordability the lowest ever
    * Personal bankruptcies the highest in two decades
    * Government investment in Tertiary Education in reverse

  77. Catching up @ 11:51 am

    Florence

    Did not know that one had to believe what they are told by the right.

    I have never expected that you would be in anyway obliged to think in any way taht does not please you

    Did not know that a democracy meant, we had to endure having right wing veiws pushed down out throats.

    Gee I may be mistaken but this is a post that is entirely about the views espoused by the conservatives, like myself, who seek refreshments here at the Cafe so surely you can’t be surprised that we are defending our views in the subsequent thread?

    I did not know we could not tell those with opposing views to get lost.

    You can tell us anything you please but we are not obliged to pay such admonishments any heed.

    Iain, your idea of democracy is nothing like mine.

    That is sad because mine is a very inclusive one but I would love to hear you explain your vision of democracy.

    Iain, it is not so much about views, or who is good or bad.

    It should be about what we want from our governments. It is about what our aims are, what outcomes we want.

    Hmm I don’t think our view of democracy can really be that different to be honest

    This she is evil. worse PM etc is just plain childish, leads nowhere.

    Well can I direct you to my second comment on this thread where I point out that I don’t think Gillard evil, just incompetent


    Catching up @ 11:56 am

    Iain, this is left wing site. We talk about left wing things.

    So? its also a place where the siteowner is open to commenter diversity which is a very good thing.

    We do not tell others what to think.

    You lot constant attack and deride those who don’t follow the party line so I think that you are mistaken on this point

    If they listen and take on board, all the better. We do not demand they or you come here.

    I think in your heart of hearts you must really wish that no one ever offered a contrary viewpoint here

    You are free to agree or disagree.

    that is rather disingenuous to be honest.

    We are not invading your territory.

    Nor are we conservatives because there is no ideological qualification to comment here.

    You are not free to abuse or denigrate, as you believe you are.

    Its a two way street Florence and there is much more abuse and denigration directed at conservatives than is dished out by them

    I am not friendly, as I do not feel friendly towards people who share your attitude to others. your superiority and arrogance.

    Well I am not going to hold that against you Florence, all that I can do is hope that you can evolve enough to get over those feelings.

    Iain, you have taken the bait well and truly today. Hook, line and sinker.

    Really? How can you complain about our participation at this blog and then say this?

  78. Iain, nothing sinks in does it.

    No matter what, you still stick to the same path.

    We have evolved much further than you are ever likely. I can still imagine when you reach my age, still spruiking the same nonsense. Still behaving in chilldish manner, not even relising that pepole are sending you up, for their own amusement.

  79. Iain, you do not criticise our ideas. You criticise our beliefs. You do not criticise the PM for what she has done. You criticise her for who she is. You criticise because you do not like, do not fit in with your beliefs.

  80. “Gee I may be mistaken but this is a post that is entirely about the views espoused by the conservatives, like myself, who seek refreshments here at the Cafe so surely you can’t be surprised that we are defending our views in the subsequent thread”
    I think it is more about sending you all up. Pointing out the stupidity of most of the comments posted over recent times.

    It was also acknowlwdge, or at least expected, you would defend yourselves with more of the same.

    Why would we expect anything more, as time has shown, this is all you are capable of.

    Nothing that comes from your way, ever adds to the debate.

    Just deversions to what has been said, which is your intent.

    See, we can work things out.

    You were giving the chance to explain yourselves earlier and failed the challenged.

  81. And Cuppa that doesn’t even get into primary and secondary education, health, infrastructure, skills shortages and one of their greatest sins, R&D.

    All things that were well and truly flagged numerous times and all things that were duly ignored or cut back whilst being made political footballs.

    It leads to one thing the Liberals do profusely, blame shift for their own failings. Howard was the master of it.

  82. “And that, folks, is about all we get across the blogosphere, here at this blog or at other blog sites as well as Facebook and Twitter. The same old same old. Julia Gillard is evil (without any evidence) and Tony Abbott is a modern day saint (without any evidence).

    As we move in to the election year we can expect the galahs to squawk even louder.

    Brace yourself.”

    Cannot see an invitation there. Just an acknowledgement that you all will be out in force, no matter what we want or think.

    What we will not get, is anything new. Just a rehash of what you all have said before.

    Yes, you have swallowed the bait. I noticed others has the sense to hold off.

  83. Hi Mobius,

    And Cuppa that doesn’t even get into primary and secondary education, health, infrastructure, skills shortages and one of their greatest sins, R&D.

    All things that were well and truly flagged numerous times and all things that were duly ignored or cut back whilst being made political footballs.

    Any links you have I will be glad to add the info to my files, thanks in advance.

  84. Iain Hall
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 12:05 PM
    Ricky (Tory Torcher) @ 11:40 am
    Iain you know it’s very naughty to copy others work. You may have noticed the strike through….
    Portions of any work that are quoted are reproduced on the basis of the “fair dealing for purpose of criticism or review” section 41 of the Copyright Act 1968. and I also made good use of the HTML blockquote prompts to make it clear that I was quoting

    I asked you to hit a six and even gave you examples of how it’s done…your out for a duck first ball. quack quack..

    Personally I don’t rate Hewson that highly and besides which the economy is not the be all and end all of politics

    Of course you don’t rate Dr Hewson BEc hons, MA Ec,(syd) MA Ec PHD Ec (JHU), he is the voice of reason and sensibility in a party that holds John Howard (Australia’s worst treasurer) as having economic credentials. He points out that the leader is a populous idiot devoid of any policy vision whatsoever.
    Oh and by the way Tony Abbott does has a law degree.

    Iain Hall
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 12:40 PM
    Ricky
    Sorry to tell you this but you are more Watson than Holmes when it comes to logical deduction…

    Iian you are just miffed that I post “fact” in response to you inane factless diatribe. I post an article or point out a fact and you comment with baseless, inane, poorly researched opinion which is mostly untrue. You don’t think economics is important because you don’t understand it. You don’t rate one of the most senior liberals in the party because he opposes the lieing populous spin of the neocon right that dominate the fiberals in favour of actual policy.

    You are completely taking the piss, Don’t think for a millisecond I don’t see RIGHT through that charade of intellectual superiority. Its unbecoming and embarrasses you when you cannot back it up. You have nothing; you state nothing you’re a troll and frankly a terrible debater.

    Get that fucking stupid obstinate grin off your dial, take the all-day sucker out of your mouth, stop singing nah nah nah nah nahhh and do your research to support those embarrassingly imbecilic posts…quote opinion quote opinion….yawn :rol:

    Migloo, I know your sitting back watching this pissed laughing your ass off. 🙂

  85. “* 94% of the mining boom tax windfall frittered away in just 2.5 years

    That is wrong. Most of the mining boom money was saved and used to pay off debt or put into various infrastructure schemes or the Future Fund. Costello saved $50B in his last three years. Malcolm Turnbull says the allegation that mining boom money was wasted is wrong. And by the way what has Swan done with mining boom money??

    http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/homepage-speeches-articles/budget-in-reply-speech-labor-wasting-the-boom/

    According to the Treasury’s central case the resources boom delivered a revenue windfall of about $25 billion over the last three budgets delivered by Peter Costello. Those three budgets were in surplus by $53 billion so all of the income from the boom and more was banked, although Treasury’s central case estimate suggests the budget was in a small structural deficit in 2007-08. So much for claims that the Howard government blew the boom!

    I have never met people more factually dishonest than ALP supporters.

    * Interest rates consistently above the OECD average”

    They still are.

  86. When the Police are trying to break an alibi it is consistency that they use to determine the plausibility and truth of the circumstances, so my guess is you lose! Consistency of the message, not all Wessel words as Labor describes what is said by the opposition, even if they use the same words Labor uses. Guilty as sin!

  87. Something that is consistently said by the Liberals that is wrong is still constistently wrong.

    The police analogy fails miserably. Your guess would be wrong, as consistently wrong as Abbott’s lies and misdirections in fact.

  88. Squeal of Sydney,

    Interest rates consistently above the OECD average”

    They still are.

    Hey moron,

    1) The Liars Party promised “record low interest rates”. They even put the lie in writing in election ads. Lies, lies, lies. Following that lie, Australia underwent “the longest tightening cycle on record”, that is, unprecedented interest rate rises!

    2) Interest rates under Labor at the moment are lower than AT ANY TIME under Howard / Costello.

    You’re going onto the Scroll / Ignore list, Squeal, because you bring nothing to the table but Spin and dishonest excuses for the worst government in living memory, the Howard government.

  89. Nil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 1:54 PM
    I have never met people more factually dishonest than ALP supporters.
    “* Interest rates consistently above the OECD average”
    They still are.

    http://www.worldinterestrates.info/

    http://www.fxstreet.com/fundamental/interest-rates-table/

    As always nothing… Next 🙄

    Chris Townley
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 1:55 PM
    When the Police are trying to break an alibi it is consistency that they use to determine the plausibility and truth of the circumstances, so my guess is you lose! Consistency of the message, not all Wessel words as Labor describes what is said by the opposition, even if they use the same words Labor uses. Guilty as sin!

    Based on that analogy, all the evidence has been thrown out of court as a vexatious abuse of process, I’m not sure what your line of questioning is but you have not mounted and plausible argument supported by the facts. Dismissed.

  90. Could someone explain what a Wessel word is, please?

    … not all Wessel words as Labor describes …

    (I’m familiar with “weasel words” … this is a new one on me)

  91. Iain, I mostly read your one sentence comments…. I mostly *scroll* your lengthy BS… when I do take the time (yawn) to read the longer BS its the same old, same old at which point I go back to scrolling your Inain-ities….. I’d suggest if you want to have more impact… ‘less is more’ ….. i.e. the less you write the more I read.. the more you write= *scroll* … me thinks you will still having nothing worth saying ( though the Norwegian blue comment did make me titter if only ’cause it came from a ‘right’ boob 😆 )
    Cuppa, ….. I hear ya 😀 …. bein’ doin’ that….. 😆
    Cu….. dear lady, you are ‘Legend’, IMO ….. I trust your information and the way you present it,( ..can’t say the same for them Trolls and their misinformation projections or their blatant arrogance and un-truths) , and I do like how you don’t flinch as them Trolls try to smash walls and kick in doors around your considered arguments.
    Yes this is a Lefty blog,this is CWU …… a university of life, love, laughter and the truth… with music and footy too !!!! ….. and if them trolls don’t like it …GOOD 😀

  92. “Interest rates under Labor at the moment are lower than AT ANY TIME under Howard / Costello.”

    So?? Surely you are not going to tell me that this is due to Swan. Oh I get it, Swans massive budget deficits are due entirely to the GFC but the low interest rates are due to the genius of Swan.

    Our interest rates are way above a lot of countries. Whether it is good or bad our interest rates would be lower if the Coalition was in power because the budget deficits would not be as big. Swan seems to believe that budget deficits matter because when he just announces a future surplus (not an actual surplus) he comes out and says this has given the Reserve Bank room to move.

    And the Howard govt was a good govt.

    And the Gillard govt is the worst in Australian history.

    And Swan has wasted the whole mining boom. Spent all the money having received the best terms of trade in Australian history. Malcolm Turnbull says Swan has received a terms of trade windfall of $90B and wasted the lot.

    And Labor and its dishonest supporters have the hide to say Costello wasted the boom.

  93. You’re spinning Fiberal party propaganda, Squeal of Sydney.

    But no one’s listening. If we wanted to be subjected to Liberal rubbish we’d be at their so-called “mainstream” media. But we don’t and we’re not.

    We’re here because the Cafe is a place where people think for themselves. We consciously choose to avoid/dispel Liars Party brainwashing. You can be as sucked in by self-harming propaganda as you like, Squeal, but we’re not buying it. Scroll.

  94. Full Circle on Industry Policy PDF File 50.9

    The most important thing Button did was create a tax deduction for R&D. This sent the message to business that R&D was an important activity. The accountants understood this message particularly well. What was previously only seen as a business expense, was now an expense that would generate a higher tax deduction than normal.

    Business expenditure on R&D tripled in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I am convinced this would not have happened without the tax deduction. And in fact, when the Howard government cut the rate of deduction in 1996, business R&D fell as well.

    Australia’s R&D plan attacked as election ploy

    The government’s multibillion-dollar boost to spending on research and development (R&D), higher education and the sciences just reversed cuts in incentives and Federal support for innovation during Howard’s five years in office, they said.

    That last one was a typical Howard trick that he engaged in often. He would slash and burn or run a series of cuts over a cycle then leave the funding at the historically low levels for a while until they either became a media headline, a relatively powerful lobby group campaign or most likely an election issue. He would then throw money at it patting himself on the back on how generous he was being and quoting figures of spending increases that were based on his historical lows, not the previous spending rates before he slashed them.

    Gruen: Carr, with the Greens, close the tax loopholes in R&D

    How was all this affordable? The tax concession’s value had dropped with falling rates of company tax and with John Howard cutting the concessionality of the scheme in half — from 150% to 125%. These changes saw the value of the scheme fall by over two thirds — from 24.5 cents in the dollar to 7.5 cents.

    Note that R&D tax concessions, which are universally lauded, are a Labor implementation that the Liberals opposed.

    Howard takes blunt axe to research

    Lot’s more out there on just R&D and the damage Howard’s cuts did with much research and technology moving offshore. There are articles and papers on the Australian brain drain under Howard and it was considerable. Liberals only ever want a dumb nation with only an elite few of the wealthy educated as long as they pay big for their passes and degrees.

  95. “The Howard Government was a good government”. Really, Nil of Sydney? Care to give us some *evidence* to back your claims? Massive over-spending on Middlce Class Welfare, removal of money from public health, education & infrastructure, creation of a massive housing bubble & Dickensian IR laws suggest otherwise.

    “Gillard’s is the worst government in Australian history”. Again, please provide *evidence*. I actually believe that grand title belongs to the Fraser/Howard government, who gave us government debt & stagflation!

  96. Since your here TB just a personal question. Have you ever been to Al Alamein at Cultana. Had to do some work there for Defence a little while back, very interesting place and huge.

    I note another very expensive closed down and deteriorating onshore detention centre there like the one at Woomera I often pass.

    How much did we spend on onshore centres only to throw the asylum seekers on remote islands?

  97. Not sure how that Amazon ad got to be posted in full display here on the blog. I just pasted in a URL link at the end of my comment. …Anyway, the book does sound interesting because here in the “clever country” there are millions who would vote conservative against their own economic and social interests too. I blame the influence of the media, mostly, naturally enough. There’s not one mainstream outlet that promotes Labor or preaches against the Coalition. The landscape is rigged in favour of the bad guys.

  98. Adrian, I’d never heard of it – just looked it up** – the photos all seem to be of the “modern” green machine … I’m expecting my son any moment for a late lunch – I’ll ask him … (you may recall he was in RAEME and 3 RAR until his para accident – looks like they drop people out of perfectly good ‘planes there … )

    ** My era was Singleton, Kapooka and Pucka … I popped in to Singleton just before I retired and it had a skeleton staff … they let me look at maps but couldn’t go onto the base proper … would have been nice to show, The Minister, 6 Pl lines … where I “lived & learned” for 10 weeks!

    ( Since your here TB … I pop over for a squizz a few times a week … drop me a line …

  99. Cuppa there are a series of book on the subject, a couple by Frank and some collaborations. Deer Hunting with Jesus by Joe Bageant is another on the meme. He has also written extensively on it.

    It’s a similar situation here where the two groups most screwed by Liberal governments at both Federal and State levels mostly vote for the Liberals. That is the rural and pensioner demographics.

    Interestingly they are the demographics most likely to be polled.

    I don’t believe it’s because of the media, though they play a role in spreading the conservatives main tactic of fear. These are the groups that are the most afraid and the conservatives feed into that fear and the media propagates it.

    It’s another reason conservatives don’t like a highly educated public as it’s harder to keep a well informed population scared based on lies and deceits. It’s what happened to Howard eventually. The constant fear campaigns he ran bore little relevance to reality so the people finally dumped him big time.

  100. I believe it’s a long established firing range with a huge impact area down south. It’s also the main Army 4WD training area and you can see that by Google Earth.

    Very interesting and facinating place. Not as much as Port Wakefield P&EE. The history of the WWII German Rail Gun that was there is mind blowing stuff.

    You don’t know these places exist until you have a reason to go there and it’s not as though they are kept secret. Google tells you all about them, plus they are huge areas.

    Anyway back to the very important job at hand. Telling the truth about the utter failures of Liberal governments. Though Labor isn’t squeaky clean by any means, their malfeasance and failure pale in comparison.

  101. Hi all. Been reading this blog for some time now and really enjoy it. Keep up the good work ! I just googled – iain hall troll. Very interesting chap to say the least…….

  102. @ Mo 2:48pm

    Have you ever been to Al Alamein at Cultana.

    Hope I’m not intruding ?
    I know the place quite well from my time at Port Augusta (early ’60’s) when myself and a couple of friends spent a fair bit of time exploring the “tent hills” on what were then, probably illicit trips.
    There were good razor fish beds which could only be accessed through (in?) the Reserve, “ceremony” stuff too, I believe.
    Later I spent a 3-4(+ ?) week training camp there while in the CMF.

  103. * 94% of the mining boom tax windfall frittered away in just 2.5 years”

    I have seen this statement many times by Labor supporters. It is actually a lie from hell. I will say Labor is an amazing political party. Their supporters can get away with lies like Costello wasted the mining boom when in fact he saved $50B. Whereas Wayne Swan has wasted the whole lot and the same people say nothing.

    http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/homepage-speeches-articles/budget-in-reply-speech-labor-wasting-the-boom/

    During the four budgets delivered so far by Labor in this term of government the Treasury figures from October last year suggest that the federal government has benefited from a terms of trade windfall of at least $90 billion, with the largest single boost coming in the 2011-12 financial year we are about to commence. According to the latest government forecasts deficits run up by Labor over those four years from 2008-09 to 2011-12 will total $154 billion. Regardless of the impact of the global financial crisis those figures speak for themselves. And for all Labor’s claims that its record deficits have been caused by weak revenues, first because of the GFC and more recently because of the strong exchange rate, capital gains losses, which have reduced post-GFC capital gains tax collections and the patchwork economy, if we really want to understand what has been going on with the federal budget we need to look at the outlays side—the spending side.”

    This was from Turnbull budget speech as Opposition leader. If his numbers are wrong he could be accused of misleading Parliament.

    It is Labor who has wasted the mining boom and the best terms of trade in history. Furthermore they have already factored into the budget money they may not receive. We now really do have a large structural deficit.

  104. Nil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 2:30 PM
    “Interest rates under Labor at the moment are lower than AT ANY TIME under Howard / Costello.”
    So?? Surely you are not going to tell me that this is due to Swan. Oh I get it, Swans massive budget deficits are due entirely to the GFC but the low interest rates are due to the genius of Swan.

    You just can’t put brains in a statue can you? Notice he brings it up and I post a fact and he scurries’ like a cockroach . Then claims we are dishonest/ Bizarre.

    Our interest rates are way above a lot of countries. Whether it is good or bad our interest rates would be lower if the Coalition was in power because the budget deficits……

    Economic as well as political pygmy…wow I’m impressed. Just add racist and you have the trifecta.

    And Swan has wasted the whole mining boom. Spent all the money having received the best terms of trade in Australian history. Malcolm Turnbull says Swan has received a terms of trade windfall of $90B and wasted the lot.

    What a genius. This troll cuts and pastes from Malcolm Turnbulls site.
    Here is a book you should read over the break.
    http://www.whale.to/b/bernays.pdf

    And Labor and its dishonest supporters have the hide to say Costello wasted the boom.

    Yeah don’t pick on sneaky Pete the figure fiddler. His economic credentials were asserted with his current audit of QLD. If you’re gonna lie, get a professional with form.
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-govt-forced-to-defend-budget-audit-20120908-25kkm.html
    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3585212.htm
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/professor-fires-at-costello-claims-on-audit-20120915-25znd.html

    Mark
    DECEMBER 26, 2012 @ 3:16 PM
    Hi all. Been reading this blog for some time now and really enjoy it. Keep up the good work ! I just googled – iain hall troll. Very interesting chap to say the least……..

    He’s got form Guv..
    See Iian your famous, no wonder you have disciples of deception in the Neo-conning troll tribe

  105. Most of the mining boom money was saved and used to pay off debt or put into various infrastructure schemes or the Future Fund.”

    Neil, I’ve tried to explain this quite a few times before: the so-called “Future Fund” was a trick.

    The Coalition was faced with a problem of what to do with all its left-over Telstra shares and needed a place to park them until they could be dribbled away into the market without anybody noticing.

    George Orwell Advertising Inc came up with the brilliant name “Future Fund” which described something that was actually a fund that would ROB the future by withholding government spending (aka generating surpluses) from urgently needed repairs to the country’s neglected infrastructure.

    Some seed money was chucked in (some of which was “invested” in tobacco and various financial “products”) to rouge the pig, and off we went.

    The punters, who were easily fooled with endless repetition of “The Great Lie”: “government finances are no different from any ordinary household” were told that the “Future Fund” was needed to cover the government’s future pension liabilities, thought was what a prudent economic manager should be doing and applauded enthusiastically. The truth of course, was the exact opposite.

    The profligate Labor Party ratted some of the fund (ie sold some tobacco shares) to spend on boring infrastructure (like hospitals, railway lines, education etc) but had to be sneaky how they did it for fear of upsetting the punters who slept better at night knowing that somewhere there was a locked box of freshly minted dollar bills that retired public sector workers could access in the next wave of austerity.

  106. pterosaur1.

    Hope he doesn’t mind me saying, but Migs is a Port Augusta lad. Sent him some pictures of the retiring power station and township from an angle the public don’t get to see.

  107. He’s got form alright, Ricky. Very interesting bio in Encyclopedia Dramatica. for our Iain. I wonder if he’s managed to get a job yet. I mean apart from trolling.

  108. MJ you could spend your life explaining to Neil in the greatest detail or the simplest terms, but when it comes to his beloved Liberals, and especially the terrible Howard, he is ideologically deaf, dumb, blind and a complete closed mind. He will either spew the same crap over and over, or if some unpalatable truth about the Liberals, especially Howard, is thrown up he throws in straw men, look over there at Labor or changes topic back to his small handful of anti-Labor talking points.

    That doesn’t even begin to go into his hypocrisy like when Howard as Treasurer is bought up that’s in the past and we should only look to what’s happening now, then he continuously brings up Hawke/Keating. Apparently the Liberals only existed when Howard won office the first time but Labor has existed since the time Neil could find something historical to can them with.

  109. Neil, I’ve tried to explain this quite a few times before: the so-called “Future Fund” was a trick.”

    So you don’t think that the govt should put money away for PS’s Superannuation like all companies have to?? Just pay it out of general revenue?

    The punters, who were easily fooled with endless repetition of “The Great Lie”: “government finances are no different from any ordinary household”

    I am going to stick with the belief that govt finances are like a households until i am convinced otherwise.

    That is why i laugh when Labor supporters mention our relatively low debt. It quadrupled from 1983-1996 and would have quadrupled again from 1996-2007 if Keating had not been thrown out.

    From what i have seen on this site is that most Labor people do not worry about govt debt. If in power during this alleged global prosperity period, Labor would not have been paying off debt. It does not believe govt debt is a problem. Labor would have spent the money differently.

    By the way i stated that Turnbull’s budget in reply speech was given to parliament. I have to apologise and admit i do not know if this is true. It is dated 2011. So maybe it is just a Turnbull article.

  110. TB/Mo/Pterosaur,

    I did my reserve training at El Alemain as well as working up there with the Pay Corpse. The place left no endearing memories for me. The second time I was there the temp didn’t get below 40.

    It later became the site of the Baxter detention centre. Incidentally, I rented my Port Augusta house top the manager of the centre.

    Cultana was a bit around the corner, further up the Whyalla road.

    BTW, is Whyalla still there? Whyalla isn’t the asshole of the world but you can see it from the nearby hills.

    The place should have been destroyed long ago. Just ask Tony Abbott.

  111. Cu, you’re dear right. This is a blog that promotes the political left. Some people don’t like it that way, which they keep telling us.

    Funny thing, nobody from here goes to other sites to say how they should be doing things.

    Another thing: I’m quite happy for people here to offer criticisms of Abbott and his mob. That’s why we’re here these days..

  112. ” He’s got form alright, Ricky. Very interesting bio in Encyclopedia Dramatica. for our Iain. I wonder if he’s managed to get a job yet. I mean apart from trolling.”

    Hall is a legend in his own mind. He has been sent to Coventry so many times I’ve lost count. Nobody takes his endless prattling serious, I only reply to his asinine comments for sport. For mine, I don’t think even Hall believes half the shite he puts on blogs, because if he did, he would certainly be a candidate for the asylum.

    Hall is a know all with out peer, there is nothing on this planet that Hall does not have an expert opinion on. If you search the net for Hall’s earliest prattle , most of it is, at the level of a seven year old. To his credit, he has obviously improved by an order of magnitude over the years. The only trouble is, now one has to have a dictionary to work out what the half wit is on about. He takes words out of the dictionary that are not in most peoples vocabulary and thinks this makes him look like an intellectual. I am not the first person to pull him up on it…He is good fun and I hope he hangs around for a long time yet.

  113. Neil you have to stick to the belief that the nations budgets are the same asyour household. If you do not, none of your other fallacies work. You need to see the world through the prism of debt and deficits to have reason to hate this government.

    eil, even if one went along with you, there are more parts than debts and deficits that one has to take into consideration.

    Even household budgets involve debt.

    The only question that counts, can one service the debt.

    Most, as we get older, find ways to work towards increasing our income, to allow us to expand into families etc.

    There is nothing about finance that is black and white in any field.

    Neil, I have noticed that interest rates are always higher in this country, than across the globe under governments of all colours.

    Neil, if one cuts the national budget to deep, it then contracts the income stream as well. This does not happen if one cuts the household budget, the income strays the same. Of course if one defers maintenance too long, and leaves the roof leaking, the cost of repairs will be much higher. One does not cut the means of getting to work, to earn the income. There are things in all budgets that are essential, to continue ones lifestyle.

    No, Neil, when it comes to money, there is no black and white. There are always options and choices to be made. It is these choices which need to concern us.

  114. Thanks PJ. I wish he’d stay in Coventry but agreed he is good sport. Now I know his background, I will taunt him severely -)

  115. Catching up @ 12:49 pm

    Iain, nothing sinks in does it. No matter what, you still stick to the same path.

    We all walk our own paths Florence 😉

    We have evolved much further than you are ever likely. I can still imagine when you reach my age, still spruiking the same nonsense. Still behaving in childish manner, not even realising that people are sending you up, for their own amusement.

    You talk about my arrogance and then you say things like this? 😆

    Iain, you do not criticise our ideas. You criticise our beliefs.

    There is no difference between ideas and beliefs Florence, none at all.

    You do not criticise the PM for what she has done. You criticise her for who she is. You criticise because you do not like, do not fit in with your beliefs.

    Wrong I criticise her because she has been profoundly disappointing as PM Catching up @ 1:05 pm

    I think it is more about sending you all up. Pointing out the stupidity of most of the comments posted over recent times. It was also acknowledge(d), or at least expected, you would defend yourselves with more of the same.

    Really? you are kidding yourself!

    Why would we expect anything more, as time has shown, this is all you are capable of. Nothing that comes from your way, ever adds to the debate.

    With out our voices there would be No debate, only the bleating of the sheep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFo6kmMZr3s

    Just deversions to what has been said, which is your intent. See, we can work things out.

    It is the journey and not the destination that is important Florence Ricky (Tory Torcher @ 1:42 pm

    Of course you don’t rate Dr Hewson BEc hons, MA Ec,(syd) MA Ec PHD Ec (JHU), he is the voice of reason and sensibility in a party that holds John Howard (Australia’s worst treasurer) as having economic credentials. He points out that the leader is a populous idiot devoid of any policy vision whatsoever.

    I don’t rate Hewson because he was a terrible leader of the liberal party with absolutely no political street smarts or political nous

    Oh and by the way Tony Abbott does has a law degree.

    But has he ver practiced as a Lawyer? Ricky

    Iian you are just miffed that I post “fact” in response to you inane factless diatribe. I post an article or point out a fact and you comment with baseless, inane, poorly researched opinion which is mostly untrue. You don’t think economics is important because you don’t understand it. You don’t rate one of the most senior liberals in the party because he opposes the lieing populous spin of the neocon right that dominate the fiberals in favour of actual policy.

    I did not say that that economics is unimportant, even though I do think it is rather overrated especially when it is viewed as a master of policy rather than a servant but then I have a rather different view of money to many here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywPpc-TqV5w

    You are completely taking the piss, Don’t think for a millisecond I don’t see RIGHT through that charade of intellectual superiority. Its unbecoming and embarrasses you when you cannot back it up. You have nothing; you state nothing you’re a troll and frankly a terrible debater.

    Get real Ricky, no one meticulously researches their blog comments this is a conversation and not a make or break policy debate, Now go with that idea and you will enjoy it which ever way it goes.

    Get that fucking stupid obstinate grin off your dial, take the all-day sucker out of your mouth, stop singing nah nah nah nah nahhh and do your research to support those embarrassingly imbecilic posts…quote opinion quote opinion….yawn 🙄

    I have seen nothing offered by you or the other Latte sippers that needs any deep and meaningful research to counter. We are all(yes including you) sharing our opinions and while some like to make appeals to various authorities (which may not even be worthy of citation anyway) most people, on both sides, just say what they think. Chris Townley @ 1:55 pm

    When the Police are trying to break an alibi it is consistency that they use to determine the plausibility and truth of the circumstances

    Good point Chris and when applied to the Latte sippers it very often finds them inconsistent and therefore without an alibi 🙂 LOVO @ 2:25 pm

    Iain, I mostly read your one sentence comments…. I mostly *scroll* your lengthy BS… when I do take the time (yawn) to read the longer BS its the same old, same old at which point I go back to scrolling your Inain-ities….. I’d suggest if you want to have more impact… ‘less is more’ ….. i.e. the less you write the more I read.. the more you write= *scroll* … me thinks you will still having nothing worth saying ( though the Norwegian blue comment did make me titter if only ’cause it came from a ‘right’ boob 😆 )

    You see Lovo I love words and I love a clever phrase or allusion which is one reason that I enjoy playing here, it gives me chances to be clever with words and to try to find witty ways to respond to things that I disagree with. As for your “less is more” suggestion well those with closed latte soaked minds are not who I write for.

    Cuppa, ….. I hear ya 😀 …. bein’ doin’ that….. 😆 Cu….. dear lady, you are ‘Legend’, IMO ….. I trust your information and the way you present it,( ..can’t say the same for them Trolls and their misinformation projections or their blatant arrogance and un-truths) , and I do like how you don’t flinch as them Trolls try to smash walls and kick in doors around your considered arguments.

    Belive it or not but I like florence as well Lovo

    Yes this is a Lefty blog,this is CWU …… a university of life, love, laughter and the truth… with music and footy too !!!! ….. and if them trolls don’t like it …GOOD 😀

    This is lefty blog all right but you lefties certainly don’t like having to justify yourselves LOVO @ 2:28 pm

    a wessel is what them bwoat pweoples come here in … 😕 😀

    😆 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC6W8J0j8Co Ricky

    See Iian your famous, no wonder you have disciples of deception in the Neo-conning troll tribe

    The difference between fame and infamy is very small indeed Ricky and entirely dependant upon one’s point of view.

  116. So you don’t think that the govt should put money away for PS’s Superannuation like all companies have to?? Just pay it out of general revenue?

    Absolutely, Neil. That’s what we’ve been doing for the last 50 years and the sky hasn’t fallen in.

    Companies are part of the private sector, so, no different in present context from a household. They are “users” of the currency, not “issuers”. The government has the monopoly on the issuance of the currency. We gave them that right.

    Even Iain said in a recent post he agreed that the government can print its own money.

    So if the government can print its own money what sense does it make to say that the government should “put money away”.

    The government’s spending is constrained only by the physical constraints on the nation’s output or capacity.

    I am going to stick with the belief that govt finances are like a households until i am convinced otherwise.

    Neil, there was a time, 20 years ago, when I would’ve wholeheartedly agreed with you. But it’s time to move on.

  117. CW is incredibly robust at the moment, which is the dynamic you need to make it successful.

    El gordo, is it robust when those of the right just repeat the same old same old?

  118. Miglo @ 4:41 pm

    I did my reserve training at El Alemain as well as working up there with the Pay Corpse. The place left no endearing memories for me. The second time I was there the temp didn’t get below 40.

    Pardon me migs but I can’t help thinking that this must have been a bit of a dead end posting 😉

    Cu, you’re dear right. This is a blog that promotes the political left. Some people don’t like it that way, which they keep telling us.

    Oh I for one like the Cafe just as it is Migs 👿

    Funny thing, nobody from here goes to other sites to say how they should be doing things.

    They do Migs you just don’t see it.

    P.J. @ 4:47 pm

    Hall is a legend in his own mind. He has been sent to Coventry so many times I’ve lost count. Nobody takes his endless prattling serious, I only reply to his asinine comments for sport. For mine, I don’t think even Hall believes half the shite he puts on blogs, because if he did, he would certainly be a candidate for the asylum.

    Well by the orwellameter of madness ( that madness is being a minority of one) the endorsemenst that I get from other conservatives here says taht i am entirely sane 😉

    Hall is a know all with out peer, there is nothing on this planet that Hall does not have an expert opinion on.

    No, I have an opinion on most things but and expert opinion on a narrower range of topicsand the humiolity to acknowlege the difference.

    If you search the net for Hall’s earliest prattle , most of it is, at the level of a seven year old. To his credit, he has obviously improved by an order of magnitude over the years.

    Well practice does make one closer to perfection PJ 😉

    The only trouble is, now one has to have a dictionary to work out what the half wit is on about. He takes words out of the dictionary that are not in most peoples vocabulary and thinks this makes him look like an intellectual.

    As I pointed out to LOVO in my previous comment I do love words and the way taht tehy sound so I take any opportunity to use teh cute ones taht I have found over the years. If that sends you scurrying for your dictionary then you should be thankful to me for your onging discoveries of the more obscure aspects of teh English Language.

    I am not the first person to pull him up on it…He is good fun and I hope he hangs around for a long time yet.

    I’m not going anywhere PJ

    Mark @ 5:17 pm

    Thanks PJ. I wish he’d stay in Coventry but agreed he is good sport. Now I know his background, I will taunt him severely -)

    I am can be “a good sport” if treated fairly Mark something that you should consider if you want to take me on

  119. From what i have seen on this site is that most Labor people do not worry about govt debt. If in power during this alleged global prosperity period, Labor would not have been paying off debt.

    If most Labor people weren’t worried about govt debt Neil I’d say that would be a good thing. But I don’t think we’re there yet.

    If they ever had real cause to worry about debt however it would probably be on the grounds of equity as most govt debt is scooped up in one form or another by the finance industry. The reliable stream of dividends is highly valued by superfunds etc.

    Bill Mitchell often refers to CGS issuance as corporate welfare for that reason.

  120. ‘is it robust when those of the right just repeat the same old same old?’

    The left do the same.

    Ideally, the blogmaster should set the tone… dispassionate and objective, forward thinking and realistic.

  121. Following on from Mobius Ecko comment @ 9.59

    It would be interesting to know the numbers on how may tweeters Joe Hockey blocked BEFORE and AFTER his infamous tweet that the PM was “gutless” because she took Xmas leave. Yes the leave to be with her widowed mum.

    Yes Joe did you realise tweeters are voters? Joe, just how many tweeters thought your comment was just plain nasty?

  122. Ideally, the blogmaster should set the tone… dispassionate and objective, forward thinking and realistic.

    Ideally, some of the denialati should also set the tone . . . dispassionate and objective, forward thinking and realistic.

  123. Florence
    I know that you don’t agree with what I say about Gillard and I am unconcerned.

    Sue
    according to the current wisdom most twits don’t vote for the coalalition anyway so those who may have thought that Hockey was being “nasty” won’t be changing their vote anyway .

  124. Iain, not as unconcerned as most are here. Not sure I would be happy just to be tolerated. Believe I would go elsewhere, where I found more in tune with my beliefs.

    Maybe you have nowhere else that welcomes or put up with your attitude.
    ,

  125. Ideally, the blogmaster should set the tone… dispassionate and objective, forward thinking and realistic.

    Ahhh, here you are, egg, perhaps you should make the same comment at TDT … that would go down well … LOL!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    cuppa, thanks for that – I realised I’d posted the “conservative” version – too late of course!

    Can’t help thinking the “original” had its birth in the UK (three main parties Conservatives, Liberals and Labour) … no Conservative Party in the US of A …

    … still they all say it simply for me … they are not devious for Tony Abbott & the Thumsukkers and assorted Acolytes …;-)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I see young, Neil, is still peddling the Young Liberal message … what a waste of his school holidays … I blame his parents … with Year 12 looming he should be enjoying himself more …

    BTW, Neil, we have had a fabulous crop of “Ebony” tomatoes … grown in a “tube” of 200mm x 200mm x 3mm mesh … against an east facing wall … you should have a go with them … plant with marigolds as a partner plant (for insect and soil protection) and be wary of nematodes in the soil …

  126. No Florence I just think that we have been chewing the fat for long enough that both of us should be on first name terms and as you had told us your name anyway I don’t think it should be a problem. and Putting you down is not something that I would ever want to do anyway.

  127. ” mm” Iain…. ” and Putting you down is not something that I would ever want to do anyway” mm, can’t put my finger on at the mo… will have to do a tour of the cellar…. and God and/or Bacchus knows how long that could take… 👿

  128. I must say the days of “catching up” are well behind you CU (remembering how you originally decided on the name)

    Perhaps you could now consider lending it to others who sadly will never “get there”.

    From hereon understand that I will be using it in an ironic sense.

  129. Yes Joe did you realise tweeters are voters? Joe, just how many tweeters thought your comment was just plain nasty?

    Not only that Joe being the normal nasty small minded Liberal they have become under Howard and extended under Abbott automatically accused those who politely criticised him for being nasty to Gillard at Christmas of being Labor trolls.

    As one pointed out they had never supported Labor in their life and were only pointing out some unfair Hockey had said. Hockey’s repsonse, as seems the want of the right nowadays, was to abuse and shut them out.

  130. MJ, thanks. Yes, I did pick that name a with a little tongue in cheek. It seems so long ago.

    What was wonderful to find out, one can grow at any age, if one keeps a open mind.

    Give them all time, and reality will catch up with them. One cannot keep their heads in the sand forever
    The other I have had bought home to me, if

    does not use their mind, they will lose it.

    Thanks for putting up with me. It It has given me a new lease on life, I no longer feel old.

  131. Catching up @ 8:40 pm

    Iain, I see no reason we should be on first name terms. I reserve this for people I respect. That does not apply in your case.

    Do you realise the irony of this comment Florence?
    if you wanted formality then surely you would address me in a more formal manner yourself.

  132. ‘perhaps you should make the same comment at TDT’

    TDT is a satirical blog so being dispassionate, objective, forward thinking and realistic isn’t applicable.

    Besides…reb’s given me the impression he’s not interested in the 5th Estate, beyond just having fun.

  133. Are you saying I should use Mr.

    As usual I cannot follow your twisted reasoning. you use to fit your arguments.

    You call yourself Iain. I call myself Catching up.

    Is not the norm to refer to people by what they all themselves. It is not about formality as I see. It is about you once again wanting to set the rules of the site.

    Not that it is important.

    The question was. was why do you use my Christian name.

    As usual you have not referred to the question asked but gone off on your own tangent.

  134. Catching up @ 7:26 am

    Are you saying I should use Mr.

    As usual I cannot follow your twisted reasoning. you use to fit your arguments.

    You call yourself Iain. I call myself Catching up.

    If you look at the top of this comment you will see that I call myself by my full name: “Iain Hall” and you chose to address me by my Christian name, I’m Ok with that to be honest and because you choose to address me on a first name basis I am simply striving for equality by addressing you by your first name as well.

    Is not the norm to refer to people by what they all themselves. It is not about formality as I see. It is about you once again wanting to set the rules of the site.

    Sometimes individuals who are older like to claim deference from younger people by addressing them by their first name while requiring a more formal type of address in return, well that strikes me as being profoundly anti-egalitarian so I am saving you from the evils of elitism by treating you as a social equal rather than showing you undue deference. 😉

    The question was. was why do you use my Christian name.

    As usual you have not referred to the question asked but gone off on your own tangent.

    I have answered that question before and now I have answered it again, in more detail.

  135. It will be Iain Hall from now on. That is if you manage to write something that is worthy of reply.

    I do note that most others here raised no objection to having what they call themselves shortened. Nothing to do with formality, just easier. Many use CU for me.

    I use ME, Migs and MJ among many.

    No, Iain you are just twisting things to suit what you see as an argument. I see as someone who thinks they are sooooooooo smart. Kids behaviour, at the very most.

  136. Florence

    It will be Iain Hall from now on. That is if you manage to write something that is worthy of reply.

    I do note that most others here raised no objection to having what they call themselves shortened. Nothing to do with formality, just easier. Many use CU for me.

    I use ME, Migs and MJ among many.

    No, Iain you are just twisting things to suit what you see as an argument. I see as someone who thinks they are sooooooooo smart. Kids behaviour, at the very most.

    Do you notice the inconsistency in your last comment?
    Its most amusing 😆
    Don’t forget that I play this blogging game to win 😉

  137. “Do you notice the inconsistency in your last comment?”

    She won’t admit it even if she did notice! Inconsistencies abound at the cafe of no consequence which is precisely why I enjoy the odd sortie here!

  138. “Miglo, you can set the tone by barring those who set out to lower or destroy the site. I suspect they get little or no look in at most other sites.”

    Now that’s insular at best and patronising at worst. Clearly CU would prefer it if only the group thinkers were able to post here. Wouldn’t that be cosy! You could all dozen or so of you slag off on Abbott or whoever is your target de jour with impunity and misplaced belief in a new world in the morning…

  139. Treeman, you are using yet again the form of argument not accepted in a junior high school debate that is “a rash assumption”.

  140. Tree, at least we have something in common, pigheadedness.

    Why should I admit myself wrong, when you mob never do.

    Iain, pray tell me, what is there in this to win.

    I asked a question of why you choose to use my Christian name, and you see a battle in that.

    Tree, I have been very consistent. I keep telling Iain Hall, I do not like his attitude or do or have much respect for him. This is my right. I do not have to like all, or anyone for that matter. Where is the inconsistencies.

    I thought you mob believe we are too consistence in our beliefs.

    We are consistent when we say Abbott will be an disaster. We are consistent when we say the PM is doing well. We are consistent when we say our economy is among the best in the world.

    We are being consistent when we tell you people that we believe you are terribly wrong.

    What we do not have, is the ability of you people to read into every comment, your own meaning. Yes, we do not see what you do. I suspect because what you see, is simply just not their. This conversation that I and Iain Hall have been having, and which you have butted into proves you all have little substance. All bags of hot air, that likes to hear your own voices.

    What is more inane, than I play to win. Win what, the title of the biggest clown of the year.

    Believe, patronizing I am indeed being. Why not?

    How many other sites do you manage to invade without being given quick shift. None, I would say.

    In fact we here like to have hooks to hang our arguments on, and you mob do very well.

    We are very capable of handling any trolls that visit, to our satisfaction. Iain Hall what was the last win that you have had. Cannot recall any. In fact any from any visitors.

  141. Tree, it is a left-wing site. We talk about things that one would find on such a site. It I sought different views, I would go to a right-wing site, where I would expect to see the PM slagged off, your word not mine.

    Please tell me what is wrong with sticking up for the PM, whom I believe in.

    Tree, why would one expect to find anything different on a left-wing site.

    If you were not so up yourselves, you would noticed we disagree on many things, but most would be beyond your comprehension.

    Slagging is all you are capable off.

  142. Tree, you do not believe we are entering a new world order, one were we can be in a wonderful place. One made for this country.

    I do know, it depends on the politicians of this time, whether we are to be a part, or left sitting on the side lines. It will take work and imagination to obtain, it will not be handed to us on platter.

    The answers will not be found in the past. We need those who have the ability to look ahead.

    We need leaders that can cope with many matters at once, not one that cannot sit on a plane for hours, and not have the time to read an important judgement.

    One who can find time to read, while doing important things for Australians.Maybe visiting old Oxford mates is important for Australia, but we have not been told why.

    Yes, we need all the things that this PM intends to put in place. Education for all and a well trained workforce.

    Yes, we need to build the infrastructure for a new age, which is fast emerging.

    A new age in both technology and in a shift in world power.

    This change in world began in the latter half of last century when Communist Russia fell and continuing to this day.

    Yes, I do wake up to a new day. I do not need to look back to yesteryear. Waste of time, as we cannot change that.

    It is what we do today, that is important.

    Anymore complaints about me Tree. Much rather be me, than you.

    Migs, please keep up the work.

  143. Catching up @ 9:01 am

    Iain, pray tell me, what is there in this to win.

    Everything and nothing Florence

    I asked a question of why you choose to use my Christian name, and you see a battle in that.

    ‘Tis all grist for the mill, material to discuss and argue about

    What we do not have, is the ability of you people to read into every comment, your own meaning. Yes, we do not see what you do. I suspect because what you see, is simply just not their. This conversation that I and Iain Hall have been having, and which you have butted into proves you all have little substance. All bags of hot air, that likes to hear your own voices.

    Florence you are one of the most vociferous commentators here and I actually like that but sadly you are not always entirely lucid as the confused sentence above shows

    What is more inane, than I play to win. Win what, the title of the biggest clown of the year.

    Believe, patronizing I am indeed being. Why not?

    Is that A Yoda moment perhaps?

    How many other sites do you manage to invade without being given quick shift. None, I would say.

    In fact we here like to have hooks to hang our arguments on, and you mob do very well.

    We are very capable of handling any trolls that visit, to our satisfaction. Iain Hall what was the last win that you have had. Cannot recall any. In fact any from any visitors.

    Well that sounds like confirmation bias to me Florence, because I think that I do alright.

    Min @ 9:06 am

    I should add, it is certainly not to do with dissenting opinions but the form that these take.

    With respect Min those on “your: side are often far worse than conservatives in terms of the way that they use ad hom arguments and personal attacks. But this site mostly does very well in keeping it fairly “nice” and civil.

    Catching up @ 9:07 am

    Tree, it is a left-wing site. We talk about things that one would find on such a site. It I sought different views, I would go to a right-wing site, where I would expect to see the PM slagged off, your word not mine.

    One of the reasons that this site is so lively is the fact that it has a variety of opinion and robust argument the places that stamp out dissent are BORING and die a slow death.

    Please tell me what is wrong with sticking up for the PM, whom I believe in.

    There is nothing wrong with “sticking up for the PM,” just as there is nothing wrong with sticking up for the Tony Abbott but when you back a player in politics don’t expect that you won’t have to defend your position.

  144. Very lucid to me Iain Hall. I am sure others know what I mean. Which is ore that I can say for many of your statements. Maybe that is another thing I share with you, along with pigheadedness.

    Wonder when the real abuse is going to begin.

    It is a shame I cannot keep this going, as today.. I have better things to do with my time,

  145. Iain, I have never seen you defend your position. This is what this topic points out, and the fact that none of you rose to the challenged in the previous one.

    Yes, we defend out position everyday.

  146. Neil of Sydney
    December 26, 2012 @ 4:20 pm
    I am going to stick with the belief that govt finances are like a households until i am convinced otherwise.

    Yeah most household budget’s are around 6.4 trillion dollars. “your such a simpleman simpleton 🙄

    I have to apologise and admit i do not know if this is true. It is dated 2011. So maybe it is just a Turnbull article.

    You think?

    Mangrove Jack
    December 26, 2012 @ 5:49 pm
    Neil, there was a time, 20 years ago, when I would’ve wholeheartedly agreed with you. But it’s time to move on.

    Gday Jack all the best. 🙂 Nil lives in a delusional past where everything was much simpler, including himself.

    Miglo
    December 26, 2012 @ 4:44 pm
    Cu, you’re dear right. This is a blog that promotes the political left. Some people don’t like it that way, which they keep telling us. Another thing: I’m quite happy for people here to offer criticisms of Abbott and his mob. That’s why we’re here these days..

    A point lost on the Zombies who try to “convert” our thinking with insults, rhetoric, propaganda and pitifully researched parroting rather than debate. The level of intellectual retort is quite underwhelming. Iian’s brave crack (to his credit) at his best six was a self-stumping as the other trolls won’t touch it with a barge poll. A telling castigation of Abbotts virtues and their lack of respect for the idiot neocon messiah.

    Iain Hall
    December 26, 2012 @ 5:48 pm
    There is no difference between ideas and beliefs Florence, none at all

    Iian you have obviously not studied philosophy.
    Here is even the most rudimentary Wiki explanation. Go away and think about it in that shed of yours.

    Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true

    An idea is a concept or mental impression.

    AS in….. I have an idea. I believe this idea works. An idea has no bearing in truth. Maybe that’s why you never support your opinion with truth, you believe every idea “your side” feeds you.

    Get real Ricky, no one meticulously researches their blog comments this is a conversation and not a make or break policy debate, Now go with that idea and you will enjoy it which ever way it goes

    I see the word Debate thrown around a lot in here. So like Jones and Bolt your, hero’s of free speech your conveniently an entertainer when it comes to fact. You now decide that “our LEFT wing blog” is light entertainment so there is no account for research or factual accuracy? You should book into fact school with Gloria, just don’t drop your pencil.

    Ok here is my response: FUCK OFF YOU ANTAGONISTIC, NEOCONNING, ATTENTION WHOREING PROPAGANER PARROT TROLL
    .
    Was anyone entertained by that comment?
    Iian your lazy lack of understanding underpinned by a self-righteous use of the dictionary, window dress’s profound ignorance that holds no water with me. People with the most opinions (statistically you’re the hands down winner in here) generally are the most feeble of substance. I maintain you are a piss taker.

    When the Police are trying to break an alibi it is consistency that they use to determine the plausibility and truth of the circumstances
    Good point Chris and when applied to the Latte sippers it very often finds them inconsistent and therefore without an alibi….. The difference between fame and infamy is very small indeed Ricky and entirely dependant upon one’s point of view.

    I see the moron magnet is working. Oh yes Chris great point bravo, now you have “master trolls approval 🙄 Please feel free to look up sarcasm in the dictionary.

    But has he ever practiced as a Lawyer? Ricky

    He has an economics degree too and is economically illiterate. I guess he spent most of his time in the Boxing Ring Seminary getting punched around the ring instead of listening to all those evil Marxists, polluting the educated minds of societies elite.

    Miglo
    December 26, 2012 @ 5:52 pm
    CW is incredibly robust at the moment, which is the dynamic you need to make it successful.
    El gordo, is it robust when those of the right just repeat the same old same old

    What we heard from the heard indeed.

    OFF his Treeman
    December 27, 2012 @ 8:26 am
    “Miglo, you can set the tone by barring those who set out to lower or destroy the site. I suspect they get little or no look in at most other sites.”
    Now that’s insular at best and patronising at worst. Clearly CU would prefer it if only the group thinkers were able to post here. Wouldn’t that be cosy! You could all dozen or so of you slag off on Abbott or whoever is your target de jour with impunity and misplaced belief in a new world in the morning…

    The trouble with this fact challenged imbecile is he uses the word debate instead of argument, he is very very confused little troll. Lets calculate the instances when he has actually added to debate…….
    ”computer like Abbott says NO!!!”

    “is your target de jour with impunity and misplaced belief in a new world in the morning”

    In the absence of a grain of factual cohesion upon which to construct a plausible line of constructive debate, he attempt’s linguistic condescension.

    “Those who deconstruct that of which they do not understand or accept contrary to self-belief from a sense of superior wisdom, folly the destruction of wisdom itself”

  147. Cuppa
    December 27, 2012 @ 10:19 am
    Still nothing from the RWFs as to why Abbott deserves the job. Ho-hum.

    I’m still waiting despite “deck the Halls” self stumping

    silkworm
    December 27, 2012 @ 10:49 am
    Hall doesn’t like to be called Hall, so we should all call Hall Hall.

    Deck the halls with factless folly blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah Blah.

    VOYAGER – S y d n e y
    December 27, 2012 @ 11:18 am
    Easy to see there has been some interbreading with CWs over Xmas break!
    Hope things improve in 2013 for CWs.

    They would most certainly improve greatly if you just fucked off, you illiterate troll .

  148. “In the absence of a grain of factual cohesion upon which to construct a plausible line of constructive debate, he attempt’s linguistic condescension”

    Thanks for the compliment once again but you’re quite wrong to patronise me, I just love the song which exposes you dreamers for what you really are!

  149. Treeman
    December 27, 2012 @ 11:57 am
    Thanks for the compliment once again but you’re quite wrong to patronise me, I just love the song which exposes you dreamers for what you really are!

    Your such a simple little troll, no fact, no idea… Only a truly moronic imbecile would derive a compliment from such language. You sing out of key, flat and out of time.
    Your hide is as thick as your logic.

  150. ‘Tree, it is a left-wing site. We talk about things that one would find on such a site.’

    Why not aim a little higher?

    For example, TDT regularly laughs at joolya and the monk, which is far better than slavishly praising the PM and vilifying the future PM.

  151. Ok Guys I have been reading the book I got for Christmas from my beloved wife (Stephen king’s latest, Double+good so far!) anyway I won’t have it said that that I am ignoring you all 🙂

    Catching up @ 9:54 am

    Very lucid to me Iain Hall. I am sure others know what I mean. Which is ore that I can say for many of your statements. Maybe that is another thing I share with you, along with pigheadedness.

    I prefer the word tenacious Florence and I salute you for yours, its one of the things I like about you 🙂

    Iain, I have never seen you defend your position. This is what this topic points out, and the fact that none of you rose to the challenged in the previous one.

    I constantly defend my position most expansively.

    Ricky @ 11:28 am

    A point lost on the Zombies who try to “convert” our thinking with insults, rhetoric, propaganda and pitifully researched parroting rather than debate. The level of intellectual retort is quite underwhelming. Iian’s brave crack (to his credit) at his best six was a self-stumping as the other trolls won’t touch it with a barge poll. A telling castigation of Abbotts virtues and their lack of respect for the idiot neocon messiah.

    Most of the conservatives here, myself included know that you Latte sippers will never give up the false political gods that you all worship but it is fun trying to show you the light of truth

    Iain you have obviously not studied philosophy.
    Here is even the most rudimentary Wiki explanation. Go away and think about it in that shed of yours.

    Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true

    An idea is a concept or mental impression.

    In essence there is no difference between the two unless you are a total slave to semantics

    AS in….. I have an idea. I believe this idea works. An idea has no bearing in truth. Maybe that’s why you never support your opinion with truth, you believe every idea “your side” feeds you.

    No Ricky you think that only left-wing thought can contain truth which is sadly not true at all.

    Get real Ricky, no one meticulously researches their blog comments this is a conversation and not a make or break policy debate, Now go with that idea and you will enjoy it which ever way it goes

    I see the word Debate thrown around a lot in here. So like Jones and Bolt your, hero’s of free speech you’re conveniently an entertainer when it comes to fact. You now decide that “our LEFT wing blog” is light entertainment so there is no account for research or factual accuracy? You should book into fact school with Gloria, just don’t drop your pencil.

    We are all political dilettantes when it comes to blog comments Ricky and all blogs, even my own, exits for the amusement of those who play there to think otherwise is to display a profound hubris for which the gods will surely smite you.

    Ok here is my response: FUCK OFF YOU ANTAGONISTIC, NEOCONNING, ATTENTION WHOREING PROPAGANER PARROT TROLL

    My late mother used to say that the first person to raise their voice in an argument loses….
    .

    Was anyone entertained by that comment?

    Iain your lazy lack of understanding underpinned by a self-righteous use of the dictionary, window dress’s profound ignorance that holds no water with me. People with the most opinions (statistically you’re the hands down winner in here) generally are the most feeble of substance. I maintain you are a piss taker.

    I understand you all to well Ricky, but I will concede that I do enjoy taking the piss out of the self-righteous lefties that I come across, especially when they are such slaves to their emotions like you so clearly are.

    But has he ever practised as a Lawyer? Ricky

    He has an economics degree too and is economically illiterate. I guess he spent most of his time in the Boxing Ring Seminary getting punched around the ring instead of listening to all those evil Marxists, polluting the educated minds of societies elite.

    It was a genuine question because I have never seen any claims that he practised law, which would be required for him to have been a Lawyer

  152. Off his Treeman
    December 27, 2012 @ 12:26 pm
    Thanks again, rather a thick hide than a thick head or small torch!

    You have nothing but antagonistic rhetorical hero worship. Tell you what genius, give me a fact and I’ll throw you a cracker, until then just keep embarrassing yourself by posting such inane, imbecilic rants, its entertaining to real thinkers.

    scaper…
    December 27, 2012 @ 12:35 pm
    The fiddler has not a small torch but is a soft cock. He’s got cough breath too…very elastic for a spastic!

    Congratulation’s, take a prize off the top shelf troll 🙄 You stupidity qualifies you as a true disciple of Phony Tony’s army of antagonistic ass wipes.

    el gordo
    December 27, 2012 @ 12:49 pm
    ‘Tree, it is a left-wing site. We talk about things that one would find on such a site.’
    Why not aim a little higher?

    Just toke a little harder then Gordo.

    Iain Hall
    December 27, 2012 @ 4:30 pm
    Ok Guys I have been reading the book I got for Christmas from my beloved wife (Stephen king’s latest, Double+good so far!) anyway I won’t have it said that that I am ignoring you all

    Ok A+ for taste, been to his hometown Bangor Maine. Drive into town; Truck stop from maximum overdrive, Paul Bunyan statue in the local Park and the dead lights just outa town. We met him while we were there (he just happened to be doing a seminar reading for literacy extreme luck 🙂 and got an autograph. I had a great conversation with Stephen about ACDC and Bon Scott (he is a huge fan) but never got to see the original line up.

    it is fun trying to show you the light of truth

    You have or are never likely to provide me with truth Iian. It’s just not in your DNA. Nobody; or any of your troll army supply me with facts, so truth is a bar that you are designed to conga under with low brow political shots, rather than aspire to reach.

    My late mother used to say that the first person to raise their voice in an argument loses….

    Obviously my point has slipped through to the keeper on your less than attuned perception. Big swing with no hit .

    I understand you all to well Ricky

    Oh Iian your ignorance is astounding. You know me? Were you at the gig last night? Were you singing along?

    It was a genuine question because I have never seen any claims that he practised law, which would be required for him to have been a Lawyer

    Law degree, never passed the bar.
    Economics degree, never practiced economics (economic illiterate)
    Journalist, failed and panned.
    Writer, total hack,
    Priest, kicked out of the seminary and failed
    Rhodes Scholar, run a cement factory.
    Health minister, a total incompetent disaster.
    This is your hero here Iian, your shining light of all things just and righteous in neocon philosophy.
    Cmon, gimme six, convince me. He is a factional, populous, lieing bully boy. The Fiberals are sadly a talent vacuum.

  153. ” but I will concede that I do enjoy taking the piss out of the self-righteous lefties that I come across, especially when they are such slaves to their emotions like you so clearly are.”

    You will have to let us in on your secret. Have not seen any evidence of you taking the piss out of anyone, including this old woman. Sorry, you are just not up to the task of doing so.

    Most of the wonderful arguments you have here, are mostly with yourself, with many on the site, sending you up, from the sidelines. You are so wrapped up in your own self worth, you do not see this. Same goes for the rest of your mob.
    .

  154. It’s been almost 200 comments now… and the wingnuts still haven’t said why Abbott deserves the job.

    OK, the message is clear, he DOESN’T deserve it.

  155. ‘…the wingnuts still haven’t said why Abbott deserves the job.’

    It just so happens he’s in the right place at the right time. Joolya doesn’t deserve to stay in the seat because of her lying and deceit.

  156. Ricky

    Iain Hall
    December 27, 2012 @ 4:30 pm
    Ok Guys I have been reading the book I got for Christmas from my beloved wife (Stephen king’s latest, Double+good so far!) anyway I won’t have it said that that I am ignoring you all

    Ok A+ for taste, been to his hometown Bangor Maine. Drive into town; Truck stop from maximum overdrive, Paul Bunyan statue in the local Park and the dead lights just outa town. We met him while we were there (he just happened to be doing a seminar reading for literacy extreme luck 🙂 and got an autograph. I had a great conversation with Stephen about ACDC and Bon Scott (he is a huge fan) but never got to see the original line up.

    Well I have been a fan of his writing for more than twenty years and I am actually green with envy :green: that you have met him. The latest one which is about time travel is right up there with Jack Finney’s “Time and Again” which I had previously rated as the best time travel story of all time.

    it is fun trying to show you the light of truth

    You have or are never likely to provide me with truth Iain. It’s just not in your DNA. Nobody; or any of your troll army supply me with facts, so truth is a bar that you are designed to conga under with low brow political shots, rather than aspire to reach.

    I know that you are a tough nut to crack Ricky, but then most utterly convinced latte sippers are the same insofar as they just don’t want to be convinced that they could be wrong so they perform all sorts of mental gymnasticss to avoid acknowledging any flaws in their argument. I do like a challenge though 😉

    My late mother used to say that the first person to raise their voice in an argument loses….

    Obviously my point has slipped through to the keeper on your less than attuned perception. Big swing with no hit .

    Your point was lost because your lost your temper and slipped into Caps lock mode

    I understand you all to well Ricky

    Oh Iain your ignorance is astounding. You know me? Were you at the gig last night? Were you singing along?

    I said I understand you Ricky, not that I know you do you get the distinction? We have been arguing the toss for a while now and I know that you can’t comprehend the notion that thinking differently to your own good self can be either right or even OK.

    It was a genuine question because I have never seen any claims that he practised law, which would be required for him to have been a Lawyer

    Law degree, never passed the bar.

    Well that is not a negative in my book

    Economics degree, never practised economics (economic illiterate)

    To get a degree in a subject must at least prove literacy in that discipline.

    Journalist, failed and panned.

    Wrong, found politics as a player more interesting I would say 😉

    Writer, total hack,

    His writing is fine

    Priest, kicked out of the seminary and failed

    Failed? no decided that it was not his calling more likely

    Rhodes Scholar, run a cement factory.

    Anyone who can win such a prestigious scholarship can not be so easily dismissed.

    Health minister, a total incompetent disaster.

    He was a very competent administrator of that portfolio actaully

    This is your hero here Iain, your shining light of all things just and righteous in neocon philosophy.
    Cmon, gimme six, convince me. He is a factional, populous, lying bully boy. The Fiberals are sadly a talent vacuum.

    Convincing you is an impossibly high bar to clear Ricky because NOTHING short of proving that Abbott was the reincarnation of Jesus would convince you that he is either a good man or that he would be a good PM. As it happens I don’t “hero worship” any politician but when the alternative is Gillard and Labor its an easy choice to go for Abbott and the liberals.

    Catching up @ 8:01 pm


    ” but I will concede that I do enjoy taking the piss out of the self-righteous lefties that I come across, especially when they are such slaves to their emotions like you so clearly are.”

    You will have to let us in on your secret. Have not seen any evidence of you taking the piss out of anyone, including this old woman. Sorry, you are just not up to the task of doing so.

    Florence, in popular parlance to “take the piss” is to mock or make fun of someone or something and even you have been a target of that from me.

    Most of the wonderful arguments you have here, are mostly with yourself, with many on the site, sending you up, from the sidelines. You are so wrapped up in your own self worth, you do not see this. Same goes for the rest of your mob.

    You keep believing that if it gives you comfort, but even it that is the case then it just proves that I am good humoured enough to enjoy the banter and the game of it more than you are.

  157. Why don’t you ban these pathetic RWs? They take up an inordinate amount of space with absolute rubbish. I suspect it’s a form of sabotage, so why don’t you get rid of them? I only visit this site to read the comments but if I were a regular contributor I would ignore them and not waste my time engaging with them.

  158. Stratton, you are right, and I have made the point many times that all that they add is length to the page, but I suppose that they do make a wonderful case for not voting LNP.

    I think the right whingers are tolerated for that reason. 😆

    Cheers 😀

  159. That’s what scroll wheels are for Stratton.

    It’s OK to have them here. It strokes their vainglorious minds to post the idiocy they do, and in their sheer arrogance they honestly believe in their superiority, so it gives the rest of us a look at the sad wingnut mindset. We need to be reminded every now and again why we are not like them and never want to be. Their constant duplicity and projection illustrates everything that is currently wrong with the rabid right and how low they have gone. It gives us a reason to fight harder to ensure Abbott is revealed at every opportunity and his supporters give us plenty of ammunition in that enterprise.

    el gordo on the other hand is here for the comedy relief. Hang on, so are the right wingers.

  160. “Why don’t you ban these pathetic RWs”

    It’s a dilemma Stratton. But when Iain, scaper, and Neil blunder into my briar patch I quite enjoy making a meal of them. They are completely oblivious to the fact I am chewing their leg off, but most of the Left readership here is quite literate in heterodox economics (of the MMT variety) and therefore seem to enjoy it too.

    They also bring Ricky into full bloom and that’s been a lot of fun to watch.

    But I sense the end is nigh. Endless repetition can get boring. If the Firefox Finder doesn’t spot “debt bad” or “surplus good” then it’s onto the scroll wheel, and we move on.

    BTW, has anybody commented yet on Turnbull’s quite remarkable speech at Woodford yesterday ? Hardly a shot across the bows, it was a full broadside amidships into HMS Abbott.

  161. MJ, yes what a speech, it was almost like he was putting a photo of Abbott up and throwing darts at it.

    When the crowd cheered, you wonder wether he realised that the majority were not cheering him but rather the own goals that he was kicking.

    You wonder wether Abbott would be livid, or is that dense that he thought Turdball was talking about the ALP.

    Cheers 😆 😆

  162. Mangrove Jack,

    BTW, has anybody commented yet on Turnbull’s quite remarkable speech at Woodford yesterday ? Hardly a shot across the bows, it was a full broadside amidships into HMS Abbott.

    I read a bit about it on Twitter. Apparently he criticised the use of lies and cheap sloganeering. Projected the behaviour onto Labor to make out as though it’s them who do it. When, as everyone knows, it’s the stock-standard practice of his own lot.

    Right-Wing Projection: You can set your watch by it.

    I doubt he’ll lead the “Liberals” again. Too many of them hate his guts. You should see some of the poison the wingnuts spit his way. And if they did in desperation turn to Turdball the rabble would become so divided it would be a joy to watch!

  163. The Opposition is leading in the polls and this time next year (at the very latest) Abbott will be PM.

    If the government goes in March, to limit the damage, they may recover in a cycle.

    But if joolya runs the full term, against the best interests of the party, then history won’t be kind to our first female PM.

  164. el dildo….. Oh delusion you are a heartless bitch! 😉

    and you’ve got another ten months of it before a miserable Christmas wondering where the LNP got it sooooooo wrong.

    If you’d just listened to the voices of reason here, you could have saved yourself all that delusion, and a miserable next Christmas… still you can lead a dildo to water…

    sad 😦

  165. ” But if joolya runs the full term, against the best interests of the party, then history won’t be kind to our first female PM.”

    This from a person who thinks because it’s snowing at the North Pole, global warming must be bunkum.

    Gillard is going to be reelected el dildo, end of transmission.

  166. Just listened to the full Turnbull speech.

    TS, I think even the dim-witted Abbott would have understood very well what was going on, but it was probably more an appeal to his own party than an outright attack on Abbott.

    The references to the Romney wipe-out were a thinly disguised warning to the more extreme elements of his own party.

    It was a very impressive, off-the-cuff, speech and the (probably) pro-Labor audience enjoyed it.

  167. Most of my leftist friends would vote Liberal if Turnbull led, even a bloke who works in the mines operating machinery. he’s always voted Labor, a staunch unionist but is disgusted with Gillard and the AWU/HSU scandals. There is a rout awaiting Gillard and it comes from several fronts.

  168. Migs if that gives you comfort then you keep beliving that, but the wiser (conservative) heads here know that the likes of Stratton are just scared to admit taht the Latte sippers “time in the sun” under the Gillard regime is winding down and Labor’s long sojourn in the wilderness will soon begin

  169. Most of.my leftists freinds….. Would vote liberal for a merchant banker. Off your treeman, you are most certainty the most stupid troll I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. You redefine political pygmy..why don’t you just Fuck off, such blatant bullshit is, like you a tiresome bore.

  170. For the record, I’m an unreconstructed leftie from way-back and had never voted Liberal in my life – until the last election where I put my “1” next to Malcolm Turnbull. Sorry if that offends anyone. I’m going to do it again in 2013. And superficial attacks about him being a merchant banker or rich or that he went to a private school or lives in Point Piper or belongs to the wrong party or fade into insignificance against the fact that he has vision, compassion and a thoughtful approach to issues – all of which are vital to our future yet are sorely lacking on both sides of politics.

    Cheers

  171. I don’t mind Turnbull either, but he is too far to the left to win the support of the Liberal power brokers. They don’t want a moderate.

  172. The electorate is in a state of flux, with Andrew and me voting for the conservatives after all those years of left thinking.

  173. Andrew, likewise my preference for leader of the Libs is Turnbull, this is in spite of him going down somewhat in my esteem for his failure to cross the floor on the issue of marriage equality and his opportunism in the Godwin Grech affair. However, the likelihood of this happening is well..unknown, as so few Liberals have come forward to provide any dissenting opinions against Tony Abbott. Therefore on the surface of it, the answer is No due to Turnbull’s belief in marriage equality, a Republic and climate change.

  174. El gordo, there will be no “flux” if Abbott remains LOTO because you will be voting for a Prime Minister who believes that there is no conflict between conservative Catholicism and government, that one should reflect the other..see his views on marriage equality, the status of women, abortion, divorce and birth control.

  175. @Andrew Thompson re Turnbull

    he has vision, compassion and a thoughtful approach to issues

    as evidenced by “Utegate”, perhaps? or his donation of taxpayers $$ to a mate with a “rain making scam” while in government ?

    On 19 June 2009 Treasury official Godwin Grech alleged that a car dealer with links to the Labor Party had received preferential treatment under the Ozcar program, sparking the so-called ‘OzCar affair’. That day Turnbull stated that Prime Minister Rudd and Treasurer Wayne Swan had “used their offices and taxpayers’ resources to seek advantage for one of their mates and then lied about it to the Parliament” and that they needed to explain their actions or resign.[31] On 22 June the e-mail Grech had provided to the Liberal Party to support this allegation was found to have been faked by Grech, something he later admitted,[32] and an Australian National Audit Office inquiry cleared both Rudd and Swan of any wrongdoing on 4 August

    During the 2007 election campaign, Turnbull announced that the then Government would contribute $10 million to the investigation of an untried Russian technology that aims to trigger rainfall from the atmosphere, even when there are no clouds. Literature suggests that the technology is based on bogus science.[citation needed] The Australian Rain Corporation presented research documents written in Russian, explained by a Russian researcher who spoke to local experts in Russian.[20]

    Although Turnbull claimed that Australian Rain Corporation is Australian-based, investigations have shown that it is in fact 75 per cent Swiss-owned. It was also revealed that a prominent stakeholder in the Australian Rain Corporation, Matt Handbury, is a nephew of Rupert Murdoch. Turnbull has refused to answer questions regarding Matt Handbury’s contribution to the Wentworth Forum, the main fund-raising organisation for Turnbull’s 2007 election campaign.[20]

    Perhaps his hypocrisy and lies wrt the NBN convince you of his “vision”?

    MT is in fact, a much better “salesman” than Abbott, perhaps, but he’s still selling the same bullshit and lies which seem to typify the (extreme- is there any other?) right at present.

    Honesty perhaps?

    In February 2007, Turnbull was criticised for claiming a government allowance of $175 a night and paying it to his wife as rent while living in a townhouse owned by her in Canberra.[19]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Turnbull

  176. Andrew, Turnbull is a party man towing the lines of spin and obfuscation, and although i would agree that he is the best of a really bad bunch, he is still a member of that bad bunch.

    He is also hated by the power brokers within the party, and will only get a second tilt at the job if all else fails with Abbott, as an electable leader (?).

    He will then be rolled after the election as the people pulling the purse strings want Abbott as their puppet.

    These people (and I use the term loosely) will do anything to gain power! 👿

    Cheers

  177. I agree, TS. The Libs might well have Turnbull as an electable leader but who else will we get when they roll him as too moderate? By the way he has no more policies to offer than Abbott, and no apparent support base within the party membership at national or state levels or even in amongst MPs to help him develop some. Where do these people get off talking about voting for the Coalition ‘cos Malcolm’s a nice man!

  178. Min

    Its not about the monk, intelligent people vote on policy.

    I’ll accept a brown dog as leader in preference to a lame duck.

  179. Patricia, exactly, Turnbull is a LIb, if he was interested in social policy, or being fair and decent, he would quit the party, as he that pays the piper calls the tune, and we know who pays the liberal piper!

    And when the piper starts playing, Turnbull dances along with the rest of the the bad bunch, which is displayed clearly in his efforts to derail the NBN.

    Even if you forget Godwin Grech, the man is not honest, and has no credibility in trying to sell us something that is surely second best when he puts his own money into a system that in his own country he is trying to discredit.

    The best of a bad bunch doesn’t mean that he is good!

    Cheers

  180. Hmm, yes, I do know all the ideological responses. (Didn’t have to hear them to know them, as Bill Clinton so eloquently put it: “… the problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence. So you have to mold the evidence to get the answer that you’ve already decided you’ve got to have.”)

    But getting back to the facts, look at the result in Wentworth last time round. I’m hardly alone.

  181. el dildo, if intelligent people vote on policy, then no-one would vote for the LNP, as they don’t have any.

    And since you have obviously made up your (alleged) mind to vote for a party that has NO policy, then you are finally admitting what most of us already know, that you aren’t an intelligent person.

    Thanks for that 😆

    Cheers 😆 😆

  182. So Andrew you deny that Turnbull attempted to use a considerable amount of public money to prop up a friend’s shonky business, or that he was deeply involved in Grech, or that against his own beliefs sells down the NBN whilst he invests in similar projects overseas, or that he now cans the Carbon Price and Trading when he is still an advocate for it, and the list of hypocrisy goes on.

    Turnbull is articulate and an astute businessman, but I’ve seen the latter debated, but he rightfully has baggage that can be used against him, not the least is that at every turn he was, is and will be white anted by his Party, as happened constantly when he was their leader.

    There are several factors for the results in Wentworth, not the least being Labor put up a poor candidate and there was a considerable State wide swing against Federal Labor. If Turnbull had been leader with the baggage he has and the power brokers of his Party openly defying and undermining him at every turn, then the results would have been different.

  183. Andrew, I live in Fisher, and as I posted yesterday I was speaking to a man who openly admitted that he voted LNP, but didn’t know why.

    He also admitted that as a small business owner, he was done over by the LNP, and the party that was best for him and his business was Labor, but he was still going to vote LNP.

    As I also said, in Fisher, they would elect Vlad the impaler if he was endorsed by the LNP.

    You also have to take into account that Sophie Mirabella is a sitting member, Chrissy Pyne and even the Abbott is voted in, in their own seats. 👿

    In QLD a good local member was ousted in Ashgrove so that we could have Newman as Premier. 👿

    So to return to the thrust of your premise, in Fisher I feel like I am alone, but it does not stop me trying to do the best for our country, and I will speak out and vote against the LNP, even if I am the only one.

    Evil flourishes when good people do nothing.

    Cheers 😀

  184. So Andrew, which of the points raised are “ideological” in nature – all of MT’s misjudgements lies and misdirections (as raised) are a matter of record, and in no way require the (your) precondition that

    you have to mold the evidence to get the answer that you’ve already decided you’ve got to have.

    In fact, all of the matters I raised are matters of evidence which may be used to inform one’s conclusions wrt to Turnbull.

    That you attempt to deflect such criticisms without any basis, reveals your unspoken fealty to the lie machine which is the lnp.

    Just another troll “trying it on”, I fear.

  185. With you on that one pterosaur. I was going to raise a similar objection to Andrew’s post in that he responded to open and factual information on Turnbull, and criticisms of him that were made not only by the Left but more so by the Right, by throwing in the ideological charge whilst not only ignoring the facts presented on Turnbull, but saying these facts were “moulded”, in other words distorted or altered, to suit an ideological cast.

    So I too have my suspicions that we have another dyed in the wool Right Winger saying they used to vote Labor but have somehow been transformed into Liberal lovers, even though the Liberals go against most of their supposed previously held tenets of social justice and fairness.

  186. OK, I’ll try to deal with these responses, although I’m not sure why. All I did was say what I thought and what I was doing. I wasn’t prescribing anything or telling anyone else what to do.

    Mobius, I know Steve Lewis and he was by no means a “poor candidate”. It’s a pity Turnbull has to toe the party line on carbon and the NBN, but he would be crucified by the Mass Mind Control if he didn’t. And you can hardly blame him for the policies. Of course, as long as the extreme right control the LP, that’s where it’s all going to stay. Not sure why or how any of this detracts from my original position, but there you go.

    Truth Seeker, I’m afraid I don’t get the point you’re making. I do apologise.

    pterosaur1, I told you I was a leftie from way-back. I’ve been through enough Trotsykist/Stalinist/Leninist/Moaist/Althuserrist/Whateverist to last me several lifetimes. I find all the reiteration that “Turnbull is a Lib, therefore he is bad” a “four legs good, two legs bad” ideological position that is neither interesting or useful. The “evidence” against Turnbull is much like the “evidence” against Gillard – of endless fascination to the agents of mass mind control but of little consequence in matters of policy and running the country. If they’ve done something wrong, charge them. If you can’t, drop it. And, if you don’t mind, could we drop the name-calling?

  187. Andrew, the point I am making, is simply that for someone who professes a deep left wing leaning, to vote for one who’s support will produce a PM the likes of Abbott who will destroy everything that the left stand for, seems a tad disingenuous.

    And if you think that you have no choice because of the electorate that you live in, well thats like saying everyone else is jumping into the abyss so I might as well do the same.

    And if you think that what Gillard is accused of 17 + years ago (wrongly), and the corrupt practices Turnbull HAS been involved in much more recently, are the same, then I struggle to see your alleged left leaning.

    Cheers

  188. Thanks, Truth Seeker. I see you live up to your moniker.

    I thought long and hard about my ballot and decided that a Turnbull vote by a traditional ALP voter was about as anti-Abbott as I could get. You may disagree, but that’s democracy.

    Regarding the “evidence” either way, I’m not equating the two, but until they’re tested under proper due process, they’re all just accusations and allegations. I don’t subscribe to the so-called court of public opinion (which is really the court of mind control) and I do so even-handedly.

    I’m a scientific leftie, not an ideological one. I like facts and evidence. When the facts and evidence change, I’ll change my mind. Until then, I have no opinion.

  189. Fair enough Andrew.

    The very points you raise though means that Turnbull, or any other moderate for that matter, will never be a leader of the Liberals for a very long time to come, and this should be the reason to shun the Liberals, even by Liberal supporters.

    Clearly voting in a moderate government like the ALP sends the message that radical Right Wing governments will never be entertained. That’s what it took for the NSW State Liberals to get elected, the appearance of the ditching of the radical Right that were undermining it. That O’Farrell turned out to be only very slightly left of Clarke was only revealed after the deed was done, but that perception of a moderate Liberal Party did get them elected in a landslide.

    At the moment the Federal Liberals here, and the State Liberals in Queensland, are attempting to outdo the far right in the US and are following the same tactics of spoiling, negativity and scaremongering. You don’t reward that by turning tail on a Party you grown out of and voting for the radical nutjobs.

    The only way the Liberals are going to purge the radical right from their ranks and have their corporate puppet masters strings cut is by voters sending the message to them that they will never vote for a party that has shifted so far and is in the complete control of vested interests who don’t have the interests of ordinary Australians at heart.

  190. Jesus H Christ, you really can’t make this shit up.

    Andrew Thompson are you for real?

    The evidence against Turnbull is documented, his shares in the said NBN company are factual, the Godwin Gretch affair is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

    OTOH there is not a skerrick, a scintilla of evidence against Julia Gillard. Just a load of innuendo, that is as political as the day is long.

    You have been given two points that are factually correct and a reason that Turnbull is untrustworthy, and you give a load of horse shite about Stalin and Trotskyist bogey men under the bed shite, in return.

    There is no one on this planet that has dabbled in left of centre politics to the level you have alluded to and then have an epiphany and would vote for the representation of what most on the left thinks is the devil incarnate and is fervently against every thing he stands for.. What unmitigated bollocks.

    Another right wing Troll trying it on. is about right (pardon the pun)

  191. Agree, Möbius. I know it’s a long way off, but I think the ALP will win the next Federal Election, because the voters will send that message, for the reasons you outline. Turnbull is betting the same thing. That’s why he’s still there. On that point, at least, we can all agree with Malcolm!

    But, hey, between now and then, there’s work to be done. Got to get out there and undermine the narrative that the Mass Mind Control is trying to assert.

    Cheers

  192. “I’m a scientific leftie, not an ideological one. I like facts and evidence. When the facts and evidence change, I’ll change my mind. Until then, I have no opinion.”

    I respect what you are saying. What are the facts and evidence that makes you believe Mr. Abbott will be better.

    What are the facts and evidence that has to discard the PM and the present government.

    I ask you this, as I have found and believe most regulars here talk about facts and evidence. There is a very little ideology mentioned.

  193. Sorry Andrew. I will admit I am a little unclear what your message is. My question still stands. What are the facts and evidence that you are talking about.

    What will you be voting in the Senate?

    Why do people respond as you just did, when asked what facts and evidence one is talking about.
    Personally, I think a vote for Turnbull is a wasted vote. He has sold himself out over the years.

    Turnbull could have went to the shadow back bench, doing as Keating did, continuing his battle for change.

    That took guts and commitment.

  194. ” Hey Catching up, I never said Abbott would be better. I am working for the re-election of the Gillard government, but I’m voting for Malcolm Turnbull.”

    Of course you are, I know that’s true because the fairy’s down the bottom of the garden told me so.

    You are a Troll, I may look like a fucking cabbage, but I ain’t green.

  195. Apologies to anyone who wants to have a discussion, but I don’t need to be abused or called names, least of all by someone who can’t spell or punctuate, so I’m out of here.

    Cheers

  196. Sorry Andrew but I am interested, if you have any answers to my questions.

    I ask them all time, but no one seems to know what the magic facts and evidence are that they tell us they based their beliefs on.

    Just thought you might be different.

    If that is name calling, hate to think how you would cope, if you have to endure what we do from the right.

    Makes us a little skeptical when someone new starts commenting in a similar vein.

    Andrew, you could always stay, and prove that some of us have you wrong.

    Let us know what the facts and evidence are, that you find so important.

  197. Oh, this is so hilarious! Hey Mobius…tell the people who you voted for in 2007? Nah, I will tell them…Joanna Gash of the Liberal Party.

    I voted Labor in 2007, even took my Kevin 07 cricket bat to the booth. Got photos to prove it. Gee, on some issues I’m left of you morons but I do more than talk about it.

    Andrew, you must understand that if one does not follow the strict left wing orthodoxy at this place one is called a troll. Cafe Vladivostok!

  198. Andrew, WTF that’s like saying I want peace in Afghanistan, so I am selling arms to the Taliban!

    Turnbull is a Liberal, you will never help re-elect Gillard by voting for Turnbull.

    I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but sadly I think PJ is right.

  199. scaper I feel for you if Joanna is one of your heroes.

    No, scaper, all we are asking is for him to share some of his facts and evidence with us. It was him that said, that is what he bases his views on. What is personal; in that.

    I was looking forwarded to hearing from some new blood. I am disappointed that is not going to happen.

  200. Andrew, if you’re still there, I have appreciated your input. You must understand that many of us are a little on edge because of the amount of people who come here simply to stir things up, and hence we’ve become rather suspicious of newcomers.

    However, I noticed that you are substantially different in that you made some effort to back up your arguments. That alone separates you from the many who just want to rant and rave and hear nothing but their own voice.

    You’re welcome here any time. If we don’t agree with you, well, we do have in our numbers many who will tell you in one way or another.

    You may have even noted that many here were quite happy to engage with you. We like doing that as well.

    Oh look, here’s scaper.

  201. Last week I couldn’t spell Trotskyist, now I are one. Let me see.
    Have just checked my comment with an English Thesaurus spelling looks good, granmama looking very well, radiant in fact, all systems go and now Post Comment.

  202. Despite his protestation that he is a “scientific leftie,” I am also of the opinion that Andrew is a troll who is “trying it on,” i.e., pretending to be a “leftie.”

    I would like Andrew to prove us wrong. Time will tell, I suppose.

  203. Perhaps it might be worth some of you clicking on Andrew’s name & looking at his facebook page. You might find links to a Peter Wicks article “On trial with News Ltd” from IA, a PvO article suggesting the Liberals shouldn’t be called Liberals, but Conservatives, a link to a SMH article on Justice Rares judgement, and other goodies.

    Just sayin’ 😉

  204. What will you be voting in the Senate?

    Yep, by their Senate vote you shall know them.

    How about it, Andrew?

  205. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to anything I may have posted which would equate to your claims (as addressed to me) that

    I find all the reiteration that “Turnbull is a Lib, therefore he is bad” a “four legs good, two legs bad” ideological position that is neither interesting or useful.

    and perhaps you could clarify why you regard

    The “evidence” against Turnbull is much like the “evidence” against Gillard

    given of course that the evidence against MT

  206. CU, I’m only aware of one person here that lives in Jo’s seat, Nowra.

    I don’t do hero worship…especially politicians as it leads to tears.

  207. FFS a Kevin 07 cricket bat doesn’t prove you voted for him. Nobody knows what you actually put on the ballots but you, just as they didn’t know what I put on mine.

    And voting Gash has nothing at all to do with the subject at hand and what Andrew was contending re Turnbull.

    But typical, you stick your nose in and stuff it all up in your eagerness to personally attack. What’s next? Oh yes the hissy fit.

  208. CONTINUED (WTF???)

    given of course that the evidence against MT

    is concrete, and the evidence against the PM is nonexistent, except if one is using ideological grounds to, for instance, make the claim that “she lied” wrt the imposition of a non-existent “carbon tax”

  209. Some of the natives here can get a little touchy Andrew, putting up with genuine trolls like Iain Hall and Treeman amongst others.

    Having said that, the reasonable points raised by CU, Möbius Ecko and pterosaur1 remain to be answered, should you choose to do so…

  210. Andrew, if you want to have a genuine discussion with people here, you shouldn’t come out swinging with accusations that the people here are “ideologues.” That doesn’t sound like genuine discussion on your part.

  211. I believe that the argument which I put forward was dealing in facts rather than opinion and Turnbull did make a huge error in the Grech affair. Likewise his unreliability has me concerned. I did imagine him to be a dissenting voice amongst the Libs and therefore showing true leadership, however his performance in recent times has been somewhat slapdash..speaks for no apparent reason but remains silent on issues where one would expect him to have a strong opinion.

  212. Some of the natives here can get a little touchy Andrew, putting up with genuine trolls like Iain Hall and Treeman amongst others.

    God help Andrew if he gets into an argument with those two. Then’s there’s Voyager and Neil. 😯

    And el gordo. 🙄

  213. ” Andrew may also have an opinion on matters atmospheric? ”

    Indeed. Like you, he has his head in the clouds.

  214. Yep, you’re right on that score PJ, he’s one of you.

    ‘I think the ALP will win the next Federal Election’, said Andrew.

  215. ” Yep, you’re right on that score PJ, he’s one of you.”

    Look el, can I call you el?

    ” Head in the clouds” is mine. There are no prizes for seconds el, the game is not played that way. Find your own source of wit. Yes I said wit not shit…

    OBTW Andrew is right, in so many more ways than the election outcome no doubt..

  216. I think you have gotten it wrong on Turnbull. Malcolm’s problems began when he rolled Brendan. Way, way too early in the cycle and he paid the price. Now, it is all out of whack and YOU will have Abbott as the next PM…unless Gillard is rolled early in the year.

  217. Miglo
    JANUARY 2, 2013 @ 4:28 PM
    Some of the natives here can get a little touchy Andrew, putting up with genuine trolls like Iain Hall and Treeman amongst others.

    God help Andrew if he gets into an argument with those two. Then’s there’s Voyager and Neil.

    And el gordo.

    Wow, Iain and I are ” genuine” Thanks for the compliment Miglos!

  218. Treeman, I didn’t say that sentence ‘Some of the natives . . .’. I was quoting it.

    Do you understand what a quote is? It is indented in from the left, is written in italic and has a darker font. Like this:

    It’s hot today.

    Is there anything else I can help you with?

  219. Silk said ” Yep, by their Senate vote you shall know them.”
    Just for the record I voted Greens in the Senate …… does that make me a Watermelon 😕 …. 😆
    Hi, Andrew you said “………least of all by someone who can’t spell or punctuate, so I’m out of here.” ….. umm, spelling and punctuation ain’t priorities here,…… the message IS…. and I hope you can return, so far you sound reasonable…. except for the can’t speell doovee 😀 that kind of rebuttle is more akin to RW blogs and raises suspicions as to your motivations, mm !! …. anyway I wouldn’t worry about being called names, It happens 😯 so what …water off a ducks etc.
    Andrew ( sorry, name calling ) as this topic is more about Tony Abbortt … what are your thoughts on this ,umm, ‘man’.. ???

  220. If Treeman fell over in a forest and no one was there to see it …… then from whence did the laughter emanate :D…. just say’n 😉

  221. Treeman, not properly rolled yet. A rear guard action is in play…a Fabian thing. But what would I know?

    Yeah, it is hot today, must be the air that has drifted across from WA. Speaking of WA…I head off on Monday towards Perth. Only a 4,300 km journey. Always knew I was going to end up there.

    No, not working for Gina. Doing my thing for another company that offers great rewards if I pull it off. Not related to mining but not to say that I might hook a few diggers. Told Gina today that I’m relocating.

    Got a meeting with the ANDEV executive lined up for after Australia Day. We are now into phase three of the vision…policy formulation. I will be revisiting phase two as not convinced it has realised the stated full potential.

    Leaving the wife behind until I’ve got a base established. We have never been apart more than ten days in the last 26 years…Skype sex awaits.

  222. I was just an after thought.

    El gordo, you actually made me laugh.

    Don’t take it to heart – it was said in an endearing way. You know we luv ya.

  223. Just for the record I voted Greens in the Senate …… does that make me a Watermelon?

    Absolutely. Just like me.

  224. el gordo, not happy with the completion of stage one either. But just remember…I’m supposed to be full of shit.

    “Firstly in Phase 1- Raising awareness throughout a well planned road show through the North of Australia and in major capital cities and thereby creating strong foundation with people in the North and other key stakeholders across Australia,
    and
    Secondly in Phase 2- growing the ANDEV membership and establishing a policy framework on Northern Development with key stakeholders such as the Coalition.”

  225. Always knew I was going to end up there

    Wow! To have such ‘insights’. Well I suppose it fits with the ‘vision’ thing and other froms of mental delusion. Political parties, deck building, river bank restoration, conveys of no consequences. tent embassies, political lobbyist, … Lol.

    offers great rewards if I pull it off

    Well if it comes to anyone who can ‘pull it off’, this mysterious company has chosen well. Mack is known as a first class wanker. Without peer in fact.

    Told Gina today that I’m relocating

    Just like you told us. And oh how we laughed and laughed and laughed. Just like Gina. Now a mobile ‘political lobbyist’.

    We are now into …

    “We”. Now the royal plural. Talk about delusional. Mack, you are on your own. Wake up!

    never been apart more than ten days in the last 26 years…Skype sex awaits.

    Any more evidence needed that he’s a wanker.

  226. “Yes, you can stop dragging down the quality of the blog.”

    You’re a precious sod aren’t you? Your blog hasn’t a lot of quality to drag down IMHO. A handful of groupie thinkers back slapping and talking up the worst government in Australia’s history.

  227. Has anyone noticed that all our visitors do it talk about is themselves.

    They talk about what they think of us, and what they believe we should do and think.

    They give us their predictions, as if they were set in stone.

    They give us their opinions on many subjects, but always without any supporting data.

    They talk as if what they say cannot be disputed.

    Most of the time, I failed to see what they are trying to communicate.

    Suspect it does not matter, as the aim of their game is to be contrary, nothing more.

    They are not out to convince us of anything, just to insult. They believe they are of a superior species.

    The funny thing is, that have a belief that they are in the majority, and somehow, we are only a few in number,.

    One wonders what their lives are like in the real world, one where the bad manners they show, would never be tolerated.

  228. Only because I have some time:

    Raising awareness throughout a well planned road show

    Must have missed that. Any links? Or was this ‘road show’ just a figment of your somewhat fertile imagination? Or should that be ‘figament’ so that it’s in accordance with your ursurpassed ability to create loads of new ‘EGGCORNS”.

    For those who are interested, here’s a link:

    http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/browse-eggcorns/

    As for .. No I shouldn’t go on. Something about not being cruel to …

  229. Col, ABBA, N5…you are the wanker. In the real world it is adults that rule. Your tutorials to the seven year old boys in the school toilets holds no wait (weight). Pieces of shit like you have no say in the scheme of things.

    Do you dispute that I am a member of ANDEV and involved in the executive?

    Do you dispute that GSC was invited by Gina to become a part of ANDEV?

    Do you dispute that I might know Gina?

    Do you dispute that I am a premium member of the IPA?

    Do you dispute the fact that I can can get my lines in Parliament through the mouth of the leader of the opposition?

    Do you dispute that my vision for the growth of Australia that I revealed near on five years ago has now got legs?

    Do you dispute that I might just know past and present politicians?

    Come on…give it your best shot, pissant.

    I can prove everything, in your court, Migs. Getting sick of…nah, got more class than to relate this loser’s real name!

  230. He’s alive and well. LOL

    Do you dispute that I am a member of ANDEV and involved in the executive?

    Not at all. it’s all on the ANDEV website where you describe yourself as the CEO of a ‘political party’. LOL. A ‘political party’ without membership, policies, activity and the like. If things were ‘fair’ you would be charged with ‘false pretenses’. Or perhaps ‘fraud’. Then again there’s “blowhard, blusterer, bouncer, braggadocio, crower, egotist, fanfaron, gascon, rodomont, ruffler, skite, vaunter”. The list is almost endless.

    But I’m sure you will keep trying.

    Do you dispute that I might know Gina?

    Not at all. I’m sure you’re great friends. That’s why you’re are driving to WA without your wife, sleeping rough (as you did with the Convoy of No Consequence) rather than flying there in Gina’s Jet. Perhaps she offered and you refused? Or maybe not? Are you abandoning your ‘business’? And your ‘bespoke suits’?

    Do you dispute that I am a premium member of the IPA?

    Wouldn’t know. But I’d be interested who paid for that? Please explain.

    Do you dispute the fact that I can can get my lines in Parliament through the mouth of the leader of the opposition?

    So you admit some responsibility for Abbott’s failure to even wound Gillard? Well I suppose that the truth had to emerge at some stage. And ‘your lines’ have achieved exactly what?.

    Do you dispute that I might just know past and present politicians?

    Oh shit. Her’s a clue Mack, politicians of every stripe make it their business to know voters, even mugs. And you are a classic example..

    Scaper, enjoy your trip to WA. However I suspect that you won’t be going anywhere near Crapperville on your journey, Too bloody hot.

    But keep up the good work. Every village needs …

  231. Jesus scaper that’s a lot of disbute.

    Do you disbute you are barking mad?

    OBTW did I mention I am a member of the A.L.A.C.W.B. ?

    That stands for – Australian- Leftists- Against -Conservative- Wind- Bags.

  232. Missed a few ‘insightful’ comments.

    Do you dispute that my vision for the growth of Australia that I revealed near on five years ago has now got legs

    No scaper, Your ‘vision’, always undefined in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions,’ remains legless. Even Bill Heffernan has been mugged by that reality.. And he’s a real slow learner. A soul mate?.

    Scaper, why are you running away to Perth (which is in the southern areas of the continent) while your ‘vision’ was always been about the north?

    BTW, I suspect that Mrs Mack is very pleased. No longer having to face the claim that she’s a borderline alcholic, had her breasts enhanced., or that she will engage in online sex

    Anyone need a ‘political lobbyist’? Someone who can promote your cause at the highest level? Scaper is your answer.

  233. scaper, why should we care. I have little idea of what you are talking about.

    Do you care what I am doing tomorrow, or whether I might indulge in some cyber sex or not.

  234. Dear oh dear, I think Mack has cut and run.

    Anyone surprised?

    Always love these trolls. Hit them with a slice of ‘history’ and their so called ‘arguments’ are .. whatever.

    Scaper it’s well past your bedtime. You need to rest so that you can engage in your ‘epic journey’. Seriously!

    Service the wife so that she won’t have to debase herself on Skype.

    You really are a lowlife.

  235. Hey Col, care to share with us that little toilet incident back in 2005? Don’t lecture me, low life! Would I trust you with my daughter??? Wouldn’t trust you with my dog…even if he was on top.

  236. Charming place….interesting chat room.

    Scaper

    If very fast rail is not part of the equation then ANDEV will remain a pipe dream.

  237. Looks to me as if the fundamental dangers to sanity inherent in the denial of reality are making themselves felt as the trolls become increasingly incoherent and delusional.
    Probably time to change prescriptions or to increase dosages?

    Still haven’t heard or read seen anything from any of them in the form of reasons to support the lnp.

  238. “The punters know that the horse named Morality rarely gets past the post, whereas the nag named Self-interest always runs a good race.” – Gough Whitlam

    “It has always seemed strange to me… the things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling, are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest, are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.” – John Steinbeck

    “You do not wake up one morning a bad person. It happens by a thousand tiny surrenders of self-respect to self-interest.” – Robert Brault

    http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=iqnuv6bab&v=001Odyl7ekdr1aJUhTEEwXTWxtaZeQRR80L2O-g2fvZAnqVDin3R4pfo5fxvdofp0rwtzswk5q8VDzWfVl0xAaQhHuGRirp4glXH3UCz4WQFxsKDZFPcDvT8g%3D%3D

    Lets hope self interrest takes over this year.

  239. Pingback: So you’re thinking of voting for Tony Abbott? Think again! | The Australian Independent Media Network

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