Joe Hockey, Welfare to Work, and a pack of damn lies

It is hard to keep a lie hidden forever, especially if you don’t dust over its tracks. I’ve uncovered one from Joe Hockey. Not only was it a lie, but it was also an act of contempt from the Howard Government towards disadvantaged Australians, or indeed, all Australians.

The lie goes back awhile, back to the failed Welfare to Work (WtW) program introduced in 2005 to increase workforce participation among single parents, people with disabilities, and unemployed people aged over 50. I won’t bother with the finer details of the policy; it’s not important.

We didn’t hear much about WtW until March 2007; an election year. Apparently it was a great success according to Joe Hockey:

Welfare changes and a healthy job market are set to deliver the Federal Government a $500 million budget surprise this financial year as the number of people on income support payments falls faster than expected.

The Employment Minister, Joe Hockey, seized on the figures as evidence the Government’s controversial welfare and industrial relations changes were helping disadvantaged people find jobs.

Latest estimates by the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations [DEWR] show income support payments will cost $21.76 billion in 2006-07, down from the $22.28 billion estimated in last year’s budget.

The largest savings are coming from a lower than expected number of people on the disability support pension [DSP] under the welfare to work changes and falling dole payments to the unemployed.

Well this was a lie. Let’s look at the DSP numbers for, and surrounding, 2007. Here’s a summary:

DSP Population as at June

2006: 712,163

2007: 714,156

2008: 732,367

If the figures were going up, then what happened to the $500M that was meant to be saved?

The Howard Government wanted it for something else, hence the lie that it wasn’t needed under the WtW program. My source tells me that the Secretary of DEWR, Dr Peter Boxall, was told to take $750M from Newstart and DSP payments as it was needed elsewhere, with no explanation given. This infuriated Boxall (a Howard appointee), who had no option but to find the money, however, could only come up with $500M. My informant attests that this demand came from the top, which could only mean Hockey or even Howard himself.

It was not a political move, although it is easy to assume it might have been given it was an election year. No, it was much more sinister than that.

In February 2007 the US Vice President, Dick Cheney visited Australia and Howard offered more support to the US to help with their war in Iraq. This is what Howard offered:

. . . a strengthening of . . . training effort comprising a dedicated logistics team of roughly 50 personnel, together with about 20 extra Army training instructors to work with the Iraqi Army.

And that, it is whispered, is where the money went. It was ripped away from needy Australians to help America with their war in Iraq. Aided, by the way, with a nice little terrorist alert around the same time to help cushion the blow; to win public support. A terrorist alert, I have on advice, that was fabricated for political gain.

Lying and contempt is the LNP modus operandi.

328 comments on “Joe Hockey, Welfare to Work, and a pack of damn lies

  1. Have you actually checked out what Gillard is doing on the very same welfare issues that you are attacking Hockey about?
    Mate its just as bad or worse than anything the coalition have done or proposed.

  2. On a rare occasion Hockey was pulled up in a lie by the media his response was to tell them to get stuffed.

    Hockey has a long history of lying through his teeth but unlike most politicians, especially the Liberals, he’s bad at it.

  3. Here’s a reminder..

    Let us cast our minds back to the 2010 election. The LNP refused point blank to have their policies costed by the Treasury, claiming that Treasury would leak them. After repeated demands for the costings to be released, they produced a single sheet of paper prepared by “the fifth largest accounting form in Australia”. It should come as no surprise to fellow Derpsters that the company that prepared this chicanery, Howarth’s. have strong ties to the Liberal Party in Western Australia. The people who prepared that idiocy were subsequently fined by the Institute Of Chartered Accountants for breaching professional standards. To this day Hockey still maintains that these dodgy costings are legitimate.

    http://thedailyderp.net/2012/05/04/joe-hockey-proves-he-is-a-buffoon-again/

  4. Iain, once again I suspect you have it wrong, The PM pointed out in the latest interview, that most single mothers are already in that position,. Some have fallen through the net, and get more money, that the majority..

    Iain, I think that you might find out that the PM has increased money to these women in other areas, to assist them back to work.

    Just a thought. Iain, that could be why these women have not attracted much pity. Those in the know, are aware of the true state of affairs.

    It was Howard that bought in the original leglisation. Did not hear an outcry from the tight then.

    Sometimes it does pay to listen to the PM. The PM does answer questions.

  5. voyager, it appears from your many comments, the more one lies the better.

    Min. Sorry Horwath, not Howarth Many make the mistake.

  6. Migs, I believe that Hockey has a bigger problem..

    He does not know when he is being lied to.

    Remember the one Abbott told him the night before the dumping of Mr,.Turnbull

    The one if he ran, I will withdraw.

    The man is just too trusting.

  7. The man is just too trusting.

    Or just a twat, CU. 😆

    Lying seems o be endemic in Liars Party circles; lying and projection. Here we have possibly the greatest mob of liars in political history accusing the PM of what they do in spades.

    We’ve always known the Rodent is a lying toerag and it seems that his henchmen have learned the lesson well, particularly Liealot. But He was already an accomplished liar, so the Rodent just needed him to polish up his skills.

    And the dingbats say with straight faces that this mob deserve to be in government.
    Liars and now we find they’ve added thieving to their CVs. Dingbats must feel so proud.

  8. Are you calling Joe a liar? he said that he will deliver a surplus and lots of surplusses…but the books are closed and he ..well arrrrrhhhhh….DNA DNA, credibility….wayne swan..balh blah..surplus high tax big spin..I mean big spending… Look over there..quick

  9. Well the biggest lie, is that the economy is in trouble. That they have to rebuild it. What could be bigger lies than that,

    The one where they will not bring in new taxes, and in the next breath come up with giving baby allowances to women, who earn up the $150 thousand a year. Will be paid at that rate. Who will pay, of course, a levy on industry.

    Yes, no new taxes, What about the one that is embedded in Direct Action, that is not a tax.

    Waste will cease, but we will pay for a nanny,

    The one they Spruik, that Labor is a high taxing, high spending government, when all figures prove this to be false.

    The one that the so called carbon tax was going to destroy the budgets of Australians. Few noticed the little extra cost, in their budgets.

    Maybe it would be easier, and I am sure the list will be short, to give examples of when Mr.Hockey and his ilk, tell the truth.

  10. Tom & CU, to be fair, Iain may have been flat chat at work so he can have an early Xmas minute. Or spring cleaning-where does he find the time?

    Maybe it would be easier, and I am sure the list will be short, to give examples of when Mr.Hockey and his ilk, tell the truth.

    *crickets*

  11. Jane, I would go for the description of “twat”. Hockey lost me when he refused to attend Rudd’s daughter’s wedding because Howard TOLD him not to. Pardon the expression but, weak as piss.

  12. Florence
    I have been busy with Christmas shopping and preparations, entertaining my now holidaying children and doing a general clean up around the place (with the very generous help of a mate with a large trailer, that said my suggestion that you and the others look to Labor’s changes to Social security rules and provisions was not just an attempt to distract attention. I was making a most serious point that its not just the coalition who are toughening up the rules and criteria for eligibility for the DSP Labor are not at all different in that respect, they have likewise reduced the number of staff at Centerlink, de funded quite a few employment service providers who specialise in providing services to this disabled as of January one next year single parents (mostly women) will be moved onto Newstart which is a lower rate that the parenting benifit.
    Now if you don’t agree with the coalition making life harder for the most needy in our society then how can you ignore or excuse Labor doing precisely the same thing?
    On this issue I say a plague on both their houses

  13. I just love the way on Facebook, in response to this post, the right-wingers are screaming “but Gillard does the same thing”.

    Huh.

  14. No Iain, I do not agree with you. I was a single mother myself. The greatest gift I got from any government was the chance to go to Uni and get off that f… pension.

    Howard t0ook most mothers off when the youngest turned 7, I believe. I have a grandson, that exists because of Mr. |Howard’s action, an tool that the mother did not need to go to work.

    The mother is a very intelligent woman, who did do some studying. The silly thing did not realize she needed a fifth child to stay home. The wom\an would qualify for a disability pension.

    What Mr. Howard supplied the stick but no carrot.

    The PM and Labor over the last 5 years, ha\ve added much carrot.

    The best thing women, unlucky enough to find themselves single parents is the means to earn a decent income.

    Believe me, a pension is not the best answer.

    Iain, I would be having a crack at you, if you were a woman, staying home because of half grown children, children that age have no need for parents 24”7.

  15. “Well the biggest lie, is that the economy is in trouble. That they have to rebuild it. What could be bigger lies than that,”

    Forgive me if I misunderstand you CU, but I I think there’s bit of truth of truth in that.

    Hockey’s medicine for what is nothing more than a summer cold however (the cash rate is 3% for a damn good reason) is full blown pneumonia.

    If Joe was a nineteenth century apothecary he’d still be prescribing leeches for the vapours.

    That being said however, the really funny thing is that is that we all still see a surplus as something to be applauded. At least the leeches would probably just drop off when when they’d had their fill. A surplus can make the economy very sick.

  16. Yes, Iain, I am saying that. Gillard did not lie about DSP recipient numbers so she could secretly siphon money away to support the war in Iraq.

    If you have evidence that she did, please provide it.

    And of she did, I’d be equally disgusted with it.

  17. Florence
    We own our place outright and we live a very simple life so with no rent or mortgage to pay we don’t need a fortune coming in to live very well. So we can afford for me to do precisely what so many women do within their marriages, stay at home and devote myself to “domestic duties”. Further like many parents I am very uncomfortable with the idea of my children coming home to an empty house or being in the dubious care of strangers, all for the sake of a place on the consumer treadmill.

  18. Mangrove, the obsession with a surplus has made life very difficult here in Canberra.

    Jobs are scarce. Public service numbers are being cut to unmanageable numbers. Unemployment levels are going to shoot up into unknown territory.

  19. Iain, doing what?

    These women have had plenty of time and warning to prepare for the next stage of their lives.

    They know what was coming.

    Why should once a woman once she has have a baby, believe that entitles her to be taken care of for the rest of her life.

  20. Iain, you are entitled to lead your life any way you like.

    Just do not expect all to pat you on the back, telling you what a good daddy you are.

    It will not occur, especially as you are great at telling others how to live and what they should believe.

  21. Florence

    Why should once a woman once she has have a baby, believe that entitles her to be taken care of for the rest of her life.

    I have never said that they should be supported for life but expecting them to return (or enter the workforce) when their youngest child is eight is rather punitive especially if they do not have a family network to help out. Have you seen the cost of child care lately?

  22. Iain, “expected to return to work” is yet another of your exaggerations..try expected to seek work or enter study. Both are excellent strategies to help a parent whose youngest is 8yrs old obtain both independence and a future.

  23. I certainly don’t expect or even want a pat on the back Florence I just want to point out that the assumption that a married parent who has older children needs to return to work makes certain assumptions. Its usually the need to service endless debt that forces both parties to a marriage into the workforce and if you are not carrying the common level of debt then the incentive is entirely absent surely you can understand that?

  24. No one cares about the Iraq war any more

    You speak for yourself, no one else, cos all you do is expose your ignorance and narrow vision

    And inability to follow up on promises

  25. I see factless troll is again making assertions based on NO FACTS. What a surprise. Iain, the war may have been forgotten by you & your fellow Right Wing War mongers, but the rest of us haven’t forgotten the more than $3 billion cost for a war based entirely on lies & false assumptions. Nor have we forgotten that 3 of the most senior members of the Howard Cabinet-including Howard himself-turned a blind eye to the more than $300 million worth of bribes that AWB were paying Hussein right up until we officially declared war. Yet you gutless, Right Wing war mongers want to obsess over Gillard’s dealings with senior members of the AWU 20 years ago? Sheesh, just goes to show how out of whack your priorities are!

  26. Miglo @ 2:01 pm

    Iain, you obviously supported the war from Day 1. You are a disgrace.

    There is no disgrace in supporting the removal of murderous tyrants Like Saddam, Hussein, even if you realise that it could have been done better.

    Min @ 2:05 pm

    Iain, “expected to return to work” is yet another of your exaggerations..try expected to seek work or enter study. Both are excellent strategies to help a parent whose youngest is 8yrs old obtain both independence and a future.

    Min, with respect, there is no substantive difference between what I said and your “expected to seek work or enter study” the experience of people I know who are “seeking work or undertaking study” is that they end up on a rather soul-destroying treadmill. It does however generate business for employment agencies who are paid on a per-capita basis for each client that they “process”.

    El Gordo

    Thanks for that 😉

  27. MJ, fully agree. Yes, we live in a fragile world, as far as the economy goes.

    Anyone with any sense knows that surpluses are rhe last thing we need at this time.

    With labor, we can only hope they keep the cuts, as they have been doing, cutting back upper class welfare and removing rebates to the wealthy. It they go any fur\rther, we will be in trouble.

    Mr. Abbott does not have the answers, as he does not appear to know what the questions are. Same goes for Hockey.

    Iain, yes, I have many grand and great grand kids.

    What I did not have, back in the dark days, was access to any childcare.

    I did have an elderly father to rely on. That is where my support began and ended.
    I did find ways to manage. Did take on many jobs, that were not of my choice.

    Did not say it was easy., Then it is not always easy for two parent families either.

    I have seen much written on this site, from those on the right, condemning our Abotiginals because they will not help themselves.

    Why not the same ideology applied here in our white community.

    Also , even where we have single mothers. There are also fathers somewhere around. Surely they still have some responsibility in the care of their kids.

    They may no longer be husbands or partners, fatherhood cannot be walked away from.

    I will say it again, the best thing single mothers can have, is access to good paying jobs. For this to occur, they need to be educated or trained. The mother has a responsibility to improve her chances, for the benefit of her kids.

  28. Another inconvenient truth.

    I worked in child welfare for years.

    Most of my investigations and case load was made up of women on pensions.

    Very few notification’s from the families working mothers. The ones we did get, were quickly dealt with.

    To get a better life for these kids, we placed them in daycare for protection.

    Those kids would have been much better off,if the mother’s got off their backside and out to w2ork. Many never worked a day in their lives.

    It is my experience that many women who claim to stay home for the kids, are having themselves and others on, My home used to be full after school, with kids of stay home mothers. It made my life much harder, believe me.

    PS, I am not talking about adolescents. My experience with the few I have dealt with, that they are more interested in improving themselves, than a lifetime on a pension.

    Most go into partnerships anyway.

  29. Iain, if you think I believe that stay at home parenting is over values, you are sure correct.

    To believe so, is an insult to all those families with two working parents, the greater majority by the way.

    They manage to rear well behaved and decent people. They also manage to get to the important events in their kids’ lives. They even get their kids to sport and other events.

    I do not believe the kids suffer in any way. There is no evidence to say they do.

  30. “On this issue I say a plague on both their houses”

    I agree wholeheartedly with Iain here.

    I haven’t kept up with what the actual payments and benefits are these days but from all accounts they’re way below the so-called poverty line.

    If a wealthy country like Australia (as we’re always being constantly told) can’t afford to provide a liveable safety net for its own then it’s a pretty piss-poor turn out. After all, these people spend every penny they get. And according to even uber-right sinecures like the IMF, the turn around on such cash injections is around 1.7 times.

    Unemployment is a failure of government. It’s a breech of the social contract. If the private sector is spooked by current conditions (and who would blame them) it’s the govt who has to step up to the plate. Jesus Christ is not a player, in spite of Jingle Bells imploring to me spend up big whenever I get within earshot of some poor bastard trying to eke out a living.

    And if we think 5.4% (or whatever it is) unemployment is the new “full employment”, tell “them” the get stuffed. It’s only that low because of the participation rate.

    Every day 100 dogs go out to dig for bones but there are only 95 buried in the field. Five dogs goes come home every night empty handed. Another 5 dogs didn’t even bother getting out of the kennel. The govt can run all the “how to dig for bones” courses they like, but 5 dogs will come home every night empty handed.

    That means 10% of the dog force just lies around all day doing nothing. Surely we can do better than that.

  31. Has anyone asked the Iraqians what they felt about that war.

    It was up to his people to get rid of him. It was thanks to the USA that he gained so much power.

    He did not have weapons of mass destruction. He was not mates with the terrorist organizations. In fact, he was their enemy.

    He did have oil, though.

    He was handy to have onside with the war with Iran.

    The war was seen as illegal. Did not have the support of the UN.

    What else can one say. Yes, I do care about that war. It was one we should not have been in.

    Where is the proof the people are any better off.

  32. And if we think 5.4% (or whatever it is) unemployment is the new “full employment”, tell “them” the get stuffed. It’s only that low because of the participation rate.

    I AGREE!

    It’s a dumb line for Labor to run, because it is obvious that there are people out there looking for work, unable to find it, and hurting.

  33. Cu, Downer admitted a few years back that the war was motivated by oil. But most of us knew that anyway. All except Iain. He fell for the old Howard trick: lies.

  34. Migs, I am not into details, but do you have any knowledge of what is available to single mums today.

    I am not too sure, how they are going to fare with the downgrading of the TAFES in the eastern states. Must have some effect on their chances of a better life.

  35. “It was up to his people to get rid of him. It was thanks to the USA that he gained so much power.”

    The USA has a sordid history of murdering democratically elected leaders (especially in South America) when ever their “interests” were threatened.

    They didn’t quite succeed in Cuba so the opted for the next best thing and crippled the regime economically. At the least the Cubans have their pride.

  36. MJ, we are indeed a rich country, that should focus on giving all out people the skills and the opportunity to live a good life.

    That is access to the best education and training available.

    The same goes for the chronic unemployment. Increasing the dole will be of little help to them, in the long run.

    Supporting them in gaining new skills is a better option.

    Same goes for single mothers.

    It is time to pull back on that surpluses. How one does that without the political backlash concerns me.

    Look at our MSM this week and the treatment of the Rare’s Judgement. Says it all

    The PM would be crucified if they did what is seen by the experts as the right thing.

    We can only hope there is still enough stimulus left in lowering interest rates to get us through.

    At least many on the structural problems that have been in the budget since Costello’s and Howard’s day are being dealt with.

    There will be room for more spending. I believe by then, many will want the spending to occur,

    Yes, we are a rich country, and economically can afford it. The problems are not economic, but political.

    The biggest problem is the MSM,

    .

  37. One could ‘view’ a single parent is already doing two jobs…… and if they are employed …that would make three, mm…… just say’n 😉

  38. LOVO, I am aware of where you are at. I believe you might be a good, very good parent. Not taking aim at you or anyone else for that matter.

    One does what one has to.

    I am also aware of what you have written, you appear to be a very community minded person. Your life is not defined by being a single parent,

    I also thank Mr.Whitlam for giving us access to TAFEs and Unis. We have then seen subsidized childcare. All aimed at giving women a chance of a better life, along with their children. Now we have benefits that get us through the time we have a young baby.

    Pensions or whatever one calls them today, should be seen a bridging benefit, one that gets us to a better place,

    Yes, but the mother themselves have to pick up the challenges,

    Believe me having a job, with a good rate of pay, beats pensions everyday. Take it from one that knows.

    Suspect it also raises the productivity of the economy.

  39. The ventriloquists dummy strikes again, that dummy being Iain fact less Hall. Hall you really are something else, do you live in a gold fish bowl per chance? I will never cease to be amazed that a right wing know all like Iain Hall can come on to this blog complaining about Labor party social welfare policy. The mind does indeed boggle.

    Hall what part of the following don’t you understand? If not for the Labor party and the union movement there would be no social welfare period. It is not a fiction but a fact there has not been one instance Australia’s history that a conservative government has supported an increase to the minimum wage.Even the old age pension was a Labor party, implemented policy.

    One of your hero’s, take a good look at the picture of him which I’m positive you have on the head of your bed, wanted to turn the whole of the government controlled social welfare infrastructure over to private charities. He started that operation by turning over what used to be a Commonwealth employment service to private enterprise. Yes it did indeed make Kevin Rudd a motza, much to my dis-pleasure. As a matter of fact, this operation cost the tax payer more money. He was only stopped implementing his policy, with the realisation he would have got trounced at the polls.

    If Howard had have gotten away with his plan, it may have been necessary to learn to play the tambourine along with a nice rendition of onward Christian soldiers to get the dole. Although I’m sure that wouldn’t worry you being a an in the cupboard religious kook, fancy that, marching into Iraq with a clear conscience so to speak.

    You know Hall instead of wasting your day blogging away try reading a few books, you may not make as many asinine comments as you do at the moment. I am not holding my breath though, contrary to what others may think about you, I think you are as dumb as a bag of hammers. .

  40. Wasn’t Hussein toying with the idea of re-writing his (nationalised) oil contracts in euros?

    Absolutely MG, and it was soon after that when Cheney wrote his piece on how to control Iraq’s oil assets and necessity for it.

    A year or so later they invaded on the back of the excuse of September 11 2001, having convinced most Americans that Hussein was responsible in what was a real piece of dissimulation by the Bush administration. Even US troops through they were invading Iraq as an exercise in revenge against the perpetrator of the terrorist attacks on the US.

  41. Mr. Murdoch twittered today, asking when will the USA get guns laws, like they have in Australia,

    Mr.. Turnbull twittered back, replying when you and your media get behind it. Or words to that effect.

    ABC news 24.

  42. We might have gun laws CU but with no Customs Officers on the beat anymore, it was only ever a nice idea.

    Let’s hope the guns being smuggled in are only for shooting rabbits.

  43. Iain Hall
    December 16, 2012 @ 6:19 am
    Have you actually checked out what Gillard is doing on the very same welfare issues that you are attacking Hockey about?
    Mate its just as bad or worse than anything the coalition have done or proposed.

    Iain Hall
    December 16, 2012 @ 1:22 pm

    I have been busy with Christmas shopping and preparations, entertaining my now holidaying children and doing a general clean up around the place (with the very generous help of a mate with a large trailer, that said my suggestion that you and the others look to Labor’s changes to Social security rules and provisions was not just an attempt to distract attention. I was making a most serious point

    Translation:
    I just have no information, policy documents or substantiated evidentiary proof to back up my factless opinion other than domestic excuses, so I will use them as an excuse to smokescreen my factless assertion. I did however have enough time to interlope your blog and spout my opinion…..typical.
    Iian some free advice, serious points demand serious facts. You provide neither.

    The reforms to DSP are here http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2012B00017/Explanatory%20Memorandum/Text

    They are generally well received by the industry. The main change is increasing the amount of hours a person can work from 15 paid hours to 30. So you retain your pension card. This is very important for people whose medication and treatment is costly. So if your medications and expenses are around $2200 a month then you can work two days a week and not be penalised. This is a good thing.
    Labor has the political will to create a NDIS, it has never been on the flopositions books. They are incapable of such vision as too hard and expensive regardless of the social benefits.

    Miglo
    December 16, 2012 @ 1:22 pm
    I just love the way on Facebook, in response to this post, the right-wingers are screaming “but Gillard does the same thing”. Huh.
    Typically; without any information of substance whatsoever. The trolls are as desperate as their incompetent masters now the porky pies are unravelling.

    Iain Hall
    December 16, 2012 @ 1:35 pm
    Migs are you saying that Gillard isn’t doing that?

    Doing what, you have not said a thing without any information whatsoever, your word is worthless currency around here Iian. Surprise us with some researched facts and we may let you spend a penny, until then your broke.

    Iain Hall
    December 16, 2012 @ 1:48 pm
    Migs
    No one cares about the Iraq war any more

    Really? Yes past sins and deception may conveniently fade from the 24hr news cycle however history will judge Howard as a liar who took our country to war based on a lie. It serves to the credibility of this opposition and its Howard model mantra They proudly wear it like a badge of credibility where reality tells an entirely inverse story. A murderous tyrant? Iian the only freedom provided to the Iraq people was freeing them of their lucrative oil contracts which were held by the French, renegotiated to the oil companies of Bushes buddies. Australia was dragged into the centre of a Haliburon war on the premise of freedom. What a disgrace, sending our finest to defend a corporate American scheme for what? Money.
    Miglo
    December 16, 2012 @ 2:01 pm
    Iain, you obviously supported the war from Day 1. You are a disgrace.
    Here Hear.. Migs. An indefensible war based upon a lie, not unlike most od Abbotts rhetorical policy void.
    el gordo
    December 16, 2012 @ 2:06 pm
    I don’t care about Iraq.
    Well why go to war?

    Iain Hall
    December 16, 2012 @ 2:18 pm
    The experience of people I know who are “seeking work or undertaking study” is that they end up on a rather soul-destroying treadmill. It does however generate business for employment agencies
    What total bullshit. Independence, learning and self worth is soul destroying for the lazy, inept and ill disciplined. In my substantial experience dealing with post grad uni students in two universities and that of two friends who are single mothers, its entirely the opposite. That is for those who are life motivated to provide a better life for their children.

  44. Yes MJ, the states seem intent on winding them back. May be it is time to remind them, they need tightening up, not easing,

    Still there does not appear to be any figures on how many come out of legal cabinets.

    None at all, in spite of the wave of recent shootings, that are now occurring every day.

    The fact that they are not hurting people within the homes shot up, one can hope that they are all low caliber guns.

    Still Turnbull must believe that the Murdoch media does have clout.

    Might be interesting to hear what Mr. Fraser has to say on One plus One tonight

    Do not expect much support for todays Liberals.

  45. Ricky, one cannot imagine the damage done to women and their children who are trapped on the welfare treadmill.

    Take it from one that was able to escape. Children respect mothers who have worthwhile jobs, believe me.

    We have a children for such a short time. Yes, we do our best for them, but there is much more to life, than raising children.

    We need to prepare for that.

    Yes, dingle mothers deserve and need assistance. Pension alone are far from the answers.

    Same goes for the unemployed.

    This PM is moving away from the concept of welfare and pensions.

    The PM sees the answers being in education and training. It will be a well trained and educate a workforce that takes us into the future.

    Now I know that Labor moving on from the notion of welfare can be hard for some to take on.

    Yes, the future relies on technology, that requires a trained workforce to get the most benefit from.

    If we do not move down this path quickly, we will become the poor white trash of Asia.

    We are now in the time of massive change, leading top new world orders.

    Who is willing to rely on a future government that appears to reside somewhere back in the 1950’s and is into demolishing everything in its path.

    Personally I see something good in moving from the welfare concept to that of empowering and enabling all.

    Yes, even those at the bottom, who are struggling to exist. There is room for all in this wonderful country.

    Yes, to survive, we will need to be leaders in technology and a highly trained and educated workforce.

    It is an exciting future indeed, if we have the guts to grab it.

  46. Ian, many women, including myself, have wanted to work after having a child as we find great satisfaction in our careers. As a single parent, I went back to work when my son was 2 weeks old and put him in child minding. Having a parent working rather sitting around on a pension did, I believe, give him a better outlook on life and also helped him develop independence. He has never suffered from coming home to an empty house when he was older and even though it was difficult at times, I was always able to organise someone to care for him after school, even though I had no family support. It’s a much better way to bring a child up then for them to grow up in a “welfare” house, when they miss out on a lot of the basic things children need and do not necessarily develop the attitude that to have work you like and to earn some money can give you great satisfaction.
    My son now has his own Production Company in Barcelona, Spain. (Icon International). He is married with 2 lovely children and is happy and so am I.

  47. ” This PM is moving away from the concept of welfare and pensions”

    Um so prey tell what are we going to do with people that can’t be trained, let them starve? The so called concept you wax lyrically about is the main platform of the Labor party. The union movement will not sit idly by and let this happen. Gillard is causing another rift in the party anyone nt ocognisant of that fact is not in a union or a member of the Labor party.

    I am a member of the Labor party and I can unequivocally state that the members are not happy with this trend. It is driving us into a U.S. style of social welfare. Anyway Gillard unfortunately wont be around to make that choice..

  48. Most can be trained. Yes, some find it hard to believe.

    If they do not, Will not they come under the support to be put in place under disabilities.

    Yes, there are always some that fall by the wayside, as they do now. There is at the end of the day, not that many.

    Not a reason not to try.

    PS. I spent my late working life in welfare and disabilities. The one thing I learnt, that welfare is not the answer.

    I was married to a man, that was unemployable. Had many problems that were never addressed, handing out the dole, then the disability pension did not do him much good. A wasted life if there was ever one.

    If you look, I think you might just see the unions come ob\n board. What can possibly be wrong with an ideology that says all should be able to achieve their full capabilities. Not all reach the top, but the opportunity to go as far as they can.

    Look at the Downs syndrome children today, and the levels they now reach. It was only a couple of decades ago, that these children were considered not able to be educated, never reaching a standard to become independent. Many are today.

  49. Irene, I applaud you as a strong moral woman and good mother. It would seem from Iian’s comments he is a closet “Socialist”, who would have thought.
    Ladies You can have it all. The welfare treadmill is of more harm to a person’s self-worth than working even the most meager of jobs.
    My partner worked was a mother and did her advanced mathematics degree on a scholarship. I have another friend with no skills, she retrained and now works for a long serving MP. Another woman I know went from single mum check out chick with 3 kids to nurse. It’s hard but everything is hard isn’t it.

    Welfare will be around as long as there is laziness. You can lead a horse to water as they say. Most don’t know whats god for them untill they try it and will complain even if they are in a great situation…just take all these neh saying trolls and Joe Hokey for example.

    Off Topic.. I love Malcomb Turnbull’s Tweet!!!!!
    I montaged it off the wall, interesting.

  50. CU I am a member of a union a retired member, but never the less a member. I go to the meetings, and I can tell you that the rank and file are not happy. I go to Labor party meetings the same applies there. You can call me a liar it wont faze me at all. You can call me confused, again, like most I can get things wrong.

    I have also worked in the area of disabilities so we are square on any point to made there. Where have I said not everyone deserves the same opportunity? I would have thought that quite obvious, that one I am a member of a union I don’t need to be in, and unlike most here, and yes being guilty of assuming something which as you know, makes an ass out of you and me, two, , a member of the Labor party.

    You are now back peddling at the speed of light, You said and agree with Gillards platform ” This PM is moving away from the concept of welfare and pensions ” What I am telling you is, this is not being well received by the rank and file and to quote the head of the A.M.W.U. this is the thin end of the wedge.

    I am a socialist and proud of that tradition, I am not going to see all the gains made by that tradition in the Labor movement, lost by a load of catchy by words and actions that are in keeping with conservative ideology. Most here want to see a Gillard victory at the next election, the thought of a load of left over medieval bully boys running Australia fills me with shock horror. If you think that the Gillard platform is being well received you are wrong.I know for a fact that a lot of Labor party members handed in their cards over Gillards changes to the age limit on single mums with kids. Do your own research. Labor is bleeding votes.

    I say again unfortunately it is over for Gillard.

  51. Iain Hall @ 1:48 pm

    No one cares about the Iraq war any more

    Well that’s blatantly not true as there have been calls from ex-senior military leaders here and others for an enquiry into Australia’s involvement in the illegal invasion of Iraq. We are the only major CoW country not to have one yet and Howard shirked it every time, with lies and deceits.

    Just another in a long line of enquiries the Libs have shirked or stacked.

  52. “The PM sees the answers being in education and training. It will be a well trained and educate a workforce that takes us into the future.

    Now I know that Labor moving on from the notion of welfare can be hard for some to take on.

    Yes, the future relies on technology, that requires a trained workforce to get the most benefit from.”

    No argument with that CU, but that requires cutting adrift from neo-liberal notions of balanced budgets.

    You and I have both poured scorn on the “household finances” analogy so beloved of the coalition front bench but we must admit that it is a deeply embedded mythology that we make never entirely shake ourselves from. The same applies to the Costello “Future Fund”, a cynical exercise to hoodwink us mugs into think it was “money in the bank”.

    In the end the only national resource of lasting value is its education base. Everything thing else has a use by date. And hell will freeze over before the private sector takes up that responsibility.

  53. A double assault it seems PJ. Shouldn’t the main attack be on the Liberal States and then the Federal government? If the attack is made at the Federal level then it’s bye bye and a Liberal reign all around, and the social welfare attacks will make what Gillard is doing look like the smallest crumbs indeed.

    Since May, health care and social assistance employment has fallen by 15,000 in Queensland, or around 9%.

  54. PJ, I am not calling you a liar. In fact I have a lot of respect for what you are saying.

    I suspect we are not that far apart.

    What I am saying, it is time we looked at things in a new way. Don’t reject new ideas out of hand, Instead, maybe say, can we make that work.

    I have as much dislike for the word charity, as I do with welfare.

    Yes, I am aware of the the USA experience and I put the Howard government in that school. That is not what I am talking about.

    I have sat in many a case conference of the disabled, where the main aim seems to be, that everyone must work. I am not in that school either. I am not in the business making people perform useless tasks all day.

    Maybe I am having trouble explaining what I mean.

    I am in the business of giving all the opportunity to reach their full potential, through education and training, not welfare. I am talking about putting differences emphasis on what we do,

    Yes, income support is important, while they are being trained and educated. Some take much longer to get there.

    The way we do it now, is wasteful and inefficient. It is simply not productive for the country or the economy. It is the people on welfare, that lose the most.

    PJ, I admit, it takes a completely new mindset, to even contemplate what I am putting forwarded.

    Please do not judge the PM’s effort by those of Howard’s . See if there are some good in what she has to say. Do not reject it outright, without giving it a good look over. There could be some good, that can be worked on.

    To do otherwise, is only handing everything to Abbott and Co on a silver tray.

    .

  55. I will shock all. If I had my way, I would get rid of welfare all together. Yes, pensions the lot.

    I would replace it with two or three decades ago, was called Guaranteed Minimum Income. I believe that there have been different versions since then with different names.

    Yes, everyone would be given enough, that enables them a very basic life style without working. Enough to stop them from starving.

    Therefore all other government support disappears.

    It would be taxed, that immediately would claw back most from the wealthy.

    People would be free to earn as much as they like.

    Surprisingly, I believe the cost of this, would be cheaper than much of the support we have today.,

    It would allow one to drop in and out of the work, to take a rest, or further one’s education etc..

    Just because we do something today, does not mean that is the best we can do,

    .

    ]

  56. “There is no disgrace in supporting the removal of murderous tyrants Like Saddam, Hussein, even if you realise that it could have been done better.” :LOL, that’s got to be your funniest joke yet, Iain. Oh wait, you were *serious*?!?! If that was the real intent of this exercise, then why was it so heavily downplayed in the lead-up to the war? Why was all the talk about Hussein’s non-existent WMD’s & Terrorist links? Why did Howard say, in a radio interview, that “regime change” was an insufficient justification for war? Oh, maybe its because that, as tyrants go, there were far, far worse in the world at that time-like the President of Egypt, Libya, Syria. The rulers of Saudi Arabia, North Korea & Burma-just to name a few. Even the WMD’s & Terrorist links were poor justification, as Saudi Arabia & Iran had more obvious links to terrorism, & Libya, Iran, Syria & North Korea all had the more obvious WMD programs. That’s why the Bush Regime tried to hard to play up Hussein’s non-existent connection to 9/11, whilst doing their level best to downplay the fact that most of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. Now, what Hussein had that none of these other candidates for invasion had was the 3rd largest reserves of oil in the world-oil that they were threatening to sell in Euros rather than US dollars. Oh, that & a leader that George Dubya was utterly obsessed with!

  57. Yep, supporting Gillard’s policy to cut welfare to mothers and you’ve been called out. Then you come out with some uncosted Utopian policy that belongs with Marcus at the bottom of the garden.

    At least someone here has a clue about what is going down in Labor.

  58. No scaper. Just my own ideas, that I have picked up over the years. Better than the trash you come out with. One thing for sure, if one is to go on with what you write here, it will be well and truly above your understanding.

    How about a little policy from you. Are you capable, or do you have any.

    I do not expect anyone to agree with what I say. What I am interested in what they think.

    Get people thinking laterally, looking for new ways of doing things. Want to get people to look forward, where we are going, not where we have been.

    No scaper, it might surprise you, I am not that much interested in being right or wrong. It is just ideas, that I am throwing into the mix.

    I thought that is what this blog was about.

    Come in spinner, with some ideas of your own., something that you think will make things better.

    ,

  59. No scaper, I have not been called out. It is not good to allow single mothers to spend their lives on welfare. Not good for them, the children or society.

    There are better ways of doing it. Yes, I think you will find the PM has put a lot of support in place.

    You once again have it wrong.

    I noticed that some woman have replied to what I have said, in a positive manner.

  60. If you think your ideas are so good then send them to the Labor Party. They could do with a laugh.

    Being a rusted on you have no concept of lateral thinking.

    Still laughing at your Abbott went to Afghanistan on quick notice.

    Don’t like single mothers, do you! Give us your savant reasoning why once a child turns eight the mother is no longer needed to nurture.

  61. scaper. You must believe these women will be better off under Abbott. He has already said he will tighten up the goal, and it will be back to mutual obligation.

    A system where all the obligations were on the part of the unemployed.

    Back to the fail work for the dole. Yes, he will make life better for those who are vulnerable.

    It was his government that took away the welfare for those with children over seven. There were a handful that fell through his net.

    The Gillard Government, in the name of fairness that blocked that hole.

    . All are treated the same now,

    One needs to get the story straight, before one makes criticism.

    Not that facts, or inconvenient truths worry you scaper. Has not in the past.

    scaper. I am aware that many Labor people find it hard to like what is occurring under labor at this time.

    It saddens me, as they said they same thing about Keating, with equal hatred.

    Many now understand that most of what he did, was not against Labor philosophy.

    Yes, I am very interested in challenging the perceptions, many that are just plain wrong.

  62. CU maybe we closer I don’t know. But what I do know this, and in keeping with the point of Mobius Ecko.Indeed the main fight is with the opposition. Labor cannot afford to bleed more votes because of changes to the social welfare act, no matter how well intentioned that is. Cemeteries across Australia are full of men and women who fought for what we take for granted. It should not go unnoticed, that the Pilbera in W.A. has a Liaberal member, an area not to long ago was a Labor party stronghold. The Labor party has pulled some boners in the past this is just one of them.

    Any changes that effect votes should not be undertaken lightly. Most people on social welfare don’t have notions of what we are on about here, they’re worrying about putting food on the table, paying the rent..

    Mobius Ecko I am the last person to warn about an Abbott government. I am old enough to know better. Conservatives could give a flying fuck about the poor, and the working class that vote for them are (in good grace and any apologies) mentally retarded, stupid, imbeciles, fuck wits, I could go on. I hate the bastards and everything they’re about.They are liars,schemers and would sell their own mothers to get into government, and what they perceive to be their rightful place.

    You know during the wharf dispute I was down on the barricades, I kid you not at 1 a.m in the morning on the last day, a forty four gallon drum was kicked off a truck at one of the gates, full of pick handles. This was the thin end of the wedge, again Labor men and women prepared for the worst on principle.There was a maths professor there, seventy years old who said ” What are they going to do to me at my time of life”A lot of the worlds media was there, BBC etc. The government didn’t want it to become a riot and recorded for posterity. It was going to show the world the W.A. police was just a tool of the government.

    They can, if it does not help the poor and the under privileged in our society, stick their social welfare changes up their arse .Fucking oath I’m passionate about it.

  63. I am a socialist and proud of that tradition, I am not going to see all the gains made by that tradition in the Labor movement, lost by a load of catchy by words and actions that are in keeping with conservative ideology. Most here want to see a Gillard victory at the next election, the thought of a load of left over medieval bully boys running Australia fills me with shock horror. If you think that the Gillard platform is being well received you are wrong.I know for a fact that a lot of Labor party members handed in their cards over Gillards changes to the age limit on single mums with kids. Do your own research. Labor is bleeding votes.

    I stand with you comrade and the further the conservatives drag the party to the right, the less relevant the party becomes. I have the honor of being before the disputes committee @ Sussex street with the expressed mission to have me expelled for investigating the branch stacking of Rosendale and soon to be criminal and now Packer stooge Arbib, LOWEST Treacherous DOG IN THE PARTY for mine.

    Gillard is no more moving away from welfare than the fiberals are telling the truth. It’s just window dressing to an ideology driven from the right and media, which is I must admit indistinguishable from the fiberals.

    I say again unfortunately it is over for Gillard.

    I totally disagree, she will win the next election. Tony Abbott is unelectable. Truth will prevail.

    scaper of the barrel..
    December 16, 2012 @ 6:35 pm

    Oh dear, CU tries to do policy…a unicycler.

    At least he has the seat on you inconsequential troll. Please feel free to fuck off at any time.

    CU..its simple. Welfare is there for people who need it, not the life of Riley. We are fucking outrageously unorganised in this country. Too much dumping the elderly outa site and mind, Chilcare has turned into a industry rather than a community. Look at ABC. The corporates should step up to the plate like they do everywhere else in the civilised world. No incentive is the problem with welfare dependence. If chilcare is affordable then working is a joy for mum and the kid.

    Marcus
    December 16, 2012 @ 6:29 pm
    Marcus, why bother. Iian’s hide of ignorance is impervious to reason. Fact is his kryptonite. Don’t do his research for him, just ask him to back up or shut up and watch the Bolt quotes ooze like pus from the boil on the ass of the Australian political landscape that is the fiberal party.

    All these right wing trolls just want to be seen in a Blog of intelligent consequence. They are low brow attention whores. They serve no other purpose than self-promotion riding on the Coat tails of Migs and the other fine contributors to this community.

  64. Don’t hold back, PJ. A sad day when the champions of the disadvantaged turn on the very people that depend on their support.

    They are now openly defying Gillard and Swan, even the Whip is saying that the surplus is a fantasy.

  65. send them to the Labor Party. They could do with a laugh.

    As I recall someone called Tony Mack sent a proposal to establish a new city in the centre of Australia, somewhere near Tennant Creek. He hoped to attract settlers who would arrive by fast train and make use of very fast broadband. LOL. He also had this proposal to water Perth by running the water from the Ord ‘down hill’. Look on a map, the Ord is above Perth. Shakes head..

    People are still laughing. I believe the city was to be called Crapperville.

    And no need to mention the other hare brained (or should that be hair brained) proposals that have surfaced over the year.

    Still describes himself as a CEO of a political p.arty

  66. scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 7:24 pm

    Don’t hold back, PJ. A sad day when the champions of the disadvantaged turn on the very people that depend on their support.

    Seriously fuck off dog. Your a right wing troll what would you know about struggle and social equality? Go and join Phoney Tony’s work for the dole green army, I’m sure it will be popular when they lose the election.

  67. ” I stand with you comrade and the further the conservatives drag the party to the right, the less relevant the party becomes.”

    Well I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing the move to the right by the Labor party.

    As for Gillard, I hope you are correct. (not right I hate the pun) I can’t see it.

    They have thrown so much mud at this women, it’s getting hard to separate fact from fiction. Oh and don’t get me wrong I think she is the best thing since sliced bread.

    Yes about the fiddlers in the party, I would would have them shot. But we are a long way yet from the revolution comrade. Maybe in another life mines just about over. But if it happens and you need a marksman I’m an x digger..I wont lose a minutes sleep pulling the trigger or a lever..

  68. scaper, do you read what people say, or just cherry pick words out of them.

    ]

    1965 at 23 I had and kept a daughter, that was born out of wedlock. Keeping the baby was unusual at that time.

    We can thank Mr. Whitlam that bought in the single parents support, that enabled this to change. Mothers started to keep their babies, and the likes of St Antony’s was emptied of babies for adoption in record time.

    I went back to work when my baby was one year old. No formal; childcare but the Maltese mother of one of my friends f\cared for my baby.

    I then did the stupidest thing, that I have done in my whole life. I married, mainly because I have brainwashed myself in believing my beautiful daughter needed a father.

    The saving grace of this marriage, I had three more beautiful babies.

    Thirteen years later, after years of abuse, I found myself, once again a single mother.

    It was not so bad, as moved from the Disability pension my ex was on, to Supporting Parents benefits, or whatever it was called. During my marriage, I had worked for most of the time. It was what kept me sane.

    For the next four or five years, I worked what casual work I could find ,Attended Uni and stayed on benefits, that went up and down with my income. There was an anomaly at the time that allow me to collect the pension and TEAS. I would not have been able to do what I did, if not for this fact.

    The only family support I have was a father, who was forty when he had me. Yes it was hard.

    I could have gone down another path at the time, in fact I did move onto the widows pension, which I could have kept long after the kids left home. I know many that did. I do not envy their lives in any way.

    No scaper, I you are wrong, I feel for any mother left to struggle on her own.

    I know what they are up against.

    By the way, I will not bore you with some of the work I took on during that time. It was wide and varied, much hard and dirty. We survived., My kids did not
    go without.

    I have seen the opportunities that were available for my granddaughter, I have seen her take up the chances of education that were available I have seen the childcare support she got, to go down this path., She jumped at the chance.

    She is now married to the father of her babies, and now has four. In fact she marries twice. Once in Samoa, and a few weeks ago in Sydney.

    No scaper I would keep to subjects you have some knowledge of.

    I am taking nothing back of what I have said.

  69. Ah, dragged out another keyboard coward of a dubious mental state.

    Hey Ricky, is that how you talk to people you don’t agree with, face to face? I doubt it as you wouldn’t have the guts…COWARD!

  70. PJ, was not near the wharfies but I was on Cockatoo many times, day and night during the Cockatoo strike, The one that went on for months. Spent much time in the Painter and Dockers rooms. Mr., Beasley was not so liked at that time.

    Only been a part of Left wing branches, though I am not so sure how one would have described Cabbamatta at the time with John Newman. Before that, it was Guildford and Granville,

    I have seen many changes, but never have I lost faith in Labor. One must allow for the times changing, It is a different world tpday.

  71. P.J.
    December 16, 2012 @ 7:30 pm

    Well I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing the move to the right by the Labor party.
    Yes its rather unfashionable at the moment, they seem to tar everyone with a social conscience as socialist which apparently is communism? Bad education I suspect.

    As for Gillard, I hope you are correct. (not right I hate the pun) I can’t see it.
    They have thrown so much mud at this women, it’s getting hard to separate fact from fiction.
    Oh and don’t get me wrong I think she is the best thing since sliced bread.

    She is tough and a great negotiator. She is made of Stern stuff and holds to principals. I admire that. None of the shit will stick because it is all strting to unravel now. the fiberals are digging a big black hole, just like their economics and policy.

    Yes about the fiddlers in the party, I would would have them shot.

    Cut out the Rot and start again… expulsion from the party and criminal charges. There is a reason this is happening whilst OFarrel’s (1 billion behind the couch Libs) is in power..wink wink.

    Oh and while I’m at it…Fuck off Douche Scraper.

  72. Please, where and when did I say the platform has been well received, I think I was acknowledging it is not, as strongly, as I can. What I am saying the perception could be wrong..

    What I am saying, it might not be as many perceive, ,

    How many are aware of what has gone through both houses in the last two and half years. There has been much good done, that is not in the public perception., Much indeed.

    Most seem to have a picture of a bumbling, ineffective and inefficient PM.

    The truth is the opposite, The lady is an excellent manager and negotiator that has achieved much.

  73. Ricky the party has withstood troubles before, it will again, it will always rise like the Phoenix. I was speaking to a union heavy weight last week, they are well aware of the ” Agent Provocateurs ” in the party. They have always been there.

    The low life’s that use it to get on, are well known.

    I am sure it is the same for both party’s.

    But should I live to be a hundred I will never understand the working class supporting the conservative side of politics , and they do, sad but true…

    As an aside when I first got married my wife and I lived in a council flat, state housing. Next door was a family who couldn’t find five cents to scratch their own blue arses with, and there in living colour in their front garden a picture/placard of a Liberal party member.Yep, the whole family was like something out of the Beverly Hillbillies but with a lower i.q. Go figure. I never will.

  74. Please be aware that he is dangerous. If believed, he’s had lots of punch ups on building sites. All documented on the ‘net’ if one chooses to look.

  75. Ricky, most already lose the pension when the child turns that age. It happened under Howard.

    scaper a majority of parents that worked seem to manage to nurture their children.

    What is the percentage of stay at home mums with kids over seven, In fact, what id the percentage with younger children.

    After all, they are saying, get an education or go to work.

    We will assist you with either. Does not sound that tough to me.

  76. ” Yes its rather unfashionable at the moment, they seem to tar everyone with a social conscience as socialist which apparently is communism? Bad education I suspect”

    Conservatives know, well some of them anyway, calling some bastard a commo is a vote winner. This is especially relevant among immigrants from places like Rumania. They have sampled communism/ totalitarianism first hand and find it hard to see the difference..

    Yep education. Some dude on another thread tried to tell me the NAZI’S were socialists because, now dig this, it was in the name of the party. Nationalist rah rah rah. He was convinced. The fact is, it is accepted dogma by just about every historian that breathes, or indeed dead, Nazi’s were right wing fascists. .Iain Hall thinks they’re communists LMDRO.

  77. Scaper, I know this has has been said before, that not all conservatives are stupid, but most people who are stupid are conservative.

    I’m afraid you do rather seem to fit the latter. May you remain blissfully ignorant. I’m sure it will go unremarked in the company you keep.

  78. PJ from my reading the socialists and Nazis were bitter enemies in Germany during the early 1930s and violent street fighting became the norm.

  79. MJ, you fall into the category of if a person does not agree with me he is against me and thus must be right wing.

    You talk of left and right as some sort of species. A fair proportion of the population does not identify themselves as either. Talk about blissful ignorance!

  80. scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 6:19 pm Douch Scraper enters the debate and adds nada……
    More back peddling.

    scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 6:35 pm Douch Scraper again adds nothing and pays out on CU

    Oh dear, CU tries to do policy…a unicycler.
    scaper…

    December 16, 2012 @ 6:42 pm Douch Scraper attempts a gotcha and adds nothing to the debate. NOTE: “Costed” we never seen a costed policy reference from him ever…. “Utopean” like totalitarian ..big words of rhetorical helium. Then a classic… at least an old Labor man knows what is going on in :Labor..like he has any idea. NADA……
    .
    Yep, supporting Gillard’s policy to cut welfare to mothers and you’ve been called out. Then you come out with some uncosted Utopian policy that belongs with Marcus at the bottom of the garden.
    At least someone here has a clue about what is going down in Labor.

    scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 7:07 pm Douch Sraper adds nothing but antagonism using terms like rusted on, an irrational statement about lack of nurturing and again adds NADA.\ whilst defending Abbott. Is rude, dismissive and antagonistic whilst again adding nothing to the debate

    If you think your ideas are so good then send them to the Labor Party. They could do with a laugh.

    Being a rusted on you have no concept of lateral thinking.
    Still laughing at your Abbott went to Afghanistan on quick notice.
    Don’t like single mothers, do you! Give us your savant reasoning why once a child turns eight the mother is no longer needed to nurture.

    scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 7:24 pm Douch Scraper tries the ols empathise line with PJ and implies that the architects of the NDIS and most social reform are the bad guys, footnotes Surplus, decent and more rhetorical lies….Adds NADA

    Don’t hold back, PJ. A sad day when the champions of the disadvantaged turn on the very people that depend on their support.
    They are now openly defying Gillard and Swan, even the Whip is saying that the surplus is a fantasy.

    scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 7:28 pm Calls me a coward when I point out he adds nothing and is a faceless antagonistic troll so he calls me a totalitarian.
    Hey Ricky, your totalitarian bib is showing. I prefer to stick around and expose gutless runts like you for what you are…a keyboard coward!

    scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 7:40 pm Again NADA
    Ah, dragged out another keyboard coward of a dubious mental state.
    Hey Ricky, is that how you talk to people you don’t agree with, face to face? I doubt it as you wouldn’t have the guts…COWARD!

    A coward is not armed with facts, your the troll. A self important political parroting pygmy who is not here to debate, your an attention whore who likes to be seen in a popular blog. You add nothing You don’t debate, What do I do to people like you in public? I state facts and demolish lies and smear embarrassing you into cowardly rhetorical corner most liars paint themselves into. You by virtue of your posts are revealed as a loudmouthed bullshit artist’s. So again please feel free to fuck off.

  81. The scarper having experience of being a single mother, going through the welfare system makes no sense.

    So my life’s experiences count for nothing.

    I was a single parent, who has what was called a bastard in 1965. 15 years later after marriage and three more children. Found myself there again.

    During much of marriage relying on welfare, which was beyond my control. Working much of the time for wages at least three quarters of men.

    Yes, scaper, what would I know.

    I; know because of the government assistance at the time, I was able to dig myself out of that hole,

    How many of those making negative comments have ever been single mothers.

    How many have had to rely on welfare to survive.

    How many of you have had to rely on welfare to survive.

    How many women will be affected by the new regulations,

    I am lecturing no one. Everyone is entitled to their own views, scaper, something you do not seem to believe.

    I have a daughter who is a single mother with a nine year old and 12. She seems to cope OK working., In fact it would not enter her head, to live on one.

    In her case, she probably could manage, as her ex husband is very generous when it comes to the kids.

    This is a stupid argument, when most families have both parents working from when the kids are very young.

    My other daughter works most days from home. Yes, she lives with the father. The kids are four and six. Has done so, since the eldest was born.

    Forgot, I have a Diploma in Welfare and Degree in social science. Worked in disabilities and then as District Officer in Docs (NSW). So have some idea of how people live.

  82. Ricky, I’m starting to feel that you are getting angry with me. Must have hit the spot when I called you a keyboard coward. The truth cuts the deepest, lol!

  83. el gordo
    December 16, 2012 @ 8:20 pm

    PJ from my reading the socialists and Nazis were bitter enemies in Germany during the early 1930s and violent street fighting became the norm.

    Absolutely correct elgordo…the socialists and the communists were the first in the concentration camps after those bloody and deadly skirmishes. Nazism, hijacked the term Socialist. They were in fact the opposite of socialism, a far right bourgeois hotch potch of delusional racist idealism steeped in aryan superiority.

  84. “CU I am a member of a union a retired member, but never the less a member. I go to the meetings”

    PJ I am curious. I did research on a group in NSW called CRUMA, an association of retired union members. Was sponsored by the union movement, if my memory is correct..

    That was thirty years ago. Used to go to some meetings with an old friend, They did a lot of good, and I congratulate you for keeping involved.

    Do not know if it still exists, or may have had a name change.

  85. So scaper goes into the old being able to read peoples moods through a computer screen as a way of denoting his superiority.

    The “I’ve hit a spot” is one of the oldest online power ploys known and is done by those who have nothing, are nothing and usually is a projection of their own inferiority in the discussion.

    Note the times scaper has been “hit in the spot” and flies off into an online rage, whilst Ricky just goes on stating facts.

    And now from scaper comes the abuse.

  86. Douche scaper…
    December 16, 2012 @ 8:34 pm

    Ricky, I’m starting to feel that you are getting angry with me. Must have hit the spot when I called you a keyboard coward.

    The truth cuts the deepest, lol!

    See there you go using the word truth again..you have no understanding of the concept.

    What spot? you say nothing, that’s my point your a vacuous nobody, like the guy at the back of my camera shot trying to get his mug in….I’m not angry..just pointing out a FACT a concept that eludes trolls like you.

    Mangrove Jack
    December 16, 2012 @ 8:14 pm

    Scaper, I know this has has been said before, that not all conservatives are stupid, but most people who are stupid are conservative.

    I’m afraid you do rather seem to fit the latter. May you remain blissfully ignorant. I’m sure it will go unremarked in the company you keep.

    See Mangrove Jack is an intelligent pragmatic man. I’m not alone. Jack I bet he’s a real hit at his local club, till an educated person dwarfs his monolie with fact. PS: Hope to wet a line next week up north, tight lines.

    Catching up
    December 16, 2012 @ 8:36 pm

    PS Worked mostly in the South Western Suburbs of Sydney. Have some idea of poverty first hand.

    Well CU that the thing about being broke. Once you have been there you never forget it and it changes your sense of empathy toward fellow Australians.

  87. Möbius Ecko
    December 16, 2012 @ 8:46 pm

    So scaper goes into the old being able to read peoples moods through a computer screen as a way of denoting his superiority.

    The “I’ve hit a spot” is one of the oldest online power ploys..

    Obviously I have because, like Iian, he don’t read back his own posts. It is apparent he has and realises he is embarrassingly fact-less and pointless. Not unlike Hokeys rhetoric on a powering economy.

  88. Douche scaper…Again adds nothing, thinking his comment is witty and cleaver.
    December 16, 2012 @ 8:48 pm

    It seems that the only true Labor person here is PJ.

    Young Labor and in the party at 18, that’s about as real as it gets.

    Now my estimation is you are
    1: Never joined a political party in your life and get all your info from the papers or Bolt and Jones or

    2: Your taking the piss, your a 20 yo young lib.

  89. ” PJ from my reading the socialists and Nazis were bitter enemies in Germany during the early 1930s and violent street fighting became the norm.”

    Absolutely correct, no further debate required here.As a child just after the war I was taken to seed documentary’s on part sorry history. Nazi’s were right wing fascists, there is no dispute there.They are again on the rise in Europe via the skin head mentality and Tea Party morons.

    The Senate in our own country has a couple, no names no pack drill.

    You know them by their deeds.You would know who they are.

    I for the first time in my own living memory have a great fear for what Abbott and co have in store for us should they be elected. As far as I am concerned to use the old cliche ” If you ‘re not part f the solution you’re part of the problem.

  90. Möbius Ecko
    December 16, 2012 @ 8:56 pm

    The future Liberal Party under Abbott, and it’s bad:

    ‘Tea Party’ to whip up a political storm

    Yeah say that Moby. Let me assure you we are ready, locked and loaded for an old queen monarchist and that foot in mouth imbecile beastie boy bernasty. Keep using the term Tea party, it was like the kiss of death to Romney.

  91. Wow found out another corrupt thing Mal Brough did during the NTER.

    One of the claims most often made by Mal Brough before and during the NTER was that organised paedophile rings were rife throughout Aboriginals communities. Even when the findings came out that though there was widespread abuse, and that had already been known, there were no organised paedophile groups, Brough continued to state their were,

    It was a deliberate ongoing propaganda campaign by him to demonise the Aboriginals. Well it seems his staff went much further.

    Mal Brough’s staffer’s voice was presented as a Youth Worker in his Mutitjulu pedophilia ring claims, which was exposed.

  92. C.U. union membership is open to all retired members that I am aware of. I am paying back dues that other people won for me. CRUMA is not known to me being in W.A.

    The old hackneyed cliche still stands today

    ” United we stand divided we fall “

  93. Scaper @7.56pm and,

    Toot toot, sock puppet!

    And scaper gets it wrong yet again. Law 101, never make assumptions unless you are certain of the answer.

  94. PJ, I have looked but cannot seem to find it. It was a long time ago. Did good work thought. Got me high marks at uni.

    scaper, not all Labor people agrees on everything.

    The biggest lie during the intervention was that these rings existed and the the territory government was doing nothing to deal with the matter.

    The examples they were using, and blasting across the media, where all cases that had been dealt with in court. It the NT was not doing its job, how did they get into the courts,

    I read lately that the truth was worse than that. There is evidence that the action taken was already working and the numbers were on the way down, before the intervention.

    In fact the intervention itself could have led to more children being placed at risk. People in the community would have been reluctant tp put anyone in. Remember that he wanted all the kids examined for sexual abuse, Thasmk god the doctors refused that request.

  95. Transcript of the terrible Burke/Bishop interview where as you can see by the title the subjects were everything but Bishop’s direct lie and Ashbygate. Emmerson has been challenging Bishop the Younger on Twitter to do a 15 minute interview explaining her lie and role in Ashbygate along with the other Liberals. Bishop came up with this awfully staged fluff interview.

    ABC 24 Weekend Breakfast

    Subjects: Connecticut shootings, Fiji, Bob Carr, Julia Gillard, Palestinian Observer Status vote, Syria, foreign aid budget

  96. ‘I for the first time in my own living memory have a great fear for what Abbott and co have in store for us should they be elected.’

    Fear not, this is a fully functioning democratic state, not Germany in the middle of economic depression.

  97. “Give us your savant reasoning why once a child turns eight the mother is no longer needed to nurture” …. no longer needed, mm…. so all of a sudden Mums disappear Scaper…… what about already working Mums , kids go to school, Mum to work, kids home before mum, Mum a couple of hours later, a generailisation I know, so is that what you mean by Mum not being there to nurture…… so working Mums are bad Mums by your reasoning Scrapster…… savant enough for ya, .. what a Galah ya are 😀

  98. “Fear not, this is a fully functioning democratic state, not Germany in the middle of economic depression.”

    So was Germany, I believe, before Hitler came along. They even elected him, I also believe.

    Democracy is fragile. Democracy always needs to be defended.

    That is why Justice Rare;s judgment is so important. The conventions of our system need to be defended.

  99. ” PJ, we need to remember that, even if sometimes we disagree. United we stand.”

    Amen to that.

    el gordo, I know that you are taking the proverbial piss at times, But! We are indeed functioning, we can apart from the odd home invasion by some crim with evil intent sleep in our beds at night safely in the knowledge unless we sleep walk, we will be there in the morning. But we are far from being a democracy. Dr Haneef and David Hicks are testement to how fragile that democracy can be. Yes alls well that ends well. But that has more to do with the dissidents that spoke up for Haneef & Hicks relentlessly than any notion of democracy.But you stay in your childish fantasy world because with out people like you , it would be boring as bat shit.

  100. Here is your chance to tell them what you want,

    Treasurer Wayne Swan is calling for ideas for next year’s federal budget.

    Treasurer Wayne Swan on Sunday invited individuals, families, businesses and community groups to make submissions on the 2013-14 budget.

    ‘For the 2012-13 budget, I received over 270 submissions which gave me a really valuable insight into the challenges and opportunities facing individuals, businesses and other groups from right across our community,’ the treasurer said in a statement.

    ‘I encourage Australians to have their say by submitting their ideas for the 2013-14 budget because the views contained in these submissions are a vital part of the development of government policies.’

    Submissions should be sent to Treasury’s Budget Policy Division or emailed to prebudgetsubstreasury.gov.au no later than January 31.

    The budget will be handed down on May 11.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/12/16/Govt_calls_for_budget_ideas_from_public_827149.html

  101. Yep education. Some dude on another thread tried to tell me the NAZI’S were socialists because, now dig this, it was in the name of the party. Nationalist rah rah rah. He was convinced. The fact is, it is accepted dogma by just about every historian that breathes, or indeed dead, Nazi’s were right wing fascists. .Iain Hall thinks they’re communists LMDRO.

    Australian example: A conservative party that calls itself Liberal.

  102. ” Australian example: A conservative party that calls itself Liberal ”

    Good point, I never did give that much thought until the Nazi party got thrown in the mix.

  103. I can’t believe Bishop is proud to put it on her website, it’s a disgrace.

    I can. It’s like a Moose head on a wall. Another journo, property of the LNP. We will decide what questions you ask, and the manner in which you ask them.

    Bourke, who as far as I a was concerned, was already a liberal party hack, has just exposed herself to be a hack down to the level of ulman, not just a hack, but a truly talentless one.

  104. P.J.
    December 16, 2012 @ 11:13 pm
    Dr Haneef and David Hicks are testement to how fragile that democracy can be.

    Don’t forget Julian Assange..typically left to rot overseas by weak political will. Aussie politicians are afraid of offending American’s, and more intent on ass kissing. Jullian, an Australian citizen has been left for dead….

  105. ” Australian example: A conservative party that calls itself Liberal ”

    Actually read the history of the Liberal Party and when they started they were liberals. Their values as espoused in their constitution would do the Labor Party proud, and some of them are still espoused in their current constitution but with the modern Liberals their espoused values are propaganda nonsense, they haven’t adhered to them in many decades.

    The Liberals if they were honest would be better off aligning their name to the Nationals, but then we know that honesty and the Liberals are an anathema.

  106. ME, are you suggesting the Nationals, previously known as the Country party no longer wag the dog tail, but have become the dog. How interesting.

    Where do true Liberals go, I wonder.

  107. No Cu, I’m saying that the Liberals would be better off calling themselves the National Party, it would be more honest.

    The Nationals are slowly dying a death of a thousand cuts anyway as in every election an increasing number of Liberals are contesting the same seats and gradually either an Indie or Liberal, and sometimes even Labor, wins them.

    As much as they chest thump, crow about their independence and brag about their influence on Liberal Party policy, they are toothless and clawless dinosaurs going the same way as the dinosaurs. They are kept compliant by being given the Deputy PM and a number of portfolios in excess of the per capita seats they win, which pisses many in the Liberals who miss out on those portfolios.

    If the Nationals wanted to advance they would divorce themselves from Liberals and become a true centre right party, differentiating themselves from the far right the Liberals have become and the radical Tea Party right they are rapidly moving to.

  108. ‘If the Nationals wanted to advance they would divorce themselves from Liberals and become a true centre right party’

    Yes, maybe, if they ditch tabit and adopt talcum, they might split.

  109. Gordon in my experience true country party members as oposed to nationals who are country members are way closer to the center right ofold ALP than the fiberals. Problem with the Nats are they were hijacked by Pitt st farmer’s. The Nats have long since stopped representing the bush. I did some ads for them years ago. Why Luke Hartsuker is on the front bench is astonishing. He is a gold plated knuckle head.

  110. What would Hockey do. I suspect take up the GST option. Would he leave the mining tax in place, and go down the path of widening it.

    THE Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has urged the federal government to consider raising the GST and widening the mining tax, in a bid to shore up the budget’s long-term health.
    In its latest review of the nation’s economy, published on Friday, the Paris-based think tank also gave the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, the green light to delay the return to budget surplus this financial year if the economy deteriorates more than expected.
    With growth in the $50 million-a-year GST slowing due to weaker household spending, the OECD said the tax’s rate of 10 per cent was low compared with other countries.
    As part of a suggested tax overhaul, it urged the government to look at raising the tax’s rate, and removing exemptions for spending on fresh food, medical services and school supplies.
    Advertisement
    It also said the mining tax, which is levied on to coal and iron ore miners, should be broadened to apply to other natural resources, and corporate taxes cut.
    The suggested policies are just a few of the reforms the OECD said Australia needed to consider in order to ensure the economy continues to benefit from Asia’s industrialisation.
    ”Tax reforms, including a lower corporate tax rate, a broader resource rent tax and more efficient state taxes would facilitate ongoing structural adjustments,” it said…………….

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/increase-the-gst-urges-oecd-20121214-2bf5y.html#ixzz2FGzv9k7s

  111. Will common sense prevail. I suspect not. Cannot see the opposition getting off their high horse in this case.

    Was listening into the Human Rights Commission Hearing this more\nbing. Heard one very angry She said, no wonder they say to her and other workers, that getting to Australia is w the way to go. Every day they hear from politicians in this country say the border are open, and all one has to do is get here.

    Yes, every time Mr. Morrison opens his mouth, criticizing and saying what Labor is doing will not work, a few more takes on board his advice and decide the boat journey is worthwhile.

    Another said they are waiting for the first topical storm to wipe all out on the islands.

    I also heard the best explanation for why the boats stop at Howard’s time. Nothing to do with him.

    More to do with the destruction of the two towers. More to do with the numbers stopping in Indonesia, More to do with the fight against terrorism.

    In the meantime, the numbers kept increasing in Indonesia, and I suspect Malaysia a swell. People with nowhere to go, becoming more desperate and I suspect running out of money over time.

    ..Over the shorter term, the OECD said Australia was weathering the aftermath of the global financial crisis well, and its public finances were in ”much better shape” than most developed countries. However, it said the government should abandon its pledge to promise to deliver a surplus of $1.1 billion in 2012-13 if the economy weakened more than expected.
    The comments come amid reports Treasury has advised the government to abandon its return to surplus this year, after figures showed weakening growth and a decline in national income.
    Market economists also say the government should be prepared to ditch its surplus pledge, which will require a budget tightening equal to 3 per cent of the economy in one year.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/increase-the-gst-urges-oecd-20121214-2bf5y.html#ixzz2FH1ott7J

    In spite of all the evidence to the contrary, I believe all we will continue to get from Hockey and Co is the lies and mistruths we have had up to now.

  112. Yes, every time Mr. Morrison opens his mouth, criticizing and saying what Labor is doing will not work, a few more takes on board his advice and decide the boat journey is worthwhile.

    What a disgusting thing to say. It was the ALP which broadcast to the whole world that they were doing away with Howards Pacific Solution. I do not think there are too many people who do not know that.

    But CU, go ahead and blame everyone except the ALP.

    The worst thing is that 30,000 refugees in camps have been denied a place in Australia because 30,000 people have come here by boat since the ALP was elected.

  113. It is the opposition encouraging the smugglers Neil. They were asked many times to work with the government but refused every time, instead loudly calling out to all who would listen that the borders were open and the boats free to come.

    It is the opposition who stopped the Malaysia solution that may have a good chance of working and it is the opposition’s solution that is currently in place and failing.

    Those 30,000 would have come if Howard had remained in power, something he already knew and had geared up for.

    Here comes the usual Neil denial, obfuscation and sidetracking away from the recent failures and corrupt actions of the worst opposition this country has ever known.

  114. It is the opposition who stopped the Malaysia solution

    The Greens opposed it to. But you cannot be serious?? Sending women and children who have come here for help to Malaysia where they are likely to be caned and then broadcast them going to Malaysia on Youtube.

    The “Malaysian Solution” is an obscenity.

    And CU is wrong (again). It is the ALP who broadcast to the world that our borders are porous. And the ALP did it bragging about how moral and good they are. Much better than the nasty Conservatives.

    “and it is the opposition’s solution that is currently in place and failing.

    No it is not. Got to also introduce TPV’s and turn the odd boat back.

    Labor is finding it is easy to condemn when in Opposition but in govt they havn’t a clue.

  115. Oh get off it Neil.

    You have just proved you know nothing at all about the Malaysia solution or the regional framework that was to be worked on by the government, thrown out by the opposition, who are praying for the boats to keep coming as it’s all they have left in their woeful limp arsenal to attack the government with.

    Abbott wants to send them back to Indonesia which is as bad as Malaysia, read up on it. So don’t come the high and mighty on this one. You nor the right wing give an ounce of concern to these refugees, only that they can be demonised and used to political advantage. Howard was the master of it and spent billions doing it.

    The government to their shame have produced TPVs, in fact a system worse than TPVs, so again you show your utter ignorance in your blind ideological support for the terrible Liberals.

  116. Neil, why not read what I say. It was experts that are working in the field, who is appearing at the Parliamentary Hearing today that said that. Yes, I agree with what they say.

    Neil, instead of coming here, I suggest you tune in. Might learn something.

    What is strange there does not appear be any overbearing Coalition MPs present or asking questions. Maybe they are not interested in facts either. Harry Jensen is chair.

  117. Mobius, shall I say it again? Abbott’s delusion/lie about turning the boats back will not happen..so the right whingers can immediately stop wanking themselves getting all excited when they think that Abbott will punish those nasty people trying to escape persecution.

    Why will it not happen..at least not without some major international incident? It’s because the Indonesians have TOLD the opposition, both Abbott and J. Bishop that they will NOT be accepting any returns and will take it very seriously should Australian forces attempt to do so.

  118. Also Min the total furphy of the proviso Abbott made in “safe to do so”. There will not be one occasion where it will be safe to tow back a boat and he knows it.

    This is another false beating stick like all the others they have attempted, and like all the others it will turn out to be more falsehoods from the greatest bunch of liars this country has seen.

  119. It’s because the Indonesians have TOLD the opposition, both Abbott and J. Bishop that they will NOT be accepting any returns

    I believe they said the same thing when Howard was in power. Howard did it anyway.

    Neil, why not read what I say.

    I read what you said. No blame at all to the most wondrous ALP who dismantled Howards border control but all blame to the Coalition. Furthermore nobody in the whole world heard that the most wonderful and righteous ALP was dismantling Howards Pacific Solution (except all the people smugglers and the refugees)

  120. I believe they said the same thing when Howard was in power. Howard did it anyway.

    Wrong Neil.

    Talking of blame. Where is condemnation of the lies and corruption of the judicial process by the Liberals with Abbott up to his neck in it?

    You’re a hypocrite Neil plain and simple and you are trying to deflect from the massive failings of your beloved Liberals right now by putting out falsehoods on the refugees, using them as a beating stick just as the Liberals do.

    Shame on you.

  121. Fr. Brendan signed off with the comment, the one thing we can do without, is the static that is coming from both houses. Yes, I believe we can,

    We can listen to what all are saying today. Not blame laying or shrill screams of only we can do it.

    Another one that will upset Neil, I am afraid. Sorry Neil.

    I know you believe it is not fair to attack Tony and his ilk, but Labor is fair game.

    Sorry, but my problem is I agree with the Treasurer. Believe more are coming to the same place.

    Treasurer Wayne Swan has labelled Tony Abbott a ”thug” and a policy ”weakling” as the Opposition Leader recorded the second highest disapproval rating for an opposition leader in 40 years.
    In the last Fairfax/ Nielsen poll of the year, Mr Abbott’s disapproval rating has risen three points to 63 per cent – the second highest for an opposition leader in the poll’s 40-year history – while nearly two-thirds of those aware of the issue were critical of how he handled the AWU slush fund affair.
    ”We’ve got an opposition leader who is a policy weakling and of course a thug when it comes to personal attacks,” Mr Swan told reporters in Canberra on Monday.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/swan-attacks-abbott-with-poll-20121217-2bi6y.html#ixzz2FHMca41n

  122. “Treasurer Wayne Swan has labelled Tony Abbott a ”thug”

    It is the govt that is setting the tone of the debate by making comments like this.

  123. No Neil, I said experts that are working in the field are saying that. Yes, I do agree with them, as it fits in with the facts.

    These people are far from apologists for Labor. They just seem 6o dislike the coalition more at this time.

    Yes, Neil it would benefit you to listen.

  124. It is the govt that is setting the tone of the debate by making comments like this.

    ROFL

    After 2 years of ‘Ditch the Witch’, it’s too late to say that Labor are ‘setting the tone.

    They are just (finally) fighting back. The tone was set years ago.

  125. Neil, some find the history and the blame game fun, Trouble is that it does not solve what is occurring today. It offers no answers.

    Some of us would rather see us moving on, creating a more humane solution.

    Where we are at now is simply not acceptable.

  126. Yes, Tom fighting back can make one feel good, especially when one has right on their side.

    Sorry Neil, it cannot be helped. You must have expected one day, the tide would turn.

    What these people want most of all, is a queue. This can only occur under the Bali Group, in creating a regional solution.

    The use of the two islands was only meant to be a stopgap measure while the rest was put in place. Yes, that includes the Malaysian Soultion.

    Mr. Carr is spending time in Sri Lanka, working on new structures to slow down the flood of boats from that country.

  127. I would say, the Slipper conspiracy would not even be showing up yet in the figures.

    THE AWU slush fund attack appears to have backfired on the opposition, driving Tony Abbott’s popularity to historic lows. But the Coalition would still easily win a federal election, according to the latest Herald/Nielsen poll.
    The poll shows Labor holding, but not building on, its end-of-year political recovery – trailing the Coalition 52 per cent to 48 in two party-preferred terms.
    Of the 75 per cent of voters who said they were aware of the AWU allegations about the conduct of the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, when she was a lawyer 20 years ago, 64 per cent said they disapproved of the way Mr Abbott had handled the issue. This included 46 per cent of his Liberal National Party voters.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbotts-handling-of-awu-backfires-20121216-2bhmh.html#ixzz2FHXwcBPY

  128. My emphasis

    …………….The ferocious end-of-year attack over the affair – in which the Coalition was unable to prove allegations of illegal behaviour by Ms Gillard but still demanded she resign – coincides with Mr Abbott’s disapproval rate climbing to 63 per cent, a record for him and the second highest in Nielsen poll history…

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbotts-handling-of-awu-backfires-20121216-2bhmh.html#ixzz2FHgSDKjx

  129. Another bully.

    Back in 2001 Mal Brough demonstrated he does not always feel bound by accepted modes of conduct. He showed he considered his personal interests much more important than agreed process.


    Not what you’d call a great loser

    The occasion was a social cricket match Brough ruined for many by disputing an umpire’s decision in a manner which would have seen him suspended if not expelled from any decent sporting club.

    I was the abused umpire and witnesses to Brough’s inelegant behavior—it went on for hours. I have been reminded of it by last week’s Federal Court decision to dismiss James Ashby’s action against Peter Slipper as an abuse of legal process. Brough was deeply involved in that case.

    It’s possible the splendid people of Fisher, a federal seat on a beautiful stretch of the Queensland coast, will have an ugly choice to make next election.

    It could be between Peter Slipper, should he stand again, and Brough—the disgraced former Speaker against the backroom organiser of a disgraced legal action.

    Mr Slipper’s circumstances are notorious but Brough is a relative unknown, despite having been a minister in the Howard government. The cricket incident told much about his personality, as did the Ashby action.

    The match was Pollies V The Press Gallery, a……………
    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/mal-brough-and-the-art-of-losing-gracefully/

  130. What this PM is doing.

    …………………………..Up to 25,000 low income households could have their power bills reduced under a carbon tax-funded scheme to improve energy efficiency.

    Climate Change Minister, Greg Combet, announced the first 11 recipients of funding from the Low Income Energy Efficiency Program (LIEEP).

    Each of the 11 projects – which will be delivered by groups including the Nature Conservation Council NSW, Environment Victoria and Mission Australia Housing – will attempt to tackle the barriers preventing households from adopting energy efficient measures.

    Mr Combet says the LIEEP is funded by the carbon price, and will enable ‘low income households to find the capital costs to invest in energy efficiency measures and so reduce their energy bills’.

    He said the scheme would target households that have not benefited from previous energy efficiency schemes, such as solar panels on roof tops.

    ‘A lot of people who rent and are on low incomes live in flats and don’t have the opportunity to take advantage of those programs, so we’re looking for ways to deliver to people in a very specific part of the market,’ Mr Combet told reporters in Sydney.

    The 11 Round One recipients will share $39.8 million from the total LIEEP fund of $100 million, with their projects rolled out over the next four years…….

    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=827410

  131. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 2:12 PM
    “Yes, every time Mr. Morrison opens his mouth…

    He puts his foot in it. He is so incredibly incompetent he fits Right into Abbotts band of incompetents. This is the guy who presided over the “Where the bloody hell are ya” campaign, the most disastrous campaign in Australian tourism history, then lost the confidence of the board and was forced to resign or be sacked. The Liberals thought that after this he was a perfect immigration minister….He is a complete imbecile

    Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 3:07 PM
    “It’s because the Indonesians have TOLD the opposition, both Abbott and J. Bishop that they will NOT be accepting any returns”

    I believe they said the same thing when Howard was in power. Howard did it anyway.

    And destroyed the relationship with Indonesia that Abbott says is so “important” Maybe that’s why they were not in the slightest interested in dialogue with him. He is a foreign policy imbecilic sham.

    .Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 3:20 PM
    “Treasurer Wayne Swan has labelled Tony Abbott a ”thug””

    He is by his disgraceful actions this year.. Destroying peoples character with lies, an assault on the democracy of parliament using abuse of process to bully Australians into an election.

    It is the govt that is setting the tone of the debate by making comments like this.

    Miglo
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 3:56 PM
    Neil, Tones set the tone in this country.

    I could not have said it better myself and low brow it remains.

  132. What an incredible year in the carbon market. After one of the worst cases in rent seeking this country will probably ever experience, we finally saw a carbon price introduced. Yet for all the concern about how a carbon price might ruin business, by the end of the year it is the carbon market that is suffering, with prices at record lows in the EU, NZ and CER markets.
    The one piece of good news however appears to be that the scare campaign around an Australian carbon price has been demonstrated to be a complete hoax. Consequently Tony Abbott’s credibility has been badly damaged and in the latest Fairfax-Nielsen Poll he recorded the second highest disapproval in the poll’s history.
    So here’s a look at the last 12 months in Australia’s introductory year of carbon pricing………

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/year-carbon-tax-scare-campaign?utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily

  133. sue, funny no one noticed back in April.

    Are we to believe just one document is affected.

    Experts now called in.

    Sorry, I smell a rat. Computers do not behave like that.

  134. Mangrove Jack

    I was reading the excuse was debunked before the ABC/fairfax ran the LOTO’s assurances.

    And even the msm have Entsch’s confession.

  135. Computers..I don’t know….just received a half dozen emails dated 25 -27/1/2000. Since I’ve only had an email since 2006 they haven’t been floating around.

    Funny thing is, they’re from normal sources.

    I blame Abbott!!!! 😀

  136. Do you use Outlook handyrab? Or perhaps it’s a bigpond email address problem?

    I got several emails dated Jan 2000 on Fri and Sat… The body of the email shows the correct date, but the Received column in Outlook has them received almost 13 years ago…

  137. SPLAT

    sortius 17/12/2012 at 17:24 · Reply →

    I’ve seen the email, & posted the timestamps for the original document, it seems that this explanation is incorrect as the original document does not use “z date” format.

    My research as I do a lot of work in Word.

    The “z” Custom Format Specifier

    With DateTime values, the “z” custom format specifier represents the signed offset of the local operating system’s time zone from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC), measured in hours. It does not reflect the value of an instance’s DateTimeKind property. For this reason, the “z” format specifier is not recommended for use with DateTime values.

    With DateTimeOffset values, this format specifier represents the DateTimeOffset value’s offset from UTC in hours.

    The offset is always displayed with a leading sign. A plus sign (+) indicates hours ahead of UTC, and a minus sign (-) indicates hours behind UTC. A single-digit offset is formatted without a leading zero.

    If the “z” format specifier is used without other custom format specifiers, it is interpreted as a standard date and time format specifier and throws a FormatException. For more information about using a single format specifier, see Using Single Custom Format Specifiers later in this topic.

    The following example includes the “z” custom format specifier in a custom format string.
    C#
    VB

    DateTime date1 = DateTime.UtcNow;
    Console.WriteLine(String.Format(“{0:%z}, {0:zz}, {0:zzz}”,
    date1));
    // Displays -7, -07, -07:00

    DateTimeOffset date2 = new DateTimeOffset(2008, 8, 1, 0, 0, 0,
    new TimeSpan(6, 0, 0));
    Console.WriteLine(String.Format(“{0:%z}, {0:zz}, {0:zzz}”,
    date2));
    // Displays +6, +06, +06:00

    If the original document hasn’t got the z format without a + or – then Abbott is lying.

  138. “Neil, Tones set the tone in this country.”

    I find this hard to believe. Must be the first time a Opposition leader sets the tone. In fact I do not believe it. It is the govt which sets the tone for debate.

  139. Douch scaper…..Insults people and wonder why people consider him a unsightly smear on Julie Bishops undies. He drops an article discredited by every IT professional in the country as totally infeasible.. 10 HOURS OF BULLSHIT
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 6:28 PM
    Hey pants wetters…SPLAT!

    scaper…
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 6:37 PM
    Coming from Mr Gullibility. You have a bad case of Abbottphobia…be scarred son, be very scared. Tool.

    10 HOURS OF BULLSHIT Luddite Troll.

    The document was converted to a PDF so it has embedded info in the server log. If it was emailed, it negotiated a server ticket from the Authentication server and ignores any system clock on the workstation PC.

  140. Perhaps some constructive criticism Ricky?

    I find it very difficult to read your rebuttals of the RWFs here – it’s probably due to my “foggy” brain and reading skills, but perhaps you could consider a formatting change for your posts to make it easier for me (and probably many lurkers out there) to follow your excellent points? 😉

    Maybe make use of some of the tags available to differentiate text?

    Things like:
    <blockquote> </blockquote>
    <i> </i>
    <b> </b>

  141. Bacchus
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 10:00 PM
    Perhaps some constructive criticism Ricky?

    Simply put, any netork that uses MS server with a system clock 10 hors behind would just fall over.
    this is a very good explanation///
    http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=2626

    Format? any post by scraper that s a trolling factless insult will have an appropriate commentary. Its not hear is some information to consider from him..it cop this you left wing loonies. So I will treat this attention seeking “factless” troll with the contempt that he deserves.

  142. “In this case, the local time information was replaced by a ‘z’.

    Sortius answers this query raised in the SMH story scaper linked to.

    I’ve seen the email, & posted the timestamps for the original document, it seems that this explanation is incorrect as the original document does not use “z date” format.

    http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=2626

    I’m not that much of a computer geek that I know much about this area they are discussing, but this Sortius certainly appears to be knowledgeable about it. I read last night on pollbludger that the AFP were getting involved? Anyone know if this is the case?

  143. Don’t worry ME, our media are busy digging deep into tabot

    But that Abbott is at odds with the Tony found elsewhere by Marr. We encounter a minister that staff and bureaucrats described as “admirably polite,” someone who “never explored [cuts] with relish. People find this amazing but he doesn’t seek conflict.” We learn he was devastated that cabinet overturned his “rock-solid, iron-clad” commitment not to lift the Medicare safety-net thresholds, and considered resigning. This fits with the memoirs of the former treasurer Peter Costello, who wrote: “Tony always saw himself as something of a romantic figure, a Don Quixote, ready to take on lost causes and fight for great principles. Never one to be held back by the financial consequences of decisions …”

    http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/12/17/3656062.htm

    Yea, our journos know how to rip a guy to shreds 😉

    Not surprising, considering the source

  144. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 17, 2012 @ 9:21 PM

    “Neil, Tones set the tone in this country.”

    I find this hard to believe. Must be the first time a Opposition leader sets the tone. In fact I do not believe it. It is the govt which sets the tone for debate.

    Cmon Neil, with all that has transpired in 2012, it has been near impossible for the government to talk about policy. They have been sucked into Abbott’s vortex of negative smear and diversionary “I want an election now because I say so” spin.

    “Tones Tone” is attuned in frequency and amplitude to shatter any positive achievements from a government he says Is the worst in Australian history
    A government that has attained economic figures and social programs that are so beyond Abbott’s flat earth thinking and capability of vision, he paints them as heretics to be burned at the stake. He reminds me of the village witch Doctor, all beads, charms and dancing with nothing beyond the snake oil.

    Like the 6 attributes of character you refuse to provide us, maybe you would like to enlighten us with his ministerial policy achievements that he brags about as minister in John Howard’s government is hardly a qualification of competence. Abbott was the worst, unconciliatory and divisive health minister imaginable.

  145. Hey Möbius. I have just realised that wordpress differs from standard HTML slightly. I could not find a list of WordPress blog symbles in the wordpress forums..Can anyone hook me up? cheers 🙂

  146. “Tones Tone” is attuned in frequency and amplitude to shatter any positive achievements from a government he says Is the worst in Australian history

    Quite, Ricky. Luckily “Tones” transmits in a.m. which probably explains why nobody can hear it anymore.

    A totally out-of-phase Abbott govt might make our meters run backwards but. Let’s not be hasty.

  147. Jack tones tones don’t travel too well in a policy vacum. I think he redefines FM to Frequently Mundane. You know what happens when a sine wave is inversely applied to itself…. Nothing “Phrase Cancellation” 🙂

  148. Bacchus
    DECEMBER 18, 2012 @ 1:19 PM

    Cheers Mate
    Thanks Tom I got that.

    Are some of the rules associated with Stylesheets differ from normal HTML or they restrict some of the HTML usage.
    I built a site using WP for my brother. I think I know enough to be confusingly dangerous. … 😮

  149. Cmon Neil, with all that has transpired in 2012, it has been near impossible for the government to talk about policy.”

    So it was Abbott who used Craig Thomson’s HSU credit card for prostitutes?? And it was Abbott who had complete confidence in him.??

    And I thought it was McClelland who brought up Gillards AWU role in parliament. And it was Gillard who got two journalists sacked was it not about the AWU issue?? Can you imagine the outcry if John Howard had arranged for Milne and Smith to lose their jobs??

    And I thought it was Gillard going against sound advice who wanted Peter Slipper speaker.

    It is the ALP govt setting the tone for debate. I think it is wrong for Emerson to call Abbott a thug. It sets the tone for debate.

  150. “So it was Abbott who used Craig Thomson’s HSU credit card for prostitutes?? And it was Abbott who had complete confidence in him.??”

    No charges laid by police.

    :”And I thought it was McClelland who brought up Gillards AWU role in parliament.”

    Another furthy. Neil go back and have a look at what he said.

    :And I thought it was Gillard going against sound advice who wanted Peter Slipper speake”

    As the PM said, one cannot act on allegations and rumour. At this date, that is all we still have.

    He was a good speaker.

    Note, It was Ashby and Bough in the Judges aim last week, not Slipper.

    I will also call Abbott a thug because his actions over the years, have proven him to be one. Action, not rumours or allegations.

  151. “So it was Abbott who used Craig Thomson’s HSU credit card for prostitutes?”

    That would’ve got you star billing at the Salem witch trials Neil.

    That was 300 years ago.

  152. “No charges laid by police.”

    Not the point I was trying to make. It is the govt who is setting the tone. Abbott has nothing to do with HSU, AWU and it was Gillard who chose Slipper to be speaker. You know the guy who sent those e-mails to Ashby.

    “As the PM said, one cannot act on allegations and rumour”

    Slipper was trouble with a capital T. It was Gillards natural poor judgement that caused the problem. Abbott had nothing to do with Slipper being speaker.

  153. But Abbott had everthing to do with Slipper up until that point, including taking his vote to become leader.

    You’re making lame excuses Neil and attempting to divert away from Abbott’s many considerable failures, including having a press release prepared before Ashby went public with his allegation.

    This doesn’t even begin to look at Brough, who Abbott refuses to disendorse.

    Lamely trying to put attention back onto Gillard for no valid reason is nothing more than a diversion and it won’t work. There is a growing momentum for Abbott to be held to account for not only this but his long string of lies and deceptions, and held to account he eventually will be.

  154. Oh come off it Neil, the Liberals came out abusing from the get go starting with Rudd and then really ramping it with Gillard.

    For stuff sake, Abbott did even have the common long held courtesy of calling the PM by their title or name. All past opposition leaders have done that.

    You are engaging in two things, massive projection and another lame attempt at a diversion away from Abbott’s failings, more than that, Abbott’s corruption that should bring him down and rightly so.

  155. You most probably think that calling Abbott a thug is funny to. The ALP is the natural party of abuse and slime. So i do find it funny that Abbott is accused of setting the tone.

  156. My friends would split pretty much 50/50 Liberal/Labor but there’s universal agreement that the word “thug” describes Abbott perfectly.

    We also seem to agree that the word “dill” is equally applicable to Swan.

    I don’t know what planet you live on.

  157. Oh come off your projecting high horse Neil. “Thug” and you call that being abusive and slimy.

    Abbott promotes his thugishness through his manliness and his past actions and words. So don’t try to say Labor is engaging in abuse for using the word thug when the right have levelled far worse against Gillard, and openly so. Not once did Abbott condemn that abuse and in part fostered it by never calling a PM by their title and being so petty in his abuse as to not even call her by her name.

    On the other hand Gillard called Abbott, Mr Abbott at every turn I heard. All Abbott could ever manage was “she.”

  158. nils been on the turps again. Apparently, Gillard has the power to higher and fire anyone she wants

    ROFL

    Here’s a hint nil, they got fired for being shit at their jobs.

    And no, it wasn’t Abbott who used Craig Thomson’s HSU credit card for prostitutes, it was Abbott who declared thatCraig Thomson’s had used HSU credit cards for prostitutes over and over again. Until everyone forgot that they were simply allegations. Much in the same way he declared Slippers guilt, and Gillards.

    I’d recommend reading this, and reflect back on how tabot has behaved these past years.

    Tony Abbott must act to disassociate himself and the Liberal Party from Mal Brough. Brough must be stood down as the LNP’s candidate for Fisher. Anything less condones — and indeed rewards — a key player in a conspiracy against the Speaker of the House that resulted in an abuse of the Federal Court.

    If Tony Abbott is serious about preserving “the integrity of the Government and our institutions”, as he said he was on 21 April, nothing less will suffice.

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/18/abbott-must-sack-brough-over-ashby

  159. Neil

    Abbott had everything to do with Slipper becoming speaker. If Slpper was not endorsed by the LNP at NINE yes 9 consecutive elections, despite chinese whispers about his rorting of allowances, he would not be an MP and therefore unable to be elected speaker. Peter Slipper was in parliament for 7182 days until he resigned as speaker. Your beloved LNP happily accepted him as a member, accepted his vote, accepted his seat and accepted his representation of his electorate for 6863 or 95.36% of his time in parliament. Therefore your beloved party accepted responsibility his actions for 95.36% of his time in parliament before resigning as speaker. For you and your beloved party to blame Julia Gillard for the remaining 319 days or 4.64% of his time in parliament prior to his resignation as speaker for allegations made against him for many years is just a joke. I live in his electorate and the allegations have been mad efor years by the media, yet were always denied and brushed aside until he became speaker. The underhanded tactics and despicable double standards are there for any sensible mainstream unblinkered voter to observe. Now we are lumped with another despicable LNP candidate for the seat of Fisher who has even been mentioned by a Judge for his underhanded tactics.

  160. Neil, you are correct. Not many here like Mr. Abbott and his policies, or maybe I should say, lack of the policies.

    Abbott back from London. Condemning Julia Gillard was wrong in her vote for UN o Israel . Has interrupted, I think 90 years of bipartisan support.

    Supporting Mal.

    Cannot trust this government. The international community now knows they cannot trust this government.. Yesterday discussing this government with someone in London.

    Yes, once again talking down the country, now overseas.

    Maximize benefits in the workforce. Once again a long list of slogans made,, that make little sense in one paragraph,

  161. Neil of Sydney
    December 18, 2012 @ 8:13 pm

    “No charges laid by police.”

    Not the point I was trying to make. It is the govt who is setting the tone. Abbott has nothing to do with HSU, AWU and it was Gillard who chose Slipper

    Nothing?…I think you have post plot denial syndrome….oh what a tangled web we weave. Then again liars love liars.

    You most probably think that calling Abbott a thug is funny to. The ALP is the natural party of abuse and slime. So i do find it funny that Abbott is accused of setting the tone.

    Congratulations on recovering and finally waking from that coma you have been in for the past 18 months……

    PS: Seeing your gullible, can you post your bank details here Nil troll?

  162. Ricky – did you mean?

    Neil of Sydney
    December 18, 2012 @ 8:13 pm

    “No charges laid by police.”

    Not the point I was trying to make. It is the govt who is setting the tone. Abbott has nothing to do with HSU, AWU and it was Gillard who chose Slipper

    Nothing?…I think you have post plot denial syndrome….oh what a tangled web we weave. Then again liars love liars.

    You most probably think that calling Abbott a thug is funny to. The ALP is the natural party of abuse and slime. So i do find it funny that Abbott is accused of setting the tone.

    Congratulations on recovering and finally waking from that coma you have been in for the past 18 months……

    PS: Seeing you’re gullible, can you post your bank details here Nil troll?

    your – belonging to. This is your dog.
    you’re – shortened form of you are. You’re going to town.

    😉

  163. “Abbott had everything to do with Slipper becoming speaker.”

    So it was Abbott who picked Slipper as speaker?? Go to hell Shane. Nobody in the Coalition wanted Slipper as Speaker. But go ahead and blame Abbott.

    “Abbott back from London. Condemning Julia Gillard was wrong in her vote for UN o Israel . Has interrupted, I think 90 years of bipartisan support.”

    CU, I think you will find it was Labor who has interrupted bipartisan support for Israel. Furthermore Gillard was rolled in Cabinet over her support for Israel. I have seen reports where Gillard almost lost the PM job over this issue.

  164. You have seen reports Neil? Would you mind sourcing those reports for us to read or are they the usual once a month Gillard is getting rolled report from the lying MSM?

    The Coalition didn’t want Slipper to be Speaker out of any goodness or moral reasoning. They didn’t want him as Speaker because the government would gain an extra vote, and Abbott instead of being a decent leader giving out alternate policies and frameworks was doing everything dirty and underhanded to bring down a legitimately elected government.

    That was another lie by Abbott Neil in that he called this government illegitimate many times, just as he lies when call asylum seekers illegal, and continues to do so even though he has been picked up on it in interviews and acknowledged his terminology was wrong.

    Again get off your moral high horse Neil. You are backing a morally corrupt and ingenuously bankrupt person who continuously lies and deceives, and in not acknowledging that whilst either ignoring or making excuses for his string of lies and deceits you have no credibility in these debates.

  165. You have seen reports Neil? Would you mind sourcing those reports for us to read”

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gillards-un-vote-backdown-to-save-her-job/story-e6freuy9-1226525284024

    JULIA Gillard’s leadership came close to collapse yesterday after cabinet refused to back her policy to vote against a UN resolution tomorrow to give greater recognition to a Palestinian state. After initially snubbing the majority view of her cabinet colleagues on Monday night, the Prime Minister was only convinced yesterday morning to back down when faced with the threat of ministers voting against her in caucus.

    It is believed to be the first time since Bob Hawke pushed ahead with uranium mining at Coronation Hill in 1991 that a PM had defied recommendations from cabinet.”

  166. Mr. Abbott has had no time to read that document. Note document, not judgement, as he is doing important things in this country for Australians.

    Yes he will stand by his friend his pal. It was noted that at one time he said he would stand by his friend, Mr. Slipper.

    Yep, the Lord Mayor has a lot of interest in this country. Was he a Oxford mate of Abbott.

  167. Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, has boarded the Boris Johnson train of thought as he met the fellow conservative and Mayor of London to hear his take on transport and infrastructure issues.

    The two men met in the English capital, one of a string of meetings for the Coalition Leader during a five-day visit to the UK.

    ‘It was a pleasure to meet Boris Johnson, London’s ebullient and recently re-elected Lord Mayor,’ Mr Abbott said in a statement after the meeting, outlining small business and migration as conversation topics.

    ‘Our meeting was also a chance to talk about the success of the London Olympic Games and (Mr) Johnson’s efforts to improve infrastructure, in particular roads and public transport, something I hope will be a hallmark of a future Coalition Government.’

    Mr Abbott also met Foreign Secretary, William Hague, and Bank of England governor, Sir Mervyn King.

    ‘The discussions with Sir Mervyn focussed on the continuing economic weakness in Europe and the challenges all democratic countries faced to maintain fiscal discipline, particularly in periods of modest economic growth,’ Mr Abbott said……….

    http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=827674

    Important things to attend to. No time for an a nuisance finding of a Federal court judge.

    After all, I am only spending five days in the country. Got to allow for jet lag. Had to sleep on the way over I do not like reading on planes. Better things to do.,

  168. They’re at it again Bacchus. You won’t believe this one…. then again we are talking MSM so you will.

    Rudd, after running a competition to come up with a t-shirt logo and slogan for his reelection in 2013, one where the announcement was timed by Sunrise on Channel 7, has been imputed by the media in yet another Gillard overthrow because…. get this…. the timing of the t-shirt design release coincided with the day Gillard went on leave.

    No prizes for guessing that Abbott has just had another set of poor personal poll results and is facing the music over them.

    Poor polls for Abbott = Rudd overthrow of Gillard in MSM.

    You can set your crystal ball by it and get the prediction right every time.

  169. Maybe, but the PM did the right thing. It is time we stopped siding with the USA in relation to Israel. If we believe in a two state solution, it is time to get off the fence.

    It is Abbott that is playing politics with it.

  170. So there were no reports, just one Daily Telegraph piece saying Gillard came close to collapse based on no evidence.

    A newspaper by the way that has been openly running a long and disingenuous campaign, often directly lying, to oust Gillard.

    Very credible set of reports there Neil.

  171. No Neil, the PM was not rolled. The PM was given alternative advice and information and went down that path.

    Changing one’s mind, when the circumstances change, is not being rolled.

    Most would call it common sense.

  172. “Maybe, but the PM did the right thing.

    CU, the PM got rolled by Cabinet. Gillard wanted to side with Israel. And it was Cabinet that broke years of bipartisanship on this issue.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/bob-carr-denies-treachery-over-israel-vote/story-fn59niix-1226535072396

    BOB Carr has denied allegations of disloyalty to Julia Gillard by colleague Michael Danby, who says the Foreign Minister worked the phones to undermine the Prime Minister’s support for Israel ahead of the recent UN vote on Palestine.

    Mr Danby made the allegation in a scathing opinion piece published in today’s Daily Telegraph, accusing Senator Carr of acting like “Tiberius on the telephone”, referring to the vengeful Roman emperor, in marshalling the numbers against Ms Gillard”

  173. Howard also got rolled on a couple of occasions as has Abbott as opposition leader.

    That’s how democracy and political parties work.

    So what’s your point Neil?

  174. Oh I see what Neil’s point is. A right wing news organisation with a vendetta against the PM made a beat up out of it so Neil mindlessly must follow that beat up.

    That makes sense.

  175. Or is this another diversion away from Abbott and his lying and very low opinion polls.

    That also makes sense.

  176. Abbott caught out in yet another lie.

    Said he hadn’t read the Ashby judgement and knew nothing of it, still didn’t stop him commenting on it though.

    Abbott’s office has confirmed that he was briefed on the judgement.

  177. So what’s your point Neil?

    My point is CU is wrong when she said this

    Abbott back from London. Condemning Julia Gillard was wrong in her vote for UN o Israel . Has interrupted, I think 90 years of bipartisan support.”

    I think it would be correct to say that it is Labor who interrupted bipartisan support of Israel. Surprisingly Gillard wanted to side for Israel but was rolled by Cabinet.

  178. I see, pants wetting on how a right wing news organisation made a beat up about it to they were right to roll Gillard. So which was it?

    What happened in cabinet was common knowledge without the reporting, obviously at the bottom of the food chain.

  179. You won’t believe this one…. then again we are talking MSM so you will.

    I certainly will Mö. We’ve heard not much more than crickets from the Murdoch press on the Rares judgement, but headlining today is……..
    …….
    …….

    You guessed it – “Prima Facie case to answer on AWU”

    Unf’cknbelievable 🙄

  180. Neil and scaper, I believe you both need a lesson on how our parliament works.

    One cannot roll a PM.

    We elect an MP for each electorate. Legislation is passed on the floor of both houses by all the MPs. A PM or Opposition leader only has one vote each.

    The same goes for workings within each party, caucus, cabinet and back bench. One vote each..

    What you two are suggesting that only two of these matters or have any power.

    If that was so, why do we bother with the rest. What use do they have.

    You are suggesting that each makes promises before the election, then for the next three years, they are only free to put those promises in place. In fact, you are suggesting, this should happen, regardless of any changes during that time.

    One ignores such things as GFC and other disasters that can befall the country.

    We have a parliament that is a hybrid of the Westminster the the USA systems.

    All legislation is enacted by passing both houses of parliament. It is nothing about PM or Opposition leaders.

    We elect a government to govern. That means doing what ne3eds to be done for the common good of all. At this time.

    Campaigns are only about how they would like to do things, about priories etc.

    PM do not have the powers of a dictator.

    We vote, then the elected set about to put in place a government that reflects that vote. That is what happened last time.

    The only time a PM can act like a dictator, is if the voters are stupid enough to give them majority numbers in both houses. We have seen what happened when Howard got the numbers.

    Leglisation goes before both houses for review, and where necessary changes made.

    scaper and Neil, I know you do not agree, but that is a good thing. There is no such thing of any legislation being perfect.

    Close scrutiny and admendents by elected MPs is a way of improving and ensuring there are no unseen consequences.

    What you are complaining about is the healthy way the system is working. Yes, PMs accept change, when the evidence says that is the way to go.

    Personally I would like to see many more Independents in both houses. That is what the Founding Fathers seen as the norm,.

    If we cannot have this, the elected MP’s should be playing a bigger part in their parties, representing the people that gave them the mandate, not the party. That is their duty. Yes Neil and scaper more dissension within the parties would be a healthy thing.

  181. Bacchus
    December 19, 2012 @ 8:05 am

    Ricky – did you mean?

    Phone blogging with the new app…Its not working very well is it. 😦
    There must be an App that does this, would be cool if you had all your post options when your logged in. Must be a limitation of WordPress.

    Nil of Sydney
    December 19, 2012 @ 8:40 am
    . I have seen reports where Gillard almost lost the PM job over this issue.

    Put up or shut up you factless troll…..

    Douche scaper…
    December 19, 2012 @ 11:33 am

    Obviously at the bottom of the food chain.

    Scraper makes a comment and insults, reinforcing his troll credentials

    Does anybody have some pest spray? 🙄

    Möbius Ecko
    December 19, 2012 @ 9:41 am

    Oh I see what Neil’s Nils point is. A right wing news organisation with a vendetta against the PM made a beat up out of it so Neil’s Nils mindlessly must follow that beat up.

    Yep that about nails it Moby.

  182. “CU, the PM got rolled by Cabinet. Gillard wanted to side with Israel. And it was Cabinet that broke years of bipartisanship on this issue.”

    Yes Neil, so what. The PM was presented with evidence that it was time to move on. Is not that the job of ministers.

    Neil, things and circumstances change every day. If one cannot change, I would be really worried. It is good to be able to change one’s mind. Not being able to, is dangerous.

    I believe the Coalition is going to learn this lesson with Mr Abbott in the near future. I would say, some are already beginning to wake up.

  183. There are many things I would not rely on a briefing for.

    This judgement is one.

    As Emerson said, could not find time on a long flight.

    God help us.

    That was worse than his jet lag comment last time.

  184. One poll doesn’t a trend make, but it adds to the trend of the other polls except for the odd Newspoll.

  185. very true. looking at the poll, it was over 2 weekends, included failure of Abbott to have proof on AWU and Rares decision, Brough working with Ashby to bring down govt.
    also the ratings for like/dislike and preferred PM appear to be same as other polls. Abbott disliked by 63%.

  186. @ Ricky December 19, 2012 @ 12:43 pm

    Well done Ricky, thanks for that – much easier to read 🙂

    I don’t envy you phone blogging though – I often read on the phone or tablet, but resort to one of the PCs if I want to reply, especially if a copy & paste is involved 😉

  187. “Good on cabinet in this case, they were right to roll Gillard.”

    Once again you miss the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that CU was factually incorrect. Labor and the Coalition have had bipartisan support for Israel for 50 years. It was Labor who broke this support.

    And it was alleged the support was broken not necessarily because Labor thought it was the right thing to do but because of pressure from Islamic voters in Labor seats who want to see the destruction of Israel.

  188. Neil. Maybe it is time for Mr. Abbott to reassess the situation. Once again act in a bipartsanship manner.

    What I am saying, this is not a conversation one has on the world stage.

    Mr. Abbott only intention is to undermine the government of this country. Why would that be.

    How much respect would a politician get from leaders of other countries, running their government down while overseas. Not much I expect.

    I remember a time when it was the convention not to run down their country while aboard.

    What is so clever about scoring points. What it the point you are striving to get across.

    Not sure I said that Abbott broke the bipartisan.

    I am sure you are going to run back with cut and paste to prove I did. Well sorry of you believe I set out to mislead you.

    My concern is what this man does,everytime he opens his mouth.

  189. Hey CU, what does the events in the caucus have anything to do with Parliament? Gillard was rolled by her own Ministers on the Palestine issue, eleven if my pet cockroach is correct. Gillard had to compromise to save face…this has damaged her authority. She is now being mocked in party circles.

    You and the other barrackers here did not even know what transpired at the time and still don’t have a clue.

  190. scaper, the PM was not rolled, Would not have mattered if she was,

    That is how the system works. Ideas are put forwarded and voted on.

    Senator Carr had convinced her to change her mind before the cabinet vote was taken. The PM or maybe Senator

    I believe that Carr also made contact with other cabinet members before doing so. What a shocking thing, that a minister would actually consult, before coming to a decision.

    scaper, cannot you see the stupidity of this argument you are continuing.

    Yes the PM ,after further information and advice, changed her stance.

    Please tell me what is wrong with that.

    Members of the government, consulting and coming to a decision. What shocking behaviour.

    Quick off with their heads.

  191. scaper, why not would what happen in caucus and other groups have any bearing. It is called listening and consulting. Listen, consult, make a decision. That is what occurred.

    If the PM went in with her original proposition, before listening and consulting, and was voted down, maybe, you could then say she was rolled. In fact she would deserve to be.

  192. And it was alleged the support was broken not necessarily because Labor thought it was the right thing to do but because of pressure from Islamic voters in Labor seats who want to see the destruction of Israel.

    Alleged smedged, have you evidence that does not come from a Right Wing source for this?

    You’re a joke sometime Neil. You go on and on about those you call leftoids and ALP making smears and abuse with no facts but you do it all the time.

    You’re a hypocrite.

  193. Alleged smedged, have you evidence that does not come from a Right Wing source for this?

    Well i saw it in the paper. I find it amazing that you trusted everything in the newspapers when it was bad news about Howard but when it is bad news about labor the newspapers cannot be trusted.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/backbench-revolt-forces-pm-to-drop-israel-support-20121127-2a61d.html

    The Right faction, which would usually support Ms Gillard, backed an abstention, in part due to the views of its members that the government was too pro-Israel, and also because many MPs in western Sydney, who are already fearful of losing their seats, are coming under pressure from constituents with a Middle East background.”

  194. Openly mock do the scaper, that means it’s public so why aren’t the Right Wing media jumping on it and running headlines?

    Or is this another one of your exclusive secret squirrel inside access claims that you can’t elucidate on because you will have your tongue cut out, eyes poked out and ears filled with cement if you do?

  195. I find it amazing that you trusted everything in the newspapers when it was bad news about Howard.

    I did no such thing Neil. Stop verballing.

    Howard made his own bad news that was backed up with evidence and the facts of what happened at the time.

    I agree with the right faction in that Labor was too pro-Israel as are most politicians in this country.

    The bit of about MPs fearful of losing their seat doesn’t stack up because as was shown on ABC just last night those seats are still not majority Middle East though heading that way, and the Middle East are not going to vote for Abbott in a fit because he can’t be any more pro-Israel if you put a skull cap on his balding patch.

    It makes no sense.

  196. Still don’t get it, lizard. How do you think that this government granted 1,700 EMA’s to Hancock Prospecting? How do think it got past the unions and their power could not reverse the decision?

    Got the updated ANDEV politician list on the weekend. A growing list of Labor politicians as the vision is not a left/right thing. A concept you will never grasp because it does not fit your narrow ideology.

  197. No, scaper why should I know anything.

    I spent most of my adult life in that region of Syndey.,

    Raised a family of four.

    Many of those, I see that are terrorizing the Guildford area, spent time in my home as kids. Nice kids they were too. Maybe scaper you can with your extensive knowledge tell me where they went wrong. Liked the mothers too. Not many fathers about in the early days. Some came because of war. Many of the men, killed in the process.

    Worked i welfare out there. Belong to Labor as well. Worked in the unions, those like Metal Workers and ETU, to H.A.R.A.E and ended up in the PSA.

    Yes, Labor member in areas such as Guildord, and Cabramatta. Yes, I did live in Cabbramattat, before moving back to Wentworthville to care for my elderly father.

    Yes, scaper what would I know,

    I suspect I might just know how the system works. As an aside, I had an inside seat, into that last great strike, the one on Cockatoo Island, the one with the P and D. That was an experience, I am glad I did not miss.

    Please stop treating us, as if we are naive and stupid. It does not make you look good.

  198. PS. Forgot to aff there have been many changes over the years. What was true a few decades ago, is not necessary so today. Now one of the unions I mentioned. It was the old name for the HSU before Jakcosn got her claws into it. Very good uninon then. I forgot, along the line I also belonged to the Miscalaneous.

  199. Hey, don’t give a stuff about your past and how dare you say I need lessons on how Parliament is run then say stop treating YOU as naive and stupid.

  200. scaper, sorry from the comments you insist on making, it is obvious you need lessons.

    If that is not the case, you are deliberately putting up commnets you know hold no water.

    Maybe it is just not being able to learn or understand, Only you know the answers.

    Just thought I would help.

  201. If the Morgan poll was conducted face to face, is there not the likelihood that they would have sought responses from people whose only form of telephone communication is via a mobile? You know, that group of people who are excluded in Newspolls?

  202. Miglo
    anyway, you haven’t read about the Morgan poll in any of the msm, so it cannot be newsworthy.

    Wouldn’t it be funny if a holiday newbie journo asked Abbott for a response to the Morgan poll? Is he back yet or could they ask him when he gets off the plane?

  203. Yep, I poke back!

    Your blog, your rules but a bit of consistancy would not go astray. Look at the person who refers to me as ‘douche scraper’ would he say that to my face? I doubt it but it could be arranged. Anything I say here I would not hesitate to say face to face.

  204. Neil Nil
    of Sydney
    December 19, 2012 @ 2:07 pm
    “Good on cabinet in this case, they were right to roll Gillard.”
    Once again you miss the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that CU was factually incorrect. Labor and the Coalition have had bipartisan support for Israel for 50 years. It was Labor who broke this support

    And that is working is it? So you use this as an attack on Labor?, a pragmatic approach to peace? I will remind you that Israel continues to break the law and with its unlawful constructions in directly contravening to the peace accord. Are you interested in seeing a peaceful solution? If so abstaining paves the way for dialogue. The main difference between Palestine and Israel is one country provides most of the weapons guidance systems to geo political armoury trade. This very fact influences America’s dialogue.

    And it was alleged the support was broken

    Alleged….By who when where, put up or shut up troll.

    Douche scaper…
    December 19, 2012 @ 2:32 pm
    Hey CU, what does the events in the caucus have anything to do with Parliament?

    Scraper has no idea what a caucus or cabinet debate means, this troll is IGNORANT

    Gillard was rolled by her own Ministers on the Palestine issue, eleven if my pet cockroach is correct.

    Those Eleven Cockroaches’ are your only mates

    You and the other barrackers here did not even know what transpired at the time and still don’t have a clue.

    I did and do troll as I am a member of the caucus, you have no idea, just being led along by the nose by the media you factless patsy troll.

    Douche scaper…
    December 19, 2012 @ 2:58 pm
    You dispute the terminology of the dissenters in the caucus?
    Her own now openly mock her and Swan. You need lessons on how party politics work.

    A pitiful attempt at pretending like he is connected and knows what is going on when he is just an attention seeking Bolt Parrot

    Are you a member of the Labor party caucus? Are you a financial member of any party or just a attention seeking, opinionated “whore to the media” troll?

    Neil Nil of Sydney
    December 19, 2012 @ 3:03 pm
    “Alleged smedged, have you evidence that does not come from a Right Wing source for this?” Well i saw it in the paper

    The paper?
    http://www.smh.com.au /opinion/…..see that “opinion”…..
    Factless….Troll 🙄

    douche scaper…
    December 19, 2012 @ 4:08 pm
    Still don’t get it, lizard. How do you think that this government granted 1,700 EMA’s to Hancock Prospecting? How do think it got past the unions and their power could not reverse the decision?

    Maybe you could share this with us as its going to be an interesting debate at the next conference

    Got the updated ANDEV politician list on the weekend.

    Ok Share, where is it..? Is it a page of the army of the cult of Lang and his vision for succession with an economic exclusion zone. Bolt, Andev, you zombie 🙄

    Douche scaper…
    December 19, 2012 @ 4:25 pm
    Hey, don’t give a stuff about your past and how dare you say I need lessons on how Parliament is run then say stop treating YOU as naive and stupid.

    Hey troll start posting fact and maybe we will give you and your eleven cockroaches’ some attention, I seriously doubt it though

    Douche scaper… December 19, 2012 @ 5:03 pm
    Yep, I poke back!
    Your blog, your rules but a bit of consistancy would not go astray. Look at the person who refers to me as ‘douche scraper’ would he say that to my face? I doubt it but it could be arranged. Anything I say here I would not hesitate to say face to face.

    Absolutely. I have the guts to use my own name unlike you spineless troll. You’re a political pygmy. Anyone that subscribes to Bolt and posts no facts and does not debate is a deserves no respect whatsoever. A least Iian Hall is open and honest about who he is and what he stands for. You constantly insult and antagonise people. Please feel free to fuck off at any time, don’t let the facts hit you on the ass on the way out. Happy to meet you face to face, all my details are out there, unlike yours you douche scraping troll.

  205. “So you use this as an attack on Labor?

    No i was using it for an attack on CU. It was Labor that broke 50 years of bipartisan support for Israel. Labor may have good reasons for doing this. But CU was attacking Abbott because she said it was Abbott who broke bipartisan support. This is wrong.

    Factless….Troll

    Why am I called a factless troll. I was asked to provide a reference to where it was alleged that Labor was siding with Hamas because of pressure from Labor voters in Labor seats. And I provided a reference

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/backbench-revolt-forces-pm-to-drop-israel-support-20121127-2a61d.html

    and also because many MPs in western Sydney, who are already fearful of losing their seats, are coming under pressure from constituents with a Middle East background.”

  206. He has no case CU, just baggage
    He has no idea until Bolt tells him 🙂
    Douche Scraper and Nils cant even tell us 6 reasons of character why they vote for Abbott.
    The public has wised up as is reflected in the today’s poll so they don’t even believe their own bulshit anymore. News Ltd poll to follow..gee I wonder what that will say.?

    Like all trolls, big on opinion low on facts and No debate just insults and rhetoric.

  207. Your blog, your rules but a bit of consistancy would not go astray. Look at the person who refers to me as ‘douche scraper’

    Scaper, the big difference is that I know you can get angry at times.

  208. Migs, have never thrown a punch first.

    Just got a call from Brendan Nelson, he is now head of the Australian War Memorial and filled him in on the disparity of service pensions and the like that we are campaigning to address. Will be most helpful.

    He was on his way home and will be looking at a certain site as he was always interested in the vision. Pygmy indeed!

  209. At least Neil is honest. He has admitted to an attack on me.

    Neil, you have made my day.

    One feather in my cap. That is if I wore one.

    Neil get a sense of humour. Makes life a lot easier.

    People have different views. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong, Sometimes all are wrong,

    That is life, and not that important.

  210. Scaper, OK, perhaps you’re disadvantaged because I’ve known you a long time.

    I remember in the old days that whenever I started to get angry on the blogs you’d step in and ask me how the weather was going in Canberra. These were never disputes with you, but with others. You would jump in and diffuse the situation. I always appreciated that. I was trying to do the same here, which I think you’ve picked up on.

    I don’t really mind Brendan Nelson. I think he was much nicer a person and a politician than the people in the party he led.

    I actually felt sorry for him when he was heckled by people listening to his own statement in response to Kevin Rudd’s apology to the Stolen Generation. He spoke from the heart, which in itself was not a true representation of the party position.

  211. It appears that Mr. Brandis is travelling wwith Mr. Abbott. Maybe they will both read the judgement on the way home.

    ……………..Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says he has not read the week-old judgment of the Peter Slipper case because he has been doing “very important things for the people of Australia” in Britain……………………………

    ………During his trip, Mr Abbott delivered a speech to his old college at Oxford University and met with a number of officials including British Foreign Secretary William Hague, Mayor of London Boris Johnson and the outgoing Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King.
    Mr Abbott’s office has confirmed that the Opposition Leader has been briefed on the judgment.
    Trade Minister Craig Emerson said Mr Abbott’s concession that he had not read the judgment was a “damning indictment on a man who puts himself forward as the alternative Prime Minister of Australia.”

    Dr Emerson said Mr Abbott was “too lazy” to read the judgment, that has a seven page summary.

    “It is clear that Mr Abbott does not read documents that are essential for the discharge of his duties as Leader of the Opposition,” he told reporters in Sydney on Wednesday. …………………….

    ………..”The only document that we know Mr Abbott has read this year is 50 Shades of Grey.”

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-hasnt-read-slipper-judgment-but-stands-by-brough-20121219-2blw7.html#ixzz2FTuWoGPh

  212. Yeah, we go back a long way. You are slightly to the left but being in the centre…pretty lonely here at times.

    Brendan is a good guy, some good guys and gals on both sides. What really interested me was his views now that he is out of the fray.

    The opposition says it will address the disparity of the veterans pensions but that is not good enough…got to be vigilant.

    To address the disparity will cost just under $20M a year. Not $6B over the forward estimates.

  213. Sue, I would have been surprise if the did after all this time. It is brothels we are talking about. High class ones at that I believe..

    Ir only shows in my opinion, they haveno evidence and are desperately digging.

    Only for political and the interference of Jackson and co, that it has got this far.

    If tyjhere was any real evidence, it would have been settled years ago.

    I believe more documents, related to Jackson and recent timres has been seized.

  214. I see Brendan Nelson has been mentioned. I remember very clearly the crap he took from Labor supporters because when he was defense minister he ordered the Super Hornets

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s1873007.htm

    KERRY O’BRIEN: Welcome to the program. When the Government announced it would be spending $6 billion to buy 24 new fighter bombers last week, the defence establishment might have been expected to applaud. But, if there was applause, it was seriously muted. The criticism wasn’t. The Defence Minister, Brendan Nelson, has come under sustained fire from a wide range of experts, including two former senior Air Force officers, who say the billions will be wasted on a poorly performed plane to fill a capability gap that isn’t there. Now Mr Nelson is fighting back, saying it’s a sound decision, for which he takes full responsibility. Mark Bannerman reports.

    Everybody abused Nelson over the Super Hornet purchase. Tim Dunlop wrote a blog about it and how incompetent the Coalition is. Joel Fitzgibbon blew the crap out of him.

    Well now Labor is saying what a great choice it was.

    Defence Minister Stephen Smith said it had now become clear to all that the Super Hornets were much more than simply a transition capability.”

    Tim Dunlop, Joel Fitzgibbon and the whole ALP should apologise to Brendon Nelson

  215. Just got a call from Brendan Nelson

    Right! LOL. Something he couldn’t wait to do while he’s coming to grips with his new appointment, which he confessed he knows little about.

    … filled him in on the disparity of service pensions and the like ..

    You mean the ‘good guy’ needed ‘filling in’? Please. Pehaps a recent convert?

    And then:

    Will be most helpful

    Are you seriously suggesting that Nelson in his current position will have the power to influence current or future government policy? You must be out of your tree. Nelson was wiped by the Libs – you know – lost the leadership. Rudd rubbed their noses in it by giving him a sinecure. When Nelson comes ‘lobbying’ (whch he won’t – he’s not that dumb), neither the Libs nor the ALP would be influnced at all. He’s yesterday’s man. Imagine a medico who doesn’t want to be a medico anymore but a war memorial administrator. Whatever.

    … will be looking at a certain site as he was always interested in the vision …

    Always the mystery. Certainly not you site which is now part of the historical record.

    Well I suppose every village has to have one. But usually they only star at the ‘gurning competition’.

    Anyone else notice that the quest to be a registered political lobbyist, like the ambition to be a grazier, deck builder and the list goes on .. has been confined to the dustbin of history.

  216. The Fiberals are in for a world of pain if the “mainstream” media decide to tackle 2013 with a little less bias than they’ve used this year.

    And well they might! Limited News and Fairfax are both losing money. Time to refine the approach somewhat? New entrant, the Australian Guardian, appears likely to lob on the scene. And there was talk that Huffington Post was considering starting an Australian version. More pressure to stop the rightward drift of the media landscape if one or both these progressive outlets sets up here.

    Any drift back away from the rabid right will cost the Fiberals, and, being the ultimate media welfare case that they are they would have to know this. So I expect they’ll be having a nervous Christmas behind the spin and front of bravado.

  217. Neil

    Your beloved LNP voted against compulsory super for all, you know the super that will help everyone even the poor it wouyld destroy the country and send business broke. Yet now your beloved LNP agree it was a great decision. So I demand an apology from your beloved party. NOW !!! your one sided hypocrisy is becoming pathetic even for a middle of the road voter like myself.

  218. Well i saw it in the paper. I find it amazing that you trusted everything in the newspapers when it was bad news about Howard but when it is bad news about labor the newspapers cannot be trusted.

    Pot, Kettle, Black

  219. Tony Abbott assault shifts to abortion
    BY: DAVID CROWE, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR From: The Australian

    LABOR has moved to reignite a row with Tony Abbott on abortion in a bid to exploit his poor standing among female voters in the lead-up to the next election.

    Health Minister Tanya Plibersek yesterday accused Mr Abbott of “misrepresenting” medical advice during his time as health minister last decade when he cited potential risks from the RU486 abortion pill to oppose its use.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/abbott-assault-shifts-to-abortion/story-fn59niix-1226540714431

  220. Scaper defined “a coaltion govt” in that as the Greens guaranteed supply then Labor-greens were a coalition.

    I then said by that definition the Shooters Party in NSW were in coalition govt with Barry O’Farrell . Here is govt NSW

    “Diana Melham, who represents the Sporting Shooters on the committee, boasted on the association’s website in October that the state government had been rolled on tighter gun laws.

    ”The NSW government had sought to impose major new restrictions on law-abiding firearm owners and dealerships, however members of the Firearms Consultative Committee stood firm and said ‘not on our watch’.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/not-on-our-watch-shooters-lobby-frustrates-tighter-controls-on-guns-20121219-2bndq.html#ixzz2FX8xNA2Z

  221. CU

    Have you seen how many articles in the OZ are on Tony Abbott today?
    Their preferred PM is in need of help. As for that Pilbersek story that was in the papers a couple of weeks ago. What are they after the “poor Tony” vote?

    Will that become Tony’s 3 word slogan for the election, vote for me

    “I’m a Loser”

  222. scaper…
    December 19, 2012 @ 6:16 pm
    Migs, have never thrown a punch first.

    You are swinging haymakers like a Biffo at a Beer Bonged Bogan Barbie

    Obviously I have hit a raw nerve with “political pygmy”
    I adopted Iain’s style of quote, opinion, factless observational narrative. I added a sprinkling of return fire insults just to accommodate your “tone tone”

    Annoying isn’t it.

    We all have our causes and name dropping is crass.

    Shouting, quoting bullshit and insulting people is trolling, which seems to be your thing. I know every troll trick in the book; I’m a veteran moderator of bulletin boards so I’ve seen it all and some. I just call it as I see it. You seem to think “debate” means state opinion and insult as Bolt thinks “defame” means free speech.

    I resent antagonistic factless trolling peppered with insults it’s not cool.
    If you’re not happy being a troll then by all means join debate, I’m happy to engage if your happy to back up.

    I can assure you that if we were to debate face to face, I would still point out your opinionated, factless, poorly researched and insulting. Quote propaganda as if its gospel is monumentally insulting. I will take by your seething comment that “I dare not say it to your face”, your upset. 😦 Inversely I propose the same premise. This is a good blog not an ideological football match, if you want unconditional love and adoration buy a puppy. Why you want to eat pork sausages at a Jewish BBQ is beyond me. I can only deduce that you long for attention so again buy a puppy.

    I can’t argue with factual truth it stifles debate. I am the worst critic of media as nobody checks simple facts anymore. Unlike most in the Blogosphere, I’m big enough to admit I was wrong especially if I am educated to that position with fact and qualified rationale. Broadside comments served with insults does not qualify.

    Scraper, you neither rest or have made a case.

  223. sue
    December 20, 2012 @ 8:01 am
    The Shooters Party in NSW were in coalition govt with Barry O’Farrell . Here is govt NSW. “Diana Melham, who represents the Sporting Shooters on the committee, boasted on the association’s website in October that the state government had been rolled on tighter gun laws.

    When people voted out the NSW Labor convincingly they didn’t vote for a minority like the shooters party to start shooting in national parks. Non disclosure whatsoever, many of my friends would have abstained if it was. Here I applaud the courage of John Howard’s gun law legacy and deplore the contrast of O’Farrell’s behind the couch incompetence.

  224. Pingback: The ‘Right’ to be heard: what we heard. | Café Whispers

  225. Pingback: Baby North West’s Birth Plays Out on Next “Keeping Up with the Kardashians”: Watch a Preview Here! | umopupyda

  226. Pingback: Hockey’s Gold « The Australian Independent Media Network

Leave a Comment

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s