Tell me lies

The Coalition save their best lies for the election campaigns. Some comments on this blog (and Facebook) about that very thing have attracted enough debate to suggest that it should run as a topic in itself.

Let’s briefly look at some of those lies.

There’s John Howard’s “There will never ever be a GST” way back in the late 1990s, which has been all but forgotten by the media and the right-wing hit squad, the same groups who scream pathetically about Julia Gillard’s ‘carbon tax promise’.

There’s John Howard’s lie about ‘children overboard’ leading up to the 2001 election, which delivered the Coalition a dark victory.

In 2004 Howard not only lied about interest rates always being lower under a Coalition Government, but also lied when he claimed he never said it at all; a claim that has been proven wrong thanks to YouTube. Like the little weasel he was, those defiant claims came on the back of 11 successive interest rate rises under his watch.

As Mobius pointed out on this blog, Abbott lied in 2010 to the Indies and to two of his own members in an attempt to win government. He also lied about policy in 2010 in an attempt to win government; policies he’s since back flipped on saying circumstances change.

Abbott hasn’t stopped lying since he lost the 2010 election and has been gazumped on every one of them. I doubt very much he’ll change tact in 2013.

I can’t think of a topic or issue he hasn’t lied about but I’m sure he’ll come up with a new one. He’ll get even more desperate in 2013 and and the bullshit is sure to fly.

Any ideas what he’ll try?

 

 

 

402 comments on “Tell me lies

  1. That Abbott well blame Gillard and Labor for him lying. As like Campbell “one hit wonder as QLD Premier” Abbott well always blame others for his backflips, lies and errors, because they both don’t have enough guts to blame themselves.

  2. I don’t know what happened there, Cuppa, but your comments got caught up in our spam folder. 😦

    Just goes to show that even our spam filter despises Tony Abbott. 🙂

    Anyway, I apologise. Perhaps I could shout you a drink.

  3. I suspect he’ll play the old race card trick. He’ll lie about boats, Aborigines or or any minority group. No group will be immune from his attack. He’ll have the electorate living in fear of being overrun with Muslims or having their land taken off them due to a native title claim. Aborigines will destroy the mining industry and Muslims will destroy our fundamental Christianity. Unless we vote for him we are all doomed.

  4. Desperate much in this piece Migs!

    All players in the game of politics are at times economic with the truth but I think that the most important arbiters of political veracity are the voters and when it comes down to who they believe is most honest it certainly isn’t Gillard and co which leaves Abbott and the coalition well ahead.
    Can I say that your citing of the GST must really count as an “own Goal!!” because unlike Gillard’s broken Carbon tax promise Howard to the GST to an election that he won which meant that his changed position was not ever seen as a betrayal of the people’s trust. The rest of your argument went down hill from there.

  5. Troll, as I pointed out on another thread, the never ever GST was an absolute lie as that was his policy position for years prior to the lie, and he only said it to win the election knowing that he would introduce it in his second term, as historically Australian govs get a second term.
    It WAS a LIE, and it was PREMEDITATED, end of story. 👿

  6. I think this is an appropriate thread to re-post my my poem;

    Tony Abbott, the libs and the truth.

    When Tony Abbott.. and his libs
    Say Julia Gillard.. lies
    They are showing.. their hypocrisy
    As they spout.. THEIR porky.. pies
    About a price.. on carbon… that they’ve called
    The PM’s.. toxic tax
    While dismissing.. all the experts
    And ignoring.. all the facts

    Claiming massive rises… in the price
    Of everything… we buy
    But he’s contradicted.. by the facts
    And his arguments.. just won’t fly
    And his cohorts think… that lies become truth
    If they’re often enough.. repeated
    But it’s their credibility.. not the ALP
    That.. by their lies.. will be defeated

    The lies they’ve told.. are big and bold
    Seeking to.. rewrite…. History
    For the sake of Abbotts.. grand ambition
    Based on inherent… stupidity
    Saying.. poor Wyalla’s.. gunna go
    She’ll be wiped.. right off.. the map
    Proving yet again… the man’s insane
    And full of naught.. but crap

    And his wrecking ball.. had a nasty fall
    Landing squarely… on his toe
    After missing… the.. economy
    And rolling…. sloppy Joe
    Who was never good with figures
    But a wrecking ball…is he
    Spreading lies.. and misinformation
    about the oz economy

    Then there’s the tech head.. Malcolm Turnbull
    Spreading… more of Abbotts lies
    Claiming.. fibre to the node.. is the way for us
    Proving… on him…. there are no flies
    As when it comes… to his own.. investments
    Fibre to the home.. is the way to go
    But when it comes to giving us… the best
    The Abbott just says… NO

    And the rest of Abbotts mendacious mates
    Make up…. his motley crew
    Of sloganeers and… farting heads
    They’re dishonest through and through
    With his deputy.. the Bishop
    Searching constantly… for proof
    That her sour looks… are justified
    Cos she’s been.. violated… by the truth

    And he plots and schemes to fulfil his dreams
    Of his perfect… Liberal state
    Based on Howards.. worn out policies
    His mentor… and his mate
    But the world’s moved on.. without him
    And the Liberals… fractured parts
    Leaving a monstrous policy vacuum
    And the Abbotts stale… brain farts

    He’ll promise us… a banquet
    But all that’s on…. his plate
    Is his pugilistic nature…
    And his body… builders.. gait
    With his numbers falling weekly
    And his credibility… shot
    And the murmurings of descent
    Amongst.. the lying.. liberal.. lot

    But the right wing.. power brokers
    Still think Abbott… is their man
    Pushing spin and propaganda
    Just because… the bastards can
    But he’s not a leaders… arsehole
    He is just… a right wing.. thug
    With the body… of an old.. athlete
    And the brainpower… of a slug

    And despite support from… billionaires
    And mates… like Alan… Jones
    The Abbotts time… is nearly done
    With no meat.. left…… only bones
    And the history books will tell the tale
    Of an election…. his to take
    But he lost… because.. all the people saw
    Was a…. monumental…. fake

    Cheers 😀

  7. lets face it, if the LNP told the truth, they would remain in opposition almost indefinitely.

    Even in QLD, when they didn’t need to they still lied.

    They just can’t help themselves… it’s in their DNA. 👿 👿

    Cheers

  8. Wasn’t that something Truth Seeker. Straight out of the gate and not even waiting for the election dust to settle, Newman in just his first day broke a major promise and then went on in that week to break a string of them, a couple that were monumental deceits and major election promises.

    He then wasted no time putting into place an corrupt audit commission using Costello as a bad excuse to break more major election promises.

    What has to be seriously looked at here is that Abbott has endorsed everything Newman has done and praised Newman for the job he is doing. Abbott has lied in stating Newman had to break all those promises, so in a roundabout way Abbott is telling the truth that if he gets into power he will break all his election promises just as Newman has.

    There is another truth Abbott has told so he can use it to break a major promise of his, a promise that he’s repeated many times and emphatically each time, he will not bring in WorkChoices. His truth is that he will hold a commission (witch hunt/kangaroo court) into Gillard/unions and use that as an excuse to bring in WorkChoices. Some astute political commentators have already pinged onto this.

    Another promise Abbott will keep so as to break promises is to hold a corrupt audit commission using Costello.

  9. Iain, many have attempted to explain to you the difference between an emissions trading scheme and a tax.

    Naturally this statement of an emissions trading scheme was quickly buried under a dung heap of lies from Abbott who yelled out T-A-X at every available opportunity..even though of course it isn’t one.

    Shall we have it again..well, why not..

    JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.

    It will be part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.

    In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

    “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

  10. You say that Howard said the “never ever” on the GST in the late nineties. That is incorrect, Howard made that statement on May 2 1995. He took the GST policy to the next election, October 3 1998 and lost the primary vote but won the seats required to form government.

    I would say it is the left wing hit squad that is short on memory…when it suits!

  11. Left wing shadow boxers have impaired memory! In computer language, garbage in equals garbage out. This wreaks havoc with RAM, rendering software useless. In layman terms this is described as a soft brain!

  12. To describe the Costello audit as corrupt is not correct either. The QCU engaged Walker and Walker who have a history of criticising audits back to the eighties. Their main gripe was that Costello’s report stated gross debt instead of the dodgy net debt used as the international standard to paint rosier pictures.

  13. So Howard lied or changed his mind? Would be the same answer as did Gillard lie or change her mind? The big difference is Howard took it to the people which was central on his policy platform. Gillard did not.

  14. Costellos audit was as bent as a safety pin, and if it wasn’t why does Screwman have two sets of numbers, one to justify his mad cuts and the right set of figures to sell to overseas investors?

    Lying piece of shit.

  15. In not saying anything, I guess The LIbEralS suckers are saying it is ok for Liberals to lie, like Howard no GST never ever, WMD’s etc etc?

  16. “why does Screwman have two sets of numbers,”

    The featherless duck has multiple sets of numbers, all in his head and all of no consequence save to save Labor’s sorry ass!

  17. Look what Howard took to the election on the GST and what was delivered. He lied from the get go. His number one promise on it, and it was part of the most wasteful ad campaign conducted by a government, was that no one, and he said it many times, no one would be worse off under a GST.

    The moment he won government a whole raft of demographics who would be worse off were revealed.

    The second broken promise on the GST was it would get rid of or significantly reduce the black economy because of the way they were implementing it. The Germans who had a long history of goods and services taxing laughed at that promise, made the papers at the time.

    Black economy increased under the GST and continues to flourish to this day.

    The third broken promise was that the GST would simplify the red tape and tax reporting for businesses. What a joke that turned out to be as it increased it to such an extent businesses had to hire either part time or full time accountants to meet the reporting requirements, greatly adding to their costs.

    An accountant I had back then had one part of a bookcase with the old tax system volumes and another with the GST volumes and scoffed at the premise the GST made the system simpler as the GST took up two more shelves than the previous tax system volumes.

    The GST was another Howard lie as he did say “Never Ever” yet bought it in and lied to the people on the back of a misleading and expensive ad campaign when he bought the “Never Ever” tax to the election.

    Abbott has also said “Never Ever” on several policies, none more so than WorkChoices yet all his rhetoric and manoeuvrings have been to bring it in.

    All politicians lie to an extent but the Liberal do is a normal part of doing business, as the Liberal States are proving, but more than that they go to great lengths to deceive and misinform.

  18. Has it bypassed the noticed of our visitors, the PM’s popularity is growing, while the Oppositions Leader’s is going south.

  19. Oh and another Howard GST lie. It would solve the States revenue problems.

    Greiner on Sky News explaining why the GST is failing the States, but why it will also become a problem for future Federal governments.

    Every other country bar one has increased their goods and services tax systems, many several times and significantly. The longer that is held off in Australia then the larger the increase will need to be down the track.

    The GST is a regressive tax that needs to be continually increased to meet revenue demands, something Australia has failed to do, the only major OECD country not to do it, and it’s becoming a problem.

    So chalk up another Howard failure, but let it be said given the chance and favourable circumstance a Labor government would also have bought in a GST of some type.

  20. Has it passed the notice of the visitors that the membership of the Labor Party is sky rocketing whilst the membership of the Liberal Party is plummeting.

    If they aren’t members yet they better join quickly or their mired in the distant past party will go under as a member base and be reliant solely on right wing vested interest groups and big business for survival.

  21. Treeman, you have a funny idea of the word, patronizing.

    It seems we are patronising, when we point out or explain what you mean.

    Saying that, if the caps fits, wear it.

    Abbott is a proven liar, and the many quips, replaying the words out of his own mouth prove it.

  22. Tree Troll Tree Troll Tree Troll, comprehension is still a problem for you, isn’t it!
    Never mind you may get your sad little head around it…. one day!
    Now thats patronising. 😀

    Cheers 😆 😆 😆

  23. The borrowings in the Non-financial Public Sector at 30 June 2011 was estimated at
    $52.8 billion by the Bligh government. The deficit for the income year June 30 2012 was $6.5B so Costello’s estimate of $64B would look a bit over the top if one was to ignore other liabilities and a little thing called interest in that year. We lost our AAA credit rating around three years ago. I suppose the credit rating agencies are corrupt too???

  24. I find it odd that same people who criticise Gillard are quite happy to defend Howard; the consummate lawyer.

  25. Well TS, we agree to disagree.

    Now let us move on to the GST…as revenue to the states, it has been a failure. Look at the fiscal performance of all states, governments of all colours since it was introduced? Looks to me that either they have been fiscally irresponsible or the GST is inadequate. A bit of both I reckon.

    It would be interesting to see not only the state breakdown of GST earned state by state and how many cents in the GST dollar the feds retain. Bachuus? Would going back to the old system where the states collected and kept all the sales taxes?

    There is a lot of talk about either raising the percentage or the base but talk is the flavour of this era. Now, if I was into tax policy I would bring in GST on financial services for starters and would not alter the rate but it still comes back to how much of the GST the feds retain.

  26. Just for your education and clearly you need it, the expression is “to change tack”. It’a yachting expression meaning to move in a different direction. If you’re going to pontificate – GET IT RIGHT. I can only hope your followers know better!>

  27. scaper, hate to remind one,

    Queensland did have a couple of disastrous years with natural calamities..

    Of course that would not have harmed the state financially unless it was a Liberal government in power.

    And that dollar that will not come down, would not discourage overseas tourism.

    Of course that could not be the problem, it has to be Labor.

  28. I’m not 100% certain scaper, but I’d doubt such a break down of where GST is collected would be possible. How do Woolworths, Coles, Myer, Telstra… report their GST? I’m guessing it would be on a national basis, reported in the state in which their headquarters exists.

    The Federal government only “retains” GST revenue to pay to the states as tied health funding (except WA). *** I don’t think this arrangement is still in place – I can’t find mention of it in the 2012-13 budget papers.*** This is a bit of a furphy anyway because the federal government pays something like $90 billion to the states, while GST revenue is only $48 billion.

  29. Truth Seeker @ 6:23 am

    Troll, as I pointed out on another thread, the never ever GST was an absolute lie as that was his policy position for years prior to the lie, and he only said it to win the election knowing that he would introduce it in his second term, as historically Australian govs get a second term.
    It WAS a LIE, and it was PREMEDITATED, end of story. 👿

    Being rude and abusive does not make your case, nor does shouting. The simple fact of teh matter is that seeking a mandate for a policy like the GST by taking it to the people well ant truly negates any quibbles about a change of position. In fact when it comes to Gillard loss of face over her Carbon tax back-flip what it demonstrated was her excessive desire for power and her poor negotiating skills, in particular it showed that she got a really bad deal from the Greens and had she insisted that she would not introduce any scheme unless it had been endorsed by an election win the stocks of the Labor government would be far stronger today

    Truth Seeker @ 6:31 am

    I think this is an appropriate thread to re-post my my poem;

    Please make this the last time that you try to promulgate you Vogon poetry as it constitutes cruel and unusual punishment and a crime against humanity according to UN conventions.
    👿 👿 👿 👿 👿 👿
    Min @ 8:23 am

    Iain, many have attempted to explain to you the difference between an emissions trading scheme and a tax.

    Naturally this statement of an emissions trading scheme was quickly buried under a dung heap of lies from Abbott who yelled out T-A-X at every available opportunity..even though of course it isn’t one.

    The distinctions that you allude to really just constitute an attempt to make a semantic argument and it just does not wash with the public who consider that Gillard’s “there will be NO carbon tax under a government I lead” made subsequent to any talk of a “price on carbon” so it nullified the earlier pronouncements, further Gillard promised community consultation (citizen’s assembly) before any scheme would be introduced and she broke that promise as well.

  30. The GST proved a fraud. It did not meet the needs of the states. It did not get rid of the black economy, which has grown dramatically.

    It imposed extra costs on business. Mr. Howard was unable to get all he wanted through the senate..

    Funny , this PM seems to get all she wants, when she does not have a majority in either house.

    The GST destroyed the democrats.

    It was a costly exercise, that delivered little.

    It also shifted the tax burden from the wealthy to lower income earners. It allowed income tax, that benefited the well off.

    Lower income earners will always pay a bigger slice of their income in GST, than those on high incomes. Mainly because lower income earner does not have the ability to save.

  31. Bacchus, wouldn’t have a clue about the corporate structures of those companies but would expect divisional reporting on the GST.

    Regardless of the GST and other grants I stick by my statement that no government of any colour seems to have managed their finances well since the introduction of the GST.

    What is your take?

  32. It wasn’t that they “never thought to insure for such events” scaper – they most certainly did, but the cost was considered prohibitive by the bean counters.

  33. scaper another furthy. That type of insurance is unavailable, and if so, too expensive. No state as far as I know insures in that category.

    Would not have made any difference.

  34. In the last decade or so, the western world seems to have moved to the position, that the main aim is to lower taxes, regardless of need.

    The belief was that the economies of the world would function better. Does not seem to have occurred. Might be something wrong with the ideology.

  35. So I hate to see what The Liberals and Abbott supporters think of Abbott supporting a form of Carbon Tax, then not supporting it?

    Another lie?

    Abbott supporters “Oh no this is not a lie, he is allowed to back flip”.

  36. I think it’s a little more complex than just “they haven’t managed their finances well.” State governments are at the pointy end of service delivery, so they’re the ones coping with rising costs and falling revenues – health is a prime example.

    During many of the years the GST has been in operation, they also had to contend with the Howard government reducing general purpose & special purpose grants to the states in the mindless pursuit of bigger and better surpluses.

    Of course, many state governments also stuffed some things up, as any government (or large business) is wont to do. The Qld health payroll debacle is a prime example of that! (Although I lay the blame on IBM, rather than State government ministers or public servants).

  37. Yes, the flood levy which those who could afford, complained about. Did the job, I believe. scaper, it would be the taxpayers in the end that would have to pay for any over priced insurance. Suspect the bean counters may have been correct. The numbers did not add up.

  38. Thank you Liberal and Abbott supporters for proving with your own rants, how weak and stupid you are.

    As explaining the difference between an emissions trading scheme and a tax, is not “patronising” sob sob but helping someone.

    Howard broke his promise of not bringing an GST and other lies.

    And the word someone got wrong in their lies, is an ass which is a hoof like animal, not the word arse that we use in Australia.

    Also catching up needs to do some catching up especially to prove the Lower income earners will always pay a bigger slice of their income in GST, than those on high incomes.

  39. Got anything better scaper then wow (clap, clap) one link to a newspaper who are friends with The Liberals?

    And Ian sorry Iian acting like an idiot because you are scare of others pointing out reality such Howard never ever GST, does not make your case, nice try anyway..

  40. What is scaper take on Abbott supporting a form of Carbon Tax and then not supporting it?

    Silent?

  41. Sure scaper there were many stories backing what you say.There were also others, that do not.

    The norm is for government to self insure. Nothing new in that. It was the extent of the flooding that was not the norm. Once in a lifetime or more.

    Easy to be clever in resprospect Sadly we do not have the ability to look into the future. Such flooding would not6 have been expected.

  42. “is it constitutes cruel and unusual punishment and a crime against humanity according to UN conventions”

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz another BS rant from The Master of BS Rants?

  43. As I said scaper – the bean counters said it was too expensive:

    The Australian confirmed that the state government has previously been approached to take out catastrophe insurance on the private market but declined to on the basis it was not “value for money”.

    Consider that Queensland is the state most likely to suffer damage in populated areas during the cyclone season. Basic insurance risk assessment says that disaster insurance in Qld is going to be more costly than Vic or NSW…

  44. No such floods would not have been expected, but that didn’t stop The LNP supporters not only playing the blame game even before The Inquiry started especially in letters in The LNP Friend, The Courier Mail.

  45. Lower income earners spend most of their income as they receive it.

    Except for fresh food, there will be a GST component.

    The wealthy spend a smaller proportion of their income on such needs.

    If they save and so not spend the rest, they are not paying GST. Now, that cannot be that hard.

    To pay GST. You buy goods or services. If you have to spend most of your income each pay day, there has to be bigger percentage that goes in GST.

  46. I don’t dispute that, Bacchus. A smart bean counter would rather piggy back on the Commonwealth picking up 75% of the cost than purchase re-insurance.

  47. But wouldn’t the high income earners pay higher GST on costly items, like more higher prices foods?

  48. As Mobius pointed out on this blog, Abbott lied in 2010 to the Indies and to two of his own members in an attempt to win government

    Really?? What lie was this?? For Abbott to have told a lie he would have had to win the election and then renege on his word, like Gillard did to Wilkie.

    Now the big lie and a candidate for the biggest of all time to win govt was Gillards lie to Wlikie. Just do a google search and you will find what Wilkie thinks of Gillard.

  49. For Abbott to have told a lie he would have had to win the election and then renege on his word

    No Neil – that is not the definition of a lie 🙄

    lie – a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

    Nothing there about being elected and reneging on a promise – the key is “make a statement, knowing it’s false, with a deliberate intent to deceive.”

  50. scaper @ 9.50
    “and how many cents in the GST dollar the feds retain. ”

    your wish answered by Nick Greiner, former Liberal Premier NSW

    Former NSW premier Nick Greiner says the states and territories will become more vocal about changing the goods and services tax (GST) next year.

    He says state and territory politicians will begin a serious debate on the rate and base of the GST “some time in the second half of 2013”.

    “This is a state tax in every meaningful way, 100 cents in the dollar go to the states,” he told Sky News on Sunday.”

    ews.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/states-to-speak-more-on-gst-reform-in-2013-20121209-2b36t.html

    100 CENTS IN THE DOLLAR GO TO THE STATES

  51. No “Ex-Liberal Member.”

    Try thinking logically 🙄

    High income earners most likely pay more GST in raw terms, but as a % of their total income, less than low income earners…

  52. oh – Here we go again ‘the pot calling the kettle black’
    Abbott the liar , he has come a long second, Juliar Gillard has it by lots more than
    a long nose. Australias No 1 liar in fact – the nickname has even stuck.
    It seems quite clear what ALP stands for – Australia Liars Party.
    I have not mentioned the corruption levels – it seems the sole voice of Senator
    John Faulkner’s honesty is being dismissed.
    How do you feel about his reforms?
    Or are they too demanding eg ‘one strike and your out for any Labor member
    found guilty of corrupt behaviour’ One must conclude the already small NSW
    Labor branch will diminish to minute size if implemented.
    Once again his caution conceded ‘without the move Labor faced an
    Electoral hit’

  53. Well Wilkie says Gillard walked away from her promise

    http://www.andrewwilkie.org/content/index.php/aw/issues_policy_extended/poker_machines

    In January 2012 the Gillard Government walked away from its agreement with Andrew to introduce mandatory pre-commitment on poker machines by the end of 2014. Instead the Government announced a watered-down package of reforms including the introduction of voluntary pre-commitment as well as a trial of mandatory pre-commitment in the Australian Capital Territory.

    After forcing the Government to improve its watered-down poker machine package Andrew will reluctantly support the reform. The amendments Andrew insisted on to the National Gambling Reform Bill will help ensure the independence of the trial and help ensure that poker machines are ready to convert to mandatory pre-commitment – a tool to help problem gamblers control their losses – at the flick of a switch.

    Andrew’s reluctant support for the watered-down pokies reform does not mean he has restored his support for the Federal Government. He remains independent and unaligned and approaches all issues on their merits.”

  54. Well Wilkie says Gillard walked away from her promise. This from his website

    In January 2012 the Gillard Government walked away from its agreement with Andrew to introduce mandatory pre-commitment on poker machines by the end of 2014. Instead the Government announced a watered-down package of reforms including the introduction of voluntary pre-commitment as well as a trial of mandatory pre-commitment in the Australian Capital Territory.

    After forcing the Government to improve its watered-down poker machine package Andrew will reluctantly support the reform. The amendments Andrew insisted on to the National Gambling Reform Bill will help ensure the independence of the trial and help ensure that poker machines are ready to convert to mandatory pre-commitment – a tool to help problem gamblers control their losses – at the flick of a switch.

    Andrew’s reluctant support for the watered-down pokies reform does not mean he has restored his support for the Federal Government. He remains independent and unaligned and approaches all issues on their merits.”

  55. Still doesn’t meet the criteria of a lie Neil. As has been explained to you over and over and over and over and…., Ms Gillard tried very hard to get Mr Wilkie’s pokies proposals through the parliament. He was disappointed that she was unable to achieve that for him, BUT she did not tell a lie when making the promise to him.

    Specifically, she made a statement that was true at the time she made it, and was not attempting to deceive Mr Wilkie. She was 100% determined to implement the reforms when she signed the agreement, and before the rich pokies lobby went to work with their dishonest $20 million campaign against Mr Wilkie’s reforms…

  56. Ms Gillard tried very hard to get Mr Wilkie’s pokies proposals through the parliament.”

    She should have never made the promise. As head of govt she has the numbers to get anything through Parliament. I seem to recall you people bragging about how much legislation Gillard has passed.

    It was bald faced lie because she new her backbenchers were against it

    and before the rich pokies lobby went to work with their dishonest $20 million campaign against Mr Wilkie’s reforms…”

    So she lied. The pokkies lobby forced her to change her mind. It is amazing that an advertising campaign can change the votes of Labor MP’s

  57. Neil spot on – Labor again influenced by loss of votes not truth and honesty
    in Government. Hold Government at any cost is their fundamentalism.
    Bacchus- – so intoxicated by her rivetting personality and perversion Ms Dillard
    can do no evil. This my friend is called bigotry

  58. Iain, scaper, treetroll and Voyager, i don’t have a problem with people who can’t keep a promise because circumstances change. It happens to everybody.

    I do have a problem when Liealot and his barrackers say it’s fine for him to go back on his word because circumstances have changed, but castigate and smear Gillard for the very same thing.

    As head of govt she has the numbers to get anything through Parliament

    Ahem, Neil. The government does not have the numbers in the Senate. Yet another example of barrackers bending the truth to support a smear.

    Pokies reform was part of the ALP platform at the last election, so agreeing to support Wilkie was a no brainer.

    Unfortunately, the Liars Party, which is beholden to big gambling, refused to support the legislation that Wilkie and the government wanted, with the result that it would not have passed the Lower or Upper Houses.

    Gillard, not one to bury her head in the ground, has taken a different tack and introduced a watered down bill. However, I believe this is just the first tranche and we will eventually see stronger legislation introduced.

    And fwiw,I notice Wilkie hasn’t withdrawn support for the government in favour of Liealot, so it’s pretty obvious how he rates Liealot’s honesty.

    Once again, nice try, but no cigar. Try coming up with something original that at least resembles the truth, no matter how distantly, and stop constantly vomiting forth the same old Liars Party lies, innuendo, smear and plain old bullshit.

    Truth not truthiness will serve you better, but I don’t suppose you are able to recognise the difference.

  59. Mr, Howard did not get the GST through he wanted to. He did not get the changes to Mabo that he wanted.

    No PM does, unless they have control of both houses. Yes, he did get through Workchoice and we can see the mess that was. Most of the problems that have arisen in FWA, are in parts lifted from Workchoices.

    Our democracy works on the supposition that MP’s vote, and what gets the numbers become law. The PM or parties are not mentioned in the Constitution.

    It works best, when closely balanced. The MP’s job is to ensure the best gets through. No, the PM does not have the power of a dictator, nor should they.

    We have a minority government in both houses. We have a PM getting legislation through with little challenge or alteration. Please,. Why is this so.

    Can only suspect, we have a very lazy and ineffectual opposition.

  60. Neil, saying you had your figures audited when you did not, is a blatant lie.

    We know this is true, because the firm was fined for giving misinformation.

    That is before we even get to the numbers, and that great big black hole.

  61. Jane

    Iain, scaper, treetroll and Voyager, I don’t have a problem with people who can’t keep a promise because circumstances change. It happens to everybody.
    I do have a problem when Liealot and his barrackers say it’s fine for him to go back on his word because circumstances have changed, but castigate and smear Gillard for the very same thing.

    Yes Jane I can appreciate the point you are making. However Gillard’s performance over her Carbon Tax back-flip (with pike) was far from dignified, with her firstly attempting to deny that her position had changed and when that strategy was unconvincing she carried on with it for ages before she finally admitted to the betrayal of her pre-election commitment. It was that lack of good grace that did in her credibility in much more than her change of heart.

    As head of govt she has the numbers to get anything through Parliament

    Ahem, Neil. The government does not have the numbers in the Senate. Yet another example of barrackers bending the truth to support a smear.

    Neil is essentially right Jane although a few things will not be endorsed by her partners the Greens they are a very insignificant part of that mountain of legislation that has been passed by her government (and you lefties keep insisting is the measure of an effective administration).

    Pokies reform was part of the ALP platform at the last election, so agreeing to support Wilkie was a no brainer.

    Unfortunately, the Liars Party, which is beholden to big gambling, refused to support the legislation that Wilkie and the government wanted, with the result that it would not have passed the Lower or Upper Houses.

    Haven’t you worked out yet that the opposition is not obliged to vote for any government measure?

    Gillard, not one to bury her head in the ground, has taken a different tack and introduced a watered down bill. However, I believe this is just the first tranche and we will eventually see stronger legislation introduced.

    You base this claim on what precisely?

    And fwiw,I notice Wilkie hasn’t withdrawn support for the government in favour of Liealot, so it’s pretty obvious how he rates Liealot’s honesty.

    Wilkie is running his own race Jane and revelling in the importance of his vote in this parliament so don’t kid yourself that he won’t do deals with the coalition when it suits him to do so.

    Once again, nice try, but no cigar. Try coming up with something original that at least resembles the truth, no matter how distantly, and stop constantly vomiting forth the same old Liars Party lies, innuendo, smear and plain old bullshit.

    calling out the Labor party is entirely sensible and justified by their performance .

    Truth not truthiness will serve you better, but I don’t suppose you are able to recognise the difference.

    Well the former is a real word and the latter is something you have made up 😉

  62. Right wingers are the funniest cove on the planet. Now I know the members of the Labor party tells lies, they are politicians it is the nature of the beast. But the right wing num nuts that get on this ere blog have the unmitigated gall, to try and tell us the members of their beloved Liberal party don’t

    I wouldn’t mind, but the lies that have been recorded by members of the Liberal party are, set in stone, in Hansard, in the government archives, and even in a muddled mind like mine, even when I have been pissed as the proverbial fart, those lies will no doubt be in my sub conscience until they lower me into my grave.

    Now there lies and there are lies, but right wingers give some lies a whole new meaning, the results of some of them lies will be seared into my brain until I die. OBTW I’m not a pacifist, I have been known to remove some people’s teeth for so offending my good self or my family. But when I see children with their bowels hanging out over their night dresses in places like Iraq, and the parents of the said children weeping into a state absolute desperation. Or a truck load of kids sent off to be buried in Afghanistan and this being done in my name, well that’s the biggest lie of all. Yep take Vietnam my era same bullshit, different time, same lies. Right wing lies. Liberal party lies.

    And before you insult my intelligence, No, I didn’t support any members of the Labor party who supported any of the above. The ones that did, are just as much a load nauseating scum bags as the Liberal party.

    Liberal party telling lies….. .Like forever..

  63. Iain take a couple of Aspirins and go and lay down and have a rest. You are having more of those Hallucinations you are famous for.

  64. Abbott knows very well that the carbon price is not a tax (as do the trolls). He himself made the distinction in the 2009 interview on Sky News when he advocated a tax on petrol. Calling the carbon price a tax is the biggest lie of all, as it underpins the whole Abbott/troll strategy of maintaining Gillard is a liar.

  65. ……………………..Steve Lewis seems to think that whatever piece of trash has blown out of a window at FWA and landed in his lap should be taken as gospel truth. Not unlike Tony Abbott’s excuses for the slush fund he ran that ended with Pauline Hanson going to jail so you didn’t get a chance to vote for her ― gospel truth indeed. Welcome to democracy in action, Coalition style…….

    http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/jacksonville-33-inspecting-lewis/

  66. Off your Treeman
    December 9, 2012 @ 8:38 am

    Left wing shadow boxers have impaired memory! In computer language, garbage in equals garbage out. This wreaks havoc with RAM, rendering software useless. In layman terms this is described as a soft brain!

    Well I am actually qualified to diagnose this problem and I think your suffering from a serious virus Off your treeman…

    In Laymans terms,
    1: your antiquated operating system needs to be updated.
    2: you have less ram than is recommended for a functional operating system,
    3: your in a constant state of CRC conflict
    4: You have an inability to retrieve effective integral data most is unreadable
    5: You frequently blue screen.
    6: Your locked in a data loop.
    7: Your trying to boot from a floppy unreadable media.

    My diagnoses is you need a four pass zero striped wipe and reformat and an upgrade to a faster, progressive system with data integrity, upgrade form Fiberal 1956 to Labor 2013

  67. … ”It is a way to limit the stuff-ups and scandals obviously, but it seems a little draconian to me,” the MP said.

    ”I wouldn’t go as far as to say this is a free speech issue, but if I was pushed to close my account outright? Then you would hear from me loud and clear. On Twitter and elsewhere.”

    Another MP said the decision was ”outrageous” and a ”result of a bunch of nervous nellies in the head office who think we aren’t capable of running our own offices without falling over our own feet.”

    Full story http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/liberals-slap-social-media-gag-on-mps-20121208-2b2eo.html

    😆

  68. Unfortunately, the Liars Party, which is beholden to big gambling, refused to support the legislation that Wilkie and the government wanted

    I do not think this is correct. It was the Gillard govt that did not support what Wilkie wanted. Gillard lied. She knew her Caucas would not support it. Lots of Clubs are ALP supporters.

    This is what Wilkie has on his website

    In January 2012 the Gillard Government walked away from its agreement with Andrew to introduce mandatory pre-commitment on poker machines by the end of 2014. Instead the Government announced a watered-down package of reforms including the introduction of voluntary pre-commitment as well as a trial of mandatory pre-commitment in the Australian Capital Territory.

    After forcing the Government to improve its watered-down poker machine package Andrew will reluctantly support the reform. The amendments Andrew insisted on to the National Gambling Reform Bill will help ensure the independence of the trial and help ensure that poker machines are ready to convert to mandatory pre-commitment – a tool to help problem gamblers control their losses – at the flick of a switch.

    Andrew’s reluctant support for the watered-down pokies reform does not mean he has restored his support for the Federal Government. He remains independent and unaligned and approaches all issues on their merits.”

  69. scaper, why would you say that. T believe we are relaxed and becoming more confident each day, Yes that glass is half full or more.

  70. Before the 1998 election, John Howard proposed a GST that would replace sales taxes, as well as applying to all goods and services. The Howard Government finished on a two-party-preferred vote of 49 per cent at the election to Labor’s 51 per cent, however, retained a parliamentary majority of seats in the lower house. Howard described win as a mandate for the GST. Lacking a majority in the Senate and with Labor opposed to the GST, Howard turned to the Australian Democrats and the Independents for support.

    During the election campaign, Democrat’s leader Meg Lees stated that her party opposed the GST unless food would be exempt. After the election Howard refused to budge on this, thinking he may have won the support of the Independents, but eventually reached a compromise with Lees.

    So my date was wrong, but I don’t think the message was.

    Before the 1998 election, John Howard proposed a GST that would replace sales taxes, as well as applying to all goods and services. The Howard Government finished on a two-party-preferred vote of 49 per cent at the election to Labor’s 51 per cent, however, retained a parliamentary majority of seats in the lower house. Howard described win as a mandate for the GST. Lacking a majority in the Senate and with Labor opposed to the GST, Howard turned to the Australian Democrats and the Independents for support.

    During the election campaign, Democrat’s leader Meg Lees stated that her party opposed the GST unless food would be exempt. After the election Howard refused to budge on this, thinking he may have won the support of the Independents, but eventually reached a compromise with Lees.

  71. I’ve seen long bows drawn but that has to be one the stupidest long bow comparisons ever.

    That clip also has a hidden hijacking element by the way. Might be nothing.

  72. If Howard lied then so did Gillard with her CO2 tax statement.

    scaper, she promised to impose a price on carbon emissions and she has done so. Quite how you can call that lying is a mystery to anyone. Perhaps you can explain how doing what you said you would do constitutes a lie.

    I’m sure we are all agog to know how this can be so. Oh, hang on. Of course, in Liarspeak, keeping your word IS a lie. Takes a while to understand the workings of the dingbat brain.

    ME @9.23am, Keating wanted to introduce a broad based consumption tax in 1985, but it was vetoed by Bob Hawke.

    Neil, pokies reform was part of the ALP platform at the last election, so if the backbenchers were against it, they had ample time to make their feelings known.

    Neither Oakeshott nor Windsor supported the legislation and the Liars Party, with the support of big gambling, campaigned against its introduction. Hence the watered down legislation

    As for support, Wilkie, like Windsor and Oakeshott, is a free agent to vote as he wishes.

    I’m sure that if he’d introduced a private members bill, the government would have supported it, but it would not have been supported by the Liars or the other Independents and would have failed in the HoR.

    Certainly the legislation is not what he wanted, but it was never going to pass in either house.

    Beating your head against a brick wall obviously seems pointless to the PM, so she’s regrouped and approached the problem from a different angle.

  73. “Neil, pokies reform was part of the ALP platform at the last election, so if the backbenchers were against it, they had ample time to make their feelings known.

    Talk about being a brain dead tribal loyalist. Gillard lied. Get it, she lied.

    http://www.andrewwilkie.org/content/pdf/letter_to_the_electorate_Jan_2012.pdf

    The 2010 federal election gave no majority to the Labor Party or the Liberal/National Coalition and it was up to the six ‘independents’ elected to the House of Representatives to decide who would form government. I decided to give limited support to Labor which helped it form government. My written agreement with the Prime Minister ran to eight pages……………However last month the Gillard Government declared it would not implement the agreed pokies reform and
    instead announced a much watered down package. This put the Government in breach of its agreement with me, and left me with no option but to withdraw support.
    Frankly, a deal’s a deal and it must be honoured.

    You lot brag about how much legislation Labor has got through Parliament. Her own backbenchers were against it. Gillard lied to win govt. She could get it through the lower house if she wanted to,

  74. Migs Neil is doing a “look over there” at Gillard so as to distract from all the Howard and Abbott lies being exposed. It’s an old not very subtle trick of his, changing subjects and bringing up straw men when the truth on his beloved leaders gets too close to the bone.

  75. Lol @ Migs:

    Neil, when I named this post ‘Tell me lies’ it wasn’t exactly a personal invitation to you. :mrgreen:

  76. Some here just dont get it, Ms Dullard seems to get away with lots of lies.
    Will her party ever pull her into line? Good luck Sen John Faulkner.
    (Thats one reform you will never get.)
    Guess not corruption , even lieing to ICAC here in NSW seems the norm for
    ALP operatives.By the end of 2013 they can have a Party meeting in Gaol.
    See if Ms Dullard gets away with it in 2013 when it really counts.
    The Electoral Box results do not lie.

  77. voyager, maybe the PM is much of what you say.

    The one thinbg she is not, is dullard, whatever that means..

    The PM has outwitted Abbott on every one of his moves.

    The PM is still in power, still setting the agenda. Still getting the states to come on board.

    A dull person could not achieve this.

    If the PM is dull, what does that make Mr. Abbott and the Opposition.
    The PM’s popularity is growing.

    Mr. Abbott is going south.

  78. CU,

    When RWFs call the Prime Minister a dullard, it’s a case of Right Wing Projection. You’ll notice that the stupider the RWF the more they use the term to depict their opponents.

  79. You lot brag about how much legislation Labor has got through Parliament. Her own backbenchers were against it. Gillard lied to win govt. She could get it through the lower house if she wanted to,

    Perhaps you could explain how this is so, if the government can’t get the votes on the floor in either House.

    It should be possible to get it through the Lower house IF all the Independents were onside, but they’re not. But if government backbenchers voted against it, how would if be passed?

    Blind us all with your superior knowledge, Neil. How do you get a piece of legislation passed if you can’t get enough votes to pass it?

    I’m sure the PM would be delighted to know how to perform that particular miracle. Should she have attended Hogwarts, perhaps?

  80. How do you get a piece of legislation passed if you can’t get enough votes to pass it?”

    Well you don’t make the promise in the first place. Do you read anything I post??

    This from Wilkie

    However last month the Gillard Government declared it would not implement the agreed pokies reform and instead announced a much watered down package.”

    She could get her backbenchers to agree with this.

    As head of the ALP Gillard lied to Wilkie to get his vote to form govt. She knew her own backbenchers were against Wilkie’s reforms but lied to him to get his support to form govt. Her backbenchers have only agreed to watered down reforms. And Wilkie has reluctantly agreed.

  81. News flash, Neil. It’s not the back benchers who have forced the change, you twat. It’s the Liars and the Independents.

    As I’ve said several times, pokies reform is part of the ALP policy platform, so the backbenchers must have agreed to pokies reform.

    It’s more than obvious that YOU don’t read anything I, or any other posters here, write, or you would know not only that but that Windsor, Oakeshott and the WA Nat didn’t support Wilkie’s proposal and without that support it won’t get to first base.

  82. News flash, Neil. It’s not the back benchers who have forced the change, you twat. It’s the Liars and the Independents.”

    It is the backbenchers who forced the change. They refused to back Gillards promise to Wilkie.

    From Wilkie

    However last month the Gillard Government declared it would not implement the agreed pokies reform and instead announced a much watered down package.”

  83. Neil the PM got through what was possible. After all, politics is just that, the art of the possible.

    The PM did this, in spite of the extreme campaign against any legalization, in every club across the nation. Well maybe not WA, there they find they can do without them.

    Once things like this get to the first step, time sees the laws becoming more effective, such as the ongoing campaign against tobacco.

    Yes, it is a slow process, but some things are better done that way. Would like to see the government speed up a campaign against the misuse of alcohol.

    Nice to hear the Keating Redfern speech being replayed today. The first time, a speech in which we took responsibility for what our forefathers did to the indigenous nation.

  84. I think I’ve said this before…..but it’s still worth repeating

    Time and again we hear it said
    Tony Abbott can’t lie straight in bed.
    He can though lie with a straight face
    Such that Virgin Mary would grant him grace.

    Always denouncing Labor’s carbon tax
    While carefully not disclosing facts
    That he had plans for one himself
    Which for the moment’s on the shelf.

    But that’s not unusual form from him,
    When his chances are looking slim
    He’ll dream up any scheme or policy
    With no concern for our democracy.

    Just to guarantee an election win,
    With plans to scrap it once he’s in,
    He put ‘Direct Action’ on the map
    After consistently proclaiming, “Climate change is crap!”

  85. The Diary

    “Top job ‘offered to end probe’

    AWB inquiry allegations
    Former AFP senior officer Ross Fusca alleges the police inquiry into the AWB’s oil-for-food scandal was never given enough resources and was shut down prematurely

    THE man who led the Australian Federal Police investigation into the AWB oil-for-food scandal has alleged he was offered a promotion in return for shutting down the probe.

    In an explosive statement lodged in the Federal Court, former AFP agent Ross Fusca said another senior officer had told him that if he could ”make the oil-for-food taskforce go away, he would be appointed as next co-ordinator”.

    Click here to read the Australian Federal Police’s response to questions posed by The Age.

    Former AFP agent Ross Fusca. Photo: Jason South
    Mr Fusca, a 30-year AFP veteran, has declared the inquiry was never given enough resources and was shut down prematurely.

    And he has claimed the police’s AWB taskforce – which ran between late 2006 and August 2009 – had a high-level political informant who indicated that federal government officials had been aware of AWB’s payment of kickbacks.

    In an interview with The Age and ABC television’s 7.30 program, Mr Fusca said he believed the offer of a promotion represented an improper inducement.

    Mr Fusca’s Federal Court statement also alleges that a day after the offer of promotion was made, another senior AFP officer had pressured him to finish the taskforce’s work prematurely.

    Court documents state: “[The officer] insisted that the brief be completed by April 2009, claiming that the taskforce was out of budget. The applicant [Mr Fusca] maintained his position that an April 2009 deadline for the brief was unachievable” and that the earliest it could be finished was December 2009.

    In a statement sent to The Age last night, the AFP said it was aware of Mr Fusca’s claims in the court but it could not comment on ongoing judicial proceedings….
    and

    ….But Mr Fusca said a credible political informant had provided the AFP with intelligence that suggested ”senior government officials were aware … of the kickbacks”.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/top-job-offered-to-end-probe-20120606-1zwrh.html#ixzz2EbZ7lUQ2

    Yep, made sure the lies did not get out. The Liberals seem to have no concern about putting their fingers into law enforcement agencies, whether it was the in the case against the Indian doctor, who they locked after the UK bombings, or what they are responsible for the themselves. No respect for the separation of powers between the legal and political arms of society,

    How many police inquiries across the nation are in play, because of their interference. How many have produced any results. More important, do the Liberals exoect any results. Just having the inquiries fulfills their agenda, Using the legal system as a political tool. The same occurred during the children overboard saga.

    Wonder who they are after, in relation to that bombing thirty years ago. I seem to recall, innocent men serve jail for the bombings.

    Abbott now on with his daily spiel. Same old tripe. Going to do everything better. yak yak yak….

  86. Cannot deliver a surplus, because they cannot control the borders….. Even with the increase in this matter, what percent would it be it the many trillions spent each year in our budget.

    Good sounding motherhood statements nothing more. Note I said, motherhood sounding statements. Sadly when looked at, his do not make sense. None at all.

    ABC 24. The coalition has a good story to tell young and old. Yes, a good story, pity it will be found in the fiction section of the book store,

  87. Neil the PM got through what was possible.

    No. It was possible to get Wilkies reforms through Parliament. Gillard did not want to do it because her own backbench would have voted against it. Gillard would have been humilated in Parliament. Gillard should never have made a promise she could not keep to win govt.

    I see you have mentioned AWB again. Labor supporters bring up the same talking points over and over and over again with nothing new to present. You people are the masters at smearing people. With the AWB thing i still cannot see how bribing Saddam was useful. Food was being sold to Iraq under the UN OIL FOR FOOD PROGRAMME since 1995. Lots of companies wanted the business. To bribe Saddam to get the business, Saddam would then have to bribe someone in the UN to make sure AWB got the business. The fact that Rudd in govt did nothing about AWB makes me think that nothing wrong was done.

  88. Yes, I believe it is true. If one can get those many millions of young onto the rolls, the Liberals would be in trouble. Also, a reversal of that massive deliberate informal vote in Sydney at the last election, would not favour the Coalition. It was Mr. Latham that stirred that one up, saying he would be voting informal. The numbers suggest, many followed him.

    I doubt whether that would be Mr. Latham’s choice this time, as he has written words that actually support the PM.

    ……Newspoll surveys indicate the coalition’s primary vote would slip by 1.5 percentage points if the ‘youth vote’ increased.

    An analysis of Newspoll surveys indicates the coalition’s primary vote would slip by 1.5 percentage points if those eligible to vote but not enrolled – mainly young people – were enrolled, The Australian reports.

    As many as a dozen Liberal and Nationals seats could come into play if Labor and the Australian Greens could mobilise the ‘youth vote’, the paper said.

    The coalition holds 10 seats with a margin of less than two per cent. The most vulnerable are the Liberal-held Boothby in South Australia (0.3 per cent); Hasluck in Western Australia (0.6 per cent); and Aston in Victoria (0.7 per cent).

    Brisbane (1.1 per cent) and Solomon in Darwin (1.8 per cent) have a high proportion of students and young workers, while Herbert in far north Queensland (2.1 per cent) and Swan in Perth (2.5 per cent) have very high proportion of young people of voting age…………….

    http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=824820

    Mr, Howard made many changes to how we vote, that make if harder for Labor. It is time to reverse the length of time the rolls are left open, after a election is called.

  89. ……….They could easily affect the outcome in a tightly held seat. The result in around half a dozen seats could be determined by these enrolment changes.’

    The past four federal elections may have been decided by voters aged 18-34, about 30 per cent of the electorate, a Whitlam Institute study last year of Newspoll data over 14 years found. And there are 1.5 million ‘missing’ voters – 9.5 per cent of eligible voters, The Australian Electoral Commission estimates.

    Prof McAllister analysed four special Newspoll surveys covering 4857 adults. The …….coalition’s primary vote slipped from 40.3 per cent to 38.8 per cent when adding in direct enrolments; Labor’s vote edged up a single notch to 34.9 per cent; and the Greens rose from 10.9 per cent to 11.5 per cent………
    http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=824820

    I suspect this age group is not being picked up in the polls. Could be wrong.

  90. Yes, Mr. Abbott was out there this morning with his lies about the need for surplus.

    Also saying the economy is bad and many other disasters he claims this government is responsible for. Thankfully these disasters only exist in the eyes of Mr. Abbott and his ilk.

    It is reassuring that the reality is, we are travelling well. Yes, dangers on the horizon, but with this government, we could hope they make the right decisions, not ones that send us into the mire.

    ………It was a joke of course, but a joke which underlined the Government’s fierce resolve not to lose the political debate over which side of the ledger the Budget accounting ends up.

    This raises the question of whether the political point scoring by both sides is good for the national welfare. It is appropriate to point out during the general interest in Mayan final days that it would not mean the end of the world were the Budget outcome for this current year to slip slightly into the red.

    In economic terms, the difference between a $1.1 billion surplus, the latest forecast, and a $1.1 billion deficit would be so minor as to be non-existent. The financial ratings agencies would not waste ink on rewriting the nation’s AAA status.

    But that $2 billion – the surplus plus the spending into the red – could be put to good use in an economy which is slowing, better use than sitting on a shelf propping up a trophy surplus.

    The Government has been unable to do things it wants – and voters want – because it can’t spare the money. It has ripped what cash it can from the hollow logs and unessential projects of the public service, and faces the politically dangerous task of evaluating frontline services themselves, or raising taxes.

    And it is getting tougher to con,…..

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/betting-the-house-on-a-matter-of-semantics/

  91. Heil, it was not possible. This is a minority government

    The minority is the word you do not seem to understand.

    It governments with the support of the Greens and Independents.

    Not enough Independents were willing to vote for Mr. Wilkie’s bill.

    Like prudent leaders do, including Mr. Howard in his day, one negotiates to get through what they can.

    That is all that has occurred. Nothing unusual with that.

    The leader does not have or should have the powers of a dictator, which you seem to believe is the way it should work.

    Each electorate votes for an MP. This MP has the mandate from those voters, to use in the house.

    Yes, not PM’s, not parties, but the vote of individual MPs is what create laws.

    Is that too hard to understand.

    The fact that this PM has managed to get so much through, and that the government is still standing after two and half years, is testimony to her skills.

    Yes, it is a duly elected government that represents the will of the voters at the last election.

    Mr Abbott had his chance, but ignored or rejected what the electors voted for. He just did not understand or have the skills to take over.

    Labor did not agree to anything that was not in their platform by the way.

  92. The fact that this PM has managed to get so much through”

    Exactly. And she could have passed Wilkies legislation like she promised. She reneged on the deal because her own backbench were against it.

    She lied to Wilkie to win govt.

  93. Achmed says: 06:02am | 10/12/12
    This is how Howard and the Libs got the surplus, not through good management but by selling assetts.
    Telstra: $30.24 billion, Australian airports: $8.5 billion Commonwealth Bank: $5.15 billion Reserve Bank gold assets: 167 tonnes sold for $2.4 billion,National Rail Corporation and Freightcorp: $1.05 bn, Broadcast Australia: $650 million, DASFLEET: $407 million. Telecommunications spectrum: about $1.3 billion received, Radio licence spectrum: $1 billion, Property portfolio 59 sites: for $1 billion
    Total value from sales: $51.7 billion

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/betting-the-house-on-a-matter-of-semantics/

    Comment from another site, sums up how Mr. Costello did it. Yep selling off ones assets to pay bills is the way to go. The trouble is that there are few left to sell.

  94. Ricky,

    Does anyone really believe that Abbott will (cut powers bills). I firmly believe that the public has very low expectations of Mr. Abbott therefore we are likely to see a big turn around in the polls closer to the election and it changes from a let’s get Gillard scenario to what happens if Abbott really does become prime minister.

  95. No, Neil, not enough Independents on the cross bench. You can twist it any way you like, but this is the reality.

    The coalition went with the Poker Machine industry. I know this because I listened to the debate, Not one sided with the addicts.

    I actually posted comments during the debate, pointing this fact out.

  96. Neil, the PM could not have passed Wilkie’s proposal in its then current form as both of the Independents Windsor and Oakeshott stated that they would not support it due to their concerns as to the impact on small country clubs.

  97. Neil, the PM got so much through with the support of all the Independents,

    She did not have the numbers this time. Mr. Wilkie should have worked harder to convince them. It was his bill in the end. Mr, Wilkie was unable to do so. If he did, the bill would have gone forward.

    This PM does not intend to leave any DD bills on the books. A very prudent action.

    Neil, in this case, it is a black and white matter. The PM had the numbers on the floor of the house, or the PM did not.

    Maybe one should say, that Mr. Wilkie had the numbers or he did not, Mr. Wilkie could have introduced the bill himself, if he really believed he could get it through.

    Suspect Mr. Wilkie is playing a little politics. Seems happy with the bill that has passed.

  98. 21/jan/12
    The government is now working on securing numbers for legislation that will introduce a trial of mandatory precommitment.

    If the trial, set to be held in the ACT, was shown to help problem gamblers it would be implemented in the rest of the country. This proposal is understood to be targeted at the independents Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor, who will not vote for the Wilkie proposal.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/scramble-to-woo-oakeshott-windsor-on-pokie-reform-20120120-1qa8d.html#ixzz2EbrI6gSN

  99. Neil is just playing troll now CU. He knows full well that Ms Gillard did not lie – he’s just repeating that line because it stirs up the locals here 😉

  100. Well, we need to thank him for allowing us to explain in detail what the PM has achieved and how well she has done.

    I get pleasure out of doing that, as one can rely on facts, to get the message out.

    Good feeling.

  101. To some extent I agree CU, but we have explained all that fully over and over and over and… There’s no more life in this parrot 😀

  102. Bacchus, not that interested in what Neil or his cohorts think. Get pleasure in talking about what the PM has already achieved. If she was deposed tomorrow, history will treat her well.

    Look at who is getting credit today, that much viled and hated PM, named Kearing.

    Could never understand why labor turned on him.

    Even Mr. Howard today, credits Mr. Keating with what he achieved.

    Wonder if Neil has noticed, all the other visitors have deserted him, left him on his own.

    If Neil believes what he is spruiking he must be a unhappy and lonely soul indeed.

  103. Another lie from Mr. Pyne today. His government would have kept the budget in surplus for the last five years.

    Thankfully this did not occur.I like being out in front of the rest of the western world,

    WAYNE Swan has branded the Coalition’s economic claims as “delusional” while refusing to concede his own promised budget surplus is slipping away.

    Opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne today claimed the Coalition would have kept the budget in the black in each of the past five years.
    “I think most people accept that we would have had continuing surpluses,” he told Sky News.

    “We would have had money in the bank.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/barbs-traded-over-deficit-threat/story-fn59nsif-1226533701635

  104. ……………The Treasurer said: “Christopher Pyne wants to pretend that the global financial crisis never happened, the European sovereign debt crisis never happened, the fiscal cliff in the United States is not looming; these people are delusional.”

    Labor has promised to deliver a narrow surplus in 2012-13. The pledge is based on the maintenance of trend growth at 3 per cent.

    Swan steadfast despite doubts

    But the latest national accounts released last week showed the economy grew at just 2.2 per cent over the past six months.

    Mr Swan today said he had no intention of adjusting his budget forecasts in the near term.

    “We don’t redo our budgets every month when new data comes out,” he said.

    “We have a look at what’s going on but where you’ve got an economy with low unemployment, growth around trend, strong investment pipeline, then it’s appropriate we return to surplus.”

    Tony Abbott said the government was “crab walking away” from its commitment to deliver a surplus.

    “A Coalition government gets the budget into surplus, it pays down debt, it produces assets,” he said.

    “That is the kind of good economic management which provides the kind of social dividend which Australia came to enjoy under the Howard government.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/barbs-traded-over-deficit-threat/story-fn59nsif-1226533701635

    Who is lying, or at the very least exaggerating????

  105. So ensuring the electoral rolls are up to date, and all are enrolled,is rorting the system.

    Coalition labels voter law changes an attempted rort
    BY: LANAI VASEK From: The Australian December 10, 2012 1:20PM 19

    THE Coalition has accused Labor of trying to “rort” the electoral roll to boost its standing at the next election on the back of law changes allowing automatic voter enrolment.

    Manager of opposition business Christopher Pyne said it was “routine” for Labor to attempt to “tip the scales in their own favour if they can” when it came to elections and said eligible voters should be required to present identification to enrol and vote in elections.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-labels-voter-law-changes-a-rort/story-fn59niix-1226533445981

  106. Another Abbott lie. They just keep a coming.

    …………Energy retailers say consumers won’t see instant cuts in their power bills if the carbon tax is abolished.
    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott insists the scrapping of the government’s carbon pricing laws under a future coalition government would “instantly” reduce electricity bills by 10 per cent.
    But Energy Retailers Association of Australia chief Cameron O’Reilly says that’s not the case……..

    and

    ………..The carbon component of the wholesale price, which retailers pass on to customers, involves energy from a range of sources such as coal, gas, hydro and wind – all with different carbon intensities.
    “Also there are a number of assumptions about how this is passed on to the consumer,” Mr O’Reilly said.
    Estimates and modelling of the potential impact of the carbon price varied between state and federal governments as well as industry.
    Retailers had also locked in the carbon price in “hedges”, so that could also take time to flow through.
    Network and wholesale costs and green schemes had contributed to recent price rises in energy bills, Mr O’Reilly said………….

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/news/abbott-cant-instantly-cut-power-bills-energy-retailers

  107. Neil, I call bullshit on your claim that backbenchers forced the PM to alter the pokies legislation. You know it’s bullshit, but still you persist. Or should I just come straight out and say you have lied?

    Either way, you’re wrong. Pokies reform was part of the ALP platform, at the last election and still is.

    Wilkie’s bill certainly could have got through if Windsor and Oakeshott had supported it, but they didn’t. Gillard would not have been aware of this when she made the agreement with Wilkie.

    As CU wrote above, Wilkie should also have been out trying to get his fellow Independents on side and he always had the option of introducing his bill as a private members bill.

    So get your hand off it, Neil and stop the bullshit. You’ll feel much better if you tell the truth.

    “A Coalition government gets the budget into surplus, it pays down debt, it produces assets,” he said.

    Liealot is a lie machine, isn’t he, CU? I’d like him to name one asset the Rodentochracy produced. Oh, hang on, maybe it was all those flagpoles. :mrgreen:

    Yep, it’s always a great idea to sell off your assets, especially the ones that are producing revenue. Real f*cken smart!!!

    Liars Party economics 101. Sell the farm so we can have a surplus while the country goes down the gurgler.

    Thank God they weren’t in charge when the GFC cranked up. their only answer would have been to give massive tax cuts to the well heeled. A fat lot of good tax cuts are if you’re unemployed.

    Hi Baccy! How are your good self and Mrs Baccy? In the pink, I hope.

  108. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 9, 2012 @ 9:56 PM

    You got anything intelligent to say??
    Yeah..fuck off you bullshitting factless troll

    You really should apologise for this statement
    Why are you feeling hurt? That Post Howard abuse syndrome kicked in?

    Sorry to have to tell you to fuck off you bullshitting factless troll

    You come into this blog like a monotonous flea in the ear of intelligent conversation promoting lies, propaganda and neocon rubbish and you want me to what?

    I’ll apologise to you when you vote green,or when John Howard apologises for fabrication of a lie to the Australian people over the “children Overboard” affair just before an election….., that’s’ fair.. .

    Nob of Sydney, Voyeur and Off his Treeman remind me of a treo of mormans who just keep knocking on your door “have you heard the word of our messiah John Howard today”….No fuck off he’s not the Messiah he’s just a former prime miniature.

  109. Mr. Abbott, I know you have to protect your mate, Max Wilton-Moore,

    It is not about a prank that have gone wrong, nor should it be made out to be.

    It is a crime, I believe to impersonate anyone, especially the Queen of England.

    It is a crime to tape a conversation without their knowledge.

    It invades the privacy of the patient

    The radio station then broke the law by broadcasting the tape.

    It is nothing about unforeseeable consequences.

    Fits in with the phone hacking in the UK.

  110. Jane,

    So get your hand off it, Neil and stop the bullshit. You’ll feel much better if you tell the truth.

    Fiberals would suffer withdrawal symptoms if they had to tell the truth.

  111. Christopher Pyne … “I was simply making the point that the Coalition’s economic management is better than Labor’s.”
    Christopher Pyne had his airbrush out yesterday – erasing the entire global financial crisis from Australia’s economic history.
    “Well if there had been a Coalition government for the last five years … I think most people accept that we would have had continuing surpluses,” he told Sky television.
    Actually most people do not accept that.
    In 2009, a forecast $20 billion surplus became a $57 billion deficit in part because Labor spent more than $50 billion as stimulus in the face of an international economic meltdown and in part because company tax revenue collapsed due to the financial crisis.
    Advertisement
    What Coalition leader Malcolm Turnbull said at the time was that we should have spent less on the stimulus – maybe $25 billion or $30 billion. The Coalition waved through the first $10.2 billion stimulus package but opposed the second $42 billion package on the basis that it was too big – and that spending of about $15 billion to $20 billion would have been more appropriate.
    It’s pretty safe to assume that revenue would have collapsed just the same, no matter who was in the Lodge…………..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/pyne-caught-redhanded-with-the-airbrush-20121210-2b4rq.html#ixzz2Ed2gwjLY

  112. Neil, maybe this is another lie.

    As for Mr. Pyne, he did say that he understood that he was not as bright, as others Mr. Howard gave jobs to.

    In retrospect, what Mr Turnbull said looks pretty smart (he also argued it was implausible to effectively and efficiently spend $16 billion on school halls in the timeframe proposed and that the pink batts scheme should be means-tested or require a co-contribution from the householders, which might have saved a whole lot of pain) But even if Australia had done exactly as the Coalition said we should do at the time, we’d still have come out of the crisis about $180 billion in debt, rather than $200 billion. And the nation would still have run very large budget deficits.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/pyne-caught-redhanded-with-the-airbrush-20121210-2b4rq.html#ixzz2Ed2yFMai

  113. Mr Pyne has every right to question where the Gillard government intends to get the money to pay for its promises on a national disability insurance scheme and the Gonski education reforms, and it is possible that a Coalition government might have now been in a better fiscal position. But breezy statements that the Coalition would have “got through the global financial crisis quite easily” do not match the facts.
    For the record, he told Fairfax Media we were were taking his statements “too literally . . . I was simply making the point that the Coalition’s economic management is better than Labor’s”.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/pyne-caught-redhanded-with-the-airbrush-20121210-2b4rq.html#ixzz2Ed4R0Tvo

  114. Whining Pyne ‘forgets’ the Coalition’s record on the economy during periods of global downturn.

    The last time they were in office during a severe global bust was the late ’70s early ’80s. Treasurer was John Howard. The Liberals presided over:

    *Double-digit unemployment
    * Double-digit interest rates
    * and Double-digit inflation

    … all at the same time!

    Debt and deficit that climbed year after year.

    And Australia’s worst recession since the Great Depression.

    That’s the basket-case state of the economy they handed over to Labor to fix in 1983.

  115. ……………Why not? Well, if the media had been reporting the whole affair conscientiously, rather than turning it into a comic-book contest between good guys and bad guys, ripoff merchants and impoverished victims, you’d already know why.
    The reason the banks haven’t been cutting deposit rates the way they’ve been cutting mortgage rates goes to the heart of their reason for not passing on official rate cuts in full. Since the onset of the global financial crisis in 2008, the banks have been locked in a battle to attract deposits from ordinary Australian savers.
    This battle has forced up the rates being paid to depositors. Whereas before the crisis the rates on at-call savings accounts were about 100 basis points below the official interest rate, today they’re on par with it. And whereas term-deposit ”specials” were below the equivalent rates paid in the wholesale market (bank bills), today they’re about 150 basis points above them.
    So, savers ought to be the last people complaining about the way events have transpired since the financial crisis changed the rules of the game. They’re laughing all the way to the bank………………………..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-hidden-truth-about-interest-rates-20121209-2b3ig.html#ixzz2Ed5BOLIt

  116. So we are not as bad off as we thought. We now have a safer banking system.

    It seems, no matter where one looks in this country’s economy, we are better off.

    If that is so, how can Mr. Abbott, keep his promise to fix a broken economy, when it is not broken.

    How can he make it better. He could not be lying, could he. Maybe he just does not understand or get it.

    .

    …Short answer: because the crisis revealed them to be dangerously dependent on foreign wholesale borrowing for their funds. So, the sharemarket and the credit rating agencies have forced them to lift their reliance on ”stickier” retail deposits to about 54 per cent of their total funding.
    But this means running a bank is now less risky than it was before the crisis. This, in turn, means their risk-adjusted rate of return on capital no longer needs to be as high as it was.
    So, the degree of competition among the banks is sufficient to force them to give depositors a much better deal, and sufficient to have them wanting to preserve their profitability (and their chief executives’ remuneration packages) relative to the others, but insufficient to force down their rates of return the way the textbook says should happen…….

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-hidden-truth-about-interest-rates-20121209-2b3ig.html#ixzz2Ed6Yiio2

  117. It was called stagflation. A word as bad as it sounds.

    It’s the outcome of Liberals ‘unique’ economic management. They are the ONLY party to bring Australia stagflation – the ruinous combination of recession and high inflation.

  118. Comment from another site, sums up how Mr. Costello did it. Yep selling off ones assets to pay bills is the way to go. The trouble is that there are few left to sell.”

    Catching up
    December 10, 2012 @ 12:32 pm

    Did you see the answer given to the comment you posted?? Well here it is

    Achmed,
    Actually Howard and Costello got their surpluses by spending less than the tax revenue they received. Those funds from asset sales went to help reducing Keatings $96 billion debt to having a zero net debt position.

    It is your comment posted at 12.32 why I call you people the most factually inaccurate people I have ever met. Furthermore I suspect you are just plain dishonest otherwise you would not have posted what you did. And even furthermore i do not think you care about being honest or truthful.

    Costello did sell govt assets but they were not put into the budget as revenue. They were used to pay off debt. Costello did this because he does not believe money from asset sales should be used for recurrent expenses which is what Keating did when he sold Qantas.

  119. Neil, I agree, he did that as well.

    He did not spend on Health, Education and most other essentials. Cut them to the bone.

    That is why we are now playing catch up, repairing the damage done.

    Did not mind spending on war or the upper income earners. No problems there.

    A little light on infrastructure as well.

    Did pay off debt with those sales, though. No good economics they say.

    Had a lot of help with a mining boom.

    Did not mind a bit of pork barrelling or vote buying along the way.

    Oh, I forgot, he loved to spend on advertising, telling one over and over, what a wonderful job he was doing,

    If that did not work, he threw in a few, do not be afraid, be aware, in case we did not get his message. Yes, keeping the populace terrorised does not harm ones control,.

  120. Here is s a song for you Nob of Sydney… Seriously coming in here calling people dishonest.. A self promoting small minded neocon antagonist. You don’t debate, you preach, does that make you feel big little man?

    YOUR A LIAR FUCK OFF

  121. “Costello did sell govt assets but they were not put into the budget as revenue. They were used to pay off debt. ”

    This is the problem. Assets when deposed of, should be used to create new assets, not to pay off debts.

  122. YOUR A LIAR

    To a right-winger, that’s a high compliment.

    If you really want to insult them, tell them they’re a truth-teller.

  123. He did not spend on Health, Education and most other essentials.

    Who says?? You?? Labor has just cut $1b from dental health.

    Did pay off debt with those sales, though. No good economics they say.”

    That is what they say. Thank goodness Costello does not listen to what people say. That is Wayne Swans problem. He does not know what to do. I suspect he just follows advice he gets from Treasury and doesn’t not have any ideas of his own.

    Had a lot of help with a mining boom.”

    The mining boom did not start until 2004. They only got this help from 2004-2007, the last three years. Costello was running surplus budgets well before the mining boom started.

    You know CU, you are as dishonest as Gillard and your judgement is as bad as Gillards. I guess that is why you like her.

  124. Gee, Neil, It took you a long time to this point. That is OK. I will also remind you, I do not lie.

    Much of what I have pasted is said by others. Including Mr. Turnbull.

    Also Neil, I will not tell you to ,,,off. I so not believe in calling others names. No need for that.

    Neil, I stand behind all that I have said. If it does not fit in with your world view, that is your problem, not mine.

    It does not change the truth of what I have said.

    Many, many others see, to share my opinion., Neil, at the end of the day, ut is between yours and my opinions.

    Do you not remember the massive cuts to services that were carried out by Mr. Howard when he first came to power.

    His user pays philosophy,

    His mutual obligation. HIs privatization of government departments, His tearing apart of Tafe and Training, which by the way, the states are quickly finishing off what he began.

    His encouragement of moving away from public to private education. The list is endless.

    I have not yet moved onto IR.

    I think they call it small government.

    Later, to gain votes, he returned a small proportion of the money removed.

    Neil, all that Howard and Costello did, was deliberate, as they feel it is not the business of government to provide these services.

    To say he did not go down this path, shows that you have no idea of what they were about.

    Maybe that is why you are having trouble understanding what we are saying.

    Maybe that is why you can only feel comfortable, by believing us to be liars..

    No, I do not hate Mr. Howard. Yes, I hate his policies and beliefs. Mr. Howard was doing what he believed in. Does not make him right.

    I do not believe in a world that it is everyone for themselves.

    I see the role of government being different.

    I see government, as the means that enables a civil society.

  125. Neil, I do not consider Mr. Abbott to be in the same mould of Howard.

    I do not believe this man has any saving graces.

    He had one ambition, since he was a small child, to be the Pope or PM.

    Trouble is, he is so obsessed with his desire, that he has never taken the time, to think about what he will do, if we were unlucky enough for him to achieve his desires.

    He now shared this passion with Mr. Howard, who also de3cided at a young age he would be PM.

    The difference is that Mr, Howard develop some policies along the way. Not ones I agree with by the way, but he did have some.

    If one followed him, one knew what they were. Will admit, he did attempt to keep many hidden, such as his plans for IR, but if one had looked hard enough they should have known.

    What does Mr. Abbott stands for.

  126. I will also remind you, I do not lie.”

    Maybe so but you do tell falsehoods. You said this at December 10, 2012 @ 12:32 pm

    Comment from another site, sums up how Mr. Costello did it. Yep selling off ones assets to pay bills is the way to go. The trouble is that there are few left to sell.”

    This statement is incorrect. Costello did NOT sell assets to pay the bills. That is what Paul Keating did when he sold Qantas and the Commonwealth Bank. This money was used for recurrent spending, something I believe no Australian govt had done until Keating came along.

    Mr Costello sold assets to pay off debts not to pay bills. When the debt was paid off money from asset sales was put into the Future Fund and various infrastructure funds like HEEF (Higher Education Endowment Fund).

    I think ALP supporters invent false stories to convince yourselves that your reason for voting labor is correct.

  127. Neil what is the difference in paying a bill and paying off debts, You have lost me.

    No, I do not tell lies.

  128. Yes, I believe my reasons for voting labor is correct.

    If I believed in small government, and other beliefs of the Coalition, I might vote for them.
    That does not make me a liar. It only means I have different beliefs from you.

    I would be in a bind, if I shared the beliefs of the right.

    As I believe that Mr.,Abbott stands for nothing.

    He had opposing positions on every policy that come to mind

    I could not vote for him. As I have no idea what he stands for.

    Neil, just because one disagrees, does not mean that one has lied, as you seem to believe.

    If one does not agree with you, one is lying, A short sighted view, I would say.

  129. “Neil what is the difference in paying a bill and paying off debts, You have lost me.

    Well if you have a home mortgage you would understand. Mr Costello when he got extra money from asset sales used the money to pay off the mortgage (debt) not to pay electricity or water bills. It is not a perfect example but it should work.

    Mr Keating when he sold Qantas used this money to pay salaries and govt bills. The money obtained from selling Qantas is now gone forever.

  130. So one sells off the house, to pay the mortgage. If one sells a asset to pay off another. One is left with less. You have one less asset.

    If you invested in in new infrastructure, that is different. That did not occur

    As for Telstra, that was a disaster. It should have been sold as one., It should have been split.

    Now if Mr. Howard had done that, he might have not had 17 failures in getting his broadband up and going.

    It was Mr. Conroy, that found he had to abandon his first scheme for the same reason. At least, we have a better scheme being put in place, but he had to buy the Telstra copper wire infrastructure back to proceed.

    Selling off assets that make money, I believe could be seen as a dubious practice.

  131. “Neil, the money was not reinvested in any new infrastructure,

    Yep, that is a choice Costello made. I guess he reasoned that you can only sell Telstra once and the money should be used to pay off debt.

    This is why it is stupid to say that Labor would have had the same results as the Coalition if they had been in power from 1996-2007.

    This is rubbish. Conservatives like to pay off debt if possible. Socialists like to spend money. They are different people.

  132. “This is why it is stupid to say that Labor would have had the same results as the Coalition if they had been in power from 1996-2007.”

    Neil who ever said that. I have not seen that written. It would have been a silly thing to say.

    Labor would have done it differently, that is for sure, This is because Labor has different beliefs and policies. I suspect the result might have been better, but one will never know.

    Now, What would have happened, if Howard got back in 2007 is a different matter.

    We know what the Coalition said they would do. Not spend as much as Labor.

    Spend yes, but not as much.

    It is my belief, if this occurred, we would be in the same mess as the rest of the western world.

    We also know the results of what the stimulus spending has been.

    Neil, I suspect sometimes you are arguing with yourself, and becoming confused,

    Neil, move away from arguing who did what and look at the results. Look at the economy we now have.

    It is not that bad. In fact it is amazing when one looks at the rest of t6he western world economies. We are among the best, by far.

  133. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 10, 2012 @ 9:24 PM
    Yep, that is a choice Costello made. I guess he reasoned that you can only sell Telstra once and the money should be used to pay off debt.

    Really? Neil seeing you know so much about this, was selling Telstra a good Idea?. Do you stand by Costello’s ideology of , we are selling it to let Australians invest in it.despite the fact that we already owned it. Or….The government should never own a telephone company, we will leave it to market forces. So how are market forses working out?. Abbott was charged with privatising medicare as health minister and he realised a few months in that it was not going to fly.

    Selling Telstra was possibly the most idiotic economic decision this century for absolutely no net gain whatsoever.

  134. “Labor would have done it differently, that is for sure,

    Yep, if Labor was in power from 1996-2007 Federal govt debt would have quadrupled. We would have been in trouble like some countries in Europe. Look at Queensland under Beattie/Bligh. Lost its credit rating during the biggest mining boom in history due to increasing debt and the boom took place in Queensland.

    “We also know the results of what the stimulus spending has been.

    Yes, a total waste of money. It is my belief that without stimulus spending the economy would still be O.K. We would however not have so much debt.

    ” Look at the economy we now have.

    Yes and it was better in 2007. Did not help Howard win the election. Must be the first time in Western History where the Government in charge of a booming economy lost an election.

  135. Neil, you are now in the realms of fantasy land. There is no way you can say with certainty, what would have occurred if Labor was in power.

    Your biases are showing badly.

    The economy was turning around when Mr. Keating was defeated. Why would not that have continued under him.

    After all, Mr. Keating managed to turnaround a worse economy that was left to him, by Mr. Howard when he was treasurer,

    It is not wise to cherry pick history.

  136. Well Neil, that says something for the popularity of what Howard was doing. His policies obviously did not please many.

    Suggest, that there might have been too many cuts. Too much to the higher income earners. Too many scare campaigns.

    Too many interest rate rises, that went along with those surpluses. Too much private debt.

    Whatever the cause, Mr. Howard and Mr. Costello were on the nose.

    Neil, that you cannot deny.

  137. Neil, you are now in the realms of fantasy land. There is no way you can say with certainty, what would have occurred if Labor was in power.

    I think you can say with certainty some things that will happen under Labor. Debt always goes up under Labor.

    In 1983 when Malcolm Fraser lost the election Federal govt debt was at 4% of GDP. Thirteen years later in 1996 it was at 18% of GDP. It quadrupled under Hawke/Keating. Same in Queensland. There was NO State debt when Joh lost office in 1988. Look at what happened under Beattie/Bligh. Socialists like to run up debt. It is in their DNA. Look at what happened in Victoria under Cain/Kirner.

    Suggest, that there might have been too many cuts. Too much to the higher income earners. Too many scare campaigns.”

    There was actually too much BS and lies from Labor supporters. Labor supporters are more loyal to their Party than they are to the country.

  138. I am noting serial LIAR and DISHONESTY pedlar “Squeal of Sydney’s” deafening silence on Costello’s sale of Telstra…I will take that as an inequitable and indefensible..NO. Oh I’m still waiting for the 5 reasons of character that Abbot should be PM too…I think I just heard a pin drop as the roaches scurry from their own shit again..

  139. Ricky, from the newmatilda story

    They said yes but when they got it they said no,

    Why?

    I think that in itself would make an interesting story

  140. “I am noting serial LIAR and DISHONESTY pedlar “Squeal of Sydney’s”

    Why should I respond to somebody who is nothing but a rude human being???

  141. Why should I respond to somebody who is nothing but a rude human being

    You might be asked the same question. You repeatedly come in here and say that people lie simply because they are ‘Lefties’. Then complain when you are abused. Not that I support the abuse. But I fully understand where it is coming from.

  142. You repeatedly come in here and say that people lie simply because they are ‘Lefties’. Then complain when you are abused.

    Right Wing Projection – One of their most commonly-deployed tactics.

  143. One of their most commonly-deployed tactics.

    Along with mud splattering, it doesn’t leave much room for debate around that does it.

  144. “But I fully understand where it is coming from.

    I don’t. The poster has been abusive to me from the beginning. The mere fact that I vote Liberal is enough to send the guy into a frenzy.

  145. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 11, 2012 @ 3:08 PM
    Why should I respond to somebody who is nothing but a rude human being???

    Like all fiberals you are a one way conversation soapbox of rhetorical lies.
    Who when faced with a question or answer they don’t like in a blog of like minded souls, you pull the victim card.

    Why?
    Because you have no answer to serious questions I ask,

    Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 11, 2012 @ 4:12 PM
    The mere fact that I vote Liberal is enough to send the guy into a frenzy.

    I have reasoned dialogue with conservatives all the time. Two of my close friends are small L liberals, however they are highly educated people of sound critical thinking. Progressive pragmatists who are more interested in the advancement of society than parroted rhetorical politics. We agree on most things as we debate in duplex dialogue. One thing we all agree on as futurists, is reformist governments are weighed down by neo-conservatism, the enemy of progress.

    I treat you with disdain because you only answer what is convenient to your serial antagonism.,Based on your consistent return to Whispers to “set us delusional , dishonest, lying lefty’s” strait, you are nothing but an interloping, self promotional troll who derives some type of sick pleasure from oppositional ranting..

    Do you think for one microsecond you achieve anything by posting rubbish in here? Like all political pygmies, your are a “Bullshitting Bully Boy” with nothing so why are you here?

    Did you consider Costello selling telstra a good economic and infrastructural decision?

    Did Keating’s reforms of monetary policy, industrial relations and the banking sector give Costello a free ride (what is Costello’s reform legacy?)

    Name 6 Character attributes that makes Abbott suitable for the Prime Ministers job.

    I suspect that your answer.will be silence again with a victim disclaimer, which will re-enforce my appraisal of your dishonest character. A reasonable answer is worthy of a reasonable apology. To paraphrase the most socially divisive PM in modern political history, That is a “CORE” promise.

    Note: “reasonable”. here is a link to the meaning so you are clear
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reasonable

  146. Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, says she had ‘no inkling’ of the effect her so-called misogyny speech aimed at Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, would have.

    She made the comments after being voted the most influential female voice in Australia by Fairfax Media’s Daily Life website.

    The site lauded her speech in October, saying it was a ‘watershed moment’ for Australian women.

    ‘Our first female Prime Minister had kept silent on sexism directed at her and entrenched in Australian politics since her election, but when she spoke it wasn’t just Australia, but the world, that stopped and listened,’ a statement on their website said.

    But Ms Gillard, in an accompanying interview with Fairfax, had no idea how much attention the world would pay to the speech until Treasurer, Wayne Swan, told her.

    ‘I thought I had given a hard-hitting speech but I didn’t have any inkling of the effect of it,’ she said.

    ‘I said to Wayne, Oh, we’re going to have to sit here now and listen to all these bloody speeches in reply. I should get my chief of staff to bring some correspondence so at least I can be getting on with something.’

    ‘And Wayne, with a slightly odd look on his face … said, You can’t really give the I accuse’ speech and settle back and do your correspondence’.’

    She said women had shown their support of the speech by sending her notes and presents.

    Media commentator, Anne Summers, was voted the second most influential woman in Australia, followed by social commentator, writer and lecturer, Jane Caro, Sex Discrimination Commissioner, Elizabeth Broderick and Walkley award winning journalist and 7.30 Report anchor, Leigh Sales

    http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=825352

  147. Name 6 Character attributes that makes Abbott suitable for the Prime Ministers job.

    They can’t and they won’t. In the other thread (‘The Right to be heard’) they couldn’t even name ONE characteristic that qualifies Abbott for the job. Squeal of Sydney tossed off a desultory line about his supposed “judgement” but you could tell his heart wasn’t in it.

    They’re not critical thinkers, they’re duped and deluded by the avalanche of Coalition Spin and distortion.s They’d vote for a shaved monkey if it wore the Liberal badge… come to think of it, that’s how one could describe Abbott!

  148. As the saying goes..Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire.. Tony Abbott will say what ever is expedient with the truth running a poor last.

    Health Minister Tanya Plibersek on Tuesday night called on Mr Abbott to clarify his position on RU486 and abortion. She said as health minister he had voted in parliament to maintain his veto over the use of RU486, but he now said he didn’t oppose the drug.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/abortion-question-back-to-haunt-abbott-20121211-2b7t8.html#ixzz2Emb3Gj3I

  149. Talk of lies. I am sure they are found to be in great numbers in the Slipper/Ashby saga,. Wonder how many the Judge in his court, will put to rest today.

  150. The judge has laid the lies to rest. Claims vexations. More lies hit the dust. Should be an interesting day. The judge declared it a political attack on Slipper and an abuse of the legal system.

    Maybe the PM was a little more prudent than those on the Opposition benches.

  151. The Opposiston might be lucky, that the judge did not allow it to proceed. Will Slipper now be able to sue for costs.

  152. Now on the SMH..

    The sexual harassment case against former federal parliamentary speaker Peter Slipper has been dismissed by a Federal Court judge.

    In his judgment handed down on Wednesday, Justice Steven Rares said the sexual harassment case taken by Mr Slipper’s former staffer James Ashby was taken “for the predominant purpose of causing political damage to Mr Slipper”.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/slipper-case-thrown-out-20121212-2b8o9.html#ixzz2Emssw2QL

  153. Addendum: we here at the Cafe stood by the principle of innocent until proven guilty often coping a lot of sh*t from elsewhere for taking this stance. For once in a blue moon I am feeling smug. 😉

  154. Design to harm. Designed by whom.

    They are now after Brandis.

    Slipper did turn up to court.
    This or the Thomson matter was never meant to ened up being decided in court. The PM was supposed to fall. Now, all have egg on their face.

    Ashby appears not to have much to say.

    Roxon, said that it once again shows up Mr. Brandis Judgement, on legal matters.

    Slipper case thrown out of court
    Updated: 10:02, Wednesday December 12, 2012

    The sexual harassment case against former federal parliamentary speaker Peter Slipper has been dismissed by a Federal Court judge.

    In his judgment handed down on Wednesday, Justice Steven Rares said the sexual harassment case taken by Mr Slipper’s former staffer James Ashby was taken ‘for the predominant purpose of causing political damage to Mr Slipper’.

    Justice Rares found Mr Ashby acted in combination with fellow staffer Karen Doane and former federal minister Mal Brough to ‘advance the interests of the LNP and Mr Brough’.

    ‘I have reached the firm conclusion that Mr Ashby’s predominant purpose for bringing these proceedings was to pursue a political attack against Mr Slipper and not to vindicate any legal claim he may have,’ Justice Rares said.

    ‘Mr Ashby began planning the attack at least by the beginning of February 2012,’ he added.

    He said he was satisfied the proceedings were an abuse of the process of court.

    ‘To allow these proceedings to remain in the court would bring the administration of justice into disrepute among right-thinking people and would be manifestly unfair to Mr Slipper,’ Justice Rares said.

    More to come.

    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=825610&vId=

  155. Min

    Does Tony Abbott have questions to answer on political attack of Peter Slipper?

    Remember Abbott said Gillard was attempting to protect Slipper.

    What will now be revealed about Pyne’s involvement? Mal Brough? Joe Hockey and the Easter meeting at Sunshine Coast?

  156. Imagine the list that could be added to defamation.

    Lucky for australia Brandis is not the AG.

    Will Ashby disclose who his backers are/were before today?

    Slipper will have a case against Steve lewis and the tele, then there was the rat picture across the front pages
    etc, ect ,etc

  157. Slipper will have a case against Steve lewis and the tele

    That is one I would LOVE to see come to fruition.Sue 🙂

  158. Sue, it will also be interesting to see how much of the information presented to the court that the judge will permit to be released to the public..a distinct impression that the judge was none too impressed by the whole event, therefore likely that he won’t be reluctant to provide material which will go to support his reasons.

  159. Mr Ashby has been ordered to pay Mr Slipper’s legal cost.

    from news.com

    I wonder who will be picking up that tab, and, will we ever know?

  160. I would like to address this one..

    Firstly via Lenore Taylor:

    The decision also raises questions for the government about why it settled its case and paid Mr Ashby $50,000 over allegations that have now been thrown out –

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/peter-slipper-and-the-high-price-of-rushed-judgment-20121212-2b8rh.html#ixzz2En8IoIJy

    But expanded by news.com:

    Mr Ashby, who arrived at court today flanked by his spokesman Anthony McClellan, settled his case against the Commonwealth in September for $50,000 and a promise to introduce an education program for staff about sexual harassment in the workplace.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/james-ashbys-sexual-harassment-case-against-former-speaker-peter-slipper-thrown-out-of-court/story-fndo4bst-1226535085206

    Lenore is wrong on this one. The $50,000 paid as compensation was due to a proven fact and one which the Commonwealth admitted, that it did not have an adequate education program. Therefore the Commonwealth was admitting that sexual harassment *could have* occurred.

  161. Ashby disappointed. Will appeal. Suspect this will not happen, Too many of the designers will have to take the stand.

    The judge based his judgement on the evidence lodged.

  162. re Min @ 11:11 am

    You’d really expect more from Lenore Taylor you’d think. She seems to be getting lazy lately, unlike her.

  163. Sue, thank you for that. I note that the word vexatious is looming large in Justice Rares’ ruling which translated means p* off you have been wasting the court’s time..a very substantial no, no.. I can’t see Ashby’s lawyer being promoted to the bench any time soon.

  164. Tom, Lenore is semi-forgiven..it’s a common misconception that compensation equates with guilty/innocent, it can but it isn’t necessarily so.

  165. I have reached the firm conclusion that Mr Ashby’s predominant purpose for bringing these proceedings was to pursue a political attack against Mr Slipper and not to vindicate any legal claim he may have,’ Justice Rares said.

    ‘Mr Ashby began planning the attack at least by the beginning of February 2012,’ he added.

    He said he was satisfied the proceedings were an abuse of the process of court.

    ‘To allow these proceedings to remain in the court would bring the administration of justice into disrepute among right-thinking people and would be manifestly unfair to Mr Slipper,’ Justice Rares said.
    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=825610&vId=

  166. Tom R, the government took the action they did, to allow matters to proceed quicker. The AG at the time, said it did not mean, they believed Ashby had a case. It was just a cost matter, and speeding up the matter. The quicker it was settled, the better for Labor.

  167. :What will now be revealed about Pyne’s involvement? Mal Brough? Joe Hockey and the Easter meeting at Sunshine Coast?”

    Maybe not now, but sure to be, if they appeal and are succesful.

  168. The judgement is fascinating

    section 85 goes to Ashby’s sick certificate dated 5 April 2012. By the reading is the judge suggesting fraudulent document? (Harmers/Ashby/Media managers/Lewis)

    Will the commonwealth have a case?

    Back to the reading

  169. From news.com..what was that again? The inquiry would be “a high profile act of revenge”..of course completely different to the Opposition’s acts of revenge…

    THE Government is considering a public inquiry into the Liberal Party’s role in bringing down former Speaker Peter Slipper through legal action which was thrown out of court.

    The inquiry would be a high profile act of revenge for the Opposition’s strategy of attempting to bring down the Government by highlighting allegations of corruption against Mr Slipper and former Labor MP Craig Thomson.

    And it could expose the role of senior Liberals in the accusations of sexual harassment against Mr Slipper which cost him his job as Speaker, even though a court has refused to hear them.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/government-mulls-liberal-party-probe-on-peter-slipper-affair/story-fndo4eg9-1226535285267

  170. this just before the summation

    “In any event, the $50,000 paid by the Commonwealth ensured that Mr Ashby recovered more than he would have been awarded in damages and pecuniary penalties against both the Commonwealth and Mr Slipper if he had established his claims relating to the relatively trivial incidents of sexual harassment he pleaded”

  171. Min,

    Here’s what a commenter said at a Crikey blog…

    I would think the H-O-R ought to refer this to its Privileges Committee. On the face of it, there has been a conspiracy to topple a Speaker, the most senior official of the House. This is not merely a “political” assault, it is an attack on the Parliament itself and is probably the most serious Constitutional issue to arise since 1975. It should be investigated as a matter of urgency.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2012/12/10/newspoll-54-46-to-coalition-11/?comment_page=27/#comment-1499484

  172. Miglo,

    Someone on Twttier has pointed out that the “media” (god, I hate that word) is running with a negative education story. Pyne is even speaking on his portfolio. Good distraction!

  173. Brandis has issued a PS. Attacking Roxon for commenting on the matter while it is waiting appeal.

    That among other abuse of the government and AG.

    Where is the stunt man, nowhere to be seen., This is a little hard to get out of.

    Labor speaker said that this judgement is very unusual. What is more unusual, the lengths the judgment goes to.

    I believe it might be one of those landmark cases. One that will be spoken about for years to come.

    Lets hope it leads to the Opposition creasing to use the judicial system as a tool for their political campaigns.

    It is more than about Ashby appealing. Bought has been charged with corruption by the judge,

    Slipper. Media release. Pleased with the decision.

    Yes, the fun has just begun.

    I do not believe Mr. Abbott will be making too many calls for more inquiries into anyone, from this time on..

    This is not just a matter of Ashby losing. It is about political corruption on a big scale.

    Yes, as the red haired lady from the past said, Mr. Abbott, please explain.

  174. Conspiracy to bring down a Speaker, PM and government,. Very serious matters indeed,

    It is all there in that judgement. The judge has let it all out.

    What has occurred is rare in this county. Some might be a first.

    It was Roxon that first went down this path, along with Slipper. Withdrew, but still believed this outcome was possible. Maybe she believed probable.

    It was a legal maneuver to settle a minor matter, and withdraw. Clever legal machinations

    Clear the field for the judge to come to an earlier judgement.

  175. of course completely different to the Opposition’s acts of revenge…

    Exactly Min. everything the libs have done is an act of revenge simply for the other team winning

  176. The Slipper win is a great win for the government, and a major setback for all the unscrupulous machinations of the LNP.
    Brough is shown up to be the corrupt scumbag that he is.
    Pyne, Bishop, Brandis, Abbott and a number of the QLD LNP are in it up to their scrawny necks. 👿 👿 👿
    I hope the PM calls for an enquiry into the whole sordid affair, with terms of reference includingAbbott misleading of the AEC. 😆

    That’ll fix em 😀

    As I said previously, I would not want Brandis representing me in a schoolyard argument.

    Cheers 😀

  177. What Mr. Abbott was doing today. Wonder if his mind has moved on to other matters now, Wonder if he realizes the seriousness of what has occurred today.

    It will not be glossed over or go away, the good judge has ensured that in the words he has penned today.

  178. Hope someone reminded Mr. Pye, that the downward path of reading and other educational standards date from 1996.

    That this study was done in 2010, at the behest of the education minister of the time, out present PM.

    Cannot let a few inconvenient facts get in the way of a good story.

  179. I seem to recall the PM some months back saying “a very serious line has been crossed”. Pretty sure it was in relation to the Ashby Affair.

  180. Miglo
    DECEMBER 12, 2012 @ 1:43 PM
    Perhaps the media will respond with another Rudd challenge, or another boat heading our way..

    Well Labor has turned a corner on the “Smear Lies” of the AWU, turned a corner on and “Fear Lies” of the effects of carbon Pricing and turned a corner on the “Vexatious Lies” revealing a treasonous plot to bring down Slipper, Everybody knows when you turn three corners your “Right” back where we started and the Noalition still have no policies. 🙂 The Fiberals of Abbott have unquestionably proven by legacy to be the most incompetent, filthiest and hands down worst opposition in Australia’s political history .

  181. scaper, the mussels comment is little more than smutty language that one would expect to hear in the playground of a boys’ school, not from an adult.

    scaper, you have no idea what was said before or after that text. None at all.

    What the judge said, Mr. Slipper was being set up. Yes, he may be squeaky clean. Amazing is it not.

    Media working hard, trying toi turn it back on Ms. Roxon, with little luck, I believe.

    scaper, take the hour hour to read that judgement, before making comment. If you do not, you will be ion danger of making a fool of yourself. It is damning.

  182. We had Mr, Reith on last night, running down Me.Roxon in every way, including what she has said on this matter.

    The judge completely clears her of any wrong doing toady. It is Mr, Brandis and co that are found to be in the wrong.

    Wonder it there will be an apology from Mr. Reith, for his errors.

    No response in person from the opposite. Now3 why would we expect anything more.

    Now the Liberals believe in sub judiciary. Pity none apply at this time.

  183. Hey, I’m not defending either unlike your good self. Not in the habit of defending grubs, no matter which side but do question Gillard’s judgement in putting him in the Speaker’s chair in the first place, knowing he was a grub.

    Why did Roxon settle on behalf of the government? Looks like $50K wasted to me.

  184. @ Scaper

    Oh dear, get it right.

    The disgusting LNP grubs

    Fixed 😀

    The LNP conspirators have once again resorted to illegality in order to topple the elected Government, rather than attempt to win an election, as is the way in our democracy.
    At what stage is such activity to be regarded as treasonous ❓

  185. but do question Gillard’s judgement in putting him in the Speaker’s chair in the first place

    Yea, serves Gillard right for believing a guy who has been pre-selected so many times by the libs would be any good 😉

  186. The LNP is the Qld Liberal National Party. I’ve relayed my opinion of them here and elsewhere before.

    Can someone explain how this could have toppled the federal government?

  187. Interesting comment by Roxon that anyone can make a complaint to the NSW legal board, about Harmers. It is not up to the Fed A-G to refer Harmers, after the judgement by Rares. It will be interesting to see if someone does .

  188. Ms. Roxon, has noted the lack of visibility from anyone on the Opposition.

    Every time they make dicks of themselves – which is regularly – they make themselves scarce from the media and scrutiny. (Whatever small amount of scrutiny the scumbag Liberal media put on them).

    All Spin, No Substance.

    In between times you can’t get the ugly bastards OFF the media. And their appearances are never to do with their policies… because they have none!

    All Spin, No Substance.

  189. Now is the time that Tony Abbott’s speech calling on Slipper being removed as Speaker be put on you-tube. That was the speech that was followed by Julia Gillard’s famous mysogyny speech.

    “In his speech to the parliament arguing that Mr Slipper should be removed from the speakership – to which Ms Gillard replied with her now famous speech about misogyny – Coalition leader Tony Abbott said he was not arguing Mr Slipper should be disqualified ”by the mere fact of a legal action against him” – but because of the text messages that had emerged during the legal action. But the court has now found the case should not have been taken in the first place.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/peter-slipper-and-the-high-price-of-rushed-judgment-20121212-2b8rh.html#ixzz2EoLY9hG4

  190. Well. I was saying this morning that the court might just lay a few lies to rest. Appears I was correct for once. Could never see where the case was. What I did not expect was the spectacular way it has occurred.

    One soon learns when they take matters to court, you listen carefully to the aside comments of the magistrate or judge, and adjust your case. Judge Rare was giving warnings from day one. This is a minimal matter, come to an agreement. Do not proceed.

    Ashby mob and the Opposition did not heed the warning.

    ………THE Government is considering a public inquiry into the Liberal Party’s role in bringing down former Speaker Peter Slipper through legal action which was thrown out of court.

    The inquiry would be a high profile act of revenge for the Opposition’s strategy of attempting to bring down the Government by highlighting allegations of corruption against Mr Slipper and former Labor MP Craig Thomson.

    And it could expose the role of senior Liberals in the accusations of sexual harassment against Mr Slipper which cost him his job as Speaker, even though a court has refused to hear them.

    Federal Court judge Steven Rares said in his ruling today that to continue the case would be “manifestly unfair” to Mr Slipper.

    “The Coalition will have some serious questions to answer about their own conduct,” Attorney-General Nicola Roxon said this morning.

    The Government is expected to accuse the Coalition of assisting…………………

    http://www.news.com.au/national/government-mulls-liberal-party-probe-on-peter-slipper-affair/story-fndo4eg9-1226535285267

  191. scaper, the first time the allegations against Slipper have been tested, he has been cleared. The judge did mention, those old allegations from years ago, saying they are only that, unfounded allegations. Same for cheating on cab charges.

    The people who have accused him of being a grub have been found wanting. Would be careful. I do not believe that Mr. Slipper will let one allegation now go to the keeper. They will be challenged, as soon as uttered. I believe he might just now be off bounds,.

    scaper, it has been the people throwing the mud, that have been found to be in the wrong. Not to be trusted.

  192. Abbott has spent the day in the last shadow party or cabinet meeting for the year. I am sure there would have been big media conference planned after that,

  193. No scaper, I am defending the judicial system.

    The case against Mr. Slipper and the government, who remember were also sued, are seen to be corrupt. Yes, it was found to be unfair. There are still no charges laid or convictions, that say Mr. Slipper is a grub.

    It appears that once again, he could have been cleared by the system.

    The people who are saying this, have been well and truly pulled to account today, not Mr. Slipper.

  194. Surely now it’s time to take stock of how politics is being conducted.
    Peter Slipper’s reputation has been dragged through the mud, he lost his job as speaker, the Prime Minister Julia Gillard has been accused of ”running a protection racket” in his defence, and the federal parliament descended into a long debate about horrible references to female genitals in what were supposed to be his private texts.
    And now the federal court has found the whole thing was an abuse of process, that James Ashby’s sexual harassment case was brought ”for the predominant purpose of causing political damage to Mr Slipper”. It sure did that.
    That finding raises big questions for the man who has been pre-selected by the Coalition for Mr Slipper’s seat – Mal Brough, who was named in the judgment as acting with Mr Ashby to advance the interests of the Liberal National Party.
    Advertisement……………………………..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/peter-slipper-and-the-high-price-of-rushed-judgment-20121212-2b8rh.html#ixzz2EojHSgyx

  195. I also think Peter Slipper was an excellent speaker. His personal Text Messages aside ( by the way I wonder how all the other pollies mobiles texts would have been ?) he was excellent at the job. He knew the rules inside and out. He was fair to both sides. He did not tolerate the disgusting childish antics of our politcians during question time. While I find his texts distasteful, (maybe we should force all other politcians to submit their tax payer funded electronic devices for scrutiny of personal comments and opinions) he was an excellent speaker of the house.

  196. .

    …………………But Senator Brandis said the Opposition was studying the decision, and took his own swipe at Nicola Roxon.

    “The Attorney-General has once again behaved inappropriately, and once again shown a misunderstanding of her appropriate constitutional role, in commenting on the case when it remains before the court pending the appeal,” Senator Brandis said.

    “The Attorney-General has also yet to explain why the Commonwealth settled its side of the proceeding in breach of the Commonwealth’s own guidelines.”

    This was a reference to the $50,000 paid to Mr Ashby in September to end court action against the Commonwealth on the sexual harassment matter. The Government said the payment was made to prevent a prolonged case which would cost much more money….

    http://www.news.com.au/national/government-mulls-liberal-party-probe-on-peter-slipper-affair/story-fndo4eg9-1226535285267

    Yes, Mr. Brandis . You are always correct. There is no sub judiciary at this time. Also did not Mr. Brandis say that did not apply in civil cases, or is this now a criminal matter. If som no charges have been laid, well not yet.

  197. Scaper

    His personal texts are his personal property as are mine and yours. He was made a scapegoat once he left the LNP while being used to advantage and defended while being a member. To now be solely guilty of lewd text messages is a total joke. I used to respect and defend Mal Brough and thought him one of the best LNP MPs. However since he became involved in this thuggery and reputation destroying games to his own advantage in the seat of Fisher for pre selection I have changed my mind dramatically. I live in the electorate of Fisher and while Peter Slipper is gone for all money and simply sponged off the public for many years, I don’t want another stench elected here either. I will be voting independent. Just not for Peter Slipper if he runs as an independent.

  198. Shane, Slipper has a history that everyone knew in Parliament and the texts just confirm it. Don’t condone anyone who preys on barely legals, ‘little lone’ an old man and won’t defend anyone like that on ethical and moral grounds.

    You know that the Nationals wanted him gone but the grandfather clause when the LNP was formed tied their hands. I find it quite sickening that the Labor blog troopers here even try to defend him. Says a lot!

  199. More interesting an appeal is not automatic. Roxon has noted that Ashby will have to apply to to appeal.
    Hmmmmmmm

  200. Mr. Emerson now being interviewed by Lyndal Curtis. scaper, maybe you should listen. Might learn something

  201. Slipper has a history that everyone knew in Parliament

    Everyones got a history that everyone knows.

    The libs kept selecting him. All of a sudden, when he is picked as speaker, he is poison.

    If the worst they can find about him is he replied to a dirty text sent while under the impression that it was private, god help everyone else in Parliament, or any workplace for that matter.

    I wanna see Windsors blackberry 🙂

  202. Scaper

    Slipper was supported and defended by the LNP for years despite any allegations of any sort, including rorting the sysytem for financial gain. They only turned when he left them. Their morals are disgraceful and self serving. Nothing less. To then say it is now an ALP problem is the lowest of buck passing I have experienced.

    In regards to your comments in relation to “barely legals”. I refuse to comment on those type of rumours and allegations. If there is proof then put it up. Otherwise stop attempting to destroy a person through hearsay. Far too many peoples lives have been destroyed by false allegations of so called sexual predation or sexual allegations, only for those allegations or rumours to be found to have no substance. Mud sticks and I refuse to be a mud slinging hypocrite. I would not want it done to me.

  203. This makes for a very merry Christmas, or for those of us who don’t believe in Christmas, a very merry end of the world … for the Lieberals!

  204. ” CU, you are of the belief that Slipper is of fine character? Your bias is most evident”

    scaper, where did I say he was innocent, What I said there has been no proven proof that he is guilty of anything.

    Yes, there are any rumours, allegations and innuendo but no proof that has been tested in court, Justuce Rares actually pointed that out in his judgement.

    What we do know, which has been tested in court, that those making the allegations have been found wanting and not to be trusted.

    Yes, scaper, that is what justice is about.

    What has also occurred today, is that politicians better be careful about the separation of powers. The judiciary is not a tool to be used by politicians to fight their battles.

    I would include in that, the coalition’s action into bringing police into, to investigate their opponents at the drop of a hat.

    How many police actions across the country are Mr Brandis and Co have a had a hand in setting up,

  205. No, the LNP wanted to get rid of Slipper four years ago. Slipper knew he was toast, that’s why he accepted the Speakership.

    If you don’t want to believe or comment on common knowledge then it is not my problem.

  206. scaper, do not treat us as fools. They wanted to get rid of Slipper because no one would roll over for Mr. Bough, even with Mr. Howard’s backing.

    . Mr, Abbott was his best mate, even went to his wedding. Up until recently, was still singing his praises. That 2003 story could not be got off the ground.

    The allegations of ripping off the system have never been proved. Why not, should not be hard to do.

    The judgement today was about corruption, setting up a false case for political reasons.

  207. If they wanted to get rid of him 4 years ago then why was he re endorsed as the LNP candidate and elected as a LNP member in the 2010 election ?. Thats just garbage to try and defend the indefensible for so many years.

  208. Who is this “us”?

    Based on your Abbott is best mates because Abbott attended his wedding then you are slurring others who attended.

    Did you know that Rudd also attended that wedding? By your poultry (chicken shit) reasoning then Rudd must also be Slipper’s best mate.

    If there was corruption then I expect the perpetrators to be before the courts and I would not defend them.

    In the grand scheme of things…won’t change the minds of the voters no matter how much the left scream.

  209. Of course if wont change the minds of the voters. Fisher is a rusted on Coalition safe seat. That is why they wanted it for Mal Brough. The underhanded and despicable way they have gone about it will, however, forever taint Mr Brough.

  210. On The Drom, John Hewson and Jane Caro both saying neither side of politics comes out of this looking good. Fuck them both, and all at the ABC who shove this rubbish down our throats. This is bad for the Libs. Full stop.

  211. Bacchus, can’t dispute the crux of your link. It is a grubby world of politics and the spivs that call themselves ‘staffers’.

    Shane, can’t disagree on your take of Brough, would not shed a tear if he was dis-endorsed. So many grubs on all sides. When trying to put a name to the state of politics, Caligula always comes to mind.

  212. The underhanded and despicable way they have gone about it will, however, forever taint Mr Brough.”

    So this whole thing was organised and plotted by the Liberal Party so Brough could get Slippers seat??

    Actually Slipper being made speaker by Gillard questions her wisdom. At the time there were all sorts of allegations around Slipper. It was well know that the Libs were trying to get rid of him because of expense account alleged rorting.

    I do agree that Slipper did appear to be a good speaker but there were too many allegations against him to put him in that position.

    I don’t think Brough needed to do anything to get Slippers seat. He was gone anyway.

  213. scaper, so Rudd attended the wedding Do you know they are still friends, It is you that is condemning Slipper, not us.

    Watching Drum. Education has been going backwards since the year 2000, Since we started directly money from the low resourced public system, to the better off private system.

    Who began that process.

  214. The libs kept selecting him. All of a sudden, when he is picked as speaker, he is poison.

    Someone correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the Lieberals select him nine times? That’s a long time.

    If they had doubts about him they had years and years to act on them. Why didn’t they?

    I agree with the opinion that, as a Speaker, he was excellent. Efficient, took no nonsense, ran a tight ship. Kept the Lieberal rabble relatively disciplined.

  215. Niel, I am glad you used the word allegations. As the PM said at the time, if we did not choose those who had allegations against them over a lifetime, the list would be very short,

  216. If they had doubts about him they had years and years to act on them. Why didn’t they?

    Peter Costello was asked that same question on the Bolt report. he replied that there were allegations against Slipper from time to tome but nobody could pin anything on him.

    Even recently, after Slipper stopped being Speaker, have you seen his reported travel expenses?? Why is he travelling?? They are unbelievable. If he is rorting the system now why is he not being charged?? Perhaps Slipper knows how to legally milk the system.

  217. Perhaps, Scaper, and I think you’d be right, given that the Nationals are the dominant conservative party in Queensland. However, that’s a technicality now, isn’t it, now that the Lieberals and Nationals are merged.

  218. Have not been able to pin anything on him. I would say, that has not been for lack of trying. There is another explanation, there is nothing to pin.

    Listening to the Lord Leveson Speech ABC 24. Very interesting . Jericho got a valued mention. Also the roles of blog. Appear we are OK. Keeping the mainstream media honest.

  219. chris murphy@chrismurphys
    Justice Rares ruled Ashby case was launched for political purposes. Judicial Inquiry must be held to determine the culprits #auspol

  220. Image will appear as a link
    3h Geoff Pearson ‏@GCobber99
    @Angry_Oak @chrismurphys have you read the whole verdict no room for appeal
    Details Reply Retweet Favorite
    2h chris murphy ‏@chrismurphys
    @GCobber99 @Angry_Oak nil hope. brilliant lawyer the judge.
    Details

  221. Would like to point out, Mr. Emerson said, when interviewed by Lydal Curtie, that no one seems to appreciate the seriousness of what has occurred today.

    I think the Opposition does. Look at the way they have gone to ground. It must have been a tight fit at the mouth of those burrows.

  222. Neil

    If Slipper was considered already gone, why did Brough become involved in allegations and despicable behaviour to discredit Slipper.? It smacks of political advantage of the grubbiest kind. Discredit a person through inuendo and allegations and personal ( yes personal ) texts between two adults. Brough is tainted, my opinion of him has totally changed. To deny he was involved, when a judge has found him to be up to his neck in dubious behaviour is to refuse to believe an independent leagal system.

  223. The Division of Fisher has been represented as follows:

    Peter Slipper – National => 1984–1987
    Michael Lavarch – Labor => 1987–1993
    Peter Slipper – Liberal => 1993–2010
    Peter Slipper – Liberal National => 2010–2011
    Peter Slipper – Independent => 2011–present

    And on the history of planned disendorsement:
    On 14 August 2010, just as the travel abuse allegations were gaining momentum, it was revealed in the Sunshine Coast Daily that a move had been made to attempt to disendorse Slipper in favour of former MP Mal Brough for his seat of Fisher at the next election. However this move was rejected due to an agreement between the Liberal and National parties about guaranteed endorsement for existing candidates.

    Note, this was BEFORE Mr Slipper was offered the speakership. They were aiming to disendorse him for the next election, due in 2013. The Liberals gave Mr Slipper no option other than to jump ship when the offer was made.

  224. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 12, 2012 @ 6:33 PM
    “If they had doubts about him they had years and years to act on them. Why didn’t they?”

    Peter Costello was asked that same question on the Bolt report. he replied that there were allegations against Slipper from time to tome but nobody could pin anything on him.

    Costello on the Bolt report…
    Why was he at Slippers wedding too?

    Oh you watch Bolt…A Bolt Fan boy? That explains a lot, extraordinarily dishonest people cant get enough of King Liar (the broke assed Bill O’reilly) as they need to feed that lying monkey on their back. Now I see why your cut and paste research is so pathetic.

  225. Hi Migs

    I actually do have some time for Neil now and then :), I just dislike his usual leftoid tar brushing as though I was a rusted on lefty, like he is a rusted on righty.

    As long as the links are not to Bolt or Akerman 🙂

  226. PM giving speech. China/ Australian dinner. Abbott not prescient. Robb is standing in for him

    After the big Bishop visit, would think he would be here.

  227. Note, this was BEFORE Mr Slipper was offered the speakership. They were aiming to disendorse him for the next election, due in 2013.”

    Mainly because of lots of allegations about travel expenses. But Gillard still got him the Speakers job knowing lots of innuendo was surrounding Slipper. Says it all about Gillards judgement.

    To deny he was involved, when a judge has found him to be up to his neck in dubious behaviour is to refuse to believe an independent leagal system.”

    Brough now has no option but to sue the judge if he wants to keep his reputation.

  228. What reputation does Brough have. The reputation of shonky land deals in the Tiwi Islands or screwing the Aboriginals over in the NTER where he blatantly lied in demonising them. that reputation?

    Brough wasn’t voted out because he a great politician doing his best for this country, he was voted out because he was crook. Now they want to parachute this crook into a safe seat so he can’t get voted out in the short to medium term.

    The Liberals are the most corrupt and devious Party this country has ever known and they have gone to a new level of low under Abbott taking the cue from his mentor Howard.

  229. Neil, how does one sue a judge, when he makes a ruling.

    This is a highly respected judge. Would be careful before I made defamatory comments.

    Would advise one to read the judgement. Is long but written in clear simple English.

    Most would have no problem understanding what is written. It is scathing and to the point. The judge holds nothing back.

    Then come back and comment. Otherwise you are likely to make a fool of yourself.

  230. Brough wasn’t voted out because he a great politician doing his best for this country, he was voted out because he was crook.”

    Really?? What crimes has he committed?? Has he had $5,000 deposited into his bank account like the PM. Wish someone would do that to me.

    Slipper is still in the news with large travel expenses

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/15517539/slippers-100-000-travel-bill/

    “Slipper’s $100,000 travel bill

    If what Slipper spends on travel is not illegal it should be.

  231. Why?? A previous PM most probably has a secretary. Salary plus on-costs would most probably cost $100,000/year. If Howard was spending that in 10 years time you would have to complain about. Keating finished being PM 16 years ago so most probably does not need a secretary.

    But $100,000 on travel for a back bencher. It shows that Gillard has poor judgement when she appointed him as speaker. Everybody still wanted the other guy but Gillard wanted Slipper so she could increase her numbers in the lower house. If anything sounds grubby that does. It does seem strange that somebody with so much innuendo surrounding him could be picked by Gillard.

    Slipper was trouble with a capital T but Gillard still picked him. By the way if Slipper is innocent why does Gillard not give him the speakers job back??

  232. Neil

    You need to read the whole judgement. I decided to and it really opened my eyes. It showed the manipulative emails sent by Ashby regarding this issue to other LNP members and MPs. These texts are worded so that it can be noting less than a conspiracy to bring down an MP. These texts seem to have been conveniently omitted by the MSM especailly the Murdoch crew over the last 8 months. Read the whole ruling and then get back to me.

    Funny how you keep saying Slipper was trouble with a capital T and blame Gillard but seem to have the biggest set of blinkers for your LNP as they endorsed him election after election and year after year, despite any rumours or chinese whispers they had received for years and years. It is also funny that those same chinese whispers and attempted proof and destruction of Slipper commenced once he left the LNP and became an independent. Grubby, Sleazy, Underhanded, Despicable, Pre Meditated attempts to destroy someone who for many years they stated they had no proof conveniently while he was in the LNP.

    To me this also shows the true reflection of the senior members and leaders of the opposition and their desperation to destroy all and sundry to achieve their aim of the Prime Ministership.

    I worked for a bank Neil, you just try and get statements of transaction of an account past 7 years. They do noy keep them. 7 years is the maximum. So where is the proof she accepted the money. I cannot remember what was banked to my account last year let alone 7 years ago. So unless the records can be fouind there is no proof but rather rumour and he said she said dubious recollections by less than desireable witnesses.

    In regards to Julia making poor judgements, I agree she has at times, but so have most politicians. Even Tony Abbott asks us to forgive him for the past and only see the future.

    The difference here, is that this is not poor judgement, this is pre meditated attempted destruction of a sitting MP by a political party, using the sitting MPs previous employee as the lead, to ensure the rest, can shirk their involvement. However the texts from Mr Ashby confirm otherwise. A real cesspit of political manipulation. The judge has seen through the smoke and mirrors of the LNP party machine and found the real reason and true involvement of other LNP MPs and party members.

    How does Mal Brough sue a judge, when a judge is making a ruling in regards to law, not expressing a personal opinion ? Thats why we have courts, for fulings free of personal opinions such as yours and mine which may be tainted by political or personal leanings.

  233. Neil

    You comment on Julia being unable to confirm something that happend so many years ago. How about you check the link Ricky supplied at 11.52pm and see how Mr Pyne cannot even remember what he did or did not do this year. In addition just see how many times he changes his tune as he is found to be telling porkies or just has a terrible memory, far far far worse than our PMs.

  234. Will someone tell Mr. Hockey that the judgement yesterday is nothing to do with Mr. Slipper being a honourable man.

    It is nothing to do withy Labor putting him up as a speaker.

    It has nothing to do with the government making a settlement of $50.000 .

    It is an unprecedented action by the court, that curtail the trial,l, because the judge came to the conclusion his court was being used for political purposes.

    He accused ex Liberal pollie of colluding with a public servant to to topple the speaker of the house.

    He accused them of gross misconduct.

    He accused them of lying.

    Whether Mr. Slipper in honourable or not, has anyt5hing to do with the judgement.

    It was noted, that any compensation would not have been anywhere near $50.000.

    It is about the actions of Mr. Bought and Mr. Ashby. We also suspect that many other MP’s will be found to be involved.

    This matter cannot be let die on the vine. It is too serious.

    We would, if media followed its normal course, would have seen numerous legal people interviewed to explain the ruling. Have we had one???

  235. Please it is no longer about Mr. Slipper. It is about Mr. Ashby and Mr. Bough. They were the ones named yesterday in that judgment.

    My emphasis.

    ………….The judge said that ’Mr Ashby’s predominant purpose for bringing these proceedings was to pursue a political attack against Mr Slipper and not to vindicate any legal claim he may have for which the right to bring proceedings exists.’

    Justice Rares described the proceedings as ‘an abuse of process’. He said too that ‘[t]he originating application was used by Mr Ashby for the predominant purpose of causing significant, public, reputational and political damage to Mr Slipper.’

    Ashby was not alone. According to Justice Rares he acted with Karen Doane and a former Liberal minister Mal Brough to ‘advance the interests of the LNP and Mr Brough.’ Mal Brough is standing for Mr Slipper’s seat as the endorsed Liberal National Party candidate at the next election…..

    http://enpassant.com.au/2012/12/12/putting-the-rare-slipper-in-the-liberal-party-brand-is-b-rough-ash-by-another-name/

  236. This is a ringing indictment of the Liberal Party and its leadership. Apart from their usual tactic of raising scuttlebutt without evidence (Godwin Grech, the Rudd ute case and the AWU slush fund accusations come to mind), this was the first to get to court. And because it was so driven by political machinations, it was not deserving enough to have the allegations heard.

    http://enpassant.com.au/2012/12/12/putting-the-rare-slipper-in-the-liberal-party-brand-is-b-rough-ash-by-another-name/

  237. For example Mark Dreyfus QC, a parliamentary secretary, said the case was ‘an attack designed to change the balance in the House of Representatives’ and ‘an attempt to overthrow the government by sinister anti-democratic means’.

    Tony Abbott as the poor man’s Malcolm Fraser eh? Too bad for the Opposition they couldn’t find a John Kerr. Of course if Dreyfus is correct that this was an attempt to overthrow the government by anti-democratic means, one wonders when the show trials against Opposition figures begin.

    Or maybe Ma….

    http://enpassant.com.au/2012/12/12/putting-the-rare-slipper-in-the-liberal-party-brand-is-b-rough-ash-by-another-name/

  238. CU
    I am glad you pointed out that non of the media have seen to have a legal expert on the news to explain the judgement because that is the usual and it didn’t happen. I did read a couple of tweets here lawyers said there would be no grounds/leave to appeal as the judgment was so thorough.
    So it would be good to hear a few legal opinions

  239. Sue, just a couple to explain how unprecedented and ground breaking this ruling is. Someone to explain what it means.

    Brandis is probably correct when he said the ruling was not about Bought, as he was not a party to the matter. Even so, what does one do with the accusations made against him by the judge.

    What we need to know, what should happen now. Surely some of what the judge has ruled on must border on, if not criminal matters.

    Yes, where are the law professors explaining what has occurred..

    The ruling itself, is newsworthy.

    It is no longer about the guilt or otherwise of Slipper. It is about a political conspiracy to bring sown a government.

    The judge also made it clear, none of the accusations against Slipper amounted to much, and would probably fail.

    Is it time for another police investigation?

    Also the comparison they are attempting to make between this and the AWU matter do not hold water at all. There is no comparison. One is about rumour and unfounded allegations.

    This is a ruling made by a judge, outlining the wrongs that have occurred. It is a court decision, based on the evidence put forward, not hearsay..

  240. scaper, never tried it, have you.

    What is wrong with wanting to know more about the legal side of the gound breaking decision made yesterday.

    May be scaper, you can tell me why they are keeping it a secret. I suspect you are not as thick as you try to make out.

  241. Tony Abbott told the AEC he sought legal advice before assuring his slush fund donors that they could remain secret. Did he really? As Margo Kingston uncovered, there are gaping holes in his story

    This is the final in a series of extracts from Margo Kingston’s 2007 book Still Not Happy, John. Read the first extract here, the second here and the third here. Read Kingston on why New Matilda is publishing this material now here.

    The breakthrough came on 3 September 2003 courtesy of a tip-off from a concerned insider. The bloke who’d decided to let Abbott off the hook was named Brad Edgman, I was told, the head of the AEC’s Funding and Disclosure branch at the time. I gave him a call……

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/13/did-tony-abbott-lie-electoral-commission

  242. On 8 June Abbott asked the AEC to overturn the order because it was “unreasonable”. Even if the AEC was right legally, it was unfair to force him to reveal his donors six years after the event, he wrote. In other words, forget your duty to the people and do me a favour, okay?

    The AEC duly “set aside the decision to issue the notice”. It gave the public no reason why and closed the file. It also closed the file on Abbott’s financial dealings with Terry Sharples.

    On 21 June 2006 the Howard government passed laws raising the donation disclosure threshold from $1500 to $10,000, the amount Abbott’s donors gave.

    This is the final in a series of edited extracts from Margo Kingston’s 2007 book, Still Not Happy, John (Penguin).

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/13/did-tony-abbott-lie-electoral-commission

  243. blog You wouldn’t believe the number of outraged readers who’ve contacted me today encouraging me to take The Australian newspaper to town for its controversially headlined story in this morning’s edition, entitled “A billion Chinese to get an NBN for a third of the cost of ours”. Well, I could have knocked this one on its head, but Crikey correspondent Bernard Keane has already done an admirable job ahead of me. Keane writes (we recommend you click here for the full article):

    “China isn’t getting an NBN, and it doesn’t cost a third of ours, regardless of what The Australian claims. I want to say something that will shock you: a story in The Australian about the NBN is rubbish. I know. I know. I’ll just wait a few minutes while you pick yourselves up off the floor, dust yourselves off and get over the shock.”

    I don’t think many Delimiter readers would take what News Ltd publications have to say about the NBN that seriously at this point, but just in case you were getting a bit worried about this one, rest easy. The good Bernard’s got your back. Journalistic sanity has been restored. Of course, it wasn’t precisely hard. All Bernard had to do was prove that you couldn’t actually roll out a similar fibre NBN to the whole of China for ~ $12 billion. Not precisely the hardest task, given the size of the country and its population. But then, this kind of maths is beyond many people.

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/13/did-tony-abbott-lie-electoral-commission

  244. So asking questions of Mr. Abbott and his party is harassment.
    That is what I have been hearing all day on the ABC.

  245. just as Fairfax calls “labor seeking revenge”

    How about Labor seeking Justice for MP and Government

    Still Fairfax has invested a lot of newsprint and journalist wages in smear all through the year.

  246. o put it another way, one of the most senior press gallery journalists in the country was intimately involved in a political conspiracy to tear down the highest elected official of the Parliament. It’s no wonder that journalists have such poor reputations.

    The Slipper affair shows why this term of Parliament has been so nasty and bitter. Rather than accept the legitimacy of Julia Gillard’s minority government, the Opposition has consciously tried to attack it and its integrity at every turn. Instead of developing constructive alternative policies, the Coalition has engaged in a zero sum war of attrition that has left both major parties damaged in the eyes of voters. It has hatched plots and engineered dirty tricks to destroy Labor with fell-swoop controversies, rather than build support through the more traditional methods of policy development and debate. Worse, much of the media has followed the Opposition’s lead, seizing upon hazy conspiracies and poorly substantiated allegations with an alacrity that has been little tempered by the exercise of judgment, or the gathering of hard facts……….
    http://newmatilda.com/2012/12/13/slipper-conspiracy-coalition-win

  247. Charming. I might look at things from a different perspective…using both eyes.

    Haven’t had time to look at the judgement, I dare say I might have more insight after tomorrow nights function of legal beagles.

    On the face of it…this judgement will set a precedent that could have adverse effects for private workplaces, right through to the public service and beyond. The consequences could be dire and could swing the pendulum in favour of the perpetrator.

    Might be a victory in your eye, but remember…this precedent could also be the advantage of the other side in the future.

  248. scaper must have sought some advice on what to say. Sadly, he is not making much sense. Must have got the advice mixed up.

    Still has not read the judgement but has much to say.

  249. scaper, what you are really saying, you need to find a new way to attack the PM. Hard in this case, as it is all about the Opposition.

  250. ” Might be a victory in your eye, but remember…this precedent could also be the advantage of the other side in the future”

    Yea Right!. And if my aunty had balls she would have been my uncle

    Liberals… Making bullshit a science since federation.

  251. ………..At the top of this list is Mal Brough, a former Howard government minister who is the pre-selected LNP candidate for Mr Slipper’s Sunshine Coast seat of Fisher. Justice Rares said Mr Brough colluded with Mr Ashby and another former Slipper staffer to do Mr Slipper and the Gillard Government political harm in the interests of the Coalition.

    Also red-faced is shadow attorney-general George Brandis, who told the Senate no court would make the decision Justice Rares did and virtually bet his legal reputation on it. He lost the bet.

    The salutary lesson is one of what happens when combatants criminalise politics. It always ends in tears…..

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/legal-ploy-slips-up-to-end-in-valley-of-tears/story-e6frf7jo-1226535665492

  252. I though this whole thing was about alleged sexual harassment from a boss to an employee. It looks like the judge did not rule on this. Perhaps the judge should have ruled yes or no and left it at that without trying to bring in conspiracy theories.

    Did the judge ever produce any evidence that this thing was invented by Brough to damage Slipper??

  253. No, the judge did not rule on that because he said it would be unfair to do so. The judge also made it clear, if guilty, if would not amount to much,

    “Did the judge ever produce any evidence that this thing was invented by Brough to damage Slipper??”

    That is the trouble Neil, there is pages and pages and pages of the evidence presented to the court, that backs up the judges ruling.

  254. “Opposition Leader Tony Abbott’s office has denied it began drafting a media release responding to James Ashby’s court action against then-speaker Peter Slipper the night before the story broke.

    The metadata behind the final document sent to media outlets indicates it was “created” at 11.08pm on Friday, April 20, 2012 – before News Limited published its exclusive story on the Saturday.

    The original story was posted online at 1.17am on Saturday, April 21.

    Asked to explain the discrepancy between the time the document was apparently created and transmitted to the media on the Saturday, Mr Abbott’s office said that during April the computer server timestamps were out by 10 hours.
    AAP saw several other documents on the computer which showed the same discrepancy.

    “Our records clearly show that the press release was drafted, converted into a PDF, and issued on the morning of the April 21, 2012,” a spokesman for Mr Abbott told AAP.

    Mr Abbott’s statement was emailed to the media at 9.17am on the Saturday morning as he held a media conference at Hervey Bay in Queensland.

    The timing of the document’s creation is important because it could imply Mr Abbott’s office may have had prior knowledge of the upcoming story.

    Asked when work had begun on writing the media release, Mr Abbott’s office declined to comment.”

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbott-denies-slipper-case-tipoff-20121213-2bca7.html

    Surely there is a way to test the validity of the assertion there was a discrepancy in a time stamp.

  255. Now the judge has ruled in favour of Slipper the left over medieval bully boys AKA Liberals, are now squealing like stuck pigs. I love it. The Liberal party is in this conspiracy up to their scaly necks. I bet the dog and bones are running hot all over the country. That’s Xmas rooted, Bwaaaaa. Who was it said 48 hours is a long time in politics.

    It is just a matter of who will go first now. Labor dumping Gillard or the Lieberal’s dumping Abbott. The waiting game is now on. My money is still on Rudd. He is a winner, and if put back in the job, it will go down Labors finest hour.

  256. 10 hours sounds a funny mis-function. I am sure it can be checked.

    Are we at last getting leaks from the right, Has the ship started to develop holes?

  257. I though this whole thing was about….
    Did the judge ever produce any evidence…

    FFS Neil – read the judgement instead of making inane statements and asking stupid questions 🙄

  258. FFS Neil – read the judgement instead of making inane statements and asking stupid questions

    I don’t have the time.

    I am not a legal person but it does seem strange to me that the judge did not just give a yes or no to alleged sexual harrassment. Instead he goes of into conspiracy land. How the hell would you prove that Brough set this whole thing up. I think it would be impossible.

  259. I don’t have the time.

    So instead you waste our collective time with your inane mumblings 🙄
    You don’t need to be a lawyer to read it!

  260. Neil, it will take half an hour., Is easy to read, and you will then understand. It answers all the questions you have asked.

  261. Neil, , it is no longer about the PM and the speaker. It is no longer about Sip[per and some smutty comments.

    It is about Mr. Ashby, colluding with Mr. Bough and others to plot and scheme, to use the court to bring down a speaker of the house, and a government.

  262. But you do need a very good legal mind to understand the consequences…if any.

    I’ll leave the fingering of the entrails to the beagles.

    It is the precedent, not the victory that endures.

  263. ” PJ, The PM will be standing long after Abbott has hit the dust.”

    Hey that’s not wishful thinking on my part, I hope you are right. For mine she has been the best thing since sliced bread. However, I like most people have a mixture of friends, for some reason they don’t like her. Go figure!

  264. Yes scaper you could be correct. That is why I have criticized the media for not providing information in that regard. We are lacking information about what the ruling means, and what happens next.

    What one can find by reading it, why the judge made the ruling he did. That does not in this case, take a legal mind.

  265. ruth Seeker
    DECEMBER 13, 2012 @ 6:01 PM
    Brandis betting his legal reputation on it…. Nyaaaaahahahahah

    Sorbent I recon.

    Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 13, 2012 @ 6:30 PM
    “FFS Neil – read the judgement instead of making inane statements and asking stupid questions”

    I don’t have the time.

    I am not a legal person but it does seem strange to me…blah blah wank wank lie lie

    Oh its inconvenient to read it? yet you comment on it..Seriously….your working hard to defend the mantle of Best Factless, zombile, neocon troll.

  266. “Did the judge ever produce any evidence that this thing was invented by Brough to damage Slipper??”

    Now that is one of the stupidest things I have read and can only come from an ideologically blinded wingnut. Of course if a nut job off the street claiming to be the greatest adjudicator in the universe says Labor is guilty of eating babies without a shred of proof, then Neil would believe it.

    But a certified judge of law who has to go through evidence to make a ruling, it’s their very job and what they go through years of law school for, Neil questions if they produced evidence.

    Well in one way Neil is correct, the judge didn’t produce any evidence, the evidence, and there was a lot of it, was presented to the judge for him to make a ruling on.

    Neil before shooting off at the mouth and calling judges to question please read up on our legal system otherwise you are being nothing more than ideologically disingenuous, the thing you accuse others here of.

  267. Neil before shooting off at the mouth and calling judges to question please read up on our legal system

    I thought it was a sexual harrassment case between Slipper and Ashby. Was Brough called in to testify and give evidence in this conspiracy theory of the judge??

  268. For stuff sake Neil before you put your foot further into your mouth to the point you’re using you arse to walk, read the judgement.

    Even in this post there are parts of it that are précis of what the judged ruled but you as is your norm ignore what doesn’t suit your narrow ideological view.

    Or is another of your norms, are you being deliberately obtuse and ignorant to play dumb as a distraction/diversion?

  269. Neil, please do some reading and you will have something to think about.

    The judge found that the matter was not a sexual harassment case, He found that it was a SET UP, to show Mr. Slipper up in the worst possible light, to destroy him politically.

    The judge came to this conclusion based on the evidence place in front of him.

    The judge outline the process that Mr, Ashby and Mr Bough went through in his summing up.

    The judge read everyone of the many thousands of text messages. Everyone. He als read them in context. They did not portray, what was printed in the media. Now Neil, you can read much of what they judge read, and come to your own conclusions.

    Do that and come back. Let us know what you think.

    You have already repeated the above comments many times.

  270. He found that it was a SET UP, to show Mr. Slipper up in the worst possible light, to destroy him politically.

    Good. If that is the case the first thing Gillard should do if give Slipper the Speakers job back. Can’t have people lose their jobs over unfounded allegations.

  271. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 13, 2012 @ 9:08 PM
    I thought it was a sexual harrassment case between Slipper and Ashby. Was Brough called in to testify and give evidence in this conspiracy theory of the judge??

    Why don’t your read the judgement? Educate yourself…Its pretty clear. Your too buzy (lazy) to read the judgement and it may be a little above your cut and paste Bolt BS. .

    We. don’t need your uninformed comment and twisted opinion which bears no weight when you are not enlightened with the FACTS.

    Here is all you have to worry about is the facts….

    Citation: Ashby v Commonwealth of Australia (No 4) [2012] FCA 1411
    File number: NSD 580 of 2012

    Parties: JAMES HUNTER ASHBY v COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA and PETER SLIPPER

    Held: proceedings an abuse of process – applicant to pay costs

    You are a factles one man yawnfest..

  272. Here is a FACTUAL document for the LAZY factless Trolls

    3 Mr Slipper applied to have these proceedings dismissed as an abuse of the process of the Court. Mr Slipper contended that Mr Ashby’s predominant purpose in bringing the proceedings against him, in combination with Karen Doane (another member of Mr Slipper’s staff), the Hon Malcolm Brough (who was seeking to contest Mr Slipper’s seat for the LNP at the next federal election), Steve Lewis (a journalist, employed by one of News Limited’s subsidiaries as the national political correspondent for the Daily Telegraph), Anthony McClellan (a media consultant engaged by Mr Ashby) and Mr Ashby’s lawyers, Michael Harmer and his firm, Harmers was, in effect, to inflict damage on Mr Slipper’s reputation and political career in order to assist the LNP and Mr Brough and, so, to advance Mr Ashby’s and Ms Doane’s prospects of advancement or preferment by the LNP. The present application has been bitterly fought.
    4 The legal principles at the heart of Mr Slipper’s central allegation that the proceeding is an abuse of process are not in doubt.

    CONCLUSION
    196 Having read all of the text messages on Mr Ashby’s mobile phone, as Mr Ashby’s senior counsel invited me to do, as well as the other evidence, I have reached the firm conclusion that Mr Ashby’s predominant purpose for bringing these proceedings was to pursue a political attack against Mr Slipper and not to vindicate any legal claim he may have for which the right to bring proceedings exists. Mr Ashby began planning that attack at least by the beginning of February 2012. As Mr Ashby and Ms Doane agreed in their texts of 30 March 2012 what they were doing “will tip the govt to Mal’s [Brough] and the LNP’s advantage”: [66]. It may be a coincidence that Mr Ashby suggested to Mr Slipper the idea of becoming Speaker just as Mr Brough began to move towards challenging Mr Slipper for LNP pre-selection for his seat and Mr Ashby ended up in an alliance in late March 2012 with Mr Brough to bring down Mr Slipper after he became Speaker. It is not necessary to make any finding about this or about whether Mr Slipper did sexually harass Mr Ashby in any of the ways alleged. It is also not necessary to consider whether these proceedings are “vexatious proceedings” within the meaning of r 6.02 or if that expression has a different meaning in r 26.01(1)(b) under which the Court can give summary judgment if “the proceeding is frivolous or vexatious”.

  273. Instead he goes of [sic] into conspiracy land.

    Is this going to be the basis of Ashby’s appeal, that Justice Rares is a conspiracy theorist? LOL

    Ah yes, the Libs are sqealing like stuck pigs.

    I’ll also mention that bloggers Dragonista and Andrew Elder, both ex-Liberals, are trying to pass off some of the blame onto Gillard for appointing Slipper in the first place. Dragonista’s latest lament failed to mention Justice Rares’ decision at all.

    This is going to be the best Xmas ever.

  274. sue
    DECEMBER 13, 2012 @ 10:57 PM
    Good one Sue..

    silkworm
    DECEMBER 13, 2012 @ 10:58 PM
    Indeed Silkworm..I posted the extract on that Blog 🙂

  275. Mobius, I agree not a chance that Slipper will be offered the option of returning to the Speaker’s chair. Ashby and his backers have made certain of that by threatening to launch an Appeal..clearly with a potential Appeal a (remote) possibility, Slipper will not be Speaker. That is aside from Slipper personally..who it could be speculated needs time to regather his life as far away from the spotlight as is feasibly possible. As per *always* this media speculation is just another media look over there moment as an attempt to speak about Anyone But Abbott/Pyne/Brandis/Brough.

  276. PJ,

    I like most people have a mixture of friends, for some reason they don’t like her. Go figure!

    Australia’s got one of the most one-sided partisan media of any democracy in the world. Badmouthing her character 24/7. Anyone’s standing in public perception would be assaulted by that level relentless assault. It’s inevitable, and an advantage the Fiberals rely on.

  277. Come to think of it that’s also the bible for the rabid Right who infest this place on occasion, mostly when they think things are going well for them otherwise they’re scarce.

  278. Bunch of IT experts are pulling apart Abbott’s 10 hour server time stamp argument and how Abbott’s explanation on what happened with the times on his release to the media is impossible.

    In other words in what will be absolutely no surprise to any of us here, Abbott LIED again.

    It would take a reporter scant minutes to research this and catch Abbott out into a brain freeze if his minder doesn’t get him to run run run away again. But I doubt the media will ask Abbott how his release of what he said wasn’t a prepared piece had a time 10 hours before an announcement, and it was impossible for that time stamp to be inaccurate.

  279. These words from Justice Rares shoot down Neil’s “I thought it was a sexual harrassment case between Slipper and Ashby” argument in one go…

    ”There was no hint in contemporaneous texts with his friends, of Mr Ashby feeling upset as a result of sexual harassment. Rather those texts suggested that he was planning to use the record of his texts with Mr Slipper to empower others in a way that would affect the balance of power in the House of Representatives.”

  280. Mobius:

    It would take a reporter scant minutes to research this and catch Abbott out into a brain freeze if his minder doesn’t get him to run run run away again. But I doubt the media will ask Abbott how his release of what he said wasn’t a prepared piece had a time 10 hours before an announcement, and it was impossible for that time stamp to be inaccurate.

    Fingers crossed that Laura’s got the guts…

  281. I’m jumping all over the place here 😦

    It is all kind of exciting, Tom. I’m having trouble sitting still myself. 😉

  282. As a Geek…I totally concur, blaming the network is a very very bad idea. Metadata is a blinding mirror of truth…

  283. My bold

    Yes Sortius has a PDF created by the same user (mcdulingg) submitted from the day before clearly showing “+10’00′” (AEST) time zone. So that’s that, The date has been modified on the 23/04/12 to attempt to show the time zone as UTC.

    Tampered Time Stamp

    So they’ve tampered with the time stamp to protect Abbott in his lie.

    I really hope, probably in vein, that some high up journalist runs with this. Please Aunty for once do you job, buck Ltd News and your right wing Abbott mate boss and report the deliberate attempt to cover up a conspiracy by Abbott.

  284. Bacchus
    DECEMBER 14, 2012 @ 1:10 PM
    If When this press release is proved by the geeks, Abbott is stuffed!

    As a network engineer and somewhat of an expert on Adobe and embedded metadata, this is a no contest. If a network clock was out by that much the network would fall over. Also there is embedded metadata of revision changes in all Adobe and MS products.Even if the local time on a PC was out (say a laptop) it would be out of sync handshaking to the server if the document was stored or sent via the network. Bottom line, it is all traceable so to assert such nonsense is a huge Luddite error without consultation from a IT professional.

    What a Christmas present.

  285. el gordo stupid. Look over there at Thomson, Ashby is only an apparent even though evidence ruled on by a judge proves it was an actual.

    Are you really that desperate for attention to troll that?

  286. el gordo
    DECEMBER 14, 2012 @ 1:58 PM
    The Ashby thingy was an abuse of process, apparently, but the Thomson saga is yet to unravel.

    Absolutely, like the Slipper treacherousness plot it will unravel the Libs, just change the name to Kathy Jackson…Big raid no charges……Big talk no charges…cue the chamber sprint. of no consequence

  287. This comment at the Sortius site:

    Wasn’t it reported that Abbott was involved in the having the goods on Slipper in the 2003 incident. Could his involvement in this eposode be the supply of this information to Ashby Via his contact with Pyne?

  288. Pingback: The ‘Right’ to be heard: what we heard. | Café Whispers

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