To sue, or not to sue

Speaking to reporters (who are hungry for any dirt on the Prime Minister over the AWU non-story), Deputy Leader of the Opposition Julie Bishop gave them something to lather over when she accused the Prime Minister of criminal conduct when she was a lawyer in the 1990s. Flanked by the media, Ms Bishop alleged:

Ms Gillard deliberately did not open a file when she helped set up a union slush fund because she wanted to hide the fact it would be used to “siphon” money.

I consider these defamatory and unproven allegations, and without doubt they are.

Those remarks were made on November 27.

The next day she followed it up with more defamatory and unproven allegations.

Julie Bishop started the day alleging the Prime Minister was like a bank robber’s knowing accomplice who had benefited from the heist – a Bonnie to her then boyfriend, Bruce Wilson’s, Clyde. ”She provided the stolen vehicle, she drove him to the bank and she looked away while he robbed the bank,” she told her party room, according to the official party spokesman.

”She [the Prime Minister] and Wilson and [sidekick Ralph] Blewitt wanted to hide from the AWU the fact that an unauthorised entity was being set up to siphon funds for their benefit and not for the benefit of the AWU, ” she told reporters.

By all reports she has backed away from those defamatory statements, though she has not retracted from them.

Why I consider these allegations defamatory is that they were made without the cover of parliamentary privilege. She unwisely (or stupidly) shot her mouth off and left herself open on this one.

I’m no lawyer, but with a bit of logic I can deduce that only a couple of options are available in pursuit of this issue (excluding the likely option that it will probably be allowed to fizzle away).

The first option in in Ms Bishop’s court. Retract the statement and offer a full apology. This would be politically suicidal, not so much for her, but for her party which is intent on keeping the AWU non-story in the media in their relentless attack on the Prime Minister. But it would go a long way in deflating the second option, and that is for the Prime Minister to sue Julie Bishop for defamation. The problem with this option is that it could be in the courts for some time, and although she will most likely be successful in the case, it could be politically damaging for the Prime Minister as no doubt the media will try and siphon as much mud out of it as they can. And again, no doubt, it will be headlined on the front page of every paper and news website in the country.

I think it will fizzle out. I also can’t see Julie Bishop delivering the honourable first option or even being held account for it with a friendly media ally. So the ball would certainly be in the Prime Minister’s court (no pun intended this time). So, to sue, or not to sue, that is the question.

What do you think? Better still, want do you want to see happen?

158 comments on “To sue, or not to sue

  1. I would love to see the PM sue the pants off Bishop – and I wonder – if an action was actually commenced, would it force Bishop to retract? Maybe not. But how I’d love to see a prime example being made of her slanderous gob!

  2. I’m with you on that one, Artee. And how stupid is Bishop? As a lawyer she should have known better than to say stuff like that.

    Go for her, I say. Make her grovel.

  3. I wonder what the statute of limitations is on these matters. Ms Gillard won’t be PM forever. Could she sue in 5 years time when she hands over the reins to a new Labor PM? 🙂

  4. Follow

    margo kingston
    @AusElectoralCom I’ll try again – When you learned in 2003 that Abbott had misled you in 1998 did you refer the matter to the police?
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  5. The no-policy zone have decided that slurring the government character is their best strategy for taking government. They will be doubly worse all next year unless halted now. However they would like a legal battle as they have the money to fight it and the MSM will report things their way. Best way might be to point out their suspect characters re Bishops anti asbestos workers & Abbott’s anti Hanson slush fund.

  6. The aspect of defamation law that you ignore in your piece Migs is the requirement to prove that that the alleged defamation has caused actual and material harm to the plaintiff, in Gillard’s case she has virtually no “reputation” for honesty or veracity left after the way that she lied about the carbon tax. Further suing for defamation can backfire horribly as Oscar Wilde found out when he sued over claims that he was a homosexual he lost the case and ended up doing time in Reading Jail for buggery.

    Finally truth is an absolute defence against an action for defamation so there is almost no chance that were this matter to ever come before a court that the court would find in favour of Gillard. ]
    She can’t convince the Australian people that she has been truthful about this matter so how do you think that she would go with a Jury?

  7. Migs and Artee, I am with you, except I would love to see her go fort Abbot as well as I believe that he has defamed her as well, as she indicated in her 15 minute speech in parliament.

    I agree with you migs, about how stupid Bishop is for such a supposedly experienced lawyer, as I wrote in my poem Julie Bishop, after she hed first spoken at the beginning of last week.

    Julie Bishop

    Now Julie Bishop…. is her name
    industrial relations.. was her game
    As.. a lawyer…. from the west
    Striving to be… the corporates best
    But not supporting.. workers rights
    But those of.. corporate.. shinning lights

    Her corporate client… C S R
    To not pay compo… raised the bar
    With Bishop’s help… they sought to try
    To force delay…. till victims die
    But the case was lost.. as the Justice saw
    That their corporate lawyer… erred in law

    But worse than that… she showed her hand
    As one… prepared… to take a stand
    Against… what’s moral.. right.. and good
    Like… an Anti…. Robin Hood
    To steal… Asbestos victims.. pay
    So corporate profits… win the day

    With no compassion.. concern.. or care
    She turned her back.. on what was fair
    And now she’s… brought her moral lack
    To parliament… as the Abbotts hack
    With the dirt file there… for all to see
    As Abbott ducks… his misogyny

    While Abbott’s mute… the Bishop shows
    For a lawyer… how little… law she knows
    With questions… based on false premise
    Proving Bishop’s full of wind.. and piss
    Renowned for cats claws… and pussy calls
    Abbott sends her out… to take the falls

    To prove… to all…. exclusively
    He doesn’t… have…. Misogyny
    And women love him… this is true
    Cos their loyalty.. is real true blue
    And the Abbott.. mustn’t… be a Jerk
    Cos the girls… will do his.. dirty work

    With lies.. and death stares her.. armoury
    To disguise.. her leaders.. misogyny
    She’ll go out.. looking like… the fool
    Being used as Abbotts… latest… tool
    With feet in mouth she’ll… take the falls
    Cos Abbott… doesn’t have the…. Balls

    But as election year… rolls around
    And Abbott.. keeps on.. losing ground
    Our PM… gets on… with the job
    Of taking the fight.. to the Abbotts mob
    And continues turning up the heat
    As they open their mouths.. to just change feet
    And their policy vacuum…. clear to see
    Snatching defeat… from the jaws… of victory 👿 👿

    Cheers 😀

    PS… Troll, you really are an idiot, the courts work in realities and what can be proven, not the biased, puerile and twisted mindset of you and your fellow morons.

  8. TS

    Troll, you really are an idiot, the courts work in realities and what can be proven, not the biased, puerile and twisted mindset of you and your fellow morons.

    Clearly you know nothing about this aspect of the civil law or you would have disputed what I have actually said rather than spitting venom at me as you do above.
    As for your verse, well, don’t give up your day job 😉

  9. Troll once again you prove the point …. you really are an idiot.

    And you can’t even put a sentence together without looking stupid, much less making it rhyme, so go and get a day job… other than trolling. and stop spouting shit.

  10. The Worst Opposition of All Time.

    Who, when they were in government, were the Worst Government of All Time.

  11. Iain and Tweed. The nonsense you write.,

    The PM is not in a position to sue.

    Noticed the gutless wonders were very careful not to do this,

    This is why the PM dared them to repeat the words within the house. Noticed they were careful not to do so.

    Within the parliament, they are safe from being sued. They are also in danger of being charged with misleading the house. A serious offence, which they tried hard to place the PM in the same position.

    It is not a matter of being afraid.

    One needs to remember, this PM is willing to wait to strike, There is time to do so.

    As for Pickering, maybe the PM believes she has better ways to spend her time, than go after the creep. Not quite the same, as being called a criminal.

    There is no evidence that the PM is a liar. There is no evidence she did the wrong thing by Mr. Rudd.

    Mr. Rudd was removed by a vote of nearly all his caucus.

    The one liar, just did not occur. The PM in the same sentence, promise to deal with man made climate change, with a price on carbon emissions, which she has done. It was not her fault she could not deliver fully on the poker machine legislation. The PM has delivered what was possible. At the end of the day, politics is the art of the possible.

    As for proving harm, I believe that would be easy to prove, as the attack is only for one reason only, to destroy and remove a PM. Do not try and tell us, that after two decades, Mr. Abbott and Co have become interested in Justice. This matter was in the public arena on a regular basis over that time, The Howard government could have acted at any time. Only became interested, when Ms. Gillard became PM.

    If the PM sued now, it would create a diversion that she and we would not want.

  12. Gillard won’t sue as she would have to prove without a doubt that what Bishop said is not true. That would open a can of maggots!

    Attended the IPA Xmas drinks last night. Brandis could not attend but I did have a chat to his staffer…”boiling frog” was mentioned. There is much more to come out. The Boulder affair is much more serious than what has been alleged thus far and I learnt something else.

    This is not going to go away, Gillard will be pursued with gusto.

  13. Truth seeker, maybe he should just go get a job, any job, Staying home to look after nearly full grown kids,most women would not even see as a job.

  14. Maybe the PM feels her time and money going after the likes of Pickering. In this I support her fully. Would only give him more notoriety.

  15. I think that Ms. Bishop might have to prove she is telling the truth. I believe that would be impossible to do.

  16. Julie Bishop shown up by the press as a LIAR, was probably a “good return” for the PM. To have a journalist challenge Julie Bishop by reading her words back at her on live TV was “top of the shelf”. But to have Julie Bishop acknowledge defeat by scurrying away and not be available to the press ever since is as the advertisement goes “priceless”.

  17. Ms Dillard sue Ms Bishop – I would like to see that.
    Ms Dillard is not even that stupid – the Issue would go on for ever and undoubtedly
    bring out more damaging facts about the shady past of the current PM and friends.
    AWU saga will keep going in 2013 and can only be a nightmare for Federal Labor.
    Ask guru John Falkner for advise and take note for once or get wasted.
    Very simple really – but you must listen first.

  18. Nah, the Hilton but the subject of privatising the ABC was discussed. Had an interesting chat with a Keating government Minister in regards to the Dysfunction in the Labor caucus.

  19. Just thinking of that IPA Xmas drinks. Did they give away free pressies eg

    autographed copies of Abbott’s book, the one that is apparently his policies

    autographed photos of Lord Monkton

    dvd’s of the Convoy of no confidence

    bundles of ciggies, pre-plain packets

    boxed sets of the Bolt shows

    a framed photo of Gina and her lump of coal

    a years subscription to the Australian

    Even free pressies come at a cost.

  20. Yep, Bishop is in hiding. Actually, if one was up on what is going on one would know she is in Beijing, leading a delegation. Brandis is there too, that’s why he didn’t attend last nights function.

  21. The All Spin, No Substance opposition leader avoids media scrutiny…

    …It should be a serious concern that the man who wants to be prime minister … doesn’t give longer, searching interviews.

    The fact Abbott and his advisers have a deliberate policy to avoid scrutiny should be a major concern for all who take an interest in our national public life.

    Dennis Atkins, Courier Mail, 23 June 2012

    What is Abbott hiding?

    Abbott’s minders probably fear a repeat of his reaction last time he was asked a moderately-searching question…

  22. The aspect of defamation law that you ignore in your piece Migs is the requirement to prove that that the alleged defamation has caused actual and material harm to the plaintiff

    Bullshit as usuaul from Mr Hall:

    That the words were capable of a defamatory meaning as understood by ordinary members of society. Defamatory meaning could be anything which harms the person, in their reputation, their business or in the way other people treat them. The law does not say that the plaintiff must show actual proof of being harmed; it is enough that the false statement could have led to harm.

  23. She can’t convince the Australian people that she has been truthful about this matter so how do you think that she would go with a Jury?

    Probably an excellent chance actually. Courts deal in facts, not smear and innuendo 🙄

    Having said that, I don’t think the PM will sue – she has much bigger fish to fry between now and the 2016 election…

  24. There is no doubt that harm has been caused. Just ask the idiots who hang off every word the media prints.

  25. Oh, & here come the Trolls, as per usual, with their fact-less crap. Factless Troll, I don’t recall either Abbott or Costello being unduly harmed by the allegations made in a certain book-yet they still ran to the courts demanding damages & the pulping of said book. Again, the thing I’ve noticed about the Lunar Right is that they can dish out the smear & innuendo, but are the quickest to “run home to mummy” when anyone starts fighting back. Go back to your troll holes, & gnaw the ends of your “cunning plots”-the time for your Lord & Master is swiftly coming to an end. The big story for 2013 is going to be the “did Abbott lie to the AEC about legal advice re: donor disclosure to ‘Australians for Honest Politics’ back in 2003?” coupled with “did Abbott use his position as a Minister of the Crown to bully the AEC into not taking further action”. Those two stories will make the giving of legal advice by a, then, small time lawyer look like the “Storm in a tea-cup” the majority of Australians already see it as.

  26. Also, got to love how that moron, Tweed, uses the claims of a convicted fraudster (Pickering) to bolster his own accusations against Gillard. Why do the Lunar Right so enjoy hanging out with people & organizations of dubious moral character (Bishop with CSR, Abbott with Kathy Jackson, Pyne, Bishop & Brough with Ashby, Bishop with Blewitt & apparently the entire Far Right with Pickering)?

  27. Mangrove Jack
    I stand corrected on the word “Gaol” however it does not change my point.


    You can make a big fuss about points of law and spit all the venom that you please at me but that does not change the fact that Gillard would never actually sue because she has been trying so desperately to make the whole issue go away fro political reasons.
    Some people grow when they are in positions of power others diminish the office they hold by they way that they preform and the decisions that they make. The simple fact is that Gillard has made one bad decision after another while in the lodge and the Australian people know that and the reason that the AWU scandal has not gone away is because it confirms the belief that poor judgement is foundational part of her persona.
    Now we can argue about the what ifs of a hypothetical court case until the cows come home but you are kidding yourself if you think that Juries decide their verdicts “just on the facts”. Juries decide on how truthful they think the plaintiff is and do you really think that a majority of jurors would believe Gillard is truthful?

  28. scaper,

    If the coalition is relying on the advice of Brandis QC, they will be sadly disappointed again. What’s his strike rate so far? 😉 How’s that Thomson matter that he referred to the NSW police commissioner a couple of years ago coming along?

  29. do you really think that a majority of jurors would believe Gillard is truthful?

    When confronted with facts, rather than the sort of crap that you and the other right-whingers spout constantly, YES!

    However, as I posted earlier, I agree she will not sue and yes, that is for political reasons.

    The simple fact is that Gillard has made one bad decision after another while in the lodge

    What IS it with right-whinge trolls and the inability to separate fact from opinion – this does seem to be endemic 🙄

  30. I love all these Bush Lawyers with legal opinions. Its very simple.

    Both Bishop and Abbot have repeated the allegations in public with the clear implication that our Prime Minster was involved in, implicated, facilitated and was party to “Criminality”.

    The intent is absolutely clear and as for proving defamation and damage? This is the reputation of the Prime Minister of Australia, which they have besmirched, defamed and accused of knowingly been involved in criminality without a shred of legal evidence. This is despite an extensive investigation which has not laid one charge, had two journalists formally retract defamatory allegations and have loose canon shock jock Micheal Smith ripped from 2UE.

    Their is no question that Prime Minister Gillard has a case. Whether the Prime Minister pursues the matter is a hard call politically considering the amount of diversionary policy oxygen this Red Herring has already consumed. Personally, I would love to see them both Bishop and Abbott sued to watch them squirm to defend their actions, just before an election.

  31. I suspect that enough damage was done to Julie Bishop’s credibility (not that she had that much) to just let the issue sit on a back burner — for now. The sue option remains.
    Bishop’s ‘run and hide’ has done more damage to the NO Coalition than Gillard getting righteously indignant at this point in time.

  32. @Bacchus – because trolls need to see everything from their own limited perspective and colour everything accordingly. Politics and political debate has entered the realm of the soundbyte, opinion and emotion. Facts seem to matter less and less with the press that we have now.

  33. apparently there was a montage, an apology, to the PM (?) on ABC news 24

    anyone know what is was about? Even if it was to the PM?

  34. If the Prime Minister does not take legal action she will be seen as either weak or having something to hide. The non story will continue just below the surface.

    The PM could call for an Judicial Inquiry into Tony Abbott’s slush fund cover up.
    Perhaps Mark Scott (an editor at Fairfax at the time) may have questions to answer.

  35. “As for suing a “serial bankrupt,” simply it would be a waste of time, and only give him oxygen”

    And Gillard hasn’t given him any oxygen at all!

  36. Ricky, absolutely, and the way the trolls are playing with themselves they will almost certainly, soon go blind.
    And as far as Bishop and Brandis are concerned, from their statements, I would not want them doing conveyancing for me, much less any real legal work.

    In Brandis’s case QC= Queer C…….. ( fill in the blanks ) ( Queer meaning odd, strange. )

    Cheers 😀

  37. Not me, darl. Pretty low when someone uses a politician’s sexuality as a veiled attack!

    But then again…not really, as the standards here are slipping to the level of that other place.

  38. Oh dear, scaper, do tell us whose sexuality has been used as a means of attack? Meanwhile, you Lunar Right mob are the most sexist, homophobic prats on the planet. Thus it seems like classic projection to me!

  39. btw, nice to see another factless rant from factless troll. Unlike him, I can provide a litany of bad decisions & screw-ups that we had to tolerate during the Howard Years. The way they dealt with Pauline Hanson/One Nation (first encouraging them, then using underhanded methods to bring the down). The mishandling of the National Textiles debacle. The loss of at least a dozen ministers due to corruption/misuse of position (before the codes of conduct were abandoned). The use of the “debt truck” (only to ignore foreign debt in office, as it soared to record levels). The complaints about overspending on Government Advertising (only to go on to be the biggest spending government, on advertising, in Australian history). The whole “core vs non-core promise” nonsense. The illegal & costly war they got us involved in, on false evidence. The lies they told in the lead-up to the US Free Trade Agreement (Sugar was not going to be on the table, but then suddenly it was-to *our* detriment). The scandals surrounding AWB, Manildra & Howard’s Nuclear Energy policy. Need I go on?

  40. Marcus, Scaper is a bit of a paradox. I don’t think he hates Labor, in fact I think deep down he’s a bit of a lefty, but it’s just the PM he despises. I think he’d be a lot happier if Kevin Rudd was at the helm. Am I right, Scaper?

    But having said that, he comes across at times as belonging to the ‘right’ persuasion.

    He mixes with lefty haters, so must hide he true affections well.

    I know that he does support some of the issues pushed by the left, such as a cleaner environment and support for Indigenous Australians. Again, am I right Scaper?

  41. Crapper, if you bothered to read the whole comment you would see that I clarified it by giving the original meaning, for such idiots that have such a limited understanding of the language that they would automatically go to such a connotation.

    I personally don’t know and could not care less what his or anyone else’s bedroom preference is, as long as they don’t try to impose it on me, but by your reaction you show your own hand.
    But hey, whatever gets you through the night, cos we know that it isn’t truth, honesty or or integrity. 🙄 😛 🙄

  42. Iain, sorry to burst your bubble but the PM most definitely did not lie about imposing a price on carbon emissions. In fact you are perpetuating a lie by saying so.

    Her words wrt the carbon price are on the public record and you’d be very hard put to manufacture a case against her using that as your grounds. Another thing you already know but choose to ignore, like the Liars Party and their sycophants.

    I wonder that you’re not more concerned about Liealot and his slush fund Australians for (Dis)Honest Politics and whether he lied to the Parliament. He certainly lied to the AEC and the media and has been comprehensively nailed.

    scaper, as I said to Iain above, the Liars had better be careful about continuing to pursue the PM, because they could find their leader in hot water wrt his slush fund set up while he was a Minister of the Crown and it will be a lot easier to nail Liealot. All the evidence is on the record; no need to manufacture any shit.

    Perhaps the government should start asking Liealot to justify himself. Also Jooly Bishop and her propensity to choose conmen and thugs to share her bed with. And her lack of moral fibre wrt dragging out litigation until the plaintifs died. That must look good on her CV.

    WRT harm to the PM’s reputation, just reading the comments of the dingbats and their constant repetition of Liars Party lies, innuendo, smear and gossip should be proof enough.

    And did you actually read what Truth Seeker wrote @10.19am? “Queer as in odd or strange.” Hardly a definition of a gay person, i would have thought, more a definition of a dingbat, as in odd or strange behaviour in actually believing and repeating, ANYTHING spewing forth from Brandis, Bishop or the rest of the Liars Party.

  43. Hey Migsy, don’t consider myself left or right. I remember in the old days commenting on The Australian blogs and being called a lefty and a righty in reaction to a single post more than once. A classic!

    Hey, I have connections to other organisations which would be considered left, in pursuance of my vision. Been an environmental warrior since ’76. Was in the thick of the Traveston Dam issue and still talk to some Labor people to this day.

    Was chatting to Tom Switzer last night and a couple of LNP staffers butted in. Just smiled as couldn’t get a word in then when I got my chance they received a tongue lashing about the arrogance of the Newman government. Tom scarpered!

    I’d laugh if they had a whinge to John Roskam.

    Yes, I can’t stand Gillard and don’t believe she is worthy…a squatter in the Lodge. I believe it would be a different country now if Rudd wasn’t white anted by the agents provocateur but there is no going back. The damage has been truly done.

  44. Iain, that horse that you keep flogging has not only died, but decomposed to the point where only a few scattered bones remain, rattling when you try to flog it some more.

    no-one is listening.

    I do understand that the sandpit is a vacuous and lonely place, (much like the LNPs policy platform) but FFS at least try some new lines for us to laugh at, as the old ones are truly pathetic, and are now beneath even your limited capacity.

  45. Just a bit of jocularity as got a call this morning, been working on the railroad.

    Secured the interest of the back bone. Might smash the top off a St Henri ’01.

  46. TS
    Maybe the embarrassment that you Labor supporters feel at being obliged to defend Gillard makes you want to contend that the pony is dead but its still got legs as long as its being ridden by Julia Gillard 🙂

  47. Had a interesting talk with a stranger this morning, a elderly man that was sitting on the same seat.

    He made a comment about how stupid it is to smoke. Said if anyone vote against action to lower the instances of smoking, he would not vote for them. Made a comment that Ms,Roxon has done a good job. He laughed, yes Rooxon is the one. Joke that the is a good AG a well. Which he agreed with.

    The man went on to say, that he has voted Liberals all his life. He dais that he could not have envisaged voting Labit which he will be next time. He is a retired self employed electrician.

    He then said that the way they are treating the PM is shocking, He cannot understand why, Yes she had made a few mistakes, Who does not,
    His real dislike was for that other Julie, yes Bishop. No time for her whatever. Less for Abbott.

    I generally take with a pinch of salt when someone says they have voted Liberals all their life but. This time I believe what he is saying.

    I also have had enough life experiences, that one can bet, he is also talking among his own people.

    The point is, that one does not abuse a woman. Does not go down well with some. He also appeared to have some idea of where the economy is now Too fragile to have an opposition leader talk down.

    He saw Abbott as an idiot.

    By the way, this was a real conversation, not one from my imagination.

  48. I’m with Truth Seeker on that one. Providing the same doctored piece of crap as “evidence”, multiple times, won’t suddenly make it true. Still, if we’re going to talk about lies, then lets talk about Howard’s government (who you still seem to be so much in love with): Lets begin with that whole “non-core promise” thing-a BS term Howard invented to get around all the lies he told coming out of the 1996 election. Then there were all the lies about reducing government spending on advertising, reducing foreign debt & improving the ministerial code of conduct. Then there were the lies he told about the justification for going into Iraq, the lies he told about the Medicare Safety Net & WorkChoices, the “GST, never ever” pledge, his lies about full fee university degrees, his lies about AWB, his lies about Children Overboard, his lies about the Haneef & Habib scandals, his lies about what would & would not be included in a FTA with the US & his lies surrounding Manildra. Next to Abbott, I’d say this makes Howard the single-most dishonest Prime Minister we’ve ever had, yet people like yourself prostrate yourselves at his feet-almost proclaiming him a deity! Pathetic.

  49. Hall and the other right wing Trolls here are only to cognisant of the fact their predictions about Gillards demise all came to nought. Now that it looks like Gillard is going to take the fight up to the Lemon Abbott, and go from certain destruction to odds on to winning the next election. He and the other right wingers from the brains trust, are all getting desperate.

    You fired your load off a bit quick didn’t you Iain? Probably a bit like your sex life no doubt. All those predictions Iain, and here I was thinking you were an expert in everything. What will your ego do when the reality hits home we are going to have another Labor government.

    Yep, I can just imagine a couple of orderlies in white coats putting you in the back of a padded van. But you have probably been there before no doubt. Unlike others here who give you the benefit of the doubt, I really do believe you are barking bonkers..

  50. If “the pony still has legs” as you claim Iain, then why is Gillard now way ahead of your beloved Abbott as preferred PM? Why is her net dissatisfaction shrinking, whilst Abbott’s continues to grow & grow? Maybe its because they figured out that, compared to anything claimed by Howard or Abbott, Gillard’s misrepresentations are trivial by comparison. Yet still morons like yourself come here to defend these embarrassments. Go back to your troll-hole, Factless troll!

  51. By the way, jury’s are directed by the judge on points of law. Juries are not a law unto themselves.

    Juries must base the decision on what if presented to the court, not opinions from the general community.

  52. Iain, still no original thought, and your lack of comprehension is astounding, or you just chose to misread what doesn’t suit your own bias.
    but you just prove once again what an embarrassment you are!

    If you had any sense at all you would quit while you are behind….. but we all know you don’t have any sense.

    You must really enjoy being a laughing stock… Sad, very sad 😦 😦 😦

  53. BTW, Iain, where is this Carbon Tax? I see an emissions trading scheme, with a 3-year, fixed price period, but certainly no tax. After all, a tax can’t be traded to anyone, but ETS certificates can. Again, though, look at the constant lies told by Abbott & his loser gang. Hockey bleating about ending the “Age of Entitlement” in London, only to come back here & vociferously defend Howard’s legacy of unaffordable Middle Class Welfare. The lies of Abbott & Co about the impacts of the Carbon Price (which has actually had a much smaller effect on cost of living than the GST that they championed). Abbott’s lies about the electricity bill he tabled in parliament, & his connection to the person who sent it in. The lies of Bishop regarding her meetings with Blewitt & Ashby. Pyne & Brough’s lies about their meetings with Ashby. Again, that’s just the start. Yet you want to bleat on about a single comment, taken out of context, that even in its out of context form doesn’t prove that Gillard is a liar-well, except in the alternate universe inhabited by the Trolls of the Lunar Right!

  54. Bacchus, I do not see either Bishop or Abbott is believable witnesses. They also have to answer the questions put to them.. Running for the door, is not an option.

    Has Ms.. Bishop cleaned the mess up yet, that Mr. Abbott left behind in China.

    One needs to keep in mind, the new Chinese leader knows Australia well.

  55. There is no way Gillard will sue because all the dirty laundry will come out.

    And Gillard kept company with a con man. Lived with him knowing all along what Wilson was like.

    Gillard is a very poor judge.

  56. “Iain, that horse that you keep flogging has not only died, “

    May be the one he took to the poisoned water hole to drink out of.

  57. Why did O’Farrel line up beside her yesterday. Bet the private polls are saying, it is prudent to do so.

  58. There is one fact that even our visitors cannot dispute.

    That is that none of the dire predictions of the PM’s imminent downfall for the last two and half years have come to fruition. Not ONE,

  59. What money are you talking about????

    Surely you are not proposing that the country is broke. Are you denying, this is one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

    The PM has managed up top now, by rearranging priories. Also there has been the biggest budget consolidation in the nation’s history.

    What it is about, whether we care enough about our children’s and the nation’s history, whether we are willing to pay. Can we afford it. The answer to that is a clear yes. CAN WE AFFORD NOT TO DO IT. No we cannot.

  60. Wonder if anyone can tell me whose signature is one that Association document.

    PM has just announced that there is one crown in Australia. That is the latest legal advice. Talking about the royal family.

    That is an interesting announcement. Goes back to mining royalties. Will put the cat among the pigeons if proven correct.

  61. Iain, gave answers. Yes, the seed money has already been found.

    Yes it is simply a matter of options, of arranging priorities..

    Noticed you avoid my questions, asking do you believe this country is broke, bankrupted, or any other way you want to put it.

    Please tell me why we cannot afford it, or any other essential s spending.

  62. You seem to think, as Labor does that sufficient revenue fro the NDIS and Gonski et al can be plucked from the air CU. Now I know that Wayne swan is famous for his shonky accounting and dodgy forecasting but the schemes no matter how laudable are just going to fall over as elaborate pipe dreams so often do. People with disabilities would benefit more form simple changes to centerlink rules that allow them to earn more before they lose their benefits than this grand design from Gillard.

  63. “CU it was Labor who poisoned the waterhole, with bad faith ineptitude and lies”

    Again, Factless trolls makes a massive amount of assertions, without a shred of evidence to back his claims. I’ve given a long list of the “bad faith, ineptitude & lies” of the former Howard Government & the current Abbott Opposition (who seems to think that he shouldn’t have to face the electorate in order to form a government-what a good little tyrant he would make, just like his good mate NoCanDo). Yet Iain is either too lazy or too ignorant to even *try* to back his claims with evidence-I suspect both laziness & stupidity are to blame.

  64. “Now I know that Wayne swan is famous for his shonky accounting and dodgy forecasting”. Oh yet more factless BS from Factless troll. Put up evidence or shut the f**k up, you moronic little turd, ’cause I’m getting utterly sick of your frequently non-constructive contributions to this site. You want “shonky accounting”, then look no further than the so-called “audit” that was done on Abbott’s policy costings during the 2010 election. Oh, & his cornucopia of promises to the Independents to try & win their support. Of course, he took his cues from Costello, how only got his budget surplus by cutting funding for vital infrastructure (like cutting the federal share of health & education spending), selling off government assets & selling off the gold reserves at rock bottom prices. Then he sat back & let Howard piss the money up against the wall on wasteful middle class welfare!

  65. Noticed that the troll Hall is on his soap box again. He said this

    People with disabilities would benefit more form simple changes to centerlink rules that allow them to earn more before they lose their benefits

    He obviously does not know what the NDIS is and the benefits it is going to offer the people with disabilities. I suggest Hall goes to the website and do a bit of reading about the subject before commenting again on the Issue.

  66. Then he sat back & let Howard piss the money up against the wall on wasteful middle class welfare!

    Costello actually saved $50B in his last three budgets. While Costello did sell govt assets so did Keating. However unlike Keating, Mr Costello used revenue from asset sales to pay off govt debt. It was not used for recurrent expenses, unlike the sale of Qantas and the Commonwealth Bank. Keating used money from these sales for expenses and to make his budget deficits smaller.

    And speaking of ripping funding from health, Labor just closed down a Howard govt dental scheme to save money. They are promising a new dental scheme in 2014 but have no money for this scheme.

  67. Truth Seeker
    December 7, 2012 @ 10:19 am

    Ricky, absolutely

    🙂 🙂

    December 7, 2012 @ 1:46 pm

    Hey Migsy, don’t consider myself left or right

  68. Neil of Sydney
    December 7, 2012 @ 5:15 pm

    “Then he sat back & let Howard piss the money up against the wall on wasteful middle class welfare!”

    Costello actually saved $50B in his last three budgets. While Costello did sell govt assets so did Keating. However unlike Keating, Mr Costello used revenue from asset sales to pay off govt debt

    Yeah like Telstra for no net gain whatsoever. No we have had to buy back the copper Network we used to own to build the NBN…Oh that was pure unadulterated brilliance, what a genius. The idiocy of ideology over vision all comes from the Fiberals.

  69. Iain, are you deliberately misreading what I have said. I said nothing about thin air,

    I ask once again, is the country bankrupt. If not, why cannot money be found.

    This government has managed to pull back spending since coming into power.

    Believe it or not, there is more there to be found,

    It is a low taxing, spending government government, when one compares percentages of this government and others.

    No, it is a matter of PIORITIES. It is a matter of REARRANGING spending.

    It could even come from raising more taxes.

    Yes, believe it or not, that is what governments do, when the need arises.

    There is still plenty of upper class welfare, rebates and tax deductions to claw back.

    A budget is not a finite entity.

    It is possible that higher spending just might save money in the long run.

    Anyone out there have any pet dislikes, that they would like to see cut by the PM, to make room for the NDIS and Gonski.

    Maybe the baby bonus is a red rag to some. Maybe Medicare rebates grate. Super rebates. Yes, there is a very long list of probables available.

  70. “And speaking of ripping funding from health, Labor just closed down a Howard govt dental scheme to save money.”

    Hmmm, lets see, Labor shut down a scheme that was getting massively rorted-& was costing far, far more than Howard/Costello originally budgeted for. The scheme has been replaced with DentiCare, which is more equitable & less open to rorting. That’s a massive difference from cutting the Federal Share of Health Funding by around 10%-thus forcing the State Governments to make up the short fall

    “Costello actually saved $50B in his last three budgets.” I’d like to know where you get that figure from. The Private Health Insurance Rebate was already costing more than *double* the original budgeted cost-per year-& growing. Howard had also squandered large sums of money on the Baby Bonus, the First Home Owners Grant & the Childcare Rebate-all of which were growing in cost due to the failure to either (a) means test the rebate or (b) cap any of the schemes.

  71. (like cutting the federal share of health & education spending)”

    Glad you bought the topic up.

    LABOR has been accused of neglecting some of the poorest and most disadvantaged Australians suffering with bad teeth by closing down the Howard government’s chronic-disease dental scheme, which has served about 1.5 million battlers.

    In announcing a new means-tested scheme to begin in 2014, Health Minister Tanya Plibersek railed against the large cost blow-outs under the CDDS, which is pushing $1 billion a year. She said it was improperly targeted LABOR has been accused of neglecting some of the poorest and most disadvantaged Australians suffering with bad teeth by closing down the Howard government’s chronic-disease dental scheme, which has served about 1.5 million battlers.

    In announcing a new means-tested scheme to begin in 2014, Health Minister Tanya Plibersek railed against the large cost blow-outs under the CDDS, which is pushing $1 billion a year. She said it was improperly targeted and open to use by millionaires..”

    You notice Plibersek tells a little white lie (open to use by millionaires). The only reason they are cutting this scheme is to save money. Nothing to do with millionaires using the scheme or the scheme being rorted. If it was being rorted why not stop the rorts. Should be easy. Another LIE from Plibersek

  72. Neil, I think the truth is, that those people are being looked after. Yes, the states have been asked to pull their weight. I have an appointment next Tuesday NO problems.

    That scheme was heading for disaster, very inefficient, very narrow focussed with no means test. Yep, used more by those who could have managed their own dental needs.

    Same for private medical insurance. Unneccesary. Costly.

  73. Gillard not going to sue anyone at this stage, this will just keep this media beat up alive and kicking. Gillard is about policy and yes winning the next election. My only criticism of Gillard is, she took far to long to take the fight up to Abbott. She has wasted a lot of time. But take the fight up to Abbott and Bishop she has, and she’s got the fight in spades.

    Watching Abbott and Bishop perform at media stops of late is embarrassing, to think this gruesome twosome could be put in charge of Australia Incorporated beggars belief.

  74. Just a thought could that debt that Neil and Co worry about so much, be the results of cutting taxes that benefit the better off the most

    Could it be not raising in sufficient receipts, not excessive spending.

    Could it be because we are not willing to pay our way..

  75. It is funny reading the bleatings from right wingers on this blog on the many forms of social welfare. You really can’t believe what you are reading half the time. The fact is with out the progressives of the Labor party and within the union movement there would be no social welfare period. This is not idle gossip or ,but a cold hard fact.

    The conservative governments in this country have never once, not once, ever recommended a national pay rise for the lowest paid in the community.

    I can remember friends of mine doing time for a dentist bill not paid back in the sixties, you could lose your home over an unpaid medical bill.It was not unusual for debt collectors to visit you at work.

    The fact is social welfare in any form apart from business welfare is against the ideology of conservatives, that again is fact. That Tony Abbott agreed to any form of parental leave scheme is only because it was Labor party policy and he did not want to be seen in his true colours.

    Blaming the Labor party for any problems in social welfare is really hypocrisy in spades. When Howard gave away the baby bonus, he knew full well most of that loot would end up in the pockets of his business mates.stimulating the economy by stealth, and the right wing morons and some of ours, loved him for it.

    Here’s a hot flash for the conservative numb nuts on here, your mob had nothing to do with social welfare in it’s current form. It was fought for over a long period by people you think are liars and fools. Anytime a conservative has promoted social welfare, there would have been an ulterior motive.

    I bloody despair reading right wing diatribe.

  76. “Costello actually saved $50B in his last three budgets.” I’d like to know where you get that figure from.

    From the budget

    Costello’s last three budgets gave surpluses of $16B, $17B and $20B. Add them up and you get combined surplus of $53B. This money was used to pay off all the debt you retards created last time in power. Some was put into the Future Fund and some was put into Infrastructure funds.

    The amazing thing about the Howard/Costello govt is that they could fund everything at a reasonable level and still save money.

    Labor cannot even fund a Howard govt dental scheme without running a $40B deficit.

  77. Neil, what would you like to see Labor cut spending on.

    Nominate one area.

    Is it health? Is it pensions? Is it education? Is it roads?

    Let us in on what you think needs to be cut.

    Then we can begin to debate with you.

    I am not looking for a history message. That money is spent, has little to do with today.

    Maybe you can also tell us what taxes and other charges you would want cut as well. It is spending that I am more interested in.

  78. Yes, the voters gave Mr. Howard a massive win. Gave him control of both houses. Mr.. Howard abuse the privilege, The voters took both off him.

    That is the way it works.

  79. Plus lost his own seat to Maxine…

    It will be a VERY long time before the Libs get handed power in both Houses..thus goeth most of Abbott’s wind-back promises.

  80. Neil, what would you like to see Labor cut spending on.”

    Maybe there is no need to cut spending. Get rid of FWA and bring back Howard govt IR laws before Workchoices and unemployment would drop by 0.5%. This means less spending on the dole and lots of extra revenue due to people having a job and paying income tax.

    Bring back all the wonderful Howard govt programs that Labor ditched.

    Bring back all the Howard govt border control laws that Rudd abolished and boat people will stop coming. We have now spent $6B more since 2007 housing asylum seekers. There were 6 boat people in detention when Howard lost office. There is now 6,000. We are spending $1B/year more because of Labor Party lack of border control.

    Get rid of the Carbon Tax, Mining Tax. Get rid of Wayne Swan. The fact that this moron gets thousands of dollars in salary makes me sick. Bring back a Treasure who has his own ideas rather than one who just does what the Public Service says.

    Just get rid of the Labor Party

  81. Neil of Sydney
    December 7, 2012 @ 9:33 pm

    Bring back all the wonderful Howard govt programs that Labor ditched.

    His policies divided the country into class warfare, displaying absolutely no understanding of social equality or empathy toward anyone below 50k a year . The lies, the core promises, the illegal war, Work lack of choices and backward thinking was apparent when Bonzi (a little bush) was unceremoniously tossed from his own seat. His golden team from “an era of golden prosperity” as Abbott like to wax (I think he was hypnotized as it was more like golden showers for the working class) was smashed in a landslide. This is the guy so obsessed with a short term surplus vision, that he sold our national carrier for no net gain as he as a luddite had no vision of the digital economy

    Anyone that thinks Howard was a good Prime Miniature is a mentally defective Neocon Zombie.

  82. His policies divided the country into class warfare,”

    His policies reduced unemployment from 8% to 4%.

    It does not matter what a Conservative politician says or does. You will find something to complain about

  83. His policies reduced unemployment from 8% to 4%.

    Wrong. The global boom resulted in decrease of unemployment. A period of economic growth, world wide with levels not seen in a generation. Not unique to Australia and nothing to do with the Liberals. The domestic economy had already been primed to take maximum advantage of the boom by Labor’s economic reforms put in place before Howard even got into office.

  84. Howard was the only Treasurer in history to preside over the ‘Trifecta of Misery’:

    * double-digit unemployment
    * double-digit interest rates
    * and double-digit inflation

    … all at the same time!!

  85. Cuppa that economic boom, which started begain before Howard took power, was the longest sustained global boom in global history, not just a generation.

    Howard squandered it, something even Costello voiced.

    All economic indicators were on the improve when Howard took power as he stated in his first Press Club address, “I was handed a better economy by half than I thought possible.”

  86. Cuppa that economic boom, which started begain before Howard took power, was the longest sustained global boom in global history, not just a generation.”

    Too bad during this economic boom all the major powers were getting into debt. And back home all the State govts (all Labor) were also getting into debt.

    Only the Commonwealth was getting out of debt.

    Arguing with Labor supporters is useless. Any good economic data when a Coalition govt is in power is due to dumb luck. Any bad news when Labor is in power is due to world economic conditions.

    In all my life I have never met a people more full of hate than Labor Party supporters.

    Howard squandered it, something even Costello voiced.”

    Now your speaking for Costello. What the hell would you know what Costello thinks??

  87. I just think the whole package Gillard projects contradicts what the electorate wants to see in the Prime Minister.
    Poor policy and delivery, unbecoming behavior in Parliament, out of date socialist rhetoric, chip on shoulder class envy, un married, no kids, living with a bloke in the lodge, a history of carrying with married blokes. The AWU has been just wrong at every level. Her Ex on TV with his busted face and loser persona just reinforces the bogan history of Gillard.
    All of this just grates with the electorate. This is not what we want representing us.
    I think Gillard’s “Long game” strategy has worked against her. The more time the electorate has had to see her style the more they just don’t want it in the Lodge.
    Call me politically incorrect but that is the way a lot of people see it.

  88. My god what a dinosaur you are Tweed. I didn’t know that throw back attitude still existed. Anyway it won’t after another generation and if the conservatives, mainly white middle to older aged men, continue to hold onto the 50’s they will become extinct and rightly so.

    As to the other stuff you cite, as usual it’s just meaningless empty right wing rhetoric with no basis in fact and lots of projection. Nothing new there either, in fact there is never anything new with the conservatives, that’s their problem.

  89. Neil lot’s of projection in your post as well.

    I said “voiced”, not “think”. Do you ever bother to actually read what is posted or are you so ideologically blinded that you only read what you “think” is written not what is actually written?

  90. Mobius, and add to that several prominent politicians who choose to leave their partners residing in other cities while their current love interest is far handier when they come to Canberra.

  91. I didn’t know that Bishop bed hopped married men to get to the top. If so she failed because to get to the top Gillard also bed hopped married women.

  92. Tweed, not politically incorrect, just living in an age that is long gone.

    Even Princess Matgaret was known for her affairs back in that time.

    Tweed, look about you,many women, maybe a majority live similar lives.

    It is you that has the problem, not the PM.

    How does one carry boyfriends.

  93. scaper I did not think you could get any lower. You have managed to do so. This not the first time you have made this inference, but never so openly.

    Even if your inferences are true, there are also a large number of women who have made the same choice.

    It is not a crime, not even socially unacceptable anymore.

    Time to move into this century, as it is 2012.

  94. The original question was what would you like to see happen with the lies Bishop and Abbott have told? I will not be diverted by arguing with the trolls. I think a campaign by GetUp or similar asking the public to vote on it would make the wider public aware of the disgraceful conduct of these two.

  95. CU, obviously you do not have any respect for marriage. I do and your defence of Gillard proves that you are of loose morals. Don’t give the bullshit about moving into this century to divert from the fact that the thing in the lodge is a serial adulterer who has left a trail of broken marriages in her pursuit of power.

  96. No, scaper, you are correct. I do not have much respect for marriage. Many do not.

    Have seen too many bad marriages, where children suffered nothing but abuse.

    Those who do, I respect, for that is their choice.

    I do have respect for the commitment between couples. Yes, that can be as enduring, as marriage. Often more so.

    Yes, in spite of having these feelings that marriage was not necessary, I married. The worse days work I ever did.

    Had another, enduring relationship that last longer, without marriage. The death of my partner bought that to a close.

    How people live their lives is their own business.

    I am being faced with the prospects of marriage again. I do not see the need, but in respect for my future partner, I will have to consider marriage.

    It is the relationship and how one treats one another that counts. Marriage is not necessary.

    As I said scaper, you need to come into this century.

    Most live together for long periods on time before they marry.

    It has nothing to do with loose morals. Nothing to do with morals at all.

    Marriage does not stop people from having a bit on the side. It does not guarantee good relationships.

    As I said earlier, many women reading what you say, would be bursting their sides laughing, as they have had similar lives.

    You are insulting a hell of a lot of women, and I suspect men, as it takes two to tango.

  97. scaper, where is the evidence that the PM broke marriages, Be careful think before you answer that one.

    How can the PM be an adulteress, as she has never married.

    Does not the men involved, share any responsibility.

    How do you know there was a viable marriage to break.

    Why is it your business.,

  98. Neil of Sydney
    December 8, 2012 @ 8:50 pm

    “His policies divided the country into class warfare,”

    His policies reduced unemployment from 8% to 4%.

    Oh Fuchs that’s so funny, I have shit coming out of my nose, I’m laughing so loud…. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

    That would be by redefining people who work 2 hours a week as employed along with people “working for the dole”. Seriously NOS your so ridiculous its hilarious.

    OK I will give him one point for gun control as he was so shit scared he was going to get assassinated after work choices,children over board and his core and non core bullshit

  99. That would be by redefining people who work 2 hours a week as employed

    Don’t know how many times I have seen leftoids say Howard changed the way the unemployment rate was measured to make his govt look better.

    It is a load of crap and is a reason I never believe anything ALP supporters say.

    Your hatred of Howard is so great you tell lies about him.

  100. Neil is right on his statement that Howard didn’t change the way unemployment was counted. I have made this point for Neil several times.

    Howard used the international accepted method for counting unemployment, the same method used by previous governments and the current one.

    As to Neil’s other contentions and his generalisation, unadulaterated blind mindless ideological bias.

    But the fact this government got unemployment down during the a global financial crisis is very impressive. Howard did it during the longest period of sustained global economic growth in history, not so impressive.

    Also don’t forget the opposition’s GFC policy as they tabled it at the time was along the lines of those OECD countries that went into recessions and shed large numbers of jobs, all for just $4 billion less of a spend than the Rudd government’s very successful stimulus.

  101. Neil of Sydney
    December 9, 2012 @ 7:51 pm

    Your hatred of Howard is so great you tell lies about him.

    No your ;love of him blinds you to his abuse like a battered wife you keep defending him.
    Its OK Neil, he’s gone now pet, he cant hurt you anymore despite your denial.

  102. No your ;love of him blinds you to his abuse like a battered wife you keep defending him.”

    You got anything intelligent to say?? You really should apologise for this statement

    That would be by redefining people who work 2 hours a week as employed

    I cannot understand why you leftoids make so many factual errors.

  103. I cannot understand why you leftoids make so many factual errors.

    I cannot understand why facts don’t sink in to your head Neil. 😉

  104. Neil, I do not hate Mr. Howard or Mr. Abbott for that matter.

    I just have no respect for either man. In fact they are not worth wasting emotions on.

    Just do not agree with them in any way.

    What I so not understand is the hate you have for Ms.Gillard, along with other visitors to this site.

    Why the hate.

  105. Neil of Sydney
    DECEMBER 9, 2012 @ 9:56 PM

    You got anything intelligent to say??
    Yeah..fuck off you bullshitting factless troll

    You really should apologise for this statement
    Why are you feeling hurt? That Post Howard abuse syndrome kicked in?

    Sorry to have to tell you to fuck off you bullshitting factless troll

    You come into this blog like a monotonous flea in the ear of intelligent conversation promoting lies, propaganda and neocon rubbish and you want me to what?

    I’ll apologise to you when you vote green,or when John Howard apologises for fabrication of a lie to the Australian people over the “children Overboard” affair just before an election….., that’s’ fair.. :-).

    Nob of Sydney, Voyeur and Off his Treeman remind me of a treo of mormans who just keep knocking on your door “have you heard the word of our messiah John Howard today”….No fuck off he’s not the Messiah he’s just a former prime miniature.

  106. “Sorry to have to tell you to fuck off you bullshitting factless troll

    You really should apologise for this statement

    That would be by redefining people who work 2 hours a week as employed

    We went over this many years ago. The way unemployment is measured is the same in all OECD countries. This is so we can compare unemployment rates between countries.

    It is statements like this us why I do not trust anything ALP supporters say. You do not care about the truth. And you are all the same. Being truthful means nothing to ALP supporters. Furthermore you tell lies about Conservative politicians to smear them. Whether you tell the truth or not is immaterial.

    That is why I take no notice when an ALP supporter says John Howard lied about something. You do not care about politicians telling lies only if a Conservative politician (allegedly) tells lies.

    And you are all the same.

  107. Catching up
    DECEMBER 9, 2012 @ 9:03 AM
    Tweed, not politically incorrect, just living in an age that is long gone.

    CU. What I was saying in my comment a couple of days ago was not any criticism of anyones life choices it was more about cumulative bad choices by Gillard.

    I think the AWU scandal says a lot about Gillard. The AWU saga reflects her stint as PM, no attention to detail, no follow through with plans and implementation skills are abysmal.
    When you look at principles, respect and ethics you only have to look at how Gillard treated her partners at Gordon Slater, how she treated the paying customer – AWU .
    Look at the way she became PM, look at the way she has approached the job and it is clear the flaws at GS continue to flourish today.
    Look at her defense of Craig and the HSU debacle.
    Gillard’s “defense” of the AWU scandal is a mockery of legal process. Any bread and butter lawyer would know how to structure a defense. Fact, logic, truth. Imagine Gillard defending herself in a Court using bluster, stonewall and claims of “Smear, sleaze, misogyny” as a defense to the Judge. The Judge’s response would be simply … please answer the question Ms Gillard… Yes or No.
    Thank goodness we have the likes of Hedley Thomas. Even Larry Pickering, with all of his faults, is head and shoulders above some of the people who think of themselves as journos.
    I think Gillard just can’t project the street cred that the electorate expects to see in a person who holds one of the highest positions in our society. You wouldn’t feel comfortable being operated on by an erratic brain surgeon. You wouldn’t be comfortable putting your kids in a school with and erratic Headmistress.
    Howard was solid, consistent, effective, tough and a known quantity. The perception is Gillard is none of these.
    Sorry CU, that is just the way the punters are leaning.

  108. Neil, my understanding is that although there is a common method of ascertaining the unemployment rate, that the difference lies in what it is considered to be “employed”. In Australia the criteria was lowered to 20hrs pw.

  109. Care to flesh out that 20 hours a bit more Min? I can only find reference to International students (allowed to work no more than 20 hours) and immigration applicants, who must work at least 20 hours to have their visa approved…

    The ABS definition of employed and unemployed is the same – based on 1 hour per week…

  110. Tweed, if you say so, it must be correct, as you are the font of all knowledge.

    Then that must make me wrong.

    Yep, Tweed that is OK with me.

    Still, I will stick to my view, if you do not mind.

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