There isn’t any poverty on Mars

As a school kid I sat wide-eyed and excited as I watched Neil Armstrong take his first step on the moon. The excitement of the Apollo lunar landings continued for a few years, until the exorbitant monetary costs of putting a man on the moon could no longer be justified, particularly to a nation of Americans who were by now becoming critical of funding being pumped into lunar landings at the expense of social issues at home.

Nothing NASA had done since the moon landings triggered the same excitement until the recent landing on Mars by the Curiosity rover. And financially it was a steal, with the project costing ‘only’ US$2.5B. That’s $2,500,000,000.

It’s not a lot of money for a country whose defense budget this year is US$851B. That’s $851,000,000,000. As an aside, the defense budget in 2002 – after the 9/11 attacks – was a mere US$329B.

I’m not saying that the US doesn’t need a massive defense budget – far from it. They are, allegedly, guardians of the free world.

But back home who are they defending? These people:

The ranks of America’s poor are on track to climb to levels unseen in nearly half a century, erasing gains from the war on poverty in the 1960s amid a weak economy and fraying government safety net.

Census figures for 2011 will be released this fall in the critical weeks ahead of the November elections.

The Associated Press surveyed more than a dozen economists, think tanks, and academics, both nonpartisan and those with known liberal or conservative leanings, and found a broad consensus: The official poverty rate will rise from 15.1 percent in 2010, climbing as high as 15.7 percent. Several predicted a more modest gain, but even a 0.1 percentage point increase would put poverty at the highest level since 1965.

That equates to 47,100,000 people. If the Curiosity budget was given to those people they would have received $53 each. Not a lot, is it? But the poor get nothing in America.

Poverty levels are increasing as is the defense budget. And now they spend money sending a little machine to Mars.

Has anybody told them there isn’t any poverty on Mars?

Will there eventually be criticism from the American people against the cost of going to Mars, as there was to the Apollo missions four decades ago?

 

103 comments on “There isn’t any poverty on Mars

  1. Let’s hope there’s no criticism. You said it yourself, 2.5 billion is nothing compared to 850 billion. That 850 billion could easily be cut to 700 billion, and the US would still spend more than the top 9 military powers in the world.

    Also, projects like the Mars rover spurs innovation. Before the US space station, laser eye surgery was dangerous and difficult. When NASA scientists figured out the algorithms and engineering required to allow the space station and a space shuttle to dock, that technology carried over. The accuracy required to dock a space shuttle to the space station carried over into laser eye surgery. Now, pretty much anyone can get 20/20 vision with a little corrective surgery and there is very little risk.

    Americans spend more per year on Chap Stick than they do on NASA. Bringing up the poor is a non-sequitur.

  2. Liberty, I was using it as an example of how little it would really cost to help the poor.

    Don’t get me wrong – I loved the Mars landing and personally wouldn’t like to see NASA’s funding cut.

    I agree too that chunks could be cut out of defense.

  3. I love the pure science debate….. which may seem funny coming from a labourer, but I remember a few years back that a bloke was studing the way the leaves of the Mangrove trees in the Gulf of Carpentaria had a particular way of falling, they’d spin as they fall, this causing them to drill themselves into the sand as they hit, but not all of them, those that failed to drill in became fish food…….. Sand mining company was set to make about $20mill foiled because of this bit of ‘pure science’ …. and it saved the billion $$ fishing industry in the Gulf….. but hey what would them pesky scientists know… 😀

  4. Why can’t they send Tony Abbott to Mars instead?

    Mars isn’t far enough, Migs. Do you reckon we could send Prissy, Sloppy and Bishop, J to a planet far, far away as well? In another galaxy would be acceptable. 😆

  5. Jane,
    Can you imagine how bad any government would become with out there being an alternative waiting in the wings and pointing out their failings to the voters? Its the reason why even I hope that Labor are not totally wiped out at the next Poll.

  6. Jane, they already live on a planet far far away, the problem is that their bodies arses are still here

    😆

  7. Once again when we do not agree with some that visit the site, is because we do not understand, as we are stupid.

    Once again, some of the visitors that make these claims are arrogant and up themselves.

  8. Is this visitor so dense, that he does not realise he hands out personal insults everything he visits.

  9. Further CU when it comes to this current government I have met your challenge many times. But just to make things entirely clear what to you would constitute “facts”?

  10. NASA are a rort. Why, considering how much dolt has ‘corrected’ them to date over their climate science, I’m sure he coulda’ knocked up a rover for ’em for a fraction of that. And then gone there himself to prove to all these luddites that C02 is a harmless trace gas that could never be a ‘pollutant’.

    We need ideologues, not scientists, if we really want to cut costs in space travel, freeing up money for the poverty stricken weapons manufacturers.

  11. There is enough money in the world to send man to Mars, solve world hunger, cure the common cold… and every other positive venture man has dreamed of.

    The only thing retarding progress is conservatism. Conservatism seeks to concentrate the planet’s wealth in the hands of ever fewer. Making unlikely the prospect of grand collective ventures. It works to dumb down the population, ensuring we’ll never collectively have the smarts or ambition to tackle the big issues. And it engenders a fear of the future, a longing for the past that, again, makes it difficult to move forward.

    Conservatism is a crippling influence, a handicap on progress.

  12. It works to dumb down the population

    A quick scan of the papers today indicate that journalists at least have succumbed to this 😦

    “Gillard refuses to answer allegations, even though we haven’t actually made any yet”

    muppets.

  13. While there have been many innovations coming from NASA’s space program, and I am thinking of the kidney dialysis machine by way of example, I believe that the US is on downward spiral due to the fact that it is losing or has indeed lost its democratic origins. What has happened to the land of opportunity?

  14. @ Iain. I’ve followed your postings very closely, & I’ve yet to see you meet the twin challenges of either proving this government is bad, or proving that the current opposition is a good alternative. All you’ve provided is the same old propaganda. By contrast, we’ve provided you with ample evidence of why this current Opposition would be *very* bad for the nation-based on past experience (Stagflation, National Textiles, AWB, Iraq War etc etc), current Federal experience (Abbott’s closeness to Jackson & Lawle; Brough, Pyne’s & Bishop’s closeness to Ashby; the self-confessed $70 billion black hole etc etc), & current State experiences (NoCanDo pumping tens of millions of dollars into the horse racing industry, whilst cutting funding for a number of critical health & education services).

  15. hope you’re simply being ironic.

    With today’s headlines Marcus, I don’t really see any other option.

    Yes, I was being entirely ironic (perhaps not precisely the correct word either)

  16. Marcus, sadly the troll cannot provide any of the information that you seek , as it does not exist, except in the sadly deluded minds of the radical right, and following his postings closely (BLAH BLAH BLAH) is like hitting your head against a brick wall, it feels good when you stop.
    I applaud your efforts and tenacity, but the truth is ,,,he’s got nothin’.

    Cheers 😆 🙄 😆

  17. Cuppa and,

    There is enough money in the world to send man to Mars, solve world hunger, cure the common cold… and every other positive venture man has dreamed of.

    Yet in the US a majority of people struggle to be able to afford basic health care. There is a bit of a history to this, once a job with for example the Henry Ford Corporation meant that all needs were take care of. Philanthropy was a tradition. Basically I think, it’s that people just became greedy and far less willing to share in the results of their wealth creation.

  18. That is exactly the road that the Libs would have us head down. Bare bones services for the lower classes while the wealthy take the cream, yet the Liberals accuse Labor of class warfare. Ah the irony.

  19. That is exactly the road that the Libs would have us head down. Bare bones services for the lower classes while the wealthy take the cream, yet the Liberals accuse Labor of class warfare. Ah the irony.

    Right-Wing Projection: The Right accusing their opponents of what they (Right) are guilty of themselves.

  20. Who would believe it. Not me, for one.

    JULIA Gillard has conceded asylum-seekers could be held on Nauru and Manus islands for years in a “tough policy” that has drawn criticism from the architect of the original Pacific Solution, Alexander Downer.

    With the government vowing to keep asylum-seekers on Nauru for as long as it would have taken for them to be processed in comparable refugee camps elsewhere, Mr Downer declared yesterday that he was “uncomfortable” at the prospect of indefinite detention on Nauru.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/alexander-downer-worried-about-island-imprisonment/story-fn9hm1gu-1226453701854

  21. After reading this post an American friend said:

    If the military budget were cut by 50% we could face and eliminate the debilitating issues that cripple us as a civilized nation. Our priorities are upside down and backwards and until we set them straight, we will continue to spiral downward as a culture. There are two kinds of people in the world, service-to-self and service-to-others. S-t-s have been in the driver’s seat for far too long. It’s time for my country to come together as a community and take care of everyone’s needs.

    I think she summed up what I was trying to say.

  22. America only rushed to the moon to beat the Russians. There’s no race anymore. There’s no political motive behind space exploration.

    It’s time to move aside and let the private enterprises take over. Companies like Brigalow are ready to invest billions of their own money into space exploration. Governments should only focus on domestic issues where the money is desperately needed.

    Can you imagine the uproar in Australia if the Gillard Government announced they were going to spend $2.5B sending a dune buggy to Mars?

  23. Heck, they reckon that, if you taxed the church alone, you’d raise enough money for around 20 Discovery Missions-let alone the money you could raise by simply cutting defense budgets by a measly 5% (which could actually be achieved simply by removing a lot of the gross waste & inefficiency-especially in the US Military).

  24. Marcus @ 9:33 am

    @ Iain. I’ve followed your postings very closely, & I’ve yet to see you meet the twin challenges of either proving this government is bad, or proving that the current opposition is a good alternative.

    Marcus the simple fact of the matter is that, even the most extensively researched report outlining all of thsi government’s shortcomings would not come up to the ridiculously high standard of proof demanded when it comes to thsi government’s vices or for that matter the outrageously low standard of proof that you accept when it come to any criticism levelled at the opposition.

    All you’ve provided is the same old propaganda. By contrast, we’ve provided you with ample evidence of why this current Opposition would be *very* bad for the nation-based on past experience (Stagflation, National Textiles, AWB, Iraq War etc etc), current Federal experience (Abbott’s closeness to Jackson & Lawle; Brough, Pyne’s & Bishop’s closeness to Ashby; the self-confessed $70 billion black hole etc etc), & current State experiences (NoCanDo pumping tens of millions of dollars into the horse racing industry, whilst cutting funding for a number of critical health & education services).

    Yada yada yada 🙄

    You would not last five minutes if you were required to expect the same standards from both sides of politics when it comes to judging their words and deeds.

    Skeptical @ 9:43 am

    Marcus, sadly the troll cannot provide any of the information that you seek , as it does not exist, except in the sadly deluded minds of the radical right, and following his postings closely (BLAH BLAH BLAH) is like hitting your head against a brick wall, it feels good when you stop.
    I applaud your efforts and tenacity, but the truth is ,,,he’s got nothin’.

    Well I have the most delicious expectation that Labor will be trounced at the next election and Labor will be consigned to the wilderness for a decade at least where as you “true believers” have nothing except the prospect of enduring despair.
    👿 👿 👿 👿 👿 👿

    Cheers 😆 🙄 😆

  25. So, if Downer is so opposed to indefinite detention-then why didn’t he protest against these policies when he was a minister?

  26. “You would not last five minutes if you were required to expect the same standards from both sides of politics when it comes to judging their words and deeds.”

    Oh what a complete load of codswallop, Iain. As always, you’re simply guilty of projection. We’ve asked you for evidence, you provide us with NONE-yet when we provide you with *our* evidence, you claim we don’t expect the same standards from both sides of politics-when its actually *you* who is guilty of that. You’ll forgive your beloved Abbott of any sin-no matter how grave-yet lambast the leaders of other political parties for the most trivial things. I am actually angry at this government about a lot of things-not least the pandering to racist fear mongering in relation to boat arrivals-but I still rank them as a better party than the mob of incompetents who inhabit the Opposition Benches-yet whose incompetence you simply dismiss with a trite “yada, yada, yada”. If you can’t handle the *facts*, Iain, then why don’t you simply P.O back to the cave inhabited by you & your mates-Scaper & Tweed?

  27. “Well I have the most delicious expectation that Labor will be trounced at the next election and Labor will be consigned to the wilderness for a decade at least”. Yeah, you keep on dreaming Iain. The tide has already started to turn against your beloved Fiberals. Almost 2 months along & the Carbon Price has had *nowhere* the impact on cost of living that Abbott & his clowns predicted (& I believe Whyalla is still standing too). Abbott will effectively lose his favourite topic-boat arrivals-& the press are increasingly asking him the *hard* questions, & refusing to treat him with kid gloves like they used to-& he’s not handling it very well *at all*. The only real question is-will Abbott still be Opposition Leader at the end of this year?

  28. Migs @11.34am and,

    If the military budget were cut by 50% we could face and eliminate the debilitating issues that cripple us as a civilized nation.

    It’s all false economy isn’t it. Imagine if what your American friend suggested came into being. It is acknowledged that the defence industry in the US is a major job creator, but if that same money was put into health then instead of people languishing in ill-health due to lack of basic care, those same people would be able to work, become consumers and assist with America’s financial recovery.

  29. Min, you are spot on, if the arms industry was cut in any manner, the USA economy would collapse.

  30. Marcus @ 12:54 pm

    “You would not last five minutes if you were required to expect the same standards from both sides of politics when it comes to judging their words and deeds.”

    Oh what a complete load of codswallop, Iain. As always, you’re simply guilty of projection. We’ve asked you for evidence, you provide us with NONE-yet when we provide you with *our* evidence, you claim we don’t expect the same standards from both sides of politics-when its actually *you* who is guilty of that.

    Not at all Marcus take for example Julia Gillard’s infamous “there will be No carbon tax under a government I lead” promise that has been so vociferously defended and excused by many of those here. Have they accepted the same sort of logic when it comes to things said by Tony Abbott? Not for a nano second has the crew here accepted the argument that a position taken by Tony Abbott is at all mutable in the light of different circumstances in the present or the future. Its a blatant double standard and hypocrisy.

    You’ll forgive your beloved Abbott of any sin-no matter how grave-yet lambast the leaders of other political parties for the most trivial things.

    If I turn that around I could very aptly say the same about you and most of the extremists here who feel so threatened by any contrary opinions:

    You’ll forgive your beloved Gillard of any sin-no matter how grave-yet lambast the leaders of other political parties for the most trivial things.

    I am actually angry at this government about a lot of things-not least the pandering to racist fear mongering in relation to boat arrivals-but I still rank them as a better party than the mob of incompetents who inhabit the Opposition Benches-yet whose incompetence you simply dismiss with a trite “yada, yada, yada”. If you can’t handle the *facts*, Iain, then why don’t you simply P.O back to the cave inhabited by you & your mates-Scaper & Tweed?

    If what you presented me were actaully facts Marcus then I might be suitably chastened by your comment Marcus, however as all you gave as a grab bag of leftist talking points and then some unnecessary abuse. Is it any wonde I am dismissive of your “ah Hem” “arguments”
    Marcus @ 12:58 pm

    “Well I have the most delicious expectation that Labor will be trounced at the next election and Labor will be consigned to the wilderness for a decade at least”. Yeah, you keep on dreaming Iain. The tide has already started to turn against your beloved Fiberals.

    A dead cat bounce in the polls won’t be the herald of a Labor revival they have lost the trust and the ear of the people and its going to take a lot more than wishing and hoping from you and yoru fellow true belivers to save the aprty

    Almost 2 months along & the Carbon Price has had *nowhere* the impact on cost of living that Abbott & his clowns predicted (& I believe Whyalla is still standing too).

    It does not have to have an actual and directly attributable effect Marcus, the people only have to feel that it has a negative impact for Labor to suffer

    Abbott will effectively lose his favourite topic-boat arrivals-& the press are increasingly asking him the *hard* questions, & refusing to treat him with kid gloves like they used to-& he’s not handling it very well *at all*. The only real question is-will Abbott still be Opposition Leader at the end of this year?

    No the question is will Gillard lead Labor to the next Poll.

  31. Cu, the real problem is how the Americans are funding their defense costs. I hear that they’ve been borrowing $1B a day from China and Japan to fund their presence in Iraq. Look at their economy now.

  32. It is many years since I studied this topic at uni, but I suspect nothing much has changed, It is an economy based on catering to war.

    I am enjoying watching Mr. Abbott run rings around the PM in QT. Not too sure that Abbott feels that is so.

    It has definitely been a day for the PM. Abbott blew it at the Independent School Principals. Now asking once again about carbon tax.

    The PM is wiping the floor with him, if any are interested.

    Was not today, to be about a seventeen year old rumour.

  33. The Health Services Union’s (HSU) biggest branch will split into its original three branches, ahead of fresh elections held in September.

    Union branch administrator and former judge Michael Moore told members in a newsletter published on Monday the HSU East branch would be split into its original parts – the NSW, Victoria No.1 and Victoria No.3 branches.

    The move, effective on Tuesday, follows a Federal Court decision to put the branch into administration, in the wake of a Fair Work Australia report that found members’ funds had been misused for several years.

    Mr Moore said elections would not be called until 10 days after the demerger.

    The election process, expected to take about three weeks, would be run by the Australian Electoral Commission under new rules.

    Mr Moore said anyone thinking of being a candidate or ‘simply being actively involved in the political process’ would need to carefully consider the new rules.

    The union has been the subject of fierce factional rivalry for many years

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/08/20/HSU_elections_due_in_September_785751.html

  34. Cu, your interpretation of question time is always so very much appreciated and it certainly goes some way to providing a balance, compared with the blah which one reads in the newspapers.

  35. Min, maybe I am bias, but I would have to be considerably so to see things other ways.

    Pyne with his whine, has just accuse the PM of changing the question, just like Petersen., that notorious Queensland Premier. In fact the whine was near tears.

  36. Cu, for any who might read any bias whatsoever..so what..it’s your opinion of which you are duly entitled. So nyah to any critics..of which there are extremely few and whose opinions are far more biased than your own.

  37. Ask to withdraw without comment. Could not help himself as the speaker said. Has been warn all the afternoon for making comments across the table. Albanese demanded that he withdraw. No idea what was said.

    The older Ms Bishop also went close.

    At least no stunt today.

  38. Pyne, Dutton and Hockey went before,

    It appears that Abbott said earlier that there was no injustice to public schools. If anything it went the other way.

    Will try to get that speech. It was a shocker. I have put the PM’s up somewhere.

    When was the last time a Opposition leader being thrown out. No one seems to know.

    The deputy speaker has been warning him since this session began. it was only a matter of time.

  39. 94A is the rule that they have to leave the chamber for one hour. They can be sent out for longer if named, but that needs a vote of the house.

  40. No, he went with his head down. I think he might have been in shock. Do not know why, as the Deputy Speaker. has been giving plenty of warnings, including one that she seen his behaviour as obnoxious last week.

    Pyne generally jumps up and complains. The trouble is that all these people had already been given their marching orders.

    Maybe it is the speakers plan to head off the stunts of MSSO’s we get each day. (Sarcastic)

  41. Was not today to be the death knell of the PM. Bolt and co have been proven so wrong. They have let scaper down.

  42. Liberals are touting Abbott being booted out for trashing parliament and being disrespectful as a badge of honour.

    They really are a base lot of cretins, no doubt about it.

  43. Did Pyne leave it open for him?

    It would have been the courteous thing to do. But then again, he never has been known to exhibit any courtesy.

    I can’t imagine he’d be the type of fellow to thank the waitress for bringing his meal.

  44. I love the Deputy Speaker’s statement to Abbott,

    You just couldn’t help yourself could you.

    The answer is no he can’t, a complete lack of self-discipline on the part of Tony Abbott.

  45. Tom R @7.42am, we could sabotage the space ship so he couldn’t get back to earth and would be left to the mercy of Migs’s alter ego.

    “Gillard refuses to answer allegations, even though we haven’t actually made any yet” roflmao, Tom R.

    I am enjoying watching Mr. Abbott run rings around the PM in QT

    Don’t tell me he still hasn’t found his way out of the Chamber, CU?

    Min, do you know if Liealot found the door? He seems to have a spot of bother with that. 😆

  46. Mobius and,

    Liberals are touting Abbott being booted out for trashing parliament and being disrespectful as a badge of honour.

    That unfortunately surprises me not one little bit.

  47. It is OK for Abbott to say what he likes.

    But Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says it’s a political fix.

    ‘(Ms Gillard will) write cheque after cheque after cheque, because she knows she will probably never have to cash it,’ he told reporters in Canberra.

    ‘This is a desperate government that will make any promise that it think it needs to get itself through the day.’

    Mr Abbott said unless the government was prepared to release its own funding model showing where the extra billions would come from, Australian parents would know their schools were not safe.

    Ms Gillard told the forum the government’s plan will use school funding to drive improvement in school performance.

    The bottom line was that there should be government support ‘to educate every Australian child – in the poorest and most remote school, at the best known and best resourced school’.

    ‘That’s why our funding model will recognise the diversity and uniqueness of Australian schools and will support the choices parents make about the best school for their child,’ the prime minister said.

    The Australian Education Union (AEU) marked six months since the Gonski review’s public release by placing a ‘sea of hands’ on the lawn outside Parliament House.

    The cardboard hands carry the names of all 6700 public schools and are signed by school principals, parents and …………….

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/08/20/School_funding_promise_desperate-_O

    ppn_785694.html

  48. Ch 10 seem to support what the PM is saying. No injustice to public schools, in fact it is the other way

    Do not forget that Pyne did not accept that there was any inequity it the system.

    The PM is clever in backing off giving there reaction the report for a little longer. GIving him a little extra rope.

  49. erm, that’s “defence” not “defense” … petty I know … but I, for one, do not want my country to become the 51st state of the USA … drip by drip etc … I just turn off the tap where I can … 🙂

    Anyway where did the money go … the Mars landing was a hoax just like the Moon landings ..

  50. TB, if the Moon landings were a hoax then why haven’t they kept on with their hoaxing? Why haven’t they ‘hoaxed’ a landing in 40 years?

  51. Why haven’t they ‘hoaxed’ a landing in 40 years?

    Because the technology in ordinary peoples’ hands has gotten way better and is as good as the technology used to produce the hoaxes. Every image and frame of video is analysed to each and every pixel and to all the data that’s embedded in them to within a yockto by millions of nerds in their bedrooms and millions of wanna be scientists in their dens.

  52. The hoax is the “deficit”. Those with an understanding of modern monetary systems would know that a greatly increased deficit is the “medicine”, not the “poison”.

    The plight of the poor in the US is tied to the deficit obsession. This is the triumph of orthodox economics, and it is total bullshit.

    J.K.Galbraith, who knew a thing or two, was well aware that the interests of the rentier class and privilege are well served by downturns.

  53. Min @4.47pm, I was thinking he could be locked out. then Prissy, Julie, Bronnie and the other usual suspects could be sent out to look for him. 😀

  54. “MJ, it’s good to see you find some positives in an eleven trillion dollar deficit.”

    In a 15 trillion GDP economy Migs it’s neither here nor there. It’s almost a meaningless number.

    It’s only a convention, a hang-over from a by-gone gold standard era, with no operational imperatives, that the govt issues bonds to cover the shortfall (spending minus tax receipts).

    And the govt will cover the interest and redemptions on those bonds with new issues which the people will buy with the money the govt gives them, as they have been doing for the last 200 years.

    But while ever special interests have us shit-scared of the big bad deficit, govt is effectively restrained from embarking on any kind of stimulus spending that, god forbid, might give the downtrodden a leg-up.

    Somehow, however, deficits don’t matter in times of war. I think the US deficit back in 1942 was 250% of GDP which would equate to nearly 40 trillion in today’s dollars.

    Those were more enlightened times when only an idiot would have dared suggest a dose of austerity to “pay off the debt”. And the next 3 decades were a golden age of full employment and growing prosperity.

  55. Thanks for that link ME…those graphs really spell it out.

    It’s interesting to see that when wages got a bigger share of the pie (before 1975), actual employment was lower. But in those days the participation rate was lower and “Beaver’s” Mom didn’t have go to work to make ends meet.

    As wages as a share of GDP have shrunk, households have made up the shortfall with debt.

    In the long run of course increased profits at the expense of wages will bite business on the bum because, as Ian Verrender wrote in last Saturday’s SMH, workers are also consumers.

  56. Mangrove and “Mom didn’t have to go to work to make ends meet”. I would probably get shot down in flames by some feminists but I do not believe that there should be any parental leave for women who do not need it.

  57. Min, at least they should get no more than the lower paid.

    I do not think the taxpayer has a duty to keep them in the luxury they have become accustom to.

  58. Mangrove, I can move fast when the occasion arises. 😉

    Cu, perhaps that the solution. Means tested and a base rate irrespective of employment salary. Some very wealthy women may not even bother applying. It’s purely false economy to pay wealthy women to stay home and mind their own babies when it’s at the expenses of poorer women who via a helping hand, are able to raise the income standing of their household up to that of a normal income. A friend of mine who works in child care sees this all of the time, women who put their young children into child care for several days a week so that they can play tennis and have outings with friends.

  59. I do not think the taxpayer has a duty to keep them in the luxury they have become accustom to.

    I cannot believe that we even have debates over this.

    It is remarkable that tabot and co can argue this, while at the same time declare that public schools are ‘doing alright’, and that the NDIS might need to wait for ‘better times’

    It really seems bizarre to me.

  60. “child care for several days a week so that they can play tennis and have outings with friends.”

    Min. I fear these days are long gone. Women, I believe work for many more reasons than they have to. They work because they need to, for their own pride and well being. For their own careers, which they also value.

    There is more to a modern woman’s life than being a wife, then mother and nothing else.

  61. child care for several days a week so that they can play tennis and have outings with friends

    Min. I fear these days are long gone

    No CU – there are people doing this today as we “speak.” Daughter works in child-care in a more affluent suburb in Brisbane – and it’s not always Mum dropping the kids off so they can have some free time 😉

  62. And on the other side of the coin, an aquaintance of daughter’s has a four year old who she sends to child care 1 or 2 days a week. Why? Simply so she can have some kid-free time. This woman hasn’t held a full-time job since leaving school, and is currently on a supporting mother’s benefit + some payment from the father of the child…

  63. Bacchus, that could be classed as just plain sanity time.

    I cannot imagine that there are too many women who return to work when the baby is only months old would do so other than for financial reasons. Putting on my ed/psych hat for a moment, there are many reasons why a child should not be put into child care until around 18 months of age and it’s all to do with language development and social skills. I respect those women who believe that they should have and indeed need to have a career but the ed/psych part of me believes that if you have decided to have a child, then that child should be a priority for at least the first couple of years of his or her life.

    Many women in lower paid households cannot afford quality child care, hence the reason for many “backyarders”..other women taking cash in hand. Some of these are excellent and a friend of mine did this for many years taking up to 8 children and babies at a time, however some of them I would dread to think about the standard of care provided.

  64. So we have private schools anymore, as they all defend on government subsidies.

    That was said on ABC 24 Breakfast.

  65. Bacchus, that will run out when the child is older. Just hope she does not have another to solve the problem.

    There is a silver lining to this problem. The child often benefits for being away from such a parent.

    Childcare was a useful tool in keeping kids safe in dysfunctional families.

    As bad a a parent might be, removing them in most cases is a worse option

    Kids love the parent, no matter how bad the parent.

    A four year old does need some pre-school experiences.

  66. Need to find Hunt’s ridiculous interview on climate change this morning ABC24. Was asked how the carbon tax would increased carbon emissons.

  67. More of an incendiary intervention, designed to provoke.
    Health Minister Tanya Plibersek took herself off to the ABC24 studio in Canberra a little while ago to make some remarks about the conduct of the House of Representatives yesterday.
    (Those with us yesterday will recall that Mr Abbott found himself booted from the chamber for suggesting Ms Gillard was telling lies.)
    Ms Plibersek says Mr Abbott has trouble taking orders from a woman.
    I think what was surprising about yesterday, it is very unusual to have a leader of the Opposition thrown out.
    You only really have to look at the photo that was in The Sydney Morning Herald to see just how angry the leader of the Opposition was.
    I think most people with see Deputy Speaker Anna Burke is just doing her job and requiring the leader of the Opposition to withdraw an unparliamentary comment; but the response she got shows very plainly that Mr Abbott is not used to taking orders from a woman I think.

    Lest you conclude this remark a bit of punditry off the cuff, Ms Plibersek continues to ensure her point is on the record:
    He got thrown out because he refused to withdraw in an unqualified made a remark me made that was unparliamentary.
    He’s been constantly offering advice to the Deputy Speaker and he’s been sledging the Prime Minister across the table.
    I think he finds it difficult he’s dealing with two women in positions of authority and particularly the Deputy Speaker telling him what do went down like a led balloon and you only have to look at the photo in the Herald to see that.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/politics-live-august-21-2012-20120821-24ja6.html#ixzz248v8sXZd

  68. In fact it is not just a so call carbon tax. It is a cost on carbon emissions.

    The money is to be used in assisting in putting new technology in place.

    . It is the GEF, which also involves many other actions being taken.

    The money is to be used, to help against the cost to consumers.

    The aim is to move from energy produced by coal and fossil fuel, to power produced from renewals.

    It will also needed for the research and introduction of new technology, for the production of such things as aluminium and steel with less energy.

    It is called a clean energy future.

    It is about finding cleaner and smarter ways of doing things.

  69. Min – the youngest at daughter’s centre start at 6 weeks old.
    Daughter has the toddlers 15 – 30 months => nappies, toilet training, accidents – all the good stuff. The director mentioned to daughter the other week that in the 5 years the centre had been operating, emergency services had been called 4 times – all to the toddlers’ room 🙂 (disclaimer: two of those times were for staff members 😆 )

    * grrr * @ Migs @ 10:59 am :mrgreen:

    lol @ Min @ 11:08 am

    CU,

    I agree with everything you said @ 11:41 am.

  70. Bacchus, and yet child care workers are among the poorest paid of all the professions..seems unfair when they’re in charge of such precious cargo.

    Six weeks is far too young, mum and bub have hardly bonded. I’ve known of mums whose toddlers screams blue murder when separated from their child care person as after all she is the one who spends the most of the child’s “alert hours” with the child. A friend had to wake her toddler up, cranky of course from being woken and when she picked her up, the child was again cranky from being tired at the end of the day. It seemed that except on weekends there was very little time for parent and child interaction.

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