Policies on the run

There’s no doubt about the Abbott Opposition: they are all over the shop when it comes to policy-making. Policies are written either on the run or on the back of an envelope.

Take their latest thought bubble.

In a discussion paper released today the Coalition proposes the sale of farmland and agribusinesses be examined particularly closely, suggesting the Foreign Investment Review Board scrutinise all foreign acquisitions of agricultural land valued at over $15 million. The current threshold is $244 million.

As an aside, the wording in the ‘supportive’ Murdoch media is a bit misleading. See if you can spot the difference.

. . . the release of a Coalition discussion paper that suggests slashing the foreign investment threshold to $53 million from $244 million for offshore buyers wanting to acquire agricultural assets.

Maybe the Murdoch media needed to leave out a ‘minor’ detail in order to sell the proposal, which, incidentally, will save the country from the great ruin the Gillard Government has deviously planned for us. Please try not to laugh at this from the above link:

South Australia’s food supplies will be increasingly at risk unless Julia Gillard adopts the Opposition’s new measures on the sale of farms to foreign investors, farmers warn.

Yes, the sky is still going to fall in.

Yet most people think the sky is going to fall in on this proposal. Take, for example, the views of David Farley, the chief executive of Australian Agricultural Company:

“The Coalition partners, the Nationals, should actually study agriculture a bit more closely and understand what is needed to develop the industry in Australia.

“I am concerned that it is shouting out a xenophobic view rather than an informed view about what is best for the local industry,” Mr Farley said.

Mr Farley said there were was “plenty” of capital available to invest in Australian Agriculture, both through the trillion dollar domestic superannuation system and foreign investors.

“There are already enough hurdles to agricultural development in Australia, why put further barriers in place?

“If the pathways for Australian capital into agriculture are not attractive enough we definitely need to make sure that it is for international investors.”

Mr Farley said that as a major agricultural producer Australia had “big job to do’ over the next 20 years to meet the food needs of a global population tipped to reach nine billion people.

It does appear to be policy on the run. Populist policy it so appears. Just another thought bubble policy. A policy so bad that not even Joe Hockey could defend it, let alone explain it.

As at 2010 foreign ownership of agricultural land in Australia was a mere 6 per cent. If the Gillard Government don’t do anything about this then the good folk of South Australia will suffer from the affects of malnutrition and possibly scurvy. Last month only Whyalla was at risk. Now it’s the whole state. The people should leave now. Get out while you can!

Now here is something to consider: The Coalition have been predicting that the Mining Resources Tax (MRT) would deter foreign investment in Australia? And isn’t it a surprise to learn that the mining industry in Australia is 83 per cent foreign owned.

What isn’t surprising is the Opposition’s hypocrisy.

On the run they are producing policies that are promoted with the prediction that the country will be ruined if foreign ownership isn’t controlled, yet they oppose Government policies that they predict – unfounded – that will deter foreign ownership.

This latest policy, as the above links show (with the exception of the Murdoch sources), is a dud. Hypocrites and policies don’t marry up too well.

What more can I say?

142 comments on “Policies on the run

  1. The National Party tail wagging the Liberal Party dog.

    A Coalition plan for more scrutiny of foreign ownership of Australian agriculture has been condemned by the government and former Howard government minister Peter Reith, who has accused Tony Abbott of pandering to populism.
    The policy paper, released by the Opposition Leader today, proposes that Australian regulators run the ruler over any foreign acquisition of agricultural land valued at $15 million or more. The current trigger is $244 million. More agribusiness transactions would also be in the Foreign Investment Review Board spotlight.
    Mr Abbott has said that the public needs to have confidence investment is in the national interest, while insisting that the Coalition unambiguously supports foreign investment.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/government-reith-condemn-abbott-farm-plan-20120803-23jh8.html#ixzz22V6DDR36

  2. This morning on Twitter Mr Reith posted: “Pandering to populism is contrary to public interest.”
    Acting Prime Minister Wayne Swan said the Coalition were “all over the shop” with their foreign investment plan and that the government already had a strong set of national interest guidelines.
    “It’s a dog’s breakfast,” Mr Swan told reporters in Adelaide, pointing to shadow treasurer Joe Hockey’s recent statement that he did not see the need for “dramatic changes” to foreign investment rules.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/government-reith-condemn-abbott-farm-plan-20120803-23jh8.html#ixzz22V7lzIb3

  3. The Hon Dr Craig Emerson MP Australian Minister for Trade and Competitiveness
    on abc24

    GRIMM: Okay. You’ve accused the Coalition of misinforming the public, and of acting irresponsibly. That’s a bit strong isn’t it?

    EMERSON: It’s correct. Barnaby Joyce has described Chinese acquisitions of prime farmland as being subject to an exponential increase. Here are the facts: that for all foreign investment in Australian agricultural land, back in 1984, 5.9 per cent of Australian agricultural land was foreign-owned. In 2010 that had increased to 6 per cent – an increase of 0.1 percentage points. Now Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce consider that to be an exponential increase. And you have to wonder here aloud whether they are more interested in harvesting votes than allowing farmers to get on with the job of harvesting their crops. Being locked out of the markets of Korea, of China, and of Japan would be a devastating setback for Australian farmers, when we already export 70 per cent of agricultural production. It’d have to be the dumbest idea in the world to come up with a policy that would scuttle free trade agreement negotiations with China, with Korea, and with Japan. And this is why the National Famers’ Federation opposes this policy of reducing the threshold.

    http://trademinister.gov.au/transcripts/2012/ce_tr_120803_abc_news_24.html

  4. So you lot are all quite comfortable with state owned Chinese companies buying up Australian agricultural assets?
    How does that further the interests of this country?

  5. Straight up lain Hall sets up a devide..”…you lot…”. lain, just who are, in your mind ; “you lot’?

  6. Strange how when it’s ‘Asians’ seeking to invest in our agriculture and mining it’s a worry and needs to be closely scrutinised, but when its the British, Americans and the Europeans it’s not and it’s a free for all. I’ll wager that there is more ownership of Australia by Tony Abbott’s ‘Anglospherics’ than by Asian interests — they’ve been at it so much longer. The sooner the ‘rag tag and bobtails’ realise that this will be the Asia/Indo/Pacific century and start to adapt to that change the better it will be for Australia’s interests. Our interests no longer lie with the UK, or the EU, or for that matter the US if we want to be free and independent.

  7. Those who don’t chant the Radical Right’s disordered, incoherent and racist mantras are You Lot, presumably, jaycee.

  8. I suppose it’s only to be expected that they’ll form policies on the run.

    Thing is, they don’t believe they need polices anyway. Policies and all that sort of hard work – pah! they’re for real political parties like Labor. The born-to-rule rabble have only got to show up on polling day and be swept into their rightful place in power.

    I mean, once you’ve got WorkChoices (or whatever name you call it), why do you need others. WorkChoices keeps the billionaires happy, screws working people and the small businesses that rely on their discretionary spending, makes life harder for unions and thus Labor, and increases the division between the haves and the have-nots. It’s all Liberal “values” embodied in one. So, keep the WorkChoices stinker under wraps, keep the fear and smear at high pitch, let the media carry you day by day and let nature take its political course.

  9. So Abbott is proposing to turn more agricultural land over to mining and developers and away from agriculture, because that will be the result of his latest brain farting popularism.

  10. Where I live, one of the most successful farmers is Portugese. Does that make his land and all he grows upon it property of the Potugese govt’?
    There are Germans, Italians, Dutch….oh you name it….what’s arong with the Chinese? Dammit! we already export most of our produce anyway.

  11. “…we already export most of our produce anyway.”….I should have added ; don’t you remember the AWB. scandal?…..Say!..has anyone ever been charged over that little incident yet..Oh!, that’s right, ..it was investigated by the “Liberal federal police”..the same ones who are hard at work on the Thomson/Slipper/coalition sedition scandal…”It’s soo complicated..Give us a couple more years!”. Yeah, it’s complicated alright..look how difficult it was for Wixxy to find details!

  12. So `you`lot` are all quite comfortable with state owned
    Chinese companies buying up Australian Business assets?
    How did that further the interests of this country?
    Profits? Jobs? National-Savings?

    Mr-Rabbit bleating about this is bullshit.
    His mob is only interested in handing more wealth to
    billionaires. No interest in farmers, but for
    National`s Vote.

  13. And under Howard with the full support of Abbott Australia handed over record investment to foreigners, it’s why he had record current account deficits year on year.

    And in another display of Dazed and Confused he wants to make it easier and cheaper for foreign investment in our resources and manufacturing.

  14. The problem with Chinese investment is that most of it comes form state owned entities not the ethnicity of those with the cheque book. If those here are comfortable for extensions of a totalitarian one party state acquiring control of our assets what does that say about the way you minions of the left think?

  15. GOCs can be fully owned or partially owned by Government. As a definitional issue, it is difficult to determine categorically what level of state ownership would qualify an entity to be considered as “state-owned”, since governments can also own regular stock, without implying any special interference. As an example, the Chinese Investment Corporation agreed in 2007 to acquire a 10% interest in the global investment bank Morgan Stanley, but it is unlikely that this would qualify the latter as a government-owned corporation. Government-owned or state-run enterprises are often the result of corporatization, a process in which government agencies and departments are re-organized as semi-autonomous corporate entities, sometimes with partial shares listed on stock exchanges.

    So what Iain is averring that all foreign investment in Australia be curtailed. If you were to really look at investment in Australia, and indeed around the world, you would find government ownership or corporatism of one kind or another involved.

    Other problem for Iain is that Abbott didn’t say Chinese investment, he said foreign investment. Last time I looked foreign didn’t just mean one country.

  16. Hey Iain, so you think Reith is a minion of the left? Is dumb populist policy, full stop. Defending it makes you look pathetic. You don’t have to support every single policy the libs come up with do you? Oh, well when this is the only one I guess you do!

  17. I am grateful to the Finnigans on twitter for the following

    I am just recording this for posterity, so far PM Gillard is to be killed by:

    1. Burning – http://polliepomes.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/tony-abbott-witch-picture.jpg
    2. Put in a bag and dump into the sea – Alan Jones
    3. To be shot at: ”walking around with targets on their foreheads”. – Tony Abbott
    4. To be smashed: “Their baseball bats aren’t there for Anna Bligh, they’re there for this Prime Minister” – Tony Abbott
    5. Kick to death – Grahame Morris
    6. Not to mention being crucified – by the #MSMhacks daily
    7. “lay down and die” – Tony Abbott
    8. feed to the shark – NLP
    9. Now to be minced at the abattoir like an old cow – David Farley
    10. She was supposed to fall on her sword – Grattan

    perhaps her opponents who come onto this blog abusing her would care to comment if the above descriptions would ever be directed at a male PM and do they go along with such obscene utterances?
    What the hell is wrong with the MSM and the LNP and there supporters, that they are so desperate to be rid of this ground breaking, formidable woman they resort to such disgusting behaviour,
    This country is sliding into a very very ugly abyss!!!

  18. The problem with Foreign investment is that most of it comes at the expense of Australians opportunity to build wealth, not the ethnicity of those with the cheque book.
    If those here are comfortable for extensions of a totalitarian two party state selling control of our assets, what does that say about the way you minions of the `right`think?

  19. Unless I’m mistaken, the British Empire took total control of the entire country and dished parcels of land out to selected loyalists back in the “good ol’ days”…Perhaps the approval of foreign ownership ought to be handed to the original owners of this country for their assesment?

  20. Möbius Ecko

    So what Iain is averring that all foreign investment in Australia be curtailed. If you were to really look at investment in Australia, and indeed around the world, you would find government ownership or corporatism of one kind or another involved.

    If that was what I had wanted to suggest Möbius Ecko then that is what I would have explicitly said said that. However your suggestion that all foreign investment is in one way or another under “government ownership” is utterly ludicrous

    Other problem for Iain is that Abbott didn’t say Chinese investment, he said foreign investment. Last time I looked foreign didn’t just mean one country.

    He specifically spoke about foreign investment by Chinese state owned entities on the ABC report I heard.
    kitkat @ 10:45 am

    Hey Iain, so you think Reith is a minion of the left? Is dumb populist policy, full stop. Defending it makes you look pathetic. You don’t have to support every single policy the libs come up with do you? Oh, well when this is the only one I guess you do!

    I don’t think that what Reith says lessens my point at all
    Möbius Ecko @ 10:55 am

    Real battles lie within Abbott’s own camp

    Oh please no one believes that no matter how often you try to sell the idea

    dafid1 @ 10:57 am

    I am grateful to the Finnigans on twitter for the following

    I am just recording this for posterity, so far PM Gillard is to be killed by:

    1. Burning – http://polliepomes.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/tony-abbott-witch-picture.jpg
    2. Put in a bag and dump into the sea – Alan Jones
    3. To be shot at: ”walking around with targets on their foreheads”. – Tony Abbott
    4. To be smashed: “Their baseball bats aren’t there for Anna Bligh, they’re there for this Prime Minister” – Tony Abbott
    5. Kick to death – Grahame Morris
    6. Not to mention being crucified – by the #MSMhacks daily
    7. “lay down and die” – Tony Abbott
    8. feed to the shark – NLP
    9. Now to be minced at the abattoir like an old cow – David Farley
    10. She was supposed to fall on her sword – Grattan

    😆
    😆
    😆
    You seem to be immune to understanding metaphor or rhetorical flourish.

    perhaps her opponents who come onto this blog abusing her would care to comment if the above descriptions would ever be directed at a male PM and do they go along with such obscene utterances?

    I heard worse suggested in reference to John Howard and Malcolm Fraser and I’m olde enough to remember the cruelties suggested as appropriate for Joh so cut the sanctimonious clap trap

    What the hell is wrong with the MSM and the LNP and there supporters, that they are so desperate to be rid of this ground breaking, formidable woman they resort to such disgusting behaviour,

    This country is sliding into a very very ugly abyss!!!

    No its being dragged there by teh ineptitude of Gillard and Swann et al
    730reportland @ 11:00 am

    The problem with Foreign investment is that most of it comes at the expense of Australians opportunity to build wealth, not the ethnicity of those with the cheque book.
    If those here are comfortable for extensions of a totalitarian two party state selling control of our assets, what does that say about the way you minions of the `right`think?

    Well personally I’m not so impressed by the growth at any price mentality of some on the right.

  21. I don’t think foreign investors would be interested in buying our land when the Coalition get in as the land will be covered with trees from there direct action policy, his green army will be made up from all the public servants that he has sacked, his broadband policy will not work as he will then have to knock down all the trees to lay the string from the tin cans that everyone will be carrying around just to call one another. Now that is progress. the LNP way, sounds good to Iain.

  22. Actually Iain what Reith said does not lesson what you said, it destroys it. Nice try at a comeback though kiddo!

  23. paulwello @ 12:41 pm

    I don’t think foreign investors would be interested in buying our land when the Coalition get in as the land will be covered with trees from there direct action policy, his green army will be made up from all the public servants that he has sacked, his broadband policy will not work as he will then have to knock down all the trees to lay the string from the tin cans that everyone will be carrying around just to call one another. Now that is progress. the LNP way, sounds good to Iain.

    Are you forgetting that I offer only grudging support for the Coalition plan for addressing Climate change?

    kitkat@ 12:50 pm

    Actually Iain what Reith said does not lesson(sic) what you said, it destroys it. Nice try at a comeback though kiddo!

    How so?

  24. So Iain, what part of the coalitions Direct Action Policy do you agree with, the planting of trees that cover all of Australia’s agriculture land, the paying of big polluters to keep polluting, the $1,500.00 a year everyone will pay without any compensation from the government. Which part do you agree with Iain.

  25. Mr. Abbott now has at least three policies that many on his own side, along with most others, are in disagreement.

    First is his extravagant baby bonus. Second is the Direct Action which I have seen no support.

    Yesterday we have his foreign investment scheme, that has the National Party tail wagging the Liberal dog. Does not appear to have much support for that one either.

    Not bad going, three out of three.

  26. Not much when it comes down to it Paul Given the power I would drop the whole thing. That said I do note that there are some benefits to the environment from doing things that improve soil quality and tree cover. What are the benefits form the carbon tax again? You don’t expect much form your previous comments now do you?

  27. Cuppa
    That sound an awful lot like vested interests bemoaning the fact that under Abbott they won’t be able to speculate in another derivatives market to me

  28. That Link is for you Iain, I actually do not think you will go there, its to hard for people who know only three word slogans.

  29. Iain, you said “If those here are comfortable for extensions of a totalitarian one party state acquiring control of our assets what does that say about the way you minions of the left think?”

    Earlier this week, Mr Reith wrote an opinion piece for the ABC in which he said Mr Abbott’s ideas would “only politicise the process”.

    Mr Reith – who has recently set up a farm with Angus cattle in Victoria – said proposed changes to the Foreign Investment Review Board would damage Australia’s international reputation and discourage foreign investors.

    “This morning on Twitter Mr Reith posted: “Pandering to populism is contrary to public interest.”

    And,

    “You don’t have to be an economist to understand that working collaboratively with a company, albeit a state-owned enterprise, can be good news for jobs and economic performance.”

    So, by your argument Reith is a minion of the left, and he is also totally opposed to your view on the issue.

  30. So Iain, according to the Government’s Carbon policy, “So if you think, as I do, that only the spivs and shonks will benefit from the carbon tax then why do you endorse it?”

    Iain who are “spivs and shonks”.

  31. Not only Reith kitkat but according to Iain’s criteria the National Party and most businesses and agricultural orginisations, like the one that joked Gillard should be slaughtered like an old cow as she was as useless as one.

    All lefty pinko socialists wreckers of the fine upstanding and honest conservative agenda.

    What a joke.

  32. And the other stupid thing is that as has already been reported on, Abbott’s carbon abatement scheme is wide open to rorting and cost overruns, it’s an invitation to polluters to skim large amounts of money, yet Gillard’s has multi-levels of oversight and heavy penalties in place.

  33. rhetorical flourish.

    😯

    Perhaps you have examples of this kind of abuse ‘rhetorical flourish ‘ being used in the towards a previous PM from people of similar standing and influence?

  34. Iain, the Gillard Government could bring out a policy that provides bloggers with a six figure income, yet I’m sure you’d even find fault with that. 🙄

    Personally, I’d welcome it. 🙂

  35. Mobius I rather like this tweet…

    Jason Stewart ‏@stewwed_jase

    3 LNP Prems have sacked 26,700 (so far), yet abbott says we should be scared of a carbon price which reduces jobs growth 0.1% #wtf #auspol

    How hard is that to understand…

  36. This is Iain’s answer to the PPL Policy that the Coalition wants to Implement.

    “The the tax from the PPL will help the whole nation because it will encourage/enable some of our best and brightest women to have children and experience teaches us that intelligent and high achieving parents tend to produce like minded offspring. That way we won’t need to import so many skilled people in the future. Don’t you think that would be good for the country?

    So the Coalitions PPL Policy is only for the “intelligent and high achieving parents”.

    Iain is so wrong.

  37. The aged troll crawls out from under to defend the abuse and demonising of the PM as ‘metaphor or rhetorical flourish.’ You fool, you really expect me to swallow that. Most of the tories that uttered those disgraceful attacks wouldn’t know the meaning of metaphors or rhetorical flourish. Let alone how to use. That defence you slyly try to use merely shows your support of such attacks. Back under the ground low life trolls are noted for filth.

  38. Migs, from your link to The Age, I do like the quote towards the conclusion of the article where Malcolm Brennan describes Abbott’s speech in Beijing as “bellicose”….

  39. ..and further to my post on rorting of the carbon pricing schemes.

    Abbott actively encouraged businesses and individuals to rort Gillard’s scheme. No such encouragement is needed for Abbott’s scheme, it’s open slather.

  40. Abbott did specify that foreign affairs wasn’t his forté and he continuously sets about proving himself correct in this assessment. China/Australia are working on many many projects and cooperatively. Diplomacy and China are something which requires expertise and a particular insight into the culture of how business is done in that country. Heaven help us when/if Abbott and J. Bishop are at the helm.

  41. dafid 1 @ 3.28pm, the article came from the online version of Adelaide outfit
    Independent Weekly which is described in Wikipedia as

    The Independent Weekly often features articles of critical and intellectual substance, especially with regard to local issues,

    A very generous self-appraisal…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Independent_Weekly

    Having read it enough times to know it’s a Liberal rag, this latest awful offering by Des Ryan comes as no surprise. Every word he writes should be viewed with suspicion.

    Mr. Ryan authored a hatchet job about Premier Don Dunstan way back when and it’s been given an airing today in The Australian.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/dunstan-back-in-spotlight/story-e6frg6p6-1111115744222

    What is it with the Liberal smear campaigns and homophobia, gleefully reported by the Murdoch press?

  42. Swan blames shock-jocks for PM ‘cow’ slur

    Treasurer Wayne Swan has laid the blame for comments comparing Prime Minister Julia Gillard to an “old cow” at the feet of Sydney’s shock-jocks and opposition leader Tony Abbott.
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1677658/Swan-blames-shock-jocks-for-PM-cow-slur

    Roxon condemns ‘sexist, silly’ remarks on PM
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1677646/Roxon-condemns-sexist-silly-remarks-on-PM

    ‘Old cow’ quip about Gillard brings a rebuke for farming leader

    The remarks were condemned by the Minister for the Status of Women, Julie Collins, who described them as ”appalling and totally unacceptable”

    ”They amount to destructive prejudices long past their use-by date in our modern, diverse society,” she said. ”Mr Farley and those who laughed along with him should take a good, long, hard look at themselves.”

    http://m.smh.com.au/national/old-cow-quip-about-gillard-brings-a-rebuke-for-farming-leader-20120803-23l9q.html

  43. There were several “smears of excrement” who wrote disparaging pieces about Dunstan for newslimedited. Most tried to justify themselves later by writing an “underware autobiography”. About the only bit of filth left alive to remember them is the bloke who employed them to do it!

  44. Pip..the company has a web site..:AAco. on it there is an email address. I sent the old fart Farley an email stating my opinion. Give him a blast!

  45. For all his reported faults, Don Dunstan was a visionary.

    People may not be aware, but as SA Attorney General he tore up the Police Act which forbade Aboriginal people being seen with white people.

    The man did so much for SA yet had to endure so much public ridicule after the death of his wife, Adele Koh.

  46. paulwello @ 1:30 pm

    That Link is for you Iain, I actually do not think you will go there, its to hard for people who know only three word slogans.

    Mate i’m on the ALP mailing list and I get personally addressed Emails from both Wayne and Julia

    kitkat

    Earlier this week, Mr Reith wrote an opinion piece for the ABC in which he said Mr Abbott’s ideas would “only politicise the process”.

    There are some rather rabid free marketeers in the coalition like Reith who I just don’t like and don’t agree with why would you think that my support of the opposition and its policies would lack discrimination?

    Mr Reith – who has recently set up a farm with Angus cattle in Victoria – said proposed changes to the Foreign Investment Review Board would damage Australia’s international reputation and discourage foreign investors.

    Well there are some foreign investors who should be discouraged especially if they are agents of a foreign government.

    So, by your argument Reith is a minion of the left, and he is also totally opposed to your view on the issue.

    No he just has something in common with them


    paulwello @ 2:33 pm

    Iain who are “spivs and shonks”.

    If you don’t know then why were you agreeing with my dislike of them in the first place
    Möbius Ecko2:39 pm

    And the other stupid thing is that as has already been reported on, Abbott’s carbon abatement scheme is wide open to rorting and cost overruns, it’s an invitation to polluters to skim large amounts of money, yet Gillard’s has multi-levels of oversight and heavy penalties in place.

    As Gillard’s scheme is little more that a Ponzi scheme disguised as social engineering why should we take any comfort from the huge and expensive bureaucracy created to administer it?


    Tom R 2:42 pm

    rhetorical flourish.

    😯

    Perhaps you have examples of this kind of abuse ‘rhetorical flourish ‘ being used in the towards a previous PM from people of similar standing and influence?


    Try reading here

    Miglo @ 2:42 pm

    Iain, the Gillard Government could bring out a policy that provides bloggers with a six figure income, yet I’m sure you’d even find fault with that. 🙄
    Personally, I’d welcome it. 🙂

    Yep sure would Migs ; Anything with less that eight numbers is an insult!

    paulwello @ 2:42 pm

    Iain I do not think like you, only liberal trolls think like you.

    Well you were earlier agreeing with me, probably before you knew what a Spiv or a Shonk is.

    Miglo @ 2:51 pm

    Iain has got it all arse up. The spivs and shonks are the ones who’d manipulate Abbott’s plan.

    That can’t be the case because they are all fully employed working on Gillard’s scheme mate 😉

    paulwello @ 2:59 pm

    This is Iain’s answer to the PPL Policy that the Coalition wants to Implement.

    “The the tax from the PPL will help the whole nation because it will encourage/enable some of our best and brightest women to have children and experience teaches us that intelligent and high achieving parents tend to produce like minded offspring. That way we won’t need to import so many skilled people in the future. Don’t you think that would be good for the country?

    So the Coalitions PPL Policy is only for the “intelligent and high achieving parents”.
    Iain is so wrong.

    No you are Pau,l if you think that there is no correlation between parental intelligence or achievement and how well their offspring do in life.

    dafid1 @ 3:28 pm

    The aged troll crawls out from under to defend the abuse and demonising of the PM as ‘metaphor or rhetorical flourish.’ You fool, you really expect me to swallow that. Most of the tories that uttered those disgraceful attacks wouldn’t know the meaning of metaphors or rhetorical flourish. Let alone how to use. That defence you slyly try to use merely shows your support of such attacks. Back under the ground low life trolls are noted for filth.

    In my long experience it is you rabid lefties who struggle with understanding the nuances of the english language and I really think that you should read the piece I link to above who puts the commentary about Gillard that so offends you into the context of abuse previously directed to John Howard.

  47. Just another aspect of Abbott’s reliance on the media. A swathe of populist policies, never held to account.

  48. Bob, I agree completely. Zero practical application. For example, where is Abbott’s Green Army going to materialise from..

  49. Pip at 4.00
    Had a quick read of the Oz article on Dunstan. Particularly like the line about paying a price for crossing Dunstan. I’ve seen this tactic referred to as right wing projection but I differ. My understanding of projection as a defence mechanism is that it’s unconscious, whereas the Murdoch & right wing use of it is anything but.
    My recollections are that the Powers That Be regarded Dunstan Labor as a threat to the established order of things & wanted him out for that reason. A bit like federal politics today.

  50. Min at 5.04
    Buggered if I know. I doubt Tony knows either. But that’s not the point is it? The point is that it sounds good (sort of). Actually, if the G.A. ever materialises, it may do so as a sort of hybrid conscript/volunteer group. People will be told they’ll lose benefits if they don’t volunteer. This won’t apply to wealthy recipients of the PPL scheme of course, or in fact any aspects of middle class welfare. It’ll be applied to the lower classes who traditionally provide the infantry for any army.
    But I think it’ll most likely be quietly shelved, with the assistance of the usual suspects.

  51. Bob, that sounds exceptionally dangerous..a work for the dole scheme and if you don’t go and plant Tony’s trees then you are in danger of losing benefits. Abbott has already suggested that people who don’t or even those who cannot move to work on the mines will be losing benefits.

    Under pressure from the Nationals, Abbott said that his tree planting will be restricted to non-viable farmland. Therefore are we going to have that people on welfare who do not want to/or cannot afford to move out Whoop-Whoop will likewise lose benefits?

    I think what we would end up with is Tony with a few photo-ops with “his” Green Army and then the whole thing will fade into oblivion…

  52. So the troll admits it agrees with the disgraceful comments directed at the PM, by its silence. How unsurprising. Refuses to answer pertinent questions about the mob who assembled under the banners on Parliament grounds. Nice bunch of lib nasties A previous comment referring to excrement is very appropriate directed at a tory troll who dishes up plenty of that substance.

  53. Wow, Iain missed his calling as a contortionist, as he bends himself out of shape to defend Abbott’s latest thought bubble. The fact that barely 5% of agricultural land is foreign owned would suggest that current laws are working fine-in relation to agriculture. Yet Abbott is perfectly fine with increased foreign investment in mining, & is happy to have an “each-way” bet in regards to CSG & coal mining in agricultural areas (depending on which side of the Country he is speaking). How about, instead of echoing Abbott’s populist xenophobia regarding China, you just admit that the man is a hopeless dud, who will utterly bankrupt this Country with his long list of unfunded thought bubbles.

  54. Perhaps you have examples of this kind of abuse ‘rhetorical flourish ‘ being used in the towards a previous PM from people of similar standing and influence?

    Yea, there are extremists who say stoopid things on both sides. I’m talking about people in a position of power and so-called respect doing it. You cannot equate that with a guy at a rally holding a placard (mind you, it might be different if somone in a position of power and so-called respect stood in front of that placard and delivered their message)

  55. The other thing that strikes me about this litany of abuse directed at the PM, is the complete absence of any condemnation from the conservative side.

    I recall the outrage expressed by ALL sides when the unions trashed the doors of parliament. I recall Beazley condemning them loud and clearly.

    All we get from the conservatives, when they take things even further, is ‘but they do stuff too’

    Pathetic, and completely disengenous

    Just what IS tabots opinion of this latest abuse? Silence, when normally you can’t shut him up (well, unless you are asking him an unscripted question)

  56. Tom R, I think that tells us a lot about Tony Abbott. His silence suggests he condones displays of hatred.

  57. Sorry Iain, when people from as far right as “Reith and the rabid free marketeers” through to “the leftist minions” all think Abbott’s plan for foreign investment change is populist bunkum, and you continue to support him, it is obvious that your support for the coalition and its policies is without discrimination. A better description of your support would be blind or even juvenile.

  58. The little I saw of Abbott’s overseas investment “discussion paper ” had holes you could drive a Pilbara truck through. It’s nothing but faux “policy” to keep Bananaby & his ilk happy while being portrayed by his adoring media as a statesman.

  59. Min
    the green army will be made up from all those sacked public servants forceable relocated as required. abbort’s brave new world.

  60. Abbott is indeed going to be the ,miracle man.

    He is going to do more with less.

    He is going to do away with Labor tax receipts, spend more and balance the budget.

    He is going to have less taxes, while bringing in new taxes.

    The biggest miracle it to grow trees on non-viable farmland.

    What scares me most about the man, he tells us nothing about what he proposes. We have no idea of his understanding of today’s problems.

    All we get is three word slogans, motherhood statements, and he will do better.

    No details. No facts.

    Every time he has attempted to introduce a policy, it has been disastrous.

    I forgot to add IR to that previous list. The Opposition love affair with individual contracts with no protection for the worker, and the right to sack with cause given.

    We ask the Abbott defenders or Gillard haters to tell us why they have their beliefs.

    What we ask of them, maybe not be fair. They cannot tell us, because the truth is that know there is nothing they can say in Abbott’s defence, and are restricted to denigration the PM.

    That is hard when we are lucky enough to live in one of the best economies in the world.

    Now I have a news flash, IR disputes are going to rise. Nothing to do with FWA or the Federal Governments.

    PS and other workers connected to governments institutions are under attack from Coalition Premiers, as never before.

    Their jobs and conditions are under direct attack..

    Still no charges laid against Mr. Thomson.

  61. Iain, I do not agree with you never have and never will, I actually went to school with a person from a poor family, he is now a CEO with one of the largest Construction companies in the world, started of as a stacker at woolies, his parents did not graduate from high school, so that blows your argument out of the air.

    The coalitions PPL only benefits the rich.

  62. Iain could you please provide some figures on this for us, if you think that there is no correlation between parental intelligence or achievement and how well their offspring do in life.

    So Iain your saying the poor will always be poor, dole bludger’s dole bludger’s, and the rich and wealthy are the cream of the crop. that seems to be your argument.

    Iain who are these if you think that there is no correlation between parental intelligence or achievement and how well their offspring do in life.

    So Iain who are these Spiv or a Shonk, are they the liberal party policy makers, I do not know who they are.

  63. Same with my parents, father was a shearing contractor, mother just a housewife and mother and they both worked hard, and she thinks that the work I do, I should be paid more and I work 24/7 52 weeks of the year.

  64. I wish you would all get *over* Iain 🙄 …….. It’s called a *scroll* wheel…… it’s that round thingy in the middle of your mouse…… *HELLO* :mrgreen: ……I call on ya all to ‘middle finger Iain’, (ya know you want to 🙂 …)
    That far off letter Q, Iain! 😀

  65. Just trying to skip those bits of the mis-information age as provided by ‘ilk’s’ such as Iain… Scroll the time waster who “never” accepts the challengers provided by Whisperers to back his talk……. he is a man with NO WALK……… *scroll*.

  66. jaycee

    August 4, 2012 @ 12:26 pm

    Unless I’m mistaken, the British Empire took total control of the entire country and dished parcels of land out to selected loyalists back in the “good ol’ days”…Perhaps the approval of foreign ownership ought to be handed to the original owners of this country for their assesment?
    *classic* JC….. 😀

  67. Iain anyone can get those. Mate i’m on the ALP mailing list and I get personally addressed Emails from both Wayne and Julia 😈

  68. dafid1 @ 5:36 pm

    So the troll admits it agrees with the disgraceful comments directed at the PM, by its silence. How unsurprising. Refuses to answer pertinent questions about the mob who assembled under the banners on Parliament grounds. Nice bunch of lib nasties A previous comment referring to excrement is very appropriate directed at a tory troll who dishes up plenty of that substance.

    Did you read the contents of my link???
    Thought not.


    Marcus @ 6:16 pm

    Wow, Iain missed his calling as a contortionist, as he bends himself out of shape to defend Abbott’s latest thought bubble. The fact that barely 5% of agricultural land is foreign owned would suggest that current laws are working fine-in relation to agriculture.

    No contortions necessary at all, when Tony Abbott or the coalition says something I agree with I will endorse it and when their idea seems wrong to me I don’t endorse it.

    Yet Abbott is perfectly fine with increased foreign investment in mining, & is happy to have an “each-way” bet in regards to CSG & coal mining in agricultural areas (depending on which side of the Country he is speaking).

    Well when it comes to CSG I happen to think that we should not be exporting it al all. We should instead be keeping it for our own future transportation needs. IMHO to sell it cheap now is a silly thing endorsed by both sides of the house.

    How about, instead of echoing Abbott’s populist xenophobia regarding China, you just admit that the man is a hopeless dud, who will utterly bankrupt this Country with his long list of unfunded thought bubbles.

    That statement has absolutely no internal logic and I certainly don’t think that about Tony Abbott so you will get no admission from me saying that his government will be anything other than an improvement over Labor.

    Tom R 2012 @ 7:11 pm

    Perhaps you have examples of this kind of abuse ‘rhetorical flourish ‘ being used in the towards a previous PM from people of similar standing and influence?

    Check out the link I posted earlier Tom.

    Yea, there are extremists who say stoopid things on both sides. I’m talking about people in a position of power and so-called respect doing it. You cannot equate that with a guy at a rally holding a placard (mind you, it might be different if someone
    in a position of power and so-called respect stood in front of that placard and delivered their message)

    get over those signs Tom

    Tom R @ 7:57 pm

    The other thing that strikes me about this litany of abuse directed at the PM, is the complete absence of any condemnation from the conservative side.

    Well that may just be because we conservatives have seen it all before when the left were constantly on the attack against John Howard

    I recall the outrage expressed by ALL sides when the unions trashed the doors of parliament. I recall Beazley condemning them loud and clearly.

    Lest see unionists actaully do damage to the doors of parliament, commit actual violence compared with a few harsh words about a politician Hmm are these two things of the same magnitude when it comes to “political naughtiness”?

    Don’t know about You Tom but I reckon that there is a substantive difference there

    All we get from the conservatives, when they take things even further, is ‘but they do stuff too’

    I don’t like threats of violence any more than you do Tom but there is a big difference between actual threats and political rhetoric that uses violent imagery.

    Pathetic, and completely disingenuous

    NO that applies to the hypocrisy of those whining about a few colourful metaphors

    Just what IS tabots opinion of this latest abuse? Silence, when normally you can’t shut him up (well, unless you are asking him an unscripted question)

    What do you expect him to do? State the obvious?
    Roswell @ 8:20 pm

    Tom R, I think that tells us a lot about Tony Abbott. His silence suggests he condones displays of hatred.

    Mate the truth is out there so maybe you should try to find it.
    kitkat @ 8:21 pm

    Sorry Iain, when people from as far right as “Reith and the rabid free marketeers” through to “the leftist minions” all think Abbott’s plan for foreign investment change is populist bunkum, and you continue to support him, it is obvious that your support for the coalition and its policies is without discrimination. A better description of your support would be blind or even juvenile.

    No not at all my support of the colaition is neither blind nor juvenile its the result of long consideration and careful thought which led me to the conclusion that even if my political tradition and working class roots suggest that I should be supporting the ALP their sheer incompetence and inability to balance a set of books made supporting them impossible. The Coalition are definitely not perfect, I don’t agree with the extreme free market types like Peter Reith for instance but they are miles ahead of the dishevelled and desperate creatures that inhabit the Labor Party. Which is a long winded way of saying that of the two choices for government they are the lesser of the two evils


    paulwello @ 11:41 pm

    Iain, I do not agree with you never have and never will, I actually went to school with a person from a poor family, he is now a CEO with one of the largest Construction companies in the world, started of as a stacker at woolies, his parents did not graduate from high school, so that blows your argument out of the air.

    The coalitions PPL only benefits the rich.

    As your comment suggests not all people who succeed in business come from wealth themselves, My own brother has a successful business that employs many people and he and I both grew up in a poor family that lurched form struggling to pay one bill to the next. That said I stand by my previous comemnts about parents and the success of their offspring.
    paulwello @ 11:57 pm

    Iain could you please provide some figures on this for us, if you think that there is no correlation between parental intelligence or achievement and how well their offspring do in life.

    Oh come off it Paul all you have to do is look to the demographics of academic achievers and you will find that most of tehm come from parents who have themselves done well in higher education. Now I put this down to two things. Firstly intelligence does seem to be an inherited trait, and secondly intelligent people tend to teach their children better as they nurture them

    So Iain your(sic) saying the poor will always be poor, dole bludger’s dole bludger’s, and the rich and wealthy are the cream of the crop. that seems to be your argument.

    Not at all, in fact I am very fond of telling all and sundry that “wealth is not measured in money” I am a great believer in academic merit being the key to higher education

    Iain who are these if you think that there is no correlation between parental intelligence or achievement and how well their offspring do in life.

    There are a lot of you lefties who seem to think that success in education is all about how much money you can throw at class rooms when the truth is otherwise

    So Iain who are these Spiv(s)or a Shonk(s), are they the liberal party policy makers, I do not know who they are.

    Clearly you don’t

    Miglo @ 11:59 pm

    My parents weren’t that bright, but I’m pure genius. :mrgreen:

    Well apart from your distinct lean to the left and your unrequited love of our PM that is 🙂 😆

    paulwello @ 12:12 am

    Same with my parents, father was a shearing contractor, mother just a housewife and mother and they both worked hard, and she thinks that the work I do, I should be paid more and I work 24/7 52 weeks of the year.
    There are exceptions to every rule Paul.

    LOVO @ 12:16 am

    I wish you would all get *over* Iain 🙄 …….. It’s called a *scroll* wheel…… it’s that round thingy in the middle of your mouse…… *HELLO* :mrgreen: ……I call on ya all to ‘middle finger Iain’, (ya know you want to 🙂 …)
    That far off letter Q, Iain! 😀

    I Lovo you too 😮

    jaycee @ 12:26 pm

    Unless I’m mistaken, the British Empire took total control of the entire country and dished parcels of land out to selected loyalists back in the “good ol’ days”…Perhaps the approval of foreign ownership ought to be handed to the original owners of this country for their assesment?
    *classic* JC….. 😀

    No people own any real estate unless they are able to exclude other claimants from it, the indigenous people could not exclude the British so they no longer own the land QED
    paulwello @ 1:02 am

    Iain anyone can get those. Mate i’m on the ALP mailing list and I get personally addressed Emails from both Wayne and Julia 😈

    Yes I know but you miss my point which was to inform you that I do know and understand ALP policy direct from the horses’ mouth.

  69. Iain, has it missed your notice that no one agrees with anything you say. You are like those religious fanatics that knocks on ones door to say one for god. One has to be rude to get them to move on. Maybe you could find another site to save. This one is beyond redemption.

    There have been many studies over the last few decades, that have looked at how private school children versus those from the public system.

    The private schools appear to achieve more in final exams. Therefore one would expect them to do better at uni. This does not happen.

    Maybe when we are comparing how well out children achieve in comparison to Asia, Maybe we should be making the comparison at the end of first year uni, not the final high school exams. Would not surprise me if the difference has evened out by then. The tube fed cramming would be out of the system by then.

    It is inequity and lack of resources that lead to children of lower educated and poor parents performing worse..

    I know that Mr. Pyne does not believe this but he is in a minority in this regard. Iain, you obviously agree.

    Then Iain you cannot be that bright, if you cannot see, you are being treated with contempt on this site. No one is taking you seriously.

    Many of us here, have I believe been members and more of Labor and the unions. I think we may have some idea how they operate.

    None have said that either are saints. Yes,politics is a tough, and sometimes dirty game. Always had been. That is the nature of politics.

    I do not believe it has ever been as dirty or hateful than it is now.

    Most of the hate, is coming from the right.

    I am sure you will have an answer for me. You always do. I would bother, as it still does not make what you say, any more credible.

  70. Yes Scroll the Troll. he doesn’t know what he is talking about, so Iain has changed his mind, wow.There are exceptions to every rule Paul. and I though he was an R.

  71. So Iain who are these Spiv(s)or a Shonk(s), please enlighten us all as to who these are, we would all like to know.

  72. “There have been many studies over the last few decades, that have looked at how private school children versus those from the public system.

    The private schools appear to achieve more in final exams. Therefore one would expect them to do better at uni. This does not happen.”

    This is a very good point and it’s global. Studies in UK, Germany and the US have all found that publicly educated kids do much better in university than privately educated ones. And this is also the case for Australia.

    Maybe it’s why Howard hiked university fees so high that the more talented lower socio-economic students couldn’t take places away from the dumber ones having their fees paid for by rich mummy and/or daddy and then being molly coddled through university.

    Also at the secondary school level you will find that the slightly better performance in exams of the private school students, and it is only slightly better, is because for a starter private schools get to chose their students and quickly cull under performing ones, who then get put into the public system. Also many parents of private school students spend considerable amounts of money on out of school extra curricula tutoring, so there must be something lacking in the private school.

  73. MO, you must be wrong. Pyne told us, it is a waste of money to employ extra teachers. Large classes are OK.

    Except it is one to one, that many parents pay for.

  74. Iain

    I checked the link. All she could say was she was sure Union leaders have said nasty things. I am sure they have too. I’m not sure they are as bad as what the PM is getting now, and I am also sure that, when they do, they are brought into line by people on their side of the political divide.

    You could always provide examples of these alleged incidents, as the examples of it happening to the present PM are readily available. I do recall probably the worst a previous PM being called was ‘lying rodent’. Unortunately, that tag was handed to him by someone from his own team.

    And no, I still haven’t seen any comment from tabot about this incident. I have been following Latika Bourke ‏on twitter who religiously tweets every brain fart he has, and silence. She had tweets from Bishop yesterday as well, but nothing about the incident. So your little comment the truth is out there so maybe you should try to find it doesn’t really cut it. The silence is out there, and it is deafening.

  75. I see Robb and Hockey have contradicted each other again over policy, this time the NDIS. One saying it will be fully funded by a Coalition government by 2018 but it will mean cutting other areas, and Hockey saying it won’t be funded by the Coalition, and anyway the government is not fully funding it either, nya nya.

    I’d like to know where Robb is going to find more cuts as they already have $50b in bogus cuts they have no hope of getting anywhere near to, and then Abbott has brain farted another $24b since then, and if you count Robb’s commitment there’s another $4.5b on top.

  76. Mobius, I missed that one..just wondering, who spoke first. Usually it’s Robb correcting the record when Hockey stuffs it up.

  77. Was Hockey on one of the breakfast shows, Nine I think the ABC said.

    Hockey doing his usual red faced burst a pooper valve impression of Shrek as he was dared to ask about funding one of their policies, which of course will be fully revealed at the next election, one minute before the polls close, and done by Adaminaby Public School Year Four Introduction to Pocket Money as a one hour homework exercise inbetween Pokemon and a rerun of Batman the Dark Night. Parents help strictly forbidden but the Coalition are available on a hotline to give any guidance needed.

  78. Mobius, Abbott has gone on and one about sacking public servants..he won’t have to..they’ll all bolt to the nearest exit when expected to sort out Hockey’s mess…

  79. Catching up @ 8:16 am

    Iain, has it missed your notice that no one agrees with anything you say. You are like those religious fanatics that knocks on ones door to say one for god. One has to be rude to get them to move on. Maybe you could find another site to save. This one is beyond redemption.

    Certainly not C U You yourself have told me this often enough.

    There have been many studies over the last few decades, that have looked at how private school children versus those from the public system.

    Agreed

    The private schools appear to achieve more in final exams. Therefore one would expect them to do better at uni. This does not happen.

    The problem for you with this claim is that I’m not arguing that at all I’m saying that its parents who make the difference not the schools that the children are sent too

    Maybe when we are comparing how well out children achieve in comparison to Asia, Maybe we should be making the comparison at the end of first year uni, not the final high school exams. Would not surprise me if the difference has evened out by then. The tube fed cramming would be out of the system by then.

    Maybe so but I’m talking about how the sort of work ethic that children learn from their parents that matters.

    It is inequity and lack of resources that lead to children of lower educated and poor parents performing worse..

    No its much more to do with how important parents convince their children that a good education is.

    Then Iain you cannot be that bright, if you cannot see, you are being treated with contempt on this site. No one is taking you seriously.

    CU the bigger the challenge the greater the reward.

    I do not believe it has ever been as dirty or hateful than it is now.

    Most of the hate, is coming from the right.

    NO I don’t think that is the case at all, political hate seems to me to be a function of desperation and there are few who are more desperate at present than Lefties as they contemplate the prospect of Labor being in the wilderness for a very long time.

    I am sure you will have an answer for me. You always do. I would bother, as it still does not make what you say, any more credible.

    paulwello @ 8:23 am

    So Iain who are these Spiv(s)or a Shonk(s), please enlighten us all as to who these are, we would all like to know.

    Tim Flannery, Al Gore, James Hansen, Robert Manne et al


    Tom R @ 9:22 am

    I checked the link. All she could say was she was sure Union leaders have said nasty things. I am sure they have too. I’m not sure they are as bad as what the PM is getting now, and I am also sure that, when they do, they are brought into line by people on their side of the political divide.

    I think that when it comes to nastiness you minions of the left are being rather patronising of Gillard to think that she needs protection from a few harsh words because of her gender. Because if you go through them none of them amount to a bona fide threat to her person. If you think other wise then please explain why you believe that. (cue conspiracy theory overload)

    You could always provide examples of these alleged incidents, as the examples of it happening to the present PM are readily available. I do recall probably the worst a previous PM being called was ‘lying rodent’. Unortunately, that tag was handed to him by someone from his own team.

    Well your memory is obviously severely tainted by your own confirmation bias or you would consider that calling Tony Abbott “the Mad Monk” is as bad as calling Gillard “Bob Brown’s Bitch”

    And no, I still haven’t seen any comment from tabot about this incident. I have been following Latika Bourke ‏on twitter who religiously tweets every brain fart he has, and silence. She had tweets from Bishop yesterday as well, but nothing about the incident. So your little comment the truth is out there so maybe you should try to find it doesn’t really cut it. The silence is out there, and it is deafening.

    What comment in particular is upsetting you? Was it the old cow thing?
    🙄

  80. “Maybe so but I’m talking about how the sort of work ethic that children learn from their parents that matters.”

    So the poor and low paid have poor work ethics. Were is the proof for this. What I believe you are saying, people are poor because they have poor work ethics.

    “parents who make the difference not the schools that the children are sent too’

    Why do you think the parents are unable or unwilling to support and encourage their kids. I assume you do not accept, they are unable to. Could it be, that the parents themselves, because of life experience may not value education.

    It is good to know, that you and Pyne have similar beliefs.

    So, kids who do not have responsible parents. deserve the education your lot are willing to offer. It is not the system that is at fault bit their parents.

    Grow up and enter the real world.

  81. she needs protection from a few harsh words because of her gender.

    That is most clearly NOT what I am saying, and you attempting to try and spin it that way, instead of putting up some examples of similar comments from people in a similar position is as telling as tabots complete silence on the issue of the cow comment (something else that I was clear about, but you choose to bicker over)

  82. It’s certain not because of her gender. I cannot think of one single instance where the PM was given any leeway whatsoever because of her gender, but rather the complete opposite, that the PM’s gender has been used as a method of attack. **see empty fruitbowls, ditch the witch, Bob Brown’s b*tch, big bum, deliberately barren..etc etc.

  83. Iain, you don’t make sense. Totally gone off topic when you were called to explain your position. You are Sophie Mirabella. An amateur boorish fool. Well done. Actually in Aussie, you’re a Fuckwit.

  84. Catching up @ 3:30 pm

    Maybe so but I’m talking about how the sort of work ethic that children learn from their parents that matters.”

    So the poor and low paid have poor work ethics. Were is the proof for this. What I believe you are saying, people are poor because they have poor work ethics.

    CU a “work ethic” is all about being self directing and self motivated

    “parents who make the difference not the schools that the children are sent too’

    Why do you think the parents are unable or unwilling to support and encourage their kids. I assume you do not accept, they are unable to. Could it be, that the parents themselves, because of life experience may not value education.

    Yeah well its seems that you agree with may point then CU. I will say though that I am entirely uninterested in attributing blame as you seem to be suggesting here.

    It is good to know, that you and Pyne have similar beliefs.

    So, kids who do not have responsible parents. deserve the education your lot are willing to offer. It is not the system that is at fault bit their parents.

    Fault is not the issue

    Grow up and enter the real world.

    I have two children that I send to public schools C U and I am right in there doing may best to encourage them to get the most out of their education but that is because I grew up in a family that were utterly indifferent to what my sibblings and I did at school. So please don’t tell me that I don’t know anything about the real world.

    Tom R @ 4:36 pm

    That is most clearly NOT what I am saying, and you attempting to try and spin it that way, instead of putting up some examples of similar comments from people in a similar position is as telling as tabots complete silence on the issue of the cow comment (something else that I was clear about, but you choose to bicker over)

    Firstly I’m not trying to bicker over anything I thought that it was the cow comment that you are particularly upset about and I just wanted to be sure.
    Can we agree that being civil in politics is an admirable thing? Because I certainly think that is so. However if we are realistic we just have to accept that we are not living in the age of fine bone china and cucumber sandwiches. We live in an age when saying “fuck” is no longer the big deal that it was even twenty years ago. As such to get all upset about some shall we say “colourful” metaphors is really being just a bit to precious.

    Min @ 4:47 pm

    It’s certain not because of her gender. I cannot think of one single instance where the PM was given any leeway whatsoever because of her gender, but rather the complete opposite, that the PM’s gender has been used as a method of attack. **see empty fruitbowls, ditch the witch, Bob Brown’s b*tch, big bum, deliberately barren..etc etc.

    Why should any MP be given leeway because of their Gender?

    kitkat @ 5:39 pm

    Iain, you don’t make sense. Totally gone off topic when you were called to explain your position. You are Sophie Mirabella. An amateur boorish fool. Well done. Actually in Aussie, you’re a Fuckwit.

    Yeah I love you too 😉

  85. As such to get all upset about some shall we say “colourful” metaphors is really being just a bit to precious.

    I really think/know that a debate at a national level partaken by leaders within our community needs to lift themselves higher than just abusing each other with ‘“colourful” metaphors ‘ (the way that you diminish the actual content with such a description is abhorrent itself).

    These are our leaders ffs. The level of debate is dictated by them, and it flows on down through to the rest of the community as a result). At the moment, they (the conservatives) are dragging it down to an unaccepatble level. Without any kind of leadership from someone who wants to be PM.

    BTW, still no examples are forthcoming I note.

  86. No, seriously Iain, I am worried about you. Having had a breif look over your posts on this site, you truley come across as either a boy who has been listening to his dads card nights and taken what said as fact, or an easily lead moron. You argue until cornered and then change the point of discussion. You use strawmen better than Dorithy whilst falsly accusing accusing others of the same charge. You, my friend are a fuckwit. No other word adequately describes you better. Love you too!!

  87. So Iain who are these Spiv(s)or a Shonk(s), please enlighten us all as to who these are, we would all like to know. Bolt, Jones, Palmer, Forrest, Robb, Hockey and the biggest Shonk goes to Abbott.

  88. Tom R @ 7:54 pm

    As such to get all upset about some shall we say “colourful” metaphors is really being just a bit to precious.

    I really think/know that a debate at a national level partaken by leaders within our community needs to lift themselves higher than just abusing each other with ‘“colourful” metaphors ‘ (the way that you diminish the actual content with such a description is abhorrent itself).

    I agree that in the best of all possible worlds our leaders should act with a certain level of decorum and grace and that they should try to elevate the level of debate. But when you have the government leading with its chin and you have senior ministers like Craig Emerson doing Karaoke versions of an old Skyhooks song its hardly a good start from your heroes. As for the comment that so offends you, please explain precisely why you are so rancorous about it. Is it the “old cow” reference (well you could hardly call Gillard a young heifer)or is it the suggestion that old an barren cows end up being beef mince? Do you read that as an actual death threat?

    These are our leaders ffs. The level of debate is dictated by them, and it flows on down through to the rest of the community as a result). At the moment, they (the conservatives) are dragging it down to an unacceptable level. Without any kind of leadership from someone who wants to be PM.

    Tell that to the Labor party, who never let a day go by without attempting to blame Tony Abbott for all of their woes rather than acting with dignity. Don’t you think that their mantra of “Tony did it Miss”
    lowers the debate all by its self?

    BTW, still no examples are forthcoming I note.

    The pictures in Dagonistas blog piece give you examples
    kitkat @ 8:14 pm

    No, seriously Iain, I am worried about you. Having had a brief look over your posts on this site, you truly come across as either a boy who has been listening to his dads card nights and taken what said as fact, or an easily lead moron. You argue until cornered and then change the point of discussion. You use straw-men better than Dorothy whilst falsely accusing accusing others of the same charge. You, my friend are a fuck-wit. No other word adequately describes you better. Love you too!!

    Well I wish that I was still young enough to deserve the “boy” epithet Oh and I’m glad that I have a place in your affections 😉

    Min @ 8:27 pm

    Tom, I agree. Ah for the days of classical rhetorical devices a la Paul Keating. 😉

    Sadly for Labor none of the latest crop of Labor MPs have Keating’s wit or biting sarcasm

    Miglo @ 8:47 pm

    Come back Paul. All is forgiven.

    Don’t say that Too loudly or the desperate ALP might just try to do it 🙂


    kitkat @ 8:59 pm

    How easily would this icon rip apart the coalition front bench? Where for art thou?

    Oh No KK its seems that you are using non-approved violent imagery and you will have Tom down on you like a ton of bricks which may or may not be to your liking! 😉

    paulwello @ 9:17 pm

    So Iain who are these Spiv(s)or a Shonk(s), please enlighten us all as to who these are, we would all like to know. Bolt, Jones, Palmer, Forrest, Robb, Hockey and the biggest Shonk goes to Abbott.

    I answered this question earlier

  89. TONY Abbott says Labor is yielding to an “authoritarian streak” to muzzle free speech through media regulation because it is unwilling to admit critical media coverage is the result of its own poor performance, not bias or malpractice.

    In a speech today, the Opposition Leader will warn that if the government proceeds with the creation of an appointed watchdog over the media, the body will become a “a political correctness enforcement agency” that would suppress inconvenient truths and hound journalists.

    And he will renew previous vows to repeal Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, which exposes people to prosecution if they cause offence to a person or a group of people on the grounds of race or ethnicity.

    Communications Minister Stephen Conroy is considering the findings of a report by former Federal Court judge Ray Finkelstein that proposes the establishment of a news media council backed by federal law to oversee print, online, radio and television news coverage.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-muzzling-press-to-hide-failings-tony-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226443472461

    The clubs are solving the gambling problem with poker machines. They are bringing Salvation Army Chaplains.

  90. He will note that despite China’s success in lifting millions of people out of poverty, it should liberalise its polity and suggest that if India, a democracy, was to overtake China as an emerging economic superpower, it would simply prove again that freedom, prosperity and strength reinforce each other.

    Turning to the Racial Discrimination Act, Mr Abbott will also renew his promise to repeal Section 18C, under which News Limited columnist Andrew Bolt was prosecuted last year for a column he wrote on the basis that it offended some indigenous people.

    While agreeing that humiliating or intimidating others on racial grounds is deplorable, he will argue that it is impossible to retain “a hurt-feelings test” as well as freedom of expression. “If free speech is to mean anything, it’s others’ right to say what you don’t like, not just what you do. It’s the freedom to write badly and rudely. It’s the freedom to be obnoxious and objectionable.”

    But he will say a Coalition government would maintain a prohibition on inciting hatred or intimidation of racial groups “akin to the ancient common-law prohibition in inciting hatred or fear”.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-muzzling-press-to-hide-failings-tony-ab

    bott/story-fn59niix-1226443472461

    He will also look after Bolt.

  91. In the best of all possible worlds our leaders
    should act with a certain level of decorum and
    grace and that they should try to elevate the
    level of debate. But when you have the `opposition`
    leading with its `mouth` and, you have senior
    ministers like Joe Hockey doing Black-Hole
    versions of a reasonable-economy its hardly a
    good start from your heroes.

    Sadly for Liberal, none of the latest crop of
    Liberal MPs have Keating’s wit or biting sarcasm.

    Tell `that` to Mr-Rabbit, who never lets a
    day go by without attempting to blame
    Boat-People for all of their woes, rather than
    acting with dignity.

    Don`t you think that their mantra of
    “Watch-Out Boat-People“ lowers the humanity
    all by its self?

  92. When one party is in bed with the hate media (or is that the other way round) standards of discourse are bound to plummet.

    Plus the Noalition are full of rage and spite at being denied their ‘rightful’ place on the government benches. And a leader like Abbott is the last one capable of civilising discourse.

  93. On the subject of policies on the run..so is the NDIS going to be funded by a Liberal government or isn’t it? Hockey = probably not because I haven’t a hope in Hades of balancing the books anyway. Robb = I better say yes we are, or else the public might think that we’re tight-arses who don’t give a sod about people with disabilities.

    OPPOSITION treasury spokesman Joe Hockey refuses to commit to funding the National Disability Insurance Scheme, saying the government itself has not fully backed the program.

    Opposition finance spokesman Andrew Robb has said the Coalition would fund the scheme, if elected, but it would come at a cost.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/hockey-wont-commit-to-disability-plan-20120805-23nww.html#ixzz22i8UF3cF

  94. Words just fail on that diatrade from ian. What a totally irrelevant rant. And still, no links.

    He even agrees that we should do better, but argues that it is Gillards fault she is called an ‘old cow’ because, well, she is one!

    What a vacant argument

  95. Catching up @ 7:20 am

    TONY Abbott says Labor is yielding to an “authoritarian streak” to muzzle free speech through media regulation because it is unwilling to admit critical media coverage is the result of its own poor performance, not bias or malpractice.

    Tony Abbott is spot on with this claim

    In a speech today, the Opposition Leader will warn that if the government proceeds with the creation of an appointed watchdog over the media, the body will become a “a political correctness enforcement agency” that would suppress inconvenient truths and hound journalists.

    Correct again!

    And he will renew previous vows to repeal Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, which exposes people to prosecution if they cause offence to a person or a group of people on the grounds of race or ethnicity.

    Another sound move

    Communications Minister Stephen Conroy is considering the findings of a report by former Federal Court judge Ray Finkelstein that proposes the establishment of a news media council backed by federal law to oversee print, online, radio and television news coverage.

    Hmm I wonder if the Latte Sippers here realise that blogs such as thsi would come under regulation in the Conroy scheme?

    Catching up @ 7:26 am

    He will also look after Bolt.

    Do you really want “hurt feelings” to determine what you and I can say in print?

    730reportland
    August 6, 2012 @ 7:27 am

    In the best of all possible worlds our leaders
    should act with a certain level of decorum and
    grace and that they should try to elevate the
    level of debate.

    But when you have the `opposition`
    leading with its `mouth` and, you have senior
    ministers like Joe Hockey doing Black-Hole
    versions of a reasonable-economy its hardly a
    good start from your heroes.

    We are talking about decorum and grace and you cite content as a counter argument? Hmm Me thinks that you need to do betetr than that.

    Sadly for Liberal, none of the latest crop of
    Liberal MPs have Keating’s wit or biting sarcasm.

    I tend to agree that is so However Christopher Pyne has some good quips from time to time.

    Tell `that` to Mr-Rabbit, who never lets a
    day go by without attempting to blame
    Boat-People for all of their woes, rather than
    acting with dignity.

    You are wrong, he blames Gillard and Labor

    Don`t you think that their mantra of
    “Watch-Out Boat-People“ lowers the humanity
    all by its self?

    No
    Cuppa @ 7:42 am

    When one party is in bed with the hate media (or is that the other way round) standards of discourse are bound to plummet.

    Plus the Noalition are full of rage and spite at being denied their ‘rightful’ place on the government benches. And a leader like Abbott is the last one capable of civilising discourse.

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    The Opposition may be full of Schadenfreude at the woes of the Gillard government but I am rather sure that they are happy enough that she drank from the poisoned chalice of minority government rather than them.
    Min @ 7:51 am

    On the subject of policies on the run..so is the NDIS going to be funded by a Liberal government or isn’t it? Hockey = probably not because I haven’t a hope in Hades of balancing the books anyway. Robb = I better say yes we are, or else the public might think that we’re tight-arses who don’t give a sod about people with disabilities.

    Hockey is right


    Tom R @ 8:00 am

    Words just fail on that diatribe from Iain. What a totally irrelevant rant. And still, no links.

    Although long my responses hardly qualify as a rant.

    He even agrees that we should do better, but argues that it is Gillards fault she is called an ‘old cow’ because, well, she is one!

    You really don’t have a sense of humour do you Tom?

  96. You really don’t have a sense of humour do you Tom?

    Sorry, thought we were having some kind of discussion over the depths our national debate should plunge before being called to order. Didn’t realise it was all such a joke to you.

    It really just confirms that your response is a ‘rant’, rather than a positive advancement in a discussion.

    I repeat, do you have examples of persons in a comparable level of public discourse that has said anything similar to the range of attacks on the PM, from being stuffed in a chaff bag, having targets drawn on their forehead, or simply just an ‘old cow’

    I know Bronnie Bishop copped it hard, particularity for her despicable treatment of the elderly under her watch. I don’t recall her being called ‘an old cow’ by a public commentator.

    I’m pretty sure some blogger may have done so. I am also pretty sure they were condemned for this

    Still no response from tabot I note on the ‘old cow’ statement, thereby lending to it his approval.

  97. Bolt’s biggest problem was not that he upset out Indigenous people, but he lied to do it. If he kept to the truth, there was no problem.

    We now have another plank in Mr. Abbott’s election campaign. The protection of the rich of powerful, the right to lie and Murdoch’s press.

  98. Tom R 11:00 am

    You really don’t have a sense of humour do you Tom?

    Sorry, thought we were having some kind of discussion over the depths our national debate should plunge before being called to order. Didn’t realise it was all such a joke to you.

    Tom have you never discussed politics in rather “expressive and exaggerated” terms?
    Come on be honest here have you never wished those you consider to be your political enemies suffer some terrible fate?
    Was that a tiny yes I hear?

    Well in the age of the internet when everything is widely circulated what does it surprise you that things such as the Cow analogy gets out there?

    But By way of comparison what about this one about John Howard?

    Prime Minister John Howard was visiting a primary school and he went into one of the classes.

    They were in the middle of a discussion related to words and their meanings.

    The teacher asked the Prime Minister if he would like to lead the discussion on the word “tragedy”. So the illustrious leader asked the class for an example of a “tragedy”.

    One little boy stood up and offered: “If my best friend, who lives on A farm, is playing in the field and a tractor runs over him and kills him, that would be a ‘tragedy'”.

    “No,” said Howard, “that would be an accident.”

    A little girl raised her hand: “If a school bus carrying fifty Children drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy.”

    “I’m afraid not,” explained the Prime Minister “That’s what we would call a great loss.”

    The room went silent. No other children volunteered.

    John Howard searched the room. “Isn’t there someone here who can give me an example of tragedy?”

    Finally, at the back of the room, little Johnny raised his hand…In a quiet voice he said: “If the aeroplane carrying you and Mrs Howard was struck by a “friendly fire” missile and blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy.

    “Fantastic!” exclaimed John Howard. “That’s right.

    And can you tell me why that would be a tragedy?”

    “Well,” says little Johnny “It has to be a tragedy, because it certainly wouldn’t be a great loss and it probably wouldn’t be a fu**ing accident either.”

    By your logic this too is evil because it wishes the PM dead and it likewise lowers the tone of the discourse So please explain how this Joke is substantively different to the one about Gillard.

    It really just confirms that your response is a ‘rant’, rather than a positive advancement in a discussion.

    I repeat, do you have examples of persons in a comparable level of public discourse that has said anything similar to the range of attacks on the PM, from being stuffed in a chaff bag, having targets drawn on their forehead, or simply just an ‘old cow’

    If you want more examples in a similar vein then there is this, and it uses animal imagery:

    John Howard and his chaffuer were driving along a country road and they accidently ran over a pig.
    John Howard sent his Chaffuer to the nearest farmhouse and told him to offer money for killing the animal, with his most sincere apoligies.

    The chaffuer is gone a very long time, and when he comes back he has a wad of money, 2 wine bottles and has lipstick all over his face.

    The chaffuer says to John Howard “I had a great time boss, you never would have belived it! The father of the family gave me a wad of money, the wife kept bringing me bottles of wine and the daughter made great, hot love to me repeatedly”
    Mr Howard asks the chaffuer “What do you mean? i cant belive it! DId you tell the family what i told you to say?”

    “Sure did boss” says the chaffuer “I went to the door and said ‘gday, im John Howards chaffuer and i just ran over the pig!”

    I know Bronnie Bishop copped it hard, particularity for her despicable treatment of the elderly under her watch. I don’t recall her being called ‘an old cow’ by a public commentator.

    I don’t think that she was either but she was often the butt of political jokes none the less. And you know what the sky di not fall.

    I’m pretty sure some blogger may have done so. I am also pretty sure they were condemned for this

    Why are you sure that such jokes would have been condemned?

    Still no response from tabot I note on the ‘old cow’ statement, thereby lending to it his approval.

    If he knows about it why should eb be obliges to even acknowledge its existence let alone denounce it?

  99. Should Freedom of speech, allow abuse of speech?

    Why does the freedom of speech, unlike all other freedoms not entail responsibilities?

    Mr. Abbott has told us that lies and misfacts are OK.

    Mr. Abbott believes that the price we pay for free speech, is the right of all to lie.

    Mr. Abbott then goes on with a litany of crimes by this government, based on lies and misfacts.

  100. Catching up

    Should Freedom of speech, allow abuse of speech?

    What precisely do you define as “abuse of speech”?

    Why does the freedom of speech, unlike all other freedoms not entail responsibilities?

    Because as soon as you put limits upon what can be said then we cease to be free.

    Mr. Abbott has told us that lies and misfacts are OK.

    He has? When? where?

    Mr. Abbott believes that the price we pay for free speech, is the right of all to lie.

    Of course we all have the “right” to lie CU but we also have the right to have those falsehoods denounced as well.

    Mr. Abbott then goes on with a litany of crimes by this government, based on lies and misfacts.

    What on earth is a “misfact”?

    Would ‘there will be no carbon tax under a government that I lead “ qualify?

  101. Tom @11.00am and Still no response from tabot I note on the ‘old cow’ statement, thereby lending to it his approval.

    Which is yet another example of how Abbott lowers the standard. Think what we may about John Howard, but Howard would have made a point in distancing himself from such statements. There is not a chance that Howard would stood in front of a sign stating Bob Brown’s b*tch.

  102. So please explain how this Joke is substantively different to the one about Gillard.

    Has a leading commentator, businessman or political opponent used it in the course of the national debate?

  103. So, no-one can sue bolt for writing factually incorrect statements and passing that off as the truth, yet tabot is free to do the same against those who have done what bolt did to others.

    Mind you, I agree tabot should be allowed to do that. I also agree that bolt should as well.

  104. Tom, there were some rumours going around at the time of the Bolt racial discrimination that Abbott is going to be doing Bolt several favours..just as as “thank you”. Bolt, Gina and Abbott..all scratching each other’s backs.

  105. This is the reality of Tony Abbott’s turn back the boats. I always get the feeling that what Abbott is doing is trying to give the impression that turning back a boat in the high seas is a bit like a road block on a country road..just make’em turn around.

    Given Abbott’s statement of “only when safe to do so”, then the vessel must be boarded and these sort of assessments made. Terrific/not when you have a boat load of desperate people knowing that their vessel might be turned back to whence it came…with navy personnel considerably outnumbered.

    Chief Petty Officer Norton said the boat was destroyed after its passengers and crew were processed on Christmas Island.

    “This particular vessel was unseaworthy,” he said.

    “It had broken railing, the caulking between the timbers was soft, there was the possibility of pests and borers and quarantine issues.”

    http://www.news.com.au/national/asylum-boat-so-crowded-navy-couldnt-board-district-court-of-south-australia-told/story-fndo4dzn-1226443985892

  106. How does this fit in with Mr. Abbott’s condemnation of the PM this morning. Do I have it wrong once again. It is one law for Abbott, another for Labor. It is about what I say, not do.

    …………Abbott And Costello Defamation Action

    This is the full text of Mr. Justice Higgins’ Judgement in the Abbott and Costello Defamation Action Against Random House, Publishers of Bob Ellis’ “Goodbye, Jerusalem”
    March 5, 1999
    The Hon. Peter Howard Costello and Tanya Pamela Costello v Random House
    Australia Pty Limited
    and
    The Hon. Anthony John Abbott and Margaret
    Veronica Abbott v Random House Australia Pty Limited
    [1999]
    ACTSC 13
    Defamation….

    http://australianpolitics.com/executive/howard/pre-2002/golddiggers.shtml

  107. ow does this fit in with Mr. Abbott’s condemnation of the PM this morning.

    Do as I say, not what I do

Leave a Comment

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s