Our ABC: has it lost the meaning of respect or is it just following the political discourse?

Long-time blogger Mobius Ecko, amongst others, often produces thoughtful comments that are worthy of a post on their own. He produced one such comment here recently when raising questions on the ABC’s noted lack of respect to the current Prime Minister and compared it to the elevated amount of respect they always showed former Prime Minister, John Howard.  Mobius commented:

Annabel Crabb defended the Drum on ABC24 in a Tweet when a series of criticisms against it’s blatant right wing bias was highlighted. She said the left criticise it for having too many from the right on and the right criticise it for having too many of the left on, so it must be balanced.

Wrong on many fronts, not the least being the right always accuse everyone and anything slightly left of Joseph de Maistre as being rabid pinkos and socialists.

You only need look at the many right wing posters who state the ABC is left wing biased, when since Howard gutted it, it clearly tilts right.

To give an illustration of how unreasonably locked into their warped ideological view they are in believing everything but themselves are communist/socialist and out to destroy their sacred way of life, once in an interview with Howard where he was called Mr. Howard or Prime Minister throughout and got by any measure an easy run, the ABC received a bunch of complaints saying their was not enough respect paid to the office of the Prime Minister and the questioning was too forceful and the wrong questions were asked.

Truth is it matters not what Howard was asked or how well he was treated by the ABC, the ABC would have received those complaints.

On the other hand it seems that trashing and denigrating the respect for the office of the Prime Minister and courtesy to the PM is now not only OK but to be encouraged, and I would not be surprised if it’s the same people who complained about no respect for the PM and PM Office’s under Howard. And these same people will complain if Abbott is PM and is called he, or Tony or Abbott or anything else other than, “Your greatness, Mr Abbott the magnificent Prime Minister.”

The duplicity of the right never ceases to amaze me in it’s blatancy and enormous scope.

James of Adelaide noted that this media approach is not limited to Australian. Indeed, it has been adopted from the American model.

I’ve seen this before: The great respect for the office when occupied by someone clearly not up to the task, followed by denigration of the clearly appropriate individual and denigration of the office. This behaviour comes from the USA, as does the political tactic of trying to make parliament dysfunction so as to blame it on the other side. Thank you, Republicans. I’m not sure where manufacturing scandals to damage the other side come from, perhaps the Liberals thought of it themselves.

It begs the question: Has the ABC lost the meaning of respect or is it just following the political discourse? A discourse, it seems, being set by the Republicans in America and the Liberals in Australia where respect is ignored even if earned, yet handed out to the undeserving few.

Locally, the performances by the ABC hosts on the 7:30 Report, Lateline and Insiders demonstrate that respect is selective. Disrespect appears to be dished out by the bucket loads.

What do you think?

86 comments on “Our ABC: has it lost the meaning of respect or is it just following the political discourse?

  1. The ABC no longer holds respect. It no longer the great training institution for journalism it was once.

    It is no longer about news.

    I did not believe I could say this, as a life long supporter, I would not care if it disappeared.

    In truth, it already has.

  2. I totally agree…as I said recently, let’s all get really bloody upset when someone calls an Olympic swimmer fat….but say absolutely nothing when main stream media and co are calling our prime minister every name under the sun! Hypocrites!!!!!!!

  3. Always was Howard called Mr. Prime Minister..in fact I can recall a few here being quite delighted to be able to call him Former Prime Minister John Howard.

    I can honestly say that I have never heard Ms. Gillard called Madam Prime Minister.

  4. Min, she was introduced by that title recently. It might have been the Indonesians. It was about that time.

    That was the only time I have heard it used.

    The norm is she she

  5. Migs,
    I agree and for some time have indicated my disgust of the abc which is still NOT worth capitals. I keep telling my lad to sort them out no success so far. These days I do not watch any of its so called “news” programs preferring to go to the Internet and the blogs.

  6. Forget the medals…Bring our kids home… . Why should our young men and women be risking their lives in Afghanistan protecting the wealth of greedy mining barons. The richest people on earth, V The poorest people on earth. Terrorism in any form is wrong but we should be asking ourselves, Who ARE the real terrorists. Trillions of dollars in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan The ore deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into the most important mining center in the world,.. PLUS, Rare volcanic rocks in the rugged, dangerous desert of southern Afghanistan has world-class concentrations of rare earth elements, the prized group of raw materials that are essential in the manufacture of many modern technologies,

    A lot of people don’t seem to have any idea why we’re fighting a war in Afghanistan. The answer is very simple—Resources: Afghanistan is an absolute ‘Aladdin’s Cave’ of mineral resources. spending $100-500+ billion to secure resources worth untold $ trillions, makes extremely good economic sense. It’s obvious why the US and UK Governments are prepared to invest all this money and soldier’s lives in the war. If the conflict with the Taliban can ever be stabilised, then the Afghans/We, can start to exploit their country’s vast resources, . THE AUSTRALIAN Parliament and justice system is now completely controlled (or soon will be) by the media and mining barons and democracy is dead in this country…

    Rare earth; 101 elements more valuable than gold… China’s Grip Tightens on Rare Earth Metals

    http://www.trilogy-am.com/files/china_grip_rare_earth_metals.pdf

    File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – Quick View
    12 Jul 2011 – Rare Earth 101 Five elements more valuable than gold. Free rare earth investor rpt. EnergyandCapital.com/Rare_Earth. Rare Earth Stocks …

  7. Mr Abbott, gospel truth, ”Who needs policies” (costed, detailed or otherwise)” when we have news ltd,the ABC and the mining barons.

  8. We are a nation that values informality and egalitarianism so why is anyone surprised that journalists, including those at the ABC don’t tug their forelocks and show excessive obsequiousness to our leaders?
    What do you expect when the Pollies themselves suggest informality? Does no one remember Rudd’s ” I’m Kevin and I’m here to help?”
    Frankly all of the deference to leaders is a hangover from previous age when kings thought that God had made them better than their subjects do those on the left really want to revive that?

  9. John Howard was mediocrity personified, but he did decide that an impartial ABC was something Australia no longer needed in the modern corporatist environment that he ushered in.
    Now That weak kneed slobberer, Tiny Abbott insists that he is to become pope of Australia.
    It is like a bad comedy only no one is laughing.
    This country is becoming a nation of whinging children demanding everything is done for them whilst demanding government stay out of their lives.
    5 more years and these same people will claim they were deceived.

  10. I would probably be one of my ABCs biggest critics on the web and will support comments regarding how timid my ABC is and continually allowing itself to be dragged around by the nose by the Holt Street billy-goats and, re-echoing the Limited-News direction of news themes and, so forth.

    But, disrespect for the `office`, `politicians`, `prime-meddler` `parliament` or any other such claims is just bogus. The biggest producers of `disrespect` of politicians is NOT, my ABC, the public, bloggers, or even Limited-News, but the politicians themselves and the bullshit they try to peddle.

  11. Howard ended up having three enquiries into the ABC, one that was completely stacked by Alston, and not one found bias against the Howard government with the main one finding there was a bias slightly for the Howard government and against the Labor opposition.

    Howard put in place an oversight whose head I believe was on around $250k/pa and all news and reports coming out of the ABC had to be vetted before they could be aired/printed. He also stacked the board as we all know, where two members were openly hostile to the ABC and one who wanted it shut down. The ramifications of that are still being felt today.

    I wish this government would hold an enquiry on the ABC today under exactly the same terms as Howard’s using the same committee and chair so there could be no claims of stacking or non-independence. I sincerely believe the results of an enquiry such as that would shock many out there as to just how biased the ABC has become for the Abbott opposition, for big business interests and lobbies and against the Gillard government and workers’ interests.

  12. Ten years or so ago I was one of the most fierce outspoken defenders of the ABC you’d find anywhere. Now I’m among its most outspoken critics. And it’s not me who’s changed. The ABC has gone from being a non-political public broadcaster of world-class standard to something shoddy, partisan and agenda-driven.

    I agree with Mobius’ comment: the government needs to hold an enquiry into the organisation – to find how it went so seriously off the rails and is allowed to stay off track in its hourly operations in defiance of its charter and editorial policies.

  13. has it lost the meaning of respect or is it just following the political discourse?

    imo, the two are the same. The ABC (and any reputable reporting outlet) is not there merely to mirror what it happening in hte discourse, it is there to HOLD THEM TO ACCOUNT.

    The ABC’s catch-cry phrase ‘the opposition leader says’ is NEVER examined in the light of the truthfullness of what is said, just repeated. So, it becomes a game of whover repeats the bullshit most, become correct. it becomes, as Colbert called it, Truthiness.

    If a politician says something wrong, correct them. I just watched Swan on the &30 null the other night, and saw sales leap into him, on several occasions, trying to get a ‘gotcha’. The one that struck me was when she interupted and said somehting about,
    “if you attack the mining billionaires, why not Kate Blanchette(?)”

    All it did was interrupt his answer to the previous question. That alone could/should have been a stand alone question, and it wasn’t correcting anything he said, merely attempting the gotcha, and interupting his answer. Compare that to tabots recent appearance with Cassidy, where he was allowed not only to get away with not even answering questions, but was also allowed to simply repeat his monotonous, and highly innacurate, slogans in place of one. Unchallenged

    Sorry, but ‘ just following the political discourse’ means that ‘it lost the meaning of respect’

    And it has done both

  14. Cuppa, seems to be more than a lifetime ago where the ABC promoted up and coming Australian talent, not just journalists but to do with all of the arts. I am thinking of the number of actors who received their start via the ABC, I am thinking of the quality locally produced programs.

  15. Just to add.

    If you need a definitive indication of the ABC’s bending to the favour of the opposition in the name of balance then just count the number of time the ABC prefaces or expands any political, and indeed some non-political, pieces with “The opposition says”, “Tony Abbott/opposition leader says”, “such and such shadow minister says”, “insert name here right wing group says”, “right wing industry group says”.

    Look at any of their news/current affair promos or graphic lead-ins. Abbott will feature prominently and favourably whereas Gillard is given a secondary and unfavourable treatment. They did the same for Rudd.

    Then in the pieces themselves the government is usually shown second or third hand whereas Abbott and/or an opposition spokesman is shown first hand in person and given complete right of reply and allowed to make unchallenged statements that are never referred back to the government for response or repudiation.

    The other telling point is the ABC’s use of Twitter to promote Abbott’s stuntspress conferences, where the ABC will Tweet often about an upcoming Abbott press conference and then Tweet when it’s on, but don’t seem to do the same for Gillard, where one mention of an upcoming presser seems to be sufficient.

    This all comes about because the opposition have an active zombie troll army who on orders are ready to pounce on the ABC if they don’t show their man or party enough. Also Abbott has a PR outfit that constantly harangue the ABC about showing Abbott and then jump on the ABC if Abbott doesn’t get a favourable and fluff treatment.

    If Gillard or the government were to attempt that the backlash would be fierce, so they are hamstrung, but it is up to the ABC to curtail the demands of showing Abbott in the name of balance when they are doing no such thing.

    The fault lays squarely with the ABC.

    And if they say they are being balanced, then prove it by having an enquiry that did what Howard’s did. Look at the time spent on each party, whether that time was favourable or unfavourable, the way each is presented in promos, graphics and sound bites and even down to the inflection and body language of the interviewer/reporter at the time.

    If the ABC is being balanced as they claim, like Annabel Crabb did, then they would have nothing to worry about and would openly encourage such an enquiry.

  16. Alas even Four Corners has stopped undertaking any serious enquiry and dwells more in the uncontroversial (eg. not Australian) and trivial. How about some really excellent investigative journalism on the Slippper machinations and the HSU/Thomson stuff, or the increasing focus by the Coalition on this mythical beast the ‘Anglosphere’ and its apparent isolationism from the Asia/India region.
    Where have all the quality journalist gone?

  17. I can see a downward spiral with the ABC. The more that they promote Tony Abbott, the fewer readers they have from the left side of politics. With the high standard now being promoted by the alternative media, can the ABC risk alienating what would have once been their major democraphic..we lefties.

    It seems that the answer to the above question is Yes they can, hence the reason for the great dumbing down, that is, this is to try to appeal to populism in order to try to regain readership and viewers, with this coming from the non-thinking section of the public.

  18. Min, I get the impression the ABC is going out of its way to actively piss off its core support demographic. So when the time comes that a conservative government movesx to shut it down or sell it off, there won’t be a voice of protest raised from right or left.

  19. Cuppa, conspiracy theory # squillion I know but the thought occurred that unless the ABC actively promotes Abbott that heads might roll in the future. I wonder if Tim Dunlop will keep his job. 😦

  20. There’s no doubt an element of that too Min. However the ABC was boosting the hell out of Turnbull too when the likelihood of him winning an election was minimal.

    “Without fear or favour” – a fundamental of professional journalistic practice – even that basic seems to be out of reach of their abc.

  21. Yes, Cuppa @9.19 – I see it that way too.
    I`m glad I`m not the only one who remembers Ruperts
    “shut down the BBC and ABC tour“ a few years ago.
    Stacked ABC boardroom playing into Ruperts hands.

  22. I mean, if they weren’t intentionally seeking to piss off the progressive audience, why would they have that grinning goon Peter Reith on there every five minutes – he of the balaclavas and attack dogs.

  23. 7.30reportland

    good to see Rupert’s very own board rooms could be facing scrutiny by the British Courts.
    And if the British courts are interested the next could be the USA. The US supposedly don’t like their companies being caught out messing with foreign governments.

  24. So, when the ABC is privatised, both the left and right will have nothing to whinge about as both sides reckon it is biased.

    I don’t watch much ABC but I do enjoy reading the commentary on blogs from both sides screeching which indicates it is not biased. Same goes for Fairfax and News which I read and enjoy.

    I did enjoy Hedley Thomas’ articles today relating to Blewitt, Wilson and Gillard. Wrote here a week or two ago that he was onto it and there is a lot more to come. Had a chat to Hedley a while ago about politics, he gives no side any ground and has a similar outlook as mine.

    But I suppose the usual suspects will somehow imagine he is working in cahoots with the coalition. Hedley exposed the coalition over the Haneef Affair so I’d like to see the suspects try to spin it.

    Why should a PM be accorded blind respect? Lucky that the media is taking it up to the PM as no one of the left is holding her to account. Leading? You do realise that she is controlled whilst Abbott is managed?

  25. Scaper, those who manage Abbott must surely cringe when he comes out with all those brain farts of his.

  26. Ros, like herding possums I am led to believe. Got a nice file happening and will use it in the future. Not to bolster the left but an attempt to realise the vision.

  27. I blame the ABC for pioneering the “they’re all as bad as each other” manoeuvre. Examples aren’t hard to find, one being “both sides are squabbling…” & when this tactic’s deployed you can be sure that Labor’s got one in & the damage has to be minimised.
    As for the ABC overall, I agree with C.U. I never thought I’d say it either but these days it wouldn’t worry me all that much if it were flogged off. Which is what I think will happen. It would be nice to try to defend it but I think it’s too late. It will play its part in the probable installation of an Abbott gopvernment & then be disposed of.
    Keep the FM stations that play nice music.

    P.S. the spelling “gopvernment” was a typo but I’ve left it because it looks quite good, I think. A harbinger of things to come…

  28. Hey!..scaper writes his little list…licks tip of pencil, bites down on tounge and decides to get serious….writes ; “I’ve got all bases covered!…oh yes!, they’ll have to go a long way to put one over on me!”…places pencil down, looks at what he has written..is thrilled!
    scaper is a man with vision.

  29. Lucky that the media is taking it up to the PM as no one of the left is holding her to account.

    😯

    You obviously don’t read Crikey or New Matilda do you?

    But, there is ‘taking it up’, and then there is totally biased leaning. Take Latika Bourke ‏@latikambourke. I understand that she is just a Twit(ter), but today, Wayne Swan did a news conference. She did ONE tweet about it. For a tabot presser, there is a string of tweets.

    Worst still, this one tweet was followed, in quick succession, of a comment from hockey, 3 from tabot, and one from Warren Truss.

    She then spent most of the rest of the day cracking jokes about the gossip piece about Shorten and the pie, instead of what was actually happening on the policy front.

    And she gets paid for this shit!

    I had to post this halfway through her tirade. I’m thinking it is almost time to stop following her. Sometimes she’s good, but so often, it is just partisan crap from her, simply pushing the oppositions agenda

  30. Why should a PM be accorded blind respect?

    They shouldn’t be accorded blind respect, they should be accorded the respect that comes with the office. howard got it, even after lying to our faces and then dragging us off into an illegal war. Gillard has done nothing to warrant the kind of treatment she is receiving, and few, even howard, have done anything deserving of this

    THE chief executive of Australia’s largest beef cattle company has compared the Prime Minister to an “non-productive old cow” in an Adelaide speech about the future of agribusiness.

    http://www.indaily.com.au/?iid=66169&sr=0&startpage=1&readmore=Old+cow+insult+for+PM+Gillard#folio=1

  31. Scaper, for a moment there I thought you meant the Monte you’d been sucking on. My first reaction was NOT AFTER IT’D BEEN IN YOUR MOUTH. :mrgreen:

  32. Every time I come to read the comments on this thread I expect to read what I always plan to say in response to your question, Miglo. I think it is no longer ‘our’ ABC and I think it has it lost the meaning of respect and most of the time it tags along just following the political discourse, led by News Ltd.

    I don’t agreee with 7.30 Report’s sweeping statement that all politicians are to blame for the lack of respect. There are decent individuals on both sides, but particularly on the government and cross benches, with their heads down working hard at running the country, and doing it well, particularly our Prime Minister.

  33. ME @8.05am, I wish the government would just gut the ABC and restock it with real journos who have integrity, honesty, scruples, principles, sincerity, veracity and all those other positive attributes not possessed by any of the oxygen thieves at the ABC.

    Ah yes. Enema Alberici, well she has that effect on me. I saw that “interview” with Roxon and just wanted to slap the silly bitch. Another one who thinks an interview is all about them.

    God knows why they bother to have an interviewee.

    Abbott is neither controlled or managed. He’s kept on a very short leash.

    Pity they didn’t include a muzzle.

  34. Either the ABC. journos are thick as two short planks, gutless or in collusion with the management to discredit the sitting govt’ which makes them accomplices in sedition……..Charge the bastards!!

  35. “Want a taste”

    Mack, if I were you, I would keep my head well below the parapet. You have a long history of abusive comments, physical threats and the like.

    Want a taste? LOL!

  36. You know what. I’ve known scaper for, what is it scaps must be 5 years and we’ve had massive run ins. However, I don’t enjoy condescension whether it be from the left or the right, so shall we stop. There is a big difference between irony/humour, and nastiness. I don’t enjoy reading the later from which ever side of the political divide. Shall we now all start playing the ball and not the man…

    Don’t like it, well you can all tell me to piss off..again..

  37. Sue @Aug03 @11.30am

    Yes, it is good to see the UK stand up to Rupert and friends, finally.

    But I don`t think the usa will be interested.
    Florida-2000 and Iraq-2002-Lobbying have shown
    the usa media is heavily Foxified.
    One merely has to view a few hysteric
    foxnews clips on youtube to understand how
    far gone, and how embedded the usa media is.
    I hold no hope for them.

  38. Patriciawa @03Aug @7.55pm

    So you feel that politicians are `more-often`….

    Respectful in parliament?
    Question time is about informing public, not playing `gotcha`?
    Door-stops don`t become personal attacks?

  39. Tom R @ 7:28 pm

    Why should a PM be accorded blind respect?

    They shouldn’t be accorded blind respect, they should be accorded the respect that comes with the office. Howard got it, even after lying to our faces and then dragging us off into an illegal war. Gillard has done nothing to warrant the kind of treatment she is receiving, and few, even Howard, have done anything deserving of this

    Oh come off it Tom, her tenure in the Lodge has been regularly punctuated by good reasons for the people not to respect her, starting with knifing Rudd closely followed by “there will be no Carbon tax under a government I lead” followed by the “Timor/ Malaysian/ no bloody idea at all” solutions to illegal boat arrivals, the real, extra super real, Julia. Heck every day brings forth new reasons not to respect this woeful administration. Howard got the respect because even when he did things that you cite it was very clear that he was acting from conviction and principle but Gillard has neither and she continually brings the office into disrepute.
    You seem to be forgetting that respect has to be earned and Gillard has done nothing to earn our respect.

  40. @Iain Hall
    You will have your little joke Iain. How can a man who, without prior warning, divided his election promises into “core” and “non-core” after winning office be worthy of anyone’s respect? It would be interesting indeed to ascertain how many of Mr Howard’s “non-core” promises ever came to fruition.

  41. Gillard has done nothing to earn our respect.

    Except for

    • Helped save Thousands of jobs during the GFC
    • Put in a Carbon Price, as promised prior to the election, putting Australia back at the forefront of environmental issues
    • Grown our economy in the aftermath of the GFC where most others have languished
    • Implementing a Plain Packaging plan that is being adopted in many countries world-wide
    • Upheld IR laws that have not only helped see our economy grow, but also helped protect the most vulnerable workers
    • Done all of this without resorting to abuse and petty name calling

    Just for a small sample of why the PM deserves some respect. Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean that you must treat them with contempt. Which appears to be the new debating tactics for the opposition, and other conservatives.

  42. Tom. if one listens to Mr. Abbott today, that is what free speech is about. The right to lie and abuse.

    It appears that free speech is a freedom without responsibility.

  43. Trev@ 2:08 pm

    @Iain Hall

    You will have your little joke Iain. How can a man who, without prior warning, divided his election promises into “core” and “non-core” after winning office be worthy of anyone’s respect? It would be interesting indeed to ascertain how many of Mr Howard’s “non-core” promises ever came to fruition.

    And you are talking about John Howard why precisely? Or do you believe that he and Tony Abbott are one and the same person

    Tom R @ 2:26 pm

    Gillard has done nothing to earn our respect.

    Well lets check out what you claim deserves respect

    • Helped save Thousands of jobs during the GFC

    That was On Rudd’s watch if I recall correctly but given the sloppy way things like the school halls and Pink batts schemes were devised and administered it deserved very little respect.

    • Put in a Carbon Price, as promised prior to the election, putting Australia back at the forefront of environmental issues

    This one is a joke right? You are having a lend of me by making this claim aren’t you? Ok lest assume you are serious how can implementing a Carbon tax that she specifically ruled out prior to the election make her worthy of any respect whatsoever?

    • Grown our economy in the aftermath of the GFC where most others have languished

    You are attributing that To Gillard? Strewth you lefties draw very long bows! How can she claim any credit when its all about the mining boom and a big surplus inherited from Howard?

    • Implementing a Plain Packaging plan that is being adopted in many countries world-wide

    Not a fan of tobacco so I’ll sort of give you that one except that it was my understanding that that too was an idea that appeared on Rudd’s watch rather than Gillard’s

    • Upheld IR laws that have not only helped see our economy grow, but also helped protect the most vulnerable workers

    “fair work Australia” is, to be generous, rather like the curates egg only good in parts

    • Done all of this without resorting to abuse and petty name calling

    You are kidding right?

    Just for a small sample of why the PM deserves some respect. Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean that you must treat them with contempt. Which appears to be the new debating tactics for the opposition, and other conservatives.

    Gillard Lost me entirely with her unnecessary back-flip on the Carbon tax promise and I know many others who feel the same way about her. That was in itself contemptible but what was worse was her disgraceful attempts to claim that she was not breaking her undertaking to the people. You lot are fond of talking about Tony Abbott’s so called “Brain farts” but there are no greater “brain farts” than Gillard’s attempts to solve the Asylum seeker issue.and that is precisely why Gillard deserves no respect whatsoever.

  44. I am amazed of the ability of some to keep defending their position, by keeping on making statements, that have been proved to be incorrect. There was NO lie.

    There is no carbon tax, There is a cost on carbon emissions.

    What is true, we have one of the best economies in the world. Labor has been power, since 2007.

  45. • Helped save Thousands of jobs during the GFC

    Note the term ‘helped’ there ian 😉 And as she was in charge of the BER project, which, by all measures, except for the oo’s completely fabricated version of events, was a huge success.

    • Put in a Carbon Price, as promised prior to the election, putting Australia back at the forefront of environmental issues

    I never tire of putting this one up 😉

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

    • Grown our economy in the aftermath of the GFC where most others have languished

    Considering most of this comes about because we still had most people employed, and the resource sector, which had its own little recession, was able to tap straight into this supply, then yes, I credit the current Government with a great deal of that success.

    • Upheld IR laws that have not only helped see our economy grow, but also helped protect the most vulnerable workers

    Yes, we do have a more level playing field now for workers, and yet still plenty of room for bargaining.

    • Done all of this without resorting to abuse and petty name calling

    I’m sure that you will soon lavish us with the numerous times Gillard has abused tabot? You know, target on his forehead, Gina’s Bitch, that kind of stuff. Still waiting ………………… zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  46. Re the Carbon Price “promise” Iain. Firstly, what Ms Gillard actually said on August 20, 2010:

    In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

    “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”

    This is the strongest message Ms Gillard has sent about action on carbon pricing.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

    Secondly, have you read the legislation? If you do, you’ll discover it’s not actually a tax, but a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme.

    103 A carbon unit is personal property

    A carbon unit is personal property and, subject to sections 105 and 106, is transmissible by assignment, by will and by devolution by operation of law.

    103A Ownership of carbon unit

    (1) The registered holder of a carbon unit:

    (a) is the legal owner of the unit; and

    (b) may, subject to this Act and the Australian National Registry of Emissions Units Act 2011, deal with the unit as its legal owner and give good discharges for any consideration for any such dealing.

    (2) Subsection (1) only protects a person who deals with the registered holder of the unit as a purchaser:

    (a) in good faith for value; and

    (b) without notice of any defect in the title of the registered holder.

    Doesn’t sound like a tax to me!

    http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2011B00166

    So it’s a bit like your driving license – you buy a permit from the government to allow you to drive a motor vehicle on public roads. Similarly, those who choose to continue releasing carbon in some form into the atmosphere from their endeavours, can buy permits from the government to allow them to do this. For the first three years the price is fixed – after that, it moves to a variable price. ie. it’s a price on carbon, exactly as Ms Gillard said she’d introduce prior to the election….

  47. Bacchus, I have a feeling that Iain might have a problem with short term memory loss..I’m certain that we’ve said all of this before. 😉

  48. Mr-Rabbit Lost me entirely with his unnecessary
    non-core Platinium Child-Care promise and I know
    that it has no hope of being afforded.
    That was in itself contemptible but what is worse
    is his disgraceful attempts to claim that he is
    not going to return to Work-Choice.
    You`lot` are fond of talking about Mr-Rabbits
    Brain-Farts, but there is no greater “brain fart”
    than Mr-Talkbulls attempts to solve the NBN issue.
    And precisely why does Mr-Poodle deserve
    any respect whatsoever?

  49. I’m certain that we’ve said all of this before
    I’m certain that we’ve said all of this before
    I’m certain that we’ve said all of this before
    I’m certain that we’ve said all of this before

    You could be correct there Min 😉

    But don’t worry, ian won’t let lefty garbage like facts and evidence get in the way of his deep rooted ideologies that he calls reality.

    ‘I don’t like it, so it didn’t happen’

    Actually, he sounds a bit like the Canberra press gallery

  50. lol @ Min & Tom…

    Iain & “Tweed” have also mentioned that the price on carbon can’t possibly do anything to reduce our carbon footprint. Perhaps they should ask our industries who are actually doing something about the veracity of their claims:

    http://www.kimberly-clark.com.au/en/sustainability/planet/climate-change-global-warming.aspx

    Sustainability 2015 Goal to address climate change

    While we appreciate we still have work to do to address climate change, we’re proud to announce that Kimberly-Clark has developed our first goal to reduce greenhouse gases (GHG) and carbon emissions on an absolute basis. Kimberly-Clark’s desire to develop a global climate change management strategy is based on our understanding of the science of climate change and an awareness of the changing regulatory environment surrounding GHGs.

    As a global organisation we’ve pledged to reduce our absolute total greenhouse gas emissions by 5 percent by 2015 – a challenging but necessary goal – even as we are projected to grow our business.

    Locally within Kimberly-Clark Australia and New Zealand we’re proud to stretch our climate change targets even further with our 2015 goal being to achieve a 30% absolute reduction in carbon dioxide emissions from FY11 levels.

    Our global climate change strategy also includes details of sustainable energy management, responsible and sustainable water use and reduced carbon emissions across the Kimberly-Clark global organisation.

    This is just one company – multiply this by the 500 companies who have to buy carbon units… Savvy managers won’t take too long to cotton onto ways to reduce the cost of their permits.

  51. Generally Tony Abbott’s words have shed little light on how he would govern in practical terms (by design, no doubt) but in today’s speech at the Institute of Public Affairs, Abbott’s view is clear: he stands with Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones, Gina Rinehart and the big media proprietors against any form of media regulation.
    The speech is a stale collection of bogey-words and phrases (“thought police”, “political correctness enforcement agency”); false equivalences (“If it’s all right for David Marr to upset conservative Christians, why is it not all right for Bolt to upset activist Aborigines?”); and straw-man arguments against media regulations which haven’t even been proposed.
    Abbott uses ‘free speech’ as his banner to march under. In Australia, strictly speaking, there is no such thing. The right to free speech is limited by laws against religious, sexual and racial vilification, for instance. And relevant to the Bolt case, which seems to animate Abbott in particular, free speech does not include publishing lies that racially offend, as was found to be the case by the court.
    But this is mere detail, right?

    http://www.yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/node/20044

  52. @Iain
    ” Heck every day brings forth new reasons not to respect this woeful administration. Howard got the respect because even when he did things that you cite it was very clear that he was acting from conviction and principle but Gillard has neither and she continually brings the office into disrepute”.

    Iain I merely respond to your recent comment about the respect John Howard enjoyed while he was in office.

    I’m sorry, but I was unaware of the problem you seem to have with your short-term memory. Worth consulting someone about perhaps?

  53. I have not seen this mornings news but heard Sabre Lane on early AM. According to Sabre their has been a “bounce” in Newspoll towards Labor of 5 points. And Sabre’s in depth analysis that she provided to the audience:
    “well the PM, Ms Gillard has been on holiday, maybe she should take more;
    a Labor backbencher has said, what else would you expect it had no where to go but up;
    there is still an error margin of 3, and anyway on the 2 party preferred “She” would be wiped out at the next election”

    Sabre did concede that just possibly the “win” by Ms Gillard on the NDIS just before she went on holiday “may have helped”

    Thanks Sabre, I suppose that your ‘in depth analysis’ was lifted straight from somenone at the Australian, just as is your reliance of a Newspoll for ‘in depth political analysis’ by an ABC journalist.

  54. Thanks Tom R
    I also had a look at Newspoll
    http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/08/07/1226444/424606-0708-newspoll.pdf

    It would be better for the ABC journalists to go to the poll if they must report on it. If they did then the journalists that write Gillard off should be worried about the group named ‘others’ sitting at double at what it was at the 2010 election because it is from this group that the biggest move to labor occurred. And if Gillard picked up another 6 points from here than…….those political journalists may be left wondering.

  55. Howard respected, not that is a joke.

    Howard was never respected and polls showed that. Apart from the Howardistas he was not admired and polling said the people thought him untrustworthy.

    He was just a do nothing bloated noise people tolerated in a time of plenty.

  56. And in my opinion Mobius, Howard lead the most heartless government in Australia’s history.

    I can still remember the sense of revulsion I felt at Costello’s gutting of the health and education sectors as he rolled out his first budget. And that self-satisfied smirk as though this destruction represented some form of achievement!

  57. @ Iain Hall
    “When our PM herself invites us to be informal with her why would you expect her to be treated with and deference at all?”

    Sigh….. Iain why do you bother to comment my friend? Surely the answer to your question is perfectly obvious. Try replacing the word “deference” with the more appropriate word “courtesy” and all may become clear.

  58. And this is proof the ABC has lost it’s way if only it could recognise that they have brought this upon themselves.
    Yesterday the PM had an important address to the energy council and importantly the users/ voters.
    After this important speech normally the PM would go on 7.30, but who won out in getting the PM, channel 10’s The Project.

    Mark Scott and the News team, are you wondering why?

  59. Trev @ 11:07 am

    Sigh….. Iain why do you bother to comment my friend? Surely the answer to your question is perfectly obvious. Try replacing the word “deference” with the more appropriate word “courtesy” and all may become clear.

    Trev you will find no one who values courtesy as much as I do, but you clearly misunderstand the point that I’m making here which is that as soon as a leader has made the effort to be on the same footing as those that are led it becomes very easy indeed to disrespect the office of “leader”, especially when that leader has taken the people and their vote for granted by saying one thing to be elected and disavowing that undertaking as soon as they get into office because it was politically inconvenient to keep their word.

  60. So if one is informal, that opens them to be abused. Is being informal a crime?

    Logic I am afraid is the one thing that is missing.

    Some related being informal to being friendly and relaxed. That must also be a crime in some eyes.

  61. “Trev you will find no one who values courtesy as much as I do, but you clearly misunderstand the point that I’m making here which is that as soon as a leader has made the effort to be on the same footing as those that are led it becomes very easy indeed to disrespect the office of “leader”…….”

    Iain
    I appreciate your explanation, but I did understand your “familiarity breeds contempt” argument. One has only to look at Bob Hawke’s time in the Lodge to drill holes in that old chestnut (originally applied to relationships between officers and their men in the British military by the way).

    I didn’t notice Mr Hawke (relaxed and informal as he was) being treated in the same fashion as our current PM. One can only wonder why.

  62. Trev

    I didn’t notice Mr Hawke (relaxed and informal as he was) being treated in the same fashion as our current PM. One can only wonder why.

    Well he was a Far better PM for a start!

  63. The ABC’s stuffed. Mark Bloody Simpkin last night telling us about power increases. Saying that carbon pricing is only a small proportion of the totality of recent increases & showing the numbers to prove it too. But, having got that out of the way we were onto the carbon tax because that’s what he wanted to talk about to get things back on track. Yes, it’s that bloody carbon tax that’s got you all annoyed isn’t it? The other increases, well, C’est la vie eh? These things happen. This Bloody Carbon Tax however…

  64. So if one does not live up to our expectations, one has the right to abuse and denigration..

  65. Trev
    “I didn’t notice Mr Hawke (relaxed and informal as he was) being treated in the same fashion as our current PM. One can only wonder why”.

    Iain Hall
    “Well he was a Far better PM for a start!”

    Please don’t leave it there Iain. I’m agog to hear the next bit of the case you’re trying to make. Pray continue; convince me that journalists and others have the right to gross discourtesy towards even (as you and others claim) an incompetent PM.

  66. Pingback: Annabel Crabb: A journo to ‘follow’ | passport2go

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