The Fool on the Hill (part 2)

In my last post I endeavoured to point out how much of a fool Tony Abbott is when he ‘tries’ to talk about climate change. His idiocy is not confined to that subject alone and in this post I will focus on another subject he completely stuffs up on: Women.

As a member of the male gender he could be forgiven for his ignorance. After all, what man does have a good grasp of this delicate yet complex subject? 😉

But he does live with a household of them and as a modern day politician he should at least make an effort to be aware that the modern day woman is a phenomena, not a relic. Nor an object.

The circus clown with the big ears had the audience in raptures a year or so back with his comment that women should stay home and iron, or something to that effect.  Although the laughter has died down, the image he painted has not. It is an image that was all too familiar in this country: the barefoot and pregnant housewife.

He has never retracted that comment, which suggests he still carries that ideology. This is what I want to focus on in this post on. But unlike the last post where I’d trawled the internet for some of the zillions of examples of his stupidity, here I want to hone in on the stupidity of his ideology and how out of touch it is with reality.

Mr Abbott, you are a fool if you think the modern day woman wants to stay home and iron, and a bigger fool for saying it. Women should not be stereotyped, especially into the role model you expect of them. Instead of barking at everybody how the carbon price is going to destroy the universe, try grasping something in the real world. Here’s a start: woman don’t want to stay home and iron. They want to work. They want jobs and careers. They want what their mothers fought for. It’s been that way for 40 years. Only a fool doesn’t know that.

I’ll give you a history lesson on how they have fought for their rights to work in an environment and society that wanted to exclude them. That wanted them to stay home and iron.

Not many women had jobs until World War 2. During the war female participation in the workforce was buoyed by the necessities of the time, however, at the conclusion of the war in 1945 the workforce returned to male domination.

Feminists groups considered that capitalists, unions and governments had conspired to discourage employment opportunities for women, and indeed, the unevenness of the gender balance in employment was not seriously addressed until the 1970s.  Two significant events that opened up opportunities for women were equal pay and the efforts to remove sexual discrimination.

The gender distribution has also been evened by two other agencies.  Firstly, the life expectancy of women has increased as has their availability to work.  Secondly, and more significantly, many traditional male jobs have become redundant due to automation, especially computers.  Women are now the skilled workers in this new work culture.

The employment nature in 1945 was influenced by the demands of World War 2, creating in Australia one of those moments in history where women were brought into the workforce because their labour was needed and not because of their own desires in the matter.

Feminists (and Marxists) argue that this indicates that women were used as only a reserve of labour – and discarded at will – suggesting that governments and capitalists have historically maintained the subordination of women in the workforce for capital’s interest.  (However, at the conclusion of the war women quite willingly terminated employment to become baby-makers for returning soldiers).

Whatever the argument, immediately after 1945 the gender composition of the workforce was extremely male dominant.  Over the next fifty years this dominance was addressed and moderated.

Without transgressing too far from the issue of gender composition, it is worth considering the feminist’s argument behind the traditional male dominance.  Some claim that work conditions had been regulated to exclude women from areas of male dominance, adding that governments pursued policies that have either re-enforced women’s dependant position in the home or locked them into dependency on welfare.  It has also been suggested that male dominated trade unions engaged in constructing a definition of skill that excluded women from certain areas of the workforce.

The Australian labour force was highly segmented against women.  There was a huge gap in inequality of employment (that would delight Mr Abbott), being:

  • differences in access opportunities;
  • differences in job tenure and security;
  • segregation within jobs and industries; and
  • differences in earnings and benefits.

From 1947 a steady growth in the percentage of women in the workforce has been recorded.  Possible causes of this growth in women’s labour force participation can be attributed to the following events:

1949                Female pay rate fixed at 75% of male rate
1949                Women admitted to the Australian Public Service
1966                Abolition of Marriage Bar in the Australian Public Service (married women now able to be permanently employed)
1972                Equal pay for work of equal value
1984                Sex Discrimination Act

1986 also is significant as the federal government introduced the Affirmative Action Agency to administer the Equal Opportunity for Women Act due to continuing concern in the workforce participation and income disparities between men and women.

If women had been deliberately kept from the workforce, then this period represents a push for employment opportunities.  Up to the 1960s in particular, women were considered mentally, physically and intellectually inferior to men and thus unable to perform men’s traditional tasks.  Since the 1970s, feminist’s movements have won new freedoms for women.  The right to work has been one as has equal pay for equal work.

Given the steady increase in female participation in the workforce it indicates that the gradual introduction of equal pay/opportunities and the removal of discriminatory practices have affected gender distribution.

But there is another dimension: the social factor, that is, the opportunity to be able to seek employment.  Contrasting a woman born in 1945 with the scenario of that of the particular woman’s grandmother, on average, the grandmother married when she was aged twenty-five, had her last baby when she was forty, and died aged not quite sixty.  By contrast, her granddaughter married when she was aged twenty-two, had her last child when she was thirty and expected to live on to seventy.  In other words, the granddaughter would have at least twice as many years to work after her last child went to school as did her grandmother

The social factor is also considered important.  Steadily over the past fifty years the working woman, and in particular the working mother is a more familiar role than prior to World War 2, as are the socialisation processes that working encourages.  Without work it is difficult to participate in community life, and this is reflected in women’s increasing participation in work as an explicit response to their marginalisation in society.

One of the factors that had kept female numbers in the workforce low was the narrow career choices available and sex role stereotyping.  In 1978 the South Australian Government initiated projects to make employment available to women in traditional male roles, and campaigned through the Education Department to entice female school leavers to pursue the targeted careers.  Trades that had always been male dominated such as mechanics, engineering, tiling and shearing now had female participation.  Further, and as a result of this campaign, women were now also pursuing more professional careers in greater numbers such as law, science and dentistry.

Gender differences in the workforce are now also influenced by economics rather than political or social factors.

There has also been a massive change in the nature of the Australian labour force.   Whereas most people had been employed in the primary sector (farming and mining), secondary industries (manufacturing), and in tertiary (service), the last fifteen years has witnessed growth in the quaternary (information processing) services.

Farming, mining and manufacturing have traditionally been male dominated.  While employment levels in farming and mining had already begun to fall well before recent times, manufacturing continues to be affected.

Male job displacement had a very humble start.  The introduction of the typewriter brought women into the workforce at the expense of men writing by hand.  It was only natural from there that women progressed to computing and other clerical or office positions.

Of particular interest is the large percentage of women employed in clerical duties.  This is an area where there has been a decline in manual work and women have benefited in the move to office automation.  Marxists would view this – ironically – as women benefiting from industries’ endeavour to reduce the cost of labour by the introduction of computerisation.

Well, there’s your lesson, Mr Abbott. We have evolved into a society where women are now major players on the employment landscape. We need them there. Industries would collapse without them.

Don’t be surprised if the modern day woman doesn’t want to stay home an iron.  They might prefer to keep what they’ve fought for.

If you want to maintain your ignorance, then you are still a fool.

If a simple soul such as myself could see that the world’s been changing and that women have driven that change, why can’t you?

273 comments on “The Fool on the Hill (part 2)

  1. I wonder how the man will cope, when on that world stage, he is surrounded by woman much more powerful that him.

    When he comes across the head IMF of the German Chancellor.for starters.

    Then there is the second most powerful person, in the USA, another woman.

    When he meets heads of our banks, surrounded by women.

    When he comes in contact with the unions, more women that are heads. Same for industry.

    Woman who are smart and carry power.

    This is not the same as surrounding himself with woman who build his ego, but are at all time his underlings.

    I will address where I have come from as a woman. From where I worked in factories at four fifths of a man’s wage, doing the same job. Where all the workers were woman, with a man always in charge. Even the dole was at this rate.

    Where I as a young woman, listened to these male bosses telling us, if we for equal pay, we would be sorry, as the jobs would then go to men. Funny, that never happened. Every step forwarded, seen the roles for women widened.

    Oh, the shit we have had to put up with from the stronger sex is beyond belief. It is sad, that it still continues, not only from the men.

    We have a contributor to this site, that still believe that there are certain roles for men and women. That this is the norm. I just wish they would take the blinkers off and look around.

    Now there is country in Africa, Rwanda, that due to war, the population is 70% women.

    The Parliament is made up of at least 50%.women.

    For the first time in their history, women are going ahead in leaps and bounds.

    Surely we do not need a civil war to be seen as equal.
    As Miglo said, they manage to take over from the men, during the war. They took over in all fields.. Even the present Queen drove a truck.

    The hatred that Mr. Abbott sends across that table in QT is not what one would expect from a man fit to take over her job.

    His speech today was full of hate.

    Why hate?

    Would he hate, if his opponent was a man. I suspect not.

    Even when I worked in the clothing trade where the work is seen as women’s work, the bosses were always men.

  2. Migs, you have been busy and your efforts are greatly appreciated. 🙂

    The tool/fool made this comment in a speech to the Bennelong Society in 2004, link no longer available, which is a good thing for Mr. Abbott, but thankfully their is a treasure trove of his brain farts on google search.

    “What the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing is that if they get it done commercially it’s going to go up in price and their own power bills when they switch the iron on are going to go up, every year….”

    The Bennelong Society must have found this information quite riveting!

    This one should also do the rounds …

    Thaumaturgical said
    August 5, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    An excellent demonstration of how horrible and conservative Tony Abbott is, and why I will not be voting for him on August 21.

    Also, for the record:

    “I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons”

    – Quote from an undergraduate piece he wrote on feminism.

    This was in Honi Soit the University of Sydney student newspaper, in 1979.

    Funny thing is that PM Gillard, in spite of her weaker female condition, managed to
    negotiate with the Greens and the Independents to form government, while the “fool” couldn’t even manage to stand and greet Tony Windsor when his chance at being the Prime Minister hung in the balance. As Catching up pointed out recently, he was showing who was boss…

    In the meantime, his friends at ltd news and the ABC have been very consistent in their efforts to cover up his many flaws.

    Reasons to not vote for Tony
    Posted by caitlinate on August 5, 2010

    http://thedawnchorus.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/reasons-to-not-vote-for-tony/

  3. i believe any man who would belittle/oppress/suppress women does so b’coz in the deepest, darkest corner of his heart he KNOWS that if a woman ever replaced HIM, she’d do a damn site BETTER job f it than he ever can….

  4. Pip

    Funny thing is that PM Gillard, in spite of her weaker female condition, managed to
    negotiate with the Greens and the Independents to form government, while the “fool” couldn’t even manage to stand and greet Tony Windsor when his chance at being the Prime Minister hung in the balance. As Catching up pointed out recently, he was showing who was boss…

    Just look at the price that she paid for that so called wonderful deal Pip. Anyone can do a deal if they essentially pay what ever is asked as Gillard did. Frankly I reckon as much as Abbott wants to be PM he is also thankful that he did not win the poisoned chalice of a hung parliament and minority government.

    Migs

    As much as I admire the efforts that you have gone to here to enunciate the changing role of women in the workplace what you have not done is substantiate your claim that Tony Abbott wants to see women “bare foot, pregnant and chained to domestic drudgery”. Personally having spent the last thirteen years in a role swap arrangement with my wife I reckon that the life at home looking after your offspring ain’t such a bad gig and if you can avoid being on the consumer treadmill having one partner earning the bread and the other raising the children is not a bad arrangement. and It certainly isn’t always such a bad deal for the women who do it either.

  5. Iain, you just wont get it. Abbott had the same opportunity to do a deal with the independents and was just about to “sell his arse”, but he could not be trusted, and so he failed. They could not trust him because he is is a liar and they knew it.

  6. No Skeptical
    You don’t seem to understand the fine art of haggling or how to make a deal that you can live with. The golden rule when it comes to buying anything is that you have to work out what you are willing to pay and then you have to walk away of the price is too high. The price that Gillard paid was the Greens’ Carbon tax and I have to ask you, with the benefit of hindsight, how do you think that has worked out for Labor?
    The price you pay and what it actaully costs you are not always the same thing (which is a bit like buying a used car in need of repairs) Abbott was not willing to buy the restoration project at the same outrageous cost as Gillard which tells me he is the more wise and skilful negotiator because when the project goes back on the market he will get it without having to “sell his arse” after all.

  7. Wrong as usual Iain, or another attempt at rewriting history to obfuscate on another massive failure of your flawed hero.

    Abbott had offered the Indies more in bribes than Gillard had, especially Wilkie. The Indies were willing to support Abbott until it was revealed that he had no plans for allowing the Indies to have the balance of power for any more than six months.

    Abbott had planned to put up that working with the Indies was unviable and create a crisis so he could engineer an early election in the hope of winning outright.

    It was that what caused the Indies to turn so much against Abbott and continue to hate him to this day, even when Gillard hadn’t implemented their policies, ideas or had gone completely against them.

    Gillard has always had Abbott’s measure. She used to kick his arse from here to kingdom come when she was in opposition, and she continues to do so to this day.

    The gormless brain farting Abbott a wise and skilful negotiator, like he was with the Indonesians and the Indies? What a joke and proof that you are just pulling our legs here.

    If Abbott is so good why does he need to go around lying and deceiving all the time? Why is he deceptive in negotiations? If he is so skilful why does he need carefully scripted set pieces and can only utter three word slogans in answer to anything? If he is so skilful why does he avoid scrutiny like the plague and run from interviews? That’s not being wise and skilful, it’s being artful and lumpen, something that always come back to to bite the dodger sooner rather than later.

    You can see Abbott heading for a train wreck but he just keeps applying the steaming bullshit.

  8. On a hung parliament..who knows what the results might be at the next election. As the saying goes, pride goeth before the fall and as much as the polls indicate a substantial LNP win, “normal” would be a bounce back..especially when Abbott comes under scrutiny as potentially our Prime Minister.

    The Indies chose Gillard for 2 reasons, that Gillard was prepared to negotiate on issues whereas Abbott said himself that his word was not to be trusted, unless it was written down..and even then I’m doubtful. The other reason was that the Indies considered that Gillard was far more likely to run a full term, whereas Abbott would have wanted to head back to the polls asap. His continuous calls that he had been dudded and wanted another election but confirmed for the Indies that they had made the right decision.

    Who knows, Abbott might yet find himself having to negotiate with the Indies.

  9. Iain, I think that we have come quite a long way since gender was defined as “roles”. Daughter Erin’s partner would starve to death if he didn’t lend a hand with the cooking. 😉

    I must have been lucky as an only child, I spent far more time in the garage with dad than with mum in the kitchen. Mind you, mum’s a terrible cook (she would be the first to admit), so I took over most of the household cooking while in my early teens.

    Cu and Where all the workers were woman, with a man always in charge.

    This still persists..see pay gap between female and male executives, it’s quite substantial and growing. The other pay gap relates to traditional female work roles such as child care and aged care. A man would not accept the conditions nor the pay.

    My own story relates to when I was Manager of the Hotels Department, Jetset Tours Head Office in Melbourne. Although we had a man ostensibly in charge, Peter basically let me do my own thing, organisation plus staff. During my time we grew from a small wholesale offshoot of Astronaut Travel to being by far the largest and most profitable wing of the company (owned by Isi Leibler).

    It was decided that “a man” was needed to Take Charge. They hired an Accountant who promptly stuffed up the entire system. I was moved sideways as DC took over my office plus my staff. I became the trouble shooter for the company, awful job..I left.

  10. Möbius Ecko

    Wrong as usual Iain, or another attempt at rewriting history to obfuscate on another massive failure of your flawed hero.

    I would argue that failing to get hold of the poisoned chalice of minority government has give Abbott an extremely good chance of holding on to the lodge for at least three terms if not longer as the Labor party has been dying an agonising death under Gillard. Queensland’s state results may be something that is considered “not too bad” after the coming wipe-out!

    Abbott had offered the Indies more in bribes than Gillard had, especially Wilkie. The Indies were willing to support Abbott until it was revealed that he had no plans for allowing the Indies to have the balance of power for any more than six months.

    Abbott had planned to put up that working with the Indies was unviable and create a crisis so he could engineer an early election in the hope of winning outright.

    It was that what caused the Indies to turn so much against Abbott and continue to hate him to this day, even when Gillard hadn’t implemented their policies, ideas or had gone completely against them.

    So you think that its good for our democracy that three men hold the country to ransom to protect their seats in parliament? In any event the longer that this minority government is in power the more that the public hate and despise them and the longer that Labor will spend in the wilderness, for someone of the left surely you don’t think that the decades of irrelevance that the left faces is a good thing?

    Gillard has always had Abbott’s measure. She used to kick his arse from here to kingdom come when she was in opposition, and she continues to do so to this day.

    Gee I don’t get that when I talk to people about politics or when I read the polling!

    The gormless brain farting Abbott a wise and skilful negotiator, like he was with the Indonesians and the Indies? What a joke and proof that you are just pulling our legs here.

    The proof is in the pudding mate, Is the stuff being severed up by Gillard really that tasty?
    Indonesia may not like the thinks that Abbot says but what of it? They will have to learn to live with a neighbour who won’t take their excuses or grovel the way that Gillard and Labor do.

    If Abbott is so good why does he need to go around lying and deceiving all the time? Why is he deceptive in negotiations? If he is so skilful why does he need carefully scripted set pieces and can only utter three word slogans in answer to anything? If he is so skilful why does he avoid scrutiny like the plague and run from interviews? That’s not being wise and skilful, it’s being artful and lumpen, something that always come back to to bite the dodger sooner rather than later.

    All political players tend towards being “economic” with the truth some are better than others at doing this ant it is seen to be a virtue or a vice tends to be a function of your confirmation bias. With you Möbius your confirmation bias is as big as a truck.

    You can see Abbott heading for a train wreck but he just keeps applying the steaming bullshit.

    Well actually I see him heading towards a very big win at the next election, not necessarily because he is a man of great and boundless talent and virtue but because he faces a dishevelled and despondent government who have a real talent for making bad and foolish decisions.

  11. Sell his arse? Talk about perpetuating a lie by Windsor because it fits into the group hate! I suppose you also believe that Katter carries toilet paper in his bag too???

    Katter does not carry toilet paper and Abbott never said he would sell his arse either.

  12. Min

    Iain, I think that we have come quite a long way since gender was defined as “roles”. Daughter Erin’s partner would starve to death if he didn’t lend a hand with the cooking. 😉

    Well in our house I am chief cook and bottle washer here and my dear wife struggles to do things like boiling an egg! Her talents lay elsewhere!

    I must have been lucky as an only child, I spent far more time in the garage with dad than with mum in the kitchen. Mind you, mum’s a terrible cook (she would be the first to admit), so I took over most of the household cooking while in my early teens.

    I have tried with may daughter Min I have even bought her an old car with the idea that we would build it together but after a couple of sessions at the dismantling stage she has lost interest and claims to fear “drilly grindy things” I live in hope that when I get a bit further on with the project that she will be more interested but I’m enjoying it anyway so I’m philosophical about her tool using abilities. She gets straight A’s at school so I’m sure that its not through lack of intelligence.

  13. Scaper, I think that you would come severely adrift in trying to run down a person such as Tony Windsor. Windsor would be the straightest shooter currently in parliament.

  14. Iain, full marks to you for encouraging her. The thing is that it’s all about choices rather than being slotted into gender-specific roles.

    My girls were lucky enough to attend Mullumbimby High School where irrespective of gender one could do woodwork or sheet metal work. Quite different from “my day” where the girls got to do the boring stuff such as learning how to embroider whereas the boys did all the interesting stuff.

    Youngest is soon to complete her PhD in molecular biology at UQ, however I am also the proud owner of a leather covered footstool and a step-ladder courtesy of woodwork at Mullumbimby High School.

    As stated, it’s all about choices plus being given the opportunities to “try anything”..or is that everything.

  15. Cuppa..love it. 🙂 Great line: I like the way that he stands on his hind legs, as if he thinks that he’s a person..

  16. Windsor is a liar! I stand by my last post, Abbott never said he would sell his arse and Katter does not carry toilet paper in his bag.

  17. From your link.

    Mr Abbott’s spokesman rejected the recollection yesterday. ”Tony did not make that comment,” he said.

    Abbott is bad enough but to peddle lies to make him look worse is just pathetic. What I find with both sides is that hatred has distorted the truth and I will call out the lies.

    Did it on another blog in relation to the so called lie by Gillard and got savaged by the right so I expect no less from the left as they are just as bad as each other!

  18. So apparently people voting for an Independent is not democracy.

    Abbott and the Liberals with the born to rule mentality are sore loser, plain and simple. Just about every other democracy in the world deals with minority representation everyday and have been doing so for a very long time. The US is one of the few exceptions.

    It is only Abbott who has a problem because he cannot negotiate one iota. He’s absolutely hopeless at it and has to have his puppet masters feed him lines to make him look like his a small semblance of intelligence.

    For stuff sake, for all his faults and failures even Howard managed to successfully deal with independents and work with the opposition when he wasn’t wedging that is. It’s only the confessed liar Abbott and this current opposition who have a real problem with people skills.

    And what’s honourable or skilful about making a bunch of promises to get people onside but be planning to cut their throats behind their backs? Even in that he was a terrible treater as the dishonourable intention was telegraphed to the world because of his brain farts.

  19. Cuppa, I would have thought that having a baby was more radical than conservative..after all, one does not do this thing every day of the week.

    Babies of course in World-Tony are highly approved of as this wee morsel keeps women where they belong..at the ironing board.

    Mind you (Jane shoot me), I don’t in the least mind ironing.

  20. Mobius, wasn’t there a story about a meeting where Abbott didn’t even rise to shake hands but sat there with his boots on the table.

  21. This is irresistible..

    Some weeks ago I reported how I’d been at the airport to meet someone when across the arrivals area walked the freshly-arrived, designed-by-God-to-be-prime minister, Tony Abbott.

    His self-consciously self-proclaiming swagger, the extreme ”Look at me!” theatricality of his gait, enthralled me. I did my best, within my modest vocabulary and modest imagination, to describe it – its testosterone-proclaiming bragging, its primitive (yet sophisticated) declaration that ”I’m a macho man who could turn the boats around single-handed”, its simultaneous celebration of the light and dancing gait of Fred Astaire and of the simian, menacing, bodybuilt plod of Tarzan of the Apes.

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/the-romans-knew-how-to-talk-the-walk-20120713-2210y.html#ixzz20YMsTpcI

  22. Here’s another one, Min. Note the other nominee, another conservative, Joe Hockey…

    Abbott stars at sexist awards night
    Sydney Morning Herald, 17 September 2010

    Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has taken out two Ernie Awards at the 18th annual forum that names and shames public figures for making sexist comments throughout the year.

    […]

    At the awards show in Sydney last night, Mr Abbott won a Political Silver Ernie award for such comments as “What the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing.”

    He was the favourite to win the political category after being nominated eight times this year.

    The winners are determined by how loud the 300 women who attend the event at NSW Parliament House in Sydney howl, hiss and boo at the nominations.

    Mr Abbott also took out the Clinton Award, reserved for repeat offenders.

    But he was given a run for his money this year by his treasury spokesman Joe Hockey.

    Mr Hockey was twice nominated for the political Ernie this year, including his election campaign gaffe: “[Treasurer] Wayne Swan is to surpluses what Paris Hilton is to celibacy”.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/abbott-stars-at-sexist-awards-night-20100917-15eyc.html

  23. Mr Abbott’s spokesman rejected the recollection yesterday. ”Tony did not make that comment,” he said.

    So scaper, you know for certain that Mr Windsor was lying. You were there in the room at the time? Or is it just confirmation bias that tells you that Mr Windsormust have lied because an Abbott spokesman wouldn’t 🙄

  24. Cuppa, that statement of Abbott’s was always an interesting one.. what housewives need to understand.. Absolutely reeks of condescension. Imagine someone standing opposite you and telling you this is what you need to understand.

    Immediate impulse is to say go get fcked…

    Hockey is nothing more than a buffoon.

  25. “I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a Prime Minister”

    Watch out for smart redheads.

  26. Well spotted, Min. Yes, it is condescending, and menacing when you look at it that way. I note the Canberra Times opinion piece you quoted also alludes to his menacing bearing. Clearly there’s a pattern here of traits inappropriate in a would-be leader of a “liberal” democracy in the 21st century.

    There’s been some discussion about the negotiations that took place following the last Federal election. There is some footage of this by Four Corners. It is interesting to watch in this context, as it shows him, yes, here’s the pattern again, menacing some females from the ABC. It also shows the Independents’ annoyance with trying to negotiate with this fool.

  27. Min @ 10.47
    Thanks for that link, which I think sums up the impression Abbott has always created in me. In earlier days I was scared of his kamikaze, let’s push the red button & see what happens attitude but thought he would always be kept under some sort of control. But now, with the support he receives, he’s allowed full rein with all this. Should we be stupid enough as a nation to elect him I predict his sideways swagger may increase to the point where he topples over.
    But yes, to see him walk is to understand why one shouldn’t ever vote for him.

    P.S. I’d never heard of this Ian Warden guy. Is he a regular? Be worth watching out for.

  28. Iain and scaper, there are none so blind as those that will not see.
    Abbott stating that he will be the bast friend of the aus workers and stating that his last effort as IR minister proves that, shows just how delusional the man really is.
    If anyone in the LNP said that the sky was blue, any sane person would go and check for themselves!

  29. Bob, a search for Ian Warden reveals that he is an historian/journo working out of Canberra.

    I was never particularly aware of Tony Abbott other than him being part of Howard’s B Team until he made the Bernie Banton comment about not being pure of heart. Immediate warning bells..this is a person whose ego rules all of his attitudes towards others, especially those who he considers his inferiors.

    Abbott’s subsequent swearing at Nicola Roxon again reeked of condescension.

    Everything that Abbott has said or done since then has but reinforced this impression of him.

  30. An old brain fart from Abbott.

    In what must be one of the most stupid, ill-thought out statements ever mumbled from the mouth of a politician Tony Abbott reckons that Australians should have more babies. And less immigrants of course.

  31. Blind? The blind are the people mindlessly supporting their own sides and not calling them to account. Funny thing is they consider themselves sane and question the sanity of those that question their narrow ideology.

    Get yourself a seeing eye dog!

  32. Scaper, I guess we’re all guilty of blind loyalty to a degree.

    I was like that in the early days of Howard. As far as I was concerned, he could do no wrong.

    These days I’m a bit more cynical and despite the ‘blind loyalty’ I’m prepared to bag Labor if I have due cause.

    But let’s face it. There’s nothing to bag. :mrgreen:

  33. Migs, what do you think of the proposed internet filtering and media laws?

    I’ll put it another way…what do you think the opposition will do if they get in and these policies are in place? Let’s hope Labor do drop these policies as don’t trust any government with those powers in place.

  34. scaper love is blind, love of Abbott makes you blind, deaf and stupid.
    And if you are an organ donator, your biggest asset will be your brain, as it has obviously never been used.

  35. Scaper, I’m not opposed to the internet filtering. I recognise there’s been a bit of a scare campaign against it whilst the real need for its implementation has been completely overlooked.

    What scares most people is the thought that somebody will be looking over their shoulder whenever they’re on the internet. Well guess what? That’s been going on for ages. The Americans already monitor what happens – world wide.

    Try emailing someone (but not me) with the proposal that they help you carry out a terrorist act on US soil and provide details, dates, names etc and see what happens.

    Actually, don’t do it. I don’t want to see anything bad happen to you.

  36. On the media laws, news.com says that they’ll fight these all the way to the High Court..therefore prima facie, the government must be heading in the right direction.

    Bolt’s ability to denigrate “white Aborigines” is but one indication of the need that the msm should be held more accountable for accuracy in their reporting. This is giving due regard to the fact that Bolt’s loss of this case related to his inaccurate guesswork such as Larissa Behrendt’s father is German, he’s not he’s Aboriginal.

    The laws pertaining to defamation have extended to the alternative media as per a recent case in the Supreme Court; the msm must likewise be held accountable.

    One cannot defame others and that there be no consequences. Rumour mongering is rife.. It was, some said, too concentrated in ownership, biased, vindictive, sloppy and at times unethical in its coverage of people and events.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/finkelstein-report-medias-great-divide/story-e6frg996-1226295437607

  37. I’m not opposed to the internet filtering.

    Me neither Migs, on the proviso that it’s opt-in, not opt-out or no-opt… I don’t have anyone in this house under 21, so I’ll trust all of them to make intelligent decisions of their own.

    As for the surveillance law proposals, I haven’t read too much on that yet, but would caution that iron-clad safeguards must be built-in to protect ordinary people’s privacy. Drug cartels and organised crime should be fair game, but not at the expense of ordinary citizens’ rights.

    On the media, perhaps a closer look at Canadian laws would be well worthwhile.

  38. scaper

    Yes he did say it.
    QUOTE
    []In a series of interviews with independent MPs to mark the anniversary of their decision to back Labor in a minority government, Mr Windsor said he felt alarm and pity when Mr Abbott revealed how deeply he wanted the job of prime minister.

    “I remember him saying ‘Tony, I would do anything for this job. The only thing I wouldn’t do is sell my arse, but I’d have to give serious thought to it’,” Mr Windsor told Fairfax media.[/]
    UNQUOTE

    Abbott denied it, as he would, but he is on record as admitting he tell lies. He said he doesn’t use language like that, but he does. Examples abound.

    He said it, he is a gutless coward who doesn’t want to live with it.

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbott-denies-comment-about-pms-job-20110828-1jg74.html

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-day-abbott-bared-his-soul-20110827-1jfgv.html

  39. Skeptical @ 12:02 pm

    Iain and scaper, there are none so blind as those that will not see.
    Abbott stating that he will be the bast friend of the aus workers and stating that his last effort as IR minister proves that, shows just how delusional the man really is.
    If anyone in the LNP said that the sky was blue, any sane person would go and check for themselves!

    I assume from your rhetoric that you have never managed a business in life otherwise you would realise that there is a very clear relationship between the cost of labour and the amount of work that an employer can afford to offer.So you can drive up wages as high as you like and you may find that instead of workers ending up better off they find instead that their boss pays much closer attention to his rosters and offers less hours to his staff. This is certainly the case in hospitality and food service or any industry that has a predominately casual workforce.
    To get IR right takes a certain level of compromise from both management and Labour and just running the outdated Marxist rhetoric just does not cut it in the real world.

  40. Scaper, I can honestly say that I do not have a clue with Abbott will do if elected Prime Minister. The few policies he had announced has caused Hockey and most especially Robb to throw their hands up in horror..mental calculators going 10 to the dozen, how much is this brain f*rt of Abbott’s going to cost.

  41. Security is one thing but to have the power to block sites that a government deems unaceptable opens up a can of worms for the opposition to gorge on when they are in government.

    The coalition would have the power to block this site.

    We have laws already in place to protect citizens’ rights, to regulate the media in the fashion that has been proposed will lead to tears.

  42. Iain, this is true to a certain extent. I always found whilst an employer, own small business for 6 years that it was best to take the employee on the journey with you.

    During the time of any business downturn (usually a hiatus between Xmas and Easter), I found my employees although disappointed were understanding. Morale was always good because the lines of communication were always kept open.

  43. Scaps, I have to admit to not being up to scratch with the internet security issue. I know that there are huge problems with pedophiles doing file swapping. Via the social media there are also Hate Sites especially pertaining to racial discrimination and gay hate pages. A mate Pete J Pete has been instrumental in having many of these hate pages deactivated.

    I personally believe that the whole internet security issue was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to a new media. I do believe that parents should be the one’s primarily responsible, but on the other hand I do know what it’s like trying to supervise 3 teenagers…

  44. Scaper, the sole intent of the internet filtering is to combat crime. The internet has become a playground for sexual predators and I’m more than happy for something to be done about it.

    We can only speculate what an Abbott Government might do. Having worked for both governments I can vouch that the Liberals are a pack of Gestapos.

  45. I am a bit of an Ayn Rand fan, there are those who haven’t read her with much understanding or who choose the Hollywood interpretation.

    Rand, “The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity.” and “The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live”.

  46. Yes Puffy TMD, that was the biggest give away that Abbott might have been lying over his denial, as he lied on so many other things.

    On a couple of occasions he emphatically said in his defence that he never uses language like that, yet within an hour dozens, if not more, examples were flooding the Innerwebs and Tubes with quotes and videos of him using language like that.

    It’s like the occasions he projects something he has done or said that reflects badly on him, denies he ever did it or said it, but when challenged with footage of him effecting what he said he hadn’t done, he brain freezes. It’s why is so careful about what interviews he allows, has minders to pull him away or prompt him or just runs away.

  47. Why, when I think of music..do I think that it’s all too good for Abbott..Mr Cellophane, because you can see right through him..

  48. Iain, your daughter not liking cars has nothing to do with gender. She might just not like working with you.

    I am sure there are many fathers out there, complaining about their sons in a similar vein.

    Saying that woman can do anything, does not mean they want to do everything.

    There are son that can put on a good meal and keep a house clean, the same as there are daughters. On the other hand,there are sons and daughters, that would living in conditions that put a pig sty to shame.

    Maybe the daughter picks up on your attitudes, that you seem to show here. Maybe like most women, she demands the right to choose what she wants to do with her life. Building cars is not one of them.

    Of course there is a relationship between labour and profits. Just as there is between rent and the cost of raw materials. Wages seem to be the only one, that you as a boss appear to believe you have the right to set unilaterally.

    In many areas of production, wages are not the major cost.

    Labour cannot be seen as a a commodity, as the worker contributes to the profits in many wages. They provide, yes labour, but also knowledge and ides. That is if the boss is smart enough to listen.

    Workers also have a stake in the business being successful To listen to some bosses, one would think they are the enemy, out to undermine every business.

    There are very few businesses that can produce anything without the worker. This is still true in these days of automation.

    The cost of wages over time are decreasing as a part of cost. Thye greedy boss wants i

    The worker contributes to the profits of every business. it is only blind bosses that cannot see this.

  49. I do not believe it, that there are some here, still arguing that woman are second class people, who are inferior to men.

  50. Cu, and There are son that can put on a good meal and keep a house clean, the same as there are daughters. On the other hand,there are sons and daughters, that would living in conditions that put a pig sty to shame.

    You’ve been peeking at my crew haven’t you. 😉

    Son, neat as a pin..daughters, especially youngest (my heart goes out to you Ross) who are a complete disaster area. Imagine, a room covered from A to B with papers, all important ones..do not dare touch because Erin has collated the whole thing in her brain and knows exactly which part of her PhD thesis is in which corner.

  51. Anthony G, just saying, the US Republicans and conservatives here think Rand was wonderful which is not surprising as she favoured free market capitalism.

  52. I agree.

    We must hope Tony Abbott is lying when he says he will turn back the boats. If he is not lying and actually means it, he is ignorant, foolish and reckless. Let me count the ways.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/sympathy-for-the-devils-we-know-20120713-2212f.html#ixzz20ZB9ykdy

    Abbott knows this sort of hairy-chested populism plays well in marginal electorates. Illustration: Shakespeare

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/sympathy-for-the-devils-we-know-20120713-2212f.html#ixzz20ZBX7Uft

  53. Cu, I do not believe it, that there are some here, still arguing that woman are second class people, who are inferior to men.

    Sadly, there are still some un-evolved types floating around….imo they’re best ignored!

  54. Pip,

    Rand has in the past certainly been the darling of free market capitalism, but the same as all free thinkers much of it is in the interpretation. Rand believed in individualism which has a certain amount of optimism behind it, she was also a person of her time being a Russian Jewish immigrant, therefore her philosophy often ran contra to collectivism and Communism.

  55. Fortunately there aren’t too many un-evolved types around here. It wasn’t all that long ago that Migs was copping heaps because there were a good number of females on this blog. Who can forget the good old Club Menopause put-downs which we all copped.

    Therefore the inference was that Migs’ blog was somehow inferior because of the acceptance of the opinions of females.

  56. Mobius, it is with some relief that FINALLY and after all this time that the msm is finally catching on to the improbability, unfunctionality and plain bloody bizarro world which are the policies of Tony Abbott.

  57. “Just look at the price that she paid for that so called wonderful deal Pip. “

    Just let us look. What do we find.

    A economy that the rest of the world looks on with envy.

    The GEF which deals with the rising carbon emissions that enraged the planet. A mechanism which is considered by experts to ge the cheapest and most efficient way of sealing with the problem.

    Our education infrastructure pull screaming into this century.

    A budget that spends less, with lower taxation.

    Low unemployment.

    Low inflation.

    A taxation mechanism to bring balance to the uneven economy, caused bu the high dollars, which results from the high profits in the mining industry

    What is more amazing for this as some see useless woman, she is still in power.

    This “she” has been able to introduce and get pass all the “she”: set out to do.

    The only outstanding piece of business will be put to bed at the next sitting.

    The PM has taken a step back and introduced the Expert Panel, in the hope of getting passed Mr. Abbott’s pigheaded impasse.

    During this time, Mr. Abbott has not had one victory. He is still railing and ranting, as he has done since day one, that he was robbed. He goes out every day, at great expense to the tax payer, repeating the same nonsense over, and over, and over.

    He is still railing against the voters, who elected this legitimate government that was put in place according to the Constitution.

    Mr. Abbott’s hate, in my view, is harming his judgement, that is if he ever had any judgement worth knowing about.

    Of course the PM is not perfect. There are things that would have been better not done. The continuation of the Intervention. This one is going to come back to bite Labor.

    The shame is that, if Labor, that is Mr. Rudd dumped this scheme, much of the good that is being done, could have continued, without the taint of “Intervention”

    Another is the clergy scheme within schools. This is terribly wrong. The PM could have gone further in dumping WorkChoices.

    There are others but on balance, I would support the PM over Abbott anyday.

  58. Migs and the modern day woman is a phenomena, not a relic. Nor an object.

    It’s been quite an evolution and over a quite short time. I cannot say that women today are not treated as objects, the whole advertising industry appears to revolve around treating them as such.

    I count myself as a semi-attractive female, would I have been treated differently if I was not. I suspect that the answer would be yes.

    Thank you for the phenomena description. I cannot say that the road which a female must travel is made more difficult due to the fact of being a female, as males must likewise travel similar roads. Everyone irrespective of gender, each and every one of us has our own personal challenges.

  59. Memories of some is very selective.

    There has been times when Labor held all the governments, state and federal.

    There have been times when the voters have turned violently against both parties, at different times.

    It comes and goes in cycles. It no world breaking event, that it is the Coalition that is in favour now.

    The voters giveth and the voters taketh.

    That is life.

  60. Look out Tony ..

    Voters tired of political blame games: LNP

    Queensland’s Liberal National Party (LNP) president is not confident the coalition can win the next federal election, warning that Australians are over the blame game.

    Bruce McIver delivered a speech at the LNP’s state convention in Brisbane, issuing a stern warning to his federal colleagues.

    He said he does not believe Australians will vote en masse for the coalition, repeating the unprecedented result seen in Queensland at the March 24 state election.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/voters-tired-of-political-blame-games-lnp-20120714-222c6.html#ixzz20ZInu0Cv

  61. Nothing has changed .. he’s still looking to destroy those reds under his bed…

    Fellow students recall a champion of the right

    Tony Abbott and the woman who accused him of indecent assault were both passionate political activists.

    Helen Wilson was a trainee teacher and student newspaper editor at Ku-ring-gai College of Advanced Education, nestled in bushland at Lindfield.

    At the more cosmopolitan Sydney University, Mr Abbott had burst like a snapping terrier into student politics.

    He took on left-wing students in aggressive battles for positions on the student council and was a spear-carrier in a push to dissolve the powerful Australian Union of Students (AUS).

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/17/1089694611874.html

  62. We need to remember, that Mr. Abbott wanted the independents on side, not to form a government but to call another election.

    Mr. Abbott seems to like unnecessary elections He is promising many more.

    His belief seems to be, I will keep calling them until I get the result I want.

    Like the behaviour of many kids.

  63. Pip,

    I wouldn’t count anything which Abbott did during his university days any more relevant than what Gillard during her university days. The past is the past.

    Dragging the past up only opens up another can of worms and an excuse for a counter-attack.

    That article is reminiscent of the way that the right like to play the game. Although we do like to have some fun with some descriptors, I don’t like the debate reaching back to unsubstantiated rumours and inuendo from years ago.

    I think that we of the left can do better than that.

  64. Cu, on Abbott, Like the behaviour of many kids.
    Did he ever hear and understand the words “no, you can’t….” as a child; probably not. He’s still twelve years old, maybe less…

  65. Cu, which is precisely why the Indies backed Julia, that she was far more likely to run a full term..which of course is why Abbott’s bleats about a new election were so much rubbish. Julia had made a commitment to the Indies to serve a full term, and we Welsh can be a wee bit stubborn at times..when you say that you’re going to do something, then you mean it.

  66. Antony, the difference is that Mr. Abbott’s views and actions have not changed or evolved into more adult thinking.

    He is still that bullying adolescent he was back at that time.

  67. A bit difficult to get inside the psyche of one Tony Abbott. The best description and psych profile was from Mobius.

    Abbott could have (and I do say “could have”, it being just vague guesswork), been from a push me/pull you sort of family. Sinful one moment but Picture Perfect the next.

    Sinful = women, sex, inferiors
    Picture Perfect = the body beautiful, pushing the body to the limit, self-flagelation punishment for the above sinfulness.
    Result = a complete state of confusion where Abbott does not even know when he speaks, whether or not it’s the truth. Abbott said this himself, that he cannot be believed unless it’s in writing. This is no joke, this is one very seriously disturbed individual.

  68. Miglo,

    Many things are in the public domain, but is there an obligation that I should have to agree with these.

  69. AntonyG, no, but it must mean something when all the reports over many decades are so consistent.

    That is what is newsworthy.

    It is as Mr. Abbott would say, same thing, over and over and over.

    The reports are not rumour. They report what Mr. Abbott has said and done.

    There are videos and audio tapes to back up the reports.

    They all appear to tell the same story.

  70. Cu, on this one I would say that I’m with AntonyG. Certainly it would appear on the surface of it to be a pattern of behaviour..and it is highly suspect that some men have a pattern of behaviour relating to women.

    Some men might see a pattern emerging of wanting to relate only to women who they believe that they can dominate. It’s the typical picture of the intelligent man who marries an airhead or wants to converse only with airheads..no challenges, his sense of masculinity isn’t threatened. And that is certainly Tony Abbott to a tee, although he admires intelligent women, he also feels threatened by them.

    However that said, I wouldn’t want to be held accountable for something which I did back at uni..having sex under the bushes at Stonnington might come back to haunt me. 😉

  71. AntonyG @ 2:49 pm

    Normally I would agree with you 100%, especially the bit where this is a normal right wing dirt digging practice, but in the case of Abbott, as has been pointed out, it points to an attitude towards women, and a deeper hard core bullying, that has not changed since those days. The stories of his and the group he hung out with during university misogyny are there and some corroborated, and here we are in 2012 seeing the same behaviour and traits.

    How many times has Abbott gone on TV in response to criticism of his attitude and negativity and state he will change, he will be more positive, he will be kinder to women etc. only to not change one bit.

    He doesn’t even attempt to change. Sometimes the on same day of his making a grand statement about being positive or kinder there he is being negative and cruelly lambasting someone, and nearly always lying.

    If Abbott had truly changed from those university days then we could be posting the comparison and be saying how he’s improved and grown up, instead we find the same immature negative bully that he’s always been and always will be.

  72. Min, he is not been held accountable for something he did back at uni.

    He is being held accountable for doing the same thing over and over and over since.

    The uni story in itself, tells us nothing.

    It is the consistency of the behaviour that is being pointed out. Not the behaviour of a young student.

  73. Mobius Ecko,

    And likewise, I would normally agree with you.

    I’m going to be pedantic here. Abbott was accused of indecent assault, but there was no conviction.

    It wouldn’t matter who it was, I would treat it the same way. It’s rumour and innuendo and from years ago. We don’t like it when Gillard is dished the same way.

    If it’s wrong that Gillard is treated this way, then we must apply the same standards to Tony Abbott. I loathe and detest the man and believe that Australia is heading into nightmare territory should he ever become Prime Minister, but on the other hand I cannot support rumour and innuendo. The facts on Abbott are bad enough, so let’s deal with them instead of drawing on furphies relating to something that he supposedly did a couple of decades ago.

  74. Iain, this is the reason we will be glad that the PM had he guts to put in place, Labor’s policy of dealing with carbon emissions. The PM did this, in spite of it being perceived as unpopular at this time.

    Good governance is not about doing what is popular, but about doing what needs to be done at the time.

    STOCKHOLM — A new assessment of climate change in the Arctic shows the region’s ice and snow are melting faster than previously thought and sharply raises projections of global sea level rise this century.

    The report by the international Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, or AMAP, is one of the most comprehensive updates on climate change in the Arctic, and builds on a similar assessment in 2005.

    The full report will be delivered to foreign ministers of the eight Arctic nations next week, but an executive summary including the key findings was obtained by The Associated Press on Tuesday.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/arctic-melting-sea-levels-climate-change_n_856924.html

    PS We have just had a gathering of scientist at Cairns, saying the same thing. Global warming is here.

  75. Cu, my opinion of Abbott is that he is reptilian. Migs knows what I mean.

    I stand by my statement that although Abbott admires intelligent women, that he feels threatened by them. He would prefer every woman to be an airhead, thus non-threatening..which is why he tries to bring women down to this level – the ironing boards, virgins, stupid women who test his patience. But he prefers it this way as he can thus retain his status as the dominant male.

  76. He appears to like having women around him. I suspect it makes him appear superior as the boss. Maybe he cannot get on with men, as well.

    We all know about his people’s skills.

    They are non existent, along with his inability to negotiate.

    Skills, I believe one needs in truckloads to be PM.

  77. OK AntonyG. I agree with you on the indecent assault but that is not the part of university days I refer to. It’s the corroborated stories of the group he hung out with and their put down of women and the bullying they engaged in.

    It’s that behaviour we see today.

  78. Miglo,

    I never said that it wasn’t. My argument was that one should not keep on hauling over rumour and innuendo from the past, that this is the tactics of the right and a tactic which I prefer to avoid. I doubt that any of us would come up squeeky clean about things which we did when we were in our 20’s.

  79. MO, same here. It is not the criminal matter that comes to mind. It was his behaviour in general.

    We also can recall another incident at the same time.

    His insistence that a baby he believed to be his, be adopted out and him absconding to England. No responsibility taken there. It left the mother with no options.

    Believe it or not, woman were beginning to keep their babies at that time. Marriage was also an option denied the mother of that baby.

    Mr. Abbott appears to believe that at all times, his interests rule.

    I am curious as to the names of that legal team. Could be interesting, if the same names were involved, as some in the HSU matter.

    I am thinking of a name, similar to Lawler.

  80. Mobius, I see a pattern of behaviour also. But I also see that somewhere between age 20 and now that there were choices to be made. I personally think that the choices which Abbott made are those which are important and not some accusation from his student days.

    Abbott, and it’s just my opinion, has substantial issues regarding women. He sees himself as the intellectual, dominant male. You will note how he rarely challenges men, and when men challenge him he runs scaredy cat to the nearest corner.

    Intellectual females such as Roxon, he can but do the out of camera swipe. He probably wrote a number of sniping emails while he was at it.

  81. Anthony G,

    I’m going to be pedantic here. Abbott was accused of indecent assault, but there was no conviction.

    Of course there wasn’t.

    I’m going to be blunt here. Abbott rocked up to that Court appearance with his parents and … a QC. while the other side were blown away by the “firepower” his parents brought to bear!

    They had plans for their lad, and no girls would be allowed to spoil ’em.

  82. Actually I have long thought that some females in politics want to have their cake and eat it as well. There are quite a few who seem to want get down and dirty like any male political srappers but as soon as they get some harsh words in return they elicit a chorus of complaints from their fellow travellers about how cruel such and such is for not treating them like a lady. The ruckus about the ” Bob brown’s bitch” sign is a perfect example of this. If you want in on the game then surely you have to be prepared to play on the same terms as the existing players.

    So with this mindset rampant among the left and in particular the fans of the Gillard government its hardly surprising that you lot should be critical of the way that Abbott relates to women because you all want him to defer to her because of her gender so he is damned if he does (for being patronising) and damned if he ignores gender and goes for the political Biffo because he is being too rough.

  83. Pip, we of the left try to get beyond the rumour and the innuendo, otherwise it’s just playing the game, the office snitch, the office gossip. The name for it is troll whether it be from the left or from the right.

    Abbott has enough to be called to task for without resorting to innuendos about what his parents might have thought.

  84. Iain, and what would a male equivalent of “Bob Brown’s Bitch” have been?

    You say a level playing field, so tell me..what is the male equivalent???

  85. Iain, no one is asking Abbott to defer to the PM.

    One does not have to. The PM is very capable of handling him, herself.

    One only has to watch QT to understand this.

    It is Abbott’s treatment and inability to get on with women in general that we are talking about.

    Do not be misled, that the PM chooses to ignore his behavior, the majority of time, as a weakness on her part.

  86. Iain, we women only want our fair share of the cake, unlike some men that want it all.

    Not only want, but claim they, as men are entitled to the lot.

    I also cannot see why if we want to be a part of the political scene, because we are the women, the price is being abused.

    No, there is no excuses for the signs, that continually put out by opponents of the PM. They say more for those carrying them, than they do about the PM.

    Iain, are you saying, we have to be prepared to play by the rules set by men.

    Why is that so?

    Surely the women have the right to call for better standards.

    Are those standards set by you men, they only way you can complete.

    What is wrong with a level playing field.

  87. Cu, the PM’s handling of Abbott is an interesting one. Abbott the egotist versus Gillard the pragmatic realist.

    Abbott’s problem is that she underestimates her, due to the fact that she’s female. Due to the fact that she is a “she”, he is confused, bewildered as his normal tactics of denigration, nasty swipes aren’t working all that well. Why does she not just lay down and die? Why does she keep getting up to fight another day?

  88. Anthony G, @ 4.17pm, and 4.23pm, reports of the Abbotts’ ambitions for their son are also in the public domain.

    By the way, I used to consider myself to be in the centre left, until the centrepoint moved to the Right.

    Troll?? Really ??

  89. Pip, I don’t get your drift. Why should Abbott’s parents’ ambitions for their baby boy be any more relevant that Julia throwing her teddy bear overboard.

  90. Min, Abbott has never laid a fist on her, causing her to lie down.

    The PM has never had to get up, because she has never gone down.

    We see that in those awful and disgusting cartoons that Iain and others seem to love.

    They seem to ignore the fact, that they indicate that the PM has emasculated Abbott.

    Personalty the cartoon would be more honest, if the PM had a extension of Abbott, within her hand. You know, the part that is hidden by the budgie smugglers.

    The PM does not need aids that allows her to act as a male, to do this. The PM has shown that a strong woman is just as capable of dealing with her male opponents.

  91. Pip, Iain has been around the traps for a long time. You might not like his opinions, but they’re his own opinions and I respect him for this.

    Who gives a FF who would hire a QC. It was not a minor offence, it was a criminal offence and you would have to be stupid to think that parents would not hire the best available to avoid a criminal record for their son. The fact that the son is Abbott is another matter entirely, I’m talking about generalities.

  92. Cu and Min, Abbott has never laid a fist on her, causing her to lie down.

    I do like that, and a lot.

    Well yes Tweed and the dildos, probably says a lot more about Tweed/Geoff/Poh. Iain blotted his copy book by reposting one of them..but he won’t again, will he Iain (looks sternly at Iain).

    It’s gross in that the implication is that the PM needs to have a dick in order to be effective. She can’t have a real one, therefore she has to tie one on in order to screw people.

  93. Min, my point is, if that is the game men say we have to play to be a part of the scene, we can play it just as rough as they can.

    This is the lesson that the PM gives Abbott every now and then.

  94. Min
    The essence of the phrase “Bob Brown’s Bitch” is based upon the very popular LA Gansta slang where to call someone a bitch is to suggest that they are subservient to another. and when you consider the way that she did an about face on the Carbon tax to dance to the Greens’ tune its an apt piece of political commentary even if it is a lacking in subtlety That said there were many placards denouncing John Howard that were just as “bad” during our involvement in Iraq.

    CU

    Iain, we women only want our fair share of the cake, unlike some men that want it all. […]Iain, are you saying, we have to be prepared to play by the rules set by men.

    Why is that so?

    Surely the women have the right to call for better standards.

    Are those standards set by you men, they only way you can complete.

    What is wrong with a level playing field.

    The rules as you put it are what they are and its a tough game played on a no quarter asked and none given basis frankly given the importance of the issues that have to be decided do we really want to have a less robust process?
    I don’t think that the playing field is not level to be honest its tough for all men and women alike and if a woman want to give it a red hot go then they get my respect for doing so just as I respect all who take up the profession of politics.

    Pip
    No matter how great you expectations of wall to wall leftist orthodoxy are you had better get used to the sound of we conservatives making the case against Labor and the Greens, who rather like poor Miss Haveshem face a long time watching the wedding feast grow cobwebs as they wait for their salvation which will be many years in the making. Hopefully those who endure the years of loneliness won’t turn out to be a bitter and twisted by the despair of their situation like that poor woman strangely reminds me of Julia Gillard.

    Min
    re the cartoons I accept the fact that you don’t like the work of Mister Pickering although to be fair he is well known for drawing all politicians naked with their tackle swinging in the breeze. So henceforth I will restrict may admiration of his work to my own page

  95. Iain, it’s all a matter of intent. I would suggest that Tweed/Geoff/Poh’s intent was to be offensive.

    The phrase Bob Brown’s bitch was likewise intended to be offensive, to Bob Brown as a gay man and likewise that the PM would be subservient due solely for the reason of her gender.

  96. Cu, I’m a bit each way with this one…

    I think that I might be the only elected pollie on this blog. I know that especially during my election campaign that I was subjected to smears that would never have happened if I had been a male.

    Once elected, I found my fellows to be excellent people and were willing to accept me based on my ideas, my vision for the future. This is giving due regard to the fact that I was only the 3rd woman elected in 103 years of history, therefore I was not expecting to be accepted so readily by my peers..but I was.

    Therefore I think that it’s a matter of the company which one keeps. I was lucky, however I’ve known of other females politicians who have not been as lucky.

  97. Iain, maybe you can explain why politics is a male game, and women have to play to men’s rules.

    May I suggest, those days are gone. The playing field has changed. It is made up of both sexes.

    The older rules no longer count.

    Women do not believe they have to take on the role of a male to succeed.

    Women are capable and will do it their own way.

    It is the male that has to adapt.

    Sorry, welcome to reality. Men no longer rule alone. They have been joined by the women, and they are not going to go away.

  98. AntonyG, it has been well document that Abbott was seen by the white haired boy by his parents, who believed he was born to be Pope or PM.

    It is said, and no where I know of denied, that his whole family, including his sisters, revolved around this belief.

    This belief was drilled into Abbott from a very young age. All was sacrificed in the family for this outcome to be realized.

    Many decide, including Mr. Howard, I believe they want to be PM. Not many have the belief drilled into them, that they will be.

    It is more that throw away lines, that my son will be PM.

    Whether it has anything to do with Mr. Abbott’s what borders on obsession to be PM, I and I suspect most others do not know.

    I do believe that many from the right do believe they have a god given right to rule.

    .

  99. Catching up,

    I tend to take these urban myths with a good grain of salt. No matter what Mumma and Poppa Abbott wished for their baby boy, does not mean that he ended up warped and twisted as a result, that was all of his own doing. My parents were certain that I would become either a rock star or a merchant banker, neither of those happened. Nor have I won Lotto.

    Abbott could have been the apple dumpling of his family’s eye, and that he ended up a selfish, self-centered pr*ck as a result.

    My concern with Abbott is his delusions that just because he wants something to happen, then it is going to happen. Whether or not it’s to do with his upbringing is anyone’s guess, however I do believe that there is something seriously not quite right with the man.

  100. Iain and scaper, I’d believe Windsor, Oakeshott or Wilkie before I ever gave credence to Liealot.

    Perhaps you can give us all a good explanation for his lies wrt Alcoa’s decisions to review the viability of its Port Henry smelter and the delay in the upgrade of its Wagerup refinery as being a response to the carbon price, when the MD of Alcoa had clearly and publicly stated this was not the case.

    Even after Alcoa had provided a written statement to the Parliament that Liealot was telling porkies, still he persisted with his lies. And the lies go on and on.

    Any of the Independents is worth 100 Liealots; he is the most dishonest, cowardly, repellant creature in politics. It’s no wonder he’s favoured by the wizened foreigner; they’re cut from the same cloth.

    Mind you (Jane shoot me), I don’t in the least mind ironing.

    Min, I can see I’m going to have to have a very severe word with you! ;(

  101. Why should be not expect more from the man who would love to be top pin on the hill.

    This piece argues that it is NOT the job of Opposition to just oppose, but to engage in the process of governance so that the public can benefit from the knowledge and wisdom of all parliamentarians. They are all paid from the public purse. Why should all of them not contribute and be accountable?

    Just to give you an idea of what Opposition leaders are now paid, Tony Abbott’s wage is $347,800. The PM gets $486,550. The average wage of parliamentarians is $190,550. Why should around half the parliament work to legislate for the nation while the other half attempts to frustrate their governance efforts? Why should we waste the talent of half the 226 elected parliamentarians that cost the taxpayer over $44 million annually for their salaries alone, apart from all the other costs of running a federal parliament? And this half IS wasted if all it does is oppose, frustrate, and obstruct the Government’s legislative efforts. It need not be like this, but the adversarial nature of our politics, exacerbated grossly since Abbott’s ascension to leadership, leaves parliament wallowing in this inefficient and wasteful state of affairs.

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/07/14/Is-the-job-of-the-Opposition-to-oppose-NO.aspx

  102. Is this the toxic political playing field that most want?

    Take Question Time in the House as a shameful example of wasted time and talent. Most questions asked by the Opposition since Abbott has become leader have been directed NOT to seeking information from ministers about matters addressed by their portfolios, but have had the intention of seeking to embarrass the Government, or berate it, or demean our PM.

    Repeatedly, questions have been related to the carbon tax, more by far than to any other subject. Because the Opposition has deemed this subject to be the most potent one for inflicting damage on the Government, the same old tired questions come up over and again, sometimes embellished with an anecdote from a business or a proprietor who feels hardly done by the carbon tax, with the byline – ‘a tax based on a lie’ – thrown in for good measure. But the question is always the same: ‘Why is the Prime Minister/Government imposing the world’s biggest carbon tax at the worse possible time’? And of course sending jobs offshore, destroying industries, decimating towns, making our industries uncompetitive, and so on the monotonous spiel goes. And to no environmental benefit at all, says Abbott! What a waste of time this talk is. Nothing ever eventuates, except of course the occasional grab for the evening TV news, which is why the questions are asked anyway. The questions never add a useful dimension to the debate, they don’t even probe relevant aspects of carbon pricing, and they never suggest a plausible alternative.
    http://www.thepoliticalswor

    Can we do better? Should we do better?

  103. What has he achieved in eighteen months? Little, I would say.

    …there are many others, oppositions don’t have to oppose everything. Why then does Abbott?

    In my view it is because he knows nothing but pugilism, as I said in The pugilistic politician, written ten days after he became Opposition Leader. Among other things I said: “Abbott intends to criticize everything the Government does, to fight everything it attempts to do, to refuse to collaborate on anything…”, and later in the piece: “So to what can we look forward? If one can judge from Abbott’s demeanour and performance during the last week, from the look in his eyes, from his aggressive attitude, from his determination to fight in hand to hand combat, we are in for a ruthless, cruel, bare-knuckle fight with no holds barred. This week Abbott reminded me of the familiar scene before a prize fight when the combatants line up – hairy-chested, jaw-jutting, throwing punches in the air, loud-mouthed, asserting their prowess, and promising to knock their opponent out early in the bout.” It’s now eighteen months since those words were penned, and not one word I wrote then has proved to be an exaggeration…..
    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/07/14/Is-the-job-of-the-Opposition-to-oppose-NO.aspx

  104. This is what we have to put up with. A man that plays politics in a vile and toxic manner. A man that they only way he can win, is buy destroying his opponent.

    Is this the Australian way, that is suppose to put great value on fairness and winning by sticking to the rules.

    A vile man, full of hate. A man that still believes he was robbed.

    ………He opposes not just the legislation the Government proposes, but also the Government itself. He has never accepted the Gillard Government as legitimate. He has consistently maintained that it has no mandate for its legislation. So, much of his opposition has been to the very existence of a minority government led by Julia Gillard. He has attacked it, and PM Gillard herself, as much as he has attacked the Government’s legislation. He has set out to destroy the Government, not just its legislation. Most of his ‘motions to suspend standing and sessional orders’ are fashioned to achieve this.

    What I’m saying is that he’s not just insisting: ‘Axe the Tax’, but just as loudly insisting: ‘Ditch the Witch’. This is why his approach is so vindictive, so vitriolic, so venomous, so vicious, so venal, so vituperative, so vandalistic, so vile – ‘the longest dummy-spit in Australian political history’ as Anthony Albanese likes to describe it. ……….

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/07/14/Is-the-job-of-the-Opposition-to-oppose-NO.aspx

    Who are the real fool, the man on the hill, or those who have turned their backs on politics.

  105. Ahh, Cu, you are on fire today ( well most days actually), you can come around and do my ironing anytime 😉 ….. you too Min, Jane 😀 …… I f*’n hate ironing…..( well I would, if I actually did any 😆 )…

  106. Migs, He was’nt born he was bred,trained, shaped and manipulated ( Daddies boy). Shades of Dr Moreau…. half-man, half budgie……

  107. LOVO, I have come to the conclusion, I am sick of women being fair game.

    Lets give them some of their own back.

    As for ironing, from where I sit there is very little done today. Do not know how good the steam works, but it looks less tedious,

    Even the Queen of England, as a woman, does it her way.

  108. Iain, in a comment this morning you asked the question what has the carbon tax done for Gillard? Well here is a concept that is quite foreign to the right of politics.
    Implementation of policy is not supposed to be for the benefit of the government, or vested interests, but rather for the national interest.
    BTW you should not assume as you did in another comment that I have not had any experience in business, to the contrary most of my life has been spent either running my own business or helping others to run theirs.
    Smart employers treat their workforce as their greatest asset, respecting and appreciating the skills that keep their companies afloat and profitable.
    One of the main problems is that for many years companies that were started by skilled people within an industry, have been sold out to or taken over by Accountants with deep pockets but little or no skill or knowledge of the industry that they are buying into, and their workforce are just numbers on a spreadsheet, to be used, abused, manipulated and ripped off for the benefit of the bottom line.
    This sweatshop mentality, is part of the reason why there is a crisis in manufacturing and other industries in this country, and why workchoices, under Abbott was so unpopular.
    If there are now more rumours regarding the resurrection of workchoices, Abbot himself is responsible as after one brain fart “Aus workers will find that I am their best friend”, he followed up with a second, pointing to the GREAT job he did as IR minister a cornerstone of which was Workchoices.
    No wonder his minders won’t let him go on QandA or anywhere where he might be asked a question that takes him off script.

  109. Cu, I used share a house in Nth Sydney with an aboriginal bloke from Ivanhoe (central nsw) who used to ask us if we would like some ironing done… 😯 …..he said it relaxed him 😯 … and he a rugby playing, jock-type, ….. ahh the world of ironing, sports and Tony Abbortt….. 😀

  110. The Rabbott grew up, as far as I have read, as an only son where he was the golden child expected to go on to great things, and his sisters were so much wallpaper. His mother is famously quoted as saying he would become either the Pope or the Prime Minister. As he left the seminary, we have to put up with his overwhelming sense of destiny in the political sphere. I doubt he knows how to turn an iron on.

  111. I must admit my memories of the Whitlam dismissal comes to me, listening to a old wooden floor radio, standing at the ironing board, trying to keep up with turning out four youngsters, neat and tidy.

    it was a time that one could use for thinking.

    As for relaxing, I am not too sure.

  112. I use a steam press. I bought it from the second-hand store for $50. It is a singer household model that you put water in, and I use an iron for things with fiddly bits.

  113. Miglo, do we have any thing new to write about,

    To me, what we see, is the same thing, repeated, over, and over, and over, over.

    Maybe we should look back to the time, I seem to remember in the distant past, when Abbott and Costello considered running together,

  114. Skeptical, spot on! What’s in it for me, seems to be in right whingers DNA, doesn’t it?

    They seem to be incapable of comprehending that a government might legislate for the good of the country, not their billionaire mates.

    LOVO, the last time I ironed anything was when I ironed some hemming tape onto something-I can’t remember what, it was so ling ago. And in saying that, I have revealed another of my domestic hates-hand sewing. 😆

  115. Abbott

    The same year, Abbott fi rst met B.A. Santamaria and was immediately inspired………………….
    ..Charged, after passing his fi nal-year Economics examination, with bending a street sign while under the infl uence of alcohol. Found guilty but no conviction
    recorded ‘due to his good character’. (Duffy, 51)……….

    http://www.bewareofthegod.com/wp-images/Abbott.pdf

  116. Cu, I won’t be posting it until mid week. I agree that we’ve covered a bit of ground on Abbott, but the issue we haven’t touched on his his economic incompetence, which is planned as the third installment in the “Fool on the Hill” series.

    I was thinking of doing something lighthearted for tomorrow. Perhaps another “Punday”. They always seem popular.

  117. ………Abbott met with Santamaria ‘several times a year
    since the mid-1970s’ and since his death has
    continued to think of him ‘several times a week’.
    According to Duffy, Santamaria’s main legacies
    for Abbott were ‘an anti-individualism … and the
    concept of a political career as something akin to
    a religious vocation.’ (168) Abbott said in 2003
    that Santamaria ‘saw politics as a way of giving
    glory to God in the human world.’ (358)…….

    http://www.bewareofthegod.com/wp-images/Abbott.pdf

  118. An interesting tweet from Gus re wixxy, i think it means Ashby.

    NEW MEDIA Gusface ‏@GenGusface
    hmmm ex-plosive stuff-not being run till early next week now – tho hint will be dropped- make of that what you will #MOAR

  119. I think that’s been the hardest thing of all for Abbott to take re not having the keys to the Lodge. It’s that he’s lost out to a woman, and that she keeps hanging in there. Abbott being the sexist bastard that he is must find it galling that her gender is hardly mentioned these days as she outperforms not only himself but all other likely political rivals. She is a better man than he is!

    I think it’s a mark of Julia’s success
    That these days there’s not much mention
    On broadcast media or national press
    About the remarkable ascension
    To power of this brilliant woman,
    Achieved by overcoming challenges
    With skilled resolve near superhuman.
    Discussion on how she now manages
    Her House majority so slender
    Somehow makes seem an irrelevance
    The vital issue of her gender,
    Once thought of such historical significance.

  120. Miglo, plenty of time.

    We have up to the next election, towards the end of next year.

    I am sure there will be enough ammunition to fill in the time.

    Nithing wrong with having a little fun in between,.

  121. IN A sure-fire sign that the Liberals have grown incredibly cocky about their electoral prospects at the next federal election, Tony Abbott has once again raised the spectre of WorkChoices.

    Despite his promise during the 2010 federal election that WorkChoices was “dead, buried, cremated”, the spirit of WorkChoices rose from the dead again this week.

    On Wednesday the Opposition Leader addressed a forum of tourism industry bosses and pledged that if elected he would enact laws that would allow greater flexibility for employers and promised that he “won’t stop there”.

    By Thursday he was bizarrely declaring that he, Tony Abbott, was the best friend of the Australian worker but that “right now we have got a flexibility problem, we have got a militancy problem, we have got a productivity problem.”

    This is, of course, absolute rubbish. Everybody knows that there’s very, very little industrial unrest in Australia at the moment. Australian workers are some of the hardest working in the world, and insecure work not inflexible workers is a major problem.

    Once again, Abbott is resorting to his favourite technique, create a problem where one doesn’t exist (“militant unions”), repeat it ad nauseam (“we must stop militant unions”), and hope the public falls for it (“I will stop militant unions”).

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/as-tonys-chances-go-up-workers-hopes-will-go-down/story-e6frezz0-1226426120314

  122. Recent Highlights
    Clearly aware that electricity costs are a hot topic in the political …
    Not only repeal the carbon tax if he wins office but to …
    Lying when he says he will turn back the boats. If he …
    Been determinedly and deliberately stubborn over his asylum-seeker policy, which includes processing …
    Credited with truly magical powers, despite all the evidence that he is …
    Leaving on a 10-day tour of the US and China, aiming to …
    Leaving on a 10-day tour of the US and China, seeking to …

    http://wotnews.com.au/news/Tony_Abbott/

  123. Min 7:00 pm

    The phrase Bob Brown’s bitch was likewise intended to be offensive, to Bob Brown as a gay man and likewise that the PM would be subservient due solely for the reason of her gender.

    Well I disagree I think the intent was to suggest that Gillard was being subservient to Brown because in her negotiations to get into government she had just rolled over and given him far more than she really had to to get power. Especially by agreeing to back-flip on all of her promises not to introduce a carbon tax. Her gender had nothing to do with it.

    Catching up

    May I suggest, those days are gone. The playing field has changed. It is made up of both sexes.

    Yes sure however you can’t expect special treatment because of your gender either.

    The older rules no longer count.

    Count or not they are what they are

    Women do not believe they have to take on the role of a male to succeed.

    Well that would be a false belief

    Women are capable and will do it their own way.

    They can try but if they don’t succeed then they will have to change or they will be out of the game

    It is the male that has to adapt.

    No its both genders who have to change to recognise the qualities of the other and how those qualities help or hinder the requirements of office.

    Sorry, welcome to reality. Men no longer rule alone. They have been joined by the women, and they are not going to go away.

    And long may it be so but politics is not a game for shrinking violets and women have to learn that you can’t win unless you are willing to play it on the same no quarter asked or given basis.

    jane @ 8:53 pm

    Iain and scaper, I’d believe Windsor, Oakeshott or Wilkie before I ever gave credence to Liealot.

    Well all that proves is that you have a very strong dislike of the coalition and I suspect that it would not matter who was leading them because you would still disbelieve any thing that they say. Its called confirmation bias and you have it in spades!

    Perhaps you can give us all a good explanation for his lies wrt Alcoa’s decisions to review the viability of its Port Henry smelter and the delay in the upgrade of its Wagerup refinery as being a response to the carbon price, when the MD of Alcoa had clearly and publicly stated this was not the case.

    I am unfamiliar with the details of this to be honest, but you would have to be very thick indeed to think that the carbon tax was not right up there in the decision to close an energy intensive plant at this point of time.

    Skeptical @ 10:14 pm

    Iain, in a comment this morning you asked the question what has the carbon tax done for Gillard? Well here is a concept that is quite foreign to the right of politics.
    Implementation of policy is not supposed to be for the benefit of the government, or vested interests, but rather for the national interest.

    Well what has it done for the national interest? As far as I can see its created a huge and unnecessary money churn, it has made our economy less competitive at a global level,and worse yet it will do absolutely zip to reduce GHG emissions. So you tell me precisely what it has done for the nation, please because I want to know 😉

    BTW you should not assume as you did in another comment that I have not had any experience in business, to the contrary most of my life has been spent either running my own business or helping others to run theirs.
    Smart employers treat their workforce as their greatest asset, respecting and appreciating the skills that keep their companies afloat and profitable.

    Sorry if I made a wrong call on your experience of business however your rhetoric comes straight out of the “Marxism (is) for dummies” work book 🙄
    My brother runs a successful business that employs quite a few people and he pays them above the award rate for precisely the reason that you cite here so I am well aware of the argument that you are making and I even agree with you that doing this is a good idea.

    One of the main problems is that for many years companies that were started by skilled people within an industry, have been sold out to or taken over by Accountants with deep pockets but little or no skill or knowledge of the industry that they are buying into, and their workforce are just numbers on a spreadsheet, to be used, abused, manipulated and ripped off for the benefit of the bottom line.

    Strewth! will wonders never end! I agree with you again that the accountant mentality is bad for business, that said a business that does not keep a good eye on their costs won’t make a profit and business that does not make a profit will fail. So as I have said earlier its about getting a balance between competing imperatives. pay your staff enough to retain their loyalty and productive capacity and the need to control your costs.

    This sweatshop mentality, is part of the reason why there is a crisis in manufacturing and other industries in this country, and why workchoices, under Abbott was so unpopular.

    No this is a consequence of the international competition existing with substantially cheaper labour costs and as long as the imported products can be landed cheaper than we can make it here (even after transport costs)our manufacturing will be in big trouble.

    If there are now more rumours regarding the resurrection of workchoices, Abbot himself is responsible as after one brain fart “Aus workers will find that I am their best friend”, he followed up with a second, pointing to the GREAT job he did as IR minister a cornerstone of which was Workchoices.
    No wonder his minders won’t let him go on QandA or anywhere where he might be asked a question that takes him off script.

    Do you really think that the miss named “fair work act” is perfect? (pause while Skeptical searches through his/her copy of “Marxism (is) for dummies”) or do you think that it might need a tweak or two?

  124. Iain, use a woman’s name and the word bitch in the same sentence, believe me..it’s meant to offend and deliberately. There is also the connotation that females have to endure the sort of name-calling which their male counterparts do not have to, nor are expected to tolerate.

  125. Iain, the reason I cannot believe a word from the Liars party is the fact that they are incapable of telling the truth. If the truth was in them, I would have no reason to disbelieve everything that comes from their lying gobs.

    Their mendacity is well documented, so spare us the bullshit. Don’t even try the “carbon tax” crap. We all know who’s been peddling that line of bull. If you chose to swallow it, knowing it’s not the truth, then there’s only one inference to make.

    Come back when you have something not based on Liars Party lies..

  126. Iain, name the shrinking violets.

    You will not find many on the side of Labor. When have you once heard the PM complain.

    The complaints do come quickly from the other side of the house, when the PM takes the time and effort to lay some blows. Pyne gets quickly to his feet, to whine about what the PM has said about his illustrious leader.

    It happens every time.

    For some who are supposed to be tought, they sure have sensitive skins,

    Once again you have made dubious assumptions to base an attack on Labor and it’s leader.

  127. Iain, no act is perfect, It should always be open to review.

    Over times things always change. What was needed yesterday, is often wrong for today.

    This is why what we hear all the time from Mr. Abbott is ridiculous and means nothing. I am referring to, “it worked for Mt. Howard”.

    The fact that it worked in the past, makes it unlikely it will work today. Today the environment and circumstances are not the same.

    Saying that, there is always the chance if better ways of doing things.

    This applies to FWA as to any other legalization.

    I am of the opinion all legislation should have revision clauses, as FWA doe

    I am even in favour of grandfather clauses.

  128. Iain, you have one up on me as I have never read Marxism for dummies.
    I do not agree with everything that Labor does, however I do agree with the basic tenants of Labor philosophy which has a social conscience, as opposed to the unspoken creed of the LNP which is “Every man, woman and child for themselves (unless you are rich).
    And no, the fair work act is not perfect, (few pieces of legislation are) but it is light years ahead of of anything proposed by the LNP whose prime consideration is to make the wealthy wealthier, almost exclusively at the expense of the workers, and trying to defend the indefensible is a pointless exercise, as the people have already spoken on the subject, the only ones that haven’t heard are the LNP and their supporters.
    The sweatshop mentality is a global problem amongst the self centred rich, but certainly pandered to by LNP ideology and policy like workchoices, and you can join Abbott in labelling it anything you like but it doesn’t change what it is ie;
    You can call yourself a progressive thinker, but you are still an LNP hack trying to justify and make excuses for BAD policiy.

  129. Min@ 9:12 am

    Iain, use a woman’s name and the word bitch in the same sentence, believe me..it’s meant to offend and deliberately. There is also the connotation that females have to endure the sort of name-calling which their male counterparts do not have to, nor are expected to tolerate.

    Hmm I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this point.
    jane@ 1:35 pm

    Iain, the reason I cannot believe a word from the Liars party is the fact that they are incapable of telling the truth. If the truth was in them, I would have no reason to disbelieve everything that comes from their lying gobs.

    so you agree with me about your confirmation bias eh?

    Their mendacity is well documented, so spare us the bullshit. Don’t even try the “carbon tax” crap. We all know who’s been peddling that line of bull. If you chose to swallow it, knowing it’s not the truth, then there’s only one inference to make.

    Jane I have been arguing against Climate change nonsense for years and the very last thing that has any relationship to my opinions is the propaganda of any political party. In fact I also have serious doubts about the response to the issue proposed by the coalition. In my mind it is only a tiny bit better than the scheme that we have had foisted on us by Labo and the Greens. Frankly I think that they should just do nothing and save the money.

    Come back when you have something not based on Liars Party lies..

    Well fortunately Its Migaloo who decides when the welcome mat is to be withdrawn rather than you.
    Catching up@ 2:51 pm

    Iain, name the shrinking violets.

    You will not find many on the side of Labor. When have you once heard the PM complain.

    Oh really why do you want specifics? I was talking general principles in my previous comment.

    The complaints do come quickly from the other side of the house, when the PM takes the time and effort to lay some blows. Pyne gets quickly to his feet, to whine about what the PM has said about his illustrious leader.

    It happens every time.

    I don’t get the ABC here so If you have any specific examples you can cite I’ll gladly consider them but I suspect that you are making an erroneous comparison here

    For some who are supposed to be tough, they sure have sensitive skins,

    As manger of opposition business in the house it is entirely appropriate that Pyne bring up any breaches of teh standing orders, that you perceive this as a sign of weakness really shows just how little you understand the processes of parliament.

    Once again you have made dubious assumptions to base an attack on Labor and it’s leader.

    Wrong!

    Catching up @ 3:01 pm

    Iain, no act is perfect, It should always be open to review.

    And reviews I’m sure it will be.

    Over times things always change. What was needed yesterday, is often wrong for today.

    Hmm but not always because sometimes what was right the day before yesterday is better than the day that followed it and can be better tomorrow if it is changed back tomorrow. Think Asylum seeker boats…

    This is why what we hear all the time from Mr. Abbott is ridiculous and means nothing. I am referring to, “it worked for Mt. Howard”.

    Yeah think boats again

    The fact that it worked in the past, makes it unlikely it will work today. Today the environment and circumstances are not the same.

    Ah but when what is done today is so dysfunctional then going back to something that worked before just makes sense.

    Saying that, there is always the chance of better ways of doing things.

    Sure But what are the odds? Labor and the left have this obsession with trying to reinvent the wheel and the always seem to be wasting lots of resources doing so.

  130. Min, it does make one wonder what type of man, believes that poster labeling the PM as “Bob Brown’s bitch” is OK.

    I take it, if his daughter desires to go onto politics, he will be happy to see her get the same treatment. I do not believe this type of behaviour is OK, whether aimed at women or men.

    It is not necessary.

  131. Iain, I have pointed out before. You can use your computer to see the ABC. I suggest that maybe, like here on the Central Coast, one had to adjust their antennae.

    If you never watch parliament, how can you have any opinion on how the PM or the Opposition leader perform.

    I suggest, you will get a shock, if you do watch at how badly Mr. Abbott and his cohorts perform within the house.

  132. Cu, I have been doing a lot of thinking about what you said..

    I have come to the conclusion, I am sick of women being fair game.

    Lets give them some of their own back.

    It seems to be that women to a certain type of male are either/or..either saints or they are whores.

    However, any way which you look at it, when dealing with that certain type of male the sexual connotations are always the first round of attack. In fact, they are not only the first round of attack, but mostly the only method of attack.

    Males are rarely if ever attacked on the sexual level..that is, unless they are gay. It is not about sex, it is about power and domination.

  133. Cu, Abbott and his friends don’t confine their bad habits to Parliament alone, although I will admit they treat it like a schoolyard. Their words and actions are repulsive wherever they are.

  134. Min, or emasculated.

    Abbott will become unstuck.

    When one relies on being a bully or even the parent who believes in using the rod, there is only one path that they can go down.

    They have to keep raising the threats or wield the rod to do more damage, to get results.

    Eventually the stage is reached, that one is no longer afraid, saying enough is enough.

    Mal Bough did not turn up for the LNP Queensland conference.

  135. Cu, I know exactly what you mean. There comes a time when you’ve been belted so many times that you stand your ground and refuse to take the bullying any longer. You stare the bully in the eye and you say, Don’t ever do that again. That is the exact precise time when the bully loses all of their power.

    Abbott has nowhere else to go, he has done his worst.

  136. She said 120 years after its founding, Labor was “still a unique force in the politics of Australia”.
    “Only one party in the history of our democracy has ever stood and fought for working people – for progress and for the responsibility of governing Australia.”
    Ms Gillard said that while “other parties come and go – often promising more, always delivering less … we endure – not a brand, a cause.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gillard-labor-not-done-yet-20120715-223rh.html#ixzz20fiCH89i

  137. so you agree with me about your confirmation bias eh?

    Not at all, Iain. As I pointed out, there is ample evidence that Liealot and the Liars Party couldn’t lie straight in bed. I base my opinion on the facts. You seem to base yours on the shifting sands of Liars mendacity.

    Confirmation bias seems to be your schtick, not mine.

  138. Catching up

    Min, it does make one wonder what type of man, believes that poster labelling the PM as “Bob Brown’s bitch” is OK.

    Do you want there to be censorship of signs at protests and political rallies? No? Well then you should just accept, as I do that some of them are going offend some people.

    I take it, if his daughter desires to go onto politics, he will be happy to see her get the same treatment. I do not believe this type of behaviour is OK, whether aimed at women or men.

    Now I just don’t believe that you feel the same way about signs deriding Tony Abbott as either a liar (Hello Jane 😉 or a “Mad Monk” We play our politics with passion in the country and there is a very wicked sense of humour among the political classes.For instance I well remember an example of political graffiti written on a wall under a railway bridge in Milton that said “Does Flo give Joh a (blow) job?” put up not long after Joh appointed his wife to the senate to fill a casual vacancy. “offensive” to women in politics because of her gender? or fair political comment? Face it its just horses for courses.

    It is not necessary.

    Maybe not, but sometimes its witty and clever

    Iain, I have pointed out before. You can use your computer to see the ABC. I suggest that maybe, like here on the Central Coast, one had to adjust their antennae.

    Yeah I know all that in the first instance I do also have a life and projects in my workshop so I don’t devote that much time to watching broadcast TV to be honest I have a pile of DVD box sets That I fine more immersive and satisfying.

    If you never watch parliament, how can you have any opinion on how the PM or the Opposition leader perform.

    Oh I have seen them before and I have listened to their efforts on the radio and I do watch certain key efforts on you tube

    I suggest, you will get a shock, if you do watch at how badly Mr. Abbott and his cohorts perform within the house.

    Really? I think that you see what you want to see when you watch parliament. in any event debates in the house are only part of the Game, the stuff that goes on outside the house is often far more interesting.

    She said 120 years after its founding, Labor was “still a unique force in the politics of Australia”.

    Yeah I agree with that; they are the only party to win a thumping majority even taking out the sitting PM with Rudd, then knife him while he was till popular with the people to replace him with our first female PM who have taken the party’s fortunes down to the basement of popularity

    “Only one party in the history of our democracy has ever stood and fought for working people – for progress and for the responsibility of governing Australia.”

    And sadly despite her claims to the contrary that party is NOT the ALP

    Ms Gillard said that while “other parties come and go – often promising more, always delivering less … we endure – not a brand, a cause.

    Sadly a VERY Lost cause…

    jane

    so you agree with me about your confirmation bias eh?

    Not at all, Iain. As I pointed out, there is ample evidence that Liealot and the Liars Party couldn’t lie straight in bed. I base my opinion on the facts. You seem to base yours on the shifting sands of Liars mendacity.

    Jane, my dear I really don’t think that you even understand what is meant by “confirmation bias”

  139. Iain, what a weakling. You can only do one thing at once.

    A disadvantage you share with Mr. Abbott.

    Luckily we have a female PM who can do many things at once.

    How can one set them selves up to give advice and have opinions, if they do not take the time to look at what is being said themselves. A dangerous policy, when one cannot rely on the media for truth.

    One can watch the media, when doing other things.

    No, they are not witty or funny. Also they do not convey the same meaning to me, they do to you. To me, they indicate that the PM has emasculated Abbott.

    No need for censorship. I am sure the public will give the message, that such signs are not appreciated, as we are doing. Put up your signs, but be ready for the backlash from decent people.

    have not seen similar signs depicting Abbott. Most keep to what he has said or done. Not his gender or beliefs, for that matter.

    I am quite happy to play the game to your rules, if that is what you want. I am sure we can come up with similar treatment of Abbott. Just give us a little time.

    As for Flo… what else does one expect in Queensland, especially at that time. It was more about the role his wife played, that base on gender,

    He could hand it out if I remember correctly. Cannot remember him complaining, if one has to be honest.. He was not in Mr. Howard’s good books.

    I do not believe that politics, even at that time, is played with the hatred it is now.

    Actually the hour or so after QT is more interesting. If one really wants to learn they turn to Senate Hearings.

    Of course you do not have to look, to see what you want to see.

    You are so superior, that you know what is gong on without looking. That could be what makes much of what you have to saym sound so ridiculous.

    Opinions, Iain, all you have to offer is opinions. No better or worse, I suspect than others on this site have. The difference is, we know what we are saying are our opinions. We can only hope we have it right. Time will tell.

    Ir does not matter what the PM says or does, your mind is closed to any new information.

    I believe the PM has had a very good weekend. That is my opinion, after listening carefully to what everyone has to say.

  140. Jane, my dear I really don’t think that you even understand what is meant by “confirmation bias”

    Iain, I understand what you mean only too well. That you have resorted to snide patronisation shows how arid your argument is.

  141. It is a marvelous skill to take a kernel of truth, cherry pick a few words, mount a argument, that insists what has been said, is the opposite to what one hears, if they listen to the whole speech carefully.

    Yes, it does show our bias, when one listens.

    I do not what it says of those who take that kernel of truth, and twist it to mean something else. Of course it cannot be called anything else but dishonesty, but that does not seem to worry those who practice the craft.

    It is a tragedy whereon one cannot see. It is a greater tragedy when one refuses to see.

  142. jane, time to take the gloves off.

    It is time we play the game their way.

    Patronizing idiots, I would say.

    Shrinking violets?

    jane, things are getting desperate when one has to use “dear”.

  143. Mr. Bolt asked what changes the PM’s mind about turning the boats back.

    Can I suggest that official advice of experts might have HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE CHANGE OF MIND.

    She she she she she

  144. How many times did Pyne manages to say. “she”.

    I would like to say, the government is not in Coalition with the Greens.

    The government is not in alliance with the Greens.

    There was an agreement that the Greens would support the Labor government on the floor of the lower house. This support only related to Confidence motions. This ensures Labor being able to govern.

    The PM agreed in exchange to support some of the Greens policies, which they had in common.

    Maybe these policies might have been bought in earlier or in a different manner.

    Labor did NOT agree to anything that was not on the Labor agenda.

    It is not an ALLIANCE OR COALITION GOVERNMENT.

    Therefore, Ms. Bishop, there was no marriage, for a divorce to occur.

    The PM does not have to break away from the Greens. The PM has never ever claimed to support the Greens agenda, except for a few items that agreement was given to.

    There is still the outstanding demand of Mr. Wilkie on poker machines. That is in the process of being addressed. Not exactly what Mr. Wilkie wanted, but what is doable.

  145. I’ve never known of the ladies here to be shrinking violets. I haven’t read all the comments yet so I’m intrigued to find out who the ‘brave’ one was.

  146. Roswell, Iain has not taken the chance to name the shrinking violets in Labor. He says he is talking generally.

    Maybe Iain can enlighten you.

    Iain has problems that I believe the PM has shown herself to be a strong gutsy woman this weekend.

    Being a woman, we dears do not know the meaning of being bias.

    We are, I believe stupid, that we do not acknowledge his superior knowledge.

    After all, we are only females.

  147. CU exactly.
    Saw Pyne whining that Gillard through her entire speech, did not mention the greens in her ALP conference address, what a moron, what part of the “ALP” conference doesn’t he get?
    The PM spoke at length about the values of the party, the vision for the future of the nation and all things relevant to the ALP.
    Abbott on the other hand used his entire speech to the LNP conference to say…… well….. absolutely nothing.
    At least, if nothing else, he is consistent!

  148. The PM spoke about the long list of successes she has had. The PM then went onto say what is being done next.

    I believe the applause was genuine.

  149. CU @8.56pm, exactly. The government has the same agreement with the Greens MP in the Lower House as it does with the Independents. The Greens are under no obligation to support government legislation, unlike the Nats, who are required to support Liars Party legislation.

    Also the Greens are not privy to Cabinet or Caucus meetings. ie they are two entirely separate entities, unlike the Liars and the Nats.

    The Wilkie bill, CU. As you say not exactly what he wanted but doable. It could be the first evolution of what Mr Wilkie wants.

    I must add wrt your comment @7.57pm, when someone resorts to the patronising little woman, pat on the head stuff, they’ve lost the argument.

    Skeptical, Prissy was obviously trying to reinforce the Liars Party meme of an ALP/Greens coalition.

  150. “Jane, my dear I really don’t think that you even understand what is meant by “confirmation bias””…. fuck’n funny Iain….. maybe not in the same way that you would recognise ‘ the funny’..Iain….. hey. Jane… 😀 ….
    Iain, I just want to confirm my bias, I just now for the first time skipped through your posting… and that Iain is unlike me, I even youse to look at El Gordo’s links trying to find some balance to the debate, but Iain you take the cake… will you for once take up, well at least, Cu’s challenge to put up or shut-up, you never do…. always the rhetoric with no supporting evidence, just more of your ‘opinion’ disguised as sneer..but then again what else have you got…… show the evidence in/of your convictions Iain ( what was it Buddy Holly sang???)

  151. LOVE, you are so harsh.

    Once one starts telling us we are shrinking violets and calling us dearie, they deserve what they get.

    Respect is not on my agenda.

  152. Catching up

    Iain, what a weakling. You can only do one thing at once.

    actually that is not the issue, where I live reception is crap, has been since we bought the place but like a lot of people with a family I ahve to compete with the wife and kids for the use of the computer and economics dictates that we have only a certain amount of bandwidth each month that I likewise have to share with a wife children who want to play games ect so I make the the sacrifice and don’t watch things like Iview.

    A disadvantage you share with Mr. Abbott.

    I’ll take that as a complement because I also think that Multitasking is actaully somewhat over rated.

    Luckily we have a female PM who can do many things at once.

    The thing is she may be attempting to do many things at once but lets be honest she isn’t doing any of tehm that well now is she?

    How can one set them selves up to give advice and have opinions, if they do not take the time to look at what is being said themselves. A dangerous policy, when one cannot rely on the media for truth.

    CU I listen to Radio National most of the time and I spend a good couple of hours reading news Online in the mornings (I generally rise at 4 am)before I have to get my children up and off to school. My first read of teh day is usually the Age BTW before you accuse me of only reading Murdoch

    One can watch the media, when doing other things.

    Not in this house you can’t

    No, they are not witty or funny. Also they do not convey the same meaning to me, they do to you. To me, they indicate that the PM has emasculated Abbott.

    No from your reaction I’d you are especially offended because you feel that Gillard’s gender should not be negatively refereed to. I found the alliteration of the epithet rather clever, and the allusion to the notion of a Labor dog being wagged by a Greens tail came to mind as well.

    No need for censorship. I am sure the public will give the message, that such signs are not appreciated, as we are doing. Put up your signs, but be ready for the backlash from decent people.

    you see that works both ways, when lefties and Labor mouthpieces present such contrived outrage it just makes the general public think that they are being hypocritical especially if they remember examples of bad taste produced by Lefties.

    have not seen similar signs depicting Abbott. Most keep to what he has said or done. Not his gender or beliefs, for that matter.

    I don’t know I think the mocking of his “budgie smugglers” comes close as does the references to him as “the mad monk”

    I am quite happy to play the game to your rules, if that is what you want. I am sure we can come up with similar treatment of Abbott. Just give us a little time.

    Maybe but this example is probably the closes to the anti Gillard sign that so offends you because like that it uses canine imagery and it has clearly required much more serious effort to produce than the “BBB” effort. Are you going to denounce it as loudly? My guess is that you will find reasons not to.

    As for Flo… what else does one expect in Queensland, especially at that time. It was more about the role his wife played, than base(d) on gender,

    Really??? I think that you are struggling a bit here CU

    He could hand it out if I remember correctly. Cannot remember him complaining, if one has to be honest.. He was not in Mr. Howard’s good books.

    You are clearly not from Queensland but you are right that he largely too such things in his stride.

    I do not believe that politics, even at that time, is played with the hatred it is now.

    Rubbish! I am old enough to have voted for Gough (which I did )and to remember the rancour among the left (of which I then counted myself)at the dismissal. The only difference between then and now is that we have the internet to vent on so the piss and vinegar is much more visible now.

    Actually the hour or so after QT is more interesting. If one really wants to learn they turn to Senate Hearings.

    Of course you do not have to look, to see what you want to see.

    What you are watching is not the essence of politics, its the theatre. Do you really think that things like Question time is anything other than a well scripted show? All of the argy bargy is about as real as the impression that you get by watching “Big brother” and the same goes for senate committee hearings.

    You are so superior, that you know what is gong on without looking. That could be what makes much of what you have to say sound so ridiculous.

    No I’m just a humble man who has been watching the to and fro of this game for more than forty years and when you have followed a sport for that long you learn a thing or two about the teams in the league and how they do things.

    Opinions, Iain, all you have to offer is opinions. No better or worse, I suspect than others on this site have. The difference is, we know what we are saying are our opinions. We can only hope we have it right. Time will tell.

    Catching up like you I have a certain level of faith that my opinions may be right and I accept that things may not pan out the way that I expect them to, sadly for you I think that the tide of events are running more in favoru of me being right than they are for you.

    It does not matter what the PM says or does, your mind is closed to any new information.

    Not true at all I constantly update my opinions in the light of new information. but thus far there has been no new information that makes me change my expectation of a Labor train wreck at the next election.

    I believe the PM has had a very good weekend. That is my opinion, after listening carefully to what everyone has to say.

    Really? well I will see how the media perceived it but as far as I could tell it was nothing special

    jane

    Iain, I understand what you mean only too well. That you have resorted to snide patronisation shows how arid your argument is.

    If I have patronised you it is from frustration because you seem to only ever seem argue by abusing and denigrating the political players from the colaition rather than ever considering that be merit may be found on both sides of the speakers chair which is what real grown ups do when they judge the game of politics. Anyway can you actually explain the meaning of “confirmation Bias” without rushing to Google? I don’t think that you can.

  153. Iain, you are wrong once again. I do not denigrate the political players from the Coalition. They do a good enough job of that the I only repeat what they have done.

    Why be frustrated with me. I am entitled to my views, as are you.

    Not that interested in confirmation of bias. Did not run to Google. My
    dig was at the word “dearie”, a put down used by some males when thye are losing.

    Does it not concern you, that some, including myself take offence at many of your comments.

    I do not say or believe this PM is perfect. What I say is that the PM is no where near as bad as you and others make out.

    Yes, there is no way I could ember support Abbott, There must be decent people in the present Coalition, but they keep themselves hidden.

    If my comments are not to your liking, just give them a miss.

    I be the first to make a comment, if I ever come across anything that makes sense from the mouth of Mr. Abbott.

    Maybe you could enlighten us of some of his good points, You can add Pyne and Morrison to that.

    Yes I was around when Whitlam was dismissed. There was some awful politics then, but the depth of hatred was no where near today’s.

    I believe some of the present Coalition might have formed their hatred at that time. Who knows.

    PS I do not use Google. I use Bing.

  154. Catching up @ 7:19 am

    Iain, you are wrong once again. I do not denigrate the political players from the Coalition. They do a good enough job of that the I only repeat what they have done.
    Why be frustrated with me. I am entitled to my views, as are you.
    Not that interested in confirmation of bias. Did not run to Google. My
    dig was at the word “dearie”. A put down used by some males when they are losing.

    I think you missed the fact that the last part of my comment was addressed to Jane, because even though you clearly wear your political allegiances on your sleeve you do better than relying on the cheap name calling that Jane inevitably peppers her comments with.

    Does it not concern you, that some, including myself take offence at many of your comments,.

    No not really, I actaully like arguing with you because you are feisty and thoughtful so I offend you with some sarcastic dig please don’t take it too personally.

    I do not say or believe this PM is perfect. What I say is that the PM is no where near as bad as you and others make out.

    I have no doubt that she is well intentioned and I would have absolutely no trouble being civil were I to meet her in person but I just think that she has made some terrible decisions that are having bad consequences for the country.

    Yes, there is no way I could ever support Abbott, There must be decent people in the present Coalition, but they keep themselves hidden.

    Well I suppose that I could say the same thing about Labor band the Greens but my position is that all parties have a mixture of good and bad, heck I even recognise that Abbott is far from perfect but from my point of view he is by far the lesser of the evils on offer.

    If my comments are not to your liking, just give them a miss.

    Oh you are one of the more lively players here Catching Up so it would be a real shame to ignore you 😀

    I (will ) be the first to make a comment, if I ever come across anything that makes sense from the mouth of Mr. Abbott.

    That is a good ambition to have and I will try to find something said by Gillard to praise too 😉

    Maybe you could enlighten us of some of his good points, You can add Pyne and Morrison to that.

    We have done that before

    Yes I was around when Whitlam was dismissed. There was some awful politics then, but the depth of hatred was no where near today’s.

    Frankly I think that we are in the “if a tree falls in a Forrest” territory trying to compare political acrimony between then and now

    I believe some of the present Coalition might have formed their hatred at that time. Who knows.

    We have always had a fierce rivalry between Labor and the colaition and I would just not ever claim that the colaition supporters are the only ones full of hatred as you do.

  155. I think you missed the fact that the last part of my comment was addressed to Jane

    Iain, it doesn’t matter. You were wrong anyway. :mrgreen:

  156. “We have always had a fierce rivalry between Labor and the colaition and I would just not ever claim that the colaition supporters are the only ones full of hatred as you do.”

    How else can one describe what oozes from that side of the house. Faces and body language says it all.

    Once upon a time. politicians from both sides could tear strips off each other, then retire to the bar for a beer. The likes of Pyne are proud of the facts, they do not have friends on the other side.

    I do not believe one has the right to make personal insults, or conduct a debate in a way that is aimed at causing hurt.

    Sorry, I do take offence, when the comment is aimed at undermining ones gender or beliefs.

  157. Cu, just as per my time as an elected representative, this holds very true…one would retire to the President’s chambers. Often the debate would continue, but there was most definitely an atmosphere of camaraderie plus respect.

    This is where Tony Abbott lost it entirely. Abbott stopped respecting others, backstabbing became the normal form of behaviour. Pyne is but a poodle, he follows the leader.

    As for every entity and every organisation, it is the leader who sets the tone. If the leader is the one doing the backstabbing, then of course everyone else on “his team” will follow suit.

  158. Iain, when the members of the Liars Party do something, anything to merit a word of praise from me, they’ll get it. However, since Liealot became LOTO, no such window of opportunity has arisen.

    From the lies, obfuscations and general deceitfulness in public, aided and abetted by their stooges in the msm, to their disgraceful and childish behaviour in the House, the only response I can possibly have is one of scorn and derision.

    Then there are the sustained and vicious personal attacks on Craig Thomson, who has yet to be charged with ANY wrongdoing, when no less than 5 LNP MPs and Senators either had been convicted of stealing or are the subject of action for misleading and deceptive conduct to the tune of $400,000+, continuing to work as a solicitor while sitting as an MP, breaching the Electoral Act and questionable conduct relating to a very large estate ($1m+) and the LOTO himself facing action for defamation.

    The breathtaking hypocrisy of the LNP wrt Craig Thomson in light of their own misconduct, and their shrill witch hunt and plotting against Peter Slipper, also merits only scorn and derision.

    Contrast this behaviour with the government’s; which has not attempted to take advantage of the situation.

    Their well documented “carbon tax” lies also shows how debased and unworthy of any respect they are.

    Then we have the undignified and childish spectacle of the LOTO attempting to run from the House when Craig Thomson crossed to the opposition benches to register his vote.

    And you wonder that I, and indeed any right thinking person, hold both Liealot and the rest of his fellow travellers in the utmost contempt.

    Their ridiculous and pointless 60+ SSO attempts are another 60+ reasons I cannot and will not afford them anything but derision, scorn and contempt, as I would for the government had it been responsible for the same unedifying and contemptible conduct.

    There are many more examples of disgraceful behaviour by this current opposition and its leader which compound my disgust and contempt.

    Until their behaviour warrants any respect from me, I will continue to register my lack of respect and utter contempt for them.


  159. Miglo

    Iain, it doesn’t matter. You were wrong anyway. :mrgreen:

    Wrong?
    Moi?
    No not possible!
    I am always (of the) right 😆

    Catching up said 1 hour ago:

    How else can one describe what oozes from that side of the house. Faces and body language says it all.

    Its no different in the Labor benches CU, well maybe a bit less of the fear and loathing maybe. Its all part of teh showmanship

    Once upon a time. politicians from both sides could tear strips off each other, then retire to the bar for a beer. The likes of Pyne are proud of the facts, they do not have friends on the other side.

    Really? I have not heard that but when things are as tight numbers wise as they are now if you were the leader of business either for the government or the opposition wouldn’t you be keen to make sure that there was fewer opportunities for backbenchers to say something that they shouldn’t after all we both know that there is no such thing as “off the record” any more.

    I do not believe one has the right to make personal insults, or conduct a debate in a way that is aimed at causing hurt.

    Well how does the saying about heat and kitchens go? and If you hate personal sledging then you must surely disapprove of leaders like Keating and Even the Blessed Gough was not above mocking his political rivals

    Sorry, I do take offence, when the comment is aimed at undermining ones gender or beliefs.

    How on earth can you undermine anyone’s gender? That surely is immutable right down to the DNA in every cell as for beliefs they are only strongly held opinions and hardly sacred.
    Min

    Cu, just as per my time as an elected representative, this holds very true…one would retire to the President’s chambers. Often the debate would continue, but there was most definitely an atmosphere of camaraderie plus respect.

    I don’t want to disrespect your service Min but a shire council is not under the same level of media scrutiny or as subject to the whims of the 24 hour news cycle.

    This is where Tony Abbott lost it entirely. Abbott stopped respecting others, backstabbing became the normal form of behaviour. Pyne is but a poodle, he follows the leader.

    After the dispatch of Kevin Rudd you have the cheek to accuse Abbot of backstabbing? O please pull the other one it palays the 1812 0verture!

    As for every entity and every organisation, it is the leader who sets the tone. If the leader is the one doing the backstabbing, then of course everyone else on “his team” will follow suit.

    Could not agree more with you on this and as Gillard got the job with a political Knife is it any wonder that there is so much rumbling about replacing her within her own party? The trouble is that in her time in the big chair she has so poisoned the well of public support that no one in her party is that keen on drinking form it even though the party faces Armageddon.

  160. Iain, as you do not watch parliament, you have missed what is now occurring.

    The faces on the Labor side have smiles and appear relaxed. They appear to be amused at the going on of Abbott and co.

    I cannot detect any loathing or hate. Derision yes, but not hate.

    I should put it better, you undermine the argument of women by introducing gender, as if this means one as a woman cannot have any worthwhile point of view.

    Gillard accepted the role of PM after Mr. Rudd’s peers lost confidence in him.

    It was the near unanimous vote of caucus that removed him.

    Please do not insult me by saying Howe had any power in the matter. He is nothing but a loud mouth light weight. He showed his lack of judgement and involvement by jumping onto the TV, giving the impression that he was the power broker.

    Yes, there are idiota on the side of Labor.

  161. jane

    Iain, when the members of the Liars Party do something, anything to merit a word of praise from me, they’ll get it. However, since Liealot became LOTO, no such window of opportunity has arisen.

    Well what about Tony Abbott’s “Pollie peddle” bike rides that raise money for charity and have participants form both sides of the house?

    From the lies, obfuscations and general deceitfulness in public, aided and abetted by their stooges in the msm, to their disgraceful and childish behaviour in the House, the only response I can possibly have is one of scorn and derision.

    Were political spin something that only the coalition ever does I would agree with you but you only have to look at Labor’s many utterances on Climate change or refugees to see behaviour that is worse than the opposition.

    Then there are the sustained and vicious personal attacks on Craig Thomson, who has yet to be charged with ANY wrongdoing, when no less than 5 LNP MPs and Senators either had been convicted of stealing or are the subject of action for misleading and deceptive conduct to the tune of $400,000+, continuing to work as a solicitor while sitting as an MP, breaching the Electoral Act and questionable conduct relating to a very large estate ($1m+) and the LOTO himself facing action for defamation.

    Should I remind you about the state Labor MPs doing time up here in Queensland one for taking bribes and another for kiddy fiddling? Or that chap from SA labour? and there was also another in NSW?

    The breathtaking hypocrisy of the LNP wrt Craig Thomson in light of their own misconduct, and their shrill witch hunt and plotting against Peter Slipper, also merits only scorn and derision.

    You only say that because if these clowns fall then so to does your beloved Julia, with out that consequence in the mix I doubt that you would defend either man.

    Contrast this behaviour with the government’s; which has not attempted to take advantage of the situation.

    Bollocks! The attacks on Mary Jo from the government have been just as vicious as anything about Thomson or Slipper, the difference is taht for Tony abbot there was far less at stake

    Their well documented “carbon tax” lies also shows how debased and unworthy of any respect they are.

    Defending the pernicious carbon tax because of alleged “lies” form the opposition is so funny given that the whole tax is based on Gillard’s infamous “there will be No carbon tax under a government I lead” Lie!

    Then we have the undignified and childish spectacle of the LOTO attempting to run from the House when Craig Thomson crossed to the opposition benches to register his vote.

    Not a good look I agree however its all just part of the theatre of the house and hardly any kind of big deal.

    And you wonder that I, and indeed any right thinking person, hold both Liealot and the rest of his fellow travellers in the utmost contempt.

    You hold him in contempt because he is winning the hearts of enough voters to reduce Labor to a rump after the next election and residency in the political wilderness for the next decade, worse still it forces you to defend the almost indefensible ineptitude of Labor even though they don’t deserve your loayalty.

    Their ridiculous and pointless 60+ SSO attempts are another 60+ reasons I cannot and will not afford them anything but derision, scorn and contempt, as I would for the government had it been responsible for the same unedifying and contemptible conduct.

    What are you referring to here please Jane

    There are many more examples of disgraceful behaviour by this current opposition and its leader which compound my disgust and contempt.

    You need more that your gut feelings Jane

    Until their behaviour warrants any respect from me, I will continue to register my lack of respect and utter contempt for them.

    😆

  162. Iain,

    Bollocks! The attacks on Mary Jo from the government have been just as vicious as anything about Thomson or Slipper, the difference is taht for Tony abbot there was far less at stake.

    Can you provide a link to any evidence to back that up??

    Waiting …

  163. Pip, agree. there was never any attack on the senator, except to point out to the Opposition that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. All that most ask for, was the same treatment for both.

    As for Thomson, another week and still no charges from the police or FWA,

    One did question her innocence, which the police involved appear to also question. What was also in question, was the political interference in the matter that came from the Opposition.

  164. So, Abbott is a sceptic…big deal, so is Gillard so that evens up that score. Abbott is not a woman hater, even controlled by women so that does not hold water. Who said, “I am against giving the pensioners a pay rise, they don’t vote for us anyway”? The person has a problem with male and females that are old which is pretty disgusting.

    Abbott was one of two that opposed Workchoices but reading the lefts comments one would think he was the architect of the policy.

    So Abbott is no economic guru but what about Gillard? She can’t even talk properly but was good at helping to rip off the unions last century. If one wants to compare economic cred one would compare Swan and Hockey. Swan is an economic retard and is the laughing stock of corporate Australia but Hockey is no star with the abacus either.

    Hockey can’t even work out the basics…the government has not being borrowing $100M a day, it’s $200M a day. I have been watching the borrowings for three years now and the figure in the link is $13B shy but that is another story that will come out closer to the election.

    http://www.aofm.gov.au/default.asp?NavID=22

    The government borrowed only $1.5B last week to pay for the groceries…crazy!

  165. Iain, I would have to agree about Mary Jo Fisher, the condemnation and derision about her shop lifting charges has been shrill. It seems that Mary Jo has a mental illness, yet this has been derided as “just an excuse”. Mary Jo has made shall we say some unusual “performances”, has now retreated quietly which I think given the state of her mental health is best for all concerned.

  166. Swan and “no economic guru” and “an economic retard”, which is why he was awarded Finance Minister of the Year for his handling of the GFC.

  167. Labor Treasurers have twice been recognised as International Finance Ministers of the Year.

    The Liberals (for all their myth and spin about their supposed economic prowess) have never been awarded.

  168. Can you provide a link to any evidence to back that up??

    I don’t think ians linky thingy is working today Pip 😉

  169. Iain, as you do not watch parliament, you have missed what is now occurring.

    The faces on the Labor side have smiles and appear relaxed. They appear to be amused at the going on of Abbott and co.

    Well look at the clip above and show me where the hate is in the faces of the opposition members, because all I see is bemusement and dare I say it good humour

    I cannot detect any loathing or hate. Derision yes, but not hate.

    Show me the footage then

    I should put it better, you undermine the argument of women by introducing gender, as if this means one as a woman cannot have any worthwhile point of view.

    Well I would say that women undermine the strength of their own arguments by taking too much offence at derisive epithets just because they have some vague connection to their gender. Did you look at the picture I linked to earlier?tell me whay that is any less inoffensive than what was said about Gillard in that sign.

    Gillard accepted the role of PM after Mr. Rudd’s peers lost confidence in him.

    It was the near unanimous vote of caucus that removed him.

    surely you don’t believe that?

    Please do not insult me by saying He had any power in the matter. He is nothing but a loud mouth light weight. He showed his lack of judgement and involvement by jumping onto the TV, giving the impression that he was the power broker.

    Oh don’t for one minute think that I am any sort of fan of Rudd, I took great delight in referring to him as “Brother Number One” while he was in office but you would have to be a fool not to accept that the method of his removal was both unedifying and rather messy. You would also be foolish to think that Gillard knew nothing of the plotting.

    Yes, there are idiots on the side of Labor.

    Sure are and probably more than you think

  170. “Abbott was one of two that opposed Workchoices but reading the lefts comments one would think he was the architect of the policy.”

    In a recent speech he was letting everyone know, he was minister at the time.

    I do recall Howard taking the job off him, because he was not up to the task though.

    Maybe Swan is a retard, but the country has done OK under his reign as Treasurer, The proof is in the eating.

    Gee, the likes of scaper are sounding desperate these days.

    “You need more that your gut feelings Jane”

    I believe that jane is more than about gut feelings. I believe she mentioned their behaviour.

  171. kitkat they bought in a GST. Oh that’s right the most complex thing about bringing in that was organising the multimillion dollar Unchain My Heart propagandaad campaign.

  172. Min@ 1:39 pm

    Iain, I would have to agree about Mary Jo Fisher, the condemnation and derision about her shop lifting charges has been shrill.

    Thanks for that Min ;).

  173. Even the Daily Tele is picking up on Abbott vs WorkChoices..when right wing rags such as the DT start calling Abbott “incredibly cocky” and using terms such as “bizarrely”, then Tony is looking at a BIG potential problem…

    IN A sure-fire sign that the Liberals have grown incredibly cocky about their electoral prospects at the next federal election, Tony Abbott has once again raised the spectre of WorkChoices.

    Despite his promise during the 2010 federal election that WorkChoices was “dead, buried, cremated”, the spirit of WorkChoices rose from the dead again this week.

    On Wednesday the Opposition Leader addressed a forum of tourism industry bosses and pledged that if elected he would enact laws that would allow greater flexibility for employers and promised that he “won’t stop there”.

    By Thursday he was bizarrely declaring that he, Tony Abbott, was the best friend of the Australian worker but that “right now we have got a flexibility problem, we have got a militancy problem, we have got a productivity problem.”

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/as-tonys-chances-go-up-workers-hopes-will-go-down/story-e6frezz0-1226426120314

  174. Iain, I got hauled across the coals for stating that Thomson was innocent until proven guilty. Mary Jo has used the mental illness defence and it’s her right to do so. I am not privvy to her medical records and so it would be hypocritical to cast aspersions on the truth or otherwise of these.

  175. “She can’t even talk properly”

    Sounded pretty good yesterday.

    I know you and Bolt are trying to get those old, disproved allegations going once more.

    Not having much luck.

    Maybe because they have been proven false on more than one occasion.

    They are not news.

    PS. Abbott is not that great of talker, with his er er er when asked a question.

  176. Cu, I had to laugh about the “she can’t even talk properly” thing..my grandmother was also Welsh..sounded exactly the same..

  177. Iain, I would have to agree about Mary Jo Fisher, the condemnation and derision about her shop lifting charges has been shrill

    True Min, but the condemnation and derision didn’t come from members of the government, unlike the extreme condemnation and derision coming from the opposition in the Thomson and Slipper matters…

  178. Bacchus, I think that the difference was that in the Mary Jo case that in spite of a few nasty swipes about MJ’s mental health being nothing but a ruse..and this just shows ignorance of the issues surrounding mental illnesses..that justice was allowed to proceed unimpeded.

    God only knows what convoluted scheming which has gone on in both the Thomson and Slipper matters.

  179. Do we need to point out again that ians linksky thinksy (tabot speak for url) still doesn’t appear to be working?

    Or is it because people are asking him nicely?

  180. While I am at it. would someone tell Mr. Truss, who said yesterday that Mr. Howard had a broadband scheme ready to go, which would have work.

    The truth is that Labor attempted to bring in a similar scheme, that went the way of Mr. Howard’s 18 attempts, nowhere.

    It appeared that the private sector was unable or unwilling to come to the table.

    Mr. Howard ignore the role of Telstra, that prevented any progress. It needed the separation of the two arms of the company before any progress could be made.

    This mess was the result of the way Howard blundered the sale of Telstra.

    Labor realise this, and went down a new path, which id giving us a nationwide scheme that will take us well into the future.

  181. So ian proves he knows how to do linsky thingys, yet chooses not to put anything except snippets of tabot dribbling.

    What about these economists supporting him, or the attacks on Mary Jo from the government, things he has specifically been called out on, instead of QT garbage which prove nothing.

  182. From the Opposition clip says it all. Believe me, there are many long faces behind that man today. he only comes to life, when he stands to do his daily stunt, which always consists of nothing more than abuse.

    Believe me, he cringes the couple of times the PM stays in the chamber to reply. The smiles soon disappear.

    Like cherry picking words and phrases, selected videos are inclined to mislead.

  183. Page 87 from “Battlelines”..not that I have a copy, they’re currently at bargain basement price of $2.95..

    Work Choices was a political mistake, but may not have been an economic one.

    Good for wages, good for jobs and good for workers and let’s never forget that.

  184. I’m seriously looking for the “hate” you keep telling me about catching up but All seem to find is footage of the opposition enjoying the game, like this one

    look at the faces of the government members behind Gillard what a glum lot! compared to those behind Tony Abbott…

  185. Well Min if you see another copy at that bargain price please buy it for me and I’ll gladly repay the cost and postage!
    Sounds like great value to me!

  186. Swan the world’s best treasurer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

    It was the Hawke/Keating and Howard governments that did the hard yards that put us up there as the best.

    The guy is an idiot that said in Parliament that the miners were only paying 13% tax…was shot down badly by Hockey. He didn’t even realise that the CO2 tax was going to attract GST as it filtered down the chain.

    That’s the problem with Labor, all but one of them have not a clue how the economy works, you get that from union scumbags!

    Oh, in case anybody actually looked at the OAFM site I linked, that is the book value, not the total debt which is over 50% GDP or more importantly…over 200% of government yearly revenue. All that money blown and SFA to show for it.

  187. Actually i think that clip shows Tony in Quite a good light Min Sure he does not support Gay marriage but so what? he comes across as caring and compassionate none the less.

  188. He didn’t even realise that the CO2 tax was going to attract GST as it filtered down the chain.

    Wouldn’t mind a link for that one either.

    Sounds like more misrepresentation from ltdnews to me.

    btw, there is a third thread to this one, might wanna move it there.

  189. Iain..you mean to say that after all this time, that you still haven’t bought a copy of Tony’s “Battlelines”..well, I must say..I am completely shocked…

  190. SFA, pretty simplistic. I and many other people I know are pretty happy that we have stayed out of recession, kept our jobs and not reniged on our mortgage payments. Petty shortsighted and mendacious argument really, but what can you expect from a CONservative.

  191. …go on Iain, fork out..it’s only $2.95…

    Yea, but how much once you apply the Tax on Carbon?

  192. Stayed out of recession? The building industry has been in recession for two years. Retail is hanging on by their fingernails and manufacturing is at the onset of the death roll.

    Take mining out of the equation and we have been in recession for almost two years.

  193. Scaper, you should hightail it down to Victoria where the Baillyou-out government has over 35,000 building blocks in reserve.

    Retail is indeed doing it tough, but mostly due to online buying..these are the rorters, who do not have BSB numbers and who the Dept of Taxation are about to come down hard on. Online buying is no longer a cottage industry and the Tax Dept is fully aware of this.

  194. So what’s the unemployment rate? Interest rate? Growth figures? As the saying goes “interest rates will always be lower under the Libs….except when they aren’t”.

  195. Actually, compared to some of the right wing nut jobs ruling the air waves he is indeed caring and compassionate.

  196. Min,

    The things which springs immediately to mind are 2 things – asylum seekers and Tony Abbott’s Green Army. The Green Army seemed to disappear circa 2010.

  197. By the way, Truss was wrong in that video. There is no so called carbon tax on petrol.

    Iain, is trying to convince me that Abbott does not appear as if he hates the PM in the house.

    I must be mistaken, it is looks of endearment and love that Abbott. Pyne and Bishop sends across the table.

    How wrong can one be.

  198. Sorry it is so long. Sometimes lies need to be exposed in full.

    news The Federal Leader of the Nationals, Warren Truss, has again made a number of major factually incorrect public statements with respect to Labor’s National Broadband Network project, in an extended interview on the topic riddled with mis-statements about the project and his own party’s rival policies.

    Last week, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy and Prime Minister Julia Gillard attended an event in Townsville in North Queensland where the pair announced a major NBN satellite contract and highlighted details of the NBN’s rollout in areas such as Townsville, Mackay and Rockhampton. Truss, whose own electorate of Wide Bay is in Queensland, appeared on Channel Ten’s Meet the Press program over the weekend, and fielded several questions regarding Coalition policy with regard to the NBN and broadband access in general.

    In one answer, Truss referred to the previous Howard Government’s OPEL contract signed in November 2007. The project, as part of a deal signed between Optus, Elders and the Government, was to have seen a combination of WiMax, ADSL2+ and fibre backbone infrastructure deployed to rural areas to fix broadband blackspots. However, the project, unlike the NBN, did not include a satellite component, with the Howard Government instead preferring a separate subsidy approach to rural satellite provision, which saw regional Australians directly provided with funds to offset the costs of buying satellite services from existing providers.

    However, Truss erroneously claimed the project did contain a satellite component.

    “Had the Coalition been elected in 2007, those satellite services would already be in place, the wireless services would already be in place under the Optus contract,” Truss told the Meet the Press interviewers. “So we had committed to provide those services — they would have been in place … we were very much a part of putting in place the Optus contract, which would have delivered, and would have delivered by now, wireless and satellite services to people who live in regional Australia,” Truss added.

    Truss’s inaccurate claim is not the first time a member of the Coalition had claimed that the OPEL contract — cancelled by Minister Conroy after the then-Rudd Government took power in November 2007 — contained a satellite component. Earlier this year, the Coalition’s regional telecommunications spokesperson Luke Hartsuyker issued a brief media release, stating: “The OPEL contract included a mixture of technologies, including satellite.”

    Truss’s comments also contained a number of other inaccuracies…………

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/07/16/nationals-leader-grossly-inaccurate-on-nbn/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29

  199. Truss is a serial offender. That is not news, I suppose. Most in the Opposition are.

    History of misleading comments
    The comments by Truss over the weekend represent the third time in six months that the Nationals Leader has made major factually inaccurate statements regarding the NBN.

    In May, Truss was quoted in an article published in the Noosa News stating that not a single person in the Wide Bay electorate or Noosa areas would be able to connect to the NBN until at least the latter part of this decade. “The people of Wide Bay bear their share of the liability for the NBN, but no one is getting any benefits,” he said. The comments by the Nationals Leader echo — word for word — a media release he issued in March this year, in which he alleged that the NBN had proven to be “nothing but a cruel hoax” and a “monumental debacle”.

    However, Truss was factually incorrect in his statement that no residents in the Wide Bay electorate will receive access to the NBN before the later years of this decade.

    In mid-2011, NBN Co started providing access to an interim satellite……………

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/07/16/nationals-leader-grossly-inaccurate-on-nbn/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29

  200. Anyone in disagreement with this statement? I suspect that scaper might be.

    opinion/analysis
    I would like to see someone (perhaps Labor) initiate legal action in order to stop senior Coalition figures from making blatantly inaccurate statements with respect to the NBN. It doesn’t get much more black and white than this. Truss is claiming that fibre isn’t being rolled out in some cities in Queensland, when residents in those cities are already receiving services over the fibre, and also claiming that the OPEL policy included a satellite component, when in fact it did not.

    What needs to be done to stop these politicians blatantly misleading the Australian public on the NBN? Legal action? Parliamentary censure? A report published by an independent adjudicator such as the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission? I don’t know. But something needs to be done. If you are a CEO or another major public figure such as a sportsperson, you can’t get away with blatantly misleading the Australian public. Why is it that these politicians can get away with it, with no consequences?

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/07/16/nationals-leader-grossly-inaccurate-on-nbn/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29

  201. Take mining out of the equation and we have been in recession for almost two years.

    Take mining out of the equation and we have been in recession for almost forty years.

  202. Tom R,

    Take mining out of the equation and we have been in recession for almost forty years.

    😆 😆 😆 😆

  203. Take mining out of the equation and Costello wouldn’t have had a surplus for Howard to put his grubby little hands into to buy votes from middle Australia.

  204. Min @ 3:45 pm

    …go on Iain, fork out..it’s only $2.95…

    Tell me where to buy it and I’ll get a copy at that price But I live in the country and I don’t get to many bookshops to be frank.

  205. Tell me where to buy it

    Try cheap as chips 😉

    Worth the investment for ya’. It might even mention an economist who backs his policies (although don’t be disappointed if it doesn’t)

  206. What a great blog…I laughed so hard it hurt.
    First off all you so called liberated left wingers going on about Climate Change…talk about the blind leading the blind.
    First off …do any of you eat meat?
    If you do…you may be interested to know that most of the rainforest destruction worldwide is caused by raising beef cattle, so if you eat meat you may like to stop.
    That will help with de-forestation on a mass scale.
    1/6th of the land is needed to raise crops for feeding the world as opposed to raising beef cattle.
    But you are not interested in that are you? Neither is Gillard, Swan,Bob Brown, Milne and the rest of the mind numbed mob that you obviously think can lead and dictate to others
    The carbon tax wont help …everyone knows that, its an Al Gore/Maurice Strong creation, and they and others incl Goldman Sachs will benefit, the climate will not.
    So dont talk about the delicacies of climate change, all you do is show your ignorance.
    Science has had hundreds of years to study the human body at close range and still has not come up with a cure for the common cold, and they are going to cure the atmosphere based on studies from weather balloon data etc…that no one agrees on? cmon.
    Let them cure the cold first then we may listen.
    I wont even go into all the other ins and outs of this massive scam that dopey Gillard pushed on Australia.
    And lets talk about that sleaze Windsor, he sold his farm to an oil concern and spent $5.9 million in recent months buying three northern NSW farms in a region targeted for coal-seam gas exploration.
    And he voted for the carbon tax, what a total hypocrite…and you actually believe him when he says Abbott would sell his ass for the job, I would not believe a single word that came out of his mouth, you can see it in his body language, he is a total sleaze and a liar and only out for himself, ask his electorate and ex friends.
    Like it or not, you are going to have to stomach Abbott, Gillard is gone soon…and good riddance.
    No matter how many names you call Abbott, no matter how stupid you say he is (easy to do from behind a typewriter) only the left wing disciples are listening and the ditzy GetUp crew.
    Fact is Abbott is probably a lot smarter than you are, and definitely smarter than Gillard…I doubt wether he gives a toss what you think of him.

  207. Pingback: We’ve been saying that all along | Café Whispers

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