Is Whyalla Burning?

Whyalla was meant to be wiped off the map at midnight this morning. It wasn’t.

Tony Abbott lied.

The place is a shit hole. For once I hoped Abbott would be right. I’ll never trust him again.

Anyway, Hollywood is going to make a blockbuster about the obliteration of Whyalla and they’ve asked the good people of Cafe Whispers to come up with a name.

So can anyone think of a title?  Here are a couple to kick us off:

Is Whyalla burning?

The day Whyalla stood still.

173 comments on “Is Whyalla Burning?

  1. Inga, it doesn’t have to be spelled correctly. Are you forgetting that it’s been removed from the map? It shouldn’t really exist. :mrgreen:

  2. The carbon tax is a disease that won’t kill quickly but it will kill businesses all over the country So enjoy your jokes about it now but in time you will all realise that it is Labor’s “Workchoices” and after next election when the new leader of the new Labor opposition is asked if they would revive it they will be declaring that it is “dead buried and Cremated”.

  3. Awww Boo hoo, the world didn’t come to an end so poor little Iain has to resort to what wingnuts always resort to, fear and smear.

    Explain all those record number of businesses that closed under Howard during the greatest sustained economic boom in Australia’s and global history?

    Howard even used taxpayers money to bail out his brother’s failed business. None of the other similar ones of course, just his brothers.

    As a personal example. The SME I work for nearly went broke during the height of Howard’s reign at a time Costello couldn’t keep count of the revenue he was raking in. At one stage we took pay cuts and cut just about everything to keep the company afloat. The company only really started booming after the 2007 election and in the last couple of years is in the position of having to knock back contracts. We have eight more staff and have opened a third office interstate.

    So are the board and management talking about cutting back or closing down because of the carbon price? Don’t be stupid. The talk is all on managed expansion, more staff, a high tech engineering division opening up and new products.

    I suspect that will be the case Australia wide with only another GFC because of Europe or China being the dent in that.

    Of course just as Iain has already started doing, has been for a while actually, the wingnuts will come out in force and blame every negative from a dead dog to dud directors sending companies under on the carbon price. Nothing is more certain.

    Just like at #carbocalypse we just need to keep calling it for the bullshit it is, as that’s all they have, bullshit wrapped in fear and smear.

  4. Möbius Ecko

    Awww Boo hoo, the world didn’t come to an end so poor little Iain has to resort to what wingnuts always resort to, fear and smear.

    Fear?
    NO
    smear?
    How so?
    I am looking at the bigger picture here and the political reality that this new tax is going to be the decisive issue that will destroy Labor’s political capital fro the next decade at least. Surely you ore not fool enough to think that Gillard has any chace at all of winning over the public on this issue? She has been a spectacular failure so far in all of her attempts to do so.
    anyway my thoughts on it are here: http://iainhall.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/gillards-climatechoices-begins-today/
    The tired demeanour of so many of the usual Labor suspects spruiking this poisoned chalice should tell you something, they know that they are on a hiding to nothing here and that they only way is down for their party…

  5. Don’t cry for me Whyalla, the truth is I never left you (would have like to, could never find the taxi fare).

  6. And how many years of CO2 tax compensation will paid to One Steel when the government realised that the plant would shut down as the tax would have been the last straw?

    Enjoy the tax that does nothing as it won’t last two years because it will be repealed. The majority don’t want the tax and they will eventually get their way at the next election…democracy.

    The tax is Labor’s Workchoices…that will keep them out of government for three terms whilst the Greens steal their base.

  7. Patricia..thinking of you. Knowing you, you were so grateful that it was you and not your pup. That’s the way you are.

  8. Scaper, now IF you knew that the carbon tax was coming in..and you had known about it for some considerable time..then surely common sense would dictate that you would have factored this into your business plan.

  9. Why should I factor in a tax that I pass on in my business plan?

    My plan is simple, windback to just me, bring in enough to cover overheads and pay no tax to this government. When they are gone, ramp up again and steam ahead.

    I was not joking when I said I have lost 90% of my personal wealth!

  10. Scaper and why should you factor in a tax into your business plan..umm..basic common sense..

    Scaps, I know. Life often throws one a curve ball and you’ve had yours. Time to take a deep breath and start again. Hell, you’re not that old.

  11. I was not joking when I said I have lost 90% of my personal wealth!

    From your description, you didn’t lose it, you killed it 😉

    All because of petty ideology from the looks

    Imagine for a moment if Labor do the unbelievable and win the next election. Will your ‘business plan’ remain in place?

  12. So scaper you are planning to pay more tax than you do now to the next government if it’s Abbott’s?

    His carbon scheme has been costed and comes out at $64 per tonne with no compensation to households or businesses. Average households alone are in for $790pa with no compensation and the poorer you are the worse off you are.

    This for a scheme that hands billions of taxpayers money to big business for little return and very little impact on reducing carbon pollution. Remember Abbott has also committed in concrete to deliver the same 5% reduction of 2012 carbon levels in 2020, but his scheme for all it’s massive cost has no hope of achieving it, not that this government’s will be all that effective either, but it has the plus of being the best to achieve the aim, something Abbott said when he was in government.

    Then on top of that your business, and the one I work for, has to pay a tax to fund his massively generous paid parental scheme, that yet again favours the wealthy.

    All this and a lot more with no money apparently.

  13. Scaper, Port Pirie’s had its own problems for 15 years, courtesy of the old BHP. BHP didn’t care about the town or its people. Profit came first.

    Nobody cared about the town then, so why should they now?

    Howard didn’t visit the place and moan that it’d soon be wiped off the map. The media didn’t harp on that the sky would fall down on it, even though it was.

    If the Liberals or the media start caring about the place now, all of a sudden, then it is just another display of hypocrisy.

  14. So Iain if this $23 per tonne (and it’s not really that either but that’s another story) is going to destroy Labor’s capital for a decade, and this is a policy as was shown this morning on ABC, that was Howard’s preferred one and one Abbott said was the best way to achieve the aim, what is Abbott’s $64 per tonne for little outcome and with no compensation going to do to the Liberal’s capital?

  15. Migs, just giving a heads up and the Libs will jump on it and everything else that happens as that’s politics. If the tables were reversed Labor would do the same.

  16. For whyalla – Hanrahan’s hideout.

    as for port pirie, i never noticed any lnp concern over the lead, etc., pollution while it was being pumped over the city by the smelters.

    trolls still can only manage propaganda based on lies, it seems.

  17. Pterosaur, while the dangerous levels of lead were being dumped onto the community the LNP were happy. It was the sign of a strong economy. And when the company said it was shedding jobs by the 100s the LNP said nothing.

    I had a local interest in the issue. As you are aware, I lived just up the road a 100ks.

  18. Enjoy the Gold Coast while you can before the wrecking ball of the carbon tax destroys it.

  19. yes Migs, when i lived at “porter gutter” the interschool sports days held at pp were often cancelled because of the pollution, and even if not, playing footy and athletics made some participants crook.

    – of the 3 “iron triangle cities ” pp was the worst in pollution, whyalla was not quite as bad.

    pa was still a working port, mainly exporting copper concentrate – nasty stuff that.

  20. No one has mentioned the big polluters actually will lift their game and so reduce the amount of carbon they dump into the atmosphere.
    Thus far they could do this without cost.
    My money is on about a 40% reduction Carbon pollution in any major industry.
    Any one for a bet????

  21. No one has mentioned the big polluters actually will lift their game and so reduce the amount of carbon they dump into the atmosphere.

    It has been mentioned John, it simply hasn’t been reported.

    It also why a Price on Carbon is so much more effective than a Tax on Carbon

  22. John..clearly the big polluters will go down kicking and screaming, but in the end they’ll wear it.

    It’s been factored in as per Qantas for at least the past year..they are just enjoying their Look at Me moments.

  23. Good point John. Ironically, Port Pirie is a great example of what happens when industry pumps pollution into the air and nobody asks them to stop, let alone do anything about it, apart from the residents.

    The people in that town have been begging for decades for something to be done.

    And in more irony, Port Pirie is a Liberal redneck stronghold and the folk there can now turn their anger to the carbon tax.

  24. From a long-time personal friend who until this morning had never displayed a sense of humour, or even a failed attempt at it as demonstrated below:

    The religious order of the Arab nations had gathered in a South Australian town to hear the esteemed leader.

    Esteemed Leader: “You all have to pack your bags and get out by the 1st of July”.

    Arab Nations Leaders in chorus: “But WHY ALLA?”

  25. I really don’t know what the fuss is about….oh that’s right, it’s a labor initiative…silly me.

  26. Tweet.

    Hey Tony! That carbon tax you wanted in 2007 has finally come into effect! You must be super chuffed. ‪

  27. Mo, and he’ll no doubt take credit for it once he discovers the sky is intact and will stay that way.

    Not only will he take the credit but maybe chuck in “it was my idea and Labor stole it”.

  28. Retweeted the above to @TonyAbbottMHR. No surprise it didn’t get shown.

    Good point made at #carbocalypse about all the anti-carbon tax rallies that were supposed to happen today. What did happen to all the anti-carbon tax rallies?

  29. Hey Tony! That carbon tax you wanted in 2007 has finally come into effect!

    Not entirely true ME

    tabot was arguing for the Carbon Tax Gillard said she would not pursue. A tax on consumption. What we have is a price (or a ‘tax’ is you want) for production

    It’s this nuance thing all over again 😉

  30. Good grief we now have the big contest between Victoria and Queensland where both treasurers are claiming their state is the worst affected by the Carbon Tax.
    So Bailleau who appears never to be able to make a decision and Newman who promised Electricity costs won’t rise and public servants won’t be sacked are both, finding leadership on Carbon too hard. So instead cry for sympathy by telling their electorates they are suffering more.

    Haven’t Bailleau and Newman heard of the internet? This silly politicking is so like the headlines Joh would use back in the days where unless you travelled to a State you never heard what happened there.

  31. I think there is a rally in sydney, the tele says so
    “1000s have held up traffic, carrying ditch the witch, and blow up baseball bats to smash the tax”

    knowing sydney it could be blow up witches and baseball bats for the smash and grabs.

  32. “Big shame Whyalla”.

    Actually they won’t make a movie about it, they don’t want Abbott to start as a movie critic.

  33. Tom r
    they must all be hiding behind the protestor at the top of the steps with the placard or the 2 police out number protestors.

  34. Sue the ABC said 50 and 2UE said 55 so I don’t know where the 1000’s came from.

  35. Mobius

    “I don’t know where the 1000′s came from”

    The Telegraph, the home of honest Steve Lewis.

  36. The tele now claiming 2000 protestors but no photos, no photos abc, no photos smh.
    no story in abconline, smh headlines their story with 100s march then in story have story that could have come from news ltd.

  37. Reading the stuchbery tweets, apparently Alan Jones was quite miffed that people did not like him calling the PM “juliar”. So reading between the lines he must have really had some home truths relayed to him with his “chaff bag” comments because he left the country for a couple of weeks.

  38. 4uSue 😉

    Don’t know why yours didn’t work. I just make sure, like youtube vids, that I don’t do anything after pasting the link, no spaces, enter, nothing

    Hope it helps 🙂

  39. Don’t worry folks, Tony Abbott will dream up another Whyalla in due course. He’ll pick another place that Labor will destroy from some yet-to-be-announced policy.

    This time I hope he picks a place that is really dying, like Adelaide. :mrgreen:

  40. I wonder if the sky fell on el gordo.

    I get the distinct impression that grodo is busy in his cave frantically attempting to divide Whyalla by zero as we speak 😉

  41. “then surely common sense would dictate that you would have factored this into your business plan.”

    Min,, it appears that Coles and Woolworths have done as you say. The result is that they feel there is not need to raised their prices.

    As doe Whyalla, there is another similar city north of Sydney. In my youth it was noted for and relied on heavy, dirty industries such as steel. It was a city that suffered fro the extremes of boom and bust on a regular basis.

    it was city that few wanted to live in. It was known for it’s dirty coal emissions.

    The end of the world came, so many thought when these industries closed down.

    Today Newcastle is a thriving city, proudly showing the beauty that was hidden beneath that smoke and smog.

    No, if the heavy industries did collapse as predicted, it could mean the rebirth of Whyalla. I know nothing of the city, but I would be surprised if there was not also beauty hidden by the heavy industries it relies on today.

    The same goes for the South Coast of NSW. I know there is much beauty there to be revealed.

    Progress, means that industries need to go, for new ones to emerged. There are other counties in the world, such as Norway of those who rely on Hydro electricity. It makes more sense for adaptation to occur. We now live in the global economy. It makes sense for us to change to what we do best.

    Not that I see much change in Whyalla in the near future.

    There is also much research that predicts that aluminium and maybe steel can be produced using methods that are much cheaper and cleaner. This is already a reality.

  42. By the way, the tip in south west Sydney have raised their tariff today because of the carbon tax.

    I thought, even if their cost did go up, it was not for another 12 months.

    I also thought there is a lot the tops can do in that time, to reduce the cost. I was under the impression that most have already done this,

  43. ME. he will be very upset, when he wakes up that it is not really a tax but that stupid idea as a cost on the emitters.

  44. thanks Tom R

    CU
    the govt said councils could start charging so as to raise the funds for next years payment.
    but lets hope the residents tell their councils to start doing as other councils have done and cover and capture the emissions. there is money in that waste, well for councils with councillors willing to look for solutions.

  45. I wonder what the election platforms will be for the next council elections?
    Might be a good thing to follow over the next 18 months.

  46. NSW. September I think.

    By the way, the Liberals today are against councils being mentioned in the Constitution. Wonder why?

    By the way, I believe there is money for councils to make changes. The councils can save money by making the changes needed. All but thirty already have.

    Tax rally ABC news 4000. All day it was maybe a thousand, two thousand. Sydney photo’s looked two at the most. Melbourne, the great number of two hundreds.

  47. On cue, really bad polls for Labor and record number against the carbon price.

    No surprise really. The Coalition are planning a two week election type blitz against the carbon tax starting today. Problem for them is that according to the radio piece I heard this morning there are Liberals who are against what the opposition is doing in regards to the carbon price and against Abbott.

    If Abbott gets into power then he’s going to be between a rock and hard place over his getting rid of the carbon price. It will make so many people much worse off the backlash will be severe.

  48. Just a small fact but one which should be noted: That’s crowds were far smaller than rallies in support of..

    The protests were far smaller than last year’s rallies in support of a carbon price, but there was no shortage of placards.

    The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, was depicted as a Soviet army officer and a snake-haired Medusa, while there was also a sprinkling of other banners and signs referring to ”illegals” and ”boat people”.

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/climate-change-a-hoax-jones-tells-tax-protesters-20120701-21b3z.html#ixzz1zPRBI7iE

  49. The right just can’t do protests like the rabid left. They need lessons in vandalism, assault, stealing and animal cruelty.

    But then again…the minority are always the loudest and rudest. I would call 28% a minority, Labor have lost the propaganda war for the hearts and minds. The numbers won’t move much by the next election. The Labor experiment is an abject failure!

  50. Iain, Scaper, Victor

    Over 300 businesses including Westpac and AGL support the carbon tax. But you don’t hear that becuase the negative hysteria from the greedy mining industry has consumed the coalition with the outright and blatantly obvious support from News Limited.

    Australian businesses that need to compete overseas globally will in effect only pay $1.30 per tonne and not $23 per tonne after the reabtes and offsets given to these industries by the federal government. We don’t hear about this either. Why, because it is a positive and that does not suit the mining giants, News limited who sih to have a government of their choosing and not the electorates choosing and it does not suit the unbelievable negativity of the roght wing conservatives.

    The Carbon Tax can be avoided by many industries but this seems to be not worth mentioning as it does not suit the hysterical armageddon message of the coalition, shock jocks and news limited. It is a tax you do not have to pay if you lower your pollution.

    Choice conducted an independent assessment and concluded that the average Australian will actually pay less than the treasury estimate and the people will be over compensated. Don’t hear much about this either. Why, because it totally debunks the fear and decimation predicted by the coalition and shock jocks.

    The GST is far and away more regressive than any carbon tax and I suggest everyone look at the GST componenet of their power bills and then look at the carbon tax component on their next bill.

    The carbon tax will not go up simply because the power retailers want more profit, but the GST does, constantly and religiously it increases with price rises, irrespective of any wage rises.

    I guarantee you if the carbon tax was being introduced by the coalition it would be supported by News Limited and the silence in the mining industry would be deafening.

    Why not a story on the fact that while the GST remains at 10% the actual increase in GST costs to the average Australian has increased by an average of over 80% since its inception due to price rises in all areas and the burden it now places on the poor, the retired, and the disabled.

    While it is estimated the carbon tax will cost me $9.10 per week. the GST costs me far far more than that and unlike the huge polluting businesses I cannot avoid it in any circumstances.

  51. Shane, of course those companies support a tax because they will all profit in one way or the other, especially if CO2 trading comes in. But it won’t it will be repealed.

    You mention AGL? They are environmental vandals that most probably destroy the groundwater with their CSG extraction. They are sucking off the government for subsidies for wind and solar projects which is nothing but a warmist wank.

    You are so wrong that if the Libs introduced a tax that nary a protest would be evident. Turnbull was dispatched because the Lib base instituted an email campaign against him to the other Libs saying that they would not vote Lib if the ETS was agreed to.

    Don’t think much of the Direct Action policy but at least it addresses some environmental issues and does not need legislation and can/will be wound back.

    The GST is a failure in my eyes. Can you name one state where the books are looking good apart from maybe WA and that is debatable? Regardless of what side was at the helm state finances have been a mess since not long after the GST came in.

    We don’t need an election…we need a revolution…hang em high!

  52. Australian banks, energy companies and manufacturers are backing a price on carbon, saying it will help drive the shift to a low-carbon economy.

    The $23 per tonne price on carbon emissions started on Sunday, impacting directly on 294 electricity generators and other companies.

    The federal government is aiming to cut carbon emissions by five per cent by 2020, with the carbon tax shifting to an emissions trading scheme in 2015.

    The Businesses for Clean Energy consortium members say a carbon price will underpin the move to a clean economy.

    Consortium spokesman Nathan Fabian told AAP there was strong support in the business community for carbon pricing, but the coalition’s commitment to abolish it was creating uncertainty.

    ‘Businesses have accepted there will have to be some sort of price constraint on carbon,’ Mr Fabian said.

    ‘It’s true there is uncertainty and that does make the job more difficult and makes the next couple of years a challenging time to do business.

    ‘We hope they will reconsider this issue. We think it’s important to the competitiveness and business opportunities available for the Australian economy and Australian companies.’

    Mr Fabian said there was some confusion about who would pay the carbon tax and what the price effects would be, but that would wane.

    ‘Over the next few months people will be less confused about that,’ he said.

    ‘Businesses that are participating in this group are taking steps to communicate with their customers about why a low-carbon economy and policies that support that is good for Australia and good for them.’

    Mr Fabian, the chief executive of the Investors Group on Climate Change which represents investment houses and superannuation funds with around $700 billion of assets, said there was a clear global trend towards carbon pricing.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/07/02/Almost_300_businesses_back_carbon_price_767104.html

  53. Bacchus, that graph certainly puts a perspective on things. Income tax way, way up the top..and gambling tax way, way down the bottom.

  54. I have just received a letter from Kleenheat Gas, which provides the estate with LPG gas.

    They pu their prices up a couple of weeks a go. The first time, they say in two or three years. They have now announced another rise, due to carbon tax. Fair enough, as they have separated the two increases.

    What did impress me, was the following paragraph.

    Kleenheat Gas where possible will be looking to reduce its greenhouse emissions and potential impact on our customers. Therefore, Kleenheat Gas will be reviewing its carbon charge on a six monthly basis, and will vary this rates to reflect any changes.

    PS. We are not too happy, as we have no choice to use this company. The developers entered into a deal to save money. They own the infrastructure and we cannot change suppliers. There is not even a expiration date on thierr owner

    I do believe they way they have put it is reasonable. I believe it also leaves the way open to rise the cost. I hope that does not happen.

  55. Mr. Hunt just said those three hundreds business that have put up an ad in favour of what Labor is doing, is not going to make money under him.

    That great, the Liberals are going to keep business in the dark ages, and not move into modern times.

  56. Oh dear, now I’ve read it all!

    Because Greg says that the companies will not be profitting because they will not be able to trade air he is accused of keeping business in the dark ages? UNBELIEVABLE!!!

  57. Scaper, it is you that is unbelievable. The business that are being talked about are those of the future. The quicker we move to a renewable power production, the quicker we will be able to take our place in the new global economy we now find ourselves on.

    Yes, this is the modern age, Our steel and aluminium industries will have to modernise and move to were power relies on renewals. That is what it is all about. We have no choice, it has happened.

    The strategy To work out whether I’ll be compensated for the carbon tax.
    It’s so confusing! How does the compensation work? It’s being delivered in two forms – through tax cuts and welfare payments. To get a tax cut, you need to earn less than $80,000 a year, while welfare recipients will automatically get an increase to their payments. The tax cuts start from July 1 next year while most welfare recipients will receive a lump sum advance payment in May/June next year and higher regular payments from July 1.
    How much will I get? Let’s look at the tax cuts first. The government isn’t so much cutting the tax rates as tweaking the lower end of the tax scales to deliver the biggest tax cuts to lower earners and chicken feed to anyone earning more than $80,000. The current tax-free threshold of $6000 (the amount you can earn before paying tax) will be increased to $18,200 from July 1 next year and $19,401 from July 1, 2015. But here’s the rub. The two bottom tax rates are being increased. The current 15 per cent rate will be lifted to 19 per cent from 2013 and the 30 per cent rate will rise to 32.5 per cent from 2013 and 33 per cent from July 1, 2015.
    Advertisement: Story continues below
    The government is also cutting the low-income tax offset from $1500 to $445 and reducing the withdrawal rate (the rate at which you lose the offset once your income exceeds $30,000) from 4 per cent to 1.5 per cent. From July 1 next year, the income at which the offset starts to phase out will also be lifted from $30,000 to $37,000.
    Agh! What does that mean in bottom line terms? It means that if you’re eligible for the offset, you can earn up to $20,542 before paying tax from 2013 and $20,979 from 2015. At the moment this figure is $16,000. Your income will then be taxed at 19 per cent, though you’ll still get some low-income tax offset until your income hits $30,000. You’re looking at a $600 tax cut if you earn $20,000, $586 if you earn $25,000 ($503 in 2013 plus a

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/money/tax/carbon-tax-explained-20110719-1hm22.html#ixzz1zQuW4i4K

  58. What happened yesterday. It is unbelievable that people do not know the tax free threshold is tripling. It is more worrying when a ABC leading journalist did not know this was being funded by the price on carbon emission.

    Also from July 1…
    PAY RISE $17.10 per week for low-paid workers
    TAX FREE THRESHOLD No tax until $18,200
    TAX CUTS For everyone up to $80,000
    PENSION INCREASE 1.7% from May 2013
    FAMILY TAX BENEFIT BOOST $300 per child
    DOUBLE NSW FIRST HOME BUYERS GRANT $15,000 for purchase of new home
    CREDIT CARD LENDERS Forced to clear high interest debts first
    TICK AND FLICK BANK SWITCHING Sign one form once
    TOUGHER MEDICARE LEVY SURCHARGE 1.25% to 1.5% for high earners without private insurance
    LOWER PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE REBATE 10% to 20% instead of 30% for high earners
    INSTANT ASSET WRITE-OFF Up to $6500 per small business
    MINERALS RESOURCE RENT TAX To raise to $3 billion in its first year
    Swamped in the talk about the carbon tax are a raft of other changes beginning this week overwhelmingly positive for middle to low earners.out

    http://www.blogotariat.com/node/438214

  59. Some of the reality, the PM and Mr. Combet are talking about.

    Only another election will force movement on asylum seekers, was the almost instantaneous cry.

    But that problem is a matter of control of the Senate, not of minority government in the Lower House. And as one Labor MP pointed out on Twitter on Saturday, the failure of an independent MP’s bill to get through the Upper House would be a strange reason to hold a Lower House election.

    Yesterday protesters called for an early election so that, should the Coalition win, Tony Abbott could dismantle carbon pricing earlier than if he were forced to wait until the scheduled election late next year.

    and

    It’s all to do with the bits of the Constitution covering when elections can be held and who can be up for election.

    If an election is held before August 4 next year it would be for the Lower House only. It’s to do with the time which must be allocated for new senators to take their places. Whatever happens in the House of Representatives ballot, the Coalition still would not have the numbers in the Upper House.

    And the two Houses of Parliament would need to be synchronised.

    That means some time after August 4 the winner of the election, who most expect would be Mr Abbott, would have to call a half Senate election.

    That half Senate election would take on all the significance of a referendum on the Abbott government so far. It might see the voters joyously endorsing every Liberal candidate in sight. Or voters, concerned about economic management and other matters other than carbon pricing, might take out some insurance and ensure the Upper House is not a pushover for the new Prime Minister.

    Meanwhile, Mr Abbott might still have trouble getting the Greens on side to approve his demolition of carbon pricing. If so, he has said, he would be prepared to call a double dissolution election.

    Another victory might allow him to pass the laws he wants at a joint sitting, but it would also require another half Senate election to get both houses into line again. A DD election is of all MPs and senators while a normal election usually is of all MPs and only half the numbers of the Upper chamber.

    So it would be less messy for Mr Abbott to go to a regular general election, but to do that he would have to wait until after August 4.

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/no-easy-path-to-abbotts-carbon-tax-referendum/

    All that Mr. Abbott is offering is uncertainty and confusion. One will have more elections, than they ever thought possible.

  60. This is a little better.

    One of the independents who helped to create the scheme, Rob Oakeshott, says the toxic nature of the politic debate is a significant threat to the scheme’s future.

    “Frankly it’s going to come down to good Liberals either changing the policy position that the Liberal Party now holds, or changing the leader if they are not willing to change.”

    “The key to the success of this is getting confidence in the marketplace … it all fails unless there are big bets made by big players, and they will only do that when there is confidence in the market and that will only happen when the politics settles down.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-01/20120701-carbon-tax-pkg/4103166
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-02/politicians-begin-cross-country-carbon-tax-campaign/4103704

    Is el gordo among the missing.

  61. Anyone have any idea of how many times the phrase, “she is facing an uphill battle” has been used today, generally followed “the poles say”.. Also “not good news for the government”.

    Very little about what has happened. What the introduced policies are.

  62. I suppose I’ll get on topic…does anybody remember the event when Abbott said “Whyalla will be wiped off the map by Julia Gillard’s carbon tax.”

    Was he the originator of “wiped off the map”? Abbott indeed said it April 27, 2011.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/tony-abbott-presses-carbon-tax-message-in-steel-city/story-e6frg6xf-1226045602963

    But Abbott was just parroting what a union official said eight days prior.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/carbon-tax-will-destroy-major-centres-such-as-port-pirie-and-whyalla/story-e6frea6u-1226041230581

    Just the media running with it which is OK…that’s how the game is played.

  63. It must be remembered that the Unions couched this around a scenario of no assistance from the Government, of which nothing had been said at the time, tabot didn’t

    tabot also voted against this assistance. And, even after the assistance was legislated, still carried on the cry. The unions were quite happy by then

  64. Tom R, it always different when one puts one off sentences into context.

    Like the one that was uttered during a debate between a carbon tax and a price on carbon emissions. “There will not be a carbon tax under a government I lead” followed by I will be addressing climate change with a cost on carbon emission, or words to that effect.

    The meaning completely the opposite as portrayed in Abbott’s ads.

  65. It’s the end of the world as we know it
    Day 2 under the cruel yoke of the ‘carbon tax’.

    It’s true. It’s all true. How blind we were not to see it! This toxic tax is destroying us all.

    I’m reporting to you from my bunker in Townsville, where the unseasonably warm weather is just one sign of how devastating this tax has been. Now, what I have to say might shock readers,, but I’m committed to bring you the truth – no matter how ugly………………

    http://consciencevote.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it/

  66. Companies including AGL, Westpac, Alstom, GE, Fujitsu, IKEA, Unilever, Grocon, Pacific Hydro and Infigen Energy have signed the statement that will feature in print and online media from today.
    While peak business organisations like the Business Council of Australia think the starting price of the new tax is too high, the 299 companies calling themselves ”Businesses for a Clean Economy” are endorsing the carbon price and pleading for stable, long-term policies to give clear signals to investors.

    ”As major Australian and international corporations, small and medium enterprises, operating across the Australian economy, we endorse the need for a carbon price as the mechanism to support the transition to a clean economy,” the group says.
    ”There are lots of companies that are affected by the carbon price who, because of the political debate, are keeping a low profile. However, they are quietly getting on with the job because they accept the reality of climate change, and accept the inevitability of carbon pricing,” said Nathan Fabian, chief executive of the Investors Group on Climate Change and spokesman for Businesses for a Clean Economy.
    ”Some of our members would prefer to see the carbon price start lower and some would prefer to see it start higher but we all want stable investment signals and none of us want to see the carbon price repealed,” Mr Fabian told the Herald.
    Emma Herd, Westpac’s executive director for emissions and environment, said her company had supported a carbon price for a decade, under two chief executives and three prime ministers. ”When we talk to clients now they just want certainty, they want to know the rules and they want to get on with the job.”
    Many of the companies in the group stand to benefit from the clean energy investments likely to flow from carbon pricing. Among the organisations involved in the statement are the Clean Energy Council, the Climate Institute and the Sustainable Business Association.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/lets-give-it-a-chance-says-business-grouping-20120701-21b2v.html#ixzz1zRO6Biwd

  67. el gordo, where art thou.

    SEA ice in the Arctic was melting at a record pace last month, according to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre.
    Measurements taken on June 18 showed the area containing sea ice had shrunk to 10.62 million square kilometres, about 31,000 square kilometres lower than the previous record for that day, set in in 2010

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/heat-rises-over-record-sea-ice-melt-in-arctic-20120701-21b41.html#ixzz1zROsAY9A

  68. I wonder if this episode will give a boost to Whyalla’s tourism industry. I doubt it, myself. Whyalla deserves obliteration. It has been dying ever since it lost its ship building contracts to Japan. Now remind me, wasn’t that under a Liberal Government?

    Cu, el gordo said last week that she wouldn’t be coming to the Cafe after 1 July. Perhaps she thought the world was really going to end.

    Or maybe it’s her argument that died. 😉

  69. Abbot went on a lot further than the unions though scaper.

    He said whole communities across the States would be devastated and a little while back said the price rises due to the carbon tax would be “immeasurable”.

    They are going to be so high they cannot be measured. Now you have to be joking.

    And I don’t know why you are trying to make excuses for a man who lies and exaggerates daily, then runs away like a little caught out schoolboy when confronted on his lies.

  70. I was away for a few hours, Must have miss that,

    Suspect it is more likely that it has got too hard for her, or more likely the alto ego.

  71. I love the denier explanation Cu. Local weather conditions are causing record sea ice melts.

    They just love interchanging weather and climate to suit their current confabulation.

  72. ME. Abbott as usual took a tiny bit of fact and turned in into a major production, twisting it into a falsehood.

  73. Scaper, just be careful. There is such a thing as defamation. As resident legal eagle, I’ll be watching things carefully.

  74. I wonder if it was Scaper out there yesterday with the comment and sign suggesting that someone has slept with many union leaders.

    It is called hitting below the belt and suggests that if they have to sink this low, they have nothing worthwhile to say.

    I would expect better behaviour among 14 year olds , in the playground of a boy’s school.

  75. <i.the man is a raving dickhead!

    I gotta admit, I saw that earlier this afternoon, and cringed. But then, the media on tele tonight did a typical splice, and I reckon it got the message he wanted out pretty well. That’s where it was aimed

    Perhaps they have worked out how to play the new, dumbed down media game, and it gelps to be a dickhead.

    tabot plays it well.

    The media, as I highlighted with fran kelly on the new media watch thread, are dumbasses. Play down to their level, and they will treat you with respect.

    Pathetic, I know, but welcome to the media2.0

  76. I told my wife if I ever come home with a Hybrid just put a slug behind my ear. I would have obviously lost it.

  77. Geaoff, considering the clapped out bomb I’m driving now, I reckon the hybrid would be a step up.

    Although, for $60k ……..

  78. Geoff, I believe the Hybrid will not be around long. Funny at the beginning of the last century, both petrol and electricity was the norm.

    The power of the gasoline companies won out the eclectic disappeared.

    it much be true that what goes around comes around. Here we are again, gasoline versus electricity.

    I wonder if we would have had those wars in the middle east, if electricity won the first time.

  79. It is just supply and demand. We use the most cost effective fuel. Fossil is cheap and plentiful. (Oil, Coal, Gas). CU. You lived through the oil crisis in the 1970s when we were supposed to be running out of oil. The price of V8s plummetted. At the end of the day the cheapest part of running a car is fuel. Depreciation is the biggest cost except if you drive Tom Rs clapped out bomb. Tom R is the smart one. Anyone who goes into a showroom and buys a new car is going to tear up 50% of the purchase price in the first 3-5 years. My car is 10 years old. It is a thumping V8. I love it and it is cheap. No depreciation.

  80. Geoff, this is not a Hybrid.

    The Volt is propelled by a 16.5-kWh lithium-ion battery and electric motor that has an estimated 111kW and 370Nm and can provide a pure electric range of up to 87km.

    The vehicle also has a 1.4-litre petrol engine that is used purely to keep a charge in the battery – not drive the wheels directly – to give a range of more than 600km depending on driving conditions….

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/holden-launches-affordable-volt-electric-vehicle/story-fncynkc6-1226414953564

    I have always wondered, why there could not be a generator that keeps the batteries etc, charged, This car seems to say it can. I do not understand why it has to be a petrol motor.

    Why not just a generator.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/holden-launches-affordable-volt-electric-vehicle/story-fncynkc6-1226414953564

  81. CU. read the fine print.
    The Volt – which has an electric-only range of nearly 90km but a 600km using the on-board engine –

  82. The on board engine does not drive the car. I did read the fine print. That was what led me to make the statement I did.

    I was under the impression that a Hybrid was driven by either a electric engine or a petrol engine.

    I was also under the impression the electric motor could go a little further than 90 k.

  83. Tom R is the smart one.

    I just wanted to hear it again, even if it only came about cos I couldn’t afford anyhthing better 😉

    Mind you, if I had a lazy $60k, the Volt looks like an interesting investment.And no, it doesn’t appear to be a hybrid in the strict sense, as CU points out, the petrol motor is not for transmission. But then, the petrol motor is used to recharge the electric motor, which powers the car, so,in that sense,it could be considered hybrid.

    I’d probably call it hybrid, since it has both types of motors, although, realistically (and who knows, they might in the future) the car sounds like it gets around town fine with just the electric motor

  84. Compare the pair

    HORROR SHOW: The most embarrassing thing ever?

    http://www.news.com.au/national/horror-show-the-most-embarrassing-thing-ever/story-fndo4eg9-1226414883351

    Mary Jo Fisher’s Hokey Pokey, Time Warp performance stuns parliament, goes viral

    http://www.news.com.au/national/mary-jo-fishers-hokey-pokey-time-warp-performance/story-e6frfkvr-1226015305756

    Of course, we expect this kind of even handedness coming from ltdnews. And, as naeuseating as it is to watch, he has done what Labor fail to do, grabbed the headline, and highlighted tabots bullshit.

    I wonder if we will see a bit more inane stupidity from Labor MP’s, just in the vain hope of getting theirmsm to sit up and take notice. Who knows, they do something stupid enough, fran kelly might even think to look into what this Carbon Price thingy is all about

  85. Tom, I just fell short of declaring him stark raving mad.

    There’s a fine line between that and genius, so they say 😉

  86. On the Emerson thing, the first time I heard it, Emerson sung accompanied by music delivered from an ipad. This evening when replayed on the ABC, the music accompaniment had been removed.

    So did Emerson do 2 takes or did the owners of the music have it removed?

  87. Sue, either which way..it was bad, very bad. Emo..don’t do it!! Do not even attempt that one again!!

    ToM, it’s a bit of an old story..the Mayor of Whyalla has said that the community will thrive and prosper.

    With the introduction of the carbon tax this weekend, the Mayor of Whyalla says a controversial prediction about the steel-making city has not come close.

    The city attracted national attention last year when Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said it would be “wiped off the map” by the tax.

    However, Mayor Jim Pollock says nothing could be further from the truth.

    “The words carbon tax and mining tax in Whyalla at the moment are virtually non-existent,” he said.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-29/whyalla-mayor-downplays-carbon-tax-impact/4100656

  88. I do try not to bother you nice people too much and obviously don’t follow the commentary, but despite this may I suggest-

    ”Whyalla was meant to be wiped off the map at midnight this morning. It wasn’t.
    Tony Abbott
    Wayne Hanson lied.
    The place is a shit hole. For once I hoped Abbott Wayne Hanson would be right. I’ll never trust him the State Secretary of the AWU again.

  89. ToM being disingenuous again, no surprise

    Abbott said it, repeating the union line which was made before the compensation was announced that had the union muted.

    But Abbott when on to vastly expand on Whyalla being wiped off the map, and him saying it was repeated on news bulletins across the country so you can’t deny it as many unwavering Abbott supporters are averring, to include hundreds of communities in every State being devastated.

    Yep, Abbott lied again. But only his unwavering supporters would stick up for him in his lies.

  90. TomM, we are well aware of that Mr. Abbott had repeated what someone else said, if you read what has been written here, you would know that.

    Sorry to steal your limelight.

    Why you would think that Abbott had the imagination to think that up himself, is amazing.

    There was more to what the unionist said. I am been informed, that the union leader is now happy.

    It was Abbott that thought it was great and made a big thing of it.

  91. In all seriousness Adrian, you’re about the last person who is entitled to make that comment about me.

  92. I suppose you’ll be up dating this with a correction.

    What correction were you in fact waiting for?

    And, speaking of fiddles 🙂

  93. Adrian is always making sniping comments without any evidence. Then he runs away.

    That’s his form.

  94. No, ToM. That’s not the case at all. Are you too thick to realise that most people can’t be bothered engaging with you because they don’t think you’ve earned the respect? If you haven’t worked that out yet then you’re more stupid than I thought.

    If you don’t like it here or the people who blog here then you have two options. Try earning some respect or piss off.

  95. always making sniping comments without any evidence. Then he runs away.

    In all seriousness, you’re about the last person who is entitled to make that comment ( nuanced or not)

    priceless 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  96. I’ve pointed out before that “respect” isn’t something I seek.

    I’m more interested in pointing out hypocrisy and smear.

  97. I’m more interested in pointing out hypocrisy and smear.

    Do people often stop and ask why you keep pointing in the mirror yomm?

  98. Looks like tabots been listening to ulman, which could be why he’s been caught out lying……….. again

    https://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/archived/media-watch/media-watch-ii/#comment-19918

    The Opposition Leader Tony Abbott gave a revealing interview to Radio National’s Fran Kelly this morning. In response to questions about whether he would rule out introducing an emissions trading scheme, the Opposition Leader had the following to say:

    Fran Kelly: You’ve given the commitment many times over to axe the tax. Are you also promising there’ll be no emissions trading scheme?

    Tony Abbott: The short answer is yes, because if you look at what’s happening right around the world since Copenhagen, is that other countries are walking away from carbon taxes, from emissions trading schemes and that’s why what we’re doing is such an international orphan Fran.

    Mr Abbott is wrong.

    http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/minister/greg-combet/2012/media-releases/july/mr-180-12.aspx

    details in the link 😉

    (it really isn’t surprising that fran allowed somehting like this to go through to the keeper, I mean, this is after all the ‘journalist’ who doesn’t even know the contents of the Carbon Price Package)

  99. ToM and, I’m more interested in pointing out hypocrisy and smear.

    There, I’ve fixed it for you.

  100. I guess since yomm couldn’t fess up over the ‘nuance’ debacle, then I assume that he’s’ not going to specify exactly what correction he was waiting for?

    Business as usual I guess 😉

  101. I challenged Adrian to link comments that demonstrated I supported Abbott. He didn’t because he can’t.

    He smears and runs away, I’m sure you’ll be pleased to know that if I smear, I don’t run away.

  102. ToM, perhaps you might consider that not everyone has all day, every day to sit glued to the computer as clearly you have.

  103. I can vouch for that, Tom. Never was one to run away.

    What Abbott said originally…”As the Australian Workers Union rightly pointed out a week or so ago, Whyalla will be wiped off the map by Julia Gillard’s carbon tax.”

    It’s somewhere in a link up the page. Labor fed the media and they ran with it from there. A point to Labor in the propaganda stakes.

  104. What Abbott said originally…

    What happened after that though, is that the union were happy with compensation from the Government, and didn’t continue with the claim. tabot did.

    This is truly amazing, when tabots fear campaign comes back to haunt him, the sycophants pretend it didn’t happen

    laughable

  105. I’ll ask yomm again, before he doesn’t run away

    What correction were you in fact waiting for?

  106. Sometimes. TomM, I wish you would run away, take your petty spites somewhere else.

    I have problems seeing what value you add to the site.

  107. Sometimes. TomM, I wish you would run away, take your petty spites somewhere else.

    Cu, you are definitely not alone with that wish. Nobody likes to see him here.

    I have problems seeing what value you add to the site.

    None. Adding value is not his intention.

    His comments are uninformative, evasive and incredibly unconvincing.

    His sole intention is to disrupt.

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