Yes, I do believe him………..but have doubts about her!

 

I believed him, thought what he said was true.
His story’s unchanged. He’s said nothing new.
But the lady protests so oft, methinks,
Increasingly the air around her stinks.

Her stories change and are embellished
In many interviews, each one relished
By her audience, the peoples’ jury!
So why is he the focus of her fury?

What did he do to deserve this hell,
The unhappy member for Dobell,
When her entitlements have swollen
To far outweigh the sum she claims he’s stolen?

Isn’t it time we really got to know her,
This ‘heroine’, this ‘whistleblower’?
Who are her friends, lovers, connections?
Why for her so much media protection?

Why do editors find it so very hard
To spot an extra ‘p’ on a phony credit card?
If investigative journos checked out his alibis
Couldn’t they prove which of them is telling lies?

 

NOTES:   The response of mainstream media to Craig Thomson’s statement to the House of Representatives on Monday has been one of derision and almost universal denial of his charge that most of them were responsible for his plight.  Not surprisingly the Opposition have used the explanation for which they have  been calling for so long as an opportunity to expand their already extended trial and condemnation of him for a so far nameless crime for which there has been no charge.

I regret that the title of my pome suggests that I think I have the right to judge Craig Thomson’s guilt or innocence and would much prefer to support the Prime Minister’s efforts to leave this matter to the  courts, if indeed a charge is ever brought against him.   Now, however,  the public debate is about his  personal credibility when weighed against the huge disbelief expressed by the Opposition in Parliament,  most media commentators and apparently public  opinion if on-line polls are anything to go by.

Not surprisingly, at my favorite blog sites, here at Cafe Whispers, The Political Sword and the Poll Bludger there is a substantial amount of support for the Member for Dobell, informed by and linked as they all are to the research done by Peter Wicks or Wixxy and published by Independent Australia.    I think that comments by people like Psyclaw are typical of those sites.  i.e. that in his opinion Craig Thomson was telling the truth.

Having ‘nailed our colors to the mast’  as he put it, in terms of our belief in Thomson’s personal credibility, there are many other questions that need answering.  For myself the most important is about the media’s failure to follow up with normal investigative journalism a story which they believe to hold such wide interest .    Given that somehow access has been given to credit card vouchers with addresses of brothels and hotels Craig Thomson is supposed to have visited why have none been contacted or efforts made to track down at least one woman who might be willing to sell her story?   As well, there is plenty of material in the printed media and on recorded broadcast interviews which show how determined Kathy Jackson is to blame Craig Thomson alone for corrupt practices at the Health Services Union which seem to predate his tenure there from 2002 to 2007, and have certainly continued since he left.

Today Fair Work Australia have set in train proceedingsagainst three HSU officers, not including Craig Thomson, but naming Jeff Jackson, ex-husband of Kathy Jackson, who figured in a scandal around ‘adult services’ almost identical to that allegedly involving the member for Dobell.  

191 comments on “Yes, I do believe him………..but have doubts about her!

  1. Patricia, I do not know whether I believe Mr. Thomson is guilty or not. I am not even too sure what he is being accused of. I do know the figures do not add up.

    That is not the question that worries me. I will leave it up to the courts, that is if he is ever charged. I do want to believe but without tested findings there is no way I can be sure.

    As for the lady, she has done nothing to convince me she is the innocent victim.

    A lady that has left many bodies in her path. A lady that does not have any support from either the Labor or union movement.

    A lady that us still in the union, that is said by all is dysfunctional today. A lady who is the only one that is doing the right thing.

  2. What a way to get the top position of President in a Union, Slander and Libel others and become partners with a person who is a staff member of a Government body that is investigating your ex-rival in your Union?

  3. In my very humble opinion Craig Thomson is being bullied to within an inch of his life. I wonder how many of those who have already found him guilty would apologise and hang their heads in shame if he were to be found innocent?

  4. The press pack have made their judgement and are not going to let up. And if it is found the “Thompson” credit card is a forgery the press will just blame Thomson for not settling the matter when first raised.

    But as I keep repeating the irony of a Murdoch paper challenging anyone about dodgy , tampered or spoofed phones is absolutely gob smacking.

  5. Hi patricia, excellent post as usual. 🙂

    I’m having trouble with wireless dropping out due to stormy weather [so I’m typing as fast as I can… 😯 ]

    I posted this on Medai Watch last night so I’ll link to 7.30 and let the rest of our lovely Whisperers take it from here

    Health concerns accompany censure moves for Thomson

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3508683.htm

  6. I neither support Thomson nor condemn him. I don’t have hold of the factual data, but only what the media choose to (often selectively) report. Is he guilty of a criminal offence? It would seem not. Is he guilty of a civil matter, well possibly. But the civil matter is yet to be brought before the courts.

    If Abbott wasn’t hell bent on trying to bring the government down by fair means or foul, mostly foul the entire issue would have hardly raised an eyebrow much less the endless and somewhat boring diatribe against him.

    As someone mentioned today: The Thomson sole my baby..or was that the Dingo stole my Thomson.

  7. So Pat, if Craig is innocent, why is he refusing to cooperate with the police?

    Why didn’t he turn to the police to clear his name when these credit card so-called “fraudulent” claims were first raised?

    And today, the so-called “supporting witnesses” that Thomson claims to have as his defence are outraged that they’ve been named in his so-called “comprehensive statement” in Parliament.

    It’s incredulous that you continue to proclaim his innocence when the evidence overwhelmingly suggests his guilt.

    But then you’ve always been a kind of Labor = Good, Coalition = Bad, kind of person.

  8. Reb, because he is following legal advice. One has the right to remain silent.

    The police and courts have to prove one guilty under our legal system.

    What Thomson is doing, is the norm.

    You see what happens this week when one does not follow legal advice. Everything you say is used against you.

  9. Reb, not many are saying he is innocence but surely one has the right to believe and say this, as those who believe he is guilty are doing.

    None of us know.

  10. You are a good poet Patricia.

    Frankly, I don’t believe either of them. Jackson nor Thomson.

    I do worry about the man’s health. And Jackson’s ego. It might eat her alive.

    I reckon both have brought the reputation of the union down…both have probably exploited their positions.

    I do feel there is some Liberal mischief making going on.

    And some mediocre to poor reporting.

    The ALP and Fair Work Australia don’t come out of this lookin’ like the bastions of integrity either.

    PM Gillard might’ve demonstrated appropriate loyalty…for both principled and survival reasons…but unfortunately the Thomson/Jackson saga has had a detrimental effect on perceptions of the government, the unions, the media, the investigating body, certain Liberals…the stench is considered to be emanating from all involved.

    This mountain out of a molehill could’ve been a real positive for the Coalition…

    but Abbott and Pyne and Bishop and Brandis have managed to score own goals again…coming across like a bunch of hypocritical desperadoes putting the future of many not so pure as the driven snow Coalition members at risk…

    their over-the-top fingerpointing tactics opening up a SINKHOLE.

    The incompetence and zealotry and impetuous temperament displayed by the Abbott-led Coalition does not, in my and many other voters’ estimation, make them a viable alternative government.

    Furthermore, PM Julia Gillard will have to demonstrate a damn sight more useful foresight when making decisions if she is going to make life for her party and supporters alot easier.

    N’…who is so sick of this saga he’s put it in the Michael Jackson’s death, Simpson murder case, Dingo took my baby etc. basket…labelled BORING AS FUCK, GET A LIFE.

  11. Reb, I would suggest that the snippets leaked to the media are just that..snippets. Therefore if you are gaining all your information from no other source than the media, I would suggest a good dose of scepticism especially when it means that Abbott is hot on the trail of a method to bring down the government.

    All information was given to the NSW police who could find no reason for criminal charges to be laid, then it was pass the parcel to the Victorian police. Deathly silence. Then at the insistence (surprise, surprise) of..wasn’t it Brandis, it was referred to the Feds. Conclusion: no criminal charges but that it’s a civil matter.

    Abbott is stuffed. The only way that Thomson can be precluded is either bankruptcy or a 12 month jail sentence. Don’t like it? Then change the Constitution.

    I have absolutely no idea whether Thomson is guilty or innocent as he has yet to face a court of law. He may indeed be as guilty as sin, but that’s democracy for you..innocent until proven guilty. Don’t like it? Then move to France where it’s guilty until proven innocent, France not being a Common Law country.

  12. Actually I quite like the French’s reasoning…which is that they are optimistic that the person will be found innocent. But that’s the French for you 😉

  13. Reb, one bit of free advice. If picked up by the police, talk only to your solicitor, not the police.

  14. “It’s incredulous that you continue to proclaim his innocence when the evidence overwhelmingly suggests his guilt.”

    What overwhelming evidence reb?

    One police force has already investigated the evidence and another has not said an iota about its veracity or not.

    If you have overwhelming evidence then I would be giving it to the Victoria police.

  15. Oh come on Min, you insult me with your suggestion that I get all my information “from the media”.

    Where do you get your information from? Labor Party press releases…?

    The facts speak for themselves…

    The FWA report found that Thomson has a case to answer yet the “prevailing wisdom” here is that it’s all just a stitch up job orchestrated by the media and/or Tony Abbott…

    Honestly “you lot” really need to get your blinkers off…

    If Thomson were a Liberal MP you’d all be calling for his head on a stick, but because he’s a fragile strand keeping the Gillard Govt on life support you all think that he’s the victim of some bizarre conspiracy..

    It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic…

    Actually on second thoughts, it is pathetic AND hilarious…!!

  16. Catching Up, one free piece of advice, if you are innocent you have nothing to fear from talking to the police.

    On the other hand, if you think you might be guilty of any allegations, you might want to keep your mouth shut.

    Which option did Thomson opt for?

  17. Mobius, have you been out of town for the last month?

    The FWA report FINDINGS confirmed hat Thomson had a case to answer.

    They weren’t “allegations” they were results.

    Or are you suggesting that the findings of FWA’s report (which enjoys the confidence of the Gillard government) were somehow unreliable or innaccurate…?

  18. Reb, absolute garbage. I have been consistent with all cases, stating innocent until proven guilty irrespective of the political party. If you are going to make accusations, then at least bother to quote me.

    So you don’t get your information from the media..so where do you get it from? Courier pigeons, spaceships, insider information..whoa, that’s gotta be all about friends in high places.

    I have absolutely no information about Thomson whatsoever, haven’t read the squillion page report, have read the Murdoch minions tho’.

    Who is hilarious and pathetic..wait a minute, I think that can see someone.

    When all else fails, let’s go for personal insults..you’re the expert.

  19. Reb, there is no reason why one does not respect those findings. That are all they are, findings. They are not proven fact until tested by a court.

    I used to investigate child abuse. At time I worked with the police. I wrote up reports, that amounted to findings.

    The parents to accept or rejected them.

    They did not carry any weigh, until they were tested in court. Same goes for the FWA.

    At the most, they are reporting what may have happened. They have not prove who the culprit is.

    I am not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the reality.

    The taxation comes out with findings. Many times these findings are overturned in court.

  20. Cu, that is far too logical and fair minded. But then this is just “the women’s bitterness club”..funny that, considering that the majority of our authors are men.

  21. Honestly “you lot” really need to get your blinkers off…

    I noticed a certain mischief making blogger has a habit of lumping us all in together…

    why doesn’t this surprise me?

    Might have something to do with his own blinkers.

    N’

  22. No you didn’t come here to be insulted reb, just to insult others.

    You have added to the debate how?

    Perhaps it’s this one aimed at Cu: you might want to keep your mouth shut.

    Or perhaps it’s this one: No wonder Miglo hardly shows up anymore…

    Or: “the women’s bitterness club”

    Or maybe: Pity really. Says a lot about you Min…

    But then Mr Reb is just a shining little angel on top of the Xmas tree.

  23. Reb, what a coward you are. You come here to make trouble, when Miglo is busy elsewhere.

    I thought Miglo was your friend. If so, I would hate to have you as a enemy.

    Why do you appear to get pleasure out of attacking woman.

  24. What was the evidence in that three year FWA finding? I’ve seen allegations and 3 of 7 have proved they can’t be fact.

    A major police force, one of the largest around, found not enough evidence yet an investigation started by a Abbott hack from a hacked email in conjunction with his bitter and mentally unstable partner finds overwhelming evidence.

    Now if you can just tell us where this overwhelming, well less overwhelming as some things have already been found to be false, was tested and proven in a court of law it would appreciated.

    In the meantime arseholes like Heffernan have been found innocent by a thorough investigation that supposedly was done for Thomson, no. A police investigation, no. An enquiry by independents, no. He’s found innocent by his colleagues, and not all of them, just the select few who are the same one making heaps of noise about Thomson and Slipper.

    Wait for the court case reb, then you can rebel yell “I told you so” as much as you like.

  25. Expert derailing of a thread by a mischief maker.

    It seems that some on this blog will never learn.

    N’

  26. Yes…well…Thomson is mentally ill and should take sick leave and seek professional help from a psychotherapist.

  27. The Clean Energy Package Finance Legislation was introduce today. Anna Rose felt this was ore important. Funny the work is still going on.

  28. Listening to all on the right, I am coming to understanding that all can rationalize everything to meet their view.

    Statement on Drum. Not a nice way to come to power. Why are not more saying it.

  29. You know, I agree with a couple on the Drum. They are sick of hearing about Craig.

    There will be nothing new until or if he is charged and the courts do their business.

  30. No doubt she will be back there salivating over “the boss”.

    I don’t read it, but it’s just par for the course…or is that coarse.

    Now where were we when we were interrupted by trivia time. Oh yes, that’s right we were talking about innocent until proven guilty.

  31. I’m going to take a break from this blog until a certain manic blogger is put back in his box.

    N’

  32. Now Reb, for once you are correct.

    I thought you left us. Did our charm, lure you back.

    What I do know, many that visit to cause trouble, do not have a clue and are incapable of any other action.

    Small things, amuse small minds.

    Maybe I meant the clueless…

    We will never know.

  33. Reb must be having a slow night on his site, to wander over here. Sorry to hear that Reb.

  34. nasking, stay around. I hate to see talent pushed away. He will soon tire of the game.

  35. Apparently you must be correct, as many tell me so.

    I take it as a compliment, that the likes of you waste your time on me.

    My biggest crime appears to be, that I do not agree with you.

    I hope I never do.

    I find it puzzling that some have to abuse those who do not agree.

    I have this funny notion that there can be many views on the same topic.

    I believe this, because we all base our views on different values and different life experiences. We all have different aims and needs..

    That is what makes debate and the world interesting.

    It is those who believe they only have the answers that are delusional.

    If it is delusional to believe a few boat people do not put our country in danger, so be it.

    There are many more important things to worry about.

  36. Min, a little peace now. nasking, you can come back.

    Funny, when we get attacked, we always get more than one.

    Poor little me upsetting so many people. I will have to learn to know and keep my place. I have to get a little humility.

    You OK.

  37. Tweed/Geoff/Poh and your other several aliases..

    Catching up
    MAY 23, 2012 @ 4:51 PM
    CU you remain terminally delusional.

    Your numerous names have more credibility than your opinions.

  38. Cu, and reb’s comment.

    Cu, having now met you, you are one spicy lady. For reb, just in case he wants to do the lol thing..Cu is less than 5 foot, with the most amazing eyes. Go for it, call us names over and over such as “the women’s bittnerness club” and many others. Your loss on missing out on such amazing friends.

  39. Min, a little exaggeration but I like it

    The Craig line was becoming tedious, as it has been done to death.

    Thankfully it has come to a brick wall. We might see Mr. Abbott pull the stunt of no confidence in the chair tomorrow and that will be it for a while. I believe they nearly went down that path today, but pulled back.

    So it was nice to have a distraction to brighten us up.

    When I was young, small people would often say, that precious things came in small packages. Often the reply was, so does poison.

  40. Cu, I myself am 5 foot 1 3/4 inches. All the male cousins on the Jenkins side stood over 6 foot and all were as deaf as door posts.

    Therefore tomorrow what we have to look forward to is yet another epic fail from Tony Abbott. *Gasp* don’t tell me that this blog is left wing bias..

    When Tony Abbott has a win a parliament let me know and I’ll run naked down Minjungbal Drive all the way to Kirra Beach.

  41. Hi everyone! Sorry I’ve been missing in action. Family commitments. I’ve wiped out a few offensive remarks and a bit of bad language but I think the the conversations is going very well otherwise! I agree that it’s not that we are urging Craig Thomson’s innocence here, but rather his right to the presumption of innocence until he is proven guilty. And Parliament is not the place to charge, try and condemn him.

    That’s interesting about the French way being the reverse, Min. I think I prefer ours.

    Interesting that on our ABC so called national news here tonight at 7.00 there was no mention of Craig Thomson, nor the Fair Work moves. Nor on 7.30 either. I wonder what the significance of that is?

  42. Patricia, I think it has hit a brick wall. people are saying they are sick of the name Craig.

    Now that it is in the PC, it will be struck there for months. In other words. Labor has put it to bed.

    The next event should be charges laid by either the police or FWA. They are slow coming.

    You can believe someone is guilty, but getting a case together can be impossible. In fact you can know them to be, but do not have the evidence for a court case.

    After three years investigation, one would have expected they were ready to go, and it was only a matter of writing up the court documents.

    For a black and white, open and shut case, the progress is slow.

  43. CU
    are you really about 5′,
    my perception of you is about 5’8, it’s because i love the time and thought you put into what you write. so in my mind i look up to you. ( i’m 5’4) funny isn’t it

  44. Thnx to Cu,
    keep up the fine work…and don’t ever let sh*t stirrers get you down (my wife’s words).

    N’

  45. “The facts speak for themselves …”

    Then why do so many people ‘hear’ differently?

    Maybe they they hear differently because the people in question have different ‘earpieces; or more likely they bring different values/worldviews or the like to these ‘facts’.

    The notion that ‘facts’ speak for themselves is absolutely hilarious.

    And my statement ‘speaks for itself”. LOL.

  46. Sue, used to be just under 5 2 but i am afraid I have shrunk. All my off spring except a couple, I look up to.

    nasking, I actually do not mind the stirrers. I see it as sport. I cannot resist stirring the pot. I know it is a waste of time, but maybe it makes them feel more useful.

    It is a lot easier that forming a rational argument.

  47. I don’t think it was necessarily wise to delete comments Patricia – they tell a story of their own of the perpetrators. Such perpetrators should be exposed, Just my opinion…

  48. The charges are beginning. Do not see the name Thomson, but Mr. Jackson is there.

    FAIR Work Australia (FWA) has launched Federal Court action in Victoria against three former officers of the Health Services Union’s Victoria No.1 branch.
    FWA general manager Bernadette O’Neill said in a statement today she was seeking civil penalties against Pauline Fegan, Jeff Jackson and Shaun Hudson in relation to 26 alleged contraventions of workplace laws and union rules.

    FWA is also seeking to have Mr Jackson and Mr Hudson repay allegedly unauthorised spending of HSU funds.

    The matter is listed for directions on June 25.

    Ms O’Neill said eight of the contraventions related to the HSU itself, two to Ms Fegan, 10 to Mr Jackson and six to Mr Hudson.

    “I am also seeking orders requiring Mr Jackson and Mr Hudson to pay compensation for what is alleged to be unauthorised expenditure of HSU funds,” she said in the statement.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/court-action-against-three-more-hsu-officers/story-e6frfku0-1226364826301#ixzz1vhOtQXRs

  49. Yes Sue, no Thomson. One thing for sure, Mr. Thomson was not lying or exaggerating when he said the union was full of corruption.

  50. Maybe Abbott could bring ASIO in. This is not justice. It is a fishing expedition. One is not only entitled to the presumption of innocence and entitled to the right to remain silent.

    The police cannot act unless they have reasonable belief that a crime has been committed. That means they needs substantial allegations to act on.

    What Abbott is about, is fishing for evidence that a crime might have been committed.

    It is time it ceased, before the justice system is trashed beyond saving.

    I do not believe that the courts would accept evidence from these actions. it would be seen as unfair and tainted.

    EXAMINING the past of independent MP Craig Thomson has become a small industry, which Opposition Leader Tony Abbott wants to expand into a much bigger one.
    Mr Abbott’s demands for further investigations of Mr Thomson’s history as a union secretary is dominating Opposition tactics in Parliament and exposing it to the charge it is running a purely political pursuit of the former Labor up-and-comer.
    The Thomson story already is being investigated by the New South Wales police, the Victorian police and by the Privileges Committee of Parliament. The 1100-page Fair Work Australia report on his activities has led to more than150 civil breaches being taken to the Federal Court.
    In addition, Parliament’s public accounts committee is expected to look at auditing of the Health Services Union while Mr Thomson was national secretary.
    And the electoral reform committee will check whether law changes are needed following yet another investigation, an Australian Electoral Commission review of funding of his campaign in the seat of Dobell.
    Add to that the close attention Mr Thomson is receiving from news outlets.
    With all this going on, Opposition Leader Abbott today demanded Parliament spend more time on Mr Thomson.
    Or more specifically on Prime Minister Julia Gillard who was back from a NATO summit and in Parliament today for the first time since Mr Thomson’s statement on Monday.
    The Opposition lost a battle of parliamentary tactics in its bid to embarrass Ms Gillard by asking whether she had confidence in the FWA version of what Mr Thomson did, or his version.
    Mr Abbott had not spoken during a long Matter of Public Importance debate on Mr Thomson yesterday, but was angry he didn’t get a chance to speak at length today.
    “While Mr Thomson was given one hour to make a statement to the Parliament (on Monday), the Government has used gagging and stalling tactics to deny us a single minute to debate that statement,” he told reporters today.
    Mr Abbott said Parliament had become a “travesty, where debate is regularly shut down”.
    Government Leader in the House of Representatives Anthony Albanese accused Mr Abbott of pretending there had not been a debate on the issue.
    “No matter what occurs he won’t be satisfied,” Mr Albanese told reporters.
    “His aim is to create a climate of chaos upon chaos.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/the-busy-business-of-investigating-craig-thomson/story-e6frfkvr-1226364800745#ixzz1vhQeOpm9

  51. “Not to mention intense media scrutiny”

    Well that in itself is a waste of money. Scrutiny, if I want that I wouldn’t bother with the media, but look instead at what wixxy has written. As wixxy says, all in the public record.

  52. And now for the ridiculous, thank you ACA, or should we say thank you for the typical “media scrutiny”, the cheque book

    “EMBATTLED MP Craig Thomson has hit out at A Current Affair, accusing the program of “grubby” cheque book journalism after he was told it planned to air a $60,000 interview with a Sydney prostitute claiming he was a client.

    The escort is believed to have been provided with a photograph of the federal MP and asked whether she could identify him.”
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-news/labor-mp-craig-thomson-denies-a-current-affair-escorts-claims/story-fn7q4q9f-1226364985295

  53. How many years ago did this happen. Would a prostitute stay around this long. How many even look at the man.

    EMBATTLED MP Craig Thomson has hit out at A Current Affair, accusing the program of “grubby” cheque book journalism after he was told it planned to air a $60,000 interview with a Sydney prostitute claiming he was a client.

    The escort is believed to have been provided with a photograph of the federal MP and asked whether she could identify him.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-news/mp-craig-thomson-denies-a-current-affair-escorts-claims/story-fn7q4q9f-1226364985295

  54. you girls are all a lot taller than you think…. just say’n 😀
    reb/elgordo/iain/geoff or woteva/whomeva you are are the one’s who are a bit short 😆

  55. Sue and Cu, they can not be serious.
    Who would have thought that the Daily Smelly could actually get any worse.

  56. I have just watched this weeks Q and A. Jones made a comment that it was funny that a prostitute has not come forward. Hinted at there would be money available.

    Probably would not have noticed if that story had not come out. Even try to buy his wife out.

    Maybe he is guilty maybe they all are but if one wrote this as fiction, most would think it is beyond the realms of reality.

    There is just too much in it, at the same time, being very little.

  57. Senator Brandis. It is not prudent to comment on rumours. Lateline.

    Jones once again hinting at prostitute story.

    This man us a barrister. Who would hire him.

  58. (“Who would hire him.”

    I’d hire him for SAG, would-be First Law Officer of the Commonwealth of Australia. Serial attempts to orchestrate trial(-alike)s in parallel, whatever the fora, appear nothing like recent in(ter)vention, loading the die, or poly-jeopardy. And, as we know, Albert Venn is fond of such approaches; perhaps, as if to award the esteemed Brandis another gilt Razzie, for his latest explications of the discretionary privileges Privileges Committees are apt to discretely afford themselves.)

  59. FWA report suspect, AEC says expenditure within law, Jackson suspect, Partner in FWA. It’s grey, its furry, it’s got four legs and a long tail, and it has sharp rodent teeth. And it smells, like a rat!

  60. “Cu, I myself am 5 foot 1 3/4 inches.”

    The stature of a man is measured from the neck up.

    I guess the same applies to women.

  61. Wasn’t it Phillip Ruddock, who was in charge of the Howard “dirt unit” during the Howard years? The “dirt unit “was located in Sydney.

  62. I would like to see the MSM track down that blonde Abbott was chatting up at the bar when he visited Chrismas Is. That should not be too difficult as it did not happen 5 years ago.

  63. Hi Bacchus, Censorship is not something I’d normally opt for, but past experience has shown certain people only desist when they know they are wasting their time. Another poster here has said elsewhere that the insults don’t bother her and that she returns fire. Sadly that encourages more and can derail a thread entirely.. Reading an exchange of personal insults is not why I visit the Cafe. While Miglo is out of action I thought I should take responsibility for my own post.

  64. This thread is a perfect example of confirmation bias and wishful thinking. all of Thompson’s body language and demeanour screams deception and dishonesty which you would all be recognising if he was a colaition member. Its only really the fact that he holds that crucial vote in the house that is keeping him from resigning.

  65. Sue @8.07am. That article had me wondering how good a prostitute’s memory is that she could, without any chance of being mistaken, remember one particular man who she had provided services for years previously. I know from criminal law that suspects are often mistaken in a lineup which took place only days after the event.

  66. lunalava, yes that was in happier days for Tony Abbott last April. He went up to Christmas Island to check on the critical detainee situation but got sidetracked! Not just by the blonde though. Happier days for him when he was on Cloud Nine with the keys to the Lodge almost in his grasp.

    “Fantastic way to start the day!”
    Tony Abbott was heard to say,
    Having fun with the AFP
    On their morning dip in a clear blue sea.

    As usual someone from the press
    Was there to snap him in ‘undress.’
    The Australian reported on that swim
    And how Christmas Island welcomed him.

    He was greeted like a pop star,
    Chatted up a blonde perched at the bar,
    Played some pool while he had a beer,
    Put down the PM to raise a cheer.

    Unmoved by riots he hardly deigned
    To meet asylum seekers long detained.
    He passed on a chance to be bombastic?
    Why bother? Already his trip had been “fantastic!”

    Mind you I don’t think Tony Abbott is likely ever to give the gossips anything real in the way of a scandal. One reads innuendo about him and his chief of staff, but I think that’s just wishful thinking from some lefties. He and Credlin are so focussed on his getting the top job I’d say they were incapable of any spark or warmth that would give rise to an indiscretion.

  67. Nine Network’s A Current Affair…the Murdoch rag?

    What do you expect?

    The usual HIT TEAM.

    N’

  68. Sue, I’d happily pay $60, 000 to forget Tony Abbott!

    Min, re body language, outside courts and the law, I think I’m like you and many people. We use our observation of strangers and their body language, facial expressions and voice tone as well as what they say to assess how we feel about them. We were able to focus entirely on him for almost an hour. He seemed like a decent human being under enormous stress, but not someone acting a part. What he had to say was convincing too in the light of what we already know about our media.

  69. Nasking
    it seems the esteemed msm are betting, so far the bets go

    the bet, 1 peeping tom “public interest” showering wife story
    the raise, $60,000 I recognise him says prostitute

  70. “Thompson’s body language…”

    It’s an easy mistake to make isn’t it Iain ?

    But not if you’re Craig Thomson.

  71. “To buy a story from a prostitute is chequebook journalism at its worst.

    “Who is going to take this seriously when they pay a prostitute money?

    “It has absolutely no credibility,” said Craig.

  72. Sue,
    why do I get the feeling I’m back in Nth America?

    Ahhh that’s right…sleeze journalism…prostitutes being used to try and bring down politicians…loopy extreme right-wing politicians…do and say anything to win mentality…over-the-top gambling…

    even this:

    Christian schools a ‘threat’ against secularism, says expert
    May 23, 2012

    The secular “common good” in Australia is at risk as more children are educated at non-government Christian schools, a leading expert in social inclusion will argue at the University of Queensland tonight.

    Professor Marion Maddox, the director for research on social inclusion at Macquarie University, said private school students were likely to miss out on basic information about science and politics if the curriculum conflicted with the school’s religious views.

    The seminar follows analysis of the 2012 federal budget that revealed funding to government schools would be cut as money allocated to private schools goes up, leaving independent school students more than $100 better off over the next four years.

    Most public school funding is sourced from state governments.

    Speaking ahead of her talk, Professor Maddox said recent policy changes allowed for more religion in state schools, with the “Christianisation” harbouring a range of negative consequences, including an end to secularism in Australia.
    “The fact that an increasing proportion of students are being educated in schools that determinedly disavow those values of inclusion and equality that we think of as Australian is a cause for concern,” she said.

    “There are plenty of cases of teachers who have been sacked, or students who have been expelled because of their sexuality or sexual behaviour in ways that would be prohibited by law if they were state schools, and yet these schools take government money and cite religious freedom, and that’s something we haven’t really had a public debate about.”

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/christian-schools-a-threat-against-secularism-says-expert-20120523-1z4bo.html
    ———–
    I couldn’t agree more. Religious education will divide this country more than you can imagine.

    Whilst I lived in Canada for a decade I watched religious disputes tear America apart.

    The MESS we see today comes partly from the growth of religious extremism and competition between corporatised and profiteering religious institutions.

    It will be the death of us all if we don’t get saner.

    N’

  73. Patricia, that is precisely the case with body language. It depends upon the preconceived notions of the observer. For example, one person might say “He looks shifty”, but the next might say “He seems to be under enormous stress”. It’s the same body language but interpreted differently by the viewer.

    Many times here (Cu), it has been observed that the media has chosen to interpret Gillard as being under pressure whereas to others she appeared in control and enjoying herself.

  74. The Catholics might’ve won a pyrrhic victory back in the Whitlam days with guaranteed federal funding of their schools.

    It had to be done, but it created an awful precedent.

  75. Min
    May 24, 2012 @ 8:31 am

    Iain, fortunately body language isn’t recognised as supportive evidence in a court of law.

    Really Min don’t you understand that the veracity of every witness is judged on such things?

    Its an essential part of every Jury trial, every parliamentary inquiry, every time that we buy something we judge the honesty of the seller. In fact its a fundamental part of living in society.

  76. Iain, actually not. Witnesses are judged on factual evidence and not via their physical appearance. Certainly there are those who will say he/she looks shifty, therefore he/she must be guilty but obviously these types are usually eliminated from jury service. If they do serve on juries, then there are usually sufficient others who will follow directives to deal with the evidence only.

  77. Nas’ @9.30am. I agree entirely. If private schools are to take government handouts, then they should be required by law to follow the same rules such as the ones cited regarding the curriculum and freedom of sexual preferences.

    There was only story a week or so ago where the female teacher was sacked due to being pregnant out of wedlock, this did not conform with the school’s religious requirements of “morality”. There was also the story of 2 lesbian senior girls expelled when they wanted to partner each other to the school formal.

  78. For those whose eyesight is a little better than mine, this comment comes from the Café’s Facebook site..

    Les wrote: “On another thread, I have said that it looks like the suburb is SURAY HILLS, not SURRY HILLs. What do you think?”

  79. Agreed Min, it is subjective. But we interpret so called factual evidence through our mental preconceptions too, don’t we? I guess that’s why we’ve developed the juror system, understanding as we do after centuries of ‘trials’ and ‘errors’ how imperfect the best of judgements can be. Our appeals process attempts to remedy that too!

  80. Witnesses are judged on factual evidence and not via their physical appearance.

    Min, having just been seconded to two juries in as many weeks (one as foreperson) and both for rape … I can assure that the demeanour of witnesses had a big impact on the jurors … as it should … 70% of our communication is via NVC* (of which body language is a small part) … the majority in facial expression … in fact one of the judges remarked upon the fact when introducing a video testimony from a child …

    (And you know, Iain, and, I, don’t generally see eye to eye …)

    BTW, as one of the plebs, after serving on the juries, I’m happy to report that the system does work …

    * Non Verbal Communication …

  81. Another thing to be remembered is that it would appear from newspaper reports, that there will be no criminal charges laid but that it will be a civil matter. “Only the United States and Canada make routine use of jury trials in a wide variety of non-criminal cases.”

  82. Mangrove Jack wrote:
    The Catholics might’ve won a pyrrhic victory back in the Whitlam days with guaranteed federal funding of their schools.
    It had to be done, but it created an awful precedent.

    Indeed MJ.

    I still don’t think many people understand the possible consequences of the Bush administration’s pre-emptive strike on Iraq.

    Christian conservatives helped Bush win those elections.

    We know that Al Qaeda identified the Iraq sanctions and deaths of children as being a major motivator for the 9/11 attacks…and a number of other factors, including support for Israel…and US bases on Arab land.

    How long will it be before another Al Qaeda type group decides to punish America, Saudi and Israel for the Iraq War, Afghan War, War on Terror…the latest attacks it perceives on the innocent Muslim people…and occupations of their territory?

    What if they are patiently waiting for another Republican president backed by fervent Christians and the extremists of the Israel lobby?

    Opportunist media desiring attention…combined with an administration infiltrated by various Christian fundies and Jewish extremists…corporates and individuals who benefit from military engagements…finance companies hoping to shift attention from their own wrongdoings and calls for more regulation…and a population driven by religious superstition and myths…

    before you know it America could be dropping tactical nukes…with the help of Israel…

    Pakistani nuclear facilities overrun by an enraged population looking to religious extremists for answers…mayhem…Saudis turn on their kingdom…what is left of Iran, Yemen and other targetted countries joins the United Muslim Front for Truth and Justice…

    bombs go off and mass poisonings across America, Australia, the UK, France, Canada and Germany.

    Muslims are herded into internment camps…some are slaughtered as they were in
    Srebrenica…but by Christian vigilante groups identifying themselves as Nation One.

    Civil wars explode in each of these countries…

    Russia and China see this as an opportunity to crush the ANZUS and NATO scourge…

    all thanks to a bunch of religious nutbags who backed GW Bush into the White House…

    and a bunch of religious nutbags playing Muslim vigilantes.

    Do we really need to add more religious bigotry and superstition paid for by government to the mix?

    To increase the chances of sh*t raining down on our heads?

    N’

  83. Min
    TB is spot on there. The point about jury trails is that by having a group of people considering the matter it is hoped that their various biases will balance out in the quest for the truth and subsequently justice.
    Thompson had several “tells” in his behaviour, like his excessive water sipping during the speech and his dull monotone delivery his frequently downcast eyes is another.
    I know that you want to believe that his fantastical story is true but how much of that is down to the sure knowledge that if he falls then so to does Gillard?
    Its all well and good to believe that Gillard is a better option than Abbott but surely if you want to remain credible as a commentator you have to admit that Thompson is well dodgy and that his performance was unconvincing

  84. Min,
    It’s the exponential growth of religious propaganda machine schools that worries me…of all types.

    N’

  85. (Iain makes some good points; (confirmation) biases are (said to be) detectable in large data-sets at levels of significance when jury decisions are reassessed in terms of differential rates of conviction and penalty for different kinds of people; and the rates of conviction and penalty only increase with cross-cultural incompetence and/or prejudice and decrease with socio-cultural affinities, apparently. How that kind of understanding interfaces with Iain’s and/or Min’s hypothesis(es) about what is good or ideal for justiciable occasions, as compared or contrasted with inertial generalities and/or proclivities about ‘reading’ NVCs, I am not sure.)

  86. You think Abbott is a nutbag now…you wait and see how he incrementally shifts over time…with the aid of the old kook Murdoch…and some of his ranting mates like Jones and Bolt.

    Any wonder they will do anything to pull this government down?

    N’

  87. Iain and

    Thompson had several “tells” in his behaviour, like his excessive water sipping during the speech and his dull monotone delivery his frequently downcast eyes is another.

    On the other hand, Thomson has Graves’ disease..are you absolutely certain which traits might or might not be caused by this?

    Symptoms of Graves’ disease include: Anxiety – Difficulty concentrating – Double vision – Eyeballs that stick out (exophthalmos) – Eye irritation and tearing – Fatigue –
    Heat intolerance – Increased appetite – Increased sweating – Muscle weakness – Nervousness.

    Hence the reason that one should not be judgemental based on appearances, because who knows what condition the person is suffering from, which might give the impression for example, of “nervousness” or that excessive water sipping has a direct causal relationship to increased sweating.

  88. For someone with Graves disease he is coping very well. But then he is coping very well regardless of that. My sense (!) is that comes from a clear conscience.

  89. Pingback: Ah So Desu Ka* #2: The Thomson Debacle – Credulity Suspended! | Deknarf: The Australia Blog

  90. if you want to remain credible as a commentator you have to admit that Thompson is well dodgy and that his performance was unconvincing

    That statement is nothing more than your own “confirmation bias” Iain. Two constituents in Dobell interviewed on ABC24 immediately after Thomson’s statement said they thought he was genuine and telling the truth…

  91. patricia, it’s Oakeshott who has Graves disease but having said that, Craig Thomson has the full weight of the crooked main stream media chasing him with the express purpose of destroying him, for their boy Tony The Mad.

    Iain carries no weight in the credibility department if he’s basing his opinions on the words of the main stream propagandists.

  92. Wilkie: Improper For Parliament To Act As Judge And Jury In Thomson Case
    May 21, 2012

    The independent member for Denison, Andrew Wilkie, has issued a statement on Craig Thomson in which he says it would be improper for the Parliament to act as judge and jury.

    Wilkie provides a clear statement of the constitutional situation set out in Section 44 of the Constitution.

    I think the Craig Thomson saga stinks. But my personal view is largely irrelevant.

    According to the principles of natural justice he’s innocent until proven guilty and entitled to a fair hearing. So unless the findings against him have been tested in a properly constituted court, where he has the opportunity to defend himself, we must accord him the presumption of innocence no matter how much that grates.

    Moreover according to the Constitution Craig Thomson is eligible to remain in the Parliament until and unless he’s found guilty of a criminal offence punishable by a year or more imprisonment. If his circumstances or any other issue highlights shortfalls in that provision then the Parliament needs to consider seeking to change it.

    In fact it could reasonably be argued Craig Thomson has the right to remain in the Parliament free of intimidation, if only by virtue of the Crimes Act 1914 Section 28 which imposes a penalty of three year’s imprisonment for interfering with political liberty.

    Frankly the Parliament isn’t a court and for it to think it’s judge and jury when dealing with Craig Thomson would be entirely improper.

    cont.,
    http://australianpolitics.com/2012/05/21/wilkie-says-parliament-not-judge-and-jury.html

  93. Meta, it is all about generalities and we can go right back to phrenology where the shape of the head indicated certain personality traits.

  94. Independent Andrew Wlkie went on to say this:-

    What the Parliament should now focus on is restoring the trust and respect of the Australian community. Yes, there is widespread and understandable concern with the controversy surrounding Craig Thomson. But there’s much more concern with all the grand political game-playing going on right now. And there’s much greater interest in the Government getting on and running the country well, and in the Opposition showing it’s a credible alternative

    http://australianpolitics.com/2012/05/21/wilkie-says-parliament-not-judge-and-jury.html

    The “credible alternative” mob have placed Senator Eric Abetz in the asylum, where he is doing a forensic search of Craig Thomson’s speech, looking for evidence that he mislead the Parliament.
    Abetz is the man who gleefully received what he believed to be genuine Treasury documents from Treasury staffer, Godwin Gretch, in the silliest most amateurish cloak and dagger “leak” story of the century. Interestingly, Abetz suffered no punishment.

    Abetz is a hypocrite.

  95. “Thompson had several “tells” in his behaviour, like his excessive water sipping during the speech and his dull monotone delivery his frequently downcast eyes is another.”

    Iain’s writing the forward to Allan Pease’s new book: “Confirmation Bias and Associated Excessive Water Sipping”.

    Emboldened by his mastery of macroeconomics and monetary systems (see his “Tainted Love” posts), Iain is now lecturing us on the rules of evidence.

    For someone with such acute powers of observation I’m curious about why Iain keeps typing “Thompson”. Maybe he thinks it will become the new “truth”.

  96. Tom, from your link

    ‘‘What I am here to say is enough is enough,’’ Mr Thomson said.

    ‘‘I’m not sure how much scrutiny people expect on these issues but nine investigations probably does it.’’

    That’s right folks, nine investigations into the HSU, yet Channel Nine is prepared to pay a reported $60,000.00 to a prostitute, to say that she recognised Craig Thomson.

    Also

    Mr Thomson has hit back, saying he refused an offer from the show’s producers to view a DVD of the interview with the woman once he learnt she had been paid to appear.

    ‘‘They said they have got the tape if you want to see it. I asked them if they paid for the interview and they said ‘yes’,’’ Mr Thomson said.

    ‘‘To buy a story from a prostitute is chequebook journalism at its worst.

    ‘‘Who is going to take this seriously when they pay a prostitute money? It has absolutely no credibility.’’

    It is understood lawyers for Nine are examining the program’s content and that the report may not be aired until next week – if at all.

    Mr Thomson also claimed ACA had offered to pay his wife ‘‘a substantial amount of money for an interview’’.

    Follow the money – advertising sponsors will pay Channel Nine a hell of a lot more than $60,000.00 for the privilege of ads being shown before, during, and after the .prostitute segment on A Current Affair

    Also reported yesterday..

    Court action against HSU officers in Vic
    May 23, 2012
    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/court-action-against-hsu-officers-in-vic-20120523-1z526.html

    I have done a forensic search through this article and there is definitely no mention of a Mr. Craig Thomson MP……

  97. Mangrove Jack, 😆 😆
    For someone with such acute powers of observation I’m curious about why Iain keeps typing “Thompson”. Maybe he thinks it will become the new “truth”.

  98. Yes, Jack, and we even did him the favor of showing him where he’d slipped up! Perhaps Iain is one of those bloggers who don’t bother reading what others have to say if they are not agreeing with him Mind you, I’m guilty of that sometimes too – I scroll on past some bloggers when I’m short of time, but not those adjacent and relevant to my own comments!

    Pip, I think at some point there will be a charge laid against CT. From the government’s point of view it will be enough that he is able to retain his seat until he is found guilty of an offence of a particular gravity. With luck if he is charged, and even later found guilty, time will have run out for the Opposition. Meanwhile I think they’ve run out of steam anyway. The public are turning off in a big way and the MSM know it, as one can tell from the tone of commentary.

  99. patricia, I have no idea whether Craig Thomson will be charged with anything or not, but the Coalition have moved on to trying to have him found gound guilty of misleading the Parliament, just in case he isn’t charged….

    Abbott was completely unhinged yesterday in QT… all transmission and no reception!

  100. I note the committee have asked for details of exactly where Thom(P)son is supposed to have been misleading.

    Does anyone know if they have been forthcoming yet?

  101. Tom, on ABC’s AM program…

    Oppn quizzes AEC over Thomson

    TONY EASTLEY: As the powerful Privileges Committee met in Canberra last night to examine the Craig Thomson affair, Opposition members in another meeting were turning up the heat on the Electoral Commission which concluded in a recent report that the former Labor MP, Craig Thomson did not breach the Electoral Act in the lead up to the 2007 election.

    The assessment appears to fly in the face of the damning findings by Fair Work Australia which found Mr Thomson he misused hundreds of thousands of union dollars to help his campaign.

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3509717.htm

  102. I am a great believer in Non Verbal Communication. One only has to look at the body language of the PM and Abbott. One is relaxed and confident. The other appearing to be shaking with anger and desperation. We had example of the body language and tremor in hos voice, of Mr. Pyne being near tears.

    One needs to remember, that our Supreme Court where there is a panel of judges, there is rarely an unanimous decision.

    PS One also has to be very careful with NVC. One needs to take into consideration physical disabilities and the pressure that one is under.

    Some find it very hard to defend themselves. Others can lie at will. One must also be aware of their own perceptions and hearing only what they expect to hear.

  103. “Some find it very hard to defend themselves. Others can lie at will. One must also be aware of their own perceptions and hearing only what they expect to hear.”

    I learned a long time ago that I’m a terrible judge of character, CU.

    But I’d rather admit that failing and continue to assume the best of motives in everybody, until proven wrong.

    I make an exception for Tony Abbott of course.

  104. I was just reading about Abbott and the threat to Edwards.
    Edwards had said about Abbott, “you’re a disgrace”. Abbott then moved towards the opposition benches at Graham Edwards, a legless Vietnam Veteran. Abbott was thrown out of the House.
    see page 218 The Way They Were: The View from the Hill of the 25 Years That Remade Australia, Alan Ramsay

  105. I am with Wilkie on this one. Pip from your link:

    I think the Craig Thomson saga stinks. But my personal view is largely irrelevant.

    According to the principles of natural justice he’s innocent until proven guilty and entitled to a fair hearing. So unless the findings against him have been tested in a properly constituted court, where he has the opportunity to defend himself, we must accord him the presumption of innocence no matter how much that grates.

    And that dear friends, is it in a nutshell. Full stop, end of story.

  106. MJ, I am in agreement. When learnt judges, after having all the evidence in front of them, cannot always agree, who are we the public think we can do better.

    It is better for everyone to shut up or maybe down and let the judicial process proceed.

    I suspect, they with all the muddying of the waters are going to have problems wading through the mire.

    Good governance or justices is not being served at this time.

  107. Pingback: Where is Craig Thomson when you need him? | Iain Hall's SANDPIT

  108. reb @6.12pm 23/5, since all the mud has come from the Noalition and the Murdoch press, I KNOW he’s completely innocent.

    And why are the so-called “whistleblower” the darling of the HR Nicholls Society, and her boyfriend, who have many many more questions to answer about skullduggery and fingers in the Union till than Thomson not being subject to investigation by the press?

    The complete absence of interest in her behaviour by the msm is beyond suspicious, it reeks of cover up.

    And I believe the AEC has pronounced judgement on FWA’s work as a complete crock! So are you saying that the AEC doesn’t know what it’s doing?

    As for the old “if you’re innocent, you have nothing to fear by talking to the police” routine, try telling that to all the people who have been verballed and done time. The Mickleberg brothers is a case in point.

    http://stju.blogspot.com.au/2011/04/vindictive-west-australian-cops-still.html

    John Button is another.

    http://stju.blogspot.com.au/2006/02/another-legal-coverup-man-wrongly.html

    <blockquote……..funny that, considering that the majority of our authors are men.

    Ah, Min. We bitter pills must have emasculated them. I must say I have a lot more success here than I do with the male types in my family, who remain frustratingly masculated and bloody opinionated, the swine!

    When Tony Abbott has a win a parliament let me know and I’ll run naked down Minjungbal Drive all the way to Kirra Beach.

    And I’ll bare my @rse for a dartboard in Rundle Mall, Min. I reckin we’re both pretty safe.

    Wow! ACA showed a prostitute a photo of Craig Thomson and she RECOGNISED him!!!! I would have been more surprised if she said she had no idea who he was, ffs. His face has been plastered over every TV screen and every newspaper for months.

    I wonder if she’d recognise Liealot if they showed her a photo of him, IF they ever get her on air. No doubt their probing question will be “Do you recognise this photo of embattled MP Craig Thomson?” What a f*cken crock!

    Abetz is a hypocrite.

    And an inveterate LIAR!

    Pip @2.46pm, I’d laugh if the AEC replied that they might investigate ALL MP’s claims. I think there would be a flurry of Liars racing to their accountants, lawyers etc.

    Frankly, I think the government should call Liealot’s bluff and threaten to bring in the Feds.

  109. Time for the forces of the Coalition and their co-operatives in the media to pause and reflect.

    Lessons of a brutal game
    PAUL DALEY December 18, 2011

    http://m.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/lessons-of-a-brutal-game-20111217-1ozpi.html

    Sherry’s near-tragedy, of course, made our politicians stop and reconsider what was important. For about three minutes.

    Then they ripped into each other again, until three years later when the Labor MP Greg Wilton killed himself.

    The Parliament grieved amid the bitter, cruel realisation that political networks are no substitute for the genuine human kind.

    Days later, the Parliament was again at its worst. It was then I encountered a well-known politician in a hall near the House of Representatives after question time. I knew her well. She was sobbing so uncontrollably I gave her my handkerchief. ”It’s so disgusting,” she said. ”I hate it.” She is still an MP, having risen to significant heights.

  110. Transcript
    15/6/2000
    Questions over MP’s suicide

    KERRY O’BRIEN: The suicide of Federal Labor backbencher Greg Wilton in a remote national park in Victoria yesterday has again put media coverage of such tragedies under scrutiny.

    Former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett, who now heads the National Depression Initiative, has attacked the media’s coverage of an incident involving Mr Wilton and his children three weeks ago.

    Mr Kennett argues the nature of the coverage contributed significantly to yesterday’s tragedy.

    The Press Council rebuts the claim on the grounds that there were compelling public interest reasons to report the earlier incident.

    The Federal Health Department has set out guidelines for media coverage of suicides, but the code remains purely voluntary.

    JEFF KENNETT, NATIONAL DEPRESSION INITIATIVE: He expressed he needed help, and unfortunately, the media then, instead of giving him privacy to deal with his issue, exposed him to public humiliation throughout the country.

    Now, I’m not saying the media caused his tragic demise, but I’m also saying that the media have got to accept some responsibility.

    KELVIN THOMSON, FEDERAL MP: In recent times, for quite some years now, the media have tended to recognise no boundaries whatsoever.

    So they regard absolutely everything as reportable.

    I think this is unfortunate.

    I think that there are some areas of one’s personal life or conduct that should not be the matter of public scrutiny.

    NATASHA JOHNSON: Three weeks after his personal turmoil first hit the headlines, Victorian Labor MP Greg Wilton is dead.

    His body was found yesterday in his car in an isolated State park.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s140872.htm

  111. Former Liberal Mp John Brogden

    John Gilbert Brogden (born 28 March 1969) is an Australian businessman and former politician, who was Leader of the Opposition in New South Wales from 2002 to 2005. He was a Liberal Party member of the New South Wales Legislative Assembly from May 1996 until his resignation in August 2005, representing the electorate of Pittwater.

    Brogden’s resignation as leader followed a public outcry over alleged sexual harassment and a remark calling the Malaysian-born wife of Bob Carr (the then Premier of NSW), a “mail-order bride”.[1] Soon after his resignation he attempted suicide.[2][3] Shortly afterwards, he resigned from parliament. After politics he served as the CEO and chairperson of various organisations in the financial services sector. He is the Australian national patron of the crisis support service, Lifeline.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brogden_(politician)

    Suicide shouldn’t be a taboo subject John Brogden
    April 1, 2010.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/suicide-shouldnt-be-a-taboo-subject-20100331-reqr.html#ixzz1vm6q3Q24

  112. Sue. Ruddock was the guy who had the ability to solved Australia’s border protection problem.
    Min. The queue jumpers were not invited here. They crashed our borders, took advantage of Rudd and gillard’s weak and stupid BP theories. Min it is like organising counselling for someone who has broken into your home.
    CU I see you are as stupid as ever…. hang in there sunshine.
    I was watching Lachlan Harris on Skynews just now. Fair dinkum what exactly was going through Rudd’s head when he employed that giggle palace.
    I see the Cafe Whisperers still live in a teacup and continue to have zip relevance in the real world.
    I must admit I admire your collective tenacity in taking the head butts for supporting your positions of “Craig didn’t do it”, “Gillard is a great PM” , “Labor is doing the ROIT thing” NSW ALP leader Anderson back peddling every which way to avoid saying the two simple words “Carbon Tax”. Like Labor he is a FW and a joke.
    Glad to be back.
    Geoff

  113. Geoff if you come here to insult, please get your facts rigth. We are not saying Thomson is innocence. We are saying that he is not being given justice.

    Geoff, Iain, Tweet etc where do you take your orders from. Why have I upset you all so.

    The fact that you attack so hard, only proves I am getting under your skin. Must be saying something that hurts.

    As for the PM, I do believe she has been doing a good job. I also believe she is made of stern stuff. Mr. Abbott with all his bluster and all his bullying, up to now has not laid a glove on her.

    Do you go round in the real world, calling people stupid. I suspect not, as you are still able to write stupid, meaningless comments.

    Why come here.

  114. Geoff. Queue jumpers? Tell that to the French underground WW2. Tell that to the the fighters for democracy in Iraq.

    CU I see you are as stupid as ever…. hang in there sunshine.

    Geoff, want to contribute to this blog in the future? My temper at present is on an extremely short fuse.

    You are welcome to contribute, but start with personal insults and you may find yourself back on a Bolt-lite blog.

  115. Geoff, nice to see that you’re still a complete and utter wanker of the first order. keep it up, dipstick. No wonder we all laugh in your face.

    Even Ruddock’s daughter said he was a cold monster and fled the family home. A great endorsement for the undead. And he still looks like they’ve just dug him out oif the Menzies House cesspit.

    BTW, is that where you reside during daylight hours?

  116. CU, who wouldn’t feel ashamed to be related to a creature like Ruddock? As for the brain, I believe they have a barely used communal brain cell.

    I really enjoyed Albo’s performance in response to Liealot’s bogus censure motion. The PM and all the ministers were also on fire, I thought. Swannie’s really on song as well.

  117. Sorry Geoff. At seventy, my eyesight is not that good, Shame I cannot be as perfect as you. Can you point out the misspelt word and I will fix it up.

    I do spell check, but sometimes they give me the wrong word.

    I am lucky I have you to point out my mistakes.

  118. Sue, that story about Thomson pleading for mercy has been repeated over and over. I don’t see him pleading for anything. Just stating the obvious – that the media are over the top and crazy. Yes he’s asked them to give him a break – nine enquiries so far! And still he hasn’t been charged. He seemed pretty calm, cool and in control as he walked away from their hysterical pursuit.

    Geoff – forget about spell check. Just appreciate Cu’s reasoning. She thinks well and for that you’ll have to live with the odd mis-spell.

  119. All the “human” concern displayed by Abbott, apart from making me feel like throwing up, reeks of another strategy for attack. If “poor ” Craig were to harm himself than Abbott could attack The PM, under the guise, we implored the PM to ask Craig to resign for his health’s sake. But….(throw in illegitimate govt, cling to power, ) … she would not listen, just as she does not listen to the Australian people.

    When will Abbott be exposed or better still who in the msm has the integrity to write an honest assessment of this fraud of a man. Afterall he had no qualms about his role in Pauline Hanson going to gaol.

  120. Sue, wixxy’s post is doing the rounds on Twitter 😀

    This paragraph is next to the cartoon – la Grattan is as biased as ever

    The program put its allegations to Mr Thomson at a meeting on Wednesday and tried, unsuccessfully to get him to watch an interview it has done with a former escort, who worked for Boardroom Escorts.

    Not good enough Michelle Grattan, in a more reliable report, Mr. Thomson said that he asked whether the escort was being paid by Channel Nine, and when they said yes, it was, he refused to see the video

    See how easy it is to change a story by omission….. that, to me, is as good as a lie!.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/thomson-pleads-for-mercy-as-new-claim-emerges-20120524-1z7x5.html#ixzz1vtZLacIr

  121. Brandis unfit to be attorney-general: Milne
    Published 1:12 PM, 24 May 2012 Last update 1:12 PM, 24 May 2012

    Greens leader Christine Milne says comments by shadow attorney-general George Brandis regarding the Craig Thomson scandal suggest he isn’t fit to be Australia’s first law officer.

    also

    Senator Brandis has said while the committee normally met in private in the case of Mr Thomson he wouldn’t be at all surprised if there were to be public hearings.

    Senator Milne says that’s an “appalling” and “disgraceful” idea.

    “You have to ask what sort of Australia would you end up with with an attorney-general who wants to turn the privileges committee away from all its established tradition, of being a respected institution of the parliament, to turn it into some kangaroo court,” the Tasmanian senator told reporters in Canberra on Thursday.

    “This is completely unacceptable.”

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Brandis-unfit-to-be-A-G-Milne-suggests-UL5GF?OpenDocument

  122. Loco LOTO, Tony Abbott makes Macchiavelli seem like John the Baptist.

    Tony Abbott’s early strike on Craig Thomson
    by: Dennis Shanahan and Sid Maher
    From: The Australian May 26, 2012 12:00AM

    TONY Abbott has categorically ruled out relying on Craig Thomson’s vote in parliament under any circumstances – even in a vote of no-confidence in the Gillard government.
    In the face of a mounting campaign to blame the Opposition Leader for placing the Labor MP-turned-independent under unbearable emotional stress, and amid stated fears about suicide, Mr Abbott rejected any reliance on Mr Thomson in parliament.

    “The Coalition will not accept Craig Thomson’s vote on the floor of the parliament under any circumstances,” he told The Weekend Australian last night.

    Mr Abbott’s tactic stems from the fact Mr Thomson no longer sits with the government and is now on the crossbenches, although he has vowed to vote with Labor.

    Mr Abbott’s comment is designed to pre-empt Labor giving Mr Thomson leave and then demanding the Coalition withdraw one of its own MPs in a parliamentary arrangement to maintain Labor’s advantage in the House of Representatives.

    The puce coloured face of the enraged Mr. Pyne was a sight to behold, pointing at, and speaking over Madame Deputy Speaker; he was aggressive, disrespectful and
    II suspect, having the time of his life on the big stage.
    His clever show of concern for Mr. Thomson included the suggestion
    that he should take leave

    But the manager of opposition business in the house, Mr Pyne, told Radio 2GB: “If the government wanted to they could tomorrow – Craig Thomson could go on leave of absence to get his health organised and look after his family, to deal with the very significant findings that have been made against him and any impending court matters. When they are all resolved, he could come back to parliament. It’s only the government keeping him there, not the Coalition.”

    Speaker Slipper is out of the way and Pyne is pushing Thomson to get out of the way, after which, in his dreams, he will have a few drinks with the other cross benchers and twist a few arms after which a vote which will bring down the government. Simple, and transparent, and wrong.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/tony-abbotts-early-strike-on-craig-thomson/story-fndsip4d-1226367471208

  123. Waiting for Min to give us a ruling on where best to continue this topic. This thread is focussed on Craig Thomson, but the latest Wixxy revelations are broadening out the whole issue to a question of where mainstream media have been trying to take the story. Whether they are looking for sensation and circulation, or just the numbers to influence public opinion against the government, is irrelevant. They may well find themselves exposed to huge defamation costs if it turns out that Kathy Jackson is no heroine, but the villainess of the whole saga!

  124. Min has suggested on the other thread that material directly relating to the HSU story and the credibility of the main characters she would bring here. That makes sense – until we get a new post, that is. In the meantime general stuff relating to the media goes to the Media XVII or even Murdoch thread.

    Nothing much is happening on either front, and I guess it won’t until Monday by which time maybe Fairfax or News will have taken legal advice about where Wixxy’s information leaves them! Or perhaps one of the Sunday papers will surprise us by taking a stand, splashing the idea that Craig Thomson might be innocent as a cover story!

  125. Patricia, Migs and I as Admin give a lot of leeway. If a person thinks that a comment should be on Media Watch, Open Thread or a current topic, then we do not fuss about it.

    This blog is a vibrant thing where people are free to comment without hard and fast rules.

    It is not your usual ye olde blog where there is but one topic, here there are many and I believe that this makes for freedom of expression. That is the way that this blog has evolved, and I believe that through this freedom has created something quite unique.

    This is my personal opinion as fill in for Migs while he is unwell..otherwise contact Migs.

  126. Min, I like the way the blogs go. Especially now we have those permanent ones at the top of the page,

    On puts up a post, not knowing even if anyone will read it. Then behold, it’s takes off down it’s own path.

    The trouble we have at the moment, is that there is so much going on in the political world. We have all the noise and scandal that Abbott’s attempts to ramp up each day, which in reality has little to do with, or reflects were we are at today,.

    At the same day, we have much legislation being introduced and enacted, that affect all parts of out lives, economy, environment. There is much being done that is putting in place the structured needed for the future.

    Yes, there are two worlds out there.

    One thing I noticed, with all the activity going on, this government has had a clear run on most of it;s actions.

    Today is an exception. Many have voice disappointed at the announcement on Friday, that Gina will be able to import 1700 workers.

    This, in my belief a positive reaction. It shows that people are listening. Whether the PM is correct or not, we will discover when more is known.

    After all it is Saturday night.

    At least it distracted from Thomson.

  127. this from comments in wixxy’s latest :
    “The only thing missing from this story is the fact that according to Nassios in the FWA report: after Nassios asked the HSU to provide all financial and management records for the time period that Craig Thomson was working for the HSU it was Kathy Jackson who personally delivered all 12 boxes of records.

    That’s right, the complainant was the one who checked out all the records personally and then delivered them to the FWA.

    Once Nassios checked through the records he found that many documents he expected to find like the minutes of all board meetings were not in the documents provided.

    He rang the HSU and was unable to talk to Kathy Jackson as she had left the country so he asked other staff there if there were any records that had failed to be delivered to him. The staff assured him that he had been given the records but they actually can’t know that this was the case. At best they can testify that Kathy Jackson checked out all the records as none of them were present when she delivered the documents.

    However Nassios concludes in the report that since the documents – like the minutes of the board meetings – are missing and since the staff of the HSU say all of the documents were sent to him, that this must mean that Craig Thomson didn’t make these records.

    So firstly why on earth was an executive getting paid over a quarter of a million a year plus benefits doing such a mundane job as being a courier?

    Secondly what proof is there she actually delivered all the records?

    Thirdly, why did Nassios not question the fact that Jackson had just had unrestricted access to the records before they came into his possession?

    Serendipitous for Jackson those minutes are missing if Craig Thomson is actually telling the truth about him trying to implement procedures and standards of accounting to the HSU and being actively resisted by Kathy Jackson. Those would be the exact records that could prove that one way or another.”
    http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/thomson-and-jackson-5-sticky-fingers/#commentspost

  128. “Once Nassios checked through the records he found that many documents he expected to find like the minutes of all board meetings were not in the documents provided.”

    Funny thing about this story. Mr. Thomson is said to have destroyed records. If so, why did he leave those that have condemned Him. What is missing is the records that may clear him.

    The second thing, all the allegations, against all in the sin bin, have come from Ms. Jackson.

    Ms, Jackson is acting on her own, with none or at most a little support from the HSU.

    Members are voting across the country for her to go.

    We have two scenarios.

    One, the Ms. Jackson, over many years, many changes to the structure of the union, is the only honest and truthful person in the union.

    The other is that Ms. Jackson has taken out all that oppose her, destroying them on the way.

    We either have a union where all but one is corrupt, or that one corrupt person has create mayhem in the union, at all levels.

    What we do know, is the fact that Ms. Jackson does not take direction from the union or any other body.

    What we do know, the allegations that have been made against Mr. Thomson, have been laid against many other officials. They all come from and are managed by Ms. Jackson.

    Where is the evidence that Ms. Jackson placed her concerns before any HSU meeting.

    We do know that on more than one occasion, including this year, approached the courts, to have people found illegible and prevent them standing for elections.

    This was even after the HSU east has an administrator, which she seemed t be able to influence. That administrator I believe, returned to the FWA.

  129. Should Craig Thomson be insulted or take the allegations as a compliment.

    Craig Thomson the super stud, oh yes apparently he was so memorable that a particular prostitute can remember every detail, SEVEN YEARS LATER!!!!

    This is what we are led to believe, if we believe what a certain TV network is telling us, and we must believe it because they say so.
    http://www.goodluckstroke.com/2012/05/prostitute-remembers-every-face-from.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+StrokeOfLuck+%28stroke+of+luck%29

  130. My reading of another media and Abbott beat up.

    The PM and government have done the right thing.

    The PM and government is being condemn for how they did it.

    This has been true of everything aimed at the PM. What the PM is doing is right.

    The PM does not have a clue on how to introduce what is tight.

    Should not that be self explanatory. Should not doing the correct thing carry it’s own weight.

    What the PM does is right. How she does it is more important..

  131. Just heard Cassidy say on Insiders during his interview with Combet.

    price as we call it now.

    Spot on. A price on carbon emission. Not a tax. Not a levy. Just a plain old fashion cost.

    Over one million people do not have to lodge a tax return.

    That is taxation reform of the first order.

    I am looking forward to my handout to cope with the power bills. Which by the way, I have protected myself against with little effort. I have tied myself into no rises for two years. I have lowered my usage dramatically.

  132. Another example of Labor (apparently) not being able to get their message out.

    The PM did a presser this morning about the Pensioner increase/ You wouldn’t know about it from the story. It is all about another media beatup where they appear to have put words into Fitzgibbons mouth .. again. No mention in hte story about what the PM had called the presser for, just her defending unsubstantiated rumours again.

    I liked this but the best

    When asked whether a tweet was a sufficient way to respond to the allegations, Ms Gillard said: “I think his words are clear. So it’s not the vehicle as to how they’ve been disseminated but what they say.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-27/gillard-leadership-in-focus-as-rumours-swirl/4035658

    (ps, you need to watch the video to find out what she was actually talking about)

  133. So tonight will we again get “try as she might, Julia Gillard can’t escape questions about….”. The girl who reads Channel 9 here (so vacuous I don’t know her name) is quite good at this, putting a sort of solemn concern into her voice as she knocks it out again & again.
    I was quite good myself there for a while, not bothering to watch this sort of stuff but lately I’ve regressed.

  134. He did say the minority government was hurting. What he meant by these unfortunate words is confusing. Changing leader will not improve things.

    It will not. There will still be a minority government.

    The words that he should have used, and needs to repeat, the perception that this minority government is illegitimate is harming Labor.

    The question that I then would ask him, what are you doing about changing the perception.

    That is something the PM cannot do on her own.

    I have put this to him on twitter. I wonder if he will reply. I just hope he takes time to ponder on what he is saying.

  135. CU. Cassidy was saying this toung in cheek because he know the instruction from the top is DON’T MENTION THE CARBON TAX.
    I got the subtlety CU.

  136. On other words he has been told to tell the truth.

    I get that too.

    The trouble is, people are going to be looking for that non existent tax in a few weeks. The penny will then drop, Abbott is a big great liar.

  137. Sue, thanks for that lead to North Coast Voices. How crazy that the common sense response of Clarence Girl in comparing photos of Craig Thomson all those years ago with the Craig Thomson of today has not occurred to the producers of ACA. Or did it? Perhaps it did, after all they have amazing investigative skills, being able to track down the very one sex worker who serviced him and remembers him years later amongst all her thousands of clients! They would surely have had the foresight to show her a photograph showing him as he was then, lingering puppy fat, medicare spectaclers and all that youthful hair!

  138. I phoned and left a message of support for Craig Thomson over the weekend. I had a call back first thing this morning. You may be interested to know that he is hanging in there, supported by his wife, family, friends and office team and that every encouraging message helps too. His email address seems to have changed from that given at the government aph site, which is why I phoned instead. But it now is craig.thomson.mp@aph.gov.au if anyone wants to follow up.

  139. Anybody watch Q&A? Appalling isn’t it, that even with a panel of fine satirists, writers and actors not one person conceded to Craig Thomson that right to the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. All of the men condemned him and enjoyed lots of laughter at his expense, even though part of the question addressed to the panel was about that – the assumption of innocence. Miriam Margolyes who was brilliantly fair and funny throughout on most other questions had little chance to add anything to an aside about his relationships with women. Jacqui Weaver expressed sympathy for him since he seemed to be suffering great anguish, no matter what he was alleged to have done, and hoped he wouldn’t top himself! But both of these lovely women ultimately joined in the general hilarity around the idea of the $60, 000 prostitute and ACA somehow having some original and clinching means of ID. Pity, spoilt what was otherwise a brilliant program for me.

  140. Patricia, I didn’t watch Q&A but I’m aware that it attracted a lot of criticism. People on Facebook have been condemning it all night.

  141. He has to be innocence if only so we can get respect for the law back. I forgot to watch it.

    In a way, I am glad they have gone over board. I believe there is a back lash in play.

  142. How can a man, who is second in command of the FWA able to act in a private manner, to make charges about members of an union.

    I say he cannot. Mr. Abbott should be demanding that Parliament take action in this case.

    Ir is a conflict of interest on his part.

    Did I watch the same PM as everyone else yesterday. Listening to the media. she had a shocker yesterday. Would not say no the a question Abbott asked. What PM tells the world how decisions are made.

    Mr. Bowen well and truly answered all questions in relation to the migrant workers.

    Mark Reilly commented on ABC radio, yes they were condemning the PM for mucking things up again, but for the first time they are also talking policy.

  143. Cu, this means a good deal of brain strain for the media..they might actually have to listen to what Tony Abbott and other members of the opposition ssy..

  144. CU
    here is a comment from northcoast voices. this from a story on 2UE about the licence, the credit card, the Thompson rather than Thomson

    “The FWA report states that Craig Thomson’s driver’s licence valid in 2005 carries an expiry date of 31 July 2009. So how is it that the driver’s license on display in the above image has a later expiry date – probably July 2014. Showing a copy of a current driver’s licence hardly proves 2UE’s case re 2005 – especially as a copy of this expiring in 2014 licence was apparently supplied to the FWA investigation by Thomson’s own solicitor. Is the FWA handing out copies of evidence to journalists now?”
    http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6136161833847253297&postID=1321031906761826583the article , the smoking gun
    http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/smoking-gun-in-thomson-vs-media-saga.html

  145. Yoo hoo wixxy..one for you, that’s if you don’t already know about it..wixxy being our investigative journalist. 🙂

  146. I bet the ABC went out digging, hoping to prove Thomson wrong.

    Look at why they found on one small trip. One what they would find if they really started to dig.

    There others who have been accused by this lady. They have paid big a price as a result. Could there also be questions asked about their guilt. Some are already charged by FWA.

    One never knows what is revealed when matters get to court.

    FWA at the senate hearings yesterday, said more that once that the reports speaks for itself. They also said, the place to test it was in court.

    Comments that Mr Abetz chose to ignore.

  147. In the thousands of messages we have received, there was just one that expressed concern for Jackson’s partner, Michael Lawler, Vice President of Fair Work Australia. Lawler has, as we’ve reported, been on “Long Leave” suddenly the working day before Thomson’s address to parliament and has been keeping a low profile since.

    We have some good news for that person, and anyone else with concerns for Lawler. According to several eye-witness reports we have received, he was spotted last week looking dapper and as fresh as a daisy in a café, having a cuppa with his partner Kathy Jackson, along with the manager of Opposition Business Christopher Pyne.

    The same Christopher Pyne who had a late night drinking session James Ashby.

    Hmmm…
    http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/thomson-6-the-falling-few-and-the-fall-guy/#commentspost

  148. CU
    on reading about Pyne having coffee with Lawler and Jackson, my first thought was, is this the way Eric Abetz learnt about the “smoking gun” email. The email Abetz missed but was part of the documents lodged with the Senate on 7 may.

  149. Sue the senate got that email on the seventh this month. They must have missed it.

    Abetz tried to pit the blame back on the FWA saying it was not there.

    The young lawyer, Carruthers I think, that had to find a baby sitter and return tonight said the email did not mean what Abetz thinks it did. It was sent when WorkChoice was changing over to FWA.

    The same lawyer said that she did not believe is should be sent to the police, as there was no evidence.

    Abetz was very nasty tonight.

    When one thinks of it, the police seem to be having trouble finding evidence. After all, according to Brandis it was a open and shut case.

    We still have the inquiry into FWA to come. It could be interesting what that one throws up.

    Mr. Abetz was too angry tonight, to find the evidence he is seeking.

    When one thinks of it, and considering the change over in March 2009, is this investigation really taking a long time. One has to compare it with a commercial investigation, or ever\n taxation. They take years.

    Thomson gave a speech today. Sadly I wish I could agree with what he was talking about.

  150. Sue, they found it in a bundle that was given to the hearing yesterday. I believe it was questions on notice from the last hearings.

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