Friday on my mind: women

Welcome to our Friday open thread.

I was contemplating a catchy title; something which might grab everyone’s attention – immediately the word Sex came to mind. No, I thought, that while this is always a certainty to gain people’s attention I should make this one harder, so to speak. Therefore our Friday topic is: Women. It matters not a bit what the content might be, as long as it has something to do with the feminine gender.

I was thinking of the evolution of feminism, how the status of women has ebbed and gained, only to ebb again during differing times in history.

Compare the women of ancient Greece with those of Sparta:

Under Athenian law it was required that a woman be under the control and assumed protection of a male guardian or kyrios, firstly meaning her father or other adult male relative. Therefore although Greek women might be permitted to own money or property, the control of this property belonged to the male and he was free to dispose of this in any way that he wished. At the same time, he was responsible for making sure she had food, clothing and shelter, and if appropriate he was supposed to provide her with a dowry if she was of a marriageable age. On her own a woman could neither enter into a contract nor any financial transaction worth more than a medimnos of barley. A woman could sell vegetables and handicrafts, and she could purchase household supplies on a day to day basis, but anything bigger than that required the permission of her kyrios.

Meanwhile in Sparta, a differing opinion existed, that a woman with a brain was considered to be an asset. Females were therefore encouraged to be educated and to a standard . As Plato points out (Protagoras) this education was not purely physical. On the contrary, in Sparta “not only men but also women pride themselves on their intellectual culture.” This was more than mere literacy: it was systematic education in rhetoric and philosophical thought.

Go forward to today’s society and we still have these two images of what a woman should be:

The Athenian image versus the Spartan image. Has anything changed? Are women still expected to be subservient to men, and only due to the fact of their gender. I believe that there are people who would be biased based on anything different, be it gender or race or nationality.

**Apologies for the quality of the film clip

204 comments on “Friday on my mind: women

  1. Archie, which is why the media concentrates on such important issues as the size of the PM’s rear end…

    Thinking about it Gough’s was quite substantial, but it didn’t receive anywhere near the same publicity.

  2. Jarl, I agree generally with the middle eastern based religions..Christianity, Judaism and Muslim and all coming from the same Old Testament background.

    But how do other religions view women? I can’t find much in this regard, but I suspect that the traditions are very similar.

    Therefore it’s not much to do with religion, but all about power and control and if there is a religion to back you up even better.

  3. “Under Athenian law it was required that a woman be under the control and assumed protection of a male guardian or kyrios, firstly meaning her father or other adult male relative. Therefore although Greek women might be permitted to own money or property, the control of this property belonged to the male and he was free to dispose of this in any way that he wished”

    Min, do not realise that up to the middle of last century, the situation remanded the same.

    Even today, brides walk proudly up the aisle, on the arm of their father, to be handed over to the man standing at the altar, to become his wife.

    None see the irony in this.

    As an young adult, there was little I could do without the authority of my father, and later my husband.

    There were jobs that one lost. if one married.

    Young women today do not realise what life was like a short fifty years ago,

    Mr. Bolt does not understand what the difference is between Ms. Greer talking about the PM backside and the Opposition leader.

    Ms. Greer has made her life work being a shock hock. Mr. Abbott aspires to be PM. This is not behaviour one expects from the alleged future leader of the country.

    Just heard a rerun of the interview with Karl. Mr. Abbott said he regretted making the statement. He was asked if he was sorry. He refuse to say he was. Rambled on, saying he should not have made the comment. No, he is not sorry.

  4. In 1968, I was looking at buying a house. The agents would not show them to me, unless a male was present. The same went for the rental market.

  5. Cu, also..remember the days of nursing bursaries and teachers studentships. These are equivalent of today’s university degrees, but in those days you got paid to study nursing or become a teacher.

    I got into an Arts Degree at Melbourne uni, but my parents could not afford for me to go, and so I studied teaching instead.

    Actually, it’s not a bad system when you think of it – we have a skills shortage for both nurses and teachers..why not pay for people to study these as they once used to.

    However, the rules were quite strict – if you married while studying, then you had to quit and pay back all the money. Needless to say there were many student teachers living in sin in those days..that’s about your time, the late ’60s.

    Of course the above rule applied only to women.

  6. What about the belief that once a woman had a child, her working life was over.

    It was the role of a woman to create a home for her family, support her husband and tend to the children.

    Society strongly condemn the woman who attempted to work outside of this reality. She was letting her husband and child down.

    Now there was an exception to the belief that children needed mum home 24/7.

    If a woman was deserted or widowed, the children did not need that 24/7 support. This woman was expected either to put her children in care or find some way of earning an income.

    A double standard, but this was not unusual when it came to how society perceived woman and their rights. It was simple, they had none.

  7. Min,
    Top post…excellent timing.

    I remember my Mum telling me she was forced to leave her bank post because she got married…this was in the UK.

    When she fled her abusive alcoholic husband apparently she was forced by an old male judge to pay for heaps because she was accused of having an affair…even tho I know the boarder who took us away was not in a relationship with her at the time…rather was heading off to Brisbane so was a good way to escape.

    My wife was the first in her family to go to uni…she’s now a HOD of science…and maths…

    yes science…what used to be considered the male preserve.

    We do not have children. Amazingly not one of her family has ever made an issue of this…

    nor referred to her as being “baron”.

    Things have come a long way…more to go tho.

    N’

  8. Cu, I remember going for a loan to buy a block of land in Mt. Evelyn and the bank manager asked, When are you planning to start a family. I wasn’t married, and at the time was hopeful that it wouldn’t be the following weekend at the drive-in.

  9. “Actually, it’s not a bad system when you think of it – we have a skills shortage for both nurses and teachers..why not pay for people to study these as they once used to.”

    Min, there is a good reason this system will not work today.

    Nursing once was not much more than keeping the patient comfortable and following the directions of the male doctor.

    Today, nursing is much more. Greater knowledge and skills needed are much greater. Maybe the name needs to be changed from that of a nurse.

    Nursing is much more that washing one down, making the bed and taking the temperature.

    We would not get far in teaching with six months training.

  10. Cu, I’ll have to disagree with you on that one. My grandmother Lucas trained to be a nurse at Guy’s Hospital, London. That is over a century ago and she often knew more than the doctors did.

    If anyone in the Tungamah or Yarrawonga area ever had a broken bone, had a fever or had a baby until the mid 1940’s then..that was my grandmother who tended to you.

  11. Min, they have always knew more that the doctor did.

    What I mean, the necessary knowledge is too great to learn while working full time.

    It is a profession, and should be treated as all other professions.

  12. Last century, we had Bush Nurse in many country towns, visited by the flying doctor once a week. These women dealt with all medical emergencies. Delivering the baby, setting the broken arm and sewing on the odd ear, after the local football game.

    My mother was very ill at the time. An illness that came and went.

    An illness that the doctors could not find. They accuse her of faking it. An illness in their eyes that did not exist.

    It was the bush nurse that demanded the Lake Cargelligo Hospital x-ray her spine, They refused, saying it was waste of time.

    This wonderful lady stood her ground. The doctor would not let my mother move. Sent out for timber to build what I believe was a Bedford Frame. She was transported to Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney, where she spent eight months on her back.

    Eight vertebrates in the middle of the spine were eaten away by TB.

    Yes, she refused operation, had two children and walked until her death in her early fifties. It was heart disease that beat her.

    Yes, Min, nurses often knew more but were never given credit for it.

    Look at the number of people crippled by polio, until a nurse told and proved to the doctors, they had it wrong.

  13. As Nasking said Things have come a long way…more to go tho.

    SA Liberal Michael Pengilly never improves…

    Pengilly’s future in party hands
    http://www.theislanderonline.com.au/news/local/news/general/pengillys-future-in-party-hands/2378231.aspx

    Opposition Leader Isobel Redmond does not believe the campaign against Member for Finniss Michael Pengilly has been engineered from within the Liberal Party.
    Ms Redmond said on Tuesday she doubted that party sources had fuelled the wide-ranging media reports and speculation that grew after Mr Pengilly called the Prime Minister “a real dog” on Twitter last Thursday.

    Mr Pengilly tweeted the comment to editor of online news site The Punch, David Penberthy, in relation to the resignation of Harry Jenkins from the Speaker’s position in Federal parliament.

    Shortly after the tweet, Mr Pengilly stood in State parliament to explain his “poor use of terminology”.

    “Anyone who knows me knows that I do not abuse women, hit them or anything else,” Mr Pengilly said.

    “If my comments caused offence to the Prime Minsiter, I apologise to her.”

    No ifs or buts, that was offensive and bumpkin Pengilly hasn’t improved:-

    MP Michael Pengilly ejected over ‘put her down’ comment

    http://www.news.com.au/national/mp-michael-pengilly-ejected-over-put-her-down-comment/story-e6frfkvr-1226313738591

    Michael Pengilly was sin-binned during question time on Thursday for his interjection directed at Transport Services Minister Chloe Fox.

    The minister was answering a question related to late bus services in Adelaide which prompted Mr Pengilly to interject that she “ought to be put down”.

  14. Cu, the story of Sister Kenny must be one of my favorites from Australian history.

    Sister Kenny was an outback nurse, polio (infantile paralysis) being rampant in those days, Sister Kenny often had to treat children and adults without the direction of any doctor. The prevailing treatment was to immobilise the limbs, the theory being that this would minimise the wasting of the limbs.

    Sister Kenny thought that immobilisation would only make matters worse, instead she treated people with hot compresses and passive exercises. She was called a quack, both in Australia and the UK and the USA and her methods were fiercelessly fought against by all medical practioner organisations.

    Prior to Sister Kenny alternative therapies had been tried, the notable one being Franklin Roosevelt and “Warm Springs”.

  15. Why el gordo. What the man has to say is rubbish. Why not a link.

    What he thinks is of little consequences. It makes one wonder what is going on in the fund he has just left.

    A man that sees nothing wrong in investing in Tobacco companies.

    A man who is a CC denialists.

    A man who was placed in his previous job by Mr. Costello.

    Yes, his opinion carries much weight.

  16. el gordo, I am sure Murray will get full attention of the media. I am sure the negatives about the man, will not see the light of day.

    Min, I believe that Sister Kenny did not get the respect she deserved.

    She was ridiculed by the experts, that is male doctors.

    Treatment of polio was another truth, that was changed when new facts were discovered.

    There were hundreds of nurses across the country that carried out worthwhile work. Yes, Sister Kenny was one of many.

  17. The electorate will see Murray as a very rational man and believe him, no matter what Milne says.

  18. Even tho I think the carbon price should be lowered…to between 8-15 dollars…I reckon that David Murray’s comments come across revengeful…petulant and petty at best.

    He looked very stressed and irritable on television.

    Not the ideal way to present a view.

    I think many will recognise his motives.

    N’

  19. Pip wrote: No ifs or buts, that was offensive and bumpkin Pengilly hasn’t improved
    MP Michael Pengilly ejected over ‘put her down’ comment

    Agree Pip…seems to be apattern of behaviour.

    It all adds up to an underlying disrespect for women in power.
    Seems to be a problem in the Coalition ranks…

    One they need to stamp out.

    No more of this nudge nudge wink wink stuff.

    Garnering votes from the cavemen set is like trying to appeal to cultists…after awhile it leaves you with a noticeable rash that is quite off-putting to the healthier public.

    Need to be two steps forward…no steps back.

    Abbott might think he’s getting the ocker, women stereotyping hubbies on side…but they don’t always sit in the pub, hotels sculling a beer moaning….many go home to their wives…who they respect…even if it’s begrudging…and as younger men they’d have put another man on his arse if he’d spoken about their wives or daughters like that in public.

    I don’t think Abbott is getting much respect for his dopey, rude comments directed at the Prime Minister.

    Noone in their right mind wants the pub idiot running their country.

    N’

  20. I believe that women today are expected to be both, the Grecian and the Spartan models of the ideal woman. The solution by governments is to offer child care places when this has been shown to be the inferior option, neither good for parents nor the child.

    It is no wonder that women are stressed, being expected to be both and knowing that they are not succeeding at either.

  21. Good interview on detention on ABC24. Release of the Senate enquiry. Looks like ASIO might have to give reason for knocking people back. Not before time.

  22. Noone in their right mind wants the pub idiot running their country.”

    What is worrying, that this is what Mr. Abbott thinks the ordinary want to hear and are about.

    He has no comprehension of what most of us are about.

    I suspect he has no idea of how anyone outside his small circle lives.

    I know one thing for sure, the majority are not found in pubs.

  23. Scott Morrison is coming on soon to reply for the Detention report handed down today.

    It seems to be a very good report, which one hopes will bring changes.

    Can make a guess as to what he has to say.

  24. Aside from cultural oppression, which should be opposed, we as human beings cannot help expressing grief. What I observe that at least is that I do not freely express simultaneously grief and love, which (and I may be wrong) tends to be gender-specific. Now if this applied generally, it would suggest that social conditioning allows females to be freer, and more human, than males. Then again gender constructs may be socially useful, however that might work in practice.

  25. wmmbb, perhaps it is that while females are freer to express emotions and males are repressed, that when females do express emotions they are condemned for this.

    Consider an office scenario, a woman bursts into tears/the man thumps the table. Equally appropriate responses to stress.

    One is considered a sign of weakness, the other a sign of strength.

  26. Sue, the problem is that there was not many women put up in the election.

    The number is probably represents the number of MPs.

  27. Sue, a typical ratio for all conservatives. Perhaps it’s just that feisty intelligent women are not attracted to right wing political parties…

  28. Min, going on the calibre of the women the Federal Government you could be correct.

    It is frightening, considering they are only selected on merited, over the men, the calibre of those in the Coalition.

    I can only say that the men available, it this is true, must be dreadful.

    I am glad that Labor sticks to the quota system. Seems to discover some worthwhile talent.

  29. Min and CU,
    considering Abbott oft acts like “the pub idiot” it’s odd he drinks so little…

    That’s even more worrying.

    No excuse.

    N’

  30. Pip, that may not be true. Remember the important vote he slept through after along dinner. Probably to mean to but his own.

  31. Cu, yes it’s all in the jacket isn’t it. Clearly the PM should be immediately be ousted because of her fashion sense.

    Lose the jacket Julia, or there will be blood in the streets of Malvern, Potts Point and The Grange.

  32. “We accept the science of climate change and we accept, unlike Mr Murray, that dangerous climate change will have a dramatic impact not just on our environment but also on our economy.”

    Wayne Swan

  33. Mr Murray was my old boss for a number of years.

    Coudn’t believe what he was doing to the CBA then.

    Can’t and don’t believe what comes out of his mouth now.

    He has no experience or expertise in the field of climate change that I am aware of.

    He simply looks at dollars and cents for everything.

    He is on a pension worth a fortune for the rest of his life from the CBA for closing branches and sacking staff. He left the Bank with a multitude of shares worth many millions of dollars.

  34. From the yourdemocracy link

    Mr Abbott has now apologised for his comments

    I shouldn’t have said it and I regret it

    My understanding of an apology was it made towards someone, not ‘regrets’ about oneself.

  35. Shane, I am not surprise at what you say. One only had to listen to the man. It was probably to him this morning. Probably angry that his mate did not get the job.

    It will be interesting to see where the FF goes now.

    I sickens one to hear all day that Mr.Abbott mucked up what should have been a good day.
    It was suggested the Mr. Murray was a good support for the coalition. All I heard was a denialists voicing his anger. Nothing else.

    Mr. Abbott mucked up nothing, just made a fool of himself. Nothing new there.

  36. Took him long enough to do it. Mr. Turnbull must have another word in his ear, as he did in QT.

  37. Here is a positive statement along with a positive attitude. What a nice change.

    “Carr wants to put ‘human’ back into human services
    Senator Kim Carr has used his first speech as Minister for Human Services to criticise some of the bureaucratic language used to describe people seeking benefits.

    Senator Carr says he thinks Medicare and Centrelink need to scrap terms like “customers” and “clients” when describing people who have no choice but to deal with the agencies.
    The focus here is dealing with citizens, with all the rights and responsibilities that that concept brings with it, so that we ensure that people are treated with respect and dignity and we ensure that we focus upon meeting real human needs quickly and in a sensitive way.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-30/kim-carr-wants-to-put-human-back-into-human-services/3923418

  38. And the best bit is the conclusion of the article.
    “He also criticised shock jocks for inflaming the debate about people who get welfare benefits from the Government.

    “I think there has been an intention in some quarters to look to the shock and horror of people that actually make claims on government as if there is something illegitimate or improper,” he said.

    “I take the view that people are able to approach government on the basis of what this Government is doing to help them deal with what are acute economic circumstances for many families.

    “People have a right to expect the Government will be there with them, standing shoulder to shoulder with them.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-30/kim-carr-wants-to-put-human-back-into-human-services/3923418

    What a great attitude. Thank you Kim Carr.

  39. I have my own ideas about Abbott’s apology!

    “Julia Gillard’s got a big arse!”
    Said Germaine, with a lack of class.
    The media couldn’t let that pass!
    Had women’s lib become a farce?

    Asking around, as per habit,
    They got the nod from Tony Abbott,
    Who didn’t stop to think a bit
    What someone else might make of it.

    He’d forgot the enormous frame
    Of Gina Rinehart whose nickname,
    The big Australian, only came
    To mind too late to him. Oh, the shame!

    Her fortune being so gigantic
    He’d become quite sycophantic;
    Talked to her in terms romantic
    Which, now recalled, sent him quite frantic.

    He took little time to agonise
    But hurried out to apologise
    And tell a load of PR lies,
    Cos something else had made him wise.

    He’s been told, Labor love their leader,
    Big arse and all, and they heed her.
    But his team are grumbling. “Do they need a
    Big arse like him for leader?”

    Working on the title, some illustration and that last verse. Any ideas? I’ll let you know when I publish it on polliepomes!

  40. Patricia, I believe he only retracted what he said in parliament after Mr. Turnbull counsel him. Well I believe Mr. Turnbull did, as he was sighted kneeling beside Mr. Abbott just after he made the statement. I have never seen Mr. Turnbull speak to him before. In fact the two hardly make eye contact.

    This morning, with the interview with Karl, he said he regretted what he said. Karl insisted on ask his if he was sorry. Mr. Abbott skirted around the question, refusing to use the word sorry.

    He did this with the usual smirk on his face.

    I would love to know who counselled him today, as I believe he has come out and said sorry.

    This man has no insight into how his words can hurt them around him. He is clueless,

    Mr. Bolt cannot see why Germaine can get away with the statement, but Mr. Abbott cannot. Germaine is nor aspiring to be PM. Also it is catty remark, which an aspiring PM should be above,

    I believe that his actions today have hurt him for once. This is one he is not going to be forgiven for.

    Maybe because too many women have

    As for a title, none come to mind.

    I can see the PM reply if she heard him say what he did.

    It would be along the line of; ” Yes, Tony I do indeed, now lets get on with the important tasks at hand”. Said with that lovely smile, we sometimes see.

    Maybe something along the lone “Now Now Tony, that is not wise.

  41. Sue. surely it is not hard for departments to treat one as humans and with

    If we are not going to be called customers or clients, what are we to be called.

    When I worked for DOCs, this come up often. I cannot recall a suitable term ever being put forwarded.

    Personally as long as it is not “love”, I really do not care.

  42. Patricia, brilliant as always! Excellent point too, would Tony Abbott have a wise crack about Gina’s size..not on your life!!

    Greer is clearly not completely with it these days – the Queen of Australian Feminism? And the only thing she has to say is a remark about the PM’s derrier, hardly a progressive attitude.

  43. there is a good new nanny song in crabbs article on the drum
    ” Tax cuts for tycoons and cash for their nannies,

    Tough luck for poor folk and drowning Afghanis,

    Great big pay packages tied up with string,

    These are a few of Tone’s favourite things…

    Tony loves rich folk and it’s gonna get worse,

    Taxpayer funding for chauffeur and wetnurse,

    Rebates for nose jobs and plenty of bling,

    These are a few of Tone’s favourite things…

    Paid parent leave schemes that look like Rolls Royces,

    Workplace reforms that look just like WorkChoices,

    Big business dances so Abbott can sing,

    Cause these are a few of his favourite things…”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-30/crabb-labor-choices-in-nanny-debate/3922830

    Her article is all about herself and why labor would at another time adopt the policy. It is about annabelle as it follows on from her appearance on the Drum News 24, where she used her own situation as an example.

    The conversion of Annabelle to needing the public purse for lifestyle choices.
    Annabelle moved to the ABC, then immediately took maternity leave. She now works from her home in Sydney but is called upon to work at the studio , if it were live, a little later in the day. Her work probably calls for unorthodox hours but for Annabelle the pay packet is probably commensurate with the unorthodoxy. Next time you negotiate your salary Annabelle, take into account the cost of personal nannies and the ABC can consider your real worth to public debate.

  44. Sue, from your article…

    But any working mother who has ever struggled, and juggled, and failed to get her kids into one of Ms Ellis’ child care centres, and plugged the gap with an agency nanny, or pitched in with friends because they don’t have any family around to help out, would find those remarks pretty hard to swallow.

    I can’t see how it’s Ms Ellis’ child care centres..aren’t most of them private, for profit organisations but with a few Council run ones.

  45. The last paragraph is the whole point – Abbott cannot deliver without making cuts to that which already exists, therefore presumably taking away from poorer mothers to donate to the wealthy.

    TONY Abbott’s idea of extending the childcare rebate to nannies would cost about $500 million a year, according to calculations by the federal bureaucracy.

    Mr Abbott sparked a national debate when he promised that, if elected, he would ask the Productivity Commission to examine how to make childcare more flexible, including whether the 50 per cent childcare rebate could be applied to nannies.

    The Coalition leader stressed the move would have to be paid for ”within the existing funding envelope” – that is, the $3 billion a year the government already pays out in childcare benefits and rebates.
    Advertisement: Story continues below

    But according to an analysis by the departments of education and finance, obtained by The Age, the extension would cost an additional $1.975 billion over its first four years – prompting the government to claim Mr Abbott could only afford it with cuts to families’ existing childcare payments.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/nanny-rebate-500m-cost-20120330-1w3tp.html#ixzz1qdY1VYDE

  46. There is no need to be alarmed but you should know that sea level has been trending down for a few years.

    They get the data from the highly reliable envisat.

  47. That link gave me a graph that any denilati could have scribbled. For that matter my 9 year old niece could have drawn it.

    No commentary, no explanation, no research , no proof, no credibility.

  48. This really makes my blood boil

    Public schools struggle to attract male teachers as non-government sector scores more men
    ……
    Better pay attracting men to private education

    http://www.news.com.au/national/public-schools-struggle-to-attract-male-teachers-as-non-government-sector-scores-more-men/story-e6frfkvr-1226314953736

    One of the main reasons I HATE subsidising private schools. They are in direct competition with public schools for resources, and so actually lower the quality of public schooling through the uneven playing field that results from a system that restricts public schools, and rewards private ones, who are able to operate under different rules to those imposed on public schools, all with out money.

  49. Now I realise that late last night I posted the Kim Carr article in the wrong thread. I meant to post it in Open, however there is no excuse for E G, who only ever wants to derail, so as usual i will just skim and walk on by.

  50. re the Kim Carr article Sue, it is about time this was raised. It needs to be re-inforced that these departments are in fact dealing with peoples lives, and not just ‘clients’

    It is a delibitating experience to go there in the first place, even more so when you realise that you are often nothing more than tick on their individual performance targets. The outcome is not measured, the process is.

  51. There is another afr article by neil chenoweth, which made me think about the perverse stranglehold of news ltd across our political landscape.
    The attack against out PM, the “liar” tag that permeates every article, yet Howard was allowed “non core”. Abbott is allowed “oh don’t believe any thing I say unless it is written down” yet day after day another “thought bubble ” is uncontested.
    And now we are with the constant female attacks, “women are not allowed to lie”, “women who lie never regain trust”.
    The “looks” ear lobes, hair style, big bums.

    The flip side, is killing a story that outs a female Liberal. The latest Julie Bishop and Huawei, came and went so quickly if you blinked you wouldn’t know the double standard.
    Mary Jo, did the Alp ask for 2nd opinions? Has she possibly just “got her period / menopausal” Were either of these possible reasons for her shoplifting up for discussion across all media outlets. Well hopefully they never were or will but you do wonder if Mary jo had been ALP, then the story would have been different.

  52. There were some posters hypothesising over at pollbludger Sue, that one of the reasons for the medias unrestrained attack on the PM may be partly due to the fact that she does not court journalists like the other politicians apparently do.

    We heard a lot about it in regards to Rudd, and it is well known the tabot does it too (just not as blatantly advertised by the media as they did with Rudd)

    Around the recent Rudd challenge also, there were claims that these journos often had an unwritten lawa with pollies, “feed us leaks, or get bad press”

    Well, Gillard has pretty much proven she does not play that game, and, a quick look at the war the journos have waged against her, and the lies they have peddled, well… 😉

  53. The latest Julie Bishop and Huawei

    I must have missed that one Sue. Are you able to elaborate?

    I thought Downer was the one with his meat in that pie.

  54. Tom @8.45am..that’s been the same for a very long time. Male teachers, especially in the lower grades have always been a scarce commodity. For example, when I trained out of a group of 30 students only 3 were men and this is in spite of being paid to train.

    In the public sector, at least in those days, you basically had to go where you were sent, especially for the less experienced teachers. Therefore for family men who didn’t want to be moved from one small country town to another, the choice was clear – apply for a job in the private school sector.

  55. Not the first time she has posted it. No explanation whatever.

    el gordo , such things need to be put in context. What is the context of that.picture of wriggly lines.

    What has it to do about woman.

  56. True Min, it has been a long ongoing problem. And enabling private schools to further upset th inbalance isn’t helping it, it is aggravating it.

  57. I know a child care worker who was tired of working in a centre and took up the offer to work for herself as a nanny. 3 friends decided that it would be cheaper to hire a nanny then to go to a centre. it wasn’t long before the rules started to change, such as

    my child has a slight temperature but you can manage and i cannot stay home and the other mothers don’t mind

    i will be a bit late last minute meeting and well i said there wouldn’t be a problem

    we friends thought we would catch a coffee first to unwind

    do you think you would like some overtime tonight so me and my husband can have a nice meal together

    End of year, nanny did not renew contract, the money wasn’t that much better , but the manipulation to the contract was unattractive.

  58. Kids get more from well run centres, than being fed and kept clean.

    They get a good basis for learning and other social skills before starting school.

    I wonder what the would get from a nanny that is as worthwhile.

  59. Those wriggly lines are abstract representations of women</i.

    lol

    Does that mean the Hockey Stick is the AGW version of this 😯


  60. Well Sue, one could say your comment is important to women, el gordo’s I fail to see the connection..

  61. Tom R @ 9.29
    Julie Bishop and Andrew Robb were both guest of Huawei with trips to China. Bishop also received a “gift” ( a gift on the register of gifts) of a tablet.
    Now we have all read the stories on gifts with bugs, so that is one issue, has it been used in Parliament House, is another.
    The big thing for me is compare Bishop with Fitzgibbon, Fitzgibbon lost a ministry about possible Chines connections, Bishop well who knows?
    Andrew Robb who has been outspoken on Huawei travelled with his staffer, i forget his name, as guests, accommodation, flights, food etc from Hong Kong to Huawei headquarets in China. How many shadow ministers have their staffers costs met? If the staffer got a gift does it need to be declared? Just asking? Could be national security issues.

    And Huawei pays for Coalition MPs when the coalition wants to sell off the NBN? What is the Cost Benefit Analysis of those trips?

  62. Actually, even though there are some parents who don’t like it, children who spend excessive time in day care are way behind when they start school. The reason for this is that the prime time for language development is around 2yrs of age. A child at home with a parent learns on a 1:1 basis, and learns adult language.

    The child in day care is not receiving 1:1 or only minimally, plus learning language from other children their own approximate age.

    Children who have spent a lot of time in day care are also more aggressive when they get to school. Although highly trained staff do encourage things such as sharing toys, it is often dog-eat-dog out there in the sandpit. Therefore children learn that by pushing and shoving other children, they get the toy that they want.

  63. I had no idea this was meant as an open thread on women.

    Me neither. I had forgot this bit

    Therefore our Friday topic is: Women. It matters not a bit what the content might be, as long as it has something to do with the feminine gender.

    I blame Friday arbo 🙂

  64. The lady stays on course, as all good PMs do.

    Almost five weeks have passed since Gillard defeated him in the caucus. In her public presentation, she demonstrates her sense of relief. She is more aggressive and appears to edit herself less. Until a few months ago, Gillard’s default demeanour when dealing with the media was accommodating and sometimes giggly. No more. Now, she is abrupt and does not bother to hide her disdain for many journalists and their questions.
    Clearly, the Prime Minister is frustrated that she is not accorded more credit and perhaps more respect for her achievements: keeping a minority government together; getting her legislation through Parliament; and seeing off Rudd.
    No one could accuse Gillard of panicking in response to Labor’s utterly dire position in the opinion polls or the reality of last Saturday’s Queensland election. In fact, she could barely be accused of having much of a response. She has no intention of deviating from the path she has been following since early 2011, when the key parts of her agenda were set in stone. Her comments on Queensland have been boiler-plate stuff – Anna Bligh was a good premier, it was a bad result but it was exclusively about state issues.
    At every point, Gillard and Swan aver that the government is staying the course, sticking to its agenda, getting on with things. On Thursday, the Prime Minister was asked what assurances she could give that families would not be worse off under the May 8 budget, which will have to absorb substantial cuts. She replied: ”Well, the assurance I can give is we will take to the forthcoming budget our Labor values about managing the economy in the interests of working people and our Labor approach about supporting families.” It was a long-established line about the Australians whom the government has sought to hold up as the most important elements of its electoral base. The term ”Labor values” is attached like a bumper sticker to these pronouncements.
    The Prime Minister is, depending on your point of view, either admirably resolute or phenomenally stubborn. All of this is happening in the face of a sustained and unprecedented collapse in the ALP’s opinion poll standings.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/ruddless-labor-caught-adrift-in-troubled-waters-20120330-1w3qk.html#ixzz1qdyTzSua

  65. Thanks Sue. I missed that about Bishop . Some things disappear so quickly from the pages, blink, and it’s gone

    Interestingly, if it had been a Labor MP, it would have been front page for a week.

  66. There are a lot of very confused feminists out there right now. Tony Abbott, long seen by the sisterhood as Australia’s foremost manifestation that we’re all just monkeys in clothing – some more hirsute, and scantily-clad, than others- now wants to help women get back to work after childbirth.

    http://www.yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/blog

  67. “Friday on my mind: women”

    Sorry I was mislead by the title. I did not realise it was open.

  68. Cu, well it most definitely wasn’t about climate change..we do have an Open Thread for that.

    If other things come up, clearly I’m not too fussed..but boring reruns of the same thing and interjecting during other conversations is not something which I would prefer.

  69. Min, so have I. Sadly on myself.

    That is one thing that seems to improve with age. It drops out of sight altogether.

    It is also the last thing to go when one diets. Exercise does not seem to have much effect.

    Sadly it is the way dome of us are made.

    Does not seem to have much to do with ability or brain power.

    If I was the PM, I would have gone down the path of Vanstone or Wong.

    A few simple blouses or tops and tailored trousers for all occasions.

    Bligh and the previous NZ PM did this.

    Would save a lot of time worrying about what to wear. People would have got use to the image and left her alone.

    It is the same as a man turning up in a suit each day.

  70. Cu @9.55am..

    The Prime Minister is, depending on your point of view, either admirably resolute or phenomenally stubborn.

    Stubborness doesn’t achieve anything, however being resolute does. As the PM is getting the job done..it means that she is admirably resolute. A pity that the media give her zilch credit, but instead want to concentrate on her jackets and the size of her bum.

  71. Does not seem to have much to do with ability or brain power.

    although, apparently, tight budgie smugglers lends to brains farting.

  72. My blog etiquette booklet says you can’t have an open thread on a particular subject.

    Women are highly complex creatures in comparison with homo sapien males and I think its fair to say the latter would have little to do with the former if not for sex.

  73. el gordo, it is Migs site. It is his etiquette book that counts.

    Do you tell those on other sites how they should be run.

    I do not think the site is here for your benefit alone.

    If I am not happy with the way a site is run, I no longer visit.
    I have to run now. See you all later.

  74. Min. it appears we have the partner today.

    Yes, sadly many men are only good for sex. it is shame so many perform badly.

    We are lucky on this site to attract so many competent men. They can be hard to find.

  75. Yes indeed Cu, good men are hard to find.

    And yes again correct Cu, this is Migs’ site and we run the blog by rules. Migs’ rules are flexible which compares with many other blogs which don’t permit any “off topic” conversations whatsoever.

    However, we do have a number of Tabs at the top of the page and the subject of Climate Change could easily be slotted into these.

    I am not hugely fussed about Off Topic because that’s what communication is all about, allowing a certain flexibility to allow people the opportunity to say what they want, when they want. However..yet another link to a climate denialist site does get a bit tedious.

  76. Speaking of women … why is it that I know more dominated husbands than wives (I know some male dominated wives too) …

    … but these days it seems to be … shall we say … reversed … to when I was growing up … (to the point that eventally, I threatened to do some very nasty things to my old man if he ever hit my Mum again!) …

    Both my grandfathers were dominated …

    Personally I prefer a team approach … win or lose together …

    Both genders have strengths and weaknesses … the trick is to recognise, reinforce and support one another …

    As I commented at, “The Farnham Report” … discussing a similar subject … feminism needed the help of men to really get off the ground …

    As an example … in my last job – OH&S Manager , (before I started my own business) … when I joined the company, I had a clerk who thought she should have got it instead of me – (” … she’d been in OH&S almost two years y’know!”) … … by the time I left, I had trained her and sent her to a Diploma course (and others) and groomed her for my spot … I encouraged her to go to uni … a bit difficult for a single mum with two kids … she eventually graduated and sent “me” a thank you email … she has operated her own consultancy for a number of years now … I last met her at Weipa on the mine site … my last job before I retired …

    I had one other female protege … but I won’t bore you …

    Yep, times have changed so why harp on about the past? Celebrate the present … hope for the future …

  77. TB and why is it that I know more dominated husbands than wives (I know some male dominated wives too) …

    Just putting on my psychology hat for a moment, men generally go in for physical abuse which doesn’t discount the amount of psychological abuse which can be prevalent.

    Women in the vast majority go for psychological abuse and the devastating effect on men should never be discounted.

    When it’s a matter of psychological abuse, men tend to cope less well as being a hen pecked husband is demeaning.

    I was only the 3rd Shire Councillor elected to the Shire of Lilydale in it’s then 103 year history, so I certainly know what the old boys/public bar is like. Deathly silence when a woman walks into the room.

    This is a generalisation and of course people are different but men generally do better at logic thought processes and women better at intuition. And again it depends on the individual. Logically women should be better at personnel, but I’ve know some dreadful ones..the typical office bitch. Perhaps the reason that men do better, they treat things logically.

  78. Min, yes to most of that but HR has a pretty bad name around many (particularly medium sized) businesses … there’s a few reasons for that here’s just a couple:

    a) Female dominance with little line management experience

    b) Managers who are not trained in management but promoted via Peters’ Principle
    c) Quite a few 20-30 something female managers who try too hard to be tough … a good manager facilitates a work team doesn’t order it about …

    d) Male managers tend to recognise skills, knowledge, ability and experience in employees … many females try to demonstrate their superior knowledge …

    I do confess that many male managers have the same issues as above — just seems more prevalent in women for a smaller %age in mangement … putting on my psychologists hat (I studied applied psychology) it generally relates to esteem issues in the manager …

    I found the big mining companies had particularly efficient and effective HR Depts. nice mix of gender and skills ..

    HR is an advisory profession and often usurps the line managers’ roles particularly in hiring and firing … having said that many managers allow it to happen because they don’t know how to hire and fire anyway …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Way off topic but I thought you might like to see the treasure clues for tomorrow’s, Treasure Hunt … daughter travels to NZ next week so we are having an early Easter … this year we decided to substitute 50 $1 coins for easter eggs … (for those who don’t know The Minister and I have five grandkids we all live in the same street) …

    Take your team to the south, from the white, night light
    Seek solar power and the plate that collects and see within for message and sight
    ——————————————————————————————————
    To the North … and the lake that’s smaller than one
    You’ll find a faery … but not the white one
    ‘Neath the faeries feet a message resides …
    And if you lucky a golden prize!
    ——————————————————————————————————
    The arches of marble will provide a short tome
    That will lead further towards your home …
    Seek in the centre ‘ere you should roam …
    —————————————————————————————————–
    The beacons of steel carry message and treasure
    But follow each one if you seek a large measure
    —————————————————————————————————–
    Bent fruit of the tree is sweet and delightful
    But seek near the roots for a sign that’s insightful
    ——————————————————————————————————
    Good treasure is buried just so deep
    So you’ll need a trowel from Grandma’s Keep
    Betwixt beacon and bath and blackest of spray
    ‘Tis where the goldest of coins will lay …

    Bit of explanation …

    Our house faces directly South and all the kids know this …

    The white night light is a white Chinese lantern …

    We have solar security lights with a small solar panels one near the side gate facing South …

    We have two ponds connected by watefall one obviously larger than the other … 😯 The Minister has a couple of fairies around the pond …

    The arches of marble are in a semicircular three (and arches) piece seat …

    Arches of steel = our four stainless steel garden torches …

    Bent fruit is banana trees …

    Grandma’s Keep is her garden shed … (we have one each!)

    The final “treasure” about thirty bucks will be buried between the tirangulation of a torch, the bird bath and a garden spray ( “blackest of sprays”)

    (The pièce de résistance … Grandma has a metal detector!

  79. TB and I do confess that many male managers have the same issues as above — just seems more prevalent in women for a smaller %age in mangement …

    Or perhaps more noticeable in females due the fact that those who reach management level are a rarity. Due to being noticed, they therefore come under more scrutiny.

    I have always found that the best jobs have been where there is gender balance – but not one where there was a hierarchy, the men at the top of the management line, and the females at the “tea lady” level.

    However, I can honestly state that during my working life that the worst bosses have been women. I prefer to work with men as they’re far more straight forward. I have problems with the office bitch types..not that these are always women.

  80. TB, an early Happy Easter to the Minister. Is she still working her way through those 20 bottles of nailpolish you bought her. 😉

  81. This one must have somehow missed the editor’s desk!!

    The real Julia fan club
    by: NIKKI GEMMELL
    From: The Australian March 31, 2012

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/the-real-julia-fan-club/story-e6frg8h6-1226313688921

    It felt something like blasphemy.
    A declaration as risky, difficult and defining as an admission to church-going, or loving a book you wouldn’t be caught dead reading on a train but have secretly downloaded on your e-reader. Just three simple words, setting off a little explosion of shock within the collected school gate psyche. “I adore Julia.” Dead silence.

    LOG IN

  82. Pip, you’re right..how did that one get there!! From your link…

    Among certain women there’s a jarring disconnect between what they’re thinking and the narrative they’re being fed that is “Julia”. What they see: a woman getting things done. In a man’s world. Quietly, differently, effectively. Amid the great roar of vitriol, and not flinching. They think it’s extraordinary. Because usually, as women, we flinch. It’s just too hard.

    That is my perception also. We are continuously told “everyone” hates Julia, but what is there to hate?

  83. Min, it’s a mistake…. it’s just not right to say or write anything nice, or truthful about Prime Minister Julia!

  84. What men need is something akin to the birth control pill.

    ‘With most women Dr. Hutcherson has seen in practice, she says she’s found that “if you take them off the Pill, their sex drive comes back.”

  85. El gordo, do you mean that if you take a woman off the pill then her sex drive comes back, or do you mean that if you take a woman off the pill then his sex drive comes back.

  86. Didn’t know that “the pill” had such an impact on libido, or at all …

    … oh, the irony, egg …

  87. TB Queensland,

    Are you yet to work that one out. Birds and bees time, the woman has something called hormones, the pill is a synthetic hormone. Women get randy because they’re ovulating and the pill interfers with this. Men don’t ovulate, hence the reason that we’re randy most of the time.

  88. Hello TB, I miss the GT mob….

    As I was sayin’, in post modern society women should be taken off the pill because its known to reduce libido, whereas men should be given a pill to eliminate any need of sex.

    Harmony will prevail and the battle of the sexes will end.

  89. AG … thanks for the bio lesson … but there has never been a confirming/conclusive study (mainly because there are so many variables with those pesky women …)

    … some studies have found an increase in libido while using certain products …

    eg

    Studies are mixed about whether oral contraceptives actually decrease libido in women. But a recent study of more than a thousand female medical students in Germany found that women using hormonal contraception were more likely to have sexual dysfunction than those using either no or non-hormonal contraception.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-503823_162-6480463.html

    100’s more on the interwebby thingy … but most reach a similar non-conclusion … a popular belief but still not proven emphatically … bit like egg and his CC …

    egg, might be right BTW … no-one can tell you conclusively what will happen next week … let alone in 2050 …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    egg, http://farnhamreport.wordpress.com/

  90. It’s no secret that women who take a hormonal birth control pill have less interest in sex. One theory as to why is that combination birth control pills — which contain a synthetic form of estrogen and progestin — lower the levels of circulating testosterone in the body, thus lowering women’s libidos. But a new study published in the December issue of the American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology suggests that the makeup of the Pill may not be the culprit after all.

    Not hard to find …

  91. egg, nowt’ ta do wi’ me, lad … the Blogmasta has a new model though … tread careful! 😀

  92. “Unless this party gets out of this suffocating thing we have created, I fear we might have had it,” Mr Hayden told The Weekend Australian.

    ‘He said the decline of Labor’s branches and party conferences—“manipulated by the factional barons”—were symptoms of Labor’s demise.’

    Yep, it has to be said, the ALP is so last century.

  93. El gordo, the same for the Liberals and the Nats, nobody joins political parties these days and those who do seem to be extremists.

  94. TB, all hail to testosterone.

    I dunno, Min, its hard work sometimes …

    Yep, it has to be said, the ALP is so last century.

    … and the Libs and Nats are so forward thinking … 😯

  95. Well, they are forward thinking in NSW, Vic and Qld, with their progressive views.

    I’ve never been involved with their branch structure, so don’t know how it compares to the ALP.

    Min may be correct in thinking its a universal malaise.

  96. Well, they are forward thinking in NSW, Vic and Qld,

    well I’ve got three years to find out … I’ll comment along the way …

    ++++++++++++++

    Ta, Min … 🙂

  97. Our local motorbike dealer (and owner of other businesses) wanted to go for Liberal pre-selection in the South Coast because Joanna Gash is retiring (had enough of Abbott’s lies and deceits).

    Clive is the second person to want to run for pre-selection for this Federal seat, the previous person was a successful local farmer.

    Both have pulled out because they have gotten so much vindictive attacks against them from a right wing Liberal faction who wants to parachute their own glamour puss into the seat.

    Nah, the Liberals don’t have factions and in fighting, that’s purely the domain of Labor.

    Bullshit. The Liberal factions are as bad if not worse, no make that they are worse, than Labor’s factions. The only difference is that the Liberals keep their dirty laundry in dark recesses and the media helps by not reporting their pettiness and nastiness.

  98. Mobius, I always remember that you have been a huge Joanna Gash fan. I’m a bit the same about Don Page (Nat). The work that Don put it for getting assistance for kids with disabilities, was outstanding. I even voted for him..once… 😉

  99. the same for the Liberals and the Nats

    ssshhh Min. We all know Labor are the only ones with problems. No talking about the same problems and faseless men elsewhere.

  100. TB @4.31pm..why is it that men are always trying to work out why women aren’t interested in having sex. Here’s a hint..dinner, candlelight, ambience. Females are sensory..and that’s the last clue that I’m giving away…

  101. You mean a dark corner in Maccas doesn’t cut it Min?

    Damn, I’m going to have to change my tact, maybe a dark corner in Hungry Jacks, she would have to appreciate that the burgers are better at Hungry Jacks.

    I’ve also found a candlelight app, so that should make Hungry Jacks even more romantic.

  102. We now have a second female journo, Mischa Schubert, supporting the nanny idea, well supporting it as going to the Productivity Commission?

    Now I thought I read how Howard did get the Productivity Commission to have a look. Here’s an idea Annabelle and Mischa could do some investigative journalism?
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/explainer-why-subsidising-nannies-is-complicated-20120331-1w5qg.html

    Meanwhile Mischa and Annabelle have you just been suckered?

    “Seizing on comments in The Sydney Morning Herald yesterday by an anonymous Liberal MP that ”no one really thinks we are going to do it … it’s just part of the appeal to women”, Ms Gillard said Mr Abbott’s stipulation that he would consider nanny subsidies only at no extra cost for taxpayers was ”dripping with cynicism’

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-nanny-plan-aims-at-suckering-women-20120331-1w5bs.html#ixzz1qjR5ks3q

    Now Mischa as you wrote this article the “anonymous Liberal MP” wouldn’t be anonymous to you. So who do you believe Abbott or Anonymous Liberal or are they one and the same?

  103. ‘Here’s a hint..dinner, candlelight, ambience. Females are sensory..and that’s the last clue that I’m giving away…’

    The punters I’ve spoken to say that’s all very well, but its too contrived and rarely comes up trumps.

  104. Which reminds me where was Sophie when her mate was going on about big bums? I hope they had a chuckle together.

  105. Sue, that Mischa Schubert comes across not as a cry for help with childcare, it sounds more like a cry for help with parent care.

    Sure, being a parent is tough, but providing MORE Governmnet assistence to help people who would rather put their career ahead of their children? Perhaps they should be considering their choices better in the first place.

    I have a career, I also spend most of my free time ‘nannying’. However, I never really considered it that, I always called it parenting.

    The fact is, their are already a vast amount of subsidised options available that pretty well cover what this pretends to. But it is on a needs basis, not a wants.

    I find it interesting that, considering the amount of times the media replay their own ‘Carbon Tax’ lie, they don’t really repeat this one as often

    ”Compulsory paid maternity leave? Over this government’s dead body, frankly.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/populist-scheme-reeks-of-hypocrisy-20120309-1upq7.html#ixzz1qjcpSJP4

  106. Mobius @5.44am and You mean a dark corner in Maccas doesn’t cut it Min?

    Damn, I’m going to have to change my tact..

    Mobius, you make up for it by charm and alure..

  107. Can this woman ever win.

    THE Prime Minister shouldn’t do so much media. She is devaluing her brand and being distracted from her core responsibility – running the country.

    Few journalists will thank me for this free advice to the PM. And as a host of a Sunday morning television show on Sky News – making regular requests to the PM’s office for her to appear on the program – it’s hardly in my best interests to provide the free advice either.

    But Julia Gillard is far too accessible to the media for the leader of a country. Less is more sometimes. She would be better off making it a privilege to interview her, instead of doing daily doorstops to comment on anything being debated at the time.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-pm-needs-to-shut-up-before-well-listen-to-her-writes-peter-van-onselen/story-e6frezz0-1226315243661

  108. Hi haven’t checked the latest posts but I thought this was an important for a post on women: Prostitution And Money

    “THE biggest forum for sex trafficking of underage girls in the United States appears to be a website called Backpage.com.

    The owners turn out to include private equity financiers, including Goldman Sachs with a 16 per cent stake.

    Let’s be clear: this is a tiny investment by a huge company, and I have no reason to think that Goldman’s top executives knew of its connection to sex trafficking. Goldman prides itself on its work on gender: its 10,000 Women initiative does splendid work supporting women in business around the globe.

    That said, for more than six years Goldman has held a significant stake in a company notorious for ties to sex trafficking, and it sat on the company’s board for four of those years. There’s no indication that Goldman or anyone else ever used its ownership to urge Village Voice Media to drop escort ads or verify ages. Elizabeth McDougall, chief counsel for Village Voice Media, told me on Friday that she was ”unaware of any dissent” from owners.

    after so many years of girls being trafficked on this site, it’s time to hold owners accountable.

    Goldman Sachs was mortified when I began inquiring last week about its stake in America’s leading website for prostitution ads. It began working frantically to unload its shares, and on Friday afternoon it called to say that it had just signed an agreement to sell its stake to management.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/financiers-and-sex-trafficking-20120401-1w6gh.html#ixzz1qpGJOXrM

  109. Sue, as per your link anyone dealing with sex workers must consider that these girls could easily be underage or being forced to work in prostitution.

    ..so Goldman Sachs had no idea about it’s business venture. I find that difficult to believe.

  110. When asked about Burma and its political democracy, Aung Sann Suu Kyi was asked to rate Burma from 1 to 10.
    She replied moving towards 1.

  111. Min

    A good read on the PM by Phillip Coorey, here is a bit

    “She told the function: ”If you are judging by normal political rules, it’s impossible to explain how I became Prime Minister.

    ”It’s impossible to explain how we got through the 2010 election campaign with all the leaking.

    ”Then I formed a government relying on two conservative country independents.

    ”And it’s impossible to explain how a minority government did the big blockbuster reforms.”

    Gillard’s mission was to deliberately challenge the audience to consider that all she had done so far defied expectation, so it should not automatically extrapolate what happened in Queensland to the federal sphere.

    ”You can’t explain, so don’t use the [normal rules] to predict the future.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/gillard-has-faith-in-poll-resurrection-20120401-1w6b7.html#ixzz1qpTrEXEk

  112. Sue and..

    Gillard’s mission was to deliberately challenge the audience to consider that all she had done so far defied expectation..

    And so it has, but she has received zero recognition.

  113. but she has received zero recognition.

    One wonders if she ever will either Min

    Barrie Cassidy has an interesting post up

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-30/cassidy-labors-fate-and-carbon-tax-hindsight/3922204

    Basically, arguing about how Gilard whould have answered the journos when htey created the ‘Carbon Tax Lie’ meme.

    He has a point, to a degree. I was constantly amazed at how weakly Labor defended their position. But, at the same time, are not the media to blame for creating an impression all because a politician refuses to engage in their games. Basically, he is declaring that the media can say what they want, and unless you defend it to their satisfaction, that will become the new truth.

    I had thought the media were there to inform, not to distort.

  114. Tom, my prediction is that the msm will have their political party of choice elected..whether this will mean Abbott as PM is another matter, it will depend on how he performs in the next 6 months. Then around 6 months after the election and the msm have run all their available stories about what “a mess” the previous Labor government was, then Gillard and perhaps Rudd to will start looking good.

  115. I’m pretty sure the msm can run with blaming Labor for another ten years Min.

    howard showed them the way 😉

  116. So even die hard barrackers admit that the games up, we have an exit strategy.

    My only suggestion this far out from the election….shelve the CO2 tax immediately to avoid the party becoming a rump.

  117. Give up? not likely

    On the weekend I saw that advertisement with the Carbon Tax collector, amazingly the Carbon Tax collector harassing the little old lady, had a big bum. When was the advertisement made or were the lies portrayed in the advertisement just lucky?

    I am wondering how long it will take for the advertisement to be stopped and how heavy will be the fine? The ACCC was very aggressive at the time of the GST. I would also like the ACCC to name the real backers behind the TV campaign.

    Min

    that article by Coorey did not expose a frightened or dejected leader. it may be that a few positive articles appear.
    compare coorey to grattan, same story the nielsen poll. grattan did not mention the caution to be read into the poll as suggested by the pollster.
    for grattan it was only “poll misery” for coorey it is a”slump” but not to be taken out of context.

  118. El gordo, I wouldn’t exactly call us “barrackers” because that has an implication that we do not read carefully to assess the situation.

    “Barrackers” are the right whingers who state that Labor hasn’t got a hope in Hades. They say that a week in a long time in politics..try the year 2014.

  119. Sue, I find Julia Gillard quite amazing..nobody could withstand the constant negativity without it doing some damage to one’s self-esteem. But Julia rallies each and every time. But then she didn’t become PM by not being one hell of a gutsy lady.

    Grattan has gone to the dark side of the force. Only a year ago when reading Grattan, you would have expected some semblance of balance – or even a contra opinion.

  120. el gordo, I would rather see the PM lose the next election, than dump good policy which is the tight thing to do, and good for this great nation of ours.

    It is the PM responsibility’s to govern the country, not focus all her attention on the next election.

    The PM was given the mandate to govern by the people at the last election. It is her role to govern in the best interest of the nation.

    The PM cannot, and should not try to please everyone, that is impossible.

    The PM has passed much necessary legalisation that sets this country up for the future.

    If the voters refused to listen, that is their folly and the will wear the results.

    If so, the country will suffer.

    The PM would be rightly seen as a failure, if she back tracked on all she has achieved.

    We are going to see the self righteous screams of she is hurting families, in every cut she makes, cuts that all are demanding, when they say cut the debt.

    No notice will be made, that the cuts will all be in areas, that affect those who can afford to pay.

    There is much fat to cut, but it all to be found in the area of the big boys industry and their families.

    The richer they are, the harder they scream.

    No, el gordo, the PM needs to go on as she is, letting the future look after itself.

    There is no dishonour in doing a good job and being kicked out, if that is the will of the people.

    It only makes suspect, the wisdom or motives of the voter.

    It should not be a popularity contest, but sadly in today’s political environment, it is.

  121. Min @ 11.28am, observing Grattan’s behaviour when she’s running with the younger journalists, it seems to me that she’s trying to impress them as much as her readership.

    She simply looks foolish!

  122. el gordo, I would like to add, if the media spent more time writing about this government, instead on concentration on the make-up of the next, we would all be better off.

    There has been so much achieved so far, I do not believe history will be able to ignore the fact, that this has been a highly successful government. Unpopular, but productive.

    I would rather see the PM able to say I achieved so much, in only one term.

    I would hate her to say, I had to dump everything to ensure a second term. That would be admitting failure. It would be failure.

    It is not having the ball in the game that counts. It is how you play that ball. Hogging the ball to your chest, achieves nothing.

    Mr. Whitlam was and is seen by a failure by many. He endured two elections and last less than three years. He was pillage from poet to post.

    Much of what he legislated still stands. His was a productive government as well. his government change the lives of many, especially women for the good.

    Mr. Menzies and Mr. Howard were in power for record lenghts of time. Considering this, they achieved little.

    Mr. Hawke was also another in for a long time. Towards the end of his reign, Mr. Keating has the nous to see he was running out of stream and replaced him.

    No el gordo, winning the next election is not the main game. Making a success of the present government is were the focus needs to be.

  123. Tom, That may be. But, more importantly, how big is her arse?

    I reckon it’s a very long time since she was a size 8! Now, possibly an 18!

  124. Then how can Grattan be taken seriously if she’s a size 18, and she also wears jackets. 😉

  125. Now there’s a question Roswell, and while we’re on the subject I [think]
    I’d like to know what sized bum Germaine Greer possesses.

    Probably large, to match her mouth…

  126. Pip, one thing that does not appeal to me whatsoever are men with boney asses..a friend of mine (now sadly gone to God) had a fettish about jockey’s bums..I couldn’t relate to that one.

  127. Min, forgive me, I did not realise that. Maybe we should leave it to those who are religious.

  128. Min, I did not quite see it as an attack on men. I thought they should be given the chance to defend themselves.

  129. Example:

    Why would a married male with children, who happened to study for the priesthood make a better PM. A man who main occupation seems to be either in the surf or on a bike id better able to learn.

    Why cannot a childless woman, who lives in sin, does not believe in religion, be PM.

  130. Cu and

    Min, I did not quite see it as an attack on men. I thought they should be given the chance to defend themselves.

    In this day of equality, if a woman can be scrutinised for the size of her bum, her earlopes, her hairstyle then so should the males.

    Julia receives the eye rolling treatment for being an atheist, but where is the eye rolling treatment for Tony for being a Catholic, and a failed priest at that.

  131. Cu and Easter..I’ll put it another way, Good Friday that’s the day that the shops are closed including the hotels and bottle shops. 😉

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