Think, then speak

Communication is the transactional process of sending and receiving verbal and nonverbal messages.  The messages are interpreted and meaning is assigned.

Each communication exchange can be categorised into two settings.  Symmetrical where the participants acknowledge an equal status, or complimentary where there exists an unequal status as superior or inferior roles are conducted.  A person’s attitude and understandings often pre-determines the setting.  Think of Tony Abbott.

Further to being a transaction process, communication exchange consists of the following components:

  1. Source – the person who generates the communication.
  2. Channel – how the communication is transmitted.
  3. Message – the content of the communication.
  4. Receiver – the person/s who receive the message.

Within the above components various functions are performed such as encoding or decoding messages, and promoting or providing feedback (responses).  Good communicators are aware that competence in these functions will enhance successful communication.  Primarily these include knowing what is to be communicated; keeping the message clear; emphasising with the listener (ie transmitting in a way that is convenient for the listener); and looking for feedback.  Think of Tony Abbott.

Knowing what is to be communicated appears straightforward, yet many messages are distorted by not choosing accurate words.  A message is more likely to have a meaning and encourage a response if the key components are addressed.  The planning principle is to know what you are going to say before you say it.  Think of Tony Abbott.

Keeping the message clear is summarised as expressiveness: the ability to communicate ideas and feelings effectively.  This suggests that ability and effective communication are two separate identities.  The ability is to enter into communication without pre-conceived perceptions and without distorting the picture of the self.  What a person thinks of themself will be the image they portray.  Think of Tony Abbott.

Empathising is a clear indication that the communicator knows his or her audience.  Empathetic responses identify a person’s right to their beliefs and opinions (or any other differences) and good communicators literally place themselves in the shoes of the listener.  This enhances communication in that messages can be transmitted that are convenient for the receiver.  Think of Tony Abbott.

Fundamental to enhancing all the above communication skills is one underlying factor; communicate ethically.  Simply, speak to a person in a manner similar to how you would wish to be spoken to.

Complex factors which can impede successful communication are cultural differences and communication barriers.  Australians interact in a multi-cultural society, yet most have difficulty in exchanging conversation or appreciating the cultural differences.  The popular world wide use of our spoken language – English – contributes to this lack of understanding as locally Australians have had little need to explore new languages or partake in cultural exchange.  This ethnocentrism – judging other cultures based on one’s own cultural values – whether it be intentional or not, creates difficulty in cross cultural communication.  Think of Tony Abbott.

Communication barriers are responses whose impact on communication is frequently negative.  These barriers appear up to 90 percent of the time during conversation, and of their many forms I have selected two: diverting and advising, as these are frequently employed.  Diversion is an obstruction to impede communication by those who lack the necessary listening skills, or by those who feel uncomfortable with the topic under discussion.  Such instances can result in topic diversion.  Think of Tony Abbott.

Advising is an innocent roadblock that one gives or receives on countless occasions.  Exchanges that are intended to provide simple advice rarely ever reach the core of the problem.  From my own experiences I would agree with the suggestion that to engage in worthless advice negates competent communication.  More often than not the adviser is not an authority and this is recognised by the listener, and the listening ‘stops.’  Think of Tony Abbott.

Let’s consider the above and think about Tony Abbott.

170 comments on “Think, then speak

  1. I find Tony Abbott’s communication abilities appalling. He comes across as mostly aggressive, but with a semi-apologetic tone to his voice which reeks of insincerity. He blandly mouths the words over and over and over, and the only people who could possibly empathise with this are those being fed exactly what they want to hear.

  2. Most of what Abbott says is a kind of “code-speak” aimed directly at those who follow and ascribe to his belief systems and are looking for ways and reasons to continue to support him. Every stupid, crude, uninformed or “off the cuff” thing I hear him say is heard by someone else as ‘strong’, ‘tough talking’, ‘common sense’ or “spontaneous common sense”.

    Just one example ~ “we will turn back the boats” might seem like the greatest nonsense to anyone who has given even half a minute’s thought to it, but if (like Tony) you want to see fewer people of colour arrive without proper immigration prodding, you’ll understand that what he means is “I don’t like them and I understand that you don’t either”. It actually has nothing to do with boats or illegality or anything else, it’s about being recognisably empathetic to the particular prejudices of a certain sets of demographics.

    He isn’t talking to those he knows aren’t ever going to vote for him, not even bothering to try, he’s speaking directly to current and potential supporters.

    Soooo, from that point of view, he is actually a great communicator ~ to the audience he wants to reach.

  3. Christine, my own impression is that Tony does not give a toss about anything or anyone – he wouldn’t care if it was 20 or 20,000 boat people – people aren’t real to him, they’re just pawns in his game. That was the impression I got about him when he publicised his “virgin daughters”, it wasn’t the daughters he cared about, but the fact of their virginity – that is, the issue is what matters and not the people.

  4. Liealot mainly speaks redneck, but is very conversant in ignorant, lying and toe rag as are his devoted followers.

  5. I would prefer not to think of Tony Abbott. You are quite right, communication is a two way process involving the sending and receiving of messages. It should also involve an ethical attitude to the content and the manner in which communication is done.

    I don’t think Tony Abbott has much interest in all of that, except for winning over voters with what he says. He’s prepared to change his message, distort content, and ignore ethical standards in any way which seems necessary to achieve his goal. He was only half jokling when he told Tony Windsor he’d sell his arse!

    PS found this waiting to be binned this arvo – revived it for TPS somewhat irrelevantly. Should have come here first, before tea! Not quite on topic, nor very logical, but it let off a bit of steam for me!

    Tony Abbott’s Arse!

    Remember when it nearly came to pass
    That Labor’s fortunes turned on Abbott’s arse?
    Seems he said he’d be prepared to sell it!
    Desperate words from a religious zealot.

    I thought he had already sold his soul
    Desperately grasping for his life’s one goal.
    So this coming from him was no worse than a lie
    He could later confess to, even deny.

    Or he could shrug it off as leftie spin.
    Anyway is it really a mortal sin?
    I’ve heard lenient views from Cardinal Pell
    So there’s not much chance he’ll go to hell

    That’s really a pity, you know, because
    We would rather that fate for him, than Oz.
    What else could he have done to risk hell fires?
    Dob him in! Make damn sure that he at least retires!

  6. That skit on Insiders this morning taking the bones of what Mr. Carr said, and adding the meat.

    It added to the sense of what Mr. Carr said. that it is a type of hypnosis, or maybe brain washing.

    If one listens to what he says, it is a collection of slogans slung together, that have no connection to each other.

    When he feels that he is in danger of being cornered, he will change the slogans onto another topic. Often in mid sentence.

    It is the talk of a sly con master in my eyes. He does not address questions asked or attempt to put forwarded an argument. He just repeats another slogan, such as they’re lies or something just as stupid.

    He gets away with it, I believe because the questioner gets lost in his well practise diversions.

  7. Migs, Great post…. except at the end of every paragraph you… made a point…. its sunday…. kids in bed ( yay) etc( read:*clink*)( read: ahhh)….. and then you end it with this “Let’s consider the above and think about Tony Abbott.” I ….. dont…..want……..think…..about…….etc…. prob. have nightmares 2nite….

  8. I dunno, patricia. The pome strikes it exactly right , imo. I’ll echo Migs. I’m very glad you didn’t bin it.

    He gets away with it, I believe because the questioner gets lost in his well practise diversions.

    If the listener happens to be a member of the msm, they’re not lost, but complicit.

    Migs @11.14pm, it won’t make the hangover go away, it might cause poor LOVO to have suicidal thoughts and turn to vindaloo, cheap plonk and other anti-social behaviours!

  9.… turn to vindaloo, cheap plonk and other anti-social behaviours!……hot…hot, hot, glug, glug, glug….. PHART…. URRPPP,…. well look at that, I just gave birth to an Abbott…….. FLUSH….. and thats not my cheeks burn’n….mm !!! that anti enough….

  10. Migs, as the barista of this establishment I was wondering if you had done the appropriate RSA course….. just saying…. : )

  11. Is Warren Entsch possibly breaking the law. By not accepting a medical certificate by a GP and wanting more information about a medical diagnosis, is he breaking the law?.. Isn’t calling for more information breaking the privacy of the doctor and his patient? In any of certificates I ever had from my GP who I have had for 25 years all it ever said was “illness”. These were never challenged and why should they.
    An interesting side to this petty point scoring but what else from the party of work choices.

  12. Sue, as far as I’m aware the nature of the illness does not have to be disclosed.

    This could be open to abuse under Workchoices 2.

    I am aware that during the terror reign of Workchoices, one workplace agreement demanded that employees produce two separate medical certificates from two separate doctors for sick days claimed.

    That’s not cool.

  13. ..and that the certificate be dated the same day as the sick day, and we all know how easy it is to get to see a doctor with less than 24hrs notice.

  14. At the time I was envisaging some females having to visit the doctor once a month, no make that 2 doctors…and this is apart from people who suffer from migraines..

  15. The Doctors are not happy. They are stating privacy patient/doctor relationship. Also certificates are not specific when under diagnosis. How dare a politician question a GP.
    Also ,my thoughts, the hospital would forward information to the GP, so why question the GP.

    Petty to the extreme

  16. Sorry Mglo original post was meant to go on Open but bringing the Dr certificate back to the issue

    What is the Opposition trying to communicate?

    Tony Abbott is
    Is incantating Lazarus , Workchoices is back from being dead, buried and cremated

  17. So now the opposition are experts on the type of information that doctors should provide on medical certificates..

    Chief opposition whip Warren Entsch says Mr Thomson will be given a pair only for Monday, rather than for the whole week, because he has concerns the doctor’s certificate is too vague.

    “It says abdominal pain. It has no further information,” he told ABC radio on Monday.

  18. Sue, I think that these are all examples of how the opposition is able to use something which is not an issue..on this occasion it being quibbling about the way a doctor’s certificate is worded, whilst avoiding the real issues such as their $9BN black hole.

  19. Min

    On the radio entsch went as far to say
    “He has a tummy pain. it could be constipation?”

    thank you warren,

  20. It seems to me that Tony Abbott’s graceless remarks on the death of Margaret Whitlam are indicative of a sort of automated behaviour developed during his days at Sydney University, whereby he attracted witless second rate followers through sneerleading. His whole career is characterised by this.Thus on every possible occasion, more of the same can be expected, since it requires no effort, imagination, discipline or even consciousness.

  21. Sue, all style and class aren’t they..

    I keep thinking that there must surely be someone in the opposition who cringe at these sort of comments, but apparently not.

  22. Pilgrim, I’s just Tony’s natural “personality”..inverted commas because the term personality can be only loosely applied when describing Tony Abbott.

  23. In a righteous rage after reading these last few comments I’m thinking of what Min said at 8.42. Any future “yes, Tony was a bit nasty wasn’t he, but of course I never thought like that” should be treated with contempt. These bastards are wearing the uniform NOW!

    But Abbott is seriously FITH isn’t he. Absolutely anyone & anything’s disposable & he hopes George’s lot can find a relevant verse to say it’s OK. Who thought the Coalition could conceivably get into an argument over principles with the AMA?

  24. I can’t give details but I’m pretty sure Workchoices required people to provide sick certificates on a frequent basis.
    Which reminds me. I can’t prove this but I was listening to an ABC interview one night with a commentator critiqueing Workchoices. Current ABC listeners will deduce from the fact that a critique of the Coalition was on that this was some years ago. Anyway the commentator, who I think was a professor of industrial law, said that under Workchoices, if NON union employees took industrial action, the relevant union covering that industry & workplace could be prosecuted. That’s what I heard anyway.

  25. On the subject of communication, I do believe that Labor could do with some lessons in this regard.

    Every successful election campaign contains some sort of rallying cry, for example the WorkChoices election. At the present the government has quite a number of complex policies, but nothing which a majority of people can clearly define as important for the country. This isn’t to say that they’re not, but it’s the message which needs to be clarified.

    Tony Abbott on the other hand has the simple message of taxes and a disfunctional government. Completely untrue of course, but it’s the message which is hitting home with a majority of people.

  26. Amanda Bloody Vanstone!! Is she still our Ambassador to Italy? One of Howard’s grander sinecures, giving her that to get her out of the way as a serial stuffer upper as he cleared the decks for an election. I’ve seen her a bit lately, sniping away so she must be back in Oz.
    I haven’t noticed a Tony Policy worth spitting on let alone nicking.
    Is “shemozzle” a new liberal attack slogan?
    She assumes the guilt of someone but doesn’t say who. Very sneaky, but then she is a liberal.

  27. If the listener happens to be a member of the msm, they’re not lost, but complicit.

    Precisely jane. If the media were doing their job correctly, as in exposing empty, vapid comments and questioning him instead of plat-forming for him, there is no way this abysmal charade which is our political discourse could continue.

    I read this on the weekend in regards to the Pink Batts issue, and it is unfortunately truer today than it was then

    But what was most striking about the political controversy was the stultifying and misleading narrowness of the news agenda. It was depressing testimony to how seldom a complex or rounded picture emerges in political reporting.

    I watched 60 minutes (??) last night with a reporter going into crystal caves. It was an amazing sight, and I could imagine him being speechless, but when he said the best words to explain this was ‘wow’ I hung my head in shame. These are supposed to be vocabulary tradesmen, and that was all he could come up with? Not very inspiring 😦

    No wonder they love yabot. KISS

    Then they write reports about our declining standards in education 😯

  28. I posted this on Open Thread. More relevant here.

    Will one inform the Opposition and some employers that a medical certificate is given by the doctor to state the person is not fit for work. The diagnosis of the reason is not necessary.

    The diagnosis is is a private matter between the doctor and his patient.

    The certificate is not meant to give the boss or the that overrule that given by the doctor.

    The doctor in this case, should see his lawyer. The Opposition have stated they do not believe Mr. Thompson, therefore they are accusing the doctor of issuing a false certificate.

    Mr. Pyne, please note, being sent home from emergency, does not mean that one is well.

    People who have suffered from similar complaints will be very aware that a diagnosis can take some time. They are also aware that the pain can come and go. Most would have had more than one diagnosis before the true cause was found, even in this day and age of advance technology.

    Stress could be a goer. Is this what the Opposition wanting to see, with the intention of writing it off as nothing.

    It is not the Opposition’s business why the doctor has declared him unfit for work. All that matter is the doctor deems him unfit.

  29. ““He has a tummy pain. it could be constipation?”’

    Could be right, but that tummy ache could make one unfit for work.

    It is not his business to decide what illness allow one to have time off. As someone said, a headache can do it.

    Labor was vindictive against Mr. Costello. What word would one use for this behaviour against Mr. Thompson.

    Pairing should be abandoned until the Opposition come to their senses. At least it would curtail Mr. Abbott from annoying workers in their workplaces every day.

  30. ” “shemozzle””

    I believe it is updated from “shambles and shambolic”

    Even Mr. Howard has taken it aboard.

  31. It could be I believe, Mr. Thompson is scheduled for more testing today.

    This would warranted a medical certificate.

    We can now see what the Opposition means by giving the boss more flexibility.

  32. Tom R, I will pay that one.

    Defence minister Smith is making announcements today re defence purchases.

    He was accused last week of not making decisions.

    The have pointed out decisions were made in December. The list does challenged the proposition that decisions have not been

    It was pointed out that decisions have been made on a regular basis.

    Troops are to be drawn down in Timor.

    Funny how slow challenges are made to what ex defence officers say..


  33. Abbott making a speech in parliament. That is amazing. Could be his private members bill. I think it is being vetoed by Brown.

    It is a red letter day to see Abbott there outside QT.

    Standing up for a very small number of Aboriginals in Cape York. It is known that many do not agree with him.

  34. Mr. Abbott is complaining about not being able to get his bill dealt with. He claims the bill was introduced February 2010.

    That is Mr. Abbott’s story.

    Now the real story is, this is the third bill. The first and second where rejected by selection committee hearings,

    Mr. Abbott withdrew the third before this happened. There does not seem to be support of his own party.

    It is election week in Queensland this week.

    Government said he is once again frustrated and spitting the dummy.

    He was reminded that he is not in government.

  35. Sky News: Is Thomson nearly as sick as he claims.

    Perhaps Ms Fluffy Bum on Sky should immediately contact Thomson’s doctor and require the specifics.

    Hello, at least Pyne is being honest..this is the 2nd time that Thomson’s had appendicitis. As I mentioned previously, the risk of a burst appendix is real and father nearly died from this.

  36. Every bill being sent to house committee by Abbott. Abbott will not let his side sit on any committee, such as the speakers

    This leads to the government members to be over worked for no good reason.

    Aim, is to much up the running of the house.

    Talk about being vindictive.


    Cannot wait for QT.

    Morrison once again wasting time in demanding enquiry into the NSW guns incident.

    Another hour wasted, that leads nowhere.

    We obviously going to be the topic for QT.

    It is OUR money that is being wasted.

    Calling for the speaker be no longer heard.

    Motion must be called on during time between business. Morrison is wrong.

    He is challenging the Lady Speaker.

    Government has moved that the road safety bill be put. I think they are guillotining the bill.

    Opposition cannot complain as they have just wasted on a hour of the lower house time.


  37. Min, whether he is or not, is not the question. He has a medical certificate that says he is unable to attend work.

    As for having the complaint more that once. Is that unusual.

    Yes, it can kill.

  38. A worrying problem.

    With a statutory body like the Future Fund, the minister doesn’t have to appoint a chairman from within the board and doesn’t have to consult them.

    David Gonski should have simply been appointed chairman a year ago. The fact that the process dragged on is a pity, but hardly a schemozzle.

    It’s a more a reflection of how the rabidly polarised state of Australian politics is gradually poisoning most parts of society. Everything is being viewed through tribal politics: fiscal policy, monetary policy, environment policy and now the governance of statutory bodies.

    It’s almost enough to make a poor soul want another election.

  39. Cu, apparently Thomson has to have further tests but the opposition want medical answers and they want them NOW. There was a mention that this sets a precidence where a politician’s medical certificate hasn’t been accepted.

  40. Now for the latest BS by a reporter. the PM was announcing a new iniatitive in training so what was of most concern to one reporter”how much did the glossy brochure cost, there are about 80 pages not used properly?”

    It was only when we went back to the news desk, that we found out one of the things announced was a web site with relevant information of
    what the course will cost, what are the employment opportuinities, where courses can take plaec, whether a loan , hecs style, is available, what other course can be done in conjunction etc
    also extra money for “training for jobs” to be put at coag.
    the PM had been to an Industry function to announce program. PM has worked with industry in setting the changes.

    So if you need information/communication forget the journalists.

  41. Another MSSO being moved by Morrison. Guns again.

    He gets his way this time.

    At least we should be spared one at QT.

  42. Member be no longer heard. A least the truck safety bill is through.

    Look like it is going to be QT. I suspect before the first question.

  43. CU @11.41

    Abbott was probably in the House today HIDING after his poisonous comment about Margaret Whitlam.
    News 24 did not know where he was today. His office had not told them what he was doing. Obviously a first, as Joe said News 24 were keen to be made aware of where Abbott would be today.

    so a coward as well

  44. By Phillip Coorey:

    Bob Katter was not in Parliament at all last week.

    He will miss all this week as well.

    In total, that’s nine days of Federal Parliament for which he could not be bothered attending.

    Why? Because he is too busy with the Queensland election campaign, trying to secure a handful of seats for his fledgling party, the Australian Party.

    Of all 150 federal MPs, Katter has the poorest attendance record but, even by his own standards, missing a complete fortnight is shabby.

    Yet, not a peep from the opposition with which Katter generally aligns himself when he can be bothered to turn up and vote. No, the opposition is fixated on Craig Thomson and his stomach pains.

  45. A slight addition to Coorey’s article, Min. Katter is about getting Katter jnr into state parliament.

  46. I just heard the AMA weighing in about Thompson’s certificate. I think Abbott will back down now, although there’s always the chance he won’t be able to stop himself. Just another example of everybody & everything being grist to his psychopathic mill. I think he’ll be working on a backdown line that still gets in an insult, he’s good at them. With any luck Prissy Chrissy’ll be caught out in no man’s land & ripped apart.

    The AMA referred to this as a “dangerous precedent”. Obvious to everybody except, perhaps, Abbott. But whatever, it’s just another example of their core attitudes. They style themselves as “Conservatives” but are in reality wreckers, happy to destroy anything that gets in the way of what they perceive to be their natural due.

  47. Bob, precendence? The least of Tony Abbott’s worries..there’s political points to be scored.

    Point taken on Sky from Richard Denniss – that Tony Abbott has been calling for a new election since the last one, that this is a government that is about to fall, but that he doesn’t even have any of his policies costed.

  48. How does a lay person decide how sick one is. I have news for people, one cannot tell by appearance.

    Just over twelve months ago, I was in the ICU at Westmead Maternity wing.

    It was full of obviously sick babies. There was one in particular, my sixth great grandson, who looked out of place.

    You sense other wondering why he was there. He look so big and healthy. The only thing that alerted one, was the tubes he was connected to.

    He spent weeks there before being taken down the corridor the ICU in the Children’s Hospital.

    He was the sickest baby in that unit. He faced within weeks three major operations. It is only now that the tubes have been disconnected.

    Thankfully he is now thriving, but eating is still a big problem. He is also facing further operations.

    He was born nearly minus a diaphragm, faulty heart valves, plus one one the lung. He also had I believe two holes in the heart.

    My point is, it is brave person that queries one when they say they are sick. It is a braver one that queries the doctor.

    He is still a lovely looking strong baby.

    PM is now talking about Margaret Whitlam. It will be interesting to see what Mr. Abbott has to say today.

  49. Is his tribute to Margaret Whitlam is Tony Abbott deliberately using and emphasising the word “spouse”..he’s said that word at least 8 times so far..not exactly subtle in it’s inference that the current PM doesn’t have one.

  50. Cu, that’s tragic yet heartening about the great grandchild.

    Did you know that Tony Abbott was born with a hole in his head?

  51. “Sneerleader” yum, yum, yum! Love it, love it, love it!!! Definitely one that I will add to my list of descriptors for the Sneerleadeer of the Liars Party. Chortle!

    Min @2.00pm, you can’t cost what doesn’t exist. He keeps saying he’s ready to go to the polls, so why hasn’t he got his costed policies ready and waiting to be scrutinised?

    a) There are no policies, unless “Stop the Boats” is a policy.

    b) They haven’t found a catering firm to do the costing for them.

    I say to the Sneerleader STOP THE BULLSHIT!”

    Now that the AMA has weighed in, I think Sneerleader will shut his big fat yap. He won’t want to put them offside too much.

    When I was working for an employer, a medical certificate just had to say that you were unfit for work and how many days you would be absent from work. I do remember the GP indicating if it was an URTI or some other lurgie.

    I was often tempted to get them to write “Spon Plague” or “The Quadge”.

    CU, sorry to hear about your great grandson. Poor little fellow. I hope he and the rest of your family will soon have him home, healthy and not having to worry about anything more than the odd cold.

    Roswwell, Sneerleader drilled the hole himself to extract any grey matter that may exist. The only thing that came out was a giant blowie.

  52. Cu, that is a very difficult start in life. However, that is very good news that the tubes have now been disconnected.

  53. Roswell, his problem is, he only has one. That is to allow the fumes from his putrid mind to escape.

    Serious motion. according to Pyne.

    This is ridiculous what we are seeing in the house.

    49th and third attempt today.

    That litt;e boy is now thriving. Sometimes I wish they would stop having kids, as much as I love them all. It makes one feel old.

  54. Migs and This ethnocentrism – judging other cultures based on one’s own cultural values – whether it be intentional or not, creates difficulty in cross cultural communication. Think of Tony Abbott.

    Tony Abbott is frightened of women wearing long flowing head to toe robes..must have come from spending all those years of having been taught by nuns. 🙄

    But on cultural values, women especially are judged by the clothes they wear or indeed don’t wear. Our culture says that women who wear ethnic costume must be oppressed and are just busting to get out of those comfortable flowing robes and into 6″ platform shoes.

  55. el gordo, it is an open site.

    That does not mean that one has to reply if one is not interested.

    It is not as if you have anything new to say, is it.

  56. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this nonsense is that the Coalition thinks there is half a chance the Fair Work Australia investigation into the union Thomson used to run will be released this week and it wants the MP in Parliament squirming on the hook should there be adverse findings.
    Even if the report is released, there is a long way to go before Thomson could be drummed out of Parliament. And that’s assuming criminal charges would result from anything FWA finds.
    All that exists against Thomson at the moment are allegations and he denies them.
    Perhaps the opposition is hoping that, if the report is released, it can drum up enough confected outrage to shame enough independents into supporting a no-confidence motion against Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
    To succeed, however, that would require Katter to be present.
    Follow the National Tim

    Read more:

  57. I’ve never known this blog to play policeman about off topic comments, and it’s interesting to read the conversations flow. It’s a pointless exercise in whinging about not getting replies, I’ve experienced a few of those myself.

  58. Cu, I read a snippet that even if it is found that there is sufficient evidence to allow charges to be laid, that it is still very unlikely that it would result in any criminal action.

  59. I think the point Tom R was making there AntonyG, is that el gordo’s comment had absolutely nothing to do with the topic OR “the conversation’s flow.”

    el gordo has a history of derailing other threads with her “weather” comments, when there is a perfectly good Open Thread that could (and should) be used…

  60. ‘his pattern’



    ‘a perfectly good open thread’…

    Comedy gold, you’re a wasted talent baccy.

  61. Sue at 1.18
    Just read the mentioned article & comments. I thought I was a good hater but there’s some liberal boys & girls there that leave me for dead. Perhaps I’ll get to Heaven after all.
    These commenters, by the way, utterly ignored the list of coalition MPs taking leave.

  62. Heretics are musunderstood and I won’t be self banning.

    Tom you’re in the clutches of that Lambertian push groveling at the feet of the NSW Uni troika, England et al., well known members of the Klimatariat.

    You are on the wrong side of history.

  63. Thanks for the warning, Bob. Some of those comments were made by crazed idiots. One bloke jested that he wants a year off work. He might just get it if he votes for Abbott.

  64. El gordo, I’m pleased that you won’t be self-banning.

    This little blog site that’s going from nowhere to oblivion (your words) needs colourful, intelligent debaters such as yourself.

  65. Tom
    sounds awfully exciting, the things eg talks about. sounds as though it could air on sbs, friday evenings after 10pm

  66. Tom is the only thorn in my side down here, turns a simple mistake into a drama.

    He protests too much about nothing. What harm a misplaced graph?

    …and the comment ‘nowhere to oblivion’ was in relation to the cubby house.

  67. turns a simple mistake into a drama.

    Considering the verified pattern, you’l have to excuse me for not giving you the benefit of the doubt
    again. 😉

  68. Speaking of speaking, without thinking, this guy exhibits a continual pattern of doing just that.

    Considering that the opposition have wasted soooo many apportunities to ask questions, choosing instead to grandstand, this is remarkably stupid, even for him.

    Heads up Chris, someone obviously is needed to do it for them. DOH!

  69. Meanwhile, if the libs had thought before they spoke

  70. Tom, that one prompted me to have a look at Kenny’s latest offering at the oo..why I do these things, I do not know..

    Aww diddums, poor Tony tsk tsk, naughty government..

    But the broader point is how it underlines Labor’s obsessively aggressive tactics to tarnish Abbott….

    The Abbott attack fetish has infected just about everyone on the Left – Greens, Labor and trade union officials alike.

  71. which got this BACKFLIP from the opposition

    What a friggin farce they have become

  72. Maybe they can get their own doctor to verify it Min, like they did with their costings 😉

    Mind you, Craig might end up with 3 months to live from their guys analysis

  73. A specialist’s certificate not accepted.

    Watching ABC24. They are repeating what Pyne said but no mention that the speaker disallowed much of it, He was also made to retract some of what they played.

  74. No one thought of it, but this man could really be sick.

    The government should say the will not be party for any pairings from now on.

    Better than the circus that is going on now.

  75. Labor does not have to tarnish Abbott. He is doing a good enough job of that himself.

    I do not think any journalist to point to one comment that is not fact.

  76. Cu, it’s highly unlikely that the government would go back on it’s word about pairings..they haven’t to date. Better tactics I think are for the opposition to continue to look churlish and petty when they refuse pairs for occasions such as they have in the past, such as to attend a funeral.

  77. I do hope that there are journalists out there who are getting fed up to the back teeth with the opposition’s tactics..let’s all run around like wet hens over some point or another which the opposition chooses to dredge up, only for it to turn out to be a big fat load of zilch.

  78. The government should say the will not be party for any pairings from now on.

    It’s the government that really needs pairings. more so than the opposition CU – especially in a hung parliament. Refusing pairings would be shooting themselves in the foot. Ministers couldn’t attend to any outside business while parliament is sitting, and a member sick without being paired could result in a successful vote of no confidence in the government…

    The current belligerence from the opposition could come back to haunt them when they next inhabit the government benches (yes, it will happen – I just hope it’s not with Tony Abbott sitting near the dispatch box on the speaker’s right.)

    Are they setting precedents now on how a future opposition could act while they’re in government?

  79. Bacchus, due to Tony Abbott’s inherent weaknesses of character, if we have the misfortune for him to become Prime Minister, then it won’t be Tony running the bet is that it will be Pyne.

  80. And wouldn’t they squeal if that were the case, Bacchus?

    Abbott would be livid in his accusations that the Opposition were being disruptive or obstructionist.

  81. You’d never hear the end of it Min – just like the mantra during the Howard years of the “opposition talking down the economy.” 🙄
    fckn hypocrits!!!

  82. Bacchus, I am aware of that. Last week we had Mr. Abbott put and about with who he likes. At the same time the PM had to leave her minister behind.

    There is only a short time before the budget sittings.

    It is no beyond the bounds of the PM and the government to rearrange the schedules of ministers.

    It would be difficult but not as bad as now, when they are force to play to Abbott’s rules.

    I thought much of what the did during the Whitlam years would come back to haunt them. It did not.

    Maybe that was Labor’s fault for non challenging much in court.

    It was seen by Labor, as the voter had spoken.

    I do not see them being so forgiving this time.

    Mr. Rudd could have challenge much, he mistakenly chose not too.

    It Mr. Abbott gets in, he will go after all he can.

    Sometimes in life, one just have to draw a line in the sand. I believe it is time Labor did this with Abbott.

    Problems can be got around. Travel arrangements can be adjusted.

    Mr. Thompson should not have got the second medical certificate. I hope the Opposition is paying the doctor.

  83. Thomson was having further tests today, therefore I should imagine that the report from the gastroenterologist is a result of those tests. The opposition were just playing funny buggers.

  84. “Chief Government Whip Joel Fitzgibbon says Mr Thomson went to see a gastroenterologist late this afternoon and he now has a medical certificate from a specialist indicating he is not fit for normal work duties for at least the next five days.”
    “This morning, Opposition chief whip Warren Entsch defended the decision to demand a new sick note.
    “My concern is that the certificate is very vague – he’s got abdominal pain,” Mr Entsch told AM.”

    I only hope the new certificate said exactly that “he is not fit for normal work duties for at least the next five days.”

  85. Sue..probably the reason that the certificate was very vague is because Thomson hadn’t at that stage been for the tests..or is that too logical for the Opposition to comprehend. And anyway, what business is it of Warren Entsch’s or Tony Abbott’s as to the cause of Thomson’s abdominal pains..the fact is that he has them..

  86. I had “abdominal pains” that took two years, two GPs plus a hospital and a private gastroenterologist to diagnose (including a gastroscopy and two colonoscopies.)

    Basically scumbags (Lieberals), it’s none of your business what is causing his problem – whether it’s wind, or colon cancer!

  87. The opposition’s motives on this one are as plain as the egg as their combined faces, to mix a couple of metaphors. They thought that they had a gotcha and stuffed it up.

  88. Interesting from Heather Ewart on 730, “this may now set a precedent for sick opposition MPs in the future as well” 😆

    If I were the government whip who organised pairs, for the next “sick”opposition member who requested a pair, I’d ask for a specialist’s certificate – not just a GP’s. Make your bed, then lie in it!

  89. Yep, when you change the rules you had better make certain that the rules are ones that you want to follow yourself, and to the letter.

  90. Christine, my own impression is that Tony does not give a toss about anything or anyone – he wouldn’t care if it was 20 or 20,000 boat people – people aren’t real to him, they’re just pawns in his game. That was the impression I got about him when he publicised his “virgin daughters”, it wasn’t the daughters he cared about, but the fact of their virginity – that is, the issue is what matters and not the people.

    Agreed, Min, except I would go so far as to say that it’s not even the issue that actually *matters* to Abbott and his hench-idiots, only the use to which the issue may be put …

  91. Tom R @7.24pm, he needs to get his hand off it, but I understand it’s the Liars Party’s version of a singing kumbaya and having a group hug.

    @7.29pm, should we tell them labor doesn’t have to lift a finger? The Sneerleader manages that very well without help from any quarter.

    ….I wonder if a gastroenterologist will meet the opposition’s approval or will they demand a 2nd opinion…

    No doubt Dr Entsch will have to vet the certificate, Min. Perhaps the government should demand detailed medical certificates from the doctor’s treating Liars party absentees.

    They thought that they had a gotcha and stuffed it up.

    Situation normal then, AnthonyG.

  92. Bacchus, I remember back in another life, I ended up in Parramatta Hospital in terrible pain. After tests and a few hours is was sent home with the diagnosis of colic.

    I then went to my very good at the time local doctor. I was in tears, mainly because I sense that the terrible pain I had been laughed off. I also had some bleeding not long before.

    I remember my doctor to this day saying to me, yes the pain can be disabling and the colic needed treatment.

    This was one of many hospital visits over the years, mainly bought on by stress. I know I could not have gone to work. I had to get my elderly father over to look after my babies.

    I has similar problems with gallstones and a cyst on my ovaries that were not diagnosed for years.

    These all caused the same type of pain with me. I forgot the hernia I had also interfered with the bowel.

    Colic and constipation can disable one for days.

    Anyone who brushes off as nothing, obviously has not suffered from some of these complaints.

    I live on the Central Coast, not far from Thompson. Getting doctors, especially specialists,
    appointments can take weeks.

    The point is, you do not have to be dying, to be incapacitated. A migraine can stop one as quick as a brain tumour.

    I think that they now believe the pressure is getting to Thompson and they can bully him into resigning. Remember the pressure they put on a state premier, leading him to attempting suicide.

    Maybe they will be happy then.

    The Opposition do not have to put this pressure on.

    They can wait until the law takes it’s course.

    If it was not an minority government, they would not be bothered with Thompson.

    What is occurring is not justice. Not that worries the Opposition. Winning is all they are about.

  93. Christine, I believe that you’re spot on there..not even the issue is important to Abbott. On the other hand, anything at all pertaining to his religion of choice (himself) is VIP.

  94. What I do not understand how this man can have such beautiful daughters. One wonders. no I cannot say that, not fair.

  95. Bacchus @9.22pm, make that two specialists certificates with details and then bin them in the House without bothering to read them.

    Christine @9.41pm, well said.

  96. Cu, but didn’t you cringe for the poor girls when daddy proudly announced to the world that they were virgins. Heavens, if they weren’t, he would be the last one who they would tell about it.

  97. You’d be surprised at how quickly that thought process works with just a little practice 😆

  98. Bacchus, your thought processes are amazing.

    How long does it actually take the thought bubble to travel from your brain to your vocal chords?


  99. Yesterday I wrote what I heard Albanese say during the MSSO, here it is in Hansard

    “So why should we take it seriously on this side of the House? We should not suspend standing orders, because what we should have had was question time. But those opposite had the hide, when earlier on today we were discussing the motions of condolence, to say, ‘We’ll miss out on question time.’ On 13 out of 15 days they have come in here and moved a suspension of standing orders—not on the issue of the day, not on anything in which there was any urgency whatsoever, but just so they could get back into the gutter to do anything whatsoever to avoid debating the economy.”;db=CHAMBER;id=chamber%2Fhansardr%2F451460c0-4232-4947-a01e-30cf827a8e30%2F0166;query=Id%3A%22chamber%2Fhansardr%2F451460c0-4232-4947-a01e-30cf827a8e30%2F0103%22

  100. Here is something Pyne thought about but Slipper let it be left as spoken.
    (from the same link)

    Pyne:”He was reflecting on members of the opposition by describing us as ‘getting down in the gutter’. And as I was asked to withdraw matters to do with the member for Dobell in which I was accused of reflecting on the member, I regard that as offensive and I would ask you to ask him to withdraw it.”

    Slipper:”I would ask the Leader of the House to assist the House by using more moderate language”

    Thank you Speaker

  101. It’s amazing isn’t it Sue.

    The opposition are continually bleating to their press buddies the alleged shortcomings of Labors policies, dutifully replicated across front pages for the readers benefit. Yet, when they have the opportunity to actually ask questions, to probe these policies, ….nothing. Nothing but more grandstanding and slogans.

    And the depressing part is the media just keep congratulating them on it, instead of calling them on their hypocrisy.

    Yet with the Government, nothing but bad news and opposition talking points. Nothing achieved by the Government is ever portrayed as a success, always highlighted as ‘botched’. The latest piece of rubbish with costellos dummy spit isa case in point. In reality, all eyes should be on him ridiculing him for kindegarten behaviour on a national stage. Instead, we have Labor being accused of stuffing something else up.

    The language put out by either party is entirely irrelevant. The language used by our media is the problem.

    And the scariest thing about it is, it is obvious that the media think about things before they say them. A pattern of behaviour, where tabot walks on water, while Gillard stumbles around blindly, cannot just occur. It is a deliberate story they are telling, and they are portraying the characters as they see fit.

    Luckily, more and more of the reading public are waking up to them. The more unhinged they get, the more obvious this pattern becomes.

  102. Slipper:”I would ask the Leader of the House to assist the House by using more moderate language”

    “In your stomach, you know he’s unhinged”

    Just doesn’t have the same ring to it 😉

  103. OMG, I don’t believe it. is reporting about the windfall to workers due to the mining tax.

    Tony will phone them shortly to discuss. 🙂

  104. I’m so very pleased to see that the AMA are still far from impressed:

    AMA president Steve Hambleton pointed out that a medical certificate was a legal document and that it did not have to provide details. Dr Hambleton said the veracity of a medical certificate was sacrosanct. ”You can write a medical condition. So some sort of guide may have been put there with the permission of the patient to give the employer more information. But that’s certainly not required.”

    I can’t help but think that the undermining of valid medical certificates is right up the Liberals’ alley. Person arrives at work – boss: Sorry, but I don’t accept that certificate I want another opinion before I’m prepared to pay you. And believe me some bosses try it even now.

  105. Min, it is also kind of hypocritical, considering that under workchoices, doctors certificates were to be available from non-doctors.

    Dr Haikerwal said employees no longer have to go to a medical doctor for medical certification for sick leave; they can visit one of the more than 300,000 registered health practitioners who have new powers from today under WorkChoices.

    Can you imagine the debates that would be going on had a chemist written the certificate for Thompson?

  106. I’m glad the AMA finally weighed in on this. But seriously, another day in Parliament down the drain on this nonsense.

    If the Opposition did the job they were being paid to do, and spent some time actually scrutinising the bills put before the Parliament, acting on Committees and so on, the Government (e.g., the ones NOT led by Abbott) would not be passing Bill after Bill in a pretty much unchecked rush.

    When was the last time the Opposition seriously challenged any of the Government’s legislation on any but the most politicking and self aggrandising grounds?

    And no-one will tell me that every single Bill which has passed is perfect, ffs.

    Patents of human dna have been put to the Parliament recently, where is the informed discussion? Where is the Opposition dealing with the tough issues?

    Too busy trying on silly clothes and pretending to be fruit packers and mining experts. This is the WORST Opposition ever in the history of this country, I am certain of it.

    No wonder Ms Gillard finds it fairly easy to deal with the ill mannered sexism of the msm and the pigs of the opposition front bench, she is getting her own way where it counts, and where it will make a real difference to the future of Australians after Abbott’s funny hat parading and Pyne’s hissy fits will be long forgotten except by the cartoonists’ museums ~ in the large amount of legislation being passed almost unchallenged.

  107. Christine, an example of this is the mining tax. I didn’t hear of any amendments, ideas or suggestions..just a straight out (same as always) N-0.

  108. Thanks Roswell and Min 🙂 The mining tax is a good example and so is the NBN legislation.

    Personally, I support both concepts, welcome them in fact.

    But if the mining tax legislation is as full of nonsense as Conroy’s NBN plans, with his goal to censor the internet for our own good, it will be at least as much the Opposition’s fault as the Government’s ~ possibly more because we can expect a Government to try to get away with it, but not that any decent hard working Opposition to let them!

  109. …..didn’t you cringe for the poor girls when daddy proudly announced to the world that they were virgins.

    How does he know? Do they have to submit to routine medical checks? He is disgusting!

    pilgrim, I have now grabbed your word and I’m running with it. It’s an absolute beauty and I thank you for inventing it. Feel free to invent more so they can be spread around the blogosphere. 😀

    Min @8.23am, I wonder how long it will be before Sneerleader backs down on the medical certificate deal. I can’t believe that even he is lunatic enough to think he can put the medical profession offside and there be no consequences!

    Tom R @8.31am, that’s not kind of hypocritical, that’s award winning hypocrisy. I wish the government had remembered that and bombarded the Noposition with certificates from chemists, naturopaths, chiropracters and ambos.

    I reckon Prissy would have had to be carried out on a stretcher!

  110. Christine, I wonder of that is still a goer..I can’t find any mention of Conroy/censorship in the past 12 months.

    The one that does amuse me is how Abbott’s continuously states that he will “roll back” the NBN..that’s going to be quite some feat, not to mention the $$$$s in having to get out of contracts.

  111. Min, yes you are right, it has died down. I believe Conroy still favours the idea but the public outcry was a bit daunting even for his thick hide.

    The Opposition didn’t lead the public in this, apparently just ignoring the furore and focussing on wrecking the bit of the project people actually WANT ~ the cabling to provide access!

    Possibly they favour censorshp themselves, and also likely they just dropped the ball.

    Combining the two elements (the broadbvand infrastructure and censorship plans) in legislation should never have been allowed past first base but of course when you are busy finding hard hats to match your tie and prancing about pretending to drive oversize vehicles, I guess oversighting nation-wide gazillion dollar basic infrastructure measures designed to reach every Australian is a bit of a stretch.

  112. Christine @9.28am, well said.

    Your criticism of the opposition’s failure to do the job they are paid to do also enrages me. Their job is not just to mechanically oppose everything the government puts up, but to scrutinise proposed legislation,debate it properly and try to improve it with amendments.

    AFAIC, they are not just abrogating their responsibility to their constituents, but to the entire country and this is more important even than their lying and despicable behaviour in the House and towards Craig Thomson..

    And the msm has to bear the major responsibility for this. The opposition can try it on, but the role of the msm shouldn’t be to applaud or conceal their cynical treachery, but to lay it bare to the country.

    Combining the two elements (the broadbvand infrastructure and censorship plans) in legislation should never have been allowed past first base but of course when you are busy finding hard hats to match your tie and prancing about pretending to drive oversize vehicles, I guess oversighting nation-wide gazillion dollar basic infrastructure measures designed to reach every Australian is a bit of a stretch.

    Says it all. Sneerleader is far more concerned with grandstanding and being a show pony than doing the job he stabbed Turnbull and Hockey in the back to get his hands on.

    Worse still, like the Rodent, he actively discourages any member of the opposition from doing what they were elected to do. He rewards mediocrity, mendacity, incompetence and stupidity.

    In short he is a disgrace and I hope to God he is never inflicted on this country in any higher office than LOTO.

  113. Tony Abbott is prophesising in reverse, far from it being the worst government in history this will be history’s worst opposition.

  114. Migs and Diversion is an obstruction to impede communication by those who lack the necessary listening skills, or by those who feel uncomfortable with the topic under discussion. Such instances can result in topic diversion. Think of Tony Abbott.

    This one is worth repeating of communication Abbott-style..

  115. It seems that this is how Tony Abbott is controlling all communication coming from the Opposition. However, I would query that statement that there is any shortage of Liberals with their noses in front of the camera.

    One Sunday show host says “the Liberals are a bit of a pain in the arse, they are so controlling of it”. Producers say senior opposition figures accept invitations to appear on their programs, only to phone in later offering apologies after they check with Mr Abbott’s office.

  116. Combining the two elements (the broadbvand infrastructure and censorship plans) in legislation should never have been allowed past first base

    I wasn’t aware that it was Christine. I thought the NBN provided a basic infrastructure open for use by any ISP (who actually implement any filter.) I believed there haven’t been any new Internet filtering laws introduced in the parliament during the term of the Gillard or Rudd governments.

    Am I wrong? if so, can anyone point me to the legislation?

  117. Thanks for that Sue. As I thought, the filtering is done by the ISPs, not at the NBN infrastructure level, and it’s still voluntary – ie. no legislation yet.

    That actually makes sense because I can’t see how you could implement a filter at the layers that NBN is running. (for the techos – layers 1 & 2 of the TCP/IP model. Filtering is performed at level 3 and above.)

    Further from you link Sue:

    Senator Conroy put plans for the mandatory filter on ice in July 2010 and instructed the Australian Law Reform Commission to conduct a major review of the national classification scheme.

    Coincidentally, the ALRC said yesterday it had completed its review and sent its findings to federal Attorney-General Nicola Roxon’s office.

    Ms Roxon has 15 sitting days to table the report in parliament.

    Senator Conroy said yesterday he knew of only one internet service provider that would not implement the filter.

    Yesterday, Internode managing director Simon Hackett described the “mandatory voluntary” filter as “silliness” and made it clear the ISP would not be implementing any filter unless it was made mandatory by law.

    “My position remains unchanged. If the government wants to force ISPs to do something, they need to pass a law.”

  118. For non-technological, and I do mean completely non-technological this thing a good thing or a bad thing. That is, should I be agreeing with Hackett or not.

  119. My opinion Min – YES! Most stupid thing Labor has ever proposed, all for a few supposed Mum & Dad votes in the ‘burbs, and apparently it can easily be bypassed by a tech savvy teenager…

    It sounds like it’s still very much on the agenda too – perhaps an email campaign to local Labor MPs again might be in order if (when) the subject comes up again…

    I’d prefer another approach – change legislation to allow our law enforcement agencies to intercept and trace the traffic to these sites (with strong safeguards in place of course) and catch the sickos peddling & consuming child porn – lock the mongrels up, dont send them further underground 👿

  120. Bacchus, thank you for that..just from what I’ve read, that has certainly been the way that they’ve caught these perverts. Previously they’ve thought that they’ve had anonymity to hide behind, but times are changing..and rapidly.

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