Who? Why? II

As we are rapidly approaching 500 comments on Who? Why?, time for Mark II of Who? Why?

We know two things.

There is going to be a leadership spill in the Labor camp and Tony Abbott would win an election if it were held in the near future.

Kevin Rudd, it appears, doesn’t have the numbers to topple the Prime Minister. But by announcing that he’s the only person in the galaxy who can beat Abbott he is perhaps hoping to win over a few late votes.

It’s a pity that it boils down to who can beat Tony Abbott. I would have hoped it was about who could best lead the Party and the country.

There are a dozen things we don’t know. Will the shoot-out be between Gillard and Rudd or will there be other hats thrown in the ring? Will Wayne Swan still be the Deputy Prime Minister on Tuesday night? Will it be Roxon, Shorten or Crean? If Rudd wins, will he see a lift in the polls or if Gillard wins, can she turn the screws on Abbott?

So these are a couple of questions I’ll throw open to you. Who? Why?

321 comments on “Who? Why? II

  1. It’s been fun Shane, hope you’re well on the mend – time to pack up and visit Mum & Dad down on the peninsula. I’ll be relegated to wireless speeds till Monday afternoon 😦

    Can I throw rocks on TB’s roof as I go past?

  2. Yes it has been fun Bacchus.

    Thanks for the well wishing Bacchus, I am on the mend but still have to be pretty quiet for another week. Getting bored to tears and the constant rain just adds to the boredom. When you are not permitted to drive for at least 2 weeks and until your doctor gives written clearance it severely limits your lifestyle.

  3. Bacchus, a small hiccup..it was to do with a code in the original topic. It seems that when I copied it over to a new topic, that the code caused the RH column to place itself down the bottom of the screen.

    However, now that I’ve deleted that code..seems to be ok.

  4. Anthony Albanese has declared for Kev, so if there is a secret ballot the numbers may not be against but for Kev.

  5. Shane, as much as I’ve been enjoying your contribution I’ve had it in the back of my mind that you probably should be resting.

  6. it’s time out for a little levity

    Taking the mickey in a Minnie moment
    Tony Wright
    February 25, 2012.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/taking-the-mickey-in-a-minnie-moment-20120224-1ttsz.html

    Bjelke-Petersen was in Disneyland when the moment of truth descended upon him. You could hardly think of a more perfect spot. Disneyland. The land of fantasy, where the only reality is a dream

    The old buffoon was being swept along by the white-shoe brigade’s preposterous belief that he could somehow become prime minister of Australia (and thus deal out even more largesse to his oily mates in white shoes, the developers).

    This fantasy was entertained despite Bjelke-Petersen’s inconvenient lack of an actual seat in the Federal Parliament.

  7. Roswell and Pip

    Thank you for your genuine concern

    You are correct I should be resting and this is why I seem to stop and start commenting. However I am so bored with doing nothing. My body is now sending messages that I am feeling better even though I know there is a long road ahead.

    At only 48 years of age it has come as a shock. This is why I plan to do a blog on my experience, to help others know how the symptoms feel and what to do in the hope it can save someone or someone they know in the future.

    So what does Min do, starts adding music clips, that bring back memories and have me wanting to dance on loungeroom floor 🙂

  8. Shane, care to join me? Here’s an easy one.., you can keep it to the hip gyration thing, thereby keeping physical movement to a minimum. 😉

  9. Shane,
    So what does Min do, starts adding music clips, that bring back memories and have me wanting to dance on loungeroom floor.

    I’ll bet she’s dancing in the kitchen as we speak 😆

    btw I have a friend who had a massive heart attack aged 38; he’s now late sixties and going strong!

  10. Roswell

    Sorry if you thought I was younger, however having a heart attack at 48 is considered young.

    Pip

    Like your friend I plan to be around for a long time in the future.

  11. Just popped back and me roof’s being rocked … what did I do in me absence, Baccy?

    Can I throw rocks on TB’s roof as I go past?

    Get well soon, Shane! 😀

  12. Anthony Albanese declares hand for Rudd
    Updated February 25, 2012

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-25/anthony-albanese-to-vote-for-rudd/3852596?WT.svl=news1

    Julia Gillard’s decision to oust Kevin Rudd in 2010 came back to haunt her today as Labor heavyweight Anthony Albanese cited it as the key reason for his decision to back Mr Rudd in Monday’s leadership spill.

    An emotional Mr Albanese choked back tears as he ended days of speculation about who he would support in the Labor leadership war.

    I would have preferred in the 2010 leadership battle that Kevin Rudd had agreed to a ballot regardless of the anticipated outcome.

  13. Pip, in 2010 Kevin Rudd decided not to contest the leadership ballot as he had been told that he didn’t have the numbers.

    By not agreeing to a ballot, he did the right thing – a ballot would have meant that the Yays and the Nays would have had to declare their hand, thereby causing angst..one team member against another.

    The above declaring of one’s hand would have caused division amongst people who have to work together.

  14. When will people realize that Gillard is to blame for labors woes to-day? Kevin was by all accounts a psychopath, a bully and unpopular to say the least. Labor started or continued to blame Abbott for all the woes of the world, now they are blaming Rudd, but I put it to you that if Gillard was a good leader labor would not be in this mess today. You don’t have to be popular to be a good leader, but you have to be strong and people will follow. It seems it is only “her caucus” that are willing to follow her. They are all as pathetic as she is for letting psycho Rud d get away with things for so long. Not one backbone amongst them. I imagine they will be snitching and backstabbing behind closed doors almost immeadiatly after the ballot on Monday.So much for “stable government” a stable of donkeys I say, no offence to donkeys.

  15. LittleMouse, clearly if there were not problems then there would never be any leadership speculation. Or would there???

    We have seen over and over the media manipulation – selective editing/misleading headlines/push polling..to name but a few of the techniques used.

    I don’t think that “her caucus” is a valid criticism as the names are basically the same as “his caucus”.

    Gillard’s reshuffle was Roxon to Attorney General, Plibersek to Roxon’s old portfolio of Health, Shorten to Employment and Workplace. However, these are all people who Rudd had previously been encouraging.

    Clearly a ‘stable government’ is not much to do with the cult of personality but if they get the job done..and it’s been done.

    BTW, speaking of “effective”, how many amendments has Tony Abbott managed…oh deary me, is it none or one?

  16. Rudd was tough and unpopular, so it was easy for the back room boys to organise a bloodless coup.

    There should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that if Kevin or Julia win tomorrow the party is over for a decade.

  17. el gordo,

    You have got it arse about. Rudd was popular, but he wasn’t tough enough. Probably one of the worst moves he ever made was his promise that he wouldn’t throw out enemies. That was Howard’s way, and in hindsight I’ll bet that Rudd wished that he had.

  18. Let me put this another way, 18 months ago labor had an ineffective style and leader, moving forward 18 months what has changed? of course typical defense of labor”blame Abbott”. What has he to do with labor leadership, he does not write their speall for them everyday, that comes from the labor leader does it not?, or sre you suggesting that Mr Abbott writes the speeches for the labor rabble?

  19. Min, my thoughts on the non ballot; it would have shown just how much or little support each candidate had, thereby, hopefully preventing the current bunfight.

  20. Could we just choose a leader who is calm and competent? Leaving the main contenders out of the running, we have Shorten, Combet, Smith and Crean.

    Would Roxon stand if Julia decided not to contest?

  21. LittleMouse, what is your definition of “ineffective”.

    The criticism against Tony Abbott is that the Liberal Party is now policy-free, that he has not made one scrap of difference – not one single successful amendment to any legislation, or maybe there was 1 out of 200+ items. What a pathetic effort. Abbott has his nose in front of the camera at every available opportunity, but has achieved ZILCH.

    You are clearly a Liberal voter..now tell me..why would Tony Abbott make such a wonderful Prime Minister. The Liberals cannot hide behind Tony’s skirts for ever..eventually they will have to state specifically why they want him to be Prime Minister.

  22. LittleMouse

    Here is Abbotts capacity for speech writing.

    Big new tax, Er Er, big new tax, Um Um, Big new tax.

    So I dont think he has the capacity to write speeches for himself letalone anyone else.

    Tony Abbott remains leader by default because people don’t want him as PM, they are just angry at the government and that reflects in the swing to the Coalition. It does not reflect in Abbotts personal standing. I think you will find most Coalition voters would prefer another leader for the next election than their current ultra right wing conservative leader.

  23. Rudd made one monumental mistake in my opinion. He didn’t call a DD and go to the polls when his and Labor’s popularity were sky high. Oh dear, he should have.

  24. As I said, typical labor reponse, blame Abbott, blame Abbott.He is not in government and according to labor lovers he never will be, fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion.The point I was making or trying to make is, are labor better today than 18 months ago? Is Gillard a strong leader?, Is Gillard trustworthy?as she is saying are all of labors woe’s Rudd and Abbotts fault?I know a lot of people will agree with your Abbott point of view, but are you saying that all labor voters think that the labor party has come a long way?, apart from more tax, more tax, increase tax.

  25. Roswell et al, what would a DD have achieved..the Greens now have control of the Senate which is about all would have happened anyway.

    Plus what would have been the DD trigger…

  26. LittleMouse, it’s not about blaming Abbott at all.

    Abbott is (apparently) to be our next Prime Minister – I want to to know why you Liberals think that he’s so wonderfully splendiferous.

  27. I think a DD would mean that both houses are up for new elections, which could mean maybe more or less greens/labor/indies or libs, so balance of power could shift to say the uumm,er er Liberals.

  28. Tony Abbott wants a DD so that he can gain control of BOTH Houses of Parliament.

    The Australian public are just a wee bit wary of this, because the last time this happened it ended up being Howard-rampant and WorkChoices.

  29. Well thats obvious, he is no worse than any of the others and I think he would look better in budgie smugglers than Gillard.

  30. Rudd dithered over a DD, it was talked about in the papers at the time, but with the rise of Abbott who had Rudd’s measure then and still does, he commissioned another discussion paper.

    As it was we have the better outcome, a minority government in the house and a variety of parties and independents in the senate.

    All but the liberals and nationals are putting forward bills and amendments but they have chosen not to participate. Good actually because although the coalition complains and says it will change legisaltion, they just let the bills pass.

    We now have the best functioning parliament, the worst (in recent times) was when Howard had a majority in both houses. The electorate recognised what that led to and gifted the current parliament.

    Back to the ruddathon:
    No doubt the press will hang about outside Rudd’s church tomorrow to get a picture.

    Another hypocritcal picture opportunity.

  31. hhhhaaaa,hhhaaaa,heh,heh, WORK Choices, has been done to death, better to have unfair work oztrlaia, certainly not slowing the country down. lol

  32. I’ve been thinking about Rudd’s ongoing references to the “faceless men”. I think there was a comment in the earlier thread too.

    The “faceless men” quip takes me back to a Menzies era election. I googled it and it was 1963. I thought it was earlier but never mind. I remember their “photos” in the SMH. The word spooky comes to mind.

    But where’s the point in Rudd’s bringing it up ? And to whom was he targetting the remarks ? I can’t see that criticisms of the executive or the factional bosses (if that who he meant) would be a game-changer in the party room but if I’ve got the sequence of events correct, it was Abbott who resurrected the now long dead faceless men of the Labor party.

    As someone who sees the middle of the last century as a golden age for our polity and values, the story of the faceless men and the ’63 election would’ve come happily to mind.

    So I think Rudd’s simply taken out some insurance. I doubt we’ll hear anymore on the subject from Abbott.

  33. LittleMouse and “he would look better in budgie smugglers than Gillard.”

    You think so…ah well, you might have the hots for Abbott, but he doesn’t appeal one iota to me. Sex appeal and Abbott..nope sorry, no matter how Abbott tries to promote himself as a Sex God, it ain’t happening.

  34. Min,
    Sex appeal and Abbott..nope sorry, no matter how Abbott tries to promote himself as a Sex God, it ain’t happening. 😆

  35. Mangrove, I would be fairly certain that when Rudd was refering to the “faceless men” that he meant the people who were, prior to his “knifing” saying one thing to his face, but were doing something different.

    I think that Rudd’s motivation is, come clean and own up..who was it.

    I didn’t realize that the faceless men description was from the Menzies era, but know that the descriptor has been used many times during the past decade or so to infer those who are working behind the scenes, but who don’t/or won’t come forward publicly.

  36. Little Mouse clearly hasn’t been paying attention to anyone but Abbott.

    The government news of all their achievements is on their website.

  37. For those who may not know, LittleMouse is doing an el gordo..posts here and then runs straight to the other place to snitch. I would therefore, given his/her sudden appearance suspect that she is a sockpuppet.

    And that’s goodnight from me.

  38. Mr. Rudd had more than one trigger for a double dissolution.

    The problem was the private in house polls showed they might not win.

    This was added to the fact, they could not get Mr. Rudd to listen.

    we are hiding our heads in the sand, if our memories of nearly two years ago, that Mr. Rudd and his government was travelling well.

    It was not but should of been. Mr. Rudd up to that time had achieved much. The party was left in the unenviable position of getting rid of a dysfunctional PM who was still popular button Te way down rapidly.

    Mr. Rudd, running around the country with a half cooked health scheme, that was a reaction to what Mr. Abbott was spruiking is evidence of that.

    In the last 24 hours we know what Ms. Roxon, the health minister at the time thought of it.

    I would say to our many visitors, the fat lady has not yet sung.

    I would like to add, anyone that believes that Mr. Abbott would not be quickly replaced if they came to power, have tocks in their head. Sorry, I not like talking like this, but I believe that to be the truth.

  39. Min,you must be a little tired. You got caucus mixed up with cabinet.

    I cannot help but think Mr Martin Ferguson could see his value of minister coming to an end.

    Maybe I am wrong.

    Rudd has only said he would not challenge Julia.

    He is still; open to encourage others to cal fro a spill or th challenge.

    Mr. Abbott said he would not challenge, and he did not. He just got Mr. Hockey to do it for him.

    He is still open to put himself forwarded if there is a spill.

    Technically speaking he has not challenged Julia, as he calls her, this time.

    el gordo, are you not game to put up a post, as we do, to be pulled apart or supported if we wish.

    I challenge you to do so.

  40. for your information pipsqueak, I have never even looked at Abbotts website, you are the one that appears obsessed with Abbott, infact you are the one who keeps bringing him into the conversation.I did not know that it was illegal to visit more than one forum at a time. Things over the road were quiet and I thought I might try and have a little chat with you guys, but as I said in the other place, you people do appear a bit touchy. Whats more obviously min is also visiting next door. last couple of things, you should google definition of “sock poopet” and as for rat??? whats that all about???

  41. Cu, going back to the time there was zilch reason for Rudd to call a DD..certainly he had Fielding to contend with and it was likely that should he call a DD that the Greens would have gained control of the Senate, but not much to be gained in the House of Reps…that is, in spite of Rudd’s then popularity, I doubt if Labor would have gained one additional seat..and maybe lost a few.

    Rudd only ‘lost his way’ with the CPRS..and that was a matter of bad timing.

  42. LittleMouse, perhaps you should avail yourself of Abbott’s website to bring yourself up to scratch with his policies.

    You are more than welcome to comment here, however it is a pattern of behavior..comment here and then talk behind the toilet door to ridicule others behind their backs. Poor form. If one has something to say then say it here, giving the person who is being attacked an opportunity to respond.

  43. I just looked at the list.

    It appears, if the list are correct, the PM not only has the numbers, but also most of the heavy weights.

    I do not recognised most on Mr. Rudd’s list.

    If I was new in parliament, I believe I would be going with the strength.

  44. hhhhaaaa,hhhaaaa,heh,heh, WORK Choices, has been done to death, better to have unfair work oztrlaia, certainly not slowing the country down. lol

    PROVE IT!

    BTW … Labor GOVERNS the country … even after Monday … suck it up princess!

  45. Littlemouse, if you want to find out what touchy is like then go to Gutter Trash and mention gay leprechaun.

    There’s dumb and then there’s … fucking downright stupid!

  46. LittleMouse, strange accusation from someone so tetchy. All that I did was to ask why you want Tony Abbott as Prime Minister..however I do understand why this question might be somewhat embarrassing.

  47. MJ, I pointed out that Mr. Rudd is back in that era, when he made the statement that Mr. Abbott was rooted there. I think that was the word he used.

    Both men have much in common.

    By the way, Mr. Rudd made his mate Albo. Well he said he did.

    A politician, so mobbed, so likes, so loved by the community. One needs to be aware, fans can quickly turn on one. It is not a popularity contest. If one needs to be popular, I question their ability to do the job.

    A PM needs respect, not love.

  48. I’m as guilty as anyone.

    Shane said yesterday he’d hate to see Cafe Whispers go the way of Gutter Trash. Miglo said it wouldn’t. I’ve let him down, especially with my outburst last night.

    Miglo or Min, feel free to delete my intimidating comments.

  49. Min, he still had the option of seeing it he could make a deal with the Greens. What he ended up with was nothing. No deal, no DD.

    It was from this time when his popularity started to nose dive. Mr. Rudd, I believe was not the only one to blame for this.

    They tried to play safe, which I believe in politics, is a sign of weakness.

    One has to keep going, as PM Gillard has, doing what is needed, regardless of the risk.

    This is why most government poll poorly mid-term, which we are now.

    That is why we can never allow governments to be controlled by the polls.

  50. Roswell, perhaps I should take the opportunity to explain for our people. Eons ago we all used to contribute to Tim Dunlop’s Blogocracy, then when Tim finished..his blog was to do with his PhD thesis on communication and society, 2 people set up Blogocrats which later divided into 2 blogs. Joni, Blogmaster of The Blogocrats had to take time away for personal reasons and so Miglo who had set up his Cafe Whispers Facebook group some months earlier offered to keep the blog running by setting up Cafe Whispers ‘the blog’. Therefore invitations were sent out to previous contributors to let them know that they weren’t “homeless”.

    That’s the ‘crime’..the ‘stealing’ accusation. This is just to set the record straight for once and for all.

    Yes folks, that’s what it’s all about..’stealing email addresses’ is nothing more than sending out invitations to previous contributors. End of story.

  51. Roswell, I’ve removed a couple of your above comments as requested. As for last night’s comments, I wouldn’t have a clue where to find them. 😳

    We’ve had over a thousand comments the last two days. Hard to find one or two amongst them.

  52. Roswell, here’s our answer…

    The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhewre in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us…. well hardly ever….

  53. Pip, therefore the contra argument is those who try to contact us on a very frequent basis aka the shock jocks, are by definition one of the lower forms of life.

  54. Min at 7.45pm

    Rather than “faceless”, I think that would’ve been “two faced” 😉

    But you’re probably right. The layering of the plots here is thickening.

    The “faceless men” of those times weren’t just backroom boys. We were still emerging from the Cold War era and barely a decade on from the Petrov affair with all it’s Stalinist imagery.

    It would be another decade before Labor could create some synthetic distance between itself and those times. Mud sticks.

  55. MJ, “mud sticks”

    Remember Peter Costello with his snide, supposed to be funny “comrade’ slurs to Labor MPs??

  56. I remember Costello’s degrading laugh when Rudd was elected leader of Labor. It was the last time I ever saw him laugh.

  57. And me being hearing impaired, I love lyrics..because sometimes the exact music is difficult to discern. Here is my favorite from S&G.

    My story in a way, I remember when I was 18 kicked out of home and living in a boarding house with one bathroom between 20 rooms, an old Victorian 2 story house, mostly elderly homeless men..good people.

  58. WOW, you lot, am loving it…. sitt’n on da sidelines eavesdrop’n…. and i’ve even got a coffee happen’n… (shh)….. am impressed with your debates and how some of you present your opinions, have been hav’n a look at some of past convo’s and wow…. who are you people…. this is one of the few times iv ever written anything on a site and the 2nd time here(thanks 4 ur positive comments Min on my 1st visit)…. for what its worth I like Julia…. I like Kev…. and I like Tony too! I mean if Tony got in and was PM he’d be easy to pick out in those world leader crowd junkets….. oh those heres Wally ears…. but I think we should keep our eye on the Vaucluse pauper, maybe he’ll do a ‘Gillard’ on bat-ears….

  59. Rudd had also said he wouldn’t go the DD route.

    Little rodent, although little brain would be more appropriate, imo. Your hero isn’t PM, stuffing up the country right now because, to put in the only language you probably understand, Liealot couldn’t negotiate a f*ck in a brothel!

    Despite offering his @rse to Windsor and Oakeshott they knocked him back because in their opinion he couldn’t lie straight in bed. How about sheeting the blame for the Liars Party’s lack of success to the responsible party-Liealot?

    If he wasn’t such a complete tool, you’d be lining up at the dole office with the rest of the thousands of economic casualties of the Liars Party’s total lack of economic nous.

    But I suppose you’d be deluded enough to blame whichever catering company they used to do the budget.

    Sex appeal and Abbott…..

    More like having an enema, Min.

    Go TB!

  60. I was little naughty for this one. The heading drew my attention.

    Poll-driven parties put the individual first at electors’ expense

    THE nuttiness in the Australian political system did not begin with Kevin Rudd’s sacking in 2010.

    The main parties have been yielding to personality-based politics since at least 2003.

    and

    The focus on the leader is a reminder of the increasing presidentialisation of politics and the weakness of the main parties. Labor and the Coalition yield to the leader because there is no other way to sell themselves. Kevin07 and Can-Do Newman are brands that deliberately place individual above cause.

    The irony is, the most effective government in the nation today is neither popular nor commands a majority in its own right. Julia Gillard has achieved more in the past 1 1/2 years than any government since Howard’s first term between 1996 and 1998.

    The punchline is it is Rudd’s agenda she has been successfully negotiating with the Greens and independents.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/poll-driven-parties-put-the-individual-first-at-electors-expense/story-e6frgd0x-1226280979354

  61. Well said Jane 😆

    But I suppose you’d be deluded enough to blame whichever catering company they used to do the budget.

  62. LOVO..wow, t’anks for da comments..

    As you are so impressed with the debates, perhaps you might care to add a comment..or maybe not…

  63. Yes, with all the comments made over the last couple of days, none say the PM has not been successful within parliament. The biggest criticism is that she does not have the skills to inspire the nation.

    Why does not her results do this. Strong economy, low unemployment and low interest rates. Surely this gives one confidence.

    Why do we expect our PMs to also entertain us, I could not imagine Menzies or Churchill doing that.

    Her outcomes are recognised,even seen as amazing.

    Everyone, and I mean everyone that has close contact with her, all say that she is an amazing woman.

    What is wrong.

    PS To whoever said we blames Abbott for everything that goes wrong. Maybe you could enlighten me as to what we blame him for.

    I will tell you what I blame him for.

    I blame him for continually talking the economy down. I blame him for spreading lies about the Clean Energy Future, pricing on carbon, scaring people unnecessary.

    I blame him for his negativity and scare tactics.

  64. One of the charges against julia gillard ever since she came to government has been led by F*******ing Murdoch press and the we want the man we voted for destabilisation. By the way this is the same fffffing murdoch press that ran non stop bile against rudd.

    (now i know i am angry but it is not the Australian electoral system where the public votes for the leader, so the MSM has been doing the greatest disservice.)

    I loathe that rudd/hawker may be playing with Murdoch or visaversa Murdoch is playing with rudd/hawker.

    On this site we have a whole area devoted to Murdoch. what worries me is how interlinked is Rudd with Murdoch.? what has he rudd pledged to the Murdochrocy?

    It was Rudd as FM who decided the Australia network should go to tender rather than the ABC. The Australia Network is supposed to be the voice of Australia, yet no reason was given to the public and i worry no reason was given to Cabinet on the new arrangement. (Back in the days it was created by howard, howard wanted Sky to run the network but Sky at that time was not big enough.)
    The first tender finished but there were no announcements of the successful tender.
    Then mysteriously in the australian were the stories Sky wins tender. Cabinet worries, the tender process taken off Rudd and FA and passed to Conroy and Communicatios. Second tender process started,then another leak and the story Sky wins second tender.
    By this time the public is really worried that murdoch would be in control of the australia network. at the same time in the UK the corrupt practices of murdoch were headlining
    Then Conroy cancels the whole process because of the leaks and gives the job to the ABC.

    Rudd has raised education as one of his areas of policy, but as we have discussed Murdoch has an IT education company.

    Murdoch /Fox wants all pay TV

    Murdoch in Europe and Asia wants to use his Sky networks to carry education.

    Imagine if Murdoch got to buy into the NBN

    This is what worries me about rudd/hawker and murdoch just what are they dividing up between them.

    I do not trust Murdoch and I no longer trust Rudd.
    Add to that rudd has decided to use the infamous Murdoch line “humble day”.

    All rudd needs is a foam pie in the face, with plenty of cameras.

  65. Once again, words taken out of context.

    Meanwhile, Senior minister Simon Crean has accused Mr Rudd of selectively quoting him in a press conference on Friday.

    Mr Rudd said Mr Crean had said in 2010 that Mr Rudd was a great chair of cabinet.

    ‘He said he listened to people, he took their positions into account, then summed up and made decisions,’ Mr Rudd said on Friday of Mr Crean’s position.

    But Mr Crean says that took what he actually said out of context.

    The story that appeared in The Australian a month after Mr Rudd was dumped also quoted Mr Crean as saying:

    ‘Had Kevin continued to follow those instincts and to use the cabinet collectively, not only would there have been perhaps some different outcomes … but I think there would have been different outcomes in certain areas.’

    Mr Crean told AAP that Mr Rudd was being hypocritical by selectively quoting only the parts of the article that suited his current leadership pitch.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/02/25/Rudd_backer_thinks_third_party_is_likely_722376.html

  66. You can never ever claim that Rudd wasn’t drawn and quartered by the Murdoch media. Every single thing that the Murdoch minions could lay their hands on, from his wife’s business, to his parents, to his childhood memories..you name it, the Murdoch press were, as we all know, instrumental in bringing him down.

    The Murdoch media didn’t stop there of course, having played Julia against Rudd, once Julia became PM they continued the same game.

  67. I know that some people only hear what they want to hear.

    It seems that there are also those, who only see what the want to see.

    Now this selective hearing is generally seen among young children,

    Most grow out of it.

    It seems that journalist and politicians are exclude from this growth.

  68. Pip and..

    Cu, i just had a horrible thought of Menzies and Churchill
    in budgie smugglers 😯

    Pip, you are clearly in need of some male spunk therapy..tight jeans should do the trick.

  69. Min, Rudd was attacked by the media from day one. His Fork in the Road address was mocked for weeks by the Murdoch media. Then they moved on to mock him over something else.

  70. Bacchus at 9.10pm

    I just did your economics quiz. I got 50% right. And even then I had to grit my teeth.

    Unfortunately the answers the orthodoxy approves of are usually inimical to the interests of the rest of us.

    For example: surpluses are weighted in the positive, whereas, according to the national accounts data, they result in reduced savings of the private sector.

    The Costello surpluses resulted in a massive run down of household savings and record indebtedness. If we hadn’t had the smothering effect of the GFC we’d now be celebrating the Costello Recession (that we had to have).

    The Costello surpluses were put away “for a rainy day” when they should’ve been spent on rebuilding the nation’s aging infrastructure.

    I travel a fair bit and I’m constantly reminded of the Costello surpluses by the little white crosses and floral tributes I see by the side of the highways.

    Deficits are deemed “bad”. But if we didn’t have deficits the private sector would never save.

    It was good to see Labor confirmed as the lower taxing party. No complaints about that.

    There’s a better quiz at Bill Mitchell’s blog every Saturday morning. It’s based on Modern Monetary Theory.

    Here’s the rating system:

    For beginners a score of 80 per cent is a top score given the Premium question is designed for those self-styled, hardened MMT types.

    If you scored less than 70% then you have neo-liberal tendencies which need debriefing.

    If you scored between 70% and 90% you are becoming a soldier in the modern monetary army.

    If you scored 100% you qualify for the MMT Friend of the State/Friend of the People award.

  71. The debate has gone on that the labor party should not have removed rudd.
    but it could be worse, look to america, where they do actually elect a president.

    they did not remove ronald reagan

    ronald reagan and alzeheimers

    ronald reagan took counsel of his wife patty who took counsel of her astrologer

    who did run the white house?

  72. I have this funny idea that Mr. Crean’s outburst lured Mr. Rudd out of hiding.

    I believe that Mr. Rudd meant to make his run after the Queensland election.

    That makes more sense.

  73. Sue, your mention of Reagan reminded me of a tv program a few years ago called Altered Statesmen…. I’ll have to search for a description back soon…

  74. Pip, I could not imagine them out of double breasted three piece, probably navy blue suits. with the hat nearby.

    I also could not imagine them taking the shit from reporters that PMs seem to do today.

    They also were not on show 24/7.

    We had a shot this week of the PM leaving her parent’s home at 6.30 am. I assume they were camped outside the retirement village.

    No they definitely had their privacy respected.

  75. LOVO..an Abbott song..it’s a pity that this is such a brilliant song, far too good to waste it on Tony, but it’s what comes to mind.

  76. Both could handle public meetings but that is different.

    For most of their reign they only had to deal with the print media and later radio. TV was not a problem.

    I would be surprised if the UK PM or the USA President have to deal with he media, we expect out PMs to handle.

    I could not imagine them attacking PM thatcher, as they do PM Gillard.

    The sad part is that it does nothing to raise the political discourse in this country,

    it goes a long way in lowering our respect for politicians and the PM.

  77. MJ, I believe that private saving has increased for the first time in decades,

    This I believe is a good thing, but maybe it is time to spend a little.

    I suggest if one gets a low score in some of those questions, it is simply because one does not understand the question.

    I must say, that I am getting better. It is the last question, I seem to do best at.

    I was bought up in the belief, that when it came to politics , it was the hip pocket that counted. That no longer appears to be true.

    Everything is now measured in gloom and doom, at a time when we should feel OK.

  78. “If you scored 100% you qualify for the MMT Friend of the State/Friend of the People award.”

    MJ, is that good or bad.

  79. and we have the answer to all our problems. Nothing about the high dollars and other problems we face. Pigs might also fly.

    Opposition leader Tony Abbott has taken advantage of the infighting in the Labor Party to outline how he believes the coalition would create a stronger economy and society.

    Mr Abbott says the coalition will lower government spending and increase productivity, create a cleaner climate through direct action and provide more people power over schools and hospitals.

    He’s also repeated calls for an immediate election and also for the independent MPs to move no confidence in the Labor government

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/02/25/Abbott_makes_election_pitch_722399.html

  80. Min, Ive listened to the tune that you played, ole…. what i mean is Tony dancing in da dark,…. yeah theres a song in the air….and it aint my fair lady or maybe its a black sabbath inspired time.( after Monday 10am).. they had a song out in’72 called ‘Solitude” and it goes like this…. ‘My name it means nothing, my fortune is less.. my future is shrouded in dark wilderness.. sunshine is far away, clouds linger on,… everything I possesed, now it’s all gone…..etc…’Vale’ whoeva loses. lol ..P.S come on Min his names Bruce,mm!!!!

  81. Sue, maybe that is the business that Mr.Rudd wants to finish. Putting Mr. Abbott in power. Anyone but Julia Gillard.

  82. And now for something completely different, this is the 2nd record that I ever bought, and still have it, it’s a ’78. This is by Russian early 20th century composer Borodin. The singer is Richard Kiley.

  83. CU
    “Mr Abbott says people power over hospitals.”

    just like Bailleau who wants to sack nurses and employ assistants with 3 months of tech training. that will save dollars, lives well that is another matter.

    have a daughter who is a nurse, she says vic nurses only want what all other states have.

  84. Sue, there were some very interesting pieces in the Crikey article..

    for mine, I’m furious because we damn near ended up with Tony Abbott as the bloody PM..

  85. Sue, he means local hospital boards, I imagine ruled by local doctors that existed up to the middle of last century when cottage hospitals existed.

    Can anyone really see a local board running the high tech hospitals we have today. One where all the patients are critical.

    The same goes for schools. You cannot get the P and C or mothers club to agree how a fete should run.

    It is the government’s responsibility to run these things. That is what we elect them for..

  86. And worse still Pip at the time I didn’t believe the stories, I thought it was just more of the usual msm attacks on rudd.
    So in a way when Crean said journos should admit who was briefed by Rudd, they don’t have to because they already have.

    Now that the pollies themselves have decided enough is enough, thank goodness for the net, we as individuals can do the relevant search.

    If Rudd hadn’t decided to challenge, he would have been remembered more kindly, as the party sure tried not to damage rudd in the eyes of his adoring public.

  87. Sue, do not believe it is going to be very pretty Monday afternoon. Mr. Rudd either expects to win, or he is out for vengeance. I think it’s a little of both.

    Mr. Rudd is not doing a Keating. Keating did not put a minority government at risk.

    If Mr. Rudd was to win, it will be a repeat of Whitlam and we will have an election called before the day is out.

    Mr. Rudd would have to know this.

    Most commentators are also ignoring the risk.

    We can only hope that Mr. Albanese has been doing some reading on Daly and Mr. Rudd does not go and have a steak lunch.

    There is too much that can go wrong.

  88. CU
    When abbott comes up with those quaint ideas of his local hospital boards, I am sure he bases his ideas on 1950’s tv programs.

    abbott probably misses seeing the matron in the funny hat and cape

  89. Pip, my great uncle was a concert violinist and I studied for the Royal Victorian Ballet, and another uncle was with the Royal Victorian Theatre trust and so apart from my dad’s love of Bing Crosby, my early music was all from the classics.

    That one is from the operetta Kismet by Alexander Borodin. A number of his melodies were later used in popular theatre.

    Brightman does a fairly good job of this one of Borodin’s..

  90. Was his mother a nurse, or am I wrong.

    Also, I thought this government was reducing spending quicker than any other government in recent times. I was hoping that MJ would come in on that one.

    And I am sure bringing back work choice with a new name will fix productivity.

    Has anyone looked at the pictures of the car factories, with their high tech or noticed that the next wave of trucks and trains for the mining industry have no drivers.

    Wages are becoming a smaller percentage of a firms outlays.

    Also trimming the PS after this government has been doing so for the last couple of years, does not sound too bright.

    A lot of motherhood statements that mean nought.

    Just looking at QandA. Missed earlier. Ms Bishop said that tape can be sourced. It would not surprise me if the PM introduces who put it on the web, before the meeting Monday morning.

  91. Min, I’d like you to meet Mr. Alfie Boe who began his working life as a singing mechanic, was overheard by a customer who suggested he go off and have some training….

    He did. Armed with his training and three languages now up his sleeve he’s a hot property….. daughter thinks he’s hot!

    from Les Miserables 25th Anniversary Concert…

    as Valjean..

  92. Sue, I have a funny feeling that Mr. Albanese is voting for Mr. Rudd but is backing the PM.

    Mr. Albanese did not criticise the PM, he did the opposite. He did not say that she was doing wrong.

    Mr. Albanese did not say that Mr. Rudd should not have been removed. He said that it was wrong the way it was done.

    It surprises me that Mr. Albanese was not a part of the group to moved against Mr. Rudd. Mr. Albanese said he cancelled against it.

    What Notice is the PM does not only has the numbers but she has the heavy weights in the government. That is if the lists are near correct.

    I think everyone is giving credit to what Mr. Rudd achieved.

  93. Min, I’d like to introduce Mr. Ramin Karimloo, Iranian born Canadian, who began his singing career as a singer on cruise ships, now a fully fledged opera singer… also hot…even a little ahead of Alfie !

    He’s been playing the Phantom for the last several years in London’s
    West End

    do you hear the people sing
    singing the the song of angry men….

  94. CU

    agree about albanese am glad he will still be minister and leader of the house.

    Now about the leakers to the press and other destabilisation tactics.

    This story about the Australia network did not make sense then but sure does now, I bet Scott was telling the truth.

    “Resources Minister Martin Ferguson has accused the ABC’s managing director, Mark Scott, of inappropriate lobbying over the corporation’s tender for the Australia Network.
    At the heart of the dispute is a phone call Mr Scott made to Mr Ferguson when the minister was in Perth for a ministerial council meeting last month.

    Mr Scott has confirmed he phoned the minister but denies discussing details of the tender. ”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-15/australia-network-tender-mark-scott/2796108

    I wonder how the police investigation is going:

    “AFP probes Australia Network tender leak
    The AFP investigation could result in criminal charges being laid under the Crimes Act against any public servant found to have breached confidentiality in a Commonwealth tender process.

    Officials speculate the leaks may be connected with Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd’s personal political ambitions and what is perceived to be his own preference for the Sky News bid that would embrace a model referred to by ABC insiders as “Rudd TV’’, including a “promotional channel’’ devoted to broadcasting into China.
    News Ltd media has maintained a steady drumbeat of commentary and reportage on the issue in what has appeared to be a campaign to influence the bid in favour of Sky News.”
    http://afr.com/p/national/afp_probes_australia_network_tender_CgCyxiOtW8JWCt3eXiQvsK

  95. Theories about why there’s still anger in the community about the ALP replacing Rudd with Gillard ages ago before the last election when she won more seats than Abbott but is clearly still less legitimate than he is

    1.We don’t have civics classes in schools.
    2.Many people don’t understand why those drafting our constitution avoided cursing us with a US-style Presidential system (where power resides in one person who’s somehow supposed to represent a country) and blessed us with a parliamentary one (where legislation is voted on by diverse* members representing different views in the community) instead.
    3.The media keep telling people that we have a vote for PM even though we don’t.
    4.Big political parties keep pretending to agree with the media telling people we have a vote for the PM even though we don’t.
    5.The former PM keeps pretending we voted for him as PM even though we didn’t.
    6.It’s much easier to be angry with the people working within the system you don’t understand than to acknowledge your ignorance and be angry with the people who deceived you.
    7.We enjoyed kicking out John Howard so much (oh boy, that was awesome – remember when he even lost his seat! What a fitting end to one of the country’s worst governments of all time) that we thought it’d be just as fun to kick out Rudd, although the Rudd removal was more a sad necessity than a joy and if we’d done it we’d have had to replace him with Abbott.

    I do enjoy when media outlets report how “confused” and “bewildered” voters are about what’s going on, as if that’s not an incredibly damning indictment on the quality of their political reporting.

    *Yes, well, we would be if we had a more democratic electoral system than single-member electorates where smaller parties simply have their votes handed over to big parties on preferences.

    http://anonymouslefty.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/theories-about-why-theres-still-anger-in-the-community-about-the-alp-replacing-rudd-with-gillard-ages-ago-before-the-last-election-when-she-won-more-seats-than-abbott-but-is-clearly-still-less-legit/#comments

  96. Who would dare to be our second female PM?
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/who-would-dare-to-be-our-second-female-pm-20120225-1tuub.html

    How much of the relentless questioning is about gender?

    IN 2009, 23-year-old Giorgia Boscolo became Venice’s first certified female gondolier, breaking into an occupation that traditionally had been passed from father to son, with the result of having been all-male for 900 years. To qualify, Boscolo had to demonstrate she could manoeuvre the narrow gondola, which is 10.66 metres long and weighs 227 kilograms, through Venice’s winding waterways, using a single oar, all the while speaking English and passing on to her passengers stories of Venice’s history. She also had to be able to predict the treacherous Venetian tides and currents. Other women have tried and failed to pass the 400-hour course, so Boscolo clearly has what it takes. Except in the eyes of her gondolier father, Dante. He was reported as saying that while proud of his daughter and that he believed she’d eventually gain the experience to be good at it, ”I still think being a gondolier is a man’s job.”

    Julia Gillard would undoubtedly feel some sympathy for Boscolo. She, too, has passed the tests, steering her minority government through the treacherous currents of federal politics while trying to find the right language to convey to voters about the journey she is taking them on. But she has also run right into the view that “being a prime minister is a man’s job”.

    Even if it is not expressed in the brazen terms used by Dante Boscolo, this attitude underpins much of the hostile commentary on Gillard. It is ironic that this should be the case, given the initial rapture that greeted Gillard’s elevation to the top job, yet there can be no doubting that Australia’s first female prime minister has had to endure levels of vitriol never before seen in federal politics – and it is extremely personal.

    White jacket slurs… ear lobes…. nose jokes…. unmarried……
    deliberately barren….

  97. Cu, how true this is …

    I do enjoy when media outlets report how “confused” and “bewildered” voters are about what’s going on, as if that’s not an incredibly damning indictment on the quality of their political reporting.

    It brings to mind the journalists endlessly asking each other why the government MPs can’t get their message out….

  98. Sue, not up on that one. The HSU one has had police raids in homes in Sydney over the last few days. Connected to the printing of cards or something. Not too sure how in affects Mr. Thompson.

    The trouble there is not an union or many business that would survive the scrutiny that is going on.

    I believe there was a leak, an Mr. Rudd seems to be a serial offender. Who knows.

    When one is consumed with vengeance commonsense and judgement appears to go out of the window.

    Q&andA is not bad. Ms. Bishop put on the spot more that once. Did not appear to have much audience support. With Eva Cox sitting beside her, I can understand feeling a little threatened, but it amazes me, that Ms. Bishop did not realise the mauling she was setting herself up for. I had Eva for a lecturer. I found the lady very reasonable but she does not pull punches or suffer fools easily.

    Mr. Shorten did. Anyone lost control and he didn’t like it. Mr. Shorten just ignores him.

  99. Good point bought up about those in supported employment do not get super. Mr. Shorten even seem surprised at that question.

  100. Pip
    rats lining up in that story

    Cu
    That is what i like about shorten he listens and responds to the actual question

  101. Sue @ 12.53am,

    Labor’s top tactician in parliament has declared he will vote for Kevin Rudd in Monday’s Labor leadership ballot, giving the challenger his most senior backer to date.

    If my memory serves me correctly didn’t Kevin Rudd forgo a ballot because he didn’t have the numbers after the ‘coup’?

  102. Pip

    or the courage to go before the caucus, he could have given a secret ballott, he could have given himself the opportunity to address his colleagues.
    he chose not to and somehow it is everybody elses fault.

  103. “It brings to mind the journalists endlessly asking each other why the government MPs can’t get their message out….”

    It is more annoying when they keep asking the PM and other Labor people the same question.

    A question they know they cannot answer. The answer is “because of you idiots”

  104. After watching the presidential American style Rudd campaign I remembered a link from Twitter about his campaign manager….and I don’t bother with Vex News very often but they do their research …

    MERCHANT OF MENACE: Rudd’s faceless man millionaire lobbyist Bruce Hawker’s world of sleaze exposed

    http://www.vexnews.com/2012/02/merchant-of-menace-rudds-faceless-man-millionaire-lobbyist-bruce-hawkers-world-of-sleaze-exposed/

    It was a typically brazen and outrageous effort by the man who was ethically comfortable taking a desk in the Rudd Prime Minister’s office – while a functioning lobbyist taking in millions from some of Australia’s biggest companies – despite having no official status in the administration.

  105. journalists don’t mind getting out messages that destabilise, they don’t mind being used by plotters and nasties.

    the journos just have problems with good news.

  106. A necessary and sad read. Quite long but well written, in my opinion worth the effort.

    Finally, can anyone explain to me why intelligent politicians believe that Kevin Rudd can lead them to victory based on contemporary popularity polls, taken eighteen months out from an election, and reflecting only the public’s opinion of the Kevin they know. What would they say if they really knew the other Kevin, the one who found himself incapable of governing? In my view, these polls are meaningless as predictors, and to base voting for a leader on them is grotesque and stupid to boot. And what is the point of victory under Rudd if he is incapable of governing because of his personality, which he cannot change? These polls are simply personality contests; Monday’s ballot is about who can govern best.

    Where does that leave us?
    As a strong supporter of Kevin Rudd from the outset, I for one found it difficult to accept the emerging stories of his dysfunctional behaviour, especially after he started so well. I did not want to believe them. But believe them I now must. Was he like that all along? I suspect so; it just took us two years to find that out.

    From what I hope you will see as an objective analysis, it is my unavoidable conclusion that Julia Gillard is the only one properly equipped to govern this nation. Kevin Rudd is not. I hope caucus agrees.

    What do you think?

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/author/Ad%20astra.aspx

  107. Sue, I did see her. I believe the PM has lost weight and it suits her.

    I have thought this for a while but was not too sure, She actually looked pretty tonight. The PM also looks fit, therefore I do not think it is stress.

    They say this is a brutal spill. I do not see that. Most of the language is considered and most do not seem to enjoy saying, what should have been said over a year ago.

    Most seem to give the impression that they wished this did not happen.

  108. How come youse are more aggressive than gutter people. I can’t evenpost there anymore. But you lot hurl abuse by cLling people’s point of view stupid or dumb frequently. Especially sue who mada a snide comment to me last night and when I made one back she accused me of stRting it.

    Just saying

  109. Pip, over a hundred said they would support Ms. Gillard, I am under the impression it did not matter who was taking the poison chalice. It was anyone but Mr. Rudd.

  110. KG

    Maybe because every time you visit, you start off by being aggressive might have something to do with your problem.

    I find that it is not usual for people here to be aggressive but they are quite happy return serve when it is aimed at them.

    It is a long time since we have had the pleasure of so much well written journalism to read.

  111. Cu, if a ballot had been held the result would have been affirming for the PM, whereas ever since her opponents have accused her of not being a “legitimate” Prime Minister, but in reflection they would say that in any case!

    Somewhere along the line today Albanese was quoted as saying he would have voted for Julia if she had not called a ballot this time, which made no sense to me and I haven’t seen it repeated anywhere since, so best ignored I suppose.

  112. PiP,2nd woman PM maybe punching above her weight at the mo, but this liberal MP for Farrer has done lots of man jobs, Susan Ley, jackaroo,landcare secretary,pilot,bushy,farmers wife, good-look’n and brains too…..too bad about some of her views re: MDBPlan,water allocation, mining tax, etc…. but could be influential if the Vaucluse Pauper does a ‘Gillard’… sounds like I’m doin’ an ad… but out this way it seems like everythings about what happens on the other side of the Great Dividing Range… Labor has left us… last 2 votes we have had a pohm Chris Ryan who had know idea or knowledge of the electorate(junket), then next vote labor had this kid(lamb,baa) go up against Susan Ley and he thought that Mildura was a part of this NSW electorate…. she’s smart and savvey and is thought of well here in this Labor town of Broken Hill… funny that,ay… long odds for next female PM, Susan Ley….p.s. not happy about that, but maybe if she does become PM things might get done here in the hill… marginalised is prioritised under this 2 party “democracy”…..

  113. Hi LOVO, now would be the perfect time to lobby Canberra for some attention, they’ll be falling over themselves to make someone – anyone – happy.

    I’ve heard susan Ley speak and I can’t say I liked much of what she said but I don’t really know much about her.

    Living at the bottom end of the Murray Darling I’m very concerned about the vested interests further up the line.
    Watching landline or similar program some time back i saw a man from Bourke state with a straight face that if they didn’t capture the water it would evaporate and it would just go further downstream… der!!

    Kate Ellis is my MP and she does a good job as far as I can tell.

  114. Does anyone have more information on what’s below. There appear that there were at least two books written about how bad Mr RUdd was. It is amazing that there was not more in the public sphere.

    Gillard worked her arse off as deputy trying to make the government work, but in the end realised it wouldn’t. There was a confluence of people complaining to her, movers and shakers trying to recruit her to have a go, the appalling performance of Rudd at a business dinner the night before and the story in the SMH showing that Rudd didn’t trust her.

    http://larvatusprodeo.net/2012/02/23/labor-leadership-3/

  115. So we start the day thinking positively. Here is John Brumby’s summing up of Prime Minister Julia Gillard

    Running the country is a hard and selfless exercise, which requires important personal qualities: determination, decisiveness, self-belief, loyalty, decency and a sense of purpose. It requires strong leadership – and with it an ability and willingness to work with cabinet, with caucus, with the Parliament and with the broader community to achieve lasting change.

    Julia Gillard has these qualities in spades. She is a team player whose single motivation is a better and stronger Australia. Her record of achievement is testament to this.

    Australia is best served by Julia Gillard remaining as Prime Minister, continuing to lead her government and the nation.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/divided-they-stand-20120225-1tvf6.html#ixzz1nPDmzdm3

  116. Cu, one of them was by James Button, son of John Button who was in the Hawke and Keating govts.,
    I’ll have look and come back; there was an article in Fairfax over the weekend.

  117. From the james Button article above

    People saw it coming. As much as four months before his downfall, Canberra insiders were warning that in the next few months Rudd had to land his health plan, the Henry tax review, a new plan for the carbon pollution reduction scheme after it had been defeated in the Senate, and the federal budget.

    Each one was a massive operation. Each one required months of parliamentary and public battle. It was like trying to land four jumbo jets at once on the same runway, and people said it could not be done.

    Some of these people were in a position to say these things to Rudd but he had stopped listening. He shut them out. While the clock was ticking and those aircraft were descending, Rudd kept visiting one more hospital, creating one more media opportunity with one more entrapped patient.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/time-we-heard-truth-about-the-real-kevin-20120224-1ttrw.html#ixzz1nPJ8flvA

  118. This is all just very sad.

    More from James Button’s article

    As I said, I hardly know Gillard. But from my own impressions and from conversations with people who do know her well and who have worked for her, I believe she is a decent person. She is warm and smart. She listens to people and treats them with respect. She has shown guts and, under relentless pressure, has run a happy office.

    I have no idea of the precise moment at which she decided to challenge Rudd, but I am certain she had been as loyal a deputy as he was likely to get. Through the hard months of early 2010 she had long talks with him to keep him on track. In all the whisperings I heard against Rudd until the time I left Canberra in April 2010, none of it involved her. In fact, she protected her leader. As one of her advisers said, they were “joined at the hip”.</blockquote.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/time-we-heard-truth-about-the-real-kevin-20120224-1ttrw.html#ixzz1nPJfLQpY

  119. Cu, your quote from Larvatus Prodeo tallies with what Julia Gillard was quoted as saying at the time of the ‘coup’. That is that she decided to challenge for the leadership when she discovered that Rudd’s people had been quizzing eveyone about her loyalty to him.

    Gillard worked her arse off as deputy trying to make the government work, but in the end realised it wouldn’t. There was a confluence of people complaining to her, movers and shakers trying to recruit her to have a go, the appalling performance of Rudd at a business dinner the night before and the story in the SMH showing that Rudd didn’t trust her.

  120. The blog master is not intending to be awake for very long. The blog master is at odds to explain why he woke up at this time of the night in the first place. 😦

  121. One of life’s little mysteries Migs. 🙂

    I’m about to sign off as well.

    As for Klan Girl I’d be very surprised if she was banned at the other place.

  122. The ostensible trigger event, Gillard being upset by a story in the SMH about Rudd staffer Alister Jordan taking soundings of support for Rudd had “electrified” the Government on the fateful morning of Wednesday, 24 June. Every possible conspiracy story was being canvassed as to whether Rudd, Gillard, factional plotters etc had planted the story, seeking to bring things to a head. Williams says:

    In the end it hardly mattered. The three months of worsening polls, anticipation that the election was doomed, Rudd’s enormous personal unpopularity with his colleagues and the deafening noise from the mining industry over the resources tax had tipped things to the point where any small slight – or the perception of a new injury done to a loyal deputy – could bring the pot to the boil. The mining tax, regardless of the government’s attempts to settle a compromise with the companies, had become a lightning rod for dissent over asylum seekers, the climate-change about face, and a raft of bungled government stimulus programs.

    In the end, one puff and he was gone. All up the coup proper took about 25 hours, although in truth it was all soon after 10.15 pm, when the three hour meeting between Rudd, Gillard and Faulkner broke up. Within a few short hours Gillard had a clear 72 of the 112 possible caucus votes. By morning it was 85 and rising. Only the Qld Left, Albanese’s NSW Left and the Tanner-Ferguson Left in Victoria as blocks remained loyal to Rudd. Kim Carr’s Victorian Left had been active for change from the beginning and Penny Wong’s SA Left, normally bitterly opposed to Gillard, came on board overnight.

    Williams says that during the ensuing weeks a rumour had been flying around that:

    Gillard in fact had initially agreed during the meeting not to challenge, and to instead give Rudd the opportunity to resolve a range of policy issues and attempt to improve his standing in the polls.

    And, moreover, that she had changed her mind after being told that she had the numbers during a break in the meeting.

    This is the rumour that Laurie Oakes used to hijack the National Press Club meeting with last Thursday.

    In William’s account of the meeting there is no break mentioned. In fact Gillard’s staff tried to send in a note to Gillard saying that the numbers were now OK. At first Rudd’s staff wouldn’t allow the note in but later relented.

    It’s a fair bet that Oakes knew that the Williams article was about to come out and sought to upstage that as well. In terms of the story of what happened Oakes’ effort is a sideshow, probably based on a leak of a rumour, which I’ve posted about separately.

    http://larvatusprodeo.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/the-untold-story-of-how-kevin-07-bit-the-dust/

  123. We prefer defeat to Rudd: MPs
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/we-prefer-defeat-to-rudd-mps-20120225-1tvfn.html

    LABOR’S most marginal seat holders overwhelmingly would rather risk an electoral wipeout than back Kevin Rudd as leader, despite his popularity with voters.

    A Sunday Age survey of the 20 members of Parliament with the slimmest margins around the country found just five intended to support the former prime minister in tomorrow’s caucus ballot, with some predicting Mr Rudd’s popularity would evaporate were he returned to office.

  124. Also in the above article

    Former member for Bennelong Maxine McKew, writing in The Sunday Age, accused Ms Gillard of ”shirt-fronting” Mr Rudd into dumping the emissions trading scheme and trashing Labor’s green credentials in 2010.

    Yesterday I spent a considerable amount of time going through old reports back to 2008 and the only thing I could find was a consistent message from Julia Gillard that she believes in climate change, right up to her Climate Change Speech before the 2010 electtion and, obviously, beyond.

    What I did find on Saturday was a report that Kevin Rudd had commisioned an inquiry in Feb., last year to find a way to scrap the carbon pricing policy

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/we-prefer-defeat-to-rudd-mps-20120225-1tvfn.html#ixzz1nPTezj2h

  125. Pip, Farr and Marr made similar allegations the night before last. From what I can find, the PM was first approached on the 16 June 2010. The PM did not get on board then.

    KEVIN Rudd described Julia Gillard as a “childless, atheist, ex-communist” at an Adelaide pub as he plotted a political comeback a year ago.

    For the first time, Labor frontbencher Kate Ellis and other witnesses have revealed the full story of the night of bizarre behaviour at Adelaide’s Stag Hotel in February last year.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/kate-ellis-tells-of-disgust-at-kevin-rudd-pub-rant/story-e6frfkw9-1226281606132#ixzz1nPelhU00

  126. It seems the man has selective memory as well as the selective hearing I believe he has.

    Hawker for suggesting Ms Gillard should not even stand tomorrow, saying he should ”butt out” of caucus business.

    ■A senior Labor source loyal to Ms Gillard attacked Mr Rudd’s declaration on Friday that he was not involved in the decision making on the Malaysia people swap deal on asylum seekers, saying there were eight occasions between November 2010 and August 2011 on which senior ministers – including Mr Rudd – met to discuss the plan.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/we-prefer-defeat-to-rudd-mps-20120225-1tvfn.html#ixzz1nPhxv14K

  127. Anthony Albanese decides yesterday to back Kevin Rudd. Anthony has been a life long supporter of the ALP. He offered his resignation to the PM and she refused. He came to the decision, as he believes the ALP has a better chance of defeating Abbott under Kevin Rudd. It is also avery public protest vote at the way Kevin was removed and his understading that this was completely and utterly wrong.

    He is completely aware and in tune with the swinging voters and their true opinion of the removal of Kevin Rudd. The ALP need the swinging voters to save them at the next election. If not, the party may be reduced to a rump with even less numbers than the indepdents and the greens combined.

    Now the obsessed Julia supporters are out to villify Anthony in addition to Kevin/ Also the bad bad media are now being quoted at a dizzying pace with stories on the evils of Kevin Rudd. The media so despised less than 4 days ago for being bias against Labor is now being championed as the truth of the bad Kevin and now the bad Anthony.

    All of those now talking to the press and airing dirty laundry in public have lowered themselves to the same level as those they accuse of leaking and tattling out of school.

    I refuse to believe that the only person in the ALP who swears and talks about their fellow colleagues in an, at times, unsavoury way during private conversations is K Rudd. It is only news if they are caught or if they are dobbed in.

  128. Shane, sadly it does seem to be that way. As the Murdoch media are in full swing against Kevin Rudd, you can be certain that (like it or not) Gillard is the one who they believe has the best chance of being defeated against Tony Abbott.

  129. CU at 11.18pm

    “I suggest if one gets a low score in some of those questions, it is simply because one does not understand the question.”

    Professor Mitchell is a master at phrasing questions to look easy, but there’s often a trap. When you read the explanations on Sunday you are wiser for it.

    You’re correct about savings increasing. I think it’s running around 10% of disposable income. That’s difficult when the government runs a surplus.

    Thrift is a good thing for individual households but bad for the economy if we all do it. Yes, it would be good if we loosened the purse strings a little.

    “I was bought up in the belief, that when it came to politics , it was the hip pocket that counted. That no longer appears to be true.”

    I still think that old dictum still applies CU, but when it’s Labor that’s delivering, it’ll be what the PM’s wearing that engages the media’s attention. Or Abbott’s antics. That’s the essence of Labor’s problems isn’t it ?

    “If you scored 100% you qualify for the MMT Friend of the State/Friend of the People award.”

    MJ, is that good or bad.”

    That’s really good CU ! But there’s a certain irony in there, much like Whitlam’s use of the term “comrades”.

    It doesn’t happen often, but when I get 100% I do feel I’ve achieved something.

  130. All the News Ltd papers have come out with headlines supporting Kevin Rudd.
    So the Rudd ascendancy is supported by Murdoch. Perhaps that’s why he is being sold as the best chance to defeat Abbott.
    Murdoch support never comes for free and the cost to Australia may be great indeed.

  131. The good old swinging voters, at election time the tv cameras are invited into their homes, the happy families of the swinging voters.

    but what happens to the happy swinging voters when they are betrayed, where are the tv cameras.

    nurses vic
    policemen, nurses, firemen nsw

    the ones in 2007 who believed Rudd would do something about climate change, well some went to the greens in 2010. “The great moral challenge of our time Rudd” was so committed at looking at the polls in february 2010, he decided on a paper to form his new view on what do on climate change policy. Then according to Rudd Julia and Wayne made him do it, as if.

    so with this decision on the leadership leave it to the people who work with the contenders not the swinging voters.

  132. Min

    “He repeated calls for an immediate election and also for the independent MPs to move a no-onfidence motion in the Labor government.”

    Block quote 1098 by tony abbott
    What are the betting odds for tony to move a “suspension of standing orders” on monday. i know odds on favorite

    but the betting on the time?

    i go for 2.10pm unless someone has died and the parliament wants to have a minutes silence.

  133. Shaneinqld, you’ve summed up pretty much how I feel too.

    I think both contenders are equally flawed (we’re all flawed !) and I think the endless search for ulterior motives is rather pointless. They’re pollies for christsake, who want to be PM. It’s a rough game. There are few enduring friendships.

    I’ve got to the point where I frankly don’t give a stuff who gets the job so long as he/she can keep Abbott’s grubby mitts off the levers.

  134. Mangrove, my feelings entirely. This isn’t about barracking for a winning side, this is about as you say, anyone who can keep Abbott’s grubby mitts off the levers.

  135. I would like to thank Kevin Rudd for being a great example of a sanctimonious Christian bastard.
    It’s guys like him who confirm my decision to abandon the Christian faith.
    Gillard as an atheist, has more moral fiber.

  136. Nothing but praise for Albanese from Gillard who understands the factional pressure he is under.

    She has not accepted his resignation and said she wants him in her team.

    Rudd of course is using the announcement for his own shallow political advantage.

    shaneinqld try rereading and watching a bit more widely.

  137. Min

    yes there is a parallel universe. Kerry Chikarovski, on an ABC program the other day was full of praise for Julia Gillard.

    Kerry siad i do not agree with Julia’s policy but she should be given more applause for her strength of character, her abilitity etc etc.
    She applauded her efforts in getting through so much legislation within a minority government.
    She said Julia had received too much bad press and not enough for all she had achieved.

  138. lunalava

    Yes the press will be outside rudd’s church this morning, no not the shopping mall his bricks and mortar church,

    “I’ve been wondering how you reconcile your conservative brand of Catholicism with a childless, atheist, ex-communist as Labor leader,” Mr Rudd said, according to several witnesses.
    Mr Rudd addressed his assault on Ms Gillard to guests associated with Senator Don Farrell, a right-faction powerbroker and one of the “faceless men” who brought Mr Rudd down in June 2010

    I know for a fact that he was talking down the Prime Minister,” Ms Ellis said.
    “He should be honest about what he’s been doing. And we shouldn’t reward that behaviour.”

    Ms Ellis said guests at the event had subsequently met to compare notes about what Mr Rudd had said that night.

    A lawyer – who was present that night and said he was prepared to sign a statutory declaration over the details of the evening’s events – said: “He was just on a rampage . . . I was gob-smacked. It was out of control”

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/kate-ellis-tells-of-disgust-at-kevin-rudd-pub-rant/story-e6frfkw9-1226281606132#ixzz1nQvRwiyv

  139. Sue, I read the kate-ellis-tells-of-disgust story you linked above.

    Out of context those comments attributed to Rudd would be appalling.

    But imagine if they were delivered with a grin to a right wing power broker who had a hand in Rudd’s defeat. Can you see the irony ?

    The “atheist, childless, communist” epithet comes straight out of the wingnut rules book. If it happened, I think it would’ve been very funny.

    I’d be very wary of taking the remarks on face value however, especially given the source.

    When “we” start quoting news.com to advance our arguments I think it’s time for a bex and a laydown.

  140. Now is the time for the Liberals to offer Rudd the leadership of the Liberal Party.
    Similar things have occurred in the past in Australian politics.

    Rudd would be Abbott Lite, the kind of autocrat the conservative side of politics loves in leadership. He would do photo-ops much better than Abbott and is a better after dinner speaker. Definite assets and sorely missed in the Liberal camp

  141. no thanks to the bex too many women sufferd from that addiction, same goes for Rudd. too much of rudd and his family, will they please go back to be happy little billionaires,

  142. there is a new segment on insiders to be shown each month’s end, polling the polls.

    what it showed in both 2 party and preferred pm from just after 2010 election, labour ahead of coalition, then labor announces going for carbon ‘price. coalition overtakes labor., abbott overtakes gillard; then carbon price settled, 2 things happen
    gillard overtakes abbott as preferred pm
    labor closing gap on coaliition

    No wonder Rudd was worried, imagine the polls when carbon tax comes in and the world does not end.
    and i used to think Abbott was the one who was panicking!!!

  143. Gawd ! I just switched on The Insiders and there was that idiot Ackerman.

    I couldn’t find the Off button quick enough.

  144. The more hysterical rusted on supporters treat the swinging voter with such contempt and spite, the more the ALP will become a party of irrelevance at elections.

    Deabte is healthy, bitter and twisted accusations is not.

  145. “and i used to think Abbott was the one who was panicking!!!”

    If Rudd gets up (unlikely) Abbott’s arse will be in a sling.

  146. Swinging voters are not held in contempt, they are just used by the media. Unfortunateky the same media don’t go back and visit them when the shit happens

    nurses vic
    nurses, police, firefighters nsw
    oh yes,foster carers of over 16 year old kids in nsw

    Why is it the swinging voters are not given the chance to tell what had happened to them but maybe it explains why they swing.
    And as to the polls, what a shame there is not a poll happening on friday, saturday sunday. will they show the public is wary of the Rudd they never knew.
    Could there be a swing?. this is why polls are not the indicator for the caucus, they are always from views that are out of date by the time they are printed.

  147. Pip, noticed your comment on Maxine McKew’s article. Thanks for that info. I was astounded at the personal venom towards the PM. I can understand a different p.o.v. on issues, but there was a completely different person writing that article than the one I had imagined her to be. If that reflects something of her character I guess it’s not surprising the party hasn’t rushed to help her reinstatement after her 2010 narrow defeat. After her achievement in ousting Howard in 2007 I would have thought she’d have earned their undying loyalty and affection as a Labor legend.

    Morning all – I found following the commentary here uplifting yesterday. I’ll be back throughout the day to keep my pecker up again.

  148. Some great footage from this mornings “Insiders” Krudd you are just too “cute” for words hence the pictures.

    Sue you I know you like the sauce bottle.

  149. Kevin Mangrove Jack has gone away. I note that Krudd is now playing the “victim”. Adopting the role of a victim is very empowering but always a poor tactic, as Bruce Hawker should have mentioned.

  150. MJ
    “But imagine if they were delivered with a grin to a right wing power broker who had a hand in Rudd’s defeat. Can you see the irony ? ”
    Well ok MJ, BUT
    Nudge, nudge wink, wink, irony ha, ha
    However Rudd’s camp is denying it outright
    “Mr Rudd’s spokesman said the allegations were lies and Mr Rudd spent the entire evening at the function with then South Australian premier Mike Rann and his wife.”
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8425779/rudds-pub-rant-against-childless-gillard

  151. 11.00am news

    Rudd now playing the “victim”

    “round 2 of the campaign, character assassination, if he loses tomorrow”

    channel 9 with laurie oakes

  152. Yes Sue, I read the Rudd camp was denying it outright.

    But the point I was making was that without the context (of any reporting) it’s dangerous to take things as presented, especially by news.com.

    As to the denial, well it wouldn’t be the first time the participants have come back later to deny, retract, or correct, vide Wilkie’s clarifications earlier in this sorry episode where he corrected media reports that Rudd had button-holed him for 90 minutes to denigrate the PM.

    As I read the kate-ellis-tells-of-disgust story I noticed the careful footwork of the writer. Nowhere did it say that Kate Ellis said that “Rudd said”. But comments were carefully arranged and juxtaposed to leave the reader with certain impressions.

    A lawyer who was there was prepared to swear on a stat-dec. Wow. I can’t imagine any lawyer saying such a dumb thing.

    It’s said that journalism is the 2nd oldest profession, but the there’s an honesty about the other that journalism will never attain.

  153. Shane, I look forward to your post where you will share your recent experiences with us. It is an experience that many human beings will eventually face, and I hope we can learn from what you have kindly volunteered to share.

  154. The worst thing that could possibly come out of tomorrow’s head count is the prospect of Julia Gillard sitting in the backbench. She is far too talented and a valuable asset to Labor. As hard as it is, I would have hoped that the loser would offer their full support to the winner. Sitting on the backbench is not the best way to show your full support.

  155. Have always believed that the best leaders were those who did not consider leadership as their “right” and say things like “…they were the only one who could do the job”.
    The leader who insists they are the only one to achieve an outcome have very little to offer other than the way they strut their stuff on the public stage.

  156. luna

    In the managerialist/presidential paradigm those who don’t blow their own trumpet just don’t make it to the top.

    The days of John Curtin are long gone.

    Gillard is just as “good” at it as Rudd.

  157. What if they both lose???? otherwise called a tie, if that is possible…. would they both be leader or do they both go to the backbench??? (my tounge is firmly in my cheek)

  158. LOVO, if that were to happen I’d imagine Abbott demanding an election.

    If Rudd wins, Abbott will call for an election. If Gillard wins, Abbott will call for an election.

    If it rains today, Abbott will call for an election.

  159. I have worked for a few senior managers, many considered their contribution so important that they could not even take recreation leave.

    I always thought about the bucket of water test:

    Put your hand in a bucket of water, shake, stir, splash make a big impression.

    When you leave the job, you will be missed as much as the impression left in the water when you take your hand out.

    It is often said of leaders “Well at least he didn’t burn the place down”

    Well Kevie has just found a brand new box of matches

  160. Through all these complexities, one thing remains certain. The choice is presenting the media with Rudd who will be killed at leisure, or Gillard who will be killed as soon as possible.
    Assuming a Rudd led government would last the day.

  161. Roswell, I would agree with you on that one. Abbott seems to be under some sort of illusion that he can gain both houses of parliament, which is highly unlikely. I think that in the future that we will be blessing the Greens for their presence in the Senate, so as to prevent Tony Abbott implementing some of the worst of his brain farts ideas.

  162. Min @ 1.37pm, very true!

    I think that in the future that we will be blessing the Greens for their presence in the Senate, so as to prevent Tony Abbott implementing some of the worst of his brain farts ideas.

    I wonder whether they now regret not passing the original ETS.
    My thought is that they don’t, but I could be wrong.

  163. MJ

    quoting a news.com article especially any associated by sideshow sam is such a reversal you would think i was a signed up member of the liberal party.

    the only thing about that the kate ellis story is when you add it to the others and over the last few days google has been googled.
    for example the crikey article from august 2010, the number of journos saying Rudd was leaking against the govt . At the time i didn’t want to believe that of rudd. so on it goes there are plenty of articles on rudd demeaning gillard.
    shame

  164. and another one…

    THE Gonski report on school funding was still hot from the presses on Monday when the egregious Christopher Pyne, the opposition’s education spokesman, fell upon it like a poodle puppy at a plate of Pal.

    With intellectual powers far beyond those of mortal men, he absorbed its 319 pages, 31 tables of facts and figures, 58 charts and graphs, and 41 recommendations in about 45 seconds flat. Then, hey ho, it was off to a press conference to yap that ''essentially now every non-government school is on a private school hit list''. Plucking a figure from the air, he claimed the report would cost independent schools $4.2 billion over four years.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-partys-over-rest-in-despair-20120224-1ttja.html#ixzz1nSOfbHEq

  165. Shane there are no allegations or stories that were not out there before and after June 2010.

    What is amazing that they did not get more coverage then?

    What did happen that night was not pretty and maybe should have been done differently.

    Everyone involved seems to agree on that score.

    Whether leaving Mr. Rudd in place was warranted, is another matter.

    We had the media that did not bring these stories to the public’s attention, while creating at the same time, the myth that Mr. Rudd was removed without due cause.

    It is the media’s duty to bring both sides to the fore.

    There is nothing wrong about one challenging. It appears that it is now a crime to do it cleanly and quickly.

    As Speaker Slipper said, this is democracy at work, under the Westminster system.

    In hindsight, it would have been better for Labor if the opposite was true, and the so-called dirty laundry exposed then. It would have been better if a vote has taken place. That is in hindsight and history.

    From what I read, there was justified concern for three months. Other means were tried to fix the escalating problem. It is clear that the PM first knew about the proposed action, when approached on the 16th June 20110, but did not indicate any willingness to join the move.

    What has been made clear in my eyes is what made things so hard to deal with, is Mr. Rudd’s wonderful record in beating Mr. Howard and getting the country thought the GFC. Many supported him fully in the apology. The only evidence that I have seen is most wanted this legacy to remain intact. Most only wanted him removed, not destroyed. Mr. Rudd was great as a FM but apparently a failure in the long term as a PM. There is no disgrace in that. There is not a brilliant person on earth that is good at everything. Sometimes brilliance can get in the way of being a leader.

    It appears that Mr. Albanese was one of the very few voices to counsel against the move.

    If it is true, is not what Mr. Rudd done from then to now, grounds for disloyalty against the party and expulsion. Mr. Rudd is now by his actions, attempting to by-pass government and party procedures.

    I for one believe so, and this might be why some are saying it is worse than previous Labor splits.

    Is the PM and the majority of the party responsible for Mr. Rudd’s actions? I believe not.

    Are they responsible for allowing him to continue? Maybe, but acting sooner, without the magic word, evidence is also not prudent.

    Is the media somewhat to blame. I believe so. They simply cherry picked what they reported and did not cover both sides. They allowed a myth to grow, that Mr Rudd was the victim.

    We heard Mr. Rudd warn the media that they have a code of ethics to uphold. To my eyes, this was said in a threatening manner, and I believe on purpose.

    It is clear that the PM does not cultivate the media. It seems that the PM also does not play political games.

    I believe this matter will not be dealt with, no matter the vote, until the party deals with Mr. Rudd. This is the danger for the party.

    The last twenty months has proven that one cannot bury disloyalty. It only festers and erupts at inopportune times.

    “Yes there is a parallel universe. Kerry Chikarovski, on an ABC program the other day was full of praise for Julia Gillard”

    The woman also did it with grace. I was also surprised.

    “All of those now talking to the press and airing dirty laundry in public have lowered themselves to the same level as those they accuse of leaking and tattling out of school.

    Mrs Rudd is sure that the PM was stalking her husband for months, because the PM stopped looking her in the eye. Maybe the PM felt sorry for his wife, in light of the job he was doing. It would not be the first time that one knowing something bad about a spouse felt uncomfortable it their presence.
    I do not believe, as Mr. Barry Jones is reported as saying, this is the worse split Labor has had. It is not about policy. It is not even practically about personalities. It is not about fractions or faceless men. It is about a PM who was not functioning.

    What is of concern is that many of Mr. Rudd’s alleged actions could amount to disloyalty, which could lead to expulsion from the party. This matter cannot be ignored, as they have tried to do for the last twenty months. Putting an election campaign at risk cannot be ignored.

    “I refuse to believe that the only person in the ALP who swears and talks about their fellow colleagues in an, at times, unsavoury way during private conversations is K Rudd. It is only news if they are caught or if they are dobbed in.”

    No, they are not talking about swearing. They are talking about his disloyalty to the party by continually undermining everything the government has done.

    The Cassidy interview with MS. Roxon was a pleasant surprise. Mr. Cassidy ran the interview as if he was interested in finding out information. There was time for answers. Some of the questions were probing, as it should be.
    The PM is correct it is not that hard.

    Min, I would go for 9.00 am. He will by-pass a suspension of standing orders and goes directly for a censure motion. I know that parliament is not due to meet until 2.30 but I believe that can be overcome. Does one believe that Abbott will allow the spill meeting to run undisrupted?

    Cassidy is right. This is the second strike, and I hope second rejection.

    Shane, suspect it is not about many of disagreeing. It is also seeing and deciphering events in a different way. I suspect the truth is that we all are a little correct and a little wrong.

    What is true, we cannot take what the media says at face value.

    I believe we all have great respect for Mr. Rudd, at least up to that night. Yes, the party should have done more about the undermining. They obviously lacked the stomach to do this. We all find ourselves in the position of being angry when we have not taken the right action. We generally over react when faced with this reality.

    I noticed that Mr. Rudd choose Mr. Oakes for this morning’s interview. Cleaning them toilets of Mr. Oakes has proven very worthwhile for Mr. Rudd. I wonder if Mr. Oakes treats his other cleaners so well.

  166. Speaker of the House joins, or is that above, the fray.

    Labor’s leadership tussle is ‘democracy in action’: Slipper

    http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/labors-leadership-tussle-is-democracy-in-action-slipper-20120226-1tw6q.html

    Mr Slipper – whose tenure in the Speaker’s position relies somewhat on the outcome of tomorrow’s ballot given any early election would likely spell the end of his career – has seen fit to ”educate” sections of the community spellbound by Labor’s very public meltdown.

    Journos still hoping for Tony’s ‘early election’, and of course no story is complete without a description of Mr. Slipper’s clothing…

    He should have expected to cop some flak, and most likely did, for wearing the ceremonial Speaker’s robes but I can see his point in trying to bring some dignity back to the Parliament.

    Mr Slipper appears in the video dressed casually – a marked departure from his newly revived ceremonial speaker robes – perched atop a headland in his coastal Queensland electorate of Fisher.

  167. Goodness, Peter Slipper looks almost “normal” in casual attire..I always think of him and his somewhat impressive dress sense which includes lime green shirts and ties. Given the aforementioned, it’s probably a blessing that he did decide to revive the Speaker’s robes.

  168. PS I have sent all my emails again. Just like make sure they are aware of what my feelings are.

    At this time I would like to add that at this time, I find Mr.Rud an enigma. He has done great things and has had great failures. This is not unusual in one so bright.

    What is also unusual for bright people not to realise or accept this.

  169. This is an issue that needs addressing. It is what has allowed Mr. Rudd to get away with what he has.

    Now, I understand that sometimes journalists need to protect sources (of course they do), but surely there is a difference between protecting the identity of, say, a whistleblower, and keeping secret the identity of a self-serving politician trying to advance his or her career?

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3845564.html

  170. Roswell 23.41

    trust you to speak the bleeding obvious
    do you think we can have a bet on the censure motion time, the winner buys lattes?

  171. Just had a brain fart.

    It is probable down the track the Liberal Party will be facing the same dilemma.

    These two nearly identical twins.

    I think that Mr. Rudd might have a few more brains and has actually achieved something, unlike Mr. Abbott.

    Both are about demolishing what their predecessor has achieved, no matter the cost.

    Both share a common enemy they hate.

    Both share the belief that they were born for the job.

  172. Roswell what we need to be wary of, is that Mr.Abbott is not given the power to call an election tomorrow.

    That is not impossible.

    That is the elephant in the room that all seem to be ignoring.

    Shane and MJ, I like having you both here. It matters not that we do not agree. If the truth is known, we would probably get on OK together.

    It is nice to have sensible and genuine people disagreeing with one.

  173. CU challenge in Liberal camp before or after the winter break.
    carbon tax will be in, the earth will not have stopped rotating
    tax cuts will be in, plenty of happy voters

    before break, time for new bench to be picked
    after break, time to visit the movers unnoticed

    then there is the usual time for change, the pre-xmas attack

    but must happen this year so there is time to develop some policies.

  174. It is being suggested that Martin Ferguson sees himself as the third canidate.

    That does not surprise me, but I can see his brothers, bent over with laughter.

  175. “Assuming a Rudd led government would last the day”

    Bob, I believe that Mr. Rudd will not be PM even if he wins the ballot.

    The GG has many reserved powers, as Mr.Whitlam found out.

    The question will be, who will be PM when we go to the next election.

    What happens if the PM does not accept PM Gillard registration. Will the GG appoint someone else to advise her, as back in the Whitlam crisis.

    If the PM does not get the majority votes and some more, we will be in shock tomorrow night, with Mr. Abbott as PM and facing an immediate election.

    This scenario is more probable than possible,

    No one knows how far reserve powers go until tested.

  176. Could be that the PM had chosen to go it alone, not needing her partner.

    Mrs. A turning up is interesting. If the daughters appear tomorrow, we will know it is on.

    Those members of caucus better be sure they know what they are doing tomorrow.

    I do not agree with Mr. Albanese that tomorrow is about fixing a past wrong. It is too late for that and this is not the way to do it.

    Tomorrow is about saving the Labor government. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    One must never under estimate the reserve powers of the GG.

  177. Catching Up
    I think a win for Gillard will settle things down within Parliament.
    Who knows what will happen if she doesn’t.

    But the media will only demand more entertainment. If Rudd gets two votes that will be described as a powerful base from which to continue his campaign.

  178. Bob, it will if the vote is large enough. Many of those back benchers need to rethink before tomorrow morning.

    There is hope in that today, Mr. Rudd said he would support thr PM if she won. That is an beg back down for him.

    Maybe the numbers are not that good for him.

    The likes of Ferguson and Bishop in my mind are not that important. I would have lked to she Falkiner on the other side, but the man has always been a sticker doing things right.

  179. Bob, I anticipate that Gillard will win. With Rudd having mounted a challenge and having lost it gives Gillard clean air with which to proceed. Since Gillard took over there has been the Will Rudd challenge? question continuously thrown up..which in turn has been the most major distraction in the goverment’s ability to be able to promote its reforms.

  180. Shane, nobody is treating swinging voters with venom and spite. However, when they refuse to accept a truth which is staring them in the face, we become frustrated.

    There isn’t a lone maverick accusing Rudd of being impossible to work with, being arrogant to the point of dictatorship, paranoid, suspicious, refusing to cooperate with his colleagues, leaking to thepress…. the list goes on and on!

    Almost to a wo/man, Rudd has been described by his colleagues as an autocrat who was abusive, rude, overbearing, spiteful and impossible to work with.

    Many have said that he was paralysed after the ETS was defeated and no amount of persuasion could get him OFF HIS FAT @RSE AND DOING WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO!

    He’s shown how ruthless and vindictive he is with his campaigning behind the government’s back and his venomous attacks on Julia Gillard’s character, his behind the scenes deals with Clubs Australia to get rid of pokies reform and leaking to the Murdochracy.

    “Poor me”, he cries. “The hapless, helpless victim betrayed by one and all by this barren, God denying virago!” Well, Shane, here’s the news flash. That treacherous sod is the betrayer.

    He’s well and truly betrayed me and everyone who believed in him! If you think I’m wild about it, you’re wrong! I’m f*cken incensed at his betrayal!!!! He’s kicked each and everyone of us who placed their trust in him to govern this country in the guts!!!

    We expected a PM who would put the country’s interests above his own self aggrandisement. We expected a PM who, with his team, would work hard to implement the policies he went to an election with. We wanted a team: we got a dictator and a bloody inefficient, arrogant, nasty one he was.

    Think about it. If any other member of the government had done such things, you would rightly be demanding their head on a platter. So please explain to us why Rudd’s behaviour should get special consideration and why he should be exempt from being held to account for it?

    Aside from that, I hope you’re not overdoing things and jeopardising your recovery. I’d also like to echo Migs and see a post from you about your heart attack and its ongoing impact on you and your family. I hope they are all coping well.

    blockquote>If Rudd gets up (unlikely) Abbott’s arse will be in a sling.

    Yeah, Rudd really had Abbott on the ropes before he was deposed, didn’t he? Liealot ran rings around him! Rudd was like a deer in the headlghts. His performance against Liealot was pathetic.

  181. What else that is being glossed over is the fact that the media has been found wanting.

    Rudd is now saying the PM will have his full support. This time I finally believe him

  182. CU
    they say action speaks louder than words
    in rudd’s case it will be no action and no leaks

    rudd proclaimed that he and his family work for the electorate. so lets hope the rudd family do as they say, become like every other back bencher and only be written up in their local newspaper.

  183. Yeah, Rudd really had Abbott on the ropes before he was deposed, didn’t he?

    I just checked Newspoll for the week Rudd was deposed and I don’t think that’s correct Jane.

    Labor was 52 to the Coalition’s 48 whilst Rudd still led Abbott 46/37 as preferred PM.

    Labor’s vote had been on the increase for the preceding 4 weeks.

    It was far from the halcyon days of 75% approval but not exactly disastrous.

    The results were very close to the numbers that gave Labor government at the previous election in 2007.

    I was prepared to accept your assertion as I’d really forgotten those sorts of details. So I was a bit surprised to see just how bad things weren’t.

  184. I thought of suspected that the mind of this challenge was not of Mr. Rudd’s liking.

    I believed that Mr. Crean’s outburst lured him out of the woodwork.

    Mr. Rudd lost his cool and fell into the trap. I am not even sure if Mr. Rudd intended to go as far as he did when he arrived back in the country I believe he seen himself sitting in the back bench, gathering sympathy.

    The PM did the unthinkable and called a spill.

    The timing of the ballot, as Mr Rudd acknowledged on TV this morning, has worked against him.

    There is no doubt about that.

    Wise heads in Camp Rudd always wanted a challenge later this year, not now.

    Ms Gillard has maximised her tactical advantage, blowing this up while Mr Rudd was out of the country.

    For Mr Rudd, this looks like a case of wrong timing, wrong terrain.

    http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/blogs/the-pulse/showdown-labors-leadership-crisis-20120226-1tw1f.html

  185. Mr. Rudd lost his cool and fell into the trap

    I see it differently CU.

    I think the Gillard forces got sucked into the media’s agenda.

    We’re told (now) that Rudd had been busy backgrounding journos for months. But if that’s so, who besides the media knew about it. Remember how we all dismissed it as a media beat-up ?

    As the media got desperate to make something happen, the government initially played it with a dead bat…”getting on with the business of governing”.

    And then Crean cracked.

    Think how things could’ve been different if the government had continued to ignore the entreaties of the media until after the carbon price scheme, the MMRT, and other policies had kicked in.

    Rudd could’ve been held at bay until he was irrelevant.

  186. MJ, either way, I believe that Mr. Rudd is in a position that does not fit in with what he had planned.

    We know that the PM believed that Mr. Rudd was white anting her but had no proof.

    Mr. Crean does not strike me as one who loses it.

    The PM now has an enemy that is out in the open.

    Both Mr. Rudd and Mr. Abbott were running out of time to move against the PM.

  187. CU

    “The PM now has an enemy that is out in the open.”

    and the voters also can see the enemy,

    On the funny side, the coalition has tried and tried to upset the PM with their never ending motions to suspend standing orders, no wonder the PM would give a little smile as she wandered out of QT. whatever the coalition tried to dish up it was nothing compared to the whiteanting by rudd. and come tomorrow, rudd will have brought about his own irrelevance.

    good night CU

  188. MJ, don’t forget that at that time, the Greens flaty refused to pass the ETS.

    A question, who stood to gain by releasing the Youtube video of Mr. Rudd?

    Was it’s release calculated to confirm what had been written much earlier about his temper, or was it calculated to “Score” him some points as the Scores nightclub story did a few year ago.

  189. Sue, I’ve been thinking about the possible outcomes for the ministers….

    if Julia wins Albo is assured of his post but what about the others who may all have been leaking to the press?

    If Kevin wins some of the most talented ministers have said they will not serve in his Cabinet.

    Working out the rights and wrongs of that attitude has me whacked atm as well 😦

    In the end Albo’s decision was a pragmatic poll driven decision as much as any moral righteousness, which is understandable on his part in that he, like all of them doesn’t want Abbott to win, yet he may know something we don’t about who’s really voting for whomever.
    That’s not what I think but it’s possible.

    On the other hand my feeling is that two changes of leader is too many …

  190. Sue, on reflection, I still can’t get my head around the fact that Kevin Rudd to all appearances was prepared to risk losing the last election by leaking to Laurie Oakes. If that wasn’t his plan, what the heck was it?

    Did he expect to be drafted back in as Leader during the election campaign?

    What did he Oakes say so smugly at that National Press Club… “you should look closer to home”.

  191. Did anyone watch Laurie Oakes today. I got the impression he really supported Mr. Rudd anymore. He took him to task on the faceless men and fractions, which I believe is stupidity that is coming from Rudd.

    Rudd appears to have lost it in my opinion.

    I believe it is anger and the inability to accept he was not the success he believes himself to be, that he, like Mr.Abbott is obsessed with getting rid of the PM. Judgement goes out the windows.

    All the successes are his, the failures the PM.

    As Riley said, he is all over the place.

  192. Except for Mr. Albanese, the ministers will not be missed.

    Sorry, Martin, this time you should have listened to your brother, sometimes he can be right. I damn sure your other brother will say, I told you so.

  193. Gillard is down 6% Abbott down 5%

    Labor party vote up. That is the vote that counts.

    I expect this to continue.

    A LABOR government tearing itself apart amid bitter recriminations and damaging revelations of faults in policy and personnel has managed to get what all Labor MPs have spent months hoping for – a primary vote of 35 per cent in the Newspoll.

    At the same time, Tony Abbott’s personal standing has taken a hit.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/finally-split-party-turns-the-polls-around/story-e6frg75f-1226282097249

  194. Is Abbott so hot? The PM is down Mr. Abbott is down Labor up

    How is this good for Abbott.

    Who has the biggest ego or their head in sand, Mr. Rudd or Mr. Hawker?

    Mr. Rudd will be an ordinary backbencher, sitting on her back bench, waiting to be conscripted. All the messiah has to do is sit and wait.

    Despite the myths about the influence of unions on the Labor caucus, what really motivates me and my colleagues is representing Australia’s workers and improving their lives, regardless of who runs the government.

    In the end the decision will be made by 103 elected Labor members of Parliament. I don’t envy their position.

    and

    There is a massive contrast between the spectacle transfixing Canberra insiders and what I’m hearing as I travel round the country. Most people are baffled and disappointed at their leaders and feel their concerns are not being listened to.

    There is little support for an Abbott Government, but we run the risk of Tony Abbott slipping into Government like ice skater Stephen Bradbury’s Winter Olympics gold medal – untested and unexamined – if Labor’s infighting continues.

    and

    The simple premise of these business groups is that what is good for their profits is good for Australia. Forget fairness, forget work/life balance just look at the bottom line.

    Business has a right to put its views, but we need a government with the strength to stand up to the pressures imposed by the big end of town and make decisions that are genuinely in the nation interest.

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/while-labor-self-immolates-workers-want-answers/

  195. Unbelievable.

    Today’s events are what the GG is here for.

    Telegraph

    GOVERNOR-General Quentin Bryce has flown out of the country for the week despite the potential for Australia’s worst constitutional crisis in almost four decades.

    Ms Bryce left Australia yesterday morning for a five-day tour of New Zealand ahead of the extraordinary challenge to the leadership of Prime Minister Julia Gillard today and the volatile situation if Kevin Rudd wins and had to form a minority government.

    and

    A spokeswoman for Ms Bryce yesterday said the trip was a long-planned state visit and that NSW Governor Marie Bashir, as the most senior state governor, had replaced her as administrator of the head of state’s office.

    “We fly back into Sydney on Thursday night,” a spokeswoman for Ms Bryce told The Daily Telegraph from Auckland. “We don’t expect any issues. It was long-planned.”

    and

    But the spokeswoman would not comment on whether Ms Bryce had asked for legal advice on Mr Rudd winning, having to renegotiate with the independents and asking her to form a minority government. “We don’t comment on political issues,” the spokeswoman said.

    One constitutional law expert, who did not wish to be named, said that while Ms Bryce may only be a few hours flight away it was a strange decision.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/governor-general-quentin-bryce-takes-her-leave-in-a-crisis/story-e6freuy9-1226282121377

  196. Cu, you’re wrong there. What is currently happening is a contest for the leadership of the Labor Party which has nothing whatsoever to do with the role of the Governor General.

  197. Min, yes the vote of the caucus does not normally mean that the GG should change her plans.

    There is are dangers. that if Mr. Rudd was to win, could lead to a constitutional crisis.

    Yes the deputy could swear him in. This is what would occur in normal times.

    This is not normal times. We have a minority government with a narrow margin.

    There is no guarantee that the GG would accept Mr. Rudd as PM without a guarantee he had the numbers.

    The PM has reserved power not to do this.

    She could call on either Mr. Abbott or Ms. Gillard to call an election. She could appoint who she likes to give her advice.

    In this void, a no confidence vote launched by Mr. Abbott could succeed.

    I am not saying this will happen. I am saying it is not beyond the bounds of imagination that things could go wrong today.

    It is the primary role of the GG to settle things such as this. Her trip to NZ is a secondary role.

    The GG could and should postpone her travels for a few hours.

    If the numbers are as reported, nothing should happen.

  198. With the ides of march (15/3/2012) it is worth reflecting on the state of the Liberal party. Just watched Turnbull on the ABC and this quote sprang to mind:

    Caesar:
    Let me have men about me that are fat,
    Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look,
    He thinks too much; such men are dangerous.

    With Abbott plunging in the polls a Liberal Party leadership challenge is O.N. to phara-phrase the ABC’s Mark Simpleton.

  199. And of course this afternoon the Labor Party collective will have it’s Kumbaya moment where they kiss and makeoutup. Sitting around the camp fire and singing devotional songs
    (note any similarity of the redheaded chipmonk to Julia Gillard is purely
    intentional.)

  200. This is what else the parliament is doing today.

    9.35am: From Malcolm Farr in Canberra: By the way, the House of Representatives today will from noon consider social security legislation and two bills to help the Northern territory, plus a continued debate on a bill to help fund the fees of vocational, educational and training courses. Plus, Green Adam Bandt will introducing a bill today to help the Victorian nurses resolve their pay dispute. “Once Labor sorts their mess out, I hope they support my bill,’’ Mr Bandt tweeted today

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/live-blog-the-rudd-gillard-leadership-showdown/

  201. 8.35am: From Malcolm Farr in Canberra: Today is expected to confirm that Kevin Rudd can never win a leadership ballot unless Julia Gillard gives her support. He had a sort-of leadership bid against Simon Crean in early 2003 and a real go late in 2003. He pulled out of the latter because he didn’t have the numbers. He tried again in 2005 after Mark Latham’s resignation and again pulled out before the ballot. Rudd defeated Kim Beazley in 2006 when Julia Gillard switched her votes to him. This time she will not be anywhere as generous. As Latham said in a recent column, “The first thing is Gillard can count and he can’t.”

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/live-blog-the-rudd-gillard-leadership-showdown/

  202. Tony Wright says that a recount hardly seems worthwhile but the story now is that a recount is happening!

    Albo has had a ‘pit stop’…..there is another much overused word floating around but let’s not go there…

    The returning officer says it’s 71 to 31

  203. Pingback: URL

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