Open forum: what have been the great political moves?

During the relatively short time I’ve had more than a passing interest in politics I’ve seen some great political moves that have either won or swayed elections, or some that will be forever remembered as a great policy initiative.

Some of those that altered the mood of the electorate may not have been ethical, but were great moves just the same.  The master himself, John Howard will be remembered for a couple.  The Tampa incident in 2001 and his claim in 2004 that under a Labor Government we would witness skyrocketing interest rates certainly bore political fruit for him.

Hawke’s decision to float the Australian dollar and Keating’s introduction of compulsory superannuation were definite winners.

On the State scene,  South Australia’s premier Don Dunstan’s decision, on the eve of an election, to distance himself from Gough Whitlam who at the time was having difficulties with his prime ministership, was the move that political commentators suggest got him over the line.  Before that, he was considered doomed.

Anyway, I won’t say too much.  Best I leave that to you good people.  Can you think of any?

171 comments on “Open forum: what have been the great political moves?

  1. Bob Hawke’s decision to grant asylum to thousands of Chinese students resident in Australia following the Tiananmen Square massacre.

  2. In the light of the descent into anarchy that the Carbon Price ‘debate’ devolved, I would guess that convincing Rudd to put off trying to push through the ETS in the run up the last election may have been the deciding factor in Labor just squeezing over the line.

    Can you imagine the popularity of the Government dropping like it did after their announcement and the resultant barrage of misinformation and spin from those against it in an election campaign?

  3. I don’t like the GST or the way it won support, but you have to admit it was a clever move by Howard the way he won over the Democrats. He also managed to bury the Democrats in one swipe.

  4. I don’t think Rudd’s apology to the Stolen Generation did him any harm, at the time. The fears that Howard had earlier expressed would be unlocked never eventuated. It was one of the most moving days ever witnessed in our Parliament.

  5. Hence, Roswell, lying can be considered a great political move if you can get away with it.

    That means then that the greatest political move I can recall in recent years would be the murdoch papers calling the win for bush against Gore, and everyone else jumping on board.

  6. Fraser’s move in blocking supply was underhand, however politically it was brilliant. I was dirty at the time and consider it one of our lowest moments. No doubt he knew what he was doing.

  7. Tom R, I can’t help but wonder what a better world we’d be living in if those 2001 results hadn’t have been manipulated in Bush’s favour.

  8. Howard’s less than subtle methods, on one hand he labels everyone inspirationals (the greed is good mentality), then seeks to vilify everyone who doesn’t strictly conform, be it refugees, single mums, the unemployed. Thereby encouraging an us versus them mentality.

  9. Therefore, Min, Tony Abbott’s decision to hop out of the water moments before a shark circled the other day was a truly magnificent move. Clearly his best yet.

  10. Mine is the moves that Mr. Whitlam took to give increased benefits to single mothers that allowed them choices.

    Unmarried mothers where given the choice to keep their babies. Most did.

    The large institutions such as St Anthony’s at Concord, were emptied over night.

    I went there to choose my brother in 1952. There were hundreds of baby available.

    It also allowed those who were divorced or widowed to care for their families. Many woman at that time where forced to put the children in care.

    There was a big industry, run by the government and churches caring for these children. Low pay at the time added to their woes.

    Women have much to thank Mr. Whitlam for.

    No fault divorce came a close second.

  11. Cu, knowing that Whitlam was going to do away with national service helped win my vote.

    Now I’d be quite happy for it to be re-introduced.

  12. Migs, do you think it would be productive or make any difference. If your wish is granted, I do hope it is for all, not a birthday lottery.

    What about Mr Gorton voting himself out of office after a tied vote.

  13. Pip, the Opposition does not have the numbers or power to block anything.

    They are unlikely to have the ability in the near or foreseeable future

    All they have is wishful thinking.

  14. I was thinking that not just bigger issues such as Tampa have the ability to change the course of history, smaller things as well.

    Consider the Mark Latham handshake. The polls indicated that Latham was a shoo in to beat Howard, but then the press went rampant about Big Bully Latham muscling poor little Johnny. I can say it now..and loudly FFS, it was a handshake!!

    Mind you, since that time Latham has confirmed that he is indeed a sheep short in the top paddock.

  15. Min, it could also be said that Howard stiffened his arm to force Latham to move forward, either way I’m glad they’re no longer in the Parliament.

  16. What about Mr Gorton voting himself out of office after a tied vote.

    That showed some honour and decorum – something that is usually missing from politics in the 21st century sadly.

  17. Min @ 2.33pm, also ‘a few cents short of a dollar’, ‘not the full quid’ and,
    ‘a little bit not so’. 😀

    A bit like another who features regularly on these pages… you whistle and I’ll point….he likes to get around in a state of undress. 😯

  18. Mind you, since that time Latham has confirmed that he is indeed a sheep short in the top paddock.

    Agree, but the violent handshake which actually almost throws John Howard off his feet was a good indicator of the fuse simmering beneath.

  19. Latham also made the mistake of trying to be too nice. In a private meeting just out from the election which was attended by a relative, one of Latham’s Shadow Ministers suggested that Latham play dirty like Howard. Latham is alleged to have responded: “I refuse to stoop to that c***’s low standards”.

  20. Shane, I suppose that a vigorous handshake could have thrown Howard off balance. However, for once in a blue moon a media beatup story turned out to be perfectly accurate.

  21. I loved that handshake.

    Mr. Howard had it coming for a long time.

    It used to irk me every time Mr. Howard took hold of anyones hand.

    The handshake was for the camera and nothing more.

  22. Like he broke the arm of that taxi driver.

    The one that was off work for months but never sought any compensation or legal action.

    I find that amazing, as I am sure there would have been many Liberal lawyers that would have taken his case on.

  23. It’s not always the big moves or announcements that decide an election or swing the odd voter or two.

    Obama had intended to campaign for less funding for NASA and for that money to be put into education, until it was pointed out this could cost him Florida, a crucial state. I think he would have won anyway.

  24. Bob Hawke gets further ticks from me for the World Heritage Properties Conservation Act 1983 and the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 which outlawed sex discrimination in the workplace.

    I remember the last one well, certain males of that type started to refuse to stand up for even elderly women on the train..with a sneer they would say, you want equal rights, then you can stand.

  25. I wonder if saying ‘yes’ sometimes instead of the constant ‘no’ might paint a politician in a more positive light.

  26. Roswell, or even a ‘no’ followed by an explanation of how it could be done better. A difference of opinion is of course to be encouraged as it stimulates ideas and encourages improvement. However the only thing that Tony Abbott seems capable of is ‘no’ – Abbott therefore achieves nothing, no debate and no improvements.

  27. I just came across a quote which seems very appropriate:

    Benjamin Franklin: Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain
    And most do.

  28. Very true. Anyone can complain, whinge and criticise.

    It takes a clever person to give informed criticism.

    A sensible person give reasons and evidence why something is wrong.

    It takes a wiser one to offer a solution.

    I believe that Mr. Menzies said something along the lines, that a opposition had to do more than criticise. They had to present as an alternate government.

    The only message that the man who drives semis gives, is that everything the government does is wrong and he will undo all when he gets into power.

    We generally do not know why things are bad, except that they came from labor.

    We do not know what he stands for.

    We do not know what else he intends to do, after he finishes his demolition of four or more years of Labor government.

    We do not know how much this demolition is going to cost.

    I do believe it will not come cheaply to the economy or the taxpayer.

  29. Mr. Menzies was very clever.

    He opposed what Mr. Caldwell proposed before the election.

    After the election he then proceeded to put some of Labor’s promised into operation.

    In other words, he did not seem to believe that all wisdom was found in the party he founded.

    Today there seems to be a belief aboard that you have to accept all from the party you support and reject all from the one you do not.

    This is plain silly and does not make sense. No one side has all the answers.

  30. Cu, and even for those who believe such things as dismantling the NBN..can Abbott be trusted to do any of it. It is absolutely guaranteed that Abbott will (or perhaps it’s ‘would have’) turn out to be Australia’s worst Prime Minister.

    He has neither the vision nor the passion for any issues, he stands for nothing except self-promotion. And in the end he will also let down all of his supporters when it is discovered that almost none of his promises are possible.

  31. The best political move was making Tony Abbott leader of the Liberals. He knocked off Kevin Rudd and now he’s showing Juliar up for the flipflop prime minister that she is. Abbott is a conviction politician who knows how the game is played and you lot here better had better get used to the idea that he will be Australia’s next prime minister.

  32. LOL – That’s the best joke I’ve heard this year Garfield. You must work as a professional comedian, surely 🙄

  33. Bacchus then prove me wrong. That’s the trouble with you lot all that you can do is ridicule other people’s opinions so give me some facts and I’ll start listening to you.

  34. Yes indeed, it was a good move making Abbott leader. The Liberals have managed to produce the lowest rating opposition leader in history. 😯

  35. Miglo, I’m not Bolt fan but I can’t see how you can call Tony Abbott a failure when according to the polls he’s a certainty to be our next prime minister.

    Who cares about Abbott’s personal ratings, or are you saying that every prime minister has to be popular. I thought that you lot were against a presidential style popularity contest.

  36. Garfield, the drover’s dog could be the next PM if it had the Murdoch ltd news machine supporting it the way it is supporting the Coalition!

  37. “You Lot”, wasn’t it the Mining Council that played the biggest part in Rudd’s downfall.

    Lobbyists rule. Currently Reith and Corrigan working hard, along with pubs and Clubs.

  38. Pip, I have no idea where you might have heard the term before. Your visitations to other blogs have no interest to myself, that is unless your intention is to bring back some useful information.

    Yawn, let’s blame the Murdoch press. How cute, how incredibly trite.

  39. Abbott has a few convictions.
    The first is that he should be P.M..
    The second is that he can get away with anything & still be supported.
    No doubt there are a couple of esoteric faith based convictions of the sort that involve opening your tract of choice to the page that says it’s OK for YOU to do whatever…

    Us lot are reluctantly getting used to the idea that he might be the next P.M.
    The rest of the country will have a bit of trouble getting used to him too because what they think they see ‘aint what they’ll get.

  40. I lay claim to the comment at 1.15
    Don’t know how the name got scrambled.
    Probably the fault of the unions, maybe Gough Whitlam or Jack Lang?

  41. P.S
    Curiouser & curiouser. I put up a comment at 1.15, the name was scrambled & now it’s gone entirely. Disregard all this, I think.

  42. Rudd I will admit did well against Nelson and Turnbull, but he started to flounder against Tony Abbott. Abbott was just too quick and slick for the likes of Rudd. So they knifed Rudd thinking that the redhead could do a better job.

  43. No Garfield or whatever your name is, “you lot” has appeared on this site many times.

    No, I don’t visit other blogs and carry back their trash to this site.

  44. Bob, I just had a check out the back and twas the ‘t’ in front of your email address what done it. Time to cut those fingernails 😉

    As this was a ‘new’ email address, you comment went into moderation. Just let me know and I’ll fix it and put it through.

  45. Tony Abbott won’t even be the parliamentary leader of the Lieberal party come the next election, let alone PM 😆

    Tony is going to face some real scrutiny this year, and, as usual, will come up well short. Look for many more “head-nodding” and silent moments, so much so that the true embarressment the “conviction” politician really is, will become too much even for the “do and say anything for power” Lieberal party…

  46. The only time Abbott went up against Rudd directly outside Parliament was in their debate on Health. He got creamed. This government is being taken apart by vested interests through their media agencies. Abbott with his quasi psychopathic ability for vicious criticism & one liners has appeared at the right time for them.

  47. Pip, it’s a common usage term. Do you have an issue with this. And so my opinions to you are ‘trash’.

    Listen up girlie, the topic is an Open Forum therefore I assume that all opinions even those which others don’t agree with will be tolerated. The author Miglo’s topic is great political moves and I’ve stated my opinion. In fact the author Miglo himself stated that John Howard made some great political moves.

  48. “Conviction politician” – that’s the real killer punch line of your jokes Garfield. Tony Abbott has performed more backflips than you’ll see in the gymnastics at the Olympics in London this year 😆

  49. And typical of the “born to rule” class, no-one can dare to challenge or disagree with those stated opinions 🙄

  50. Min at 1.26
    Thanks, I’ll be more careful with what I press in future.
    Bung the comment in if you think it’s worth reading.

  51. “Abbott is a conviction politician who knows how the game is played”

    Garfield you are one hundred percent correct.

    Mr. Abbott is convinced that he was born to be PM.

    How does he know this? His parents said he would either be pope or PM.

    As he failed in his attempt in the religious community, the only option is to be PM.

    What exactly has the PM flip plopped on.

    What concerns me that he has revealed no indication of what he will do when he achieves his rightful place in history.

    All we know is that he intends to be one of the greatest demolitionist in history.

    We know from his history as a minister, he was more interested in taking away rights, especially those of women, than building.

    Please Garfield tell me what his convictions are, as I have missed any he has put forwarded.

    Maybe we need to blame the media for that, or maybe he has none, except saying no and winning.

    To win, he appears to believe anything goes.

    His convictions include the ” END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS”.

  52. Yes, Garfield please give us some facts to back up what Mr. Abbott’s convictions are.

    While you are at it, some facts that back up the allegation that the PM has flip flopped.

    You have only made allegations with nothing to backup what you say.

  53. Bacchus, isn’t it all to do with interpretation of terminology. I’m going to ignore your attempts at put downs. I’m not here to do eye rolls, but to listen to other people’s opinions.

    I think that Tony Abbott is successful and that he will continue to be successful. He isn’t stupid or else he would not be where he is today.

  54. I was wondering if Garfield has any examples of this ‘conviction’.

    So far, yabot has had almost every position on every subject.

    Never would he have paid parental leave. Now Labors is not as good as the one he has not yet promised on paper.

    First, he wanted a Carbon Tax, then he didn’t. (Gillard never did, and always wanted what we have, the Carbon Price)

    First he wants to save the Murray, then he doesn’t (it depends on who is talking too at the time.

    Do mine, Don’t mine.

    It is always dependant on who his current audience is.

    I could almost write his speech for if he was in front of a Holden production line, and it wouldn’t resemble what is coming out of him at the moment.

    He is aptly named the ‘weather vane’

  55. Roswell, I think not.

    If so, this version believes he has a sense of humour and is good at satire.

    I have a feeling it is a fledgling comedian testing out gags.

    He could prove me wrong by coming back with some facts or evidence to back up his remarks.

    He demands that from us, but gives none himself.

  56. Tom R, so what. He might be a weather vane but he is a successful one. Miglo the author of this topic acknowledged that John Howard was successful by the same tactics.

    There is not a politician alive who does not want to get themselves elected by fair means or foul. Gillard herself promised only a few days before Rudd was rolled that she had no aspirations for the leadership. Now explain that one to me.

  57. He isn’t stupid or else he would not be where he is today.

    That’s highly debatable.

    Perhaps if the msm put him under any kind of pressure.

    Oh wait, one did once.

    Whatever happened to Mark Riley? I don’t see him around much these days.

  58. Catching up, I think that you might have caught me out. A canny lady and that is to be sure.

    My facts and evidence are that Gillard is struggling whereas Abbott’s leadership is secure. Prove me wrong.

  59. He might be a weather vane but he is a successful one.

    Whatever happened to ‘conviction politician’?

    I’m not denying he is successful.

    I’m arguing that, on his talents alone, he wouldn’t rate a mention. It is the cheering of the media, and deliberate ignoring of his many failings by them, that allows him this success.

    Mind you, I hope they do not change him. In the long game, people cannot ignore his immense stupidity for too long.

    Wonder how he is going with his b-double license by the way 😉

  60. Tom, precisely. The media has given Abbott a free ride. The writing has been on the wall since late last year that Abbott must produce more than just photo ops this coming year.

    Hockey has already thrown a pinkie about suggestions that $500 squillion be returned back to the car industry. Pity poor old Hockey trying to balance Abbott’s books.

  61. Tom R, you are blaming the media. So is the media all powerful? Tony Abbott gives the media something to work with, and if you’re a politician like it or not you have to know how to play the game.

    Julia can stand up on the podium all that she likes making boring speeches but it aint goin to make the 7 o’clock news.

  62. Tom, yes indeed that certainly came to mind. Hockey trying to balance Abbott’s books, very akin to Costello trying to balance the books of John Howard.

    Actually..worse..at least Howard had some sense of protocol, whereas Abbott doesn’t give a stuff.

  63. Garfield I do not believe that the PM said she has no aspirations for leadership. It was clear that was her aim.

    What the PM said that she was not challenging at that time.

    There is no evidence that she was.

    From all that has been aired in public of the events leading up to Mr. Rudd being deposed, there is no evidence that the PM orchested the challenge.

    That being so, I believe one has no choice but to believe that the PM was telling the truth and that she was ask to takeover at the last moment.

    The PM is no fool and would have been very aware that she was taking on a poison chalice.

    it would have been in her interest to wait, if she had a choice.

    Garfield that should answer your question, but I suspect you will not accept the explanation.

    The whole or most of the Labor Caucus lost confidence in Mr. Rudd, leading to his downfall.

    Remember Mr. Rudd was unable to garner enough votes in his ring around to mount a defence of his position.

    Of course the fairy tale of “she” stabbed him in the back is much more believable to those who hate Labor. Problem is there are no facts to support this version.

    Garfield, I am expecting facts when you dispute what I have written.

    I am also waiting for some evidence that Mr. Abbott is a conviction politician.

    You might find this hard to believe, but I am terrified of Mr. Abbott achieving his destiny in becoming PM.

    I would love some facts or evidence that make me feel less frightened.

  64. It appears Garfield watches the ABC. A wannabe intellectual, perhaps? This is certainly the right blog site then.

  65. So, according to Garfield, we have gone from yabot being a ‘conviction politician’, to yabot being great cos he plays spin.

    Great. I love a country run by three word slogans. NOT!

    If the media is bored by substance, they should all move over to the Entertainment section, else, they can start reporting what is really happening, rather than regurgitating political party lines.

    Maybe Labor should start playing that game (they are always accused of it anyway)

    But sorry, I prefer a leader with substance.

    This is how a journalist should be writing, with an abundance of facts at their disposal.

  66. Garfield, the media says she is struggling.

    Yes, the PM is dealing with difficult situations, but please tell me of any PM that did not.

    The country’s economy is strong, among the best in the world.

    Yes, I agree that she is not a miracle worker, that waves her hands and everything is done.

    What is the PM struggling with.

    Please not the polls, they only tell us how popular one is.

    Being popular does not necessary mean being right.

  67. I’m going to ignore your attempts at put downs

    Typical rabid right-wing projection – Was it me who said “Listen up girlie, the topic is an Open Forum…“?

    And I’m the one attempting put downs? GMAFB.

  68. Most Liberal Prime Ministers have been conviction politicians. Cold, stereotypical, driven by politics alone. They lack human qualities.

  69. Catching up, you say that Gillard had no leadership aspirations. So how is it that she ended up leader, explain that one to me.

    What you are suggesting to me is that Gillard was only an innocent bystander who played no part whatsoever in Rudd’s downfall. Surely that’s a bit naive.

  70. Min, many are challenging him on the Murray Valley Water plans.

    Mr. Robb, along with a couple of backbenchers are developing policy that appears to be in conflict with Mr. Abbott.

    I have this funny nightmare that Mr. Robb might like his job.

    We have Mr. Right on the sidelines challenging Mr. Abbott.

    Same gender marriage is a sleeper.

    The biggest threat to Mr. Abbott is IR. Many in and outside the party want this to be the big issue at the next election.

    It is an illusion that Mr. Abbott is secure in his position. If challenged, he has very little space to move.

    Personally, I would rather be in the PM’s place.

  71. Cu, I’ve said this before but my guess is that there will be a Turnbull/Robb challenge this year.

    However, it’s a wait and see at the moment..especially with regard to Hockey. Will old Joe toe the line and keep making excuses for Abbott or will he choose to align himself with Turnbull.

    I think that Turnbull eventually will be courted by both Robb and Hockey. Hockey wants the leadership but will settle for the treasury position. Robb considers himself far more capable than Hockey, and he is probably right. Turnbull will choose the one more ‘saleable’…my guess is that it will be Hockey.

  72. you say that Gillard had no leadership aspirations

    Dear oh dear. Comprehension not real good either Garfield? CU actually said exactly the opposite 🙄

  73. Garfield @ 2.03pm, if Abbott wasn’t so stupid and lacking in negotiating skills he would be the PM right now!

  74. Catching up, you say that I won’t accept the answers. Why do you think that, I’ve already stated that I’m listening to everyone’s opinions.

    It’s not a fairy tale, it’s a fact. Gillard took over the leadership from Rudd, now that’s a fact isn’t it. Gillard might not have been the instigator but she was a party to the crime.

    What if Gillard had said no to the power brokers, would Rudd still be Prime Minister. I think that Rudd would have given it his best shot and gone down fighting, which is a far more honorable thing than what Gillard did to him.

    Gillard now pays the price. If you looks at the polls before Gillard’s take over she had a high approval rating, it’s gone downhill ever since. It was a bad political move on Gillard’s part. Before the last election there was a lot of speculation that Gillard would take over during Labor’s 2nd term. She should have waited, even if it meant being Leader of the Opposition.

  75. Pip, I apologise if I offended. Maybe the term means a different thing to you than to me. I’m a bit of an old fart, so when I think of girlie I think of Susan Boyle. The judge called her girlie, to me it’s a lady who proves the critics wrong.

  76. Garfield, what crime. The PM is appointed by the vote of the Labor Caucus.

    The Caucus lost confidence and removed him. Where is the crime. This has been the practice since Federation.

    According to your reasoning, Mr. Turnbull should never had been challenged.

    This is how most or all Labor leaders whether in government or opposition have been appointed.

    The only man I can recall that resigned as PM was Mr. Menzies.

    As I said, it was a fallacy that the PM stabbed Mr. Rudd in the back. It was a fallacy that anyone did.

    The simple fact is that he lost the confidence of those who placed him in the position.

  77. Roswell he might belong in the shadows but he has no intention of staying there.

    Garfield, I said that the PM has always said she had the aspiration to be PM. I do not believe she was ready when she took the role over.

  78. Min @ 2.59pm and Roswell @3.03pm,

    Robb is reportedly very busy, if one can believe what is in the papers 😯

    Coalition policy primed for early poll
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/coalition-policy-primed-for-early-poll/story-e6frgd0x-1226243922430

    NOT very many Australians know that Andrew Robb chairs the federal Coalition policy development committee, with its deputy chairman being the former adviser to Peter Costello and now Victorian member for Casey, Tony Smith.
    This important committee has been working overtime to ensure the Tony Abbott-led opposition will go to the next federal election with a policy platform that adds up politically, philosophically and fiscally. Systematically but unobtrusively and in the main under the political radar, Robb and Smith have been dotting their policy i’s and crossing their costing t’s.

    They’ll be right …their Liberal accounting firm will ‘audit’ their budget costings
    assumptions.

  79. Catching up, you say that the caucus lost confidence in Kevin Rudd. I don’t entirely agree with you, I think that Rudd had a lot more to give and that Gillard took over prematurely.

    I never said that any leader should never be challenged, so stop trying to put words into my mouth.

    Which fallacy Catching up. The Labor Party panicked, Rudd’s approval rating had gone down and they panicked. Gillard has the intelligence to be leader, and a gritty Welsh spirit which I admire but she is still carrying the baggage from the way that Rudd was ousted.

    I am an admirer of Rudd’s and he will probably go down in history as Australia’s foremorst Foreign Minister.

  80. No, Bacchus he has answered few questions. He has mainly played played, games with words.

    He maybe a old fart, but I would never say so, as it has little to do with the debate on this site.

    Why is Mr. Abbott a conviction politician???????

    That is the issue that Grafield raised.

  81. Yes. Mr. Rudd appears to be a good FM. Who has said he is not.

    Yes the PM is carrying baggage. I said that she would have been aware of this when she accepted the challenge. Is that baggage her fault or fair, I believe not.

  82. Bacchus, it will not be answered, because there is no evidence to back the claim. it was raised by Garfield to attack the PM.

    He now needs to say why he believes the PM has no convictions as well.

    I would also like to know where the PM is struggling. I know the media tells us every day, but never give any examples.

  83. Catching up, I plead guilty to using the term ‘conviction politician’ to stir the pot.

    The prime minister is struggling because if she continues on her current path she is going to lose the next election.

    It’s no good going all airy fairy and saying that sometime, somehow people will wake up to themselves and see all the good that she is doing.

    I didn’t NOT attack the Prime Minister and so once again words are put into my mouth. Tell me where I did.

  84. Pip, clearly you have no sense of humor. Susan Boyle smiled at being called girlie, yet you attack me for making the same statement.

    You show me once where I have made a personal attack against you. I did state the term girlie which I apologised for and explained that this was not, in my repertoir an insult but akin to Susan Boyle, who also made mincemeat of the critics.

    You seem intent on casting me in the role of the bad guy.

  85. Garfield, winning the next election should not be the main objective.

    Doing the right thing, even if it makes one unpopular is more important.

    Mr. Whitlam is still seen by many as the worse PM this country has seen. I do not agree, other names come to mind as far as I am concerned.

    Now many of the things that Mr. Whitlam introduced in spite of a hostile senate and two elections in less than three years, , survive to this day.

    Many change the face of Australian society.

    The PM has two choices.

    The PM can put winning the next election to the forefront, doing nothing.

    The PM can go ahead with introducing as much of Labor’s platform and let the future take care of itself.

    At least the PM will not be remembered as doing nothing.

    In spite of the media and the Coalitions outcry there has been much achieved and more to be done.

    Mr. Abbott has not been able to stop the PM from getting her programme passed into legislation. Mr. Abbott has not had one win in the parliament.

    In spite of the most numerous calls for censure in the history of parliament, Mr. Abbott has not laid one hand on the PM.

    All this in spite of the fact that this government does not have a majority in either house.

    All Mr. Abbott has been able to do is run around the country, jumping up and down saying no.

    Garfield, you have admitted you came to this site to stir up a bit of shit/fun.

    Please do not be upset that we do not laid down, role over and say tickle our stomach.

    We will all I am sure, treat your comments with the respect we think they deserve.

    It is OK that you do not agree with you.

    We hold the same belief for ourselves.

    That is it OK that we may not agree with you.

  86. “It’s no good going all airy fairy and saying that sometime, somehow people will wake up to themselves and see all the good that she is doing.”

    I did not say or suggest this. I believe in the present climate, it is unlikely that many will wake up.

    That does not make the PM wrong.

    You are now putting words into our mouths.

    There are not many on this site that are not aware of where Labor is at in the public eye.

    There are none that would say that Labor has not made mistakes, Politicians are human and do not have crystal balls.

    Often wrong choices are made.

    There have been a lot more good choices made, that the public seem unaware of.

    Much of the criticism is unfair and unwarranted.

    Many of the allegations do not stand up to scrutiny. I will change that to few of the allegations stand up to scrutiny.

    Garfield, I am quite happy to spend all day replying to your facts, that is if you put any up.

    I am quite happy to respond to your unfounded allegations as well.

  87. I plead guilty to using the term ‘conviction politician’ to stir the pot.

    Then takes umbrance to

    I’m allergic to your bullshit.

    Sorry, maybe Pip was just stirring the pot right back at ya’ 😉

    Maybe if you really want to get involved in a ‘discussion’ Garfield, try this

  88. “Catching up, I plead guilty to using the term ‘conviction politician’ to stir the pot.”

    I took this statement to mean that you came to the site to have a little fun or stir up some shit. Sorry if I have taken the wrong meaning.

    I was being generous when I added fun.

    Are you saying that Mr. Abbott is not a conviction politician.

    I have already agreed with you that he is.

    Mr. Abbott has the conviction that he was born to rule, either as pope or PM.

    Naturally Ms. Boyle smiled at the judges. She had just won a reward for singing and was a little out of place on the stage. The truth maybe is that she did not even hear the slur.

    It is a slur, as Ms. Boyle is a mature woman, not a girlie. At least she is not his girlie.

  89. Well well. I’ve checked Garfield’s ISP address against that of the known trolls/snipers and it doesn’t match any of them. He/she is for real. 😯

    My guess is he/she is one of the right wingers from Facebook who lurk the lefty sites and follow the links provided.

  90. Catching up, which just goes to show that it’s not good to jump to conclusions about people until you get to know them.

    The fact is that the one judge called Susan Boyle ‘girlie’ before she even started to sing. Since then I’ve called women who I respect girlie. As I’ve already said, to me a girlie is a woman who does the unexpected, same as Susan Boyle. This might seem trite to some, but fck’em it’s my opinion and until someone tells me otherwise I’ll keep on expressing my opinion.

  91. Miglo, thank you for that. I was wondering why I bothered.

    Tom R, I arrived stated my opinion, was immediately accused of being somebody else.

    Abbott has made a great deal of mileage out of being a conviction politician. You might not like his convictions but he stands his ground. Miglo said it himself and this is the topic, some things are successful whether or not you like it.

    Abbott IS successful and the evidence is that he is still leader of the opposition.

    Anyway, obviously time for me to bow out.

  92. Tom R, no I’m not into lying I’m calling the play from how I see it. Clearly this is unacceptable on this blog. I was expecting lively debate and all that I received was crp with the exception of Catching up.

    I’m outa here. I’ll keep reading but the blogmasters should sit up and take notice about how newcomers are treated. Bye for now.

  93. Garfield, that is OK, just be aware that not all women like to be called girlie.

    Do not be taken in by the smile. In embarrassing situations like this, I sometimes smile, to hide my anger, while thinking what a fool are you.

    “it’s not good to jump to conclusions about people until you get to know them”

    You have not told me if I jumped to the wrong conclusion. You have not said what you meant by the statement.

    Until then I will believe what you said, that is you came here to stir the pot. whatever that means.

    Sorry, I can only go on what I read.

    I suggest the same applies to the gander as well as the goose.

  94. You might not like his convictions but he stands his ground.

    As I said Garfield. Perhaps you can show us some evidence of this ‘conviction’

    It may difficult, particularly as you also readily admit to him being a ‘weather vane’ 😯

    I have no problem with dissenting opinions. I have issues with people who offer those ‘dissenting opinions’ in a less than honest manner.

  95. Catching up, if you take umbrage at being called girlie when I likened it to Susan Boyle then it’s you who are trying to make an issue out of one word, not me.

  96. Garfield you have certainly jumped to conclusions about all here without getting to know them.

    I suspect you know us all very well and nothing you have said is accidental.

    If you do not like being challenged, I suggest you think before pushing the send button.

    That is all that has happened. We have reacted to your comments.

  97. Tom, I said conviction, I didn’t say morals. Abbott might have one but obviously doesn’t have the other.

  98. Garfield what the problem. Have faith in your belief. You said you have no problem with the word.

    I was just reminding you that many women do.

    If you want to impose that on the women around you, that is their problem.

    You bought the word up. Are you saying we are amiss in saying what we think about the use of girlie.

    You have accuse us of being airy fairy etc., Please expect us to reply in like.

    You set the tone for our replies.

    I enjoy a good banter so do not feel that you have insulted us, or that we are thin skinned enough to be hurt. This is not the case.

  99. Catching up, I take offense at your statement ‘if you want to impose that on the women around you’.

    I said, that to me the term girlie brought with it an image of those women who did the unexpected.

    Tom, I said conviction not morals. Abbott is a conviction politician, he is against gay marriage, he wants women to be virgins until they marry. That’s convictions. I never said that they were good convictions. 😉

  100. Don’t worry folks, I’ll be back. It’s been a pleasure meeting you all and I’ve enjoyed the debate.

    From this I’ve learnt a lesson, to be careful with my words because on this blog, it’s hell to pay if you get it wrong ;).

    I think that we all get a bit lazy at times repeating the well worn phrases such as JuLiar and Tabbott and left is equally as guilty as right.

  101. Garfield, I do not care if you take offence. I suspect that you would not use the term to anyone you cared about.

    I feel if I have been through this conversation before. It feels like deja vu experience.

    Garfield why would it bother one to be mistaken for someone else

    Surely the reaction would be, who do I remind you of or why do you think that.

    Mr. Abbott has many convictions. He has a new one most days. They are just interchangeable, one for all seasons.

    I am sure he will quickly dump the convictions you have mentioned, if it means becoming PM.

    Another conviction he has and has proven that he believes in, is that children of unmarried mothers should be adopted out.

    He also has shown, he does not think that the male in such situations have any responsibilities.

  102. Catching up, ok fair enough I won’t bother you with further commentary to this blog.

    As far as being mistaken for someone else. Yes it did bother me when Pip immediately put up the link as below. Nice welcome folks.

    http://p.twimg.com/AjF52zYCQAEnqri.jpg:large

    I won’t say the standard byee, because who knows one day you folk might like to debate on real terms instead of just throwing accusations at people who attempt to post their opinions to Miglo’s blog.

  103. might like to debate on real terms</i.

    You mean, where you can argue that someone has convictions, while at the same time agreeing that he is a 'weather vane'

    ROFL again 🙂

  104. You know what I hate about society these days it’s the ROTOFLs and the LOLs. As my daughter said the other day, it’s the old f’rts trying to pretend that they’re in’da’groove man.

  105. You know what I hate about today’s society. People who pretend to enter a conversation legitimately, get busted, then complain about their treatment.

    lol ROFL

  106. Garfield, you do like the term old f’rts. I am suspect that is one thing you are not. Well not a old one.

    Happy to continue the debate. Always open to be convinced that Mr. Abbott does have something going for him.

    Sadly you have not been able to say what.

  107. One of my favorite movies. I know that it’s not deep and meaningful sci fi, but what the heck, who says that aliens can’t be fun too.

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