Who are the whingers? Is this country as badly done by, as the whingers and whiners assert?

We have a country that is travelling well and most are doing better than most elsewhere in the world.

What I have notice, most of the nominations come from the right or media.

“….Surely there should have been a category for Media Whinger of the year, perhaps Newspaper commentariat whinger of the Year, certainly Newspaper Whinger of the Year and Shock Jock whinger of the year, and a sub-category Political whinger of the year for politicians other than Tony Abbott …

Isn’t that the whole point of handicapping favourites?  Wouldn’t Abbott be content with Attack Dog of the Year?  Foxes and day-old chickens a speciality…

http://www.blogotariat.com/node/197379

“……….And so it’s time again for our gala ceremony to announce the Australian Whinger of the Year. I got more than 400 emails from readers last week, most agreeing with my short list of Tony Abbott, the retailer Gerry Harvey, those meddlesome priests George Pell and Fred Nile, and the moaning, mining magnates Twiggy Forrest and Gina Rinehart…………..

……………Tony Abbott does not. Like his mentor John Howard, he plays to our base instincts of greed, selfishness and fear. He wallows in the politics of NO, apeing the hysteria of the shock jocks: we are on the brink of economic disaster; climate change is ”crap”; we are ”threatened” by gays and left-wing social engineering; a flood of ”illegals” is swamping our borders.

We have the ”worst government in our history”, he howls, blithely ignoring Billy McMahon’s Coalition shambles of the 1970s and Arthur Fadden’s wartime conservatives of 1941, who collapsed in a heap after just 40 days in office………………..”

Read more here.

“…THE self-acclaimed left-wing media have not had a good week.

In the UK, the self-righteous Guardian, which Private Eye used to sneer at as “the Grauniad”, has been dragged to confess it was wrong to claim reporters from the now-extinct News Of The World had deleted messages from a missing girl’s mobile phone, leading her parents to believe that she might still have been alive.

The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald reprinted The Guardian’s fabrications. The ABC’s Media Watch jumped onto the bandwagon………..”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/self-righteous-sneerers-caught-in-the-guardians-twisted-web/story-e6frezz0-1226223332923

Yes, according to Ackermann, wrong, wrong.  Nevertheless, is it?

http://www.blogotariat.com/node/197379

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/12/16/uk-newscorp-hacking-murdoch-idUKTRE7BF17420111216

“………….Is James Murdoch Running Out of Denials?…………..”

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/is-james-murdoch-running-out-of-denials/

“…….Yet the public love Akker Dakker. Why at the time of writing, Akker Dakker’s piece had a single, solitary note from a fan, one Peter of Adelaide, who can see the truth as Akker Dakker sees it:

The Left has certainly done very serious damage to Australia. This includes the Age, smh, the ABC and the Guardian. Thanks for exposing more of these disasters.

Indeed it’s simply impossible to calculate the infinite damage The Guardian has done to Australia, but somehow a certified master black belt of whinging like Akker Dakker will find a way …”

http://www.blogotariat.com/node/197379

“…………..JULIA Gillard’s cabinet reshuffle was provoked by her need to look competent, tough and decisive.

Piers’ blog

Instead it has made her look incompetent, weak and indecisive.

She is ending her year looking like a comic book character pulling the rug from under her own feet. Her hold on the party is less than tenuous and disunity is death. Martin Ferguson ducked attempts to have him commit to Gillard’s leadership, saying only that he was loyal to the ALP.

But the real foment is taking place in the senate. While most Australians have little understanding of the upper house, its members do matter, particularly in party politics. Do not forget that the putsches that removed both her predecessor Kevin Rudd and the former opposition leader Malcolm Turnbull had their genesis in the senate – and Labor senators are grumbling…..”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/new-labor-cabinet-but-the-cupboard-still-bare/story-e6frezz0-1226223336500

Is this true; is our PM so weak and incompetent?  Could many of our so-called journalists have imagination that would make four year olds proud.

I get the feeling that the last twelve months have been one of whining and complaining by many.  Whinges that have little connection to reality or what has occurred.

One has to ignore and deny much of what the Gillard government to conclude the media and the Opposition have arrived at.  It is more than being one eyed; one has to be deaf and blind.

Has it been the year of the whingers?  Who are the biggest whingers?

91 comments on “Who are the whingers? Is this country as badly done by, as the whingers and whiners assert?

  1. As it becomes more and more obvious that the Labor Government is not going to fall over and that Julia Gillard has clearly established her authority, the cheerleaders for the Opposition have become more shrill.

  2. Yes Lucy, and are diverting further away from the truth.

    They do not even try to keep to facts, they have gone past misrepresenting. They are just making up stories.

  3. Whingers!!!!
    I can’t resist the opportunity to bang on again about what I see as a long term issue & potential problem for an Abbott government. I’ve said here & elsewhere that the last election was fought over the governance of a country that doesn’t actually exist. A country burdened by intolerable debt, skyrocketing interest rates, massive unemployment & under imminent threat of invasion. All a creation of the whingers. These problems, largely exaggerations of existing issues are intractable because of their size, certainly beyond Abbott’s ability to solve, although he’s assured us he will. People told they deserve more & more handouts, more & more water & fewer & fewer boat arrivals,etc, won’t forget it & will expect Abbott to deliver.
    I think the only option he & his will have is to attempt to create a new country, more accepting of what will be recast as minor issues, whinging will be discouraged & history rewritten to explain the non achievement of what were once easy goals. Good luck with that, although he’ll have the press with its ability to mould opinion behind him. The change will be interesting to watch.

  4. As it becomes more and more obvious that the Labor Government is not going to fall over and that Julia Gillard has clearly established her authority, the cheerleaders for the Opposition have become more shrill.

    This government may not fall over tomorrow but it will fall over at the next election ( because of the incompetence of ALP politicians like Garret, Thompson,

    … it is a left wing government that has become a right wing government … and to believe that Julia Gillard has established ANY authority (and why AUTHORITY? Labor governments in the past have sought democracy and fairness for workers, management and government) …

    … to PRAISE authoritarian leadership panders to dictatorship NOT democracy …

    I’m really liking the look of Turnbull as an alternative Prime Minister … and I’ve NEVER been a fan of Robber Barons!

    Just indicates how bad our politicians have become for me…

  5. TB, you are probably right Labor will be defeated at the next election.

    However, not because of any so called ‘incompetance’. Instead of taking one’s opinions straight from the Murdoch media, if one cares to read the factual data then you would find that Garrett has never been incompetant, but as true readers of the scandal rags would attest..he’s been ‘incompetant’.

    How was Garrett ‘incompetant’? Let me guess..pink batts. Peter Garrett’s accomplishments whilst a Minister. http://www.petergarrett.com.au/982.aspx

    Thompson, Craig..innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.

    Long have we fought against ‘trial by media’, irrespective of the issue, irrespective of the person. This might be interpreted by some as being an apologist for Thompson, not so. I believe in justice and that everyone is entitled to a presumption of innocence until found to be guilty.

    It seems that it’s now ‘politically incorrect’ to state facts, to expect equal scrutiny of Tony Abbott.

  6. Labor might well lose the next election, but not to a worthy winner.

    Abbott has given me absolutely no reason as to why I should vote for him.

    Under an Abbott government this country will become a robber baron’s paradise.

  7. “Under an Abbott government this country will become a robber baron’s paradise.”

    You need look no further than O’Farrell to see what Abbott would be like in power.

    O’Farrell is acquiescing to every major vested interest to the detriment of the NSW people and the long term health of the state. From gambling interests, mining, logging, heavy polluting industries, and the list goes on, O’Farrell is allowing them to have their way, even changing laws to assist them in their greed, all to the cost of the NSW people. So to pay for his lost revenue in kowtowing to the big end he is making the small end pay and suffer whilst the State falls apart around him.

    Where goes O’Farrell goes Abbott, but multiplied.

  8. Also as Abbott has no policies worth mentioning, he can safely say that he will never backflip there being so little to backflip on.

  9. There is suggestion of corruption in the big new building waste depot at Eastern Creek. It appears the devopers are big contributors to the Liberal Party. They have been ordered to clean up another depot.

    “…..Mr Malouf, the self-made millionaire behind Dial a Dump, told The Sun-Herald that he runs a conscientious business and pollution offences this year arose from employees ”breaching strict guidelines and procedures of which they were adequately aware”.

    But it is not the first time. Companies linked to Mr Malouf have been subject to five clean-up orders in the past five years, according to the Office of Environment and Heritage………..

    …………..A spokesman for the Premier, Barry O’Farrell, said he was made aware of the investigations by the OEH before attending the opening party for Mr Malouf’s new venture at the Eastern Creek landfill site on December 8 – a $500,000 celebration that featured 600 guests, acrobats, fireworks and a lion cub.

    Mr O’Farrell’s spokesman said: ”That’s why he went out of his way during his remarks at the opening to say the NSW government has a strong independent environmental regulator and he expects all companies to comply or face the full force of the law.”

    But inquiries by The Sun-Herald have revealed that Mr Malouf – who with his wife has donated almost $40,000 to the Liberal Party in recent years – has not yet been granted a licence to operate the landfill known as the Genesis facility. The application is with the OEH, which is considering it.

    Alexandria Landfill and Boiling are yet to complete the clean-up ordered at the Alexandria sites………………….

    ………………….Mr Malouf hit the headlines last year when photographed attending a $5000-a-head fund-raiser for the Liberal Party, also attended by Mr O’Farrell, at the home of John Symonds. When it was revealed that Mr Malouf, who is also a property developer, had been in attendance, the NSW Labor Party general secretary, Sam Dastyari, referred the $5000 donation to the Electoral Funding Authority for investigation. Labor is yet to learn the result and will ask for an update this week…………..

    ………But inquiries by The Sun-Herald have revealed that Mr Malouf – who with his wife has donated almost $40,000 to the Liberal Party in recent years – has not yet been granted a licence to operate the landfill known as the Genesis facility. The application is with the OEH, which is considering it….”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/pollution-trail-to-megadump-20111217-1ozxi.html#ixzz1gqmszqIN

    Neil where are you?

  10. While overseas I heard nothing but praise for Australia, especially from Americans. Comments such as: what a great economy you have; your dollar is very strong; it’s good to see a country committed to climate change; and Australia has always had a stable government were common.

    The one I heard the most though was a beauty: it’s amazing how you guys held off the GFC.

    It was great to here all this, yet from Australians I heard nothing but whinging. The carbon tax is going to kill us; Gillard will turn us into a Muslim country; Labor can’t manage the economy; Labor are wasteful, blah blah blah.

    And where did people get their views from? The media.

    Overseas they read what a great country Australia is. In Australia the media keeps telling us we are doomed. And that’s why we have become a nation of whiners.

  11. It is interesting exercise to go off shore and read articles about Australia, that bear no resemblance to those in our media. Why would this be so?

  12. Instead of taking one’s opinions straight from the Murdoch media,

    D’ya think! Min!

    My “information” comes from a variety of sources (as you well know) … and I was critcising, Garret, long BEFORE he got silly with SILVER batts … I’m more than capable of making a personal assessment without the assistance of Rupert & Co or should that now be James & Co?

    Re: Garret – he’s a show pony … “I’ll leave Parliament if I’m not in the Cabinet” … (reminds me of, “If I can’t bat first, I’m taking my ball home”) … you can see what he thinks of representing his electorate … (don’t tell me Rudd struck a “deal” when he “asked”, Peter, to stand?) …

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It is interesting exercise to go off shore and read articles about Australia, that bear no resemblance to those in our media. Why would this be so?

    CU – I read a number of USA and UK sites (mostly news based eg Reuters and The Times) and rarely find stories about Australia, especially politics – could you provide me with links to your sources, please?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I see, Bill Shorten, is short odds (couldn’t help myself!) to become a frontrunner for PM soon? Something I mooted twelve months ago … pity he’s tainted with Piggy Howes and Arbib, though …

  13. TB, I have read a couple lately but have not kept a record. They are there, but I will admit not in any great numbers. Some have appeared in the UK and NZ.

    I will note any that come up from now on.

  14. TB, events in Australia certainly don’t fill the front pages of overseas journals, yet the odd story appears here and there and are obviously seen by a few.

    The people overseas I met who knew a bit about us must have read it somewhere.

  15. An exception: after Howard won the 2001 election the front page of one of the English papers announced “Howard wins Australian election in the face of international condemnation of his immigration policies”, or something similar to that.

    When we lose the cricket to England that also makes the front page. :mrgreen:

  16. On the subject of whingers…a good point by youngest yesterday. She said that one thing that annoys her are well to do Australians trying to claim: We are the 99%. Her argument is try the people who have really been left behind, living in poverty.

  17. will note any that come up from now on.

    Look forward to that, CU 🙂

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The people overseas I met who knew a bit about us must have read it somewhere

    er … the internet is world wide … Miggsy … 😉

    Mate, I have rellies in the UK, Holland and France (with whom {whooo .. oo … sounds posh!} I communicate regularly) and they often ask me what’s going on D/Under … I’ve just asked my cousin in the south of England to give me his POV on the euro crisis … he’s the bloke wot predicted riots in the street about three months before they did! (Selfish reason it may influence my super investment decision!) ..

    If you like, I’ll comment here when he does … BTW he’s retired and he’s older’n me … yes. yes, I know, that’s hard to belive … but he knows his stuff … he reckons Cameron’s Conservative government is simply making decisons on ideaology rather than for the country … (eg putting up uni fees — limits access for people from poorer families) …

  18. Min @8.11pm 18/12, if the well off are the 99%, what the hell are they whinging about? They’re obviously not suffering anything but Undeserved Welfare Withdrawal Symptoms.

    A good therapy for them would be 6 months on the dole, followed by 6 months on a gross income of $40K and lower. After that I reckon they might have an entirely different perspective on who’s well off and who isn’t AND who the 99% really is and who works hard. lol

    We have become a nation of whingers, with most of it emanating from the wealthy. I put that down to 11½ years of welfare bribes and an enormous sense of entitlement fostered by the Rodent government.

    Once, people who received a high income would have been insulted and horrified to get welfare. They took pride in being independent and would have looked on unearned and undeserved, government handouts as a sign of failure.

    Likewise people who chose to send their children to expensive private schools. They understood that if they chose not to use the publicly funded education system, it was up to them to stump up the fees and not snivel about it.

    It seems the wealthy are all for choice as long as they don’t have to take financial responsibility for their choices, yet they’re only too willing to kick the poor to death for receiving welfare, labeling them as lazy and unproductive.

    I say, suck it up. As the old saying goes; you made your bed, now lie in it.

    My vote for whingers of the year goes to the very wealthy and those on extremely generous salaries who wouldn’t know if their collective arses were on fire or whether they’re in the oven.

  19. Jane, I agree completely and especially the enormous sense of entitlement. There is also the easy money mentality, just bung it on the credit card and let the future look after itself. The sort of people I loathe are those who max out their credit cards and then whinge about their bills!!

  20. Yes, but unless you recognise that there is a problem then you cannot set about correcting the problem.

    As per Jane:

    I put that down to 11½ years of welfare bribes and an enormous sense of entitlement fostered by the Rodent government.

    It is that very sense of entitlement which makes people scream blue murder about things such as the Flood Levy or a Carbon ‘tax’ when as stated it will add about 5 cents to the price of a sausage.

  21. Patricia, nobody here’s going down without a fight.

    If an election is held tomorrow there’s a strong chance Abbott would win. But it’s not being held tomorrow and I sincerely hope things turn around for the government, popularity wise, over the next two years.

    We’ll keep beating their drum until then.

  22. Migs, I agree. Just because the MSM is currently manipulating public opinion via biased reporting, which is often mentioned on this and other center and left wing blogs, this doesn’t mean that Abbott will be able to maintain his media novelty value for ever.

  23. Min @2.37 & 6.04pm 19/12, I agree completely. The whingers are perpetually whinging about their bills, but none seems to have developed the living within your means mentality nor giving others who are doing it tough a leg up.

    Over the limit on your card, snivel for the government to pick up the tab, cos you work so hard and are such an asset to the country.

    Money for expensive fripperies? Not a problem, but ask them to part with less than the cost of a latte a week and they’re off to pay their accountants 10x the cost of the levy to avoid it! Go figure.

    It wouldn’t do them any harm to practice a spot of spending discipline, like my daughter does. She schedules a set amount each pay to cover rent, utilities and loan payments so that she always has a buffer of at least a month’s rent and other payments in case of disaster.

    What remains is disposable, but instead of taking her card with her when she goes shopping, she gets cash out and leaves the card at home. A very disciplined young woman. And no doubt you have a similar story to tell about your crew.

  24. If you like, I’ll comment here when he does … BTW he’s retired and he’s older’n me … yes. yes, I know, that’s hard to belive … but he knows his stuff … he reckons Cameron’s Conservative government is simply making decisons on ideaology rather than for the country … (eg putting up uni fees — limits access for people from poorer families) …

    TB

    I totally agree with him. Ideology is ruling the Cameron Government and it is ruling the Liberal Party here. The main problem is when the economy

  25. bloody wordpress.

    stet

    The main problem is when the economy slows and we feel our jobs are under threat ( rightly or wrongly) the extreme conservative side of politics comes to the fore.

    Does he think the Cameron Government will be a one term wonder, and also what does he think of the coalition partner and would that partner swap to Labor at the next election, or are they now rusted to the Torys ?.

  26. I know people who like to spend each day as though it’s their last. I prefer to have a Plan B in case it is not.

  27. I’m up in Sydney catching up on some last minute Xmas shopping. My dislike of Sydney has been reinforced.

    People here have fangs. They spit venom. They also detest other road users.

  28. Shane,
    I don’t completely agree with your statement that when times are tough that the conservative side of government comes to the fore. I would have thought that when times are tough people who are scared of losing their jobs veer to the left side of politics, this side having the reputation of looking after the workers.

  29. “People here have fangs. They spit venom. They also detest other road users.”

    I see you have run across the nicer more friendly Sydneyites Roswell.

  30. Sydneyites spit is all year round. They don’t need an excuse like Xmas or Easter to be nasty, they just become more venomous at those times.

    The biggest saviour of aliens to Sydney driving anywhere within 50km of it was GPS and Satnav in car units. Before they come on the scene heaven help anyone lost in Sydney looking for street or trying to find their way.

    Even now you had better make sure your GPS has the latest updates when driving into Sydney since they change their streets and road each week and hell would be preferable to slowing down trying to find the name of a street or an address.

  31. Does he think the Cameron Government will be a one term wonder, and also what does he think of the coalition partner and would that partner swap to Labor at the next election, or are they now rusted to the Torys ?.

    Shane,

    Apologies for late reply … I’m about to contest my Mum’s Will beena bit busy .. 😉

    My cousin will give me his take but he’s been a bit busy too – his daughter has been diagnosed with cancer of the cervix … the news is that surgery will fix the problem …

    I’ll post when I can …

    I’ve always understood that the UK has a three way contest – Conservatives, Liberal and Labour (they spell it correctly 😆 ) BUT the Tories and the Libs have always been “closer” to each other than Labour …

    (Disclaimer: I was only twelve when I emigrated but politics was a “big” discussion point in my extended family in England — Yorkshire is renowned for its Labour support … for what should be obvious reasons … me Mum voted Liberal, “because her father voted Labour” … my Dad was a union rep … my sister is a Liberal as all Cathlicks should be … now you know why I may occasionally come across as a “rebel” … BTW Robin Hood was a Yorkshireman! 😉 )

  32. Don’t get me started on Sydney.

    It’s amazing that the jewel of Australia – Canberra – is only a short drive from that scum hole called Sydney. The best and the worst this country has to offer are practically neighbours.

    Oh, and I forgot this . . . :mrgreen:

  33. Hope all goes well in your and your family’s current tribulations TB.

    I know you don’t visit here very often anymore but I always look forward to the rare times you do and it saddened me to hear of your tribulations. Thanks for still trying to post when you can, I for one appreciate that effort.

  34. Roswell, you fell for it again. First el gordo and now TB. You must be too trusting of peoples’ word.

    TB’s just having a bit of fun.

  35. Antony G
    I would have thought that when times are tough people who are scared of losing their jobs veer to the left side of politics, this side having the reputation of looking after the workers.

    I would have thought the same, however the evidence suggests otherwise as employees become distraught about possible loss of jobs there is much more capitulation to loss of benefits and unpaid overtime and conservative politics to ensure a job is around even if the job pays less with less benefits.

  36. Shane, if I might add. That’s an interesting one because the same as yourself, I would have believed that the conservative side of politics could be counted on to support strategies such as cutbacks in employing rather than cutting back on profits. Indeed the proof for this one is there in that Howard lost the election in my opinion, mostly due to WorkChoices.

  37. Shaneinqld,

    “the evidence suggests otherwise as employees become distraught about possible loss of jobs.”

    I think that I can see how it could happen, when there is a downturn in the economy people become more selfish No.1 comes first. Therefore traditionally leftist topics such as welfare get put onto the backburner.

  38. AntonyG

    You are totally correct, the ‘me first’ takes over and the ‘all of us’ comes second. You would think the opposite would happen. You only need to see how the issues that concern people change places during changes in economic circumstances.

    As we need the planet to actually survive in any circumstances I would have thought that environmental issues would have always been No1, but they fall way down the ladder when economic circumstances become difficult.

  39. Min

    I agree Howard lost due to Workchoices.

    But he lost when the economy had not had the GFC and people were confident in getting another job and business was spruiking how rich we all are and the banks were throwing money in our faces. So the “me first” mentality was not to the fore the “all of us” was.

    Totally different to the situation now around the world with uncertainty ( real or imagined or invented buy the msm or the opposition ) being bandied everywhere.

    The sharemarket remains way below the record highs, yet people were told that history shows the market recovers and booms past previous records. While this is true the bounce seems to be taking a hell of a long time to get going and people have short memories.

  40. Shane,

    Howard played this one so well, the way that he would select certain groups of people such as those on the disability support pension and the young unemployed. The suggestion was always that someone was getting more than somebody else. You see it now on redneck sites, the whingers who recon that refugees are put up at 5 star hotels and get more money than me.

  41. AntonyG

    Amazingly Howard did use thoe getting benefits from the government as examples of rorting the system.

    Problem was he created more welfare and more benefits and more allowances to more australians than ever, creating an even bigger welfare expectation mentality than existed before his government was elected while somehow managing to convince the public of the evils of welfare bludgers.

  42. I agree Shane that Howard lost the 2007 election due to Workchoices.

    Dozens of policies are put on the table on the eve of elections but it always comes down to just one when people cast their vote.

    Howard won in 2001 because of ‘boat people’ and in 2004 because of interest rates, which he maintained would always be lower under a Liberal Government.

    Is it amiss to suggest, that with the next election still two years away the next winning moves will be on a policy not yet announced?

  43. The penny has dropped with Mr. Abbott that he has to talk. In other words defend his views with facts not innuendo.

    What does Mr, Abbott do, is not to agree to worthwhile discussion but turn any meeting into a farce, ensuring there is no chance of success.

    His bravo of my holidays are not important is in keeping with his antics since he was elected leader of the Liberals.

    There are many calling for him to sit down and talk, including serving and ex liberal PM’s along with Cardinal Pell.

    Success is the last thing on Mr. Abbott’s mind. All he is interested in that he is not accused as the boats keep coming.

    Mr. Ruddock seems to be saying, that the Malaysia solution can be made acceptable with little change. He has also hinted that Nauru is no longer possible.

    if we took say ten thousand a year from the region would go a long way to slowing down the boats.

    Yes there are ten of thousands waiting. Now they have no hope of being allowed to come.

    Getting on that boat is only seen as an option because there is no hope left of being able to move on. If that line begins to move, most will be willing to wait.

    Maybe the Labor could give Mr. Abbott Nauru as a backup to Malaysia.

    It would be an expensive alternative option but might keep the man happy. It will not hurt the economy of Nauru.

    Personally, I believe there will be a slow down in numbers, since the last sinking and lost of lives.

    There is no skin off our noses giving some hope to those in Indonesia and Malaysia.

    We need workers and quite easily absorbs the number that are being are talked about.

    This should be as it was in the past, a partisanship matter. Politics should not be playing a part.

    What is of no longer importance as to why the boats has began coming again.

    There are many reasons, not all attributable to Labor.

    Mr Howard was lucky to get away with the so called Pacific Solution as long as he did.

    The legality of it was always suspect and Mr. Howard’s illegal action of denying the refugees access to the courts allow him to get away with it.

    The longer people were stranded in Indonesia and Malaysia, with no hope of moving on, meant they would eventually see the leaky boats as their only option. The longer they stayed, the less money and options they would have.

    Maybe Labor actions gave these people the belief that it was safe to move on. If so, it only sped up the process, not created it. The move would have been on, even if Mr. Howard did not lose power.

    The waves of people getting on leaky boats has always gone up and down. many things influence the flow. Desperation would be the biggest driver.

    Mr. Fraser recognised quickly that these people needed hope. They are willing to wait but must have the knowledge things can and will be better.

    Our borders are not in danger. These people are not demons.

    We can afford to take more.

    They and their children will be an access to the country, as all who come before them are.

    There are two problems. One is there are refugees that need haven. Two is that because of desperation and lack of hope in reaching haven, they get on leaky boats.

    It is not a economical or political problem, it is a humanity problem.

    How can threatening to punish or make their life harder, be more harsher than what they are fleeing from?

    How can we who have so much, believe we do not have to share with those who have no hope.

  44. Roswell, excellent point. Having a look at previous elections, the things which won it for Howard were all sudden events – often manufactured via scare campaigns.

    By introducing things very close to the election Howard ensured that there was insufficient time to be able to tear the logic of what he was saying to pieces, nor for the public to ‘get over it’.

    I therefore agree, that which will win or lose the next election will not be sighted until much closer to the next election.

  45. PS I suggest that Mr Abbott allow Mr. Morrison to meet before next Sunday, Christmas day.

    There us no need for taxpayers to have the extra expense of public servants being called in on their day off.

    There is no need for Mr.Abbott to be directly involved at this stage. His only agenda could be is to force the PM back from holidays and create havoc. If he is genuine, he will take a back seat.

    The world will not end if the meeting takes place after Christmas. The only important matter is that it takes place in good faith.

  46. Min, Mr Menzies had the same skill.

    Some luck, some manufactured, all based on fear. All exaggerated.

    Sadly Australians fall for it every time.

  47. Here are Tony Abbott’s precise words:

    Abbott’s reply on December 16 declares that “this is a problem you have created and that it is your responsibility to solve” and that “in absence of any indication that you are willing to change your position, I don’t see much point in further private discussions between Mr Morrison and Mr Bowen.”

    His words to the PM translate as, This is your problem and you can get st*ffed if you think that I’m going to help.

  48. Fear is the key. Fear about refugees (and the terrorists that hide within them); fear about interets rates; fear about industrial relations. What will be the future fears planted in us?

  49. Migs, fear is what drives the right. About 1990 I went on a short bus trip in Italy. Most of the passengers where young Americans, of Italian heritage.

    What amaze me was the number of young people on the bus. Second was the fact that these young people were afraid of everything. Afraid of being robbed. Afraid of being mobbed.

    The funny thing was that they were the only ones that had anything stolen. They were the only ones that felt scared every where they went.

    I could not imagine a young Australian even getting on a bus trip. I have never found young Australians to be afraid of their own shadow, even now, in spite of Mr.Howard’s best effort in instilling fear in us.

    The truth is that young Australians are inclined to take unnecessary risk overseas.

    Why then do we react to fear in election campaigns, even when the facts say otherwise.

  50. Mal Brough, that Abbott isn’t just talking about Nauru (funny how I’ve never notice Abbott mention any other). So which countries would Brough suggest which would be willing to take Australia’s refugees? …perhaps Turkey or Sweden…

  51. They have mentioned Mannis Island. Very humane, along with a stable NG government.

    The Liberals at every opportunity are also sticking with the myth that Mr. Bowen supports Nauru.

    Mr. Bowen and some put forward the proposition that if Nauru was in the legalisation, maybe Mr. Abbott would support the bill. Others in Cabinet thought this would be twisted by Mr. Abbott to mean they supported Nauru.

    The second opinion won the day. They were correct, Mr. Abbott has twisted the suggestion to say Mr.Bowen supported Nauru.

    This in spite of Mr. Bowen saying on all occasions that they will not consider Nauru because all advice says it is expensive and will not work.

    The Opposition seems to be backing away from Nauru and are giving the impression of being confused about what they want to do.

    Maybe the PM has picked up on this. I believe many of the public has. They appear to want the Opposition Leader to shut up and let his shadow ministers talk.

  52. Shane, I think it was more than greed, it is fear.

    The workers even became afraid of unions, those who are in the position to help them most.

  53. There were two areas that welfare was reduced severally.

    In the unemployment and single parents areas.

    This reduction has continued under Labor.

  54. howard knew how to use it, and tabot is trying too. But he is an incompetent, only successful due to a media who ARE competent at it

  55. Min, there other similar polls, all about the same. I believe that Mr.Abbott is on a loser on this one.

    The PM has one upped him.

    The PM got in first and for some unknown reason, he believed that she would keep the communications secret.

    Why Mr. Abbott would believe this when he recognises no convention or norms himself.

    With this man, anything should go, as far as Labor is concerned. He should be given the same respect he gives others.

    The one firm belief that I have, is that is my right to treat others as they treat me.

    I also believe others will treat me as I treat them.

  56. Catching up,

    I think that the government gives Tony Abbott every opportunity to take part in the democratic process, however he has shown no interest in doing anything except saying No. Name one amendment and also consider the standard of debate which parliament has descended into.

    No government ministers have shown the disrespect which Abbott routinely shows the Prime Minister.

  57. Roswell

    Is it amiss to suggest, that with the next election still two years away the next winning moves will be on a policy not yet announced?

    Not at all, as you will probably be totally correct. That policy yet to be announced will alter the swinging voters decision, who, afterall elect or remove a government.

    Policies and announcements do not alter rusted on supporters of either side of politics, who either fully support the policy, or tend to go quiet, in the hope it will beoverlooked, especially if it has conflicted with previous fully supported policy. If it is good regurgitate it infinitum, if bad then moving along and get over it.

    AntonyG

    Agree the Greed button is a powerful button to push and to continue to push every three years. What is in it for me, what can I get. This culture has solidified in our community to the detriment of humanity and compassion.

    CU

    I agree it may also contain an element of fear, however in my observations greed seems to trump fear when it comes to the almighty dollar. The fear of being shot is overcome by the wealth to be made from a Rhino Horn for example. The fear of being caught doing insider trading is outweighed by the greed for profit.

  58. Could not have put it better.

    “.This latter piece of advice I heartily endorse. Abbott has not shown himself to have the slightest talent for negotiation. That unfortunate lack is exacerbated by an ingrained misogyny that makes negotiations with a woman especially problematic. Add to that the fact that this particular woman has the job he believes is his by divine right and clearly, including him at the table is going to get us precisely nowhere..”

    http://noplaceforsheep.com/2011/12/21/weve-signed-the-convention-but/

  59. Shane, a different culture these days I think, greed is good and more is better whereas at least in my parents’ day ‘doing without’ was perceived as a virtue.

  60. Min

    I agree a different culture. That culture has been fostered by the right and big business to create an individual greed mentality to ensure removal of collective bargaining for one thing. It started around 20 years ago and has gathered momentum. I can remember how open and up front wages and conditions for all employees right through to the MD were, when I first commenced employment , to the now, down right secretive, North Korean type control where staff are threatened with dismissal if they have the audacity to discuss their own salary with another employee, let alone someone elses. All breeds the selfish me, me ,me culture in a company whihc then leeches to the community.

  61. TB, so sorry about all the turmoil in your lives atm. I hope everything is resolved quickly and happily for you and your family.

    Min @10.15am 21/12, also supported by Turnbull’s proposal when GFC1 threatened us. Instead of policies to support continued employment, his big idea was to give tax cuts, which, as I’ve said before are neither use nor ornament if you’re unemployed.

    And I think this is why the Liars party and cheerleaders still ridicule the stimulus package-it worked and if they acknowledge that it was a good idea, their entire belief system crumbles.

    They work from the standpoint that the damage caused by throwing hundreds of thousands of people out of work is a mere detail. In fact, they love the idea, because then their mates like Gina Coldhart, Twiglet and Clive and others will have their pick of almost slave labour.

    That’s what the Liars Party is all about; they don’t give a toss about ordinary people. Unfortunately, their cheerleaders in the msm, fosters the meme that they are a caring sharing party. They care only for big money.

    shane @11.13am 21/12, that’s because most of us think only in the short term. As long as we get cheap uncontaminated water when we turn on the tap, there’s fuel at the servo, and we can get cheap food, in or out of season, we don’t worry about whether it’s sustainable in the long term.

    And we’re told by the likes of Liealot and other deniers that essentially it doesn’t matter how many people we crowd onto the planet, how much pollution we pour into the air we have to breathe, the water we have to drink and grow our food with, she’ll be right because the planet will cop it sweet and let us keep doing what we’re doing.

    Why do we swallow that bullshit? Because it’s more comfortable for us to do so. Nobody wants their nice comfortable lifestyle adjusted downward and someone has always covered for us in the past.

    I also think the really selfish attitude we’re seeing atm is the result of 11½ years of Rodentochracy crapaganda. My parents told me tha during the depression, even though things were very desperate, people helped each other out. Not so with the me, me, me attitude fostered and fed by the Rodent government with their middle class vote buying welfare mentality.

    AntonyG and shane, he managed that by targetting the disabled and unemployed as somehow unworthy non contributors, unlike you honest upright well heeled very hard working folk on giant salaries!

    But because you work sooo hard and your lives are sooo arduous, what with only one beemer and two o/s holidays, you deserve a heap of public money! Forget the fact that those people on low wages probably work a lot harder than the well heeled whose hands are perpetually held out for public money.

    Gone are the days when getting a decent salary meant you were capable of paying your own bills and would have been horrified at the thought of getting welfare, thanks to the power hungriness of the Rodent and his cheerleaders.

    Perhaps we should be calling middle class welfare what it really is-dole bludging!!

    CU @12.53pm 21/12, well said and @1.11pm, just what my parents and grandparents always said.

    I think that the government gives Tony Abbott every opportunity to take part in the democratic process, however he has shown no interest in doing anything except saying No.

    Because he doesn’t have to with the msm so uninterested in scrutinising him, AntonyG.

    Min and CU, Liealot doesn’t negotiate principally because he doesn’t have to with the compliant msm running interference for him. I think if he lost the crutch of the msm running party political broadcasts for him and was actually scrutinised, there’d be a different story.

  62. Jane, things never change. Today we have the man running around trying to get off that limb he has got himself on.

    I have been out but the earlier headlines were that Mr. Abbott is maintaining the pressure on the PM. Will someone please tell me how.

    It is Mr. Abbott running around like a chicken with his head cut off, saying a lot. Have not seen much concern from Labor.

    I noticed that Mr. Windsor is applying pressure to the Greens.

    The PM has made a offer to Mr. Abbott, that he will find hard to say “no”.

    It would be just as easy for the PM to place the Greens in the same position and play one off against the other.

    Offer the Greens around 10,000 or more from the long term asylum seekers in this region and some outside of war zones in the middle east. In return we do not let latecomers in, as those who recently lost their lives seem to be.

    10,000 or 15,000 extra per year, over a couple or more years would be a offer hard to refuse.

    We as a country could afford the numbers and would be less costly than we are spending now. It is also a humane offer.

    Yes, Mr. Abbott needs to be careful, he is not in the driving seat as he appears to believe he is. His days are numbered.

  63. Roswell, pray tell me how could anyone have much love for a party that sets out to attack us at every turn.

  64. It’s beyond a joke that the biggest whingers in this country are the mega rich. People like Gina Rinehart or Gerry Harvey can’t open their big fat gobs unless it’s to moan about how unfair the world treats them.

    It really is pathetic.

  65. Agreed, jane, we have been encouraged to whinge during that decade of Howard and Co. But I really don’t think that’s our essential character. We’re a pretty generous bunch at heart, and at this time of the year when retailers like Gerry Harvey are whingeing because we’re not bingeing in their stores enough most fair minded Aussies will admit their good luck and put their hands in their pockets to help the obviously less fortunate. Quite apart from being generous with money we hear lots of stories about how even the hard up will help out with their time. And not just at Christmas. They do it throughout the year.

  66. Patricia I agree, Aussies are at their very best when helping a mate. I think that it’s about time that the words bloody whinger re-entered the Australian vernacular.

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