Friday on my mind (part two): end of the political year

Continued from last week’s thread:

It being the end of the parliamentary year, I was reflecting on the way that parliament and politics has been evolving – although some might argue “devolving”, mostly due to Tony Abbott’s failure to do anything substantial other than to pursue his Tony For PM Campaign.

The Opposition’s record to date amounts to one bill defeated, not one amendment successful and this is aside from constant disruptive behaviour on the floor of parliament, plus failure to enter into debate of any substance. In addition it would seem that apart from not being able to successfully negotiate with the majority of the Independents to form government, that nothing has changed. With the exception of one occasion when Tony Abbott lobbied Tony Crook to side with him and vote against the Malaysia deal, this being the Government’s first legislative defeat in the lower house, Tony Abbott has been completely unsuccessful in his attempts to influence the Independents. Whenever Tony Abbott yet again calls for A New Election, one can discern an almost audible sigh coming from Tony Windsor: here we go again…now offer me one reason why we should…

Anthony Albanese’s speech at yesterday’s censure motion is being widely mooted as one of the strongest of any minister, all year. I therefore thought to provide a portion here and have highlighted the sections which I personally believe are the most relevant.

Mr ALBANESE (Grayndler—Leader of the House and Minister for Infrastructure and Transport) (16:42): It has been an extraordinary 12 months. Indeed, this year marks 60 years since the role of Leader of the House was created. The first Leader of the House was Eric Harrison. A lot of things have evolved since then, but one thing has stayed the same. The Leader of the House’s job is to be the leader of the party’s lieutenant. I take that job seriously in terms of looking after the interests of the government. Also, however, in this parliament, I think the Leader of the House’s job has evolved due to the nature of it. I very much try to look after the interests of members across the board and have probably more contact with non-government party members than any previous Leader of the House. I note that the nature of this parliament means that we have a Speaker who is an Independent just like we had in the last hung parliament. From 1941 to 1943, under that great Labor leader John Curtin, the Speaker of the House of Representatives was a member of the United Australia Party. In terms of the position, that is the case.

It has been an extremely successful parliament. In spite of the fact that we started off with 71 votes on each piece of legislation, now 72 votes, we have seen some 254 bills passed by the House of Representatives, including major legislation: the National Broadband Network, all of our budget measures, national health reform, putting a price on carbon and, this week, the mining tax. This is important reform in spite of the fact that it has been opposed by the opposition, whom I have dubbed the ‘noalition’, which is what they have transformed themselves into. I hope that over Christmas Santa brings the leader of the ‘noalition’ a policy, but I am reminded of the fact that Santa says, ‘Ho, ho, ho,’ not, ‘No, no, no.’ So, when the leader of the ‘noalition’ talks to Santa and asks for a policy, I hope that does occur.

I thank the Prime Minister for her support of my position as Leader of the House. I thank the Deputy Prime Minister and my friend the Treasurer, Mr Swan. I find it always pays to be nice to the Treasurer, and on that basis I also thank the Minister for Finance and Deregulation just because I can! It is always good to have the Treasurer and the finance minister as friends, and I certainly do that. To my deputy, Mr Smith: it is always nice to have a deputy leader who has assets, and the Minister for Defence is always good to have as Deputy Leader of the House.

To other ministers, including those who represent me at estimates, and to my friend the Chief Government Whip: we have been in this place through the long years in opposition. It is terrific to work so closely with you as the Chief Government Whip. To the crossbenchers, with whom we have meetings at least weekly and often many more times than that: thank you for your honesty, your integrity and your goodwill. It is important in terms of the functioning of this parliament that people mean what they say and do what they say they will do, and in each of the crossbenchers I have found that that is the case.

Note: that look on Tony Abbott’s face is priceless

265 comments on “Friday on my mind (part two): end of the political year

  1. The last comment on the first thread was:

    Shaneinqld

    So from 1983-1996 times were hard. The Libs got lucky and from 1996-2007 surfed the world wide boom.

    Your words not mine.

    I always thought that debt at 18.5% of GDP was the largest in our history but perhaps during WW1 and WW2 was larger. I do not know the answer

    Found the answer and it was over 120%. Page 8 graph shows the details. The years 1917-1958, 41 years were all higher as a % of GDP than during the Keating Years and we didn’t go down the gurgler even having a hogher GDP for 13 years after the war ended. All about perspective and not hysteria.

    http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf

  2. Uh oh, David Speers on Sky tried to talk over the top of Penny Wong. Quick, someone with a broom and shovel to collect the remnants after Wong has finished with him.

  3. Migs, significant stats to beat the dingbats over the head. I wonder how Neil will cope knowing that Menzies ran a higher debt as a % of GDP than Keating did or than the Rudd/Gillard governments has.

    Will this drive our resident cheerleader and thread derailer to self harm? Will he take to the demon drink? Hurl himself off the garden wall? Eat a raw potato?

    Min, I’m hope someone has a few bandaids handy. LOL!

  4. Just found this on News.com

    THE United Nations’ top human rights official has congratulated the Federal Government on its new softer approach to asylum seekers arriving by boat.”

    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/un-welcomes-asylum-changes/story-e6frfku0-1226209043392#ixzz1f3gpjYtu

    Maybe Scott Morrison should be sent a copy

    “The Government will also begin processing asylum seekers who arrive by boat in the same way it processes those who arrive by plane.”

    About bloody time too.

  5. Ross, you have an evil sense of humor 😉

    Migs, the pinnacle of Abbott’s morality was when he shared his favorite toy age 5 and was given a gold star for his Behaviour Chart.

  6. No Migs, no elephant stamp..little Tony tried to grab his toy back after he had been given the gold star. Little Tony then stamped his feet and said, No No No. That sadly was the last occasion that Tony ever felt inclined to share anything.

  7. “It was 18.5% of GDP and rising rapidly.”

    Lie. It was not rising rapidly. You added that in.

    All economic indicators were improving when Keating left office as Howard himself acknowledged before his first budget when he said he had been handed a better economy by half than he expected.

    Plus this doesn’t get off the fact that Neil the one trick pony just keeps going back to fucking debt and banging on about it over and over no matter how many stats, figures, sources and articles we show him that the debt was not a problem and got us out of a recession.

    So yet again a topic dragooned away from Howard’s miserable failures and Abbott’s more than considerable shortcomings by bringing up Keating debt so that everyone rushes away to get facts and figures and wastes time typing responses that Neil totally ignores anyway so he can bring up the exact same debt topic destroyer every time Howard or Abbott or any of his precious Liberals are found wanting, which is all the time.

  8. Shane

    I am sure there have been many fine ALP govts in the past. My main beef with the ALP is the recent track record. You can only judge a sporting team for example on their current form. The previous ALP govt here in NSW was one of the most corrupt for a long time. Then you have Cain/Kirner in Victoria etc. So my opinion of the ALP is what I have seen in the 80’s and 90’s

    Regarding debt the figure most people quote is the net debt found in Chart 6 rather than gross debt. This figure only starts in the early 1970’s.

  9. Neil

    There have been good ALP and Coalition Governments and it is nice to see you actually acknowedge something.

    Regarding recent track records, there have been some bad governments and I agree the NSW ALP needed to be booted as they had become complacent and nepotism had set in. However you harp on about debt like it is the only thing relevant in the universe and Barry O’Farrell is putting NSW into deficit for the first time in many years while sacking Public Servants and giving the clubs $300 million extra in Pokie Tax Breaks. I hope you have kept a record of all of the fundamentals in NSW when the O’Farrell government was elected so you can actually examine them on their record and not rhetoric just as you so dutifully scrutinise the ALP.

    Regarding debt the figure most people quote is the net debt found in Chart 6 rather than gross debt. This figure only starts in the early 1970′s.

    If you want reality then you have to include all of the years and the graph I referred to. Otherwise you are just as dishonest and manipulative as those who seek to limit figures to the years that justify their accusations. Australia did not suddenly start existing in the early 1970s the net debt figure graphs did.

  10. Tom, they did notice it in passing..sort of vaguely-ish…but this has now been replaced by CRADLE ROCKED: Baby bonus hit to get back surplus and as was observed on our other topic, resplendant with a 4×4 pic of a crying baby.

  11. How can anyone trust anything Treasury says??

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/budget-surplus-to-narrow-to-15b-20111129-1o45z.html

    “The achievement of a surplus next financial year will require a major reversal of fortunes, though, with the government now projecting the current year’s deficit to blow out to more than $37 billion from less than $23 billion forecast six months ago.”

    So we go from a $23B deficit to a $37B deficit in just 6 months. That is geting close to double. And you expect me to believe Treasury forecasts

  12. I also not Min that the surplus, if it ever happens, is already being derogatorily referred to as ‘itty bitty’

    I kid you not

  13. Tom and Ross, that article was absolute cr*p-ola. Abbott wouldn’t have done what Gillard did..so why did Abbott immediately run around like a mad chook trying to convince Oakeshott to put his hand up for the Speakership.

  14. Perhaps the article meant he wouldn’t have been ‘smart’ enough to do what Gillard did, considering how blind sided he was by it 😉

  15. Ross, I agree complete re Worst. Welfare. Program. EVER. If ever they were serious about money for the bubbies, then the $5gs should come in the form of vouchers – a pram voucher, a bassinet voucher, nappy vouchers.

    $5,000 thanks for the new plasma suckers!

  16. Neil

    They are projections, estimates, budgets, hypothesis etc and as such are subject to unforseen changes such as GFCs or Stockmarket Crashes or Natural Disasters.

    I bet the NZ Treasury estimates didn’t have a Christchurch Earthquake factor and I guarantee their estimates have been shot to pieces, doesn’t mean they were not correct at the time of estimation.

    Funny how Treasury estimates and budgets when the Coalition are in office are correct but when they are in opposition are incorrect. Doesn’t this seem to stink of politics, even to you ?

  17. $5,000 thanks for the new plasma suckers!

    How are the poor toddlers supposed to learn now without Dora in HiRes?

  18. I was going to comment on Mr. Abbott’s reply but decided as he had nothing new to say, but the usual rants and raving, it is not worth my time.

    Maybe Mr. Abbott can explain how a party that has been in power over four years, cannot accept some responsibility for what is happening, whether it is good or bad.

    Funny thing is that none of the experts seem to agree with Mr. Abbott and Co.

    Most experts do not believe that then MRRT and The Clean Energy Future bill have nothing to do with the state of the budget.

    Mr. Abbott once again has nothing to add to the debate.

  19. Once expert pointed out that the figures can go up as well as down. it depends on the next few months.

    Mr. Abbott is a little upset that Mr. Costello’s baby bonus for stay at home mums has been touched.

    He is also claiming credit for the cut in the PS. Except he forgets it is not workers that are in line to be sacked. The government is raising what is already in place by .25 percent.

    Yes, the PS might find it hard this time to find the saving without lost of jobs. Even so, it is not the thousands that Mr. Abbott has in his sights.

  20. @Min – I fully support paid maternity leave for both mother and father (or mother and mother or father and father), and that’s where the money should go. It makes sense, it keeps people employed, it’s human.

    Paying people because they had a productive root is just utter rubbish.

    I need a new couch. Do I get a f**king couch bonus?

  21. Jane, Horror budgets were not unknown under Mr. Menzies. Under Mr. Howard and Fraser, we had stagnation.

    It is said that Mr. Menzies wasted the post war years boom. Not much was achieved.

    I used to call Mr. Menzies budgets, the stop go budgets. I was young and naive then but knew things could be better.

    I suggest that Neil look at the tax rates of that time. Do not forget there was also Death Duties as well.

    High taxes and low welfare. That seems to be the norm for the liberals.

  22. Tom re How are the poor toddlers supposed to learn now without Dora in HiRes

    Tom, I hate to be pedantic but this is a baby bonus. Newborn babies do not watch Dora 😉

  23. Funny how Treasury estimates and budgets when the Coalition are in office are correct but when they are in opposition are incorrect.”

    ??????

    Treasury always got it wrong with Costello’s budgets. However with his budgets the forecasts were usually the other way around.

    The surplus was always bigger than predicted.

  24. Ross, I agree. Let me count the ways that $5,000 could be better directed, yes a well-directed leave scheme is one of them. That is, as long as it goes to the right people not as per the Liberals where the wealthy get the lion’s share and the women who really do need to have to return to work asap to pay the mortgage receive the dregs.

    BTW I wonder if there is any evidence that Australia’s birth rate has improved at all due to the baby bonus. If not, then clearly it’s a waste of money.

  25. Treasury always got it wrong with Costello’s budgets. However with his budgets the forecasts were usually the other way around.

    The surplus was always bigger than predicted.

    Could that have been because of the booming economy and that the forecasts did not contain unexpected booms, just like they do not contain unexpected plunges ?

  26. Min, the birth rate I believe did appear to improve.

    More I suggest by those women who put off having babies until the approached their forties, playing catch up.

    I have not seen any suggestions that women are having more babies per person. Just having them later.

    The number of very young women having babies decreased.

  27. Who are these stay at home mums?

    I hate to say it, but many are those who have no intention of working.

    I noticed when the rules was changed and one had to return to work when the youngest was seven, there appeared in the West and South West suburbs of Sydney, many women either pregnant or pushing a pram with adolescents in tow.

    Now I might be a cynic, but I could not help being suspicious.

    I worked among many of these women, and having a baby was not on their agenda.

    The five thousand dollars was the icing on the cake.

    I have a grandson, I am sure was born for similar reasons. The sad part of this example, mum if she was not so lazy, could have been receiving the Invalid pension.

    I hate to think what she is going to do when this one turns seven.

    She has two girls in their early twenties. Two boys 12 and 17 plus the three year old.

  28. That sadly was the last occasion that Tony ever felt inclined to share anything.

    Or said “Yes!”, Min.

    ME @2.10pm, you’re so right. I really think we should rename him. Derailer. However, we’re like Pavlov’s dogs, jumping when he gives the command. We don’t even ask “How high?”, so perhaps we should all give Derailer more credit. He’s trained us well.

    So we should cease and desist replying to him unless he’s on topic, or has a bloody good reason for being off topic. It’s time we started to condition him. You’ve been warned, Derailer, ME and i are onto you, so you can stop sniggering. You’ve been sprung!

    Although, ME, I found the stats on debt quite fascinating, reinforcing my belief that the debt mantra droned endlessly by the likes of Derailer is quite simply bullshit and should be disregarded. As should any further reaction to him, unless he contributes to the discussion in a meaningful way and STOPS ATTENTION SEEKING!!!!

    Tom R @2.38pm, sometimes flat lines have dips.

    Ross Sharp @3.08pm, spot on. I can’t wait to here all the piteous wailing when $400 is removed. The whole bloody lot should go, imo.

    I need a new couch. Do I get a f**king couch bonus?

    Only if I get one for a new tile job in the bathroom, Ross. 😀

    Min @3.17pm. That is a pearler of an idea!

  29. CU, although the birthrate went up suddenly in ’08 from 12.02 to 12.55 it’s been heading back down ever since. The graph below which wouldn’t quite fit on the comments page, is births per 1,000.

    Country 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
    13.08 12.86 12.71 12.55 12.4 12.26 12.14 12.02 12.55 12.47 12.39 12.33

  30. Neil

    As you are doubtful with regards to superannuation I thought I would provide you with some figures.

    The “levy for everything” budget surpluses and net savings when they lost the election was.
    $45,000,000,000

    The current amount of superannuation saved as a result of the superannuation guarantee contribution ( not including any private contributions) alone is
    $1,300,000,000,000

    The budget surpluses and net savings of the “levy for everything” government represent only 3.46% of the contribution to the economy of the superannuation guarantee. Imagine what it would have been if it had continued to 15% like it was supposed to do.

  31. Ross, at the bottom of the article you link to was this about the author:

    Terry Barnes was a senior adviser in the Howard government.

    That explains why the article was full of shit.

  32. “I really think we should rename him. Derailer.”

    Problem is that he is having no sucess at derailing anything.

  33. Jane re ME @2.10pm, you’re so right. I really think we should rename him. Derailer. However, we’re like Pavlov’s dogs, jumping when he gives the command. We don’t even ask “How high?”, so perhaps we should all give Derailer more credit. He’s trained us well.

    Point very much taken. Thank you.

  34. CU, the only stats that I can locate is that the average age of first time mothers has increased from 21.4yrs in 1970 to 25yrs in 2007. Of interest is that 25yrs brings us back to around the 1870’s.

  35. I noticed that the ABC and The Australian are both saying that the government is “clinging” to the return to surplus.

    Shame on the ABC !

  36. Another O’Farrell fuckup, sorry it’s the only word that describes it.

    The $4 million Polair 4 launched by the minister under much fanfare and praising the system as being so wonderful only a short time ago turns out to be much pie in the sky.

    So is the minister taking the responsibility as they always said Labor must do when Labor was the government, don’t be friggin’ stupid.

    The same Liberal minister singling the praises and getting his mug in every TV shot he could such a short time ago is apparently now angry and said if you are going to launch something don’t launch it half arsed.

    Hang on minister, it is your project, your responsibility and it was you front and centre launching it.

    For stuff’s sake will one Liberal minister for once anywhere take responsibility for anything they screw up.

    And O’Farrell the conga line of your ministers stuffing up is steadily growing so how you haven’t sacked any as you promised you would?

  37. Pip the ABC kept using the word “wafer thin” as a put down.

    I guess if the government had returned a $10 billion surplus it would have not been good enough or more likely too much as all the suffering that went on to produce that surplus.

    And thus the illustration of how this government is in a lose/lose no matter what it does, even when it’s proven to be the right thing and a positive it’s always spun by the media, and especially the ABC, into a negative.

  38. Mobius, you’re excused, I agree with every word….
    A few weeks ago big Harto declared that ltd news is not conducting a campaign to oust this government. He lied !

  39. Just watching Channel 9’s story on Swan’s cuts. Oakes was more overtly critical than I’ve seen him before, not his usual pseudo above it all neutrality with some swipes, but more like something from the 6.30 junk shows. A nice shot of Mr Abbott conveying the implication but naturally not the promise that he’d not be doing this sort of thing. Not even a measly rock solid guarantee.
    But they did do a short but fair bit on Rupert’s British worries.

  40. And thus the illustration of how this government is in a lose/lose no matter what it does,”

    Sounds like the Howard govt. When they produced a $20B surplus you said it should have been $30B. Plus they should have been spending more on infrastructure

  41. Neil, I doubt whether Mobius ever said that.

    If you’d ever bothered to read his posts, like everyone else has, you’d know that Mobius has always been critical of Howard’s lack of spending on infrastructure needs. If Howard had have stopped wasting money on middle class welfare, them yes, he could have had an enormous surplus.

    If you want to make claims about what commenters here are alleged to have said, then I suggest you provide a link. Prove to us that your claims aren’t fabricated.

    As the old saying goes; put up or shut up.

  42. Neil, I doubt whether Mobius ever said that.

    http://blogocrats.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/howard-and-costellos-value-lost-in-waste/#comment-7284

    “Look what Howard squandered, not just the opportunities in building this nation through skills, infrastructure, health and education (which the people were screaming out for) but by instilling, fostering and running a bloated and inefficient government bureaucracy, 22 billion dollar surpluses were just the start, he could have had 30+ billion dollar surpluses, and imagine what could have been done to position Australia with that?”

  43. BSA Bob, Laurie Oakes is about as useful as Michelle Grattan these days…
    they’ve joined the groupthink kids.

  44. Pip et al, Grattan actually wrote a half way reasonable piece this time..

    The government might not have been adventurous in its measures but it has produced what looks a like a reasonable package in tough circumstances.

    Australia has an economic overcoat on as the weather worsens in Europe. Swan hopes it is thick enough to withstand further storms. So do we all.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/surplus-may-be-waferthin-but-politically-weighty-20111129-1o4hn.html#ixzz1f536hUyE

  45. Thanks for the link, Neil, but it’s sad that you have to troll through comments three years old for the mere purpose of using them against somebody.

  46. Well I kept that one because it annoyed me when I read it.

    Three years?? Wow. And we are still together.

  47. Well I kept that one because it annoyed me when I read it.

    Much of what you write annoys many people, Neil. You should hope it doesn’t come back to haunt you.

  48. Much of what you write annoys many people, Neil.”

    I have noticed that the truth sends you people into a frenzy.

  49. ME @ 6.10

    Re the rubbish re- reporting of News Ltd stuff on the ABC. Today is Nov29, tomorrow the 30th, so that means 1 more month of the ABC Chairman.
    How long will the recovery take to weed out all the implants from the News ltd muck pile, editors, sub editors, reporters etc.

  50. Min, I have to agree, Grattan’s latest isn’t half bad.

    Wayne Swan made the point today that the drop in revenue due to the ructions in other economies is $20 billion, the same amount as the total cost of all schools and higher education.
    That’s a very big hit to our economy.

  51. Perhaps Mr Abbott will explain to us what he’d do to bring the Budget into surplus. Listening to him, it can’t be too difficult. Of course, each individual will be assured that THEY will not be inconvenienced.
    I don’t think he will, though. We’ll have to vote him in first & then he’ll have a think about it.

  52. Excellent point BSA, what actually has Abbott suggested so far? Abbott was on Sky this afternoon but I ‘tuned out’ the minute he started going on about the BER and pink batts.

  53. When Tony Abbott takes to the PM’s chair he’ll begin his speech, saying ‘this is a bad government’, ‘it’s a toxic tax’….oh, nooo…..

  54. Robb: it’s a hoax in a way they have brought this year’s surplus into this year, into next year, and then there’s next year..**wish I could type faster, would love to see a transcript!

    Comment from Sky, have a look at Tony Abbott looking over Robb’s shoulder..he looks as confused as the rest of us.

  55. I have noticed that the truth sends you people into a frenzy.

    Yes it does. Thankfully people like Mobius et al have been providing links to it.

  56. Migs, now this could be quite true. The truth being so sparse in the MSM that we tend to get excited whenever we come across some.

  57. Abbott and Robb should insert this story in their pipe and smoke it…

    Australia now fully AAA, surplus or not
    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3379347.htm

    MARK COLVIN: The big international ratings agencies continue to seem untroubled by the size of the Government’s deficit.

    Today Fitch Ratings joined its bigger rivals in rating Australian Government debt as AAA.

    Fitch says low government debt, a flexible exchange rate and an open free market economy combine to make Australia one of the safest countries to lend to.

    The agency also agrees with economists who say the Government should be flexible in its surplus commitment.

  58. Min at 7.51
    Watching 7.30 tonight, we saw a lineup of critics berating Wayne Swan, not a constructive idea from any of them. Both the parallel “go to deficit, you obsessed twit” & “wasteful spendthrift” lines will be run concurrently. Mr Abbott will be free to criticise as he pleases, unmolested.

  59. BSA, readers of news.com are giving Swan a flogging over the cut to the baby bonus. I’d say these people are the ones that reaped the benefits of Howard’s fixation with providing middle class welfare. Generally these types are only worried about themselves. They also come from the same pool that have been demanding a return to surplus.

    Disclaimer: they only want a return to surplus if they can continue to sponge what they can from the Government.

  60. This is unbelievably bad reportage; there is no mention of the fact that Joe Hockey hasn’t prepared a real budget …twice, now three times !

    No mention of Hockey’s budget ‘costings’ in 2010, which were such a dog’s breakfast, and for which the accountants are STILL under investigation.

    Now, he’s tired of doing the heavy lifting….

    Hockey tired of doing budget ‘heavy lifting’
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-29/opposition-tired-of-doing-budget-heavy-lifting/3702514

    The Opposition says it is considering not putting out an alternative budget update, after Treasurer Wayne Swan announced $11.5 billion in savings to get the budget back to surplus in 2012-13.

    Opposition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey says the Government steals its policies and the Coalition is tired of doing the “heavy lifting”.

    He says the Government’s decision to make cuts to the public service to help make savings is stolen from the Opposition’s policy play book.

    Wayne Swan has not threatened to abolish 12,000 public service positions.

    What I heard was ‘natural attrition’ and less of a spend on advertising, as well as teleconferencing instead of travel.

    Epic Fail, Sabra Lane.

  61. Pip at 10.29
    Reporting in the literal sense of the word is all it is, it should be framed & stuck on some wall in journalism school as a definitve examle of “— said, —said” journalism. Whether this would be considered a good or bad thing I’m not sure.

    There’s a side link referring to Swan’s pursuit of a surplus as “Madness”. Do’ntcha just know there’s a million “Broken Promise” stories out there ready to go if there isn’t one?

  62. …and the labor train wreck continues. Since Gillard ignored the electorate, broke solemn promises on the eve of the election, bent over for the independents and green, wasted taxpayers cash and she, with her loon Swan have managed to steadily close in on their $250 Billion target debt.
    Gillard has had the consistent knack this year to crap on the voters. Well done Gillard and get used to the primary vote of 30%.
    The new year?
    … there will be interminable press and rage by the voters about the Carbon Dioxide Tax, The Durban Debacle unfolding will confirm the stupidity of the Gillard government.
    Slipper will set in stone the saying “…LAY DOWN WITH DOGS AND GET UP WITH FLEAS”
    .. not sure what will be the greater sleeze story Slipper or HSU generally or Craig Thompson specifically.
    … and the astounding no border protection policy by Gillard will continue to be held up as the pinnacle of her incompetence. and we will be reminded daily of this stupidity as the boats arrive.
    … and God bless the unions. Just when Gillard tries to get traction the union dumbos go feral.
    …and “whispers” people continue to howl outside the firelight. Doonesbury did trump you guys this morning.

  63. From Pips link

    That’s a lesser tax take of around $60 billion for one year that was taken from tax payers during the peak period of the Howard government. As mentioned elsewhere, it is easy to register a budget surplus when you tax the living daylights out of the population

    And yet, all we get in the msm is ‘the opposition says’ this Government is addicted to taxing.

    Very few people understand that this Government is actually reducing the overall tax intake, most think just the opposite.

    And the media, and their constant barracking, are to blame, far more than any other factor.

    Of course, now that it is becoming more well known, it is apparently because the Government stole the libs tax promises.

    Sorry, most of these reductions the libs have violently opposed. They cannot claim any ownership, even the ones from the 2007 election, as I am sure that, had the result gone the other way, we would have found them to be ‘non-core’

    Welcome to the reality, Labor, the low taxing Governmnent.

  64. For Neils benefit. Of course he will say it is lies. Thanks Pip for the link.

    The MYEFO presented some wonderful historical tables on various aspects of the Budget and fiscal policy. The highlights, to me at least are probably:
    • Total government receipts (tax, dividends, fees and the like) was 21.6% of GDP in 2010-11, the lowest level since 1973-74 when Frank Crean was Treasurer.
    • The tax to GDP ratio fell to 20.0% in 2010-11, the lowest since 1978-79 and is a whopping 4.2% of GDP below the record tax to GDP ratio raked in by the Howard government in 2004-05 and 2005-06. That’s a lesser tax take of around $60 billion for one year that was taken from tax payers during the peak period of the Howard government. As mentioned elsewhere, it is easy to register a budget surplus when you tax the living daylights out of the population.
    • Real government payments (spending) will rise by an average of less than 0.1% per annum in the 3 years to 2012-13, the weakest 3 yearly spending growth since the mid to late 1980s under the Hawke/Keating Government. Never once did the Howard Government deliver a cut in real government spending – in fact real spending grew by a thumping 3.5% per annum for the last 5 years of the Howard government.
    • Payments (spending) will be 23.6% of GDP in 2012-13 – around 1.5% of GDP below the average of the last 30 years. In the 12 Howard Government Budgets, spending to GDP averaged 24.2% of GDP: and only in 3 years out of 12 of the Howard Government was the spending to GDP ratio lower than the Gillard Government is projecting for 2012-13. Which government is addicted to spending?
    • The 4.3% of GDP turnaround in the Budget balance in the 3 years to 2012-13 (from a deficit of 4.2% to a surplus of 0.1%) is the most rapid turn in the fiscal position on record.
    • There are more gems I’m sure, but that is for another day.
    Posted by Stephen Koukoulas

    http://stephenkoukoulas.blogspot.com/2011/11/fascinating-fiscal-facts-whos-addicted.html

  65. We keep hearing that the Greens and Independents have the PM by the tail.

    What legislation has this PM bought in that was not already Labor policy.

    Maybe the priories and timetables might be a little different, but the policies introduced have not been.

    It is more like in my humble opinion that the PM sat down with the minor party and independents, discuss policies they already had in common and came to a agreement on introducing them.

    The policies at he end of the day, have been ones that Labor can live with. Labor have not sold their principles in any policy bought into law.

    Some have not been as extensive as Labor would like, but at the end of the day, politics is the art of the possible. Legislation can always be changed down the track.

    One hundred percent of nothing is not very productive.

  66. Welcome to the reality, Labor, the low taxing Governmnent.”

    What taxes have they droppped?? I cannot think of any.

  67. Well, Neil you feel free to dismiss evidence from the treasury.

    I am sorry you found facts inconvenient.

    Never-less they are still facts.

    Prove the figures wrong.

  68. Maybe they are getting less tax revenue because of the GFC. For examples Capital gains tax receipts are down because share prices are dropping.

    What taxes has Labor abolished??

  69. They were Costello’s cuts which Labor copied during the 2007 election campaign. I think they mainly kept us safe from bracket creep.

  70. I hardly think they were copied, Neil. By memory the cuts promised by Rudd were rather small in comparison to the cuts offered by Howard. Rudd promised to put the extra money into infrastructure instead of buying votes. In the end, it actually won him votes. He made Howard’s offer look like a bribe, which in fact it was.

  71. They were Costello’s cuts which Labor copied during the 2007 election campaign.

    There is one major difference nil, Labor implemented them.

    There is no history within the howard government (the BIGGEST taxing one in our history) which indicates that these would have been treated as ‘core’ promises.

    Labor implemented them, Labor own them.

  72. Oh lookee here, some more of Labor’s achievements:

    We have also linked the rate of the age pension to a higher wages benchmark. The wages benchmark rate has increased for singles from 25 per cent to around 27.7 per cent of Male Total Average Weekly Earnings, an increase of more than 10 per cent. This new benchmark is now enshrined in legislation.

    We also introduced a Carer Supplement, paid annually in July, to eligible carers. Around 530,000 Australian carers are now $600 a year better off.

  73. “I hardly think they were copied”

    They were identical except for some small tweaking for higher income earners. They just copied the Libs tax policy holus bolus.

    I would think the main reduction in tax that Stephen Koukoulas is talking about is the decrease in tax receipts due to the GFC. Nothing to do with lower tax scales.

  74. Oh and lookee there at some more of Liberal’s failures:

    O’Farrell’s changes means that pensioners in NSW will have to find an extra $300pa and that’s before he sells of the energy producers that is estimated to add another $300pa to the pensioners costs.

    This is the Barry O’Farrell who moaned and groaned about every electricity price hike and how absolutely disgraceful and terrible it was in every voxpop and news piece he could get his mug onto when in opposition.

    Prices have gone up more under O’Farrell and are projected to go up much more if his policies are implemented.

    As an aside that should be in the media thread I noticed that in the last few days the NSW Labor opposition have been getting considerable airtime in highlighting some of O’Farrell’s more egregious policy failures. If they give as much time to the current opposition as they did for the Coalition when they were the opposition, then the media has stepped a long way to doing their job of holding governments to account, and the O’Farrell government really needs to be held to account, it is failing across the board and has now broken just about promise it made during the election along with failing to improve NSW in any way whatsoever, actually sending it backwards on just about every measure.

  75. By memory the cuts promised by Rudd were rather small in comparison to the cuts offered by Howard. “

    Your memory is not very good.

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/10/19/1192301016603.html

    “Mr Rudd’s scheme has also adopted most of the Howard Government’s tax cut promises, but would defer the government’s tax cuts for people earning over $180,000 a year, saving $2.9 billion………….Treasurer Peter Costello says Labor’s tax plan is “91.5 per cent the same” as the policy unveiled by the Coalition on Monday – but had the potential for a “huge hole” in it.

    “It is now clear he (Rudd) never had a tax plan,” Mr Costello told reporters in Melbourne.”

  76. It is now clear that the present Labor Government has a far less onerous taxation weight on the community than the howard government ever managed to achieve (no matter what they promised or claimed), who happened to be the MOST onerous.

    Hurts, doesn’t it 🙂

  77. Did Howard ever implement his promised tax cuts?

    Did Rudd implement tax cuts, which you said he didn’t?

    They are the Labor tax cuts and the records will show them as such.

    As Howard hardly kept any of his promises it’s almost certain he would have found some way of either reducing his promised tax cuts or not implementing them, except for the wealthy of course.

    If he did implement them he would have found ways of taxing elsewhere to more than makeup the shortfall. Howard was all about taxing.

  78. Lets not forget the many other cuts implemented by Labor, like the other one I showed above, that are scattered throughout the budget papers.

    It is because of the accumulation of all of these measures that Labor can now claim to be THE low Taxing Government

  79. So to sum up – our deficit is insignificant (and so will be the promised surplus), our debt is the lowest in the OECD, our credit rating is the highest possible and the demand for our bonds is unprecedented. Interest rate pressures are down, not up, and no-one in the financial markets – the people all this hairy chested rhetoric out of Canberra is aimed at – is losing a minute’s sleep over Australia.

    http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/

    Although, you wouldn’t know about it, the way the papers are rabbitting on this morning.

  80. I suspect that the lower tax intake is due to lower receipts due to the GFC.

    Labor just copied the Liberals taxation policy since they did not have one of their own.

    Labor has increased the excise on LPG.

    No. The ALP’s lower tax take is due to fall in capital gains receipts

  81. No mention of Hockey’s budget ‘costings’ in 2010, which were such a dog’s breakfast, and for which the accountants are STILL under investigation.”

    Well according to Treasury if you trust Treasury, the Coalitions policies gave a better result than Labors. Just not as good as the Coalition claimed.

    I do not know who did the ALP policies before submission to Treasury but I guess treasury may have done that also. So we may have treasury costing a ALP policy program that Treasury drew up.

    But who would trust Treasury anyway. Within 6 months the next forecast for the budget deficit has gone from $24B to $37B. That is a $13B black hole in just 6 months.

    And you lot want to talk about Abbott

  82. The opposition went to a $70 billion black hole overnight. That means in six months they would have created $126 trillion black hole.

  83. Mate. Such hatred. Your hatred of Conservatives clouds your judgement.

    At the moment it is an imaginery black hole since Abbott is not in govt.

    But we have a budget deficit almost doubling in just 6 months with the people who are in govt.

    How could anyone trust costings produced by Treasury??

  84. Neil going around in circles again. Bashing Treasury, but only if in his mind when they appear to favour the government or go against his beloved Liberals, is another tick of point for one of his fingers.

    When Treasury, and that was the exact same Treasury by the way, were projecting favourable data for Howard during his reign, Neil was all praise for them.

  85. Neil, are you saying if Mr. Abbott promises something, the government has no right to introduce similar policy.

    Surely the important thing should be, is it the right thing to do a this time. Does it matter who said it first.

    There is much that the government has rejected as well.

    Mr. Menzies was noted for adopting Mr. Caldwell’s electoral promises after an election.

    Neil, it might surprise you that there is really more that parties agree on than disagree.

    It is also wise to question what government and oppositions say.

    I think you will find that Labor took the tax cuts further, especially for power income earners.

    Labor has not promise to cut more that 12,000 PS positions as the

    Until Mr. Abbott takes the time and effort to give facts other than toxic government, bad taxes etc., what he has to say is meaningless.

    Neil, I notice by that link given yesterday, back three years, one would think you would have something new to say. Well at least change the way you say it.

  86. Pip, I do not understand what Neil’s fuss is about.

    If what Mr. Abbott allegedly proposed is the right thing to do, surely we expect he government to adopt it.

    Who are these stay at home mums.

    They are entitled to the baby bonus, if the family income up to 150.000 dollars.

    If it is OK for single parents to be forced back to work, why are they defending woman with husbands the right for support their desire not to work.

    Are stay at home mums a privilege part of society.

  87. Funny, what Neil has to say, is little different ffrom what we have had from Abott, Hockey and Robb today and yesterday.

    None of what they say, make much sense.

  88. When Treasury, and that was the exact same Treasury by the way, were projecting favourable data for Howard during his reign, Neil was all praise for them.”

    No, my point is that treasury gets it wrong lots of times. They got it wrong with Costello. His surplus budgets were always bigger than what Treasury predicted. Don’t you remember??

  89. No, my point is that treasury gets it wrong lots of times. They got it wrong with Costello. His surplus budgets were always bigger than what Treasury predicted. Don’t you remember??

    I certainly do and this was my reply yesterday and is exactly the same today. Don’t you remember ????

    Could that have been because of the booming economy and that the forecasts did not contain unexpected booms, just like they do not contain unexpected plunges ?

    To which you went off on another tangent.

  90. I certainly do and this was my reply yesterday and is exactly the same today. Don’t you remember ????

    I was replying to what Mobius said. I do not understand your point. And I do not recall praising Treasury as Mobius has stated

    https://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/friday-on-my-mind-part-two-end-of-the-political-year/#comment-48328

    beats me how anyone would trust Treasury. Unless of course it paints the Libs in a bad light. You lot seem to trust treasury when it allegedly finds a black hole in the Libs costings.

    Their latest adjustment to the forthcoming deficit is amazing. It is going to be almost double what it was just 6 months ago.

  91. beats me how anyone would trust Treasury. Unless of course it paints the Libs in a bad light. You lot seem to trust treasury when it allegedly finds a black hole in the Libs costings.

    I hope you remember all these insinuations and disbeliefs for the next time the coalition is in power, because the internet holds comments forever and bacchus can find something very quickly if you choose to suddenly change your opinion.

    For the record I trust Treasury no matter what government is in office over the rantings of any politcial party.

  92. AntonyG

    I agree, in addition Neil always revolves around to the same comments and claims and disbeliefs, over and over again. I am beginning to think I need to double post all of my comments that respond to a Neil question in one spot to simply drag them out and post them again. Just like bacchus did for me regarding US deficits and the deceit of the conservatives in accusing Obama of causing the mess they are in.

  93. Shaneinqld,
    My head is in a spin from Neil’s arguments going around and around in circles. I would however be happy if he would explain his rash generalisations such as “beats me how any would trust Treasury” without providing one single piece of factual evidence as to why Treasury should not be trusted.

    Perhaps if he has some evidence to prove this then he should be penning a letter to his local MP to demand an enquiry into Treasury. Otherwise it’s nothing more than hot air.

  94. Perhaps if he has some evidence to prove this then he should be penning a letter to his local MP to demand an enquiry into Treasury.”

    How about the latest adjustment by Treasury. Six months ago they were forecasting a $24B deficit. In the MYEFO it has been adjusted to a $37B deficit. This in the space of 6 months.

    Treasury does seem poor in predicting the future.

  95. How about the latest adjustment by Treasury. Six months ago they were forecasting a $24B deficit. In the MYEFO it has been adjusted to a $37B deficit. This in the space of 6 months.

    Could that be because the world economy is entering a second crisis phase and they are now making adjustments that were not evident 6 months ago, or do you think they have a crystal ball thats sees the future and therefore their future estimates and budgets should be exact.

  96. Neil,
    Just accept that the economy isn’t etched in concrete. As Shaneinqld has suggested it is highly likely that a good portion of the rest of the world is looking at a double dip recession.

    There are other things which cannot be factored in such as cyclones, floods, fires and budgets have to be adjusted to take account for unforeseen circumstances.

  97. Just accept that the economy isn’t etched in concrete.”

    I agree. They always got the forecasts wrong for Costello. His surpluses were always bigger than predicted. Those were the days. When we used to talk about how big the surplus was going to be.

    But you people seem awfully sure that the costings performed by Treasury on the Coalitions policies are correct.

    Even if they were, treasury stated that the Coalitions policies gave a better bottom line. Just not as good as they claimed.

  98. Neil,
    One thing in life that I figured out a long time ago is to never go by appearances and to never take anyone for granted, hence the reason why you continuous use of the term “you lot” rubs me the wrong way.

    The proof as always will be in the doing, if Swan is able to deliver his surplus and has been able to save Australia from the horrendous financial situation of a good portion of Europe and the US, then he will have earned his title of the World’s Best Treasurer, and double.

  99. FEDERAL Opposition Leader Tony Abbott will not yet commit to reinstating the Federal Government’s cut to the baby bonus.
    The bonus for new parents will be cut from $5400 to $5000 in Budget savings announced yesterday.

    Mr Abbott said it was evidence the Government was creating “forgotten families”.

    Mr Abbott was visiting a Brisbane laundry business….

    Seems appropriate…

    http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/tony-abbott-hedges-on-baby-bonus-cut/story-e6frfkur-1226210198449#ixzz1fAXmtfg1

  100. if Swan is able to deliver his surplus and has been able to save Australia from the horrendous financial situation of a good portion of Europe and the US, then he will have earned his title of the World’s Best Treasurer, and double.”

    So it is all due to Swanny is it?? Wow, what a man.

    Nothing to do with we hit the GFC with zero govt debt allowing him more room to borrow and spend than most other countries.

    You people are fools. If our debt is so small and so easy to handle let us see him pay it off.

    I remember Gillard saying it was like having a $100,000 salary having a $6,000 mortgage. Well I could pay that loan off in a couple of months on that salary. If it is so easy let use see him do it.

  101. Just passing the TV, unfortunate enough to see standard Abbott, ridiculing & opposing everything, promising nothing (who’d believe him?). Fuckwit.

  102. Yes things are really crook in Australia under a Labor government…

    Mining leads surge in business investment

    Mining investment led the rise, up 22.1 per cent, but there was also a surprise increase in the manufacturing sector, which jumped 9.8 per cent.

    “Other” investment rose 4.1 per cent.

    CommSec chief economist Craig James says the result is the largest gain since June quarter 1996, with spending a record 31.1 per cent higher than a year ago.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-30/capital-expenditure-third-quarter/3704484

  103. Robb’s only sensible comment is “there are two budgets to go before an election” – the rest of it is 14 minutes 24 seconds of my life that I’ll never get back and reminded me of Bjelke-Petersen at his “best”. That he is the alternative Finance Minister in a Abbott Government – be afraid, be very afraid.

    And Abbott is apparently on Lateline tonight! Wonder if he can do better?

  104. Yes, Mobius, there is only one left now that el gordo has gone.

    El gordo did a cut and run because she ran out of bullshit. Bullshit is not a good resource to take into a discussion/argument/debate etc.

    In Neil’s case I think there’s some ignorance. One per cent ignorance and 99 per cent annoyance.

    But we love him.

  105. It’s not wise to point the finger at anyone on behalf of Tony Abbott’s election campaign….

    MEMO:- Tony Abbott slept through key vote
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/abbott-snoozed-through-key-vote/story-e6freuzr-1111119064644

    TONY Abbott missed the key economic vote of the new Parliament – the $42 billion fiscal stimulus package – because he fell asleep after a night of drinking witnessed by MPs from both sides of Parliament.
    Mr Abbott told Chief Opposition Whip Alex Somlyay that he missed five divisions on the night of Thursday, February 12 because he fell asleep in his office.

    His nap followed dinner in the Members’ Dining Room with Peter Costello, Kevin Andrews and Peter Dutton, where numerous bottles of wine were consumed.

    ** Journo Steve Lewis of ‘Godwin’s shonky email’ fame is still doing his bit for the Coalition, spreading the news for Alex Somlyay, who is no friend of Peter Slipper.
    Is there a connection to the veiled offering from Tony Abbott on Lateline about ‘the first six months of next year’ ?

    Are the Libs plotting to force Mr. Slipper out of Parliament, due to a a drink problem, in the ‘first six months of next year’ by any chance ?
    If so, at least half of the seats currently occupied would be empty !

    New Speaker Peter Slipper warned about alcohol abuse
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/new-speaker-peter-slipper-warned-about-alcohol-abuse/story-e6frea6u-1226210706641

  106. And the end of the political year ends with huge pay rises for the pollies.

    As ABC News Breakfast stated this morning it’s the first time they have not heard Abbott say NO.

    I’m for this rise because at the same time it gets rid of some of the most rorted perks like the Gold Card, which is costing $10 million pa, the education travel allowance and the electoral allowance overhang.

  107. Nah Min, it’s the Treasury;s fault, they are shonky and not to be trusted.

    On the other hand Liberal Party outsourced accountants given a brief to produce a predetermined figure are above board and always to be trusted.

  108. “On the other hand Liberal Party outsourced accountants given a brief to produce a predetermined figure are above board and always to be trusted.”

    You people are fools. You people look at Labor, debt debt debt, quick look over there at Gillard. You people just hate Abbott and will always call him dishonest even though he’s not. You people hate Howard because he was so great and good.

    You people don’t know Labor is bad bad bad and Liberals are great great great. Quick look over there at Keating debt, worst ever ever ever, debt debt debt. Liberals never have debt but Treasurer Howard’s was very good debt so wasn’t debt and anyway only look at Labor not at Liberal.

    Look at Labor, they can’t do anything right and stuff up EVERYTHING they touch. It is all failures, nothing has been successful. You people don’t understand that.

    Oh and did I mention Labor debt.

    What was that post about again?

    (just getting in first)

  109. Re (just getting in first) thank goodness you let us know Mobius, for a moment there I thought that you had been kidnapped 😉

  110. Geoff, I try not to accuse people of being morons, bu in your case, i’ll make an exception. You are a grade A, triple distilled twin overhead cam moron! Were you born that way or have you worked hard to become so stupid?

    I won’t bother providing the link to Gillard’s election eve speech, you’ve no doubt been provided with that many times, but choose not to read it. Suffice to say, you know very well no promises were broken. As promised there will be a price imposed on carbon emissions.

    The rest of your rant is just Liars party talking points devoid of truth or meaning, pretty much like everything that falls out of the Liars party and their cheerleaders’ gobs.

    AntonyG @4.20pm 30/11, Like his heroes in the Liars party, Derailer doesn’t deal in facts, just Liars Party lies, innuendo, obfuscation, gossip and misrepresentation.

    It’s also interesting that he talks about Liars Party policy when we all know they haven’t got one, unless just saying NO constitutes a policy. Although brain farts can be used at a pinch!

    2353 @9.01pm, sadly another standard Liealot performance

    On the other hand Liberal Party outsourced accountants given a brief to produce a predetermined figure are above board and always to be trusted.

    Yes, ME, they’re as honest as the day is long. Ooops! must be the shortest day! lol

    Interesting read on Alzheimer’s prevention from an email I received. Note especially the link to education and preventing Alzheimer’s-blows Liealot’s cavalier attitude to educating our youth wide open.

  111. Thanks Min. You are a heroine! I’ll now refuse to let myself be interrupted while I winkle out the link.

  112. MINISTER FOR FINANCE AND DEREGULATION

    Media Release
    261/11
    1 December 2011

    Opposition Dishonesty on Costings Revealed
    http://www.financeminister.gov.au/media/2011/mr_2612011.html

    The Coalition’s economic credibility is in tatters after a finding that the accountants who costed its 2010 election policies breached professional standards.

    A tribunal of the Institute of Chartered Accountants fined the two Perth-based accountants $5000 each because their costings of Coalition policies failed to contain a “statement that the procedures performed do not constitute either an audit or a review”.

    This is despite the fact that Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey has repeatedly claimed the dodgy costings were an audit.

    “You know what if the fifth biggest accounting firm in Australia signs off on our numbers it is a brave person to start saying they’re accounting tricks. I tell you it is an audit, this is an audited statement.’’
    JOE HOCKEY – ABC AM – 19 AUGUST 2010

  113. The whole issue seems to be extremely suspicious..the fact that Hockey called it an ‘audit’ yet these accountants have been fined for omitting this exact same information from its paperwork.

  114. Pip
    None of this on the news bulletins I watched tonight. A problem is that the media has “skin in the game” as Shakespeare puts it. They energetically ignored the opposition’s refusal to have their policies properly costed during the election, so this reflects badly on them.

  115. They energetically ignored the opposition’s refusal to have their policies properly costed during the election, so this reflects badly on them.”

    Do you remember what Rudd did in 2007??

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/late-alp-policies-a-ploy-to-avoid-costing-costello/2007/11/22/1195321951582.html

    “Peter Costello said yesterday that Labor leader Kevin Rudd had run “a very tricky little operation”. He released a detailed tally suggesting that Labor handed in just 20% of its policies to the Treasury and Finance department by the November 15 cut-off date.

    The Treasury and Finance website appeared to confirm that Labor submitted 32 policies before the deadline, with 132 released after the cut-off, including 104 that were handed in with three working days or less until the election.

    “By submitting 104 policies with three working days or less to the election, Labor knew they could either not be costed or, if they were, it would be too late for any critical analysis,” Mr Costello said.”

  116. Neil,
    I personally believe that the whole issue of opposition costings should be re-evaluated because at present these can only be submitted once an election is called and I believe even then are not in confidence.

    This option was suggested by Ross Gittins,

    “A parliamentary budget office has the potential to greatly improve the quality of the debate about how much election promises would cost and how they would be paid for, imposing greater discipline on the parties.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/a-parliamentary-office-could-take-the-babel-out-of-preelection-budgets-20110918-1kftx.html#ixzz1fHBNWUUP

  117. Neil, I don’t suppose you have any info on Mr. Costello’s record on this subject ?

    Or any other Treasurer over the last few decades ….never mind, I understand, you are only interested in Labor’s ‘mis-deeds’.

  118. AnthonyG

    Thanks for the link. It gave me an answer which I had suspected

    “This is fine for governments, which are able to privately bombard the departments with requests to cost a host of possible policies before the election is called. In a process of iteration, treasurers are able to refine their proposals in the light of advice.

    Then, once the election is called, they announce their policies and bowl them up to be ticked by the same people who costed them in the first place.”

    The reason there were no great black hole in Swans costings is that they were costed by Treasury before they were submitted.

    It should be remembered the reason why the Coalition used the accountancy firm. Someone, either Swan or someone from Swans office leaked details of the costings. The Federal police were called in and then the Coalition refused to submit any more policies for costing to Treasury

  119. Neil
    Nice try at derailing, however the point is that Hockey’s stuff was never costed at all. Some arithmetic was checked as being correct, nothing more.
    “…it would be too late for critical analysis”, the media had all the time in the world to apply some of that to Abbott & didn’t, still aren’t doing much of it, as the lack of reporting of today’s events would seem to prove.

  120. BSA Bob, I have a sneaking suspician that the Liberal costings debacle is a topic Neil will repeatedly stay clear of. Be on the lookout for a string of “Hey, look over heres”.

  121. Nice try at derailing, however the point is that Hockey’s stuff was never costed at all.”

    Not true. They started submitting their policies for costing and Wayne Swan leaked some of the results so they stopped submitting them.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/australian-federal-police-consider-coalitions-treasury-leak-investigation-request/story-fn59niix-1225905001849

    “FEDERAL police have confirmed they are still considering a request to investigate leaks from Treasury that have led the Coalition to withhold some of its policies from the election campaign costing process. ……The Coalition will also not be meeting today’s 5pm deadline for lodging its election promises with Treasury for review and costing because it believes leak had “put a cloud” over the department’s integrity.”

    If Swan did not leak some of the results they would have been submitted. They went elsewhere after that.

  122. Sue, can you imagine Mal Brough’s displeasure at Peter Slipper’s promotion ?

    All those plots and dreams….will have to wait.

  123. The libs probably got some of their own to “leak” the results so that they could go to some trusted accountants. The leak was just too convenient and as proved the liberal costings were just dodgy.

  124. The leak was just too convenient and as proved the liberal costings were just dodgy.

    Actually Treasury said the Coalitions policies gave a better budget bottom line and were therefore the better policies. It just wasn’t the $11B improvement the Coalition claimed.

  125. ???? They were eventually submitted to Treasury.

    WE must remember that this is all Swans fault. If he did not leak the findings of the policies that the Coalition had submitted none of this problem would have happened. The Federal Police were called in and then the Coalition used that accountancy firm because Swan had politicsed the whole process

  126. Neil, no-one has ever proved the identity of the so-called ‘leaker’.
    You are making this up as you go along, or, you are spruiking the Liberal nonsense.

  127. Well the Federal Police found that whoever leaked the Coalition costings had the right to do so. Since it is a crime for the PS to leak such things the conclusion was it was Swan or someone from Swans office since they have the right to leak such things.

  128. whoever leaked the Coalition costings had the right to do so… it was Swan or someone from Swans office since they have the right to leak such things.

    The submitters of such costings also “have the right” to leak such costings Neil. Let’s ad 2 + 2 together, shall we? Who was the only potential beneficiary from such a leak? I submit that it was in fact the Lieberals who had the most to gain from this.

    Labor in opposition had been caught out by the Costello “gotcha” from the Howard years that required them to submit their policies for costings without the benefit of having Treasury model those policies first. Costello et al caught out the Labor opposition when it suited them, but the Lieberals were then caught in their own web when they became the opposition 😆

  129. BSA Bob, that’s the only idea that makes any sense, and the proof was in the act of hiring an accountancy firm to do their bidding.
    The worst of it is that they’ll ultimately get away with it thanks to the deafening silence at ltd news and the ABC.

  130. The submitters of such costings also “have the right” to leak such costings Neil. Let’s ad 2 + 2 together, shall we? Who was the only potential beneficiary from such a leak? I submit that it was in fact the Lieberals who had the most to gain from this”

    O.K. Bacchus. The Federal Police police found that whoever leaked had the right to do so. If it was a Liberal who leaked surely the police could charge them with making a false complaint?? I would think Robb would be in big trouble if he filed a complaint and then the Police found it was someone from the Liberal party

    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/robb-points-finger-at-swan-for-leak/story-e6frfku9-1225925335563

    “The Australian Federal Police found that no criminal offence has been committed because whoever leaked the document was authorised to distribute such material,” he said in a statement issued today.

    “The only people authorised to do so is the Treasurer or one or two of his senior staff.”

  131. http://www.afp.gov.au/media-centre/news/afp/2010/september/finalisation-of-referral-in-relation-to-unauthorised-disclosure-of-financial-documents.aspx

    “he Australian Federal Police (AFP) has completed an evaluation in relation to a referral received from the Opposition Finance spokesman Andrew Robb MP in relation to unauthorised disclosure of financial documents.

    The evaluation did not identify any Commonwealth offences.

    As such, no further investigation will be undertaken.

    This matter was finalised on 14 September 2010.

    It is not appropriate for the AFP to comment any further.”

  132. Wow
    that sounds so similar to the referral that Brandis did with the NSW police.

    So in Nils link the referral from Robb was a nonsense as far as AFP concerned, no case. So all the huffing and puffing by Libs was just BS.
    In fact the huff and puff bluster could just have been the cover for what has been subsequently PROVED The Libs were LYING to the electorate that THEIR costings were AUDITED.

  133. No Case??? The finding was that no Commonwealth Offense had been committed. Someone leaked the costings. If it was Treasury official a Commonwealth offense would have been committed and they could be charged.

    So it had to be someone who had the right to release such things. If it was the Liberals they could have been charged with making a false complaint. Wayne Swan and his office have the right to release such things.

    Swan was obviously playing politics.

  134. Nil
    have a read again

    ‘The Australian Federal Police (AFP) has completed an evaluation in relation to a referral received from the Opposition Finance spokesman Andrew Robb MP in relation to unauthorised disclosure of financial documents.

    The evaluation did not identify any Commonwealth offences. ”

    Robb sent an accusation, the AFP who did an evaluation of the Robb accusations, their were no Commonwealth offences.

    The leak point is not identified, the only beneficiary of the leak were the Liberals, who then chose their own accountants and a dodgy “audit” was hatched.
    Next thing Nil you will claim is that the dodgy “audit’ was somehow hatched by the govt BUT the deal was DONE by the accountants and the DODGY BROTHERS, Hockey and Robb.

    LEAK led to Liberal accountants, DODGY deal struck led to LYING to electorate by referral to Liberal costings as “AUDITED”

    Lying Liberals exposed Nil. The trail of lies goes back to the source and who benefited it was not the electorate nor the government just the LYING LIBERALS.

  135. Neil re “The Australian Federal Police found that no criminal offence has been committed because whoever leaked the document was authorised to distribute such material,” he said in a statement issued today.

    Therefore your complaint is that someone distributed information that they had the right to distribute. This argument sort of resembles someone complaining about someone driving a car when they have a valid driver’s licence.

  136. Swan was obviously playing politics.

    Really I would never ever have known that policiticans play politics 🙄 . They all play politics and most also play dirty at times behind the scenes ( not illegal just dirty). We only ever find out about those who are inadvertantly caught.

    To take some moral high ground for the consevatives over the leaking of information is just totally false when you look at the leaking of information to the opposition over the last 4 years. Which they have gleefully used to attack the government.

    Finding a leak is difficult. Blaming someone without evidence purely on political bitterness is disgusting. How would you like accusations over an incident levelled at you Neil with no proof ?

  137. shaneinqld

    and worse for nil if it was found that a leak about nil was to nil’s advantage,.

    This whole leaking episode, it is like when a murder investigation is on and the police let a “person” have a tearful plea, on tv, then later the “person” is arrested.

    Who benefited from the Leak, who made a dodgy deal with accountants, who claimed the costings were audited?

  138. This whole leaking episode

    All of these bloody leaks, and yet they were all so surprised when the most obvious ploy with Slipper was pulled.

    Yes nil, they couldn’t find any evidence of wrongdoing, so it must be Swans fault

    Or hockeys?

    Or robbs?

    The beauty about this is, the libs were burnt by the same policy that Labor had had to work under for so long, and now, all of a sudden, it is crap policy. Well, it is their crap policy. Sucked in I say.

    Oh, and hockey has busted LYING TO THE PUBLIC.

    But will we hear about it from their msm?

  139. Finding a leak is difficult.

    O.K. I agree with you about the hypocrisy. e.g Grech

    But the Federal Police did come to a conclusion. They did find who did the leaking and concluded that no Commonwealth offense had been committed. It would have been a Commonwealth offense if Treasury or anyone else in the PS had leaked the information. So whoever did the leaking had the right to do so.

    It is unlikely to be the Liberals because the Federal police would have charged them with making a false complaint. The only other person who had the right to leak the details was Wayne Swan. He cannot be prosecuted for leaking the information because he had the right to do so.

    And if Swan did not leak the info the Coalition would never have approached that accounting firm to do the costings

  140. They did find who did the leaking

    No they didn’t, they said they couldn’t find any offence that had been committed

    “The evaluation did not identify any Commonwealth offences”

    Not the same thing. Your other quote is robb twisting it in the same way you are attempting to. They did not identify the leaks source. Only that it didn’t come from Treasury (as far as they could tell)

  141. And if Swan did not leak the info the Coalition would never have approached that accounting firm to do the costings

    And there was a story at the time that exposed the fact that this firm had been approached well before this all happened about costing their policies.

    Curious.

  142. It is a Commonwealth offense for the Public Service to leak Coalition policies/costings so to say that the police could not find any offense is lying.

    The Federal Police found that no Commonwealth offense had been committed.

    If they did not find out who did the leaking why did they not say so. They could have stated that they could not find the source of the link.

    The police were specific. Whoever leaked had the right to do so.

  143. The Federal Police found that no Commonwealth offense had been committed.

    No nil, they said they couldn’t find an offence.

  144. “So it could have been robb”

    Have you any idea the trouble you could get into by making a false complaint to the police. You are insane to even make that statement..

    Couldn’t find any offense?? It is an offense for the PS to leak things. They found that no Commonwealth offense had been committed.

  145. Now some murky business that was happening before the “leak”

    Let’s go back 10 days or so before the election when Opposition Leader Tony Abbott started hinting he might not submit his policies for costing by Treasury and Finance in accordance with the Charter of Budget Honesty but might instead have them ‘‘independently and authoritatively costed by a third party’’.

    We now know the third party was the Perth office of a chain of independently owned accounting firms that had been quietly working with the Coalition since mid-June, back when Kevin Rudd was prime minister.

    What it was asked to do was murky at the time and has become more murky since…

    Joe Hockey believed he had had an audit. They have certified our numbers, based on all the information we have provided them. They have legal obligations and legal risks. I tell you, it is audited. This is an audited statement.’’
    Andrew Robb drew the Perth office of WHK Horwath even more tightly in the world of legal responsibility, saying its work was better than Treasury’s because, ‘‘if they make a mistake with the auditing of accounts for companies or prospectuses or mislead, they are at risk of being punished and going to jail, not Treasury’’.
    http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/09/thursday-column-could-constingsgate.html

    Yes the Lying Liberals had a major cover up going on.
    Lying to the electorate about costings
    Lying to the electorate about Treasury officials,
    Lying to electorate that costings audited
    Lying to electorate, accountants had legal responsibilities
    Lying to electorate accountants better than treasury

    Liar Hockey, “I tell you, it is audited
    Liar Liberals had more to gain from “leak”

  146. They found that no Commonwealth offense had been committed.

    They found that they couldn’t find an offense

    Which leaves at least three (possibly more) scenarios

    It was Labor

    It was Liberal

    It was Treasury (who left no trail)

  147. Liar Liberals had more to gain from “leak”

    Well the the Federal Police should charge Robb with making a false complaint. In fact I hope the police do charge Robb if he made a false complaint.

    It was Swan who did the leaking causing all this trouble. And he gets off without any damage.

    “They found that they couldn’t find an offense”

    What a load of crap. Man you people are deceitful. If they couldn’t find the source of the leak why did they just say so. They found who leaked and the leaker did not commit a Commonwealth offense.

  148. Maybe the Accounting firm Howarth can start proceedings for all the “good” publicity Robb has created with this :

    “Andrew Robb drew the Perth office of WHK Horwath even more tightly in the world of legal responsibility, saying its work was better than Treasury’s because, ‘‘if they make a mistake with the auditing of accounts for companies or prospectuses or mislead, they are at risk of being punished and going to jail, not Treasury’’.

    But who did the misleading and who benefited from the misleading

    “I tell you, it is audited. This is an audited statement.”

    Lying Liberals

  149. Neil, it’s not an offence to make a complaint.

    Please read it again…

    The Australian Federal Police found that no criminal offence has been committed because whoever leaked the document was authorised to distribute such material,” he said in a statement issued today.

    It’s not that ‘they couldn’t find the source of the leak’ but that in finding the source of the leak discovered that this particular person had the right to distribute the material. I wonder…now who would have been ‘authorised’?

  150. I cannot believe you people. YOU LOT started all this trouble by leaking the costings. The Coalition had started to submit their policies and then some of the Treasury results were leaked by Swan

    Shame on you people for causing all this trouble.

  151. Here we are again going over the same old ground on something with Neil.

    That whole thing, with almost the exact same responses, sources and information has been debated before with Neil, and he just throws back the exact same attacks on Swan and innuendos he did the last times, yet here you all are wasting your time and energy giving him lucid and logical information with facts, sources and quotes he will completely ignore so he can then bring up the same attack a few months or more down the track yet again for you to waste your time in responses he will completely ignore.

  152. Mobius..ever felt as if you’re invisible and what you write is likewise invisible 🙄

    This one suddenly came to mind…

  153. Abbott making speech about higher taxes, higher debt. bad news for
    Autralian families, stop the boats, blah blah blah.

    There’s even footage of the Rabbott watching the Conference

    Meanwhile, at the ALP National Conference Wayne Swan says
    “Our opponents have an extreme ideology which simply says that productivity is derived by slashing pay and conditions.”

  154. It is unlikely to be the Liberals because the Federal police would have charged them with making a false complaint.

    What utter garbage, politcians make complaints which are unfounded all of the time, they are called Rumours or Innuendo. You know Neil, the words you use so many , many times, there are rumours here and rumours there and accusations here and there.

    If you have proof Swan leaked then provide it, otherwise you are simply being a mouthpiece of the conservative negativity whinging club.

  155. “The libs probably got some of their own to “leak” the results so that they could go to ”

    The first question one should ask, who has something to gain by the release.

    What did Mr. Swan have, nothing really to gain.

    What did Mr. Robb and his cohorts have to gain.

    They needed the leak, to justify not using Treasury.

    They knew their numbers were suspect.

    I am sure that Mr. Greche is not the only mole they have in Treasury.

    They intend to continue this behaviour at the next election. They refused to work with the government to get a better way of assessing promises made before the election.

    This was another “no” from Mr. Abbott.

    The Coalition under the auspices of Mr. Abbott do not believe in budget honestly. They do not believe in having their promises audited.

  156. I see that the polpularity of the negativity stream from the Tea Party and the Republicans is now turning against them. The polls are showing the voters are over the negativity and are going against the Tea Party and Republicans.

    I have no doubt the same will happen here if Abbott and the extremists keep up the negativity. If they don’t change tack next year and stop mouthing the words Deb, Pink Batts, BER etc etc then they will continue to slide in te polls in my opinion.

  157. Shane, it still gets back to what the Feds said, that the person who leaked the document had the authority to “distribute such material”.

  158. Still on ALP conference, Wayne Swan said that Aust economy 6% larger than it was prior to the GFC.

    The PM said “In 2012 we will cut taxes, lift family payments and lift the pension.”

    Also, cut company tax, lift super & build new infrastructure, and create tens of thousands of jobs.

    Motivated by the very best of Labor traditions: to create prosperity and spread opportunity.

  159. O’Fiberal has a plan.

    Forced reform may backfire on Liberals
    This op-ed was originally posted in today’s Sydney Morning Herald and coincides with the ALP national conference.

    http://brucehawker.com/2011/12/02/forced-reform-may-backfire-on-liberals/

    Fifty per cent of the delegates at this year’s ALP national conference will be representatives of affiliated unions. It used to be higher. But this arrangement, which has ensured the Labor Party’s financial security, could soon end.

    Unfortunately, the reason for this change is unlikely to be the result of any political epiphany by those who control the Labor Party. Rather, it will be a piece of legislation recently introduced into the NSW Parliament by the Premier, Barry O’Farrell.

    The bill forbids unions from paying affiliation fees to the ALP and seeks to ban unions from donating to a political party. If similar laws are adopted by incoming Liberal governments around the country then it will only be a matter of time before unions are effectively forced to disaffiliate.

    No mention, of course, about the corporate donations.

  160. Min

    Still doesn’t make it moral.

    The employers had the right to deny annual leave to their employees under Fair Work Australia. Doesn’t make it moral.

  161. Deficit bad, surplus good in political Narnia narrative
    Tim Dunlop

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3705794.html

    Yes, you might read articles by various experts explaining why a deficit isn’t so bad, but the underlying narrative hasn’t changed, and any Labor government that departed from the script, no matter how justified, would not be quietly applauded for their honesty, as Mr Shanahan implies, but would be vilified as promise-breakers and economic incompetents.

  162. What utter garbage, politcians make complaints which are unfounded all of the time, they are called Rumours or Innuendo.

    Not to the police. Are you serious??? It is an offense to make a false claim to the police. In fact I think you can be charged for doing such a thing.

  163. He’s totally correct in his assertion too Pip

    I mean, considering the reaction of the murdoch press to the Governments handling of the GFC (which by all informed accounts was exemplary) it is obvious what their reaction will be assuming the world enters GFCII and the Government is unable to reveal a surplus because of that.

    Still waiting on them to shine some light on hockey though.

  164. Ok Neil, I’ll give it a try. It is not unlawful to go to the police and say, I suspect that my neighbor has a meth lab in his garden shed. The police upon their investigation discover that the neighbor’s wife has done a short course in Bach Flower Remedies and decided to set up a small backyard business in extracting flower essence.

    Would the police then bolt up to the neighbor’s door and be able to arrest the neighbor for making a ‘false claim’. Clearly not.

  165. Neil, are you serious. Only under criminal law.”

    O.K. what have I said that is wrong?? I thought making a false declaration to the police is a crime. Am I wrong???

  166. Neil, the moot point is knowing and wittingly having falsified a declaration which is akin to a Stat Dec – compared with – making a complaint.

    Clearly as per my somewhat frivolous answer, if a person could be arrested for nothing more than making a complaint that this would hinder police and law enforcement – because nobody would for fear of arrest (this does happen in some countries BTW) would ever go to the police on ‘a suspicion’.

  167. The “complaint” was a criminal offense. The leaking of information from the Public Service which everyone knew about since the leaked data was in the newspapers. If the police had found out that Robb himself had done the leaking i think he would be in real trouble.

  168. * What did Mr Robb “declare” to the AFP? He told them he thought there was a leak in Treasury. Pretty hard to prove such an allegation is false, and they essentially said it wasn’t false anyway – someone did leak the document…

    * Any Liberal, whether elected or not, has the right to leak the information once it is provided to them by Treasury. Who was it? Hockey? One of the hacks?

    * Who had the most to gain from the leak?

  169. Neil,

    You are talking through a hole in your………head…

    Pardon but WTF are you talking about. The Federal Police stated specifically that who ever leaked the information had authority to release the aforementioned information. When is a leak not a leak I might enquire. It’s not a leak if the person who released the information had the authority to do so.

  170. “ou are talking through a hole in your………head…”

    Not really. I was making the point that Robb would be in serious trouble if he went to the police with a false complaint.

    If he was the leaker the police could charge him with a false statement

  171. Neil, bull shizzer because it’s not a criminal offence. Please read what you wrote yourself, from the link which you provided yourself..the leaker had authority to release the document.

    Or am I missing something….

  172. “Fifty per cent of the delegates at this year’s ALP national conference will be representatives of affiliated unions. It used to be higher. But this arrangement, which has ensured the Labor Party’s financial security, could soon end”

    I am one that believes there maybe many positives in the two arms of the Labor movement separating. it works OK in the UK.

    We are one of the few countries that have the two arms joined.

    I believed that there is more to be gained by competition between the two.

    I would be surprised if you seen the Liberals move away from their big business connections. I believe not.

    if this occurred, the Liberals would no longer have anything to be jealous or complain about. Labor will still find funding.

    I do not believe that even the Liberals would go as far as doing away with freedom of association.

    It is a little like the Liberals belief that secret ballots would cut strikes. It is my feeling that many would vote for a strike but not put their hand up in public.

  173. Why don’t you ask them at headquarters who the leaker was Neil? Hockey, Abbott, Pyne, Bishop, Bishop, Bernardi, Truss, Joyce, Morrison, Ruddock, Erica, Minchin, etc, etc? Any of their staff? Plenty to choose from there… 😆

  174. Neil gets so obsessed with things of little importance that he always misses the big picture.

    That is that the Liberals were not going have their figures analysyed at the last election or at the next.

  175. True CU, and disgusting considering it was Costello who introduced the requirement that the opposition have their costings done by treasury as a ‘gotcha’ on Labor in opposition.

    They don’t like it when they have to live by their own rules when they win the opposition benches…

  176. “Neil, bull shizzer because it’s not a criminal offence.”

    It is a criminal offense to make a false statement. One of us is missing something because it seems clear to me that Robb would be in trouble for wasting police time if he was the one who leaked the data.

    They don’t like it when they have to live by their own rules when they win the opposition benches…”

    If Swan didn’t leak there would have been no trouble.

  177. What Mr Robb actually said in his letter to federal police Neil:

    In the context of a federal election campaign, the security of the records and the integrity of professional officers employed by commonwealth central agencies is a matter of high national importance,” his letter states.

    “In particular, the Treasury’s role is such that it must be expected to act with complete impartiality and integrity in the critical costing of proposed expenditure and savings policies of the Coalition and the Labor Party.

    “At the moment, the uncertainty surrounding the identity of the source of the leak has placed a huge cloud over the integrity of the costing process and is preventing the satisfactory conclusion of this critical exercise.”

    It is a request to investigate – not a “false statement” 🙄

    Chris Bowen had them pegged at the time:

    “What a pathetic stunt and an excuse. This Opposition will do anything to avoid economic scrutiny. They set up the charter of budget honesty. They won’t comply with it on this pathetic excuse this is quite a scandal,” he told ABC radio.

    “We have nine days to go till the election and the Opposition is refusing the scrutiny of the charter of budget honesty which they established in government.”

  178. He goes Neil again, round and round. Swan didn’t lead but he will keep saying he did even though he has absolutely no evidence.

    And to show Neil’s absolute double standards when a Secret document that was important to national security was leaked from Alexander Downer’s office Neil was defending Downer and the Howard government. That was a far more grave and serious matter that carries up to 20 years in jail.

    Neil only seems to want to apportion blame when its Labor and evidence is strictly optional, but with the shoe on the other foot it’s still Labor’s or you lots fault for apportioning blame on the Liberals with your inconvenient evidence.

  179. Not to the police. Are you serious??? It is an offense to make a false claim to the police. In fact I think you can be charged for doing such a thing

    What was the exact report and claim made to the police over this incident ?.

    I suggest you talk to a police officer and ask him how many false claims are given to a police officer every day regarding any type of offences that do not result in a charge or investigation and are simply ignored due to their frivolous nature.

  180. Just went to grab a few things at ALDI including some longlife milk.

    The longlife milk used to be Australian, but guess what, it is now from New Zealand. The last milk purchase at ALDI form this black duck.

  181. It is a request to investigate – not a “false statement””

    Don’t agree.

    I also noticed in you article Swan said this

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/robb-asks-australian-federal-police-to-investigate-treasury-leak/story-fn59niix-1225904407644

    “In a separate statement, Mr Robb said: “Wayne Swan has arrogantly dismissed the Coalition’s calls to confirm whether this leak came from him or his office or from within the Treasury itself.”

    If Swan didn’t leak why did he not deny it?? I say it proves he is guilty.

    And I do not like Bowen comments. This is what labor did in 2007

    ““By submitting 104 policies with three working days or less to the election, Labor knew they could either not be costed or, if they were, it would be too late for any critical analysis,” Mr Costello said.””

  182. Neil “By submitting 104 policies with three working days or less to the election, Labor knew they could either not be costed or, if they were, it would be too late for any critical analysis,” Mr Costello said.””

    For heavens sake Neil, try googling for standard procedure. Haven’t you read a scrap previous. That has been the whinge of oppositions since Adam was a wee slip of a lad, the time frame allowed for oppositions to be able to submit their costings and can only do so once an election is called. And once submitted it is not ‘in confidence’.

    A cover version of the Fats Domino classic..by Springsteen..

  183. Yes Shane 🙄 🙄

    It’s an indication that Neil has run out of arguments. It’ll back to debt & deficit or asylum seekers shortly…

  184. Oh good, music….I know that it’s lollypop music, but I know that I’m into something good. He held my hand and I knew that I was into something gooood…

  185. Migs, one in Pending of which a small portion is as per below..I took the liberty of deleting this comment. Mind you we on this blog would not like to earn ourselves some sort of rep for deletions, however given the text below..I thought Nah, that I would bite the bullet and delete it.

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