Qantas – I Still Call Australia Home?

Qantas and Employees have been engaged in a routine industrial dispute for 7 months so why has this been elevated to a “National Emergency” status ? What possible circumstances could be in play that makes this dispute worthy of closer examination.

The Background and Time-line

  • The Prime Minister looking forward to three months of “clear air” with photo ops and handshakes;
  • CHOGM and Queen in Perth;
  • Friday morning, Victorian and NSW Liberal Governments call on PM to intervene in dispute although no actual action current. PM calls action by Victorian and NSW Liberal Governments a stunt;
  • Friday, no indication at the Qantas AGM that management is planning extreme disruption to Qantas operations. Despite shareholder rumblings a massive pay rise for Qantas CEO Joyce;
  • Saturday am Qantas board meets;
  • Saturday afternoon Queen flies out of Perth, Joyce contacts Anthony Albanese, Minister for Infrastructure and Transport;
  • Saturday 5 pm Qantas grounds all flights;
  • Anthony Albanese press conference;
  • Saturday 8 pm Prime Minister press conference, Fair Work Australia (FWA) called in on a matter of national importance;
  • Saturday 9 pm FWA convenes, under FWA provisions NSW and Vic Governments can join.

Is our system of democracy under attack? There is prima facie evidence that Qantas and both the NSW and Victorian Liberal Governments have colluded in raising the level of this dispute.

The Liberal Party opposition, Business Leaders, NSW and Victorian Liberal Governments have turned up the volume and are blaming the PM. A lot of effort, careful planning and coordination has taken place to bring on this issue at this time.

Some questions need to be answered, who on the Qantas Board knew that this was going to happen?

When did they know?

Abbott and his supporters will try anything to bring down the present Government, the AstroTurf grass roots “Ditch the Witch” campaign was a dismal failure maybe it’s time for a try from the big end of town.

Footnote it is now three days after the original post (above).

I include the following post covering some interesting follow up events:

Posted November 1, 2011 at 12:37 am | Permalink by Kate: Ok here goes. I’ve been brewing on this for a few days . In the shock of the Saturday grounding of the QF fleet I found myself home alone on Saturday night watching the FWA updates (sad but true). Bugger that, so I headed into FWA in Exhibition St and quickly got hooked on the night’s proceedings. I realise this is a poor reflection on my personality!
A procession of key players would walk past every now and then, and as the proceedings dragged on I befriended the night-owl brigade of cameramen. They filled in the gaps when unfamiliar punters came into camera shot. Their interest rose when the Victorian Minister for Transport arrived at the FWA hearing (and quickly left) with a grin from ear to ear. Apparently he was also representing the NSW transport minister too. Dare I spell out to all readers 12 year old’s and under, that both gents conincidentally are Liberal MP’s.
Now here is the clunker that I missed. The cameramen (and a fair few journo’s) were keen to know why the Minister was so easily available on a Saturday night (remember this is a long weekend and Oaks Day in Melbourne and half the city is tanked) to attend proceedings all suited up. Noteworthy given the only participants on Saturday night were journo’s, lawyers and union representatives, oh and a handful of tragic’s like me.
Given the said Ministers letter writing stunt to the Government, specifically calling for industrial action to be terminated(we all know the letter went to media outlets enroute to the PM) and was felt premature at the time, is it possible that Liberal party members were in the loop regarding the grounding of Qantas well in advance of Minister Albanese et al???? Did Olivia Wirth sneak a peak of the lock out letter posted to unsuspecting staff to her former boss Joe Hockey???? Why did Tony Abbot weigh into the debate blaming the Government????……….ah gottcha there…..
Kudos to Bill Shorten for showing up the following day for 12 hours, and Adam Bandt for spending a lot of time there too.

Alan Joyce grounds an airline… a cunning stunt. Indeed.

This cross post is from a comment on “Crikey” thanks Tom R for the alert.

308 comments on “Qantas – I Still Call Australia Home?

  1. As I posted in the other thread, there appears to be Qantas documents 10 days ago that show there was planning for this grounding by management.

    If they are genuine then Qantas is in trouble for misleading its shareholders and selling tickets they knew they would not honour.

  2. What a courageous action by Joyce and the Board particularly if they want to fight the Goverment.

    PM Gillard, first main win, fighting for rights of female outsouce workers
    Fair Work Act, her legislation

    Greg Combet water front dispute, who can forget Reith and the dogs

    Laurie Ferguson

    Simon Crean

  3. Who would have thought the wearing of red ties by pilots could stop a nation.
    Wearing a red tie and making announcements in flight is the extent of the action by pilots, that Qantas management found so difficult to manage.
    And the CEO gets a 71% increase in salary, good voting shareholders.

  4. I note that it is Joyce who is getting all the air time across the media this morning, and being mostly asked set questions he has ready answers for. Nothing on the documents or asking him when he planned to take this action, not the nonsense he is peddling and getting away with it was on the spur as a last straw.

    The unions or associations in this dispute are getting short shrift from the media and if they show them at all it is for single question 10 second grabs that often cut off the answer being given.

    That business and the Liberals, State and Federal, are going to so much effort to destabilise this government and engineer and election before 2013 indicates to me there is something up that they want Abbott in power ASAP. It may be they are afraid if Gillard stays in power for another two years all the fear and smear they have been throwing out there will be proven to have been so much hot air and bluster and their chance to get their gormless puppet into power will be lost.

    This is more than WorkChoices MkII, this all about big business actually running government. Currently they have an inordinate amount of influence over government but I think they see in Abbott the chance to actually control government.

  5. Excellent pick-up Mobius.

    Another point is that the claims were by long-haul pilots only yet Joyce has chosen to take action against all pilots thereby grounding ALL flights.

  6. Luna, very interesting observation that Joyce decided to ground all flights only a matter of hours after the Queen left Perth. If this wasn’t all carefully pre-planned I’ll go ‘her’.

  7. It may also be Min that they know Abbott can’t go two years as Mr. No and putting out his continuous stream of brain farts and plucked from the air policy announcements that add billions to the Liberal party’s costings every time he does it.

    It may also be that the government keeps putting up large reforms that are good for the long term prosperity of the country knowing Abbott will promise to rescind them out of hand, and nary a scarce neuron of his wasted on the consequences of being Mr. No, which in every turn is to add billions in costings to the debit column of the Liberal Party funding.

    By the time an election comes around in two years finding $70 billion in non-costed funding will be a trifle so the sooner they can engineer an election the better.

  8. Sue, I am wondering about that 93% who supposedly voted for that $2 million bonus for Joyce. It seems that everyone who attended the meeting booed and loudly.

    I know zilch about it but could this be similar to the NRMA where one’s vote is promptly sent to the recycling bin rather than filling it out…not that I’ve been known to do that….umm..

  9. Good observation Mobius, thanks for the update on how commercial TV are pitching this issue (I don’t watch it anymore).
    Just watching the good looking Virgin Spokesperson she seem very happy.

  10. You’ ve hit the mark here, lunalava. This was planned. The way the Qantas crisis has overshadowed all the good news out of CHOGM, the timing of the decision immediately after HM had left Perth, and the grounding of both domestic and overseas planes.

    Big Business sure is determined to get rid of our Prime Minister and this government.

  11. Patricia, I get the feeling that this might all backfire against Joyce..there are one heck of a lot of annoyed people out there. I received a message from a friend last night, instead of his weekend in Sydney as part of his studies..now stranded in Perth.

  12. Agreed, Min. I feel for them all – imagine those with family crises, and really serious business to attend to!

  13. Anyone trying to access our friends at the Political Sword. Access to the site still seems down since late yesterday arvo!

    BUT – I just got in via Archive hoping that AC had already stored his latest satire “Batwoman” and Bingo” everything works. I felt eerily alone there though. Perhaps someone else can pop in too!

  14. That Oops message has been up since yesterday. Press Archive – from there go in via the Batwoman post, AC’s latest.

    Meanwhile this Qantas thing has to me all the smell of 11/11/75 around it.

    So what happens in Parliament if lots of Coaltion people are somehow miraculously already in Canberra? And many government MPs are still stranded?

    Anyone like to bet that Abbott will grant pairs?

  15. What did those criticising the government, want them to do up to this stage? Did they expect them to enter the dispute, demanding that the unions pull their heads in? Government intervention where it is not warranted can make the situation worse. Governments should not take sides in a dispute.
    The government sees its role as only being involved when the economy or Nation is at risk. This is how it should be.
    There are courts that have the final responsibility to clear up this mess. The new Fair Work Act is similar in this case, as legalisation it replaced. It is not possible to argue, as Mr. Reith has claimed that the IR laws are to blame.
    Negotiations were going on between the employer and workers, as should occur in a democratic society.
    There has up to this time, little disruption to the public.
    After twelve months negotiations, one would expect more progress.
    Qantas during this time has rejects outright all claims. Qantas is saying it is our way or nothing.
    The sticking point appears not but workers demanding what their future is.
    We have an employer that refuses to make any deal with their workers.
    One cannot help but suspect that the company has an alternative agenda in the matter that has little to do with the workers’ demands.
    They want to take the company offshore, to take advantage of cheaper wages. Safety does not seem to be a consideration. The company, if it achieves its aim, can no longer be seen as an Australian icon. It should be treated as a foreign airline. One cannot have their cake and eat it too.

  16. “Qantas – I Still Call Australia Home?”

    Yes we can. Can we still call Qantas an Australian icon.

    I suggest not.

    What I find amazing that those overseas travelling business and first class are finding alternative flights. Those in economy are being left stranded. All one has to do is fork up an extra $1500 dollars.

    Economy class have to wait until next Wednesday at least.

    One rule for the rich. One for the poor.

  17. The unions were blasted for intererupting passengers, during holiday periods but planes still flew and passengers arrived albeit late.

    Joyce totally shuts down our Iconinc Airline for the first time in history just before the melbourne cup, not disrupting passengers but actually stranding them all around the world and severely effecting our National Race Day. Why didn’t they shut down next weekend after the cup carnival.

    It is so obviously premeditated and Joyce must go for the disgraceful handling of this dispute and the ruination of our national Airlines worldwide reputation.

  18. Min, this action by Qantas has been planned to harm and disrupt as many as possible.

    Listening to Joyce, one gets the impression that butter would not melt in his mouth.

    He is a smarmy bastard in my opinion.

    200 meetings, according to Joyce and no progress.

    He is defending his pay rise. I believe that 71% rise is going to haunt the man for the rest of his working life.

  19. There are seven hundred police from Australia and NZ stranded in Perth.

    Over one thousand media, covering CHOGM.

    This is without those who are connected to CHOGM.

    Those getting home from the races must also be many.

    Joyce has just said that the government has been involved and stated that up to now they are not taking sides. Is this not the way it should be.

    Strife such as this can sometimes make a PM stronger.

    All we have from the Opposition leader is the attempt to put all the blame on the government.

    I believe there is a time and place for everything.

    The time to play politics is not during an emergency. There is time for that after the matter is solved.

  20. I have just watched Business Sunday, Allan Kohler methinks is a shareholder.
    His statement to Alan Joyce on the 71% pay rise and the total shut down of the airlines:
    “Is this your way of saying Up Yours”
    ( to the travellers, shareholders, govt, staff, unions !!!!)

  21. Blankety-blankety Abbott..when does he get off his bike!! Abbott, why hasn’t the Prime Minister resolved this dispute…she has the power to resolve it and she should by now have resolved this.

  22. lunalava
    there are plenty of free rides for Abbott in Perth
    Rio Tinto, BHP (some old connections with these companies on current qantas board), then there is Gina, Twiggy etc

  23. TWU, on Sky. They were told that all flights were cancelled because after the announcement that pilots might be ‘stressed’. As Migs has pointed out via his friend on another thread, many pilots work under extremely stressful conditions. Therefore clearly it’s just an excuse.

    TWU has it of course that it is obviously the intention of Qantas management to off-shore the airline.

  24. I thought it appropriate at this time to repost Mobius’s comment:

    As I posted in the other thread, there appears to be Qantas documents 10 days ago that show there was planning for this grounding by management.

    If they are genuine then Qantas is in trouble for misleading its shareholders and selling tickets they knew they would not honour.

    Tony Sheldon National Secretary of the TWU has the goods on this, proof that it was all premeditated.

  25. Excellent post luna. 🙂

    After reading your Background and Timeline I was reminded of other parts of the pincer movement aimed at squeezing the government out of Office.

    The anti-carbon pricing astro-turfers are still active, with the CATA mob announcing that they will protest outside the Parliament on the day that President Obama visits. will they get free advertising from the little shock jocks….. of course they will.

    James Packer has perfectly timed his pronouncements this weekend and it’s not the first time.

    James Packer shows off his Labor Right pulling power
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/23/james-packer-shows-off-his-labor-right-pulling-power/

    Truth be known, Packer’s real trump cards in the pokies campaign are the two old favourites of political donations and media coverage.

    His great mates Alan Jones and John Singleton are dutifully using 2GB to slug the Gillard government at every opportunity.

    Packer has also teamed with billionaire mining heiress Gina Rinehart to back Lachlan Murdoch into the CEO’s chair at Network Ten where Andrew Bolt has been hired to broaden the coalition of major commercial media outlets campaigning for the government to fall.

  26. Joyce defends Qantas grounding as backlash grows
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-30/joyce-defends-qantas-grounding/3608780/?site=newcastle

    SPRUNG !

    Pre-meditated grounding?
    Tony Sheldon from the Transport Workers Union agrees there are serious questions about whether Qantas management secretly planned days ago the grounding of the airline.

    The union told yesterday’s emergency FWA hearing of a claim from a catering company that knew its services would not be required a week in advance.

    The union said that shows the airline’s actions were pre-meditated.

  27. This action was known so the truth will out from somewhere.
    My daughter was in a work lunch talk t’other day when they were generally discussing Jetstar booking practises. another person at lunch commented
    “an airline is going down next week”, the general question after that was “is jetstar that bad” the answer “no, it is someone else just wait and see”

  28. This is a bit rich coming from Balaklava Boy.

    Government intervention a backward step
    by: Peter Reith
    The Australian October 29, 2011 12:00AM
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/government-intervention-a-backward-step/story-e6frgd0x-1226179849657

    Mr. Reith can’t remember the last time a federal government intervened in an industrial dispute. I can!

    I CAN’T remember the last time a federal government tried to intervene in an industrial dispute. Was it the Ansett dispute? I am not sure, but it is a rare event. In 1997 and 1998, the Howard government was supporting waterfront reform but that did not give rise to an intervention in the Industrial Relations Commission.

    Back door bullying was the name if the game when Mr. Reith was in government, and nothing has changed, his team simply enlisted more supporters from the big end of town.

  29. Sue,
    there has been talk from economist talking heads on TV that Qantas and Jetstar finances can be/are ? fudged to make one or other look good or bad….have you seen anything about this ?

  30. MPs likely to miss Parliament after Qantas grounding
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/mps-likely-to-miss-parliament-after-qantas-grounding/story-e6frf7jx-1226180721478

    Can we expect a No Confidence Motion from Tony Abbott tomorrow if MPs can’t make it back in time for Parliament ?

    Luna and Sue, Abbott will be on the government jet with the PM and other Ministers.

    THE Prime Minister will make it to Parliament this week thanks to a government jet.
    But Julia Gillard’s staff have been told they won’t be travelling on that jet back to Canberra from Perth because their seats are needed for ministers, Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop and other MPs.

    It is understood charter flights are being organised for other federal MPs.

  31. Why is Abbott blaming the Government for this? In times of a national crisis I would have thought that it’d be a good opportunity for an opposition to be seen working with the Government to resolve the issue.

  32. Good article in the AFR by Laura Tingle, as usual.
    I might work up the courage to look at Ltd News in a while, but it’s a nice day outside & I wouldn’t want to spoil it.

  33. Miglo at 3.48
    Consistency on Abbott’s part in blaming the Government is the one characteristic of his we can rely on, ironic given the utter lack of it in his other utterances. As has been pointed out, it’s (until now) a coalition mantra that these disputes should be thrashed out by the parties involved. The good Ms Tingle makes this very point in her article.
    My bet is that Abbott will try to be everything to everybody without actually committing himself to anything concrete & trust the media to let him get away with it.

  34. Miglo, don’t be silly,
    I would have thought that it’d be a good opportunity for an opposition to be seen working with the Government to resolve the issue.

    It ain’t gonna happen while Abbott’s breathing.

  35. BSA Bob @ 3.51pm, I wouildn’t bother about ltd news If I were you…

    Qantas: Some Of Us On The Board Will Still Call Australia Home

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/10/30/qantas-some-of-us-on-the-board-will-still-call-australia-home/

    The Prime Minister is blamed for not helping the board move Australian jobs in the Australian airline overseas to avoid Australian pay, conditions and taxes. Tony Abbott demands that the naughty workers who object to this be squashed. Publications and broadcasters that have benefited very nicely from Qantas advertising in the past cover the story as sympathetically as they can for their former and hopefully future clients.

  36. Have read of the article by Marcus Priest at afr.

    “There will be some interesting questions of corporate disclosure and directors’ duties to be explored in subsequent legal proceedings.”

  37. Parliament resumes this week

    Tony Abbott will move a NO confidence motion in the PM for failure to resolve the qantas dispute before the company was forced to halt all planes.

    Any takers on timing?

  38. and this

    the Australian International Pilots Association (AIPA) has obtained an email apparently sent by Jetstar CEO Bruce Buchanan last night advising his staff of the actions being taken by Qantas.

    The date on the memo was Wednesday October 26 and is addressed to team leaders saying: “By now you may be aware Qantas has announced a precautionary grounding of its fleet from 5pm Saturday”, and warned of the Monday lockout.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-30/pilots-say-email-proves-qantas-made-calculated-move/3609006#?t=1319942806

  39. ABC TV

    SCHEDULE CHANGE: Due to the 7.30 special on the Qantas dispute,
    Wide Open Road and The No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency will screen a half-hour later, at 8pm and 9pm respectively

  40. Migs @3.48pm..yes indeed less than 12hrs after Qantas exec Joyce pulled all the planes out of the air Tony Abbott was there facing the cameras demanding why the PM hadn’t fixed it, already.

    Even Sky News is now speculating that just mebbe Joyce cooked the whole scenario, do tell.

  41. Further to that Min, Cu reports that Abbott was at the races in Melbourne today…..he obviously didn’t intend to be stranded in Perth !

  42. Well worth a read. Has covered the subject in depth.

    “….Gillard seemed very determined as well not to repeat the somewhat angry comments made by other ministers about the way in which Qantas set about locking out its customers without notice yesterday afternoon.

    However might we not read into her refusal to be drawn on ‘termination’ or ‘suspension’ the possibility that she might not really mind all that much if the tribunal opted for the latter, making life really difficult for Qantas but much easier for travellers and tourism?

    The Alan Joyce school of charm when it comes to dropping fait accomplis on government with less than three hours notice also means the airline is damaging itself to the tune of somewhere north of $30 million a day in lost revenue, fixed costs and passenger compensations.

    If this hearing drags on for a few more days, and then ends in a ‘suspension’ of industrial action, Qantas is going to be in deep pain of its own making, and which only it can fix by doing deals, and then facing up to the longer term consequences of massive brand damage, also self-inflicted.

    Just a thought..”

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/

  43. Request from Qantas Pilots

    http://qantaspilots.com.au/take-action

    Sign the petition

    Fill out the form below and join the qantas pilots petition.

    “When I board a Qantas flight I expect a Qantas pilot at the controls. I do not approve of Qantas management eroding this crucial aspect of the brand. Qantas pilots have developed a unique safety culture over 90 years. I want to see that culture preserved for future generations of Qantas passengers.”

  44. He was on the news a couple of days ago, with two young women, dressed to the hilt on his arms. I assumed they were his daughters. He also gave a race tip, which I assumed he pickled up from Cummings.

    It would have been Wednesday I believe.

    I did not see him back in Perth after that.

    Did anyone see what Insiders did with that quip that was shown of Mr. Abbott walking behind the bus shelter towards the cameras, while in Perth. They speed it up. A good double for Charlie Chaplin. I am sorry to have to insult Chaplin.

  45. Oh aren’t they good.

    Woodward of the Pilot’s Association citing evidence this shutdown and grounding had been well planned in advance on Channel Nine arvo news. Channel Nine reporter OB somewhere comes straight back and states of course Qantas and Joyce had a whole bunch of contingency plans with the lockout being the very last option only in dire straights.

    Apparently according to the reporter Joyce was left with absolutely no choice and only bought in the final solution when his back was to wall and announced that to the government yesterday.

    Of course I bet if Channel Nine had bothered to ask Qantas for copies of all the other contingency plans they would have gotten fobbed off and left empty handed as they don’t exist.

    Joyce caught out in another lie where he stated the unions actions over the last year or more have been putting safety at risk and is one reason he had to take the action he did. Qantas’s own documents cited at an enquiry that had grilled their Safety Manager stated that the union’s actions had no detrimental effect on the safety of the airline.

    Of course the general public will not hear of these outcomes only those skewered like Channel Nine just did in their afternoon news.

    This is an example of why Abbott must not be allowed to gain power as it will be these lying businessmen with the aid of the Murdoch and other right wing media like Channel 10 who will actually be ruling this country, not him, who of course will demand he be referred to as Prime Minister, a courtesy he refuses to give our current PM.

  46. PS, I am sure if he was in Perth, he would not miss the chance to jump up and down, saying he was stranded because of her inability to solve the matter yesterday.

    It is her legalisation and had three hours notice. She had time to settle the matter. She should drop everything else and concentrate on getting the planes into the air. More dribble along this line, simple sentences that one would use with a four year old, repeated for effect.

    He did say this, I am not joking. He also said she could solve it today. I am using “she’ instead of PM , as that is how he spoke.

    Just keep watching, I am sure he will be repeated saying the above.

  47. So where are we with this. We have the long haul pilots wanting a 2.5% payrise..sounds reasonable.

    We also have Qantas wanting to transfer a good portion of it’s operations to Asia.

    What was that about privatisation being such a good idea. Privatisation is a good idea except when you are a biggish island sitting somewhere in the South Pacific but with next to no competition due to the smallish population. Labour is always going to be expensive..move the whole thing kit and kaboodle to Asia?

  48. ME, you might be wrong in this matter. Look at the outcry across the net.

    This maybe an issue the media cannot bury.

    People seem to be listening on this one. it is like they are waking after a long stupor.

  49. The events of the last couple of days are good publicity for privatisation.

    Maybe Port Botany should be left alone. It is functioning well.

    Would hate to see it spoilt by privatisation.

  50. Good old Channel 9 now reporting that in the FWA meeting a Qantas rep stated the action was taken only because of safety concerns because of the unions’ actions.

    Not one mention of the Qantas report that states that the unions’ actions had no detrimental effect to the safety of the airline.

    And so the snow job by big business aided and abetted by the media continues.

  51. Mobius and Pip, fear not..there are one heck of a lot of p*d off people out there. And Joyce the fat cat who was awarded a $2 million bonus who wants to send Australian jobs offshore is..dead meat…

  52. Alan Joyce the only CEO I know that shuts his worlwide operation leaving tens of thousands stranded around the world instead of tryinbg to keep his company operating in the face of industrial action.

    I hope passengers worldwide who suffer any physical harm or detriment as a result of this unprecendented take class action against him for failing in his duty of care.

  53. Yep Joyce is a quitter, that’s for certain. Things are not going his way or not going fast enough so he takes his bat and ball and shuts the gate to the playground.

    But this has nothing to do with that but everything to do with his long held desire to move as much as Qantas offshore as possible and base HQ in Texas.

  54. Lots of interesting assertions and opinions here.

    Adrian do you have any evidence for your assertion above or are you just passing on/making up scuttlebutt?

  55. Qantas Grounds Fleet as Joyce Demands End to Union Strikes
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-29/qantas-grounds-international-domestic-fleets-over-labor-union-disputes.html

    Close Down
    “If this action continues as the unions have promised, we will have no choice but to close down Qantas part by part,” Joyce said. “The airline will be grounded as long as it takes to reach a conclusion.”

    The truth is out there…

    Qantas Says Strikes Cost A$68 Million, Cause Bookings ‘Dive’
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-28/qantas-says-strikes-cost-a-68-million-cause-dive-in-bookings.html

    Unions picketed the meeting, extending a campaign for job- security measures that has forced the carrier to ground seven aircraft and cut flights as Joyce tries to reverse A$200 million in losses from international operations. Qantas plans to create two airlines overseas as Middle Eastern and Asian carriers win over long-haul travelers and second-ranked Virgin Australia targets its 65 percent share of domestic passengers.

    Are the Jestar ledgers kept entirely separate from Qantas ledgers, and can the A$200 million in losses be connected to Jetstar operations ?

    If so it could be used as an argument to ‘prove’ the necessity of moving the business to Asia.

    After all Qantas plans to create two airlines overseas.

  56. Just watching ABC24 and the guy talking is a person who has worked inside QANTAS and he is saying that they cannot compete against Singapore, Malaysia, Emirates, Etihad as these are government owned airlines who are forward looking by operating primarily to bring tourists to their countries to spend money. They do not need to concentrate on generating a profit for their shareholders.

    Just another reason why we should have never sold QANTAS in the first place and I blame Paul Keating for that. No vision like the other countries in having a government owned airline for security, opportunity, tourism and service to the country.

    Now we have an airline operated solely for greed and profit of management and shareholders and to hell with anything else.

  57. Do you have any evidence for the assertions you bring up TomM.

    They are my assertions, and I don’t think there will be many who’ll be surprised if they come to fruition.

    Looking forward to you now supplying evidence for all your assertions and claims.

  58. Tony Abbott is blaming the government. I thought he believed that governments should stay out of businesses and stop interfering and let them run their own show.

    Funny how it is stay out of our business when it suits us, but when it doesnt intervene.

    Such hypocrisy.

  59. ToM, in the hurley burley I can’t quite work out what you are talking about..would you like to be specific.

    Which assertion might that be? And what do you personally believe is at error in this assertion?

  60. The answer to the Jetstar email,held by the pilots.

    The banner that was dated 26 October was an old banner re used by mistake.

    Godwin Grech must be at work again, so just pass the computer that created the email to police for forensic examination.

  61. Min Adrian made a specific statement –

    ” But this has nothing to do with that but everything to do with his long held desire to move as much as Qantas offshore as possible and base HQ in Texas.”

    I was interested to know whether he was just making this up.

  62. All well and truly good shane if there are no private competing airlines in the country. Like banking it is unfair to have a government owned entity in competition with other companies, governments have an untenable and unfair advantage in they can call on billions of tax payers money businesses cannot. There are also the conflict of interest problems where a government owned entity is also the regulator, overseer and law maker for the industry it owns and for those competing against it.

    Water, power, telecommunications infrastructure (not retail), postal services (maybe not), health, education, law and order, Defence and several other entities should always remain public as they are strategic to the nation and though private industry do enter some of these areas they do so in parallel and not in competition, even to the point that in some instance the government heavily subsidises the private entities in the same field even thought those private entities are immensely profitable in their own right.

  63. Something I heard on the radio TomM.

    Now I’m not really interested in all the stuff you just make up, I just ignore it.

  64. Oh and do you deny TomM that Joyce is attempting to move as much of the Qantas operation offshore as possible?

  65. ME

    So do all of those other countries have no private airlines ?

    We used to have Ansett ( private) and Qantas ( public) worked for many many years until they decided to change it all.

    The Commonwealth Bank never called on billions from the government but actually paid dividends in all but 1 year while providing a service to all australians everywhere until it was sold off.

  66. Möbius, the only assertions that you’re allowed to make are that unions are evil and that the female bloggers of this site have questionable ethics.

  67. I think you will find those countries are single airlines only, or at the least in their international airline, they might have domestic competition. Also if they do have other local airlines I think you will find they are herrings in comparison to the government owned whale.

  68. And you can make any assertion you like against Gillard or any of her ministers without restraint. Make any against Abbott and his cronies and you run an unfair and biased blog as only TomM is allowed to dictate how a blog should be run, and that’s his way.

    He does this without running a blog of his own, just harping against a very select number of those he would like to run his way.

    Sound like any other organisations or political leader you know. Peas in a pod.

  69. But it’s great when they reflect on the sexual orientation isn’t it Miglo? Fortunately when one does this, they’ve got you to defend the smear.

  70. Migs @6.37pm I’ve often wondered that. The blokes have their arguments questioned but the females are attacked on a personal level. Sue picked up on that yesterday..the ongoing thingy for months and months and months…

  71. ToM, as usual..trying to drag up the dregs. Let’s get this straight. It was a correction of the record, Sue said ‘his wife’, it was pointed out that Alan Joyce is openly gay. Sue clearly was unaware of this fact.

    If you have a problem with Joyce being opening gay, then you are not welcome on this blog.

    ToM, if you really want to get serious about gay issues then I suggest that you read links such as which our friend Joni (you remember him don’t you) sent us this morning.

    So instead of sniping at people who clearly have good intentions, perhaps you might even go to the trouble of clicking a Like on Facebook..that’s if even that effort doesn’t give you RSI.

    Link courtesy of Joni.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/27/world/wus-sa-rapes/index.html?iref=NS1

  72. ToM, do not ever ever again make that statement:

    But it’s great when they reflect on the sexual orientation isn’t it Miglo? Fortunately when one does this, they’ve got you to defend the smear.

    ToM, let’s just say that you’re treading on very thin ice here. Do not say this again.

  73. Apparently if Fair Work Australia does not give Joyce the answer he is looking for then QANTAS will remain closed for business.

    Looks like the negotiations by QANTAS with Fair Work Australia are the same as with the unions our way or the lights go out.

  74. Absolutely no idea Shane. Privatisation to me always seemed to me (and I nothing resembling an economist), a formula for disaster.

    However I am an historian and throughout Australia’s history it has been recognised that due to our isolated situation geographically, that we need to keep essential services in public hands.

    It’s not as if when we need another postal service, another airline that we can just go ‘elsewhere’. We are a big country, we have a small population but with a need for very complex infrastructure.

    When I was a Councilor for the Shire of Lilydale I was faced with a similar problem – big country, small population. You do not fob off essential services to organisations who do not care a rats a*se about you or your people. I think that the above holds true over many situations.

  75. I’m sure you’ll impose a similar standard on all your contributors here Min.

    I’d welcome that.

  76. It seems that this shutdown was anticipated some time ago, to the extent that Qantas put an ad in the newspapers saying “We’re sorry”…..nothing happened !

    Second time lucky for Mr. Joyce.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/10/10/qantas-strikes-go-weird-as-spokesperson-denounces-union-for-bringing-chaos-to-empty-terminal/

    It’s possible that the general media might start to notice how ‘weird’ the Qantas strike situation really is after today’s developments.

    Qantas was so certain that it would at last get a great big strike that it placed large ‘We’re sorry’ ads in this morning’s papers for those who still get their news in print.

  77. Oh for fuck sake TomM, imposing his standards and dictating to a selective blog again. He doesn’t do this for all the right wing blogs out there that have far worse standards, but does it to just a couple of left leaning ones.

    Get your own blog TomM if you don’t like the way others run theirs. There is no rules anywhere that say blogs should be run the way you want them to, that they have to be biased in the way you want them to be and treat posters the way you dictate.

    When I see you on other blogs, including all the rabid right wing ones out there, imposing the same demands as you do here then I”ll respect you. Otherwise you’re just blowing out your arse as usual.

  78. ToM, absolutely. Don’t come back to the Café without bringing a sense of humor, a preparedness to listen other people’s point of view, a tolerance for others when they might muck it up sometimes but know that they are kind and generous of heart.

    From all of us lying scrags, female politicians and other whores. (sounds to be a topic for the future).

  79. So why did we sell our government airline off to compete against other government owned whales which our privatised airline cannot compete against ?.

    Because for quite a while our privatised one was competing and doing it successfully. It took management, as it nearly always does, to screw that up.

    If we were to take Qantas or other entities back into government hands and try to compete with countries with much larger coffers than we have, many that are derived from just one source like oil, then we are asking our governments to go into economic collapse. How can an Australian government with all it’s other commitments due to the size and small population compete against oil rich nations or ones with large populations?

  80. In answer to Irritable ToM re overseas-trained baggage handlers.

    Qantas to use office staff as strike-breakers by:
    Ewin Hannan From:
    The Australian September 16, 2011
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/qantas-to-use-office-staff-as-strike-breakers/story-fn59noo3-1226138295026

    QANTAS intends to use its overseas-trained staff to replace striking baggage handlers and ground staff when the Transport Workers Union holds a four-hour strike at the nation’s airports next Tuesday.
    Qantas said yesterday that Australian-based “head office staff” trained in Los Angeles and locally would be used as baggage handlers and ground staff during the industrial action.

  81. Min, correct me if I’m wrong.

    But I think I’m entitled to post opinion here. I think this may also involve pointing out if someone posts a smear with its base in the sexual orientation of an individual.

    I’m entirely happy to let it go at that point. But if someone then seeks to defend a smear – well I suppose I’m inclined to reply to that.

    Can you advise me which part of the above I have wrong?

    Thank you.
    ——————-
    Yes Pip, companies can legally train management in operational skills if they wish. I think that’s a different issue to moving HQ to Texas.

  82. In other words shane our government would be a single minke whale against a pod of blue whales with all the hunters going after the minke.

  83. You are entitled to your opinion TomM but what you do here is attempt to force that on select blogs as the way those blogs should run. You dictate what standard, yours, they should run under, but you only do this for these couple of select blogs. Other blogs can be as biased and hypocritical as they like and not a peep out you.

    Qantas dumps SFO, heads to Texas
    QANTAS Airways says it will seek approval from the competition regulator for a joint-venture with American Airlines on trans-Pacific services as…

    Qantas launches bid to lasso Texas

    T

    Texas builds trade links ahead of Qantas flights

    I heard a snippet on radio this morning that Qantas is wanting to move to Texas in a deal with American Airlines and TomM is now in his usual way playing the hypocrite. He apparently can make any assertion he likes without recourse but woe and behold the almighty dictator of this blog has to make sure every statement and assertion passes his scrutiny of his version of fairness.

  84. ME

    The minke whale has the ability to allow or disallow other airlines to use its air space and operate in minke waters. Open skies is like free trade agreements, fine when the conditions are identical on both locations, but shit otherwise to the location with better conditions for its citizens.

    QANTAS has been a minke for decades

  85. I have dealt with FWA and they are OK. The dispute is in the correct arena to solve the problem. If I was Alan Joyce I would not hesitate to bring the unions to court. They have been outrageous. Tony Sheldon is the ultimate union boofhead. Remember he will be Gillard’s boss soon. The head faceless man so to speak.

  86. Is Mr. Joyce’s main problem that in spite of his attempts at provoking their unions for nearly twelve months, they have kept their cool.

    Is this weekends outlandish action a last ditched effort at getting the unions to walk out.

    I must admit, I expected them to walk out yesterday. The unions have had the legal right to strike for many months. They have had numerous meetings with completely negative outcomes from Mr. Joyce.

    Mr. Joyce maybe correct, he was force to take this action as a last ditch attempt to get his own way.

    Mr. Joyce want the negotiations to cease. They want to deny their workers any justice.

    The only industrial action from the unions has been six, one hour stop work meetings over seven months.

    Mr. Joyce has ensured that these stoppages had the greatest impact on the passengers, as he could manipulate.

    “…….It’s possible that the general media might start to notice how ‘weird’ the Qantas strike situation really is after today’s developments.

    Qantas was so certain that it would at last get a great big strike that it placed large ‘We’re sorry’ ads in this morning’s papers for those who still get their news in print.

    Yet this could hardly have been done to inform its frequent flyers most of whom have been kept fully informed about rescheduled bookings and cancelled flights using social media and text messages, something the airline has done so well that comparatively little inconvenience has been done to travellers throughout the four months war of words that has been fought between Qantas and its long haul pilots, its licensed aircraft engineers and its ground staff.

    The result was that about 11,000 people (according to Qantas) were never going to turn up as originally booked for the dozens of flights that the airline had cancelled or deferred today in anticipation of a strike action that was in fact called off about three hours before members of its licensed engineers union were to begin four hour stop works in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.

    Yet again, all that television reporters had to show in their reports from assorted Qantas terminals today were nearly empty buildings and vignettes of spokesperson Olivia Wirth trying to keep a straight face while railing against the chaos that was nowhere to be seen.

    Which ought to eventually cause people to ask ‘what is really going on?’

    There are three sets of action underway at Qantas authorized by Fair Work Australia after the respective unions met all of the tests of negotiating in good faith with management in seeking timely negotiated enterprise bargaining outcomes.

    …”

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/10/10/qantas-strikes-go-weird-as-spokesperson-denounces-union-for-bringing-chaos-to-empty-terminal/

  87. Once you head down that route shane you are heading for a world of trouble and hurt. If there were real free and open trade in the world and the WTO with teeth then you might be able to dictate by exclusion.

    The moment an Australian government attempts to protect it’s own entity by exclusion or restrictive tariffs then like will be done to Australia, but much harsher and damaging. It is a tit for tat that Australia could never ever win and would severely damage the country.

    Hawke/Keating, even with Hawke’s union and protectionist background, realised that tariffs and barriers were not productive or fruitful to the country, artificially inflated prices locally and increased inflation and left the government short of revenue. They did the right thing as did Howard who continued and expanded their policy. It is the States who have mostly failed in this area.

  88. ME

    The guy that worked in finance in QANTAS was virtually stating that now mthat QANTAS was privatised it can no longer compete with the government airlines that fly here. In other words it was a death sentence to QANTAS to privatise it.

  89. I can defend myself

    I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH GAY LEPRECHUANS

    well only when they pull stunts to bring the nation to a stop
    to embarrass the PM at CHOGM
    to take pay increases of 71% and at the same time want to drive down the wages of its employees
    do not tell shareholders of this action when planned before AGM
    possible collusion with state premiers

    Now back to the real issue of a company and its directors that has probably broken man of its fiduciary duties

  90. Catching up,
    I will believe it when I see it, if the general media might start to notice how ‘weird’ the Qantas strike situation really is after today’s developments.

  91. ME

    As manufacturing continues to leave this country at a rate of knots and employees are not paid for overtime and wages fail to keep up with inflation due to competitive pressures from corporations and countries that pay pittance wages overseas I will disgaree.

    Once the demand for mining subsides in a number of years we will have nothing to fall back on.

  92. Strange in asking Joyce to bring the unions to court for doing absolutely nothing wrong. In every case the unions have acted legally within the regulations and it appears that it’s Joyce who hasn’t and might be heading for the courts to answer for the illegalities he has committed.

  93. I’m also perplexed by the right backing Joyce who wants to send as much of Qantas offshore as possible, costing thousands of Australian jobs and putting the airline under a sub-standard safety regime.

    But that doesn’t seem to concern them, especially on the back of Joyce saying it is the unions who are costing jobs. Well yes they are, foreign cheap jobs overseas for Qantas.

  94. I am sure there must be blogs sites that oppose the very things ToM purports to stand for. If he were genuine then I’m certain he will seek them out and offer his enlightening comments.

    But I doubt it.

  95. ”Yes ToM they were office staff being trained as strike breakers.”

    Possibly Pip.

    Which is entirely legal, so I don’t imagine you would have any objection.

  96. ToM, you are perfectly entitled to post comments here. Blogmaster Miglo allows you to do so.

    What is the smear? I cannot recall any smear? What I can recall is Sue saying ‘his wife’ and then a correction of the record that Alan Joyce is openly gay. Sue surely cannot be blamed for not knowing that Joyce is gay..surely you’re not going to run from blog to blog to blog tearing strips off Sue for something that she wasn’t aware of.

    ToM, as per above there was no smear. However, I will address this issue seriously. Please point out to me the exact words and/or phrases and I will address these as a point of urgency under both Anti-Discrimination NSW and HREOC legislation.

  97. But Joyce planning this a while ago but not telling his shareholders, whilst also selling tickets he knew would not be honoured are just two things he may have done illegally.

    So I imagine you would object to that?

  98. TomM, do you know you are boring. It is a shame you have little of interest to contribute to Migs blog.

    You and Mr. Abbott are one of a kind, that is that you have to demolish and destroy everything in your path.

    TomM, do not make the mistake of thinking you upset the women on this site. You only annoy them mostly, for the time that is wasted attending to your fragile psyche.

    They see you as a joke.

    This is because you never have anything new to say.

    This the last time I will reply. I have better things to focus my time on, than on a bitter man that is unable to forgive or forget.

  99. “It seems that this shutdown was anticipated some time ago, to the extent that Qantas put an ad in the newspapers saying “We’re sorry”…..nothing happened !”

    No the ain was to force the worker to walk out. This did not happen.

    Mr, Joyce was forced to close the airline down himself.

    Why did not Joyce ask the government to intervene or approach the courts himself.

    The government at this time is correct in not taking sides.
    It is said that Qantas would win in the courts. I suspect that is not true, it is Qantas that is in danger of losing.

  100. (Leave Alan Joyce’s lead-footed lesbian wife out of proceedings, please! Because, ToM-alone knows that such smear is the only other possible misconstruction possible to the especially perceptive from out the startling revelation that Joyce’s chosen partner is a hairy-legged man-alike.)

  101. I’m just as guilty as anybody for not ignoring ToM. I gave him the respect of reading his comments.

    That respect will not be extended in future.

  102. Fine Min.

    I’m entirely happy to post here occasionally. I don’t care one iota if people choose not to reply.

    If someone makes (what I see as) a stupid comment, I might point this out from time to time. If they want to debate it, fine. If they don’t that’s also fine with me.

  103. Migs, you know me..if ToM comes back with smears I will be taking action. The line in the sand is drawn when he starts attacking good and honest friends. You know what Min rampant is like..be afraid, be very afraid..

    On the other hand ply me with wine…

  104. Migs, of course you have replied to ToM. How could you do otherwise, that is the difference between being a Blogmaster..plus ToM has had some exceptional things to say on Indigenous issues.

  105. Indeed he has, Min, but his main reasons for coming here are to smear people. I’m well aware that the commenters here are capable of mounting their own defense, but I’d prefer it if he refrained from his attacks in the first place.

    If they continue I’ll have no option but to shut the door on him.

  106. To all the those who keep saying that the unions have “forced” this grounding, I have one question:

    Why was there no advanced warning for the 80,000 passengers in the air? If this was the route that Qantas management has decided to break the unions, surely they could have allowed the public at least a few weeks notice? Even the unions in their apparent 6 hours of industrial action over the last 8 months gave some notice to the travelling public.

    I think the unions should consistently get this point out.

  107. Reb, no idea. The story is that Sue said something yesterday about ‘a wife’ and Pip I think it was pointed out that Alan Joyce has been openly gay for some years now.

    ToM went into the rampant thing attacking Sue for homophobic comments, tried to hijack the topic..just the usual stuff. This blog is homophobic, this blog is racist blah blah and double blah..

    If you want more details, ask Migs.

  108. Pip, I like that. As I live alone I have, found the TV

    What has Australians and the government got to gain by supporting Qantas?.

    Nothing that I can see, I see Qantas as attempting to blackmail the government.

    It did not work with Telstra. It will not work with Qantas.

    If we were unlucky for Qantas to win this battle, it will go the way of Ansett.

    Qantas is already losing it’s percentage of the market. The country has not collapsed.

    Qantas needs a quick victory. It will not take long for other airlines such as Virgin to fill the vacuum.

  109. I’ve been here most of the day Migs…

    And reading the comments with interest, especially Mobius’s observations.

    I’m quite capable of commenting (or not commenting) without any “enticement” from Tom.

    What is disappointing is that no one here has said anything about Sue’s quite offensive “gay leprechuans” slur levelled at Alan Joyce.

    And Min, just ignores it with “what smear?”

    But then Sue is one of the “protected species” around here on Min’s blog, so I shouldn’t really be surprised I suppose.

  110. ME, the problem is that it is hard not to have a go at him. Will have to learn to keep my word.

    It will be interesting to see what the share market has in store tomorrow.

  111. (I’m not sure that a preference for conflating two issues shouldn’t be debated, el g; nobody’s business might be everyone’s business if there’s a potential confusion between a negative discrimination which prejudicially preferences preferences and a positive discrimination which recognizes preferences without prejudice. In some ways, recognition of an openly gay Alan Joyce and/or his partnership subverts the traditional paradigm’s don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t discuss, don’t acknowledge policy; whether or not such acknowledgement by onlookers, in itself, amounts to a ‘smear’, these days, I don’t know.)

  112. Even the unions in their apparent 6 hours of industrial action over the last 8 months gave some notice to the travelling public.

    I think the unions should consistently get this point out.

    Unions have to give 72 hours notice of industrial action, Joyce did not have to give any notice, and gave three hours notice.

    On the other hand if he had been planning this for a little while as the circumstantial evidence points to, then he did have a legal obligation to inform his shareholders and to not sell tickets he knew would not be honoured. Depending on how he conducts the lockout tomorrow he may commit other illegalities if he bars workers as he has threatened who are not in dispute.

    I’m not certain how it goes for the lies he has told so far, such as the safety of the airline.

  113. I have been wondering all day what the man reminds me of, of course it is a LEPRECHUAN.

    I know they are mischievous but I did not know they were evil.

  114. Min, I expected a little more accuracy from you. I was careful not to use the word “homophobic”.

    I used the word “pathetic” and “slight” a couple of times. Which remains my opinion.

    This is the comment I objected to –

    Sue
    Jane @8.14
    according to twitter you cannot blame the wife for the ferarri., well not a female wife.

    https://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/friday-on-my-mind-timeless-legends-edition/#comment-41810

    And it would have gone no further, except several sought to defend this pathetic comment.

  115. “gave three hours notice.”

    Three hours to the government. I suspect there was no notice to the public.

    If a man is openly gay where is the slur? Where nis the insult?

  116. “GAY LEPRECHUANS”

    Sue has succesfully managed to demonstrate her latent xenophobia and homophobia in that concise remark.

    I guess I’d better leave it at that as, according to CU, discussion of gay issues is “not sensible” around these parts.

  117. Unions have to give 72 hours notice of industrial action, Joyce did not have to give any notice, and gave three hours notice.

    On the other hand if he had been planning this for a little while as the circumstantial evidence points to, then he did have a legal obligation to inform his shareholders and to not sell tickets he knew would not be honoured.

    It’s delicious stuff, Mobius. It’s the $64,000 question.

  118. Reb, yes indeed Sue is a protected species on this blog. A protected species being someone very special, someone of rare character. Just join in and feel free to contribute whenever you feel like it Reb.

    And Min, just ignores it with “what smear?” No…I was actually asking a question dumbo. I asked What smear.

    I await your answer with breathless anticipation given that you have once again decided to come in to try to denigrate people on Miglo’s blog.

  119. Möbius Ecko @ 9:13 pm

    I’m not saying Joyce was obliged legally to tell the public. I’m just saying his excuse for deliberately causing the public pain is completely rubbish.

  120. Reb, what have you read into my comment. Your quote puzzles me.

    I am not sure what is the most insulting word.

  121. What’s the term for a phobia against gay midgets?

    But then again he only pointed a resemblance to an evil leprechaun.

    Hope you’re a tall man reb, and not an evil leprechaun to boot otherwise you’re in a world of trouble here.

  122. None of the talk on legalities covers the fact that Joyce’s action was a massive and unnecessary overreaction to the situation he publicly states he needed to take action on.

    What the private reasons are we can only make assertions on.

  123. “I was actually asking a question dumbo. I asked What smear.

    I await your answer with breathless anticipation given that you have once again decided to come in to try to denigrate people on Miglo’s blog.

    Why don’t you get off your high horse Min. Where have I denigrated anyone?

    And I see that you still fail to see that the term “gay leprechuans” could be considered a “smear.”

    And once again, instead, you just leap to Sue’s defence.

    As someone who is gay and of irish heritage I find it particulalrly offensive, and regardless of what you think of Alan Joyce, I think it’s pretty insulting.

    Like I said both homophobic and xenophobic in the one slur.

    But I guess you’re too blind to see it.

  124. Reb, for one brief moment I thought that you were kidding and thus gave you the benefit of the doubt.

    But you’ve being saying this about the Café for months now, that we’re homophobic and xenophobic. Sometimes, somewhere it stops becoming a joke.

    This time is now. No high horses here reb, just the rule of law.

  125. I am, but the family lineage goes back to Ireland.

    I guess the term “faggy Abo’s” would be acceptable in this forum then?

  126. Woman must be fair game tonight.

    There was bordering on a vicious attack on Senator Wong on channel Ten tonight.

    I am sad to say a woman was one of the worse offenders.

    Whatever she is, she can give as much back as she gets.

    Slurs do not seem to worry her.

    Maybe because she feels there are more important things to worry about.

  127. “Sometimes, somewhere it stops becoming a joke”

    I agree. It stops becoming a joke when it’s self evidently true.

    Yet again you fail to see it yourself.

    “the rule of law”

    Indeed. Min’s blog. Min’s law.

  128. “Woman must be fair game tonight.”

    WTF? Sue makes a disgusting characterisation about Alan Joyce, and somehow it’s “the women” who are under attack.

    Honestly… 🙄

  129. CU, I have my radio on most hours of the day love radio.

    Re Virgin Airlines I’ve just spotted some tweets

    VirginAustralia Virgin Australia

    We would like to thank everyone who flew with us today for their patience during this busy time.

    VirginAustralia Virgin Australia

    There are now another 3,000 extra seats avail to purchase btwn SYD,MEL,BNE,CBR,PER,ADL,MKY – visit the website -> http://bit.ly/uBpwmA
    1 hour ago

    VirginAustralia Virgin Australia

    We’ve also been able to schedule more flights for Monday 31/10/11 to assist the travelling public

  130. I find it bizarre that several have said pointing out a stupid comment is an attack on women.

    This has been repeated several times here lately, and until now I’ve thought best to ignore it.

    I think my record speaks for itself.

    I attack anyone who I consider to be making a stupid, lazy or ill informed comment(s). Regardless of their gender.

  131. Oh come off it reb. Faux outrage, it really isn’t you.

    I’ve read pieces of yours being far more offensive against someone or another. What is it that one comes over here playing blog politically correct sheriff and dictating how the place should be run and then in comes the posse to attack as well. The same for PS.

    I guess you slag the blogs or posters in them off in GT as well. Wouldn’t surprise me.

    As I have said, it wouldn’t be too bad if the same touchstone used to denigrate here and PS to hold them to a purely opinionated “standard” was applied to the many other blogs out there, most that are worse and many that assert to be fair and unbiased, but aren’t, but I don’t see that happening. The holding to “fairness” and a “standard” seems to only be levelled at two blogs.

  132. Reb, what is insulting about being called gay. If he is open about being gay, what is the problem.

    Now I do not know if an Irishman feels insulted about being called a leprechaun. Mr. Joyce might because of his size.

    I do agree that it adds nothing to the debate and has given both you and TomM an opening to come in with insults.

    It is did not warrant the attacks you launch.

    At the most, it is colourful language, said with tongue in cheek.

    After all did not Mr. Abbott tell the queen, politics is played hard in this country.

  133. That’s fine Mobius, if you can’t see why anyone would be offended by that remark then I guess I can’t convince you.

    I’d still be interested to know whether Migs thinks that someone of aboriginal descent shouldn’t be offended at being called a “faggy Abo”

    The prevailing view here is that they should not.

  134. Reb..you can hold it right there.

    Reb, name one other blog where there are the Categories: Gay Issues, Indigenous Australia.

    Wait for it Reb..this is Miglo’s blog. He had a Facebook group by the same name for a very very long time before he set up this blog. Not long after you set up Gutter Trash by my estimation.

    You have now crossed the line. You will not make insinuations about Sue.

  135. Reb,
    Your mate ToM has been here badgering for hours and now you’re here complaining about imagined slurs and accusing other posters here, again.

    It’s bloody BORING, and frankly you and your mate have become boring.

  136. Min, that man knows how to run an airline. I am talking about Virgin of course.

    Mr. Joyce needs to convince us that the airline he runs deserves our support.

    I feel he will have a hard time convincing us.

    There is a new news reader on channel Ten. She is sure nasty.

  137. “It is did not warrant the attacks you launch.”

    Excuse me but “what attacks?” “what insults?”

    “At the most, it is colourful language, said with tonhue in cheek.”

    Perhaps. That’s how most racist or homophobic remarks are passed off these days – “its all meant to be a joke”.

  138. (It’s probably only me, then, who’s now having unwanted images of a suitably stylized Alan, joyriding in the pouch of an Oz flyer, and particularly gleeful at the prospect of getting his hands on a pot o’ gold somewhere over the rainbow in Asia.)

  139. ” TomM an opening to come in with insults.”

    The worst I have said is “pathetic”, which I consider entirely legitimate. The insults back have been far more pointed.

  140. Cu, another tweet on alan Joyce

    JimmyTMitchell Jimmy Mitchell

    Qantas shares have dropped from $5.60 to $1.60 in the past five years yet shareholders still approve a 71% payrise for Alan Joyce. Wtf?

  141. Reb, interesting I was just talking to my friend who is a fag Abo and he said that he finds it quite amusing…but then he has a sense of humor.

    The only person who has used the term ‘faggy Abo’ on this blog is yourself.

  142. “this is Miglo’s blog”

    Rubbish.

    It’s your blog Min. You call the shots. You decide who can get away with racist homophobic remarks and who can’t.

    This stopped being Migs’ blog oh about 8 months ago.

  143. Reb, you best ask that question of ToM. He is, after all, the blog policeman.

    Btw, I expect him to attack you shortly for using that term. He has very high ethical standards.

  144. “I was just talking to my friend who is a fag Abo and he said that he finds it quite amusing”

    That’s fine then… I just wanted test the consistency…

    I haven’t heard from Migs yet, but I guess once we have Migs’ endorsement (seeing as according to you it’s meant to be his blog) we’ll be free to call all those young Aborigines struggling with sexual identity issues as “faggy Abo’s”

    I’m glad we got that straightened out.

  145. Reb, and you do not insult or hurt people.

    Migs is suppose to be your friend. You know why Min has been helping Migs out.

    Reb, is your aim to take over the site.

    If that is the case, it will be over us women dead bodies.

    As far as we are concerned, it is Migs blog.

  146. From my heart I apologise to the contributors to this blog including TOM and reb. If you chose not to accept I am not offended and no one need try and defend my comments.

    I am now only writing on this important topic of the Qantas board and CEO.
    Today Joyce was doing the rounds selling his actions. He was supposed to go on 7.30 but pulled out at lunch time. Was he advised to shut up as it appears it coincided with the time the email was released. And as I said earlier there were rumors last week “an” airline would go down this week.

  147. I’ll be wasting my time waiting for ToM to have a go at reb for his abo term. ToM’s silence will confirm that he has double standards.

  148. Miglo let me say that I was genuinely surprised when you attacked me last night. I still consider my comment to Sue to be entirely warranted.

    I still don’t see how you could completely ignore her comment, and transfer the problem to me.

  149. For the record:

    A leprechaun (Irish: leipreachán) is a type of fairy in Irish folklore, usually taking the form of an old man, clad in a red or green coat, who enjoys partaking in mischief.

    I believe Sue was not concerned about his sexual orientation or his Irish ancestry, I believe she just does not like short-arsed trouble makers.

  150. Sue, agreed, from now on the thread can return to Qantas.

    Although I suspect that the apology isn’t what Reb/ToM want.

    Alan Joyce was on 60 Minutes which might explain his non-appearance on 7.30. He could be assured of a puff piece on Channel 9.

  151. Sue, you do not have to apoligise to me or I believe most others that contribute to this site

    They go looking for a couple of words to twist and make a noise about.

    I do hope they get pleasure out of their misguided game.

  152. Tweet

    lizsinnott liz
    by Dan_Gulberry

    I’VE WORKED IT OUT PEEPS!!! Alan Joyce is the love child of Alan Jones & Barnaby Joyce! now it all makes perfect sense! LMAO

    Now it makes sense….

  153. The list of inconveniences just goes on and on.

    Tweet from Sandi Logan, dept., of Immigration and Citizenship

    SandiHLogan Sandi Logan
    by GrogsGamut

    If you’re stuck in Australia because your flight’s grounded & your visa’s about to expire, call #DIAC 131 881 so we can advise next steps

  154. Latika Bourke tweets report from FWA

    latikambourke Latika Bourke

    Counsel for Pilots accuses #Qantas of threatening the full bench of FWA by saying they could find it difficult to fly under a suspension

  155. Heard on radio, a stranded doctor from Forbes, NSW who said any women due to have their baby would have to go to another town for medical care.

    Tweets

    profsarahj Sarah Joseph

    @ @katedoak @chriskkenny
    how many #Qantas hrs lost to strikes compared to hours lost through management grounding, Chris?

    NicholasGruen Nicholas Gruen

    Well arrogant, greedy, foreign managers worked a treat for Telstra.
    It was just a matter of time for #Qantas to copy it

  156. Will trade of qantas shares be suspended? i heard that shareholders haven’t received dividends for a while so to see the share price fall would be a touch harsh after a vote of 96% confidence in the CEO only last friday.

  157. As a matter of interest, he’s an indication that history repeats itself.

    http://www.aircleaners.com.au/air-cleaners-articles/1993/2/2/air-workers-agree-to-nostrike-plan/

    …and all this under ALP government ownership of Qantas.

    After a marathon hearing in the Australian Industrial Relations Commission which ended last night, the TWU agreed to accept an order by Commissioner Frank Palmer that required all of its members to sign what amounted to a nostrike agreement.

    Commissioner Palmer said there should be no doubt in the minds of the union and its members that a breach would mean dismissal.

  158. Great post lunalava.

    The unions or associations in this dispute are getting short shrift from the media……

    So situation normal, ME?

    A friend of mine, who came from a fairly privileged background, once told me a story about a strike in NSW, which meant that milk wasn’t being delivered to primary schools. Her father told her it was because the wicked unionists were denying children their right to drink half sour milk in the middle of summer.

    I asked her if she knew what the dispute was about; naturally she only knew the bosses pov, I said that maybe the striking workers weren’t being paid enough to look after their families and if she thought it was fair that the strikers’ children should be deprived of decent living conditions etc because their parents were underpaid.

    She’d never once considered that scenario; she just assumed that people went on strike because they were in the thrall of Beelzebub!

    Min @8.25am, apparently pilots have an email proving that this was all premeditated. I’ve also heard that shareholders were less than enthusiastic about the pay rise. I was at a party last night where this was being discussed and all but one person was against Joyce’s money grab, and these would all have been Liars party supporters.

    And off thread but important, I spoke to a teacher whose school had gained 4 new classrooms to replace 4 ancient demountables with BER funds. Happy as a lark!

    CU @10.17am, spot on. This is an industrial dispute and as such government intervention is unwarranted.The parties must resolve the strike or go to the body which will resolve it. Liealot’s blather shows that as usual he hasn’t got a clue.

    Min @11.37am, exactly. The PM does not resolve industrial disputes. Apparently, Sir Know Bugger All hasn’t got a clue.

    Packer has also teamed with billionaire mining heiress Gina Rinehart to back Lachlan Murdoch into the CEO’s chair at Network Ten….

    The media inquiry might put a dent in that plan.

    Pip @4.03pm, whaaaaat? Fucking Liaealot is getting stuck into Gillard because she wouldn’t be a party to helping Qantas dump Australian workers so they could go offshore? WTF?????????

    Is this his idea of a vote catcher?

    Sue @8.27pm, as you say, being gay has nothing to do with Joyce being a bloated, greedy, right wing slime ball. But the suggestion that you can’t be a dead sh!t if you’re gay is discriminatory bullshit!

    However, his sexuality is not the issue; that he’s a dead sh!t is, which as far as I can see is the issue for you and the rest of the Café.

    Therefore, the derailer should STFU and take his confected outrage and hypocrisy to Dolt’s blog which seems to be tailor made for him.

    reb, Joyce is an Irish name. I neither know nor care how tall Alan Joyce is, but his actions show he is a “little” man-no scruples, no morals, just a greedy git who doesn’t give a sh!t about the people in his employ. He would have done just fine at Enron, Lehman Brothers and Goldman Sachs.

  159. Sue @ 11.25pm,
    I think the story is that no dividends have been paid for three years, which begs the question ….how and why would Joyce get a 71% pay rise ?

  160. Jane it’s been busy at the Cafe while you were away.

    In answer to my own rhetorical question, someone [ private equity shareholders perhaps] really wants to see a Qantas with two new companies, in Asia and the Middle east.

    Meanwhile Virgin has stepped in with cut price fares

    Qantas passengers flock to Virgin
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8367252/virgin-puts-on-extra-flights

    ABC radio now, Stephen Long looking at who’s behind the Qantas debacle, and immediately talks about the wharfies clean-out under Corrigan and Reith.

    “Leigh Clifford and Rio Tinto industrial disputes used
    Freehills law firm which is now working for Qantas.”

    Clifford is now with Qantas

    “The Commission has form”, i think meaning FWA.
    “Qantas will be a legal test case”

    “Qantas will win because it has the power and the capital.”

    Just heard that FWA will announce their decision at 1am.

  161. No dividend but 3 Billion fighting fund.

    Mr. Costello on Bolt made a statement that many of Work Choice Individual contacts are coming up for renewal. He is predicting much strife.

    This will only occur if the bosses do not contribute as Qantas is doing.

    I believe these contracts should have been converted by Labor early in the piece.

  162. “………….“MR Abbott is finding it very hard to get a bounce in the polls, it’s sort of proof that you can’t scream your way into people’s affections, it would seem from the recent polls. Now how do you think the Liberal Party is going to deal with the problem of Mr Abbott’s continuing, sort of, he just can’t get off. He’s finding it hard to convert success into popularity, personal popularity. So can you picture a Tony Abbott who’s not bellowing, and who can actually stop and talk, and listen, and think quietly?”

    ..

    http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/2011/10/dreaming-out-loud-about-alternative.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FUtodS+%28North+Coast+Voices%29

  163. No dividend but 3 Billion fighting fund.

    I wonder what the shareholders think of that? And how they can justify cutting wages to their ordinary workers, not the Fat Cat Joyce?

    I hope FWA sticks it to Qantas.

  164. On ABC24 former Qantas economist Tony Webber said that the government should own the international airline !

  165. Yes it is.

    Is it good or bad. Maybe there us disagreement, If so, I assume Qantas will be straight into the courts.

  166. Looks like PM got want they want. Terrminate all protected industrial action.

    Planes in the air as soon as possible.

    Still have to negoiate. SWhorten looks red eyed.

  167. Behind the scenes: how Joyce saddled up for battle

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/behind-the-scenes-how-joyce-saddled-up-for-battle-20111030-1mqhx.html#ixzz1cHIiob9j

    http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/behind-the-scenes-how-joyce-saddled-up-for-battle-20111030-1mqhx.html


    AFTER copping endless jeers and a verbal battering at the annual meeting on Friday, the Qantas chief executive, Alan Joyce, and the chairman, Leigh Clifford, were escorted to a refuge at the University of NSW campus.

    Mr Clifford, who as the former chief executive of Rio Tinto had a reputation for taking on the unions, trumpeted the meeting as a ”watershed moment”.

    What a rude bastard Alan Joyce really is; he didn’t even have the courtesy to
    speak to the PM personally about the lock-out.

  168. Qantas to fly after dispute terminated

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/

    Fair Work Australia has ruled to terminate an industrial dispute between Qantas and three unions in an emergency hearing, paving the way for the airline to return to the skies.

    In an unprecedented move, Qantas yesterday announced the immediate grounding of its entire fleet ahead of a lockout of staff on Monday.

    The deadlock has already affected more than 68,000 passengers worldwide and there were fears a failure to get planes back in the air quickly would damage the national economy.

  169. I can see why Mr. Abbott was demanding that the PM take different action.

    The PM has achieved what she wanted without becoming involved in the dispute between the union ans Qantas

    Union appears happy.

    I have a feeling in spite of the decisiion, the planes will not be flying.

  170. ABC24
    reporter just announced that the unions are claiming victory “even though they didn’t win” because the judgement made clear that it was Qantas action that caused, and would cause with a suspension, damage to the economy.

    Isn’t that the criteria the PM needed to refer to the FWA ?

    Had she used her executive power under FWA she still would have been attacked from many quarters.

  171. Metatron, from your link to News.com’s spin. Yep Gillard ignored Joyce and the reason was….

    Ms Gillard was in an executive session of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting and was not available by phone.

  172. If I may have one last say on the way this thread was derailed . . .

    The most offensive comments I have ever read on a blog site are posted on Gutter Trash by a commenter who goes by the name of Klan Girl. Her comments are repulsive, yet ToM responds with something like “Klan Girl seems nice”.

    Then he races over here and attacks people.

    I do believe his intentions of coming here are to cause nothing but trouble.

  173. Well doesn’t Abbott look like an absolute dick right now, well a greater dick than he usually looks like.

    Industrial action terminated and flights start back to day with normal services resuming as CASA clears the planes.

    Abbott called for Gillard to take action and she was doing that all along, and was successful.

    Now all of Abbott’s jumping up and down and making ludicrous demands makes Gillard look good, just as Bernhard Keane pointed out might happen.

    Now watch the Liberal Party emergency spin plan go into action claiming it was Abbott who got the Qantas flights back into the air by “forcing” Gillard to take action.

  174. And the whole conflab revolved around the fact that Sue didn’t know that Joyce is gay. I’ll let everyone in on a secret..I’m with Sue, I didn’t know that he was gay either.

  175. Mobius and:

    Well doesn’t Abbott look like an absolute dick right now, well a greater dick than he usually looks like.

    Yes 😀

  176. Abbott will immediately ring the Prime Minister to congratulate her on getting the planes back in the air – oh wait a minute, a pig just flew by.

    Meanwhile in a quaint metropolitan newspaper the Prime Minister is blamed for not sitting by the phone waiting for his phone call.

  177. Thanks to the Tele and its headline article “Qantas CEO Alan Joyce made phone call to PM Julia Gillard but was ignored”

    The premise of lunalava’s article is confirmed.

    “Is our system of democracy under attack? There is prima facie evidence that Qantas and both the NSW and Victorian Liberal Governments have colluded in raising the level of this dispute.”

    More should be exposed of the action of the CEO and Board of Qantas. There should also be investigation by the shareholders of their management?
    Should the Board be sacked?

  178. Miglo

    Will I do

    Abbott you creepy, stalking,****rse hole the PM of Australia Julia Gillard is doing her job.

  179. The Tele is wrong with its headline. Qantas has contacted Gillard’s office to say article is misleading.

    Just another Headline for the Media inquiry.

  180. It’s not that Qantas CEO Joyce is a liar, it’s that this overpaid guy is such a poor liar.

    For those with third world internet access read the transcript of the “Inside Business” interview between Alan Kohler and Joyce here:

    http://www.abc.net.au/insidebusiness/content/2011/s3351500.htm

    Good on Alan Kohler for doing his research and pulling Joyce up on his half truths.

    ALAN JOYCE: But, Alan, you know, the fact is that it’s a lot of misinformation on this. And as I said, 30 per cent decline in ’09, 20 per cent in ’10, and a decline last year. I have taken a decrease over that period of time and I still get less than Jetstar’s CEO.

    ALAN KOHLER: I’ve read the REM report and what it says is that if it hadn’t been paid in shares – which is the cause of you getting 71 per cent increase this year – what would have happened is it would have been smoothed over the previous few years. So you wouldn’t have got those decreases in previous years, but you wouldn’t have got such an increase this year. That’s what it says.

    Yes there is a lot of misinformation out there and very little is coming from the employees.

    For the lucky few with fantastic broadband you can watch it at this link:

    http://www.abc.net.au/iview/?series=2935078#/view/831109

  181. The NSW government I say have colluded with the Qantas mgt to try and attack the federal govt. this story today

    “THE Qantas dispute has damaged the international reputation of NSW as a tourism destination, the state government says, amid warnings of a ”code red” emergency for the national industry.

    The NSW Tourism Minister, George Souris, accused the federal government of sitting ”idly by” while the state suffered.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/code-red-alert-for-nsw-industry-20111030-1mqha.html#ixzz1cIhI5P00

    I suggest the next time Barrel O’Lies meets the PM to ask for a handout for his state that he wear a red tie,

  182. Sue, plus in the text of the article itself is this “Ms Gillard was in an executive session of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting and was not available by phone.”

    10.30am was the decision of the Qantas board re the lock-out
    2.00pm Anthony Albanese was advised of the decision.

    But according to the DT, it was Gillard who refused to talk.

  183. I liked this part of the Kohler interview:

    ALAN KOHLER: But you must accept that there’s an element – that it looks like there’s an element of “up yours” about this.

    ALAN JOYCE: No …

    ALAN KOHLER: You know – “do as I say, not as I do”.

    Well a lot of Qantas customers and staff will now be the ones saying up yours.

  184. The funny thing from the article above is that the Qantas shut down will affect the well known festival of western Sydney “Parramasala”.

    Apparently “the Parramatta festival could lose $750,000 due to artists who did not arrive and lost business for restaurants and hotels.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/code-red-alert-for-nsw-industry-20111030-1mqha.html#ixzz1cIjL03AE

    This festival WOW must be HUGE as it is is to be opened today on a Monday a work day.

  185. For once in a blue moon I find myself agreeing with Bob Katter…

    Mr Katter says Qantas will be foreign-owned if Mr Joyce gets his way, and says he will meet with union leaders later today to warn them not to fall into the airline’s “trap”.

    “I would call upon the [Qantas] board, if there is anyone left there with any sense of brains, that they should have him dismissed immediately before we move into the Ansett-type situation,” Mr Katter said.

    Mr Katter says he believes Mr Joyce is preparing to sack thousands of workers and ship their jobs overseas where labour is cheap.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-31/katter-calls-for-joyce-to-be-sacked/3609504

  186. Min that explains the funny walk. abbott is only trying to keep it all in but them piles just keep things popping. in QT every time he jumps up julie bishop’s eyes bug out, well now we know.

  187. If a union had totally closed down a national airline stranding passengers world wide and costing the economy $230,000,000 per day there would be outcry from the media and business community of such hysterical proposrtions you would hear it on the moon. They are killing us all the bad bad unions full of thuggery and disregard for everyone and everything.

    A union is required to give 3 days notice. QNTAS management gives 3 hours notice.

    A CEO and his board shut down an international airline stranding passengers worldwide and costing our economy $230,000,000 and what do we get. The CEO had no choice and $230,000,000 is afterall only 1 hour of our GDP.

    The hypocrisy astounds me.

    In addition the Murdoch Press prints more lies regarding Qantas phoning the PM and the call was ignored.

    I must remember the next time a union disadvantages and delays a few passengers for a few hours in comparison to the total shutdown of a national airline holding a total nation and economy to ransom. The unions cost must be 1 second of our GDP.

  188. ‘I guess you slag the blogs or posters in them off in GT as well.’

    Is this generally unacceptable across the blogosphere?

    I can’t find my blog etiquette book.

  189. Sue.. @8.18am 😀 I think that in the future instead of calling it Abbott Breaking News, it will just have to be Abbott Breaking Wind.

  190. Mr Katter how about telephoning the Board man previously known as General Cosgrove. He prided himself in looking out for the diggers and the those who suffered after the cyclone Larry. Well now there is the travelling Aussie that he decided to forget, the Australian PM who he tried to embarrass as she was hosting CHOGM, the workers of his company who had stopped all industrial action and wanted to negotiate. Yes Mr Board Member Cosgrove have a chat with Katter.

  191. el gordo

    Slagging and abuse are usually reserved for those who cannot argue their case with facts and reason. While there may not be an etiquette book for blogs, I have no doubt that you would find slagging and abuse in public offensive. Or at least I hope you would.

  192. The PM on Sky, that the section which Abbott is talking about has never been used in Australia’s history..potential to be a legal minefield.

  193. El gordo, some consistency would be nice. For example, over at GT I’ve seen Sancty make gay jokes/quips and they are either laughed off or ignored. Hence I find it deeply disappointing that people are attacked on this blog by that same person who chooses to ignore similar comments on his prefered blog.

  194. Just watched David Kosh on Sunrise postulating “Why should Qantas not employ overseas workers?”

    Why not indeed, we could always get a secondhand celebrity in from the US to do your job David, I bet they would work for less money.

  195. shaneinqld

    you are right about the double standard applied in the media. writing about hypocrisy is writing about murdoch media.
    apparently, joyce HAS to make the media rounds today to ensure that the misleading headline about the pm not taking HIS call is corrected.

  196. Ah ha, a suggestion that the phonecall to Gillard 3 hours before taking action (but not received by her), came with the threat that if the information about the lock-out was leaked that action would be taken sooner.

  197. lunalava

    wouldn’t a US guy love the exchange rate. 7 could pay less and the new guy would still be happy. stokes here is your chance, kochie says so.

  198. I thought El Gordo had gone into winter retreat – kinda like a self induced Maunder Minimum.
    I always get a laugh when people claim “special victim” status.

  199. Min

    It is basic commonsense and most of us can (or should be able to) distinguish between humour and slander and implied slander under the guise of humour. Having said that even repetetive humerous comments have their limit before turning offensive.

  200. Shane, I agree. It is also clearly about intention, whether or not the intention is to offend. In this case there was no intention but merely a humourous exchange. This is where common sense should prevail.

  201. It seems I have been blackbanned by the Murcdoch Press because none of my comments have been accepted for over 2 months now, seems facts that do not support the slant on the story are not accepted.

    Funny that reports which subsequently correct an error previously reported never permit comments.

  202. LOL thanks Migs I suppose you could call it a victory of sorts whereas in reality it is a sad reflection of the unbalanced media in our country.

  203. shaneinqld

    i would like a tally of

    people banned by murdoch press vs people who intend to purchase Oz

    *nb. tally to take account of employees of murdoch who must purchase OZ

  204. Sue

    I stopped buying and Murdoch papers as a protest against the obvious bias in reporting.

    After all they say if you don’t like it don’t buy. So I don’t.

  205. I am watching the Joyce press conference..

    Now can i mention garden gnomes. As a warning to all readers,my garden gnome is in for trouble today. that little smiley face will get buried.

  206. I do believe his intentions of coming here are to cause nothing but trouble.

    Who knew, Migs? I suggest we respond to The Derailer with ignore. He is not looking for a discussion or sensible debate His sole purpose is to upset and derail discussion at the Café.

    He craves attention, so I think we should deny him any reinforcement.

    Min, I think I’m the trouble maker in all this gay wife business. I made a comment on the other thread that a reason for Joyce demanding a 71% increase in his salary was because the wife wanted a new Ferrari. I had no idea that he was gay,

    Sue posted a tweet she’d found that his wife would be a man. And all hell broke loose while I was doing boring things like going to a party instead of blogging. With Sue as the target for The Derailer.

    Interestingly, my slagging off a woman didn’t offend his sensibilities. So we can make a couple of assumptions: it was Sue’s turn to cop it no matter what, or she copped it because she’s too uppity and needs to be put in her box!

    And the whole point is that none of us knew he was gay, or gave a toss. A dead sh!t is a dead sh!t, no matter their race, creed religion or sexuality.

    Pity The Derailer doesn’t devote more of his outrage toward the ones who deserve it , like the Liars Party.

    Sue @7.56am, couldn’t Barrel O’Lies (roflmao, btw) have got off his fat, lazy rear end and contacted the PM with his concerns? Seems like a sensible appr…..oh, sorry it is the Liars Party we’re dealing with here. I forgot that normal people aren’t involved.

    @8.06am, a bit like the Convoy of Cretins, Sue.

    shane, but, but what about the debt? Shouldn’t we be rending garments and stuff? Oh that’s right, it’s an overpaid bully boy from management costing the economy $230,000,000 per day. That’s alright then, no harm done.

    Shane, just basic common sense isn’t it.

    Apparently not, Min.

    lunalava @8.34am, cough, cough, splutter, splutter. That would never work, cough, splutter!

    Oh come now, Migs @8.33am. It’s much worse if someone, preferably female I’ve noticed, tells a fellow blogger that a person is openly gay! Homophobia and appalling sexist abuse writ large! Good heavens, man! Can’t you tell the difference?

    @8.46am, rofl.

    Min @8.34am, corrupter and corrupter!

    shane, you’ve only got yourself to blame-all that truth and facts. This isn’t a newspaper, it’s a collection point for fiction writing.

    Careful, Sue. the Society for the Prevention of Slagging of Gnomes is closely scrutinising your every word.

  207. Joyce has been sprung telling porkies. The Prime Minister and Anthony Albanese have just finished a press conference on Sky News where they talked a lot about the lies Joyce has been peddling all morning. He did not try to phone Julia Gillard, he did not tell Albanese there would be a lock out, he did not ask the government to intervene. Everything he had claimed was carefully and politely destroyed. Apparently the lying little sod is going to do a presser and ‘revise’ his earlier claims. I bet the media kindly forgets to cover that, they are all too busy trying to blame everything on Gillard.

  208. Shane, don’t worry. It was just a casual comment and no harm done except by those whose intention it was to use it as excuse to go on (yet another) attack against Miglo’s blog and his contributors.

  209. Migs…how dare you! I’m shocked. I thought that you set this blog up in support of short-arsed people. I am a short-arsed person myself and I take great umbrage at this blog’s continuous denigration of short-arsed persons. You, you and your feminist cohorts are continuously running down short-arsed people! How dare you!! I think that I should immediately run away and write a topic about these discriminatory statements of yours.

    I think that I should ignore the word ‘prick’. 😀

  210. Qantas dogfight prelude to real war
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-dogfight-prelude-to-real-war-20111031-1ms37.html

    But the events of the past few days merely have confirmed what was becoming increasingly apparent during recent months – that this dispute is not about the pay and conditions of Qantas employees, it is the first battleground in a looming war between big business and the federal government over workplace relations in general and the Fair Work Act in particular.

    Qantas boss Alan Joyce, portrayed by many as the arch-villain in the dispute, looked harried and worn yesterday as he claimed victory in the decision by Fair Work Australia to terminate the dispute, and justified his actions in grounding the airline. By lunchtime, however, Joyce was looking more like the fall guy – a handsomely paid fall guy to be fair – as it emerged he had been keen to seek a resolution as late as Friday.

    Yet some still say there is no conspiracy.

  211. Pip, do you notice a resemblance between Joyce and Godwin Grech? And a distinct resemblance to a certain email scandal?

  212. Thank you Luna and Migs. I have a feeling that this is one stunt that is going to backfire on Abbott. Unions..yawn, especially as the unions are trying to stop even more jobs being sent offshore.

  213. Someone pointed out to me today that he found it interesting that Abbott was able to quote the exact section of FWA relating to the issue – immediately after the flights were cancelled. For a man who knows nothing, he sure did a good job of plucking this one out of the air.

  214. Migs, on the other thread..unsubstantiated as yet but it is rumoured that Abbott who normally flies Qantas changed his carrier a few days prior to the lockout. As stated, unsubstantiated but I’ll certainly put up any further information should this become available.

    Julia and Albanese can also smell blood….

  215. Even Sky News is saying that “Abbott sidestepped the question twice and called an abrupt halt to the news conference”.

  216. ACCC is investigating Qantas. Ten news. If they knowingly sold tickets when they knew the planes were being grounded.

    Could be faced with million of dollars find.

    They have to pay, I believe around $600 for passengers that board planes in Europe. I also believe there are similar laws in the USA.

  217. Min, it is not blood. It is stench coming from the filth that some insist in dealing in.

    Not a nice smell.

    I fear that it will become worse in this political climate.

    We are struck with it until some settle down. Maybe a couple of positive polls would help.

  218. As is his spending $20 million of Qantas shareholder money in freebies, which is obviously an attempt to get around the ACCC ruling that may go against him. If you want an admission of guilt without directly saying “’twas my fault”, then this action gets close to it.

    Even so the unions are say it’s a very cheap freebie as it nowhere near goes to fully compensating the losses for those directly and indirectly affected by Joyce’s irresponsible action.

  219. I posted this two days ago, but it’s worth repeating …for dissenters like Nil…

    Up, Up and Awry
    http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/up-up-and-awry/

    Because it seems, in later testimony by unions and engineers, Qantas had very good reason to ground its fleet. The representative of the engineers union mentioned that of the 5 planes Qantas had originally ‘grounded’ in the week leading up to the lock out, 4 were scheduled for disposal. One was listed as for sale since March of 2011. Of the 5 planes, all were in need of MAJOR service. And in business speak, MAJOR service cost MAJOR bucks. So by grounding 5 planes that could not fly anyway, Qantas attempted to deceive the public that it was the problem of unions when it was a concerted and deliberate falsehood.

  220. I have and an interesting afternoon I have spent the afternoon at my sons place. I put on Fox news which I do not have at home.

    I made a comment about Qantas, My 16 year old grandson was confused about what I was talking about. He Was not so ignorant about issue4s whole living with me up to a month age.

    That is OK, he is only 16 years old.

    A little while later my son’s girlfriend came in. The Qantas PR lady was once again spreading her spin.

    It did not take long to realise, she has no idea what I was talking about. She was unaware that Qantas had grounded the fleet. This is the Sunday week after.

    It fascinated that an intelligent woman in her late thirties could be so ignorant.

    Talking after, she said she had no time for the PM. The reason is that she knifed Rudd, Also was mention was the money wasted on BER. I asked her why, she said she had mates that worked on BER and confirmed money was wasted. I ask if they had kept their job, she said yes. I suggest that she go on line and look at the enquiries that did not confirm the waste.

    She was surprised when I said that the spending included much more that school halls. She was amazed when I talked about the computer, white boards and other technology that now is in every classroom.

    She has stopped listening to the news. This occurred about the time the PM came to power. She does not like hearing nothing but bad news. She has no idea what Mr. Abbott has been saying or doing.

    The shame is that she believes what is now occurring, has nothing to do with her.

    If there are many more in the community of similar belief, if is no surprise the polls are not moving.

    It has nothing to do with any 24-hour cycle. They have stopped listening in are struck in time.

    This is frightening. She did say the only the person who has anything to say, is her grandmother.

    Us grandmother have to wake our kids up. It is not easy.

    I do not care what side they choose, That is their choice, but they must listen an make an informed choice.

    I do not get out much but this is not the first time I have come up against this attitude.

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