Kevin Rudd and other rumors

Such is an anomaly:

One moment there are accusations that Australia’s Foreign Minister is spending far too many taxpayers dollars on overseas travel in his capacity of Foreign Minister and is hardly ever in Australia, yet the next he is supposed to be working deviously behind the scenes gathering the numbers.

I personally always found Kevin Rudd a very fascinating person, clearly highly intelligent, with unusual interests and a dedication to things that he believes in.

One does not become fluent in Chinese Mandarin without some sort of driving force. And yet at other times he could be somewhat naive such as refusing to cull Liberal supporters from the senior PS, perhaps believing that this generosity of spirit would be appreciated.

Along the way Rudd has been subjected to many many smear campaigns, that the Kevin I’m Here to Help was too good to be true, that he should be the same as all lesser mortals.

From Peter Hartcher

Rudd is not organising a challenge. The speculation is a measure of the government’s rising panic and the febrile atmosphere in the Parliament. The Foreign Affairs Minister may be in New York at the UN, but his shadow is behind every parliamentary pot plant. He would not be human if he was not dwelling on the possibility of a comeback.

Perhaps Kevin Rudd isn’t human. Human, at least according to the media would have been for Rudd to sit and sulk on the back bench, but he didn’t he immediately volunteered to serve a Gillard government in whatsoever capacity Julia Gillard saw fit. I doubt that anyone could question Kevin Rudd’s putting every possible effort into the job.

However, even during the Brisbane floods, pants rolled to his knees Rudd has had to bat away leadership speculations – Why, the media questioned would someone such as Kevin Rudd go and help during the Brisbane floods unless he was trying to position himself for a leadership challenge?

This opinion of course goes against the grain of what everyone expects, but just maybe Kevin Rudd is one of those people where the media are not going to get what they expect.

124 comments on “Kevin Rudd and other rumors

  1. Well said. I don’t know how many which ways but loose Kevin Rudd has to say “No, he is not making an effort to take over as Prime Minister again.”
    He is probably smart enough to think that only a fool would want the job in the present political climate of adversity for the Labor Party. Not even a Herculaen effort from a man touched by the Hand of God could overcome the vindictive nature of the forces aligned against the federal government. Which wouldn’t abate if he came back.

  2. Hillbilly, it also struck me that it seems that many people think that only the tippy top, king of the pops, the best top job is only ever good enough. Why even want to be PM when Foreign Affairs is one’s passion?

  3. Which wouldn’t abate if he came back.

    That’s understating it by a long way. The media starting dumping on Rudd from the moment before he became leader of the party, and that only increased exponentially after he became leader and hit an incessant crescendo when he became PM.

    To hear the right saying the media supported Rudd during the 2007 election is to ignore all the background negativity by the media against him and the constant attacks of “suitable alternate PM”, going as far as to judge him as if he were already PM, something Abbott is never judged against.

    Well after Rudd was ousted on the back of a savage barrage of media attacks, the media kept attacking him, and that included some in the media who are known for being sensible and relatively fair minded.

    The media hate Rudd with a passion because he wouldn’t play by their implied but not written Canberra press gallery rules. He was a bureaucratic workaholic nerd first and foremost and they didn’t know how to handle that.

    The moment Rudd steps back into the ring as the belt holder the media will attack with a renewed vigour that will have media production staff hard pressed to keep up. Nothing will be too piddling (cat wee on lawn) to criticise as a monumental disaster, no look, hair out of place, facial tick or small inflection will not be reported as anger or arrogance and no syllable, word or sentence will not be ripped apart as being the most terrible thing a leader has ever done.

    They will continue to do this until the day Rudd leaves politics all together and even then I suspect they will publish the odd story or book here and there still attacking him.

    That is Rudd’s fate if he ever became leader again.

  4. Mobius, clearly the MSM would have a field day should there be another swap..it would be endless tales about a double-knifing and endless speculation about how Rudd was spending his time while Foreign Minister.

    I agree absolutely, Kevin Rudd will never be acceptable to the media because he basically is too difficult for them to understand.

  5. You mean Kevin Rudd,
    Whose name News made mud?
    On whom Labor went sour?
    Now their man of the hour?
    Nah, that’s all canard
    To do down Gillard!
    Let’s put that one to bed
    And focus instead
    On, more worthwhile by far,
    The Treasurer’s gold star!

  6. However, even during the Brisbane floods, pants rolled to his knees Rudd has had to bat away leadership speculations – Why, the media questioned would someone such as Kevin Rudd go and help during the Brisbane floods unless he was trying to position himself for a leadership challenge?

    Why would he go to help, these idiots ask? How about common decency, being a real Christian and a desire to help people in a time of need?

    Foreign concepts to the msm, whose standard of behaviour is set by Emperor Rupert and the Liars Party. These are the people who can see nothing wrong in hacking into a murdered child’s phone, deleting messages and hampering the police investigation and torturing her parents.

    The leader of the Liars Party whose sole contribution during the flood crisis, was to trash the government and bignote for political advantage. The lycra clad leader of the LIars Party, who makes a lot of noise about his Christian values, but shows precious little evidence of actually holding those values.

    Mean spirited, spiteful arrogant liars, bereft of decency despite their oft claimed Christian credentials. These are the standards by which the msm judge Kevin Rudd. Is it any wonder they can’t get a handle on him, when the Liars Party gutter values are their own?

  7. Jane, and then whinge that rebuilding after the flood was going to cost them the princely sum of $5pw. Mean spirited, greedy twats who always want to spread rumours that everyone is worse than themselves – saves lifting one’s own standards.

  8. ‘He was a bureaucratic workaholic nerd first and foremost and they didn’t know how to handle that.’

    That also goes for his fellow MPs and their staff, so they put the knife in.

    I feel a backbench revolt coming on again, but this time its to save their seats and political future.

  9. Will Abbott and the MSM believe the man himself? Or will they find some subtle message in that advice to them to ‘take a Bex and have a long lie down’ which suggests he is still biding his time?

  10. ‘…clearly the MSM would have a field day should there be another swap.’

    Rudd cannot return, the right of the party will see to that, so they need a revolutionary new team.

    The media will love it and the electorate will feel happy that political change can be brought about by ‘the polls’.

    A new democracy.

  11. Not only did they attack Rudd, but also his wife and son.
    Therese for her clothing, their son for being of student age.
    Yes I am sure the MSM would love to have him back ready for the attack.

  12. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw Rudd take over as leader before the next election,

    The anti-Gillard sentiment is too strong in the general public and the media. It cannot remain unnoticed by the Party for much longer.

    Gillard erred in the manner she introduced the carbon price. In my opinion she took a leaf out of Howard’s GST book and took the punt that the unpopular policy should be introduced early, hoping that the anger would die down later in her term. It hasn’t. She has been the subject of a hate campaign that Howard never had to contend with.

    How much better it might have been if she had have explained the reasons for the carbon price rather than thrusting it on an unsuspecting public and hostile media.

    All the good she has done has been ignored. Sadly.

  13. Migs, I will have to disagree with you on this one. IF there is a change of leader, it will not be Kevin Rudd my reasoning being that for Rudd to resume the leadership it will bring up the ghosts of things past..specifically ‘the knifing’. It will mean that Labor will have to admit that they made a mistake in the first place..and that cannot happen in the lead up to the next election.

    Any new leader will have to be a clean-skin.

  14. Min, any clean skin will keep themselves well hidden, especially if they have ambition. I would not be surprised that the PM knew she was being handed a poison chalice.

    There is no reason for Mr. Rudd to want to come back. The man at the end of the day is not stupid.

    The PM is as capable as anyone else that is available.

    Mr. Abbott is beginning to get a look of desperation about him. The revelations of his closest mate Ms. Mirabella is not going to add to his well being.

    Yes, the PM is having problems with the migration bill. The fat lady has not yet sang. I find it hard to believe many want to go back to Nauru. I believe most think it will not work. If that is the case, what is Mr. Abbott offering?

    Filibustering is the tool of the desperate.

  15. CU, I agree. Imagine being in Gillard’s space, being told that Rudd was going to be rolled. It would have been a take it or else situation.

    The whole thing is a media confection, and yes I agree who says that Rudd even wants another stint as PM. The ‘top job’ isn’t always the best job nor suited to one’s capabilities. Rudd clearly is a top Foreign Minister and it’s also clear that this is what he enjoys doing.

    Abbott is offering ‘turning back the boats’ to Indonesia thereby creating an international ‘incident’ with Indonesia..Indonesia has reiterated that they will not take any ‘returns’. The return of TPV’s and the implications of women and children on leaky boats. Nauru at many times the cost of the Malaysia plan.

  16. Miglo, I am inclined to disagree also.

    The media and the Opposition have gone too far, they cannot resist putting the boot in.

    Yes, the PM’s unpopularity is the problem. I do not believe there is any love for the Coalition, even on a State basis.

    This unpopularity does not seem to be based on anything she has or not done.

    There have been polls that show how unpopular she is.

    At the same time, they have put the same people, a long list of the bills that have been passed. Most gave high marks to all, except for a couple.

    The poll shows they do not like what the PM but are happy with most of what she has achieved.

    The problem is perception. The question is whether the perception can be changed.

  17. Those involved in the knifing were: David Feeney, Mark Arbib, Bill Shorten, Bill Ludwig, Karl Bitar, and Don Farrell.

    Therefore I would be going for Combet. Swan, Smith and Albanese should stay where they are as back-up support.

  18. My money’s still on Rudd.

    Whilst logic and commonsense tell me to keep my money in my wallet, Australian politics just dosn’t follow the right script any more.

  19. Min @2.41pm, or even having some standards, which clearly they do not.

    Migs, i think you underestimate Gillard. She’s not going anywhere. Remember it’s two years till the next election and a number of things can, and possibly will happen in that time.

    First, I don’t think Kevin Rudd wants to return to the Lodge. I think he loves what he’s doing now, he’s good at it and the pressure is less, except when the Liars Party needs a “look over there” as they do now with the inheritance scandal looming over the repugnant Sophie Mirabella.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer person, imo. We’ve always known what a disgusting creature she is; hopefully this will prove it beyond doubt. Go the kiddies! Let’s pray it’s a huge, messy and drawn out affair with regular eruptions like Krakatoa, culminating in her humiliating defeat! lol

    The other thing is that who would they have take over? A MSU, if they were to do so, imo.

    Don’t let yourself be spooked, there will be plenty of this rubbish to come. Every time Liealot looks a bit shaky (he looks dodgy all the time), they trot out a revolt in Labor ranks and a spot of leadership speculation.

    Keeps the children happy, I suppose-you know all those Liars Party wankers who try to convince us that the ALP would give them anything but a dose of AIDS.

    Which reminds me, apparently Trioli gave that unpleasant creature Kathy Jackson a bit of a mauling, this morning. Can’t find a link, but there is a report of the interview on TPS.

  20. I agree with Migs, Julia didn’t explain to the electorate the need for a carbon tax.

    The science is not settled.

  21. Migs..I suggest you go and buy a bottle of WT instead. CU and I are right, suffer baby 😉

    One thing that Rudd does extremely well is pattern and number and he will not want a repeat of the same pattern. IF Rudd does want another shot at the leadership, and there is nothing to suggest that he does other than media speculation it will not be until after the next election.

    On the other hand, if I should be proved wrong then I owe you a bottle of WT.

  22. El gordo..the carbon tax will go through because Gillard has the Independents on board with this. The carbon tax will be far less painful than the asylum seeker plan has been.

  23. Migs, leave those moths undisturbed. lol Min, CU, I agree with you. With the Mirabella scandal looming over the Liars Party, it’s all hands to the “Look over there!” pumps by Ltd News and the Liars Party.

    I don’t think this will be a scandal they can quietly sweep under the rug-it has all the sordid elements of a scheming slag sinking her hooks into a vulnerable old man in order to fleece him of every penny he has. IMO, he died before she finished milking him dry.

    Anyway, that should shut her vile trap shut for a while. Just imagine the political capital at QT. Time the Liars party got a taste of their own medicine.

  24. Jane the liealots needed a very big look over there, what with Sophie and the unnamed NSW Minister, well really, and the schmucks, sorry insiders, fell for it.
    So the liealots will have 2 court cases running, they have had 2 ill disciplined NSW ministers, the idiot in Vic who wanted to play at Guy Fawkes and …….we will just have to wait and see.

  25. Min @5.05pm, snicker.

    Sue @5.07pm, looks like it’s building up to an uncomfortable few months for the Liars Party.

    Hopefully, the non Ltd News media won’t be able to resist the scandals and will sport lurid headlines every day. All in the interests of fair and balance reporting, you understand.

    Do you think Liealot will be inextricably entangled in the mess? Everything’s crossed.

  26. No Min, I would not say that. Migs is right in that Australian politics just doesn’t follow the right script any more.

    We have had years of media negativity against Labor on all levels.

    I believe this has led to people turning off politics and allowing themselves to rely on perceptions created by the media.

    We now have Coalition governments in three states, none doing much better than Labor did.

    People are starting to question the disconnection between perception and facts.

    Australians are not stupid, they sometimes allow themselves to be mislead.

    I believe some are beginning to ask themselves questions. Australians when in doubt, often side with the underdog.

    The question is who is the under dog in this political climate.

    Yes, Migs there is no script.

  27. el gordo, I disagree, the PM has explained everything well and in a manner that most should understand.

    What the PM has not been able to do, is get heard over the noise that is created by the Coalition and the media.

    Look at today, what is the main story. Mr. Rudd’s nine votes off being PM. Not what has occurred in parliament this week. Not the new changes to Super or the clean energy bill. Not the asylum seekers, no the beat up story on Mr. Rudd.

    The fact that it took police three weeks to investigate allegation against a senior NSW minister or the story that is emerging about Ms. Mirabella.

  28. Remember how everybody laughed when Abbott was elected leader and we thought it would spell doom for the Liberals?

    The script wasn’t followed. He could well be our next prime minister.

  29. “I hope Sophie didn’t take instructions “caring” for the elderly from her mate Bronny.”

    I fear she might have. The man was living in a house on her property when he was admitted to hospital near death. Up to that time, his family could not find out where he was living.

  30. As it stands this very day I believe that Rudd is the best option to prevent this horrible possibility. In spite of what the media says, he is popular with the electorate.

  31. Migs, point taken. It just shows how much Abbott has been propped up by the MSM. How could a less worthy creature than Abbott be our Prime Minister..but then on the other hand the voters kept on re-electing Howard.

  32. What’s worse than having Abbott as prime minister is having Hockey as treasurer. It is hard to inspire any faith that he’ll be able to steer us through the pending world economic gloom.


  33. “The script wasn’t followed. He could well be our next prime minister.”

    It’s a scary thought Migs.

    And Joe “how much is the black hole now?” Hockey would be treasurer, it’s a fate worse than deff!

  34. With the world expected to enter another economic crisis I think the media and the electorate should be focusing on economic management rather than the less important issues. The Carbon Tax won’t destroy us, however poor economic management will. Love him or hate him, you have to admit that Swan did a good job to keep us out of a recession during the GFC. Can you trust Hockey to do the same?

  35. “Can you trust Hockey to do the same?”

    Not in a pink fit…!!

    All the Libs would do is use the GFC (and the current situation) to justify why the worst off should suffer more..!

    Just as we are witnessing in the UK and Europe!

    In Spain, youth unemployment is now at 40%!!!

    No wonder they’re bloody rioting!

    UNI graduates with no job prospects while the rich prosper…

    It’s a Disgrace*


    *Registered trademark of the perpetually outraged at Gutter Trash

  36. PM on SBS news. Karen Middleton asked PM Gillard if she had investigated the rumors on Rudd, the PM looking straight to the camera replied ” why would I investigate a Liberal distraction”


  37. “I shall ignore the troubles of the world and drag my jet lagged body off to bed for forty winks”

    REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS!!!!

    😉

  38. Oakshott has put up an amendment “known as the Bali Process, which in 2002 created a conference on people smuggling, trafficking in persons and related transnational crime’’.

    “By supporting this regional process, the focus on short-term political opportunism that is framing the current debate is removed, without limiting Australia’s opportunity to coordinate an approach that current or future governments consider necessary,” he said in a statement.’

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-says-julia-gillard-must-pass-the-asylum-bill-or-step-down/story-e6frfkw9-1226143485115#ixzz1YlVQoA7B

    This may have legs and would take the heat off Julia.

  39. El gordo
    The Oakshott amendment was highlighted yesterday under the Abbott wins what area, the govt has already said it would support the Oakshott amendment. More importantly the next line to that quote is relevant.

    “It would allow for consideration of a range of measures including, but not limited to, offshore processing, onshore processing or community detention.”

    http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-says-julia-gillard-must-pass-the-asylum-bill-or-step-down/story-e6frfkw9-1226143485115#ixzz1YfnqkwDu

    Oakshott, during the Migration debate,stated he would be introducing the amendment. Oakshott spoke on the importance of the Bali process, which was started by Downer.

  40. Sue @5.11pm, wouldn’t be a good look for him. But I’d say she’s ruthless and definitely nasty enough to do it.

    Everything’s crossed.

    Well that made sense. I’m running a fever, so I put it down to that. I could do without this cold or whatever the hell it is.

    An accountancy firm will cost their policies? Didn’t we have that farce already?

    40% youth unemployment in Spain, reb? I think we’re in for a a horrid ride. Perhaps we should find some suitable caves and hunker down. I don’t see how we can come through unscathed.

    I think I will follow Migs’ lead and retire as well with some neurofen zavance. Excellent stuff for aches and pains.

    The more I hear about the Independents, the more I admire them. I think they’ve been very good for this Parliament. should be more of their sensible approach, imo.

  41. (Me, I’m kind of bored with what’s behind the news cycle. Rudd and Smith continue with AUSMIN-related realignments and integrations; the Coalition announce they’re second-guessing the Defence White Paper. Rudd’s busy jaunting overseas at the UN GA, counting numbers for a SC bid; Jamie Briggs asks some more questionable questions about travel expenses, and some self-disinterested speculators segue into counting the numbers of green bottles on the wall and on a change of government for the ninety-ninth time. Meanwhile, we shall eagerly await the engrossment of 2002-2011’s up-to-41-nations’ Bali Process activities into not-barrackers’ insta-expert du jour-du facto-de jure accounts of short-term, politically-opportunistic, ad hoc, asylum-seeker-and-other-complex, interrelated, transnational-issues policy(ies) formation(s) from an uniquely middle-Australian perspective.)

  42. As the current leadership beatup goes on, I find myself thinking that monster, the NSW Labor Right, has been somewhat maligned.’Twas the media took Rudd down, not them & in this perpetual present we’re apparently supposed to forget that. It suits the media to blame others that they may retain their facade of objectivity.
    P.S. anyone know whether that SC George Brandis has written to any Police Commissioners recommending they investigate the Mirabella business?

  43. BSA Bob, excellent point. With the media ruling the debate they are not exactly going to say t’was us who done it.

    As far as Mirabella, to date most of it seems little more than hot juicy gossip..and we all know how those sell newspapers…so although it’s a ‘family feud’ Mirabella probably can’t be caught on any illegal action. Drat!

    Gifts from friends are not required to be recorded if there is no appearance of a conflict of interest.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/mirabella-in-hot-seat-over-qc-lovers-dying-days-20110922-1knct.html#ixzz1Ytr5LMx4

  44. P.S. anyone know whether that SC George Brandis has written to any Police Commissioners recommending they investigate the Mirabella business?

    The what, BSB? Haven’t heard of that one. Perhaps the government should ask him what action he’s taken in this regard, as he’s such a stickler for thorough investigations.

    Min @5.39am, if the siblings win, she would face charges, I assume. Fingers crossed.

  45. I wonder if we’ll hear much from those bastions of truth, justice and transparency in financial matters on Ms Mirabella’s oversight, Sue? I trust there will be a very strong “Please explain”, from the government.

  46. Jane, not unless the siblings can prove that the old bloke was defrauded in any way. They could go for reduced capacity but that would mean that would that the siblings lawyers would need prove that knowing of his Alzheimer’s and during the period of his reduced capacity, that she took advantage of this for financial gain. It has to be a causal relationship rather than just a suspicion of. That is, if the old bloke also gave Mirabella substantial gifts during the term of capacity and this did not alter after his Alzheimer’s then there is no provable causal relationship.

  47. The man’s children do not seem concerned about the money. They seem more concerned about how he ended up in hospital in such a poor condition.

    They have concerns that they could not locate him.

    They question how a man with his health problems was in a fit state to sign anything.

    The son and daughter are questioning the big loans made to her, to assist her entry to politics and to buy her farm.

    Living with a man for five years is a big thing to keep from your own family.

    It is a queasy story that does need some explanation.
    As Mr. Bolt, his cohorts and some on these sites says, it goes to her character and judgement.

  48. Min, as you and CU say, it will depend on whether she manipulated him financially after he fell victim of Alzheimer’s. If that can be substantiated, she may be in a lot of trouble, particularly as she’s both a lawyer and an MP.

    And she must be in deep doo doo for not declaring the huge loans she got from him.

  49. Jane, it will depend upon whether it can be proven whether it was a ‘loan’ or a ‘gift’. A loan is required to be declared but a gift where there is no conflict of interest is not. As you say she is a lawyer, my bet is that Mirabella has all of her bases covered.

  50. She might have her bases covered legally and maybe politically.

    She cannot do this so easy morally. This man had friends and a reputation as well.

    At the very least, she will be seen as gold digger.

  51. CU, morally Mirabella has been long gone in my opinion since she decided to not present herself when a motion was passed unanimously apologising to the stolen generations.

  52. Sue. you would think there are no political stories to follow.

    For starters what about one on how we should be treating asylums seekers. Maybe a look in to alternate ways to stop the boat trade.

    Maybe an article showing us why Nauru will work and is the best option.

    Another on why it is OK to splash a Labor member, across the media, leaving a club but a Liberal senior minister in a similar situation has the right to be protected.

    Maybe a article on the changes made to Superannuation this week.

    There is no need to make up stories.

    The PM is safe for the time being. There are too many important issues being addressed at this time, to allow time for switching horses in mid stream.

    If the back bench, as reported want a change, they deserve to lose their seats because of lack of political nous and disloyalty.

    It is time for those who decade themselves political journalists stop being gossip reporters and start plying their trade.

  53. CU, astute as always. With the amendments to the Migration Law and the Carbon Tax there is absolutely no way that there is going to be a change of leader at this time.

    It seems to me to be an attempt to distabilise the government..another tried and true method..throw rumours around and get the backbenchers edgy.

  54. CU And Min. just another “look over there” beat up to take the heat off Mirabella, Liealot, the Liars Party and the Greens, imo.

    I doubt that the backbenchers are edgy at all. I would imagine that they’ve been kept in the loop wrt the rumour mill.

    There will be a lot more Liars Party distractions, to paraphrase the PM, in the coming weeks as the heat is turned up on Liealot, Mirabella and the Liars Party.

  55. Jane, yes indeed..I believe that there is a Carbon Tax to be debated in about 7 weeks time, not that you would know it from the news.

  56. “Jane, yes indeed..I believe that there is a Carbon Tax to be debated in about 7 weeks time, not that you would know it from the news.”

    It is being debated now. It will be voted on in about 7 weeks.

    There is also a Tax summit in a couple of weeks, maybe the media could have something to add to that.

  57. Min And CU, I wouldn’t put the house on it getting much msm attention. Not enough sound and fury signifying nothing, for that lot. (With apologies to the Bard)

    From what Swannie had to say in his interview with Barrie Cassidy on Blowharders, this morning, the Tax summit could be interesting. But I don’t feel hopeful that it will be reported accurately.

    I hope the government can come to some sort of accommodation with Andrew Wilkie on his pokies bill, soon. They need to pass the carbon pricing bill asap and they need him and that idiot Bandt to ante up.

  58. Jane, I do wonder how accurately Wilkie is being recorded by the MSM. Wilkie, whistleblower would hand the government over to Tony Abbott because Gillard couldn’t deliver the poker machine reforms which is his passion.

    During grand final week the AFL and NRL are planning to run television advertisements against mandatory pre-commitment technology for high-intensity pokies.

    AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou and individual club presidents are scheduled to meet on Monday to map out campaign strategies.

    Tasmanian independent MP Andrew Wilkie says he’s disappointed with the AFL and the NRL and has revealed he faces potential legal action from Clubs Australia and Clubs NSW over comments he made on the pokies reform issue.

    “I would have thought the AFL would have taken a leadership role,” Mr Wilkie told reporters in Hobart today.

    Mr Wilkie slammed Collingwood president Eddie McGuire’s claim the pokies reforms were a “footy tax”.

    What an absolute load of codswallop from McGuire. The only people that these reforms will effect are the poker machine addicts and it should be made known that this is what these wealthy clubs are doing. Certainly there are addicts who frequent small country clubs..but why pray tell are these the most wealthy sporting clubs in the nation trying to stop these reforms.

  59. For our media, seeing is believing, unfortunately believing is also seeing. They suffer from “group think”; a classic recent example was when Sideshow Samantha Maiden wrote a book review of Lindsay Tanner’s “Sideshow” without even reading the book (where is Sideshow Sam nowadays?).
    No journalist bothers with checking facts any more (look they are under too much pressure and don’t have the time OK).
    If it sounds a good story and MIGHT be true well that’ll do.

    “The truth isn’t easily pinned to a page. In the bath tub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find…”

  60. And do you note that all the articles in the trash news are not about the pokie tax and problem gambling but rather pokie tax will kill/ end / bring down gillard govt. So more BS by the agenda movers of trash press.

    From the other side of politics where we should not be looking we have had a sample of lewd sex, gold digger sex and a maybe on the campaign trail sex.

  61. Min, on the ABC news tonight, the presidents of the 2 codes were slamming the proposed pokie legislation and talking about the ads they intend to run.

    I wasn’t paying too much attention at first, but when I heard these characters justifying their opposition to the legislation, I was disgusted. There attitude is a direct attack on families of problem gamblers and the gamblers themselves, imo.

    Gamblers are far worse than drinkers as far as devastating families goes. I’m not excusing drinkers, but there’s a limit to the amount they can squander on grog; gamblers can lose everything in the blink of an eye.

    House, car, savings-everything. Not only that, they will steal from anyone. There is no limit to the destruction this addiction can wreak on people.

    For the clubs to label this legislation a footy tax is beyond hypocrisy; it’s an absolute bloody disgrace! They need a big fat kick up the bum.

    I just hope that the opposition does the right thing for once and helps speed this legislation through Parliament. if they don’t, that should signal to all and sundry that they really don’t give a toss about anything except grubby political point scoring.

  62. If we make it hard for addicted gamblers to lose their money, the whole club industry will collapse.

    There will be no money for the support of community sport.

    Sorry, something does not compute.

    We need those addicted to gambling to keep our, pub, club and sporting venues going.

    That is what the club and pub industry are saying.

  63. Pingback: Un-named sources in the Coalition………. | polliepomes

  64. jane
    the opposition has already said they will support voluntary rather than mandatory commitment cards. as to them sticking to even that, no.
    then in today’s smh, coorey has an article on the tax, but ends it by saying,

    ‘This internal discontent is fertile ground for a revival by Kevin Rudd, who could send Wilkie and his reforms packing and call a snap election’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/afl-puts-the-boot-into-pokie-plans-20110925-1krkh.html#ixzz1Z0DRA8I7

    forget the misery of gambling it is all about rudd return. what hope have we on issues or public policy when we have crap journalism.

  65. Jane, consider the amount of $s wasted by poker machine addicts, and apart from the devastating consequences that you’ve mentioned and for an addict there are indeed inevitable, think of how this money could otherwise be spent.

    So the gambling industry and the Clubs are saying give us your money and don’t spend it on anything worthwhile.

  66. Sue, voluntary commitment cards will work with the occasional gambler who consider a flutter on the pokies as a special treat but definitely will NOT work on gambling addicts. To help gambling addicts it has to be mandatory pre-commitment.

    The Clubs are saying it all, we will go broke if we can’t rely on the revenue received from gambling addicts.

  67. Sue, none of course except for the one and only casino..I believe that when you go out for dinner they serve beautiful meals plus provide real entertainment instead of being confronted by garrish rows of poker machines.

  68. Min
    the machines they want the mandatory pre-committment on, $1200/hour. Therefore the $156,000 could be lost over 130 hours
    8 hr working day , 16 days 2 hours

  69. Sue, it’s unbelievable isn’t it. Person#1 spends $300pw gambling while Person#2 spends $156,000 building a new super extension for his house. Which is best for the economy?

  70. “To hear the right saying the media supported Rudd during the 2007 election is to ignore all the background negativity by the media against him and the constant attacks of “suitable alternate PM”, going as far as to judge him as if he were already PM, something Abbott is never judged against.”

    The media was never kind to Mr. Rudd or Labor. It was the public that turned against the Coalition government. Mr. Howard bought his own downfall about.

    Maybe the problem is that they voted out, without giving much thought to what they were putting in Howard’s place. I feel the same happened in NSW. We have a Coalition government that was voted in for one reason, it is not Labor.

    We have coalition governments in at least two states that are not loved. I am not sure that they are going to be given any tolerance either.

    Maybe Australia is at cross roads and the voters are saying a curse on both houses.

    This may not be good for democracy.

    For a democracy to thrive, it needs it’s citizens to partake in politics.

    Anything Else is a cop out. It is not very bright to criticise something, you have create by not taking interest.

    Al that one needs to do is question the perceptions they have of the present government and opposition.

    We need to ask both the government and opposition a lot of how, where, what and why questions.

    We need to say more often, is that true and why is it true. Not hard really. Does not take much time.

  71. I believe the restraints one wants to put on poker machines may not help those who are addicted now. I is an undeniable that these people have to lose all and reach rock bottom before they come to their senses.

    It is like the actions we have taken to lower tobacco usage, aim at stopping more becoming addicts.

    Maybe the new restrictions will help some give up the addiction, who knows.

    It is also the community giving the message that addicted gambling is not acceptable, as they over decades have done with smoking.

    Has anyone look at the percentage of people who visit a club on a regular basis and how many of those play poker machines. I believe that number will be small.

    Another question I would like to see asked, how many are happy that pokers machines where allowed in pubs. What has been the result for pub patrons after poker machines were introduced.

    Did they improve pub facilities, or did they became a licence for pubs to print money.

    How many go to pubs today to see the latest music and entertainment, , as they did in the seventies and later?

    I am of the opinion that there is a very small numbers, making a big noise.

  72. CU, as with all addictions it is about harm minimisation.

    So we treat poker machine addiction the same as smoking addiction.

    Making cigarettes more expensive has never worked but restricting access has. It’s the same as poker machines. More expensive just means that people spend more, compare the old 9 line machines with today’s 50 line machines.

    These machines have meant that people spend the same amount of money 5 times more quickly or spend 5 times the amount of money in the same amount of time. And the latter is precisely what has happened because gambling addicts generally work within a timeframe.

    The number of people who visit Clubs and gamble on a regular basis might be small, but these are the people who the gambling industry are fighting over. These people are the Clubs’ bread and butter.

  73. “We discuss Labor’s woes every morning.”

    Maybe Mr Pyne should have said, we make up what Labor is doing every morning.
    Maybe the Coalition’s time would be better spent addressing what is happening each day, not dwelling on what they would like things to be. It is nice to have dreams. It is dangerous to start believing dreams are facts.

    Maybe the Opposition is losing track of reality.

    “..OPPOSITION Leader Tony Abbott has put the Coalition on an official election war footing, warning his senior frontbench to prepare for a December poll – with Kevin Rudd as Labor leader.

    Mr Abbott called a special leadership meeting last Thursday in Canberra to “war-game”‘ an early poll strategy.

    Senior Liberal sources confirmed Mr Abbott and senior frontbenchers met to plan for a scenario that Mr Rudd would challenge for the leadership when parliament resumes in two weeks and call a snap poll.

    The earliest this could happen would be late November or early December.

    The meeting mapped out tactics to deal with the possibility that Labor will change leaders …”

    “…..Senior Liberal sources confirmed the meeting took place and revealed the leadership group was now trying to plot strategies to deal with the possibility Mr Rudd could call an election on the basis the parliament was unworkable – less than 18 months after the last election.

    He could also delay the carbon tax, break the promise to independent Andrew Wilkie on pokie reforms and announce a change in policy direction on asylum seekers….”
    “…..Leader of opposition business Mr Pyne tried to downplay any specific strategies to counter the possibility of a Rudd versus Abbott election.

    “We are always ready for an election,” Mr Pyne said. “We discuss Labor’s woes every morning.”

    Mr Abbott’s office would not comment on the leadership meeting…”

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/coalition-mps-warned-of-early-election-with-kevin-rudd-as-labor-lead/story-e6frfkvr-1226146456489#ixzz1Z1RPvYzn

  74. Abbott has been saying that an election would be called any tick of the clock ever since the Independents decided to back a Gillard government.

    191 Bills passed I believe more than the first year of the Howard government..and this government is somehow ‘unworkable’?

  75. We need to remember that that there is no mention of the PM in the Constitution. This is for a good reason; voters do not elect PM’s. They are selected by the party that gains the most votes.

    Parties are also not mentioned, again for a good reason.

    Our Head of State is the Queen represented by the Govern General.

    There is no mention of a two party system. There is no mention of any party system.

    The government would be formed by numbers of votes given by individual elected members on the on the floor of the Lower House.

    The PM is selected by members of their own party, as is the Liberal leader. The Coalition does not choose the Opposition Leader, the Liberal Party do.

    The government of the day remains in power as long as they retain a vote of confidence on the floor of the Lower House. The Constitution allows for change if this confidence is lost. The Constitution calls on anyone else who is able to garner the numbers to do so. It does not call for a new election.

    The most that Mr. Abbott can expect before Christmas is an election for the Lower House. Yes, Upper House elections can be called further down the track, even a DD after the grounds are created. It would be a long time before Mr. Abbott got control of the Senate.

    As Mr. Abbott refused to follow convention now, it would be silly for him to expect any other leader to do so.

    Mr. Abbott has convinced Australians that it is winner take all and that all goes. Mr. Abbott lives by the belief that an Opposition role is to destroy governments and do all that is necessary to get back in power.

    Why does Mr. Abbott believe that a future Opposition would not play the game as ruthless as he has?

    The Founding Fathers have built checks and balances into the system. Is this a bad thing?

    The Founding Fathers have attempted to put in place a system, that all individuals are respected and have a say.

    “THERE are, the experts claim, many reasons to vote against Julia Gillard at the next election. Topping the list is the allegation that she conspired against Kevin Rudd in the greatest act of disloyalty to a leader since caucus elected John Watson in 1901.

    They allege voters were disgusted at the “assassination” of Rudd and, while recognising he made mistakes, he had done nothing to warrant his removal. Caucus had usurped the role of voters. How, the voters asked, could caucus replace the leader they had chosen without consulting them? It was unheard of, and it destroyed the credibility of the new Prime Minister. The theory has one flaw. It is bullshit. There have been numerous challenges for the Labor leadership since federation. None were made by voters…….”

    “…..Throughout all this Gillard remained his loyal deputy. Of the many MPs and senators I spoke to not one suggested she had any part in a conspiracy to dethrone Rudd. He had survived for one reason: polls showed he would romp home at the next election. All that changed after a series of mishaps including the pink batts fiasco, the mining tax and, after Copenhagen, his loss of interest in climate change. Overnight Labor’s support collapsed and the reason for keeping Rudd disappeared. His replacement was obvious. The faction leaders went to his deputy and told her to run. When she refused, declaring loyalty to Rudd, she was told, “If you don’t run we’ll find someone who will.”

    The rest is history.

    There may be a number of reasons to vote against Gillard, but a conspiracy involving her in the “assassination” of Rudd and the usurping of the role of caucus is not among them….”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/the-experts-have-got-it-wrong-gillard-was-not-disloyal-to-rudd/story-e6frgd0x-1226146014954

  76. Sue @7.38am, what was it the PM said? Don’t write crap? Really restores your faith in the msm when idiots like Coorey turn a story about a serious social issue into more crap journalism, doesn’t it?

    CU @10.41am. Do you hear the sound of pigs flying by? How stupid do these people think we are?

    The clubs made money before pokies and they still will, they’ll just have to work harder at fleecing the public.

    And the crap about how much good they do with the money, is pretty hollow when you consider how many people’s lives are ruined by gambling addiction. Seems an awfully high price for the victims to pay so the clubs can big note.

    @12.39pm, seems like the Liars Party dream factory is in overdrive. I wonder what they’ll do when nothing happens except that more legislation is presented and passed to the upper house? No leadership change, no snap election.

    Will Liealot keep his troops on high alert for the next couple of years? In some ways it would be fun for the government to scare up some vague election/leadership change rumours and watch the Liars Party bung on the tin foil hats and scurry around in endless election mode, only to end up with egg on their collective faces, time and again.

    In time, you’d think even cheerleaders and their idiot compatriots in the msm would get tired of Liealot’s false alarms-the wanker who cried wolf a zillion times!

  77. I like reading your comments. It feels like I am amongst friends.I feel althought that all criticism of Tony Abbott is like water of a ducks’back. He is teflon coated. Nothing seems to stick. If the kind of behaviour or comments that ae made by Tony Abbott were made by a Labor party opposition leader they would have been history by now. However, TA has a charmed life and is no almost guaranteed to become the next PM. What is it with the Australian voters that they cannot see through him?

  78. Thank you Monica your comment is very much appreciated. All that I can imagine is that the media wants ‘excitement’, Tony Abbott to become Prime Minister..that will be the headlines. The media does not care nor will they ever care who is Prime Minister, they’re journalists not elected representatives..why should they care. Journalists in your average daily are not paid to care, that’s the job the Feature Writers.

    Things will tighten for Abbott considerably in the lead up to the next election and for one reason only, no not for ethics, no not whether Abbott is worthy to be Australia’s next Prime Minister..but for the sole reason that the readers enjoy the excitement, nay the thrill of a close contest. A close contest sells newspapers..it will be a close contest because the MSM will tell everyone that it is.

  79. I wish I could agree, Min, but I see Abbott getting an easy ride all the way. Why else would they keep publishing his plea for an early election? Me thinks they’d love to see it.

  80. Miglo, for all his screaming, there is no election. There are no signs that the independents are willing to turn. The Opposite is true. They are more behind the PM.

    As for Wilkie, he has not said he will support Mr. Abbott.
    Mr. Abbott has made a lot of noise. He still has not stopped one piece of legislation.

    He has been a nuisance in the house but not much more.

    He has not got his army out onto the streets. He could not even get the truckie’s to fall into line.

    You hear or see most of his back bench.

    The government is no weaker than it was twelve months ago.

    This PM is not taking easy options.

    If you follow other sites, there seems to be more asking questions.

  81. CU, I don’t think the government is backing away from Wilkie’s pokies bill, do you? The howling from the clubs in NSW & Qld suggests the opposite is true, so I don’t think he will walk to the Liars Party.

    I think he knows that Liealot’s word is worth nothing, not even if it’s signed and witnessed.

    And that’s another thing cheerleaders studiously avoid facing. The fact that the Independents obviously think Julia Gillard is far more trustworthy than Liealot. Otherwise why didn’t they back him?

    They come from the conservative side of politics, after all so it should have been an easy choice for them to go with Liealot. Yet here we are; the minority government is functioning well and taking care of business, despite all the screeching of the opposition and their cheerleaders.

    This is the pee on the carpet we should constantly rub their noses in-that the Independents, the Liars Party’s natural allies, don’t trust them to govern the country. THEY TRUST JULIA GILLARD, but think Liealot is a very bad bet.

    Gillard=truthful & trustworthy; Liealot=liar & untrustworthy.

    I think this is a point that should be hammered at every opportunity. For all their venom and bluster, they have no answer to the question “Why did the Independents cross the road to Julia Gillard? Because they know that Liealot lies a lot.”

  82. jane, the outcry seems to be coming only from the clubs. There does not appear to be any from normal, everyday people. There is also silence from the pub industry.

    No, I do not think that the outcry from casino’s and big clubs are going to hurt the PM. The opposite is probably true.

    The truth is the clubs and the poker machine industry has got too greedy.

    I do not mind playing pokies. I do not go often now, but I do noticed that there is a growth in machines that you can lose your money too quickly.

    I also noticed that many avoid these machines.

    The problem maybe that the government is not going far enough.

    Maybe they should be banning some machines.

    jane, as for the Independents choosing the PM, they all seem very happy and relaxed about their choice.

    It is a furthy for many to condemn the Independents for going against their electorates in siding with Labor.

    If the voters in these electorates wanted the coalition, they should or would have voted for them. They did not.

    The bigger the outcry from th media and Mr. Abbott for the replacement of the present PM, makes one wonder why they are so desperate.

    Next they will be suggesting that Mr. Keating make a comeback.

    Noticed we have had Superannuation improved last week.. This week they have gone one step further in giving women what the want in the arm forces. Why is it shocking for a woman to be killed and seen as bravery for a man? Personally I find it disgraceful that we put any in danger unless we are defending the country and have no choice.

    Next week we have the tax summit.

    The government has not taken a backward step and is still operating well.

    The government is not fragile as Mr. Abbott would like it to be.
    The scandals all seem to be on the conservative side of the fence.

    How is it possible for as slip of the tongue of Mr Rudd has taken up the majority of for two whole days. One Mr. Rudd corrected immediately. Saying PM instead of FM is not that great of error.

  83. Something is puzzling to me.

    Does Mr. Abbott claim to be a mind reader.

    He constantly telling us what is in Mr. Rudd’s mind. What is an amazing skill to have.

    He can add that to his skill to have a magic pudding budget and the ability to perform the miracle of the loaves and fishes when it comes to the country’s finances.

    The problem Mr. Abbott has, is knowing what is in his own mind.

    Not much I suspect, except for his driving obsession to take his rightful place as PM. He also has an inabilty to see the world as it really is.

  84. What, labor is not on the job. There must be fairies working in their place.

    “.WHILE the political focus has been on boats, the Gillard government has taken a pivotal decision to reform visa policy, salvage Australia’s $16 billion third largest export industry and give universities a guaranteed revenue stream as the euro-driven crisis tightens public funding.

    With Australian universities predicting international student revenue would fall off a cliff in 2012, slumping between 5 per cent and 30 per cent, Labor has done something unusual: it has acted swiftly, competitively and exceeded expectations.

    Unfortunately, this is noteworthy these days because it is so rare. In effect, Labor has erected a new framework to save and sustain the overseas student market that peaked in 2009 at a remarkable 491,565 students with enrolments falling since that time……………

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/shining-knight-saves-higher-ed-exports/story-e6frg6zo-1226148403397?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAustralianOpinion+%28The+Australian+%7C+Opinion%29

  85. I have been reading about what Rudd supporters want.

    My question is, who are these supporters?

    Where were they when Mr. Rudd lost the confidence of caucus in the last government?

    Why are they faceless men?

    As they are well hidden, could they be a figment of the media and Mr. Abbott’s imagination?

    Could they be wishful thinking by many?

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