Open thread II

As the Café’s Open Thread is now chokka and I have absolutely no idea how to open a new Tab, I would kindly request the ladies and the gentlemen of the blog to take comments ———>>>>> HERE.

245 comments on “Open thread II

  1. CU on Open Topic I: “Some also realise the matter is not as black or white as many assume.

    Which side will you be on if another boat sinks or the invasion of boats come.”

    Exactly. The same media which poo-poo Gillard’s Malaysia scheme will be the same media which yells blue-bloody-murder when ‘the invasion’ comes…

    And yet Abbott would say, just turn Nauru into another detention centre and all will be tickety-boo. Which reminds me…

  2. Yes, and Min we well know this government is not allowed any leeway for errors.

    This government is expected to know the answers yesterday.

    The truth is whatever this government does, it will be criticised, no matter the outcome.

  3. El gordo, yes I was just watching a snippet about Bowen on Sky..has has been stated this huge step to the right is doing Labor considerable damage.

  4. el gordo, you and I must have watched a different event.

    I just finished saying to Min, how much quieter and better mannered this crowd was than those that are stirred up by Mirabella.

    Of course this crowd was made up of younger people who appear to have better manners than those of my peers.

    Then you got your information from the SMH. It was a small well behaved, passionate crowd.

    Yes they followed Mr. Bowen down the street until he got into a car. No pushing and shoving that I noticed. Police were present but low key.

    Of course that does not make such a good story.

  5. CU, thank you for was just a small snippet that Sky News seemed from the brief clip that Bowen was being jostled.


    “……There are people of goodwill on both sides of this debate. Nobody would question the credentials and motivation of those who passionately argue for onshore processing. However, there are sound policy and humanitarian reasons for supporting the processing of people seeking asylum in Australia in another country when it is part of a properly thought through regional framework. A truly regional approach involves Australia playing more of a role in resettling refugees and helping countries in the region move towards consistent standards and treatments…….

    …..Those who argue for onshore processing usually couch their argument in the following terms: ”We should process asylum seekers here. Those who are refugees should be settled here. Those who are not genuine should be sent back home.”

    It is a fine theory. However, it doesn’t work that way in practice.

    The return of failed asylum seekers can occur only with the agreement of the host country. It is a difficult process that can take place only after an exhaustive process of assessment and appeal, which can take years. In any event, most asylum seekers arriving by boat now come from Iran.

    Despite many attempts by Australia, Iran has made it clear it does not and will not accept the return of failed asylum seekers………

    ………The issues around asylum will always be emotive. We are talking about the hopes and aspirations of real people as well as our understanding and conceptualisation of our national values. But the high moral ground is held by those who argue for what they believe to be the most humanitarian response, not only those who conclude the most humanitarian response is onshore processing..”

    Read more:

  7. Out of context again el gordo and I note that you totally ignored the links and graphs I posted, but I wouldn’t expect anything else.

  8. This is the suburb that Mr.Bowen was speaking from.Smithfield itself has large numbers of Iraqi’s long before we invaded their country.

    “….Finally, there is the matter of public support for our migration program. I am deeply committed to multiculturalism, as has been well documented. I grew up in and represent one the most multicultural areas in Australia. But I know that to build and maintain strong public support for a high migration program and multiculturalism, we need to ensure public confidence in the fairness and orderly nature of migration, including asylum claims….”

    Read more:

  9. The full graph is here, so instead of el gordo’s nonsense (troll?) about a lot riding on it, it just confirms what the science is stating.

    For the rest of you who actually look at the science and what these scientific organisations are showing here is the IJIS website, and please note as you read what they are saying they are not supporting el gordo or whatsupwiththat at all.

    Another el gordo fail, and using whatsupwiththat as a source, huge fail.

  10. Min, yes there was a passinate protest. Mr. Bowen walk down the road for up to 15 minutes it is alleged until he got in a car that pulled up beside him. The car then pulled out from the kerbside and drove off.

    Some challenged Mr. Bowen, as is their right.

    Out of control crowd, no way.

  11. A online poll via Facebook group “Keep Calm Tony Abbott is not PM”

    Will the views of the Independents (see earlier today) on Tony Abbott make the News tonight?

    Clearly the poll is somewhat skewed and given the name of the group, you’re not going find very many right-wingers there but the question is a good one: Will it?

  12. CU @5.50pm you are right of course. I know that people want a more humanitarian approach to the issue of asylum seekers but what to about people smuggling? If people can come up with a possible solution given Indonesia’s attitude that to them this is not a serious issue, then I for one would love to know. Son spends half his life chasing after illegal Indonesian fish poachers and Indonesia won’t do anything about them either.

  13. Honest Mr. Howard???

    “……..JOHN Howard has deleted from the paperback edition of his book the story that, on his first weekend in The Lodge as prime minister, the Howards invited Robert Menzies’s daughter, Heather Henderson, and her husband, Peter, for celebratory martinis….This follows a letter from Mrs Henderson to Mr Howard on December 21 last year rejecting his account, branding it as “quite fanciful” and asking him to remove it from future editions of his book……

    “……I was astonished when I read his account because it didn’t happen,” Mrs Henderson told The Weekend Australian this week.

    She said that during the 11 years Mr Howard was prime minister she and her husband were never invited to The Lodge as a couple to celebrate or to recall the memory of her father, the founder of the Liberal Party.

    In her letter to Mr Howard, Mrs Henderson said: “An invitation to The Lodge is not something that is forgotten. Nor, indeed, is no invitation.”….”

  14. Min, if this PM and government can get a a workable regional framework, maybe the issues in the region can be addressed.

    Doing nothing will achieve nothing.

    Mr.Abbott offers nothing but derision in this regard.

  15. CU, that coming from John Howard surprises me not one ioto 🙄

    There was another one too but for the life of me I can’t remember what it was..another similar situation where JWH tried to bignote himself and the story was later denied.

  16. Patricia, that is such excellent news…I wonder if it will rate a mention on Sky…

    From your link:

    OUR economic strength is the envy of all the world’s developed nations.

    Not surprisingly, Wayne Swan is a leading contender for a major international award.

  17. ‘Another el gordo fail, and using whatsupwiththat as a source, huge fail.’

    The most popular science blog in the world.

    You should really become a little sceptical like the rest of us who actually look at the science.

  18. Howard, one great big lie but never admitted it.
    Protégé, a continuous series of lies but has admitted to being a liar.

    Otherwise when it comes to lying Howard=Abbott but Abbott=>Howard. The student has surpassed the master.

  19. Mobius the minimum ice extent came two weeks early. Any ideas on that?

    Excuse my cherry picking, regional cooling has begun.

  20. I do look at the science el gordo, it seems you are the one who has trouble grasping it, maybe deliberately so as it doesn’t conform to what you erroneously believe.

    Your posting of a graph that was not the complete series and deliberately so illustrates that you have little understanding of the science. I’ve lost count of the times you have sourced something as you believe it supports your argument and it turns out it actually does the opposite. That graph is yet another example.

  21. Mobius I was sending the Denialati up, anyway here’s some science.

    “We have shown results indicating that wind‐induced, year‐to‐year differences in the rate of flow of ice toward and through Fram Strait play an important role in modulating September SIE on a year‐to‐year basis and that a trend toward an increased wind‐induced rate of flow has contributed to the decline in the areal coverage of Arctic summer sea ice.”

  22. The Arctic ice extent trend is still in decline and increasingly so, any ideas on that?

    Flora and fauna are increasingly moving into latitudes and areas they have never been before, any ideas on that?

    The oceans are acidifying directly linked to man made carbon. Any ideas on that?

    The trend is the globe is warming and the one theory that consistently explains that is AGW, any ideas on that?

    Any ideas on that the majority science on climatology is correct and the shams, and vested interest polluters that you like to follow are deliberately distorting the science as they are wrong and know it.

  23. Min @6.48pm, further proof that the Rodent is a lying toe rag.

    @6.58pm, I’m sorry, Min. It’s all untrue. Dingbats everywhere are saying we’ll be rooned, or we are rooned or we would have been rooned!

    I considered it was my patriotic duty to point out to those cloth eared twats, that if their hero had the negotiating skills of a bacterium, Liealot would be in power and we’d all be in very serious trouble on account of he is a talentless liar and as much use as a blowie at a BBQ. i

    I’m sure all the mouth breathers would have responded positively to my well argued and unbiased case.

  24. ME

    The Arctic ice decline trend is real, but it’s natural and has nothing to do with AGW.

    Around 6000 to 7000 years ago the Arctic was ice free in summer, so the flora and fauna migrated and returned later when conditions cooled.

    The ‘oceans acidifying’ is a beat up.

    ‘The trend is the globe is warming and the one theory that consistently explains that is AGW, any ideas on that?’

    Bit simplistic, I automatically thought it might have something to do with that big ball of fire.

    In regards to the ‘majority science’ view that CO2 is causing global warming, I think its time to back away from that position because as you know CO2 has continued to rise as temperatures have plateaued over the past decade.

    So nice to have this little chat.

  25. Mobius.
    I see those CSIRO scallywags at Cape Grim have measured in increase in CO2 of 1 part in 26,000 parts since they started measuring in the mid 1970s. Not 1 part a year. Obe part in about 35 years.
    Mobius, why is it they never measure the ice in the Arctics in winter? Hmmm I gues because its … bloody freezing?
    Going over some past ground, I see Tony is going to announce Australia’s Border protection Policy on monday …. Nauru.
    julia would be lying in bed this morning saying Tiiiim, how did Tony position himself to the Left of mueee and to the Roght of Bob. Did we underestimate him ……..again.

  26. Hi Min

    Congratulations to you for the fantastic job you are doing in maintaining “Cafe Whispers”. I am sure Miglo is very proud of you.

    Happy Birthday to Catching Up, hope you get lot’s of presents.


  27. Thanks Min, 70 sounds so very old.

    Poh, Mr. Abbott announcing a rehashed policy of Mr Howard’s. It will be a red letter day when he announces one of his own.

    Mr, Abbott was careful not to say “no” yesterday, Could he be having trouble finding weasel words not to say no.

    Poh, can you explain the difference between processing on Nauru and onshore.

    The only difference I can see it costs I believe up to ten times as much.

  28. Hi Min

    Conratulations to you for your magnificent effort in maintaining
    “Cafe Whispers”, I am sure Miglo is proud and pleased with you.

    Happy Birthday to Catching Up, I hope you get lots of presents.


  29. CU, just the sheer logistics of intercepting and transporting people thousands of kms to Nauru should be prohibitive and for what purpose. I am yet to learn from Abbott as to why it’s Nauru.

  30. Hi Min

    Congraulations for your fantastic work on “Cafe Whispers”, I am sure Miglo must be very pleased and proud of you.

    Happy Birthday Catching Up, I hope you get lots of presents.


  31. Hi Min

    Congratulations for your fantastic work on “Cafe Whispers”, I am sure Miglo must be very pleased and proud of you.

    Happy Birthday Catching Up, I hope you get lots of presents.


  32. LynHi Min

    Congratulations for your fantastic work on “Cafe Whispers”, I am sure Miglo must be very pleased and proud of you.

    Happy Birthday Catching Up, I hope you get lots of presents.


  33. Hi Lyn, profuse apologies..have been having this problem for a number of days now, but have to wait until the boss gets back. I found you languishing in spam 😦

    Thank you..and yes he is 😀

  34. You b*gger’re only as old as your old is yours, about to go through puberty are we. 😉 xx

    CU, that’s about as close as you will get from reb as a compliment…although he has been known to play music.

  35. Happy birthday, CU. May you blog for many birthdays to come.

    Poh, Liealot would possibly be to the left of Genghis Kahn, but without his morals and principles. Liealot has been wedged beautifully, proving once again he’s an abject failure:

    Failed to convince the Independents to support him.
    Failed to debate legislation.
    Failed to influence legislation.
    Failed to form any credible policies of his own.
    Failed to show that he has the faintest idea about how to cost a policy, or how to run a government.

    Average mark: F-

    BTW, lifting your game in the spelling stakes might make the rubbish you write more coherent; no more worthy of respect, but mostly able to be read. I recommend a Collins dictionary and a thesaurus.

    I am yet to learn from Abbott as to why it’s Nauru.

    Min, Liealot is living in a fantasy Rodent Empire, as are his supporters like Poh, Rasa and the other cheerleaders infesting the inter tubes.

    He is completely incapable of original thought, incapable of compromise, incapable of negotiating an outcome. Bullying and lying are his preferred and only tactics

    Because the PM gives his preferred tactics the finger, his only resort is to repeat Nauru like a mantra, in the hope that saying it ad nauseam will make it come true.

    Presumably, when he finally realises that’s not working, chooks will be sacrificed, entrails will be read and a lot of capering will occur.

  36. Liberal forced to foot bill in Abbott’s war on pairs

    Mr Ciobo, member for the Queensland seat of Moncrieff, and his Labor colleague Kelvin Thomson are on a 12-week secondment to the United Nations, but their trip will coincide with the vote on one of the most contentious issues to come before Parliament.

    The chief opposition whip, Warren Entsch, said Mr Ciobo, like all MPs, had ”an obligation to his constituency” to vote on the tax.


    Figures compiled by Mr Fitzgibbon’s office show the government has rejected only one out of 27 opposition requests for a pair while the opposition has rejected 60 of the government’s 185 requests.

    Nutjobs !

  37. The chief opposition whip, Warren Entsch, said Mr Ciobo, like all MPs, had ”an obligation to his constituency” to vote on the tax.

    The Liars Party’s sudden concern about MPs obligation’s to their constituents is quite remarkable. Apparently it doesn’t extend to things like negotiating amendments to legislation. Very choosy lot, aren’t they? Am i being too cynical?

    Pip @1.55pm, it’s outrageous! Picking on Vegemite, indeed! If it was Marmite or Promite, it would be understandable. An Australian forcibly deprived of their Vegemite is tantamount to a crime against humanity. I hope Mr Rudd takes this all the way to the Hague! We Vegemites will not be denied!!!!!!

  38. Happy birthday Cu.

    el gordo do you ever put any context to the graphs you post? And now a tiny url, what are you afraid of, that yet again you will find the website you used states the opposite?

  39. Aaaagggghhhhh! We’ve been infiltrated by diluted Australians!

    No wonder Migs’ health is suffering; a healthy diet of full strength Vegemite and Woodies Lemonade MUST be prescribed!! Mind you a spot of Kola Beer, Sno-Top and Creaming Soda is also advised. Hold the Big Sars, I don’t recommend fly tox as a health drink.

  40. Mobius, and even if global warming has ‘stopped’ why should we not do the best we can to make the planet a cleaner place. Heaven knows Mother Earth is a forgiving soul, but sometimes we do have to help….

  41. Deltoid 2008 (sorry, no vomit bag to hand)

    An opinion piece by Todd Albert … ‘but the overall warming from greenhouse gasses is inescapable’…

    Nonsense, pure supposition.

    This from Alden Griffith

    ‘Lastly, I want to make the prediction that global warming will once again “stop” in 2013. Even if temperatures continue to rise over the next 3 years…’

    I’ll come back with a counter prediction which promises to be more realistic.

  42. One for the boss..mind you he probably looks bloody awful around about now, t’was the 2nd bottle of red which done it.

  43. Mobius, a counter prediction by David Archibald, July 1, 2011.

    ‘As a scientist, I have a duty to warn you about what is happening to the Earth’s climate. What is happening is that the world has entered a sharp cooling phase.

    ‘Growing conditions will shrink three hundred kilometres towards the equator by the end of the decade. There will be a major reduction in agricultural productivity in the mid-latitudes. The Canadian wheat crop will be wiped out.’

  44. Oh you quote scammers and charletons along with posting graphs and data with no context and you go on about Deltoid. Please el gordo, they had your measure and you couldn’t hack debating the real science there with the crud you are now throwing up here.

    You will come back with what you find that you think promises to be more realistic. There I corrected you to something more realistic.

    Going on your past form, whether what you come back with is more realistic is not very likely, but you never know you might surprise us and source in context and with science that has validity.

  45. el gordo, can you please quote sources and give us context instead of just throwing in detached paragraphs and graphs from who knows where?

  46. You went on about vomit when stating Deltoid but David Archibald, please. A tergiversator who lines up with the rest of them from the Australian Climate Science Coalition, funded by the usual suspects with vested interests and proven to be wrong and deliberately misleading so often I think everyone has lost count.

  47. Min @3.48pm once again a bullseye. If global warming has stopped as el gordo claims, it still doesn’t absolve us from the responsibility of cleaning up after ourselves.

    It’s like saying we’ve cleared the weeds out of the National Parks, so nothing more needs to be done.

    However, there is no credible evidence that warming has,/strong> stopped or is just taking a breather, so we have to press forward to ensure the good health of our planet.

    We can’t hive off responsibility to 3rd world countries or cows. There isn’t anywhere else to live-this is it, so we’d better not keep trashing our home.

    ME, what really amazes me is the stupidity of the do nothing brigade. Anyone would think we’ve got heaps of alternative addresses to move to if things get too hot (no pun intended, but I’ll accept any pats on the back or cough mixture), judging by their cavalier attitude to the planet’s health.

    “Oh, but it’ll cost money,” they cry. “We might have to make sacrifices like not wasting resources.”

    God forbid we attempt to improve the production of power by using green energy, or sharpening up current power production so that less pollution occurs! We’re too special and anyway Anal, Dolt and the Liars Party reckon it’s OK to keep doing what we’re doing. Who cares about the future; it’s the present that counts.

    All of this spin is just about the Liars Party getting their hands on power; they don’t give a toss about the planet. I can only compare this attitude to someone who lives in a high fire risk area allowing piles of flammable material to bank up against their walls.

  48. ‘Can you please quote sources and give us context instead of just throwing in detached paragraphs and graphs from who knows where?’

    Yes sir.

  49. Happy Birthday, Catching up! Seventy’s the new fifty these days, so no wonder you don’t feel old! Judging by your posts you’ve got plenty of life in you yet! Keep on keeping on.

    By the way I’ ve noticed as I go through life, (and I’m a few years ahead of you!) that as a general rule positive thinkers like you live longer, healthier more productive lives. They have lots of friends and enjoy life.

    Mean minded, negative, and trouble making types who criticise all the time age more quickly, become doddery and even more disagreeable so that they end up without friends. They mostly die early but if they don’t might as well be dead,

    Yes? Yes!

  50. Well the excuses for governments in this country to not allow same sex marriages are evaporating.

    The UK under a very conservative government is on the verge of legalising same sex marriages.

    What’s your excuse now Gillard/Abbott?

  51. ME, this country is fast running out of excuses not to allow same sex marriage. With the UK is getting in on the act, it makes us look pretty reactionary.

    We won’t be rooned, Barnyard and Sloppy will still be able to hunt down husbands for their daughters. No marriage will be harmed in the making of this legislation.

    Let’s do it. It’s Time.

  52. Jane, it’s just a signature on a piece of paper. Why should it be so important. We all know the true meaning of a relationship and this is communication. For legal purposes it would be nice to be able to place the name of the one that we love on a piece of paper and know that they will have recognition and security. And that is it…it’s just a signature on a piece paper, a recognition of the other person in one’s life. Full stop, end of story.

  53. el gordo, that is correct, many are against PM Gillard’s refugee plans.

    Does that necessary make the PM wrong. Maybe the PM is looking at all sides and looking into the future as well.

    el gordo, Mr. Abbott appears to have a similar lack of support.

    The money appears to be for onshore processing.

    el gordo, that is what most of us would like to see happen.

    The problem is how do we discourage the boat trade.

    How do we give some relief for the tens of thousands in the region that have been waiting up to ten years in limbo.

    Do we ignore these people, leaving them no choice but to get on leaky boats.

  54. I cannot understand the outcry against same gender marriage.

    It will not affect most of our lives. Most will go no as they are now, considering marriage, if that is what they want.

    Many will continue to commit to each other, have children and live long life together, without formal marriage. Many others will feel the need to marry.

    There will be many jobs and businesses created, if we join the rest of the world and allow marriage between all those who desire it.

    The sky will not fall in.

  55. ‘Do we ignore these people, leaving them no choice but to get on leaky boats.’

    Those languishing in Malaysian camps are a huge problem and our intake should be increased.

    The boat people must be discouraged, yet those that make the dangerous journey deserve asylum.

    You already know about my Ord complex.

  56. ”Another boat, another policy failure”

    Julia has such a rich history of bipartisanship on this issue.

    She has every right to expect Abbott to simply fall into line with her preference to send children (and all those other asylum seekers) to Malaysia.

    She should wedge Abbott, and teach him a lesson (in the politics of human trading) even if t means neglecting Our international obligations.

  57. ToM, I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Let’s take it from the top shall we…WHY is sending people to Nauru superior to all other policies.

  58. …and just to save the regular contributors the trouble of responding –

    Adrian will search and replace “Julia” with “Abbott” and “she “ with “he”. This will be seen as an outstanding contribution.

    Pip and Sue will both say I’m a “troll”

    PWA will simply delete the comment because she disagrees

  59. Why should it be so important

    Buggered if I know, Min. As you say, it’s a piece of paper like a driver’s licence, if you will. I can’t understand all the fuss over a piece of paper. Come on Oz, let’s show how grown up we are. It won’t hurt a bit.

    el gordo, the asylum seeker situation is vexing to say the least. On one hand we need to do the right thing, but paying for passage on unsafe vessels to make it here, is so dangerous.

    Having said that, I think we underestimate the desperation of asylum seekers to get as far as they can from the dangerous situation in their country of origin. Quite probably hopping on a barely seaworthy vessel to find a safe haven is hardly a risk worth worrying about.

    We cannot know how terrifying life can be in places like Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan for instance. I don’t think anyone here has been unfortunate enough to experience such a constant level of fear on a daily basis. The appalling level of violence and slaughter in certain African states can hardly be imagined.

    I think this country has a reputation (deserved or not) for being a stable well governed uncrowded democracy. if I came from any of the countries the refugees flee, that would be what I would look for: somewhere my family would be safe, healthy, have access to a good education and a chance to prosper. And a risky boat trip wouldn’t worry me one bit.

    What the solution is, I don’t know, but I’m beginning to think perhaps a regional solution could work, properly administered.

    My heart is with onshore processing, but ultimately it may be a pipe dream.

  60. Jane, the problem with onshore processing is that all the boats will be ready to launch on the next tide. And that’s the truth of the matter.

    Onshore processing will not curtail the problem of people smuggling but neither with offshore processing.

    I’ll sit up and take notice when someone provides at least some idea of how to stop people not by punishing their cargo..but by stopping people smuggling in Indonesia. Because when push comes to shove that’s what it’s all about.

  61. Is that our little Tweety Bird Lyn?

    That can happen if there are lots of links in her post, which clearly isn’t the case, or if she has changed email address.

    I’ll get the chance to look at it later in the week. I arrive home Wednesday but after a few flights including the 15 hour flight to Sydney I will need a couple of days rest.

    It’s not fair. I leave here Monday and get home Wednesday. I need to fly the other way around the world next time to get my day back. 😀

  62. Thank you Migs. I’ll jot a note to Lyn by way of explanation..just to make sure that she knows that she’s most definitely wanted and appreciated!!

  63. ‘Mean minded, negative, and trouble making types who criticise all the time age more quickly, become doddery and even more disagreeable so that they end up without friends. They mostly die early but if they don’t might as well be dead,’

    Being a ‘trouble making type’ I spent the weekend looking for peer review to support the proposition that characters of my disposition ‘mostly die early’.

    But sadly only the good die young.

  64. Hi Miglo

    I am delighted to see you here this morning. Best wishes, we are all hoping you are feeling well and happy.

    Min has attended to the comments box problem with her usual
    splendid efficiency .

    I wasn’t at all worried about my comment, just thought maybe new readers were encountering the same problem, actually regular readers as well.

  65. Thank you Lyn. There do seem to be a few problems that require the attention of someone with far more technical expertise than myself (Min waves to Migs :D).

    I didn’t put this one through but perhaps Migs did. But if he didn’t then, then fingers crossed..the problem has resolved itself.


    Workers having insufficient funds to retire. Now let me see. When Howard was elected he immediately stopped the Superannuation Levy stone dead at 9% instead of the yearly increment of 1% for another 6 years to 15%. This at a time of massive profits and bonus increases for the CEO brigade.

    That difference would have resulted in a further 40% increase in balances for those with the levy only super over the last 14 years. And this excludes and interest, gains or payrises for the last 14 years.

    So many of those required to continue working have the Howard “Levy for everything government” to thank for their decision to support big business greed, over fairness and sufficient retirement funds for the workers.

  67. Further speculation about Rudd…

    Let’s get this right. Kevin Rudd saw off Malcolm Turnbull. Tony Abbott saw off Rudd and now looks as though he will do the same to Julia Gillard.

    The solution?

    Bring back Rudd to see off Abbott. Which has already raised the prospect of the Liberals bringing back Turnbull to see off Rudd.

    At this rate, we may as well go back to the beginning and make Brendan Nelson prime minister.

    Actually that’s not a bad idea..given the choice between Abbott and Nelson, then I would be voting for Nelson.

  68. Hello Migs, fancy seeing you pop up 🙂

    Well it seems to be!!! But as for the list that I have waiting for you when you get back… 😉

  69. Min

    You know that I have always manitained that the ALP crucified itself by dumping Kevin Rudd at the sight of one unpopular poll. It was wrong and it remains wrong.

    However to remove Julia now would only exacerbate those already bitter at his removal and serve the interests of Tony Abbott.

    I would be happy with Turnbull, Nelson, even Hockey over Abbott any day.

    Julia doesn’t need speech therapy or any other lessons. She was brilliant at being deputy PM. It is the liberal cheer squad who are whinging about her speech and how she sounds simply becuase they are trying to strike another nerve.

    Julia needs to do a Tony Abbott. Fly around the country and visit businesses that welcome a Carbon Fine. Visit the green energy companies that employ people now.

    Tell the media the truth and how it will save our planet for future generations and then simply run away when the questions become difficult. It is working well for Tony, so just do the same. I would.

  70. Shane, to me a lot of it was that the Rudd/Abbott combo left Rudd at a disadvantage, that while Rudd could ‘read’ Howard, Nelson and Turnbull he seemed to flounder when up against Abbott.

    Mind you by the time that Abbott came along, the MSM had already spent years dishing the dirt on Rudd and Abbott in lycra was a photo-op ready and waiting. Like lemmings the media scurried after him.

    A problem seems to be that while Julia does fly around the country not much of it makes it as far as our screens. Action Man Tony is exciting (well not to me, but you can see it from the media’s POV).

    I think that Gillard may have to resort to ‘stunts’ date there has been far too much gravitas and very little ‘fun’. We certainly know that she is capable of these from the elegant ballgown to slipping on her backside and giggling as she was helped up.

  71. Min

    I disgaree and do not think that Rudd was floundering against Abbott. Rudd was floundering due to the mutiny happening within the ALP itself. The media was against Rudd at the time and reporting anything negative, this resulted on the first poll to show the ALP was behind. It did not show that Abbott was more popular than Rudd as PM.

    While the Media may have been on the attack against the government the faceless hacks did the medias bidding rather than their PM and Party bidding by staying loyal to a popularly elected PM.

    I know the fact is we elect a party, but that is not the truth in most peoples, and also my own eyes.

    Stunts need to be used to counter stunts at the moment, as common sense, respect and even truthful debate have been thrown to the gutter by Tony Abbott.

  72. Shane, it’s probably wise in hindsight but it’s hard to imagine that the then very popular Gillard would subsequently become ‘unpopular’ against Tony Abbott of all people.

    I don’t mind losing in a fair fight and it’s true that people do tend to blame the umpie (the media in this case) when their team is losing. In the current situation the other team are being given all of the free kicks.

  73. Yes..the drover’s dog, as at least the drover’s dog would have policies, plus we wouldn’t have to keep looking at Tony in lycra.

  74. Hi Migs. It’ll be great to see the duck back on Elmer Fudd’s mantlepiece. Hope the holiday has been fabulous. As for losing a day, look on the bright side. Less stress on the wings. lol

    Actually that’s not a bad idea..given the choice between Abbott and Nelson, then I would be voting for Nelson.

    God yes, Min. At least you could be pretty well assured that Nelson has the best interests of the country at heart, not just ruthless political ambition for himself. Unfortunately for him, lacking that ruthless streak was his downfall. But he can be satisfied that he really is a genuine person.

    shane, I agree with you, but as Min says, by the time Liealot back stabbed his way to the leadership, the msm tide was turning against Rudd and like lemmings (thanks for that one, Min) they hot footed after the latest negativity novelty.

    They hadn’t encountered the like before. Even the Rodent had a (mostly) positive message, but Liealot is concentrated negativity and spite and it has proved irresistible to the msm, spurred on by the malevolent Emperor Rupert and his cohorts.

    And so began the concerted media campaign against Rudd and the ALP. I do feel that Rudd still had enough goodwill that he could probably have won government in his own right, but the NSW right, which has far too much power, imo, panicked which lead to the assassination plot.

    At no time do I think Gillard was the instigator nor a major player; I think she was possibly not even their first choice to tap Rudd on the shoulder. Be that as it may, she got lumbered and here we are.

    One of the most glaring inconsistencies in all of the backstabbing tosh is the msm’s utter refusal to acknowledge how much blood Liealot has on his hands.

    He actively partook in Turnbull’s assassination and was probably the first to plunge the dagger into his back, so why is he not reviled as a Machiavellian plotter dripping with his victim’s blood (exactly the same as his political father, as it happens).

    Why has Liealot’s history as a backstabbing bastard been sanitised? It’s never discussed in the public domain at all. When have the likes of Dolt or Anal asked him how it feels to have blood on his hands? The same goes for his compulsive lying.

    Gillard is accused of the GREAT BIG LIE, which is completely and provably untrue, yet Liealot’s constant lying is never remarked upon. Worse still, although the msm itself has published the proof of Gillard’s integrity and honesty, it still persists with the lie about the LIE.

    I really don’t think that the PM’s true warm and vibrant personality will be allowed to shine through to the country until the msm has been brought to its knees. We have all heard individual stories from people she has captivated with her warm, bubbly personality; we need the whole nation to experience it.

    In the current situation the other team are being given all of the free kicks.

    And being allowed to tackle too high, push in the back, trip and allowed to stay on the oval against the blood rule, Min.

  75. Jane, you’re right..Migs is flying, let’s hope that he doesn’t have a head wind..think of the stress on the wings.

  76. And again Jane, my understanding is that Gillard was advised that Rudd was going to be rolled and the choice was either she accept the leadership or that the government would be left in the untenable position that there would be a government but that nobody wanted the leadership. Clearly there was only one choice for Julia, accept.

    The evidence for the fact that Julia was not one of the plotters is the fact that Rudd subsequently accepted the position of Foreign Minister. Rudd said immediately that he was prepared to serve in a Gillard government.

    Common sense would dicatate that should Rudd have been knifed directly by Gillard that he would have gone to the back bench.

  77. Baillieu faces down his backbench — for now

    Only 10 months in power and already in trouble. At least the Labor state governments all had relatively good first terms which led to their long terms in power.

    The Liberal State governments on the other hand are all determined to be in power for as few terms as possible as they stuff up, break promises, implode and lie their way through. The only difference to Labor is the amount of negative media attention given to them, which is disproportionately lower and less in extent as compared to Labor’s time in office.

    And whilst we all universally condemned and criticised the NSW Labor government only one side, and that is muted, is condemning the same or greater failures of the State Liberal government, and it ain’t the right wing.

  78. Some comments this morning about Rudd’s difficulties against Abbott. I have to go along with the notion that there was a degree of panic at ALP HQ but I find it understandable that it happened; who could possibly have forseen the uncritical ride Abbott was given? I remember laughing at Abbott in his first interview as Leader with Kerry O’Brien, the first time I think the Great Big Tax line was aired. In between chuckles I thought “you’ll have to do better than that, Tony” but he didn’t. In a contest where the only rule seemed to be that Abbott was to be let off the hook, it’s inevitable that confusion sets in.

  79. Dingbats, read this and weep.

    Min @2.29pm, he may have to jettison extra weight or find himself a nice palm tree until he gets a tail wind. lol

    And @2.35pm. Yes Gillard was in an unenviable position, but I think she’s done splendidly since being frogmarched into Rudd’s office to deliver that Sussex St message. I like her a great deal and I’m fed up with the whining from a certain section of the left.

  80. Jane, clearly it’s a case of action rather than spin. I was reading the other day that the Gillard government’s 191 bills passed exceeds by about 30 the number of bills passed in the first 12 months of Howard’s reign.

  81. BSA Bob, I agree wholeheartedly. I’m thinking of the situation of interviews as an example – while the PM has strips torn off her, is rudely interupted and talked over, Abbott can sit there spouting the most utter and complete rubbish while the interviewer just sits there like a lump nodding wisely.

    Who can believe that a person such as Abbott with his attitudes can be so ‘popular’.

  82. OMG, News Ltd has written an ANTi Abbott article

    In tatters: Tony Abbott kills off Julia Gillard’s asylum dream plan

    “LABOR’S damaged Malaysian deal on asylum seekers has been killed off by Tony Abbott which means all future boat people are now likely to be processed on Australian soil”.

    Abbott’s plan

    ” has left open some serious legal and political questions.”

    “Labor believes Nauru is not a deterrent to people smugglers as many who make it there will be accepted into Australia.
    There was no chance of them getting Australian visas under the Malaysian plan.”

    “Further, the High Court ruling, which the Government hoped to counter with new laws, effectively said unaccompanied minors could not be taken off-shore.
    The Government amendments would have addressed this, but Mr Abbott’s do not, and immigration officials now fear people smugglers will load up boats with children who, if accepted as refugees, will be able to request their parents and siblings join them in Australia.
    The Opposition also wants to send boats back to Indonesia where possible once they are intercepted at sea.
    However, Indonesia has not signed the UN convention and under Mr Abbott’s amendments would be barred from accepting asylum seekers.”

    Read more:

  83. Isn’t it something that Gillard is such a great performer, especially in parliament, and Abbott is a turkey who thinks he’s an eagle. She has always had Abbott’s measure and walked all over him when she was in opposition and just keeps walking over him now. If it weren’t for an Abbott loving media that allow him to get away with being the worst performing opposition leader, no the worst performing leader, he would have been out on his ears ages ago. He should have been booted when in government as he stuffed every port folio he managed.

  84. Many have been saying that Abbott had wedged Gillard over this but methinks it’s the other way round. Notice how Morrison has gone to ground after initially jumping all over the High Court ruling as being absolutely disaster for the government.

    The way I see it the truth is that it’s Abbott who has no policy and has nowhere to go. Gillard can move to onshore processing and still seek a regional solution in the background, Abbott can’t go anywhere.

    The moment Abbott admits that legally he cannot put his policy into being and states that he must move to onshore processing is the moment he’s lost his core and his leadership.

  85. ‘Who can believe that a person such as Abbott with his attitudes can be so ‘popular’.

    It’s not so much that Yabbott is popular, more that Julia is very unpopular.

  86. el gordo, for once you have it correct. Being unpopular does not make one wrong.

    Being popular does not mean you are correct.

  87. You are correct CU, but Julia is politically incorrect on so many levels that I’ve come to the conclusion she is the wrong person to be PM.

    Mobius I have been following the debate on the missing ocean heat and have been looking for an unbiased article which clearly explains the argument from both sides. This is a reasonable start.

  88. BSA, Yabbott wasn’t let off the hook, Julia is a poor performer.

    Please tell me you didn’t write that with a straight keyboard.

    If Gillard had dared say that she would refuse pairing to the opposition without exception, what do you think the media reaction would have been? The sound of crickets (as for Liealot) or screaming headlines and enough confected outrage to fuel all the strokes in the universe for at least 10 years?

    If Julia Gillard had constantly stuck her head in front of the cameras in QT, while little Chrissy Whynne or Liealot were speaking, would there be a lack of interest by the press, or a frenzy of outrage that poor widdle Liealot’s sensibilities had been offended or that little Chrissy Whynne’s smelling salts weren’t strong enough to revive him?

    If the government had walked out of the chamber en masse just as Liealot was due to read his reply to the budget or some such, would the press ignore such flagrant bad manners, or screech like Sophie Mirabella at an all in wrestling match?

    Bloody hell, can you imagine the terror those wrestlers would feel to see that creature climb into the ring, dressed in lycra?

    If you can produce a shred of evidence to back up that ludicrous statement, I’m sure we’ll all be agog. Should we give you a few months?.

  89. Speaking of pairs, those great defenders of democracy, the Liars Party seems to have forgotten Craig Thomson exists. What a joke they are.

  90. Jane !!!

    Bloody hell, can you imagine the terror those wrestlers would feel to see that creature climb into the ring, dressed in lycra?

    What a horrible thought !!!

  91. I know, Pip. I think even the Russian Mafia would run away screaming for their mummies, if they clocked that! She certainly makes fishwives look aristocratic by comparison.

  92. PM’s Abbott solution falters as Julia Gillard rises in Newspoll

    According to the latest Newspoll survey, taken exclusively for The Australian last weekend, voter satisfaction with Ms Gillard jumped from 23 per cent to 27 per cent and dissatisfaction fell seven percentage points from 68 per cent to 61 per cent.

    As the Coalition stridently opposed the Malaysia Solution, Mr Abbott’s personal approval fell five percentage points to 34 per cent
    and his disapproval rating climbed from 52 per cent to 54 per

    Those numbers just won’t do…. Newspoll will have to rephrase and reposition the questions next time .

  93. Interesting debate after QT. No matters of public importance.

    It was the debate on Budget Office. The Opposition did everything they could to destroy it.

    According to Mr. Robb, they lost the last election because of the action of Treasury claiming there was a black hole. Funny, that bill was one introduced by Mr. Costello.

    It appears that they do not trust the Treasury and unless their amendments are adopted, they will be ignoring the process.

    It was introduced by Mr. Costello to catch Labor. They forgot they could be voted out. Just as the near sighted action on the refugee bill, they forget they will need the legalization in the future.

  94. CU, the Liars party have an attention span that make gnats look like potential MENSA members. Therein lies a problem for the Liars Party, you have to have a very good memory to be a good liar. That’s why they have had to content themselves with three word slogans. Remembering more than three words in a row is too hard.

  95. Cu, I listened to the debate after QT, and couldn’t help but think that the Coalition still haven’t recovered from the fact that those darned Independents didn’t hand them government.

    I thought Rob Oakeshott spoke well and made sense

    Hockey and Robb sound bitter and angry, and nonsensical, and the younger ones, Jamie Briggs, Josh Frydenberg and Kelli O’Dwyer are very full of their own importance unfortunately, parroting tired old
    Liberal lines.

    The irony of the distrust of Treasury is that no-one was sacked when Kevin Rudd became PM, and they completely ignore the Godwin Grech story.

  96. The oddest thing about Joe Hockey’s highpitched rant after QT
    is that the ethics investigation over his “costings” dodge last year is still underway.

    Mr Hockey also confirmed he would bypass the new costings process in the election having his policies costed instead by the private sector rather the new Parliamentary Budget Office.

    Asked whether the government would say he was “running away” because his costings had holes in them, he said they would say that in any event.

    “It doesn’t matter what we do, we can stand on our heads in Martin Place and have the world’s leading auditors and accountants
    there, and I’m sure the Government would make that claim, but we will put them down on the table for the Australian people to see.”

    The accountants who Mr Hockey said audited the Coalition’s policies during the 2010 campaign remain the subject of an ethics investigation by the Institute of Chartered Accountants.

  97. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister has other work to do; while the Coalition is still fuming about their loss, the government is ‘moving forward’ 🙄

    PM flags business tax changes

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard has flagged changes to the business tax system during a speech to a business group.

    Ms Gillard told the Australian Industry Group (Ai Group) annual national dinner in Canberra on Monday that she wanted the government-hosted tax forum to be held in October to consider how to make business tax more flexible.

    She said this would carry on work the government began in its 2010/11 budget when it made changes to the treatment of tax losses incurredon investments in infrastructure projects.

    This was a model for further reforms to enhance flexibility, the prime minister said.


    In her speech, Ms Gillard also foreshadowed an announcement later this week of further new measures to underpin growth and quality in the tertiary education sector.

  98. Pip, don’t you just love this PM? The Liars Party, still coughing and spluttering after THE WEDGE, is left in the wake of the PM who has sprinted away at record speed to attend to further legislation.

    No wonder the Liars Party are sounding even more whiny, bitter and twisted when you consider the break neck pace set by the PM and the government.

    All they’ve got is “NO”, which even the msm will be hard put to keep spinning positively as the government powers ahead with its legislative program.

    More dust and just the sight of the shapely ankles of the PM as she lifts the pace. GO JULIA!!!!!!

  99. Jane, absolutely. GO JULIA!!! Now we wouldn’t want this blog to be ‘unbalanced’ so for the Abbott apologists I’ll play something suitably doom and gloom, but for the moment…here’s one for Julia.

  100. Wedging = good policy for asylum seekers

    Wedging always bad politics, but Abbott refused to negotiate and as was pointed out on Q&A the whole asylum seeker debate has been turned poisonousness in that it is political suicide for any party to advocate humaneness and onshore processing to asylum seekers. The right wing media and shock jocks go ape shit whipping up a racist frenzy of us being overrun and destroyed and the politicians go along.

    If it takes a wedge to change that around and force onshore processing then that’s what it takes.

    Or just continue the beat up and sending asylum seekers to out of the way places for years at a time.

  101. Right, let’s blame –
    • The High Court
    • Abbott
    • Asylum seekers
    • Unaccompanied minors

    For this intellect and human decency free zone of government action.

    But don’t mention the – ”another boat, another policy failure” version of bipartisanship.

    As everyone here agrees, the side benefit of all this is that Abbott is wedged!! Congratulations, there is some consolation for us all!

  102. ME, spot on. Liealot had every chance to sit down and have a fair dinkum go at thrashing out a solution to this vexed question. His response? The usual arrogant, ill informed NO-I sometimes wonder if it’s the only word he knows.

    Of course, the crux of the matter is that he thinks he’s running the show and women must defer to him. Plain old chauvinism.

    I’ll bet that’s why the PM incenses Anal and Dolt, too. A pair of particularly vile chauvinists and slimy old white male racists

    God knows what paroxisms of invective a black female PM would provoke in them. Too ugly to contemplate.

    ToM, nobody on this site has blamed the High Court, or asylum seekers or unaccompanied minors for the difficulties in resolving the issue. As usual, when you have a choice between the truth or blabbering Liars Party bullshit, you choose the latter.

    And don’t try playing the intellect and human decency card, you’re as credible as your hero Liealot.

    If you are prepared to have a reasoned discussion on the issues, I have no doubt you’ll get takers, but as usual all you do is trot out Liars Party talking points and trash talk the government.

    If you made any attempt to present balanced,unbiased, honest, well researched arguments instead of mouthing Dolt’s or Anal’s propaganda, you’d get some respect.

    So save your confected outrage and lies for cheerleader central, they swallow all that crap whole!

  103. Jane, I need to call you up on this one. You stated:

    ” A pair of particularly vile chauvinists and slimy old white male racist……”

    You have left out the last descriptor… should it be a word starting with P or C or, any descriptor that you might like, any all is equally acceptable to the Café.

  104. (ToM, speaking of intellect and decency free zones, why are you still deploying kettle logic and false dichotomies to not-wedge those you are not-trolling? More, why must your agenda-setting revolve around setting the parameters of zero-sum games, blame culture and its daily nominals, lets-you-and-him-fight-rackets, yes-buts, etc?)

  105. OMG, quick bring the smelling salts, I am certain that Jane will keel over in apoplexy at the sheer thought of being called a troll.

    On the other hand, we do seem to have some here who cannot cope with (gasp) being called a troll.

    Double dare you reb/ToM want to provide a descriptor for me…or would you rather play music…

  106. Min, I’m getting into the swing of the terminology used here. Troll is used in place of answering a point, and applied to an alternative opinion.

    Sue and Pip are outstanding exponents of this. They don’t make much sense at all, but they are good at repeating “troll”.

    Your editor, Patricia, is great at accommodating everyone

  107. ‘The right wing media and shock jocks go ape shit whipping up a racist frenzy of us being overrun and destroyed and the politicians go along.’

    We of the left expected Julia to do the right thing by asylum seekers but the shock jocks frightened her. She’s only a celebrity queen without substance and has done her party no favors.

  108. Min @5.26pm, I will bow to you to choose the best descriptor. If I choose one, it might offend poor ToM’s delicate feelings.

    ToM, I haven’t attributed anything to you that you haven’t said. You constantly choose Liars Party bullshit over the truth. If you don’t like it, prove me wrong by backing up what you say with facts, instead of childish name calling.

    The cheer club here really, really dislikes having their own words quoted back to them, in establishing their shameful attitudes.

    There you go again; unvarnished bullshit, couched in a snide spiteful wrapper. Your unquestioning support for the Liars Party certainly establishes your shameful attitudes and propensity for bullying, all hallmarks of cheerleaders.

  109. Abbott has been done the double wedgie, do you want me to run it by you again. What the heck, I may as well.

    We have TWO High Court rulings the first of which states that no one seeking asylum shall be denied access to a court of appeal.

    Second one, we have the one which is precious to my soul is that the Minister as the legal guardian of unaccompanied minors shall not do anything which is to that child’s detriment. The 2nd High Court ruling has basically ruled out any offshore processing.

    And yet we still have Abbott bleating about ‘turning he boats around’…get over it, it’s unlawful.

  110. No Jane, you seem to be upset because you applauded the race to the bottom, the “double wedge”, and I pointed this out to you.

    Your contribution highlighted the cheer club attitude at its worst.

    You’re capable of better than that type of nonsense, particularly on this type of issue.

  111. ToM, speaking of obscure arcane statements, do you have any idea what you’re dribbling on about in your comment @5.51pm? if you do, please enlighten us. I, for one, am agog to know

    BTW, if you had any points, I’m sure someone would have answered them. Oh that’s right they’re the same old Liars Party gibberish.

    @6.06pm with that confused and confusing definition, you fit the T word to a tee.

  112. Jane, you contribution here has included –
    “I think we can be forgiven some gloating at Liealot’s wedging”
    “Gillard has pulled off the double wedge.”
    “It makes good political sense to wedge your opponent.”

    Hardly examples of humanitarianism. Applauding the use of this issue in a race to the bottom, isn’t exactly a contribution to better policy.

    But I think you enjoy your commentary, you just don’t like being reminded of it.

  113. Hardly examples of humanitarianism. Applauding the use of this issue in a race to the bottom, isn’t exactly a contribution to better policy.

    Neither is vomiting Liars Party talking points all over the blogosphere, but that’s what you do. When you’ve got something better to do than clutter up the Café with Liars Party lies, I may bother talking to you again.

    Until that time, enjoy trawling around the cesspit known as the Liars party. It must be time for Crapaganda Camp.

  114. “We of the left expected Julia to do the right thing by asylum seekers but the shock jocks frightened her. She’s only a celebrity queen without substance and has done her party no favors.”

    el gordo, you are kidding?

    Celebrity queen. How?

    el gordo, look the other way fro one that loves to hog the lime light.

    el gordo, do you ever watch parliament?

  115. How about that…go Swannneeee… 😀

    THE Treasurer, Wayne Swan, has been named the world’s best finance minister for his work in steering Australia through the global financial crisis.

    Last night, Mr Swan was named as the Euromoney Finance Minister of the Year for 2011 and will receive his award at a ceremony in Washington on Sunday at a meeting of the International Monetary Fund.

    It is only the second time in the award’s 30-year history that an Australian has won. The first was Paul Keating in 1984, earning him the title ”the world’s greatest treasurer”.

  116. Min @5.45

    News had this quote in the announcement of Swan getting named world’s best finance minister
    “a prize that eluded Peter Costello for years”

    Funny that I suppose it has something to do with looking after a country during a world crisis versus a country experiencing a boon period.

  117. Sue, and maybe Costello was never named the World’s Best Finance Minister..umm, maybe it’s just because he never was.

  118. Further to Swan being named World’s Best Finance Minister, with Keating being the only other Australian to be awarded that title even though Costello nominated himself for it, there’s this:

    Why John Howard never made the cover of Euromoney

    Pay particular attention to this snippet:

    Those 30-year bans on Howard’s time as treasurer will soon be up. We look forward to reading the cabinet papers. In the meantime, all we have to work on are the figures in the Reserve Bank Bulletin.

    They show that John Howard is the only treasurer in Australia’s history who’s been able to engineer – simultaneously – double-digit inflation (December 1981 to June 1983), double-digit levels of unemployment (April to October 1983) and double-digit interest rates (November 1980 to October 1983).

    In the June quarter of 1983, inflation was 11.1%, the unemployment rate was 10.2% and the official cash rate averaged 12.08%.

    The election in March 1983 meant that Labor presided over this economic misery, even though they obviously had not created these outcomes.

    Read the rest of the wreck Howard as Treasurer left, and it turns out it was his fault and not Fraser’s as Howard has averred.

    The lifting of the 30 year ban on the papers as Howard’s time as Treasurer are going to be a treasure trove for those of us who have been saying for a long time now that Howard was a terrible Treasurer, and more than that, a terrible politician, which he continued on when he became PM.

  119. ME
    another record for Howard, love it, rates next to losing his seat. Now that he has had to take out a few lying paragraphs in his book (thanks to Menzies daughter), he now has room to add these records.

    so cruel, do you think he will read about Swan and feel good thoughts.

  120. This is from the link to the Sydney Morning Herald, “He said the government had created 750,000 new jobs in the past four years while during the same period, 30 million jobs had been shed globally.” Aren’t facts great things they sure beat accusations without providing anything as proof.

  121. Watch the RWDBs go into a frenzy over this news on Swan.

    This is yet another indication of the government just getting on with it, as they did under Rudd, whilst all around are howls and cries of doom and gloom, disaster and failure and incompetence and bad government with a constant stream of negativity coming from the biggest negabore we have seen, Abbott.

    Abbott has nothing else but his NO policy of negativity. He and his party can’t get close to matching the government on policy and competence so resort to base vacuous attacks.

  122. ME
    it has already started on ‘AM’, Swan was asked
    Will you acknowledge Rudd,,,,,,,,, But you dumped Rudd
    Keating did real reform, didn’t you rely on Costello’s surplus…blah blah

    As usual, Swan handled the negativity well.

  123. So Sue they now admit Rudd did well with the stimulus, that was not what there headlines and stories were saying at the time, along with Swan being constantly attacked as a supposed dufus with the opposition attempting gotchas that most got themselves.

    And let’s not forget that this opposition as an Abbott appointee seriously put up Barnaby Joyce for the finance portfolio.

  124. Jane – “WAAAAH!”

    Jane spits the dummy because I’ve quoted her actual words about using unaccompanied minors etc to “double wedge”.

    But Jane, Pip and Sue (or Adrian for that matter) can never show specific quotes that justify their continual verballing.

  125. Some times if you are Australia’s PM you just cannot win, especially the way things are reported in News Ltd.

    “PRIME Minister was angered when asked questions about the At Home With Julia sex scene.

    Ms Gillard told Today she had better things to worry about than tonight’s broadcast of the panned comedy – which depicts the PM having sex with partner Tim Mathieson under the Australian flag”

    Read more:

    So because the PM is actually working, Parliament is sitting, and she may have a few things to do than watch a TV program, the opinion of this article is “PM angered”

  126. Oh by the way when questioned by ABC, Melbourne, on the show she told Faine she wasn’t giving him a cross promotion quote.
    Didn’t sound angry, but gee.

  127. Yes, ME, for almost a year, Barnaby Joyce was the Shadow Finance Minister! He was such a help to the ALP! Thanks for reminding me!

    Lefties all we once rejoiced!
    When they had Barnaby
    Out and about with charts to show
    How one and one made three.
    Queensland had given such a gift,
    A talent rich and rare.
    No need to rage, at every stage
    Their Barnaby was there!
    As Tony strained to make some gains
    His Barnaby was there!

    What a pity he went to Water in the bush!

  128. Another $4Billion added to Hockey’s hole

    “…don’t know how many submarines they want and are committed to spending $4billion on unsuitable surveillance drones with no questions asked.

    Opposition Defence spokesman Senator David Johnston has committed a future Abbott government to buying 15 Global Hawks to patrol the north-west approaches to the continent. Australian Strategic Policy Institute analyst Andrew Davies said the unmanned planes were not available in a suitable configuration for long range maritime surveillance.”

  129. Sorry, Min, can you edit up my ‘bold’ to finish appropriately?

    By the way a propos your wondering earlier on this thread about Sky news acknowledging Swan’s gong. They were very fair and it seems one of the first official MSM to report it.according to Lyn’s Links

    Swan named Finance Minister of Year, Video, Sky News
    Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan is about to become the second Australian MP in 29 years to be named Euromoney
    magazine’s Finance Minister of the Year.…/article.aspx

    Nasty Joe Hockey’s disparaging remarks do get a mention at the very end of that report.

  130. Obviously a lot of mean minded Coaltion supporters are out there ready to think differently, Min. Surprise, surprise.

    For once I have followed up a request to vote in a newspaper straw poll. Other CW regulars might like to do the same in response to a Poll Bludger’s blogger plea..

    Posted Wednesday, September 21, 2011 at 9:47 am | Permalink
    Please vote as often as you can on this Poll


  131. The RQ-4 Global Hawk is a brilliant aircraft.

    The US Navy has evaluated a maritime version so I think Andrew Davies is wrong in this case.

    The United States Navy took delivery of two of the Block 10 aircraft to be used to evaluate maritime surveillance capabilities, designated N-1 (BuNo 166509) and N-2 (BuNo 166510).[14] The initial example was tested in a naval configuration at Edwards Air Force Base for several months, later ferrying to NAS Patuxent River on March 28, 2006 to begin the Global Hawk Maritime Demonstration (GHMD) program. Navy squadron VX-20 was tasked with operating the GHMD system.[15][16]

    The GHMD aircraft flew in the Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) exercise for the first time in July 2006. Although RIMPAC operations were in the vicinity of Hawaii, the aircraft was operated from Edwards, requiring flights of approximately 2,500 miles (4,000 km) each way to the operations area. Four flights were performed, resulting in over 24 hours of persistent maritime surveillance coordinated with USS Abraham Lincoln and USS Bonhomme Richard. As a part of the demonstration program, Global Hawk was tasked with maintenance of maritime situational awareness, contact tracking, and imagery support of various exercise operations. The imagery obtained by Global Hawk was transmitted to NAS Patuxent River for processing before being forwarded on to the fleet operations off Hawaii, thus exercising the global nature of this aircraft’s operations.[17]

    Northrop Grumman entered a version of the RQ-4B in the US Navy’s Broad Area Maritime Surveillance (BAMS) UAV contract competition. On 22 April 2008 the announcement was made that the Northrop Grumman RQ-4N had won the bid, with the Navy awarding a contract worth $1.16 billion.[18] In September 2010, the RQ-4N was officially designated the MQ-4C.[

  132. Mobius, not that I know of. He’s been on the patrol boats out of Cairns for the past few years and on the good old Too Broke before then. That certainly brings to mind all the moral support you provided when he was deployed to the Gulf..don’t know how I would have managed without you. Kept me steady, and that’s for certain.

  133. Patricia..kidding. Isn’t that awful..Does Wayne Swan deserve the title of ‘Finance Minister of the Year’? Just about zero generosity of spirit happening at all.

  134. Now who was it that posted Bolt’s very early ratings in an effort to infer he was successful and in so doing posted another fail?

    The Bolt Report’s 10am broadcast; 86,000 was the lowest so far since the program started in May. The repeat at 4.30pm nearly doubled the morning audience. The Bolt Report/Meet The Press combination are back to the level of the canned Video Hits that Ten was showing previously in this slot.

    I really don’t know for how much longer Ten can keep showing this turkey of a show. If it was only dragging down Meet The Press it might be just viable as a propaganda tool but the repeat is severely dragging down Ten News and causing it dire low ratings. TV News is the reputation of a channel and Bolt is destroying Ten’s reputation as a reputable news provider.

  135. Mobius, as a non-television day they’ll have subtext for the hearing impaired, but that’s another story. So, Bolt is being propped up by having him connected to Meet The Press. So therefore it couldn’t be trusted even at the best of times that the Blot could draw ratings on his own merit.

    I should imagine that Bolt has a contract..but whether Gina is prepared to throw more money away on a useless project is yet to be determined. I suspect that Bolt will not run a second season.

  136. ME

    Ten will keep showing Bolt as it will be a business expense writeoff for Gina Rineharts investment I would presume and to keep their new found far right investors.

    But thank you very much for the numbers update as I was interested to see how the show was fairing since your last report.

    Just like the supposed loss making newspapers of the Murdoch Empire in this country.

  137. I don’t know Shane. Maybe if they shifted the repeat time slot I’d go along with that but it’s killing Ten News which for any station is their regular prime time advertising slot. It’s now being reported that Ten are dropping their Late News and Sports Tonight, so I don’t know how much more of a hit Ten can take just to appease some wealthy backers, and even those wealthy backers haven’t got deep enough pockets to keep a TV station running at an increasing loss.

  138. Shane, which is why Dick Smith especially and Terese Rein and hubby Rudd have been promoting philanthropy. If one wants to throw one’s money away on an ego trip, then at least make it a worthwhile cause. Philanthropy is of course also an ego trip, the red carpet the jetsetter set..but at least the money is going to something worthwhile.

  139. ME

    I would have thought that Ten would have sat back and looked at the reasons for the 7pm project success. Light Hearted reporting of the news, allows calm and humourous debate of issues, has a blend of opinions and isn’t spiteful.

    To have Bolt before the news is a true killer for the majority.

    The wealthy backers really wont care if Ten dies. A tax writeoff for a number of years might be just what they were looking for in the first place.

  140. How is this for a story, the Coalition offends Malaysia but it is Labor’s fault
    THE federal opposition has contacted senior Malaysian officials to address growing concerns in Kuala Lumpur over Tony Abbott’s portrayal of the nation during the offshore processing debate
    It is understood Malaysia is deeply offended at the Opposition Leader’s depiction of the country, believing he had portrayed it as a “repressive regime practising an extreme version of Shariah law” with respect to its treatment of refugees.
    Ms Bishop said she was concerned Labor had “dragged” Malaysia into the debate

  141. Dejavu all over again. Recalcitrance anyone?

    As usual the arrogance and stupidity of the opposition leads the gigantic brained Bronnie Bishop and the rest of the Liars party to assume that them darkies in Malaysia are too dumb to know who said what about whom and who dragged whom where.

    I trust the PM has made her own phone call and laid the blame squarely on the responsible party’s shoulders.

    And of course Liealot is obviously too pig ignorant to know the msm won’t be papering over his cracks in Malaysia.

    What a weak pri*k! Julia made me do it? yeah that’ll work.

  142. A couple of points regarding below – yes AWAs are political poisonous – anyone believe that in spite of Abbott’s current statements that he won’t bring these back should the Liberals win the next election.

    And as far as “too inflexible and hamper productivity”, what they really mean of course is that they cannot exploit workers to their fullest capacity.

    AWA’s are politically poisonous and Mr Abbott is reluctant to advocate the pre-WorkChoices AWAs because they are conflated with the WorkChoices version.

    Instead, his policy is to modify the individual flexibility agreements in Labor’s Fair Work Act. Business complains these are too inflexible and hamper productivity.

  143. A COALITION senator (Scullion) says he witnessed a phone call three nights ago during which Kevin Rudd told a Labor senator he was nine votes shy of taking the leadership from Julia Gillard.

    But on the other hand…

    Senator Crossin said Senator Scullion walked into her office and ”rudely walked up to me while I was on the phone” and that the leadership was never discussed.

  144. Ah yes, the party of truth and honesty. Like Crossin would have discussed anything like that in front of a Liars party drone. Unless……..

  145. From Mike Carlton..a lot in it but here are some snippets.

    Just the other day I found myself listening to Ray Hadley, the famous football and current affairs commentator, explaining to his radio audience how the government’s evil carbon tax would ruin us all….

    Yet something odd is happening. Just last week, la Rinehart picked up a cool $1.26 billion by flogging off one of her private companies, Hancock Coal, to an Indian conglomerate, GVK. Not bad for a day’s work. GVK announced it would invest another $6 billion to develop Hancock mines in Queensland, and the infrastructure that goes with them….

    You can only assume these Indians – simple peasant folk, probably – have never heard of Mad Julia’s carbon tax. Obviously, they have been right royally duped. Ray and Tony should do the decent thing and let them know they’ve made a frightful mistake.

    ps Carn the Pies 🙂

  146. Min
    To counter that story the Australian is running with a “UKRAINIAN mining billionaire Gennadiy Bogolyubov says the threat of the carbon and mining taxes has turned him off Australia.” The Australian must have thought the Indian purchases and investment insignificant.

  147. ‘The Broncos were knocked. TB will be grumpy. Again.’

    The last I saw of TB he came down to gutter trash headquarters and swore loudly in the direction of ToM and then said ooops wrong thread.

    Its one of life’s little mysteries, but I have an inkling of why he’s cleared off.

  148. Sue, was thinking the exact same thing. The headline reads: Billionaire shuns Australia


    The ultra-orthodox Jew was relaxed as he toured his mine, inspecting a new workshop and being briefed on productivity improvements at the open pit operation.

    Bogolyubov says he has ploughed plenty of money into the mine since buying it.


    In his first interview in Australia, he warns the Gillard government that investment in the resources sector is being held back by difficulties in accessing the railways and ports needed to export commodities, and that the nation’s reputation for suitability is being damaged by the planned mining and carbon taxes.

    And finally voilà the truth of the matter…

    “You cannot find natural resources and think you have a business — you must first have a port allocation.

    “You can find a billion tonnes of iron ore in the desert but you can’t do anything with it. You have to go to BHP or Fortescue (to enable rail and port access). That is why for us, as a foreign investor, it is difficult.”

    Now me being just a smidgey bit suspicious as far as the OO is concerned note how one statement is reported and the other is a direct quote.

  149. El gordo, swearing loudly in the direction of ToM is commendable. TB is to be congratulated.

    I just ate a mini pie. I had to do it. I hadn’t seen a pie for over a month. I saw something resembling a pie at Starbucks on the Chinese border that contained ‘meat’. Dog meat, perhaps?

  150. They aren’t very big on pies overseas and closer to home I know ‘toilet’ doesn’t like them, but he’s from south Oz.

  151. It’s certainly a strong contingency here from the South Australians..just lucky that they don’t play footy as well as they debate. 😉

  152. el gordo. that’s because SA has the only decent pies, pasties and sausage rolls. T/boss cannot be a genuine South Aussie because of the two reasons mentioned above by Migs.

    Migs, do you think he could be a….Mexican?

  153. Min, might I suggest that Collingwood drop all their South Aussie players? Let’s see how they go then. 😛

    Yes, Jane, despite living down ‘our’ way I think Toiletboss is a closet Mexican.

  154. Jane, a Carlton supporter was mocking me yesterday, sarcastically asking how Port went this year. I replied: “The same as Carlton. We’re both finished for the year but we have a better draft pick”. Wow, did that shut him up.

  155. As I suspected, Migs @1.15pm. We need a crucifix!! lol

    I know just what you mean about how we went. I’ve had the same shit thrown at me and it’s amazing how fast that shuts them up. No cup, no matter where they came on the ladder.

    Also, most of the mockers are still to win a cup,

  156. Never mind, Migs. We’ve got enough love for the team. Diehards forever. WE WILL RISE AGAIN and cause a world of pain for the mockers, who will be forced to spend a weekend with Sophie Mirabella as punishment.*

    Ltd News, the gift that keeps on giving. Yet another scandal. With the scandal starting to envelop the Emperor’s US domain, too it can only be a matter of time before the cracks get bigger here and unable to be papered over. Won’t that be sad?

    *Even I couldn’t inflict more than a weekend on anyone, unless it’s Liealot.

  157. Carbon tax scare campaign not working: union September 28, 2011

    Speaking to the federal parliamentary inquiry on Clean Energy Bills in Sydney today, Mr Maher said the union members he speaks to back the tax.

    “We think they’re plainly wrong as the industry is booming and when you compare what they say in their annual reports to shareholders with what they say in the scare campaign both cannot be true,” he said.

    “What our members tell me at meetings is that they can afford some cost increase but they want the pensioners in the community and people that work at the council on low incomes to be fully compensated …

    “I actually get very proud of members when they tell me that and that’s the only reaction I’ve ever had.”

    Mr Maher also said a poll on the union website about the carbon tax was pulled down because it was “rorted by Coalition staffers who have nothing else to do”.

    “Coalition staffers” and the kids from Menzies House !

  158. Companies support carbon tax

    <i.Westpac told the inquiry it supported the need for a carbon tax as a "required economic reform".

    Emma Herd, the bank's director of emissions and environment, said business was already managing carbon risk with investment and lending decisions.

    Read more:

  159. Poker machine reforms won’t work? Don’t bet on it

    For starters, Clubs Australia continues to wilfully misrepresent the proposed poker machine reforms. They insist that every poker machine player will need to register for a licence; this is not true. The proposed reforms state that poker machines that are downgraded to a $1 maximum bet will NOT require pre-commitment, and the fact is that 88 per cent of Australia’s 5 million pokie gamblers play $1 or less per spin. It is also a fact that the software changes required to cap maximum bets at $1 are cheaper and simpler than installing pre-commitment technology, and so it stands to reason that the majority
    of venues would take up this option. Victoria recently legislated a drop in the maximum bet on poker machines from $10 to $5, with little or no fuss or reaction from the industry… so this is not a new

    The author has first-hand experience of pokie addiction:-

    I discovered poker machines in my mid-20s. I had a good job at the time, a couple of years out of university and life appeared wonderful. I wasn’t a gambler; bets on the Melbourne Cup and a weekly lottery ticket were the extent of my betting prowess.

    But something clicked inside my head the very first time I played the pokies. It was the start of years of addiction, years in which I pissed away close to $100,000 and destroyed the trust of everyone I knew. I was a poker machine addict, and no matter my intentions, I simply could not stop playing. Suicide became an option I seriously contemplated, and it took discovery, exposure and the loss of everything I had to finally force my hand and give me the ability to step away.


    Indeed, the neuro tranmitters relating to heroin are the same neuro tranmitters that hook pokies addict !

  160. Companies Use Immigration Crackdown to Turn a Profit

    The men showed up in a small town in Australia’s outback early last year, offering top dollar for all available lodgings. Within days, their company, Serco, was flying in recruits from as far away as London, and busing them from trailers to work 12-hour shifts as guards in a remote camp where immigrants seeking asylum are indefinitely detained.

    It was just a small part of a pattern on three continents where a handful of multinational security companies have been turning crackdowns on immigration into a growing global industry.

    Especially in Britain, the United States and Australia, governments of different stripes have increasingly looked to such companies to expand detention and show voters they are enforcing tougher immigration laws.

  161. Who do you have to sleep with to get a drink around this place? 😆
    I’m, finished work for the week & start 3 weeks’ leave now – I’ll have a Kilkenny to start please barkeep 🙂

  162. I do not know why the Labor government is to afraid to what is becoming an inefficient GST on the table at next week’s tax summit.

    Surely it is time for a ongoing assessment of the GST.

    Is it the saviour that Mr. Costello and Mr. Howard promised. Is it a tax that is more complex and easier to avoid than the wholesale tax it replaced. Has it wiped out the underground economy as promised. If so, why can I still get a cheaper price by paying tradesmaen cash?

    “…..Swan should be the adult and ask the states whether they want the GST restored to its first principle as a growth tax.

    Posing this question may trigger another shower of slogans from Tony Abbott. But does Swan seriously think Labor has anything to lose from pointing out the inadequacies of the Coalition’s GST? Who knows, the states may want to broaden the base, or increase the rate, or both, thereby forcing the Opposition Leader to confront the unreality of his position that the budget can be balanced only with spending cuts in the teeth of what may be a double-dip global recession.

    Buried in the Henry review last year was a warning that the GST was fast approaching its use-by date: “It is an operationally complex tax, designed on tax invoice concepts more suited to the documentary standard of the 1960s than the digital potential of the 21st century.”

    More explicit was the advice in this year’s budget that the GST is losing ground because the items not in the base – food, rent, health and education – have experienced faster price rises than the goods and services that are taxed. As these are largely non-tradeable, they are unlikely to have benefited from factors such as a stronger Australian dollar, Treasury said in statement five of budget paper No 1. To the layman, this means the GST is slipping into the same void as the wholesale sales tax it replaced a decade ago, a tax not fit for modern Australia.

    It is easy for politicians to let the polls do their thinking for them by leaving the GST in the bottom of the too-hard basket. But a quick check of those same polls would remind federal and state leaders that one of the things that most irritates voters is poor service delivery……..”

    “………….Swan doesn’t have to build on the GST. But he can’t avoid a debate on the implications of the hole it is burning in his budget..”.


  163. ‘Ontario’s rapid expansion in wind power projects has provoked a backlash from rural residents living near industrial wind turbines who say their property values are plummeting and they are unable to sell their homes, a CBC News investigation has found.’

  164. I’ll do an el gordo troll and just post a disconnected paragraph with no link or context and about as meaningful has his piece.

    Wind farms have a significant effect on land prices: both up and down. … per turbine had increased the value of land in the area with turbines by …

    Depending on many disparate factors and as it is with everything that is developed on the land, from the land and around the land, the effects will be positive, negative and every shade inbetween.

    So I don’t get the point.

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