The Australian unfaltering support for Mr. Abbott.

Have I missed something that must have occurred overnight. There must have been an election called. Looking at my emails and feeds, ,especially those from the Australian, going out of their way to tell us how wonderfully prepared is Mr. Abbott to lead this country.

The Australian is full of negative articles on the PM, all emphasising the pressuring she is under. The paper has gone out of it’s way to print very positive articles for Mr. Abbott. In depth on foreign Affairs and Industry.

…………………………………………………………………………………………

“…..FOR a supposedly populist politician focused on domestic issues, foreign affairs has played a central role in Tony Abbott’s rise and political ascendancy.

Just after he became Opposition Leader, he attended a Sydney lunch, with prime minister Kevin Rudd, for an Israeli delegation led by a cabinet minister.

This was an occasion for Rudd to shine – the Middle East, an international setting, loads of Israelis and friends of Israel. But Abbott stole the show that day by remarking that no delegation of Israelis would ever imagine that climate change was the greatest moral challenge of our time…”

I suggest that the Israelis only see their own needs as important. I cannot remember them ever showing concern for other people in their region. As for climate change, I am not so sure that Israel is into coal power to any great number. Mr. Abbott is better than Mr. Rudd, because he made a sarcastic remark, that had any meaning to the gathering. A remark that bought domestic politics to the world stage. Yes that is clever, especially when the fact is that Israel does take climate change seriously.

Making stupid remarks on the world stage makes this highly educated man clever. I miss the point.

“…..Government Decision on Preparation of a Climate Change Plan

Within the framework of a government decision on the preparation of a climate change action plan in Israel, working groups on mitigation were appointed in the summer of 2009 to prepare scenarios and means for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in different fields (e.g., energy, transport, agriculture, planning and building, etc.). The working groups will recommend national targets for potential greenhouse gas emissions reduction based on Israeli studies and the negotiations for a global agreement (post 2012).

http://www.sviva.gov.il/bin/en.jsp?enPage=e_BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=Zone&enDispWho=climate_mitigation&enZone=climate_mitigation…”

“….Abbott’s domestic success – polls show he would become prime minister in a landslide if an election were held now – is attributable in large measure to two issues in which foreign policy is central. He destroyed two leaders – Malcolm Turnbull on his own side and Labor’s Rudd – with an international argument, namely that the rest of the world is not doing anything like an emissions trading scheme or carbon tax, and therefore it would be folly for Australia unilaterally to impose such costs on itself…..”

Yes he has destroyed two leaders. That is his specially, demolition. The foreign affairs issues that the rest of the world is not doing anything. Surely Mr. Sheridan is joking, even he must know this is a lie.

“…..Yet, until today, there has not been a long, substantial foreign policy interview with Abbott. But the Opposition Leader is full of paradox. With degrees from the University of Sydney and the University of Oxford and three years in a Catholic seminary, Abbott would be, formally, our best-educated prime minister since World War II, with only Bob Hawke having equivalent qualifications. As a young man, Abbott lived abroad and, long before entering politics, travelled through Eastern Europe, India and Israel, essentially out of political interest……”

If the man is so highly educated and smart, tell me why he takes much trouble to hide the fact. Very little he says, shows his education and ability. He presents himself as one of the mob, with similar tastes and ideas. I can only say he is promoting a false picture of himself. More lies, lies, lies.

“…Abbott wants to take the relationship with China as far as it can go, he says, but “as long as China is a Communist Party-dominated autocracy there will be some bonds that will be hard to establish and maintain”….”

Well there is nothing like reminding us of the reds under the bed and the commo’s are coming to get us. Easier than making the effort to learn and deal with today’s issues. Everything is much easier in hindsight.

“…He would legalise the export of uranium to India and describes Australia’s scuttling of the quadrilateral security dialogue involving India, the US, Japan and Australia as “a great mistake”….”

Yes, encourage more nuclear weapon’s in a unstable part of the world. Very necessary thing to do.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/abbott-has-right-stuff-to-master-the-world/story-e6frgd0x-1226128545821 …..”

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

“……TONY Abbott made a speech on Monday this week about the economic challenges facing Australia. He spoke strongly in favour of market forces and free trade, and stressed the importance of governments not trying to pick winners. “The Coalition is strongly opposed to industry policy that props up over-manning and feather-bedding or that does not count the cost of intervening and honestly face up to it.” …”

“….. Paul Kelly saw this as a sign of Abbott “playing both sides of the fence”, pandering to protectionism, and displaying “stunning economic populism”….”

I can only agree with Mr. Kelly. Ms Taylor also appears to have similar beliefs.

“….Another to make a similar claim was The Sydney Morning Herald’s Lenore Taylor, who wrote: “Inquiring has the added advantage of allowing a party to appear to be all things to all people, which is more or less what the Coalition leader promised to be in his speech on Monday, where he said he was committed to free markets but also saw good reasons to protect manufacturing.”…”

“……If you start with that view, the temptation to read Monday’s arguments simply as code for retro-populism and channelling Bob Santamaria is probably irresistible….”

Funny how Mr. Bob Santamaria name keeps popping up.

“…One of Abbott’s skills is to wear his Rhodes scholarship and his learning lightly. Bob Hawke was the only other contender for the highest office to match him in that regard. Both understand that policy forums and summits where stakeholders can hammer out acceptable compromise positions are very useful because they’re the best way to ensure that leaders take enough of the people with them.

On that score it’s worth noting that John Howard recently broke cabinet confidentiality to confirm Abbott was the senior minister who’d had industrial relations in his portfolio who was most critical of Work Choices when it was discussed…”

Maybe but I do not remember Mr. Hawke giving the impression that he was uneducated or stupid. The opposite was true, Mr. Hawke was proud of his intelligent. Coming from the union movement meant that he could genuinely mix with all. He did not act the part. What we saw was Mr. Hawke.

“…Nor will he be falling into what he sees as the Gillard government’s besetting sin: “telling business what’s good for it and abusing people who dare to disagree”.

Nor will he be falling into what he sees as the Gillard government’s besetting sin: “telling business what’s good for it and abusing people who dare to disagree”….”

No chance of that, he will be too busy lying and telling them what they want to hear.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/industry-debate-more-nuanced-than-it-seems-in-print/story-e6frgd0x-1226128391645

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

“…TONY Abbott is offering to work with the Gillard government on a policy of processing asylum-seekers offshore, if Nauru is included, as Labor faces a split over how Australia handles efugees …”

“….I think Nauru might be legally acceptable, subject to Nauru signing the UN refugee convention and secondly the Australian government establishing the processing centre, staffing the processing centre with Australian officials and having them answerable to Australian law in such a way the processing centre would be akin to an embassy or a consulate that we have in overseas countries, which at law are recognised as sovereign Australian soil.”..”

Well why not just do it onshore, where I am sure it is less costly.

And while they are at it, I suggest they get rid of the private companies running the centres. The experiment has been a failure.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/tony-abbott-puts-nauru-deal-to-julia-

I assume it will be on the grounds that the PM bows deeply and promises to bring all of Mr. Howard’s actions.

Now, what I would like to know why it would work now. I would like to know how you get around the two court judgements.

I would like to know how the majority who believe we should be processing onshore will greet this action.

Personally I do not believe we can go back to the past. Personally I do not believe it will work.

What I most want to know, is how long do they stay there and where do they go when they leave.

Most of all, I want to know the cost.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

“…..THE opposition would support home-basing of US warships in northern Australia, according to Tony Abbott. …..”

“….Australian and US officials are involved in intense discussions over an increased US military presence in northern Australia, and these discussions are believed to include the possibility of eventually home-porting one or more US ships in Australia….”

“…..In his first extended foreign policy interview as Opposition Leader, Mr Abbott said: “I’d welcome it.” If he became prime minister and the US made such a proposal, “my instinct would be to find a way of saying yes”.

Mr Abbott also said he would continue to receive the when the Tibetan spiritual leader visited Australia.

This would be sure to cause protests from Beijing…”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/come-on-down-abbott-says-coaltion-would-welcome-us-bases-in-australia/story-e6frg8yo-1226128454856

I was under the impression that the Dalai Lama only sees himself as a religious leader now.

Another article build Mr. Abbott up. Consists mostly of mother hood statements.

…………………………………………………………………………………….

There are at least nine opinion pieces and news items, all saying that the PM is finished. This is for the Australian alone. Not a bad effort. Not one positive news or opinion article. I am sure I would find more if I looked harder.

Nine article or headlines, all saying the same thing. Not a bad effort.

Before anyone runs in with a comment that this is a rant.  You are right, it is.  I also think it is a justifiable rant.  I started off making an comment for another post but it just grew.

243 comments on “The Australian unfaltering support for Mr. Abbott.

  1. Australia’s attitude to those who support the science.

    “My colleagues working in the climate sciences have largely given up trying to correct the constant stream of misinformation from The Australian, in frustration.

    The Australian’s anti-science campaign takes many forms. One is the inflation of the credentials of their fake experts. For example, OpEd writer and member of the Outdoor Recreation Party Jon Jenkins was referred to as an “Adjunct Professor”. Bond University wrote to The Australian informing them that this was not true.

    Howard Brady was called a “climate change researcher from Macquarie University”; in fact, Brady is a 70 year-old retiree who has published just seven scientific papers (on Antarctic sediments, not climate), the most recent one in 1983, following which he worked for 17 years in the oil industry. Macquarie University contacted The Australian to set the record straight.

    In neither of these cases did The Australian publish a retraction or ..”

    http://www.blogotariat.com/node/223348clarification.

  2. We cannot have the Gillard government protecting the rights of mother and children in violent marriages. The rights of father’s should rule supreme.

    Thank you PM for your efforts, I hope you succeed.

    “Women’s rights push dads aside”

    “The Gillard government has got around this by deciding to redefine family violence. The Family Law Legislation Amendment (Family Violence and Other Measures) Bill 2011 has expanded the definition to include psychological harm, financial abuse and other threatening behaviour that controls, coerces or causes fear. Significantly, the government has ruled out requiring that fear of family violence be “reasonable”.

    Based on past experience in the Family Court, the expanded definition will create a new and open-ended legal means by which good fathers are banished from the lives of their children. There also no longer will be any penalty (no cost orders) for knowingly making false allegations, and the friendly parent provisions, requiring parents to be supportive of each other’s role in their children’s lives, will be substantially diminished.

    The amending bill is due to be read for third time in the Senate in coming weeks and will pass on the votes of Labor and Greens senators. Complaints about the kangaroo justice dished out to fathers in the Family Court used to be the No 1 source of complaints to the offices of MPs. MPs should prepare themselves for a repeat when the new laws start making children fatherless..”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/womens-rights-push-dads-aside/story-e6frgd0x-1226128389989

    Yes, once again the Australian.

    I am sure they will have the support of Mr. Abbott.

    We cannot have DV properly described. Believe me the psychological is the hardest to prove and causes Te worse damage.

    Yes it kills when the mother gives up hope and take their own lives, and sadly that of the children.

    When the father’s mental state is not identified, they also are in danger of taking the lives of the children, along with their own.

    It is an important matter that has nothing to do with fathers rights.

  3. The Australian attempting to sell a sows ear as a silk purse.

    You have to wonder what Abbott has offered Ltd. News for this unbridled support to the point of distortions and lies that are trashing the brand, destroying the reputation of The Australian, the little of it left that is.

  4. I understand The Australian sticking to their promote-Abbott-at-all-costs mantra, but what’s been more surprising/disappointing to me today has been saying how much Fairfax is pushing ‘let’s return to Rudd!’. Every editorial in the SMH is a variation on the same theme.

  5. Sorry Shane, I have not got around to the SMH.

    The Australian has kept me occupied along with the press conference with the PM and the Secretary General of the UN.The SG at one stage said he was not free to answer some of the questions.

    It was the most disgraceful behaviour that I have seen of the media up to now.

    They were not successful in that the PM handled herself well. The lady must have wonderful self control.

    The SG used the questions to mount praise on the PM and Australia.

    There are many important issues across the world that could and should have been asked of the SG.

    I believe there will be little praise for the journalist from decent people.

  6. Anything, any rumour any distortion any snippet of hot juicy gossip will do.. Gossip sells newspapers/gets the clicks..job done and let’s not worry about whether there is even a skerrick of factual information.

  7. Catching up,
    I’m very glad your comment grew into a post, and it could not truthfully be called a rant when you have linked to the proof of your ‘comment’ 🙂

    I’ll have to read it later, but I did notice in the lineup from google news that Fairfax is on a bit of a roll as well.

    Every Coalition talking head has been demanding/suggesting that we ‘need an election now’.
    Most of these people are lawyers, which means that they know they are talking utter ‘crap’, and according to Antony Green they wouldn’t get what they want:-

    September 01, 2011
    Can the Coalition win Control of the Senate through a Half-Senate Election?
    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/09/can-the-coalition-win-control-of-the-senate-through-a-half-senate-election.html

    In short, it is a chance, but the odds on it happening are long.

    1 September 2011, 7.26pm AEST
    The hidden media powers that undermine democracy
    http://theconversation.edu.au/the-hidden-media-powers-that-undermine-democracy-3028

    accredited journalists and politicians, when unacquainted, make beelines for each other, in search of mutual favours, usually under the cover of discretion and silence. Sweetheart deals are struck. Press releases are exchanged, digested, recycled. Dissenting voices are ex-communicated, pushed out through the revolving doors. Misfits are advised of the penalties, such as social and professional ostracism, for wandering too far off message, from the cosy fold.

    2 June 2011, 10.49pm AEST
    Bob Brown and the media: ‘I’ll take them on … they’ve crossed the line’

    http://theconversation.edu.au/bob-brown-and-the-media-ill-take-them-on-theyve-crossed-the-line-1607

    Who holds power in media and how they exercise it

    The role of the Fourth Estate, in particular the Murdoch press (Bob Brown: “I will take them on”)

    How the ABC “feeds straight off” The Australian and News Ltd stories

    How democracy is undermined by those who can buy influence, such as Gina Rinehart

    How lobbyists lay siege to politicians who attend the Press Gallery’s Mid Winter Ball

    Why debate on climate change is so poor

    Holding the balance of power in the Senate

  8. For this to happen, Mr. Turnbull would have to support the NBN Co for one. The independents were not fussy about the Coalition policies as well.

    Why would the dependents put their own future at risk for the good of the Coalition.

    All of them have said they nave no problems with the PM.. All like how she operates.

    Mr. Wilkie is making a noise but were is he going to go to get a better deal.

    I am not to sure he will not do a deal with the Coalition.. If he does, the man is a fool. He will lose the respect of his supporters.

    “The independents are clear they would not support Tony Abbott to form government, but say they could well support a Coalition government led by Malcolm Turnbull.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/pm-looks-wobbly-as-talk-turns-to-alternatives-20110902-1jq7e.html#ixzz1WrvDGJW5

  9. How the headlines should read:

    “Media Talking Heads have Slow Week

    Manufacture Threat to PM’s Leadership.

    Media talking heads, in a bid to manufacture controversy and sell some dead trees have raised the old chestnut of a threat to the PM”s leadership to create instability within the Labor Party, by once again attempting to foster ill feeling between Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard.”

  10. CU, Pip has this link at Murdoch. I thought it important as it shows the double standards of News Ltd. Murdoch press shouts that PM Gillard wrong to “challenge High Court”, yet in UK Murdoch puts private in vestigators onto Lawyers
    Phone hacking: victims’ lawyers were targeted

    The Law Society described the allegations as “another low point” in the hacking scandal and said it had written to the Leveson inquiry asking for the issue to be explored in the course of its investigations into illegal newsgathering. The Independent understands that Tom Crone, the NOTW’s former chief lawyer, will be asked by MPs on Tuesday who at News International (NI) was responsible for sanctioning the snooping operation against the lawyers, who include Charlotte Harris and Mark Thomson. He will be questioned by the House of Commons’ Media Select Committee.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/phone-hacking-victims-lawyers-were-targeted-2348387.html

  11. I don’t think the Coalition needs the independants. Unless the Coalition give preferences to Wilkie he is gone. The seat would be better in Labor hands or if the Coalition got lucky, the seat would reside on the light side.
    Oakshott was gone when he gave his speech a year ago. Not sure about Windsor. he may scrape back. The WA guy is ok. Katter is well … Katter.
    I don’t think the Independants or the Greens for that matter will figure in the lower house. The senate will be an interesting tussle. I wonder who wiill blink first if a DD is in the offing. I don’t think TA will blink.

  12. Yeah let’s not blame the media, especially the Murdoch media, as they have been honest, transparent, unbiased and as harsh on Abbott and the Coalition as they have been on Gillard and Labor. Ltd. News has been especially fair and generous in their reporting of the Greens and treat them like any other party that has had the percentage of votes they have or less, you know like the Nationals.

    Geoff ust how is a DD in the offing? Please read Antony Green.

  13. Geoff, speaking as an elected representative (former) my idea was once that once I got in that I would grab the chance to do the best that I could while I could. I think that sometimes people in the general public do not understand this, that it’s not a ‘career choice’, but that it’s passion to do the best that you while you can.

    Elected representatives know that they have only a limited timeframe to get through ‘a something’.

  14. Right! Julia’s problems are due to the media!!!!

    Why oh why did the High Court do what Murdoch told them? The High Court judges are mindless puppets, and the ALP barrackers here are the only ones who can see the truth!!

  15. “The senate will be an interesting tussle. I wonder who wiill blink first if a DD is in the offing. I don’t think TA will blink.

    “DD is not in the offering and is unlikey to be for a long time.

    TomM, no one is blaming the media. One is saying the media stinks.

    Read what we say. Not what you think we say.

  16. ToM, I support the High Court, it after all was a full bench now wasn’t it. I believe that Gillard has made an error.

  17. Look, I could go through the many, many, many comments here that blame the media for Julia’s dismal popularity.

    Barrackers here put themselves on a pedestal, consider themselves among the few that see the truth – uninfluenced by the media.

    You lot are routinely critical of the commonsense of the general populace.

    This is a site that lapses into lazy “blame the media” commentary, without considering that the high level of incompetence of the government might have something to do with the falling popularity of the government.

  18. ToM, since when has government ever been a Popularity Contest..oh yes that’s right when Rupert Murdoch started calling it….

  19. ‘Why debate on climate change is so poor’

    Over the years Fairfax, the ABC and SBS have been biased in their view of climate change, that is, they accept AGW is real and there is nothing else to consider.

    The Murdoch press, to their credit, has consistently shown both sides of the debate.

  20. ‘since when has government ever been a Popularity Contest’

    I casually mentioned yesterday that the next PM will be chosen by Galaxy poll and I stand by that.

  21. Right! Julia’s problems are due to the media!!!!

    Well the media reported that the government will impose a carbon tax on taxpayers, which is patently untrue.

    The media reported that BER was a complete failure with appalling waste, contrary to the Orgill Report which stated that it was a success with a 97% approval, and I might add agrees with empirical evidence.

    The media reported that the insulation program is a failure, contrary to official (and far more believable than anything coming from the Murdochracy) assessments and empirical evidence.

    Just three examples, ToM. I didn’t want to hog all the evidence. Rest assured the list will be expanded for you.

    And it is quite disgusting to find you leaping to the defence of Ltd News the mob who employed a suspected murderer to coordinate their illegal phone tapping and hacking program.

    The same principled mob who hacked a murdered girl’s phone to listen to the frantic messages from her family, deleting messages and possibly evidence so they could milk the tragedy for longer. And all at the behest of the Emperor and his spawn.

    This is the way that Ltd News is run. Their default position is to lie, obfuscate and distort. And that’s fact.

  22. “Why oh why did the High Court do what Murdoch told them? The High Court judges are mindless puppets, and the ALP barrackers here are the only ones who can see the truth!!”

    The media could have made an effort to report the judgement without the hysteria that went with what they reported.

    It was a judgement that was not expected by anyone, including the Opposition.

    It was not unreasonable that Labor believed they would be successful.

    It is not unusual for the High Court to over turn decisions of all governments.

    It is not unusual for governments to complain.

    It does not mean that the PM was amiss in attempting the policy.

    It is not necessary for the media to put their own hype on the matter. In fact most of the reporting is hype with very little factual information. If you want that, you have to go looking, on the web as very little is to be found in the media.

  23. “Blame the media” because this government is such a well oiled machine.

    Only the rest of the public was as smart as those here!

  24. TomM re: Look, I could go through the many, many, many comments here that blame the media for Julia’s dismal popularity.

    Nooo. The topic here on this blog is Media Watch where we look for inaccuracies, distortorions and basically making it up as they go along.

    Migs set Media Watch up not long after we set up this blog, and Migs also set up Australians for an Honest Media Facebook group.

    Hey TomM while you’re at it, why not post Migs Facebook group under your real name, the rest of us do.

  25. ‘The topic here on this blog is Media Watch where we look for inaccuracies,’

    Like they do at Deltoid…now there’s a wasted space.

  26. This article is along the lines of this post but a little more biting.

    “…One of Abbott’s skills is to wear his Rhodes scholarship and his learning lightly. Bob Hawke was the only other contender for the highest office to match him in that regard.

    Uh huh. But it turns out that Abbott picked up a Masters in Politics and Philosophy at Oxford, which has bugger all to do with economics, with his degree in that area and in law coming from Sydney University. So it’s just as well he wears his Rhodes scholarship lightly, or next thing you know we’d be in a philosophical discussion of paradoxes, and the way you can have your protectionism and your free markets, and eat your cake while keeping it for later …

    Sadly, in the area of economics, Abbott has always been considered a bit of a dill (head back to 2010 and you can read Laurie Oakes getting agitated in Coalition weak on economics, or to Bernard Keane in Abbott and the economy: best of enemies). He always had a taste for spending (witness his time as Health Minister) and he’s inclined to interventionist strategies …

    Abbott is also a populist – or at least a wannabe populist – and so the recent surge of populist protests demanding an election now, and his recent speeches have included a healthy dose of populist economics, and other artful trawling to the populace. Well he is a politician …”

    http://loonpond.blogspot.com/2011/09/christopher-pearson-tony-abbott-and-art.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LoonPond+%28loon+pond%29

  27. el gordo, this post is on the media’s focus on Mr. Abbott and by inference it’s inability to mention anything positive about the PM.

    el gordo, show me one example in today’s media that shows Mr. Abbott in the slightest negative light. Show me one that shows the PM in any positive light.

    No one is all negative. No one is all positive.

    I have used only examples from the Australian.

  28. el gordo, is it up to the media to pick sides.

    If they do, they should have an obligation to put the side they are backing in big letters in their banner headlines.

  29. Min, I don’t participate on facebook.

    But those here can continue to deny that the plummeting popularity of Julia might be due to many people finding examples of incompetence in “the government she leads”.

    But then what would the public know? If only they were are perceptive as the people here.

  30. ToM, oh dear don’t you..well most of us on all of the blogs do. You might be surprised who you might find there if/when you choose to join in.

  31. TomM. the polls show that she is unpopular. They do not show Mr. Abbott as being much more popular. There is little between the two.

    The poll show the Opposition government as being popular. Is it popular in spite of Mr. Abbott.

    Is the polls support for the Opposition simply that it is not Labor.

    Most PM’s have gone through periods of being unpopular. It generally occurs when they are doing the job.

    History also shows that majorities can be wrong, very wrong.

    Polls can also change and change quickly.

    We have in NSW a coalition government that won in a landslide. I am not picking up much love or respect for that government. It is my belief it’s success was because of one reason, it was not Labor.

    This government, after a few months is getting daily bad press.

  32. “the polls show that she is unpopular. They do not show Mr. Abbott as being much more popular. There is little between the two.”

    LOL! What drugs are you on?

    The polls show that Abbott would win in landslide!!!

    “Little between the two”

    You’re kn dreamin!!!

  33. The polls do show that Mr. Abbott for the first time in the last few weeks has edged a little ahead of the PM.

    The polls show that the PM is doing a little better than Labor

  34. Min, I post at “Australians for an Honest Media” with topics that i think are relevant. I think that Gillard is finished, and the polls consistentlt reflect this. Or is the Facebook page only for topics that say Labor = good, Coalition = bad??????? History would seem to suggest so.

  35. Reb, sadly the popularity of a leader does not have much influence on the outcome of an election.

    There have been unpopular leaders whose party has gone onto win.

    I cannot recall any party that is low in the polls with a popular leader that has won.

    It is where the party is in the polls that is important, not the popularity of the leader..

  36. Yes as Admin of AFAHM I fully appreciate that you post to Migs’ FB group.

    I don’t think that in the entire history of Migs’ site being: Australians for an Honest Media that you have ever ever been denied posting any of your links to your site..and certainly not in my time as Admin.

  37. “sadly the popularity of a leader does not have much influence on the outcome of an election. ”

    Earth to Catching Up….

    Julia is at record lows..

    Labor is at record lows…

    The Coalition will win an election in a landslide…

    What were you saying again about “popularity” and “election outcomes?”

    🙄

  38. No, he is not. You could probably put another leader tomorrow and the figures would remain the same.

    When people are asked who else they would like to see lead the Coalition, there are many that poll higher than Mr. Abbott.

    I am not saying that it is not Mr. Abbott’s efforts that put the Coalition in this position.

    I am saying what Mr. Abbott’s personal polling is not outstanding is only moved very slowly upwards over the last twelve months.

    For much of that time the PM led him..

    I am not talking about perceptions or opinions, I am talking about figures that the polls produce.

  39. “I don’t think that in the entire history of Migs’ site being: Australians for an Honest Media that you have ever ever been denied posting any of your links to your site.”

    And your point is?

  40. Gee, thanks CU, I din’t know that. But who would win an election right now, and why do you think that is…?

    Is it all the murdock’s media fault, or would you be prepared to concede that gillard has acutally just fked things up?

  41. ““sadly the popularity of a leader does not have much influence on the outcome of an election. ”

    Earth to Catching Up….

    Julia is at record lows..

    Labor is at record lows…

    The Coalition will win an election in a landslide…”

    Have I denied this Reb.

    What I am saying, the polls are only saying what might happen now, today.

    They do not show why people think the way they do. They do not tell what people might be thinking in twelve months.

    Yes, on the evidence of the polls. Labor would lose if an election was held today.

    Poll results are not set in stone.

    Polls can be fickle.

  42. Reb, maybe not Murdoch’s fault but they have not been very helpful.

    I do know that the perception of the PM and the Labor government that is in the community do not fit in with the facts.

    The Labor government have many more successes that failures.

  43. “Polls can be fickle”

    But generally reliable.

    Anyway, I wasted enought tiime here…

    Enjoy thinking that Julia’s leading you to the next election…

    It aint’g gonna happen.

    And BTW Min I’ve cancellend my membership to Friends of an Honest Media, so you won’t have to worry about my persky “objectivity” getting in the way anymore…

  44. If you would like to make a comment praising the ABC for their actions.

    Other sites are posting a link for people to support Milne.

    http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/contact.htm

    It would nice to be like Reb, and be so sure you are right all the time. It would also be boring.

    If anyone believes they know what is going to occur in two months in this political climate is having themselves on.

    Either that or they have a crystal ball.

    Min, I do not know why you got that serve. you were very nice and welcoming.

    I think the man was looking for an excuse to be a little difficult. His problem is that you did not give you one.

    I think he comes over here now and then to stretch his brain a little.

  45. Good point from this one: http://blog.gerbilnow.com/2011/08/great-carbon-tax-distraction.html

    The “No Carbon Tax” movement is attacking what is little more than a “stuffed toy” that has been thrown to keep them occupied.

    Pricing regulators have been slugging households with sky-rocketing electricity prices for 4 years and will continue doing this, with or without a carbon tax. Households are being compelled to pay for the generation and delivery of cut-priced electricity to large businesses who happily use it without any thought to increasing efficiency and reducing carbon dioxide emissions.

    While the “No Carbon Tax” movement is devoting all its energy and efforts to stopping a carbon tax, it is being diverted from demanding an inquiry into the fixed-price electricity supply contracts that distort the electricity market and provide no incentive for large businesses to increase energy efficiency.

  46. “But generally reliable.”

    For today but can change. They have been as consistent in the past, but then changed.

    Nothing in this world is set in stone, especially politics.

    ……………………………………………………..

    Mr. Bolt has said it would be a miracle for the PM to remain PM.

    I suggest to Mr. Bolt and his supporters, that Mr. Abbott must believe in miracles, if he can bring off his predicted budget.

    That is that we have more and pay less. Mr. Abbott either believes he can perform th miracle of the loaves and fishes, or he can turn the budget into a magic pudding. There is no other way he can do it.

    If Mr. Abbott can have his miracles, we can continue to believe the PM is not yet written off.

    Yes, it is going to be tough, now and in the future.

    To succeed, the PM and the government have to forget about the next election and focus on being the most efficient and productive this country has seen.

    This PM and government has the ability and depth to do so.

    They need to begin by separating how we deal with the asylum seekers that come by boat and the boat trade.

    They are two separate matters. that should not be dealt with as one.

    It is time to start doing as our obligations to them and to fairness and justice demand, on shore and resettled into the community asap.

    The boat trade should be dealt with by working with all the countries in th region. To succeed we will have to find new solutions. Maybe must find a humane solution that the rest of the world can follow. Maybe there can be a humane way of coming up with something akin to the Malaysian Solution.

    Indonesia and Malaysia have much bigger and real problems than we do.

    There are answers. We just have to find them. The Opposition’s Pacific Solution comes from and belongs in the past.

    It is time to get that mining tax act in place quickly. Many would like to see it increased.

    It is time for his government to circulate as widely as possible what it achieves. They need to do it every day until the public noticed. They need to do it at every opportunity until it becomes a part of the public perception about Labor. Labor does not have waste time condemning Mr. Abbott, he will achieve that himself.

    The government needs to be so busy, that it does not have time to be bothered with what the media or Opposition is doing.

    If Mr. Abbott can answer every question with a bad government, up, up, up, I am sure Labor can follow his example and do it better.

    It is time for the PM to continue to do, as she is now doing, laying the ground work for future reforms.

  47. “While the “No Carbon Tax” movement is devoting all its energy and efforts to stopping a carbon tax,”

    Min it is allowing the suppliers to get away with daylight robbery.

    The longer the carbon pricing remains up in the air, the longer it will take the power suppliers to modernise and become more efficient.

    The objectors to dealing with climate change, along with lack of investment in the industry and possibly privatising that has led to this mess.

    The advent of carbon pricing mechanism, has not cause the rapid rise in cost but could help to stabilise the industry in the future.

    Yes, many industries will find it costly to change. To do so, many will have to find new technology.

    Often the new technology will not only be cleaner but cheaper and more efficient for the industry involved.

    Industry is always modernising with new technology. If not, it will become redundant, replaced by those who do.

  48. Point taken from Peter Garrett..that the Labor government is spending double the amount of money on education than the Howard government did.

  49. Min, and on eduction, family support, health.

    The list just goes on and on.

    What did the Howard government spend it massive receipts on????

    Watching Insiders. It appears that it was Rudd’s day yesterday.

    Shame the Herald Sun headlines does not fit in with the fact.

    The PM explained that Mr. Rudd was catching up with a meeting that was missed because of his heart operation. The SG was only in the country, passing through to NZ.

    It is nice to have a PM that does not feel she has to be in every photo op and does not feel she has to be in every picture.

    A thing that Mr. Howard found impossible to do. He believe that he was the top pin in this country, not the GG. No photo op was ever missed.

  50. As friend Scott just pointed out on Australians for an Honest Media Facebook group, “yet another new bill starts today. woohoo”.

  51. Breaking news: the government has received advice from the Solicitor General that all offshore processing including Nauru is very likely to be also unlawful.

  52. There goes the theory that Gillard was finished because of the failure of her asylum seeker policy because if she no longer has an asylum seeker policy then neither does Tony Abbott.

  53. I love Mr. Bowen’s response that Mr. Abbott will probably reject the advice like he has jettison all other expert advice, including that on climate change.

    Mr. Bowen reinforced my belief that Mr. Abbott cherry picks all advice.

    It is my belief that Mr. Abbott is not interested facts, only interested in creating false perceptions in the community and will stop at nothing to achieve this.

    The cartoonist said it begs the question, what would Mr. Abbott’s arse be worth. It was added that a lot of work has gone into it, and it would be probably less that Mr. Hockey’s.

    Annabel’s prediction is that there will be further damaging information about the PM that will not appear.

    Not a bad Insiders episode. I did not agree with all, but it is was a change listening to adult discussion, not ill informed shock jocks.

  54. Mr. Bowen said for the first time, there is nothing in the Nauru proposition that would stop the boats.

    Put them on Nauru, caged them up for an indefinite length of time, bring them to Australia.

    How does this curtail the boats.

    Nauru as bad as it is, is probably no worse than being stranded in Indonesia and Malaysia.

  55. What reb, ToM, Geoff & el gordo don’t seem to appreciate is that a federal election is 2 years away, not 2 weeks.

    In that time the carbon price will have been operating for 12 months and the sky will still be in place and Sir Liealot will have shot himself in both feet several times and even the best efforts of the Murdoch press won’t be able to conceal it, particularly if the Murdochracy has been brought to its knees by its own actions both here and o/s.

    In fact, I feel confident that the Emperor and his spawn will quite possibly be banned from either owning or having an interest in, print or other media.

    I also believe that the result of an enquiry into the media, in particular media ownership, in this country will result in much stricter ownership rules, to prevent future malevolent megalomaniacs like Emperor Rupert from owning or having an influence over any more than a, say 10%, interest in the msm.

    And any legislation in that regard should be iron clad, in much the same way as the carbon pricing legislation will be, to prevent future Emperors and their familiars from manipulating it.

    Most importantly, the msm should not be allowed to self regulate. There should be an independent body to investigate complaints and to keep a close eye on their performance, particularly creatures like Anal, Dolt and other shock jocks and dingbats of any persuasion.

  56. Jane,
    Correct me if I’m wrong but was Reb promoting his blog on FB Australians For An Honest Media while trashing same.
    If so, that’s just a little bit rude.

  57. I can’t answer that, Pip. I don’t have anything to do with Facebook, but if it’s right, it is a bit hypocritical.

    I don’t know what’s crawled up his nose and died, he seems to have fallen for the Murdochracy’s lies and distortions. Too much time spent in the company of cheerleaders like ToM, el gordo, James and other dingbats who infest his blog, must have dulled his bullsh!t detectors.

  58. If there is one thing that ALP barrackers distain, it is any challenge.

    That’s why they hang out in clusters, gossiping and sniping.

    They habitually avoid any blog where their narrow-mindedness will be challenged,

  59. “he seems to have fallen for the Murdochracy’s lies and distortions”

    Once again, that’s the typical sort of response I’d expect to get over at TPS, and is increasingly common here at the cafe.

    As Min will tell any of you, I hate Tony Abbott as much as the next person, however I am not so “rusted on” to Labor that I’m of the opinion that Julia Gillard is beyond reproach.

    Just because Abbott and his mob are detestable, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Gillard and Labor should be beyond criticism.

    Myabe you should try a little objectivity around these parts from time to time, rather than just attack people who are capable of greater objectivity than the Gillard love fest that’s on display here.

  60. It seems I need to repeat the question…

    Pip – would you care to point out exactly where I have “trashed” Australians For an Honest Media??

  61. It’s one thing the Liberal barrackers disdain, it’s any challenge.

    That’s why they hang out in clusters, gossiping and sniping.

    They habitually avoid any blog where their narrow-mindedness will be challenged. And that one is a real laugh coming from TomM. Projection at its best from him yet again.

    It goes both ways and reb is right on that, but you are as bad a barracker as those you attempt to label with that term as a derision TomM. It’s an old trick of yours and hammering something over and over is another. In that you are like Neil.

    But when you look at it overall, and has been written on in papers and research, it is the left that criticise their own the most and the right who are the narrow minded rusted on never criticise and always defend their own.

    This turning around of the facts is something that is happening across the innerwebs and across countries as the right with highly influential and deep pockets behind them run the agenda.

  62. “it is the left that criticise their own the most and the right who are the narrow minded rusted on never criticise and always defend their own.”

    Perhaps Adrian. I think that was a quality that the left possessed to a greater extent in the past. In recent times less so.

    You only need to take a look at Wayne Swan and hear the drivel that he spouts about how marvellous the economy is while manufacturing is drying up, and retail and tourism are struggling.

    But yes, I agree, those on the right will always prevail as the most mean-spirited and hate-filled people around.

  63. NO Adrian, unlike you, I go to places (like here) specifically to challenge, and unlike you, I’ve not drawn back the sites that reinforce my perspective.

    And despite your continual misrepresentation of my political orientation, I haven’t bothered to respond to the infantile provocation.

    Unlike you, I don’t bother with a mindless “search and replace” structure of reply. I actually write a reply.

    Despite all your claims at Blogocracy to support ethics in government, you’ve proved to be another barracker, and one who distains challenge.

  64. Oh good one TomM coming from someone who constantly invokes infantile provocations not just once or every now and again but over and over.

    And despite your constant assertions to the contrary and putting the barracker tag on others as a derision you prove time and time again that you are as much a barracker as anyone.

    Challenge my arse, you don’t challenge. You provoke and assert whilst calling that a challenge. You deride one side whilst nearly always ignoring the failures of the other, and in fact sticking up for the other. Is it just coincidence that you come running in here whenever Abbott is being rightly criticised and held to account for yet another of his lies and distortions, you know the ones you never criticise or highlight, whilst always doing a “quick look over here, there, anywhere at Labor but please don’t look at Abbott or the Liberals.”

    I used the search and replace reply in this case because it is more than apt. What you claim as a criticism of those here holds equally to you and others who you never bother to hold to account for their bias and one sidedness. You are very selective in your derision and claims of barracking, and its there for all to see which side you deem to hold to account and which you don’t.

    And for all that who the fuck are you to tell anyone who they should or should not barrack for, whilst being a barracker yourself. And who the fuck are you to tell people how their blogs should be run. Why are you over at Bolt’s or the many other right wing blogs where a contra view is discouraged and indeed actively censored and trashed?

    Another indication of an ingrained barracker that he thinks he’s so full of his own importance that he can tell others how they should respond and where they should go.

  65. Adrian oscillates between the infantile and the ranting.

    But but these days, only on sites where he goes largely unchallenged.

    I’ve posted comprehensively about my past and current political affiliations – there’s no secret. Despite what you’d prefer to invent.

  66. I’ve posted comprehensively about my past and current political affiliations – there’s no secret.

    As have I TomM but you overlook that. What you have posted in the past about affiliation has little to do with what you have been doing recently, which is a full blown one sided attack not only the government but anyone you deem to dare to stand up for their record in anyway. Their achievements are to be overlooked and put down whilst any failure, no matter how big but especially small, and no matter that it is based on fact, is to be exaggerated and repeated over and again in the most infantile and repetitive rants possible. And anyone who dares picks up on this, why they are a barracker of course, whilst TomM is not.

    And you think your rants aren’t infantile? Please TomM a little introspection.

  67. Reb is this the one that you’re looking for.

    Bye. It seems my “honest” opinions aren’t welcome here, unless my views equate to a Gillard Labor Govt is good, an Abbott Coalition Govt is bad. So much for HONESTY.

  68. No, you are unable to distinguish between my orientation – a self confessed, informed critic of the ALP structure, as well as the unsavoury outcomes from union political affiliation and the effects this has on poor policy and party governance, and something that I’m not –“an Abbott barracker”.

    I’ve always acknowledged I’m the former, and your low level attempts at provocation just demonstrate that you’re confused.

    But you have shown that you are an advocate of ethics in government (when the ALP is in opposition) as well as a sterling advocate of political expedience and poor policy (when the ALP is in government).

    …and you prefer to express your opinions without much challenge.

  69. TomM, maybe ME does not visit those sites often, is because they insist in on recycling the same issue over and over.

    I know that is the reason I do not go as often.

    There is a limited to how often one can say the same thing.

    Time moves on and so do the issues.

    Now TomM, I know you have a union background, I suspect in unions like the AWU or similar, probably right wing unions. That is only a guess.

    We have had the Thomson affair and nowhere did you suggest that the Oppositions aim was to stir up trouble between the unions, where disagreements, giving it a nice name, has been an undercurrent for many years.

    Not a word.

    I think that ME is only trying to help you. He must see you as a friend, otherwise he would not bother.

  70. reb @2.09pm, it’s no surprise that tourism and manufacturing are suffering atm for a few reasons which I think Swan has pointed out. Our success at avoiding the worst of the first tranche of the GFC is also our curse.

    The mining boom has also been a double edged sword, driving the Aussie dollar up, leaving us with a two speed economy and making it difficult for the manufacturing sector to compete. And the fear of a second wave of the GFC is also making people very nervous.

    However, the government has just announced a raft of initiatives to help struggling sectors of the economy. Contrary to dingbat propaganda, the government is aware of the problem and is taking steps to aid the strugglers, unlike the Liars Party whose solution seems to be talking the economy down and giving big tax breaks to the rich.

    The idiots are incapable of understanding that causing huge unemployment is a recipe for economic disaster but that seems to be their only answer to economic problems; give tax breaks to the rich, who don’t need them and chuck the rest on the scrap heap. That’ll help keep the place going, not.

    Europe is on its knees and the US economy is still taking hits and isn’t being helped by the dingbats whose intent seems to be to drive the economy into a depression, when they think they’ll heroically step in and save the day to everlasting acclaim.

    We could be in for a rough ride over the next couple of years.

  71. TomM, there are no sites where one supports Labor that is not challenged.

    Note, that many of the posts are deliberately worded to ensure this happens. They do not hold anything back.

    I, for one is not that intersted being on a site, where every comment supports what I am saying. That would be boring, futile and would not take the debate very far.

  72. OK AnthonyG how about going to Bolt then. They are fair and balanced over there.

    Seems to me that everyone only wants blogs and forums that put shit on Labor and this government, especially Gillard. Dare to criticise Abbott and out come the army of Wingnut Zombie Trolls.

    Having a blog or outlet that dares to stick up for the government and does actually put out some balance by showing the good things done and the successes is a big no no and not allowed under any circumstances otherwise in come the supposed unbiased and fair to put matters right, call everyone barrackers and to dump on a blog for daring to do so.

    On the other hand Abbott is untouchable. He is not to be judged as a possible PM as Rudd was for two years before the 2007 election, oh no, that won’t do. Point out the opposition’s failings, and they are considerable and must bring to question their suitability to govern, oh shit that is absolutely not allowed.

    No you are only allowed to put down the government, and not any government, just Labor governments. For instance where is all the criticisms of O’Farrell and his string of broken promises, now jobs for the boys and his grand standing whilst doing nothing he promised he would? Nowhere of course. The previous State Labor government deservedly was criticised from here to infinity and beyond, but not a Liberal State government that is so performing just as bad by all measurements. And it’s not just NSW Liberals that are failing, but the other State Liberals as well.

    Dare criticise them and point out their lies and failures, shit you’re a barracker and scum.

    All that is done whilst claiming to be fair, unbiased and balanced.

    Bullshit.

  73. “reb @2.09pm, it’s no surprise that tourism ”

    Of course the rest of the world should be beating a track to our front door.

    The high dollar, especially in a large island continent like ours with a small population, wouldn’t discourage people to come.

    To make things more difficult, the home tourist are taking advantage of the high dollar to go overseas. There is not much at this time that any government can do.

  74. Mobius Ecko,
    Mate sorry for the misunderstanding this fellow reb challenged the ladies about where he has challenged Australians for an Honest Media. The quote was what reb said on facebook.

  75. ME @4.26pm, hear! hear! Do I hear deathly silence in response?

    Like you, I think governments should be held to account and criticised where necessary, however, oppositions should also be scrutinised and held to account.

    What we have in this country is a dearth of scrutiny of the opposition, in fact total silence!

    ToM says we don’t need to bother scrutinising oppositions because they can’t implement their policies. I have many criticisms of that position. Sir Liealot and the Liars Party spruik that they are a viable alternative government, but all they have as proof is a string of slogans, very few, very dodgy “policies” and a press which offers no scrutiny at all.

    AFAIC, they are not an alternative government’s bootlace, but a mob of lazy, policy and principle bereft free loaders.

    That might be ToM, James and the other cheerleaders idea of good government material, but it’s not even good banana republic government.

  76. I agree Mobius..there are innumerable sites where one can go to trash the PM and these are of course supported by the MSM. The leftie blogs on the other hand are supported by volunteers and hopefully go some small way to redress the imbalance.

    I know for a fact that when we’ve been disappointed by some things that the government has put forward especially in regard to same sex marriage, but that we’ve supported this here. That is, the current Labor government is against same sex marriage but on this blog the proposition has always been supported by the authors.

    El gordo if you might recall was also invited by myself to put up a post which he/she subsequently did.

  77. Why are we attacking one another. Surely there is enough hate and division in the world.

    Free speech means that both sides have a right to express themselves.

    To me, free speech also means that each side has a right to respect.

    We are only talking about different opinions and beliefs that in reality do not differ much.

    ME, is right, there are not many sites that respect the views of those who supports Labor.

    What is happening now is not a debate between Labor and the Coalition. It is a debate about Mr. Abbott, who has become the Coalition and the rest. The hate and attack is towards our PM, not Labor or it’s policies.

    Something has gone amiss.

    Mr. Howard was great in promoting division in the community. He was able to divide and rule probably better than any other PM or Opposition leader up up Mr. Abbott.

    This is not good governance or leadership.

    I believe most of us have the same target, to see a better Australia. We all need to acknowledge there are many ways to do this.

    As for appearing like rusted on Labor supporters, this is sad but inevitable in like of the attack made on any one who who even mildly supports Labor policies.

    I would love to be able to criticise many of Labor’s present policies, but I do not want to add fuel to the fire. There are a majority of sites that condemn anything Labor does.
    All I am left with is the ability and opportunity to defend Labor policies where I believe they are being unfairly trashed.
    We do not need to condemn Labor on this site, as there are plenty of others filling that role.

    I ask that the personal attacks be dropped. They are not necessary, especially among old friends.

  78. Jane, and especially given that this is the alternative government. Surely Abbott and cronies should be even more heavily scrutinised given that the MSM consider them a shoo-in at the next election. I for one would like to know what to expect regarding health and education…so far these are a policy-free zone as far as the Opposition is concerned.

    I have feeling that the chooks might come home to root, Abbott having wasted his years in Opposition with nothing done except opposition for opposition’s sake.

  79. ME, I think that Anthony was defending us. He repeated a comment of Rebs. that I think was made in haste without thinking first.

  80. That’s crap Adrian.

    You, and others here, used to pretend to be open minded. Some even claimed to be swinging voters.

    Now, you don’t have any semblance of the objectivity you previously claimed. Nor do numerous others from Blogocracy, who suggested they were not politically aligned.

    Back in the Howard era, and in the lead up to the election, all the Liberal barrackers were outraged about their perception of media bias. How outraged would you have been if it was Howard considering an enquiry into the media?

    Now, ALP barrackers are finding that government is more difficult than opposition, and is scrutinised more closely. Don’t you lot squeal about it?!

  81. Reb has put up what I believe is a good balance post on GT.

    The comments being made do not do justice to it.

    It was post that should have invited some objective and constructive comments.

    Sadly that is not happening.

  82. ToM, yes I can claim absolutely that I’m non-politically alligned. I’ve only been a unionist once, on the executive of the Victorian Teachers’ Union..we were a radical lot and in fact earned the right for women to be able to wear ‘pants suits’ in classrooms. The mini skirts of those days were awkward attire in the classroom. But of course the old f*rts insisted that all female teachers should wear a dress.

    And then when I stood (and won), it was as an Independent. I’ve also had an excellent working relationship with Nats Don Page (when I was a disability advocate via the HREOC case I launched)..great bloke Don… and I’ve sat and shared a glass of wine or several with Doug Anthony on the beach at New Brighton (north of Byron Bay).

  83. Sorry AnthonyG, unreservedly. No excuse I got it wrong and was remiss.

    I’ll let TomM rant on in his hypocrisy and leave the personal out of it. I’ll continue to show the good this government has done, 188 policies passed without amendment and another about to be, that’s better than in any like period of Howard even when he had a majority.

    I’ll continue to hold the opposition up as the alternate government, just as Labor was in opposition and I’ll Abbott to account as an alternate PM even though others who claim to be balance only defend him or make excuses for his failings, lies and distortions.

    Cu reb is always good and is fair, it’s why he gets upset when he’s told he’s no and has every right to respond when he’s been wrongly criticised. The only disagreement I have with him is when he cans this site for being pro Gillard and the government. I don’t see what is wrong with that. Who said blogs and forums had to be down the middle and then why not also hold all those right wing blogs and forums to the same criticism.

    Why is only criticism of this government and the PM allowed? What rule said that you must only point out the bad points and ignore the good ones, no matter how significant the good points are, yet no matter how minor, distorted or even made the bad is they must be iterated over and over. They must be made fact and dominant whilst the good is sidelined and relegated to insignificant or non-existent.

    How is that fair and balanced? How is that barracking?

    As to the media being perceived as bias by the Howardistas during the 2007 election, well just read around the blogs, the Liberal barrackers still claim the media is biased against them, even Ltd. News.

    Now you tell me that they are fair and balanced? So where is the outrage on that, not the attacks are very selective indeed whilst bringing up straw men and look over theres.

    Pointed out but again overlooked is the imbalance in reporting and scrutiny of this government as compared to both the previous Coalition governments and when Labor were in opposition, in comparison to this opposition.

    Go back and read through the news and reporting along with the attacks by the Howard government on the Labor opposition. Labor was being constantly put up for scrutiny as the alternative government and being judged on their ability to rule the country whilst the Howard government acted like an opposition and did everything to avoid scrutiny. If you believe that this government has had an equal or less scrutiny than the Howard government did then you really are so biased and ideologically blinded that no evidence will convince you otherwise.

    So why the double standards? Why is the media, especially the Ltd News media, allowed to constantly attack the government, even making up things to do so but often also distorting facts, yet the opposition who almost daily lie and distort are allowed to do so without recourse? More than that they are allowed to get away with nonsense policies, brain farts and huge multi-billion holes in their funding. A lie or perceived one by the government or in an election is hammered continuously and mercilessly. A lie by the opposition and Liberal States governments is let by or only mentioned in a single small article usually underlying some praise or propping up.

    Dare to highlight the positives of Labor and in comes a poster telling you how bad this is and how you should run your blog.

    Stupid thing about this type of attack is that nothing is ever enough. You could dedicate this whole blog to attacking Labor and Gillard, like Bolt does, and like Bolt’s blog you will get complaints you are a barracker and not being harsh enough against the government and Gillard.

  84. Mobius, very early in the piece Migs decided that he wanted a blog where everyone was welcome.

    A blog is only the sum total of it’s contributors and if we attract lefties who do things such as research, provide links and voice contra opinions to those expressed in the media, then well..good for us I say.

    We have day in and day out negative comments, illusions and falsifications put forward by the media – we have a media quite prepared to overlook the fact that the current alternative government now has no policies whatsoever. Abbott used to have a ‘boat people’ policy which was Nauru but now no longer has one due to the High Court ruling. Where is Abbott’s ‘I’ll turn the boats back’ policy now? Where is his Climate Change policy? Trashed.

  85. ” The only disagreement I have with him is when he cans this site for being pro Gillard and the government. I don’t see what is wrong with that.”

    Fair point Adrian..

    I guess from at Blogocracy, what we had was a forum that criticised The Howard Govt (deservedly so) for its failings.

    Believe it or not, I actually want the Gillard govt to succeed, but it’s very difficult to keep cheering them on when there are so many stuff ups.

    Criticising the High Court for not giving them the answer they wanted was not a good look. Clearly they had no plan b.

    Which just adds to the perception of incompetence.

    I have it on good advice that the Gillard govt is having zero dialogue with leading Australian business figures, and this is causing them (industry) much anguish.

    There’s nothing wrong with being pro-government, equally there’s nothing wrong with calling them out when they stuff things up.

    Julia would have us believe that everything is going swimmingly well and that she’ll lead trhe Labor party to the next election.

    Anyone looking at the consistent polls would conclude that that simply won’t happen.

    It will take a miracle to turn the polls around. And I really can’t see Gillard pulling a rabbit (pardon the pun) out of the hat.

    What is particularly annoying is when I make these comments on this forum, I get labelled as someone who has fallen for “the Murdoch lies and distractions” which as you probably know couldn’t be further from the truth.

    Which in a way, perhaps explains why Tom concludes that people who level those sorts of accusations are just “barrackers”.

  86. Yes, TomM, I at this time belong to no union or political party. It is over fifteen years since I have been a member of either.

    When I first voted, I vote for DLP. In my young days, when possible I did vote independent.

    For most of my life, especially since Whitlam, I have voted Labor

    I am now a confirmed Labor voter.

    The older I get, the more I move away from the Liberal party.

    I do not believe there has or will be a time I would vote National Party.

    I have been a member of the Labor party since the 1980’s on and off.

    I did work with Your Rights at Work during the 2007 elections.

    Yes, there are some Liberal PM’s I do have some respect for.

    Mr. Menzies and Mr. Howard are not among them. Mr. Gorton and Mr. Fraser later after he left politics, I have respect for.

    From the late 1980’s I worked as a Public Servant for the NSW. I was active firstly in HAREA and then the PSA.

    During my earlier working life I was a member of the ETU and other minerals work unions. I was also a member of the Miscellaneous union when I was a school and factory cleaner.

    I had contact with Left wing unions through my personal life. I was present at the last big union fight on Cockatoo Island. I knew much about the NSW’s Painters and Dockers. That was an interesting time.

    TomM, I find it a little annoying to be written off as naive or having no knowledge of how politics or the unions work.

    I also belong to another union when I worked for the egg board, I cannot recall the name of the union.

    I joined in the Metal Union strikes of the 1960 and 70’s. I worked for big concerns such Ducons, who made electrical parts, some for the big TV industry we had at the time. I was mostly a process worker.

    On between the above I also worked as a cook, governess and car detailer. I had a go a making tennis courts, and driving the boss around.

    I was unable to be fussy, as I needed to earn money.

    I do not appreciate being told I know or have not had experience of jobs or unions. I do not like to be told I am naive.

    I might not be correct but I have not come to my views lightly.

    I feel that at my age, I have earn the right to hold the views I have without being abused or told I know nothing.

    I do know we have to let go of anger or hate. It does not hurt those who caused the hate. It only hurts us.

  87. Reb, I think that you will find if you look back that I am likewise not happy with the Gillard government’s ‘boat people’ policy. I also wrote a post saying that the asylum seekers were not the only victims but that it’s the poor Indonesian fishermen who are being conned into thinking that just a couple of years in an Australian jail is the only consequence.

    In my opinion Gillard stuffed it completely when she criticised the High Court ruling. She could have/should have used this as an opportunity. And I’ve stated same.

    At the moment the only boat people policy from BOTH sides of parliament seems to consist of where can we warehouse these people..shock, horror just in case they place their little brown or yellow toes on sacred Australian soil.

  88. Well I have let the rabbit out of the hat. I am probably a lefty, but I do not believe blindly so.

    I feel we have the right to support whoever we like.

    As long as we do not tell lies, we should be able to say what we like. Most on these sites do our best to source what we say.

    I am looking forward to the time when we can debate policies, not spend out time defending Labor from the media.

    The Insiders was little better today. There was much I do not agree with but it was debate.

    I have the feeling that most of us are not really that interested in talking politics but policies.

  89. “In my opinion Gillard stuffed it completely when she criticised the High Court ruling. ”

    Totally agree Min!

    It would be nice to be able to make that sort of observation without being labelled as someone who’s been seduced by the Murdoch lies and deception! 😉

  90. Min in answer to your question [wedge politics anyone ? ] :-

    Opposition open to migration law talks

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-04/opposition-open-to-migration-act-talks/2869890/?site=melbourne

    The Federal Opposition says it is willing to talk to the Government about changing Australian law to allow the offshore processing of asylum seekers.

    The Government is not ruling out amending the Migration Act, after today revealing it received legal advice that offshore processing would be difficult to implement, if not impossible, under current law.

    Solicitor-general Stephen Gageler’s advice was commissioned after the High Court ruled the Government’s Malaysia refugee swap deal to be invalid.

    Mr Gageler warns current law would not allow the re-opening of the detention centres on Papua New Guinea or the Pacific island nation of Nauru.

    “We don’t want the Government to use the High Court’s decision and the solicitor-general’s opinion, to drop offshore processing, because offshore processing is an essential part of any effective plan to stop the boats,” he said.

    and

    But Mr Howard says Ms Gillard should have simply accepted the Court’s decision.

    “We’ve now got a situation where the Prime Minister is questioning the intellectual consistency of the Chief Justice of the High Court, well that’s a very silly thing to do,” he said.

    Mr Bowen defends the Prime Minister, saying she was justified in making her comments.

    “That’s not a criticism it’s just a statement of fact,” he said.

    “If you compare what the Prime Minister said to what ministers in the previous government said when they lost High Court cases, there’s no comparison at all.”

    Yes, the Coalition A-G Darryl Williams was their man.

  91. Reb, it would be nice to say something like that and not have it used immediately to trash the PM. Criticism should keep to the facts and not be used to attack. Criticism should be to say there is a better way.

  92. Further to MPs ‘attacking’ the judiciary….

    THE COURT STRIKES BACK
    February 1998

    http://www.law4u.com.au/lil/ls_court.html

    The Attorney-General has his say

    Perhaps it started in August of last year, when the Federal Attorney-General, Daryl Williams spoke at a conference of the Australian Institute of Judicial Administration.

    No doubt Mr Williams would deny he fired the first shot, but let’s not quibble about who did what to whom. Whatever, the Attorney made his position quite clear: “The courts, in demanding that their role be respected, must also respect the role of Parliament”. It doesn’t take a genius to see that this is yet another of the unintended
    consequences of the endlessly debated High Court Wik decision.

  93. But yet again the double standards. The Howard government was notorious for criticising the judiciary and did everything it could to usurp it. There was some grumblings about it at the time but not much and not all the times his government jumped on the Courts.

    Now Gillard does it and the whole world must come crashing down and she has to go. Not only that she made a legitimate point in that one judge had ruled differently on a point than he had previously on the same point.

    Why the double standards?

  94. Barrackers don’t like rigorous criticism of their team, even when their policies fail.

    They only like to hand it out. Still, at least Adrian now acknowledges this.

  95. reb, I’ve read what Gillard said about the High Court decision and I’d hardly call it criticism or resort to ToM’s hyperbole, which leads me to believe that he hasn’t bothered to find out what she actually said. A criticism I have also levelled at him wrt the so-called carbon tax.

    She said she was disappointed with the decision and that the government would have to go back to square one (to precis). She also commented that French had made the opposite decision on the same matter previously. Hardly flaying him in a rage or even mildly critical, imo.

    Saying you’re disappointed is not a hanging or confected outrage a la ToM, offence, afaik. Plenty of people have publicly disagreed with or expressed disappointment at High Court decisions. AFAIK, it is not an act of cowardice or other hyperbolic emotive tosh as brayed by ToM.

    Bollocking Justice French or abusing him would be out of order and worthy of condemnation. That didn’t happen.

    The same goes for the so-called broken promise. She did no such thing. She said there would be no carbon tax in a government led by her, and went on to say that she favoured a carbon pricing scheme, evolving into an ETS. It’s on the record.

    And quelle horreur, that’s exactly what’s happening. No carbon tax, no lie and no broken promise.

    Sir Liealot is a different story. Has he not said that he will impose a carbon tax? Yet he is campaigning against the very thing he says he will do. A perfect example of a lie, a broken promise and utter hypocrisy. Why does this pass without comment from either the msm or characters like ToM?

    Liealot wants to be PM so badly he can’t sleep. He wants the job, he has to have the interview and be held to account.

    I’d be interested to know who these “leading Australian business figures” are. Wouldn’t be Twiggy Forrest, Clive Palmer and the unlovely Gina Rienehart, by any chance? I’ve read reports which say the opposite; business figures claiming to have had fruitful talks with the government.

  96. ToM, can you point me to where you have likewise criticised Tony Abbott..just in the name of being fair and balanced of course.

    I personally loathe and detest Abbott and think that he would be a nightmare Prime Minister given all of his Roman Catholic prejudices..but that’s just me. Of course on this blog my opinions and those of the Authors are not necessarily those of management..however I know that they come pretty damn close. 😉

  97. Jane, this might answer your question about leading figures:-

    Ita Buttrose weighs in on Julia Gillard’s dismal leadership ratings
    { where’s her neck ?….love the “Trust Me” yellow }

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ita-buttrose-weighs-in-on-julia-gillards-dismal-leadership-ratings/comments-e6frf7jo-1226085954686

    ITA Buttrose has demanded that Prime Minister Julia Gillard show strong leadership and call an election.

    In a blistering serve, the businesswoman blamed a lack of leadership for Julia Gillard’s dive in popularity and said she needed to tell the Greens and independents the party was over.

    The Herald Sun approached prominent Australian women for their opinions on how the country’s first female leader should turnaround her disastrous approval rating, which dropped to a record low of 28 per cent last month.

    Buttrose said Ms Gillard needed to be bold and go to the polls, following similar calls this week by businessmen John Symond, Gerry Harvey and John Singleton.

    “Australians are looking for strong leadership and because we have a minority Government with Labor continually having to capitulate to the wishes of the Greens and the independents, we are not getting it,” Buttrose said.

    “A true leader would take a risk; would be prepared to put her leadership on the line. I think the PM should tell the Greens and the independents the party’s over and then call an election.”

    And critics say the PM is a puppet !!

  98. (So natural has it become to rely on the consistency of polling reporting for orientation that the phenomenon of it, and its being pushed as a compelling ‘story’ by the media and others, almost becomes invisibled or normalised. Yet, what to make of the validity of a method of relentless peer-group pump-priming, either way, other than the remote possibility that it’s, at least partially, double-dipsticking itself.)

  99. She said there would be no carbon tax in a government led by her, and went on to say that she favoured a carbon pricing scheme, evolving into an ETS. It’s on the record.

    So what is the Carbon Tax scheduled for next July? Does that mean that she won’t be leading the government then?

    You are playing word games here … if a government “prices” carbon then it must apply a “tax” …

  100. TB this has been done to death.
    We don’t know what the question was that led the PM to say ‘there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead.”

    Yes that’s what she said, and it’s actually true if she was referring to ordinary average Australians. the tax as you know, I’m sure, is to be imposed on the biggest polluting companies, and the majority of Australians will be compensated, including many businesses.

  101. Metatron (for new and newish people he’s the bloke with the cross hatch gravatar who keeps changing his name). I think that it’s been done several times over how the standard methods of polling are becoming increasingly unreliable.

    Now this isn’t being an apologist, this is simply stating the fact that a substantial proportion of the under 35yrs demographic now no longer have land lines and so are via this exclusion are likewise excluded from being polled.

    It might be a worthwhile exercise if for example one of the main Polling Business organisations might compare a phone poll with an online poll. IF a phone poll is an accurate assessment of all opinions then an online poll should of course come within the +- factor.

  102. Min, I regularly post independent analysis and opinion. I offered some views on IR today.
    Perhaps you, like some others here, just presume.
    ———————–
    And the organisation that speaks on behalf of the judiciary was obviously delighted with the well informed views of Julia.

    “Judges attack ‘irresponsible’ PM”
    AUSTRALIA’S judges have launched a withering attack on Julia Gillard, branding her criticism of the High Court’s judgment on the Malaysia deal ”irresponsible” and her reflections on the Chief Justice ”extraordinary, unfair and curious”.

    The High Court is obviously loaded with Abbott barrackers.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/judges-attack-irresponsible-pm-20110902-1jqdd.html#ixzz1WyYhzoo6

  103. ‘…and went on to say that she favoured a carbon pricing scheme, evolving into an ETS. It’s on the record.’

    Link?

  104. Bacchus, my point is that the polls and Essential included provide no demographics..so what is it, 1,865 old f*rts living in Toorak?

  105. Pip, agreed about dodgy online polling..but surely if we can submit our Tax and our Census information online then there must be a way to ensure authenticity.

  106. el gordo, I’ve posted this several times, maybe you missed it.

    As I’m off to watch “Ned’s head” , I’ll leave you to find the relevent
    bits foryourself 🙂

    Speech: Julia Gillard, “Moving forward together on Climate Change”
    http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/speech–julia-gillard,–moving-forward-together-on/

    Please don’t swing back about the Citizen’s Assembly, which was blown out of the water. The PM has nevertheless been to various meetings to inform interested citizens.

  107. Pip, Ita sounds like a Liealot groupie. Do you think I’ve called it right?

    TB it’s not a carbon tax. It’s a price the 500 biggest polluters will pay for the pleasure of pouring extra CO2 and other pollutants into the atmosphere. Like a speeding fine, I suppose.

    At this stage the price is expected to be set @ $23/tonne. That is not a tax afaic, TB. I think it is you who is playing word games.

    The money collected will be used to compensate pensioners, low and middle income earners and assist existing business.

  108. Jane I think you’re spot on.

    * Firstly there was the TV series about Ita, and the Packers.

    * Then there was the gushing conversation on radio with a few younger women singing her praises.

    * Next came the “Trust Me” yellow shocker declaring that we must have an election as did John Symond, Gerry harvey and John Singleton and finally,

    *Ita announces that she’s been asked to stand for the Sydney mayoralty, and she has the backing of an unknown retired Sydney businessman.

    Is that a clever marketing exercise, or astro-turfing ?

  109. Yes Min – agree with that. Even with Essential, getting youngsters to be part of online polling panels (that have polls about all sorts of exciting things like banking, insurance, grocery shopping etc.) is nearly as difficult as getting that demographic to participate in a phone poll. Newspoll does release some limited demographic info though

  110. Thanx pip…on reading that speech there is little doubt she intended traveling this road, so don’t know why I voted for her. Must have been that news clip.

  111. el gordo, now I know you’re kidding ! You, voted for the PM, I don’t believe it !

    News is sliced and diced beyond recognition !!
    If the MSM had done their job and written just a few truthful lines about it there would be no argument, but none of them did which is strange don’t you think.
    They discuss among themselves and mass produce the same ‘news’ – unwashed tripe.
    The old foreigner does want regime change quickly because he does not want the NBN to spoil his own plans.

    Makes sense if you think about it !

  112. Pip @10.07pm, Singo was on board for Trust Me (if you have a hole the size of Uluru in your head) we have to have an election, along with Harvey & Symond. Unknown retired Sydney businessman? Hmmmm.

  113. Min, not many RC’s have Mr. Abbott’s prejudices, they have little to do with religion.

    I was bought up a RC but now have no religion, so I am not defending them.

    he is just a jerk. Expensive private schooling might have had more with his enlarged ego and head.

  114. Jane, the un-named business man may exist, or may be a red herring.

    Either way, they’re a very motley crew!

    Singo FGS !

  115. Cu, I agree, Abbott displays none of the traditional values of the R.C., but he does seem to adhere to the old Santamaria agenda, what little I remember of him.
    My idea of living the Catholic faith is demonstrated by the Joeys, that is unselfish, charitable and generous of spirit.

  116. “notorious for criticising the judiciary and did everything it could to usurp it.”

    ME, that is what off shore processing and excising of a greater part of our country was about.

    To deny all connected with asylums seekers access to the legal system.

    Mr, Howard and his followers have contempt for the law and done everything they could to get around the judiciary.

    Look at what happened when there was a new terror scare, we immediately loss a few more freedoms with new legislation bringing in more new laws.

    Look at the Liberals love of mandatory sentencing, over ruling the job of the courts.

    They find the legal system a nuisance.

    At the same time, they are quick to used it against the poor and working people.

  117. “Believe it or not, I actually want the Gillard govt to succeed, but it’s very difficult to keep cheering them on when there are so many st”

    Fair enough Reb, but why do you think the perception is that there are so many stuff ups.

    Are there really that many? Maybe there are many more successes which are being ignored. How many of the stuff ups really matter?

    Maybe if the lady was given a little free space, she might just have a chance.

    No one can operate efficiently under the pressure that is being put on her. I believe there is one thing that cannot be ignored, the lady has guts and is tough.

    Tell me of a government or PM that did not make mistakes or have things turn out wrong.

    Tell me of a business leader that was perfect.

  118. Cu, the ‘stuff-ups’ the opponents bang on about are set in stone by the media, but we both know they are not all stuff-ups.

    “Pink batts” get a regular run, yet the stats., show that the number of accidents was no different during the insulation program, and the four major accidents, fatalities, have I think, now all been through the Courts, one of them just this week.
    The plaintiffs were the owners of the businesses, not the government. No big headlines though !

    The BER, according to the Orgill Report did have some problems, some associated with the shortage of project managers in NSW, but generally, the Report was favourable.
    {what’s the bet someone will pop up and ask for a link ?
    Everywhere I go there are schools with lovely, brand new buildings, and I haven’t noticed any complaints in any of the local papers, excluding the ltd news publications.

    The asylum seeker “problem” makes me really cross though.
    both the major parties need to lift their game and stop politicising the issue.
    It would be much cheaper to process them onshore and the fact is that the majority are genuine.

    The numbers are miniscule.
    13,000 [approx.,] immigrants enter Australia every year.
    Of those 2% are asylum seekers, and of those, only .5% arrive by boat, the other 1.5% arrive by plane and live in the community.
    Many of the plane arrivals enter on a visa and apply for permanent residence after they arrive.

  119. “And critics say the PM is a puppet !!”

    A puppet of who or what?

    Yesterday it was bringing in bills for things we do not want.

    What will it be tomorrow.

    Minority governments are legit in this country and all over the world. We do not elect a government. We elect a local member, who get together with others to form the government. They remain the government while they have the numbers on the floor of the lower house.

    Political parties or PM’s are not mentioned in the Constitution.

    The Opposition is getting desperate. Wonder why they are rushing to get Mr. Howard’s asylum bill amended. Have they woken up to the fact, if they leave it until they get into government, they will not have the numbers to bring the change about. The Greens will never support it. Labor is unlikely to from Opposition.

    Do they realise that it is becoming likely that we are in danger of having a humane policy that is endorsed by the majority. Onshore processing and into the community as quickly as possible, is a likely outcome

    Maybe people are waking up to the fact that they do not like millions waste for no good return.

    I am sure it would be a stupid leader indeed that went to the polls when they did not have to when the polls are so bad.

    The government is performing well. It is not lack of authority or leadership that is the problems. The problems is that she us unpopular in the polls.

    Ms. Buttrose must want the Lord Mayoral position badly. She much be broke.

  120. “Ah, that’s for me to know and you to find out,’ she said.”

    I was under the impression that voters were entitled to know who the backers are, especially if money is involved.

  121. Cu, the “Trust Me yellow” lady is special apparently !
    Can’t say I much like the company she keeps though.

    Ms. Buttrose must want the Lord Mayoral position badly. She much be broke.

    Either that or she’s on a hefty retainer.

  122. el gordo, would you now agree that the alleged lie did not get her votes. anyone that was that strong against a carbon pricing mechanism would not have miss what was being said. I am at a lost who they would have voted for.

    I suspect many voted for the Greens because Labor was not strong enough on the issue, that it would have cost her votes.

  123. “to adhere to the old Santamaria agenda, what little I remember of him.”

    I do remember him. You used to see him on TV, along with Mr. Baume.

    I was stupid enough to think they both made sense.

    They did sound good, appealed to the ordinary people. Sadly I know now how wrong they were.

    I have come a long way since my youth.

    Now, how the highly intelligent and educated Mr. Abbott supports his view, I would never know.

  124. Pip, most of what you listed belong to Rudd.

    The Opposition is unable or unwilling to find new examples.

    I suspect this government is one of the mostly tightly run outfits since Federation.

  125. Yeh, let’s pick up the phone…

    Nauru
    http://www.ausaid.gov.au/country/country.cfm?CountryId=21

    AusAID country program estimated official development assistance (ODA) 2011–12: $18 million
    Total ODA 2011–12*: $26.2 million

    * Includes cash paid each year in line with the Nauru Settlement Treaty, in addition to amounts through the AusAID Country Program, other regional programs and support through other Government agencies including the Australian Federal Police.

    Nauru imports almost all it’s food and water, and is barely able to look after itself.

  126. Cu, the fact that those things were a feature of the Rudd government seems to have slipped the tiny minds of the MSM and the Coalition.
    I agree that this government has been very tightly run, and Independent Tony Windsor has said so on a number of occasions only to be side-swiped for his trouble.
    Minority governments are very common in Europe but the enemies of this government seem to think it’s the worst kind of mistake, even illegitimate ! Not.
    That’s democracy, that’s how the cards fell, and Tony Abbott showed himself to be incapable of selling his policies to the cross benchers, and even tried to palm off his dodgy policy costings. Bad luck.

  127. How come Richo pops up in two different camps?

    Fork in the road to Labor’s home base

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/fork-in-the-road-to-labors-home-base-20110904-1js8m.html#ixzz1Wzudprvo

    Like a few people in the Labor Party, Nick Bolkus is growing tired of Graham Richardson talking the show down.

    So much so that last week, as the now-ubiquitous Richo was in full flight foretelling the demise of the government and predicting Julia Gillard would be dumped in 10 months, Bolkus sent a text message.

    ”How come no one believed anything Richo said when he was a
    minister, but they believe everything he says now?”

    On one side is the old stamping ground of the Labor Party and on the other, where he does his ‘consulting’, is the big end of town

  128. Tony Abbott and Andrew Robb differ on Coalition spending cuts

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/tony-abbott-and-andrew-robb-differ-on-coalition-spending-cuts/story-fn7x8me2-1226129281582

    OPPOSITION finance spokesman Andrew Robb has contradicted Tony Abbott over how much government spending the Coalition could cut if it was in power.

    Mr Robb warned every portfolio was open to scrutiny in a bid to identify up to $70 billion in savings.

    Last month Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said $70 billion was a “fanciful figure” being spun by Labor.

    “It’s plucked from the air by government ministers,” Mr Abbott told ABC 24.

    Yesterday Mr Robb told Channel 10’s Meet the Press program the figure was real.

    “It’s not a furphy. We came out with the figure,” Mr Robb said.

    “It is a furphy to call it a ‘black hole’. That is just Labor’s spin again to avoid any discussion about why we are looking at $70 billion as the sort of out-marker.”

    To work out how to get to that out-marker, Mr Robb said no section of government was sacred.

    Mr. Robb also said “the Coalition would have to wait and look at up to two Budgets before the 2013 election to finalise spending decisions.

    So he’s not really expecting an election next month then.

  129. Pip @11.03pm, Liealot displays NO values.

    Minority governments are deeply troubling to the Liars Party, the msm and notables like Ms Buttrose, it seems. They’re illegitimate, apparently according to Sir Liealot. Unfortunately for these fine upstanding citizens, the Constitution doesn’t agree.

    CU @12.18am, those judges are remarkably thin skinned. Just as well she didn’t say she was really disappointed, they’d be under psychiatric care for years, the poor dears.

  130. Deborah Cameron on ABC 702 is starting to talk sense. She has an interview with Steve Dougherty and John Brown.

    Do not know if there is a pod cast available.
    They discussed.
    Richardson, he has lived off Labor all his life and should shut up. If a member of Labor, he should be expelled.

    It is believed that tomorrow’s budget will be in deficit and 10% of PS to be sacked.

    Labor bought in a surpluses for 16 years.

    Very little new infrastructure spending.

    There was a overnight single issue poll that showed on asylum seekers. What is not getting he same coverage, the fact only 38% support the job the Opposition is going. Many of the 78% do not like the actions that Labor are coming up with. The Malaysian Solution was not popular. No one can read into the 78%, that they are in support of Nauru. Many just want the issue solved according to our legal and moral obligations. They are not interested in solutions as to sending off to Nauru at great cost, to bring them to Australia down the track. It does not make sense.

    I believe that Mr. Abbott needs to take a step back, he just might be the one that is wedged. One angry comment I heard from a 702 listener, a very angry comment, who does Mr. Abbott think he is wanting to change the law to take away peoples rights.

    When most polls on this subject come up with a figure of 38% who do not care what happens as long as they are not allowed in. Many of these say sink the boats.

    Security of the borders was mentioned, but I have not noticed that many are bringing up this argument.

    I believe most are saying, a large majority is process on shore and resettle as quickly and cheaply as possible.

    I hope the faith some have in the PM is rewarded by an announcement, that after much discussion and thought, the only humane option the government has that we will be dumping off shore processing.

    Asylum seekers will be only kept in detention while the initial security and health assessment are carried out. We will be investing money and resources to see that this happens.

    We will continue to work with those in this region to developed mechanism to deal the boat grade.

    Matter put to bed. Let Mr. Abbot rave.


  131. “I hope the faith some have in the PM is rewarded by an announcement, that after much discussion and thought, the only humane option the government has that we will be dumping off shore processing.

    Matter put to bed. Let Mr. Abbot rave.”

    yep, I agree. that would be the diginified response…

  132. “Funniest post of the year!

    Min, I regularly post independent analysis and opinion ToM”

    TB, do you ever read what people say or do your put the search engine through, find a word that supports your slogans or innuendo and launch into the attack mode.

    Why come here, if you do not want to hear what being said by others.

    No one here expects you to agree or like what is said.

    They do not expect to be labelled liars or fools. That appears to be your response to anything that doesn’t fit in with your rigid, narrow view of politics in this country.

  133. “Nauru imports almost all it’s food and water, and is barely

    The island has been ravish by the mining and tourism is not even an answer.

    Surely we can find better ways of helping them.

  134. CU, TB is independently minded in politics. He is an ALP supporter, who appears to get disillusioned with this government. Who could blame him?

    He enjoys chiding me, and I think it is intended in good spirit. Though he is likely to deny any good spirit.

    We all know TB is a kind hearted duffer.

  135. Lets remind ourselves what began Mr. Rudd’s downward path. Action’s that bought about massive downward path in the polls.

    “…In late April 2010 Kevin Rudd took two steps that in combination would bring him down: the postponement of the emissions trading scheme and the announcement of his government’s intention to introduce a mining industry super profits tax…”

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2869942.html

  136. Anyone bankrupted yet? Anyone paying th levy? Has the sky fallen in?

    “When Hurricane Irene pummelled the US East Coast last week, some Queenslanders probably felt a sense of déjà vu for the natural disasters that demolished swathes of their state earlier this year.

    $2.80 a week to help these guys doesn’t seem that unreasonable. Picture: Lyndon Mechielsen
    Just like the floods and Cyclone Yasi, Hurricane Irene inflicted a terrible human and financial cost on the US. The death toll from Irene stands at 45 and the damage bill is at least $US7-10 billion.

    But they wouldn’t just be feeling déjà vu over the disaster damage. If they’ve been paying attention to international news, they’d also be feeling it over the political reaction to Irene in the US.

    Disaster relief is shaping up as a new political battleground over there. When the White House said they needed a few billion dollars for disaster relief, President Obama’s Republican opponents said the disaster should be paid for by cutting back the budget elsewhere. Which many Democrats disagree with.

    The same thing happened in the wake of our disasters earlier this year, when the Opposition Leader was battling that policy the Government had. Hey, what was that thing called again?

    Ohhhhhhhh. The flood levy! Remember the flood levy? Once upon a time it was a Big Deal.

    Earlier this year we heard a lot about how much the flood levy was going to hurt us. Alan Jones squawked about how “stupid” it was. Neil Mitchell told the PM there was “massive opposition” to it and the Opposition Leader said she’d face a voter backlash over it. The United Retail Federation said the flood levy would slow the economy, kill jobs and destroy households who were hanging on “by a very thin thread”.

    That didn’t happen. …”

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/we-shouldnt-be-scared-of-flood-of-political-fear/?from=scroller&pos=1&referrer=article&link=text

  137. CU – read TB’s comment again. he was laughing at ToM, not Min! I think an apology to TB for that undeserved spray would be in order about now…

  138. A clear misunderstanding, I’ve known TB and the Minister for a number of years and I am certain that he’s fine. I’ve never known TB to be inclined to tanties due to misunderstandings.

  139. CU with the poll showing 78% against Labor……..
    The main report on this poll appears to be the Courier Mail and it appears to have only 1 issue.
    So who commissioned the poll, when, where, and what is the demographic?
    All that was on the radio was the headline “Newspoll” blah blah blah.
    As also reported on the radio a comment by Sarah Palin,
    “Polls (poles) are for hookers and skiers”

    I cannot believe I used a comment by Palin , but with the number of headline polls it seems appropriate.

  140. Bob Santamaria!!!!!!! Shudder.

    Last month Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said $70 billion was a “fanciful figure” being spun by Labor.

    Er, is that another lie, or don’t you remember what you say from one minute to the next? Unfortunately for Liealot, it’s all on the record with he Sloppy and Barnyard shooting their mouths off about it. 12,000 public servants getting the flick, Climate Change Dept scuppered and so on! Bloody hell!

    reb @ 10.03am, I also favour a raised middle digit somewhere in the proceedings. All jokes aside, is there any alternative to offshore processing, now, taking the recent High Court decision into account?

    The government has said it puts any offshore processing in doubt, so let’s just toss that millstone, and do the right thing.

    Pip, @12.22m, could be the only smart and insightful thing Palin has ever said.

  141. “CU with the poll showing 78% against Labor……..”

    What it does not say why they are against Labor’s action.

    It does not follow that the same people support the Coalition.

    What is more telling is the small 38% for Mr. Abbott’s ability to handle the matter. That is low, when most polls say about 30% or more consistently say they do not want them and are happy to see these people drown.

    Now you and I might be among the 78 %, for entirely opposition reasons, it is as Senator Brown said, a dishonest poll.

  142. Bacchus..I suspect that you might have come here for a hug too..after all this blog is only about recipes and knitting patterns. 😉

  143. Hugs are always good Min 🙂

    I thought most had stopped taking ToM seriously back in the Blogocracy days – he’s nothing more than an annoying source of fun these days…

  144. For the third time:

    It seems I need to repeat the question…

    Pip – would you care to point out exactly where I have “trashed” Australians For an Honest Media??

    I presume that in the absence of a satisfactory explanation an apology might be in order…

  145. Reb, we’re just ignoring you…. 😉 Don’t worry, Pip will get around to answering you in her own good time.

  146. Bacchus, I must admit that I do enjoy ToM’s Friday Footy Tips..I see that he’s given up predicting Port to win. Whoops better not mention the footy, the boss will be sure to notice..


  147. “Pip will get around to answering you in her own good time.”

    Is that a fact…?

    On the other hand, maybe Pip will come to the realisation that “she just made shit up” and issue an apology for doing so.

    I wouldn’t thought it would be too much to ask.


  148. “Did you use AFAHM to promote your blog, on which you then criticised the Cafe ? ”

    Not to my knowledge.

    You were the one who made the allegation. It’s up to you to prove it.

    Otherwise you’re just “making shit up”.

  149. Hey Pip, OMG I hope that he’s seen that one. Typical isn’t it just when he doesn’t get to see it that’s when Port wins.

    Migs sends his warm regards to all and says to let everyone know that he is reading it all and taking it all on board.

  150. Last comment Reb, I know what I read and it was poor form.
    Let it go before you give yourself an ulcer.

    There will be no further comments from me on this subject.

  151. So Pip again acknowledges that she’s just making it up!

    I think she posted a comment recently that I was fibbing, but then declined to offer any clarification or justification.

    Making it up is much easier that providing justification!

  152. Min, it did look strange for the top team to be so ineffective at this time of the year, but Geelong does have some wise heads on their side, still odd things happen in the sporting world.

  153. ToM, as Admin Pip has called it. As Tim Dunlop would have said, All comments are to be on topic, no lengthy cut and pastes and provide a link. I’m sure that you’ll remember Tim saying those…

  154. Bacchus, ToM was much more fun when he had the quins to entertain him. They must have given him the flick because he’s turned into a Neil clone. Must be all that time he spends at the Liars Party Crapaganda Camp.

    Pip, I am absolutely certain that the Pies threw that game against Geelong.

    You better hope so, Min. lol

  155. Pot. Meet kettle.

    Same goes to you Tom. No further discussion.
    Argument for arguments sake is a waste of precious time.

  156. ToM..get it. Pip is Admin, she has the full support of myself..myself currently being head honcho.

    ToM if you have something to add which is on topic, then please feel free to do so.

  157. Why Pip? About the only time we’ve had an exchange is when you suggested I was fibbing. You couldn’t justify the comment.

    Then you’ve verballed reb. If you want to skulk away from justification of your comments, good for you!

    It’s just that it is evidence of your inclination to make stuff up about other contributors.

  158. Right Min, Pip suggests dishonesty, then verbals someone. Then we should all just ignore that!

    Hilarious, it’s why I love the group love in blogs!

  159. Bye ToM. If you don’t like it here, then go.. I’ve called it. Bye ToM. You however are more than welcome to come and contribute ON TOPIC. No more off topic FINIS, THE END. BYE.

  160. ‘Anyone can speak Troll,’ said Fred dismissively, ‘all you have to do is point and grunt.’

    “Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire” – J.K. Rowling (2000)

  161. On topic?

    I thought that the topic was that “pip just made shit up” and then couldn’t justify it..

    Still watiting for an explanation…

    This place has turned to shiit ever since Migs and joni ditched it…

    It’s just become an old women’s collective – a bit like TPS, maybe you should think about joining forces?

    Then you could defeat that nasty Mister Wabbit Togewether!

  162. Reb, if the place has turned to shit then why do you keep bothering to come over here all of the time. Bye Reb….

  163. “why do you keep bothering to come over here”

    Because Migs wrote to me and told me that the reason he set the Cafe up was to be a forum for young gay men and other other vulnerable youth to seek support.

    What’s your excuse?

  164. Pip seems to have started it again.

    Really, she just cannot justify her comments, a nodding acquaintance with facts.

  165. Ah well reb, I go back a few more years than that. If you don’t like this blog then don’t come here.

    I’m sorry gentlemen, but I’m going to have to call time. We have been subjected to all sorts of baiting and this is not what this blog is about. Now you can post further along this line and I will be forced to delete the comments. I have never deleted a comment in my life except a couple of crummy ones of my own but I cannot let the blog be overrun by constant harping comments.

    You called it a long time ago reb..TB has new teeth and Min remains the moderating influence.

  166. “Bye Reb….”

    I take it, that by that dismissive comment, that you no longer wish me to be around.

    And that’s fine, if we are to assume that you have assumed ownership of the blog that Migs set up.

    You know, the one that he told me was one set up to help depressed and sucidal gay youth.

    I wonder if “bye reb” is the sort of sentiment that Migs would’ve wanted given our long standing friendship eh Carol?

  167. Steven, I’m afraid I’m it until Migs comes back. Yes of course I remember. I believe that I’ve written a few topics on gay issues myself.

    That reminded me of the old Blogocrats when you used to get miffed when people went off topic because of course we were used to Tim’s Blogocracy. It used to be my job to get people back on topic.

  168. Why? Pip acknowledges that she just makes it up!

    Not bad coming from an Anal & Dolt regurgitater! I wish you had even a nodding acquaintance with the facts.

  169. “It used to be my job to get people back on topic.”

    Is that a fact? I never knew you were the moderator at blogocracy.


    “Ah well reb, I go back a few more years than that. If you don’t like this blog then don’t come here.

    Lovely welcome. Where did it all go so horribly wrong. Perhaps when “the left” decided that there was no room for dialogue with “the right”.

    That certainly seems to have happened here and at TPS…

    For one thing, I never thought that as a gay man, I never thought I’d be told to leave a forum that was speciifically set up to assist vulnerable gay youth.

    But there you go…

  170. (for what it is worth) I think reb’s contribution to keeping a range of diverse people willing to contribute to a couple of blogs deserves some consideration. I think Min can get a over protective of people here that bandy about quite questionable comments.

    Min should do a little more to moderate some here, even if she is aligned with their political orientation. She should have encouraged Pip to retract the comments she made to reb.
    ————-
    I only object to dishonesty and distortion CU.

  171. Reb, I am sure that Migs will be impressed that in his absence, you heavy the friend he trusted to keep things going until he is well enough to take over again.

    A lovely way to thank a friend who went out of his way to be kind.

    It is a shame he cannot depend on his friends to take care of things while he is away.

    What is the problem

    Maybe if Min knew, she could fix it.

    If you want to get even with me, my name if Florence. It seems calling people by their Christian name is a form of insult, other wise why use it.

  172. “I only object to dishonesty and distortion CU.”

    Problem is that much of the dshonesty and distortion is only seen by you.

  173. Reb, are you saying we should not be here. I am not sure that fits in with Migs inviting us to come it.

    Maybe Migs is delusional in thinking he set the site up and pays the costs, that he may own it.
    Reb, I have news for you all, we are not going away.. We will be staying, while Migs says it is all right.

  174. “It seems calling people by their Christian name is a form of insult, other wise why use it.

    Carol did it first. Why don’t you challenge her?

  175. “For one thing, I never thought that as a gay man, I never thought I’d be told to leave a forum that was specifically set up to assist vulnerable gay youth.”

    Reb, you remind me of the time when I was working. It was not usual; for one or two Indian men to call racism everytime things went amiss.

    I, along with my boss found ourselves facing racism charges,

    My Irish boss married to an Indian woman, with two beautiful half caste daughters and me, having two beautifu part Aboriginal did not have much trouble defending ourselves. Within a couple of minutes, he realised his mistake.

    Reb, you a now playing a dirty card, using your sexuality, as he did racism..

    Sorry, I m not impressed. I do have a lesbian daughter and gay grandson.

    I would be disappointed if they tried a similar stunt, not that they would, they have too much pride.

  176. Carol did it first. Why don’t you challenge her?

    Chill pill time reb?

    reb @ 9:17 pm

    I wonder if “bye reb” is the sort of sentiment that Migs would’ve wanted given our long standing friendship eh Carol?

    Min @ 9:28 pm

    Steven, I’m afraid I’m it until Migs comes back.

  177. “Carol did it first. Why don’t you challenge her?”

    Reb, how old are you. If I did not know better, I would say about six.

    Many on these sites use old Christian names when they are attacking others. Adrian is one that comes to mind.

    I suggest it is time for all to go and have a nap.

    Yes. she did use your name. I am not too sure she meant to. She sounded as she was frustrated with you.

    I do hope that Migs is not reading the above. I have a feeling he deserves better.

    Does anyone care?

  178. Isn’t it strange that the trouble makers attack this site while the owner Miglo is away on holidays …

    TomM, I’m not apologising to you or Reb.
    If you want to parrot the Dolt and Anal, fine, but don’t get so upset when someone challenges their lies.

  179. Catching up, the only ones who don’t care about the Cafe are Reb and TomM.
    Miglo deserves much better and might I suggest that Reb and Tom take their venom back to GT.

    The Cafe makes everyone welcome and mutual respect is the usual routine, apart from the two whose undies are in a tangle today.

    Let’s hope tomorrow brings a sunnier attitude….

  180. ‘Yes. she did use your name. I am not too sure she meant to. She sounded as she was frustrated with you.’

    That’s also my memory of the discussion.

  181. What happened to this comment?…

    ” TomM, I’m not apologising to you or Reb.”

    I had no expectation that you would. It is sufficient that you have been unable to justify either comment.

  182. Hello from Rome. I have a few minutes of free WiFi so I thought I’d drop into the Cafe. I’ve only read a few comments but I detect angst. Time doesn’t allow me to read them all.

    I’d like to think we’re all friends and when I get the chance to drop in again I’d hope the friendships have resumed.

    Now if you don’t mind I’m going to have a beer. I’ve been walking around in 800 degree heat and if I don’t get a cold beer I’ll shake somebody.

  183. Greetings Miglo, enjoy that beer. Just a storm in a teacup and a couple of pairs of underdunkers in a tangle.
    The Cafe is 99% just fine 🙂

  184. “The prime minister said Europe was a pioneer in reducing carbon emissions having established an ETS six years ago.

    Advertisement: Story continues below “Both Australia and the EU recognise that carbon markets are the most cost-effective way of reducing greenhouse gases and creating clean energy jobs,” Ms Gillard told reporters.

    “The president and I have agreed today to establish senior officials talks to discuss economy-to-economy measures we can jointly undertake to link our emissions trading schemes at the appropriate time in the future.”

    The leaders also discussed global economic challenges, trade liberalisation, and establishing a treaty-level agreement between Australia and the EU.

    Mr Barroso praised Ms Gillard’s plan to price carbon.

    “Australia’s decision to put a price on carbon emissions in our view is an important step,” he said.

    The European Commission president said a price on carbon was the “most cost effective way” to attack climate change and was a “great green business opportunity.”

    Mr Barroso also said the European Commission had sought a mandate from its 27 member states to negotiate a cooperation framework treaty with Australia.

    He said the mandate could be signed next month…..”

  185. Come on guys, Migs is a happily married man and there will be no bum pinching on our watch.

    Yony of ‘bumchum’ fame is in Paris and throughly enjoying himself.

  186. “Jane it would serve him right if someone pinches his derriere…isn’t that what happens in Rome ??”

    I don’t know about Rome. When I was young, it was common in Parramatta Road, Leichhardt, Sydney. Very embarrassing .

  187. Pip, I don’t know about derriere pinching, but the food’s pretty good. And I’m dark on Migs, how dare he be enjoying a Roman holiday when we’re stuck at home? Damn and blast the fellow!

    Min, I think you should retain custody of the keys to the cellar.

    el gordo, I agree our buttocks should not be assaulted. Now a delicious meal and fine wine………

    CU, funnily enough, I had my bum pinched in Sydney by a US sailor, many years ago, when it was probably worth pinching. lol

  188. The only things that get pinched in Rome these days are wallets and purses.

    Must dash. It’s almost 7:30 am and the coach is about to leave for Florence.

  189. Pingback: Acting from belief « Hieronymous the Anonymous

Leave a Comment

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s