Carbon Tax: end of the road?

For months now we have been told and specifically by Tony Abbott that once in power he will “ditch” the carbon tax, loudly bleating that he wants a new election. This clearly is not going to happen, and why should it as there is certainly nothing to be gained for anyone – no benefit for the government who needs all the time it can get to enact it’s reforms – no benefit for the Independents who would lose their positions of influence should the LNP form government – not the Greens who as they are fully aware, are unlikely to have any joy in trying to negotiate with an Abbott-led government. And there may indeed be those in the Liberal Party who would like some extra time as well, and Turnbull and Hockey come to mind.

Today an article by Tom Arup looks at a discussion paper by the Australia Institute of possible scenarios as to how a potential Abbott-led government could “ditch” the carbon tax. As a starting point it is highly unlikely that the Greens would negotiate with Abbott to remove the carbon tax. In June Bob Brown stated categorically, in fact a “rolled gold guarantee” that he would protect the carbon tax all the way. Here we are also assuming that the Greens would retain their position in the Senate following a election, my own reasoning being that Australians tend not to want all power to reside with one political party by having control of both houses of parliament.

The Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, has said on several occasions he would take the country to a double dissolution poll – sparking a joint sitting of the lower and upper house of Parliament and likely to give the Coalition the numbers needed to dump the tax – if required. The Coalition disputes the institute’s suggestions. The opposition spokesman on climate action, Greg Hunt, said: ”This issue will be resolved well before 2016. Labor will risk its political future if it ignores the will of the people at the election.

However and of course, if Abbott decided to hold yet another election by producing somewhere along the way a DD there again is absolutely no guarantee that this subsequent election would hand Abbott power in the Senate. The Australia Institute on the other hand argues that:

…it could take until 2018 for the Coalition’s direct action policy to fully come into effect and begin reducing emissions, if dumping the carbon tax is held back until 2016.

”As the length of time around the uncertainty [on carbon pricing] grows, so does the cost,” the report says. ”If the Coalition pursues its current commitments to roll back the carbon price this could lead to five or more years of uncertainty followed by more uncertainty on a post-2020 emissions reduction mechanism,” the report says.

A senior economist at the Australia Institute, Matt Grudnoff, said draft carbon price legislation released by Labor had been ”proofed” to ensure the industry’s obligation to pay the carbon tax – due to begin in the middle of next year – cannot be removed without new legislation.

The Coalition would have to work through several years of parliamentary process to build a double dissolution election trigger to dump the carbon tax via a joint-sitting of Parliament and replace it with its direct action climate change policy.”

And Tony Abbott’s response?

Mr Abbott has warned industry not to buy the permits because a Coalition government would not honour them.

No surprises there and probably typical of Abbott’s attitude, in fact it doesn’t take too much of a cynic to ponder the implications of the words “honour” and Tony Abbott in the same sentence.

Update from Australia Network News: A spokeswoman for one of the venues hosting a truck protest in the Australian capital Canberra says only 200 vehicles have arrived when around 3,000 were expected.

163 comments on “Carbon Tax: end of the road?

  1. Last night my brother summed up Tony Abbott: “If an election was held tomorrow and Tony Abbott won, in a year’s time we’d ‘still’ have a carbon tax”.

    I can’t argue with that.

  2. Whilst the right wing media relentlessly attack Thomson they (deliberately overlook this).

    THE Victorian Liberals paid at least $145,000 in legal fees to help senior government minister David Davis defend himself in a legal battle against the former state secretary of the Labor Party.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/…/…bills-20110504-1e8eo.html

    Davis also used his government office for personal business.

    I’m sure they would not have to look far to find many more examples both State and Federal, Liberal and Labor. Let us not forget Abbott took two years to declare some of his pecuniary interests he was required to under regulations and only did so because the media found out.

  3. Min
    Regarding the Abbott circus convoy, the report last night on the news from SE QLD was the following. While claiming that hundreds of trucks would travel to Canberra from SE QLD the number that left for the capital was 11 and a couple of them turned around after only a few hours and decided to go home.

    I hope some carbon tax supporters are out there counting the actual numbers so we get a true count in comparison to the pro carbon tax rally being held today at Old Parliament House.

    If an election is called on the basis of a couple of hundred vehicles then the coalition better get used to early elections as well, as a precedent would make our election system as unstable as Italy.

    ME

    The media also seem to forget the number of MPs that have been found guilty of wrongfully claiming travel costs over the years. There are many coalition cheer squads demanding that Thompson be treated like an employee in a prviate company and be sacked. If this is applied to all politicians our parliament would have at least 65 less of the current MPs from both sides of politics. In my opinion there are no degrees of honesty and if Thompson is to go and probably he should, then so should all the MPs who wrongfully claimed expenses from the taxpayers trough, the first to be Peter Fisher. In addition the caolition cheer squad claim that theft by a senator form a shop is different as it was not part of her job. Very few private companies are happy to retain an employee who has been charged with a criminal record of theft, as these days our actoins outside employment times are also expected to be exemplary or dismissal looms.

  4. Sorry for parroting what Bacchus had already posted on the Open Thread in regards to trucks form SE QLD. I ahve not had the time to read all comments.

  5. Roswell, then your brother is most definitely in agreement with the Australia Institute – Labor have very cleverly organised the bill/s so that they cannot be removed without new legislation…and the likelihood that the Libs could get this new legislation through the Senate is zip, zilch and zero. This I dare say would be the DD trigger..but as I mentioned there are absolutely no guarantees that a DD election would produce the desired results for the Libs.

    Matt Grudnoff, said draft carbon price legislation released by Labor had been ”proofed” to ensure the industry’s obligation to pay the carbon tax – due to begin in the middle of next year – cannot be removed without new legislation.

  6. The official trucking body and the Farmers Association have both said they are not supporting the convoy or what ever it is. The say that the aim of the convoy is unconstitutional.

    I noticed that Mr. Abbott spent the night with them.

    It started off demanding the GG call an election, now they are demanding a DD.

    They remind me of children throwing a tantrum. If they are so sure they are correct, why not wait. I suspect they believe the political climate ill change before then and they are not game to take the risk.

  7. Min, a very good summing up of what is happening today. I noticed that we have the reds under the ed back as well.

    Did I get it right or is it my imagination that Ms. Mirabella was out seeking signatures for a petition re the sexist language used in parliament. I suggest the lady remember, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

    The lady is genuinely upset about being called names. This occurred in one of the most abusive responses I have heard to MPI speeches I have heard by the lady.

    lady=sarcasm

  8. “The media also seem to forget the number of MPs that have been found guilty of wrongfully claiming travel costs over the years. There are ”

    One Queensland MP is a serial offender.

  9. The man has not been convicted of any offence. He has not been declared bankrupt.

    Like the demand for a DD,there are no grounds to sack him.

    Allegations are just that, they are not facts.

    Mr. Thomson could retire from the Labor Party and remain in parliament. He is put in the parliament by his local electorate. Only they can dismiss him.

    It is not in the PM power to do so.

  10. CU @8.42am..it is indeed the GG who issues the writs (s32 of the Consitution) but it has long been an Australian convention that it is the Prime Minister who advises the GG as to when an election is to be held. I personally cannot see Quentin Bryce siding with a bunch of disgruntled and most likely misinformation truck drivers.

  11. I can understand why these people won’t talk to the abc, they ask horrible questions, like, is the organiser a liberal party member, and does he believe that AGW is a front for a one world governemnt.

    I reckon some of the people who considered joining in might have been turned off by what the organiser actually believes.

    [audio src="http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/newsradio/audio/20110822-patel.mp3" /]

    I also heard on news 24 that pattel has’ cut the convoy size’ back down to around 160 (although others are still expected. I’m guessing he is frntically calling local operators to try and get a few trucks on the road. I wonder how many ‘ptotest’ trucks will just be guys paid to go and drive around town for the day?

  12. Tom, my thoughts too..or ordered to if they’re company men. It could be interesting to see the names on the trucks to see if they are independent contractors or not. Perhaps we could send Migs out to have have a look. 😀

    From: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/convoys-hit-canberra/2265581.aspx

    Police say they escorted fewer than 200 vehicles in the official Convoy of No Confidence this morning….

    The first wave of vehicles, which was to have left at 5.15am, was cancelled. There were 64 in the second wave and 106 in the third, which was on its way back to Exhibition Park shortly after 7.30am.

    So far there have been 170 escorted vehicles in total across two convoys in a procession around Parliament House and through Canberra.

    Delays have been expected on major roads as trucks, recreation vehicles and caravans are driven around Parliament House and then to staging points at EPIC and Canberra Stadium, but so far the streets are looking no busier than usual.

    Umm..caravans and recreational vehicles? So just how many of the 200 are actually trucks….

  13. Min

    I have a funny feeling that the number of trucks was very minimal so the organiser has sought help from the few convoy drivers families and parents and grand parents to drive anything possible to Canberra. More trucks drive through Coonabarabran every hour than the number of total vehicles in the so called massive convoy protest.

  14. A Canberran friend wrote that she got to work in record time as the roads were deserted, suspecting that many, many people took the day off. The publicity for this event has been very concerning for Canberrans. I just checked news.com: where is the publicity now? It’s a flop, so there is none.

  15. Min

    A whole heap of promised noise and the result, a few screaming extremists in a couple of trucks and a few SUVs and Caravans.

    Tonmy Abbott is making himself look very foolish to many who are sick to death of this type of tactic. He will always have the loyalty of the rusted on supporters just like the ALP does. But the middle voters are getting sick of the daily negative rhetoric which is now affecting our economy and standing overseas for nothing less than political opportunism.

    Any info on the pro carbon rally at Old Parliament House yet ? Or is that going to have no reporting as well.

  16. Roswell, I’m certain that Abbott will come up with one of his usual excuses… that there low numbers are but representative of “a surging wave of discontest”..or similar.

  17. Sorry Shane. I can see where I may have been confusing, as it looked as though I was following on fom your comment re fizzer. Note to self; read previous comments before posting.

  18. Roswell, you are quite often confusing but we love you anyway. 😉

    Shane, it wouldn’t be too difficult would it. Hey I can see a topic coming on. What about a 2 sentence ‘script’ for Tony Abbott. Waddya recon?

  19. Sky commentator: Hey I think that I can see a coupl’a more trucks coming.

    They’re probably delivering horse manure for the local store..or don’t they have horse manure in Canberra. 😀

  20. No Min, apparently the Livery Stable closed down some time ago but there’s word that it’ll reopen, along with the telegraph station if Abbott gets hold of power.

    Does anybody know Morse Code? Your employment propects might receive a huge boost.

    Can anybody ride a horse?

  21. I saw a report on ABC News Breakfast a few minutes ago, where the “organiser” was asked what their beef is? His pathetic response was straight from the Smuggles Set talking points book, ie a minority government is against the laws of God and Nature and ‘cos the Independents and that rotten Bob Brown (who are running the government, btw) won’t let Smuggles have his way.

    Then some conducted foot stamping, followed by Tony told us he wants an election and it’s not fair.

    In a nutshell, as ably summarised by every commenter on this thread, a bullshit rally staged by a Liberal stooge! He should get a proper job!

  22. I used to be able to ride a horse Roswell, haven’t done this lately though…I don’t know that my derrier could take the pounding these days.

    I can do Dacomb shorthand and I can crochet..these ancient skills might indeed be useful should Abbott make it as far as the next election.

  23. Daughter and I had a discussion on carbon pricing etc on the weekend. The consensus was that the opposition is devoid of talent and integrity and in daughter’s words are “stupid heads”.

    She was also very vocal about middle class welfare and how at least one of her friends thinks she and her fiance should get it because they’ve got a big mortgage, work hard and earn well over$150k/annum. Apparently, this makes them the deserving poor!

    Daughter’s response unprintable! Glad I brung her up right. lol.

  24. The GG does not have the power to call an election under the Constitution. It was Malcolm Fraser that called the election in 1975.

    The GG at that time at because money bills could not be passed and the government was running out of money.

    Fraser went back to parliament and the money bills were passed. He immediately called an election.

    I am not too sure what would have happened if Mr. Daley was able to a no confidence motion in Mr.. Fraser on the floor of the lower house.

    There is still no agreement that the GG acted legally.

    There can be no DD. I also believe at this time, there cannot be a half senate election.

    Looks like Gaddafi is gone.

    Bluescope Steel has stolen Mr. Abbott’s limelight. It appears that the government and Bluescope is working together to lessen the harm.

    The high Australian dollar is being blamed.

    It is seen by the government as a chance to bring steel production up to modern day standards. Maybe Wollongong and Port Kembla will thrive as Newcastle did after it lost it’s heavy steel and other coal fired industries.

    Today we may get the High Court decision on the Malaysian solution.

    Everyone ready for Mr. Abbott’s No Confidence motion. I dowis he would get a new speech writer, one who can think up some new slogans.

  25. Mr. Brandis has written to the Police Commissioner, demanding an inquiry into Mr. Thomson.

    So much for the separation of Police and government.

    I hope he does better than their effort at Wyong Police Station and actually present some evidence.

  26. You know, I pass more trucks than has shown up in Canberra when I travel on the Freeway from the Central Coast to Sydney.

    Why are they not showing pictures of the trucks or crowd.

    The only one I seen with signage was one with Costa on the side.

  27. The tax will go up, up and up. The truck numbers are going down, down and down.

    Surely Mr. Abbott can find some new disasters of this government, instead of rehashing the alleged ones of the previous government.

  28. CU, I’m sorry but I’ll have to contradict you there… re “It was Malcolm Fraser that called the election in 1975”.

    In 1975 Malcom Fraser was the leader of the opposition and the leader of the opposition certainly cannot call an election. The Liberal lead Senate blocked supply and so the GG called for a DD of parliament.

    Sir John Kerr as “the Queen’s representative” as per all Governors General has the power under the Constitution to call an election. A new Constitution?

  29. The GG put Mr. Fraser in as PM on the condition that he would ensure the passing of the money bills and call an DD election. The legality and what occurred is a little hazy.

    Mr. Fraser was allowed to be the incumbent PM for the election period.

    Today’s situation in no way similar to what occurred in 1975.

    Abbott has re-introduces his plebiscite bill for an election. Talk about posturing and waste of time by the Opposition.

  30. In a truly cringe worthy appearance, Anal Jones stood up to address the convoy of no consequence today in Canberra.
    Glad you took the time to travel to Canberra and witness first hand just how little support there is for your brand of ratbaggery.
    My chant would have been:

    SCUM, SCUM, SCUM
    GO BACK TO
    WHERE YOU’RE FROM

  31. Both Min & CU are partially correct re 1975.

    9.00am: Whitlam meets with Fraser and other Opposition leaders. He says that he will call a half-Senate election immediately unless the money bills are passed.

    10.00am: Whitlam makes an appointment to see Kerr.

    10.10am: The Labor caucus is told by Whitlam that there will be a Senate election.

    10.30am: Fraser tells the Opposition parties there is nothing to report.

    11.45am: House of Representatives meets and debates yet another motion of confidence in the government.

    12.10pm: Kerr’s private secretary phones Fraser to tell him to go to Government House at 1.00pm.

    12.45pm: Fraser leaves for Government House, where he is shown into a waiting room.

    12.50pm: Whitlam leaves for Government House, not knowing Fraser is there.

    1.15pm: Kerr dismisses Whitlam.

    1.30pm: Kerr commissions Fraser as Prime Minister.

    2.00pm: The Senate passes the Supply bills.

    2.30pm: Fraser announces to the House of Representatives that he is Prime Minister, moves that the House of Representatives adjourn, but is defeated.

    3.03pm: Whitlam moves a motion of no-confidence in Fraser.

    3.16pm: House of Representatives passes motion of no-confidence in Fraser. The Speaker asks for an appointment with Kerr, but is told that Kerr cannot see him until 4.45pm.

    4.50pm: The Governor-General’s secretary, David Smith, goes to Parliament House and reads the proclamation dissolving Parliament. The proclamation concludes with the words “God Save the Queen.” Whitlam declares that “nothing will save the Governor-General” and implores his supporters to maintain their “rage and enthusiasm”. The ALP is defeated at the polls on December 13, 1975. The Fraser Government secures the largest majority in Australian Federal political history.

  32. Catching up @ 12.20pm

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/labor-says-craig-thomson-police-probe-is-a-stunt/story-fn3dxity-1226119556321

    Minister Albanese made the only relevent point which gets lost in the tranlation or in paragraph 99:-

    The Minister said the only parliamentary member facing actual charges was Liberal senator Mary Jo Fisher, chairwoman of the Senate’s environment committee, who is due to appear in court over allegedly stealing groceries from a supermarket.

  33. Bacchus as I said it was a little fuzzy.

    Mr. Whitlam, for a PM who was in power for less than three years and two elections, has had the last laugh.

    Many of the policies he introduced have stood the test of time.

    Admittedly, some were changed or dumped, but found their way back into legislation.

    By the way, government obstruction is to blame for the poor turnout on the hill.

    What government obstruction????

    Too much else going on for Mr. Abbott to get much traction.

    At least Mr. Howes has something to talk about that is reality.

    I don’t think that Mr. Abbott’s “no confidence motion” is going to get much traction, nor his plebiscite bill for that matter.

  34. Thank you Bacchus, it gives me heart when I am “partially correct”.

    Maybe I should stick to playing music.. here is one for the one I love, well he’s special anyway ;). Go the girls….

  35. Min, do not take offence. It was very complicated and many have different views on what occurred.

    The important thing is that it cannot occurred today.

    We have Mr. Abbott playing the fool while the government and the unions are addressing another more important issue, that of the restructuring of Bluescope.

    Mr. Abbott told his people that the PM was having a press conference in her courtyard, when she should be with him, addressing the so called truckers convoy.

    I suggest that Mr. Abbott would be better placed to address this issue as well.

  36. CU, ahh the sweet irony of life that Fraser is now considered a leftie and the enemy of the the right. Both he and Whitlam are now of course revered elder statesmen. I will never say ‘never’ but I cannot imagine that Howard will ever be elevated to this status..mostly because JWH will never ever admit that he was wrong.

  37. Thanks to Mr. Abbott and his trucker convoy, which the main trucker’s association does not support, people are listening to the media.

    What are they getting, a very important and well managed announcements by One Steel and Blue Steel.

    The end of Gaddafi and restructuring of the steel industry is big news.

    Added to that is the later expected announcement by the High Court of their decision regarding refugees.

  38. The point in the whole scenario was that Kerr knowing his power under Australia’s Constitution decided to exercise this. It will not happen again and certainly our current GG will not do this.

    As per the ’75 scenario the GG did have the option to call a half Senate election but Kerr chose not to do so. Why did Kerr not go with this option? No idea and as Kerr is dead and buried I guess that we will never know the reason why.

    CU, I was just joking with Bacchus.

  39. Labor Left pushes for mining barons to fund manufacturing revival

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-left-pushes-for-mining-barons-to-fund-manufacturing-revival/story-fn59niix-1226119623950

    THE Labor Left wants the nation’s billionaire mining barons to pour their money into manufacturing to stave off job losses and ensure crucial skills are developed.

    The call came as Prime Minister Julia Gillard announced a $100 million cash injection for BlueScope steel from the industry’s carbon-tax adjustment fund – which Tony Abbott opposes – to prevent further job losses at the struggling manufacturer.

    As BlueScope Steel announced 1000 job losses today, Left faction convenor Doug Cameron said the big miners had a responsibility to spread their wealth to the struggling manufacturing sector.

    “It’s not just a matter for government,” Senator Cameron said.

    “This is a matter for business as well. And I think there is a responsibility on the mining industry – the Gina Rineharts, the Clive Palmers, the Twiggy Forests, the BHPs, the Rio Tintos – to actually stop lining their wallets and start making an investment in manufacturing jobs in this country.”

    He said such an investment was not only crucial for the nation, but would also reap benefits for mining companies by ensuring the development of heavy engineering skills.

  40. Pip, they must have dropped the “assault” charge against Liberal Senator Mary Jo Fisher.
    It has be reported that Mary Jo was suffering from “depression”. Well depression is no excuse for criminal behaviour.
    It’s just another example of Liberal party spin and double standards.

  41. The number of drivers joining the ‘convoy of no-confidence’ has failed to meet organisers’ expectations

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/the-number-of-drivers-joining-the-convoy-of-no-confidence-has-failed-organisers-expectations/story-fn59niix-1226119467817

    Mr Jones, the 2GB broadcaster, said the protesters had been prevented from having their voices heard.

    “Someone has instructed the federal police from stopping them (protesters) going where they want to go,” he said.
    “This is shameful. Here are the people in their trucks, this is the most disgraceful thing that has ever been done to democracy.”

    What a disgrace, no-one told Anal about the roadworks.

  42. Poor old Anal, how dare the police not keep him fully informed about roadworks in Canberra. Don’t they know hat a VIP he is?

    What a tragedy for the Convoy of Whingers, half of whom probably don’t know what the hell they’re protesting. But obviously a lot thought that a week’s wages spent spouting Smuggles Set talking points was a monumental waste of their time and money and voted with their tyres.

    Another great success for the Smuggles Set in their tireless pursuit of power.

  43. Jane, what I would like to know is how many of the truckers were company men and how many are independents – because clearly if a number of them were company men then they wouldn’t be in the convoy unless their bosses gave them instructions to be there.

    And of the company men, who are their employers..the ones that gave them instructions to be a part of the convoy.

  44. Pip..we’ve gone viral 😀

    Your link: Abbott says he’ll accept plebiscite vote.

    Tony Abbott a month ago: Mr Abbott also told 3AW today that if he was successful in forcing a plebiscite and the result found the people wanted a carbon tax, he would not accept it.

  45. Mobius, obviously things are fairly crook in Tullarook regarding Thomson but he has not been declared bankrupt – in fact these days it’s less likely for a person to declare bankruptcy but rather they enter in to a Debt Agreement under BANKRUPTCY ACT 1966 – SECT 185C (Commonwealth Consolidated Acts). These days a hundred or so grand is small pickin’s. Thomson may have had brothel expenses, but it’s not illegal..tacky, but not illegal.

    And of course. Slipper becomes Speaker. I hadn’t thought of that one.

    From the link to Crikey:

    And this FoI request, released in May, also got Labor tongues wagging. It shows three two-hour trips from Canberra locations to unspecified destinations “as directed”, when those trips should have taken 10 or 15 minutes.

    Is this enough to bring down a government..ever heard of being held up by road works….not that I know whether Thomson was or wasn’t or whether it was the drivers choofing off elsewhere and claiming extra time on their log books. Pure speculation.

  46. Pip @1.45
    Anal Jones an outright Liar. The police did not stop trucks entering Canberra, in fact the opposite. Anal should apologise to the police and his audience for the big fat lie.
    Will Anal be outted by the Sydney media?. The Tele could do a full expose and run it for weeks.

  47. Mr. Albanesi described the convoy of very few trucks, as the convoy of no consequences. Spot on.

    Very quiet in parliament today. Only one short outburst of any note, which occurred after a question about the convoy.

    No “no confidence motion” or suspension of standing orders. No MPI debate. Surely with all that has happened today, that would have been appropriate.

    Min, I have my phone line and ADSL2 reconnected after the Telstra fiasco.

    I would like to tell anyone that believes that wireless broadband is as good as even copper wire, let alone fibre, they have not used it or they have rocks in their heads for brains. Maybe they are just lying.

  48. Well that certainly was just another great big new non event. Move on Tony, nothing to see here.

    We await your next “hey, look over there”.

  49. CU @5.12pm we’ve got wireless as the only other choices are satellite or dial-up and unfortunately we’re never going to be in a position to get onto NBN. Wireless sucks, but it’s better than satellite (for speed and price) and dial up.

  50. Jane, I am on the Central Coast. We do not have good radio or TV reception. Why would I expect wireless broadband to be any better.

    We are between towers with the TV and I suspect the same is true of the wireless broadband.

    Surprisingly I have no problem with my Virgin mobile phone.

    It is good to have my broadband back. I am looking forwarded to the time when they have Naked Broadband here, but I believe it will be a long wait.

    I could not imagine using dial up again. It is hard to believe we thought that it was wonderful.

  51. I believe that Mr. Abbott did not have a good day. This in spite of all that happened, that should have embarrass the government.

    The PM handling of the Bluescope steel, show that the government is on the ball.

    Mr. Abbott needs to be careful he does not become sidelined.

  52. Shucks luna, I wonder how many company names might have been covered over in the ‘convoy’. Surely the companies supporting Tabbot would want all this (cough cough) excellent publicity.

  53. Bacchus, you certainly can.

    It being a Monday evening and a girl not having much else to do except to think about the Crimes Act 1900, I came across – Sect 93B Riot.

    (1) Where 12 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his or her personal safety, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose is guilty of riot and liable to imprisonment for 15 years. …

  54. Bacchus, I think that mine beats yours on price..but given that it’s the boss’s shout..anything goes. 😀

  55. That’s it for me folks (once the wine is finished, naturally). I’m off on leave but I promise to be back as originally planned early October. If I get a chance I’ll read the Café comments.

    Keep up the good work Min. That goes for Pip, Cu, Kevin and lunalava too (as authors). Love what people have been writing and commenting on. All class.

  56. Yup there’s a case in the cellar and when Migs opens it out come the moths..from the last time that he paid the accounts….

  57. Thank you Migs, it certainly hasn’t been easy without you on board as going solo is a most difficult task. We can therefore look forward to a change over in October where I will be bowing out.

  58. I’ll second those sentiments Migs – the place is in good hands during your sabbatical. Sad that Min will take her leave in October – I hope that’s only temporary…

  59. And thank you Antony Green..

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/08/calls-for-a-double-dissolution-are-just-ridiculous.html

    The “Convoy of No Confidence” currently descending on Canberra continues to be reported as demanding a double dissolution.

    In response to these reports, let me repeat once again that it is constitutionally impossible for there to be a double dissolution.

    ..just read it..and bombs away for Tony Abbott and all those truckers calling for a DD..it’s a complete and utter fantasy much the same as Abbott’s Bat Phone to the patrol boats to turn the boats back.

  60. CU, @6.25pm, half your luck. We can’t have adsl because we don’t pass the population test. We have a new exchange which is fine for adsl, but it will never be commissioned imo because the marina we’ve had foisted on us will never have enough people living there permanently.

    I also don’t have mobile reception at home.

  61. Further proof that the guvmint was out to get those “real Australians” demonstrating to bring down democracy comes with the complaint that many were issued with parking infringement notices.
    Gee the govmint really knows how to crush a protest.

  62. Well I’m astounded..and another journo has come out with some real life facts… I would be exceptionally surprised though if anything similar was found in the Murdoch press tho’.

    So, no matter what the truckies say or do, the Governor-General cannot grant them their wish. Like most tourists to Canberra, the truckies are likely to go round and round in circles and find that they are back where they started from, achieving nothing but burnt fuel, time and money.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/demand-for-double-dissolution-election-is-wide-of-the-mark-20110822-1j6ol.html

  63. My daughter was just commenting that what she found ironic was that the “real Aussie battlers of the convoy” look for inspiration from a “gay billionaire”.But we agreed they may not realise or are just ignorant on that fact as well.

  64. Surely the truckie episode must come under the heading of A STUNT. There was Tony Abbott sitting up like Jackie with one of the truckies – you know Tony Abbott who studied law who would have known very well that the truckies’ demands for a DD were ridiculous.

  65. As far as I can make out, he joined the convoy of no consequences during the night.

    How many feel sorry for those who were booked.

    Arrangements were made with the police and authorities for safe parking for the trucks. They choose to ignore the arrangements.

    I, for one do not want to see the roads around the parliament, destroyed by heavy vehicles they were not built for.

    Has anyone seen any pictures or videos of the crowd or the trucks massed together.

    Mr. Abbott would be better placed pondering on some of the real problems facing this country. The imbalances caused, no not by a mythical carbon tax, but by the high dollar rate and the high profits in the mining and resource industry.

    These are real issues and along with what is occurring in the rest of the world cannot be address by a couple of slogans.

    It is time for our elected leaders to pull together. The stakes are too high.

    It is time for Mr. Abbott to leave his dream world and face reality.

    The economy is always in a state of reconstructing, this is what I believe is progress and industry generally copes well without government assistance.

    What is occurring now is too rapid and widespread for industry to change and bring themselves into the present state of affairs without government and industry pulling together.

    What worked ten, twenty years ago is no longer the answer. We are in a new ball game, which can only be address by identifying what needs to be done and pulling together.

    The PM and treasurer puts the cards on the table yesterday. It is up for all others to come to the party.

  66. “battlers of the convoy” look for inspiration from a “gay billionaire”.’

    One who also likes them young.

  67. From Twitter. the Truckies Tea Party will love this.

    @geeksrulz
    Geekster

    Newspoll section of Constitution: Any Govt that goes below 45% PP will automatically trigger a double dissolution election. Max 12 a year

  68. Twitter, quoting Nick Minchin on Q + A last night:-

    rhysam Rhys Muldoon

    “the Tea Party are serving a good purpose in the US” – Nick Minchin

  69. CU Tony will be back to the real world problems today. There is a promo at Parliament house for fitness with tennis and they have lined up tony Abbott to play Mark Arbib. Now you may wonder about why Mark Arbib, but he is the Minister of Sport. Now I don’t suppose there is a shadow minister so Tony has volunteered for the photo shoot.

  70. Sue, Mr. Abbott likes solitary sports. Maybe having to lob a ball back maybe beyond him.

    He will have to keep some clothes on.

  71. Unbelievable and an absolute disgrace. Alan Jones.

    ”I spend a lot of my time doing those sorts of things. I’ve just been asked by a journalist from The Sydney Morning Herald, am I getting a fee from being here today?”

    The crowd booed loudly. People rounded on me and I began to feel very intimidated. A woman next to me began screaming abuse. She said I had no right to be there, that I should go away because I was a ”leftie”.

    I then left because I feared for my safety. As I walked away, Jones bellowed, to cheers from the crowd: ”Where is she? Oh, she’s gone, disappeared. Where is she? She’s gone! Can’t stand and front, can’t stand and front.”

    All because I asked a question.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/question-time-sees-jones-fly-off-handle-20110822-1j6ue.html#ixzz1VoGOe64y

  72. But CU we haven’t seen the photos yet, Arbib will probably be cut out so that the MSM can show our hero. There will probably be a comment that Julia decided not to take up Tony’s challenge and has sent Arbib.

  73. This is from Min’s link to the SMH. Jones is a gross and disgusting person.

    Earlier, he had accused a Sky News reporter, David Lipson, of misreporting the rally and encouraged the crowd to hector Lipson as he did a live cross.

    I was next. Jones shouted at me across the crowd. He yelled that I should look in the mirror and asked me to repeat where I was from. My question was stupid. His vitriol was apparent, and he bristled with aggression.

  74. I thought the Sport minister was that pretty young woman, cannot remember her name. I must be behind times.

    I am really enjoying last night’s Four Corners.

  75. CU Kate Ellis is now Minister for Employment Participation and Child Care and Minister for the Status of Women

  76. This in the Canberra Times. Perhaps Alan Jones could call and pay for all the costs these country businesses have been left with after ho so loudly and angrily screeched his support for farmers. The businesses will have lost years worth of the cost of a carbon tax the convoy was supposedly protesting about.

    Seems the organiser claims he only told them around 10 to 20. Does this mean it was a beatup before it even started out.

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/convoy-no-show-hurts-stocked-up-pubs/2267087.aspx

  77. Shane, from you link just about says it all:

    The 220-strong town of Wallendbeen was contacted by Convoy of No Confidence organisers 11 days ago and told to prepare for up to 1000 hungry protesters – but locals say only 10 turned up.

    Wallendbeen Hotel owner Kerry Murphy rostered on four extra staff members, hired beer glasses, bought extra kegs and purchased supplies for 300 bacon and egg rolls.

    ”We only sold 10 bacon and egg rolls,” she said. ”We don’t know what to do, we are a bit depressed. It was a big flop, we busted our nuts for nothing and prepared for days but only 10 trucks arrived.”

  78. Min

    It does, and it is a real kick in the guts for the so called people the convoy and that disgraceful shock jock Alan Jones claimed to represent.

    Small businesses were led astray by these hysterical organisers and they organisers and Alan Jones need to compensate them for their losses after being advised how many would turn up.

    Does anyone know what happened with the pro carbon tax rally at Old Parliament House that was supposed to be yesterday as well ?

  79. Shane, I haven’t heard anything about this…a thought, perhaps with all these aggro truckies supposedly in town they may have decided to cancel just in case it all turned ugly.

  80. The organisers of these events must be jealous of Getup. They send out a few emails and the people turn up. Many even part with some money to allow ads.

  81. Min

    Isn’t it funny that the likes of Alan JOnes claim that the left are all loonies and violent. Yet the ones who have felt intimidated are the ones that asked actual questions or those who supported the other side of the argument.

    Tony Abbott and his disgraceful band of shock jocks have a lot to answer for in my opinion. They claim our society is being destroyed and becoming more violent. If they looked in their own backyards and at their own villification and actions they would see who is leading the charge for a nastier world.

  82. Min

    Read the related coverage articles on the right of the link as well and the comments by readers. Very interesting and talking about the disgrace of Alan Jones. I think we should demand an election on whether he is fit and proper to foul our airways with his bile, hatred and incitement.

  83. Shane,
    Jones will simply declare that [Prime Minister] Julia Gillard ordered a road block around Wallendbeen.

  84. Aww I can’t hear it..just catching snippets but I believe that Greg Combet is talking about Anal on Sky News.

  85. AntonyG

    I agree to a point. What is encouraging are the comments by the Canberra Times readers in the related stories in the link provided.

    I can tell you that I was a listener and a supporter of Alan Jones when I was younger. In those days I believe he was much more middle ground than his hysterical right wing thuggery of today.

  86. Industry shuns, but anti-government protest keeps on truckin’
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/22/industry-shuns-but-anti-government-protest-keeps-on-truckin/

    The self-declared leader of the gathering, Mick Pattel, is a long-time industry rabble-rouser and disendorsed Liberal-National Party candidate in Queensland. The National Road Freighters Association, of which he is the national president, is a loose collective of owner-operators that isn’t recognised by any other industry group. Pattel wasn’t answering his mobile today.

    The key industry lobbyist, Australian Trucking Association CEO Stuart St Clair, is another former National Party member. He held New England for the Nats for a final term before independent Tony Windsor claimed the seat in 2001, and went on to advise former leader John Anderson.

    But St Clair wants none of the convoy and its rabble of supporters. The ATA, as the main industry conduit to Canberra sitting at the foot of parliament in the diplomatic core of lobbyists’ row, doesn’t involve itself in protests or politics.

    ATA spokesperson Bill McKinley (another former Coalition adviser, incidentally) told The Power Index the convoy reinforces the cowboy stereotype of the industry. It’s a popular view in an industry paranoid — with good reason — of its perception in the media, fuelled by tabloid TV stories of speeding, drug-addled truckies.

  87. Oh dear…Trucky Tea Party or Libya news ?

    HEAD TO HEAD
    Hadley and Jones take on journalists, politicians and former employers

    http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/head-to-head/hadley-and-jones-take-on-journalists-politicians-and-former-employers/20110823312?utm_source=The+Power+Index&utm_campaign=890045c93a-The_Power_Daily_23_Aug_2011&utm_medium=email

    Top-rating Sydney radio jocks Ray Hadley and Alan Jones have lashed out at journalists over their coverage of the Convoy of no Confidence, due to wrap up in Canberra this afternoon.

    2GB mornings host Hadley yesterday criticised Sky News, his former employer, for ignoring the convoy in favour of coverage of the downfall of the Gaddafi regime in Libya. He claimed the subscription channel was focussing on events in the Middle East to bolster its Australia Network bid.

    “Will someone at Sky News give Libya the flick please and go back to domestic issues because it’s driving me cuckoo,” the former auctioneer said. “I mean, not much has changed. There’s a few fires burning, there’s guns being fired in the air. But there’s only so many gun shots you can hear in four hours of coverage…I’m Libya-ed out!”

    Hadley quit his Sky News TV show, Hadley!, after four episodes earlier this year, because he reportedly believed it was under-resourced. Senior journalists at the subscription channel had also refused to work with the famously hot-tempered broadcaster.

    As for breakfast king Alan Jones, he verbally attacked the Sydney Morning Herald sketch writer Jacqueline Maley yesterday for asking if he had been paid to speak at the Parliament House rally.

  88. Speed/amphetamines and pot as the downer..the problems really start when they start using barbituates as the downer.

  89. MIn, I’d forgotten the downers which are necessary to counteract the uppers at the end of the trip ….. then more uppers etc.,

  90. Qld study shows economy will grow with carbon price

    http://www.acfonline.org.au/articles/news.asp?news_id=3509&eid=24344

    Date: 23-Aug-2011

    Queensland Government modelling to examine the effect of a carbon price on the Sunshine State shows jobs would continue to grow with a price on pollution and Queensland’s economy would expand by 41% over the next decade.

    The modelling shows a carbon price would slow ‘business as usual’ economic growth by just 0.4%.

    “This is consistent with modelling by the Garnaut Review and the Federal Treasury, which both showed a price on pollution would have virtually no impact on the economy,” said ACF’s climate change program manager Tony Mohr.

    “People should take note of this credible economic modelling and should ignore the scaremongering of big industry lobby groups and other vested interests.

    “This research predicts jobs in Queensland will grow by 2% a year, with or without a price on pollution, with an extra 474,000 jobs expected over the period to 2019–20.

    “Politicians should resist using the carbon price as a political football, because the need to shift away from our polluting economy is actually very serious and urgent.

    “Queensland has some of the most amazing natural resources in the world, including the Great Barrier Reef, which faces devastation unless we tackle climate change.”

  91. Lobbyists to the Left and Right, and a misleading headline for good measure:-

    Sheldon heavied on carbon stand
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/sheldon-heavied-on-carbon-stand-20110727-1i0aj.html

    THE war between the Gillard government and the Transport Workers Union is escalating with Labor heavyweights questioning the authenticity of public attacks on the carbon tax by the union’s boss, Tony Sheldon.

    Party leaders said that, despite his outbursts, Mr Sheldon failed to raise concerns about the carbon tax when he had a meeting with Julia Gillard and her senior ministers last week.

  92. Mr. Abbott would be better placed pondering on some of the real problems facing this country. The imbalances caused, no not by a mythical carbon tax, but by the high dollar rate and the high profits in the mining and resource industry.

    That’ll never happen CU. It would mean that Smuggles has to do more than pull stunts in lycra and spout slogans. He’d have to formulate responsible properly costed policies, which don’t change each time he changes his undies or what passes for his mind.

    Pip, what a twat Minchin is. I just loved the pontificating about Craig Thomson and his amnesia about that slug Reith, who embezzled $50,000 from us taxpayers in the phone card scam. I actually emailed him a question about it, but alas didn’t get the nod. I just wish someone in the audience had asked him to demonstrate his smug, hypocrisy.

    Min @10.59am, ooh you are awful, but I like you! ROFLMAO!

    News flash, Ray! We’re all well and truly Rayed and Analed out! perhaps you could sniff each other’s backsides for a while!

    Oddly enough, most normal people think the downfall of a Middle Eastern dictatorship is far more important and newsworthy than some tinpot Convoy of Wingers listening to you two filling their heads with utter bullshit!

  93. Jane re “perhaps you could sniff each other’s backsides for a while!”

    Ewww chunder…are you in-a-mood too Jane. 😉

  94. Why are the police investigating the allegations today, when they said
    they said yesterday they could not.

    State government pressure.

    Mr. Windsor just ask the treasurer if he supported Mr. Hillman’s view that a carbon tax would put a downward pressure on the dollar.

    Surely the new tax on mining should also help with transferring money from mining profits to the rest of the community.

  95. Jane, I was more interested in whether Gaddafi had met his downfall than a couple of hundred people who could not even manage a decent protest.

  96. Min, Mine on Open Thread
    Pip
    Response on Twitter, to Senator Brandis getting his police investigation, mine @ 12.34pm.

    AshGhebranious AshGhebranious

    @latikambourke Latika, if NSW come back saying there is NO evidence, will Brandis call for an investigation into the police

    The tide is turning in some quarters 🙂

  97. Mr. Emmerson, sadly lost it with Mr. Abbott. Said what he really thought about Tone.

    What a ridiculous nick name.

  98. DIRTY TRICKS by Rabbott:-

    Tony Abbot reveals attack plan on Government’s carbon bills

    http://www.news.com.au/features/environment/tony-abbot-reveals-attack-plan-on-governments-carbon-bills/story-e6frflp0-1226120487283

    Pairing between MPs banned by Abbott
    “If it’s your daughter’s 21st, you can’t go”
    14 climate bills to go before parliament
    TONY Abbott today told his troops there would be no leave from Parliament during the debate over carbon pricing legislation and pointed to a show-no-mercy campaign against the bills.

    “If it’s your daughter’s 21st, you can’t go,” the Opposition Leader told his backbenchers at a weekly meeting.

    The edict would also affect Government MPs and ministers as Mr Abbott has banned “pairing”, the practice by which an MP absent from Parliament for a good reason is matched with a member from the other side to maintain relative numbers.

    The ban, described as “absurd and churlish” by one minister today, could be felt by the Government in the House of Representatives where it has to rely on votes from cross benchers to get legislation through.

    The dingbat Leader of the Opposition should remember that he is meant to be making productive contributions to the Parliament and not making an ass of himself !!

  99. I noticed each minister are finishing their answers with a spirited attack on Mr. Abbott’s economical ability.

  100. Perfect timing

    Tweet

    geeksrulz Geekster

    Abbott attracts them everywhere he goes it seems RT @AshGhebranious: Gallery nut balls dragged out #qt #auspol

  101. Min @2.21pm, not in a mood, but that’s what hyenas do. Although comparing that pair to the noble hyena is wrong, I guess.

    CU @2.46pm as any sane person would be, but we’re dealing with massive egos and monumental senses of entitlement and self importance, here.

    …….if NSW come back saying there is NO evidence, will Brandis call for an investigation into the police

    Well, Pip we are dealing with the Smuggles Set and if the answer isn’t to their liking……

  102. SenatorBobBrown – Twitter
    Bob Brown

    RT @GreensMPs: Today @SenatorBobBrown will give notice of this motion about Alan Jones’ comments

    http://greensmps.org.au/content/mr-alan-jones

    Mr Alan Jones
    Motion | Spokesperson Bob Brown
    Tuesday 23rd August 2011, 1:45pm
    Share6in Media
    Senator Bob Brown
    Leader of the Australian Greens

    I give notice that on the next day of sitting I shall move that:

    The Senate request Mr Alan Belford Jones AO apologise to the police and wider public for his false claim that thousands of people and hundreds of trucks, on their way to Monday’s rally outside Parliament House, had been stopped at the New South Wales – Australian Capital Territory border;

  103. auspoltragic auspoltragic

    Is the term ‘scare campaign’ used because they aren’t allowed to use the more correct term ‘lies’? #qt

  104. In Anal’s rant among the How dare yous he said he had done a lot for the bush and that he was always putting his hand in his pockets for the bush. Which I summarised that he liked to put is hands in his pockets as he feels for the cocky.

  105. Min, just watched the rant on the link you provided. What a gutless, fat f*ck! He really is a disgusting bully with a gigantic sense of his own importance. Chopper Reid had him well and truly sussed.

    Pip, good on Bob Brown, but that slug has neither the good manners nor the decency to apologise. A complete waste of space.

  106. RiotACT is the best news bulletin in Canberra and in their latest post they set the record strait on the recent astro-turfing/ lies/ propaganda stunt:

    http://the-riotact.com/the-lies-of-the-crazy-gang-things-we-can-learn-from-the-convoy/53134

    I was interested in the reference to Godwin’s Law:

    “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (i.e. 100%).”

    This well thought out piece goes on to say that Abbott’s part in the convoy to bring down the government looks a lot like Hitler’s silly 1923 Beer Hall Putsch

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch

    Just because it’s a cliche doesn’t mean we should dismiss the message.

  107. Thank you for that one Sue and Lunalava..that one is definitely a keeper 🙂 Have book marked the RiotACT site.

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