Tony takes time out

It was somewhat of a relief that I read this morning that Tony Abbott is to take an extended break.

In his absence, deputy leader of the federal Liberal party Julie Bishop and Nationals head Warren Truss will lead the opposition, Mr Abbott said in a statement.

“The Hon Julie Bishop and the Hon Warren Truss will … Continue the campaign against the Prime Minister’s carbon tax,” he said.

First impression is “don’t hurry back Tony”. Second impression is that this will be interesting – I wonder how much the Hon J. Bishop knows about the science of climate change.

And then we have Warren Truss’s Nationals who fear farmland will be swamped by trees.

THE Coalition has refused immediate support for the government’s carbon farming bill because it fears farmland will be consumed by forests, but the timber industry says Tony Abbott’s Direct Action plan would require up to 600,000 hectares of cleared agricultural land to be converted to plantations. Its estimate is based on calculations from the National Association of Forest Industries. That organisation’s chief executive, Allan Hansard, told the Herald the Coalition plan would require between 300,000 and 600,000 hectares of already cleared agricultural land to be planted with trees by the end of the decade.

Calculations by the Department of Climate Change suggest the land area needed to achieve the Coalition’s goal could be 10 times that estimate.

Are there any suggestions as to what Tony Abbott might like to do during his time-out.

As Abbott “hit back” yesterday, dismissing the government’s use of Mr Cameron’s letter back the carbon tax as a “cultural cringe to the old country” – perhaps a trip back to the old country.

198 comments on “Tony takes time out

  1. Everyone needs a time out from Abbort, he will probable nip over to the USA to see that the mess he wants to make of OZ is minor to what is happening over there. Leaving Truss and Cat woman so called “bright sparks” to hold the fort. No challenge from them for LOTO they are as lame a pair as could be found anywhere. So while the cat is away what will the little mouse Mal be up to , guesses anyone.
    Off to work now by by

  2. ‘I wonder how much the Hon J. Bishop knows about the science of climate change.’

    Surely it can’t be less that yabot. I can’t ‘weight’ to see that 😉

  3. I note that now that yabot has decvlared holiday time, the msm is out there telling the government to stop its ‘election campaign’

    Personally, I reckon they’re scared shitless that Gillards message makes sense, and exposes the past 6 months of baseless fear as just that.

    I am currently watching insiders, and it is vomit inducing

  4. Tom R, can I presume that a big part of the ‘vomit inducing’ Insiders might have something to do with Chris Kenny, the very able Liberal spruiker??

  5. Looks like The Australian missed the scoop that Mr. Rabbott has gone on holidays.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/quiet-on-the-front/story-e6frgdk6-1226105556073

    THERE’S an eerie silence emanating from the Lodge, assuming silence can emanate.

    Julia Gillard must be flat out in her study trying to thrash out some hard questions for News Limited to answer. As she sweats over this challenging task, she leaves the media to Tony Abbott, who is making hay in the winter sunshine with pithy sound bites on carbon, the leadership plight of South Australian Premier Mike Rann and Conservative British Prime Minister David Cameron’s cringeworthy letter to Gillard congratulating her on the carbon tax, which must be some sort of world first. We can tell when Abbott is having fun. “Mike Rann is not the only Labor leader who would be feeling very insecure this week,” he says with mischief written all over his face. Who can he be talking about? Not Gillard, surely? Give her a break, Tony. She’s
    got a list of hard questions to prepare.

    The SMH in an interesting aside, completely ignored the fact that Abbott has been “feeding the beast” too.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/just-quietly-a-pause-in-political-play-works-wonders-for-all-20110731-1i6d6.html

    A few points here. Truth is we in the media play a double game. In contemplative mode we counsel Julia Gillard to be still; then in reporting mode we deadline junkies contradict our own counsel by craving daily content. We get restless if she doesn’t emerge.

    Bearing in mind that Abbott doesn’t rate one mention in this article…

    But the impression of the permanent campaign corrodes and devalues the governing.

    There is a lot of reasonable debate at the moment about who is driving whom to what dire straits in politics – is it the media imposing shallowness and shrillness and discordance on the debate, or is it politics as it seeks new ways to control the discourse and limit genuine insight?

    Near the end of this article the author finally writes the one relevent sentence…..

    Perhaps Gillard has simply lacked the opportunity for a moment’s reflection.

    Yes indeed, and joy of joys the main distraction has gone on holidays, and for that we can all be grateful.

  6. Pip, from your link to Katharine Murphy in the SMH…”Strategists around the PM get twitchy because Tony Abbott rushes to fill the space…”.

    I would say Yes that this is exactly what Abbott does but that he can only do this because of a supportive Murdoch media. Abbott can rush around ‘filling in spaces’ but these will be meaningless without a bevy of media chasing him around.

  7. Still reflecting here on cassidy’s acceptance of yabots words of truth.

    In regards to his line, ‘invisible, odorless, weightless, harmless’ line, and after Combet called it for the bs it is, all cassidy could do was say “well, he is right about the odorless and invisible bits isn’t he?”

    WTF. Talk about free kicks. I thought journos were there to highlight when they were bs’ing us, not try and pick out grains of truth from all the other crap they spout.

  8. I am enjoying the comment “consumed by forests”…wouldn’t that be a terrible state of affairs.

  9. From the Jesuit website…..

    http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=27372

    Tony Abbott’s FUD factor

    In the 1980s computer journalists used to refer to the ‘FUD’ factor and its impact on computer purchases. FUD — Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

    The FUD factor has now found a home in politics. Tony Abbott has become the master of the FUD factor in the present debate over climate change and the carbon tax.

  10. Speculation is that with Abbott having counted himself out of the picture at least temporarily, that we can be looking forward to seeing more of Malcolm Turnbull. This week should be interesting….

  11. Min, not only that, but consumer confidence is predicted to move back into positive territory, for the short term at least 😉

  12. Min, that could prove very interesting .

    Tony Abbott’s ‘value for money’ broadband threatens healthcare

    http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/bleeding-edge/tony-abbotts-value-for-money-broadband-threatens-healthcare-20110729-1i2zr.html

    Australia’s healthcare sector is getting a disturbing preview of what life might be like under the Opposition’s alternative broadband scenario, as their British counterparts struggle with the frustrations of a so-called “broadband” network that is at least partially built on the same sort of copper infrastructure that Opposition leader Tony Abbott describes as “a perfectly functional network”.

    The National Health Service’s N3 broadband network cost $A1.34 billion to cover 18,000 sites (which makes the NBN look comparatively reasonable). But many GPs complain it is so slow that it’s causing errors with patient appointments and does not permit them to share electronic health records. They say they can handwrite requests for lab tests faster than using the computerised ICE (Integrated Clinical Environment) system.

    It’s a disturbing scenario for Australia’s doctors, who are about to enter an era of electronic health records and remote delivery of healthcare. According to Ovum’s latest healthcare IT market forecast, Australia will be spending $2.17 billion on the sector in 2016, a cumulated annual growth rate (CAGR) of almost 10 per cent from 2010.

  13. Tom R @ 9.45am, WTF indeed.
    Cassidy is either a complete lackey to the Murdoch agenda or a complete idiot ! Or both ??

  14. i think I heard that Yabbott is going to Europe. Maybe he could visit Greece to see what an economy that thinks tax collection is negotiable, Italy where there really is a flood of immigration and Britain where News Ltd is in for an interesting time.

  15. Sue, Tony is just touring overseas taking advantage of the high $AUS, after all he has seen most of Australia.
    As the saying goes “How much the fool that’s sent to roan, excels the fool that stays at home”.

  16. Sue, they’ll all be unhinged at the loss of the standard phrases, “the Opposition says”, and “Tony Abbott says”.

    The ABC might even have to resort to proper investigative and relevent reporting.

  17. Luna lava, as Greg Combet said yesterday on the Insiders, if Abbott put his head in a bag of CO2 he’d see how safe it is, or words to that effect.

  18. Listening to an ABC vox pop in a Labor heartland pub in Port Adelaide.
    In answer to a leading question about the coup against Premier Rann,
    “from what I’m reading it’s time for a change”.

    No suprise there, it’s a Murdoch or nothing town.

  19. Pip I cannot see the ABC being unraveled, the infiltration is more then the board, The Murdoch influence is in the journalism(?) on-line, the bylines in the news and the standard or I should say the lack of standard in questions on 7.30 and then when you have Insiders where the make up of the panel is News Ltd.

  20. Best wishes to our Foreign Minister who is having heart surgery this morning.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/kevin-rudd-enters-hospital-to-have-heart-surgery/story-e6freoof-1226105812945

    Kevin Rudd enters hospital to have heart surgery

    FOREIGN Minister Kevin Rudd has entered a Brisbane hospital for heart surgery.

    Mr Rudd will have his aortic valve replaced this afternoon. The surgery will replace a leaky aortic valve that was inserted almost 20 years ago.

    Mr Rudd took to Twitter this morning to thank well wishers.

    “Thanks to all those kind folks wishing me well for surgery. Therese and the kids also want me to thank you all for the support. KRudd”.

    And Prime Minister Julia Gillard has wished him well as he undergoes “I’ve personally spoken to Kevin about all of this,” she told 4BC this morning.

    “He’s been through it before and knows exactly what to expect. But we’ll all be wishing him the best. But he’s got a real sense of confidence about it having been through it before”.

  21. Pip, I truly believe that Greg Combet’s suggestion should be tried..just in the interests of science of course.

    Lovely pic of Julia BTW at the link below. One tried and true journo method and yes we’re guilty of it on the blogs too, is to locate the worst photo possible. Think of all those pics of Tony struttin’ his stuff and then a profile pic of Julia set in bad light.

    When you see a nice photo, then there are hints that the worm might be turning.

    Abbott was NOT able to get any of the Independents to change their minds – Abbott has NOT been able to stop the NBN – Abbott will not stop the carbon tax. So…exactly what is that Abbott has done?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/australia-not-immune-from-global-events-but-economic-fundamentals-strong-julia-gillard-says/story-fn59niix-1226105804496

  22. Sue, there is also on ABC, The Drum, online and on TV, which is providing a platform for the parroting lobbyists from corporate-funded think tanks such as the Institute of Public Affairs.

  23. Min,
    Pip, I truly believe that Greg Combet’s suggestion should be tried..just in the interests of science of course.

    Of course 🙄

  24. Bacchus..what an amazing coincidence, Abbott choofs off on his break and it just so happens that Turnbull is going to be at the National Press Club.

    It’s not as if T’bull is going to asked about climate change or nuffin’ like that. Mind you Abbott has stated specifically that it’s J.Bishop and Truss who are in charge of this particular debate..my guess is that T’bull will NOT be behaving himself.

  25. Sky is loudly proclaiming about Abbott’s “short break” and that Kevin Rudd is having one too.

    Oh yes and BTW it’s because Rudd is undergoing heart surgery today.

  26. Theirs talk that Abbott was seen prowling around a certain hospital in Brisbane, could it be a Rudd factor.

  27. President Barack Obama says a compromise was reached on raising the debt limit, but it was not ideal

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/us-debt-warning-were-all-exposed/story-fn59niix-1226105711223

    PRESIDENT Barack Obama and the Republican leadership have reached an agreement on the debt deal, in time to prevent a catastrophic default.

    The historic agreement permits vital US borrowing by the Treasury in exchange for more than $1 trillion in spending cuts in the next 10 years.

    Let’s hope that Americans can see what part the Tea Party has played in this appalling situatuion

  28. Crowey, maybe Abbott isn’t going overseas at all.

    Could it be that he’s having exploratory surgery… looking for a conscience ??

  29. Min @ 10.58 I could hardly believe that the picture of the PM in the Australian.
    I can only put it down to Hartigan and News Ltd are a bit concerned about a review of the media.
    Pip @11.04 with the Drum on the tele, I look to see if the IPA is on, which is most nights, if they are i switch off. The Drum on-line at least I can pick who to read..

  30. Hard to believe I know, but it seems that Tony is starting to receive negative publicity..and this is coming from Malcolm Farr.

    TONY Abbott last week chided Prime Minister Julia Gillard for not campaigning on her carbon pricing plan, but this week he is the one who has gone missing from the policy debate.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-gives-up-carbon-debate-for-europe-after-attacking-julia-gillard-on-absences/story-e6frfkvr-1226105842612#ixzz1TjgUKB6l

  31. Could be Rudd is having his broken heart mended and Tony needs those haemorroids ripped out. I have noticed that Tony sure does walk funny.

  32. Sue, it’s a lovely pic isn’t it. Julia does take a nice photo if journos chose to do so. But of course nice pics do not fit into the theme of ‘ditch the witch’.

    Hence my reasoning that once you see nice pics – and consider how many very flattering ones that the MSM have run of Tony – then things are once again changing.

    The change of course is due to the new political scene which is coming up very rapidly.

    The MSM has no more hits to be garnished from ditch the witch type campaigns, and so Tony is in trouble….

  33. Sue re “Tony sure does walk funny.”…which immediately brought this one to mind.

    This pic always reminds me of ballet classes…4th position, a little more turn out and do not bend zee knees.

  34. Those Institutions should list their funding arrangements, that may go some way to explaining the opinions expressed.

  35. In Abbott’s FUD where was this piece of information from the Business Chamber’s document on the Carbon Tax?

    “The Jobs and Competitiveness Program will support jobs in high-polluting industries with competitors in countries where those industries are not yet subject to comparable carbon constraints. It will commence from 1 July 2012.
    The Government will provide $9.2 billion of the carbon price revenue to assistance for affected jobs in these industries. This assistance will be in the form of free carbon permits.”

    The document makes fascinating reading and in great detail shoots down every one of Abbott’s and his OO’s attack points. Large PDF I got through work so can’t link to it. We also received documents on the carbon tax from other industry associations our company subscribes to as well as from our Quality Assurance company, and as much as I try to find some there is no doom or gloom in any one of them, in fact the exact opposite with them espousing opportunity and advancement under the carbon tax regime.

  36. Well blow me down if I didn’t find this bit in the Business Chamber document, and isn’t this an improvement on Abbott’s bullshit scheme of paying the polluters with no recourse of defined outcomes.

    “The Coal Sector Jobs Package will provide financial
    assistance over six years to Australia’s most
    emissions-intensive coal mines and assist them to
    reduce their emissions. The $1.264 billion assistance
    package will be designed to reward those coal
    mines that reduce their emissions, based on their
    historical emissions intensity. This means that if a
    mine operator takes steps to reduce carbon
    emissions it will be able to decrease its liability
    under the carbon price and pocket the assistance.
    The Government has established a $70 million Coal
    Mining Abatement Technology Support Package to
    assist coal mines in developing and deploying new
    technologies to reduce their carbon emissions.

    This dcoument is a gold mine of shoot Abbott/OO downs. I don’t know how Abbott and the OO can sustain an attack on the Carbon Tax for two years if business is mostly for it and the facts as presented by business show Abbott and his mouth pieces to be liars. This and the other business carbon tax analysis docs I’m reading leads me to believe that those businesses that are attacking the carbon tax, especially those spending millions on anti-carbon tax advertising (and prevaticating in them by the way), are not really against the tax but are using the attacks against the government as means to attempt to get more tax payers money in their pockets, the utterly greedy sods.

    An exception is Rhinehart of course, who is only attacking the government out of purely ideological reasons so as to instil a dunderhead puppet she knows will instantly do everything she asks of him.

  37. Sue @ 11.44am, I moved the lobbyist comment to the Murdoch page, as it was an attack on the ABC and the Australia Network contract.

  38. Good work Mobious, I’m sure Miglo will offer you a glass of the best red when he returns 🙂

    is there a link to the Business Chamber article ?

  39. Mobious,
    This and the other business carbon tax analysis docs I’m reading leads me to believe that those businesses that are attacking the carbon tax, especially those spending millions on anti-carbon tax advertising (and prevaticating in them by the way), are not really against the tax but are using the attacks against the government as means to attempt to get more tax payers money in their pockets, the utterly greedy sods.

    Of course !

  40. As I stated Pip they are documents delivered to us at work because we subscribe to those business associations and organisations. The PDFs were attachments on forwarded emails from the boss.

  41. Mobius re “I don’t know how Abbott and the OO can sustain an attack on the Carbon Tax for two years if business is mostly for it and the facts as presented by business show Abbott and his mouth pieces to be liars.”.

    The answer is that he can’t. There is the mega miners tax to come but that will be the last of Abbott’s attack points. Gillard is using the same strategy as JWH – get rid of the perceived nasties early in the term of government knowing that the public has a short memory – then hand out the sweeteners in the leadup to the next election. Hence Tony’s panic about wanting an election, and I want it NOW.

  42. Min, Re:photo above. Wouldn’t Malcolm love to adjust(tighten)that tie around the Mad Monks neck.

  43. Vale Clyde Holding.

    Mr Holding, a lawyer by training, spent 36 years in public life, starting out in the Victorian Legislative Assembly in 1962.

    He rose to be leader of the Victorian Labor opposition, a position he held for 10 years, before being elected to Canberra in 1977.

    He was a minister in the Hawke government, first holding the Aboriginal affairs portfolio before assuming various ministries including employment services and youth affairs.

    Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
    .End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
    Mr Holdin was immigration minister for a period in 1988 before a cabinet reshuffle, when he became minister for the arts and territories.

    He moved to the backbench in 1990 before retiring in 1998.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/fomer-labor-minister-clyde-holding-dies-aged-80/story-fn59niix-1226105971718

  44. “Of course when Tony travels Australia he does it on the public purse.”

    Same as he does here in Australia, I am waiting for his travel costs for the last three months, seeking photo ops here and there.

    I am also sure if he goes overseas, it will be cheaper for us.

    Was not some of Mr. Abbott’s allotment for overseas travel used for that shadow ministers trip to Malaysia.

    Maybe it could be true he is going to spend some time with his family. Hope so, it will be cheaper for us.

    Maybe he needs to time to learn a couple more lines and slogans. The ones he is now using are becoming a little dated.

    At least he does not have to worry that his deputies will outshine him. They might just undermine him though.

  45. Pip @11.14am, maybe Americans are finally waking up to the fact that the Tea Partiers are prepared to see the US go broke rather than letting go of their insane lust for power.

    …..maybe Abbott isn’t going overseas at all.

    Could it be that he’s having exploratory surgery… looking for a conscience ??

    Or a brain, perhaps, Pip?

    ME, very encouraging news in that report. It’s going to make Smuggles’ bullsh!t campaign even more lame as they desert him. Letting himself be rogered by Gina isn’t going to be much help, either.

    Min, as you so astutely point out, the PM is using a Rodent tactic very ably-get the pain out of the way early, then hand out the cake and lollies in the leadup to the election. Smuggles will be in a cleft stick, if he threatens Joe and Josephine Public’s extra moolah, they will have only one gesture for him!

    And schemes like the Coal Sector Jobs Package can only help the government keep workers in those industries on side, leaving the Smuggles Set trying to play catch-up with nothing in the tank.

    And this will hopefully be augmented by the downfall of the Murdochracy here as well. I sincerely hope the government will take advantage of the toppling of Emperor Rupert by overhauling media ownership in this country, so that any future media tyrant is unable to own more than a 20% share of the msm. And NO cross ownership!

  46. CU..re “At least he does not have to worry that his deputies will outshine him..”. And that’s a foregone conclusion. 🙄

  47. Jane, I will be surprised if Smuggles lasts the year. I know that it seems far-fetched at the moment, but EVERYTHING is going to change after the end of August.

  48. Yeah, right Min, of course. Abbott really is the one struggling.

    Julia is obviously safe because she’s got so much electoral support. No one would dare challenge or undermine her!

    (could someone advise of the planet the barrackers inhabit??)

  49. ToM, Abbott will be now..’struggling’ that is. It’s a prediction. Abbott as we all know has only one modus operandi and this is attack. Without anything to attack it paves the way for Turnbull to mount a challenge. And we all know that Turnbull isn’t hanging around in politics for no reason whatsoever.

  50. ToM, predictions are an interesting phenomena – based a good part on intuition and another good part is basic common sense.

  51. yomm proves his incredible comprehension skills again

    Min clearly stated

    I know that it seems far-fetched at the moment

    Which yomm interprets as

    Yeah, right Min, of course. Abbott really is the one struggling.

    😯

  52. Letting himself be rogered by Gina isn’t going to be much help, either.

    Jane! what an image! Perish the thought!

    But on second thoughts, it might flatten him permanently. So it would certainly help the world at large.

  53. ‘I rarely state anything ‘clearly’’

    Luckily for me, I rarely read anything clearly, which has the effect of your comments coming through clearly 😀

  54. That’s exactly why it is wishful thinking.

    (perhaps one of the editors would be kind enough to delete this comment, it is inconsistent with the prevailing sentiments)

  55. (A reminder or two of Turnbull’s far-fetchings on grue-bleen conservatisms; or, how Abbott’s ‘clarity of vision’, weighted as it is with authority, (ir)revocably ‘brands’ the LNP, and its potential to thrive in political-ecological niches under divers global-temporal conditions.)

  56. ToM..please recover. Neither Migs nor myself have ever deleted any comments. Let’s just put it in the past shall we.

    Logic dictates that Abbott has no other raison d’etre except to be an attack dog. As Gillard has astutely deleted nearly all of Abbott’s attack points then towards the end of this year the Liberals are going to be looking towards a less polarising person to take them to the next election. Enter Turnbull. Hockey is strangely quiet and is certainly nowhere near the old Joe of old.

  57. Actually, someone must be deleting portions of yomms posts.

    It’s the only explanation for these half framed thought bubbles he thinks constitutes ‘debate’ 😉

  58. ‘A traitor to what or whom?’

    The conservatives think Talcum is Labor Lite, so it will have to be Hockey.

  59. The worm is turning at the Courier Mail:-

    Tony Abbott makes a habit of flipping

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/tony-abbott-makes-a-habit-of-flipping/story-e6frerdf-1226106158058

    TONY Abbott the republican? Or just the cynical manipulator who grasps only at that which furthers his own political ambition – inconvenient truth, principle and intellectual rigour be damned along the way?

    It has to be one of the two following Abbott’s reaction to news over the weekend that Conservative British Prime Minister David Cameron penned a letter to Julia Gillard praising her Government for its action
    on climate change.

    amd

    Remember Abbott’s blunt dismissal of economists who vocally backed Labor’s market-based mechanism to address carbon pollution over the Coalition’s “direct action” plan?

    “It may well be,” Abbott said, “that most Australian economists think that the carbon tax or emissions trading scheme is the way to go. Maybe that’s a comment on the quality of our economists.”

    Apparently the only quality economists are those employed by rent-seeking industry groups proffering dire predictions of economic armageddon unless they are dealt special treatment.

    Mind you, consistency is not Abbott’s strong suit.

  60. Kevin, the right are not going to like it but then Abbott only won the leadership due to Hockey and Turnbull effectively cancelling each other out. With a shift to the left as the Greens take their seats in the Senate the Liberals are going to have to consider that Abbott is going to appear stale in comparison. I don’t think that the Libs have anyone on the far right who could win against either Hockey or Turnbull.

    CU, agreed. Every time Hockey has attempted to put forward a policy, Abbott has shot him down in flames.

    Pip. I would not have believed it unless I had seen it and from the Courier Mail no less and not just a line hidden down the bottom of the text but standing out there in BOLD “the cynical manipulator who grasps only at that which furthers his own political ambition – inconvenient truth, principle and intellectual rigour be damned along the way?”

  61. Speaking of politically appropriate, it appears that 20/20 newman reckons he could have saved Brissie. One of the lowest comments I think I can recall a pollie making, which is remarkable considering the recent depths we have plumbed

    “Had I been the premier at the time, we would have acted, we would have drawn the dam down.”

    although, it appears he has only grown a pair since the report came down

    Lord Mayor Campbell Newman said the management of Wivenhoe Dam and any water releases should be carried out in accordance with the operations manual.

    If any changes were contemplated, it was a matter for state authorities working with Weather Bureau advice.

    http://www.news.com.au/government-will-consider-sacrificing-wivenhoe-dam-drinking-water-as-flood-prevention-measure/story-e6freon6-1225997137868?from=public_rss

    Theres one low life that could do with a break

  62. This is lucid and logical Abbott:

    Tony Abbott: “But the fact is the best way to have a civil discourse in this country at the moment would be for the Prime Minister to say ‘look, I made a mistake, I shouldn’t have said one thing before the election and done a different thing after the election, I’m not going to try to ram this toxic tax through a parliament with no mandate for it, I’m going to take it to the people at an election.’ ”

    Tony Abbott: “Well, Laurie, when I made that statement, in the election campaign, I had not the slightest inkling that there would ever be any intention to change this. But obviously when circumstances change, governments do change their opinions, and that is actually the responsible course of action.”

    He makes these types of contradictory statements all the time, sometimes within the same speech or interview, and occasionally within the same sentence or statement. Yet this same man who others want as leader of this country projects his lying and contradictions onto his opponents, and he gets away with it because of a compliant media that neither flags his constant stream of contradictions and lies nor the times he projects them. Even more unsettling is there are those who want a dishonest and inconstant Abbott to lead this country, perfectly willing to accept his prevarications and distortions whilst calling other politicians liars, thus projecting themselves. Some even have the gall to call others hypocrites, thus projecting yet again.

  63. Mobius, I am getting the impression that Tony’s ‘reality’ is what ever he wants it to be – hence the reason he can flip so easily from one statement to another one – he’s running several realities simultaneously.

  64. That’s all well and truly good Min, but then these multiple realities should be highlighted by the media and the contradictions, distortions and outright lies called for what they are, yet we get constant strident yelling of JuLIAR and the making of mountains over mole hills over it, even to the point of calling for the overthrow of democracy to throw the government out.

    If the media and commentators held Abbott to the fraction of the standard they hold this government and particularly Gillard then Abbott should have been pilliored by all and sundry from here to hell a long time ago. Yet instead we get excuses for him but worse taking his proven false word as being credible in countless “Tony Abbott says”, “The opposiiton leader say.”

  65. Mobius, very obviously it is not well and good – I consider Tony Abbott the most dangerously unhinged politican ever to disgrace parliament. It was speculation on my part as to how he does it. I have never known of nor heard about anyone else in public life who can lie unto contradicting himself on a regular basis and yet no one seems to notice any difference..perhaps so bedazzled by the outward persona that they fail to look at the implications of anything that he says.

  66. It appears that the PM has had more important affairs on her agenda than roaming around the country for photo ops.

    Today’s press conference showed that the PM has taken the gloves off.

    The PM has very successfully made the questioners explain what they mean and challenge the assumptions they put forwarded in their questions.

    Poor Malcolm was glob smacked.

    The result in my opinions, the quality of the questions improved.

    It was clear by the initial questioning the media was creating the groundwork for headlines along the line of “the PM backs down”. I am sure this will still occur but the PM has put forward her defence in anticipation of what is coming.

    If the PM behaves the way she has today with the press, I can see where her reputation as a great negotiator has come from.

    The press did not like it and immediately they went on the defence but appeared to realise that was the wrong technique. I think or hope the outcome is that they will have to be more careful with the questions they ask, otherwise they will be challenged, not the PM.

  67. CU, I cannot help but think that treating the PM with some respect might have something to do with the ability of the government to support an Inquiry into the media in Australia.

    There are a lot of chooks still to come home to roost before we see the end of the Murdoch saga.

  68. Min, the Opposition and the MSM can only be based on wishful thinking.

    There is no evidence or facts to support what they professed is going to happen. There is no basis for such things as the PM and the government is going to fall. There is no basis for the propositions that Labor is splitting.

    In fact the opposite is true in my opinion.

    Mr. Abbott world seems to turn around on what he wants to happen. Mr. Abbott does not seem to comprehend what is happening.

    The sad fact is that he believes his own spin.

    I wonder what is the real reason behind his sudden holiday.

    By the way, I think that more than Mr. Turnbull are eying his job.

    Mr. Morrison for one.

  69. Min, I am sad to say, the respect only came after the PM challenge them.

    I suspect Mr. Abbott made the wrong decision taking a break at this time. Maybe he knew what was coming. I believe he was one of the worse Health Minsiter this country has seen.

    I believe that Mr. Abbott’s health policy is worse than his communications and climate change policies. That is saying something.

    Mr. Abbott want to bring back a health policies that existed when we had cottage hospitals back in the beginning of the last century.

  70. CU, that’s a thought. Roxon is of course doing an excellent job and Abbott was b*awful. Plus tomorrow we have Turnbull at the National Press Club and so maybe Abbott has blown ‘retreat’. By the time Abbott returns there will be less than 2 weeks until the new Senate – first sitting day 16th August I believe.

  71. Talcum’s views on cimate change are well known, so he will stick to his own portfolio until questions.

    Will he then throw away the script and answer O/T questions?

  72. el gordo. If Turnbull sticks to his own portfolio what is he going to be talking about..the success of the rollout of the NBN?

  73. Off the subject a bit. The other day I watched Steve Price on the 7PM Project ask one the economists, that isn’t the reason America is in the mess, it is in, simply because Obama is a lousy money manager.The economist put Steve in his place by pointing out Obama inherited a toxic economy and two wars.

    At the moment the right is screaming about the financial mess the US is in. I would like to point out that the only President since ( and including Ronald Reagan) that balanced a budget and reduced the deficit in any given year was Bill Clinton, a Democrat.

    Since 1940 there has been 58 Deficit Years and only 12 Surplus years. Of those 12 surplus years 5 were during Republican Presidents and 8 were during Democrat Presidents.

    The current negative turnaround of $12 trillion dollars for the period 2001 to 2011 has been sheeted home as follows.

    $3.3 Trillion or 28% due to revenue declines especially given the movement of manufacturing offshore to China.
    $1.8 Trillion or 15% due to Increased Military spending especially due to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    $3.5 Trillion or 21% due to tax cuts to the wealthy
    $1.2 Trillion or 10% due to increases in non defence spending.
    $1.3 Trillion or 11% due to Interest cost increases.
    $0.7 Trillion or 6% due to the Obama Stimulus
    $0.2 Trillion or 2% as a result of Medicare Increase.

    So the Republicans want to stop Medicare which is only 2% of the cost of the deficit while retaing tax cuts to the rich representing 21%.

    Any blind person can see that 50% of the problem is tax cuts for the rich and the offshoring of manufacturing due to the demands of conglomerates like WalMart. But the Republicans balme a 2% increase for the mess of their country. Talk about those who will not see,

    If you look at the figures Obama is directly repsonsible for 8% increase and Goerge W Bush is directly responsible for 36%. Yet they have the audacity to blame Obama.

    The US is still relying on manufacturing to pick up as their way out and as I have stated before they have no manufacturing left so how can it pick up. I honestly see no way out of their mess if they continue down the same path.

  74. Shane Qld, how can one balance a budget where no one believes they need to pay tax. One where the big boys expect to be bailed out.

    There are countries around the world where they pay tax, sometimes big taxes, and remain a vibrant community.

  75. Just on Sky – Limited News wants to meet with Gillard tonight with regard to discussing ‘issues’.

  76. The only thing Julia needs to tell LTD news, is they will have all the opportunities to explain all their lies,deceit and grievances under oath in front of a full judicial inquiry, BRING IT ON.

  77. I wonder where America went wrong – from the land of Revolution and liberté, égalité et fraternité to a country with literally suburbs of impoverished street people sleeping it rough. There was supposed to be the trickle down effect where the wealthy mostly via philanthropic upper class supported a lower class. Somewhere along the line the wealthy decided that there was more money to be made via the exploitation of the working classes. Thus endeth my Socialist rant for the day.

  78. Well the way I see the new deal, is that the blame will lay with the Tea Party and the Republicans when it goes wrong.

    Maybe then the public will demand better policies, and realise that you cannot keep cutting taxes and ignoring your obligations.

    Maybe they will realise a country’s budget does not work the same as your personal budget. It is not the same as a business budget.

  79. We should also be aware of the Oppositions future agenda re IR laws. The driving force behind WorkChoices was to kill the unions.

    For the last few years, since the Keating years, productivity has been going backwards.

    We need to look at why Mr. Hawke and Keating were successful in this regard.

    The answer does not lay in making IR more stringent. The answer does not lay in the worker, working harder. They are doing that now with no success.

    The answer lies in all of us working more cleverly. As Mr. Hawke put in place, pulling together with consensus in the workplace. The boss does not have all the answers, his employees could sometimes know better.

    I noticed that Ms. Bishop is alleging that the PM has given all away. Does not fit in what many of the media are saying. They appear to be agreeing with the PM, that the Health agreement is different, but still achieves all it aim for, mainly because the situation has changed. Most appear to support the signed agreement.

    Ms. Bishop would be in trouble if she was expected to discuss the deal, not her perception of it.

    When is Ms. Bishop going to ask the question, that the PM asked of the reporters who question her. That is how has she given everything away. Good question as the journalist back off, resulting in more mature questions being asked of the PM.

  80. Rates on hold.

    Cash Rate still 2% lower than when the “levy for everything government” ” interest rates will always be lower under a coalition” government was defeated.

  81. Shane, but then Howard always boasted that high interest rates were the sign of a thriving economy… Thinking about it the economy has been remarkably stable compared with the Howard years.

  82. CU, agreed. Every time Hockey has attempted to put forward a policy, Abbott has shot him down in flames.

    A classic Rodent manoeuvre, Min

    Wow, Tom R @ 7.37am, Campbell Newman and his amazing technicolour hindsight. He should market it. I suspect that had he actually been premier, that bit of opportunistic rubbish would have been, “We coulda, woulda, shoulda, didn’t, do a bloody thing!”

    ME @9.47am, does the idiot realise he endorsed what he says Gillard did regarding the carbon “tax”, ie she took the responsible course of action? And how come no “professional” journalist has managed to pick up the glaring inconsistency, with astonished apologies to the Courier Mail via Pip’s link?

    I consider Tony Abbott the most dangerously unhinged politician ever to disgrace parliament.

    I agree, Min. If he were ever to get the reins of power, it would be the equivalent of Sarah Palin becoming POTUS and God help us all if ever it happens!

    But CU @10.57am, they’re operating on the theory that if you keep repeating a lie, sooner or later it will be accepted as the truth. And if they also hope that if they keep saying it, the government will be destabilised and fall, a tactic which very nearly succeeded during the last election.

    A friend of ours pointed this out the other day. Abbott only speaks in slogans and that’s why it’s so hard to get any traction and score telling points. That and the fact that they haven’t capitalised on his constant contradictions as illustrated by ME on this thread.

    We can only hope that as Rupert’s iron grip on the msm is prised open, more journalists will suddenly remember what their job is and we will finally get some decent unbiased in depth reporting in this country.

    Howard always boasted that high interest rates were the sign of a thriving economy…

    Only if they were high when he was in the driving seat, Min. It was remarkable how high interest rates were the sign of being rooned if Labour was in power.

  83. ‘Abbott only speaks in slogans and that’s why it’s so hard to get any traction and score telling points.’

    He has been programmed as a small target and will become PM unless we can find somebody better to replace him.

    There must be a compromise candidate?

  84. Jane, and another classic rodent manoeuver is to never promote talent. Tony Abbott became leader of the opposition on 1st December 2009. We are therefore looking at over one and 1/2 years of Tony Abbott..no wonder we’re all fed up to the back teeth at the sheer mention of him!

    So what has Tony actually done in one and 1/2 years? Policy? Reshuffles? Promotion of up and comers? ZILCH is what Abbott has done and ZILCH is what he intends to do.

  85. Re the “radical article” that appeared in today’s Limited News paper in Brisbane, do not be fooled, the author is often prone to writing ‘controversial’ articles just to get a response, which seems to have worked well. Make no mistake, it is a Limited News paper all the way…. Read, laugh, enjoy but do not get get sucked in, it is the right wing rag of the north.

  86. el gordo @6.13pm, I can’t answer that question. The Libs are devoid of talent AFAICS.

    One can only hope that msm grow some and turn the blow torch on Smuggles’ constant and glaring lies, inconsistencies and backflips. If he’s called, some sense may possibly prevail at Lib HQ and instead of just being spoilers and naysayers, some sensible policies may be proffered for consideration.

    Mind you, if Smuggles remains in charge that will be a very faint hope.

    Min, the Rodent not only didn’t promote talent he actively stifled and discouraged it and removed it whenever he could. The current crop of no-hopers is a direct result of the Rodent’s manipulations.

  87. Jane @7.01 just remember News Ltd / Fox news has given the USA the Tea Party so don’t expect News Ltd that has 70% ownership of the newspapers, is trying to get 100% ownership of pay television” will grow some and turn the blow torch on Smuggles’ constant and glaring lies, inconsistencies and backflips”.

  88. Sue, I agree that the Emperor’s clammy claw will need a fairly substantial blow torch applied to it, but I think there is a tiny trickle of of rats checking to see if they can still swim.

    Given the scandal erupting in both England and the US, I don’t think it will be as easy for Rupert to get his hands on 100% ownership of pay tv as it would just a few weeks ago.

    And an inquiry into media ownership will hopefully make it impossible for
    Rupert and any future Rupert to own more than 25% (ideally) and for a ban on cross ownership.

    I think it would be a very easy decision for any inquiry to drastically limit media ownership given the Murdochracy’s scandalous behaviour. And I would imagine cross ownership would not be regarded too favourably.

  89. Speaking of the hornéd one, SBS showed a program a few days ago called “Murdoch-Breaking the Spell?” which features interviews with, among others, the Guardian journalist who broke the hacking story in England, Jo Booker the Pulitzer Prize winning NYT investigative journalist who also delved into the Ltd News culture at NOTW, and gay British MP Chris Bryant who has been campaigning against the Murdochracy for years.

    Sean Hoare, a former NOTW journalist spoke about the toxic culture at NOTW. According to him, the orders from the top were to get the dirt on the targetted celeb, politician or other newsworthy person by any means, legal or not. The pressure to was enormous; get the dirt or lose your job!

    There was a private detective who worked 80 hrs/week illegally acquiring anything from solicitor’s notes to medical records from their offices and hospitals. The police were selling them information left and right, ffs!

    Michael Wolff, a Murdoch biographer said that the Emperor feels no attachment to any country or place. He has created his own world and reality-Ltd News. No wonder Smuggles relates to him so well; they both live in alternate realities of their own manufacture!

    This isn’t going to go away; the corruption has started from the top and flooded down to the lowest levels and I don’t think the Australian branch will be abler to claim with any degree of credibility, that they are, or have been immune from, the culture.

    I wouldn’t mind betting shredders have been working overtime.

    I don’t think ToM should waste much time waiting for Rebekah Brooks to take over operations here, she could be be very grey by the time she gets out of gaol. (I must admit she does have the most amazing hair, although I am very disappointed that a fellow blood nut has behaved in such an unprincipled way! :lol:)

  90. Augustus re: the NBN is an expensive waste and consumers are voting with their wallets for more convenient, appropriate and affordable technology?

    Which is…???

  91. CU, having spent the entire day and $300.00 trying to fix a Telstra fault, then last Sunday including calling in the police to assist my 87yr old mum…anything would be better than what we currently have 😦

  92. Min, I refuse to have anything to do with Telstra and have done so for years. Late last year, they cause me to have both my phone and broadband switched off. It took me over a day to discover who I was allocated to. This I am afraid had to be done on my mobile.

    Iprimus were terrific. They did not charge to reconnect.

    After following leads, like being on a treasure hunt, ringing every one I could complain to, I eventually trace down who I had been switched to. They allowed me a few day free services until Telstra got around to fixing their mistake.

    The mistake was that they could not read phone numbers and they switched mine by mistake. I feel sorry for the person who was supposed to be connected. It was business number.

    I attempted to get Telstra to take some responsibility but there is no way you can get connected to a manager.

    The local technician was not to blame. He was given the wrong number. I know the man, whom I found to be very obliging.

    The only other problem I have had with the line was also the responsibility of Telstra.

    I have read of ISP’s being blamed for things going wrong. It is my guess that many times, Telstra is to blame not the ISP

    I will have a party the day Telstra hand over the lines to NBNCo. I believe that many ISP will do the same.

    I have found them to be dishonest. I have been battling them for years. I can honestly say this is the only firm I have had any real trouble with.

  93. CU, the technician who arrives described how he didn’t have TV connection for 8 months….

    Anyway, a great afternoon actually spent with technician Alexander who turned out to be a Sanyasin from Mullumbimby. So all’s well that ends well.

  94. Min, it is the system that is at fault. Mavbe if they made themwelves available to take complaints, they might perform better.

  95. CU, the system is very much at fault. Today I have spent approximately 10 hours and 12 service calls on something that should have been just a standard procedure…I think that I’ll play music…

  96. Thank you too dyoll…

    I have been a bit ranty today haven’t I..most definitely time to zen out and especially to breathe.

  97. Good luck Min.

    Drum a little better tonight with Annabelle Crabbe and David Marr.

    David took to task Ms. Bishop’s comment that the PM should get a thicker hide. David reminded Ms. Bishop that when she was criticised, the paper was flooded with cos-plaints from her and the Liberal Party.

    Don’t these people use a little nous. Does Ms. Bishop rally believe that people forget about what occurred on the past. Ms. Bishop and her ilk should take heed of the old maxim, that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Maybe they should heed the one that said least said, soonest mended.

    What annoys me most about the insults sent by the Opposition, is not the insults they send but the fact that they yell and scream when the slightest insult is aimed at them.

  98. And it’s not like she needs any extra stupidity, is it?

    And of course her breathtaking analysis explains why copper is being ripped out all over the actual world and being replaced with fibre as opposed to what’s happening in Sophie universe.

    DIDO is 1,000 times faster, eh? Faster than what? The speed of light? I can’t wait to see that!

  99. Jane, it is not only speed that matters.

    It is important how much can go each way at once.

    It is important that distance does not slow the speed.

    What is important is the cost of maintaining the system

    Mr. Turnbull was just as devious today.

    I say good on to this government if they are the only one in the world to do it properly.

  100. CU re it is not only speed that matters.

    It is important how much can go each way at once.

    And that is very much the most sensible statement that I’ve heard all day. I will take this as recommendation. Yep for me from now on it’s got to go each way at once.

    But sensibly, clearly the NBN is going to be a success..which is why Turnbull is basically a free spirit and Abbott will be watching his every move.

  101. Come to think of it, I think that I was being somewhat generous towards T’bull in my poetical description of a free spirit. I meant free spirit in that he basically no longer has a portfolio worth thruppence.

  102. CU, I agree. Speed is not the only important thing, Volume is also important. It was a crack at Mirabella’s willful utter stupidity.

    She should be cautioned with that saying “It’s better to close your mouth and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it.”

    I think Mirabella is one of the rudest most unattractive people around. I saw her on QandA once and she shouted over the top of anyone she disagreed with and ignored Tony Jones repeated attempts to shut her up.

    One of the panellists, I forget who now, stopped her in her tracks to loud applause. I have to say I was itching to slap her! It would have been great to have Paul Keating on the panel telling her to shut up and listen and she might learn something! I really miss that man.

  103. “think Mirabella is one of the rudest most ”

    She is one of the nastiest. She leaves the men for dead with flinging insults across the chamber. Belinda Neal might have got a lot wrong but was right in relation to Ms. Mirabella.

  104. “Volume is also important. ”

    It is important too, that it can travel in both direction at the same times.

    Wireless and copper do not have these properties.

  105. I support the NBN.

    el gordo, I imagine Turnbull does as well, but he has to bite his tongue and go along with the gag. He knows he’s standing on a landmine Smuggles has laid, so he just has to bide his time.

    Having said that, I don’t think Turnbull is who the Libs need as their leader. I think he’s every bit as power hungry as Abbott and as lazy and undisciplined in his own way. I really don’t think there is anyone in the party at the moment who would make a barely tolerable PM.

  106. Wireless and copper do not have these properties

    Exactly, CU. That’s what is so frustrating with all the ludicrous nay saying from the spoilers. That and the strawman business plan argument. The NBN is public infrastructure traditionally provided by the government, yet there is this idiotic demand for a business plan.

  107. Jane, “It would have been great to have Paul Keating on the panel telling her to shut up and listen and she might learn something! I really miss that man.”

    just for old times sake, I to miss the man

  108. I couldn’t believe the naivety Mirrabella’s claims in her article I can still hear her teeth nashing on those Beta cassettes even this morning. As for the NBN there is one thing about it I do like that doesn’t get too much of a mention and that is security, wireless is easily hacked even with the latest encryptions, copper wire can be tapped onto without anyone noticing or detecting radiated signals from, but Fibre optic cannot be tapped unless you are actually at the termination point and it doesn’t emit, as well as the usual technological advantages.

  109. I like that one from Conroy, that the Opposition’s plan is like building the Sydney Harbor Bridge with only one lane….

  110. ‘I really don’t think there is anyone in the party at the moment who would make a barely tolerable PM.’

    There must be someone, we have to look a little harder. After the next election, which the Coalition will win in an unprecedented landslide, Barnaby Joyce may need to organize his numbers to supplant Tony.

    I’m assuming that Barney wins a lower house seat.

  111. Re Barnaby – that might take some doing as there has never been an elected Country Party/National Prime Minister. There have been two temporary CP PMs but neither were elected. Fadden when Menzies was kicked out in ’41 and Earle Page for a couple of weeks in ’39. And this was during the halcyon days of the CP.

  112. “we have to look a liitle harder”, no WE don’t just you and your mates on the right will need another opposition leader and hopefully not someone
    talking the economy down
    creating fear
    demeaning scientists and economists
    talking up civil unreast

  113. That interview with Mr. Hockey last night was bizarre. He based his arguments against Labor by changing the facts. It was just a North Atlantic global downturn.

    One thing he did was continued the Coalition policy of talking the economy down.

    He sounded like he was on something.

  114. ‘One thing he did was continued the Coalition policy of talking the economy down.’

    Them and the ltdnews both

    It really a farce

  115. Tom R, thanks that was the word I was looking for. I had settled between comedy and black humour.

    The interview was unbelievable.

    Of course for the first time he was asked questions and to justify his answers.

    To top it off, he gave the impression that he treated everything he was asked, as a joke.

    That is a rare experience for anyone in the Coalition.

  116. I just had some bad news, that my mother’s dear neighbor John Mac’ has passed away. John was the reason that I have written on gay rights – by gee I’m going to miss his emails.

  117. Min @ 8.43am, gold! Conroy was in good form. Then we had that dreary halfwit Andrew Southcott whining about plain packaging and how small business will be rooned because of it.

    I asked the resident chain smoker if it would cause him to give up and was treated to a blunt “NO!” And that would be the reaction from all those dedicated smokers out there, I’d say.

    So small business will still be able to sell cancer sticks at the same rate and won’t lose out. And tobacco pedallers won’t have to spend extra money putting pretty pictures on the packets. Win, win!

    After the next election, which the Coalition will win in an unprecedented landslide….

    Don’t count your chickens, el gordo. There’s 2 years until the next election and that very nice $18,000 tax free threshold. As well as the sky staying in place after the carbon price kicks in and compensation delivered to the sky rocket.

    And I wonder how many pensioners will be willing to give up their increases and compensation to pay off Smuggles CO2 belching mates?

    And really, you are taking the p*ss suggesting Barnyard, aren’t you? Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel!

    He sounded like he was on something.

    Yeah, stupidity pills, CU. The Northern Hemisphere meme is on of Neil’s favourites.

    The opposition may have to get used to being asked some hard questions. Apparently, the Mirror group in the UK is now in trouble over phone hacking. This will get bigger and the tabloid press is on notice, I think. People are getting sick of the way these mobs get their stories.

    It’s not like the old scandal sheets like The Melbourne Truth, it was a bit of a laugh and no-one actually believed the stories and I don’t think there was the malice which seems implicit in today’s tabloid press.

    I did have to snort this morning when the ABC breakfast news hosts blamed Julia Gillard for the constant Smuggles saturation of the press. Apparently, if she just didn’t make any appearances or announce government policy, they wouldn’t have to run to hear Smuggles’ pronouncements morning noon and night!

    They also quizzed Conroy on the ABC Arts programming and were promptly put back in their box. As he said, they get their triennial funding which hasn’t changed and it’s up to the ABC to allocate funds. In other words, sheet the blame home to the right people.

    Min, so sorry about the death of your Mum’s next door neighbour. You have often mentioned him and how fond you and your Mum were of him. She must be very upset to lose her long-time neighbour and friend. Please pass on my sympathy to her.

  118. Cringe…I’m a smoker. Believe me, I have tried to give up – tried the patches and had an allergic reaction and ran out of places to put them due to the raised lumpy welts. The tabs caused such extreme nausea that I was non-functional until midday.

    The only things that worked were herbal cigarettes, but guess what they’re not available for sale in Australia except online. Plus they are not recommended by the Quit organisation as Quit figure that one shouldn’t be puffing on anything at all even if nicotine free.

    It’s the same as the poker machine lobby, making $s from an addiction.

  119. I laughed at that bloke. He did not seem to realise that he was putting business profit before the health of people.

    Any small business worth their salt would have realised years ago that selling cigarettes was at the most a short term option.

    Surely there would not be many who have not planned for the day, when there was no longer a market for tobacco.

    The Liberal at this time appear to be saying that the government is responsible for protecting markets of business regardless of the fact that market for what they are selling no longer exists.

    By the way, I have not heard anyone congratulate the HM for her success with the Alcopop legislation. It appears the young are consuming less alcohol.

  120. Min, I’m married to a100/day character. He’s given it up more times than Smuggles has changed what laughingly passes for a mind. It is a very hard addiction to break, unfortunately. And bloody expensive.

    CU, he is a first class twat, but is in good company in the Coalition. And all their huffing and puffing is just that-more CO2 and very hot air pumped into the atmosphere. Smokers aren’t going to stop smoking because they can’t see what brand it is, the addiction is too strong. To paraphrase Jesus-smokers will always be among us.

    I’d love to see a vox pop of smokers and their reaction to plain packaging. Even if some say they’ll give it up, it will still be a tick for health benefits alone. Once again the Smuggles Set flogs a dead horse for their masters in big business.

    I did read that alcopop sales are down and have noticed that not only did the sky not fall in, but no pubs have been harmed in the application of this law. Win, win again! 😆

    el gordo @2.24pm, me too.

  121. Jane I also was a heavy smoker for most of my life. Cost force me to give it up twice. The first when Menzies bought ibm his horror budget. I was young and I was not going to give him any of my money. The second time I bought an expensive computer with the money I saved, Three years ago, it was easy, on the pension I could not afford to continue.

    It is cost that has the most influence of giving up.

    I found the best way was to go cold turkey and it was not easy.

    I am concerned for my son. Mostly because his father’s family seem to be prone to lung diseases, not like my side that live to nearly 100.

    The aim is not to stop establish smokers. They would already be put off by what has been done up to now, if that action worked.

    The aim is to stop the young from taking it up. That is why the tobacco companies are worried, they need addicted smoker to survive.

    The tobacco companies reaction tells me the government might be onto something.

  122. CU, I agree – any deterrent to stop young people becoming addicted has my vote.

    The smoking bans have helped a lot as it is now mostly no longer socially acceptable for people to smoke. Australia has been the leader in this legislation, plain packaging helps because there is now no longer any reason for the manufacturers to promote their product as one pack isn’t discernable from the next packet.

    Exactly CU, the louder they scream..the more likely it is that they believe that the legislation will be effective.

  123. Min, I think another reason I gave it up, was that it just became to hard to smoke. Sneaking out doors all the time.

    It is also a cheap option for the government.

    The shame is that I enjoyed smoking.

    The ad they have on now, saying if you fail try again is spot on. The problem is that unless you want to give up, you will never succeed.

  124. Allen Carr’s method has a good reputation and there’s a similar program that worked for me – it’s almost 9 years since I quit on my first attempt – willpower, patches and pills, surprisingly, weren’t needed. Stumping up $400 probably helped with motivation though 😉

    The secret is to also break the psychological habit – the physical is actually the easy bit (even though it may not seem so at the time).

  125. Old smoker bags has given up God knows how many times-5 years and I thought I had it made, only to catch him with a fag hanging out of his gob. Since then we’ve had stints lasting 3 hours to 2 years, but he always succumbs to the siren song of nicotine, the swine-like creature.

  126. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2011/08/04/abbotts-european-holiday-might-make-him-hot-and-bothered/

    Tony Abbott has begun his holiday in Europe today. It’s a welcome respite from the endless negativity that has surrounded his recent campaigning on the carbon price. But one wonders why he chose to visit a region that has had a price on carbon since 2005 and now has the largest multi-national emissions trading scheme in the world, since according to the arguments he’s making, Europe should just about be in the Stone Age by now.

  127. jane the good thing is that he’s not stopped trying to give up for it means he genuinely wants to, and that’s a big part of the battle. I know this because it’s exactly what I went through 20 years ago and I was up to 40 a day and started smoking when I was 12.

    When I made up my mind to quit and then kept trying to over more than 10 years one day it just snapped how stupid smoking was and that was it I never smoked again, though at times the cravings were bad. No cravings now but I sometimes dream of smoking.

  128. Don’t stop trying to give up even if the nicotine addiction keeps niggling you to fail. You’ve given up once so there’s no reason you can’t again, AND NO EXCUSES.

  129. Shane, I will..just not good timing at the moment, but I’ll get there. Thank you for the encouragement.

  130. Min @9.44am, it wouldn’t surprise me if he comes back and without a twitch tells us Europe is in the Stone Age. He has absolutely no shame or principles.

    ME, thanks for the encouraging words, but he has absolutely no intention of giving up, I’m afraid. Even if the bloody things cost $100/packet, he’d keep smoking us into bankruptcy. You’d think that being a diabetic on insulin, those health issues alone would be enough!

    He’s not the only one, though. His mother went into hospital to have a kidney removed a couple of weeks ago and the path to the main entrance of the RAH was littered with people in hospital gowns sucking on cigarettes!

    And a friend of ours who had some very serious surgery a couple years ago, said that when he was allowed outside,he was amazed to see people with drips attached smoking! I despair at how dumb some people are.

    Min, you obviously are committed to giving the foul weed up, so keep on trying-be like the little red engine.

  131. Jane, thank you I will.

    Sometimes stubbornness can set in….

    I remember when dad was at St Vincent’s, same thing people in hospital gowns and on drips outside smoking in the freezing Melbourne Autumn.

  132. This may (or may not) help:

    Nicotine Addiction 101

    Education Is a Quitting Method

    Is it possible to become so educated and motivated that the deep inner mind no longer sees ending nicotine use as a threat, so much so that the body’s emotional fight or flight anxiety alarms hardly ever get sounded? Roughly half of quitters report that recovery was far easier than expected. Is it possible to so embrace coming home that fears evaporate and it feels like a cake-walk?

    Did you know that unplanned attempts, which avoid accumulation of self-induced fears, are up to 2.6 times as effective as planned attempts?

    The Allen Carr and Smokenders programs are just a formailsed way of learning to give up the psychological side of the problem – the physical addiction is gone within 72 hours…

    I’m just a puff away from a pack a day 😉 (But haven’t had ANY cravings for almost 9 years)

  133. Hi Jane

    I was speaking to my sister for the first time in a few months and she smokes like a chimney.
    Found out she has been crook with terrible Asthma and lung infections and in hospital and off work until yesterday. But while we were talking she was coughing like she was gonna die and yet still inhaling a ciggy at the same time.

  134. Thank you Bacchus…I ended up with raised welts from a*se to t*t due to the patches. It’s only Friday lunchtime..all this talk about smoking, I think that I might have to get the boss’s permission for an early opening of the bar.

  135. I went through Smokenders before they only catered to businesses. Superb but expensive program with I believe the highest success rate going. Throughout the whole program until the very last night you continue to smoke, but as Bacchus states they play psychological games with you, in fact brain washing you to some extent along with many other psychological tricks along the way.

  136. Exactly ME – worked very well.

    Interesting, a cleaner at work back then had been through Smokenders with her employer, but wasn’t successful. I wondered, at the time, if it had to do with the extra motivation of having to fork out $400 of my own money. (I notice they don’t have that program anymore (corporate only, as you said), but the Home Quit-Kit is only $267)

    That Nicotine Addiction 101 site looks good value though…

  137. Mobius, that’s a problem with me being a psychologist albeit an educational psychologist..I know what they’re trying to do.

    The only thing that really worked with me was Herbal Life herbal cigarettes but because these are not approved by the Quit organisation they are just about unobtainable. The idea is that you can still smoke but because they have zero nicotine then you puff away and eventually the nicotine addiction leaves one’s system.

    These are not approved of by Quit because they don’t believe on puffing away on anything.

  138. Shaneinqld @12.19pm 5 August, absolutely amazing, but when I went to visit my mother in law at the RAH, I was amazed at the number of patients outside puffing their heads off.

    And a friend who had serious surgery 3 years ago reported seeing patients with their drips attached, outside sucking nicotine down as fast as they could lick! Ditto people suffering serious heart disease. No wonder doctors are reluctant to treat them.

    I should add neither my mother in law, nor our friend smokes.

    Min, the Herbal Life cigarettes sound great. A pity they’re not readily available; smokers still get the hand to mouth experience, but are being weaned off their nicotine and additives addiction, which I thought was the reason for trying these programs. I figure if it works, go for it.

  139. It’s a good thing that Tony Abbott will be refreshed after his trip to
    Europe…..Tony Windsor is after him 😀

    http://www.tonywindsor.com.au/releases/110726.pdf

    MEDIA RELEASE
    26 July 2011

    Let’s have a REAL Community Forum, Mr. Abbott

    Windsor invites Opposition Leader to Town Hall debate on climate policy

    Independent Member for New England, Tony Windsor, is inviting Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to an old style “Town Hall” debate on climate policy at a “real” community forum in the New England, rather than the exclusive National Party “rally” he’s going to address in Tamworth on Wednesday.

    Constituents have complained to Mr. Windsor’s office that
    Wednesday’s so-called “community Forum” is invitation-only.
    Certainly, invitations aren’t available or even mentioned on the website of the event’s host, Nationals Senator John Williams.

    An invitation seen by Mr. Windsor asks the chosen few to bring their invitation with them.

    Mr. Windsor believes that if you are going to hold a community forum, you invite the whole community.

    Go get him Mr. Windsor !!

    cont., http://www.tonywindsor.com.au/releases/110726.pdf

  140. I am sure the rest of Mr. Windsor’s electorate are quite aware of Mr. Abbott’s trickery.

    Country communities can be funny. They stick with their local heroes, not blow ins.

  141. Pip, interesting that Tony Windsor calls this a “real” community forum suggesting that previous forums have been somewhat less than real…the one where Tony Abbott mingled while Julia was stuck on a stool in the middle of the stage comes to mind.

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