“DON’T WRITE CRAP. CAN’T BE THAT HARD”

 
It’s been a week since Prime Minister Gillard addressed the National Press Club, 14th July, 2011, and the sum total reportage of the hour long address is “Well, the first thing I would say is, don’t write crap.”   [applause from audience]  “Can’t be that hard.”
 
This is what the PM said immediately afterwards.
 
Journalist Mark Riley began :-

MR –   Mark Riley from the Seven Network Prime Minister, I’m always asking about you so I want to ask you about us.
 
 
PM-    Let’s talk about you for a while.
 
 
MR –   Yeh, let’s talk about us.  Me and my friends here.  I think a few of us have been reflecting on this in the last few weeks and certainly in the last couple of days, very sharply, on our responsibilities.   

When we see a gentleman in Gladstone trying to encourage people to
take up arms against the government, a woman in Melbourne being shoved out of a public  meeting and harassed down the street, to tears, you confronted in a shopping centre by people screaming,   Liberal Party members calling you a liar, and then a radio station coming here and broadcasting all day, in the first day back of Parliament, to whip climate change opposers into a frenzy, how do you see our responsibility, and the way that we should be reporting this matter ?

 

PM      I think we will have a long debate about media ethics in this country,  but if I could put it as clearly as I can, I’d say to you, don’t write crap.  Can’t be that hard…….and when you have written complete crap, I think you should correct it.
 
So I’d like to see as many column inches confirming that there’s no 6.5c a litre charge on petrol, as I saw reporting Tony Abbott’s claims that there would be. 
 
I’d like to see as many column inches and minutes on the TV news reporting that the future of the coal industry is bright and strong, as verified by a huge coal company like Peabodys,
 
as I saw coverage of Tony Abbott standing in a Peabodys mine saying the coal industry was going to close down.
 
I’d like to see as many minutes of coverage and column inches on the steel industry and the work we’ve done with the steel industry, so they are satisfied with the arrangements that we’ve made about carbon pricing.  

I’m not saying they’re not under pressure.  They’re under pressure because of the global economic winds we were just talking about, but they are satisfied about carbon pricing.

I’d like to see as much time devoted to that as was devoted to Tony Abbott’s claims when he stood next to steel workers, that Whyalla was going to be wiped off the map. 
 
And there’s a new one today, we’ve had Nystar, they’re involved of course, in making zinc.
They’ve put out a statement that says, “the impact of this carbon tax is not considered to be  material to Nystar”.
 
This is against a Tony Abbott claim, if we have a carbon tax, that smelter closes down.
 
Well, I think the Nystar accuracy needs to get as much exposure as the false claim did.
 
And if we saw some of that, some accuracy and facts out there,  I think what I had the opportunity that I had to do at the community forum in Brisbane last night, and I don’t mind taking criticism on the chin, that’s part of my job,  but when I was there talking to people about the facts, and talking to people afterwards, more casually, you could see, once they got that information, the sense of re-assurance it gave them.  It changed a lot of minds.

Now you would say it’s not your job to change people’s minds about a government policy and that’s true, but I think it is your job to get information to people that’s accurate and rigourous. 
 
Some of the crazier claims we’ve seen in this debate need to be put to one side and the accurate facts get out there.
 
          
 
           AS THE PRIME MINISTER SAID……”CAN’T BE THAT HARD”
 
 
           Well, that went straight around the S-bend.
 
          
           The very next day Malcom Farnsworth wrote on ABC’s The Drum

Selling the carbon tax: less is more
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2795610.html
300 Comments
Malcolm Farnsworth
 
Julia Gillard should have stayed in bed this week, for all the good her carbon tax campaigning did.
In fact, she ought to just shut up about the carbon tax and get on with something else.
This week smacks of the same hopeless political strategy that Rudd and Gillard have fallen for before, the strategy that says you have to run around the country like a maniac and never shut up.

It’s also the strategy that gives Tony Abbott a daily free kick as the media treat the circus like an election campaign and give him equal time.
Take Gillard’s appearance at the National Press Club yesterday. Her speech on climate change was quite good, but it was overshadowed by the personal development lecture from the Unley High school girl.
Last night’s television pictures duly centred on Gillard’s teary moment and her injunction to the press gallery to “stop writing crap”. Forget about any coverage of the economic imperatives of the carbon tax.
 
Not surprisingly, the journalists did exactly that, and so did Mr. Farnsworth !
Which maniac has been running around the country and never shutting up ??

203 comments on ““DON’T WRITE CRAP. CAN’T BE THAT HARD”

  1. Bravo, Pip.

    PS – ToM will be along very shortly to tell us how bad Julia is, followed by Neil’s rant about government debt and refugees sewing their lips together. The big question is . . . Who’ll come first?

  2. Pip, sadly this seems to be it. Why bother getting out of bed to try to sell the carbon tax when all of the media are – instead of treating this as an issue worthy of serious consideration and debate – it’s hey here’s Tony.

    But you have to give it to our girl, every morning the PM picks herself up and gets on with the job.

  3. Hi Pip

    Congratulations on an excellent article, a very enjoyable read
    thankyou.

    I see the Barrie Cassidy also decided the Government should stop the talk about Carbon Tax, somebody else said they should stop blitzing the country. The Carbon price has been released one week, has anyone asked Mr Abbott to stop blitzing the country, he has been blitzing the Country for 18 months. I wish Abbott would shut up.

    I am delighted to see Miglo back writing again, welcome back Mr handsome Miglo,you have been missed by thousands.

    (Surely it’s time for the Government to break from the incessant carbon tax debate and start talking about something else, anything else.)
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-21/cassidy-gillards-counterproductive-carbon-tax-conversation/2803232

  4. Lyn..re I wish Abbott would shut up.

    We had a topic up a short while ago about having an uncontrollable urge to utter the words shut up whenever Tony appears on the tellie.

    Yes Migs is fairly terrific isn’t he..not that I’m prejudiced in this regard. 🙂

  5. Thank you Lyn 747, the pleasure is all mine when it comes to ‘crappy’ media reportage. 🙂

  6. Abbott won’t shut up. He’s on a roll. And with the media in his pocket, why wouldn’t he.

    Abbott is but a heartbeat away from taking the crown from Julia (sorry Kevin…bad metaphor). All he needs is for someone on the government side to fall under a bus, or just quit, and we’ve got a hung parliament.

    With neither side able to supply a Speaker, would Julia have to call an election ?

    That’s the reason Abbott is tearing around the countryside sprouting whatever bullshit suits the mood of his particular audience. He knows the media won’t ask questions. He’s working the percentages. His window of opportunity gets smaller with every day the passing of the CT legislation gets closer.

    If Kevin doesn’t make it back in time for the next sitting does anybody doubt that Abbott wouldn’t be tempted to reconsider the “pairing” arrangements. The Liberals have form when it comes to such conventions…

    I know Rudd is a man of faith, but he couldn’t have chosen a better time to get his ticker fixed: Heaven’s switchboard will be jammed with prayers for a quick recovery (from the Left)

    On second thoughts, given that the Left is composed mostly of godless heathens, maybe it’ll be the prayers from the god-bothering conservatives that will carry more weight.

    Either way, all the best Kevin. No prayers from me but. I don’t want you taken out by a lightning strike.

  7. ‘It’s also the strategy that gives Tony Abbott a daily free kick as the media treat the circus like an election campaign and give him equal time.’

    The PM will continue to be out-classed by Yabot, a second rate politician, simply because she has misjudged the mood of the people.

    Yabot’s small target strategy is far more realistic than Julia’s big target strategy.

  8. “The PM will continue to be out-classed by Yabot, a second rate politician, simply because she has misjudged the mood of the people”

    el gordo, do you really think that the PM is that stupid.

    I am sure it is not stupidity that has got her where she is, from a working class migrant parents, in a working class suburb to being PM.

    I am sure that the PM is aware of the alleged mood of the people and might even have some idea of why that is so.

    The PM has belief in her own ability to change that mood, not give in because it is too hard.

    It could be as the PM has said, she believes in doing what is right, not throwing the towel in because another vain/vane man is transversing the country, on tax payers money, trashing all in his way.

    A man who only aim in life is to be PM, no matter the cost to the country. A man who cannot acept the voters decision.

    The PM must also be aware that by insisting in doing what she considers to be correct, she is lessening her and Labor’s chance of being re-elected.

    I have not seen any evidence that she is in the habit of ignoring reality or hiding her head in the sand.

    What I have observed is a intelligent, quick witted woman who can hold her own in any company. A woman who can give as good as she receives.

    A woman who is acknowledge by all as a wonderful negotiator. A woman who is capable of give and take to arrive at a decision.

    I suggest, el gordo, the race has not yet finish.

    The necessary leglisation will be passed. Australia will be a better place. Industry will have stability. If it means that Labor loses the next election, so be it.

    It will not be the end of the world. What scares me is that the Opposition leader will be in power, and too late we will find out about what he intends to do, that is if he knows himself.

  9. Catching up, the race certainly hasn’t finiished yet.
    I wonder whether the weathervane will even be the leader at the next election, because a number of Liberal/Tory elders are pushing for industrial relations ‘improvements’, and they may not be too confident of Mr. Abbott staying on their message.
    He’s good at sloganeering but he does have a tendency to change his mind ….often.
    Apart from that, if by chance there is another hung Parliament he would not be the best negotiator, unlike the PM.

  10. Plain speech can obscure truth as much as inflated language

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/plain-speech-can-obscure-truth-as-much-as-inflated-language-20110721-1hqtx.html#ixzz1SlEkXMrR

    The current reporting on the carbon tax has seen an almost relentless focus on style, stunts and presentation: in addition to the tiresome criticism of Julia Gillard’s appearance, witness the emphasis on her supposed woodenness, accent, choice of words and speaking pace. Against this superficial backdrop, the question of Gillard’s credibility extends beyond the charge that she lied to the voters prior to last year’s election – Laura Tingle notes that ”so much of the apparent anger about the carbon tax isn’t about the carbon tax at all but about the Prime Minister herself”. This focus is perpetuated and reinforced as columnists delve into Gillard’s public persona: exploring ambiguities, attacking perceived contrivances, and wondering endlessly who ”the real Julia” might be, as if this mattered more than her policies.

  11. Pip, I agree with Mr. Howard, the next parliament will have a large majority.

    I also agree with him that it is impossible to pick the winner at this stage.

    People are ignoring the fact that the PM is not stupid and is not one to give up.

  12. “Laura Tingle notes that ”so much of the apparent anger about the carbon tax isn’t about the carbon tax at all but about the Prime Minister herself”. ”

    I believe she is partly right. It is about how false perceptions of the PM have surfaced.

    I am not sure it is about what the PM has said or done.

    Once these perceptions have become entrenched, it is going to take a lot of work on the part of Labor and their supporters to turn what people perceive around.

    I do not find the PM wooden and fail to understand how this has come about.

    To me, the PM comes across as a warm and friendly person with no airs of her own self importance. The PM strikes me of being a calm person and of a modest nature.

    You only have to look at the way children respond to her. They seem comfortable in her presence.

    The PM does have something of the schoolmarm about her. Is that a bad or good thing.

  13. CU, I am certain that a lot of this ‘rage’ against the PM is being confected by the media. Where are the mass rallies which compare with for example the anti-Vietnam War marches? If there is ‘rage’ out there, it’s certainly not enough to convince people to drag themselves out of their cosy loungerooms.

  14. In, the truth the PM has gathered support. It has come from many powerful people in society. The PM has support of the union movement, except for one man that has his own agenda and left the Labor Party years ago.

    Many industrialist support her. Many leading business people support the PM.

    Yesterday we had Mr. Turnbull saying we must not reject the science and calling for climate change action not to be politicalise.

    The loud rabble, I suspect are of much smaller numbers than the noise they make indicates.

  15. Min, he could not even get this rabble out onto the street.

    Maybe because they are a little old and have better things to spend their time on, like taking holidays around Australia.

  16. ‘I believe she is partly right. It is about how false perceptions of the PM have surfaced.’

    Going on the article in Crikey comparing the teles rporting on the GST and the Carbon Price, a quick look at the disparaging images of Howard and Gillard, howard all a statesman-like, Gillard in any awkward posotion a photographer has latched onto. It really is no wonder there gets to be a persception problem.

    I’m sure there are images out there that are not catching the PM at her worst an most unflattering, and I’m sure they could find them if they looked. It can’t be that hard?

  17. Tom, I think that this is where the essence of the problem lies. It is not just bias, but that the MSM has reached the stage where it is feels free to indulge in misrepresentation of factual information.

  18. The press is owned by those who feel a sympathy for the capitalist class. That they spin the word ‘tax’ and pin it on Julia while leaving Tony off the hook, seems fine to the hirelings in the corporate and most of the State media. Meanwhile, political ignorance is cranked up via the emotional word ‘tax’ and the public polls further and further away from Julia. There is a massive psy-war going on and Labor is losing battle after battle not because it is inept or presenting a carbon pricing scheme which is too complicated; but because the those charged with telling us about the news are all too aware that their jobs are on the line if they dare to report what the PM says as opposed to constantly bringing up the issue of how she ‘stabbed Rudd in the back’ and now wants to impose a ‘tax’ on Howard’s battlers. Political ignorance is combined with historical amnesia e.g. Tony’s ‘stabbing of Malcolm’ and that Labor’s plan is to put a price on the carbon emissions of the 500 biggest polluters and subsidise Howard’s battlers with tax breaks and pension boosts.

  19. Mike, I agree absolutely and it’s very well worth repeating your comment…

    “Labor is losing battle after battle not because it is inept or presenting a carbon pricing scheme which is too complicated; but because the those charged with telling us about the news are all too aware that their jobs are on the line if they dare to report what the PM says as opposed to constantly bringing up the issue of how she ‘stabbed Rudd in the back’ and now wants to impose a ‘tax’ on Howard’s battlers.”

    And of course the current catchphrase ‘liar’. However, I have noticed that Abbott is starting wear this one out – there is something about bland accusations – the more that you use them the less impact they have.

  20. Mike B)

    You could bet your life that if the new tax system for 2012 massively favoured the rich the negative reporting would have been quickly wound down.

  21. Shane, I believe that the government is going to be tackling all sorts of upper class welfare – firstly they had to wait until they knew a Bill had a hope of being passed by the Senate.

  22. I think it also exposes the mind set of those still working for ltdnews that something like that is considered appropriate for their defense.

    Interesting how a corporation who were responsible for exposing Grog in our ‘right to know’, now reckon we know enough.

    It is the same as them telling us that we have had enough of Gillard selling the Carbon Price. The only thing that tells me, is they are worried it might get traction.

    They never told us we were sick of yabots fear mongering and deliberate and sustained attacks on consumer confidence.

  23. Min,
    That was awful and gives an indication of how tacky and insensitive the media can be.
    Mike B,
    I agree with you, that it’s political ignorance.

  24. Mr. Abbott is now saying that the drop in boat people has nothing to do with the Malaysian Solution but to do with the boat sinking at Christmas Island, It is the fear of death that has slowed the boats.

    I have always believe that the sinking of the siev 10 and the loss of hundreds of lives slowed down the boats during Howard’s reign.

    The people where also given some hope for being allowed to come from Indonesia,. As far as I know, we did not take the number that was promised.

    We have people who have been stranded for a further two or three years with hope and the picture of the siev 10 fading.

    People only get on leaky boats if they have loss hope and their money running out.

  25. CU, let me count the ways that Tony Abbott is wrong on this one.

    Abbott is saying that boat people have been detered because other boat people drowned. Death I suppose is a good deterrent, if you are a smug Tony who sits there with a broom handle shoved up his backside.

    Of course it’s everything to do with the Malaysian solution. People pay Indonesian people smugglers to get to Australia and if the destination is Malaysia then the people smugglers have lost their sales pitch.

  26. Here is the outcome of ALP policy decisions

    http://www.news.com.au/national/another-riot-erupts-at-christmas-island-detention-centre/story-e6frfkvr-1226099032151

    “TEAR gas has been used to quell a riot at the Christmas Island immigration detention centre for the second consecutive night………..”In response to the incident, AFP members were required to deploy a range of use of force options, including… bean bag rounds, CS gas.”

    Most ALP policies end in disaster.

  27. Neil, refugees come by boats matter who is in power. And who set up Christmas Island ad a detention centre? That pox on humanity, the low life dirt bag Howard. And if you don’t think that this sort of stuff happened under Howard then you are completely brain dead.

    Now don’t litter Pip’s good thread with the shit you continually dribble. I’m really not in the mood for your pathetic rants. Nobody is.

    Now try and offer some constructive commentary or shut the fuck up.

  28. Well Miglo, it is Neil’s brand of the truth. We all know he has to ignore many facts to come to his conclusion. There are none so blind who will not see.

    Miglo he will be very happy if Mr. Abbott obtained power. I am not everyone else will be.

    I do not believe that even Mr. Abbott knows what he is about.

    The newer members of the Opposition seem to be a tad arrogant and as far to the right as one can go

    We do not hear from any moderate members, maybe they do not exist anymore, or been gagged with the threat of death. Maybe they just cannot bring themselves to carry out their leaders orders and spread negative rubbish. They have nothing positive to say. .

    One, Mr Slipper accused of ripping the government off once again. Another in South Ausytalia accused of shop lifting and assault. Yesterday we have a senior member of the Opposition undermining his leader. At least what he was saying was the truth, which is unusual at this time.

    Yes it is a very exciting and positive future that Neil is saying we should be givng our support too.

  29. All Liberal policies are disastrous. It is the party of intentional egregiousness and unfairness.

  30. There was a little prick in kindy who used to delight in kicking over the sandcastles of us normally socialised kiddies.

    He wouldn’t stop until the girls were in tears.

    His name was Neil too.

    Could it be…?

    He finished up in a juvenile detention centre. Quite sad really.

  31. I read crabb article Mangrove Jack

    The only thing that struck me was the hypocritical message considering her recent output.

    Next article will be straight back to the sideshow.

    If it was real, there would be real anger felt there. There isn’t, it was merely like a third person glimpse of ‘oh. look what we’ve done’

  32. TomR

    I think you must be referring to a different Crabb article.

    The one I linked to (and I checked the link) was very Abbott-specific.

    Perhaps your “her” refers to Crabb, not Gillard ? But I still don’t follow.

    This was (IMO) the take-away line.

    “This is why Mr Abbott is a very, very effective Opposition Leader. He pursues his opponent all day, and sleeps soundly at night unhaunted by the ghosts of his own inconsistency. Rather blackly, Mr Abbott’s central case against Julia Gillard is that you can’t believe a word she says.”

  33. No, I got hte sorrect article Mangrove Jack

    And, alone, it would have merit.

    But when you ask the question, why is yabot continued to be allowed to get away with this, and more importantly, why has he been allowed to in the past. That last bit is where the hypocritical part comes in. Crabb has been happy to pretend to sit on the sidelines of the sidewhow, and then to gasp with surprise at the result of her inaction.

    Sorry, but she is not a spectator, she is part of the act. And the reason he is allowed to get away with it is because reporters like her have allowed him to. It is probably too late now, the horse has bolted. All she is doing is reflecting on the carnage their spectating has resulted in.

  34. I still cannot work out why the focus is on the Opposition when the election is 2 years away.

    Just saw they are now starting to shoot cattle thanks to another Gillard stuff up.

    It looks like you people do not like it when the media puts the ALP under scrutiny.

  35. Oops, sorry Tom, I have. I caught your email on my iPhone yesterday morning. When I sat down after work to respond it had disappeared (which happens once the computer at home is turned on – the emails then go into Outlook). Last night I wasn’t near the computer; I was out experimenting with some red wine. 🙂

    This arvo I will definitely respond.

  36. It would have been interesting if Howard was in power and we had three days of rioting at Christmas Island.

    I would think that every left wing blog would be abusing Howard and his failed policies.

    But with Labor in power nothing but silence about your Lords and Masters.

    It should be remembered when Shadow immigration minister Gillard said “Another boat on the way. Another policy failure.”

    Just another policy failure by the ALP

  37. For Neil of Sydney

    Report: China to launch carbon trading trial
    Official news agency confirms government is planning to move forward with carbon trading pilot scheme

    http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2094638/report-china-launch-carbon-trading-trial

    In what could represent a major boost to the global carbon market, China's official state news agency yesterday reported that the country's government is poised to introduce a carbon trading pilot scheme as part of a package of measures designed to curb emissions from energy-intensive industries.

    The Xinhua news agency said the government would introduce a pilot scheme with a view to eventually establishing a national carbon market.

  38. Tom R at 10.27am

    I can’t argue with your sentiments.

    It’s a long time since I’ve read any Annabel Crabb. One has to be in the mood.

    Mike Carleton however never disappoints.

    Today he ponders Alan Jones’ misogynist tendencies and suggests that there is treatment available. It used to be cold sitz baths and shock treatment.

    I wonder what Mike had in mind.

  39. Mangrove Jack, here is a link to Mike Carlton’s article, and you’re so right, he never disappoints. 😀

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/as-scandals-go-this-ones-a-shocker-20110722-1hsr4.html

    As scandals go, this one’s a shocker

    THE PUBLIC and media onslaught upon Julia Gillard goes way beyond the political and personal. It has lunged into vicious misogyny.

    You see it with the Ditch the Witch and Ju-Liar placards at public rallies and the snarling front pages of the Murdoch tabloids. It festers on talk radio where, as Media Watch reported on Monday, she’s been called a lying bitch, a piece of crap and a menopausal monster. This airborne filth gets only the occasional tut-tut from the rogues’ gallery of woman-haters, closet wife-beaters and assorted sleaze-bags who host commercial talkback these days.

    and on the behaviour of Parliamentarians

    WATCHING THE House of Commons on BBC World this week, I was struck by how much better they are than our rotten lot.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/as-scandals-go-this-ones-a-shocker-20110722-1hsr4.html#ixzz1StbgLhWI

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/as-scandals-go-this-ones-a-shocker-20110722-1hsr4.html#ixzz1StbE2RvQ

  40. More on the “vicious misogyny”, and this really is the lowest peice of trash in that particular swamp !!
    Thanks to Kevin Rennie’s link

    Fear and Loathing in Australian Politics

    http://annarose.net.au/2011/07/22/fear-and-loathing-in-australian-politics/

    Posted on July 22, 2011 by annastarrrose
    You may have missed it if you are outside of Sydney, but local station 2UE took radio to new lows with a sketch last week. It pertained to be a recording of the Australian Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young having an orgasm in response to the carbon price. While some obviously found it funny, imagine being a young woman thinking about entering politics listening to 2UE that morning. Imagine being a woman, like Senator Hanson-Young, already in politics.

  41. I wondered that too, MJ. The only options I can come up with are not legal.

    A couple of months ago I downloaded some of his podcasts via iTunes (for personal amusement). One in particular was an interview with Jones being conducted by the poor sod who took over the morning show while he was off ill.

    When asked by the stand-in host how Jones felt, he started off with a quivering, slow faint voice which I had trouble hearing and understanding. I thought the poor fellow must have been in agony.

    Within 30 seconds he was screaming at the top of his voice about how bad Julia Gillard and the Labor Govt are.

    He’s an odd sort of bloke.

  42. Of course, but football discussions are just TOO painful…..and wipe that grin off your face please !!

    I’m shattered….hell, Port will probably beat us next week, and you, sir, will have more to ‘Crow’ about 😀

  43. “One in particular was an interview with Jones being conducted by the poor sod who took over the morning show while he was off ill.”

    Migs, I take it that was unintentional 😉

  44. Hang on for this unbelievable piece of news, Abbott tells lies.
    Abbott defends broken Medicare promise

    TomM and Neil should be demanding he immediately standdown and leave politics forever any moment now, and their outrage and cries of LIAR should be something to behold going by their outrage against other politicians they claim tell lies.

  45. MJ, sometimes we write something that just doesn’t look right. We can’t put a finger on it other than it doesn’t look right. Then we send it off into the internet. Followed by embarrassment.

  46. I am here.

    I will agree with you if you think Gillard should resign over her much bigger lie.

    Two wrongs never make a right. Gillards lie changed the election result. She made a big deal about getting community approval.

    Actually I guess it was not Abbott. The change to the safety net would have come from higher up.

    But what is your point??? Rudd lied about political advertising. he made a big deal about this in 2007. Promised not to do it or he would resign.

  47. ‘Two wrongs never make a right.

    I actually the point made here nil is the astounding hypocrisy displayed by not only yabot, but every part of the cheer squad who have called for an election on the back of an alleged lie, and the complete lack of concern of yabots previous lie.

    Something there about glass houses, which nobody (except belatedly crabb) seems to care about.

  48. Carbb rightly calls Abbott for the constant liar he is, much much worse than Gillard, for Abbott also lies to his own. But Crabb also rightly points out that Abbott can sleep soundly at night after lying all day because he knows he will not be called out for his lies the next day.

    Abbott also lied during the last election campaign, some whoppers actually, so according to his own standards he should have immediately sacked himself the day after the election. What’s his excuse, he didn’t win.

    But wait that can’t be true either because Abbott has said many times he didn’t lose and the current government is illegitimate. So if Abbott is the government in the wings then why isn’t he standing down thus holding himself to the same standard he’s holding Gillard?

  49. Mobius, the hypocrisy of Abbott is breathtaking. If he goes back on his word it’s OK. If Gillard goes back on her word he demands an election.

  50. Neil, one more time.

    The Prime Minister made that comment before the election and she also stated in a speech, before the election, which is still on her website, that she wanted an ETS.

    Putting a price on carbon with the intention of taxing the biggest polluting companies is the forerunner to the ETS.

    No, average Australians will not pay the carbon tax, they will be compensated for the small rise in costs incurred by the carbon tax.

  51. Former PM Rudd spent far less than former PM Howard.

    http://neovox.journalismaustralia.com/legitimate_government_nel.php

    Government spending on advertising has long been contentious with previous Federal Governments increasing the amount spent on advertising, particularly during the pre-election period.

    In 1995 former Prime Minister John Howard was critical of the preceding Keating Labor Government’s $A9.4 million ‘Working Nation’ advertising campaign, saying it was “a disgraceful sham”.

    “There is clearly a massive difference between necessary government information for the community and blatant government electoral propaganda,” Mr Howard told ABC’s Media Watch program.

    This did not prevent Mr Howard spending almost $A2 billion on government advertising campaigns while in office. The most contentious of these was the WorkChoices campaign.

  52. In case you people do not realise is that politicians are human beings. We all lie.

    However Gillards (and Swans) was at point blank range to change an election results. They ended up 72 seats each.

    This lie really gets me annoyed because Rudd made a song and dance about this. They are now advertising things that are not even law.

  53. Abbott lied to change the election results as well and worse as was proven after the election he had no intention of honouring a lot of his committments.

    Abbott would have been wiped out in the election if he had not lied and he knows it. He would be wiped out now if he were honest for just a short time and knows it. He would lose the next election in a landslide if he were honest with the Australian people and he knows it.

    So he goes around lying everyday. But what do you do Neil? Make excuses for him and do a lot of “look over there at Labor”.

    You are being as dishonest as the man you worship so much.

  54. “Abbott would have been wiped out in the election if he had not lied and he knows it. ”

    Actually Abbott did not lie. A lie is something intentional like Gillard said about there being no carbon tax.

    And it did not affect the election in 2004. You could say Costello lied because he was the one who forced the changes.

    But Labors lies about advertising really annoy me because they promised not to do it. I have no problems with them advertising Fair Work Australia as this is now law of the land and people need to know about the new IR laws.

    But advertising health reform, mining tax and now carbon tax is just wrong. It is political propaganda

  55. Neil, the next election is 2013…I suspect that the Libs are still trying to recover from the last one when Gillard was able to successfully negotiate to form government..but awww…Tony wasn’t.

  56. I’m actually pretty fed up with all sides of politics.

    Although you’ve got admire the PM for sticking to her guns with the carbon tax.

    I suspect that Tabbott’s shrill will run out of steam once it’s all passed.

    Even Bob Brown’s beginning to look like a fumbling, bumbling old git, when he was questioned about what exactly he would want an investigation into the media to cover. He just looked kind of “lost” when it came to “detail.”

    Pity really.

    Anyway, the election’s still another 2 years away.

    I though the Annabel Crabb article this morning was really interesting, particularly the observation about Abbott going about saying practically anything he likes regardless of how far out of step with the truth his comments may be.

    I’d really like to see Talculm leading the Liberal Party. It will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next 12 months or so…

  57. Reb, hi gorgeous. Abbott’s race is run..who is going to be interested when we have a new and exciting (for want of a better description) Parliament ahead of us. Who is going to give a flying you-know-what about Abbott for the rest of the year.

    With the Greens in the Senate, then it’s a step to the Left.

  58. Reb, I have bad news for you.

    Given that you’re a wee bit fed up with politics I’m afraid you’d not find Canberra to your liking.

    But we do of course have many other attractions. 🙂

  59. PIp & Miglo

    I was at Docklands last night – guest in the medallion club. Best seats in the house but couldn’t handle youngsters calling me Sir all the time. Anyway, back to saving the planet.

  60. “Anyway, the election’s still another 2 years away.”

    Only if Abbott honours the pairing convention or nobody (on the government side) gets crook (like, seriously crook, resulting in a bi-election).

    The odds aren’t astronomical.

  61. Mangrove, just dredging from my knowledge of Constitutional Law..it still won’t be enough to call another election. If Abbott refuses to honor the pairing agreement then there are always private members bills and with the Greens in the Senate, parliament will still be workable.

  62. Min at 4.54pm

    I hope you’re right. My concern was who could form a government on the floor of the house without the confidence of the house, the reps being the principal (?) chamber when it comes to the colour of the government .

    I’ll have a bit of a google and see what I can learn.

  63. This is what I found after a quick google Min. It refers to the House of Commons, but our system is the same (I think ?)

    “Where an incumbent prime minister loses his overall majority, but where
    no other party has a majority, he may remain in office. If he is then defeated
    in a no confidence motion or an amendment to the Queen’s Speech at the
    meeting of the new Parliament, no request for a dissolution can be made by
    him. The presumption is that the leader of the opposition (the next largest
    party) will be appointed prime minister

    ”What happens if there is a hung parliament”

  64. bottles are made of glass Migs 😉

    I like to drink my beer from a glass. Rip the cap and down she goes 🙂

    cans are for campers

  65. Neil, because the government’s policy is a deterrent to the people smugglers. The whole point is not whether refugees arrive via boat or plane, the issue is people smuggling.

  66. To funny Min.

    The governments changed policy encouraged people smuggling.

    This is what you voted for in 2007.

    We went from 6 to 6,000 because you voted for Rudd.

  67. Are you patrolling the spam in your boat Min?

    It appears someone from a Sandia Tea Party is trying to tell us that the New mexico Cap & Trade Progra (the one ulman lied about to our PM) ‘May Be Laid To Rest’… again apparently lol (on the ‘confused’ thread)

    Although, a quick search tells another story. More wishful thinking from the denialiti

  68. “Neil, because the government’s policy is a deterrent to the people smugglers. ”

    Please tell me why??

    We had 6 boat people in detention in 2007. Rudd then changed the laws. We now have 6,000.

    And I do have a clue??? This is all due to Rudd and the people who voted for that liar.

  69. Neil, regardless, the total humanitarian intake has been between 13,000 and 14,000 since about 2004.

    And everyone who did time in Nauru eventually got settled in Australia.

    What’s your point ?

    The Malaysian Solution is now a guaranteed deterrent, or as long as Scott Morrison keeps weeping crocodile tears over the use (alleged) of the cane by Malaysian authorities.

    Just which constituency is he talking to ?

    The UNHCR doesn’t appear to be listening.

  70. Tom, ta.. daughter Briony who contributes to the blog on occasions arrived..we had Indian takeaways. I’ll fix it..mumble, mumble, men who expect things to be fixed and straight away..

  71. Neil, it’s because the people smugglers are Indonesian fishermen who can/or rather could promise their cargo a voyage into Australian waters. If people are going to be taken to Malaysia, then the people smugglers cannot promise them this.

    This is a people smuggling issue.

  72. Only mentioned it cos ya had just posted Min, and wasn’t sure how nasty the link was (I didn’t click it, but others night have)

    There was a lot of nasty looking javasript there.

    Just proving yet again why you are the worlds premier blogmaster (blogmistress??)

  73. “The Malaysian Solution is now a guaranteed deterrent,”

    TOOOO FUNNNY

    Everything this piece of filth of a govt touches turns to mud.

    WHAT DETERRENT????????????????????????

    My point is that we have lost control of our borders and that genuine asylum seekers are not getting places because of the queue jumpers.

    You are giving praise to a alleged solution that has not been shown to be a solution.

  74. “MJ..an aside to Migs..am I right or am I right.”

    Migs is otherwise preoccupied taking the moon’s azimuth with an empty bottle I think Min…

    I’ll post this anyway, just in case anybody is still sober enough to be interested:

    “If the Government lost a no‐confidence motion and it was apparent that the Opposition could command majority support in the House, the way would be open for the Governor‐General to appoint the Leader of the Opposition as the Prime Minister of a new government. It has been noted that ‘[c]onvention requires that the Governor‐General commission as Prime Minister the person who holds the confidence of the House of Representatives to lead the government’.25 One scenario where a new election could be required would be where the Government lost majority support in the House and the cross‐bench members did not support the Opposition to form government—where neither of the major parties, in other words, had majority support in the House. “

    <a HREF=http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/pol/HungParliaments.pdf<”Hung parliaments and minority governments”

  75. It’s tempting to post some links to some of the old comments on Blogocracy, just to illustrate how the views of some have changed over 3 years.

  76. “this piece of filth of a government” sounds like Neil of Sydney, must be a person who follows Anal Jones.
    And I am tired of these Righteous nut jobs.

  77. That raises an interesting cunumdrum for Abbott Mangrove for if Abbott did become PM in the near future under those circumstances he would immediately have to sack himself to hold to the same standard he holds Gillard.

    But because Abbott is the most dishonourable, despicable and dishonest leader this country has ever seen I’m certain he won’t hold himself to anywhere near the same standard he expects of others and I’m sure he will be the worst PM Australia has had.

  78. “I am just telling the truth” yep I am sure Anal says the same thing as he looks in his mirror. And then Anal can also stop the “filth” being broadcast (via the delay switch). And Neil of Sydney can stop referring and writing of any Australian elected Government as “filth” and showing some respect.

  79. Neil, why don’t you consider your blood pressure and nick off to Menzies House. You’ll feel right at home there.

  80. I am so angry tonight.
    When I read about Oslo and the supposed “Right wing Christian Fundamentalist” .
    Last week we had an idiot in Qld at the Joe Hockey community meeting talking about “taking up arms”, There are nut jobs out there and we don’t need them stirred up.

  81. “Sue, trolls don’t practice good manners….ever; what’s more they are very bad losers.”

    Well if what you say is true I can only say i learn’t from the experts.

    Have you ever read anything Miglo said about Howard???

    On this thread at July 22, 2011 at 10:58 pm Miglo “That pox on humanity, the low life dirt bag Howard.”

    No I am just responding in kind. The ALP is a corrupt and immoral political party elected by corrupt and immoral people.

    And nothing will ever change my opinion.

  82. Miglo was basing his opinion on the lies, LIES. Whoppers in fact.

    AWB.
    Weapons of mass destruction.
    Children overboard

  83. So 50% of our country is “corrupt and immoral” according to Neil of Sydney. Says more about “Neil of Sydney” and the thoughts he lives with than any other thing he has written. Thank you Neil of Sydney for outing your true self.

  84. Sue, sometimes I wonder whether Neil of Sydney and Tony Abbott are one and the same.

    Can’t accept the will of the people.

  85. The Australian’s War on Science 65: Stuart Rintoul misrepresents a scientific paper

    Ah the article that was completely misrepresented by The Australian and another shameful incident by one of their journalists, who interviewed Watson and then proceeded to deliberately misrepresent and distort that interview, even print things Watson hadn’t asserted at all.

    When his department wrote to the Australian correcting the erroneous information the Australian ignored the letter and continued to publish the misrepresentation.

    Ltd. News just keeps sinking to new lows in terrible journalism and just as Abbott is trashing the Liberal brand long term Ltd News is trashing it’s brand.

    ——————-
    Oh and really nothing to do with anything. Last week I saw the headlines America swelters through deadly heatwave. This week I saw the headlines America continues to swelter through record heatwave.

    So glad there is regional cooling happening as you gotta wonder what effect a record extended heatwave will have on the US’s mountain glaciers.

  86. No Tom, it doesn’t reaffirm stupidity, it reinforces it and then takes the stupidity level lower, reinforces that and then steps the bêtise lower again.

    And to think there are some who actually quote News Ltd as a source and take its proven drivel and deliberate misreporting of the facts as being credible.

  87. It must be hard to break a forty year habit!

    My 88 year old father (who still work as a boiler inspector) has, for the that time, wandered out to the front, every morning to pick up The Australian newspaper.
    I called over to see him yesterday and there on his desk was The SMH.

    “I couldn’t put up with the crap any longer!” he said.

    So forget this ‘knowing your enemy’ stuff and vote with your feet.Give the oz the flick!

    I stopped buying the Weekend Oz years ago. And to be honest i’m quite looking forward to it going behind a paywall!

  88. el gordo, I’d suggest the mood of the people would be different if they weren’t being force fed a diet of Smuggles’ complete bullshit by the msm.

    However, with the Rupert’s empire crumbling, idiots like Devine might be reduced to writing their crap for bin liners like the Messenger.

    Mike B ) @10.33am 22 July, particularly as Smuggles will actually be imposing a carbon tax which he will be handing to his mates like Twiggy & Gina.

    Min @11.02am 22 July, As most of the commenters said, just when you thought the Murdochracy couldn’t sink any lower, it’s found new and disgusting depths to plumb. Loved one commeter’s name for him-Rumpot Murdercock. Says it all really.

    …….if you are a smug Tony who sits there with a broom handle shoved up his backside.

    A delicious turn of phrase, Min. Do you think he’d mind if we attached the rough end of a pineapple, or would he fail to notice?

    Yes, dear old Anal. Perhaps Chopper should be called upon to silence this disgusting and poisonous bag of volcano gas.

    Neil, re the 6 to 6,000 refugees. Tell that to someone who actually cares. I for one, don’t care that there are 6,000 people waiting to make Australia their home. I welcome them.

    “AWB.
    Weapons of mass destruction.
    Children overboard”

    YAWN

    Interesting that Nell finds it boring that one of the Rodent’s more egregious lies resulted in this country illegally invading another. Apparently, in Neilworld lying to start a war, or to deceive a country about asylum seekers is inconsequential. Tell us Neil, how many Iraqis and Australian soldiers have lost their lives as a result of the Rodent’s yawnworthy gigantic porkies?

    I think you should also add lying to the Parliament to the Rodent government’s CV. Doesn’t make very attractive reading, does it?

  89. Migs, small point of order. Handrab’s dad didn’t have him, it was Handyrab’s mum. (Don’t worry, I’ll email with an explanation).

  90. El gordo from this morning – thank you for that but I think that Briony studied this in her 1st year of Marine Biology Coastal Management. In fact I can remember writing a paper on similar.

  91. ‘The analysis reveals a consistent trend of weak deceleration at each of these gauge sites throughout Australasia over the period from 1940 to 2000.’

    It’s probably nothing, but during a time of rapid global warming it comes as a surprise.

  92. El gordo..don’t ask me eldest is the Marine Scientist, youngest is PhD molecular bioscience, biofuels. I was hiding behind the door when scientific ability was handed out.

  93. For stuff’s sake el gordo please stop trolling.

    Straight out of the troll’s handbook and very poorly executed at that.

    No context, no reference to the full article and what it actually states. Just one paragraph of an unreferenced piece that could be mean anything and lo and behold when you read the entire piece and the letter to the Australian who deliberately misrepresented the article, as el gordo is trying to do, then you get a very different picture and outcome.

    Why is it that the deniers have to resort to misrepresentations, lies and distortions in an attempt to get traction? Surely if they are so certain of being right they can just publish their scientific proof and make public all their data just as the climate scientists are continually doing.

  94. Mobius, according to youngest and she is the PhD candidate..it’s her jars of green gooley-gum which featured on Catalyst – the debate is O-L-D. It’s old and stale and Australia the only 1st world country still going on about it.

    It’s quite embarrassing – Australia once again relegated to the boon docks while the rest of the world moves on.

  95. “And my oh my. Your Dad must have been young when he had you. ”

    Well that’s the last time I post here! Even NoS gets a better reception!!!!!

    Notwithstanding, it’s good to see you back to form, Migs.

  96. ‘misrepresentations, lies and distortions’

    Watson said the Australian gauges show deceleration is happening, but of course there must be a simple explanation because all the models couldn’t be wrong.

    Observation is outdated according to the Lambert Crotch Sniffers.

  97. Actually I’m getting quite tired of going to all the sixtieth birthday parties that are happening this year.

    Why did I make friends with those older than me???????

  98. Re turning 60..no comment…but as the saying goes you only feel as good as the man you feel. Any takers?

  99. The observations fall within the IPCC estimates grodo, and, in case you missed it, and the oo has been caught out misrepresenting scientists on a scale not seen since … you quoted them

    What a goose

    I note that bumktoon is rabbitting on about some scientists in Virginia who are apparently under ‘criminal investigation’. He repeated this on hte radio recently, where he mentioned he is going to sue someone else cos they have called him on his BS

    Will his lies never cease?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney_General_of_Virginia%27s_climate_science_investigation

  100. Strutchbury from the Australian done the Coaltion cause no harm this morning on Insiders. He repeated Mr. Abbott;s slogan verbatim.

    I thought the extreme media performers consisted mostly of Piers. Bolt and Jones. It appears that there other seeking a similar crown.

    What I cannot understand how it is a shocking thing to say that it might just be a good idea to ask the media in this country some questions.

    The question I asked, is why does the media thinks it is abovr the law, criticism absd scuntiny.

  101. Then this has nothing to do with Tim Ball’s reckless libel against the hockey stick man…’who should be in State Pen, not Penn State.’

  102. Monkton threatens to sue anyone and everyone who calls him up on his bullshit and reveals his lies and distortions, but he has never taken one small step to carrying out any of his threats.

    Yet another example, as is el gordo’s last post, of deniers who disinform and distort proving they have nothing credible to counter the science with.

    If the climate science is so wrong and so obviously in error that el gordo without reservation and with absolute certainty states global warming isn’t happening then why must he and the likes of Monkton have to resort to all this fabrication? If they are so right then it is simply a matter of tabling their papers and making openly available their data. That they make statements out of context, mostly do no source their information, more often than not get what is being claimed completely wrong, where it often contradicts what they state its meaning is and worst of all falsely attack the scientists. The difference between the likes of Monkton and el gordo is that Monkton is being paid a motsa by vested interests to peddle his lies and distortions, el gordo it appears does it for free out of ideological stupidity.

  103. “Neil, re the 6 to 6,000 refugees. Tell that to someone who actually cares. I for one, don’t care that there are 6,000 people waiting to make Australia their home. I welcome them. ”

    I welcome them to. we should be taking more. i would be taking 50K/year and cut down on skilled immigration.

    But we do not want a system where who gets here first gets one of the spots. We only take 14K/year and boat people are jumping the queue meaning that people in camps miss out.

    I find your comments strange since the ALP condemned locking people up when Howard was in power.

  104. There is no queue, unless places like Somalia could help by taking the few who arrive ‘near’ out shores.

  105. No Queue??? Not according to Gillard

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/may2011/rema-m12.shtml

    “Gillard stated: “Do you think you would [attempt to travel to Australia]? … You’ve only got one shot. You’ve only got so much money…You’ve only got one life to lose. And you [throw in] all your money…to potentially lose your life and go to the back of the queue in Malaysia.”

    Gillard’s so-called “queue” amounts to a virtual life sentence, with refugees either trapped for years in Malaysia, which is notorious for abuses of basic democratic rights, or forcibly removed back to their country of origin.”

    This long lost queue suddenly appeared when the ALP needed it for political purposes after having denied for years that it existed.

  106. A regional solution creates a regional queue that doesn’t currently exist Neil. Is that so hard for you to comprehend? We would still have queue-less asylum seekers from China, Afghanistan, India, Iraq and various African countries, just not from Indonesia, Sri Lanka and Malaysia and maybe Burma.

  107. Don’t you think they might bypass the queue?? What happens when our 800 refugees have come and we start getting more boat people???

  108. Beats me how the ALP’s refugee policy is better than the inhumane Libs

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/detainee-cuts-throat-in-protest-20110723-1htzg.html

    “A male refugee has cut his own throat and another his arm during a protest at a remote Queensland immigration detention centre………………Asylum Seeker Resource Centre spokesman Pamela Curr said today some of the detainees had been at Scherger for up to 20 months and were protesting out of frustration over the slow processing of their asylum claims.”

    We only had 6 boat people in detention in 2007.

  109. Personally I don’t think they’re much better at all Neil. Why? Simply because the aim is the similar to what Howard was doing with the “Pacific Solution.” Was that good policy? And why?

  110. Did anyone notice that there was no Opposition Leader featured on the news congratulating Cadel Evans? Isn’t that remarkable since the PM did and he always wants equal time, plus he’s a keen cyclist and would want to have that mentioned. But not peep out of him.

    Is it because Cadel Evans has demonstrated pro-Tibet? Does that suggest he might be a bit of a Greenie? Does anyone know more than I could see in Wiki?

  111. Isn’t this a ludicrous connection to make by Farmer.

    Evans is a professional bike rider and has achieved greatness.

    Abbott rides a bike, sometimes for charity.

    Ergo. Abbott is the only appropriate politician to comment on Evan’s feat.
    Ergo Evans is great then Abbott is great.

    As an aside I listen to Farmer on LNL once a week and the man has one of the most irritating whining voices, made worse by stressing words when defending Abbott or damning Gillard.

  112. Neil of Sydney

    “The ALP is a corrupt and immoral political party elected by corrupt and immoral people.

    And nothing will ever change my opinion.”

    Here is our federal Liberal Member !!!!

    http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/07/23/time-to-make-a-stand/

    Are you that blinkered that you are unable to see corruption is in all sides of politics, including your beloved Liberal Party.

    There is also a Liberal Senator currently up on charges for stealing $92 worth of groceries from a supermarket.

    What amazes me is that you can be up on charges for stealing $92 worth of groceries but a slip in procedure resulting in multi thousands of dollars being claimed by a politcian is an oversight and they are simply requested to pay it back.

    How many of our bloggers who work for an employer would be simply asked to repay $20,000 if they wrongfully took it ?. I have a funny feeling they would be sacked and this should happen to policiticans as well. There are no degrees of honesty.

  113. Neil, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Indonesia would now be open to a similar deal.

    Indonesia would have little to lose and much to gain.

    Australia already assists Indonesia in caring for refugees. These people are not welcome in Indonesia but have nowhere to go. That is why they get on leaky boats.

    It would be in the interest of both countries.

    There is no reason we cannot take from Indonesia as we are going to from Malaysia.

    We take, I believe 18000 of these people a year. It makes more sense to take the majority from our own region.

    I believe that it is also a part of the new arrangements to encourage other countries in the region to also take more of them in.

    I would like to see us take all the ask for help. This in the modern world has become politically impossible, which is sad.

    The next best thing is to get some order into the situation and to allow as many in that is politically possible.

    Maybe with a more orderly system we will be in the position to take more.

    Neil, if you lock people up and give them no future they react in a horrible way. This is human nature.

    The terrible things that happen in camps, happened under Mr. Howard and will happen under any PM of any colour, as long as people are treated as criminals and are locked up.

    These people have the right to protest as human beings. The opportunity for them to protest are extremely limited, as we have put them out of sight and in isolation.

    Neil, I know it is waste of my time to reply, but at least you know others have different opinions from you and do not agree with you. That is OK.

  114. ‘el gordo without reservation and with absolute certainty states global warming isn’t happening’

    That is correct.

  115. “There is also a Liberal Senator currently up on charges for stealing $92 worth of groceries from a supermarket”

    and assaulting a woman.

    As for the Liberal politician that it is allegedly ripping off the government, he is an habitual offender. He has already paid back many thousands from previous over the top claims.

  116. CU

    You are correct, he is an habitual offender. I have been following the story with interest to see what the outcome for dishonest and repeat offences will be. Probably a diplomatic posting of his choice.

  117. The latest poll results are still horrendous for the government on both an election platform and the Carbon tax.

    What I do find amazing is all of the die hard conservatives refusing to believe that there has been any voter change from the previous poll and that this poll is manipulated by payoffs from Julia Gillard. The poll swung a measly 2% and the hysterical allegations of fraud and bribery are spat out like venom. 2% is less than the margin allowed for in a poll in the first place.

    At the moment the ALP 2PP is 44% and the coalition is 56%. That is a 12% margin which seems very large.

    However the reality is that it is only a 6% margin.

    In the 2PP stakes if the ALP gains 6% then the coalition loses 6% and the percentages are then 50/50.

  118. Shane, I think that you are spot on in this regard. People under age 30yrs are hugely under-represented in these polls. They are as unrepresentative as a news poll…oh but wait, it is a news poll…

  119. Bacchus

    Allowing for a 3% over and 3% under ( in terms of the fineprint at the end of the polls) plus the 5% uncomitted and the 1% refused ( who are now excluded) we could have a coalition or ALP landslide 🙂

  120. That looks to be a fair assessment Bacchus, at first viewing – however I have 2 factors which I believe are missing. One is the base numbers, that is how many females age 18-34yrs? Two, ten..or two hundred. The other therefore must be the % breakdown of each age group – is it equal portions, or is it say 80% over 60’s and 20% for the rest.

    From newspoll’s own graph we have no idea how the age/gender factors have been weighted.

    I think that I have this right..yoo hoo Migs, if you’re around….

  121. Shane, yes. And also only landlines who aren’t on the do not call register and which are listed..reduces the list of people who you can call to a substantial degree. For example, youngest is in a household of 6 university post graduate students..there is no landline.

  122. Min

    I have many customers who only have mobiles in the home.

    If only landlines are used and only those that are not on the do not call register, how can they only claim an error margin of 3% to 4% ?.

    On that basis the error margin could be 30 to 40% in any given area or poll.

  123. Yes, Min – fair call. All they say is, “The data has been weighted to
    reflect the population distribution. The latest survey is based on 1,155 interviews among voters.
    ” No info on how the “data has been weighted” and no numerical breakdown of the demographics of the 1155 interviews.

    Good question Shane – I’d like to see what Newspoll has to say.

    Sorry, must correct you here Min – polling companies are not subject to the Do Not Call Register…

    11. Can market and social researchers call or fax numbers on the Do Not Call Register?

    Market and social researchers are permitted to call or fax numbers on the Do Not Call Register to conduct opinion polling and standard questionnaire based research. If such calls or faxes include a commercial-type purpose, even if it is not the primary or sole purpose of the call or fax, it will fall within the definition of a “telemarketing call” or “marketing fax” and cannot be made or sent to a number on the register.

    From Do Not Call Register – FAQs

  124. Thank you for the correction Bacchus. I’m not on the register due to the fact that no one has my number..due to being hearing impaired I don’t talk to many people on the phone even though I do have a volume control..it’s still a difficult thing for me to do.

  125. There is also a Liberal Senator currently up on charges for stealing $92 worth of groceries from a supermarket.

    Don’t forget the assault charges, shane.

    And let’s not forget the very unlovely Peter Reith. $50,000 of taxpayers money in phone charges for his son and various hangers on. Of course, the most corrupt thing about that little lot was that he was allowed to get away with it.

    AWB-a lazy $300million, and $5bn that Costello squandered in currency swaps. All swept under the carpet.

  126. jane

    It just amazes me when people cannot see past their noses to admit there is corruption on both sides of politics and the less than satisfactory punishment for offenders on both sides once again shows the obvious bipartisanship that must exist when it suits the 2 party system outcome.

  127. Shane, because people dived into the housing market in WA..bought properties at double their value thinking that they were going to make a killing. Then because property values are so high the mining companies are finding it cheaper to build their own self-catered camps.

  128. Min

    But I thought WA was the boom state and if I would have thought their property prices should be holding up better than the other states. Yet they are not.

    I just think the garbage about the mining states being so much better off is just that, garbage, when it comes to the non mining workers and their overall position.

  129. Jane @1.57
    And with AWB a certain leader of the Nats sold his shares prior to the info coming out. He later retired to “spend time with the family.”

  130. Who are more likely to have land lines. I have a daughter and granddaughter who do not. One uses the mobile phone and broadband.

    The other relies on the mobile phone and for business a mobile broadband. Her neighbour has a land-line, and they share broad band on that. The wireless router sitting in the window. Both have children.

    When my son and grandson leaves, I am looking at naked broad band. It is not available in this area yet. I have a land-line mainly for the Internet. I also have lingo which I mainly use. The land line phone is only for incoming calls. I really do not need a land line phone. I also have a prepaid mobile, mostly for when I am away from home. I am not a person that likes to use a phone but sometimes it is unavoidable.

    To me it the people who give polls balance that are missing. I would imagine that the age group that still relies on land lines are that older conservative type.

    Even when I was working over ten years ago, a lot of what I would describe as welfare clients were using mobiles. It took me a while to work out why they using the more expensive mobile. It was simple, you did not have to sign installation, contacts and are prepaid. . Many have worn out their good will with Telstra and the mobile was the only option.

    Many who rent and are on the move with short leases etc. are unlikely to use land lines. They are just not worth the expense.

    Many couples who both work and spend little time at home would be others that are relying on mobiles.

    So if you take out the young, poor, and those who work long hours, the sample for any poll becomes corrupt.

    The used of mobiles, smart/I phones mobile broadband has rapidly grown in the last few years.

    I also question the value of door to door in many years. People are just not home very much.

    To me the best options would be in the streets, car parks, train stations and shopping centres. I am sure that a balance sample to be worked out.

    This would miss the stay at homes.

    I find it hard to accept today’s polls. Yes some are questionable when it comes to the questions and the size of the samples but this is easy to identify.

    My concern is that I believe that the polls themselves can influence opinion. They should be allowed once an election is called.

    What is needed is research by the polling companies to test how reliable the polling is. Yes, they get right at election time.

    My concern is that there are too many polls. People could be treating them with contempt, either answering with tongue in cheek or thinking they are manipulating the results.

    Maybe I am a little skeptical or cynical. Maybe the polls are spot on, and I have joined the Opposition with wishful thinking.

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