NBN: Are you into broadband or narrow bands

A response from a friend was: Definitely not narrow bands, they cut into the tummy.

Otherwise it seems that Malcolm Turnbull is now out of a job as:

Telstra has confirmed it has signed an $11 billion deal with the NBN Co to allow the new high-speed broadband network to use Telstra’s existing network and infrastructure.

Telstra has also confirmed it has reached agreement with the federal government to disconnect in stages its copper network and participate in the roll-out of the $36 billion national broadband network.

As most here at the Café know, I am extremely non-technologically minded..no matter how I try. But doesn’t this mean that Abbott’s bleat about winding back the NBN has been made impossible?

Over to you…

111 comments on “NBN: Are you into broadband or narrow bands

  1. Abbott handed Turnbull a poison chalice when he told him to destroy the NBN. It was always going to be mission impossible and the cunning, sly Abbott knew it.
    Abbott threw the “hospital pass” to Turnbull to kill off a leadership challenge.
    He did something similar with Greg Hunt when he made him recant his university thesis on an Emissions Trading Scheme.
    Abbott is very much about playing the man and not the ball. He could not give a stuff about what is good for the country, only what is good for his power play.

  2. Luna, we are definitely in agreement on this one. Just from memory Gillard promised Rudd a front bench position – Abbott promised Turnbull a front bench position.

    Gillard gave Rudd the Foreign Ministry and Abbott gave Turnbull the NBN.

  3. “But doesn’t this mean that Abbott’s bleat about winding back the NBN has been made impossible?”

    Yes.

    Abbott’s also scored an “own goal” with his threats to tear up the ETS.

    Tearing up the ETS would also mean tearing up the compensation packages offered to low income earners and pensioners.

    I agree with Luna that Abbott is cunning and sly.

    He’s also not all that intelligent.

    He’s a lazy politician who likes to rant and rave a lot, but scratch the surface and there’s not a lot there.

  4. The NBN is going to change many, many business models and is both a threat and an opportunity to anyone smart enough to see its potential.
    Min you don’t have to understand the technology to open up an online shop with your specialty line of products. You can trade both domestically and internationally with your niche product.
    I have visited Westfield Shopping Centers all over Australia, if you have seen one you have seen them all, they are clones of each other.
    I prefer to buy my hobby stuff, fiction books and all manner of entertainment products on line. I can download my strange taste in music for free and can watch episodes of US TV shows that the Australian TV networks decided they would not broadcast in this country (what arrogance). I watch my TV programs and movies free of advertisement, no wonder the MSM is so vehemently opposed to the NBN as it will cut into and I suspect kill most of their business.
    No way it can be killed off, all Labor has to say is “If you vote Liberal, you will not get broadband”

  5. Reb, I certainly cannot disagree with you there. I think the cunning minus the intellect, and that with a compliant media is a Big Problem.

  6. Being an historian one of the important things thoughout Australia’s history, is due to our isolation that COMMUNICATION is essential. At present only the largest and wealthiest organisations which include universities located in capital cities have super fast broadband. This is an essential tool for universities, medical research centres etc. If this present government achieves nothing else in it’s term, it will go down in history for implementation of the NBN. It’s that important for Australia.

  7. From what I have been reading regarding the actual experts in this field overseas it appears that fibre will be the best option for many years to come.

    While I have wireless myself, due to where I live, I am already a victim of it slowing down when more mobile phones are being used.

    It just seems better sense to lay fibre all over now rather than addhoc compromises in certain areas of the country which will have to be changed sometime in the future anyway.

  8. The Wall Street Journal has reported on the signing of the deal between NBN and Telstra.
    No opinion, just a clear report.
    Not bad for a Murdoch paper.

    Not too many years ago, there was a sheep station about 400 miles from Adelaide, which had a party-line running for many miles along fencing wire, installed by the station owners.

    I’m sure the 21st century NBN will be welcomed with open arms by everyone in the outback.

    Ms Gillard said the agreements – which were a ‘‘big step forward’’ – would pave the way for a range of economic, educational and service benefits.

    ‘‘The NBN is being delivered – superfast broadband is being rolled out around Australia literally as we speak,’’ Ms Gillard said.

    ‘‘(With these agreements) we will be able to see the close down of the old copper network and its replacement with fibre-to-the-home and that will deliver super-fast broadband to Australian families and businesses.’’

  9. Pip, exactly. Australia especially in the ye olde days were very mindful of our isolation – hence we were always in the forefront of communication.

    A good friend of mine who lives only 30km out of Geraldton has only had broadband for the past 3yrs. Prior to this she would freak if someone emailed her a photo as it would take all morning to download…one photo that is.

  10. The NBN is going to change many, many business models and is both a threat and an opportunity to anyone smart enough to see its potential.

    If that is the case, why not prove it with a CBA?

    I suspect the NBN will be troubled in cost and delivery.

  11. Tom of Melbourne; a really pathetic way to criticise any government policy is to attack the detail. Dear oh dear you forgot to mention all those poor people who will have their front yard flower beds dug up, OH THE HUMANITY.
    I suspect that a future Liberal government will sell off the NBN for a huge profit which they can use to pay for maternity leave for women earning $150,000 pa
    Barnaby Joyce knows about Liberal party promises to look after the country folk.

  12. That’s an interesting line of logic, so laden with informed analysis and facts…

    The cost of the NBN is almost 5% of a year’s GDP. When was the last time that a project was commissioned on this scale, without broad political support?

    And don’t bother to suggest that the opposition has politicised this, just recall that it was Rudd that promised to build it for less than $5bn, then committed to the 8 fold cost increase to rebrand the ALP as the “tech savvy’ party of the future.

    There are plenty of legitimate doubts about cost and delivery.

    But I’m sure you have great confidence in it, only because it represents part of the political divide.

  13. Re “When was the last time that a project was commissioned on this scale, without broad political support?”….the Sydney Harbor Bridge. Who could ever visualise a time when both shores of Sydney would need to be connected by other than a punt.

  14. I wonder if Turnbull did a cost benefit analysis when he gave a good mate 10 million dollars to try out rain making – it must have worked because the drought broke and we had floods.

  15. How on earth does that demonstrate that NBN is worth the money? Is there a point you’re making there somewhere?

    That’s just an attempt at partisan pint scoring. It proves nothing about the cost of NBN.

    The NBN will struggle with budget, and it may well become a dead weight for the government.
    ——–
    I’d have thought the harbour Bridge was supported by the major parties, did it cost 4 or 5% of GDP?

  16. Maybe people, on both sides of the political debate could see the benefits of nation building. How much did the Snowy Mountain Scheme cost, did it run over budget?

  17. Min, I don’t know that the cost of any of those projects were almost 5% of a year’s GDP.

    But there are some relevant points about NBN –
    • Ours is far more expensive than any other country, by a multiple factor.
    • It will cost around $2000 per head of the population, and this won’t even get it installed in each house.
    • It is overkill. Fine join up every hospital, school and library in the country, and it would be about ¼ of the cost.
    • It was created as a political differentiator, and it remains so.
    • I doubt whether it will be built on budget or on time, but that’s just an opinion.

  18. ToM, everything in Australia costs more. There are a number of factors including distance/transportation costs, low population density.

    Hospital, schools, libraries..everywhere? What about Upper Woop Woop North? What about regional universities? What about rural industry? Or should country people continue to be disadvantaged just because they slog on in rural industries in rural communities.

  19. Min, every. hospital, school and library.

    The main difference in cost is that the Liberals will run fibre along a spine, but not to every house.

    Over time there would be plans (financial) to connect it directly to the houses, but the spine would provide a significant improvement.

    Include schools etc, and it looks like a reasonable proposal, at a cost which is comparable to the spend of all other countries.

  20. The main difference in cost is that the Liberals will run fibre along a spine, but not to every house.

    Don’t forget the magical wireless bullet that will solve all problems indefiance of the laws of physics YomM.

    Plus the decaying copper network from the node to premises will still be quietly degrading underground while the “financial plans” to replace it are being pushed around and around, vainly hoping for private enterprise to deem it as a profitable exercise.

    Give it up YomM…you’ve lost this one.

  21. http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/23/telstra-optus-mean-the-coalition-must-adjust-to-life-with-fibre/

    Turnbull has failed to shine as communications shadow, but mostly for reasons outside his control. He inherited a dud broadband policy from Tony Smith, one that no one outside the Coalition is impressed with, and Tony Abbott — presumably deliberately — set his potential rival a high hurdle in instructing him to demolish the NBN. It’s a win-win for Abbott — if Turnbull indeed succeeded, the opposition would have achieved an impressive victory; if not, Turnbull would be undermined.

  22. MS – so why is this worth a 4 or 5 fold cost increase?

    Some have the view that it isn’t worth this, others assert that it is. But without the CBA, it is a series of politicised assertions.

  23. I pay $23.95 per month for underground optic to my home (10GB peak, 100GB off peak).
    I predict that internet access will always be cheaper under Federal Labor government.
    How much do you pay Tom?

  24. MS – so why is this worth a 4 or 5 fold cost increase?

    A cost increase over what TomM?

    Don’t forget the $50 bil (and incorrect) amount you’re continually spouting is more like $36 bil, spread over 8 years. Making roughly $8 bil per year…not such a massive cost now is it?

  25. Gawd, that’s cheap luna. I pay $59.95 per month for broadband and it seizes up every afternoon between 4pm and 6pm and weekends.

  26. You seemed confused between the amount you pay personally, and the total amount of the entire NBN project.

    The cost of NBN is about $2000 per head, that’s normally regarded a quite a lot of money.

    The government carries far more debt on my behalf, than I carry on my behalf. That’s stupid.

  27. How much did the “Seasprites” cost per head. I wonder who in the Howard government did the CBA? But as they never, ever flew I suppose that can not be considered a real example.

  28. Sue, don’t mention those wretched Seasprites! Where are you Mobius Ecko!!! (Mobius is ex Navy). Son never did get to finish his training as an aviation technician due to the Seasprite debacle.

  29. OMG an idiot on the Drum has just said

    “I am sure those “Older” Australians who are not interested in gaming will say I would prefer to pay $10 per month for ADSL than have to pay $50 per month for fibre.”

    But that is the expert on the ABC Drum, spreading misinformation rather trying to inform himself of what are the real costs out in the market, as stated by lunalava.

    Why is it that these so called expert panelists have one example only “gaming”, give us a break.

  30. Sue, by “gaming” were they referring to online gambling? So, they were trying to equate the NBN with ‘faster’ gambling….

    And online gambling is an issue in itself and one which is going to have to be addressed – once they bring in the poker machine legislation then a lot of gambling addicts will indeed turn to online gambling.

    But to equate the NBN with online gambling is…what do you say..ignorant, stupid.

  31. This terrible, I am paying $2000 (Toms figures) for a service I already have, that’s outrageous all those bludgers in Sydney’s Eastern suburbs and Toorak, makes me think about voting Liberal.

  32. Is it $2000 every year, or is that a one-off cost?
    Also, of COURSE the government spends more (no I am not going to refer to it as ‘has more debt’ – debt=investment) than I do on me – they paid for my education, health, roads, administering police, public utilities…blah blah blah…what is it with this obsessive penny-counting? Government is how we have a functioning society. It’s not there to make a profit. We put money in, we get a functioning society out.
    I live in a large regional centre an hour from Sydney and it can take 45 minutes for a 2-minute youtube clip to download. Sick of people telling me that wireless is so grand!

  33. From the New Matilda article:
    ‘A strong, humane, carbon-neutral, well-educated country is on its way, we just have to let Labor do its thing.’

    Do you see the problem – carbon neutral’ slotted in like that?

    Mindless bias and blatant propaganda.

  34. So we have an approximate of what the NBN will cost, but what about the benefits. One that I can think of is online learning which will especially benefit those in rural and remote areas. A possibility is that rather than people having to move to the cities to study at a tertiary level that they will be able to do this online via Youtube University.

  35. Min
    The gaming being referred to is on-line computer games where half a dozen individuals all simultaneously take part in a game (usually a shoot ’em up of some sort).
    If your upload speed (the rate at which information leaves your computer and reaches the centralised game) is slower than your opponents’ then you are at a disadvantage. Walking through a pool of treacle is how my nephew describes it.
    Gamers will be very excited by fast speeds and reliable connections.

    I could look up the figures from Access Economics and others who have done some costings on the benefits of the NBN but I’m lazy. From memory around $4 billion per year in health expenditure savings through eHealth; around $1 to $2 billion per year in teleworking and there were more guesstimates totalling all-up about $8 billion per year once the system is fully functional.
    That’s on top of the social benefits of diminishing the tyranny of distance, self-education and across-the-board affordability.

    Here’s something to put it in to perspective from the International Telecommunications Union (not a workers’ body) which describes itself as :

    “… the leading United Nations agency for information and communication technology issues, and the global focal point for governments and the private sector in developing networks and services. For 145 years, ITU has coordinated the shared global use of the radio spectrum, promoted international cooperation in assigning satellite orbits, worked to improve telecommunication infrastructure in the developing world, established the worldwide standards that foster seamless interconnection of a vast range of communications systems .. ”
    http://www.itu.int/en/about/Pages/default.aspx

    They wax lyrical about high speed broadband claiming, among other things, that :
    “In the health sector, network-based health monitoring of chronic medical conditions and low-cost remote consultation and intervention will be increasingly favoured by health providers, particularly those serving remote communities or ageing populations. In Australia, it has been estimated that cost savings in healthcare alone could pay for Australia’s National Broadband Network twice over.”
    http://www.itu.int/en/broadband/pages/sectors.aspx

  36. Min last year my daughter did an MBA post graduate course at an interstate uni, some course materials were posted to her, but basically it was done via the internet..The National library had great access to material as did other institutions.
    After work she would go to her home and do the study. We didn’t see much of her during the year but she was able to do a full course load plus work full time, mainly due to the fact of not having to travel.
    For her original degree she had to move to the big city, she much preferred the opportunity to study via the internet.

  37. NormanK, thank you for the explanation..you can tell that all of my crew have flown the coop 😉 And Sue..Youngest is into the last few months of her PhD and when she comes home Old Bessie my computer drives her silly because at UQ they have superfast broadband. Her work concerns research into biofuels and they must continuously liase with both Germany and China.

  38. (James Gee and David Shaffer chatting about the irrelevance of games and différent kinds of relationships in knowledge and industrial economies…

    Elsewhere, Catalyst interposes questions about (r)evolution(s) in interfaces for human doings in (un)natural ontological spaces…

    http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3251868.htm )

  39. The cost of NBN is about $2000 per head, that’s normally regarded a quite a lot of money.

    And what was the cost in today’s money of laying the original copper TomM? After all that is the comparison that matters considering the NBN will be replacing it…

  40. Min,

    TomM doesn’t want an argument on all the facts…he only cherry picks what he thinks suit his thesis and runs with them hell for leather.
    He’s on a hiding to nothing with the NBN though…just about everyone thinks its a good idea. Try telling someone in a regional centre that them getting broadband is a bad idea and they’ll look at you like you’re an idiot.

  41. ‘The cost of NBN is about $2000 per head’

    And, if those numbers are correct, that is over the lifetime of the NBN.

    And, as has been pointed out, the returns, even in the short term, will be returned far greater than this initial outlay.

    And the main point from yeterdays announcement, Gillard has fixed one of the previous governments (howards) complete stuff ups in their dealings with telstra

    And someone in the oo this morning is saying that they are creating a monopoly lol

    Well, yes, but they are creating it in the governments name, which I far prefer over to the existing monopoly which is a private one, particularly given that it is vital communication infrastructure (which I still say should stay in governments hands)

    I was also surprised to see so much time devoted to this last night on the 7.30 NULL, I was sure they sould focus on Rudd. Wrong again, luckily.

  42. Thank you Massive..but I keep plugging away any old how 😉 Yes indeed, an idiot..re regional centres that is.

  43. As a web developer and founder of the (now set adrift with other admins) ‘Australians for the NBN’ Facebook Group, I’m happy to chime in here.

    I’ll start this comment with the preface that what we currently have in Australia being described as ‘broadband’ is frankly laughable.

    None of the Coalitions arguments against the NBN stack up and most show a huge lack of understanding of technology in general. Our local member during the last election gleefully spruiked that Intel’s ‘Light Peak’ technology would render ‘this great white elephant obsolete’ referring to the NBN. This technology has now hit the market in a lot of new Mac’s under the ‘Thunderbolt’ name in its rightful place as a replacement for USB/Firewire. Needless to say, Laming looks now as he did then, a complete muppet…

    In relation to fibre’s future applications and potential – once the cables are laid, many future upgrades will be possible at each node. Engineers in Germany recently achieved 26 Tbps; thats right 26 TERABITS per second. Obsolete indeed…

    Wireless is great but I have yet to see any serious study from someone who actually knows what they’re talking about that says anything other than that we need a combination of fast wired broadband working hand-in-hand with wireless and everyone seems to conveniently ignore the fact that if everyone DID move to wireless, well, guess what – the whole system will promptly collapse. Wireless is just not made for nor capable of handling the massive bandwidth that fibre provides nor the amount of traffic currently travelling over the copper network. This argument is almost like suggesting we don’t need roads or railways because we have planes…

    Suggesting the NBN is a monopoly is as good an analogy as suggesting that the UK railway system is a monopoly. The reality is, the tracks are owned by one company and many operators run trains on them. The NBN will be no different; and frankly, given the importance of telecoms networks in terms of national security, does it make any sense NOT to have the Government involved in ownership and development at the core level?

    Discussing cost per head over the lifetime of the NBN is a pointless argument – failing to take into account the benefits to the economy and the future digital economy the NBN will open up for Australia. Do we amortise the cost per head of each kilometre of road, water pipe or electrical cable? No, of course not. So why with the NBN?

    And then of course, there’s the cost of maintaining Telstra’s crumbling copper network into the future – $400 million PER YEAR and climbing. The NBN is looking real cheap now.

    A famous argument is that this kind of development should be left to private enterprise. Because that’s worked so well up to now… nuff said on that one…

    I’ve ran a business relying 100% on the web for 7 years now and have faced major frustrations on a continual basis. Despite living less than 20 minutes drive from Brisbane CBD, I’ve had two homes where ADSL1 was the only option and my current home is too far from the exchange for ADSL1/2 to work effectively at all. I’ve now ended up on Telstra’s cable which is average though due to their backhaul issues, very intermittent and unreliable.

    What I just dont understand with the Coalition is that I think we can all agree it was made pretty clear to all concerned during and with the result of the last election that canning the NBN was a serious non-starter with the electorate. So, why are they STILL going after it? Is there some strategy or endgame I’m missing or are they really as deaf and out of touch as they seem?

    This deal marks a fairly major turning point for the NBN and leaves the Coalition in a fairly lacklustre position (if indeed they needed any further lustre removing on this subject…). They now have the choice to get a grip and get on board with the NBN or sit at the side bitching and moaning – or worse – cancel it and cost taxpayers MORE money and set us back for the next century…

  44. ‘So, why are they STILL going after it?’

    It simply fits with their campaign of opposition Damo.

    To agree with it, even remortely, lends the government some credibility. They are doing everything possible not to do that.

    A diligent media would note that. Instead, we have a compliant media supporting their game, caught in the thrall of the ‘sideshow’.

  45. Simple Maths. If 5% of GDP = Cost of NBN = $ 40billion (according to Tom R)
    Then Australia’s GDP = 20 x $40billion = $800billion
    In your dreams

  46. “The main difference in cost is that the Liberals will run fibre along a spine”

    The liberals wouldn’t know what a spine is.

  47. TomM, anything worth having is often expensive to install.

    What you are ignoring is the ongoing maintenance of both systems.

    The copper system has reached the end of it’s life and is increasingly expensive to maintain. ‘

    Why hobble a new modern system onto one that has reached the end of it’s productive life.

    Sometimes it is more sensible and economic to rebuild than refurbish.

    If that copper wire connection goes past a 1000 metres, you have lost the benefit of fibre.

    Mr. Turnbull was told that the cheapest is not always the best.

    It is as much about uploads as down loads. It is also about the speed going both ways.

    When I first went on the net back in the early 90’s. I thought the it was wonderful. Then I went to 56. When I first hooked up to 260 then 520, I believed that I would never need it faster. I am now beginning to find ADSL2 a little slow.

    The same arguments were used before each improvement was introduced, that is what we have is good enough.

  48. ‘(according to Tom R)’

    AAUUGGHH!!!

    please Lucy, don’t cross the tomms 😦

    (I think it was that other yomm who had the figureless figures)

  49. Just to put it into perspective – the NBN will cost 1/4 of what Australia spends on welfare annually and is about the same as we spend on defence.

    Access Economics suggest a fibre to the node (FTTN) national broadband network (NBN) would provide between $8 billion and $23 billion to GDP over 10 years. Not a bad return…

  50. CU re “anything worth having is often expensive to install”. But surely the ‘cost’ needs to be balanced against benefits. Normal basic common sense.

  51. Min, it would not be worth having if the cost was greater than the benefits.

    The same is true if we go for the cheapest option.

    If the system does not meet the needs of the country, it is money wasted.

    In this case, the long term cost of maintenance of the the cheap option makes it too expensive in the long run.

    Somewhere along the way, copper will be ditched. It makes sense to do it at this time,

    Look at the cost not separating the two arms of Telstra. If this was done many years ago, we might not be faced with the expensive options we have now.

  52. CU, the NBN is a goer. Turnbull is now effectively out of a job which will make life interesting for Abbott I suspect by October….

    Within an NBN rollout region, Telstra has agreed that its copper network will be disconnected within 18 months of the completion of the fibre network. Bye bye to copper….

  53. I support the NBN roll out, best option in the long run.

    The Telstra boss seemed too happy, which is a worry when gubment money is involved.

    Still, it’s worthwhile infrastructure.

  54. ‘Sorry Tom R’

    No probs Lucy. It is the burden one bears when some tool steals a name similar to your own 😦

    Although it is nothing compared to the confusion created for the original Tom of Melbourne 😉

  55. A change in direction for an NBN story on News24. Basically the story was that the copper network is not only aging but for a lot of older buildings passed its useful life.
    So for body corporates the question is pay themselves for new wiring or wait for NBN and that could be 9 years.

    So it seems, that now the Gillard Government has achieved the agreement with Telstra the real story about the condition of the copper network will emerge. No thanks to the MSM.

  56. Now on the NBN rollout, I would like to see a peoples vote (or even a cloud) for which electorates have to wait the longest.
    I nominate for the longest wait Warringah – tony abbott’s electorate
    And 2nd longest wait for Wentworth – malcolm turnbull’s electorate, because he put party loyalty before the nation.

  57. Sue, sounds reasonable to me. Here’s an idea, let’s start with a country region where there is a regional university. Oh but wait a mo’..that’s what Gillard is already doing with the NBN rollout in New England. The wealthy b*stards can wait their turn 😉

  58. Precisely CU. What happened to iprimus? Oversold, then everyone’s connections pegged out every few hours. **or maybe there was a different reason for this..any technicians on board…

  59. No Min, you’re spot on – we saw this with iPrimus and shifted to Internode. Unfortunately with their new ‘customer acquisition’ strategy and bandwidth hogging services like T-Box, the same is now happening with Telstra – I got this right from the cable guy a few weeks ago…

  60. Min, I have Iprimus for years with no problems.

    What problems I have had, were traced back to Telstra. Telstra even managed to switch my land line and broadband to another company. About ten phone calls later, I found out what happened. Still have not found out why. I think the wrong phone number was given to a Telstra technician.

    No acknowledgement or apology that seen me without services for days.

    I am bias, I want Telstra’s hand out of my pocket.

    I fear the ISP’s are blamed for Telstra’s mistakes and errors.

    Lets hope from now on it will be a level playing field.

  61. ‘…which electorates have to wait the longest?’

    The cities should wait until the bush is hard wired.

  62. So there ya’ go..we have an agreement. So let’s play music 😀

    It must be as we used to say in the ye olde blog days..beer’o’clock.

  63. Was just having a trivia comp with a couple of friends. I won 🙂 And the reason. Which movies did Peter O’Toole sing in. Easy bubs..Lawrence of Arabia and Man of La Mancha.

  64. The money quote (from Damo) on my (preferred) read…

    “Discussing cost per head over the lifetime of the NBN is a pointless argument – failing to take into account the benefits to the economy and the future digital economy the NBN will open up for Australia.”

    A close second (also from Damo)…

    “None of the Coalitions arguments against the NBN stack up and most show a huge lack of understanding of technology in general.”

    And brooding on them for a bit, maybe it’s a cautionary tale about flogging an already-lame and incrementally-deader quarter-horse, as an exercise in taxidermical cost-cutting and formaldehyde-perfusion on behalf of extant finishing-line and market failures, or even as against the present and future viabilities of user-providers whilesoever (retail) opportunities are delimited by wholes(c)ale misconceptions about what the NBN is, and is designed, as a holism, to do.

    Or, the (in)effective-(in)effectiveness of a not-NBN predicated on providers and clients @school, @hospital, @library, @business still somehow being required to map to, and to locate themselves at, physical-school, physical-hospital, physical-library, physical-business in a partial roll-out or tack-on scenario is well considered…for a still-centralised, one-way system; but I’m not sure that’s how tele-distributed, poly-directional functions and services on an NBN platform necessarily will work, or even how the present, and presently constrained, networked world works. Maybe it’s the difference between analogue and digital analogues; most of the ICT revolution, and its plethora of co-locations, seems to remain unaccounted for in a physical-analogue preconception about necessary and unnecessary nodes (even among and between their ‘prioritisations’), somewhat at the expense of the pluripotential of virtual networks and dynamic, interactive interconnections perhaps envisaged for, and through, the NBN as ubiquitous-generic platform for them, in the long(er)-run.

    Or something like that; and a game of musical chairs until (everyone agrees that) access to the NBN means an NBN, and vice versa.

  65. When it’s factual information I do. This compares with opinion pieces dressed up pretending to be facts. In this case the factual information is a co-signed letter and a specific statement made on ABC Radio.

    On Thursday night the four, Mr Downer, Tom Harley, David Russell and Danielle Blain, co-signed a letter to Mr Stockdale criticising his administration of the party on a number of fronts and saying they were backing Mr Reith.

    ”Our decision to support Peter is solely motivated by the obligation we have to the party. We are sorry you declined the opportunity of a less public and more gradual transition,” the letter reads.

    Given that three of the vice-presidents are set to be re-elected today – along with the Queensland powerbroker and former minister Santo Santoro – the letter means Mr Stockdale, if re-elected, would not have the support of his deputies.

    In a rare move, Senator Minchin, who is doing the numbers for Mr Stockdale, made his outrage public.

    ”All four of them have acted with treachery and disloyalty to the incumbent federal president in a way that brings disrespect upon the Liberal Party and the office of federal president,” he told ABC Radio.

  66. ‘Senator Minchin was again forced to repudiate a whispering campaign that he was backing Mr Stockdale as part of a deal that would enable him to succeed him.’

    I played only a very small part in that whispering campaign.

    GO STOCKDALE!

  67. What is in it for Mr. Abbott supporting Reith. You would think they would want new blood and be moving on to the future, not the past.

    People loose with the truth in charge of both arms of the party.

  68. Mr. Abbott and most of the shadow back bench once again backed a loser. How are they going to work with Mr. Stockdale, when they no longer support him.

    We are wrong, the magic pudding is not a myth. Mr. Abbott has located it.

    He must have because he is going to give tax cuts out of savings. This is after he also pays for his Direct Action policy as well from those magic savings.

    Mr. Abbott if successful, will be known as the miracle worker when he comes to the economy.

    I hope somewhere along the line, he tells us what is to be cut, to create these miraculous savings.

    The man is also not going along with new taxes on excessive profits of the mining giants. He is a wonder, his miracles are going to be up there with the loaves and fishes.

  69. CU the MSM will support Yabbott with the loaves and fishes tax cuts. All he will need to say is tax cuts are always better with a coalition govt.

    The Labor standard areas of education, health and infrastructure spending were cut hard to enable the tax cuts. But who will remember that.

  70. PM previews GP telehealth conference June 29, 2011 – 8:49AM

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/pm-previews-gp-telehealth-conference-20110629-1gpig.html

    Seeing a medical specialist via videolink will be Medicare-funded for the first time starting Friday.

    It’s part of the federal government’s big $620 million telehealth push which aims to bring rural patients and doctors together regardless of distance.

    This is a far cry from party-lines rigged on fencing wire !

  71. Libs blue as Brown paints NBN Green

    http://m.zdnet.com.au/libs-blue-as-brown-paints-nbn-green-339317735.htm

    What’s worse for Abbott, the media — fatigued by Liberal negativity — will be all over the Greens to see just what they’re going to do; Abbott will become little more than an observer in Canberra’s looming three-way. It will be a strange new world, but however you feel about the new political reality coming into play tomorrow, there’s no discounting its likely effect on the NBN. Abbott’s Liberals will move from a barely-minority party to one that can no longer pretend it’s anything but in opposition — and I’d suggest that this might be a good time for the party to revisit and clarify its policies on transport, the NBN and so on.

  72. NBN to launch rural Broadband service

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/nbn-to-launch-rural-broadband-service-20110701-1gtd6.html

    Rural and remote Australians will soon have access to broadband services similar to their city cousins with the launch of the National Broadband Network’s (NBN) Interim Satellite Service.

    NBN Co is offering the service to residents, small businesses and indigenous communities in rural and remote Australia without current access to broadband comparable to that available in cities.

    The company’s aim was to deliver high-speed broadband access for Australians in rural areas as well as in cities and towns, NBN Co chief executive Mike Quigley said.

    “The Interim Satellite Service will ensure broadband will reach those who need it the most so that they too can become active participants in the digital economy,” he said on Friday.

    “The retail service providers running the trial, Interim Satellite Service, with some of their existing customers have reported some very positive responses.

    By the time the next election comes around it’s going to be difficult to roll back, with so many companies contracted, and many happy subscribers involved.

  73. Tassie NBN 2nd release sites build begins

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/tassie-nbn-2nd-release-sites-build-begins-339317723.htm

    Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has welcomed the commencement of construction at the second release sites in Tasmania for the National Broadband Network (NBN) today, with construction commencing last month as scheduled, according to NBN Co.

    NBN roll-out sites in Tasmania.
    (Screenshot by Josh Taylor/ZDNet Australia)
    In April, it was announced that Triabunna, Sorell, Deloraine, St Helens, Kingston Beach, George Town and South Hobart would be the next sites in Tasmania to receive the NBN, with the roll-out to cover approximately 11,150 premises.

  74. Pip @ 2.08am..I thoroughly enjoyed reading that one… 🙂

    What’s worse for Abbott, the media — fatigued by Liberal negativity — will be all over the Greens to see just what they’re going to do; Abbott will become little more than an observer in Canberra’s looming three-way.

  75. Mr. Abbott has been able to do nothing with the Senate the way it has been for the last twelve months.

    Mr. Abbott has been all shouting, no action.

    Mr. Abbott is fast becoming the “gunna” man.

    What amazes me is the belief that the Greens are going to blow it. I thinks that Mr. Brown is a better politician than most give him credit for. At least he does not ignore reality of the last elections.

    Mr. Abbott cannot accept that he lost. He and his party are still waiting for Labor to fall over, so they can take their rightful place as government.

    With the the numbers that each side has, Mr. Abbott should have more runs on board than running around the country, talking the economy down and causing gloom and doom.

    Mr. Abbott should have had some wins in parliament, but that takes work and application. It is not as exciting as preening yourself before the cameras each day.

    The problem for Mr. Abbott is that his message is becoming boring.

    Mr. Abbott needs to understand that wishful thinking is not a prudent way to act as Opposition leader. Wishful thinking does not produce results.

  76. CU, as far as I know Abbott has proposed no amendments so how can he have any wins? The only win that comes to mind is the Youth Allowance but then on that one Abbott had the support of Windsor, Oakeshott and the Greens.

  77. Min, listenig to a repeat of Bolt. He is mouthing off that the western suburbs of Sydney being changed by Labor immigration.

    I was under the impression that immigration has halved under Labor.

    At least :abor is doing something about Telstra’s stronghold on communications. Mr. Howard had 18 goes and no successes.

  78. CU, by gee you’re a game girl 😉 listening to Bolt not just once, but a repeat.

    For the last 5 decades the poorer suburbs have been ‘changed’ by immigration because that’s where immigrants can afford to live. Immigrants are mostly to urban areas and so tend not to gravitate to regional areas…but that’s another story…

    Telstra or any other important monopoly should always remain in public hands – it’s a bit like selling off the postal service..but didn’t Howard consider doing this at one time…

  79. Min, sadly I cannot have an opinion if I do not look at all sites. It does raised the blood pressure though.

    I wonder how the next Coalition government will cope, as there is little left to sell off.

  80. Min, could we look at the achievements and failures of both Mr. Costello and Mr. Keating.

    There are many truths that should be addressed.

    In my opinion, Mr. Keating had many successes both as Treasurer and PM.
    It was one of Labor’s greatest mistakes when Mr. Howard first gained power, to disown much of what Keating achieved.

  81. Min, the first time I attempted to watch and believe me that is a wishful task with my young grand daughters present. Now I am home, I am going over what I missed. A little out of date.

  82. CU, typically John Howard gave nobody no recognition for nuffin’….least of all Costello 😉

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