What can the Coalition promise?

During today’s question time in the House of Representatives Tony Abbott, drawing upon all his newfound warmth and compassion for brave refugees who undertook the perilous journey to our fine country, undertook his own journey into new waters:

My question is to the Prime Minister. I can guarantee that no asylum seeker sent to Nauru will be subject to caning, can the Prime Minister make the same guarantee about asylum seekers sent to Malaysia?

I don’t think compassion is a sea that Mr Abbott can sail with relative calm, although the ‘hear hears’ from the Backbench would suggest that he is considered amongst the party of changing tides to be the absolute pillar of moral virtue.  And please note they are now asylum seekers, not illegal boat people.  Such empathy.  Such sympathy.

This surely couldn’t be the same man who just over a year ago started his angry threats to turn the boats back to sea if his party won government. Could he promise that no asylum seeker would perish if he did turn the boats back?  No.

Mr Abbott acknowledged that turning boats around could provoke asylum-seekers into taking dangerous measures, such as scuttling their vessels.

“But the fact that it was prepared to do it, I think let people in these countries know that trying to come to Australia illegally was a pretty risky business,” he said.

And now he wants an assurance that asylum seekers won’t be caned although it would be quite acceptable if they drowned.  That’s the risk these people take.  Drowning is one of the consequences.  And possibly the consequences of this policy making butterfly.

The only compassion Mr Abbott has ever shown for asylum seekers was during his question to the Prime Minister today.  Today he was the reincarnate of Mother Teresa.  Yet I find it difficult to believe that a man who has up until now shown that he cares not one ounce for the dangerous and pathetically desperate situations these people faced in their own country, for the risks they may have undertaken just escaping from their war torn borders, for the perilous journeys en route to Australia, not being bothered if they perish at sea . . . cannot bear to think that they’ll be caned because of an apparent heartless Gillard Government.  The Boston Strangler himself could never have been that evil.

Like the Government’s Malaysia plan or not and for the flaws it may contain, they are at least trying to promise a new life for these asylum seekers.

Other than sheer hypocrisy, what can the Coalition promise?

229 comments on “What can the Coalition promise?

  1. Miglo, I am sure that the Coalition have had drama lessons, watching their performances in the last couple of days. The problem is that I get the impression we are watching a political drama on the stage, not reality.

    Hear what he said to Mr. Turnbull in passing when ask how it was in Melbourne. “The manufacturers love us”

    If what Mr. Abbott says is true, they deserve to be going broke, if they believe in what Mr. Abbott is saying.

  2. So with the MSM (including Aunty) supporting the Coalition, the next election is as good as run and won.

    Imagine Labor reduced to a rump and the Greens little more than a fond memory.

  3. Well written Pip.

    “The manufacturers love us.” Yet under Howard manufacturing was decimated in this country and if the opposition had their way during the GFC manufacturing would have all but collapsed under their economic plan.

    They won’t get caned on Nauru, but they did get both mentally and physically abused there, which is why Howard chose Nauru and put very strict conditions on media and NGOs being able to see the refugees there.

    What a hypocritical joke Abbott is, and no matter how much the MSM supports him unless he can come up with something positive, concrete and credible for the next election then the majority of voters won’t vote for him, that is if he lasts that long as party leader.

  4. el gordo. IF Abbott and his misfits win the next elections, you had better be up there with the well to do(money wise) otherwise you are going to be like the majority of the population you will be living in 3rd world conditions.

  5. Miglo, I think you forget that Abbott is a simple fellow who likes to equate good and bad.

    So for Abbott the analogy,

    drown= water=swim=good
    cane=school=seminary=bad

  6. Some Greens don’t even balk at a $500 per tonne tax. The Green’s junior partner, the ALP, has confirmed that the carbon tax will keep increasing.

    Well el gordo an article that starts with that nonsense in it’s opening paragraph certainly doesn’t instil you with any confidence as to the rest of the content, and Marohasy doesn’t disappoint by improving on it.

    It’s full of doing nothing now, allow the polluters to continue unabated because a silver bullet is just around the corner and man’s ingenuity will save the day.

    Well how about we start something now, that should of been started two decades ago at least, and if a silver bullet does come along it will mean there is less to remediate thus saving money and resources whilst allowing the silver bullet to operate more effectively and cheaper.

  7. There are things that should be remembered about Nauru. Firstly it’s location which is somewhat east of New Guinea. This means the same situation as currently exists, that people smugglers will be taking their ‘cargo’ to Australian waters where they will be picked up by the patrol boats. The people will then have to be transported thousands of kms to Nauru. How then will Nauru act as a deterent to the people smugglers? It will be business as usual as it was during the Howard years.

    The detention centre on Nauru no longer exists – it was turned into a high school. Therefore presumably Australia will have to reclaim the centre from the locals or build a new one.

    Nauru is not a signatory to the UN Convention on Refugees although the President of Nauru did suggest that he might sign this is if Australia wanted to reopen the centre.

    Senator Bartlett was the only Australian politician to visit the detention centre in Nauru and described the conditions there as ‘appalling’.

    The cost to Australia of running this detention centre was estimated in 2007 as being $2 million per month.

  8. Abbott has one more thing to promise beside hypocricy and that is that he promises that the Liberals will always be funded by cigarette companies and he’ll say whatever it takes to defend those companies.

    First this piece from a year ago:

    FEDERAL Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has conceded he will support the Rudd Government’s changes to cigarette taxes and packaging.
    Cigarette prices increased overnight by about $2 a packet and will be sold in plain packets from July 2012.

    Mr Abbott said he would not oppose the Government’s changes.

    “I’m not going to defend smoking and I’m not going to oppose the measure because it might have some useful health spinoffs,” he told the Nine Network on Friday.

    “I’m not going to oppose it. (The Government’s) tax measure will go through,” he said.

    And two days ago he comes up with this:

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says Labor taxes on alcopops and cigarettes are overwhelmingly slugging less well-off families.

    In a broadranging attack on the government for failing to address cost of living pressures on ordinary Australians, Mr Abbott said Labor had turned the working families of 2007 into the forgotten families of 2011.

    Rather than doing something about cost of living pressures, Labor had made a succession of tax grabs, reaching its long hand into the pockets of every single Australian to rip out their hard-earned incomes, he said.

    The latter comment, you may have noted, seemingly coincides with the news that the tobacco companies oppose the plain packaging and news that they themselves fund the Liberals.

    I think we’re going to soon witness Abbott slowly unhinge. It’s getting too hot in the ring.

  9. It is exactly this hypocrisy from Abbott that should be exposed in the media Migs, and done the way you have. Put side by side direct quotes of his blatant contradictions as evidence of his constant lying.

    They love to scream loud and long over one supposed Gillard lie but continuously overlook Abbott’s constant string of them.

    If he is so willing to lie on so many things, even on the banal and inconsequential, and also lie so readily to his colleagues and fellow party members (Gash and others can attest to this) then imagine what he would lengths of obfuscation and dissimulation he will go to if in government.

  10. So far Abbott’s policy seems to be a combination of No Problems because I’ll turn the boats back. However if there are problems then I’ll send ’em to Nauru.

    I have yet to discover how Abbott intends to send the boats back…when questioned about this (yes surprising I know that anyone bothered to ask him the magic question HOW)…Abbott suggested that he would have something akin to the Bat Phone linked to all the patrol boats, giving direct orders to navy personnel.

    As most here know son is on the Patrol Boats and believe me this suggestion caused a fair bit of amusement.

  11. One can but hope that this article is correct…and I have a feeling that it is.

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Abbott-isnt-boxing-clever/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    In 2013 Tony Abbott will look tired and negative in the face of a Government that has made the right decisions for Australia’s long term national interest.

    He will be mired in the morass of his short term opposition attempting to repeal reforms which will have found grudging community acceptance. He will enter the next election profoundly unprepared to be Prime Minister.

    So watch out for the right hand in the eighth round Tony. Gillard Bumaye!

  12. ‘A carbon price will be deeply embedded into our economy and will begin our transformation to a lower carbon society.’

    Wishful thinking, by 2013 Tony Abbott will be PM.

  13. Stop trolling el gordo, it doesn’t do you any favours and puts you in a poorer light.

    (el gordo’s reply will be a troll)

  14. That is not having a different opinion el gordo. The more than once referral to what you could not possible know will happen, Abbott winning the next election, and just proffered it as a single throw away line as provocation is not a different opinion but trolling.

    This is exactly the behaviour you see from the brigade of right wing zombie trolls across blogs and forums. No logical discussions or even a modicum of wanting a debate, just lots of one or two throwaway lines, nearly all very similar and all either bagging Gillard/Labor, “they are gone”, “they will lose” etc. or defending/praising Abbott, “he will win”, “Abbott is great” etc.

    After July 1st or unless Abbott completely changes tact and starts offering lucid and credible alternative policies, and ideas instead of negative politics, then as can be seen by the spate of media articles, even from the right wing media, and the considerable amount of comments from professed Liberal supporters against Abbott, then there is a higher likelihood he won’t be leading the Liberal party at the next election let alone winning it.

  15. hi everyone, just a small observation gleaned from extensive lurking , imho el gordo isn’t actually a troll. but is best regarded as a virus infecting blogs, Tim at Deltoid found the infection was readily treatable, by isolating it to its own thread, which reduced its baleful and malefic presenceto inconsequence and saved milions of zeroes and “ones” fom an otherwise pointles existence 😎
    thanx all for previous well wishes, rehab is proceeding, and i’ll keep lurking – starting to walk again, still only one good hand, but improving daily.

  16. I don’t particularly like Abbott, but because of the carbon dioxide tax we are stuck with him.

    Don’t need a crystal ball to see our political future, so I’m beyond the next Federal election and now seek common ground between the old Greens and the agrarian socialists.

    Miglo and CU visit GT to express their opinion and the locals don’t call them trolls. You should get out more ME.

  17. “The Fourth Estate, whom I have great respect for, love the spectacle and the content and so far have been along for the ride. The combination of Abbott’s frenzied assault, heavy weather in the polls and more than one difficult national issue to be dealt with has encouraged fevered speculation and a sense that the normal rules of politics may not apply to the current opposition.

    It seems as everybody has suspended their disbelief in the face of Abbott’s aggression.”

    Mmmm…

    Rude People Can Be Perceived as Powerful
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=rude-people-can-be-perceived-as-pow-11-05-22

    Breaking the Rules to Rise to Power: How Norm Violators Gain Power in the Eyes of Others
    http://spp.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/01/20/1948550611398416.full.pdf+html

  18. Sorry el gordo you lost it when you said I should get out more. You haven’t a clue how much I get out and what I do but seem to have this insight that most wingnuts profess to of being able to see what people do through computer screens and see into the political future many years ahead.

    Of course if you are proved wrong if Abbott does lose the next election, that is if he’s still leader which is looking more unlikely, then you will be missing in action or waffle on about how Australian voters were brainwashed or are stupid.

    Again sorry, but throwaway one or two liners that do not add anything to the debate and are only proffered to elicit an attack or to divert attention away from a thread that is not going the way a poster likes is trolling.

    If you are basing your premise on Abbott winning purely on the carbon tax debate then you really aren’t following things very closely, and if the carbon tax is such a negative for the government why is the opposition continually dropping back to asylum seekers instead of the carbon tax.

    A considerable majority were for the carbon tax until the big industries with their toady opposition in tow began a misinformation campaign, and engaged in outright distortions and lies on the matter. Even after all that and a constant Big New Tax by Abbott and his constant jetting around the country at taxpayers expense to bleat that every factory he visits will close down and Australia will collapse they could not gain a huge support. Most of the support is with dyed on Liberal supporters.

    This is before Abbott, who constantly changes his stance on climate change and is only just now being called out for it, is fully exposed and scrutinised as he will be before any election. It was scrutiny of him that cost him an election he should of won and where he had one of the smallest swings to a Coalition in modern times.

    As soon as the Coalition’s scheme comes under any scrutiny and the massive impost that it will have on taxpayers, let alone businesses Abbott is harping on about, then things will rapidly change for the worse for him and the Coalition, and they probably know this already, which is why there are so many rumblings against Abbott at the moment.

    To engage Coalition meltdown, press send

    Already the Coalition have admitted their scheme will cost 30% more than the first figure they harped on so much about and that 30% increase is a considerable underestimate according to those who are expert in the mitigation technologies Abbott is proposing.

    All this before the details of the government’s scheme have been released.

    To post a throwaway one liner on Abbott winning, and that wasn’t the first time you had done that, without detailing why you projected it so it could be debated is trolling.

    Over to you.

  19. I defer to you pteosaur, you are right and for the reason you state.

    el gordo isn’t a troll though on a few occasions he engages in a posting style that can be construed as trolling.

    Counter opinions are good and stimulating, throwaway lines with no context or logic relying solely on a premise the author can see into the distant future does not have merit.

    Good to see you posting pteosaur.

  20. I too would like to extend my welcome to pteosaur and I hope your health returns and you’re soon back to your bulldog self.

  21. Speaking of bulldogs, well British bulldogs, Damo has asked that I say hi to everyone. He’s recently moved house and work is also tying him down, but he’ll try and drop in on the Café later in the year.

  22. . “They won’t get caned on Nauru, but they did get both mentally and physically abused there, which is why Howard chose Nauru and put very strict conditions on media and NGOs being able to see the refugees there.”

    They might not caned in Nauru, but there is nearly 100% chance they will get to Australia.

    Mr. Abbott was not too worried about the people who remained in Indonesia, at Australia’s expense and a little chance of being a part of Australia’s promise intake. We have not taken the number we promised to do over the last few years.

    There have been numerous reports of the sorry conditions these people live under.

    I am not happy about the Malaysian solution but have proposed in the past, similar arrangements with Indonesia.

    The new arrangements will stop the boats. The refugees will not be allowed into Australia for many years. In return there will be thousands who will be allowed, that have little hope now.

    The only people who will be sent to Malaysia and other countries are those who get on the boats. Will there be many who will see this as an option, as it will not mean entry to Australia.

    What we must do is take as many refugees from this region, to ensure fairness.

    It is nice for some to see the African refugees as being more important but they are not in our region.

  23. Economists, political scientists and climatologists look into the future and don’t use crystal balls.

    Long time Labor supporters are deserting and the Party will fail at the next election, taking the Greens with them into obscurity.

    It’s all very well to sit here reinforcing your own values in this very small shed, but you really should make a habit of visiting contrarian blogs to get the bigger picture.

  24. How do you know I don’t do that el gordo? Again you are saying you know what other people are doing just through a computer screen. You are supposing that just because I don’t visit the blogs and forums you do that I’m not visiting or participating in others. That is very presumptuous of you.

    Long term Liberal supporters are deserting them as well. It is OK locked into your own ostrich view of things but you really should pull your head out of the sand and look at sources and views other than those that support yours.

  25. El gordo..here is a contrarian view and certainly something that you won’t read about in the newspapers.

    http://www.imb.uq.edu.au/index.html?page=134882

    The Queensland Government’s investment will enable the researchers to test the economic feasibility of scaled-up new-generation algal energy systems and will attract a further $2 million in industry and UQ support, facilitating a $3.5 million project. Partners include Kellogg Brown & Root Inc, Neste Oil Corp, Cement Australia Pty Ltd, North Queensland and Pacific Biodiesel Pty Ltd, the University of Karlsruhe, University of Bielefeld and UQ.

    **Disclaimer..this is daughter Erin’s research, these are her Mr and Mrs Algae. Daughter was invited to Beijing last year and with Germany, Australia is at the forefront of making this research a practical reality. Pity about the lack of recognition though.

  26. El gordo, many of those contrarian blog sites stop contrary views at the gate and if not, they are happy to see us subjected to the nastiest of attacks that the right can muster.

    And if you take a hard look you’ll find the regulars here are also active contributors on many other sites.

    We also rather like it here at the Cafe where generally ideas and opinions can be respectfully exchanged. I think you’ll also find we are tolerant and fair minded. Not just equally minded.

    You might be interested to learn that the commenters are in the minority. There are many regular visitors who are just happy to read without leaving a comment.

  27. Labor is surprisingly effective in parliament

    You read about this in the MSM either but apparently when you do read the MSM Labor were embarrassed and lost in parliament against he mighty Abbott onslaught, when in reality the opposite was the fact.

    When the truth comes out, as it nearly always does, and people keep leaving the MSM in considerable numbers as they currently are, and Labor now continues as it currently is it will be up to Abbott and the opposition to start elucidating, something they have failed at every single time they have tried. The Labor core will never vote for this mob in their current form, so I don’t think Labor has to worry about that, but swing voters are a different story. On current opposition form as they are slowly being revealed for the lack of talentless malcontents they are then I don’t see the swing voters going for the Coalition either.

  28. el gordo, I do not belong to any site. I visit many.

    If I agree, I say so. If I disagree, I also say so. I also make a it a habit to supply links to support what I am saying.

    I am under the impression that the sites main reason for existence is the exchange of ideas. Ideas, not abuse or insults. I did not know that the sites are for pushing our own barrows.

    What I would love to see, is that we mature enough to be able to discuss policies and ideas, regardless of the party that promotes them.

    I find it annoying that little can be said, without getting abuse and name calling.

    There are many things the government does that I do not agree with. Sometimes I believe there is a better way of doing it. This does not mean I believe the government is hopeless and should be toppled.

    There used to be many Opposition proposals that I thought made more sense. I must admit it is many years that I have found myself in this position. This did not mean I had to support the Opposition.

    If that make me a troll, so be it.

  29. El gordo, further the my recent comment, there are many of my work colleagues, golf club associates and Facebook friends who regularly read the posts and comments at the Café. It is not uncommon for them to tell me that they liked such and such a thread or such and such a comment.

    My Indigenous threads also attract an Indigenous audience. I’m often phoned or emailed by my Indigenous friends who express their opinions to me personally, rather than via the Café.

  30. The difficulty is always to get people off their derrier’s to actually say something 😉 …yes I’m looking at you!

    Both daughters have promised a post..youngest is currently excused as her work for the moment remains intellectual property.

  31. “It’s all very well to sit here reinforcing your own values in this very small shed, but you really should make a habit of visiting contrarian blogs to get the bigger picture.”

    el gordo, I am confused, earlier you accused us visiting other sites, now you say we should visit them.

  32. Oh thank you Bernard Keane I had forgotten about this.

    “Turnbull is quite right to be annoyed at his treatment, since he let Tony Abbott’s wine-fuelled absence from a key vote on the Rudd government’s second stimulus package two years ago go through to the keeper at the time.”

    That was over a very important issue that Abbott had made a great deal about for the weeks leading up to the notion in parliament but then he doesn’t show up for the crucial vote.

    And that wasn’t the only time. There is the picture of him in black short and bedraggled t-shirt at the very back next to an entrance door raising his hand to vote on another very crucial matter he had been going on about for weeks, a vote he only just made it to. That had not been the first time he had to rush out of the gym to make votes he had forgotten about.

    And here are the Abbott supporters in blogs and opinion pieces having a go at Turnbull and calling for him to go because he missed a couple of very minor points.

    Can you imagine just how bad things would be with Abbott as PM, and I think most voters can as well, which is why he always languishes in the preferred PM stakes. Will voters go for the Coalition at the next election with Abbott in charge, I don’t think they will when the reality of what their vote will do as the election looms and they have to make the decision.

  33. And I continue . . .

    Half of the commenters here have been together for a number of years, sharing our heritage with Tim Dunlop’s Blogocracy, reb and joni’s Blogocrats and reb’s Gutter Trash.

    The other half are made up of people who simply wandered into the Café or through word of mouth.

    We do actually get around. We’ve been around for quite a while.

  34. “If that make me a troll, so be it.”

    That is the very opposite of trolling Cu, which is why you are such a good contributor. There are several others here in the same mould.

  35. True enough Migs. My estimation is 4 years although a number of us were around before then. From memory I think that you came in during Tim’s Blogocracy but a number of us were around before then on Matty Price’s blog.

  36. It looks like another thing the Coalition can promise is internal brawling. Now it’s Minchin versus Abbott.

    TONY ABBOTT has clashed with his senior colleague Nick Minchin over the Coalition’s decision to oppose an excise increase on alternative fuels, saying he will always put pragmatic politics ahead of ”policy purity”.

    The pair locked horns in an exchange during which Senator Minchin suggested the Coalition was guilty of not supporting good policy and of being financially irresponsible for opposing a $518 million measure without suggesting alternative savings.

    News of the fallout emerged yesterday as tensions between Mr Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull erupted over a leaked internal email that admonished Mr Turnbull and four colleagues for missing a vote in Parliament.

  37. Funny thing memory. I remember Migs posting to Tim Dunlop’s blog when Tim wrote that he was going to call it quits and it was thoughts from the heart that Migs wrote. The year 2007.

    Reb (now of course of Gutter Trash) said along the lines of Cut it out..he (Tim) hasn’t died. Before then I hadn’t thought much of this bloke called Miglo and his WCP persona but then I thought that he might be Ok.

  38. ”but then I thought that he might be Ok.

    Let’s hope your judgment has improved since then Min.

  39. “Our self service is exceptional”

    As I discovered last night.. 🙄

    Although at least you’re licensed and open 24 hrs. *thumbs up!*

    But can you attract “celebrity guest stars” like Karl Stefanovic ??

    I think not!

  40. Although I have heard that the Cafe’s “GIG GUIDE” has featured such legendary greats as Roger Whitaker and Demis Roussoss… 🙂

  41. Too right I’m in a poopy. Because I’m in a rush, and only because I’m in a rush, this quick stop in at Coles is turning into a nightmare. These little old ladies smile aimlessly at the cashier and do nothing until the cost is announced. Then they spend ten minutes looking for their Flybuy card. Then they search every pocket in their purse to try and have the correct money. The old duck in front of me has spent ten minutes looking for a five cent piece. FFS give her a five cent piece somebody. My milk will curdle before I get out of the place. 😉

  42. Maybe Abbott thought he could stand over Turnbull and not get a reaction and maybe he was wrong.

    “Abbott misses same votes as Turnbull

    Mr Abbott missed three of the five votes for which Mr Turnbull was criticised.

    Mr Abbott’s office said the three votes – also missed by other coalition MPs including deputy leader Julie Bishop – were motions that the chief opposition whip Warren Entsch had told all MPs did not require attendance.”

    http://news.theage.com.au

    Should be a happy time for the Coalition next week.

  43. I was just about to add that I look three months pregnant. The next person who asks me when the baby is due . . . 😦

  44. Speak for yourselves…

    I’m frequently confronted by young teenage girls at airports saying things like; “say, aren’t you that actor, whatshisname Brad Pitt…?”

    I just sigh, and reply “I’m sorry girls, I’m afraid not, I’m just his younger second cousin…”

    It’s a curse, I know…

  45. Minchin has more than likely sounded the death knoll for Abbott.

    On ABC News they stated Minchin has stated he is not happy with the strategy of negativity and wants a deeper policy response.

    Abbott and detailed policy are an anathema. To ask him to drop his negativity to intelligently elucidate any policy of his own is like asking a toddler to intelligently elucidate a critique of Shakespeare.

    But I have to admit that Abbott’s negativity had reached stupid lows lately when he opposed policies and programs the Coalition had approved only a short time ago and even ones they had instigated in bi-partisanship.

    With Minchin now openly disgruntled at Abbott, Tony’s days are surely numbered.

  46. You mistaken for Brad Pitt reb, surely not? You are way too good looking to ever be mistaken for Pitt or for a lowly relative of his. 😉

  47. Why thank you Adrian, that’s very kind. Just don’t tell Brad.

    We’ll let that be our little secret.

    It’s almost like me and Brad have this Malcolm and Abbott thing going on…

    We both know we’re fabulous, but we’re uncertain as to whose fabulousness is the most popular!

  48. Reb, the new logo is in response to your outrageous complaint about our poor service.

    Btw, in real life I’ve been mistaken for Imran Khan. Not lately though. These days I look like Russ Heinz. 😦

  49. Can the opposition promise I’ll get my youthful good looks back? They promise just about everything else.

  50. “Economists, political scientists and climatologists look into the future and don’t use crystal balls.”

    .
    They predict and some times they are correct, sometimes they are wrong.

    Mr. Abbott is going around the country making assumptions on numbers that do not exist and scaring the people that their future is bleak.

    Mr. Abbott knows that what he is predicting is not fact and will not happen.

  51. “Some Liberal MPs, including Kelly O’Dwyer and Scott Ryan, had argued the Coalition should support a Labor bill that will phase in over five years an excise increase on LPG, LNG, and compressed natural gas.

    The increase would complete a Howard government policy which was set in train in 2004 when Senator Minchin was the finance minister.

    After the junior MPs were rebuffed, Senator Minchin rose to back them.

    He said the excise increase was a Howard government policy and a good policy. In what sources said was a pointed observation about Mr Abbott’s style, Senator Minchin said that when the Coalition was last in opposition in the 1980s, ”we supported good reforms”.

    This was a reference to the Coalition’s support back then for such Hawke/Keating measures as floating the dollar and banking deregulation.

    The fuel excise measure is worth $518 million to the budget and Senator Minchin said it was incumbent on the opposition to at least suggest alternative savings to account for the hole in the budget.

    ”When we took these decisions to cut revenue in government, we had to find ways to replace the revenue,” he was quoted as saying.

    Sources said Mr Abbott had argued that circumstances had changed. The focus on the cost of living was a political winner for the Coalition and all the debate about climate change meant it made sense to not increase tax on cleaner fuels.

    Mr Abbott prevailed. He told Senator Minchin that faced with a choice between ”policy purity and pragmatic political pragmatism, I’ll take pragmatism every time”.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/liberals-split-by-brawling-20110526-1f6hr.html#ixzz1NXr1ocLK

    What is pragmatism?

    Does he mean opportunism?

    Mr. Abbott is like a spoilt child who demand to have what he sees at once.

    He, like a young child fails to see or cares about the long term consequences of his action.

    Thankfully he will only be around until the polls change.

  52. Reb, if your hairdresser thinks that you look like George Clooney..it explains the haircut…

  53. el gordo, I call it stupidity as many cooler heads in the Coalition appear to be doing.

    Ab empty target, that stands for nothing, is a better definition.

  54. This sounds more like reality.

    Carbon tax could send Abbott up in smoke

    IF or when a soft carbon tax becomes law, all on the Labor side and some on the Liberal side believe, with fingers crossed, that Tony Abbott will lose his raison d’etre as Opposition Leader.
    Abbott appears to realise, finally, that the morning-after reality of a carbon tax will not match his grotesque rhetoric. Yet he is confident his scare campaign will have currency at the next election, whenever it is held, because he believes Labor has no antidote to his populism.
    He gave a clue to his long game in a media appearance on Wednesday.
    “Well, I think it’s clear that the Prime Minister is going to try to start the carbon tax as low as she can,” he said.
    “But no one should believe that that’s where it’s going to stay. Once this tax is in, if it comes in, it will go up and up and up.”
    Abbott sounds like US evangelist Harold Camping shuffling the dates for the end of the world from May 21 to October 21……….

    …..Labor lost its way but Abbott’s scare campaign against the ETS would not have had as much traction if the cost of electricity hadn’t broken ranks with the general inflation rate.
    The rub for Abbott is the energy price cycle seems to have peaked in the middle of last year. On present trends, the annual increase in electricity charges will be below 10 per cent by the end of this year.
    If China takes it upon itself to slow the world economy next year, a carbon tax might arrive when the cost of living is no longer the domestic hot button issue. Abbott may then find he is bloviating like Kim Beazley in 2001, when he promised to roll back the GST after people had moved on to the other issues………….

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/carbon-tax-could-send-abbott-up-in-smoke/story-e6frgd0x-1226064360471
    ………………………………………

  55. CU have a read of this article

    Rann’s vision shows the way in economic renewal

    Rann said he wanted South Australia to create so much energy from renewable sources that it could help other states meet their renewable energy targets.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/ranns-vision-shows-the-way-in-economic-renewal-20110527-

    Only a couple of weeks ago Abbott was in SA saying you’ll all be ruined, Whyalla will close and now you have Rann in Sydney saying SA will not only lead the way but be a savior.

  56. Oh by the way CU I saw Abbott on the tellie saying Whyalla will close, yet for Rann I read about him in the business section.
    Thanks MSM

  57. “Drunk on the Job”

    Biggest meltdown in our history the GFC, 42 billion stimulus package up for vote and Abbott, passed out drunk at work.

    This is the man who wants to lead Australia.

    “Then there is Abbott’s hypocrisy in authorising the Entsch email, remembering that when Turnbull was leader and the vote for or against the government’s $42 billion stimulus package happened, Abbott slept through no fewer than five divisions.

    For the record, sleeping through five ringings of the bell in Parliament House (he was on the couch in his office) is hard to do. They aren’t exactly soft in tone. But Abbott had been at dinner earlier that night consuming copious amounts of alcohol (he said he lost count of the number of bottles of wine drunk when asked about the session by a journalist at the time) with Peter Costello, Peter Dutton and Kevin Andrews. They made it to the vote but Abbott didn’t.”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/abbott-should-show-a-little-respect

  58. Even though it is very unlikely that Malcolm Turnbull will ever lead the Liberal Party Tony Abbott is treating him as a threat to his leadership. It seems that Abbott feels very insecure about holding onto that position.

  59. I find it hard not to believe that Mr. Turnbull would like to see Mr. Abbott gone.

    There are many newer members in the Opposition that are showing some ability but are ruining their reputations by pushing the rubbish that Mr. Abbott is imposing on the country.

    I would like to add, even though I believe many of the younger and newer Liberal members have ability, I do not like or agree with some of their beliefs or policies.

    It is unlikey that Mr. Abbott would stay in place long if he won power. It is starting to appear that his party is capable of removing him before he does. Some in the party, might believe that he has fulfilled his role, in that the party is far enough ahead, for them to win with someone else.

    They need to remember, a week in polictics, two years is an eternity.

  60. Sue, the Adelaide Advertiser, [Adelaide Now] ran nasty interference on Mike Rann during the lead-up to the last SA election, and despite their best/worst efforts Labor won. For non Sth Australians try google, chantelois + philllips whose high profile disappeared after the election.
    However the beat goes on, and as well as that the attacks on former Treasurer Kevin Foley are relentless. Not just the two physical attacks on the streets of Adelaide but the Advertiser making hay. Kevin Foley recently told the media that he suffers depression, and that has been a useful dog-whistle in a recent Court event about one of the physical assualts on Mr. Foley.
    The latest editorial on Foley is a complete drubbing, but, at the beginning of the article is this:

    Mr Foley was a successful Treasurer for a long time. Under his guidance, and helped by enormous increases in GST and property tax revenue, the South Australian economy and services undeniably improved.

    I would have tought that if Mr. Foley had done a good kob, that would count, but apparently, after all the bad publicity promoted by the Advertiser to justify their position, it seems he has to go.

  61. Maggie, It seems that Abbott feels very insecure about holding onto that position
    That could come under the heading, grandiose paranoia.

    Cu, “a week in politics is a long time”. There does seem to be a shift in the tone about Abbott in the last few days; not a minute too soon.

  62. Sue @ 7.44am, I can’t imagine an article so glowing as this about Premier Rann in the Adelaide MSM.
    In your link to the SMH http://www.smh.com.au/business/ranns-vision-shows-the-way-in-economic-renewal-20110527-1f83g.html?skin=text-only

    there was this:-

    Those that can adapt to changing conditions are likelier to survive and grow. Those that cannot are likelier to fossilise.

    It was partly for that reason the South Australian Premier, Mike Rann, was in Sydney this week as part of an open-for-business pitch to investors on behalf of his state.

    Elected to office nearly a decade ago, Rann has seen the number of mines in South Australia quadruple from four to 16. He has unlocked the giant Woomera area (which is bigger than England) to mining, and he is now anticipating a “boom” in the mining industry – already his state’s largest exporter – with 30 new projects in the pipeline. He is consciously comparing his state to the Western Australia of 25 years ago.

    But he is also talking about plans to redevelop old manufacturing sites in Adelaide. He wants to turn a Clipsal factory and its surrounds into a “green urban village” to house 3500 people, with space for business and retail.

    He also wants the old Mitsubishi Motors site at Tonsley Park (which employed about 1700 workers when it was shut in 2008) to become a clean-tech hub and “magnet” for innovation and investment in renewable technologies.

    To pique investor interest, Rann has been talking up his state’s renewable energy credentials.

    By the end of 2009 South Australia had more than 90 per cent of a total $455 million invested in geothermal projects nationally; by the end of this year 20 per cent of the state’s power will come from renewable sources; the state generates 15 per cent of Australia’s residential grid-connected solar power; and it has more wind power than the rest of the country combined, with just over 50 per cent of total investment in wind power technology.

    That does not sound bad.

    No, it sounds good to me.

  63. Pip @2.46 I did follow the last SA election and I was disgusted by the chantelois mud raking which as you say disappeared, when the adelaide voters were more astute than the MSM.

    I have followed some of the Foley issues and some of the worst sledging appears to come from the local ABC radio.

    I wonder if the MSM or even 7.30 Adelaide will let Rann tell his own electorate the important story.

  64. Sue, ABC Local yokels Abraham and Bevan are aggressive and arrogant in their dealings with Labor, and their carry-on about Ms chantelois was a disgrace.
    Like Uhlmann a few nights ago interviewing Bob Brown, they interrupt so often instead of waiting for an answer, that I invariably end up back at Radio National.
    For me the most annoying thing is the cocky know-all attitude from these two and now it’s hard to pick the difference between the commercial gotcha guys and “our” ABC.
    Sadly it’s not just a couple of locals, but 95% of ABC opiners.

  65. Sue, I need to amend the RN comment as I can’t listen to Fran Kelly either….the later segments are a relief and escape to more interesting topics..:smile:

    Just to be “fair and balanced” to the ABC, the Conversations program on ABC Local at 11am central time is always good value.

  66. Typical bully boy behavior in my view, Maggie.

    And BTW Pip, I understand Rann is a Port Adelaide supporter. Fine man.

  67. OK how stupid is this latest opposition attack on the carbon tax?

    The Business Council of Australia has canned the opposition carbon policy and won’t endorse it.

    The Business Council has endorsed the government’s policy in design but wants to start the carbon price at $10 per ton and exempt all export industries.

    The opposition through Greg Hunt has come out stating the Business Council has slammed the government’s carbon tax and has not endorsed it. Hunt was shrill throughout the interview.

    Combet had a press conference in response calmly stated the fact that the Business council had endorsed the use of a carbon price and the implementation of a market mechanism as being set up by the government whilst they had not endorsed any part of the Coalition’s pay the polluter scheme.

    This is the mindless type of negativity that Minchin was talking about. There is no way anyone can construe what the Business Council is saying as slamming the government’s scheme and endorsing the opposition’s.

    By the way the ABC reported this as Combet disagreeing with the opposition’s assertion that the Business Council had not endorsed the government’s policy.

  68. Has the GST been a failure?

    Was Mr. Howard’s GST the answer to state funding that is fair.

    It does not meet the needs of the states.

    It has not resulted in many state taxes and fees being abolished.

    Tax avoidance in the general community has not decreased.

    It is only a growth tax when the economy is blooming. It disappears in bad times. State expenditure does not.
    ……………………………………………
    “Fiscal federalism pushed to breaking point

    THE political dust-up over Western Australia’s iron ore royalties grab obscures the deepening split over who gets the spoils of the nation’s biggest mining boom and how they are spent. …………….

    But Barnett this week said the GST was “increasingly irrelevant” for WA. Federal Labor surely would not “punish” the people of the state driving Australia’s resource boom prosperity.
    And, unless the state’s projected GST decline was halted, Perth’s relationship with Canberra would come “second” to its links with “Asia, China and Japan”……

    The big story of Barnett’s royalties defiance is that, like monetary policy, fiscal federalism is under pressure to allow Australia’s mining boom states to grow, if necessary by squeezing the rest of the nation……..
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/fiscal-federalism-pushed-to-breaking-point/story-e6frgd0x-1226064393212”

  69. Miglo @ 4.11pm, And BTW Pip, I understand Rann is a Port Adelaide supporter. Fine man.
    Even the finest of men have their human frailties. 😀

  70. More fine articles from a fine man…

    Friday, May 27, 2011
    The carbon tax, the mining tax, they’ll kill mining right?
    http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/05/carbon-tax-mining-tax-theyll-stop.html?showComment=1306467316749#c7531068555589521591

    Abbott said the carbon tax would close 16 mines.

    Neither the mining tax nor the prospect of a carbon tax has made a dent in mining expansion plans with the industry reporting plans that would double spending in the year ahead.

    Capital expenditure plans collated by the Bureau of Statistics show mining companies intend to lift spending from $35 billion in 2009-10 to $51 billion in 2010-11, an increase of 45 per cent.

    Plans for 2011-12 suggest a further boost of 63 per cent to a record $83 billion, a figure economists say is almost certainly an underestimate.

    Abbott’s warnings make about as much sense as a hat full of……
    Readers may select whatever noun they prefer..:roll:

  71. That’s a ripper of yarn el gordo whilst mine isn’t a yarn at all and was on ABC News for all to see.

  72. Pip @ 7.29pm…seeee what I’ve been saying since Migs was a duckling. They are Press Releases copy and pastes. And how do I know, it’s because when I was a small time pollie in Victoria I used to issue Press Releases.

  73. Pip, I think that I might have..but the Port game is on and so I think that we girls might have the Café to ourselves for a while..unless Port starts losing by LOTS. 😉

  74. Min, it’s half time and Richmond are leading Port by 9 points so I’d be keeping a look out if I were you….

  75. I don’t know whether this one has been mentioned today..but didn’t Adele Horin do Tony Abbott over! A month or so ago we at the Café were trying to do a psychological study of Tony Abbott and I believe from memory, one of the things mentioned was egocentrism. It seems that we are not the only ones… But Horin is more into an Adonis Complex.

    As health minister, he was dead against providing federal funds for mental health. Professor Ian Hickie, executive director of the Brain and Mind Institute, recalled lobbying Abbott six years ago. ”Abbott believed people should be able to control their thoughts and emotions; he believed they should exercise free will,” Hickie told me. ”He admitted his own views made it hard for him to understand mental health issues.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/abbott-does-the-drawback-on-opportunism-20110527-1f849.html#ixzz1NeEUc99U

  76. Min, @ 10.09pm, Ms Horin put this very nicely…

    But as his time as Opposition Leader has demonstrated, Abbott is not a big-picture man. His refusal to take climate change seriously and present a credible policy is evidence of a facile approach to big issues. The biggest issue confronting the world and our children and grandchildren deserves serious engagement. Abbott’s preference for a fear campaign and a nonsense policy has elevated political opportunism to new heights.

  77. Pip, from a number of recent articles it would seem that a goodly portion of journos are getting just a wee bit tired of Abbott. I wonder if the fact that Abbott did the dirty on Turnbull has anything to do with it…conspiracy theory #squillion.

  78. Min, there has been a noticeable shift in the MSM in the last few days, with a few obvious exceptions.

  79. Min, there’ll be no stopping “Himself”. Port Adelaide are 17 points in front at nearly 3/4 time….

  80. Pip at 4.08
    Agreed that our local ABC pair Matt & Dave are beyond it these days. I don’t listen to them anymore, I’ve had the experience of being cut off when my spiel didn’t concur with what they obviously wanted to hear. The whole election campaign in S.A. was a disgrace, to the point where I genuinely wonder whether it was a dry run for the Federal campaign. As you & Sue said, the morning after the election it was “Michelle who?”. I watched the ABC election coverage in its entirety, & I’m pretty sure Michelle didn’t rate a mention.

  81. Min, Peter Hartcher says Abbott did know about the email….
    Turnbull’s turbulent priest
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/turnbulls-turbulent-priest-20110527-1f8e8.html

    The big question was, who had aimed the barb? Was it just the work of an overenthusiastic whip, or did it have the imprimatur of the leader himself?

    On Wednesday Entsch said it was sent without Abbott’s knowledge. But by Thursday he admitted that Abbott had seen it around the time it was being sent.

    And yesterday, while he wouldn’t be drawn on whether he had authorised the email, Abbott defended it. It was ”not about any particular individual”.

    Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott downplay tensions – barely
    http://www.news.com.au/national/malcolm-turnbull-and-tony-abbott-downplay-tensions-barely/story-e6frfkvr-1226063408951

    Both men were forced to acknowledge each other by the presence of reporters. Mr Turnbull put out his hand first but there was a tiny, telling delay before Mr Abbott accepted it.

    Liberal tensions simmer over rebuke of Turnbull
    http://www.theage.com.au/national/liberal-tensions-simmer-over-rebuke-of-turnbull-20110527-1f8mx.html?from=age_sb

    The email affair has triggered accusations from the Turnbull camp that Mr Abbott was trying to get at Mr Turnbull – although Mr Entsch and the Abbott office are adamant that the leader and his staff had no part in inspiring or drafting the email.

    Yeh right!!

    The email has Abbott’s finger prints all over it. Two different stories without batting an eye.
    That’s Abbott.

  82. BSA Bob, Abraham and Bevan behave like any other shock-jocks, refusing or refuting everything that doesn’t fit their agenda. They played the Chantelois [erotomaniac in my humble opinion], saga just the way the Liberals wanted.

    What was worse was that they never questioned the veracity of her story at all. I’ve heard through another journalist that Abraham had a big falling-out with Mike Rann some years ago and the same for Michael Owen who writes for The Australian. Judging by their attitude to Mike Rann it could be true.
    The story goes that they weren’t shown enough respect…
    Abraham now writes for The Messenger, another ltd news rag of course.

    I’ve been trying to remember when they changed course, have you got any idea?

  83. I don’t know why the clapping, I barrack for the CROWS …
    maybe because it’s been a long time between drinks for Port. The last tie they won was against my team and Adelaide football hasn’t been discussed here for for some weeks 🙄

  84. Pip at 11.15
    I can’t say when Bevan & Abraham went over, I used to think they were OK around 2004-5 & maybe a bit later. My gut feeling is that they got on the Abbottmobile about the same time as everybody else, but I can’t back this up.
    What you say about Owen rings true, he obviously hates Rann’s guts. Somewhere in that little bunch of posts the targeting of Rann & especially Foley gets a mention- one gets the impression that it’s officially OK to clobber them.
    And Isobel Bloody Redmond always available for a snarky comment on this, secure in the knowlege she’ll not be asked about anything so obscure as her party’s plans & policies.

  85. I had to miss the first three quarters as I was at a dinner party. Some of the guests have had meetings with O’Farrell. They are of the opinion he’s absolutely terrible. Unbelievably terrible.

  86. Miglo, Sue suggested a couple of other names for O’Farrell a few days ago…O’Barrel, O’Fibrell …

  87. BSA Bob, Michael Owen has written so many articles about Mike Rann it makes me wonder whether he gets paid by the article. It’s usually a rehash of a rehash.
    Back to when the other two went over to the dark side, it’s been quite a few years since I and a few friends began to notice the change.
    One thing is certain, they clearly enjoy what they’re doing and there’s no hint of being under orders.
    The same can be said for most of the ABC sites now so it isn’t just coincidence. It’s just a shame.
    Howard’s mate Maurice Newman has been the ABC Chairman since 2006, so maybe that’s got something to do with the trashing of the ABC brand.

  88. BSA Bob, this editorial from a few days ago.

    THERE are words being uttered privately within the state Labor Party that no one will repeat publicly. It is time for Kevin Foley to leave Parliament.

    His departure is in the best interests of the Government, his party and, most importantly, himself.

    Mr Foley was a successful Treasurer for a long time. Under his guidance, and helped by enormous increases in GST and property tax revenue, the South Australian economy and services undeniably improved.

    Today that is forgotten – he is damaged goods politically. It is hard to see how as Defence Industries Minister he can present the credible face the state needs in national and international negotiations to bring billions of dollars in potential future submarine and shipbuilding contracts to the state.

    I’m guessing that the editors at The Advertiser are very pleased with their dirty work.
    Note the comments are all anti Foley.
    There was at least one comment voicing a different opinion….must have got lost in the shuffle…..

  89. What were we saying about Toxic Tony?
    How much time has he got left as Opposition Leader…..one week….two weeks?
    There’s something peculiar all over the fan 👿

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/split-in-liberal-ranks-widens-20110528-1f9w4.html

    LIBERAL Party unity is in tatters, with senior sources claiming leader Tony Abbott’s relationship with his shadow treasurer, Joe Hockey, and rival Malcolm Turnbull is ”poisonous in every way”.

    As the tweeps say…RAFLMAO

  90. Still rolling around the floor laughing….

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/liberal-senate-team-newsletter-20110528-1f93s.html

    Liberal Senate team newsletter Nick Minchin
    May 28, 2011 – 6:57AM

    As I prepare to retire from 32 years of full-time service to the Liberal Party, I can reflect on what is the secret to success for a maior political party like ours.

    There are of course many ingredients that determine success -active membership, adequate funding, talented parliamentary teams, unity of purpose.

  91. ‘They become pollwatchers or what I like to call “finger-to-the-wind” operators.”

    Ahh….that would be Abbott’s small target strategy.

    I agree with Minchin, Tony should just come out and say AGW is crap and pay the price.

  92. Why should Abbott come out an lie again el gordo, and pile yet another falsehood on his growing mountain of them?

    Also remember Minchin said that smoking causing cancer and other diseases was crap, something I don’t think he’s ever retracted from.

    And Minchin isn’t saying Abbott should do that at all, he’s saying that Abbott should stop being a constant negabore and start iterating lucid policies and ideas. Coming out and saying AGW is crap is only continuing to be a negabore, the opposite of what Minchin is wanting.

  93. ‘The Federal Coalition has a responsibility not to pursue populism at the expense of the nation’s long-term interests.’

    Well, AGW is crap, CO2 doesn’t cause global warming and we don’t need a tax to restrict this harmless trace gas.

    Is that populism?

  94. Strange twist on the matter.

    CO² does cause global warming, even the sceptical scientists agree with that. Palaeontological records show CO² has caused global warming in the past, so your harmless trace gas has proven to heat up the planet and not just this one.

    The debate is whether the man made contribution to the natural CO² is causing an increase in the global temperature trend outside of natural variability, and a rate of rise that would not occur if man had not pumped green house gases into the atmosphere. The science on that is as nigh on conclusive as it can get with a great majority of scientists and scientific institutions in the field in agreement, with sophisticated and ever improving computer models corroborating the science.

    Abbott agrees AGW is real and only disagrees on the method needed to mitigate it. That is pragmatism not populism. The populism comes from attacking the government’s policy whilst having a scam of a scheme of his own. That is disingenuous.

  95. Abbott is only saying its real as part of his small target strategy, the man has no backbone.

    ‘….with sophisticated and ever improving computer models corroborating the science.’

    Supporting the notion that CO2 is causing global warming?

  96. Supporting the notion that CO2 is causing global warming?

    Modelling climate and the effects of man made global warming on it, and corroborating the theory of AGW.

    el gordo you have been taken through this with a fine tooth comb in another blog. I really hope you are not going to go round in circles and waste our time here bringing up stuff that has been thoroughly discredited in detail.

  97. Judging by the article that Pip linked to at 2:50am this morning, there is one thing that the opposition can promise: Disunity.

  98. Mr. Abbott is learning to his dismay why his way of opposing does not work. Mr. Abbott has to up the ante to get attention.

    This is the same as a parent that believes to spare the rod , spoils the child. The bashing and scares have to increase to get any response.

    Mr. Abbott forgot that you can only say the sky is falling, a limited number of times, before people stop listening.

    Mr. Abbott with his screams and hand motions, of he will fight to the death to save the world is beyond belief.

    Mr. Abbott now has nowhere to go. He has reached the brick wall of incredibility.

  99. Pip at 12.38
    I glanced at that editorial, in common with the rest of Rupert’s rags the ‘Tiser is pretty solidly anti-ALP. I like their reference to Foley’s past achievements; they usually praise the ALP in hindsight (& rarely at that), at the time they would’ve been critical. I particularly dislike the local cartoonist, as reliable a dispenser of one sided smarmy vitriol as you’ll find. In addition to being a lousy artist.
    Returning to Matt & Dave, I don’t listen any more, but agree they seemed to be comfortable with what they’re doing.

  100. ME you missed the Bolt Report then? Professor Bob Carter was a guest.

    More human induced greenhouse gases have been placed in the atmosphere over the past five years to equal everything we have previously produced.

    Yet the rate of sea level rise has slowed and the oceans are cooling. We have to prove by observation whether CO2 is just a bit player.

  101. The Bolt Report and Bob Carter, now I know for absolute certain you are kidding.

    I never read Bolt and would not watch him in a pink fit. Like you he cherry picks data and either distorts facts or just plain makes them up.

    ABC’s AM misleads listeners
    Bob Ward thinks that Bob Carter has probably published the worst paper on climate change ever
    Cartergate
    The Australian’s War on Science 45
    Bob Carter’s attack on reason

    Yep if you are a mindless denier and want to pick crock to support your blind view then Bolt and Carter will do the trick but they don’t wash with anyone that has a modicum of nous.

  102. Mobius I don’t think they’ll be giving the number of viewers in much of a hurry. It’s my uneducated opinion that they have less viewers than they’d like.

  103. ME most of those links are Deltoid, so you hang out with those ruffians?

    ‘Like you cherry pick data and either distort facts or just plain make them up.’

    As a concession I will drop links (except neutral ones like BoM) and we can have a quiet discussion in a cafe.

  104. El gordo, I am lead to believe that you yourself have been a regular contributor at Deltoid. No use in being critical of Mobius for visiting there.

  105. ‘It’s my uneducated opinion’…

    You’re too modest…..the numbers will probably be out tomorrow and as none of you dare go over to the dark side I will risk being brainwashed to gather the data.

  106. Media Spy releases regular ratings Migs. In it’s early days I was a member and contributor being in multi-media at the time and having an interest in media.

    It was from MS I found out about the 36,000 number drop in Bolt’s numbers and it losing to Insiders twice in a row now.

  107. “…but Mobius goes there to soak up the ambience.”

    Wrong again el gordo. Yet again you prove you know absolutely nothing about me and you must like being wrong because so often you are.

    Anyway to refer to Bolt does no one any favours, even sceptics avoid him.

  108. El gordo, all of Bolt’s guests sing from the same songbook, which is something you are critical of us doing at the Cafe.

    So I take it it’s OK for right wingers to nod heads in agreement but not OK for the left.

  109. Carter is a well known sceptic and the MSM doesn’t give him the time of day.

    This will have to change because the Australian people are naturally sceptical and it’s a huge political issue, so the MSM will have to report the other side sometime.

    July 1 looms large.

  110. Menzies House really should learn to say what they think….

    Time for Tony Abbott end Treacherous Turnbull
    http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/2011/05/time-for-tony-abbott-to-end-treacherous-turnbull.html

    Time for Tony Abbott to end Treacherous Turnbull
    One senior Liberal thinks it has already become such a chronic difficulty that their leader needs to take drastic action:

    ”It’s inevitable that Turnbull and Abbott are going to have a confrontation. At some point, Malcolm’s behaviour will become so outrageous that Tony will have to sack him.”

    So, according to this Liberal, why wait? Abbott should take the slightest opportunity that offers itself, like last week’s Turnbull interview on ABC TV’s Lateline, where he was speaking outside his portfolio responsibilities. And he should do it now while the party’s poll numbers are strong, he argues. An angry Turnbull might attempt to challenge Abbott for the leadership, but would be defeated. Liberal head-counters claim Turnbull could expect fewer than 10 votes out of 92 in the Liberal party room.

    ”He would be humiliated and that would be the end of his political career,” says the Liberal.

    I happen to agree. Turnbull is an agitator so Abbott now has three choices.

    1) Drop Turnbull from Shadow Communications portfolio to the back bench.

    2) Reshuffle the Shadow Cabinet and Make Turnbull the Shadow Treasurer (in return for him toeing the party line on EVERYTHING).

    3) On Monday morning call a Leadership spill and settle the matter once and for all.

    Does anyone else suspect “the Liberal” is the founder of Menzies House?

    If the Coalition decided to “sack” Malcolm Turnbull, what are the odds of him standing as an Independent at the next election, given his determination to enter Parliament in the first place, and that was a no holds barred fight for victory.

  111. Before the trolls arrives, here is some information about the Say Yes campaign.

    http://www.SayYesAustralia.org.au

    Organisation CEO or equivalent Contact Number
    WWF-Australia Dermot O’Gorman Jaya Myler 0422 202881
    Greenpeace Dr Linda Selvey Dae Levine 0448 801044
    The Climate Institute John Connor Garrett Stringer 0405 306623
    Australian Council of Trade Unions Ged Kearney Rebecca Tucker 0408 031 269
    Australian Youth Climate Coalition Ellen Sandell 0400 544 754

    The Labor Party is not on the list, contrary to a bit of squawking from the usual suspects.

  112. Mr. Abbott cannot win on this one.

    Mr. Turnbull probably has no intention of running at this time. I would not mind betting that he also has no intention of helping Mr. Abbott.

    Mr. Turnbull would be in a good place as far as he is concerned on the back bench. He would be a free agent to act as he likes. The most that the party could do is to expel him. He still remains in the parliament.

    What could and should happen is for the final remnants of the Howard era to be dispersed, allowing new blood to take over. Mr. Abbott has prevented this from occurring.

  113. I wonder what Tony Abbott thinks of the Vatican agreeing with climate change and the need for humanity to act.

    The Coalition can offer.

    1) We are determined to disagree with anything and everything to do with this country while we remain in opposition.

    2) We are determined to be negative over anything and everything regarding policy.

    3) We are determined to ensure the mining coporations and bosses become so wealthy beyond their wildest dreams while scare mongering the rest of country into thinking the mining industry would become broke if they paid a fairer share of tax.

    4) We are determined to ensure that the taxpayer rewards big polluters by giving them taxpayers money to change their polluting ways.

    5) We are determined to not have a carbon tax because it will hurt families and the poor, but fully supported and introduced the most regressive tax ever a GST which continues to suck more and more form the working poor and the pensioner with every bill.

    6) We are determined to oppose a once off levy on the rich to help with the natural disasters our country has endured, but we introduced 6 levies while in government with some of those levied on the most basic of necessities including Milk.

    I could go on and on but actually have to do some work to pay the GST on my internet bill.

  114. Pingback: Gillard’s gamble, and the Glenn Gould Prize « No Place For Sheep

  115. Mr. Hunt has been concerned that PM Gillard intends to use taxpayers money to promote a price on carbon.

    It appears that 12 million dollars has been set aside for this intention. It is also true that the same amount was put aside in the previous budget but was not spent.

    I take it that Mr. Hunt is not concerned for the taxpayer’s money that has been spent for Mr. Abbott, the Opposition leader to travel across the country visiting two and three states in one day, day after day. Mr. Abbott’s main reason was advance his “no” case and to have snap shots to ow on the daily news.

    Now I could be wrong, it could be that the Liberal Party is paying for the air fares and other costs.

    I cannot understand the anger that has been shown at a couple of ads that support the “Yes” case.

    I fail to see why anyone should be prevented from putting forwarded their views. The people standing up this weekend seem to have only one thing in common, their support for a price on carbon. Not all agree the best is being put forwarded, but that it is a step in the right direction.

    It is being presented on the media, including the ABC as a Labor promotion. The two ads were not government action. They were put out by community groups and people who support “yes” not “no”

    The MSM and the ABC are saying in spite of meeting all the weekend, it was not constructive and no new information being given.

    It does not matter, that the government was very clear that there would be no new announcements this weekend.

    Mr. Uhlmann was at his best! Mr. Combet disagreed with everything that Mr. Uhlmann put forwarded. That did not stop the infantile interviewing.

  116. It looks like the silent majority is starting to rebel. Though it does not appear they are racing to Mr. Abbott’s side.

  117. I fail to see how Turnbull would struggle to get 10 votes. Have his party faithfull deserted him to that great extent?

  118. Just as an exercise in logic..how come Cate Blanchett – adverts = wrong. Mega miners Forrest & Gina – adverts = fine and dandy.

  119. And on the same topic…

    http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/05/news-limited-doesnt-like-ads-made-by.html

    News Limited papers yesterday attacked Ms Blanchett for self indulgently campaigning for a tax she would find it easy to pay.

    Coalition Senator Barnaby Joyce yesterday backed away from quoted remarks attacking Ms Blanchett saying he hadn’t seen the ad when he was asked for his opinion and now thought the only problem with it was that it was not labelled political advertising.

    Oh do tell..don’t tell me that Barnaby made a comment on something he knew nothing about..how unusual 🙄

  120. Min

    Of course it is wrong for Cate because she is on the wrong side of the argument. You may only support the argument publicly if you are a Denier.

    Only professors and high profile persons of the Denier side are respectable and speaking the truth when trying to influence our opinion with their public comments

    Those on the affirmative side who do so are nothing more than star seekers looking to influence our opinions with their disgraceful political opinions and attempting to use their high prolife standing in the communty.

    Too bad that they actually agree with the Carbon tax.

  121. Shane, one of the more peculiar arguments I’ve read is that because Cate is wealthy she will not be effected by the carbon tax.

    But surely if Big Business is going to be effected, and I dare say that Cate and the other mega wealthy invest in these companies..then how come Cate won’t be effected.

    Logic would turn it around and say soooo, IF Cate and other wealthy persons will not be effected by a Carbon Tax then it means that business won’t be effected…well that’s the logic from where I’m sitting.

  122. Miglo, the numbers maybe correct. The last election bought in many new faces, who are very ambitious.

    I believe many are impatient and will not wait long to claim what they believe is their right.

    Many of these are supporting Mr. Abbott but are not doing their reputation’s much good by mouthing his rubbish.

    Mr. Hockey has not the brains to see he is being used by Mr. Abbott, but the newcomers do.

    They will begin soon to distance themselves from Mr. Abbott, as I do not believe they will go down when the ship hits the rocks.

    It good to see that attacking Cate, has backfired. They picked on someone that the public seem to identify with. Someone the public seem to believe is genuine in her beliefs.

  123. CU, I spotted a comment from an anon but the inference was a Liberal backbencher which stated that one of the main concerns about Abbott (from their perspective anyway) is that he Abbott is very reluctant to renew and promote his up and comers – shades of his mentor JWHoward.

    I am thinking that Hockey still has some ethics left..and he has certainly been hit around the chops by Abbott, but Hockey doesn’t have much choice at present having such a high profile shadow portfolio. Turnbull is of course a different matter.

  124. Min

    It amazes me that the right are going for the juggular of someone who is rich.

    If any of us dared attack a rich person we would be called Communists and leftoids insistant on redistribution of the wealthys money.

    Seems the right will even turn on the rich who disagree with them, but use the rich as the old communist attack dog when it suits their agenda. Talk about two faced.

  125. Catching up, @ 3.39am, it’s good to know I wasn’t the last to retire last night. 🙂

    Re your comment about cleaning out the Howardites, the long standing Mr. Ruddock won’t be going quietly.
    He says that Family first are targeting his seat and suggests that there is branch-stacking.
    Isn’t there anyone else? Mr. Ruddock favours a Menzies House [Cory Bernardi] recruit.

    The Australian understands Mr Ruddock, a parliamentarian since 1974, hopes to hand over his electorate of Berowra to the factional unaligned and well-regarded head of the Liberals’ Menzies Research Centre think-tank, Julian Leeser, at the election after the next one.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/religious-bloc-targets-ruddocks-electorate/story-fn59niix-1226065199677

  126. Shane, honestly..isn’t it a wee bit difficult to attack Cate Blanchett..it’s a bit like kicking a kitten.

  127. Min

    There are so many that are using her as a punching bag and claiming her opinion is less valid because she is an actor.

    As though her opinion is not real.

  128. Yes Shane, I’ve spotted a number of comments along this line. But it doesn’t work well as Blanchett has always been an ethical worker..hardly of the Britney category.

  129. Catching up, @ 3.39am, it’s good to know I wasn’t the last to retire last night.

    Dear oh dear, Pip. Was the Crow’s loss hard to deal with? :mrgreen:

  130. Migs..Pip’s comment did not go unnoticed..that it’s only when Port win that footy is back on the topic of conversation 😉

  131. From: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/blanchett-exposed-for-the-crime-of-speaking-up-20110530-1fbdm.html

    Oh what it may have been in the Telegraph’s hands if it was prepared to apply some consistency:

    Australia’s richest woman says hard working mums and dads trying to keep their suburban small business afloat should pay more tax so she can pay less.

    Presumably Blanchett has nothing to gain from a carbon tax. Rinehart had a lot to gain in derailing the mining tax.

    Exactly and precisely. To be noted is the last paragraph..Blanchett has nothing to gain whereas Gina had a lot to gain.

  132. Just thought I’d pop in to provide asom ebalance for the views of the sense of involving Our Cate in spruiking the carbon tax message…

    More from that speech from Our Cate –

    “ We process experience and make experience available and understandable. We change people’s lives, at the risk of our own. We change countries, governments, history, gravity.”

    Yes, Cate says she and her friends change –
    • Countries
    • History
    • Gravity(!!)

    WOW!! Did she do that during The Hobbit or was this what she was up to while pretending to be Maid Marion?

    Is it rational to claim that she is involved in “cutting edge science”, meanwhile also changing stuff that us unartistic types think is pretty well a given – like gravity and history?

    Is having Our Cate involved in changing governments a good thing? If so which governments?

    Does anyone seriously think we should accept Our Cate’s opinion on anything that is actually important?

    Would Our Cate actually be better leaving her scripts to professional script writers?

  133. ToM

    My response to the same drivel at GT.

    ToM

    The arts has changed governments and politcians and countries through performances under iron fisted rulers. Performances where the average citizen understood the underlying message while the rulers were blissfully unaware.

    Your instant dismissal of a very strong part of culture and history exposes your minimalist experiences of the arts and the history of the arts under sufferance and retribution in many countries over thousands of years.

  134. Min

    Working mums and dads who earn less than the average wage will not pay the cost of the carbon tax so they need to stop this garbage.

  135. ‘Was the Crow’s loss hard to deal with?’

    Unfortunately, we poor barrackers are becoming immune to losses 😦

  136. I’ve pointed out that your comments are unfair and uninformed as far as they concern me personally.

    ToM, there is no such thing as an unfair comment directed at you. 😉

    They’re all fair in my humble opinion. :mrgreen:

  137. After spending some considerable time trying to work out what the hell ToM was talking about…it’s a speech that Blanchett gave in February 2010 and has zilch to do with the carbon tax.

  138. It also appears that he wants to take her literally, not poetically, which might explain his inability to comprehend ‘teh arts’

    It’s a lefty thing, and lefties aint supposed to be rich and successful. 😉

  139. Speaking of Slagging and bagging Blanchett

    The dumbed-down populism of the tabloid press is nothing new but it has about it now a vehemence and viciousness that can still surprise, especially in its casual, off-hand dismissal of an Australian citizen’s right to speak her mind.

    The truth is out there…

    Tune in to the ravings of some of those strange little men – always men – on talkback radio and listen to abuse dressed up as entertainment.

    It’s corrosive. It’s intellectually lazy. Usually it’s a cynical and desperate attempt to garner eye-balls on web pages and to prop up the constantly-declining sales of hard copy newspapers.

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2737030.html

  140. You know what..the very moment I pressed Post Comment I had the feeling that I might have invoked someone very special 😉

  141. “perspective anyway) is that he Abbott is very reluctant to renew and promote his up and comers – shades of his mentor JWHoward.

    I am thinking that Hockey still has some ethics left..and he has certainly been hit around the chops by Abbott>”

    Min, I do not believe they are going to sit quietly waiting for Mr. Abbott to notice them. When the senate changes, there will be extra new blood within the Opposition. Members like Mr. Michin will be departing.

    As for Mr. Hockey, he is too dense to see that Mr. Howard and Abbott use him to get Abbott elected. If it was a two man race, we would not have had Mr. Abbott imposed on us.

  142. As for Mr. Hockey, he is too dense to see that Mr. Howard and Abbott use him to get Abbott elected. If it was a two man race, we would not have had Mr. Abbott imposed on us.

    So true.

    He’s also one of those blokes who thinks we laugh with him, when in fact we are laughing at him.

  143. I was just thinking how chuffed the government must be…all the slagging and bagging of Cate Blanchett is worth a zillion adverts. As I said earlier, kicking our Cate is akin to kicking a small kitten that is, Cate is just not the sort of person to raise the ire of Mr and Ms Average.

  144. Of interest is that many in the MSM seem to be now putting their hands up to criticise the likes of the shock-jocks.

    It seemed for a while that all of the MSM were going to follow the Murdoch ‘formula’. I doubt that this is being done for ethical reasons but probably because the numbers crunchers have decided that there is more benefit in having a different ‘brand’.

    But whatever the reason, it’s good for democracy to have at least some semblance of balance in the media.

  145. At least he has the guts to say he is gutless

    http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/i-was-gutless-over-climate-ads-dick-smith-20110530-1fbwk.html

    “I didn’t appear on it because I knew that I would be a front page of lies in the Rupert Murdoch press here,” he said in Sydney today.

    I also note that the media is pushing the oppositions cries about the government allegedly funding advertisements for the carbon tax, nicely linking this ad in, although carefully saying well down the articles that these are privately funded. But the perception remains, and, as we all know, in politics, it’s the perception that matters.

  146. Tom..that’s very damning from Smith..let’s say it again only slowly..

    “I didn’t appear on it (because of) lies in the Rupert Murdoch press…”

    Therefore – due to “lies” (and the inference is that these are to be expected), a person cannot do what they want to do – cannot express an opinion that they would like to express because of the Murdoch press.

  147. With friends like this, who needs enemies?

    “Rose Torossian discusses why it’s time for a leadership change.

    Today, 30 May 2011, in an article by Phillip Coorey “Stop sniping, Hockey warns, as Coalition faces poll hit” words of wisdom were echoed profoundly by a man who is destined to become Australia’s Prime Minister: Joe Hockey. The only question that is left to be asked is “when?”

    Hockey recognises the need for real leadership and he does so by being humble. A characteristic which has not been seen since John Howard left politics. Hockey said in the article:”…

    ….I think I speak for all Australians (not heavily involved in politics but concerned about their everyday living and welfare) when I say it is time for Tony Abbott to go and for Malcolm Turnbull to retire from politics or put his political leadership ambitions aside because we’re never going to have him or want him as our Prime Minister.
    I cannot, for the life of me, endure one more moment of a very tired and boring Tony Abbott whose last breath has obviously left his political body. As for Malcolm Turnbull, his returned too soon. In fact, he should have never returned at all.

    What it comes down to is this: Joe Hockey it’s time for a leadership change…….”

    http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/2011/05/hockey-for-liberal-leadership.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MenziesHouse+%28Menzies+House%29

  148. CU, thank you that’s an excellent pick up by yourself.

    Choke, choke..that’s the right wing think tank Menzies House. The writing is indeed on the wall for Abbott once the conservative right wingers turn upon their own.

    And it’s very worth repeating…especially coming from Menzies House.

    I cannot, for the life of me, endure one more moment of a very tired and boring Tony Abbott whose last breath has obviously left his political body.

    Hands up anyone who wants to argue that Abbott isn’t tired and boring….

  149. And it just gets better…

    Former federal Liberal leader John Hewson says it’s time for his party to set aside its political interests and support a carbon price in the national interest.

    Dr Hewson has joined former prime minister Malcolm Fraser, actor Cate Blanchett and more than 140 community leaders in the “We Say Yes” campaign – a $1 million advertising and grass-roots campaign backing government plans for an emissions trading scheme.

    http://www.theage.com.au/environment/hewson-urges-libs-to-back-carbon-pricing-20110530-1fc12.html#ixzz1NoPm4K6M

    **of interest is that it’s…wait for it.. a $1 million advertising campaign..shades of Dr Evil..there must have been one heck of a lot of ‘grass-roots’ that went into the campaign to have been able to afford it.

  150. Miglo @ 10.54am, I a-m n-o-t t-a-l-k-i-n-g a-b-o-u-t-
    f-o-o-t-b-a-l-l 😦

    Thank you for your kind words 👿

  151. Bubezula has come straight and called the Labor Party “Stalinist”. We’ve all heard some in the Coalition address Labor MPs, in Howard’s time particularly, as “comrade’ which was their little “communist” dog-whistle.
    They really do still check under their beds in case their is a communist hiding there..
    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/libs-stoush-is-storm-in-teacup-abbott-20110530-1fbvx.html

    Mr Abbott told reporters in Canberra on Monday he would “leave last week’s storm in a teacup to last week”.

    Asked whether there were divisions in the party, Mr Abbott said: “The Liberal party is a broad church – always have been, always will be. We are not a Stalinist party as the Labor party is.”

    Just another example of what Miglo wrote about in the new post. Hateful name calling by Abbott to muster his supporters.

  152. They got some of my money. Looking at the response they got, it was money well spent.

    Why are they so scared of a couple of ads. Why do they think it is OK to destroy those who do not agree with them.

    Cate is a business woman as well as an actor. She has spent many years doing what she preaches, in caring for the environment. Cato, another actor, spent a lot of his life in the bush, selling windmills at one stage.

    Last night there were numerous people across all walks of life that signed onto a price on carbon.

    As it was said in Parliament today, Mr, Abbott is only Liberal live leader now or past that does not support this action.

    Mr. Abbott and his ilk seem to be the only one calling for an election.

    It sounded like Mr.Abbott’s last hurrah, lots of noise, nothing new.

    I am sure that the cost of the highest of $20 per week, I am sure will not destroy many household budgets.

    Fresh food costs are coming down as the country recovers from the floods.

    Most blame the cost of coal and the lack of investment for the rise in electricity. It has more to do with a lack of an carbon pricing mechanism. Petrol is in the same basket.

    The biggest cost of living that faces many people today is high rents, little to do with a price on carbon.

    Mr. Abbott has been successful, because he has been operating in a vacuum. Now the vacuum is being filled and the only tool that Mr. Abbott is an argument that people are sick of hearing. Clever strategy on behalf of the government. People are becoming interested in listening as the facts are released.

  153. Pip @4.17am. I have forthwith declared the Café a football-free zone…except if it’s Port or Collingwood. Mind you, Migs will most likely do a revision, apparently Port supporters aren’t all that keen on Collingwood. Goodness knows why, we Collingwood supporters are cute and fluffy 🙂

  154. CU..back to basics. If a person called Cate Blanchett wants to donate her time to a campaign about something she believes in, then this is her right, her decision. Full stop, end of story. Cate is exercising her democratic right to state an opinion.

  155. Where’s TB?? If you want to talk about football Min, it’s gotta be BRONCOS and QUEENSLANDER! 😆

  156. Bacchus..never fear. When speaking of t’other code I always back the Broncos. Dare I do otherwise 😀

  157. What an opportunistic sod Abbott is! Originally Abbott said that he would back plain packaging, then went iffy on the idea gaining himself several headlines along the way..now he’s going to back it. Couldn’t he have just said Yes in the first place and stuck with it, but of course not….

  158. Should an Australian Opposition Leader, interfere with the government’s negotiations with other countries.

    What extremes will this Opposition Leader goes to to sabotage government policies.

    Is it in Australia’s benefit for an Opposition to trash Australia aboard.

    Is this genuine scrutiny of the government or is it electioneering. Who should pay for the Opposition Leader to visit Nauru and Malaysia.

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