Surprise surprise. Howard lies.

In a world first a Murdoch paper has published a story that throws doubt over the intentions and integrity of the former PM, John Howard.  The Adelaide Advertiser reports today that former Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks says US documents have been released that prove the Howard government interfered in his terrorism case.

The article reveals that members of the Howard Government believed Hicks was not guilty but accepted there was pressure to have something ‘pinned’ on him.  Hicks folded to that pressure.

Hicks, who pleaded guilty to a terrorism-related charge in the US in 2007, says newly released US State Department documents show that members of the Howard government acknowledged he was not guilty of any crime and tried to think of ways to “pin him with something”.

He says the 50 to 60 pages of documents record “private conversations” between Howard government MPs and US State Department officials.

The documents were provided this week to American journalist Jason Leopold by State Department employees.

“They’re private conversations … between Australian politicians, the Liberal Party and the US State Department officials, people in the Pentagon and whoever was involved in that process in Guantanamo Bay, and it discusses my treatment and it discusses about the need to pressure me to say ‘guilty’,” Mr Hicks told ABC Radio.

Hicks was detained in Afghanistan in 2001, handed over to US authorities and detained for five years at Guantanamo Bay.

In March 2007, he pleaded guilty to providing material support for terrorism and was sent to Adelaide’s Yatala Prison to serve the remainder of a seven-year sentence, before being released in December of that year.

Today, Mr Hicks said he ‘folded’ to pressure to plead guilty and that the new US State Department documents showed Howard government officials acknowledged he had not committed a crime.

“There’s also acknowledgments from our Government, the Australian Government, I should be more specific and say the Howard government, acknowledgments from them and even from the US, that I’d never breached any law, I hadn’t committed a crime,” he said.

“And there’s conversations between Australian politicians and US politicians of how they can handle that: `What can we do, how can we pin him with something?’.”

Mr Hicks said that was when “they invented the charge ‘material support for terrorism’,” which, he said, was not a valid crime under any legal system.

Mr Hicks says he wants the Australian Government to investigate his case, but adds he does not want compensation.

“No, what I would really like is for the Government to acknowledge that what was done to me was wrong, that my conviction in an illegal military commission is null and void and the plea agreement goes along with that. That’s all I’m asking for,” he said.

Hicks said the content of the US State Department documents would be released by Leopold in about a month’s time.

Who would have thought that John Howard tell lies.  Just look at his honest face.

Prime Minister of Australia, the Honorable Joh...

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84 comments on “Surprise surprise. Howard lies.

  1. One thing that you can say about Hicks irrespective of some might think of him as a person is that he has always been consistent…the same as Habib. It will certainly make interesting reading when the US State Department releases the information.

  2. Crowey, I think that it will be just another in a long list that proves that JWH is a bloody disgrace. An Australian citizen incarcerating at Gitmo long after the British got their people out and then going along with a non-existent charge for the sole reason that Howard wanted to play Deputy Dawg..plenty of votes to be had in being seen to be ‘tough on terrorism’.

  3. Min, I have just finished reading David Hicks’ book, at the end Howard didn’t want Hick’s released from Yatla Jail until after the election, his Guilty plea was an Alford Plea, meaning you plead guilty to the charge but not the actual crime, it is way governments can save face without too many difficult questions being asked.

    Howard was pressured by the Whitehouse to make an example of Hicks, because the British Government fought to have their citizens repatriated back to the UK, and the Whitehouse thought that the British Government was going ‘soft’, which the US could not afford publicly.

    I found his book to be even and just personal, ‘therapy’.

  4. I am sure no one is surprised at this story. It is a sorry day when many including myself do not believe a word that came out of the Howard government.

  5. Another lie and promise not kept.

    “Interesting comment and a site that is worth visiting.

    “But the main point of Rob’s comments is that we should not be wasting time arguing over who made what promises (not forgetting that the Howard government went into the 2007 election promising an emissions trading scheme in 2012). The point is that we should be looking at the policy choices before us and seeing which is the best option (See The lie Gillard could have told, March 2).”

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Jullia-Gillard-Tony-Abbott-carbon-tax-pd20110302-EJR5T?OpenDocument&src=kgb”

  6. Augustus, I remember that now..at the time it was described as ‘the token white man’ in order to provide backup for Bush and ensure that Bush couldn’t be accused of any bias.

  7. I think it was pretty clear at the time that Hicks had been given a choice; plead guilty to the trumped up charge of “material support” and ye shall go free, or plead not guilty and head back to Guantanamo Bay.

  8. Reb, plus this could be interpreted as coercion which is illegal in Australia, England and the UK.

  9. No one here in Australia seems to realize that David Hicks gave an exclusive interview to Jason Leopold to weeks ago. The story he wrote is very sad and the Question and Answer interview is eye opening. The two Guantanamo guards really make the story. I can’t believe this wasn’t reported here. Here are the links and an extract:

    question and answer: http://www.truth-out.org/exclusive-an-interview-with-former-guantanamo-detainee-david-hicks67818

    the story: http://www.truth-out.org/my-tortured-journey-with-former-guantanamo-detainee-david-hicks6781

    My Tortured Journey With Former Guantanamo Detainee David Hicks

    Wednesday 16 February 2011

    by: Jason Leopold, t r u t h o u t | Investigative Report

    I’ve been struggling these past few weeks.

    I read a book written by a former Guantanamo detainee named David Hicks titled “Guantanamo: My Journey.” It’s a powerful and heartbreaking memoir and it made a profound impact on me emotionally.

    I interviewed Hicks after I read his book. We spoke about a half-dozen times over the past two months. This is the first interview he’s granted since he was released from the “least worst place” in 2007. [Click here to read the full Q&A.]

    Hicks is the Australian drifter who converted to Islam, changed his name to Muhammed Dawood and ended up at training camps in Afghanistan the US government said was linked to al-Qaeda, one of which was visited by Osama bin Laden several times. Hicks was picked up at a taxi stand by the Northern Alliance in November 2001 and sold to US forces for about $1,500. Hicks was detainee 002, the second person processed into Guantanamo on January 11, 2002, the day the facility opened.

    Hicks was brutally tortured. Psychologically and physically for four years, maybe longer. He was injected in the back of his neck with unknown drugs. He was sodomized with a foreign object. He spent nearly a year in solitary confinement. He was beaten once for ten hours. He was threatened with death. He was placed in painful stress positions. He was subjected to sleep deprivation. He was exposed to extremely cold temperatures, loud music and strobe lights designed to disorient his senses. He was interrogated on a near daily basis.

    I’ve been obsessed with the torture and rendition program since details of it first surfaced nearly a decade ago. I’m not exactly sure why I’m so fascinated and outraged by every tiny detail, every new document dump or why I chase every new lead as if I were paparazzi trying to get a shot of Lindsay Lohan. What I do know is that there’s something about the crimes committed by the Bush administration in our name that haunts me.

  10. If anyone objects to me posting here, please say so … no probs with me.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    David Hicks should have been sent home to Australia by our closest ally …

    …. also let’s not forget that he was a dickhead who wanted to play at soldiers on the wrong side – his ultimate aim (‘scuse the pun) was to try and kill Australian (and other coalition soldiers) that’s what he TRAINED for …

    … however his “punishment” was extremely severe, illegal and supported by a wayward Liberal Government … althogh his ultimate fate may have been a bullet …

    … many people believe that Julian Assange should be assisted by the present government … they have chosen not to …

    (Note: My grandfathers served in WWI (army), my parents served in WWII (mum army/dad navy), I did 2 yrs NS army, my son served 12.5 years army)

  11. Further proof, as if we needed it, that the Rodent is an unrepentant gutless brown nosing liar.

    He should be prosecuted and have his fat pension and other privileges revoked. If we still had the stocks, I’d say put him in them!! Hyacinth would really have to do the markets with WorkChoices place mats.

    I wonder how Anal and the rest of the shock cocks will respond to this little bombshell? They can hardly get stuck into the Republicans and their hero Dubya.

    I suppose they’ll try to make sure it dies from lack of oxygen. We’ll have to make sure it doesn’t.

    I’ve been meaning to buy Hicks’ book. I’ll do so at the earliest opportunity.

  12. Just beat me, TB.

    I think Hicks was adrift and like a lot of young people, got sucked into a cult. It could have been the Hares, but wasn’t.

    From what I can gather, he’d started to regret getting involved with bin Laden’s cult of hate and was trying to get his passport and come home when he was nabbed by the Northern Alliance. And was nominated to make the Rodentochracy look good.

  13. Agreed TB, but as you suggest even a dickhead deserves justice which compares with one JWHoward, Downer, Ruddock..as Jane says all privileges revoked or maybe that motley crew might enjoy a dose of waterboarding, as after all the argument was that it wasn’t really torture.

    The Japanese of course used waterboarding WW2, so tell that one to Australian personnel that it wasn’t really torture.

  14. Yes, Min, …

    If Hicks had been my son I would have reacted exactly the same as his father did …

    … however Hicks could have wounded or killed my son in action … I would have wanted blood …

    … very mixed feelings …

    … and … justice for all, is a major mover throughout the TB family …

    … as for torture … as an amateur reader of military history – I’m convinced its use is extremely limited … if not bloody useless!

  15. Takes a bit of an ability to see both sides of the question TB, yes you are right if my son had been on the receiving end of a bullet from Hicks I could never forgive that; that Hicks was either naive or stupid would not come close to being good enough.

    Re torture if as you say it doesn’t work then why did the US use it at Gitmo? Mind you I do agree because any evidence obtained via this method is completely unreliable.

  16. TB, I like to think I am reasonably measured in my thinking, I read David Hicks’ book, it was given to me as a present as you are probably aware Buranda to Cleveland is a long trip, time to read and think, Hicks like alot of us wanted to do something about the injustice the world, Kosovo, Kashmir, Iraq as we now know was based on a set of lies by an Iraqi who wanting the American Government to remove Saddam Hussein.

    A young man with no real direction in life, not understanding the consequences of his actions, and or the the people he found himself involved with.

    Somehow though I don’t believe there was actual malice involved in what he did, naivity, yes, stupidity, yes, he himself recognises that and I believe cringes from those thoughts now.

    I guess this is one for everybody to sit back and reflect on in their own way, I’m not going to challenge your thinking, I have no right too, it is my opinion and mine alone, so what’s your tipple?

  17. I listened to an interview with Mahvish Khan, and American-Afghan lawyer who authored My Guantanamo Diary about her experiences with the Guantanamo prisoners.

    I have often replayed the interview. It was so compelling, shocking. It would be difficult to read the book if the horrors described in the interview are any indication of its contents. However, the passion in the interview was convincing enough.

    Many of the prisoners were not terrorists at all. They were innocent people plucked off the street by the Northern Alliance and sold to the Americans as ‘terrorists’ just to get some easy money. One poor victim was an old man in his 80s who couldn’t even walk. The torture he was subjected to was criminal at its best.

  18. Yes, I think we all recoil from the appalling abuses people suffered because of the lies and paranoia of the Bush, Blair and Howard regimes.

    They lied to justify the invasion of Iraq and they have continued to lie about it from that day to this.

    I wonder if, in the light of this new information, the MSM will attack the Rodent and the Smuggles Set about their lies with the same ferocity they’re currently attacking Julia Gillard, who hasn’t actually lied about the carbon tax.

    I’ll make any sort of bet that if it’s given any oxygen, Anal & co will attack Hicks with renewed fury and also Jason Leopold. I can’t wait for the documents to be released and for dingbat noses to be rubbed in them.

    It’ll be like Chopper Reid wiping the floor with arch hypocrite Anal Jones. Extremely enjoyable.

  19. I am waiting for the ones about the AWB where Mr. Downer’s proved he suffered from a bad memory.

  20. This is a little off topic but still about Howard’s followers.
    Some time ago I had a look at Cory Bernardi’s website and at the time he was setting up a website called Can Do. I tried to forget about it and him, which is not possible unfortunately.
    Tonight, there are a few articles about the shock jocks, and “a continued deluge of threatening emails and phone calls”, to Independents and lo, whose name popped up… Bernardi.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/independents-say-they-are-targets-of-threat-campaign-20110302-1bexo.html

    “Mr. Windsor said that shock jocks were giving his mobile phone number to listeners as part of an orchestrated campaign that went beyond stopping a price on carbon”.

    CU, that’ll be the day when Downer’s dirty work is exposed.

    Jane, ditto.

    Would any of us be expecting Tony Abbott to issue a public rebuke to his revolting front bench parrots??
    Not bloody likely.

  21. I just read the transcript of the interview, siouxZ. Inredible stuff. Thank you for posting it.

  22. Pip, those articles you linked to are indeed damning. I am very concerned at where Abbott and the media are taking politics in this country.

  23. Pip, from your link at 1.14am..

    He (Tony Windsor) says it’s part of a broader campaign targeting him and the other three crossbench MPs who helped Labor form a minority government after the election last year. “It’s not a constituent who’s got angry and snapped over a custody case or some other matter. There’s a degree of orchestration in the emails and common language in the phone calls – the police have picked up on that. It’s more of a political exercise.

    I wonder which Young Liberals are involved???

    And the pic..wouldn’t you just love to snot Tony Abbott!!! Is this part of Abbott’s so called ‘People’s Revolt’? I’ve got it..Gillard is Gaddafi which requires a people’s revolt. Abbott and a number of the opposition are clearly unhinged.

  24. I weep. The former member for Bennelong was some piece of work.

    (and greetings from a cold Heidelberg)

  25. Augustus

    I guess this is one for everybody to sit back and reflect on in their own way, I’m not going to challenge your thinking, I have no right too, it is my opinion and mine alone, so what’s your tipple?

    Don’t misunderstand my stand, Guantanomo Bay was/is an abortion no better than the Nazi concentration camps or Russian stalags …

    … that its actually in Cuba (the USA’s arch enemy) and “owned” by no-one(??) is one of the strangest international situations in itself!

    That the COW (what an apt acronym for a strange name) heads of state and bureaucrats, lied and cheated their way to a war that made them all rich … is too cynical for words …

    To fete David Hicks is, I believe, wrong …

    … the irony is that if Howard and Bush had not tried to make him out to be some thing he wasn’t, we would not be discussing it now … two wrongs do not make a right …

    … as posters who know me will tell you I do not believe in Australia fighting other people’s wars … and I certainly don’t believe we should have invaded Iraq in the second Gulf War nor Afghanistan …

    … on a Med cruise last year I sat, most nights, next to an ex USAAF Colonel who now supplies military arm … on the last night of the cruise I said to him, I’m still trying to figure out why we should be fighting in Afghanisatan (I left that spelling! – slip of the finegers – uncanny) … he replied that’s because Australia hadn’t suffered anything like 9/11 … that’s not ananswer for me … and I still don’t know why we have troops in Afghanistan …

    Augustus … and anyone reading this … I may have a different perspective sometimes but I have been known to agree with alternatives – I enjoy having my “thinking challenged” surely that’s what these debating threads are all about – learning! (I was born in Yorkshire – I argue with myself if there’s no-one there)

    For future reference, my tipple is Wild Turkey bourbon and soda … and yours? (the bar opens at 5:00pm BTW)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    G’day joni, (mmmm … let me see, March) just starting to warm up over there … 😆

    Hope everything’s going well. Homesick yet?

    I hope your getting about ’tis a beautiful part of the world.

    I find Germans can sometimes be a bit “gruff” but thier hearts are definitely in right place … tried the beer and sausage halls yet?

    Enjoy, mate.

  26. I differ, TB (from your earlier post). In my heart I don’t believe that Hicks ever intended to be in a position that he’d kill an Aussie, let alone shoot at one.

    The suggestion that he would has been fueled by media hysteria and dare I say it, by the Howard government. The link of the interview provided by siouxZ gave me an insight to the man I never knew.

    But I do agree that he is guilty of stupidity, ironically enough.


  27. “I find Germans can sometimes be a bit “gruff” but thier hearts are definitely in right place ”

    Just remind them who won the war…

    At every opportunity!

  28. Bernadi gets his name on all sorts of dodgy things Pip

    Now, the likely outcame of this will be similar to what happened in New Zealand, but in the mean time they can use their request to manufacture doubt.

    The list of names signing the request is interesting:

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2011/02/the_war_on_the_bureau_of_meteo.php

    Although I think that is one stone they wished they had left unturned. It has left the door open for the BOM to answer claims against it, and, more importantly, it is now on the Hansard for all to see

    The difficulty with the assertions made in the cardinal’s letter is that they are based not upon contention in the climate science field but on a book written by Professor Plimer entitled Heaven and Earth–Global Warming: The Missing Science. The contents of the book are simply not scientific. I am concerned that the cardinal has been misled by the contents of this book and I do not think it should stand on the public record for that reason.

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2011/02/the_bureau_of_meteorology_figh.php

    More denialism attempting to cast fear and doubt, aided and abetted by the retrograds within the libs ranks.

  29. For future reference, my tipple is Wild Turkey bourbon and soda … and yours? (the bar opens at 5:00pm BTW)

    For you it does, TB. The rest of us start a bit earlier. :mrgreen:

  30. Clive Hamilton has a piece up over at Crikey analyzing the the violent language/reactions that have entered the climate change debate.

    In his prophecies of national ruin and calls for a “people’s revolt”, Tony Abbott has adopted a level of demagoguery rarely seen in Australian politics. And this kind of belligerent rhetoric simply serves to feed the abuse and threats being rained down on climate scientists, campaigners and parliamentarians.

    And…

    When Nick Minchin and fellow deniers say that climate change science is a conspiracy by ex-communists to pursue their goal of wrecking Western civilisation and imposing world government, sensible people scoff. But there are plenty of people out there who believe it. Convinced by high profile commentators like Janet Albrechtsen and Andrew Bolt that a secretive elite of scientists, politicians and activists are conspiring to destroy their way of life, some aggressive men have violent thoughts.

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/03/02/windsor-receives-death-threats-as-climate-of-hate-ramps-up/

  31. ‘Surely this must lead to episodes of head-banging’

    No need to associate such rabid foaming with an ‘almost’ harmless past-time Migs 😈

  32. Min, from your link:

    The only parliamentary leader in the world to agree to meet Lord Monckton, Abbott sent a signal to the Australian public that Monckton’s half-crazed theories about a plot by communists and Nazis to impose world government should be taken seriously.

    Can someone please tell me that the intense level of I’m seeing in Australian politics, the Australian media and the Australian public is nothing but a nightmare?

  33. Migs, what I’m getting is that parliamentary standards are rapidly deteriorating due to Abbott. For example, the fact that Abbott refuses to disassociate himself Mirabella’s Gillard/Gaddafi comment. That sort of comment even under Howard would have resulted in a withdrawal even if an insincere one.

  34. For you it does, TB. The rest of us start a bit earlier. :mrgreen:

    I can see that!

    I also know for some its 24/7 but we don’t all get PS pay … 😉

  35. ‘but we don’t all get PS pay’

    Or PS workloads 😉

    (Some of us have it much easier than that)

  36. ‘A Port supporter with an income over $20K a year.’

    Yea OK, now I want that Senate enquiry lol

  37. I wonder if the MSM will post in BOLD the ticking off from Harry Jenkins. Blazing headlines if it had been Julia.

  38. Have you only just noticed Miglo?
    Foolishly, I’ve watched QT, and followed Twitter, luckily.

    link from Pollytics, [September 8th, 2010]

    Let the Great Unhinging Begin
    What we will witness over the next 18 months or more is a Great Unhinging –an orgy of hysterics that will far surpass the duplicity, dishonesty – let alone the complete arsehattery – that substituted for public debate on matters of government during the previous 12 months.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2010/09/08/let-the-great-unhinging-begin/

    I’ve been wondering whether the Oppn., front bench underwent a mass castration… so high-pitched.

  39. Just as an aside, I think we need a caption competition for that photo of John Howard above.

    “Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to University Challenge. Our special guest tonight is the former member for Bennelong and much loathed prime minister John Howard. Hands on buzzers everyone. Question one and a starter for ten. True or false. Mr Howard is it true that for most of your life you have been a vindictive little lying miserable c**t?”

  40. TB, I’ve been meaning to ask, how’s your son? Is he home and OK?

    For future reference, my tipple is Wild Turkey bourbon and soda … and yours? (the bar opens at 5:00pm BTW)

    Is that EST, TB? I think I’ll have an ouzo and coke today. 🙂

    Hi joni. Waves.

    Pip @1.14am, I’ve just spent the last couple of hours reading the comments on the link you provided and have managed to have a comment published!

    I was pleasantly surprised that a majority of commenters, were appalled that Tony Windsor’s mobile number and email address had been broadcast by Anal and his other execrable tribe members.

    And I actually had my comment, reminding the dingbats that if they were prepared to ignore all the Rodent’s lies and obfuscations, they’re hardly in a position to criticise Gillard, published.

    siouxZ, I’ll add my thanks for the transcript. Migs and Pip, thanks for the link. And I echo your concern at where Smuggles is taking political debate in this country; feeding it through the trough of shock jock dog whistling is a disgrace.

    I hope this latest revelation about David Hicks gets plenty of oxygen.

    Just remind them who won the war…

    At every opportunity!

    Are your middle names “Trouble in an Empty House”, reb? 😀

    Tom R @ 11.01am, I very much doubt that Pell has been unintentionally misled.

    Tom, Cori Bernardi and Mary Jo Fisher are South Australians. Surely this must lead to episodes of head-banging.

    As are little Chrissy Whynne and Minchin. Migs. Keep banging.

    Migs @11.57am, I’d demand a share of it. 🙂

  41. Ahhh! Just in time for the bar!

    Just popped in for the odd ‘un …

    Jane, thanks for asking – son is back at work and firing! He’s 40 this year so big celebration in November! I’m quite surprised he made it past 13 actually! 😀

    re: drinks and EST — its always 5:00pm somewhere in the world … 😉

    As for ouzo – I never really liked it much, till I discovered how it should be mixed, on a little cruise boat out of Samos Island … the Greeks mix it half and half with water goes milky and tastes luverly!

    *clink* to all! I’m actually drinking tea! Off out to dinner with our friends tonight – he just turned 83 – and still has 70 clients (just reduced the number) he’s an accountant … and just asked my advice on claiming the pension 😯 I have no idea …

  42. Driving, Migs, thanks … 🙂

    On the QT, I think my friend has a wee bottle for me — I purchased and set up his new Dell a couple of weeks a go — and dropped a big hint to The Minister …

  43. “…. also let’s not forget that he was a dickhead who wanted to play at soldiers on the wrong side – his ultimate aim (‘scuse the pun) was to try and kill Australian (and other coalition soldiers) that’s what he TRAINED for …”

    I’m really time poor at the moment so will attempt to cram this in.

    Little bit off the mark. Hicks first went mercenary in Kosovo with a nasty paramilitary mob but as they were allies noone batted an eyelid. It was that conflict where the RPG pic came from.

    He went to Afghanistan for much the same reason as Kosovo and not to kill allied troops including Australians. He trained in the Taliban/Al Queda camps because he wanted to fight the Northern Forces or any of the other warlords fighting the Taliban.

    AFP interrogation

    > OFFICER J: All right, and you were going to – you said you intended to fight. Against whom?
    >
    > DAVID HICKS: Northern Alliance.

    Almost as soon as the US bombings started Hicks ran, not to the front lines to fight with the Taliban against allied troops, but away from it to get out of the country. Hardly the moves of someone wanting to shoot Australian troops.

    From what I read he was captured by Northern Forces trying to get out of Afghanistan and as the US had put rewards on the capture of Westerners fighting with the Taliban Hicks was handed over.

    DEBBIE WHITMONT: David Hicks was captured by the Northern Alliance in December 2001, and sold to the Americans for a thousand dollars. It’s agreed Hicks never fired a shot in the conflict.

  44. World integrity just took a nosedive. Rupert Murdoch’s BSkyB takeover gets UK government go ahead. News Corporation has been given government approval for its controversial takeover of BSkyB.

    The green light follows News Corp’s offer to spin-off Sky News as an independent company.

    The decision follows concerns about the concentration of media outlets in the hands of one organisation.

    Rival UK media groups dismissed News Corp’s offer as a “whitewash” and said they would “vigorously contest” the takeover.

    More here:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12631875

  45. TB, I am certainly not misunderstanding you on your stance about Guantanomo Bay, I agree whole heartedly like everyone on this post, it was criminal!, I think we are on the same page, but read it differently, I try hard to look at life through positive eyes, that’s all, if I am wrong, I am wrong, and will take it on the chin, only time will tell.

    “I enjoy having my “thinking challenged” surely that’s what these debating threads are all about – learning!” my sentiments exactly

    BTW, I’m a single malt man myself, ‘neat’, usually with a side order of JJ Cale

    or if the mood strikes a little SRV

  46. Reb,

    “Question one and a starter for ten. True or false. Mr Howard is it true that for most of your life you have been a vindictive little lying miserable c**t?””

    buzzzzzzzzz, Yes!

    Applause.

    Question two, and for another ten, True or False, Did you in fact, deliberately cause racial riot within the Australian community with your “White Australian” views as a means of cheap political point scoring?.

  47. Migs, “World integrity just took a nosedive. Rupert Murdoch’s BSkyB takeover gets UK government go ahead”.

    Welcome to the Murdochracy, and may all those who sail in her have their Chicken’s turn into Emu’s and kick their dunny doors down.

  48. TB, interview between Andrew Denton and Michael Parkinson

    Denton “So how did I go?”
    Parkinson “If you were a Yorkshireman, you would have been perfect”

  49. I could quite happily go a nightcap myself. Currently raiding the fridge. Doesn’t look any different to it did three hours ago.

  50. Migs, the fridge might not have looked any different when you arrived but I’ll bet that it looked different by the time that you left 😉

  51. Migs, is David Cameron attempting his version of the thousand year reich? The only problem is that he hasn’t factored in Emperor Rupert’s fickle nature. Tomorrow Cameron could be subject to the Emperor’s cold corrosive stare.

    Lying down with that particular dog will guarantee he’ll get up infested with fleas.

    I take it a trip to Dan Murphy is now in order?

  52. Adrian, thanks for that (ie David Hicks’ potted history!) I stand corrected!

    (I still think he was/is a DH though 😉 )

    Augustus – high praise from, Parky! (nice, Glenfiddich, OK, this evening … with a wee touch of water from the glen, of course …?)

    Back to the “project” …!

  53. Who remembers Major Michael Mori who defended David Hicks..I’m guessing we all do….and who remembers Colonel [Mo] Morris Davis who prosecuted Hick’s case.

    Surprise Surprise……….

    “America’s much abused moral authority”.

    “As former chief prosecutor at Guantanamo I know that until the U.S. rights the record on torture, it’s human rights calls ring hollow”.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/mar/05/torture-obama-administration?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    This man did what was required as a U.S. Marine, and now he is saying what is required as an ordinary man.
    It’s a lengthy article which finishes with:-

    “The United States cannot stand up for justice and the rule of law when it sits idly on it’s own record of torture. It diminishes the weight of it’s moral authority to influence others around the world when it treats it’s binding obligations as options it can choose to exercise or ignore. If President Obama is sincere about standing up for fundamental values then America’s actions must live up to it’s rhetoric”.

    I’m sure the tortured prisoners at Gitmo and everywhere else would agree.
    [Twitter is very bad, it keeps people out of bed!]

  54. Amazing and highly unusual, Sky news is providing positive commentary about Julia Gillard. In describing Gillard’s US visit…that President Obama is likely to seek Gillard’s advice re the carbon price (Obama to date having been unsuccessful).

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