Gillard & State Premiers Achieve Healthcare Agreement

Julia Gillard

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The agreement is still to be finalised, more details to be worked on, but essentially this is a win for both PM Gillard & the State Premiers…having signed a heads of agreement on healthcare reform.

This leaves negabore Coalition leader Tony Abbott dusting himself off, as the government by signing this agreement, has sped past him on his soapbox holding an “End of Gillard is Nigh” sign – the man who as Health Minister cut what should’ve been an increase in spending by a billion dollars. 

Earlier Abbott tried to stay ahead of the game by accusing the Gillard government of “backflipping”…not quite as dramatic as his previous ridiculous “biggest surrender since Singapore” comment…but still an exaggeration.

An important breakthrough was made by the PM at the COAG meeting today as she was able to convince the Premiers to agree to a national funding pool…whilst the government made a pragmatic compromise itself by accepting the States could keep their GST.

As summarised by ABC on-line:

Under the new deal, the Federal and State Governments will contribute money into a national funding pool to pay for the health system.

The funds will then be paid out to the states and territories on the basis of how many operations or procedures they perform.

“It [multiple distributing bodies] would have risked over time that information was not truly comparable nationally,” Ms Gillard said.

“As a result of today’s agreement we are sweeping away those eight separate bureaucracies for one national funding body.

“While this has been a very long day, it has been a very successful outcome.

“[We will be] able to ensure hospitals around the nation are transparently and fairly funded and that information between states is truly comparable.”

Now that the deal is done, the states stand to receive more than $16.4 billion extra for their health systems by the end of this decade.

As well as the signed heads of agreement, Ms Gillard also secured a jointly-signed national partnership agreement dealing with targets in emergency departments and elective surgery.

Ms Gillard said many of the elements of the agreement would be implemented from July 1.

 Once again we see PM Julia Gillard’s superior negotiating skills put to good use and her coming up with the goods.

It is doubtful that Tony Abbott could’ve achieved such an outcome due to his overt hostility towards anything ALP, including State governments, and his wonky, inconsistent negotiating approach as evidenced by his failing to convince enough Independents to come his way to form a stable government last year.

As longtime contributor Mobius puts it:

Abbott could never have achieved anything like this, absolutely no way.

What was also telling was the indirect digs at the Howard government over raping the health system without actually mentioning the Howard government directly, except for Mike Rann who said straight out that as the states were putting in more money Howard was taking it out faster. The most important thing in this agreement that Gillard insisted on and all the states agreed to is the transparency. It was hiding the Federal health money and then blaming the States for shortfalls that allowed Howard to screw the system. That cannot happen under this new agreement.

Remember people who was health minister under Howard.

Unbelievably great stuff and this is how the Federation should work and show that States are still viable and not an unnecessary layer of government.

The momentum is certainly at this present time with the government.

Over to you.

N’

97 comments on “Gillard & State Premiers Achieve Healthcare Agreement

  1. From news.com . . .

    JULIA Gillard tonight ended a tortuous six hours of negotiation by winning agreement from the states for a new scheme of centralised hospital funding.

    It was a breakthrough for the Prime Minister who is badly trailing Opposition Leader Tony Abbott despite a series of Liberal controversies.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/gillard-pushes-50-50-hospital-cash-deal/story-e6frfkvr-1226005358558#ixzz1DqBsPvfh

    Unfknblvble! The preferred Prime Minister is badly trailing Abbott!

    BTW, thanks for putting the topic up Nas. I go off to watch a movie and in the meantime the world changes.

    Thanks to Mobius too, for the suggestion. He’s been full of ’em today. That’s what we like to see.

  2. If what we saw today is a PM under stress and in trouble, I wonder how she presents when she is at ease and confident. If the reports are true that she is desperate, she need not worry about her future if she is forced to leave politics. She can become a successful actress.

  3. “It was a breakthrough for the Prime Minister who is badly trailing Opposition Leader Tony Abbott despite a series of Liberal controversies”

    Is that another of those polls with a 4-4.5 error margin because of a small sample that the media prefer today

  4. Is that another of those polls with a 4-4.5 error margin because of a small sample that the media prefer today

    No, I think it’s just some more cock and bull from the Murdoch media who see Tones as the rightful PM. Julia smashed their chosen one in the preferred PM poll last week. How could they so quickly forget?

    “Badly trailing”. I can’t believe they’re so up themselves that they can print utter rubbish like that.

  5. “The preferred Prime Minister is badly trailing Abbott!”

    Migs,
    Malcolm Farr is telling a whopper there…by sneaking that in to the article he is demonstrating his bias…and being a ‘tricky dick’.

    The PM is in fact ahead of Abbott as preferred PM in the polls.

    Thnx for pointing this discrepancy out…tho, I don’t know how you can put yerself thru the agony of reading such attempted perception manufacturing manure.

    “thanks for putting the topic up”

    No problemo. Whipped it up fast so not a huge amount of detail. I’m sure you & our well-researched contributors can fill in more details by way of comments.

    Cheers
    N’

  6. Latest Nielson poll has 2PP Labor going south and the Coalition on an easy win for an election. In the PPM Abbott has risen significantly and it’s 51:41 to Gillard, so he might be referring to that.

    That all happened before the Liberal Party implosion last week, and there is something definitely wrong with these polls as Possum has pointed out where on individual policy matters like the Flood Levy the government comes out way ahead. So somehow the people are saying we like what the government is doing but don’t want it in power.

    ——————–
    Abbott and the OO can attempt to spin this anyway they like, even misrepresent the facts of the COAG meeting like understating how long it took, but the fact is this is a major victory for Gillard and the government and as I stated one that Abbott with his confrontational style would never have achieved, let alone he would never have given the States anything extra anyway and then blamed them for health shortfalls.

    The one consistent thing I saw in the doorstop interviews with the Premiers was that the negotiations throughout were tough but conducted cordially, professionally and with respect to all those there.

    That is the telling bit and why it is disconcerting to me to think that because of a rabid right wing media spewing forth misdirections and lies, Abbott who is a terrible leader could actually become PM whilst real leaders like Gillard are sidelined.

  7. I actually think this is the perfect time to be down in the polls (assuming that there ever is a good time). Unlike the previous election, where the governmnet was miles in front right up to basically the last few weeks, ealry in the term is the opportune time to be down. Howard consitantly was, and always came home stong (in no small part thanks to generous handouts). Also, while I think there is popular support for the levy, the simple fact of anti-tax campaigns just paints the governmnet in a bad light. It is all we are going to hear from hte opposition and their rag in the coming months.

    Gillard will make all the unpopular decisions now, so that closer to the elction, the pain will not be felt. Rudd did the opposite (although that was directed more by events than design) Massive handouts early in the governments life, which they knew would need tougher measures later. Unfortunately, around when the election was called. No chance of buying voters then. Only bad news for punters.

    If Gillard can get the mining tax and price on carbon through within the next year, then she has plenty of time after that to get back in the polls. Both are going to hurt them politically (the opposition and their oracle will see to that). Their poularity coming into the election will largely depend on the success of those two taxes. And the fact that the implimentation of these will be good news for the economy (if implemented correctly).

    And, successes like the agreement between the states today can’t hurt. Compared with yabot, who now appears to support Rudds plan (which is so close to this one….well.)

  8. This comment from The Age sums it up for me:

    This poll is either an outlier (especially on top of Coalition fiascos this week) or there are even more imbeciles in Australia than even previously thought.
    We are a lucky country compared with the rest of the world.
    However, the rabid right assisted by a compliant media continuously complain about shortcomings.

    Dr John | Brighton – February 14, 2011, 7:40AM

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/coalition-surges-to-decisive-lead-20110213-1as26.html

    Tho, I prefer to see it as an “outlier”.

    BTW, there are American presidents who would’ve killed to have Gillard’s approval ratings.

    I do not feel these polls are reflecting the disatisfaction w/ Abbott’s performance…and the problems in the Liberal party.

    It just seems to me these polls conveniently show up in the nick of time to save Abbott’s bacon.

    The QLD poll has to be way off. Absurd.

    Something stinks in the state of polling.

    I mean surely the majority of people aren’t getting their news from biased cock jocks, dopey, ad-driven morning shows, and the Murdoch propaganda machine?

    Could we seriously have a population so ill-informed & naive?

    I hope not.

    N’

  9. ‘or there are even more imbeciles in Australia than even previously thought’

    Having read akerman and bolts columns recently, and having received emails from friends parroting the obvious crap therein, I reckon I might go with this ascertion.

    Many believe what they want to believe.

  10. “If Gillard can get the mining tax and price on carbon through within the next year, then she has plenty of time after that to get back in the polls.”

    Good point Tom…provided the Indies have the courage to stand by them.

    Lot of bullying goin’ on these days…can “good men” put the country first & ignore the assault?

    We predicted there would be a negative campaign the likes of which we’ve only seen since the ongoing bashing of Ruddy.

    They started bombing Gillard from the first week she took the leadership…some of it warranted…but far too much of it distortions & hyperbole…or just plain bullsh*t.

    The media landscape MUST change…the government MUST go on the offensive w/ its own campaigns & improve communication of its policies & accomplishments & goals.

    No more silly own goals.

    Full steam ahead.

    Be fearless.

    Kick Abbott’s nuts in. Metaphorically.

    Tired of too much softly, softly approach.

    N’

  11. I recommend Mr. Denmore’s piece…he’s right to point out the ABC, our public broadcaster, has played an apathetic role by too often copying & repeating, ad nauseum, the Opposition’s view of things:

    On the day the nation’s federal and state leaders met in Canberra to thrash out a new deal on health reform, the ABC’s website ran with this headline: ‘Desperate’ Gillard Set to Push Health Reform. Once again, our national broadcaster chooses as its preferred angle the Opposition’s interpretation of the story rather than the facts of the proposed reforms themselves, a baffling tendency this blog has explored before here.

    One might have thought a smart editor at the ABC – without one eye on the balance nazis with stopwatches – could have chosen to add some value for readers with, perhaps, a timeline graphic of the attempted reforms to date, a selection of views from health economists on issues and trade-offs involved, a case study of the funding pressures in a state hospital, a breakdown of the health budget and where the money goes; in fact anything but the lazy, knee-jerk recycling of an Opposition press release.

    Read the entire enlightening post here:

    http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/

    N’

  12. Nasking. Even though Bligh done a magnificent job throughout the recent destructions, a vast majority of voters in Qld are still savage with the Beattie/Bligh Government in selling off State assets, we are now paying higher fees, the cost of living have skyrocketed, and the dumping of Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister has turned the voters completely away from the Labor Party both Federally and State.

  13. Yes, good article Mr Denmore. Something I have noticed occuring quite often recently is the little ‘quotes’ in the headline, usually a negative comment made by the opposition, doesn’t include their name in the title. This was often left out. But more and more, I am seeing Gillards name next to the negative quote, which kinda implies that she is the one making these comments. Alternatively, if the government says something negative about the opposition, then thetile includes the commentators name.

    P.S. I have added a comment to the prevoius article Mr Denmore had up in relation to yabots ‘shit happens’, because I thought he raised a point a point which pretty much trumped everything else I had been rabbitting on about over there.

    http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com/2011/02/beaten-not-stirred.html

  14. And, just because I can, and because there is no general thread anywhere, and because its under two weeks away.

    Amazing what can be done with a handheld device. If only the sound quality could match the picture quality. I remember when their concerts was a sea of fists in the air, now its a sea of phones lol 🙂

  15. Thanks Tom. The explanation for all this is that much of the media, particularly the ABC, completely misunderstands what “balance” means in journalism. It does not mean providing equal time for views from either extreme in a debate, on the assumption that by doing this it is covering all the bases. It does not mean treating with equivalence an off-the-cuff cute quote from an opposition hack in a quick and dirty news release with a substantial government policy statement.

    Journalists’ first obligation, irrespective of accountants’ ideas of balance, is to the truth. And their first loyalty is always to citizens against those in authority. They are not the “spokespeople” for politicians, they are the intermediators and the contextualisers.

    But, anyway, I’ll keep banging on about this until someone gets it.

  16. I note that some media commentators are now attempting to underplay the significance of the national health reform deal, even saying it’s more of the same only now the blame game is equal.

    The next line down the track will be to repeat that the two Labor governments have achieved very little since coming into power and haven’t undertaken any hard reforms.

    They really are predictable, but it’s so sad that our media has come to this, mouth pieces for a dysfunctional right wing party and their loose cannon and incompetent leader.

    On the ABC. Melissa Clarke on News Breakfast this morning just couldn’t allow the successful negotiations on health reform be a positive for the government. In what started as a fairly neutral piece from her, itself unusual as she always bashes the government and Labor whilst talking up Abbott and the opposition, she ended getting almost tongue tied, actually oddly twisting her mouth, in getting out that the transparency meant that the States held the Federal government to account, and here is where she twisted her mouth, this move will stop the Feds ripping off the system that has been going on for a decade…. many decades now.

    Note what she did here. First she shifts the blame totally to the Federal government leaving out the fact that the States contribution is also transparent and accountable. So it’s a 50/50 accountability, not just and accountability on the Federal government.

    Then in saying the Feds had been ripping off the system for a decade, which is absolutely true, she instantly realised she’s implicated mostly the previous Coalition government and by inference Abbott as the health minister in that government. Couldn’t have that so she twisted her mouth and did an awkward chuckle as she immediately corrected the decade to many decades thus neatly implicating most previous governments including Hawke/Keating and shifting the blame away from mostly Howard.

  17. Crowey,
    you make some valid points, something I was warning the ALP about in comments last week & was criticised for.

    Tho, I do think the poll is extreme.

    Still…

    It does have alot to do w/ cost of living pressures here in QLD now tho…I think many Sydney-siders & such don’t realise how expensive homes, rent and electricity have gotten here the past few years.

    The sale of assets & water price increases haven’t helped.

    However,
    it’s about time more of us QLDers woke up to the fact that a Coalition federal government, in combination w/ a LNP state win in the future (Bligh is popular now but it will be hard for her govt to translate that into an election win)…would decimate the wages & conditions of anyone working in public service…and that in itself would damage families already on the edge.

    Add changes to workplace legislation…

    the wrecking of the NBN…

    creating a mass of lowish paid jobs in the private & public sectors will only exacerbate problems & make the rich richer…

    cutting taxes whilst holding off on necessary infrastructure is short-term insanity.

    And what answers do the public think the Coalition have for dealing w/ the electricity price problems?

    Electricity prices are astronomical in every country.

    I still think we have it pretty good compared to the rest of the world…and there is a certain sefish ME ME MEism & whining attitude that has infected the country during the Howard/Murdoch years that continues to this time…

    it’s obviously gonna be a tuff time for the government…but they’ve got to do the right thing…move forward and break on thru…

    lest the chance for real reform is lost for many years.

    Less vaguery…better selling I reckon…and
    keep the heat on every aspect of the Coalition.

    N’

  18. A Valentine For Julia

    Some describe you as a ‘hard head’
    But we know you’re far from heart dead.
    This week, Julia, you’ve clearly shown
    Such genuine grief, all doubts have flown.

    You’re forthright, strong and no fibber,
    Stand-out model for any Libber.
    Throughout your career; from the start,
    You’ve never been a bleeding heart.

    But, intelligent and aware,
    Conflicts you resolve with flair.
    Questions on why you’re not married
    Laughingly you’ve always parried.

    Which echoes another ‘Welsh’ red head
    Who resolutely refused to wed.
    You know, that weak and feeble woman
    With heart and stomach of……
    oops!……a human?

    Julia, you may not be a Tudor, born to rule,
    But you surely come from that gene pool.

    .

  19. “The one consistent thing I saw in the doorstop interviews with the Premiers was that the negotiations throughout were tough but conducted cordially, professionally and with respect to all those there.”

    Our Virginia on the you know morning show noticed some trepidation in the Premiers responses.
    Her companion did not miss an opportunity to be scathing of the PM, joking that down the track we will see her in her surgical mask tramping around hospital wards.
    When she was on AM, I had some respect for her mind and views. I wish I knew why she has changed and lost her judgement. The only thing I can think of is that she is easily influenced by those she keeps company with or wants a job on the commercial media.

  20. Nasking. Firstly Gillard and the Labor Party has a whole have got to start getting the message across to the voting public in what they have achieved in the likes of rebuilding eleven and half years of Howard’s waning infrastructure, since they won Government 2007, that alone should start turning the polls into their favor.

  21. Crowey,
    I agree.

    I just can’t understand why we don’t see them out there every couple of days visiting some infrastructure, a school BER success, a rolled out part of the NBN, a functioning Trades Trade Centre & Super Clinic…

    why are they so afraid to promote their accomplishments?

    The public need images to go w/ the statements.

    Furthermore, yer correct in sayin’ that QLDers are still dealing w/ the loss of Rudd. It will be a slow process for Julia to gain back trust.

    It is not helped by more Rudd bashing by the likes of Milne…a sense he’s bein’ made into a convenient scapegoat.

    Nor is it assisted by traitorous leaks…whichever
    idiot(s) in the ALP dobbed on/distorted the Rudd leaving cabinet in a hurry bit…they need to know they are undermining their own popularity in QLD w/ every knife they plunge in his back.

    My wife & I were pretty pissed about it when we heard. Dumb selfish fcks. More own goals at a time when Abbott & co. were on the backfoot.

    Provided of course the media aren’t making it up or distorting themselves. I have no trust in Samantha Maiden of News Ltd. A Murdoch lackey.

    N’

  22. Tom @8.55am re “Gillard will make all the unpopular decisions now, so that closer to the elction, the pain will not be felt. Rudd did the opposite (although that was directed more by events than design) Massive handouts early in the governments life, which they knew would need tougher measures later.”

    I think that you are spot on and that Gillard should go hard and go early..in fact do a Little Johnny, get the controversial things out of the way first/things which might have negative campaigns run against them in the MSM. Also, I doubt that Gillard will wait knowing that this might be Labor’s last chance of reform.

    I don’t believe that indies will send Australia to an early election as firstly it would confirm Abbott’s opinion that they had made a mistake in the first place – they also want the chance to achieve their own goals which they know can’t happen with Abbott in charge.

  23. ‘they also want the chance to achieve their own goals which they know can’t happen with Abbott in charge.’

    Ditto. He has proved himself to unreliable I would think for any of them to take any of his promises with too much credence. Gillard on the other hand has proved that she will negotiate fairly and openly with them, so for them, the current arrangement would suit them far better than upsetting the boat. As long as the government don’t lose their cool or start taking them for granted.

  24. Finally a positive and actually a sensible piece on this and what I believe is the way ahead for COAG. Good on you Alan.

    New agreement a healthy way to run the system

    What the media have not reported on, no surprise as it’s yet another important positive for Gillard, is that the health reform was not the only agreement reached in this meeting.

    COAG have agreed to Gillard’s idea for the future planning of these meetings in that five highest priority items are identified and then prioritised for each meeting. The Closing the Gap is a high priority item. Another area Abbott failed in as a minister yet I saw someone state that Abbott is good in aboriginal affairs because he’s been out there on the ground with them. Visiting them for photo ops and to look good for the media does not make you good at your portfolio as Abbott has proven time and again.

  25. “The public need images to go w/ the statements.”

    I don’t imagine the lack of them is about Labor not putting them out, Nasking. It’s more likely part of the whole MSM slant we see in editorialising and in reporting. They select what they want to use. It’s very hard to break through that, no matter how much you bombard them with PR releases plus pictures. It’s significant that when the unions bring their money to an advertising campaign pre-elections on big ticket items then the public mind set can change. Can they or the Labor party afford that kind of money mid term?

  26. “Her companion did not miss an opportunity to be scathing of the PM, joking that down the track we will see her in her surgical mask tramping around hospital wards.”

    CU,
    As Michael Rowland so often does.

    Frankly, I reckon it’s ‘tricky dick’ comments like his that partially undermine the governments occasional attempts to promote the accomplishments…show the people they are getting useful stuff for their buck.

    Rowland is an extremely snide & irritating character…you can’t help but feel he dislikes this government.

    “On the ABC. Melissa Clarke on News Breakfast this morning just couldn’t allow the successful negotiations on health reform be a positive for the government. In what started as a fairly neutral piece from her, itself unusual as she always bashes the government and Labor whilst talking up Abbott and the opposition, she ended getting almost tongue tied”

    Interestingly Mobius,
    my wife saw her on the weekend and said “She’s got to be a Liberal…I never hear anything positive about the government pass her lips”.

    I’m not sure about her allegiances, but Clarke certainly does have a problem w/ balance…and reporting the positives related to the government.

    I still think, like Mr. Denmore, this has a great deal to do w/ apathy & copycatting the Murdoch press.

    I observed similar on American television from the moment Fox News started pumping the “#1 cable news” line…

    real herd mentality…partially based on cost cutting by other networks…being sucked in by astroturfing…dominance of Bush admin & pressure by supporting corporates…talking heads & journos playing it safe in case they needed in future to get a job w/ Fox or other Murdoch outlets…even fear of Murdoch’s growing power at that time I imagine.

    And the effectiveness of that group’s propaganda machine at the time, in conjunction w/ America’s ABC network etc..

    The corporatisation of public television has not helped either…include addition of many, ever-complaining, influential, politically & media connected to Right-wing board members.

    N’

  27. If Abbott were to convinced the Indies to shift their alliance over to the Conservatives, the knives would be out as quick as the eyes could blink, because Abbott and the Billionaire/Millionaire club wants complete control of both Houses of Parliament.

  28. I have been listening to Mr. Dutton. Talk about a confused response. First he alleges that PM Gillard back flipped on Mr. Rudd’s arrangement. Mr. Dutton then said that the only changed is the funding pool. He then said the removing of bureaucracy layers is what Mr. Rudd put into place, not the PM. Mr. Dutton disagreed with what the head of the AMA who said the central financing agreement was important, alleging that this is not what PM Gillard was proposing. When asked to find something positive, he refused.
    Has PM Gillard ditched Mr. Rudd’s scheme or has she built on his plans, changing the way it is funded. Sorry if this is confused, because I sure found Mr. Dutton very hard to follow. Replaying the interview did not make any clearer what he said. I am sure I have some of it wrong.

  29. “I don’t imagine the lack of them is about Labor not putting them out, Nasking. It’s more likely part of the whole MSM slant we see in editorialising and in reporting. They select what they want to use.”

    Never an excuse Patricia…if one way isn’t working you find another.

    The government could improve its web sites. Take its own camera crew out there…put footage up on the web sites, youtube…use Facebook better…

    the occasional door knock by local members w/ pamphlets and such to promote accomplishments/projects.

    Don’t just let the Coalition hit Meet the Press (Pyne) during Healthcare Reform & bad time for Tony week.

    I still reckon the SELL could be more effective and more widespread & intense.

    And more details please…less vaguery.

    Better stuff on Sky Agenda this morn from Andrew Leigh…at least providing more details of health reform. Could be a wee bit more dynamic tho…a bit flat.

    N’

  30. A useful & passionate post from Hillbilly Skeleton at the Political Sword blog:

    The Fox Fish Rots from the Head Down

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2011/02/14/The-Fox-Fish-Rots-from-the-Head-Down.aspx

    Now, whilst it may not be as overt as in the USA, if we just take a look at how The Australian and SkyTV circled the wagons around Tony Abbott last week after his, so obvious it was embarrassing to watch (but, like a car crash in slow motion we did. Again. And again.), major brain explosion after Mark Riley had the effrontery to not follow the media script, we could see clearly that a pattern of behaviour by the Murdoch journos is in operation here in Australia, just as it is overseas, when it comes to doing the spade work to protect a favoured political son or daughter

    I own up to subscibing to Foxtel…I got close to dumping it last year…but as I comment regularly on politics I felt the need to access various news channels (including world ones), regardless of their bias, and A-PAC to watch parliamentary proceedings…

    furthermore, I luv sci-fi shows.

    That is not to say I wouldn’t drop Foxtel in a heartbeat if there was a real viable alternative for my needs. Foxtel we should also remember is owned by various shareholders…not just Murdoch. Tho, they also leave alot to be desired.

    Regardless of what some might want to believe, I am not infected by Sky News-oriented propaganda…having watched Fox News intensely from ’98 – 2006 (very rarely these days) I spent a great deal of time on various blogs identifying bias, tactics, techniques, problematics…& characteristics of talking heads & reporters.

    I’ve applied same to the rest of the Murdoch media, including SKY NEWS…therefore any one who worries that my views are being swayed by their propaganda & techniques can be comforted by the fact that I have taught myself to be highly resistant to propaganda, dominant ideological & BS messages over the years.

    Furthermore, I taught lessons on global propaganda & media theory in schools. And have a degree in media & communication studies.

    Questioning a government’s policy & program marketing efficiency/style…and providing feedback, sometimes critical, of interviews, policy & such does not indicate one is bein’ brainwashed.

    Noone learns from being offered up just undying, uncritical support.

    As for SKY NEWS Australia specifically…they do have their balanced moments by way of various ‘Agenda’ shows thruout the day…and often provide both mainstream parties opportunities to give their positions on issues & policy.

    Occasionally, we’ll hear from a Green or Indie. Particularly in the lead up to the last election…which could be construed as the Murdoch empire attempting to undermine ALP support the way it was done in the last UK election.

    The digital news headlines do generally tend to favour the Coalition…oft by leaving out criticism of Abbott & co.

    ‘Contrarians’ has its balanced moments…but can get very “softly spoken tricky dick’ when push comes to shove.

    On some weekend Agendas I have observed a group of News Ltd hacks trying to ambush Laborites in a host/panel situation…usually involving Paul Kelly.

    Anyway, anyone acquainted w/ my posts & comments over the years knows this information I’ve set out above…and my view of the Murdoch empire.

    I do feel Hillbilly has made many a valid point tho in her original post.

    Cheers
    N’

  31. I’m off for the rest of the day as my wife has asked me to take a rest & recoup after an intense month of posting & commenting.

    I will pop in tho and check comments…

    Cheers all.

    Useful contributions so far.

    N’

  32. The complete absence of this milestone agreement on the front page of news.com confirms that it’s a winner. Abbott has nothing further to say on the issue, so it’s now dead.

    Yet how lond before we again hear that this is a ‘do nothing government’.

  33. I find it extraordinary that there has been a 20point turnaround in preferred PM in a week. I wonder if they just polled LIEberal party HQ. If not, I think they all should check that their calculators have fully charged batteries.

    But, anyway, I’ll keep banging on about this until someone gets it.

    I think they get it, Mr Denmore, they just don’t care. They’re all vying to fall under Emperor Rupert’s malevolent gaze for their thirty pieces of silver. Meanwhile they’re selling this country down the river.

    Could it be classed as treason? They are helping an enemy alien to overthrow a lawfully elected government. How about citizen’s arrest and into the tumbrils with them?

    Regarding the curent mob of hacks at the ABC, I reckon the government should quietly replace the likes of Trioli and Clarke with staff who actually know what unbiased means.

    I don’t expect the government to get a free run, but it’s about time the ABC staff stopped acting like another arm of the Murdochracy and presented the truth about both the opposition and the government. Not a big ask one would think, despite the poison being injected by Emperor Rupert and his minions.

  34. Sorry Nas but as I’ve said before most of what you are proposing to sell the government will not work under our current media climate.

    You only have to look at Rudd and the moment he attempted to sell his government’s record he was shouted down as being all spin and no action, and that was levelled at him so often in such a short time that everything he did or said from then on was affixed with the “all spin” meme.

    Julia did everything right yesterday in articulating the health reform agreement and even had the backing of Liberal Premiers but still this morning, from News Ltd to the ABC, are putting negative spins on it and nothing Gillard or the government does will overcome that and in all likelihood to attempt to correct the media would result in worse fallout.

    The government is hamstrung and at the mercy of the media and knows it, so can only get on and do the job to the best of their ability with as little fanfare as possible and let the results speak and hope they are not overwhelmed by the negative and untruthful media criticisms.

  35. Crowey et al there was a small sentence inserted at the end of article in The Age on Saturday I think it was…yet another statement by Tony Windsor that he wasn’t interested in doing deals with Abbott.

    And in an answer to Barrie Cassidy http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2011/s3137440.htm

    “To answer your direct question I think there’s a very good chance the Government will run its course.”

  36. Regarding the curent mob of hacks at the ABC, I reckon the government should quietly replace the likes of Trioli and Clarke with staff who actually know what unbiased means.

    Cannot be done under the ABC charter, nor can the government replace board members until their terms expire or they retire.

    Howard lucked in that during his term a majority of board members terms came up and a couple retired so he was able to instil his own hacks for a long time. He also managed to put such a fear of bias into the ABC that where they were not biased before, as a couple of Howard enquiries found, they definitely are biased now, for the Liberals.

  37. Migs @1.15pm. From your link…

    …taking a really hard look to make sure that there aren’t people currently incentivised to be on disability pensions who really would be much better off going back to work, even if it is only part-time or less rigorous work.

    I must let eldest know that she has spent the past 8 years not really trying to get people with disabilities/long term unemployed into jobs and training. Obviously she and other dedicated professionals must be doing a lousy job at ‘incentivising’.

  38. ME, I should have qualified that remark. I meant that when their contracts expire, that they are replaced them with people who take their job seriously and are prepared to do it properly. Trioli, in particular seems more like a reporter for E News than a serious journalist.

    For the time being, I don’t think it would hurt for the government to start complaining about ABC bias and give them the Richard Alston treatment. As it stands, they are enjoying carte blanch.

    I hope the government has board replacements ready for when the current crop of Tea Partiers’ terms expire. Gillard should bundle them out the back door at lightning speed.

  39. “1. COAG health reform: a long road to … where?
    Melissa Sweet writes:
    COAG, HEALTH FUNDING, HEALTH REFORMS

    Nor has the government shown any real sign of stepping up to the political battles required for substantive primary health care reform. Tackling premiers is one thing; picking a fight with the powerful provider and health industry groups is quite another matter, as we’ve already seen with the change of plans around diabetes care.

    As health policy analyst Jennifer Doggett says, creating a primary care sector that is genuinely centred around consumers “will require a substantial investment of funds and political capital”…

    “Powerful interest groups, such as the AMA, will strongly oppose the much-needed shake-up of doctors’ near-monopoly of Medicare funding and a move away from the fee-for-service system of health financing,” she said. “Achieving major changes in these areas will be a greater challenge than persuading the states and territories to hand over some responsibility for hospitals.”…

    The COAG agreement is particularly thin in the critical areas of mental health, dental health and aged care. I could find no mention of Indigenous health at all….

    Associate Professor Gawaine Powell Davies, CEO of the UNSW Research Centre for Primary Health Care and Equity, said: “Little has been done to bring the orphans of health care, dental health and mental health, into the fold, and little to reduce our dependence on hospital care. If, as I understand, the Commonwealth will no longer fund 100% of primary health care, this may leave us with the current system of split funding and accountability which has hamstrung this sector for so long.”…

    And still, we hear not even a mention of what remote health expert, Associate Professor David Atkinson, calls the “elephant in the room”….

    “Private health insurance subsidies, all completely unaccountable, are why the Commonwealth is unable to fund its share of public hospitals,” he said. “Vast subsidies to private health insurance are a major part of the cause of health inequality in Australia and without reform of the private health insurance rebate, public health care for the majority of Australians will suffer.”…

    http://media.crikey.com.au/dm/newsletter/dailymail_46a52feb8de4f77147d1854c29f7945c.html?source=cmailer#article_9349

  40. …taking a really hard look to make sure that there aren’t people currently incentivised to be on disability pensions who really would be much better off going back to work, even if it is only part-time or less rigorous work.

    Now we know where Howard’s terrible and failed policy on this front came from, a business lobby, no surprise, a cheap and captured labour force.

  41. The COAG agreement is particularly thin in the critical areas of mental health, dental health and aged care. I could find no mention of Indigenous health at all….

    Well Cu they certainly weren’t listening to anything the PM said that’s for sure because she mentioned all these areas and others several times and especially indigenous health that will come under the “Closing the Gap” program that is one of the five highest priorities for COAG. Julia was very clear on this.

    She was also clear that it will be the Federal government that will take responsibility and be fully accountable for primary care ensuring that critical beds in hospitals aren’t taken up by aged care and mental patients.

    Julia also said very clearly that the job of this meeting was not to have a massive document with all the details nutted out at the end of it, that job was for the experts, health departments both Federal and State and the interested health groups, that includes those now complaining they didn’t get an instant fix all solution from an eight hour meeting amongst non-experts in health.

    They can’t even wait until the detail has been nutted and which they will most likely be a part of before putting the boot in.

  42. Which they refuse to hire.

    Amendment:

    Which they refused to hire unless the tax payers gave them huge amounts of subsidised wages and conditions to hire them.

  43. Howard’s demonisation of people on the disability pension wasn’t even remotely amusing. Even with the incentives for businesses listed in the link below placement of people with disabilities still becomes a difficulty with businesses often refusing to allow more flexibility in arrangements. Government schemes are available but businesses are still the reluctant party.

    http://www.bec.org.au/syndication/3066.htm

  44. “Private health insurance subsidies, all completely unaccountable, are why the Commonwealth is unable to fund its share of public hospitals,” he said. “Vast subsidies to private health insurance are a major part of the cause of health inequality in Australia and without reform of the private health insurance rebate, public health care for the majority of Australians will suffer.”…

    Thnx for the quote & link to Crikey CU.

    Indeed…there is a helluva lot of scrutiny on public hospitals…

    but why not private healthcare subsidies?

    and how transparent is the private system?

    are they being held to account for stuff-ups & overcharging etc.?

    N’

  45. Barry O’Farrell has stated he will derail the Gillard health reform when he wins government in NSW.

    The evening Sydney NSW is crowing “our” opposition leader will derail Gillard’s health reforms.

    Also the media are lining up to can the deal and not satisfied with that are appearing everywhere like the Drum to put down just about every Labor policy around at the moment.

    This is just a taste of what’s going to happen at the next election and it won’t be pretty and is actually a very worrying thing.

  46. …taking a really hard look to make sure that there aren’t people currently incentivised to be on disability pensions who really would be much better off going back to work, even if it is only part-time or less rigorous work.

    So they can lose their disability pension, or be forced onto the dole.

    As a matter of interest Steve Fielding will back the flood levy after a $500m deal for flood victims in Victoria. Amazing what a little cash will do. Is he channeling Brian Harradine?

  47. Barry O’Farrell is making mistakes.

    The other day he made clear his feelings about unions.

    Now this macho posturing over the health reform agreement.

    I know people in Sydney & other regions of NSW who tend to vote Indie &/or Green…and voted for Labor previously…but were so disgusted w/ NSW Labor politics they decided they might vote Liberal this one time to wake up the NSW ALP.

    I reckon they’re now rethinking that.

    O’Farrell is acting just like an Abbott old guard Liberal WRECKER…

    and THREAT MASTER.

    N’

  48. Why doesn’t it surprise me.

    The ABC Drum putting the boot into Gillard and the Labor government.

    Wooden, nobody can emphasise with them, they have no vision and do nothing, etc.

  49. Another success story being aired on South Coast NSW WIN News.

    The first class of AFP specialist airport security graduates has just passed out. These are in response to an audit the Labor government undertook in 2009 and have specialist training and powers.

    Howard for all his chest thumping and posturing on security was a massive failure in practical on the ground measures. One of his greatest security failures was airport security where overseas experts said under the Howard government the security was substandard and not up to world’s best practice, but you hardly read about that in the media.

    Labor have now fixed yet another of Howard’s long line of failings but of course the media won’t either list Howard’s massive failings nor fairly report the Labor government’s fixing of them.

  50. Wooden, nobody can emphasise with them, they have no vision and do nothing, etc.

    And criticise everything the government is doing, ME. Amazing the amount of things this “do nothing” government is doing!

  51. Yet jane there is a deliberate campaign to smother that and to negatively report on failure for policies or programs that can’t be smothered.

    Nas goes on about the government needing to get out and sell their successes but they haven’t got a hope of doing that and The Drum illustrates why.

  52. Meant to add re: SKY AGENDA:

    I liked the way PM Julia Gillard pointed out how Abbott rushed to be negative before anything was signed…

    and his poor history as Health Minister.

    Nice delivery on her part. Not wooden or bitchy sounding. A pleasant smile as she slapped Abbott. Big cheeky eyes. Luved it.

    Abbott did not deliver on nurses & doctors…in fact, the opposite. He should be crucified for his negabore comments criticising this.

    Dutton’s just his negabore message boy delivering the same old wrecker stuff.

    N’

  53. “Nas goes on about the government needing to get out and sell their successes but they haven’t got a hope of doing that and The Drum illustrates why.”

    Mobius, you keep saying that…but never concede defeat.

    Once you do that you’ve given up.

    My wife luvs the idea of making the government program web sites more inventive, more detailed, connected to Facebook etc…

    feeding alternative media like Obama did…

    Using own camera crews to grab visits to sites of accomplishment to get message out.

    I frankly cannot understand why you are being so negative about us who are trying to make a change.

    If I had conceded defeat when teachers told me I was getting students that would never listen, behave, cooperate…and not thought inventively, adapted to situations using imaginative & alternative methods, then I woulda never broken thru to those kids. I had plenty get off the streets, off crime, and get interested in learning & their future.

    Never give in Mobius. Never say never. Adapt to yer circumstances.

    N’

  54. Obano found a way to get to the grass-roots. Labor can do it a well. They have to by pass the MSM. Getup is an example. Your Rights at Work was another sucessful site.

    It needs to begin now, not wait till election time.

    Nasking is correct, it is can do, not cannot.

  55. “JULIA Gillard tonight ended a tortuous ”

    Tortuous, how do they know, they were not in the room. Tortuous for whom?

  56. Good to see big gun Bruce Hawker out there selling the messages. Did well.

    Fancy Morris farting on about “Gillard tickling the state premiers tummies & just handing over the money”.

    His boss Howard was renowned for handing out the goodies.

    As Hawker said: “The people aren’t gonna be upset about an increase in healthcare/hospitals spending” (somethin’ like that).

    If you can fund steam trains to nowhere & young poor kids having babies…you can fund the places where those younguns have the babies. Ensuring their safe delivery & health of mother & baby.

    Ensuring their grandparents get fast, effective, expert care in their public hospitals…so they live to see the baby.

    And fancy Morris calling premiers dwarfs…I take it he sees the Lib premiers as dwarfs to his giants Abbott & Howard. Yea right. 🙂

    N’

  57. YESSS…brilliant interview by Gillard on 7:30 Report.

    That’s the Julia we know & respect.

    Great concrete examples…diabetes etc. re: primary care.

    She didn’t get fazed, looked at ease, determined to get messages out. Bloody articulate.

    Top stuff.

    More details about “Medicare Locals” the better.

    N’

  58. “it is can do, not cannot.”

    CU,
    luv it.

    If the Dems & Obama’s team could get the message out in 06 & 08 regardless of the Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, ABC news, New York Post, repug blog & think tank wall…

    then this government can too.

    Great start today. Go Julia and team!!!

    N’

  59. They have to by pass the MSM. Getup is an example. Your Rights at Work was another sucessful site.

    Problem.

    They are the government they cannot use taxpayers money to do anything like that, and rightly so. If they go on a ad campaign as Howard did the media and opposition would have a field day ripping them apart and the public wouldn’t forgive it.

    It’s easy saying things like never give up, which I’m sure Labor isn’t, and also saying they must sell their message but how? So far I have not heard any real concrete methods for them getting past a hostile MSM that will make bad light of anything they do and who can repeat the negative message almost ad infinitum, something a political party cannot do.

    If a party like the US Democrat party with all its resources and some sympathetic media can’t break through the Murdoch media run agenda and the left can’t break through in places like Germany, Sweden and other Euro countries without even looking at the Berlusconi dominated media in Italy and what he gets away with hobbling the opposition.

    The Labor government has to allow its policies and programs speak for it even though they will be ripped apart and every little slip and error made into mountains with failure being shouted across every medium possible as often as possible and for as long as possible.

  60. “If a party like the US Democrat party with all its resources and some sympathetic media can’t break through the Murdoch media run agenda”

    What are you talking about?

    They did in 06…in 08…even w/ the healthcare & Uni funding bills that got passed. Gays in the military. And plenty more.

    Sure, this time the Repugs took back the house w/ the help of the Tea Party…but that shift is not unusual in American politics.

    And the Senate was not taken…and key Tea Partiers lost due to the fightback, partially by way of alternative media.

    We did it here in 07. We did here in QLD. In S.A. In Tasmania.

    We’ll do it again.

    —————————————–

    Message to the ABC:

    If Sky News Agenda can put up the Essential Poll results…why not you?

    Granted, Agenda w/ Spears did not put up the graphics showing the Abbott popularity plunge after they showed Gillard’s figures…but it was at least an attempt at balance.

    Haven’t seen any news on the Essential Poll on ABC TV yet.

    Did I miss something?

    N’

  61. I’m confused, who cares about the polls now?

    The election is two years away and the independents are not going to cross the floor because they would give away all their power.

    John Howard was always behind in the polls and always ended up winning (till his last election).

    So what’s the point?

  62. “So far I have not heard any real concrete methods for them getting past a hostile MSM that will make bad light of anything they do and who can repeat the negative message almost ad infinitum”

    I’m seeing balanced moments…and opportunities for the government. Such as the 7:30 Report tonite. A few journos out there.

    Not every single show, radio jock & journo is a right-winger &/or lacking balance.

    Anyway, if we do come up w/ other ideas we’re better to send them straight to the relevant government people/department…so the Coalition can’t nick ’em.

    I’m outa here for a couple days…meant to take a break startin’ Friday…but what w/ the Abbott screw-ups, Liberal internal probs, Egypt, COAG, today’s polls…never got a chance.

    Interesting time tho.

    Thnx for the contributions all.

    And remember Mobius, I put up yer comment on the post above ’cause you are articulate, research well…take it to the Coalition…and sometimes see the positives…ways forward.

    🙂

    Cheers…til later. (Migs has created an open thread people. Enjoy.)
    N’

  63. Agreed, Nasking, that the PM was brilliant tonight particularly the way she ignored every attempt by Ewart to sidetrack her or to bring in negative connotations. Smiling, informative, calm. Made Ewart look like a picky dill, straining to win a point rather than a journalist getting important information for the public. Doesn’t she know how to address the Prime Minister appropriately? Hasn’t she been taught proper?

    I rushed to send her congratulations and decided to send her Valentine Greetings expresssing my admiration. I hope she likes my pome for her.

    She deserves every bit of encouragement we can give her – did you see the punishing travel and speaking schedule she has had over the past few days?

    I liked her generous acknowledgement of Rudd’s work. He too was very good on Lateline. Also very smooth at diverting the negative and divisive questions. Looks like he’s recovered from that ghastly fall from grace and power. Show’s he’s basically healthy and sane. Able to be positive about the health package Julia’s achieved too.

    If only we could see more of them. Those interviews tonight demonstrated what a good team Julia and he can be again. They’re both professionals. They just don’t get the exposure they deserve. Nor do others in the government.

  64. Bobalot and Nas’, also something to be learned here for Labor. We have had Labor way ahead and almost losing but Howard behind in the polls and winning.

    Why? Because finally the public worked out two things – that Howard couldn’t be trusted to keep his promises, that his policies were heading in one direction and that was for the benefit of the wealthy…in spite of Howard’s rhetoric about ‘aspirationals’ that WorkChoices and the stripping of workers’ rights revealed that he Howard couldn’t be trusted.

    And so what we now have is the Liberals in opposition and their MAIN THEME is..yes you have it, it’s Trust. And this is the reason that Labor almost lost. Over and over it was said, You can’t trust Labor to… (manage the economy, build school halls, flood levy etc etc). And this is the reason for Abbott’s negative ongoing campaign, trust.

    Everything that the Liberals have done since Rudd came into power has been for one reason only and that is to undermine the trust that the public have, for Rudd that his persona was a false one. Notice how when recently Rudd was receiving excellent publicity when he was helping/discussing the floods in Brisbane that the Libs and the MSM quickly tried to undermine this with another ‘temper’ story.

    For Gillard they’ve tried the weak woman thing (puppet, faceless men) which undermines people’s ‘trust’ that she’s up to the job of being Australia’s PM.

    Conclusion: Labor has every chance of winning the next election but the only way that they can do this is to provide ‘proof’ that they can be ‘trusted’. It’s not going to be easy to change people’s perceptions as Abbott and the Liberals plus the MSM will be working hard to undermine this.

  65. “For Gillard they’ve tried the weak woman thing (puppet, faceless men) which undermines people’s ‘trust’ that she’s up to the job of being Australia’s PM. ”

    Mr. Abbott’s problem is that the PM is not a puppet or weak.

    His main problem is that she knows what he is capable of and knows him well. The PM does not fear him, and never will. Fear and bullying is the only weapon he knows how to use.

    Mr. Abbott’s problem is that and many others under estimate the PM.

    I know I am looking through my rose coloured glasses but I like what I see. If we do not want Mr. Abbott, we need to have faith in Labor to deliver.

    The reality is that there is no reason why they should fail us. The Opposition’s biggest weapon at this time is our lack of belief in ourselves.

    It is not as important what the MSM thinks, it is important what we think.

    Maybe the alternate to this so fightening, that there should be a massive re-joining of the Labor Party, and they should welcome us with open arms.

    No matter how badly Labor performs, it is not as frightening as having Mr. Abbott in power.

  66. CU, exactly Gillard is not weak and Abbott knows this having been her opposite number in the Health portfolio. Gillard would have also been watching Abbott very closely when he was Workplace Relations Minister.

    Agreed faith in Labor but it needs to be backed up by factual information in order to confirm that faith. And this is exactly why as others on this blog have said, the Gillard government needs to advertise its achievements. As has been proven time and again we can’t rely on just snippets of information filtering through via less than concerned journalists.

  67. One fact to remember is that you can only call wolf so often before people cease to listen. Once they are turned off, they are slow to trust again.

  68. “government needs to advertise its achievements.”

    And any that believe need to get the bush telegraph working. This is hard when most, in spite of what the MSM are trying to convey are turned off to politics, or at least in the small arena I move in.

    It is not the committed, noisy and sometimes I think brain dead on the sites that are anti Labor we need to address. These will never change. It is the what I believe a large silent majority we need to influence.

    We are more likely to influence these by talking about what affects them, not politics.

    We need to talk about the good experiences we have in our hospitals, schools and transport etc. Believe it or not, more have good experiences than those who have bad.

  69. Don’t get me wrong but what Gillard and Swan are doing in going onto shows like the 7:30 Report and Lateline is great and what I advocate, but that’s all they can do in the current media climate and even then more time and preference is given to the opposition on these shows along with them never being challenged on the bullshit they come out with. On the other hand the government has to continually fight to get the facts and information out during every interview as they are ambushed and trivialised.

    A very small illustration of what the government is up against that is going on 24/7 across all media. The Courier Mail ran a small online article buried down in their news page. It was about Telstra announcing their soon to be implemented 4G that is supposed to be world beating and ahead of just about everyone else. As several posters remark this is not true and not true 4G. What Telstra is proposing, has been around for a little while.

    In amongst the few good responses on the technical and Telstra propaganda aspects of this announcement are a flood of mostly one sentence posts bashing the NBN and Labor as being wasteful and useless. The posts are ignorant and wrong in detail yet they make up the vast majority of the responses with the one or two lucid posts being drowned out by this nonsense.

    That is going on across the online media anywhere responses to articles are allowed.

    The only way that can be countered is for an army of Labor supporters to mount a larger campaign but that takes considerable organisation, time, money and manpower to accomplish. Something the RWDBs have in abundance but the left cannot hope to achieve.

    The trouble also becomes, which is what the climate proponents found out, that to counter the baseless nonsense and fallacious one sentence gorm being spewed out in great abundance requires considerable detail and up to several paragraphs that immediately loses the reader. The RWDB propagandists know this as it has been such a successful tactic in the AGW debate and against the Democrats in the US.

    It’s the tactic Abbott uses where he comes out with nothing more than a three word slogan and to counter it Gillard has to give the facts and information that is lost in the telling. The RWDB flood only has to repeat the slogan or short message over and over across as many media outlets as possible, deliberately drowning out and flooding anything that attempts to give the facts and you have it ingrained that the government is incompetent, wasteful etc. and the case of the Courier Mail on a Telstra article not related to the government the NBN is crud and already superseded by superior technology, so the government is wasteful, all with a flood of simple one sentence posts.

  70. Further on this RWDB tactic.

    It can easily be seen on several blogs listed in the Blogroll where the moment a post is made in supporting the government or giving facts there is a flood of RWDB mostly one or two sentence posts that push the explanatory post down the list. Often one RWDB will post many times in a row or several will alternate with a string of posts, all relatively short and all conveying the same negative message bashing the government and usually aping an opposition talking point.

    You can only overcome that by having many posters writing a string of replies with facts and info, something that takes considerable time and resources to do, and even then the message can be lost in the flood of negative one liners that get thrown back.

  71. Adrian, further to the government getting its message out, I listened to Conraoy talking to bolt the other day, and he did very well. Not only exposing bolts total lack of comprehension of the subject, but maintaining his composure all the way through against some of the most baseless and pointless questioning I have heard on this subject.

    [audio src="http://podcasts.mrn.com.au.s3.amazonaws.com/steveprice/20110214-sp2-boltconroy.mp3" /]

    if you are brave enough.

    They need to do this a lot to counter the mis-information being peddled in the MSM like that I just mentioned on the Media II thread. Of course, they shouldn’t NEED to do this, but it appears that they must.

  72. Nas, Min & ME, reading all your excellent comments above, one thing has struck me. As ME points out rather depressingly, every time the government gets a little traction, it’s drowned out with multiple negative one liners from the RWDBs, resulting in us having to post long rebuttals.

    This is a mistake, I have now concluded. To counter this garbage we have to resort to similar tactics, one of which, off the top of my head, would read: you can trust Tony Abbott
    never to tell the truth
    constantly lie
    be lazy and unprepared and blame others
    look after the big end of town, bash the rest and lie about it
    bully dying people-Bernie Banton and lie about them
    stuff up the hospital system and lie about it
    try and stop Australians from having the best internet technology available and lie about it
    divert funds from disaster victims into his own pockets and lie about it
    consistently blame other people for his character flaws.

    And so on and so forth. You don’t have to have proof, just keep saying it, just like they do.

  73. Tom R that is what I advocate and something Labor is very good at going back to when Rudd was opposition leader. Given a chance and equal forum like a halfway fair interview most Labor pollies are calm, lucid, stick to the point no matter the attempt for the gotcha and they are mostly factual though they still do what all pollies do and often will not directly answer a hard or uncomfortable question.

    They must continue this and it is what they are doing as shown by Gillard’s and Swan’s performances lately. Garrett, Wong for all her solemnity and most others in the team handle the interview and confrontation well, whereas the opposition often lose it, interrupt and obfuscate if they are pushed to go off their simplistic message.

    jane I think you are right. Trying to respond with lucid posts, which you must do if you want to convey facts and information, depending on the forum or circumstance, mostly doesn’t work against the current RWDB flooding tactic. Responding with short one sentence facts about opposition and Abbott failings, of which there are so many, is the way to go. If you can get enough momentum and mass up in doing this then the RWDB flooding is nullified and the message becomes one of Abbott failures and shortcomings.

  74. ME, I guess what I meant in my befuddled way above is to use their tactics against them, passive resistance, if you will and nothing enrages and causes substantial frothing at the mouth as that.

    Better still, they have to counter our one liner with some lucid arguments backed up with facts; barren ground if you’re a RWDB.

    I reckon you’re also more likely to be published if you make comments short and sharp.

    I taught my oldest son to use a similar tactic against one of his peers who consistently bullied and ridiculed him-he repeated everything the bully said changing the name to the bully’s when indicated.

    It drove the little bugger mad, made him the butt of his own tactics and robbed him of any traction. Problem solved in less than a week!

  75. ‘I reckon you’re also more likely to be published if you make comments short and sharp.’

    Too true jane, That was I think Rudds biggest problem. Most of what he said made complete sense, if you could decipher the content through the manager speak he used so often. I still think his essay on the GFC was one of the best I have read about that subject

    Unfortunately, when it is complex, the MSM are too likely to misrepresent it in their dumbing down process.

  76. yes, they did, but he did get his message across better. He was on a trip to nowhere with the media Min, they had all jumped on the bash Rudd wagon, much the same way they coralled them around yabot last week.

  77. Min. There in lay the problem with Rudd and though I don’t agree with it I understand why Labor dumped him.

    For some reason that is unfathomable to me the media, even centre or left leaning, had it in for Rudd from the moment he became the Labor leader, and that only got worse when he won government and his popularity grew.

    He was on a lose/lose no matter what he did or said or how he did it or said it. With Rudd there was no satisfying the media even when he did as they asked or requested of him, then it was backing down and being weak. If he stood up to them then he was all spin and hard headed.

    Yet if it had been Howard who had won in 2007and said and did the same things, or as he always did, outright lied and obfuscated, even if he completely stuffed up the GFC and sent us into recession with the loss of over 200,000 jobs, the media would not have been as harsh as they were on Rudd.

    And the thing is to this day they still have goes at Rudd and lambaste him at every turn, even Crikey commentators like Keane and Farmer or reporters like Crabb and Mega who you would expect to be more balanced, hoe into Rudd.

    Whatever Rudd did to the media has certainly earned him their lifetime scorn award.

  78. Sharp, short and positive.

    Do not point out the oppositions negativity.

    This will only allow others to manipulate what you have said and the point you are making will be lost.

  79. ‘Sharp, short and positive.’

    Exactly CU. If they start playing the oppositions (and by default, the oo’s) game, they will be crusified for it. Keep on message. This is why I thought Conroys handling of bolt was exceptional. He stayed on message, and avoided the obvious attacks to bolts stupidity, which would have just angered the rusted ons.

  80. If Rudd can get up and start fighting again I don’t see why we can’t do our little bit for him and Julia and keep slogging away out here in the blogosphere. Jane, I agree with you about the simple one liners, but if you can turn them into positives as Catching Up suggests, that’s more in line with what Gillard, Rudd, Swan, Smith et alia are trying to do. If you respond like with like to Abbott and Co. you just ratchet up the pitch of negativity. That’s what he wants, a bloodbath, cos he’s ruthless enough to keep dishing it out. We aren’t.

    I think we should bag Abbott and Co when the opportunity’s there, but doing it with a constructive comment, a query on the validity of wilder allegations of waste or a clever line which shows how Julia and the team are working away and achieving things. I always vote on any on-line polls I see, in passing, just to add a bit more weight to our side which is so often outnumbered by the astro-turfing legions on the Right. Doesn’t change things hugely but I’ve put in my two bits worth.

    Jane, I think we do need (for our own sanity) to have proof about things like the disability pensioners. There must be lots of wonderful stories that Min and her daughter can tell us to counter Abbott’s despicable lines on that. I worked for several years creating jobs for the long term disadvantaged unemployed, and one of their biggest problems was actually getting a job, overcoming the prejudice generated by people like Abbott and his cheer squad.

  81. Conroy stayed on message and did not take himself seriously. Conroy has a better sense of humour that I would have imagined. Mr. Conroy is a much better politician than I gave him credit for in the beginning.

    I believe that there is a subtle change among many of the better journalist. Maybe they do not like reading sites like this one condemning them.

  82. “outnumbered by the astro-turfing legions on the Right.”

    patriciawa

    I would not be too worried about the astro-turfers. What you get is numerous comments saying the same thing, differing in a few words they use. What they accomplish is outweighed by being very boring, I believe turning most off.

    We know that the number of comments do not represent the majority of voters, only a few very desperate people. I believe positive comments will smother them, even if they are few in numbers.

    I think but might be wrong, the Obama success was reaching the grass-roots and getting them to use their keyboards, not telling them what to say. If this is possible in the Middle East, I am sure we can do the same in this country.

  83. What they accomplish is outweighed by being very boring, I believe turning most off.

    It’s often not about their message, that’s unimportant, but it’s to drown the positive message posted by someone so they drop off or shift way down the view page. It’s also about numbers where it doesn’t matter that one lucid positive post with facts is posted because dozens of idiotic similar negative posts counter it. Your one against our 20.

    How often on the Drum, Stump etc. do you find yourself having to scroll through dozens of similar meaningless negative and abusive replies just to find a sensible discussion thread that always gets broken up by lots of the meaningless guff.

    It’s all about dominating the web page real estate just as the predominate right wing MSM is all about dominating the media real estate with their Labor government bashing and negativity. The content is more or less meaningless and doesn’t have to be factual, in fact better if it isn’t as fact take time to research and verify, but it’s all about quantity, lots of it and often, even repeating the same negativity over and over as that also doesn’t take up much resources and costs little to do.

  84. Rudd is an asset and big time for the Gillard government, with him the government has a world class Foreign Minister who takes complete control of any foreign affairs issue, especially with Abbott’s representative being J.Bishop.

    But of course the Libs can’t offload Bishop..or will they? This year we’ll know.

  85. Want to see the wingnut zombie trolls in action.

    Read Rex’s comment in this good piece on why wireless cannot replace the NBN.: Telstra’s 4G wireless cannot replace the NBN

    Note the excellent technical replies that explain the shortcomings of wireless and why the NBN is necessary, all factual and correct, but of course that does not stop the WZTs (wazits) from posting lots of utter nonsense without any evidence or technical data to back it up.

    I saw much the same in a Fin article but in that case the wazits flooded the responses and drowned out the technical small handful of technical information responses.

  86. ME, thanks for the link. It was very gratifying to see Rex being told to put up his/her technological argument that wireless is better than NBN or (to paraphrase) shut up, after trotting out the usual wingnut response “what a load of rot.”

    I actually had a similar disagreement a few days ago, when I was told that the NBN is obsolete technology and wireless is the duck’s guts. And that the government should cancel NBN and use the money for post-flood rebuilding. Usual sun revolves around the earth wingnut nonsense.

    I’m happy to say I shot him down in flames. And felt quite pleased that I’ve actually absorbed some of the information I’ve been reading on blogs and in links provided here.

  87. Good on you jane. That’s exactly what we have to continually attempt to do to counter the wingnuttery.

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