SPINsiders

While perusing the blogs listed on Australian Blog Sites I came across a brilliant summary of Tony Abbott’s appearance on Insiders yesterday, which I found on Ash’s Machiavellian Bloggery and titled The King of Spin.  Ash writes:

Tony Abbott made a guest appearance on INSIDERS today. The man has been absent from the interview circuit for some time letting his dogs of war take to the airwaves.  But this time, the fuhrer himself made the speeches.

Barry Cassidy began the interview with a question about the last session of parliament. Abbott responded by saying that the ALP do not look like a government, but an alternative opposition. Barry asked him if the governments attack on him was getting to him. He asked Barry if he looked hurt. Barry added that he did say that the attack has been overly personal. And once more Abbott claimed that the Gillard government is acting like an opposition.

“She is making attacks on the opposition that are more characteristically the attacks the opposition makes on the government”.

TRANSLATION : When in opposition, you can use personal attacks. Governments are not allowed to do this apparently.

The conversation moved on to the tag of wrecker. Abbott claimed that if the government is using that tag, then obviously what he is doing is working. Problem though Tony is you really haven’t wrecked anything. You have not been effective if you had to change your tactics to in response to the latest polls. By the way, does this make you poll driven now Tony?

Barry then asked him but if you say something often enough and Abbott jumped in to show us what a clever little Rhodes Scholar he is and called it the Goebbels technique.  He said if you keep repeating the big lie, people eventually believe it.

Ash has put together a great blog which I highly recommend visiting.  Be prepared for a bit of a chuckle too.

I see Abbott’s appearance on SPINsiders as an announcement that we can expect to see a lot more of him in the New Year.  The Tony Abbott media extravaganza will be under way as soon as Rupert calls all his troops together.  Next year will seem like an election year.  In my opinion the media in this country will do their best to see that one is called.

148 comments on “SPINsiders

  1. Migs, the media may indeed rally the troops to try to effect the ‘public outrage’ thing and demand an election, however the Independents are a canny bunch and to my way of thinking the more the MSM bleats the more they will dig their heals in. We saw this prior to the indies backing Labor.

    From memory it was Windsor who when asked a question responded that it didn’t matter what the MSM said or did, that he would make up his own mind thank you very much. The inference was that he had seen it all before from the media. Plus of course the indies have absolutely no intention of giving up their power so early in the piece.

  2. “He said if you keep repeating the big lie, people eventually believe it.”

    That just about sums it up for Tony, keep repeating the lies and the mug-punters will eventually believe us, but it would be like the dog that chased the car “now I have it WTF do I do with it”. My mother is a rusted on Liberal always has been always will be, but she said just before the election “There is now way in hell I will I ever vote for that man he is just too dangerous and too stupid.”

    What I am curious about is how the opposition will spin out the latest wikileaks on Rudd advising Clinton over China, I think what will grate them the most is that the Whitehouse has sought Rudd’s advise.

  3. Morning, Miglo. Wish I’d read Ash before I wrote this! Anyway I thought it night be relevant here. Perhaps Tony might try longer words in his slogans – or use more than three or four!

    Abbott,, Man Of Many Parts, And Slogans Too!

    Newspoll has Abbott in a hole
    Compared with Gillard in her role.
    His PR team sometimes despair,
    They weep and wail and tear their hair.
    Are the public confused they ask,
    Facing a Herculean task,
    Reshaping the information
    About this man who’ll – ‘Save The Nation!’
    Please don’t think these guys are bogans
    Just because they think in slogans.
    You try changing – ‘He loves to surf!’
    To – ‘He is a great friend of the earth!’
    Can you avoid that – ‘Loves his guns!’
    Focus instead on – ‘This guy runs!’
    They’ll film him on his racing bike,
    Carrying mail to foil a postie strike.
    Or even with his fireman’s axe.
    ‘Here’s the man to cut Labor’s tax!’
    Or is that trite, a bit old hat,
    Anyway it’s too wet this year for that.
    Now, there’s a thought! With all this rain
    He can take off his shirt again!
    The idea of – ‘Abbott, Iron Man!’
    Reluctantly they’ve had to ban.
    ‘Cos when mention of that is made, he
    Hates to hear – ‘Gillard, Iron Lady!’
    Still promoting the ‘ Great Go-getter!’
    They’ll make much of that, you betcha!
    Whatever they decide he’ll be,
    He’ll go along with it, you’ll see.
    He’ll ‘run’ for the next election
    From a fresh, ‘new direction.’
    They’ll find another catchy phrase
    For him to say, or sing his praise.
    Watch! Abbott, with PROs like these,
    Could use longer words like – ‘Kinder, Gentler Policies!’

  4. Interesting link, Damien. I wonder if any of the journalists at The Australian have bothered to consider the facts.

    It bewilders me that a media organisation would be so opposed to faster broadband. I’m truly stumped.

  5. I love the Keating clip from the link. One thing about Keating, he certain knows how to cut through to the basics…that basically Abbott has ‘no thought out position’.

  6. Tony Abbott from Battlelines:

    Although China has had to become less repressive to accommodate more economic freedom, the long term ability of what’s still a communist government to maintain legitimacy and satisfy aspirations is far from clear. P160

    “Led by the US, most of the world would reject any attempt by China forcibly to reclaim Taiwan. In Australia’s case, this would not be choosing America over China, but democracy over dictatorship. P160

    N’

  7. Very interesting:

    Libs roll over for China’s bullies

    Laurie Oakes From: Herald Sun August 22, 2009

    JOHN Howard famously exploited the people smuggling issue in the 2001 election campaign by proclaiming: “We will decide who comes to this country.”

    In contrast, Howard’s heirs seem to believe a foreign government – a communist government at that – should be able to dictate who visits us.

    Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith knew he would offend Beijing when he granted a visa to Rebiya Kadeer – exiled leader of China’s Muslim Uighur people – to go to a film festival in Melbourne and address Canberra’s National Press Club.

    But most Australians would believe the minister did the right thing in letting her visit, despite the temper tantrums it has provoked from China’s rulers.

    Smith told Parliament: “We understand, respect and recognise freedom of speech. We value the capacity of someone to come to our country and say things, even if we do not agree.”

    Right on! The decision reflected Australia’s democratic values. Smith – backed by Kevin Rudd – refused to be bullied by Beijing into selling out on those values.

    Yet Opposition foreign affairs spokeswoman Julie Bishop is bagging him for failing “to work constructively with China regarding the visit”.

    And Liberal Party elder statesman and Amnesty International badge-wearer Philip Ruddock has declared it “a mistake” to grant the visa.

    Fortunately, another senior member of the Coalition, National Party Senate leader Barnaby Joyce, has shown more bottle and national self-respect.

    AND:

    Rudd was widely praised for the speech, but now Bishop claims it “needlessly offended China”.

    She derides his “decision to lecture China about human rights”, and says he should have made his criticisms privately at the annual dialogue set up by the Howard government.

    This gutless “roll over” approach is being advocated by the deputy leader of a party that only a few months ago was accusing Rudd of being too compliant – sycophantic, in fact – towards Beijing.

    Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull was calling the PM a “Manchurian candidate” and “a roving ambassador for the People’s Republic of China”.

    One embarrassed Liberal privately describes the Turnbull-Bishop approach as “our bipolar policy”.

    Talk to senior diplomats and they will tell you that Rudd takes a hard-eyed, realistic approach to the Chinese because he really does understand them.

    Long after Gough Whitlam’s historic 1971 visit to Beijing, ahead of president Richard Nixon, Labor politicians had a romantic view of China.

    That ended when Rudd became leader. His study of China at university and a diplomatic posting in Beijing left him with no illusions about how hard, uncompromising and determined to get their way the Chinese are. Nor did he have any illusions about their interest in human rights.

    Rudd’s university thesis – titled “Human Rights” – dealt with dissidents in China in the 1970s and the way they were treated.

    It not only analysed the dictatorial nature of the communist regime but pointed out that even in Imperial China the idea of individual rights did not exist.

    So when Australian leaders criticise human rights abuses in China they are banging their heads against a brick wall. That does not mean, however, they should ignore the issue, even though the response is predictable.

    Even Paul Keating, who prided himself on giving priority to engagement with Asia, got the cold shoulder at an official dinner in Beijing hosted by Chinese premier Li Peng.

    As Don Watson describes it in his book Recollections of a Bleeding Heart: “Li Peng suddenly rose. Keating rose. The dinner had come to an abrupt end, apparently when Keating mentioned to his host the matter of human rights.”

    Like Rudd, Howard went through a time of tension with China early in his prime ministership. His offence was to criticise Chinese military manoeuvres and missile firings near Taiwan.

    The situation was exacerbated when Howard ignored Chinese protests and held a meeting with the Dalai Lama.

    Over the next decade, though, Howard worked hard at strengthening relations with the Chinese leadership.

    Interestingly, George W. Bush’s great mate did this partly by distancing his government from some aspects of US policy towards China.

    The Howard government supported the lifting of a European embargo on arms sales to China, opposed by Washington. It backed Beijing when the US was demanding changes in China’s exchange rate policy.

    Howard also had a much softer tone on human rights abuses than the US.

    Which brings us back to Julie Bishop. It may be that, in her clumsy way, the foreign affairs spokeswoman is trying to channel Howard from Opposition.

    Her comments, though, would have gladdened the hearts of the bully boys in Beijing.

    The calm, business-as-usual approach of Rudd and Smith gave no sign the Chinese pressure was working; Bishop’s antics sent a contrary message.

    More here:

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion-old/libs-roll-over-for-chinas-bullies/story-e6frfifo-1225764997334

    He he…the Liberals have become the KOWTOWERS.

    Like Rupert Murdoch.

    Anti-Murdoch critics always cite his 1994 decision to pull BBC News from his Star TV satellite channel in China. They say the move was designed to placate the Chinese, who disliked the BBC’s critical news and documentary broadcasts.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2167031/

    Eunichs Howard & Murdoch must be OBEYED.

    As they must OBEY their masters.

    N’

  8. Damien, thanks for the link. It will be a great help in debunking the LIEberal crapaganda being pedalled at the moment.

    Perhaps Tony might try longer words in his slogans – or use more than three or four!

    Patricia, perhaps that’s his entire vocabulary! Lol.

    Migs @10.44am, facts?, the Australian?, journalists? (for want of a better word), in the same sentence?

  9. I love a statement he made a couple of days ago. He did not think it was fair that PM Gillard was attacking him personally. When it was pointed out that he was doing the same, his reply was along the line of that he was testing her mettle.

    This man is unbelievable in his double talk. Mr. Abbott’s is waiting for the business world to call for return of workchoice so he can ride to their defence. The problem is if I recall correctly, there was ever a strong support for what Mr. Howard did from these same people. Strong industrial laws make an even playing field for small business as well as large ones.

    Mr. Abbott’s biggest problem is that he believes his own spin. He really does believe that the public is stupid. Why does he live in the middle of last century? The model he is using is from Nazi Germany. His political mentor was Mr. Santamaria. His main adviser today seems to be an ousted PM from the last Coalition government. It is time he woke from his slumber and realises this is 2010 and the 21st century.

  10. I love a statement he made a couple of days ago. He did not think it was fair that PM Gillard was attacking him personally. When it was pointed out that he was doing the same, his reply was along the line of that he was testing her mettle.

    CU, that was gold.

    On a darker side, he could really be saying: “She’s a woman so I need proof she’s got the balls for the job”.

  11. Also in that interview with Laurie Oaks, Oaks cornered him on his double standards to which Abbott hedged it was apparently OK for oppositions to engage in personal attacks, that was their job, but not for governments to engage in them, that was bad form.

    Abbott then dodged around the line that in that case he wouldn’t condone or engage in personal attacks if he was in government.

    Pigs will fly long before Abbott keeps his word on anything (and he admitted again it was OK to tell big lies) and doesn’t engage in personal attacks.

  12. Hi everyone,
    Thanks to Damien for the NBN link. Looks like the MSM are looking “over there” concerning the NBN, they just don’t want to know, do they? I watched Spinsiders yesterday and didn’t know whether to laugh or not when Abbott talked of using Goebbels methods. That says it all really.
    Min, I really like Tony Windsor, he’s his own man and nobody’s fool.

    I came across this on Twitter last night

    http://wlcentral.org/node/480
    about Julian Assange, 2010/12/04
    a letter from the NSW Supreme Court Soliciitor Peter Kemp:
    Letter to Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard

    Given the comments from Govt. about what to do with Assange, cancel his passport etc. there is today a quite different line on ABC, “Door open for Assange to come home”.
    Patricia, as usual entertains us and gives food for thought with every line.
    Nasking, I won’t be reading Battlelines but it looks as if
    Abbott doesn’t know his a### from his elbow !!!

  13. Pip, did you read this over at our MEDIA WATCH thread?:

    Re: Fox News & Glen Beck:

    He (Beck) went on to say that the WikiLeaks scandals were part of an effort to create a “perfect storm” of chaos, and compared the organization to Al Qaeda. Both, he said, are trying to take down America by “a thousand cuts.”

    I take it then if Assange is now considered a terrorist and head of a terrorist organisation it will mean that the CIA, American forces & their allies will be searchin’ for him…

    but be unable to catch him for 9+ years…

    like Osama Bin Laden?

    🙂

    N’

  14. Migs & CU, I think the question is not whether Julia has the cojones for the job, but where does smuggles hide his?

    I got an email from the PM today thanking me for my email congratulating her for getting the job.

    I am amazed at the savagery of the personal attacks against her. Criticise her by all means for her policies, but the vitriol being sprayed around by the born-to-rule mob is beyond the pale.

    I guess it’s because the more she settles into her role as PM, the more inadequate and wanting the Smuggles Set is by comparison. Sign of desperation, I suppose.

    “Mother,” said Rose “The Smuggles Set’s on the nose.
    “The blood-nut in power makes them look like a shower.
    “The longer she’s there, the more they go spare.
    “Bereft of ideas, they resort to sour sneers,
    “Which she bats aside as she lengthens her stride
    “And leaves them concussed in a great cloud of dust.”

  15. Also in that interview with Laurie Oaks, Oaks cornered him on his double standards to which Abbott hedged it was apparently OK for oppositions to engage in personal attacks, that was their job, but not for governments to engage in them, that was bad form.

    Mobius, the man must be a complete fool or takes us for fools. Wasn’t he Howard’s nastiest and busiest attack dog when in government?

    I’m utterly amazed at this man’s double standards.

  16. Wasn’t he Howard’s nastiest and busiest attack dog when in government?

    Yes and one Julia Gillard in opposition had his measure every single time. The wingnuts and news media like to forget that fact and the amount of times Gillard wiped the parliament floor with him or so easily blunted his attacks.

    It’s similar to the way they attempted to make out Costello was clever and witty in parliament, some even stating superior to Keating, but that was all fantasy land crap. Abbott is no more clever and an attack dog than http://ihasahotdog.wordpress.com/files/2008/04/cute-puppy-pictures-white-teddy-bear.jpg

    What Julia Gillard does to attack dogs: http://deltafoxtrot.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/cute-puppy-pictures-baby-human-eats-baby-dogs1.jpg

  17. Maybe we should not be surprised that Mr. Abbott believes that if you say something often enough, the public comes to believe the spin.

    Is not that this what the Coalition has been doing for a couple of decades. We have the doctrine of only having surpluses budgets. Then there is the myth that only the Coalition is capable of managing an economy. It was also pushed that only under the Coalition, can interest rates be low. Only the Coalition is capable of looking after families. The biggest spin that was created under the Coalition was one of fear of what would happen if Labor were elected. The greatest myth of all is that the Coalition is for small government and low taxes.

    The fantasy worlds they created with their slogans, repeated repeatedly is far from the reality they created while in power.

    Yes, the Goebbels technique does appear to work, but I do wonder why Mr. Abbott would tell the world this is what he is doing. A canny politician would have run a mile from that suggestion.

    By the way, PM Gillard does not have to test Mr. Abbott’s mettle. She already found out he has none.

  18. Yes, the Goebbels technique does appear to work, but I do wonder why Mr. Abbott would tell the world this is what he is doing. A canny politician would have run a mile from that suggestion.

    On Insiders Abbott accussed Labor of using the Goebbels’ technique of “If you repeat a lie enuff it becomes the truth…”

    The Murdoch empire & Abbott are addicts of this style…pot kettle I reckon.

    N’

  19. Cardinal Abbott (reckon he’d make a perfect one the way he was sittin’ on Insiders…his haircut…his preaching…his hypocrisy…conservative views on sex, reproduction & women) stated on Insiders he thought that the Labor party had “lost their soul”.

    I didn’t realise political parties had souls.

    He loves the religious references.

    N’

  20. Thanks for that NBN link, Damien. Really helped me get across a lot of the pros (and the usual cons the Opposition throws up!)

  21. Nasking, I recently made a note of a quote form somewhere and then somehow losts its source, but you’ve just reminded me of it. You may even know where it comes from

    “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”

  22. Thought Rudd did well in his recent chat to the press:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/06/3086048.htm?section=justin

    I hear Alexander Downer will be on Sky News this arvo…just a reminder:

    Setting the Vision amongst a Sea of
    Troubles: March–December 1996

    When the Howard Government took office on 11 March 1996 it entered a regional political maelstrom.

    A serious diplomatic crisis between China and
    Taiwan had escalated with the deployment of two US aircraft carrier groups to the region. The crisis appeared reminiscent of a ‘perfect storm’: a novice
    Australian Government thrown unwittingly into one of the region’s most serious strategic crisis since the Tiananmen Square uprising between April and June
    1989.

    In an unprecedented step, Downer declared unequivocal support for the US forces deployed in the region, stating:

    “I think what we have seen in the last few days is a very clear demonstration by the United States that it is interested in maintaining its involvement in the security of the region and we obviously welcome
    that.”

    Downer’s definitive declaration of support for the United States appeared to be the catalyst for arguably the most abysmal year in the history of
    Australia-China relations.

    A sense of impending doom hung over the
    Australia-China relationship as the Howard Government appeared to confirm
    its critics’ worst predictions.

    Downer’s unambiguous support for US
    involvement in the crisis was not recanted. The Taiwan Strait crisis was quickly followed in April by the discarding of the Development Import Finance Facility, invoking further Chinese protests. The Facility was a concessionary finance scheme for developing countries. China and a number of affected countries lodged official complaints with the Howard Government.

    In July 1996 the inaugural Asia-Pacific Cities Summit was held in Brisbane. Unfortunately, to the disdain of the Howard Government, the attendance of the
    Mayor of Taipei City, Chen Shui-ban (a leading pro-independence advocate within Taiwan’s Democratic Progressive Party), was protested by the Chinese
    Government.

    A storm erupted concerning speculation that the Howard Government would bar the entry of Chen. However, such an outcome did not eventuate, and the Mayors of Beijing and Shenzhen declined to attend in protest.

    The inaugural Australia–United States Ministerial Consultations were held in Sydney from 25–27 July 1996 and proved to be a landmark event. Gathering
    the respective Defence and Foreign Ministers of Australia and the United States, the meeting climaxed with the ‘Sydney Declaration’—a joint security declaration citing the ANZUS alliance’s relevance and purpose heading into the twenty-first
    century.

    It reinforced the Howard Government’s image as a stalwart of US interests in the region, describing the United States and Australia as ‘natural
    allies’.

    Recognising the security difficulties of the Asia-Pacific region, the Sydney statement declared:
    The ANZUS Treaty has long given shape and expression to the advancement of our common interests. During these challenging times
    in the strategic development of the region, both countries take this opportunity to reaffirm their mutual commitment to the obligations
    flowing from the Treaty.

    The Sydney Declaration went on to declare the goals of developing democracy, economic prosperity and strategic stability within the Asia-Pacific region. This
    vision was to be conducted within a bilateral framework strategy, with the specific objectives of preventing conflict, the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction, and arms build-ups.

    Although the Sydney Declaration did not
    refer explicitly to China, it was poorly received by Beijing.

    Following a similar US-Japan joint security statement in April 1996, the Sydney Declaration appears
    to have encouraged China to allege that a new US containment strategy was being forged in the region, in which Australia and Japan were two claws of a US crab.

    Setting the Vision amongst a Sea of Troubles: March–December 1996 Chinese protests notwithstanding, the context in which AUSMIN occurred needs to be understood. Only two months prior to AUSMIN, China had conducted
    a nuclear test on 8 June 1996. Caught in the middle of Australia’s diplomatic drive in the United Nations to establish a Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the
    Chinese nuclear test represented another Chinese snub to Australian diplomatic efforts.

    Having taken a lead role in advocating the Treaty, the Howard Government was cornered by its own policy position and had no choice but to
    strongly condemn the Chinese test.

    At the same time new revelations were coming to light. To its embarrassment the Howard Government admitted to conducting secret negotiations with Taiwan to sell uranium.

    After pushing for the creation of a Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, Australia’s negotiations with Taiwan appeared to contradict its
    anti-proliferation objectives.

    …Although the Howard Government’s foreign policy
    performed poorly on the public stage, in reality a steady foundation for expanded engagement with Asia and with China was being laid. Therefore, the story of 1996 is a complex milieu of competing foreign policy objectives.

    While Paul Kelly’s description of Howard as a ‘response agent’, subject to the winds of
    political fortune, is generally accurate, this investigation also observes a more complex individual and government at work.

    The Howard Government’s strategic depiction of China in 1996 is Janus-faced,
    conveying both optimism and adversity.

    Policy depictions of China in 1996 showed a country that represented an economic opportunity and a strategic challenge, rather than a strategic problem as portrayed in the 1996 crisis
    environment. The government adopted many of the outgoing Keating Government’s perspectives; Downer’s ‘fluid, complex and uncertain’ region
    statement was a repeat of Labor Defence Minister Robert Ray’s 1993 Strategic Review statement.

    The government was forced to confront the regional
    instability that China’s rise was causing, receiving a rude introduction to the
    sensitivities of Chinese foreign policy (Taiwan). Support for the Comprehensive
    Test Ban Treaty left Australia with no option but to make its views clear regarding Chinese actions; Downer declaring, ‘I condemn the nuclear test
    conducted today by China’…

    More here:
    ——————–
    And yet the Howard government learnt over time that kowtowing brought in more government revenue…and helped make us a richer nation…and it kept their coal masters very happy.

    Money makes the world go around.
    N’

  23. Yep, money makes the world go around…then add sex…and addictions…and gambling…

    Dark side of the mining boom

    Courtney Trenwith, Brisbane Times
    December 6, 2010

    Australia’s mining industry is propagating a dark underbelly of alcohol-fuelled violence, prostitution and mental health, the first study to examine social impacts of regional mining camps has revealed…

    The Queensland University of Technology report claims thousands of men flown in to work at mining sites in Queensland and Western Australia are “catastrophically” denigrating nearby towns and turning them into dangerous crime hot spots.

    Professor Carrington said workers had large disposable incomes with nothing much to do other than drink alcohol between back-to-back shifts.

    “What we discovered and what we heard was truly quite shocking,” she said.

    “It’s what we call organised drunkenness. The camps had courtesy buses that would arrive at the end of a shift and drive them to the pub.

    “They were surrounded by concrete, steel mesh to, I presume, keep the men contained.”

    Many camps had “wet messes” for drinking but no other recreational activities, she said. The best camps were adding libraries, gyms and the internet to provide alternatives.

    The problems were exacerbated by the heavy population of men, which fuelled violence, particularly over the scarce number of women. Local men also became involved in such fights.

    Professor Carrington said the few females left in one WA region were known as Plemberton Princesses, while sex workers were known to operate out of stretch limousines in car parks.

    “There was an enormous amount of fighting and rivalry for those women,” she said.

    Professor Carrington, who had feared speaking out on the issue, said police and health services were struggling to cope.

    She said Australian Bureau of Statistics population figures did not include non-residents, which made it more difficult for governments to better allocate resources.

    However, she criticised the industry and governments for turning a blind eye to the problem.

    WA mining executives were the worst, she said, because they passed responsibility to subcontractors…

    more here:

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/dark-side-of-the-mining-boom-20101206-18mb3.html

    Another good reason we need a decent super profit’s mining tax…to ensure we don’t have to rely purely on just a few sectors for jobs…and all the crap that comes w/ them.

    Still, at least China’s gettin’ its coal…RIGHT.

    N’

  24. Gerry Harvey is really pissed today:

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/harvey-norman-plans-to-match-myers-internet-move-20101206-18mbf.html?from=smh_sb

    So he should be…Rupert has more than him:

    RANK NAME COMPANY VALUE OF SHARES – $m
    1 Rupert Murdoch News Corporation 5960.04
    2 Andrew Forrest Fortescue Metals Group 4786.32
    3 James Packer Crown, Consolidated Media Holdings 3404.10
    4 Frank Lowy Westfield Group 2162.36
    5 Alan Wilson Reece Corporation 1797.23
    6 Kerr Neilson Platinum Asset Management 1789.83
    7 Gerry Harvey Harvey Norman 1227.81
    8 Tony Poli Aquila Resources 864.7
    9 John Grill WorleyParsons 850.8
    10 Kerry Stokes Seven Network 736.0

    http://www.brw.com.au/p/sections/opinion/brw_executive_rich_TFYzXZG55JB1rIKkkcMEHJ

    Lives of the rich & infamous…corporate aristocrats have it tuff.

    N’

  25. I received this disgusting (bulk) email today with the title Gillard the Goose.

    Received this info from mate who drives the pilot boat in Weipa

    Three hundred boat people have been housed at RAAF Sherger Air Base in Weipa.

    All are being accepted into Australia. All men.
    All receive the pension same as our pensioners. All get the same amount again for hardship payment.
    Equals twice what our pensioners get. All receive fifty dollars a day for spending money.
    Security staff employed to watch them. Chefs employed to feed them.
    One quarter of a tonne of chicken a day alone is cooked.
    They won’t pick up their own rubbish.
    There was a massive dispute because they didn’t like the radio station.
    Another dispute because batteries were flat for the Nintendo games.
    Tents set up for mosque prayers had to be air conditioned The Bores/Wells set up to run RAAF Sherger adequately are now dry because taps are left running all day long.
    Sewerage systems now blocked with condoms (???) supplied to them [ all men…..remember] Dept of Immigration & Citizenship (DIAC) wants Dept of Defence to pay all the bills so they can hide the costs from the public by allowing three hundred poofters into the country.

    Australia needs to know.

    Congratulations Gillard you fool.

    What Australia really needs to know is that this is a load of crap. For a start, these people don’t get the pension etc because they are not Australian citizens. Message to the rednecks: only Australians can collect welfare payments from the Australian Government.

    I’ll be responding to this email, but it ‘d be best if I wait for my disgust to ease off a bit. I will be sending it to all the recipients and not just the original sender.

  26. Next year will seem like an election year. In my opinion the media in this country will do their best to see that one is called.

    I agree Migs. They’ll go after Gillard the way they did Rudd (startin’ full-bore in late 09…after Copenhagen)…they may even start earlier than January w/ Gillard.

    As for this chainmail letter ya mention…titled ‘Gillard the Goose’…remember this from June?:

    This morning I received an email from a fellow administrator of this blog that alerted me to a chainmail that had been sent to him from a family member.

    It seems that our politics has gone into the sewers in order to influence YOUR VOTE…it seems that our politics is now politics American Republican style.

    Apparently the email subject is titled:

    Subject: One Journalist’s tirade ! Your taxes at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Woeful Rudd an inept PM

    It seems that a scathing post written by Andrew Bolt, another puppet of the Murdoch empire, originally written for the Herald Sun has been making its way into Australian’s Inboxes.

    More here:

    Sewer Politics:The Assassination Of Our PM’s Reputation

    https://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/sewer-politicsthe-assassination-of-our-pms-reputation/

    Cheers
    N’

  27. I wouldn’t wait, Migs. Let them have both barrels, the ignorant sods. This stuff really gives me the tomtits because whoever sends this crap around knows that it’s completely untrue.

    Aside from expressing our disgust when we get this sort of stuff, I don’t know what else can be done. Most of the people to whom it’s forwarded want to believe it, although they must know without doubt that it’s complete lies.

    the other thing I’ve noticed about it as well is that it’s all purpose; I’ve had exactly the same load of bollocks sent to me from o/s; they just change the name of the country.

  28. Hi Migs – I received the following from a close relative a couple of weeks ago, and like you intend to, I “replied to all” to set them straight:

    LET’S SEE IF I GOT THIS RIGHT!!!

    IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER
    ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.

    IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER
    ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.

    IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER
    ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.

    IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER
    ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.

    IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER
    ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.

    IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER
    ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.

    IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY
    YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

    IF YOU CROSS THE AUSTRALIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET ?
    A JOB, A DRIVERS LICENSE,
    SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, WELFARE,
    FOOD STAMPS, CREDIT CARDS,
    SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
    FREE EDUCATION, FREE HEALTH CARE,
    A LOBBYIST IN CANBERRA BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
    THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU
    PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
    AND, IN MANY INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE.

    I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD A FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION !!!
    PLEASE KEEP THIS GOING……FORWARD TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS & FAMILY

    As jane notes, this is just a re-badged redneck rant from the US – I was sad about the source though – I really thought the fellow had more nous than to fall for such obvious garbage 😦 Hopefully I’m still invited to his daughter’s wedding…

  29. If anyone’s interested, this was my response:

    Sorry – you got it wrong:

    Those coming by boat are NOT crossing the border illegally. The vessels they travel on are Suspected Illegal Entry Vessels (SIEV) and the people smugglers are acting illegally, but those claiming asylum are acting fully within Australian and International law under the UNHCR Convention and Protocol r e l at i n g t o t h e
    Status of Refugees.

    IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.
    Are you advocating that Australia should treat asylum seekers in this manner?

    ***********************************************************
    Now let’s see how many you’ve got completely wrong here:

    IF YOU CROSS THE AUSTRALIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET ?
    As pointed out earlier, Asylum seekers are not crossing the border illegally.

    A JOB
    False: Only once a Protection Visa is issued can an asylum seeker (who is then a refugee) seek work, the same way as anyone else seeks work.

    A DRIVERS LICENSE
    Really?? Who is stupid enough to believe this one? A driver’s license is issued to Refugees in the same manner as to any other permanent resident of Australia.

    SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
    What’s that? Are we living in the USA all of a sudden? AUSTRALIA DOESN’T HAVE A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD!!

    WELFARE
    Limited assistance is available to Asylum seekers:
    Myth: Asylum seekers can receive Centrelink payments.
    Fact: Asylum seekers are not entitled to the same forms of financial support as citizens or permanent residents. The Asylum Seeker Assistance (ASA) Scheme provides assistance to eligible asylum seekers who are in the process of having their refugee status determined. The ASA Scheme offers income support to cover basic living expenses, paid at 89 per cent of the Centrelink Special Benefit. This would equal approximately $405.84 per fortnight for a single asylum seeker – over $260 less than the single age pension.

    Myth: Illegal immigrants can receive Centrelink payments.
    Fact: In general, only Australian citizens and permanent residents can receive social security payments from Centrelink and illegal immigrants would certainly not be entitled to such support. It is also factually incorrect to refer to either refugees or asylum seekers as “illegal immigrants”. Recognised refugees in Australia by definition hold either a Refugee Visa or a Protection Visa, both of which entitle the holder to permanent residency. Asylum seekers – regardless of how they arrive in Australia – are permitted under Australian and international law to enter Australia for the purpose of seeking asylum, therefore asylum seekers have not broken any law and should not be referred to as illegal immigrants.

    (source: http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/current/myths.html)

    FOOD STAMPS
    Really?? Once again, who is ignorant enough to believe this rubbish? AUSTRALIA DOESN’T HAVE FOOD STAMPS!!

    CREDIT CARDS
    Now you’re just getting ridiculous – Are there educated people naïvé enough to accept such rot as fact??

    SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE
    Is this even worth responding to? It’s CRAP with a capital C…

    FREE EDUCATION
    Only the same education as any permanent resident (even a New Zealander  ) can get once a PV has been granted.

    FREE HEALTH CARE
    Once a PV is granted, yes. While still an asylum seeker, assistance with health care may be available to those eligible for the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme:
    To be eligible for ASAS, asylum seekers must be in financial hardship and:
    • have lodged a valid PV application more than six months ago, unless exempt from the six month wait period
    • not be in detention
    • hold a bridging or other visa
    • not be eligible for either Commonwealth or overseas government income support
    • not be a partner or sponsored fiancé of a permanent resident.
    Exemption criteria
    Exemptions to above criteria may be available to vulnerable applicants in financial hardship who are unable to meet their basic needs and who have no continuing and adequate support within the community. Applicants in this group may include:
    • unaccompanied minors, elderly persons or families with children under 18 years
    • persons unable to work as a result of a disability, illness, care responsibilities or the effects of torture and/or trauma
    • persons experiencing financial hardship resulting from a change in circumstances beyond their control since their last arrival in Australia.
    (source: http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/62assistance.htm)
    A LOBBYIST IN CANBERRA
    There are many lobbyists in Canberra trying to get the ear of politicians eg. There were 653 individual lobbyists on the lobbyist register on 30 June 2009. This doesn’t include industry groups like the NFF, Sporting Shooters Association of Australia, Minerals Council of Australia, Trade Unions, and the most active: Telstra. Is it any surprise that amongst this lot there may be groups lobbying on behalf of Asylum seekers and refugees?

    BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
    $Billions?? Really?? Now I can see you’re just making stuff up!

    THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
    Hmm – basic human right to protest – how EVIL!! How much of this type of flag waving “protest” have you actually witnessed in Australia? Tell the truth now! Did you know it is even legal in this country to don the Australian flag and protest about a religious group opening a school in your suburb or town?

    AND, IN MANY INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE
    To vote in any Federal or State government election in Australia, a person MUST BE AN AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN. How many Asylum seekers or newly arrived refugees do you reckon meet the requirements below?
    Australian Citizenship Act 2007 Residence Requirements
    To satisfy the residence requirements you must have:
    • 4 years lawful residence in Australia. This period must include 12 months as a permanent resident immediately before making an application for Australian citizenship
    • and
    • absences from Australia of no more than 12 months in total in the 4 years prior to application, including not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately prior to application.
    Lawful residence means residence in Australia on a temporary or permanent visa.
    (Source: https://www.ecom.immi.gov.au/citz/startIntervalCalc.do)
    I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD A FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION !!!
    It would appear that the group who wrote this propaganda doesn’t have a firm grasp on reality, let alone anything else.

    PLEASE KEEP THIS GOING……FORWARD TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS & FAMILY
    Please don’t perpetuate these LIES being spread in order to demonise some of the most vulnerable people on the planet. Walk a mile in their shoes. Read facts from reliable sources, not lies from dubious sources with an agenda to push (to what end is the real worry).

    Further reading:
    The Real Benefits For Asylum Seekers In Australia – David (Kochie) Koch
    http://www.kochie.com.au/the-real-benefits-for-asylum-seekers-in-australia

    MYTHS ABOUT REFUGEES AND ASYLUM SEEKERS – Refugee Council of Australia
    http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/current/myths.html

    Myths and facts about refugees and asylum seekers – Refugee Council of Australia
    http://www.ajustaustralia.com/info/mythsfacts.php

    Asylum seekers and refugees – Australian Human Rights Commission
    http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/immigration/asylum_seekers.html

    Face the Facts (2008) Questions and Answers about Asylum Seekers and Refugees – Australian Human Rights Commission
    http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimination/face_facts/chap3.html

    Fact Sheet 62 – Assistance for Asylum Seekers in Australia – Department of Immigration and citizenship
    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/62assistance.htm

    Asylum seekers mathematics – Crikey ***This one is really interesting, especially the graph showing Australia’s population increase sources for 2009***
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/07/08/crikey-says-mathematics/

    LET’S END THE IGNORANCE!

  30. Great blog, guys!
    I agree with Jane. Go hard, Migs! Show them that we are not all a bunch of gullible fools like they would like to believe. We have to get onto these vomit-inducing chain mails like flies onto the crap that they undoubtedly are. Then someone has to compose one about ‘Toxic’s’ crap. Which shouldn’t be too hard, tho it is hard to counter an appeal to bigotry and intolerance, I will admit.

  31. I wonder what Tony Abbott’s parents got from the generous Australian government when they brought him back from England?

  32. I also note that Britain, where Abbott was born, and where his heart is, doesn’t shoot anyone or put them in jail, etc., if they are an Asylum Seeker.

  33. Bacchus, That is just a piece of bizarre Illogical, Irrational ranting of a total fuckwit, and to pass that sort of shite on just doesn’t deserve the time wasted thinking about it. I am only talking about the concept of that thought process please do not misunderstand, BTW if you drop by the latest thread there is some Glen Livet going but you had better hurry Mig’s is on a mission

  34. You’d be surprised at how often Alan Jones reads out these emails and voices his disgust at the Labor Government. Hang on, perhaps you wouldn’t be surprised.

  35. Bacchus,
    Thank yoiu for taking the time to compose that rebuttal.
    Do you know what the sad realisation I had about it was? It’s too long for the rednecks and bigots to bother reading it. They have the attention span of gnats, which is why Abbott has become the consumate populist sloganeer that he is.
    Which is not to say that we should resile from attempting to counter the anti-AS shit smear, it would be remiss of us not to try. However, what I do think we need to do is try and find a way to condense it into a punchier attack. 🙂

  36. Migs,
    Character assassination is the conservative politician’s, and their lickspittle supporters in the media, stock in trade. However, if you dare to criticise them, then it’s becomes a case of publically demonstrating wounded pride, followed by vindictive vituperative responses on Facebook and Twitter, especially by the trolls and lickspittles on Facebook and Twitter who support them, and then Defo lawyers at 50 paces, in order to shut the critic down. That the ‘Progressive’ side of politics doesn’t have an army of supporters willing to do this also is where we fall down.

  37. “LET’S END THE IGNORANCE!”

    Top effort Bacchus, well done.

    Send it to Allan Jones & see if he reads it out.

    Tho, I doubt it suits his agenda.

    I hope yer mate got somethin’ out of it. I’ve also been surprised by the odd person I thought would know better but fell for this kind of reductionist claptrap.

    I guess that’s why people like Jones, Limbaugh & Beck makes so much money…too many listeners…fooled again.

    N’

  38. Foodstamps and welfare, eh? I bet they’re resented for even home grown, qualifying nationals back in the US of A.

    Sad to think of all these individuals consumed by jealousy and resentment.
    What miserable lives they must lead. But frightening too.

    Takes one back to Pauline Hanson and One Nation, doesn’t it? Such ugliness and ignorance. Explains Sarah Palin too.

    I bet Abbott, who’s clearly working on his Goebbels technique, would love to tap into that miserable energy even more blatantly. Thank God the economy and employment situation won’t let him take it that far. Think how dangerous he could be if things changed for the worse.

  39. You’d be surprised at how often Alan Jones reads out these emails…..

    .

    I'm just surprised he can read, Migs!

    Great rebuttal, Bacchus, but as FS, Migs and others have said, it's probably wasted on the types who believe all this shite! They are so stupid they don't know there's no such thing as food stamps in this country!

    Actually, it would be quite funny to ring the Parrot after he reads one of these things out, and say "You do realise there's no such things as food stamps in this country, don't you? And you do know you can't get a pension unless you're an Australian citizen, don't you? Anything else you're pig ignorant about?"

    I doubt you'd get the second question out-he'd have the connection cut in nano seconds!

    Nas', they want to be fooled.

    patricia, as you say it’s incredibly sad and frightening that these morons have such a vicious attitude towards people who are so vulnerable.

    That they’re so filled with envy that people who have lost everything are getting a helping hand speaks volumes about their mean spirited, vindictive and hate-filled existence.

    They are the Smuggles Set cheerleaders; spiteful, selfish and mean-spirited , carrying the Rodentochracy torch through the streets.

  40. “They are so stupid they don’t know there’s no such thing as food stamps in this country!”

    It fooled Migs.

    He was about to write off something after he had calmed down since he said this—–

    “I’ll be responding to this email, but it ‘d be best if I wait for my disgust to ease off a bit. I will be sending it to all the recipients and not just the original sender.”

    By the way i still think people who come by boats are queue jumpers. They know if they try and get here by normal channels they will never get one of those 13,500 places.

    Hence if they have money they pay a people smuggler to come here.

    It does seem unfair to those refugees that have no money.

  41. But Neil as pointed out to you many times many of those 13.500 queue places are taken by real queue jumpers who bribe and bully their way to the front. Also if those who get out of the camps or the places they flee from stay put they have a high chance of being persecuted at best and killed at worst.

    So it seems yet again you by inference advocate staying put when facing the gravest of perils to you and your family’s wellbeing. It seems you don’t do everything in your power to protect them and make the most arduous of journeys to save yourself and your love ones, you just take whatever your persecutors dish out comforted by the thought that at least you didn’t jump a queue that really doesn’t exist, as you watch many of you fellow asylum seekers in the camps bribe and beat their way to the processing tents.

  42. “they want to be fooled.”

    jane, the couple of people I was referrin’ to are family members who got this BS stuff about Muslims durin’ the Iraq War. They shoulda known better…but I recalled they went thru the “blitz” in England durin’ the war as kids…and the chainmail made use of this image to stir up their fear & trauma. It was nasty propaganda.

    They’ve woken up to it since…that was back in 2006/7.

    But I agree that SOME want to be fooled.

    Especially xenophobes & cheaparses & white supremacists. And some Christian fundies.

    N’

  43. Let me guess? John Howard.

    They were always refugees until the 2001 election was called. The 221 boats that arrived under his watch were full of refugees. Number 222, by the way, had something to do with the Tampa.

    Boat number 222 was full of queue jumpers. Every boat since has been full of queue jumpers.

    John Howard created the imaginary queue.

  44. “you just take whatever your persecutors dish out comforted by the thought that at least you didn’t jump a queue that really doesn’t exist,”

    Listen mate if they have $10,000 to pay a people smuggler for a trip on a boat, they could survive quite nicely in Indonesia where they are staying.

    “And who created the queue?”

    You have mentioned this before but it usually goes in one ear and out the other with me. i cannot believe we allowed an unlimited amount of refugees in the country before JH.

    Anyway I do believe we should be taking more refugees (~40K) and less skilled immigrants

  45. Why wasn’t Abbott on the 7.30 Report? Did he whimp out? Odd that O’Brien said he ‘invited’ Turnbull who after Abbott is hardly the most senior shadow minister. Surely it should have been Bishop, Robb or Hockey.

    Can’t say I was impressed by Turnbull who’s obviously picked up a few tips from Abbott on how to turn almost every issue round to an attack on Labor rather than answering the question,

  46. Neil, I am still waiting to hear what Mr. Howard done and what Mr. Abbott’s agenda is. We are all well aware of what you think of former PM Rudd and PM Gillard. What I would like to hear is why believe, not what you believe. I would love to know why you think Mr. Abbott and Mr. Howard are much better. I would love a list of their achievements noting numbers and facts, not unfounded allegations.

    As for the refugees, the same numbers are entering this country under this government as under the previous government.

    Neil, please tell me why you find the large number coming from Africa with few skills OK. (I personally see nothing wrong with this, but feel that many of the boat people will probably fit into this country easier.)

    Neil instead of going over the same boring old ground, why do not you fill us in with what Mr. Howard done differently. Let us know how many of the boat people during his time did not reach Australia. Please let us know how much his system costed.

    The refugees will stop coming when their own countries settled down and not before. This happened to our first boat people from Vietnam.

    Neil do you know if the refugees stranded in Indonesia are allow to live in or be a part of the community or are they kept in camps or detention.

    Many countries these people come through do not allow the refugees to earn a living or educate their children. Would you be happy if your children or grandchildren were not allowed to go to school for years. Would you not take any risk to get them to a place where they can have some chance of a future?

    Many of the boat people have been stranded in Indonesia for five or more years. I am sure that if they could settle into some kind of reasonable life, they would not be risking everything, including the lives of the children to get here.

  47. Why is no one rushing to comment on Malcolm Turnbull being invited by O’Brien on to the 7.30 Report as balance to Julia Gillard? Did I miss something earlier in the news about Tony Abbott being run over by a bus? If he was invited and declined surely we should be told.

  48. I like this clear and precise explanation of climate change alternatives from Barry Jones.

    I have proposed my own variant of ”Pascal’s wager” to examine the options for climate change:

    ■ If we take action on climate change and disaster is averted, there will be massive avoidance of human suffering.

    ■ If we take action and the climate change problem abates for other reasons, little is lost and we benefit from a cleaner environment.

    ■ If we fail to act and disaster results, then massive suffering will have been aggravated by stupidity.

    ■ If we do not take action and there is no disaster, the outcome will be due to luck alone, like an idiot winning the lottery.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/doing-nothing-on-climate-is-a-fools-wager-20101206-18msy.html

  49. “Why is no one rushing to comment on Malcolm Turnbull being invited by O’Brien on to the 7.30 Report as balance to Julia Gillard?”

    It certainly was odd Patricia. Where was Abbott? What a chickensh*t he can be.

    Yea. Turnbull is pretty adept at avoidin’ some uncomfortable questions and shiftin’ the topic…just like many a politician.

    However, I’d much rather have him as Liberal leader than Abbott. I think a Turnbull-led government would be more measured, more socially moderate, less inclined to go down that over-the-top w/ religion way…

    and he knows how to be frugal w/ money. But I don’t think he’d be a total bastard when it comes to public services like I reckon Abbott would be.

    His views on climate change are saner too.

    N’

  50. Nasking,
    I simply hope that no Liberal becomes PM in the near future, and especially Malcolm Turnbull due to the scurrilous and underhanded way he tried to bring down Kevin Rudd, absed upon a massive lie perpetrated by him and the unctuous Godwin Gretch. That sort of person is never going to be PM material in my book. Not that Tony Abbott is much better, mind you, considering the way he ruthlessly stuck the political shiv into Pauline Hanson.
    Pure of heart they are not, nor will ever be.

  51. Gee, you guys, you really can’t see the woods for the trees can you about the MT interview compared with a TA interview on the 7.30 Report. Malcolm was merely the warm-up act for Abbott, who will, I predict, be the ultimate interview at the end of the week. Such is the level of O’Brien’s sucking up to the Coalition at the end of his career. He didn’t survive and prosper during Howard’s reign for nothing.

  52. It is very revealing in this week WikiLeaks that political wisdom here and the USA appear to be saying that people who receive leaks as well as those who make the leak, have committed an illegal act. That would mean that any party that receives leaks from any department should be charged.

    I still do not know why there was no outcry against any charges being laid against Mr. Godwin Grech was not made. I know that the excuse was that he was not well and it was likely that he would not have been convicted. In this case, I believe that decision should have been left to the court to decide. I also believe that the Opposition at the time left them open to be accused of conspiracy to defraud the public with a false document.

    It was no secret at the time that Mr. Grech had been leaking to the Opposition for years. By not charging Mr. Grech, we will never know the full story of what occurred and what part the Opposition played in the fraudulent incident. What we do know is that the Opposition took advantage of a man who at the very least was vulnerable if not ill. What I am trying to say is that Mr. Turnbull and co should be treated the same as Mr. Assange.

  53. CU & Feral,
    I’ve always had the suspicion that Turnbull was set-up by Howard, Abbott & co. in regard to the Grech affair.

    It would be useful to know more details.

    And Feral, yes I would much prefer to have an ALP government…but that doesn’t prevent me from thinkin’ of the future…the ALP won’t be in forever…bein’ a democracy.

    I’m just not comfortable w/ the fanatical side of Abbott…demonstrated by his agro approach in parliament sometimes…his over-the-top fitness regime for someone bein’ paid to focus on political policies…and some things revealed in his past.

    I know I don’t make it a habit to visit the likes of George Pell. And I don’t know of many politicians who do.

    N’

  54. Nas’, to me the most dangerous thing about Abbott is his egotism..that his way is the only way.

    This is why he was unable to compromise to win over the indies, this is why the only thing he knows is how to attack. This is why he thinks that he can say ‘whatever’ about policies without having studied the issues. This is why he could call Bernie Banton ‘not pure of heart’ because this is what he believes himself to be.

  55. Nas,
    Meetings between Godwin Grech and Malcolm were set up by Lucy Turnbull in her office in Elizabeth Bay. Seems a bit of a stretch to say that the mesmerisers in the Howard/Abbott camp co-opted her unknowingly as well.
    Anyway, if someone wants to be PM they should be able to show the integrity to stand up against such entreaties as Grech made to Turnbull, and be alive to the potential of traps being set for them to fall into. Turnbull displays no such level of judgement.

  56. Excellent piece by Ad astra @ The Political Sword:

    What does Tony Abbott stand for?

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/

    Abbott realized that what he was saying did not have to be consistent or even true. He could say whatever he liked, make it up if necessary, and get away with it so long as a compliant media allowed him.

    Indeed.

    N’

  57. Feral, we’re in lockstep on Turnbull. No political nous, no political judgment, extraordinary arrogance and a refusal to accept responsibility for his own actions. As dangerous, if not more so, than Smuggles.

    CU, Grech didn’t leak, he concocted a false story about government corruption and fed it to Turnbull who swallowed it whole. No checks, no reticence straight in with the hobnailed boots, calling for Rudd’s and Swan’s heads.

    And all this after Martin Hamilton-Smith’s LIEberal leadership in SA was mortally wounded in similar circumstances a scant six months earlier.

    Then got snotty because he was caught out, refused to apologise to either Rudd or Swan and tried to claim he was the real victim.

    That was the cause of his demise as leader of the LIEberals, not Smuggles’ treachery. He shot himself in the foot and Smuggles, ever the opportunistic Rodent-heir slug that he is, snatched the leadership with the unwitting assistance of Unca Joe.

    If Hockey hadn’t run for the leadership (on whose advice, we all wonder) Smuggles would still be lurking on church gutters.

    I’m not sorry he was deposed, but I am sorry it was before the ETS legislation was passed.

    Oh well. ancient history now and in fact I think we’ve got a pretty good deal having the three indies putting in their two bob’s worth.

  58. jane & Feral, we’ll agree to disagree. You do make some convincin’ points tho.

    Furthermore, certainly Turnbull’s connections to Goldman Sachs are worryin’…

    and his conduct durin’ the Grech Affair, as you appropriately point out…

    but I worry far more about Tony Abbott.

    As I wrote on The Political Sword:

    I’m convinced that Tony Abbott believes he has been CHOSEN by GOD to be the leader of this great country. There is somethin’ so FANATICAL about the way he pursues power. And his over-the-top fitness regime.

    I think Abbott is another, just like Bush, who will allow the donating corporations & influential corporate aristocrats & dynasties to run roughshod over our democracy…or what’s left of it.

    I do not believe him when he states that “WorkChoices” is dead & buried. His eyes & tight jaw tell different. As does his allegiance to John Howard & some of the mining & media barons. As does their habit of poppin’ up to come to his rescue each time his popularity looks shakier.

    I do not trust leaders who have too much GOD in their lives…not during volatile times…where religious wars are bein’ conducted…who use religious references either consciously or sub-consciously just about everytime they open their mouths. Recently Abbott commented on Insiders that “The Labor party has lost its soul”.

    I wouldn’t blink if this came from many other leaders…but this man? Worrying.

    Bush was just as religious. He took America off the cliff…and allies w/ him.

    Mr. Gospel just doesn’t sit right w/ me. And no matter how often he changes his tone, mannerisms, policies, smiles, jokes…I can’t get beyond seein’ a mean-spirited, fanatical opportunist…driven by things we can’t even imagine. Nor hear.
    ——————
    Cheers

    Democracy works best w/ discussion and debate. Thank goodness for the blogs eh?

    N’

  59. Neil: “You have mentioned this before but it usually goes in one ear and out the other with me”

    This says it all. We present Neil with facts and he choses not to listen. No real point in trying anymore with him.

  60. I believe there is a difference between leakers and whistle blowers. Leakers leak information for political advantage to generally a political party. Whistler blowers attempt to get out information to correct what they consider a wrong. It is like comparing chalk and cheese. Grech and other like him aim is to hurt the party in power. Whistler blowers are generally public servants such as a nurse who wants to expose corruption or cover-ups. I would say that Mr. Assange belongs in the whistler blower camp, but I hope he starts releasing cables that involve the Opposition soon. Jane I know that Mr. Grech did not leak the last story, but he did acknowledge that he had been leaking to the Opposition for some time. I think Mr. Abbott might have had more exciting things to do in Tasmania and a chance to show off his swimmers once again than to appear on TV.

  61. Min, I find so many in the mainstream media these days are sadly contributin’ to xenophobia, pushin’ Coalition talkin’ points…and in turn, usin’ both boat arrivals & Kevin Rudd as punchin’ bags.

    I noticed they jumped on Rudd because he used “mate” on a morning show. Implyin’ he was ANGRY again.

    I thought him pretty calm. I’d like to see how some of them would deal w/ front page bash stories day in & day out.

    N’

  62. Nas’ @2.32pm, I appreciate what you’re saying, but I think we know absolutely what we’ve got in Smuggles. We know he’s untrustworthy, an inveterate, self-confessed, compulsive liar, a religious fanatic and a nasty piece of work.

    Turnbull otoh is a glib narcissistic dissembler, with no political nous, but it’s very hard to pin down just what he stands for. I know I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him as the saying goes.

    I’d like to see how some of them would deal w/ front page bash stories day in & day out.

    Unfortunately, Nas’ until we can wrench control of the msm from Rupert’s cold, manipulative hands I don’t reckon that’ll happen any time soon!

  63. Nas’ I thought it a particularly odd thing to say about a British man…that he didn’t arrive by boat.

    You can see the tactics..Rudd has become a very big asset to the Gillard government (eg the interview with Clinton) and so the MSM are doing their best to bring him down..yet again.

  64. Jane, the problem is that this morning the worse offender was our Virginia on ABC 2. She spent most of the show putting the emphassis on what was said about Mr, Rudd. She seemed to be giving the impression that his party would not let him last long. I perused channells nine, seven and ten. They mentioned Mr. Rudd but did not enter into this territory. For once the MSM appeared to be fairer than they usually are.

  65. Jane, I tend to agree with you about T’bull. His moral fibre went out the window once he agreed to a front seat in a potential Abbott government.

    That’s one of the reasons that I hope and pray the NBN gets through..then T’bull will be without any sort of meaningful job. Perhaps Abbott planned it that way.

  66. jane & Min…at least Turnbull stood up to Packer & a few corporates over the years.

    It does seem Min like his moral fibre went out the window…but how does one have influence these days if they are sittin’ on the backbench twiddlin’ their thumbs?

    He still gets on shows and talks about climate change.

    Anyway, probably won’t matter. I can’t see Gillard’s government foldin’ anytime soon.

    A few leaks shouldn’t bother them. Ya gotta be made of HARD STUFF in this game.

    Besides, they (Labor) could always leak stuff about Downer, Howard, Bush if they felt so inclined.

    What’s the hesitation I wonder? Surely they have heaps on that lot.

    Play HARD I reckon. Use the media. Don’t let them USE YOU.

    OFFENSE OFFENSE OFFENSE

    (BTW, agree CU…Virginia Trioli was far too animated over bashin’ Rudd this morn…and she luvs her Murdoch papers).

    N’

  67. Nas’, to me the thing is that Turnbull was going to quit politics after getting rolled, mostly due to his climate change stance. I admired him for doing so at the time because after all how could he reconcile his supposed strong beliefs on this issue with service under Abbott.

    To me he sold his soul to the devil. Perhaps he thinks that he can eventually roll Abbott and introduce more forward looking policies, however as Abbott has friends in high places aka the media I can’t see this happening any time in the near future.

    No I cannot see the Gillard government going any time soon either and especially given that the indies have every intention of making it succeed due to being given a once in a lifetime opportunity to put forward their own agendas.

  68. CU, I think Trioli is a Murdochracy troll in what used to be the ABC. I’m sure she’s hoping to be slurped into the Fox network.

    AAMOF, I’ve given up watching ABC2 Breakfast News for a couple of reasons; 1) Trioli infuriates me, 2) I infuriate my husband when I start shouting at the tv! LOL!

    Perhaps Abbott planned it that way.

    I’m not sure that Smuggles has what it takes for such a Machiavellian plan, Min, but you and I know who does.

    Besides, they (Labor) could always leak stuff about Downer, Howard, Bush if they felt so inclined.

    What’s the hesitation I wonder? Surely they have heaps on that lot.

    Dunno, Nas’. It sure would have been very satisfying if Rudd had delved into AWB, WMDs and the Habib and Haneef affairs for starters. I wouldn’t mind betting the excavators would still be working round the clock on that little lot!

    Perhaps it’s as someone (ME, perhaps) suggested, that there’s a “gentleman’s” agreement not to dig up each other’s dirty secrets.

  69. “It sure would have been very satisfying if Rudd had delved into AWB, WMDs and the Habib and Haneef affairs for starters.”

    For once i agree with something you said.

    And you know what they would have found?? They would have found nothing.

    hang on that is not correct. What they would have found are that those who made the accusations were wrong and are not capable of recognising the truth.

    It is funny. Deceitful human beings calling other human beings liars.

  70. Mate you lot would not recognise the truth if you saw it walking down the street.

    You lot still believe it was the MSM that got rid of Rudd.

    It is slowly coming out that he was an egomanical control freak. Totally unsuited to anywhere in Public Office and his own party could not stand to work with him any more. He obviously threatened to do damage to the ALP by continuing to leak unless he was given Foreign Affairs

    And yet in 2007 in your great wisdom, you voted for this immoral little turd.

  71. Yer one narrow individual Neil.

    W/out the quick thinkin’ & actions of Rudd & others plenty of Aussies would be out of work now…or would be workin’ in exploited or far more exploited situations.

    A number of businesses woulda gone bankrupt.

    Plenty would’ve foreclosed…bein’ unable to afford their mortgages on low wages or due to not havin’ a job.

    The moneys his government shoved into public health & hospitals saved lives…eased sufferin’.

    The funds & initiatives provided to schools lifted morale. Did more for the public schools than anythin’ done in a good long time.

    Yer pathetic Neil. Sefish & myopic as. But then, I expect little more from the supporters of Howard/Abbott.

    N’

  72. It is slowly coming out that he was an egomanical control freak.

    Where’s this coming out Neil, in your imagination maybe. Look at just which US diplomat made the allegations and the way he phrased what was supposed to be a classified report, yet it had language of inferences and supposed insider knowledge with not one detailed incidence, date, time or names.

    Then the current US ambassador, who often takes walks with Rudd, said Rudd is a good friend. Also remember Hockey used to be close friends with Rudd until the radical right of the party got to Hockey and he sold his soul.

    Finally Hillary Clinton came out fully backing Rudd and praising him.

    But you ignore all that Neil whilst saying everyone else doesn’t recognise the truth. What you believe is the truth in your fantasy land is not really the truth Neil, just another wingnut distortion of reality.

  73. Just for Neil:

    From tonite’s 7:30 Report Transcript

    KURT CAMPBELL, US ASST SECRETARY OF STATE, ASIA-PACIFIC:

    …And to be perfectly blunt, I’ve worked with a lot of people over many, many years and I’ve really focused on Asia for most of my career. Few people have made such an impression, not only on sort of the foreign policy national security imperatives of a country like Kevin Rudd has done in Australia, but he has an enormous respectful following in the United States and throughout Asia. So I think these are just deeply, profoundly unfair and he’s just taken some very unfair shots and I think it’s important for both friends and admirers to stand up and speak out, and that’s what I’m doing here tonight.

    KERRY O’BRIEN: But does that mean that your own embassy in Canberra is out of step with the sentiment at the State Department and the White House level?

    KURT CAMPBELL: Well, look, you know, some of these cables come from a previous administration. I don’t know all the context…

    All I can tell you is that in meetings talking about Asian architectural issues, about China, about how to think about security challenges of the 21st Century and climate change, in meetings with President Obama, with Secretary Clinton, with Secretary Gates, no leader I’ve encountered has the respect and level of when he speaks people listen, as Kevin Rudd has had in the American administration. And I say that with no bias. I’ve seen very clearly how much he punches above his weight and frankly how much Australia punches above its weight in our diplomatic undertakings.

    More here:

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2010/s3088477.htm

    Put that in yer pipe & smoke it Neil. 🙂

    N’

  74. “W/out the quick thinkin’ & actions of Rudd & others plenty of Aussies would be out of work now”

    Really?? I do not think anyone in the ALP has the slightest idea how to create a job. The people who reduced unemployment from 8% to 4% do.

    All the ALP has done is transform a $20B budget surplus into a $40B deficit.

    This during the greatest mining boom in Australian history and our terms of trade unequalled for 60 years.

    And if Rudd was so great why did the ALP dump him?? He should be given a medal if what you say is true.

    He was dumped because he was a control freak who nobody wanted to work with.

  75. “And if Rudd was so great why did the ALP dump him?? He should be given a medal if what you say is true.”

    Because some were ambitious…some didn’t have the courage of their convictions…and were too worried about polls & urgings from mining companies…and motivated by a sick media that enjoyed torturin’ Rudd after Copenhagen & the insulation/BER beatup. Some wanted more input.

    Too many in the media are spendin’ a great deal of time tryin’ to justify their herd-like mentality when it came to bashin’ Rudd.

    Yes, he made mistakes…all leaders do in the initial stages…and under pressure of big events, like the GFC.

    And he was a maverick…made too many enemies…or wasn’t considered as yer typical Laborite…causin’ suspicion.

    But in the long run I blame the mainstream media for his downfall…it exaggerated his faults…perhaps he drove public servants too hard…somewhat arrogant (yes, Howard was such a humble man willin’ to step down when required)…perhaps he could’ve been more consultative…traits & approaches that the media lapped up as criticism from the Murdoch empire, insiders & the Coalition once they felt spurned…or in need to jump on the bandwagon…and that in turn gave impetus for the panicked & ambitious to do that which they shouldn’t have.

    And he was a QLDer…w/ a QLD Treasurer…seen as too parochial & risky I imagine for the big dealers down south.

    What’s done is done. But he’s a hero to me. And I know plenty of other QLDers who recognise the sh*t he gave about the people…the homeless.

    And I know public schools today that are grateful to Rudd like few before him.

    He wasn’t perfect. But I believe essentially he was driven by good. The rest is what we expect from many men in this suspicious, cynical, confused, competitive age.

    N’

  76. And if Howard was so great why did the voters dump him??

    But really Neil, you keep repeating the same lines with no new detail. Rudd – gone – we get it.

  77. “And if Howard was so great why did the voters dump him??”

    Nothing you ever say will ever make me understand the 2007 election results.

    We threw out a successful govt and replaced them with amateurs.

    Nasking- I cannot believe the crap you right. You would only have to spend one week working with Rudd before you came to see what others knew.

    I think you would last two days working under Rudd before you attempted to throw something at him.

  78. Nasking- I cannot believe the crap you right. You would only have to spend one week working with Rudd before you came to see what others knew.

    Neil, I’m probably more qualified that anyone on this site to make a comment about this. I worked for Howard for eight years and Rudd for three.

    Howard’s mob played the dirtiest politics this country has ever seen and by the time they were kicked out they were a complete rabble. They made the incoming Rudd Government look like complete professionals.

    In the eight years with Howard I lost count of the number of lies they fed the public. Do you want to know how many lies I’ve heard the Rudd/Gillard Governments tell? I’ll tell you anyway: NONE.

    Sadly, you’ll call me a liar because the truth doesn’t sit well with you. That’s your choice. I’m satisfied though that everybody else who reads my comment will consider it credible. You are not.

  79. “Do you want to know how many lies I’ve heard the Rudd/Gillard Governments tell? I’ll tell you anyway: NONE..”

    Wow that is amazing. The only govt in human history never to tell a lie.

  80. Well Neil I guess Rudd and Gillard felt they couldn’t possibly compete with the Rodentochracy for the sheer depth, skill and quantity of its brazen lies and obfuscations.

  81. Why is everyone allowing Neil to once again divert the thread by raising old arguments with nothing new to say. I am ignoring him until gives us some facts, not allegations of why Mr. Howard was a great PM.

    The USA is wasting time by pursuing Mr. Assange. It is futile to close the door after the horse has bolted. There is naught they can do to stop the files from being published. They need now to turn their efforts to managing the fall out and make plans for the future. They need to look at raising the standard of their own, diplomats and public servant reporting, They would be in less trouble now if the cables reporting innuendo and gossip were labelled as such when posted. There is no way any government can protect secret documents if they number in the millions as they do now. It would be better if only documents that really need to be secret are labelled as such. Fear of being embarrass does not warrant the top-secret stamp. Governments need to realise that it is not in their interest to make things secret where no need exists. In my opinion western government need to rebuild trust, so that the public feels they can rely on what they say. Democracy does not and cannot work unless there is total transparency and openness.

  82. So Mark Arbib and a couple of his cronies were the source of the ALP leaks and has been snitching on Rudd and ALP machinations to the US embassy for a few years now.

    Another in a long line of things Neil has gotten wrong as he said many times Rudd was the source of the ALP leaks.

    Wikileaks certainly is revealing much, but note how so far it’s only on progressive politics, so far there’s nothing on the Howard or Bush years.

  83. From Nasking’s link at 9.43pm

    Kurt Campbell:

    Well, look, you know, some of these cables come from a previous administration.

    Anyone with any ideas about what this might mean? Does this then mean that some of the cables came from the BUSH administration; to me Campbell’s statement seems to be suggesting this.

  84. KURT CAMPBELL: Well, look, you know, some of these cables come from a previous administration. I don’t know all the context…

    I can’t tell you how important that bit I highlighted is because in the Wikileaks information on what the previous administration said of Rudd there was no context at all.

    I’ve dealt with a lot of classified documents and information over two and half decades and though I have seen and heard briefings and read reports that were skimp on detail and vague in some areas they were always in context. If you know the information is classified and is intended for a particular purpose and group of recipients then it is in context otherwise it’s useless information and worthless being classified.

    That Wikileaks outing of the previous administration reports on Rudd were the worst reports of this nature I have ever seen. It was more akin to an Ackerman report than a classified briefing containing facts and information. The report was full of innuendo, suppositions and vagaries even using the new media meme of “insiders” said. No names, dates, times, circumstances or specifics anywhere just a fat lot of poorly put together surmises.

    If I’d ever given an intelligence brief or received one a fraction as bad as this it would have been rightly dismissed out of hand.

  85. Of course one of Bush’s henchmen, lickspittles and lapdogs in Oz, otherwise known as the US Ambassador at the time, would compose cables dissing on Rudd. The Lieberals were probably feeding them the meat of the cables as they had their bitch sessions down the local nosheries of Canberra, or at dinners behind the closed doors of the Embassy.
    Context, don’t forget the context.
    Anyway, I will just agree with myself from the Assange blog, and others here. Why is it that Assange has been able to release stuff from when Kim Beazley was Opposition Leader and Howard was in power, but none of that has been about the Howard government?
    It stinks to me, big time.

  86. I agree about the context of these leaks Mobius. There is none presented, just more rumour mongering and gossip for the mill.

    The fact is, these are private, confidential messages, where people bare their basest emotions, the same that happens in all interaction between people.

    There is nothing in any of these messages that are exposing any wrong doing by those involved, just business as usual, its just that we are getting to see the dark underbelly of what we all know goes on.

    And, these are supplied without any context, and interpreted by our media in any way they prefer. A little bit of info can be a dangerous thing.

    Take the Mark Abib release. Apparently, he is a mole working for the US? Well, just perhaps, he is mole planted by the government. They know that the US will want a mole, so they give them one, who will tell them what Labor want them to know. We just don’t know, all we know is this cherry picked piece of a conversation that we came into half way through.

    We only see one piece of the puzzle, and determinations are made from that. No context is applied, and no understanding of the underlying causes are presented. It is purely dirty laundry being aired in piecemeal fashion, which will not advance our knowledge of anything, but cause untold damage in the meantime. And, while locally it is nothing more than political point scoring, my fear is what happens when this escalates to a more global problem, where one nation takes offence to another nations private murmurings about them? Who will be to blame then?

    While what Assange is doing may not be illegal, I wonder how he would react if phone taps of his private conversations were splashed across the front pages of papers? Or a dump of all of his email conversations?

  87. A little off topic, but htis was far too hilarious to go past.

    After all of the articles the oo have published trying to tell us how good the opposition wireless plan is compared to fibre, they now print this.

    ‘In a scene set to play out in thousands of small towns across Australia, Brigalow will not be connected to the NBN fibre optic network, which will offer internet speeds of up to 100 megabits per second to 93 per cent of Australians. Instead, they will be offered a wireless internet service that is nine times slower at 12Mbps. Western Downs Mayor Ray Brown yesterday said the residents of 99 towns in Queensland’s southern farming and resources heartland were being “short-sheeted”.’

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/nbn-entrenching-rural-disconnect/story-fn59niix-1225967922112

    As long as it attacks the (Labor) government, don’t worry yourselves with maintaining a coherent argument, just argue, with whatever you have at hand, facts be damned.

  88. Sorry, Neil, I should have been more specific. In regards to lying I can only comment if it has related to my policy or program area and to my Minister. In all of the above, I have not detected any lies being told to the media or the public from the Labor Government.

  89. “Another in a long line of things Neil has gotten wrong as he said many times Rudd was the source of the ALP leaks.”

    So I said that Rudd leaked about himself to the US state department???

    Man you people are the experts in making stuff up. I have said that Rudd was the source of the damaging leaks during the last election and has stuff on Gillard that he will leak if not given the Foreign Affairs job.

    It is also funny watching leftoids blaming the media for the stuff written about Rudd. Apparently the embassy got its information about Rudd from the Murdoch press according to some leftoids.

  90. Neil of Sydney,
    ‘Leftoids’?
    I was villified from pillar to post when I coined the term ‘Rightoids’ on Jack the Insider’s blog a while ago. I was being disrespectful to the Disabled, disrespectful to the good men and true of the Right, yada, yada. However, it seems that when the Right see a cut-through, effective line coming at them from the Left, after all the huffing and puffing is through, they hop onto it hypocritically with gay abandon.
    Which is just bloody typical from your mangy lot. Not an original thought between you.

  91. Surely they must have some relating to the Coalition. is this the way they are being released or is the MSM being selective in what they print. Surely there must be one, congratulating Mr. Howard on being deputy sheriff. Some of Mr. Abib comments were made before he became a senator. It appears that many groups meet regularly with diplomats and to call him a mole is bordering on stupidity. There has been nothing I have read about Mr. Rudd, that could not be found in the MSM.

  92. Feral, Neil has tamed down a bit. For many years he used to call us ‘leftoid perverts’ across a number of blog sites, however I don’t think he has used the term here at the Café.

  93. Neil, you really are so predictable. You should work for the Murdoch media.

    I had a chuckle when I heard Peter Dutton blamin’ The Greens for the “supposed” pressure on the Treasury.

    I got to thinkin’ about The National party…I take it that they were so piss weak in the Coalition that they didn’t come up w/ many alternative policies that need costin’. So no pressure on the Treasury dep’t. 🙂

    I reckon it’s bloody good that the Greens & Indies are gettin’ diverse policies checked. And good on Gillard for respectin’ the Alliance.

    I imagine The Nationals oft kowtowed to Howard & that lot. “Yes sir, no sir…three bags full sir”.

    No wonder Bob Katter was scathin’ of The Nats.

    Shorten was spot on when he mentioned the demands put on Treasury too by one Coalition member’s proposal.

    That shouldn’t be forgotten.

    This is a government willin’ to provide opportunities in a democracy.

    Gillard’s government has been bashed by some media analysts & Coalition due to the resignation of the Murray-Darling Basin Authority fella…but let’s be honest here…

    it was the Coalition that instigated this report…the people spoke up about it…and Gillard listened. She’s decided to compromise & think about the communities too. WTF is wrong w/ that?

    I’m sick & tired of hearin’ from a Coalition that did stuff all on these issues (rivers/water…NBN…training/infrastructure…public health) and a media that give them far more voice & credit than they deserve…goin’ by their history.

    N’

  94. I have said that Rudd was the source of the damaging leaks during the last election and has stuff on Gillard that he will leak if not given the Foreign Affairs job.

    And I say the Rodent has sex with sheep. See how easy it is to say stuff without a shred of proof, Neil?

    I say Rudd was not the source of the so-called leaks. I say Turnbull was the source-after all he has form for spreading fabricated stories.

    I’m sick & tired of hearin’ from a Coalition that did stuff all on these issues (rivers/water…NBN…training/infrastructure…public health) and a media that give them far more voice & credit than they deserve…goin’ by their history.

    Hear! Hear! Nas’.

  95. The power broker Mark Arbib needs to step down. Hopefully he is getting a bit or Karma for being one of the guys who drove the dagger into Kevin Rudd.

    What goes around comes around.

    Have been so busy trying to comply with ASIC new rules and getting everything done before Christmas. It has been much more time consuming than I thought but hope all are well. I check in now and again to read the headlines.

    Hopefully 2011 will settle down but apparently new rules will start again in April.

  96. ‘Our Man In Canberra’=Mark Arbib 😉
    And, so what? Didn’t the Coalition have a snitch who wanted to get extra Brownie Points from Uncle Sam, when they were in power? I’d say they would have formed a queue at the door of the Embassy.
    Still waiting for some dirt on the Coalition…

  97. TomR,
    The Opposition are just fishing for a scalp to lead to a by-election which they are (over)confident they will win. They want to sleaze into power via the Back Door(hmmm, reminds me of a very infamous Xmas song, ‘Back Door Santa’ 🙂 )
    First it was Craig Thomson, from Dobell, up here on the Central Coast of NSW, who is supposed to have paid for prostitutes with the HSU Credit Card. Something which the Opposition appear to have forgotten was investigated by the AFP back in the Rudd days, and he was cleared of. Then, it was Rudd, as a result of being a ‘Control Freak’. Well, there goes over half of parliament then. Today, it’s Senator Arbib, who’s not even in the House, but what do they care? Even if they are a bunch of hypocrites for saying so, for, as I said above, how many of them did exactly the same thing when they were in government, and probably still do?

  98. Feral, I would like to know when in power what Downer said to the likes of John Negroponte…and visa-versa…

    March 3, 2005
    Negroponte’s Dark Past
    The case against Bush’s new intelligence czar
    By Robert Parry

    http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/1998/

    and to Condi Rice.

    Now, that would be interestin’.

    And how did he explain to the Yanks incompetently missin’ the nigh on 300 million dollar bribes by AWB to the Jordanian truckin’ co that went to Saddam’s regime?

    N’

  99. Feral, I’m not sure the release is anything specifically motivated against Labor, it just seems to me to be that they happened to be in poser while these particular messages were stolen. Call it bad luck.

    Having said that, I am reading that the SMH are getting them, and the others are simply going on what is written there. I haven’t seen if they are available on Wikileaks yet. That is kinda worrying, and flies in the face of what I thought wikileaks was trying to achieve.

    I don’t know if that is true or not, and don’t have the time to go looking.

  100. And in defense of Arbib…at least he was yappin’ to an ally. Not a spy for the Chinese or Russians.

    But I still have my concerns about it.

    As for this repeated lecturin’ to PM Julia Gillard by some in the media & Coalition re: her approach to the Assange case…I also feel she went off half-cocked like a typical conservative style leader concerned about national security…

    but…why does the media have to get so animated about it?

    And mebbe they should remember that it wasn’t her who got us into a disastrous fckn war…

    and if many of them had got off their sycophantic or fearful butts prior to the Iraq War we might not have.

    Some did…a few…I give them credit.

    N’

  101. “If Arbib is going, Brown will follow soon after”

    Rubbish. Bob Brown is the leader of an established & popular party. Of course he has to talk to foreign diplomats & others officials.

    He doesn’t govern his party in a vacuum.

    Abbott goes to talk to Tories in the UK & attends their bleedin’ borin’ as old toast conferences. That doesn’t make him a Brit spy.

    N’

  102. TomR,
    What I still can’t understand though, is how Wikileaks has got a hold of cables from when the Labor Party were in Opposition, yet nothing, up till now, about the Howard government?

  103. nas,
    I posit that there are no flies on Julia. She talked the ‘National Security’ talk when she thought it was the way to go, then as the media jumped on Assange’s bandwagon, instead of jumping on Assange, she dialled it back and sent out Kevvy to be the good bloke.
    Her ‘Prime Ministerial’ dress sense is getting better too. 🙂
    Though the brown satin top she had on the day she went all ‘That man is a threat to National Security’, needs to be binned methinks.

  104. Actually, now that I think about it, there ARE a heap of cables about the AWB fiasco, which occurred at the same time Beazley was Opposition Leader. I remember it because the Cole Royal Commission, which fit the AWB guys up and let the real scumbags get off scot free, brought out the information that Downer had heaps of cables sent to him, but, according to his evidence, he “didn’t read them”.
    Which, of course, is bullpucky.

  105. Hi FS

    I’m not sure I understand what you are talking about. Do you have a link or reference to something?

    I am trying to follow along with the releases, but am also attempting to feed and clothe the kids 🙂

  106. Feral & Tom, remember this? (excerpts):

    Under Australian legislation, all shipments to Iraq were banned unless the Foreign Minister (at the time, the Alexander Downer) was “satisfied that permitting the exportation will not infringe the international obligations of Australia”. The UN Enquiry did not comment on whether the Australian Government should have known about the actions of the AWB. Through the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Government knew that AWB had entered into an arrangement with Alia. The Cole Inquiry found in “secret evidence” that the ownership of Alia was known since 1998 in the departments of Foreign Affairs, Defence and Prime Minister and Cabinet, as indicated by an intelligence report from a “foreign agency”.

    (wikipedia)

    AND:

    Deceit by the truckload
    April 15, 2006

    It is the greatest international scam in Australia’s history. David Marr and Marian Wilkinson reveal the inside story on the wheat board kickbacks.

    Othman al-Absi, the company’s general manager, would tell the Cole inquiry: “I do not recollect ever being asked by anyone from AWB about who owned or controlled Alia, or whether it had connections with the Ministry of Transport. However, Alia’s ownership was public knowledge and was not hidden.” The records show the Baghdad ministry holding 49 per cent of the shares.

    According to a “distillation” of secret evidence to the Cole inquiry, this fact had been known for at least a year in Canberra. A 1998 report by a foreign intelligence agency had been circulated to the departments of Foreign Affairs, Defence and Prime Minister and Cabinet indicating “that Alia Corporation based in Jordan was part-owned by the Iraqi government and that it was involved in circumventing UN sanctions on behalf of the Iraqi government”…

    The Canadians were Australia’s only real rivals in the market because Saddam had black-banned American grain. Now the UN’s verdict put them in a bind and they turned on the Australians. In mid-January 2000, a Canadian diplomat told UN inspectors that according to the Iraqi Grain Board, AWB was already paying the trucking fees.

    A UN official, Felicity Johnston, immediately contacted the Australian mission at the UN to ask for “discreet, high-level inquiries” to be made into AWB. At this point, the whole trucking fee scam could have been stopped in its tracks. But it never happened. The to and fro of cables and meetings and phone calls that followed raise for the first time the big question in this story: was the Australian Government complicit or staggeringly incompetent?…

    On the ABC’s Four Corners, Johnston insisted she spoke to the diplomat Bronte Moules at the Australian mission specifically about “trucking fees”. Moules denies this but she kept no notes of their conversations; says she never asked what the suspect payments were for and never examined any of the many AWB contracts in her UN office. She confessed she couldn’t have understood their terms even if she had….

    …AWB got through without being quizzed about trucking fees by anyone. Unable to find anything in the paperwork about them, Johnston let the matter drop. She reproaches herself now but it seemed so unlikely to her back then. “That what I perceive to be an agency of [the Australian] Government would be deceptive and would be deliberately flouting the sanctions, and then avoiding telling the truth about the matter, was really incomprehensible.”

    The crisis had only the vaguest impact on Canberra. Alexander Downer remembers being told about the complaint but can’t recall reading any of the cables generated by the crisis, though they were distributed to his office.

    In these same weeks, more foreign intelligence about Alia reached both Downer’s department and the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet: “Alia received fees in Jordan for the discharge and inland transport within Iraq of goods purchased under the oil-for-food program … the fees, less a small commission, were paid into accounts accessible by Iraq in violation of sanctions. The amounts involved were very substantial.”…

    In November 2000, an AWB expedition to Baghdad led by Dominic Hogan was told by the new supremo of the grain board, Yousif Abdul Rahman, that a 10 per cent surcharge was now to be paid on all contracts under the oil-for-food program…

    The new scam was hardly secret. Foreign intelligence reports about it were circulating in Canberra by March 2001. That same month, the US and Britain tried and failed to persuade the UN to curtail the kickbacks. Riven by division, the enforcing 661 Committee never, in the words of Paul Volcker, “seriously considered the merits of these or any other proposals to redress the payment of kickbacks”.

    Bronte Moules reported these failed attempts in a cable distributed to the offices of the Prime Minister, the Minister for Trade and the Minister for Foreign Affairs. By October, P&O stevedores in the Persian Gulf was warning its customers of Iraq’s compulsory 10 per cent “after sales service” fee. P&O tipped off the US and British navies and posted the news on its website. If you were in the business of shipping to Iraq, you knew what was going on.

    But the Foreign Affairs Department kept on rubber-stamping AWB’s contracts on their way to the UN. Once approved over there, the department rubber-stamped export permits for every shipload of wheat leaving Australia for Umm Qasr. Department officials have told the Cole inquiry they regarded themselves as no more than a postbox in this process. They never checked the contracts, didn’t read them, would not have understood their terms and were unaware they even contained trucking clauses.

    “I took the view that AWB probably knew more about the way the oil-for-food program operated than I did,” testified Don Cuddihy of the Middle East branch. “They were very experienced users.”…

    Downer faced a key question when he appeared before the Cole inquiry: who told the bureaucrats they were only a postbox? Evidence before the inquiry showed that a much tougher system of scrutiny had operated under Labor. And no one from Drake-Brockman down could explain when and why it was decided that scrutiny of Australian contracts under oil-for-food would be left entirely to the UN.

    Downer explained that the change came about after a fresh UN resolution in 1996. “Under Security Council Resolution 986 the United Nations established an Office for the Iraq Program, and this office had the task, amongst other things, of vetting particular contracts.” In time, this would become the Government’s core defence.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/deceit-by-the-truckload/2006/04/14/1144521506851.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

    Hmmm…

    but it’s far more important that Rudd is a control freak.

    N’

  107. But this is a government that has “lost its way”. 🙂

    Swan applauds ‘stunning’ jobs data

    Colin Brinsden
    December 9, 2010

    More people have secured a full-time job in a calendar year than ever before, and there is still a month to go.

    Labour force data released on Thursday showed that 55,100 full-time jobs were created in November, more than double the employment forecast made by economists…

    Treasurer Wayne Swan described the jobs data, which included a drop in the unemployment rate to 5.2 per cent, as “stunning”.

    “The fact that there are 55,000 more Australians in work just prior to Christmas … I think is something all Australians can be very, very proud of,” Mr Swan told reporters in Brisbane.

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/swan-applauds-stunning-jobs-data-20101209-18r3w.html

    Good news. And the reserve bank needs to keep it’s hands off the interest rates’ lever…no knee-jerk responses.

    It’s gettin’ pretty tight for many of us w/ mortgages.

    N’

  108. “I had a chuckle when I heard Peter Dutton blamin’ The Greens for the “supposed” pressure on the Treasury.”

    Well Nasking do you think it funny if Treasury says the same thing???

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury-swamped-by-demands-ken-henry/story-fn59niix-1225967919278

    “In what attendees described as a downbeat and depressing speech, Dr Henry said Treasury was now at the beck and call of the independents and Greens, creating a huge strain on the capacity of the department.

    He did not complain about the policies of the Labor government or the opposition but is understood to have darkly joked to colleagues that Treasury did not have a big enough computer to cost the policies of the Greens.”

  109. “He did not complain about the policies of the Labor government or the opposition but is understood to have darkly joked to colleagues that Treasury did not have a big enough computer to cost the policies of the Greens.”

    Ahhh Wiki leakes has been busy.

    I wonder if they know(Wikileaks)If I am going to have my penile warts removed next month?

    Just askin.

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